Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - More Trump Misses, Drake’s New Defender, and Understanding the Airstrikes With Akbar Shahid Ahmed

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay give a quick recap on a few headlines that have captured their attention (08:24), before they are joined by Akbar Shahid Ahmed to talk about the recent airstrikes on Rafah and give more insight on America’s involvement in the Israel/Gaza conflict (19:33). Then, they discuss Drake’s latest defender (53:25) and ask an important question to our Thought Warriors: Can a man tell another man that he looks good? (1:04:42) Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Akbar Shahid Ahmed Producer: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to higher learning. I'm Van Lengthen Jr. Start over. No. Why are you doing this? It's new. I'm Rachel Lynn, Lindsay. It's so boring.

Welcome to higher learning. I'm Van Latelyt & Jr. Look, we have to grow up, man. You know? It's a big deal. Rachel, what are you doing? I want you to clip that, Ashley, because I just want to play that when Van,

is not showing how grown up he is. Just, we'll just put that in there. We got to grow up. But go ahead. I have to, we, what am I doing? What do you mean?

I have to grow up. We have to grow up. Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. It's, it's,

it's, it's, it's too familiar. Okay. You know? Guys, it'll come back. We've already changed the intro song.

It took away the yo, yo, yo. I mean, you're really turning people off from this podcast, man, from the start. How? How am I doing it? You're taking away

being, there's nothing wrong with being familiar. It's why we've created a community of thought warriors. This is what they've come to know and love. Nah, man. I don't know if we have a community like that. Let me ask you a question.

What is wrong with you today? Go ahead, ask the question. Yo, I'm, I'm, what are your thoughts on the fountain blue Miami? It's not what it used to be. I haven't been in a while I used to live out there

it used to be the place to go now not so much not so much I mean it's still got the club lives still there actually I'm assuming that was you there were you there no I don't know I was on there look um I

you know here at the I would like to say shout out to everyone from P668 I'm down here attending the Conference of States okay. I'm not going to talk a lot about it, but I'm seeing how people make change.

And I'm meeting some spectacular people. I think for everyone out there who has opinions on government and on how government should move and what government should do, if you have the opportunity, you should actually try to rub shoulders with the people who are raising money,

funding candidates, the candidates themselves and see the work and the effort that people put in to get one ballot initiative across the finish line, to get one candidate across the finish line, to dedicate their whole lives to this. And then we come on here and have opinions that undermine their work. But to see exactly what people are sacrificing and what they are doing to actually make political change in the country. I am happy to be down here. Not getting paid to be down here

or to come down here and see how the sausage was made here at the Fountain Blue, which is a gigantic hotel. Gigantic hotel. I can't find conference of states anywhere. Well, maybe you shouldn't. I'm only saying that because you were like, I'm not going to say much about it.

So I was like, oh, let me Google, let me see what it's about. So it feels like a secret society It's not a secret society. It's people that are making change. I'm wearing my hat everywhere. Everyone loves the goddamn hat. Yeah, you being number one. You got no when to hold them.

No when to fold them. Hey, I saw those two cowboys from Yellowstone got married, your friend. Oh, Hassy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They got married. They got married. She got married to the nigger from Yellowstone. Congratulations to her.

Congratulations to Hassee. I don't know his name, but yeah. I feel like his name is, is his name, Benny? I don't know. That doesn't sound right. He doesn't look like a Benny. Benny, something like that.

I saw that they got married. I'm like, those are Rachel's friends. Did you get an invite to the wedding? No, no, no, we're not that close. We're not that close. No, I was not invited to the wedding. Question. How close do you be, how close do you have to be

to get an invite to somebody's wedding? because there are people that have gotten married recently that I know. Brian. There are people that have gotten married recently that I know. And I haven't been invited to their weddings. And I don't want to go to their weddings, but I would have liked that have been invited. Okay. It's when you get married, it's like a real, when people really talk about putting tables together and guest lists, that really is the hardest thing because you have a budget.

If you have an unlimited budget and you don't care to have a small wedding, then yeah, everybody's invited. But weddings are ridiculously expensive, especially if you're splitting the guest list and you're going to do 50-50, then it's hard. Especially if you have a big family, that's hard too. So it's really like there were a lot of people. I didn't get to invite to my wedding. So, you know, I hope they don't feel a certain way. They just, it's tough. And I had 200 people at my wedding.

And it was still hard. It was 100 for him. It was 100 for me. And like 60 of those people were family, if not more, on my end. So there's a lot of factors to play into it. There are two people here that got married recently at the Ringer, who I thought I was cooler with than I actually am, and I didn't get invited to either of their weddings.

Well, I wasn't invited either. So there you go. They know who they are. And I want them to both know that I love them so much. They've got so much for me here. they're such great people the both of them. I'm going to remember this.

They got married to each other? No. Two separate two separate weddings. Well, you could name them. I don't know. I'm not going to name. Oh, you know one of them.

Do I? Is that who I met the other day? No. You know one of them. You know one of them very well. Didn't even get a sniff, not even for a reception. Well, clearly not.

I didn't even know they were getting married. So I don't know them that well. Yep. Well, congratulations. I love both of these people such beautiful, hardworking, amazing, smart people. They're such great people. Yeah. Chelsea didn't invite us.

Chelsea said, fuck y'all. Chelsea didn't invite us. That caused me to open up a BBI investigation. No, no, no, no. You can't do that. It's only for biracial people. I know, but there will be a future biracial. There's the case waiting for their unborn.

child. That's ridiculous. Anyways, yes, Chelsea, she's a beautiful bride. Beautiful bride. Great, great, great, great, great colleague. I was just like, could I get, I'll bring my own stuff. What if you, what if somebody invites you to their wedding, but you say that you'll bring your own stuff? Like, I'll bring my own.

Like, I'll go, so listen, listen, so I don't have to take from any of the food or the drinks. I'll go by, I'll go by blood so's, right? Shout out to blood so's. Because whenever I'm having something, Bloodsows has never given me a dime. But whenever I'm having something, everybody knows that they could count on blood so's being there.

That's true. Bloods is the most consistent, amazing food that you're going to get in L.A. You're never going to go wrong with it. Ever. Ever. You introduce me to Bloodsos, and I keep Wingstaff and Bloods at any gathering

that I have in my house now. Boom. I'll stop by blood soles, get a fourth of a pound, maybe a half a pound of rip tips, okay, some greens. It's a liquor store right up the street. I stop, I'll get my own liquor.

I'll bring a wedding doggy bag, fold out chair in the back, bang, my own food, my own drink. Just let me dance with you. Yeah, see. Nobody wants that.

That's fine. All right, guys. Oh, before we get into some, a couple of headlines, before we get into the, show. The jury is deliberating right now in the Donald Trump Hush Money trial. Rachel, just real quick. What do you think is going to happen? Do you have any thoughts? I don't know. You know, I haven't been

following it like that, but from what I am saying, it really is a lot of it seems to be a lot of people are talking about Michael Cohen's testimony and whether or not he is deemed credible. Will a jury believe him? It seems to really come down to the things that he's saying. And from what I hear, I don't know, it could go either way. I was watching Morning Joe this morning and they tricked me where they were like, a jury dropped the charges and they were alluding to try to make it seem like it was Trump. And then they were talking about the golfer who was detained, arrested. I don't even know who's fully arrested or not. So I was like, oh my gosh, all this and they dropped the charges. And that's not what happened.

But anyways, I don't know. You've been following it more closely than me. What do you think's going to happen. Do you think that a jury will believe Michael Cohen? Because I know he's made some statements on other podcasts about revenge. Some people are saying he wanted to be a part of Trump's administration. Trump didn't let him. So he's like, this is his whole vendetta to take him down. I don't, I don't know. And if he's found not guilty, I don't know what this means of how the people will view him. Okay, so here's the deal. If Donald Trump is found not guilty in this hush money case,

he will win the presidency, in my opinion. Donald Trump, I think they're scared. I think Donald Trump is afraid. I think his, he came out and he said that the trial wasn't fair and all of that. I think they're not feeling very good.

I think he's not feeling very good about it. Michael Cohen is a sleeves bag, but there's almost no reason to not believe the things that he's saying. Sure. He's a sleeves bag. What he's saying is absolutely true. If the jury chooses to not believe Michael Cohen because they believe that there's some

nefarious scheme that he's lying about Donald Trump, I think that would be remarkable. But there's not a lot of reason to believe that Michael Cohen is making of things up. I mean, they weren't able to poke some holes on them. He did steal some money and he admitted to stealing the money so he was on the stand. But to me,

for however serious you take these charges against Donald Trump, I think that the prosecution has proved the case. I think it was always going to come down to without argument. So we'll see what happens. But I do think if Trump beats this, I think if Trump

beats this, the narrative that comes out of this is that he's being unfairly excoriated by the legal system. And even though the cases in Florida and in Georgia are pretty ironclad, those cases will be pussyfooted over and delayed until sometime after the election, which won't affect him that much.

And because of that, the narrative that he's being unfairly persecuted will go crazy. He'll raise a shit ton of money, and it'll be even harder to beat him. So then on the opposite end of that, if he is found guilty of these charges, then do you think that that means he loses?

I think there'll be an automatic polling bump for Joe Biden, an automatic polling bump for Joe Biden, because I think a lot of voters who are still wavering will maybe take a step back. but it will be up to Joe Biden to keep the momentum of his candidacy up until November.

And for that, I think that would be a huge sign for them. We're going to talk about what's going on right now in Gaza and Israel's disgusting war crime. Their attack on a refugee Camp in Rafa.

We're going to talk about that after the break. I think that's going to be the issue that remains a thorn in the sign of the Biden administration. I'll tell you one thing right now. Real quick before we get to this. All right. Just be completely honest with the audience here. I wanted to come out on the podcast

and give a robust endorsement for Joe Biden. I really wanted to do that. And I'll tell you why. I think that a lot of people are missing the mark here about how it is we go about doing our business. What it is that we do and how it is that we do it. I don't have a spiritual endorsement for Joe Biden. I don't have an energetic or an inspirational endorsement for Joe Biden.

I don't have any of that stuff, right? I don't have any of that. But a political endorsement is not a spiritual endorsement. It's not an inspirational endorsement. I don't have any I like. or hope and change for Joe Biden. But the endorsement that I have is essentially me saying

this is the candidate that I want to win and I want you to want him to win too. That's it. That's a political decision made based upon a political calculus that has to include the person that he's running against. It just has to include the person

that he's running against that person. So my endorsement for Joe Biden was going to be, I'm endorsing Joe Biden because I don't want his opposition to take control of the White House and dictate the political rhythms of this country from the top down. I don't want that for myriad reasons that we've talked about at Malizey on this podcast. I simply can't do that because of what's going on in Gaza. I can't do it.

that endorsement that I want to give, that endorsement that I want to give, even though there are things that I wanted from my community that hasn't, that haven't been done, I just can't endorse over a pile of dead bodies. Like, I can't do it. And that's literally the thing, to me, it would be disrespectful to the suffering

of so many people to endorse over their burnings, flesh. Like, like, and so, um, as we talk about how we want to show up as world citizens and what it is we want to be and who it is that we want to be,

it's important to remember that it's about us and about how we feel and about our community and about what we want and about how we see ourselves. But it's also about who we want to be, where we want to go, and how complicit we want to be in, in many different things. And so, um, I do think that people that are hesitant in coming out and saying, hey, I'm voting for this guy. And then look, all kinds of people I know, I'm voting for this guy and you should vote for him too because there's something else, there's something worse waiting for us.

I think we probably need to move away from that, from that method of thinking. I don't think it helps. I think it's, it oddly works in favor of the other side. but the moment I decided to do that on the podcast, I was reminded that the president doesn't have the political will to stand up and stand in the way of the needless and indiscriminate death of human beings getting burned to death while their family members watch.

and I can't, I'm not, I'm not a moral stalwart of any kind, but at this point I can't do it. I get it. I mean, I've been on this podcast a number of times talking about, you know, like we have to come out right and say that this is what we're doing to combat those people, specifically within our community who are big up in Trump. Trump is absolutely benefiting from not being in office right now because if he was in office, he would still be supplying all of the weapons and standing, and not only just that, additionally supporting Netanyahu

and the far-right extremist Israeli government that backs him. He absolutely would. So Biden, it's all about the timing as well. I would never vote for Trump no matter what, but I understand exactly what you're saying about it feels so wrong to throw your support behind someone who is throwing their support behind ammunition that is literally being found on the grounds that took away innocent lives of civilians, women, children, Palestinians. How do you do that?

Because a public support of him is also supporting that. I don't know how you outright come and say it. I can say I'm not going to vote for Trump, but how do I throw my support behind, publicly throw my support in that way behind Biden? I totally understand you. I do. And I'm very conflicted by that.

The White House has to make a decision and quickly about how to navigate this and about how to show up here. That's it. I don't have anything more, I don't have anything smart. to say. What I said was probably already dumb enough. On the other side of this break, we have a guest to talk about

the recent controversy with Israel's strike on refugee camp in Gaza. Israel claims that it was trying to target some Hamas leadership. There was a high civilian toll and the world has responded. On the other side of this break. The playoffs are here. And you're not. You can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner.

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if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Okay, we have been keeping an eye on Gaza and the developments there as Israel continues to prosecute its war there and has been brutally, brutally attacking different places in Gaza, displacing millions of people and killing tens of thousands. We have a guest today that's going to help us kind of make sense of the latest. is out of Gaza, which I'm sure everyone who listens to our podcast has heard about, airstrikes in Rafa on a refugee camp that killed dozens of people. Israel said that they were trying to kill some upper-level Hamas operatives, and they ended up burning civilians alive.

Akbar, Hashid Ahmed, is the senior day. diplomatic correspondent for the Huff Post. It's based in Washington. Native Pakistani. He's reported from across the Muslim majority world, Europe, Asia, and the U.S. Thank you so much for joining us on higher learning today. Akbar, like, as I tried to get the words out about what happened, it was very difficult to stay still and kind of deal with it. I think the entire world right now is wondering what the end game is for all. of this, particularly the horrific images that came out of Rafa in this in this past, really flagrant and

genocidal act by Israel, in my opinion, not putting that on you, or disturbed people. It seemed like this was a third rail for a lot of people in terms of how they viewed the conflict itself. Do you get that sense that this was the red line for a lot of diplomats and countries around the world? Yeah, I think the images of

a beheaded baby, right, of people, families burning to death in plastic tents, right? And these are families who have already been displaced many times, important to remember, and there's basically only one partially functioning

hospital, Romanian ruffet. So there's no way even get medical treatment. I think it's that combination of factors that makes this moment so jarring for a lot of U.S. officials, to your point, for a lot of governments around the world. I mean, you've seen the European allies of the U.S. come out and say this is just shocking indescribable. You've seen the U.N. and independent aid groups say that. From the Biden administration, you have seen denial. I mean, you've seen them say, yes, we acknowledge this, they call it heartbreaking,

they hold it devastating, but they said it still hasn't crossed the red line. It's still not a major military operation. And at this point, what it really raises a question of is, what does that even mean? Right? I mean, we're talking about this phrase

that is the red line for them, and it's really unclear what that means, because Israel is advancing in all kinds of ways that are hugely damaging. Yeah, that's, I think that's what a lot of people, in addition to everything, that you just said, what also makes this so jarring is the response from the U.S.

or the confusion behind it. What does this red line mean? What, you know, I think it was Anthony Blinken who, or maybe it wasn't. Some U.S. official started saying that, well, this is what it actually means. It means the ground. I have it right here. I don't want to misquote it. a major ground operation is thousands and thousands of troops moving in a maneuvered, concentrated, coordinated way.

I don't know if you can speak to that, but that's more detail than I feel like we've gotten before when it comes to the red line. And when it's spelled out in that way, it seems as if that's easy for Israel to be able to get around. Okay, so thousands of thousands, that doesn't cross the line. Can you speak to that? Yeah, I think that's a really good way to put it, actually, because they have been vague before now. They've just said, we don't want to see the kind of operations we've seen in the north and then in central Gaza. Important to remember that when those operations were happening, they were getting warnings about them every single day. Right. It's not that it was only after the operation concluded that it was clear there was a huge civilian toll, huge destruction to infrastructure.

And importantly, a lot of bombs left behind, right, that make every part of Gaza now unsafe. They had all that knowledge. Now they're saying we don't want to see that. And to your point, Rachel, I do think it leaves a lot of wiggle room for the Israelis. You've seen the administration, particularly people like John Kirby, the White House spokesperson on national security, kind of go even further to say, this is okay. Right? So he's talked about the Israelis are taking over the border with Egypt. That's kind of okay.

I think if we zoom out, right, the reality is a million people have now been. displaced as thought of this Israeli operation in Rafa. Right? It began on May 7th, a million people displaced. The UN has now said since it began May 7th, basically aid in Kasa has gone down to two-thirds of what it was before, and we know that what it was before was insufficient. Right.

So people are displaced, even more desperate, further from aid, less aid going in, and as attacks on hospitals. So I think, you know, some of my sources in government have put it dissuaded, and I think it really gets to the point. At this point, it's almost weasel words from the Biden administration, right? Because we've heard them say, the red line has evolved in so many ways. Their hold on weaponry for Israel, I mean, don't forget, it was just like three weeks ago that we were talking about, oh, President Biden finally stopped a weapons shipment for Israel, right?

That was their headline for a while. But so many other kinds of weapons are still slowing, are still being proposed, and all the other support that's enabling this offensive. whether it's intelligence support, whether it's diplomatic support, whether it's refueling ammunition, that's all still happening. So from the Biden administration's perspective, I think they do need to be telling a different story here because the obvious carnage and the very limited military gain, I mean, you talked about what's the end game here, I think that that's really unclear.

I mean, what you've seen in the last six weeks is, in fact, that Hamas has regrouped. So even if you take Israel's point that, look, Hamas attacked us on, October 7th, it was hugely brutal. We need to undercutter, so they can't do that again. You haven't achieved that in eight months of this war. What we've achieved is 36,000 people dead. Yeah, there are actually reports that Hamas has started to regroup in the north where Israel has left, and that the evidence, that is evidence of the fact that they haven't been hamstrung in a large way

or decapitated in a large way that would keep that southern border safe. So that gets back to the question of what is the purpose of demounting civilian deaths that we see in Gaza. Let me ask you something else. When this first happened, when reports first started to come out, there were tweets that came from the IDF that denied this attack, only to have Netanyahu later on come back and describe it as a tragedy. the tweets from the IDF were basically trying to, you know, it was an operation that there was propaganda that it kind of didn't happen. Did you see those tweets? Yeah.

Importantly, they also said it was in a safe zone, which we now don't be true, right? Right. And then then Yango comes back and says that it's a tragic mistake. How trustworthy is the Israeli government in describing what it is they've done? and what they can be held responsible for. Can we believe what they say? I think there's huge divisions on the Israeli side, right? So there's the Netanyahu government,

there's the spin doctors, that's the communications professionals who are running these IDF accounts and who are also running just a lot of quite aggressive Israeli messaging, right? You've seen them come off to actual officials of other governments. So I think that needs to be taken

with a huge grain of soul. That said, there are, it's really military professionals, national security experts, hugely frustrated and really am happy, and feel that this is not the kind of military that we signed up for and that we would expect the world to support.

So in terms of actual Israeli investigations, the record shows us, right? The world did not begin, they're not making October 7th. The record shows us prior to October 7th, and since then, when these Israelis have been doing investigations, they don't hold a lot of people accountable.

They just don't do it. That's not a way that. Can you give us some examples of that for people that might not be aware. Yeah, a really good, important one is just thinking about the fact that the U.S. is the main supplier for Israel. Without the U.S. support, Israel could not do any of these operations. In 2022, an Israeli soldier shot a bullet that killed an American citizen, a journalist

called Shirin Abu Ackley, a Palestinian-American, reporting in the West Bank during a military raid. And really, there's so many echoes of this often with these incidents. The Israelis initially said, wasn't us, must have been Palestinian militants. Then they did their review and they said, okay, it was our bullet, but we don't know how the bullet got there. Two years down the line, she's been dead and she's an American citizen, right? Not a single Israeli soldier has been held tangible, not anyone in the chain of command, not even like a slap on the wrist to say you're suspended, you know? So that's a really powerful example, I think. where we are right now with more information coming out like it's now coming out that it was you at u.s.

bombs were used in the strike um it's now i think i saw that tanks are now entering rotho which is another thing that at one point president biden said was a no no with more information coming like that do you think or is there any intel that you have or any pressure that's put on the administration where we will see some sort of change in how they're handling Israel at the moment. I do think there's growing internal pressure. I think you've seen this especially from actual military experts inside the guffalo, right? So Secretary Austin has been really vocal both publicly and also internally. You saw Chairman of Joint Chief, CQ Brown, come out.

I think at the State Department, they've now been so many resignations repeatedly. I mean, when I just thought it this week, that puts pressure on LinkedIn. I think the real thing that I keep going back to is it's one man's decision. This process is not being run from what my sources tell me inside government, the way any other policy process has been run, even Ukraine, even Afghanistan, right, in terms of getting in the consultation from all the government experts. So it is the question of who can get through the President Biden. I think the degree of the links to this strike

and the fact that at this point there have been so many warnings to Israel and so many promises by Israel, I mean, it wasn't, it was less than two months ago that we were talking about the medical workers strike, right, Jose Andres and Wilson said, this happened, you know,

they promised to improve targeting after that, right? They promised to increase aid after that. So the administration is an unturnable position. It's not where they wanted to be. And all the while, I mean, their desired outcomes are true, right? They do not want to be seen as cutting off support for Israel because they feel that could damage them politically.

It's not that person beliefs, the whole range of reasons. They either want Netanyahu's government to fall within Israel, right? So you've seen them kind of talk about Netanyahu a lot as the problem. I would say that wouldn't change the policy very much because any alternative would probably pursue a pretty similar policy, or they're hoping for a deal for truce and a hostage release. But the problem in that is while the US is playing a huge role in getting the Israelis and Hamas and everyone else involved, Qatar and Egypt, to talk together about what that deal would look like. There's not an incentive for Israel right now to take a deal, right?

They're not losing anything from not taking a deal. And on the Hamas side, too, there is really a clear incentive because they say, well, the U.S. is going to stop Israel from doing what it wants to do. So why would we accept this deal when six weeks down the last? they're just going to start bombing again. And that's the impassar app. So that's the thing that kind of needs to change is will U.S. support be actually in question to make a deal possible?

I don't want to get too deep into the weeds of, I know you're not like a, I wouldn't assume that you're a military expert, but I do want to talk about the types of bombs that might have been used in this strike. I've seen criticism that's talked about the fact that there are more precise. munitions that can be used when precise munitions want to be used and that the

munitions being used and dropped in Gaza, particularly in this strike, are of the more dumb bomb type that don't really take into consideration civilian casualties. Is their truth to that? Is Israel bombing indiscriminately in places where there are dense civilian populations? There's two parts to that. We know for sure that the Israelis have created through their military operations, conditions where there is no safes and arguably no legal way to pursue a military operation. Because when you have so many people so densely packed, even if you have 10, 20, 30, 40, 40 Hamas leaders,

there's no way for it to be a proportional strike, right, for you to get those people and not kill a lot of other people while you're trying. So that would be illegal. What we know about the bombs that they have been using is they've been trying to use smaller bombs than the 2,000-pound bombs that they were using before. 2000-pound bombs, again, can never be safely used in a civilian area, but they were using them repeatedly, and that's when President Biden said indiscriminate use of bombs.

From the Israeli perspective, because there's no endgame, right, the more that they can say, look, we took out Hamas leadership. We took up Hamas fighters. I think that's, it's sort of a scrambling for a win at this point. And so the conversation is becoming less about what methods are we using to do that and more, how do we justify this war when again, we're facing so much international criticism. And not to mention, we could face legal accountability, right?

I mean, we've seen the ICC talk about arrest warrants for its radio officials. This could come up further at the ICJ. So there's a kind of panic and scrambling that I think is affecting their calculus on what they're using and how they're talking about. One follow-up there. Can I have one follow-up, Richard? Okay, one follow-up there. I've seen people compare the way the United States dealt with the Islamic State and removing them from Iraq

to the way Israel is prosecuting their war in Gaza. And look, I don't think anybody is going to give any cookies to the United States for foreign policy and the way they've conducted foreign wars. But I have seen people say that there was huge differences in the way that Petraeus, one, rallied the citizens there that were dealing with ISIS around the cause and be the way the United States went about ensuring the safety of civilians when they went through their bombing campaign. Can you speak to that? Are there differences in the way they went about eliminating ISIS?

Well, they didn't quite decapitated ISIS. They came back. But the way they went about doing that and the way Israel is going about prostitution at Boran Gaza. And if so, if we know that we're not doing it the same way, why are we so hesitant to be critical of them? It's starting to get, I don't understand. If we know that there's a better way to do this, then why aren't we pressuring the Israelis to do it in that way?

So I think it is a question of knowledge, right? Important to remember because, and this is a whole lot of conversation, by doing it's a relevant conversation because the national security establishment has not changed, right, and keeps promoting the same people again and again. You actually have a lot of the same people who were involved in that early ISIS fight,

the second ISIS fight, who are now in positions of power, right? And know what it took to take most people, to take Raka, etc. It's indisputable from officials and from third-party groups that US best practices for shielding civilians are not being followed by the Israeli.

Now, you can argue, it's funny because defenders of the Israeli practice will say, well, Hamas is so brutal, so we don't have to do it, which is in itself an admission that they're not doing it, right? But then they'll say, well, sometimes we are. We know it's different. Another big factor is that in those operations, I mean, not only did the U.S. had its own kind of civilian protection guidelines, it wasn't up against everyone else, right? the US was working with eight groups and saying, how can we get civilians out before we go in and do what we want to do? How do we establish a safe 10 for them to be so that there's not a risk when my bombing 1-10 ISIS fighters or leaders that were hitting them?

That hasn't happened in Rafa. If anything, Israel has been really combative and confrontational with anyone who's questioned it, including professional humanitarian. And to your question of why, I'd invite the president and ask him. But I do think it's a mixture of his. personal views. He's a longstanding, deep, deep, deep supporter of Israel who has a view of it that was really formed by Israel of the 70s and 80s and maybe not Netanyahu today and the willingness to be brutal and a political concern of how it will play out.

You mentioned the ICJ. What does the ruling that the ICJ had on Friday mean for Israel? because since that ruling, they bombed twice in in Gaza or Rothman. Right. And at least twice, you know, I mean,

it's not odd to follow these strikes because often there'll be multiple bombings and like the same rate. I think it's, the ICJ case is not going away, right? I think that's the most important part of the January ruling,

regardless of it not stopping the war and saving lives in that moment. Because the judges at that point said, it's plausible. to believe that there's a risk of genocide against this protected group of people, Palestinians. They've never said that before. Once they said that,

now you've opened the door to like years and years of conversations. So for the Israelis, it does get into a question of, you're going to be asked about this at a hearing months, years down the line, how are you going to defend yourself? And it's going to make it that much harder. I mean, you've seen already the Israeli defenses of the ICJ have been very tough because it's a small group of Israeli lawyers. sometimes backed by the Americans, sometimes backed by other allies,

and then just a huge group of other countries, right, who are saying you are committing genocide, stop. That defense is going to be really hard to maintain. And so I think for a lot of Israelis, too, I was talking earlier about the split in their society. It goes back to this question of, have you made our state safer? Because have you made us a pariah on the world stage for the years to come?

Has you alienated our biggest ally from the global south? because it seems so hypocritical that the U.S. is going to build relationships abroad and advocate for these values when it's letting us get away with this. So I think that's real risk that that is really growing for them. And once again, we thank you so much for joining us. What is, in your estimation, from talking about this, educating people on it, what's the best case scenario that could remain? it seems like a situation that's going to end up in the type of loss of life that many feared after the October 7 terrorist attacks.

It seems like there'll be irreparable damage done to Gaza. The infrastructure gone. Thousands of people killed hundreds of thousands of thousands. of people injured. Is there any, any, any hope that the, the world community can get this to stop

and make Gaza habitable for its residents again? I think the hope comes from Palestinians themselves, right, who are enduring and who are saying, we're still here. Don't forget about us. We want to have futures. We want to be in our land. I've been to Gaza.

I reported from there prior to the war, and I think that's really informed my coverage, because I was able to see how it was functioning and how under at that point a decade-plus siege, also Hamas rule, which was repressive, you know, just really tough conditions. The people of Gaza were finding ways

to educate themselves to rise up, to live while Israel wasn't letting construction supplies in. So I don't think there's a winning. There's no possible win on the graves of the 1,200 people killed on October 7, the hostages who have been killed, all of that, and then the 35,000 plus in Gaza. but I think the point of we can't let these cycles of violence continue, right, has been made really powerfully, right?

So before October 7th, the Biden administration was saying, we don't have to deal with a subout sign. Let occupation continue, let the guards that blockade continue, but it's kind of quiet. I mean, the explicitly said Jek-Selven said the Middle East is quieter than it's been in two decades and the next, you know, the next week you have this. That framework is dead. So that to me is like the silver lining that we have to get to a conversation of

Israeli-Palestinian justice. Either Israel making a concession probably under the U.S. pressure to accept some form of Palestinian self-rule in Gaza and the West Bank as a price of ending this war in a way that leaves their reputation partially intact, or some other kind of format. But I don't think it's sustainable to go back to the place of risking these cycles of war again and again. And that's, I guess that's to be so. In terms of the international community,

I do think, though, that the European countries that came out and recognized Palestine as a state was a huge thing that happened. Absolutely. Yeah. And so the more the U.S. feels its own friends are saying you're so far away from us. President Biden is feeling that,

personally from the Democratic Party, right? Most of whom all across, I mean, up to Nancy Pelosi are saying this kind of continue. that isolation also feeds into it. So I think as that international pressure builds, maybe that's the hope. You have had obtained rare interviews with Hamas leaders and reported on that.

I think that came out like April. Have you been able to talk to them since or has any new information come out about their vision for the future, about where they stand now with all. this developed since your last interviews? I think they've been a little more clear that they I mean that their number one priority,

especially as the ratha offensive kind of picked up in early May has been we want to stop the fighting. That's their stated priority. Skeptics of Hamas will say that's because Ratha is the only place they still have battalions and still have some control. So while they are researching, it's more in kind of a gang format in the north. I think the ray of hope that's coming,

and not just from Hamas, but kind of broader Palestinian factions, is this intra-Palestinian solidarity that's sort of building up. So because the Palestinians have been divided between the West Bank, the ruled by Fatah, Hamas and Gaza, that's made it a lot easier for just the situation

to continue, to not to say, there's no one on the outside the table, so we can't have a peace deal. What I have heard from Palestinian sources, including from Hamas, is kind of this increased, significantly increased engagement across the Palestinian political spectrums. We're talking about leftist, super leftists to Hamas, which is Bidenist-on-est, you know, conservative group.

That conversation, I think, is continuing in that kind of form a basis for a future deal or settlement. But I think that for them, for them it's probably double down on the sense that I talked about in the story in April was for all the brutality of October 7th and all that has come since, including to their own families, they feel really good about it, which is in itself really interesting and perhaps informs our analysis of violence as a means to achieving political ends. They feel this has at least brought this issue back to the forefront. And I think that continues to be that kind of

Lordstar. Many Palestinians would say, well, we didn't sign up to you to do it in this way, but that's the world that's sort of in right now. Hamas, brutal terrorist organization that no doubt committed war crimes on October 7th. Is there any truth to the fact that Netanyahu wanted Hamas in power in Gaza because he was afraid of the more moderate, Mahmoud Abbas, being having any type of sway in Gaza because the PLO

are fans of the two-state solution and Hamas are not that he did everything he could to keep Hamas propped up and in power for as long as he's been the prime minister of of Israel but yeah I mean we know that's from Israeli

officials we know it's from Israeli analysts right so don't take it from Palestinians take it from the Israelis who were in government we know that that was Netanya who's strategy, I would argue it was, it was really more about, because Hamas argues they are for a true state solution. Now, we don't know. That's their position. They say, they don't say we would acknowledge Israel as a state, but they say we would accept a Palestinian state limited to 1967 borders, which.

Well, it's going to be difficult to have a two-state solution if you don't acknowledge Israel as a state. That is sort of problem. Yeah. But it's, but it's an evolution of that position from what it's. was in the 80s. I mean, that was a shift that they took in 2017, saying we would accept. This state, only on these borders, we're not going to talk about what's on the other side and between. They may not have relations with Israel, but they could live alongside it. I think is the idea there. From Netanyahu's point of view, certainly he propped up Hamas. That's

indisputable at this point. And I think it's worth asking if there's a political value for him in continuing the war, right? In Hamas, continuing to be a force and to continue rallying Israelis behind him and saying, I'm going to finish the job against Hamas. We know that job isn't finishing. Now we see Israeli officials saying the war could continue for six, seven, eight months, maybe even years. That's a convenient bogeyman, right? So what you're talking about prior to October 7,

Hamas was in a way, almost a partner of Netanyahu in making it harder to get to a peace deal, making talks harder because the one wants to talk to Hamas. Now, Hamas and Netanyahu are also feeding each other different. differently, right? Because both of them are gaining from the war continuing. Hamas can also say, look at Palestinian suffering. The only thing that works is on resistance and also just use the rallying cry, right? Of these thousands of children who've lost parents, of thousands of parents who lost children, people who are just angry and are looking for some way to fight that.

Last question for me. National Security Advisor came on Israeli Radio and basically said that they still expect another seven months of fighting this year, and they're going to keep going. And so they achieve and accomplish, I'm paraphrasing here, what it is that they want in regards to the destruction of Hamas' government and military capabilities. How do they survive this? With eight, you talked about aid at the top of this, that aid is two-thirds of what they already had, which was already lacking. Seven months more of this is going to completely destroy the Palestinian civilians. How can this happen? How, like, if you can speak to that at all, I know I'm asking you to

predict a little bit, but hearing this come out is so troubling. Yeah, it's really jarring. I mean, because I think the Biden administration did not want this vote to be ongoing today, much less as it wanted to be continuing through the election, right, and potentially into whatever comes off the election. For Palestinian civilians, it's unimaginable. I mean, what you already see is that people have moved five, six, seven, eight times. Many of them are injured.

Most of them, actually, I think now the statistic is officially every single civilian in Gaza is now in some form of malnutrition, right? Whether it's severe, like close to famine or even in famine, or just pretty intense. That makes you weaker, makes it harder to move, makes it harder to get to where there are supplies.

I think you're going to end up with a really malnourished, wounded, traumatized population that's not going away. So how do they survive this? They'll find a way to survive. The question is kind of, how do you help them after that?

And I think reconstruct infrastructure to some degree, have some resurrection of residential buildings and electricity and getting aid to people, schools, that will have to happen.

From the American point of view, Arab countries are going to write a black check. That's obviously not something Arab countries feel they really want to do, given that they did not provide the bombs to Israel or bomb the hell out of Gaza.

But the Americans are pushing hard for rich Arab countries, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirates to make a commitment to do that. I think they would make a degree of a commitment because there is a strong sense still of like intra-Arab solidarity that matters there.

But that has to come in the framework of give these people a future, right? Don't just create a band-aid till Israel comes and bombs again and there's another war and we don't have a deal. Move us out of this paradigm. Oh, my man, my man, my man, my man. I hope that everyone out there is paying attention to what's going on

and how you may be funding or assisting in the suffering of people halfway across the world. And I hope that at some point our leaders grow some spines. Agbar, thank you for joining us today on higher learning. Can we check back in with you if we have more questions in the future, man? I love that. Thank you so much for joining us. Where can they find you at before you jump out of here? What can they find you at?

I'm on Twitter. I'm on Puffolus.com. Yeah. There's no such thing as Twitter. We call it X round these parts. I'm on. I want to. All right.

Thank you for joining. Thank you. Take care. Thanks for. All right. You too. Agbar. It's a fantastic interview.

All questions to answer. You know, once again, I know that people feel like they're caught device in terms of the future of America and how America is showing up as a player in geopolitical angst. But I've talked to a friend recently. He told me something. All of these issues are interconnected. Philosophically and outright policy-wise, they're interconnected. These are interconnected issues. If you think that there'll be justice for you here, but in some other place across the world,

on the other side of the world, power and dominance won't matter. You probably have another thing coming. It's all I say. I wish that I had been a better advocate for the time I've been on this podcast, but enough is enough. We've got to call balls and strikes how we see them.

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Drake got a gigantic defender. Okay, like huge. We'll take a twist here towards entertainment. Drake, Drake himself got Michael Eric Dyson on his side. Oh, my God. Give me the audio right here. Michael Eric Dyson, if you guys don't know, is one of the most powerfully inspirational black men on this planet,

a scholar, a writer, an activist, an ally. Michael Harry Tyson is the man, and he's saying that we're treating Drake a little unfairly. Like, give us the audio here, Ashley. And you said the world sees Drake, you're the same thing kind of defending him, as little more than a black man. Right.

Exactly. Really, you think that's the way the world is now, that this country sees Drake as little more than a black man? Look, Rick Ross, one of the rappers, was calling him a white boy. So my point is that you can call him a white boy. I'm saying, when I say a little more, I'm not saying that Drake is not regarded as a pop star of the first magnitude. You know, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, he's up there.

I mean, he's an incredible figure who's transcended many barriers. So no, of course I acknowledge his Promethean prolific characters are hip-hop artists. But I'm saying for all of you who are calling him a white boy, let him get caught at the wrong place at the wrong time. He's just another black person. That's what I was trying to suggest. So you're trying to delegitimize him as not belonging to our culture when the best of our culture has been more expansive. And guess what? Barack Obama, whom you love, was half-black, so to speak.

He was mixed race. Many other black people, Zadis Smith, you know, Charday. There are many African-American people who are mixed-race who have legitimacy, but there's an undercurrent of assault upon his legitimacy as a human being. And to call him a culture vulture because he begins to experiment. JZ made stuff with Spanish and he was seen as experimenting broadly. Drake does it.

You're a culture vulture trying to rip somebody's culture off. Be consistent and understand the beauty of the power, the diversity of blackness and one person can exhaust it up. Michael Eric Dyson getting into the situation there, Rach, what you think? I'm sorry. I love Michael Eric Dyson. But I can't look past the fact that he might be, also having this type of opinion because he is high yellow.

He's a white skin because there's another clip, Ashley, play it. Ashley, play it. Play the Stephen A. Smith clip. Patrick Lamar is a brilliant rapper and a formidable foe, but so is Drake. And what he's done to expand the horizon of hip-hop is underestimated. Even artistically, I'm saying. People, well, he goes into one style and he does that. He goes over to UK drill and he does that.

He goes over to balance music. He does that. He deals with the Caribbean. He does this. Why are you looking at a positive as a negative? We have to stop this narrow, punishing, pernicious, limited viewpoint about blackness. Charlemagne the God calling, he said, this half Negro. And I want to say Charlemagne, there's a lot of half Negroes out here who have done tremendous

work for African American culture so that the name calling, the kind of ad hominem remarks, as opposed to a full-on embrace of the rhetorical diversity and splendor that is Drake. To me, that would be a fairer fight dealing with the colorism we see in our own communities because there's no question that light, bright, almost white was a thing, is a thing, and we have to pay attention to that. So I'm arguing in this sense for us to understand the power and the prolific character of a genius like Aubrey Greg Graham. You know what that is.

That's a fallback position. Anytime black folks got a problem with black, with other black folks, somebody sold out in somebody's eyes. That's the ultimate argument. And I think that Kendrick Lamar heard himself with that one point that you just articulated so brilliantly. Those men are in their feelings,

both of them. Hey, hey, I fuck with both of them. Hey, I fuck with both of them. Andy. I fuck with Michael Aaron Dyson. I fuck with Stephen A. Smith. That's some cope that's happening right there, man. It's got some coke.

There's been some unfair things that have been said about Stephen A. Like, really, really, especially recently. Of course. Some unfair things that have been said about Stephen A. I've never heard people speak that way about Michael Eric Dyson, but it seems like it's there in his past. He's kind of dealing with it. I can't look fast.

I can't look fast. His band lights, for those who are not familiar, know you're with him, I think that's important for them to know as well. Listen, I have so much respect for Michael Eric Dyson, but I just feel like he's missing the mark on this one. He is right. People shouldn't attack Drake because he's half black or, you know, he grew up a certain way and say that, you know, like he's not black enough. This is where I'm projecting, right? I understand that in that sense. But I don't feel like

that's all Kendrick was doing. I think what a lot of people have issues with, and we talked about this on this podcast, is you are rapping about being somebody you're not. Not you're being black. It's about you

acting as if you are something to fit into an African American culture that you are not, which is the issue. You're imitating this culture. You're acting like you're above it. Not above it. I mean, of it. And that to me is the biggest taboo on Drake or taboo thing that Drake does because you're not from here and you're pretending like and you're rapping about a lifestyle like you are. It's not collaborating. Like he brings up

the example of Jay-Z collaborating with Spanish artists. That's not the same thing. He is literally adopting a person, a persona that he is not. And that's not. saying he's presumed he's adopting blackness. He's acting as if he's a part of African American culture and rapping about that. And that seems to be problematic. And that's something, or that is problematic to me. And that's not what Michael Eric Dyson is addressing here. So OVO Michael is. Wow. Wow. I love Dr. Dyson. OVO Michael. O'O Michael. I love Dr. Dyson. Okay, but these are the questions that are being asked. Two things.

Number one, I do think that there's probably a need and a want for black people right now to define blackness as something more than how poorly you're treated. Right. And what that means is that, like, yo, if, I remember the joke back in the day used to be if Tiger Woods is running down the street with a T-E-South. on his shoulder. How do they describe him as a black man that stole the television, right?

Drake right here, Michael Eric Dyson, is saying, hey, if something happens to Drake or if Drake gets into a situation, he's going to be described as a black man. I think for me personally, and maybe for some other people, I speak for myself,

we want blackness to be participatory. We want there to be agency and blackness. We want blackness to be more than about how poorly America treats you. So we're all black. They're going to show you you a nigger. Yeah, maybe. But what are you going to do to affirm your blackness

and to participate in black culture and the upliftment, the agency, and the freedom of black people when you're not being persecuted? OJ has his, I'm a nigger moment, come to Jesus moment when he is accused of murder, right? Well, the thing about it is, in the entire time that O.J. was outside, of the black community or not being participatory

in the black community, we could have used in OJ. We could have used the advocacy of some of these people. We could have used the participation of some of these people. So we don't want blackness, and I don't want blackness to just be about how poorly America treats you. I want blackness to be about how you treat black people.

Not how America treats you, how you treat black people. That to me is the flex of your cultural blackness, not how the pain tax, the blood tax that you have to pay. All right. And that's not to say that Drake hasn't done that. It's to say that there is valid criticism of how participatory he's been in our culture.

There is. Like, we've been going through shit. Drake has stayed apolitical about it. Drake has stayed out of the fray when it comes to some of the movements that have sparked up in the last 10 or 15 years. He hasn't been a part of that. You don't become a pop star by being hyper-political and all of those things. You don't.

You turn some people off. Some people might have, so he, he shows not to do that. Then to say, you're rapping as if you're trying to free the slaves. I mean, little things like this, they fuck with people, right? It fuck with people. Yeah, we're trying to free the slaves, nigga. You know what I'm saying? We're trying to free them retroactively.

We're trying to build a time machine now to go back in time and free them then. We'll never stop wanting to free the slaves. Yes, we raping like we're trying to free the slaves. We walk in like we're trying to free the slaves. We dancing like we're trying to free the slaves. We're doing everything like we're trying to free the slaves. What's the problem with that? Like what's the issue with that?

And so those are the criticisms that people are making. Whether or not those criticisms are valid or not, that's something that we can legislate. But those are conversations that I think are worth having from OVO Mike. OVO Michael Eric Dyson. Look, but to Dr. Dyson. this point, who has forgotten more than I'll ever know, ever know about the racial makeup and the socioeconomic societal makeup and the issues of black people. This was forgotten more than I'll ever know,

even though I gently disagree with the man who has shaped so much of my thought around this. I can't be more. I can't be a bigger fan in my car. Larry Dyson. I do think here that the the issues that he brings up surrounding colorism are valid issues. Obviously, they are. I do think in this particular case, it has less to do with the color of Drake's skin and the content of Drake's character. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Josh King. Hey, hey now. Woo! Rachel, what you got for us? Okay, I'm really curious to see or hear your thoughts on this one because a question was put out there on social media and had the social media sphere talking. The question was, can a straight man tell another straight man

that he looks good without it being a problem? We got audio on it. Ashley can you play. Boy look good and I say, boy, you look good boy. No, don't say it like that. It is something wrong with that. It's a problem telling another man on cameras in front of people can see. Yo, man, you look fresh.

Ain't no wrong. That's a good word. That's a good. Can't use trigger words, man. Like good. Like good. You say trauma words, right? I said trigger words.

So that mean that are you traumatized by me and telling you you look good? I didn't ever thought that it was a bad thing to say, scrap, you look good. If I look at you sometimes, I'd be like, what they all look good? No, bro. He gave you a word. Fresh. If I say fresh, your outfit look fresh, but you as an individual, I'm so heterosexual that I can't see a ditty bone in my body. Can you not have a ditty word in your mouth?

Think about it. That's a metaphor. I ain't got a ditty bone in my bottle. No, no, no, no, no, no, listen. And the plet may never put his bone in me. No, no, no, no, no. All right, enough, enough, enough, enough, enough, enough, enough, enough. Okay.

Let me tell you something. I laugh because I see your comment. on it underneath this post. Go ahead. All of them brothers, I'm sure is good brothers. Scrap, all of them brothers. I don't know scrappy. I don't know.

I'm sure all of those brothers are good brothers. We got to grow to fuck up, though, man. Because you know what? Because this is entrenched and undergirded by some really destructive homophobia that doesn't rear its ugly head until it's time, until it comes down to the come down, right?

It feels like a very fun conversation, and it is. But at the same time, what undergirds the conversation is not very fun at all. That's funny. Watching them, it's funny to watch these big super masculine brothers deal with this frailty, and it's very comical. But we got to grow up, man. A nigga look good, he looked good. I got some examples.

So I was thinking about this. I watched this and I'm thinking, you know, looking good is one thing. But it's certain brothers, if I'm being honest, that go past good. They don't just look good. They're fucking beautiful. You know, I got a list.

All right, I was thinking about it. My favorite movie. Mobetter Blues. Okay. Okay. Denzel Washington as Bleak Gilliam in Mobetta Blues. Put the picture off.

Boom, look at him. With the trumpet. You got to be kidding me. I don't even need to see it. I already know. Look at them with the trumpet. Killing. Bleak Gilliam playing a

if you ever see a moment. It's undeniable. You look at him. I looked at him as a kid. I'm like, that's who I want to be. That's who I want to be. I want to be the, he had Cinder Williams called him up. And she was, man, I had a thing for her for so long. Shout out to Billy Bob Thornton. He was married to her. She sang Harlem Blues and Mo Better Blues. And she, you know, I was a young man. And at the time, you know, Spike always gives you the, and I grew up a little bit watching. But all I'm saying is that like he she told her, yo, I'm practicing.

Don't come over while I'm practicing. I'm thinking that's the type of beautiful man, but he's so on his shit. It's crazy. Okay, keep going. We watch an interview with the vampire right now. Have you seen the show?

No, I have not yet, but who's in it? I don't even know this actor's name. But he plays Louis from interview with the vampire. Louis DePontz-Dulac or whatever

look at him look at this dude look at him he is beautiful that's a beautiful man sometimes it's distracted I'm like ah man you ever think you ever look on TV

when they have somebody playing a role and be like this person like whatever the dude is this is a beautiful guy I got eyes a guy's beautiful handsome handsome handsome man I can go on

like look we got the same manager I don't want to put I don't put a Ronde in a weird situation right here I know people get all girded up or whatever and people are like Idris Elba

look at this picture hands down look at this picture how how stupid would you have to be to look at this and be like this guy don't look good

this is a fucking good looking guy pass good right this fucking guy's great looking y'all fellows we gotta get over this It's okay.

It's okay. We know that it's fine, y'all. Just live life. Appreciate beauty. Appreciate beauty. Even if it's from a man, appreciate the beauty of a man. Don't be confident in your shit.

Look, last one, I got to, you know, straight outside the black, Jason Mamoa. Absolutely. Beautiful fucking guy. There. All these men.

What's the problem? What's the problem? What's the problem? But how stupid do you sound saying like using synonyms for good? It means the same thing. Like, guys, guys, let me tell you as a woman,

we don't care to hear you compliment and acknowledge that another man looks good. we see it too. I'll be honest with you, I think that's kind of untrue. Okay. I think there are a lot of women.

I'll speak for me. I think that there are a lot of women who are going to be like, you should be saying another. I think the homophobia works. It's built. Yeah, I think it's built all over the place. I think it's right here.

Well, women, we got to do better too. Let me talk to us. We got to do better. There's nothing wrong with another man acknowledging the obvious. Okay. If you can compliment somebody's got nice shoes, if you can compliment that you like their fit,

their haircut, their jewelry, why can't you acknowledge that their face card does not decline? I do not understand that. I can care less. Let me tell you one last thing. There's one last person. There's somebody else.

Did you save the best for last? Yeah, I saved the best for last. Who's a good looking motherfucker. Van fucking Lathen. I look at myself in the mirror since I turned maybe like 14 or 15. Ashley, I'm going to give you a good picture. Boom, you can't tell me that nigga don't look good.

I look at myself. I'm like, boy, look at you. Look at the way your eyes sit above your nose and the smile and all of that. I, my father's son, I can see I look good. I can see you look good. brother, I can see we look good. And it's okay.

Well said, man. We got to get rid of this. We got to get rid of this. I hope I would love to see this podcast do a follow-up with addressing. Because I didn't read the comments. I didn't do the biopsy. Not what you call it of the comment section. But I'm curious if people took agreed with you or agreed

with them. Because if they agree with you, I would love to see this podcast address it. I don't know if they would and maybe address some of the backlash and maybe address some of these deep-rooted issues that exist within our community. I think there's a real opportunity here. Probably not, but it would be nice. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping, then you'd want a cargo liner or road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on

doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust spectrum business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Did you see the, oh, by the way, some breaking news. I just saw this. Apparently the Trump inward tape. gentleman that said that he's seen the Trump in-word tape or he knows about the Trump in-word tape.

I'll know if you guys heard about this. So way back in the day when Trump was doing the apprentice, there was a guy on there, his name was Kwame Jackson, I think. And it was rumored that they were thinking of having him win and that Donald Trump said, would America accept a nigger as the winner? Slate has reported that one of the guys who was partyed to that

has confirmed the tape's existence. Bill Pruitt is the guy's name in 2004. As a contestant Kwame Jackson winning, said, what America buy a nigger winning is apparently what Donald Trump says. Now, they're saying that this tape exists. This is not new news.

For a long time, they've been talking about the Trump N-word tape. whether or not it existed, whether or not it would be made public. It was sort of like to access Hollywood tape. Now, Slate's reporting that Bill Pruitt is saying that he can finally talk about the tape does exist. Okay, real quick. I love a surprise topic for Rachel. Number one, there's no amount of written articles describing this tape that will substitute

for the existence of the actual tape and the tape and the audio being made. So good work by Slate, good reporting by Slate, but Bill Pruitt, Mark Burnett, whoever has this. If you want this tape to be made public, people need to hear it, they need to see it, whatever, because no amount of reporting on this is going to move the needle at all. Okay. My question to you, Rachel, is this. If, in fact, the Trump inward tape did drop, forget about whether or not they're reporting on it.

If the tape did drop, would Trump supporters care? about the existence of the N-word take. Would it end down to Trump? Come on, come on. Absolutely not. And I started to talk over you as you were talking about the topic because I was like, who cares?

That's, I mean, if you're a Trump supporter, you, like, the extremist, the extremist? Because remember, Trump doesn't claim to be a white supremacist, but for some reason why all, well, we know the reason, white supremacists support Trump. That, they like that.

if Trump can grab him by the pussy, then he can call black folks the N-word and they're not even phased. They don't care. Nobody cares about this. The people who are going to vote for Trump are going to vote for him, either because they love him,

they're obsessed with him, they love his policies, or because they just want to vote on party lines. If America has shown us anything, if we call America a racist nation, if we know that America has shown us time and time, they don't care about the way black people have to walk in this country, then why would they care if Trump said the N-word? And furthermore, I'm trying to look up the year. It doesn't even matter. It's in the past that he allegedly said this about Kwame. They'll say he's a changed man. Let's just say, let's just say the tape comes out. Trump's like, you know what? I've learned my lesson since then. I never should have said it. It was in the past. I've grown. He'll say some stuff like that and they'll believe it. Remember, this is a man who can stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue, shoot somebody and be okay.

Like, what is the N-word when people look at black people the way they do in this country? Come on. You don't think they would care. I think there would be some consternation. I think there would be some consternation in the beginning. But I think the Republicans are too in. I don't think the N-word tape would make a difference. I agree with you, Rachel.

No. And I can see some ignorant people in our community, too, being like, well, I don't know. I can see it. The platitude is going to be so crazy. Well, shit, niggas say it. Yeah. Come on. You know this is the narrative.

Niggas say it. We say the N word. Why can't Trump say it? Y'all say the N word. I can feel the Uncle Tomisms on this before they come on. Y'all say the N word. Why can't Trump say it? I would love to hear what Tim Scott's going to say.

Tim Scott would say this. No, ban, man, ban. Van, ban. Put your lip down. This is what Tim Scott would say. No one should be saying the N-Ward. Like, no one. Donald Trump says it.

I support Donald Trump. Ashley, insert it right here. Insert the growing up part. I support Donald Trump. Whatever Donald Trump says, whatever Donald Trump does, I'm Tim Scott and I'm from America, and I support Donald Trump. Whatever he does, I agree with it.

No one to be saying the N-word. And President Trump, is trying to make us all see that by saying it back in 2004. Now, I know it's wrong. I didn't know before. I got to get home to my wife. We have to grow up, man. To grow up.

Cadence is on point. The cadence was on point with Tim Scott. Guys, I told you, from the top of this podcast to the end, grow up. Hey, like, comment, subscribe. YouTube, you guys got to see that when that's the site gag. You got to see that when you're the side gag. I don't feel like talking about the nigga

who wanted to do the book. And shame on Donnie for sending this topic. That's my. Yeah, by the way, Donnie is gaslighting. Donnie, Donnie not even, Donnie is not even like, Donnie fucking with us.

Donnie is not even. Donnie not even producer right now. He had home for his 19th month of maternity leave. And Donnie's still sending that shit to fuck with. You guys, we would like to thank Akbar, Shahid, Ahmed

from Huff Post for joining us today and talking about a tough topic. Please keep your eyes on Gaza, keep your eyes on Sudan, keep your eyes on Yemen, and the Civil War that's been raging there for a long time. Keep your eyes on

South Baton Rouge, keep your eyes on Liberty City here in Miami, keep your eyes on the Bronx, on the South Shy Chicago, anywhere that you feel like you need to show up and be a better global citizen, keep your eyes on those places. And we're going to continue to try to do that here at Highland. Tough start to the podcast, but it has to keep you guys in that. Take the caps off. I'm Van Lakey Jr.

I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Hi, guys.