Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Spending Memorial Day With Prentice Penny and Black Twitter

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay spend Memorial Day with Prentice Penny, creator of ‘Black Twitter: A People's History.’ They talk about his latest project and the internet’s reaction to Black Twitter events. Then, they go over the influence and cultural importance that Black Twitter has had in America. Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Prentice Penny Producer: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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See terms at Fandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. All right, guys. Time to get into it. God damn it. We have one of our most beloved culture makers on the show right now. Prentice Penny. Jesus, you know what, Prentice? First of all, before I even get into the intro,

you guys know Prentice Penny from, I think a lot of people most intimately correlate you with Insecure. You're being the showrunner on Insecure. But you've been working in the culture doing a lot of stuff throughout your career. And most notably right now, you have out the Black Twitter documentary, which is on Hulu as we speak,

a people's history of black Twitter, which I, myself, am in. Prentice, thank you for joining us on Higher Learning Today. My first question is, I didn't know you did the movie about the black wine, nigga. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What movie? Y'all didn't see that? It's called Accord. with Nisi Nash, Courtney V. Vans, and Mommadou, Athe. That's on Netflix. I loved that shit. That's what I was. Rachel, you never, it was on Netflix.

Okay, so let me give a disclaimer, for instance. I don't see movies. So it is, I will check it out. Van knows this. I don't see a thing. So I'll have to watch. You just put that up. And I remember talking to people.

I was like, there is a delightful movie about a black man in the space where I wasn't used to seeing black people at quite yet. Now I'm seeing black Somalias everywhere. You see, you know, Kev Hart, Jay-Z arguing over a Somalié. But when I saw that movie, I was, that was one of those ones, bro. Yeah, congrats on that. I know that's old, but I didn't know, I didn't realize you had done that, man. Yeah, yeah, it's so crazy. I wrote that movie.

I came up with it in 2014-ish. and it took about four years to write and get made because they were just like, most studios were like, we don't see black people do this. And I was like, black people do this. And then it came out in the, it came out in the pandemic. And it was interesting because it was one of the things too were like all of a sudden it was like Dwayne Wade dropping wine.

Everybody was like all of a sudden, all these black people were like into wine. And also everybody's drinking during COVID. So it was kind of like this weird. Yes, we were. Everybody's at home. Everybody drank it. Here's this movie about black people in wine

and black people in Paris and all these types of things because I was just like, black people travel, but you don't see that in movies. And so I was like, in Woody Island movies, you get to see white people go up and down,

Paris and France and, you know, England, but you never see us. Even though we go to these places, you don't see us there in movies. So, yeah, I just wanted to see us in spaces you don't typically see us,

but we occupy. Yeah. All right, talk about Black Twitter real quick. Love the documentary, three-part documentary on the Hulu right now. You guys go check it out. I could ask you all the stock questions that I know the answers to, but I'm going to ask you something.

I think maybe you haven't been asked. How do you feel the response to the Black Twitter documentary has been? Have you been surprised? Have you been encouraged? What do you feel like the response has been? I feel like the response, you know, there's two responses, right? There's the response to when the trailer dropped and everybody has a lot of opinions. right in terms of who what why are they going to talk about this who's why are we talking about

our secrets which is a weird thing to me to talk about that in 20204 and 2023 about black Twitter and then then it was but you don't want to give away what we're going to talk about right and what we're going to discuss and like kind of overly defended right um but the response i think post it coming out i think was super positive and obviously there's always people like why didn't do this or whatever. But I felt, I felt like, not vindicated, that's the wrong word, but I kind of knew in some way

that the response would be, once you see it, and you see what we're talking about and you see what we're doing and what we did, that it would be like, damn, we're dope. Like, I kind of expected the turn to happen

and not from a crappy place, just from like, because I knew what was in there and what we were trying to say, and that's hard to articulate in a 90-second teaser spot. what I mean. So I knew when you got to sit with it for like three hours, at least you might come away being like, even if you didn't love it, not like, oh, I don't see what's kind of happening here. Right. And so, um, so from that standpoint, you know, I feel good. I feel good. And I knew what we were trying to do. And one of the things that we've said is like, this is not like a definitive black Twitter doc. It's just a black Twitter doc, right? It's like you can talk about so many more things. You could do a Ken Burns version of this.com. documentary, that's like an eight-hour piece, just on the tech part, just on the political part,

just on the cultural part, just on the humor parts. You could do so much longer stuff, but obviously, you know, you don't always have that luxury of doing that. And, you know, we were just trying to be one of hopefully many more. So it was completely opposite for me. Van, I know Van was in it, and, you know, well-versed in Twitter. I am not. So for me, I joined Twitter. in January 2017 or February, something like that. And that's only because the Bachelorette made me. I'm not into Twitter, like social media like that. And I do it now because it's a business.

But so as I'm watching it, I am feeling so left out. I am feeling I am getting educated. I'm getting educated on things that I didn't even know. And this is why I'm outing myself about this because I know I'm not alone. And I know there are people. So it was very, there are things I knew, but I had no idea that they were tied to Black Twitter.

And that was extremely interesting to me. And so watch it through the three-part series to see how impactful Black Twitter has been in so many different sectors was even more beautiful to see. It's just, you know, I'm more so looked at it as it's a funny place to go. I didn't realize it's influence.

So if you can speak a little bit towards how impactful Black Twitter has been. And then I'm curious, do you still think it has that effect on society, whether it be political, cultural? Yeah, just in general. Yeah, I mean, it's so funny you say that. Like, Black people, I think Black Twitter thinks everybody Black is on Black Twitter. And my wife is not on social media. So she watched it and was like, I know, like, she obviously watched scandal. she obviously knows the price of my girl magic.

She knows obviously Black Lives Matter. She understands, but she didn't know where they were coming from, what was the, how did they originate? And say with my kids and my kids are like, you know, 14 and 16. So they're like TikTok here. So they didn't know where this stuff came from. They're just because they were never on the platform. So I think there is this thing where we go like, oh, we should be gatekeeping these things.

And I'm like, but there are a lot of black people that are not on social media like that. Or I'm on Facebook, but I'm not on Twitter, right? And things like that. And so this idea that like everybody already knows these things. I'm like, that's not true. Everybody doesn't always know these things. And then generations, you know, who knows that the platform will exist? So generations, like my kids, kids, kids, kids, are they going to know where this is coming from?

Are they going to know where this stuff originated from? So for me, it's like we're not just making it for today. We're making it for, you know, 50, 75, 100 years from now. Certainly as you see the government pulling books out of libraries, changing narratives in terms of, you know, there's good sides of slavery. Like what's countering all these other narratives that other parties

are trying to, you know, change in this country. If we don't have something that's like speaking truth to the opposite of that, then like what are future generations going to think or believe, right? So for me,

so to answer to your first part, I'm like, that to me is why it's important. Do you know what I mean? But I think in terms of now, I feel like, You're seeing, like, my kids are growing up in a time where, like, the phrase Black Lives Matter, Black Girl Magic or Black Boy Joy or all these things, you know, are just part of their normal lexicon. Whereas, like, me coming up, it was more like, you got to assimilate. You got to have your hair somewhere.

You can't have braids because you got to look at a certain way. You got to kind of take the luckisha out of your name and just go by Keisha, right? You got to, like, do all these things to kind of fit in in a certain way of not denying your blackness, but amending it, right? to like fit in. I feel like post Black Twitter, there's a lot of like, because in the space of Black Twitter is just being unapologetically ourselves, right?

That was sort of what the space allowed us to be. And I think coming out of that, I think you see much more of that energy. And I think you're feeling still Black Twitter energy to me more in the real world now, right? And I think like when you see the Kendrick Drake thing, that's a real thing of Black Twitter in real life, right? Or to me even more specifically,

is the thing that just happened with Marjorie Taylor Green. and the sister who's the Congresswoman, you know, like the, like the beach, like, typically in the past, Marjorie Traylor Green would have said something slick. She would have had to be the Michelle Obama, like, go high when they go low, and then Black Twitter would come to that defense.

But her response was Black Twitter in real time. And then Black Twitter just piggybacked that energy. Do you know what I mean? So I'm like, that's when I'm like, oh, you still feel Black Twitter's energy now more in the real world because back in the day a black congressman wouldn't even feel I can't even comment like that, right?

And so to me it's like when you see that energy it's like I feel like that's the, and even with my kids I just like you're seeing this generation's black Twitter energy in real time, which to me says oh, its impact is real because they're just growing up being unapologetic or pushing back in a way that I think pre-Black Twitter existing you wouldn't have felt you could push back like

that. So you said you touched on it a little bit earlier. I think one of the things I've seen is something that I kind of don't get, but I want to give you the opportunity to kind of talk about it. The idea of giving away the recipes. When people were saying, why we've got to always give away our recipes when they saw the documentary on Hulu. What should you have? What?

your response to us not letting the grander white cultural experience into something that's just for us and when people were saying that? I think that's an, I understand it, right? What I understand is that typically in this business, stories about our culture, either A, hasn't been told by us. B, if it is told, manipulated or kind of told with trying to appease the white gaze, right? And when I think about that, I think about movies that are like, the last samurai, but it's told from the Tom Cruise perspective or, you know, dancing with walls, but it's told from the Kevin Costner white male perspective, right? So even when you're talking about cultural things, you're still putting the white gaze center and like, as that's the way it's going to be accepted, right?

And so there's just a fear and a skepticism that we're going to talk about something about our culture and it's not going to feel like our culture. So I think that's the initial place because that typically is how things have been done. So I think there's this healthy fear and nervousness that like we're going to talk about something that feels like our culture, but that doesn't feel like our culture or we're trying to like walk white people through. And I and I, but I would again, what I would say to that is like one, like Twitter is a public space. even though it feels like Black Twitter feels like this secret speak-easy that you got to know the passwords to get in and blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think what's interesting, it's not like we're doing the doc in 2009 where Black Twitter still like coming up and figure out. It's like the phrase, Black Twitter is the phrase, Black Lives Matter. Like we know all these things.

We're not like, we're not secretly giving away something that isn't, hasn't moved the world in the culture already, right? We're just retroactively talking about something. Right. So the idea that we're giving away something that we all, that the world saw to me is like a little bit of a confusing. I get the skepticism of the dot, but I don't feel like we're giving away anything that hasn't already presented it. So I mean, we've, Black lies. I mean, Black Twitter moved to like get Uncle Ben and Ajama off the rice box and the pancakes. You know, Black Twitter talked about having athletes take knees as sporting events. We saw that. Like, Oscar So White is a thing that happened. The Academy changed things. We saw that. Like, I'm not, like, those are things that we saw in, for real.

Like, you weren't giving away, you weren't giving away the secret handshake. No, I'm like, it happened. I mean, I'm in a front. I didn't give away the frat secrets and the handshakes. You know what I mean? It's like, we're like, that's, it's real. Like, we saw these things move and change, right? You know, we saw, we saw verses.

We saw. You know what I mean? So, which friend is? Which friend you are? I'm a new Are you a new? So you mean to tell me You wouldn't you wouldn't tell me

The secret handshake Of the news, bro We didn't work together We I can't learn I'm a delta So I totally understand You heard there Rachel

I get it Are you triggered Stop it, man I'm probably tricked I'm probably shirmy I don't even like that I don't even like I don't even like

I don't know Let him do it Princess because he's doing it so wrong Yeah Yeah Shout out to do that shit. Shout out to Gino. Let him do it.

Shout out to Ted James. I don't know how to do that. I can't do it. I'll be in awe. Prince probably going to denounce tomorrow. Anyway. We're talking about that on the show today. Yeah.

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Zero shortcuts. everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken, garlic aoli, crumbled bacon, corn salsa, 40 grams of protein, made to keep up with whatever comes next.

New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order. Dot sweetgreen.com. Let me ask you this, because you talked about, in your response to Vans question, you talked about how this is us telling the story, which I love so much.

Is that, did you guys make a conscious decision to not include, anybody from Twitter. I mean, I know Elon Musk would have been totally out of the question. I mean, now it's an ex, but a Jack Dorsey. Was there ever any thought about, hey, let's include him as he observed

what was happening with Jack Dorsey. Maybe his thought on how it took, I don't know why fans laughing. How it took it to another level. That would have been funny. Hold on. Hold on for a second. If the black Twitter documentary

would have popped up, and then Jack Dorsey would have been on that bitch. They would have cooked his fucking ass so bad. Oh my God. I'm just thinking of they would have fucked over them so fucking bad. For sure. But I'm just curious as to, you know, his take on watching Black Twitter do what it did because it absolutely helped the app for sure. So I just wonder if there was any thought about including him at all. Are we like, nope, this is us. We're going to tell this story. without white input.

For sure. The initial thought was no white people. And if there was going to be a white person, Jack was the only person that we felt. To your point, which was do we, and not from any valid, like not from needing his, not from leading his stamp on it to be like,

oh, yes, it does. But it started to also feel like we were, and we would be pandering to that. And because it's called a people's history, we were like he's not really a people, right? And so we felt we could get just as interesting insights from the black people we had on the inside of Twitter and just use clips of Jack talking about it than needing to have him be a presence in the dock. So he was the only white person we ever considered. And the consideration went away kind of pretty quickly of like as we were assembling all the people that we were. all the people that we were talking about.

It was like, which thing is not like the other? And it felt very easily like, we can lose Jack and still tell this story. It really became that it was like, this is a people's thing. And we said, oh, if we felt we needed it, we can, like, revisit it. But let's, like, get it together before we feel like we need that voice in there. And I'm so glad we put it on that fairly quickly. Because I think once we started doing the real research of it, we was like, we don't know.

We don't need that. and it feels like but he was the only person that was ever, ever considered. Is there anything? Yeah, I just thought about it when I was watching it. I was like, huh, I wonder if they thought. Rachel was like, where the white man at?

I think the band's point, the 70, he would have cut to him. You'd have been like, what the fuck? Why is it? Rachel, Rachel was watching the documentary, guys. And Rachel was like, this is not true. Rachel was like, what a white man?

the white man. I'm watching, see all of these brothers up here. What a white man in that, man? I want to go off. I need this white man to validate that. What is the white man to feel? Are you wearing a Luca jersey right now, Rachel? No.

Okay. I'm just word of average. Is it dirt? Okay. No, it's a specialized jersey. It's my. It's got my name on it. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop

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symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping.

Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream, drips, yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. What did you guys not put in from black Twitter history? Is there anything that was too hot to touch?

Is there anything that you guys wanted to do that you didn't get as much information on? because you and I did a lengthy of very long information, and I can't think about anything that I wasn't asked about that was important to Black Twitter, but was there anything that you guys left out?

There was no topic that we felt we can't touch this topic. Like, really what it came down. Like, there were people that we wanted to talk to, like Janetta Elsie, that we just couldn't coordinate, obviously because she was

someone Sherman on to Ferguson, and there were people like that. But there wasn't a subject matter. Like, there were things that we decided not to put in the dock, not because we felt, So it was too controversial or whatever. It really was like, is it on the line of telling the story we were telling?

Because our thing was, if you can just Google it, then it's not part, it's not necessarily just a story. It has to fit our story, which was a coming of age story, right? And so there were things that were we thought would be more heavily, we would talk about, like, police brutality in a certain way, separate from Ferguson and separately from Ferguson, more so like when the Kylie Jenner thing with the commercial and she's in it for a quick second but we want to talk we had like a longer segment about that we had like a longer segment about like Rachel Dozo on appropriation but it started to feel like whenever it started to feel like you were

getting off the track of the story it was like this is funny or this is interesting but it's not helping the story move right and so for us it was like really pulling things out like that but there was nothing in terms of like a topic that we thought no we can't it was like Yeah, to me it was like the more, I don't say controversy, but the more, however, things that has more interesting little pieces to it, then that's more interesting than things that feel like, we don't want to touch that. Like, that's the stuff we did want to touch.

I loved, as y'all were telling the story, all the memes that would pop up to describe the things that you guys were talking about. What is your favorite black Twitter meme that's tied to it? Yeah, I mean, that was such a, you know, one of the things that we, just to, just to before answer that, is like, one of the things you wanted to do with the doc, for me, that was difficult was like visually, how do you give it a visual style

because it's all on your phone, right? Like, visually, how do you make this doc feel dynamic, right? And so for us it was we wanted the viewer to feel like they were, like almost literally inside Black Twitter themselves. Like, if you were watching it on a TV and if you were very close to it, would you feel like you're inside a thing? And does it, does the doc feel the way Black Twitter talks, right? just a bunch of memes and gifts or responses or, you know, things go from a person,

scroll down to another person starts talking. We wanted it to feel visually dynamic. So to that, we were using memes and gifts to punctuate serious moments or comedic moments in the same way that, like, real life Black Twitter does. So saying that to say, like, the LeBron James walking out of a press conference to me is always the best, it's such a funny one because it's like, not as it easy walking out of a press conference, but he's walking out in like a suit with shorts and he's like carrying

like a little man purse case. Whatever. Yeah. It's so it's almost like the way Shannon Sharp has like his little puppy all the time. It's just so comical like a big purse with like a little bitty thing. That's a great one to me. I love Tiffany Pollard's mom sliding off the couch. It's like one of my favorite one. The fact is so funny.

Yeah, Uncle Denzel is such a great meme, I think too. Because I think the ones that are like, when you see like people who are so contrary to their normal, that's what like the LeBron thing is so funny or the Denzel one because it's like, he was the sexiest man alive. And now he's up here looking like an uncle in a track suit. You know, it's like not anytime it's so contrary to how you see them normally to me is so, it's always so great. Denzil wasn't fucking with that. That's what I always remember. Boy, what can you do? Yeah.

You can talk, but can you do? Oh, my God damn, Denzel. No, we wasn't in training day. We got some jokes about the mustache. We still love you. The Uncle Denzel one is the, yeah, the Uncle Desil one in me is such a great. How your mama doing? Like, that's all those, like, all those behind that is so great.

All right. Last question for me. We appreciate your time. Black, People's History of Black Twitter is a documentary on Hulu. Shout out to Honest Collective. Shout out to my friends over at Culture House. Shout out to Carrie and Ray and everybody

over there, Culture House. Shout out to all the ladies of Cultural House. Getting things made right now. You're getting stuff made. There is a lot of consternation right now.

Forget about the black Twitter sphere. There's consternation in the black Hollywood sphere. about people being able to get things made in a marketplace where

things are a little bit more compressed to all of the creatives out there that still want to tell their stories that look up to you, that want to get their stuff out there, what would you say to them right now in a time in the town where things seem to be

a little stress for a lot of people, especially coming off the strikes? Yeah, I think the strike definitely consolidated. One, there's a lot of consolidation in general, right? There's like four huge conglomeras that own every studio, right? Like, you could look at Disney, they own nine and ten brands, right? Like, you know, Universal or Discovery, they own eight brands. You know what I mean? And so there's so few, like, competitive players because they're all under basically like four companies, right? So like the need to bid against each other is like who are you, you're kind of

bidding against like basically two people. people, essentially, right? So it doesn't create that. And then the ways that the, I mean, without getting into the like, like the mechanics of how streaming verse, like versus linear and all that stuff. But I think like anything, like I've worked, this would be like my year 21 for me in terms of like working. I've been through two strikes. And I just have seen the way black TV has these like peaks and valleys, right? So whenever somebody asked me, like I remember when insecure was out and it was like us and Atlanta and blackish and queen. sugar and it was like, oh man, all these black

shows, he's like, are we here to stay? And I was like, I would always be like, we'll see. I've seen me like, I remember, you know, like, I started, I went to college in the early midnight. So I remember the run of like John Singleton, Menace of Society, South Central, and it's like, all these black filmmakers

and then they just dropped. And then it was the 2000s where it was like, here comes to that game and the brothers and all these sort of like black rom-coms. And it was like, oh man, here we go. And then nothing. And then it was like, you know what I mean? So I've watched the like ebb and the flow. And I just think like so much of that is cyclical, right? Like I think like we're also in a time now where it's like in the black Twitterness. Sometimes it might be like, okay, we're tired of hearing black shit for now. So we're going to push on the back burner until we're ready to like something's going to like something's going to be like, you know what I mean? And then it'll be like, let's get our run going. And so I don't really have the right answer. I would say keep making your stuff. I do think we live in a time to, where when I think about somebody like Issa and things like that that exist

on YouTube or things that can exist in other forms, like not everything is going to have to be on HBO or not everything has to be on at that level. Like you can get your art out and monetize it slightly differently than I could when I was graduating college and when I was starting out, right? Because like the means to make something

is so much less like when I was coming out, you had the shoot on film. There was no other, now you could make a movie on your phone. You know what I mean? You can eat on your computer. Like, you don't have to have, you can upload it and people can see it immediately. Like, that just wasn't an option that existed for me when I was starting out.

So not everything has to exist in that form that is like, oh, it's on Hulu or it's on this. You know what I mean? That's obviously it has other benefits to that. But I just think there's other ways to get your art out until. So I would just say keep making stuff because you don't ever know what's going to strike, when's going to strike. You never know what's going to happen in the real world. where that's going to like, oh, this is like kicking off something kind of interesting and dynamic. So my philosophy is like keep doing what you're doing.

And if it's like really good, those things I do think shine through inevitably. Black Twitter of people's history on Hulu right now, Prentice Penny. Thank you for your time today. Thank you. Thank you for coming on higher learning. Everybody go check it out. Until you bless us with something else, Prentice, man. Until you bless us with something else, we're going to keep our eyes on this.

I appreciate that. I told you, I texted you how, you know, my son, like, listened to y'all. When I told him I was going to be on the thing, he was like, he was like, oh, you're doing something now. So shout out to y'all for you. Like, y'all doing it. My son listened to y'all all the time. And when I talked about, I was like, oh, would be on high alert. He was like, oh, like, where do I get a rise out of my kids?

So the fact that I was going to be on y'all thing, he was like, okay, that's official. Yeah. Oh, thank you for that. Tell them, thank you. I will. I will. I will. Let me know that I'm thinking about grad. Dad, Dan. Stop that.

All right. Peace, brother. All right. Bye. Bye.