Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Reacting to the Derek Chauvin Trial Verdict: Guilty on All Counts

Episode Date: April 20, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to the verdict in the trial of former police officer Derek Chauvin. Chauvin was found guilty on all three counts in the murder of George Floyd. Van and Rachel discuss their immediate reactions, pundits' and politicians' statements about the verdict, and where we go from here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So, this is an emergency episode of higher learning. We are reacting to the verdict in the Derek Chauvin Trial. The verdict, as I'm sure all of you guys have already heard, is guilty, guilty on all counts, guilty on three counts. Rachel, your immediate reactions to the verdict. Well, I'll tell you, I mean, right when we heard that there was a verdict, I was a little taken about. back. I guess I thought that it would be a couple of, like at least another day before we heard back from the jury. At that point, it had been reported that there were no questions asked by the jury. There were a lot of jury instructions in this case, a lot of definitions, a lot of different

elements. And the fact that not one question was asked, I think was very telling. So when I, when I started to think of it in that way, I felt like I knew which way the verdict was going to go. but as we've seen before, you just, you can never be too sure. And so, um, I, it's, it's, it honestly threw me off my day because I had like a bunch of things. I really wasn't expecting this today. But when the verdict came about, you know, obviously it's one of those things where you're always going to remember where you were, what you were doing when you heard the verdict denounced. Um, it was very, it was very quick. There wasn't a lot of explanation straight to the point. Um, you know, guilty on all

three charges. I felt, I felt like I, like I exhaled. I felt a sigh of relief. If you'll remember when we first started talking about at the start of this trial and I like was emotional saying I can't see the other side of it. If there is not a guilty verdict. So a part of me, I breathed a little bit because I thought, I exhaled a little bit because I thought, okay, there's a guilty verdict here. But I still feel uneasy. I still don't feel I exhaled,

but I don't feel relaxed. And I feel like we should all feel that way. Because what we saw, you know, like it's, I heard Keith Ellison, Attorney General for Minnesota say that it's not justice, it's a count. ability. And it's a step. This needs to be a continuation. It needs to continue to be a process. But in no way should we exhale, relax, and think like change is come and this is it.

If anything, this is more motivation to continue to see more things like this done so we can move towards the direction of reform and things can continue to change. So yeah, what was what, what was your take um so i saw a colleague of ours micha peters say that he felt emptiness and i think that's the best way to describe what it is that i feel i don't just feel emptiness i feel a profound sense of emptiness um and the emptiness that i feel with this i think comes from a degree of clarity that I have about situations like this is that I see through the the the prosecuting attorney and the statements that they're making I see through the Al Sharpton press conferences I see through it all and there's nothing in the middle of it I mean there might be well-meaning people

there might be well-intentioned people but we're going to be back here again and it bothers me and this is not in any way to take away from people who feel genuinely relieved and happy to a degree that the verdict went the way it was supposed to go. But I just, I wouldn't want to. I just can't. I keep thinking about George Floyd. Of course. And I keep replaying it in my mind. like over and over and over again.

I'm not having the best day dealing with my depression. It's been tough today. So it really has probably less to do with the trial and more to do with me. But I just keep playing over and over and over again in my mind just like dying for nothing like that. And the reasons why that happens. And if anyone really gives a shit about

the reasons why that happens and continues to happen. Like people keep talking about George Floyd as if he's going to call them back. Like he's dead. And I saw Pelosi talk about, I saw Nancy Pelosi say that George Floyd, thank you, George Floyd for sacrificing your life. I want people to understand, you know, Nancy Pelosi says, thank you, George Fuller for sacrificing your life.

life. Now, millions of people are going to change, millions of things are going to change now because you sacrifice your life. I thank you. Just think about that for a second. Just think about that sentiment. Someone who had their life taken from them forcibly that had their life that had to endure the most terrifying moments that you can imagine as you realize that the person trying to kill you is not going to stop. Then after they're gone and everyone else's pick up the pieces, you thank them, their currency, to make the social change and the move that you want. Like we're people, we're human beings.

So I am so happy that because, look, of the two outcomes, this was the more desirable one. But the minute George took his last breath, we lost. Correct. We did lose. And a life was lost that can never be one. back no matter what the verdicts was going to be. And I do find it gross when people try to, it's almost as if it's romanticized what happened because millions of things are going to change.

Okay, first of all, millions of things are not going to change with one verdict. They're just not. And you know that from the fact that in a few months, we're going to be dealing with a whole other case that happened 10 miles down the road with Kim Potter. I guess for me, the reason I say that I could exhale, but I don't feel relaxed, is knowing that we, like you said, we will be here again. But a part of me is like, because we can't bring George Floyd back, because we can't bring George Floyd back, because a life was lost, it's, you're never going to get those things back, but how do we keep the fight to try to for these things to continue to not happen?

Because what you have to at least acknowledge is what happened with Chauvin. I don't know if it's ever happened in Minnesota. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But we don't typically see these officers, one indicted and then two found guilty. No, there was one that they got. He was black. He killed a white lady a couple of years ago. Remember that guy?

So the Australian. I guess so. She was Australian lady. Yeah. Well, they got, yeah. So a white officer killing a black person, a person of color. You don't, you, it is rare. You see if time and time again, we don't even get past the indictment.

We don't get past the grand jury. We got past the grand jury. We got an indictment. We got a conviction. He's going to prison. I have to, I have to, I can't stay. I understand you. I can't stay in a place of focusing.

I'm never going to forget the fact that George Floyd died, but I can't stay there. And I have to say, how can we continue to take down people like a Derek Chauvin, to take down these other bad apples like we talk about? How can we continue to fight for change? I can't stay there. because if I stay there,

like, I, like, I mentally can't handle that. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, it's not, and I'm choosing my words carefully because I'm not trying to say,

oh, the silver lining or, oh, what's positive, because there isn't. That's why it's like, it's not justice that's served here. It's just him being held accountable or him being punished for what he did that was wrong.

Murder. He killed someone. He should be punished. But there's still a corrupt system here. Just because Derek Chauvin was found guilty, does not mean all as well in this country when it comes to policing. Just because an act has been named after him does not mean our problems have been solved.

And the reason I say I can't relax is because I do not want people to get complacent. Don't think that because this happened, it's all good. This is just the beginning. Like you said, it's not the end. And if you think that there's any doubt, now look at Dante right. Yeah. No, you're right. I just

No everything that you said is correct I just I can't feel I know You know It's crazy When I was younger I say that

You know I'm so mad about the Nancy Pelosi thing But And I'm very upset about it But I actually understand Like where she's coming from Because I think when I was younger I would look at issues like this in the same way. They would be rallying cries. There would be things that, things that would

happen and then we would know what we had to fix. But I think maybe it's the times that we live in now or maybe it's me getting a little older. I humanize every single one of them. And if you do that, it gets hard to like move past it. I'm going to be honest with you. I don't want to keep fighting for police reform. I don't want to fight to make people understand what a human being I am. Man, I'm tired. So what do you want to do?

I don't know. Can I ask you this? before today, before we got the announcement of the verdict, did you think you would have a different reaction when this day finally came? Because I did. Yeah, I think I thought that there would be, and I think that's the thing that's bothering me,

I think I thought that there would be some sense of happiness. I completely agree. I had people, I was at extra. So people were running to my office. First, I get the text message, the verdicts, and people are running to come and tell me. And they're like, he's guilty, he's guilty. And I'm just kind of like, well, thank goodness.

You know, like I was hoping that he would be guilty. But then I was kind of like, you said empty. It wasn't that I was empty. It was just like, huh? Like I was indifferent almost. I just was like, well, he should be guilty. I mean, this is the most obvious thing in the, and I guess I thought I would feel more.

I thought I would have more emotion. I thought I would have my hands up in the air. I looked at people in the crowd dancing in the street, barbecuing. People were elated. And then my thought was, and I actually turned to my boss, and I said this, I said, where's the family? Have we heard, have we, like, have we, where's the family? You know what I mean?

Like we're all affected by this, but where, where's George Floyd's family? President Biden called them. They showed it on CNN. I missed it. Yeah. The president of Biden showed them. There was some stuff on CNN about it. No, you're right.

When I was working at TMZ, I think I talked about this. I don't know. Prince passed away. Oh, you know it was on my birthday. Yeah, yeah. Very sad. So when Prince passed away, there's a trick that you can use to get a story out of someone, right?

If you know something already happened, like if I'm calling you up right now and I can call, I can get you to confirm something by acting as if I already know it for sure and just getting your take on it. So I can call you and be like, hey, Rachel, like, we are so happy that you sign with the ringer or whatever, whatever, Or I can call your sister and be like, hey, Rachel just signed with the ringer or Rachel just got the job on extra. And if you're not coordinated with your people, then you'll be like, oh, yeah, we're super proud of her.

And everybody was for when they heard it. And then boom, you confirm our story. We put it up. All right. So that's how they got Princess Death. They did that to somebody tangential to Princess family. Someone that knew somebody else. And, you know, they knew that it was real.

They had already known, but, you know, they just want to confirm it before they put it up. And I remember when that happened, everybody in the office clapped. Like, hey, we got it. They clapped. Everyone clapped. Wow. Thinking, Jesus Christ. And, you know, I wasn't the only person.

Evan said the same thing. But, but it, I remember thinking, Jesus Christ. Wow. Now, they weren't happy that Prince. died, they were happy. Sure. That, you know, they were first on a story. And when I look at this, it's, it's like I'm happy.

I guess that I'm content or relieved is the best word that I can use, that this went the right way, that there's some accountability. Because certainly it would have been debilitating for it to have gone the other way. But this in it of itself. is the perfect example of what it's like to be in our shoes sometimes. There's no right way to feel about this. There's no, excuse me, not right way. There's no good way to feel about this.

There's only the way of least damage. And if anyone is trying to understand what it is to be black, right? Think about trying to get through your life with the least amount of damage cost to you. Like how do you think about that? You think about that. How do you live your life with the least amount of damage cost to you? And having that in your brain all the time. You know, you want to do this, but not too loud.

You want to do that, but not too free. You want to say this, but you don't want to do it too out in the open. Because you're trying to get. back to wherever place you are with the least amount of damage that America is going to do to you. And that happens in your workplace. That happens when you're with the police. That happens when you're walking down the street. It happens in your own neighborhood from other people who look exactly like you.

So this, once again, is us celebrating just... The bare minimum. The bare minimum. What should happen? the least amount of damage. And in it crazy that we were scared that, as you said, the least amount of damage, what could have happened? Like the fact that we had to even entertain that he could have been found, not guilty, because it's such a reality for us. Yeah.

Now, we should say that there's still a sentencing portion of this. And I'm sure we'll have Yoded on Thursday or as Friday to talk to everyone about what happens next. because, I mean, he's looking at a number of years. I heard Stephen A. Smith say on a sports center that if he gets the maximum on everything, that it'll be like 75 years. I don't know if any of those sentences run concurrently or if any of those charges run concurrently. I don't know how that will work. So we'll have Yoden A. Smith said all of that.

I do want to say something about what Stephen A. Smith said, though. Stop leaving out the women in the WNBA. I'm not chastising Stephen A because I've done this to myself as well. when we start talking about all the athletes and all the movements that were started around the killing of George Floyd and around other things that have gone on, stop leaving out the WNBA.

He didn't name them when he was talking about it? I'm not even getting on them because I've done the same thing. I did an interview with Dennis Robin when I'm talking about all of these guys that have done all of this stuff. The women of the WNBA have been front and center on all of this stuff. They've actually put their careers,

in my opinion, lot of them in more jeopardy. What does that say? From the locker room to the boardroom. This came from Renee Montgomery. Rename Montgomery. You know what I mean? So shout out to Renee Montgomery. So we have got to stop erasing the women of the WNBA. Maya Moore, who gave up her entire career, her entire career. Yeah. You know what I mean? So anyway, that just kind of stuck out to me. And that's not to diminish any other things that any other fellows

are doing but... Right. But just let's also recognize others who are doing the same. Yeah. I got you.

Well... Let me tell you, let me say this. I am glad. I mean, I know we're going to talk to Yody about this on the next podcast.

I know that we will talk about it again when the sentencing happens, which I think will be in about five weeks. It'll take. But for now, he is in jail with no bail.

So he'll be sitting there until sentencing and beyond. But I'm happy to not be talking about Derek Chauvin anymore. I do want to say that. Yeah. Well. You know, my heart goes out to George Floyd and his family because for a lot of us, we will move on. You will remember George Floyd.

We will never forget, ever forget. But we will move on with our lives because that is human nature. But for them, that void will always be there. They're going to live with it every single day. So my heart goes out to the family. I hope in some way, some way they find a sense of peace because they'll never feel fulfilled. They'll never feel complete with the loss that they had in George Floyd.

But I do hope that they find a sense of peace, maybe a sense of understanding. I don't know. But I pray that I pray that they find that. I pray that they find it too. I pray that everyone finds it. You know, it is just, we just got to move through this time that we're in. It's just, it's tough sled every single day, you know, my Google is lists and lists longs

and looking for answers and looking for somebody to be able to. fix something. And, because every day we're just assaulted by something. Just every day. And it's like, man, I feel like I've,

I've aged 10 years in the last 10 months. You know, all of this shit was happening as we weren't touching each other or staying away from each other and all of that stuff now. And it's like a dragon. It's like a, yeah.

I mean, like a dragon. No, I don't know what you mean when you say a dragon. Dragons are relentless, you know? Trauma was like a dragon. You ever watch like a medieval show or like a cartoon and you see the big dragon and you go, now how's he going to beat that dragon? I think that all the time. Game of Thrones, they took them dragons out.

Yeah, but see, they had other supernatural dudes on their team. So they had like, because it was like the night king, he could take a spear. Okay. And then throw it to, yeah. So the knight king, they had others. But that's not what I'm talking about. Look, if you got Hercules, then Hercules can kill the hydra. You know, if you can do that.

But if you just like, sir fucking Anthony or whoever, and they, you got a sword, not even Excalibur, you just got a sword that's, some dude made in a blacksmith shop over in Kensington, you know, and you got to kill a dragon. I watch these shows and I'm like, it's just like, how this nigga gonna kill this dragon? You can't kill this dragon. The dragon is a big,

fucking scaly beast and it's old. It's not just that the dragon is big and that it breathes fire, that it's agile, it's old. So it's wise. So it's wise. It's been doing this for a long time. In the movies, they always kill the dragon.

In real life, I'm just not so sure we can. Well, I hope you're wrong. It's all I can say. I pray that I'm wrong as well. I want to be, I've never wanted to be this wrong. And, you know, just maybe I am. Just maybe I am. Okay.

Hopefully you are. You got anything else? No. You know, you're out of here? I'm going to, it's 420. Ooh. Okay. All right.

The day before my birthday. Day before your birthday. Happy early birthday. Thank you. What do you guys? got planned. I fully expect for you to actually tell me tomorrow as well. I'm one of those people who will hold it against you if I don't hear from you on my actual birthday. I'm definitely going to tell you every birthday. And you really don't have an excuse because, you know, me and Kalika

have the same birthday. Have the same birthday. What am I going to do? I'm going to work, which I never work on my birthday. But it's like, it's on a Wednesday. What am I going to do? You know what I'm saying? So we're going to go to dinner tomorrow night. And then Brian has something planned for the weekend. We're going to have a quick getaway. I don't know where we're going. But we're going to hop in the car and go somewhere. He told me where you guys are going.

Oh, did he? Mm-hmm. He told me. Fresno. Stop. You guys, he said he had two places that he was thinking of going. It was between Fresno and Modesto. I just want you to know Brian is in the room.

He goes, I didn't tell him that. He said, Brian said that he always wanted to go up there and be a part of the program at Fresno State. He has no idea where Fresno is. Fresno. No idea. Brian, don't, don't, no, no. Fresno, California is where you're going. But we have to get back because Sunday is the Oscars and I got to work.

Yay, Oscars. Yeah, something to look forward to. Yay. I guess so. If you guys haven't already and you're on your Oscars, Revenge. Make sure you watch two distant strangers. You know what? Don't watch it. No. Watch it.

No. Yes. Don't watch it. How about this? The movie is brilliant. It's amazing. All of that stuff. Don't watch it right now. Watch some cartoons. Watch something funny. Watch something inspirational. Watch the Dalai Lama talk. Watch something like that. You know? We made the movie and the movie is an amazing. testament to how we felt about the times that we're in right now. Give yourself a break. Give yourself a break.

Then watch it. Watch the movie. I say don't give yourself a break. That's the problem. Don't give yourself. Take care of yourself mentally, but watch it. All right. Take a thing caps off, but do not stop learning.

We are out of here. Special emergency podcast. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay. Peace. Bye, guys.