Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Nick Saban Retires, and Stephen A. Smith Lets Loose on Jason Whitlock

Episode Date: January 12, 2024

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to Nick Saban’s retirement announcement (11:33) before discussing Stephen A. Smith going scorched earth on Jason Whitlock (22:28). Then, a conversation about Democratic criticism leading up to the election (43:50), and Kai Cenat echoes Christian concerns over Lil Nas X’s latest single (1:09:57). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. Our learning is on. It is I, Van Lakefield, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel. Van. So look, I don't know if you've seen my latest post on Instagram, but I'm here in Baton Rouge and staying at the Hilton by the water. And I think I can swim across the Mississippi River.

Why, Van? What makes you think that you can cross a massive river that I haven't even looked at? I don't even know how far are the distance from one side to the other. But I would imagine that there's a current. Yes. That you would be swimming against. Well, the current is blowing from what I can tell south to north. So I wouldn't necessarily be swimming.

Well, I'm saying, but look, I could swim. I might not swim directly across the river from where I started. But I can make it to the other side if I'm not fighting the current. Let the current push me and continue to swim west. Listen, I'm confident you could make it to the other side. The question is, would you still be with us when you did? Man, you know what the difference between me and you are? It is, is if right now you said,

I feel like I can swim. That was funny. You know what I'm saying? Right now, if you said, I feel like I can swim across the Rio Grande or whatever little bullshit rivers you guys have in Texas. I would say to you, Rachel, I think you could do it. Why would you give me false hope?

See, I want you to still be here with me. I care about your well-being. So I'm just basically trying to tell you, don't. You know, stay in your hotel room, open the window, and look at the mighty Mississippi River. But you don't need to go in. That's how my dad says it. That's how my dad.

Any time we would be cross. Any time we would be. driving to Georgia, he would be like, there she is, the mighty Mississippi. How is the judge doing? He's okay. Almost said something else, but he's okay. Oh, yeah. Keep it on the tuck.

Keep it on the tuck. Keep it on the tuck. All right. Look, I'm not going to get into too many pleasantries this time because there's just so much news. It's like a lot of stuff happening. We got to talk about one thing. There was an issue. There was something that happened amongst our higher learning family.

And I feel like we have to discuss it before we move on. This past weekend, you know, I was in Houston for the national championship game. I thought I would be joined by another thought warrior as in Donnie Beecham, Jr. And imagine my surprise. I was ready. I was like, Donnie, I got fill passes. If Michigan wins, I will give you my pass to go run out on the field and play in that blue and yellow confetti. Imagine my surprise. When I get, I hold up my end of the bargain and I text Donnie and I say, hey, Donnie, where are you sitting so I can give you my pass?

Donnie shoots me a picture. Put up the picture of Donnie sitting in the airport, staring probably just as he is now, at his laptop, watching. the Michigan Washington game from Terminal A in San Antonio Airport. Donnie, what happened? What happened was my shout out to my roommates, Chica and Will.

Chica hit me up Friday and was like he let me know that he was able to come across some tickets. Him and Bostic are from Houston. Chika currently lives in Sacramento. And he was like, you're trying to go to the game? And obviously, the answer is yes. I looked up the prices of tickets and they were honestly really steep and I was thinking this might not be the smartest

decision to get these tickets last minute because me and Jene are currently planning a baby shower I guess this is a good time the higher learning announced that I'm also planning to be a parent I have a little boy on the way so I was thinking is this smart to buy this ticket and go to Houston talking to Chica. Chica was like, yo, I got a whole bunch of points. I'll hook you up and we'll figure it out later. So shout out to Chica.

He hooked me up. Got me on a flight to Houston Monday morning. The plan was for me to arrive at noon. Game starts at 6.30. I get to ATL Airport with plenty of time.

I see that the flight gets delayed an hour. It's okay. I go to the bar. Just hang out. It got delayed another hour You know Now it's starting to It's like it's pushing it some

But it's okay And then We end up leaving And I'm like okay I'm gonna get here at I think the time I would have been getting there at 4.30 So still close pushing it

But yeah Plenty of time About an hour into the flight I noticed that we've turned around Twice And I'm thinking this is This is not good but, you know, it's not that big a deal.

And then we turn around the third time and I pull up the flight tracker. And I'm like, you know, we're, this isn't good. He's not, the pilot isn't being communicated, but we're not going to Houston right now. We're just circling in the Gulf of Mexico. And the pilot ends up hopping on after about our fourth rotation and is like, we, the Houston weather is,

really bad right now. We're going to have to divert the plane to San Antonio refuel and wait this weather out. I'm sorry, folks. We're going to get you there as soon as possible. A bunch of Michigan fans on my flight groan. I internally grown because honestly, as a flyer,

I kind of, it's weird. I like when people are visibly frustrated on flights and in airports. I don't know what it is. Like when there's a baby on the plane and I can see that everybody is pissed something about that like fuels me. So like that Atlanta airport in you.

That's what that is. It's like I enjoy because I got patience. I got a ton of patience. I'm not going to get as upset as everybody else. Even though this is pushing my patience, I'm trying to make it a city game. So we get to San Antonio and it's not looking good. And then it's getting close to the game time is happening.

I hear from Chica. Chica has made it to Houston flying in from Sacramento. His flight was delayed. some, but it wasn't delayed fully, but he was able to make it to the game. And then that was around the time. You text me like a little bit into the first quarter. And I told you that.

I was like, Donnie, get a rental car. Yeah, it was too late at that point. And what ended up happening was at my, I was sitting at my gate and I noticed the gate next to me. I just started boarding and they were heading to Atlanta. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to go

back home. Because by this point, I'm going to get into Houston. It's probably going to be about midnight. My flight was supposed to be leaving the next morning, so I'm going to have a crazy quick turnaround, or I'm going to get drunk in Houston, and then miss my flight and be super stress. So let me just go back home. And I did that. I watched the game on my laptop and on my phone. By the time I landed in Atlanta and was walking up the plane, Mike Sandor still got that interception, and we officially I was too tired to fully, fully care, which kind of sucks. But the next morning, I woke up feeling good.

And yeah, I'm okay. I've been wearing my class ring around the house like crazy. Just trying to, trying to get the good vibes out of it that I can't. I feel so sorry for you, Donnie. No, you got, man. Let me tell you, so let me, let me tell you guys. Okay, okay, let me just, and then we can get into the big deal of the day. But let me tell you guys what happened here.

And I want to say something here. I want to put this in context for everyone. Michigan is a storied college football franchise or program, should I say. Story, right? Most wins of any college football team ever, program ever. They have the most wins ever. National championships, though, a lot of Michigan's national championships have come in the era of yesteryear.

We're talking about, oh, we're the national champions in 34, 33, 37, 38, 39, all of that stuff, right? The only championship that they've had in the last like 20 some odd years is a shared national championship in 1997. You got Charles Woodson and all those guys. I think they shared it with Nebraska, if I remember correctly. This is a big fucking deal for Michigan football, right? Huge deal.

If you're a Michigan football fan, this is your first solo national championship since Harry Truman was the president. That is a fact. There's a huge deal of your Michigan fan. Donnie misses this. Rachel in the higher learning group texts posts a picture of the confetti falling on her.

What the fuck? Knowing that Donnie missed it on some freak shit. Let me tell you how good of a guy Donnie is. I would have been losing it. Know that Donnie missed it on some, That's what Rachel posted. Look at that. Rachel posted that picture.

It's a good shot. I threw up the horns though because I'm still loyal. With the amazing blue confetti falling on her, I'm like, that is ruthless, man. I threw up the horns. Shout out for the horns. You should have been there. Well, in my defense, no, the ruthless part is. That makes you disrespect.

There were people in burnt orange. I could tell they had bought tickets thinking Texas was going to make it. And they were just like, fuck it. We go where I burn orange. anyway. In my defense, the ruthless part was not going down there and taking that picture, which I did for you, Donnie. The ruthless part was as soon as you texted me the picture in the terminal, I immediately sent it to Van and had a laugh about it. That was the ruthless part. Look at Donnie. Look where Donnie is. But I really did feel bad for you. And I was so excited for you

to have that moment because I knew Michigan was going to win. And I was ready. I was like, here's this past, go have fun. I just, I hated it. In my defense, I was checking up on you. And I was going to give this to you. And so I thought, well, since Donnie can't be here, I might as well capture some content for him. No, I appreciate it.

Because that's the kind of friend I am. All right. Big deal of the day. It's most talked about things. There's a lot of things to talk about. But we're going to get to the end of an era in college football. More college football talking to other side is break. The playoff.

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It's not just about how many games we won and lost, but it's about the legacy and how we went about. We always try to do it the right way. Real quick, you guys know I'm a big LSU fan. You might be wondering why this is leading the show is a gigantic deal in the fabric of college football. I want you guys to think about the fact that one move here throws so many other things into flux,

the stability that was, Nick Saban at Alabama now means there's going to be a run on that job. Other players are going to decommit, other players are going to decommit, leave there, transfer, whatever. Somebody, they have to fill that job and not miss a beat.

So all of this stuff is a big deal if you're a huge college football fan. I am not the biggest Nick Saban fan in the world because obviously he coaches at Alabama and they beat us 13 times, but I will say this. If not for Nick Sabin, the golden age of

LSU football that we've been in three national titles since 2000 appearing in another national championship game where we lost to Nick Saban, it would have never happened. So there's no LSU fan that's being objective that doesn't have a lot of respect for Nick Saban and what he's meant to college football and what he did for us and for the entire sport. So happy trails to Nick Saban. What did you think? It's interesting. I was not shot. And I guess I'm surprised how many people are shocked. I guess to me the writing was kind of on the wall. It is shocking in the sense that Alabama football, as we have known it for 17 years, it has completely changed. I mean, whether you've been a fan or you just became a college football fan, it just seems like when you think of Alabama, you think

of Nick Saban. And that's not to discredit any of the other big coaches that came from Alabama. but that is how they're one and the same. So it's hard to imagine, one, Nick Saban, not in college football, or two, not with Alabama. That is shocking. But the fact that he retired, I'm not that shocked. He's 72 years old, and he's been extremely vocal about not liking the changing landscape of college football. He has referred to it as that, you know, although he might be four players being confident, He has criticized name, image, and likeness. He has referred to it as semi-pro football. I think the way that it's changing is leaving Saban and other coaches like him behind in regards to conference jumping that we're having and the realignment of that and also the expansion of the CFP. I mean, CFP and with the 12 teams. And I just think that he is not liking the way things are moving and the way he is.

has known football for the 50 years that he's been coaching doesn't exist anymore. I mean, bowl games really feel, and it will definitely be true, rain true when they moved to the 12 teams this next year, bowl games are irrelevant. I remember coming up, I will watch all the ball games. Every bowl game to me was interesting. And there weren't even as many. So it's not like what you see now. But now it's like, I only really want to watch the playoffs or the games leading up the week before to the playoffs. It's a totally different thing. And I think that he has become disinterested with it.

I don't think that he wants to compete when it comes to with NIL and what you have to do for recruiting because he comes from a different era. And I just think he thinks his time is done. So to me, the way that he would talk about college football, the writing was on the wall. Well, so this is what I would say. So let's get into the differences specifically. in college football, everything that Rachel just said about the changing landscape of is true.

In case you guys didn't know, the college football players, the big ones and the good ones, have always been compensated in some way, but you couldn't do it outright. Ed O. Bannon and a lot of other people filed a historic lawsuit that wanted players to be able to get paid for their name, image, and likeness. So back in the day, when you would play Coach K basketball, it would be Ed O'Bannon on the team for UCLA, but it would be just like number zero. And so they would use whatever they had to do with him, his likeness, how he looked on there and all of that stuff, and they wouldn't get paid. Couldn't you pay for anything. You're an amateur athlete who could not be compensated, right? They challenged that. And over the course of

years, they got it to go as high as it could go. It was ruled in their favor. Automatically, NIL becomes the law of the land. NIL becomes a law of the land. The amateur athletes, which they were amateur athletes in a system that was generating billions and billions of dollars. now they can be paid for their name, image, and likeness. Now every school gets a collective to manage the NIL opportunities that each athlete will get. So now, not only do you have to recruit a guy and make him believe, or a lady in other sports, and make them believe that the college that they're coming to is the best opportunity for them to develop and maybe give their uncle a job or give him a car on the low or any of that other stuff that was already going on.

Now everything is a bidding more, right? The reality is for a guy like Nick Saban, who was a master recruiter in the old system, the new system threatens him. It threatens him because now it doesn't matter how good you are in somebody's living room. Somebody else can say, yeah, Nick Saban pitched you and said he's going to make you into the best three technique delimement ever, right? But at the same time, we got a million dollars, right? And so I think that that's certainly part of it.

In terms of the college football playoff and all that other stuff, I mean, I think there was an impetus from the college football loving world to get to a more definitive way of proving who the best team was. Like when I was coming up in my youth, everybody played their games. You went to the big six bowls and then they voted on who the best team was. And it ended up being so controversial. We talked about Michigan Split National Championship in 1997. So then it was the BCS where the computers were going to compute.

Who was the best team based on strength and schedule and all that? team still got left out. Then it was like, okay, take the best four teams, throw them in a playoff. Then you get to the point, well, who are the best four teams? Right? Now it's like, four is not enough. Now we're going to go to 12 teams. I guarantee you, even when it's 12 teams, there is going to be an argument between which team is 12 and which team is 13. Anyway, unless you do it specifically in a system, playoff system, all of that stuff like more closer to pro sports, there'll always be something about that. In terms of Nick, I think there's a couple with it. Sure, he doesn't want to compete in this new era, but he's 72 years old,

and he's accomplished all he can accomplish. I think this was a shocking development, but a predictable outcome. And the question is, which way will be able to win in this new era of college football? It's going to be a combination. Oh, by the way, we didn't even talk about the transfer portal. It used to be that if you transfer some other place, you have to sit out for a year. Now you can transfer, play immediately everybody that's on Alabama. Alabama's team now has a 30-day window to transfer because they coach left. Everyone, everyone, the team, the guys that just transferred there, the guys that are signing it, all of them can now transfer for the next 30 days because they're coached left.

So it's just a lot of different things. I think that plus his tenure there, probably he was like, let me go do something else. He has a big future if he wants to do ESPN and all of that stuff too. Oh, is he going to go into broadcasting? Nobody knows. Nobody knows what Nick will do. But if he wants to go into broadcasting. Because he hasn't made a statement yet, right?

It's just been reported. There's been no press conference of him explaining his decision or anything like that. No, I just read it before. No, I read it before. Oh, he did. He did speak about it. Yeah, he did talk about it. He did talk about what he was going to go do, but he did talk about what Alabama was doing and all that stuff.

Yeah. Okay. All right, that's enough. Happy trails. We'll see what happens now. There are a lot of candidates that were out there. A lot of people were saying, Rachel, perhaps Steve Carson's Sarkisian could be. Who knows?

I don't think he would leave. I think especially with the, they're going to the same conference. You got the archmanning behind you. They almost made it. Maybe if they had not done what they did this year, I just can't see him leaving. Like he's in a good place. If he does leave, then something was up. They were going to let him go or something.

That would be my take. But to me, there is no reason for him to leave right now, especially with what you're saying with the transfer portal, you don't know what that team's going to look like when you join. He'd have to make his decision immediately. Otherwise, you're going to come back to a totally different team. The smartest thing to do is stay at Texas. So next.

They ain't taking your coach. A couple of candidates were out there. Dan Lennie, the Caitlin DeGore. I don't think that Jim Harbaugh would take a job in college and think if Jim Harbaugh leaves. He'll go to the NFL. Dan Lanning just announced these players in a fucking fantastic video that he is staying award. Dan Lennon is the head coach of Oregon, young, bright coach that everybody's kind of looking for and looking at. He just, in his video, a great fucking video where he came in and almost made it seem like he was about to announce that he was going to Alabama because that was a speculation.

They told him he was staying. So that motherfucker got them around his finger up there. That's amazing. Maybe somebody from the pros will come in a coach. A lot of coaches, a lot of coaches have been let go. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Hard job following Nick Saban at Alabama.

I think it's the worst job in sports right now. Yeah. I actually could see that. I could see a pro football coach coming down in coaching. Yeah. I mean, the Alabama job is a great job. Following Nick Sabin is the worst job. Alabama job.

Great job. Great job. Maybe the premier job in all of college football probably is. Following Nick Saban, worst job. Worst job. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window?

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Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimfire radio.com. Man, 24, the fucking year the flame continues. Stephen A. Smith went fucking nuclear on Jason Whitlock. If you are not familiar with Jason Whitlock, Jason Whitlock is a black, far-right sports writer. political pundit,

it's been doing this thing for a long time. He always seems to find a way to make black people, blackness, black culture, the enemy and the culprit of America's woes. Jason Whitlock, who I've talked to before,

I had him on the Red Pill. I did an interview with him. And he's actually moved further to the right even during that time. But we argue in the Red Pill, you guys go watch it on YouTube me versus Jason Whitlock, all kinds of things. Jason Whitlock was your garden variety

sports writer for a long time. And then the Don Imas nappy-headed hose situation came. You know, if you guys don't remember this, Don Imas, who was a radio DJ called the Rutgers women's basketball team nappy-headed hose. And he got in trouble for that.

And the counter to that was well, he got that from hip-hop. Hip-hop is responsible for that type of lingo and that type of talk. and Jason Whitlock was one of the people that went around parodying that all over the place made him a big deal with conservative media. He stayed conservative media sensitive. This was not about his for a into conservative media as much as much as it's about,

should I say, the way he comports himself with his other colleagues. He was the most hated black man in sports media, without a doubt. Even when I put him on back in the day, it took a lot of flack from a lot of people that I have a lot of respect for. I put them on today. I don't have any problem with those types of conversations. I think it's interesting to have them, and I think it's interesting to let the audience see them. But most people have taken the tactic of just ignoring Jason Woodlock.

But I guess he went too far with Stephen A. Smith, who can't do that anymore. Whitlock has some things to say about Stephen A. Smith on his show not too long ago. This is what Jason said. Stephen A. Smith is the Kevin Hart of the sports media. Smith is a plan. Disney and ESPN installed Smith at the top of the sports media world because his inadequacies as a journalist make him easy to control. When I listen to Kat Williams talk about Kevin Hart and Steve Harvey,

my mind immediately drifted to Stephen A. Smith's memoir. Smith's story just doesn't add up. So that was with lock. Yeah. I mean, that's more if you got some of it. listen to it. That was Whitlock. And I think that the bridge too far for Stephen A was not just, hey, I don't like what Stephen A does on first tape, but he impugned his journalistic integrity. And honestly, his personal integrity was a direct shot at who Stephen A,

Smith's career and who he is. Yeah. I mean, I think that's what it was. It became, listen, we had Stephen A. Smith on our show. We talked about his book, Straight Shooter. It is a memoir. He is opening up in ways that we haven't seen him before. He's telling personal stories about himself, about his family, about his friends, about his experiences, professionally. And it takes a lot. Van, you've written a book about your life. I've written a book. It's a very vulnerable experience. And it takes a lot of courage to open yourself out there in such a public way and allow people to have their opinions about that. So I can understand why this hits Stephen A. Smith a different way. This isn't Jason Whitlock just talking about, you know, I don't know, his career

or a plant or, you know, picking on black people like Jason Whitlock tends to do. It became very personal. And so for me, if there was a time to lose your shit, not only say you lose your shit because he did it in the best way, but if there's a time to go off on someone and call them out for the hypocrite and disgusting human being that they are, Stephen A. Smith picked the right time to do it. He didn't get all in the weeds, all the other times Jason Whitlock has talked about him or a cogling or colleague

or where he works or black people in general. he didn't get getting all that. He picked to me the perfect time to do it. And as he said, the only time he plans on doing it. I thought it was great. Steve B. Smith on his podcast, it was lengthy. And he brought out a lot of receipts. It was a long time.

It was a lot of time on it. And look, I wouldn't know about spending a long time addressing the matter. I never do that. I'm very concise when I'm talking about things. I get to the point. I get in, I get out. I wouldn't know about spending too long on something. So that's the Stephen A. Smith thing.

Maybe he should try to get like me. But we're going to play a little piece of it. And this was the piece that went viral. Donnie hit it. You betrayed me. Did you tell the folks that? You bitch. Did you tell them?

Your fat piece of shit. Did you tell them that? Got the names. We got Jamel Hill. We got Howard. But Bryant, you want me to bring up the other writers? Can you imagine being Jason Whitlock and pressing play and just watching this, what, 45-minute monologue about what a fat bastard you are?

I just kept being, because he watched it. I just can't imagine pressing play on this and it being about me. But go ahead. Can I tell you what I think? What? I think Jason Whitlock loved this. I think he loved every second of it. Now, that doesn't mean that Stephen A shouldn't have done it.

I actually reached out to Stephen A and said, yeah, get this shit off your chest. But there is a part of this in terms of a guy like Whitlock. there's a part of this that's like the ugly part and the ugly part is that it's probably better off to ignore him. It is. It's probably better off to ignore him. And I have a problem with that. I love getting into those back and forth with people.

I love it. I love addressing every little thing. I do. But it's probably better off to ignore Jason Whitlock. everything that Jason Whitlock said about, excuse me, everything Stephen A. Smith said about Jason Whitlock is backed up by things that actually happened.

If you were around in media when the undefeated was about to get started, you remember how big of a deal it was that there was a cultural mutiny against Whitlock when he was about to start that black vertical because people did not fucking like him. All the other stuff with Stephen A. Smith and the apologies and all the things that Stephen A. Smith went into from the 2015 Deadspin article that exposed the fact that no one wanted to work with Jason Whitlock and all of that stuff.

All of that stuff was known to some people. Now, the interpersonal things between him and Stephen A. Smith might have not been known. But a lot of other stuff was known. It's known that Jason Whitlock for a lot of people in black sports media is a pariah in a very specific way. And he has gone from ESPN to Fox and out of the day. at Fox to the Blades. Whatever, not impugning over there, what they do over there at the blaze is not my

motherfucking cup of tea, but I'm sure some people fucking love it. His relevance now is so diminished compared to where it used to be. Jason Whitlock is going to, the only way he can actually get people talking about

him is to rage bait them. That's absolutely true. I am more of the person who will stay quiet and not necessarily address it unless I have to. I think there's more power in that, which is why I think that this was so powerful. Think about it. If Stephen A. Smith did this every single time Jason Whitlock said anything, we'd just be like, here goes Stephen A. Smith again. But people are listening. People are watching. It didn't matter that he spoke for 45 minutes about it.

People wanted to hear every bit of what he has to say because he doesn't say it. I hate that he had to stoop down to Jason Whitlock's level. But it was absolutely necessary, especially because we're living in the age and we'll get into it in another topic where people are normalizing, lying in public. And that is what he was doing is talking about Stephen A. Smith as a plant

and not respecting the fact that he's a journalist. Some people might be new to Stephen A. Smith and they don't know, they might only know him for first take. They don't know about his history as a journalist and that the hours and time and respect he gained from doing all of that. They don't know that.

They might listen to Jets. Jason Whitlock and think, oh, maybe it is a little bit true. Maybe that does make sense. So it was necessary for Stephen A. Smith to take that back from whatever Jason Whitlock was trying to put out there. But Jason Whitlock is also a man who has nothing to lose. Seeing what he built up to where he was, if you could say the top, in regards to sports journalism, to where he is now, he's a man, as you said, who does this type of stuff

to gain clicks to get conversation like he's doing now, because otherwise he wouldn't. If today he got on his broadcast or whatever he does and talked about Nick Saban retiring, nobody's running to listen to hear what Jason Willock has to say about Nick Saban retiring. They're running to listen to when he says something controversial that is going to ignite some sort of response

from a person who has a much bigger platform and with something to lose than him. That is what his journalistic career has been deduced to or reduced to. So the way that somebody like Jason Whitlock gets somebody to talk about Nick Saban's retirement is that he goes, you know what? You know who's to blame for Nick Saban's retirement? And then goes what? The young, greedy black athlete. And then everybody goes, oh my God, Jason Whitlock is blaming the young, greedy black athlete for Nick Saban.

retirement, how can you do that? And then people watch it. And then the blaze and everybody goes, blah, blah, blah, blah, all of that stuff. I'm not saying that Stephen A. Smith should have done it. And if you're going to do it, that's the way to do it. What Stephen A. Smith did was he insulted him a lot. There were a lot of ad hominem attacks. They're fine. But he also gave substantive reason and historical fact as to why this guy's opinion doesn't matter. Like how he boxed himself out and how desperate he is in doing this. And if you listen to the whole thing and you believe what Stephen A. Smith is saying, then, you know, there's something there. There's something there to you going, if your mind is open. I don't think there are too many people that watch Jason Whitlock on the

blaze that are then going to go and listen to what Stephen A. Smith said and go, okay, well, I think differently about Whitlock now. I think there are a lot of people out there who are probably agnostic about Whitlock in the first place that go, these guys even more of a piece of shit than we thought he was, or people that didn't know who he was because they're not watching what he does on the Blaze and they watch First Take all the time and now have a poorer opinion of him. I think Jason Whitlock's reputation amongst some people is probably

more injured now than it was before. But in terms of what he looks at and what he's been glomming on to for the last X amount of years, I don't think it matters at all. I think he probably likes this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I still couldn't imagine watching this.

And I had no idea about what happened with the undefeated and Jason Whitlock. So this was informative to me Because I know what the undefeated is And now it's Anscape I know that I had no idea

that I know Jason Whitlock What he is now The fact that he was over that Is wild to me And obviously was still problematic Because none of the other journalists That are respected Wanted to work with him

That was new to me You're from him What did I say? Hold up your left hand Oh no, don't make me do it I can't believe I miss this Hold up your left hand Don't make me do it, man

Come on, Rach, just do it for the people Hold up, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, let's see it. Let's see it. What's going on, Rach. Oh, I've never seen you like this before. I've never seen you like this before. What's happening, Rach? Are things okay?

It's kind of symbolic. This is me. I'm the middle finger right now, my life. This is me. No, I broke by now. I hit it against something and then it just kept breaking and break it. And I'm like, man, I was in Houston. I couldn't get.

I had an appointment. Let's put it this way. The day things happened, I had a Nell appointment that day. So obviously I missed it. So I'm getting it done Saturday. So I will have new nails by Monday. But man, you know, I'm a hand talker, so I was hoping you wouldn't see it. I should have been doing my hands like this, and maybe you wouldn't have seen anything.

Jason Willock is, in my opinion, now, sincerely the worst type of public figure. Like the worst type of public figure. The reason why I say that is because I don't have a problem disagreeing with someone. If I believe that the substance of the disagreement is two things. One, authentic and two, constructive. You really believe what you say. And what you're saying is constructive, then I have no problem disagreeing with you,

talking to you and building to something better or building to the most precious thing that we have in civilized society, which is the agreement to disagree or compromise or anything like that. I love having those conversations. But when you fall into your character, when you play to your crowd and your ability to synthesize information is affected by that, yet you keep going back and back and back and back and back to that, that's the worst type of public figure to have. And that exists on the left.

It exists on the right. But particularly when the group of people that you are using as the mascot or the whipping boys and girls, to further your career are as injured historically, economically, socially, and perceptually as black people are. When you're beating up on us to do your entire thing, I think there's a special place in hell for you. So there's nothing about Jason Whitlock that I give any space to. But, you know, I do say that this only helped him. it did. For the week.

For the week. Next week. Next week. No. But I do disagree with you about, and we've talked about this, maybe not on mic, but off mic, about giving people like Jason Whitlock a platform. You know, because we talked about it because it's like, should it can to someone's be here? Should those type of polarizing, not even just polarizing, just, I'm losing the word,

but it's worse than polarizing. Bad actors. Yeah, those type of figures be on our platform higher learning. I'm not against debate. I'm not against having controversial figures on. We've promised this audience that we would have that. And we have. But I believe in productive conversation where even if I don't agree with you, like Camille, where is he, by the way.

He's around doing his thing. Camel Foster. I mean, not as much I should, but Camel Foster's great. Like someone like that. We are on opposite ends. Do not agree at all. But it makes sense. I don't agree with you.

I don't believe in what you're saying. I might think it's problematic. But at the end of the day, there can still be a respect for that person. If there can't be that or a conversation where it's like, huh, okay, I see your argument, but I don't believe it. then I don't want to have that conversation on the, it's one thing off mic, I don't want to have that conversation and bring that to an audience. That's where I, and to me, that's a Jason Whitlock. They're going to lie. It's not going to be fair. It's not going to be a productive conversation. They're going to, if the intention and the purpose is to bait you for clicks and likes and the

attention so they can have some type of recognition for the week, then I don't want you to use me and my platform to do that. That is why I could never have a Jason Whitlock on this podcast. Yeah, you're making 100% sense. Whitlock right now, even though I might have said that this earlier, probably is a bridge too far right now. I was just saying, I meant more like a type, like a fireman type. Let me tell you what I think.

If I'm going to make a counter argument, my kind of argument would be this. There's value in devaluing something. Sure. when the thing that you're devaluing is back. So if we have a conversation with Larry Elder on this podcast, who is a bad actor really in the same way. Now, he was relevant because he was running for president.

So let's make sure that we make a distinction there. He was relevant in a different way than the rest of these guys because he was actually seeking the highest office in the land and for us to interview him, interviewing a presidential candidate, and whatever skeleton of one was still walking around when he came on higher learning. It's kind of a different thing.

But these people have throngs of people that think they're the smartest people in the world, that think all the things that they're saying are rooted in some concrete fact. Ben Shapiro has these things. Facts don't, is the same facts, don't care about your feelings. He didn't invent that saying, but he says it all the time. Well, a lot of times the quote-unquote facts

that Ben Shapiro and the rest of these people have aren't facts at all. They're taking statistics, misconstruing them, they're forgetting about other statistics. They're not using the correct cultural synthesis to analyze some of these issues. They are out of the know and either they don't know it or they don't talk about it because they're never challenged on it. So if there's one thing, I'm not saying that this is, you know, this exists across the special

for everyone. But if there's one advantage to talking to someone like that is the fact that you get to prove that your ideas are better. Your ideas are better than them. It doesn't matter who you prove it to. And I like to fight. Everybody knows. It doesn't matter who you prove it to.

You get to prove that your ideas are better. You get to say, you keep, I've heard you say that everywhere and that's not true. And then you get to ask them, hey, well, prove me wrong. prove me wrong. This is what I believe. Prove me wrong. And to be honest with you, like airing that out, disinfecting it in the public square is something that I like.

Now, I will say in this clout heavy era that we are in right now, you have got to be selective about that. And I agree with you on that because there are some people that will even take the same shit that you said, cut it up, splice it up, take you out the bitch, put a fucking MAGA hat on you using AI and be like, ah, look how I served this.

but I have conversations like this with people all the time and not only do I enjoy it because I'm just adversarial and confrontational that way but I also just think it makes you a little sharper and makes you a little bit dead but I get it I understand we can't platform everybody on this bitch but we will have some I guess some more people and your point about Camel is well taken too because there are people that are genuine in their wrongness

I love it. Right. Did you watch Descans and Nikki Haley last night? I'm going to be very honest with you. I recorded it and for some reason it didn't record. So I had to catch the highlights. You ever see that movie Fallen?

I'm serious. You ever see that movie Fallin? Not Fallin. Hey, Donnie, what's the movie? Fallin is Denzel Washington. What's the movie with Matthew McConaughey and his dad is like, they don't want you to believe

that they're actually hunting demons. Like they say that they're hunting demons. It's Matthew McConaughey and Will Paxson. And you never saw this? So the movie is this. Will Paxson is Matthew McConaughey's dad, right? And a long time ago, he flipped out

and said that he saw demons and people and that he was killing the demons. he could see people that they were demons and he had to kill them and the cops were on his trail they were talking to Matthew McConaughey as an older person but they didn't know they had been told by God to

frailty! Friety is the movie, Ashley. Frileton. I've never heard of this in my life. Oh, it's dope. So this is what happens in frailty. It sounds interesting. I kind of want to see it. Okay, go ahead. Whenever the demon killers walk by

like a surveillance camera tape or something, the tape messes up. Because God is protected. So whenever they walk by like a surveillance camera tape, you can't see them the tape messes up. You know what happened? Don't tell me. I kind of want to see it now.

Oh God. God. I'm watching that. Did she? It was, did you watch the whole thing? I watched the whole thing. I actually really wanted to say.

see it. I was very curious. I was going to wake up this morning and have my cup of coffee and watch this debate. And for some reason, it didn't record. But, you know, God's looking out for me. We're not saying on it too long because neither one of these people are going to be the nominee. And everything that's going on over there on the right right now is kind of boring. You know, Trump. It's predictable. Yeah. Yeah. I will say this, though. He fucked her up last night. De Santas? I was very surprised.

Yeah, I was very surprised. I was very surprised. What was your favorite part? Well, there was really no favorite part. What ended up happening was in a binary between the two of them. They are both governors of states. Yes. South Carolina has a much different demographic makeup, demographic makeup,

than Florida does. so when he's touting things that Florida has going right for itself there are these major major urban hubs in Florida that make Florida a little bit different than South Carolina right you got Miami you got Tampa you got Jacksonville you got Orlando

and these places are a little bit more diverse and a little bit more like economically viable than places in South Carolina. And so on a lot of different issues, they're standing up there talking and he goes, that's why we're ranked this and this, and that's why you're ranked this and that. That's why we're ranked here.

That's why we have this and you guys have that. South Carolina is a totally different state to govern than Florida. But when it's just between them, the only thing that she kept coming back to was how poorly he's run his campaign. And even at the end of it, when they were asked to say something nice about each other, she said he was a good governor.

And the only thing he was really trying to prove was that he is a good governor and a better governor than her, and therefore he would be a better president than her. Now, they can't really be each other up too much because they really have a lot of the same views on things. They're both macrocultists to the degree that they can admit

that. So it was just who's more MAGA, who's more conservative, who's more corporate. It's really kind of useless. And it wasn't even that fun with Vivergwama Swami not there. They should have had them there just to spice things up. Your guy. You got to slide that in there. I don't know. I was kind of looking forward to watching it. So, but, you know, I guess it worked out in the best way. The question is this. This is the question. Forget about. them on the other side. I'll just ask you it's a basic question here. Trump's town hall. I'm done with Trump.

You guys, I didn't really watch it that much. I know that Trump's been going crazy saying that he can have people kill whenever he wants. There's nothing that Trump could do. Yeah, what's happening in the courts is more interesting than that town hall. Right, which, by the way, Trump being taken off the ballot is going to make its way to the Supreme Court. Interesting.

Yeah. When the other court rules there, no secret. It's going to do what he, they want them to do. All right, look, question about you. Question, just vague question. I've been taking some heat on the L-Twittosphere. Why? For talking about the way the Democrats are messaging and the campaigning that's going on. Are you in any fear right now that Donald Trump will be president in 2024?

No. Maybe I will feel different after the primary, but right now, no. Because here's the thing. there will be people in the primaries that vote for DeSantis and Nikki Haley and I need to see how people are talking once Trump is the one, the Republican presidential candidate. Then I want to see what the narrative is. Then I want to see how people are talking. So right now, I'm not worried. But I do get worried. I mean, I saw the clip today with Charlemagne on Abby Phillips show. And I just don't think that type of. saying that is helps defeat Trump in any way. And I'm not telling. Well, I don't.

Can we can you play the clip, Donnie? We all can get burned, you know, by politicians. Because when I say endorsing like, you know, I put my name and my reputation on the line with my listeners. And when my listeners feel like he didn't deliver, they come back to me. And they say, hey, man, you're the one who told us to vote for, you know, Joe Biden. You're the one who told us to vote for Kamala Harris. So, you know, I care about my listeners and what my listeners think, but I do want to say that, you know,

I think President Biden historically has been a lack of a better word, a shi-elected official. But, you know, Donald Trump is the end of democracy as we know it. So you'd vote for Biden again? I'm not saying either or, but I think, you know, since y'all ask answers, because that's what y'all do on CNN. You like to ask answers? Like you asked, what I say is you asked if Donald Trump was black,

you know, would he get locked up? You know the answer to that. But I mean, I don't know the, so you are going to vote for Joe Biden? I think it's simple and plain. Like, you know, if you, Donald Trump is the end of democracy, we know it. I mean, I don't know what to tell people.

Okay. Talk about. So, he wouldn't say outright who he was voting for. To me, I understand how frustrating he is, and we dealt with this the last election, to where, and we've talked about a performance podcast, you're voting because you're picking the lesser of two evils. And it's frustrating that you're not excited about the candidate

or you don't believe that the candidate who you might have to vote for is actually going to do something to move the needle towards the issues that you're passionate about or even the issues that they ran on. I understand that frustration. But the other side of it, as he said is the end of democracy. As he sits in a courtroom and tries to, have his attorneys argue for immunity so he can do whatever he wants. The writing is on the wall that he is trying to create this dictatorship.

And we know he'll be good on it because of what happened on January 6th. I think that we have to, whether it pains you or not, emphatically say, I'm not doing this, and this is exactly what I'm doing and how I'm voting. You can say that you're displeased. You can say that you're going to, you want to demand more. when he's in office, you can say that you're going to hold his feet to the fire. You can say that you're going to be critical of him and what he does. But it does not help because what I feel like it makes people become disinterested in voting at all.

And so while they may not vote for Trump, they'll also not vote for Biden, which is a vote for Trump. And I just don't, I just feel like that type of talk is bad, even if it is what you believe. And it's not fair. It's not fair for me to be able to say that. He should be able to go on there and say exactly how he feels. But that's not where we are right now when it comes to the political landscape of 2024. So the intentionality of it is, I think, what you're talking about. If the intention of someone is to anyone, okay, if the intention of Charlemagne is to stop Donald Trump for being president,

then you would think that he would. wouldn't say anything that would help Donald Trump to compress it. And honestly, saying I regret endorsing Joe Biden definitely helps Donald Trump to compressive. There's no way to, there's no way around it. Me and I've talked about this before. But it's about the intentionality of it. It's about what your intention is. And I think everybody should ask themselves this question, like, what is your intention? Is your intention to be honest about how you feel? Or if your intention is to be honest about how you feel, then you're going to speak about things the way you actually feel, right? You're going to talk the way, in the way that you actually believe.

You're going to say what you think. If your intention is to be honest. Now, if your attention is to stop Donald Trump, that's a different thing, right? My intention isn't to stop Donald Trump. I don't like Donald Trump. I think Donald Trump is bad for the country. I think there are several things that worry me about a Donald Trump presidency. But let me tell you why I can't have intentions that are specific in stopping him or stopping any political actor, right? I can't have that specific intention anymore because it's not incentivized in any way. And it's not.

It's just not. It's not incentivized in any way. the only way to mean that political action is incentivized is not in stopping something but in what you get. Now, I have to be crystal clear here. I'm not voting for Donald Trump. I will not vote for Donald Trump. And then whoever's on the other side of the ballot against Donald Trump is who I'm voting for. In California, that's less important.

That's less important. But let's say I was in a state like Georgia or Nevada or. or Arizona. I might feel differently about this. I might feel differently about what it means. But right now, for him and for other people, we're talking about

how long do we have to continue to exist in a political survival matrix? Like, how long does it have to be that we can't say this thing or we can't say that thing or we can't do this or we can't do that because it empowers the other side.

Having everything you say be held up to, that's ideological slavery in a way. Okay. If you don't want to die, you have to serve this master. And not just serve, I'm talking about like, you have to serve this master. You have to say, hey, I don't regret endorsing this guy. I don't regret having this guy around.

I don't regret doing any of this because if not, I die. That to me is the same thing as if I run off this plantation, they'll catch me and kill him. At a certain point to me, I wouldn't have gone about it that way. I wouldn't have said it that way. Like, I have to be a little bit more nimble with my words. Saying you regret endorsing him in the first place is saying, it's almost like saying he shouldn't have been president, right? But I will say this, whether or not, if you feel that way, right?

If you feel that way, then I don't see why you wouldn't say it, because let's look at things. Let's look at specifically who we're talking about and why we told them to vote for Joe Biden. Like we told people to vote for Joe Biden because of things that Joe Biden ran on, specifically when it comes to black people that weren't delivered. Now, where they weren't delivered because the administration did not want to deliver them? Let's be honest. No, that's not the case. But the reality is a lot of the people that you might be talking to either don't care to have or don't have.

I'm not saying, no, anyone's stupid. I'm saying that people live real lives and they get information from people like him and like us. They don't care to have or they don't have the political sophistication. to understand all the machinations in this. They just want to know, hey, a guy whose opinion that I trust told me to vote for this guy, did it work like it was supposed to work? Did it go like he was supposed to go? There are two ways to combat that without me being hyper-provost on this.

One is to educate those people on what has worked or why it didn't work, right? That is the job of the administration. That's what I'm talking about. That to me is the part that's the job of the administration. It's not my job, right? After I've told somebody to vote for you, then to come back and tell them why you didn't do what you said you were going to do, I'm not a surrogate for you.

I don't work for you. It's the job of people that are out there. Even the message that to me, right? Even a message that to me. It's their job to do that. This is what we're going to do. This is how it didn't happen all of that. that stuff. It's their job to do it. It's their job. And I keep telling people, it's their job to make

these cases. So if somebody, Charlemagne or anybody else is out there going, look, I told a lot of people to vote for this motherfucker and then he didn't do what he said he was going to do. And now these people are looking at me crazy. Like, I would probably find a way around that. I probably would. But that's the difference between me and Shar. But I probably would find a way around that. Without saying, I regret endorsing Joe Biden because that headline, has so much sizzle, that headline has so much sizzled that that's Fox News porn. That's Bright, Bark, porn. That's News, Max, porn.

And you got to think, I'm just saying, you got to think about the way that headline is going to be interpreted, right? I will. But at the same time, those are real feelings. And the question is, when do we get to say how we feel? Go ahead. After 20, after November 20. 24. I'm sorry. That's just how it is. When you are so right about that headline and when he said it, I thought, that is the most selfish thing that you just did. I'm sorry. That was a self-serving comment.

People are coming on to you for saying that you endorse Biden and your response is, everybody's coming at me for what he did. I don't want to have to deal with all of this. me, I all about, it's not about that. And to me, I think he got caught up in the, I don't want to have to explain myself. People are always coming at me for, because I'm the one who endorsed him. It's not about you. It's bigger than that. And I feel like there was a way to say it, to be honest about his frustrations with the administration, but not given outright. I regret voting for him or say, or refuse to say who you're voting for. Because it just adds fuel to the fire for the other side.

And to me, that whole spiel was very self-centereding. I get it. I'll give you a personal example. Like, whenever I've come on here and apologize, right? The reason why I've apologized, it takes me a while to get to an apology because, you know, I get injured. I'm insecure. I have daddy issues.

The entire thing, you know, people telling me all this, this is tough. It's fine. But all those things are true. But I care what the public thinks about me. Like everything I talked about in the last podcast was because, like, when you're trying to help, like, I care that there's a level of public trust that I have with people. Because I really just want everybody to do good. I want everybody to feel better.

Like, you know, I'm here in Baton Rouge. And, like, every time the more I come here, the more I'm back in Baton Rouge, the weirder I'm going to be on the podcast because as long as I'm in L.A., I can think and talk about things in the abstract. Right? I do work in L.A.

I'm around places in L.A., but I see it and I come back. When I'm here and I'm here, I'm back in it. I'm seeing it. I'm around it. I'm feeling it. I'm touching it.

You know, we're talking a day later on, having dinner with the mayor. What can we do? How can we change? Like, for me, a lot of those people, what they think of me and how they relate and react to me, I care.

I care about it. So if there's something that I need to say or something that I need to do to make sure that they have trust in me, then I would probably do that. What I would say, what I have said,

is that if you care about the people, right, you have to walk a line. And we all have to walk this line. Walk this line between having them trust you and then giving them the information that you feel like it's best for you. Right? Like having them trust you is important.

It's very important that the listeners of the Breakfast Club trust Charlemagne and trust, number one, that he'll always be honest with him. That's the most important trust. The most important trust is not that he'll tell them what they want to hear, but that he'll always be honest with him.

That's the most important trust and that's the trust that most politicians should try to foster with their constituencies. That's the first thing, that he'll always be honest with him. That's the most important trust. us. But secondly, there does need to be some thought in there somewhere about what's the

worst that can happen to them. And you have to in some way walk that line. But it can't be all on the other side of I'm just going to do what Joe Biden and the corporate Democrats want me to do so that I'm taking care of people. Because if we're like that, we're not free. If we're like that, we're not free. Maybe we're, maybe he's supposed to say that or anybody else supposed to say that or I'm supposed to say that so that we can have a conversation about how we do it right. But I'm sorry,

man, just to be honest with you, the fucking Jim Clyburn, Cedric Richmond, black corporate Democrat way of doing this, it's not good enough anymore. It's really not. It's not good enough anymore.

And they've got to feel a little bit uncomfortable. Unfortunately, it's becoming not good enough anymore at a time when the threat is even higher. I'm telling you guys right now, I will never, unambiguously, unambiguously, I'm not vote for Donald Trump. A vote for Donald Trump is a vote to me

for the dismantling of the little bit of American function that we have with. It's dismantling the structures that have never really worked for black people in a, in a holistic way, but at least they exist a little bit. Trump, to me, is the final death blow.

To me, an existential threat to any hope of the future of the country. I believe it that strongly. So that belief to me, that belief to me anchors how I speak about Donald Trump. But I still believe the Democrats have to do better. Our elected officials have to do better. They have to talk to plainer and they have to be real everybody. But I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. We talk about it. And people feel the way that they feel.

I'm telling you guys, there are a lot more people disenchanted behind the scenes than you think that they're are. I know. That's what I, that to me is the biggest issue. And comments like that fuel the fire because you know what he sounded like disenchanted. And he won't say who he's voting for. So people like that would be like, he's probably not voting for anybody. And that's a problem. He kind of said it at the end.

But no, like, he sounded disinterested. Like, I get what you mean. It's a fair criticism. We'll have it on the show. We can, like, we can talk about it. It's a, it's a fair criticism. It's a more than fair criticism, Rachel.

More than fair criticism. Let's before we get to Kassanette and little nonsense, what specifically scares you the most about a Trump presidency? I think what scares me the most is that he'll have no rules. what scares me the most is the way he is going to manipulate things to do whatever he wants to reign as a fascist. I think look at what he did with January 6th and I feel like somebody in Trump, just as I said earlier, the writing to me is on the wall that he is going to try to do everything in his

power to do whatever he wants. And in turn, that will hurt obviously the black community and it will incite a civil war. I believe it's going to give rise to racist. I believe it's going to, well, mainly just racist. Racism, hate, division. And I feel like it's going to be the complete fault. I feel like it's going to hurt us in a foreign way. In a foreign way.

Yes. Internationally as well, I just think it is the complete beginning of the end if he takes office in January. And just America, and maybe some people already say it, as we know, it just won't look like this. And we will all suffer in the end. That's how I look at it. I just look at it as I think also it'll hit everything, right? We've already seen what he's done with the Supreme Court.

We've already seen what he's done with Congress. Rights will be continued to be stripped away. And Trump isn't a person who stands for anything except for himself. So I think that everything that will become in place would be self-serving to the things that he wants. and will benefit him, not even people who look like him, just him specifically. And I don't want to live in a world where we go way back to what things look like before. That's my fear. Well, say to, I think everything that you're saying is true.

And look, you have a job to do in terms of speaking about this and talking about this stuff in a way that's, But it's real to us. At the same time, keeping in our sites like what it's already costs us. You know, it already cost us row. So many other things that are out there that's already cost us. I can't think of one thing that won't get worse. Honestly, I can't think of one thing that won't get worse. Man, I just wish.

I like even think about like, would we even have the opportunity to have a platform like this? I just be honest with you I just wish man and this is going to sound so crazy and so childish I just wish there was a hero on the left I just wish there was somebody that is of all the times

that that figure was needed of all the times that it was that greatness called upon somebody to step up and stand in the gap and message to people and rally to people

You know, the left has a shaky and weak coalition that is so diverse that it fights as much within itself than it does with the right. It's a very precarious thing, you know, just somebody that people can get behind right now. Maybe social media has made that impossible, but it's just important. And so I think a lot of people, what a lot of people are being critical, I think there's two things. There's a eat what you got crowd. Hey, this is the meal. You got to eat it or you're going to starve. And there's other people that's like, I've been eating shit for too long. You have to be better and serving something different. We are where we are. We'll continue to have this conversation and talk about how we should be having this conversation and the best way to do it.

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to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Before we got out of here, Lil Nasix is back. All right, he doesn't get me fuck. Okay. Kassanat is mad at him.

I don't know if you saw it. Did you see Lil Nasex? He's out there. But what's happening? What's the background? He's got a new image. Is it that he is gospel now? Or is it that?

No, no, no, no. No, no. So he's trolling the gospel community. Like, he put out this video or this picture. He's got. Pull up the picture. Montereau. Pull up the picture with Lil Nas X so that Rachel can see it with him.

He's on the cross. He's on the cross. He's crucified. I saw that. But I. Okay, so we did see. I don't know why I thought for some reason he was. coming up with gospel music.

Like I thought he was changing. I did not realize he was mocking. I just kind of like, okay, Lilazax, I'm going to pay attention. He posts, he's trodman. He's trobe. He posted a letter. He was doing gospel. Got me.

He posted a letter like he had been admitted to Liberty University. And it was signed by Jerry Fall with a whole line. What? Who what? Yeah. I did not see this. Yeah, he's troving. He's being a scamp.

He's scamping. it up. He's scamping it up. So he's facing a little bit of backlash. Mocking for Shannon. He and Jesus Christ in the cover for his new single, Jay Christ is the new single. We don't know where this is going to go.

Kaisanat says he hates Little Nise X. If you guys don't know who Kaysanat is, he is the biggest Twitch streamer in the entire world. Actually, one of the most famous people around right now, specifically for a specific demographic. And Kaisenat's pissed off at Little Nize X, as are a lot of people. Donnie

sound from cop no oh my fuck that yo no nice x you could eat my whole dick i hate that nigga bro now that's he just puffed in my head bro that nigga bro no no what he did my mother bro god gonna handle you in the right way i didn't even talk about that yet bro but look god don't handle you bro and you're no bro what he did no bro god gonna handle that nigga real shit what did he do nah bro i'm maybe going to explain it bro he's extremely disrespectful bro he disrespect okay tell me how he disrespected because uh bro you can't be on that bad time i'm just sitting in the calling out on bad Thomas. Go on his page, bro.

Hey, yo. He disrespect God himself. That's, that's, that's Christianity. Like Christianity. Yes, he just spent the whole culture, he was mocking, he was mocking it. Yes, mocking. Make a little dollars like to eat my.

Is that how his show always is? I'm old. Like, I have a headache. He played, he plays video games, but Kassanetis, he's, it's a pretty remarkable story. He plays video games. People come on and he dance. It's normally a very fun thing.

We talked about the whole jail thing, that was controversial and all of that. Um, I don't even talk that much about, I don't know too much about Kai's personal life and all that stuff. I don't really talk too much about his response to it. I think the response is not out of step with how most people respond to Lil Nas X and how, right frankly, we responded to the video

where he was down there would say, and I think it was called me by your name, or call me by my name or whatever the name of the song was. It was Montero. Montero, Montero is the name of the song. So I think that's, the way a lot of people respond to. How do you respond to this latest salvo from him? I'm kind of, I thought he was doing gospel music. I clearly don't know what's going on.

I did not realize we were being trolled. I also haven't delved into it. I just looked at the headlines and I was like, oh, okay, I guess he's changing up and going into a new genre. And I'm not wild for thinking that Kanye West, who held church service every Sunday. It's not wild for me to think that Lil Nasex would do something like this and that people would get behind it because they sure were praising God and going to church and trying to get to church service with Kanye West. He was nominated for gospel albums for goodness sake. So I thought Lil Nas X is somebody who continues to reinvent himself and I just thought that this was another reinvention. So how do I feel about it? Well, at the moment, I'm shocked that he's not really bringing us the gospel

out of it. You know, I'm going to take Kai out of it because I think, like I said, I think Kai represents a lot of people's feelings on this, their rage. And a lot of ways, this is like no different than what we talked about earlier with Jason with like the rage baiting and stuff like that. I think it's a little different. I think it's kind of the same thing. I'm not that not that much different. But I do think this stuff. And I've thought a lot about this since we talked about this last. So what reason would little nice X have to love God? Seriously. To love God? Yeah. So I want you to think about this. So I'm born. I'm a little baby, right? And I'm walking around as a little baby. And there are two things that get implanted in my head.

That my parents love me and that God loves me. And that God, God, God, This all-powerful, all-seeing, all-feeling, all-controlling, force in the universe has this everlasting and hyper-abunded love for me. And that love can carry me and propel me through any challenge that I face in my life. It doesn't matter what you're facing in your life because the most powerful thing in the entire universe loves you endlessly. and that love is so absolutely pure that the lowest you get it's still there for you and everybody around me reinforced that how much I was loved by God how much I was cherished by God how precious

God looked at me how precious God felt that I was that was that was that was a significant part in my upbringing of the confidence that I had of the way I looked at the world of the way I treated other people because I'm like God probably loves those people he does love those people in the same way right what if that was reversed what if your entire life when when you first started to walk and you first started to breathe and you first started to know who you are what if that was, no thank you. Thank you. What if that narrative was that God hates you?

What if all of that was that God hates you? What if you were taught from the time that you understood what it meant to like love God or be around God or fellowship with God or fellowship with other people that believe in God? What if everybody in your house, in your church, in your neighborhood were telling you that specifically because of how you are and something that you cannot control the change, that this being all seen all powerful, all knowing, that that being hated you, that you were an abomination to that being, that you were a blight on the humanity that being created. not only would you resent people, but you would resent the being. You would say, well, why would you create me this way just so you can hate me? Like, why am I created just to be this pariah, this thing that walks around on the earth so that everybody can hate me? Was I made just so somebody could have something to hate and hiss at?

And then if you get to a point where you take your power back or you're powerful, all of those people that told you for so long that the way that you were was wrong and that it was against the holy fabric of the universe, you would look at them like, fuck you. Like you told me I wasn't shit. You told me I was the lowest. You told me I was this. You told me I was that.

I made it out of it. And now I'm going to take your hate and your anger. and turn it inward on you. I'm going to make you feel like you made me feel. I'm going to take all of that stuff that I overcame. All the times I put the knife down, all the times I put the gun down, all the time I put the pills down,

all the time I deal all of that. And I'm going to turn that back on you. And you know what? You deserve it. And I think they do deserve it. I think Christianity deserves to get kicked in their ass for the way that they made these people feel. I do.

I think the compassion that they talk about and the light and the love that they talked about is not being shown in the way that it should be shown. And I actually think that I would, I put myself, I centered myself and my own relationship with God and how I view God

and how I look at God before I put the feelings of so many other people when we were dealing with that issue. I see somebody disrespect God and I go wrong, that's wrong. I've been taught that that thing loves me, that God loves me. When I say that thing,

I'm making God an entity. I'm not saying I don't believe in and love God. I'm saying I've been told that. And what does it mean for you to disrespect the one thing that kept me going? But that's my life. He lived the other life. And so when I loot at it now, I think it's an opportunity. Kassanat is a kid.

He's talking in the way this kid. If I wanted to get into Kassanat being a hypocrite or so many other people being a hypocrite, we could get into that. I think this is an opportunity. And it's always an opportunity for, Christianity and organized religion, the standard setters and the standard bearers for love, what they're supposed to be, what they're tasked to be, to actually demonstrate some love and demonstrate some understanding and demonstrate some of that stuff. And until they're willing to do that, until they're willing to do that, I don't care that their church and that their foundations, that their destructions are disrespectful.

I don't care that they're disrespecting. Until they're willing to love, until they're willing to do that, I'm sick of the fake shit. A lot of this shit is fake shit. It's fake. You don't love God. You don't love Jesus. You don't love any of that stuff. You don't love it.

You're into a ritual. And that ritual tells you when to be offended. Because if you really love somebody, I'm ranting again. I'm sorry. I'm just saying, I looked at this and I saw everybody get mad. And now I'm like, serves you're right. Do something. Do something.

And the people that are doing something, make yourself seen. Make yourself known. Put it out there. Do something. I'm not into the devil. And I bind it. But I also bind fake, pious people. Because you're doing more harm than good.

I mean, very well said. I just, all these people are upset and outraged. And I was just trying to press play. I was so on the loop. Let's go! Before we leave, Rachel, you're coming out with us this weekend? We're hitting the town.

Are you? What's going on? Man, Nina, since when are you hit? Since when are you hitting the town? I got it. We got a new crew, man. You are not a hit the town person.

Man, we've been everywhere. We went to the Friday night vibes party. Went to a Laker game. We went to a shout out to Ava Duvonne. Man, we went to the party on the Ava Duvonnei. I've already looked. I've seen so many people posting that. How'd you watch the game? How'd I watch what game?

Championship game and go to her party. Okay. Excuse me. The game was over by the time we left. So you get off. Okay. I love it. The game was over by the time we left. The game, the game started at four. Got there like 839. Samuel Jackson, David O' Yellowwell, Avedue, Renee. Like, everybody was a club. court, Cord Jefferson, my friend,

Corey Jefferson, everybody was up in there. I'm like, I was sad that you didn't get a chance to come, you should have been in. I mean, I was out of town

otherwise I would have been there. Okay. Maybe. Take 10 caps off but do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathen, Jr. And I'm Rachel and Lindsay.

Bye, guys.