Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The (Attempted) Assassination of Trump and the Normalization of Political Violence in America

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay talk about the assassination attempt on Donald Trump during his rally this past weekend and the reactions from both the right and left. Then, they talk about Trump’s influence on the growth of political violence in America and what this situation could mean for the election. Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producer: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. Oh, fuck it. What's up, Rachel? I feel like I'm matching your food. I feel you. I feel you completely. And honestly, I think anybody who listening probably feels the same way. Fuck it.

Let's just, yeah. Let's just go. But before, I mean, anybody who's watching it is going to have to acknowledge the attire that you're in. I just want to get that out of the way before we get into everything. Van, I was immediately taken aback when I turned on my camera and saw you. For what reason? It's one thing for you to be wearing a cowboy hat. We're used to it.

It's with us. We've come to know and love it. It's another thing. It's one thing for you to be wearing that chain. You wear the chain, majority of the time too. It's another thing for you to be wearing a robe with, Chest exposed. Anybody who's one word that comes to mind, that's porno.

You look like you are about to go on set. That's what you're giving right now. This tab here is non-cancerous. Okay, well, thanks for letting everybody know because that's what they were focused on. I got to check out. It's just a lot. Look, here's a deal.

I don't even think I've ever seen your chest before. So it's just all the lot. So here's the deal. I used to have a collarbone before the Yeah, but here's a deal. Look, I'm here. Shout out to the NAACP. I'm here at the NAACP convention

in Las Vegas. As I look to my left, I can see Allegiance Stadium. Right over there. You can see it right there. It's the Raiders Stadium. It's for the Raiders. They play there.

It's hot as fuck in Vegas. And this, when I can't, back to my room, it was a little care package. And the care package was of all these black bone things. Oh, nice. For various places. And this robe was one of them. So I put the robe on and it's very, very nice. I've been wearing it around because I haven't really been going outside as much because it's very hot. Also, you know what? What? I just feel like who fucking cares, you know? Like, what, what? Rachel, can things, what is me being dressed properly going to change right now. It's absolutely not going to change anything, which is not why I brought

it up. It's just for people watching, I would just like to address what's different in the room. That's all I'm saying. It caught my attention, and I'm your co-host. So I'm sure other people will acknowledge it as well. Listen, I'm a robe lover. There have been many of times that I've done this podcast in a row. I just haven't seen you do it. But you're right. It pales in comparison So what's happening right now in this country and all the things that we have to discuss on this podcast today and I'm sure we'll carry on into the next one and the next because things have taken a turn as this weekend.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiara Radio.com. Okay, let's get right into it. Donald Trump survived an assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania on Saturday evening. We all watched this unfold. the rally was being televised on CNN and almost immediately you could see a video where Trump is speaking

and it looked as if something whizzed past his ear he then grabbed for his ear and was immediately hustled to the ground by the Secret Service. He got down, hustled to the ground by the Secret Service. The gunman who had an AR-15-style rifle, an AR-style rifle, I say it was about 150 yards to the north. He had climbed onto a roof of the building outside of a building, outside of the

Raleigh, security perimeter. There are people who saw him climb this building, excuse me, as I get my words correct. And I tried to alert authorities that he was up there to no avail. He was able to get off some shots at President Trump. He did not hit President Trump. A lot of people are saying that now what hit President Trump was glass that was front. flying up from his prompter, but we're still waiting for a definitive answer on whether or not there was glass or a bullet whizzing by his ear. But someone in the audience was killed along

with the gunman. Um, look, this is one of the most significant occurrences in recent American, um, political, discourse and really for the American community there is no way to overstate that an assassination attempt on a former president

and the presumptive nominee the Republican Party in a election year is a startling a startling occurrence a desperate and dire situation it creates

we've seen obviously the rise of political violence in recent years. This is not the first instance or occurrence of it. But at this level, the opportunity to spill out into the streets or for this to become a regular occurrence or for there to be retribution, would it just change the fabric of everything that's going on, how it affects all kinds of different aspects of not just this election, but of what we're doing at this particular time. America's like, you know, not stranger to political violence. It's part of what built the country. But for it to happen now in this way, on this stage, particularly with this person, is just incredibly

noteworthy and serious. What was your response when you heard about it? Oh, man. The first thing that I heard, because I wasn't watching it live, like so many other people were. I think several people were watching it. A lot of people watching live because I thought, too, that he was going to announce his vice president selection. The first thing I saw was that it was a shooting.

There was a shooting at the rally, which obviously is serious in itself. And then as more details started to come out and I quickly learned that it was an assassination attempt. And then that someone died at the rally in attending a father, husband, a friend, and the killer was killed as well. Listen, what happened is a shame, and it speaks to extremism, it speaks to violence, it speaks to hate, it speaks to divide in this country.

And obviously, on higher learning, neither one of us call for violence against anyone, no matter who they are. and it's terrible. Like, you can't talk about it just without talking about that man who lost his life trying to shield his family. We had to witness their dad dying right in front of them, protecting them.

I can't even imagine. I listened to the doctor who ran over to try to offer aid to him. And he spoke about the look on the face of the daughter and the mother. And it's terrible. that this happened. But you can't talk about what happened without talking about how this highlights the very

country that we live in. It highlights a country that ignores gun violence. It highlights a country that it ignores the who, the what, the why of the nature of gun violence in this country because gun violence defines America, whether it's school shootings, whether it's mass shootings, whether it's festivals, whether it's at grocery stores, whether it's churches, and now a present-day assassination. And it's a consequence of the country's weak gun laws

and guns everywhere and just the culture, the nature of this country, but also coupled with the extreme rhetoric from extremists calling for violence in this country in various ways. I just I'm just going to stop there because we're going to keep talking about it

and I don't want to get us to the weeds of everything So this is my thing Okay so let's say these things one at a time Right Let's actually start with the man who lost his life Okay You described him in a way that is insanely humane,

gracious and thoughtful and the way someone that loses their life in a senseless act like this should be described. And we should remember people. We remember people the good parts of people, right? Father, right? Firefighter, all of those things, right?

Yeah. All right. And we would hope that in the midst of tragedy like that, that's the way people will be remembered in and described. Okay. But there are questions, right? And these are the questions. Since this man has passed away,

people have gone through his Twitter replies. People have looked at what he's posted on social media. And let me just let's have a discussion about it because this is going to, the questions that we're going to ask now that we're here are questions that I think are fundamental to our understanding of whether or not we can repair this country and move on as a semi-united country, which it's never felt that united for me, or whether or not this is a conflict that needs a winner. Because when you have a conflict, there are two ways to get through it.

One is compromise and one is domination. You approach people differently, whether or not you're willing to compromise with them, rather than if you feel like you have to win. If me and you can talk it out, that's one thing. But if I have to beat you, it's a different. My dad used to have a saying, rest in peace. He was like, anything that's worth a fight is worth a talk, and anything that's worth a talk is worth a fight.

So what he would say is, if it's a big deal enough, if it's a big enough deal for us to talk about it, then we could very well end up fighting about it. But if it's a bigger deal for us to fight about it, then we could also very well talk it out. So what I'm saying is even in remembering this guy The question is

Is this a talk that we're having with the right That we're having with Trump supporters That we're having with people on that side? Or is it a fight? Because if it's a fight Then you have to give credit to people To being who they are And there are going to be people

who look at that man's social media, who look at some of the things that he was saying and say that that is a person that represented some of the worst ideas that parroted some of the most racist and backwards talking points that he's been given from the far right. And the only thing that you can do with that

is extinguish it. So that's the first thing. So before we even move on to talk about the specificity, of President Trump and all of that. We have to talk about the way we're going to respond to this in the wake of an innocent person losing their life. The ex-president being shot at.

Have we lost the ability to look at Trump supporters or people that died in the world as human beings and fellow members of the American society? Or do we look at them as people, people who have got to be extinguished so that we can be safe in this country. Because the way that you answer that question is going to inform the amount of sympathy, the amount of empathy, the amount of humanity, the amount of care that you extend to people,

not just the man that lost his life, but to Donald Trump himself, to be honest with you. What do you think? I don't agree with, I guess, the latter of what you're saying. I assume that everybody who is at a Trump rally is an extremist. That is how I see it. For you to pack up, get in a car, drive out to wherever he's going to be, put on your t-shirt, bring your poster. You are maga to me. You fully embody and represent everything that Donald Trump stands for.

So the fact that people have dissected his Twitter and gone through it and seen all of these outrageous extreme things, doesn't it shock me? Those, that is who I see in that audience, period. Black, white, Latino, everybody, every man, man, woman, non-binary, anybody. That is what I see. So the means don't justify the ends here to me. I can't look at that and say, well, because this is what he represents, he's deserving of this. then I would also have to say that about President Trump. I don't believe that that is the way we eliminate the problem.

I'm just never going to be that person. I get what you talk about about compromise and domination is so true. But what does domination mean? To me, I can never see it as going as extreme as to losing a life. He might have been a warrior on social media, but anything short of him taking out his gun and matching that same type of violence, I can't say any of that was justified.

That's just me and where I stand. There has to be another way. The other way can't be this. And as much as I despise Donald Trump, I'm still not going to agree that that has to be the means to justify that. What happened.

Let me ask you this. And by the way, I'm not saying that I feel any of these ways. I know. I'm having a conversation that people are having. Is it okay if you don't care? Is it okay if you don't care that that man was killed? Is it okay if you don't care that President Trump was shot?

Because what I do feel like is this. And I'll be honest with you. John Lewis died. Right. Donald Trump didn't go to his funeral. Right? Yes. Yes.

Donald Trump didn't go to John Lewis's funeral. And when he talked about John, I mean, you know, other presidents went there. And the reason why, you know, you saw President Bush there, you saw President Clinton there, Barack Obama was there. and the reason why they went there was to show that they cared about the life of John Lewis. Absolutely. Whatever political differences they might have had of John Lewis,

obviously Clinton and Obama probably didn't have any. Maybe H.W. was there too. Ashley, could you look up which U.S. presidents attended the funeral of John Lewis? H.W. might have been already gone on in, but, you know, they went. They went to show that they cared about the life of John Lewis. this show that they care, right?

They cared about what he did, what he sacrificed, what he had meant to American civil rights, and to politics by being a stalwart, in the, Star Wars, shall I say, in the party for so long. So they went there. Collie, they cared about. Trump didn't go.

And when asked about why he didn't go, he said the guy didn't like me. The guy didn't like me, he didn't have very nice things to say about me. He didn't go to his funeral. He did not go to John Lewis's funeral. And he didn't bash John Lewis. He didn't say John Lewis was this or John Lewis was that. He said, I don't care.

I don't care about the guy. The guy didn't go to my funeral. I don't care. Right. And what's going to happen now? And I'm not saying that you have to go tip for tap. What I'm saying is this. What's going to happen now is we're going to spend the next X amount of time

trying to prove and demonstrate to everyone how much we care about this and how righteous we are and how pure we are. Oh, no, no, no. wait a second. I'm not talking about you. Me and you are having a conversation that's two people. I'm talking about,

so Obama, Clinton, and George W. were there. Okay. Obviously, George W. Bush didn't have very much in common with John Lewis, right? But George W. Respect, and a piece of shit that he is still took it upon himself

to show that he cared about John Lewis and go to the funeral. Trump did. So not everybody's going to prove how awesome they are and how much how terrible this is and they're going to go out

and try to pass a purity test to whom for a reason I don't even know for a group of people I'm not sure they're trying to pass it for and you know these are the same people

I'm just speaking my heart here guys I'm not trying to say that in any way I don't feel terrible for this man's family and feel terrible for anyone that's a victim of violence

but these are people who tell you how much they don't care about George Floyd. There's people who tell you how much they don't care about, you know, John Lewis. You know, the president, President Trump said he didn't care about John McCain, who was a P-O-W, right?

And so all of this stuff is going on. The first thing we're going to do is make sure we tell people just how bad this is, just how much. It is bad. It is terrible. It is discussing. It represents the worst of us. It represents,

like how conflict of resolution shouldn't be done. But we have to get back to the thing now. Like we have to get back to the thing. And the thing is understanding just how much of our words, energy, and actions in this moment can be used to enshrine and codify a vision of this that we do not want, that we cannot live with or live in.

And there is a sort of, when I say, I'm not asking people to not be human, not at all, but I am asking them to not be weak and understand that nobody except for Donald Trump is responsible for the rise of political violence in this country. nobody except for Donald Trump is responsible. The extremism that we see in America today, no one except for him. He's made it part of our political conversation. Does he deserve to die for that?

Absolutely not. Does he, did that man at that rally deserve to die for that? Absolutely not. But if y'all spend the next five or six days trying to show everyone how good y'all are and how not like them y'all are, y'all are, y'all going to be by yourself because I'm not doing that.

I already know that I believe in God, that I want people to be free, that I want people to be able to worship, that I want people to be able to go to rallies, and all of that without feet, of reprisal from things above them or from people who don't want them to be free? I just don't think the other side feels that way.

Go ahead. The other side doesn't feel that way because immediately what happened was finger-pointing. And to your point, I agree with you. I will also say that is one of the feelings that I'm really feeling in all of this is extremely annoyed. I am annoyed at the people who I saw rush to social media

to feel like they had to say something to your point to prove, how good they are. Rather than the question is, why are we here and how did we get here? And what can we do to get out of this situation, not even move past it, to get out, right? Because we've been in this place for a very long time. I see a lot of people compare what's happening in 2024 to 1968. I'm not going to go through all of that, but obviously that was a huge, huge year. And the one thing people would say that was missing in 2024 versus 1968 was an assassination. And now we've had an assassination attempt.

Very much so divide, a lot of pain, a lot of extremism. So I'm annoyed at the people that I see that feel like they have to prove something because we become like sheep when it comes to this. The issue is, why did this happen? Why are we here? And to your point or what I was saying before about, the finger pointing, we're already here. You have Republicans already jumping on this.

And far right people saying, well, this is the doing of Biden. It is because Biden has demonized Trump. You have these left political networks, or not political, but left platforms that have spoken a certain way about Trump and have talked about him in such a way that people are scared. And so they're acting on it now, totally ignoring what has been done as to you. as to what you pointed out with the political violence that Trump has incited since the moment that he started running for this office. It's already.

And I think, too, the other reason I'm annoyed and not just how people are responding, but I guess the hypocrisy of whose life matters really is getting to me. You know, there are people who, you know, are on opposite ends of the political spectrum than us that are calling attention to how horrible this is. and it is horrible, and we set that from the jump on this podcast. But they're acting as if it's not the same when another life is targeted and killed. It's horrible for anybody to die at the hands of gun violence, not just when it's the president of the United States. And they're making it very clear that this is different. We should value this in a different way,

as if other lives that have been lost shouldn't be valued. And I know we're going to get into Trump's history on inciting violence and gun violence, but it has to be said in the context of why I'm also annoyed because it seems like the way people are talking as is that this life is valued more than the lives that were lost in the Las Vegas shooting than the lives that were lost in school shootings and the lives that were lost in that Orlando Club shooting. It's all the same. It's all the same. well, it is all the same, but, I mean, if I'm being honest, so every single life is the same. But I mean, this one, it's a higher leverage situation, right?

It's a higher, but it's, go ahead. Well, I mean, what I mean is that like when, so people are scared to varying degrees when something that happens, I mean, the significance of an ex-president or somebody else being killed, I mean, it shouldn't be any. difference, but if we're being honest, like, this could make people go crazy and this could start, this could start an American Civil War, there could be all kinds of retribution for this, it's something that scares people because it's not more important, but in a way, it's more dire, desperate, and seems uniquely significant when you have someone who is this much of a symbol to people or has this much political power. when you see someone take a shot at them,

people are not going to respond to that in the same way that they do other shooters, whether they should or whether they won't. And I agree with you. My point is that they should. It should be horrible that people have access, like can commit gut violence in this country in the way that they do and so freely

because the laws are so loose or because they're ignited by some sort of extreme belief. It's a problem. It's a problem. I guess that's what I'm saying is the, I understand you and I actually agree with you in that. I'm just saying the push for us to acknowledge how horrible and terrible this is because we don't see this every day. We don't see a president, somebody attempting to assassinate a president that often.

And we're a little bit, it's been watered down as how often we've seen these mass shootings happen. Both are equally wrong and problematic. And everybody's lives should matter the same. But because we don't see one that often and whose office. it is versus seeing it all the time and civilians not being aren't mattered in the same way. I'm just saying the way that it's being talked about to me

has really bothered me. I guess the call for caring about it in a different way. It's bothering me. I feel you. Because I think it threatens to fray something that people think is maybe a little bit more intact than what it is. Let me give an example on the wire. So season four of the wire, are you ever watch the wire? Do you watch it show you look at it? Yeah, I've seen the whole

Okay. Cool. So remember season four to wire. Season four to wire, my man Stringer, man. Shout out to Stringer, bro. You flew too close to the sun. Stringer was trying to make some money with Clay Davis.

Right? Trying to make some money with Clay Davis. And he got fucked over. Clay Davis took $250,000 off Stringer. Stringer comes back to the Barksdale headquarters. And he says to Slim Charles, he says, I need you to hit somebody. And Slent Charles, who was, you know,

their lead muscle at the time, so who we hit. And Stringer goes, Clay Davis. Now, Clay Davis is a councilman, big political player there in Baltimore. And it might have been a state senator at that point. I'm not sure what it was. But I think he might actually have been a state senator. And he goes, the Clay Davis.

Slim Charles goes, And then, um, uh, uh, Schinger goes, yeah. He goes, you mean downtown Clay Davis? And he goes, yeah, he goes, string. I don't know. The stringer goes, I remind you who you work for. And about at this point, Avon and stringer wasn't getting along at this point. About this point, Avon comes into it and Avon says, I think, I think Slim

Charles is going to have to sit this one out. And he goes, well, he stole out money. He goes, well, you did, you basically need a day of the jackal type of mother. the fucker. You talk about some assassination type shit. Not a rough and tumble nigga like Slim. You kill somebody like that. Everybody is going to stand up and take notice, right?

And then he admonishes him for trying to play away games and all that. Great scene. One of the best scenes of the show. I say all that to say that, Slim in that situation would have been willing to kill anybody on the street. But when it came to Clay Davis,

he wasn't going to do it because it was going to make people look up in the different way. It was going to make people take interest in a different way. It was going to make people scare people in a different way. Right? And it shouldn't be that way, but it just is. And the gun violence that exists in America, the country is full of people that you can't kill and people that you can't kill. And people who it matters when you kill them and people that it just doesn't matter when you kill them. And people are going to be more afraid when Dr. King or JFK or Bobby or Reagan is shot or Trump is shot or something like that because of what they feel like it means to the greater

stability of American discourse. So like it doesn't mean more that somebody to a shot at Trump. It doesn't matter more, but it means more. It doesn't matter more. Every life matters, but it means more because it means that we've reached a very specific inflection point in political discourse. And that inflection point scares the shit out of a lot of people. It's like, it scares the shit out of a lot of people. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for performance. Lunch window, gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies.

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Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Let's listen to some reactions. This was the reaction of President Joe Biden. A former president was shot, an American citizen killed, while simply exercising his freedom to support the candidate of his choosing. We cannot, we must not, go down this road in America. We've traveled before throughout our history. Violence has never been the answer, whether it's with members of Congress and both parties

being targeted in the shot, or a violent mob attacking the Capitol on January 6th, or a brutal attack on the spouse, a former Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. or information and intimidation on election officials, or the kidnapping plot against the sitting governor, or an attempted assassination on Donald Trump. There is no place in America of this kind of violence for any violence ever. Period. No exceptions. We can't allow this violence to be normalized.

You know, the political record in this country has gotten very heated. It's time to cool it down. We all have a responsibility to do that. Before we move on to some other responses, what did you think about Joe's response? I mean, it was exactly how it should be. I think Democrats have to be delicate. At that time, immediately after, he had to condemn what happened. And he had to, you know, send his sympathy to the people who were victims in this assassination attempt.

There were other reactions as well. Representative Tim Burchett reacted. Ashley, give it to us. Really dropped the ball. You've got a DEI, basically, a person, a DEI initiative person who heads up our Secret Service.

You know, she was working at Pepsi before this. I know she was a former Secret Service agent, but still, this is what happens when you don't put the best players in. It's a complete failure on our part. See what the fuck I'm talking about? Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't expect anything else from the other side. So here's, so, and this might be a tough topic, but I'm just going to ask anyway.

Do you feel, you asked me what I thought of Biden. Do you feel like he should have been different in his response, his first response to addressing the country? Because that was just some, and I don't want to say like just some, yes, that was a congressman, obviously a Republican congressman, but I wouldn't expect anything less wrong. From the president, he can't respond the same way. Joe Biden is not the president of the left. Joe Biden is not the president of the center. Joe Biden is the president of the United States of America.

So he's president to all of the MAGA people. If you're living in this country right now, Joe Biden is your president, right? So he has to respond in a way that, you know, same thing's down. It's perfect response. I thought the response was great because I also thought to the response showed or demonstrated that there have been instances of political violence in the past that obviously no one's given a shit about. You know, Gretchen Whitmer, the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband, and just the way that the right reacted to those things, I want to let people know.

If you are competing for the moral high ground with the right, you won. So what I'm saying is as you talk and as you litigate this intellectually, make sure it's for reasons of instruction and coalition building. Because if you're trying to gain the moral high ground with the right, certain parts of the right, I'll say, you've won. These are people who laughed at the attack on Nancy Pelosi. These are people who brushed off the plot to kidnap Brett and Whitmer. These are people who've called for violence, who've made violence and the threat of violence a part of their rhetoric. Just a couple of weeks ago, we talked about on this very show.

The Leader of the Heritage Foundation said that we're in a Second American Revolution that will be bloodless if the left allows it to. I'm saying, if there is a part of this that is, going to change when I say a part of this. I mean, the way that we go about talking and discussing politics, make sure we're doing it for reasons that are truly

nutritious. Because if we're trying to pass a purity test, it's wasted energy and momentum. It's wasted. I saw right away, we're pulling all of the ads,

and we're going to change the way we talk about things and all of that. Yeah. It's, I understand it, but everything that was true Saturday morning about the prospect of four more years of Donald Trump, everything that was true that morning is still true. Everything. Correct.

Everything that was true that morning is still true. But you get why they pulled it. Oh, not really. Well, it's a strategy, right? So people are watching how the Democrats, respond to this. And you don't have to agree or not, but it's a political strategy. So they're not saying that they can't re-post what he's, all the problematic things he's done. But the messaging might have to be more about unity because of what's happened.

I'm just telling you, I'm just telling you, if the Democrats don't, it's not fair. But if the Democrats keep an energy, I shouldn't say like that, the messaging will be the same. I just think it has to be couched in what happened on Saturday. It's a political strategy. People are watching. If the Democrats seem heartless, like, they don't give a fuck, then people, it's, all right. I agree, I agree with you that you shouldn't seem heartless. You shouldn't be heartless.

But the question is, at the end of the day, like, how far do you have to go with it, right? I don't think it'll be that far. I just think it'll be couched in. I don't think. I really don't. I don't think they're going to have ads that are like show Trump what happened to him and telling us to feel bad. Like, I think it might be some of the things

that we're discussing today on this podcast. Gun violence is a problem in this country. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, it's political. There was an article that came out, I think it was in The Spectator or whatever, and it said, today we are all magma. No, the fuck we ain't.

That's different. But listen to what I'm saying, though. What I'm saying is this. What I'm saying is this. And this is really the end of it. Once you've come out, condemned the shooting, condemned political violence, condemned even extremist rhetoric towards the other side,

you've won the moral test, the moral battle. you've won it. And if you mean to tell me that there's some fair-minded, independent voter who looks at the right and sees them laugh at violence, sees them encourage violence, sees them intellectually codify violence, and doesn't hold the Democrats to that same standard, I'm telling you that's a voter you already lost. I'm asking you who are you doing this for. Like right now, what is in danger of happening is that there are a lot of people out there, in my opinion, that are in danger of losing their nerves. And that to me is a much, much, much, much bigger consequence of this than anything else is.

There is never a point in life where I am going to go to using violence, threats, or intimidation to achieve a goal. that intellectualism, conversation, and a battle of ideas can achieve. I'll never do that. But what I am saying is, to me, you have to stay the course in what you're doing and in the battle that you're fighting. And I just don't want to see them go too fucking far. I don't think they will, but I do agree in the reading. You have, a wrench has been thrown in it. I'm not trying to make light on what happened with the assassination attempt.

But the course of the election has changed with an assassination attempt. If you were at war, you would have to restructure, which we are, you would have to assess what has happened and move accordingly. That's why all I'm saying, which I understand why ads were pulled. It's not like they're saying they're pulled forever and they're going to not fight as hard. They have to change how they're going to address. what happened or they have to they have to move around it. I just don't see it being that extreme. If the right right now is saying it's been reports and of course we know it's going to be true, R&C starts today, Republican National Convention. They're already saying that Trump is

rewriting his entire speech to be about unity. That is somebody who is restructuring his entire thing, his entire platform based on what happened. And there will be many of people who will forget. And it's our job and the media's job of whoever else to remind people of who Trump is. A horrible situation happens Saturday that does not change the character or the nature of Donald Trump. This man is who he is. But he is going to do a speech and everybody else I'm hearing who speaking is changing their entire thing to be about unity. When Trump was shot on that stage, shot at on that stage, what did he yell?

fight, fight over and over again. That's not unifying. That's not unifying. That's who he was in the moment. But if they're doing that, or Trump's doing things now like calling for the Secret Service to give RFK Jr. security.

He's doing things to make himself seem like a martyr and that he is this unifying figure. That's going to be his new path. The Democrats have to act according to. So they got a restructure to. So, what?

Wait, so you act accordingly then by... Not act accordingly. They have to restructure is what I'm saying. Wait, right, right. Okay, so, I mean, but let's talk about that. Okay, cool. So they're going to now paint themselves as the Dalai Lama and Martin Luther King Jr. And all of these other figures, right?

So then you react accordingly by also softening? No, I don't think... I said the word... When I say act accordingly, I mean, like, act and react to what has happened. So you have to now change your strategy as well. You have to remind people he is not that person. Right.

And that's my point. And so my point in saying that is that's why let this look, everybody listen to me right now. I'm not saying that you ramp up attack ads on Donald Trump after an assassination tip. I'm not fucking stupid. Listen. Everybody listen to me.

I'm not saying that you ramp up attack ads on Donald Trump after an assassination attempt that would be stupid. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying, though, is after a certain point, you've condemned it from top to bottom.

You've talked about American political violence from top to bottom. You've done that. I said it. Four, five days of letting people know that this is something that the party does not celebrate, does not what and that this is bad for America.

After that, get back to making sure Americans know what the choice is. Making sure Americans know who they're talking to what these people are talking about now and what they've talked about in the past. Make sure they know what the choice is because the other side will try to fool you. But they can't. They can't. Any talk of unity and all of that, well, is way too late. Of course.

It's way too late, particularly from them. Is unity deporting 10 million people? Like, is unity taking all African American studies and DEI programs out of schools and businesses and governmental facilities everywhere? Is that unity? is unity attack on our history? Is unity defunding programs for people to be able to feed themselves?

Is that unity? Is unity taking away women's bodily autonomy? Does that unify people? Like, what's unifying about all of that? So, like, what part of, of unifying Americans has the assaults, on affirmative action then. How is that you to find people?

So I know so all I'm saying is I get that they'll pivot. The Democrats, to me, need to double down on what it is that they're up against. And that crazy person that took a shot at the president

who they say as a registered Republican, I mean, all of that stuff, you take it with a grain of salt when you're looking at someone like who would do something like that. that is a terrible, ridiculous, horrible, abhorrent. Like, I'm searching the recess of my mind for more adjectives. It's terrible.

Nobody wants it. Nothing has changed in terms of what we're up against. Any weakness or frame will lead to actually empowering the other side to move forward as things that they hate. They say that they hate victims and martyrs so that they can grab more power because they're going to forget about this and continue to do the things that they wanted to do.

So I would imagine that you were bothered by the fact that they pulled Morning Show off the airways this morning. Of course. Yeah. I turned on this. We both watch morning show. I turned it on so much.

Okay, I do. You used to. I watch it. And I like to see what they have to say. I like the panelists that they bring on. I like the journalists, all of it. I turned it on and I was confused. And then I started seeing that it was trending everywhere that they had removed it. If that continues to happen, then I totally understand like the fear and all the things that you were saying. I don't. I think it's just a restructure to respond. to what has happened. But when I see things like the pulling of Morning Joe, because you're afraid of what, even though he tweeted out that he was praying for Trump's family, it's like they were so afraid on live television. Let me say this. Allegedly, that is what a report came from somebody's reported to CNN,

that allegedly they were concerned on live television, what Joe Mika or one of the panelists would say. That is the kind of fear that we cannot allow to happen. We need programs that are going to acknowledge what happened, condemn what happened, but also talk about where we are as a country. And removing that, that Fox News didn't remove anybody. They had people left and right pointing fingers at the other side. And I'm not saying that that's what Morning Joe would have done. But to remove them is a dangerous,

as a slippery slope. That's what I'll say. They're supposed to be back tomorrow, but I'm just saying that's how we can't respond. And if that's your fear, I totally get it. we didn't fucking need him tomorrow. We needed him the day. It's tail tucking. And look, and look, it's been, it's Monday.

It's been two, three days since it happened. I get it. I understand. People don't want to say the wrong thing. They don't want to seem heartless. You know, a man lost his life. Another man was shot at.

And everybody at that rally was put in danger. And they're supposed to be able to go to those rallies and say all of that stuff and do all that stuff without any threat of violence, and they're supposed to be able to do that. And not just supposed to be able to do that. I want them to be able to do that.

I want you to be safe to go to a Trump rally. I want you to be safe. I want it to be a safe thing to go to a Trump rally. I want it to be a safe thing for you to go and fly your MAGA flag and Trump and all of that stuff and all your weird, anti-American, anti-unity type of fascism stuff. This is a country where you're supposed to be able to do that. And if we fail in order,

If we're failing and making that possible, then we need to look at ourselves, right? I also want you to be able to go to Colop Posts, like you said. I want you to be able to go to Columbine High School. You know, I want you to be able to go to school in Florida. I want you to be able to go to school in Yuvaldi. I want you to be able to go to school in Baton Rouge. I want you to be able to walk to your corner store. I want you to be able to do all of those things with the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness that this country is supposed to forge you.

But what I'm telling you is we're fighting for the people. to be able to have those rights by fighting the fight that we're fighting. And by giving an inch, an inch, an inch, we emboldened the other side. An inch, an inch.

If you're listening to this right now and you are MAGA, I want you to be safe. I don't want you to lose. You have to lose. You must lose. You must. And nothing that happened on on on Saturday is going to change that for me.

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Now, we talked a little bit about Trump and his call for violence. Let's listen to some sound. We have some sound. Ashley put together some sound. If you're wondering about political violence in this country and how we got to where we are, Ashley, give him a little taste of. I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you. Knock the crap out of him, would you? Seriously.

Just knock the hell. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. 26-year-old Raqim Jones was punched in the face as he was escorted out of Donald Trump's rally last night. Yes, he deserved it. The next time we see him, we might have to kill him. Very fine people on both sides. God, get the fuck out of here.

I have a certain right problem. Stand back and stand by. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. Multiple capital injuries. You have to remember also that Donald Trump in the past has, at a La Raleigh, called, not necessarily called for, but hinted. that he would like somebody to kill Hillary Clinton. Play that audience.

Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, and if she gets to pick, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know. Second Amendment people, maybe there is. They're gun owners, so maybe they will kill Hillary Clinton. He also called for the shooting of George Floyd protesters, Ashley. What specifically was he suggesting that the U.S. military should do to these protesters? He says, can't you just shoot them? Just shoot them in the legs or something.

And he's suggesting that that's what we should do, that we should bring in the troops and shoot the protesters. The commander-in-chief was suggesting that the U.S. military shoot protesters. Yes, in the straits of our nation's capital. That's right. shocking. Yeah. So the voice that you just heard there was Mark Esper, who was Trump's own Secretary of Defense.

If we just talked about ways that Donald Trump has made violence and surrounded himself with people who think that violence should be a way to sort of deal with some of the political discourse in this country, we could do a whole podcast on that. We've talked about that over and over and over again. We've talked about Trump doxing people. and putting their identities out there, maybe in hopes that he can intimidate them

by what the crazy people on his side might do. It's happened over and over and over again. The current political violence, the current specter, should I say, of political violence that exists in this country, has been re-injected into American political discourse by Donald Trump. We've seen this.

We've seen it over and over again. we've seen it over and over and over again. We've seen this happen. We've seen these things turn violent. And that's because you've had someone who in their past hasn't had the decency to differentiate between violence, intimidation, and the intellectual assault of people, differentiate that between American political discourse that is nutritious

and good for the republic and good for freedom. And that's a fact. And it's an unfortunate fact for a lot of people who right now are listening to this that might be on the right. But Donald Trump would have been safer at his rally to speak if not for Donald Trump. That's just a fact. It doesn't mean that what happened was supposed to happen. It doesn't mean that it should have happened. Rachel, you're on mute.

It doesn't mean that it should have happened. Right, right, right. I was saying, yeah, it doesn't mean it's deserving of it. Right, right. Yeah. But we're calling a spade of spade here. I just want to say that when I watch, like, who posted that first video, Ashley, if you could say,

so people can go and watch it? I want you to watch it. It's a tweet. It's a video compilation of Trump saying these things, but it's also coupled with acts of violence. And the reason I'm saying that is because Trump doesn't just talk, as Van was just pointing out. People actually act on the.

things that he says. And you see it in that video and I had real chills as I watched it. Not because I don't know what's happened because it's just, it's wild to see. It was tweeted out by the Biden Harris head HQ. That's where you can find that on Twitter. You should watch the video. The one thing it made me think about is I said this earlier, R&C conventions today and they're announcing the vice president or he's announcing who his vice president pick is. the reason he doesn't have a vice president is because he basically called for violence against the vice president, the man who's standing with him, the man who's supposed to be his partner in crime. He literally said when people shouted hang Mike Pence on January 6th that the vice president deserved it

because he had defied efforts to overturn the presidential election, the 2020 election. He had defied his orders. He wouldn't go against the Constitution. He wouldn't do as if he was told, and he therefore deserved to die. That is why he has to pick a new vice president. Just think about that. It's just like maybe think about that as we're sitting here waiting for this to happen. I mean, look, the political violence we saw on January 6th, you know, people died that day.

Brian Siknickick died now, you know. Don't talk about enough. There's been some talk about whether or not. Sigmick was killed by the protesters or whether or not, you know, he had a couple of strokes that day. There was a medical condition that he had. So, you know, but there were protesters or rioters or insurrectionists, domestic terrorists that died that day as well. There's been a cost and that cost is being paid in blood for this political rhetoric that we've seen introduce and reintroduce into American life.

Also, on another rent, Eileen Cannon has dismissed. She dissed and dismissed it. The classified documents case against Trump, this is a shocking new development that just happened this morning. Florida judge overseeing Donald Trump's classified documents trial dismissed the case against former president this Monday

on the grounds that the appointment of and funding for special counsel Jack Smith was illegal. U.S. District Judge Eileen Cannon, a Trump nominee, said in her 93-page decision that Smith's appointment was unlawful and unconditional. The clerk is directed to close the case, the judge wrote. The decision came the first day of the RNC following the assassination attempt of Donald Trump. This is as scary as anything that's happened this weekend.

And it should be ridiculously frightening to people. I just want people to pay attention to what's going on here. This is the last chance you. you have to stop it from going completely away. And when I mean it, when I say it, I mean any semblance for free and equal and fair America, any prospect of that. Like the power grab here is going to be on all sides.

The Supreme Court is done. It's a failing entity right now. Biden should absolutely pack the court that's only chance. Now you have Trump judges that are in the, side of the federal system that are dismissing cases against the president in the wake of the assassination attempt. If you ask me, the reason why this happened this Monday and not last Monday or the Monday before that, and you guys, I can be wrong, I'm the constitutional lawyer, but there is the cover of what happened on Saturday that makes the blowback to this

a lot different than what it would have been on Monday on this past Monday. If you had done this a week before this, there would have been an uproar. This would have been the biggest thing to talk about all week. It's not now. There's cover of the attempt.

And there's also a tremendous amount of sympathy former President Trump right now. And because of that, she can get away with throwing out a perfectly good case on President Trump. And she can do it. And there's not going to be as much talk about it, the scrutiny surrounding it

as there would have been before. Now we can bring on Dr. Corbyn to talk about whether or not this has any standing, what she said, whether or not she's right or wrong. But I do know that this is something that wouldn't have happened before this assassination attempt and no one can give me off that corner.

Your stance is that this case wouldn't have been dismissed if the assassination didn't happen? That's what you're saying? I don't think she would have done it. It's a 93-page document. it had been in the works. She was going to do it.

Everybody has been about this judge because she is so pro-Trump. She has been overturned so many times by the 11th Circuit on decisions that she has made because she's not following the law.

She's doing it based on her own personal bias. This would have been her decision regardless. Last week... She wrote that bitch on Sunday. 93 pages. She pounded out 93 pages on Sunday.

Matt. He's mad. I've done it before. The National Convention has started and it's a black man singing the national anthem. A black man. John Stanford, whoever he is. Okay. Also, it's been reported that Marco Rubio is not the choice of Trump.

He will not be the VP choice. It's been reported. Okay, so we're down to two. Anyways. Who are the two? J.D. Vance reported. And is it Mark Bergam? whoever was right

Oh, Mark Bergen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He ran, he ran. I can't, I can't South Dakota. No, I don't get to run. It's going to be JD Vance. It's going to be J.D. Vance. It's going to be J.D. Vance. Of course it is.

Yeah. Okay. That's what I was saying. You back because I got rid of your theory because you know I've right. 93 pages. This was going to be her decision. She wrote that bitch on South.

But what I said last week is that you have to pay attention how these branches are working together to push a narrative. this was arguably one of the strongest cases out of the four against Trump. The D.C. case, they did not raise this legal theory that Jack Smith was illegally appointed in the D.C. case. It's a far-fetched, it's a far-fetched legal theory. They didn't put it in

this documents case, classified documents case, until conservative legal groups pushed it, right? They pushed the defense team of Trumps. Trump to assert this. And of course, Cannon being so pro-Trump, ruled in their favor. This also goes along with Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas in his concurring opinion about presidential immunity. He literally called for Jack Smith to be challenged. He said that he wrote, so he didn't, he wrote a separate opinion, concurred, wrote a separate opinion. And he said that the, um, Hold on, I want to get this right. He urged the lower courts to explore this issue.

That's Judge Cannon. And he said, in his concurring opinion to the immunity ruling to highlight another way in which this prosecution may violate our constitutional structure. He's talking about the prosecution of Trump. And that's what House Choo ruled that the appointment of Jack Smith was illegal. And it violated the Constitution in two ways. the Supreme Court justice is telling her what to do, and she did it. Will this be appealed?

Yes. Will it probably be overturned by the 11th Circuit? Yes. But then where is it going? Right up to the Supreme Court where Clarence Thomas has already said it's illegal when nobody asked him to, and that wasn't even necessary for him to write in his concurring opinion. These branches are working, well, I mean, this is all the legal system, but I'm just saying Trump being a part of the executive branch,

they're all working together to further their agenda. You have to pay attention to what is happening. Right. So that means don't take your foot off the gas and understand that while Trump was in office, one thing that he was successfully able to do

was a certain capture of the federal legal system. and appoint all of these judges and get his Supreme Court. So the reality is moving forward the only thing that is going to be on the side

of the American people to stop the total fascist takeover of this country is the vote. And you're going to have to move to vote. I'll tell you something else. The conversation about Running Biden or not running Biden.

Oh, yeah. That's over. Mm-hmm. Right. That conversation has to end right now. It was a completely valid conversation and discussion that happened. Now, this is it. Where things have gone now, the left, the party needs to be completely unified.

Mm-hmm. It is a long shot that the Democrats win in November. It's a long shot. We haven't seen any polling, but at this point, it's a long shot. There are two things that have to be done right now. One is that we have to leave nothing, no stone unturned, in terms of what happens between now and November.

the energy has to increase, the talking has to increase, the outreach has to increase, the mobilization has to increase, all of that. There can't be no let up. It has to go full board now. That's the first thing. Secondly, everyone, everyone should be preparing for a second Donald Trump presidency. And that means that they should be coalescing and understanding what type of wins they can get how they stay together, how we can organize around some of the realities that might

come along with the Trump win in 2025. And if there is a win in 2025, excuse me, a 2024 at the top, how to not let this bleed over into the House and Senate, because I'm telling you right now, if you have an activist Supreme Court, an ideologically tampered with federal justice system, and a Republican House and Senate, this country will not in any way resemble what it resembles even today. Yeah. Yeah. And that is a very real possibility. So the question that everyone right now should be asking themselves is what are you prepared to do? And there's a lot. Some of that's going to mean acting in the best interest of the outcome.

Some of our opinions and our thoughts and all of these things are going to have to be acting in the best case scenario of the outcome. Meaning, yeah, there's a lot to talk about. It's a lot to think. There's a lot to say. The question you've got to ask now is, are you helping? And I'll be the first person right now to say that while I got to call balls and strikes and tell it like I see it, that my main focus right now politically is to stop the fascist takeover in this country. And I'm willing to work and willing to move forward and willing to be who I need to be in order for that to happen.

I do because it's, we're watching the car wreck right now in slow motion. Yeah. And like, it's happening in slow motion. We're seeing it. we're seeing it. And so unity and clarity, anything else strengthens the other side. I don't know. You scared, Rachel?

Yeah. You know what I got scared? When I saw the picture and I saw the picture of Trump with that fist up and that blood on his face. That's when I got scared. Yeah, that didn't scare me. For everything it represents that. Everything that that represents, how people were going to react. Yeah.

That's when I was like, fuck. The only thing I, the only thing that I knew about that is just I knew we wouldn't take it seriously. You know, look, you know what's funny? No. I'll tell you what's funny. Because I've seen a lot of stuff, right? Like, I sometimes think that one of the best things about us as a culture is one of the worst things.

We've had to deal with so much tragedy that we just don't we don't take shit seriously. As soon as it happens, they're jokes, their memes. I saw a comedian do a set that was talking about how he was voting for

Trump. He's funny as shit. Because Trump got shot, there's all of this discussion about, oh man, Trump is the man now. Trump is 50 cent. All of that shit. I get it. I get it. I get it.

I understand it. And it definitely is funny. But our cultural power can be used to normalize things in ways that sometimes I don't think that we see. We got to get these jokes off. We do. I get it. I get it. We got to get these jokes off.

But let me give you an example. Take Arkell. Okay. Do you remember the Chappelle sketch about Arkell? Of course. I can argue that that sketch helped Arkele. Because it's lightened the situation. There's no way.

You're laughing. Now that sketch is no doubt about it, a criticism of Arkele. Right? There's no doubt about the fact that it's a criticism of Arkele. The question is, should we be joking about pissing on 14-year-old girls?

Of course not. if you laugh about it and you make jokes about it, I mean, we go laugh at things we ain't supposed to laugh at. But if you laugh about it and you make jokes about it, you normalize that as being sort of R. Kelly, that's his thing. It becomes that. This is something, you mainstream it almost, like when you do it. And a lot of the things that Trump has said,

a lot of things that Trump has done, we've made fun of them to a point and we've joked about them to a point and we've made light of them to a point to where it's diluted the seriousness of these issues. And it's not like we can't do that because it's a defense mechanism for us.

We got to do it. But we have to talk about it. Sure. And we have to discuss it. It's all funny. It's all jokes. It's all games. Until it's not.

Right. I mean, you have certain things shouldn't be joked about. I understand laughing through pain or laughing because that has been our way to cope and deal. But is it really coping? Is it really coping if you're not getting, if you're just laughing your way through it and not getting to the actual issue of how it's making you feel? Like it's really not a co- We keep saying it's coping,

but it's really not. It's a temporary band-aid on the issue or how we're feeling. Let's be, come on, we both do therapy. We know that. You can only laugh for so long before it starts to really break you down. So I'm just saying I get it.

And y'all know I love me a joke. I love these jokes. I do. But there has to be a circle of this where we have open and honest discussions about the seriousness of the condition of our life in this country and what this means. And once again, if in fact this is the way that it goes, we got to be ready. Can't nothing sneak up on you.

Some of this other stuff has. They, in silent, took aim at Roe for over 50 years and they got what they wanted. This could be the Empire Strikes Back version of our story. Now, you know, I don't know anything about that. Empire Strikes Back ended on a bad note. It ended with Han and the carbon dating, carbonite, carbon dating. He was encased in carbonite. So Han Solo was, he had a bounty on his head.

Hon Solo and Luke Skywalker, the same person. Get out of here. Han Solo, you know that that's not true. You've already discussed it. No, shut out. I get confused. Han Solo was encased in Carponite. Who is Harris?

He's Han Solo, yeah. Well, then who is Luke Skywalker? That's Mark Hamill. That's Darth Vader's son. We've already talked about this before. I'm sorry. So Luke had lost his hand. You know, they had been Landau, Calerzian.

I'll call him Landau. Lando Calerzian had betrayed our friends. And the empire had won. The empire had won. It was the end. But there was a plan. Luke had a plan. Leah had been taken by Jabba.

Luke had a plan. There was a plan. We have to go get our friends. It was a plan. And then in return of the Jedi, at the end, figured it out. Now, the first order ended up coming back and whatever.

But what I'm saying is it was, it ended on a bad note. We might be in our Empire Strikes Back era. We might have Luke with his hand cut off. We might have Han and Carbonite. Okay, thank you. Sorry to fight it for me. Thank you.

Yeah. I was confused because you said Luke lost his hand. I was like, did he lose pawn for his hand? No, Luke got his hand cut off by his dad. You did say that? You said he lost hand. I thought, did he mean Han? I said that.

And then you said, what did he? But even in this moment, we have to exude strength. Because this is the low right here. This is the low. You got to get on your shit. Everybody. You can't tell me right now that you don't care about politics. You can't tell me that.

I'm not accepting that from you. I don't give a fuck who it is. I'm not accepting. I'm not accepting right now that you don't care about politics. I'm not accepting. All right. That's where I get annoyed. Sorry, that's part of my annoyance. I know a lot of people who have no idea what's happening. I mean, obviously they know about the assassination attempt. But they really don't care because they have the privilege not to. Whether it's how they look or the way they're set up in this life, I have a bunch of friends who are like, man, that's terrible. And have, do not, do not care enough or realize how much this is impacting the country that they live in. They don't. And they need to. Maybe I need new friends. All right.

No, you don't, man. You care about Caitlin Clark going to the Olympic team? No, I don't want to talk about anything else. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I thought about it. I was like, man, are we moving on?

No, we can't. This has got to be it. We cannot make a hard switch to Kayla Clark at the Olympics. Like, save it. Yeah. All right. I can't even, I can't even wrap my mind around. that.

All right. Guys, this was the whole show today. And it deserved to be. I believe in y'all. I do. I believe in you guys. I believe in you. We can do anything if we're motivated

and together. So we have to be both right now. Is this this as bad as it gets? Yeah. when we regroup on Thursday, which will be in person. In person, yeah.

We'll cover the RNC. We'll cover, we'll see how the Dems pivot from this. Yeah, for sure. We'll see what happens. We'll see. I'm sure more things are going to come out in the next few days.

So, yeah. Definitely. But we won't do a whole show on it. This is it. We will not dedicate Thursday. to a whole show on this. All right, guys. Take the thing cap.

You know what? Do whatever you fuck you want to do with your caps. But tighten that motherfuckers up and let's get ready to go. Nah, don't take that motherfucker off. Keep that bitch on. Keep the fucking cap on. Tighten the cap up. They put a little piece of tin for it under there.

I don't know. I'm Van Lake of June. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye guys.