Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Spencer Pratt’s Obama Comparisons, Plus Life and ’The Odyssey’ With Jay Pharoah

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

Van and Rachel check in on the California primary races, and discuss Tyler, the Creator's disdain for top-five lists before senior politics reporter at Axios, Marc Caputo, joins to break down the congressional vote on Iran. Plus, comedian and rapper Jay Pharoah sheds light on fame, faith, and impressions. (0:00) Intro (12:18) Spencer Pratt and the L.A. mayoral race (37:03) Tyler, the Creator on top fives (50:46) Marc Caputo on the war powers resolution (1:16:43) Sloane Stephens gets an awkward introduction (1:32:37) Jay Pharoah joins the show Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Jay Pharoah and Marc Caputo Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. Social Producer: Bernard Moore Video Supervision: Chris Thomas and Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. Is Ivan Laysn Jr.? And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Yo, we got Jay Farrell on the show today. It's going to be a good conversation. Surprising interview with Jay Farrell to me.

When we had him on the last time, I can't remember what we were talking about, but it wasn't this conversation. Well, he's in person this time. I changed the energy. Well, yeah, but we still do good interviews. Rachel, are you familiar with the game 82 and O? I'm not.

I'm playing it right now. Well, hello. What? So this is a game. Turn your computer around. That has gone viral where you are given, I swear to God, guys, I'm in no way being paid by these people. It's such a shame you have to say this.

So this is how the game works. You are given, so I play hoop by Q. Basketball. Right. So you're given a team. Okay. Right. It starts off, AT on the 60s.

You spin. So it's like you're trying to build a team that, would go 82 and no that wouldn't lose a basketball game. Oh, wow. So from Utah in the 90s, who do you choose? Well, so unfortunately for everybody that's like listening right now, I got to play the game. And if you have a choice from Utah in the 90s,

the first person that you're going to choose to put that power forward is Marlon. It's Marlon. I'm sorry. The game don't know about different shit that happened. No. I'm trying to win the fucking game. Okay, so then I spin again, right? and it gives me Milwaukee in the 2010s.

Now, here's the thing. Milwaukee in the 2010s, you can go one of two ways here. All right. If you spin again, because you can also change the team once and you can change the era once. Okay. Now, I could put Janice on that bitch, right? I could put Janus on it, Milwaukee in the 2010s.

But I'm not going to do that. I tell you why. You want that position open. If I have Milwaukee, there's somebody else I could get from the 70s that's better than Janice in the 2010s. Yeah. And that would be Karim al-Dur-Jabbar. I'm aware.

Look, I'm not. Rachel, I didn't mean it that way. But how do you know you're going to, because it's Spence again, how do you know you're going to get 70s? I don't know, which is why I'm just going to go ahead and pick Janus. Now, here's the thing, though. I have to be honest with you. Can I ask you a question?

Does it give you how Janus played? in that era or does it or is it just like... Here's the deal. Two different versions of the game. One game gives you statistics the other one does it. Yonis played a lot of years

and got off to a slower start. This is I ask good questions. Right, there you go. So his overall for the 2010s might not be as hard as niggas but we don't go with Janus anyway because I don't feel like spinning it right now because since Janus is already there,

I don't feel like spinning it again to try to get to try to get another fucking player and also something else about Janus that you have to consider. Janus has so many different positions on here that if I get another player, I can move Yonis around to a different spot.

Oh, okay, so you can move because he's in multiple positions. Okay, okay. Right. I can see how you can get addicted to this game by the way. It's over. Yeah, I can see it. Right now I have Carballone.

I'm kind of in terms. But I put Yonis at center right now. Is it free? It's free. It's free. It's free. It's free. Giannis and small forward, I can do whatever I want.

I can do whatever the fuck I want. So how do you know, once you build your team, how do you know you go 82 and out? The computer tells you after you pick the last player. Okay. So right now I got. This is also a great way for people to learn the game of basketball, by the way. I think so.

Like learn like players and stuff like that. Donnie, is Donnie there? I am, yes. Donnie, I got Detroit in the 20s. I got to be honest with you. I feel like I want to change the team right here. you do uh you're trying to go to detroit in the 80s well no i want to change the team oh you want to change the team so i heard what you heard

don't do that yeah yeah yeah don't change the team go okay and put kate in there right now i got kade carmalone and and um and yonis that's i guess that's that's straight case the era or go kade yeah okay okay let's go kate let's see let's see let's put some respect on detroit i'm with you don't you if i get if i would have changed the team and I got like Luca or somebody like that. We out of here. We out of here. We out of here if I do that.

But I'm going with Donnie because Donnie loves for you. My name is Donnie. I love Detroit. That's how you sound. So I'm going to keep that. Okay, we're going to spin again. We're going to spend again. So far, we got Carl Malone at Power Fort.

We got Janice at Center. But we can still move Janice around. How is the smart as the computer? Because what if it gave you like Oklahoma City 90s? and then you get nobody. That happens all the time. But then you have to waste a team or an era. Rachel, this is the game.

Do you know how many of these franchises ain't shit? No. Or didn't exist? No, no, no, no. That was my point. It'll give you Seattle. Seattle signs. It would have done.

So it would do that. Right. Oh, okay, okay. All the players are for the franchise. Okay, okay, okay. So you might be Brooklyn, but it's that also the dressing next. I see what you mean. I misunderstood the question.

Okay. So I'm spinning again. Bam, a bumbatta. Brooklyn in the 20s. Guess what? Great pick. Do you know why? Kevin fucking Durant.

That's who I'm putting on this bitch. We have the chance right now legitimately to go 82 and O. Like, let me go to KD. KD. Durant. That's his fucking name. Kevin fucking Durant. Rachel knows him.

So, let's see. Can't find him on there? Here he is right here. Kevin Durant. Okay, so so far right now, live, y'all think I'm bullshit. I'm not going to turn my computer around. Live. I have Janice, Carl Malone, Kay Cunningham, and Kevin Durant.

I still have both my team and my era switch available. You got it. All right. Donnie, I'm going to spend one last time here. Detroit in the 70s. Can't fuck with it. Okay. the question is

I have both a team and an era switch should I switch the team or should I switch the error there's really no one else from Detroit that can help me I'm a beyond switch with you all right switch to team

which position is open again so small forward is open but you could move some of your players I could move yonis to small forward I can move kD to small forward right what I really want is a bomb ass center if I could get if I could fuck with

like wilt or cream out du jubbar I'm gonna change the team. I'm going to go A to and a. So, but I need Wilk from the 70s. You have a longed, Kevin, you know. Okay, yeah. Okay, or I need Jabbar from the 70s.

So let's change the team. That's what I say. Yeah, change the team. Let's, we need Milwaukee. We need Milwaukee. You already got it, so he's not getting it again. We need Milwaukee. We need Milwaukee.

Let's go. Team change. Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Milwaukee. Indiana. Okay. Oosh. Oh, wait a minute, though. In the 70s, though.

Alex English. This team could, rock. Do it. Alex English. But do I change the era? Do I go with Alex English and put him in because this nigga was bomb? Or do I change the era?

Who else? But you want a big man. Well, now it's just about what's left because if there's no center from Indiana that's really going to help me because they got Rick Smiths and that bitch. Okay? So that's the only one. So I got it. I feel like I got to kind of rock, right?

Because I can't change the team. Changing the era. What's the best player I can get from the here? history of Indiana. That's a center? No, well, it's small four left so I could still get like Reggie. I was going to say Reggie. Remain O'Neill. What I'm saying is, I'm looking at all

of these people. So what do you think? Do I go with Alex English, who I know had crazy numbers in the 70s? It was one of the best. Just do it. Go for it. Go for it. We got to go. Boom. Nah, that shit was whack. What did they give you? Man. Alice English was more of an 80s player, man.

I got fucked in the... What did they give you? All of this shit was fucked up. What was the... 66 and 16, this team. Oh, wow. Is that one of the worst ones you've had? It's not one of the worst ones. It's actually not...

It's the best one. Okay, let me tell you, it's not one. I went 82 and O. Who was your team? My team, my 82 and O team. Did you see how he looked at me when he said, 82 and O? Like, he himself went 82. Like, he was actually on the team.

So, hold on for a second. Really, you know who hurt me? Who? Yonis hurt me. Yonis is only really useful from the 2020s. I said. I said, which one. But I didn't know which game you were playing if it was based on where they were during that time.

Because you said there were two versions. So my 82 and O is, my 82 and O was, now we can get to the podcast after this. You guys, you know what? Don't judge us for getting into different shit like this. Play the fucking game. The game is fun. Donnie played. Donnie, what's the best you ever went?

80 and 2. Close. Yeah. That's good. Who was on your 80 and 2 team? I had Trey Young, Michael Jordan, Adrian Dantley, Jimmy Butler, and Kareem. Okay, so. Oh, there's an NFL version.

Yeah, the NFL version. That's tough. That's a lot of people on the team. That's tough. So my 82 and O was, hold on for a second, my 82 and O was Luca Dodgick at point guard, Mitch Richmond at shooting guard, Michael Jordan, at Small Forward Chris Weber at Powerford

and this is the cheat code Kareem Abdul-Jabbar from the Milwaukee 1970s at center to win the game you pretty much almost have to have Kareem from the 70s or Wilt from the 60s.

You get Wilt from the 60s you could put Rudy Harch Mora out there. For some reason the game does love Will Chamberlain like that. This bitch has been taking up a lot of my time. I can see why. I love this type of shit.

I mean, we just played it on the podcast. That was an excuse for you to get one more in this morning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not mad at it, though. I'm looking at it. I'm like, okay, I'm my picture. I think that the ringer should do a game like this, and I have an idea.

I have a pitch. This is the game. We should do. Maybe you should save it. No, no, because they're not going to do it. Yeah, you're about to put it out there. But they're not going to do it anyway. So I might as well share it with the people.

All right? They're not going to do it anyway. Because remember the movie grid game? I talked about years ago. So much fucking fun. Shout out to the movie grid guys. The movie grid game. The ringer should do a Ewing theory game.

And the way that this game will work. Are you familiar with Bill's Ewing theory? You guys know it? No. So Bill has the Ewing theory and it's like a team loses their best player and somehow they become better. Like Patrick Ewing got hurt in 99. The Knicks went to the finals. What they should do is take an all-time great team.

Okay. Then have you remove their best player and then build a team of people from that same era that could beat that team with the best player. Like a Ewing theory type game. That's fun. It's a fun game. Like take the 2000 Lakers, take Shaq off the 2000 Lakers. Then you got to build a team of those Lakers that could beat that team without Shaq. Maybe you fuck up something.

You do a couple of different things, whatever. A game like that. Fuck it. Maybe that sucks. But you do a game. we should have our own game. I want our own game. We should have a game.

Great. We'll build a high learning game. We're a basketball motherfuckers. Why we don't have no game? Talk to Bill. Mark Caputo is also going to join us today to talk about the War Powers Resolution and stuff like that. So we've got a lot of stuff going on right now. Let's get into that.

Let's get into politics. Let's get into the L.A. mayoral race. Yeah. In the latest results, the gap between Spencer Pratt and city council member Nithia Rahman slightly narrowed, but Pratt continues to hold. a sizable lead. That's for the number two spot. Karen Bass has already secured her position in the November ballot.

Any surprises for you now, you know, a lot of these prediction markers, do you pay attention to that shit? Here in the house. Cali, fucking all that. For some reason.

Oh, yes. Everybody's making money off of this with Cali. Yeah, fuck all that dumb ass shit. But like everybody is, they're bullish on ramen being second. All the prediction markets have her.

Right now she's up on Cali at least. Up to 71% now, just so people know, we voted on Tuesday, but just like... How many, what's the percentage of the precincts that are in? I think it's like 62? That's what I see last, but this also says it was updated 18 hours ago, so... Well, I mean, they still count votes. So Spencer Pratt and Karen Bass were the one and the two. It always takes California a long time to count their votes.

I know specifically a lot of people that voted mail-in, they drop ballots, and there were a lot of round of voters that were in there. And I think also, well, one, there was a lot of strategy behind voting for Rahman for people. And then two, I guess, and I, yeah, was I, no, I did live here then. What am I saying? When it was Caruso and Bass, there was a big change at the end with all the votes, like seven points or something like that. So the governor's race seems to be less controversial. It seems pretty evident in the governor's race that the top two. will be Steve Hilton and Xavier.

But why is that? I'm looking at as the only 56% are in. Is it based on which percentages are, I mean, precincts are in? Because 56%, I feel like there could still be a huge change. You know, if we're talking about what I just gave the example of Caruso and Bass in the last mayoral race, then why couldn't Steyer get a seven point jump or something like that?

He might. They would have to break for him pretty, pretty dramatically, but I guess it's the same thing with Rahman. Do you have So now what's going to happen is this. If in fact Spencer Pratt did not make the top two, all of the rich asshole crybabies

that are backing him are going to claim some sort of voter fraud. Trump's already doing it by the way. They're already dipping into that. If Spencer Pratt does not get into the top two, so be it you run the race and then you have a long time until November. Things quiet down

probably in the summer and then they ratchet back up around the fall. People normally take a break from this shit during the summer and then they come back. Do you have a problem, though, with the way the slowness of California is finding, vote counting? Why don't I remember it being this slow last time? I know, I know, but I just don't remember it. I mean, I think the slowness gives room for people to criticize voting here. Like I said, Trump's already claiming voter fraud.

And it's like, why is it always so slow in California? Oh, they must be up to something. It just gives more fuel to the conspiracy theories of voter fraud and all of that and California being corrupt for those people who choose to believe it. So, like, yeah, of course I would. I mean, the fact that it's June 4th, we're two days past it and we're still talking about maybe this person, maybe not. Like, I'd rather it just be us know in the morning, the morning of the next day.

I would say, though, that there's a part of me that believes that the reason why the vote counts are so slow is so that the process can be more thorough. A lot of people voting. I'm a lot of people voting. I don't think that there's widespread, rampant vote. Oh, I don't think that at all. I think it just gives room for people to try to say that. But, yeah, I think you're right. Also the provisional ballot is a real thing.

And like, because I saw some MAGA influencer saying he was able to vote, drove in, was it was able to vote, doesn't live here. And people are like, well, one, you didn't actually show yourself going through the process. You could literally just be holding up a sticker. But two, it's a provisional ballot. They're going to thoroughly check you out and make sure you actually live here. That's the word provisional. And three, thank you for just admitting to everybody that you committed voter fraud. And everybody was sending his info to the Secretary of State.

Prosecute him in jail. Some of these changes are post-COVID. They wanted to make sure that they gave everybody an opportunity to vote. If you are a registered voter in California, you get a mail-in ballot. Everybody gets a mail-in-ballot. All those ballots are valid, ballots are valid, as long as they're postmarked by election day. So it is not just, you know, something that you can do. voting by mail and dropping ballots in California

is something that seems to be prioritized here. So, you know, after COVID, we want to make sure that everybody could participate in that stuff. Some of those changes came in. So now we are basically counting votes that people cast different times. The question is reaching for the words, reaching for the words. Said a lot of words to get through. The question is whether or not those votes are going to break.

for ramen and for Steyer in order to make it Democrat versus Democrat in November. Even still, though, even if they did. If they get in? Or what? It does seem like, not just from

accounting of the vote's standpoint, it seems like culturally California is more open to red leadership than they've ever been before. There's cultural movements.

Let's not, Let's say that the voters don't reflect this. But there seems to be a cultural shift that is making both Hilton and Pratt more viable as candidates in California. Do you think it's a cultural shift towards Republicans to the Red? Or do you think it's just a cultural shift in distrust for the government, not having candidates that people feel are so strong?

A lot of people feel like they thought Colin Harris was going to run. then she didn't. They thought maybe one of the senators would run. They didn't for governor, I'm talking about. And then they felt like they had a cast of candidates who they weren't really confident in, who they weren't really excited about. If that's the cultural shift you're talking about, I feel more of that. I feel more people are not happy with the options that they have. They're not as excited. And whether that's the people as an individual, whether that's parties, a distrust of that, or whether that's just a distrust of government in general. I'm not sure. That's the shift I see more than I see it more towards the red. Well, you're definitely right. Shift is in the way that I mean it just means a change, a shift, whatever. You're definitely right. I don't know.

You know, it's difficult for me to kind of, for me to judge or litigate certain people's priorities because you never know what they really are. So I talked about before that here in California, there's people are saying that there's a red mirage that's happening right now. But I happen to believe that in California there is a blue mirage. There is a progressive mirage that exists in parts of this state. Particularly in Los Angeles. Well, I do believe that there are a lot of pissy, whiny, rich assholes who are, they were, refuse to put anything in context so much so they don't even put their vote in context,

right? Because if you were looking to change in Los Angeles, the next thing wouldn't just this is the thing that always gives me about like you vote for change. You do vote for change. You vote for change. But it still matters what the change is. Of course. Right? It still matters what the change is. What are you changing to? So if you think that crime is running rampant in California, the question is not whether or not you should change to a candidate that is tougher on crime or that has, what are you changing to? Have you heard anything from Pratt, any plan from Pratt that makes you believe that Spencer Pratt can execute what it is that he's saying, he's saying that he's doing. And so to me, well, to, concepts of like, but like to me, that's what,

that's what I look at. So everybody that's, you know, making videos in front of their house talking about how fucking bad shit is. That was Doug Ellen from I was trying to figure out who he was. From Entourage. Entourage great show. Okay. I've seen that video. Yes. The video very impassioned. He's up there talking his shit and talking about what him and his neighbors are going through and

I get all of that. He lives in Beverly Hills. So the question is, what have you heard that makes you believe that the person that you are supporting can get this stuff done? And the reason why I ask that question is because those are the questions that you're supposed to

ask of a public servant. We actually get bad public servants because people, number one, don't follow through with the things that they say they're going to do, but also because people vote on vibes. They vote on anger. They vote on emotion. So, you know, with everyone that's voting for these candidates, Hilton's a little different, but everyone that's voting for these candidates, I haven't heard them make a compelling case as for what Spencer Pratt's going to do to clean up.

the streets. No, they, it's just a very anti-Caron Bass, and that's literally the narrative they're running on. And that's why people like talk about Spencer's success on social media, because that some of that campaign and that messaging, people are, you know, like, it's, it's permeating throughout, I guess, the conversations that are with the type of people that are standing behind him, because they are repeating some of his same talking points without there being any depth behind it. I think one of the most infuriating things to me when I saw that video of the person that you were talking about and he's not alone is obviously your house is broken into you're upset. You want, you know, like it's personal for you. There's a difference.

But are you aware at all that Karen Bass heavily supports funding the police and believes we don't have enough? So I just don't understand why people are like, got to get her out of there as if she's not a person. who like fully supports by the union the union was against her the last time now the union's for her so I just don't understand and and when I talk to people because you know I got to talk to billy bush you guys were tagging me all in the video don't worry I saw it I talked to bill in a couple of weeks when I get back from traveling um I don't when I talk to people and they they say well you know like the crime is just everywhere and then I tell them how Karen Bass supports it they're like oh didn't know that. So then my messaging, I guess, to, you know, Karen Bass's campaign is,

y'all got to figure out how to step into 2026 with social media in the way that we saw and get creative with it to where your messaging lands and people are using your talking points like we saw with Mom Donnie. He was very creative in what he did. Spencer Pratt is as well. And because I just don't understand why people don't know that. I just don't, like, that's so simple. your friend is a dick rider oh billy yeah yeah so that's the thing with him so we're gonna talk about i listened to billy bush talk about um that's okay you know it's like he was really excited to talk to talk to he said that spencer pratt is uh don't prepare spencer pratt has and that that is a talking point spencer pratt said that a month ago on camera Barack Obama is a was a constitutional

law professor and the editor of the Harvard Law Review and both a state senator and a U.S. Senator. Spencer Pratt is not like Barack Obama. Spencer Pratt came from the hills and I'm not in any way. Like, hey, reality show people. Shout out to them. We know a lot of reality show. Hey, reality show people.

This is a TMZCA. I'm not in any way getting them. I'm not bona fides and all it is. Appeal to authority shit. I'm just saying that he's not, saying that he's like Barack Obama is dick riding. And I know that Billy Bush is a dick rider because I heard him with one of the most breathtaking dick rides that has ever happened. And of course, that was on the Access Hollywood tape where Donald Trump was bragging about being able to assault people. And Billy Bush was like, yeah, get him, Donnie.

Yeah, score one for the Trumpster. Okay. So I'm not That's how he was being on that bitch And you guys, I'm not making this personal Whatever, I'm not making this personal I'm just saying, you know That happened

That was something that happened So like, and a lot of this Going back to it has nothing to do with actual policy, it has nothing to do with that stuff It has to do with a class of people That are angry That their beloved playground Like I said before

It's being sullied And they want somebody to come in And crack a whip and who better than this specific crack that whip. So to me, like, if any of this was based in something that I could intellectually wrap my mind around, I would get it, like legitimately. Here are the numbers. Here's the problem.

Here's the deal. This is how we attack it. But it's not. It's vibes voting. And this is kind of the way we got to the point that we are around. That is exactly the way. It's not kind of. It's exactly the way.

And what's interesting in that clip that I saw, and I'm going to talk about this to him, The interesting in the clip that I saw where he compares him to Barack Obama, he doesn't compare his resume. He doesn't say that they're aligned in that way. He looks at, he says, I haven't seen anyone gather people together and rally them together and make them feel this kind of hope, right? Which was Barack Obama's messaging. And I sat there, I listened to that and I'm like, only a white person would say that. because you don't understand what that hope meant. It wasn't, like, hope is not the thing that Spencer Pratt is even preaching out here or campaigning on.

But you want to use the word hope to link him to Barack Obama. You don't understand what that hope actually meant in 2008. And that's why I say only a white person could say that, because for a black person, that hope was more than just policy and issues. It's what Barack Obama himself represented by stepping into that office. because of what a person like Barack Obama represented from the moment that black people came to this country. And that is how I will, the conversation I will have with him. But like it is highly offensive

because you're taking something that was so meaningful to a certain community and it's so disconnected and you're using a word and you're not even applying it the same way. And I'm just, and I think that's why I get so annoyed and passionate about it whenever I talk about the Spencer proud of it all because it is so obvious as I have, we keep saying, that it's a particular community

that is being served. I don't care if Spencer Pratt is saying that he's with, uh, with the Crips or, you know, down having conversation. Hmm?

You down with the second? He's apparently said he was with, uh, is it rolling 60s? Just be careful. This is him claiming this. You're saying, you know, so that he's like,

oh yeah, bragging about it. He was on no jumper talking about it or something like. that. So. He was on no jumper saying he's down with the role in 60s. He met with them. Oh, okay. I don't know if these were down, but you met with them.

My point being is that he does it. He is not here to serve anybody else. So when you talk about hope, when you talk about when you want to like use names like Barack Obama, like please be careful when you say that kind of stuff because you're just talking in a very flippant way and not understanding the gravity of that kind of rhetoric. And I'll talk to him about it. I talked about it. Spencer Pratt blocked me, by the way.

Oh, there you go. I'm not offended by Spencer Pratt's run. I'm not offended by Billy Blish's support for Spencer Pratt. I'm not offended by any of it. I'm not offended by that comparison. None of it offends me. It's just some dick riding. And have to call it out as such.

None of it offends me. None of this. This is the process. My issues with all of this stuff, I'm not about to, I understand everything that you're saying. I'm not going to hold water for Mayor Bass. Did not vote for her. Voted to the left of Mayor Bass.

Okay? I'm not going to even hold water for our beloved Barack Obama after all of this time. But the reality of Barack Obama's life is that Barack Obama had had a life in public service. Barack Obama had had a life dedicated to deep, deep scholarship and intellectualism. Barack Obama had achieved elected office. He had earned his shot meteorically. Medioric Ross, I don't know if Meteorical lose a word, he had earned his shot at going

for that office and got there with the country being and just fucked up enough of a state that people would be like, I'll get the nigga a chance. Okay, so all of that stuff is true of Barack Obama. Barack Obama did not walk off of a film set or a podcast to go try to be the president of the United States of America. Now, once again, if you were to do that, that is fine.

Americans, this is not an appeal to authority. Americans saying, hey, I see shit being fucked up and wrong. I am now going to go and try to change that stuff for myself. I have no problem with that. I think that's a part of who we are and who we're supposed to be. What I do have a problem with all of the time is people getting to places because of the cut of their jib. That is white boy shit. People get into places just because they can.

can like whatever. That is white boy shit. That to me is something that is exclusively reserved for a certain segment of the population. I don't fuck with it. I need to hear from politicians actionable plans that they can put in that will change the substantive reality of people's life, the substance of their life. And he doesn't even try to do that because he's got a bunch of dick riders and a bunch of people who look at him as basically a puppet for their class. That's That's the way that I look at it. I do not take offense to him running. I believe people should feel so frustrated and passionate about whatever it is that they stand on

that it might cause them to like want to make a change of difference. I'm not mad at that. I'm not, or I should say I'm not offended by that. I'm not offended by him throwing his name in the hat. I do get offended when you start making remarks like comparing the life of Barack Obama to a Spencer Pratt, because the fact that you can even fix your mouth to say that says a lot. That is offensive to me. What you're going to say to Billy?

Someone what I just said now. But I'm going to say, you only said, only a white person would say that. Because you have no understanding of. No, Billy's going to say to you? What is Billy going to say to me? So you be yourself, I'm going to be Billy. Okay. Now, Billy, I saw, I saw what you said on camera about Barack Obama and how you believe that

Spencer Pratt has some of the energy and is able to gather and corral people and make them feel hope similar to our former president Barack Obama. Now, Billy, you know, only a white person would say that. I'm not just any white person, though. Well, who are you? I know presidents.

Let me tell you how I know presidents. I'm not sure if you realize. I'm not sure if you realize, but I got presidents in my family. See, you think that you're going to come and talk to me B.B. And tell me about the president. Did you know that my cousin H. Dub was the president?

Did you know that my other cousin, W. was the president? Uncle, cousin, whatever. They were in the office. H. Dub got there. My cousin W got there. My other cousin Jeb would have got there, except for the fact that Trump, a guy that, you know,

hey, go Donnie. I don't know if you heard me talking to him. And it's like, I apologize again to everyone. He would have got there except for the fact that he was one of the worst political candidates that the right put up ever. Terrible. Had the personality of a Ruta Bega. Okay. But you don't tell me about presidents, little Ms. Thang?

My ancestors were on the Mayflower. You don't tell me about presidents. I eat Thanksgiving with presidents. I'm B-motherfucking B. And if I say he's like Obama, then that's who he's like. Because deep down, you know that Obama is my nigger, meaning that I owned him.

Okay. Wow. Wow. I was like, how's this going on? Their ancestors were on the Mayflower, though. That's crazy to me. Is that a fact? Yeah, the bushes, their ancestors were on the Mayflower.

It's something like that. I have no idea. I'm not pushing back. I just don't know. The ancestors, they had, there's a thought. They had answers was on the Mayflower This is how far

That shit goes back I mean we're going back Prescott Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush All of this stuff I can't wait for you talking When you talking to him again? In the couple weeks

Excited about it Why are people tagging you and shit that he said Because they're thought warriors I remember I said before That I was going to talk to Billy Bush The last time we The last time we Talked because I

This is how I got blocked by Spencer Because I was like I don't give a fuck what he has to say Babba blah blah blah He only gives a shit about himself and then somebody told me to look at something on his page and when I went to look I was like I don't know if I've ever been blocked before

and I went to look and I was like wait, it says there's a loading error and then I looked at somebody else's I think it was like Heidi's and I could and then I went back and I was like oh shit I guess he blocked me um Spencer Pratt has not blocked me on Twitter as matter of fact me and Spencer Pratt are following each other on Twitter on Twitter um

would love to have Spencer Pratt on I would too all of these things. You know, I will say this. So you've never been blocked by a celebrity before? No, if I have, I don't know. Oh, yeah. We've talked about this before.

Ashton Cutcher blocked me back in the day. No. Did he unblock you? I don't think so. I think I'm probably still blocked by Ashton Cush. You know, he was on my season. What do you mean he was on it? You said you watched it.

I watched parts of him. He and Meal are big Bachelor fans that they wore at the time and they came on to do a host a date. they did kareem abdul jabar did damn oh no I thought he had unblocked me no look he still got me on Twitter what did you say I didn't say anything he blocked everybody

everyone from TMZ okay all right fair he would just if you were on TMZ he just would straight up blocked he would block he would block everybody from teams that makes sense so he so I'm blocked by Ashton Cutcher I remember back I was in the office

and they went they were talking about Ashen Couch and they were like oh man you're probably blocked I was like, what? Why would he block me? Like, if you get seen on here, they're like, who's the new guy? And he blocks you. So I went there and he blocked me.

Ash and Kuchel Kutchev. It's really nice. Stuff. He's a really nice guy. Blocking people for no reason. Fuck Ashen Kuchin. I remember they looked around on my date and they were like, none of these guys are for you.

That's what they told me off camera. They were like, none of them. They told you that? They ended up being right. He wasn't on that date, but still. Oh, daddy. They were right. All right.

Let's move on. What should we do next? Donnie's choice. Let's do the Tyler, the creator one. I think that'll be a good conversation. Tyler was on a recent episode of DJ Drama's Gangsta Grills podcast, and he had this to say about discussions and debates around top five lists. I think people who fixate on objective top fives are fucking lame.

Like, I'd rather hear people talk about the shit they like and love and their favorites instead of who's. the best based on numbers or hit like who gives a fuck like people really be arguing like how dare you not put so-and-so on of all time like what if you just told me who your personal favorites were and the shit you like and then explain it and maybe you'll put me on some new shit instead of us sitting here arguing about like that's crazy you care about another niggas top five list when you're on your way to work like go get a fucking hobby it truly blows my mind Girl, how dare you not put pony Tony on top five?

He killing niggas, you heard his verse on so-and-so. He rapped from the perspective of a hot dog. Like, oh, but what's your favorite song on that album? I don't really listen to that album. So what albums do you listen to? But people aren't selfish enough to like, hey, this is what I like, check this out. This is what I learned about it.

This is how I grew from this. This is when I heard it. Like, that shit is crazy. Was that album? And I do not give a fuck about an objective top Rushmore because I'm doing my own thing, like, whatever. But I think everyone should have their own personal rushmore of things that they heard when they were 7, 14, 2840 that changed their life that makes them feel a certain way

that that's their personal favorite shit. Do you feel attacked? No. Do you feel like the Van Leighton is on? under attack? Not at all. Okay. Not at all.

As a matter of fact, I thought about Pony Tony's raps, man. I know why he rapping from the perspective of a hot dog. Why? Because Pony Tony being them buns. Is this why you wanted to do this topic?

Ew. What? The fact that you can make your lip queer. What? What? Do it again. Get closer.

Um, look, you know, this is another treatise on dick ride. That's what he really was. You saw what this was? That was. Without a doubt. I actually liked what he had to say.

I like what he had to say. Yes, he's of course he's a thousand percent right. You know what he's talking about? What? He's talking about the people a couple of days ago. You know, I'm in my shit. You know, I'm in the car. I'm listening to a random

mix on title because I still have title. Yes, you tell us. And then you know what comes on? What? Bish, I ride till I die. Lord knows it's safe. And I love it. And I love it.

We count hundreds on the table. 20s on the floor. Fresh shot the working on the way for some more. And I love it. I listen to Jeezzy, nigger. Jeezie. I'm thinking to myself, is there anybody who I really,

really? How many rappers do I really like listening to more than I like listening to Jesus, standing ovation. You know what I'm saying? And I'll go and I tweet. You know what? Jeezy's in my top 10.

Oh, I didn't see this. Jeezy's in my top 10. Okay. My top 10 of people. And not only Jeezy, juvenile in my top 10. Obviously. And my top 10 includes Jeezy. It includes juvenile.

Those are two people that are in my top 10. Yes. Right? And then people come Oh y'all niggas want to kid Blah blah blah It was a bunch of pony tony niggas That came in there

It was like you can't tell me That GZ Rap better than Fly Session Number 35 You know what I'm saying And I'm like I like

It's your list It's my list I think your list matters more than any objective list Of course Because if we're just talking about Niggers who could rap Then that's subjective

as well as well for sure sometimes there is a little bit you have to be objective in a way there has to be some objectivity if you're talking about just like who's the best right who's the best because you know

I'm gonna come out and tell y'all niggas that youngblee I'm listening to niggas rap young with my balls my wear it like I like that's the type of shit I like but he's right what he's saying is that a conversation around what moves you is a better conversation than a conversation that is an appeal to authority,

an appeal to some hip-hop authority. Because at the end of the day, that becomes nut-licking and dick riding. Like, how could you have somebody ahead of this person? Like, no. It's like, that's not as interesting as a conversation about why an artist or their art means something to you specifically.

I loved it. I loved everything he had to say. I immediately thought about the Van Leighton, and I thought, oh, no, is he going to feel like this is a personal thing? I didn't know. I'm glad it's not. Oh, you thought I was saying.

Because you make your own list. All kinds of different lists. You know, and we do Mount Rushmore's, which I actually do think amount Rushmore is an interesting conversation. It doesn't have to be about rap, just about anything. But, again, we're asking somebody their personal, not to debate it, because it does give you insight

into what they like, why they like it, how they tick. And then again, to his point, you might learn something you don't know about an artist or if it's movies or food or whatever it may be. I loved this. And it reminds me of why, you know, I'm a fan of Tyler of the Creator. Now, an objective top 10 list or something like that, it has its place if you're talking about deep criticism. But not everybody is qualified to make an objective top 10. Oh, for sure. And we've talked about that on this podcast.

When we have lists of, you know, it's like top best 20 songs of the 2000s or whatever it may be. And we always talk about, like, debate them and talk about how like, why they don't really matter. If you go make an objective top five hip-hop list, you have to have listened to all of these people's records. You have to know all of their stories. You have to put their sales, their influence, their cultural impact. into context, most people aren't even qualified to make an objective top five or top 10 list of things because that requires deep scholarship into what it is that you're talking about, right?

You have to literally be able to point to the rise of Raqqq him, his influence on the people behind him, and then be able to weigh that influence versus commercial success, lyrical ability, depth of all of that. There's just not as many people as y'all think that they are that can sit down and make a list, an objective list of the top 10 MCs. Most lists are your list. Yeah.

Right? Because you ain't about to tell me, if you ain't never heard Scarface, you ain't about to, I'm not going to listen to you. You're not going to put like 10 fucking niggas that is all from the West Coast or all from the East Coast and then tell me, and then Scarface is not going to be on your list.

You have a list in the Scarface. If you haven't listened to him, how you know he's not number seven. Jeezy. Jesus is great. You ever seen Jeezy a concert? No, I don't like concerts. I don't like concert. Maybe you would like the one he does with, you know, the orchestra?

The orchestra behind him. Everybody gets dressed up. I hear it's like an affair. Like people get dressed up, you know, but like they're listening to this trap music and nice clothes. It's like a whole thing. But then like you got to leave though. And like. And what's the problem with?

Yeah, you got to go home. Yeah, yeah. I know, but like, it's like a lot of people in the parking lot. Do you not go to sporting events? Not really. Not like talking about. Because, like, you go there and then you have a good time. And then it's like, okay, I got to go.

And then you leave. You got to use the bathroom first, but then you got to leave. There's a bunch of people in the parking lot and there's people sitting around. This is such a half cup, mental, half cup full mentality. I don't know what the half cup full. What the fuck? What you want right now? What are you on that shit?

No, you are. I apologize. It's such a negative. thing. If you, if you, the whole time if at a concert, you're worried about what the parking, the traffic in the parking lot, yeah, maybe you should stay home. That's awful. What's awful about it? Because you're not in the moment.

You're not enjoying the experience. You're more focused about the traffic after. Maybe while you're sitting in traffic, you can listen to the music that you were experienced at the show. Maybe you all could talk about what you like, didn't like, whatever. That's usually what happens. We still singing the songs. You up. Wow. When I leave

That's tough When I leave right So I'm in that bitch Let's say I went to the GZ concert Right You know Last I heard I was the man in the streets

You know what I'm saying And so I mean I was like I'm fucking Do do Do That's all there So I'm listening to

I'm in that shit And then I'm in the parking lot And I'm still up And then I'm like Why don't you go Go Go Go

Go. I'm letting you go. Go. I'm back to music and stuff like that. And then I'm like, yo, man, what the fuck is going on? Are we ever going to get out this bitch? And then about five or six minutes after, you know, I'm through all the records that I love I'm from T. And I'm like, yo, was it worth coming out here for me to be frustrated in this moment?

Oh, my gosh. Was it worth me coming out here is late? I'm not going to get good sleep. my eyebag is going to be crazy the next day. Was it worth it for me to drive to the Hollywood Bowl, for me to drive whatever, and now I got to fight traffic to get back. Was it worth it for me to come out here?

No, Van, it wasn't. Not if that's how you see it. So none of what I say resonates. Donnie, before we move on, like none of what I'm, by the way, you know how I know it resonates? Because I look up at a Laker game, and if the game is decided with five minutes late,

they fucking clear out the staples. That's true. Nobody waits for seeing I love that leg. Yeah, sometimes I go. Sometimes I go. You really are turning in an unc. I mean, you ain't turned. You're there.

You are all the way there. Why you got to remind me? I want to bring you back. I'm trying to bring you back. And you know where it starts. It's everyday people. I don't think you're going to make it. Crowds.

But look, everyday people is different, though, because you can get in and out of there. Plus. Yes, you can, but there's a lot of people. But there's a lot of people. There's something else that I do at places like this, and you know, because you have gone out with, what do I do? When all y'all are out partying, y'all having a good time, we had a party.

Oh, you Irish accent. Bye. Van. I'd be like, where's Van? He left. He left. He left. Bing bang.

Head it home. Out of here. I don't think I've ever been in an event like that with you longer than an hour. No. Done. My feet hurt. Everybody's talking. Like, you have.

The next thing I know Collica walks up with me and she'd be like, I'm like, oh, okay. left. Bye. I'm so the opposite. No, nigga, you like to shut the fucking party down. I'm the worst. Like Rachel, Rachel likes to shut the fucking party down. And I'll walk in and I'll be like, I'm so tired.

I'm probably only going to say an hour. I'm probably only going to say an hour. Next thing I know, nobody's there. It's like time does not exist. They're like security. Like, they're shutting it down. They'll be like, it's time to go out. And I'm like, man, where are the time to go?

I'm having such a good time. Every time. Back in the day, when I first learned this about Rachel, some years ago, there was a party at Issa Rays thing. I can't remember what this was for. Remember the rooftop party at Issa Rays thing? Yes. And you didn't even want to come to the party. No, because it was fresh off the divorce. I remember this.

Rachel didn't even want to come to the party. Rachel's, I don't know if I'm going to go, but everybody was at there. There was actually a nice little joint right there. Oh, yeah, yeah. So everyone was on the route. We go to the party and everything like that. And all of a sudden, Rachel didn't want to come to the party. I look around and the bunny hop is on.

And Rachel has become the bunny. the bunny has like taken over Rachel's body. I thought you left by that. No, Rachel has become the bunny. And Rachel is, Rachel is doing the thing. I'm like showing them a different version. Y'all know this one?

Yeah. And it's like, y'all ever know when someone's doing one of them dances and they get so into it that they clap because they're so, because they're like, I'm like, oh, Rachel, it's like, because there's no clapping that bitch.

You just like, you bunny hopping. And Rachel's just like, I'm like, oh shit. I'm like, I'm like, look at Rachel. Going fucking crazy. Every time. I look at you. I'm like, you don't want to come. out, huh? And going crazy.

Like, cutting up. You know what when I said that to you? When I was leaving. I am what they call an extrovert. On the other side of his break, we're going to talk to Mark Caputo from Axios about the war powers resolution

vote that took place in Congress. Does this mean anything? Does this make anything substantially different? And where do we stand with possible U.S. hostility? with these. This spring,

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and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. With Cuba. He's going to answer these questions on the other side of that break. Okay, there's been a vote in Congress on a resolution to end Trump's war in Iran, exercise in Iran, whatever you want to call it, Operation Epic Fury.

Some Republicans have broken with the Republican establishment, which is, of course, made up of the whims of President Trump, and voted for a resolution to end the war. What does this really mean, though? We could try to explain it to you, but we're not going to. We're going to leave that up to Mark Caputo. Senior Politics reporter at Axios, over 20 years covering national politics. I saw him on CNN election night. I thought that the highlight of your career was coming on higher learning and talking to us, but it looks like... It was.

You got good viewership. We appreciate you. Formerly of political, NBC News, Miami Herald, all of that stuff. All right, Mark, let's talk about it. For the average American that's wondering when this war will end, when prices will begin to stabilize in terms of oil, they're paying at the pump, everything's more expensive. What does this vote in Congress mean? It just means, as you said, that there are more Republicans who are growing uneasy with what's happening in Iran. The problem that the anti-war side or the critics of President Trump have is the likelihood of this getting through the Senate is pretty slight.

And then even so is Donald Trump really still wants to stick through this. In fact, if you would have listened to the Secretary of State Marco Rubio's testimony before Congress a few days ago, I've lost track of the days. I'm sorry. He said that the war is over. So they're not even agreeing on the, the idea that there's technically still a war. It's a complicated environment. Yeah. So the fact that people are people, Republicans kind of four of them crossed over and voted with the Democrats. What does like, does this say anything about the GOP? Does this say anything about like in general? Is this a one-off? Are they getting uneasy about the current state of the country? And we're starting we might see more kind of fall over to the other side. Do you think?

You're seeing more of it. Number one, there's just sort of the natural laws of political gravity is Donald Trump is coming to the last midterm of his last term. And that's what they call the lame duck period. That's where a president starts to lose his juice. Now, if there's one president who's going to keep as much juice as possible and more juice than others, it's going to be Donald Trump with the GOP. Likelihood is, however, that Democrats are at least the likelihood, not the guarantee,

they're going to take the house. And if that happens, it starts to really change the balance of power. The thing is, is ultimately in our congressional system, not to get too wonky and geeky here, but the only branch that can really check the executive branch is the legislative branch. And the only ultimate way to do that with the president, like for Congress to force the president to do what they want to do, is to impeach and remove him from office. Now, that's a really extreme thing because you can impeach by simple majority in the House, but in the Senate it takes two-thirds, 67 senators, you're just not going to get it. Donald Trump knows that.

So he's an incredibly empowered executive who's going to do the things he wants to do, and he's largely done that. But what you've been seeing, in addition to this vote that you're talking about with Iran, is a number of Republicans starting to break ranks with him. For instance, the president had established in his own Justice Department or the Justice Department had established a $1.8 billion, weaponization fund that was going to be this huge pot of money that Donald Trump could essentially decide to dole out to whomever he thought had been wronged by unfair prosecutions during the Biden administration. And there were a number of Republicans who were like, we just can't do this, no stop it. And Donald Trump signaled, or the Attorney General, signaled that that weaponization fund was, quote, dead for now. Now, how long now last?

We don't know. So that's one thing. Another thing, Donald Trump wants to build this big, beautiful ballroom. Initially, he said it would only be financed with private dollars. But then his allies and he started to say, well, they want to get tax money plowed in there to build this ballroom at the White House grounds. And that became a real flashpoint because a lot of people said this is not worth the expenditure. You didn't consult Congress. That's now been taken out of a funding bill. So you're seeing those are kind of three cases, the Iran vote, the ballroom vote, the weaponization fund vote, or the slush fund vote, as the critics call it, these cases of Republican starting to break ranks with Trump.

But I don't want to mislead people. Donald Trump is the most powerful executive we've seen in the White House in a long time. He's got an iron grip still on his party. Sure, maybe one finger on that iron grip was, you know, I kind of pride back. Maybe two, but he's still got a hold on that party. Is it possible that these Republicans out of breaking ranks are doing so because some of them might be up for re-election this fall and they don't want to give any potential opponents material to cut ads on them? Well, it's part of it. I mean, this is not a popular war. The president didn't, generally when a president goes to war, the administration starts to lay the predicate for it. It starts to tell the people, hey, we might be going to war and we might be going to war for A, B, and C reasons. Trump didn't do that. And so this is sort of a little bit of a shot to the system for a lot of people. And not only was it unpopular to go to war, but then gas prices started to rise. And food prices.

are starting to climb up. It's causing inflation, in addition to some of his trade and tariff policy, which is sort of a separate thing. And at a certain point, this is just becoming too much for a lot of people. I'm not predicting that there's going to be this wholesale revolt against Donald Trump, but way back when, when Bill Clinton first ran for president in 1992, his advisors famously said, it's the economy, stupid, and it's still the economy, stupid. And in this case, it's gas prices. everybody drives by or most people drive by if they have cars even if you have an electric car you don't fill up you still see the gas sign for the cost of gasoline almost anywhere in the united states i guess unless you live in like a densely urban area where you take a subway right but if you're driving a car you know the

price of gas and like you probably are more likely know the price of gas the price of a gallon of milk for instance right and that matters to people you already touched on it when you said um before congress marco rubio was talking about how, well, he said what Trump said, the war is over, or they grilled him on that, and then he tried to kind of walk it back a bit. But he did say that Congress passing a resolution would make Iranians less likely to come to the negotiating table. And why do you believe, well, why does he believe that's the case? And is there any legitimacy to that statement? Well, I can't see what I can't explain the legitimacy of it, right? I can just explain what they're thinking. The idea that the Trump administration, perhaps any administration would have in this case is this, is that in their view,

the United States needs to be fully behind President Trump so that he can force the Iranians to the negotiating table and not have the Iranians think that there is division in the United States, which is going to eventually cause Donald Trump to have to back off or to buckle. That's the sort of the bottom line. You know, the famous scene in the Godfather, if you like movies, right? Never go against the family in public, that kind of thing. And that's what Rubio is trying to say there. The problem that the United States has in dealing with Iran, in part is the United States is sort of a victim of its own success.

That is, on February 28th, when the United States launched this war against Iran, it shows that day because the intelligence services had shown that the senior leadership, including the Ayatollah, who was ruling Iran at the time, were going to be in one place on that morning, on that Saturday morning. And so the U.S. and Israel went on a bombing rate and blew them up. And they blew up a lot of the Iranian leadership. And then Israel especially continued with targeted assassinations. So the Iranian suffered what's called a decapitation strike. That's number one. So who do you negotiate with when you've removed some of the leadership? It's complicated. Then in addition to that, Iran knew that one day was going to be attacked. And it came up with a more what they call a diffuse power structure. It's called the Mosaic Doctor. And it's the idea that different factions and different groups in the Iranian political system generally would be able to operate somewhat semi-independently. Well, that also makes it just very difficult to communicate and negotiate it with Iran. One of the interesting things in Marco Rubio's testimony is he talked about how there's basically a nine-man council that debates these things, and then they take it to the new Ayatoll, the son of the murdered Ayatoll or the assassinate Ayatala or whatever we want to call them. They have to take what they've decided and debated to him. He's not using a cell phone because if you use a cell phone, you'd be tracked and killed. So he's essentially hiding.

So they're taking messages to the Ayatollah, United States believes, by courier, like old-fashioned, like on a piece of paper so that he can't be tracked. That just slows down negotiations. It just makes it more difficult to understand who they're working with. Then in addition to that, because there's this diffuse power structure, there are some Iranian leaders who just don't want. want to have a deal with the United States. Some probably do. And those who don't have allies like Hezbollah, the terrorist group in southern Lebanon, whom they can, United States believes, get to attack Israel and prompt Israel to respond to them and create a pretext for Iran not wanting to settle the war. It's a complicated chess game, except unlike chess, you got two, three, four sides with missiles, guns,

bombs and attack drones and a long history of shooting at each other and killing each other. Yeah, I'm not sure how much Hezwell has to do to get Israel to act completely unconstrained in Lebanon. I think that's a, you know, it depends on your perspective there. But what I will ask you is what has to happen for the Trump administration to exit this war, feeling like they've gotten a political victory? To me, it seems like there's no good way. out of this for them, any deal will be judged in the context and the purview of the JCPOA, which doesn't seem like that will be favorable to Trump if you make the same type of concessions

that were in that deal. And then if you just declare victory and go home, the Iranians seems like that they will be strengthened in terms of their control over the strait. So the question is, everyone wants Trump and the Trump administration to get. get out of the war, how do you do it in a way where you maintain your political dominance? And it doesn't seem like you incurred to anyone. That's a great question. And I don't know the answer to that. But what I could what I could see is a likely scenario to ending this would be Trump agreeing to allow Iran to access its various frozen funds and billions of dollars, dropping sanctions,

which Iran wants so they can sell their oil on the open market and make more money. And coming up with other creative financing schemes so that the Trump administration would not call it reparations or compensation, you know, compensation, but the Iranians would call it. And take a little bit of messaging financing or smoothing out, I should say. And that would be the likeliest scenario to see an end to the conflict. that Trump would in this scenario I'm talking about here, or the administration would, because let's face it, Donald Trump doesn't really stay on message unlike the rest of his administration, would say that we went in there, we destroyed Iran's nuclear capability, we got all of its nuclear material out of there, we've largely shattered their ability to wage war in their neighbors, their missile stocks are depleted, their Navy is essentially gone, they've got a few like go-fast boats and, you know, Boston whalers. It is not the regional threat it is anymore and there's peace and everyone's going to be happy. That would be the scenario they would say. I'm not saying that people are going to buy it.

I'm not saying it will be messaged that clearly, but that would be the answer to that question. Excuse me. For listeners and our viewers who are listening to you talk about the war powers resolution, what should they take away from this? Is it just a headline? Is it symbolic, as Van was alluding to? or is it really a functional piece of legislation that is useful in 2026? Or is this something?

It just feels like even as we discuss this right now, that yes, it means something in the sense that four Republicans sided with the Democrats. But in the reality of things, there's really not much that can be done. And, you know, if it goes with the Senate, it starts to go through the House and it can be vetoed and all of that. And so, you know, if I'm a listener and I don't know much, like, what do I do with this headline. What does this mean? It just means that there's just a little bit more Republican opposition to President Trump than there was before. But it's not going to really bind him. At least it doesn't

look like it's going to be right now. I mean, there's an outside possibility, and I would assign a low probability to it that Trump would say if it passed the House and it passed the Senate, okay, fine, you guys wanted me to withdraw. Here's an excuse for me to withdraw. So in answer to your prior question, it does give him an out. For instance, when I talked about that weaponization fund earlier, that $1.8 billion, they use as an excuse of backing off of it the fact that a court had issued an adverse ruling. Now, Donald Trump, if he wants to push something, is going to push it. He's going to appeal. But in this case, he's like, hey, we're going to respect the court. Technically, you could do that here with Congress. But Trump doesn't want to do that. Heading into this weekend, the last weekend, there was more reason for optimism and more optimism of the Trump administration than there had been in recent weeks, that a deal was actually on the table and was doable. And Trump, from our reporting, had sent back some edits to an offer from the Iranians to have a peace deal. It concerned how they would dispose of and deal with nuclear material. And within that document, there was a financial component. And the problem that happened was we were told on Saturday that the president had

made these edits. He sends it back to Iran. He's hoping for a response. It's obviously difficult to get a hold of people for the reasons I said before, the Ayatollahs, you know, kind of hidden. So it would take a few days. And then on Sunday, Netanyahu unleashes this broad assault on Lebanon. And that just caused a real stir for Trump. Because Trump thought, you know, that he was close to a deal. The Iranians used this as an excuse. They're like, look, Israel's uncontrolled. We're not going to do this anymore. The president, Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu got on the phone on Monday. And Trump lit into it, according to our sources. And Trump subsequently confirmed that he said it.

He said, what the fuck are you doing? You're fucking crazy. The President of the United States said this. I'm on a call. Like, it's remarkable. He said, everybody hates Israel because of what you're doing. Like, you need to know when to quit. And, oh, and I'm keeping your ass out of prison, he told Netanyahu.

Netanyahu, incidentally, in 2019 had been indicted in Israel for alleged corruption charges. He's denied it. there are people both in the administration and certainly more broadly who are critics of Netanyahu who think that he's partly incentivized to continue to wage war because as a wartime prime minister, it makes it more difficult to remove him from office and for him to stand trial. One of the things that Donald Trump has been trying to do is tell Israel, hey, look, drop the charges against the guy. Now, you know, they haven't listened to President Trump and Israel about it, but that's sort of underpinning some of Trump's concerns here and his, his criticisms on that phone call because there is, while a good working relationship militarily between the United States and Israel, I say there's sort of brother countries in this conflict. You know, brothers sometimes fight. And it was a hell of a fight from what we understand.

Yeah. I had my eyebrow raising thoughts about that. It seemed pretty convenient for that to be reported and then for Trump to come out and be like, yeah, I was tough on BB and it made him look like, I told him go fuck yourself and you're ruining everything. Yeah, fuck you. And everybody's like, oh, my God, maybe that's some kind of break out. It seems like they're still pretty much. No, I think skepticism is understandably warranted, knowing the reason I was actually trying to find out if that call had happened before I was told.

And the reason was is I suspected it had occurred because in the process of reporting out my colleague, Barack Ravid, the contour. of the latest sort of peace deal that Trump had sent back these edits. On that Saturday, when I reported out that story, I was told by senior administration officials that Netanyahu wanted Lebanon included as a component of the peace deal, and Trump had told him no. Then the next day the bombing campaign happened, and I was like, oh, I wonder if the Trump administration is going to perceive Netanyahu as basically,

oh, I'm not getting my way. I'm going to bomb my way to your attention, and if that would piss off Trump. And so I asked about it and they're like, yeah, well, it's interesting. You asked, you know, just 30 minutes ago, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's how the story came about. You know, did they make it up on the spot? I mean, I guess it's, you know, it's possible. But the high probability is that that call happened.

Before we get you out of here, you've been so generous with your time. Give us an update about the last thing that we discussed when you were on here before, which was, well, we discussed Venezuela, but Venezuela was a conduit. and to us discussing Cuba, it seems as if some of the reporting I'm reading, it seems that the United States is staged for, or primed for an invasion of Cuba, a regime change operation in Cuba.

We are certainly involved in emissorating the Cuban people right now down there to try to break the will of the government and I guess the people there more broadly. What is happening down there? So a bunch of things have happened. The U.S. military arm called Southern Command that oversees operations in the Caribbean is based in Miami. And let's see what month is it's June. So in late April, our reporting had shown at Axios,

the Southern Southcom, Southern Command, Southcom had an inner agency, what they call a tabletop exercise, where they had everyone come in and they war-gamed out a variety of possibilities of what to do militarily with Cuba. I was told, and I probably should have reported this, so for what it's worth, it's sort of news here, that the military plans for handling Cuba, responding to a crisis there, or even invading, had really not been updated in many years. So this is sort of a kind of a fresh update. And so that's one thing. Second thing people have to understand is, is, just like you say, real quick, Real quick. They, they've updated plans that were already existing,

which signals, which signals increase preparation? Or what does that signal? Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean,

the Pentagon has plans for invading everywhere. Of course, I know that, but fresh plans would say that they looked at their old, okay, right. Oh, yeah, they looked at their old plans. And here's why.

So let's go back for a second, in the 1959 is the Cuban Revolution, right? About a year later, the United States, under Eisenhower, imposes the first Cuban embargo on Cuba. And it basically penalizes Cuba with respect to trade. And the embargo has been worked on in a number of years and expanded and contracted. In 1996, there was the shootdown of this aid plane called the Brothers to the Rescue, apparently, or according to the United States, in international waters. And that caused a stir back to Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton's running for re-election and the Cuban-American Republican members of Congress made sure that a law was passed that codified the embargo into federal law. So federal policy, federal law since 1996, the United States

for Cuba has been regime change. It says the Cuban embargo cannot be dropped unless Cuba frees political prisoners have free elections and guarantees various civil rights. Those are the three major prongs. And so only now, only in 2020. on May 1st, which they purposely chose May 1st, it's Workers' Day. It's a communist sort of holiday or celebration day. So the Trump administration on that day purposely imposed a new different type of sanctions, the type of sanctions that are used to with respect to Iran and Russia, called secondary sanctions that don't just target Cuban government. It targets businesses that are doing business with elements of the Cuban government. And coupled with the trade embargo,

these sanctions have really started to crush Cuba's economy. In addition to that, because the United States took over Venezuela, Venezuela is no longer giving free oil to Cuba. Cuba run by a bunch of Marxists who don't know how to run an economy, also have a certain measure of blame for what's going on there. They didn't pay for oil for years, so no one's selling them oil because no one will get money back anyway. So now the United States basically controls the trade that goes to Cuba, the oil that goes to Cuba or doesn't go to Cuba. And the Cuban regime, the totalitarian government there, looks weaker than ever. People are without power in some places for as many as 22 hours a day. It's summer now, at least in South Florida. Right now I'm in D.C. I know it summer technically isn't later,

but it's the beginning of hurricane season. Things are getting hot. And when things get hot, people get hot. And if you don't have electricity, you don't have enough refrigeration. It's harder to keep food. So the United States has war-gamed out. One of the big things from the tabletop exercise was thinking if this is going to be like 2022, when there was an uprising on July 11th in the streets of Cuba against the regime for people demanding more freedoms and a better economy, the regime then violently put down those protests. They killed people, they incarcerated them for daring to speak up and to protest. In this case, if that happens again, according to this table,

top exercise, the United States government and President Trump is possibly, I don't want to say he will, he has a number of military options that have been war-gamed out as possible responses. So that was a really long answer to this, is that the United States is looking at the possibility of an uprising happening as a result of the emiseration. It was a good word he used, right, of the Cuban people in late summer and a violent regime response. and then the possibility of the United States coming in and militarily taking over. Now, how long that lasts, what that looks like? I don't know.

I wasn't given the plans. This is only the shreds of reporting I can get that don't disclose too much confidential information that could get or classified information that could get the people I talked to in trouble. So it seems like we're starving them so that they rebel so that we can go so that more people are killed so that we can then go in. and do what we want to do. That is certainly one interpretation, yes. Wow, this world is a crazy fucking place. Mark!

Sorry, I thought I'd read a laugh. Well, it's true. You laugh because it's true. And you laugh because that's how we get through it. God bless the people. Yeah, I mean, the United States has been at war with Cuba, you know, Cold War with Cuba since 1959. And the U.S. is viewed the Cuban regime as the exporter of anti-American Marxist revolutions that have changed the governance of the lives of people in Venezuela, in Colombia, in Nicaragua, and in other places.

And the Trump administration, and Marco Rubio, see this as the the time to effectuate regime change. But exactly what that looks like, who knows, there could be a negotiated settlement as well. That is the folks running Cuba could finally say, all right, fine, like uncle, we're going to come to the negotiating table and we're going to free Cuba, we're going to free political prisoners and go through all those things. We'll have to see. Mark Pudo, senior politics reporter at Axios, am I even going to ask you about when we're going to know something about the L.A. mayoral race? I saw you on CNN talking about that because I think Karen Bass is going to win. It's just the question is just win by how small a margin, right? And who's your number two, which a lot of people are asking around here because a lot of people here are. I think it's going to be Pratt, I think. But, you know, I'm outside of my depth and I probably shouldn't say those sorts of things. But if I had to bet a nickel, I would bet that Pratt would be number two.

And then I would bet that in the final election, I would imagine Karen Bass would win because, you know, he, there's only so much of a protest and a Republican vote in L.A., still a Democratic city. But we'll see. Thank you for joining us today on Higher Learning, man. Appreciate you, brother. Thank you. Appreciate you guys. All right, Donnie, I haven't actually seen this topic. I haven't looked at it.

And that's the problem. Donnie, that's, no, look, literally that's why I want to talk about it. No, you're not alone. Nobody's talking about this. Tennis Pro Sloan Stevens is currently covering the French Open for TNT Sports. And recently during a broadcast, her co-host, Adam Lefko, gave her this introduction. TNT, baby, we're ready to go. Good morning to all of you on the east and west coast.

If you're up on the West Coast, heck of a night. Keep it rolling. John is there, Sam Quarry, Caroline Wozniakie, and yeh-ho. Slow Stephen, y'all. Great to see you get off the ranch. I know the crops need a tendon. You are ready to go. Adam Lofko here.

She tried to put me on Instagram, and I didn't like it. So why don't we see if you missed it last night? Nobody's talking about this. Right. What were your thoughts? So, this is why I thought. So obviously we're trying to do race. This is race.

You feel like this is race. Yellow race. The crops need tending to? So, okay, so this is the way I look at that. If that's me, I'll probably make that uncomfortable for him. 100%. If that's me. I would have, go ahead.

What would you say? He said, the crops need tending? I was like, well, which the cotton? The cotton crops? Is that what you're talking about? And that's a punishment, but it's a punishment for him doing something that I think is inadvertent. because I have to punish your inadvertent shit as well.

But I do believe that what he did was inadvertent, but I still have to punish you for it just so you just a little tap. He should have known better to not do that. Okay. So like you can miss me with the inadvertent. You should have known better. Because what I would have said is, okay, because at the end of the broadcast, I think he says something like,

all right, I got her. Like he doesn't even, somebody must have said something to him. and instead of saying apologizing because heaven forbid he'd do that he says something like all right you can get me back something like that to her and I would have been like well you already whipped me once

why don't you just go ahead and do it again that's what the fuck I would have said because that's what you say well it needs to be it needs to be the same thing because the yaha okay whatever back to the ranch fine she's not even wearing a cowboy hat like the joke was stupid too

like it didn't even match that's why I'm like you should have known better. Yee-ha, all right. Go back to the ranch. Okay. He didn't say field. But then he said, because the crops need tendin to.

They go, what? The crops need tend to? Well, how am I going to tend to? Who's tending to crops? But ranchers? That is an outdated term. So, okay, so let me ask you a question. Do you think it was this?

Because I feel you. I'm not saying he's racist. I'm saying he's racist. should have known better. Two, like, one, it just makes me feel like you're not in black spaces enough. You're not around black people enough. You thought that joke would land. This is tennis.

This is a predominantly white sport. Everybody sitting at that table is very white. And then you look at Sloan and you're trying to make a joke. I don't think he was being racist. I don't think he was trying to. My point is he should have known better. And the fact that Sloan had to be subjected to that sitting there, She put that outfit on, she put that hat on, she probably thought she looked so cute.

She's a beautiful woman. And then to open up the show to set the whole mood for the entire tournament, at least for that day, to tell her that she should be in the field, because that's the only place the crops are, they're not on a ranch, they're in the field to tell her that's like, I can't even imagine how she felt that entire time just sitting there. And the crazy thing about it is she had to sit there and just, she probably felt like, well, I can't say anything. I don't want people to say I'm sensitive. I don't want people to, like, him to say, get sensitive and say I'm accusing him of being racist.

I don't want to lose my job. I don't want to make a big deal out of it because she has to. And it just reminded me of the times of, like, being a black person where you have to sit there at times and feel like, you have to debate within yourself. Do I just take this? or do I say something about it? And you're the only people who have to litigate that kind of thing because you don't know as the only black person here

if you're going to be able to continue in this space if you make that white person feel uncomfortable. Oh, because he'll say, it was inadvertent. It was inadvertent. Why are you taking it so seriously? You just gave everybody the opportunity to laugh at how I look and to take it back another century. I'm sorry.

It was the tenants of the crops that was too much. Come on. I'm not calling him a racist. Okay. First, okay. I've told you the Black Hawk design story before, of course, right? No. Real quick, real quick, promise.

Donnie, have I told the Black Hawk design story on here before? I had to have. No, this doesn't sound familiar. It doesn't sound familiar. So back in the day, going to be quick. Back in the day, I worked at a place and it was a producer. And me and this guy were really close. He's cool, right?

Cool guy. And he wanted to pitch to me a movie. that he wanted to do. And the movie was about a Black Hawk helicopter that crashes in Compton. And it's on the run from terrorists. It crashes from Compton.

It crashes in Compton. And there are parts of the Black Hawk helicopter that are all around, land everywhere. And the, I guess, Marines or Special Forces, whoever, the Force Recon guys, whatever it is, that are on the Black Hawk helicopter, have to, like, hide from these people that are coming to get them

in the community. And then the community comes together using the weapons and all of the parts of the Black Hawk to help the Marines that are on the ground there fight off these terrorists or whatever.

And the name of the movie at the end was Black Hawk Dizant. You definitely haven't told that story. Diz out? Black Hawk, the name of the movie was Black Hawk Dissout. Now I've told this story certainly on TMZ and probably on

other podcasts, but that was the name of the movie. And I remember I'm sitting there and I'm listening to this. And I thought, and there were two things that were happening here. Number one, it was like, I like Van. Van is going to be the one that's going to get this idea. Van is the guy that's cool, but Van don't take no shit, whatever. I'm going to tell Van about Black Hawk Dizound because the rest of this town can't fucking get over the fact that I called it Dizound.

It's actually a story about the empowerment of the neighborhood and working with fucking Marines and all of that stuff. The military comes together with the neighborhood. They build fucking turrets And they fight these guys off Black Hawk Dizond. This is awesome. And I remember he pitched it to me And I was like, okay, so no

Under any circumstances, no, if you do go out with that movie, we will laugh at you And I will be the person laughing the loudest. Now, can we get lunch? That was the thing. Wow, they'd make a whole big deal about it. I'm just like, no, that's whack.

Now, I will say that they will probably make that movie It would probably make that movie, Black Hawk did sound. But I guess my thing is this. You are right. This guy, I've seen this guy before. He does like a podcast with Shaq. He hosts on here. Yeah, he's a sports host.

He's a popular sports guy. Sports guy. I personally, I personally, in my situation, like I say, the way I punish you in that situation for what you do is to come back at you with a joke, call out what really is wrong here is that that was corny. right he was trying to be cool and he came across as corny but I don't think that I would be angered

by it I'm not okay go ahead I want you finish No no no no no that's all I mean I'm not to belabor it I don't think that I would be angered by it Are you I'm not angry I'm sad that she had to sit up there And just take that

Like if you look at the guy on the other end He looks super uncomfortable Right And immediately the guy said yaha Yeah even the yaha Even the yaha guy me. The yaha is like,

man, what are we doing, dog? Like, what's going on? So that's one. I said. There are three. Then the ranch.

Then the tents of the crops. And it made me sad because I just, I just know, I can't think of a particular moment that I've been the only black person in a room where somebody made a joke

inadvertently or maybe in your, like your situation, maybe Rachel will won't take it so seriously. And you have to, within yourself, say, do I go this way? do I go this way with it? And if I go this way, like, you have to litigate it in your own mind for your own well-being, for your own survival. Do you keep your job? Do you make this person

uncomfortable? Do you get labeled this that other races don't have to do? And that made me sad watching it. And I have, I looked, she hasn't done a response. He hasn't said anything. Network hasn't said anything. And they probably won't because they want this to move on. And maybe she does too. Just like nobody to talk about it. Let's just move on to the next thing. But as a black woman when I saw it, I was like, I just felt

so bad for her. Like I don't think that he intentionally did that. I'm going to give him that. But he should have known better. Can I ask you this? Really? He should have. This is a deeper. But I definitely would have said the whip thing. Yeah. Especially where I am right now. Okay, nigger, whip me again.

Can I ask you a question. Ask people living together in the same realm on the same panels in the same grocery stores like on the same podcast do we actually need to be better

at making space for good faith cultural glitches it's not always going to go yes and so like when so what I'm saying is is not when there is intent, insidiousness, and all of that stuff behind words, deeds, and actions, we have to fucking come down with a hammer on those as crazy as we can.

But in situations where we're around each other, I do kind of feel like there is not a responsibility. Sloan Stevens has no responsibility in that situation, but just for not even a greater good, but I don't even know what the right word is. don't we have to be resilient to a degree to where we respond in kind or consider that we're living in diverse times where people are not always going to have a complete handle on our experiences and sometimes run a file of them? I completely agree with you. I think that's why we have both said we're not quick to label people racist. I don't like when people do that immediately.

I think it takes away. If I say it, I've truly thought about it. it's the same reason we had Keith Edwards on here, right? It was a conversation of this is what's happening in this space. Let's sit down and let's have a conversation and talk about it. I'm not saying to excuse him like Adam or anything like that. That was a little deeper, but I agree with you. I guess my point with Adam is, again, I'm not calling him racist.

The reason I say he should have known better is to the point you made as well. One, I think it's just, well, let me just say this too. It's also the glaring thing of when you're black and you walk into a room full of white people, you immediately know you're the only black person in the room. They don't necessarily look at you in that they don't see it in that way because they aren't that.

They're around. There's majority of them. So I would imagine that Sloan is already aware of her presence on that panel in that space, period. Then you go in there and do this. Now, to your point with Adam, the reason I even more so say he should have known better is because he has had a podcast with black people.

He covers more than just a predominantly white sport. He covers sports with majority black people as well. I say you should have known better because to me, tending the crops is an obvious thing. As an obvious thing. I feel what you're saying. I'm not mad at him, but I do think that it's something that you should discuss

because I truly felt sorry for her when I watched it. Now Sloan might have been like, I know Adam is nothing serious, but, you know, do I wish she would have said, you already whipped me once you should do it again? He would have been so uncomfortable. Go look at her face. She looks uncomfortable. She looks uncomfortable. She looks uncomfortable. She looks uncomfortable.

But this is why. And she would have got to trouble if she said that. This is why the actual move is to go first for me. What do you mean? you're in the space with a whole bunch of white people the actual move is to make them uncomfortable first

and raise their awareness of the situation that's the move the move is you walk in here and you go you're on the thing you're slow Stevens you go one two three four I guess they really did get rid of DEI

and everybody goes oh shit this what type of time we're on like everybody everybody everybody goes the fuck. They're like, she wanted him? Like,

she actually, cool. Now, the ranch thing is impossible because when you do that, you've put out a protection. It's not going to happen. Now,

and if it, and if it does happen, some people, it makes them comfortable enough to be like, oh, that's what we're doing. If it does happen, now you know straight up,

you've laid down the gauntlet and you can go back and forth. You make a joke about them. You do something. Right away, you make, them uncomfortable. And so now that they're uncomfortable,

now everybody's like, I don't want to be the one. He got too comfortable. That's really what happened. He got too comfortable. Now, last question about this. Is there anything he could have said regarding the ranch that you wouldn't have taken in that way?

What if you just said like? She's riding horses or because like, she didn't even have a cowboy hat on. What if she was tending to horses though? The word tendons got to go. I don't want that verb anywhere near me. I ain't tending to shit. Except getting an Adam Massa Lefko's ass.

That's what I. I'm tending to right now. Oh, shit. There's no way for him to close it out and say like, oh, you can get back in me. That's okay, Massa. You made your point. That's what I'm talking about. You got to.

But see, that's the way. That's what I'm talking about. But the reason I'm saying this now is because we do that. Not everybody is as comfortable being that confrontational or making people uncomfortable. So I feel like I didn't see this addressed enough. And I watched it. and I felt so bad for her, that let me talk to Massa for you.

I hope he listens to this podcast. Adam! Just do better. Just you should know better. That's it. I don't think he's racist. That's funny. That's funny.

Okay. You guys, we have a surprising, I would say surprising. A surprising, inspiring, very thoughtful interview with Jay Farrell on the other side of his break. And I mean this sincerely. surprising, thoughtful, spiritual.

Yeah, that's really nice. We're going to be with Jay Farrell on the other side of this break. We've got to hang for y'all right now. Like one of the single most impressive talents for a long time, man. I remember back in the days

when you was, this is pre-Satineineinelli when you was on YouTube with it. And I'm looking at it was the Denzel that got me. The Denzel and the Will situation. He makes it to Saturday Night Live. Now he is a multi-hyphenate. We're talking about a musician, a television host,

The Quiz with Balls is the show on Fox. It's on hiatus. Now it's coming back after the World Cup. That's a double entendantra. Who saw that coming at all? Me hosting a quiz with balls and being a game show host. That's crazy. But, hey, it fit.

That's a check. Yeah. Absolutely. Everybody's trying to get that job. I know. And a rap album, the Odyssey. dropping on June 12th.

Jay Farrow joins us today on Higher Learning. Y'all give it up for you. What's going on? What's going on? I love this. The only thing is missing some incense. I love this, man. We should do that.

You should actually. You know what? Speaking of that, I did buy some candles from a lady over on Larchmont that I wanted to burn while we was doing some interviews here. She had different candles and different moods and stuff. I just didn't bring the candles in yet, so I'm going to bring some candles here. Hey, man, don't get too.

Don't get too many candles. They used to start getting into Drake Green Run. room territory. You know what's with that? Drake got candles in the green? Got candles, got a humidifier. You know what I mean? He takes care of himself. He gave me some throat spray when I was because I'm Whoa. Wait, because I was horse. Let him let him. Okay, all right. I was horse.

This is always a thing on a podcast by the way. Yeah. I'm surprised you didn't get stuck on quiz with balls. Yeah, I was horse bro. Like he gave me the come on bro like it's nothing weird bro like the guys bro. He's a guy bro. He gave me some spray for my voice. You know. Do you do Kendrick? too. Oh yeah, a little dude, doot, do, too, too. He's like, wait, six or not. Frigget, right here, six nine, God.

For your own life. The labor going to let you disrespect, pot. Man, he's got a character voice when he raps, too. Yeah, he does. I don't know why. I didn't say, I didn't, man, I did one, and I didn't even mention Kendrick, but Kendrick is

another one of those who's that, he has that timeless, timeless vibe and music that you can play like 20 years later and you'll still be playing his music at the cookout. Yeah, for sure. For you, into music. Yeah. I listen to this on the one joint that

I got a joint on YouTube I listen to. Yeah. And I gotta be real. This music is surprisingly good. Thank you. But let me tell you why, though. If you put some music out and you came out there and you was rapping.

Right. And the shit was like competent rap. I'd be like, oh, okay, he can rap. This is kind of like ambitious sounding soul. I know that you've wrapped more traditionally in the past. Yeah. This is on some like really ambitious sounding soul music with a groove and a vibe that like is serious. And can I add to it?

It feels nostalgic and different at the same time. And I don't, I don't, I don't, do you understand what I mean when I say that? Yeah. I can, and I can break that down too. Okay, please. Because it's like old school cross with Neo, you know. And you merge those two worlds together. And that's when you create something timeless

because it's got the 70s type vibe in it too, but it's got a contemporary feel. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know, James Brown, if he was like, if he got dropped in a young money camp or a freaking Rockefeller camp for like a little bit, and he put out an album.

That's how I would equate this album to be like that. So I understand what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. So the Odyssey, where did the title come from? Where did the inspiration behind the music? Why now? Because like Van said, you rap before. Yeah.

But what was it with this album? Unsuccessfully. I can't even say it's unsuccessful. Just that, you know, people that tuned in and listened to me do the freestyles on sway in the morning or you heard me do the freestyle on a Who Kids show. You knew I could rap. But the question was, what was the product going to be?

Where were you going to go with that? And, you know, to go back to your point, how surprisingly good it is, I couldn't put out anything that was going to be less than that. After I have put out other music that's been good, but it hasn't really hit hit.

We wanted to make a whole project that really hit hit, you know what I mean? And every track on this album, every track is one you can run back and listen to. So, yeah, I totally understand what you're saying

when you mix the world, and I totally understand what you're saying, When you say, man, this is this surprisingly good. I had no choice, bro. I had no choice because you, like I put out Speedboat, which is a great record. I don't know if you heard Speedboat. I don't know if I heard it's a little explicit, but, you know, I was at a different,

a different part of my life when I made that and then finally put it out. But it's, it's like, it's, it's bars. Yeah. But it's not a full, it's not a full buffet of artistry. You know what I'm saying? It's only one little aspect of it. So, I mean, anybody that's heard you rap before knows that you can rap. Right.

You said that. And also, just, I think the assumption and expectation would be that if somebody with your creative talent got with a producer that you can make something that sounded good. Right. But to make something ambitious is different. Right. Because when you do that, then that talks about your taste level, how you're getting into the music and all of that. Right. How did this come together from a musical ambitious standpoint in terms of like,

you melding sounds and going in a different way and stuff. Like, where's that from? That is from, well, the base of the project. And I love how you all all alli-ooped each other because I halfway answered your question. I didn't finish it. I'm so sorry. And you came in.

And this is why y'all are partners. Because y'all understand each other. All right. So the Odyssey, first of all, the name came from the song I did, Life was Good When You're Rich, because I set a bar in it. I said, if you stingy with your liquor, Then you odd to me, then your money mythology, and that's the odyssey. You know what I'm saying?

And in the next, totally in the next verse, I totally flipped that. But that's where the project title came from. Now, as far as everything mixing together, I came with Miles William, who's the producer on this project, with the idea of demand. You know what I mean? I had a, I had it in my mind. You know, at first, I freestyleed it, sent it to him. He built the beat around it.

And after that, he listened to the song, the first take. And he was like, all right, you got to take some of this out. You know what I mean? Because, you know, you got to remember everybody that's listening to your music. Women are listening to this music. So even though demand is demand, you still got to kind of have some moral to it. You know what I'm saying? You can't, you're not going to be able to, you get more bees with honey.

You know what I'm saying? So let's have a good message in that. Bam. All right. Cut two. I'm good. That song. It's like it's rapping about being positive.

It's keeping your head up, you know, making sure you praise. They connected to God. Those are the morals in that one. So you got that one. You got looking. That's dropping. Looking. It's just somebody that got their heartbroken.

I mean, he's got his heart broken. He's rapping however he's rapping. But it's still related. in that way. And we also got Starv Rose and all these other engineers on the project that really understand, sound like Will Smith right now, that really understand, that really understand the integrity of everything, of the, of the music, like the ingredients of it. Sure.

So it's all construction, melody construction, melody construction. Try to take imagination and engineered into actual sonic feeling, all of that stuff. Absolutely. So we wanted to create a story that paralleled where I've been through but still would make sense in another dimension. This character is in another dimension, but he's dealt with the same type of things that I've dealt with, which is getting a lot of notoriety, getting a lot of power at an early age, and thinking that that's the Crem de la Crem, having the accessibility to everything. and then realizing that it's that's not, that's not gonna make you happy.

I have had all of that, you know what I'm saying? But that's not the thing that's gonna make you happy. What makes you happy is being able to take your talents and your gifts, generate wealth, help people, give it all back because you can't take it with you, but at the end of the day, what you will have with you is your soul. So pay attention to that, pay attention to love, and strive for that, because if you don't have God,

you don't have anything. What was the moment that you realized it's not gonna make me happy? During the pandemic, I think that was my moment that I had it and even at the end of S&L and when I got white famous. I'm like, yo, I'm still like because I'm still trying to get to some other place. You got people looking on the outside like you're here. But in your mind, you're like, no, I got to keep going. It's a never-ending story when it comes to fame because if you're ambitious and you want to keep growing and involved,

If you stand still, the world is going to pass you so you can't stand still. If you keep growing and you keep evolving and got degit, see, I got ADD too. Elevating. Elevating. If you keep elevating, then that's the beautiful thing. You can't, you can't just sit here. You can't just allow the world to just pass you by. You got to keep pushing forward.

You got to keep moving. And at the same time, when you get there where you expected to be years before, when you finally get to that point, it still won't be enough. It's not. It's never going to be enough. Yeah. So love is what you need, man. Love is eternal.

Love is going nowhere. You always need that. And you can't take any of this stuff with you. So why not give it back? Why not give it away? And I'm saying, during the pandemic, man, really during the pandemic when I had everything and I was like all the way on the other side, like, dude, it was, you know, dude, how I was. You know, dude, house was crazy.

You know, parties, all this stuff. Random women in different rooms and stuff. It was all of that. And when I had all of it, it just felt disgusting. And I just broke down one day. And, man, I had a spiritual, God really touched me. And he really brought me back from where, like the prodigal son. Literally the prodigal son.

Like, you spend your money on women. You spend your money on all these things And you feel you feel dirty, you feel disgusting But you hear that voice telling you to come back And that door is still open And I walked right through that door back in there. So that's interesting because didn't you have Before I guess your career took off

You had a moment where you had a similar experience Where someone said something to you Absolutely And I kind of like spoke to you and told you not to give up And I would love for you to tell the story And it's just interesting to know that. And then you find yourself at a place where you're achieving all this success, everything you feel like you've wanted.

You still didn't feel fulfilled. And what brought you back was the very thing that got you started. Yes. Well, what you're talking about is when I was in Burlington Coat Factory. Yeah, yeah, very tough. Very tough. Very tough to work in general. Tough place.

Tough place in general. A lot of people shoplifting. You go inside the Burlington Coat Factory. and like it was, I used to call it, and Gino will know this, I used to call it the most depressing place in the world. Oh, yeah. Because I was a bigger dude, and I would always go into the Burlington Coat Factory

thinking that I was going to leave the Burlington Coat Factory with something really fly. And every time I went in there, it was like nobody wanted to be in that bitch. No. Right? Nobody wanted to be in that bitch. Nobody helped you with the coats. Nobody looked, you have to look through.

It's like, you go into the Burlington Coat Factory and you ask, hey man, can I get like a, Hey, we don't know this in this motherfucker. It's so big. Look around this motherfucker. Like, look, just go find a code. Get the fuck out. Perkins Road, Banroo.

Ratchett Central. Yeah. And there's like nobody is, okay, so, well, yeah. So, weird. I was working there in 2000. And I believe it was, it was 2008 or nine. It was 2008 or nine. And I was down on myself, man, because I was on a role with Charlie Murphy.

but that has started to like dry up a little bit, you know. And I was thinking of my head, man. I was like, yo, what should I do? Like, am I going to keep doing an entertainment thing? Or I'm just going to go ahead, go back to school and finish my degree? And I said, man, maybe I should quit. I said this in my head. As soon as I'm saying that in my head, it's this guy that walks to me.

He sees my head is down. He said, listen, man, God told me to just, God just gave me a message to tell you. Keep going. because whatever you want is about to happen to you. Everything that you want is about to happen to you. Do not quit. Keep going. And I was like, okay.

And then me and my sister went on the road and we started doing the Chitlin Circuit. You know, in New York, you do the $75 rooms, $100 rooms. And that was the summer of 2009. And things started happening, December 2009 to January, 2010. And then that Will Smith v. this Denzel clip went viral and then E played it and everybody saw it at Fox. Fox was offering me a holding deal.

I was supposed to do a sketch show A-Fion Crockett back in the day. Before in the flow, it was supposed to be me and him. Oh, so before he actually got his show on the air, did you have a different show that you guys were gonna do? Yeah, well, it was the same. It was the same show. I just wasn't in it, you know what I mean?

And I was supposed to be. But NBC had offered a holding deal, which I took. And during that holding deal, SNL came through and then they got me and I was off to the races and then everything started happening but I had that I had that feeling I was like yo man this is it

and I was way more connected at in the beginning I would say to God because I would always go back to my Facebook post I was always posting thank you God thank you Jesus you did this such and such and then I got in the industry and I got sidetracked with everything that was happening you know so cut to

the end of SNL I'm like I'm living I'm living but I'm living You know what I'm saying? I'm not as connected. And then cut to the pandemic when everything was like going this way. And I had, I really had everything I wanted to. I had a salacious lifestyle. And I didn't want that.

And then going back, having God like open his arms and say, you can come back and just putting the code on me and saying, if you meet me halfway, I will carry you the rest of it. I literally heard that. And I was like, I will, okay. Let me start getting rid of my swings in here. Let's get rid of all this stuff. Man, yeah, it was, it was crazy, bro. It was insane.

Did that experience, obviously now you feel totally different. You feel way more fulfilled. Did that bleed into the music or even your comedy? Has that changed it in any way? It has. It has. Now, one thing, my struggle is the profanity. I don't curse offstage or off record,

but, you know, it's still in some of the artistry, as you can hear in the music. But mind you, I made the music 2024. You know, there's still a, you know, it's a transition period. You have to, you can't just jump, be advanced. You got to work towards where you want to get to. I feel like now I'm working towards where I want to get to where, you know, the stuff that I come up with on stage, you know, I'm not cursing or I'm taking words out that I don't need. And I'm always trying different words and saying, okay, if I substitute this with this,

How will it affect the comedy? It hasn't changed it. People still laugh. So I realized that you don't necessarily need all of the words to create the art, you know. But, you know, when I recorded this album, you know, I was still a little transitional. So there's some words in there, but it's still great music and it still feel good music. Do you have a personal thought or ethos that makes you think or believe that profanity is like either not wholesome or sinful or...

No, it is... I mean, you're not supposed to... You're not supposed to curse. You know? I never knew that. You're not supposed to curse? You're not supposed to. First Baptist Church or are you going to...

First Baptist Academy. First Baptist Academy, like, are you going to educate? Because we be in this bitch cursing like a motherfucker. I curse. But listen, I don't know the verse. But I was taught that, yes, for sure. For sure, for sure. Bernard research, look it up.

It's cursing the sin. Because I didn't know that. I mean, I was raised to believe it was a sin as well. I was raised to believe that if you do it, you get kicked in your stomach. But nobody told it. Like, Daddy would be like, hey, it wasn't rooted in anything. I don't know. He was more of respect.

But he never really rooted stuff in stuff like that, mom and dad. Because they, because they'd say, hey, motherfucker, don't curse at me. Don't curse at my motherfucking house, nigger. And then you'd be like, wait a minute. That don't make sense. But, but yeah, so, but I'm interested in how when you feel like you have to clean your spirit, What are the things that you feel like you had to separate yourself away from them? And it's interesting that profanity is one of those things.

Well, profanity was definitely one of them. Another one was just the, you know, pornography, things of that sort. You're in a high bar for me right now. Yeah, that's his struggle. Really? Oh, he talks about it all the time. Well, it used to be. Excuse me, it used to be.

You've talked about it before. We've talked about it before. On the podcast, yes. I was initiated into the life of porn at an early age. Me too. Absolutely. Like so and it's been something that's been a thing over the years, but I don't necessarily-

I'm trying to be nice. Why do you- Do it? These are not digs. These are not digs. Okay. I can talk to you from somebody who is, somebody who was addicted to that and somebody who was so addicted to that

that the accessibility of those folks was just eye-opened. Yeah, yeah. You can, you're fine. You can come out of that. God can tell you. take you out of, yeah, I could take you out of anything, man, you know, anybody. Everybody has their struggles. I can't, I'm not judging anybody that curses.

You can, like, you curse it now, like, I don't care. It's, you know, it's not like, ooh, I'm just like, yeah, I don't, I'm not going to do it. Yeah, I think I'm more interested in when you come to that in a sincere way. I think I'm interested in what people think or how people connect to or how people analyze, whatever you want to say, the things that they feel encumbered by. And for you personally, when you felt encumbered, spiritually encumbered, mentally encumbered, what freed you?

If it's porn, if it's, for some people it's gonna be drugs, for some people it's gonna be food, for some people is gonna be like video games, it's all different types of things. I had all those things. At one point, look, at one point I was fat, I was that was, you know, I was serving that. At one point it was the drug thing,

You know, oversmoking a lot. I used to serve that. You know, I had to cut down on that. I do it. I used to, I don't look like it, man, but yeah, I used to puff it up. You know what I'm saying? Like a chimney, homie. You know what I mean?

Not anything, not anything crazy because I never, because Charlie always told me to, you know, he said, man, weed is fine, but, you know, anything past that. You don't want to do it because it messes, it alters your personality. And I never wanted anything to alter my personality. So I never did any heavy drugs. But weed, I mean, it's not a dick. but it can become, if anything,

anything that can become habitual can be, like, in some vein, addicting. You know what I'm saying? That was what I was serving. And I was, I was shown, I was shown pornographic images at a very early age. And I was a church kid. And when I saw that,

things started shifting a little bit. So, yeah, what up, Damien? He didn't want to got me this stuff. Daniel said last day, you know he is. He used to print out, to have the hard drive full of pitches and he'd give it to me like it was a deal. Damien was his name.

Damien, Damien was the guy. He was the guy. Whoa, I didn't even, wow! I didn't even put that together. You still talk to Damien? That's what, no, I don't. But you also got some Damians, too. Yo, that's crazy.

Damian. That's crazy, bro. That's crazy. And that was my strongest week. That was my biggest weakness. That was my biggest weakness. finally, finally, when I felt empowered, when I felt the spirit come on, it was, it was, I can't do that.

I'm not comfortable with it. I might slip. Everybody slips. You know, but whatever you give more attention to in your life than God is your God. And that's real. Hey, man, whatever you are serving, think about the time. Even if throughout the day, you are always like, God help me, God help me. you are still communicating with God.

You're keeping an open communication. Vice versus the person who just goes to church once a week and just says whatever and then lives the way that they want to live for the rest of the time. You can't live the way that you want to live for the rest of the time. Whatever is a weight, a burden on you, and whatever's holding you down, you got to get rid of that because God sends you the Holy Spirit to break chains. He's never going to send you, he's never going to shackle you up.

You know what I mean? He doesn't shackle. That's why the story of Exodus, is so prominent, how all of the Jews, they were in, um, uh, they were in bondage. They were in bondage and, um, you know, the spirit came and got them out of that, you know? And it's that narrative with, um, with every story. God is always delivering people, you know what I mean? Even from the beginning, the reason we have time is because, um, a sin happened outside of time. well, sin happened in time.

We send in time. The angels send outside of time. That's why they can't be forgiven. Because when you're, you send in eternity, that's forever. You know what I mean? And they disrespect the God's presence. They did it in his face. One third got kicked out.

So we said, what I'm going to do is I am going to come down, myself, my son. I'm going to send him. He's going to be the body to redeem the world to bring you all back up. That one third that's lost, I'm going to replenish it with the people that have never seen me before and that's what's so special about it because blessed are those who who haven't seen yet they believe you know and that's what it is what about with friendships you had to let go of some of your friendships yeah like uh yeah a few of them a few of them and you know not in a disrespectful way sure but you know like some people i was hanging with you know they were they were party parties

you know what I'm saying they probably went to the ditty party you feel me like I ain't go I never went You know what I'm saying? Did you go, did you go, Van? I've been to. You went to? Oh, okay. Wow. All right.

See, I didn't have, I didn't say anything. See, she could have got me. I said, I said this before. I'll say it again. Hey, excuse me. Their degrees. They're degrees. Tell them your, this is the way I look at it.

Okay, you don't have to change the hat, okay. Their degrees. They're like, okay. They're degrees to the parties. Yeah. And so there's a first, I wouldn't know. There's a third degree party, a second degree party, a first degree party.

And there's a capital. party where it's basically a freakoff. We saw a video of that. But like, yeah, I've been to parties that he has thrown before. Oh, but so many people have been. But you haven't been to a house. Yes. In Miami? No, not in Miami. Yeah. What you want me to say? By the way, by the way, I'm not going to say everybody was at this. This was not like a private, that's not a freakoff situation. We weren't. No, we didn't go. Yeah. You weren't even out here. Thank you very much. Okay. And I'm not going to say, everybody. I'm not going to. This was at this. We weren't. We were I'll talk about you, Mr. Swingset.

All right. But no, I understand what you're saying. What I think, in all seriousness, there is, and we all know it in the town. There is, and has long been, long been, an element of existence in this particular town that is just... Demonic?

Yeah, it's full of botry, it's full of exploitation, it's full of wielding power over people, There is a corner of this particular city where secrets are made. And those secrets oftentimes are used to blackmail people. Blackmail people, degraded people. But more than even that, they're used to extract people's humanity from them. Yeah. They're used to put people under your thumb, under your foot, under your boot.

And I'm not talking about the people that are being blackmail. I'm talking about the people that are being exploited in order to produce the blackmail. Got you. That's long been a thing in this town. And also, it's just a place, to be honest with you, where things are moving so fast, especially like you're from New York, so it's probably not fast to you.

But for me, when I got out here from Baton Rouge, it was such a blur that time was going. It was like, let's go here, let's go there, let's go there, let's go there, let's go here. And then by the time you get used to it, you stop remembering to say no to stuff. Like you, like the town is like, there's an aphrodisiac of yes. to where you stop,

you, you, you have to, somebody has to shock you to be like, no, I'm not with that. That's why I live in the valley. You know what I'm saying? I got my way. You're like, no, you're like, no, that's not, that's not for me. That's not for me. I understand that.

And I always say this, man, you know, and you seem like you have a good, you know, you had a good beginning, whatever, with your fam and all of that. I could definitely tell by the conversation you had. Well, Kanye, the first time I saw you. And I was like, yo, this dude is, like you have a good moral code inside of you.

I'm actually from Chesapeake, Virginia. Okay, where not? But my mom is from New York. So I have gone up and down the East Coast for my whole life pretty much. I got family all over. Philly, New York, Maryland, Florida, North Carolina, everywhere. But if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for everything. You know what I'm saying?

So the people who do come out here who don't have any type of home base, no type of faith foundation, and yo, those are the ones that they're gonna get eaten up because they don't know how to say no because nobody has told them about these things. Like, my mother, my mother told me when I was eight years old, no sex. I'm like, okay, that's weird. I'm eight, I'm not even thinking about that.

But she said, every time you think about sex, think about my face. I said, well, that's kind of freaky right there. You know what I mean? I don't want to think about your face. You know, maybe, you know, Josh's mom. She's bad. Okay. But think about your face, but it was always driven into me early on, you know, what not to do, what to do.

And I even have, I have people, you know, you know, tone stiff? You don't know. I just want to fly sort of like an eagle baby. That song? You know, you never heard that? Okay, well, anyway, he used to write, he wrote Chris Brown's liquor. He's a good writer, singer, all of that. He's from my church, and he's in the industry as well.

And we have these conversations. Evie McKinney, who was on, you know, Evie? Yes, she also goes to my church. So we're all, we have the foundation, and we check in with each other and just make sure, hey, you good, you good. I haven't talked to Evie in a while, but I can see, she's just, she's just so spiritual.

And that comes, that just comes from people pouring into you at our early age so you don't fall for that stuff, man. Because you don't want to say yes to the wrong thing. I mean, I went to an all-white party before, and I got Molly. You know what I'm saying? Right. I mean, I didn't, you know, it was all in one glass and I drank stuff real five. Bro, I used to, I used to drink, bro.

I used to get it in, you feel me? You know what I'm saying? I could throw back 13 and, you know what I mean? 13, 14 a day. I wasn't caring, you know what I'm saying? So that's why I had liver problems, you feel me? Not anymore because the liver regenerates. However, back there, it was messed up.

But, you know, I drank the whole thing. Boom. Now I'm messed up the whole night. I didn't know that they had. put all the Molly in there. Nobody told me about Molly. They told me about Coke. They told me about weed.

They told me, and then nobody had to say heroin, because I'm not going to do no heroin. You know what I'm saying? I saw Ray. I'm not going to do it. You know what I'm saying? Ain't nobody trying to be in the bathroom. You know what I'm saying?

Ain't nobody trying to be in the rehab. I don't want to take that. Oh, no. Ah, ha, ha, ha, ha. You don't want to do that. You know what I'm saying? So it was poor. I think it's important for people who are coming to Hollywood

you can be successful in Hollywood and not lose your soul. You could be that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But I think that's such an important message. I was going to ask you. I'm so glad you said that because I do think people who aren't, who haven't been here, who have dreamed to come here, they have an idea of what still to this day,

of what they think Hollywood is like, or what they think they have to do to fit in and be successful. And I was going to say to you, and I guess like you could address this to people maybe who still have the dream to come out here. Or am I going through it right now? is it hard for you to hold your faith publicly in an industry that doesn't always make room for it? And if not, how is it that you do it? Is it the community you shout it out to people that that you build around you to help you do that? Because obviously you can become successful. Right.

And stay successful. Yeah. It's just following. It's following what the Bible said. It's say, yo, he said, if you're ashamed to profess my name in front of people, I'll be ashamed to profess your name in front of my father. so you can't be, you can't be scared to say it. Whatever happens, you know what I mean? Okay, if I lose some parts, I'll just lose some part.

I wasn't supposed to have those parts. You wanted me to, you wanted me to walk out naked anyway and do some weird fleece Johnson stuff. You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? I don't want to, that's not where I'm trying to go. So I'm aligned. I'm going to stay aligned.

I'm going to stay aligned in scripture, stay aligned in that foundation and have that foundation because, yes, that is going to be the feed. That's going to be the fertilizer. That's going to be what I need to stay cemented. And you can, man. You got to stay cemented. But it was just not being ashamed.

I'm not ashamed to say Jesus' name. I'm not ashamed. But also with that, it's responsibility with that. Because if people are watching what you're putting out and your fruit ain't matching, then they're going to be like you're a hypocrite. And most of the time, that's what deters most people away from the faith in general. They're like, yo, well, well, he said this, but I saw him in the club. doing such and such and such. Okay, maybe the man was slipping. You don't know. Everybody has

their struggles and struggles. Listen, listen, liars, adulterers, murderers, stealers, people who, the tongue, people who are loose with the tongue, it's the same thing. No sin is greater than another sin. So I'm not going to hang out at a murderer party. I'm not going to hang out at a party and people steal. If people, if I notice some steelers in there, I'm not going to hate them. I'm be aware, but I'm going to try to impose a message so maybe they don't do that. But you can be, listen, your base, your base is the most important thing that you need. Your base, your faith base is the most important thing you need. If you have that, I don't think that you're going to have to worry about much in this industry, you know. I'll also say two things for me. One was I made a lot

of friends with people who are actually from Los Angeles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that helped me because people who are actually from here aren't really enamored with a lot of the things that go on in Hollywood. They might come out to Hollywood and party and stuff like that, but then when you leave with them, they go back to their cousin's house and stuff like that and sometimes they'll

tell you, hey, man, don't wear that around here. Then you got to get used to that whole thing. But they, people are from here. And number two, this is going to sound really weird. TMZ helped. Really? Yeah. TMZ helped because... They make me lose my Christian sometimes. But you would see behind the same.

TMZ helped because two things. One, it was insanely structured. Right. So you're in the office at six. You're out of the office at like 5.30. So you didn't have a lot of time to be out. But also, man, if you need to be in a place that provides you a cautionary tale to what excess, what mistakes. What did Big Sean say?

It only takes one time to fuck up your whole Wikipedia. That is real. Like I go on my Wikipedia and I'm like, yeah, cool. Nothing fucked up on there yet. I'm not a great guy by any means, but like when I would see and we would just, they would be in the office and they would be like, they'd be writing up the stories gleefully,

but they would be like, why don't this person have a driver? Like how could this happen? Like what's going on? And they are, you also see that there is currency in your mistakes. That there are people that are like, actually waiting for you to make a mistake because it's news for them because it's it's a commodity to them. Yeah.

And so part of it is just like, I don't want to be the person that gives you your next million clicks based upon what I'm doing. I feel that. But the basic thing is I just really, and I don't do a good job of this all the time, I just really don't want to hurt anyone. Like I don't want to have like my rise or whatever be because somebody else is heard or like I've taken something from them. You hurt people.

You do. Like, but I don't want to hurt anyone. I don't want to, and that's the thing that gets to me about L.A. and this entire thing sometimes is just the need to hurt and dominate and impose your will on people and put them in bad situations and all of that stuff. Sometimes I don't know where that comes from. Yeah. I think that's just, that's just Los Angeles.

You just got to get out to the valley. You know what I'm saying? It's going down out there too, right? It's going down out there too. Which part of the valley? Which part of the valley? Tell us the people exactly what it is. You know, like near, you know, over there near, near Encino and all of that.

Oh, see, that's nice, though. That's the Jackson land. I know people that live out there. That's what Michael Jackson is. You know, that's the Encino. I want to talk to you about your, because I honestly, brother, a lot of this has been inspirational, but shit, nigga, we got to get some voices. I want to know about your method because this part of it, I've always been obsessed with. There's a guy named Dan Soder.

I love Dan. And Dan does, I accidentally came up on him doing macho man Randy Savage. Listening to an impressionist talk about how they nail an impression is some of the most fascinating shit in the world. He'll go, I'll take a little bit of this, I'll mix it with this, I put a little bit of this in there, and all of a sudden, he's doing Randy Savage, but he's touching his glasses, he's doing everything to where it feels like macho is still alive. How in the world do you nail an impression

and get it to the point to where like it entertains millions and millions of people? Well, first it starts with, for me, it starts with the voice. I'm not the voice, of course the voice. It starts with the laugh first. If you got to like, if you get somebody's laugh, like even some of the hardest impressions that I've done, if I didn't have the voice first,

I had the laugh of the person first. And that gives you the, spirit then for me I it's the then it's the voice and the voice comes for me by literally it's it's some AI type thing that I do where I am picture I picture a person's face on my face saying the same thing that I'm saying at the same time and then I'm morph into it that's it those things and I might hear sometimes it is adding impressions that sounds similar like for instance like uh What's his name?

God, tag it. There's this. What is his name? He talks kind of like this. He has his voice like this. John Cry. What's it? He was in Stepbrothers.

You know what I'm talking about? John C. Riley? John C. Riley. Yeah. Like, John C. Riley is a whole bunch of different impersonations mixed together. Like, you can do this voice and you can also switch that other voice and go to, So it's, it's, or you can, you can easily do Joe Rogan off of that and like switch it up

and talk about, um, elk meat. You know what I'm saying? So like, okay, I hear, I will hear people's voices and other people's voices when I'm really trying to nail it vocally. Now, Denzel, I had to, there was nobody who I could say sounded like that man. I had to morph my vocal cords that were still, um, going through puberty. to match that man. Yes, I was still going through puberty in my 20s.

You know, I was, I was a premature baby. I was, I came out at seven months and, and yeah, had gray eyes and light skin and no butt. Who is this? You know what I mean? So it was, that was a vocal fry. Will Smith, on the other hand, I don't know, I don't know if you hear it and people say it.

And at this time, I ain't even denying it no more. We got similar, we got like a similar vocal thing. You sound like him anyway. I sound like him. I always said that. Like, you kind of sound like Will, even when you're just talking. Yeah. And only because I'm being articulate.

Yeah. It's just, if you articulate yourself as a black man, because Will is so, you know, he's so articulate, you know, like he takes his time and then he does it. And, you know, I'm finally after all of these years, like after Van, like, who, you saw it, right? You saw what happened, right? Like, I got up there. and I lost my mind.

But here's the thing, like if I was to go after somebody, you know, it would be if you had my love, you know what I mean, yeah, that person, you see, and like, look at this, like the face is morphed, you know, like my lips, they're articulating words because I'm fixed, or if I just start relaxing and going like this and start blinking, you know, and I switched the person, you know, person, now he switched up, you know?

That's what happens, right? You just switch it up. That's what you do, Frank. You see the duck sores, right? You get the duck swords, right? That's alpaca. That's 25. But it's, yeah,

I did theater, bro, so. What a fascinating neurodiversions you have. Yeah. You're like a kid. Van is, like, on the edge of his seat, like the kid with this. I can't, I can't imagine. I can't even imagine the ability.

to go from that. And like immediately before, he just switched spirits and went right into Denzel and then Denzel's in right there. You're going to go home and practice tonight, aren't you? No fucking way. I feel like you're born with it.

I feel like you're born with it. I swear to God. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, that's something else that you have to pay attention to because, yeah, it is natural, you know, natural talent. But you do have those who are, you know,

good at it and they don't practice. And, you know, they're mediocre, you know. And you know, I've never been that, you know, because, yeah, my father was kind of like Joe Jackson. So, and when I say, you know, he would Joe Jackson me with the voices. So, like, you know, I was first starting out. And, you know, he, you know, if I was getting out of a voice, he would, you know, the belt would be, oh, what are you doing? I'm sorry. You know.

And at that time, I'm being facetious and I'm pushing out a little bit. He wasn't whipping me at that time. I was 16, but he would drill into me. He said, you're getting out of the voice. Get back in there. He did that. Oh. He's kind of, he's the reason I'm so good because it's him.

I'm naturally good at it because my mother is good at doing characters. My father's just freaking hilarious, just stupid funny. My sister is funny as I don't know what. All my family members are characters. Like, I got an uncle that looked like Captain Morgan if he was left in the hood for like three months, you know what I'm saying? Like, seriously, bro, like, he's like, he's like, he's like, nigger Sparrow, you know what I'm saying? Like, he just, he looks, like, he got the gold tooth and all of that. But watching all of these characters and seeing all of these people when I was

little, I think it just helped me with everything. And then getting into theater at eight years old and learning how to nail a character and stay in it. And then having the extra level when I got into comedy and my father pushing it. And me seeing Mr. Sammis when I was nine years old, that used to do voices as he was reading the books. That always, like, you're fascinated with this. I was fascinated with him like, yo, shut. They, yo, he changed his voice when he was doing this character. He changed when he was doing that character.

But he brought it to life. And that guy, I got a start. I've told this story, but it's different. It's a different podcast. You know, it's different podcasts. I was playing Power 10, but I was nine years old, Pocahontas. We did that play, right?

I didn't know my lines. I ain't even going to lie. And Mr. Salmon still put me in front of the teachers and everybody, and I didn't know my lines because he knew I was going to crumble. You know what I'm saying? So I had beef with him for years because of that. Not even beef, just like I can't believe he did that. Why did he do that?

Cut to 11th grade. It's a play called Damn Yankees, right? And Damn Yankees, I was Mr. Applegate. But I got that role two weeks before open the night because the lead dropped out. Ms. Shula said, I need you. I learned every single line and I won best actor that year. But cut to open a night. After I get in the lobby, Mr. Sammons is there.

The same guy that put me up on stage in front of the teachers and I didn't know my lines and the kids had to feed me the lines. He looked at me. He said, I always knew you had that in you. I was trying to bring it out of you because I saw that in you at that age. And I said, well, you know, you could have picked somebody else to do it. But he was there and we just had his reconciliation moment. It's like going from not knowing your lines and being embarrassed

to fully being in command of the character and having that same person that saw it, witnessed that. It was really special, man. Really special. It's interesting in this whole conversation because, you know, we joked about Damien. But as you've been talking to us, you've told stories about these random strangers or a teacher or somebody,

like your parents, somebody who's been influential in your life. Yeah. Angels almost feels like you've been protected throughout your life. Yeah. Completely. Yeah. And, you know, I know in 2020, you've spoken about what happened to you. And you said that you know what it feels like because of what happened with LAPD to have a knee on your neck.

And when you were, and this is a turn, but when you were sitting in the roast with Kevin heart, what was going through your mind when you heard that joke, knowing from your own personal experience, one, but then two, just as a comedian and then three, as a black man, what were you feeling? I just felt it was, I felt it was gratuitous, you know what I mean? I felt the rest of, I felt some of the, some of the Cheryl stuff. It was, it was a big gratuitous. She was talking about her dead husband or whatever, but she approved that.

But George Floyd had nothing to do with the roast. to make a double entantra, like, yeah, he died, but also he's in hell. When I was sitting there, I didn't laugh. And it's funny you said that, Rich, because I thought, I thought of it when that joke was throwing up. I was like, well, that wasn't funny. What was the point of this? If it's, listen, I pushed the line.

Everybody pushes the line. But it has to make sense and it has to be funny. And I don't feel like, I don't feel like that part was funny. I was having a good time at the rest of the roast. I was laughing. Machine Gun Kelly was sitting over there. Miles, Miles was right there. We were all laughing.

But that part, I was like, oh, yeah. I was just like, that's crazy that they would, he would think that that's okay. But then again, that's Tony Hinchcliff. And, you know, Kevin Hart had him on the roast and he knew what he brought. and he just shouldn't have brought that because that was that was gratuitous and for people in the black community who have suffered with police brutality or who have been wrongfully detained or whatever it's not a funny thing man it's it's scary because your life your life could be gone just like this with one wrong move now luckily during my um my situation you know I

I'm a very respectable person, you know, yes, sir, no sir. And I was just trying to figure out what was going on because I have never been in handcuffs. I've never even had a ticket before. You know what I'm saying? So it was always taught to me to be aware of the law and to respect those people and to always have manners, no matter what, because manners can save your life. But why would you put that part in there? I liked everything else. I liked everything else in his set.

But that part was just, come on, man. That was just, that was ridiculous, you know. So I say two things. Number one, manners shouldn't have to save your life. They shouldn't. They shouldn't have to. But I will say this. To your point, though, there were times and having times in my life,

especially earlier on. Well, I didn't even realize it was happening. I was like, I remember, I'm in Baton Rouge. I get pulled over. I'm actually speeding because someone called me and had threatened to unalive themselves. So I'm trying to get to them. Oh, man.

So I'm moving fast, right? And I remember the police officer pulls me over and he's like, hey, I'm going to be like, did you call the police? I was like, actually, you're right. I should call the police. So I go from my phone. He's like, no, no, no, no.

Right now, let's just finish this. And my dad had gave me this thing. It's called a saber light. It's a flashlight, but it has like a sort of structured way to do it. you and I went. Wait a minute. Before you go any further,

is it like the bat signal? Like you open it up and it just, help me, you know? No, it's a heavy duty flashlight, but I guess in the dark, you can mistake it for something else. And I go for the flashlight,

and I open the glove compartment, the flashlight falls out and he goes, and I went, and I'm like, oh shit, this is happening. Yeah. like, yo, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. He's like, don't reach for it, don't reach for it. I'm like, that is a fucking flashlight.

That's exactly what I said. Get out the car to hold nine. And then he goes and he looks at the, he looks at it, he grabs it. And he has it. It's a flashlight. I look at him. He looks at me. Now he's embarrassed, right?

Now he's embarrassed. Now he's like, oh my God, like what the fuck is going on? And I'm like, I want to be indignant about it, but he drew his weapon. So I'm like, I'm looking, I'm like, told you it was a flashlight, told you was full, man, get me out of these fucking cuffs. Like, give, like, the whole nine. So, like, legitimately, I get pulled over to the side, cuffed, and then they go around and they look at it.

Then they got to search the whole car. Of course. And they got to search the whole car hoping to find something to make all it is worse, the incident that they just put me through. And I kind of don't know how to react. I'm actually driving back, and this is the fucked up thing about me. I get about 10 minutes up the road and the same thing I do

every time I start laughing I mean I get about 10 minutes up the road and I'm like that actually just fucking happened are you fucking kidding me like that actually just fucking happened and like I get to where my friends had my friends beat me

to our friends place and they go damn nigga you was fucking late and I was like well I almost died to get in here so yeah the whole nine and then we all talk and we end up talking about that but people don't even understand. Sometimes you don't know how to react. You don't know how to react. You should be able to be like,

because I was driving with a guy named Reed, I might even say Reed's last name. Cop pulls us over, we don't know where to baseball practice. Reed loose at him, he says, hey, we got somewhere to be. Hurry up. Three white boy. He said, we got somewhere to be. Wow.

Like, we're late. So whatever you got to do. The testicular forges. Like, he goes, we got somewhere to be. Hurry up. And he goes, hold on for a second now. He's like, this is my. My dad's truck, the whole nine, we got somewhere to be.

Thank you, officer, snatches the ticket. We drive on. I'm like, are you fucking crazy? Yeah. But that's the... Hey, I ain't... I'll tell you this. And you're saying the best way, just like you're saying, through laughter, you got to laugh it off.

I made a joke about... I made a joke about the situation with the cops. And it actually happened. Like, yo, I'm sitting down there the cops. The cops freeze. Get on the ground. I'm on my run app. My run app.

It tells me to walk. It tells me to walk. If it didn't tell me to walk and I was still running, I probably wouldn't be here. But I get through. They tell me to get on the ground. I'm on the ground. And then the app says, run.

And I'm like, and I'm like, hell no, you know what I'm saying? But it's the joke of it. It's like you have to laugh it off. And you're talking about the way that the white dude talk to the cops. All right. So I dated my ex. She is very fair. mixed, half and half, straight up.

You know what I'm talking about? Like coffee and cream. She's half and half, you know what I mean? But she looks more Caucasian, right? So we were getting kicked out of a hotel because she was mouthing off at the manager. Manager is a sassy man, very sassy. You got a sassy man versus two warring people in one person.

You know what I'm saying? It's not going to end right. So he goes, get your stuff, get the hell out, get the hell out. This is how he sounds. Get your stuff. Get the hell out of my hotel. And I'm like, wait a minute, man. Or I'll call the cops.

Here she goes, call the po-po. I said, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. You could probably get away. You look like Mariah Carey. But me, I look like 50 cents. They're going to try to put nine in the boy. You know what I'm saying?

So it's that, it is. There's that privilege thing. And it's that white folks are different when it comes to it. And she forgot she was black that night. You know what I'm saying? She forgot there was some blackness in there. They would have to ran that car. It was, she would been going in with me too.

I got a question for you before we get out of here. A lot of people are asking. Oh, man, we got to leave that. Yeah, we're like, a lot of people are asking for Kevin Hart to apologize. I guess the question would be, yeah. If Kevin Hart did apologize, what would that sound like? Wow. Listen, listen, listen, listen.

First of all, it was a roast. Everybody's got to be cool with that. The fact that, um, I'm not responsible for what everybody says up there. It's a roast. First of all, second of all, they shouldn't have said to George Floyd York.

That was totally wrong. I should have jumped in. Should have said something like I was interrupting. When other people up there didn't say anything, but I should have said something. So if I could go back and do things differently, I would have said, I'm sorry, niggas.

I never should have let that fly. That's what I got. All right, we good? Okay. Come to my show. Come to my show. Jay Farrow. What an interesting.

This, when some places I didn't know where he was going to go, man. But I'm like, you seem really inspired and really healthy. Yeah, man. And I'm always happy to see a black man in that space.

Oh, man. Come on, man. Me too, brother. And listen, keep on striving, keep fighting and keep going. I would say that to both of you. You know what I mean?

Because, you know, you all have created a very comfortable space where people can be truthful and not take people down. This is like the, I would say, this is the anti-club-shay-she-she. You know what I'm saying? And I love Aunt. I love Shannon. And I went up there, I did the show. But, you know, it seems like it's kind of shade roomish, just a little bit when it comes to that.

Here, it just seems like you're just having an honest conversation and we're just really talking. about life and maybe things that hire learning. There you go. You learn more about people, how you're learning. And just like I learned today that Damien was the devil. Jay Farrell, thank you for joining us, brother.

Yes, sir. Thanks for having me. Oh, man. Okay, that's enough podcast. Look at it. What's the fucking time is. Van's got to get home. He's got to work on his impressions. I already know you go to text the group chat and be like, I got something. I got something for you. I know. I know. No, you were so giddy. It was actually really cute to watch.

Like, you were really like. I just love that. I don't, like, you're talking to him. You're talking to him. And you can see the way he changes his face and starts, before he even does the voice, he becomes the person. Yeah. And I'm sorry, you can work on that and get better at impressions.

But that's one of those things. Either you have it or you don't. For sure. I just believe that. Absolutely right. Have it or you don't. He did say he was on some Joe Jackson shit, but I love that type of shit. It's so crazy.

Like, why is that so you go up and you watch somebody doing an impression and you just get all, like, it's funny. No, I just, no, I enjoyed it too, but I really liked watching you enjoy it. That's cool. All right. Donnie, you got anything to say? Bernard, you got anything? Jade is out this week. Jay went to Sweden.

By the way, I can say something about Sweden real quick. You know, all you guys that went to Sweden from the ring are, fuck you guys. That's really how you feel? Yeah. NFL. So all of you guys that went to Sweden, fuck you guys. You want to be there? Well, no, I don't want to be there, but I also don't want people to make me feel like I want to be there.

So what you guys have done, you Sweden people, while we're still here stateside working, what you guys have done is purposely try to build and engineer FOMO around some Sweden shit. Oh, look at us. We're having an NBA finals watch party. That's all I saw. It's 311 in Sweden and we're up together being a family watching the NBA final.

I saw Weston. Weston, I'm surprised at you, dog. I'm surprised you taking part in this type of trolling of everybody else who didn't go. See people getting drunk in Sweden, having fun. It's going to be a whole generation of ringer babies that happened because of what's going on in Sweden. So I tell you guys, just go to Sweden, have a good time. Never mind the contractors that didn't get a chance to go to Sweden, right?

Go to Sweden, have a good time. And shut the fuck up. about it. We don't want to hear it. Next year they're going to invite you and you're going to be like I don't want to go. That's the thing. You really don't want to go. Oh. Oh. I should say this on the mic. If you're going about Sweden. Guess what? Guess what I did.

What did you do? That's what I did. This is what I did. So shout out to the people from stars. They hit me up and they were like, hey, Van, would you like to come to London to preview the new Stars Show Fightland do a set visit.

This is a show that 50 Cedness producing and all of that stuff like that. And I was like, they asked me to come. They want to go out there. And I said, you know, I'll come out to London and do the Fightland stuff if higher learning can come out and do the Fightland stuff.

Oh, wow. That's really nice. And they said yes. Oh, wow. When are we going? In late June. See? I don't know about that.

See? I don't know about that. No, I'm just kidding. I'm down. Yeah. They were like, hey, it was like, yes. Wow. I've never.

been to London. Wow, Van. Thank you. Yeah. I was like if... Well, you're not going. Damn. Bernard. That's, that's, that's, that's, yeah, it's, it's not, that's not what was going on. That's not what happened. Bernard was so excited. Bernard, you already went to Italy.

Bernard, you had your Europe vacation. I wish that, uh, I didn't have it. I know, I saw Roger. Maybe you should. Maybe you should have said that privately. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. Next time, Bernard.

Next time, but no. So you can caps off but not. Stop learning. I'm Pan Lathen, Jr. Do I still get the car? I'm Rachel and Lizzie. Bye! Hey, y'all.

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