Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Nikki Haley’s Dangerous Rhetoric, Plus Aaron L. Morrison on Transparency in Black Lives Matter

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to Nikki Haley’s dangerous comments at a CNN Town Hall (21:12), before welcoming journalist Aaron L. Morrison to discuss accountability in nonprofit organizations like BLM and Color of Change (44:18). Then, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott prepares to sign a sweeping new bill into law (1:20:05), and the ‘Fresh & Fit’ podcast is discussed for, hopefully, the last time (1:29:14). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Aaron Morrison Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? High learning is on. It is I, Van Lathan, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. $10 rum punch buckets at Applebee's. What? You heard what the hell I said.

I'm talking to everybody right now in the Los Angeles area. I learned something amazing. What I learned today was that Applebee's, this is not an ad, Applebee's has buckets of rum punch for $10, $10, $10 bucket of rum punch, okay? So guess what I'm going to do? What? This Saturday, I'm going to be at the Applebee's in Chatworth. You're going to drive that far away? that's like put that in perspective for people who don't live here you're not just going around the corner

it's hysterical that you think that's far that is far and it's closer to me than it is to you Phil's gym is in woodland hills basically calabasas i'm out there in the 8 1 izzie almost every single day that doesn't mean it's not far it just means you're used to it's still far do you know how Pitbull is Mr. 305. You can call me Mr. 818 if you want it. When I first got to L.A., it was Van Nuys is where I was. That's where I was. When I first got to L.A., you don't even know.

Like, check me out. It's down the street for me. Woodland Hills. Check me out. Silmar. Check me out. Chatsworth. But all up and down, Sherman Way, that's where I'm, you don't even know, man.

Granada. All of that. But shout out to the valley, bro. I love the valley. Shout out to the valley. Shout out to the valley. Guys, that's about an hour away from van. So it's just to put it in a...

That's not an hour away. In... It's not an hour. Unless you leave it, 10 o'clock at night, it's an hour away. It's not an hour. She's not true. This is how far he's driving for the rum bucket or whatever it was called. Whoa.

Whoa. Hold on for a second. Okay. Just be careful. you're a letter away from that being I don't like, okay, whoa.

It's a, it's a, it's a bucket of rum punch. All right. You say, like you said, I'm driving an hour for a rum bucket.

Okay, it's a bucket of rum punch. It's a, whoa. All right. It's just like, calm it down. Real it all the way in,

Rachel. So, have you had it? Or you just heard about it and you're chasing. it. So here's the deal. Every single way that you say this makes it seem untoward. Like, I'm chasing. Then you were driving far to go after. I mean, like, most people, most people don't get up and go for this kind of stuff unless it is the things that you were that I, you said I was one letter right.

See, you don't know how me and Kalika have gotten down. Do you remember the game and anybody can jump in? Remember the game where Steph Curry hit like a 30-foot-3 to beat your ex-boyfriend and them back in like 2016? Remember? Remember the day? Yeah. You're like that, huh?

What about it? So we had decided that day that we were going to find it wasn't the Applebee's. I think it was like a TGI Fridays. Why? Or something because they advertised this like all you can eat apps thing. So we were just like, hey, we're going to go get some apps, some all you can eat apps. And so we went and got some of the apps. And I think we found it.

I think it was TGI Fridays or it was one of those, but we found one in Southgate. which is not far and culturally much different from Hollywood. Shout out to Southgate. Shout out to my people in Southgate. We was out there at Southgate. What I'm saying, it's not about the drive. It's about the actual happening. And I'm telling you right now,

if you live in the L.A. area, Saturday is Rumpunch Day. At Applebee's, Chatsworth. Okay? I don't care what Rachel says. I go to the islands. And when I go to the islands, nothing makes me feel better. Nothing makes me feel better.

Then throwing back a rum punch. I love it. When I come back here, I can't really find a rum punch like that. Yeah. So I saw buckets of run punch. It's going to be Saturday. I'm going to wake up.

I'm going to work out. And about 2.30 or 3 o'clock, I'm going to be coping down. some buckets of rum punch at the Applebee's. And everybody's invited. This is not an ad. You come out there, 10 bucks, I'll buy you a bucket of rum punch. And you can drink with me.

I'm going to be there. How are you getting home? Rachel, there's something called Uber. Rachel, you will come there too. You will come there and have. I'm busy. Rachel, Rachel, are you in town on Saturday? I'm busy.

Are you in town on Saturday? I'm busy. Rachel, I need you to commit to commit to at least one bucket of rum punch. If you get Brian to drink the rucket. Look, even my dogs don't like it. My dogs are upset by it. They don't want me to have the rum punch.

If you get Brian to say yes to the rum punch, when does Miami play on Saturday? Oh, I think they do. Let me look at the schedule. Let me look at the schedule. I think they do. They want a game. Okay, they got their home split.

Let me look at the final schedule. Like, I think they do. Hold on. Let me look. Oh, no, it's on Friday. If I go, if I go to Rum Punch with you on Saturday, will you come to everyday people with me on Sunday? Yep. Hell yeah.

What? Absolutely. I'll definitely go. I'm making a Rum Punch double. Hena. Great. Like, we'll go, I'll, I'll come to everyday people and do some run punch. Were you going with Nina Parker?

Is that who's going? Nina's out of town. But I've never been to everyday people. So I got a table. Fantastic. It's fantastic. I'll go there. Can I invite Serunis?

Who? Serunis Jackson. Who's that? He's a friend of mine. He's an actor. And he was on the insecure show. Serunis is. Six foot seven.

Oh. What's his name on the show? Light skin dude. Yeah. Yeah. Don't act like you don't know who he is. All the women of L.A. have his picture on there.

All the women of L.A. Let me tell you about Seroonis. Serunis is the number one. He was for many years ranked number one sexy nigger of L.A. Everybody was, oh, my God. He's so tall. Like people will come up to me. I hadn't seen him in a while.

I'd be with him. Like, Ben, how are you doing? I'm like, hey, how you're doing? Hey, how are you doing? He's like, you can you introduce me? Come here, Zerunis. Kiss her on the face. Oh my gosh.

But no. So he goes to, he goes to everyday people. And so, yeah, he'll come over to our table and then, you know,

he'll be around our table. And he'll start glowing like prints and a whole not. Yes, our table. No. So look, if I'm Rompuch with you, you have to come.

I don't want you to have a hangover from too much Rompunch. I live by. We can come here and we'll go Rompuch. Ryan will just be the designated driver because he's not going to drink it. Guess what we are this weekend in them streets? All right.

Run punch on Saturday. And guess what? Everybody can come to everyday people on run punch. All the thought warriors. Sunday. Come hang with us. Sunday is a double header. Sunday everyday people.

Saturday run punch. Okay, this weekend's going to be epic. Was last weekend epic for you? What did you do? No. I was, gosh, what did I do this weekend? I feel like I was chill. and the weather was good.

So we were outside by the pool. My girlfriend, Jade, came over with her son. We watched the game, got stuff done. I went to a wonderful event that Natalie Manuel Lee put, was a moderator from him. It was a wonderful conversation with Kendrick Samson, Ilyan Omar. It was really great. It was about like radical vision and joy and arts. And it was a beautiful space.

And I listened to great poetry and great music and great conversation. So I did that on Saturday. But the rest of it, I was chilling. I was chilling. What about you? You were still in Louisiana. You just got back. He was in Louisiana.

Got back last night. Trip took a lot out of me. Okay. I forgot about there's something that goes. on in Louisiana. In Baton Rouge, I called it the cold hot paradox. Okay. Okay.

So I used to get a lot of headaches in Louisiana because of the cold hot paradox. And what it is is that it's so hot outside that everybody blasts their air conditioner. That's true. So whenever you're inside of a building in Baton Rouge, it's freezing. Mm-hmm. Right. Now, in L.A., sometimes you'll even have to run your air conditioner during the day. I turn it on at night.

At night, we're going to get chilly, okay? At night, I got to feel burr. I hate that. It's cold in here. There must be some sleeping in the atmosphere, you know what I mean? But during the day, it's like, whatever, it's temperate. You know, we live in a temperate climate. But back at home, you know, you go.

places and you have to because as soon as you turn the air off even in the car you're like now I'm too hot then you turn the air on you're like now I'm too cold especially now so I had a headache for a lot of the time that I was home and I also also I worked out every day great but also I ate once a day but I made that one meal count I'm not I'm not I'm not playing with y'all well it would be upsetting if you went there and didn't have the food I got I went to my grandmother's house Sunday and my mom I love you mom love you mom love you Ebony got to see everybody I bought my my little brother a PlayStation 5 I handed out cash money to my nieces and nephews just hitting them with just just being an uncle being an uncle right

um I will talk about my little brother in a second but uh I go I get to my grandmother's house Sunday you know it's the day they were about to leave and come back and you know I was I'm always ready to get back to L.A. whenever I leave any place. I'm like, it's time to go home. I'm time to get back to L.A. My grandmother goes, hey, Van, would you, you know, maybe like, I don't know, it's like 12 noon?

She said, Van, you want something to eat? It's like, yeah. And she comes back with a bowl full of ice cream and cake. They had made they had made a seven-up cake. Oh. And, yes, They had made a seven-up cake and she goes into a bluebell ice cream and I just sit there and I eat.

And I just, if it was a movie scene, it wouldn't have been even me eating. You'd have looked over and it had been a little fat 11-year-old version of me with a spoon. And my hat and my baseball hat on just eating it and everybody. And my mother and my grandmother and my sister look at me with such unadulterated love. It's they like, so I didn't, they weren't aware that. like I was coming home. They didn't know. Oh, wait, you surprised them.

Oh, yeah. Maybe you said that. I forgot. So I walk into the house and my grandmother goes, what the fuck? And then she just, and then she just starts crying. And she cried.

Then mom wasn't there yet. And so the mom walks in the room and I scare her. And she goes, ah, ah! And then, like, we just all loved on each other. And it was great. and Kalika Kalika is such a great travel companion because she absorbs the energy of my mother and my grandmother

and it's a lot of energy and she just gives it back and plays off and it's good for her to see Baton Rouge. I took her to South Baton Rouge across the tracks. We got to see some young men with guns with ski masks which was very interesting for Kalika. Yeah, we drove down the River Road

until we got to Roosevelt. We made a right on Roosevelt. So it was in the south across the tracks. And we see some young brothers coming out. I'm sure they were coming out to greet a car and have a good time. And they had guns with ski masks on. Yeah, it's Maden Rouge. Come on now.

Catch the feeling. Fillion, Scudge. Excuse me. One of the 10 most dangerous cities in America. Jeez. Well, ski masks and guns. When it's hot outside, you're talking about people wearing ski mask and shit.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't like Dallas is a picnic, nigger. Y'all get it popping out there, too. Like, it's like my wife. We in the top 10? Y'all, if not, if Dallas isn't in the top 10 is only because it's such a big city because it's harder for those big cities to really get in the top 10.

Like you would think Chicago would be there. You would think that New York would be in there. You would think, but they're not really because those places have areas where there's like little to no crime. Right. Like if you got a city between half a million to 1.5 in terms of the people, that's the sweet spot for the crime. to be able to touch every part of the city. Like, hey, you might get fucked up. You know, although Atlanta's huge and it could go down at any point.

No, seriously. Atlanta's huge. And they was like, I was like, I was saying that, I was saying at the wall, the wall door for Atlanta. By the way, I'm not shit on Atlanta. How is that? I'm going to be there next week. Literally at that.

Yes. The hotel? Yeah. Wiggity, wiggity, whack. Oh, I'm going to tell him to change it. That's all. We move into the St. Regis. That's all I needed to hear.

Wiggity, wiggily whack. You know, but I'll be honest with you, though. It's like there's only a couple cities in America that are good hotel cities. Like. L.A. is a good hotel city. L.A. is a good hotel. Vegas is obviously a good hotel city. Vegas is an amazing hotel city.

Oh, my what? Okay. Vegas. It's the whole, it's part of Miami. is a great hotel city and New York is a great hotel city. I would say that Chicago is right there too. Other than that, you can go to hotels like in other places. And these hotels, even if they're older, they're not that nice.

Like they're not super nice. Like even in New Orleans or different places like that, you go to some of the super nice hotels. They're older. Like they're not. Like the Ritz in New Orleans, it's like, what? It's not, oh, we sound, okay, we got. It was, that was the final straw.

Okay. I'm sorry. The point is, is that you don't need to be spending your money all on these expensive hotels. Because that's the point. It's really not worth it is what we're trying to. We're wasting our money. Don't do that. That's what I'm trying to say.

Yes. That's, yeah, what you find you, without, if you. you're not in one of those places, find you a nice boutique hotel that's chic, that smells good in the lobby, and do your thing. Because, like, you know, you're at the place in Atlanta,

and it's, the staff is amazing there. I'll say that. The staff is fantastic, because it's right there in Buckhead. So the staff, the staff is great. But as far as the hotel,

it's like, you know, it's not what you did, you know, nah, wasn't that, wasn't that great. And look,

I really, I'm, that I wasn't trying to be a snob so I'm sorry but I've been I had to travel for my job I say to a lot of hotels different places um all right we got to get into the show Nikki Haley man we do have to talk about her you like her no no no no no no we're not going to continue this narrative anytime you mention a Republican candidate

you start off with saying you like them you're into them you're excited about them I'm not Definitely not Nikki Haley. Yeah. We don't even know what Nikki Haley truly stands for. She's a flip-flopper. But she's talking now.

She's talking now. Go ahead. Talk about it. She had a town hall. You watched it. You enjoyed it. Just like the, I watched it.

I watched the whole thing. And it's a thirdy. Flipity flop, just like the fish at Tony Seafood on Plank Road. I want to tell Bad Rouge how much I love you. I love the chimes. I love Tony's seafood. I love Boil and Rule.

I love Government Street. I love LSU. I love Southern. I love Gardea. I love the bottom. I love the top. I love McKinley. I love my hometown.

On the other side of this break, we're going to talk about Nikki Haley. We also have an interview with Aaron Morrison of the Associated Press, someone that covers grassroots black organizations and the movement itself, civil rights, all of that. We're going to talk to him about some of the controversy surrounding organizations like Black Lives Matter, Global Network Foundation, and. color of change to talk about how much of a cuck I'm being for black organizations.

And what's a way for us to nutritionally criticize places that are supposed to be operating on and in our behalf? Aaron Morris is coming later. On the other side of this, Nikki Hanley. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away.

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Yeah, before we get to Nikki Haley, I just want to let you know, I've signed up for notifications about when Apple's Vision Pro is going on. So it's the Apple virtual reality. I can't believe it. I can't believe what it looked like. So wait, what is, what is it do? I'm not really familiar with VR world. It's a VR. It's a VR rig.

So you can look at stuff and you can be immersed into a different world. You know what I'm saying? Okay, but how is that different from like the Facebook one? I mean, it's a competitor. Oculus. It's a competitor. So the way it works typically in American. capitalism is one person comes out with the product and then somebody else goes, I'll come out

with a better problem. I guess I just like, I guess because that world is so foreign to me. I'm like, what do you do? Do you play games in it? Do you walk around in this world? And like, you know, I feel like Donnie has something to say here. You're in France one day. Oh, I was going to say that it, I think it also has AR capabilities, which is where like brings things into your real. Wait, wait. Wait. Wait. So like, like. Like, I can have this thing on and I'm sitting in my living room and I see that, but things are happening. I don't like it. I'm just, I don't like it.

Donnie, what were you going to say? No, I was just going to say, yeah, that's exactly it. Like, in the trailer I saw, they bring Mickey Mouse into your living room or if you're watching an NBA game. You can watch the replay like on your table, like from like a God level angle. It's wild stuff. Yeah, I'll have one. have one. They say that it's not going to be cheap. But I'm going to try it. I'm going to see, I'm going to see what they have. And I'm going to have one.

You're never going to come out of that world. Nah, probably not. Speaking of coming out of the world, Nikki Haley is coming out into the world as a candidate for president. Oh, Jesus Christ, transition king. She did a town hall on the brand new Republican News Network. CNN. No, CNN is covering

the Republican challengers for the presidency and they did town hall with Nikki Haley in Iowa. Did you watch this town hall? Nope. I saw it. I thought about it.

And then I said, nah. I watched Trump. I just couldn't. I'm sorry. Yeah. I watched it. I watched it.

I think as soon as I didn't see it when it first aired. I might have been on a plane when it first aired. I saw it when it, I saw it on replay this morning. I watched it in its entirety. And the standout clip or the most controversial clip, should I say, from the town hall had already been making the rounds when I watched it. speaking about that clip, here it is right here, presidential candidate, Nikki Haley. What does it mean to you? How do you define woke?

There's a lot of things. I mean, you want to start with biological boys playing in girls sports. That's one thing. The fact that we have gender pronoun classes in the military now. I mean, all of these things that are pushing what a small minority want on the majority of Americans, it's too much. It's too much. I mean, the idea that we have biological boys playing in girls sports. It is the women's issue of our time. My daughter ran track in high school. I don't even know how I would have that conversation with her.

How are we supposed to get our girls used to the fact that biological boys are in their locker rooms? And then we wonder why a third of our teenage girls seriously contemplated suicide last year? We should be growing strong girls, confident girls.

Shit. Uh, Rachel? And this is why I didn't watch. because I didn't want to be subjected to things like this or anything else that Nikki Haley was going to spew out of her mouth. We talked about how these Republican candidates, we talked about what's going to be on the ballot and the things that they're going to argue. So it's no surprise that Nikki Haley is taking the opportunity as soon as she can to talk about trans children because that's a big talking point or pushing point for the Republican Party. the troubling thing, in addition to the whole way that she was talking about, to me, is that she says it's one of the most important women's rights issues of our time.

When we're dealing, when we're in a world where Dobbs exist and the fact that they are governing our reproductive rights and telling us what we can do with our body and our uterus, how dare you say that when our young women, us now and young women are going to grow up in a society where they don't have autonomy over their body. That's the issue if you're talking about women's rights that we need to talk about. Not these made-up issues with statistics that aren't true. That is not why there's a high level or an increased level of suicide risk amongst teen girls. It's not because they have trans children in schools or boys playing or biological boys playing women's sports.

That's not the issue. They take a small thing. and they magnify it, and that's not what it is. If you want to talk about increased level of suicide with young women, let's talk about the society that women live in and the way women are treated in this society, the way that they are supposed to look, the way that they are supposed to be,

these unrealistic beauty standards on social media with filters. You know, when we were kids, it was magazines and TV commercials. Now everywhere you look, you have these unrealistic, ideas of what beauty is. That's the pressure that's put on young teens. That's what makes them have anxiety and depression and, you know, compare themselves to other people to an unhealthy level where they have issues greater than we did growing up. That's the real issue. So this bothers me so much, one, the way that she captured this, but two, you're lying. That's not it. And so the fact that you're spewing out this misinformation is extremely problematic when there is a real

issue of suicide. There is a real issue of growing depression with young kids, but that's not the reason why. And if you really, if you really were serious about it, you would address it in the correct way rather than politicizing it. Yeah. Look, so I watched the entire exchange after that Jake Tapper comes back and gives her some information. there are a group of teens that are facing an epidemic almost of suicide, and that's LGBTQ plus teens. They are three times more likely to contemplate suicide than their peers, six and ten students in 2021, who had same-sex partners considered suicide, compared with 26 percent of students that had opposite sex partners. Now, obviously, we're talking about specifically trans Americans right here.

But the reality is, according to the data from the Trevor Project, we know that there are a group of kids that are at a heightened vulnerability to be suicidal and to harm themselves. And those are the kids that you put on the fringes and outsides of society when you don't let them step into who they are. all right um there are a couple of things that that are wrong with the statement one thing is that it completely dismisses the intense amount to your point of societal dysfunction that's going on for kids in the last three years okay i was just around a bunch of teenagers and the teenagers are telling me how sad they are they're telling me how sad they are because they live in the world where their innocence is stripped from them because of fears of their death and because of what COVID did to the social structures that that they relied on.

You know, at that age, kids are oftentimes mean to each other, but they also need each other to kind of find their way through this crazy thing called maturing and puberty. A lot of them didn't have that. And they were forced to sit in rooms and kind of figure it. out and kind of have connection on FaceTime when they didn't really know what connection really was yet, right? And it's weighing on a lot of them. You're seeing that effect, black kids particularly in a way because a lot of the places that

they come from didn't have the resources to continue to reach out to them while they were in these spots. So our kids are a little mentally strained right now. Yeah. They are a little spiritually strained right now. I'm not going to deny that. I haven't heard one bit of compelling evidence that what she said has anything to do with it. And before you make an assertion like that on a platform like that, you have damn well been able to be able to back it up.

Things like this to me are disqualifying from not just being the president, from holding any office. Yeah. When you just take such a big issue, think about this. Think about how breathtaking that was. When you take a big issue, like suicidal ideation in teen girls, and you say it's because of trans people. Mm-hmm. This is the playbook for American villainization and for making one group vulnerable. your kid wants to kill themselves because of the existence of this person.

Like, that to me demonstrates the same level of indoctrination in terms of the pernicious part of identity politics that has existed on the right that Nikki Haley is subject to that. It's everyone else. Hey, these people are going to kill you. Remember that. And for everyone out there right now, that's us as well. That's always been us. Birth of a Nation, the first motion picture ever made,

showed black men in the light that were going to rape white women, take them, do all kinds of crazy things to them, and whatever. Every single time, hey, these are the people that want to kill you. You have to be hypervisional against them.

You know what that turns into? That turns into kill them before they kill you. Right. And I just, when I heard her say that, I know she's not the brightest bulb in the, entire closet. But when I heard her say that, I thought, like, that's profound. That's profoundly irresponsible, dangerous and hateful to say that this one specific thing that's going on is making

young girls want to kill themselves. Yeah. It's, and, and for, there are a lot of people out there that are critical of Jake Tapper and the way that he handled this. I will say that if you watch it in its entirety, I wouldn't say that he necessarily said, hey, stop. That's a It's not true. That's not what he did. But if you're watching his entirety, there is a rebuttal after that to where Jay Tapper comes on and he says, hey, well, these are the numbers from the Trevor Project about the prevalence of suicide amongst LGBTQ youth.

Do you care about those kids? Shouldn't we make a world where those kids feel safe and where those kids don't want to harm themselves or feel like they're included in society? obviously Nikki Haley didn't have anything smart to say about that but there was something on the other end of that whether or not it's too tepid for anyone you can make your own decision to where Jay Tapper did address the children that Nikki Haley made responsible for

the suicides of young girls it's just crazy like kind of where we are it really is it's it's crazy where we are also want to say happy pride month happy pride month happy pride month to the community Yes. Yeah. You know what?

Come out to Applebee's. Or everyday people on Sunday. We love y'all. We love y'all. You know what? Come out to Applebee's. God damn it. Come out.

You know what? We'll protect you guys. Like we'll be right there with you. Come to the goddamn Applebee's and have a drink. Jesus Christ. I wish there was Applebee's in West Hollywood now. Yeah, because Chattworth is so far. Yeah.

get out of here. You know, they don't, you know, they don't really have those types of places inside the LA city limits. Yeah. You can't really get them. That's my beef with L.A. is growing up, you know, like a Louisiana and a Texas, there aren't drive-thrues the way that I want them to, where I want them to be, and there aren't those chain restaurants.

Now, I'm in the valley, and I'm closer to, like, the Burbank. So I see it. I'm like, ooh, there's a BJ's. I didn't even know those existed here in L.A. There's a Cracker Barrel. I love Cracker Barrel. Say what you want. about Crackerel. I love it.

Oh, we all know you love Crackerel. Just guess I set myself up for that one. Anyways, that's my one issue with them. Yeah, anyway, go ahead. Move on. Forget it. Nikki Haley, also, there was also a lot of talk. And let me tell you another disgusting part of the town hall. So Nikki Haley went on a little Martin Luther King, right? in what way

and it was about about taking down the Confederate flag from the flag of South Carolina from the Capitol you know I'll tell you we had that horrific shooting in Charleston that killed nine amazing souls and it happened at a time

where it was on the heels of Ferguson and I was so worried our state was going to fall apart and the national media came in and they wanted to make it about race, they wanted to make it about the death penalty, they wanted to make it about guns. And I strong-armed them at the time. And I said, there will be a time and place we can have those debates. But right now we need to put to rest nine amazing souls.

And I tried to protect them. She talked about how Dillon Roof walked into the church, pray with the people. And then we, of course, no committed a heinous, despicable subhuman crime where he executed nine people. She talked about how that, how that moment inspired her to take the flag down. Because after that, she was asked about whether or not she was going to do it. She was not committed.

Then she saw a picture of Dylan Roof. Dylan Roof, draped in the flag. And she was like, we got to take the flag down. And how she went to everyone and she gave this impassioned type of deal about how the flag was able to be removed

and whether or not people would support her. She knew she had to do it. She told people if they didn't want to support her, that's cool. But she went and she got that done after that happened. You know, Rachel, I'm watching it. and I'm going into the town hall knowing what she said, essentially blaming suicide on trans youth.

So I'm already, I'm already knowing that this is a person who is unfit for not just higher office in terms of the presidency, but higher office in terms of the governor because she doesn't know what her words mean. she doesn't realize that by saying that the young girls want to kill themselves because of trans people that they have proximity to, that that endangers those trans people and also puts a battery in the back of people that might want to harm them because they're making those trans people responsible for the death of young girls. It's so disgusting. Okay. And then when I saw this, I was like, so. there's an American orthodoxy that exists that demands the blood of black people

for any type of societal change that black people want. Like we have to bleed for it. Like, I don't know what white people don't get. It's like, you know, Trump is bad

after January sixth. Take the flag down off the state house after nine black people are murdered and somebody is wrapping themselves in the flag. You know, civil rights after black people

are getting bit and killed and lynched and all of that. And I'm like, are y'all fucking dumb? Are you dumb? No, they're not. I wish I could have been host in the situation because I'd have been like, you mean to tell me that it took nine

fresh bodies, fresh ones, for you to realize that the Confederate flag is a symbol of the death of black people, of black enslavement and torture and rape, that that's what they use it for? So you need fresh bodies. So for everything else that's going on, it's not that these things don't mean. You just want us to die again. And I'm watching it.

I'm like, yo, she thinks she's spinning up here. And everybody's like, yeah, Nikki, what bravery you showed by taking a fucking Confederate battle flag off the state house in the fucking 2010s. It's like. Oh, my God. It's almost like... It's almost even worse

adding on to that because everything you're saying is right. It's almost as if she was waiting for the opportunity where she could politicize it. Yeah, she's like in a state that supports that, but she could make herself a white savior by saying, look what I did when I realized this. It's like I'm going to ignore the history and meaning.

I'm going to ignore the cry. of the black community who have constantly been fighting to get this down, who've been telling you what this means. It's not until I realize and I have my white savior moment that it becomes something. And that's what I feel like. I feel like, one, I'm not going to give it to her because I'm for all the reasons as you said, but even more so, this is a politicized moment to me. She did that to me to boost her own image.

She didn't care. You didn't care before. You don't care now. So this book right here that I'm holding up is called the Thanos imperative, right? So these are people on the cover of the book, Moon Dragon. You got Thanos Silver Surfer, Star Lords down there. It's like you're speaking a different language to me. Rocket Raccoon.

This is the book, okay? All right, this is a book that I like to read, you know? It's very good. Guardians in the book. A lot of people are in it, right? It's a comic book. Um, don't, don't, don't try. No, I'm legit asking a question.

I said, the annos is in it. So yeah, it's a comic book. I like to read it. Okay. If, if I had a problem with you, I wouldn't shove this book in your face. Do you know why? Why? Because me shoving this book in your face wouldn't mean anything.

You wouldn't know what this book meant. Right. Okay. Because this book doesn't mean anything to you. And other than my entertainment, it doesn't mean anything to me. Now, let's just say that there was a symbol that you understood meant that you're lesser and I'm better than you. Like a flag. That's something that I might hold up to you to say, hey, nigger, look at this.

All right. Hey, dark E, look at this. These colors don't run. There are various things on my desk that that wouldn't have any effect on you because those things don't have any meaning that way. They're ineffectual or ineffective, should I say, because you have no connection to them historically. The Confederate flag wasn't then or ever since they first started flying the battle flag. after the Civil War as a way to intimidate black people, never has it been something that is agnostic to black people.

It's always been something unlike this book, by putting it in your face, you're going to be like, who are those people, that we know what that means. What I'm trying to say is when I hear politicians like her, what they are essentially doing when they stand by these flags, they're culturally codifying the hate. They're saying, hey, us people who are supposed to be mainstream, it's the same thing that she did when she blamed suicide on trans people.

She is culturally and politically codifying hate saying it's okay to fuck these people over. My question is how many trans people are going to have to die for Nikki Haley to realize that what she said wasn't okay? Because it took nine black bodies for her to change her opinion, fresh ones. Forget about the millions that died, the thousands that died. It took nine fresh bodies. How many fresh trans kids are going to have to die for her to realize that what she's doing now? How many people do we have to spare? And I watched it.

And to be honest with you, beyond these two incidents, it was unremarkable. She's a stuffed suit. She offers nothing. Like there's not a compelling reason to even be discussing Nikki Haley in her town hall other than the breathtaking. Lack of perspective that she had in both that statement and this one. Because she offered nothing new, nothing you haven't heard, nothing that's that that's smart or cutting edge in any way yeah but what she did offer up was the same old bumbling bullshit from people who don't understand how much power their words have

it was well said whatever okay let's do this let's get to the interview with erin morrison from the associate press we're going to talk about some of these black organizations and how fair it is or foul to criticize them for some of the things that they've been criticized for. You guys, I've heard some of the things. I haven't been on that putrid Reddit in it forever, but I've heard some of the criticisms, and I think the criticisms that you have about me in this situation are valid. They're valid criticisms, and I'm taking them to heart. So the reason why we bring it air and on is so that we can have a conversation about the best way for me to rectify my critical eye on some of these organizations and to set some standards

in the way that we discuss them in a holistic and nutritious way. So Aaron will be on the other side of this break. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support.

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We have somebody joining us today. An award winning multimedia journalist. It's based in New York City. A national race and ethnicity writer for the Associated Press. His name is Aaron Morrison. He typically writes about race, civil rights, politics, criminal justice, reform, and grassroots social movements. The reason why we have Aaron on today is because we've talked a little bit on the podcast about movements like the BLM, related by produce colors, a BLM, GNF, and about color of change. And some of the roles and controversies surrounding the inner workings of those organizations as of late. I thought it was important to have somebody with knowledge of how charitable organizations and grassroots organizations are supposed to work on the podcast to discuss which parts of this might have to do with dysfunction at those organizations that is, I guess, part and parcel, which is part of the course. And which part of this is stuff that should really concern the people that these organizations are intending.

help a little long winded there but that's kind of going to be the gist of the conversation Aaron thank you for joining us brother we appreciate you being on the show today so I'll start there um I've got myself on this podcast in trouble in this podcast before all right and I'll be honest with you I have defended color of change I have defended BLMGNF because a part of my worldview says hey black organizations trying to do good black things for good black people sometimes they don't all do it in the right way. They're fledgling. They're new.

But a lot of people have said, no, we must hold these organizations accountable for their workplace actions and for the way they raise money and spend money. To someone like me, who has come at it from my, from my purview and my lens,

somebody like you that's an expert in this, what would you say to me? Well, I think two things can be true at the same time. that, you know, black-led organizations, particularly non-profits that come into rather quickly immense amounts of money, do face a heightened scrutiny over how they then use those donations, those resources to impact their communities. You know, with Black Lives Matter being what it is, being such a lightning rod in the space of socializing. social justice, but also in American politics, it was kind of inevitable that this organization was going to come under intense scrutiny, not just for its beliefs and the things that it advocates

for, but also for, you know, the amount of money that they announced, you know, and revealed, you know, that they received. And, you know, there were going to be people who, first of all, believe that they never deserve any type of money in the first place. But then there are also those people who are going to believe that why should they be the ones to have that type of responsibility for doling out philanthropic dollars to black Americans? So, you know, that sort of answers your question. It's like two things can be true. But those feelings don't often equate to what I found in my reporting to be proof of, you know, the allegations that they've been misusing the funds or that there have swindled the funds.

That's where we're, you know, finding the push and pull over the discussion of a Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation and any other Black-led organization, those that have risen to prominence in the Black Lives Matter movement era. So unlike Van, I've been a little bit more, oh, okay, sorry, dog issues over here. I was saying, unlike Van, I've been a little bit more critical with some of the information that's come out about, like, color of change and BLM. And I'm wondering, for, for you, someone who works in this, write on this, report on this, do you find any of the fitter, do you believe that the criticism is fair? I think the criticism is fair when organizations

black or white fail to sort of adhere to the best practices of transparency. The thing about it is when you become a public organization and you are dealing with public money, I don't mean taxpayer dollars. I mean money that has been donated to your organization to support the aims of and then the things that you advocate for. There is a level of accountability that should be baked into that. And one way to be held accountable publicly is to be transparent about not only what money is coming in and how you're going to spend that money.

You know, there is, you can't really say, oh, we're a fledgling organization and give us some time. Like, yeah, after a while, it's like, okay, now it's time for you to produce evidence and proof and results for this trust that the community the public has given. So, you know, it's not so much about being hard on these organizations. It's just being fair in how you go about asking for that transparency, go about asking for that accountability. And that's not my opinion.

That's just like best practices and standards of philanthropy. These organizations, when they are non-profits, they are by law asked to provide the public with an accounting of how they've spent their money, how much they pay their executives, how much they spend on programming, and what percentage of their money that they spend on things that directly benefit the people. If that information is below the standard, then yeah, that's a fair reason to ask some tough questions about what they're doing with the money. And again, that's not my opinion. That's just like industry standard stuff. So, yeah, I mean, that sort of answers your question, Rachel. Mm-hmm. Based upon your opinion and your expert opinion in the work that you've done, you've seen the story.

I'm sure you've read all the reporting that's come out about Black Lives Matter, and particularly Patrice Cullors. and the inner workings of the organization over there. Do you suppose there's some sort of grift going on with that situation? Let me be absolutely clear of the allegations of grifting or of misuse of funds, mismanagement of funds has been reviewed by independent auditors when it pertains to Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation. And there is no proof that those allegations are true. Now, I should restate that.

The allegations are unproven. And I often like to say this to people who I talk to just in regular conversation. You know, I'm a journalist who deals with fact and truth. And please believe the moment there is proof that an organization like Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation or any black-led organization, the moment there's proof of mismanagement, misuse, fraud, grifting, it is my duty to report that.

So the moment I have proof of that, I am going to come forward with that because that is not only in the public interest, that is in direct contradiction to the idea of justice that we would shield black organizations from being held. held accountable when they are indeed violating the public trust. So, you know, to answer your question, Van, yeah, I mean, I can't say that there's grifting because just based on the review

of the publicly available documents, there's nothing to suggest that that is even remotely true. Now, have they set themselves up or left room for criticism based on the structure of their nonprofit, the way in which they are running the organization? Sure, you could argue that. And I've reported that in my own reporting for the Associated Press. Last year, I had a nonprofit expert, you know, essentially tell me, look, if there's no evidence here that they are misusing the funds, but they kind of set themselves up for this idea that very few people are making decisions about tens of millions of dollars, which, yeah, that leaves rooms for, room for criticism.

And until they plug those holes and build out the infrastructure, there's always going to be folks who believe that, you know, that there's not a whole lot of democracy. There's not a whole lot of public levers for, for accountability within that organization. Can I ask one, can I ask one? Can I ask one follow up? how are they getting it wrong? And the reason why I asked that is because there's been a fixation, and rightly so, about some of the optics surrounding how the money is being spent.

There was a house that was bought that was the central focus of a lot of the reporting. There was the fact that people in Patrice Cullors' family were giving jobs and giving postings. the latest reporting that came out about it talked about the fact that of the $90 million that had been raised it seemed that 30% of it, 33% of it, had been doled out. And that some of the organizations that have been doled out too were people that people that were hot,

the higher ups that Black Lives, the BLMGNF knew. Okay. Some of that stuff seems like, well, I can understand how they only gave out $30 million of 90, million dollars. I mean, the money goes to various places. Other parts of it look untoward. If you're looking at

everything that's come out, how should they be doing it? What are they doing wrong? Again, it's not my place to say that they are doing something wrong. I can only say what they are doing that is outside of

industry standard when it comes to nonprofits. So, you know, one One thing that experts will say about, you know, an organization like Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation is that they rely heavily on consultants. One of the consultants based on a tax filing from last year, one of their consultants, who is also a member of the board of Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, was paid over $2 million in consultancy fees. And that $2 million went to his firm, this is Bowers Consultant, and that's Shalomia Bowers, I should name him. You know, his firm essentially received $2 million, more than $2 million to provide staffing support, fundraising support, and a lot of other services that helped Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation get off the ground. around after it saw that $90 million pour in after the 2020 protests.

So I asked an expert, and they said, well, that is not that unusual for a new nonprofit. New nonprofits, very small nonprofits, once they get their tax exempt status, will often hire an outside firm to come in and just help them set up shop, provide this type of support that an in-house staff would provide if they were more mature. foundation. But because they weren't and because they struggled with who should run it, you know, you mentioned Patrice Cullors, being one of the co-founders of Black Lives Matter, at one time was the executive director of the foundation. But once she was in a position to transition out of leadership there, she brought in Bowers consulting to provide what Black Lives

Matter really didn't have at that point, which was an in-house staff to run just the day-to-day business of the foundation. And that means that, yeah, making sure you got the accountants right and lawyers and people who can run the actual programming that is supposed to benefit the public. So, you know, that's one area of criticism if we're talking about like the reliance on consultants. And the argument there would be how long do you rely on those consultants before it starts to look like, yeah, it is just a few people benefiting from the, you know, the, you know, this endowment that the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation now has. So I think, I think, you know, give it a couple of years.

And if we still see the structure of Black Lives Matter to be the same as it is right now, again, that does not necessarily mean criminality or fraud. It just means that, you know, this idea of growth and maturing of a foundation may not have happened if they're still operating the same way that they have been in the last couple of years. Aaron, something you just said, and I think this goes to, because Van, I believe asked how, it's like why. We know that as black people, we are scrutinized more heavily in every single aspect of what we do in both personal and professional in this society, in the world.

So having a black-led charity, you also know that they're going to be heavily scrutinized and all eyes are going to be on them, especially in the aftermath of, uh, 2020, George Floyd, and the fact that they reported how much money came into them. And something you said about when Patrice Cullors left, she brought in this consulting firm, which helped them get more of a structure and an in-house staff. Why was that not done before? Because I know one of the issues that people had was the governance structure of BLM and the fact that, you know, there wasn't really an executive director or maybe there was.

and her, it appeared based on the structure, she had more power, more voting power than anyone else. And there was no in-house staff. Why was that not done while she was there, but then after? And if you don't know, I'll do a follow-up. Oh, so I can say, I can start to answer that question a bit. There had been a managing director of Black Lives Matter of Global Network Foundation prior to Patrice coming on as the executive director. That person had been at odds with the grassroots organizers of Black Lives Matter across the country. So as things really, this is actually prior to 2020. So as things were really starting to grow for Black Lives Matter as, I hate to say as a brand,

but like as an organization that people could sort of point to as leading a generational movement towards justice, you know, they brought it. Black Lives Matter did bring in people. who they thought could help to sort of build the plane as they were flying it, so to speak. And what ended up happening is some of the folks that they brought in in the earlier days were at odds with the grassroots organizers who felt like they needed to have more of a say in how things were being built, how this organization was going to mature into the future, into a legacy organization, so to speak.

So once they were at an impasse with, this former managing director, that managing director was essentially, you know, asked to resign. And that's when Patrice Cullors came in to briefly, let's be clear, briefly lead the organization. And at the time that she was leading the organization, that's when she hired the consulting firm to come in and build out some of that infrastructure. So to answer the question, there had been attempts to create that staffing, that in-house staffing, that Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation needed, but that didn't materialize

because of some internal conflict between organizers on the ground level and folks at the national organization. So color of change, are you familiar with some of the recent criticisms surrounding color of change? And have you read some of the reporting on that? I have read some of the reporting on that.

I am not as familiar with the inner workings of color change. I just want to say that up front. But, you know, certainly, you know, the nonprofit world, there's a lot in the same way that you might see dysfunction and problems with management in. public, you know, or corporate organizations, the same thing can exist in nonprofits. And I think what what we see with the color of change story with the allegations that came out in the story that was recently published, I think it's, it's evidence of, you know, the, the push and pull between maintaining sort of a, your mission statement, your, your, your mission statement, you're forward-facing for the people fighting white supremacy sort of image and a reality behind the scenes

where everything may not be as neat as you would want the public to believe. So that's all I can say about that. I don't have my own independent reporting of the inner workings of color of change, But I do know that just like Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation and other organizations in the movement space, there's drama. You know, and let me be clear. I'm not saying there's drama is one thing. And then allegations of sexual assault and other things and sexual harassment, that's a whole nother thing. That's a criminal matter.

So I don't want to equate those two things, drama and criminal allegations. But, you know, in the same way. that that can exist in any, you know, white-led, you know, corporate organization, the same thing can happen in, in, you know, organizations that are founded and run by folks in our community. And again, it really comes down to like transparency and accountability and your willingness to be held to a standard. That someone might say not a higher standard than anybody else, but just to a standard that is fair, equitable, and, you know, and at the end of the day, shows your organization to be one that is doing what its mission statement says. Yeah, we have Black Lives Matter,

G&F, you have color of change, and there seems to be more negative than positive things that have been said about these national organizations that we know have done a lot for the community, but the narrative right now appears to be negative. And I believe it was your reporting, and I'm sorry if I'm getting this wrong, that showed how much BLMG and F brought in this year, this past year, versus the years before. Their assets are significantly less. They spent more money than they brought in. I'm wondering, how do we restore this to let people know that, yes, there's been,

drama, as you said, yes, there have been issues, but there's still the intent and the meaningful work is still being done. And how do you think that can happen one? And then the other part is, do you think that the loss that BLMGNF suffered is because of the drama or just because, you know, people aren't as excited to, for lack of better words, about racial justice as they were in 2020 and around that time. Absolutely. So, you know, my reporting, my recent reporting, you know, states that they, that Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation raised $9 million in the last fiscal year that they, they are reporting to the IRS. Now, that is less than the 79 million that they reported in the previous fiscal year. But we have to take this all in context. You know,

If you're reporting 79 millions off of coming out of the racial justice, you know, uprising, really, that we saw in 2020 and 2021, you cannot expect then in 2021 to 2020, late 2021 to 2022 that you would raise anywhere near that much money. Why? Because we know that the unique circumstances of what was going on in 2020, did not continue on in 2021 and 2022. So it's somewhat like common sense to know that like you're not going to raise $79,000 every year. Like that's just not going to happen. Because then it would be Black Lives Matter, LeBron James. Exxed.

You know what I mean? It would be like they're not going to do that every single year. That was like super normal because of what? happened with George. But nine million just seems a lot, like a huge dive. And I'm wondering, is it contributed to some of the other things that we've discussed? I think that, okay, let me just not say what I will pine on this. I can tell you what my reporting says. My reporting says that, yes, these were unique factors that contributed to an explosion for racial justice organizations is written large in 2020.

So we're not just talking about Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation. We're talking about nearly every racial justice organization that was out there in the field doing work and organizing and were visible. They received the hundreds of millions of dollars that was donated not only from people's pockets, but from other organizations of silent donors who came forward and said, I'm donating, you know, this $100,000 here or a half a million dollars here to your organization to do the work so that we don't have to see any more George Floyd's. That happened in 2020. That's not going to happen in 2022. It's certainly not going to happen this year. I'm not, I don't have Chris of all, but I'm just saying, like, you know, this is this is not the environment that we're in right now where we would see that type of public support and swell of support for racial justice organizations. So that's number one. But number one. Number two, I think that if people were willing to continue donating to organizations like Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, and they saw some of the reporting that came out about the purchase of property, about family members of founders of Black Lives Matter, benefiting and having contracts with the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, when that information is not put into context, that can create the

perception that, yes, something's not right within the organization. And so would it be shocking or surprising that the level of support that Black Lives Matter then receives from donors after that reporting comes out, that it would drop? Yeah, that's not surprising at all. But again, I think it's just important that we always lead with that context that we're not in 2020 right now. We are not in early 2021. This is well removed, three years removed from the murder of George Floyd and therefore the environment for raising and funding racial justice movement organizations is entirely different. And so as long as we acknowledged that, I think I started our chat by saying like two things

can be true at the same time, that some people have soured on supporting Black Lives Matter since 2020 and that we're just in a different time. And so there's no way we would see that same level of support going to an organization Black Lives Matter Global Network or any other Black-led organization that's baked in to their mission is fighting white supremacy. I really appreciate your time. And I'm going to ask you one last question. Let's start with something that I've realized. I've realized that I cannot hate white supremacy more than I love black people.

I love black people with all of my heart. and sometimes I am such I'm so vigilant about white supremacists and people attacking black people that I have to remember that sometimes there are black people to protect be it from black lives

inside of black lives matter inside of color of change and I have to make sure that I that I prioritize those people and not just who might be writing about them or whatever and not saying it's Sean or any oldly people have weapons of white supremacy just saying that what happens, Aaron, is that when I see these things brought up, I see them brought up on Fox News.

I see them brought up on Breitbart. I see this stuff used to weaponize and paint black people and black-led organizations as people who are grifting, as people who are taking advantage of the pain, surrounding George Floyd's death, or Mike Brown's death, or Tamir Rice's death. and I get upset because, like I've said before, this person only wants to, this person is a race hustler, this person is a race pimp is something that is always used to depower those who might stand in the gap force.

I can't let that be the whole thing. I understand that. I can't let that be the whole thing when there are actual issues going on. So, in your opinion, for somebody like me, what is a nutritious and holistic way to criticize taking my emotions out of it? Because I can't just say, hey, don't come at these places because there are some issues there. At the same time, I don't want to be the part of the course of people who lets them take everything that we try to do

and that we try to establish and they weaponize it against us. So for someone that's covering this stuff, you do it for a living. what's the best way for for me to do this in a dispassionate but nutritious way for people? Well, I think it's important that number one that we understand there are two things that can happen here. Folks like Patrice Cullors and Rashad Robinson and many other people who've been seen as, you know, leaders in the racial justice space, particularly in the Black Lives Matter movement space, they are public figures. So I don't want at all for people to think that we have to have, you know, some sort of sympathy for them because they are black public figures or black leaders in our community.

You know, I lead with empathy for everybody, first of all. But, you know, these are folks who are public figures. So these are the faces of the faces that we often intend to and should hold accountable. and ask for transparency and the like. But we also should be mindful, and this is coming from my reporting. This is not my opinion here. That folks who step out in front and are the face of something like a movement like Black Lives Matter, they are also targets.

And so when we feed into some of the narrative about this person being a grifter or that stealing money or that person being fraudulent, you know, there is a real world consequence to that type of thing when we all feed into that. And what I'm saying is these folks have had to hire security because of how vicious and strong a lot of the criticism both online and in person that they face as, you know, leaders in the faces of his movement. So I would say to to anyone that's looking to to hold these folks accountable, to hold these organizations accountable is to really, to your words, remove some of the emotion out of the person and hold the organization accountable. These organizations are

meant to be publicly accountable. They're not supposed to be operating in shadow and in secret. nonprofits have to disclose what they receive and how they spend their money. It is perfectly fine to hold the organization, the group accountable for that. But when we start attacking people, I just want to say that from my reporting, there are real world consequences for those things. So that's what I would say is that you can certainly be passionate about how these organizations are actually benefiting our communities. and want those folks to be held to a standard that is acceptable for anybody.

But we should be careful that we do that in a way that does not endanger the lives of not just the folks that are the public face of these things, but also their families. Because that that is a real world consequence for how Black Lives Matter has been received in the world. that some of the folks who had really stood out there in front were made less safe for doing that. And let's just be clear. This is not new. Our leaders going back well into the earliest days of the civil rights movement, I'm talking about the 1930s and 40s and 50s. Those folks were also made unsafe, not just by the public positions that they were taking, the things that they were advocating for, the direct action that they were taking.

out in the streets and in their communities and the marches that they led. But they were made not safe, they were made not safe by infighting and things happening within the community as well. So, I would just say that that that is historical. That's not, you know, opinion. That's just the truth. That we can disagree about movement tactics. We can disagree about who should be in charge. but the moment that we make it so vicious that people are no longer safe, then I think that's where we should maybe take a moment to pause and take some reflection because we don't want our leaders. I think we said a generation ago or maybe more than that, we're tired of seeing our leaders die.

We're tired of seeing our leaders taken from us. but if we are the ones attacking them too, then what can we expect? I mean, there's a consequence for that. So, you know, I would say that that's the way to look at it. Black Lives Matter, Global Network Foundation, color, change, any organization should be held publicly responsible and should be transparent about the activities that they do on behalf of the communities that they advocate for. But personal attacks, that has consequences.

And I think as long as we can find a happy medium, a balance between those things, then maybe we would be heading in the right direction. But again, not my opinion. I'm just saying my reporting backs up that there has, there's real world consequence for the narrative that it currently exists for Black Lives Matter and associated organizations. Aaron Morrison, we'll stop right there. Thank you so much. You've made us smarter today.

And, you know, I'm going to do a better job. I'm going to take myself, look, I'm not going to get emotional anymore. Oh, right, no more emotion. Man, don't make promises you can't keep. You're going to try. And we respect that. I'm going to try, look, yeah, I'm going to try not to be as emotional, Aaron. We'll see how it goes.

Thank you so much, brother. We appreciate you. I'm sorry. I'm from the Associated Press, award-winning journalist. Thank you for joining us on higher learning today, brother. All right. Thank you. Thank you for having. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling?

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may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. Rachel, what did you think about that conversation? What did you think? What's your thought? I think Aaron is fantastic, and I thought he was really fair in the way that he spoke about it. And I think also he got to you. You claim that you're now not going to be as emotional.

Well, you said you're being done, and I want to, like, manage your expectations here. You're going to try. But I think that what he said was very fair. And to be, and if you're going to check yourself to check myself, sometimes I'm too much on the opposite end of the spectrum, where I don't know if I necessarily criticize the person, but I am very critical of the organization and maybe sometimes too much tie the person to it. So I think what Aaron, the perspective that Aaron gave was a lot was,

was middle ground and we should aim to look at it. We all should. And under that perspective. Well said. So look, I'm proposing a new segment on higher learning. Oh. And the segment is called, we got to talk about Texas.

Shut up. I'm from Louisiana. I'm from Louisiana. Y'all just don't make the news. Yeah. Our fuckery just, you know, we got Ronald Green.

We got all kinds of terrible things going on in the state, okay? Just don't do whatever. But Texas is, Texas is the proven ground for right-wing fuckery right now. Texas and Florida are in intense battle.

They're a competition. Yes. Battle. So there's a new law in Texas. I want to know what you think about this from a legal standpoint. This call almost been legal eagle. Donnie, give me the sound. Limiting local regulations.

So Texas, it seems, wants there to be legislative consistency across the entire state. There's essentially a bill on the doctor. right now, and we'll get to who sponsored this bill in a second. The bill is Resolution 2127, and what it would do is stripped cities of the ability to set standards for local workplaces to ensure civil rights and to improve their environment. Like, what is that, when you hear that, what does that mean from a legal standpoint? What are they trying to do, Rachel? I mean, basically, they're trying to take the right away from cities, and they're doing it under preemption. I mean, it's a practice known as that, but they're asserting their dominance as a state over these

localities, which is a problem when it comes to voting. This is why it affects you as a citizen in particular, because the reason the Republicans are doing it, and it's not just Texas. As I was looking into this, I was like, oh, wait, it's not just Texas. Other states are doing it as well, but we know that these larger states, when they do it, then it spreads like wildfire throughout the rest of these red states. They watch, they learn. they implement. But what's happening is they're coming in Republicans, Republican-led states, and they want power where they don't have it. So over these Democratic cities, these larger cities, which have a lot of voters. And they're coming in to these localities and preempting the city

ordinances and the laws that exist within the localities and saying, well, if it contradicts what the state law is, then we reign over you. And it is literally taking the voice away from if you're voting for an elected official within your city, it doesn't matter that you're voting for somebody who's going to honor what it is that you want for yourself and the constituents. The state can say, you know what? That goes against us. And so it affects so many different issues like LGBTQ rights for employees. Where else?

I had a list running list. But you get what I'm saying. Thank you. You get what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. But apparently, where did I see this? There have been more than 650 preemption bills in state legislatures across the country this year alone.

And the reason that this, I wanted to talk about it is because, and we're starting to bring this up. One, we're coming up on an election year, but two, all the underhanded things that are being done within these states that we're not talking about are going, under the radar, 650 this year, more than that, and that we have no idea. And it's just so the Republicans can gain power, but also it's taking away our rights. And they are getting more, as we've talked about, more and more creative in how they're doing it. Yeah. So because sometimes there will be a city ordinance against discrimination of LGBTQ plus people. Sometimes there'll be a city ordinance that said these are the labor laws.

What they're saying is if we say it in the state that you have to go by what we say and you can't do your own city thing. I think this is interesting for a couple of reasons. Number one, this is against what I would consider to be the ethos or the Republicans. They're like not big government people. Exactly. You know what I mean? It's like what DeSantis was doing with Disney. Yes.

It's like Republicans are and obviously they're so they're hypocritical to the point to where it doesn't even make any sense to point out the inconsistencies anymore. their small government on the only thing that they're small government on is money they don't want to pay any taxes right they don't want any to pay any taxes everything else they're huge government we want let's do a federal abortion ban let's do uh let's spin take all the money and get the biggest most bloated military budget we ever we ever could have let's spin spin spin spin and if you guys don't think that republicans be spending that's the you know how women be shopping Republicans be spending Spend their asses off

Spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin spin Um But in this it would seem like people that are in That are states rights and all of that would be in favor of letting a group of people Govering themselves or whether they want to govern themselves Letting Houston or San Antonio or Dallas govern themselves the way they want to govern themselves And to keep Austin essentially out is Austin the capital of Texas? Yes

and to keep Austin out of their business because I'm seeing situations where the mayor of San Antonio people in Houston are saying this is bad because it takes away our ability to make laws that affect the local climate that we know that we live in so they're going to be less impactful

but we are in an incredible era of the Republicans trying to reshape parts of America where they have less influence into what they want them to be. And it's like, if we had, if the country right now was reflective of the morals and values of the majority of Americans,

like, things would be so much different than what they are right now. We're getting to a point, Nikki Haley said earlier, you're letting a small percentage of, she's talking about trans people, dictate this entire societal shift, as if the Republicans and the far right wackos don't make up a much smaller percentage of Americans in terms of the way we're looking at the country.

People always say half the country, half the country. It's not half the country. It's not. You know what I mean? I thought this was just really, but I'll tell you what, I did a little digging here. If you guys have a problem with preemption in Texas and other places, the guy who started at this, you can give him a call. His name is Dustin Burroughs. He's the one who's sponsoring this. Dustin Burroughs, okay? You can mail him. He's an attorney out of Lubbock. He's a state

representative there in Texas, Dustin Burroughs. This is his phone number. 512-463-0542. That's his phone number at the Capitol Office. At the district office, his phone number is 806. And, and he's a phone number. 795-0-6-35. That's 806-795-0-6-3-5. This is an elected representative. I'm not giving away this man's personal situations. I would like people to call Dustin when you get a chance, check in on them and let them know that you think places should be able to have their local ordinances to protect and serve the people that live where they are. And that Texas should not be subject. to the regulatory capture of Republican-leaning identity politics and all of that stuff. But it's not just, you like him. It's not just, no, I don't. It's not just Texas. I have to be clear with that.

When I said 650, that's across the country. Florida has a wild bill where that they just passed in May that allows businesses to challenge municipal ordinances in court. in court, if they find that they're being unreasonable with the ordinance, that's it. That's how broad it is. And then these businesses can collect up to $50,000 in attorney's fees. It's wild the things that they are doing. It's not just Texas. So in addition to this guy, find all the other people in the state who are proposed in the states

that are proposing these type of bills because the whole goal is just so the Republicans can take over, take away your vote and your rights and they can take over. Yeah, trying to pass the buffer Texas I see the way No, I want you to know it's everywhere Hello, I'm the one who introduced this topic Because I was like, who Greg Abbott is wild

Doing his thing Yeah, he really is though Oh, guess who's back, fresh and fit? Did they leave us? They left our podcast Yeah, we haven't talked about them in the one So look, there's apparently a beef That's going on over there

in the YouTube podcast space. Say YouTube podcast space because these are two different platforms that are very prevalent on YouTube. There's two guys, their names are Abba and Preach, and they have a YouTube channel that's very successful. There's two million subscribers over there doing their thing.

And they, I don't know all the backstory. Abba and Preach, who I've heard of before, are in some way at odds. And just about, before you guys tell me something problematic about I've been preached, I've seen a couple of videos. I really don't know what they do.

I know that they are YouTubers and that they are very successful. Don't have any issue with whatever, but I don't, before you say, hey, Van, don't defend these guys. They said this about this person. I've hated them for years.

I know you guys, whenever something, they always comes up, that somebody said something on Twitter and I don't know enough about them. Yeah. The point is this issue and not anything.

I didn't even know who they were until this. So I'm speaking from this point on. Okay. Yeah, I hadn't heard of them before. They're pretty big deals. They're pretty big deals. Yeah, they react to, they react to moments. Yeah, they talk about things that are,

that are socially relevant that their audience cares about. I'm not sure if they would be considered in the mantel sphere or not. Well, they used to be friends. with fresh and fit. They used to be cool from my understanding and looking at all of this. And then I guess Fresh and Fit, which is on brand, took things to a level where they started to comment and react to their videos. And Fresh and Fit didn't like that. So then there was this, there's, it's been going on off for a couple of years, this back and forth of taking low blows.

Fresh and fit. I hate that I know way too much about this, but in researching for this pot for this subject, I learned more than I wanted to. Fresh and Fit started taking digs at Preach's wife. And then they actually ended up apologizing to their audience and said that's not the type of podcast that they are or YouTubers that they are. They don't get in the drama. And so even when Abba and Preach responded to that video, they didn't respond. So they just kind of let it go.

But I guess it got to a point where maybe Abba and Preach were doing a little bit too much in reacting and we have this. So Myron from Fresh and Fit went on a live stream with Sneko and Zirka. And he put on a clan hood and talked about his beef with Abba and Preach. Everybody in this situation is black. Abba and Preacher black, Fresh and Fit are black. And this is what Myron did, some audio from what Myron said and did. when he was on the live stream.

Yo, you know, this nigger here is funny. He's funny, this nigger. I don't condone this N-word. Oh, shut up, you Albanian, f***. Keep running the clip, you chink. Who's that weird dude that can't speak?

Who's that? He black as hell. These shit is his gay, nigger here with the red. What the fuck is going on? What entire nation faking pussy shit is that? Not a respect to minorities. What?

What the fuck? Stop! What? I want to get another run! Preach is crying right now, swinging from a monkey branch. Bro. Eating a banana, playing some Donkey Kong on an N-64 because he's a stupid prick. He's a window-licking stupid n- What?

That nir spin. I like that. I like that. This video that we were responding to. He got these nicks running like it's an employment line. What the f- What? Don't do that. I will find you, you fucking stinky-looking piece of shit you go fucking fat.

Right here. I don't like it. you already. I never ever compare that myron dude to them fucking Jews you motherfucker. Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is this is not representative. I was born this way you change. Keep going. Later on myron profession fit came on and he said that what he was basically doing was a Clayton Bigsby routine. That Dave Chappelle did that same thing when he was on the Chappelle show and it's comedy when he's making fun of Abba and pre.

I'll tell you why we're discussing this. I know you guys don't want to fucking hear about Fresh and Finney anymore on the podcast. We're discussing this because sometimes there's, there are opportunities to have not important conversations, but slightly larger conversations about a conduct or speech that exists out there. I'm a free speech person, love people's opportunity to say what it is. They feel like they need to say.

We've heard from Fresh and Fit before. We've heard Fresh and Fit denigrate Black women and talk about how they don't like black women and how they don't date black women, calling names and that entire thing. We've seen the treatment of Black Women, period, on the Fresh and Fit show from time to time. Okay. The arguments that would be made is that, look, this is our. preference. We don't have to like black ladies. We don't have to respect or hold them up or whatever, whatever. They responded to that and they said, oh, we're not, my mother's black,

all of this stuff like that, whatever, whatever. But when I watch this, just the reality is that this is vile, nasty, dirty stuff. But you guys know that I make jokes that are base and race. but like there were how Hitler's being thrown there were anti-Semitic things being said that the N-word is being used with a clanhood on it's one thing to say

nigger nigger this, nigger that, nigger that when you put a clanhood on you have to wonder why this is the way that mirean chose to get at Abba and preach it makes it

like I'm I don't get it like it seems to me some health self-hating coon ass shit 100% like it and it and you know I don't want to get into a back and forth name calling type of situation but

what's the point of that if you don't like these guys or you have a problem with these guys for whatever reason once you put the land hoodie on. And once you start with the Hitler stuff, now everybody's in that. Like, why we, why is that where we went? Like, Nick Fuentes popped on this. Oh, I saw. Just let you guys

know later on later on in this same stream, noted white supremacist, Nick Fuentes jumped on. Like, what are we doing? I believe it is obviously self-hatred. And we talked about that. when we saw how they talked about black women. But it's coupled with white acceptance. Their self-hatred, it's like they're so, they so want to be anti-black that they separate themselves from what they feel

would be considered a stereotypical black and feel like that they're, they don't align themselves with those type of people. And they're doing it to gain the acceptance of white people. When you looked at Myron on that live and he's there saying homophobic schlurs, racist schlars, I mean, he's doing it and he's getting giddy at the reaction that he's getting from a Nick Fuentes or a Zirko, is that his name? Or what's Sneiko?

Zerka, Zirko, Snika. I mean, a sneako is like the right, like the number two under an Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate has been on Fresh and Fits podcast. Now they're talking to Nick Funtzes or who they have before. They want so badly to be in this world and accepted by these people that they're willing to say everything that what they want is call comedy, but they're really just doing it to please these white folks. That's what that is. And their self-hatred is being used as self-destruction, not just of themselves, but of other black people and all the other communities that they offend. during that that quote unquote comedy rant that he now wants to say it was.

And just to be clear, the whole Clayton Bigsby thing, the fact that you want to compare yourself to what he did on what Dave Chappelle did in that skit, he was mocking the absurdity of people that fresh and fit are. And that was not real life. He was not coming after real actual people. It was a skit. what you did was speak hate speech towards two particular people and entire communities. That's not the same thing.

You can't slap comedy on it and try to make it all okay. It was intentional. You know, there was a time when I wanted to go on their podcast. And I want to, so I'll tell you why. I wanted to go on their podcast because I was interested in the whole high value man conversation because I thought that it was rooted in youthful exuberance. I just remember, I don't know if I've talked about this on the podcast before, I just remember having conversations with guys at 25 or 26.

And the things that they would say would be like, a woman got to do this for me, a woman got to do that for me, a woman's got to do this, a woman's got to do that. Like, this is what, and I just remember, like, having those conversations with people and then watching them grow into men that their relationships, looked to nothing like that is that these are guys that became successful and became like financially viable they're in shape there all of those things that everyone would say but they became men who realized that to have a woman in your life that you valued that valued you that there was a given a take and that you couldn't dictate to them who you wanted them to be

And so, you know, my point in talking about any of that stuff, because, you know, I was never going to be able to have a conversation with any of those other dudes. My point was that, you know, this is like I was going to want to poke holes in it, not even in a super confrontational way, but I wanted to just intellectually poke holes in the idea that some of the things that they were saying and that maybe they didn't even believe. And if you follow some of the stories of Fresh and Fit, you know that they obviously didn't believe some of it. But then there was a turn. There was a turn where this stuff, and I don't think I knew very much about the Manusphere at that point. Anyway, I just thought these were people that were talking about relationship dynamics.

I think that there was a turn and there was a turn where all of this stuff became, either became or as I delved more into it, saw that it is really destructive. Like it's not even, I mean, obviously, as you Tate, it's not even just a little destructive. It's really destructive. Like, it's really bad. Like, not bad in the sense, well, these guys are crazy.

They believe this. Bad in the sense of these are intellectual enemies. Yeah. And it's snowballed, right? It's snowballed from, these are maybe some young guys with immature slash bad ideas. about male-female dynamics, which it's fine with me for them to believe whatever they want to believe. If you're one of the guys out there and you say,

hey, a woman should clip my toenails every Tuesday night. Dog, if that's how you feel, I'm going to tell you why that might not work out for you, but if that's how you feel, that's how you feel. I'm going to tell you why that's probably a bad way to look at your life. But if that's how you feel, that's how you feel. But it went from that to really ugly. shit. Yeah.

Yeah. Like a lot of ugliness. Like a lot of ugliness. And now it's to a point to where, and I'm not saying that that wasn't ugly. I'm saying that I might have been unaware at a point of this seriousness of all of this talk. And the evolution of the evolution of sort of belittling people in that way and like how you really, forget about being a high.

value man do you value people do you value people at all do you value is there anything about those guys that is sacred to them like like like why are you playing like that because not even trying to be not even trying to be a dick or even look down my nose and a point of morality ruler at someone just like for real a clan hoodie because they value what's what's likes and the attention and the growing audience They got suspended from YouTube for hate speech, for some speeches that they did at the beginning of their career, and they gain followers during, like, the week they had off. And they're looking at that and saying, this is what tapping into these people, aligning ourselves with white supremacists, having these, this hate speech, and then saying, oh, it's just comedy and people are too sensitive. They know that it's growing their audience and their bank accounts.

and that's what they value right now. I mean, I don't understand how you can even put on Afro wigs and braided wigs and say all these derogatory things when you are a black person. As if you're deep, that's what I mean about the self-hatred is so deep. You don't even think that you're black. You have separated yourself from what it is to be black, all because you want to be accepted by white people, which we know is deeply rooted.

We've gone into the history of that. They embody that. Well, I just have to bring it up. There is another dynamic there that is also going to, to make people, just raise eyebrows with people, about how they look at black Americans. Now, I'm not sure about Abel and preaches nationalities or whatever. but, you know, fresh and fit. When we talk about how they view black people,

I've heard them say before that, hey, one of them is from one of the islands. He's like, hey, when people will come to the islands and I would get with women there in the islands, these were white women. So I looked at a white standard of beauty and you're here in America and whatever. I believe, well, these other brothers,

is from outside of the States. So this might have to do with a particular way that they look at black Americans, that they look at blackness. And how they feel about women might be a symptom of that, a symptom of their overall worldview and a proximity to a wanting to be white or a white way of view in the world more than just them fucking around on the internet and trying to be bros. and that's not to say that that's any less destructive. It's trying to say that there's something, there's something here. Like this is wild and weird. It is weird.

But when you talk about the physical appearance of black people, that doesn't have it, that doesn't always have to do with where you, that you're not a black American. I mean, and that's what they were getting into. No, no, I, no, I get that. I'm not, what I'm saying is that like,

there might be, because brothers do that here all the time and black women do it all the time too. We did it, do you, black ass, whatever, whatever. So I'm not saying that that's something that that doesn't exist that only exist outside these borders, but what I'm saying is there might not be, we might not be in Sympatico in terms of needing to lift certain people up

that are here in America, that live in Miami where you're from, around to the places that are really consuming the content. There might not be like these people don't seem to be like they're on any, it will have any cultural oneness with us. They seem to actually hate black people. Absolutely. Because there's no way, there's no way,

no matter who I had a beef with that I'm going to do the, clan thing, the Howl Hitler stuff, all of that stuff. Man oh man, I guess do it for the clout. All right, we get out of here. Oh, before we do that, let's talk about something. Rachel wanted to bring something up that you saw on the internet. Look, let's get into this. Just to be clear, this is van.

This is all van. Whoa, whoa, whoa, no, you said you want to show. I'm interested. I'm just saying you brought it to my attention. I do find it quite interesting. Okay, let's do it. Okay, so this is the tweet. All right.

There's a back and forth between a man and a woman. I'll just give you the entire rundown. It's posted by the lady on Twitter. No names. Apparently, the man and a woman are going to go out on a date. Mm-hmm. And they were going to go to a very nice restaurant. Mm-hmm.

The man makes a reservation for the date. the woman sleeps through the reservation. She's agreed to go out on the date. She falls asleep. She sleeps through the reservation. She's tywoed.

She's tuck-tuck-towed. She sleeps through the reservation. The man hits her and says it was $70 to cancel the reservation last night. And then they

have a back and forth. He says it was $70 to counsel reservation last night. It's not a big deal. I just thought you should know. That's all. Then she says it is a big deal to you. That's why you mentioned it at all. He goes, no, that's just a fact.

It's the way the cookie crumbles. It wouldn't have been right not to tell you. She says, you know what? I can already tell we're not going to click. I don't like to sweat the small stuff. He said, if you say so, okay, then go ahead and Zell Vimmo Apple Pay to $70 and we don't have to sweat. I would have offered to at least pay my portion because I'm a responsible adult. It's okay. You do you. Bye. She was like, if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't have brought up

the $70, but we all wear different shoes. He says, how is that fair? She goes, do you really think life is fair? Because I have news. He goes, I didn't put, I didn't, she goes, I didn't put a gun to your head and force you. She goes, it's not fair. You sound five. Sound like you're crying. It's not fair for me to pay $70. See? She would be my friend. Why? Okay.

She's like 100% wrong. I want to ask some context to this. She did oversleep. The date, according to her, the date was at 11 p.m. at night. She already had kind of said, hey, it's late. I don't want to go. Or, you know, like it's going to be late for me. So she fell asleep.

But when she woke up, she apologized. Okay. So the way it started off, it was just that the text that we saw was, hey, it was a Michelin Star restaurant. It was $70 to close, you know, to cancel the reservation. So, but before that, she apologized for oversleeping and explain why. And I guess his initial response was it was a Michelin Star restaurant. It was $70 to cancel.

All right. Me, I think this, I'm sorry. This is extremely tacky on the guy. Okay? I get, yes, I get that you may be upset. To be very honest, even back it up even further. If I knew I was going to a Michelin Star Restaurant, and apparently I think she picked the restaurant or something like that, I'm not sure.

But anyways, if I knew I was going to a Michelin Star Restaurant or any nice restaurant, when you have to cancel last minute or you miss, they always charge a fee. So I would know that. So me personally, I would have said, oh my God, I'm sorry, I overslept. If there was a fee, let me know. That is what I would do, to be very honest with you. If he said, oh, it was $70 and still offered for me to pay, we got a problem. He shouldn't he shouldn't accept that even if I offered.

He should just appreciate the fact that I gave that gesture. It is tacky on this man's part to respond to her after she said she overslept and she's wrong and she apologized. She did the right thing by apologizing. For him to say, oh, by the way, you owe me $70, which is basically what he said, that's not cute. That's not attractive. And you got to let you got to just eat that up. If you're really interested in this woman, if you're really interested in this woman, you re-scan, if you're really interested in this woman, you re-scan, schedule the date and you see where it goes from there and like that kind of stuff, you just,

you laugh about it later. It's $70. You were going to a Michelin Star restaurant, minimum $300. Minimum. What $70 for you? If you're really interested in establishing a relationship, take the L and have another date. But he wanted to let her know. And to me, that lets me know everything I know about this man. He's petty. He is cheap and was more interested in proving a point than he was about getting to know this young lady. I'm not wrong. Okay.

So I don't know anything about this man. I don't know anything about her. Sorry to this man. She put it on Twitter or else nobody would know. Okay. She put it on Twitter else nobody will know. I'm about to make personal judgments about either one of them. I do.

Because I don't know these people. But what I will tell you is that women have to decide how they want the world to be. Okay? This is not this. I'll just be honest with you. Oh, yes it is. Yes, it is. Women have to decide how they want the world to be.

Because if you guys can't cherry pick which parts of patriarchy that you like. That's not patriarchy to me. Yeah, it is. It is absolutely rooted in patriarchy that a man should have to like foot a financial burden. It's absolutely rooted in a relationship. And I still would have said it's not rooted in patriotic. It's not because he's a man. Well, whoa, whoa, hold on.

Let's go back. Let's go back and go back. Let's like talk about what we're talking about. Number one, if this was two women, she didn't ever post it. Because. See, that's not true necessarily. if this were two women, this doesn't even go anywhere. If this was two women, the only reason why, and another thing,

I don't like the fact that we're not keeping it real. I am keeping it real. If this were two women, this doesn't go anywhere. The only reason why this goes anywhere is because of the male, female dynamic that this has. The fact that a man is not supposed to say, hey, the reservation got canceled. Could you pay me back to money?

This is my thing. Would I have done this? No. And why? I'm not going to do this. Why? Because to me, because to me there's a larger goal. Exactly.

I know, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong to do. It's because I wouldn't do it. Like, I was raised by a man, right? And when I'm raised by a man, the man says, hey, son, this is kind of what you take on when you go out with the woman. However, what I'm telling you is that. that if we're getting to a point to where we're decimating gender roles and nobody is talking about this and we're not doing any of this, somebody should be able to ask for their money back if you guys had agreed to go somewhere and then you essentially flaked on them.

Okay. She might have been, she, hold on, let me tell you something real quick. Because see, I let you talk. But here's the deal. He let me, y'all. I tell you what, everybody says that. Everybody says that. I let you talk.

I let you talk. You let me talk. I was just watching Stephen A. and J. Yeah. So look, let me tell you something. You see if the roles were reversed here, if the rolls were reversed here, and he had asked her out,

and she made a reservation because she wanted to go to a favorite restaurant, and he fell asleep. Mm-hmm. And he fell asleep. I mean, he fell asleep. Not, hey, I can't go. Like, this guy got ready. he did all of his stuff

he was whatever and she fell asleep like she fell asleep that's what happened if he had done it and she went to Twitter going I asked this guy for 70 dollars because I put it y'all would be sister girlin and this and the whole nine and you're lying if you say any different I'm sorry man we got to call it like it is

the reality is you don't want this guy to have been like hey you inconvenienced me so can I have my money because you inconvenience me because you want him to continue to work for you through an inconvenience. I would say that whoever makes the reservation is taking the lead. So if she made the reservation and he canceled,

like you eat up the cost. You took the lead from the beginning. It doesn't matter man or woman. But if you do want me to keep it all the way real, I would expect for that. man to say. I know. I would expect for him to say.

What? You think I'm stupid? I know. I would. You think you, like you, of course you would because there's absolutely, I don't think that he necessarily should have to. I don't think he should have to. I think she took the lead in your scenario.

She took the lead. He shouldn't have to do that. But I kind of expect him to. Right. Of course you do. Because men, once again, uh, women are free to have all kinds of expectations of men, but men are not free to have any expectations of women.

Because the moment that this, because this is about money, right? This is about money. So it's about money. Cool. The moment this guy says, hey, I took you out to dinner so you should suck my dick.

Now he's got to, now he is, now he's a curmudgeon and a fucking chauvinist and all of that for adhering to something that's completely crazy. And I'm saying that it's completely crazy. So the moment that he, the moment that it's okay if it's about money when it comes to a man,

but it's not okay if it's about sex when it comes to a woman. It's not, and I get that these things are not the same. One is your body and one is what comes out of it. But what I'm telling you is traditionally these roles between men and women. And you'll even hear women say this. Like, yeah, my man takes care of everything.

That's why I do this and this and that for him. And that's why I do this and that for him. So I'm saying it's like, at some point, aren't we gonna, look, it's an, I guess it's a standard that everybody is accepted,

that everybody is accepted, but at some point, aren't we going to have to just stop intellectualizing this and just like, it's just about feelings? I also just, yeah, it's about feelings, but also just because women say

that there's a patriarchy or they want to be treated equally or they're independent women doesn't mean that it erases gender roles completely. I mean, like I would be lying if I didn't say they exist. It doesn't mean that you got to be like, okay, well, now you got to do all this and you got to do this. It's a partnership and it's give and take.

But to me, it's not just money. It's also about taking the lead, which is why I said if a woman made the reservations and she put down her money, she has decided to take the lead in this scenario. And so it's like that another person is following that lead. I don't know. It's complicated. But I also just don't believe that truly that exists where you can say gender roles are completely erased in this society. It's just some of it is what I'm saying. Well, see?

So this is what I'm saying. What there can't be is gender roles when you want them to be. See, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying, hold on, I'm not saying that like everybody lived their life the way you want to live it. If you want to live a life where you're in a house and you're adhering to the gender roles and everybody is doing what that I work. So you take care of the babies. you, whatever, all of that stuff. Hey, whatever works for you is cool.

What I'm saying is what I don't like is when it's gender roles when it works for you. Like gender roles, gender roles when it works for you means I have to pay. Okay. I have to pay and that's fine. I don't, to me, I don't have to pay. To me, you know why I like to pay for everything? Not just with women, but with my friends. It's because it gives me control.

Yeah, I agree. I ask for the check when I want the check so I can leave what I want. I can like it just, it gives me control. I just, yeah. I like to control situations. So that's why I pay for things, right?

Um, but what I'm saying is it can't be. It just, it, to me, if I'm being all the way honest, it makes it seem unsirious. And that's the part of it. I think eliminating gender. roles and the equality and the independence of women is a very serious issue. It makes it look unsurious to me when people go, yeah, but I still need you to do this because

this works for me. It makes it seem like there's no real basis for it. I don't think most women want to eliminate gender roles. Let me just be very clear about that. I don't think that most women are saying let's eliminate it. What I think when you talk about the patriarchy, it's about respect. Yes. it's about equal pay, but that's not the same thing as gender roles. That's just equality. And I think that sometimes we confuse the two. Anyways, save it for the summit.

Save it for the summit. We'll talk about it at the summit. Look, hey, she said fuck him. It's cool. He said whatever. But he's not wrong for asking for the money. Like, yo, like we some adults. I wouldn't have done it.

I'd have charged it to the game. I made a whole joke about it. The next time we go out, I'm like, just to let you, I probably wouldn't have brought it up. Yeah. I probably wouldn't have ever brought it up, you know,

because it's like only $70. But if I would have brought it up, I'd have brought it up in a funny way to tease her for, because I still have a goal. And my goal, so my goal is mission accomplishment. And just to be clear, You said $70.

It's not a lot. It's not that it's not. It's that they were going to a Michelin Star restaurant. So in the grand scheme of that, $70 is not a lot. You were on deck to pay, hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Not all Michelin Star restaurants cost that much money. Well, to be clear, she said if he had taken her to the Michelin Star restaurant, she would have racked up $500.

See? All right. Let's get out of here, man. See, y'all, but see, y'all got, okay, Rachel. Okay, I can't wait to the summit. I can't wait to the summit. Before we go and you close it out, I just want to give a shout out. We shit on Texas.

We talk about all the things that they're doing. But my homeboy is running for U.S. Congress. Justin Amor, we're going to have him on this podcast. He's absolutely fantastic. He's a civil rights attorney. He's dedicated his life to the cause. I never thought he would run for politics. But it shows that we are in a situation in Texas and in this country where we need people like Justin Moore

running for Congress. You can find out what he's about, what he represents, at more for Texas.com. That's M-O-M-O-M-O-O-R-E, the number for Texas.com. Go on there, check it out. Even if you don't live in Texas, Texas is a battleground state. And I think we need to flip it. So go on there, see what he's about, and then support him. All right, do that.

Do that. Justin, A-more. A-more. He's amoral. No, I'm just sure. Go vote for him. He's great. All right. Take thin caps open. Now I stop learning. I'm Van Lathen Jr. And I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye guys. Oh, hold on. Wait. Oh. Oh. Oh, before we go.

It looks like Taylor Swift and Matt Healy have called it quits. After the fact. Oh, my God, Rachel. Jesus Christ, man. No, good for her. Good for her. What do you want me to do? Sing her praises. He's been doing other stuff. He's come out and said that everybody. but he was overreacting. He stands by what he said. She had to let him go.

This was looking real bad for Taylor. So you really feel like Taylor Swift had to break up with her boyfriend? First off, it was well documented that he was like this before. And she still had some type of romance with him. I'm not giving her a pat on the back because it was short-lived. She just, she got, he got caught. It got put, it got put on the mainstream of how he, of how he is. Whatever, good for Taylor.

She's back on the market. Matt Healy. Fuck off. Take you big caps, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lankton Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye guys.