Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Metta Sandiford-Artest Wants the Knicks Job, and the White Black Panther

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Van and Rachel are joined by NBA great Metta Sandiford-Artest, who thinks he’s the right man to lead the Knicks. (:39) Debating the phrase "freak-off" (12:53) Offset threatens violence (22:09) Linda McMahon and DEI (34:32) Metta Sandiford-Artest joins the show (56:08) Karine Jean-Pierre leaving the Dem. Party (1:09:47) Dez Bryant, homophobia, and the NFL (1:18:12) The White Black Panther (1:27:59) Transactional relationships Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Metta Sandiford-Artest Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yeah, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Hilarian is on and is Ivan Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, I have a thought. We have, first of all, we have meta-world peace, meta-standard for Artes. We're on our test.

All the names. Joining us later. He is a homie, and he wants the Knicks head coaching job. So he's going to be on with us a little bit later. Yeah. But Rachel, I, I have a thought and I want to run it by you.

Okay. I get nervous. Okay. I have a thought and I want the opinions of everybody on the higher learning team about this thought. A train is a freak off. Okay. Is that it? Is that a discussion?

I'm saying. I have pushback. A train is a freak off. So obviously the freakoffs that we're talking about, with Diddy are under duress, right? It seems as if Cassie didn't want to do all of these freakoffs. Well, it seems as if that's the allegation, she wouldn't do all. She said she didn't.

Yeah, she doesn't want to do all of these freakoffs. However, when we're talking about freaky parties or people looking at Diddy and saying he was doing all this stuff, I'm saying that like a lot of the brothers that are saying this, they have run trains. I was talking to a friend of mine last night. I'm back home in Louisiana. I'm in New Orleans right now doing an event.

And there was a funny story about him and somebody else, and they had been with this girl, right? Because back in the day, it was all the rage. There was actually, you know, not for me, but for other brothers, there was always, hey, man, let's get a girl, let's run a train. That's a freak off. a train is a freak off. It's you and your homeboys and whomever

having sex with a girl because for some reason you want to engage in group sex with your homeboys. It's like if we're talking about the coercion side of it, that's out of the window if you're doing that. You're raping and sexually abusing and sexually assaulting and taking advantage of people.

But if we're talking about just the factor, oh my God. There's so much of this that people don't recognize. If you and your boys want to all have sex with the same girl, there is something there that makes you want to engage in group sex with your boys. That's a freak off. A train is a freak off. And I was making this case to my homie last night. And he was like, nah, man, I ain't never had no freakoffs. But I'm like, you have them. because I know that you run a train, you guys talk about it, that is a freak off.

Okay. I'm going to try to take this as seriously as possible. I'm serious. The term freak off is no long, you can no longer use that term. I'm sorry.

I never used the term before ever. And I never really heard people. Never heard of it. So to label, so because never heard of it, never used the term before, To me, there is one definition of a freak-off, and it is what is being discussed in this current case. What I would describe before that is either a train or an orgy orgy or whatever you want to call

it. But the specific term freak-off at this point is literally what is being discussed in this case. Criminal activity, the civil suit that Cassie filed. That's the only way I see it. So if I'm your homeboy and I want to engage in sex with multiple people, I'm not calling it a freak off. That term is with Diddy and all the debauchery that came with that.

He titled that, that's what that is. Never heard of it before. So I would push back on that. Let's peel back the layer though. No, because a freak off all we know it is the Diddy shit. That's all we know. What I'm saying is peel back the layer. Understand what I'm trying to say.

This is what I'm trying to say. So this is what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is if we look at, because there's two parts of this case, one is, and by the way, I've been paying so much attention to the case, you know, one part is, oh my God, look at the weird and deviant sex that's being had.

Let's put that in one pocket right there. The other part is obviously, and the more important part is, the decades of really ritual sex abuse and the RICO and all of that stuff that's being alleged, that in and of itself is tried legally. But there's also a cultural trial that's been being had here about just how weird the sex is. There's two different trials happen. There's a cultural trial about people's sexual proclivities, right?

And then there is a legal trial about power, obsessed, controlling, abusive criminal organization that took advantage of a lot of people sexually and made even more people party to crimes, right? It's a legal trial. On the cultural trial, what I'm saying is that a lot of the people that I've heard talking about how weird the sex is and how off-putting it is, to want to watch a man have sex with your girl or want to watch a man have sex with a girl or wanting to be in the same room. These are the same guys that I know that were really excited about

in the late 90s, early 2000s about bringing a girl over and running a train. It wasn't a freak off in terms of the Ditty definition of a freak off because that's the different. But what I'm saying is that it's basically freaking off. It's basically, it's, I'm not, I'm not, I'm saying, how can I say this better?

Well, I'm such a limited communicator. It's so, it's so, like, this is a wild thing, not even wild. It's like, that's the word I want to use. It's like, it's, it's also like, I don't want to say who cares, but it's just so obvious that when you say freak off, that is, I can't separate coercion and abuse and duress from freak off. If you did freaky shit and you were and you were like, it's like, why are we even trying to say, oh, you participated in a freak off before because you ran a train?

Like, who cares? A freak off is, is, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, that term, the action is counts with ditty. If you ran a train, if you like voyeurism, if you were a cup, those are all different things. Those are your, that's your sexual preferences, things that you like to do. But what I think freak off, you can't separate it from the things I said, abuse, coercion, duress, you can't. So why are we even trying to link that word with sexual activity? Why?

Most people are going to agree with you. And this is my point. My point in doing it is this. I have two points. Number one, the first point is to remind a lot of my homeboy. that they are much more sexually fluid than they think that they are. And that's important.

Okay? That's your conversation. No, no, no, that's a huge cultural conversation. That is a very meaningful conversation to me. To remind a lot of these brothers that hold on to a lot of this stuff like so stridently that there are all

types of ways that not only that they've had sex, that they've wanted to have sex, that reflect their affinity, their closeness, and really their attraction to other males. That's the first thing. And that's very important to deconstructing some of the latent homophobia that exists around. That's fine. That's the first thing. Secondly, in my journey to democratize, and to peel back the layers on some of the societal cloaks that exist around this stuff, I just have to let people know that when you're talking about, that weird is what you make it. And so I was talking last night and just using the term freakoff is very triggering

because now people think of freakoffs in two ways. Number one, they think of them in the way that they should, meaning something that Cassie and other women and sex workers were seemingly four. to do as a part of Diddy's alleged sexual criminal enterprise, but also they just think of them as weird sex parties. And as they are being thought of as weird sex parties, I just want to let people know that if you think of them as weird sex parties, that you've had some weird sex parties too. And that all of this stuff

is just not as weird as you think it is, it's only as weird as you can convince other people that it actually is. I think that both of those points are well made. It's the correlation of the term freak off that you're trying to relate

to it. I think you're so right in the way that people enjoy, that's fine. I think it's a little offensive, but I think it a little bit waters down. I know you're not doing I'm just saying how it lands on the years. I know that it's not your attention. I want to be clear.

It's just how it lands on the ears. But you're right. Your two points are right. But then trying to use that term for this and link the two, you lose me there. But, you know, deeper discussion.

What are your thoughts? I think this is a good higher learning conversation. I was just listening. I'm like, this is dope. You both made really good points. And I see where you're both coming from. and I feel like this is just the podcast at his peak. Ashley, what did you think?

Donnie Plotz it. Donnie got to fuck out of that conversation. Donnie got the fuck out of that conversation. Donnie ain't fucking around. Donnie's like, hey, this is why. Donnie said, hey, married father. This is why you guys are so good at what it is that you do. Ashley, what do you think?

Donnie, how many trains have you run? Donnie, that was a little weird, bro. Donnie, hold on for a second, Donnie. Donnie, that was a little bit. Don't know. Don't know. Thanks for the compliment, though, Donnie. What does shit?

It's happening with you. No, I've got zero trains in my past. I feel like group sex with friends isn't a thing that I'm into? I'm not saying I'm against group sex, period, but group sex with friends. It's not your thing. It's not my thing. Yeah. That's okay.

Yeah. It doesn't have to be. Ash, what do you think? I think when it comes to freakoffs, it's all about everyone's getting freaky under corrode, you know,

someone making them get freaky. So, like, you can't, like, run a train because everyone has to be the train tracks, you know? Everyone has to be open. It's the freakoff. Everyone's getting freaky.

And then you have to do it. There's no getting out of it. Well, I'll be honest with you about some of them trains. But that's a whole other conversation that even back then, I was like, I don't know, man. It's, it's like a, it's diminishing returns with some of that stuff. I mean, if we being honest, with some of them trains, some of them trains, some of that stuff wasn't capital C consent. Of course it was.

All right. So, you know, that's all I'm saying. All right. They didn't want to have, I was always a nigga fuck. Whatever. Van ruins everything. Some of them trains. One capital C consent anyway.

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All right. The Cardi B. Offset drama continues. The next chapter is that Offset has been activated both his Instagram and X accounts after a viral tweet

comparing his son Waveses, brazes to Stefan Diggs' who is Cardi B's new boyfriend. Offset tweeted, now when somebody died for playing with my son then call me to crash out

and then a little bit after that he tweeted, I don't care how I look troubling with my kid ends bad. Which came first? This is like, not that it matters, it does, I don't think it matters, but it's like a chicken or,

the chicken or the egg thing. Who had the braids first? The baby? Or Stefan? Do we know? We don't. Because if the baby had the brains and then

Stefan got them, I don't know. I don't know which is worse. They're both wrong. It's wrong. This is, this is, It's wrong how they're playing with each other. It's wrong for what Offset said. It's wrong for Cardi B saying that he would die slow. This is, it's just too much.

It's so messy. And now we're involving the kids. Look, now we involve the kids with the brave hair. Do you remember the future of Russell Wilson situation? That's diabolical. Do you remember the future Russell Wilson situation? Do you remember that? Yes.

Harkens back to this. I remember. Harkens. It does. It's a harkin. I remember we were covering this during the time on TMZ, and I saw the funniest tweet ever, ever. People were making fun of future,

and ladies on the internet were poking fun of future, because I think for a lot of women, I'm being honest with you. No, I'm just going back. I'm going back. Sierra finding her forever. with Russell Wilson was very empowering to them.

Sierra's Prayer. Sierra's prayers are real conversation in women's circles. Right. She had had the future, which a lot of women feel like they have, and then she had founder Russell Wilson, which a lot of women feel like they want,

that I talk to at least. And so it was a very powerful story for them. And I remember seeing this tweet, and the tweet was of future, no, it was of Russell, Wilson, Sierra, and Future's son, Future, Future Jr., right? Mm-hmm. And the tweet said, Russell Wilson, Sierra, and Russell Wilson, Jr.

No. No. No. No. Then, come back. Come back. Come back. Come back.

And I remember, I sent that bitch through to the desk. Harvey was so fucking confused. Harvey was like, wait a me. it's not Russell Wilson Jr. It's future junior. It's futures kid. And I'm like, yeah, that's the joke. It's Russell Wilson Jr. now.

He's dressing like and teaching a little nigga I throw the football the whole nine. But I also thought, because I was laughing, if you are future, and I know so many people are going to say so many things, like how good a father are you being, like how present you are, all of that stuff, all of that. Of course, all of that matters.

It's the only thing that matters. but if there is one way to fuck with any self-respecting man, it is to fuck with his son. Rest and peace to my father, I played a joke on my dad one time.

Like, me and Ma had, we arrived at the stables. That was there at the stables. Now we know that there were many things happening at the stables. But dad was there at the stables. And I told us. dad that he's like, oh, why are you here? Like, well, you're here? You have practice.

I was like, nah, I didn't have practice, you know. I actually, I told him the principal of McKinley, Mr. Brown, I said he hit me. And when I saw the look on my father's face, his eyes got big. And he started jingling with his keys. He was getting ready to go up there right now. His son.

So when I see this and I see offset and all of this stuff happening, Cardi B, if she cares about her family, if she actually cares about her family, she needs to get in there and dead this situation because this could get so far blown out of proportion. And I know I'm making it, I am making it in this situation right here, it is definitely partly her responsibility

to go in there and dead the situation before it goes too far. No, no, no, no, it is. And I don't think you're exaggerating at all. all, which is why I asked who did it, who, like, which came first? Because is this a situation where Cardi B saw how his hair was braided and then immediately was like, oh, I'm going to get the sons? But it's diabolical anyway, or is it something that was out of her control and now she needs to do damage control to fix it?

Did the kid have his hair braided? Because they go to the same braider. I was looking this up. They go to the same braider. So did then Stefan see the hair braided? I thought, oh, that's pretty cute. I'm going to go get my hair braided to be diabolical. And now Cardi B's got to fix the situation.

Either way it goes, it's wrong. I'm not condoning offsets tweets, but it is wrong. You are... Hold on. Let me get Braddy. Growny's attacking. Make it attacking. Browdy!

Get over here. Browning. Yeah, either way this goes, they got to stop. This has got to be the end of it right here. Because, like I said, you're bringing the children in. You're messing with somebody's kids. you're playing daddy, you do it in his face, you're playing in his face at this point.

And I'm not saying either one of them are clean in this, but this ain't right. Keep the kids out of it. Keep the kids out. We're, at this point, I don't want to get in people's business and tell them how to run their families, but like we're a part of it now

because they're leveraging public sentiment. They want us to be. Yeah. In the battle between each other. So since they have asked for my opinion by putting this out of it, in the public. My opinion is keep the fucking kids out of it. Using the sons and daughters of people in triggers like this,

in situations like this to trigger people, should I say, is it's putting everybody in danger. It's actually putting the kids in danger as well. Because what if Offset runs up on Stefan Diggs when the kids are around? What if now Offset got a crash out? You're putting him in a situation where he has to crash out. But I don't know. That may be things. of the Russell of Wilson Wilson Jr. tweet, which I wish I could still find. I laughed my

fucking face off because I'm like, look how petty. Look how petty this has gotten. But what I will say in defense of Russell is it doesn't seem that future has any type of relationship with Future Junior, whereas opposed to it seems offset

is still involved. I mean, Cardi B would say differently, but it seems like offset is still involved in his child's life. So it almost makes it even worse. I don't think that Future doesn't have a relationship with his son. Really? Yeah. I don't think that that's true. Like, I'm

pretty sure that they have Now, Future got a lot of kids and Future Junior is living in the household with Sierra and Russell Wilson. But I don't think that future is absent from his kids' life. I think he's probably, it's probably a little

bit, you know, he's got to divide the time up as he sees fit because of everything that's going on. But I I think future's like around. I don't know if he always has been, but I see him with his son. You know, I don't want to get too deep into that. Okay.

My bad, I haven't seen it. I'm looking up what Sierra. She was asked in 2023, what is co-parenting like for her and between her and future? And she laughed for 15 seconds. What is co-parenting like for you guys? Ha-ha. I'm done.

Timmy, you're awesome. You're awesome. Okay. I feel like that's it. Yeah. Well, fuck me. Fuck me. me. Right from the source. Future, I tried to shoot you some bail, dog.

All right. Education Secretary Lyndon McMahon testified before the House of Representatives Education and Workforce Subcommittee, and she was confronted by Representative Summer League about what constitutes illegal DEI in schools. And this is what Ms. McMahon had to say. A few other examples that I would like to your thoughts on, simple yes or no. if this is a legal DEI, an example, would you say that it would be an illegal DEI for a lesson plan on the Tulsa Race Massacre? I'd have to get back to you on that. Do you know what the Tulsa Race Massacre is? I'd like to look into it more and get back to you on it.

Okay, so I look forward to that. How about the book, Through My Eyes by Ruby Bridges, for instance? I haven't read that. Have you learned about Ruby Bridges? If you have specific examples, you like the eyes. That was a specific example. I was an incredibly specific example. I named the specific book.

And I will look into it and get back to you on the money. What did you want to talk about with this? Because all this proves is that Linda McMahon bought her way into this position, this secretary position, and she's a blithering idiot. She is only there to further whatever is in Project 2025 with the Department of Education, which we know that is defunding it, ending it altogether. That is her purpose. she is there as a soldier for Trump.

So of course she doesn't know about any of these things. Of course. This reminds me about this reminds me about the Watchman series that came out a couple of years ago, right? The Watchman series came out a couple of years ago.

Fantastic limited series. Now, I love, I'm a Watchman Pierce. I love the original and faithful adaptation of the Watchman, but I love the series. And it was funny when it came out, oh yes, you guys, I am wearing shorts. Look at the knees.

It's the bees' knees. When the Wiking came out, you know, the Tulsa Race Massacre is a big part of the series. And like, you know, people were like, oh, my God, I never knew about the Tulsa Race Massacre. And it was funny to me. that people didn't know. Yeah, man.

Yeah, it's funny because this black thing is a full-time job, man. I'm sorry. You guys, I got to be real with y'all. Like, I don't have, people think, I hate systems. I hate systems that oppress people.

That's the way that I see the world. I see the world. through the struggle, particularly American culture, through the struggle of black justice. But God damn, sometimes it's difficult not to just hate. It's difficult not to just be angry all the time. Like, really? Because, like, when you think about all of those people

and them losing their lives for no reason in a brutal massacre because of racial terrorism. And then they are also forgotten. This woman is the Secretary of Education. How on God's green earth can we expect people who don't understand the context of history to govern in a contemporary context?

How can we expect people like that? It's so weird. And you, and by the way, the funniest thing about all it is, and it is funny, is that Linda McMahon is not especially stupid. She's not specially stupid. She is with this. No, she's not.

Okay. That is, to me, she represents the status quo of, in my opinion, the white American experience and education as it relates to black history. That is status quo. She's not especially stupid. That's the status quo of it.

That's normal. I believe so. That is normal. That is the status quo of white American education and connection to significant parts of black history. And of course, it's intentional. But God damn it if that don't piss me the fuck off. Of all the things that we've seen,

send her sit there and that piss me the fuck off. I get actually mad. And I also get more race-obsessed when I'm back in Louisiana. Just let you know, because I look around and I'm back here and I'm you know. So, but what's you going to do though?

The reason I call her a blithering idiot is because you could be smart in certain subjects but she's clearly not smart when it comes to being the secretary of education. She is not qualified for the job. She bought her way into it.

As I said at the beginning, she is there to serve a purpose. She does not care to learn. And Nora, she brought there to learn. She's not brought there to understand history or to actually, well, let me give it to the congresswoman who said it. She said that what Linda, yes, what Linda McMahon is doing is basically reiterating the lost narrative. And that's exactly what she's doing.

She's trying to rewrite history in a way that waters down and glorifies almost the days of yester years, what they did after, I said lost name, I meant lost cause, sorry, lost cause, lost cause. Like they did after the Civil War. These are the things that she is there to do. She doesn't care, care at all to teach about African American history, even though she did say that that's teaching African American history. history isn't DEI with an asterisk, of course. But yeah, I, I laugh not because I'm not. Teaching African American history isn't DEI as long as you teach the other side.

What the fuck is the other side? That's what I said with an asterisk. Yes, which goes to the whole the lost cause part of it. Yes, the other side of it, which is teach it, but make sure that we look good at the same time. Don't talk about the bad parts. I'll talk about the bad part of history that makes white people. look bad. Make sure you include that. Yes, no, which is not history. It's not the right thing. They're rewriting it. By the way, African American history isn't just about teaching all of the

tremendously terrible things that have happened to black people throughout the course of their existence here in America. It's also about achievement. And that's also, that's actually more important to me. It's actually more important. You know, the various horrors of African-American experience, at least there's some stickiness there. At least there's some

understanding of it. I think what's not understood directly is the role that black people have played in building America from an achievement standpoint. Okay. Like Granville Woods, Madam C.J. Walker, and all

of these stories that we continuously tell, people who had to overcome a great deal of things in order to become who they were. Not only that, but the social and scientific technology that black people are responsible for in building America, the black people's contribution to union building, to so many of the things that make America what it is today, how the contributions and the sweat equity of black people have influenced things that have benefited all Americans, all Americans. That's as important to me, even more important to teach than how shitty things have been. Because that makes us what we are, which is equal partners in the American experiment,

which I sometimes don't think that people think that we are. You know, the only, I agree with you, the only pushback I would say is that I could see them twisting that. to say if you take if you because we know they don't want to talk about the bad parts but if you only focused on the good things they would say see look how so and so was able to overcome and make it see things we did weren't that bad because this person did this and like we see them do this person did this this person

they would pick and choose and use those as examples as to how historically things weren't that bad Yeah, I mean, look, anytime you exalt someone, particularly from a minority group, there's a chance for tokenism. I mean, that's a thing. But these stories got to get told. And inside of all those stories, I can't think of one of them that I've named that doesn't have an aspect to it that deals in the experience of those people

as black Americans in this country. the way that they looked at it and the things that they had to do. So, but I mean, we're never going to get there on the other side of it, and your point is well made, if the fucking secretary of education doesn't know about the Tulsa Race Massacre. And then just to be honest with you, if anything, if any historical event involving the Black Americans has had resurgence, it's been the Tulsa Race Massacre. she must have had her head up John Cena's ass for the last 10 years.

If she has not even heard of or participated in or was aware of a debate involving the descendants of the race massacre or the cultural significance of it. Well, do you believe that she doesn't know or she just didn't want to acknowledge it for purposes of the line of questioning? If she knew and didn't want to acknowledge it, I just can't imagine a reason why that would be a thing. Because she doesn't want to recognize that. She doesn't want to answer the DEI question part of it, right? So if she says that she knows what it is, then there's going to be further questioning of, okay, well, do you understand it? Do you think that that that should be included? Or do you think that, you know, and then if she's because if she says she doesn't know, then I can't really speak to that because I don't know.

That's why she's doing that. maybe, made her look like an idiot, just like you said. Yeah. And that wasn't the only thing that made it look like an idiot. There were multiple. There were multiple things. This is why I call it an idiot. There were multiple things.

She just looked stupid on. I don't think it's that unique. Which part? I don't think it's that unique. Just the fact that she's ignorant to these happenings. I don't think it's as unique as a lot of people think it is. Well, I mean, I would say that we're from the South, and I have family in Tulsa. So I'm aware, I was aware of what happened in Tulsa, the Tulsa massacre,

but I could argue that a lot of black people hadn't heard that. Interesting. Okay. A lot of black people hadn't heard of it. And I'm not trying to bail them out. I'm just trying to highlight why that's a problem, to your point, about the tragedy that happened. We've seen it like Seneca Valley and Rosewood and things like that.

Other communities like that pop up that were erased. And people didn't know. which is why we're fighting the way that we are now because they're trying to make it happen all over again. We're 100 years from now. You didn't know any of this was happening. Never heard of Black Lives Matter. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green.

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Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about trim Faya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trim Faya, including important safety information. All right. So, big NBA news. The Knicks have parted ways with their coach, Tom Tibado, tips, as he is known, in NBA circles.

And this is a coveted job. You have a bona fide star in Jalen Brunson, a big man in Carl Anthony Town. Yeah. utility players like OG, Deuce McBride, you have a good roster to build with, and there is a man.

Yeah. A NBA champion, an NBA All-Star, a third team all-NBA player, the NBA defensive player of the year. His name is Meta, standard for Artes, and he wants to be the head coach

of the New York Knicks, and he is joining us today on higher learning. Meta, how are you doing, brother? My guy, Van, what's good? Hi, Learning. What's good. Rachel, nice to meet you. For sure.

For show. First question. Why should you be the next head coach of the New York Knicks? Well, I'm ready. I'm cerebral. I have high IQ. Not only did I almost, we almost beat the Lakers in 2009 with Yal Ming

when he broke his foot. We took him to game seven. Nobody else took him that far. I was a go-to guy for the majority of my career. But then the next year, I go to the Lakers and play a role, a role player. So I was able to make that adjustment. Let's talk about adjustments. Let's just talk about adjustments.

Let's start there before we get into the meat and potatoes with the gravy. Adjustments is key, right? We're talking about you're going up against the Einstein of coaching in the biggest city of the world. We've seen this story before. Oh, new coach with this group, with this group. New York City, man, we're going to turn it around. We've seen this story before.

And I had to sit back and watch in 1999. If I was in the office in New York City, if somebody said, hey, listen, we're not going to go with Meta. In 1999, I would have said, maybe you shouldn't be here. Maybe take a leave of after us until I retire and we'll bring you back. Same thing. Same thing when I was up for my contract in 2010. I've been trying to come to the Knicks since 99. And really, before that, I'm from the concrete.

You go to Sowing the Whole Project. You go to Gun Hill Project. You go to Gershwin. I played in Gershwin before they had the security. Before, that's when I got my three titles at Gershwin in Brooklyn. So everybody's talking in the city. And I know I'm from the city. You see what I'm saying?

So I got that piece, too. I'm from the city. Now only I'm from the city, Princeton sent me a letter when I was in LaSalle Academy. I was failing my freshman year. I had a 60 average. My senior year, I had a 95 average. I had to study on mob deep block.

I had to do my math outside. Y'all heard the songs. Y'all heard the songs? I was really outside. I was outside. You go to my neighborhood and you can ask questions about me. I'm from the city. So I know I'm from Queens and Brooklyn is proud,

Staten Island's proud, Manhattan, Prouc, Bronx is proud. And, hey, listen, let's put that aside. Let's put that aside. I played in Hamel's in Far Rock. I grew up in 7115 in Far Rock. You understand what I'm saying? I'm from the city. And I went to LaSalle Academy, you know, a whole private school.

I worked hard. I went back to St. John's, look at all-American from New York City. What schools did they go to? They went away. They went away. Arizona, all of that. Okay. Okay.

Stay in New York. Okay. Okay. I'm from New York. I never ran away from the smoke. I already know how New York fans are. I already know how they are because I'm from New York. I like it.

I love the passion. I love that you know the city. Let me say, let me ask this because you know they're talking. You already got the people talking. For the critics who might come in and say, hey, we get that you know the culture. You're from the city. You don't have a lot of coaching experience. What would you say to that?

The narratives, I got 10 years experience. I was coaching. When I left my Lake of practice in 2015, in 2015, I was going to write the Palisades women's practices where I got two championships. That's in the NBA. That's two. Okay, with head coach Torino Johnson.

He's verified. Then after my career, a part-time with the G-League. The end of my career, I was mentoring Julius. I was mentoring the players. I mentor. So I did my mentorship, coached you while in the league, went to the G League,

took some time off from my family because they needed it. That's for sure. I don't think anybody going to fault me for taking time for my family long course. Absolutely. Thank you. Then six years at Cal State, LA,

women's basketball. Six years to date is verified. When I got the Cal State, L.A. under head coach Torino Johnson, they have not been to the NCAA tournament for 20-30. I don't even know how long. we get there, we turn it around,

we went to the tournament two years in a row. And this is now, this is Division II, but it's not my fault. I call coaches, coaches say, hey, Mehta, we're going to bring you in for an interview. I don't want to mention no name because it's not important right now because a Nick Job is the focus. I'm not even going to mention no names

because, honestly, I can't wait to see them across the aisle. These coaches that was like, oh, Mehta, you know, hey, we're going to bring you in. I'm like, all right, cool. I don't mind coming in and doing my thing. No call back. This happened on multiple teams. So people saying the experience,

I feel like I was being positioned not to have the experience. So I had to stay ready. That's why I was coaching at Cal State to stay sharp. You stay sharp. And they can't catch me off guard. And right now, there's no, people can say anything. But when they do their homework, they're going to see a resume that is more ready than a lot of people

that got had coaching jobs. Now, let's talk X's and O's. Did you watch the Eastern Conference Finer, Finals, Knicks versus Pacers. And if you did watch it, what would you have done differently as head coach of the New York Knicks to get the Knicks over the hump against the Pacers who are now in the NBA finals? All right, let me start with the whole, the plan is to win the title that said it's been like that since 99.

The plan is won the title on New York City. I don't got no other plan B. Now, let me also acknowledge that tips did a great job. Anytime the Knicks hire someone, the Knicks is a great organization. they gave me tickets, they treat me well, they invite me to the community events. I loved it and they,

especially the community team. So let me just start there. I didn't know tips. I didn't even know tips was on a hot seat. So this is really surprising. The reason I had to come out, because I'm on vacation on this. I'm in a little city,

little island. And, you know, I had no idea that this was going to happen. You know, I'm at a coffee shop, literally, and I get a notification site, these things move fast. Right.

The agents are. in cahoots. Then they're talking to the agents are talking to the GMs. They talk to the front office. They're talking to their friends. Everybody got agents and players and everybody, I'm not in the loop.

I don't have no circles. I'm a straight line. I don't got circles, no agent. I'm just, and I don't need no head coaches on my staff. You know, I don't need that much support. We're going to come back to the staff, but did you see anything that you would have done different?

Listen, the reason I say that, okay. The reason I say that and I went off tangent, apologize for you giving me this, platform. So the reason I say that, because honestly, I like Tibbs. I don't have anything wrong with, you know, I think, yes, there was some adjustments. That's, that's 100% sure. I just don't want to, I don't want to minimize Tibbs in this moment because that's, I don't think it's fair. Okay. Yeah. You know, my opinion on what I would have done better because I love Tibbs. Now, yes,

there are things. I've seen things on multiple teams, by the way, where these adjustments, that's where Phil Jackson coming to play. That's where playing for Phil Jackson, you see that coming a mile away. We see, we saw that, I saw a thing, but luckily the Pace is one. I'm a Pace, I'm from, I play to Indiana. Right, okay. So let's forget about Timson. You tell me how you would coach this next team based upon the personnel that you see. Yeah, I like it.

They got a lot of dogs. I'm not really into, you know, replacing or seeing, or what player we need. They had enough this year. You understand? Now, the general managers and the front office, they're going to, do what they do. I don't feel like that's my role unless people need input. I feel like when you got a player like J.L. and Brunson, maybe a few adjustments. You know what I'm saying? But a player like Jailen Brunson, that's generational mentality, not even generational talent. That's generational

mentality. You understand? So for that perspective, I mean, they were in, they were in third place. You understand? They were third place for a reason. So it's not, it's not much, you know, you don't want to, you don't want to fix what's not broke. You just got to, it's got to, you adjust and there's not a lot broken. So how is a Ron Arta's team play? How does a meta standard for Artis team play? Well, I'll just say I was the anchor on defense, the majority of my career. How am I not going to be intelligent when I'm the ankle on defense?

Come on, man. These people playing a lot of games, right? How am I not in high-level IQ when most of the teams I played on the defensive strategies was around what I did? So if I said, don't help, that mean don't help. right if I say help that mean help or when I get to Sacramento after my after I left Indiana how do I get the Sacramento a team that was in last place I get there in February out of shape I say we go to the playoffs in February media says no this is all documented

and then we go to the playoffs and in the playoffs I orchestrate the defense with Carlos Williamson as a player how is that not high cute when I'm the go-to guy on offense how is that not high cute did I not lead the team on offense and defense don't let these people fool you. Don't let them fool you. I'm coming in independent. I'm an independent. I'm coming in as an independent,

and they don't like that. Okay. So you coming in as an independent, things move fast. You already said that. Have you put out any feelers with the Knicks front office? Have you maybe talked to some of the players,

putting it out there? Everybody see this? I'm ready. I'm ready. Ain't nothing but a single chair and get to the gym. them and get their work. This ain't this ain't

a rocket sign. We ain't building a Elon Musk rocket. You know? All we doing is, all we doing is signing this signature and coaching. That's easy work.

And everything is out. The reason we hear now because this thing move fast, we know how this move. They make a fire. They hire. We've seen this before. Got to move fast.

So right now, yes, I have sent out messages. And I am not in the note. I don't know anybody with the exception of a few people. I'm not in the no. You know, I'm not in the cahoots. You know how that is when you're doing business, or you're going to do a media deal.

You can't just pop up on the scene. That's years of work, man, right? That's years of work. Yeah. I am not in the know, okay? I'm just going to say that. So imagine trying to sign a media deal. You're ready, but you're not in the know.

I don't even want to be in a no. I'm ready. You know what I don't know. I don't need to be in a know. I'm ready. Who do you think is your biggest competition for the, job.

Oh, I think you're going to say biggest competition for a title. I was going to say win binyana. You can answer that too. You can answer for coaching. I mean, all these coaches are, I'm happy for these coaches. I don't get in these coaches away. Like, you know, as an assistant coach, people say, why not be an assistant? Because I don't have time to be an assistant.

I'm just going to be honest. I'm working under a head coach at Torino Johnson that I'm learning a style, a style that reminds me of Phil Jackson. I'm trying to perfect my craft. So when I'm going up with, I got to coach all these emotional players, I got to be ready for that. You understand? And this is the best. So, you know, I don't, so I think my, I think all the coaches are great.

You understand? Like, I'm happy that they're making money. I'm happy. You can get fired. You make $80 million. Then get fired in that year. And then get fired in that year. Now you made $150 million for getting fired.

Like, that's a brilliant business model. Hey, Vann, that's skill. Meta. So who would you? put on your staff? Who's going to, who would you, you got to build out of staff? There's things you're going to have to do. Who are you going to put on your staff? Who are you going to put on your staff?

You got to build out of staff the way you build out of company and I got easycarelink.com. I built that company from scratch, healthcare nursing. They ain't got nothing to do with basketball. Buttercloth, I'm wearing it right now. Go to buttercloth.com. Nothing to do it. If I can operate, of course I can operate a basketball team, this is what I do. Operations, baby. Architecture,

building the foundation and infrastructure. Understand, that's what you got to do first. You got to understand what you're going up again. You got to also understand what the front office went because you don't control the show, right? So there's a lot of things you got to talk about, but I will say I want to go get some dogs, and I ain't talking about just, you know, jocks,

how people were worried us back in the days, young jocks. I'm talking about dogs that could think on the move. I'm going after dogs because we got one goal here is to win a title in New York City. That goal never changed. It ain't never changed for me. You know, you understand. That's why Kobe wanted me on this team when we had drama.

RIP, my brother. And that's how I learned the triangle in a month. How many times, look when they brought the triangle to New York. What was everybody saying? It's too difficult. It's too tough. They didn't like it. It's too tough because you got to be able to think on a move.

I learned a triangle in a month. Come on now. I would say this about the Knicks. If I was looking at the Knicks from a basketball standpoint and making one criticism of the Knicks is that the Offense is sometimes stacked. Sometimes you do have Jalen Brunson dribbling the ball late into the shot clock. They got a lot of shot makers.

You have Mikhail Bridges. You have other guys there, Duce McBride, who can make shots. But sometimes it seems like they have a stand-around offense. Would you think about bringing in the triangle? Would you think about bringing a little bit more emotion to the offense? What would you do? How would you get the Knicks flowing on offense, get the most out of cat, get the most out of Jalen Brunson? Components.

and components of the triangle, especially now because the league is back. When you look at what's happening with the aggression, we know it, we see it, we're fans, I'm a fan. The league is back. So you can start to bring in these different components. This is why Coach Carlisle is thriving right now. If you look at Coach Carlisle is doing,

he's coaching every possession. That's hard to do. So the league is coming back, right? So from that perspective, the players are a little faster, so you can't quite run the triangle how he ran it in the 2000s. but you can act.

I don't want to give too much away because then I'm going to lose my opportunity to be a head coach for the Knicks, quite honestly. Okay. Now, let me ask you this. Last question for you. That you've been so great with your time. No, thank you.

There are people that might say that maybe the NBA community hasn't been so quick to give you a shot in the head coaching realm or in the coaching realm because of maybe your reputation as a player. Now, I know you.

I know how far you've come. I know how important it was for you to take your mental health and other things like that seriously. What would you say to those people? I don't have anything to say to those people. Honestly, I'm coming to win. Like, when you look at my track record,

you know, yeah, I had different issues. I'm 45, that's 25. That's 20 years ago. And, you know, when you look at my track record, when you look at things that's happening since 2010, the mental health therapist that's on most of the team, teams now. You know, so apparently, so we know players was going through a lot before, but who started

that wave? And one person is one person you're talking to him, right? So that's big change. You talk about social impact. Then you talk about the Citizenship Award. How many people got defensive player of the year and the NBA Citizenship Award? Because, listen, where are we from, I know people don't understand it, but we're seeing people like where I'm from not even make it this far.

So, you know, I made it a little further than what people typically were made. make it. You know, when I, when I was going to St. John, my brother went right to jail for drug trafficking, straight 10 years flat. Like, you understand? So the mindset, my mindset was totally different than any other basketball played mindset. I had to, I had to become a little bit more professional. I was, I was on some other time at that time. And I admit it, honestly. Listen, I'm, people know me. I admit, I admit it. I'm, I'm, I hold myself accountable. I hold myself accountable and I stay focused

because listen I've been preparing a coach too I haven't just went off and just did therapy I did a little bit of that but I also was getting prepared to be a head coach that's my goal

I have a goal to be in a head coach and winning a title so my goal is not really trying to figure out what someone else's opinion is that's why I say respectfully humbly I'm not really thinking

about those people right You're thinking about bringing a title to the mix. I like the mentality. I like the mentality too. Yeah. Now, I see you walking around getting coffee over in Beverly Hills. That's why I see.

Are you ready to move back to New York? Come on, my guy. Come on, that's a yes. Right now. Right now, man. I've been preparing for this for a long time. There's a lot of things I've been doing behind the scenes to prepare to be a head coach. I actually apply.

What's an example of one of those things? Like, sitting in the, like, let me tell you this first. It's only a few places I want to coach. I'm going to be super transparent and honest. Okay.

There's New York, Indiana, Lakers, St. Jones, UCLA, USC of Cal State. That's a division two women's team. Those are very broad, but it's because where I feel comfortable at. It's not because I'm bougie.

It's only because, like, it's just what I'm doing in my life, if that makes sense. Right. Yeah. Now, when those opportunities, opportunities wasn't coming. I couldn't even get a callback

for my own albumata. So when those opportunities wasn't coming, I saw the Bucks job open. I sent the social media DM to the Bucks. I'm like, hey, I would love the head coaching job. And listen, I'm not in the know. I don't have an agent. You know, I didn't get, I didn't get a reply back.

I also sent one for the Charlotte job. You know, I didn't get a response. And I respect it. I'm not going to cry about it. I also sent one for other G-Leat teams and I don't want to go, I don't want to mention anymore. You know, so I can't really, I can't really get upset about it, but I have tried to do things, you know, to push myself forward in a situation where to be looked at as a good coach or a bad coach, you understand?

So I stayed at Division 2, Cal State, LA, and my practices are at 6 a.m. I'm up at 5 a.m. So in terms of being battle tested, no one, you know, getting a million dollar check and flying private, that is not as hard as having no sneaker, no sneaker or shoe endorsement. Our students got a body-owned shoes. We don't have no, this is Division 2. We don't have NIL money. It's Division 2.

So we're on the grind. I'm battle tested as a former NBA player getting on Southwest with my team. Hoping in the van to go drive to the game, you know? You see what I'm saying? So now I'm more battle tested. All right. Meta, look, me and you had a conversation one time and you were telling me about close-out rate

and how you look at defense. I really do feel like you have a place in upper-level basketball, which you're already coaching at Cal State, L.A., but I'm talking St. John's, NBA, all of that. They could use your intensity in your defense. of mine. We are Ford here on Higher Learning. Rachel, by the way, I don't know if you know this.

I'll become a Knicks fan after, I'm already wearing a New York cat. I didn't even put that together. I don't know if you know this. But Rachel is a defensive specialist herself. She was a ball player. I don't mean to brag. Yeah. She was a defensive specialist herself. So, you know, defense, defense. She's on offense a lot on this

podcast, but she's the defensive specialist. Meta, I hope somebody really takes a serious. and gives you a look. I think you just an interview and an opportunity to make your case

of these NBA teams. That is Meta, Sanderford, our test, join us on higher learning. Tell them some of the stuff that you're doing before we get you out of here.

Yeah, I mean, our test management group, that's how operational holding company were doing a lot of stuff there. But other than that, you know,

we're trying to get this Nick head coach's job. All right, we appreciate you joining us on the show today, brother. Thank you. All right.

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So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. services not available in all areas. According to the publisher of her upcoming book, Corrine and Jean-Pierre, who was the former Biden press secretary, she announced that she's leaving the Democratic Party and she's going to become an independence. The book's description says that she's writing about the betrayal

by the Democratic Party that led to Biden's decision to abandon his re-election bid. It's coming out in October. So first of all, shout out to Legacy Lit. Creshaun Tram. Is that who's doing it? That's who's doing it. my publisher of the ill-fated book, Fat Crazy and Tired.

Rachel, what you got? Why do you yourself like that? This is interesting to me because there's a lot of criticism to the fact that she announced that she's writing a book. And at first, I understood it, right? I was like, oh, okay, I don't mind that she's writing a book. I just don't really like how she's going about it so far in regards to, how it's been teased with the thing that's drawing people in is that she's leaving the Democratic Party to become an independent. And then she also seems to kind of want to talk about or blame the Democrats

for their betrayal and how they handled the push out of Biden. I'm paraphrasing, but that's kind of what's teased. So that's why I say, I'm not sure I agree with how she's going about it. I understand trying to sell a book. But the contradiction of you weren't. the face of the Democratic Party in the sense of you were the voice. You were communicating what was going on in the White House to the entire country. That is your job. We're supposed to trust the things that you're saying and that you're putting out there and think that it's as if we're talking to the White House through you. So for now, for you to come out and say that you're an independent is very confusing. Also, that you're teasing that maybe you're looking at Biden as a victim on all

of this and you're condemning the party, which you represented to the public as a face for four years. That I don't necessarily agree with. The other side of it is interesting to me because people are dogging her for writing a book, which she is not the first former press secretary to write a book, and dogging her and saying all these things about how she really just wanted to be famous and she was going to all these events and she was eyeing a spot on the view. And it's like, well, Jen Saki has a show on NSNBC. This is what people do. They further their political career, whether they write a book or they're some type of political analysts. These are the things that people do. They move on

in the political space in other areas. It would make sense as the press secretary that she might be on a television show. So I find it interesting that all of a sudden people are piling in on her character personally as when other people who didn't look like her. And I'm saying that she's a black woman did the same thing. A couple of things. One, if you read the political reporting, people always make it seem like that they had a problem way back when. And that's certainly what they're doing now. That she had made jokes about becoming an independent.

even before. And they didn't think that these jokes were, that there was any substance to them. Now they see that there's some, there was something to the jokes. So different way you can look at it. Number one, I'm not so sure if she viewed herself as the face of the Democratic Party.

She was certainly the face. A face. She's the face of the White House. Communication. Right. Which could be a reason. reason why she's at odds with the Democratic Party. If she was the face of the White House and she was loyal to the president, then she sees

President Biden his ass kicked and be ousted by the party and be betrayed by the party, which is, I guess, what is going to come out in this book, then maybe she's actually becoming an independent because of her loyalty to Joe Biden and to the Biden administration and all the people that worked around her with that. Maybe she's becoming an independent because the press secretary becoming an independent is a good way to sell books. Trump's press secretary came out after the Trump administration, wrote a book, talking about how uncomfortable she was in the Trump administration while she was delivering all of this stuff to the Trump administration, delivering all this messaging. She was excoriated by Republicans when she did that. She is going to be excoriated by

Republicans when she did that because it's going to be seen as a betrayal to the party. Okay. So her coming out and doing this at this particular point and getting flack and heat from it, that's not that big of a deal for me. I mean, the original sin came out and a lot of people read the book, but within the Democratic Party circles, Tapper got due. destroyed for writing the original sin. They looked at it as a betrayal.

I don't know why they would look at a news person writing the book as a betrayal. He's a reporter. And a news guy, they're going to write books. They're going to report on things. They're going to grab information and try to put it out there. But a lot of people were very upset. I see Keith Oberman. This is not a diss at Keith Oberman, which I don't really like fuck with him anyway.

But, yeah, I see Keith Oberman dissing Jake Tapper. I see people dissing the book all the things. the time saying that the book itself is a money grab. You know, when did Jake Tapper know what he knew? Yeah. John Stewart went off on it. It's a valid question. So I see people making these observations in the case of him and in the case of her.

Obviously, when someone is a black lady and they come out and they do something that's going to be controversial, the sensitivities that are involved with that, I'm never going to discount those, and that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm saying I bet she thought that she was going to get some of the smoke that she's getting. I bet that they expected that smoke and that smoke was going to come at her anyway. I do also think that both original sin and this book are indicative of the fact that there's not a lot of structure with the Democrats right now. And what I mean is that this book coming out about her leaving the party, the original sin coming out, means that there's no one at the top

of the Democratic Party right now that either Corrine or Jake Tapper have to be afraid of. Right? Like, if you come out and you speak ill of Trump and you hope to have a future with the party that you're in, it's a non-starter.

You can't do it. If you come out and you diss somebody at the top of a diss the person at the top of the Republican Party right now, you are persona non grata, you are outcast. Right now,

people are trying to jump off the Democratic ship, the Joe Biden ship, the entire deal, because the presidency seemed to be just much more fraught than what we were led to believe. And I'm sorry,

that makes me fucking living. We have, had Democrats on this podcast. We had people come on here and straight up fucking lie. Straight up fucking lie. Whatever would have happened,

I would have voted for Kamala Harris. I would have voted for Kamala Harris because I believe that black children in Alabama and Louisiana need clean water. I believe in voting rights. I believe in bodily autonomy. I believe in things policy-wise.

that align me with a certain group of people and certain politicians. As far as the cult of personality with any one politician, couldn't care less. I'm not with anyone, or I'm not team anyone, or I'm not any of that stuff. I'm team black children, clean water, voting rights, bodily autonomy.

I'm team Medicare. I'm team Snap. I'm team social safety net. That's the team that I'm off. Not any political, party or any politician. However, the people who are on those

teams are fucking liars. Now, I'm not going to moralize and act like I don't spin a yarn and tell a lie. But I am going to say when you, when the stakes are as high as what they were in the election

and people needed real information from people that they were supposed to trust about how the people that are fighting for the clean water and fighting for their bodily autonomy and fighting for the voting rights and fighting for the criminal justice reform. When it was time to be honest about who was in charge and how well they were doing and how cogent they were, they fucking lied.

This is, I agree with you completely. And this is why I was saying at the top, I don't mind that she's writing a book. I have a problem and how she's going about it. The blurb for your book is I'm an independent and the reason being is because I feel a betrayal by the Democratic Party in regards to how they ousted Biden and had him step down so Kamala could come up. I have a problem with that because it is pretty,

because I'm on this podcast, I was the one saying, Biden, Biden, Biden, you know, because I am believing what you're saying, telling you. If it was that bad at the time I thought, if it was that bad, surely he wouldn't have run again. Surely there would have been people like a Kareen or other people who are around him who would have told him that you're not up for the job and we need to have somebody else do it. She didn't, she could, it doesn't, even if she didn't, we would know because it sounds like based on this book, that is not what she believes. So I agree with you. This is why I have

a problem with this. Well, I expect her to do it. But no, no, no. She might not have done it. But I shouldn't have even said it like that. Because the book, the way she's promoting this book is that she believes the party betrayed Biden. And from what we know now, Biden was not in the right place to run for president in 2024. So I'm looking at this book and what she's doing, like, how can we even trust anything that you're putting in this book? Because we now know what was going on and you were part of the machine that was protecting that.

And you're doubling down on it to present day. In present day, I mean. Well, I'm halfway through original sin. It's definitely an interesting read. Shocking in a lot of respects. I suppose that I will read this book when it comes out.

I've reached out to Creshaun to have her on. I'm assuming she's going to go many different places. We'll see what she has to say. Who? You mean Corrine? Yeah. You said Chrishan.

I've reached out to Creshawn, Trotman, who is the, she's the head of Legacy Lit where this book is to get in touch with Corrine. We don't know. Well, I said shout out to Creshawn earlier in the thing. All right. There you go. Leave it all in. Leave it all in. Okay.

I said Chrisan's name earlier on, but I get it. I feel you. So we'll see. I don't really have a problem with people who like writing books and all that stuff, but this entire scramble to distance themselves from the messaging that they gave

Americans, some of the most vulnerable Americans for the last four years is But she's not. It's a gauly. But she's not. Well, like I got to get into the book. Everybody write your books. Do your stuff.

But, you know, we need to identify the political operatives or the people. And obviously there's some, I love to read Dropside News. I love to read the nation. I love to read a lot of other places that are, I mean, the nation's pretty mainstream, but a lot of other places that really delve into these things. But stuff suit political operatives that come on here and tell the party line, no more. Oh, they're not welcome?

on. I, well, not to me. If you want to have them on, obviously, we can have them on. But I need people who are going to tell the fucking truth to the fucking audience. But I can't tell you, I know a lot of people, I hit these people up on the side. Yo, is everything going okay? They're like, yeah, yeah, everything's great. The liars.

They're lying. It's a lie. All right, let's switch gears. We're in Pride Month. And in honor of Pride Month, the NFL's official Twitter account posted this video of a bunch of statements that affirm the sports is inclusivity. Statements like football is gay, football is lesbian, football is exciting, football is queer, bisexual, transgender, football is American, accepting, etc.

Des Bryant, formal Dallas Cowboy tweeted in response to this video, football is gay, football is queer, football is transgender. These are wow statements to make. Excuse my silliness. I'm going to proudly tell my boys football is none of these things. I have nothing against the gays, but this is far from right. is gay players in the NFL, but forcing it in people's faces, especially children, can send the wrong message.

Football is a real community, like the gay community. Imagine telling gays they have to advocate for straight people. They probably would have a problem. He says that. Brandon Jacobs jumped in. Says, I stand with my dog on this. Stop pushing shit on people. The ones who are live your life,

but stop trying to make other people accept this. All right. So I know Des Bryant a little bit. I have to always say that. I don't know Brandon Jacobs a little bit. I know he's from Louisiana. So, you know, always give deference to my Louisiana brothers. So you have to push it on people.

You have to. Everything must be pushed. It has to be pushed. The LGBTQ plus message must be pushed. Every message involving anything that challenges the status quo in America must be intentionally pushed. You have to say, we are here. We are a part of this.

You can't leave it up to people to come to their senses about inclusivity, not here in this country. In order for black people to get civil rights, they had to go sit in restaurants where they weren't allowed. They have to say, we exist, we're here, deal with it. That is the way. The gay rights, I'm not even going to use the A word, the gay rights, plight and movement has to be pushed.

It must be pushed. Women's rights must be pushed. Black rights must be pushed. It must be intentionally pushed. We can't wait for mainstream. or dominant culture to wake up and accidentally

believe in the equality of all people. It has never worked that way in any society ever to where people came to their senses without being kicked in their asses about the wrong that they were doing. When you say that it's wrong, why is it wrong?

If everything's okay, why is it wrong? Why is it wrong to push it? Why is it wrong to do it? Why is it wrong? Why would it be wrong? I would be wrong. It's funny. You know, it's like,

I tweeted something a long time ago, right? And it was of Minnie Mouse kissing Mickey Mouse and it was of a Daisy Duck

kissing Daffy Duck. It was of the characters, the cartoon characters that we love, with their little girlfriends. Right? And this was in response to either Spider-Man or Superboy kissing a guy.

I think it was Superboy kissing a guy. And they were like, why does Superboy have to have a boyfriend? Like, why do you have to throw that in somebody's face? Well, my question is like, why the normalization of something is the way that people are seen and respected and counted and included? It's the way that you do it. That's how you do it. You have to normalize it. You have to normalize it.

You have to normalize it. I'll say it already has been normalizing. It's done a great job. But you have to normalize it. And when you say, we don't need this in our face. What you're saying is get these people to fuck out of you. That's what you're saying. Yes.

The reason you have to push it and you have to keep doing it as you said is because of people like Des Bryant and Brandon Jacobs. Des Bryant is homophobic. Brandon Jacobs is homophobic. And I know they don't think they are because they make statements like Brandon Jacobs said is, you know, the ones who are live your life. So they feel they're not homophobic because they're not saying I'm anti-gay people and you can live the life what you want. But what they don't understand is that you by you saying, stop. pushing this shit. When Des Bryant says

you're forcing it, you are minimizing and dehumanizing these people. That's homophobia. And you are so blinded by your deep rooted homophobia that you've missed the entire point

of what the NFL was doing in its messaging. They were saying, as Donnie pointed out, when he read this prompt, or he prompted up, he said, football is inclusive and it's for everyone. And that literally is the point of the messaging. Football is for everyone.

That's it. They're not forcing anything on you. They're saying, come as you are. We want everybody, no matter who you are, what you represent, to enjoy the game of football. That's it. That's their messaging. But your homophobia won't let you see it any other way.

And this is why it's important to talk about this because some people, like a Brandon Jacobs, might see Des Bryant's messaging and say, I don't have a problem with what he said. Stop throwing it in our face. They're not throwing anything in your face. They're just being who they are. And the NFL wasn't throwing anything in your face.

They were saying, we're for everybody. And that's it. Football is gay, by the way. Okay. Okay. This goes back to where I was talking about earlier. It goes back to what I was talking about earlier. man. I'm just being for real.

Like, look, if you said it right to them. Like, you said it right. Yes, it is. Football is gay. They're a lot. They're gay guys. Everything is everything. America is gay. The only reason I'm pushing. Everything. Football is gay.

If football is gay, football is trans, football is all of those things. There's a lot of gay, trans people who play, watch, love football. Yes, it's inclusive. It's just the whole point. They missed it.

You know, Des, tell him he missed it. It's your job to tell him he missed it. Tell him he's homophobic. Well, we'll see if we can have him on because I'm sure he'll be interested in coming on after this. We'll see if we... I mean, he probably will. We'll see if we can have him on,

but we do need to communicate as brothers about these issues. And the reality is we need to confront and deal with some of the things that maybe maybe we haven't.

And these ideas are sometimes persistent because we're not forced to come to terms with them. Wells we got, Donnie. God damn it, Donnie. We can skip Russell, I think. Yeah.

Okay, let's do that. Let's talk about the new Blick Panther. What's happening? The premier issue of Marvel Knights, the world to come, just was released and it introduced his new character whose name is Katama.

And in that issue, it looks like Tachala has fathered Katama with an earlier love interest. And Katima, he grows up to resent Tchala, challenges him for the throne, and he defeats Tachala in battle. And then, After the battle, Katima removes his mask to reveal that he is, in fact, a white man.

He looks white, yeah. He's white. He's white. He's, he's, wait, wait, wait, wait. Ben said he looks white. Donnie said he is white. He has blonde hair, blue eye, but allegedly half black. Not saying that you can't be.

No, not saying, okay, let me be clear. You're right. I'm not saying that you can't be half black and have blonde hair and blue eyes. But it is an interesting choice that those are, when they can choose the features in this comic, because this is not a real person, that this is what they decided to choose. Please note also that the guy who's behind it is black. Now, help me understand this, because this is out of my realm. I was shocked that this was a black man was behind all of this. Well, there are certain different ways to understand, right?

Well, I'm going to defend it from a couple of different purviews. One is from the comics preview. When is the last time Rachel Lindsay talked about a Black Panther comic? Never. So they got us talking about a Black Panther comic. A couple of years ago, Steve Rogers, who you might know is Captain America, said, hell hydra. And everybody was like, oh, my God, has Steve Rogers been a hydra agent this entire time?

what is the way to make people care about a Captain America comic book and not on the screen then to have him go hell hydrant. 1992, 93, 94, I can't remember I bought the book but I can't remember when it happened.

Donnie, look it up. The death of Superman. Superman comic books had stalled out. Some people say that Superman is not a contemporary character that he represents a character or an ethos that is more closely linked to, it was 92, more closely linked to the golden age of

Conno books and the golden age of America. So death of Superman. They kill Superman, bring back four different Superman. You have to decide which Superman is the actual Superman. What happened to Superman? Dooms they killed him. What would be the way to make people care about a Black Panther book

that you want people to care about for a new run? It would be. Care? Care? Care. Yeah. We're just talking about.

Okay. What difference to him? It's the same shape. I don't care. I don't care. Like now, but it peaked your interest. Care in the sense that it's like, oh, Black Panther is white. What the fuck is going on?

You know why it peaks my interest? Your analysis is peaking. You're making me actually more interested in it. I would have never put this topic in the rundown. You make, I understand. interested now because of your tape. So comic books will do stuff

like this to make people go, okay, how do we subvert the expectations of people with this character? And now you got to look at Tachala, like, okay, who was Tachala fucking on that, you know,

created this kid? Is this kid actually Tachala's son? Do we know this? Like, do we know this for sure? what is happening where an actual white man is running Wakanda and after years and years of speculation

on on Twitter that Ryan Gosling should play to China I saw this you see that before that White Panther they come back and they actually give you

that thing you know and so it it was a really as soon as I saw this I went well-played. So you're not at all bothered

that the Black Panther is not black. So if there was a Black Panther 3 and it is Ryan Gosling, you're not upset. Okay, so by the way, Tachala has had like, he's fucking with some white women in the comics. Well, yeah, when I read this, I thought, oh, the writer must be an RG3 fan. Oh, come on.

man. Don't do. See, that was, that was, that was, that was a gratuitous shot for no you. Do I? That was it, that was, that was, that was a gratuitous, that was a gratuitous shop for no reason. It was too easy. Come on, man.

You like. Come on, man. But, but, so when I saw this, I'm like, oh, okay, now this, I don't know if people are going to run. I'll tell you what, this is who this is for. This is actually not for you. It's for me. I'll tell you why.

There's nothing that they could do to get you to buy a Black Panther book that you haven't been read because... That's true. That's true. Right. But for me, somebody who has read Black Panther, but might not be on every single issue and every single run that's coming out now, particularly after Tanahasa Coast is run, which was really great.

I'm not saying it wasn't good. I'm saying like that. So I was, oh, my God, I want to see what he does with the character. But now I am going to go out and buy this book. and buy these books and read this run. Because I have to know what happens, right? I have to know what happens. So I'm going to go out and buy this.

So the lax comic fan that hasn't been reading it and leaves the book in their hand that's not going to go on comicsology and get it or anything like that. I'm going to go out and buy it. But like, I don't know that this says anything culturally. It's just funny. And then the kid whooped Black Panther's ass in the panel.

He beat Black Panther up. Black Panther actually, actually not really. Black Panther was kind of trying to let him slide. But this thing was like, um, um, and in the book, while he was beating Black Panther up, Morgan Wallen was playing in the background.

He's kicking Black Panther's ass to that Morgan Wallen. Morgan Wallen has had quite the inward renaissance, right? I thought the inward thing were hurting him. They don't give a fuck. They fuck with Morgan Wallen. Yeah, all he did was say, you know what,

I'm going to team up with some black rappers and we're going to make some music that they're going to dance to. They line dance in the Morgan Morgan Wallen. Morgan Wallen might be the Black Panther. That might be him. But yeah, anyway, it's funny. It's funny.

A lot of people were very mad about it, though. Very mad. Yeah, at first glance, I mean, I was, I think I was like, wait, what? And with the death of Chadwick Bowman, I think it's even more, it hurts even more. It's like, wait a second. So what's happening? I think, look, couldn't he have that brown hair? So now he's blackish.

Couldn't he have that brown hair, brown eyes? That's white. Red hair. Red hair. That's the elite. Handa. It would be interesting. I want to see what he does with Wakanda.

If you put a white man in. You know what he's going to do. He's going to get rid of the department. He's going to get rid of the Department of Education. He's going to rewrite history. There'll be no to Chala. They'll be no. Come on.

We know. We know. We know. They're about to have stage coach in Wakanda. Project 2020 2020. Wakanda style. Man, can you imagine if all of the technology

in Wakanda? See, because here's the thing about Wakanda. They're going to be zapping black folks, bleaching of turning them white. And this is where Kilmonga was coming from. The Wakandans, I'm serious. The Kilmonga must be pissed.

The Wakandans, they don't really give a shit about that diaspora shit. they're sitting on a mountain of money and they don't want you fucking with them. You're getting fucked over, Bat Rouge, Richmond, Jacksonville,

Oakland, in the movie, Los Angeles, Oak Cliff. Ohioondas don't give a fuck. We don't fucking care. All right? We're non-interventionists, okay?

But with a white leader, that's different. They're going to put They motherfucking footprint everywhere. War dogs everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere.

Wakanda going, Australia going to be Wakanda. Wakanda telling you, you don't want a white man in charge of Wakanda. That's not what you want. See, black people will chill. Hey, y'all niggas got some problems. That's on y'all. But if a white man had all of that vibranium...

It would be gone. It would be gone. They would run out. It would be done. Tell me. All right, last one. This is what the gender wars. Donnie, play the clip.

Yeah, let's just listen to what Sarah Fontenot had to say. But what I will say is some of these women are brokies, too. And what I mean by that is all they have to offer is their body. You empty. If all you have to offer is, that's prostitution. Man. If you get it after a meal, it's straight up prostitution. I don't know if I could say that.

But I said it and I meant it. And I said it from my chest. If all you want is what a man can do from you. Yeah, if all you want is what a man can do for you. If all you want is the dating experience, get it how you live in, boo. But we all know it's a transaction. There's nothing wrong with that. But also, you know what?

I don't care about the lifestyle. I care about the entrepreneurial young women that are looking up to these girls and the Chanel shoes and the Bentley trucks and the, and I have a lot of those things. However, I have real businesses. They laying on their backs. acting like their entrepreneurs. And that's my struggle. I'm just saying, yeah, you know.

Throwing it back. You know? Rachel? I do not agree with her. I saw a comment that said something like she's just angry because she had to work hard for those Chanel bags, those shoes. I don't know if I agree with that. But my biggest problem with the conversation that she's having, that she's leading,

is that she takes away the idea of choice. from these women. She makes it seem like they don't want, if you choose to have sex with someone for whatever reason, that's your choice, right? I'm not going to be mad about that and I'm not going to judge you for that. Even if it's maybe not what I do, I'm not going to judge you. That is a choice. Also, she is assuming that just because these women go on dates or they may pursue a certain type of man and that man may give them certain things, that that means that they had to have sex to get that. That's also a huge assumption.

That's not true. I can tell stories from both sides of it, from people I know that have had both. My personal experience, I've gotten things from guys without having to sleep or do any type of sexual favor. So to assume that one thing equals the other is extremely highly judgmental. And we're also shaming women for the choice that they may have and making it seem like it's only a woman who should feel that way and not a man. If it's transactional for a woman who says, hey, I'm going to sleep with this man because I want that. It's also transactional for the man on his part.

This is a very short-sighted conversation that she's having. And when I saw this, I was like, oh, this is disappointing. Because you really are making it seem like women don't have, women can't choose to do these things. If they do, then they must be going about it in only one particular way. That's wrong. Huh. I don't really care about what people do. So I don't really give a fuck if people are having transactional relationships and stuff like that,

as long as they can handle it. If you're having a transactional relationship, man or woman, if you can handle it, it's fine. Don't endeavor into it and then be like, oh, my God, all this other person wants is one thing for me. don't get to the point to where you like, oh my God, that's all you care about. Yeah, that's all they care about. That's all they care about is as. That's all they care about is money. That's all they care about.

So be okay with it. If you're okay with it, cool. Now, if you're kind of not okay with it and you want somebody to see something more, get out of the transactional relationship, you're not cut out for it. Right? But if you're okay with it, go for it. Also, no has to be a part of the equation. No, I don't want to fuck.

No, I don't want to pay. No, I don't feel like fucking. I don't feel like doing it, whatever, whatever. Doesn't matter that you bought me, whatever, whatever. Hey, you need something? No, can't do it. No, can't do it. For whatever reason, I just don't feel like it.

No, can't do it. You know, so, I mean, as far as anything else, I think a lot of this comes from people's unwillingness to look at things the way they actually are. You know, it's, to me, like, I hear women say all the time that no woman wants a man who is, women want a man that is doing better than them. I hear that all the time, right? And really, if there wasn't some financial component into desirability for a man, that wouldn't be a thing. There just is. Women like men who have money, they do.

All right. And that is a part of it. That is the way they've been socialized, the way that they've been brought up, the way that they orient to the world a lot of the time. Not all women. not all women. A lot of the time. A lot of the time that's the way it looks at. That's why when you find a woman

who is really into, looks at society differently, like wholly differently, they tend to, like, not put that at the top of the list, right? And then there are men who are the same way, who men are very driven by women who are sometimes docile,

you know, beautiful, who are like they like that because they're socialized to believe that a woman should make their kingdom more orderly. That's why when you get a guy who actually is interested in partnership and is interested in collaboration and is interested in exalting or listening, it's a very important thing to appreciate that and cultivate more men like that. I think both people, and I'll say this, I think men are a lot more collaborative than they get credit for, and I think women are a lot less materialistic than they get credit for, but both of those things are real things, right?

But yeah, so it's like, whatever. If you go out with somebody, you go out with a woman, and you ask her to split the bill, you're going to get looked at and talked about because it's your job as a man to split the bill, to pay the bill. But also, you are a man that makes more money than this woman, probably because of patriarchy.

So splitting the bill is kind of a cultural tax for the fact that you make more bread, that you have more opportunity, that you have more power. It all comes out in the wash. Also, you asked me on this date, so whatever. Maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe not

Maybe not Maybe not But even if she's like Hey we should go out sometime That nigger Bet not At least at first Let her pay

Even if she says Hey we should go out sometime When are we gonna go to dinner Oh you're right At least at first That nigga bet not let her pay I always go back to the gift card thing From TMZ

The women The ladies in the office were mad if a guy plays with a gift card. Oh, that's not as big a deal to me. So if a guy paid for a gift card, if you went on with a first date with a guy and he paid with a gift card, you would be crazy?

Not the first time. I'd be like, oh, he cuts a gift card to this restaurant, maybe he got a first birthday. Now, if the second date he pays with another gift card, I'd be like, I was like, I got a money. He ain't got money. What? time you get a pass, okay?

Like, maybe you have a gift card. You need to get rid of it. Fine. That doesn't bother me. You got to get, you got to make space for, I guess, the other side of it. So I could be like, okay, fine, that's fair. But twice, you can ride the bull once. Maybe.

Let's get the fuck out of here. All right. Take 10 caps off, but do not stop learning. Lathie Jr. Thank you to Meta World Peace for joining us. I hope he gets to Nick's job. I'll get tickets. If he gets to Nick's job, I'll get tickets. If he gets to Nick's job, we'll court side. We're courtside. We're courtside. It's that all starting here. That's right. I'm Rachel Lindsay. Bye, guys. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Because behind every headline is a bottom line.

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