Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Cult of Kanye and Isabelle Khurshudyan on the War in Ukraine

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to Kanye West’s latest online activity, including his threats to D.L. Hughley (18:56), before discussing ‘The Power of the Dog’ director Jane Campion’s trending weekend (32:52). Plus, Washington Post foreign correspondent Isabelle Khurshudyan joins from Odessa, Ukraine, to give us an update on where things stand in the Russia-Ukraine war (44:16). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Isabelle Khurshudyan Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? I learned is on. It is I, Van Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel. What? You don't buy the premium internet package when you go to hotel.

I'm frugal. It's $10. But you know what? I bought internet on the flight so I could say, yeah, so I could be in contact with what's going on. so I could prep for the podcast. I don't need to pay for premium internet when I'm not going to be in this hotel all day, every day. I'm frugal.

I'm a tourist. The internet on the flights is so sometimey. I have a question. Do you know how to like, let's say, okay, and maybe Donnie or one of the thought warriors can... Are we just going to exclude Trudy? Drag him, Rachel. Trudy might know.

I don't know. True. Donnie is our tech guy. Trudy's our, our toxic. Stop. You could have said it's so nice and relationship guru. Guru. I got you. Guru.

Like I'm a resident real nigga of the show. Let me ask you a question. What? Trudy, you said guru. Okay. What rap group was the rapper guru in? I don't know. Sad.

Don't be trying to drag me. Don't be coming from me this early. Give us a multiple choice. Okay, give you a multiple choice. Okay, give you a multiple choice. Guru, gifted, unlimited, rhymes universal. What's this guy's name? All right, these are the three choices.

De la soul. Okay. A tribe called quest, gang star. Those are the three choices. Wait, say the three choices again. De La Soul No A tribe called Quest

Okay not that one Gangstar The process of elimination tells me gang star Okay now here's the thing about that It's definitely gang star On my side Okay

So my thing is How could you not know Who Guru is when he's from Massachusetts He's literally the only Ill rapper that you guys guys have really. Wait a minute. What's his name?

What's, uh, old boy from West, from Worcester. He from Massachusetts? Who's from, talking about, uh,

Joyner Lucas. Yes, boom, right there. Jonah Lucas, yeah, Jordan Lucas, um,

and we got, um, and we got, I mean, Jonah, Jonah Lucas, John Lucas counts. I'm sorry for Jordan Lucas, but he's not on

guru's level quite yet. He's not on guru's level yet. Guru's legend. Whatever you don't know. Good job, Trudy on the multiple choice. Okay. I would have gotten that wrong.

I gave you it so easy. I would have gotten it wrong. It's so easy. Yeah. Perhaps I do. Yeah, whatever. So the actual question, do you guys, do you guys know how to,

when you're on, let's say that you're on a like a flight and then the internet pops up, right? But you don't use that little website that pops up for the internet, right? You do it wrong. and then you're connected to the internet but you haven't gone through the website

so the internet won't work. Okay. How do you start it all over again? Start the process over again so you can get back to the page where the little website pops up so that you can get on the internet because it'll show that you're on the internet

but you won't be connected to the internet because you didn't go through the website but you can't get the website to repop up because every time you log back in it says that you're already on the internet. What do you do? Do people know even when I'm talking about? So you're meaning the blue that's highlighted that you have Wi-Fi. You're not really on the internet.

It's just highlighted. Right. So you have to go back to the original website, which you can find in your card in the back of the seat or the seat that's in front of you that you're looking at. You can go back to it. Or if you, like I flew United out here, you have to go through the app. You have to go download the app to get it. Right. Sometimes it won't let you when you go back to the website.

it won't pop up. It won't pop up. What are you flying? Yeah. That sounds like a personal problem. I'm flying Delta. I'm flying. I'm flying.

If you're going to do our noise, do it right. Do y'all get a cut from Delta Airlines? No. Is that a partnership? Don't get a cut. So you mean to tell me, see, this is why the AKA's got the one up on you. Oh, because what? They get a cut from something?

No. But in all of this year, that there's been an actual Delta airlines. None of the deltas have figured out a way to do like a Delta's fly at a discount during the sisterhood week. I know. But still, though, it seems like they would have been at some point, maybe if you guys had somebody in the Oval Office,

you guys, that's the kind of thing you guys could do. I almost said something. Because Carl was doing so much. Oh, wow. That's the least you could do, right? It's giving a nigger a free flight. We ain't seen her in two years. I guess I don't understand why you don't get the premium internet.

I'm done with you on this. I'm not even going to entertain this. I'm not, I am in the hotel just really for this moment to do the podcast. I'm in the hotel to have better service because I had bad service the last time I was at my grandmother's house. We've been podcasting for a few minutes and everything seems to be just fine. Again, proving why I don't need the premium service. Yeah. So he's really upset, y'all.

He's really, he's really, he's really bothered. It's like, it's not that I'm upset. It's just that that's one of now, see, what happens to me is that now I wonder if I'm doing it wrong. You are. Because one of the first things I do when I'm in a hotel is, they go, it's like one of those little things you treat yourself. Do you want the faster internet? Yeah, baby.

Boom. And now all of a sudden, you're zipping around through cyberspace. Zip, zip, zip. Do you find that televisions and hotels work poorly? No, mine is working just fine now. Let me tell you why. I have a theory. Would you like to know why?

I don't think I have a choice. Okay. So this is why the television in your hotel because you're in Houston. I'm in Houston, yeah. Okay, I think televisions, okay, in places like Vegas, in places like Miami, sometimes even in New York, I think they make the hotel TVs purposefully and on vacation and like Turks when we went there as well, I think they make the hotel TVs purposefully difficult to operate because they want you to leave the hotel and take part in the economy of the place. When you go to Vegas, right, your hotel TV is whack. Is it?

It's stupid. It's got weird channels. It always like tics. It does. It has weird channels. Like one day I met, I met the Vodara in Vegas and I'm just trying to watch a game. They don't want you to watch the game there. They want you to go downstairs to the hotel bar and watch the game.

They don't want you watching in the room. I can't find the fucking game. And I put it on the ESPN channel and they got like a Vegas car show on there. I'm like, yo, what channel is the game on? I called down to the front office. They go the game. The game is on ESPN. But you know, we're showing the game at the bar.

I don't care. I won't go to the bar. I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks. I'm going to test this theory out. Watch. It's not going to work right. But I honestly don't turn the TV on, really, except to go to sleep in a Vegas. You know what I mean?

I'm out in about. Now, I will confirm New York is bad. I will confirm New York has bad television. That is true. It's not work. TVs don't work. And when you turn on your TV in New York and you're watching the local New York broadcast, there's always some weird shit going on in New York.

You know, you always put that's true too. You always put two and two together. See, I turn on the TV in New York. I'm like, oh, I have that signal. Must be the section of the hotel I am. You instead are like, you know what? the last time I was here, this happened, this happened. You put it all together.

I don't. I ask for a different room. Because I get, I get like suspicious. Like I called out, it doesn't matter what you do in the Vegas hotel room, right? Whatever you do there, they try to make it, whatever's going wrong, they try to make it better. Sure. You can literally call them up and be like, yo, the bed is a little too hard or too soft. They'll go, okay, we'll upgrade you.

penthouse room come down right now like they don't want it's so competitive there but if you talk shit about the TV they don't do that they say come down to the hotel bar and watch the TV they want you to buy drinks they don't want you in that room baby what's the best hotel in Vegas that's tough that's tough baddar is for you right badar for me I mean I like the encore at the win I like cosmopolitan because it's right in the center. They have good restaurants too. It just depends what you like to do and where you like to be.

I've never really had a bad hotel experience. I really used to like Aria and Cosmo. Those were my- Arria is great. Now it's too crowded. It's too crowded. Can I give you my-da-ever give you my theory on the Cosmopolitan, Las Vegas? Go ahead.

And I think that the hotel is hell. and the devil runs it. Why? Okay. So look. Have you... Have you... Have you stayed there?

Have you stayed there? No. Okay. So you've never stayed in the hotel. But you're going to come... Okay. Go ahead. I've stayed several times.

Okay. So this is why. See? You didn't get that quick in it. Because you ain't in your word like you should be. All of Vegas is hell. So, but look. So you come from Fadara, right?

You got to walk out to the strip. You got to go through Cosmo. Basically, you got to walk through the whole Cosmo to get out to the strip. There's a demon on the Cosmopolitan. It's always like, it's always dark. It's always, yes, it is. Yes, it is. It's always dark.

It's always like people in there going nuts. Even more than other hotels, people going nuts in the Cosmo. It looks, it's one of those places that looks super, it looks like hell, I would think hell to look. It looks like super nice, but super fake. Just fake enough to get you in there to spend all your money and do all your shit. It's like a, the Cosmo to me is like a, it's like a lust trap. And I'm telling you, the hotel, they got that big, weird indoor pool. They got an indoor pool, like a big indoor day pool.

Like, you go to the Cosmo. in January, the day pool is popping because it's indoors. Think about it. Indoor pool. Day party. Smelling like farts. And, like, it's just like, it's...

You sound like you got caught up in the Cosmo, which is why you call it. I don't. But I had these weird thoughts as I was sitting in my room. I'm like, maybe the Cosmo's hell. Maybe if you go to the top level of Cosmo, it's like Al Pacino from the Devil's Advocate or something up there. It's just got a demon on it.

And everybody, you never see like really beautiful people in the cosmos. You are probably the most beautiful person that's ever been in the cosmos before. Like, the people that you see in the cosmos, they look slightly attractive, but their souls are haggard. Dan, it's true. You dream this. This is, y'all, the cosmopolitan is a lovely place. It's one of my favorite places to stay. But you know what?

Wow. But I haven't been in a long time. I went when it first opened. I used to go all the time. Now I stay toward the end of the strip. This is what happens when you get older. You start going towards the end of the strip. You know, the Phoenicians, the Palazzo, the Wynn or at the encore, resort world.

The M Hotel. That's where you go. Right. See, I never stay. I like to stay in the middle. I like to stay right there in the middle. The city center is my jam, baby. Yeah.

In hell. The Mandarin Oriental, Vodara, Aria. that little area right there They got the little tram that comes Vegas is nuts I love Vegas I haven't been in so long So what did you do this weekend Besides um

Besides travel Oh you're frozen Am I frozen? Is that me? Am I frozen? Hello? No, Vand stop. My internet's not bad

You try to make me frozen. Stop. Oh no, it just said Your internet connection is unstable I know Okay. What did I do this weekend? Oh, what did I do this? I honestly have no idea what I did this weekend. Yeah. Van, I'm sorry, what did you do this weekend? You know what we didn't do is game night. That I know. I'm upset. We didn't have game night because the midnight boys flaked. They didn't flake, but they said they had to be someplace. I had a couple of midnight boys. They said, oh, we got to be someplace 8, 830. I felt like a father whose sons chose. to like go hang out with their friends

instead of hang out with dad. It was very upsetting. And so I was like, fucking game nights canceled. You know? Yeah. We didn't get any notification. Oh,

oh, okay, I'll tell you exactly what I did. This is why I can't remember my weekend. Friday we went on a date night to this great place called Ella. It's at the bottom of the 60 hotel, Beverly Hills. Oh, 60 hotels great.

That used to be a place called Caulfields, but they changed it. So, you know, I'm a picky eater. We all know this. So I always get nervous trying out new restaurants. The food was incredible. They had this bread with this honey truffle butter. It was like truffle butter.

And in the middle it was honey. And it would slide and melt into the butter. Oh my gosh. It was so bad. You got to go to it. That's it. Oh. That was it.

That was it. Then I got the booster shot also on Friday. Wait a minute. I thought you were about to go to another piece of food. I'm done with the food. You want me to control? Everybody, everybody listen to this. It's like, you got the butter and all it is.

And then you're like, and then I got the, I just know you about to talk about a big hunk of pork or something like that. Like, then I got the, and then I got the booster shot. I'm like, what? Okay. Let me finish with the food. I had the charred, charred. charred Brussels sprouts.

So good. And let me tell you, they had pomegranate and I'm a big believer in separating the fruit from the vegetable. But it was exactly what the Brussels sprouts needed. They were charred to perfection. Then I had

like these duck, duck wings. They were fried but they were glazed with I don't know what was, yeah, yes, darkly duck. I ate him. He was delicious. And then I had the brand zino. Brian had a stay.

It was good. Y'all, it was so, I can't. I just go to Ella. Go to Ella. Ask for Austin. Then I got the booster. Right. Took me out.

Took me out. I'll be honest with you. I haven't gotten boosted. Well, I'll tell you why I got boosted. And this is not, this is, you know, I'm a believer in the vaccine and all that. Because I had COVID, I'm still within that 90 days. So I'm like, I don't need to be boosted. I should be able to show a letter this.

and I had COVID within the last 90 days. To work these red carpets, I have to be boosted. So I can't work the Oscars unless I'm boosted. I can't work the Grammys unless I'm boosted. Now, my job isn't making me do it, but I want to work these things. So I got boosted. Didn't take me out like the second shot did, but I had a low-grade fever. My body was hurting.

So. Body hurt. Yeah. One day we're going to have a conversation on this podcast about how I feel about all the stuff that we did and then we still got sick you know and I'm not

you guys hold on I'm not I'm not I'm not changing my tune but I do feel like there is a real conversation to be had about the fact that motherfuckers didn't really know what they were talking about that what we got about the vaccines is largely true that the most important thing that they did

was they prevented serious illness and death and they really did a good job and everybody which is what they promised to do. They didn't promise you wouldn't get sick. Nobody said you weren't going to get sick from the vaccine. There was some promising about not getting sick. There was some talk about. I don't ever remember somebody saying you're not going to get sick from the vaccine.

There was some that they, but there were some talk about it being able to slow down transmission and some other things like that that turned out to be bullshit. Would we ever know that though? Okay, I know we're not having this discussion, but would you ever really know if it's slow transmission? The only way to test that is to not, you know, we don't know what the world would have been like

if there was no vaccine. You don't know. Bottom line, everybody get vaccinated. Keep you out the hospital, keep you from going to the sweet by and by. But there are Americans out there who are frustrated and I can't. And you're one of them.

And you're one of them. No, no, no, baby. I'm just a red-blooded American man. All right, we got to take a break. Come back with the big deal of the day. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trim Faya. Tap this ad to learn more of. about Tramaya, including important safety information. Okay. The big deal of the day yesterday. By the way, I did not read it. I did not pick this topic.

Donnie, jump on. What's up? Donnie. Who chose the big deal of the day today? Kanye West did. Shut up, Donnie. Get off the podcast. Yes, the big deal of the day is,

the fucking bizarre Sunday that was in the life of Kanye West, Pete Davidson, Kim Kardashian, and D.L. Hughley. Kanye West got at D.L. Hughley yesterday for saying that Kanye West is stalking Kim Kardashian. All right. Now, I don't know if you guys heard what D.L. Hughley said when he was on Vlad TV.

But Vlad asked D.L. Hughley about what was going on with Kanye West and Kim Kardashian. Fashion and D.L. said this. I think that I've watched too many times when things like that happen and a woman or somebody's not believed and then things escalate. Yeah. He is stalking her. You could think it's cute. If it was my daughter, I'd do something about it.

I don't think it's funny. I think that you can't write a beat so good that you get to do these things. And society laughs it off because they said, well, she showed her ass all the time and he's this and he's that. is that at a certain point, it is not unusual for men like that. The difference between him and the restraining order is about 20 hits and a couple of hundred million dollars. All right. So the reality here is that D.L. Hugley said what a lot of people thought, what were thinking at that time. Do you disagree with that, Rachel Lindsay?

Do I disagree with D.L. Hugley? No. I mean, we talked about it before. I called it psych. It's psychological abuse. Right. what he's doing to her. And it is stalking. And I'm glad the D.L. Hughley is saying it. More people need to speak out about it. He's right.

We ignore stuff. We write it off to this or that because of who he is. But if this was someone else, we'd be calling it exactly what it is. And I totally forgot that he bought a house across street from her. And at the time, it might not have seen, because that was a while back, at the time, it might not have seen what it is now because it's like, oh, this is a father who wants to be close to his children. But now you have to couple it with all the other things that he is doing, antagonizing her, harassing her, threatening her, and her significant other. Now you've got to say that this is, it's gone to a higher level.

And I hate talking about it, not because we talk about Kanye so much. It's nothing about that. It just, a part of it feels so wrong to be so involved with somebody's personal and family business. And I know Kanye's involved. us by putting it out there in the public. But don't you feel a little dirty that we, that like, oh, you know, oh, you know. Who are you talking to right now? Don't you feel a little dirty talking about like constantly?

And I know we have to. It should be the big deal of the day because it's out there. Kanye West woke up on a Sunday and decided to once again put us all up in his at Kim and the children and the family's business. but it just feels so icky. I don't know. So you're not wrong. See, this is the thing.

You haven't had your soul defiled by a celebrity news operation. You guys are like the fucking Merlot of celebrity news. We was the ripple. So once you drank ripple for nine years, it don't taste like nothing bad. You're like, oh, shit, bring on the ripple, baby. But there's a deal. This is why I think that I'll tell you why this topic matters as the big deal of the day, right? To me personally.

Okay. So there are a couple of different things here. Number one, Kanye West says to D.L. Hugley, he says, D.L. Hugley is upon. Yeah, I know a keen not supposed to address upon, but I address everything. And I find addresses, D.L. So don't speak on me or my children. I can afford to hurt you. It's a direct threat.

Okay. D.L. Hugley took it as a direct threat. I spoke to D.L. Hugley on the phone yesterday morning. What do you say? He said he is taking this as a direct threat to his family safety and another post that Kanye West made about D.L. being a drug addict to his career. So D.L. Hugley feels like, rightfully so, that he was both professionally slandered and personally threatened, not just him, but his family as well.

He's right. He says he's going to address both situations as so. This is why I think this is interesting to talk about. It's interesting because this is so obviously wrong, everything that's happening. So let's forget about the part of this to where you might see Kanye West as having a point. And I'll just speak to that point. I see people in comments and I see people say, hey, this is just a man that wants to be around his children. Hey, this is just a man that wants his family.

This is just a man fighting for his family. the reason why that fascinates me is because it seems as if the black family is so fractured that these people are saying that anything you do is kosher if it's under the guise of fighting for your family. And my question is like how far does that go? Like we've seen what Kanye West has done and it doesn't seem to me that any reasonable person would say that he's not acting erratically. But when you say that, the cult of Kanye gets so offended that whether than legislate the actual circumstances and situations that we're going through, you now have to legislate whether or not you care about black families, whether or not you care about black fathers.

And I think the ability of a celebrity to take a cause and a real issue in the community and mascot it for their bad behavior is. something worth talking about. Because we're seeing this more often all over the place. We're seeing people under the guise of financial freedom, under the guise of unity and group operations, do all of these things that are really quite self-serving. But to me, seem to be leading people astray. I guess my question is, whether you're a yay fan or not, how can there be this much back and forth about the way he's acting right now. Like, so let's say that deal, let's say that everything that D.L. hugely said about Kanye West was fucked up and D.L. had no, no business saying that he should have minded

his business. Let's just say, let's just play devil's advocate, right? Yeah. The D.L.'s been making jokes about Kanye or whatever, whatever. So then as a community, we're saying an appropriate answer to that is to say I can get your address and have somebody come hurt you. I mean, yeah. Well, I mean, like, what a hell? You know what I'm saying? You know what it is?

They don't take him seriously. Okay. I think people, and this is, and I'm not, I already said my stance on it, but for the people who want to praise instill the cult of Kanye, as you called them, I don't think they take him seriously. oh, that's just Kanye talking.

Oh, that's just Kanye doing stuff for attention. But at the end of the day, this is a man who really wants to see his children. And you have to also look at it this way. It's the cult of Kanye also coupled with people just totally disliking the Kardashians and anything that they represent. So you got to bring that in there, too. People don't want to see the Kardashians when. And I'm not going to lie, when you watch some of the videos of Kanye talking that academics,

posted. That's where I saw it on his page. And he's saying all the times he's been denied of being able to be a father to his children. And he makes this plea about all I want to do is have my children come to church. All I want to do is support my children at their games and take them to things that interests them. He sounds like a father who's just trying so hard and he's gaining sympathy in the court of public opinion by making this plea and giving these examples of how Kim has stopped him from seeing his children. That is how I think what I think plays into that cult of Kanye. That is what I think plays into that belief of the Kardashians are evil and, you know, like they're trying to take black men down. That's what I think he does so well. And I think that's why he's able to dupe so

many people. They don't take him seriously with the threats because he's yet to act out on any of them, not against Pete, not against D.L. And not against anybody else. Not saying that he won't do it, but that's why I think he's able to win people over because he hasn't done that yet. And he plays into, oh, that's just kind of being erratic. Do you know what I mean? This is just me being devil's advocate. I can see why people who literally worship him can look at it at a totally different way. Right.

But my point is this is the reason why we need to really have some conversations to get a lot of these issues in the community under control or at least get some understanding on them because now, and this is parallel to a whole person. Trump's situation, right? So let me look at the inverse, excuse me, the other side of President Trump's ascension, right? And Nome Chomsky said this. So while Barack Obama was president and while the left was having this sort of renaissance in the early 2010s, right, the late 2000s, early 2010s, there was a belief that places that you fly over would just simply never matter again, right? That we had moved to the sensibilities of new.

York, L.A., you know, Seattle, places like that, and that the places in the middle were going to be, I guess, incrementally marginalized by the growth of this, of our experience, of leftist liberal thought, and then they would no longer matter and then we would rule the country in perpetuity. Well, the only problem was that our inability to actually have conversations with them, not the ones that are racist and homophobic or whatever, but the people that are just on the other side of the aisle of us, our ability, our inability to actually connect with them. When people say leftist elitist, they're not totally lying.

Like there were a group of people that we said, hey, we're leaving you behind, catch up. But when you share a community with someone, you can't really do that. You have to at least make the, you have to at least make the, you have to at least make the, attempt to talk to them. I remember Obama's saying that people in places they, they clutch God and guns and they do all of these things because they're not doing whatever it is they need to do to move their communities forward. I understand what he means, but what I'm saying is you can't put those people in a box because then the person who opens the box for them isn't just a leader. He's a hero. He's a God. He's freed them. So when Donald Trump came along, like,

it's not it wasn't our fault but we did not really see a guy like that coming who would talk directly to those people to their biases and to a lot of their life experiences and he was able to be empowered by them and now they're a demon they're golem they're all of these things so what i'm saying is if people in any community do not get their shit together and don't have the conversations that they need to have in order to sort of understand these things that don't push each other, then there will be, especially in the day and time that we live in now, someone that can come along and pervert actual real valuable discourse for their own personal gain. And whether or not Ye is doing that on purpose, whether or not he's doing it like intentionally,

that's what he's doing. There are a lot of brothers that are going, hey, I want to see my kids. I want to do all of this stuff. I want to do all of this stuff. There are a lot of women who are on the other side of feeling this is how my baby daddy acts. This is what's going on. And we haven't really reconciled those situations in our community as much as we should. And now this guy is weaponizing this and we can't even see our way through it to be able to have a conversation about it because everybody's already dug in.

Like you can't have a conversation about this guy. You can't talk about it. Sorry. For the first time. ever. Van, I almost caught the Holy Spirit. You were really preaching just now. Oh, whatever. Everything you said, what? Remove that's something. No. I literally was like, oh, Van is really preaching. No, I'm not making fun of you.

Everything you said was so legit, the comparison that you made with Trump and his people. I was really like, you better go ahead. I thought. I was in the pulpit. Trudy-Dotty, I'm not lying. He was preaching. Preaching. Did you watch? Did you watch the Critic Choice Awards last night?

No. What is it? You watch it? No, I guess I should have. It's part of my job, isn't it? I'm on vacation. I did not watch it. I did not watch it.

I caught their recaps. Okay, I'll give you guys a little background on something that happened. So Jane Campion, fantastic director of a movie called, Power of the Doll. which I liked, but I didn't really love like everybody else did. It was, yeah, you could have cut an hour out of it, to be honest. It's good.

I mean, it's good. It is good. It's one of those ones where I'm like, she was a hero at the end of last week because Sam Elliott, who my mom loves, and she's very disappointed about this, went on Mark Mairn's podcast and said that the power of dog movie was a piece of shit. Did he say it like that?

He said it was a piece of shit And he said it had illusions of homosexuality Jane Campion came back And said, hey, he's acting like a bitch He's a cop he's an actor and not a cowboy Everybody was like, yeah, that's great You know, come here and talk about it First of all, first of all

Can I say something about the cowboys real quick? I just want everybody that romanticizes The American West to know You don't think the cowboys were having sex with each other, Rachel? Yeah, out there What does she say? She goes, there was a lot of room on the range. And I love the way she phrased that.

Yes, this is the first time we've seen a cowboy movie that had homosexuality in it. Yes. Oh, that's not true. I said, this is not the first time. Oh, not the first time. I was about to say. Yes, I know.

Yeah, broke back. Jesus Christ. But, yes, of course they did. Of course they did. You know, it's like, That's what the funny thing was about, not the funny thing, that's what the thing about Broback Mountain was. It was like they're on the rage, on the Ponderosa.

And, you know, they don't have no PlayStation, though Sega Genesis or nothing like that. So they just look at each other. Hey, hey, Slim. Hey, Dakota Slim. What we're going to do? We ain't got no. Come over here and jerk me off.

Okay. So whatever. So yeah. It's like, nobody. Shut up, Sam Elliott. It was just an odd thing. And then he was mad that it was done in New Zealand and not and it pretended to be in Montana. Like he really was upset about a lot of different things with that.

It was just an odd take from old Sam Elliott. So Jane Campion. And let me just say that. Not just odd. It was wrong. Jane Campion jumps out there, puts him in his place. Strike one for the progressives of America. She's up, 3-1.

She's winning the series of being dope. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Then Power of the Dog wins a Critics Choice Award. And Jane Campion has to give a speech. This is Jane Campion's speech from the Critics Choice Awards. Give my love out to my fellow fellow, fellow, the guys. The nominees.

And, you know, Serena and Venus, you are. such marvels. However, you do not play against the guys. Like, I have to. Oh, come on, man. Anybody, nigger, the nigger ask you. Did a nigger ask, come on, Jane. You white woman did.

She white woman did. You white woman did. Did the nigger ask you to speak on Venus and Serena? Is that what we doing? Rachel, you're the woman at the house. What are you doing? there's so many things. First of all, in the entire speech, let me just say that do I think that Jane had any ill intent? No. But I think that's what makes it worse. She didn't even realize

how wrong she was and how, what's the word that I'm looking for? How disrespectful she was to Venus and Serena and just everything that they've accomplished. accomplished. She didn't get it. And I think that that's the way you have to look at this whole thing. Don't say, oh, my gosh, she didn't mean it. She wasn't trying to do that. That's the problem. So she get, if you hear the speech in its entirety, entirety, she talks about tennis before she makes the comment to Venus, about Venus and Serena. So she's trying to bring this whole thing full circle and she's trying to have a funny moment. She talks about playing tennis and she wants Will Smith to teach her tennis, but she used to play tennis and she got this tennis elbow and she can't play anymore.

So she tries to bring it back with Venus and Serena. And she failed. I just don't understand people who feel like they have to put somebody down to build themselves up. And in this instance, it once again shows that Jane is first white, then a woman. That's exactly what Why you're looking like that? That's exactly Because I'm into it.

I'm picking up what you're putting down. But that's exactly what she did in this moment. Rather than just accepting this on behalf of women, saying that, you know, she's had to break down barriers, being a female director in a male dominated industry, she's overcome these challenges.

She could have left it there. She could have been proud of her accomplishment and what she did. And the only woman, nominated, I believe only female director nominated in that category. It's a huge accomplishment. But why did you have to bring Venus and Serena into this?

You could have made your point without putting them down. And the fact that you didn't realize that you were disrespectful to them, but then their accomplishments as black women shows that we still have such a long way to go when we're talking about race relations and lifting each other up and all coming together as one. She didn't get it. She didn't get it. She totally.

And if you don't believe it, look at Venus's face. But can I say this? Serena, I'm confused as to why she was clapping so hard. Can somebody explain that to me? Can you explain that to me? Venus was confused. Serena was cheering and clapping hard. Was she just trying to let the moment pass?

Well, first of all, we should say that everybody at the Netflix party after this happened was all friends and dancing and happened. So I guess they talked about it or whatever. Venus and Serena are probably not as upset about this as we are. And I'll tell you why. Go ahead. I call it. I call it a blue check blazee.

Okay. Everything has a name. I'm trying to call it. Okay. So we're both blue checks, but we're not blue checks. You know what I mean? I was talking to a friend of mine. They were telling me how they went to the off-white fashion show in Paris or whatever.

And I was like, it was them in the picture with Idriselba and all these other people. And I was saying, hey, I'm at that point in my career where I know everybody in this picture, but I'm still not in the picture. And I'm very far from being in the picture. So I'm not one of y'all. I'm not one of y'all. You know what I mean? We're not.

You might be. You hang out with Ellen Papaya. No, I'm not. But I'm not. But I'm not one of y'all. there is an understanding when you get there that like they make up and get over shit faster than we do

because they're watching each other's backs all in a certain crowd. So if Serena was chronic... That's problematic. I said this, but I've said this on the podcast before. Go look at your favorite problematic celebrity on Instagram and look at the responses from the people with blue checks as it

like versus the people who are just the people who are just in there in the comments they keep it fucking real the blue checks are oh man we support you keep doing what you doing because there's a little club this is all fucked up

and it also goes back to my whole allies thing you guys are you guys are stuck on these allies you're stuck on them Jane Campion I'm sure is a great person but as soon as you step back and give them the

light, give them the light like Shauna Paul. When they get in that light, they start looking funny in it. That's, what the, why you're speaking on them? Get your war, go to fuck home. I ain't nobody asked you to contextualize how hard it was for Venus and Serena.

Phoenix and Serena to beat women, to beat dogs, to beat puppies, to beat whoever had to go through shit that you never had to go through. So, let's get the award. Yeah. We appreciate you, James. we love you.

You're phenomenally talented. Get the award. Talk your shit and leave the black women out of it. That's all we're asking. They always want to kick the black women in the ass. Forget the blue check mark. It's funny and I know you're right when you say it. But it's so problematic at the same time.

So we're just going to continue to like protect these, protect people. And I guess and this is why we'll never be in that picture. This is your name. We ain't never going to be in those pictures. Because I just feel like if I was a part of this circle, I would be, if I was at that party, I would not be in a picture with her or kicking it up with her. If I hadn't pulled her to the side and said,

hey, this is what you said. This is why it offended me. This is why it's wrong. You should come out and say something because I do, you know, like you're great at what you do. You've accomplished so much. But at the same time, you can't stand in this. and then also step in this.

Do you know what? Like I would be... Absolutely. I would be pulling her to the side to say that. Like, Jane, you got to make this right. You got to explain yourself a little bit. It's not playing into the social media frenzy of it. It's about being right.

You can't stand for this. And then not do this on the other hand. I don't know. So it's not that you're not going to be in one picture. It's that you're not going to be in the next one. So you'd be in the first one. But then after you go up there, you say that to Jane Campion,

They like a, no, she's sued. No. She's not going to sue kitchen. Your name made on the list. Yeah. She's not about to sue. Isn't, Jane Campi is like, isn't that the young lady? That's soup kitchen, the nice man.

Let's take a break. We told you that we would be visiting Ukraine again and giving you more information on not just the current situation in Ukraine, but also about what things might end the war in Ukraine. We are going to do that today with Washington Post correspondent, Isabel Kershutian, on the other side of this break. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Cream. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies.

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Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum. business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Okay. So we promise you guys we give you an update and sort of fill you in on some of the issues and not some of the issues or the happenings in Ukraine right now to kind of let you know where things are to kind of supplement some of the things that you're getting in the

mainstream news. We have somebody on the pocket. today who is uniquely qualified to do that. She is a foreign correspondent for the Washington Post based in Moscow currently in Odessa, Ukraine. Wow. Isabel Khrushudian joins us today on Higher Learning. How are you, Isabel? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. Okay. First question. Where are things right now. I think everyone was on fire. It was in the general zeitgeist of popular culture when the invasion first took place. But as far as where things stand right now, politically on the ground, as far as humanitarian aid and as far as people's lives are concerned, what is the condition

right now in Ukraine? Yeah, it's a mix. You know, you've, you've, You've got places where, I would say the advance of the Russian troops has stalled, places where the Ukrainian military is putting up a better than expected fight. And then you have cities that have been absolutely leveled, destroyed. We don't even have a good understanding of how many civilian casualties there are because there's so much bombardment there that aid workers, human beings, humanitarian volunteers, anything, can't get in. You have a massive refugee crisis where over a million people have already, you know,

left Ukraine and gone into Europe, crossing the border into Poland, Romania, Moldova, other places. And, you know, politically, you have a Russian economy that has been absolutely devastated from the sanctions. and is looking more isolated than ever. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, none of these things work in Russia right now. Facebook was just declared an extremist organization, which would level, like, equate them to ISIS and Al-Qaeda in Russia.

So, I mean, the consequences, the repercussions of this, I think are incredible as far as scale. You know, just speaking personally, I lived in Moscow before this started. I came to Ukraine January 23rd. I think my entire life in Moscow was banished in this time to the point where, like, I don't think I'll be able to go back. So, I mean, that's just how quickly things have changed and how, I guess, enormous all of this is.

And, you know, obviously the U.S. is heavily involved in that. from the sanction side to providing Ukraine with weapons, which they're still doing. You talk about enormous, and I know that one of the things that is really being discussed is China. How likely is it that China will become involved with this war? And if they do, what does that mean for the United States? Yeah, so my colleagues at the Washington Post and, you know, others at different organizations yesterday reported that Russia has asked China for military aid, which is kind of an indication that this war is not going as Russia planned, that they need help now. I think they need economic help from China. And Russia and China had a, you know, amicable relationship that was getting stronger before this ever started.

There's been a lot of reporting that U.S. officials believe that Putin did give the Chinese a warning that this was going to come and waited until after the Olympics were over. And obviously the war started four days later after, you know, closing ceremonies. So, you know, the right now, Russian China have a common foe, which is the U.S. and the West at large. So the ramifications of this are that they're going to get closer. Whether China will step in with military aid, I still kind of find that to be a stretch. If they will step in to help Russia economically, I see that as more likely. And that would be a huge boost for Putin, for the Kremlin. And it would also make them kind of indebted to China.

They would owe a favor. And, you know, that changes things on the kind of global. scale as well. The other thing that people mentioned before this even started was the example of Russia sets by doing this with Ukraine and what the ramifications are with China and Taiwan potentially that China could try to say, well, Taiwan is China and, you know, start military action there. That is what happens when you have a war that challenges the rules-based world order that, you know, we've had in place really since the end of World War II. So I misspoke on the podcast last week and I said that the Russians haven't really been

clear on exactly what it is that they want that could lead to the end of that. I misspoke because I hadn't really seen it reported around that they have set out. Oh, I guess what they determine are a clear set of goals and a clear set of terms or situations. that would lead them to end this military operation, as they call it. Can you outline for people what those are and talk about whether or not those goals for the Russian Federation are actually realistic? Yeah, so it's things that include, you know, Ukraine pledging neutrality. So never joining NATO, never joining the EU. I think Ukraine would be willing to say we won't join NATO at this point,

mostly because NATO hasn't really given Ukraine a clear idea of if it will even ever let Ukraine in. But I do think the EU side of that is a bigger sticking point. I do think EU aspirations is much more important to Ukraine and Ukrainians than even NATO. That being said, all Russia has done is turn Ukrainians into people who now want to join NATO more than ever. So that might have backfired on them. The other thing was recognizing the full territories of the separatist republics. So there are these two breakaway regions that have been there since 2014, Russian-backed separatists in Danesk and Lugansk. Those areas are Ukraine, but now Russia has recognized them as independent.

The larger issue with those is that there was a line of contact, a front line where Ukraine controlled some of the territory, and including cities like Marupil that's under siege right now. And the separatists were on the opposite side of that line. And there was really no change in the status quo for many years. And now because in these separatist republics constitution, they lay out a much larger swath of territory. It would involve Ukraine's seeding quite a lot of land in cities that have been Ukrainian always to, you know, these so-called separatist republics that Russia kind of just randomly,

well, as a result of this, Ford declared them independent. So I don't think they will do that. I don't think they would give up territory that they'd already had. Is there a room for negotiation there on the Russian side, you think? I think that one is going to be a big problem. I cannot see Ukrainian leadership saying, okay, Marupil, Severdienz, Slovians, I mean, all of these are Ukrainian cities.

They have been Ukrainian cities for years and years and just saying, like, we give up on them. I find that, like, pretty inconceivable. I think they would agree to the original line of contact, what it was before the war started, and say, okay, everything beyond that, that line, which was the de facto separatist territories, you know, whatever, you guys can have them and we'll let it go and that could be separatist territories. I could see them agreeing to that.

I can't see them ceding more territory when they really have no reason to. And I think among the other conditions, like basically full demilitarization, I don't know if Russia has led up on this or not, but they would want like there to be absolutely no weapons in Ukraine. which I think Ukraine would have a tough time agreeing to considering everything that's happened. And Ukraine would have to recognize that Crimea is Russia. Right. Which I don't think Ukraine wants to do, but I think there might be some room for negotiation on that to stop a very bloody war. So all that being said, I think the two major ones are that, like,

the EU, the demilitarization. I do think Russia's ultimate goal is regime change. And possibly one of the like the points of these negotiations is to get Ukrainian leadership to agree to a deal that isn't favorable. And that creates a level of destabilization that would lead to like the ousting of Zelensky. And Russia would then be able to like put in a pro-Russian choice. I think that is their ultimate like object, right? When they're talking about encircling key, Kyiv and like the attack on Kyiv, the ultimate goal is to get rid of the current government and put in a Russia-friendly government. Wow. So when I hear you outline, you know, what the demands are from Russia, it really

doesn't seem like this war is coming to it. And we know they've had talks and we know they fell, but it doesn't seem like this war is coming to an end anytime soon. And as this war continues to go on, do you think? European countries or even the U.S. will change their stance on sending troops into this war, specifically if China becomes involved, even economically? Yeah, I don't know. I think the Afghanistan example, I guess, that, you know, the U.S. NATO just pulled out of that. I think it's largely because of that, they are really, really against any sort of interference. And I think, you know, China is going to stay out of it as well because of that,

at least militarily. Because some part of China has to know if we send our troops in, like the U.S. or NATO might send their troops in. Then we really are talking World War III. And like, I don't think anybody actually wants that, including Russia. But, you know, I think there's so the U.S. NATO right now are so against even like giving Ukraine planes, right? These MIG-29s that Poland was basically offering to hand over to Ukraine via the United States. That deal got crushed because the U.S. didn't even want to push the limits of that. Ukraine is asking for a no-fly zone and NATO assistance. U.S. NATO believe that would be stepping in too much.

and that would risk, you know, getting involved to the point where they would have to, you know, be a party to the conflict. So I think my sense is no, basically, that I don't think they're going to step in. I think the way that Ukraine has defended itself to this point sort of validates that stance. Their position is we have given Ukraine everything we could. weapons. Now, these are defensive weapons, but they are working at the moment. We have helped train their army. We have given them support in these many ways. I mean, from the U.S. alone, it's over $2.7 billion since 2014. And I do not get the sense that they want to step in further right after they just got U.S. troops out of a long war in Afghanistan.

Last question for me. And thank you so much for being available to do this. I know that, you know, it has to be incredibly stressful, scary, and tense to be in Ukraine right now. So we appreciate you taking the time to inform our listeners on what the goings on over there are. there's been a lot of talk and we've talked about it here on higher learning about some of the issues African students and Indian students and you know foreign nationals of different ethnicities are facing trying to leave Ukraine and their treatment at the hands of Ukrainian officials being told Ukraine, Ukrainian people first, Indian second, African third. and to a lot of us, to be quite honest with you,

who were so in lockstep with the people of Ukraine following the Russian invasion, I'm speaking specifically about some of the black people I know, myself included. It seemed like a smack in the face that we were so pro-Ukraine and that there seemed to be this cloud of international racism and xenophobia

that was involved in some of the refugee situations going on over there. What's the situation with that now? Have Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials in any way? Do they even have the bandwidth to turn their attention to situations like that? Are those African students able to leave the country now? Or is there a better situation there on the ground? And what do you think about people from the diaspora being hurt and offended when they would see those images? Yeah, I mean, I think it's people should be hurt and offended by those images.

It was, I mean, that was, there was a lot of evidence that that was happening. And it should not have been. It did seem like kind of right after there was a lot of attention being paid to it. in some of those instances were flagged, that the foreign minister, Dimitral Kulaba, like, said, like, we're going to take care of this. And I have heard about less.

Truth be told, I have not been by the border where people are leaving. I think that was happening more by the Polish border in Lviv. So I have less, like, firsthand reporting experience, you know, related to that. In Harkiv, where I was at the start of the invasion, and that's eastern Ukraine, there were a lot,

I mean, that's an international university city. There were a lot of Indian students, students from the Middle East, you know, just kind of hiding in train stations in Metro, underground metro from, you know, the persistent shelling there. And I remember going to a volunteer tent and, you know, just trying to do some reporting. And this Indian student walks up to me and he was like, can you help me translate? Like, I see that you're American. I was like, yeah, sure, because I speak Russian. And he wanted me to ask the organizers, like, how he could help them. He's a medical student, and he wanted to know, like, how he could help because he loves Ukraine.

And so it's truly awful for me to think that people like that were having those experiences at the border, but entirely believable, unfortunately. So I do think they addressed that. They got alive, international attention in the New York Times and other places. And I think it was something that was flagged. Not by Zelensky, but by Kulay, but I think that was something he addressed, the foreign minister. But in any case, I do think it was a rightful thing for people to be outraged by. this is my question but I do have a follow up so to the best of your knowledge you know black and brown students citizens have been able to flee Ukraine without any trouble okay I think of late yes I know actually there was a pretty fascinating incident in Harkiv specifically where Indian students were told to and there's a lot of them there were told to go to certain metro stations and hide there. And it was because the Russians told the Indians, like, because those

governments are close, the Russians warned them, like, hey, you should tell your people to go here. We're not bombing as much in that area, which is pretty, like, wild. My colleague, Jerry, she did some reporting on that. But my understanding is, yes, like, there has been a much more consulate that the evacuation effort since those first days that was so, I mean, obviously they were just overwhelmed and had no idea how to deal with it, even though the United States had been warning that a war was coming for months. But now I think it is better organized and much more equitable. The last question I did want to ask is there has been this talk about the threat of chemical warfare. I know the United States has said that they have.

have not, you know, sent any of the weapons they've sent over have not been related to that. And they've denounced any, you know, thing that Russia or even I believe China was saying that, that the U.S. was involved with that. Is there this likelihood of threat of chemical warfare coming from the Russians? I really hope not. Someone who's here. Yeah. You know, right.

I mean, I have, like, lines of reporting and, like, when chemical weapons get involved, that is one. But I mean, I want to say I don't think so. And the problem with saying that is, you know, before the war started, I said, I don't think Russians are going to be indiscriminately shelling in cities like Harkiv. Because there is a 95% Russian-speaking city. You know, those people have a live family ties to Russia. They don't hate Russia, the citizens of Harkiv.

If anything, they would have been more friendly than most parts of Ukraine. I'm not saying they wanted to be Russia, but they didn't have this great hatred for Russia. And then Russia went and like absolutely leveled Harkiv and alive civilian areas and caused a lot of casualties there. So I think what any rules that I thought the Russians might follow, you know, or any sort of, I guess mold of war have kind of gone out the window. My fear, and obviously we've seen chemical weapons used in Syria where Russia was heavily involved. So my fear in general is that because this is not going the way Russia wants it to,

because they are getting more frustrated, is that they will turn, it is more possible that they turn to methods like that. And then try to blame it on Ukraine or the United States. which no one here or in the West will believe, but for their Russian audience that is largely isolated from the rest of the world, it's possible that does, you know, people do believe that. So I hope not. I still find it unlikely.

I think it's a threat that doesn't have a lot of substance behind it yet. But I wouldn't rule anything out at this point based on what we've seen. Isabel Kershutian, the Washington Post. Thank you for your reporting. Thank you for making our audience smarter today. Be safe out there. Be safe out there. Yeah, thank you guys.

All right. Thank you so much. We'll be back with more higher and learning after the break. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it's. sounds like to be a million miles away.

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Ask your doctor about trim fire. Tap this ad to learn more about trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner.

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Criminal. No, oh, excuse me. No criminal charges, you're very right. No criminal charges filed against Deshaun Watson and battled. former Texans, I guess current Texans, QB, Deshawn Watson. Now, on Friday, this past Friday, a grand jury in Harris County, Texas, returned no bills on nine criminal complaints filed against Deshawn Watson. The Texas quarterback still has 22 civil lawsuits pending against him, but the grand jury's

decision followed by the district attorney's statement that criminal proceedings are now concluded it means it's highly unlikely Watson will face charges in Texas. Now, of course you guys know the story. We've covered it here on higher learning. 22 plaintiffs filed their suits recounting sexual assault and harassment by Deshawn Watson.

These are masseuse ladies that say at different times and while he was receiving massage services that he showed his penis, put his penis on him, put hands on them and did all kinds of inappropriate stuff. These are a lot of different ladies with a lot of different stories. Okay. No criminal charges filed, Rachel.

And this being a civil matter, a lot of people are saying that this opens the door to Deshawn Watson coming back to the NFL. Okay. That's a quarterback, trade rooms and stuff like that. There's a lot of talk that he might come to my team, the Saints. As a Saints fan, let me ask you a question. Do you think I should want Deshawn Watson as my quarterback? Because morally or because of his talents? Well, we know that he's talented, but I guess the question is,

does the fact that there are no criminal charges in this situation, to you, to me, to whomever, in some way, open the door, make it okay to open the door for Deshawn Watson to resume his NFL career? Well, it's tough because yes, no charges have been filed against him in the criminal sector. But let's not forget that he still has 22 civil lawsuits pending against him, which means that if he is found guilty on either. sorry, let me say this again, which means that if a jury finds in the plaintiff's favor in those civil cases, then that means he more likely than not did whatever it is they're accusing him up.

So I can't answer that question for you because I'm not a Saints fan and that's a personal decision for you. But what I will say is I guess I just don't like how people start jumping to, you know, saying that Deshawn didn't do anything because let's remember just because you're found not guilty or not charged in this case. In the criminal side, it doesn't mean you didn't do it. You know, I always throw out the OJ example. OJ was found to be civilly responsible for what happened, but not criminally. Sean Watson has 22 lawsuits still pending against him. So I guess what I'll say is for the people who are saying, oh, Deshaun, you know,

is not guilty, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's not necessarily the case. Just means that they don't have the evidence to pursue a criminal case against him. And it also doesn't mean that these women are lying. And I think that's the biggest problem that I have what comes to social media is that the moment somebody is not charged or found not guilty, people automatically say, oh, well, it didn't happen or, oh, we have to stop believing these women. I think that you should always believe the woman first. And just because it doesn't pan out the way that the woman says it happened or they're not held criminally responsible in court doesn't mean that we still have to stop believing women. And I guess I just don't like that side of it because that's what I was seeing a lot on social media is, oh, we start discrediting these women.

Always start saying these women were lying. Well, that's not necessarily true. So I guess for me, I'm really, I guess you have to let them, you have to let them go on with this career, right? You're like you yeah Yeah you you have to let him go on in this career right You like that No criminal charges I guess

This is due process This is due process You have to let him go on with this career Oh I'm listening Oh no no no I was going to say But he's still awaiting I mean the NFL is still investigating This NFL still might make a decision

Even though he's not going to be charged criminally The NFL might still say Oh you broke a moral clause here We're still going to suspend you for a certain amount of games So right This is just this is just one particular threshold. There are different thresholds. There's the NFL's threshold around his conduct. There is a civil threshold around his conduct. And then, of course, there's a criminal

threshold around his conduct. And this is just one threshold. I think for a lot of people, they look at it and they say, if it's not a crime, then he did nothing wrong. And I think that's the black and white way that people look at it. Yeah. I will say that. So I want to pick out on One thing that you said, when you believe women, the phrase believe women, what does that mean to you? Because I feel like I know what it means to me. But what does that mean to you? I think that you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think that's why I think that's where I think we agree.

Because it's better than the other side of it. I think it means that you have to give them the benefit of the doubt because the other side of it is worse. And it doesn't mean that you go on the attack and accusing the other person. It doesn't mean that you tear them apart, the person who is the accused. But it does mean that you take these women seriously when they make an accusation. I think I agree with that. So I always put it in the sense of, so you come to me, you say, hey, this happened. I go, okay, it happened.

Let's go get the bastard, right? then we go to get the bastard and he was in another city the night that it happened and then I'm like oh well it probably wasn't this guy so like I believe women first always but then you understand sort of

proof and then you get into a case and you like talk about but you believe the victim you give the victim space to talk about what it is that that happened because in the overwhelming majority of these cases there's no shenanigans with this, this is a cloud that's going to be over Deshawn Watson's for ahead for a long time.

And the reality is that there has to be some explanation as to how, if Deshaun Watson is saying, there has to be some explanation. Because I want people to understand what's being alleged here. If you have 22 different counts of this, if you have this many different masseuses, is this seems like a pathology of some, this seems like an urge or an obsession of some, of some sort that really needs to be explained. If you're telling me that this many people got their wires crossed,

that this many people had misunderstandings, well, there's got to be some sort of common threat, right? Unless there's this major conspiracy. against Deshawn Watson, which is not impossible, but it's highly unlikely. So if it went, Deshawn Watson does resume his NFL career and he is resuming his NFL career, make no mistake about it, the criminal charges not coming back means Deshaun Watson is going to play football again. Somebody got to do some talking.

Someone has to explain what the fuck is going on here. Because this is one of the more bizarre things that I think I've, ever seen for somebody who had a squeaky clean NFL image before this as well. And it all happened within a year. That's the thing. Like at the start of the pandemic. Yes. I mean,

even when I was pulling up to my hotel in Houston, I saw Deshawn Watson jerseys on the sidewalk. Yeah. You had one probably. Stop. Stop. All right. Kevin Durant,

your friend, blasts the private sector mandate, calls out Mayor Eric Adams. Eric, you have to figure this out. The Nets are waiting for Kyrie Irvin to come back. Kyrie Irvin refused to take the vaccine and he can't play in New York and in Brooklyn Nets home games. Okay?

Stop taking the vaccine. We talked about this a little bit earlier, but I have to ask you, do you feel like Kyrie Irvin in any way has been vindicated? with the way that this is gone. No. No.

Vindicated? No. A little bit he has. No, he's not vindicated in any way. Just because at this point, things are starting to open up. The rule looks so stupid at this point. No, no.

The rule is stupid now. But that doesn't vindicate him. Right now is stupid. And I love the fact that he sat courtside and paid for his own seats. He was just right there showing. how stupid it is that he can sit on the court, be right there in the mix. But it's not, you know what I mean?

Not vaccinated, but he can't go play. So I love that he had that. At this point, the rule is stupid. But that doesn't vindicate him because it's stupid now. It wasn't stupid a year ago. At the time, it was necessary. Right now, it's not the time. At the time, it's got to change.

felt necessary. Well, Vanna's anti-Vax. I'm not. Are you all catching this? Stop. I'm not. See? Are you catching this?

This is how narratives to get started? How can I be anti-vax when I'm all. Vaxed up, baby. Vanny Vax? But he won't. But he won't get boosted. Boosted. No more vaccines for you.

I know. That's not true. That's not true. I'll get. I'll get. But like for right now, I just don't, I'm going to be real with you. For right now, I don't feel like being down a couple of days. And then I wasn't.

Well, I don't feel like being. being down a couple of days just to turn around and still be able to get COVID and still be able, you know, I feel, look, plus I had it. You always knew. I got the little, oh me, only. You think you had it. Oh, me. Oh, me.

Real estate. Listen, it's okay, man. A lot of people have switched to the other side and have become anti-vax. I haven't switched. I'm not anti-vax. I'm not anti-mask. Anti-vax. We got, bro. Oh, whoa, whoa.

Whoa. Come on. got more n95s over here. I know you do. We got boxes in, we got boxes in N95. I know you too. I'm late.

Yeah. We did. The nigger 95 mask. No, no, no. To the point where after I had COVID, Kali came to help me out with styling. Hey, you might want a Kali going to put on a mask in my place. Yeah.

You got the N95s, the n95s, baby. We got them bitches. But yeah, look, I think it's about time. I have to agree with Kevin Durant right here. It's time. There's arena's full of people en masse. Kyrie Irvin did what he did. I still feel like at the time he did it.

It was selfish for his entire team. And it wasn't following the guidelines that were put out by most medical professionals that were telling us the vaccines are safe. Which is true. The vaccines are safe. The vaccines are effective. They stop you from having serious hospitalization and death. We've seen the death numbers below.

even though the spread has been up and that directly correlates with the fact that vaccination does work to keep you from going to the hospital it does keep you from dying. Does it stop you from spreading the motherfucker? No, which they've said. Right.

Which they've said. Yeah, but no, y'all got to let, I mean, and does and dusk is Kevin making these comments because he wants his star teammate back so they have a chance to make the playoffs? Of course. but he's also very right. It makes no sense.

Either all or nothing. That's how I feel. All or nothing. Don't half Cs. It's half Cs at this point. Rachel, okay. We got two topics left we could do. We got Emmett Till's relatives

want to reopen the 55 lynching case. Okay. Or they want a probe, renew probe of the 55 lynching case. Or we could do YouTube couple who attempted to spend night inside of a target now face seven years in prison.

Which one do you think we should do, Rachel? Rachel's choice, RC. To the YouTube. Okay, let's do this. I was hoping you picked this. A YouTube couple who attempted to document their nights spent inside a Pennsylvania target are now facing trespassing charges that could result in a lengthy prison sentence. As reported by Fox 29 Philadelphia, John LaRose,

25 and Charlotte Fisher, 24, who go by the YouTube moniker, Saucy and Honey, were arrested after wandering around the inside of a Chester County target after hours on February 21st. The pair reportedly left the store briefly around 3 a.m., which tripped the alarm system. Authorities arrived and searched the building but didn't find anyone. The couple returned to the store around 8 a.m. Okay. They were found in there, and now they could get seven years in prison. Rachel, your thoughts? Lock them for life.

For life. Up. I'm sick of this. You know what I mean? Like, so I don't, if this was for social media, if this was a prank, stop it. Gulak. Like, make it stop. I don't understand the purpose of this.

You, you, lock them up, make an example out of them. I don't want to see it anymore. Right. So this is my idea. So there's a, there's a prison in Florida, in Colorado. It's called ADX Supermax. All right. I don't know if you guys have heard about it.

ADX Florence Supermax. So this is Florence, Colorado. Okay. I'll tell you some of the people who are in ADX Florence right now. I just look at some of the notable people. I look at this all the time, right? Because I'm obsessed with like prisons like this. After us, after us.

So these are some of the people that are in it. Okay. Richard Reed, the shoe bomber. He's in ADX Florence. A lot of terrorists that they caught are in ADX Florence. I think Larry Hoover might be in there or was in there. And sometime Robert Hansen, a former senior FBI agent assigned to counterintelligence, who they made that movie about, who was a traitor, espionage people.

You got a lot of people in there. You got the founder, Tyler Bingham, from the area of Brotherhood, Larry Hoover. like I said, Jeff Fort, a lot of people in there. El Chapo in ADX Florence, I think this is where these people should go. You're worse than me. I think this is where they should go. They should go there so that we can cut the shit. Seriously.

Like, they should go there so we can cut the shit. Put them in the same cell as El Chapo. And also, they should stay there forever so that they can never procreate. Because we don't need little dumb motherfuckers walking around too. I hate it. It's like there's so much going on for you to go get your dumb ass locked up. I'm, look, all my abolitionists right now are like, Van, this is this, this to me, all my abolitionist partners. I love you guys. Shout to Philip McHarris. Shout out to Mark Lamont Hill. Shout out to all my abolitionists out there. Brooke Obie, all my people that hit me up,

Van, help us get rid of prisons and jails. We need to. but not for all motherfuckers. Some of it is natural selection. And it's natural selection to put these dumbass niggas in jail. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Break it to a target to give them all seven years. All of them.

Do every day. We need to stop the kids from doing this. Honey and saucy. Was that their names? Honey and saucy. I just like anything. thing to go viral. Y'all got to stop.

I swear like if someone comes up to me and does one of those pranks, I'm not having it. I'm the wrong one. Don't run up and try to take pictures with me. Don't act like you pour in a bucket of water on my head. That's not funny. That's not funny. I don't like that stuff. You know what else that they could do though?

If we don't want to contribute to the prison industrial complex, know what we could do? We can make them work in a target warehouse for no pay. Exploite them. I don't know if that would be allowed. Would that be considered community service? I don't know.

Community service and the church of where, bro, I'm telling you, I worked at Best Buy. There's nothing. The warehouse niggas are different. You got to do a movie based on your Best Buy days. It would be great. You should do some type of like spoof. You know, like kind of like 40 year old version had like that they were like a circuit city kind of thing. That was exactly how it was though.

You need to do a best. Bye. All right. I will say this is one thing about the Emmett Till situation is that the woman, Carol Bryant-Dunham, who's now in her 80s, she lives in North Carolina. She played a key role in Emmett Till slang, and they need to immediately bring her to justice where time runs out. The question is, and we'll talk about this woman Thursday, is this woman, I think, is in her 80s now. She lied on Emmett Till. And being that she lied on Emmett Till,

are you in favor of taking an 80-something-year-old woman throwing her in the slammer for a year or a year or two? Send her to the jail you just talked about. Lock her up. She's lived a good life. You know who didn't? You know who didn't live into their 20s, 30s, 40s, Emmett Till.

Because you lied on him and got a whole career. of white folks to back you up, lynch him in a brutal way. And like the families had to live with that for years. Meanwhile, you get to live your life out. Carolyn, is that her name? Carolyn Bryant. Now Carolyn Donham. Carolyn Bryan at the time it happened.

No, lock her up. Lock her up. And they should, yeah, we can talk about it more on Thursday, but send her there. Put her in the cell with El Chapo. Van's very serious question of the week. It's for Trudy and Rachel. Trudy pop on. Hey.

Hey. Would you prefer? Dang it. Would you, you almost got me? Would you, as a woman, you're dating a new guy. You guys come to the stupid part in the relationship where you start talking about body counts and how many people you've slept with. It's a question that was posed to me in this week. for a 29-year-old guy, the type of guy that Trudy would be dating, a 29-year-old professional man, what is the perfect body count, the perfect number of women that he has had sex with for him to be an ideal mate?

What's that number? Do you want me to take this, Trudy, or do you? Go ahead, Trudy. Go ahead, Rachel, because this is, I think the body count. question to me is on both sides is immature. It's super immature, but people came up to me and they were like, what's the right number, 29-year-old guy? It's not the right number.

It's the right letters. And as long as you ain't got no STD, I don't care. Or maybe as long as you don't have illegitimate children out there that you don't know about or know about, like that is important. That is what's most important. Okay. So you're saying the number doesn't matter. Let's say he's 29.

He's slept with a thousand women. I don't care. Do you don't care? I believe everybody should have a whole phase. And I would prefer if you got the out of your system before you. How do you know when? I literally just had this conversation. I see.

So you're telling me, so you're telling me right now that this is the thing. How do you know when someone is out of their whole phase? Maybe this is the, how do you know when the whole phase is over? They told me and your actions, how you approach me, how you deal with me, how you handle me. That's how I know if you're out your whole phase. I think that everybody should have one. I don't think it's something that should be just limited to men or women. I think everybody needs to get that out of their system.

And your whole phase is within reason to who you are. My whole phase looked very different from someone else's whole phase. I was having multiple dates in one day. I wasn't like sleeping with everybody. but yeah I had you know I had somebody of maybe a brunch at 12 another date at 4 okay Trudy 9 o'clock like yeah

you're right everybody looks different because I was out there if you ask me about body count like that's the quickest way to not talk to me anymore because I think it's immature too by the way the number that was thrown out there was 40. At 29?

40 at 29 was the perfect number as what was said. 40. Like, say like, okay, so he had 45. What's you going to do? 50. I just, it's as long as, again, no STDs. You haven't been with the friends or people I know like that. If you were with somebody famous or somebody that I'm a fan of or a friend or even a relative,

I need to know those things. That's important to me because you can't have me out here embarrassed. Right. But your body count. Your body count. Who cares? Fuck it. Fuck it.

Fuck. Democratize it. And by the way, not only body counts for people, but body counts for your mother. Your mom's body count. Okay. That is it for us today in higher learning. We ain't going to do this. I know.

We are not. Oh, do you want to, Rachel, do you, before we leave, do you want to give a message to Reddit? You set the Reddit on fire. Y'all just be, be kind to one another. Look, did it set the Reddit?

Is it Reddit popping? Good. The Reddit's popping. We love a popping Reddit. Be kind. Be gone, niggas. All right, take your thinking caps off, but do not stop learning. I have Van Laid Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. We are.