Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - R. Kelly Found Guilty, and Unvaccinated in the NBA

Episode Date: September 28, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to the guilty verdict in the R. Kelly trial and that age-old question of separating the artist from the art (23:10). Plus, national police reform talks fail (42:46), the NBA faces vaccination troubles (1:08:37), and Will Smith opens up about his open marriage with Jada Pinkett Smith (1:19:08). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Our learning is on. It's Ivan Lathan. And it's me, Rachel Lindsay. Rachel Lindsay, uh, listen, we had a spirited conversation before the podcast started. It was quite spirited. Rachel is still trying to name five Christina Milion movies or songs.

Off the top of my head without Googling. Yes. Without Googling. And it's, it's a sad thing because I was not trying to diss Christina Million. What I was just saying. saying was that I feel like Rachel and to a degree Trudy our great producer was sort of overrating Christina Villian just a tad bit. I love the Van is telling you all that he's not hating.

Both Trudy and myself were basically saying give Christina Milian some flowers, give her her credit because Van said that she was, and I quote, a sliver, a sliver. above Tanashi. Yeah. Which I cannot get behind. I cannot co-sign that statement. No. Okay.

Christina Millian has done way more than Tanashi. And she's more relevant. And she's more relevant than Tanashi. Maybe. And what I said was, y'all said she's done so much stuff. She has. Just because I didn't say I was a super fan. I can't, sorry, I can't name every single thing.

She just just. Too many things to name. Too many things to name, guys. This is all I said. She had the reality show. She's done a lot of stuff. This is all I said. All I said was, look, she's done so much.

You guys like it. I said, for both of you, name me five Christine Emileon songs. And then named me five Christiana Millian movies. Couldn't do it. I feel like if you have a discography on Wikipedia, a filmography, then you're doing some things. She's doing some things. But the question is, how much of an impact does do those things to make? Let me look up Tanashi real quick.

Because I'm still scrolling. I'm still scrolling through Christina Milian. I have a feeling I'm not going to be doing that. She's been all she, Tina Milian has been a lot longer than Tenashi. A lot. Yeah. Not that much longer.

Tanashi's 28. Christina Milian is nearly 40. That doesn't mean that her, I'm looking, I'm looking when she got started. It's this early 2000s. She was already doing some stuff. Who?

Tanashi. Snash. right so when did she she got started when did she drop when did she knock she drop she was rock nation she was in the polar express as a child

and then she was on she had a reoccurring role on two and a half men she was on out of jimby's head on the cartoon network between she was a member of the girl group the stunners

ooh they had some mixtapes her debut single two on was featuring fucking schoolboy Q produced by mussels that came out in 2013 Tanashi

Tanashi Tanashi Christina Millian has been nominated for multiple Grammys as what as a singer what do you mean? But like as a featured artist

right? No for her stuff like what was she nominated for a Grammy for? Let me go back awards and nomination Grammy Award for Best Contemporary R&B album.

Oh, really? Best Grammy Award for Best Rap slash song collaboration. That is with Jaru. That is with Fabulous. Fabulous or Jarl is with somebody. But the first one is all her. It's by herself, yeah. Yeah.

So here's the deal. Like, what I'm looking at it is this. And this is the thing. Bring it on, fight to the finish. ABC Family original movie, uh, Family original movie Christmas Cupid. She's been around for a long time.

She's, I know the movies that she's been in stuff like that. But what I'm telling you is that the reality is that she just hasn't made that much of an impact. It's the truth. She's been a great career. Hasn't been an impact.

I think they're both great women. I think Christina has had more of an impact, more than a sliver. She's had more of an impact to the culture in pop culture more than a sliver of that than Tanashi.

But at the end of the day, Van, I don't want it to put two black women against one another. You already did. So here's the deal. This is what they said when we were doing the pun when they did it.

And so as soon as I said it, because we were comparing, this is a lot of this happened. We were comparing, she said, Rachel said that she interviewed Chloe and Haley, Hallie.

And then I said, I'm partial to Normani. See, I'm going to be honest with you guys. I love comparing artists. I love comparing art. It's to me, there's nothing wrong with it. Compare it. Just like I say, hey, Kobe Bryant's better than Dwayway. It's the same way I say, I'm partial to Normani over Chloe.

You didn't use the word partial. I said she's better. She's better. Normani is better. I feel like Normani is getting fucking hosed in the game. I think Normani is getting hos in the game.

She's everywhere. She's getting, no. Chloe is getting all of this stuff but really is Normani. Now, Chloe and Normani don't want to do this. They don't want to have this back and forth because they are too classy for it. They don't want to retread of Monica and Brandy.

They don't want to retread of Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey. They don't want to retread of Beyonce and Rihanna, but guess what? That's what's going to happen. And it's good. It's good for the consumer. It's good for the artist.

Nas and JZ, good for the culture. Prince and Michael Jackson, good for the culture. It's good as long as people don't hate the other person. Correct. As long as they don't hate as long as they don't. DeCardy B, Nikki, they didn't went too far because they actually got to swinging on each other for real. But overall, it's good.

And just to be real with you, I love Christina Milian She's a very nice person She's a she's very talented But I was just saying I feel like you guys were making it like Christina Milian was But to be honest with you

Every woman of that era Suffered under the weight of Beyonce and Rihanna They all did Was Rihanna that early Rihanna was maybe like 2004 2005 Was she that early? Yep. Wow.

Like music of the sun. It came out and then they started building because think about it. It used to be a very healthy group of ladies. Sierra was there. Yeah, Sierra was definitely in the group. Maya was still around. Maya. Maya was dope.

Maya got a, Maya and Brandy got there running in the 90s, right? And then unfortunately, of course, we lost a Leah. But then like as Beyonce really grabbed everything. She took control. The only person. that really had any oxygen was Rihanna. Rihanna came up in there, hey, and then she did her thing.

Yeah. Good points. Good points. So, but so, and so it's just been recently, as Beyonce has become the elder stateswoman of this, of this, that you've seen a crop of amazing. The scissors, the summer walkers, all of these people come out. And now there might be a passing of the baton to Chloe. I think that's what Beyonce is trying to do. She's trying to pass the baton right over Normani and give it to Chloe.

Well, obviously, Chloe signed to her. So she's definitely, if she's passing the baton to anyone, it's Chloe. And you think Chloe is better than Normani? Van, I think they're both great. I think, no, I need you to make a decision. In what way? In what way? Overall. They're both fantastic.

artist. But for me, I like, I like Chloe over Normani. If we're comparing the two, I'm into Chloe's music more than I'm into Normani's. I'm into Chloe's style, the musical styles of Chloe than I am Normani. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject tremphia, proper training is required.

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Restrictions apply. See terms at fandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. Rachel, how was your weekend? How was your weekend? It was okay. I mean, I worked. Rach, are you tired? Are your spirits low?

I've been working like 14 days straight. Oh, man. Like no days off. And I'm exhausted. So it's once again, I worked another event this weekend. I did have some fun, though. What was fun about the weekend? Tell us, Rach's world.

This is a new segment. Ray, you call Rachel's World. Rachel's World. Rachel's World. Well, I'm really putting myself out there and meeting new people. Okay. So Friday I went to a dinner of a friend that I met through another friend. He hosted a dinner, had like a chef serve, had people from all walks of life like dancers, singers, singers, production.

On air, people, tech. And it was great. And I was meeting all these are people like a couple of friends I knew like Justin and Scott. You know Justin. You met Justin at LSU game. And so it was so much fun. And then we left the dinner and we went to night and. because they have a party,

which I'm so not used to in L.A. This is a very L.A. thing. Where are you going to party? Oh, I'm going to go party at the highlight room. But on Wednesdays, it's called Sadiq. So you name parties on days. I'm not used to that. So the promotions can brand themselves.

Okay, so very new, very L.A. So this party was called Avita at Nightingale on Fridays. It was great. Like, Cupcake performed. There were, they were vogue. They, like, created like, a soul train line of vogueing. There was a drag show. There were other performances.

It was great. I had such a fun time. Work Saturday. Sunday I went to my friend Megan's birthday party. I had a good time meeting a bunch of people. Yeah. It's good. What did you do this weekend?

Chilled out. LSU Saturday. Football Sunday. Oh. Oh. What? Yes. I am so glad you brought that up.

I did. Because what happened on Saturday? Who beat who in the SEC? Proving that they are not the bottom of at the bottom of the SEC. Who beat who? I don't know what you're talking about. Arkansas beat Texas A&M. It's true.

Arkansas's good to you. And you accused me of losing to one of the worst teams in the SEC. And I said Arkansas is actually really good. It's not that Texas is bad. Arkansas is very good. And Arkansas knocked off the number seven team in the country. Arkansas is a good team. Arkansas is not a blue blood in the SEC.

We're talking about this year. Yeah, well, this year they're pretty good. But here's the thing, though. So is UCLA. You know, like, so is UCLA. The point was you were like, they lost to an unranked team. And at the time, Arkansas was an unranked team. So is UCLA.

Arkansas is doing that thing. But the reality of the situation is that Texas is not. going to come into the SEC and dominate. And neither will Oklahoma. Oklahoma flat out is, they kind of whack. Let's, let's timestamp this and revisit this in two years, okay, when we get into the SEC. Texas hasn't won a national championship since 2005.

They haven't won the conference. Like, Texas football is down. Like, Oklahoma's been slapping them about the head. Don't act like we didn't go to the national championship in 2009, though. Don't act like we didn't get back there, okay? And we lost because our quarterback got hurt on the. first play. Yeah. So here's the thing about that. That's like 13 years ago. Like that's like a long time. What are the years that LSU has won one? We won in 2000. We won a couple of years ago.

Yeah. We won in 2003. We won in 2007. Okay. And we won in 2005 and we went back in 2009. You just won again. And now you're big talking. You just won again. We won the SEC in 2011. Nobody cares about that stuff. Oh, we don't care. Nobody cares about winning the conference championship. All I'm saying is that, all I'm saying is that

Texas hadn't been shit in a long time. And you can't say the same about LSU. You just can't. Texas hadn't been shit. Texas hadn't been shit. How many coaches is Texas at? Let's see, since Mac? Yeah. We're on third.

Right. Third coach since Mac. Third coach at Texas. Tom Herman, nothing. Steve Sarkisian, nothing. He just started what he means? Three games in. He's two and one.

He's two and one. Listen. With the soar as a wife? He's married to a black woman? Yeah, he is. Go Texas. Got him. Yes, he is.

And she's fabulous. Hokem. Remember when he was drunk? We covered that whole thing. Let's not do that. Let's not do that. We covered that whole thing at TMZ. I'm sure you did. He was so drunk, man. He was drunk. They fired him. He came to, he got his life back on track. He got his very, but, but you know where he went to get his life back on track? What conference did he visit? No, forget what conference. He went to Saban. He went to

Alabama. He went to SCC to get his life back on track. He went to the SEC to got his life back on track. I'm actually happy for SAC. That's a lot. That is actually a very, very good story. And by the way, in the SEC West this year, all of the teams that are traditionally down are actually the teams that are the great in the conference. Besides Alabama, you have Ole Miss, which is fucking fantastic. Matt Corralic, quarterback, Lane Kiffin. And then you have Arkansas who's doing well as well.

Arkansas beat the entire state of Texas. They fucked over Texas A&M. They fucked over Texas. And they're actually, to your point, they're looking pretty good. They're looking pretty good. So you got a WNBA. thing on the back of your WNBA, Tennessee, Brent Orange.

How do you feel about the WNBA and them saying that they deserve pay that's equal to the NBA or on par or better pay? On par. On par. On par makes sense. I mean, they're not going to get the exact amount because they don't play as many games and all of that.

But I don't know what the salaries are, but last time I checked it was like a significant difference. It's embarrassing. That's why they have to go. go overseas and they make way more money. So it's like, can we at least get on par with overseas? Can they at least not have to leave our country to get the respect that they deserve when it comes to pay?

Like, it needs to be on par for sure. Having just gone to a WMBA game, I had a fabulous time and the energy is great and they have really loyal fans. And it's been a while since I've been to a game and it has made like drastically, drastically improved audience-wise for the last time. from audience-wise, I mean, like the support from the game is significantly growing. And I like they definitely, it's ridiculous. It's embarrassing what they're getting paid.

I want to ask you something about something I just heard Bill Burr say. So Bill Burr, comedian who's always ruffling feathers, he does a set, he does a bit where he says, women complain about the WNBA and how much the WNBA players are making. It's like a lot of women complain about that. But then he goes, women don't support the WNBA. And he says, if women supported the WNBA, they would be making more money. He's like, you know who women support?

He said women support like the Kardashians or the real housewives, people who make significantly more money than WNBA players do because they have much bigger audiences that generate a lot more revenue. I thought to myself, I was like,

I'm not going to lie. has a point about that. Like, do you think it's, the WNBA audience is like very, very, it's very small compared to the NBA audience. Sure. How do you, I'm thinking to myself, like, how do you balance that? Like, how do you balance the fact that it's not as popular a league, even though it is really great to watch?

It's not as popular league. And it's not necessarily popular with women overall. So who's who. And I'm not, this is not a sexist statement in any kind of way. But like, I don't, I think that's a hard comparison to make because you're also, you're then assuming that women are into sports as much, right? Like, so are, if you said that women were supporting basketball and not supporting the, I mean, the NBA and not supporting the WNBA, okay. But you're saying they're watching Housewives and Kardashians. Those same people who are watching that may not be into sports, period.

So you're saying they have to watch the WNBA because it's women that are playing? I'm not saying. So then it's not a woman's issue then. Correct. It's my point. That's why I say what Bill Burr say is like. Well, no, no, no. So then it's people who watch sports.

I know. So then it's not an issue of sexism at all then. Okay. Because so, so like what I'm saying is that like if the, if the point that he's making, and by the way, he's being incendiary and making the point. Sure, sure. The point that he's making is that there are. things that women like a lot.

And rather it be like whatever it is, we know that the real housewives or even the bachelor or the bachelor at those are driven by female numbers. So there are things that women like a lot. Correct. The WNBA happens to not be one of them. So the issue in it of itself, if it's something that women aren't really supporting, because women might be sports fans that are, I'm sure the WNBA has a majority female audience. actually I'm not sure about that.

I don't know whether that's true or not. I would imagine that a lot of the people that supported are female. But if you can't really, if you can't put a gender on the argument itself and say, well, women don't watch sports as much. And then the portion of women that watch the WNBA are smaller, then where does that match up in terms of what salaries they should be getting? You know what I mean? So like it's like where's the money supposed to come from?

I mean, so you're saying that they should be paid based on, on how many people are watching their sport? Well, I'm saying everybody is. To me, I think they deserve, no, no, no. This is not what I'm saying. I think the NBA players deserve more money. No, I'm not saying you're deserving, but what you just said is like,

what I'm saying is for people who are going to argue against it. Yeah, okay. Like, to me, this is the way I feel. And I've always felt this way. And this comes from me being at TMZ. If you on TV, get paid like you're on TV. So if the WNBA players aren't worth more money than what they're making right now, because we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars at some point,

then just dissolve the league. If they're not worth that, if they're not worth making that much more money, they just dissolve the league. That's the way I look at it. Now, the players would say that they would never do that because they would never want to do that because the WNBA is a huge promotional tool for them inside the United States of America. the question is if somebody comes to you and just argue straight dollars what's the how do you answer them?

I mean, that's tough. Like I don't even know if I would have a counter argument to it. If you're basing it just off of the money that's coming in based on the people who watch it and the people who are sponsoring it, you know, like how much sponsorship dollars they're getting, then it's hard to say equal if the amount's not the same. Yeah, that's tough. Because then you could go base.

bankrupt if you're not bringing in a certain amount of money that you're giving out. Right. I think they might be, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if the WNBA makes a profit, though. And again, I don't know either. I don't know. It's just interesting.

I personally think it's just a bad look. I really, if you want to be honest, I would do it just for the optics. It's like they can afford to do it. So I would do it literally, I would do it just for the optics, just for the optics. The optics are bad. And I also think that the league, that the NBA could promote the league better and we could get to know the players better

and they could do different things and do more stuff because all of these problems that we have with the NBA, we don't have any of them with the WNBA. The WNBA is 99% vaccinated. The WNBA was in lockstep with social justice. From the beginning, you didn't have all of this different stuff, right? So the league, there is a lot to be,

and the game itself, if you like basketball, if you love basketball, like I love basketball, there's no way you can watch a WNBA game and say it's not entertaining. I know that's right. Now, if you like watching guys do athletic feats and that makes you a casual fan, if you say, oh, if motherfucker's not dunk

and I don't like basketball and you're a casual fan, then yeah, that's cool. Watch and one. You want to see people catch lobs. That shit is very entertaining to watch. I used to be so into it back again. That shit is very entertaining to watch, very. So, but if you like basketball, they out there hoopin.

And the product is better than this every man. But I just thought about that and I just wondered. I just wondered as that. I want to talk to a WNBA player about that. I want to have that very discussion. We'll be on Chenet. We'll be on Chenet. And like, because she's the person that asked to shoot down that narrative because

somebody sent that to me and they were like, this is, he's, he's killing your equal pay argument. I've never said equal. I've said they deserve more money. on par is what you said, which I think is doesn't necessarily have to mean equal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let me. Okay, so we've done two topics that are not on the rundown.

That have talked about young women. Yeah, get off us, Van. And I'm gonna be, and we're about to do another topic that talks about young women. This is a tough segue. Thought warriors, clutch your pearls. I know you love to clutch them. because it's time to talk about the R. Kelly verdict.

The segue. I didn't want to just go speaking of young women. Maybe this is my stomach is hurting so bad. This is my stomach is sitting like this, by the way. I know, you're disgusted over this R. Kelly verdict. You're disgusted over this verdict. You're disgusted. R. Kelly jurors in the Eastern District of New York have found R. Kelly guilty.

nine counts, one count of racketeering with 14 underlying acts that included sexual exploitation of a child, kidnapping, robbery, and sex trafficking charges. Also, eight additional counts of violation of the man act, which is a sex trafficking law. Seven men, seven women began deliberating on Friday afternoon. He is scheduled to be sentenced May 4th of next year, which is a while away. He's got a lot of other stuff, a lot of other stuff in other states to kind of clear up. But R. Kelly is now busted on these things. The sentence looks like it could be a lengthy one. He's 54 now.

Chances are very slim that R. Kelly will ever see the light of day again because he's got charges everywhere. Who knows the way this works out. This is a big deal. Racketeering. Are Kelly basically ran in a whole operation for years for the purposes of grooming, exploiting, and then holding captive young women. When you first saw this, what did you think? Bye. Good.

Go. I mean, this has been going on for who knows how long. You know, I think, again, we talked about this on the podcast. We always heard things. we chose to turn a blind eye to it we kept listening to the music kept going to concerts kept defending him

and there's a whole boondocks episode on it and we like because he was R. Kelly because he was R. Kelly and simply because of the music that he was given us and what he meant to our culture and then surviving R. Kelly came out and it really opened people's eyes

in a way they could no longer turn away from what he was doing. It wasn't just a rumor anymore. It became a reality. You were confronted with the very people who were living under R. Kelly's rule. And

I'm happy to see him go down. It's, I mean, Mighty is the fall. I don't think he'll ever come out of jail. I can't imagine him. I mean, with all these charges that are against him, it's going to be decades and decades of sentencing. I mean, I can't imagine he'll ever see an outside of a prison cell again or prison walls again. But he's got to go.

This is the only right thing. And I'm glad that I guess justice, if you want to call it, that prevailed in this instance. Yeah, he's actually, he actually is facing charges in another state. I think Florida of fixing the trial that he had in the late 2000s where he beat the charges. so there may be some foul play involved in why he was never convicted of criminal charges in the first place. I got to ask you a question. Do you feel guilty at all? Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Is this the biggest cultural blind spot that we've ever had? Mm-hmm. I don't remember if I said this on the, well, no, Michael. But I think that I set this on the podcast before. Yes, I said that. I said this on the podcast before. I remember being at the University of Texas,

R. Kelly was performing on stage, and there were protesters. And I was like, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. You know, I went on stage that night. He was inviting people to step in the name of love. I stepped in the name of love. And it was like I totally, I didn't want to hear or see anything that they were saying. It is.

I feel guilty. I didn't want to hear anything people were saying because I wanted to enjoy myself for a few hours that night. And yes, I do feel guilty. Yes, because I chose to ignore it. You know, he was on trial before. It didn't.

He wasn't found guilty. And I was like, well, you know, he wasn't found guilty. So, you know, that was really the way that I was thinking of it. And I do feel bad because obviously it had been going on way before that. And I chose the music over the people, the victims. So I do feel guilty. Yeah.

So I'm not going to, of course, I feel worse than guilty. I feel complicit. I was going to say, I was going to say, Dan, please. I mean, you know, I've never been invited on the stage to step in the name of love. But at the time, I was 360 pounds. So there wouldn't have been a lot of, you know, I'd been up there. it had been stomping in the name of love everybody would have been stepping

and it would have been like stomping the name of love boom boom boom you ever see Jurassic Park when the water jiggles you ever see the Jurassic part when the when the fucking T-Rex is stomping

and like and the fucking and the water is ripply through the water that would have been everybody's soda stop that wasn't true but but no so this is why I put the R. Kelly situation in the

I close my eyes and I see the water jicling. Boom. Boom. Boom. So this is why I put the Art Kelly situation in a different light than everything. And it'll come as no secret to everyone, even Michael Jackson. So I'll tell you why I put it in a different light than everyone.

And this is not to compare to two cases. And we're eventually going to do the whole Michael Jackson thing so we can talk about it. But so like in 95 or 94, I was watching a show called Video Vibrations. There were two video shows that came on BET. One was Video Soul. Then the other one was video vibrations. Video Soul was the flagship. Video Vibrations was just like a video show that came on later on or whatever show videos.

and people will pop in or whatever. And I remember there was a point in video vibrations. This is 94-95 where it broke away to something. And it said singer R. Kelly and Aaliyah have been married. It might have been earlier than that. It might have been like 93. They've been married. And it showed R. Kelly.

And they were showing B-roll from one of his videos. He's up there. He's with the leather. And he's got ball. And I was like, God damn, they married? I remember thinking, shit. Alia is my age. like he married her

and they got they were married they were it was reported on this show that they were married right like they were married uh X amount of time happened they annulled it got divorced or whatever never addressed it

Arkelly moved on Alia became a huge huge global superstar R Kelly got even more popular when the R album came out and then you had half on the baby and everything was on there and then after that you had tp2.com

which just completely took over everything still one of the greatest albums ever made you know what I mean and so it just it was no one even thought about it no one even mentioned it right cool then the piece of child pornography

it's not sex tape the piece of child pornography was released everybody watched it, they became a cultural talking point. There was at no point in that that we didn't know the age of the girl. Like Ms. Jones, Ms. Jones was on the radio in New York

crying and begging Jay-Z not to do the best of both worlds album that they eventually did, by the way, because of what she had just saw. Everybody was watching it as if what was taking place wasn't a crime. Now I was a lot younger. But I sat back when I heard about the verdict and I thought, why did no one rain the alarm?

I think there's a couple reasons. Number one, I think we communicated about these things a lot less. And I don't think we had realized. I don't think that we had realized the gravity of what was going on. Like a 14-year-old girl was being raped. And like we made skits and jokes. and it became a, you know, I remember Arkelly called himself the Piper

and after he called himself to Pye Piper on those songs, I was like, yo, does he know who the Pye Piper was? He shouldn't be calling himself that. It was a punchline, but we never really gave a shit about the actual abuse that was taking place. I don't know if we even saw it as abuse. It was a sign of the Times.

That video came out today. It would have been totally different reaction. Oh, my God, of course. It's a sign of the Times. Remember Mad TV was a... Do you remember that skid, Matt TV, the world's greatest? Yeah. And the song was the world's greatest statutory rapist.

And the girls were holding signs with their underages on it. And there was the, I want to piss on you. It was a joke, but these are actual crimes. And we were all laughing at it. And the web, the web that he wove in order to be able to do this. This was a compulsion. This was, this was a life. goal for R. Kelly that in many ways was more focused and bigger than the music.

Yeah. He had, we're talking about racketeering charges here. We're talking about a conspiracy that he had to maintain in order to feed young women to his desire. He had to manufacture victims over a long period of time. And we let him. And I wonder now who are the R. Kellys. Who are hurting people in all of these ways that we're just letting them do it. Here's the thing too.

Start to wall. You're putting together that big of a web, as you said. Spitting together that big of a web, you can't do it by yourself. Who are these people helping you do it? You're not doing that alone. That's what you also have to look at. So I would hope that there are other people who are getting charged as well. because R. Kelly didn't do this by himself.

There's no way that he could have. There was a team of people helping him get off and do this for years and years and years. We're talking about groom the young girls, control the young girls. One woman said that there was a certain sexual position that R. Kelly liked her in and he would make her stay in that position for hours. Like this, like, and some of the stuff that we're learning, Art Kelly's one of his biggest calling cards was the fact that he had a large sexual appetite. Like he always talked about it in all of his songs. And that's why he wrote a bunch of songs about sex and making love and all of that stuff or whatever.

This is not sex that we're talking about. This is rape what we're talking about. But no one, I never thought that he was this much of a devise. And how could you not think that after you, uh, you watched that tape? I never saw the tape. You know that? It was a big thing. I was in college at that point.

I mean, I was, yeah, I was still living under my parents' roof. So there was no way that was getting into the Lindsay household. I knew about it. I never saw. I never saw it. Well, you're, you're lucky. It was like, it was very blurry hard to make album points. But it was, uh, it was a cultural.

phenomenon. It was something that everybody watched. And by the way, everybody who watched it was breaking the law, was participated in it. It was, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, I, I, I, I, I feel, uh, I, I feel guilty, but I also feel deeply disturbed and disappointed in my, my, my generation, in my group and myself. It's like, we went on to be, we went on to be, uh, we ought to be, uh, we ought to be, uh, we ought to be, entertained by this stuff. Entertained by stepping the name of love. Entertained by you saved me. entertained by trapped in the closet.

All of that stuff. And even as early as, if not for Dream Hampton, shout out to Dream Hampton. If not for Dream Hampton, who did survive in R. Kelly, if not for Dreamhampton, nothing would have changed.

And Dreamhampton and the very courageous women who came out and and broke the chains of what they were going through and put their sanity on the line. If not for them, this continues. It's interesting when you talk about, you say you're disappointed in the generation. And, you know, like that people were still listening to the music and people were watching the tape.

And it was a punchline for jokes on late night shows and comedy tours and all of that. And it's this whole argument. of do you separate the music from the artist? Or do you see it all together? And I think that's what the generation was doing. And I'm not excusing it. I just think that that's what we do.

We separate the person who's making the music from the actual music. And what I've come to realize with R. Kelly, you know, after realizing how wrong it all was and how we were so guilty and that we were continuing to praise him and listen to his music and support and all that, is that when you, I can't even listen to songs anymore because I don't know who you were talking about when you were talking about those songs. And I don't think that you can separate the artist from the music.

This recently came under fire in the Grammys, just this last Grammys, the man who Kesha accuses of raping her, he changed his name. Dr. Luke changed his name, yeah. Changed his name. And he got nominated for a Grammy this year because he produced Doja Cat's song, Say So.

And there was a lot of controversy surrounding that because it's should he be nominated knowing that these accusations and allegations are out here against him. And I remember interviewing Harvey Macy Jr. And I asked him that question. And he talked about separating the artist from the music. I don't think that that's fair. I don't think, I personally do not think that you can do that. What do you think?

I think that people do it selectively. I think you separate the artist from the music based upon what you care about. So if right now Eminem came out and said And they did put They did have old videos of him saying this So let's not use Eminem If Jack Harlow came out right now

It was like there was a video of Jack Harlow going Fuck all the niggers Fuck them I make this nigger music for these niggers There's a video of Eminem doing that There's a tape of Eminem Eminem was dating the black girl back in the day And

So this is a moment in hip hop history. Eminem some kind of way found himself at odds with a guy who got pitched to us to come on this podcast, which his name is Dave Mays, he used to run Source Magazine. And Dave Mays and Benzino, they ran the source. Source magazine was a hip-hop Bible. They would give five mics. It was a five-mic rating system. We all know this.

Then they gave Benzino five mics, and we never trusted the source again. Because we were like, there's no fucking way. Benzino get no five mics. Dave Maze gave his brother, his homeboy five mics. Anyway, they were going back and forth with Eminem for whatever, Eminem and the whole fucking camp. They were going back and forth with Eminem. And they included a CD of something that Eminem had done back in the day where I guess

he was mad at a girl and he had broken up with her. She was black. And he had made a song where he referred to her as a nigger and did all of these things. it was on tape and then the source put it out the source did it the source was going back and forth him came out he apologized he said he was in the spot he was mad he did this he did that whatever he was different and all of that i think it didn't really hit as much because it was something from his past once again he was younger when he did it whatever people moved on also it was a different time um what i'm telling you is right now number one that could never be uh

revealed about a rap artist that was white and have them survive it i mean I'm sure they keep some of their white fans. But right now, if you saw that happen, people wouldn't separate the art and artists. Because the reason why they wouldn't separate the art and artists is because the only time you do that is when you're offended. Like,

are you offended? Has he come, has he hurt you? Right. So if he says, uh, the N word, I'm offended.

I'm gonna be angry every time I see him. The question to ask is why sometimes that doesn't have. happen when you're talking about artists who offend or abuse LGBTQ people or women or people like that. Why don't we take that offense? Why don't we go, hey, I'm pissed off? Like, in a sense with, in a sense with R. Kelly, like, why didn't, why weren't we not, forget about, why weren't we mad at it?

Because it's not, thinking is discussing this one thing. but why weren't like a 14 year old girl we saw it so why why why were we not mad about it you just answered your question people get enraged over things that impact them where they can feel it it affected them it affected a family member it affected a close friend so it's it's it hits home and if if if if you knew the 14 year old you would have had a totally different reaction. People separated it. It was just a

it was a young girl in a blurry video or people like me who never even saw it and you heard it so it almost you knew it happened but it almost wasn't real

because I never even saw it. Obviously it was and I've admitted my guilt in all of this. I'm just saying the things we do to excuse bad behavior. And we all do it.

Yeah. Okay. Moving on to the Democrats. This is a depressing podcast. It is depressing, but we're fucking doing it because I'm sick of the Democrats. Okay. Look, guys, first of all, let me- You're angry.

Go ahead. Let me preface this real quick. I understand that there are a lot of obstruction. There's a lot of obstruction going on right now in Washington. I understand that the Democrats trying to get their agendas pass are battling not only the right, but they're battling two moles in their own party, Mansion and cinema, trying to to get these things done. Okay.

But I don't appreciate the effort that's being given. And I don't appreciate the way that things are going. Case and point. We are stalled right now in the George Floyd Policing Act. We're stonewalled. Doesn't look like it's going to happen. Corey Booker has been talking about this. Right.

When Cory Booker talks about the fact that the George Floyd and Policing Act, is not is is is is is a impasse a standstill right now this is what he says he says it was a frustrating experience in the sense that we had the biggest civil rights demonstration in this country's history asking for change we wanted to have more transparency higher professional standards and real accountability if you break the law you should be shielded from that he added He added that he hopes to get it done in the future And he spoke very warmly Of the guy he was doing the bill with

Of course, Senator Tim Scott from South Carolina Corey Booker was very conciliatory He was affable when talking about Senator Scott He made it seem like there were things That him and Senator Scott just couldn't agree on But they both in their heart Wanted to get something done believes in the sincerity of Senator Scott.

He also said that he had the head of the police union on board to get something done, something that they could do, but just couldn't make it happen with Senator Scott, a guy who's his friend, who he likes, who he believes him. This is what Senator Tim Scott had to say about it. He said, we said simply this, I'm not going to participate in reducing funding for the police. after we saw major city after major city defund the police. He said the bill advocated for defunding the police

and was the left's obsession with defunding the police that brought the bill to a standstill. All right. What he is doing is directly blaming the people who he feels like or responsible for making, the bill not go. What Cory Booker is doing is saying, hey, a lot of people wanted this, but we just couldn't make it happen. Right.

We tried, but we failed. Whereas Senator Tim Scott is saying, hey, this is Cory Booker's fault. The Democrats are playing flag football and the Republicans are playing the hunger games. it's completely different. Let me tell you why it matters. It matters because as black people, as Americans, as Americans, we turned out to the polls in record numbers

in order to get an agenda through. We turned out in the polls in record numbers. We had women like Stacey Abrams working their asses off to flip states that hadn't gone Democrat in years. Because we saw problems in this country. We saw things going wrong in this country. And what we were told was that there was people who would fight tooth and nail and to the last cell of the last drop of blood in their body to get those things passed.

And we didn't fucking put them in there to be nice about it. Yeah. If Manchin is the enemy of voting rights. and police reform in America, cast mansion as the enemy. If Kristen Cinema is the enemy of voting rights and police reform in America, cast Kristen Cinema as the enemy. If Tim Scott, a black man from South Carolina, doesn't want to be a part of black Americans feeling safer in cities all over this country.

then Cory Booker and the Democrats look into a camera somewhere and point out who the enemies are. But I can tell you one thing. The carrot is not going to work. They only respect the stick. And to watch them act like we got time to fuck around. To watch them act like we have the luxury of another four, five, six years of this. He's I'm a promise we're going to get it done. I'm dedicated to get it done.

This is all the things that we've done before and this and this and these are people and I don't want to make it acrimonious and I don't want to, I'm not asking for acrimony. I'm asking for truth and I'm asking for people to fight for democracy as if democracy is in peril. I'm asking for you to fucking give a fuck and talk to us like you do. And I don't understand what the Democrats think that they're doing. We know shit's not going good, by the way.

We got eyes. We see how black people are being treated in Texas, how Haitians are being treated. We see this. We can see this with our eyes. We saw how the Afghanistan thing was fucked up. We can see it. We can see this. We're looking around and watching the COVID numbers go crazy.

It's a tough job. It's tough. It's a tough time to be a leader in this country. I get it. we're not asking for anything to be sugar-coded. We're asking to tell us who's making it fucking taste bad. And that's the only way to ratchet up political power. Hey, yo, go get rid of the filibuster.

Pack to court. If all of these things are as important as you say that they are, then let's get through the bullshit and try to get them done. And if you can't, if there are actually reasons why you can't, then you need to tell America what those. reasons are, tell the people who supported you what those reasons are and what they need to do to overcome those things. And I'm just sick of playing this game like it's a softball game.

Actually, I'm not going to diss the softball players like that. That's a tough fucking sport. All the ladies out there that are playing softball, it's a tough sport. Tried to hit a softball one time from the lady that was throwing it fast pitch. She made me look like a fucking idiot. So that's not, no, softball, no. What I'm telling you is it's fucking flat. football is jump rope.

I'm sick of it. I'm done. I'm done with this. So I understand your frustration and I understand the sentiment that you just expressed. Every single thing that you said, I'm listening to you and I'm like, so let's just say Cory Booker had been like, actually, you know, I thought Tim Scott was a friend and he's not. And let me tell you why. Because he's basically calling me a liar. And he's saying that we didn't want to come together on this issue and we wanted to fund the police when actuality that's not the case, but he's using talking points from the Republican Party instead of actually trying to come together and work on this bill.

Let's just say Cory Booker said that. Yes. Nothing would change. Yes, it would. I don't think so. I don't think that all, because I do think he should speak out and I agree with you and watching him get interviewed and watching him say all the politically correct things,

watching him call Tim Scott a friend, watching him say Tim Scott and I have both had issues with the police. We've both dealt with things as one of the few black senators, not just present, but just ever in the Senate. And he's comparing himself constantly to Tim Scott and giving him all this, like, credibility. But at the same time, Tim Scott can't turn around and do that stuff for you. it was infuriating to watch so much that a white man,

Joe Scarbo, was like, I get what you're trying to do. Two white men. Scarborough did it and Chuck Todd did it too. It's like, I get what you're trying to say, but I'm frustrated. So you as a black man, how are you standing up here taking up for him? I get you're trying to be the bigger person. But that's not going to get you where at the end of the day. I understand all that. But even if Cory Booker did speak out,

all it would be is this party saying something and this party saying, something. And that's the frustrating thing. Nothing still would get done other than us being like, thank you, Cory Booker for saying what should be said to Tim Scott and all these Republican centers or these moderates that are out here saying, calling themselves Democrats for the vote, but then voting on the other side and helping the other side. That to me is what's what I guess I disagree with that things would change. But the reason that I'm so frustrated with Senator Booker and what he had to say is because or the Democrats in general is police reform is at a standstill. Who suffers in this?

Not the Republicans. The people who need it the most are the ones who are going to suffer as a lack of the inaction that's come, the lack of an action from the Senate. The people who need the help, the people who need the reason there needs to be reform are the ones who are going to suffer. The constituents who put these Democrats in the Senate, they're the ones who are voting for this. They're the ones who are going to suffer. None of these people who are actually

standing up in front of the microphone are the ones who are technically going to suffer. It's your constituents. And the fact that nothing is being done, the inaction is extremely harmful. That's what I think I find even more frustrating at all of this. All of it. Go ahead.

Oh, go ahead. No, no. No, I was just going to say, and so to sit up there and say that Senator Tim Scott has had issues with the police, he's obviously not moved in the same way than the people who are, actually suffering at the hands of the police, the people who are demanding the police reform. Don't even put that out there because he obviously doesn't care enough to see some sort of

change. He's more concerned with checking off the right talking points for the next election and to get voted back into office than he is about actually helping the people who look like him. That's the point that I'm going to make right now, what you just said. I'll tell you what can change. What you just said is the next election. Okay. So this is what's going to happen now. Something else that Cory Booker did when he was on both of these shows is that he went through a list of things that Biden has gotten done for Black America. He's talked about these things. He says that Biden has done more in his first year for Black Americans than any other president. He gave a list of things, right?

That sounds familiar. He's given a list of things. Let me tell you what the purpose of him doing that is and what the purpose of him going. going to bat and being more taking the gloves off and going to war with Tim Scott is is that there's another election in two years and when there's another election in two years you're going to look at Joe Biden's agenda as a black voting block and they're going to be people that say

hey he promised you police reform he couldn't get it done they're going to say hey he promised you voting rights he couldn't get it done all right he didn't do those things he never wanted to do them the only one your vote. And if there's no counter argument to that, if there's no counter argument to that, if people are not educated on the people who are being obstructionist in government, then they're going to buy that. And you're going to see a listless voter group who's a little bit more apathetic because there's no big, bad demon like Donald Trump to put us up against. You're going to see a listless voter group drag out to the polls. On top of that, you have voter suppression

laws that are going on in 17 states that's going to make it harder to vote anyway. If people don't, if people don't think they're in a war, then they won't go out and act like soldiers, right? And we are in a war. We're in a political war for the climate and the future of America. And people need to understand that while you don't have to have acrimony for people on the other side, you do have to tell the truth to people about why. things aren't getting done.

I can tell you that that is a better strategy than being polite. If you tell people right now, listen, I want to get police reform passed. Tim Scott, a black man in South Carolina, can't get it done. Does it want to get it done? Then when it's time for re-election and you're looking at Tim Scott, maybe black people in South Carolina, maybe people who care about police reform in South Carolina will come out in droves to put Tim Scott where he needs to be, which is in the private sector. Okay.

To me, all of these things have to do with the way we're going to attack elections in 2022 and 2024, the way people are going to look at the landscape and the climate of their country and playing nice with a bunch of people who are determined to take away voting rights, who are determined to tell women what they have to do with their bodies, and who were determined to let the police walk around American cities, militarized, marauding, and with no standard to be held to at all, is a losing battle. It's a losing battle. I need them to care as much as the kids that are marching down the street in Washington, D.C. care.

And I can tell you right now, they don't give a fuck about Tim Scott. So I'm telling you is the reason why it'll make a difference is because people right now need somebody to ring the fire alarm. Like ring the fire alarm. Hey, look, look what's happening. Look what's happening. Look, voting rights. The way that what they're doing to women. Like all of these things, police reform.

Like, wait, like ring the fire alarm. And they're acting like it's business as usual. And I'm fucking sick of it. You just said it about it's the. that you have to make people care. And I think it's, yes, you can point out the bad apples and you can point out who's doing things, who's being hypocritical, you can point out who's spineless, and you can point out who doesn't care. But at the end of the day, when it comes to the voters, you have to actually make them care about these issues. And my fear is, we live in a time

where people don't go out and do the research. Well, people will take a headline, take a talking point. Take what Tim Scott is saying and saying, oh, the Democrats just want to defund the police. We've seen it already. And they hold on to the words defund the police and they think that we want to break up police departments and that's not what that means. And they don't listen to Cory Booker saying, actually the fraternal order of police, one of the biggest police unions, is supporting the Democrats bill. Why would the police union support a bill that defunds the police? They were putting, that's not even, they were putting more funding for the police in the fucking bill, which I had a major fucking problem with.

But my point is, is the other side is sticking to the same point. They just wanted to fund the police. That's actually a lie. That's actually not even true. And so I guess I just, the reason I say, back to the whole thing from the beginning, and when you were giving your spill and I said,

I don't think that it'll change people, even if Cory Booker had called people out is because at the end of the day, you got to make people care. And I don't even know of pointing out the people who are problems, who are in, stop. this from moving forward who are stopping police reform, the reason that it's dying,

which is what the Republicans want to happen anyway, so they're succeeding, they're getting exactly what they want. I think it doesn't matter if you're pointing that out if you can't get the people who are voting to even care. You could be able to if they knew, to me, you would be able to if they knew who was responsible for it.

Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Kristen Cinema of Arizona. These are the people who are going back and forth with the Democrats on the Voting Rights Act. These are the people that are going back of the Democrats back and forth with their own party on infrastructure. They're carrying the water for the Republicans.

Tim Scott is a black man that was the face of the Republican part of this bill, this police reform bill, and he doesn't have to be. the nuts to get it done. George Ford right now died for nothing. Nancy Pelosi got up there after that man died and said he was a hero and that he died for something.

He said he was a hero and he died for something. Other times people die for stuff, people went to war for it. Christmas Addix died, black man, first person to die in a revolutionary war. People got it popping after that. Right. Like all of these things, they have to mean something. You can't just say that right now we're living in the world. We're talking about change the, George changed the world.

it hasn't been changed. It's the same. Yeah, no, it's, it's the same. It's the same. And I, I didn't hear the part where Senator Cory Booker was naming the things that Biden has done so far since he took office. But I wonder if one of the things he said, and if he didn't, he should, is what is President Joe Biden and the White House and his administration going to do now? The fact that the police report, this is something you said you were dedicated to. This is one of the things you ran on. What are you going to do now in your constitutionally mandated power to bring about some type of meaningful police reform in some form of an executive order or whatever it may be? I need to hear what your response is. I need to hear what you have to say. And then I want to see what you're going to do, what you can do within the

limits of your power. I need to see it. Because this is one of the reasons that people voted for you, that they were hopeful that you and your administration could bring about some type of change. That there would be something that could be done. We need to see it. Yeah. So I am bringing up the transcript right now of Corey Booker on Meet the Press because I want to make sure that I point out right here what Cory Booker says that Joe Biden has done for black people so that everybody knows that it's not a zero-some game here. that there is a that there is that the Cory Booker actually feels like there's at least enough that Joe Biden has done for him to continue to not like to continue to support him full-throatedly and

not like jump on his back hold on let me find it real quick he says I'm going to read it from from the trans he says what is he done for the black community he goes what are you talking about we've cut poverty child we've cut black poverty child poverty 50 percent we are the first President stepping up on black farmers, maternal mortality, getting lead pipes out of the ground. Biden has racked up one of the greatest agendas of accomplishments. It's unfortunate people don't see that. And if we do a $3 trillion bill, a $2.5 trillion bill, I'm going to push for it to be as big as possible. He's talking about the infrastructure bill right there.

But it will be an historic investment in America. And then he goes into unlike President Trump who racked up all of this stuff right there. So what he's talking about right now when he talks about lead pipes, getting lead pipes out of the ground, that's something that disproportionately affects black and brown neighborhoods where people live in low-income housing, things like that, things of that nature. Black poverty, child poverty, 50%. I will look into that. I have no clue what it is that he's talking about or what they've passed to cut that. But I doubt that Senator Booker is lying. So I don't want to act like, of course he's not lying. I don't want to act like there has been no movement on anything. What I'm trying to tell you is that the things that they campaigned on, the things that are threatening, there's obviously, child poverty, I would never downplay that.

The things that they campaign on, the things that they say are the most pressing issues of our time, police reform, voting rights, the infrastructure bill. We're getting a lot of, I feel like we're getting a lot of playing nice and a lot of politics and a lot of back patent and stuff like that. He talks about how deep of her friend that he is with Tim Scott, how much grace he has for him. I don't give a fuck about that. I couldn't care less about that. All right, let's take a break. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business.

And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

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doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Oh, before we leave, before we get off of this, I want to talk about something real quick. Do you know that there's a conspiracy theory floating around that Sunny and Anna Navarro actually were given false positive tests so they wouldn't be on set for the interview that happened with Connolly Harris because they were going to be too hard on her? Whoa. So the ladies on the view, the ladies on the view tested positive for COVID. I was very, very afraid. Sonny's a cool person and a pal.

And I was, I was very, very afraid in time people get COVID, right? And so, but what I've heard is that there's at least some thought that they were going to confront vice president by vice president Harris on what's going to. on in Haiti and on some of these other things. And so that all of a sudden now they were hit with false positives. They do not have COVID. They tested negative several times after that. And that there might be some animus going on at the view because they didn't get a chance to be a part of the interview with Vice President Harris.

Yeah. I've also heard the conspiracy theory that they told them that in that way on air to create drama and headlines and you get people talking. So there's a couple of things that are floating on around out there. I would like to believe that that's not true. I can't, I don't see why everybody is everybody is fully aware of what the view is and that it can be a tough place where you have to confront certain things that you've done or the lack thereof. And I just can't imagine that Kamala Harris, Vice President Kamala Harris would agree to come on the show and then they would have to do something like that just so she could get soft questions because joy can ask tough questions as well.

So joy doesn't take it easy. So I just don't necessarily, I mean, I think that that's fun to think about. But I would also think that knowing that Sonny, Austin lost both her in-laws to COVID, that they wouldn't fuck around with her like that. Because that's really messed up. We're all sensitive to it. But not, not every one of us has lost someone and someone close at that. And she eulogized her in-laws. And so it was a big deal. And if you hear Sunny talk about it, she talks about how her husband had to be pulled out of surgery

because they thought he was in close contact with someone who tested positive, her children, her parents or her mom, I'm not sure which one. So I would hope that they wouldn't jump to those kind of extremes just to make Vice President Kamala Harris comfortable to come on a show where that's exactly what the show is about where you get asked tough questions. Don't be in politics.

if you can't handle tough questions about you not doing your damn job. By the way, just to let everybody know, I did not hear that from either of them, but it's certainly something that's floating around. Float around. Float around. No, not want to talk about COVID. That's okay. Jump up, jump up and get down.

Flood around. Float, float. Everybody float. Remember that jump around shit? Yeah, I was thinking you were going to change jump up. Wait, what is it? jump up, jump up and get down. I thought you were going to change that to like float around.

You know, jump up, jump up, float around. You know, I thought you were going to relate it to the whole thing. It's all float. I thought you were going to, you know, keep going with it. When I remix a song, I have several remixes. When I remix a song, it stays consistent. Jump becomes float and then float, it just continues to float. Wherever jump goes, float around.

That's such a good song. I'm so talented with making the songs up. the words jump up jump up i said didn't i say float up what did i say did i say jump up what did i say i can't remember i might i don't remember i'm not i'm not i don't know i don't remember i got confused okay i got you got confused and i got humbled you might have done it right uh speaking of covid the vaccine is going to tear the nba apart two players Andrew Wiggins of the Golden State Warriors and Kyrie Irvin

of the Brooklyn Nets reportedly are considering sitting out home games as an alternative to taking the COVID-19 vaccine. The two cities that they play in, both San Francisco and New York, have policies that say that you can't come in those arenas unless you're vaccinated.

They don't want to get vaccinated. So that means they could not play in the home games with the team. NBA season is 82 games. Home games make up half of a team schedule. That means both Kyrie Irvin and Andrew Wiggins, theoretically, at least right now, seem to be willing to miss 41 games apiece,

half the season as an alternative to getting vaccinated. There was a media day for, or the Brooklyn Nets. I think it was yesterday or maybe earlier today. It might have been earlier today. Well, actually, today is tomorrow. So it was yesterday.

And he wouldn't talk about it. He said it's the vaccination. It's a private matter. He's not going to do it. At the same time, Jonathan Isaacs, from Orlando Magic, remember we talked about him? Oh, we remember him. Yeah.

Jonathan, Jonathan Stand Up, Isaacs. Jonathan Stand Up Isaacs. He didn't take a knee when everything was going on. He said that. he doesn't want to take the vaccine. He watched something from President Trump last year that Cass doubt in his head about the vaccine,

even though that motherfucker is double-vaxed and living his best life, President Trump. So there seems to be a civil war brewing. The players, the players association in the NBA is pushing back against a vaccine mandate that the players, that the NBA mandate the players to be vaccinated. They don't have a vaccine. They don't have, the NBA does not have a vaccine

mandate. They don't, but apparently they, they, the idea has been floated and the players association pushed back against that idea. Right. So here's my thing. Well, one, I have a question. So it's New York State or is it New York City? Whatever it is the cities they're playing. We'll just say the cities. The City's. New York and San Francisco. New York and San Francisco have these, these mandates. Can you practice? Can they even practice? No, they can't come in the fucking arena. So they can't even practice. They can only just go to away games.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that they can't come. I mean, they might be able to practice at the practice facility. I'm not sure. But I know that Kyrie wasn't available. He wasn't at the media event today. He was, he zoomed in. And then he simultaneously live streamed on his Instagram live. He'll be able to go to training camp because that's in San Diego.

Like, we've talked about this in a number of different ways. You know how I feel. I'm for mandates. but since there isn't one, I won't speak to that. I think everybody should have the choice of whether they, if you want to get, I believe in mandates, okay, but if you want to get the vaccine or you don't, that is your personal choice.

And I've said it time and time again, you have to deal with whatever the consequences are based on the rules that are in place, mandate or none, whether it's a city mandate or whether it's mandated by your organization, your place of work, whatever it may be. So I think Kyrie, if it's not NBA mandated and it's city mandated, you're going to get paid for the games that you don't play in. Same with Andrew. But at the same time, if you feel that strongly about it, it is so extremely selfish of you to put that on your team.

They can't play with you. Like, it could be a crucial game. You can't be on the team. He can't travel and play against the warrior. If there are other cities that decide to adopt these same mandates, like in L.A., you can't play here either. We got two teams here. I just, to me, it's very selfish that you would decide to do. If that's your choice not to get a mandate, I mean, not to get a vaccine, then don't play on the team.

Sit the year out. Sit the year out. We seen Kyrie do it before. Yeah. Sit the season out. Yeah. Yeah. two things number one I completely agree with you don't want to get it rules or rules

rules I can't go into 7-11 with my dick out you said I can't I can't do it you can't I can't take my dick out to 7-11 it's not hurting anybody the Vax's COVID hurt people me taking my dick out in the 7-11 is benign I mean some people might not want to see it yeah I might love to see it you know but the reality is that you can't do it they're rules you can't go into a 7-11 with your dick out you can't even go into a 7-11 with your shirt off you got a put a shirt on right so in order to do this thing for these people you got to be vaccinated you don't want to do it that's fine nobody's going to make you but that's the deal you can't walk out on the court you some guys might want to play

barefoot it you can't do it like you can't do it some people might want to play wearing their high school jerseys rather than the jerseys they have on right now right Let me wear my let me wear it. You can't do it. You got to wear a jersey. There are rules. Without rules you can't participate. So that's that to my point, I'm completely okay with Kyrie Irvin.

No, I'm not. I completely understand if Kyrie Irvin doesn't want to take the vaccine. If, if Andrew Wiggis doesn't want to take the vaccine, fine, they can't play. It's not that big of a deal. They'll sit out. It'll be a big deal, whatever. But sit out the whole year. Like don't come in and come out.

Just sit out. It doesn't, it's not even going to matter because they're going to sit out half the time and then they're going to have to sit out in the playoffs. It's going to be a fiasco, a whole show. I will tell you this, though. The NBA Players Association, the players that play in the league, there needs to be some leadership on this issue from them. Isn't Kyrie a part of that? Well, everybody is a part of the players association. No, I mean, as a leadership position.

He might. I'm not sure. what I mean is this. I mean the NBA pecking order, the Players Association, the people, we need to hear people's opinions on this. The vaccine, COVID, all of these things are public health issues. It is cowardly for the biggest names in the NBA, for the biggest people that tell us everything else to do. They tell us which shoes to buy. They tell us which shoes to buy. They tell us which products to listen to. They tell us which politicians they like and they don't like.

They tell us which cars to drive. They tell, hey, do this, do that. Eat here. Eat there. Do this. When it's time to sell us something, they're right there getting a check for telling us what they feel like we need to do. Yeah.

Drink Sprite. Why? Because I get paid to tell you to drink Sprite. Yeah Drive Akia Why? Because I get paid to tell you to drive Akea Eat at McDonald's

Why? Because I get paid to tell you To eat at McDonald's Wear Nikes Why? Because I get paid to tell you To wear Nikes But now all of a sudden When it's not money on the line

It's actually people's health on the line With a hot button issue That takes some nuts to stand up and talk about We're hearing a lot of silence from a lot of people. And if you don't want to take the vaccine, that's fine too. But I think at this point, the public who are going to be going to these arenas and supporting these players and in these spots deserve to know what these guys think of this.

I think hiding behind the privacy thing now is a bunch of bullshit. So let's call him out. C.J. McCollum is the president. Okay. C.J. McCollum is the president. But C.J. McCollum can't move this thing now. C.J. McCollum is the president of the Players Association. He's a big deal.

But the guys I'm talking about or you're LeBron's. Oh, you don't want people. Well, Kyrie's on it too, by the way. That's the biggest name that you got. He's vice president. He's vice president of the guys that I'm talking about. And I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to, I'm not coming at these guys. I respect all of these guys.

What I'm telling you right now is that it's starting to look, everybody's starting to look a little funny in the light because the chips are all in the middle of the table. And look, I took the vaccine. I got vaccinated, but I don't like it when I put on, when I, when I talk about the vaccine on my Instagram, it's uncomfortable. Because when you talk about the vaccine on your Instagram, a lot of my followers kick my ass for saying that I'm vaccinated and I think the vaccine is safe. I get it. I understand. And I'm not like a LeBron or Carmel and Anthony or Dame Liller, any of these guys. I'm not any of those guys. But I'm telling you now that this This is becoming a real issue and it's about public health and saving people's lives.

So I don't know, nigger, say something. I don't know. Tell us at least what you think about it. Well, yes, because you speak out on other issues and this is an issue that is not just impacting the players within the group that you play in. It's also, in fact, impacting the NBA as a whole. So, yeah, you know, if you got players on the outside, former players like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar speaking up, it'd be nice to hear from that leaders who are actually in the league as well because it's not like they're a stranger to speaking out on issues that impact them.

Yeah, yeah. I get it that it's a brotherhood and everybody's together and I love the fact that it's a brotherhood and respect all of these guys. But God damn it, damn it, I'm surly today. Yeah. That's a heavier podcast. It is. Lighten it up.

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So which one are you trying first? find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. The Smith family's so good. He opened up like never before, talked to GQ about some really sensitive topics. He talked about the fact that he wanted to cheat. He said he wanted Hallie Berry. He said he wanted to have an affair. He said he wanted to have an affair with Hallie Barry.

He said that it was. tough after the whole entanglement thing. No shit. I guess it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for him. Yeah, he said the public has a narrative that is impenetrable. Once the public decides something, it's difficult to impossible to dislodge the pictures and ideas and perceptions.

Because the impetus for the red table talk was Alcina's disclosures, A viewer could have walked away thinking that Jada was the only one in engaging in other sexual relationships when that was not Smith delicately explained. In fact, the case. So Will Smith was also getting it in as well. It was midnight and he was going to vacation the next day. And he said for him, they were discussing things that had happened years and years in the past. And he's like, he wasn't sad about it. the look on his face.

He was just fucking exhausted about the entire thing. He also said he was jealous of Tupac. When Pah was still alive, he said he was jealous of Tupac. Did this change your perception of Will Smith in any way? I am not entertained by the Smiths. Interesting. I just, I've spoken how I feel about Jada. There's just something about her that it just doesn't resonate.

with me. So Will Smith coming out and saying these things, basically that they weren't in a monogamous relationship, you're confirming the rumors that have been out there for years surrounding Jada and Will. It's always been rumored that they were swingers or they have these other relationships and now you just told that. If anything that was, it was shocking to me for Will Smith, who does seem to come across as a person who wants everybody to be happy and everybody.

to get along and he really does seem like this straight-laced guy, family man. It was interesting. Maybe that's what I should say. It was interesting to read. I read the GQ article. It was interesting to read about, you know, how he is a people pleaser, what he struggles with, how he's opening up and how he hit his 50s, his fucking 50s, as he's calling it. And he's just being honest about things.

Not that we are even owed that. Let me just put that. We aren't owed anything from the Smiths, but I feel like he's maybe a little bit on the defense. I feel like if the entanglement issue had never come out, we would never be getting this article in GQ from Will Smith. This point, he's a little bit on the defense because people felt sorry for him.

It was a little embarrassing for him that Jada did that, and it came out in that way, and she was so flipping about it. Oh, it was an entanglement. No, let's call it what it was. It wasn't just that. And it was with August Salsina, like of all people. I mean, we'll, no knock to August, but it's like, August, I don't know.

That just wasn't the person. If you had lined up 10 guys, I wouldn't have picked August as the one for you. So I don't know. I found all, I find all this interesting, not shocking, not surprising. I feel like he's speaking out because he's had enough. I don't think he was just exhausted in life. I think he's just exhausted over Jada. She seems exhausting over the whole situation.

Yeah. they don't seem like they're, I don't know, I don't want to judge people's relationship, but just reading the article, they don't seem happy. And he has pretty much admitted that as well, happy together. He's speaking out because he's got a book coming out.

Yeah, oh, that too. Yeah, he's speaking out. He's speaking out because he's got a book coming out. Will by Will Smith. This to me is the, this is the flame. This is the flame you get burned by the flame. Look, you're in, open relationship and boom you're going through the thing and it's fun i get to have sex with

everyone oh and relationship is fun i get to have sex with everyone and then somebody fucks the shit out of your wife some young nigger rm b crooner from new orleans six foot three comes through with a late model penis a newer model and just fucks the shit out of your wife. You guys have had an open relationship for so long. It's been a lot of fun. Okay. You got a nice Chevy Nova 1969 Mustang penis.

And the guy comes in with a 2,020 dagger. And fucks the shit out of your wife. You wake up in the morning. You walk in your kitchen. All you want is some Captain Crunch. And you shake the box. Captain Crunch box is empty.

There's nothing in it. Then you turn around and you look at your table. And it's a 25-year-old man sitting at your table. With a bowl full of Captain Crunch. He's eating it, not with a spoon. he's eating it with one of them big ass ladles that you taste shit with shoving it into his mouth

and then you start to wonder whether or not you're really polyamorous then you start talking about you want to have sex with Hallie Berry well of course you want to have sex with Hallie Berry now you're trying to one up your wife and that's the only way to do it because you never thought

that she will go out and get an August Salsina, you thought that she would get some Courtney B. Vance penis, some Sterling K. Brown penis, some mature dignified type of penis. I need you to wrap up this penis talk so I can get to this Cowboys game. You thought that she would do that, but that's not what she did. She went out and got some 19 to 24 year old R&B penis. That's what I read from this. That's what I got from it.

I, I, you, you really read into that. You that's what I got from it. He didn't think that he was, she was, she was going to get the latest model penis. August Alcena. I'm sorry. Stop, stop, stop, stop putting that, stop making him a 2020 dagger, as you said. That's what he is. No.

That's what he is. He's a late model, New Orleans model penis with a little spice and gumbo. on it. He's a little, he's a little. He's got some. It was the accent that got her. Forget all that. It was the accent.

Hey, baby. It was the accent. Hey, Redbone. Let's come over here, man. Second line over on this dick. Hey, look, if they're happy, I'm happy though.

But I'm telling you, you're playing around, play around. You know, you open a relationship. You might fuck around and let your girl get some late model penis. She might. She might get an upgrade.

You never know. That's when you got to choose your relationship. And look, their relationship is strong. They're still together. They birthed, they birthed Jaden and Willow Smith. They're the greatest amount of time. All right. Before we got out of here, were you up on this whole Kelly Price situation?

Yeah. Yeah. How bizarre. She's okay. She had COVID. Apparently, she nearly died from COVID. Very emotional video she put out. But this goes to show what can happen when the family's not all together.

She had like a, oh wow, that's what you, yeah. No, I'm agreeing with you. I'm like, yeah. Her daughter apparently had $1,000 this. Her husband was somewhere else. Everybody was somebody was with someone else. They were saying she was missing. She was never missing.

She was saying she had COVID. The husband, her husband now was trying to take care of her. Apparently there's some schism in the family and they don't like the husband. But I think the most important thing is that Kelly Price is okay. I was very scared for a second because when they said that she had been in a hospital with COVID, and then they could find her, I was thinking, damn, hopefully she wasn't in somewhere having a medical emergency. She couldn't get to a phone or something like that. Right.

And then just on the hills of us talking about missing white women syndrome and then the story comes out, it was like, oh, my gosh, Kelly Price. Yeah, you know, when she did come out and she says she doesn't really talk to her family that often and there's some drama in the family. And I was just like, okay, you know, she seemed very embarrassed at the. the situation had gotten out of hand. So I'm just thankful that she's okay. That was shocking. When I first saw it, I was like, oh my gosh, Kelly Price. You know, she had COVID and she's missing.

So I'm just glad everything is okay. Yes, I was up to date on it. You was up to date on it? You scared for her. What's your favorite Kelly Price song? I like friend of mine. That's a good one. That's a good one.

I like the one where it's her. And Whitney. Oh. No, damn. I can't say that one. Damn. because R. Kelly's on that. Fuck.

Damn. I can't say that one, man. R. Kelly's gone. Arkelly's out of here. No van's very serious question of the week. I've been forcing it lately, and I've got to come up with a good one for you. I'm tinkering around with some ideas here.

All right. No van's very serious questions in the week. We gave them a supersized podcast today anyway. Hey, guys, let's be careful. These young niggas is out here. And they are ready to fuck. your wives. Oh my gosh.

I'm just letting you know. All right. Keep you thinking caps on. Do not stop learning. I am Van Lytton Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Hold on. Before we go,

how come the Cowboys get to get all the primetime shit? The Cowboys are on Monday night football. It's always Cowboys, Cowboys, Cowboys, Cowboys, Cowboys. The Saints won, Rachel. The Saints won. y'all played somebody sorry though you'll play the Patriots we paid the Patriots baby

the Saints won who cares about the Cowboys I'm sick apparently every we've had a Thursday night game and we have now we now have a Monday night game that you are wasting my time it's 20 minutes till kickoff I want to see the game

got the Eagles if I am I fan one of my fans two of my fantasy teams are actually dependent on how this game goes okay who are you playing in fantasy this week I play in Stephen A. Smith Oh, you're going to win. I'm already winning by 46 points.

Of course you are. He doesn't know anything about football. And the one player that he has, that he has is to beat me is Ezekiel Elliott. So I find it funny. It's a Cowboys player that he has to have to beat me to get 46 points. Stephen A. Smith put Ezekiel Elliott on his fantasy team? First round pick was Zeke Elliott. Whoa.

His first pick was Zeke Elliott. Full of shit is Stephen A. Smith, aka Cowboy Steve. Wow. Cowboy Steve. Yeah, yeah. And I'm going to lose in my other league. All right. All right. We out.