Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - RIP, Chadwick Boseman and John Thompson. Plus: Marlon Palmer on Adele's Viral Jamaican Moment.

Episode Date: September 1, 2020

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss the tragic, surprising death of Chadwick Boseman (2:00). Then they bring on Marlon Palmer to provide a Jamaican perspective on whether Adele culturally appropriated Jamaican culture (26:30), debate the Brandy vs. Monica Verzuz battle (43:22), address the status of the 2020 election (54:40), and give a sad goodbye to John Thompson (1:11:16). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Rachel Lindsay. That's right. Who is on location. Okay. Roving Rach, once again. It was a secret location last podcast. We can't talk about it. And now where are we coming, Roving Rach?

Where are we coming from? I am in Aruba. I am celebrating my one year anniversary. and I would just like to say that this past week has shown how dedicated I am to this podcast. No matter where I am, I always log on, mic up, and get the thought warriors what they want. You know what I mean? Which is this duo, this Van and Rach duo. Right.

Do you do it for free? No. Right. So some might say that you have a job and that you check in for your job. You know what I mean? I love the way out. Some people take vacation. People take vacation.

They take time off. I mean, yeah. Some people do. I mean, they do, but you chose not to. Like, I don't know. Like, if you, if you would have gone to Aruba and, like, say, I can't do the podcast, you would have to come up with a guest for me to host the podcast with a guest host. Who would you choose?

Right. I don't think we're far along in this pocket. I don't want anybody to outdo me. You know what I mean? I got to put, like, another 50 episodes in before. Because I don't want anybody to be like, man. You know, Van and Soloso really has some great chemistry. Wait a second, Kyle.

Van and Amanda Seals, they was cooking on higher learning. Did you hear that? Oh, she's got it. She's got it. She wants to come on. She's got it. So, listen, here's the thing. Okay.

We start off higher learning. We do higher learning. And we talk about things that are going on and stuff that's happening all over the place. There was not one bigger thing that happened this past weekend. then a revelation that was equal parts, shocking, sad, and deflating. It was on Friday night that I got a text with a news link in it. And the link said it read a headline that I was completely unprepared to read. It said, Black Panther Star, Chadwick Bowman.

dead from colon cancer at 43. I was shocked for many reasons. I was shocked that we had lost Chadwick Boseman, a lovely, beautiful, talented man. I was shocked because I was not aware that Chadwick Bowman was sick or it had cancer. And I also wasn't aware that it had progressed far enough to where we were seeing him in his life.

last days. Rachel, where were you when you got the news about chat with Postman? Yeah. I thought it was a joke. I mean, just I know that a lot has happened this year and it's, we've really lost, really, really lost some people that are heroes in our communities. Heroes to the world, but specifically to our community.

I was at home. I was packing for this. And we have a family text. And my sister, all she said was. Chadwick Bozeman with a sad face. I'm not understanding what happened. So I had to Google it to find out. And I still didn't believe it because we just didn't know, like you said, everything.

You said we were in the dark. We had absolutely no idea what this man was struggling with, what he was fighting for for the last four years, which is, I think the news of his death was shocking. enough. But the way in which he died added even more to it because he was struggling and we had no idea. And then it takes, then you start, you start internalizing and thinking there are so many times that people are fighting battles and we have no idea what they're going through at all. It's just such a loss to the community in so many ways. I'm still, I'm still, I'm still, It's still shocking. It's like it's still not real to me.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. In the sense that like, because it's like, okay, Black Panther, you know, like you think of him as the hero and the iconic character and the trailblazer in that sense. And then you see him as the person. It's just, it's, you know, when I was talking to Brian, he was like, yeah, it's like when, with Superman, with Superman, you know, with some people. Like your superhero who you regard is like, they, they can't be broken.

Indestructible. Yeah. Yeah. They get indestructible. They can't be broken. And then you hear it and it's just such a blow. But it runs deeper for us in our community because of what he did and what he stood for and what he meant. So he was diagnosed with colon cancer in 2016.

Right. And it was stage three at that point. It progressed to stage four. He couldn't fight it. He passed away. So being that he was. sort of, not sort of,

but in that he was diagnosed in 2016, that means that he filmed all of Black Panther, parts of Avengers, Infinity War, end game, Five Bloods,

and a couple of other movies while he was sick. This is in between surgeries and chemotherapy and all of those things, right? Most people, they learn about illnesses like this.

The first thing they do is step. way to devote themselves full time to whatever they think is going to save their life. It's clear that even though we don't have the opportunity to ask him why he continued to work and put out this great art for us, it's clear that what Chadwick Bowesman's life was about was performing, inspiring, and uplifting people through his art. Because during the time when no person alive would have begrudged, him taking a step back, shutting things down, and savoring every single second and every single

moment for himself, what he chose to do was put the entertainment, the inspiration, the upliftment, and the empowering of his people, his culture, the world community first. It is one of the more selfless things I've ever seen anyone do. I cannot fathom how he was able to draw the strength that he was. And to know that we had seen photographs of him where he looked a little bit emaciated, where it was concerning, and that our knee jerk was not to wonder specifically how we could help, but to speculate on what was wrong and to be. make jokes, and so many people did that. I just hope everyone understands, like you said before,

that life is happening everywhere all the time. And although he was Black Panther on the silver screen, when his two feet were planted on planet Earth, he was chat with Bozeman, somebody's son, somebody's husband, a member of our community, our culture, and the world community. And I just wish that we had the opportunity. to speak with him and talk with him about why he felt he owed us so much. I think that, I mean, I feel like he knew that this was bigger than him. And he had played so many iconic roles from Thurgood Marshall to James Brown to Jackie Robinson. And this was the role of a lifetime.

This was a trailblazing role because it was something that we had. never seen before and he knew that. And I think that my aunt used to always say that, you know, people are in your life for a reason, a season, or forever. And sometimes it's, it's two of those things. And I feel like the reason, you know, that he was the Black Panther and the reason that he was able to use his strength and his goodness. And it took such integrity and character to play that role knowing that he was battling through so much is because of what, He gave to our culture. You know, being a superhero,

us showing a joy and celebration of who we are as black people and giving us pride. It's very similar. Remember when we talked about Black as King and I was saying, it just made me feel so beautiful when so often we are told that our features aren't when they're used against us in such a negative way, but it told us to celebrate who we are and the richness and heritage of our culture. that's how I felt watching Black Panther. We were beautiful.

We were intelligent. We were smart, which is what we are. And this is something that depicted that. And he was the figure leading it. He was the face of it, you know? And I think it was that reason and that commitment where he could use his immense talents to tell the stories of our culture and black people.

They gave him the strength to fight through it. I mean, it was nothing, but I don't know, you know, you and I are spiritual, but I don't know, you know, I don't want to speak for our thought where it is. But that, to me, that was nothing but God. That he was able to dig deep, find the strength to play this role and be iconic and a hero for so many people, no matter what age you were. It's truly a miracle what he was able to do. So I went to see Black Panther during a screening.

I went to, I went to the Disney lot, and I saw it at a screening. A little bit before it came out, maybe two weeks before it came out in 2018. And there is a part in, but so you watch the movie, right? And I've read Black Panther my entire life. So there are a lot of things in the movie that I'm familiar with. And there's a lot of stuff going on surrounding the film in terms of the Marvel universe that interests me as well as the specific story of Tachala and of everything that's going on in Wakanda. I mean, Wakanda is a big part of the whole mythos of the Marvel universe.

Vibranium is all of those things. So as a comic book fan, you're watching it to see how it fits with the bigger story of the MCU. As a specific fan of Black Panther, you're watching it to see how they bring this amazing world to life. Wakanda, the richest, most resourced sort of latent country in the world. It's king, how he struggles to deal with. with his place inside of that country running the threats, both foreign and domestic that originate in Wakanda, and also how he reconciles his amazing, huge talent and gift

that he gets not only from the heart-shaped herb that gives Black Panther's powers, but also from the fact that Tachala is one of the smartest characters in the Marvel universe, one of the most capable characters in the Marvel universe. So he feels a duty to himself. and to the world around him. That's why he's an Avenger.

Okay. So you're watching that movie and you're seeing how they're doing the push pool. And they nailed it. Ryan Coogler, Michael B. Jordan in the best role of his career thus far to me, they nailed it. They completely got it right.

But they also nailed parts of it that were never in the comic books. They in that movie, they took the struggle of Wakanda, the struggle. Now, Black Panther before had took some time off to come over to America and fight the KKK and stuff like that. That had happened in the comic books and stuff.

That's in the comic books? Yeah. He does that in the comic books. But the movie starts off in Oakland. Ryan Cooghler is from Oakland where the actual Black Panthers come from and a nod to them and a nod to Ryan Kuwitz heritage. He connects

Africa to the struggle for black American freedom, justice, and equality and humanity here. The struggle between Kilmonger and Black Panther, Kilmonger actually was able to convince Black Panther that there should be more of a synergy between black people here and black people there.

And there's a scene, right? When, and to me, it's the best scene in the movie. And I, I'm going to try not to cry. I know that, like, when it's not, but I definitely cried in the theater, where just before all of the stars comes on, all of the stars like comes on as Black Panther and Shuri.

And he's standing there and he's talking to Shuri about how they're going to use their resources in Wakanda to come back and, and like make, an impact and a change in neighborhoods like Oakland all over the place.

You know, Him and Shuri talking about it. and the black kids see the craft, the Wakandan craft, that Black Panther and Shuri came on. It appears to them. It was cloaked, but then it appears to them. The thing that struck me about that was in that moment, I felt like one of those kids.

I felt like I was watching something up on the screen that had just appeared to me out of thin air. the heroism, the regality, all of the things that I had seen, like as that spaceship came to life, and that song by Kendrick and Siza cued in, I felt completely a part of something. And don't get me wrong, it's a Disney production, big corporate dollars behind it.

But what it had was it had a director and Ryan Cougler and a star in Chadwick Bozeman that understood the message of showing little black kids or even grown black kids, a 38-year-old man at that point, like me, what we really are and who we really are. And the fact that we are greatness, we are ourselves, and we are powerful. And when those little kids ran to the spaceship and they saw Black Panther who wasn't in his suit was just a guy at that point. Yeah.

But more of a hero to them, that was almost more of a heroic act than anything he had done in the whole movie, revealing to those kids who he really was and telling them that they were a part of it just by being there. And it clued in and the theater, the music you did in the theater went crazy. and I just started crying. I was like, yo, man, we need this.

Like, we, like, we need this. Like, we, it sounds, I know it fucking sounds stupid, guys, it's a comic book movie. But, like, but we, like, I can't explain it. Like, we need this. And he was doing that for us while he was sick. I know. That's, that's, that's the, that's the partest part.

to me, I mean, obviously he passed away, but the fact that he was suffering, yet giving us so much, what you're describing that he gave you in that theater as you watch it. What you're saying is he gave you hope. He gave you a vision of what

we need, the type of leadership and the unity that we need to bring our community together so we can thrive. I think that that's what's so special about what he did in this role in this movie because it wasn't just for young black boys. It was also for black men. And what you're expressing is what so many other people feel. I'm not familiar

with the comics. Surprise, surprise there. But I do, but I did see the movie. And it did mean something to me. But I love hearing your perspective because I almost feel like it represented something different for black men than it did when I just talk about it as a culture, what it did for us. I think that's, and I had no idea, no idea the comment in the comics, he fought the KKK and he was a superhero in that sense. I did not know that. There's a whole storyline where Black Panther is accused of turning his back

on his people in Wakanda because he's spending too much time in America fighting for black people over here. It's like the common... Black Panther is one of the most underrated comics going back. Tenahisa Coates did a fucking amazing job with his run on Black Panther.

It's fantastic. And by the way, I know you say for Black men, it is for Black men, but think about Shuri and the genes that she has. Oh, no, no, yeah. Right, right, right. So it's like for all the sisters too, it's just that people always say that heroes like that,

that it's kids games, it's comic books and stuff like that, that it doesn't matter. There's whatever. Well, if the heroes don't matter, then why they all white? Hmm. Yeah. And I mean, if it doesn't matter, if the comic book heroes and the stories and the, the, all of the different tales and yarns that get spun about people that fly out of the sky and inspire people and bring people together, about Peter Parker as Spider-Man who gets bit by a radioactive ant, right?

But something else about Peter Parker is he steps up to the challenge of becoming a hero, but then builds his web shooters by himself because of his genius. He rises to the challenge of heroism, right? Right. Any of those people.

You know, Superman could have easily destroyed this entire planet had he not been guided by two people that for whatever reason instilled upon him an American identity. all of these people and all of these stories they have a meaning in the way you understand what it is, how it is people view good and evil and right and wrong. Some of them are bullshit.

Some of them are not. But what they all do is implant into children and to society's minds what heroes are. Right. And if that doesn't matter, then why they all white? Right, right. But I think that's the hope that it gives like when the most heartbreaking thing me seeing these young kids, you know, mourning death of Black Panther because of what he represented to him because they saw a hero who looked like them, who told them that heroes

don't have to look a certain way, just like what you're saying. They can look just like you. You too can be a superhero and no matter what. It doesn't matter. Your race doesn't stop you from being that. And I think that that's, that's powerful in what you're saying. You're right. If it doesn't matter, then why do they all look the same? I want to talk to those little brothers, too. I want to tell them something right now. Black Panther ain't dead. I know. Black Panther ain't dead.

We're going to go back and we're going to see Black Panther again. We're going to see Wakanda again. And what Chadwick did on the screen is going to live forever. Yep. Anytime to any little black boy anywhere, right? If you want to go and see Black Panther Man, you can go see him whenever. you want. Just cut it on and watch it. You know what I'm saying? Like he did that for you and he did it for you so that you could always go back and feel that same way that you felt when you first saw

the movie. And they're going to tell more stories in Wakanda. They're going to do more stuff out there. It's going to be a, but that right there, a man put his life, his health, his psyche, and everything on the line so you could enjoy it forever. So do not have any funerals for Tachala. He's always going to be there when you need him. And that's what Chadwick wanted. And we like, we further his legacy

and we respect his legacy by continuing to engage and embrace it. And that's all I say. And I really, really, really, really hope that we continue to do that. I know we will. Just the way that people have responded, I know we will.

And I just want to also say that colon cancer is something that does run it's high risk in our community my grandfather passed away from colon cancer and there's a lot coming out to light about colon cancer and how it affects people of color and specifically how they tell you to get tested after a certain age and chadwick bozeman was before that age at the age of 39 he found out that he was stage three which means he had had it for a while. So don't wait until you're 40 like they tell you. You need to go get checked.

You need to get a colonoscopy. It's just a day procedure because it does run high for people of color. Yeah. And I want to say that like I saw somebody. I knew I'm not going to call people out. You know what I mean? Because it's kind of like not my thing to call people out on the podcast. It's not what I'm about.

But I'm going to call out an idea. I hope that everybody hears me. very clearly. I saw a tweet or something that said basically, like people are telling me to get a colonoscopy. Here's it, I'm not, whatever. I saw something that said that there's maybe something less than manly about getting a colonoscopy.

Like, I want to talk to you dumb fucks. Please. I want to talk to you dumb folks real quick. There's nothing. you know what fuck it you guys go ahead and die I'm not going to waste my time

don't you know what I'm not even going to waste my time everybody else that cares about your health cares about the health of your community cares about everything else understand do like Rachel said

go get a colonoscopy if you're too much of a man to actually go get the colonoscopy if you're too much of a man to go and get the the the fucking the prostate exam.

If you're too much of a man to go get the testicular cancer exam, peace out. God bless you, good luck. I'm not going to waste my time on it. I don't know why am I doing this. Natural selection. Don't fucking do it.

You know what? You're right. Don't do it. Don't get it. Peace. Like everybody else I'm telling you, reasonable people, when you get to a certain age,

when you get to a certain age, my black brothers that want to live for their families, that want to live for themselves, they want to live to continuously do good in their communities. Go get your colon checked. Go get the testicular cancer exam. Go get your balls.

All of that stuff done. If you don't want to do it, if you're too tough and you're too hard and you're too fucking manly for all of that, peace, God bless you. Peace out. See you later. Don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it. Like, don't worry about it at all. I can't believe somebody to. I should. I say I can't believe it. But I'm not, I shouldn't be surprised. Anything that comes on Twitter, I shouldn't be surprised. Like, what the hell?

What is this definition of man that we're saying? I mean, please take care of yourselves. Time for it. Either you care about your body and your future and your kids and your woman or your man or whomever surviving. Either you care about your family and you care about being around for them or you don't. I don't have time to play Coach Carter with y'all names. All right.

I don't. I'm over. I can't believe I was even about to do that. I'm disappointed to myself. Rest and peace of chat with Bozeman. Yeah, you're fine. I met the man two times. It was lovely,

nicest guy you ever want to meet. You have no idea what you did, not just for me, and for a generation of black boys that are going to come behind you. So I hope that your memory lives on. You got more movies coming out, and I know that it will.

Also, a fantastic actor, like Rachel says, wasn't just, I used to joke about it. I used to joke about it that they would be in meetings with biopics and they would be like, hey, Chadwick, Chadwick, God rest of soul, Chadwick was James Brown. Right. He was Thurgood Marshall.

He was Jackie Robinson. I used to always, I used to, I had a running joke that, you know, he used to play them all. It didn't matter if he looked like him or not. Because he didn't look like Thurgood, but he sure did a damn good job playing him. Yeah, he did.

I used to have a joke that they were going to do a Maya Angelou documentary, a Maya Angelou Biopin, and it was going to be chat with. Would put it past them. Right. Right. But the reason why is because when you have talent and when you have power, you got to keep going back to the well, and that's what that brother had.

And, man, God rest his soul. And I am praying for his family and for everyone that was affected. So now, something else happened. in the realm of pop culture this past weekend. And had to do with our good friend Adele. And I'm not going to lie, this was one of my favorite, this was one of my favorite moments of the weekend because it's the type of moment,

very few moments happen on Twitter where all you have to do is just put a picture and no caption is necessary. It speaks for itself. Or put a picture out there, no caption is necessary. And the picture was Adele. Oh, by the way, our Adele, we love Adele. You know, we always,

Adele has a certain, she's a certain relationship with the culture, I think. We love Adele, right? Is it past tense or are we still talking? No. Okay, okay. I think, I think, I don't think that Adele is lost. But, you know, Adele is very, she sticks up for Beyonce. She's always down.

You know, she's addressed in her videos before, you know, issues of systemic racism and police brutality and things like. that. So Adele's been an ally. But a picture of her wearing a Jamaican flag bikini and other carnival garb. She was at the, I guess it was the Notting Hill Festival out there in the UK, which I suppose is a celebration of... It's actually the second biggest parade in the world. The voice that you guys hear right now is not me or Rachel voice. It is the voice of Marlon Palmer from the extra Gravy podcast. Now, if you're asking why Marlon is here now is because we're about to discuss whether or not this picture of Adele, which was roundly criticized for being an example of cultural appropriation.

She's wearing, she has her hair specifically in a way. In the band do nots. In the band do not, she is wearing a Jamaican flag. And right away, the picture screamed cultural appropriation. Now, we're going to have this talk. And I was thinking to myself, me and Rachel could talk about this. But you know what we need? We needed Jamaica. Yep. Sorry, I'll stop.

You can do that. You can do that. We could. But seriously, because on the situation, we're going to talk about our definitions of cultural appropriation and what we think about it. But, you know, the culture that's specifically, I guess, accused of being appropriated is not my culture. Me and Rachel talked a little bit about this.

So Marlon, I guess what we'll do straight off is just come to you and ask you when you saw this, did you think it was culturally appropriating who you are and what your people come from? Yeah, I don't, I didn't think it was because, first of all, I've been to Notting Hill Carnival twice. It's an amazing parade. She is not the only white girl you're going to see dress like that or with hair like that. And I understand why people thought it was cultural appropriation, especially if you're not of the culture,

if you're not from Jamaica, if you never been to Carabana in Toronto, which is also pretty much the same type of parade. It's a celebration of the West Indian culture, right? And so for Adele specifically out in the UK, where she was born, which is Tottenham, it's a heavy, heavily concentrated Jamaican population that migrated there in like the 50s and 60s, right?

So the vernacular, the slang that you hear in the UK, most of it derives from Jamaican culture, as well as in Toronto. So everybody in Toronto was like, oh, okay, this is just another, you know, just another girl enjoying carnival. Like it wasn't that big of a deal. I understand from another perspective when it comes to the hair

because the Bantu knots obviously derives from black culture, not Jamaican culture, just black culture in general. And, you know, when you talk about here, like there's still kids, there are still black kids who are getting sent home from school for having certain hairstyles. You're still black women who can't wear certain styles to work. So I understand why if a white woman is doing it and now she's going to get the praise, the blog starts saying, oh, Adele rocks a new hairstyle. And then it makes it to runways in high fashion in Paris. Like I understand that trickle effect

and how that could come off it as a bad thing. But for Jamaicans, our slogan is out of many one people, which means we have a large, diverse array of cultures that come from Jamaica. We're very multicultural. And if you guys have ever been to Jamaica, I don't know if you guys have, we're very inviting of people diving in

and getting into our culture. We want people to be. let's say Waguan and Bamboclant and all those different things, right? So we enjoy when people embrace our culture. As far as I know, Adele has never been disrespectful to the culture. So I think that's another factor

that people need to take in. What would be being disrespectful to the culture? See, now if she started like, I don't know, she was pushing a stroller while doing that and just like acting out of character, like they're jumping off of speakers. I've seen a lot of people make fun of,

What? You know, you never saw this. Oh, you never see the skin out. They jump off the speakers and they jump into the girl. They jump into her. And then they dagger. They start daggering. We call it dagger.

In America, y'all call it dry humping. We call it. Yeah. I have, I didn't experience this. You've never seen those videos. Those videos are fucking fantastic. These niggas do, they do somersaults off speakers. Like, I love you feel like I missed out.

Like the WWE right into a dagger. Yeah. I've actually seen videos of Jamaican parties where they're jumping off speakers or daggering in trees, jumping out of trees. And I've seen that actually dubbed over with Jim Ross. Right.

So I understand. I get it from an outside perspective, how wild it is. But that's just a part of our culture. It's about having fun. Do you feel like people were exaggerating? Because I feel like when I saw all this, I thought, is it a slow news week?

I mean, is this just we're so quick to jump on people because of cancel culture without, as you explained to us, what this was. It's not like it was like, hey, it's Monday. And Adele just decided to whip her hair up in Band, do not. Which I'm very curious as to who did it. Yeah. That was a thought.

Yeah. That was a thought. And just throw on a bikini, a Jamaican bikini. I thought, okay. there has to be more to this, and then there was. And as you're explaining it, do you feel like people were over-exaggerating this? I feel like given everything, this has been a heavy week, right?

It's been a heavy week with everything that's happening. Twitter and social media, especially, they try to grab onto anything that is a little bit of an escapeism, and they can get the laughter out and the jokes and the memes going and all that. So it was just one of those like alley-y-y-ups to social media. and especially when people who don't know the culture, it's so easy to start, you know, changing up Adele lyrics,

bashing up her songs with reggae dub songs, and all these different things. So I think it was more so like the heaviness of the week really invited that type of reaction, I guess, that you saw online. But, like, people were definitely overreacting. I saw threads. I saw think pieces start and all those different things.

things. So it all depends. It all depends on what perspective you're looking at it from. If you're looking at it from a lens of a West Indian, majority of us were not mad. We're big in her up like, you're wearing our flag. We're not going to be mad at one of the most popular people on the planet wearing our flag. You never saw any videos either of her. So it's not like you can say she was acting a certain way or anything like that. I think it was mostly the hair. I think the hair was the biggest, I think that was the most divisive thing of the entire picture was just the hair. Because a lot of black women have, you know, they have a certain life that goes along with wearing certain hairstyles that they can't do.

And then when you see a white woman wearing it and everyone's like, yeah, go Adele, go Adele, you're going to get a little angry. I think that, I think what happens if, and the reason why it was interesting, because this was a specific cultural issue and you wanted someone that could speak to the realities of that culture. I think for me, when I first saw it, I was offended. And the reason why I was offended is because of the specificity of the pain of black American culture and what gets surrounded with the specific way that we get erased, right?

So, you know, there are people out there that don't know that Hound Dog, one of the most famous Elvis songs ever, is a cover. It's a cover of a black artist, right? And all of these things that you have seen in America that have made these people generationally, wealthy, generationally famous, and generationally and relevant in perpetuity, are all started by us because what happens is once you start to get the dollar signs out of something, once it starts to make money, the innovators and the originators of it, they get erased from it and subtracted from it.

And so because we've gone through so much of that here in our culture, and it's not just in rock, it's not, it's in so many different things. Yeah. It's like you have to ask permission. to be yourself sometimes, right? Yep. When you see somebody else doing that, it triggers you. Exactly.

That and that plus the way the parody of some of these things leads to dehumanization, right? So if you have people and maybe Adele's not trying to do that with the hair, but sometimes you see it in popular culture where they make your lips big, or they make your nose big, or they exaggerate something, or they emulate. I don't want to see people from South of Louisiana dress like Master P and dress like like how we dress. The reason why I didn't want to see it is because I could not be sure in my head that they weren't making fun of us. Yeah. And that marginalization and dehumanization of us leads to actual stuff. But with this, as I came on the podcast, as we came on a podcast,

ready to give our opinions on it. And I'm like, our cultural standard, even though we are black, it's not the same cultural standard. It might actually be different. And you're telling me that it is in fact different. Rachel didn't see what the big deal was, and I was like, yeah, and it's a conversation worth having, you know? Because I put it in the context. I think this isn't,

I don't know, it's not her darkening her skin, wearing cornrows, you know what I mean, pretending to be somebody that she's not. And maybe I came a little late to the game. So by the time I saw it, I didn't see it go viral on Twitter.

By the time I saw it, I understood the significance of the carnival in London and where she came from. So I had a different understanding. understanding of it. Who knows how I would have reacted if I had just seen the picture with the band do nots. You know what I mean? Exactly.

So maybe it's a little bit different for me. But I didn't see it personally as a big deal. But then like Van and I were saying, we didn't feel comfortable speaking on it because we aren't Jamaican. So we wanted the expert to really tell us what was up. Yeah, because there's nothing she's doing or wearing in the picture that's necessarily Jamaican other than the flag. You know what I mean? And going to a festival where, you know,

you're going to see a couple thousand, maybe hundreds of thousands of flags, it's not out of the realm of possibility that people are going to wear the flags. They've been made for a reason, right? And you're not going to, Adele's not going to definitely not go to a celebration like that and make fun of the culture when it's an appreciation for the culture day. Like that entire weekend is wrapped around that. There are parties for a week going on wrapped around celebrating West Indian culture. So I think for a lot of people, they just didn't know why she was doing it, where she was going.

They thought maybe she was going to the grocery store where I can see that being like, okay, this is not a costume. You know what I mean? Right, right. But she's going somewhere where there's going to be tons of flags. It's going to be a lot of celebrating. She's obviously appreciating the culture. She comes from the culture in a sense because she's surrounded by it her whole life. There are Jamaicans all around her in Tottenham and Brixton.

And you feel like that makes her, that's interesting. You feel like to a degree because she comes from an area that is immersed or adjacent to Jamaican culture, that in a way she comes from Jamaican culture. In a sense, this ties to a Drake conversation. I was going to ask you about him, by the way. Because Drake, he comes from Toronto and the majority of our slang, our vernacular, our lifestyle is wrapped around Jamaicans, partly also Somalis. So when you have that mix

And it's just a part of you all the time You go to parties There's an hour and a half of reggae You go to Go down the street for stores There's like six or seven Jamaican stores We have a little Jamaica In the city where it's like

That entire strip is just Jamaican restaurants And stores and barbers and stuff So it's not like it's foreign to him This is just a part of his life But for people who are just hearing him Especially for people who heard him do the American thing at first and then it seems like he's transitioning.

It's because... To the London thing sometimes. Yeah, but it's because at first he had to really try to tap into that American side because as a Toronto artist, we didn't get that look ever before. You had Cardinal, you had Choclear, you had a couple guys who made it out,

but for the most part, they couldn't speak Toronto slang. You guys... Glenn Lewis? You don't understand it. You wouldn't even... Yeah, exactly. You wouldn't understand it. You know what I mean?

mean. So it took him to get to a place where he's like, okay, I'm at the top now. Now I can say these things and people are going to care about what I'm saying enough to look into what I'm saying. Now, some people did. Some people didn't care to look into it. And so it's easy to be like, oh, cultural appropriator. Oh, he thinks he's Jamaican and all these things. When in Toronto, we're just like, okay, that's just regular. Yeah. You know what I mean? So would it have been different if, and I'm really just asking this is a question, if she had the hat on, with the dreads attached to it, the fake dreads? Yes.

Okay. That would have been... Man, were you thinking it? Were you thinking it? That would have been, that would have been a huge problem. He said yes. Obviously, this is a good question. It's a fact.

It's a fact. It's a fact. Because you see it so much. Oh, that I think it's offensive. No, it is because we have rastafriian culture, and that is like... Thank you. It's a belief system.

It's a damn near religion. So it's like, now you're infringing on people's beliefs and making light of it, you know what I mean? And the dreadlocks mean its own thing. Right. So there's a lot that goes into it. At the same time, I will say that a lot of the time, especially when it comes to Jamaica, we're so inviting of other people diving into the culture that it can be a detriment at times.

People can't have their boundaries. You know what I mean? There is a thin line at some point. So I understand both sides very clearly. But as Jamaicans, we are just very proud of anyone that wants to big up our country. And if she had something negative to say or something negative to do, it would have been a completely different story. Right.

And it's also hard to be, it's hard to be defensive and on edge when you high. So, you know what I mean? Like when you're smoking that good, you down there, you know what I'm saying? That's hard. Yes. I'm fucking, hey, bro, I really do Marlon. I appreciate the insight. way, this is one of the best follows on Twitter, especially if you want Raptors propaganda.

If you want pro-Raptors propaganda, this is one of the best follows on Twitter. Plug yourself so we can get you out of here, bro. I appreciate the science. I'm that do McFly on all things social. You can catch my podcast Extra Gravy on all streaming platforms every Wednesday morning. And yeah, I host with Alicia and Norm. We do it every week. We talk black culture, black podcast, black everything. So, yeah. All right, my brother. Appreciate you.

Thank you. Marlon. Thank you guys for having me. Marlon. Job bless. You guys. Job bless you in Aruba. Thank you guys for having you, man.

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New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order. Dot sweetgreen.com. There's something that's happening in just a matter of hours here. Okay? In just a matter of hours, maybe even a matter of minutes. By the time we do the next podcast, we will know. how this went, it is a

incredibly relevant cultural moment because Brandy and Monica are facing off in the versus battle. Now, guys, this is a big-ass moment. This is like, this is like a huge, huge

look at Rachel. Rachel legitimately has to smile. Rachel looks like the fucking joker right now. That's how big of a smile she has on her face. Rachel, tell her, why, why Why does this make you so happy? Because I was a kid.

I grew up in this era. I grew up on Brandy. I grew up on Monica. I was that kid, you know, you're on the playground and it's who's going to be Brandy, who's going to be Monica? They meant so much to me musically back in the day. They still do. And we've been asking for this versus for a long time.

We talked about it on the show. I interviewed Brandi. I brought it up. She's like, listen, I'm telling you, we are willing to do it. She says there's no bad blood between her and mom. Monica. They're open to it. So I feel like, I feel like what we say they listen to. You know, I even saw some talk about Mariah and Mary J. Blige after we have this. You know what I'm saying? You know, that we have some influence here. Oh, you feel like you know, you feel like we're

influencing the cultures, which is saying. I do. I do feel like we have a bit of influence here. But Brandy Monica, this is long overdue. The last time the women did it, they killed it. I think when it was Jill Scott and Erica Badu, that was the highest viewed. Oh, that was. That wasn't even. Without a doubt. That was Nirvana. That was a cultural. That was a moving museum on Instagram.

It was so amazing. Like, I think that got up to like 900,000 people at one time or on there, maybe even more. It was amazing. Yeah. I expect that same energy to be brought tonight because Monica and Brandy have those songs that you sing in the shower, that you just wake up. Just one of them days, sitting up in my room. You like that. You know you wanted to sing a little bit when I said it.

Say, well, sitting up in my room was a moment. for me because singing up in my room was like the height of my love for Brandy. I was in love with Brandy. Yeah, I get it. You've already mentioned Thea on the show. Yeah, I was, I had a serious, serious thing for Brandy. You know what I mean? Because all of these girls were, they were my age at the time.

You were a little bit younger, but they were my age. So these were my, between Monica, Brandy and Alia, I was taking a different girl to the prom in my head every single year. You know what I mean? But sitting up in my room, that was really the one that was like, oh, Brandy fine. Brandy was killing it. We all know the ad lives on sitting up in my room. But then they were endorsed by the legends.

Like Whitney Houston was very influential in the careers of Brandy and Monica. She backed them. She was behind them because they were so great. I'm so excited for this. And this is what I want to. I don't know how they're going to set up this versus. I don't want them in the same room. You know how lately you've been seeing verses and they're in the same room.

I think they're going to be in the same room. Ah, I don't know if I want that. Well, whatever. I don't know. I just feel like it's a different vibe. I like to see them separated, them talking to each other. I'm not, stop, stop. Anyways, who you got?

Who you got? Who you got, Brady and Monica? As much as I love Brandy, and I think Brandy has one of the most amazing voices of all time. I think very few women ever doing it, very few people, very few humans ever do it, seem better than Brandy. Monica got this.

I think Brandy has it. Monica got this. You forgot. You slept on. When she hits the I'll be missing you, these are songs that you're just not going to be thinking of. Angel of mine? That's the first Monica song you had with?

Just one of them days is the song you gotta pop off. It don't matter. Monica got them goddamn hits. Are you looking at discography right now? Are you just going to say it on the top of the dome? I'm looking at the discography right now. Monica got them hits. By the way, I think,

her hits, I think in the cultural situation, here we go. I think the hits for Monica might hit a little harder. No. We're not doing that. From Brandy, that's all I'm saying. Like, you got to always think about, you always got to think about what's going to, like, oh, Monica, man, Monica got these hits. I'm telling you. Like what? I'm not down in here. I love Monica, but I just think Brady, I mean, Brandy was Cinderella, for goodness sake.

What does that mean? I'm just saying, like, she, like, her career, see, this is what you're saying. You're like culturally Monica. See, this is going to get us back into a Mariah Mary J. Blyde's like, who, which audience is more receptive of the two? Like, Brandy kind of crossed over. Monica, I don't know if she did in the way that Brandy did. Okay. So you say Monica never crossed over, right?

I didn't say that. I said, in the way that Brandy did. Okay, so, but that's what you said. She played, played Cinderella. She played Cinderella, who is typically a white. She's only black Cinderella. And who's typically a white. You just basically, who is typically a white.

You just completely dehumanized. I'm sorry, I didn't complete my sister. You just completely dehumanized Cinderella. She played Cinderella who you basically called Cinderella a Karen. You just completely dehuman a white. My point is that Brady is the only person who has been a woman of color. to play Cinderella typically played by white women. Okay, so Brandy, I'm looking at Monica right now.

Okay. Monica got, don't take it personal. The first single went to number two. She got like this and like that. Like this and like that. That was not as popular. I just want to put that out there. Oh, it went to number seven on the charts.

What are you talking about? Which charts? Which charts? This is the peak chart position. The U.S. R&B's charts? No, no, because it was number one on the U.S. R&Bs. B charts, it went to number seven on the hot 100.

And so I'm looking at this. She got before you all got my life. Another huge. Why I love you so much, baby, that's just why I love you so much. You remember the box? You remember the box? You remember the box? Remember the box? Yeah, of course. Did you used to call up? You used to call your pants from work and be like, can I please just have like call in one video?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't ask them permission, I would just do the shit. Well, Cosby kid here. Cosby kid. I was just do it. Here's the thing. I'll tell you a quick story. Like, the reason why I would just order shit on cable and on the phone is because my dad

didn't want to get down to itemize in the cable bill with me because he was making some cable bill purchases that were, all right. He didn't want to talk about that. Like, he would, like, I would order WrestleMania or something like that. They'd be like, Cable bill getting high, we'd be like,

that's not why the cable bill is high, pervert. Don't worry about it. Like, we order a WrestleMania if you order in Luke's peep show. Now, now, so look, but seriously, though, seriously, so Monda's got for you, I will, from the Space Jam soundtrack. She was on the Space Jam soundtrack. That was a hit.

She's got the boy's mine with Brandy. They shared that one. That's number one. The first night, number one. Angel of mine, number one. Okay. She's got so gone. She's got a bunch of hits all over the place that she's going to, and these are going to, the hits that are going to hit hard, hard,

Brandy, Brandy. What about Street Symphony? What about Street Symphony? These are all great examples. Now can I do with Brandy because you want to talk about soundtracks? Oh, she was on Space Jam. Brandy was on Waiting to Excel. You want to talk about the culture?

That was sitting up in my room. I know. And she was on Set It Off. missing you with greats like Shaka Khan and Gladys Knight. But that's not going to do nothing in the verses battle. What? People are going to be like, I found up. Yes, they will.

They will. Okay, I want to be down. Let's not forget the remix. I want to be down. It's going to go hard. About this tall. About what? I want to be down is going hard.

And then the, baby, baby, best friend. Brokenhearted. Yeah. The boy is mine. Have you ever? That's when she crossed over. Have you ever? Broken harder and have you ever aren't moving any units with this audience.

They're not doing it. See, this is what you're talking about. It's a number one. It was number one on the U.S. billboard. Almost doesn't count. I said this is when she crossed over. I'm just letting you know that these songs are nice songs for like a now that's music, uh, 1999.

Like these songs are this song for like, but in this particular battle that we're talking about, they're not going to move the deal. By the way, I listen to more, I listen to more of Brandy than I do, Monica. I do. Do you? My favorite Brandy album ever is Full Moon. Like, I love Full Moon.

Oh, okay, you're right. That's one that's not going to really resonate with the culture. Amazing. But I think, you know, I think it's wrong because I think Brandy is going to have songs. I think Brandy's going to have her and Kanye, the more you talk about my love, talk about our love.

I think that song is actually going to resonate more with some parts of the audience than other songs. Well, I think she's going to have the song off of late registration. I always knew that one day they're going to take me down. It's an album cut. I think she's going to have some. But I think Monica's going to win. I'm telling you, Monica's going to win.

It's going to be a great one. How excited are you off this person's game. Right, right? Aren't you getting excited just talking about it? It's going to be great. You think they're going to have anybody pop up? You know what I mean? Like some people are doing? I think there going to be any guest appearances? Who like Rodney, Dark Child Jerkins? What are you talking about? Like dark child, Rodney, dark child

Germans? Is he going to pop up? Y'all need to make sure that y'all give. Oh, by the way, I just want to give a props to somebody real quick. That Adele argument, I had a thought warrior reach out and wanted us to talk about it. Her name is, or their name is Beach Edsel. Beach Ed Seal. Beach Ed Seal?

I don't know. shout out to you, Ed. You know who you are. Ed knows who he is. Ed begged me to beg us to talk about the whole situation with Adele. Now, so we're on record right now. You're saying that Monica, you're saying that Brandy's going to win. I'm saying to Monty.

Okay, I'm going with Monica. We will check back later on in a week, even though we never really get a definitive answer of who won a versus battle. We don't. We don't. And I think this was going to be a tie. Yeah. The culture knows. Okay. I have a question for you.

It's actually not on the rundown, but it actually ties into kind of some things that we're about to talk about, right? Okay. So, and this is just a question I can ask. And I'm sorry, Jordan. I'm sorry, Jackson, but this just literally popped up before. You should be apologizing to me. Well, I'm not apologizing to you. I'll tell you why I'm not apologizing to you because your big Rach,

roving rach, and this is an easy question for you. I'm going to ask you about something that Bill Maher said. Okay. Oh, okay. Bill Maher basically said that the term Karen might keep white suburban women from coming out and supporting Joe Biden. Okay, Bill Maher is trending on Twitter right now as we speak. We're going to get into how some of the uprisings in both. both Kenosha, Wisconsin, and up in Portland,

are reshaping the political sphere. And kind of, you know, we're having more sort of discussions than we're talking about more things, how that will resonate politically. I guess Bill Maher's kind of point was that he thinks that the hyperwokenness of people on the left is going to turn out so many people in the middle that it could lead to a re-election of Donald Trump.

And he said specifically that the term Karen is castigating too many suburban white women. And in castigating those suburban white women, you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face. If getting Donald Trump out of office in November is really your end goal. A lot of people are coming at Bill for that. I have my own thoughts. I know that that wasn't on the rundown. I am sorry. but it's easy enough topic to talk about.

Like, yeah, I'm sure you have to. Have you thought about this? Like, what do you think about that overall premise? Well, it's funny that you bring this up because I can't remember what I was watching, but I saw a map of the United States. And it was colored in red and blue of where they think, you know, how the states are going to vote and where the electoral colleges or how they're going to vote and who could win.

I looked at the map. And I turn to Brian and I go, I am absolutely terrified that Donald Trump is going to win again. Wow. Because there are a lot of people who are loud about not wanting him in office and all the damage that he has done over these last three plus years. But what if all those people are coming from a California and a New York of states that are already blue that Donald Trump knows that he has no chance of winning? But what is Florida saying? What is Ohio saying? What are some of these key swing states? saying that map was extremely red. That map showed that Donald Trump will win in November,

which is why they're very big on the silent majority. I never thought of it in the way that Bill Maher was talking about, about the Karens and how this term and throwing it at these, these white women and suburban women could possibly turn them off and push them towards voting for Trump. I never thought of it that way. But I will tell you this. Things are becoming so extreme that I am scared. There is such propaganda that is painting people as extreme left. I literally got tags in a video today that labeled me as extreme left, said they don't know how I got hired for extra TV to work with Billy Bush because I am extreme left.

And there's only a matter of time that I'm going to push my extreme left views on the audience that I'm going to be speaking in front of. I'm not even extreme left. Do you know what I mean? I'm just using my platform to speak out against racial equality and social injustice. I don't say anything that's super extreme. But that's the propaganda that's being pushed out that's even labeling people who are left, moderate left, I'm not moderate left, but left, moderate left, whatever, and painting them as extreme

radicals. That is what President Trump is doing to Joe Biden, who's not extreme at all. And that's the fear that I do have, and I understand what a Bill Maher is saying that you're either extreme left or extreme right. And if you're in the middle, which way do you want to go? Do you want to be an extremist? Do you want to be an anarchist? Do you want to be violent?

Or do you want to be for people who are just trying to, we're just simply trying to control this violence? And I could see those people swaying to that. Do you have a problem with the term Karen? No, not at all. Hmm. Do you? No.

Look, I think, first of all, everything you said is correct. I think there is some fear there. The reason why I don't have a problem with the term Karen is because the term Karen doesn't apply until you exhibit a specific behavior. Correct. So you're not a Karen because you are white and suburban and middle class from the suburbs.

You know what I'm saying? You're not a Karen, even if you're a Republican and you're from those places, even if you're a conservative, you're a Karen if you unjustly call the police on a black person. If you throw a tantrum over wearing a mask inside of a traitor Joe's. If you lose your mind over a parking space or something like that, you yell in someone's face. If you exhibit that level of toxic privilege, of perverted privilege, that is what makes you a Karen. You're not just simply a Karen because you're a white lady, whether you're,

moderate, neoliberal or conservative from the suburbs. That doesn't make you a caring. It's a specific action that makes you a caring. It's like there's a specific action that makes you anti-black. There's a specific action that makes you a racist. There's a specific action that makes you homophobic. I think what Bill Maher is talking about is kind of what pisses me off about Bill Maher and certain other people.

Bill Maher is a liberal that he's been very liberal on his show to a degree. but he also is so weighed down by the righteousness of white privilege that it oftentimes clouds him from being able to make very easy cultural analysis. I remember one time he was like the Me Too movement should move with some grace and some charity. And so should the woke movement of black people on Twitter. Well, how much grace and charity were those men exhibiting when they raped and sexualized? We assaulted those women. Exactly.

So I'm saying maybe the time for grace and charity, for racist and for misogynist and for people like that, maybe you fucking used up all your charity. Right. And maybe the best thing that I as a man can do is put a different E on the end of it, which is accountability. You know what I'm saying?

But also to that point, the way I feel that, like, it's at least worth disgusting. whether or not, like, for example, there's, there's, there were uprisings in, we've seen them happen in Kenosha, right? And there's been some talk that these uprisings in Kenosha are changing the polling perspective of the white people there on Black Lives Matter. We've seen that, right? We've seen the numbers change. We've seen Trump weaponize what's happening in Portland, which Portland's in parts of Portland and are in full on civil war right now. Yeah. And what's happening in Wisconsin to convince his base that somehow this will get worse under Joe Biden when it's happening during his presidency.

Does any of that type of stuff give you pause into whether or not people should be uprising, the fact that it's being weaponized by some fascists on the right? Wait, so what's your question? My question is, does it, like, if you were getting ready to go protest or go to an uprising, Would you pause or hesitate to do it because you're in fear that the president would take those protests in the uprisings and then use them to prove that Black Lives Matter is dangerous or to sway public opinion or to sort of convince Americans that his brand of law and order is the only way that we're going to save the country? would I pause on doing it for that reason? Absolutely not. Yes, of course not. If you pause, then you're playing into exactly what it is that he wants.

I mean, I just need people, and it's something that you said as well, you touched on as well, I need people to understand what he's saying. He is literally trying to say, not just that things are going to get worse, almost as if he's ignoring how bad things are and saying if you elect him, things are going to be bad. Things are terrible right now. They are absolutely terrible and they're only getting worse and the divide is spreading and this is all happening under your leadership and I use that under quotations and your administration. This is happening under you and every time you speak out, all you do is add fuel to the fire. The fact that the president is supposed to tomorrow go to Kenosha

and you have a governor of Wisconsin, a lieutenant governor of Wisconsin, begging you not to come. It's definitely the governor who has written a letter specifically to President Trump saying, please don't come here because all you're going to do is make matters worse. That is a huge problem. That is what they're saying. We are under a president under administration that makes problems worse. I don't understand how people can fall for. Don't vote for him because he's going to make things bad when things are already bad.

When we are in the middle of a civil war in Portland, when people can't get along, when you have people just peacefully exercising their constitutional right, and you have a president that is encouraging people to bear arms and go in there so they can represent themselves as great patriots, and then they go shoot down protesters who are peacefully just promoting racial equality and social justice. I mean, it's insane the propaganda that is being spewed out by this administration to paint Joe Biden as bad, also to take away from the fact that six million people have. contracted the coronavirus in our nation and almost 185,000 people have died from it.

That is what they're doing. They're trying to distract you from their other mishaps and pointing towards this and politicizing social justice. That's it. That's all he does is politicize everything. Right. And adding to the fact that he was that his White House, I guess, a talking head was asked today whether or not the president had any comments on Kyle Rittenhouse, the vigilante

child killer that, you know, killed two people there in Wisconsin. And she said that the president wasn't going to speak on it. Wait, wait. She said he wasn't going to speak about Kyle. She said the president wasn't going to speak on it. Why are you coming? Did she address that? Why is he coming to Kenosha?

They asked if the president was going to talk about it, what the president's thoughts on it about it. This is a vigilante who took up violent arms against American citizens. shot them, then crossed state lines with weapons. A criminal. A criminal. And when we're talking about lawlessness and respect for the law, it's always interesting how white supremacy dictates which laws are okay to disobey and which laws you must fucking follow.

So this kid who is obviously, there's video of him, by the way, punching a girl in her face. Oh, I saw that. You know what? Every fucking everybody else that gets blown up by the cops, they go back in their past. And if they had so much as a parking ticket, if they had so much as a parking ticket, they are vilified. There's a video of this little guy beating up a girl.

Get it that he's young. I have never in my life. I don't give a fuck if I was 5, 25, or 35. ever, ever mixed on a lady like that. Ever. I have never in life mixed on a lady like that. Ever. Never touch with like to, to me,

you start doing that type of shit. You're crazy. They got videos of this kid on tape doing this, right? Maybe he has a propensity for violence. Maybe there's something a little off about somebody like that that would get involved in like that. And obvious, when you see him doubling up on a lady like that,

that tells you something, but that's not something that's worth discussing. That part of his past isn't worth discussing. The fact that he murdered American citizens isn't worth discussing. It's just so infuriating. And to your point that you were making earlier, I don't know if as a country,

if we have enough collective brain cells yet, not for some people to fall for it. We just got to work our asses off and make sure that as much as we can, people can see the forest for the trees. Well, what is it going to take? You have a man lost his life in Portland, and that's never okay.

It doesn't matter what side of the fence he's on. A man lost his life, and that, and that's never okay. But what more is it going to take when you have a group of 600 vehicles that come into town to pepper spray and spray rubber bullets and paintball guns, paintball bullets, at peaceful protesters. And then you have a president who is calling them great patriots, who is basically inciting this type of behavior. When a president's job is to calm down the situation, to try to find some sort of peace and unity,

so figure out how we can make things work and function together as a whole, as a people, as American citizens. and instead you were inciting this type of behavior. And how do you not see that? I guess that's my question is like when you talk about brain cells and we're just going to have to work really hard, to me, this is as plain as day. This is plain as day. He hasn't spoken out that in addition to what you're saying about the spokesperson,

they also asked him for a spokesperson for President Trump, they also asked him about if he's visiting the Blake family, and there's no comment on that. when he goes to Kenosha. So what the hell are you doing in Kenosha? It sounds like he's going to assess the damage and talk to the police force rather than offer some type of comfort or resolution for the family that has suffered. He doesn't want resolution.

He wants a rally. That's what I'm saying. He doesn't care about resolution. How do people not see this? He cares about a rally is what he cares about. He cares about, like literally, Trump likes whoever likes him and whatever evils, any evil that's committed in his name is okay with him. So look, I'm employing Americans. I'm not saying that a Joe Biden presidency will come with a chicken in every pot.

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that we need leaders in this country at every stage of government and private life who are committed to mending the way. wounds to healing the wounds, should I say, that currently plague American society. And they are deep. We're in a bad, bad situation right now. Like the country is dying. And if you have someone who fuels the fire and who is one-sided in the way that they look at it, we're not going to be able to get things on the same page, on the same accord where we need to do or where we need to be in order to move forward. It's scary. It's scary, man. It's scary because these people are people are doing this harm in the name of Trump.

In the name of Trump. It's like, how do you not see that? How? It's wrong with people. So, before we get out of here, where there's another giant that we have to say goodbye to, a man who you might not be as familiar with, his name is John Thompson.

And John Thompson was the legendary coach of the Georgetown Hoyas. Now, if you're in all familiar at all, familiar with basketball culture, then you would know the, you recognize the image of the big, tall, gigantic, kingly black man who was leading players like Alonzo Morning and Patrick Ewing and Alan Iverson to championships, well, not Iverson, but Ewing and those guys to championships with the Georgetown Hoyas in the 1980s. And who was not just a force on the basketball court, but also a father figure to so many young black men that needed him in a very, very, very formative time in their life

when they've just left home, they go out to Georgetown, D.C. He made, you know, Georgetown was like they were our black Superman of college basketball. You know what I mean? The Hoyas emblem, we were wearing it in Baton Rouge. You know, this is before the Fab Five. This is before the UNLV running rebels. And it, but they had something.

that those other programs didn't even have. They had a black leader, a general on the sidelines that just stood straight up and took the lives of those young men in his hands. He passed away. What were your thoughts about John Thompson? Yeah, I mean, I won't say I'm super well-versed in college basketball, but I know who John Thompson Jr. is. and that is because he was such a figure and a staple.

I mean, being the first black coach to win an NCAA championship, the fact that he coached such, I was a big Alan Iverson fan. Love Alan Iverson. Had a crush on him, wore the sleeve in basketball, wore the fingers. I mean, all, I was decked out in AI. So, I mean, I'm familiar with John Thompson, Jr., but in the news of his death and reading about what he did,

I had no idea how, you know, as a coach, you always know that black coaches a lot of times are a father figure and an example to a lot of their players. But what I didn't know is how much he did off the court and how he showed coaches and players and not just black people, just in the sports industry, period, that black men are not a one-trick pony. A lot of times you see black athletes are looked at just as, you know, they should shut up and dribble, that all they can do is play the game. Even as recently in football, when you're looking at black football players, that they're told that they can't lead the team as quarterbacks. Recently, you're starting to see black players become or black athletes become quarterbacks, which has always looked at as a role that was above them. They weren't smart enough to play that role. Well, John Thompson Jr. showed that he could be more than just a coach. I mean, with winning the championship, with the leadership that he did to his players on and off the court, and he was known as being smart, a polarizing figure, a legend. And I did not know this. I did not know that 30 years ago, he refused to coach a game because he felt that there was an NCAA rule that was discriminating against black players. 30 years ago, he refused to coach a game because he felt that there was an NCAA rule that was discriminating against black players. 30 years ago did this.

And so it's crazy that in light of what's happening right now in our country and what's happening in the NBA, and you saw that there was a boycott of games played in the playoffs, John Thompson Jr. did this by himself. Not a team, not other teams doing this, not a group of players. He himself walked off, refused to play in a game until the rule was changed. That's leadership. That's bold. That's an example of that he sets more than just for athletes.

that played underneath him, more than coaches who coached after him, just being black in general, just for standing up for what it is that you believe in, no matter what, because you know that it's right, even when no one else is doing it. Yeah. I have a quick John Thompson thing that, like, I love. It's one of the biggest stories. So there's a gentleman, and D.C., look, not coming at this guy.

Shout out to everybody out to D.C. Shout out to the dudes at D.C. who don't even think that I fuck with them like Erize. I got a homie out in D.C. that just be on my ass. He is going to be great. He is like, he's going to be great.

I've never met a man this persistent in his greatness before. We just got to figure it out. Ereze, you know what I'm talking about. He is, we just got into it again. So shout out to everybody from D.C. Attention to attention kills. It's his web series. Go check it out.

or Wicked Jump Shot is his documentary. Go check it out. Both are really good. Now, so I'm not coming at this brother when I mention this man, but when I tell him, this is a story about John Thompson. So there's a guy in D.C. named Rayful Edmund.

Right. Raifle Edmonds was a dope dealer. He's currently in jail. He was not a regular drug dealer. Rafeel had an estimated the revenue from drugs annually of $300 million. Whoa. Yeah.

So he was getting it. What time period was this? This is the late 80s. Wow. So it was even more than that. Yeah. This was the late 80s, mid to late 80s. By the way, Rayful Edmund is 55.

Rayful Edmund is 65, 55 now. So when he was doing all of this, he was a kid getting it out there in D.C., moving it. Okay. So the reason why I bring this up, you know, Rayful's now gone, they came and got him, he's gone away now. But the reason why I bring this up is because this is John Thompson, this story.

Okay. So I'm going to read this to you, verbatim. Edmund, Rayful Edmund, was an avid fan of the Georgetown Hoyers and frequently sat courtside with his entourage at the Capitol Center for Home Games. At the height of his empire, he became very friendly, Rayful Edmond did, with several Georgetown employees players.

When Georgetown University basketball coach and a DC native, John Thompson confirmed that they were hanging around with Edmunds, with Edmund. He sent word through his sources to have Rayful Edmund, the leader of a $300 million drug operation, meet him in his office. When Edmund arrived, John Thompson was initially cordial

and informed him that he needed to cease all contact with his players. Specifically, John Turner and Alonzo Morning, both who had become friends with Edmund. However, it was his parting words to Edmund that he would face serious consequences if he didn't stay away from his players. Oh.

He was cordial. initially then threatened him. It is believed that Thompson was the only person to ever stand up to Edmund without consequence initially causing some shock and surprise that there was no reprisal for John Thompson. Okay. I'm not going to speak to Rafeel or what he was or what he did or anything like that. What I'm going to tell you is that that is a coach that at least some of the, people believe put his life on the line for his players. He saw an influence that he thought might be

detrimental to them. Okay. Yeah. And he took it upon himself to put himself in harm's way to make sure that they were safe. God bless him. God bless his family. If you are are looking for some place to send your young black college athlete, you can only pray that it's to a man that cares as much about your young athlete as John Thompson cared about his. That's all. Rest and peace of that. Well said.

Before we go, do you have anything to say about the NBA restart? They restart it. They're playing again. I mean, apparently they talked to President Obama who encouraged them to go back and play. That's... Shady, Rage! I mean, that's what they're reporting.

Did you see... No, don't try to make my comments, Shady. Did you see Jamal Murray? Did you see, did you see his post-game interview? I thought that was, that was really sweet. So, what, like, just real quick, because you were very, very, by the way, by the way, I just want to let people know. When you come into my, my DMs and... Were they mad at me again?

They were. When you come into... Nobody came at me. I just want you to know no one came at me. I don't know why. When you come into my DMs, you can come into my DMs with criticisms, you can come into my DMs, whatever,

but make sure you respect the woman at the house. That's all I'm saying. Thank you. Make sure you respect the woman at the house. So when you come in my DMs to talk about my sister or me or anybody in this podcast that may have had an opinion,

be respectful and understand that this is the higher learning team. And so just be respectful. That's all I'm going to tell you out. Thank you. I figured I actually meant to ask you that. Like, listen, I I respect what they're doing

and, you know, look forward to see. I look forward to see more because they said that, I mean, like, it sounds like from their conversation with President Obama, he told him to go play, but they're putting together a plan of how they can be more effective, which is great, which is all that we were saying.

Or I was saying, excuse me, let me not throw you into the thing. I guess that's all that I was saying. No, no, no, no, I'm saying. So, but when you watch the games and you saw what Jamal Murray had to say and you saw the way he used his platform, that that in any way makes you feel a little bit better about to restart? Yes. I mean, when I saw him get emotional and saying, you know, like, it's giving me a reason to play. I'm playing for something bigger than me. And you saw that really resonated with me. That really touched me. I'm not saying I didn't want

them to go back and play. I'm just saying, can we get organized and get and figure out what it is that we're trying to do? But I will be honest, like watching Jamal Murray in that post game, interview. Really, really touched me. Yeah. Shout to Jamal Murray. Can't miss either. He really is playing inspired basketball. All right. Wait, I have an announcement to make. Oh, here we go. Wednesday, September 2nd, 9 p.m. Eastern on MTV. Second season of ghosted airs. You don't want to miss this. Make sure you tune in and watch it.

Thought warriors. Support your girl. I definitely will tune in it. Should we do like a ghosted watch party on the Twitter? I'm down for this. On the Twitter, you want to? I'm down. I'm down to do a ghosted watch party. We need a hashtag MTV ghosted. I'm down. Look, look, Cashmere, all these agents.

Thank you. Cashmere, all these agencies, you ain't even got to pay me. Viacom, keep your bag. Keep your bag, Viacom. You don't even need to pay me. I'm saying right now, support Rach. I say we should do a ghosted watch party Wednesday night. We think of a hashtag.

We do it. It's perfect. I'll put together a hashtag. Right. Thank you. No problem. And you can pay me out of your own pocket. All right.

Thought warriors. We are out of here. Take your thinking caps off, but do not stop thinking and learning. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay. Peace.