Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Reacting to the Verdict in the Ahmaud Arbery Trial and Trying to Define Justice

Episode Date: February 22, 2022

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay first discuss their childhood churches (2:00) and then react to the guilty verdict in the federal hate crimes trial of Ahmaud Arbery’s killers (17:00). Next, they talk about Juwan Howard’s altercation after Sunday’s Wisconsin-Michigan game and what type of punishment that merited (36:00), before closing with a conversation about how we talk to our parents about sex (1:11:00).   Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Trudy Joseph and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. Is I Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. I lied. I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready.

I wasn't ready. At least I caught that it wasn't recording. As you are brushing off your camera, you get it together. You get it together. You get together. You're in fiery red right now. So are you in your MAGA hat? You always keep a turn backwards.

This is a MAGA hat, by the way. This is like a hat. You're on the, I see you're in the Pepto-Bismol room, so like you're on the, uh, the, you know you've never said that out loud. So is that what you've been calling it this time of your head? Oh, that's, this is Pepto 1. This is the name of this room. Pepto 1.

Because, like, you're on the extra set right now. Rachel's coming in from Extra. Extra, extra, uh, uh. We really do get excited when people do that. Not maybe the uh-uh-uhns after, but we do get excited for the extra extra. The song will be better if you guys incorporated the, uh-uh. So tell me how it should go. So this is how should go.

First of all, you should be the host, right? You should be like the top host of extra, right? You should be the top. And then you should throw to it. You should be like, yo, what up? Rachel Lindsay, kick it. And then you should say kick it. And then after you say kick it, that's what they used to do in the 90s.

I know, you should do it the 90s. You used to do the 90s. Yo, kick it. And they should go, And then that will bring more urban demographic into it. Audience of one. It would just be you watching this for that moment. But you know what?

I'll pitch it. I'll pitch it in the next meeting. That's going to be so funny when you pitch that. That will be hilarious. I'll do it. I'll do it. I think you guys. The main boss is going to be here and I'll do it.

You guys, look, I'm going to be honest with you. I think we should make more inroads to like urbanize. We should put, ooh, on the end of it. That would be dope, man. See, all my ideas are dope. Oh. It's true. How was your weekend?

I worked. I worked this weekend. I think we'll get into one of the things that I did, so I want to hold off on it. But we'll see if we get into that. But I worked, which, you know, I'm never thrilled to work on the weekends, but, you know, it is what it is. But you do it. But I do it because I have to. And it pays the bills.

But Sunday was more of a more chill day. You know what I mean? I'm really trying to, really trying to take advantage of my Sundays and make them mine and really relax and reset for the week. What's your idea of making your Sunday yours? Ooh, this is such a good question. Well, I like to wake up, walk the dogs,

not listen to anything. That's like part of my meditation. Walking the dogs, but I got the AirPods saying so people think I'm listening to something. They don't talk to me. Then I like to watch church online. Watch church online. This is if I have a completely a free day, the Sunday.

This never normally happens. I make breakfast. I like to do a little cleaning. I like to take out my planner and organize my day. I like to watch a movie with Brian. I like to take a bath, light a candle. It's just very much so of like getting things in order for me. I like to organize on Sundays.

I like to meditate. I like to do a little, just like a, it's a reset day for me. Nothing crazy. Nothing crazy. Do you, like, when you watch church on TV, who do you watch? I watch my church from back in Dallas, Concord.

Concord Dallas. Concord Dallas. So you come from a church as big. Streaming, I'm a streaming faith member. That's what they call us when we watch online. So you come from a church that's big enough to have, like, streaming. It's the South. They're on every corner.

And where I grew up in Oakland. Cliff, you had Potter's House, T.D. Jakes, Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship, Tony Evans, Concord. It used to be E.K. Bailey. Now it's Pastor Brian L. Carter. And then you got Ricky Rush. These are, what's Ricky Rush's churches? I can't even think of it. These are huge, thousands and thousands of members' megachurches, probably like all in a five-mile radius. We only have like a couple of those in Baton Rouge. We have, we have, because, you know, We have like a lot less people. So we have international faith assemblies, which was the, shout out to Bryant Clark.

His aunt was the Ian Spooner. Like those are my friends. We talked about Ian. That was their family church. And then we had Bethany World Prayer Center with Pastor Larry Stockstill. You ever heard of Larry Stockstill before? I have not. Larry Stockstill is a big deal in the pastoring.

Stockstill. Stockstill. He's a big deal in pastoring, okay? Because he's part of like a board of American pastors or something. Oh, I see. I see. He's like a big. So there are all these pastors.

There's like a, people don't understand. There's like a pastor's commission or Illuminati that like, that makes decisions. This is true. Do you remember that guy? Yeah, they have conferences. Is this a Southern Baptist church? Yeah. So he's a part of it.

So remember that guy that was in Colorado that, you know, they outed him and he lost his church because he was having a member, he was having an affair with one of his male church members or whatever. Like there's a fantastic documentary about him that was on HBO that I used to watch like years and years ago. Fantastic documentary about actually a two-part documentary about him and his family. like having to pick up and completely start over. Wow. Because the church wasn't just. So the church just shunned them. Kicked them out.

Can't remember the guy's name. It was in Colorado. Like it just kicked them out. Let me find it right now so people can see. Ted Haggard is his name. Ted Haggard. Yeah, Ted Haggard. Yeah, Ted Haggard.

I think it was called the Trials of Ted Haggard was the name of it. And he served as the president of the National Association of Evangelicals. So that, you know, anyway. And so that's when I was watching that, I realized that, you know, these guys get together and then make decisions about church and stuff all over the country. Larry Stocksville was on that. For me personally, Bethany being the biggest church in Bad Rouge, I was scared of Larry Stockstale as a kid. Very scared.

Why? Because they used to do Sting in Baton Rouge with Larry Stocksteele. Yeah, so hold on. In 2006, Haggard made national headlines when a male prostitute and masseuse guy alleged that he had had sex with Haggard. So it wasn't one of his parishioners. It was that he had sought the services of a male prostitute. And it was true? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It was true. Because of this, the church is so open and so Godlike because that's what Jesus would do. Jesus would. Right, right. So Christlike. So Christlike, Jesus would shun you.

and, you know, hit your family up and send you guys to another place and make you live in poverty. They were so accepting and so whatever that they, of course, kicked the guy out and ostracized him. We've talked about this before,

but the church, which you guys don't want to hear it. Anyway, but you guys don't want to, we've talked about this before. The church ostracized you kick you out, put a scarlet letter on you when you do anything that steps out of a line. Remove you from your post, not kick you out.

There's a difference between removing you from your post and kicking you out. Different. We've talked about it. But so anyway, Larry Stockstill used to do this thing in Baton Rouge where he would come on at night and it was called Lifeline. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. And it was like a very short little message that he would deliver. This is before I knew that he was the pastor of the World Prayer Center in Baton Rouge.

Now, I want everyone right now that's watching, if you have your handheld device, look up a picture of Larry Stockstill. look him up. Larry Stocksdale is his name. Okay, now look at him. Look at the image of Larry. Okay. When I used to see Larry at night doing Lifeline, Larry used to scare the shit out of me.

I was a kid and Larry had, it's a little different now, but he had a very angular face. Let me look up young Larry. Look up. Look at him up when he was young. He had a very angular face. face and he would be sitting behind a desk just like saying stuff and I'd be like,

yo, and it only lasted for a second. I'll be up at night watching it. I'll be like, yo, man, this dude is scary. I was afraid of him. Years later, my dad introduced me to him and I remember like feeling scared. Like, I don't know. He does. He looked like it to me.

Look up Larry Stockstill. Bethany WorldPra. I am. He looks scary to me. I've always thought he looks scary. I don't know what it is. Am I wrong? Like, Trudy, look up a picture of Larry Stockstill.

And I'm looking at a young picture, too. Like, I put up Lifeline with Larry Stockstale. And I'm looking at this. You're so rude. I used to be scared at him. He's definitely had some work done. I'm looking at later pictures. He's definitely had some work done.

Yeah. I'm looking at Trudy, do you see him? Look up on your picture of young Larry. His, like, he's squinty eyes are creeping me out. I'm not going to lie. Again, yeah. Yeah. He come on.

I mean, if anything, the name of this book, he teaches my hands to war. And it's got fire raging behind the title. That's scary. Yeah. I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know.

Larry Stockstill, I'm looking at some other things right here. Larry Stockstill recommends the Family Research Council, which used the racial insult of monkey to describe the first African-American president. I didn't realize this. Larry's got some issues here. He did what with Monkey? I don't know. I don't want to talk about it because we should do a whole another podcast on false profits. I'm not saying that Larry Stockton was one of them because there are a lot of

people in Louisiana that Baton Rouge that go to Bethany and they're going to be super mad at me if I say this. I've only been to Bethany one time before. I've only, you know, Bethany. Well, I want to hear what he said about Obama. Apparently he recommended. a church or an organization that called Obama a monkey. So because remember the church routinely accepts racism and bigoted ideas, but what they don't accept is when their parishioners or leadership do something out of the social norms of the church. See, the church is okay with racism.

You're going to churches all over the place in the South. Sure, sure. And you see full churches full of black people and full of churches full of white people, right? talk about God damn the church. Talk about the fact that Joel Olstein didn't even open his church up during the floods for people to come in there

and hang up by, I bet you... And they cried about it. And they cried about it. But I bet you if somebody in the church were gay or trans, he'd have no problem kicking them to the curb or if they had an extra Maryland affair.

I'm just sick of the hypocrisy. What I'm saying, like what I'm saying right now is I want people to do it like Jesus did it. You know how Jesus did it? Jesus did it right. I'm preaching. You're preaching right now.

Have you ever thought of yourself as a preacher, Rachel? Like, what if you had been? You couldn't do it? I used to say I couldn't be a first lady. Even the first lady of the church? So if I couldn't be a first lady, I can't be a preacher. That's not my calling. That's not my purpose.

That'd be so funny if you were the first lady in the church and you were organizing events at the church. Like, who are we having to come? Is it going to be friendly? Hammond? Is it going to be? No. Miss Lindsay says that we're having

Young Jeezy to come to the church on Sunday. Yeah. Yeah. Right after. Could you see it right now? Can I get it? Can I get everybody

go boom, boom, boom. Hey! Hey! Hey, TM 103! We're going up for Jesus. TM 103. Oh. Yeah.

It used to be my favorite when they would turn Christian song, like a rap song into a Christian song. They used to be like, get cronk for Christ. Get cronk for Christ. They were always trying to make us believe that like, it was so fun because at, oh, but also in Baton Rouge, ooh, I'm sorry, I would be remiss. The biggest church in Baton Rouge is actually not Bethany.

The biggest church in Baton Rouge is actually Jimmy Swaggerts. Family Christian Menacee. Huh? Is he still around? Yeah, he's still around. Jimmy Swagger's family Christian memory. Nah, I'm gonna lie, I like Jimmy. Me and Jimmy used to hang out together.

You were entertained by him. No. Jimmy used to be in Ketcham Fitness Center working out, and I would see Jimmy. And me and Jimmy would talk as a young man. I like Jimmy. Jimmy was different. Jimmy had some swag with him. You know what I mean?

Jimmy would carry that. You know that little thing that the preachers dry there, like the little handker shift that they dried themselves off with. Jimmy always had one of those. Jimmy would be working out and it would be like he would be catching the Holy Ghost at the same time patting himself with the thing. But that's by far the biggest church in Baton Rouge is Jimmy Swaggers

Ministries. But we would go there everyone now and again because we didn't go there a lot. But there was one point where he was such a big deal that it was almost like a cult. You had to go, right? Is this when he was involved with the prostitution or not? This is involved. This is so he was the biggest in the country

pre-prostitution and then he fell off. Okay, I'll put it to you like this. Because he was around the same time with the bakers. It's all around the same time. Everybody was falling. Because it was just one after another after another. Because they're all people.

Yeah. They're all people. And they'd fuck up. Okay. So after he fell, it was kind of like he never got back to the heights. You know what I mean? But he was still the man in Baton Rouge. You know?

He was a hometown hero. Yeah, yeah. And we went there one time and they had these guys that came down. I don't know if you know these guys. They were called the power team. And they were this group of... That sounds so familiar. Wait, who's the power team?

The power team were this group of like really strong and buff guys. Yes. Remembered them? Oh my gosh. I knew what I was like, gosh, it sounds so surreal. I remember these really strong and buff guys. And they would come do. feats of strength and say...

Black t-shirts? Black T-shirts. Like the light, the wind across the team. And they were, these really strong and buff guys, and they would come to the church and they would do feats of strength and they would say that they were like, like, powered by God. Like they were like Samson. Find them.

Yeah. Find them. We need to do a whole documentary on it. On the power team. I so remember that. They used to come to chapel. They used to came to chapel with us. Uh-huh

And they were coming They would bend stuff And then they were like Put a towel over Bight it Put a towel bike And it And it was

I would be like I remember One day we went to church And we went to Jimmy Swagger Because they were always doing stuff They'd have a Christian rapper Come

And they were somebody else would come They were always doing stuff To make sure Church is fun And church is cool And we get that one time And then Power Team came out

I remember my father's like What's this? What is this? What is this? And I was like, now the power team is going to minister to you through the strength of Christ. My dad was like, what they're talking about? What are they about to do? And they started breaking stuff and bending stuff.

And my dad was like, you know what? Get your, get the hell out of here. These big meathead white boys up here bending stuff talking about is Jesus. It's steroids. That's what it is. And then my dad was so offended by the power team. he was like so he thought that the power team was like he thought it was conning people you know he didn't think it was like he didn't he didn't dig the power team but anyway those are my

church numbers so i so forgot about the power team thank you so much for bringing that memory back look up the power team look at the power team okay let's take a break oh my gosh did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy,

and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and to prevent. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information.

The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predict. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 boat. Bonus. Offered by Fandual prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Okay. So the big deal of the day today is there's been a verdict reached.

And the federal hate crimes trial of a Marbury. A jury has found three white men who killed Omar Arbery guilty on a federal hate crime charge. Three men were each charged federal court interference with rights that is a hate crime and attempted kidnapping. Travis McMichael and Gregory McMichael also face a weapons charge. These guys are already serving life sentences in prison before being, after being convicted, state court last year. Tomorrow is the two-year memorial of Amard Arbery. murder. Also, while we were gone, Dante Wright's mom has criticized Kim Porter for her expression in the mugshot that was taken of her following the killing of Dante Wright. She's like,

how do you show remorse? Of course, we now know that Dante Wright's killer, Kim Porter, has received, what was it, two years in jail? Yes. For killing him. And she was apparently smiling in her mugshot and Dante Wright's mother is none too pleased about that. Let me tell you why I'm falling over myself

in introducing these two deals because they're very big deals. The Dante Wright situation was very saddening. The verdict for the Dante Wright situation. These two things together are both sad. I guess the question I'll ask to you, Rachel, is

justice was done in the other, and one, justice at least, it was not done in the other to me. I think to two years for taking a human life, like I could get more to two years for doing something to Bozeman, which would never happen. Two years for taking a human life is disgusting to me. Both verdicts come in. Sentencing in one, actually a verdict of one, verdicts in the other one. What do you make of it. So this is what I keep thinking about when it comes to Amad. Two years since his murder.

Those three individuals have been convicted on a state level, going to jail for life. Now they have been convicted in federal court for a hate crime, which we know that hate crime did not exist prior to Ahmad in Georgia in the state of Georgia. and it was enacted after what happened to him. What I keep thinking about is look what had to happen to get what we call justice in Amad's case. Ahmad died almost two years ago, murdered almost two years ago. We didn't learn about it until almost three months later.

And that was because his family, his friends, the support were pushing that something more happened. And even then, it didn't get national attention. It didn't get that these people weren't arrested and put on trial until the video came out. Look what had to happen for justice to be served in regards to Amman. You got to have video evidence of him being hunted down. Nobody believed what his family and friends were saying. These people were out free after hunting and killing him in broad daylight.

So it's what should happen, but it doesn't, you know, we talked about this before. When I think of what had to happen for them to be punished in this way, it's devastating. It's devastating because if anything else had happened, if there was no video, we wouldn't be talking about these sentences in the same way. They wouldn't have been sentenced. And we know that for a fact because they were out for free for months before the video came out. then I look at Dante, right, what happened with him, and knowing that for what Kim Potter was convicted of, she faced up to 25 years. The prosecution recommended seven years. The judge gave her two years. The judge said that this was a tragic accident. It's hard for me to swallow a judge saying accident when somebody is dead. Somebody lost their life in which, in which,

what shouldn't have happened to somebody who is a trained professional and is supposed to know the difference between a taser and a gun. And they shot and killed Dante. And they're going to jail for two years because it was an accident. I can't get past that. I can't get past this judge's ruling. Judge even went as far in her sentencing to compare it to George Floyd. You can't compare the two. You can't base your sentencing off what happened to George Floyd with what happened to Dante Wright. Two men are dead. at the hands of the police, Kim Potter should have known better.

She absolutely should have known better. She'd been on the force for, I believe, 26 years. We've seen what a taser looks like. We've seen what a gun looks like. I'm sure she's been in a high intense situation before and has had to decipher between the taser and a gun, and this is where we are. She killed him.

Two years. Something that the father said stuck with me. father said, told reporters that it felt like the justice system was tied up in Potter's feelings that it was so tied up in Potter's feelings that it forgot that his son was killed. That resonates deeply with me because that's exactly, I, like, I'll never understand what it is to lose someone in that way, or at least I don't at the moment, but I can't get past him saying that the system is so tied up in how Kim Potter feels, who's still alive, who is a professional trained police officer who killed him in the line of duty and we're more caught up in

what happened to her than we are at the fact that a life was lost. I can't get past that. It's all just sad. It's all sad. Okay. So I've got something to read off right here. Justice. Definitions of justice.

Okay. Is your dad technically a justice? Is he? Mm-hmm. Because it says right here, the personification of justice, usually a blindfolded woman, that's not him, but a judge or a magistrate, in particular a judge of the Supreme Court of a country or state. When he's not in the Supreme Court, but he's like a U.S. He's a justice of some sort. Okay, so these are the first two definitions of justice that I see. Just behavior or treatment, a concern for justice, peace, and genuine respect for people.

Number two, the quality of being fair and reasonable. Number three, the administration of the law or authority in maintaining these things. Those are the definitions of justice. When we're talking about, so let's take the first one, right? Just behavior or treatment. I'm here to say that we should stop saying justice for these people because there is no justice. Justice is not what we want because there's no such thing as justice in these situations. Just behavior or treatment is out the window once someone's died for no reason.

The quality of being faired reasonable is out the window once somebody's died for no reason. I'm just at my wits in, and I don't really know how to articulate it anymore. I'm just so in my feelings about these things. Obviously, society is made up of a bunch of packs, a bunch of little treaties and codes that we put together to make sure that we can move on. As it says, and Batman begins, as Katie Holmes' character says, just is about harmony.

It's about harmony, right? You want to feel you're living in a harmonious society. I think that's true for white people. I really do. I think for white people, you know, as racial said at Batman begins, justice is about harmony. I think for black people, justice is about picking up the pieces. I think those are two very different feelings. I think justice being a system that is dedicated to making sure that things operate in the proper way and that you,

are protected is different than justice being the last resort to making you feel like you have a place and that you belong somewhere. So when I look at all of these things and I hear us continue to say justice, I hear us continue to say justice for a bond Arbery, you know, justice for Breonna Taylor, justice for these people. What we're asking for is the same thing we're always asking for is to be counted. and that's something different than what actual citizens of the country are asking for. They're not asking to be counted. They're asking to be important. You know what I mean? They're not asking to be seen.

They're asking to be prioritized. And because of that, their lives inherently have more meaning. This case made me think of Latasha Harlins, which is the case that everybody should go back and look at from South Central Los Angeles earlier on in my life, we lived here at Hawthorne. And around the time of the Rodney King trial, you guys may remember this, we may have talked about it on the podcast before.

Latasha Harlins was a girl that had gone in, and she went to a store in South Central Los Angeles, and they were going back and forth over some juice. She snatched the juice away. She was arguing in a tussle over the lady. She turned around and walked out of the convenience store. The store owner took a gun and shot her in the back of the head and killed her as she was leaving.

There was no more threat. Like nobody was reached you for a gun, nothing like that. 15, 16 year old girl walking out of a so she killed it. The judge in that case, zero jail time. Right. The woman got probation. Like zero jail time. Like none.

None. Women got probation. The judge looked at the situation and she said, hey, I see a woman who really regrets what happened in her store. She killed a black person, but she's really sad about it. So the fact that she's really sad about it is so important. Let me make sure to set a precedent here that you can just kill a black person. As long as you're sad about killing a black person, you don't have to go to jail. I mean, I don't mean to drift into the world of hyperbole, but that's how we talk about dogs.

Let's just be for real. Animals. Yes, yes. That's how we talk about animals. We're sad when they get put down, but we realize that sometimes you just have to do it. Right? And I think that, if I'm being real, is the attitude that society has about black people. The attitude is sometimes niggas just die.

What are you going to do? It's just, it happens. It's a part of it. Sometimes niggers die. What are you going to do? Why ruin a perfectly good white life because of the fact that black people do what black people do is just die? How can you glean justice out of that? like what should it even what should we even be asking for at this point like how do we in a real way

I'm not angry at all right now I'm I'm trying to get to some sort of mental clarity on this like so when that clearly seems to be the message right guy died he's dead forever Dante right a trillion years from now he'll still be dead 2,000 billion years from now he'll still be dead right he's gone forever. Two years. She grabbed the wrong gun. Ah, fuck it. You know what I mean?

And look, I want to be, because she has a life too. Don't get me wrong. Kepater has a life too. And it probably was an accident. But to me, situations like this, they lean into the fact or they leave us open for the fact that there'll be more accidents. Because who fucking cares? Absolutely.

So I don't know. I thought, I sat and thought Sunday, because we're recording this on the Tuesday morning, about like what justice means. Like what, I thought, do I actually know the definition of justice? Do I know what justice? It's a very powerful definition. And I personally think that a lot of times when we say it, we think we know what it means, but we really don't. And I think it's time that we either define it in the terms that we mean it or we redefine it. or we redefined it because in none of these cases,

doesn't matter whether or not we've gotten the verdict that we've wanted or whether or not we have not gotten the verdict that we've wanted. We have never gotten justice. The fact that we're into these cases themselves means that justice hasn't happened. Well, I think that we have started to do that, right? We've talked about that on this podcast before. It's not justice. It's about holding them accountable.

and in Amad's case yeah they're held accountable but there's nothing that's going to equate you're never going to bring that life back so there's nothing there's no punishment there's no conviction there's no sentencing that's going to equal

what happened the fact that there's no life here anymore there's nothing like that so at the very least you know you're asking for accountability which it seems to have done that at least in the justice system in regards to Ahmad, but with Dante, you're absolutely not saying that. And so when you say a new term for it, I think we have in that we say, well, it's not justice.

It's about being accountable, right? Because justice has to do with fairness. And it's not fair. It's not fair that somebody's dead, but somebody else is alive. Like, you can't equate the two. It doesn't balance out. And then to go back to something else that you said about, you know, like what does it mean for us or what do we say? What are we asking for? I think that's exactly what Black Lives Matter

stands for. We're just simply asking to matter. That's it. We're not like bare minimum to matter to you all. That's it. That's it. That's why I think that statement is, the name is so powerful. That's all we're asking for. Yeah. Which is ridiculous because we should be asking for a whole lot more or demanding it. So I just want to make sure I give honor to the judge in a little Tasha Harlan's Her name is Joyce Carlin Fahey. It was Joyce Ann Carlin when she was on the bench. She sentenced Sun Jadu, the merchant who shot Latasha Harlins, the back of the head to five years probation,

and $400 of community service, no jail time. Okay? She went on after this. She retired in 1997. You might think, hey, she retired in shame and it followed her around. Nope. she was later elected to the Manhattan Beach, California City Council, and in 2002, she was elected mayor, mayor of Manhattan Beach. Okay, she's retired for the bench. She changed her name at the end. So yeah, she, it, it was, she did serve some, since the, the, the, the, the DA's office didn't like it. They said they issued a,

blanket affidavit policy that disallowed her from judging felony cases involving violent crimes. So she was censured in some sort of way. But I just looked at all of this stuff together. And when these things come out, I'm kind of numb to them. I'm numb because at the end of the day, and this is not solution-based. This is just me emoting on the podcast. At the end of the day, we're talking about dead people who are dead because they're black. And I believe that.

I believe that Dante Wright is white. He's alive. I believe, obviously, if I'm out Arbery's white, he's alive, Breonna Taylor is white, she's probably alive, you know, Amir Locke, all of these guys in all of these situations. Some of them are bad situations, but they are predicated by this just inherent belief that a niggas's life ain't worth shit. And I'm sick of beating around the bush about it, you know?

and we're going to talk about other things. And that's why, like, let's just jump into it now. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. It keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business.

So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors.

So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. you don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Joanne Howard, suspended for the rest of the regular season. He apologized after throwing a punch. I know if you guys saw this. John Howard is the coach, former member of the Fab Five. Talk about early 90s stuff.

Love these guys, Fab Five. Juan Howard was a member of the Fab Five. He was a tough game against Wisconsin, Michigan versus Wisconsin. Apparently there was a timeout called rivalry game, right? It's a timeout called. Is it a rivalry? I would say so. I mean, it's not Michigan, Michigan State, but it's, it's, they're in the same conference.

See, that's my thing. That's the thing. Is any in-conference game a rivalry? No, but I think when it's a big school like that, it is, you've got the state of Michigan, you think big Michigan, big Michigan, big Wisconsin. It's, yeah, it might not be on the same level, but it's a big game. It's a big game. I know.

Come on. I know, but this is my, I think we're, I think we use the term rival. a little too loosely. So who is Texas' rival? No, we don't. Who is Texas's rival? Oh, you. It's the main one.

Oh, is the main rival. But the main one. But listen, it's the main one, right? Like Michigan, Michigan State. That's your main one, right? Texas, Texas A&M used to be our main one because they were in state. But you have big rivalries now. Like, I would argue that in basketball-wise, Texas Tech is now a huge rivalry because we

took their coach, right? So because Chris Beard now is with us, Texas Tech has become a huge rivalry. for Texas, in basketball at least. You guys got one rival. I think it dilutes rivalries when we say that you got like five rivals. It's like 10 other teams. There's like 10, did I name five? There's like 10 other teams in the conference.

Like what I'm not saying everybody. I'm naming like one or two. Stop. You're just arguing for the sake of argument. I'm not arguing. What I'm saying is Michigan, Wisconsin, that's not a rivalry. That's a tough end conference game. All right.

But you're not the only one. People have said this. I've been going back and forth from people. People are like, it's a rivalry game. It's a tough end conference game. That's what it is. It's a tough in-conference game. UNC Duke is a rivalry.

Alabama, Auburn is a rivalry. Michigan, Ohio State is a rivalry. You know what I mean? Those are rivalries. UCLA, USC, that's a rivalry. Are you saying this because there's, like, a long history? That's what makes a rivalry. Okay.

Yeah. So Michigan and Wisconsin have met 64 times. Because they're in the same conference. Okay. But there's a rivalry there. The Wolverines have dominated majority of the series over the years, but the last six games have been, it's been a battle. That is what you call a rivalry.

So let me ask you a question. When you say dominated, what's the, do they have a win-loss tally? Give me the win-loss tally. Let me see if I can find it. See, yeah, give me the win-loss tally. This is such a robbery. Since Michigan measures itself in basketball, I guess what's what Constance is doing,

Wisconsin who I haven't seen them win a national championship since I've been alive. But let's see. what's the overall tally? I don't know. They're bringing in, this is a football article, so I can't. This is football, but it's referring, this is a Bleacher report article referring to them as a rivalry. Don't do it.

By the way, I don't think it's a rivalry. You don't agree? All right, so at the end of the game. Oh, I was about to say, ask Donnie, he went to Michigan. He's not here. The Michigan people, they don't want to lose the Wisconsin, but they don't give a fuck about Wisconsin. I can tell you right now.

I know a lot of me, they don't give a, fucking shit about Wisconsin, man. It's like, that's like saying LSU, Ole Miss is a rivalry. No, we play them and we don't want to lose to O-Piss, but they're not our rivals, you know what I mean? We don't really have a true rival. Our rival would probably be Alabama,

but that's only recently. LSU doesn't have a true rival. Arkansas, maybe, but not where we? Okay. So, in this rivalry game, I acquiesce to Rage. walking off the court

John Howard is stopped by an assistant coach named Guard I don't know what it is Oh no excuse me Assistant coach named Joe Crabenhoft Jesus And he grabbed him After he grabbed him

John Howard put his finger in his face tensions ensued And then I guess John Howard smacked somebody You see this he punched him He mushed him. There's no guess about it. He did. It wasn't a punch, though.

It was more like a mush. No, it was an open hand slap. Open hand slap. So Wisconsin's head basketball coach is Greg Gard, who was in violation of the sportsmanship policy. This all happened because Guard called a timeout late in the game when they were up like the game was out of reach 10 or 15 points or something like that. And I saw this going around and people were like, Jesus Christ,

Joanne Howard should be fired. John Howard should lose his job. Joanne Howard, Joanne Howard, Joanne Howard, and I'm looking at that. I'm thinking to myself, who fucking cares, man?

Like, they got into a scuffle after a fucking basketball game. I could be wrong, but I don't give a fuck. And I think part of it actually has to do with the fact that I have to, as a black man, routinely watch black people

get their asses shot off, get the shit beat out of them get denied goods and services get denied fucking jobs get denied all kinds of shit every day is some new racist shit some violent shit and you want me to be mad

because Joad Howard introduced some white guy to the five digits on his hands I can't care was it wrong? Yeah sure but this motherfucker's gonna live he gonna live the coach is going to

live. Everybody going to make a million dollars. Okay. Join Howard going to make a million dollars. Fucking coach Crabenthoft. Whatever. He going to make a million dollars. Maybe, I don't know, he probably doesn't make that much,

but everybody going to go on and do their thing. I don't fucking care. Okay. I get you not caring because there's bigger things that are happening in this world. However, it's wrong. It's wrong. And you can't just dismiss it like it's not. Okay.

This isn't the same thing. when the black man slapped and beat down the white man for calling him the N-word in that restaurant. Okay? It's not the same thing. It's not that much different. But here's the...

Did he call me something? Or you just still mad him? He grabbed him. And he came back to him. He grabbed him. They started. It's not that much different. Look, man, we got to start smacking people.

I'm not going to lie. I'm not denying his anger. I'm not denying him get upset. The problem is that and the reason that I said it was wrong. I don't think he should lose his job by any means. Do I expect him to be suspended? Of course. And the only reason is, five games. Yes, I know. I expected him to be suspended, but I didn't expect for him to be fired.

That would have been a whole other issue. But the thing is, at the end of the day, Joanne Howard is, he's a leader. And I think the worst part, but I think the worst part that I saw, and we can agree to disagree on this, but the worst part that I saw was it wasn't even that he hit him. It's that his reaction, gave the freedom for his players to get in there and just start throwing hands and they didn't even have a reason to. Like, to me, that's what didn't come across.

Because if I saw my coach fight, you better believe I'm going in there fighting too. Because I have the freedom to do. I'm following the lead. I just didn't like seeing the players then get involved to start fighting each other. And there was no reason necessarily for them to be fighting.

There was no reason for them to be angry. I get where Joanne's anger was coming from, but I can't condone him when he is a head coach, a leader of these young men slapping a man like that. I just can't condone it. You can't condone it.

It's a big deal because it's caught on video, right? I was born in... That matter if it was caught on video or not. Okay, I'm glad you said that. I was born in 1980. When I was born, when I was born, coming up into my basketball life, this guy's name was Bobby Knight.

Everybody talked about what a great coach, what a hard-nosed coach Bobby Knight was. Bobby Knight on December 7th, 19th, He hit Kentucky coach Joe B. Hall in the back of the head. He hit him in the back of the head, and Hall said it publicly humiliated me. Knight said he meant the slap affectionately. All right, but he said maybe some wouldn't like it. He said, if Joe didn't like it, I offer an apology, but I don't apologize for the intent.

During the 1979 Pan American Games in San Juan, Puerto Rico Knight was accused of assaulted a police officer. While the U.S. basketball team. practice, okay? In the 1980s, he threw a chair on the court. All right, that might also, then he actually choked one of his own players out, right? He choked one of his own players out, and it took a long time the fighter guy.

I'm not what about it, although I actually am. What I'm saying is that leave your outrage at the door. Shit happens. I remember a time when I watched John Calapari and your man from Temple, I can't even remember his name now, go at it after a game. I've seen these coaches freak out. I saw go look at it.

I saw Bill Coward nearly throw a punch to a player that was on the side of the, that was a Jacksonville Jaguars player that was running interception back. He almost hit him. I saw a couple of weeks ago, Bruce Ariens smack one of his players in the head, and then when people talked about the fact

that he shouldn't have been touching the players, They said you must have never played football before if you never had a coach take his hand and go up the side of your motherfucking hand like that. I've seen these coaches, these white coaches, the Frank Martin from Kansas State, get in a black player's face, make contact with him. People talk about how hard he's coaching. I've seen all of it, right? And none of it's right.

And it's all wrong. I'm saying in this situation, man, you guys got to relax, okay? It was bad. As far as he's setting a bad example for the young men. you got, this is not the boys and girls club. All right. It's like, this is not the boys and girls club.

Like, what do we? That's not. Okay. Like, this is not the boys and girls club. It's like, it's not that big of a deal. I get what you're coming from.

So, okay. So, okay. So at what age is it not, is it, does it make it okay? It's just not, it just,

listen, it was irresponsible. It was reckless. The man should not lose his job over it. But I definitely think that a, um, I'm not like all outraged or anything, but I definitely think that there has to be,

a consequence for you open hands slapping a person like that. And then inciting, basically it caused everybody else to get in there and start throwing hands. All I'm saying is there's got to be some type of punishment for it. But I'm not outraged. I'm not like, oh my God. Of course you got to punish him. Personally, I laughed when I saw it. I was like, you know, like, wow, this really just happened.

I really didn't laugh. I thought he was, I'm going to be honest with you. He kind of went out like a hole a little bit because he hit him and then he jumped behind his team. So if anything, if he was going to be fine for anything, he was from running from the smoke, this is what they should have did. I think he caught hit. I think he got shocked at what he did.

Like, it was full anger that allowed him to have that reach and hit him. And I think he was like, whoa, that just happened. He should have cleared the way and let him, let him in Jabberholt or whatever the guy's name is get their scrap off. If you want to, if you're trying to get your scrap off, get your scrap off, I've seen coaches getting to it all the time. Sometimes it's whatever. I was so shocked that this was as big of a deal as it was.

Just I get it. You're a leader to young men and stuff like, come on, man. No, it's not even, it's not even that. Jim Beehad from Syracuse killed a dude on the road driving his car. Came back. Everybody was like, oh my God, Jim Beehive, you made the mistake. Guy's fucking dead. Jim Beehom going too fast.

Like Mark Feud, DUIs. You don't think people are going to, you don't think, and when it happens, people are upset. and you don't think that he's going to be okay when he comes back. Ain't nobody going to be talking about that anymore. You let that would have been a Negro coach. Listen. That was driving too fast. You let that have been a nigger.

Having this conversation after the first, the big deal of the day, I get where you're coming from. But I'm separating the two. I'm separating the two. You're bringing a whole other emotion into it. I've lost my patience with you. Yeah. You're like.

You're right. Rachel, you're right. You got me pegged. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Maybe you don't have me pegged. Well, hold on. Nobody's pegged any one. I got you.

It happened. There's a consequence for it. Let's move on. Like, you know, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But I did laugh when I saw the slap. Let me tell you something. Rachel, why white people mess up, it's a good person that's done a bad thing. Do they say that about Urban?

Is he a good person? When black people mess up, Urban been on the, Urban been on the fire in line like five times though. Come on, man. When black people mess up, it's us showing them who we really are. I'm sorry, man. I'm triggered.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm not disagreeing with you about that. But in this case, Joama has to get suspended. Yeah, he has to get suspended. Can't do it. He had to get suspended. If anything,

just for running from the smoke, if anything. Okay. What's the next stop? LeBron James. Did you see what LeBron James said about his son? Yeah. Okay. So LeBron James,

is speaking with the athletics, Jason Lloyd, and he touched on his post-Lakers future. And he gave a blueprint for what that's going to be. And that blueprint has LeBron James Jr. all over. This is what LeBron said. My last year will be played with my son.

Wherever Bronny is at, that's where I'll be. I would do whatever it takes to play with my son for one year. It's not about money at that point. LeBron James Jr. is currently a four-star recruit. He is playing at Sierra Canyon here in southern Los Angeles. He has one more year. He is a nice young

player. He is a nice young player. He can handle it. He can shoot it. He's got a great feel for the game. And he's got a whole another year to develop. So he's not quite right now, what you would call a jump off of the screen, jump off of the page for sure lock NBA lottery pick. but he is certainly with development a player who could be a very nice player in college and maybe have a shot at making the NBA. I have so many thoughts. So that means LeBron's retiring in three years, right?

Because he's got this year, he's got to get through this year, Bronny's senior year, then Brony can't go straight to the league. So whatever he decides to do, play overseas, go to college, that's a year. And then he's got his NBA year. So LeBron is retiring in three years.

That's one thing I took away from it. Okay. Three years, but it'll be 40, 39, 40. Is he setting up, I was going to ask you what kind of player Bronny is, but you answered that question. But is he setting Bronny up for failure? Is this a selfish move? Is he allowing Bronny to have his own legacy, or is he attaching Brony to his? I get you wanting to play with your son, but I also see this as a little problematic.

I'm sure Brony wants to pay his away. Now, if Brony is not good enough to make it into the league, then I understand the motivation behind this. But is Brony going to go to the best team that's for him or just the team that wants LeBron so they'll take Brony? And then after a year, Brony might be out, traded, whatever. I don't know. I like the idea of them playing together, obviously.

But it also, I feel like you're not giving Brony a chance to be his own basketball player. No? You just want to see the play together? Who are me? Oh, you're talking about you asking me? I'm asking. Oh, so I'm looking at the 247.

Shout out Josh Pate and all the people over at 247 sports. I'm looking at the 247 Sports. LeBron James, like I said, is a four-star. He's ranked 34 nationally, fourth in California, and he is the six-ranked combo guard in his class. That's the composite. 24-7 alone, he is ranked number 52. two nationally, the seventh ranked

combo guards, who's top ten in the combo guards, and the sixth ranked player in California, they have him, his final four is Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, and North Carolina. So those are Blue Chip schools. To your point, as far as

as LeBron James Jr. having his own legacy, that's never going to happen. That's out. Sure. He'll always be LeBron's son, but it can be worse, I think, going this way. Um, this is how he's going to start his, he's going to start his entire NBA career under, like, it's one thing to be known as a sudden have the name. But then to be playing with him as well, it's like you're, you're like, you got to cut the cord. I don't know.

So this is, I feel a little bad for brawny. Does he have no say? I don't feel bad for Ronnie at all. I think it's impossible for me to feel bad for Bronny. Well, I get yes in that. In that sense. Yes. It's hard for me to feel bad for Brony.

Bronny was a great kid, by the way. All the bronze kids, great kids. And Bryce Maximus, who's coming behind Brony, is growing and becoming a player in his own right. Is he playing? Yeah, man. Okay. I don't know he played. We don't hear it.

We don't talk about him. I'm obsessive enough because he still, I think he's only in the eighth grade maybe. I'm obsessive enough to like watch all of these videos of these young recruits and all of this stuff. And he is developing at a ridiculously. fast rate too and the heights coming through. I think Bronny's going to have one more growth spurt. I think he's about 6-2, 6.3 right now. I think he caps out 6-4.

I think you can tell that he's probably going to grow a little bit more, maybe even more than that. Maybe he gets to be like 6-5-66. And in that case, I think he would be a lock NBA player. So this has happened before. And I'll give you an example. Ken Griffey Jr.'s rookie year or his first two years, he played with his dad.

King Griffey Sr., they were on the same team. There's a difference, though, is that Junior was much better than senior. Don't get me wrong. Ken Griffey was a good baseball player. He was a good baseball player. Don't get me wrong. He was a very solid baseball player.

King Griffey was a good baseball player. King Griffey Jr. was a much better baseball player. So I don't think that necessarily playing with your father is the deal here. I think the deal is whether or not you can escape your father's shadow. And whether or not he plays on the same team with the Bron. Or whether or not he plays somewhere else, that's going to be the true question. of LeBron James Jr.'s life

is whether or not he can do anything that would break him out of the shadow of his father. And if you wanted to break out of the shadow of his father, playing basketball might not be the best way to do that. It might be being an actor or being a poet or being the chief engineer or being something like that. For example, I box with a guy named Jay Irvin. He's a good boxer.

He's a business manager around time. here in Los Angeles. He is the son of Dr. Jay. You would never know it. Because Jay's life has completely its own frequency and vibe. His life has nothing to do right now. I'm not saying that he didn't have advantages because obviously he did. But his life right now doesn't have anything to do with being the son of Julius

servant. He's not in basketball. He has a word for the 76ers. He manages musical guys, huge ones. Him and Troy Carter. Shout out to those guys. So it has nothing to do with that, right? this is my actual problem with this.

And so I see your problem. I understand that you're concerned about LeBron James Jr. who is probably going to be handed a $2 billion fortune in his life. Like my problem with this is if LeBron James is saying at 40 years old, he is going to play with LeBron James Jr., then that means LeBron James Jr. is probably going to be in the NBA. LeBron is 37 now. If he's 40 or 41, I don't think he'll be able to produce at his current rate,

but barring some sort of catastrophic injury, I think that LeBron James will still be a player that most NBA teams will want on their team with he's 40. Absolutely. If not for just to sell some tickets. I think LeBron at 40 is still going to be able to get you 20, 21, maybe 22 points a game. He's maybe passing the ball a little bit more,

so his assist maybe go up. He's not going to be rebounded at the same way. He won't be the same defender, but he'll be a legitimate star NBA player, if not a top 20 player, for sure. Obviously, he's top five, maybe number one right now, depending on, you know, Joel Bede, you got a lot of Dickleroy Yolich,

you got DeMarter Rosen, you got all kinds of guys out there, Steph Curry, but Kevin Durant's right there, probably the best overall player, but he's healthy. My thing is, LeBron asking for his son being in the league, he's guaranteed his son in the league, that means that a LeBron James is not going to make the NBA. Not a LeBron James. This is what I mean.

So let's look at LeBron James' story. Okay. Right? So not a LeBron James, but a guy like him. Let's look at LeBron James' story. LeBron James is the son of a single mother, didn't have a relationship with his father,

grew up in a place where basketball was the only way that he was going to be able to get, or the easiest way, the most likely way, that he was going to be able to become what he's become. which is a family man, probably going to end up being a multi-billionaire, a cultural icon, and a legend. Basketball was his way out. He didn't have any other outlets. He didn't grow up going to the best private schools in the country, having the best NBA training in the country.

Having the – well, he didn't kind of go to one of the best private schools, but that was because of his basketball ability, right? He didn't grow up being given all of these things. It was because of his basketball ability that he was able to have all of these opportunities. It was because of the fact that he was a seniorly the great player, that he was able to get all of these things and take himself out of this situation. Well, now everybody that makes it to the NBA is like LeBron James, right? You have some guys in the NBA that are Patrick Beverly's, that are Fred Van Fleets, you know,

that are guys that are, uh, Wants, Scott O'Anderson's, you know what I mean? There are guys that make the NBA, find their groove in the NBA, then carve out careers in the NBA, based upon the fact that they're scrappy, that they're intense, that they have extra hustle, and these guys are able to change their lives by getting into the league.

The NBA is a place to where if you're in, somebody else is out. Sure. So if you're in, that means somebody else is out. There are only a certain amount of positions that are in the NBA. And if LeBron James Jr. is good enough, he'll make the league,

and he'll have a little bit of an advantage to making the league. That's just the way things go. But if he's not good enough and he gets forced into the league because his father is in the league, that means a Fred Van Fleet, a Pat Bev, any of these guys, and I'm not the biggest Pat Beb fan, that just stick in the league of Bruce Bowen

that's getting the league, they stick there and they stay, and they make themselves in the good pros, and they don't make it. And the reason why I say I wonder of LeBron James remembers who he is and where he came from is because that won't matter as much to LeBron James Jr. who will have every single opportunity handed to him for the rest of his life as long as he lives,

but it will matter to some guy that might have to bounce around the G League, they might have to go to different leagues overseas, they might have to do all of these things and might not get the same opportunity to get the shine in the NBA and get to where he's going in the NBA because they're going to have to make room

for somebody whose life is already written. Now, LeBron ain't got to do with that. LeBron wants to see his son in the NBA. Your son wants to go to the NBA. LeBron is being a good dad by doing what it is that he's doing. A good dad is saying, hey, you want that? I'm going to bust my ass

in every situation to make sure that you have the opportunity to have what you want. That's what a good dad says. But at the same time, when I see something like that, I wonder, and look, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I wonder, does this mean somebody who needs that to whether it's the NBA or the streets, to whether it's the NBA or working some job

where they don't have the opportunities to move up and change the lives for their families? Does this mean a guy who could really go in there make money for five, ten years it's not going to have that chance. And if that's the case, and it may not be the case. There's a lot of basketball. You can play a little over.

If that's the case, I think this is kind of sad. And if that's the case, I think that LeBron needs to think about maybe what that means. Because we're seeing this all over the place. Duane Wade's kid, Zaire Wade is playing for the Salt Lake

NBA G League team. Duane Wade is an owner. and the Utah, the Utah Jazz, right? The Utah Jazz is G-League team. Is Zaire Way good enough to be playing for the Utah Jazz's G-League team? No, not really. He's not. Really?

No. Not the G-League? I don't know what he's. I don't know how he is. No. Let's be real. Not really. No.

Nah, he's not. Not in any real way. He, he, I. But the reality is, it's guys who need that G-League look. So, sure. Just,

there's a downside to all of this stuff. Yeah. Thing is, we'll never know. We'll never know if Brony booted out somebody who really needed it. We really won't.

Having said that, Bronny's a nice player. I just like the name Bronny. Bronny's a nice player. He's a nice little player, man. And he's getting better. He's getting better. I know some people think

that Brony's all hype. He's not all hype. There is hype. There's a lot of hype. Don't give me wrong. There's a lot of hype. But he could also play. Let's take a break. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis,

which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcumab taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy. and for adults with active psoriatic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections in tuberculosis.

Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Nass Energy. Every ounce of dirt, sweat, and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard-fought place. They're all jammed inside every can of Nass energy, high-performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage,

and pedal to the metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of Nass energy and get after it. All right. Did you see Matt James sexually assault someone during the celebrity game? Stop, stop. I'm not sexually assaulted. You didn't see that? Are we really going to talk about this?

Yes, I saw it. What is it to talk about? He did it. He didn't know he did it. He apologized. She's come out and said he did. She's like, get over it. She said, get over it.

Yeah, I know as well. I'll be honest with you here as a Matt James thing. As a Matt James fan. I'm out of, I never said that. This is the Matt James say, to be honest with you. This is just something that, a wienerific man would do. It's just, it's like, how are you going in this day and age

accidentally touch a titty? He's a titty tapper. Like, he's Matt, Matt the weeny titty tapper James. Titty tippy tapper James. He's a titty tipper. Like, how could you tap a titty in this day? And then the look on her face as she went back. Poor thing.

It made a worse. Poor thing. She didn't sign up for that. That's something that, first of all, that's something that would only have. This is part of being a weenie. I'll be honest with you. Part of being a weenie is low awareness. You know what I'm saying?

Part of being a weenie is a low awareness. It's having a low awareness. So how to keep a tab of the definition, the higher learning definition of a weenie. Somebody write this out. Redditors, put it up. Put definition of a we. Me and Reddit, we, me and Reddit broke up.

Fuck Reddit. But you're not mad at them again. I'm not, the Reddit. You love it. You love it. It's a love hate. He'll be back guys. Don't take it seriously.

No more. Me and Reddit have broken up. That's still, you guys go sign up for the Thought Warriors Reddit, but the Thought Warriors Reddit is just, they just, they hate me. So it's a, it's a, I'm always doing things to be, I'm off the, I'm off the Reddit. I'm anti-thought Warriors Reddit.

Those are my enemies. He can't help. But look, you know, you ever been around somebody and they don't know where they at? Explain. Like, you've been around somebody and they don't know how to act, based upon where they're at. Like, you're in church and you bring your homie with the church,

he goes, bro, shit, Kobe just don'tth on this nigga. You're like, hey, bro, not in front of Moses, man. Right. You know what I'm saying? Put your phone away, bro. Fucking baby Jesus is here. Like, you're making everybody look at us. Or at a funeral, you know, they do something crazy.

And like, we know this, right? They go up there and they say, I went to college with this man and he was hitting all the hoes. They're going to miss him so much. You know, just something like that. That's weiner-rific. That's like weiner-rific behavior,

not knowing where you're at. And in this situation, low situational awareness by Matt James as he, during the celebrity game, by the way, how many points did he have in this celebrity game? How many points do you score? Do you know?

I don't know. I'm bitter because I wanted to play in a celebrity game years ago. And they said no? They told me no. What? What? You reached out?

When I came off the Bachelorette, I was like, I want to play. I wonder what, I don't know what year that was. Whatever it was in 2018. I was like, I want to play in the celebrity game. And they were like, no. You know what's interesting about that? A hard, no. What's interested about that is that like, what, what, well, wait a minute, the celebrity game

airs on, that's on team. and T, right? So it's not the same family. No, not the same family. So if it had been an ESPN thing, or is it on ESPN thing, or is it on ESPN? It's a celebrity game on ESPN or T&T? Okay, so if that's not the... But at the time I wasn't, but at the time I wasn't even working for ESPN, but yes,

it's in the ABC family, yes. Yeah, so it's not the same family. That's fucked up. Did they just say, you asked them and they sent an email back? Let me see who was on the squad. Let me see. No, I didn't PR or somebody did. Hold on. Let me see. Let me see who was on the squad. Let's see who made it in 2018 over Rache.

What were the whip? Stephanie, Stephanie, uh, Dalson. Or is it Dulson? I don't know what that is. Chicago Sky.

Chicago Sky. Chicago Sky. Okay. WMBA. I'm looking at the women. I'm looking at the women. Dasha Polanco. Okay.

Or just a new black. She's bigger than you. Keep going. She's, she's bigger than me. But I play, at least played some basketball. Rachel Demita.

Uh-huh. I don't know who that is. NBA, 2K TV host. Okay. And Candice Parker. I mean, come on.

Wait, those are the women? Those were the women. Wait, that's not fair. They got two WNBA players in there. I know. They used to have WNBA players. I mean, they still do. But what I'm saying,

like, what I'm saying is they could have got you out of there and let you, like, let you play a little bit, let you get your little thing on. And Rachel Nichols and Katie Nolan were the coaches. Rachel Nichols and chaos So this was definitely definitely like

We got to get our shit up And it's kind of like a deal Are you sure The celebrity game Getting on ESPN? Are you sure it's not? Maybe it was Since Rachel Nichols

got to be here And Katie Nolan too Because she was ESPN as well Yep It was on ESPN Yeah it was on ESPN So that tells you They really wasn't fucking with you

Because That's the same family of networks Like you I asked And they said no That's fucked up But look, back to Matt James because you're trying to deflect from this criticism. No, I'm not.

I'm asking you a question about him. Was this weinerific? What was winnific? Did you see, did you see how he went dressed or something? I don't know what event was it. He went like LeBron. He went dressed just as LeBron James did for his draft in what year was that? 2003.

Yeah. Here's the thing. Let me tell you guys. That's what I mean when I say Waney. Okay. And then we can move on from this. Wieny's not a bad, he's not a, Mike James is not a bad guy.

He's a good guy. Right. You can tell he's a good guy, got a good heart. You know, embarrass his dad on TV. Like, you can tell like he's a good guy, got a good heart. But you can't tell me that some of these actions aren't the tales of an Oscar Meyer.

You can't tell me, He looks back. He didn't even look back. He just put his hand out and hit somebody. Because he was embarrassed. No, I'm talking about, look, if you tap a titty, you got to make it, you have to have a public titty mea coper right then.

If you're a titty tap her, the titty, not a mea coper. You have to have a public mea coper right there. You can't let her walk around. That spot on her tit where it was tapped was probably hot because she felt violated for the rest of the game. And like, once you know that that, happens, you have to go, she said it's not that big of a deal. Of course she's not going to make a big deal now.

But that's not what her face said. And her face said, I was like, yo, I didn't tell you to tap, tap, tap, tap it. Gregory Hines, I didn't tell you to do that. I did not give you permission to tap it to tap it, tap it tap it, tap it in. Like, Gregory Hines. I didn't give you permission to do that. He has to come on this podcast and answer. for this. Matt James has to come on this podcast. The TTW, the Titi Tati Tappy Weenie has to come on this podcast and answer. He has to answer for tapping. Ben Varene, Sammy Davis, Jr.

All of these people, a bunch of tapers. What's the guy's name? Savian Glover. He's the savior, Chloe Arnold. All of these people, they're tapers. Tap to tap it to tap. All right, shout out to Trevor Jackson, who's right now starring

an off-Broadway production of the tap dance kid. All right. Trevor Jackson is the tap dance kid. He's the tap dance kid. You can't just tap a titty like an act like made nothing happen. You tap the titty. It's a day and age.

You got to be held accountable, bro. They held your own. They held your own accountable. I think he was mortified. Mortified that happened. It don't seem like it to me. It seemed like to me that he laughed. It's laughed it off. I needed a No-Sap apology. I needed a note's app apology. And I needed him to put his hand and scald in hot water or something like that to let us know that he has absolution.

Like, nothing. I just want you to know that Matt James did apologize for touching her. What do you say? Give me the apology. I want to know what it said. He said, hold on. Oh, wait, maybe he, wait, no, this is something else. Where is it? She said that he apologized. Okay, okay She said I needed him to come out and apologize If nothing, because he didn't try to do it But if nothing more Than for not knowing where he was at,

weeterific. Weeterific behavior. Anyway, Did you see my tweet? Yes, I saw your tweet. Man, like, listen, listen. It's not that we don't acknowledge that these things happen.

Okay? It's not that we don't acknowledge that our mothers performed sexual acts with our fathers. The thing is, is we don't want to talk about it because we don't have to talk about it. It doesn't benefit us anyway. It doesn't do us any favors. We don't need to talk about what our parents did or didn't do sexually. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. And it's one thing, if you want to think that in your head and keep that to yourself, do it. but to subject all of us to that on your social media, and you've said something similar to that before on this podcast, it's just unnecessary and inappropriate. And I don't want to see it. Okay. Don't want to see it.

I think it's important to talk about. Why? I have an answer if you really want to hear it or if you just want to scold me and reprimand me. No, no, no. You have to like I touched it. You have to like I touched it. The key word is important.

I didn't do it. It's important for us to talk about. Nobody. You said it was important. important for us to talk about. I think it's vital that we talk about it. Okay. So our parents, right? This is what happens. This is a difference between youth and age.

When you're young, you want experiences, right? You want experiences. Hey, let's go to South Padre Island. Hey, man, let's go to Galveston. It's Capab Beach Party. Let's go to the Bayou Classic. Let's go to all it is. Hey, hey, hey, I want to go and hang out with my friends in the dorm. we can watch Texas in the city. Hey man, I want to go and play football immorily. You know, when you're

young, you want experiences, right? That's what life is about. Let's do as much stuff. You have all this energy. You have all this exuberance. You have all this time to do these things, right? When you're older, you want control. Because at this point, your life

has fallen into a series of recognizable rhythms. And more than anything, you don't want these rhythms disturbed. On top of that, by the time you've gotten some age on you, you've seen other people in your life that have fallen victim to a lot of the things that you have managed to not fall victim to. Or maybe you have and you've just gotten over them.

You've seen people get popped off on drugs. You've seen people go too crazy with sex. You've seen people go too crazy with spending money. you've seen people go too crazy with all of this stuff. So what you do when you get a little older is you tell your kids, I've seen people go crazy with too many drugs, no drugs, even though you did drugs when you were young. You tell your kids, you say,

I've seen people ruin their lives with sex, no sex, even though you had sex with you were young. All of these things, right? You want to control and you want to protect your kids because they're your kids. And you don't want them to make the same mistakes and have the same experiences that you have even though those mistakes and those experiences are part of life.

So what you then do is act like these things that are done are things that you never did. And while we don't want to talk about that stuff because that stuff seems icky to talk about, the reality is, I believe talking about these things with our parents would help us see them as more 360-degree people. Tell you what I mean. Maybe if you knew that your mom used to love to have sex and maybe still, loves to have sex and that she had a lot of sex, maybe you would view your mother as a 360-degree person and not just a virtue machine that's there to answer all your problems and wipe your tears when you cry. Maybe you look at your mother as somebody that has her own life, her own hopes,

her own dreams, her own aspirations, her own goals. When my father died, I would always say my dad died. Said this on the podcast before, but I would never say that Van Lathen Sr. died, the entire guy of 360-degree individual who exists not just as a part of my life, but outside it. And maybe if I had a better understanding of those experiences that he had had, sexual, the failings, and all of that stuff, I can look at him as more of a guy and not just a god. And it would be easier for me even right now to reconcile not having them around. And when I about the fact that our mothers gave our father's blow jobs and not just because they were married because they liked to do it, I think about what are the things that our mothers and our fathers like to do that we don't know about them? How much do we know about them as people? And holding sex as something that is actually too disgusting to talk to your parents about or too nasty to go into graphic detail with your parents about because you're could never see your parents doing these things is something to me that deifies them in a way

that leads sex itself to be inherently repressed and not express in the way that it should be. I give you an example. Could you imagine Jesus having sex, right? Never talks about that. You can't imagine Jesus having sex. That makes Jesus something more than a man because that's something that people are supposed to want to do. Your mom's not supposed to want to fuck.

She's not supposed to look at your dad and be like, I want that dick, judge. Your mom's not supposed to want to do that because your mom is supposed to be like a god figure. She's not, she's a person. And sex is not something that defiles you. It's something that people do. So when I said that, people think that it was just crazy old van being crazy again. And to degree it was. But at the same time, I'm looking for ways to actually legislate these things inside of society

that we really deal with, that we really need to talk about, and how to get closer in knowing to these people that we claim we are the closest in our lives to. Right now, my mother is 66 years old. She had a birthday not too long ago. She just turned 66. I love you, Mom. You know what I want for my mom?

What I want for my mom is for her to have an orgasm for her birthday. I sent her a bike. I paid for an electric bike. I put an e-bike on her. She can ride around. I hope that my mother rides that e-bike to go get some dick. I hope that she is full and happy and expressive and that everything about her fucking life is being screamed out loud from the mountaintop.

I don't want her to be celibate or repressed or not have any more experiences because my dad isn't here around. I want my mom to come. And I want her to be happy doing it. I want that for her. All life, 360, that's not a part of her life. I want her to feel like she can't talk or share it with me about.

And the reality is this, not just my mother, your mothers, your mothers and your fathers, I want them to express themselves the way they are. I want all your mothers to have amazing orgasm. I want all of your mothers to be able to talk to you about the times in college they just wowed the fuck out. The time that they went to New York and fucked three guys in the same weekend. I want them to talk to you about that in the same way that they talk to you about the fact of what you shouldn't be doing or who you should be worshipping or what else that you should be doing. I want all of these people to be able to get this stuff off their chest.

I think it's important. The last thing I'll say about this because I knew that people would get at me about this is when I say things like this. is when I say things like this in the way that I say them, it's not for you to like them. Seeing what's been going on on the Reddit and people are saying whatever I'm doing, no, I know what's in my mind.

I don't want to be liked on the Reddit. I don't want to be comfortable to people. I want people to think what the fuck is going on in his mind because I had a conversation with my mother and the conversation I had with her it just made me want more for her. And I want more for you. I want more for the people out there

that think that they can't talk about these things. We've got to talk about them. That's it. That's the whole rant. And I need the rant in full. Okay. Great. Clip it, cut it for him.

Because ladies and gentlemen, what you have just witnessed is the art of manipulation. Okay? That's all that I got from that entire thing. That was the most manipulative five to six minutes that I might have ever heard from you. You're not, your mind isn't open to it. I don't see how it's manipulative.

Oh. Oh. Oh, because you're trying to justify this wild tweet that you put out there. You didn't read. Did you see it on Instagram? I said that in the Instagram and the caption. This is really, how are you going to tell me your white man to me? If you said all that in, if you said all that in, if you said all that in the caption, there was no way I was reading that.

I saw it on Twitter. I didn't see it. I saw what you wrote on Instagram. I mean, on Twitter. I didn't need a caption. On the captioned on Instagram, I said all of these things, this is the reason why I tweeted that. Oh, I would have never read that. I would have never read that.

Sure. Let me just look that up real quick. I would never read that. That's a, you just went on a five to six minute ramp. Yeah, because I can't rant on Twitter like that. You don't tell me, hold on, how are you going to tell me what I think? That's how you're going to tell me that I'm manipulating people? How are you going to tell me what I think?

No, you're out of line. That's how I felt listening to that. Because here's the thing, everything that you said, if you want all those things and you feel like you need that particular information, to get a 360 view of your mother, then that is subjective to you. But you can't put that on everybody else and think that they need graphic sexual details of their mother's past, present,

and potential future life in order to get a full view of who they really are. I don't need to hear that. I don't even want to hear all that for my friends. From my best friends, I don't know. That's because you think something's wrong with sex. No, no. I get actually, once again, ladies and gentlemen,

he didn't read my book. because I have an entire chapter about it with you too said that I was given too much information about sex in the book, which I really wasn't. Why would you have a problem with it? Why would you have a problem with it? No, no, you're not listening to me. I have an entire essay based on the Miss Sex,

sexual education. I do think that we should normalize the conversation of, I condemn purity culture, and I talk about normalizing the conversation, normalizing the conversation about sex. However, that doesn't mean necessarily that I need the graphic details to understand certain things

or get to know a person better. You did say graphic details. You literally said graphic. No, I know. But what I'm talking about is, I just need to know, to me, if my mom wants to sit down and talk about all of that stuff, that's fine, it's whatever.

I don't really care about that. Like, once again, I'm not really, that doesn't bother me. I'm not hung up on that, right? And that's fine. It's not that it bothers. I don't even want to hear that for my friends necessarily. I don't want to hear that.

I know. you, you, this is deal, but we're talking about the relationship that we have with the conference. This is good. I understand that. We're talking about the relationship that we have with the country. See, none of that stuff is disgusting to me. It's not, but we have different sensibilities. It's not that it's disgusting to me personally, because I'm not saying that I don't do it.

I'm just saying that I don't necessarily need to hear that to, because your whole purpose of it was you want the whole 360. You want all of it. You want to know this. No? What I said, no. What I said was maybe if. I said maybe if we had the conversation and look I could be wrong but by the way no finish making your point and then finish making your point but you're saying you're saying that I'm trying to manipulate people which is acting as if you know what I really want to do when I don't and that's like actually taking away really I'm be honest with you I resent that because I mean what oh oh I absolutely do because I mean what because I mean what I'm saying like actually mean. mean what I'm saying, and you're saying that I don't in order to justify a tweet. By the way,

I don't have to justify a tweet to anyone. You don't have to justify a tweet to anyone. Also, didn't realize you were taking it that serious. It was a wild tweet. I'm responding to seriously. I'm saying, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, like, no, I'm responding to you in a more of a way like, you're trying to, maybe I'm using the wrong words, maybe manipulate, like, I'm more so being light with it and saying that you put out this tweet. It got a huge reaction. I'm not saying I'm offended by it by any means, because I'm not taking it seriously. I'm just saying we don't need all that type of information. I know. So I don't have a problem with anyone having a problem with the tweet. I really don't.

But what I will, well, I do have a problem with and we'll have a problem with the same way that you had a problem on the podcast when I came on a podcast and made with your voice. What I do have a problem with is being mischaracterized. I don't, I'm not, I didn't put that out there for any reason. And especially if I'm going to come on the podcast and then explain. blame the tweet and then say those things, which I actually really did mean, right? Like, I'm not, like, yeah, I'm not going to be told that I don't mean it. I thought you more so wanted to prove a point because your tweet was, so like, my bad.

I was more so coming at it. Like, he just said that because he was trying to prove him, prove everybody right in what he was saying. Not that you, like, deeply meant it. That's why I was like, he's just trying to manipulate the situation so he can be right in what he tweeted. I didn't realize it ran that deep. I apologize.

It's not about being deep. and we can move on. But it's not even about being deep. It's just about a precedent where I would come on here and bullshit. Like, I don't need to bullshit. Like, I don't need to like, like, seriously. Like, if I...

Well, I don't say you're bullshitting. Well, that's what it means if you're saying that I'm manipulating people. I took it as more playful. Like, you want it. Like, you come on here sometimes. And we both do it. And, like, sometimes you just want to say something

to, like, for the sake of argument or to prove so that I didn't really. realized it was like that deep is what I'm saying. Like I just more so thought you just wanted to prove why you put it up there. Because people were joking like, we didn't need to hear this. We didn't need to. But it's all, you know, I apologize. I didn't realize I wasn't calling you a manipulator.

I just thought you were really just saying. That's okay. I accept your apology. We can move on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No need for a family meeting and to do a whole podcast on it.

We can just move on. So that matter. We just have one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We can just do it right here, right? All right.

Do you do you want, look. You look like you look like you're feeling a way. I think I'm just trying to feel you out is what I'm thinking. I'm not feeling a certain way. I think I'm just a little confused. No, you don't need to feel me out. Like, I did not like that. Okay.

So there's nothing to feel out. Just so weird. Just so we're on the same page. There's nothing to feel like. I didn't appreciate that. Like, and the reality is it's not even that I'm that serious about it. is not even that. It's just that to me,

what I like, what I don't like is the only thing that I have really to really fight a lot of things with is our words, right? And we talk about the stuff. And so for me, just don't take anything that I say to play. When I'm playing, you know that I'm playing.

And I tell you that I'm playing. I'm just joking. I say that all the time. So I'm not going to get on here and talk for X amount of time about something like that that I really feel passionately about. And in that,

I talked about the fact that and I'm sure it's being overblown to this point that part of this has to do with what I derive right now as not being able to have this connection with my mom over this portion of her life, right? And I'm talking about that and I'm being serious. Just don't tell me I'm bullshit and I'll tell you I'm bullshit. Okay, fair enough.

There you go. All right, we do not, I do not have a very serious question of the week. I don't. I think that a lot of questions that are very serious. series were answered this week. Do you have a serious question for me? No. You don't?

No, I don't have one. I never have one usually. All right. Well, that's it. Tell you thin caps off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathen Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. We are out.

Did you know if your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees? Get ahead of summer with custom window treatments like solar roller shades from blinds.com and save up to 45% off during the Memorial Day Early Access Sale. Whether you want to DIY it or have a pro handle everything, we've got you.

Free samples, real design experts, and zero pressure. Just help when you need it. Shop up to 45% off site wide right now during the Early Access Memorial Day sale at Blinds.com. Rules and restrictions apply. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money,

whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings. There's a money side to every story. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at Bloomberg.com.