Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The First American Pope, Plus Met Gala Rankings

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

Van and Rachel discuss the buildup to the selection of the new pope (14:37) and the acquittal of the officers who killed Tyre Nichols (16:46) before shifting gears to the Met Gala and its celebration of Black style (32:43). Then, instant reactions to the announcement of Pope Leo XIV (56:08), a conversation around the lawsuit against Smokey Robinson (59:09), and the discussion on Jayden Daniels’s mom makes a comeback (1:28:30). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Or will he stand tall as the undisputed Godfather of Harlem? Well, you can find out in the new season of Godfather of Harlem, new episodes streaming Sundays on MGM Plus. Yo, yeah, yo, thought warriors. What is up? High Learning is on and is Ivan Lathin Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Are you familiar with cold brew?

Cold brew? Yeah. Like coffee? Yeah, I don't like it. So I'm on a fast, 12 to 6 fast. I go 12 to 6 every day. Nice. I've lost 6 pounds this week on the fast.

What are your hours? 12 to 6. Oh, wait, you're 6 hours and you're only eating 12 to 6. Gotcha, gotcha, got you. 12 to 6 fast. It's very helpful. The 6 o'clock would, are you going to bed earlier? Well, you know what the thing is, is that I realized that it makes sense for me because I go to sleep.

at like, what's up? I go to sleep at like, um, 9 o'clock anyway. You do? Yeah. Every night? Yeah. What time do you wake up? Probably like 6.30?

What? Yeah. If I go to bed before midnight, I'm proud of myself. And I wake up, I wake up no later than seven. Yeah. So I wake up, I go to sleep probably about, from, I go sleep at night. 8.45, 8.45,

8.45, it's time to start winding down. Really? 9, 9.30, out. I did. I never knew this about you. Yeah, done. Done. I can't. My mind, my mind, my mind isn't going to calm down. Out. Done, out.

So I go to sleep. So what I realized is that when I'm eating at 7 or 8, that's way too late because I'm going to sleep. Well, yeah, going to sleep then. So it actually hasn't been that big of a deal for me. But I do need some energy in the morning. So this is iced coffee.

So I get some iced coffee so I don't break the fast, right? Black, no sugar, no nothing. Very little iced coffee, right? It's fine. I'm used to it. Yesterday I got cold brew. And I was tweaking on the midnight boys. It's too much.

What kind of cold brew did you have? Just the cold brew they had in there. I don't like cold coffee. You know? I don't really. We've been through the night. this. I don't really like coffee. I like the routine of getting a coffee.

Like that's hot. I like the smell. I like, yeah. But I can, coffee's like a warm bottle to me. I can drink a cup of coffee and go right back to sleep. There's something that we have to talk about. Higher Learning Science Corner, the two experts in mammalology,

humanology, what would be genetics? This would be genetics. So you know how I was macroeconomist Van Lathen? You're releasing that title? Well, no, I'm adding the title. Oh. I don't release a title.

Okay. Because my knowledge of macroeconomics is vast. Okay. Wow. But I'm adding the title. Geneticist. Man Lathen. You can have it.

I learned something that is fascinating. Men are going extinct. Men going extinct. At what rate? The Y chromosome makes me, is disappearing. And it has been disappearing for the last, according to this, 166 million years. Now, me and Donnie were looking at this. Humans haven't been around for 166 million years.

Donnie was bringing this up. However, in mammals, it seems that the Y chromosome is disappearing, that there is some talk about the rate there of which this is happening. There's some talk about whether it's happening at all, but it seems to be... Whether it's happening at all. It is at least a possibility.

The Y chromosome has lost... Donnie, give me some of the numbers here. You have them? Yeah, they said that the WAC chromosome evolved 180 million years ago. So it's been devolving or going away for almost as long as it's been in existence, which is weird. It says it's undergoing a process of degradation and loss of genes leading to the prediction

that it might eventually vanish entirely in the distant future. Distant future. Distant. I'm saying distant. But this could be millions of years away. Yeah, they say six or seven million. Six or seven million years away. However, if you think about the long term, that means nature is phasing out men.

I have no idea. There might be an alternative theory suggesting that it could persist. Some rodent species have already lost their Y chromosomes and adapted, suggesting that even if the human Y chromosome disappears, we might evolve new mechanisms for sex determination. Because the Y chromosome is what gets in there and, you know, make, you know, you forms the male testes and penis and all of that stuff. But we might formulate something else is what me and my colleagues have been talking about. We might evolve into something else that helps us do that. Sounds like women are the superior being.

I mean, you could say that. I don't care if you say that. But why are men being phased out? Why is nature phasing out men? I mean, six or seven million years is so far away. Who knows what could happen or evolve during that time? you know, the X chromosome could start, you know, devolving. And we could be saying, who knows?

But there's no. Such a far prediction. Like, it's probably not going to happen. But it's, it sounds like it came from truth, social. It's a prediction, but it's something, they're basing it off the gene loss that they're already seeing. So they're not saying that it's going to start in six or seven. But that's why I ask you at what rate. That's fine.

Please. I don't want to be deemed to be a scientist. But at what rate is the Y chromosome? That's what I'm trying to say. Is it even that noticeable? I'm glad you asked. Because there is an answer to that question, okay? The rate is supposedly, it's lost 97% of its original genes shrinking

from approximately 1,600 genes to just 45 to 55 a day. Unlike other chromosomes that can repair damage through recombination with their partners, the Y chromosome stands alone in males, making it vulnerable to mutation and degeneration. Scientists have observed a constant loss rate of nearly 10 genes per million years, which means at that rate might be phased out. If this trend continues, some researchers predict that the Y chromosome could vanish entirely within the next 4.5 to 11 million.

two fascinating possibilities is this. Either the Y chromosome has stabilized and will persist might evolve a new sex determining gene. A new sex, that's interesting. A new sex determining gene.

A new gene to determine. Oh, a new gene. Excuse me. Non-scientists here. Excuse me. All right, well, okay. Listen, last night we went to Beyonce. Thanks to Van.

round two, Van got Kalika tickets. The seats were excellent. Not fucking around. Not right. They were excellent because the first time we went, we sat in a suite and it was great. And looking from where we wore,

I was like, oh, I don't know if I want to be down there. And then we got down to the floor. Yeah. And we had the best time. Shout out to Kalika. Shout out to Layla, who always finds her way to us. Layla knows what to do. And we had a really great time.

Thank you. Here's the thing. Did she do single ladies? Yeah. She did single lady? Yeah. It's very important that Beyonce does. Why?

It is a whimsical and timeless anthem for all people. Why? Single ladies is one of the most important musical achievement. I feel like you're speaking in platitudes. I'm not speaking in platitudes. What I'm saying is that you ask a question, I'm giving you an answer. You ask why is it important? Why do you feel that that's?

That it is that impactful. It's one of those records. The video was more impactful almost than the record. I don't know about that. It could be true. I'm not disagreeing. Because there's a lot of people who make arguments that they don't really care for the song. It was the song coupled with the video that really made it a thing.

When single ladies dropped, it's one of those records that the first time I heard it, I was like, yeah. It's a good sound for her. Go ahead and, is this a new time? title. You're a musical expert as well. Musical expert Van Lathen. It's her signature song. Wouldn't single ladies be Beyonce's signature song or is it

crazy in love? I'm not the one to ask because, you know, I'm new to the hive. But, so I don't know. There's so many because when Formation came on, it was also just like a moment.

I, I, I, okay, well, you're the musical expert. here. I'm new, so I'm not going to answer that question, but it having gone twice on this tour, it was a thing. Single ladies was too, but she didn't do the whole song. I don't think she was a little. So I would say this. If I was to name the five songs, I would pull formation. If I was to name the five songs that would be considered for Beyonce's. Obviously crazy in love, very high up there. Single ladies, I'd say drunken love.

And let me tell you why, I would say drunken love. I would say drunken love because it's the signature song of Beyonce's maturation. Drunken love is the song that was like, oh shit, Beyonce, brand new sound, brand new attitude, brand new, more mature type of subject matter. This is the second wave of Beyonce's writing. So I'd say that would be up there.

Not as big of hit as the other two songs. Formation I'd have to put in there. It's Beyonce getting a little bit more social and it's a big sort of rallying cry. Yeah, it was, I mean, what she says in the song, it was very black.

It was very, the video, everything. That was a new attitude for her too in that moment, I would say. Yeah, you know, I don't have a fifth song. We got to go with one of the, you did crazy in love, but I'm trying to think of,

it's like one of the beginning songs you got to give her. What beginning song? Like she played irresistible. She played Love on Top. I'm trying to think of the throwbacks. Single Ladies was in there. If I were a boy was in there.

A ballot could never be Beyonce's signatures. Did I say Irisistible? Irreplaceable. A ballot could never be Beyonce's signature. We like it when we get turned. According to Billboard, Irreplaceable is her biggest single. That doesn't matter.

I am in the hive. I am in the hive. Hold on. Your biggest single doesn't mean it's your signature song. I'm like very, I'm tiptoeing around giving opinions because I'm new. But Irreplaceable is one of my favorite, and it was such a moment at the concert

because it's almost like a form of empowerment because people are like, like for me, I was like, it's my name that's on that jag. Irreplaceable is to the left to the left, right? Yes. Okay, so that's definitely in the top five. But it's not, I apologize. I apologize.

I apologize. I'm scared to give an opinion because I don't want people to eat me up about it. But it would be in my top five because it feels very personal to me. I was wrong. And you'll see something that will have on this side of the podcast

will never happen on the other side. Actually, it's going to happen later in the show. It's, I was wrong. Irreplaceable is definitely in there. I wouldn't say that irreplaceable is in the top, but you have to put it in there. That's definitely a Beyonce. Donnie, give us what Billboard says.

Billboard says that the fifth biggest one is single ladies. That one was number one for four weeks. Check on it with slim thug. Interesting. Yeah. That was a number for five. It was tied to the movie too.

Hold on for a second. See what I'm saying? That has nothing to do. Nobody's going to say that check on it. I'm just curious. Nobody's going to say that check on it is one of Beyonce's signature. I'm just curious. But crazy and love is number three.

Crazy and love. What else is on there? Probably like Baby Boy. Yeah. And no one's going to say that Baby Boy is a signature because these songs don't matter culturally. But look, drunk in love is probably not even going to be on there. So maybe I'm wrong about that, even though I think it's number 13.

I got other records. I like, I like all kinds of people. I'm glad you guys had a good time. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul PREDICs. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus.

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All right, Donnie, quick hitters. All right, it looks like we got a new Pope. We're a little too early on this. It hasn't been announced who it is. It could happen like literally any moment now if they're having the ceremony, but the white smoke has risen from the Sistine Chapel. 133 voting cardinals,

all who have been sequestered inside the Vatican during the conclave, any one of them needed two-thirds of the vote. to become the next pope. Okay. Now, I'm happy that there's a new pope. My family is Catholic back there in Maryland, Louisiana. Shout out to everybody else. They're probably very happy about this.

A very prominent cardinal presided over my father's funeral. They told me he was prominent. I have no idea who he was. But so it's a big deal. However, I did see something that was interesting about this. What? I saw that the cardinal, were watching Conclave

to kind of get into how they were doing this. Donnie, check that out. They watched the movie? They were watching Conclave. Do they need to do that? I don't think that they should need to do that. Where did you see that? Donnie, did I make this up?

Were the Cardinals watching Conclave to help them in this whole process? Is that a thing? I saw that. Yeah, it looks like political reported that they watched it for guidance. They watch, they watch, Conclave for guys, what does that tell you?

It tells me that they watched it for fun. You think they would just watch it having a... It tells me it was an excuse for them to do something. Have a little break. Have a little, you know, little escape. They watched it for fun. Come on now. There are Cardinals in the mix who've been through this before.

They watched it for fun. Well, I mean, look, I tell you something, if the Cardinals want to really have a hoot and watch something for fun, they should watch Spotlight. That's a lot of fun. I knew you were going to... I could think of the name of the movie,

but I knew you were going to... go there. If the Cardinals want to watch a really fun movie that they should pay attention to shit. If you really want to watch a phone one, check out Spotlight. That's a lot of fun. All right. Donnie? All right. To Darius Bean, Demetrius Haley, and Justin Smith were found not guilty on all state charges in the fatal beating of Tyree Nichols after he ran away from a traffic stop. The three defendants, they still faced the prospect of prison after they were convicted of federal charges last year, though in that instance, they were also acquitted of the more serious

charges as well. Okay, what type of prison are we looking at for these three guys? And what was the name of that was the Scorpion Task Force that they were a member of, right? Memphis's high crimes, or excuse me, major crimes division, I think was called the Scorpion division. Yeah, I can't remember that. They beat the hell out of this man, beat him the death. Beat him to death.

So, Donnie, look up their federal charges and see what kind of time they're still looking at. An all-white jury brought in from another place, a nine-day trial, took place in Memphis, which is majority black. So it doesn't seem as if this was a jury of their immediate peers that made this decision. How's that work? Well, if they feel like the jury pool

or who they're picking from is going to be prejudiced or they're not going to get a fair trial, then this is when they will go outside of it. Remember, like with OJ, they were trying to do that. They were saying, oh. They did do it. The trial was in Seamy Valley. It was?

Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah, the trial was in Seamy Valley. But anyways, that's what they do if they feel like that they're not going to get a fair trial. But to go so far, I think it was like five hours away, and then to have an all-white jury, I'm looking at the prosecution. Like, how did you even allow this to happen? How in the world did you, was it?

Wrong. I'm getting confused. That's why I was like, I'm almost positive. Van, you are not an expert at all today. Zero for two. The Simi Valley trial was Rodney King. I was like, I know OJ was L.A. I've seen too many documentaries. Oh, for two.

The Simi Valley trial was Rodney King. They moved the Rodney King trial. You're making me feel crazy today. Yeah, well, stand up for yourself. The Rodney King trial was moved to Seamy Valley. And they got, they were acquitted. That was, I was getting my black stuff mix up, O for two. Leaving it in the podcast.

Don't take it out. O for two. Listen, it doesn't make any sense that the prosecution allowed it to be an all-wide jury. And I understand I'm not even pushing back against going to a different county to get jurors, but I am pushing back on an all-wide jury. People who aren't familiar at all with like, it's a smaller county. It's not Memphis at all. you have three black, well, this, I mean, it's more than three, but these three black men beating up on another black man.

And this is what I also don't understand how this was allowed to be in. And this isn't necessarily the prosecution. I'm sure I would imagine that they had some sort of objection prior to trial. But the judge allowed this in. The defense was able to introduce in this trial evidence that the investigators found in Tyree Nichols' car after he was murdered, that they found a small amount of a hallucogenic drug

and they found credit and debit cards that were not his that were alleged to be stolen. That had nothing to do with his traffic stop. Nothing to do with the reason that they stopped him. And yet they were able to introduce that,

irrelevant, highly prejudicial. And the judge allowed that to be entered. You can't tell me. that that didn't affect that jury. In addition to, you could take race out of it, whatever else. The fact that you were able to say he had a drug in his car

and possibly committed another crime, totally tainted. Totally prejudice. Which is probably what the aim of it was to do in the first place. Correct, which is why it's not supposed to be allowed. And I have no idea. So to me, I feel like,

unless the prosecution, again, made this objection and the judge allowed it, they seem to really have dropped the ball. here. This jury shouldn't have been there. This evidence shouldn't have been submitted or introduced to the jury. If I'm his family, I am highly frustrated.

I know they have a civil suit against the city, but this thing's highly unfair. So Donnie brought, put some information in. Tedarius Bean and Justin Smith were found guilty in the federal case of witness tampering. 20 years in federal prison, they face.

However, sentencing in the that case was postponed until the state case reached. So witness tampering? Witness tampering. That's crazy. Haley was found guilty on all counts using excessive force, being deliberately indifferent to Nicholson's medical needs, witness tampering and conspiracy. The witness tampering is for misleading superiors about their actions, which means they were

lying and trying to cover up what they did because they knew they did something wrong. Right. That jury also found that when Haley violated Nicholas's civil rights, it resulted in injury, not death. He could receive a life sentence in federal prison. The feds look like they still have yet to meet out their consequences for this. The only thing I have to say about this is, you know, as it relates to policing, we talk about two colors a lot of times when we talk about policing, talking about black and white.

It might be who of us to talk more about blue. I did an interview with Mayor Ross Baraka not too long ago, and we were talking about the need for community policing. I'm not saying that community policing is not a part of the prescription to maybe answer or solve some of the questions or problems that go along with police and I'm not saying that. But I'm not, I'm saying it's not a cure-all.

Putting black officers out there is not a cure-all, not even a little bit, because if you're asking me, damn, you said miss me with that. Rachel, book, Rach doesn't even want to, y'all got to be watching the show, man. As soon as we started talking about the police, book rage ran for cover. She got down.

She doesn't know what's going to happen. Hold on. I'm going to give Bookwraich some cover right here. We'll put her right here. Bookwraich got down. She was like, oh, the police, I'm out. But no, seriously, the culture of policing is so corrosive to me that they assign criminality to a certain group based upon the structures of the police.

To me, if we're talking about public, safety, when I say structures, I mean, the taught, inferred, and plain directives of policing is to stop out criminals instead of ensure public safety. Because if your job is to ensure public safety and to uphold the safety of the public, then the dead citizen in the police stop is actually the worst outcome. That's the worst possible outcome that you can have. And it seems like we prioritize, just to be frank, officer safety and the punishment of criminals over public safety.

And that to me is a function of the corrosive and mutated culture of the police. And that knows no color. There's no color to that. Certainly, the color on the backside of it is associated with being a black American because the notion that black Americans are inherently criminal or savage is kind of what drives a lot of this. So our color matters much more than theirs does. So when we're talking about reforming the police, hiring more black officers is not the answer. The actual answer to me is reforming the culture of policing, changing the culture of policing.

But more even than that, changing the understanding the notions and the imagining of public safety and what it means to prioritize the safety of the public and not punishment of criminals. So, you know, I think a lot goes into that. I think that's the conversation that was trying to get started with. the defund the police movement and the abolitionist movement, which a lot of Americans just don't understand. They understand the notion of abolition. They don't understand what it means to envision a world without jails or police. And maybe that's not possible,

but certainly a reimagining of public safety where you're prioritizing care for people and the evolution of the human experience over throwing people in jail. would help all of this stuff out. The more I listen to what you're saying and the more I read into this case or the fact that this verdict,

it's making me really upset. Because I'm just, you talk about public safety and I'm thinking about this. And it's like, this case to me is so cut and dry that, and we talked about it when it happened back in 2023. We saw the video.

The autopsy, he said he died from blunt force trauma, which means they beat him. He was fleeing because, and I guess the reason that, you know, when you talk about public safety and it makes me upset is, yes, he was fleeing. And the pushback that came from these officers when they were defending their case was that he posed an unknown risk because he fled. They didn't see a weapon. They didn't see a gun, a night, anything specific.

yet they pepper sprayed him. So he already was defenseless. And you kicked him and you punched him and you beat him. He went into cardiac arrest at the scene. This is so obvious that he died at the scene at the hands of these officers. Yet somehow this jury was able to watch this video. Listen to the fact that these people, I don't even know if the federal case was able to come into this trial. So I don't know if they know that there was witness tampering or that they misled their superiors or not.

But it's so obvious what happened. Because of this, this happened. And yet, for whatever reason, they let these officers off the hook and decided to believe them in this moment. That is scary to me. That is terrifying. And to your point of public safety, if we're talking about the blue and we're talking about reform, I just look at this. I'm like, this is such a terrible precedent.

that is being set. I just, my heart goes out so much to this family, to friends, to anybody who knew Tyree Nichols, to anybody else who has lost someone at the hands of the police and didn't receive, I know we've talked about what the definition of justice is, but didn't receive justice in the form of the officers going to jail, being held accountable for the crime that they committed.

It just really makes me upset that this happened. This should have been in the bag, that these officers should be in prison, found guilty. Uncomfortable truth. We can move on to the Met Gallagher. What a shift. Sorry. I'm upset.

Get it out, Rachel. No, I am. I'm just, just Met Gallagher. This is the life we've chosen, Rachaelic. We got to go from Tyree Nichols to the Met Gallo is what we do. I've never wanted to say this because it seems like a fucked up thing to say. but in my life, and I don't know why this is,

I've been treated lots of times worse by black police officer. I'm not sure what it's about. I've been treated worse by black police officer. I believe that. And it's kind of, um, not all the time, but when I think about the average engagement that I've, that I've had,

there seems to be a thing there. And before I go too hard on it and get into sweeping generalizations about it, I want to unpack it a little bit more. But I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm not talking about the times that I've really been affected or harmed by the police. There have been black cops, have been white cops. But I'm thinking about just being

treated like I ain't shit. Being like not treated like I am the American citizen in the interaction being just treated like oh you're about to get out of line

kind of like getting a little fucked over it's particularly back in Baton Rouge I will say that not as much in LA but particularly back in Baton Rouge the cops that

would fuck over you a little bit they were black cops I don't want to Once again, I'm trying not to generalize But this is your experience This is my experience Like not so much in L.A., but in Baton Rouge

The cops that would kind of Like Have it out for you and fuck over you At least me We're black cops Like they And so I say that to underscore

That there is Something about policing itself That demands loyalty to an ethic and an ideal. And that, to me, is running that cross-purposes with prioritizing life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

for the American citizen. It's more about the system of policing feeding itself. They want to protect themselves. They want to protect the blue. they want to protect the badge, each other, all of that stuff. And if citizens somewhere are, if they benefit from that, then fine. But if they die, that's cool too. That has to change.

Med Gallo. Okay. You got a ride. I don't know about the med gallo. It happened. And everyone loves it. What do you mean you don't know about the med gala? I saw that you wrote, I don't get fashion.

I don't understand fashion. You don't understand fashion. Yeah. I understand it. But you understand the theme, right? Black dandyism was the theme of the med gala. Well, this is where you, I know you tried to throw me under the bus earlier, which you often do on this podcast, and say that from this side of the couch, people don't say when they're wrong. I was wrong the first time we talked about dandyism.

What are you wrong about? I didn't get it. I was very critical of, even though I read an interesting article that I'll talk about about this Met Gala. I felt, I can't remember specifically what I was saying, but I definitely didn't do enough research and understand the history behind it. It felt a little bit like they were exploiting it in a way. Like I was, I really, I basically, I just didn't know.

put, go ahead and put not dandyism expert, non-dandyism expert under my name right here. But as I researched it and I watched it play out, I liked it. I understand it a lot better. I can see the, I can see some issues with it, but I liked it.

Then you don't like it because, what, you didn't like the way people were dressed? So I want to say something. I don't know anything about fashion, but I do know one thing is, I want to dress like Coleman Demi. He never gets it wrong. I want to wear that.

See that? Okay, well, that's dandy. I know, but that's cold, though. Coleman Domingo is the best dressed man in the world. Easily. Easily. Coleman Domingo is not even close. Is Coleman Domingo is doing this thing?

I could see me wearing what Lewis Hamilton has on. Well, I would look cold. Oh, you could see yourself in that? Oh, man. The hat, too? The hat as well. I could look good in a beret. There were a lot of people who were dressed well.

So you understand. the dandyism of it all and what it's you know perfectly tailored you know like or meticulously tailored the color the textures yeah yes dapper dan who was there um i saw his interview with tiana taylor and um you know he was talking about how much how meaningful this was and he's been here before but to see this and to be able to see this in his lifetime and a lot for him uh the symbolism of it the power the identity the rebellion the problem the protest. Lawroach said they'd fucked up and made the Met Gallo Black. Blackness was very much so on the

carpet, not just in the fashion, but also in the presence of black people. Colin Kaepernick was there. He himself just represents power and protest and rebellion. Not even rebellion, but just protests. They look crazy good, Colin in this way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would have been mad if they didn't have Colin Kaepernick there. So I'm going to give my top five's in. Top five's a lot. Okay.

Men and women. Include both. Top five men, the top five women. Oh, wow. Okay. So fashion expert Van Lathen. Now, I'm not sure that I, I'm not sure that I care about the Met Gala.

No, you don't care about the Met Gala, but you don't. So I was asking, or I was asking Kalika, like, what the Met Gala does. And because I didn't even know. You live in, you live with a true fashion expert. But I don't know what the Met Gala does, and I have to find out what it does. The Met Gala, they're raising money for the Metropolitan Museum. Because when I see the Met Gala, reflexively, I gag. It seems like a masturbatory fashion jizz fest.

this isn't even the masturbation. This is the climate of capitalism and celebrity worship. This is Marie Antoinette. It feels that way. 100% I understand that part. But then I talk to people. And they're like, look,

if the Academy Awards and the Golden Globes and all of that stuff, if that's a celebration of the art that you've come to love, which award shows, maybe they matter, maybe they don't. But if that's in a celebration of all the stuff, this is the celebration of what we love.

It's fashion's biggest night. It's fashion's biggest night. Our art, our culture, people that love clothes, that love the way clothes move, that love materials and creativity and, you know, influence and structure and all of that stuff.

So I get that. I get that, you know, it's really not that much different. We only care when celebrities dress up. So this is that. And that is that, yes. But also, it wasn't just clothes. The theme this year, the style of the clothing had meaning. And there was a history behind it.

Did niggas get any of the money for this? So that's the dark. So I read this really interesting piece. It was an opinion piece in the Washington Post. and it was by Karen Atia. Atea, sorry if I'm saying the name wrong or her last name wrong. And she talked about, you know, dandyism and the expression of blackness on the carpet in a way that we hadn't seen before. But she also talked about the darker side of it.

And I found that really interesting. It's, you know, while we're over here, yes, you know, in the Anna Wintour and all the people who are involved with the Met Gala, year patting themselves on the back for celebrating black expression. In certain ways, the fashion industry doesn't celebrate blackness in other ways, even though they did that night. And I thought it was really interesting for her to talk about it. In one way, she's like, look, it's beautiful to see blackness being celebrated because in so many other ways, blackness is being erased. In education, in museums, it's everywhere. It seems like our black, We're fighting to maintain blackness in our history.

So it was nice to see that on the carpet. So good job for that. But she talks about in this article, and I encourage everybody to go read it, that to your point, it raised the most money that they ever have, $31 million. That does not go to anything with black people,

to black culture or anything. So in a way, you could see that it feels like they use this thing, pat themselves in the back. They're profiting off of blackness, but none of the money goes towards it. It never does every year. It goes towards...

I guess the Met is doing something on black dandyism. Yes. Also, the face of this year's gala. His name is Christian Lachman. He works a 9 to 5 at GNC. He's the face of it. They use his image, likeness,

everything he modeled for it, but he sweeps floors. Works a 9 to 5 at GNC. So it's kind of like a showing that high fashion still remains exclusively in whiteness. Because yes, he was used in this moment, but he's not really making money modeling. He's got to work a nine to five.

Yeah. So it highlights that as well. And then she really went in the detail about Andre Leon Talley, a figure every year, you know, he's passed away, but a figure every year on the Met Gallo, or at the Met Gallo in fashion in general, really behind Anna Wintor. she wouldn't be who she is without his influence. Yet when he died, he was living in someone else's house, was completely broke. She had kind of turned her back on him. And yeah, and when he passed away,

he didn't even have a cover. And he is so influential to fashion. So it's also just this reminder, and she's talking about this article of, yes, black influence has, blackness has influence fashion, yet we don't see the rewards, reap the rewards of it. Can I add a name to that list? Dapper Dan.

Dapper Dan as well. Dapper Dan, who was there last night, who is one of the most influential names in American fashion for sure. Because, and let me tell you why. Let me tell you why Dapper Dan is one of the most influential names in American fashion to me. And I don't feel like it is really debatable.

It cannot be argued. hip-hop's influence on high fashion in the last 30 or 40 years. Can I be argued? I didn't learn what Louis or Dior or Balenciaga or Gucci or any of that stuff, I didn't learn that from the fashion show. I learned that from these rappers.

I learned what Versace was and all of that stuff from these rappers. There was one man that during the rise of hip-hop was bridging the gap between high fashion and the rappers and the athletes and the drug boys, the dope boys, in New York that was spreading that influence into hip hop and worldwide, and that's Dapper Dan. And the fashion industry showed Dapper Dan their ass for decades, would not sell to him at his wholesale spots, sued him over and over again, for his designs. And now at 80 years old, we're talking about in the last 10 to 15 years,

the fashion industry, in large part, because hip hop has had such an inflated influence there, has started to embrace Dapper Dan and talk about what he was able to do and talk about who he was to bringing high fashion to hip hop, which then to me exploded

high fashion into mainstream pop culture. Now listen to me. These brands that we're talking about and sometimes are 100 inches of years old. Like literally like 100, 150 years old. I'm not saying that Gucci or Louis

needs demigos. I am saying, though, that LVMH is the world's is one of the world's biggest companies. That's Louis Vuitton, Moet and Hennessy. Louis Vuitton, Moet and Hennessee,

and everything that comes underneath that, black culture is a major contributing force to that. There is no better commercial for Versace than being in a Versace shirt. What is he wearing? Pock in a Versacee shirt, what is he wearing? Other rappers

who really cared about fashion that will not be named. Oh, you're dropping all of these things. Talking about all of this stuff. Balenciaga this, Belenciaga this, Balenciaga that, all of that stuff. Dapper Dan is a major, major part of that. I am so happy to see him get his just due

at the ripe young age of 80 and before. But I also hope that the next Dapper Dan out there doesn't have to wait 40 or 50 or 60 years to get that same thing. I guess we're seeing that now. I guess you see Farrell with Louis V. I guess rest in peace, Virgil. I guess you're seeing a lot of that stuff.

And women, because a lot of these guys are guys. women. And continue to invest in black people and fashion and all of that. And also, like, put some respect on what the theme is. If y'all are going to walk the carpet and you're going to dress the part because you're supposed to, please do your, a slight research of what dandy is. Because Nicole Kidman and Hathaway, it was embarrassing. It was ridiculous.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to see them. They have a, I will give them. them a little out, you know, if they go too hard with the dandy and they look like. No, just say you don't know what it means. Like, we could have been on the carpet because I could not have been Lala when Nicole Kim is talking about the placement of buttons

and Lala's response was, I love that. I would have been like, you're joking, right? Okay. No. Top five, well-dressed the men at the Met Gala Van Lathen time. All right. Van Lathen fashion expert.

Kenny Hamilton diss the shit out of me, by the way. Kenny Hamilton. Kenny Hamilton is on my shit list right now. The nicest guy around? Diss me. I said all my little messages on Instagram,

I don't know fashion. Kenny Hamilton, where we can tell. No reason. Like a shot for no reason. I told Kenny, I was like, I love it. I was like, I told Kenny, I said, I don't know who we is,

but tell we they can suck my thing. I call him. I'm not going to go Colman Domingo looks fantastic I don't know what he's wearing I don't know what this means but Coleman Domingo now he looks He's got two different outfits here

He's got a cape and all of this I guess this is the unveiling Yeah because he was one of the co-hosts He was one of the co-host So this one he looks like Kane to Conqueror a role that he reportedly turned down And then Underneath you got this

If I was going to go To the Met Gallo This is what I would wear Cape and all No not the Cape. The cape I can't get away with because if I wear a cape, the cape is going to have to be the circumference of the cape at the bottom is going to have to be too big. Okay. Like I looked at myself in my robe. I got these nice robes, because you got me these nice robes. But I don't look like fit niggas looking a rope. I look like the robe goes straight down. Don't you love a robe though? But I need the robe to go like that. So I keep working. But like if I wear a cape, it's not going to look right. Okay.

It's going to look like, oh, you ever see like one of those circle showers? Yeah. One of those circle showers with a little thing. That's what the cape going to look like on me. It don't look like that on Coleman, though. So Coleman Domingo is the first name that jumps off for the men. Okay. The second name, man, all red.

Regé Jean-Page, page, man. Did you see him? No, I actually didn't see him. Oh, hold on for a second. I got to show you, Reg. Look at this motherfucking nigger right here. Are you kidding me? He looks like a demon, a sexy demon.

He looks, but that's like some Star Wars, all red. It's not my favorite, but it looks good. I fuck with it because I like a little bit of Rasmatat. He looks good. And it's not my favorite, though. What are your thoughts on A.S. A.S.F. Rocky always is going to look good. Fantastic.

And what I did see this critique. because he was a co-host as well, people were complaining that what is an essential part of dandyism is color. Okay. And we were seeing a lot of black and white, particularly the two people you just met

two out of the three, they were black and white. They went a little bit more from the host, a little bit more pizzazzed with the color and the textures, but ASEF looked amazing. He would have been on my list too. Yeah, man. His outfit had a lot of different,

like, accentuations to it, so you could put the blicky in there. The cane. If you need to. Okay, that's three. Who else? Jeff Goldblum. I'm fucking with it.

It's, it's not really giving dandy. It's not on theme. So, but he looks great. For me. That's me. He looks great, though. See, I don't know if I'm,

if I'm sophisticated enough to judge them with the theme as well. You picked two who were very much on theme. Very much on theme. Who else? No, I'm trying to get you to the minute. Can I offer some suggestions? Damson Idris. Oh, I saw him.

Oh, I audibly said out loud. Oh, my gosh. Like, did you go, oh, daddy? Oh, my gosh. He looked, now, I wasn't really into the whole motorcycle jacket and then ripping it off. He was in a full motorcycle suit. It was F1.

Oh, excuse me. So he was, I think he was doing. By the way, I don't want to go O for three. But I think he was doing the, I think he was doing the F1, because he came out with the helmet on. F1's getting ready to come out, though. So I think he was doing that. Yeah, F1 was the same weekend.

But they ripped it off of him. I wasn't into that. Love the motorcycle helmet, though. But when he came out of it, I didn't know who it was. I said, like, oh, that. Like, he is number one on my list. Okay, so that's four. And then I would say Justin Jefferson.

Justin Jefferson, a little footballer in there. He, this Justin Jefferson. Let me see. I got to give it to him because of LSU. I loved what he did. Was it any Texas niggas on the list? No, because they didn't get invited. Okay.

Women now. You, you, Kenny Hamilton, me. That was an unnecessary shot. I apologize. It wasn't right. I'll be honest. Once again, I'm taking responsibility. Women.

The women. A lot of women. I thought the women outdressed the men. They always do. A lot of women who really understood the assignment. Go women I don't want to say I don't want to

She's got three names And I always mix it up I just saw it on your list Get Jody Smith Turner Jody Turner Smith I knew I was gonna mess up Jody Jody Turner Smith

Okay Rocked it that color She's the same color as What did you call Like ox blood Oh Is that what they call the color It's beautiful

Oh she The hat the texture the color, the tailoring, amazing. Lorne Hill. Lorne Hill looks good. Oh, it was like a light yellow, just everything. There were levels to it.

There was a complexity to it. You want to put Tracy Ellis Ross. Kalika had to explain to me the importance and the value of what Tracy Ellis Ross was bringing to the carpet. It looked better in movement than it did in the moment. than it did in a still shot.

But I loved the colors of it. Okay. Who else? I mean, you talk, Rihanna? Oh, Rihanna. Yeah, Rihanna. Baby bump at all. I liked Cardi B.

A lot of, I loved the texture. I love the layers. Again, I love the complexity of it. Did you know Rihanna was pregnant? I did not. I didn't either. I had no clue that she was pregnant. Apparently, everyone was like, we knew.

I had no idea. I didn't even know. I didn't even know. Who did you tell? I think it was the Navy. You know, they watch everything. But she looked magnificent. I love that every year she's the last one

and makes everybody wait for her arrival on the carpet. I love it. So this lady is not on the list, but... Sydney Sweeney? Okay, but I saw the funniest tweet ever. Somebody had a picture of Sidney Sweetie in their tweet and it said Big Lotto. Does that how Lotto dresses?

I mean, no, they say that Sidney's Sweeney looks like Lotto. That was funny to me. I'm sorry. What do you think about Shibuzzi's outfit? It's the best I've ever seen Shibuzi dress. This is the best you ever saw Shibuzy dress? Shibuzi has, in my opinion, terrible fashion. Every time I see him on a carpet, I'm like, he got it wrong again. He got it wrong.

This and he had the turquoise, the beads in the front and had the turquoise grill. This is the best I've seen him dress. So the turquoise here, I feel like this is a, nod to his Nigerian culture? He looked great. I don't know that he looked great. I think he looked like a Star Wars character, but that's, but I can see him going for it. It's the best I've seen.

Okay, last woman. Oh, Ava was here. Some of our friends were here. Ava's outfit was a nod to her great grandmother. I saw her post that. So that was really special. I don't know how to, you know, I'm really afraid to judge the women because the last time I tried to like say, oh, you know who looked good?

K. Kaby Lame looked good. Yeah, he looked good. Kabi Lameh, Kabi, Al Sharpton. I don't feel like certain niggas should go. He never gets a wrong on the carpet either. Al Sharpton? No, no, no. Brian Tyree Henry?

Mm-hmm. Never gets it wrong. He's killing it. Never gets it wrong. He's always on a best dress list. So these are the list. Tyler Perry? Boring Tyler Perry?

I want to give it to Tiana Taylor. But she looks like she wore all her favorites. It looks like she was like all these things come together. but she looked great. Okay. Savannah James looked great too. So no LeBron. He had a knee injury.

He had a knee injury. Couldn't go to the Met Gala. You think that that's not true? I think that's bullshit. Why would he not want to be there? I think that's horseshit. Because the Lakers lost? Yeah.

I think I have a knee injury so I can't go to the Met Gala as a bunch of bullshit. It's not a good look. I mean, honestly, you just lost and then here you are. I think he made the right decision not to come. Okay. So this is my mom. last one I'm putting in. Andre Day.

She looks good. She looks fantastic. This is my first time seeing her. Actually, I take that back because somebody didn't like the color, but I think she looks amazing. Here's Ann Hathaway, Black Dandy. Look, you guys, that was Fashion Corner. I say a lot of white people got it wrong. Because they're not trying. They're like, fuck y'all niggas. Except for Sarah Snook. Snook?

Yeah, Snook. Snook. She looked amazing. What do you think about her? overall. What do you think about Sarah Snook? Yeah, what do you think about it from succession? What do you think about it? I don't really know much about it. You want to make some comments about her body type? Why would I do that? They said she thick. They like the thickness.

She is thick. First class. All right. Well, that's that's a fashion expert Van Lathen. Fashion expert Van Lathen. You did an okay job. I mean, I did the best that I could possibly do. But you deemed yourself an expert. So that's, that's, that's, standard, that standard isn't going to work when you're calling yourself an expert.

You don't get to do the best you can do. You're an expert. The bar's high. I don't know what these, I don't know what America you're living in, but I'm inundated with experts who don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Well, don't put yourself in that category. You don't want to be like them. I'm definitely one of those people.

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He's from Chicago. Let's look at the picture. of him. Robert Prevost, Robert Prevost, yeah, 69 years old. Is an American Catholic? Is he black? No, he is not. He will be known as, was that Leo the, what is that? 14th? Yep, that's 14th. Leo the 14th, he spent much of his career as a missionary

in South America and most recently led a powerful Vatican office for bishop appointments. He's expected to build on Pope Francis's reforms. Now, he's from Chicago. Are people in Chicago about to go crazy? You have not met a group of people that have more pride in their city. I think the two most prideful cities

of people that I've met are people from Chicago and people from New Orleans. You don't think New York? I think that... Like true New Yorkers. Not people who move there. I'm talking about true New Yorkers.

They have a lot of pride. The problem with the New York thing is this. This is the problem with it. Is true New Yorkers that I know never just say that they're from New York. They say that they're from Brooklyn. They say it they're from Queens. They say they're from the Bronx. They say they're from Staten Island.

They say that they're from. So the truth, the people that I know from New York, I go, where are you from? They're going from Brooklyn. They're going from Queens. That's true. They're going from Staten Island. You know what I mean? I'm from Long Island.

You know what I mean? The true New Yorkers, that's what they do. The fucking people from New Orleans and Chicago love their fucking cities, man. They love their cities. They love their goddamn cities. Everything is revolving around. Man, Chicago, greatest place in the world.

Chicago, New Orleans, New Orleans, New Orleans, New Orleans, New Orleans, New Orleans. These Chicago people about to go up that they got a cardinal. First American Pope comes from Chicago. is about to be a whole thing. They're going to make drill songs about him. They're going to make drill songs about Leo the 14th. They're going to make drill songs. So shout out, I mean, is that a win for us in America?

We got a Pope, the First American Pope. Well, I mean, Trump put his name in the ring, but... Yeah. Well, congratulations to Pope Leo the 14th. Congratulations, Leo. Leo is the Chicago name, you know. It is. Leo the 14th.

I'm proud of him. him. He's 69, so he's a little younger. Yeah, that's good. You know, Chicago, Illinois. I don't know, you know, anything about him. Hopefully, his name isn't involved in the whole spotlight thing. Well, he's supposed to be building on reforms. So let's best. Legal time, Rachel, this is a great, Donnie, give us the, Rachel, you can handle this one. This is fun news.

Yay. A complaint filed in L.A. Superior Court accused Smokey Robinson of sexual battle. false imprisonment, negligence, and gender violence. In addition to a number of labor violations related to wages, mealtimes, and overtime pay, the lawsuit also mentions his wife, Francis Robinson, claiming that she contributed to a hostile work environment and used ethnically pejorative words and language.

Tough stuff. I mean, what am I going to say? I mean, I will say Smokey Robinson did a, phone call with the Daily Mail, and he said, quote, I am appalled and I can't speak about this right now. So, obviously, he's denying it. This, if true, is horrifying. Disgusting. I, I was shocked. I mean, how old is, how old is? 85. 85 years old, but they say that this has gone on since 2006. Since 2006. I mean, four, women coming together. I mean, we don't really have a lot to go off of.

Can't really be a legal eagle in this situation. We have to wait for more of the story to come out. But maybe I shouldn't be shocked anymore, but I was shot when I heard it. I mean, these are strong allegations against Smokey Robinson, who is, you know, a legend. Yeah. But if true, also a monster. Oh, I mean, there's really not much to say. Smoker-Robinson, we have to report on it.

Let's talk about it. These accusations and allegations are coming fast and furious. They're coming, this is from all over. Is there, I mean, I don't know what to make of it. Well, I think, you know, we'll wait for more information to come out, obviously. but I think it's something to the point that I said of, I shouldn't be shocked anymore, but I still am. Right.

It's not like I look at people, greats or legends, and say, ah, you know what, I could see him doing that. I don't look at anybody that way. But in light of, to your point, these allegations and some convictions and all of that have been coming out so frequently, it's just like you just really don't know about what people do behind closed doors. You really can't speak to it.

You have no idea what people are doing. You can't judge them. How they're using people. Yeah, you can't judge them by what they mean to the community. You can't judge them on their wealth, on their celebrity, on their artistry. Nothing about that. Because...

Well, it's becoming obvious. that the artistry part of it doesn't figure into the discussion. Some of your favorite artists have done and are doing terrible things. It's up to you to make the decision whether or not you're going to enjoy that art or indulgent to that art. But it's getting to the point to where if you are going to cancel, not cancel, fuck that word. if you were going to say that you weren't going to listen to any of the music that Smokey Robinson was responsible for,

you are deleting an entire portion of music history. I'm not just talking about him in the miracles. I'm talking about his influence over the entire movement. So it's starting to get to a point to where it might be a time to ask ourselves two things about specifically what makes these luminaries

why we're seeing an increased amount of them involved in this type of stuff which really if you go back and you look at it keep telling people this you know I find myself on James Brown's Wikipedia

and I was like shit oh yeah you're talking about like you know all kinds of shit I'm like what the fuck is going on and I guess things is kind of you know

there wasn't much scrutiny at that point so it was like whatever but I guess the question I'm asking is I don't think that there are enough good people particularly in the music industry and this is not me saying that all of these allegations against Smokey Robinson are true

these are allegations but I don't know if there's enough people that aren't involved in something like this for you to X all of them out. It's getting to a point to where when I see somebody or

when I get wind of someone that doesn't have any accusations around their name, I'm like actually pleasantly surprised. Yeah. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that no one can say that, hey, back in the day this person did this to me or back in the day this person did this to me. But even though you're not hearing it,

it's still, I mean, Smokey Robinson is again, these are allegations, but Smokey Robinson is 85 years old and this is alleged to have been going on for almost 20 years. So it's like even if you haven't heard about something about someone, you still just don't know. I know, but I think that this will be interesting because you can't get rid of Motown.

And he is responsible. I'm talking about not just from the standpoint of being a vocalist, as a songwriter, as a producer, as, a talent scout. He's responsible for so much of it. And are you saying this as people personally listening to the music or just more of like what people play at parties or events or even being stripped from like a Spotify or an Apple?

Is that what you're talking about? Let me tell you what I'm talking about. So a couple of weeks ago, I was in a conversation with a friend and Joe was brought up. And I started listening to that. That Joe is crazy Remember the Joe era Joe Tom?

You like Joe? I'm not a big Joe fan. You like that sweet of this shit? J-O-E and royalty. Never resonated with me. Don't argue much now that I have acquired the things in a good life. These six feet of getting how things have changed.

Why are you giving yourself a list? in East and a Western wing. I gotta thank God for my life at all. You never heard that? Sweeter than sugar. Trips overseas, modern luxuries, the good

life. You just say the word and it will be. Okay, anyway. But I was listening to that show. I'm listening to that Joe on YouTube, right? And a Joe song called More and More

comes on. Have you heard that record? Now, did you know that R. Kelly originally recorded that record? It sounds like R. Kelly. Okay. Like an R. Kelly song. So Rkelly had, Arkelly had, I can't remember the name of the, maybe it was called Love Land. But it was a album that was coming out and it leaked. Like all the records leaked. This was back in the Napster, really leakish days. All of the records leaked.

And so we were listening to more and more the R. Kelly version at that time. And we listened to a lot of those songs. Well, a couple of those records, Joe ended up recording them for his album, right? So more and more comes off YouTube, then auto plays R. Kelly's more and more. I haven't heard that song in a long time.

Okay? So you got excited. I went in there to stop the song from playing. And he started singing a little bit of it. And before you know it, I was like, as long as I want you to know that I'm, and I'm like, oh shit. And I literally felt bad.

I'm like, what the fuck? And because the music just triggered something in me. And Arkelly's version is a lot better than Joe's version's song. He wrote it for himself. Arkelly's been easy. God bless you. Rkelly's been easy for me to get rid of,

haven't heard the music in a long time. When the music pop on, I was like, oh my God, this guy was a big, big, big, big part of my musical life. Big part of my musical life. If we're to hold that same standard for a lot of people, we're just going to be deleting a lot of music. There's going to be a lot of music and a lot of stuff. I'm not so sure if it's even tenable

to not separate the art from the artist. I'm not even sure if it's, Well, what's the line, right? Because with R. Kelly, he's currently in prison. Certainly. He had been on trial before, and we still listen to the music. It was this, the documentary, the multiple accusations again, and then I guess it was undeniable, and now he's in prison to where people are like, okay, no.

Diddy, we're on that level. No. When it comes to accusations, I don't think people have the same standard. When someone's accused of something like this or acquitted, like Michael Jackson, it's a cop-out. People say, well, he was found not guilty.

People say that? I think that they don't stop listening to the music. We talked about it. We haven't stopped listening to Michael Jackson, but I don't, maybe that's a private thing. No, hold on, wait a second. Hold on, wait a second. I'm not making the request public.

I know, but this is the deal, though. We're, so when people do that stuff, they're telling themselves a story. The reality is this. For sure. The reality is this. Michael Jackson has a number of accusations over the course of decades.

He was found guilty in a court of law. Excuse me. Make sure I'd say that right. He was found not guilty in a court of law, right? Not guilty in a court of law. but he has allegations of some terrible things over decades. I have not stopped listening to Michael Jackson's music because I can't stop listening to Michael Jackson's music

because the music makes me happy. And I need happy. I fucking need happy. I need happy. Getting my ass kicked. So if the music makes you happy. The music makes me happy and I fucking need happy. I need rock with you.

I need, can you feel it? The music makes me happy. It makes me fucking happy. I can't. But for some reason, I'm able to take this moral stand. With R. Kelly? With R. Kelly.

Well, the music. That is completely arbitrary when you take into consideration other things that I watch or the fact that I still listen to the music from death row records. Or I still listen to this or I still doing that. I think, well, with R. Kelly, it's just,

I can't separate the work. Like his music's so sexual that I can't separate the lyrics from what he did. It's like I think he was writing that about minors and about people he was holding captive. And so for me, it's because to your point

about happy, I was somewhere and the ignition remix came on. And I was like, two, two, beep. And I was like, but it's a happier song. But when you listen to these records, and I was disgusted with my songs. But when you listen to these records,

if you actually think that these records are inspired by and praising his sexual proclivities that. And I do. So then that's a different thing. And that's why it's and it's, and it's, it was a, it was an easy decision once everything, but it took me a while. I've expressed it.

I was at concerts. I was like, Well, he's found not guilty. I told myself a story. With Michael Jackson? No, no, no. With R. Kelly at first. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We all did for years. But that music was such a part of my upbringing. We did two things. We did two things. Number one, we told ourselves a story. But number two, there's something else. And we have to be honest about this. We grew up in a time where it didn't make you a bad person to listen to a bad person.

Correct. We grew up in a time where you weren't expected to maintain a moral intellectual purity every single second of the day, where the human experience was understood as something that was inherently a little contradictory and hypocritical. to where we understood that there were preachers that preached and fucked to where we understood that there were politicians who politiced did a little coke

so we understood that there were politicians that politicked and fucked people on the side it's not that these scandals didn't come with consequences in some cases the consequences were bigger than others but we kind of lived in a time where the fall of somebody was the fall of them And there was a segment where all these people fell and it was what it was, right?

Now there's a different standard. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the standard. Now, everything that you eat, listen to, watch, fly on, live in, talk to, like, comment on is a reflection of how good of a person you are. And I get the goal of it. The goal of it is to make sure we reduce harm in our society, that we're not excusing things that are harmful. And that is a fantastic goal. I don't think it's a goal that human beings can live up to.

For sure. But you can try and you can say there are obvious examples of people that we have. have to excites out of our society. But I know it's just different, you know. I haven't even thought about not listening to R. Kelly to that R. Kelly came on. When you hear it, it...

And you was like, damn, I would love to listen to that... To all the players in the club. We ride, we ride. Jay-Z's on that bitch. That's the one you want to... Man, I used to listen to... I used to listen to that record. That's chocolate. I just wanted to...

Jay Z came on. Better hold it over the door. I'm better than a lot of men. I switch up calls like Rottamins' hair color. Hit your bra on borderline too much for your mortal mind. Every time you ought to rewind, there's more to find. I'm like, what the fuck? Jay-Z.

Now when I hear Jay-Z, all I can fucking think about is calling. Everything is like, it's like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, what the fuck, man? I don't have that problem. Everything is going on and people are telling me. It was people telling me. If you care so much about squatters, why not invite them to live in your house? Well, they're not wrong.

I don't want them to live in my house. It's okay, Brownie. Look, Brow. You disturbed Brownie. He was, come here. I apologize, Brownie. Brownie's a squatter. He'll pin on rent.

Like, it is, I don't want them to live in my house. And that's okay. I want them to have their own place to live. They got you on the squatters. Look, I'll be on. I'm going down with the ship. My friend Anthony Seller has something that he says

about Dion Sanders and Coach Prime. He goes, Coach Prime, I'm going down with the ship. So it doesn't matter how many games priming them lose. Coach Prime, I'm going down with the shit. Fuck it. I'm going down with the ship with

squatters and with like being anti-hyper wealth controlling people. I'm going down with the ship. Fuck it. Everybody was, everybody was, everybody told me I was wrong. I guess I'm wrong about the squatters thing. This is all I'll say about it is I

people were asking me questions and the questions were so funny. The people were like, so you don't think people should have to pay for food? I'm like, no, not really. Yeah, I think we covered that one. But people are asking, so you're telling me that it's okay for people to steal food if they're hungry. I'm like, yeah, it's okay. I totally agree with stealing food.

Not even just if you're hungry. Like, I don't think that there should be somebody that should say, hey, your nourishment is my business. Like, I agree that we need a society that, and this is so idealistic that it's stupid, but I agree that we need a society where we do for each other. So, hey, I do this, you do that. It's fine.

I get that. But, like, when I think about my goals and ideals, I literally say yeah, it's kind of weird that somebody else tells you that in order to lay down and be safe, you've got to pay the maximum of dollars a month. I guess I know that's how we oriented our society,

but just to listen to the vitriol that people had when I was like, yeah, you know, fuck people who own where you live or fuck people that control the nourishment of your body or like to me, if you're for single payer healthcare, if you believe in single payer healthcare, that health care should be provided to people.

I don't understand what the delineation is between that and between an understanding that other things are basic rights as well. Well, you're talking about a business, right? I mean, obviously, health care industry is a business as well, but I think you can separate the fact that people are profiting off of the sickness and taking care of people as opposed to what you're saying is anti-business owners, right? Still food. Still closed. What should happen is there should be places where that are set up for people to be able to have food, to be able to have housing, for to be able to have clothes.

It doesn't mean that you should take away from people who are who have businesses that do that. Which is what you're saying. Catch your question? I'm not saying that you're wrong. Why do I have to care about business owners? You don't, and you clearly don't. It's not that I don't care about them. I just don't especially, I don't care about a business owner more than I do like a homeless person.

I don't care about a bakery. You want people to have basic meat. People who tell me you want people to steal from the bakery. Like, I don't care about the bakery more than I care about the person that's starving. It's odd. Let me tell you something right now. I'm definitely wrong about this. Everybody keeps my ass about this.

I'm definitely wrong. When we talk about the movie centers, okay? I'm trying to relate it to something that you care about. And you told people, support black movies, go out and buy a movie ticket. True. Shouldn't they just open up the theater to people who can't afford to have streaming services or TVs or electricity and just say go and watch the movie you're all by yourself? Yes, they should, but they can't.

And so like- Why can't they? Because the system that we've set up doesn't allow for it. When Black Panther came out, when Black Panther came out, you know what we did? we bought up the people who could, we bought up a lot of theaters so we can sit kids to go see the movie. So do that for other stuff too then. I can do it as much as I can,

but what I'm telling you, what I'm telling people is this, is that whenever I'm in an argument with somebody and they go, and they go, well, you're a hypocrite because of this. I'll tell you what I mean. Like you're talking about American racism.

People are going, you live in America. I live in America, yes. I live in America. I participate in America every day. So I'm not supposed to care that America is racist. We just had a, we just had a conversation about the police. Somebody breaks into the house. I'm calling the police.

I'm calling the police. If somebody breaks into my car, I'm calling the police. I have to call the police because in order to get my insurance to do what it has to do, I need a police report. What if they break into your, what if they break into your, what if they break into your car because they need a place to live? Well, the reality is that, well, if somebody breaks into my car, if somebody breaks into my car, if I find somebody sleeping in my car,

the first thing I'm going to do is make sure that that person is all right. That's the first thing I'm going to do. And then what are you going to do? After that, I got to get them out of my car. You know what I mean? Why? Because, now listen. Now listen to what you're doing.

I get what you're doing, right? I don't have the wherewithal to add another human person to my, to my life, I don't. So I can't bring somebody to work with me. I can't do all of that. But when an issue is personalized in that way, when it's personalized in that way, it's done, in my opinion,

to skirt the larger philosophy issue that we're talking about. But see, this is where we disagree because I agree with you that people should have housing. But when it comes to, go ahead. No, no, real quick. Because I interrupt you. Go ahead. No, but let me stay on that, though,

because when people are saying, well, you care so much about the homeless, then let a homeless person come live with you. You care so much about the environment, don't drive a car. You care so much about the environment, don't fly on a plane. What I'm saying is the conversations that we have that we have when I'm having a conversation is not about the specific culpability of a person in a system, because a lot of these systems are set up, right?

It's about how you reimagine that system. Like how, what would be the best system that works for the most amount of people? I agree with you. But what you were saying yesterday about, like, people need a place to live. I believe that they should be able to go into a dwelling and stay there. I'm not saying let that homeless person live with you because that's not the argument. But when if a person breaks into your car because they need a place to live or they need to be warm, that is the equivalent of squatting. So they're going to stay in your car because they need that.

So that's why I was saying, like, when I was making the argument for, you know, maybe not a big corporation that builds a big high rise and breaks up the prices, but for the two-unit landlord or whatever, they can't afford to have that person squat there. And then it affects them in the same way that you can't afford to say, you take that car, I'm going to have, I'm going to go ahead and get another car. That's the equivalent of somebody squatting in your house. I can't afford. I agree that you should have a place to live,

but I can't afford to let you stay here. I'm not saying that what you're saying isn't true. I'm saying that it doesn't matter. I'm telling you, it doesn't matter to the point that I'm trying to make. The point that I'm trying to make is, like, my concern, even in that situation, it's an inconvenient truth that I can't afford to drive the person around and do all of that. Not only can I afford it, I'm going to be honest with you guys.

I don't want to. I don't want to do that. Right. But if we're talking about it, right, and we're having a conversation, the people that I would support, the version of society that I would support, the things that I would do lend itself towards health care for all. I agree. Housing justice. Sustainance justice. I'm right there with you. All of that stuff, right?

And I think that it's odd, particularly. when you talk about health care. So, and you make the correlation. All right. So you get sick. Somebody gets rich off of it. Somebody gets rich off you being hungry. Somebody gets rich off you off the housing.

It's like, to me, I'm like, okay, is there a version of society that we could think about or maybe that's not the case? And then people go, well, you know, if you don't have homeless people in your house and you don't give me a fuck about it. No, I agree with you. I believe in all those things too.

I just don't think the way to do it is by breaking into somebody's house and creating a fake lease so you can do it. I agree these things should happen. And there are certain things like, you know, grocery stores, for example, they make money off of the grocery stores that, I mean, about the, with the produce and the groceries that they have there. They make money and they make a profit and they're rich. There are also things that some grocery stores do where damaged cans or boxes or boxes

or produce that they're not using, they repurpose that and give that away to the people who need that. So, like, there are, it's just that, it's just not happening worldwide. So this is why I'll say, last thing about this, when we talk about the hunger portion of it.

North Baton Rouge was a food desert. And even though Gary Chambers is mad at me, what did you do to Gary Chambers? We had it back and forth. Gary Chambers is the most valuable resource. source that Louisiana had. Him and Gino and the rest of the people and the work that they're doing support everything that Gary's doing.

He's changing the state. But guys like Gary Chambers and Walter McLaughlin, like those guys were able to get the Rouse's people to open up a grocery store in near North Baton Rouge. It's kind of not North Baton Rouge, but it's norther than they had one.

North Baton Rouge, was a complete food desert. Why? Why is it a food desert? There's a food desert there because capitalism has you serve food to the people that can afford to buy it. So North Baton Rouge is a food desert and other food deserts exist because of the structures and the effects of capitalism. I agree with you. Because there are people that are saying people that don't have money don't need apples. People that don't have money, they do need it. And as a matter of fact, society will be better if those people had nourishment. Now, are you going to make a gazillion dollars putting a Rouse's or an Albertsons or a Wendixie or Whole Foods or any of those places in North Baton Rouge? No,

you're not going to make that type of money there because those people up there who are black have had their wealth intentionally depressed by structures of, you know, by structures of white supremacy over generations. So you're not. They need to eat, though. Who gonna feed them? So my whole thing is, I get it. I was wrong about the squatting thing.

But it is just in me to ask the question, not of how I'm gonna get my rent, but of how I'm gonna lay my head down. Like, and maybe I need to adopt a couple of people into my house to make y'all not side. No, that's not the argument. And late stage capitalism. And maybe we need to talk about it a little bit more

because y'all are really offended. I really offended a lot of people. I'm not sorry, but I will admit I'm wrong, over three. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services,

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Jaden Daniels was photographed in Miami this past weekend going into a restaurant with his mom and another lady. And that sparked a debate on whether or not Regina Jackson is an overbearing mom. Now that Jaden is getting ready to take this next big step, what concerns you the most? Girls. Neme girls. Some girl out here, she's got a Jaden Daniels wall, and her mama said, hey, honey, you're going to be the one who's going to go down. And I know that sounds crazy, but I guarantee there's someone out there who's trying to get their hooks into Jaden Daniels. So thank you, I, he got a mama like me

because it ain't happening. There is nothing y'all could say to make me go against Regina Jackson. I love her. I love her. This is the type of mother I would be. I do not think that she is overbearing. I think she and her son have a close relationship.

No, I really, I really, listen, that's a valid concern for especially somebody like Jaden Daniels whose stock is only rising. I will say this, though. I think people are overreacting with, this video because she was sitting with Jaden and Jiu Jiu were sitting next to each other and everyone's like, oh my God, they're a couple. Oh my gosh. We have no idea. Jaden exits. He's down there in Miami for F1. He exits the vehicle. There's a woman there, a young girl there. We have

no idea if they're dating, if that's a friend, if that's a cousin. All we see is a girl. We see Jaden. We see his mom look and see all the cameras and then go back and to the car. Don't blame her. I don't blame her for doing that. And then all of a sudden we're running with the narrative once again that she's an overbearing mom. She is a mom who's looking out for her son's best interest. She is very much so within her right, and I would say rightfully so, to be concerned about somebody coming in and possibly taking advantage of her son. Does she need to let her son do his own thing? Eventually, sure. And she might be doing that. But this right here, we have no idea what the situation was.

Time for my favorite game. It's called What Aboutism? If this were a father who were seemingly, seemingly. With his daughter? Lording over his daughter this way. Would you feel the same? I feel the same way. I would actually love to see that he's out here not making, letting men come in.

Well, let me say, I'm going to say I'm talking about men. But I would love to see that he's being, like, protecting his daughter and showing his daughter, like, he's probably showing her what a man should. should be like how a man should be treating her and not letting any old guy come in here and, you know, take advantage of her, distract her. Same way Jada's mom. I promise you I would feel this. I might even like it more.

So this is what I would say. I think a lot of guys when they see this, their first reaction is to be like, what the fuck is going on? Because you know what we think about? What? Pussy. I think that the first thing that guys think

about is, boy, if I was Jay Daniels, man, 24, 25 years old, Heisman trophy, you know, I would be hitting. It'd be me and Zendaya and Chloe Bailey and all of this. I'll be going, I'll be

going ham. You know, this is his time. He's a young man that's out there. If I was him, quarterback in D.C., you know, they closed down stadium, but I would be in stadium. I think. I don't think stadium's there. Stadium's gone.

Let's see. But I'll be all over the place. It's one D.C. strip club that they was telling me, hold on. It's a D.C. strip club that they was telling me about when I was in D.C. I did not go there. And they were telling me that is it the Empire or is it platinum? No, just shout out to all the D.C. strip club.

Shout out to Platinum, the cloak room. the cloak room, the good guys my shit actually turned off as I was doing that. So shout out to all the strip clubs in D.C. But it was one that someone told me to go to and I put it on Twitter and I was like, y'all, should I go here or do I need the hawk in the civic? And one of the girls was like,

nah, you don't need the hawk in the civic. But people, Jaden is going to go places like that. They would want Jaden to go places like that and really sow his royal oats. And because he can't do that or seemingly he can't do that is what they think, because of his mom,

they go, damn, his mom is hating on him. If I was Jaden Daniels, I would be doing this and I will be doing that and I would be doing this and I would be doing that. But I don't think it's anything wrong to choose performance over pussy. Nothing wrong with that. No, there's nothing wrong with him.

Is helping him, at least at this point in his life, choose performance over pussy. But also, like, we don't see. We've seen a couple of photos and then I promise her direct words. If she hadn't said those words, people wouldn't even be thinking this way. But because she did. Right. And then the actions back it up.

Well, they don't back it up. It's just, you just see her. They do back it up. So her coming, her being there. Her sitting in between him and juju-walking. Like, you know, my mom. Maybe that was her seat. But my mom, but see, my mom wouldn't have done that.

My mom wouldn't have done that either. Like my mom. Like, my mom was. she wanted you to hit that ass. See what I'm saying? That's what my mom wanted. My mom wanted you to, she was interested. My mom wanted to know about performance.

She'd be like, are you doing this? Are you good at this? Are these little girls enjoying it? It reminds me of meet the fuckers. Yeah, I'm just, I'm serious. My mom, she wouldn't have done that. But at the same time, we weren't from a pussy over performance,

performance over pussy household, should I say? That's not what we were from. My household was a loving household, with people that loved each other and they loved on each other and the whole nine of my parents intense kinetic attraction to one another. You know, that was the deal.

But Jane's mom is trying to, you know, put them on the right path. There's nothing wrong with it. But eventually, she's going to have to let the boy go. Eventually, she's got to let the boy go. We've seen, we don't know what happens. We know what she said. Why are you shooting bail?

Who are you a bail bossman? Rachel Lindsay, Bell bonds me. No, I'm not shooting Bell. I understand what she's saying, but we've seen a couple of instances. We have no, there's so many more times. And her words. I'm sure Jaden is by himself more than he is with her. I can't tell.

You've seen two things. No, I haven't seen two things. She'd be everywhere. I saw Jaden at a USC, UCLA game, and Regina Jackson was nowhere in sight. Did you look up in the rafters? Y'all say that she's right there with them. Did you look up in the rafters? She was nowhere in.

He was by himself. Did you look at the security booth? I walked past him in like this like a little, the underground spot where like you could get snacks and stuff and she was nowhere to be found. Did you look? Did you? Every time I saw him, she was nowhere, she was not there. Did you do biometric testing?

It's just nobody's taking a picture of that. Nobody's showing when he's by himself. She might have one of these joints on. She might have one. That's what's going to happen to Jayden. Jay Dan is going to be ready to, uh, he's going to be ready to hit some ass and get some mask and he's going to be at a hotel, very nice hotel, and all of a sudden, the bailman at the hotel knock on the door, Mr. Daniels, we have your luggage, he's going to be like,

I already fucking have my. Like, my luggage is in the room. And all of a sudden, his mom, the bailman is going to pull one of those mission impossible, pull the mask off their face, and it's going to be his mom. Boy, get out of here. Girl, get your little fast ass. That's how older black women talk to young flusies. Flusies.

That's how they talk to you. Girl, get your fast ass out of here. Girl, run out to the room. Okay. Mom, you got me again. That's her whole thing. Your mission, should you choose to accept it? And it's a picture of a woman.

I want her on this podcast. I want her to be able to be like, this is, it's enough. I don't think she cares. She cares about the bigger picture, which is that Jaden, you know, achieves all of his dreams. He rises to his potential.

I have no problem with it. I have no problem with it. I have no problem with it, but it is funny. It's funny when they capture it. It is funny. But I don't believe that it's that intense. But I felt like this about eventually, got to let these kids go. Eventually, Levar Ball had to let his sons go.

It did. Had to let his sons go. Levar Ball underrated dad, if you ask me. Levar Ball had to let his sons go. Eventually, you got to let him go. John Halliburton. Might be a good idea. Well, they let him go.

Yeah. Boy, Tyree. Bussing that. See? That young G. Tyrese. I tell you what, though, to this point, these parents that we see that are really involved, these kids are fucking shining.

She did a good job with Jayden. Lovar did a good job with his boys. You got a rap superstar, two NBA players. You got anything else before we go? Any more news on the new Pope? No. People are just excited that he's from Chicago, hot dogs and whatnot.

Well, I got a question for the new Pope because I like to go to Chicago. Harold's chicken, Uncle Remus, which one is he down for? You know, have you had Harold's chicken? Have you had the chicken? No, but I'm going to Chicago in a few weeks. Got to have the Harold's chicken.

I don't get it. I've had the popcorn. The carrots. Garrets popcorn. I had the Harold's chicken. It's fire with the sauce. The chicken itself is, under seasoned and fried too hard.

Oh. Well, I don't get it. People come to Louisiana and they eat shit all the time and they're like, I'm not fucking with it. I know. We take pride in what we have and that's ours and that seems to be what they're doing. But they're also used to the Harold's chicken. Right.

They haven't had our chicken. Well, I'm not saying that our chicken is better. I'm saying they like their chicken. And they're raised on the Harold's chicken. So they really fuck with the Harold's chicken. Like, but, you know, I did the Harold's chicken. I did the deep dish. You know, I...

Oh, pizza? Yeah, the deep dish pizza. Daring, no daring. I mean, all that stuff was good. But what I like about Chicago is one of the best food cities ever. But what I like about Chicago is Chicago, it just might be the dopest city. It just might be the dopest city.

Overall, it could be the dopest city. I know you like Chicago, but I didn't realize what a love you have for it. I love Chicago. It could be... And I think... And I don't know enough to say this. But there used to be in the 80s, this whole New York-Chicago thing. Chicago was the second city.

And there was this tension, New York, Chicago, New York, Chicago. I think that as that waned, Chicago started to enjoy itself in not comparison to another big city. Because when you go to Chicago, it is Chicago shit popping off. they're not comparing themselves or nobody else. It only makes sense that the white people in Chicago lay out on the concrete

next to Lake Michigan. On the concrete they lay out. They just laying out. They act like it's a beach. It's a fucking parking. They got a little man-made beach. There's a little, because Lake Michigan's also in Milwaukee and they do the same thing. They got a little part of the beach, but then it's

a concrete part. They just lay out there. You walk down the little thing in Chicago. By the time you get to the end, nigger, you in San Trope. They are acting like it's a beach for real. It's people in the beach club. It's a beach situation to hold this. You know what it is?

And this is what I appreciate for people who live in places with multiple seasons. They appreciate the good weather. They do. Like the moment it gets above freezing, they are out throwing frisbies. They got the shorts and flip-flops on. They're laying on the concrete. It's like they appreciate the weather. And they get outside and enjoy it.

Where we take it for granted. I walk from the last thing about your. I walk from the Gold Coast where I was staying because that's why I stay when I go there. I'm not fucking around. Okay. I go down there. I go down there and hang out because that's why I went to the Harold's Chicken because when I asked about the Harold's Chicken I should go to, they gave me an example of Harold's Chicken. I had to go to the one that they told me to go to.

So, you know, you're down there. You go there. You want to commiserate, you know, with the people. But I walked from the Gold Coast to Wrigley Field. Oh, wow. With every step I took, I fell in love more. You get down there near Wrigley Field, the Cubs were having a game. You know, it's like the Cubs white's are pretty cool.

Then at the same time, White Sox whites, they're pretty cool too. They're different types of whites. But they really kind of all right. Like, they are. Like, the people in Chicago are kind of all right. The, the, I don't know. Maybe I'm just in love with the city. Every time I've gone, listen, I spent, I used to spend a lot of time there because,

more for a good time. Because when I lived in Milwaukee, they would say, what's their fun to do here? And they'd say, go to Chicago. So we'd go out in Chicago. But I, but that was so long ago. I never really, and I was broke. I never really got to experience Chicago. go. So pretty hair and the girls are going in a few weeks.

Let's see what happens. We'll see if you guys find a love for the city that I have. But shout out to Pope Uncle Remus Harold, Pope Harold, Pope Harold's chicken, the first Harold's chicken pope in the history of America. And maybe he can do something. Maybe he can do something. Maybe he can change something up. I don't know. What does it mean to have an American pope? What does it mean? We're going to find out. thing caps off, but do not stop learning. Get to Chicago, man. It's a great city.

I'm Van Lathan Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. I'm like you just sweat. I don't know. Ka. They say Ka. Hey, hey, they say, they say like Boston. I feel like it's a harder art

in that it's car. Like we go to the bar. You sound like Boston. They say Ka. My man, Anthony, used to say, they say Ka. Don't they? Ray, Ray, is that your Ka? Kanye dropped.

It was terrible. The Bears. The Bears. The Bears. See, Ashley knows. Ashley knows. I've Dick Rose Chicago way too much this show. We're done.

O'4 for four. This is the losing streak show. I want the title to be Van Loses. All right, bye. Did you know if your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees? Get ahead of summer with custom window treatments like solar roller shades from blinds.com and save up to 45% off during the Memorial Day Early Access sale. Whether you want to DIY it or have a pro handle everything, we've got you. Free samples, real design experts,

and zero pressure. Just help when you need it. Shop up to 45% off site wide right now during the early access Memorial Day sale at blinds.com. Rules and restrictions apply. Pts! It's mushrooms with Maddie Matheson. Let me tell you, the secret of how to look like you know what you're doing use mushrooms toss a man eggs noodles boom it's delicious it's not magic it's mushrooms hit up mushroom council dot com and get cooking