Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Paying Teachers, Missing White Women Syndrome, and Pool Party Foul

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

Van and Rachel discuss Donald Trump’s cabinet’s praise of his first 100 days in office (2:55), and Paul Pierce’s explanation of NBA players’ dating habits (14:51). Plus, Terrence Howard says what he’d do to his lips if he ever kissed a man (28:51), and Giannis Antetokounmpo gets into it with Tyrese Haliburton’s dad (35:33). Then, reactions to a video of somebody going too far at a pool party (47:35), before former secretary of education John King Jr. joins to discuss the present and future of the department (56:39), and producer Lisa Cortés joins to talk about her new docuseries, ‘Murder Has Two Faces’ (1:22:38). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: John King Jr. and Lisa Cortés Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of Higher Learning is brought to you by MGM Plus. If you love high-stakes drama, Godfather of Harlem delivers. I can't wait to say it. I know it has Academy Award winner, Forrest Whitaker. He returns as Bumpy Johnson, facing his deadliest battles yet for Harlem's future. When ruthless newcomer Frank Lucas arrives, everything changes. As power shifts and new threats emerge, will Bumpy forge an uneasible? Is he alliance with his enemies?

Or will he stand tall as the undisputed Godfather of Harlem? Well, you can find out in the new season of Godfather of Harlem, new episodes streaming Sundays on MGM Plus. Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? How I learning is on and is I Van Lacey Jr. And it's me, Rachel Lynn Lindsay. What's your name, my brother?

We're here with Ronnie. Ronnie? Ronic. Ronick is, I'm in New York and Ronic is with me on the ones and two's producing over here. Okay, Donnie, Ashley, Ronick. Thank you, Ronic for helping us out.

In the back there, some boxing people are going to notice this guy in the back. He's hanging out. That is four-time trainer of the year, Derek James, Rachel. Okay? Right back there. The trainer of such greats as the Charlos champions at 154 at 160.

Errol Spence, who was a unified champion at 147, four-time trainer of the year, Derr James. There's a huge card happening tomorrow in New York City. When I say a huge card, I'm talking about Roli Ramirez on the card, Ryan Garcia's on the card, Devin Haney's on the card, T. Afima Lopez is on the card, a big card. I'm not going to be able to see it because I'm going to be doing CNN, but I hooked up with Derek out here.

came to chill for a little bit. He's a Texas guy, Rachel. Derek, where's he from? Where's he from Dallas? He's from Dallas. Where's he from Dallas? Where are you from in Dallas? Rachel says, Derek.

He's from Oak Cliff. That's what Rachel's from. Oak Cliff. Yeah, she's from Oak Cliff. She ain't got no hands, though. There was this girl that was called out. That is not true. Stop.

Name Hannah B. Back in the day. And Rachel really bought it. That's not true. Whatever. I've been doing my thing for a while. Has Derek trained you? No, Derek has not trained me. Not quite yet.

But we're going to see if maybe, you know, give us a lesson, smooth out some of the rough edges. See what's up. You know what I mean? Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcumab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy,

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Look, we got to start with the quick hitters because there's a lot going on. By the way, that's a ring magazine card tomorrow. We're not getting paid in any way, shape, or form, by the way. Derek's here, so I'm just, you know, he's training Ryan Garcia, who is also kind of off his fucking rocker. Derek, you'd have to admit that. Okay. It's kind of fucking crazy. But we'll see how that fight goes tomorrow.

Lots of high-leverage boxing. But there's also a lot of high-leverage stuff happening in the quick hitters, Donnie. Get into our quick hitters. Trump has passed a major milestone his first 100 days in office. Let's just check in with the cabinet and hear how he celebrated the occasion. He's actually doing the things that he promised that he would do. And Mr. President, it's been an honor to be part of it for the past 100 days. Mr. President, the last four years, the world experienced a total lack of zero leadership under Biden.

And then we've had 100 days of your leadership with respect, with strength. President, your first 100 days has far exceeded that of any other presidents. in this country, ever, ever, never seen anything like it. Thank you. President Trump, in your first term, when I had a chance to wear you as governor, you were courageous. The thing that's empowering this amazing group of people around this table, and you've probably assembled the greatest cabinet ever,

is that this time you're not just courageous. You're actually fearless. I've never wanted to hear Glaze of the Week the song more. Yeah, you're a hater of the song. I'm not. You're a hater of the song. It's okay. The song is catching on and everybody loves it, all right?

But this is what I'll say. We can't use this as Glazer the Week. Glaze of the Week is a Monday thing. Wow. You might have to make some exceptions. We might have to because this week, this was one of the biggest glazing weeks that we've ever seen. Okay? And because Lindsay Graham, we haven't even talked about that.

We're not even going to get to it. We might even save that for Monday. I'm not sure what's going to end up being Glaze of the Week. I will say this, though. I've seen this before. Rachel, are you familiar with what a blowbang is? Oh, no. Is this one of those things

I have to Google again? No. Yeah, look that up, Rachel. Look it up right now. Look up. Look up. I want everybody that's on the podcast right now. Everyone that's at home,

look up what a blowbang is. Look up what a blowbang. Donnie, look up blowbang. Oh, my God. Okay. You see what it is. Everyone at home, look up blowbang right now. Look up what that is.

Do you guys know what that is? Why do you know so many? any of these terms. You know why. And I'm not going to allow you. The first thing that popped up, the first thing that popped up was blow bang, porn home. Right.

So you guys all know what that is. You guys, now you know what it is. That's what happened. You guys have heard of a gang bang before. There's an inverse to that. There's a blowbang where everybody lines up to suck the dick of one person. And that's essentially what happened here at this cabinet meeting. Trump arranged a blowbang for himself.

And I hope that he's been taking his vitamins. And he had enough stored up in himself to glaze everyone that wanted to step up and be glazed there. That was a political blowbang. And if I'm asked about it on CNN tonight, I will say it. Are you going to say this? If I'm asked about it on CNN tonight, I will say it. That was disgusting. Well, you know that's going to be your last day of CNN, right?

whatever. It'll eventually happen. That was disgusting and your comparison was disgusting. It was disgusting to watch, especially as they gathered around the table in front of Gulf of America hats. Did you see that? Everybody had a Gulf of America hat in front of them.

It's disgusting. But so was that. Because now we have a visual. And you got to stop. I want you guys to be as disgusting as me. Donnie next. All right. Well, the second voice that we heard in that compilation,

that was Mike Waltz. That compilation? Compilation was Mike Walsh. Mike Wals. Focus, focus, Dottie, focus. His blowbank participation, I think, didn't save his job. It looks like he's ousted from the White House as the National Security Advisor. That's according to reports from political and a couple of other sources.

He added the journalists to that signal chat disclosing some military plans. Mike Wals, out. It seems like, like, it seems like if you're Pete Hexeth, who is also embattled, who's having all kinds of problems with Signal, you probably feel like you're a little safer right now, or maybe the question is, is Hexeth a little safer now? That it seems like Waltz is on the way out. It seems like this was going to be the guy that they wanted to go. There's been some talk of infighting within Trump world regarding Waltz and whether or not he's well liked by people

as well. So the first one is out. Well, somebody had to take the fall for what happened. And I think Mike Waltz doing a media tour saying that he's going to do an investigation to understand how the number just appeared in his phone. You know, the lies that he was telling. You pointed out that, you know, Lori Ingram was questioning it. You know, you even had like the far right media questioning the way that he was doing it. Somebody had to go. It was going to be him.

I think that if Pete Higsett continues to keep getting. such bad media, he could be, you know, like there's the media report that he put a makeup room in the Pentagon that cost a lot of money, that he had another signal chat where he had family members in with sensitive information. I think if that continues, then we could see Pete Higgs at fall as well. The question is, does this dysfunction in the administration matter to people? In Trump's first administration, it became indicative of a vacuum of leadership at the top and the fact that maybe he didn't know what he was doing. This administration is different insofar as we know what the goal is.

We know that the goal of the subordinates and people around him is that cabinet meeting. The goal is to have loyalists that are that close to the president that won't question him or push back on his agenda or his shredding of political norms in any way. So the question then becomes, when you get rid of these people who are essentially lemmings, does that signal anything to the American people? And I'm not so sure that it does. It doesn't. I don't think it does. Well, hold on, not to the American people, because Trump's polling is in a shit box right now.

Okay. But to the Mago World Loils. But we should say that Trump's polling, even amongst people who are, you. demographic, should I say, that voted for him just months ago. The polling is in the shit box. The box of shit right now. Donnie? Trump also celebrated his 100 days in office with a town hall with News Nation.

That featured panelists like Chris Cuomo, Bill O'Reilly, and Stephen A. Smith, who asked Trump a question, and this was Trump's answer to that question. Mr. President, thank you for your time. It's interesting that you brought up Harvard, because when people think about Harvard, What they're basically talking about is they're asking, what do you say to those who view your actions as an attack on academic freedom rather than a defense of fairness? What do you say to that?

Well, I say this. We had riots in Harlem, in Harlem. And frankly, if you look at what's gone on, and people from Harlem went up and they protested, Stephen, and they protested very strongly against Harvard. They happened to be on my side. You know, I got a very high blood. black vote. You know that. Very, very high black vote. It was a very great compliment to be. I did criminal justice reform. I did

opportunity zones for one of the greatest economic deals ever for the black and Hispanic community. I got tremendous. They agree with what I'm doing with respect to Harvard. I'm sorry, that's funny. What the fuck is that nigga talking about? What did Trump used to call what he does? The wee? The wee. I feel like I haven't seen the weave in a while. That was a weave.

That was a weave. And shout out to Stephen A. Smith, who just didn't know what was happening in that moment. I feel like Stephen A. Smith was overwhelmed by the randomness of Trump. I guess I'm just, I can't be like, shout out to Stephen A. Smith. In that moment, how do you not? have a follow-up question or just even correct or say, wait, wait, wait, wait,

why are we talking about Harlem? The question was about Harvard. Just that simple. Because in that clip, Cuomo makes a face, like his eyes buck. Like, what the fuck? And Stephen A sat there with a straight face and literally kind of co-signed it

when he says, yes, when he's like, I had the highest black phone. He's like, compared to others, or compared to the past, yes. I don't know if Stephen A. Smith checked out. I don't know if he thought he said Harvard when he said Harlem. But I can't give him a shout out because he simply should have followed up with, why are we talking about this when the question was this?

I have a habit of saying shout out. I think that's really what it gets down to right there. Okay. Okay. But I will say this. The we will get you because if you've ever been talking to people, it will. I'm serious. If you've ever been talking to someone and they are, you ask them a question and they go off, which I tend to do sometimes, they go off on a million different things, you'll get caught up in actually trying to understand them and you'll forget what the genesis of the conversation was. You'll forget, like, what the hell?

What were we talking about? So do we will get you? I'm sure that you have. But you make sense, though. In your defense, you make sense. You might, you see, like, you're long-winded, but it makes sense. You're not throwing, you're not weaving.

Not all the time. What? Not all the time. You're not a Trump. You're not a Trump. I'm sorry. Please do not compare. Please don't do that.

The weave will get you. The weave will get you because you just, you tune out. I have my own thoughts about this pairing of the corpse of Bill O'Reilly, what's left over Chris Cuomo, and Stephen A. Smith as a News Nation town hall. I'm not so sure. like what we're doing, what's happening. So I guess, I guess I don't, you know, I have my own thoughts about that. And Trump was very, I saw another clip where Trump was very conciliatory and complimentary

to Stephen A. Smith and it looked like Stephen A blushed a little bit. So I don't know what purpose that's serving. But look, everybody's got a platform and who am I to criticize somebody? else's. But I don't know. If you're going to have them on there, if you're going to talk to the president, that goes for anyone that's going to talk to the president. It seems like you should use your time wisely to get him to answer a question. But he's been doing that to journalists for 20 years now.

Donnie, last quick hitter. This might not be such a quick hit. Let's see how fast we can get through this. Paul Pierce, who was on The Truth After Dark Podcast, where he had this to say about NBA players and their dating preferences. Why do you feel like men, especially NBA players, get with the white women? Is it because they're easy, quote unquote? I got some theories, but I really want to hear it from him.

I do too. I want to hear it too. I honestly think that maybe they appreciate maybe more and they apologize more. Listen, I'm scared. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I mean, you know. I had an interview with him.

Not the apology. Don't mind being held accountable. I'm so scared of this, y'all, because I had an interview with Columbus short, and I asked him this similar question, and he said something. And I got dragged for faith. I was on breakfast club. I was on the sheriff's all. I had death threats for so long.

from black women because they said I laughed when he said that. So let me not laugh. I don't have nothing to do with this. I mean, that's what I think. Rachel. No. Seems to be a direct criticism of black women. I have nothing to say.

You have nothing to say? I've done. We talked about this. I got a, me and Rachel talked about something yesterday. I got a lot of calls this week. Got a lot of calls this week from brothers. You hurt their feelings, Rachel.

I think for the first time you hurt the brother's feelings because we were having a conversation about the guerrilla attack and it was a fun, lighthearted, I didn't even notice it in the moment. Because we were having fun.

A fun, lighthearted, in the moment, conversation about my amazing plan to beat the gorilla, right? And out of nowhere, there were some black men that felt like you just use it

as an excuse to kick black men in their nuts for no reason. People hit me up like, bro, is that shit about Rachel? Is it true what they say? And now you have. And what is it? And what is it they say? They say that. So this is why we're talking about this.

So this is what I think is that I think personally the way I look at this. If you have specific criticisms about black women, to me, that is an indication. of fuckness. The moment that someone goes, ah, black women this, black women, I start to kind of go, okay, well, I kind of know what this guy is.

Right? Now, I will give what I feel like are criticisms of women or observations about women because I think that women are socialized in a way, just like men are socialized in a way.

And if women are socialized in a way, are probably common threads between them. And we can talk about those things. Or we can talk about things that are maybe a little bit more natural to the way men and women get on. I think that there are things that you could talk about and examine about men. There are things you can talk about and examine about women. But when you single out black women, like it seems to be done in this clip, it becomes an issue for me. Because I think that black women are beat up on a lot.

However, it does not seem like, and I'm talking about beyond the really serious issues, it does not seem like to a lot of black men, doesn't bother me that much through the podcast all the time, we joke about it. But to a lot of black men, it seems like they feel like, should I say, that people just don't have a problem kicking them in their balls and their nuts and their open assholes all the time when we weren't even talking about something like that. And it seemed like if the shoe was on the other foot, if I was on here all the time,

talking specifically about black women, that I would be looked at like Paul Pierce has probably looked at right now as a fuck nigger, but it's not the same on the other side. So I wish we could do, we could dissect past podcasts about how many times we're dealing, the topic has to deal with,

or the topic, because we choose the topics, a topic that we're talking about that deals with the black men that said or did something stupid compared to a black woman. And I'm saying that to say, not because that's what happens generally. It's just the topics that we talk about. I'm saying that because we talk a lot about topics where, give Paul Pierce as an example,

where a black man said or did something and we have to give an opinion about it. I am at fault at times on this podcast for generalizing. so I get that. But I also think for the calls that you got, a lot of people I think are, it's like the low-hanging fruit. It's easy to be like, oh, Rachel's very anti-black man

because the way I met her was on a white TV show where she went on The Bachelor and he was white and then she became The Bachelorette and she picked somebody who wasn't black, white. And so it's like, well, then Rachel, every time I've seen Rachel date a man,

he doesn't look like us. So then when Rachel offers criticism or an opinion that isn't positive about the subject matter being a black man, which happens a lot on this podcast, it's, oh, Rachel has an issue with black men.

Obviously not true. But I can say that at times I'm at fault for generalizing or even making jokes or poking well, that's black men, because a lot of times on a podcast, we do talk about black man. But it doesn't mean that I don't have

a love for black men. I think I also, if you read my book, just not to plug my book in, you will know that I have a past. You will know that I have a past of my whole past is black men. The first time people met me is with white men. Black men are very important in my life. My best straight male friends are black. My best gay friends are black. My dad is black. My co-worker that a podcast with this black, everybody I dated except for the two guys on the show are black.

So a part, what did you say? Niggs. So a part of me talking about black men also is because I have a love for black men. I'm more connected to black men. I care more about black men more than I care about talking about as much as I care more about talking about black men

more than I care about talking about other races. It's not just saying just because I'm more connected. It's also a culture show. So my point being is, I think, dare I say, I think some people are a little sensitive or hyper sensitive that they feel that black men are under attack. And I think that also goes in to the opinions that they have. And I think, I don't even think it's just black men.

I think it's just men in general. You know, call it people not honoring the patriarchy in the way that they used to. call it women have more of a voice. They are more independent. They make more money. They're not willing to play the game necessarily the way that they used to. And they're more vocal and not as tolerant as they were with men now as they were in the past.

And so I think men are a little bit like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, why women are people coming after us? Because that's not how people used to talk about men in general. I guess I'll ask a very simple question. Is it okay for black men to get their feelings hurt? Yes. When black women are specifically leveling criticisms or opinions, negative opinions, about them. Or is it just black men's job to fix themselves so that those opinions or criticisms don't ring true? no, no, they absolutely have the right to get their feelings to hurt.

And what I would say is, if I hurt your feelings, tell me and let me explain what I meant or give me the opportunity to say I apologized or that's not what I meant. Absolutely, they are entitled to feel a certain way about things black women say or things that I say. All I say is give me the benefit of the doubt or give me the time and the space to explain myself. What I don't think is fair is what I think a lot of people, not saying to people who call you, but a lot of people do for me is,

oh, she dates white, she don't fuck with us anyway. That's not true. And that's not fair. Two things I'll say, and we can move on. One thing is this. If something doesn't hurt my feelings, then it doesn't hurt my feelings. I don't know what y'all want me to do.

Like, it didn't fucking bother me. Like, we was clowning and having fun, and it didn't bother me. So to y'all is out there that's like, van, you got to, if it don't bother me, then it don't bother me. And I don't know why it doesn't. bother me. Maybe because these

ladies are the ladies that I talk to all the time. So you know, and I'm, you know, maybe I'm, maybe they've broken me. But, no, you don't say that, but you know me. So you're adding context to it. I'm dating a black man. I showed him that whole clip. He laughed. He laughed. I thought it was

funny. Because he knows that I'm not serious. I'm making a joke. I mean, like, it's either. I now know that people think that I'm like against black men. So I keep playing into that as well, too. So I was like, well, if you black men, yeah, like, I'm not serious. Well, I will say this, though, to the point that you just made, black men are normally, I don't think that black men are, I don't think that direct criticisms of black women are substantive in any way, almost ever. I don't think I've ever heard one.

I've been like, yeah, we need to discuss that. I don't think I've ever heard one, right? because I kind of, you know, but I just got to be real with you. I'm definitely not listening to one with somebody with a white wife. That's out. You're definitely not what? I'm definitely not listening to one

with somebody with a white wife. That's out. If somebody had a white, I'm just being real with you because you said that, you said that a second ago. I'm like, I don't think that any, but if you, if, if a black,

I don't care. married, date, whatever you like is all on you. That's gravy is love. Go do your thing. That's no a good. But if you got a white girl and you start talking about black women,

I'm gonna be like, yo, what the fuck are you talking about? We've all been with white women. We've all had sex with the white ladies. I'm not saying that. That's not a thing. I'm not saying that that thing. But what I'm saying is, it does look away if you are with somebody that is not in that group because it looks like you've set a standard and you found someone who can meet that standard.

I get it. I get it. I'm not, I would not dismiss that. But I'm not in that place anymore. I'm not personally in that place. But all that to say, I won't generalize with Paul Pierce. I won't generalize. I won't say black men.

I'll just talk about Paul Pierce. You think there's any truth to what Paul Pierce is saying? You think that, let me ask you this. This happens every month. Every month we got to deal with. Not truth in what he's saying. Do you think there's truth in the fact that they actually think that? Well, no, that, yes.

I personally can do a test to black men telling me about us as black women and why they don't date us. Personal experience, like all the way back to college. When I went to UT, I had black men tell me that. So I don't think Paul Pierce said it out of, that it wasn't rooted in anything. I think he either feels that himself, talk to other black men who feel the same way. And that's why he could so quickly come to that conclusion. There's absolutely a narrative that other races are easier to deal with than black women.

There's that stereotype exists. And every month we got to deal with, if not sooner, some public figure putting black women down in order to uplift women of other races. But this is a Paul Pierce issue. I'm not going to say it's a black man issue. I will refrain from doing that. If racial starts generalizing black men,

we got to have like, is Derek's sleep? All I was about to say is, has the podcast put four-time training, of the year, Derek James, to sleep tomorrow. Well, actually, it's tonight in New York. Derek James is fighter. Derek say he's not crazy no more. Ream magazine card. I think it's on DeZone.

I already bought it, but I'm going to be working, so I'm not even going to get to see the damn fights. Ryan Garcia, Derek says he's okay. He beat up Devin Haney, who I've known for a long time. It was tough. So now you guys watch. Watch the fight and Derek will be awake. All right.

Let's talk about Terrence Howard, Donnie. He was on Bill Maher's podcast. Speaking about his, like, different roles he regretted passing on. One of those was playing Smokey Robinson. He met with Smokey. And he had to turn it down, he said, because he was in talks with Lee Daniels to play Marvin Gay. And while doing research for the role, he talked to Quincy Jones. and this is what he said.

But I'm asking Quincy, I'm hearing rumors that Marvin was gay, and Marvin was gay? And I'm like, was he gay? And Quincy is like, yes. Oh. He went around it with everything, and I was like, no. And I'm like, I could not.

I just feel like there's a, there's gay for real, and there's a point where guys get so much pussy, they're just like, oh, fuck it. Yeah, well, it would have been that, but they would have wanted to do that, and I wouldn't have been able to do that. Well, you mean you couldn't kiss a guy on screen at a movie? No.

No, because I don't fake it. I literally, it has to... I couldn't kiss a man either. That's true. And that would fuck me. I would cut my lips off. Yeah, no. If I kiss some man, I would cut my lips off.

Well, I would not do that. I'm about sick of tears. I feel like he's just always making the news for the wrong reasons. Listen, to each their own in regards to, first off, I never had heard Marvin Gay was gay. So whether there's, that's true or not, I just, I will never get over or believe that it is somebody else's place to out them in that way. Obviously, Marvin Gay is not with us. he can't come out and say what's true or what's not. So I just don't believe in that.

If that's something that's going to be in that movie, let that come out in that movie, and that's something that, you know, Lee Daniels, he said he was working on this with. That can be a part of the script. But for Terrence Howard to put that out there, I feel like it's very wrong. Second thing, we talked about homophobia in the black community

and particularly with black men. It's one thing if you have a preference and you have a do's and don't list when it comes to acting. You don't want to be naked. You won't kiss the same sex. Fine. But to then follow that up with, I would rip my lips off

as if the act of that is so disgusting. I couldn't even have that part of my body attached to me anymore. screams homophobia. And it's wrong. Look, if you're not comfortable with doing something on screen, you're not comfortable with doing something on screen. You know, there are a lot of things

when I look at Terence Howard's filmography that he has been comfortable doing on screen. He's been comfortable with hitting ladies on screen. He's been comfortable with pimping on screen. He's been comfortable with putting his son in

a trash can on screen. There's a lot of things that he's been comfortable doing on screen. But look, but look, this is what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Terence Howard, I'm just to be, you didn't see that part in Empire? That was tough scene. It was just so random.

What? You never said all right on the Empire. I'll watch all of them. And then Lee talked about that that actually happened to him or that was real. That pulled on the heartstrings when he put his son in the trash can in Empire. Now we know that Terrence probably wanted to put the motherfucker in the trash can for real. Um, so look, I'm not about to, look, if you don't want to do that, he don't want to do that. Like, if people have lines, some people don't want to get nude on screen. Some people don't want to do the love scenes on screen and all of that.

But it's always the extra shit that, to me, is evangelizing something that is destructive and dangerous to me. That it's, to me, when you get into that, it's like, okay, you've said this is not something you don't think you can do because you don't feel like you can get into it. That's fine. That's cool to each his own. but when you got a double, triple down on it,

now we're getting into a conversation that I feel like is not just dangerous but makes other people unsafe. Look, I don't want to do it. You know, it's not my cup of tea. I don't want to do it. But at the same time, I would like to think that if I was an actor,

that I could bring myself to perform in a way that was, unique and authentic to the role that I was playing. Right. And if I did do it, fuck it. So what? Getting to the character, play the character. I just see all these other stuff.

Y'all don't have no problem killing people and fucking, you know, beating up on ladies and being dealing dope and doing all that shit on screen. It's just a weird way that we- draw the lines, huh? It's homophobia. We have to call it what it is. I know that it's homophobia, Rach. I'm trying to go deeper into it.

And by the way, I just want to let all the black actors out there know. If you guys want to kiss a guy on screen or on camera, you're an actor. Do your thing. If you don't want to, fine as well. but I would just say you're doing a lot of other stuff on screen that's sometimes the stuff that you're doing

is actually honestly reinforcing negative stereotypes and all of that. But it's just weird it's weird to have that conversation. I thought we were past that point. No.

I thought we were past that point. No, remember when Denzel in the interview came out and said that they deleted the scene out of Gladiator 2 and remember how all up in arms people wore when he said he kissed a man. We're not past. Because they said

They were disappointed in Denzel. Now Dazel. Yeah, we're not past it. To them. Rachel. What? The judge ever run out on the court when you had any basketball games?

He came close. Donnie? All right. Yonis, him in the books, lost in the first round of the playoffs. And John Halliburton, the father of Tyrese in celebration, ran onto the court and got face-to-face with Janus. They kind of had to be separated. Yonis spoke on it after the game.

This is what Antsacoumpa had to say. This is the last time I'm going to say. I don't. I won't talk a lot to last game. It doesn't really matter. One thing I'll say is that I believe, like, being humbled in victory. That's how we are. Now there can be a lot of people out there that are like, no, when you win the game, you can't tag shit.

and, you know, it's a green light for you to be disrespectful towards somebody else. I disagree. I've won a championship. They haven't. Okay? And that doesn't say anything. I'm not trying to minimize their effort. But I remember when I won, my mom, my mom that she's never missed the games from February, February 11th or 13 when she came in Milwaukee.

against the Knicks, she'd never miss the game. When we won a championship, I remember my mom, she was scared to cross. She was like, am I allowed to come and hug my son? We should say that Halliburton's father went on to apologize for running out on the court and standing in front of a 6'11, 260, 270-pound man, whatever Yonis is,

and after like he wanted to do something, he apologized for that. He, I guess the moment, the moment took him. But I mean, I get, you know, I like this type of shit. You do. Yeah, I like it because

it's fucking ridiculous. Okay. Oh, wait. Donnie just said that after he apologized, John Halliburton didn't backtrack. Let's hear that sound, Donnie. When I turned, it might have seemed like I was looking at him, but I really wasn't. I were looking through him.

That's how it was in the moment. I know it looked like we were looking like I was staring him down, you know, but it wasn't like that. It was in the moment as if I were looking right through him. And yes, I had the banner in my hand going and I was yelling, yay, yay, yay, yay. Yonis never said anything to me. I never said anything to Yonis. There was no back and forth. But that changed when Janus went face to face with John near his baseline seats a few moments later.

He grabbed my hands. He put his forehead on my forehead. And he said, don't disrespect me. Don't effing disrespect me. Okay? And I said to him, I was not trying to disrespect you, which I wasn't. I'm telling you, I did not do that on purpose. I really did not.

And then I said to him, I love you. He said back to me, I love you. We patted chest. He gave us a thumbs up, and he walked away. So I'll imagine John Halliburton is probably in the 60s and 70s. And this is the question. The question is, let's say John Halliburton got off on Yonnas. He got the first shot.

Like my pop's rest in peace, I think that if my daddy, my father was 5-11. He was about 210 pounds, but he could fight. Softball. He boxed. If my dad, at 65, well, let's say 62

before his heart started going bad. If my dad at 62 got the first shot on Janus, my daddy would be on his ass. Straight like that. So you're trying to say John Halliburton, could possibly be Yombe Yom.

I'm saying that everybody out there always assumes that the NBA player, the athlete is just going to run through somebody. And I'm telling you, I got Derek James back there, four-time trainer of the year, Ryan Garcia,

tonight, Times Square, the headliner of the car. I'm throwing this, I'm throwing that right hand. John Halliburton's throwing that right hand. My daddy throwing that right hand. Everybody that's saying that Yonis would have just washed John Halliburton, I don't know.

I think my daddy at 62 will wash Yonis. Straight up. I think the problem is we're having a conversation about a dad who walked out on the court. That's his son. And confronted. Okay, but it confronted Janus. that's more of the issue. Now, you asked me at the top of this,

has my dad ever done that? No, but he has come close. See? My dad used to be very upset. I remember when I was the kid and my sister was playing in the playoffs. And my dad was so upset that the refs weren't calling anything

and these girls were all over my sister. My sister was point guard. They were pulling on her jersey. I watched my dad, because I didn't sit next to him because he yelled too much in games, marched from the top of the bleachers all the way down to the bottom

screaming and yelling at the refs. But he didn't go on the court. Probably because they were women. Probably because they were women. It stops there. But my point being is, to your point, the ridiculousness of it all, John Hallibird should have been on,

he should have been on the court celebrating the fact that his son is advancing in the playoffs and not taking the time to throw in Janus's face. He was looking through Janus. Sorry. You're right. You're right. That's an American black man. Let me tell you something. Part of the reason why he felt like he could do that to Janus is because Janus is foreign.

I promise. Part of the reason why he felt like he could do that to Janus, he wouldn't have done that to Isaiah Stewart. You got beef with foreign black men. I do not have a beef with them. What I'm saying is, first of all, I've known some of the toughest foreign black men they are. My dude Fabrice, shout out to my nigger Fabrice. He's from friends. Let me tell you something real quick, my nigga Fabrice. So back in the era of the gym,

back in the era of the gym, we became cool. I would say this is like, 2009, maybe, no, it was the Lakers championship year, so it was like, 0,8, 2009, 2010.

Everybody at the gym was cool. We was hooping every single day, 8 to 12. It's before I got to TMZ, every single day. And my man, Nano, worked at this bar downtown, called Royal Clayton's Irish Club.

That was the name of the bar. Now I don't work there. We go there and do the picklebacks. My man Fabrice, gigantic dude. Six foot four French guy, Duncan, but like a big guy, one of those big guys that's big, and you wouldn't think that he had hops like that

would be out there playing with us. But Friez didn't take no shit. Fabrice, he talked French. He talks French. But he didn't take no shit, though. He'll fuck over you. But when he talked, is French.

And that's funny. It's funny when a nigga gets mad. In French, it's funny. Okay? There are other guys that I know. My man Jimmy, UFC fighter, the toughest fighter in Phil's Jim.

When he gets to talking, he's English. So it's like, oh shit, but this nigga will really fuck you up. It's crazy. So anyway, we go down to Royal Clayton's one time and it's me and some of the other the guys that go down there, they're white.

Me and Fabrice, this is a two-nigger night. So it's Fabrice and it's my nigga Tanner and it's Archie. Arki is Mexican and it's Ryan and there's Nano and all of these guys and they get white drunk. And if you're ever around a bunch of white guys, when they get drunk,

they're much more affectionate with each other and they're jumping on each other and they're smacking balls. Have you ever been around? around this? When white dudes get drunk and white... You know I have my one-nigger night, so you know I have. So when white dudes gets drunk, it's like, yeah, the dick, dude, yeah, the dick.

It's like weird. They jumping on each other's backs and all of that stuff. They get rowdy. They get rowdy and real playful with each other. Yo, Fabrice is not used to this. Fabrice is not use of this. He goes so weird. And Fabrice is like,

like Ryan grabs, like, Archie from the bat. And he's like, oh, and he's like, you, yeah, Ben, Van. Van. I think your accent makes it funny. Oh, my God. Fabrice, he's not used to this. He's like, Van, Finn, Finn, Finn.

Finn. He couldn't, he's going to have him from back. Fabrice speaks great English. I'm just saying he sees Fritz. And this nigga was so mad. Oh my God. What a fun night. This nigga was so mad.

But he was big and he wanted to fight the niggas that we came there with. But like when he gets mad, it was funny. Fabrice is in no way a whole. Fabrice will beat a nigger's ass. He was tough from the slums of France or wherever. But it was just a funny night. And so I think that with John Halliburton walked out there, that maybe he got it fucked up a little bit because of the way Yonis talks.

Maybe he thought that Yonis won't fuck him up because that'll be a thing. Niggers do that. That was a funny night. These guys got so fucking drunk. Like, they're so drunk. They're talking about it. They're getting in each other's faces. They're sitting on each other's laps in the bar and all of this stuff.

And Fabrice is watching this. And I don't know if he was around many white boys like that in France. And I'm telling him, I'm like, brus, you never been around a bunch of white boys? Like they, like you got to protect your shit. Maybe they don't act like American drunk white boys. Maybe it's not the same. Maybe they don't. But I'm like, it's like you is like, and I tell him, I'm like, bro, I've been to France before.

I see y'all, y'all kiss each other on the cheek. It's a greeting. That's a greeting. He grabbed him from the back. I'm like, It's funny. It's funny. All right.

We got a couple of interviews coming up for you guys. I know how much you guys love that. But before we get to the interviews, like, I want to, they love the interviews. People love when we talk to people. I just heard of some sarcasm. Go ahead.

Look, Rachel, do you love the Thought Warriors? I do. I love them, too. I do. I really do. They treat me like shit. and I love them. These are some of my favorite people. Every time I meet a thought warrior out there,

it's always one of the nicest, most awesome. Also, most educated, I would say that we have a very educated and with it audience. They, you know, they fuck over me, but I fuck with them. So, you know, we're going to give them a couple more interviews. I want to talk about something right now. I want to talk about what's wrong against society. Donnie, can we put this video up? this is what's wrong with society right now.

I want Derek James four-time training in a year to look at this. This video right here, these are the types. I'm going to give you guys a dissertation. This is the type of nigger to get out of your crew. Get this nigga. Okay, see this girl is twerking, and then this guy is trying to be funny. Boom. He throws her on the side of the goddamn thing.

Now, she got chiropractor bills probably for the next 10 years. Now, look, you guys, run it back again, Donnie. running back again. Look, she's twerking, she's doing a thing. She's a camera. He wants to be the star of the show. So he's going to pick her up and try to throw her into the pool

to be the star of the show. And now we don't get no twerking. She's hurt, and he's embarrassed. There are so many lifeless. Look at her. It's moving. We like that. Everybody's having fun.

Again, you guys, I couldn't be more serious about this right now. Get that guy out your crew. Get him out of your crew. What would you have done if you had seen this? Because it is amazing to me that, and maybe everybody's just stunned and it seems to have happened very quickly.

But what would you have done as a man you were at this party attending it and you saw that happen? Well, I mean, look, I'll be honest with you. if you're the first thing you're going to do is check on her. Like you straight. I mean, there's two reasons why you check on her. And I'll just be honest with the first reason why you check on her

is because you are legitimately concerned with the fact that she busted her back on the side of the pool. Rachel, you know the second reason why you check on her. You check on her because now you got an end to talk to her. All right? So now, hey, girl, you straight? You straight, a nigga tripping. nigga tripping, girl.

I would, while you twerking, I will worship that beauty. You don't have to worry about that. That nigga tripping. Then for the player proof crew, we're going to put the drive on him, whether we know him or not. We're going to put the drive on him.

This lame-ass nigger just fucked up to booty shaking. He fucked up to twerking. We're going to put the drive on him. She popping it. We wanted to keep popping it. We wanted to have fun. Now, you've been to a point. party. It's guys that make the whole pool party

about pushing girls in the pool. Like, you've seen that. Yeah, they do. Yes, they do. It's guys that make the whole pool party about pushing girls in the pool. That's one thing. But that video is so indicative to me of how things have changed. First of all,

this guy overestimated his physical strength. He got everything wrong in one video. He overestimated his physical strength. He could not pick her up. No. He dropped her. He overestimated his importance

and he overestimated his utility in that party. No one came to see you Otis. We had a pool party. We came for the ass. This guy. Nobody came to see you. No one, Donnie run it again. No one came to see you.

It's a pool party. And nobody's even, look, what, Are you doing? What are you doing? No one came to see you. Look at everybody standing around looking like, like, what's wrong with this nigger? Is one girl shaking ass? Everybody else ain't got enough Casamigos in them yet.

And this guy is ruining the entire pool party by doing some shit. He can't even do. Let me ask you this. This guy is a party promoter. Came out this guy as a party promoter. Do, is this a personality? trade that is indicative to party promoters.

Sean Dickerson wouldn't have done that. Sean would never do that. Devin Anderson wouldn't have done that. Milk wouldn't have done that. Franz wouldn't have done that. Mark Tung wouldn't have done that. And Mark could probably pick her up. I'm telling you, Vic wouldn't have done that.

The party promoters, I know, they wouldn't have done that. As a matter of fact, if you would have done that in the party, they kick you right out. You never be able to come back to Poppy. You never be able to come back to Harriet's rooftop. You never be able to come back to Sadiq Wednesday nights here in L.A. at the highlight room.

I've actually never been there before. Sean does it every time. It's great. The people there are too beautiful. I'm intimidated to go to Sadiq. I sometimes want to go to Sadiq. I'll sing you to Sadiq. I'll send Kaleika to Sadiq.

It's not there anymore, by the way. Oh, well, wherever it is. I'm not good looking enough to be there. I don't want to go to Sadiq. It's for beautiful people. But I'll tell you this. I saw this video and I was angry. I was angry at this nigga.

What are we doing, guys? Guys, what are we doing? It's not about you. Nobody came to see you. We came to see women. And you made this lady unsafe. There is one way to make a woman unsafe that's easier than any other way. And it's to overestimate yourself.

Now look at her Now look at her She got to go get it back brains No yeah This was this was crazy I feel like the party promoters Several of them I knew from back in the day in Texas

Would have done something like this Pick a girl up throwing the pool Mm-hmm Really? Look Put you the girl in the pool I feel like I knew a lot Yeah

Back in the day I could see this It's even worse because he's a party promoter She's twerking at your party She's twerking at your party You want to be the story Brough, you're not the story We just got to This and you know

I'm gonna be honest with you Our young I'm not gonna use the YN thing Because I think it's actually Becoming a racial slur now But the problem that we had With our young brothers We got an OG crisis in America

We got It's some dudes somewhere that like It's like yeah man When the girls start showing that ass, I like to pick them up and throw them in the pool. Embarrassing. Make it look like a fool in front of the whole party. Because what you having fun shaking ass for? We got an OG crisis.

We're going to start having OG seminars and sending people to OG schools. Because a lot of these OGs out here is just niggers that's bad bread. Whatever, I'm out of here. I'm done. I piss me off. And it should. And it should. All right, Rachel, introduce these to me.

Hopefully nobody goes to any other parties anymore, but sorry, go ahead. we got coming up. We got two great guests coming up on the podcast. We have John King, Jr., former U.S. Secretary of Education under the Barack Obama administration. He's coming on to talk to us a little bit about what's going on with the Department of Education, what needs to be done about education in this country, and promoting his new book that he has. Oh, so that's a great interview. I feel like to tease that.

We were going to talk about that. We're doing it now, finally, on the podcast. And then we have Lisa Cortez coming on, director, I believe the EP of a new docu series, True Crime Ducsaries coming out on Hulu, May 6th. It's called Murder Has Two Faces. Very interesting highlighting the untold cases, particularly in these three episodes, women of color that are lesser known cases, but comparable and similar, some of the more popular cases of white women.

All right, we'll get to both of those Our other side is break. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support.

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Okay, you guys, we have a very special guest. We have talked a little bit about kind of what's going on currently with the administration and with education. And we're bringing on an expert, someone who has served in President Barack Obama's cabinet as the 10th U.S. Secretary of Education, Chancellor of State University of New York, and has a new book out called Teacher by Teacher, the people who change our lives. We're talking to John King, Jr. John. John, thank you so much for joining us today on Higher Learning. Thanks for that opportunity.

Glad to talk with you. Glad to talk with you, too. Okay. Before we get into your book, I want to talk a little bit about what's going on with the Department of Education because we got this big announcement, maybe like a month ago, maybe somewhere around there, that they were taking the steps to dismantle the Department of Education.

Then I feel like we haven't really heard much about it since then. Have you, is there an update? And if not, when this announcement came out, you who have been Secretary of Education, what were your thoughts surrounding it? Look, it's really disturbing. The department plays a crucial role in the country. Education is a national imperative. And this is going to be very damaging.

So some of the things have already happened. There are about half as many people working at the Education Department today as there were on January 20th. So that's a lot of very talented, committed civil servants who've been treated horribly and who've lost their roles. Now, the department has kind of four core functions. One is getting resources to vulnerable students, students who are in schools that serve low-income communities, students with disabilities, English learners. There are fewer people to get those resources to schools and a real worry that the administration is going to try to cut those funding sources, which will mean larger class sizes, fewer AP classes, teacher layoffs.

Second major area of work for the department is our financial aid system, hell grants, which make it possible for students to go to college, the student loan system. We're very worried about that. Will that be undermined by having so many fewer people there to administer that program? And again, will they propose cuts, even though that will be bad for the economy, bad for our national security? Third major function of the department is civil rights enforcement. Departments where you go, if you are being discriminated against in the basis of race, sex, disability. They received more than 20,000 complaints last year for civil rights violation. But now they've laid off a whole bunch of the folks whose job was to investigate those complaints

and hold states and districts accountable. The last piece is the department that provides information, transparency, tells us, you know, where are we struggling, where are we doing well, what should we highlight that we could replicate? All of that is in jeopardy. Many of the people who do that work have been let go. They claim they're going to keep doing that work, but it's hard to understand how that's going to happen without the people.

So it's a really scary time for the education sector. In your estimation, what's at the root of the Trump administration's aim to gut the Department of Education? I think it's two things. One is a sort of philosophical skepticism about government. You know, a lot of the Elon Musk-Douge kind of mindset that there's that government activities are a waste that the people who work for government should be respected. I think there's some philosophical orientation that's driving it. But the other, and this is the more dangerous thing, is I think there really is this effort to try to roll back many of the achievements of the civil rights movement. And that's really what the Education Department was, right?

It's an extension of the idea that the federal government needs to make sure that states and districts treat students fairly. And that history is grounded in the civil rights movement. Yeah, but when you say the rolling that back, I guess the question is why? Is that because they don't like the advancements that were made by the civil rights movement? Is it a money-saving thing? It is a political philosophy? Or do you think that there are parts of this administration that are anti-civil rights progress? Are they speaking to a base that agrees with that?

Yes. I mean, I think it's all of those, right? It's that they think this is a way to save money. They are folks who are in the base that supports the current administration that don't like the things that the civil rights movement produced and have been trying for years in different ways to undermine that. You see that in the Supreme Court banning the use of race and college admissions. This is about trying to undo

the progress we've made on issues like diversity and inclusion over the last 50 years. So they made the announcement. Obviously, this isn't something that can happen overnight. They are making cuts, as you pointed out, but how likely is it that they'll really be able to dismantle it? Is this something that's just they're just putting out there like we've seen them do in other areas? Or is this something legally that can be done?

And if it is, where will we see pushback? Will it be, you know, Congress, judicial, or maybe even just from the teaching community? You know, they can't do it without Congress. And I think at the end of the day, Congress is not going to want to see the department eliminated. But what they're doing through these layoffs, through cutting grant programs, is they're trying through a backdoor to have the same impact of undermining the work of the department. And I think we're going to see more of that, you know, in the months ahead. Unless Congress steps up and not only keeps the department operating, but actually fulfills their constitutional responsibility and says if we appropriate money for something, you executive branch have to spend the money on that thing. talking about impoundment.

So if, so let's get back. It's an interesting question. So they can't undo the Department of Education. They can't get rid of it without Congress and they're not going to have the votes. That's not going to happen. How much damage can they do? If let's say the president decides that he's not going to spend the money, He's going to be in clear violation of the Empowerment Act.

He's not, he doesn't care to, he doesn't seemly doesn't care about court orders or legal standing or anything like that. How much damage can they do to the Department of Education? Can they do anything to the Department of Education in the time that they're here that can't be undone by an incoming administration? You know, from a policy perspective, you could try to put it back together. but in the meantime, you'd have a lot of students who are hurt. One of the clearest examples is the FAFSA, the free application for federal student aid, right?

It's the entry point to get Pell Grants, federal student loans, state financial aid, institutional financial aid from your college, right? If the FAFSA breaks because they have laid off so many of the people who work on the FAFSA, FFSA breaks and students can't get access to financial aid, you could lose a huge number of students who might just give up. If they go on and that form doesn't work, they go on three or four more times, they just throw their hands up and they say, oh, this isn't going to work. Maybe college isn't for me.

And so I'm worried about that kind of damage. Or, you know, you think about the office for civil rights. You are a family. Your kid isn't getting the services. entitled to, they have a disability. You file a complaint. There's nobody to process that complaint, and your kid can't get access to a quality education. Now, maybe they're in third grade. By the time the administration is done, your kid is in seventh grade. It's a lot of lost time. You and I have both done work with the College Football Playoff Foundation and speak to teachers

across the country. And, you know, part of that is to encourage and uplift and inspire. But when you have things like this that are happening and you're seeing, they're trying to take the steps to dismantle the Department of Education. What do you see as the future of education? And do you see this mass exodus of teachers not wanting to be a part or people are not wanting to be a part of the teaching profession anymore? I'm worried about that, but I think there's something we can do about it, which is we have to make sure two things, that local government and state government steps up and steps in. They can't make up for all the federal dollars, but they can make sure that students are getting quality educational opportunities. And the other thing we have to do is we have to lift up teachers,

and that's part of what motivated me and writing the book. Teachers are so vital to everything in our society, right? Every industry depends on teachers preparing the workforce they need. Teachers are the engine of social mobility. It's the reason that there is the American dream, right, this idea that regardless of where you start, if you get a quality education and you work hard, there's a path to opportunity. All of that would be lost if we didn't have our teachers. So we have to invest in our teachers. We have to celebrate our teachers. We have to vote like we care about our teachers, right? Next week is teacher appreciation week. A lot of folks are going to get, you know, Starbucks gift cards. That's nice. But even nicer is people acting, whether it's in

local elections, state elections, or federal elections, like they truly care about their teachers. I want to ask you one question. And it's a question that's sort of close to my heart. some time ago on a on a different podcast um i did sort of a humorous video encouraging people to read because you know it was because of connie west he was coming out and saying that he doesn't like to read and then he was saying the stupidest possible things that one can say and he's still doing that okay um and as i went through all of these books that i was encouraging uh brothers to read there were people in the comments that were saying, hey, just to let you know,

there is a really important problem with black male literacy, particularly middle school age black boys who are behind in reading. And so as we're having conversations about books that you should be reading, we should also be having conversations about whether or not you can read that.

That's right. Okay. And since then, I've explored this issue, and it is shocking in some places. What can we do about it? What can we do about the fact that so many of our young black boys are struggling and having problems with reading? You know, a lot of the origin of this comes back to a mistake that was made in how reading is taught that got popular. which was this idea that, you know, if you hand kids a book and, you know, you give them a comfy place to read and you encourage them to read, that reading is going to happen sort of organically. And that all you have to do is sort of chat with kids about what they've read, and that's going to take care of them becoming readers.

But in fact, reading is a skill. there's a science now of brain research that tells us that far what students need, many, not all, but many students, they need decoding. They need someone to sit with them and help them associate sounds with letters and to work them through each of the words so that they can understand the mechanics of reading. That's not enough. You also need to build your vocabulary, You need to learn stuff about the world. We need to talk about what we've read so that we can really understand it. But if you never get phonics instruction, for many students, they will never be comfortable readers

because they didn't get that phonics instruction. How early does that happen? You really need to start that kindergarten, first grade, second grade. And if you don't have it by third grade, you are really going to struggle. And the level of intervention you're going to need, you're going to need an intense. you know, one-on-one or small group tutoring to make up for that gap in the foundation. And so some states have done a good job of trying to change their teacher training so that teachers really have an appreciation of this science of reading. But other places are way behind.

And, you know, if you're not a good reader, it's very hard to access any other aspect of your education. You're going to struggle in math. You're going to struggle in science. You're going to struggling, social studies, and you're going to come to resent school. That's what I was going to ask you is, is this being implemented? You know, you're talking about the science. Is this being implemented into the classrooms? But you're saying that it is in some places and it's not in others. Exactly.

Like Mississippi, for example. Now, Mississippi, you know, it's a very poor state. It's often at the bottom of rankings of education. But actually, over the last few years, Mississippi has moved. up from sort of the very bottom to about middle of the pack, which is a lot of progress. And the way they did it was a big bet statewide on the science of reading, training teachers, changing how their teacher prep programs work, changing the curriculum in schools so that students really were getting that foundational reading support. Wow. Oh, go ahead, Van Gogh.

Real quick, before I move off this. who do we pressure for this? If you care about the literacy, young black boys, young black people, I say young black boys because they're lagging behind black girls in this instance. How do you take this what you've said success that's been had in Mississippi?

How do you mobilize this and make this into something that governments, elected officials, education officials care about. What do we do about it? Two places to focus. Your state legislators because states provide a huge share

of the funding for schools. The federal government actually provides about 10%. The rest comes from the state level. So getting state legislators to understand the science of reading and to pass state laws that require teachers

to be trained in the science of reading require schools to adopt curricula that reflect the science of reading. The other place to go is local school boards. You know, we have 13,000 school districts in the United States. We are a very decentralized system. And every school board is making the decision around what the curriculum is going to be, what the professional development for teachers is going to be. And, you know, a lot of folks don't vote in school board elections.

You know, when you talk about voting, most people go right to presidential. elections, maybe congressional elections. Very few folks vote in those school board elections. School board members often are very anonymous. They don't feel accountable to the community. And we really should be putting pressure on those folks. What's the reading performance now? What steps are you taking to improve reading performance? And folks should know if reading performance isn't improving, then they're not going to keep getting elected to the school board. Where can you go to, like you pointed out the progress that's been made in Mississippi. Where can you go to see maybe the list of the different states and where the different reading levels are just so people can be informed or even locally, like, where can you go to know what's going on in your schools?

That is such a perfect question. Ties right back to what we're talking about about the Education Department. So the best tool, the reason we know about Mississippi's progress is the National Association. assessment of educational progress, the NAEP assessment. And that's taken every couple of years, and it gives us information on every state's performance in reading and math, particularly for fourth and eighth graders. That is one of the core functions of the education department. The people who work on the NAEP, many of them, have been laid off in the last few months. So I am very worried about the NAEP, because without that, we will be flying blind.

So your book, teacher by teacher, the people who change our lives is available now. It's about your journey, and it's about a love of education. You know, I've always loved teachers. You know, I've always had a good relationship with all of my teachers back in the day. There was the one time, John, where we had a substitute teacher in this NUA's class. and it was Kara's grandfather was the substitute teacher and he fell asleep in the class so I put showgirls on in the class

so that we could all watch it. We were in the 19th grade. I've seen showgirls with Elizabeth Berkeley. That's terrible. That is terrible. But he went to sleep and we were supposed to be watching something in Civis class and I did take advantage of a teacher

at one time I put show girls on. It led to a quite lucrative business that I was able to start there in high school. But for you, where did your love of education come from? And why was it so important for you to write a book that you feel like is a love letter to teachers? You know, it really comes back to my childhood. So both my parents were teachers. So I always heard about school, you know, as a little kid.

I was, the dinner table conversation was about school. But what really made school so meaningful in my life was losing my parents. My mom passed when I was eight. I lived with my dad who was struggling with Alzheimer's. So home was chaotic and scary. Nobody knew that he was sick and nobody knew what home was like for me. I didn't know if he would be sad, angry, violent from one night to the next. And the thing that saved me was school.

School was the place that was safe and supportive and consistent. And I had this amazing teacher in fourth, fifth, sixth grade, who I talked about in the book, Mr. Oswald, who quite literally saved my life. If I hadn't been in this class, I wouldn't have made it through that period. You know, we read the New York Times every day in his class. We did all kinds of field trips. Showgirls?

No showgirls. Museum of Natural History, the ballet. We did productions of Shakespeare in elementary school, right? And so his class was a place where I could be a kid when I wasn't able to be a kid at home. And then when my dad passed when I was 12, I moved around different family members, different schools. But it was always teachers who gave me a sense of hope and purpose. And so really I'm wanting this book to tell their story. Because if, you know, I've had this incredible career because of them, because of what they made possible in that.

Wow. That's beautiful. Go ahead. It is beautiful. I was going to say, there was a teacher, Mr. Newbauer. And he let me direct in the sixth grade. He let me direct a play. He passed away.

He's gone now. But in the sixth grade, I was in, we had moved out here. And I was talking about the fact that I wanted to be in the movies, and he let me direct a play. And I just never forget that. It was a fun situation. I didn't know that you could direct a play. I didn't know what that meant. But I directed a play in the sixth grade.

And then that was, like, him and I, he took me to sizzler. We talked about the direction of the play. I gave. he told me how to direct, he gave me the whole deal. I always think about that guy, you know, he didn't, he didn't, he was, he didn't live to see, you know, us win the Academy Award or anything like that.

But just after that I knew I could do it, Mr. Newbauer. That's beautiful. I mean, that, that is what teachers can do, right? They can give you a sense of possibility and expose you to things you never otherwise would have considered. Yeah, we, in the foundation, at the foundation, we have a saying that, you know, it only takes one.

And I think everybody, we always encourage people to remember that one teacher that made a difference in your life. Before we let you go, just you writing a book, dedicating it to the teachers who means so much to you,

to your parents who were teachers. My mom was a teacher, a van talking about the teachers that made a difference in his life. They play such a crucial role in shaping, I think, our identity. But the pay doesn't reflect that. What?

I don't even know how to necessarily phrase this question, but more about like, what can we do for the pay or what can be done for the pay to reflect the value that teachers have in our lives? Yeah, you know, two things. One is, you know, goes back to these state legislatures. That is one of the principal places where we could put, pressure on folks to pay teachers fairly.

You know, some states do a much better job than others, and we have to help state legislators and governors understand that the state's economic future comes back to teachers, attracting good teachers and keeping good teachers. But the other thing I'd love to see is the federal government step up and say, and I know we're very far from this right now, But I would love for the federal government to say, if you are willing to teach in a high needs community or in a subject area where we have shortages, math and science teachers, bilingual teachers, teachers or students with disabilities, we're going to pay for your education. So that folks aren't feeling like if I choose teaching, I'm going to be saddled with debt that I cannot cover.

John, I have an idea before we let you go. I've thought about this for a while. I want you to think about this. It's a radical idea. All right, we need the Department of Education for this. So let's cross our fingers and hope that Rachel's vote for Trump didn't destroy our opportunity. That's not true. If didn't destroy this.

Okay. What if through the Department of Education, we set up a teacher achievement type of thing where teachers test into it or whatever. And if you are one of these accredited teachers from the Department of Education, which we would encourage everyone to be, you pay no state and federal income taxes ever. Like you don't pay state and federal income taxes. It is a, you are, we make teaching a public good. We have to make sure that we have quality teachers in here teaching a public good. But as a public good, you are exempt from state and federal income taxes. We don't tax the teachers.

Add student loans. Add student loans. Let's just get rid of those two. Forgive them immediately. I mean, both points are right, right? Like that, if we don't find a way to pay people more, which makes it impossible for people to choose teaching. and they feel pressure than to choose something else that is more lucrative. And many times we lose great teachers who want to stay in the profession.

But they just feel like, you know, I want to buy a house, I want to have kids, and I can't do it on this salary. So whether it's through the tax code or through loan forgiveness, we have to show how much we value teachers, not just through doing nice things, but through, you know, making sure people get paid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you.

John, thank you for joining us on higher learning today. We will continue to fight the battle of education. It is one of the most important battles to fight. He's the author of Teacher by Teacher, the people who change our lives. It is available now. John King, Jr., thank you for joining us on our learning. Thanks so much.

I'll tell everyone where they can get the book. Amazon, Barnes & Noble, independent booksellers. Thank you, John. We appreciate your time. Thank you, John. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors.

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HAPs hit different. Order now at order. dot sweetgreen.com. Okay, there's a new docu-series coming out. It is called Murder Has Two Faces. It is streaming on Hulu, May 6th. We are here with Grammy-nominated and Emmy-winning director and producer Lisa Cortez, who is behind this docu-series.

You produce and directed 2023's Little Rich I am everything for CNN films. By the way, I loved that because I am one of the world's big Little Richard fans. You got good. I love Little Richards, an icon and a legend. This docu-series is delving into some of the country's lesser-known murders. And it seems like all of the country's murders are well-known now because true crime is such a big deal. With all the true crime out there, thank you for joining me.

us on higher learning, Lisa. With all the true crime out there, what makes this show different and makes this something that people can tune into and enjoy in a different way than maybe some of the other stuff that's out there? Well, the premise of the show is that we are obsessed with certain stories

that we keep revisiting, whether it's Gabby Petito, Lacey Peterson, Shang-Jalee. But what we don't know is that there are parallel stories of women of color that we never heard

about that take place in the same time period, in the same cities, and these stories did not get any visibility. So when I looked at the true crime genre as a storyteller, I wanted to ask the question, why don't we know these stories? And let's put a spotlight on these characters and their families. and in some cases, see if we can find justice and closure for the participants. Yeah, it's really fascinating because I really, when you compare the cases, the lesser known ones, never had heard of these people who had lost their lives in very similar tragedies. And as you sit down, which I'm sure is very difficult, as you sit down with family members and they have to revisit that, you know, what happened to their family member.

Do you also talk to the police departments as well or maybe even attorneys to try to seek justice, as you said? Yeah, we have a lot of buckets that we fill in the storytelling. So, of course, we want to speak to the family first because the big picture that we are creating is, who was this person that was lost? We want to restore their humanity. They're not a statistic.

And then we speak to journalists. We speak to sociologists. We speak to FBI people. In some cases, we do speak to the police. And in others, they abstain from speaking to us. But, you know, our first episode is a comparison of Lacey Peterson and Evelyn Hernandez. two women, they are both pregnant. They are both found in the same San Francisco Bay.

There's a very few months in between the disappearance of Evelyn Hernandez and then Lacey Peterson. The same FBI diver worked on these cases. But Evelyn Hernandez is a single mother with a five-year-old son who also did. disappeared and has never been found. Her child that she was pregnant with has not been found. The police in that case, what I love is we got archival footage of back in the day, them talking and investigating. And then we see Holly Perea, the detective now, who's like, this is a case that has stuck with me. I will never give it up. And it is an open case. And at the end of the episode, we have a number you can call because we're hoping that.

some brave person is going to come forward in these 20 plus years and provide information so that justice can happen in this case. When you're doing these interviews with these various law enforcement officers and officials and people like that, were any of them shameful or was there any, I guess, guilt on their part, that maybe some of these cases weren't or various media figures as well, that some of these cases didn't get the same spotlight that other more well-known cases of white women got? Well, we'll talk about missing white women syndrome next, but it's in response to your question about the police. You know, in our third episode,

we look at the youngest black serial killer pad. It's a case that took place in New Jersey, and we contrast that with the credit. there were two incredible detectives who actually helped to solve that case and what they are respectful of is their brothers in blue who maybe did not pick up on early clues who did not listen to a survivor and there you know there is a fraternity there so they're never going to say oh that person did it the wrong way what they do say is that they recognize the value of everyone.

So, you know, listen, in every story, there's the people who get it, who do not let their unconscious bias get in the way. And we certainly spoke to these guys who were fantastic. And they kind of wondered, they said they would have done it differently.

You know, that's the kind of fine line that they're going to, you know, that they need to walk for the fraternity that they're a part of. You mentioned missing white women's syndrome. Can you talk a little bit about it? And is that something? Is the frustration with that? Maybe something that really inspired you to say this, there are other stories that need to be told. Well, you know, the Lake Gwen Eiffel, she coined this term, the missing white woman syndrome.

And it is about the inordinate visibility and compassion that is given to missing white women that is not afforded to women of color. And in our series, we're looking at black women, Latin women, Asian women. And, you know, one of the things that was important for me is that we look at all of the issues that are a part of this disparity. It's socioeconomic. It is the resources that the police have. It is just the outreach to publicity. A lot of times people don't know that with Lacey Peterson, you know, she disappears on Christmas Eve. The Christmas Day, there is a member of the family who's a publicist

who is able to release to the AP nationwide this story. Well, Evelyn Hernandez is a single pregnant woman with a five-year-old son. She's an immigrant. She's struggling. Her family does not have these resources.

She even has a sister who is death. And so her, that sister, when she contacts the police and they come to her, nobody comes to help with the signing and to, you know, there's no ASL interpreter. So you see this discrepancy between the resources that are there to elevate the humanity of missing and murdered. women of color, indigenous women, and that is a part of the conversation I think we need to have. It's like, this show is great entertainment, but it's also asking you, why don't I know these stories? What's wrong with the system? And the system is broad. It's not just the media that wants the top sizzle story.

It's not police who do not take people seriously because of their past or who they perceive them to be, it's all of these things. Yeah, those cops got to stop protecting each other. You got to kick that fraternity off campus. Police, I'm still upset. Okay. So tell us where people can find the show and tell us about Robin Roberts as a host. Down there in Louisiana, one of the most familiar faces in all of media.

Tell them where they can find. find it where they can watch it and how they tune in. So Robin Roberts is a partner on this. She appears on screen. She's ever done true crime before. But she was so moved by the interrogation that we had in the storytelling. And as a journalist, it's things that she's been looking about and has been questioning. And oftentimes in the story, you're going to see.

images of Robin from 20 years ago where she's actually reporting on some of these stories. She is brilliant. She is so compassionate. And when she comes on set and speaks to a family member, there is so much security that they have of being in her hands. And what they share was amazing. It's some things that have never been told before. So the series, there's three episodes, Murder has two faces that start streaming on Hulu on May the 6th. Yeah. I love true. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm shocked you didn't mention your fascination with interrogation videos that he's been, you've been basically studying at this point. Lisa, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for bringing awareness to stories that were unknown to so many people. And I would imagine that there's going to be a demand for more, more stories to be told. Unfortunately, there are a lot more stories, but there is also in the telling of these stories, the ability to write wrongs and to bring closure.

For me, as a filmmaker, people are like, what is the connection between a biodoc on Little Richard and a true crime series? And my answer is, in both cases, the storytelling is not about the surface. It is about the shared humanity that we have with these people that we think we know their stories. And then the nuances of who they are and what happened to them are something that is a revelatory. And it makes for education, entertainment, and in some cases a call to action for change. Thank you so much for joining us on higher learning. Thank you.

I listen to you guys all the time. I appreciate you so much. Oh, we appreciate that. We appreciate that. All right, before we get out of here, is one of these mics going? Can we? I want to hear from four-time training of year,

Derek James, real quick. Derek, come over here before we get out of here and talk to the people real quick. He's got, yeah, yeah, pulled a chair up over here, four-time training of year, Derek James. former trainer,

Ariel Spence, former trainer, um, Uh, Jamel Charlo, Anthony Joshua, all of these guys. The fights are tonight. They're in New York City. They're on the zone.

Ryan Garcia is fighting who? He's fighting, uh, Role Romero. Oh, yeah. Ryan's fighting Roeley tonight. So if you guys don't know, Roli Romero,

Rale Romero is, it used to be one of Floyd's fighters. I think he still is kind of sort of. Kind of sort of, but he's fighting it. Yeah. Real quick, Rachel's from Oak Cliff. Right.

You're from Oak Cliff. Right. Derek. Rachel has several beefs. Okay. She's a good athlete. Right. She's a young woman.

Can you get Rachel right with these hands? I get her right. You can get her right. Listen, I'm going to get both of you all together. Give you your workout, but then we're going to come together. I'm going to work with her also. You're going to work with Rachel as well. I get a right.

I have a bad shoulder. Oh, my God. So I just want to be aware of that what I need to do I need to do. to make sure, you know, a bad shoulder. We can work around that. We can work around that. Listen. But if somebody gets on that butt,

you'll change that. You don't care about the pain when somebody's trying to fight somebody off you. I know that's right. It's true. So don't come in the room with the excuse. You're right. I'm not mad at it.

I'm not mad at it. I'm not mad at it. I actually need to be, like whenever I have a trainer, that's how I need you to come at me. Because otherwise I'm going to push back. I like it. Derek, I'm going to ask you a real question now.

Okay. Derek, I'm going to ask you a real question now. Right. I'm going to buy this fight. Okay. Over the past year or two, Ryan Garcia has said a lot of things that have pissed me the hell off. I got you. Yeah. A lot of stuff that has pissed me to hell off Derek James four-time training at you. Right. Is Ryan good now or is he still kind of saying crazy stuff and acting crazy? You got him right? If he was doing that, I wouldn't be right here. Gotcha.

So it was a conversation we had to go through and talk to and work it out or whatever. So, yeah, that would be the case. I wouldn't be doing it. What was wrong with him? Hey, man, life. They said life is life and the things happen in your life and being young, 25 years old. I mean, you know, it's kind of, you know, difficult to deal with whatever. And, yeah, man, but that's in the past.

It's in the past. Royal Romero's in the future. and then a rematch with Devin Haney is after that. Right after that, yeah, no doubt. Is there a part of you that wants Devin to win the rematch because he's black? I want... I'm a joke. Don't answer.

Don't answer that question. You're his trainer. I thought about messing with you. But just so people don't know, Devin Haney was a young fighter I got a lot of love for it, but he was pretty well destroyed in the first fight. Couldn't get out of the way of the left hook. Ryan Garcia then popped for a banned substance.

I think the fight went to no contest. Will, is that fight, will the result be the same? Or do you think that Devin Haney poses a different challenge for Ryan Garcia now that he's been in with him once? You know, I'm sure to be the same because I believe in, I believe in myself. So you talk about Ryan, you talk about me. So I believe that's going to be the same result. Now, it could end in a different manner.

Yeah. But it may be, because seeing somewhere else, you know, the situation may be different when too much, you know, it didn't call a lot of knockdowns. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so that might be a different situation. Not to say, I mean, I like to refer me too, but, you know. Yeah.

All right, that's a quick bite right there. For the boxing fans, we got Derek James, four-time trainer a year. We're hanging out here in New York. Look, I'll tell you got something right now. He's from Oak Cliff in Texas, the same place that Rachel's from to Oak Cliff. We've had a lot of people from Oak Cliff on the podcast and hardly anybody from Baton Rouge. Okay. So I just want everyone to know that this is higher learning Oak Cliff because we had we had him on.

We had Jonathan Majors. Jonathan Majors on. Shout out to Joe. You know what? Fuck now. We had Jonathan Majors, the Star Magazine Dreams, on the podcast.

Brothers building his life back from something. Get mad about it if you want. Jonathan Majors was on the podcast. We had a lot of people from Oak Cliff. We got to get some Baton Rouge people on the fucking podcast. All right. A boozy out there. Got to Boosie out there.

That's a big, that's a big, no. Would you like to talk to Boosie, Rachel? I got some things to say to Boosie. Yeah, we'll have Boosie on the podcast. The only problem is getting Boosie on the podcast. It's going to cost you like 10 bands. So it's like we.

Yeah, Boozy on the podcast. But the fights are tonight in time square. They're in time square? You're fighting in time square? In time square. Everything is set up is in time square. In time square, yeah. In time square to fight.

Free. It's free for, I think, that for the people, if you come out, you can see the fight. Oh, wow. I'm going to be doing CNN, so I won't get a chance to see the fights. But Ryan Garcia will be out there. Tiffy Mel Lopez with his big mouth d'Ast will be out there. Ruler Romero will be out there. Devin Haney will be out there.

It is a great card at, 154 and no, no, no, no, no, at 140 and 147. 140 and 147, that's light and welterweight. Light, well to wait and welterweight, Junior Welterweight, so you guys watched that and then. Whole week in a box and Canella Iverance on Saturday. That's Derek James, Rachel Lindsay, Van Lakey, take the thing caps off, but do not stop learning.

I'm Van Lakey Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.