Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Deion Discourse and Jackson State, Plus the War for “Woke”

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

Van and Rachel discuss the reaction to Deion Sanders’s decision to leave Jackson State for Colorado (27:43), and Ron DeSantis aids being pressed to define the word “woke” (1:05:04). Plus, Natalie Nunn of ‘Baddies West’ calls in for a quick chat about exploitation (1:09:59), then a discussion of the collection of slave memorabilia in light of a recent red carpet appearance (1:24:19). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Natalie Nunn Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? High Learning is on. It is Ivan Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. I just brushed my teeth in front of you. Tell him what else you did, because I would love to get a poll out on who else does this. So I ate a taco, and the taco made my mouth feel nasty.

To the point where the big man felt like he was going to upchuck woolery, okay? Oh, it was like that? It wasn't a great taco. Oh. So it made me feel weird. Okay. So I was like, I got to stop and brush my teeth. You know, so I stopped on the way up here and I brushed my teeth.

I brushed them and I rinsed my mouth out. But then there was nothing to spit. So I swallowed it. Like the bathroom is maybe 50 feet away. But I was talking to pretty hair. And I didn't want to leave from presents. Rachel surprised me. I did.

With my stepmom. I don't know why. This is a stepmom, adopted mom, or whatever. My second mom, I love you, mother. My mom is going to listen to this and be like, well, talk about somebody. Your mom, I love you, Chris Olayton. But your mom is here.

She's in town. She's in town. She's here. Hey, look, she's in here right now. Hey! They can't see you. They can't see you. Don't worry.

Don't worry. She tipped out. She made it very clear she does not want to be on the podcast. So what did you guys do? We were talking about. Let me tell you what Rachel did. I don't know. Rachel took her mom to Watts

That is where my mother wanted to go And so I aimed to please My mom is the first time that she's been out to L.A. to visit me So she's seeing our house for the first time The way we live And I feel like she wanted to lay of the land She's been to L.A. before but not like this. Right. So I took her everywhere.

What's she thinking of your home? She loves it. Was it, did you clean up before she came? Cleaned it up. Isn't that something? But you know what? This is what my mom did. Isn't that something? Before our mothers come to our homes,

I'm in there like Mr. Clean. I'm doing the baseboards. You already know. Because your mom has a way of just being like, sometimes my mother will come and she'll go, hmm. Okay, she doesn't do that. At least she doesn't do it in my face.

She'll be like, hmm. And I'd be like, what? It's with nothing. You know, if you take a little, you know, like, or what? Just take a little dollop of dishwashing liquid and then you put, I don't know if you got like, and you can just get in the corners right there

because I wouldn't want your home to keep a nasty house. I don't want you to keep a nasty house. And I'd be like, all right, cool. You know what she did do? What? We rolled up, weren't there more than 10 seconds, pull up in the driveway, and she just starts looking around. And she's like, is this the way that you walk through the house?

And I was like, every day. And she was like, you know, they say it's a security, issue when the bushes are up this high. My mom watches a lot of ID. She watches a lot of oxygen, all those shows. So constantly on her mind are like evil neighbors and you know, people who stalk and

so now I'm nervous about things I've never been nervous about before. We got copper. You know he's ferocious. Copper does his thing. We've got cameras. We've got a ring. But now I'm feeling like it's not enough. Your house is very accessible. I would like to move on to the next

I was just thinking about it. When I came there, I was like, I would expect her to be tucked off a little bit more. You know, like, tucked back. Well, I don't know what kind of money you think we have. Tuck back a little bit. Now, but I think, actually, it's hidden. It is hidden. It is hidden.

Very nice home. Very nice home. So you guys went to Watts. We didn't get the Watts story. Tell us what happened to Watts. What do you mean tucked off a bit, back of it? Like, how far back do we need to be? Why are we, what do you mean we're really accessible?

I mean, don't give away, you know, people were, People can find me. I'm going to tell. But now I'm concerned. It's fine, Rachel. We live under a street light. Uh-huh. That makes me feel better.

What is that? Well, because the neighborhood, the other street that intersects with it, it's dark. I would never live on that street. You can't see anything. We live right under a street light. I think dark is better. But see, I feel like people would be more like, oh, I don't want to go there because you can see everything. It's bright at night.

Yeah. But also, they can see where to find you. So it's like you're under the lights. It's like there's a house right there. So, do, do, do, do, target. Next week our house is going to be up for sale. No, no, no, no, no. It's fine.

It's a great neighborhood. And, you know, it's, it's whatever. So you're avoiding telling the story of how you. There's not much to say about, there's not much to say. Tell people. Tell people. Listen, there's not much to say. I asked my mother.

So I took her to Saturday. We went to the Gettie. Sunday, we went to the Gettie. The weather's been kind of, this weekend in L.A. Not typical. LA. Not great. It was a little rainy, cloudy, but it opened up for us.

It was really nice. We had a great brunch. And so then I had purchased tickets to the Academy Museum. They have an exhibit there that I thought would be great. My mom loves classic old movies. I thought this would be really nice to see. Everybody keeps talking about it. And then I could tell she's like,

I'm like, do you want to go to the Academy? You know, it's okay. I'm whatever. I can tell she doesn't. And I said, well, do you want to go? She mentioned some places that she wanted to go. And so I said, do you want to go to Watts? She goes, yes.

And I said, okay, well, that's the excitement that I was looking for. Let's go to Watts. So we drove, don't really know where to go. Couldn't call a you because I wanted to surprise you today. Right. So I knew there were the Watts Towers. And that that was like a whole thing, you know, you could pay to go. So I just put that in the GPS and we head there.

It was closed. And actually the road was closed to even get to it. So now we're just driving around. Right. Then I noticed people are looking at us. And, you know, I don't want to generalize or anything. Let's just sit in the story there. Right.

Let's just sit in the story there. Rachel was out there looking like fresh bread. Rachel was, first of all, see, this is why, see, look, let me tell you something. People, they say stuff to me. They're like, Glasses Alone was on this podcast. And they say, hey, Van, Glasses is not quite politically correct. or anything like that. But you know what?

Glass is 7th Street Watts. Glasses. So I could have hit up glasses. You could have hit up glasses. He would have loved that. I know he would. You could have hit up glasses, glasses, William Watts.

What a he'd have given you a threat? Oh, my man, top. And nobody would mess with us. But nobody mess with you anyway because it's a great community of people, but you whipping around there. But we look green. Yeah, yeah, you looked green because you were in a green porch.

But we looked out. And that's what I hate. All of a sudden I was kind of like, people are looking at us. We were in a very loud car. And I said, we should probably leave. Because you know what I was thinking? I feel like we talked about this on the podcast. You didn't have to leave, but you maybe felt like you were.

We were just in a place we didn't know. We weren't familiar with. You don't want to flunt. You know what I mean? Yeah. If I had been in a different vehicle, if it had just, I just, but also we didn't know where we were going. And I just didn't like that. I like to always know where I am.

Right. So, you know. You felt, you felt. No. You felt. No. Don't do that to me. But I felt, I did feel like, you know what, I don't, I don't know where I am.

Right, you don't know where you are. You, you, you, you were at the 1923 premiere earlier you saw me. I did. Now what are you going to ask me? I'm not going to ask you anything about that because, you know, certain stuff we talk about. That's off the record. That's off the record. We know.

But have you watched 1923? I have. I've seen majority of the first episode. What did you think? It's good. Did you see 1883? Yes. Okay, so the narrator is the same.

Because I was like, that voice sounds very familiar. But you don't see her, at least up until where I got in the episode. It starts out, I'm telling you, Helen Mirren is bad. Yeah. She is bad. But it's also establishing where we are. Because I'm like, okay, who's that kid? How does Harrison Ford work in here?

So you're getting the family tree dynamic. You might even even take out like a pen and write it down. Okay, this person came here because of this. He's John Dutton's grandfather in this show. No. He's not. He's not John Dutton's grandfather. Unless I'm getting the family tree wrong.

He is the brother of Tim McGraw. Interesting. So he's the uncle of John Dutton's father. The uncle of John Dutton's father. Here's the thing. I'm very excited about it. by 1883, Yellowstone as a show has become unwatchable. Okay.

You know, I'm only on season four. Like, do not tell me about season five. So here's the thing. Yellowstone as a show has become the most interesting television experience. It's, how can I explain this? Do you remember True Blood? Didn't watch it. You've never watched True Blood.

Never, never seen it. So I'm not going to be able to articulate what I mean. You have got to watch True Blood. True Blood is the one. Worst best television show that's ever been made. That's not selling it. That's the best way to sell it. True Blood is so stupid.

Vampires? Werewolves, dudes that turn into dogs, fairies, like all different, all in one Louisiana town. Is this what Hershal Walker was talking about? No,

Hershawker was talking about Fright Night. Hershal Walker was talking about, by the way, there are no werewolves in Fright Night. Versa Walker was talking about Friday night. I'm, be real. I'm, I'm, look, I'm hoping that the people in Georgia, but when this comes out, it'll be Tuesday.

It'll be voting day in Georgia. Yes. Georgians, please, please, don't put this crazy-ass nigger in the Senate. And it was like, I feel so guilty, pretty hair sitting right over there. I just, I'm cursing. She's okay She's okay

But no Like seriously Hershal Walker is sublimely unwell I've been watching more and more Hershal Walker stuff

It's just He is Incredibly incompetent Just I'm talking I'm talking about Monia mentally dense

I might be I just feel like He's not gonna win Right He technically, I mean, Warnock barely won, but I feel like in a race where it's just the two of them, Warnock will be fine. But I could be, you know, being a little naive.

So I was in Atlanta this weekend. Ooh, should we want to talk about it? Wait, wait, can you finish your thought about Yellowstone? What? You were comparing Yellowstone to True Blood, and you were saying Yellowstone is not watchable anymore. And as a person who's about to start season five, I need to understand what that means.

What I mean is that the show is bad now, but it's bad in a way that is still unbelievably entertaining. She watches. My mom watches, and she's saying it is. Yeah, she's right. She says, I'm right. Yolstone is bad.

It's bad TV. But it's still so much fun to watch. It's something happened on this last episode. It was so stupid. It's so dumb. It makes no sense that it would happen. But this is Yellowstone. Now, this is where we are.

1883 and 19. 23. These are shows that still take themselves seriously. Yel also understands now that it's jumped the shark. It's over. There's no, there's nothing. You know what I mean? And I like it. I like when shows just get to the fuck it stage.

Like we don't care. And that happened to True Blood early on. True Blood is a good show though. How many seasons? Five? Okay, maybe Brian and I will start. We're always looking for a new show. What does Brian watch? Like old Gillette commercials? He's watching Boardwalk Empire right now. I can't get into it.

Yeah. I mean, we're three episodes in. I said, just leave me. I'm not into it yet. The first season of Boer Walking Empire is fantastic. Okay, well, not for me. I'm three episodes in, and I just, I'm like, who is he and what city is he attached to? And I just, it's not as great as, say, the real housewives. I'm telling you. You really feel like you.

So, I have a question. I'm not trying to diss the real housewives because, you know, I fuck with them. I got Kalika on it. What do you like about the Real Housewives? I can't explain it. And I've been watching it for years. I find the women fascinating. And I'm talking more of the OGs.

Now people come on, they know, like, the recipe of the show, and they're trying to be something that they're not. But the original women, it's like they take themselves so seriously, but they're all, I don't know if I should say it like this. It's going to say deranged. They're just all. quirky and I don't know. They just, they want to be famous, but they don't want to be famous, but these are their real lives and they're just changing all the time.

And I just find the dynamic of housewives so interesting. So I've decided something. I've decided to get to renew my subscription to the Zeus network. How did we get here? Because you're not going to compare Zeus to Housewives. Why? Not the same. Hold on.

What? Zeus is more dramatic. More outrageous and more staged. Hold on, hold on. And Zeus is very staged. I find it so hilarious that we're drawing lines in the sand between what happens on the housewives and what goes on on Zeus. And I'm going to be honest. Zeus is most of what I'm watching on the housewives are white people.

Their drama. So, Zeus, that's not Zeus. I don't necessarily want to see that. This is what we're going to do. We're going to democratize the reality conversation. And I need you to start watching Baddies West. No, I'm not watching that. I see the billboards.

You have to watch Baddies West. I see it. You have to watch the Chrison Rock and Blueface show. That's on Zeus? This is all stuff coming out on Zeus. I thought it was just social media that they were doing. No, this is Zeus. Zeus is popping.

No. Jocelyn's Cabaret. I can't believe you watch all. these. Don't ever talk about housewise with me. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I don't really watch them. Yes. But if I'm going to watch something, I'm going to watch Zeus. I don't like to see, I don't want to see us. I like to watch the head. What are you talking about? Bravo was made off the back of black women. No? Keep going. What what backs of black women was Bravo made off of? The real housewives of Atlanta. That came. First, there was O.

that was this, that's what kicked it off. Right. And you had that a couple of seasons. And I want to say, and I might need Chelsea's help on this. I might, no, no, the black seasons are the best. Potomac, Atlanta. Yeah. Atlanta's kind of falling off a bit.

But Potomac, outstanding. But I think before you even got to Atlanta, I think Jersey was there or New York. One of them was there before. So it wasn't built on the backs, but we're obviously more entertaining. It was the second one? Dang it. What? Atlanta was a second one.

second season. Chelsea just came in. But it's, but it started with OC. And there might have been two or three seasons before. So you feel like you're too good for Zeus? No. I'm saying I don't want to see us act that way. I'd rather watch them. This is the whole thing. Chelsea, do you watch Zeus? I had to Google what Zeus was. Chelsea said she had to Google what Zeus was. Y'all, this is not right. I know what Zeus is. At least, at least when we act up on Zeus, I feel like it's a nigga that's, his name is Zeus that owns the Zeus network? No, you know who one of the guys is behind it? Who? Big Zeus. He's a big social media guy. Big Zeus? Oh, gosh, he was big on Vine.

What's his name? Who runs Zeus? I need to know this guy. I want to talk to him. When you see him, he's, he was on Wile and Out. He, um, oh. Who runs Zeus? King Batch. Thank you, Donnie. Wait, King Batch runs Zeus. He's one of the guys. There's like three people. I don't think King Batch runs, Zeus. A hundred percent. Zeus Network by King Batch. I like King Batch.

I think he's very talented. He is. Zeus Network. I'm going to look it up Zeus Network right now. I guess I just also feel like it's like black people exploiting black people. The Zeus Network is run by Lemuel Plummer. It was founded by social media personalities to Storm Power, Amanda Cernie, King Batch,

and Lemuel. Yeah, okay. So I'm watching this. I guess, Because I see it right now, I guess my thing is, if we go on act out and get rich off of it, why not support the black people that do it? I don't, I don't, also, I'm against. Exploiting?

No, I'm against this notion that we should be embarrassed by how people carry on. Did that word ever come out of my mouth? I said they're exploiting them. Who's being exploited? Black people, like, do these shows that on, it's like they're taking, so. Wait, so. What was one of the shows? It's like the girls from love and hip hop, and they would sit, I remember this, they would sit them in a room like this.

Right. And they were like, no producers, nobody's going to stop you, you can just go. And I remember I was having a conversation. But Andy Cohen isn't exploiting them. He is, but it's mostly not us. It's wild. Chelsea, come here. Chelsea, is this mic on?

Like, Chelsea, come here and let's have this Zeus conversation. I feel like we've had, we do a Bravo podcast. Everybody should listen to morally corrupt on Ring of Reality TV. I want to be a part of Zeus. I don't even, I can't believe I don't know the Lemuel Pop Plummer, the black man behind Zeus. I could only speak for my housewife knowledge and respect for them because, again, I had to Google Zeus. I just found out what it was. You didn't even know what the Zeus Network was.

No. Shout out to Zeus. Shout out to Jocelyn. Shout to Natalie Nunn. We have Natalie on the podcast. I need Natalie Nunn on higher learning. You know with Natalie Nunn. From Bad Girls Club.

Natalie Nunn who's made a whole career out of this. Who's a boss, a lady boss. Shout out to Natalie Nunn. I've been running LA for a long time. I need her on the podcast. Talk about Zeus. Okay, we'll get on that. Okay.

I will say, I feel like with the Black Housewife franchises, we've had our own indiscretions within each other. Atlanta had the fight with Portia in Kenya. Indiscretions. We had, it looks like fights. Yeah. Jesus is perfect. And then we just had a drink toss a couple nights ago on Potomac.

But what I respect about these franchises is that they like to have conversations about holding black women to a higher standard and how we have to, how we are viewed in the society and how we, yeah. Y'all full of shit. Zeus exploits every black stereotype there is and they're making money off of it. And I guess this is. Maybe Zeus has those discussions, I'm not aware. They don't. Potomac in Atlanta, we have conversations about black women. That's not what y'all watching these shows for.

Y'all watching these shows for beef between black ladies. Zuse is doing it. No, actually not. What are we doing? For the absurdity, for the one-liners, for the comedy, for the friendship. For the comedy and the one-liners of people going at each other. If you actually watched it, it's not what you think it is. No, I'm not even saying that.

Like she talks about the drink toss. It took eight episodes to get to a drink toss. That's not majority of what the show is. Let me tell you something. Tell you what Zeus is. Zeus is, it cuts through all of the respectability stuff. And I haven't really even watched it. But I'm telling you what I get of Zeus.

It's cutting through all the respectability stuff and getting right to it. And by the way, this is an outsider's view. When I see housewife stuff, When I see the stuff, shout out to Mona, I love you, Mona, I love everyone. But I see the house-wide stuff. When I see the love of hip-hop stuff, I see a lot of people talk about, and I have any problem with any of this. I think it's all entertainment.

But I hear about the beefs and the people who don't like this. And Portia said this about this person. And I look at the reunion. And didn't your husband? Wasn't he with the pastor of the church? And wasn't he doing this? Pastor Holy Hoare. Right, right.

Pastor Holy Hoare. These are the things that I hear about. people giving out each other's phone numbers. Like all kinds of stuff like that happened, right? At a reunion, yeah. At a reunion on show, whatever. I saw one clip where the lady went to a plot of land where the other lady was about to have her house.

You see this? That was Atlanta. She went to a plot of land and there was a look and she was clearly shading this woman. I'm sitting here laughing my face off because I know. It's shady. It's shady. It's shady. But how hard is it to create a network where we're exploiting every single

stereotype? It is. One of their first shows I said was putting them in a room saying there will be no producers, nobody will hold you back. So these girls could just fight each other. They took beef from love and hip hop, others bad girls club, and they just let them fight each other. It is, it is so.

So these are the shows that are on Zeus. Go ahead. We should have somebody from Zeus on. I definitely want to be. I definitely want to have this conversation because I think there's a little bit of respectability bullshit that's going on. I will have the same energy.

Oh, get out of here. Look at you. Look at you. So these are the shows that are on Zeus. Be Samo's, you're my boyfriend. Joshin's Cabaret. Life with Lil Tate. Pretty girls lit.

The real black China. The real dumbass world. Sexy and Social ATL. Shirtless Sheffin with Don Benjamin. shout out to the homie Don Benjamin who's chefing without his shirt on you know what I mean your chest hair all in your mac and cheese

a taste of dance with Amanda Cernie Tokyo Tony's Finding Love ASAP Ultimate Fitness Challenge with Candace and Omar The conversation Baddies The whole Baddies ATL Baddy's South Baddies West Created by Natalie Nunn

Let the If we go act crazy At least we should be able to be empowered by it You got to you're drinking the Andy Cohen juice over there. Oh, no, I'm not. You are. Ronaldino has a show on Zeus.

We're going to have to have somebody to come on and talk about it. I guess I was on reality TV. You were not. And I've talked about this before that a lot of people who don't look like us base their perception of how we are when they aren't, they don't, they don't have black people in their lives, right? So their perception of black people a lot of times is based on reality TV.

So when reality TV exploits certain stereotypes of us, it becomes extremely problematic. And I feel like Zeus does that to the umpteenth degree. And it's by black people. It's for us. I don't know if it's for us, but it's definitely by us. And they're making money off of us.

I don't like, I'm not for it. I think it's just, it's so extreme. Listen, it's not ultimate fitness challenge with Candace and Omar. That's not what that is. But some of these shows, some of them. I'm not going to say every single show, but some of these shows. So I just have, to be honest with you, I think it's really interesting that if it's reality TV anywhere else, if VH1 is footing the bill. Oh, no, I have a problem with, I've talked about Mona Scott Young.

I've talked about love and hip-hop. What's the difference between love and hip-hop and the real housewives? They're told you don't watch either one. And I can say this. I watched both. I actually stopped watching Love and Hip Hop because it became too much for me. It was too staged. When Love and Hip Hop started off, New York, Chrissy.

Oh, Jim Jones, it was so good. Trial and Mendezes, who I just saw in Atlanta, Chalcimedes. Yandy Mendezes, it was so good. Now, same thing I said, talks about housewives. When people know the recipe and they're trying too hard just to become famous to break out, it loses it. it's become so staged. Like the fights are so fake. Love and hip hop is not what it used to be.

And I don't watch it. It is not the same thing as Housewives. There are similarities for sure. So you're saying that the Housewives is a non-exploitive portrayal of black people? No, it does. It does exploit it. I had to, no, but not to the same level. I said to the umpteenth degree,

I'm not going to sit here and say that there aren't similarities. I literally had a conversation with Andy Cohen on his radio show very recently. He asked me about the way he handled a situation with Garcell on the reunion and how he had to apologize for it because he dismissed the black woman's feelings. And he asked me what he should have done in a different way because I told him you were wrong. So I'm not going to sit here and say that there aren't similarities. But I think there's a difference when it's us putting it out there, I feel like. And it's to such an extreme. Not every show on Zeus.

So when it's us putting it out there, this is the last thing I'm saying by it. We should want to do a little bit better. But when it's us putting it out there, at least it's us in control of it. And it's out of control. Pro Zeus. It's out of control. I would, I would, I think this is easy. I think this is low hanging fruit.

For the Zeus Network, for the Zeus Network? I think this is low hanging. This is easy to do. I'm about us being at the control of it. Zeus. Zeus Network. I'm going to get a show on Zeus. Vans.

But I wanted to be. I wanted to be. What can I do on the Zeus Network? What show could I do? It needs to play into a stereotype. It does. Oh, how about this? Easy.

It's an easy show we could do. No we. You'll be on your show. I want to do, if the Zeus Network is listening, I want to do a weight loss show about me on the Zeus Network. What's the stereotype? Like fat boy, fat chicken eating nigger. fat backs or something on Zeus

and we could it could be a bunch of fat boys and we could do something on Zeus Zeus reach out to me I'm with us all right speaking to us we got to talk about Dion Sanders and the HBCUs on the other side of this guys Jackson State has torn us apart

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Charlemagne, the God, text me. And he says, Dion Sanders is going to take the job at Colorado. Okay. And I'm like, yeah, I pretty much figured that. Once they had offered him the job, I figured you take it. Right. Because I have been watching college sports, obviously, all season long.

And I know that Dion Sanders' name was floated for a lot of Power Five jobs. So I was figuring to myself, He gets a Power 5 job. He's probably going to take an opportunity depending on what the facilities look like and where the place is. And he was like, yeah, they're going to call him a sellout. And Charlemagne definitely doesn't think that that's the case.

But I was like, why? I was like, no, they won't. Like, I literally have it in the text. I was like, why would they call him that? Like, his name has been up for the Auburn job. He's been talking about him. In Florida State didn't turn around. They had a great season over there.

Mike Novell's got December those playing good. I was like, he might have taken that job. Yeah, I would have thought he would. You know what I mean? He might have taken that job. But he goes, no, I'm going to call him a sell out. I literally did not think or did not see the discourse behind Dionne Sanders taking this job happening. No sooner did he accept the job.

Then that discourse actually began. And the more I dug into it, the more I kind of understood it. But I was actually blindsided by the fact that so many people, I really. I really was. Would be upset that he left Jackson State. Dionne Sanders has now left Jackson State has been announced. Saturday night he was announced as the new head coach at Colorado. It's 27 and 5 at Jackson State.

They were 12 and 0 this past year, undefeated regular season. 43-24 blowout of my Southern University Jaguars and the Swack Championship. He told his team of his departure soon after Saturday is winning his Dion on leaving the team. Okay, down for the nitty-gritty. I know y'all been hearing the rumors and everything that's been transparent around about my whereabouts and what I'm going to do. And I like for y'all to hear it from me and not from anyone else. It is what it is. Either in coaching, you get elevated or you get terminated.

Ain't no other way. Either elevated or terminated. and there ain't no gray yard for coaches where they die at the place. It don't work like that. They either going to run you off or you're going to walk off upon your own recognizance. I've chosen to accept the job elsewhere next year. I'm going to finish what we started. We're going to dominate.

I'm going to be here to that end and that conclusion. And then when that conclusion, we will move on. Rachel. I'm shocked that you were shocked that you thought people wouldn't black people because it's black people wouldn't be upset with Dion for leaving an HBCU because I think

there is a huge sector or just a lot of black people weren't paying attention to the other side of it, right? You're a person who's well-versed in sports. You're aware of that one job is a stepping stone to another. There's a goal here. Whether you want to be the top at college or you want to use this as a stepping stone to get into the NFL.

You're familiar with that. Most people aren't. So most people are looking at what Dion Sanders did. Black people are looking at what Dion Sanders did at Jackson State. They're looking at all the attention that he brought, the way he talked about it, the way he got mad at the fact that they didn't have facilities that were up to date, how he called on his famous friends to, you know, give them gear, how he brought college game day there, the fact that he won a national championship.

if they were listening to him and the pride that he had being with the HBCU and everything that he was doing for them, all these top recruits coming there, that's all people were looking at. If you don't know the other side of sports, then I can see you completely being upset and thinking that this is all that Deon Sanders did. Dion Sanders was, you know, an outstanding college player, an outstanding NFL player, and he was giving back to his people and to HBCUs and doing something that had never been done before. And they thought that was what he wanted to do. That was it. So if that's the way you think, I can understand exactly why people are upset.

But I also think that people wouldn't have been as upset if he didn't roll it out the way that he did. So it's not necessarily to me the what he did, but it's how he did it. A lot of people had a problem with the fact that he said as a coach, you're either elevated or terminated. And he explained it, but it sounds bad. that's why I say it's the how you're elevated so it makes it seem like Jackson state's down here and you got to elevate like everything else is above that HBCUs are down here Jackson states down here and to do better to elevate myself I have to leave Jackson state so I would be offended if I was at Jackson state or if I was a player in that room making it seem like we're not good enough

for you and that's how it came across and then I think even more in his speech he was talking about how, you know, basically God told me this and you better not question, how dare y'all question God. I'm paraphrasing his. It's kind of said that. It was like 10 minutes speech. Check it out on Twitter. So I think all of that put a bad taste in people's mouths. And it was so quick, again, if you don't understand how it works in college, the fact that he won his championship, caught a flight, and then announced to Colorado, it just seems dismissive of everybody else's feelings who got so invested with what you brought to Jackson State in that sense of pride.

and now it's just gone. Hmm. I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it. No, I understand it too. So I think there's a couple of things here. Number one is when the discourse started to happen, I started to realize that I completely read it wrong.

I want to know more about it, right? I'm very aware. When Dionne Sanders said that he was leaving Jackson State, I was happy. It's happy he's gone. Get him out. Really? Yeah.

Jackson State just beat Southern Union. That's right. 43, 24 in a blowout for the Swite Championship. Y'all won the halftime show. We absolutely won the halftime show. We'll talk about that later. I turned on. I looked at the game.

I'm like, what's going on in the game? Look at the game. The game was something like 35-0-0. I don't care. I'm like, get them out. Get the next guy in there. I'm not trying to have them come through Mumford and step on our heads once a year out.

Get them out. Fine. That's like here. The southern, I can't have it. He's going on here. He's too much. Okay. When I started to, I did a comment autopsy, which I like to do on issues like this.

And what a comment autopsy is is I go on either the Shade Room or Dion's Instagram page. And I look at the comments. And I separate the comments between the blue check marks who were all in support of Dion besides my man, Wes, Wes Bellamy, who had some nuanced things to say. And I look at the difference between those comments. And the people who are not blue chap marks. And I think this stark difference in the reaction is very telling. Because people who have had to make decisions about where the trajectory of their careers and where they're going to go.

And have maybe had to, maybe they are in a certain industry. And they understand the decision that Dion had to make, which when we look at it, he was making $300,000. a year at Jackson State. A lot of the money he was given back to the school. And his contractor, his per year salary at Colorado is going to be around $4.5 million.

Right? So people that are all career driven that are into it, like us or other people, even Charlemagne, that are career driven are like, whoa, if that opportunity comes, you take that opportunity, you got to go.

Some of the people who maybe weren't so familiar with that, or that's not their life, they want to be protected. And there's an insecurity that exists in the black community around who really is for us. Sure.

And not even who really is for us, who won't turn their back on us no matter how much money is available to us. Because the insecurities that we have have to do with our, um, our status here and America, socially, economically, culturally.

We want to know that some people are going to choose black over green. Sure. Because as long as you have a people who are disenfranchised, who don't have a lot of money, the lure of money seems to be the only thing that you need to make them turn their back on one another. And that insecurity will exist as long as the wealth gap exists the way that it does. The experience at a HBCU is nothing but a microcosm for the wealth gap that exists in America. These are land grant universities we've talked about them that have been purposefully and systemically underfunded for money that they are entitled to over the course of 100 years.

Right. And so Dion's salary at Colorado, five million bucks, four million bucks. Southern's endowment is $9 million. We've talked about this before. So Dion makes on a per year basis what the university that I went to runs on. So when you think about that, LSU has a $28 million locker room. The locker room is $28 million. The school on the north side of Baton Rouge doesn't have that much money endowed to it.

So the wealth gap just going right up the freeway, North Baton Rouge and South Baton Rouge, two different schools serving two different parts of the city and two different parts of the state, is prodigious. So all of these things are felt to the point to where you have somebody like Dion Sanders, a lot of people, when I looked at this, felt that it was tailor-made that he would stay there for a long time. This is a man who is not financially insecure. Right. This is a man who has the legend status and has what people think.

is the fuck you money to be able to go there and be there for decades and decades and do some things and they felt betrayed when he left. I always knew that Dion Sanders would leave. It was this, to me, was a launching pattern to his coaching career. And his coaching career, when people say that Dionne Sanders wasn't swag, Eddie Robinson Jr. said that Dionne Sanders wasn't swag. and obviously he meant it as a pejorative, but it was true.

He wasn't. Right. Like he wasn't SWAT. Like Dionne Sanders was one of the best high school athletes in the country. He then went to Florida State. And after that, he went to the NFL. When we're talking about the culture of the swag, you're talking about Eddie Robinson being at Gremlin.

Forever. We're talking about Pete Richardson at Southern. When you say elevate, when he was talking about elevating, the fact that he would use that term tells me that he looked at the job as a step and stuff. By the way, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think so either. That's what coaches do. But I'll tell you this.

There's a very distinct culture that exists at the HBCU. And a lot of this to me is illuminated the fact that people don't understand that culture. Like for me. That didn't. Right. I didn't go to an HBCU. But what I mean by that is that, sure, there are things that Dion Sanders did for Jackson State. I don't know how much he did for HBCUs.

Hmm. I would disagree with that. How? Well. What did Dion's, what happened? What did Dion Sanders do at Jackson State that is recreateable at another HBCU? Could there be an argument made that what? what he did going to Jackson State with his status and who he is.

Because he didn't have to go to an HBCU. He could have been an assistant. You know what I mean? But he didn't want to do that. He wanted to be a head coach. And because he wanted to be a head coach, one of the only places that he could go and be a head coach was a Jackson State. Right now.

I think he could have held out. I think because of who Dion Sanders is, I think he could have gotten, he could have done a head coaching job somewhere else. It did not have to be an HBCU. that was available to him right now. He wanted it right now. Deont Sanders wasn't a head coach at the high school level. It doesn't matter.

With his name and status, I absolutely think he could have gotten a head coaching job somewhere else. He would have. Okay. I do. So this one I'm saying. Deon Sanders was the offensive coordinator at the school that his kids went to, right? Trinney. It was an office of coordinator there. I want to stay on this point real quick because I want people to look at some of the other people who are head coaches in the swag, right?

You have Hugh Jackson, who's the head coach at Gambling right now. Hugh Jackson has been in the NFL, right? He went to the NFL, he had some issues in the NFL, okay? And when it was time to get another head coaching job, do you know what is open to him? Come coach at one of our schools. Come coach here in the SWAC. Eddie George is currently the coach right now at Tennessee State, right? he doesn't have any coaching experience.

Come coach at Tennessee State in the SWAC. Art Bryles from Baylor. I remember. The head coach whose team nearly got the death penalty. I think they actually did get it because of all the sexual misconduct that was going on there was going to grambling before an outcry of the national media. The SWAC is a place. It's just like Black America.

will, it's very forgiving and you'll get your start. You'll see a 27-year-old head coach there. You'll see coaches there that have resumes that might be a little bit thinner. You know what I mean? But that's how they build

decades-long legacies. That's how they figure out how to be head coaches. They grow into men there. They become a part of the community there. So the fact that Jackson State gave Dion an opportunity to be a head.

head coach when he had never been a head coach before. Sure. That is something that to me is indicative and sort of par for the course of how it goes and swat jobs sometimes. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying I truly believe that Dion, maybe not that year, three years ago when he started, I think he could have still got an head of coaching job somewhere else because he's Dion Steners.

But that's not, that wasn't my point. Your question was, what is he done for HBCUs in general? The way we were talking, you mentioned a bunch of other coaches. who have gone, whether they've been on the professional level and gone to SWAC, whether they had a great college program that they were with and they were going to go. The way we were talking about Jackson State and what Deion Sanders did there is not like we had not talked about any other coach with an HBCU in that way. The conversations we were starting to have about HBCUs, that is because of Deion going to Jackson State. I think that there, we could see more, I mean,

Dionne Sanders is on another level, but I'm just saying coach, former players, we want to be head coaches, come through this system and bring conversation and attention and college game days and paraphernalia and sponsorships and whatever it may be to another HBCU. It doesn't have to be Jackson State. And that's what I think Deon Sanders did. What is? Is that Eddie George?

Is that lasting? A Heisman trophy winner and an NFL Hall of Famer borderline, but whatever, he was a great player, is at Tennessee State. I know. The difference between nobody's talking about Tennessee State. No one. He's not Dionne Sanders. He's not Dion Sanders.

You're right. So, like, what I'm telling you right now is what Dion Sanders did at Jackson State in order for him to, if you guys want to have conference. Eddie, Southern and Gremlin play every single year after Thanksgiving on NBC. That's because of Eddie Robinson. That's because of prolonged, and I'm a Southern University. That's because the Bayou Classic became the linchpin game for the black college football nation. And it's because they had the single greatest coach in black football history. Eddie Robinson from Gremlin, but from Baton Rouge, Eddie Robinson, like, from Gremlin,

he had us on TV on national TV way before anybody came to Jackson State. I'm not saying that Dion Sanders, I'm not saying anything about Coach Prime. What I'm saying is that in order to do something and change something on the HBCU level, you have to change things systemically. Absolutely. Or you have to be there long enough to leave a legacy that actually leads to change. Even the recruiting, Dionne Sanders has a podcast on Barstool. NIL is now going on, right?

there's a bar still NIL deal that helps Travis Hunter get to Jackson State, that's cool. So Travis Hunter, who could have gone anywhere, right? Go to Jackson State because NIL helps and get to Jackson State. The NIL deals that Dion Sanders can leverage because of its celebrity to help people get to Jackson State. The other schools don't have that. Is there a SWAC NIL collective? Have there been other NIL collectives at other schools that have been started? Has there been anything that's gone outside of Mississippi?

Like, the conversation is great. And the fact that he was getting all of these recruits are great. And the attention. And the attention is great. But what I'm talking about right now is what I'm from, we're three generations deep in loving Southern University. Yeah. And the Boombox Challenge, the Boombox Classic, should I say,

when we play Jack, that's going to be a big deal, matter what. Jackson State was selling out all of their games set attendance records two years before Dionne Sanders got there. I believe that. So, so what I'm not saying in any way that it, it wasn't a meaningful time. But what I'm saying, I think, I think people are, in my opinion, overestimating or underestimating what HBCU culture is. We cared about our football, about our athletes, about all of those things. And if he'd have done something to make it easier for the rest of those schools to go grab money, if he'd have stayed long enough for there to be some kind of bit TV contract that everybody could chop it up, then...

But that was never his goal. But I... So then I don't think, why are we talking about everything that he did for the HBCUs? Well, the question, the thing was that he doesn't done what he did at Jackson State. It's like he did nothing for HBCUs in general. I'm not denying the culture that exists within HBCUs. When you talk about three generations and you talk about Bayou Classic or in Texas, we got the Grimlin PV game that happens right every year before Texas OU. Like, I get that culture. I understand all of that.

What I'm saying is because of what he did at Jackson State and the attention. The attention is the big thing to focus on there. It became, Jackson State as an HBCU became a national conversation outside of generations of going to these games and this culture. It brought attention in a way that it never did to an HBCU. and I think that's a conversation that outside, outside of what we do,

I guess that's just my point. I will go ahead and say, I will concede and agree that. You're right. He really didn't do everything for HBCUs out there. Like he didn't, not systemic change, but I don't think you can deny

the attention and the conversation that was being had. I mean, a college game day was there, for goodness sake. That's a national, that crosses over into PWI world. I get it.

I feel. Cross, so it's, you can't deny that. I'm not denying that, but what I'm telling you is all of that stuff came because he was Dion Sanders, right? I know. And so, and so my thing is this. Now we're at a crossroads. We're having a conversation about. No, no, no, no, no.

Not us. Not us. Okay. Not us. I'm talking about the community. We're at a crossroads. The question is what now? And let's have a conversation about this.

Okay. I've heard people say, if you've never donated to an HBC, then you really can't be mad at Coach Prime for going to take another job. Even Charlemagne said that. I told Shawlamee, I disagree with that. I disagree. I think it's unfair to ask people who are economically stressed to be philanthropists. Sure.

So I don't think it's fair to say you can't have a conversation about this unless you've given money to an HBCU. I think that that's unfair to our communities. I think that these HBCUs, like I said, have been owed more money from the states that they are in and have been screwed out of that money, just like black Americans, are owed tons of money, both to me historically and socially and economically, from America and have not seen that money. So you know what we do?

We may do with what we have, right? But I think it's, whereas I don't have any problem with Dionne Sanders taking this job, I think it's important that we learn a lesson from this. And this goes for Dionne or anybody else. If you speak in the language of love, then you're opening people up to have emotions. Agreed.

If you speak in the language of money, then you're opening people up to consume. If I tell you right now, I'm giving you something because it's the best deal for you and I expect to be paid back, well, then you're going to do what you can do to pay me back, right? This is a business relationship.

But if I tell you, then I'm doing something for you because I love you, if I tell you I'm doing something for you because of a cultural bond, then if I come to you and be like, when am I getting my shit back,

you're going to be like, well, I thought it was for the love. It was all love, yeah. I thought it was for the love. So when we're having conversations and we use the word culture or we say something that's for the culture, we have to understand what culture means. Culture means a shared experience

a shared bond. Culture means love. So if you're doing it for the culture, you're doing it for the love. Yes. If you're at a place and you're saying, I'm going to make this a big deal

and then I'm going to leave and go do something. You don't even have to say you're going to leave and do something else. Because Dionne Sanders was always very upfront about this, right? If you tell black people

you love them and you're there for them because you love them, they expect that love to me more than money. They expect that love to be the, thing that is enduring. So if it's not for the culture, and I'm not saying, and Dion was very, he was up front

about this, but at the same time, when he first came there, he's like, this is what I'm going to do here. I'm going to show God led me to this place. You know what I mean? He did. He did. God led me to this place. And I think he confused people a little bit.

And I think the, the people who don't know sports. Well, yeah. I mean, remember now, for me, I remember Nick Sabin losing his job with my. with Miami and saying, I will not be the head coach of Alabama. Not going to happen. Yes, he did. And then guess what happened? He became the head coach at Alabama.

So I'm not going to take the people that are upset about this. I'm not going to take their right to be upset away. I'm not mad. I'm happy. Get out. Well, you're happy for selfish reasons. Get out. You're happy for yourself.

Get your ass out. Coach Prime is a leader of men. He is. the great man, go build Colorado. Take all of that crazy shit is SC's problem now. It's USC's, is UCL, they're going to the big team.

Pack 12. It's Oregon's problem now. It's Arizona State's problem now. Get out of Baton Rouge. I will just say that I do understand him being defensive how people are like, you're not, you know, basically you're not for black people.

They were accusing him, they were accusing him of not being for black people. And he was saying, just because I'm leaving doesn't mean I don't support black people. And he's right. Now, let's keep it real. I love Dionne Sanders. But let's play Dionne Sanders. Donnie, do you have the sound of Dion Sanders?

Which part? Of Dion Sanders in his press conference when he was hired by Colorado. Do you have that sound? Yeah, I got that. Play that real quick. You've made a tremendous impact of the HBCUs. I guess how difficult was a decision to leave what you started there? Tremendous because it wasn't about the X's and O's or the wins and losses.

It was about those kids. It was about looking at the faces of those kids knowing that I'm being ready. God is getting ready to elevate me. I'm sorry. God is getting ready to elevate me. Usually a coach is terminated or elevated. Thank God I'm elevated. But still the journey is not complete.

Some of the things that we accomplished there about bringing understanding and notoriety to certain falsities or non-committal things that are done at Power 5s, maybe God is using me to be the catalyst to make you think and to make you just fathom another way to to make us feel unthreatened when someone of the other ethnicity is approaching to just make us feel good about today. Maybe God is really using me to open doors at this level. The thing that alarms me the most is just because I'm leaving Jackson, they think that I'm leaving African Americans. I don't know if you notice it not, but I'm black. I can never leave who I am, what I am, and how I am and how I go about being that. So it is still my task to look in that locker room and see 65 to 70% of African American men trying to help them get to the next level as well as all the others.

No, keep it going, Donnie. My calling is for young men, young women, and people of all walks of life, all social climbers, and all ethnicities. Cut it off right there. Yo, I don't like that. I love Dionne Sanders so much. I am happy for Dionne Sanders. I am proud of Dion Sanders. When I hear people say

my calling is for everyone of all races, that's great. That's amazing. What about these niggas, though? I'm serious. Think about that. Think about that. So let's really think about that.

Now, I know what he had to say. That's what I was going to say. So I know what he had to say. But this is the problem that people have sometimes. I know what. what he had to say. What he had to say in that situation is there are a lot of black people in this in this locker room at Colorado. Yes. And there's also there's white people. So I'm here for everyone. Exactly. You're leaving a place where the black people didn't have any water.

Yes. They have different needs and stuff like that. I'm not saying that he can't do what he should. and he's going to have great success. But that's alienating to people. It's not the same. Like one, there's a, you have to have a calling on your life to make your life about black people. Because if you have the calling on your life is about the people who don't have the money to repay you for what it is you're doing. You have to care more and love more. So when I heard that, I was just like, God damn, that's a little all-wise matter to me.

Absolutely not. Now, that's a reach. No, if he hadn't, if he had said that and he wasn't in, if he had said that in front of his Jackson State players, different conversation. You already pointed it out. He had to say that he was being inclusive because he's about to join a team where they're not all black. If he had said, if he had done that whole speech and he didn't talk about being black and being for black people, like how can people say I'm not for black people? I mean, I don't like when he was like, I am black. I don't like that kind of stuff. That's the part I didn't like. just because you're black doesn't mean you're for black people

as I whisper to you, Clarence Thomas. That means that doesn't necessarily mean that. We can keep naming people for that. But to say that that's all lives matter, that's not what that was. He is about to lead a team full of people that don't all just look like him. He couldn't just say he's only for black people in that moment.

He brought it up. In that moment, he couldn't say that. Rachel, he brought that up. He said, like, they're saying I'm not for black people. It's still a bunch of young black men in there. The end. Like, to me, it's still a bunch of young black men in there. The end.

The end. Okay, it's not all lives matter, though. It didn't. To be honest with you, it didn't need to come because I'm not just for black people. I'm from all. As he's coaching this team, I knew. You already gave the disclaimer. You know what he was saying.

Hey, the end. And so what I'm saying is, even for, and the only reason why it happened to prime, once again, love Coach Prime. The only reason why that happened to him is because his tongue is a little twisting and what it is that he's trying to say. I know that Dionne Sanders is for black people. I know that Dionne Sanders is a proud black man

who loves black people and all of that. What I'm saying is I don't think he understood. I didn't understand. And sometimes people don't understand what it means when you've talked. told people that you are going to be devoted and dedicated to, like, elevating the black cultural experience. That means sacrifice.

That means sacrifice. And I'm not sure he said that when he was coming into Jackson State. But for some reason, people believed it. Do you think that he didn't sacrifice anything? Not really. Was this the first time that he was offered a head coaching job? I mean, I don't know. But, like, by the way.

No. You have no idea. By the way, he did sacrifice because. Yes, he did. So let me tell you. But like to me, I'm not getting on him for not sacrificing. Dionne Sanders wanted to be a head coach. He showed that he could be a college head coach.

He coached Jase for what, three years. And so now he's going, it happens. I'm not saying I have no issue with that. It happens at other places all the time. I can name a bunch of other examples of coaches that get there, leave before graduating class happens. Yeah. What I'm saying is that if you look at people and you feel like they believe,

or they have the feeling, that you are there because you love them, just know that leaving them will injure them, especially if you say, I'm elevating. So what Coach Eddie Robinson from Alabama A&M, I think you know it's Alabama State, what what Coach Eddie Robinson was saying when he was saying that he's swag, when you swack, you don't believe that a PWI is elevation. I get, I think he's all the wrong wording.

I agree. When you swag, being there, being Eddie Robinson, being Pete, being coach Doug, being whoever who have been at these schools are long enough time, that's fulfilling in your life enough. Like that,

that is a big enough. thing for you if you swat. Doug left. Didn't Doug leave? Well, no, no. Doug went to the commanders. Well, he just think about Doug. I'm just saying.

Like, he just thinking about Doug. He threw his name out there. Doug's first job in coaching wasn't with grammar. Doug came to Graham. Okay, but you just threw his name out there. Doug couldn't be Southern. I'm just saying.

Doug couldn't beat Southern. So they was kind of not on Doug. Doug. But you know what? Doug left. You know what? Doug came back. Well, didn't they let him go?

Okay, let's just get the story right And I like Doug Williams That was some other shit My people live close to Gremlin Shout out to Homer Louisiana Shout out to Homer, that was some other shit And look, there's some shit that's going to go on If you're at

So all I'm saying is this I want people to understand, man The SWAC HBCU football HBCU's is bigger than one guy We've been here And can I just say, as a person who did not go to HBCUs.

I have to give it. I have to give a shout out to my parents. Because the only reason that I can say, say, oh, I went to the Grambling PV game is because when we were young, every year, we went to the state fair and went to the game. So even though we went, I went to a PWI, my parents made sure that we had an experience. Maybe not the full, but unexperienced. Alabama State, the Hornets. Coach Eddie Robinson, Jr. is 52 years.

You're like, Mother, do you see what I do? They didn't even acknowledge it. You're just going to do pretty hair like that while she's right here? I love pretty hair. You ain't swag, Rachel. I know I'm not swag. And I never quite too. So people are mad about this too.

I want to play the halftime show. I thought this was amazing. I will play the halftime show from the Southern Jackson State game. And this is how we get down. Donnie played. And my favorite part of it was. Like, Coach Prime about to be Big Ball He said that right after

This is what we do We diss We talk that shit You go to the Bayou classy Go to the boombox Is we talking shit We don't Like we

It's love but not like I got a lot of respect for Jackson I had so much fun in Jackson I was in strip clubs in Jackson When I was 16, 18 years old It's bring your own beer people walking in with E&J bottles. You know what I mean?

It's like it's a real nigger shit going on. I've been all over the place. I've been to the Southern Heritage's Classy in Tennessee. We've been to these games. We got our own shit. Like we got our own shit. And I would love to have conversations about how we're going to elevate HBCUs. But those conversations are multifaceted.

They're systemic. And they have much. more to do than having those conversations about one guy. It's not one guy's fault that the HBCU would be elevated and it's not going to be one guy's fault that the HBCU, yeah, that it's not. True. So, last thing I'll say about Dion is this is less anger than it is pain. People hurt, they sad. Let them be hurt and sad.

I think people were shocked. People love Coach Prime. Especially too because he was like, that's just a rumor out there. I'm not, I didn't say I was going. I didn't go anywhere. And then literally the next day he's. I'm going to go on to Colorado. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech.

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reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust spectrum business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Rachel, what does woke mean? I don't subscribe to that word. You don't subscribe to woke?

No, people have taken that and run away with it. Do you know what happened with the word woke? What happened? Who got a hold of it? White people reversed inward at us. Pretty hair-degree. Pretty hair-regris with me. So woke is the new N-word.

White people. You know how we took the N-word and made it something good? White people took Woke and made it something bad. They've never been able to successfully do this before. This is with the word. With the word. This is an unabashed victory of white. I got to give it up.

Is white people won the Woke War of that word? Because woke meant literally you are of and about progress and change. That's what it meant. That's what it meant. And now even black people use the word woke pejoratively. White people have never had success in taking a word that we said and changing it around. We're the ones who take words that they say and change them around and make them good or bad. This is their first victory.

Do you use it? Do you use it and say like woke in the way that they do? No, I, sometimes. Sometimes when I'm poking fun at the Midnight Boys, I'd be like, yo, man, get that woke bullshit out of there. When someone's going too far, like, and it's, it's now, Jay Cole helped in this too, because Jay Cole said, niggas said they woke, but they broke. It got a little bit, but now, woke is definitely a pejorative now. The woke mob, the woke left. You can't even, we don't even say it anymore.

What did Chris, the woke police? The woke police. So now we know what it means. Governor Ron DeSantis, his answer is for us, Governor Ron DeSantis. The Republicans only hope in 2024. Feral Judge on Thursday press attorneys for Republican Florida, Governor Ron DeSantis to explain why the governor's recent suspension of a state prosecutor he viewed as woke

wasn't an unlawful and politically motivated overreach of executive authority. Jean-Jacques. Cabo. Cabo. Wow. What a fucking $15 name is that? Jean Jacques.

Jean Jacques is his name. Jean Jacques. Jacques. Jaquoise? Jacques. Jean Jocques? Cabo? Cabo?

Cabo? Cabal. This is Cabal. I don't know. We don't know. Andrew Warren's attorney noted that DeSantis referred to Warren in his announcement of the suspension as a woke ideologue

who masqueraded as a prosecutor. He then asked some dissentists officials what woke means to him. Taryn Fiski, the Santis communication director, says woke was the slang term for activism, progressive activism, and a general belief in the systemic injustices in the country. To me, it means someone who believes that there are systemic injustices in the criminal justice system, and on that basis, they can decline to fully enforce and uphold the law. We're in such a scary time. So if you believe that there are systemic injustices in the law, which this government, Ron DeSantis's daddy, his political father, even Donald Trump, even apparently believes because he signed his name on the first step act.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So by we're on DeSantis' definition, Trump is woke, Jared Kushner is woke, everyone is woke. Believing that they're systemic injustices in these, that means that you're woke and that's bad. Rachel, DeSantis, your candidate, the guy who you want to be president. What are you, what do you make of the war over the war woke? Well, I think it's just a term that people use so loosely now, as you just stated, everybody's, woke at some point, right? But I'm looking for this. I'm trying to look for this because he does

say that even though who is this Ryan Newman is the one who said the definition that you just said of what woke is, they said that DeSantis, however, doesn't believe that there are systemic injustices in the U.S. That's so incredibly dense and wild. Not one. What did you how did that did you text her? Huh. Hey you. Natalie, how are you?

This is Natalie Nunn from the Zeus Network baddies who is calling us. Hey, Nat, how you doing? Good. How are you? So Natalie, I'm on the podcast right now. First of all, we have to have you on the podcast because we're having a, we had an incredible argument over the Zeus network earlier. What? Can I ask you a question, Natalie?

Yes. Do you think... Does she know she's on the podcast? She knows she's on the podcast. Natalie, do you think that the Zeus network is any more or less exploitive of black people than Bravo or VH1 or any of those other places? I've been with all, I've worked with all the networks. I mean, I'm 15 years into television, reality TV. And, no, they're not anymore.

they're not exploiting the culture anymore. They all are doing the same thing. Exactly. And to be honest, if you want me to be quite frank, you know, Zeus is actually a black-owned network. Boom! I think that makes it worse, Natalie. How are you going to be mad?

Boom! That makes no sense. Like, I would feel like braw of the other networks and I know the people who work and are the head of those networks, you know, they're exploiting the culture. African Americans, black people, you know. Because they're not even black. They're not black.

That's what I said. Rachel. They do as well, Natalie. I think it makes it worse when we're doing it to our own culture. I would love for you to come on this podcast and talk about it. I think it's worse. I mean, I don't understand that because it's really what the people want to see anyways. That's what we know.

The thing is this, like, as an African American woman in this industry and being in the reality TV game for so long, Like, is going, at least when we go into the editing day and the shows are edited, it's edited in the real way of being like, you know, a black woman in, like, this world that we live in this universe. Where, like, I used to look back at some of the things on the Bad Girls Club just say per se when I'm on their network. And I'm like, that is not how that went. And you guys made me look super like angry black woman. And that's like not cool. Yeah. Where now, at least in being with a network that is me, I walk into the office,

and I'm looking at people that I can relate to, and they know people like me because they're black, they're not going to end up me to look like, quote, unquote, say, the angry black woman or the, you know, whatever it is. So, no, like, I feel way more comfortable working over here at Juice Network. I'm not going nowhere. Anyways, I got the hottest shows out with them. Hottest. But Natalie. But Natalie.

But Natalie. What are you fighting on some of these shows? I mean, they don't fight on all these shows. They fighting on all these shows or fighting on Bravo Housewives, fighting on Bravo, Dubai. What do you mean?

Like, they fighting. They are fighting on Bravo, Dubai. They are physically fighting. And like, we've done, Zeus has done all of the shows across the board. Comedy show. We're not the only shows on Zeus. They have hundreds of shows if you download Zeus.

And it just so happens that these loud shows are the shows that the culture and the people want to watch and see, we can't control that. Well, you can't control that. People want to watch that. Natalie, this is why I said earlier. We was talking about it. I said,

Natalie should come on. Me and Rachel had a difference of opinion because I said, I think it's better because Zeus is run by black people. Yeah, I'm way more comfortable over here. Yeah. I mean, I hate to say it. And I'm mixed. I'm mixed race.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Are you black? I'm losing. I used to get upset when I would watch things on oxygen. because I was like, that is not how that went. And I cannot believe you guys edited that or made it to look like poor little, you know, like if I got into it would say a Caucasian girl on the show. Like it was not poor her.

She spit on me first. Like weird shit that they would weigh the way they would, you know, manipulate the audience. Like where now like, no, I feel safe over here. Like they're not about to play me. They're not about to make me look like, no. And anyways, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, why would we allow them to capitalize off of our culture? Like I'd rather Zeus and Lemmy and the owners over here make money off of our culture and keep the money in-house

Like you know within our own people Why are we gonna keep giving all these other networks the bad girls club or whatever it is like you know They're just making all this money off of their stars that are all African-American and this is nah bro We took that shit we brought it over here We're running it the fuck up we number 10 we ask for right we don't see no none of these other networks So it is what it is Like we keep in that shit over here now That's what I'm talking about

Natalie come on the show Natalie come on the show Tell Jacob I'm a dunk on his ass Yeah we even bring Lenny the owner Bring Lemmy I'll bring Mr. Plummer I'll bring some of the other baddies So that you can hear from all of them

Oh And let's do it Natalie It's a phone call just call Don't get in trouble Don't get in trouble Natalie bring all the baddies On the show

We want a baddies We're here in LA now Oh We should have just let me know We're all you guys got a special event on higher learning. Natalie Nunn is coming with Lemmy and all the girls from Baddies West.

Thank you for the call. I love you guys. I love you, too. Thanks, Natalie. Bye Nat. Been known that for years all the way back to TMZ days. I was a fan when I watched her on the Bad Girls Club. I thought she's so, she's so entertaining.

She's very fun to watch. Okay. So you were saying, so we've lost the woke war. Essentially, the War of the Word woke. This is. But is there a war over the World War? I think it's just, I wouldn't say there's a war in the sense of how using the word, right? Like, you're right.

They've taken over the word. That's fine. I think what was shocking was this admission of what the word means and then the admission of, but we don't believe that there are any systemic injustices in the U.S. I don't think anybody, we've lost the meaning of the word woke. What does it mean now, man? I think it's open to interpretation based on who's using it. That's how, that's how, that's how bad it is right now.

when we use that, when we throw that word around. Can I be honest with you, though, there is a troubling trend here, though, of the far right to be able to do something that in the past they weren't able to do. Correct. Which is actually have a sort of cultural hold over terms. If we think about it, right? Oh, they've done it again. Think about it.

What, what? Oh my gosh, it was in my head. Defund the police. Defund the police. So think about this. So when we think about the rights ability, their cultural ability to depower some of the things that we say or come up with their own things.

Defund the police was hijacked. Woke was hijacked. But not only that, Trump and the right came up with their own sayings, fake news. every time somebody says I watch people score a touchdown and they gritty right you know the gritty right so whenever somebody gritties

they on LSU dick the way I look at it we started the gritty so like whenever I see somebody gritty whenever I see somebody gritty I think yo that's LSU shit whenever you use the term fake news you are parroting something from Donald Trump

and something that Donald Trump used to part and parcel depower the freedom of the press in the United States, right? Mm-hmm. So, and even MAGA, it was make everything great again. It was make this great again. It was make that great again.

My homeboy had Hass who's doing his make Crenshaw great again. Make Grand Rouge great again. Make all of this stuff great. Like, all it, they've never really been able to have a hold in pop culture like they have now. And it's interesting that there's a sort of weird cultural power to the right that didn't exist before. It's true. almost a weird, perverted, cool factor. Well, take what Dave Chappelle said.

I feel like I was on this conversation with him on. What Dave Chappelle said Trump did in that debate, it was so shocking because he admitted to all the things that we thought, you know, was happening in the government, that we thought those with power were doing. He admitted it and then he said, not only are they doing it, I know they're doing it because I do it too,

It was such a shock that he said it out loud, right? The quiet part out loud or whatever that people bought into that. And that was part of his charm, if I say so, because he was saying things that people were too afraid to say. He wasn't playing the game in the same way. That became cool. To me, that's what started that trend. And that's why they liked them. That's troubling because now when you take a word and you read, you sort of reconfigure.

figure it what it means. Now, if you at all look at systemic injustice, it's something that you can lose your job for. In Florida. In Florida, it's something that you can lose your job. If you have a belief, that is breathtaking. If you have a belief that there are systemic injustices inside of the American court system, you can lose your job for it. That is breathtaking. I mean, even the way that it's defined. Suspension as a woke. Where did I read that? Where was that? What was that reading? Ideologue who masqueraded as a prosecutor. Yeah. This is the person who went to law school, took a bar, passed it. Took a bar. Took the bar, passed it, is a sworn officer of the court, and this is how you're

changing a definition of who they are just because they believe in systemic injustice. Donnie, what did you, let's take a break real quick. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you?

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what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Colehouser returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait

as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch, willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. we're back. Donnie, what, what did you put in the, the, what did you put about a coon? Oh, yeah.

There's new audio from who. Rersh Walker. What? Talking about, uh, it's not such a bad thing being called a coon. Cool. Wow. I want to hear it. I don't believe it.

I don't believe. I don't believe. I play the audio. Play the audio. They called me a coon the other day. And people think that was a bad turn as a guy's on front of country. If you know anything about a coon, you want of the smartest. animals out there.

They call me a coot. Are they? This nigga can't be real, y'all. He's not okay. We've already established that. He's not okay. Herschel Walker or robot, man. There's like, Herschel Walker, I'm telling you, bro.

They press play. Wait, wait. Hershawker not real, man. I don't believe this. I really want, you know how all of those maybe cloning people? This can't be real, man. Played again, Donnie?

right right it called me a coon the other day and people think that's a bad turn as a guy's on

front of the country if you know anything about a coon you're one of the smartest animals out there that's not real that's not real man

that's not real like between that him moon walking to the crossroads that might be my favorite Russell Walker that's not real

man there's no way even the way it sounds Donnie played again raccoon they say it's a croon They say They say

Run it again That is a bad thing Call me a coon the other day And people think that's a bad turn That's a guy on front of country If you know anything about a coon You're one of the smartest animals out there They are smart

Are they? Look I've hunted raccoons before I looked it up They have a high IQ But that's not the point Just because it's smart But see But see we got to watch out

We got to watch out, though. That's not why they call us Coons, Herschel. They'll change the name. They'll change it, and it'll be Coons will be something good. This is where it starts. Ground zero. Right here. Before you know it, Herschel.

What are you mean? Whitlock everywhere. It'll be like, they'll have a t-shirt with a coon with a graduation cap on. Should we get a hold of? P. What I was saying? Should we get a hold of this word? Should we try to take a hold of this word?

Should we try to take a hold of a shirt? take control of this before? Should we try to make Coon good? Should we try to take control of this? Guys, if you don't know, that's not why they called us Coons. By the way, I'm sorry. Donnie got absolutely zero smoke for saying that he liked the Herschel Walker dance. Y'all just did not care.

Like, I was expecting people to be like, Donnie can do no wrong on the podcast. No, they love Donnie. Donnie can do no wrong. Donnie said that Herschel Walker, Moonwalking was in. Deering. Did you not say that? I did. I did. Rachel just said that it was one of her favorite. It was her favorite Hurtwalker video.

And I agree. There's not much to choose from. It's not because of the day. I mean, between the vampires and the werewolves to the fright fest or whatever it was to the Coons. And I just, I don't. It's like it completes the

Georgia. Bingo. He's done like all of the things that you could be. Coon bingo. All the stereotypes. He's danced. He's done the whole night. All right. I want to talk about this real quick.

We didn't cover this. But the Will Smith movie Emancipation came out. It's a movie about a slave that just runs around a plantation, smacking the shit out of other slaves. And it stars Will Smith. Don't tell people that. He's all. he's all, he's not right since the Hershey Walker clip.

He's all, he's messed up. That was just like a slave. Running around and play, they're smacking the shit out of other slaves. Stop talking about me, chicken George. No, it's about a very famous picture.

The movie, um, is a slave man known as Peter, inspired a, inspired the film. A picture of his back that you've all seen. That's his story

about how that changed everything. So, Joy McFarlane is one of the producers of this. He walked the red carpet with the original photo of this enslaved man, saying that he wanted this enslaved man

to be at the premiere as well. Run the audio, Donnie. Tell me how you came to own the photo and why it was important for you to once you did oh yes i i have the photo this is the original photograph from 1863 and i wanted it to be here tonight i wanted a piece of peter to be here tonight sadly it's sadly to say so many artifacts and photographs have not been preserved or curated or respected. And I took it upon myself to curate and build a collection for future generations.

You know, my collect, I've been collecting for, you know, a very long time. My collection will be donated at the end of my life for educational purposes. And it's something I just want to give back. Okay. So you guys have seen this photo before, Gordon or whipped Peter. is a black man's name. His back is scarred up the extensive cheloid scarring on his back. I'm looking at the photo now.

This pisses me the fuck off. This gentleman, the producer, owns the photo. And Peter's story is going to be told in the movie Emancipation, which I think is interesting that this man, will now become more than a photo and more than a relic of American brutality and will become an actual person with an actual story. People know my disdain for slave movies, but if you're going to make one, I think humanizing someone that we've only seen in photograph form is important to do. Obviously, this piece people off. Well, because for the exact thing, what you just said is the exact opposite of what Joey McFarlane did on the carpet.

Right. He turned him right back into a thing. into a piece of art when the entire purpose of you being on that carpet was to tell a story, as you said, a real life story of something that happened to someone, like you said, we've seen this picture.

We didn't know what happened behind it. And by you doing that, this is one carpet, I wish I would have worked. I wish he would have whipped that out in front of me. It would have been a... Poor choice of words there. It really was. Please take that out.

No, leave it. Oh, my gosh. Oh, no. Donnie, leave it. I'm using, I think we should have one thing on the podcast. We should be able to use one leave it per month. We should be able to use one leave it per month. Gotta leave it.

I'm gonna cry. Got to leave it. I'm upset. I haven't been right after the Herschel Walker record. Gotta leave it. Oh my gosh. No, but that's the problem. And it is great that, you know, I don't know the story.

I'm very honest, I will not see the movie. I don't want to see it. I'll see it eventually. I've never seen 12 years of sleep. I don't want to see it. But I do think it's important to, as you said, humanize. But I also think that what happened here, and I'm glad that this interview went viral. I should say that Joey has since apologized. I'm a reith apology right now. Please go ahead and read now. I wholeheartedly apologize to everyone. I've offended by bringing a photograph of Peter to the emancipation premiere.

My intent was to honor this remarkable man and to remind him and to remind the general public that his image not only brought about change in 1863, but still resonates and promotes change today. Throughout the research and development of emancipation, I discovered photographs of overlooked and historically important individuals whose stories also need to be told. My plan was always to donate the photographs to the appropriate. institution and in consultation with the community. And I believe there is no better time to begin that process. It just muddies the water because you're obviously making money. You want the story out there, but you're obviously making money off of it as a producer. And you talk about all this other art that you have, this slave art, it seems, that you possess.

That it's great if you do tell the story behind it, but you're also making money off of it. And then you bring this picture and you're talking of it as a prop, right? rather than Peter as a human. And it just makes me question, what's the real motive behind it? I'm sorry that I'm doing that. But that's just how I feel when I saw the way that you pulled that photo out

to discuss Peter as if he wasn't a human being and as a piece of art. It just mightied it for me. Let me talk to white people for a second. Hope that they hear me. White people, we have a sneaking suspicion. We have a sneaking suspicion. Not all of us.

Obviously, Kurtzher Walker doesn't feel the same way. But some of us have a sneaking suspicion that you guys feel like you own us. Some of us have a sneaking suspicion that you feel like everything great that we've ever done, everything that we've ever accomplished, everything that we've ever done, everything that we've ever done, everything that we've ever overcome is based on your benevolence and that we don't exist if you don't shine your light on us that we don't have any light

that we are in fact reflections of you and every time we think that you don't feel that way you do something almost in a reflexive way to show us that you do. Joy McFarlane doesn't think what he did was bad. Right.

He didn't think it. He was proud. He was proud, right? He had a picture of a slave walking around showing it to people. In that instance, he reminded me of an owner or an overseer. Joey McFarland said that in the event of his death, that the picture would go to a museum. You guys, if you know anything about slavery,

you'd know that masters freed slaves after they died. For your entire life, I own you, and then when I'm gone, you can go do whatever you want. I don't understand the dissonance that exists. exists sometimes with the white counterparts that we share our community with. To walk around with that photo parading that pain around, that dude can't come to the premiere, he's dead. His pain can't come to the premiere. It's been lived.

You don't own that. You don't own that experience. That's not for you. that's not for you that's not something for you to have hoard collect our experiences our pain who we are we're not collections of white people

we're our own people and every time we try to get some some breathing room between you guys every time we try to do something you reel us back in now the movie's on some weird fetish shit just like you said like I really

want white people to understand something you don't don't own us. Yeah. Like you don't like our experiences who we are, what we are. That's not for y'all. Like we got our own shit. We are our own people.

And you know who else needs to understand that? We need to understand that. Yeah. Yeah. That we don't just matter when white people are paying attention. That we matter when they sleep. We matter when they trying to dance. Like we matter all of all of that.

We matter on our own. And like this, I looked at this and I'm, I'm, watching the video and I'm aghast the ignorance that it would take for you to think that that was all right. I'm just aghast. I'm like... You know why? Because he's done it before and nobody said anything. Why would you want to collect slave shit?

The fact that he has that is very, very, very... That is for a museum or for... That's not for some dude to have in his home. Look at this picture. It's white savior mentality. That's what that is. Yeah, well, you can only save something that's weaker than you.

Okay, look, we got to get out of here pretty soon, but we got to do one more. No. We do. Which one? What do you think? I thought we had a mountain lion situation here. Donnie, we don't have a mountain lion system. No, just animals, not mountain line.

No, yeah, it's a coyote and a raccoon situation. Coyote and a raccoon situation. I don't care about that. I want to talk about either one of those. What I want to talk about is a mountain lion name Rose. Donnie, did you see this? Donnie, give me my prompt. It's time to talk about something.

Wait, where does she come from? She wasn't on the... I saw the most amazing story that I thought warrior sent me about a little baby mountain lion named Rose. Rose was orphaned. she was supposed to be around 30 pounds she was only like eight pounds when they found her she was dehydrated she was malnutrition somebody found this little baby mountain lion took her to a zoo and started nourishing her and she's on her way back and i want to send some good vibes out to rose the mountain lion

now she's not going to be able to go back into the wild because she had to learn some survival skills from her mother and she didn't have them. She doesn't have them now. She's here in California. So this got me thinking about the conversation that we're going to have with the zoo person and the anti-Zoo person. If not for the zoo, baby rose the mountain lion who I might want to buy. Okay.

Baby Rose the mountain lion might have not survived. This changed my zoo perspective a little bit. Well, you hear what you just said? Who I might want to buy. Yeah. That goes against everything that you've been saying, Mountain Lion, the fact that you're going to purchase and then domesticate the Mountain Lion.

First of all, I'm not going to purchase the Mountain Lion, but I would want to have a Mountain Lion. And if I was going to have a Mountain Lion, it would be a Mountain Lion that couldn't live out in the wild. If she can't live out in the wild, she's got to have a home. She can't live out in the wild. Rachel She was about to call you

Because I was about to call you Ebony Because me and Evony She can't live out in the wild Rachel because she doesn't have The survival skills She has to have somebody take care of her And if I had a big enough place You know what I mean

I would be tempted to have Rose As a part of my family You know but I'm not going to I don't believe in Captive Mount Lion I don't But you want to see a picture of Rose.

No, I'm okay. Oh, because your heart is hardened towards Mountain Lion. And I think that it's only right, hold on, Rose the Mountain Lion. I think it's only right, Rose Mountain Mountain Lion. Mount Lion Cub. Oh, look at this. Rachel, you can't tell me. You can't tell me.

Look at Rose. Oh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. She's so cute. Do you remember the lions above my, this whole time I've been dissing Mountain Lion and then I'm like, I had

those lion cubs above my bed the entire time growing up. So I've had an affinity to them as well and didn't even realize it. Rose is making progress. This is a long time ago. Rose, oh, so this has been a while. Now, Rose is doing great.

This is a long time ago. Where's Rose? Over the summer. She's a Bay Area Cougar. So she's got to, apparently, she's got a friend at the zoo. Roge and Sage are now friends now. Rose is doing just great.

When this was sent to me, when this was sent to me originally, I hadn't looked it up. Like, it may seem like it just happened. Rose has been doing. Rose was filed in April in San Mateo, but she's doing great now. She's got a pal. Look at Roge and Sage. Go. Look at Rose and Sage. They're super cute.

They're best friends. A thought warrior sent that to you that lets me know that what's happening now is thought Warriors are Googling mountain lion stories and you need to stop. Okay. Save the Cougar event happening this month here in LA. I'm going to it. Like, I'm going to it. Van's very serious question of the week.

Is Van's very serious question? Okay. Let's hear it. Okay. All right. I don't have one. I was going to ask you a very serious question of the week, but I have to be honest with you.

I can't ask you the question with pretty hair here. I can't do it. It's like, it's like, I can't ask you the question with Pretty Air here. I'll save it until next week. The question was about something. I can't ask you the question with Priya Harrier. It's a pleasure in a beach for mother.

Take you think caps off. Do not stop my iron family. I'm Rachel Lindsay. Bye, guys.