Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - MAGA Jokes and Mega Outrage With Roy Wood Jr.

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

Van and Rachel react to Donald Trump’s Madison Square Garden rally (6:28) before comedian Roy Wood Jr. joins to dig into controversial jokes by Tony Hinchcliffe and the art of political comedy (19:42). Then, a breakdown of Lil Durk’s arrest on a murder-for-hire charge (49:43), and Shaq gives advice to Angel Reese on making the WNBA sexier (1:11:16). Plus, Dwyane Wade’s statue has a face that’s not his (1:23:22). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Roy Wood Jr. Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Her learning's on. Is Ivan Lansing Jr. And it's me, Rachel Lynn Lansing. Like, comment, subscribe on YouTube. Big video push happening here. Loving the video.

Loving video. Did you Halloween it this weekend? What did you do this weekend? I said a few things. Like what? I went to the World Series game one. Oh. Oh.

Really good time. What else did I do? I went to the Lakers game. Lakers versus Kings. Y'all here, you're in these streets. She's back. She's back. I mean, people said I was out in about before.

But now, there's nothing now? No. So are you a pigeon or a gerbil now? A little bit of both. No. Oh, a Perjal? Perjal? Oh, like Star Wars.

Donnie. Do you know what a Perjal is? Are you talking about the forgs? No. The disappointment. I don't know what a perjal is. I love what Donnie doesn't know what you're talking about. A perjal is a perjal,

Pergul and Star Wars is a hyperspace whale, a whale that can travel at the speed of light. Well, that's me. That's me. No, but, oh, I did, and then I went to Joy Taylor's party. Shout out to Joy. She threw a lovely Halloween party.

Enjoy it. Then I went to, I was just kind of like out about. And then I went to, I did a breast cancer walk, woke up, did that Sunday morning. And then that evening I went and supported Alzheimer's Association for an event that they had as well. What the fuck? It's a little bit of fun, charity at the same time.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a good weekend. I watched football and then I went and watched football with Simmons. Excruciating. Yeah. LSU lost, excruciating life. Yeah. because we were up and then they just came back

whooped it whooped it whooped that trick get a whoop that trick get a whip that trick get a whoop that trick get a whoop and then

of course the Cowboys and the Saints are both in this day I've completely given up yeah it's completely given up but so much news happening though are you into football this year I am I will say

that I haven't been as into Sunday as I am into Saturday just something always seems to be going on and I just don't catch it and I'm just, I'm really disappointed in the Cowboys so it just really makes it hard to rally. Of course I watch because I do fantasy. But not with the same joy.

Yeah. Are you asked, are you into it? You're into college more than pro, right? College is a great, it's a great crazy season of college but like pro not so much. You told me that you have more venom to the spew at Hoot Nanny. Well, I was out in these streets this weekend, so I ran into a lot of thought warriors. And several of them do not like Hoot Nanny.

Okay, tell me why. They said they didn't say specifically why. I think it speaks for itself. But specifically, it was, oh, love the podcast. Love You and Van. We got to let Hoot Nanny go. Okay. I don't think this is true.

I swear on Copper and Browning that that was said to. me this weekend. It really was. They were like, but we got to leave Hoot Nanyl and I was like, I'm trying to tell them. It doesn't. It doesn't. Let me tell you something. I'm here with you. It don't translate to me. So I can only imagine what the people who are watching and listening feel about a green plastic owl. Is the name Hoot Nanny Q? Absolutely. Got to give it to you on that one. That's where it ends. Donnie, your thoughts on who, Nanny? I'm a fan.

Damn it, Donnie. Damn it. We have a poll or something and get like some real response from the Thought Warriors because I'm a fan. Let's do a poll. Why? Why, Donnie?

Why? Well, first of all, I like birds and I always seem to be the smarter stereotypically of the birds. Is that real? Can I ask me, is that real or just something

that we've watched in cartoons? and stuff with the wise owls. Are owls really smart? They... Crows are smarter. Crows are pretty smart. I think that owls are, they have a studious look to them. That thing looks creepy. As does

Hootnanny. I think Hoot Nanny should be our mascot. Absolutely not. Because he's a studious aisle, it's higher learning. OVO. This is really what it stands down to. Yeah. No, no, no, no. OVO. See, but I'll tell you some, I think that the aisle community doesn't like that.

the owl community doesn't like that they've been made the mascot hoot nanny standing in the fray. Did he do you tell you that? Who nanny did tell me that. Donnie, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. You had other reasons as to why you like this thing. I like who nanny for a lot of us.

No, Donnie. And who nanny, the name. I feel like it's really good. Ben kind of knocked it out the park with who nanny. I mean, it fits. It fits the theme of higher learning. I'm a fan. What?

It's an inanimate object. Why does it fit the theme of? Well, first of all, Rachel, So I have to be honest with you, you don't have like very much of a lay to stand on in terms of this because of your Muppet situation, which is... Were people upset? Like, there's a lot of talk about maybe, because this is the deal. I have maybe too much childlike energy. I'm childish.

I get it. I'm childish. I don't know why. I just love it. I love it. I have childlike energy. No. But you're the adult in the room.

I am. You don't like the Muppets, okay? You don't like any types of whimsical fairy tale type movies. That is not true. That is not true. You don't like, and so who Nanny's not going to, and maybe you pull me to your side, I pull you to my side. Okay, fine.

I just, I looked up our Muppets creepy, and there's a whole Reddit. I mean, I'm sure there's some people that think that they're creepy, but it's preposterous. Anyway. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more, or visit trimfireradio.com. We have Roy Wood Jr. on the show today. You excited about that? I like him. I like him too. We're bringing Roy Wood on to talk about Trump's rally at Master Square Garden.

So let's get into it a little bit before Roy gets here. It's a week before election day. This was supposed to be Trump closing the deal. Everyone wants to close the deal. They want one sweeping moment before people head to the voter box, ballot box, voter box, whatever, before people head out to vote. Although there are many people already voting all over the place. This fucking backfired.

The rally at MSG had been compared to Nazi white supremacist rallies in the past, particularly one held by Adolf Hitler and his Nazi cronies back in the day. and it seems like, and I'll just be honest with you, that the Trump campaign kind of leaned into that. It was from what I've watched of it, and I've tried to watch as much as I can. It was mean-spirited. It was filled with insults

and not at all veiled fascist talking points. One Trump supporter called Harris the Antichrist. Grant Cardone claimed Harris has pip handlers. Sid Rosenberg called Hillary. re-clinton a sick son of a bitch, Democrats more broadly as Jew haters and low lives. Rudy Giuliani, the broke bastard that he is, he said that the Palestinian people are taught to kill at two years old.

Melani was there. A couple of other things happened. We're going to get to comedian Tony Hitchcliffe of Kill Tony Fame and some of the jokes that he made. We're going to talk about that a little bit with Roy Wood Jr. but it seems like this was a mean-spirited, anti-American, a blood of our nation, pep rally, and it seems to have backfired on Trump a little bit.

When you say anti-American, it depends how one defines what an American is. Very true. And, you know, I, like you, tried to watch as much as I could. I didn't morally because, mainly because I kept getting disgusted at what I was watching. But it's interesting when you say, it backfired because it didn't. There's a clip of ours that's going viral right now from comments that you were speaking towards to regarding Trump

and how he's viewed and how he can pretty much do anything and he gets away with it, right? And I'm really paraphrasing what you said because it was much, much better than that. But he can't. So nothing was surprising or something. shocking that I heard, even if it might have been jarring. But it's not going to change anything. I've seen a lot of people, and we kind of talked about this before, but I've seen a lot of people

say, don't focus on the person. Focus on the policy. Focus on the policy, not the person. But I don't know how you separate the two when I hear people say that, which clearly means that person's voting for Trump, right? I've seen a lot of it from white Christians saying, don't, we're not, because they want to defend their actions as to why they're voting for somebody who's so anti-Christ-like. They want to justify it so they say, well, no, we're voting on the policies because the policies reinforce our beliefs. Well, I don't understand how you can separate a person from a policy when that person, especially the second time around. That, that as a person and what they think is going to influence the policies that they're trying to implement.

Trump's, you know, in addition to make America great again, Trump's saying, now Trump will fix it. Trump will fix it. That's the motto. But when you watch that rally, it makes you wonder what Trump will fix it actually means because all that rally did was divide and hopefully, you know, to conquer. We're going to get into Tony later, but he, you know, when he said what he said and when he made his excuse or when he defended himself, he said he made fun of everybody. You know, he didn't make fun up? white people. You watch this whole set? I watched this whole set. I mean, he said, I think he made a Jewish joke.

Yeah, I watched this whole set. I didn't see either. I think that's important. Now, the reason why I asked us, I think that's important. I watched the whole thing. I watched this whole set, yeah. And I watched it specifically because he said, you guys aren't paying attention to,

you didn't listen to the whole thing. Cool, I'm going to watch the whole thing. He did not talk about white people. Everybody else got it except for white people. So that's what I go back to. It depends what type of American you're talking about. Because that rally is talking about a very specific American and to once again refer the clip that it's going viral.

And that America is to protect and guarantee the protection of whiteness. Okay. So we disagree here. I do think it backfired. Okay. I think it backfired because there is something that happens with Donald Trump every time we get back into the Donald Trump sphere. Or normalizing.

We're normalizing the Donald Trump. Sure. Let's forget about the evangelical Christians, right? They're no longer serious. They're their own political party. Okay. I'm not talking about Christianity as a whole. I'm talking about a very specific type and wing,

the evangelicals who no longer have their arms around Christ or their arms around the best parts of any religion. Today's evangelical Christian and the things that they reinforce in popular society and culture, those things and those people are antithetical to the best parts of any religion, which preaches tolerance, which preaches understanding.

Most religions preach pacifism, neighborliness. All of those things are the antithesis of what the evangelical Christians are right now. To me, it's a cult that's walking hand in hand with sake. All right. Said that, I meant that.

And if you're upset, take it up with your God. However, I do think at a time when people are starting to normalize the race, when we're saying it's this political wing and it's this political wing, it's this set of policies and it's this set of policies. It is important to see that there is a cultural imperative on one side of that. And sometimes, even though they're disgusting anti-trans ads running every fucking five minutes on the TV when you're watching your football. Yeah, it's big. Yeah.

Like, I do think that sometimes these are just two different political sides. I think that worms its way into people's psyche. And when we talk about Trump and we talk about Trumpism and MAGAism. Identity is at the core of it. And so to see them at this rally be assholes. Sure. Like literally be like assholes. These are the mean racist people from your community meetings, from your school, from your job. These are the asshole jerk. wasp dickheads. And I think it's important to ask people if they want to vote for that. Now, for the people inside of that cult probably doesn't matter.

But I think in terms of framing what it is that people are up against, I think that this was a gift from the MAGA crowd and from the Trump campaign in the waning hours of the campaign. So you think that, because I'm listening to backfire in the context of how it will determine to help people vote at the polls, right? We know that voting is already underway, early voting, and many people have voted. Do you think it backfired in the sense

that it will turn people away from voting for Trump? I don't know if you can... Because that's the only way that the backfire counts to me. I don't know if it'll turn people away, but I'm not really looking at the turn people away. I'm wondering if it gets people out.

Because I don't think that there are very many minds that get turned from being a part of MAGO world. But I'm wondering if there are people, people who the undecided voter that maybe exists or doesn't exist, I don't know how they could exist at this point. And I'm wondering whether or not those people who are just having a difficult time defining what this movement on the right really means if they see something like that and it doesn't

goose them a little bit to get up and maybe go vote. And we're talking about literally Rachel, and this is the thing that people, something sometimes don't remember or forget or whatever, don't understand. We're talking about hundreds, maybe thousands of people that are needed to flip the election in places. We're talking about 500 people. We're talking about 1,000 people. We're talking about something like this and whether or not it moves that many.

And I'm saying that whether or not this wins an election, who knows? but the fact that this is being perceived so poorly is good news. Wait and telling me this was coming off. Tell you what's coming off. What's going on up there, by the way? Just clipped up. You know what that? Leave that, leave that.

You know what you? You know that meme of that doll, Donnie, you know what I'm talking about? I know what you. Yeah. I say, hold on. You know that meme of that doll? That's how you know you had a good weekend. By the way, can I, can I, can I, can I,

tell you something real quick. I don't think I have a choice. You're reping Hoover right now. Hoover? Yeah, you're reping Hoover right now, man. You need to be careful, man. Shout out T-Rill. Shout out Smack.

Jap 5, like you, like you're reping. Is this a head joke? I'm just going to go ahead and see this is a head joke. I don't know what's the reference is though. You didn't check in. She needs to check in. Rachel, you, you're reping Hoover right now. See, you haven't been in L.A.

long enough. You don't know the... Orange? Orange. I thought I was safe with orange. I actually thought about it for a second, and I was like, looking at my bandanas, and I was like, orange is safe. There is no color. Yellow? In L.A. that is safe. No. There's no color in L.A. that is safe.

You're, there's... L.A. God, I'm going home after this. L.A. By the way, the guys that you have, the color that's on top of there, the orange, I can make an argument that they actually the craziest niggas are out. I can make an argument that those are the guys that have probably maybe the most enemies.

And I'm, hey, man, shout out to everybody. You know, I wish I could have like, oh, like with all the colors. I pledged to join all the gangs. A rainbow? Yeah, like, put me on every different set. That's what, but. I really did know. No, you don't know.

It's crazy because I made a car. conscious decision to pick this color because I thought safe. Those guys, them niggas right there might be the most turn. If you, purple, did you, do you think purple is safe? No, I didn't think purple was. Great Street. Green? No, green is not safe.

Gosh. Like, it, it. White might, I don't know about white. We'll bring glasses alone. Of course, white is safe. Yeah, we'll bring glasses Malone. Because remember, some of these are going to be, a shout out to the essay. Some of these going to be on the essay side of things.

No, I figured that. You know, but orange, yeah, man. Or the Houston Rockets cap? All of that. The Houston Rockets cap? No, not the Houston Rockets cap. The Houston Astros cap is what the Hoover's... Really?

Oh, the Orange. The Orange. They do the Orange. So it's a Latino thing? No. No, the Hovers are not a Latino game. They started off as Crips, and some of them still are Crips, but then they were so turned that they broke off from the Crips.

And now they're just the Hoover criminals, but... Well, now I just wish you were. We're making a head joke. You got to pause with this. I try to be, Donnie, I try to be a grown-up about these things,

but you keep saying making a head joke, man. Chill out, man. Chill out with that. Chill out with all that shit. No, I'm not doing it because... Go ahead. Take the bait.

No, I'm not taking the bait. Because the audience already, our audience is... It's cooking. What? The joke. You're thinking of it. I'm not.

I'm not thinking of it. I'm off of that. Our audience, by the way, is like, fucking high strong right now. I could tell that the stress of the election is getting to the thought wars. It's getting to all of us.

And rallies like this just make you even more just on edge. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping.

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So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Okay, so we're having a discussion about comedy now and its utility and limits. And we don't know that much about comedy, but we have friends here at Higher Learning. And one of our friends is a comedy expert.

and he's Why does that make you laugh at being an expert on comedy? Because you ain't never good at this shit, man. You just keep trying. That's all it is. I'm sorry, keep building. You heard his voice, you know his voice.

Very humble. Roy Wood Jr., comedy expert and multimillionaire of the highest order, one of the richest men on the planet, joins us today on higher learning. Roy, how you doing? doing. Hey man, don't be lying to these folks out there be in by people that's got hopes and dreams

attached to my networks. Look at my background. If I was rich, I have all the back splash in the shit back there. I ain't even put no books up. But I see you got the gold air pause. I've never seen that before. I never seen that before. There are certain things I splurge on. I don't do jewelry. I don't know no car. So I mean, you know, every nine in an electronic treat yourself.

Let's get to the comedy because if we got time on the back side, I need to agree with Rachel about Muppets and why oh, thank you. We'll come back to it. Oh, my God. Thank you. I know I went alone. Okay. Well, let's get to it. Okay, we talked about the Trump rally a little bit

earlier. There was a comedian that took the stage. His name is Tony Hitchcliffe. Now, you guys, if you guys are thinking it's some small, obscure comedians, not. He's actually pretty popular. He hosts a show called Kill Tony. He's been around for

very long time. He's part of Joe Rogan's fear. Very direct insult comedy style. He took the stage at Trump's rally. And this is some of the stuff that Tony said while he was up there. We're going to talk a little bit about what this means on that particular forum and whether or not it was appropriate a little bit after. But we want you to hear some of the things that he said. Start off by what do you have to say about black people?

All right. Heck yeah. It's a cool black guy with a thing on his head. What the hell is that? A lampshade? Look at this guy. Oh, my goodness. I'm just kidding. That's one of my buddies. He had a Halloween party last night. We had fun. We carved watermelons together. It was awesome. Not the only people he hit. He also got to Puerto Ricans and the island of Puerto Rico, which has pissed off almost everybody.

Donnie hit us with it. There's a lot going on. I don't know if you guys know this, but there's literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean. right now. Yeah. I think it's called Puerto Rico. So Roy. All right. Okay. There's been a conversation. Tony came out and he defended himself. He said that

he hit everybody and these are just jokes. And there's been a conversation, an ongoing conversation about what's okay from comics, what is comedy, and what should be taken seriously. He says this is all fair game in comedy. What does Roy Wood say. I think you can make a joke about anything you want to make a joke about. I just don't think comedians can get mad if people got backlash on it. Also, we have to start looking at the venue

of where you're doing comedy. First mistake, I feel like any comedian make is doing jokes behind a podium because automatically, like, you know the most disrespectful thing about all of this is that every article that's mad at Tony Hinchcliff refers to him as a speaker. And it's like, that's where you already know the jokes didn't land. When people refer to you. to you as speaker and your jokes are remarks. That's the one thing you don't want as a comedian. It ain't jokes I would have made. If you look at like, say, the correspondence dinner,

if you put Tony Hinchcliff in the correspondent's dinner where you expect comedy that's going to be on the edge, then you're going to get that and you expect it. And it's not that big of the deal. But to make those types of jokes and that type of thing, you, of course, it's going to, you know you didn't fuck up when Bad Bunny and J-Lo and Geraldo are mad. I think we see Geraldo.

Yeah, Holado's picture. Everybody came out. Like, most of the prominent Puerto Ricans all stepped out and said something, you know, about what Tony did. But, you know, you can do jokes. But if you're doing jokes in certain venues where people are charged up, it's just, it's not going to go well. It's just going to always be an uphill battle, man. So with everybody's mad, everybody's upset. Even people from Congress people in the GOP are speaking out against what.

what Tony had to say. With all the backlash that he's getting, do you think he should apologize? No, you can't apologize. Not as a comedian. You can't apologize for the jokes. You can't respect the fact that folks didn't want to hear him or whatever happened on the backside of your career. That's on you. But if you apologize, then you're creating a dynamic for the next comedian to have to apologize. Because you got to remember as a comedian, I'm also thinking about this from the angle. that I want to make edgy jokes, too. Or you go all the way back to Michelle Wolf with the smoky eye against Harold Huckabee Sander's joke. There's always going to be somebody that goes, you went too far. I don't think he helped the GOP. When Trump's campaign has to release a statement,

going to statement of views of Tony Hinchcliffe, do not reflect the reviews of the Trump campaign. And we love all the Puerto Ricans. Please vote. I think you've, I think you didn't fuck up. I think you're going to fucked up. And, you know, and that, but it's, an apology does what, Rachel?

My issue with comedians apologizing for jokes is that they'll go, you should apologize. And then you apologize, and then they go, well, you can keep that apology. You shouldn't. It's just an opportunity for you to be re-scaled. So if people ain't fucking what you, just accept that and move on as a comic and lick your wounds.

I think what we also forget is that a lot of these comedians that we try to cancel now, the one thing you ain't heard in the last couple years with any of these comedians is, they need to go after their job, but they need to fire them. They need to take them off or whatever show. All these cats are self-made. All these comedians are stirred apart

and that's from Chappelle on down. All of the outrage against Chappelle, all I did was get them a 20-mail re-up with Netflix. So the idea of there being some efficacy and the outrage lessening or hurting his pockets, kill Tony's audience is his audience. And that boy had been living in the shadows for a long time,

making a lot of money, a lot of people to say first time ever hearing of them. So I don't know how a comedian can make something right. If that's the jokes Tony wanted to do, cool. I'm not making no jokes about watermelons and Puerto Ricans at a racially charged in divisive time in our country. That's not me. But I don't think he should apologize.

I just, because it ain't going to fix it. So let's talk about you. You have a show right now that you're hosting on CNN called Have I Got News for You. It's on, CNN's Have I Got News for You? It's on Max. it blends political news with comedy, which is something that you've done for a while.

It's politics. So you understand the line that you walk when you're talking about politics and you're doing comedy. Do you do it a different way? With the way people consume politics and how important it is to their daily lives, is there a way that you do this?

You've been on the White House correspondent, on its dinner. You do this. This is kind of your wheelhouse. Is there a different way that you go about it when politics is such a portion of your comedic content? It's where it's, but it's

the thing is that also, Van, is that the line changes based on sensitivities and where people are feeling and where we are as a nation. I feel like it's your job as a comedian to be able to read the room and figure out where the third rail is and where the live wires are that you're not supposed to to touch. But for me,

it's like CNN, the benefit that I get at CNN that I didn't get at the daily show is that at CNN, this show is basically, it's a lazy-ass quiz show about current events from the past week. So we just asking questions about, and you learn about current events. Whereas with the daily

show, you have to get to the causation of the problem that you're making jokes about or present a solution to the problem. That was pretty much, that was like the through the creative spine of every segment we did as a correspondent, it's either whose fault is this

or what's the solution? And within that, you find the jokes. And so with this show, it's a lot lighter, so I get to just more so inform people than really dig into who we need to point the finger at. But I think there's still a responsibility, whether we like it or not as comedians, that you can say, I'm just making jokes.

And, hey, I ain't trying to make no jokes to start no right. That's cool, but you've got to respect the fact that some folks are going to use at his ammunition to justify doing terrible shit to people. Let me ask you a question. Is there any such thing as accountability for a comic? Should we expect accountability from comics?

Is that even a fair expectation, or is that not a part of the calculus that goes into being a stand-up comic or a fan of stand-up comedy? I don't think it goes into, I don't think any comedian writes a joke with the idea that this, the joke that's going to change the world

or really set things off. I think the issue now is that we got a lot of folks that are mistaken outrage for applause, so they perform for outrage and reaction. And if that's how you perform, that's not sustainable. I think that's creatively lazy. You're not doing anything that's really, in my opinion, performatively good because you're just going, oh, you can't take a joke. Where the fuck is the punchline, bro?

Where's the attempt at making someone laugh? So if you're saying stuff to get people to react negatively or positively, to me, that's just a whole, that's a whole other, that ain't even performing as much as that should be a pundit or a commentator, man. I don't, but I don't think we should be putting that responsibility. Because not every comedian is trying to change the world. Some comedians just trying to tell you about their family. Some comedies just trying to tell you, like, if you look at the 85 South Show, if we just use them as an example. They up there just trying to give you some. It's two types of comedy.

It's comedy that faces the prize. and comedies that help you escape the problems for 90 minutes. 85, the brilliant, the most brilliant comics do both. You take like a Cat Williams where like Cat could talk about something way over here and then he could somehow bring that back into a political issue. Chappelle does that to a degree as well, though I feel like Chappelle with his specials, he might be very introspective on one special. And then the next special, it's reactionary to, you know, whatever's happening around him.

But I don't think any comedian should be sitting out here acting like their jokes are as good as activism or as good as going out and door knocking and petitioning. It can be if you want it to be. Like, even with my material, bro, like, I try to just find the third rail or the third prism at how to view something. I ain't got the solutions to everything. So I don't want to do preacher comedy. That's just not, that doesn't interest me. But if I can take something, we already been laughing at. And I can figure out another angle to look at it.

Then maybe that helps to normalize the conversation around that issue. But I can't get on Reddit and start seeing, well, how many people started looking at such and such thing after the fact? All I can do is just say that Clarence Thomas, you can buy Clarence Thomas for the price of a house in Georgia. So the Democrats need to start buying Supreme Court justices. That's the solution. so you want to talk about Roe v. Wade, let's talk about the fact that you can get the Supreme Court justice for $100,000

and two trips. Clarence Thomas busing it open, new trips wasn't that expensive. If you're looking at what the billionaire haul and crow, what he bought him for, that's a deal, bro. The Turkish government got Eric Adams for a hundred thousand.

Yeah. Turkey. I could, I could, if me and Trevor Noah put out, money together. We could buy a couple of mayors. So to me, that's the joke.

Now within that joke, if you then understand the idea that political corruption and it's so easy to corrupt people and that if you really pay attention to the Eric Adams issue, you'll notice that foreign governments are infiltrating our country at the state and local level affecting policy of politicians who will soon be in Washington.

That's how you infiltrate Washington. If you get all of that from that joke, great. But if not, I don't know how to, in a funny way, spell out all of everything of what I just said to you just now. But that's what I truly feel. So I try to use, like for me, that's how I try to use politics to spend some of this shit. And I just don't think every comedian is intelligent enough or has the work ethic or the interest to approach every joke like that. And so the moment we say comedian, we assume all comedians to be.

held to the same standard as cop or firefighter, like we all came out of the same ethics academy to do this craft, and we didn't. And so that's where judging one the same as the other, society is now going to say, well, none of y'all can say the joke about the thing. Well, what if my joke is good? You ain't going to even listen to the premise? And, and, you know, I think that, you know, comedian Mike Babbigley has said, you know, years ago, he said the comedy only works, if we all agree on the premise. And now we don't even agree that the earth is flat, bro. So if I start a joke from that spot...

That the earth is round. It don't even matter what the punchline is. You don't agree with the prince. Right. So right there. So when you're watching as a liberal, a Trump rally, the entire event is a premise you don't agree with. So it's never going to connect.

So apologize. to who and then get what? You better off standing on it becoming a martyr amongst your fan base. I'm curious, and I'm asking you to speculate a little bit, especially because of what you just did that was funny. Do you think, I think we can all agree

that Tony bombed. If he was funny, do you think that we wouldn't even be talking about this? What is funny? That's the thing. I don't think that, I don't think every joke landed. Let me just say that. I'll say, I'll, okay, I'll agree there. But is there a, well, here's a question back to you.

Is there a conservative comedian that you like? Is there a comedian you don't agree with that you like right now? Because that's rare now. So, like, the idea of a Carlin, like, Carlin can make you laugh even if you didn't agree with him. Yeah. Like, like Tony bombed, okay, he bombed by the standards of police. political ideology within that.

There was punchlines. There was attempts at punchlines. The Puerto Rican thing, that's a punchline. It's not a good joke, but it was a punchline. And have you seen those Puerto Ricans that are already outside the rally talking about I still have on But Farnbergardis. Yeah. Which to me is an even worse endorsement because they're going,

I don't care about the joke. I still like Trump versus the joke was funny. Right. Yeah. So it's interesting that you, that you ask that question. I think that's a. That's a very key question. And so I would say the takeaway,

so conservative comedians, I can't think of any right now that I'm into because I can't think of any comedians that I would identify as directly conservative. As a whole. As a whole, but I'll say this stuff. You might find jokes funny. So there are jokes that are from white guys

about black people that I think are funny. Like Bill Burr has a joke. He has a couple of jokes, but he has one where he was talking about going to meet a girl in Harlem. and how more nervous he got as the numbers of the streets went up. Yeah, and then it started naming civil rights leaders. And like, anytime the dating girl who lives on streets named after civil rights leaders, he gets nervous.

He gets nervous. That's funny. Like, it's funny because he's, it's, it's not totally un, it's not, not racially charged, but he's making fun or the one that he has where, where he says, uh, white guy, say this motherfucking Asian and black guys go hey this Asian motherfucker he goes just the

placement of that motherfucker completely changes the joke so it there are comedians that make these things but like I think the punchline of Puerto Rico being an island filled with garbage that it's a garbage island

that the people and the culture and all of that that being the funny thing is the thing that like I look at that I go, who would laugh at that? Like, who would laugh at all the people there being garbage? Who would like, why would that be funny to anyone calling a whole group of people garbage? And that's what Tony's done over the course of his career. That's the type of humor he's done.

I'm not saying this for me. Right. I'm not saying this for you. And I think the difference between Bill Burr also is that, and Carlin, too, is that Burr has a way of creating a power dynamic within the joke where the minority is either equal or greater than. He has a joke about being on the train and how black people can hear. use racism and white people can't and how a black guy was trying to get on the train,

but the door was closing on him and the train was crowded. And the conductor is yelling at the black guy. And the black guy goes, why you ain't yelling at these honky motherfuckers? And the whole joke is about a black guy attacking white people and how as a white man, he couldn't say shit as equally racist back to the black guy. So I think there's a way that you've got to craft a bit in a way where it makes sense. When you start speaking in broad generalities, man, you're going to piss people off. That's just the reality of.

As a comedian, if you want to step on that landmine, go ahead. That's not the type of comedy I'm trying to do. And I think this is probably the last comedian that's going to get booked by the Trump campaign. I just think if you make the attempt, you have to stick the landing. This is a terrible – I love baseball, and this is a terrible analogy, but I was talking with Cliff Floyd, who does broadcast for the Chicago Cubs. And we were talking about – It was a regular season game where a runner,

Shoahe Otani tried to steal third base and he got thrown out. No, no, it was a player for the Cubs tried to steal third base. And he goes, if you're going to steal third base, you've got to steal third base. That's the ruling baseball. You don't get thrown out of third base. I've heard white comics use the N-word in a way where I'm like, all right,

ain't saying I'm going to go and play it on BET.com. But if you're going to make the attempt and you're going to structure it, it needs to be structured in a way where you're trying to make sure that you're trying to get a laugh and not a groan. And if you're only performing for groans

and outrage, that's a limited reservoir of returns, man. And I just, I don't know. That's just not how I'm trying to, folks groaning on me, man. I haven't done something wrong. That's not my stuff. Last question for me about speech of the rally. When he started off talking,

he started talking about free speech being at stake. And he probably would say that, and he was saying it was, and he probably after the backlash would say that that's currently the case. Now, do you feel that way as a comedian? That free speech is at stake? Yeah. Or in peril.

You know, and any comedian saying that is saying that to rile up their fan base to make them think that they're in a battle and that we are in it together. Now give me some of your money, make sure you like and subscribe. That's, I cannot think of a comedian other than Catherine. Griffin who did something that legitimately cut off the paper. I'll wait. Kathy Griffin did the Trump being picture. And Hollywood closed doors on her.

Venues would not book her. She couldn't even get road money. So you take someone like Shane Gillis, who's probably the last of the last of the white boys to lose a job over some old racism that they dug up, right? That boy bawled out to millions of dollars

on tour, a Netflix special, and a Netflix sitcom that's going into a second year. Louis C.K. came out of whatever purgatory that he was sent to sold out Madison Square. We already talked about Chappelle getting his re-up, and who was outraged more than Chappelle? Chappelle had them trans employees at

Netflix protesting, losing their job to speak out against that man. So the idea of you can't speak freely. If you can't speak freely, then show me how it is affecting the bottom line. I think a lot of comedians also have mistaken freedom of speech

for freedom of venue. You don't get freedom of venue, my nigga. You get to talk whatever you want, and if worse come to worse, you get a PA system and you stand on the corner like when folks do in New York. Be out there on the curb.

Like, I don't know, pick a religion. Every religion got somebody on the curve. I ain't going to just say. I almost said Hebrew. Israelites, but it ain't just them. I'm from the South. Them Baptist preachers be on the corner. That's why I first heard it. That's why I first heard it. You're going into the club

and somebody's standing outside like, hey, you're walking into the gates of hell. And I'm like, God damn, not right now. It's Friday. You know what I'm talking? Cover it up, young lady. Yeah. And so this idea that you can't handle freedom of speech, that's a lie.

Ain't nobody getting locked up. Now, I will say if Trump getting off, we're going to find out just how free speech really is because that boy already talking about locking up folks and taking away licenses and I really do believe that there will be some degree of an attempt at dictatorial like there's a comedian ah I can't remember the country in Asia there's a comedian there it ain't just Asia like there there are comedians in other countries that get locked up for talking shit about the government have your researcher dig on that real

quick, but I'm pretty sure it was somewhere there was a country in Asia where a buddy was talking sideways and getting locked up like Lenny Bruce, like it was in 1950s, bro. So if you always have a place to perform and people who want to give you money, or you oh, YouTube de-platformed me and demonetized

me, because I'm speaking the truth. That's suppression. No, it ain't. YouTube ain't no different than a store or a ticket master venue. We don't want you up in here. So you just go find somewhere else. Andrew Schultz lost the of his venue, Shultz did that Trump interview, and then he lost a venue for what he suspect was having Trump on his show.

He booked another venue and sold it out in a week. Is he suppressed? Or did that venue just go, we don't rock with Shultz? And then this other venue goes, we do. You still get your money. So I don't buy that freedom of speeches under attack bullshit because that's just people manipulating y'all and they're thinking that y'all are in a war with them.

Anybody who's telling you that they rights and your rights is under attack, I guarantee you right behind it, they're going to ask you for some bread. Let's get into this Muppets thing, man. Or sell you a watch or some shit. Hopefully it's a good watch. Let's get into this Muppets thing, man.

Rachel has shocked everyone here at Higher Learning by saying that the Muppets are creepy and that she doesn't like the Muppets. And here comes one of America's favorite faces. Roy Wood Jr., somebody that everybody loves, loves. Everybody loves. He's coming on here and you saying you agree with this heresy from Michael's? If I was asked to be on Sesame Street, I don't know if I would go. Yes. I don't know. And tell them why. They're furry. And let me just say this broadly.

I never really watched Sesame Street growing up. I was aware of it. But I watched Square One. Okay. That was my show. And I watched you can't do that on tell. Like I was on it. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I watch, but I didn't rock with Sesame Street. Fraggle Rock was creepy.

I didn't fool with none of the Muppets, Moody's, ain't seen, not nan, one of them ever. And I just, I can't, bro. I don't fool with dolls, little figurines. Like, if I go in your house and you got them little figurines, I leave that room. Like, I'm ventriloquist. I don't fuck with them. I'll tell you this story. Rachel, this is going to make your skin crawl.

I open for this ventriloquist, and when you're opening sometimes, you'd be opening for these headliners that's got DUI so the motherfucker ain't got no car. So you got to drive them city to city for the whole week on the run that you're on. Buddy had a ventriloquist, and he told me that you have to build a relationship

with the doll so that it feels natural on stage. So every day, when we stop to get lunch on the road, he would bring the fucking dog. into the fucking restaurant and set that bitch at the table and then tell the hostess party of three. You and me, dog.

And sit that nigga at the table and then throw us forward, I just have water. Why don't you have water? You would. It's going to silk up. Oh, just getting water. Like, he's doing that. Like, we're not moving his mouth or whatever. And I got to sit and act like this is normal

behavior because you could fire me. Right. Did you talk to the doll? Roy, did you talk to the dog? Yes, he did. No, but he would have the doll in the trunk and would act like the doll was like

just in the middle of the ride. So I'm not saying, Jim Henson is one of the few people who talk to puppets and use his powers for good and education. And I'm happy for him. And I'm happy for the empire that he's built and all the people he's educated.

But I ain't fucking with no big bird movie, bro. I'm just not. It used to creep me out, and I just don't know if I can ever come back from that, man. You call it childhood trauma from sleep paralysis, and I used to see the demons. So maybe it was that. I really appreciate this perspective. I'm not rocking with none of that stuff, man. Like, I just, like, my mom bought me a cabbage patch kid doll, and I gave that shit away at school.

Yeah. Van tries to say we don't have a childlike spirit because we aren't. I don't like the mop is. How you don't like Kermit? We just put that energy into something else. Roy, you don't like Kermit the Frog. Kermit the Frog. Kermit's weak, bro.

First of all, you letting piggy boss you around. That's a bigger issue with Kermit. Is that Kermit, you know, look, I ain't trying to get all, you know, alpha male, you know. Stand up for yourself, Kermit. Testosterone on you, but stand up for yourself, Kermit.

He's a little soft, man. I just, I never, hated it, it's just nothing I ever sought out. I would watch Muppet babies every now and then. Cartoon. Yeah, I watched that in the mornings, but I, there's just something, like, even, and this is terrible to say, even Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog.

Oh, he's amazing. Shout out to Roberts, Mike. Shout out to your Robert. I don't know if I could be in the same room with it. I understand. The show is, have I got news for you, for me to September. Tell us a little bit about the show Saturdays at 9 p.m. Eastern on CNN

and then Sundays on Max. Tell us a little bit about it. Man, all we do is crack jokes. If it happened in the past six days, we're talking about it on the 7th, and we do it in a fake quiz format. Myself, Amber Ruff and Michael Ian Black, and we usually have two guests every week to come on and we're just talking shit and cracking jokes

about the week that was. If you're angry or you didn't cry about it, tell you right now, we ain't the place. So you're mad or you want to cry, this ain't the show. You want to laugh. Swing on by. You all have two guests, so I want you in the future, if y'all got two guests, two slots. Yeah. You know, we-I know if.

Okay, okay. I rock with y'all. And I rock with Rachel even more now because it is this Muppet shit. I rock with you too. Better get you some Transformers, Van. Where was you? I had Transformers and Thundercats. That's what I was doing.

I had Transformers. I had the Thundercats. Shout out to my cousin, Coy, for stealing all of my shit. I had all of that stuff, but I loved them Muppets. as well. No. Coming there one day, he man,

Castle Grace Gold, gone. Coy just took him. Shout out. But you know, but you didn't want anything to do with the Muppets.

Didn't want anything to do with the Muppets. Watch the Fragler Rock intro and tell me that ain't creepy. No, Fragoron is creepy. 90 Muppets in a

in a cave doing choreogram. Well, the Fragal Rocks, I will say, they kind of in hell. You can make an argument about Fragal Rock. I was entertained by Fragal Rock,

but it's creepy. Roy Wood Jr. We appreciate you joining us on higher learning today, brother. Appreciate y'all, man. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimfire radio.com. This episode is brought to you by Sweetgreen. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweet Green's new wraps have got you.

Real ingredients? Zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aoli, crumbled bacon, corn salsa. grams of protein made to keep up with whatever comes next new sweet green raps hit different order now at order dot sweetgreen.com all right sad news uh little dirk it's been charged in murder for hire conspiracy grammy winning rapper little dirk from chicago um he's arrested a resident resident in florida federal charges that he paid for the attempted 22 revenge killing of rapper quando rondo Do you know the whole story behind this, Rachel?

I think so. I think I got it. While it was on hip-hop homicides, we covered the death of King Vaughn. And so this is connected to that in a really specific way, because this has to do with King Vaughn's death. So, just a quick rundown of where all this started.

NBA young boy, rapper from Baton Rouge. Okay. Oh, yes. Yeah, from Baton Rouge. Yeah, NBA Young Boy, rapper from Baton Rouge. And he was into it with King Vaughn and Little Dirt, more so King Vaughn. Okay. NBA young boy and Dirk started off cool.

Apparently King Vaughn wanted a feature from NBA Youngboy. NBA young boy doesn't do features. Okay. And he's a very prickly type of individual. He doesn't do features. He stays some time. Fair. This apparently started some type of dissension between him and Vaughn.

Him and King Vaughn. All right. They're going back and forth. King Vaughan is dissing on NBA young boy, blah, blah, blah. Then the women get involved. Somebody's having sex with somebody else's baby's mom. Somebody's having sex with somebody else's girl. The women get involved in between the two of this stuff.

And now it's up between these two factions. Cuando Rondo, who allegedly was the target of this murder for hire, was signed to NBA Youngboy. Okay. King Vaughn is signed to a little bit. Dirk and him and Little Dirk are from the same neighborhood in Chicago. Okay.

There is an altercation outside of a club in Atlanta, 2020, King Vaughn is killed. A guy named Lil Tim pulls out a gun after there is a fight between Coando Rondo and King Vaughn and he shoots Von Vaughn dies. After this, there was a whole investigation from the GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigations and the police. we talked to people in the parking lot that day that say the police fired some of the shots that killed some of these people. People are not sure there's a whole investigation surrounding all of this

stuff, right? I actually talked to King Vaughn's sister who was there at the time and talks about who she saw shoot some members of King Vaughn's entourage and maybe it was the cops, whatever, whatever. Little Tim is brought up on charges for that, but to my knowledge, little Tim beat those charges. Oh, wow. So nobody's been held responsible for the deaths of King Von. Wow. No. No. Here's where the street's coming to it.

Sliding. King Vaughn is dead. It's a huge tragedy for drill music and for people that are involved in it. A lot of people are saying slide for Vaughn. A little dirt should slide for Vaughn. Slide means get retribution. Apparently, according to the government, dirt took that to heart. because it seems as if what the government is alleging

is that Lil Durk was involved in a pay-for-murderer scheme against Cuando Rondo that was attempted in 2022. This is in West Hollywood where this attempted drill went down and ended up in the death of Cuando Rondo's cousin. There is a harrowing video of Cuando Rondo, like screaming and crying as he

comes to the or the realization that his cousin is dead. The government is said, is saying, shall I say, that five members of OTF, which is Dirk's rap collective have, are a part of this,

that they were put up to this with money from Dirk, promises of record deals from Dirk because Dirk wanted to get back at Cuando Rondo for the death of King Vonn. So, Dirk has been arrested. Five other members of OTF had been arrested. Dirk was arrested this past Thursday now in South Florida. He was attempting to flee the country is what the FBI says.

To say this shooting was a cold-blooded murder and tied to this years-long back and forth between these two guys. Of course, King Vaughn was a part of OTF And there was as much outside pressure from fans For dirt to slide For Vaughn As there was maybe a personal Imperative from him to do the same thing So look where we are now

So now what? You know, it's like I wasn't aware that the public was pressuring him I knew obviously that they were very close and, you know, as one would be, he's upset at the loss of his longtime friend. But, you know, allegedly having a murder for hire and now to seek revenge, which won't bring back the person that you lost, won't make you feel, I believe, at the end of the day, any better, you know, like you did something that people were pressuring you to do or maybe you wanted to do, allegedly. But at the end of the day, it doesn't bring that life back. All it did

was take away somebody else's life, endanger other people, and now you and others are facing jail time at the end of the day. So it's like, what did that do? Like people pressuring somebody to kill somebody else or take the life of somebody else for what, y'all? Like, why are we doing this? I understand you wanting justice in however that looks. Of course, it won't bring back that person, but to take the life of another, and just to say you did it, just to say that you were successful and sliding?

Donnie, I want you to find, if you can, the clip of Cuando Rondo talking about what he would do now if somebody smacked him in the face in front of everyone. Is that what allegedly King Vond did him? Okay. Well, Vaughn did punch him. That same night in the club? No, no, it was outside of the club.

Outside of the club. Like, Vaughn, there was a fight. Okay, okay. Between King Vaughn and Cuando Rondo. There was a fight. So, Donnie, if you can find the clip about Cuando Rondo saying what he would do right now

if somebody smacked him in the face in front of everybody. Here's the thing. I do think that when these guys exact revenge, it does make them feel better. Temporarily. Sure. I think that it does make them feel better.

The reason why it makes them feel better is because I think they've convinced themselves that this never-ending cycle of violence, actually, I don't think this, I know how this goes from talking to people that have been involved and stuff like this, that this never-ending cycle of violence is actually the only way to police what's going on in an neighborhood, right? You can't take a loss without getting back at the other side because if you don't get back at the other side, it makes it look like someone can come over where you are and just fuck with your people and there's nothing that you can do about it. All of this stems from the same reason why when somebody raises their voice to me or when somebody threatens me,

I feel like I can't let it go. Like literally, the, the same reason why I, well, if I feel played at all, to where I sit there and I stew, to like, if I have got to respond, I have got to let everybody know that's watching or, and myself know, for people that are watching and for me, I have to let people know that I'm not the person

you can fuck with like that. Now, there is a part of me that's always going to defend myself, but there is a part of me that it's just been ground into me that showing some sort of weakness or what I perceive to be weakness says something very core about who I am as a man.

So if you're talking to everybody, if it's 10 people in this room, and for some reason you fucking with me, in my mind I'm thinking, why does he think I'm the nigger to fuck with? Yeah, no. I get it. You know what I'm saying?

Like, why does he think I'm the nigger? to fuck with. Okay, so now I have to show him that I'm not the nigger to fuck with. Now, that's a quaint version of this. But even me as being a 44 year old man, there's a part of me that has to let go of that. Sure. That has to let go of feeling that there's a part of my manhood and my masculinity that's attached to somebody else's action against me. And I have to make smart decisions. This is a whole mutated version of that and it's not

obviously quite the same because I'm talking about either words or what at the very worst would be like a fistfight or something and we're talking about people's lives here. I don't know what to say. I'll just tell them I'll say like this and there's a

it always feels uncomfortable to call out the streets because you respect the streets when you come from a place where you're tangential to what's going on in the streets. But I got to be honest with you guys, just to all my street niggas out there, this don't seem like very much fun. I'm going to be real with you, and I don't,

look, I get it that people come from tough situations and some people are forced into lives and they are cultured into lives. But I'll be honest with you guys. It's like, this seems like, a deadly virus that no amount of money or achievement or fame or stability, it seems like a virus. Like what would you call something that it doesn't matter what situation that you're in,

that it still affects your body and takes control? It seems like a virus. To me, it seems like the street mentality is a virus. Well, yeah. Because Dirk, to be honest with you, and these are all allegations, Dirk has not been convicted of anything. Dirk has no business engaging in this. It's an extreme tragedy that after everything that he's achieved,

that he could not let go of the mentality that might put him back in jail forever. That, to me, it seems like a virus. Well, it is a virus. I mean, especially when you feel like you have to answer to people you don't know, when you have to answer to a certain code, and then you stay in this cycle, as you were saying, okay, somebody takes the life, then allegedly you take another person's life.

Again, I go back to now what, but then you're always looking over your shoulder for the person who's trying to get revenge for you. And like, that's the cycle. It just, to me, when at the end of the day, all you want is that life back that you can't get, there has to be another way because what I'm not going to do is ignore somebody's feelings

for that pain they feel when they lose somebody. And I understand the feeling of revenge and wanting to that person to hurt in the same way that you are or their loved ones to hurt like you're hurting at the loss of the person. But there has to be a different way. So I'm not even telling you not to get revenge. I'm just saying taking somebody's life is and, as you said, losing all the things that he could possibly lose if he is,

convicted of this crime or other people could, other people that are now affected and hurting because of something that you did. There has to be another way to do it. I'm like you. If somebody does something to me, it is very hard for me not to act on it. I would say in 2024, and of course there are levels to it, right? We're not talking about murder here, but in 2024, I have been challenged to that to the T and to not matching that same energy. And what my response would be to anybody who's in a situation where they're wanting to exact some type of revenge

is you have to find a way to not, I wouldn't say rise above it, but to play chess and not checkers. Right? You want somebody to feel something, and this sounds dark, but I guess I'm just not ignoring somebody's feelings of pain.

There has to be a way to do it where you're not taking somebody's life or somebody's not getting hurt. Do you know what I mean? Like, they're, I feel like I'm going down a dark hole. No, you are going down a dark hole. But no, my point is, is, of course, you're going to want some sort of revenge,

but it can't be the taking the life of somebody else. What about this? I don't mean it that way. What about this? Let me give you another. Play chess. Sleep justice in a different way, is what I'm trying to say. Let me give you another option.

What if you choose healing? That's an option. So, so, okay, okay. That's an option. So what if you, like a radical option for all of us that are caught up in a cycle of violence and like a cycle of desperation. What if we choose to heal? So listen.

And heal. No, no, no, no. And heal. Because I just, it's... Wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on. What if we choose healing? And what if we all together share the load of what that means?

And let me tell you what I mean by that. Because if we expect young black men who are in these situations, to choose healing and young black women who are in these situations to choose healing, then we have a responsibility to provide resources,

to provide outlets, to provide choices. We have to help them heal. What if we say that this is not a problem that's just based upon Little Dirk's bad decisions and Cuando Rondo's bad decisions and

all the of the guys that I talk to it, NBA young boy, what if these are decisions that are influenced by systems and we go, we're going to choose healing, we want you to choose healing, and we want to help you. Tell you something about this. Dirk and whomever else has been to a movie before. You've been to a movie before, right? You watch the movie. Give me a movie that you like where the bad guy dies and he. A movie I like where the bad guy does? I don't know. A movie that you like when... Okay, Black Panther.

Black Panther. I would argue maybe not the bad guy. Oh, Killmonger's not the bad guy. Okay. Well, that's why he's sympathetic. He's, but he treats women poorly, but I would argue that he's not the bad guy. Yes. Okay.

But actually, it's perfect character, okay? Okay, great. So Killmonger dies. You've watched the whole movie. You've watched it play out. You've watched everything that happens in the movie. Killmonger dies. How does that affect you?

I mean, me personally, it does. Right. Do you know why? Because I have no attachment to them. Because what you're looking at on the screen isn't real to you. Yeah. I'm telling these young rappers and young guys that are out there, the kids that are sitting behind desks and in their bedrooms and that are consuming this stuff, your life is not real to them. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Your life to them is Black Panther,

where the people that are running Shirecology on Reddit that are keeping up with this stuff, like it's episodes in the book, the people that are connecting all of these, it's not real to them. There's no stake in it for them. They are watching Black Panther. They are watching New Jack City.

They are watching Boys in the Hood. They are fans of an ongoing soap opera. Sure. that in your lives means you fucking go to jail for life and your cousins and your friends and your sisters get shot up. That's what it means to you. To your audience, it's not real at all. You will go to jail.

You will get killed. They will fuck. They will eat. They will laugh. And they will wait for the next person. So all of the people that are exerting all of this pressure on you to act in a specific way that to be honest, you say that you will act on your records and in your interviews.

All of these people have no concept of what your actual life is. They don't know anything about you. They don't know nothing about who you actually really are. They're basing their perception of you based upon a character that you're playing on records. Do not spin, slide. do anything for a bunch of popcorn watching motherfuckers that don't know shit about you. I agree.

Be brave enough to be your own man because this shit leading the same place every time is ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. I would like to clarify my revenge comments. What I'm saying is, I think it's hard for me to ignore the fact that somebody wants to do something in retaliation.

I don't mean, and I think I've clarified this, tit for tat, what I mean is Cuando Rondo's in the music business. Maybe he doesn't get the next deal. They already did that to him. Maybe. See, but I didn't know that. But that's what I'm saying. That is more of a calculated thing where it should be enough in addition to getting the

healing that you need. Because. Rachel's not ready to heal yet. No, no, no, yeah. Well, maybe not. But I just am making space for, why can't both be? I would like to say that I've done a lot of healing. Yeah.

But it doesn't mean that I'm not doing anything. I just talked about it a second ago. Like I'm in a situation and I feel, you know a situation where I felt played. Yes. Could I let it go? No. Had to get on the phone and check temperatures, right? No.

Like, it's like, like, you know a situation where I felt played, everybody felt played and had to get on the phone and check temperatures. Yeah, yeah. Now, ended up being fine, but two people that are basically from the same place that basically feel exactly the same way about that, that were raised with basically the same situation, that should be on the same accord, two great men kind of checking each other's temperatures over something that really doesn't matter. Can't let it go. Can't feel a certain way. It's not the way we were raised. It's not how things go. So I want to heal.

I do too. But I'm not there. I want to play this from Cuando Rondo, before we get out of this topic, just to hear maybe what he's learned. I'm not knighting or sainting Quando Rondo at all.

At all. If you guys learn about this, there is so much blame to go around on everybody's side. Everybody's talk too much shit. Everybody's made too much threats. But I do want to play this. I ain't, bro, I don't care what nobody think no more.

I'm not going. If you slap me in front of everybody, I'm not about to come kill you, bro. Not because once I kill you and you die and I go to prison and 15 years past and I'm in the damn cage, everybody who said I went out bad for getting slapped, and didn't do nothing, it's going to eventually grow up, get older, and say he went out bad for killing him for his for getting fucked by the slough.

Bro, I understand that. More of that. That's what should be making the rounds. More of that. More of that. You make a decision like that and you end up gone, we got to do better for them and we got to force them to do better. Mm-hmm. But my, my, my, my sure.

street niggas. I know y'all and I love y'all. Y'all got to tell me what the appeal is because I'm not fucking seeing it. All right, let's move on. Speaking of Baton Rouge, Shaq, two Baton Rouge legends from LSU, Shaq and Angel Reese. You know what, Rachel? I want to tell us about this. What do you think? What do you think? All right. Shaq was on Angel Reese's podcast, if you guys didn't know. Her podcast, unapologetically Angel has been really having some viral moments, you know. She's doing good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the camera. The Kayla Nicole moment went very viral.

What did you think about that? The Kayla Nicole moment went viral, but she had Shaq on this episode. And he came on to talk marriage, his latest business moves, and he also talked about the WNBA. Now, background, Angel Reese and Shaquillo Nell, as you just pointed out, both LSU legends, he is a mentor to her. They have a relationship outside of this podcast. This isn't the first time that they've connected, talked. they've spoken about this. Some people have criticized it.

Shacks stepped in and said like she's nothing but a daughter to me. That's how he sees her. Okay? Not Johnny plays a clip. I'm telling you you just lower like that to where it gives your ability to dunk. Bro, imagine you. I'm not imagining. Let me finish.

Imagine you on the same little shirt you had on at the Wilden I show Dunkin. You know how many T-shirts you're going to say? You're tripping. Oh, my God. What? What? The same little shirt. Church you had on the other.

Okay. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. If you watch the clip, you can tell she is very uncomfortable.

She doesn't like this. She's squirming. She's talking back. Yeah. Okay. Donnie, did you see the clip that I put in the chat? Yeah, I got that ready. Okay, so play this for Rachel.

And let's see if this changes Rachel's opinion on the entire thing. You're not beautiful, good looking. You are gorgeous. There's a lot of gorgeous women in here. Like, I love saying that when y'all be coming in because, and then, you know, and then, you know, that's it realized this? Because like, sometimes when people first see y'all, they see what y'all do.

They don't know how fucking beautiful y'all are. But when you're all walking through the game, and men are watching the game, hey, man, we like what we like. Oh, my gosh. Like, we like what we like. So we like that. And then we see, you see y'all dunking, man, your money going to go up tremendously. And y'all can look at me and in the comments you're crazy. I know what I'm talking about.

Okay. Because y'all are, y'all are just fine and high. I don't like y'all are gorgeous. Like you, when you dress up and you, you like really dress up and you're like, you are a beautiful, phenomenal looking black woman. And it's a lot of y'all out there. It really is. White ones too. Like, y'all got some hot mommas in the W&B.

You all really good. Focus on that and then focus on what the guys like. No, we don't care what the guys like. That's the problem. Looking for approval. That's the problem. Why would I change? It only is getting worse.

That's the clip that. So that's the clip that a lot of people say, uh, shows that Shaq wasn't creeping on Angel Reese, but that he was essentially saying that the women in the WNBA should use their sex appeal to sell the product. I think it's both, right?

Because she is a WNBA player. You are specifically telling her what she needs to wear to be more appealing and to attract male viewers because it's not just viewers. He's specifically talking about men watching it. So she is one of the people you're talking about.

So instead of uplifting her as a mentor should do, instead of advising her, I guess he would consider this advice, you are sexualizing her and stereotyping women. These are women athletes and you're basically reducing them to sex. The only way that you can even begin to talk about competing to the level like men is by wearing short shorts and reminding everybody about how beautiful you are rather than how talented you are. That is problematic. And I think Shaq stands ten toes down on that comment, which I think he's speaking for maybe what's, I'm not going to say a lot,

but other men might also view. You're basically taking away any talent that they have, right? You have to lower the rim and you have to be sex kittens, basically, on the court to have any sort of success. Sex kittens. And this is bad, Shaq. This is bad.

This is not Shaq's best moment. It's not at all. Okay. It does, though, in my opinion, reflect... Babs, money. Babs Bunny. Babs Bunny. Babs Bunny from Space Jam. It's just... I just popped into my head.

That's literally... Look at how Babs in the first Space Jam, right? They corrected in the second one. Look at how Babs had to look when she competed. She was sexy. She wasn't... She could hoop, but she was sexy. She could hoop, but, you know, we had to see all of her assets at the same time. I'm pretty sure a man designed Babes.

Probably. I don't know who were... But look at what they felt like she needed to be like on course. She couldn't just be herself. She had to be sexy and play basketball. And more than anything, and I know I'm talking about a cartoon, we were talking about the way Babs looked, then how she played the game. Is it wrong for men to want to watch the WNBA

because they think the women in the WNBA are hot? Well, no. I mean, I look at basketball players and I'm like, oh, he looks good, but it's not my priority as to why I'm watching. I'm not solely watching the game because I think he's cute. You're watching because of what they can do on the court. I'm watching because, yes, I am entertained by the talent.

I am impressed by the talent. I enjoy watching something, you know, that I can't do. It's greatness. It's a skill on the court. And they happen to be attractive. Which is how the WMBA should be viewed. Yes, absolutely. Women that are highly skilled at what it is that they do.

Yeah. And some of them just happen to be fine. And I'll say this. it does seem that a lot of the women in the WNBA recently have embraced their sex appeal more so. Like pregame. Pre game.

Pre game. Post game, other places that we see them. Do you think that that, and Don, I want Donnie and Ashley on this too. Do you think that that will distract some people from, not that it matters, you shouldn't be distracted by, but do you think that, like, how fine,

Andrew Reese is or how I find Kaiser is or how I find some of the ladies in the WNBA will distract the regular watching male from what's actually happening. But see, that's the question that shouldn't even be asked. We shouldn't even have to be dealing with that. But it's a real question, though. Because of how our society is set up. Because of how men are set up. Which is our society.

Yes. Because of how men have been portrayed in society versus women and women competing in an athletic sport, they're still sexualized. It's just how things are. So now we have to ask ridiculous questions of, you know, like, is it distracting? Should it matter? It shouldn't even matter because here's the thing. If I did say that I watched basketball because I think the men are cute, nobody would have a problem with that.

No. Because of how our society is set up. I mean, I think basketball players. They wouldn't have a problem with that. I think basketball players in the NBA have sort of embraced the fashion, the I'm, whatever aspect of this, seeing how they dress. we've seen different photo shoots and all of that stuff going. I think today's basketball player wants to be seen as a sexy guy. Because there's space for them to do that because you're not,

they're not conflating it. Exactly. There's space for that. There isn't for the women, which is my point. Because if you objectify the women, then the game itself is going to take a back seat. Yep. Whereas if you objectify, if the men, it's just part of the package with the men, Whereas with the women, it will become the entire thing.

And by the way, there are leagues where there's, you know, have you seen the Big Butt Basketball League? I have never heard of that. Oh, you guys have never seen the big butt. But isn't there something with flag football where the women are dressed like that? That's, that's, that's, um, it's not flag football. That's, uh, it's, it's not flag. They're tackling.

That's, uh, the Laundre Football League. Laundre Football League, yeah, yeah. They'd be hitting out there in the Laundre Football League. They'd be actually, like, hitting. But you haven't seen the Big But Basketball League? That's what Shack was talking about with these ones, W&BA to be in. You haven't seen, y'all haven't seen this? I've never saw the lady.

They haven't been like tiny gyms. It feels like maybe super proud of it. Y'all never saw a lady. I'm not laughing at it. Buns and basketball. That's what it's called. I typed in Big Butt basketball, sadly, because that's... Is that what it's called?

No, that's a song. No. Wait a minute. This is not... It's never funny to laugh at injuries, ever. Y'all never saw the lady playing in the big butt basketball league that blew her knee out? Like, how do y'all not?

Different algorithms. What you're trying to say about my algorithm? I say what I said. Donnie, y'all play a clip. You got to play the clip for the people watching right now of the lady from the big butt basketball league. blowing her knee out. Are you watching it now, Donnie?

Oh, yes. It's twisted. It's twisted. Oh, no. Send it to the group. Wait a second. By the way, it's not funny, but it's... This is a horrible video.

Maybe she shouldn't have been playing in the league because the basketball league was whatever. But this is a thing. So if Shaq wants that, let's let the WNBA ladies. We're not even going to talk about Lauren the Rim. because we've been talking about that at nauseam for such a long time.

They're not lowering the room. It's fine. The league is. If Shaq wants that, there's a product out there for Shaq in the BitBubb Basketball League. Basketball and Buns. Okay, so you can go get that. There's that out there for them. Oh, my God.

Let's not even talk about the injury. Let's talk about this. Oh, gosh. I couldn't. Okay, forget the injury. That looks terrible, by the way. I hate watching people get injured. Right.

I don't know what's going to look like that. They're not, it's not buns in basketball. What? It's not, that is not the game of basketball. I watched her dribble up to half court. Yeah. Two-handed. Traveling.

It's not buns and basketball. It's big butt basketball. They're playing big butt basketball. It's buns and there is a basketball. That's what that is. It's a BBL basketball league. That is, like, that's. It has a market.

Sure it does. It has a market. Let me ask you a question. If we put you right now in that league, how many points you think you could. score on them ladies. 100. I'd be holding up.

I'd be holding up to sign. It said, 100. You gotta be kidding me. So we have, men are going to be men, but we have to make sure, guys, that we don't pigeonhole things

and that we're coming across in the best possible way. The ladies in the WNBA are some of the most skilled athletes in the world. And there's no amount of marketing that exists where they should have to sell their sexuality in order to get guys to watch. I did my best devil's advocate approach in this.

But the reality is, Shaq is, he's operating on the old operating system. But I will say this, I do not think he was flirting with Andrews. I don't think he was flirting with her, but he definitely sexualized her. to her face. I will agree.

I do not think that he was flirting with Angel Reese or trying to get at Angel Reese or trying to, I don't think he was doing that. I do think he was acting like, like, they had some dirty old man vibes to it, but I do not think that he was flirting

or trying to. Yeah, not at all. I think he's wondering, you can use what you got to get what you want. I don't think, I don't think, I don't think he was doing it, but whatever. All right, before we go, Dwayne Wade's statue.

We got to stop. I think they have to stop making statues of black people. It's a black name. Somebody else just recently had a statue and it was so inappropriate. Yeah. It was so, like, they don't. And it's like, if you're going to do it,

let's do it with a mouth closed. Let's have like a more, I mean, I know what they were trying to recreate, but no, he looks like a monster. Does it change it to you that Dwayne, Wade saw this statue while they were making it, and he seemingly is on board with it. I'll answer it with the question. How do you stop the process? Right? Did he see a drawing? No. Was it at the beginning, or was it already, it was it already there? Part of this that people are

looking at is the face. Yeah. There's a picture of Duane Wade looking at the face of the statue being made. nah. And it's like you were fucking with it. He also said it's one of the most beautiful statues ever created.

Well, I mean, what is it? What else is he gonna say? He got his own statue in front of an arena. Like, of course he's going to say those things. I would imagine that I haven't seen the pictures,

so I'm speculating here, but I would imagine that either two things happen. One, the face wasn't completed and he just hoped that it would be something better the final product or two, it was already,

already so far along, what was he going to do? Tell them to start over and stop it again. I don't know. I don't even know if you really have an input. Oh, it was Alan Iverson. It was Alan Iverson statue that also I feel like they got wrong. They almost always get them wrong. For us.

But only for black. Okay, we'd have to look. Okay, let's do this. We got to let's, let's, maybe next episode, we can look at some different statues, white people, black people. But I feel like I see a lot of statues and I almost never see, because also like wax figures, I almost never see

statues that get in right. Oh, they're messing up our wax. Remember Michael B. Jordan? Yeah. Yeah, they mess up. They mess up. All right. We need somebody black

in the statue wax figure arena. Yeah. To be able to get it right. Give them a chance. We're out of here, guys. A lot of show. Thank you to Roy Wood Jr. for joining us today.

Getting close to the election, guys. Have you voted yet? I have not voted you? I haven't either. I really was like, oh my gosh, it's next week. I haven't decided what I'm voting for yet. So I got to wait. Okay, Anna Marie.

I can't believe you say that name. I can't believe you'd even bring that name up right now. It's like Voldemort mentioned it in that name. Love you. I'll take the thing caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathen Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. I know what I'm voting for.

Kamala Harris. Bye, guys.