Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Platonic Relationships, Celebrity News, and Political Bootlicking

Episode Date: April 30, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss an old Steve Harvey interview that resurfaced and answer the antiquated question: can men and women be platonic friends? (7:17). Then Van and Rachel welcome Media Take Out founder, Fred Mwangaguhunga to breakdown the world of celebrity news (20:36). Finally, the new charges filed in the Ahmaud Arbery case get discussed (1:01:11) before opening the mailbag to answer queries from a few Thought Warriors (1:11:43). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? How to Learning is on. It is I, Van Lathan. It's me, Rachel, Lindsay. Rachel, how's your week going? You, you... You end up how my week is going.

You show weakness earlier today. Like, you were, you show, oh, wow, you got the wine. Pour it up, pour it up. A little blah, blah, wow. You, you, uh... You show weakness. You said that you're going through something right now. What are you going through?

I can't. I can't talk about it. It's personal business? Yeah, I just have an opportunity and it's being blocked. That's what happens. That's what happens. Your shit gets blocked like Matumbo. That's exactly how it was too.

Got the finger waving in my face and everything. Sometimes you have an opportunity and then that shit gets blocked. You know what you got to do, Rach? What? You got to fucking move on. I ain't nobody came to this podcast today, Ray. Rach. But can I have a moment?

You ask me, can I have a moment? Because I just found out today. Can I have a moment? I just like need, I need a moment. We support you. It's a thing. And I need a moment. We support you.

We support the hell out of you, Rachel. And just let us know, just let us know who we have to get at, you know. I'll let you know. I'll keep that in mind. Our producers, Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham, Don the Dragon, Beach him. They are, they are ready. We ready to be out in these streets, man. We ready to be out of these streets.

I'm just looking for some good news later. You know, we got the draft on tonight. I got good news for you. Give me some good news. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every form. four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver

problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfair radio.com. Rory and Maul have returned to the Joe Button podcast. Okay.

You're going to do my neighbors like that. You said you had good news for me. That is good news. I don't listen to the podcast. I barely know who Rory and Mal are. Now, I know who they are, but I'm just saying. So what I'm saying is, it in no way benefits me.

It in no way changes my day, my mood, my opinion. Well, when I said good news for you, I didn't mean it was good news for Rachel Lindsay. I just meant it was good news for you. But everybody's talking about it. They came back to the Joe Button podcast. Good for them. It is good.

It was a good reunion. They came back in a good way. I'm not going to say it was a good reunion. Oh, wow. Okay. I'm going to say that they back. Tell me about it. I'm going to say that they back.

First of all, I want to say one thing that's really important. Shout out to Rory and Ma. In a major way. Shout out to them. Okay. For six weeks going on, they were away from a podcast that they built. That long? Yeah, that they built.

And things, were up in the air and the entire Joe Button fan base, Joe Button podcast fan base didn't know what was going on and there was, what I would imagine

would be intense and immense pressure on both of those guys to say something or to act out or whatever and they kept it pushing. Loyal. They kept it pushing. They kept their emotions

in check as men. Not that men have to keep their emotions to check. Men, if you want to cry. I cry. But the reality is that they didn't talk a lot of shit. They just worked behind the scenes and now they are back on their podcast.

Now, anybody that listened to the reunion of everybody on the podcast yesterday, I came away from it not knowing anything more than what I knew from the beginning. Will they be back next week? I assume that they will. I think they're back. They're back. They're back.

So I still don't really know. why things went left in the first place and they just say business and respect which is fine good enough for the audience and things were tense when they came back together I'm not going to lie man things were tense and things were said that you wouldn't think would be said

when things have been smoothed over but look maybe they're not smooth well they might not be they admit it that much on the podcast they're not smooth right now but in the future they'll be smooth Why? Why? Why were they gone for six weeks? Did they at least explain that? What happened? Just so our viewers know. Not really. They didn't. See, still, if you were to ask, if you were to ask like a listener of the Joe Button podcast, well, what happened? And there's still, no one's ever really talked about that. And look, they're friends. So there might be some things that are going on that are interpersonal that they don't really owe people an explanation for. And I respect that. Like, if that was us, you better not be telling our person. personal business.

The only difference about that is that we also don't get on the podcast and then talk about other people's business either. I'll be honest with you. Is that what they do? Well, not all the time, obviously. I mean, their podcast is a great podcast about a bunch of different things. But I, like, my name has been brought up on the Joe Button podcast about private phone calls that I've made to Joe without him even telling me.

Why don't we talk about Joe then? it's fine it's fine it's fine it's fine it's fine it's fine but what I'm saying is it seemed to be a place to go to where you know there was this violent transparency and this like crazy keeping it real and I'm not saying they're not doing that I'm just saying there's probably some people in the audience that are taken aback by the fact that they feel like they're part of the crew and they still don't really know what all of this was over but even with Rory and Ma what I told them each individually when I was talking about to them is that, man, you don't want to throw away 10-15-year friendships.

Absolutely not. You don't want to throw away 10-15-year friendships, especially over a podcast that's like one of the most popular podcast in their space in the culture. So you don't want But Rory and Mal, if you ever want to talk, you got to you have an open mic here. Shut up, man. It's a big deal. It was a big deal. I think a lot of people were happy to see them back. That's not to say that

you know, there wasn't wasn't some entertaining stuff happening. I didn't listen to the podcast in between, and that's no shot to ice and is. I'm sure a lot of people, I'm not sure. I know a lot of people love them. But yeah, man, things are back the way they're supposed to be on the JCP. We'll see how things will go from here.

It was just a big story, so I just wanted to shout out to those guys because I... Yeah, those are your friends. Yeah. When I'd say between Rory and Ma, Maul and Rory, two absolute stand-up guys. Two stand-up guys. That's great. Two good dudes.

Two good dudes. So happy for them. You're not until this was going on with you. That's okay. It's okay. Keep it in. Hold it in. I honestly can't.

You can't. Just to be honest, I can't. I'll tell you off there. Maybe work. That's fine. All right. Let's take a break. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech.

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This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen. favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Okay. Steve Harvey. Steve Harvey has opinions. And, you know, I love Steve Harvey. I love Steve Harvey. Oh, by the way,

we should say that we have a guest on the podcast today. Yes. Fred from Media Takeout, the owner and CEO, the founder of Media Takeout is going to be on the podcast today. It's going to be the Spider-Man meme, like me from TMZ, pointing at Media Takeout,

asking all the tough questions, some questions that only I could really ask because I have the knowledge. I wasn't a part of an interview, y'all. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. But we're going to have that interview in a second.

But first we've got to talk about Steve Harvey. A 2010 interview, Steve Harvey resurfaced, which he expressed that men and women. 2010. 2010 interview. Men and women can't be platonic friends. He doesn't think that that's possible. He said, we remain your friends in hope that one day there'll be a crack in the door. A chink in the armor and trust, Steve says.

and believe that guy that you think is just your buddy will slide in that crack the moment he gets the opportunity because we've got to think this way. 99.9% of us think this way. So with everything that's going on in the world, we are going to have this analog basic 1998 conversation again. Can men and women be friends is what we're going to talk about again because Steve Harvey's talking about it. So I'll ask you this. We'll run back on it. Rachel, is Steve Harvey right? Well, it's not even going back to it.

Obviously, if it's coming back up again, it's a question that people are still at odds about. It's a question people don't really know the answer to. And I think it depends on who are the people that are involved. I think it depends on your age. Age is very important. It's totally different. I will preface this by saying,

I like Steve Harvey. Steve Harvey's my guy. I used to do a bit on his show. I used to, I do Steve Harvey show, shout out to it. You like him? I guess I didn't. I used to do these, he used to do these round tables where it was like a women's, women's talk.

That's not what it's called. That's not what it was called. I can't remember the exact name of it. Let the women talk. Let the women have they say. I can't remember what it was called. It was not called that, but he would sit there. We talk about a question like this, can men and women be platonic friends and,

or have a platonic relationship? And so like three, women would be on a panel and we'd sit and we talk about it. I used to come on to this show and do this all the time. So all that to say, I think it depends. I have guy friends. And this is where you come in. He's saying men are the problem.

Men are the reason that there can't be a platonic relationship, not the women. So really, I need to hear from you because I would say I absolutely have had platonic relationships my entire life. I grew up having more guy friends than I had female friends. One of those girls, huh? Yeah, I was one of those girls, whatever that means. I was one of those girls. And I'm sure there were some of my guy friends that if I had said,

you want to take it to another place, they would have absolutely said yes. Okay. So that's why this question doesn't make any sense. Okay? So I'll tell you what the question doesn't make any sense. Number one, I'm 41 years old. happily in a relationship. Of course, of course, I can have female friends.

I have amazing, strong, talented female friends. Of course I can have female friends. Number one. Now, at 25, could I have been friends? It depends on what we mean. If you're saying friends and you're defining it as in people that you would not sleep with. I think that's what he means.

Then the percentage of women that I was friends with, when I was 25, that I would not sleep with if given the opportunity is 0%. When I say zero... That's why I say you have to answer. Like 0%. But see, I don't think that that means that we can't be friends. I'm not talking about the sex. I'm talking about... The question is, would I pay?

pursue this with them. I get, I 100% get you. Right. So the question is like, absolutely, we could always, always, it's like, what Steve said is not true. It's like, I'm just waiting for a crack in the door. Right. I'm just waiting for a crack in the door. I'm waiting for a crack in the door.

No, there's plenty of female friends that I had that I wasn't waiting for anything. We all just chilling, cool, kicking it. But now, if she crowsy, she cried. cracked the door. Totally different. I'll drive a fucking bus through that bitch. If she cracked the door. But yeah, so I think, of course, you could be female friends.

And I think the answer is too easy to just say, would you not sleep with this person? Well, then. Well, it's like, if I offer you a piece of candy, world's finest chocolate. If I offer you world's finest chocolate, are you going to say yes or no? It's like, I'm offering you something.

So that's why, yes. It's a flawed question. If you offer it, who's going to be like, no, you know what? I respect our friendship too much to do.

No. There's some of those guys. They're going to do it. They're some of those guys. They're lying. They're lying. There's a couple of those guys. I'm going to say I wasn't one of them.

But this whole thing that we're all just lurking, waiting for the right moment is not true. At least for me, that we're all just worked like, like lurking, waiting for the right moment. for somebody to slip up and crack that door. That sounds a little weird.

But look, I understand. So Steve is, first of all, I wonder what this makes, how this makes you feel if you're like a female friend of Steve Harvey's. Well, he doesn't have any. Oh, that's what he said? Well, there's the problem. There are women who probably think there is friends.

And he's flat out like, I don't have any. Back then, he said, and maybe he's changed, he doesn't have female friends, because he can't. That's literally what he was saying. Well, I guess I can understand that because if you're talking about female friends, like what's a friend?

Like a female friend that you just go and you hang out with? Right, like not a co-worker. Yeah. But like, do you have a female friend you confide in? No. See?

Well, then maybe you don't have a friend like that. Well, but I don't confide. I'm not much for confiding. You know? Okay. I pay a lot of people. Who? Interesting. No, I have a male friend who I grew up with. I've known since 9. I stood in their wedding.

Wow. I'm close with the wife too. I stood on her side, not his side. It's a whole love of basketball situation. And we are very, we are very close friends. And I mean, like, I don't, I don't tell him. I've never told him something that I haven't told Brian. It's not like that.

That's a question. But I'm just saying, like, that's important for me to establish. Have you ever cuddled with him? No. You've never. Cuddle with him. Never cuddle. Never cuddled.

Not one cuddle. Not one cuddle. Not a congratulatory spoon in any way. Maybe a congratulatory hug. Yeah. And that's kind of where the thing gets weird because also their distinctions and friendship between men and women, right? Like women are much more affectionate with one another.

You know, I hug my boys and, you know, we hug a lot, you know. But like, girls cuddle each other. So then the question becomes, I don't cuddle my girlfriends. You've never cuddled one of your girlfriends. I cannot recall. So you've never... Maybe she was crying and I hugged her and I gave her a hug.

Sure, maybe. So you've never had a sleepover with one of your girlfriends. You guys stay up late to watch waiting to exhale. And you guys are cuddled up. No. Does that not happen? Did I make that up? I mean, I'm sure it happens.

Trudy. But don't stereotype that we all do that. Trudy. Trudy. Hold on for a second. We get Trudy on here. Trudy, do you ever, do you ever cuddle with your girlfriends? You guys ever cuddle?

With my friends? I mean, yeah. Being my friends, definitely in college. I have a friend, my best friend, Diamonte, always wanted to cuddle with me, and she hated it because I would never did. See, I'm Trudy. I wouldn't be cuddled. But you, now, Trudy, you broke down and you cuddled with her, though, right?

Yeah, because she wouldn't leave me alone. I've really never, I'm trying to think. I might have held a friend, like, who might have been crying or something. But, like. I'm talking about. I just, I don't think I've ever done that. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a legit cuddle when you're watching Clueless.

Oh, no. Like, see, just like a random, like a goofy cuddle. Yeah, but like a random over just watching movie. I haven't ever. What's a goofy cuddle? Like, explain to me the different, explain to me the different cuddles, Trudy Joseph. I think it's my friend. They knew that I wasn't the most affectionate person in the world.

And they always would just try to bother me by hugging me or wanting me. They want to cuddle with me. So who will be cuddle. Okay. Well, what I'm saying is that if you have that situation and then you have the female friend and is cuddling then, what if the female friend wants to cuddle? Can you have a platonic cuddle with a female friend? Sure.

I don't think so, Rachel. I don't know. I've never done it. I've never done it either. Can you have a platonic cuddle with a female friend? I, I, you set it up like you can. I don't know. I've never done it before.

Trudy says yes. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm saying male to female friend. Oh, male to female friend. Clear question. Can a man and a woman have a platonic cuddle? I've totally slept in the bed with guy friends before. Oh, okay.

All right. This is pre-Bryan. Is this? And it's not the friend, and it's not the friend that I was talking about before. So, so. This is like college. So are you talking about like you sleep like head to feet? Like no.

All right, Rachel. Okay. In college. All right. Okay, Rachel. Yeah. You talk about whatever. So I'm not talking about.

So you didn't sleep like head to feet. You slept both of you guys's head are up there and you guys went to sleep. Yeah. All right. Just I'm telling you that's, you know, I'm telling you that's. that's that's that's that's a tough one I get it and I was single I wouldn't do that if I was with somebody together of course obviously like that that's that's not a good look and nobody will believe me right you would believe me well yeah yeah well I'm saying it's it's not that the guy's

gonna do something it's just I'm just saying there are body functions bodily functions that are involuntary only that things that'll happen you need to you need to explain that I'm saying And if you're, if you're... That sounds really bad. Well, I'm saying if you're in college, right? And you're in... You're touching with like... Why I got to be touching in the bed?

We ain't sleeping in a twin day bed. What kind of bed was... You had like a king bed in college? People have apartments, Van. People have apartments. I went in the dorms. Oh, I didn't know. Okay, in a king bed.

By the way, I still wouldn't do that. That's still playing with fire. But you know, do you know that it doesn't have to be any touching that just the proximity, the energy of the situation can make biology take its course. This is sounding really bad. How? How?

You're making it seem like a man can't control himself. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, a man can control his actions, what he does and should control. I'm just saying fix it. But since the seventh or eighth grade, we had to come to the hard determination that there were certain things that we cannot control. You just have to be like, hey, down boy, this isn't the situation. I get that.

All right. Moving on to Steve Harvey. Moving on from it because we love you, Steve Harvey. Still don't know where you stand on President Trump because you just kind of look at. Really? Oh, that's a, I don't know about all that. You didn't know that Steve Harvey was. Oh, he did go to, he did go.

He did go see him. He went to a house. He did. He did. Shout to Steve Harvey though. We like you. Whatever. All right.

Now, guys, we're going to take a break. And when we come back, we're going to have our interview with Fred for Media Takeout, one of the most popular urban gossip slash tabloid sites on the entire internet. And me and him are going to, me and Rachel, we're going to bro down and talk about all the different things because all three of us have been involved in celebrity news.

Sure. So we're going to talk about it with Fred, after this break. Every outfit starts with a choice. What am I wearing underneath? Something comfortable? and let's be honest, something that keeps everything looking smooth. That's where Vanity Fair lingerie comes in.

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and the founder of that site is named, Fred Manga, Hungagagah, Fred, my brother, how are you doing today? Thank you for joining us on higher learning. It's great to be here and I'm doing great. Thanks a lot, guys. Okay, so I described media takeout, which is a tabloid site on the internet as notorious. Okay, first of all, how do you,

do you agree with the fact that media takeout is notorious? And do you agree with the category, characterization of media takeout as a tablet. I think, I mean, we call it entertainment news. And, you know, I think that when people hear entertainment news, depending on who you are, you know, if you don't like celebrity news and celebrity gossip, then maybe you think of it is notorious. I mean, that's more so from the outsider's perspective.

If that's the way that they want to see us as, you know, it's what it is and we don't run away from it. So I want to take it back, because I'm going to take it back, because, I found this interesting. I always find it interesting when I meet a recovering attorney. That's what I like to call you. You practice law and then you made this transition to create this media takeout and everything that it is starting back in 2006, right? Around 2006. Yeah, that's right. How did you make the decision to make that transition? I know you probably get this all the time. People like, how do you go from law to doing that? But I mean, what you started is, you know, it changed

a game. Yeah. I mean, when I was a lawyer, I loved it. I loved the practice. I loved the people. I loved going to law school. I loved everything about it. But it wasn't really me, right? Like I, you know, most of my friends that have, well, my friends that were successful lawyers, they wanted to be lawyers when they were six and, you know, they studied. They were reading law books in high school. I just was one of those guys that did really well in college, but wasn't smart enough to go to medical school. So I just said, okay, I'm just going to go to law school. And so, You bunch of dumb-ass lawyers. It's the truth, Rachel. You know it.

And so, you know, so I knew that this was, you know, that if I was going to be kind of as successful as I possibly could, I had to be true to myself. And so it wasn't so much about whether or not I enjoyed the practice of law or the like. It was whether or not this was where my skills were going to be taken full advantage of. And I knew that wasn't the case. So I knew that wasn't the case from the day one practice. So from day one, practicing law, even though I had a great time and met a lot of great people, I was always in the back of my mind thinking about what it was that I was going to do that was going to kind of be my career. And it wasn't going to be law. I knew that. So you guys claim at Media Takeout to be the most visited urban website in the world.

I'm looking at the numbers here. It says media takeout reaches 92% of the overall African American population with access to the Internet daily. Wow. big numbers. Because of that claim, what sort of responsibility being a black run organization do you feel like media takeout has in its reporting? Do you feel a responsibility to portray black celebrities or black culture in a certain light? Or is it people do what they do and you guys just cover it? I think what, from our standpoint, and we get our cues always from the public. I think there's this misconception out there that the public wants to see

black people acting crazy and black people acting foolish and stuff like that. That's what people, the kind of misconceived perception of the public is. But in fact, the public doesn't like to see that. And so when you think about it, think about how many times people do get out of hand and then they go viral on social media and then they face a big backlash, particularly from the African-American community. And not the African-American, not like a couple of activists in the African-American community, the African-American community at large, right?

So, you know, it's starting from the perception that black people, African Americans, we actually don't like to see craziness. I mean, everybody likes to see craziness, but there is a level past which we're not comfortable seeing. And so, you know, that level that black people are uncomfortable seeing ourselves as is the level that we try and hold to media takeout. Now, if we're talking to an activist or someone that's out there, you know, that's doing something different. Their line is a little bit further, you know, closer or or or to the left, but maybe where we and the general public is. And so that's, those are the people I think that you hear

a lot of the criticism from the activist type people. So let me ask you this question then. I'd say you also probably get some criticism, some fair criticism from the celebrities themselves. But is it fair to say if I was going to sum that up that you feel like media takeout holds itself to the standard that black society holds itself to? Yeah, that, that's, that, right. I think that's, that's, that's, that's right, right, but with the understanding that black society is not this place where we just want to see the craziest stuff out there, which is, like I said, that's the perception.

So when you say that, it's kind of like people are like, oh, well, we have to change the way black society looks at itself or what we're willing to accept for, about ourselves. But I think we have a very strong foundation. And we're not the kind of people that is okay with seeing craziness. Now, if this was, if we were a site that was marketed and the majority of people that were reading it were not black, then I think, I think that the conversation would be a little bit different. But since we're actually, we've actually have been accepted over the last 16 years by black people, I think that tells you a lot about the boundaries that we've held. we hold. Let me ask you this. When you're talking about boundaries, because I'm always curious about this when it comes to entertainment sites. Where do you draw the line when it comes to the information

that you're putting out there? When it comes to breaking news, for example, when Kobe Bryant passed away, you had that information out before the family had that information. Or even going into Bachelor World, you've got the reality Steve's who put out this information. and he's outed people in their sexuality before they've even had a chance to tell family and friends. When it comes to breaking news like that, do you have a line that you draw? Is there something that goes too far or that's too much for you? Yeah. I mean, there always are things that go too far.

And I think it falls within the realm of common decency, right? Like the stuff, the public will, I mean, whenever you're running any kind of business, your customers will tell you when you're doing something that they don't like. Right. So we're constantly, it's a two-way community. We're putting things out there, we're listening to the response that we're getting back from the people, and we're trusting that the response that we're getting back from the people is that check on us. And so, you know, I think a lot of times when you look at a particular story, it's easy to kind of get it mixed up. And let me give you a perfect example of that, right? Like you have a story about one story that just off the top of my mind, there was a young man, I think he was in South Carolina.

he was found dead in a field in South Carolina. Right? So we talked about this story and someone happened to kind of come across the body in the field on social media and kind of take a video of the body in the field. It wasn't anything gruesome, but it just was clear that there was a body in the field, right? And so that video ended up going viral

and we wrote a story about that viral video that went on where here you had this young man, that was, that the body was there. And the person who videotaped the body said that the young man appeared to be murdered in South Carolina. When we put the video out, within kind of minutes, everyone was like, oh my God, media take out what you're doing. You're being extremely salacious.

You're gratuitously posting videos of dead bodies on the video. You're doing crazy stuff out. You know, you're just doing this for clear. and for nothing else, right? That was the initial response from a lot of people that saw it. Now, eventually, what ended up happening is very quickly after that young man passed, the police in South Carolina came together and they grueled his death at suicide. Even though there was clear stuff in that video that made you question whether or not

that young man, in fact, committed suicide. He was an African-American young man who was sent to commit suicide. Long story short, I mean, the family right now is in fact fighting to get that, that suicide removed and have his death investigated as a homicide. And large part, the reason why they were able to do it is because of the backing that they got from social media and other places from the media takeout story. So like I said, when you look at the story and everything from day one, you can get a certain

perspective of it and you might just jump to conclusions, oh, they're doing this or they're doing that or, you know, they're doing it for all the wrong reasons. but after you get a little bit of time, you get some perspective, you can step back after maybe a month or two months or three months. A lot of times you really begin to change your opinion on what the story is. From our perspective, it's a little bit, it's difficult, right, because you're trying to decide what to do in the moment, but you can't necessarily let that let kind of the immediate reaction of the public determine how, what kind of stories you put out there. Interesting thing about that is To follow up on that is see I've been in these rooms before and I know sort of a distinction that gets made there

Now let's take the entire example of the story that you just used right So it turned out that because of The exposure to the video that people had That the family is able to fight back against the suicide ruling and getting investigated as a homicide, right? That, in that case, could be totally happenstance. See, the reason why you put the video on the site matters. If the reason why you guys put the video on Media Takeout

was because you believed that there was foul play there and you wanted to raise awareness about the fact that this kid was murdered, then most of the times that Media Takeout does what it does, they'll be on the right side of it. But if the reason why the video goes up on the site, is because it is a video that is going to drive people to media takeout for a traffic perspective. And it just happened that in this case,

it worked out that it helped the family, then that means that most of the time media takeout is going to be wrong. And I know this for certain because I've been in spots to where the question is being asked, why are we getting ready to post this? And that's kind of the question that I would say. So the question I'm asking is, forget about what happened at the end of it.

Why was the video posted in the first place? Was it posted because people at Media Takeout believed that this kid was murdered and they were trying to help his family? Or was it posted because it was a viral? I mean, remember, media takeout doesn't, you know, we're not just posting, you know, videos of people getting killed. Right. Like if we're going to post a video on the site, it's going to be about celebrities, doing celebrity stuff. or it's going to be in kind of a social justicey kind of thing. Maybe it's a police video, a police misconduct or something like that.

Or maybe it's just, it's a trend video, right? Like there was a, you know, 12 people, you know, got into a fight or at, at IHop in Jacksonville. And this is just on everyone's, you know, it's everywhere. It's in the Jacksonville News or whatever else like that. But this happened to be one of the areas where we were looking at, looking at it is truly like a social justice story, right? Like the backlash, it's hard, you know, for a lot of people, they look at it and they're like,

oh my God, really media takeout, really you were just, you were looking at it as social media thing. You just were just kind of doing it and putting out these videos. But we're not World Star, right? Like, WorldStar is a place for that to just put up whatever kind of crazy videos that are out there and doing it. So you make a distinction between Media Takeout and World Star because you just kind of threw World Star down. Yeah. He definitely. I'm asking.

So what are you? Fred, you're right. There's a different. Speak on it. Remember, we're a news site, right? So we're reporting on a news story. They're just putting up a video, right? So you could put up any video.

They're about viral videos. User-generated viral videos. They'll tell you that they're open about it. And that's what they do, right? We're reporting on news stories. So a viral video isn't a news story, right? Like a boy in South Carolina that could potentially have been murdered that everybody is kind of presuming it's a suicide,

that's a new story to us and the video is a part of the story right? Gotcha. So media takeout launched in 2006. At the time 2006, what was around? Just Facebook, right? I don't even, I'm late to the Twitter sphere, so I don't even know when Twitter started.

I think that was YouTube and it was MySpace. MySpace was big. Facebook had, but like social media was just Facebook because that was like 2004. Yeah, it was like, correct. So since then. You don't consider MySpace to be social media? Facebook.

change the gang. Right? Like I, yes, but it... Tom from my space right now. Excuse me for a second, Fred. No, no, no, no, no, no. Tom, I don't, I don't care about offending Tom right now. Where's Tom?

Where's Tom? Tom is somewhere having... With the Facebook page? Somewhere with the Facebook page. That's where Tom is. Okay, Fred. So at the time you started media takeout there, we're like social media hasn't become what had not become what it is right now.

I'm very curious. Does a social media or social media, becoming what it has become in 2021, does that help or hurt sites like media take out? I think it changes the business significantly, right? So before social media, people would just say, oh, where are we going to get the news? We're going to get the news from, you know, six or seven different blogs that we'll go to, and that's kind of where it is, right? And then social media came, and then you didn't have to go anywhere.

All you have to do is basically pick up your phone, and the news is basically delivered to you. And you don't even necessarily know where or care where it's coming. from it's just kind of on your phone and you're just swiping and swiping and getting all the news that it is. So you had to adjust your model. You had to recognize that news is kind of a commodity business. And that's largely the way that Blogsphere worked before, where there was 15 different news stories that were out there in the world. And you kind of put your snarky commentary on it. And that was the reason why people kind of came back to you. But the news, the subject matter, was basically a commodity. It wasn't anything that you

created. It wasn't anything that you did. It wasn't anything. It was something that was out there in the ether that they could have gotten to any place, but they happen to choose you because they liked the language in your blog title or something. So that's the way it was before. Now with social media, the commoditization of news has kind of come full steam. So the 10 or 15 news stories that are out there over the course of the day are almost valueless. Right. So the news stories that, you know, whatever the news story of today is, I don't even know necessarily, but whatever the 10 top news stories of today are, you cannot make any money off of it,

you know, outside of social media or whatever, right? Like, you can't just put them on you. You can't just put the 10 news stories of the site, of the day on your site, write a couple of, you know, interesting headlines and whatever, and expect to have a business out of it. Those days are over. So what do you have to do outside of it, right?

Like, so social media, now everyone can have all the news stories that they want. They can have all the images that they want, right? Because the images are all on social media. but the question is what do they what can't they get from social media and what they can't get is what you have to focus on in your business if you're going to continue to survive and thrive in this industry and i would argue that that is that that that is shrinking because i can tell you straight up there was a time when you know if a celebrity had a baby the way for them to get the baby name out or the pictures was to was to do an exclusive spread with people leak it to a site give you the name or whatever now they go straight to their Instagram with that. And so it is really the black play. You're talking about things really from a journalistic standpoint that involve the police,

if you have people inside police departments and videos and things like that that are exclusive that you really cannot get. Which leads me to my next question. In terms of an accuracy standard, what is the standard that media takeout is held to? I think with any site that's categorized as a tabloid, the first thing that people were going to say is that they're putting up stuff that isn't true. How much do you guys care about the accuracy

of the stories that go up on media takeout? 100%. I mean, we want nothing but the truth out there, right? And I think you'll be able to appreciate this. I think that there is what the public thinks the truth is, right? And then there is the real truth, which oftentimes doesn't mirror it in any, in any resembling way, right?

And I think people, and I get a perfect example of this is, so over the course of the summer, we started doing a bunch of stories about kind of the fractures in Kim Kardashian and the West Parish, right? It was obvious to us, we'd be talking to people around them, and it was clear that there was issues there. We wrote a series of stories, particularly about that at the time. Obviously, while that was going on,

their camp denied everything, and people fact-checked our story and was like, oh, media takeout is just making this up. This never happened. They're obviously trying to force this kind of divorce on this couple or this kind of fracture in the relationship on this couple. And that was kind of the, so if you asked, if we were having this discussion maybe in November,

it would be, oh, you know, media take a made up this story about, you know, Kim and Kanye having a fracture in their relationship. Now, fast forward to, you know, post-divorce filing, it's clear that the story was, in fact, accurate, right? So at the time, you know, even for a week or a month after that story, if you asked people about whether or not that story was accurate, they may have told you it wasn't, but now here we are six months later along the line, and you could look at it and say, oh, okay, it was. And I think that's a lot of time when people will say, oh, you said this, but it didn't happen or whatever else, you know, sometimes we get it wrong. And, you know, listen, we've never

want to get anything wrong. It's bad for our reputation. It's bad for people, you know, if you're just consistently getting things wrong, people don't want to continue to come back to your site. So we never want to do that. But at the same time, just because you don't believe that it's true, doesn't mean that it isn't in fact true. And from our standpoint, now we're kind of in a dilemma, right? like if we know something is true, but we know that the public won't believe it is true. You're kind of at this point, do you report on it? Because if you report on it, they'll just deny it, and the public will say that you guys are making this thing up. So do you want to kind of hold onto your reputation and put out, actively put out misinformation? And I have to tell you,

you know, that is a gigantic problem in the industry right now. And I'm not just talking about media takeout. I talk to people, obviously, I've been in the industry for a while. people, all different newspapers and on TV news about people like feeling like you have to put out misinformation because the public will literally not believe the truth of the matter. What do you mean? What do you mean? What does that mean? And who does it?

Call them out. Yeah, I can't. I'm not, listen, I'm not going to not going to say anything like that. But let's say it was in the case. But what do I don't even understand what that means. What does it mean by misinformation? Let's say in the case of the Conway West, Kim Kardashian. Let's say that we wrote our story out there and we said that their relationship was fractured.

There were plenty of other news places out there that I'm confident were speaking to the same people with us and knew exactly that our story was accurate, that in fact wrote an exact opposite and it was like, no, everything is fine in their relationship, nothing is going on in their relationship, nothing is happening, even though they knew that wasn't true, right? if they knew that what we were writing was true. And but they knew that for a number of reasons, they couldn't do it or they wouldn't do it or the public wouldn't believe it or whatever, and they just put out what they did. Now, obviously, in the cases we're talking about, right, like the marriage of two extraordinarily talented, rich, wealthy people, there's no, you know, okay, whether you say that they're together or not,

there's no real implications to it. But like I said, these same implications, they happen in politic and political news. and in other places. So like I said, I think we're in an area where, you know, where we're in this kind of fact-checking world where I think a lot of people in journalism understand what kind of stories the quote-unquote fact-checkers will like and what story, what kind of stories the fact-checkers won't like and the stories that the fact-checkers won't like are just not being published. And I think that's a dangerous thing for media and journalism.

Let me ask you something real quick. Rachel's like this festival. Let me ask you something real quick. So I think a lot of times sometimes people don't understand how this really works. Like for example, a lot of these things have to do with the source war, right? A source war. If I have a source that is the official spokesperson of Kim Kardashian and Kanye West, and I call that person, they say, hey, they're.

relationship, source, their relationship is fine, whatever's not happening. Well, then that, the story that I write is then true. A source close says Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are just fine. If you have a source that's close to Kim Kardashian and, Kim Kardashian and Kanye West, and they tell you that the relationship is fractured and you write that story, your story is also true because a source close to Kim Kardashian and Kanye West told you that they're not doing well. The question then becomes who actually has the better source

and what does it take for an entity to deem a source a credible and valuable one? I'll give you a real world example. There was a football player in Miami named Jason Pierre Paul, right? He blew his hand up playing with firecrackers. Someone called me that I know knows him and is with him all the time and said, hey man, Jason Pierre-Paul blew his hand up playing with firecrackers. This was hours before, hours before it would actually get confirmed, right?

We tried to confirm it with everybody, couldn't confirm it with anyone. My source was ironclad that it was true. We could not confirm it with anyone. Couldn't get with his agent, couldn't get with his lawyer, couldn't get it. with anyone. We couldn't confirm it. And we weren't going to call the hospital and try to get all crazy with HIPAA violations, which is exactly what ended up happening to the guy who actually did that. We didn't do it.

So guess what? We ate it on that story. We did not report. We had it first that that happened to him. But to their credit, they did not put that on the site that he had blown his hand up, even though we knew 100%. My question is, would you have put that on your site? Knowing that I had a good source,

but we couldn't confirm it with his lawyer, his agent, his manager, or anybody official, we knew if Jason Pierre-Paul ends up not blowing up his hand, it's all in our face, would you have run that? Short answer is no, and I'll tell you that we have a similar story like that. I mean, we have tons of similar stories like that, One I think is really similar to it, Gilbert Arenas and the shooting incident in the locker room. Oh, a classic.

Okay. So here's our story of kind of what happened then. So after it happened, we got a rock solid source. How solid? A person that was actually in the locker room when this happened. So they saw it all. And there they swore up and down. They knew it.

We had good reason to believe that they were telling the truth. So a person, this Gilbert Arena story came to us and we were like, we had it. We had it. It was gift wrapped. It was kind of, you know, we were together 100% reliable source. But we, and we never published it. And I'll tell you why. Because that is, you know, it's one thing to talk about, you know, is so and so dating so and so and so and so breaking up with someone else.

It's something else to talk about a member of the National Basketball Association, one of their star play. You were accusing them now of a crime. And in addition to doing that, you're accusing the NBA who largely had let it go of covering up that crime and kind of putting it under. So that was one of those stories that even though I knew it was 100% true, there was so much smoke that was going to come with writing that story. And the NBA had already denied it that we didn't do it. So I'll tell you what we did do. We wrote a story because we didn't want the total smoke of that article. story going out there. We kind of watered it down. And so the story, our initial story,

which was kind of the day after the incident happened, was that there was an incident in the locker room in a gambling situation between Gilbert Arenas and one of his players. The two of them caught. Right. And the two of them got into it and allegedly later on, the NBA found a gun in one of the locker. So that was the kind of not saying that Gilbert Arenas had it and Gilbert Arenas pulled it out or anything like that. We kind of toned down the story. And you know what happened? The very next day, the NBA put out a press release basically saying that our story was a complete lie, that there was no gun found there, there was no security incident in the Washington Wizards room, and that basically everything

that media take out this little site is saying was a lie. And obviously, we caught hell for that, right? Like we had people saying, oh, there was media takeout again, making up stories and blah, blah, blah, and doing whatever it is. And at that point, with now the entire kind of press, the sports press, kind of putting pressure on us, basically saying that this is just a site with a whole bunch of lies, we couldn't even come up with a follow-up story

to kind of write the wrong on that. It was just we didn't have to eat it. Then two weeks later, the New York Post ran the full story, basically saying everything that happened in the, you know, between the two, and basically the story that we all know now essentially came from New York Post reporting, which like I said, not only did we have the story first, but we broke the story first.

The NBA actively covered up the story after we broke it, and then the New York Post ended up holding on to it and taking that story. Can I ask y'all a question for someone who does not come from this world? I mean, like, I'm in it, but not like that. Who are these sources? Who are these sources? And why do people... Like, I'm listening to Van Tell his story. Why would this man want to call you up and tell you about what happened to Jason Pierre

Paul? Why would somebody want to call you and out what happened in the locker room with the Washington Wizards? Why do people want to do this? Is there a thrill behind this? What do they get from this? I mean, Fred, I read somewhere with you... I don't know if you still...

If this is still the case, but a lot of your information comes from, like, a bitter ex-girlfriend or a bodyguard or a makeup artist. or hairstylists, are these the sources? What, like, why? Why and who? Who, what, when, wear, why? How? So for us, I mean, we have all of those, right? When you're in the industry for a long time, what you find is that the celebrities and the faces change,

but a lot of the people from behind the scenes really have been around for a while and they stay the same. And so you've worked with them. You've had good relationships. Maybe this is the same PR person that she, today, she represents Rihanna, you know, and, but before she may have represented, you know, someone that you had a better relationship with and she was feeding you stuff all along, right? And in two years from now, she may be representing someone else. So, you know, a lot of the sources

that you have, because they're people in the industry, they really stay around. But to your direct question, why would someone ever do this, right? And, you know, it's really, it's something about human nature, right? Like most people rarely come across really, really juicy and important information. And then when you do, you think like, what can I do about it? Now, if it's a person on the street, the person on the street will just put it up on Instagram, right? They'll say, hey, look, I just saw, you know, Beyonce Tripp and Fall, and I got the video. Here it goes with Beyonce Tripping and Fall, right? But that person and that compulsion that made that person put it up on Instagram is the same compulsion that we all have, right? Like, you too, right? Like, so we, I can, we can leave this interview

and something fantastically amazing you can see and be like, oh my God, I just, I have this information. I just saw this thing, but I'm Rachel Lindsay. I can't be putting out any old stuff because people are going to come back to me and they're going to be like, what's going on and maybe this isn't good for my image or whatever else. So what I'm going to do, I can't hold this in. It's too good. It's got to go out. And then you're going to say, you know what? I had this conversation with that guy, Fred. And he was. so nice and he just really would seem like he would take a good, he would take this story and do a good job with it. And so you would text me and you would say, Fred, do not tell anybody that I just saw

this, but this is what I saw. And it's just, it's something about human nature. I mean, you know, a lot of times people forget that, you know, what brings us together is culture, but a lot of it has to do with communication and kind of an openness to share, to share information. And it's really something that's innate in all of us as humans. And, you know, when you find a person that doesn't have that, it's really odd. But most people, they really have it inside of them. And when they find something, they get information, they really want to share it. And a lot of times if you're, if you are a hairdresser, you can't share it on Facebook,

otherwise you never get another job. Or if you're Rachel Lindsay, you don't want to, you know, put it out there and maybe affect your brand, but you still feel the need to share it. So you'll call me or Van or something else and we'll put it out. You won't call me. So this is what I'll say But to that point though This is why I will never work in celebrity news ever again

So when I went into working at TMZ I thought it was basically like extra is Like they get on there and they talk Whatever whatever whatever The reason why I will never work in celebrity news Ever again is because there's a part of human nature That I don't want to be a part of anymore Couldn't wait to get out of there

There's something There's something so nasty about seeing two guys in a picture and one guy saying, hey, this is my day one. And having that guy call you on the other guy. I'm not talking about any specific situation. I'm just talking about the way it goes. To see people's brothers and cousins,

it got to the point to where, and anybody at TMZ will tell you this. I didn't break stories anymore. I literally became just like a TV guy or only would call. It's like when I did a cool video or something. It's like it really gets nasty. And to Fred's point, sometimes it's not for no money.

It's not for no bag. It's just to do it. It's wild to me. You know what I mean? It's like if somebody got a good piece of video, then that's one thing. But sometimes it's just like you walk into a place and they know you're from there. And they're like, yo, let me tell you who is just in here. Like we'll be on the tour bus

We're driving around Hey, we're on the corner You know what I mean It's not any to dis anyone I'm just saying I don't want to be around that energy no more And I'll never do it again It's just

It really made me look at people differently Being in there for that long And even myself Because I was a fucking part of it So for me Yeah I'm It's different for me

But what he said was right What he said was right Sometimes people just be talking Yeah Fred give me something to break tomorrow on extra. Give me some breaking news. I mean, I'm watching this Chloe Kardashian and Tristan Thompson mess. Oh, I can't. Fred, Fred, I can't. Let me tell you something. Fred, he's going to cheat on her again. I can't do it. She didn't want to talk about it, Fred. Fred, break it down to her. Break it down

to her. Give it all the goods, Fred. Okay. So the thing about the Tristan Thompson, obviously we know he's cheating known it before and then they kind of came back together. But the woman that he's choosing to kind of, that he got caught with, right? Like, these are like the thoughtest of the thoughts. They always are. You know what I mean? No, you guys, stop it.

Stop with this shaming of women. I gotta see what she looks like. Stop with this shaming. It's not the way that she looks. It's just who she is. I don't know anything about her. Yeah. I mean, she's on there.

She's talking openly, publicly, about sex and all the different men that she's with and the like. It's like, why is he doing? Like, it's almost like the guy must have some real compassion. The way that I look at it, if he's messing with a woman like this, there are 50 others that are going to come out of the word. And you know they're coming out, right?

Like, they're slowly, they're talking. You guys, I am genuinely uncomfortable with the quote-unquote woman like this narrative. It got nothing to do with her. He likes ass. He can't stop himself. Nothing to do with the woman. Nothing to do with the woman. I'm not playing her down.

I know what you're saying. You're not talking. He just means a woman who's willing to tell her business like this and put it out there. He just said everybody willing to tell their business. Well, I'm not. A woman. He's with a woman that's out here in these streets going on podcasts and talking to porn stars or whatever. I understand what you mean.

Level, right? Like, he's not, he didn't meet some, you know, some women in the club that, like, has a regular job. And then she'd met him and he started dating or whatever. he's with a woman that's out here, a party girl. And when you're out there, if you, you know, usually men, especially when you're in a relationship, you're a celebrity, you try, tend to have a degree of discretion. So when you're choosing a side piece or whatever,

you're going to try and find like a discreet, you know, non-party girl kind of person who's not going to put your business out there like that. But he didn't. He's just reckless with it. And that makes you wonder, like, if he's gone to someone like her, they're probably, and I would bet, you know, I don't know. I can't say because I don't have, you know, any real evidence on this. But I would bet that there's a lot more women.

And they're all just kind of waiting. They're getting their stories together. Maybe they're talking to places like TMZ. We're not talking to any of them because I wouldn't know. And they're just waiting for this kind of big reveal, right? Because whenever there's one woman, then there's two, then there's 10, then there's 15, and there's 50, right? And I'm just waiting for that other shoe to kind of drop on this one. Fred, all right, my man.

look you guys keep up the bad work over there I love how I say that to him but it's like that Spider-Man meme like you know that Spider-Man meme point of me? No seriously what you've accomplished

has been what you've accomplished has actually been pretty remarkable and to be doing it since 2006 is an accomplishment in it of itself. I know that it's very polarizing, very

notorious infamous like I said but you know building the business as a black man in this country is not easy so you should be committed for that. We appreciate you joining us on higher learning today my brother. Thank you. I had a great time of you guys. I'm not playing with your uncomfortableness. What? I don't know why y'all got a no I knew what why I got a disly. I knew what he was saying. You was saying the type of person who's going to speak on it. I'm doing a podcast with a couple of Quakers.

Listen, y'all, the word thought exists for a reason. So, like, why are we acting like we can't use the word if the word is out there for a reason? There's a whole damn song about it. Do you know what the word is out there for? You know what the reason is? Why? Patriarchy. That's the reason why the world exists. Well, what I'm saying is I knew what he meant. I know he wasn't trying to talk about,

like, her appearance or anything. He meant somebody who puts their business out there like like that. So I'm going to take up for him in that sense. I don't think he meant, I don't think he meant to be degrading. I think he meant to just say, she's out here, she's out here talking about her business like that. Right.

And just like when people are rapping the N-word, they didn't mean it like that. They just, they meant it as my homie, my-homey. You're right. Thought is equivalent to the N-word. You're right.

Shit, it's not too far off. It ain't the same. It's not too far off. It's not the same. It's something you. It's not the same. Not the same. World's finest chocolate.

Not the same. same. World flesh sugar. All right. We go take a break. This episode is brought to by Borris Head. What if we told you

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Borris Head committed to Kraft since 1905. All right, so the U.S. has indicted three men on hate crime charges in the death of Ahmaud Arbery. Now, in the wake of the unrest following the death of George Floyd, what happened with Ahmad Arbery in Georgia almost became something like an afterthought. But we have to remember that during that time, there were three things that sort of were working people up at the same time and it was Amad Arbery first and then it was

a Breonna Taylor's case coming in light and George Floyd all at the same time it was it was just a bad time kind of almost like something that we went through in the last couple of weeks with so many different shootings happening simultaneously so Travis McMichael and his father Gregory were charged

along with the third man William Roddy Bryant with one count of interference with civil rights and attempted kidnapping the McMichaels are also charged with using carrying and brandishing a firearm during a crime of violence Now if you remember this particular story

This had happened some time ago And the volume on Amar Arbery's death Only really got turned up When the video was made available to the public When people saw the video You saw this news And Rachel, your thoughts were what? I got upset

Because So yes what happened to Amad, or maybe it was his birthday, it was February, 2, 23. Because in May, wait, fact check me on this. But what happened? Amad was murdered February 23rd. We got the video in May.

The public got the video in May. And then we ran 2.23 miles on Amad's birthday. Yeah. So when I found out about them being charged with hate crimes. I was listening to CNN. I was in the office. And I heard the host on CNN say, you guys, you guys might not remember the story,

or she said something along the lines of, you guys may remember Ahmaud Arbery. And the way she phrased it upset me, because it was as if she spoke to us as if we forgot him. And I get that George Floyd, has taken precedent because of the way we saw it. Very, like, as it was happening, we saw the way it played out the reaction in the public.

Then we just went through the trial with Derek Chauvin. But for her to say it that way really bothered me. Like, no, we haven't forgotten about Ahmad Arbery just because you guys aren't reporting on it. Just because it's not on your news, doesn't mean that we don't remember him. And it just took me back, man. It took me back to May right as we were starting this podcast.

Seeing that video of Amad Arbery rocked me the same way it did with Trayvon Martin. I was, I couldn't have been, I couldn't be controlled. Like just seeing that, I got on social, I got on my live, I was crying about it. And just how she flippantly said that just reminded me that we, we have to continue in the fight to make sure that this stops happening to us

because they so quickly forget about it, how it rocked a community, how it rocked a family, just because it's not on their news cycle. I'm sorry, I'm just, I don't even remember what you asked me, but that was my thought when I saw that. That bothered me deeply because we haven't forgotten. We're still saying their names, whether it's on social, whether it's, in a march whether we're reading about it whether it's in a film we have not forgotten just because we don't talk about it we'll never forget and look the reality is that and i'm not

going to spend too much time on this but it's just another situation where the system's going to be on trial in this particular case uh the scrutiny that the community and a large part of america at large is going to have surrounding this case uh is it's going to be it's going to be it's going to going to be immense. There's a lot of pressure. And, you know, there's, either we're going to get to the point to where we can affect some sort of change to where this stops happening or it's going to create our society.

And we're going to have to decide that. I do want to read you something that is not on the rundown. It's not on the rundown. All right. And it's almost segment worthy to where someone should, to where I, it's like, don't be mad. van or something like that or van relax because something that was said by vice president Kamala Harris.

Recently? Just now, hours ago. You know, Tim Scott said last night in his response to President Biden's address to Congress after his first hundred days, that America is not a racist country. And that made a lot of people upset people who are paying attention and looking around

and saying that, hey, America is very much a racist country. country and that Tim Scott was wrong in sadness. Kamala Harris has weighed in on this about whether or not America is a racist country. She says, I don't think America is a racist country. But we also do have to speak about the truth behind the history of racism in our country and its existence today. That is what Kamala Harris said in reaction to Tim Scott's comments.

Horatio takes a drink of wine. No, there's no shade. No shade. What do you What are your thoughts on what she said? She said, but we do have to recognize that America's what? We do have to recognize. Excuse me. I don't think that America is a racist country, but we also do have to speak truth about the history of racism in our country and its existence today.

Then America is a racist country. I'm sorry. You just, to me, you just said it without saying it. If you have to recognize that America was built on ideals of racism, if you have to talk about the history that has happened, not just in the last century, but this current century, then America's a racist country.

And I don't know why we're afraid to say that if that's the truth. I don't care how you phrase it in the sentence thereafter. What she just said defines to me America as a racist country. So I don't have a huge issue with what she just said other than the fact that she just can't say it. right? I mean, like, it's almost as if people, when people don't want to say defund the police, but hey, there needs to be police reform and A, B, C, and D need to happen. Well, you're kind of just saying that we need to defund the police. Why are you so afraid of that terminology?

Yeah, like, you're afraid of that terminology because you're boot licking. Okay, but you're the vice president. So I guess if you're trying to preserve your reputation because you plan on running in the next four years, then, then I, go ahead. So here's, so here's a deal. there's some bootlicking going on here. And I'm going to be honest with you. It's disturbing. Okay. I'm agreeing with you.

And I know that you are. And what I'd say is this is like situations like this, these types of statements are made. I love Kamala Harris. I love Kamala Harris. Okay? Very proud of Kamala Harris. Very proud of her.

You know, there's a lot of things that were in her history, but if you look at her record overall, she reconciled those things and had been reconciled them for years. So very proud of Kamala Harris. Statements like that, to me, give white supremacy a softbed to land on. Because the one thing about white supremacy that is consistent about it or any type of supremacy, to be honest with you, is that it defies criticism. The very criticism of white supremacy is deemed as racist to the system of white supremacy. If you challenge it in any way, if you set a standard in any way, if you in some way, if you in some way try to meet it, well, you're fixated on race.

You're the racist. You're the racist if you actually take the information about American history, add it all up, and get the equal sign of pretty racist country. Okay. Pretty racist country. Sure. If you look at it. Now, here's the thing. Nobody has said that America is only a racist country. I think that's a very important distinction to make.

No one has said America is only a racist country. Is America a country where you can, where the son of a single mother from Hawaii, the mixed-race single mother Hawaii, biracial kid in Hawaii, can go on to become the president of the United States? Yeah, sure it is. Is America a country where the son of a preacher from Georgia can go on to become

one of the most important figures in world history? Yeah, of course it is. Is America a country where a little black girl can grow up to become a multi-billionaire in terms of her domination over media

have a television show run all these years to get Academy Award nominations is America of that country? Sure it is but it's also the other country and I hope people understand that the other country the racist one came first. It came first.

And what we are trying to do is kill that. And we're simply not going to kill it by pretending it ain't so. Exactly. And so for me, the disappointment that I feel in what Kamala had to say

doesn't have anything to do with the fact that I don't think that she knows these things. I think that she knows exactly that America is a racist country. I think she understands that. But the fact that we still fucking playing with these people. She's a politician. I love her.

It's not about Kamala Harris. Oh, I know you're not talking. Right. I know you're not attacking her as a person. Right. But why, like, why after all of this, are we still playing with these people? I guess that's why my thing is when you first read it to me and I'm listening and I'm like,

okay, she said it was racist without saying it's racist. I'm not surprised by that. I don't expect Kamala to say to stand up there and say America is a racist country. She's not going to play that. She's not going to do that. Well, I want to. She's going to play this game. She's not going to do that.

Well, that's fine. The next person I elect, they're going to have to say it. Yeah. I need somebody to say it and be like, look, we need to get a, we need to get a hand on this and we're not going to get a handle on it by pretending it ain't so. Without recognizing it. I think we have all learned that. You got to recognize what is to change it.

Right. Very true. Very true. All right, Trudy, you know what? You know what, Trudy? Seriously. Like, we don't have a lot of time. The reality of the truth.

The reality, Trudy dropped the song because it's Melback time. Bring it. Bring the song. Trudy now. Mailback time. Time to read your letters and then we'll reply to them. Oh, it's mailback time. Write us with your queries and we'll chime in.

Okay, so first question from Shemiso M. Where's one place in the world you won't travel and why? Then she says, example. I guess I don't even know if this I don't know if Shemiso is a female name or a male name but they say it says Australia because of bugs or snakes like she's not going to go to Australia because of bugs or snakes

Oh she gave an example? Yeah is it is this a man or a woman Shemisa It's a woman Okay yeah so she went she's not going to Australia because of bugs and snakes she's scared of them Okay well for me I'm not going to go anywhere

Like cold Super cold I don't know there's not I don't know I'm not going to go to Russia no desire to go to Russia no desire to go to Russia no desire to go to Russia

Croatia is beautiful not Russia it's very true it's not Russia no desire to go to Russia I have no idea why you just said that I'm just saying because I always some people the reason I said that

somebody showed me his picture and this is a beautiful fucking place. This also shows you how the news and the media can skew your perception of something. When you think of Croatia and me growing up, you think of this war-torn war-torn place with bombs and stuff?

Yeah, it was like a big time. I had a homie that played basketball over there, so I had like known it was a beautiful place for a while. Sleeping a bed with him? No, not that one. I dated him. So, no. So yes. Oh, whoa! Whoa, Rich. Russia's a good answer.

Shout out to all the Russians out there, but I don't really have a desire to go to Russia. Okay. Next question. From Brandy Mist. If you slash your life had a theme song, what would it be? Easy. Kiss from a rose by seal.

Be-da-da-da-boom, baby. Why? Because it's just like, me. I can't stand seal. It's out of left field. It's quirky. It's memorable.

It's over the top. It's all of those things. Kiss from a rose by seal would be the song. No, I need a set of vibe. Like I either need somebody to be singing like bad mamma jammer or something. No, horrible. Or of course you're going to say horrible. Or like.

I'm just joking. Like a, I don't know, like a really. chill vibe like a money trees or something. Oh money trees is a good idea. How about like a rock? Okay, I'm not mad at it. Like a rock. I love that fucking song. What commercial was that for? It used to be on the goddamn

the truck commercial. I love that. Man, that's a good one. And oh, there was one. Somebody find this commercial for me. There's a commercial that legitimately used to make me emotional. And it was beer commercial. This guy walks into, it's like a course commercial. With the horses? No. And this, I think it's cool, Coors or Boisers. It might be Coors. And this guy is in a bar. And for some reason

in this bar, he starts singing Rocky Mountain High. And I don't know why. And then this black woman joins in while he's singing Rocky Mountain High. And then the whole bar starts singing Rocky Mountain High. I don't know if this was after John Denver's passing. or whatever, but I'm going to listen to that shit when I go on my next wall. I love that fucking song. Yeah, but it was. You win commercials. I love commercials.

I'm on antidepressants. Commercials make me emotional. All right. All right, come on. Let's go. From Jamie. Since starting a pod, what's the most impactful thing you learned from your co-host? All right.

This is the last question. Somebody clearly doesn't want to answer this question. What's the most impactful thing I've learned from my co-host? I've learned, seriously, I've learned myriad things from Rachel. I've learned a lot of things. I think the most impactful thing that I've learned from her is specifically what it's like to be to have composure and grace in the middle of everyone talking about you. And just kind of like just seeing the way she goes about how she would. I joked about it the entire time.

But just seeing the way she went about things when all of that stuff was going on, it's like, yeah, there's a way to handle stuff and there's a way to not handle it. And I think that's kind of the most impactful thing that I've learned. Thank you. Yeah, whatever. You know what? I needed to hear that. It makes them uncomfortable, y'all.

I would say it's going through with you and sharing with the audience and me learning as well, the journey of your mental health. Oh, yeah. Because when we started this podcast, I didn't even realize what you were going through and what you were struggling with. And then for you to be so open with me, with all of us about what you go through,

I know it hasn't just helped me. It's helped somebody else. And so, like, I appreciate that. And I think that that's something that a part of the podcast that people love and that people who have known you for years really maybe not, didn't know about it. You know? Very true.

Okay, Rachel, do you have an unexpected ally of the week? Oh, no, I forget about that segment. That's it. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry, y'all. I'll do better. Did we take it off pause? But, yeah, not really.

I don't know. We didn't tell. We can bring it back next week. Okay. Did you have one? If you have one, I want to give somebody there flowers. I do. I do have one.

The Motion Picture Academy of Arts and Sciences. You know what? Unexpected ally of the week. We appreciate you crazy bastards for everything that you did. All right. Rachel, I'll be recording from Hawaii next week. I'm going to Hawaii tomorrow. I don't know if you're just giving me information or bragging,

but I'm happy for you. Y'all see how dedicated to the podcast he is. No days off. Go to take us with him on vacation. First time. To vacation. First time I've ever been in Hawaii. First time ever been in Hawaii.

I'm so jealous. I've never been. Never been. I can't wait to talk to you about it. Nope. Yeah. But the judge didn't take you guys on a, a tramp steamer.

The judge has gone to Hawaii without us. The judge. My mom and my dad went. Oh, I thought you were saying that the judge went to Hawaii by himself. I was like, oh shit. He's not like that.

All right. That's it. That's it. Take a thing, caps off, but do not stop learning. Higher learning is over for today. I am Van Lathen. I am Rachel Lindsay.

Shout out to our producers. Donnie Beach and Matry or Trudy Joseph. We are out.