Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Renaissance Man Jalen Rose and the Apologetic Kimmy Schmidt

Episode Date: June 8, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay address the recent public apology of Ellie Kemper (1:08), the Logan Paul vs. Floyd Mayweather fight (6:28), and why Robert Kraft’s surprise birthday gift is SO annoying (15:18). Then NBA analyst, best-selling author, and charter school founder Jalen Rose stopped by to give some insight on what’s motivated him to become the beloved renaissance man he is today (26:44). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Jalen Rose Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Harlearn is on. This is I, Van Lathen. And it's me, Rachel, Lindsay. All right, Rachel, you don't have time for the podcast today. You just told me to make it quick. You know, don't be telling you. Ain't nothing sacred.

No secret here. Y'all, my co-hosts does not have my back. Rachel has to be out. She has some other really important things to do. And so we're going to make it. We're going to do our rest. But first, always higher learning. Higher learning.

of course for Howard Learns first. But we just had a really, really amazing interview with Jalen Rose. And it's one of our, it's a longer interview for us, but we're going to leave it right there as it is because it is really fantastic. The brother's great.

So we wanted to be able to honor him and give him the space. So you know what we're going to do? We're going to dismiss with the pleasure trees, the how is your weekend and all of that stuff. We're not even going to care about that. We're going to jump straight into the topics. Let's go.

Let's go. Let's do. to the top is who cares rach because we all know that you got to place you got to be um all right so as i thought ellie kemper has apologized just want to talk about this real quick i want to shout out kimmy smit all right she kimmy smit they got on kimmy smit ass all right let's see so kimmy smit she apologized let me look at the thing it wasn't no tap she gave us full text so good for you Kimmy. She said, when I was 19 years old, I decided to participate in the debutante ball in my hometown.

The century-old organization that hosted the debutante ball had an unquestionably racist, sexist, and elitist past. I was not aware of this history at the time, but ignorance is no excuse. I was old enough to have educated myself before getting involved. I unequivocally deplored, denounced, and reject white supremacy. At the same time, I acknowledge that because of my race and privilege, I am not the beneficiary of a system that has dispensed unequal justice and unequal rewards. There is a very natural temptation when you become the subject of internet criticism to tell

yourself your detractors are getting it all wrong. But at some point last week, I realized that a lot of the forces behind the criticism are forces I've spent my whole life supporting and agreeing with. I believe very strongly in the values of kindness, integrity, and inclusiveness. Try to live my life in accordance with these values. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Blu, ble, blah. I wanted to apologize to the people I've disappointed and I promise that moving forward I will listen and continue to educate myself and use my privilege in support of a bare society

that I think we're capable of becoming. What do you think about this apology, Rachel Lindsay? Good for you, Ellie. Ellie, right? I almost said Kimmy. You got me thrown off. I don't like critiquing people's apologies. That's not true.

That's no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not true. That's not true at all. You have definitely critiqued people's apologies on here. Name them. Okay, it's going to jump in my head, but by the way, higher learning audience, you should, you should think about this. You've definitely critiqued people's apologies on here.

I said I don't like to. I didn't say I'd never have. Okay. But the reason, it depends. Like, there could be circumstances, something said within the apology that makes me, have a certain response to it. The only thing I would say about this is I'm very curious as to why it took her so long to write this apology out.

Was a week? There you go. I said a question. A question. I'm not talking about the contents of her apology, right? She said there's no excuse, which I think is super important to say in this. She's acknowledging her ignorance, but saying that that is not an excuse. And she's right.

It's not. And she's vowing to do better, which is all you can ask. I'll pass that. But it's a written apology, and it took her a week, maybe plus, to write it. I love you. You just said, I don't like to critique people's apologies. You're forcing my hand.

You're forcing my hand. Went into immediately. You're forcing my hand. Criticking people's apologies. You would have been so upset if I would have been like, I don't want to critique her apology. Next time. No, I wouldn't have been.

I would have been like whatever you want to do. I'm not talking about it. I'm compliment. what she said in her apology. I'm just wondering why the delay. Because what she said is great. And I think, I mean, maybe she hinted to it a little bit. She said your initial response is to say that's not the case.

I'm not that. And I understand that. But I like what she had to say in her apology. I have no problems with what she said. I'm just talking about when she decided to say it. That's all. So I get understanding. So I'm looking at some of the celebrity reactions in the,

in the post. I'm sure it's positive. Retweets. It is, it is. And they should be. You have Mindy Kaling who gave five hearts. A five heart apology rating from Mindy K. Okay, we're rating it.

How many hearts are you giving it? You have no hearts. You have Wendy McClinton Kovie. I don't know who that is. She gave four hearts. So she was slightly less impressed. Just probably the timing. Then Mindy Kaling.

You have Katie Kourke. How many hearts do you think Katie Couric gave? her for this apology. She probably gave different emojis. No, she gave a heart. She gave, oh, one? He gave hearts. One heart. Whoa. One heart. Angela Kinsey, one heart.

Did she say drop a heart if you agree? Why is everybody giving hearts? Mike Carlson, adore you, Ellie, but then only one heart. Rain Wilson, three hearts. But then only one heart. Aubrey Plaza. Three? Wow.

Three hearts. Aubrey Plaza. One heart. One heart What color is the heart? All of these hearts are red So it's all red hearts And then you have Alec Baldwin Who said

Man, man fuck them niggas That was his response Oh my God Listen Good for you Ellie She's good with me I don't care Yeah I think her apology is fine

Just curious that's all Give a shit All right I don't Let's take a break For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks,

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For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimfaya, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severe. active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver

problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com Hi, I'm Jalen Rose, 13-year NBA veteran, TV personality, and host of the hit podcast, Jalen Rose Renaissance Man, proudly presented by the New York Post. Every Thursday, I sit down with the hottest celebrities in fashion, entertainment, sports, and more. I talk to chefs, rappers, journalists, and actors like David Chang, Nause, Katie Couric, and Gabrielle Union. Download Jalen Rose, Renaissance Man podcast on your favorite platforms.

Paul, Logan Paul, Floyd Mayworth the fight. Did you watch it? I did. I did too. Did you pay for it? Nope. Illegal stream. Yeah, mine wasn't working.

But do you know why? The only reason why we had to go to the illegal stream, the reality is that Showtime, you shouldn't even be mad at me that I did it by illegal stream because I tried several times to pay for the fight. Thank you. You couldn't get on. He kept getting that error.

You kept getting that error. The error kept doing it. I tried here. So I wasn't going to go anywhere to watch the fight. I was going to chill out with Bozeman because he wasn't feeling good yesterday. Aw. So he's better now.

Everything's okay with Bozeman. So I was going to stay here and I wasn't going to leave. But then, you know, it was like I couldn't order to fight here and I was kind of like, fuck Bozeman. Like, you know, you know, I got to go see the fight.

Wow. Logan Paul over Bozeman. Your own child. I went to, he's okay. I went to Tommies and we watched the fight via illegal stream. Oh. shoot.

Did you go Tommy's on Friday? You missed out. I was still in Houston. I didn't make it back till Saturday. It was fun as hell. It was fun as hell. We was all sitting around talking. It was like we were making fun of Tommy because he was white.

You know what I mean? It was all of us. It was basically like Tommy was like he was like a child dropped off in the middle of Ghana. It's at his house and he invited nothing but black people. He was like he was like. You know what I mean? But no, what was your reaction to the fight? What did you think?

I don't know if I was really expecting much. I didn't come in thinking Floyd was going to knock Logan out necessarily. I don't know. I don't know what I thought. But I was upset that there wasn't more fighting. I thought, you know, Logan did what he came to do, and that was to stand eight rounds. That's what he wanted to do, to survive all eight. he did that he used his weight to his advantage multiple times there was a lot of hugging there was a lot of laying on each other there was a lot of against the ropes I was so I mean Ocho Sinko fight was better it was the fight uh helped me realize something about myself I'm a I'm a messy bitch okay you do I watched that though I watched the fight let me tell you something okay to everyone

that watch the fight. Okay. All right. This fight has zero viability boxing. It's not a real competition. Logan Paul is 0 for one as a fighter

and the other guy that he fought was a YouTuber. Wait, wait, wait. Oh, the other guy he fought that he lost. Yeah, got you, got you, got you. He was a YouTuber, okay? Floyd Mayweather is 44 years old. Okay, but he has been boxing

since he was four years old. there is absolutely zero reason, zero reason to watch that fight. Except for one thing. You, just like me, you are messy, not you. I'm not calling you this because I'll go crazy. I'm saying, in general, people, we some messy bitches is what we are. We some messy bitches. We don't like nothing more than some mess.

That's what we've all become. So what do you think we were expecting? I don't know what. It doesn't matter. Because Floyd knocking Paul out wouldn't have been a mess. It doesn't matter what we were expecting. Whatever happened in the ring wasn't going to be nothing but some mess. Nah.

It's just a bunch of mess. It's not a real sporting. It's not. He didn't even look good. Like Logan didn't even look good. Like he didn't even look good. Like Jake gets in there and Jake looks like he can do his thing. Logan didn't even look good.

I guess it's hard to look good. against Floyd fucking Mayweather. But the whole thing, we just some messy, we just like mess. I'll be honest. If I had something else to do Saturday night, I wouldn't have watched it. I don't believe you.

I had nothing else to do. So it was like, why not? I get a chance to see Floyd. That's how I felt. But I'll tell you what was entertaining. What? Was Deisa Samarro. They're good.

And the guy who was with him. Morrow? Is that his name? Who? Talk about the regular announcer that does the showtime fights. He was hilarious. He's good. Really, that was my first time really paying attention to him.

I thought that I was thoroughly entertained by. By the way, Dezomero were there Friday night. You missed out. I'm disappointed. You missed, you missed out. I mean, I was in Houston. I bet you would have come if it was some mess. If I had told you, if I had told you, if I had told you that Nini Leaks and Candy Burrs was there.

I would have put that flight so fast. Housewives. No, I'm mad I missed it. But they were fantastic. I thoroughly enjoyed him. Yeah, the fight was a dud. And to be honest with you, I'm saying all of this, but it's okay. I'm a messy bitch.

I'm going to do the next one because Tyrone Woodley is fighting Jake Paul. I'm going to get that. I'm watch that fight. But they asked Floyd after the match, would he fight Jake? And he said, you never know what the future holds. I pray. I plead. Don't fight Jake, Paul.

He is. Don't do it. Please don't. Like, a part of me, I wanted to be entertained, and that's why I watch it. And fine, I'm messy, whatever. But I don't want to continue to give them these platforms. I didn't realize Logan Paul had one fight, and he lost it, and I did not know it was to a YouTuber, until I watched the match.

I just don't want to continue this narrative where we give these people platforms to make a mockery out of a sport that people spend their whole lives preparing for. Even if it is an exhibition game and it doesn't count towards, anything. I don't want to see it. It was great to see it once. It was fun to watch. I don't want to see it again. Not with somebody like Floyd. Now with the Floyd. Everything you're saying right now is a bunch of horse shit. No, I mean it. The next one's coming and you're going to watch that one too. I'm not watching. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not watching Jake Paul. Would you like to Floyd? Yes, you will.

I'll watch the fight in August. I'm not going to watch. I am not going to watch. Well, first of all, you just said you're going to watch the fight in August. So you might as well watch the next one too. You're going to watch it again. How about that? You know what? You're going to watch it. You're going to watch it, Rachel. Not unless Tommy is throwing a party and host it at his house. See what I'm saying?

That's what I was that Thomas yesterday. You're going to watch it. See, because I said I'm on my high horse, you know, because I like to get on my high horse sometimes. People know that my horse be high. You know what I'm saying? My horse is tall and he smokes marijuana. So he's high two different ways.

So I like to get on my high. So I'm like, yo man, I can't believe we look at. at this. But then I thought, I'm buying the next fight. I love boxing. I love boxing. I'm buying Jake Paul versus Tyron Woodley. And if Jake Paul beats Tyron Woodley, we'll have Tyron on here. I hope he can promote the fight before it comes on. If Jake Paul beats Tyrone Woodley, I'm definitely watching Jake Paul fight Floyd Mayweather. Because Jake Paul is a better boxer than his brother. And I'd like to see if it look different. I don't know what's going to have to happen to make me disinterested. But I'm not there yet. I'm a

messy bitch. For me, it was all that talk, like, all, like had the camera in front of Jake Paul. He is so annoying to me. Both of them, but he's worse. And I think it just showed, too, I don't want to see people fight in two different weight classes because he was able to use his weight as an advantage against Floyd.

And that was boring to watch. And the same thing would happen with Jake Paul. I don't want to see it. I don't want to see a 20-something-year-old fight a 40-something-year-old either. I mean, Floyd kept saying, this was fun, this was fun. I didn't come to watch fun. I came to watch some mess. Exactly.

I don't want to see that mess. I don't want to see you have fun. They do have to turn up the mess in the next fight, though. Yeah, all that stuff they were doing before, I don't want to, I didn't pay for that. Turn up the mess. We're messy. That's what we are, that's what we're going to have. That's going to be our first merch shirts that we get made for hiring money.

I'm a messy bitch. and everybody going to go, that's what I am. It's all, no other reason to watch it. I'm sorry. No other reason to watch it. All right.

So I saw something on the old Twitter sphere and I promise you guys that we're going to get to some serious topics here in a second because I know you guys like that but maybe we don't want to get to serious topics. Who knows? Did you see that

Jay Z. Meek Mill and Michael Rubin bought a brand new car for Robert Kraft? I did. The bottom of Bentley. The bottom of Bentley. For his birthday. 80?

80? I don't know. Who cares? Why does this annoy the shit out of me? Because it should. I don't know why. Is his birthday, his friends bought him a gift? This shit annoys the fuck out of me.

And I don't really understand. Why, am I a hater? I don't think I'm a hater. What would you be hating on? Why does it annoy you? What is it? Is it, is it Robert Kraft? Is it the fact that it was black men giving a white man, a Bentley,

that he can clearly afford himself? So it's kind of unnecessary? Is it the public display of it all? Is it that Meek Mill has given much less to more deserving? What is it? All the above. It's not even about me. It's just, we don't need to buy no Bentley's for Robert Kraft, man.

We just really don't. We don't need to buy no bent list for Robert Kraft. First of all, I'm not trying to even bring up old shit, but Robert Kraft is a Trump supporter that recently got jacked off by a prostitute in Florida. And for some reason, just like all other people who have the five foot thick steel walls, a hundred foot tall steel walls of white privilege around them, we still look at Robert Kraft as some cuddly guy. And I'm not saying he's not.

He might be. But he was the president's best friend to the point that the president was trying to get them to drop the spy gate probe for Robert Kraft. Correct. And everybody's still hanging out with Robert. I get it. I understand it. I don't know.

You do understand it? Why? Well, no. I understand that people have friends and some people are friends with Trump supporters. Some people to listen to us right now that have friends that are Trump supporters. I can't ask people to throw away their friends. But God damn, man, I'm just annoyed when it annoys me when black men run up behind white privilege, wealth, and power like this. It's just annoying to me, especially because these are the brothers.

Mick Mill is a good brother. obviously Jay-Z is a good, strong, powerful brother. Like, it just, it looks like, it looked like my Super Sweet 16 for a billionaire. It's annoying. I'm annoyed. It's the public display of it. And you didn't ask them to get rid of him as a friend. You asked for them not to do this.

And then to make it where everybody had to know what they did. I don't understand the purpose behind that. He wasn't in need of this. The man could go out and buy a hundred Bentley's for himself if he needed to. Yeah. It's probably not even going to. drive it. He's probably not. Well, it would be

interesting to hear why they felt they wanted to do this. And it's probably because they can. And they wanted to. And now what? I listened to the video. He said that he was having trouble finding the Bentley and they brought a Bentley that he, in some way, couldn't get it. Get out. I wish you wouldn't have shared that.

What's the next topic? He's like, it's just annoyed me. It should. And when I saw it, it was like Jay-Z, Meek Mill, and Michael Rubin, buy Bentley for for Robert Kraft. I'm like, why? Why?

Why? Why? Why? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. But look, shout out to Robert Kraft. Happy birthday. It's their friend.

It's his birthday. They can do whatever they want. They can. But it doesn't mean that we can't critique it. Look, I'm not, I'm a emotional bitch is what I am. I'm messy and I'm emotional. Bitches are flying today, aren't they? Dad.

That's so great. The bitches are flying. That sounds. That sounds like too short renting a jet. The bitches are flying. That's like the actual two short soul. Oh, did you see the, um, put this picture up for people that are watching. This is a picture of a girl.

Her name is Layla. she's suiting these she's a mom of one and she is she was dressed in her Burger King outfit she works at Burger King and she's a biochemistry student

she works at Burger King and she happy to be working at Burger King when let's face it, her thing was stanging okay like her it looked like it looked like her butt was running from her jeans

it was trying to get out of her jeans so much. It was. And so, and apparently there was a woman that was in the Burger King who said that Layla was distracting her husband with her butt. Put the picture up right now. Do you think that that's distracting? Do you think that Layla, you don't think it's distracting? No. You wouldn't see that and be like, God damn. Not even like a little one. I see it every day. Where do you see it every day. Where do you see it? You see it in yourself? Whoa.

Whoa. Don't do me. Don't do me. I'm not doing. I'm not. I'm not doing. I'm definitely not about to get me out of here. I'm not about to Chris Harris and myself. It was too easy. It was too easy. I'd be in the soup kitchen next. Just didn't hear what you're saying about me.

It'll be me and Chris Harrison texting each other like, I know I shouldn't have got down with her. But go ahead. No, it wasn't distracting. The woman is out here trying to do her job, and you got this woman coming here causing a mess, causing a scene to her workplace. Listen, whoever this woman is,

if you're worried about the woman behind the counter at Burger King, you got a whole lot more problems to worry about it. I don't know if I should feel sorry for her or just tell her to get out of whatever situation she's in, that people can't work in their place. of employment have assets and it's a problem like just natural born assets and that's a problem for your husband you need to leave him at home so when you said that are you saying that because you think that men won't have sex with the girls that work at Burger King because they will how did you

even get that don't listen I know you're on this messy bitch kick but but nothing I said hashtag messy bitch. Nothing I said even alluded to that. I know. It is weird that this woman was so pressed about this. It's so funny. It must have happened before. Yes, it's funny. It's ridiculous.

It must have happened before. Maybe not at a Burger King. Maybe at another fast food place. But she's been here before for her to react like that. Maybe she came home and saw her husband with somebody. Maybe she's had to role play. I'm not quite sure. There's something. There's something

Baby, baby, I want you to dress up like a chick-fil-A girl tonight. Every time I give you one, I want you to say, my pleasure. Is that what they say. That's what they say in Chick-fil-A. It's so crazy to me. Like, hey, could I have, never even know-old. It's like, hey, could I have eight-count nuggets?

My pleasure. I'm like, God, damn. I'm going to go through a Chick-fil-A just to see if they say that. They 100% will say, my pleasure. They say that every time. It's almost like you've never been to Chick-fil-A before. I guess I don't pay attention. I just make sure they got my order right.

My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. And in the uniforms. But she obviously came out. Layla put this out there. The story's gone everywhere. She was like, what am I supposed to do?

Like not bring my ass to work with me? They need to give her a promotion. Give her a promotion. Put her in an office. Let her manage so she don't have to do all that. She's bringing a lot of attention to Burger King. I think they should make her the supervisor of the buns. That would be like the best.

What? That way they can play into it. We've made Layla the supervisor of buns at Burger King. There is a commercial in her future. There's something there for her. Oh, yeah. Yeah. If Burger King wants to lean into this,

if Burger King wants to be on the wrong side of history and make this girl feel bad, because my brother thinks this is cap. He thinks this never happened. He thinks she's just using this for the internet thing. Isn't that sad that's because of the world we live in and people just trying to get viral over social media? You have to question that.

Also, also, did Burger King change their uniforms? Why? Didn't it look different to you? The top or the bottom? The bottom was just jeans. The bottom is jeans and she's wearing a visor and then the Burger King shirt. It looks like they had like a Reef-I don't know. I don't eat a Burger King, but the uniforms just look different to me.

You don't like sometimes me and Kalee would split a whopper. I don't need a burger king. You don't really do that when you have Waterburger. You know what I mean? Waterburger. fucking sucks. If Waterburger was in Louisiana, not true.

You would think you would say it in a different way. They do have Waterburger in Louisiana. It didn't start there. And when Waterburger came to Louisiana, everybody acted like it was a big deal that Waterburger was coming to Louisiana. And then I tried the Waterburger and it's fucking terrible. You know, I've tried to say a Chargoy World Burger.

I said the same thing actually about raising Keynes when it came to Texas. That's fine. And that nasty ass cane sauce. It's whatever. You can say that if you want. That's your taste. But I can tell you one thing, whether or not Raising Keynes is good,

coming from Baton Rouge or whether or not Raising Keynes is bad, it's not going to change the fact that Waterburger is trash. Okay. You're out there. Hey, right now, Raising Keynes, Waterburger, put up a pole. Which is better. And you know Waterburger. So don't get upset.

Chicken tenders to a burger. Waterburger can't even afford ketchup. They wouldn't even put no ketchup on a burger. Raising Keynes. Waterburger sucks. Which one? And by the way, their whole gimmick is played too.

It's like, could I have a water burger. He's trying to convince y'all. What a shake. Everybody just fast forward 30 seconds. Don't do this. Waterburger sucks. Lemonade is the most popping thing.

Is lemonade I get? No, wait, that's Chick-fil-A. I'm messing that up. It's the bread. It's the bread. It's the bread. The bread is good. I ain't going to lie.

You know what the bread is not good? Waterburger. Actually, that's not true. They have Texas. toast and is really good. Fuck, what a burger. All right. Guys, we got a very, very amazing interview with a fantastic guest for you right now.

Host of the Renaissance Man podcast, Jalen Rose, former NBA player, philanthropist, the guys open schools. He is a media personality on ESPN. He does so much, and he is going to tell you how he does it all right now. This episode is brought to you by Westwood. WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or road trip goes sideways. Ketchup goes rogue ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech

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Higher learning crew, we have one of the one of the biggest success stories, I would say, in all of sports. A guy that if you know anything about him, it's hard not to love them. The accolades, I mean, we're talking about

on the basketball court, part of the Fab Five, successful NBA career, all of that. But then off the court, he's starting schools for people. He is, involved in his community and he is showing us what is like to be a cool brother on television, man. Please, please help us welcome Jalen Rose to hire learning today. Jalen Rose, man.

It's an honor to be here. Hi, Rachel. What up, Dovan. I appreciate the love. I definitely appreciate you taking the time to join the Renaissance man when I first kicked that off. And I definitely appreciate you guys having me on. So let's start right there, Renaissance, man, which is a good way to describe you. Everybody knew Jalen Rose from basketball for so long, you know. You guys were legends, the Fab Five, changed basketball forever, some of the most influential basketball players of all time. But then when you finished playing, had a very good career, you started to show all kinds of dimensions to yourself that people may have not known about when you were playing. Was that something that you did purposely?

Did you want to show the world that you were more than a basketball player? Because a lot of guys just, they drink the hand for the rest of their life and they spend them in the NBA checks. Well, what was different for you? I did. And in high school and beyond, I took pride in my academics too. So I never wanted to be considered a dumb job. And I once heard this from my uncle.

Paramore, rest in peace. He was like, it's one thing to be a Negro, it's another thing to be a big, dumb Negro. You see what I'm saying? And I always took pride in, yes, I wanted to be great at basketball. I played my entire life, my father, who I never met was the number one pick in the draft in 1967. So basketball was always in my blood. But I did. But I did. I didn't. You know, did take school seriously. I did make the honor roll in high school. I did make the dean's list while at the university in Michigan. I left after my junior year. I did go back and finish my degree. You know, and so like, and radio TV film was my major at school. So it's almost like I'm one of the people in the country that actually has a job in a field that they majored in in college.

Can I ask you one follow up? And I want to make sure I get to. this. You never met your father, yet you have such pride in him. I hear you say that all the time. You never met your dad, but he was the number one pick in the draft. And I hear that, I hear you bring that up all the time. Like really, I learned about who he was through you talking about him being your dad and big up him. Explain to me what it's like to really have that sort of pride and that sort of for a guy that you never met. So we're about to go higher learning for real. So like that's 48-year-old me talking.

That's maturation. That's years of growing up in a single parent home, feeling like I was abandoned by my father who was famous. And imagine being a kid that was like going to hoop and carrying around your father's basketball. car and you never met him. Like that was my childhood and I always um I always took it personal that I felt like he was in the NBA and he he was living an amazing lifestyle, but I was boiling water to wash up and, you know, eating manned sandwiches and popcorn for dinner and stuff like

that. So when I was a younger player, I wore number 42 in high school. his number was 24. So I did it out of spite. It was like, he going to know my name one day. I'm going to make it to the league one day. I'm going to be better than you one day. I'm going to buy my mother the house and get us out of the hood because you did. So like, that was always my motivation.

And I really didn't have the stance or even started talking about it until like my MBA career was, you know, like 75%. over. I never, if you look back in when I played, I never talked about my father in college. I never talked about him in Denver. I never talked about him in Indiana. I never talked about him in Chicago. Just later in my career, as I started to appreciate his role in my life, I had to find a way to let that anger go and also be a vessel to other young brothers and other young people that have broken families or grow up in broken homes and sometimes you get that anger,

you get that pain and you never forgive. And in a lot of ways, it becomes volatile. It can becomes hurtful in so many ways to you in particular. So this is just a mature version of me understanding that I got my basketball jeans from him. He did, like, there was a time, when I was in the league and I was just standing on the sideline, Clyde Frazier came over to me and said, what's up?

I'm like, Clive Frazier said, what's up to me? Like, they were in the same draft. And they knew I never met my father. So, like, the elder statesman in the league when I would see them, like the Big O and Earl of Pearl Monroe and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Bill Russell, like, they would give me love and give me confidence. And one of his teammates, Dave Bing, one of the top 50 players of all times,

with my college. I worked at being still while I was in high school, and Dave and I flew to his funeral together in the late mid-the-late 2000s, and it was one of the most eerie scenes ever because he allegedly had 13 kids by 11 women. And it probably was maybe 30 total people there. Damn. It was like an eerie, like, you know, wake up call for me as a man and as a human being about like, what do I want my future? What do I want my legacy beyond how well I played basketball to look like? And I retired that summer and started working at ESPN. I had a couple of opportunities to go play a couple other places.

I retired that summer and started working at ESPN. You talk about when you made that change into the relationship with your father and how you saw things and all of that. But I'm very curious as to how you did it, like what steps you took to make that change for the person who's listening to this. And then also a second part to the question, do you feel a level of responsibility to mentor, these younger athletes to do more than just be an athlete and to do more off the core, because you're definitely a person who doesn't just talk to talk. You walk the walk as well. You must do more than just your sport or your endeavor or your day job because more is required. Like in order for us to like go after the reparations we deserve, it has to be each one,

teach one. That's just where they got to be. The people that's trying to muzzle us and tell us to shut up and dribble or stick to sports, because they understand the power that we have in our community. And when we say, let's get out and vote because it's serious, you saw how they voted in Wayne County in Detroit. And you saw what happened with the WNBA team in Atlanta and how they helped flip that election. And what happened in Wisconsin, that the Milwaukee Bucks decided not to play.

Like, the real change can happen. Like, one of the most famous and iconic sporting pitchers, is the Ali summit. Like, if it wasn't even an act of sporting event, it was him protesting the fact that he was not going to go into the military. And so when you have Jim Brown and he there and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar there and Bill Russell there, it's like it shows the power of our platform and the power of athletes.

As it relates to mentoring other young people, absolutely. We have to do that. We should do that. It's our purpose. And just because you're a professional or your success story, it doesn't mean that you didn't have to overcome a lot of turbulence. Like one of my favorite quotes is like from Rocky is like, I'm going, I know I'm going to butcher it, but it's like the world is a mean, the world is a mean and evil place and it'll beat you to your knees and keep you there if you let it. And it's like, it's not how hard you can hit. It's how hard you can get hit and keep on going. Like that's real. Like that right there is real. You can say you want one job forever. That's unrealistic. You can say you want one career path, one boyfriend, one whatever, like one girlfriend. All that's unrealistic. We're going to each hit peaks in valleys. And so how you navigate that turbulence is now going to create your happiness and then in turn hopefully create your success or put you in a position to chase your goals. Why don't you feel like, well, hold on. I'm not going to say you don't feel like this.

I feel like this. You just touched on something down in Atlanta with the WNBA team down there. The ladies, the women of the WNBA have been as active, as outspoken, have taken as many chances, have done as much work going back years, years all over the place in Minnesota and a lot. Atlanta all over the place. But to me, it doesn't seem like the ladies in the WNBA get the same type of credit that they do, that the NBA guys do for being on the forefront of some of the social

change and some of the things that we've seen. I know who Reverend Warnock is. Correct. Because of them. Me too. They got me on that. And that's a big, big thing. Why don't you feel like they get as much credit as some of the fellas do?

Well, a couple of things. For a very long time, so many people wanted to minimize their sport, partly because it's just a misogynistic viewpoint of how people felt like basketball should look. And just there is a segment of the population in particular men that stupidly walk around right now and think that they can, you know, score 25 points against Brianna Stewart. Like those guys actually exist. But what ends up happening is when your league, is 81% black. Also, that level of power that you're able to wield when you say, we're going to put Brianna Taylor's name on the back of each of our jerseys. Like the NBA players had 29 separate messages. They had one message. So when you unify like a fist and you can move as one, now you cover more ground and you get more done. And that's exactly what they've done. They continue to be outspoken. And the reward happened is because now they're on ABC playing games.

They're on ESPN playing games. Their ratings are up. The enthusiasm for the game is up. Rest of peace to Kobe Bryant. He was one of the people to help springboard the enthusiasm for the rebirth of the WNBA and people rocking the hoodies and stuff. And so it was just a minimalistic view. of their leave and of black women,

not trying necessarily give them their props for truly like being the backbone of our community. Speaking of games, one of the topics that we've seen a lot lately that's been in sports news are the fans. Now, it's not new that the fans have this type of behavior where they're taunting or doing absolutely ridiculous things to the players on the court,

but it's been getting a lot of attention. I'm curious from you, how do you think the NBA should handle unruly fans? It's definitely racially charged and racially motivated, and I'm going to get to exactly why. I think the NBA in each of those arenas should make sure that those patrons should be banned from all events, not just NBA games, I mean from concerts, from all events. And when you're sitting in the second row and you're spitting over 50 cent onto Trey Young, you notice, that you're only looking at the camera view of that person's chest. But when it's Charles Oakley being thrown around by security, we see a hundred different English. Why we can't see who it is.

That's my problem. It's almost like when we talk about police reform, it's one of the things that really disappoint me to most is that they seem to falsify the reports a lot. And to me, that right there should disqualify anything that you have to say after that. That's, and so, like, it's, it's, what was, what, would you ask me again? About the fans.

About the, how they should handle it. Okay, cool. You know, storyteller, we walk out on the lens. Oh, I know. You hit it. You hit it. But, you know, it happens to me all the time. I don't know if they pick it up in the podcast.

I listen to it. I'd be like, yo, I forgot what I was talking about. And so what ends up happening, first off, the league should do that. Make sure those fans are banned for all sporting events, all events, concerts, everything that may happen in any of those arenas. But here's the deeper rooted issue. I grew up playing basketball in Detroit Public Schools. And what happens is it's kind of like the transformation of HBCUs to major universities.

The best black players in the 60s went to HBCUs. But then the influx of cash came from the colleges and universities. And then that's when players like myself ended up going to the major school. Right. And so playing in the Detroit Public School in front of all black fans, the audience is a little different than you now see in the professional ranks. It's predominantly black players on the court, predominantly white, but people in the stands. And why do I do that distinction?

When our rivals got mad at me in high school, right? They'll be like, you know what? We're going to see you at the mall or we're going to see you on the block or we're going to see you, whatever, whatever. And, you know, majority of the time it would just talk because you was like, oh, like you ain't about that life. Like I'm an athlete. I ain't about that life.

You know, they just talk. And they're trying to do whatever to make me choke. And so, like, my team will lose. Like, they're not really trying to, like, do harm to me. But also, if I do some great moves, they like ooh and on, right? Because they respect the game. So when you get to college, it's more of a business relationship with the audience. It's like most of these people have families that have had these tickets forever.

You know, the term fan gets used like, you know, it's the kid from the hood, is paying $5 and his father taking them to the game. Like that's not how it works. It's corporations and businesses that own these tickets. And what ends up happening is there's a level of disrespect towards the athletes because sometimes they forget while we were brought to the United States to entertain and to be labor, sometimes while we're performing, we're still human beings. We're not robots.

And so now you spit on me during the game. Tray Young, quality young man, decided not to press charges. Right. He decided not to press charges. Russell Westbrook, he's walking to the locker room with an injured ankle. Throw popcorn on him. I'm going to get to the racial part of this in the moment. John Morant in his family, in Utah at again, the jazz.

You could Google some of the stuff they was basically saying to them. It's like some bojangle type stuff they were saying to them. right? Like we're there for entertainment. We're there to Shuck and John, right? And so what ends up happening is when you disagree with me or you get mad at me, it's easy for you to disrespect me because you never respected me anyway. And I would say that they're treating us like zoo animals, but they don't throw popcorn at them. They don't throw popcorn at them. Yeah. I can't even say that. Right. No, you're right. There's a guy named Howard. Bryant had a very interesting tweet.

Howard Bryant, I'm sure you know who Howard Bryant is, had a very interesting tweet. It's interesting because it goes back to one of the quintessential Jalen Rose moments that happened off the court, which was the entire running argument or conversation that you had with Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless early last decade about the position in the media of,

of the analyst versus, I guess, just the commentator. Now, that was about specific something to be happening between you and Skip. I remember you talking about your qualifications then. I wonder what you think about this. He has a picture up. It's of Rachel Nichols, Richard Jefferson, Kendrick Perkins, and Brian Winhorse. And his tweet was this. The formula that looks like diversity, but is actually killing black journalism.

White woman host, white male journalists, two black. Millionaire X players. In addition to having to compete against their colleagues, black journalists are now competing against ex-athletes as well. And I thought that was something, obviously, that is a very intelligent, unbelievably talented man. I thought that was a really interesting tweet because I am coming from a different side than you are, right?

I didn't make it to the NBA, and it's basically because they was hating on me, but whatever. I didn't make it. That's what Kim Baylor said too. Boom. There you go. Did you have this 1.5 as a junior? We're not going to go back over.

We're not going to go back over. We're not going to go back over it. I'm sure everybody's cool now. Jess, what do you think of that? What do you think of that tweet? So I'm an educator. I'm a founder of a school. And I'm also.

a graduate myself. And one of the things I wanted to do as a black man growing up in the United States of America, and I say this wholeheartedly in all honesty, like pick this game up that I'm dropping. I wanted to get as many accolades behind my name that if you closed your eyes and if it was a 55 plus year old white man and that's what they consider like being high self-esteem, I was going to do those things. For example, get a college degree. I'm going to make sure I have that. Best selling author, I'm going to make sure I do that. Columnist, I'm going to make sure I do that. Philanthropist. And the beauty of that is these are all extensions of my passion. So I don't

necessarily have to like get out of character to do things in radio TV film. Like you can see me in college. I was always outspoken and I was always a trash talker, but I was always somebody that was really measured and paid attention to the game. And so for me now being a part of the industry, it's like my favorite rap. Like say growing up, I listened to all type of rap. But if I'm going to have an audience listen to me, I need to be more Chuck D. I need to be more care. I need to be more care risk one. I need to be more Nas. I need to be more Jay Cole because I want to make sure that

I have the opportunity to feed the audience but also inspire my people. Like that's truly important to me. And so that's why the show Jalen and Jacoby going from being a podcast and a radio show to now being on TV, like that was monumental for the culture. Yeah.

Like when we first started that show, like, people had bobble heads up and like sports illustrated models behind them. I came in and big shout to the power father of Bill Simmons. Yeah. What up? Yeah. And he was just like, do your thing. I was like, bet.

So I brought this picture of Jay Z that I had at the house. Big Dookie rope on. He had the gold tooth in his mouth. He had the flat top that looked uncomfortable. But like he ain't had it cut. And now you look at who he is. And by the way, come full circle. I'm signed to Rock Nation.

Oh, I didn't know that. Just think about this for a second. I use Jay-Z as my first picture of inspiration in J&J studio. We got on ESPN news. The photographer saw the picture, sued ESPN, and they made me take it out. And I go full circle in the media game to tell you this. what ends up happening is we got to continue to make sure we have creativity.

That's that's the whole thing. Like anybody can look at a stat sheet and say somebody had 25 points, 11 rebals, but the E is for entertainment. You know what I'm saying? And I'm sitting here thinking, man, man, I might go do some stand-up comedy. Like this is what I do. Right. But what also has happened is we start to now compete in a global market in an international market as well.

So like the, I can say this in reverse. Television personalities now have to compete with former writers for a job once the newspaper industry started to be defunned. A lot of those people, you know, were writers at the time. They weren't necessary TV personalities. But here's the overarching point. I don't care what your background is or how many years you played or how many is you didn't play.

I'm not one of those people to feel like, oh, you can't cover the game if you don't have 10 championships. Like, that don't make sense. Like, that's just like saying, um, Rachel shouldn't cover the NFL because she never played football. Like, that's just, that's actually ignorant.

Like, anybody that's read and studied and pays attention to the game, it covers the game and garners respect from the people that they cover and are knowledgeable about what they talk about, that's how you gain respect in the game. But what you're talking about and what Harold was also talking about is more like a positioning. And here's what ends up happening.

Football and basketball are primarily black sports. So usually if you want to reflect the voices of the people that are still participating, See, when you see me talking on NBA countdown, I'm saying what the players will be saying. Right. Yeah. I'm saying what the former players are seeing.

Right. I'm not necessarily saying with, you know, a beat writer or somebody. Yeah, I understand. Yeah, right. I speak, I'm speaking the lingo that they would speak if they were in that position. So what ends up happening is in football and basketball, those now become black former players that are analysts.

Yeah. If you're a nationally syndicated show, you're going to have topics that come up that are about black and white. Right. Right. And then there's also sometimes a fear of making it look too black. Right. Right.

And so what ends up happening is what you're describing becomes the balance that people like he can see and the people like we can see because we kind of been black our whole lot. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Jalen, on a podcast recently, you were talking about, and this is kind of piggybacking on what you were just saying, you were talking about a video of you debating Skip Bayless, and you talked about Russell Westbrook, and then the next day that you brought on Stephen A. Smith, and I'm paraphrasing here, but you said those two days of debate,

and this was on first take, change the landscape of the industry in a lot of ways. Can you talk about what you mean by that? Yes, it did. If, like, if you Google some of the highest salary, multimedia personalities, and or if people, like, were to put together their favorite or what they consider the best type list, what ends up happening is some of that behavior, a lot of that behavior in many people's views, and in particular a guy like Kwame Brown, he now looks at that journey and feel like, man, were they rewarded off of my pain?

And that's kind of what he's discussing. And that debate, and I love Stephen A. Skip still haven't talked to me to be honest since that debate, but it's still, it's all love. Wait, what? By the way, just, I don't mean to cut you off, Jalen, but I'm going to be honest with you. I watch that all the time because I do.

I seriously do because number one, I watched it when it was live. And people don't understand is that just wasn't one show. That was one show, then two shows. And then they held a whole week. Ryan Clark was talking about it. Marcellus Wiley was talking about it. They, like, did a whole week on how ESPN, the way that they talk about people. So, and I thought that you and Skip were cool after that, but you guys really never got cool again.

Well, rest of peace to Genie Rose. I lost my mother February 2nd of this year. And I think I lost a lot more of my filter about certain stuff too. Right. So I'm probably now saying things that I wouldn't normally say. Right.

And I don't care. But what ended up happening with that is, like, I'm read and see, when you get into the game, like any multimedia personality or journalists that you see, whatever education, or whatever training that they took, I took two. It just so happened and I accomplished all of the other things that I accomplished as well.

Right. Right. And so in a situation like that, I'm trying to highlight the fact that, and by the way, on Jay and Jacoby, I've retired a lot of words. I'm going to do a couple of YouTube videos. I've been thinking about it. It would really be smart.

and I think it'll help my people, our people. One is wife beater. We retired out one. Swag for obvious reasons. There was another one. Bus. But what ended up happening during that debate is name calling. So there's a difference between having an opinion about what you see

and having an entertaining, you know, way to describe what you saw. Like, that's why you get paid to big bucks. That's why we're on TV. You should be entertaining. You should be funny. I crack jokes on people all of the time, right? And so, but I try not to call people a name. And here's when you know that you've taken it too far,

fans or supporters or media members, either the curse words you use or if you call somebody a name. And Carus One is one of my favorite rappers. And I remember him saying he always keep a disc track for everybody in the top 10 in case somebody come for him. A lot of people don't realize when I talked about Skip's high school career, like, I was sitting on that for months. I didn't just find out that like the night before. It's like it was going to be a medium, you know, clapback. Is it a jab?

Is it a body blow? Is it a headshot? Is it a kill shot? Like, that's, it's a debate show, right? Right. In my mind, I got to be ready for whatever happens at all time. And I realized that he was calling Chris Bosch Spice. Bosch, spice.

And I was like, hold on. Bosch, Price, Prince James. There was a lot of them. Yes, yes, yes. And I knew that that was inappropriate. and I was there to challenge him on it. And I did that with Russell. I did that with them and Kwame.

And it was best professionally. I wasn't quote unquote banned from the show. Right. But after that day, I did not get asked to come back on. And I did not want to go back on. So it was like mutual. It was just like best for the parties involved at the time. So like the next three or four years after that debate,

I didn't go back on the show until he left. You know, and I'm not going to, but the interesting thing about that as me, as I used to watch, and things have changed. I used to watch it all the time, right? And these things never occurred to me, to be honest with you. I was to the point, now I know a lot of guys in the league now, and I know now how they deal with some of this stuff.

And some of it, it bothers some of these guys. Like it bothers them. But I thought it was all the same kind of like par for the course. But when you got it, Skip, about his stats, I saw it on his face. And then the entire next day, that was a day that made me want to be on TV even more. Because the entire next day, Skip is saying, I thought you got personal. I thought you didn't know the full story. And I'm like, do you know how many guys I know?

I made a joke earlier. Do you know how many guys I know right now that'll tell you that they should have easily gone to the NBA except for it was one coach or one scout or one guy at one camp that didn't like them? And everybody feels that way. But I really feel like now, especially with some of the stuff that Kwame's been saying, that that conversation about how we talk about each other in the media, is being brought back up.

What is the line to you? You said the name calling, but is it, what to you is name calling, is what to you is name calling to say bus? Is it name calling to say, is disappointment name calling? Like, what's name calling?

Right, so, and I think what's this baby boy, ain't no fun when the rabbit got the gun. When the rabbit got the gun, yeah. Right. And so the media game has changed a lot. You youngsters out there can Google whatever and find out whatever and not have a real barbershop debate, y'all get to the answer.

Like, we actually have to debate it forever and never get to the answer. And so I actually had to do some digging to find out that information about Skip because he was playing in the 60s. Just think about that. He played in the 60s, man. You know what I said? I had to scoured. You had to use microfilm.

Yeah. And go ahead. Because what ended up happening in it, and that's what happens in the battle, is like you catch on to something they said. And I hung on to him saying that the coach was the reason that he didn't get playing time. And he said that, you know, his game reminded him of his game,

his coach said he played too much like Pistol Pete. And I was like, okay. So that's what I. See, that's when I put the fully in the tuck right there. Right. But, but like, it's, it's an opportunity to enlighten, and it's an opportunity to entertain when you're a member of the media. But you can also educate in your own way.

And that's what I try to do. And by the way, that's, you know how hard. Y'all know. Like, that's like five different jobs happening at once. Yeah. You have to know what's happening. You have to know everything about everybody. that's happening. It's like 500 people here. I got to remember everything about them since they

were born. You can't mess up a name. You can't mess up a stat. You can't mess up when they went to high school. Can't make up their nickname and da-da-da-da. But then also you got to flip and have flavor and player and personality and educate. And so that's what I try to do with the opportunities that I've been given, but also be funny. And you said it. Like, players, are smarter now than ever. They're more informed than ever. See, before it was like, if somebody wrote something about you in the paper

or said it on the local news, it ain't like everybody and your family saw it. Like, now it's like, everybody see it. You got family members commenting on stuff, and it's like you can't ignore it, and you can't act like you're ignoring it. And if somebody is doing more than talking about my performance,

they're now damaging my brand. Right. Right. There are people that I want to pay me to come be, do autographs, signings and do card signs and sign a shoe deal and stuff like that. But when you give me a tag or a label, like those things stick. And so I think the number one thing you have to do is earn the respect of the audience. Like it's like being a stand-up comedian.

You can be the funniest person in the world, but you go up on the stage and you're telling jokes that they don't understand, it don't matter. Right? So, like, if you're going to be talking about other professional human beings who are at lead at what they do, then you got to come correct and be knowing what you're talking about. Speaking of respect, you just made some comments about LeBron James. So, you know, about his play in game five and game six.

And, you know, you compared it to Jordan and said Jordan wouldn't do that. Do you think you lost some? respect for LeBron James and how he handled game five and six. And do you think the playoffs will be exciting without him moving forward? Not at all. Let me tell you all secret. He was tired. Yeah, he was.

Homie was tired. He could say whatever he want to say. He asked out of the game. Yeah. They had 71 days between the end of last season to the end of this season. The man's 36 years of age. And he's in his 18th year. And he looked over and his homies down, like,

my Robin is down now? He's like, man, let me put this thing in fifth gear. Like in game four at the end of the game, like the last minute and a half, he's like, here you go, Caruso, here y'all move that thing. And then boom, he tried to throw a lazy pass to Margussoe and CP3 stole it. And then in game five, they got waxed.

Yeah. All right? And so in the third quarter, he like, is five minutes to go and C.D. this is what I mean, homie was tired. He thought he was going into the locker room with five minutes to go to turn into Superman in game six. He wasn't just like, he knew what he was doing.

Like, he was doing the LeBron thing. Like, yeah, I know everybody going to have something to say about me leaving right now, but I'm about to get this hyperbaric chamber going a little bit earlier. I'm about to get this ice going a little bit earlier. I'm about to get this bottle of wine going a little bit earlier and go to sleep

these couple of nights, like I'm going to destroy in the next game. And it just didn't happen. Right. Yeah. So when I say MJ wouldn't do something, here's in particular what I was describing, asked to come out of the game. That's what I'm talking about. MJ ain't win 13 championships.

I never seen them asked to come out of the game. See, I played against both of them. And I love this. debate. And I feel like is MJ Corrine, by the way, who gets overlooked in this debate. And because the social and political beliefs, the media dismissed him for so very

long. It didn't uplift his actual productivity. With that being said, that in particular is what I was describing. Never asked out of the game. Gotcha. So I got two basketball questions for you. By the way, you guys, the

podcast, it's the Renaissance Man podcast, Jaylon Rose, is a fantastic. podcast. He had a great guest on there one day. The guy's name was I knew it. I know. He was fantastic. Come on. Come on with the next question. Come on. Don't waste his fans time. One question is hypothetical. And then the other question

is very, very real. Stephen A. Smith said that LeBron James' championship window was closed. No. You don't think it is. No. No. Here's why. Like, every five, like the greatest

players in the NBA win all of the championships. Like the Lakers and the Celtics have 50% of all of the championships and basically 50% of all of the Hall of Famers. Like the best players and the best organizations win in the league. And so now you have a story franchise, the Lakers. You still have LeBron. You still have AD. Now they still got to figure some stuff out now.

What's going to happen with Schrooter? anytime magic comes out and say you, you're not an ideal Laker, that ain't good. Not bad. I'm trying to give you $80 million when you didn't take it. Like, that ain't good. And then Montrez-Herald came over for a one-year experiment, possibly I think he has a player option for next year.

He got to decide if he's going to opt in or opt out. I think those two players along with Kyle Kuzma would be like the three-car Monte type of figures that you hear their names thrown around or trying to figure out if they're going to sign a trade or stay or whatnot. But every five to seven years, a unique champion jumps up and wins it in the league. Like Dirk did when he was with the Mavs, playing with Deshaun Stevenson and Jason Terry and an older Jason kid and they won the championship.

That's how I look at this year. Of the teams still playing in the playoffs, the only two teams that have won championship, championships in the history of their franchises were because they had Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on the bucks and because they had Dr. J on the Sixers. The other teams have not won a championship in the history of the franchise. So we probably about to get a new champion, new blood and all of that. And so the reason why his championship window ain't closed, he about to recharge the battery now.

It's going to be tunes and goons. He's going to be y'all gonna look up and he gonna be shirt off in the gym working out with his son running mountains and like really because he like when lebron was healthy this year he was still balling yeah he was the man he was an MVP conversation and so now i i don't i believe that he got a nice like strong like two more seasons to like see if he can like go back to back type of thing if they really up for it. Would you trade AD straight up for Damian Lillard if you were the Lakers? I would. And by the way,

like Jay Williams, shout to him and Maria Taylor and my guy Wolde on NBA countdown. He asked me this question. And the one thing I've always said about Anthony Davis is that he was a top 10 player. But the one thing I always say it about Dame is like he was hovering around being a top five player.

And the difference between those two is one was in New Orleans, one was in Portland, but while Dane was in Portland, he's still leading his team to the playoffs every year without a second consistent All-Star. Like, A.D. didn't have a second consistent All-Star in theory until Drew Holiday start to improve. But then there was at some point in his career where he decided, you know what, I can't get it done here. So I'm about where LeBron hooping at? Right. I'm about to have Rich Hall.

Like, yo, it's all. That's all folks. He wore the shirt to the game and everything. Right. And so I believe that the Lakers championship window with LeBron isn't closed just yet. All right. Last question for me. Who are you excited for in the league?

Like who excites you? So, like, I'm really excited to watch the Joker from Denver play. I voted for him to be MVP this year. And I'm going to just tell you someone what I consider unusual or looks different to me, because I've been staring at this stuff since the late 70s, right? What looks unique and different to me is like the Joker initiating offense as a seven foot, 270 pound guy shooting threes off one leg. Yeah.

Like I had never seen anything like that before. Like he's at he, in the last series, he average like 35 and we like, it's like, we don't even talk about it no more. It's like easy, like he's about to torch the sons. I feel bad for Aiton. Oh, man, he ain't got two files right now. He got two files. When you watch the game, Jalen told me, are these seven games,

he got two files and three of them. And his backup is Frank Kaminsky and Dario Sarge. Good luck with that. And another player, Luca, like usually a guy his size right you could put a bigger guy on him so you could even put like a morris on him or you can put a kawai on him and slow him down like we're talking about kawai slow down luka yesterday right he had 46 and 14 yeah like like walking apart step back shoot three like oh we down 10 two threes bang.

Yeah. And he's just too big for guards. Like Patrick Beverly used to be considered a lockdown defender. The chess move that happened in the Clippers game is that they put him on the bench. Yeah. Because he couldn't guard Luca at all. I tweeted that white supremacy is whenever Luca switches on a Patrick Trevor. It was bad, man.

But look, Pat, Pat did all he could, but that boy just something else, man. What else is special to me? oh, Kyrie's left hand need his own league pass channel. Like that new left hand between the, like I always wondered what Harlem Globetrotters

would look like if they played in the NBA like Curley Neal and Marcus Haynes. I get that with Steph Curry and I get that with Kyrie Irving. They like Harlem Globetrotters playing in the league putting on the show. Kevin Durant. Yeah.

He's back from injury. I need to say. see, like, he left the Warriors. Yeah. Kevin Durant left playing with Splash Brothers. Yeah. Like, so you go to the Nets, he's like, I'm trying to win it all. So he's a terrific score.

So it's so many excitable players in the league. You know, I just need my pistons to get it right, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Get it right. So this is my last question. This is the hypothetical I was talking to you about. This is a question I'd like to ask retire players.

Okay. Okay. I actually asked JJ Redick this a couple of nights ago, and he didn't have a response. Is there one Hall of Famer? I asked JJ this. Is there a Hall of Famer that was inducted into the Hall of Fame after 1985 that you feel like you could beat one-on-one? I love asking this question, like a Hall of Famer that like just for whatever reason, you'd be like, He's a Hall of Famer, but you know, I got him. You know what I mean?

Tell you a secret. So like, there are a lot of Hall of Famers. I feel like I could beat him. Like, for real, for real. Because, like, 101 has a lot to do with the strength of your game. It's just ones, yeah. Right. And so I was a tall guard and I could play with my back to the basket.

Right. So like I'm going to score points. Right. So if it's, if it's making it take it, like, and I get hot, I'm going to score on a lot of people. Like, how about this? I bet every Hall of Famer that I played against in my career, I had a 30 point game against them. Let me think. Trudy, check the stats.

Yeah, Trudy, you got this. Yeah, I played against LeBron. I played against LeBron. Now, Kobe torched me. Shout to the Black Mamba. I just had to say Kobe torch me for 81. I love Kobe. I miss him so very much.

But I gave Kobe a couple of 30s in the NBA finals. LeBron, Caramello. Yeah. That's a good collection of scalps right there, bro. Yeah, Judy, get on it. You know? Lucky. What are we thinking about it?

Look, Jalen, we could do this all day, man. One of my favorite guys to talk to. The podcast is The Renaissance Man podcast. with Jalen Rose. Like I was on there, run down some of the other guests you've had on the podcast for the people. And I definitely appreciate you joining me.

And it started in September of last year. And I'm just really proud of like how the audience is grown, how the guest list is grown and how like the versatility of the show is. Shout to Master P. Whose jersey hanging up behind you. He was part of the guest. Yeah.

Or Renaissance man. He gave me that. You're a colonel. Yeah. Legend. That, by the way, I told, he owe me $20,000 in no limit gear. We was hooping at UCLA, and we were shooting jumpers, shooting threes. And, yeah, I got to talk to him about that.

But I've had, I'm really proud. We've had Killer Mike. Who's some of the artists? I've had Nas, Killer Mike. Oh, wow. Big Town was my first guest, said, the entertainer. Katie Curry. Adam Silver, Mark Cuban.

Like, very diverse. Van Lathen. Van Lathen. Don't hype up. Don't do that, Jay, man. Make sure y'all check it out. Download it on Apple,

download it on Spotify. You guys are crushing it. Congratulations. And I got a higher learning point that you guys may already already know. Y'all know that movie. Y'all know in that movie. there was a moot part where Fudge was telling Omar Epps,

what would you do? You was at a game. And the national anthem came on. And everybody stood up and all of the white people was looking at you. What would you do? I'd be so embarrassed. I'll probably stand up. Right?

Right? Right. Yeah. So that was a spin-off to Mahmoud Abdul-Ra-Rouf. Yeah. That was one of my teammates in Denver. Unless you look at the photos. I play with you.

him a couple of years. So that's also a fast forward hat tip to our brother Colin Kaepernick. Yeah. And then got white ball from the NFL. So that story, higher learning brought full circle. Amazing. Brother, we appreciate you, man. We appreciate you for joining us today. Thank you so much, brother. Appreciate you. Anytime. Reach out anytime. Appreciate it. Transport your senses with Sol Dijanato's limited edition perfume mist collection at Sephora. lush notes of rainforest orchid and crisp sea breeze with he fresco paraizzo. Embrace a floral and fruity scent inspired by Rio's nude beach with cheeky bikini or caps for sun-kissed bliss with rimonadezolaia jolada, where zesty Brazilian lemonade accord

meets coconut milk and golden brown sugar. Don't miss Sol de Janeiro's limited edition perfume mist collection only at Sephora. Want to support your gut health? Take Activia's gut health challenge by enjoying two Activio Yogurt today for two weeks. and see if you feel a difference. With billions of probiotics and 20 years of scientific expertise, Activia is one of the easiest and tastiest ways to start your gut health ritual. Try Activia today.

Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. Fantastic interview with Jalen Rose. Fantastic. So good. He's the best. I feel like every time I hear him talk, I learn something new about him.

He's dope. He's dope. He's dope. He invited me on his podcast, you know? You know who else? How many, take a drink every single time Ben said that he was on Jalen's podcast. We get it. Okay, we get it.

I didn't say that I sat at the table with him at first take. I didn't say that. I didn't throw that out there. It didn't seem like he remembered it, though. He didn't say it. He greeted me when he got on, okay? He was here to promote the podcast, not first take a show he is not on. If I had been on Jalen and Jacoby, he would have talked about that.

He told us why he wasn't on first take, too. Since Skip has been there. Now he's been back because I was with him. All right, you guys, the Democrats have a problem. We're only going to hit one political topic for you right now. The Democrats have a problem, and that problem is Senator Joe Manchin. Okay. In an op-ed to the Charleston Gazette mail, Manchin made it clear that he will not only vote against the For the People Act,

which is a package of election reform bills being pushed. by his party, but he's also opposed to any effort to end the legislative filibuster as a way to pass several of Joe Biden's, Joe Biden's policy reforms. All right, policy proposal should I say. So Manchin has been a thorn in the side to the Democrats for a while now. Baccarus called him out specifically on some of his intractability surrounding the Joe, excuse me, the George Floyd Violence and Policing Act. a mansion was trending on Twitter and the trending topic was he's a

Republican. First thing I want to say to that is you guys, it doesn't matter whether or not he's a Democrat or Republican. Stop feeling like that D next to the name means that there's any allegiance to any one specific cause or any one specific group of people. All right? You don't agree with that. You think that's Brad. You hate. You love the Democrats. Well, I don't think that they're more so caught up in the the title of it into I love the Democrats.

It's just more of the way that he is making decisions lean towards one side more than the other. Or the lack thereof. That's very fair. You're right about that. So maybe they're calling him out and saying that he's actually a sleeper cell, mole in the Democratic Party. I just don't like people being too allied to political parties at this point.

Yeah. We need to be an ally to results on the issues. But that's what Joe Manchin says. Because yes, Joe Manchin. he wants to be bipartisan. So that is what he's doing. And that's fair. I mean, look, if he feels like that's, look, if he's against anyone, it's America,

anybody who's against people having the right to vote or the cops having the right to kill black people, you know, anybody who is for one of those things, for the cops' right to kill black people or against people having the right to vote, hey, knock yourself out. Knock yourself out if that's what, if that's what being bipartisan and being open-minded and free thinking is to you, I don't think it's very controversial

that we shouldn't have voter suppression. And I think that, you know, Junction is from West Virginia. So I think there's a delicate dance that he has to do in his own state because that be Trump country up there. So he can't be too far to the left on anything no matter what's the right or wrong of it.

The question I'd ask you is, what do you do with a guy like this? he's hurting the party at this point like whether you're when you when you come out and you do a whole op ed in the paper and you talk about all the problems with the bill and why you're not what you're like why you're not voting for for the people act what you're doing is hurting the cause because if on one hand you're saying you're about democracy and people having the right to vote then you're not understanding what the for the people act is you're not understanding the confines of that bill and what it's there to do.

It's commendable that you want things to be bipartisan, but it's almost as if you're living in an alternate reality that you're not understanding that by not voting, and not even just not voting for it, but coming out and talking about why it's so wrong, you are helping the other side of it. And it would be different if somebody from the other side was coming to help,

where you were coming together with someone from the other side to have some sort of resolution on the issue. But you're not. You're not helping it. All you're doing is talking about why it's wrong. So how are we going to get this to a bipartisan place if that's what it is that you're fighting for? So what he says is that the voting rights itself has become an incredibly politicized topic. And he thinks that what's actually happened is that the Democrats are positioned in this bill in order to provide some sort of advantage to them.

Okay. he thinks that action on federal voting rights has to has has has to in it of itself be bipartisan that if it's not Democrats and Republicans coming together to make it happen then it actually has no merit and it does not benefit the American people I guess my thing would be to me I understand the sentiment of that right I understand hey this is something that affects Americans on both sides of the aisle so don't we need don't we need some solutions on both sides of the aisle or a mixture of solutions from both sides of the aisle to make that happen. I guess my thing would be on its face, this bill make Americans freer to vote.

On this face, does this bill, forget about who sponsors it, forget about where it comes from, on the face, the merit of the bill itself, the merit of the proposal. Is that going to help Americans experience their right to elect state and local? and federal officials in a more efficient way. Is this going to work for people? And then if the answer is yes, who cares who on the left or the right support it? And so for me, I have problems taking what he says as a truth on his face.

But I'll tell you one thing right now. We have to make Mansion very, very famous. He's not famous enough. He right now is a guy that's like, He's your favorite rapper's favorite rapper. We need him out there front and center as the mascot of the scourge of the progress of so many Americans. Because we're talking about voting rights, right? And we're talking about the Violence and Policing Act.

And these are things that this guy seems like he doesn't want to happen. So Mansion got to get a little bit more famous. I like it. Yeah. That's it. Manchin got to be a little bit more famous. We got to get Manchin famous. We have to make sure that people have this because we can talk about the Mitch McConnell's and all those people like that.

But he's also against the filibuster. So it seems like he's trying to impede the progress of whatever Biden and his administration want to do. So against, excuse me, against reforming the filibuster. So he's trying to impede the progress of what Biden's administration are trying to do. So it seems like Manchin is pretty cool with maintaining the status quo. Absolutely. And then where does it stop after this? If that's your excuse for everything that this is a partisan bill,

then what are you going to say about the next bill that comes? Oh, that's partisan too. Oh, that's partisan. So at this point, we're not going to get anything from Joe Manchin. That's what he's hiding behind, which I feel like he's got a Republican agenda, which is why I think he was trending on social media, because if that's what you're going to hide up behind, that can continue, that can continue forever.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, I saw you. I saw you catch that mic. Rachel caught that mic, man. I'm telling you, man. Just snatch the mic. All right, look, you guys, we got to go because Rachel's got to go. She's got to.

You didn't get to do your Van's serious question, but I think it's the Waterburger versus Raisin-K. Yeah, it is. We're going to do a serious question on Thursday. It's not that. That's not my question. You can't. He doesn't want to lose, y'all.

He doesn't want to lose. You know what? Fuck it. Let's do it. Van's very serious question of the week. Because I'm not worried about this. For people who have had both, what is better

Waterburger or Raising Canes okay that can be the very I'm about to push me out Waze me crazy that's Baton Rouge baby that's Baton Rouge baby

four down Is that the sign for Baden Rouge? So the four right here in Baton Rouge okay the four means the bottom so there's the top

four up and there's the bottom four down oh wow if you And it's not like, this is right here, four down, that's the bottom. Yeah, do it. Do it. Rep,

the Red Baton Rouge, four down. That's the bottom. McKinley, all my people. Shout out to everyone. You're reping. Don't disrespect. We do this. Don't, what you do that? So you're blood.

Okay, cool. No, that's not blood. That's an O and a C. You made a B. Oh, Cliff? See, the white people listening to this, y'all don't understand. Y'all don't have to deal with gang politics

in your neighborhoods. It's so much more fun that way. You know, we have some. to represent where we were from, Gardier was that. But anyway, all right, look, Van's various series of the week. What is better? Waterburger or Raisin Cainz? The cold, fucked up burgers or crispy, amazing.

Take thing counts off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay. We are out. Bye, guys.