Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Nicki Minaj vs the CDC and Wellness with Devi Brown

Episode Date: September 17, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay lament the end of days as Nicki Minaj and the barbs take on the Center for Disease Control (4:02), then balance things out with some positivity as author and host of the Dropping Gems podcast Devi Brown stopped by to give some steps towards true healing (18:25). Oh yeah, and Diddy owes Jermaine Dupri an apology (51:11).  Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay  Guest: Devi Brown Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Howe Learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen. And it's me, Rachel Lynn Lansing. Rachel, put the junior on. Van Lathen, Jr. I'm sorry. You're right.

It's me, Van Lathen, Jr. I'm sorry, my smoothie just attacked me again. I hope you got a freeze frame of that. Do you ever get that when your food comes back and attacks you again? That's called acid reflux. Oh, is that what that is? happens to me a lot. It burns, right?

It comes up. It doesn't burn. It doesn't burn. It doesn't burn. Is it acid reflex or reflux? Sometimes if I drink something cold, when you drink something cold, do you sometimes get the cold feeling going back up your esophagus? No. That's not normal.

Hey, Donnie or Donnie and Trudy, when y'all drink something cold, like let's say y'all drink a cold drink. do y'all ever get the feeling of cold going back up like your your esophagus and stuff do you ever get that just down or brain free it goes down but it doesn't do you don't feel it ever coming back up like it gets down there but it comes back up i don't have it like get down there and come back up but it will like stop and just hesitate where it's at for a little bit just be cold be cold no nobody's comes back up which is acid reflux But it doesn't burn, it doesn't burn. Sometimes it burns.

Sometimes it burns if I eat the wrong stuff, you know? Mine is stress-induced. When I was taking the bar the first day, I developed acid reflux. And it continued until I got my results for the bar. How many times did you take from you to pass the bar? One and done, baby. So let me tell you something. I know niggas that failed that bitch.

So it's like these guys, you talk to them and they're all smart and stuff. and I knew a dude who just couldn't fucking do the bar. It was like three strikes and you're out. His firm had to, because I didn't know that those firms hire you. Before. Before. Yeah. And then you take the bar and it's like a black eye to the firm if you don't pass the bar.

And then you don't pass it one time and they're like, all right. All right now. That's exactly. You know what I mean? You're all right now. Okay. If you don't pass it that second. time, sometimes they'll kick your ass out to be done.

But this dude I knew, he got a third crack at it because he came, he went to a really good law school. And then he failed again. Because, well, think about it. You can't practice. They have to let you go. You have to be licensed in the state to be able to practice. So there's only so much that you can do. You become like a paralegal.

So they're paying you all this money And if your friend came from a great law school They were paying him great money And then you can't pass So they have to cut their losses But can't you just keep you on until you pass Well they might have They could but they'd have to reduce your rate

And you wouldn't be an attorney You know they can't bill They can't bill you as a lawyer So you get paralegal Yeah, you're not one But that's I just think it's so flawed Because it's like you put all this money in three years, sometimes more of schooling

because you cannot pass the test, it's like it's all out the window. But you've learned all the skills that everyone else has. Yeah, well, I feel like they should make you do the test first and then hire you after the test. Some may. They don't know that you don't be able to pass the test.

Well, they assume that you got into a good law school. You survived three years. You had good grades. Surely you can pass the test. That's how they think about. Think of it. Niggas fail. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

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Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfair Radio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

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Did you have that in your fucking 2021 bingo cart? No, I didn't. But I think I threw that card out in 2020. Yeah. In many ways, 2021 has been a shit show on par with 2020. It's not funny, but my gosh, it has. So, uh, Let's get right into it.

We talked about it a little bit because we responded to it in real time, Nikki Minaj and the whole COVID cousin's ballgate. It's so funny. Nikki Minaj fired off a series of tweets. You guys all know now when she was talking about vaccine hesitancy. She told a story about a cousin that she had in Trinidad. Apparently this cousin was going to get married. But then, you know, the friend took the vaccine.

The cousin's friend, I think it was. It was the cousin. It was the cousin. It's a cousin's friend. The cousin's friend. The cousin's friend was about to get married. And it was about to go down. It was happy.

Everybody was happy. And then he got the vaccine. And his balls blew up. His balls blew up and it swelled up. And it made him impotent. So then couldn't get married. The wedding was off. So this is a-

He could get married. She left him. Tell him like it is. Well, look. So this is my thing. Number one, let's take things one at a time here. because there's a lot to unpack from this in a knowledge story.

But let's start there. If you were getting ready to marry Brian, right? You're getting ready to marry Brian. And the week before, let's say Brian got stung by B, this balls slowed up. And he couldn't have kids. Would you still marry him? Yes.

So I have a couple of questions. Number one, before we get to the, veracity of this story, which the government came out and debunked. They had to. It was gaining too much traction. Before we get to the rest of that, can we talk about the fact that the woman that left this dude? Ruthless.

Ruthless? Because his balls, because of a medical condition, allegedly, she left him. Can we talk about the fact is that, that's not right, right? That's fucked up. It was a blessing in disguise because this ain't the woman for you. If she's got, you take vows that say through sickness and health. Well, clearly that didn't apply to her. She wasn't ready to commit to that because she bounced.

She wasn't down for adoption. She wasn't down for anything else. Surrogacy. Well, it wouldn't be surrogacy, right? Because she could still have a kid, you know? So she could carry a kid. That's right. What happens in that case?

If you're a man, do you have to then in that situation be okay with her just, going to a sperm donor, getting pregnant, and then, you know. I guess so. Can you, is there any way for them? And I guess if it was his balls that were the problem, then there's no way for them to go in there and then give her something,

some of his sperm, Siemens, no. All right. So she told that story. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And it went crazy. It went everywhere. We talked a little bit about it. Joanne Reed got at her.

Then she called Joanne Reed, to Koon on her Twitter. And so then this started to gain traction. Nikki has gained over 100,000 followers. Well, we know who those are. The All-Right people. And she started a real, real, she's almost like at this point right now, the face of vaccine hesitancy.

She's been invited. She's been praised by the right. She's been invited to the White House. Invited to the White House. Allegedly. The White House confirmed that they invited. House said they, okay, unless a new report came out, the White House said they invited her to a call. Right.

They didn't invite her to come, which is why she put out a video that was like, when have I ever lied? They invited me to come. The White House said, no, we just invited her to join a call. Interesting. Yeah. I didn't know that. I didn't know that part. And she got upset.

She got pissed off. So, and this all culminated with a couple of things happening. just recently. Number one, the Trinidad Health Minister came out and said that they have no records of some such case happening when some dude's balls blew up because of the vaccine and they couldn't get married. So either this was kept on the tuck or it is a fabrication. Not saying that necessarily Nikki is lying,

but saying that somebody that might have told her that could have been lying or that the story is part of a gigantic game of telephone, which we know happens. And it got back to her and it's not true. Okay. They don't say, that's it that happened. What also happened was Nikki Minaj's fans protested

outside of the CDC today. 100 barbs protested outside of the CDC. This has become an issue that is, big. We're covering it on legitimate news broadcasts. The Trinidad Health Minister is talking about it. The White House is involved. You guys, listen to the sound of my voice.

Get your fucking canned goods together. It's over. Don't even worry about it. We're shining the silver on the Titanic. all going down. Yeah. I, how in the

world this became this big of a deal from some rapper spouting fucking nonsense on their Twitter is amazing to me. And let me tell you why I say it's nonsense. I don't say it's nonsense because Nikki Minaj

isn't entitled to her opinion. She's of course entitled to her opinion. But here's the thing. I just want to say this one thing before I turn it over to rage. Everyone's saying, hey, take the opportunity to educate Nikki Minaj. Take the opportunity to educate Nikki Minaj. Talk to Nikki Minaj about what it really is.

I get that. I understand that. Take the time and make sure she has the right information. But Nikki's public platform demands that before she makes declarative statements and says the theme that she says that she has the right information. The story about the cousin's balls blowing up. before Nikki goes out to the 22 million people that follow her on Twitter and states that story as a fact,

she needs to know whether or not that happened or not. This is living in the post-Trump era where you spout something and then with a major gigantic platform and then after that, we decide whether or not it's true or not. It's not the Nikki Minaj's opinion that she's have a right to it. It's that to state that and take a stance on that based upon things that may or may not happen

have happened is fucking irresponsible. And whereas Nikki Minaj as a person, if she gets COVID, is going to have the access to all of the best stuff, monocloidal fucking antibody shit. She's going to be able to have people go out and draw the blood. of virgins.

She did get COVID. She did get COVID, right? So if somebody like Nikki Minaj, who's going to be dead, she's going to be able to probably tough it out because she's going to have the best medical care. Why these people out here might not have those same advantages. So I'm trying to understand what the fuck is going on. This has really been the thing.

Yeah. I look at it as I couldn't share your sentiments more about. this is it because my immediate thought when I saw that there were protesters in front of the CDC shouting out Fauci lied Nikki was telling us the truth I thought this is the end of days that was my first thought and the second thought was I hate us I do what is our society the fact that we are ignoring real information that's out there ignoring doing the research ignoring listening to people who have been educated, hired as experts to deal with this subject matter and saying that they're lying, but because I'm a fan of your music and the way you dress

and the way you rap that you must be telling the truth. It is that, that to me is the most wild thing that this has gained so much traction. And we, and people like a Tucker Carlson are giving credibility to somebody like Nikki Minaj on the subject of science, on the subject of public health. That to me is the craziest thing. Forget, yes, Nikki Minaj is the issue because she mishandled her platform by spewing her opinion out there without backing it up with any real facts or information or research and cause this whole thing. But I'm looking at the people who are taking that and really making it their truth. I think that is the most troubling thing

that we live in a society where it doesn't matter, where the facts don't matter, science doesn't matter, experts don't matter, it's who I like the most and whether or not I value their opinion and because I like them,

then they must be the ones telling the truth. I just can't get over Nikki Minaj being put on this platform as somebody who's like telling the truth and not being bullied and exposing the government, the White House and scientists for who they are

and Big Pharma, what credibility does she have to do that? Yeah. Look, the research on these things is out there. Nick Minaj, smart lady. I'm not saying that Nick Minaj can't go out there

and glean information from the corners of the internet and come back and have a salient, very direct conversation about vaccine hesitancy, what she thinks is the vaccine. She hasn't done that. Exactly. She got on there and she said a whole bunch of bullshit.

And after she said this bullshit, people called bullshit on her and she went to war on Twitter. This is not to tear down Nikki or anyone. This is to say that this is a serious discussion. I don't know how I was telling you. Like I think that what people should do is they should look or talk to some of these nurses that are dealing with overflowing ICU wards. And what this virus is really done. Like the thing that's going to actually bring America down,

it won't even be racism. It won't be, it'll be privileged in inequality is what it'll be. Because what that does is it removes you from what actual people are going through, right? And so Nikki Minaj in her life has all of these theories, but there's nothing behind them, right? There's no, there's like, there used to be a gold standard when it came to intellectual thought,

meaning like the thought that you put out it had to be backed with something. And we've gone off the gold standard of thought. You know, you're important in one place. That means you're important in all places. Yeah. All right. So you're important here.

And look, I'm guilty of this too because when one of these important people support something that I believe in, I prop them up and I say, look, LeBron said do this. So, hey, let's try to get people to do it. But you know what?

We need to stop doing that. Whether they're on our side or where they're not on our side. What we need to do is return to the point to where experts weighing in on situations matters. And that I mean just because they agree with me. If you want to talk to a doctor that says the Pfizer vaccine is no fucking good. Well, let's hear that doctor's opinion, right? Yeah. But you have to have some skin in the game because other than that,

we're going to have the people that make the fucking hot songs telling us what fucking shit to put in our bodies. Exactly. You know? And look, if you want to get mad at all I'm saying is this, guys, the guy's balls didn't blow up. That's all I'm saying. Right. The health minister says the guy's balls didn't blow up. Before you tell the world that the guy's balls blew up, you need to get on the phone with them.

That's all I'm saying. where is he where is this nigga right where's the cousin Jimmy said he wants to talk to to him and Dimmie Kinnahe put it on her Twitter that that uh that you know she she can put him in touch with Kimmel I want to know

now it's gonna be mad niggas out there lying talk about their balls blew up because of the vaccine right you know I don't know we need we have a doctor on here there's been a lot of doctors that have talked about this I want to have a doctor on here about whether or not your balls can blow up because I'm due for a booster I need to know. I need to know.

I'm due for a booster coming up pretty soon. I was to do March. Eight months? You didn't get it that early. I got it in March. November. Okay. Yeah. I know math.

Sorry, I thought you got it later. You're really on my back today. A little bit of a pallet cleanser from the Nicki Minaj nonsense. We have Debbie Brown, an expert on spiritual wellness. about to join us on the other side of the break here on higher learning. You guys are going to really enjoy this very powerful sister. So we'll take a break. Come back with Debbie Brown.

For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.

Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need of a disease. vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfair Radio.com. This episode is brought to by Borris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep-fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it. presenting the friars turkey breast only from boar's head a backyard tradition now available behind the counter visit your local deli today discover the craftsmanship behind every bite borishead committed to craft

since 1905 okay higher learning audience we have a treat for you today we're going to bring some healing energy boundless glowing healing energy into your life right now We have author, spiritual guru, like overall energetic soul, Devy Brown on the show today. Debbie, Debbie's a friend of mine. I've known Devy for a while now. I guess my first question to you is how would you best describe what it is that you do? Oh, well, I do so many things. I think it depends on what hat I'm wearing.

Also, can I just like anchor this and say, any time. you're cornered to say nice things about me. I'm so here for that. So thank you for the intro. She's a corner. So wait, wait, Debbie, does he not normally have nice things to say because I can relate? He, you know, Van is not known to be the kindest of gentlemen, but I love her. He is always one of the, he is always one of if not the smartest in the room and not, you know, one of the most creative minds I've ever met, but kind. I think I'm very kind. But you know, I just noticed lately, and then we can start here, actually.

I noticed that I'm kinder to people who I don't know than I am to the people in my life. Devi, does that mean something? It actually really does, yeah. What does that mean? What does it mean, Debbie? Well, it can mean a few things. Some of it could be a little bit of a barrier to intimacy to getting really deep when there's risk involved

or when it really counts because it is easier for us to feel like our most authentic selves. It's kind of the example of, you know, when you go on vacation and the person you happen to meet on vacation, you guys hit it off, you might exchange numbers. You're like, weren't they so great? They are great. If they come to LA, we've got to connect.

Or you know, you have this freedom, it feels like, with strangers. because there's no projection and there's no experiences that have created any kind of previous thoughts or context. So it does, when we're around people, we don't know sometimes, it does feel like we can be more free, more of our authentic selves. There's no story we're holding on to. There's no, you know, there's no perception of how we want to be perceived or how we're experiencing them. Van. That's,

nail right. No, right on the head, baby. Your mom said that about you, though. That, like, you give people close to you a really hard time. I just would like to point something out that this is about Debbie. So, you asked her to. I'm personally enjoying this. I love it.

But I do want to give you, Devy, the chance to answer the first question that Van said about explaining kind of who you are and what it is that you do so our audience can familiarize themselves with you if they don't already know. Yeah, definitely. Thank you. I think, you know, at the core of it, I'm a healer and I'm someone whose life mission is that of helping people heal and helping people have access to the highest version of themselves, to heal with grace, to heal with joy, specifically people of color. I think that that has been off the table for all of us since the inception of humanity. I think on a different level, I get a chance to wear.

many different hats. I have many different, you know, skill sets. I am an author. I have a book. I'm the chief impact officer at Chopra Global, which is Deepak Chopra's company. And there I have the amazing opportunity to be the voice of daily meditation on our global app, lead our retreats that we do many globally throughout the year. I just got back from one. Also help, you know, to help invigorate our education department, bring impact, bring diversity, bring inclusion, democratize the access that we're able to have to wellness, to the art of being well. So on a corporate wellness standpoint, I'm steeped in really activations around education, around scholarship, around programming, around partnerships.

On a one-on-one basis, I am a spiritual teacher that loves filling the world with all of the deep study that I've done in spiritual psychology, in Reiki and energetic healing in our chakra system. So there's there's a few things in my bucket, but I think overall, all of them are in service to what I know to be my mission. Wow. What a fucking powerful answer. Wow. And you have the most soothing voice. Like I feel. Isn't it nuts? Isn't it nuts? Like I know I really feel a lot calmer because this one like brings it up, you know? And like you just like have calmed me down. I feel so at peace. And I just want to ask a really quick question. When you talk about what you just did, were you in Austin for the conference? In Austin? There was like a Deepak

Tropra conference or something that was like happening. We just had a, we just had a silent retreat. I was just with Deepak in Yosemite last week. And we held silence for six days with almost 200 people. You held silence for six days. You didn't say nothing? No, you don't speak. You actually also avoid eye contact. You don't have anything that requires you wearing one of the roles that you play in your life. And, you know, I think when we think of like silence or like not talking, we're thinking of it from more of the lack perspective of like I'm being restrained. I'm being, you know, there's something over me. I'm not allowed to express. But like spiritual silence, it's all about this is my time to really recharge my. soul. This is my time to really get deep and clear in the areas that maybe I haven't had time to explore before. And so when you hold silence for like, we did it for a very robust amount of time so that like nice, juicy six days, but you're in nature. And so you're also being refueled and you're being deepened in so many ways. But the piece that I loved most about it, I love being in

silence because I talk so much and I communicate so much that when I get a chance to just be quiet, I'm like, you know, and I just like surrendered to it. But one of the great things about holding silence as a spiritual practice is you also really look to not perform in any way. So even things that we deem as like just natural societal gestures like, oh, I'm passing you as we're walking down the street. We give each other a nod. We look each other in the eye. I hold the door for you, you wouldn't be doing any of that in a silent retreat either. You would just be fully sovereign, like inside of yourself, just kind of in motion with where you feel led. But having to keep your personality on, having to keep any connection to the way you're being perceived, you get to strip

yourself of that. It's so refreshing. That's amazing. By the way, it thinks it's something that's probably like impossible for me to do. I don't think I have those six days. without talking. I just, I don't think. You don't love it, Van. I think you would love it. I think you would be surprised. I don't know if I could go six days. I don't think you could do six. I got to, I got to say something. Can you talk to yourself? That's what's going to be beautiful because you're such a cerebral guy. Like you're someone that has like such expansive, you know, mental prowess. Like if you were able to just be in your mind and if you were able to just,

experience yourself, you'd be able to kind of create some space, create some space in that big heart of yours, see what else wants to make room inside. So I want to ask you something specifically about, I do, about black people because like, because wellness sometimes is not, how can I say this? I'll personalize it. Well, I'm from, if I tell people growing up, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, if I tell people, hey, I'm going to take some time off unplug, not talk for a bunch of days. They say, no, I can't do that. Go talk to Jesus.

When you talk to Jesus, come back, everything is going to be okay. Okay. Right. Not saying that that doesn't work. What I'm saying is that in some sort of way, our experience in America has divorced us from the understanding or the normalizing of doing deep, deep, deep, non-religious spiritual work that's not connected to any specific dogma in order to connect with ourselves or find our greater selves.

Like it sometimes seems, my mother goes through this. Because my mother, you and her very much of the same soul, she's sometimes called a kook. She sometimes called all of these things because, you know, you'll see her walking along the river road, saging Baton Rouge or doing whatever. How do we, some of the things that you're talking about, these are, if I'm clear, these are Eastern philosophies, some of them. Am I right about that?

Well, almost everything originated as an Eastern philosophy, because that's just the makeup of humanity. You know, a lot of the things, a lot of the work that I do, this is a. existed since antiquity. You know, this is an existed since the dawn of humanity. And I believe that something that worked then will always work. You know, what's ancient is usually the better course of action and the most pure experience. But yeah, I mean, it could be considered Eastern for sure. I pull from a lot of wisdom tradition from all over the world. But it's just, it's always funny to me when we pair things in that light of Western versus Eastern. It's like one, you don't have to choose

too, we got to get clear on the fact that like Western society, it's not that old. So there's going to be an immense amount of things that we don't know, an immense amount of things that even if we, even if this country has existed for several hundred years, in the blink of an eye, you know, it's the blink of an eye in human history. In the grand scope of like human evolution, it's seconds. So there are so many things that aren't going to naturally make sense to us because we are re-learning them. We're re-remembering them. We're having access to things that are thousands and thousands and thousands of years old that have worked throughout time. So I guess that's my question. If they're so old and they have been such a part of human history,

how do we then renormalize them so people can experience healing that humans have been doing for ages and ages and ages? It seems a little counterintuitive that the oldest this stuff, the most tried and true stuff is the stuff that we think is the weirdest. Yeah. You know, I think I have a couple of thoughts on that. You know, I think that's what we're doing right now. You know, I think that we are in the age of reconnecting to all this work, to realizing that we can be our own healers, to being able to look at the structure of our lives from a more holistic view, which would be the blending of mind, body, and spirit, which is really what true health and true freedom looks like.

I think what's the second part of what you said. I had something else for that. I said that it's counterintuitive that the stuff that we've been doing for so long is now looked at as weird. Yeah. Well, I think too, a lot of that, you know, we have to think in terms of, it's not like we all have passed down accurate history for the last 30,000 years. You know what I mean? Like how actually commonplace is it that each generation is telling the full truth to one another? Everything always gets warped and changed based on who's in a position of power. History gets warped and change. And it's just about the seekers that find the pieces that are inaccurate or find the deeper truths and unveil them. But we are, we're an earth that's filled right now with seven billion people. And usually only the victors get to write the history. And most history has been written to one,

project God in a very particular Christian kind of way that also creates a structure and a hierarchy for how you access God and self. But then on top of that, look at how women have been left out of every story ever told and how the matriarchy has been left out. Like we're not, we don't do that great of a job of recording accurate history from multiple perspectives. So I think all of that plays into it as well, you know, when you think about then when you come into the space of being able to how many people are going to want to scream off the rooftops about how you can heal yourself for free or how you can get to know God without a middleman, you know? So it's just so important that we each do our diligent work. Like the work that I do, I'm not, I don't need to be validated

by anybody. I know what works for me. I feel pristine in my energy. I feel incredibly connected to God, to source, to my own creativity, to my own love. I give and receive love with ease. If someone else agrees with that or not, it could mean less to me, you know, it could mean, it means nothing to me. But that's the piece that we have to, I think, to answer your first question about, like, how do we really reclaim this or know that we can have access to this? Or how do we make this more common? It's what we're doing now. Like, it's this beautiful conversation, this discourse we get to have. It's people being their full selves and letting other people watch.

I am so into her. I'm sitting here like my gosh how much time do we have okay since van isn't a kind friend to you I'll take you just come on no let me let me make that better no no no he knows I'm kidding Van is such a great guy and I'm so grateful for you Van Van is such a great guy but he you know he's one of those friends that shines best when he's also poking you a little bit so that's why I have to poke him sometimes And I do the same thing.

I'm totally kidding. Yes, y'all, Van is a great friend. I want to go back to, I'm still fascinated by the six days of silence. I am. And I'm more so thinking of it as most people don't have the opportunity or maybe won't make time to have the opportunity to have six days of silence. And in listening to you talk about it, I understand how rich and fulfilling it can be. And I can only imagine how we would feel.

coming out of that six days of silence or what we would learn about ourselves. For the person who either doesn't have the time to do, it doesn't have the resources or, you know, isn't willing to make time for it, what can they do? What kind of steps can they do to deal with whatever it is they're going through? I know you particularly have talked about burnout. It's something that we go through in this media industry and people do it in every facet of their lives. They go through this burnout.

What are some steps that they can do to, I guess, not feel that way or to get right? Thank you so much for asking me this because I think the biggest misconception is that, you know, the way that wellness is often framed, especially now because wellness, mental health, like we are having a moment in the sun for it in a way that it's never been. So so much of it is framed around the tools that you have to buy or the experiences that have to be paid for. or, you know, it's like, oh, use this kind of lotion. This is more well. It has eucalyptus and it's, you know, $80. But all you actually need access to is the ability to sit down and be still and be quiet. It's free.

You can do it absolutely anywhere. I find myself now sometimes if I'm like stuck in line somewhere, if I'm at the grocery store, I just stop hand over heart and I close my eyes and I'm standing in line like this. and I'm focused on my breath. You know, I'm just slowly breathing in and out, in and out, and I'm just quieting my mind for two minutes. And so I think because we don't naturally have practiced doing this, and it is counterintuitive to the way that society has trained us to be so stimulated,

always caring about what people think, always consuming, we misunderstand the feeling of being new at something and a novice, with it not working or it not being enough. And so really it's like if even if you are, you know, if your schedule is really impacted, if money is short, you can't get away to a retreat. There are ways to create it for yourself. And it's even, you know, if you have an afternoon, if you have a free hour at some point, maybe you drive to the beach, maybe you drive to a wooded area in a state that you live in

or to a patch of grass somewhere that has beauty. Healing with beauty is part of healing with the five senses, healing with sight, with sound, with taste, with smell. Those are really powerful tools to come into alignment with self. And so even if you don't have a lot of time and you don't have a lot of extra income, finding that patch of grass somewhere, honoring yourself by making the commitment to go to it alone and just be quiet. Just stop and feel the sun hit your skin and then take a moment to really take that in and notice it. And as that sun is hitting your face and you're on this little patch of grass

and your shoes are off maybe, you're able to plant your feet in the soil. And you just close your eyes. And then you take a deep breath in through your nose, out through your nose. How does the warmth feel on my face? How does that warmth on my face feel in my heart? How does that make me feel now in my stomach? Am I feeling calmer? Is my nervous system coming back on track? Am I feeling like I'm giving myself enough space to be me. So it's really, it's really not always about the larger view. It's really the micro refinements, the really small micro adjustments that we can make. And so, you know, something I'm really passionate about when we think about in the work that I do, I'm always thinking about how do I democratize this? How do I, yes, I am sometimes leading a retreat

that costs thousands and thousands of dollars. But then I'm also going to teach a lecture that's a $30 entry point virtually so you can still have access to that information. Or if you can't come to a retreat, maybe you say, you know what, I do have $30. With that $30, I'm going to look up some ingredients. Maybe I can treat myself to a really special rejuvenating bath. Use two bags of Epsom salt, put in a bath bomb, put in a little fragrance, close your eyes, experience your body. Maybe if I have had, you know, say an extra $20, $30. Maybe it's about going and getting some really nice greens or some healthy pieces of food that will help me reconnect to my taste, to my body.

And then I look up, you know, some kind of a recipe for that. Or for me and the pandemic, my go to not being able to leave the world, I gave up television. I gave up all television and all film for the last year and a half. Don't turn it on at night. I look at bad. But it's like when nighttime comes after I put my kid down to sleep, after my workday is complete, I turn on a really beautiful playlist. I dim the lights in my house, you know, and I lights them incense. And that's just my time to be with me.

So there are ways to do it. We just have to get more curious about ourselves and what our needs are. And then we just have to be willing to be a little more consistent in doing it. So I read this. I was looking for it on my phone right now. but I don't know why it popped up. I read this article that talked about the difference between kids and adults. And it talked about a specific time in your life.

It's around age 25 or 26 that the number of times that you smile per day just like plummets. Right. Wow. Like it, this is a true thing, Rachel. No, I'm just thinking. I'm thinking of me when I was 25, 26. That's what I do. Like you get to a certain point in your life and then.

the number of times that you smile per day, it just goes down and down and down. Kids smile some insane amount of times. And then you get to a point and then you just stop smiling as much. And I read that. I can't find it now. I read it and I thought about something. It's not just smiling. It's about all the healthy shit.

I remember I would be inside the house watching something on TV and that was cool. And I would beg my mom to go out and like run around in the yard. And the first thing I would do when I went out in the yard is I would kick my shoes off. It was like the first thing I would do when I got out in the yard and we was time to play is I kick my shoes off. I kick my shoes off and running the grass. And like running the grass, run around. Sometimes you get bit up by little things you don't care. You're running around.

You're looking up at the sun. You're doing all of these things that you have to remind yourself to do. as you get older. Yeah. I had a therapeutic yoga teacher one time that said, hey, like when you walk, the next time you walk, like look up. Like, look up. It's like the older you get, the more you start looking like this or you're looking

it down, you're looking for what could have. It's like, look up in the air. Look up. Like, look at the sky like you used to do. My question is, why do we stop doing these things? Like, why? Like, I was walking one time and these kids saw me and they ran over to me and they said, hi and I was like I was like hey and then they ran back and they got one of their other friends and they

ran over to me and they said hello and I'm like hey to you too and then as we get older we become more closed off our energy becomes more of our own we stop sharing it all the things that we do naturally to ground ourselves as children we quit and then we got to pay $5,000 to go to a retreat with Debbie so she can teach us how to do it all over again Right. So what I'm like, why do you feel like we stop in the first place? You know, I think the reasons are a multitude. I think life is hard. Life is challenging. And society really painted this picture to all of us that has never been true for anyone. This idea that, you know, even dating back to fairy tales that this one choice or this one experience or this one person means happily ever after forever, you know. Our age expectancy now is what, like close to 100? So it's like, is that actually feasible or realistic?

I think for me personally, I'm very, I'm very sobered in the way that I understand life. I understand we are here to learn. And there is a lot of challenge and a lot of difficulty in that. A lot of us have experienced things that make absolutely no rational sense that are sometimes profoundly painful. And the majority of people have experienced things that, they more than likely have never uttered out loud to themselves, let alone another person. So I think at a certain age, the weight of those experiences start to hit us.

Roughly around your late 20s anyway, that's your time for being in Saturn return. So it's a shit show. But you come into this space where you really begin reckoning with what life is actually looking and feeling like versus the way that it was sold in position to you in your youth or in marketing. So I think that piece of it creates a lot of internal conflict. You know, for some people, it's like full existential crisis and you may go into your spiritual awakening.

For others, it sometimes feels like life getting heavier or getting a little jaded. And especially when you notice that everyone else is kind of wounded in that way, too, that there is no one coming to save you per se. And I think at that certain age, the risk gets a little heavier. You know, like it's not fun in games. Like you have to make choices and you're not going to get bailed out of these choices. And so then the weight comes on you and am I worthy to make these choices for myself? Am I enough to make these choices?

All of that starts to weigh in on our self-talk, you know? And I think so many people didn't have a strong foundation. Like right now we are just now in this year really looking at child rearing completely different, really looking at how we invest in our children's emotional literacy and mental health way different in ways that we never did. Most of us were always told to be quiet when something was wrong or you were physically, you were physically assaulted by a parent. You were given a spanking or you were, you know, there's so many, so many, and it is a physical assault, you know, and we make light of it. I know, I don't want to think of it like that, though, Diff. This is that chance.

I know. You know, when you think about like a parent smacking you because you disrespected them or you talk back to them, they want to do that to an adult in the street. If a person, if your parent got it, well, some parents, but if your parent got into it. If you're, if someone, you know, if someone in the line at the store rolled their eyes at you, you wouldn't have access or regency to slap them in their face and to cuss them. You know what I mean? or to withhold from them. So I think we're all just starting to really re-look at what we were told as the guiding systems.

And no one's wrong. We only can rise to the level of the consciousness we have access to. But yeah, I think it's really layered. But I think the most amazing thing is when we do get to do like what you express van, we still have access to that. Like today, right now,

anybody listening to this has the ability to walk outside. and kick off their shoes and reintroduce themselves to that joy, reintroduce themselves to that younger version of them, you know, that that was filled with that curiosity, that was filled with that optimism. There's always opportunity to reconnect.

I mean, you have truly been dropping gems during this podcast, which is brilliantly the name of, Debbie Brown's podcast, dropping gyms. I don't know if you know that. That was my segue. Thank you for taking that. away from me. Thank you for taking that away from me. But yes, that is the name of your podcast.

You see what I go through? Let me put my hand over my heart and censor myself for a second. I, gosh, I have, well, I want to ask you about your podcast first. So can you talk about a little bit about the things you discuss on your podcast and how people can get it? Because I know they're going to listen to this and they're going to want so much more from you. I'm so grateful. Thank you guys. My podcast is all about really making higher consciousness applicable for our day-to-day life. So it's called Dropping Gems. I have a bunch of different guests. Van was on an episode of the show.

We had a really powerful episode that is a fan favorite. And then I also have people in the show. I have leading doctors and everything from somatics to therapy to psychedelics. I have astrologers on the show. A recent episode I just did was with a Vedic medical astrologer who combined their medical practice as a MD and the astrology lineage of their family in India. And they use both to fully inform how to treat a patient and how to help people transform their lives in a holistic lens, mental, physical, emotional.

So I kind of, I use this show as I've been kind of, I've been deep diving my whole life, but I've been like deep in the mystery and in wellness in this way for about 10 years. And so I like to just really share some of the experiences that I've been having with different healers from all over the world with, you know, all the different modalities of healing. Like maybe hypnotism is your way to heal from your wounds. Maybe therapy wasn't the right fit, but deep diving in this way could be. So that is what I explore on my show. That's I love talking about all the things, the perceived weirder, the better. But yeah, it's all about making really higher consciousness, not just snackable,

not just more understandable, but more applicable for your everyday life and your awakening. Debbie, I feel better. I always do. I love you. I feel better. I always do. Before we get out of here,

is there anything that you want to plug besides we got to dropping gyms? Is there anything else that you want to plug? Anyplace you're going to be anything you want people to get of Debbie Brown coming up. Yes, thank you. Hit me on Instagram at Debbie Brown. I lead daily meditation on our Chopra app. And so I just launched a 10-part workday series, workday meditation series on how to de-stress and how to also find your purpose.

So that's available when you download the app. You can hear my voice every day. It's called Chopra. And yeah, on my Instagram, you can stay connected to all the events. They have a few teachings I'm doing coming up. I have a retreat here in L.A. coming in October, depending on when you hear. this. I have one that I'm doing that I'm so excited about with Deepak and with Chopra Global

in Mexico this coming December about the seven spiritual laws of success. So if you feel connected, my Instagram and the link in bio has all the things. All right. Thank you so much, I appreciate you. Good to see you too. Thank you. Rachel, so grateful for your time. Oh, thank you so much. Van, I'm so grateful. You know. know I love you so deep, and I'm so happy to see you. So thank you guys. Bye, bye, Beth. Bye. Bye. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market

Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365, strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with the yellow sale sign storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck. And the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something, and maybe you've got it too.

Chevrolet, together let's drive. Visit Chevy.com slash trucks to explore the lineup. Wow, great interview with Debbie. Very powerful lady. You like her. You like Debbie now. Are you going to become a Debbie disciple now? Is that what we call ourselves?

Yeah. I've already downloaded the app. I mean, she's great. and I would pay the money to go to a retreat. I don't know if I can do six days of silence, but just to reconnect. I bet you would. You bet I would what? Pay the money to go to the retreat.

I bet you would. Money bags, Lindsay. Okay. I just put up an ad for the first time in a long time. I haven't been QVC Rache in a while. I think you've hurt my business, to be honest. No, I don't think I hurt your business. I know who hurt your business.

I know who hurt your business. I know who's been making calls behind the scenes. Making calls behind the scenes trying to hit out at you. By the way, he's coming back. You haven't heard the last of him. You haven't heard the last of him. You haven't heard the last of him. He's coming back.

He's going to seek his revenge on you. Are you going to be ready? Why? He's going to seek his revenge. This isn't a comic book story, Van, stop. Boy, but it would be funny if it was one. It would be funny right now if C.H. was somewhere just like in a layer, planning, plotting, and strategizing.

He's going to get you back, Rachel. Yes. All right. There was a versus, and the verses was good. You watched it? I did watch it. I did watch it. It was a good old New York hip-hop.

Jaru versus Fat Joe. Okay. Now here's the thing. Fat Joe is probably the most lovable guy in hip hop right now. It's between Fat Joe and Noria, I'd say. But in a versus. Okay. I don't think that Fat Joe was really going to be able to compete with Jarl. No. He was using songs that Jarl rule was on. Jarl rule held the radio down for like, so like a law. You guys don't even remember how big Jaru was. Jarlal was in many ways. the popiest of pop some one of the maybe the biggest guy. Everybody living it up. What do I do? Everybody living it up and say what you do. That was amazing. Ladies, you love it, you're very good impression.

That's Jai. Okay, so Jha, it was a great expression. of love between brothers these guys have both aged really well in hip hop it was a lot of fun. Out of this came something that really to me was in ways a little more interesting

in the verses itself. The verses itself was a lot of fun it was one of the best verses versus his verse I to me so I'm not throwing any shit on the verses but out of this we finally got we finally got confirmation that Diddy wants to be involved in the verses.

Sean P. Diddy Combs wants to be involved in the verses. Did you see Diddy talking about this on the comments of the verses? Yeah. I thought he was going by love now. No? Love, Diddy, Puff, Puff Daddy. Hey, Sean, Sean Combs. Siddy wanted to be in the verses.

Yeah. Now, he didn't initiate it, right? Like he was kind of brought into it and gave his opinion as to what he thinks or how he would participate in a versus the only way? Well, people were asking. Well, people were asking them. People were asking them. People were definitely asking him if he would do the verses.

Like, you know, different people were saying, hey, would you do the verses? And he was saying he would do a versus. But the only person he really wants to do a versus with is Dr. Dre is what he said. He said that on the thing. He was then challenged after this. Oh, this happened after. Okay, got you.

By Jermaine Dupree. It might have happened. And that's in the comments. I didn't see what it happened in the comments. I did see afterwards that Jermaine Dupree challenged Puff to a versus. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then Puff responded saying,

Jermaine Dupree, your arms are too short to box with God. And that's very true. Jermaine Dupree does have short arms. Well, who's God in this scenario? Because I have an issue with that. I mean, I guess Puff, but that's a saying. That's a rap saying, you're always too short to box with God. You know what I'm saying.

I'm aware. I get it, whatever. They don't take it. So he basically insinuated that he would crush Jermaine Dupre in aversis, saying that he could beat Jermaine Dupre with Biggie and Mary J. Blige alone. Puff did a lot of stuff for Mary J. Blige, obviously. And of course, Biggie's career was all with bad boys. so a lot of that stuff is going to be produced by Sean Puffy Combs. I think that this is the biggest fucking cap of 2021.

Really? Fuck yeah. Okay. If we're talking about 20 records, we're talking about 20 songs. 20 songs, okay. 20 songs. 20 songs

Puff versus J.D. Not only is it competitive So competitive. But Puff better not fuck around with J.D. I really don't know what if Puff and J.D. went head up on the versus.

And Puff washed J.D. It will be straight up New York Bias bullshit. You know what it is too? It's different eras, right? You got the early 90s versus the late 90s 2000s because if he's just dealing with Mary and I mean Mary yes

she's gone on but if he's from he's talking about the beginning you're talking about just Mary and Biggie you're really discrediting all that JD did for the 2000s. Early 9-9th 2000 not you I'm just saying in general. No I know what I'm telling you is you

could bring any amount of things you could there's any amount of things that you could bring we're talking about Germain Dupree. Exactly Usher, Mariah Mariah Carey, his own music, okay? Some Janet Jackson shit.

Some ludicrous. Ludacris. Snoop. I mean, he's worked with everybody. We acting like the so-so deaf sound didn't define a whole portion. Jagged edge.

Like, escape, jagged edge, all of it. Like, we acting like, what world are we? we living in. But we're not. Did he's acting like that? A lot of people acting like that's the case. Puff, like, look, the bad boy sound, obviously is the bad boy sound.

Right. We're talking about Jemaine fucking Dupree. I'm actually offended. And you should be. I love J.D. Obviously, I love Puff. We've done work. I'm actually offended because I feel like what this really is is more fucking hatred on

the South. as if I did take it to the south as if breaking fucking usher you know what I mean as if breaking usher remember now Puff had usher too Puff had usher The first usher album I'm really fucking with it he did he had my way No that's not the first usher album see

The first the first usher shit The first the first usher shit is can you get with that is like that Usher pulled up with J.D and J.D. made a star. Yes, he did. So Diddy had him first. Is that what you're saying? What I'm telling you is that Diddy was producing Usher and doing stuff with Usher. Diddy is a fucking amazing mind, corporately, brand wise, music, all of that. And he is a Titan on a Mount Rush, Cultural, Mount Rushmore of hip hop.

You're going to have to put PDD on there. of all the people who have made things happen without a doubt. I'm going to tell you something. If we're talking about 20 songs, hit for hit, you fucking right Jermaine Dupree can go with Diddy. I would love this versus. I think that Diddy owes Jermaine Dupre an apology. Absolutely.

Now, if we're talking Titans of perceived Titans of hip hop, who perceived? Interesting way. Listen, I'm telling you, if we're talking about perceived titans of hip hop, yes, Diddy is akin to Drey. If we're talking about perceived titans of hip hop, but I would argue that the only reason why that is the case is because Jermaine Dupree and what he has done that that's actually underrated. It's Jermaine Dupree for all of what he was able to do. I think what he's done is underrated. You mean to tell me in a versus Yahu.

you can't put up the Can't You See Remix featuring Big, right? You can't put that up against the Drew Hill in My Bed remix featuring Jermaine Dupree and the Brat. Those two records aren't like right there. You want to dance. I can make you dance. Yeah. You want to dance. I like the Drew Hill shit better.

I actually do too. Do you think, let me ask. you this. When you think of Germain DePrie, when you think of Jermaine DePrie, you name so many different artists that he's attached to, right? Like, yeah, you think Bow Wow, like they came up together, but it's like his, the, him being behind music, it's so many different artists. When you think of Diddy, you think Biggie. You think Mary to, but you think others, but it's like, Diddy, Biggie. When you think Dre, you connect him to like another big artist, right? Like, You think Dre, Snoop.

Do you think maybe because with JD, it's spread out against, I know they, I know Ditty's worked with so many other people. I know Dre has, but like you almost affix them to somebody else as a, that's a major Titan as opposed with JD. It's not the same thing. Well, with Drew, well, nobody can fuck with Dre. Like, Dre, Dre, we got. Yeah, Dre got all the hip-hop.

I told you that when you, no, I told you that when you tried to say L-L. Remember? No. I said, Dre and Snoop. I said, Drey and Snoop. I beat you on that. The people have spoken. No, no, that's completely different.

I wasn't talking about it like, that's different. Nobody's fucking with Dre. Drey, like nobody's fucking with Dre because Dre got fucking. But I would rather see Diddy versus JD and a versus more than I'd rather see Diddy and Dre. I'm going to be honest with you. Diddy disrespected JD? Of course he did.

I'm looking at it right now. There's other shit. I mean, we're talking about Usher's career. We got, you got it bad. All of this shit that's going on. Like, all of this shit that's happening. My God, my best ofation of Mimi. Usher, we got, we got Chris Cross shit if we want to bring the kids into it.

Oh, yeah, Chris Cross. Chris Cross. Bywow, Jagged Edge. I'm looking at it right now. Look at all of these records. Just number ones. Burn. Confessions Part 2.

My boo. Fucking. Let me hold you. Bawaw featuring Amarion. Let me hold you. Like all of this shit, shake it off. Mariah Carey. Well, what the hell is going?

What the hell is Diddy? What's Diddy on? Yeah, he did Monica too. Yeah, he did Monica. What are you talking about? Confessions. Ooh, he was, oh, I'm looking at it now. Yo, I got to be honest with you.

Diddy owes Jermaine Dupree and apology. For sure. I'm looking at all of this stuff. We got some TLC shit on here. You know, the brat. Everybody. Everybody. By the way,

Lil Kim Harkhor, not tonight, not the remix, but the original, but that's still straight. He worked with Alia. Of course he worked with Alia. He's Jermaine Dupre.

Mace. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Everybody. Everybody. I'm sorry. I got to be honest with you. All of you New York heads out there,

all of you guys in New York out there that then gas puff up to make Puff think that he gonna get in a versus with Jermaine Dupree and just wash Jermaine Dupree? Y'all nuts. You're nuts. Agreed. I'm still looking.

I want everybody to know I'm still looking at the list. I just now come across the 2000s. It's nuts. It's nuts. I was immediately upset. immediately. Oh my gosh, he did Chingi. He did right there.

Let's just, let's just stop. And let's not forget money ain't a thing. We need to talk about his own songs. There's too many things that we can't forget. Okay. So I just want to let everybody know that there is no one who is straight up washing Jermain Dupri in a Ders. Nobody.

No one who's going to, you, there's nobody Quincy Jones, maybe. You know what I mean? Definitely Quincy Jones. Well, Quincy Jones could wash anybody. Quincy Jones created music.

There was no music before Quincy Jones. He invented it. But there's no one who can straight up wash Jermaine Dupree. And certainly not any of his contemporaries. None of his contemporaries are just going to straight up wash Jermaine Dupree.

God damn, man. That's crazy. All y'all, this East Coast buyer's got to stop. I'm serious, man. God damn acting like Jermaine So, so deaf Maybe it'll happen. Maybe my thing is,

Diddy, if you feel that way, then prove everybody right, prove yourself right. Nah, because it's never going to happen because Diddy only wants to do like one versus. You know what I mean? So he's not going to do two verses.

He's not going to do Jemay Dupree. He wants to have the big Titanic East Coast versus West Coast big huge thing. It should be a tournament. It should be a tournament. Versus tournament? Yeah, like a versus tournament. You got J.D.

Diddy, whoever wins that, goes against Dre. She was saying? And then get other people before it. I like it. Like a sweet 16. Speaking of Usher, CBS has backed out of a show that they were going to do. The show was called The Activist. And the show was going to be a game show that blends in activism.

I'll tell you what, man. White people got to be stopped. Hey. You had black people agree to be a part of it. So what? Niggas need a check. I said, okay. Niggas need a check.

Oh, so you would have taken this check? If they wanted me to host an activist show, you would have said yes? Of course, yeah. I wouldn't have said, yeah. I wouldn't want. You're out of your mind, Rachel. You said that.

Rachel. I wouldn't do this. Rachel, you would have done the activist show. You would have asked for it to be restructured. I'm not saying you wouldn't do an activist show, but this one, tell the people how it goes. So the show was originally going to be, one where six activists from around the world come together to bring meaningful change to one of three urgent universal causes, health education in the environment.

The activists will compete in missions, media stunts, digital campaigns, and community events aimed at garnering support from the community and garnering the attention of the world's most powerful decision-makers demanding action now. So this is something, let me tell you what happens. This is something to where they go, how can we make something? Okay. And then while we make something, we also are on the side of social justice because social justice is hot. So let's do it. Right away, they put this on Twitter and they got their asses lit up. Usher was one of the hosts for this.

Usher and a couple people. Usher, Priyanka Chopra, Jonas. this. They were definitely, and Julianne Heff was going to be on it. They were going to be some of the host, but they backed off of it. Now, it's just going to be a documentary series. It's going to be a documentary series, but not a game show. You had a problem with this being a game show. You're saying, you're saying this is something that you wouldn't have hosted. I wouldn't have hosted it because I, well, one, I'm not an activist. I think they should have an activist hosting. I think that's what I think they should have, it should have all been centered around activists.

But the concept of the show does seem to capitalize on what's hot right now. Right. Rather, to me, than the true intention of activism. And if you understood that, then you wouldn't have them competing against each other for their causes. You would just be doing something to support whatever it is that they're an activist for, whatever cause it is they're fighting for. And just the fact that they were being judged. John, I can't even imagine what I would say as a judge.

Like, oh, you didn't go hard for your cause. You should have done this instead of this. It's like, to be, for a competition show, it's more focused on the competition in the game than it is the actual meaning of it. So if the purpose is for me is to be meaningful, you've lost it. And then don't even get me started on Julianne Huff being one of the judges.

Who chose her? Why? Because of the blackface stuff? Well, yeah, there's controversy. I mean, I know she's apologized for it and she said that, but then it's like, of all the people to choose, you couldn't choose somebody who didn't have some controversy, controversy attached to them in the past.

I like that it's a diverse group of people, but it's like, who did this? She came out and she said she's not qualified to judge her new show after backlash. She said she is deeply listening with an open, heart and mind. I heard you say that there was hypocrisy in the new show because of the root of activism is as well. fight against capitalism and the trauma that it causes so many, that the show itself felt like a shiny capitalistic endeavor of her.

I also heard, you say, that trying to value one cause over another cause felt like the oppression of Olympics and totally missed and disrespected the many activists who have been killed, assaulted, and faced various abuses for their causes. Because of this, there is a feeling of insult to humanization, insensitivity, and hurt as being rightfully felt. Furthermore, she says later, I am not that I am not qualified to act as a judge. She says,

I do not claim to be an activist and wholeheartedly agree that the judging aspect of the show missed the mark and furthermore that I am not qualified to act as a judge of the show. I'm not going to lie. I would have definitely taken the show.

I don't believe you. But okay. I think you can say that now that you don't have that opportunity. And I would have been like, I'd have been even harder on them. I'd have been like, hey, you didn't compete this section in time. So guess what tonight?

Little nigger star. You see the ridiculousness of this. You see what he's doing, y'all? You understand what you've done. Hey, you didn't get the wind sailing right today. So guess what? Fuck the environment. Not only do we not get seeds to plant new trees.

Because you failed the mission. That's it. We're going to burn down 30 acres of renewable forest. My point, exactly. Yeah, this one, this one has to go. I'm not going to lie, though. I'm not going to lie, though. I'm not bullshin you when I say that I probably would have taken it.

Because I'm being honest with you that I probably would have taken it. I probably would have taken it because it's one of these things to where it's obviously a horrible idea. It's obviously a horrible idea, right? But for a million dollars a year, you could probably talk yourself into it, you know? I don't think that you would get a million dollars a year for it. Yeah, if I'm hosting a show on fucking CBS, I'm getting a million dollars a year. If I'm hosting the show on CBS, it's like that. I'm going to get a million dollars a year.

No, you're not going to get a million dollars a year. I'm going to get a million dollars a year. Okay, they're not going to give you a million dollars because I'm a fight. Plus. The only reason they wouldn't give it to me is if I turned to you. down. Well, the reason why they wouldn't give it to you is because if I'm going to get a million, then you're going to get 75. 75. 750,000. You're right. You're right. Um, no, but seriously, by the way, Rachel's a much more established host than me. There's no job out

there where she would not get paid more. But what I'm saying is obviously it was a bad idea, but I'm being serious though. Like, I'm being serious. I probably would have been able to to convince myself, hey, at least I'm doing something. Well, you know, when you come from working at fucking TMZ, how can I say no to the CBS activist show? Like, you know what I mean? It's like, what am I going to do? But no, they're not doing it anymore.

So, and of course, because this happened, they brought back up back in 2013 when she went as the girl from Orange's New Black and Juliana Huff was in L. Blackface. She did L. Blackface in 2013. Somewhere right now, there's a white person that's going to fuck their career up by doing blackface. I'm just going to tell you one last time, don't do it. You're not

going to listen. You're not going to listen. You're not going to listen. They're remaking the bodyguard at Warner Brothers. Hate it. Why do you hate it? Aren't you tired of the remakes? Honestly, I feel like there should be a rule in place. A certain number of years have to pass

before you can make a remake a movie. Not enough time has passed for the bodyguard to be remand. It's too, it just came out. When did it come out? 94, 95, 96? Like 92.

Like 25 years ago or something. I think that's too soon. I think that's too soon. I think it's got to be like 40 years. 40 years for a remake? Are we out of ideas? Do we not have enough creative ideas where we need to dip back this early, this soon, and remake the bodyguard?

I just, I feel like I just, I'm, I'm against it. I don't know. They're redoing the matrix. They're rebooting the matrix. The matrix is coming out. They're making a Matrix 4. But it's a reboot, though. But it's the same, it's not a reboot.

It's the same people. Right. That's not a reboot. This is a whole, this is a new cast of people. You can reboot something with the same people, but your point is very solid, though. Yeah. I'm not ready to see it. I'm not saying don't ever do it, but I just feel like there's a time when it's too soon to remake a movie.

And 25 years to me, it's too soon. So the bodyguard, so actually it's more like 30 years. I said 40. So 40 is the cutoff. The bodyguard's like 92, 93, maybe something like that. So it's almost 30 years. 50. I can still remember when the bodyguard came out and we're already doing another one.

I just feel like it's too soon. I can't be alone in thinking that, guys, right? I mean, I'm not saying you're- Lawyers, let me know. Too soon or not. Do it Reddit about it. It's too soon to remake the bodyguard. were ridded about it. Let me ask you a question. If they were to recast the bodyguard,

who would you want to be in it? Hallie, but not Barry. Hallie, what's their last name? Bailey. Bailey. Bailey. That's not going to work. Okay, well, that's my choice. Why would you want her? She's not even, she's not a big enough star for that yet. Think about who Whitney Houston was when they made the bodyguard. That's, that is one reason I don't think that they should even be remaking it yet because it was Whitney. How would you feel if they remained moon, Walker. Well, who they're going to remake it with? That kind of would be hot.

It depends. I'm going to watch Moonwalking tonight. Like who. Chris Brown. Who else? Nah, nigga. They're not going to remake Moore. I didn't say that they will.

I'm thinking of somebody who's like tall, slim, can dance. They're not going to remake Moonwalker. I didn't say that they were. I'm saying who could do it. Fucking County Jail Walker is going to be the movie. But they're not who. I didn't say they should. I said, who could.

I said who should. Oh, by the way, we should talk about this real quick. The thought warriors don't appreciate our relationship to Chris Brown. I don't have a relationship to Chris Brown. Do you, do you, so I'm asked you a question. You don't have a relationship to Chris Brown? I don't. I don't know him.

I know what I'm saying is our relationship with Chris Brown to who he is, the fact that we say Chris Brown's name and we do not, every time we say his name cast him in the role of abuser, serial abuser. Do you still have... Do we talk about him that often? No, but we have talked about him.

We should bring this up. We have talked about him. And when we talk about Chris Brown, it doesn't seem like we attribute those things to him. And that I've seen in the Reddit that some of the thought warriors don't appreciate the fact that we treat Chris Brown like he's any other performer

and we don't bring up some of the cases of abuse that he has been attached to. Do you still have those feelings of Chris Brown when you think about it? So it's hard to, it depends what the context of talking, like how were we talking about Chris Brown? If it's worthy of me saying every single time, oh, by the way, he did this. I do think he did it. I think that he should have put this way. I do think he did it. I'm going to say something. Say it. It's hard for me. I think. he was wrong for what he did and I totally think that that he was an abuser and he definitely

mistreated Rihanna and that was despicable and it was gross and yes we should always remember the fact and never forget that he did that. Sometimes it's hard for me to hold on to that when Rihanna forgave him and I don't know if they had a relationship or definitely a friendship. So it's hard for me when the person who was right there involved in it has, you know, like she spoke out about it, she condemned it, but then moved past it to where they were able to, to years later, move on to something. So it's hard for me to feel the same way I did back then when Rihanna, the very person involved with it, has seemed to forgiven him and moved on.

It's not that I forget. It's just that, okay, maybe there's a difference because the person who was abused has seemed to forgiven him. Huh. That's awesome. I'm not taking it away from what he did. I please don't think that by any means. Well, that's a fair point.

I guess so I guess my thing is this. And I don't like to have a real dialogue about this because it's something interesting. And it's, there's a couple of different narratives here. One narrative is Rihanna forgave Chris Brown, but then other people accused. Chris Brown of, you know,

conduct that mirrored maybe what happened. Like, Carucci made some allegations. She did? She did. Oh, I didn't know that. Some allegations. Oh, God. You know, and it's been whatever.

I guess my thing is, and I'm serious about this, is sometimes I don't know where to draw the line, right? Give you guys an example of something. when we were at we were at TMZ Chris Brown's name will come up and everybody would be freaked out right it would be something where everyone would sort of talk about oh man Chris Brown sucks Chris Brown's this and you look look

there's a lot of people who are going to hold on to what Chris Brown did or what people have said about Chris Brown and that's going to be fine but like whenever we would talk about Tommy Lee or Motley crew or any of those people, they would never have that same thing. And I remember being in the office and be like, you guys know that Tommy Lee went to county jail for beating up Pamela Anderson.

Like when you talk about like how awesome Tommy Lee is or, you know, they do things on TMZ. They would joke about how big Tommy Lee's dick is or they would, they would talk about, you know, Tommy Lee did a reality show and they were talking about all of that stuff and how cool Tommy Lee is. And they would never be the same. And I'd be like, I'm not. making this up. I'm saying like Tommy Lee beat up Pamela Anderson. He beat her up to the point to where now they

once again they dated after that too. He beat her up to the point to where like they fucking they put him in jail for it. Or other people like that. So sometimes I guess and I'm not saying this to excuse one thing that anybody did.

Sometimes I do find myself wondering well all right this happened so is this something that we follow away is what this person is are they never ever allowed every time we bring up your name we say piece of shit

I just don't sometimes I don't know how it goes but I'm gonna be honest with you when I hear Chris Brown's name I know that there's a whole bunch of stuff around but there's not that emotion behind it like I don't feel oh bad horrible terrible like ridiculous

whatever person. There are other people where it is true, but for some reason it's not with him. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's wrong. Sometimes I don't, I think Chris Brown, hey, dangerous guy,

like maybe probably parts of his career, he fucked him up. And he's definitely hurt people. We've seen that. But I don't think, like scummy the earth when I think about what his name pops up. I did initially when it happened.

But I think over time and the, you know, seeing the relationship that he's had with Rihanna since then as time has passed, I think for me, I've softened up. I don't, I don't forget it. You know, I don't want people to think that it's every, I never look at him and I don't think what did happen. But at the same time, I think you brought up a good point with the drawing the line thing. Where do you draw it? Just because we mention him doesn't mean that we have forgotten what he did. And I think that that's an important point to make. You can talk about somebody with also not talk.

about all the terrible things that they've done just because they've done just because you're not talking about it doesn't mean that you don't acknowledge it's very true well said rach well said uh yeah where is the thought warrior real talk this is a thought this a new segment we're going to do a thought warrior real talk segment where we talk about things that challenge the sensibilities of the thought warrior nation and i want you guys to come up with some things as you guys want to hear us talking about i know michael jacks is going to come up i just said that i was going to going to watch Moor Walker later. I know Michael Jackson is going to come up.

There's a guy that wants to come on this podcast. His name is Arian Foster. He's an ex- The former football player? The former football player, okay. Aaron Foster, a friend of mine, convinced that Michael Jackson didn't do it. All right.

He's, Aaron is a highly intelligent guy. And he's done the work on this, at least. The work on it. He's looked at it. He's convinced that Michael didn't do it. I guess I don't, my fear in bringing somebody on is I don't, you know, there are allegations against Michael, there have been allegations against Michael Jackson.

There have been settlements with Michael Jackson and I don't want to be insensitive. I don't want to be able to have been abused and I don't want to, I don't want to perpetuate this argument of defending or this guy who's done the work to determine about. Wow, you're so shady. I just I just I I listen I I love Michael and I'm sorry I'll say that but I also don't want to be insensitive to people who've been abused by having someone on income discredit so allegations against that that's that is my fear and I say that as a person who loves Michael Jackson and I and I know that's controversial to say as well so here's the thing though and I'm serious about this I'm going to get this figure out in my head because I have to be. consistent. And I've talked about this Michael Jackson thing on the podcast before. I have to be consistent. Okay. And here's the deal. We have to have space to talk about whether or not Michael Jackson did it. We have to have space to talk about that. Now, there are multiple accusers over

a lot of years, and it seems to be a pattern there. We have to, but we have to be able to talk about whether or not that's the case. Now, if in fact, Michael did do it, then, or, or, you know, or Or if we can put any space between what's alleged against Michael Jackson, what people have said that he's done, and what we feel like intellectually actually happened, then I have to find a way to free myself of, of my emotional hold to the music and stuff. Like, I think that the survivors and people who have been abused that they deserve that. But in order to do that, we're, I don't think that there's anything wrong with having an actual. deep conversation, an intellectual conversation about the aspects of what we think we know and whether or not they actually happen the way that they say that they did. And I think sometimes we have to de-emotionalize these things to where we can talk about

this. And look, we can do episodes like this about all kinds of things, things that are close to my heart too. You know, we can do them about all kinds of things. But I think that there should be space for us to really have a conversation about whether or not he actually did it. And there are people out there. And like I said, Aaron's one of them who have done a lot of research and they say no. And then there are people like myself who watch the documentary and think.

That was going to ask you, did you watch the whole thing? I did watch it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very hard not to believe those guys. I'll just be honest with you. Very hard not to believe those guys. Well, one of them.

One of them. One of them. One of them. But just recently, I think Aaron told me just recently a judge throughout both things. So, I mean, we'll bring, we'll bring Aaron on and we'll do a whole, I'm promising you guys right now. A whole Michael Jackson did he do it episode. Okay. I I'm okay I think that's honestly I think that's the only way to do it

it's got to be it's got to be a whole episode but we got to do both sides so are you going to bring one of the accusers on not one of the accusers but we have to either I have to be I don't want to put anybody through that either one of us is going to have to be proxy for one of the accusers I'll be proxy okay all right I'll do it talk about it I'll rewatch as hard as it is watch finding never land again All right, mailback, let's go. Wait, well, wait. I want to go back to something because a lot of times we start stuff

and sometimes we don't finish on the podcast. Going back just to end the Whitney Houston Bodyguard thing, I said it should be Hallie. What's her last name again? Hallie Bailey. I don't know, because I keep wanting to say Davis. And I don't know. Hallie Bailey, you said she's not big enough.

Who do you think could do it? Because when I said, okay, but that's like to me remaking Moonwalker, who could do it? You really can't name people. Who would you name? For Whitney. Rihanna. For Whitney?

Rihanna's perfect. You just change up to Mittany, music, stuff like that. You do. Rihanna is the... She's obviously big enough. It's just more of the... I don't know. I can't see it.

Rihanna's perfect. You have Rihanna. And if you want to get a white boy, you do Ryan Gosling. You got yourself a movie. I like Ryan Gosling. Yeah. I know you do.

No, no, no. Not that way. I know. I like the casting. I like the cast. No, everybody, everybody likes Ryan Goslin. I'm going to be honest with you. I've said this before.

Ryan Gosling, probably number one white man in the world. Number one. Did you say that it was Jake Gyllenhaal before? No, he's in the top five. Okay. By the way, there's a new addition to the top five white guys in the world, by the way. Because we asked. Go ahead.

Jason Sudakis, aka Ted Lassow. Ted Lassow, Jason Sudeikis right now. Take a bow on my friend. friend, you're the number two white dude in the world. I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what right now. If we find some dirt on Jason Sadecas, if he fucks up, if Ted Lassau fucks up, I'm joining the nation of Islam. No bullshit.

If Ted Lassow fucks up. If they find some racist shit on Ted Lassow, it's over for me. I'm not even trying what y'allel. Ted Lassow or Jason. Ted Lassow or Jason. Jason, who's talking about Jason, either. Well, Ted Lasson. They won't for Ted.

Like Jason Sudecas, if they find something like Jason Sudecass, if Jason Sudecass, if Jason Sudecass lets me down, I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a start a militia and just say, fuck it. We're just going to go to war. I'm out. Jason Sudecis is the last hope. He's like the loose Skywalker of white boys.

He's the last hope. All right, mailback. Let's go. Hurry up. Mailback time. Time to read your letters. And then we'll reply. to them.

Oh, it's mailback time. Write us with your queries and we'll chime in. This is from Lauren Gold. What would y'all have worn to the Met Gala? What was the theme? American fashion, I think, something like that.

Well, if Van and I were attending together, I think quite naturally we would wear antebellum attire. Oh, my God. Oh, my Lord. That might be the best answer to a question I have ever heard before my life. Somewhere, Chris Harrison just spilled his mint julep. I'm telling you, that is the best answer to a question I've ever heard before.

That's exactly what we were where. We go there and we dress up straight up like some kirkinels. Like, we go straight up. Shout out to Gregory with Kirk Cornell. You're fine. It's okay. We're having a joke in your expense. It's some weird shit.

Matt James, stop ducking me. That's the perfect answer. All right. We got anything else? Yes. From Shalee, from Shalee, Faye. Would you ever go on another reality

competition show? If so, which one? So I guess that's me who's gone on one reality. Not a one. No, I would, I would, unless I'm hosting, I'm not going on another one.

Interesting. I'm not going on another one. I mean, if I had to be forced just to answer her question, I'd pick something where I could travel. So maybe like the amazing race. And I've never even watched that show before, but, you know, you could travel the world.

You should go into activists. Next question, Judy. Next question. From Natalie, Joe Copeland. What's the most embarrassing thing you've ever done in public? And she also said that she loves y'all. Oh, thank you.

I don't really get embarrassed. I did something embarrassing in public one time. You've urinated on yourself in public, so. That wasn't the most embarrassing thing. I shit my pants. I'd like to end the podcast at this point because I don't want to know this story. What? Wait, wait, how many people were around?

A grip. Were you at home or like at a restaurant? I was at the student center. This was in college Yeah Were you drunk? Mm-mm. What happened?

I had eaten something bad There was this place around campus at Louisiana Tech They had fried pork chop sandwich No, that's why you don't need pork chops That's why I don't fuck with pork chops And I had eaten a fried pork chop sandwich And I had eaten it like

It hit you that quickly? No, it was actually before It was like the night before I ate the fried pork chop sandwich and it was like I ate the sandwich and I woke up and I didn't feel right. I felt that little in your stomach, you know, and I shouldn't have gone. But I went anyway because like if you woke up early enough at Tech before Aramark took over, they made these biscuits and they were the best biscuits.

And you could just really go in there. You did it for a biscuit. You could go in there and you could get like six biscuits and some syrup and some butter and you eat the biscuits. and that's just like the biscuits were great like great biscuits like home-cooked biscuits like I love a biscuit so I woke up early it's like I've been up late before so I only got like four hours of sleep I woke up early because I wanted to I didn't want to miss the biscuits they stopped serving breakfast like 8.39 I want to miss the biscuits so I'll go over there I go and the whole

time it's the gurgle the gurgle is getting to me the gurgle is coming I know it's coming but I'm figuring I can eat my biscuits maybe get like a Sprite that I'll settle my stomach. I got in there and it was a little line for the biscuits and I was like nah, I got to get the fuck out of here. So when I turned around, I was just getting to the Chick-fil-A and it happened.

It happened. I remember I never forget. Well, of course you would hope you would never forget. You need to hate biscuits and not pork chops. I never forget because it was early. None of my friends or anybody were there, but there was this white

girl that looked at me and she realized what had happened and she looked at me and she looked and she the horror on her face she was so did she see it or she heard it she saw it and heard it

she what were you wearing it's early like some wind pants like some like some wind pants and she saw it and she heard and she looked and then she's like her face squashed up and then there was like it came down through the wind pants

and I had to like literally I ran and I remember I didn't want to get on the elevator back to my dorm so I took the stairs up was your roommate there when you got back no roommate I had a private room no roommate so I was able to I was able to get up there and it didn't stop like I kept for like a couple of hours like going so I took the day off class and I remember um I took the day off class

and when my whole boys came over to my room and he came in a room he was like nigger what is going on in here you shitting on yourself how do he know because I still had the windpants in the room what's wrong with you I was I didn't feel good you couldn't run and dump those out I I did. I did run and dumped them. I threw them away. They were my favorite pair, too. Pork shop sandwich.

I'm not going to name the restaurant. It's called Grifts. All for a biscuit. For biscuits. I had to get the biscuits in the morning. All for a biscuit. It's tough. I can't get over.

It was tough. It was tough. Pork chop sandwich from Griffs. You just said you weren't going to name it. You just said you were going to name it. Fuck it. It was true. So let's just end it on the show.

Yeah, yeah. For shits and giggles. All right. All right. Mel bag is over. I still remember it. How have we waited this long to tell the story? As many times as I talk about pork chops and the disgust on your face, I get it now.

That was the last time I ate a pork chop. I get it. So every time I'm saying pork chop and you kept going, oh, that big, thick piece of meat, that's what you were really thinking about. It's disgusting. It's nasty. It's making me sick right now. This big piece of pork deep fried. This made me sick.

It made me sick. And I embarrassed myself. Only one person saw you. No. It's not true. It was a grip of people that saw me. Everybody else was pretending like they didn't. But let me tell you something, though.

There was a silver lining in this. Please share. They were all white. And so none of them were a part of my social circle. This never got out. Except for one of my whole boys. This never got out. None of them were part of my social circle.

Like they were, this never got out. I shouldn't even about myself. I can't eat. Like you really were sick that you couldn't hold it in. No. Or find your way to the nearest bathroom.

So I was walking away. And by that time, so here's the thing, I was walking away. By that time, I couldn't, by the time I shitted on myself, I couldn't go into the bathroom then

because it wasn't, going to help me clean myself off. I had to make it back to the room. No, I know. I'm just saying the moment that it was, you decided it was too late. You couldn't find, you couldn't even make it to the bathroom. I couldn't make it to the bathroom. Okay. We're sorry that we're ending on that note, guys, but wow. We're on that note. Wow. You got to unspect the ally of the week? No, I forgot. No, I didn't spend the ally of the week. Listen, I guess those people that were in the restaurant that didn't tell on you. You know what I mean? Can you imagine if social media had existed back then? It would have been a rap for you. Those are your,

unexpected allies. I saw the girl at a, uh, at like a white frat party. That girl, that same girl, maybe like a week later. She had to like she didn't know me. That was good. She probably, she probably thought you looked like somebody else. You know what I mean? That's the thing.

Like, oh, it could have been him. Maybe it was him over there. You know what I mean? You were good. She probably thought it was Carlton. Alfonzo Ribeiro who shitted on himself. Yeah. I look like him.

All right. You guys, I don't know why I felt so uneasy telling that story, but I'm sharing it with the thought words. We are out until next. week, keep your thing caps on. Always remember to learn. Do your research on this vaccine stuff. Do your research on everything and make sure you have the right set of facts. Thank you for Debbie Brown for joining us today on the podcast. I am Van Lathen Jr. I am Rachel and Lindsay. And we are out.