Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Reactions to the DNC, Allegations Against Trey Songz, and the New Masai Ujiri Footage

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss the speeches from Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, and more from the DNC (4:30); recent allegations against Trey Songz (29:05); the new body-cam footage released from last year's Masai Ujiri courtside incident (59:55), and Jason Whitlock’s recent NBA take on the OutKick (1:08:05); before getting to Mailbag Friday and Unexpected Ally of the Week (1:24:50). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? It is I, Van Lathen. Okay. And it is I, Rachel Lindsay. Yes, it is I. That's a, is that wrong? You can't, you shouldn't say that, it is I.

I'm just like, what have you been watching? Dare I ask. Dare I ask what you've been watching on television to make you talk like that. I'm afraid to have these conversations now, you know, after you've outed me on social media. And then everybody picked up. and ran with it, but it's okay. After Adventure Gate. Adventure Gate.

Adventure Gate. Shout out to all the other people who are like me and have never heard or seen of this movie before. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fanduil predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner.

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For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiara Radio.com. Bill and Ted's actual adventure.

Yeah, I blocked all the people who hit me up in their DMs and agreed with you. That's all right. You can gain a follower in me. Come on over. Yeah. Look, here's the thing. There are certain films that I just, there were such, and we'll put a pin, in it right now. There are certain films that were such a staple of my youth that I don't

understand how it could be popular. It's not just a staple of my youth. It's a very popular movie. It's a cult classic. Think about it. I think Bogus Journey was made 90 or 91 or something like that, maybe a little bit later. I'm well versed in it now. It was 1991. Right. They came back years and years later, nearly 30 years later and released a sequel because that's how much people love Bill S. Preston and Ted Theodore Logan. You know what I mean? So like I don't understand. But look, you've seen it now.

So you're part of our flock. Really, you're part of our flock. I am. I've crossed over. And thank you for welcoming me in after I've been hazed, you know, to get here. But the reason I think I was so taken aback by your response is because the first person to say it to me, like I told you, is my agent who's not black. Right.

Then I asked my husband, who's not black. So I thought this was something that wasn't a part of our culture. So when I asked you and you looked at me like I was a full, the video is so funny because you just drop your head. I mean, just in total despair. And I said, oh, I guess this is something that everybody enjoyed. I thought it wasn't, I thought black people didn't watch it. You thought Bill and Ted was for white people.

Yeah, because everybody I had talked to wasn't black. So I was like, oh, okay, so let me just try Vans because maybe he's on the same page as me. And clearly we weren't. That's okay. I'm going to be honest with you. That's a fair, that's fair to say. I mean, that's fair to say. It's not like there's any black people in Bill and Tade.

It might be like maybe one or two. There are in the new one. And the new one, I'm sure, is probably all multicultural nod. They probably made sure they went up and down checking the boxes. You know what I mean? But, no, it's like there are some movies, especially films for like, from the 80s that transcend like the goonies. I'm sure you've at least heard of the goonies if you haven't seen the goonies.

I have heard of the goonies. You've heard of the goonies, right? The goonies isn't like a black or white movie. Like everybody who in my neighborhood has seen the goonies. Like, you know, it was trying to get the one-eye Willie. Jim Jones, the rapper, calls himself one-eye Willie, this goon-igoo's. You know, it's like the goonies or something like that. It's a coming-of-age movie.

It's one of those. I get them. Yeah, never in the story. Bastion, all of those things like that. Whatever, I'm not even going to get into it. You never fucking saw it. It's fine. Don't make the face.

It's fine. Never in the story is not quite. The never-ended story is not like, it's not like Bill and Ted. Okay, that's fine. I don't like that thing. I don't like that thing he flies on. That has always deterred me from wanting to see it. Wait.

Oh, so you least know about it. Yeah, the dog. The dog that he flies on. It's a dragon. That's a dragon, by the way. It's a different type of dragon. Okay, let's change the subject before I become another post. No, no, no, no, no, I'm saying, no, see, but see, here's a difference.

Here's a difference before we move off of this. It's not that you couldn't pick out the finer points of Bill and Ted is that you had never heard of it. Never heard of it. See, we're never in the story. You look at the dragon, big dog flying thing. And you go, I'm not fucking with that. You're good. You're good. You're like, whatever. You're like, I don't want to watch it. I'm not fucking with it. Now, on to less pressing. subjects like the future of America. The DNC has been going on this whole week.

The DNC has been going on. And by the way, you guys, when I was talking about a former president who we were going to talk about his involvement in the DNC, I was not talking about Barack Obama. I was talking about Bill Clinton. I erroneously thought that by the time we did this podcast that Bill Clinton would have spoken,

but I don't think he had. I have spoken yet. I haven't seen anything about him speaking. He's speaking tonight. Bill Clinton spoke. Oh, did he? I didn't see it. Because it was like for five minutes.

And he didn't really serve a purpose. There wasn't anything he said. That's why you didn't know because nobody's talking about it. If anything, people were disturbed at the irony of having a Bill Clinton talk when you have someone like Trump in the office, when you have a Democratic, the Democrats who have embraced this Me Too movement and are leaning. towards, you know, women empowerment and all of that. And you have Clinton, who's just kind of a jarring representation of not empowering women.

Okay. Well, let's have this discussion then since he did talk before we get into what President old mama said. I apologize to the thought words out there. I did not see that President Clinton had talk. I have not watched every second of the DNC. Is it appropriate, in your opinion, to have had Bill Clinton up there, especially considering the space?

that we're in right now? No. The space that we're in, the president who they're trying to get, we're trying to get out of office, it just didn't add anything other than a conversation of why is he here? He added absolutely nothing.

And Hillary did a fantastic job. So if we needed representation from the Clinton family, we had Hillary, who the purpose of her speech was way more impactful than Bill Clinton. We did not need him. If anything, there was more hypocrisy in the presence of Bill Clinton because of what he represents and what Donald Trump represents. Yeah.

I'm not going to relitigate everything that President Clinton has been through. All of that is out there. There's more than enough for you guys to go back and make your own assessments of what you think President Clinton's attitudes towards women, their usefulness. and how much he values them are. There's more than enough out there. And more than enough, I'd be quite frank with you, discussing allegations against President Clinton. But you guys have decided that on your own.

I used to revere Bill Clinton, as I'm sure that a lot of people did at one particular time. As I've gotten older and as my vision of manhood has rounded out a little bit more, I no longer have that reverence. I appreciate what President Clinton meant at the time that he existed in my life. But I do think it was inappropriate for him to be up there right now.

More for the fact, to the point, that it demonstrates the Democratic Party's inability to move on from relics of their past that are no longer useful. Right. So, listen, people have a lot of affinity for the Clintons, both Bill and Hillary, right? And I'm not saying that either one of them was Darth Vader, although I'm also not going to shoot down the accusations of many women that have made,

you know, lobbed these sort of, use it again, accusations at Bill Clinton, right? But I do know that it's just inappropriate to have that around in this particular moment. And at some point, you have to turn the page on your problematic grandfather. You know, you don't have to stop. remembering him for what he did for you in the moment that you needed him, but you can't continue to bring him to the party. At some point that we have to put the cleanse out to pasture. And that sounds harsh.

Well, you said plural. Both. Oh, her too. There was a purpose in her speech. I understand that there was a purpose in her speech. 2016 was the last hurrah for Secretary Clinton. That was the last hurrah for her.

I supported her then. I understood her then, for whatever reason, America, not just America in terms of the people who didn't realize the monster that they were voting for, but also a significant portion of people inside of her own party, a significant portion of the left, they said no to that.

That's not what they wanted. Now, it's very interesting that they've come back to Joe Biden, and we're all kind of doing the Joe Biden thing now. But even with Joe Biden, you see a more progressive running mate, and you see a different sort of tenor that the candidate is taking because, and we hope that he takes, because of the gradual move left of the party. What I would say about Clinton's both Bill and Hillary, Hillary is an exceptional public servant and has been an exceptional public servant.

Bill Clinton was, in my opinion, a good president, despite his personal peccadillos and everything that he was going through. They've outlived their usefulness to a new generation of left-thinking people. They represent a lot of things now that their records reflect that they either can't reconcile or can't undo. So the point of it is, put some new horses in the stable. If you don't want to have a conversation at length about specifically Hillary or specifically bill, that's fine. I think those conversations with the people that want to have them are fair.

But at the very least, we shouldn't be having to have this conversation because there are enough bright young minds in the party to give them that platform. I agree. 100% with what you're saying. And maybe the whole point of this convention is to pass the torch because there are a lot of rising stars in. the Democratic Party that are featured in this convention. You know, we're going into the last day tonight. And maybe because when I saw John Kerry, I was like, I'm sorry, what and why? Maybe this will be the last time that he does speak.

Maybe it is a passing of the torch. But I felt Hillary was necessary because she did run against Donald Trump. She did win the popular vote, but she lost in the election to him. and I thought it was necessary to hear her talk about what people have said to her. Like, oh, I can't believe, you know, I didn't vote in that election. Oh, I can't believe.

I didn't realize how dangerous Donald Trump was. And she's like, all these shoulda-wood Akudas didn't get him out of office. And it won't get him out of office in this next coming election. You have to actually go out and vote. So that's why I thought there was a lot of importance in her speech because what she went through

and the reason we have him in office, nobody could speak to that but her. And the importance of why you must vote now and why you must vote early. So I love hearing her speak. And you know what? That's a fair point. And I said because she had to speak specifically to the experience of having run against and come up short against this president and what we need to do differently. Yeah, that's actually a fantastic point.

Also, when I say America said no, I have to remember that America didn't say no. Popular. America actually said yes. But the way things are set up, we did not get the president who some of us wanted. So no, I get that. But I'm, I guess my larger point is that, you know, the most important thing about Kamala Harris's nomination to me is that it's a nomination that it's a nomination that represents the future of the party. It's a nomination that represents transition. And we talk about this all the time with America. I don't think that you necessarily, in any particular profession, avenue, whatever,

I don't think you have to pass the baton, but you do have to build onto the baton and let somebody else grab it. So if you want to keep your hand on a baton forever, that's fine. but at least make it longer so that someone else can grab it. But you can't hoard it the entire time. You know what I mean? Yeah, but you got to pass the baton and you got to let it go. I'm sorry, you're taking me to my track and field days.

You know, I ran summer track for years and I was on the relay. I was on four by one. I ran third leg. Some people call that slow leg. I call it the most important leg. Don't go. Don't do me. It's the most important leg.

Okay, okay. Nobody was trying to pass it to you. Because you got to know how to run a curve like that. You got to know how to run a curve because you have to receive it and pass it. Now, listen, if you hold on to the baton for too long, you both fall. So you eventually have to pass it on and let it go and let the other person, watch the other person run off, you know, and win the race. But my thing is this, though, we're not in a race. We're trying to build a society.

And there's no amount of time that, like, that we don't have, we don't have, we don't have, gun to gun. We're not trying to beat the Jamaicans. You know what I mean? We're not trying to... Stop. They are by far the fastest. Look, sidebar real quick. American track and field is dedicated

to nothing else but beating the Jamaicans at this point. This is true. In spreads. In spreads. All the Jamaicans do is this is what Jamaicans are born to do. Make amazing music and dust the hell out of people from Tallahassee,

Boise, Baton Rouge, and Los Angeles. If you born anywhere, Texas, they dust Texas too. That small little island dusts everybody. And it's so, because it's so crazy, because I had homies that ran the U.S. track of field. And they were like, yo, man, there's nothing we can do to beat, like, Usain Bo. I'm like, you guys should be happy to his boat because y'all can't be

power. Oh, not Powell. What's the second guy's name? the other little guy. There was a guy that was like second to Usain Bolt. And he, if it would have been no Usain Volt, he'd have been dusting everybody. He had corn rolls.

I know who you're talking about. I can't think right now. I can't remember. They called him the Beast or something like that. Like, no one could beat him. No one could beat him. Even if Boat, the Jamaicans got out a lot, is my point. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah. So, I mean, what I'm saying is like, we're not necessarily, I think that's part of the- A safa pal. A saffa pal. That's going to bother me. A saffa pal. Shout out to Asa pao because if you're saying bold hadn't been born, dog, you'd be the fastest man of all time.

That must be tough. One guy can beat you. So I'm just saying that we're not in a race. Well, it is a race because you're not racing against each other. You're like you're in your lane racing against other people, right? So the Democrats are racing against the Republicans and whoever else. You know what I mean? That's, it is a race.

Kind of, but I mean, when I say that, I mean more like building. Don't try to take my metaphor away. It was so good. No, but my metaphor started it. I started with the baton and then you came back with these track metaphors. I built on it. I tried to get you to pass it to me. I said stick and you didn't give it to me. You held on.

I'm building a baton. I'm bringing us both in. You feel what I'm saying? No, so no, but there's a fair point that you made about Secretary Clinton. Very fair point. And for that reason, she definitely, definitely. had a place to address the America that has become since she was unable to get into the White House. Now, there was another speaker that I thought did the one thing that I wanted this DNC to do.

One thing that I wanted the DNC to do. And that's O'Berry himself. O'B.H.O.B.H.O. Barack Hussein Obama. I thought his speech was amazing. And I'll tell you why. This is my question. My question for the DNC. was not if you were a dyed in the wool Democrat, right? If you were someone that was taking a step back, trying to make sense of your country right now,

you're not necessarily a hardcore leftist or a hardcore Democrat, but you're just watching it. For whatever reason, you need these people to make their case. Would there be anyone at the DNC, any speaker that would make the case to a semi-undecided voter about why they should vote up and be? down ballot for the Democrats. And of all the people who spoke,

I thought Obama made the best case for that. Did you see anything that would have made you? Yes, but I want to hear why. Because I thought he was amazing. In a way, we've never seen him before. Right. Well, I think that in short of going Baptist preacher, that was the most aggressive I've ever seen him be

about the specific dangers of Donald Trump. What people do a lot of times when they talk about, you know, what's coming from the White House right now is they couch it with saying, hey, identity politics are dangerous. Racism is dangerous. Cronism is dangerous.

All of these things, like eroding the faith and the belief in the American media is dangerous. You know, all of those, the white supremacy is dangerous. You know, they never specifically say, and this guy is the spearhead for these things in the White House. And it was the first time I saw a President Obama specifically on that type of stage tied those things to President Trump and say, this is what we must remove.

This is what we are up against. And I think that also in the speech, he was able to speak to the specific issues, the gripes. And the trepidation of a large swath of Americans, it was a very inclusive speech where he talked about problems that a white worker from middle America might have from what's being taken from him and how that relates to what a black single mother, the problems she might have with America because of what she's never gotten. And I think when you talk about unity and unifying people with the message, it often seems like that's a hokey thing. but remember what we're all trying to get in America is not what, you know, it's not some pie in the sky.

We're trying to get what we're guaranteed. And so when your government is failing to facilitate you to even get the opportunity to have, you know, a full realization of what it means to be a citizen of this country, then your government is failing you. And that's specifically what we have happening right now. And I thought President Obama was able to speak to that. Yeah, it was really nice to see President Obama

in a way we haven't before, and people have been asking to hear from him. You know, throughout President Trump's administration, it's, well, what does Obama think? Why isn't Obama saying anything? Where is Obama? And finally, on a huge platform, in a very, powerful moment, powerful moment, he tells you exactly what it is that he's thinking and why. And I think that's why what he did was so great and why people kept talking about it, which was, which was sad because Kamala also accepted her VP nomination. that night. And people were talking about Obama just as much as they were talking about Kamala. So I don't want to say it outshined it, but it also, it kind of did, but that's how powerful

what he said was. To me, if I was on the fence and maybe this is the lawyer in me, like, if I was on the fence and I'm trying to figure out why I should, I get Trump as a terrible person, but, okay, Democrats, of course, you're going to say something. that's against Trump because you're going to want me to align with your party. I want to hear from people who are not Democrats as to why you jump shit to come over to vote for Joe Biden. I thought those were the most powerful speeches if I was on the fence. Kasich and those guys?

Yeah. Seeing a John Kasich who, for those of you don't know, former governor of Ohio ran against Trump, I believe in 2016. he literally was standing at a fork in the road when he gave his speech. I loved the imagery of it. And he talked about Joe Biden and why Joe Biden was great. And it kind of spoke to those people who may be on the fence. And I thought that that was really powerful because if you are, you're like,

okay, this is a person who has dedicated his entire life to being the Republican Party, or to being a Republican. and for the first time ever, he is going to vote for a Democrat. Why? I want to know why. That was powerful to me. I thought hearing from Sally Yates,

former deputy attorney general, was powerful because she, yes, she came from the Obama administration, but she worked with the Trump administration in the beginning and then was eventually fired when he decided to do the Muslim ban and she would not support it. So it was powerful to hear from her.

And then also someone who, who is so respected and held in high regard in the Republican Party is John McCain. And they played a video that was narrated by Cindy McCain with John McCain's voice talking about how great of a person Joe Biden is. And I just thought to hear from John McCain was a little eerie. It was a little haunting. But it was very powerful that this man who everybody respects as pretty much a good man, believes in Joe Biden and would have supported Joe Biden.

So to me, those three were very powerful. If I was on the fence, I would say, wow, is it normal for us to hear somebody jump parties to support someone else? Obviously, we are in the unknown. We are in a very scary situation. We are in, as I think President Obama said, in his speech, a position where someone is threatening our democracy. So these people are doing something they've never done before. I thought that was powerful. Yeah, you know, you're right.

those are powerful. You know what? I have problems with those, though. I do. Like, I do. I have problems with, I have problems with those people. Because, man, we try to tell y'all.

You know? It's like, I get, I get. Because we try to tell y'all. Yeah, you know, like, no, seriously, though, like. There are a lot of people like that, though. There are. And I just want to tell you right now, if you're somebody that's changed your mind about Donald Trump,

find somebody else to get it off your chest with. I don't want to hear it. I really don't. Well, that I'll agree with you. Yeah, it's not even about spiking the football. It's important for Kasich and the rest of those people that feel like that to get up there because it shows that it's okay to change your mind. And anybody else that might have reservations about doing so shouldn't.

It's a lot of times hard for people to admit that they were wrong about something, right? And I'm one of those people that makes it harder. And the reason why is because, like, I, look, take John McCain, for example. I did not vote for or support John McCain in 08 or in 2000, right? Either one. In 2000, I flirted with it. I'm not going to lie.

In 2000, I flirted with it. I listened to John McCain. And, you know, he had a direct way of speaking to people. But there's a lot of shit in John McCain's record. A lot of times that John McCain, you know, Dr. King's birthday, all kinds of things like that that I couldn't get over. And plus just fiscal policy and stuff like that. I'm not a Republican. I'm a liberal.

but I admire John McCain for a lot of reasons. You know, it's very famous. John McCain is stumping in 2008, and there's a woman in his audience that says that Obama's an Arab and a Muslim. And John McCain snatches the mic away from her and says, now, he's not that. He's a family man.

We have disagreements about all of this stuff. he's a good family man. First of all, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being an Arab or a Muslim. But John McCain could tell that this woman was using this as a pejorative, that she was using those words to be synonymous with radical Islamic terror or something like that, that she was using those words in a pejorative manner. So the reason why he took that back was not even to diss Arabs and Muslims, although maybe he was, but it was more to the point to saying that her characterization,

of Obama as something other than what he was, was wrong. And that that's not the level of discourse that he would allow at least outwardly, at least where his face is going to be attached to it, his campaign to be associated with. And you got to respect that. And you do that in the moment. You don't not do it, then go along with it.

And then three or four years later come back and say, we were wrong about it. See, like, what we need from people, and I'm speaking directly to the Dan Crenshaw's, you know what I mean, all the people of the world, people that seem like that have all of these American ideals up front but are willing to cowtile and bend down to this level of fascism, this level of recklessness, this level of incompetence, this level of cowardice that are willing to do that. What we need them to have is, you know, the moral makeup to in the moment at least say this is bad. for America. Now, I understand it. Maybe in 2016, you voted for your checkbook. Maybe you voted for tax breaks.

Maybe you voted for all of these things, right? But you voted for those things over my humanity. And I have trouble reconciling that. And I have trouble believing that it won't happen the next demagogue that we see, with the next demagogue that we see, because we're going to see more. See, the most destructive thing about Trump is that at least for one election,

his method worked. So after this sizzle kind of fizzles, there will be somebody else that will try that again and see all the bravery. That person might be a Democrat, by the way. That person could easily be a Democrat that tries this same level of divisiveness, this same level of domination,

of subversiveness to so many of our institutions, it might be a Democrat. And what we're going to need is in the moment for people to stand up and be like, no. Whoever that is, whoever it is. And so while, like, I admire those people and what you're saying may be very true that might empower people to change their minds too.

I understand you saying that very. It's hard for me to give props because I'm like, look at this motherfucker here. Didn't we tell you this shit was racist? Didn't we? It's not props. And now it's a goddamn 170,000 dead. Did we tell you the shit was racist?

Told you the shit was racist. You know, it's not props. It's just more of at least you're saying something, right? At least you're not being quiet. Like even a Mitt Romney is speaking out. And I think that you appreciate that. Like, I get it. I'm not giving you a complete pass.

I'm not saying all is forgotten. But thank you for at least recognizing. you were wrong and that you need to do better. And hopefully, and all you can do is hope that people continue that. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiatoradio.com. This episode is brought to you by Sweetgreen. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies.

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New sweetgreen wraps hit different. Order now at order.com. Probably won't, but I'm going to take it right now in the moment because we need to get the man out of office. That's fair. That's fair. What's your favorite Tray songs ballad? What's your favorite Tray songs tune? Is it anticipation?

That album? I don't know. I don't know that song. It's not a song. It's an album. It's an album. It didn't make it. It didn't make it to radio.

It's like it might have your side of the bed on it. That might have been the only song. Okay. It was like a mixtape. This was years ago. Right. Okay. So good.

Like good bedtime music. Like Usher. Usher. Okay. I feel you. Good bedtime music. Some people say bedroom music, but you say bedtime music. Oh, sorry.

I was thinking of the usher song, Bedtime. Forget. But you say, you say, you say. You say bedtime because it's childlike. You're thinking about bedtime. No, I think I was thinking of usher and really thinking of bed time, the song, Rachel, go to bed. It's time to go to bed.

Tuck you in. That's definitely not the type of music it is. Question. My favorite Trey songs, song is called Blind. It's a great song. Is there anything that's happened? It's a good song, really is. Is there anything that's happened in the last couple of things?

of days that would make you uncomfortable listening to your favorite Tray Song song. That's a really good question. And sorry, I was looking it up. It is. It's an anticipation mixtape. You should listen to it. This is a tough one for me to talk about because obviously you're talking about the recent information that has come out in the news. Obviously, there are multiple, I don't know what's true and what's not, but if the allegations that are against him are true, then yeah. I mean, if you really are a Trey Kelly as they were calling you,

then it is going to be tough. It's the thing you do with R. Kelly. Now you're listening to every lyric, every song, and you're like, well, what were you talking about when you said that? And what context did you mean that in? And if the allegations against, and I'll keep saying allegations because we don't know, if they are true against Tray songs, then yeah, I don't want to listen to his music. I don't want to support a man who's about this type of lifestyle. My question to you is, and I don't know how comfortable you are answering this, you're a person who reported on things like this back in it.

I mean, did you never hear anything? So first of all, I'm going to answer that. But first of all, let's get into what we're talking about. So so we know. Because me and Rachel are talking about this because we know about it. We'll make sure you guys know about it. So there's a show called No Jumper that show is hosted by a guy named Adam 22, Adam 22, and No Jumper. Typically have people that are, the interviews get a little wilder.

Okay, that's my first time watching it, so I didn't know that. Right, right. I've done No Jumper before. I know Adam. I've been on No Jumper before. Did you get wild? Nah, we didn't talk about anything. People don't want the wild shit for me.

I think people want to start asking me all kinds of the wild shit and I get on there and they go, man, what do you think about prison reform? And the, you know what I mean? So all and stuff like that. So me, that's what me and Adam talked about. Adam, a good guy. We've had conversations in the past before.

Shout out to No Jump and everything that they're doing. They had on there two ladies. One looked to be Selena Powell, who is a pretty notorious lady. Never had heard of her in. tell this. Who talks about her Daliances, if you will, with different athletes

and rappers and antennas and stuff like that. She's not making, like Selena Pyle doesn't make sort of any excuses for who she is. I'm not going to make any excuses for who she is. She's doing whatever she wants to do.

She's having fun doing it. She's young, whatever. Selina had one of her friends on there. I do not know this young lady's name. Eliza. Liza. Liza is her name. And so during this conversation, Liza said a bunch of wild shit. One thing that she said that at first started going viral is that she said that she met up with a basketball team and had sex with all the members of the basketball team.

No. Oh, she didn't have sex. She had oral sex. She had oral sex with all the members of the basketball team to completion. That's like seven guys. So, you know, whatever. Hey, I'm with it. If that's, you know, everybody.

No, I'm not with it. And we can talk about that. in a second. No, I'm not with that. That's not, no, that's not women empowerment. That's not anything. No, that's not. Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, I'm not with it.

Rachel, if that's what she wants, how can it not be empowering? If it's consensual, I don't. She said she told them to pull up. And so what's the, I'm asking? She did say she told them to pull up. She said that they came into the room while she was being intimate. Yes, she said she was being intimate with somebody else from the team, somebody who worked for the team.

She said she had started knocking on the door. Yes, but she said they started knocking on the door. They knew she was in there. And then they came in and she was like, as she kept saying, it's lit. It was lit. It was lit. You know, like they had like five words that they kept saying over and over again. It was lit was one of them.

Right. So, well, before we even get to Trey. So let's talk about that. Yeah, this is before. So she's saying that it's lit. So if it's lit, that means she never once said in that situation that anybody forced her into doing anything. I'm not saying that. So if she wants to do that, what's not empowering about it?

That's not empowering because you decide to have seven penises in your mouth and swallow every single one of them. You know what empowering is? You know what empowering is? Meg the Stallion and Cardi B rapping in a song about a fantasy, talking about it, making money off of it. No, making money off of it and not talking about specific actions what they do. They're talking about a fantasy that may or may or may. may not be true, right? And they're making money. That's empowering. What's not empowering is you allowing people to use your mouth, any hole, all your holes, your body like a piece of property

and bragging about it. That's not, that's, there's no, there's no respect in that. Here's the thing. If you're allowing someone to use your mouth or your body or any of your holes, because either you're doing it to impress somebody else or either you're coerced into doing in it, then it's not empowering. But if you're using your mouth and your holes or giving them to someone because you want to do that and that is what you like to do in spite of any societal judgment, how can it not be empowering? The stuff that they're talking about on WAP, you don't think they're going to go do that.

You don't know. The point is that they may. If they do it, it's because they want to do it. Because no, it's a fantasy. They are rapping. At the moment, they're rapping. about a fantasy. They're not rapping about any truth. And they made money off of it. But you don't. But what I'm saying is, is they made money off of rapping about something.

They didn't say, let me tell you about the time that I pulled up at an NBA hotel and had, like, that's not what the song is. That's not even what the song is about. So what you're saying is you can do whatever you want, but unless you're getting financially compensated for it, then it's some way lessens or demeans you. I'm not saying you can do whatever you want. Because what she's saying she did is not what Meg the Stallion and Cardi B are rapping about. They're not rapping about it in that same way. Like for all of you, if you haven't already, just you will believe me if you go watch this.

It's like a 15 minute interview. Go watch the 15 minute interview. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not saying that you can't be sexual and you can't do things that you want to do. That's not what this interview was. That's not what it was. I'm not going to make any judgments about what I think this woman. mental state is or anything like that, right?

The only thing that I'm going to do is I'm really not. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to reserve space for women, people in general to be as freaky or as nasty as they want to be. And if that freaking nasty means that you want to have seven members of a basketball team, run through you in any way, right? Or you want to run through them because they got dicks too. so if you want to use them for your pleasure, whatever it is,

and you want to come out and talk about that, I'm not going to judge you. That's what you into. If that's empowering to you, then that's empowering to you. That's your thing. That's your thing. How is it not empowering? It's empowering because you don't agree with it morally, Rachel?

Is that why? No, don't even put that on me. That's not even what I'm saying. I guess I look at the word empowerment as something different, right? It's about like building yourself up and building confidence. And to me, allowing people to throw your body around and put seven penises in your mouth and allow them to finish in your mouth. And then they just keep it moving on you. No, like that's not empowering.

And even as we proceed through this interview and we eventually get to a Tray songs and we'll talk about that. but when he even releases the messages that he released from her, there is no self-respect in the things that she's saying. And I guess that's- But what's not the self-respect in it, though? I guess, I guess when I think of empowering, it's like you become stronger, you become more confident. You become, it's like you are in control of your life.

When I'm sitting, I guess I just don't think of that as control. You're allowing somebody to use you for their own benefit. It's just not like they're telling you what you need to do. She even explains that as she's sitting in a bathtub. You know what I mean? Well, there are people, but there are people who like that. I'm not saying that she doesn't, I'm not saying that you can't like it. I'm saying the way she describes the story, it is not seem like it is something of empowerment.

That's, I think that's the word that I have issue with. Okay. So I'll put it to you like this. I'll put it to you like this. And the reason why is because let's say, that you like being degraded. I have a friend. But she doesn't.

That's the thing. That's why I tell people to listen to it. She doesn't like being degraded. She says that. But what I'm saying is when she was sucking a seven dicks, she didn't feel degraded. She didn't say that she felt degraded.

So she wasn't being degraded. Later on, she talks about being degraded. Yeah, right. But that's something different. Like, when she was sucking the seven dicks, she was like, I'm not degraded. Like, I'm sucking the seven dicks. Like, it's lit.

She was having fun. It was like, whatever, whatever. Y'all go watch the video. That woman is not okay. I'm to a point in my life, really, where if anybody has the balls, the nerve, the gumption to be who they really are, I find that empowering. I find it empowering.

I think that's a very loose definition of the word. One of my homeboys told me a couple of years ago that he likes it when a woman kicks him in his balls. He said, wait a minute. He said, one time he was with a chick, they laid on him, they laid on one of his balls, it kind of hurt. And he was like, yo, that's dope. And then he discovered that he likes to get kicked, kicked. And so when, and, you know, I laughed because that's, That's funny to me. I've never heard of that at that point. It is funny. And then also, but I felt like when I watched him tell me that,

he felt better like being able to share that with someone who wasn't the kicker. He felt like, I was like, yo, bro, you like what you like. I'm like, hey, man, cool. I mean, you're still you. You just like the sexual shit. To me, like, getting kicked on your balls and, like, being put through pain and all of that stuff, It's like, that's not anything that whatever, but that's kind of his thing. He's allowing someone to dominate her to do it, right?

Like, he's controlling and having authority over the situation. I guess she's telling these guys. But I guess if she was like, hey, I want you to do this to me, it would be a little, it's the word empower that I'm struggling with here. I get you. You want to say that I'm judging. I'm not judging her, right? I'm not saying you're judging.

It's the word empower that I guess I'm struggling with here. And by the way, I'm having this. eat your own. Like, that's what you want to do, girl. Go ahead. I'm having this back and forth with a woman who understands better what sort of that means to being to be socialized in a certain way in this country. I'm just wondering why isn't it?

If this is something that she likes and she wanted to do, she said it was lit. She said fuck it. She was having fun. She said everything was lit. Like, that was the extent of her vocabulary. That's all she said. Well, now you're making judgments about whether or not she can actually. I am making judgment because I saw this.

15 minute of video. I am making judgment. If you, I, like, before you all harp on me on what I'm saying, just watch the video and be your,

and be your own judge when you see it. Okay. So she talked about that and that one borrow first. They also talk about getting shit on. So just, just,

so just watch it. Did you not watch? That shit, though. One of them liked it. One of them didn't. And she didn't say she liked it. She just was like, for 10 Gs,

I mean, yeah. Like, I mean, I'm just setting the context. A lot of America that would get shit on for $10,000. I just want to, as Adam was at the same set to her, you make a lot of money.

Like, you would do that for $10,000. And she was like, yeah, I mean, I would just wipe it off and keep moving. And he goes, I think I would emotionally be affected if somebody degraded me in that way. Maybe. My point is, I want you to get the context of this entire 15 minute interview. But please proceed to Tray songs. All right. So during this 15 minute interview that they were having, she mentioned that she was,

that there was one particular time that things apparently weren't so lit. And we all grown here on higher learning. We haven't had very many podcasts that deal in the sexual lingo. So I'm just going to be straight up with this. If you got Virgin Bachelor Nation ears, you bought the blush a little bit. Like this is what she said happened. She said that she went. This is what she said.

No, yeah. She said that there was a particular singer that, you know, they had had sex a bunch of times. She said this guy was particularly virile. They had sex a million times. There was a stack of condoms. He told her to get into the bathtub. She got into the bathtub.

He told her to play with herself, her private lady parts, vagina. She played with the private lady parts. Told her to play with her upper lady parts. Breasts. She didn't play with those. And then all of a sudden, before she knew it, this celebrity began pissing on her.

And she had not consent. for that. Very important distinction to be made there because what she is essentially saying is that there was a point, an act that wasn't consensual. Consent is alive. It's an active living thing. People have to understand that. That means that at any point during a sexual action activity during sex, consent can either die or it can be born. Consent is alive. It lives, meaning you can say yes to something. Right. And then that consent can die at an act or for whatever reason.

Or you can be like, I don't feel like something. And then if you change your mind in 10 minutes, you can birth consent, right? If you say yes to it, if you change your mind for whatever reason, unless you were coerced or somebody put a gun on your head or something like that. So what she's saying is there was tons of consent before. And at this particular moment in time, who a guy who she says was Tray Songs, that he peed on her without any consent to it. Okay.

That opened up a conversation about Trey. All right. Trey's response to this. By the way, those allegations, Trey says that those allegations aren't true. He said this on his Twitter. You can go back and forth with anyone you want about who to believe there. That's, as he says, she said,

that's something that you always want to believe women when they come forth with these things. And this is not, you know, something else that Kiki Palmer had said about Trey started making the rounds. So if anybody wants to believe specific things about Trey songs, who is, by the way, somebody we have asked to come on this podcast before. Just let you guys know. I reached out to Trey a couple of weeks ago, asked him to come on the podcast just to talk about other things that he was doing because he's very, he's been very active in the social justice space for the last month, two months. I just wanted to know what prompted to change. And me and him, I've made him going back and forth. I wouldn't say we're friends, but we've definitely been friendly.

Yo, what's up with you? blah, blah, blah, whatever, whatever. Um, what I will say what, that what happened after that. So the back and forth about whether or not that happened, that is what it is. It depends on who you believe. Uh, and what you believe. Um, I can't say that that happened for 100% sure, but I also can't say that she's lying. I mean, I just never tell a one woman that they're lying about something like that.

Right. Uh, but what did happen after that was one of the worst things I feel like he could have done. Because after this was over, in order for him to, I guess, prove, to people the nature of the relationship that he had had had with this woman and that they had had tons of consensual encounters and that she had been on him and on him. And she was

asking him to unblock her offering to eat his ass and all kinds of stuff like that. It was on there. All that stuff is in the text messages, right? That's all that stuff was said. Yes, it was all there. He put those text messages on and he included her phone number. Oh, I didn't see that. He did. He docks her.

I mean, the Texas text messages were enough. Like, I hate when people do that. The text messages, but the text message is if... He put her phone number? He included her phone number. Oh, wow. More than anything, if I had to make a snap judgment,

it makes him look exactly like the person that she says he is. And I'm just to be completely honest about this, just because the only way to, like, I don't know if, I can't say if he didn't realize what he was doing, but if you're a guy of that level of fame with that many millions of followers, right? I get it. You're defending yourself from something that you're saying isn't true. And he went very, he was very specific about defending that.

He was also very specific about the point that he felt like this attack was coming on him because of all the work and all the way that he's been speaking out about social injustice and police brutality. You know, and there is something to be said that any time these brothers do speak out something like this, always ends up happening. And he felt like he was being the victim of it seemed like something coordinated. But he then victimized her in a real way, in a way that doesn't need any litigation, in a way that doesn't need there to be a back and forth. When you put a phone number out there, she is going to get hundreds and thousands of calls.

There were people in the replies saying, yo, I just hit her. She's not picking up. Yo, I just FaceTime and she's not. Now you're definitely victimizing her. Now you're definitely, definitely putting it out there. I don't know if that was a mistake on his part or if he forgot. Well, look, I don't know. I'm not saying that it was.

But if you look at the messages and the phone, then people are calling the girl. Now you're victimizing her plain view of everyone. I did not know he released the text messages, but I don't agree that it makes her. story seemed more true that he went to those measures. But I definitely think he is absolutely, I thought he was wrong for just showing the text messages. Not necessarily her story, but the picture that she's painting of him. I don't think that, but I, well, I mean, to me, I thought, okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, I, I thought him posting the messages

was bad enough. Like, he was like, y'all, y'all want to believe a bird? Like, just say it's not true and keep it moving. Like, I get it. If you, if it's, if you, if it's really not true, or if it is, and you just so want to protect your public image, I get that. I hated that he released private text messages. I thought that was bad enough. But the fact that now I'm learning, he released... Well, I don't have a problem with that. I do. I do. The reason why I don't have a problem with private text messages is because if you on a podcast telling my private business, you know what I mean? Like, if you're on a podcast

selling my private business, and I have any sort of correspondence that I think, you're on a podcast, think is going to exonerate me? Did you think that that exonerated him? I don't think that it exonerated him. There's no, it doesn't give you the timeline. There were, it didn't even exonerate him. I don't think that it exonerated him, but I do think that for a lot of people that are going to look at that, there are a lot of people that are going to look at that and go, oh, well,

she wanted to fuck him. That's what he did. And that's why I don't like, that's what I don't like about it. It's like, you know, like even I say all that stuff I say, it's like, girl, that's that's what you want to do. You do you. I don't think it's empowering. but that's the lifestyle that you want to live.

Fine. I don't have any type of say in that. But what I don't like is that he put up these messages trying to, almost as if, if he did it, it was warranted because of the way that she was coming out of him. And I guess that's what I didn't like about the messages. I don't like people releasing messages, period. But the messages he decided to release, I just thought it didn't prove anything other than to show

that she was all over him, which doesn't justify her. allegations if they are true. And that I had a huge, a huge problem with, but my God, he released her phone number? I didn't even know that. So look,

what, like, for me personally, the thing was like when he told her to get into the bathtub, right? When he get, when, like, I can understand, look, I could get, even in my head, how, and very rarely, very rarely in any, these situations, is there any type of misunderstanding?

Is you normally a man taking advantage of a woman, right? You've had sex with someone. You've done all of these freaky stuff. She said she had gone to the bathroom to wipe the nut off of her face so that they could go in and do another thing or something. That's what she said. But he came in and asked her to get into the bathtub. Maybe he could have said that he assumed that she realized what was going to happen,

which, by the way, is a piss. poor explanation for not asking like right there for consent. You don't even have to go there. It's a piss poor explanation. But perhaps you live in a world where you go, yo, man, we were doing all of this other stuff. I did this. I am really sorry.

I didn't realize. And then after, you know, that happened, we had several other times when we had talked. I didn't like, and you have to, sometimes it's hard for guys because don't get me wrong. like you can do some shit because of misogyny and patriarchy and all of those things. We have to relearn a lot of things and learn how to do this in a way to make women feel, to be honest with you, empowered during these situations. So there are definitely situations to where. Not empowered.

Well, no, you want them, you want to make them feel sexually empowered. You always want a woman to feel like it's completely okay to say no. Like it's, like, yes, that, that it's okay to say. No. Right. You always want to be like, you always want a woman to know, yo, shit. Hey, we can go to the goddamn bar if you want. Like, we can go for a walk. It don't have to happen. If you don't, if you're not with it, I'm not with it. You want women to be empowered in no situations so that they know. Not only is it like, it's not just okay to say no. Like, you're right. Your body. No is no. And I'm going to be okay with it. I'm not going to trip at all. Even if I pout a little bit, I'm just a fucking dumb ass man, but I'm not going to make you. feel pressured or intimidated or threatened it anyway. You have to work to do that. That's part of your, if you want healthy sexual relationships, you've got

to do that. So I guess in that situation, maybe he could have argued that maybe in that situation he thought he was doing something that she would have been okay with because of whatever they had going on and in that situation he was wrong

and just came out and been like, yo, if she said that she wasn't down with that, it wasn't like I was forcing her to do it. I was asking her to do things and she was doing them. And then I did that. I thought that she knew that I was going to do that or whatever. But to me, just when you add that with the fact that he victimized her in that public way, yo, I was, I was, that was fucked up, man.

That, like, that was super duper. I agree. Super duper. No matter what you think about her. And no matter, that, that's, that was super fucked up. My thing is, Eliza, if you didn't consent to what he did, then you need to report it. You know what I mean? Oh, you can't say that though, Rachel.

No, I'm saying that now. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, listen to what I'm saying. Don't take this. This is not the wrong way. I'm saying she might not have even realized what was happening to her in the moment. Do you get what I'm saying? She, like, she has said that she didn't consent to that act that he did on her.

She might not have realized what he's doing. in the moment. At this point, like the moment that she got on that podcast and she said she didn't consent. And then her friend also, Selena, is working with an attorney against Tray Songs for something else. She has posted that. What I'm saying is, is if you know you didn't consent, I would hope that you would at this point realize that that was not okay what he did and that you pursue legally what you need to do with that because that's not okay is what I'm saying. I don't want you to, I'm not saying that she should have done it at the time. That's not what I'm saying because I think there is absolutely, you don't even realize

sometimes that what's happening to you is happening to you. You know what I mean? Like it happens so quickly and you need to step away from the moment or even talk to somebody to say, I didn't agree to that and that wasn't okay. Right. And so my point is, is now that you have publicly gone on this podcast and said that you you didn't consent, I believe that you need to pursue whatever it is to not, you can never make it right because something was taken away from you, but because like for justice, I guess is

what I'm saying. I don't want you to think I wasn't, no, that's not what I was trying to say. No, no, no, no, I get it. I get it. I just, you know, I just get out of it. Because her friend has a lawsuit apparently, it gets me. Her friend posted an email from Lisa Bloom about something against Trayson. So I guess I'm just like.

Yeah, nothing that Lisa Bloom is involved in. If it really, if it happened. If your allegations are true, then seek justice for yourself. That's empowering. You know what I mean? Like if somebody wronged you, then do what you need to do for justice, for you, for yourself. Yeah. Like I said, he says, she said a portion of it.

It's something that you just don't know. Like you don't know. It's like you just don't know. There's no way to know whether or not that's something that happened or whether or not that's something that didn't happen. But what I do know is doxing her and putting her information on the internet, on Twitter, that is something that I can point to and say 100% without a doubt that was fucked up. Agreed. That was exactly with 100% without a doubt, like that was fucked up. And to your other question, you know, if you asked me about like,

if I'd ever heard anything like this, about Trey specifically when I was working at TMZ or anything like that, no. Mm-mm. Yeah. It never came through there with us. I know people with personal stories that have never said anything like that. Well, I mean, you know, so I mean, I'm not, look. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen, you guys.

It doesn't mean it didn't happen. No, no. I'm sure you run the gamut. You will find some ladies that, I mean, B.B. Rexal was talking about now. it's all kind of people, like whatever, like it's all, whatever people have had to say. And thank you for bringing that up. Bibi Rex, there's a, there's a clip from her on a radio station,

but it's a video and she's talking about an incident that she, an encounter that she had with Tray Songs where he forced himself on her. And she told him no and he moved on. And with a kiss and pushed up against the wall and kissed her. And they laughed about it. And she was sitting within a room full of men, that we're laughing it off. And I guess if we can take anything from this,

realize the seriousness in this. This isn't something that should be laughed about. It shouldn't be, it's not a joke, it's not playful. Like, Van did an absolutely excellent job of talking about what consent is and what it is not. And I think that we need to stop laughing these things away, whether it be an inappropriate touch, an inappropriate comment, an inappropriate act,

physical, whatever, don't laugh it off. It's an actually very serious allegation, whatever it may be. And we need to start taking it more seriously and start taking women's stories more seriously. And not saying they put themselves in a certain position, not saying that they deserved it. We need to honor what women say and their voices. Now, we tried to get to the bottom of the Tray Song situation, but we don't have all the information. Right. Don't have all the information about the Tray Songs deal.

Okay, don't have that. But what we do have now is more information about what happened to Raptors' president, Maasai Ujiri. Now, if you guys don't remember, the Raptors won the NBA championship last year. Okay? They looked pretty good this year as well. Maasai, Ujiri, is the president of the Raptors. All right.

after they won game six over, was it six or five? I think I'm pretty sure it was six. After they won game six in Oracle Arena over the Warriors, right? Masay Jiri, the president of the team walks down to go on to the floor in order to celebrate with the team that he is the president of. there was an altercation with a cop who was working in the capacity of being an off-duty security guard at Oracle Arena. The cop had sued Massia, Ujiri, claiming that he had pushed him when he was trying to get on the court. And the cop was telling the cop the cop was telling him, no. The body cam footage of this interaction was released.

And what do you guys think? was the case. It clearly shows this police officer initiating violent contact with Missai Yerre completely

lied on this man and this cop is suing him. It's suing him and it's a total lie and it's all right there when you saw the body cam video Rachel, what did you think?

It took me back. It took me back to that moment because it was all captured on video, on film, on a, in picture when that altercation happened between Masayu Jiri and the security guard. Masayu Jiri's face in that moment was like, I mean, if a picture had a thousand words, I don't even know how to describe it. This man, and if you know the journey of the Raptors that year, he bet on, he bet on himself and he bet on the Raptors. He went after Kauai Leonard, who was injured, who had issues with San Antonio Spurs, and gave him a one-year deal. I believe it was a one-year deal. He's one of the best GMs in the NBA. Yeah, it was pretty much all or nothing, right? People thought it was a crazy move.

He let go of DeMar de Rosen. and who had been with the team forever, broke up the duo that he had with Kyle Lari and brought in Kauai Leonard and nobody knew what was going to happen with that, let alone that they would win the entire championship. So this is a man who is truly celebrating the greatest accomplishment. He bet on himself when nobody else was, other than the Raptors, was really down with him. And here he is walking down to celebrate, to celebrate with his team, And in that moment, he is reminded that he's not the president of the Toronto Raptors.

He's reminded of his blackness. And that's the look on his face. And it's so disheartening to go back and remember that. It's so just, it's great that the body cam footage came out and we know what the truth is now. But isn't it sad to that that is the truth? That once again, we are shown that it doesn't matter what your title is. is, how much money you have. If you're black, that's exactly what people see first.

And that's how they judge you from the beginning. So you can, you can, and I guess what was so powerful about coming, the body cam footage coming out is that it's a reminder of, of what it is to be black. And it doesn't matter what your title or how much power you have. So when these people want to circulate videos of Morgan Freeman or Marcellus Wiley's, Wiley making comments or even Jason Whitlock. They want to tell you that, you know, oh, you know, you become successful and, you know, they made it and, you know, no excuses and things like that.

At the end of the day, people judge you by your blackness. And this was a case and point of it. And it was just so sad to see that this man, his truth was taken as gospel, right? that what he, his depiction, the sheriff of the incident is the truth. And it actually wasn't. And he went as far to first try to get criminal charges against Masayu Jerry. And that was eventually dismissed by the prosecutor because doing an investigation. They've had this footage. It's just now been released to the public. They realize that there was no criminal charge there that could be pursued. But then he said, you know what? That's not enough. I'm going to continue with this lie. And basically my whiteness.

and I'm going to sue you, almost as if, first, you were just a black man, and I'm just going to use my authority against you as a black man, but, oh, you're a black man with money. Now I'm actually going to civilly sue you and try to get money after you and exert all my whiteness against you on this lie that he had built. And so to see the footage come out into what the truth is, it's this realization that the Black Lives Matter movement, things people are saying it's not made up.

It's not a fantasy. It can happen to any of, us, even the president of the Toronto rappers, the reigning NBA champions. Raptors. The Toronto rappers. Yeah, they got Drake. The Toronto rappers. They got, yeah, the Toronto rappers.

The Toronto Raptors. I'm upset. They got Drake, Cardinal Office Shaw, all of them up there on the team. You know what I'm saying? The Toronto rappers. Yeah, but you give my point. Like, it can happen to the best of us is my point. And you can't status yourself out of the time.

being black. You can't status yourself. I remember the president of Harvard back in the day, I think was the president of Harvard. Remember the guy, the cops walk in and like he's in his own crib. Do you remember that joint? No, wasn't that Henry Lewis Gates? Henry Lewis Gates. So it was, excuse me, it was

Henry Lewis. Professor, Hillary Lewis Gates, the guy, you know, shout out to Pineal Joseph. Henry Lewis Gates and him worked together on a lot of things. Henry Lewis Gates always trying to help you track down who your peoples are. and your family tree. You know, cops walk in. He's in his own crib. You know, they put this man in cuffs.

You know, they, and they, and it was a major thing at the time it led to the infamous, now infamous beer summit with him, Obama and the cop, where I guess they all sit down and they talk about kind of what it is that's going on. But it's the same situation that we talked about with Oprah when she was in the shop. Like, you can't status yourself out of this. there's no tax bracket where you're not black. There's a tax bracket where you can pretend you're not black. You can price yourself out of a little bit of oppression. But when they want to come back and remind you of who you are, the people that don't believe in the freedom, justice,

and equality for all people, they can do that. And your skin is, at least in America, the most powerful, both contemporary and historic indicator of who you are. and I don't know how many times we have to keep learning that lesson. And I don't have how many times we have to keep saying that in order for people to realize

that that's what it is that we are dealing with. And we're dealing with police officers and other people like, they don't care about that. They know that they're white and they know that in this country that's always had some currency. And that currency has been more important

than whatever you darkies are talking about today. You mentioned a name in there. Jason Whitlock. Did you see what Jason Whitlock wrote. Unfortunately, I did, Van. I'm glad, because this is not in the rundown, but I'm going to add this real quick. Super-sized episode of Higher Learning, because we're going to get to the mailbag and to

unexpected ally, but I want to take the time. Oh, my God. I forgot. We have all of that still. Yeah. I want to take the time. I want to take the time to deal with Jason Whitlock really quickly. So Jason Whitlock is a former ESPN writer.

and television personality, former Fox television personality, he used to host, speak for yourself. The show is now hosted by Rachel's friend, Emmanuel. A fantastic replacement.

He's a great guy. Shoulders of Life. That boy got more shoulders. I don't even say how you got that type of. That's like, he's shoulders. Emmanuel, I'll just shoulders. But no, Jason Willock wrote an article about

he talked about the Lakers failure. to have success thus far, at least, by the time this podcast comes out that will have played a game and we'll know whether or not the Lakers are tie 1-1 or down O-2. But they lost the first game

to the Portland Trailblazers. Jason Whitlock seems to think that a component of the Lakers losing to the Portland Trailblazers is their lack of focus due to the fact that they are overly concerned

with the Black Lives. matter movement. In short, if you read this article, Jason Whitlock says, we're harping on it. Jason Whitlock says that he, he used an example of a very brave man that survived the Holocaust and gave a quote something like that's saying, you know, I don't want to, I'm going to bring up the article itself. Do you have the article, Rachel, so you can give exactly, I'm going to bring up the article. I think I do. I have the article up. Yeah. So bring up the article right. And like, and I don't want to get the quote wrong because. because it actually is a very beautiful quote by this Holocaust survivor. Okay. His quote is,

everything can be taken from a man or woman, but one thing, the last of human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances to choose one's way. Unquote. So what Jason Whitlock is specifically saying is that, to a degree, LeBron James, the Lakers, whomever,

whoever is harping the Black Lives Married movement, that we've chosen the attitude of being the persecuted and the downtrodden. He also uses statistics to prove his case where he says that the statistics prove that more white people are killed by police in America every year than black people. Now, we've gone down this road a million times.

It's not about the sheer numbers. White people are a number of black people in America greatly. it is about the likelihood that you will get unfairly brutalized, arrested, or killed by the police. Those numbers easily indicate that black Americans are at a higher incidence for all three, a higher chance for all three. So, you know, Jason Whitlock can take that up with the brilliant Sandy Deity or any other of the economists that have looked at that, studied those numbers, and come away with those findings. Now, what were your initial takeaways from what he wrote? Jason Whitlock. I mean, I thought, listen, the Lakers are losing because they're stacked up against a team of shooters that can match up or have an answer to anybody, any player on the Lakers roster, right?

The Lakers are losing because they built an entire team around two people. The Lakers are losing because KCP went O for nine in the first playoff game. from the field. 0 for 5 from the three point. Yeah. Had one point in 29 minutes. Rondo's out and Coos is unreliable. Okay?

That's why the Lakers are losing. Head on Cooze like that? Ooh. I am. He is unreliable. He's hot and cold. He's hot and cold. You can tell I'm not a Lakers fan.

That's why the Lakers are losing. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are deciding to use their platforms for social justice. Right. I think that this is the most. idiotic article. And a part of me hates that we are giving it attention, but it needs to be given attention because this is the type of article that people will take around and circulate like a Candace Owens video or a Larry Elder video to say, see, see what one of yours said. And that's why you have to talk about it because it is so stupid. But there's so many fallacies in this article,

right? Like him talking about the Holocaust and comparing it. to, you know, how many Jews, you know, died at the hands of the Holocaust to then comparing black people being killed at the hands of cops, starting with Trayvon Martin, but not talking about the social injustices that black people have suffered. He only covers eight years. What about the other hundred, three hundred and ninety three. It's just, there's just so much, there's so many things wrong with this article, but to knock LeBron James and all the other NBA players, the Lakers in this incident that are using their platform to speak out against social injustice and to speak, because this directly affects them, or to say that we use fear

as an excuse or that we're creating fearmongering amongst our people, and we need to change our attitudes because we're basically crippling ourselves, and that's what the Black Lives Matter movement is, is so idiotic. If you just read what the Black Lives Matter movement is about, it stands for nothing like that. And I don't like the fact that he's trying to say that we're using Black Lives Matter as a crutch. All we're just asking is to be treated equally and to be on the same playing field. We aren't looking for handouts or anything like that. We're just saying treat us like you would treat your own. That's it. We're not about creating fear. It's about survival. It's about knowledge. And it's about equipping yourself with the education so you can

move about in this society, knowing how you were viewed because of the way you look. Masay Ujiri is an excellent point when it comes to that. That's why I think it's interesting. talking about both of those stories on the same day. I hate everything about this article. I hate almost everything the Jason Whitlock stands for. The man is a clown. The man is an absolute clown. And at this point, he has sold his soul for clicks.

Oh, wow. Talk your shit, big rage. Obviously, I agree. So, I mean, you know, I've had Jason Whitlock on a podcast before. I've interviewed Jason Whitlock. Me and Jason Willock have sparred before. This article is sad. It's sad because, number one, it's distasteful to both communities to all juxtapose the horror of the Holocaust to chattel slavery here in the United States.

Those are two completely different things with completely different mechanisms. The Jewish community has done a fantastic job of here in America maintaining their cultural strength, their cultural unity. they've done a fantastic job of never forgetting how the world abandoned them when they needed the world most, for the most part. They've never forgetting. That's why any time there's a hint of anti-Semitism, they rally together and they strike it down because they understand that there was a guy who started whispering anti-Semitism. And that anti-Semitism turned into a shout, then to fight. thousand shouts, then to 10,000 shouts. And it ended up going from being a whisper to the collective voice of an entire nation. And they paid for that voice. And they paid for the inaction of the world to step in and recognize the human rights violations that were going on there. So they pay for that with six million lives. And then six million others pay for that as well with their lives. So they get that. And that is a reason why, you know, what they've been able to. able to do culturally, and this is not to otherize them, but what they've been able to do culturally

in terms of always keeping their eye on not just anti-semitic threats, but threats to freedom, justice, and equality in different places has been admirable. So, it's interesting that Whitlock would take that and then some way, because what's happening here, what everybody, you know, what Whitlock just did was called Black Americans weak. What he said was that there was another group of people that were persecuted in a very disgusting way, and what he considers to be a worse way, never minding the fact that what we're talking about is 40 to 60 million black people dead through the course of child of slavery, something that's never been reconciled with Black Americans.

then coming out of that, going into Jim Crow, going into the racial segregation of the South, then going into mass incarceration. America keeps inventing new ways to exploit the black community, and that is intentional. I don't want anyone to think that if there was any way out of this other than looking the devil right in his face, that I wouldn't choose that way. And when I say the devil, I mean racism. Racism and systemic inequality. Those things are the devil. They are evil. They are choking, not just my people, but the progress and the coherent value system of America.

We simply cannot continue to progress. We cannot progress as a country if we don't reconcile those things. And the makers never even tried. So everything that Whitlock is talking about, it's based on such a faulty premise that if you put weight on it, it's always going to crack. Like in a situation, even with the Holocaust, right? The world recognized that, and it wasn't just due to the Holocaust, the world recognized two things. Number one, that the Jews of the world needed a place they can go through, go to be safe.

That happened, even though going all the way back to the beginning of that century, you know, you had people going back and forth, you know, about that. There are issues with that that you could talk about in terms of Israel and Palestine and all of that. But the world tried to at least come through and reconcile what happened in a Holocaust. Also, Germany as a country throughout the scope of the world was held responsible for what it was that they did. The people responsible, the Nazi party in Germany, the citizens that went to along with it, they were forced to reconcile themselves. They had to do it. In order to be a part of the world community, it was a necessity that German people reconcile what they followed and what they went along with. That has simply never been done here. And you cannot tell me that they would be

completely rid of the Nazi purge in Germany if they just wash their hands of it and went, okay, you guys are good now. Yeah. You can't tell me that if they just went, all right, well, no, that they wouldn't keep dealing with rebirths of these factions. They had to kill ideas. They had to kill the idea that anything that happened there was okay. That's never happened with slavery.

It's never happened with the KKK. That's never happened with redlining. That's never happened with voter suppression. That never happened with the black codes. That's never happened with any of that. No. haven't even tried. What they've done is because we haven't forgotten it,

like Jason Whitlock is saying, just dealt with it, forget about it, move on. Because we haven't done that, we've been called the nuisances. Remember, a people that was drug over here, right, crossed thousands of miles of salt and sharks, brought here.

No language. Don't know where you at. Don't know anything. and given oppression for the end of that journey. Somehow with guys like this, it's our fault. And in America, that kept building on that, people are going to say, man, that was a long time ago. They're right.

It was. But like, if I come to you, if you and Brian and copper are living in a house, right? Right. And I come to you and I burn your house down. Right? And I say, you guys can't leave this house, whatever, you have to stay here,

And whatever you eat is what I feed you. Wherever you go is like whatever you have is what I give you. And you guys stay there and your children live there and your children's children live there, right? You can't leave this. You are literally living on the burnt shards of your former life, right? I've taken everything from you, destroyed everything, right? Before I can make you completely free and tell you to just like, I come to one day and say, hey, you guys are good, you can leave now.

Well, the first thing I got to do, Rachel, is build you another house. Right. The first thing I have to do is do something to help get you to a point where you can be competitive, free, and whole. And you know what that starts with the admission that I was wrong? Yep. That's what it starts with. Even if I'm apologizing for my great-great-grandfathers, hey, they fucked it up. The admission that I was wrong.

So the real thing disservice that Jason Whitlock, does to his community is by sort of feeding into old racist, sometimes backed by eugenic tropes that we are in some way weaker or not capable of being full Americans and full human beings. That in some kind of way, this beautiful man that he talked about, which there's a beautiful quote. It really is. That in some kind of way,

that culture is either stronger or more capable of getting over an atrocity than we are. We're living the atrocity. Like, we're living it. So it's like, it's disrespectful to them, to our Jewish brothers, and it's disrespectful to us too.

And I don't understand. Like if you just accepted the way things are, then you would be fine, right? Like, just accept it. It's thinking, like, because Black Lives Matter is us. It's something that we created. It's all the thinking. And he's basically saying, don't do that. You're weak by doing that.

That's wrong. Just accept what's been given to you. Accept things the way that they are. Change your attitude and keep it moving. Like, that's pretty much what he's saying, which is. By the way, who gives a fuck about a basketball game? That's the worst part is that he compares all the two workers. I love the Lakers.

If the Lakers, LeBron James means so much more to me, to be honest with you guys, I don't even too much like LeBron James that much as an athlete. He's cool. He does his thing. No, works hard, doing things at this time of his career, nobody else says. But I've never been a big LeBron fan.

I was a Kobe guy. Same. But I have more fucking respect for LeBron James and almost any other. I'm the biggest LeBron James fan in the world just because, and the man that he has,

the family is, I wouldn't give a fuck if they didn't win any games. It would be great if they went all the way. I wouldn't give a fuck about that. There are things that are more important and I actually like the fact that he's able to put things in perspective.

Fuck basketball. With Lock, you get out there and play some basketball. Okay, I'm not going to make a person. He's awful. This is a worked-up podcast. That's a worked-up podcast. No, go ahead and lighten the mood.

Lighten the mood a bit. Lighten the mood with Mailback Thursdays. Okay, guys, we're going to do something different for Mailback Thursdays. Our incredibly talented associate producer, I guess she's a producer. She's a producer of the podcast. Give it to her. Producer. Jordan is going to be reading the mailback questions this week.

And Rachel and I are going to be responding to your questions. Yes. Mailback Thursdays, higher learning, sponsored by. Nobody yet. Whenever you're ready, Jordan. Okay, so the first question from Teresa Carno at Teresa C-16 on Instagram. Is there any instance or context

where non-black people can use AVE, which stands for African-American vernacular English? I don't know what that is. I, okay. You don't know what African-American vernacular is? African-American. Oh, wait, wait, she's saying non-black people can talk like black people? Basically.

Or use certain words that they use like, like, oh, girl, your kitchen looks like it's just a little rough. Or you look a little ashy. You know what I mean? Like those type of things. How about this? No. Next question. Wait, can I just say something about this really quickly?

I think that this is, this is, I don't know why I asked you. What are you talking about? Because of the podcast. I just feel like I asked. This is actually a very relevant question too because of the TikTok video that has gone viral now with the for me. Have you seen this?

Well, it's the, well, it's the, so it's two couples going against each other who every video I have seen, they aren't black. And so they're saying, for me, you know, you're like, yeah, you know, it was his hair for me. You know how you use that term? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're going back and forth with each other

and they're like, well, it was the smile for me. And it was this for me. And that's how they say it. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. People are, you even see this? Black people are livid. I think it was on Shade Room or Baller alert because it's like they're imitating black people,

but they're also using a phrase that black people use. And this person, Teresa, I think, was her name, is saying, is it okay? It is not. It is not. It's not okay. It's not okay. No, I'm not fucking with it. Look, if you're trying to,

look, if you're trying to make fun of black people and talk like black people, talk, go for it. And then, like, you'll see how that reaction will happen. But if you're, like, being serious. Do it to a black person. Just go out. Just go out. Just do it. Go forward.

I always tell people that. People go, hey, yo, man, can I use an end word? I can't tell you what you can't do. I can just tell you, go ahead and say it. Go ahead and say it. So I'm going to get my sister on the phone and then give her your address. And then Ebony Lathen going to come say, what's up? Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, just go ahead and do it. Like, I'm sick of the bullshit. Hey, man. you want. I'm saying no, but y'all not going to listen anyway, so fuck it. Go for it. Go wild. Go wild. Go wild. We're going to tie your fucking shoes together and push you in the back. You're going to skin your knee. You know what I'm saying? That's as far as it goes. Just a skinning of the knee. We're a nonviolent podcast here. Hireland. That was like super specific. Okay. Next question. Another from Instagram. Allie Thomas A underscore Thomas underscore 23. What's your best advice to a white woman who is raising her biracial kiddos alongside a black husband? Ooh.

Oh, that's a good one. That's a, oh, Rachel. Rachel? But I'm, no, no, no. This woman is white. I'm black. I know, but you write up, this is going to be right up your alley because you got the biracial's coming. Listen, I think this is very simple.

Was it alley? Was that her name? I think this is very simple. You just have to realize your children will be black, no matter what, complexion, they come out, no matter the fact that you are white, yes, they are half white as well, but no matter what, they will have a black father and you have to let your children know that they are black. I would also ask you to do this because I had a neighbor who lived beneath me. They were white. They were a white couple and they had adopted a black girl. I would say,

since you are a white mother and you will have black children, or you do have black children, she already has children. If you do have like a question, like my neighbor asked me about hair products And she, rather than have her child go out and not have her hair properly combed, she decided to ask me. And I actually thought that that was nice. So I pulled out my hair products and I did the little girl's hair. And I think that that's like, don't be afraid to ask questions to somebody that you trust. Trust. Okay, Van's laughing at me.

But at the end of the day, you need to remind your children that they are black one and also have somebody that you can trust and ask the question to. Go ahead, Van. Go ahead. Oh, I like that. I love that. That's a very nice. It's a real, I love that she's asking. She comes up and says, Rachel, little Shnika, well, I don't know what to put on her hair.

Do you know, like, do you know, like, and you got, you broke out the, you broke out the just for me. And then you went ahead and you put it in her hair and did the whole deal. It's great. It's amazing. I told her what products to buy. I told her what type of call me use. Like, I appreciate it. There's a, this is us episode about this too.

Like, you should, you should ask, ask. This is my only thing. I really don't really have a great. answers for this because I don't have any kids and stuff like that. But I will tell you this, though, just don't overdo it. Okay? Overask, you mean? No, not overask. Whatever. I'm saying, don't overdo it. Like, don't show up to PTA Day in Kentee cloth. You know what I'm saying? Don't, don't, don't, don't suggest to the school board that we observe Kwanza. Don't be that lady. Okay. You have a relationship with your child and you want your child to be able to access all

parts of themselves. That's a very personal relationship. The world might never get it. Just don't, don't overdo it. You know what I'm saying? Make sure that they know specifically what's going on. And lean on your husband. I was just about to say that. Yes. Lean on your husband, man. Don't like just because like little shit. Like I see interracial relationships where little shit bothers people. Little shit. I've seen little shit. Like they'll go, hey, you know, we had we've eaten Italian through the couple of last night. Let's do your. thing. Let's do some fried chicken tonight. Let's make sure. What? Who are these

iterations? That does not happen in my relationship. It happened. I know, because it's probably like, the plantains and beans. You know what I mean? I'm just joking. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. It is, though. He likes that shit, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly. No, I'm not laughing because it's laughing because it's true.

Yeah, yeah, Brian. All right. So, next question. From Lainey Walden on Instagram In your life, did you ever realize you had your own biases or ignites? Oh, yeah, I did.

I did. I realized I was homophobic. When? I realized I was homophobic when my sister first came out to me as gay. I tell you why I realized that was homophobic.

Because I was, I realized, that I was homophobic, not because I actually had any real issue with it. It's just that I feel like I needed to. This is going to sound stupid. So my sister being gay was never, it wasn't like when me and her talked about it, it wasn't a big deal to me because, you know, I knew it. You know, she was, you know.

Where do you fall in line? She's, I'm younger than her. But, you know, I knew. It wasn't a surprise and shot to me. You know, you have a roommate that came from Jamaica and she stays with you for like the whole summer and you guys are living together. I kind of thinking out, you know, there's something's on the menu and it's probably a vagina. Now, so, but when she, and I had been around her friends who some of them were gay for a long time,

and it had never been an issue, you know, rest and peace to my man, Dominique, who me and him used to play video games together and stuff like that. A great guy passed away not too long ago. One of my sisters' baby friends, it's an amazing, beautiful soul. Love the guy. But after my sister came out to me as gay, I thought that when my friends heard this and when people around town heard this,

that they would somehow assume that I was gay. And so when I thought that, right, it was my worst fear. It was my worst fear that anyone could ever think that I was gay. So I ratchet it up. the toxicity of who I was and I was like this and I was throwing around the F word and doing all this stuff, ways that I had really never really been before, but I was doing it to make sure people didn't think that I was gay too, that somehow was genetic in any sort of way.

And I realized that that more than anything told me about what my opinions of what gay people were because it was the last thing I would have ever wanted anyone to think that I was. So it's not even that I had any actual animus, but I was so afraid of anyone possibly believing that I was that. I get that. That I tried to massage everybody's opinions of me. And so that's what I had to take time and realize

that if you're going to be an ally to someone, It's not just about caring about them, it's about putting it on the line for them. In order to put it on the line from someone, you have to let everybody know where you stand. Everybody has to know. You can't be in shadow or in secret or in anything like that. Everybody's got to know where you stand. And I sat with that for a while. And, you know, it took me like you got to grow up and you got to mature.

But remember something about you growing up and you're maturing. The whole time that you're growing up and maturing, the people that are being persecuted, see, they're dying. So my only advice to everyone who's trying to grow up and mature to be a better ally is fucking do it faster. So when I realized that that was a thing with me, I tried as much as I could with the help of my beautiful sister and everybody as she knows to address it. And I think I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I'm, I'm, I'm in a piece of shit. Ironically, against interracial couples. Jesus Christ. And as we all know, I'm in one now, so it's funny how God works.

But I talked about this a little bit on uncomfortable conversations, but Van's favorite web series. I guess for me it was hearing so many black men talk about the type of women that they were interested in growing up that didn't look like me. And they wanted an exotic woman. They felt like they, and literally my, I was, I was very much so a tomboy. So the, the homies felt very comfortable talking around me in a very free way. And they didn't look at me that way, but they would talk about the type of women that they were into and they weren't black women. It was white women. They felt like they made it or exotic women or they wanted their hair to look a certain way or their complexion.

And so I just became very jaded by that. I would also, as I moved to college, have guys that would say, oh, I only date white women because I had a bad experience with a black woman or, you know, and so for me, I just became very much so anytime I would see it, I would be like, oh, there go one of them, you know, like they just, they love white women. I never looked at it as maybe they just date all kinds of people. Maybe they just love everybody. Maybe they're just attracted to who it is inside and not necessarily based on what the person is. person looks like. So I was very anti. I judged anybody that I saw that was in an interracial couple. And I had people in my family that were in interracial couples. But I was like, not me. I'm not going to do that. And then you talk about it as you get older and as you mature and as you start to see things in a different way and you open your eyes up, I started being more open about how I viewed relationships, specifically interracial relationships. And I just started thinking about dating people who I was attracted to, who I connected with, who I vibed with, no matter

what they look like. But that wasn't really until I was in my 30s. Like, I remember I tried to date someone. I went on a date with a white guy and he dated a lot of black women. And it was my first date. And I remember having a panic attack in the bathroom and had to call my sister. Because I just felt like everybody was staring. I like really had an issue with it.

But, you know, clearly I'm over it now. Hey. Opposite end of the spectrum. Shout out to Brian. All right, you guys, we are super heavy here. This is a super sized episode, so we're going to get right to unexpected ally of the week sponsored by nobody yet. Rachel, who is your unexpected ally of the week? Real quick, Dolly Parton, other than the other people of the Democratic National Convention who have stepped up against Trump, like John Kasich, we were talking about,

Dolly Parton, who came out and said, do you think our little white asses are the only ones that matter? Loved everything that she had to say about that and her support of Black Lives Matter. Yeah. Mine is Miss Mary. My son General. My son, my homie, my son.

I don't know why I just went to his own name. Talked about a lady that was down there protesting at the Attorney General's house. She is like a 70-year-old lady or something like that. She's an old lady. she was protesting with them and she got arrested. Where? In Kentucky? I think it was down there.

I think it was down there in Kentucky. They were, go to My son's Twitter page, excuse me, his Instagram page. He says, this elderly woman who is just known as Mary was just arrested as she protested with seven others for justice for Brianna Taylor

on the Attorney General Daniel Cameron's Law. And that's what I'm talking about. She hasn't lost a fire. Having lost her fire. That's a real ally. Take one for the team. Freedom, justice, inequality. Go ahead, Ms. Mary.

We love you. Miss Mary. Miss Mary. All right, you guys. Fantastic episode of higher learning. We're going to know more about LeBron's fading the playoffs by the time this comes out. But until then, I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay.

Thanks for hanging with us today, guys. We'll see y'all next week.