Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - MAGA Regrets, Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Apology, and Pharrell’s Philosophy

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Van and Rachel react to fractures in the MAGA movement, give a rating for Marjorie Taylor Greene’s apology, and get into the Epstein brothers' correspondence about Trump “blowing Bubba.” Plus, Michelle Obama talks about America’s readiness for a woman president, Pharrell shares his dislike of politics, and Eric Adams goes to Israel. (0:00) Black women in pop and hip-hop (19:16) MAGA regrets (45:23) Marjorie Taylor Greene’s apology (50:55) Trump and Bubba (56:15) Michelle Obama on a woman president (1:10:40) Pharrell and politics (1:34:04) Eric Adams in Israel Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Video Supervision: Chris Thomas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? I learned is on as Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. I ride for Sabrina Carpenter. Did you go last night? No. I was supposed to.

I couldn't. Listen to my voice. She's going to do something and we're going to have to like not like her. What makes you like her so much? What do you do? Like the music? She's a little toxic-ass troublemaker. Why?

I fuck with that. I listen to that record taste this morning. Okay. I like when you in your pop girl era. I'm in my pop girl era, man. Sabrina Carpenter to a little fucking, she was telling that chick, that shit you could do, this motherfucker,

he loves me. You always gonna be tasting me. And I'm like, well, this little toxic-ass gangster. Music is good. Toxic gangster little cupcake gangster. That's her nickname. She's like a little strawberry shortcake.

A little strawberry shortcake gangsta. What's your little gangster ass? What you're talking about? I like it too, because I, just feel like the way she's very, you know, confident and sexual with her lyrics and even like the innuendos in her performance. I actually appreciate like the type of space that she takes up in pop culture music. And I feel like maybe a few years ago she couldn't do that even with her second album, The Man Child. Some people try to see it's like on her hands and knees and

there's a man pulling her, pulling her hair. That's not from this record? That's not from this. That's not this one. That's what I said. This new album is the Man Child. Yeah. I just love that she's able to be that type of artist. I'm upset. I did not get to go to her concert last night. She was here at Crypto. I've thoughts about this. We have a great crop of young black pop girlies.

Black pop girlies. Well, for the last couple of years, right? You had Normani. You had Chloe Bailey. You had Coco Jones. You have a lot of young black. You consider them pop. They're armed

Pop. But is R&B popped together. I want people to do something real quick. Free the black pop girlies. And let me tell you what I mean. Free them. So the Sabrina Carpenters, the Chappellons,

the Tate McCraise, they are very free to come out and push cultural limits, be hyper sexy, be right in your face and do all of that stuff. And the music ends up ballooning into all of these things that are a little bit controversial and just what pop people have been. I feel like sometimes we hold our black girlies back.

Is it us or is it the industry? I think it's us because when they get a little too sexy, when they get a little bit too controversial, we kind of put them in a little church girl box a little bit. and we don't, at least for them, like it, it, it, it, Rihanna got there and, you know, Beyonce got there. Beyonce actually kind of broke out of the mold in her 30s, but let the black pop girlies be as controversial and envelope pushing as everyone else. So we're not looking at them and judging their music and judging who they are about whether or not these are women that we will want to take home to mom or whether or not they're not being to anything. Let them have a little bit of the controversy. I feel like we got them a little bit. I do not think that at all.

I think if anything, it's the industry that, if you told me the industry stopped it, but our own community stopping them, I do not agree. Because we know it's acceptable for women rappers, right? Women and rappers are able to be as explicit and as sexual in their lyrics, in their outfits, in their performances.

And nobody says, I mean, people say something. There's always going to be blue. say something, but it hasn't stopped them from pursuing their career. If you look at the pop girl, he's like a Kalani, Kalani, or a Tyler, these people,

nobody's stopping them. Oh, I can't say Tyler. Tyler was definitely stopped. Tyler was stopped because she couldn't identify herself. This is kind of what I'm talking about. But nobody's making her a church girl. Nobody's telling her she can't be

sexual in her. They got on to her for a cultural reason. But that's part of it. Right? Look, we got on Tyler too. I got on Tyler. Here's a deal. That's the thing.

That's actually part of what I'm talking about. It's not just that they can't push the envelope in terms of their sexuality or whatever. I'm talking about there's a lot of needles that these young women have to thread. It definitely happened with Kalani, like all kinds of stuff. And I think sometimes some of the ways that we protect each other, the rap thing is different. I'll tell you why. There's an advantage that the sexualized rap girl has,

that the sexualized pop girl doesn't have. The sexualized rap girl is existing in a space where the music has to be so overly aggressive and so to the point that you can't even be a nice girl in rap. They don't want to. that. And another thing is the bodacious way that these women are built sometimes

the men just like to look at them. They are outwardly objectified. But in rap there's that's palatable. Like all of that stuff is almost overdone in rap. In pop there seems to be an expectation of some of these younger women of if not chastity.

I don't even know how to really describe what it is and I'm saying. There's a perfection. It's not even one thing. There's a perfection. That you think comes from our community. Yeah. There's a, there's a, there's a, this is what I'm saying. When sometimes when we expect you to be a nice girl,

when we expect you to be polished, there's a standard that can sometimes be suffocating. The best, to your point, the only example that I can truly think of that happening where they were, this expectation that as a pop girl, you needed to be this kind of way from a black artist from our community is Chloe Bailey. Because of how she came on the scene, and we talked about it here. We were like, leave Chloe Bailey alone because of how we saw her grow up with her sister and they're, you know, harmonizing and seeing these songs. And there was no, there was no transition. It was boom. We woke up one day. Actually, she was doing it on social media first and then boom. All of a sudden, And we have her licking things and dressing a certain way and dancing a certain way and crying.

And it was like, oh, this is the artist that she wants to be. And people couldn't handle that. That was the most like overt thing that I saw within the pop girl, black pop girl thing. I don't see that with the other. Siza, Doja Cat, Kalani, Normani. Who else did I just say? Doja Cat, definitely. Doja Cat.

Tyler. Doja Cat is so It's so interesting that you would bring up Doja Cat They tried it with Doja Cat They tried to other Doja Cat out of the culture But why? Because she has too many white fans But or is it because of all the stuff

that she was doing before? There's something that she was doing Look, I'm not saying that we haven't had conversations that were needed to be had I'm not saying that What I'm saying is the reason why Doja Cat did not get othered out is because the music is really good,

which we haven't talked about that. But also, she has a lot of white fans. And those fans were like, oh, you know, fuck it. Y'all don't fuck with her. We'll fuck with her, right? This is my deal. The archetype of the young pop star, the young pop lady,

there's a lot of talent out there. I'll say again, these ladies got to be able to push the envelope a little bit. They got to be able to offend us a little bit. They got to be able to do all of this stuff a little bit. And I just, to me, I think they do. But I don't think what, okay, tell me, who are the young pop ladies? And remember when you talk about Cizan and Colani, these are people that have been around for like 10 years.

Okay, Normani. Normani, when Normani performs. I know, but Normandy, but they're not, they're not responding to Normandy in the same way. Nomani does something. Is that us or is that Normani? Like, let's just be honest. Is that us or is that there was a lot of hype with Normani? A lot of hype.

She was everywhere where there was in a music video dancing with someone on a red car. Like there was so much and then when the music came out I just think it just didn't hit it didn't need them.

Is Tame McCraise music like that? They have a different neck. I'm just saying though it's like there's a part of this that what I'm trying to say is that they glorify mediocrity in a way that necessarily What I'm saying is we gotta

this is my only point. We got to let the young black pop girlies have some fun. And I don't think that we let them have the rap ladies, we let them, that is, I'm talking about fun,

the rap ladies, yeah, you're right, that's a sound point. But even them, because their music is not at all hot. Can I say this? Like the rap girls that you're talking about,

they're all fun. Because if I'm being honest, a lot of the music that's coming from a lot of these, a lot of these rap ladies that are celebrities, this music sucks. Can I say this though? I think, biggest thing with what you're saying is that you make it seem as if the black community is holding them back. This is where I disagree with you.

Not the black community is a cultural thing. I feel like they're cultural change on young black women. I think it is white people. And I think that white people are willing to accept the Meg the Stallions and the Cardi Bs and them putting themselves out there in that way more than they are the people who aren't as sexual. Because there's the stereotype of what historically black women have been. her a white person with an opinion on Chloe Bailey. What are you talking about? You're not listening to me. I said, that's my point, is that the other ones, they are willing to accept the rap music from black women because it fits into a stereotype

in the way that they perform, in the way that they sexualize themselves that they're okay with. My argument is that it's not us, it is the industry, it is the others. When it comes to the pop stars, they aren't necessarily as much that way, and I don't think that they're as into their music

because they're okay accepting a black woman who sexualizes herself or fits into their idea of what black women are versus a Normani who is still, you know, she's very confident and she's sexual but not as to a level as a Megastayan.

I don't think they support it as much. But you're, you're, this, this argument is inconsistent. We talked about the response that, we talked about the response that we have, as a community to Chloe Bailey. Like, Chloe Bailey, like... I said that's the only example I can give you.

Okay, but... To me, I have more. So I'm not contradicting myself. I just gave you one. When Normani, well, you're contradicting yourself insofar as you're saying that it's white people who won't allow these women to express their sexuality and stuff like that.

That's been my whole argument is that it's not the black community holding pop stars back. It's the industry. It's white people. That's been my whole argument. Right, you can disagree, but I'm not being inconsistent.

You are, and let me tell you why. So what we talked about, when we talked about, you said, so when you said that Chloe Bailey came out and that she was licking ice cream cones and doing all of that, you're saying that that was too much for white people? No, I was saying to your point, Chloe is the only artist as a black pop star that I see that. I don't agree with that with the rest of them.

I was giving you Chloe. Okay, so let me tell you why I do see it. And it's not just necessarily in one specific thing. What I do see, though, is that there being this entire sort of range and spectrum of young white pop stars that are out there. Chaparroin being able to be this sort of gender bending, like, androgynous really pushing the limit. Would an artist like that be accepted amongst the black community? no they wouldn't they would not accept that artist they wouldn't accept it like they they they would accept that artist in other places right to your point

when thug first comes out and it's all like this thug does that and thug could get it rap is uh they might accept it after a while and they try not to they tried to do that with him they might accept it with uh with oozy right after a while they might accept it there but the black, the young black lady pop star, they want them to me to be a little cookie cutter. It's particularly in like a Beyonce, Rihanna world. Like Rihanna got there after evolving into, okay, good girl, gone bad, like years and years and years.

The ladies that are coming up behind them, I just see, I don't know what it is that we want from them, but it does seem like there is sort of a way that we we want them to be. Now, and this is across, this is in all the different types of ways that these types of artists exist. It's not just their chastity. It's their, their, their freeness, their, I don't give a fuckness, all of this stuff. It's, and they kind of try to exist in these lines as well. Like, we have the conversation.

with Tyler, we can't really have the conversation with Tyler and let Tyler speak for herself. Like Tyler does that thing. She fucks it up. And then the people behind her in the breakfast club interview, they take over and they go, ah, we don't want to talk about that anymore. No, supposed to challenge you a little bit. You're supposed to even Chaparrowing.

Chaparrowing came out and pissed her fans off. She pissed them off. She's supposed to be a little dangerous. She's supposed to be a little dangerous. Sabrina Carpenter comes out, pisses her fan off. It's supposed to be a little dangerous. supposed to fuck with you a little bit. I just my personal opinion,

and I definitely don't think, I think a part of these people, the white community doesn't even have an opinion on. Like, I don't think the white opinion, I don't think white people have an opinion on Coco Jones or, or Chloe Bailey.

Yes, I completely agree with you. So I don't think it has anything to do with them. There's not an artist out there to me, rap or pop. That does not have to be accepted by black, audiences first. There's not a white artist. A black artist.

There's not a black artist out there that may be country, maybe like Shibuzi, right, that you have to be accepted by black audiences first. You have to be 24-terat gold with black audiences. 24-terat gold. Donald Glover, maybe not, with black audiences. And then they go, oh, okay, we'll make you into a thing. If the industry, the white industry or whatever, does not see, a total acceptance from black audiences for a black act.

I mean, there's several people. You named Donald. You could say that about Tyler. When he first started out, that wasn't black people like gave the okay? It definitely was. It was black people and white people, but it definitely was,

that was hip-hop. So it definitely was. It, anybody... I don't know a lot of black people they would bump an odd future like that. But you weren't around. You said yourself. I said I wasn't as a fan,

but it's not like I didn't know who he was, but I didn't have, I wasn't in my friend groups, because it's not like I'm not around black people, nobody was talking about odd future like that. It was white people who I would hear talk about Tyler, but I mean, I just don't think that it was the black people

that gave the okay for Tyler to, but whatever, you disagree. I'm like, I'm gonna be real with you. When, because Frank Ocean comes out of that crew. Frank Ocean, I didn't name him. Well, he's our future. No, I mean, like,

I think black. Black people, yes, can you okay for them? Okay, so let's, our future is Tyler. Our future is Sid and the internet comes out of our future later. There's all kinds of people that were Tyler. Earl. All of those people. I'm not saying that they did not have the multiracial coalition of the white skater kids and all of that.

They did. But that would not matter. None of that would matter if black people weren't fucking with it. Like none of that. Like none of that would matter if black people weren't fucking with it. would matter if black people weren't fucking with it. Because the last thing I said, we spent too much time on this. But like the authenticity of a black act is in its connection to black people.

And when these white executives are, and this is in movies too, when these white executives are looking at who they put their money behind, they're looking at who's real. They're looking at who they know. That's why the drill thing became about which artists had killed the most people actually. Because they go into places in Chicago and Jacksonville and Brooklyn. and the Bronx and all of that stuff like that and they're going, okay, who are the realest fucking shooters

that we know, okay, we're going to put some money behind them and all of that stuff. All I'm saying is there is a responsibility, a specific responsibility culturally, that black people have to nurture not only the inventiveness of the acts that we support, but also let them be acts. Like, don't give Tyler a pass culturally,

but I do feel like I was probably too hard on her and I didn't have an understanding of South African culture and all of that when she said that. I also think that she should have been more willing to have the conversation about how that was going to reflect to us. 100%.

But they did her. They did her. They did Tyler. Because they feel like she did them. Exactly. And all I'm saying is in this situation when I see the taste record, I feel like that record

actually makes more sense for young. black lady to sing. When I hear that record, but I'm wondering if Taste, the song by Sabrina Carpenter, where she's talking all of that shit, if that was a young black lady, if that was a Normani record, they wouldn't even accept that.

They wouldn't accept that. Niggas would be going crazy. This was wrong with black women and all of that stuff like that. We can agree to disagree. There you go. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling?

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Yeah. The, uh, more than the shit is, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. No, he's talking to Donnie, not you. Hey, Donnie, you know what? Nobody asked you to yell at us. Okay, what the fuck is going on? What's going on with you right now?

All right, let me take it down. He's excited. The more that the shit hits the fan across the country, MAGA voters continue to express their regret. Let's hear from Reverend Jordan Wells, formerly known as the Black MAGA preacher who had this to say. doing this is going to be a little longer video but i made a decision today that i am done i'm i'll change my name from the black maga preacher to um reverend jordan wells which is what i am a reverend

and my name is jordan wells um i had to because as a christian that is what led me into politics i was a pastor i was not thinking about politics It had no interest in it at all. And it's my fate that led me into politics. And I'm still in politics. I have to fight for this country like Dietrich Bonhofer did, even though Tucker attacked him. To the very last inch of this country,

I will fight for conservatism. But the new right in our that is trying to take over the Republican Party in the MAGA movement, the America First movement, I can't get with. as a black African-American man it's apparent that I'm not welcome in that that stream. Now, most Republicans aren't like this, right?

I have a lot of support, but their voices are getting louder and louder. The Nick Fuentes, these are racist. I am black. I can't support. You have the guy who's over the Remussewing polls. He was commenting on a pose. And it said he's a white.

He's an American supremacist. he leads to conservatives with polls. That is not attracted to African Americans or minorities. Oh, what? Has you so tickled about what he just said? He's the conservatives with polls. Was he talking about the Rasputin' pool? What did he call it, Ramsey?

I'm not dissing this man as far as the way he speaks. You are. Hold on, I swear to God, bro. Thank you, Donnie. There were a couple of times we looked up I think he missed it. This man said as unintelligible as I was in the first segment that me and Rachel just had, I'm not dissing the way this man speak.

Don't know. This man said, this man said, he leaves the conservatives with polls. He is incredulous about it. I can't believe the one that does the Rasmussen poll. He leads the conservatives with polls. Is the man finished, Donnie? is a man There's three minutes of this

but this is like the gist of what he had to say but there's more this man cannot believe that someone as prestigious as the whole

is the racerous I I Donnie are you okay? I'm I'm not quite finding it as funny but

wait a minute hold on I'm sorry to the audience. I'm sorry. When I get tickled his heart, can I have a paper towel? He's sweating. Zaddy, rewind it back and let me see if I can

I can somewhat find the humor. Hold on. He is so, that's a prince too far for him. Put your hat back on. Remus so imposed. He was commenting on. There it is.

That's not, okay. All right. I'm sorry. You are laughing at that man. I'm not laughing at the way that man talks. That black maga preacher. I'm not. But it's just funny of all the people that it was too much. He can't believe he leads to conservatives with polls.

Not him. Not the Rasmussen poll guy, Rachel. He leaves the conservatives with polls. That's it. That's going to be. That's in the show forever. Every time somebody is too, he leaves him to conservatives with polls. Yeah.

Who is this, nigga? The Black Maga Preacher. But it doesn't go by that now, formally, Reverend Jordan Wells. Reverend Jordan Wells. Reverend Jordan Wells. Okay. Okay, look, there's a lot of people I feel this way now. There's a lot of, I'm seeing this online a lot.

Well, we've been seeing it really since Trump's Oak Office his entire second term. Like, once Doge got involved and started making all those cuts to the federal government, people were losing their jobs, immigration, you know, all the things in leading up to now. Go ahead. Get a little bit more. No, I'm fine. Get a little bit more. I promise. With the SNAP benefits and now health care looming over everybody, people have been having regress.

And to all those people, to the black mag of preacher, which I really could care less about Reverend Jordan Wells, I don't care if he has a Reverend in front of his name. Where have you been? Where have you been? And the problem with people like Reverend Jordan Wells is he took pride in being black and maga. He thought that that won him favor with white people. He thought that that made him popular. It gave him a social media presence. I doubt it filled any pews in his church.

But it gave him the attention that he was looking for. And now that Trump is becoming increasingly unpopular. And it is affecting probably him and maybe some of his congregation. He wants to change his tune. And he is getting popular. look, I never knew about Jordan Wells until today. I'm not even going to call him a Reverend. Because for you to vote in favor of Trump, not only in favor of Trump, but to name yourself

a black maga preacher, there's nothing Reverend, godly about that. It's just a name for you looking them up? Yeah. From overdosing on K2 to preaching Jesus. He overdosed. So, wait, no, no, no, no, no. Is that a headline? Yeah.

He overdosed saw a demon step by his TV and heard the audible voice of God. He was trapped in addiction. Same sex attraction. He was trapped. Oh, I've seen this guy before. He was trapped in the demon of same sex attraction. I don't, we shouldn't even be talking about this, man. How to torment demons with fire prayers.

Does the man have a church? Does the man have a congregation? He is the pastor of one. Jordan Wells. This is Jordan Wells University. the ministry. Let's not make this about him personally. Let's not do that. But make it about people like him. Okay. And what are people like him to you? And that's what I was talking about. He was more

concerned, as I said, about the title of naming himself Black Maga than anything else. Okay. And now that you're telling me all this other stuff, like these are the people that are behind the movement. These are the people who voted. These are the people who were putting out all this incorrect information. These are the people who got Trump elected. Read off his resume again. He, he, uh, he's, he's, he's been to the fire, uh, Jordan Wells. He's been through it. He was addicted to

K2. Um, he, he's the first institution that he leads to the first institution of its kind teaching the highest level of training on subjects like deliverance, prophecy, spiritual warfare, and much more. What you'll learn is life changing revelation taught to be a demon slayer.

Okay. I, I, I, I just want to let you guys know. There are several typos. I just... It's like taught be, taught by demon slayer and prophet Jordan Wells. There are several typos here. I cannot get on people for typos. I'm not on that.

He's a demon slayer. He's a self-proclaimed demon slayer. Yeah, okay. The fan is not living in our world. All right, let's try to make this into a bigger conversation if we can. Because we're going to get to the apology rating from Marjorie Taylor King in a second.

Let's get to, let's make this. Donnie, read the tweet that I sent you from the senator from Hawaii. Do you have that? He said, this is from Brian Shats. There are a lot of MAGA people online admitting that Trump is betraying them. And if you dunk on those people, you are very likely terrible at politics. Politics is about addition, not subtraction. Math.

So there is a method of thinking that says, there's a method of thinking that says this. And we're going to try to talk about. this holistically. That when someone is defecting, then you accept that defector and give them like a very soft bed to lay in during the Cold War. If you were a big time Russian KGB person, something like that, right? And you decided you wanted to defect. The United States more than welcome to take you.

takes you in, uses what expertise you have to their cause. There were, now they have to make sure you're not a spy. So there is a lot of work to be done. But there were doctors, there were engineers, there were nuclear scientists,

there were people in the arts, ballerinas, there were all types of people who defected from the Soviet Union over here. And they're kept on a short leash. They definitely are. they're watched you have to come and bear your soul

pledge allegiance and do all of that stuff but if you do that sufficiently they take you on and they make you a part of their political movement because they say it's better to have you in the fold than it is to have you working for the enemy

and some people including Senator de Shats say that defectors from MAGA out of MAGA should be treated the same way. Your thoughts. So as you were leading off that, reading off that list of all the things that those defectors were, you know, and how they can contribute, you forgot demon slayer, okay? Right.

You forgot demon slayer. So God forbid we forget the demon slayer and because we need him. We definitely need him on our team. This is, this is what I will say. I'm not talking about him specifically. No, no, no, no. But this is, this is what I will say. And I want Donnie to play the clip, the other clip that's in the rundown too. It's one thing to have regrets. It's another thing to be a defector where you are no longer saying, I support this person and I'm coming over here.

Because we're seeing both with when it comes to MAGA or even Republicans or conservatives that may have voted for Trump. They have regrets because the policy didn't match the rhetoric, right? we saw Trump is a populist or he preaches populism but doesn't act on populace. The polls. I was like, but you want to get mad at me, not mad of me, you want to get on to me. We're talking about him being a divest player. And you keep laughing at this man. You aren't calling this man in.

You aren't giving this man a softbeds. You're laughing at, you're pointing and you're laughing at him. You're right. I'm wrong. I'm with it. I'm with it. I'm with it. This man is a deceptica, this man is a clown.

But my point being is there's a difference between those people who say, I just regret because the policies have been detrimental to a lot of Americans. And the things that you're saying aren't the things that you're doing. And it's not really populism. It's more elitism. You're actually helping. You're supposed to be anti the establishment and everything that you're doing is for the establishment. But I'm still going to vote for you.

Donnie, play the other clip in this section. Meet Wilson Jones. He and his brother are sixth generation lumberman owners of Mackie's Ferry Sawmill in North Carolina. And they both voted for Donald Trump all three times. And because of the Trump tariffs, they had to shut down their family business of almost 40 years and lay off 50 workers. Now, whenever stories like this come out, there's only one question I wish reporters would ask. Knowing what you know now, would you still vote for Donald Trump? again. And this time they did. Watch.

Do you have any regrets about voting for it? There are some things I regret about voting for President Trump. Yes, 100%. Trade policy is one of them, even though that I wish he could have moderated his tone. Well, I understand you have to do one thing to get elected and then something else, but I wish it hadn't turned out that way. That being said, given to two people running regardless of what they said on the campaign trail, I would have voted for President Trump. I don't necessarily have regrets. I mean, it came out. that that's what he was going to fight for.

And knowingly, that would affect us probably because the only place to really ship a volume of lumber was either Vietnam or China. And so you know it's going to affect us. But outside of not voting, I don't think I had a choice to vote any other direction. Okay. So to Brian to Senator Schatz's point,

I am for the person who has said I was wrong, and now I'm going to come over because, or I'm against Trump. I'm against his policies, and I would not vote for him again. I'm against what the administration is doing. I am not for that. And I think that it's important to separate the two, specifically as we move into the Marjorie Taylor Green conversation. So I'm not against what he's saying.

I am against, I'm sorry, even if Jordan Wells is coming over to our side. I'm just against all of that, because that man is, is confused. But I agree with you with defectors that are fully denouncing it and are going to act

on the fact of their regrets and them denouncing. There are a lot of people who are just like that man, those two men that were just talking, who have regrets and don't like it.

But at the end of the day when given a choice, they're going to go right back and do it again because they are more motivated by voting for against our interest or other people's interests who don't look like them

or maybe not be similarly situated than they are in voting for their own interests. We're confusing things here. Maybe I am. Let me be crystal clear. So those guys represent a long understood phenomenon, right? The southern part of this country chose poverty. They chose poverty before black people having anything.

They chose policy and governance and all different types of social. structure that prioritized segregationalist exclusionary tactics that emmiserated and impoverished entire parts of the South because they did not want to live with a black person having anything. That is a part in Louisiana, Mississippi,

other places like that. It's a part of the central operating theory system that it doesn't matter how good our lives are. We have to have, it doesn't matter how good our lives are. Like our lives have to be just better than the life of the nigger. We actually judge our life by the immiseration of the nigger. If the, the nigger is poor, we don't have to be rich. We just have to be better than the nigger.

That is something that's existed. We're not even talking about those people, it's my point. Like these two people here who have been hurt by President Trump's policies who won't vote for the other side are people you can't even consider, right? What I am saying now is there's been a very solid 35 to 40 percent of Americans that just believe in Donald Trump, closer to 35, 35 to 40 percent of Americans. The erosion that happens above them is the thing that flips votes, flips elections. Just the person that is either a low information voter or believes the propaganda of the Trump administration. The person that said, hey, I voted for Obama, voted for Trump, voted for Biden, voted for Trump. Trump's back.

I believe in Trump, whatever. Those people that waffle back and forth, those are the people that change elections. And obviously they exist or what you wouldn't see is Biden winning and then Trump winning. Some of that is who comes out. Okay? Some of that is who comes out. But at the same time, obviously there are people that vote back and forth. The district change, county exchange, all that stuff.

But the erosion from the Trump diehard and loyalists is specifically important because that's what signals the end of the MAGA movement. And the end of the MAGA movement would be an interesting. political phenomenon, not talking about the people that, hey, I'm talking about the people that identify as MAGA, not I voted for Trump. That I am, we often think that I voted for Trump means that you are MAGA. And it does. It does. It means that you went along with that.

You want along with the boss. But there are people who are self-described members of the MAGA cult. Their life is MAGA, their higher resistance in MAGAS, all of that stuff, they're MAGA. They're MAGA to the core. what does it mean when those people start defecting? Now, I don't have the answer to this question. I think this answer is probably based upon what it is that you do. For us, we are podcasters, fake activists.

So that means that if we want to hold the line a little bit on that more, probably can. Probably doesn't matter, right? For somebody like a politician like chats or anyone else, well, they have to accept those people. And not only do they have to accept them, They have to court them. They have to use whatever in rows they have into those people,

whatever ends they have with those people, not in rows, whatever ends they have with those people, they have to get in to be able to talk to them, to be able to kind of pull away of the threads of MAGA and almost deprogram them. Somebody's got to do it. And the only thing that I'm interested in seeing this, because this guy is specifically talking about racism.

And it's interesting to me what they're going. grubertization of the Republican Party is, is exposing. There was a soft racism, a DEI racism that some of these people were willing to accept. An anti-D-E-I, anti-CRT, like blah, blah, blah, racism that some of these people were willing to accept. A racism that can be intellectualized. But there is still a direct racism and a direct racism. and a direct anti-Semitism that bothers them, that's the part that fascinates me,

or at least they're acting like it bothers them. Like, Nick Fuentes and his influence on Republican politics has been in every way, in every way underestimated to me, in every way, every single thing that those text chats revealed, Gorperism. When you looked into the back and forth, the Civil War at the Heritage Foundation, between the older members of heritage and the younger members of heritage.

The younger members of heritage are holding on to an ideology that is directly connected to what you see from the Groyper's. The older ones actually have exposed themselves as very classic neocon Republicans that are existing, or the remnants, should I say, of the Bush-Cheney Republicans with a little bit of magnet. got sprinkled in. It's not that much different. Like, they don't have the stomach for as far as the, as much as the, the, the, the, the, the gropa version of the Republicans do. But as they take over, they're turning some people off. Some people are going, wait a minute now.

We all know that a nigger should stay in this place, but we shouldn't call him a nigger when he does it. We shouldn't do that. We shouldn't do it out loud. Well, for this black, because that's, that's how I feel. I, I agree with you. But for this black macabazz. he couldn't he couldn't take it when there was too much

prestige that came along with the Rasmus it's so silly he could take this the nigger that do the polls for the whole Republican Party I can't

he sounded like Cleveland from the Cleveland show I'm sorry dog this nigger tripping this nica said this knickles this nicks that's the

that's the nigger that do the polls for the whole thing he could not that's funny that's funny that was a bridge too far for him fuck all the other shit

he couldn't handle that the Rasmussen poll y'all know that those are the official polls and he was explaining to his people so all I'm saying is there is

there isn't interesting there's a and I see this with black people I see this with some white people do the issue a lot of times

is more about anti-Semitism it's more about America First policy it's a lot about the Epstein file but how you engage with those people is it's going to be interesting to see.

And it's going to be interesting to see if those people are engaged with any thought and strategy or if we engage them in just how vehemently we abhor them. Because when a person from the left defects to the right, they are treated like a king or a queen. They are brought in. They are gifted platform. They are gifted. If you're talking about like a Dave Rubin or whomever they are,

they are brought in and given the world. They're given intense reinforcement. Do you think it's easier to accept that type of person versus it is when the right wants to come over to the left? Because I guess it depends how far right you are. Well, I don't know if it's easier or not. I guess the question is if it's easier or harder, The question for me is who's making it easier or harder?

Yes, but I think what I'm saying is, is it's harder to accept maybe. And of course, I guess to answer your question, that falls on the person who has to do the accepting, right? And how they're going to accept them, right? Like, they might just say, okay, fine, this is, you're defecting, come on over. They're not treating you like a king or a queen. But I guess my point is, don't you think it seems harder to accept someone who might have been raised, Or misogynist or misogynist. You deny your humanity.

Yes. Yes. So it's harder to accept that person versus the Democrat who's like, actually, I actually believe in, you know, big business or policies that enrich my pockets or less taxes or, you know what I mean? Yeah. I think what we're doing a lot of times when we, I think for people on our side, I think there's a huge moral component and what makes you a progressive, right? I think there's a huge moral component in why you would give up more of your money, why I would be willing to pay a higher tax burden, right? Why I believe that if you make $3 million a year,

you should be paying like a 70% tax rate. Like that would affect people who I know and all of that stuff like that, but why I think that's important. Like why the humanist view of things that tends to be prevalent in left spaces, not center left spaces guys those are the same fucking corporatists that, but in more progressive spaces, it's difficult

to go from, to make a coalition with people that on Monday thought you weren't a human being and on Thursday are willing to listen to you. It's difficult. I will say this though. Maybe not us. Maybe not the people, somebody's got to do it.

No, no, you're not wrong. His tweet, Senator Schatz's tweet is not wrong. It's the whole call-in thing, right? It's the same thing that they talk about when it's religion, right? When you have the people who just want to shun you from the church because they don't agree with you like you or your lifestyle or whatever may be, rather than saying, come one, come all, come as you are, because that's going to be more of an inviting message

that might get you to turn away from what it is that you're doing and bringing you into what it is that I believe if I'm more welcoming to that. I understand that. I understand it. Marjor Taylor Green. Yeah, she was on CNN yesterday. She spoke about, she addressed, I should say, the animosity between herself and President Trump saying that it mostly came down to the Epstein files. But she also apologized for taking part in toxic politics.

Let's get an apology rating after we hear what she said. I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country. And it's been something I've thought about a lot, especially since Charlie Kirk was assassinated, is that I'm only responsible for myself and my own words and actions, and I am committed, and I've been working on this a lot lately to put down the knives and politics. I really just want to see people be kind to one another. And we need to figure out a new path forward that is focused on the American people,

because as Americans, no matter what side of the aisle we're on, we have far more in common than we have differences. And we need to be able to respect each other with our disagreements. I'm not rating it. I don't give a shit about what Marjorie Taylor Green has to say right now. I don't. And I think that what is happening with the media and how they're responding to Marjorie Taylor King, as you would say, just shows how ridiculous a lot of us are. If you can't see what she's doing and why she's doing it,

I didn't even need AOC to come out and tell us that Trump had denied her of being able to run for Senate, and so she's fighting against the establishment. I didn't even need that because what is lacking from what Marjorie Taylor Green is doing, and first off, let me point out two things. When she went on the view, hated her appearance going on the view. She went on the view.

She said everybody keeps saying Marjorie Taylor Green has changed. And she said, oh, nothing has changed about me. Nobody's talking about that. Two, she said she still agrees with the Trump administration and Trump's policies. That's two. Three, she says that she has the most conservative voting record in Congress, and she's very proud of that. Y'all aren't listening to what she's saying. So I'm not rating her apology because there isn't one.

I really could give two shits about Marjorie Taylor Green. It's great that she's saying that we need health care that is affordable in this country. She's right, right? Conservatives can be right. People in MAGA can be right at times. That doesn't mean that they are reformed. It doesn't mean that they have completely changed. What I have yet to see Marjorie Taylor Green do is be accountable.

She wants to get on here and say, we all need to come together and then all the toxic and dangerous rhetoric. To what I would say to that is somebody should be saying, and what specifically are you apologizing to? Have you apologized for being an election denier? Have you apologized for all that came with that and the people that were impacted with that in the lives? Are you apologizing for wanting to pardon them? Are you apologizing for going to, what was it called, America First political action conference where you shook hands and grinned and on stage with Nick Fuentes? Are you apologizing for aligning yourself with a person who believes such hateful things, which we've talked about on this podcast? No, you've yet to do any of those things. And when she

was pressed by it, she said, oh, my God, I was unaware. Well, what did Nick Fuentes come back out and say to Tucker Carlson? She knew exactly who I was. She knew exactly what it is she's doing. I need Marjorie Taylor Green to specifically address the things that she's calling toxic. And if you truly are against ending all the toxic and dangerous rhetoric, how can you continue to say that you support Donald Trump? When Donald Trump literally, when asked about how he feels the fact that you were being threatened with hoax pizzas and pipe bomb threats and all of these things and your life being endangered, He said, nobody cares about her.

He called you Marjorie Trader Green and said nobody cares about her. Yet you still want to align yourself with someone who continues to spew out a dangerous and toxic rhetoric. And you support his policies and his administration. But you want to apologize for it at the same time. Make it make sense. What makes sense is that she is not a changed person. She is exactly who we thought she was. She just believes in health care.

It should be affordable. and she wants the Epstein files released. A lot of people do. That's it. That's it. That's who she is. So it's a zero, it's a non-radiens, it's N-A. Yeah, my first ever.

Your first ever N-A. Fucking with it. That first ever N-A. What do we have to do? We have to give you some layups on the apology rating. We have to give you some. You can't start with this one. Can't start with this one.

I feel like a lot of people feel this way. I think Marjorie Taylor Green, if she really wants the moniker, that she's going to have to do a lot more to convince people that her worldview has changed and not just her political alliances. Yeah. I think that's all very fair. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling?

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies.

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Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order. Sweetgreen.com. Before we get off of the Trump world, I do want to talk about something that happened that people have been discussing for the last couple of days.

Donnie? Talking about Bubba. Yeah. Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein. So this goes back to a conversation from March 2018, a back and forth between Jeffrey and Mark Epstein. In that exchange, Mark and Jeffrey,

who had written earlier that he was with former Trump advisor, Steve Bannon, he wrote that he should ask him if Putin has the photos of Trump blowing Bubba. Now, Bubba is a nickname for Bill Clinton, so they have people raising questions and eyebrows raised. And, yeah, let's talk about Bubba. So, Epstein says, Mark Epstein says, they were simply part of a humorous private exchange between two brothers

and were never meant for public release or to be interpreted as serious remarks. But the voids of doubt, the reference to Bubba in this correspondence is not in any way a reference to former President Bill Clinton. Yeah. You were into this story. I choose to believe that Donald Trump sucked Bill Clinton's dick. Why do you choose to believe that? Why choose to believe?

Because it's more fun to believe that? No, so I choose to believe that. So you guys can say whatever you want to say. All right, it's all alleged, alleged, alleged, alleged, alleged, alleged. The Magorite has chosen to believe that your plane is in danger of falling out of the sky if a black woman is the pilot. The Magalite has chosen to believe that a black person cannot be duly elected as the mayor of a city. Without DEI being involved, the MAGA Wright has chosen to believe so many different things. And I choose to believe that Donald Trump sucked Bill Clinton's dick.

And that is my choice. And I can't be counseled for it. I can't be admonished for it. I don't want anyone in any way denying my free speech, my free thought, as Kanye West said. to believe that Donald Trump sucked Bill Clinton's dick. And I don't think in my choice, allegedly, it didn't happen once. It happened several different times in several different locales. Wait, that is in the email or that is what you're choosing to believe.

I'm choosing to believe that Donald Trump sucked Bill Clinton's dick in Vegas, that he sucked Bill Clinton's dick in Trump Tower, that they had a Key West interlude that may be in Abu Dhabi. happened, all different types of places, that there were quickies, that there were long, long, long sessions, that sometimes it was just jacking off. Sometimes they were both shirtless and Trump. I'm choosing to believe that this is one of the greatest love stories of our times. And I'm saying right now, I support that shit.

A lot of people were like, yo, y'all are being homophobic. No, we're being interested. And there's a difference. No one has said that this was wrong. No one has said that this is something that shouldn't have happened. But what I am choosing to believe is that this happened. And I'm not going to let Mark Epstein or anybody else subtract from what I believe is one of the enduring relationships in American politics, which is the sexual relationship. Sex between Donald Trump and Bill Clinton.

And I'll tell you something else. Last thing I'll say about it. Bill never reciprocated. As in he never blew Trump? Never happened. Wouldn't do that. This was a one-way relationship. We've all had them.

I know a lot of things out there. We all have them. And this was Donald Trump just gratifying bubble. We saw the picture. We saw the little pat-pat. Look, hey, man. Look. Hey, hey, man.

Hey. It's cool. Wow. I wasn't nearly as interested in this story as you were. But I know a lot of people were. And I'm happy that you had the opportunity to express how you feel about it. I'm happy that you are choosing to believe what you want to believe and not letting other people dictate that for you. I'm happy for you. You are free to do that. I saw you post the video on there. I know it was AI. Part of it was. Part of it was real.

The photograph was real. And they say the first three seconds of the video are real. So the pat in the front was real. And then we just patted more because even if that didn't happen, that's what he wanted to happen. That's what I choose to believe. And I choose to believe. And I have nothing to say to add to that. Thank you very much.

You're welcome. You're welcome. No, people are not going to take my choice away. That's right. People, like for a long time, I'm not going to be canceled for it. That's right. Can't be canceled for it. That's what I'm choosing to believe.

What is Michelle Obama talking about? Yeah, she's promoting a new book that just was released called Look, and she had this to have the people talking. You stepped into a role that carried a preconceived idea of femininity and wifedom that was founded on the landmines of racism and misogyny. What the First Lady wears is one of the main ways, which you've already said, that a First Lady has talked about. It comes with so much historical expectation. How do you feel about the fact that the First Lady is an archetype for wifedom and femininity? Yeah, I don't agree with that. Don't agree with that.

It's, you know, it is a completely throwback on, it's a definition that has no current status in how women actually show up in the world today. Do you think that that impacts the room that we've made for a woman to be president? Well, as we saw in this past election, sadly, we ain't ready. That's why I'm like, don't even look at me about running because you all are lying. You're not ready for a woman. You are not. So don't waste my time. You know, we got a lot of growing up to do.

And there's still, I'm sadly, a lot of men who do not feel like they can be led by a woman and we saw it. I love her. You love Michelle Obama. I really did. I really do listen we talked about this right after the election

we talked about Kamala Harris and since then we can talk about mistakes that were made in the way that she was campaign and things that it could have been done

differently and she wrote an entire book on it but one of the conversations or the main conversation we had right after the election is that people will jump through

the people who voted for Trump a lot of them will jump through do all these mental gymnastics in order to not vote for a black Indian woman. I mean, one of the clips that we played where the two people were talking about how it was affecting their business, but if they, if they, and their well-being, but if they were given the same choices that they were given before, they'd still vote for Trump, no matter what is happening to them economically. If you listen to that clip even further, that's, I think,

yeah, we cut it off. That's what they had to say. That's really the gist of it. If you, if your choice was Trump and he's all the things that he is and you know that, and I don't have to do the laundry list. And I'm not even talking about him being convicted and all those things. I'm talking about who he is, what he represents, and even what his policies were when it came to Project 2025 and him acting like he didn't know what it was. You chose to ignore all of that in order to not vote for Kamala Harris. And I would have confirmation. with men who just could not deal with, and even women, let me not just say men, men and women in this country, who could not see a woman leading them. Whether it was a woman, whether it was because she was black, whether it was because she was Indian, they couldn't get past it.

So they would rather vote for somebody who has no moral values whatsoever just to avoid voting for somebody who looks a certain way or who comes from a certain background. And that's just really it. Michelle Obama is not wrong. As beloved as she is, as much as people love her husband, they still at the end of the day could not see themselves being led by a woman. So you don't think that Michelle Obama could win in a general election as president. No. Even if it wasn't Trump.

Even if it wasn't Trump. So Michelle Obama couldn't beat Ron DeSantis in a general. I do not think so. So I think a couple of things. Well, whether she's right or wrong to me doesn't even matter. Because it's sort of a vague thing to litigate. You kind of don't know. But we do, from what we saw, I think, from this last election.

Maybe. Perhaps. I don't think that there was a... If you gun to my head, she's right. I would say that she's right, right? And it seems obvious that she's right, being that Trump, who's a bad candidate lost to,

excuse me, beat both Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris. And if we just look at those factors on their face, gun to my head, she's right. The reason why I, him and Haw, is because of two reasons. One, entrenched, misogyny. And then the second one is because you just can't wait until America's ready.

America's never ready. You've never, America has never been like, okay, we're ready for this, ever. The only way that any group of people that is not a part of the white male orthodoxy of America has gotten what they've wanted from the country

is by taking it or by the mixture of excellence and circumstance. If people remember Barack Obama from 2008, you remember him for running one of the best campaigns in American political history. And you remember everything that they got right, right?

But you also have to remember where the country was, right? You have to remember the Iraq War and people looking around and being like, a lot of people that were involved in this and there are a lot of people that have been a part of the American political dynasty or the American political establishment for a long time. And there's one guy who's pretty relatively new. You have to look at the financial collapse and the disarray of the country.

And what they really needed at that point, and what they really needed was a pep talk. They needed somebody who came along and said, things will get better. things can get better things can change you can have hope and there happened to be at that particular point someone who could do that perfectly not good not okay but perfectly and that readiness wasn't so much about being ready for a black president it was about a bunch of circumstances that came together and someone who could take advantage of it.

If you look at the civil rights movement, it's not like America got to the point in the mid-sixth season was like, I think that black people deserve this. It was about the fact that there was enough work being done by all different types of black people. There was enough intellectual versatility, enough intellectual diversity for America to hear from all different types of black people,

to hear from the militants, to hear from the centrists, to hear from the religious class, to hear from the lawyers. But then there was one guy, one guy, who could properly contextualize the place of black people in America, who could use America's history as a weapon, who could use America.

America's future as a promise and could use America's present as a sort of litmus test and could say, and do all of these things and was a genius at it and forced it and made it happen. When you look at the feminist revolution that was happening along that same time and then goes into the 70s, there are several women who were able to step back and make America look at itself and go, you realize we're not a part of this. You realize this isn't a thing. So America is never ready. Never going to be ready.

You always have to take it. You always have to force it. And not in any way to be critical of Michelle Obama. Because God forbid that I would do that. What I would say is that there's a way to interpret this. That you could look and say we shouldn't try. that there are women just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just let's

what I'm saying that there are women who I believe one of the like and you guys can put the pander alert if you want I believe one of the main things that's holding a civilization back is our inability to prioritize women as leaders and and but there's but there's reasons for that though as the world becomes a more sophisticated diverse

multifaceted place I think that there are things about women that to me honestly lend them to be stronger, more capable leaders in this part of society. Not the only leaders but we need more lady voices

we need more lady strength more lady leadership and guidance at the table this conversation has to grow so I don't ever want to think that or believe that we have to turn the page on prioritizing women as leaders because America isn't ready for it. America is never ready. They have never been ready. There's always a confluence of events that leads to these huge changes. And we have to be ready

to prioritize the women that are going to lead these changes. And we have to be bold and fearless in doing this. If there is a woman that is up in 2028, I will vote for her. Any of them? Huh? Any woman? No, not any woman. I'm saying that if there's a woman that I like in 2028, I will vote for her and I won't

hesitate. Okay. Because I know how you feel about MTK. Uh-huh. Come on, man. It's a girl. Don't get me started. I don't want Marjorie Taylor Green to be the president or be a senator.

What do you want from her? I want her to be the president of BET. Oh, whoa, whoa. That's the job. Marjorie Taylor Green has got to take, this is the way she can do it. She got to take some entry-level jobs. So she got to take some culturally entry-level jobs, not even the president of BET. I need Marjorie Taylor Green to like, PA on the Oval.

Come on. I want her to PA on the Oval. I want Marjorie Taylor-Green. If she really is down with it, she needs to. to take orders from some black she need to be a part of it right like she needs to go out there yeah she's gonna try to win people over for sure but let me tell you something about what you said about michel the only thing i'll say is i fair point fine fair some people might see it as if you're being hypercritical i think that she's saying women should not have this type of leadership role i don't

think that's what she's saying i think that the way i took it in and i i hope most people did is that she does not want to run for president. She does not want that. And she's saying this is the reason why, and she's basing it off of some of the things that I said at the top of this segment about what happened to Kamala Harris. I wholeheartedly believe if Joe Biden's former president Joe Biden's vice president was a white man, that person would have won office.

A white man and separated himself from Biden. I think he would have won office. I do. That's just me. We'll never know. But to her point, it's not, don't stop trying, because that would go against everything that Michelle Obama stands for. But it's more of just noting the time we're in and noting that even though we have made progress,

there's still progress to be made, whether it's gender roles, whether it's the patriarchy, whether, all of that. And you said it's so beautifully, and it was not pandering to women, it's the truth. And there are several countries that have been. been led and are being led by women with great success. So it's not that it can't be done. It's happening all over the world. It's that we as an American society need to get over some of these stereotypes that we have,

some of the patriarchy that is so, and it's everywhere, right? It's not just America, but it is so prevalent in our society. And both men and women contribute to why it still exists in this way, which is why I said, I hear men and women say that they could not have would not have voted for Carmelah Harris. Until we can get past those things, we can't get to a place where she could run and win.

One time more than anything, I disagree with pot. I know it seems heaven's sick. We ain't ready to see a black president. And the signal until the fact, potentially just packed and it pills filled with blacks. You know that?

You know that record? I wake up in the morning and I ask myself, it's life worth living, should I blast myself. I'm trying to be poor and even worse. I'm black. My stomach hurts so I'm looking for a purse to snatch.

Cops give a damn about a knee, grow, pull a trigger killer, nigga, he's a hero. Come on, man. Give me sorry on that motherfucking. Pock shit. But I was like, yeah, Pop, what the fuck you talk about? Nick? You don't know.

Like, we're ready for a black president. I was like, I'm ready. I was like 16. 17. He wasn't talking to you. He wasn't talking to you. He wasn't talking to you. You don't tell us.

Love you, Pop. Dallas Cowboys. What about him? They got, they always linked to Tupac. What do you say? Tupac was still living the last time y'all won the Super Bowl. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business.

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This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud,

you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need Weather Tech unless you plan on. doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Let's talk about for real quick. Donnie, play for real. All right, here he is. After he got the key to the city in Miami, he had this to say. As we look at what's going on, the current political climate, I'm just saying to, I want to turn him by y'all, I hate politics. Like despise them. It is, it's a magic trick that it's not real. I don't believe in either side. So I think when you pick a side, you are only

You are inadvertently supporting the vision. Yeah, it's not a popular point of view, but I just got to say that I think about it. The wells are drying up. And now diversity's off the table, not equities off the table, now inclusions off the table. So that makes me ask myself, okay, so how do we survive? Well, are there black people here tonight?

And in your heart, do you think, for what it is that you do and who you are, do you think you're the best? Okay, so do you want the job because you're black or because you're the best? Do you want someone to support your startup because you're black or because you're the best? Yes. Right. So I think now for me it's about us having the best ambition. That's the reason why you should support these businesses.

Yes, they happen to be back and brown, but it should be based on the pieces that we're the best, not because we are a total shade of a skin color. That's a point of view that I have now that I'm resting on. And if diversity, equity, and inclusion never comes back in style, cool. But in the meantime, I'm going to focus on being the best because I can think on that. Because that's what's going to get you the position. Where, you know, I don't want you to give me anything. I want you to, I want you to panic and not let me out the room because I'm the best.

Hey, go ahead. Oh, me? Oh, okay. This is an issue that we are running into more. And the issue that we're running into more is how we show up in conversation with, the people that we have made into the Titans that they are. Now, these people have made themselves into Titans, be it Farrell, Kanye, Hove, whoever it is, whoever it is.

They've made themselves. They have immense amounts of talent. You can't even imagine the talent that they have. But there's a conversation that they have that is at cross-purposes with the conversation that we're having. First of all, Farrell says that he, is not into politics. Politics is divisive. He is into politics. He just doesn't know that he is.

Farrell is a musician. Politics affects the music industry as much as he does any other industry. Laws, regulations, and policy. Copyright law is a part of Farrell's life. Streaming regulation is a part of Farrell's life. Net neutrality is a part of Ferrell's life. Censorship is a part of Ferrell's life. Concert licensing is a part of Ferrell's life. Work visas.

Immigration law. where he can get talent from, part of Farrell's life. Tariffs on all the equipment that might come in. It's part of Farrell's life. Part of his tax policy, part of Farrell's life.

Like social and political stuff, the messages that exist in music from people that he might produce, part of Farrell's life. Political blacklash from stuff that might happen to people. Part of Farrell's life. Corporations that he might work with

their lobby. Part of Farrell's life. Big tech lobbying from places like Spotify. from places like Apple, from places like YouTube, part of Farrell's life. All of that stuff. The consolidation of radio,

part of Farrell's life. He's a musician. All of these things are the way that Farrell does. I could go on, right? I could go on and talk about all the different ways that politics is a part of Farrell's life as a creative because politics is a part of all of our lives. That's the point.

Politics is in the water that you drink. Politics is your freedom of movement, when you leave your home. Politics is the quality of the food that's in your supermarket. Politics is if you have a supermarket, politics is all of that. And if you are separated from that, then what you are saying is that you are completely trusting

in power to make decisions for you. And what I would say to you, what I would say to you is that it's important for you to know politics so that you can make the decision for, yourself and then empower someone else to represent you. So that is why. First of all, that it would be separate from politics.

I don't believe in that period. But I'll say something deeper here that goes back to the way I started this entire thing. Is for somebody like Farrell or a ball player or, you know, an actor or something like that, you have to try to remain connected. to the average person that's consuming your stuff. Because when he talks about being the best,

he is reflecting on a life of being, in my opinion, one of the most gifted musicians of all time. He's reflecting on that and he's saying, I could not be kept out of these rooms. I cannot be kept from achieving because simply I see sounds like nobody else and I'm the best and I'm going to succeed.

Well, I guess the question is, how do we choose the best in a place that you don't have entry into? But how do we choose the best pilot? How do we choose the best CPA? How do we choose the best attorney? How do we choose in anything where you, where there is a structure where you need an opportunity, where the barrier to entry isn't just listen to what I did. just listen to what I did or the barrier to entry isn't just hey I'm standing here you're standing there who is the fastest what if the barrier of entry is the quality of your schools what if the

barrier to entry is you being hungry so you can't even perform in your schools what if the barrier to entry is whether or not you get the opportunity at higher education what if the barrier of entry for you to show that you are the best is to be accepted or hired at a firm where all of the guys went to Harvard and they hire other Harvard guys, right? And you went to Tennessee State. You went to Fam You, where everyone who's doing anything important seems to have gone. what there was a I can't remember who's given this speech but I'm going to have this

there was a gentleman who was given a speech at Oxford Oxford doesn't have legacy admissions he was given a speech at Oxford to the graduating class watched his speech and he goes Oxford does not have legacy admissions right which is and there was mild applause

which means that you didn't just get here because your parent or your brother or somebody else got here. But he said, the majority of the people in this room, 90-something percent all went to the same super prestigious elite private schools. Which means, even though Oxford does not have legacy admissions, that capitalism is still choosing who graduates from Oxford.

less applause. Because some of these barriers to entry that we're talking about are decisions that were made by people's parents and grandparents. And if we do not have the wherewithal or the stomach to challenge that status quo in America, then we're reinforcing it. So when Farrell talks about being the best, when he talks about whether or not you want something because you're black or because you're the best, there's almost a thought that those two things have to be mutually exclusive. I am black and I have been deprived in this country. I want the opportunity to show I'm the best. How am I going to get it if the things that undergird American competition aren't fair?

And if they are fair and if anyone wants to make the case that they are fair, be it Farrell or be it anyone else. If they are fair, then explain to me how in Boston the median white family has $288,000 worth of wealth. And the median black family has $8. Explain to me. I am willing to have that conversation with anyone. If there is a way to properly contextualize American disparity, very evident American disparity, And you guys have heard me say this over and over and over again.

And we can pick cities, pick towns, pick all the weekend. If there's a way to explain the disparity that just says niggas don't want to work and they're not smart, I'll have the conversation with you. Don't believe you, but I'll have the conversation with you. So I guess my response to this is not to for real. who is a nice guy. My response is to you who are listening. I want you to know that the geniuses

that you have given prodigious wealth to, the geniuses that you have given a lifestyle by supporting their genius, they are not in community with you. And that is not an indictment on you, on them, how could they be?

Like, how could they be? How could they be? How could someone like Farrell or whomever else understand what somebody coming out of high school or college right now? It's been a very long time, been rich for a very long time. It's so ridiculously telling them, how could they, but I want you to understand that these people are not in community with you. And once you understand that they're not in community with you, once you'll understand that you have an entire set of problems and in existence. that just doesn't mean anything to them, that they just don't care about,

that they can't care about, that literally their lives or something different, then you'll understand one thing. It doesn't matter what they say. It doesn't matter what they say. It literally, I want you guys to really understand this, it doesn't matter what they say. There is an intellectual or an inventor

or an activist, that would love for you, for us, for someone else to pay attention to the work that they're doing for you as much as we pay attention to all of these other people. There's somebody somewhere right now that is busting their ass to illuminate this very issue. And we're doing a disservice to them because we're talking to somebody. We're talking about someone who is removed from what the reality of this actually. is. Well, it's, it is, it's not a disservice because you're pointing out a very good thing. You should not necessarily, once you understand that they are disconnected from you, that they're almost talking down to you or talking at you because they have, and this is where I will disagree with you, they have chosen to not understand you because if you can sit there on a stage and talk about, sorry. Wait a minute. So, I just, so Farrell woke up and I was like, I'm a shit on the working people today. I don't like them.

What you said was is that he can't understand you because of where he is. That is a choice. That is my point. If you can sit on stage and you can comment about politics and call it what was the word he used, either a fantasy or that it's a magical thing, if you can say that and you can speak to certain things that are currently happening in the world, then you're tapped in at some point, right? So even though you might live a completely different life where your kids go to a different school, you dine with different people in different places, you travel a certain way, you wear a certain clothing that is not like, you know, the community as a whole, right? Because of the things that you've achieved and the way you choose to live your life, it doesn't mean that you can't understand because of how you grew up, maybe where you current family members that you have in certain situations that you can't understand it. you are making a choice to choose to detach yourself from it. It might be harder for you to do it because you are so far removed from it,

but it doesn't mean that you are incapable of doing that. And the thing I will say about Farrell in this situation, it is one of the most privileged statements, as he says this whole thing, that, you know, not I've heard in a while, but just that I've heard in a while. It's pretty privileged because I think it's pretty privileged because I think it's, If I'm going to give him anything, I don't think he meant to say politics. I think he meant to say political parties. And if he wants to say political parties are divisive, totally true.

You're so right. That's exactly what I would have said about politics is embedded in every single thing that we do in our lives. And your privilege gets you the power to separate yourself from that and say the things that Farrell was saying. You have a certain level of power because of the privilege that you have. have in this world. You can't, none of the stuff that you're saying applies to you to the people that you're talking to or the people that you're telling just be your best, right? It takes more than that than just to be your best. Talent isn't necessarily enough. Being your best isn't necessarily enough. There are other things that have to be in place at times in order for you to rise up

the ladder, which are the things that you were talking about. So what I would say to Forel is, say political parties are divisive. Say you don't want to align yourself with political parties, that's fine. We talk about that on this podcast. But the way he was sitting on that stage and talking was almost as if it's almost separate from morals and values, right? You don't stay silent just because you don't like politics and you don't want to involve with it. There should be something within you that is so more distraught by what's happening. Your morals and values should take over where you feel like you have to say something and you have to speak to it without aligning yourself or getting involved with politics. That's possible as well.

But the message that he was preaching up on that stage was that this isn't a real thing. Don't get involved with it, which could not be farther from the truth. It is a very real thing that is having real impact on so many people's lives for good and bad, right? But lately it's been a lot of bad. And so what he should be telling people is, I'm not going to stay silent. I'm going to speak out on the things that I'm against, but I'm not going to align myself necessarily to a politician or to a political party. So obviously we always have a different approach. Okay.

But I guess the reason why I say he doesn't is because the things that he were saying, the things that he was saying aren't connected, there are surface level. Yes, you're right. There are a surface level evaluation of what meritocracy and individualism is. Yeah. And it's a way that things are, sometimes America launders itself through these things that no one would disagree with.

There's a way to intellectually launder the reality of America through the term meritocracy. Like the best person will win. Like the best, that's what it should be. It should be about individual meritocracy. And when that is said, there's almost no one who is going to say, I don't think that's true. There's almost anyone who, there's no one that's going to be like, no, I don't think that individual meritocracy is a good thing. I think that we should give incompetent people chances. There's nobody that's going to say that, right?

There's nobody that's going to be like, no, meritocracy's not great. I think the worst people should get something. But what the conversation is is about whether or not meritocracy is possible alongside of systemic dysfunction and racism, whether or not we're talking about a true meritocracy if we're talking about people who are hungry, people who don't have access to educational systems. If meritocracy is about where you start and not who you are, right, then how do we nurture true meritocracy?

And the only way to nurture true meritocracy, it's very simple. If we are all, let's take it to an athletic situation. All you guys are listening to this, you know this. If we are all lined up and we're about to run, right? And it's everybody's running, we're going to run as fast as we want. If one person had to work all night and didn't have enough, money for breakfast, they would have to be so much faster than everybody else that got a good night's sleep and ate breakfast in the morning that is actually not meritocracy.

It's rewarding the person that started in the most resourced place. And that is a continual conversation that we're trying to have. Will we ever get to a point in American society where everyone has the same amount of access to everything? Maybe not. But the conversation that we're having is about whether or not that is even a goal

that we should be trying to attain. And conversations like this, even if they don't mean to, undermine that. The reason why I can understand the reason how he looks at this is because I grew up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where sports is king. Sports is king, right?

Everything is about sports. and you hear about people that are just crazy dope in sports. Michael Clayton is the best football player in the nation, along with Marcus Spears. One go to Christian Life, the other one go to Southern Lab. Ryan Terrio is from your town. Travis Minor is from your town. Major Applewhite is from your town.

Lester Earl is from your town. All of these people, they come from you, you see them go do the thing, right? Not any of these guys. I haven't talked to these guys specifically about this stuff. But when you talk to people like that or when you know niggas, they'll say stuff like, well, I've never really seen any racism. And they'll say it, they'll be like, well, I don't really know that much about that, right?

Like, I ran in a race when I was in the seventh grade. I was fasting in everybody when I was in the seventh grade. And then Catholic High came and got me. And then there was a white family at Catholic High, and they took care of me. And then I went to LSU. And then I got drafted. By the time I learned what racism was. It was because I was driving a car in,

when I was 26 years old in the city by the team that I got drafted from, and they didn't know who I was. And they saw somebody driving a nice car and whatever, and they pulled me over. And I'm like, oh, shit. Two things there. One, some of them don't understand that the circumstances that they came from are a result of entrenched, prolonged American racial disparity.

and then others don't understand that they were commodified from the time that they were 12 years old. They had a skill that was undeniable. Some skills like the ability to do math. Some skills like the ability to have rhetorical genius. Some skills like the fact that you are always on time, which is a skill, or the fact that you are a hard worker, which is a skill, some skills take a little bit of getting into the guts with. And those are also skills that apply to other things.

Meaning, if your choice matrix is between doctor or lawyer, then you're set up for success. If your choice matrix is between doctor and drug dealer, there is a gulf between the outcomes. and every bit of hard work that you show like in school can easily be shown on the corner. You could easily, I've heard guys that are hustlers admonish other guys that don't work hard.

I'm not going to say the names, but I remember I never heard the, I remember this conversation like it was yesterday. We can move off this after this. We playing basketball, two of my homies. One of my homies is into something. The other my homies is just getting to start with it. and he looked at him, he got the Carolina Blue J's on.

And he said, you never going to get these shoes. And he's like, why, you never going to make enough. He was like, man, I like, when you got up this morning, I was hustling. I hustle. I was so funny. God rest his soul, he did. He's like, I hustle, I go get some breakfast. After I get breakfast, I chill, I come back out here, I hustle.

Just to give a break from my mind, I watch these niggas play a little basketball because we was playing. And then after that, you know what I do? I hustle. I hustle. Then I get in my shit and I walk to go get what the fuck I need and I come back. And every single thing on my body is because I'm willing to go out there and be there when you're not there. He's like, I can hit you whatever you need.

I can give you everything you need, but I can't give you that. And if you don't have that, you don't need to be out here. And I'm watching him talk to him. I don't want to start crying. But I'm watching, I'm listening to him talk to him about work ethic. And I'm like, yo, what the fuck? are we doing? Like what, like, what, like, what, like, what, like, what, like, what, like, what, like, what, like, I hear, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, it's hard, because you can't be the nigger that's, like, going, don't you know that you shouldn't be doing this, that you're not, that all of that work, that you're showing, that you're going to be out of here, but you can't say that.

Well, fuck it. Let's move on. Uh, uh, Eric Adams. I can't do it again, man. Like, no, I just, I can't, I can't, I can't do it. I'm so sick of this fucking shit. You want to just stop? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because Eric Adams serves Israel and we got to talk about that. I was hoping we were not talking.

I didn't see this, but go ahead. Like, Donnie, yeah, Mayor Eric Adams, he was in Israel this past weekend doing the rounds, and he had this to say. My male keys are here in Israel. And as I finish, I want to do. to come back here to Israel and let you know that I serve you as the mayor, but I want to continue to have the title that's more important to me than anything. I'm your brother.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Eric Adams went to Israel. And he said that he served them. What? He said he served them. I thought we were done with him.

As the mayor. This is all I say about this. Just them. This is all I'll say about this. Sometimes even when you got somebody that's with you, you got to be like, whoa, chill. I've seen this before. Sometimes, like, there would be like a white homie, and they would be going a little too hard. And I'd have to be like, yo, chill.

Like, for you, for the community. Like, for black people. Like, I'm so down with the black people. Okay. Are we walking? We almost to Louis, LSU campus. The cops are there. One of my homies that was down with us goes,

Hey, you wouldn't be following us if we weren't. I'm like, can we go get the hamburgers, please? Like, we don't, like, just chill. Y'all, you know, this is one of the ones where it looks so bad. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is, like, like, this is one of the ones. where it looks so bad. Maybe like Ben Shapiro,

just put your... Because this is like an obvious... You know what I'm saying? It's like, it looks so... Like, it looks so bad. And by the way, I will say something else here. I always have to say this. I'm having more conversations

with my Jewish friends about anti-Semitism... Oh man, come on now. Don't do that. I'm having more conversations with my Jewish friends about anti-Semitism and about what it means

to show up for your Jewish friends. That's good. The rise of Nick Fuentes and the corporatization of the right is very direct anti-Semitism, Marjorie Taylor Green. So we are not going to get out of community with our Jewish friends. We're not going to get out of community with our Jewish friends. Nothing is going to pull us out of community with our Jewish friends. We are going to be in community with our Arab and Muslim friends.

And nothing is going to pull us out of community with them either. No lies, no Islamophobia, no none of that. We're going to remain in community with people who need our help and people. We're going to remain in community. There is an obviousness to this right here that can be used in very fucked up ways. And he just looks, this looks like what everybody says. And so if I was, I'd be like, yo, chill. Don't say that you were serving somebody other than the citizens of New York.

when you're to marry New York. That's kind of what people say, and we want to stay away from that. I would say that if I was inside of the shit. I told my homie that night, I'm like, yo, can we just get the hamburger? Like, we're not trying to, like, we got a whole plan.

The LSU just finished. The game is over. When we're going to eat the hamburger, and then we're going to go to the sorority, we're going to walk up and down. It's already going to be. an afflicted night. It's already going to be flicted because we're going to, we partying with the LSU kids. It's already up. Let's get the night started. We pulled them to the side of like,

hey, chill, you ain't got to do this right now. That's what they should do to Eric Adams. Eric. Eric. Relax. Relax. Relax. Relax. You're not wrong, right? Like, yes, we need to be fighting against anti-Semitism always. But like, it just, feels performative. I'm not saying he doesn't care.

It's just it just I would say Eric, man. It's the picture. Yeah. Catching the wall.

Like, it's, it's, it's just this one is one of those ones. It's just very Eric Adams. It's very Eric Adams. It's very Eric Adams.

Like if you told me that Jordan Wells did this, I wouldn't be surprised either. Because what if the polls say? Fuck, bro. The Rasmussen poll. He's the number one in polls in the Republican Party.

Couldn't fucking handle it. Like, we got to go. We got to go. Couldn't handle it. Not the nigger that do the Rasmussen poll. What if he's racist? Remussewing polls. Let's go.

Let's go. Honestly, I can hear Eric Adam saying it the exact same way. The exact same way. I just, you know what, we gotta go. It's just always interesting to me, like, what the breaking point is. Because it's like, I get, I never told this story real quick before you got out of here. So there was a time when I flirted it with conservatism. Okay, when was this?

So. I want to know what years we're in. This is like 91, 92. So you were 11 or 12. Yep. So it was, you know what, though? So it was Bush. Nah, it was Russian Limbaugh.

At 11 or 12? Let me tell you what happened. Let me tell you out my story. Let me tell you out my story. Extreme conservatism is that. So listen. So I'm in the gifted program. So my classmates in the gifted program, a lot of them are white.

It's a guy named John Greco. who was into the stuff that I was into because I would be, there's this thought that like everybody in Baton Rouge go hunting. That's not true. Okay, I didn't know that was a thought. Well, people act like, oh, if you say,

oh, I've been hunting before, people go, all you from Louisiana, and that makes a lot of sense. Baton Rouge got a half a million people in it, more. A lot of these people are straight, city people that have country roots. Like, your parents might be from around there, whatever, whatever.

They might be into a little fishing. They know people that go fishing. But to get up with your dad on a Saturday morning and go sit in a deer stand in order to have rabbit dogs and all of that stuff, that's country shit that a lot of your friends are into. Ryan and Gino, all them niggas don't do that type of shit. You think Gino is going to... I know.

Yeah. His weapon of choices came. His weapon of choice is that. This Gino right here. I talked to Mark Lamont Hill this morning. And Mark Lamar Hill, I was talking to. about how they shimmy the freedom over there with, eh, eh, da-da-da.

But, you know, I know this, because remember I dated a guy from Zachary? Did this guy from Zach? His dad was a champion, coon-hunter. Coon-hunter, okay? Coons, shoot the coon out the tree. Boy, when I think about hunting now, you shoot the raccoon, the poor raccoon fall way out the fucking tree.

Like, but anyway, um, so John Greco was a hunter, though. And I remember I was in class one time as we had gone fishing. and the teacher in the class was like what did y'all catch? And I'm like, man, we caught a boat for La Sackalee.

And all of the kids in the class were like, what the fuck is a Sackle? Oh my God, a Sackle. Like, blah, blah, blah, blah. What kind of? There's no such fish called a Sackle. I'm like, yes, there is. There's a fish called a Sackalay.

A sackle is a fish is actually the best tasting fish is the funest fish to catch. And John Greco goes, oh, no, he's right. Sackole. It's a light fish. It tastes great. They hit the, I'm like, yeah, John. So I start talking to John.

And John has a sticker on his backpack on one of his books, and it says, Rush is Right. And I said, who is Rush? And Rush was Rush Limbaugh. So I start waking up at 6 o'clock in the morning, 6 o'clock in the morning and watching Rush Limbaugh before school. And what's your parents say? Two different.

I want to know what your dad said. Two different responses. My mother is like, let him explore it. Total faith in the work she had done. Total faith. Let him explore it. My dad came to a breaking point. So these people came to the door and they were canvassing for Bill Clinton.

Okay. And this must have been 92 by this point. Maybe it was 91, but they were canvassing for Bill Clinton. And I stood in the doorway and debated back and forth with this guy. And the guy is looking at me like, I can't believe I'm seeing this. And I remember he said to me, he goes, how old are you? I'm like, I'm 12. And he goes, the Republicans have been in power in the White House every day that you've been

alive. Was this guy black or white? He was white with glasses. And this was a brave motherfucker. Had to be a brave motherfucker walking around our neighborhood, knocking on doors for Bill Clinton. I wish I knew who this man was, right? And so we go back and forth. We're talking.

I never forget it. He leaves. And my dad was always good for just saying stuff and not saying it directly to you when he didn't want to, like, get on your ass. I remember he goes, wow. I tell you what, though, any Uncle Tom that tries to come back to this house

are going to find himself homeless. That's what I know. I know one goddamn thing is I ain't, I ain't, it's going to, lot of niggas and raise Uncle Tom's. I'm not going to be one of them. So anybody that leaves this house and comes back to this house or Uncle Tom, mm-mm, you're going to sleep in the front yard, somebody else's yard. I don't know.

I'm like, what the fuck is, I don't know if he's talking to me or whatever. What he's, he's talking to me, whatever. And I flirted with it for a while, and I wash it, I wash it, and then something happened. Your breaking point. My breaking point. Rush Limbaugh took a picture of Chelsea Clinton

and he put it on his desk. The policy I really couldn't make heads or tails if I was too young. And it wasn't directly racist at that point that I could remember. But I do remember what my breaking point was. Rush Limbaugh took a picture of Chelsea Clinton. Oh, no, he took a picture of a dog

that was on his desk. It was like a white dog. And he said that that dog was Chelsea Clinton. He was talking about her looks. Chelsea Clinton was one year younger than me. And I remember thinking, this guy's a fucking asshole. I was like, and I went to school

and I talked to Thomas Messina. His daddy was like an orthopedic surgeon or something like that. Thomas was cool. He used to play the guitar and all that shit. They played, it smelled like Teen Spirit at the talent show, everybody went crazy. He's like, Thomas went around.

It's like, Thomas was seen. And he was like, yeah. He's like, he's a fucking jerk. He was like, he's a van. You, you listen to John? And I was like, well, John be hunting and fishing. So John, he's like, you fucking, do you fucking, do you know what John? And I was like, oh, shit. And then I come back to my mom, I ask my mom, and my mom goes, hmm, well,

You've had your fill of that. She was like, would you like a book? I'm like, yes. Autobiography, Malcolm X. By Alder's Haylor. Wow. Let me have it. Let me go out. Let me do my thing.

She was like, would you like a book? Give me a book. After that, Young Van, radicalized. That was my last time. Just kept getting worse. Kept annoying people more. Kept getting worse.

I'll say all that to say that if the Rasmussen poll is this guy is this guy's Chelsea Clinton I'm not going to stop you're not going to stop him I'm so sorry

for talking too much take your thing I'm sorry I'm not I'm really I'm Rachel and Lindsay my guys oh shit