Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Michael Harriot and the End of Affirmative Action

Episode Date: June 30, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay are joined by journalist, author, and cultural critic Michael Harriot to react to the Supreme Court's ruling that strikes down affirmative action (4:11) before they switch gears and address a relationship story out of the world of ‘No Jumper’ (1:10:07). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Michael Harriot Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, it's my boyers. What is up? How I learning this on is I, Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Okay. Just to let you guys know. We're recording this greeting after we've already recorded the podcast. So, the podcast is true.

That's why it's flat. Okay. I don't know why I was so affected by the kick in the ass that the Supreme Court gave us today. but I'd like to warn everybody that I'm not at my best today. Okay. A little daddy. Rachel is always on the ball.

Where are you right now, Rachel? Where are you? I'm in Dallas. I'm at the judges. What did the judge say about the Supreme Court decision? What do you say? No comment. No comment from the judge.

I'm not going to say. I'm not going to say. Because he, Because it, like, he, you know, he's a, he's a judge. So, like, he could be, it could be controversial. It could be controversial. I would just say that I feel like you're feeling this kicking the ass because now it's real. Right?

We were just talking about it. It was looming. But now it's real. It's the law of the land. That's why it's kicking it. And that's why it's hard to accept. that's why I'm upset and that's why you're not okay.

Well, you know what it is? We have Michael Harriet on the show today. We all have very many topics today. We talk about this and we meander and I say. And then we just lose. We just lose it after. Just lose it after Michael leaves. We'll do a poor job of laying things out.

The facts is whatever, man. And then at the end, I think we talk about Adam 22 and Lena the plug from No Jumper. so if you guys care about that, just stick around. But so I'll say, you know, it's,

maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill and probably am, you know, Charlemagne says, a band overreacts to everything. And I do.

I do because it's, I'm just, I'm sick of the bullshit. You know what it is? Let me tell you something, Rachel, real quick. Okay, tell me. You ready for this?

I'm ready. Are you ready to get what I'm, you ready to pick up what I'm putting down right now, Rich? I got it. I got you. Okay, I'm 43 years old.

Mm-hmm. And let me tell you where I'm at my life. I'm at the point in my life where I realize I won't change the world. However, I do still feel the need to make sense of it. So it's an interesting place to be in. Because before you think, after me, things are going to be different. and then you realize things are the way they are

and people are working so hard to keep them that way. Then you think well even if I can't do anything there'll be some solace in understanding why things are the way they are. That'll work. And as hard as you try

you just can't fucking understand. So you're just floating on the rock, made a stardust, trying to finish it out. Do you got anything for me, Rachel? Okay, I'm not going to pick that up, but what I am going to do is throw to our great interview

with Michael Harriet. On the other side of this brain. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis? may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you?

Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, gusalcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy,

and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information.

The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the final with Banduel predict. predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool.

Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Okay, so it happened. we were looking to dreading, anticipating the Supreme Court decision regarding affirmative action in higher education. It had been challenged by a group led by a political activist named Edward Bloom, students for fair admissions. Different suits were always to Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has struck down race-based considerations. in admission.

There's been a lot of discussion about this, what it means. Does this put cracks in affirmative action, not just in higher education, but also in the workplace? What does this mean and how far back did this set us? We have joining us right now, literally, one of the most brilliant brothers in this. entire culture. Someone who I've been a big fan of for a very, very long time. We just did the whole I'm a fan, you're a fan thing, but I don't think he understands just how much we all look to him

to help us make our opinions and make sense of this crazy world, a writer, journalist, a poet, an author, storyteller, reading that from his own bio. But most importantly, a very smart man. Michael Harriet is joining us today. He's going to help us talk about this a little bit. First question to you, my brother. I'll know you guys will be talking about this over at the grill and stuff, but my first question to you is, what was your initial response when you heard the Supreme Court decision come down? Well, so my initial response, I had expected it. I think everybody kind of expected it to happen. So it wasn't a surprise. You know, I think the waiting game was just to see how they were going to frame. They've been preparing for this since Ronald Reagan. Clarence Thomas, you know, I think it's important to remember that Clarence Thomas was put on the Supreme Court to do this. If you look at this makeup of the Supreme Court, you know, people who like to say conservative or liberal or appointed by a Democrat or appointed by a Republican.

but what each of those justices hold, especially conservative justices, are specialties. Amy Comey-Bryant was put on the Supreme Court to strike down abortion. She accomplished her goal. John Roberts, the voting rights act. That was his entire judicial crusade was against that, right? And Clarence Thomas was put here to strike down affirmative action. You know, Clarence Thomas never wrote. an opinion until he, you know, the Supreme Court started hearing these kinds of cases.

And he issued one of his longest opinions ever today. So I don't think that anybody was surprised. We expected it. And it came to pass. First off, I just want to say I'm a big fan too. I don't get to say that that often with our guests on the podcast. But I'm a big fan of everything that you do. You tweeted out. And you talked about, you know, you told people, listen, before you begin your think piece on all of this. And I'm just paraphrasing what your tweet is. You talked about admission preferences for legacies, donors, employee families, and special recommendations. And you talked about how those are still allowed.

And ever since I've seen your tweet, I've seen this growing discussion that people are taking that and running with it. And people are talking a little, I mean, even more about that in a way that I feel like they were before. What are, can you talk more about your thoughts on, on that? And even more so if you think that because people are talking about it even more, if there may be challenges to that in the future. And if there are challenges, do you think that they will be successful? Yeah. So for years, I've been hoping that someone would challenge those policies.

In 2019, a group of economists, you know, people always think that I'm a, you know, maybe an English major or a history major. Like, my master's degree is in macroeconomics. So I'm a real big fan of it. I taught a class, a college course called Race as an Economic Construct. And so in 2019, I talked to a group of economists who had a working paper that looked specifically at Harvard and Ivy League. admissions. And they classified, they took this group of things called ALDC. Athletes, people who got in because they were athletes. Legacies, people who got in because their family members were at Harvard. Donors, people who families donated a big chunk of money. And then people who were children of the

employee seat, ALDCs, right? And they found that 42% of the white people at Ivy League colleges, got in through ALDC admissions. So the white people get the affirmative action. Only 17% of black people got into college on anything close to what you can consider affirmative action, right? And so I asked the researchers, hey, so if you removed these loopholes, how would that change the racial makeup?

And it was like, oh, it was like the number of white people would go down and either, depending on which one you remove, the black people and the Asians would either stay the same or rise. So white people get into college on affirmative action much more than black people or Hispanic people or non-white people. So the Supreme Court didn't strike down race-based admission policies. They struck down the ones that only help non-white people. And I think that's important to point out because there's this. what I call the merit myth that, you know,

black people get in because of loopholes or white people get in because they're smart and, you know, they're good students and they study hard. And that's not the case. Most of the people in college who got in through a loophole or white. You know, I want to come back to some numbers and figures on that in a second,

but I want to stay on the cultural side of this real quick. Because I think I do think to the point that you're making right now that the intellectual interrogation of this is going to reveal some things and to anyone who has any sort of curiosity

some truths that I don't think that people are aware of and maybe dispel some myths as we dive a little bit deeper into this and that's why it's important to continue to have the conversation. But I want to have, like, I want to ask you about something that I'm starting to see and that it's a concern of mine. There is, I watched something on CBS earlier this morning.

And when I watched it, I thought it was interested in the way that it was positioned. They were having a conversation about this issue and I was watching as much stuff as I could on it. And they went from an African-American, a black American, shall I say, a black American young lady who was

an undergrad at Duke. She was explaining why affirmative action at these higher institutions is important. And then they cut to an Asian-American

student who's going to Brown next year. And he argued the other side. I thought that that was interesting because that's a direct positioning

of this is one side of it and this is another side of it. And there was an adversarial nature to it. And when I'm looking up and down my timeline, what I'm seeing is a lot of resentment from black folks to people in the Asian American community because they feel like they took a shot at them and kicked them out of Harvard and Princeton and Yale. What do we do about that, Michael? And where are we doing? And where? do those people put those emotions because there are fires that are being stoked here that I don't

think that some of the people, or maybe they did know, whether or not these things we're going to bear out like they are right now, but I see it happening. Yeah. So that is a concern, right? Because we know when you look at history, when you look at the culture, like we are the target of everybody. Like every time black people take a step forward, the positioning of the narrative is that we're taking something from somebody, whether it's white people, whether it's Asian people. And the important thing to remember now is that all of the stuff that we talk about when we talk about the disparities in education don't apply to the Asian people. And I know we like to call it like white supremacy when the correct word is anti-whiteness, anti-black.

Because white supremacy and racism is different than anti-blackness, right? So Asians don't aren't reduced to redline neighborhoods. Most Asians don't live in red-line neighborhoods. Even when redlining was a thing, right? Asian neighborhoods weren't worse to live in for banking standards. You could still get a mortgage in Asian neighborhoods. they were, depending on which state it was, they weren't subjected to the Jim Crow, but that legacy did not follow them, right? So when you erase those laws for every other group in America, right?

When you make them legally equal, you kind of erase the disparities, but that's what lingers on with black Americans is that stigma that extends from the history of slavery. Now, my point is always that, yeah, Asian people were at the front of this lawsuit. Yeah, you know, there's that same discussion to a degree with like African and Caribbean immigrants. And yeah, their outcomes are better in the American. There's statistically no way to, you know, argue against that. Like, people who come to America in general have a better statistical outcome. My point is always, yeah, but white people did that, right? Like they constructed a system where as long as they benefit from it, other people,

they don't care if the Asians benefit. They don't care if the Hispanics, because, you know, they're going to co-op. Now, first it was Hispanic. Now it's, you know, non-white Hispanics versus, you know, just Hispanics, I guess. And so we are at the bottom of every consideration. so everybody else who even gets close to the proximity of equality and whiteness wants to step on our neck to get it's closer. And even when they do it, we have to understand that white people did that.

If we dismantle the policies that white people are trying to wield as a cudgel against black people, all of those Asian people, nothing will change for them. Nothing's going to happen to the Hispanic people. Nothing's going to the people that they are targeting with those policies. We are the steps for them. And whoever does it, yeah, you can look at the agents and say, yeah, they used you. But this case is a win for white supremacy and white people.

Yeah. And I guess this would be a question for both of you, Van, because you brought this up. is there not being any discussion towards that? Because to me, and we kind of talked about this as we knew that this was about to come up and how it all came about. But is there not being any, there's not any discussion on the fact that, you know, this student, this Asian student was being used for these purposes. And the fact that the purpose behind it is to not blame necessarily white people, but for us to be attacking each other as cultures. Is no one having that discussion? Well, I think is what you've seen in terms of this is like something that bubbles under that came over to the top, right?

The model minority sort of framework says that, hey, there's no way that black Americans could be systemically disenfranchised or oppressed in America because there have been other groups that have come over here and they've done so well. And when you talk about the model minority, oftentimes, to Michael's point, the Asian American culture, the AAPI culture goes like specifically a couple of different pockets that would go to the top of the list and they go, look how they're performing this and how they perform in that. And so the genius part of what was done with this particular case is that it, in a lot of people's minds, in my opinion, juxtapose what they think is a bad culture with a good one. Right. And then they ask the Supreme Court to really choose a culture. And I'll just be honest with you. The optics of it is choose between a culture that values education,

that values hard work, that values all of this, and they're being treated unfairly, and juxtapose that against a bunch of shiftless lazy niggas who are trying to get somewhere for free that they didn't earn. And that is the quiet part that was said out loud here When you make somebody like that When you say, hey, this is the thing And the nuance of the argument

That Michael just laid out and all of that stuff So nobody cares Like we could we could talk about it until we're blue in the face About the fact that everything that was done to us It wasn't an accident. It was on purpose. So you'd have to undo it on purpose. I'm about to get mad.

but like nobody cares. So I'll let my... I'm about to get pissed off. Go ahead. Go ahead. So maybe what I'm about to say is going to piss you off more. But

the... You also have to remember this, right? None of that stuff that applies to Asian Americans and immigrants and Hispanic Americans apply to us. Right?

You... you can get the best education as a black person and it does not guarantee you economic freedom. It does not guarantee you economic equality. It doesn't guarantee you a job. None of that applies to us, right? So, you know, what all of those people,

the white ones, the Asians should be glad about, is just that we don't burn everything down because really and truly the truth is that the reason that a lot of black people aren't upset about this. It's not just that they expected it because that shit don't work for us anyway. Going to Harvard ain't going to work for you

if you think that's going to give you, it might get you some respect in the eyes of white folks. But, you know, there are statistics that show, like, the richest, you know, if you're talking about this case specifically, let's talk about this case specifically, right? So if you're a black child in America, The richest black child in a majority black, first of all, 60% of black children go to a school that is majority black. Majority black schools are underfunded at about $2,226 per student less than the poorest majority white school district.

So the poorest white students in America get a better education than the best two-parent household black children, right? that's a fact, right? And so here's the thing, right? It's like they talk about what Van said, well, respecting education and the culture and not. None of that. Why would you respect an education system that ain't never, ever been constructed or equal for us?

What education system? What would you respect? Like, why would you respect somebody who threw crumbs on the floor, why you've got to respect the crumbs, right? None of that shit works for us. You know, education, experience, employment, none of a child from the

wealthiest 5% of black children is just as likely to get incarcerated as they are to graduate from college. None of that shit don't work for us, right? None of it. And so the framing of the narrative that if y'all work a little harder and stop getting through

loopholes, maybe y'all could get somewhere. The truth is, man, like, you know, this decision is not just for Asian Americans, a victory for white people. Like, it's another stop on the neck for black people. You have to remember that every decision, whether it's gerrymandering, like those were people who came to the Supreme Court and said, hey, is segregation right or wrong? Or is affirmative action right or wrong? or in the case of voting rights,

is voting disparities, is that right or wrong? They were white people who specifically went to overturn a policy, Shelby versus Holder. Was Edward Bloom? They're specifically to undo black people's voting rights. Affirmative action. Was there to specifically undo education policies that try to fix the past?

They can consider, again, the past of white people, legacies they can consider donors. All of that is the past, right? That's all affirmative action is using something as a factor to determine whether or not you should be admitted into a school. And they can, like, white people have

10 times the wealth of black people, right? So when you're talking about donors, that's a race-based admission policy, right? When you talk about athletes, 70% of the athletes who gets college scholarships are white. People don't realize they look at baseball and football and football, but they forget about crew and golf and tennis, right? 75% of the people being recruited at Harvard right now are white.

So all of it is constructed against us, right? And so the one thing that was intended to erase that disparity, they went specifically to say, we want that shit too. Let's talk about the response for a second. So I'm interested in the what now of this. President Biden said some words earlier. He said that he was going to instruct the Department of Education to form a committee to try to figure out what they could do,

to make sure that there's the disparity in higher education doesn't grow because, you know, we've seen this before in California, here in California, after race-based admissions were suspended, race being a consideration was suspended, you saw half of the black and Latino students at these schools almost overnight. And that's been going on for a couple of decades now, that there's. the UC system has had problems with diversity. After they took it out, it just happened. And you'll probably see this as well. You've seen the number of schools come out and say that they're going to do what they can do

to make sure that these things, those same trends don't hold true now. What can they do? What can the president and the Department of Education do? What can an individual school do? They can't break federal law. So what can they do? Right. So there's a couple things that I think we can do.

First of all, remember, like, you know, Harvard is a private institution. University of North Carolina is a public school, right? And so the people of North Carolina, especially the black people, right, in the state that has such a large percentage of black people and such a low percentage of students at the universities that it funds, they should. file a lawsuit to say you can't have our money, right? Because it's what it is, I've always advocated that this is theft, right? Like, if your state is 20% black and the public universities are 8% black, then all of those black people's tax dollars are being used to fund the education for white students, right?

So to do it, we know, we've seen the studies. Yeah, you got to undo the legacy policy then. You got to undo the donor. policy then, right? Because those are race-based policies too, right? And so when colleges undo those, then they're going to have to construct the system because what we have to remember, right, is no colleges saying, hey, we only accept the best students, not even Harvard. What they're saying is we're accepting students based on creating an educational environment that is best, most beneficial for the students who attend this college, right? And so if you're going

to have all white students at Harvard, first of all, it's going to be a worst college. Because the Black students and the Hispanic students and those students who were getting it through what they call affirmative action, they were buttressing the reputation of those institutions for those white kids who got in through those ALDC policies, right? Those white kids, those college would be mediocre white rich people if it wasn't for those policies, right? And the other thing that we can do, right, is so we can sue to undo those policies, right? Because they are just as unfair as race-based admission policies if we consider that unfair. The other thing that we can do is go to state legislatures and go to Congress and say, look, a portion of money based on their racial dynamics, right? Because what you're saying is we're taking black people's money and giving it to white people.

So the federal funding that these schools get, if you don't have a representative portion of black people at your school, no pale grants, no financial aid for that school, right? We want to, your community should be able to control the federal dollars that go to the individual. Now you see what they do. They'll figure something out, right? They'll figure something out. And finally, and I know we get tired of hearing voting stuff, right? But again, they constructed this. They played the long game.

They weren't talking about I'm going to get a president who exactly concedes to what the things I want. They had a strategy. I want me a president who's going to put me an anti-abortion candidate on the support. Supreme Court. I want me affirmative action judge. I want be an anti-voting rights judge. And we got to think the same way. We want our stuff back. The stuff that we pay

it for, because they're still in our money, right? We got to take that stuff back. And the only way we can do it is not through being anti-white. Because the one thing that they don't realize is all of this stuff hurts still. White people are going to be going to terrible schools. And black people, you know, the

one good thing that might come out of this is, you know, those students that don't get into Harvard, they're going to be busting the doors down at Morehouse and Spelman and Howard and, and those schools are going to surpass them. Those schools are going to surpass them, right? And it's going to be a bunch of mediocre white kids rowing boats at Harvard and Yale wondering what happened to the reputation of their schools. In talking about the what now and looking at the majority opinion that was put out there,

it's got a lot of people asking questions because Chief Justice Roberts said, you know, talked about, oh, well, you can talk about it in your essay. You can discuss your experience of race in your essay, but you can't necessarily be questioned about that specifically. Then there's the whole military. The military is exempt from this. What do you think about that? What are your thoughts as to why?

Because I've seen some of this discourse on social media as to as to why the military is exempt for this. What would be the basis behind that? And then also Chief Justice Roberts saying, but you can talk about it in your essay. You can speak to your experience of race. So you know the reason why they're saying where they accept the military.

It's right. Black people, people of color, non-white people disproportionately serve in the armed forces. Have always done it since the inception of the armed forces. Right. So that's the main reason, right? Like, we can still let niggas die for its country. but they can't get the benefits that this country affords them, right?

And the thing about the second part of the question, right, is what now and what happens to all of the other stuff where you can put, say it on your essay, like you can, so you can include, what they're saying is you can include a sob story, right? It doesn't hurt that an admissions person knows that you're black, but they can't use it as a corrective measure for all of the stuff that we did. Because like one of the sentences that Clarence Thomas said is interesting to me, right? Because it's crazy that he would write this in an opinion. He said that, and I'm paraphrasing, right, you cannot have a measure that is

based on race and not harm another race. So if you help one race, he says, you got to be harming another race. Well, that is the exact premise of affirmative action. For 200 years, this country helped the white race, right? And so if you're saying that they couldn't help but harm another race if they were helping white people, then you see, you admitted that they were harming black people.

So you have to take a couple. corrective action because the idea of colorblind or race neutrality says that, hey, all of the other stuff from the past, we did it. But from now to the future, we're going to be race neutral,

which means that you're going to let all of these disparities stand because you ain't trying to fix them. Race neutrality can't fix those things, right? You got to take an affirmative action to correct the disparity

from the past, right? And that's the point. Guys, that was Michael Harriet. I'm going to be honest with you. He did piss me off more. I didn't want to be mad. I don't want to be mad. Y'all know.

How can you not be, though? How can you not be mad? You don't support me when I'm mad. Don't make, don't. I support you today. No, we can't fight in front of company. Listen, at Michael Harriet on Twitter. Let me tell you guys something right now.

Like, I remember there was this one week where I had three different friends that were doing shows. This is a true story. I've never told you this. I had three different friends that were doing shows that they had shows coming out. And, like, three different people said, I got to have him. That's real. They were talking about you. Wow.

And three different people were like, oh, yeah, this, okay, so this is my wish list. This is my, and two of them didn't get you. this was my wish list. And he was on there. And I was like, oh, man, that brother is amazing. It's such a big treat to have you on the podcast. Hopefully, hopefully there is an understanding that comes out of kind of the assault on black liberty and advancement that we're seeing at the federal level from the Supreme Court.

You know, I've talked about abolishing the Supreme Court. I know people think that I'm a crazy socialist whack job, but I've lost complete faith in the institution that I don't see how they service anymore. And if you look back at the history of it, they rarely ever did. Michael, thank you for joining this day on higher learning. We will continue to follow you and ask you back for sure, brother. Yeah, thanks for having me, man. I'm so happy to be here.

This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor. liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping, then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Cream. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch

window, gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweet Green's new wraps have got you. Real ingredients? Zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aoli. Crumbled bacon. Corn salsa. 40 grams of protein. Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweetgreen wraps hit different. Order now at order.com. Michael's amazing. Michael's literally one of the most talented guys. I read them all the time. All Yeah, it's, I'm so happy that, like, that he's animated about it. I'm glad that people are mad. Aren't you glad that people are upset about this?

Am I not mad enough for you? As I said, you've been getting mad. Yes, yes, I'm glad he's mad about it. I'm glad we got him on this podcast and talk about it. And I would imagine that a lot of people are mad about this today. Even, you know, it's like we all knew it was coming. We knew it was coming this week. We knew it was coming today.

And still, just to hear, you know what, you know what got me worked up is we knew it was coming today. But then when I start reading what the majority opinion is, when I start reading the dissenting opinions, it works me up at just the reasoning behind you implementing this or taking back, I should say, precedent and putting this in our society. That's what gets me worked up. Then I started reading the social media discourse on it, and I'm fired up again. So, yeah, Van, I'm mad. So, of course, just to give you guys the nutrition, Chief Justice Roberts, in his opinion, and the entire challenge here is based upon the 14th Amendment, which is in the equal protection clause that it's in the 14th Amendment.

It's argued that race-based admission. violates that. It violates that. It violates the 14th Amendment. Of course, like Rachel said, they exempted the military from this situation. It's interesting. A lot of this stuff is interesting,

and I think that's another thing when people talk about the legacy situation. The legacy situation is something that colleges do, and it's something that colleges have, but it's harder to challenge. because admitting someone based upon legacy is not expressly what people would say forbid in any statute.

So I think that the part of this that was the most that was the most sort of insidious was the interpretation here that in some way affirmative action violates the Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment. And if that was the case, and it was so important in college admissions,

then I guess you'd ask why is it important in military academies citing the distinct interests that they present. Now, here's a couple of the problems that I have with it. And these are problems that I have, not just with this decision, but with America. This is kind of an example of the lies that we tell ourselves. the lies that we tell ourselves as Americans, right? The meritocracy lie is a lie that we tell ourselves. If Harvard wanted to admit,

if Harvard wanted their entire class next year, their entire class next year to have perfect SAT scores they could do it. If they wanted everyone, I remember about the first person that actually made this point to me, was Gibral years and years ago. He went to Stanford, and he was talking about his, my brother had one of the most

one of the highest LSAT scores of that year. It was like legendary at Morehouse and stuff, right? And he was like, you know, that matters. But he was like, if they wanted to admit, because he went to stamp, he's like, if they wanted everybody to have that, there are enough applicants and enough people

that get that for them to have that. He was like, that's part of the reason why I was admitted, but it's probably not the whole story. The whole story probably comes from what he was able to do when he was at undergrad, the fact that he had a job, and he worked super hard at this legal place,

and then he went to New York, and he did all. He's like, those are probably the reasons why I beat out some of the other people that had similar scores, even the black people, right? So that changed the way I looked at all of this, even back then, that a part of, admitting to someone to your school is understanding

the types of leaders and thinkers and Americans that you want to create. The types of leaders and thinkers and Americans that you want to create. That's part of the reason why some of these places that make people to these schools, right? Because they want in situations like this to be able to have a diverse

a diverse student body because you know they want that to reflect that in their alumni and I give an example of that like Clarence Thomas right

Clarence Thomas is the perfect American example of why a school would want affirmative action okay and to be honest with you why the white establishment

Schmidt with one affirmative action. It's interesting that he's such an opponent of it. I hope everybody's listening to Slow Burn, a Slate podcast, Joel Anderson, and the people over there doing great, great, amazing work. But when you think about it, if Clarence Thomas had never gone to Yale, and when you know his story,

you know how he ended up there, if Clarence Thomas would have never gone to Yale, then white America wouldn't have their most bloated and powerful white man's nitty. If the ivies never had, they might. But there's only, they've only been, they've only ever been two black guys to sit up there. They might. But it's not easy to make those Supreme Court justices. It's only been ever, only ever been two black guys.

guys to sit up there. The story of Karras Thomas is interesting because you know he goes to Holy Cross difference he goes and goes to Yale and when he's at Yale the affirmative action thing is such

he starts off and he's Clarence Thomas when he was at school he planned a walkout with the black student unit. When he was at Holy Cross he was going to take all of the black students and they were going to leave based upon the way they were treated there, right? Yeah.

His proximity to white people at Yale is actually the thing that inspired him to look at the world in a different way. He met John Bolton when he was at Yale. And he rubbed elbows with people. And those people took Clarence Thomas from someone who looked at Black America and the experiences of Black Americans

in a very specific way. And it turned them into someone who stood directly in the way of anything that tried to undo the whores of the history of white supremacy. And he learned that at those organizations and they've been able to use,

those schools, shall say, they've been able to use that very effectively. You know, he started his entire deal with the Reagan administration in like 1980, 1981, by 1991, this motherfucker was on the Supreme Court. And all of those things are examples of kind of, Like, no one plots out your course when you go to one of these schools.

Like, you don't, we're not saying it, no one is, what we're essentially talking about here is cutting off the opportunity for black people to be something on a specific level. It's difficult. There are amazing people that come from all different types of schools, all different types of schools, all different types of schools. Howard is one of them. Howard is a fantastic one. There's a great guide. It does a podcast that came from Southern University. Like, there's a bunch of different people that come from all types of different schools.

But when you look at the advantage and the privilege that is specific to some of these institutions that we're talking about, this was a very, very, very, very efficient and direct assault on one part of ascension. And it's interesting that Bloom and Thomas and students for fair, mission and parts of the Asian American community who don't see America in the same historical lens that we see it in. You guys, there's no way to get around that. There's no way to get around the fact that you're talking to people who think that they're missing out on something because of us and they don't understand what we've missed.

Like they don't understand. They have no framework for it. So it's really a stupid fucking conversation when you think about it. When you think about what it means to be black and what it's meant to be black, and when you compare that to whether or not you should get a chance to, like, go to college, when you think about what's really old and what we really should be doing, it's really a stupid conversation to have. So, you know, what are you going to say?

What you got? No, I don't want to interrupt you once you finish your thought. No, I'm done. I'm done. I don't, this is, this is, this is the,

this is the problem with me. The issue with me is that I get to a point and I have a problem crystallizing the, the rage that I feel. I just get tired of being called a nigger. And this was like a big huge, like in neon lights, a big nigger.

Yeah. It's the way that it is wrapped up and presented to you, which is why most people can't see that's exactly what they're calling you, me, everyone who looks like us. You talk about, I can't remember how you phrased it, but the thing, I guess the thing that was what it boils down to is they don't know how we're different and they don't care to know how we're different and the historical and then like I guess the history that comes. comes with that, right? They don't know how Jim Crow created the education gap. And they don't know that because of the way the generational wealth gap in the neighborhoods. And then because of the neighborhoods we live in, it determines the school funding that we receive. And then it determines the type of education that we receive. They don't talk about the fact that from admissions test to the schooling that we received, to legacy, to donors, and all of that, how that's against us as

black people. They don't talk about that. They don't care to know about that, right? Everyone's out for themselves, which is why it was so interesting to have the conversation of how this is really pitting Asian Americans against black Americans. They don't care about that stuff and that stuff. And it all feeds into this fantasy, right? This fantasy that we don't need affirmative action, right? There needs to be no affirmative action taken. It's this fantasy that we're colorblind. It's this fantasy that, or the words from you brought up, Clarence Thomas, that he says the Constitution isn't colorblind, but yet it's missing that the people who have to

interpret the Constitution are not colorblind, right? The people who are reading these admission packages and looking to see who comes into their schools, they're not colorblind. And that's this whole fantasy that they're trying to tell you, oh, everything is okay. And, you know, we want everything to be race neutral. It's this fantasy that Asian Americans and white people are the victims in all of this. And they're not. And that's what this opinion is feeding us.

And that's what makes me so upset. You have centuries and centuries of us being enslaved in this country. you have over a century of Jim Crow since Jim Crow laws were implemented and they still exist to the stay. Yet affirmative action when it was first implemented almost 60 years or affirmative action was almost implemented 60 years ago, changed again in 1978, so 45 years ago. And for some reason that that's shorter time, you think that everything has been cured and we're all okay. when we're talking about centuries of institutionalized racism, that's the kind of stuff that makes me upset. And nobody wants to look at it that way,

except for black people, the ones who are affected by it. And I'm sick of the fantasy being told, and I'm sick of people believing it. So Sandra Day O'Connor, she said back in the 80s that when discussing affirmative action of holding, that there might be a time when it was no longer needed. And I agree. She said 25.

years. She's 25 years. In 25 years, it might not be needed. And we beat that. And I agree. I agree that at some point, there could be a time where we didn't have to consider these things. I agree that's possible. What I don't see is being anywhere close to that. If I had children, I wouldn't send them to Harvard, Yale, and Princeton anyway. I think it's important that black people go to those schools, but I wouldn't think that it's important. That it's important. my children go to those schools. Whatever. But I think that the narrative here, there are all kinds of legalities that go on here. What's legal to be challenged? It's not legal to be challenged.

How this happened. The political activism that had to go into making this happen. How Donald Trump and his election influenced this of Donald Trump has touted Black unemployment

he's touted oh black people had it great you hear people regurgitate that it's directly a result of the court

that he helped to create the court that he did help to create the court that he did create so all of these things have consequences we've discussed those

the but like you know the bare bones of this kind of exists in the actual reality of black people today. And are we living in a society right now

where things are equitable enough, progressive enough, or sanitized enough to where the history of this country and the traditional patterns of this country no longer need to be considered? And they're just metrics that you can use. Have we shranked?

the gap between white people in terms of wealth. Now, Michael brilliantly plotted out some of the educational disparities. Do those exist? Yes. So, you know, I think the real affirmative action here would be in actually taking a real look at those disparities and how you might come to some different outcomes

or fix them. But we're not allowed to do that. And we're not allowed to do that because having a conversation about how we got here is being made illegal in states all over this country. They are literally stopping us from discussing the issue and then acting like it doesn't exist. And everybody's got to play a part in this. Everybody's got to play a part in this. Everybody's got to play a part in what happens next. And what I would say to the president and to anyone else is I want to.

I want to see if this is where we are, we're all, we're merit-based, and this is the whole deal, I want to see class be treated just like race. And that's something that America has never been able to do. America has used race to denote class, but they've never treated class like race. So they've never said that, hey,

the privilege that you were born with shouldn't denote where you go. They just say your skin color should. forget about the fact that your skin color is a direct disadvantage in almost every way and privilege is an advantage in every way. Like understand when people, when we talk about wealth transfer,

we talk about like parents leaving like fucking houses and cars, money to children and all of something. We talk about that. Paying for your kids college. That's a wealth transfer. That's something that a lot of people can't do. If you have money that's been in your family and then you take your wealth and pay for your kids' school, that is a wealth transfer.

That is an inviatorial wealth transfer. That's an in vitro wealth transfer. In vivo, excuse. That's an invivore wealth transfer. You are contributing to the future of your children. Right. And so what I'm saying is we're talking about the legacy thing now and obviously that's low-hanger. but the reality is I would like to see legislation that eliminates that.

All of the numbers are out there. You guys can hear about it all. I would like to see people really, really on fire. And that includes President Biden, Vice President Harris and everyone. If we're to a point right now, well, we can't consider race in creating an economic America, then we need to have a serious class war, a real one, to where there is an assault on the toxic, the toxicly affluent. And there's no other way around it because, like, some of this stuff is not even that I,

it's not even that I've ever had a thought on a Tuesday morning about affirmative action at Harvard or Yale or Princeton or North Carolina or any place. I've never had a thought about that. I've never had. But what I have thought about is like what we live in and how we live in. And the most insulting and infuriating part of this is acting like in some way, we're the ones who are living large. It's just interesting.

I'll tell you guys something, man. A lot of people, a lot of people say all the time, you know, Van hates white people, Van has a problem, they resents white people, and they say that. And I don't.

I don't hate white people. But I'll tell you one thing now. It's a full-time job, not hate me. It is. It's a full-time job. job. I don't, but it's hard. And I don't give a fuck where this goes or who has a problem with it. It's hard. It's hard for me. Yeah, I'm not going to make a, I get what you're saying. I'm not going to make a general statement like that, but it's hard. I understand why you're saying

it's hard because of the people who are making it their mission to protect themselves at the expense of us and they're doing it in the legislature. They're doing it legally. And that's where that hate comes from. And I understand that. I want to circle back to something what you said about class. What do you mean class? Like, class should be the focus. Like, I feel like I didn't fully get what your point was in that. What I'm, what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is like, okay, so there has to be, in my opinion, when I talk about class,

I mean, race to me is, I tell you the way I look at this, like, the black people... Because are you saying they should use class? That's more on the question. I guess. But directly and indirectly. So black people have been America's permanent underclass, servant class, and entertainment class forever, right? Like, forever.

Black people have been that. And I think that sometimes people think in very academic terms about that, meaning capitalism is the driving force behind black people being the underclass, right? Because it comes from slavery, which was a capitalist thing. And it was people would say it was an emotional thing. There's no hard feelings, nigger, you're just a slave. Okay, and I've heard that before. I remember hearing that at TMZ.

I remember somebody at TMZ saying, somebody that worked at TMZ comparing the Holocaust and slavery and saying that the Holocaust was worse because they were killing Jews just to kill them, whereas slavery was horrible, but there was an economic incentive in it, which in some way made it less personal. Okay.

And, um, and less directly evil. Okay. And, you know, what did you do? You do your best. Like I said, I said, I don't hate, but I said it's a full-time job. I said, it's hard. And I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, really don't.

I don't. But it's hard. It's hard hearing something like that and then going, who the fuck am I working with? You know what I mean? And it's sad in front of a room full of people. It's hard. you know. And that's why you got to have faith and spirituality and Jesus and you guys, you

got to take everybody in what they are. But, you know, sometimes America makes it harder. I'm not above saying that. But when I come back to that, I think about the lack of context that that actually has inside of it. Because one thing begets the other. So what happens is you have a group of people that you've made. permanent underclass because they financially benefit you.

They benefit your economy. After a while, you look at those people as less than, at first, I say, you look at those people as less than maybe to explain why you have to subjectate them. But after a couple of generations, it's not even that much of a trick. You just think they're subhuman. after a couple of generations, after one generation, two generations, you're not convincing yourself that a mother screams don't matter anymore so that she can go out there and work in your field.

You're not convincing yourself for that. You taught your kids that. And you taught your kids that. Then they taught their kids that. And then they taught their kids that. And then even after these same people are free, you just don't want a nigger to have anything. Sure, you don't want to compete with any niggas.

So there is definitely a part of Jim Crow and all of these things that were institutional control and the permanent establishment of a white aristocracy. That's absolutely true. But there's also an emotional and a deep religion of hatred that went along with it. You do not believe that these people are equal to you. You think it's real. And that becomes the reason why you don't want them living next to you. Because you think having them around devalues you.

because they're not really people. And that's the same reason why you don't want to mention schools. And that's the same reason why when they then create their own schools, you make sure those schools are poor. Right? So we get to a point after this where, all right, now we can't talk about race. That's gone.

Class is still there. Class is still there. Class is there. So we can't talk about race. We can't talk about race in fucking Florida. We can't talk about race in Tennessee. We can't talk about race Louisiana. I can't talk about race in Texas.

Can't talk about anything in Texas. Only thing you talk about Texas is fucking AR-15. Can't talk about any of that stuff, right? But class is right there. And it's sitting in front of our face with this issue here. With this issue here, you have a bunch of people that's saying, you know what, there's nothing unfair about being able to go to a school with C-plus grades. And that's not an exaggeration.

You went to Trote Rosemary. You went to Horace Man. And your grades are just okay and you still go because somebody, and your family went there before you, or they donated a bunch of money to, that's not unfair. We don't care about that. But the fact that you are trying to change

with your admission to that school, hundreds of years of intentional, deliberate, and real oppression, that doesn't matter. So, if we can't talk about race, you got to talk about rich. And we have to take the rich people of this country down the pay because they're wild enough.

And the way to do that is to force the people who are elected. And we might have to get kooky to force the people that are elected to prioritize the everyday person and their absolute opportunity in this country. And it's grassroots and it's got to happen. all of this stuff is in the same globule to me, the corporatization of this country, all of that stuff. Like, we're just stepping over things now. And now the playing in your face,

as I get to be an older man, it's like harder. So when I say class, and I'm obviously failing at being concise here, but when I say class, I mean, all right, so we're talking about disparities. Let's talk about it. And let's really attack it. And if we can't attack the disparities,

we have to find something else to attack because the ball is rolling right over us. Sure. Now I need you to go on a whole 15 minute, right? I'm not talking I'm not talking 10 minutes.

I'm serious. I'm serious. Because, man, because, you know, like, there, it, legally, what recourse, like, legally, what does this mean? Legally, what does this mean? does it mean? I mean, it basically means, it doesn't mean anything other than exactly what the Supreme

Court put out there. Affirmative action, race is no longer considered. I mean, I have no answer for it legally. I mean, I asked Michael, I said, well, do you think that people will challenge based on other things? That might be a thing. Maybe it will be a classic. Maybe it will be standardized testing. Maybe I have no idea. But legally, I don't know. I think. the best thing, and I don't know if this will impact different classes, but I do think one of the best things is to take away federal funding. Because that's, I mean, the only reason that is applied to Harvard is because they received federal funding. That's the only reason they had, they got, they were able to rule the way that they were in the Harvard case. Harvard receives federal

funding for what? I don't know in what way, but they received some federal funding. And that's how, that's how they were able to, because think about it. That's why these cases are. separate, right? Because one is dealing with the public school and one is dealing with the private school. And the reason that they were able to, or their reasoning is that Harvard receives certain money. So they were able to rule on it under the Civil Rights Act. Wow. That's why Michael said take away federal funding. I mean, you can obviously do it statewide, but it's like, and I don't know how Biden could do this or if this is even under his, you know, the executive branch, but he's right.

If you don't do this, we'll take away from it. Now, I don't know if you can do that. Even with that, even with that, I just pulled it up. 40.9 billion endowment and Harvard gets $22 million

in federal work study funding. Now, let's just look at that. Let's look at that real quick. Because we got to move off. And who does that benefit? It benefits whoever's in the fucking work study, but let's think about why

an institution like Harvard would get something like that. Do you know why? Because it's educational regulatory capture. Because schools like that produce the people who run the fucking country. And then the people who run the fucking country, then give money to schools like that that don't fucking need it. You don't think that if I was the president or the secretary of treasury or something like that, that I would write a $50 million Southern University grant.

Of course I would. Of course I would. Absolutely I would. It's the better funded stuff, the better prepared stuff, the better. I don't know, man. I don't even feel, I don't even give you fuck by it. I just feel insulted. I don't know everybody, I just, you know, I'm insulted.

I'm insulted by it. Well, we'll see what happens now. Everybody's saying what they're going to do. Everyone's saying what we have to do now, what we're going to do. I think this is just the beginning. What are they saying they're going to do? I mean, you know, the president said he's going to study it. Various colleges have come out and, you know, recommitted themselves to what they think is in their mission statement, which is having diverse.

Come on. And I'm just saying, that's what they say. But it makes me upset to even hear you talking about that. Because it's like what I listen to the president talking. And what I don't want to hear the president say is that, you know, he's meeting. You knew this was coming, right? So I almost feel like you should have already been ready. If there was, if there was something that you felt like you could do that was within your powers,

then you would have been ready to pull that out the moment this decision was made. You knew it was coming. We all did. They didn't say anything that was different in this, in the majority opinion than we thought they were going to say. And I don't want to hear schools come out and say we're going to abide by what our mission statement says. because there are nine schools that don't, or I'm sorry, nine states that don't have affirmative action prior to this ruling in their public school system or state school system. And majority of those have reported that diversity has been impacted. They're not doing anything.

It doesn't matter what their mission statement says. This is what it is. And then I thought to myself, too, I said, well, maybe if for somehow, if somehow, if, the majority of the court becomes liberal again, they'll be able to change it. And then I thought, no, are we just going keep going back and forth with this? Fuck the court.

Are we just going to keep going back and forth with, okay, well, when it's a majority liberal, then we'll change all the laws back to rule liberal. And when it's supposed to be a court that's bipartisan, we know it's not. Do you know what the fucking problem is? The problem is of a group of unelected geysers having 100 times the power of the people

that we actually elected. There needs to be a real conversation about power and king making in this country and the Supreme Court if in fact, here's a deal, Supreme Court struck this down with just their interpretation and the Constitution and one decision, right? if we wanted to actually attack the legacy situation

or any of these other disparities, it would be almost impossible because you'd have to actually amend the Constitution. You'd have to change statutes because there's nothing to sue on. There's nothing to sue on. There's nothing that says they can't do it. There's nothing to sue on.

So that will never happen. Somebody should start it. That will never happen. Okay? That's not going to, they can't fucking. do anything together in terms of a minute.

That will never happen. So that means that you have essentially a situation where a group of people who I never voted for fucking once get to decide where niggas go to college. And as we do this, as they get to decide where niggas go to college, they get to decide if ladies have babies or not, they get to decide

all of these things. Like, we have to have some conversations. and we have to have some real mobilization of that is based in the reality of the situation that we're in. The reality situation right now is we're in a politically activist court, a rogue court that is not indicative in any way of the mores and values of regular, of most Americans. and we have half of the country politically, maybe not half, but a large portion of them, who just refuse to see America for what it is. And the only way to change is to find a way to hurt rich people.

If you consider me rich, I'll hurt myself if it means hurting them. So I'm saying, man, okay, cool, let's move on. You know what? Let's move on. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, guselcomab, taken by injection,

is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible.

Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business, Fast, Reliable Internet. everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. We're going to have a new segment.

And it's positive news of the week. Okay, because everything else is fucked that we could talk about. All right. Everything else is fucked. We stayed on that. I wasn't smart at all. I'm sorry, guys, I lost it. It's cool.

Everything else is fucked. But positive news of the week is this. Over at No Jumping, this is a positive piece of news. We take a huge left turn. But we got to do it. We got to do it. Over at No Jump or something. positive happened.

Congratulations to Adam 22 and Linda the plug of No Jumper. Because Linda the plug did her first porn scene with another man Adam and Lena

do porn scenes sometimes Adam is of course the leader over there of No Jumper. He's the guy that's in charge. They do porn scenes together. They have the No Plug podcast. They do stuff. And for a long time

they would do threesome. Adam would have sex with some of the hottest ladies in the adult industry. Lena would be right there. Then Linda would do girl girl stuff. I watched the interview where Lena was talking to Adam and she said that she would want to and she thinks it would be really hot if she got to sleep with other gods. And it finally happened. Adam talked about it and fucking confused Crip Mac. but I think this is an amazing step forward for equality.

I think it's a very important development in their relationship. It shows trust. Oh, my God. Lina looks very happy. The nigger, I guess, you know, he came up from behind her in the situation and that motherfucker looked like he played, like he was a jack lineback.

You know what I'm saying? Okay. So I just want everybody who's judging this to know that in the porn world, the couples frequently do scenes with other people. And I never thought that it was fair that Adam could sleep with Lena's friends. Oh, wow. Is that what they were doing? They were sleeping.

Lina would have friends, Riley Reed, the rest of the Adam would sleep with Lina's friends. They would all have a three-s-s-sum- Sorry, I'm not up to date. I barely know who these people are. I know the only with Adam. So sorry. With the niggas from black.com. Now let me ask you this.

There's been some talk about this. Adam is white. Lena's Armenian. The guy is black. Donnie, jump on real quick. No, Donnie, don't do it. Donnie, I beg with you. Donnie, jump on.

Donnie, jump on real quick. Yeah. He doesn't even want to show us bad. Could you imagine any scenario where it was if you were in the porn world do you think you'd have a problem with your wife

doing things with men? I don't. Don't. No, I feel like I would want it to be equal. I get it not being fair. Like, I wouldn't, I can't see myself. Don't know. The answer was you wouldn't do it.

No, I'm saying, Donnie. You wouldn't do it. I would, and this is me, like, stepping outside of myself. And if I was able to sleep with, these other... Saying sleep with is, I feel like, a weird choice of words, too, because nobody's sleeping.

But if I were to have sex with these other ladies and she wasn't able to... Or she was just having sex with ladies but not able to have sex with men. I feel like that wouldn't be fair. It's not fair, right? No. That's unequal.

That's not what we're about. We're about equality. Exactly. Adam was a little... I told him we would be talking about this. Adam was a little trepidacious about letting people know the whole nine and all of that stuff.

So, you know, this is a quality. We're probably the only people talking about it. Nah, that's not true. But, I mean, really, I'm just doing it now because I'm like, can I have a real moment with the audience real quick? Fuck the no jump of shit. Let me have a real moment

with the audience real quick. Like, seriously. And, you know, we can leave after this, but I want to tell people this. Like, I'm unwell.

Okay? Like, I am. I admit. Like, I'm unwell. You know, I used to, as a child, I used to watch,

everybody else would be watching fucking The Terminator, Terminator going through a fucking police station killing people. And, like, everybody's like, oh, my God. The Arnold's Wednesday, you're such a badass motherfucker.

And I would be thinking, what happens when you die? That's what I would be thinking. I would be thinking, like, what happens when you die? I don't think that's why. Like, he just sent 15 niggas to the hereafter. Like, where are they? Where are they right now? I will go talk to my mom.

I'd be like, I just watch this movie. All these people got killed. Like, where are they at now? And my mother's like, Jesus, you believe in Jesus? They're with Jesus. So I'm like, that's like, how do we know? We don't know anything about. about them.

Like, they might not be with Jesus. They might have gotten sent to hell. And I just wonder, like, what the, I would legislate the stakes of the Terminator movie. Like, I get, Rachel, I get graphs, I get, like, locked on to the thing that this is, like, the one life that you get. You ever think about that?

All the time. Actually, all the time. But what makes you say that right now? Because you get one life. Because you get one life and you got to spend it getting your ass kicked by people just because of who you are. You get one life and you got to pretend like shit isn't the way that it is. You literally, you get one spin on this globe, like, you get one spin on this globe one time to like smell flowers and to like swim and do all in that. And somebody might blow your head off just because.

somebody might fuck over you for years and years and years and years and then tell you that there's not even anything that you can do to make it right. And everybody else just goes to brunch and it's not like I do anything. It's not like I'm out there

like actually, it's just like it just girts me up. You know, I just get girded. I girt. I get girded. I just get girded up. I just get tired of being played with, man. Like, that's why I do so.

many things where I can control stuff. While I play Madden, where unless the game glitches, I can either win or lose, where I like basketball, where I like fucking comic books, where I like stuff, where I can fucking, where it's either not real or I can fucking control it.

Of course. That's the escapism. Of course. You do. I think about that all the time. Because when I start thinking about this stuff, I get mad at everybody. And then I say stuff. You know, whatever, man. Like that you hate, that you hate white people? I never said that.

That's not what I said. I never said that. I said, I don't. And I really don't. You work at it every day. I know. You work at it every day. No, I'm saying I don't.

And I said, I really, I really don't. I don't. In a real way, I don't. Don't hate any of it. But what I'm saying is, just walking around this motherfucker being from Louisiana and having people say stuff like, oh, it's made sure.

Why can I? say the end work. And then all it's different. It's just different. Shut the fuck up. I'm going to jump the gun because I'm going to try to not change mine.

Try to take a turn to make you think about something else. That's good news. No, that's not what we're going to do. What I'm going to do is I'm going to jump the gun and introduce a segment that you wanted to introduce next week. What is it called? What could go on? Okay.

Okay. I'm trying to take your mind off things for a second. What could go wrong, right? I'm going to tell you some news that came out. And you tell me, what could go wrong? What could go wrong with this? Okay, let's do it. Dr. Conrad Murray.

You remember him? Nick I killed Michael Jackson. Mm-hmm. So he is opening up a medical institute 12 years after he was convicted for involuntary manslaughter. He's opening it up in Trinidad and Tobago. What do you think he could go wrong with that? Okay. So I would say it's going wrong with that.

Say Trinidad and Tobago is where he's opening it up? Yeah, yeah, Trinidad and Tobago. So he could open that up and give poor medical care to people that causes people to black people to be hurt. And no one would care. Okay, wait, I feel like I made you upset again. he then could have somebody that was white come down there and get medical care.

They could be American doing it for the cheap and then they would die. He would be extradited back to the United States when he'd be tried for the death of an American. And then after that, that could cause an entire conversation in this country about whether or not black men should be allowed to be doctors. Oh my gosh.

Then it started at the state level with Edward Bloom and his people trying to revoke the right of black niggas to be doctors. And in 20 years, it could be made illegal for a black man to be a doctor.

Which then leads to the McConnell DeSantis Act of 255 that starts an exploratory committee to examine whether or not black people should be given mandatory work assignments around the country to cut down on crime. So what could the worst that could happen at any time, the answer to this question is they could bring back slavery. that's what it always comes back we should we should always end the segment with that

the goal is to bring it right back to where it started in this country what's the worst that it could happen they could bring back something you guys I'm unwell Rachel

you know we didn't do pleasantries you know we didn't do pleasure I know exactly why. First off, you already had a really tough start to this podcast. To add on to everything that is happening currently in this country, you couldn't even get to where you were going. How long?

How many hours were you at an airport today? I want to shout out to Kai. I'm in Northern California right now. I want to shout out Kai from the ringer, producer Kai. I want to shout him out because I was trying to get to San Francisco. and I couldn't because the flight was delayed over and over and over again. So, I mean, like really delayed more than anything. Like delayed from like nine all the way to like fucking four.

And we had to do the podcast, which were already delayed. So thank you to Rachel and Ashley and Chloe and Donnie. And we then, I had to figure out how to record. So Kai, one of the best young producers at the Ringer, lives near the airport. So I came over to his house. I'll have to drive from where I'm at to get to my event. So shout out to Kai.

Thank you very much. But it's been a long day of me just reading about race-based shit all day. So I'm a little fraud. Fuck everything. In the legacies. Go to HBCUs. I don't know. I don't know.

They fuck over them too. Ray, say something to cheer me up, Rach. Like, come on. Let's cheer each other up. Let's be cheering. to distract you and you brought it back to slavery. Nigel, by bringing up Conrad Murray? Hold on for a second.

This is hilarious. So, so, so, so. I said distract, not cheer you up. I said distract. Conrad Murray. The nigga who killed Michael Jackson. I saw something that said they're going to put Michael Jackson on trial. Yeah.

Donnie, did you see that? Well, that choreographer won't stop. Yeah. I don't know if they're putting him. Wow. He's suing him. He won't stop. Way, Christ.

That's a tough. Way ropes in his name. That's true. Sorry. He's continuing to sue him. He won't stop. Take it how you want it. So you think he should stop?

I'm just saying he's still going. What if Michael Jackson fucked him in the ass though? So, well, I mean, definitely shouldn't stop it. No. He shouldn't, but I thought echo was found innocent. From a legal standpoint, can you try somebody who's dead? What's the? What is actually that he's doing?

It's Wade. I don't know. Let's look it up. Because I know this is another, we're just fucking, it's not even in the podcast. We're just vibing now. Let's see. Wade Robson. Wade Robson. Australian dancer.

His corporations are facing trial. Corporations. So let's look at it. Michael Jackson's accusers can finally get their day in court because they say the company was complicit. So this is a civil suit. A three judge panel of the California court. of appeal breathed new life into the child molestation claims bar by leaving never land subjects weighing robson and james safe chuck

as michael jackson's the plaintiffs allege that alleged that mjj productions ink staff were complicit and aided jackson in grooming sexual abuse and cover-ups so the men have a legal case that can be trialled with allegations that both did they were molested by jackson after a pop star befriended them when they were children um so i'm unclear of how this goes is this a civil? This is what I have to be civil. It's a civil suit. It's a civil suit. What's your thoughts on this? Hold on. Emergency broadcast systems going on. Can you hear me? Hold on. Yeah. My headset, I switched to my headphones.

Because there was an alert. Hold on. I got to get it back. Can you hear me? Hello? Mm-hmm. Okay. I'm not giving my thoughts on this. Why? First off, I feel so sorry for anybody who's listening to this podcast because once Michael Harriet left us. Things just took a turn. The podcast is fucking over. No, I'm

not going to get it to it. I have no, I'm not going to get it. We've been promising them for years at this point that we were going to have a deep time on Michael Jackson. What I'm not going to do is prematurely talk about it on an article that I haven't even read. I've literally just read the headline. We're not that type of podcast. Sorry, I'm not.

And you already tried to turn what I said when I said he's still going. Seriously. Don't you feel like with the Michael Jackson situation that people have, you know what I'm trying to do? Rachel, come. It's like, we're united on this.

Think about the things that we're not united on. But we're united on the fact that, like, we're two scumbats that find it very hard to take the allegations against Michael Jackson as serious as we should. We're hypocrites. This podcast could be called hire hypocrites. hypocrites.

We are. We are. Like we're regular, you know what? Because we're people. You know? Like Rachel, let's get into some truth. Let's take five minutes of truth. Donnie, my iPod's keep popping in and off.

I have no idea why. So I don't know how this is messing with the sound. Okay. Look, somebody in the podcast. It's fine. Yeah. It's terrible. Sorry.

That pot. Deep plus. Even my podcast, my AirPods, my AirPods, don't want to have this conversation. It's true. All right, look. We're not. Take the in gaps off, but do not stop learning.

You guys, we have to pry, pry justice and equality out of the hands of the people that are squeezing it out of us. I think pry is too nice of a word. We're at war. What do you think? What do you think? We're at war.

We're at war. It's going to be a win on this podcast in the coming weeks. a lot of things been going on. It's tough. You need a nap. I do. Taking the caps off, but do not stop learning

on Van Lathen Jr. Wait, before you go, I'm sorry to cut you off, Rachel. We do have the Summit of the Sexes announcement. We could end on that notes. I was going to record that after the recording, but let's just put it in the show. Let's do it.

Actually, leave that in that. Donnie just said that. Summit of the Sexes. Rachel, you want to announce something to somebody? Well, I guess we will end on a high note, guys, we've been promising that this is coming and thought warriors

we are actually going to have a live recording, a live show in L.A. And we're not going to do it by ourselves. If you want to join the crowd, you can buy your tickets for our first ever summit of the sexes. We have been teasing this.

It's going to be a conversation discussing how men and women approach similar topics. Van is bringing two of his friends. I'm bringing of two of mine, it's going to go down. It's happening Monday, July 17th, at Reparations Club in Los Angeles. The space is extremely limited, you guys. So listen up. This is how you can be a part of it. You grab your ticket at rep.combs slash higher learning. Again, that's rep.combe forward slash higher learning. We're going to do some meeting and greeting. We're going to record the show and we're going to take your

questions live. This is unscripted. I have no idea. how this is going to go down, I just know it's going to be good, especially because we've been talking about it for a minute. Again, Higher Learnings. Summit of the Sexus Live podcast recording will be at Reparations Club in L.A. on Monday, July 17th

at 7 p.m. You guys can get your tickets at rep. dot club slash higher learning. And we hope to see you guys there. Can't wait to see you. I hope you guys come to the reparations club. Bye, everybody.