Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Fresh Prince Returns, Michael Chandler’s Comments, and School Choice With Camika Royal

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay talk about Will Smith’s return to the public eye and the Black community’s reaction to it (09:25). Camika Royal joins to discuss Jay-Z’s campaign to help underprivileged students, school choice, and the secret issue behind the assistance (40:51). Then, they react to Michael Chandler’s comments about his adoptive sons and his interview with Ryan Clark (1:22:41). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Camika Royal Producer: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Harleine is on. It's I, Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Remember to like, subscribe, and share the podcast, YouTube. Boom! Where'd you get a glass from?

I don't know. Why do you have a glass? Out of the office. I was using it to put sparkling water in to help me with my situation that's going on. I went back to the urgent care yesterday. Are you okay? I've got asophagitis. You have heartburn.

Yeah, but it's inflamed. But I have heartburn, but it's inflamed. The heartburn has inflamed my esophis. What causes that? Stress. Oh, yeah. You know what? When I was studying for the bar,

the first day after I took the bar, I developed that. That is how stressed out I was. And this is why stress is such a real thing. And it's really, you guys really have to take care of yourselves. I had it from the first day after I took the bar until the day I got my results. So for three months, it would just, so I'm not even going to joke with you on this one because you're stressed and you need to take care of yourself whatever it is because I've been there before.

Yeah, I always get stressed out this time of year. What's going on? Summer? The big day, no, man, July 4th coming up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, look at Brown. I know. Like, it's like, I always get stressed out around this time of year.

But they helped me out at the dock. I got like a lytocaine GI cocktail. Is that a numbing? Wait, what is that? It numbed. So they gave me the GI cocktail, right? And they gave me the cocktail. I drank it.

And it, it numbed everything. But then at the same time, it put the, they had the Mylanca down there or whatever it was. Mylanza. I haven't heard that in a long time. Whatever. Maybe it wasn't my lanter, whatever it was. And then they prescribed me some other stuff. So are you feeling better?

This morning was a little rough, but I'm on the mend. I mean, there's really nothing worse than that feeling of feeling like it's coming up and it burns and then it just comes back to it. I was thinking as they, because they give you the lytocaine and it numbs your throat. And I was thinking, I wonder if they use the lytocaine throat numbing in different situations. Like what? Like some performers I've seen that you wonder how it's possible. Let's talk about the show today. I'm just, because your throat is numb.

And then you're just thinking, I'm like, I was thinking to myself. Of course you were. Now it makes sense to see. Because at first I thought these people were just physical freaks. You don't even know if that's happening. I wouldn't put it past some of the accomplishments that I've seen. seen in that arena. Okay.

Okay. And I was like, these people just physical freaks are they like, especially gifted, but they might be using lytocaine. They might be using different numbing situations.

They might. They might. You're so uncomfortable. I'm not uncomfortable. It's just more of like, my mind would not have gone here. I would have been like, man,

let me make, I'm more concerned about my health. Let me make sure I'm okay. And you started thinking, huh. It's a weird thing to have your throat numb. Does it... So you don't feel water going down?

It's a weird. You drink it and then all of a sudden your throat's numb. It makes you want to collapse. Like, ah, whatever. Whatever. You know what? Fuck it. What'd you do this weekend?

I had a good weekend. Saturday was for the girls. We went to Rosee all day. What is that? Apparently it's been going on for years. It's out in Calabasas. at this huge ranch. It felt like I was back at Coachella all over again.

Thousands of people were there. All they serve is rosé, but like all types of rosé, like tequila infused rosé, different flavored rosé. And we went to celebrate a shout-outs to Nichelle Hines, her birthday, had a big party bus. Everybody went out there, had such a good time. Dance, drank, sang, saw people hadn't seen in a while. And then we just, like, kept it going all day.

And then Sunday I celebrated Whitney It's Whitney's birthday Shout out to Whitney Happy birthday to her Go sports Go sports Celebrated her birthday

And then You know just hung out Yeah what was what did you celebrate Whitney's birthday doing What are you guys doing? We she had a dinner that night That I couldn't make Saturday night And then we had Sunday brunch at the proper

What do white people do for their birthdays To celebrate their birthdays You know what she did She did she did a funeral. Have you seen this where people like have a funeral for their 20s as they're stepping into their 30s? She didn't do that, but she did a funeral for her single life because she's manifesting, you know, to not be single moving forward. Now, everybody wore black.

Now, see what I'm saying? Now, I asked the question. I said, what do white people do for their birthdays? And I bet that when I ask that question, so many of the holier than thou watchers of the show were like, oh my God, they do the same things that black people do for their birthdays and whatever. And then come to find out that what she did was so decidedly white. It's so white.

That was a great idea. You asked me, have I heard of anyone having a. funeral for their 20s. As soon as you asked me, I knew, I knew it. Hell no. Black people don't go to fun unless we have to. We don't have fun. That is so white. That's one of the whitest things I've

ever heard. I've seen a lot of white people do that. You could not have gone to that many actual funerals if you're having a funeral for fun. There's no reason why somebody mama crying, you get all of these goddamn flashbacks. That's white.

That's the white shit that I'm talking about. Guys, just have a funeral for my 20s. It's dead 20s and 30s. Everybody dressed up in black and yay, death. No. That's what you're doing. That's like laying something to rest and you're moving forward. But I've seen this before. Not this particular thing type of funeral, but I've seen the funerals of like goodbye to my 20s, goodbye to my 30s. I thought it was creative. I bet you did. I didn't go to that one.

I went to the brunch the next day, but I heard all about it, and I thought it was creative. I bet that I bet that would have been a one-nigger night. It was. Yeah. It was. Yeah. It was for sure. Child to Whitney.

Oh, Whitney's great. Child to Whitney. She's manifesting that she's going to be in a relationship. What kind of guy do you think she needs? Rich. Rich? Like, when you say, okay, let me ask you a question. When you say rich, what's rich?

Is he up 15? Is he up 20? Is he up 30? Definitely eight figures. Eight figures. So 10 million. We're starting at 10. Yeah. I think you got to have, I think you got to, yeah. So we're starting at 10. So she's 10 and up. Winnie is ready to like get married, start a family, you know, take care of, like, she doesn't want to really work. She wants to like have a family and provide in that way. She'll make a great wife to somebody. She's a good person.

Good heart. Good for Whitney. Rich. All right. Rich. Up 10. All right. Look, guys, the goddamn show, we have to get into it, okay?

And I'm feeling great about it. Okay? We got, we got Camico Royal coming on later. Yes. We're going to talk about a big story that broke, which is the fact that Jay-Z is raising $300 million to send kids to private schools in Philadelphia. Yeah. All right. Now when that headline came out, a lot of people were like, oh, my God, that's so great.

But upon examination, it may not be as great as what you think it is. Yeah. Because it involves a political issue that a lot of people think actually hurts black and brown kids from strained school districts all over America. Jay Z's at the center of it But before we talk to Kamika, we're going to talk about another guy Who's also at the center of it too. We're going to introduce you to another villain here.

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Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about trim fire. Tap this ad to learn more about trim fire, including important safety information. All right. Bad Boys Four came out. Did you see it?

I probably saw it early. I did see it. You're so bougie. You saw it early, didn't you? I saw the movie. You got the screening. Whatever. You got the screener.

You saw it early. Whatever. What did you think? Really good. Best one? No. Second best. No.

What's the best one? The third? So, no. I don't know. So this is the order of the bad boys movies. One, four, two, three. Okay, okay. It's the second best one to me.

Okay. It's really good. Well, you're not alone. Mm-hmm. Because in opening weekend, 56 million people are that, That's not million people. None. Hold on.

Wait a second. If, if, if, hold on, I want somebody to do the math right now. Let's say the average movie ticket. Let's, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I want somebody to do the math right now. Let's say the average movie ticket.

Let's just say it's $15. I want people to take it. I want somebody to do the math right now. If 56 million people went to see bad boys, wait a minute. What a minute, if 56 million, let's see, 56 million times 15, bad boys would have made 840 million times in this opening weekend. Whatever.

As soon as I said it out loud, I caught it. Okay. They made $56 million for their U.S. debut. almost twice that globally, over $100 million. At a time when people really aren't, I mean, I feel like Top Gun brought everybody back to the theaters,

and then it kind of died off again. It's a summer blockbuster. You think more people would go. Clearly, they did. And it did better than they expected it to do. They expected it to make less. I think I read somewhere that they thought it was going to do $34 million.

So it did better than that. Were you surprised in light of, because obviously, Will Smith, I mean, we've seen him do since the Oscar slap. We've seen him emancipation. Came out after. Totally different type of movie than Bad Boys 4. This is an action comedy, emancipation, true story, serious, hard to watch.

I didn't watch it. I can't watch any more of those movies, those type of movies. But it did well, got an A-minus from Cinema Score. Obviously, people went out to see it. You liked it. You're a tough critic. Were you surprised at the support that it got? And that it was a good movie.

Yeah. So two great questions. This is what I'll say. Number one, huge, huge, huge, huge deal. Like you said, box office been kind of lukewarm this year. You have to remember last year that you had Oppenheimer and Barbie and Barbie and those are two gigantic kids, right? But this year, you've had a couple of misses. Set the scene here, Fall Guy, underperformed. Right, right. Okay. Then you have Furiosa cut came out underperformed. These are two big movies by big studios. in a summer that is not chalk full of a lot of big movies because of the strike. So a lot of movies had to move off of their summer 2024 release dates because of the strike. So Hollywood needed this, right? Tell you what Hollywood needed. Hollywood needed one of its Star Wars, one of its old Reliables, we heard that,

one of its old Reliables to deliver. That's what Hollywood needed. One of its old Reliables to deliver And guess who delivered The Fresh fucking Prince delivered Martin Lawrence. Now, I'll tell you something right now.

Fresh Prince and Martin Lawrence, Will is not Will Smith anymore. He's the Fresh Prince. Because let me tell you something. There's two different people. Okay. There's Will Smith and there's the Fresh Prince.

There's West Philly. There's West Philly. I'll tell you what I mean by that. This movie is a referendum on Will Smith. Martin Lawrence is great in the movie. Martin Lawrence is an A number one movie star, but this movie is a referendum on Will Smith. First Prince, Will Smith starts doing his thing,

1986, 1987, something like that. Okay. Parents are so on understand drops. Nightmare on My Street drops. Girls in the World and Nothing But Trouble. I'm born in 1980. So there's not too much of my life that I haven't shared with the stardom of Will Smith.

He's just been around. Okay. And he became Will Smith later. He was the Fresh Prince first. So when I think about Will, I think about the Fresh Prince. I want people to think about how much history somebody of my age group has with Will Smith and what it would take for that person to no longer be somebody that's beloved.

Right, right. Right, right. When what happened in 2022 happened, the slap, we had to call it out for what it was. You do not want younger black man to think that violence is an acceptable form of conflict resolution. Absolutely. So yeah, hey, that's wrong. Absolutely. Don't do that.

After that it's over. Seriously. Like, hey, Will, you fucked up. Say sorry. Whatever. After that it's over. I don't know what people thought that people like me were going to do if we were actually going to hold a grudge against somebody that's our celebrity cousin that we've

known for decades that we've watched attain this type of reverence, success, fame. We've watched be a father, a husband. Yeah. All of that. If we were done with Will Smith, no, we weren't done with Will Smith. We were just waiting for his return. Well, exactly. You say it so well. He is like a celebrity cousin. I first knew him as Fresh Prince. I could go on and on and on about how impactful the Fresh Prince was that the Banks family, Will Smith, all of it. I felt very connected to them. And because of that, connected to Will Smith. To me, the out, the people would think we would still hold an outrage. I don't understand what we would be holding on to. He apologized, multiple. He apologized,

times, that's between him and Chris Rock. If Chris Rock wants to hold a grudge, I could understand that. Yeah, I could understand it. If the Oscars, as a, you know, an award show has an issue, because it happened on their platform, makes all the sense in the world. But for us, we are not connected to it. We call out, we do this on the show, we do it in our friend groups, family groups, whatever.

We call out behavior that we don't necessarily agree with. We discuss it. We talk about it. We said it wasn't wrong. And we move on. It makes no sense for us to still be having an issue with it. What would be, yeah. I didn't feel the slap.

It's odd. It's like, what would be, what would we be mad about? Exactly. So he, he, he, he, he, he hit Chris. Look, there's some things, history, whatever, whatever, people know or don't know, whatever. Okay. Hit Chris, had a bad moment, said that he was sorry. There is no point.

and having a culture, if the culture is only there to prosecute. Exactly. If the culture is only there to prosecute bad actors, it doesn't make any sense. Culture should definitely be about holding people to account. Community, should I say, should definitely be about holding people to account. It should be about consequence. It should be about being able to call out bad actors. but it also has to be about understanding the humanity of people.

Absolutely. Well, had a moment. I was over it after it happened. To me, it never did. But I'm so glad that this movie came out and validated his return. I'll tell you something else about the film that I learned just yesterday from a fantastic friend who was telling me. 45% of the people who went out to see bad boys were black. Black.

Yeah. 45% of the people who went out to see bad boys were black. Black audiences came out for a movie that they were interested in and for a star that they are connected to. So everybody in the town that thinks they had the power, number one, to cancel Will Smith. Number one, you don't have the power to cancel them. Mm-hmm.

All right. You can't cancel what we love. And then number two, we will show up to movies that we are interested in. Yeah. We will get out there. So program some stuff for us. Well, I look at the people who were writing articles about will people go, you know, still bringing up the Oscar slap.

And I feel like you're just not connected. They weren't black. I just feel like you're not connected to the culture or what the pulse of it is or how we function or rally around each other or uplift each other or what this community really is for them to underestimate how we would show up to this movie or where we stand in 2024 when it comes to Will Smith. We were, I mean, by 2022, we were cool. I think if you were just basing it off of emancipation, you really didn't understand what was going on.

But even though you and I are sharing this back and forth and we feel this way, not everybody in the black community did. Somebody who's a friend of the show, prominent, for us. voice platform had a totally different take on what Will Smith means to the black community or what he should do. Ashley, can you play it? I'm not surprised at all that pre-sales have simmered. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it ultimately plummeted once all is said and done.

And you know why I feel that way, ladies and gentlemen? Because I think that I'm speaking, not for everybody, not for most, but at the very least millions of people out there when I say what I'm about to say. I'm not nearly as interested as seeing Will Smith in the movies than I am of seeing him doing an actual sit-down interview with somebody to explain why he did what he did. Now I want to emphasize this. Will Smith apologized just days after that infamous slap on March 27, 2020, as much as Will Smith deserved to get his ass kicked for what he did. Being a bully, somebody that's 60 pounds at least heavier than Chris Rock, I don't think he would have done this to Mike Dyson. I don't

think he would have done this to Jamie Fox. I don't think he would have done this to Snoop Dog or 50 cent of somebody like that. He knew who he was doing it to. But it's not just about Chris Rock. See, as upset as I am and still remain to that degree, that's because Chris Rock is my friend and I know him. But that ain't the only reason. The biggest issue that I have a problem with, and I'm not saying that advocating any kind of violence like Will Smith

deserves that now that all of this time has passed. But at the very least, the black community, especially deserves seeing Will Smith sit down. I don't care if it's with the breakfast club.

I don't care if it's with Oprah because you know it ain't going to be me, right? You ain't going to sit down with me because some questions going to get asked, okay? But I don't care who it's with. Cut it off. Hold on. Hold on.

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Man. What, first of all, the black community has to talk about this in an overarching fashion, meaning there are a couple of things here that involve us. Okay. One was the fact that these are two prominent black men have to talk about how we want, not how we want to be seen. Forget about that.

how we want to promote conflict resolution between black men. Valid conversation. Valid conversation. In the moment, after the slap, the only thing you can do is apologize. Now, what I said on the podcast back in the day, you could also let him get his lick back. Didn't seem like Chris wanted that.

I would want my leg back. All right, I'm toxic. I won't want my leg back. Even if Will right now said, hey, if Chris right now said, hey, at my next comedy special, you got to come on the stage and let me smack the dog shit out of you. I would

be like, yeah, I want my leg back. I want a hit and down on a wolf. I do like power slap. You ever seen power slap? Yeah, were they staying at the film? Yeah. That's what I would, boom, power slap. Watch we'll get a little woozy if Chris could, you know, muster up the power. So, but besides that, you don't want to

you don't want to promote violence as conflict resolution. So even that I say, just. But like, Will owes the black community and explanation. He already explained it. Number one, I'm just over the toxic apology cycle that we get in whenever a mistake is made. It's okay for black people to move on. It is. It's okay for black people to move on from things that have happened. Now, obviously, if this were somebody different,

if this were a woman, if this were an elderly person, if this were a child, then to me, that changes the dynamic for me. Okay? For me. Sure, sure. But this was another grown-ass man that we'll have lost his temper with. At the end of the day, we talk about what we want, but at the end of the day, it's just not that big of a deal. People slap.

And get slapped and get slapped. You say sorry or you shoot the fade. Stephen A is saying this right now because Chris Rock is his friend. Which he said. Which he said. I know a little bit something about being blinding because his friend. Because there's no way that Stephen A is while Will Smith is triumphant at the box office, There's no way that he's in good faith

going to go throw cold water on that because he feels like Will needs to give more of an explanation. It doesn't make any sense. No, it doesn't make any sense. When I first heard it, I thought, okay, you're just trying to have a hot take and say something different from what everybody else is saying, which we know when you have a microphone,

you have your own platform, there's a lot of pressure to do that and stand out. Well, once he said that Chris Rock is his friend, and I almost feel like he said it because he knew how trash he was. his take was and it was like, but he's my friend, so y'all, y'all get where I'm kind of coming from when it comes to this. Because it really didn't make a lot of sense. Will Smith doesn't really owe us much outside of the apology that he already gave.

I know what he owes us. Except don't, don't do that in that way. I can't. I know, I know what he owes us. What is he owes us this goddamn hits? Oh, oh, music. No, no, no, no, no. Now hold on for a second. now. Okay. Now hold on for a second. When did the idea of bad boy, okay, can I talk? When did the idea of bad boy four come about pre-slapp or after or post? I know. I was pretty sure that after three they were going to do another one. Three was successful. Okay. Now when I say I support Will Smith. I do. Support him as an actor. I don't feel like I need any more raps. He's coming. He's back with the rap situation. Yeah.

I love, I think I, you know, although, like, there are some other raps that Will Smith has, like, put out that, you know, I like boom, boom, shake the room. Okay. I like, what's that one they do you guys? Get dip now, do. Turn it again now. What was it? Switch. I like Switch.

I like Switch. Anyway. That's the one you like? I like a lot of Will Smith songs. I like to, like, getting jiggie with it. Get jiggy with summertime. At the time. Oh, the pre ones.

Yeah. Like before men and bull. I like men. Oh, okay. Let's go. Let's go. When the new joint hits. Just can't see.

Got to get jig with it. That's it. Honey, honey, take a ride. BK. N. All up in your eye. You got a product. Bad with a lot of stuff in it.

Give it to your friend. Let's spend. Everybody looking at me dancing the jig. Wow. That nigga will back. Fuck them. Fuck these motherfuckers. Man.

That nigga will wheel back. My dog back. Bad boys. Nicar. Go see that bad boys. Nigga. Nika, go see that bad boy, nigga.

Nigga, Nick, that, Nicker, that, Nick, that, Will came back on y'

y'all fucking ass nigga, nigga, go see that bad boy, nigga. Nigg, let's stop Bat Rouge

on that motherfucking nigga, that motherfucker will be that man, that nigga that man,

that man, go see that bad boy, nigga, that's on the bottom, nigga, fuck that shit.

Okay, let's move on. What are we going to call that character? Just to let you know, the idea of bad boy four

was January 2020, so pre-slapped, but they halted production post-SLAPP. And other light-skinned rapper news in their 50s, Rock Nation came out with what people thought was a good headline. Right Nation leads the campaign to help underprivileged students to accrued $300 million in scholarships. Rock Nation is spearheading plenty of philanthropic initiatives in the past, of course,

but this latest one is honing on improving youth education for some. students in Philadelphia. Rock Nation announced it on June 7th. It will assist about $300 million in scholarships. Okay. Spraying awareness from June 10th to June 21st in the Philadelphia area. Those in attendance will have the chance to learn about the past program, Pennsylvania Award for Student Success, which is also known as Senate Bill 757.

Per the bill, students from qualifying households will be able to access scholarship funds. Now, this came out. It looked great. And then people started jumping all over the shit. Because they are saying that Jay-Z is using his ample influence and money to undermine the public school system in Philadelphia. There is a gentleman by the name of Jeff Yass. Jeffrey Yass. Yes.

Yes. In Pennsylvania, he's the richest man in Pennsylvania. 30 billion he is up. He is a future Trump cabinet member. And there are, there's legislation that he is spearheading in order to promote school choice. Yaz is an interesting fellow. Why? I watched an interview of his where he said that there's not much difference in America

between a billionaire and someone who makes $100,000 a year. And what was the justification for that kind of comment? You know what? Just listen to Jeff. Jeff Yass is a meg billionaire. He's the richest man in Pennsylvania. And he likely pays a smaller percentage in income taxes than you do. We're almost at a point in America that everybody has all the stuff they need.

No one's hungry. No one's cold. No one doesn't have some basic health insurance. No one doesn't have some basic health insurance. Yoss makes his money by squeezing a cut out of the everyday functioning of the stock market. This sounds like a man who's totally disconnected. He's definitely very disconnected. Which I feel like is what happens when you get to that level.

Also, $100,000 is not poor. No, but here's the thing. he's there is an increasing number of political activists on the right that are making their presence felt in legislation and in policy all over the country okay Jeff He asked is one of these men he could be a part of Trump's cabinet if Trump would win in 2024 and he's just these bankrolling guys in different situations all over the country. He's got a, giving out millions and millions and millions of dollars to some of the most blatantly far-right candidates in the country. We're talking about Holly, guys like that. He's

trying to affect it. He's a billionaire, up 30 billion, investor in Biden, dance, and other things, but he pays like a 19% tax rate from the way he's been able to game the system. He's also been very involved in the school choice debate. Philadelphia schools. He thinks that there is tremendous waste in Philadelphia schools. He thinks that there is tremendous problems with Philadelphia schools. And rather than fund those problems in the school systems there, he wants to be politically active and bankroll candidates in Philadelphia that will move the school from a more public education structure to one that deals more so, he wants to privatize the education there in Philadelphia.

And look, anytime you're talking about school choice and we're going to bring on Camico Royal in a second to tell us a little bit more about school choice. And maybe why some people who are rich from our community may be wrongheaded in supporting the privatization of school systems. Anytime you see these things take flight in states like Michigan, in states like Pennsylvania, there's always always a ton of money. Normally, normally, a big benefactor donor at the top of the pyramid that is making the school choice switch possible, that is making the charter school network possible,

that is making the privatization of education profitable, possible. There's always normally a lot of money on the other side and Jeffie asks is that guy in Pennsylvania. And when I think about that, I think why? You know, Jeff Yaz has grown kids. He doesn't have kids that are specifically, are particularly in these schools to where it's a personal decision for him in regards to that.

So then I think, well, why is it then? Why does Jeff Yaz want to privatize education? Because there's no government control, which means that you can shape how these individuals are being educated. You can determine what books they're reading, who's teaching in these schools, and basically shape and create the America that you want to see. This next generation of students, you can determine how they will learn. And then literally, almost like soldiers, right? Like little soldiers who are going to go out and create the type of America that you want for yourself.

It's the only reason behind this why you're doing this. and it's got to be called out. And it's extremely problematic. And then not only there's that, you're also creating a greater disparity when it comes to these schools, how students are learning. You're basically kind of doing a way

with the public school education and those that suffer and those that who won't, who can't afford to have a certain education or to learn in a certain way are going to be the ones who are going to suffer in these under-resourced and understaffed schools.

Like, what's going to happen to them? They're just going to go by the wayside. And you don't care. And we have to be honest about this. The criticism here is that Jay-Z and Rock Nation are providing public relations cover for Jeffrey Yass, for Senate Bill 757 in Philadelphia. And these events that are going to be put together

to raise this money will be putting a good face on something that will eventually undermine the public school system in Philadelphia. And look, there's a site right now or a Twitter handle right now, AFT Pennsylvania. It's at AFTPA. It's supposed to the picture of Jay-Z and Jeffrey asked in the same picture. The question is, how up on these issues are some of our luminaries that support some of this stuff?

Are they aware? Because think about this. Let's be, let's, I understand that. Let's think about this for a second. Hearing $300 million for students from certain areas to go to private schools. It sounds like something that's sellable. Sure. It sounds like something that you go out to people and you say, you know what? I'm using my influence to raise money for kids to get a better education.

who could be against that. I wonder sometimes if the depth of the issue is able to, if they can sort of conceive that, if the depth of the issue, if the both sides of the issue, if the potential pitfalls of the issue, if those things are being explained to some of the people that get in these situations.

It's $300 million, right? That they're raising. That they're raising, that they're raising, right? your name, your company is attached to this. It's ignorance, fan. I don't understand how a simple Google search will say, will show you what school choice is. It will show you the pros and cons.

You can literally type it in, and it'll say the pros and cons of school choice, the pros and cons of school vouchers, the pros and cons of privatization of education. I don't understand how you can just say, oh, $300 million is going to. to schools, this is great, and just turned a blind eye to it. That doesn't make any sense to me. If all your friends are billionaires. If all your friends are billionaires, just listen to me.

Then you're, then you should, then you're entitled to all the criticism that comes your way. Of course. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is it's important to dig deep into these issues. You're right. The criticism has come. It's important to dig deep into these issues so that there is so that we don't let them, so we don't give a huge, huge, huge green light. to anyone whose songs that we've liked or whose liquor that we've imbibed to go out there and do things that might be hurting black and brown kids

whether they are full well aware of it or whether or not they don't know. Which is why we have to investigate it and call it out and criticize it. But I do think, though, that when all your friends are billionaires, there's no possible way that you don't start to see the world in a way that is detached. Sure.

You know what I mean? Because this Jeffrey Yaz guy, we played it, is detached. And if he is someone who might be Trump's Treasury Secretary, if he is somebody that you are in close proximity to, the question is, are there enough Camico Royals? Are there enough Tamika Mallories? Are there enough other people who are still in your orbit,

who's ear, who have your ear to be able to be able to, to give you the full gammy. Okay. You're right. I guess, obviously, we are not on the level of Jay-Z. But my immediate question is, all right, well, who are you? Right. I'm introduced to Jeff Reyes. Jeff Yaz, who are you? Right. All right, if I don't even ask that question, $300 million is being raised in scholarships to give underprivileged school kids a better education. Where are they getting the best? My first thought is, where are they getting the better education

in public school or private school? That is the first question I would ask. Then I would say, well, why can't this be, what's going on at the public school system in Philadelphia? Why can't we raise $300 million for public schools because there are issues there? My immediate thought would be, why does it have to go to private schools?

I guess I just, these are basic questions. Hey, Rach, I'm not disagree with you. No, I know, I know. I don't understand how you can be that detached. $300 million for underprivileged, kids, is that where you just draw the line? You don't care where they're going to school, where the money's being allocated.

You just don't ask those simple questions. I guess that's what I can't understand. Okay, let's bring in Camico Royal. We're going to talk a little bit more about school choice. As an issue itself, just we're going to broaden the conversation a little bit and see if we can't get to an understanding of exactly why this has proponents of public schooling

and funding public school. school so up in arms. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis,

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And the question is, what is best for our students? Now, something happened in the news that got a lot of people talking about the concept of school choice, about public schools, about private schools, about charter schools, about what's the best way to educate children that need to have a fair shot here in America. We have a guest that knows a little something about that. Her name is Camico Royal. She's the associate professor and program director of urban educational leadership, advanced studies, leadership, and policy at Morgan State University. Camico, I got to tell you something.

Okay. I asked Twitter who the best person to have on for this conversation was and they led me to you. That's impressive. That is absolutely. Yeah. So the work that you're doing and who you are,

sister, you are seeing. Because I did not know who exactly we should be talking to because we haven't talked about school choice or vouchers or anything in depth here. and they led us to you. Well, I was a little hesitant to participate in the conversation, but I'm appreciative. So the headline was this, and I'll just read it out right here. Jay-Z's Rock Nation will spearhead an educational campaign in Philadelphia that helps K-12 from low-income households secure about $300 million in scholarships to attend the city's private schools.

Now, the headline looked glossy and progressive and helpful to a lot of people, but as soon as it came out, the actuality of what was going on started to seep in. When you first saw it, what did you think? I thought, here we go again. A few years ago, Kevin Hart and Meek Mill, and I'm a native Philadelphia, okay, born and raised in Philadelphia, So I pay attention to Philly stuff. I probably pay more attention to Philly stuff than I do Baltimore and Maryland stuff. But Kevin Hart and Meek Mill were contributing, I think, a few million dollars to private and parochial schools in Philadelphia for kids in underserved areas. So I thought, you know, okay, well, he must be linking with them.

He's following suit. And it was disappointing. You know, I like Jay-Z. I'm a Jay-Z fan. You know, I think the last album I bought was 4-44, and I think about what's better than one billionaire, too, right? And so when you think about it in that regard, then, you know, he's doing what billionaires do.

For those who might not understand school choice and see certain words that are thrown around, can you explain the difference between school choice, vouchers, charter schools, and private schools? Sure. School choice actually is a very loaded term. Okay. And what it means has changed over time. School choice was first entered into sort of our national conversation historically as a response to the Brown v. Board decision of 1954. So all of a sudden, when the courts, when the Supreme Court said schools have to desegregate, then all of a sudden people wanted quote-unquote school. choice. All right. And so that's when you, you can look in Virginia, one of the counties in

Virginia, I think it was Prince William County. I can't recall the actual county closed down its public schools for five years. So they did not have to desegregate in favor of a quote unquote choice plan and they funded white academies to send white students to. Okay. In Baltimore, there's this the superintendent in response to the 1954 board of Brownie board Supreme Court decision said we're going to have a policy of choice. We're not going to say that you have to desegregate. We're going to let you choose what school you go to. So that is the history of school choice.

Now, the way people use it now is that people should not have to just be subjected to whatever schooling is available in their community. And so they should be able to choose. They should have a choice about where they send their children. When you hear that, it makes sense, right? Who doesn't want to have a choice about where you send your children? But we have to be honest about where the notion of school choice even came from. Because as much as people try to dress it up differently, it's not, you know, those roots are still very much there.

In terms of vouchers, vouchers are something that have been touted out over and over and over again. So I graduated from high school in Philly in 95. In the earlier 90s, there was conversation about school vouchers. And the idea is that you take money from the state's allocation or the city's allocation, but usually it's the state's allocation for schooling. And you provide families vouchers so they can supplement what they have to pay to send their children to private school. Okay. And essentially, that's what Kevin Hart and Meek Mill and now Jay-Z are to some extent supporting. Now, I looked up the Kevin Hart and Meek Mill thing right before I came on, and their seven million was going directly to the schools, not necessarily to the families. And Rock Nation, I think they're raising this $300 million. They're not given the $300 million to support these families. And so we don't know, does the money go directly to families? Does it go directly to schools? Right. Which schools? If for some reason those children are put out of, because remember,

these are under-resourced, quote-unquote, children who, you know, in a Philly, they would be from North Philly, West Philly, if they get put out of these private schools. If, their parents can't pay the tuition the entire year. Well, the money that was allotted for their seat in the public school has now been diverted to private school. That money doesn't get diverted back to the public school. So now you have schools that were already underfunded with even less money to meet the needs of their students.

So essentially, this undermines the system of public education that exists in these cities. It absolutely undermines the system of public education. And that's why we saw the backlash we did. on social media. Why do you think that, do you think that people, prominent people, and this isn't about Jay-Z or Kevin Harder-Meek-Mille, but we have to, you know,

do you think that prominent people are, like Jay-Z, Kevin Harder, Meek-Mil, are not educated on the fact that they are undermining the public school system? Or do you think that they have a different version of what they think, education in Philadelphia should be? I don't know what they're aware of.

I think most people, most of the general public, are not necessarily paying attention to what's happening with public schools. You know, Abbott Elementary has in a lot of ways changed people, even paying attention to public schools, right? And what I love about that show is that it actually shows people liking what they do, like the educators, liking each other, liking the children, right?

Finding some joy in the midst of schooling. I think, you know, sometimes people have bad experiences with schools. A number of us, and myself included, have had bad experiences with public schools. I also think that part of what's happening with celebrities is capitalism. It's people think that, you know, you're doing something to go to these exclusive places. So you think that you're getting something if you're going to certain private schools. And so that's where I would see Kevin Hart and Meek Mill and Jay-Z. And even Oprah Winfrey, you know, she created that private school in South Africa, right?

They want to tap into this other thing and don't necessarily believe in public education, usually based on their own experience with public education. Yeah, can you talk about some of the cons with this? Because as we've kind of been talking about, on its face, it's like, oh, they're using their money to better, you know, the education of students who might not be able to get a certain education. They're going to be able to get it through going to these private schools. Can you talk about the cons of why that's not great, whether it's where the money comes from, whether it's a certain group of students that will suffer with this type of money being used to send them to private schools? So, yes, thank you for that question. I want to say I'm a

Philadelphia who loves the Philadelphia Eagles, right? Jalen Hertz, my quarterback. Jalen Hertz in news recently is donating, I think, $300,000 to the school district of Philadelphia to provide air conditioning to buildings that don't have it. Philly has one of the oldest systems in the country. Boston has the oldest school system. Philly comes right behind them. So you've got to know that in urban environments in particular, the infrastructure is old. So you have buildings that have been around for 100 years, right, that are in need of transformation. A lot of, I mean, something as basic as air. When I was a Baltimore City teacher, I started 25 years ago teaching middle school language arts. It would be sometimes hotter in the building than it was outside when we were having a heat wave.

And there used to be a rule that you would get out. If it was 90 degrees before 11 a.m., they would release us from school because it would become too hot in these buildings that don't have air. So I think about the Jalen Hertz contribution, and I hold that up against what I see Jay-Z. Meek Mill and Kevin Hart doing and say, wow, you know, what could $300 million do? for the school district of Philadelphia. If right now we're just talking about air conditioning, we're not even talking about instruction. Now, ask me your question again. I'm sorry. Oh, I was talking about what group of students suffer

when it comes to this type of privatization of education? So, you know, honestly, I would say most students suffer because overall we have, you know, the budget sort of being shifted around so that funds are reallocated from public schools, to private schooling. But there are a set of students in that that are always going to be fine because they have family resources that can fill in the gap. So the students who suffer the most are the ones who are under-resourced who also can't get into these schools or can't stay at these schools

or the money they get, let's say it's a $10,000, you know, sort of voucher, right? Still might not be long enough for their families to their family may not be able to make a back gap for what's happening at these schools. And, you know, I'm somebody who actually went to private school for elementary. After my mother had a terrible experience with my sister in our neighborhood public school, she put her in private school and put me in private school. And so I had a good experience. I think because people thought I was smart, I wanted to learn.

My sister had a terrible experience, right? And so, you know, just because you have funding from the government, a voucher to go to public school, doesn't mean that those families are regarded in the same way as people who are paying for their little bundles of joy to go to these schools, right? The treatment is then not actually, it's not even, right? And so I just wonder what we could do for students, if we're really concerned about the masses of under-resourced students and neighborhoods that have been defunded by city and state and federal governments, what would happen if we would raise funds? for those instead of deciding we're just going to pick out a few and send them to these private schools. How and why are these school districts defunded? You know, I'm trying to think of the nicest way to say this.

Oh, this is our learning. You can say it in the meanest way possible. A few years ago, I had the opportunity to be, we got a new superintendent of schools in Philadelphia, and I was asked to co-lead, one of his, a part of his transition team on a, DEI anti-racism, you know, blah, blah, blah. And in my report to him, in my section of the report, there was a member of the state legislature in Pennsylvania who said something like, why do kids on the McDonald's track need algebra one? Why do they need algebra?

And so my question is, how do we decide what track somebody is on at 13 years old? if we really believe in the power of school and schooling, if we believe our schools are more than just housing bodies, right? We actually believe we should do some teaching and learn that maybe something we do in there has the power to transform somebody's life and set them on a different track. If we believe the thing that we tell students that schools are supposed to be the great equalizer, then we would fund them accordingly. But what happens is that gentleman I just referenced,

that's the type of person that makes decisions for what happens in cities, especially. So in Annapolis here in Maryland, you got folks like that making decisions for Baltimore, right? And for PG County. Now, you'll bring people to Baltimore to boost up your tourism and to have those tourism dollars, but you don't want to fund what's happening with public schools. Part of how that has happened in Philadelphia is that a lot of business people and legislators, even when they're from Philadelphia, they weren't educated in Philly schools. They were primarily educated in Catholic schools, right?

So for decades to sort of see yourself as somebody, you didn't go to the public schools. And there was a number of reasons for that, right? I don't think my mother was treated well at the high school in Philadelphia. She attended where she graduated from in 1965. But it doesn't mean that we don't have a right to have access to our public schools and we don't make them any better by taking money away from them from saying, well, we don't need to fund something like Algebra 1. When those are the questions you're asking, the money and how money is allotted for those schools, who's suing problems. It seems simple to me.

I guess I just don't understand how if you can raise $300 million, why would you just not give it to the public school system? Can you speak to if this is motivated because we see other people with money, putting their money behind this type of initiative? Can you speak to politically maybe what that represents? Because I just don't understand. You got $300 million. Give it to the money.

the students who are under-resourced or schools that are understaffed, and so they can be better. It just seems simple to me. You know, a lot of us don't believe in us in our own capacity, right? A lot of us are okay with separating and stratifying and trying to outpace our neighbor. A lot of us don't believe everybody should have access. You know, we hear things culturally, like, you know, this is why we can't have nice. things, right? Or we hear people talk about black excellence. And I find that there is often a hubris among people with a couple dollars. They think they know something. They think they know

something that other people somehow don't know. And so, you know, when you're a lot of times, when you believe in public schools, people feel like that's substandard. And so they want to throw money after what they see as, you know, good or something like that. Private school is also a status symbol. It's a status symbol of wealth. And so it doesn't surprise me that business people would sort of try to partner with billionaires and rappers and all of this sort of stuff to make an image of their private school. I don't know how to explain it beyond. It's just plain old American capitalism that I feel like our own, I don't know if I want to call them cultural icons, but our own folks with a couple nickels feel like they, you know, they need to. You know,

to do the same stuff. Are you familiar with a billionaire and political activists in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area, and Jeffrey Yass? Yeah. Yes. What position does he play in situations like this, the Lifeline Scholarship Program that exists there, break that down for people? So part of the reason I'm hesitant to talk about him is because I only know what I've seen

people talk about. I haven't researched him myself. I want to say that first. But what I hear is that he's been bankrolling. First of all, during the city, the last mayoral race and the city council race, I understand he was bankrolling several candidates who would not be. One of the words you used when we first started was progressive, who would be the opposite of progressive, right?

That he was sort of funding those things. And lately I've seen that he quite possibly will be in a Trump White House if Trump goes back, like a cabinet member or something like that. Right. So, you know, I mean, ain't no way in the world I would trust that. You know, I, from what I saw on social media, I can tell what type of time he was on from who he was supporting for the mayor of Philadelphia when people were still in the primary. So, you know, I mean, I see him as highly problematic from what I can tell. How are, how is it that, and I guess this is more specific to school vouchers, if they're taking money that's public money, so taxpayers. money. Absolutely. And then using it to fund going to private school, which is not regulated in the

same way. How is this possible that taxpayers are spending their money using their their taxes are being used for education that they really, that the government has no input on? People make the opposite argument, actually. Why would my tax dollars go towards public schools that I'm not using? if I pay, why am I paying into a school system when I want my kids? I'll tell you the truth. I adore my father. My father's 83 years old. My father felt that way.

My sister and I were at private school. And my dad was like, all this money we got to come up with my, I call my Blue College scholar, all this money we got to come up with to send y'all over here to this school. You know, ain't a way I should be paying all this in taxes. But what I know as an adult human being is that we want to have a well-funded public school system. I want to have good roads to drive on. I don't drive on all the roads in the United States of America. I don't drive on all the roads in Maryland.

We want to have, we're going to pay the taxes anyway because don't act like they're going to send the money back. They're not. They're not going to decrease the taxes, right? We pay these things anyway. If we don't educate people, there's a whole lot of things that can happen, not just to them but to us. I think often about last year, this time last year we were dealing with the smoke that was coming down from Canada on the East Coast. I don't know where y'all are, but all of the smoke was, you know, you got to go in. side because Philadelphia, Maryland, right? How connected are we that even some wildfires in Canada

are impacting us in Maryland? So it's the same thing with schools. If we don't put the money into public schools, we will deal with the fallout from that. School choice proponents, people that are in favor of voucher systems or privatizing the public school system, what do they think are going to happen to the public school? Are they looking forward to school closures? Do they want it to be a completely private system? And if it's a completely private system, then, I mean, not everybody can afford that.

Like, what's the end goal of, of what do they see for a public school system? Have you noticed that a certain demographic of people refer to public schools as government schools? Yes. Right. But they also position the government as, you know, big government. And also the government is problematic. So I think they have a lot of different ends.

There are some of them that don't want to see a public system exist. And if it does exist, they want it to be market-based. So they use terms like people vote with their feet, right? That if this school isn't doing well, people will pack their children up and send them to some other school. They just don't want tax dollars going to these schools. I think public schools are people see them as one of the last sort of markers of socialism. And I just think they're interested in something very different, whether it's charters that you can open and close, depending on people's whims, or it's a private system that, you know, the best of the best can get into or those with enough money. And the rest of them, they feel like, you know, whatever happens to you happens.

It's the survival of the fittest sort of ideology. If you are given a voucher to attend a private school, does the private school that you want to go to have to admit you? No. No. Actually, in preparation for our conversation today, I called one of my close girlfriends. We've been close since high school, so almost 30 years. And her three children went to private schools in Philadelphia at different times. They definitely don't have to admit you.

and there's a number of factors that play into it. And even if they admit you, they don't have to fund you. You know, it all depends on how they, the space they have, how they see your values. For some schools, they see, oh, this kid, you know, they score great. They'll be an asset to us academically. For the most part, I would say, it's athletes in a lot of our cities

who get to go to private schools because those private schools are trying to beef up their athletic teams with, you know, young black men and young women to an extent on their teams. I guess last question for me. It's just like, what do we do here? Because when you see what's happening in Philadelphia and school choice is really starting to pick up. I mean, it's in multiple states across the country. What can be done? Because it just seems this disparity, they're trying to create this disparity even greater

within the education system now. And as you were just describing, I mean, they're already cherry-picking which students that they want to bring into their schools. So it's a greater gap between the haves and the have-nots. Other than having a conversation like this, how do we bring more awareness to what's happening in public education and how we can even get the word out to like a J-Z,

assuming he doesn't know what's going on or whoever else is a public figure that's involved. Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I think again about somebody like a Jalen Hertz, and I wonder who spoke to him that make him sort of do something different, right?

And as far as I know, he's from Georgia, out Texas, something like, yeah, which is a very different sort of setting. You know, when I think about Jay Z rapping about Marcy projects, I can see why somebody who was coming from Brooklyn, and might not view public schools with this, like, glowing impression. I think that we have to have more conversations with people and hope that we turn out enough disciples saying,

y'all, let's imagine what we have the possibility to do. I think far too often we assume the conclusion is foregone, and it's not, right, for all of us. I think that we have to keep talking to each other about what our schools could be if we decided to invest in them. We, public schools, especially those who serve problem, primarily black and brown students in this country have been operating as if you are shooting a ball with your hands tied behind your back and your feet, you know, tied too, right? Like, we have always, they've never really been funded in the way they should be.

And so all of our feelings, all of our judgments, looking at all these outcomes is based on people never having what they need. So we have to start to ask ourselves, what would it look like to give these schools what they need? And that's not just conjecture, right? I was not expecting this to happen, but the Supreme Court for Pennsylvania, they actually had a lawsuit. They decided they named a year ago in a 700, over 700 page decision that the schools in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania have been inadequately funded. And they're supposed to be fixing that.

Now, I'm a bit of a skeptic, so I tend to believe these people in the legislature are going to do whatever they can. They're going to court themselves to still figure out ways not to give money. to black districts in the Commonwealth. So that would be like Philadelphia, Pittsburgh. But I mean, even the state legislature, even the, I should say, the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania and say we haven't been doing this right. Kamika, how can we support you?

How can people support people who are actually championing public schools and education, equality for everyone? Where do we go if we want to fix the problem? Well, I would say if you want to learn more about the problem, I would definitely say go buy my book. Okay. Talk to us about it. My book is called Not Paived for Us, Black Educators and Public School Reform in Philadelphia. It came out in 2022 on Harvard Education Press. It's available easily from Amazon. I love to support my friend Mark Lamont Hill, his bookstore, Uncle Bobby's. You can order it online from there.

you can also order it from the publisher. My book got the American Educational Research Association's 2024 Outstanding Book of the Year Award. It is an academic book, but it was very important to me that it spoke directly to people, that it didn't need to sound academic. So it is well researched and it has good citations, but I wanted people to feel like I was having a conversation with them.

And so I definitely hope that people would want to read that because it looks at 50 years of the politics of school reform for black educators in one city. And it's happening in a lot of cities around our country. If you are interested, if you are an educator and you're like, you know, what can I do? I want to learn more about this. I'll say that we are admitting students for fall 25 at Morgan State University in the School of Education, in the Department of Advanced Leadership Studies and Policy. I run our urban education leadership program.

And I think, I mean, I'm loving being at Morgan. I think it's a, and we have an online program, online synchronous. So we'd love to have people come and send in an application to see if you could join us. If none of those things interest you, then I would say wherever you are in your community, there are people who are already fighting for public schools. You probably can find them via social media. I would say find them and go talk to them and find out what they're doing and ask them how you could help. I would say sit with them, see what you can learn from them, and then join it.

I also encourage people to talk to their elders because always in every community, there are elders who have also been in the fight a long time. And far too often, we look past them. We assume they don't have anything to teach us. And if we can be quiet enough and humble enough, there's a lot we can learn about how to run this next leg of race. Camico Royal, thank you for joining us on Higher Learning Today. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

All right, no problem. Thank you, sister. Bye. Y'all take care. Bye. Okay, well, we'll see what happens now. I mean, if you're in Philadelphia, go to some of these events. Yeah.

I would hope that they would have, it would be kind of like a town hall setting where you can ask these questions. June 10th to June 21st, they're hosting it in Greater Philadelphia. Where can they go? Go to pass it forward, PA. dot Squarespace.com forward slash events. And this is the Rod Nation adventure you're talking about. Yes, yes. All right.

Caitlin Clark beat. You love her. I mean, this is becoming a literally a weekly segment segment on Caitlin Clark. We should make it a weekly segment. I would rather not. Why not, man? You promote the W.

So she is the W is what you're saying. She's in the W. She's, but we're not talking about the W&B as a whole. We're talking about Caitlin Clark. But she's, but you're promoting the W if you're promoting Caitlin Clark. No. I'm getting annoyed. the commentary.

And it's not Caitlin Clark's fault. Yeah. It's the fans. New fans. New fans of the WNBA. New fans of the WNBA who are here just for the Caitlin Clark of it all and are just not understanding what's been happening when it comes to how this league works and the players within it. She was left off the 2024 U.S. Olympic Women's Basketball roster. Two other sources, two sources were talked.

Talked to. the both longtime USA basketball veterans with decades of experience told USA today that there was concern over how Caitlin Clark's millions of fans would react to what would likely be limited playing time on a stacked roster. Okay. There were other snubs as well, other people who didn't make the team. Sure. But most people think that Caitlin Clark probably should have been on the team because of her appeal

and the opportunity to grow the game on the international level as well. just take that on into the summer in Paris. Do you think that her being on the roster would grow the game? Yes. So do you think that that alone should have given her a spot? Yes. Interesting. So in the history of Team USA when it comes to the women's team,

only four rookies have made that team. Yeah. Diana Tarasi, Cynthia Fowles, Candice Parker, Brianna Stewart. And you think Caitlin Clark deserves to be on there because of her popularity. Do I think she needs to say the- Because she's not the best guard. Say the key word again? Do I think what?

That she deserves a spot because of her popularity. No. Then why do you think that she doesn't deserve a spot? Deserve is the wrong word. Oh. What's the word? The word is, should she have been on it? Yes.

Why? Because she's popular? Because- That's the only reason. If I would have done it, yeah, then yes. If I would have been making the team, I would have thought about the best way to continue to position the sport to grow. And I would have put her on.

And by the way, this explanation here, this is a totally cynical reason to put her on the team. Sure. Well, okay, well, then that plays into the people who said they feared putting her on because she wouldn't get a lot of playing time. I get that. So do you think that it's beneficial? All right, you want to put her on there?

because her name being attached to it will put more eyes on the team as they're playing in the Olympics. But if she's not playing, are more people going to watch? Yes. And if they do watch, is it good to get the negative attention

because people are bitching these new fans because she's not playing? Yes. I don't agree. I personally think that having a conversation about the W and about women's basketball

and about all of these things is illuminating to some of it. You would learn more about the process that goes into picking the players. You learn more about who's better than Caitlin Clark. You learn more about the women that are playing

in place of Caitlin Clark as she sits on the bench. The cutaway to her sitting on the bench, she's pouting, she's weird, at the press conferences after everybody. Don't ask me no Caitlin Clark questions. All of that stuff, believe it or not, is part of the package of bullshit that grows a game.

That grows a game. And to me, to me, for the most cynical reasons ever, for the most cynical reasons, I would have put her on the team. And I think that they should have put her on the team. And I think it was a mistake not to. Well, with that kind of reasoning, then Brani should be your first round, first top 10, draft pick. That's different.

that's different. Why? Because the NBA has already has the attention. Let's go back to something. Brony in the high school McDonald's All-American game. They put them on a team. Let's be honest. Bronny should have not been a McDonald's All-American.

Okay? Brony did not deserve to be a McDonald's All-American. However, they put Brony on the McDonald's All-American team because they knew that that would make people tune in to watch the McDonald's All-American game. They knew that people would be more interested in the game. They knew that that would make LeBron James more interested in the game. Did Brony deserve to be on the McDonald's All-American team?

No, but I see why they did it. Now, in terms of the draft, that's a little different. The reason why I say the draft is a little different is because in that position in the draft, this is in professional league where you're putting players on the team that you think that can help you. And in that situation, the players that don't make it are going to have a tougher road to their professional goals if they pick somebody just because they're LeBron James Jr. And the NBA also doesn't need that. Yes, as fans of the sport, is this the type of game we want to create? It doesn't matter. This is the type of game that it is.

Well, it's not yet. Let's talk about the WNBA. It's not. Caitlin Clark's not on the roster. Yeah. So it's not the type of game yet that exists. But what I'm, when I say- The fandom will still be there.

We're already talking about it. When I say, when I say this is the type of game that it is, what I'm saying is that this is the deal. sports as we look at them, right? Sports as we look at them, they are partly about the amazing accomplishments of these athletes and what they can do and how good they are. They're also just partly about athletes you want to watch.

And that's the part that you can never, ever, ever forecast. You cannot forecast why somebody connects with a fan base. You can't. You can't. But when it does happen, you have got to capitalize on it. I feel like, and I agree with you 100%. I love what's happening. I believe in capitalizing on the popularity of Caitlin Clark.

I love that games are getting sold out. I love that all the attention that's going to the WNBA. I feel like there is a line. And I am glad that they drew it. That doesn't mean that she deserves a spot on an Olympic team. You're right. She doesn't. She doesn't deserve the spot.

But she should have been on there. I do not think that we need her on the roster. Okay. Look. I think the right decision was made here. And I think that it makes, it still angers a fan base, these new fans of Caitlin Clark. And I think that they'll still watch and rally around her in a somewhat delusional way even more. And this is coming from the delusion of a person who said that they could hold her to 15.

Yeah. Have you thought about this? In the prime. You thought about this? on this. I said in my prime. I can't go back 17 years. But you understand, though.

Understand what? It's ridiculous. I mean, I support you. I will put my money on you, like a dollar. I don't think it's ridiculous. You don't think it's ridiculous that you could hold Caitlin Clark to 15 points in the game. Me, Rachel.

You don't think it's ridiculous. You don't want to talk about it. See? You don't even want to talk about it. It's nothing to talk about. Okay. Well, if a player, God forbid, but if a player gets hurt? They're still not going to put her on that bitch. That's what I was going to say.

Do you think that she would be an alternate? Nah, because its players, there were actual... They're better guards that deserve to be there. There were actual snubs. There were actual snubs. Here's a thing. I'll say it again.

If you're putting Caitlin Clark on Team USA, say, it's not because she's one of the best 12 or 15 or how many every they have. Yes. It's not. It's not because she's one of the one. It's because you understand that people are going to want to watch more, that you feel like she is an asset in terms of what she brings to the team and the brand. Yeah.

And look, once again, we talk about it. Jake Paul is not a fantastic boxer. He's not terrible boxer. It's interesting. It's hard. He's not an elite pro boxer. Put it to you like that. But there's a reason why people are interested in watching him box.

There's a reason why people are interested in people doing stuff. Sometimes people care. They want to see it. And when you catch that lightning in the bottle, to me, you have to use it. But look, I get it. Guys, she'll make the 2028 roster. It'll be in L.A. You guys better go out in support and watch her.

Her game will get better. She'll get more physical. She'll beef up. She won't have as many turnovers. And she'll make the team. I watched Trump say that there was a choice between getting electrocuted and being attacked by a shark. That if there was a choice? He picked.

He picked the shark. Trump was talking. I mean, look, you guys... What is the segue? So, I'm just... So I watched the Trump rally. Okay. He was in Vegas.

And Trump was talking to a guy. He said that he was talking to a guy, and the guy was... He sold boats. And he said he sold the boats. And the boats he sold had the mercury outboard motors on them and stuff like that. And Trump was talking about the fact that... He eventually was going to have to sell boats with electric... motors. Didn't want to do that. Okay, he's talking about the electric takeover and what crooked Joe Biden

and the rest of these people are allowing to happen with the, they want to turn all the vehicles election. And Trump said he was talking to this guy and he said, well, what if the boat sinks and you have a choice of staying on the boat as the water is running into the electric motor and you want to leave the boat because you're going to be electrocuted by the water. Now, the water running into the motor, but about 10 feet away you see a shark. What are you going to choose? And the guy said that Trump, he told Trump, no one's ever asked me that question before. Trump said, that's because, you know, I've gone to, you know, the whole MIT situation and whatever. I don't know what that is. He didn't go to MIT. He went to Yale from what I remember.

And he was like, I got to choose the shark. Then he also drifted into a discussion about shark attacks and why sharks are attacking more frequently than they used to. And I watched it and I was thinking to myself, you know, man, what the fuck is going on? Like, what are you talking about? Who are you talking to? Like, what the fuck is going on? You guys are going to see me increasingly turn the heat up on Trump and the Trump supporters.

Just talking about it as we get closer. Yeah, you're all in. watching rallies. You should attend one. I'll go. I'd go with you. Let's go to a Trump rally. Let's go to a Trump rally and we talk to the people there. We can do that.

My boy Graham was in the comments, fighting on behalf of Trump. Who's this Graham? Remember Graham I had the conversation with him on IG Live? Oh, vaguely. Yeah, Graham, Amber Rose. We'll go with him. Yeah, we'll go with him. Like, he'll fit right in there.

He was fighting on behalf of Trump. Well, I tell you what. Don't do it. When Trump's got you, he's got you. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Cream. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming.

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you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech. you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Are you watching the Pivot podcast? No. No. Why are you saying?

I don't. It's good. It's great podcast. Oh, I catch the clips. Right. And they always have great. Great conversations. Yeah, yeah, they do.

Like, Ryan is growing exponentially. Like, he's not that he needs to grow, but he's so good at curating the conversation. They had Michael Chandler on. and Michael Chandler had talked about he's got he's adopted some kids well tell people who Michael Chandler is the UFC fighter because I wouldn't know if I hadn't he adopted two boys and these boys are young black men okay and he had been on

the Sean Ryan show and he's white Michael Chandler is white thank you Rachel see what I'm saying and he said on this show I'm not raising black children I'm raising children whether you're black or white no matter what race that you are. There are certain things about being a man and being a good man when it comes to character and integrity and safeguarding the helpless and sticking up for people, for those

that need it. And I thought it was interesting back and forth on the Pivot podcast as Ryan Clark actually took the time to talk to Michael Chandler about why he feels like that might not be the white way, the right way to approach it. Play the audio.

I'm not raising black children. I'm raising my Yeah, I mean, I think that sound bite obviously can be clipped. That little five seconds can be clipped and it's, and of course, I would say, wait a second, that's, but if you dive deeper into it, right, it was all about their, their skin color is not the most important thing about them. Rob, see you with your kids, you know, they're your kids. And I know the type of love they get, the type of upbringing that you're giving them. And I think they're so blessed to have both you and Bree from a,

black man's point of view when we talk about like just the sound bite and I listen to it all. I read about I read it all from a transcription standpoint. It's there are things that we encounter because of our skin color that people who are not African American can't necessarily understand. And that's why I thought you gave the best answer you could give without having the conversation with someone who has been pulled over and been scared, with someone who has been called the N-word, with someone who was thought of less than strictly based on the color of our skins.

For you, you're just thinking with your heart. And you're preparing the world as a man who loves all people when you have to prepare your sons for a world that hates them, just because of the color of their skin. And I think that's just such a, one, it's a difficult conversation because we talk about it. Older people in our lives did it with fear, which I don't think was the correct way.

They made us scared of things. And I love the fact that you don't want your babies to be scared, and you're telling them one day you're gonna change the world. But I do believe that was part of like the backlash of it. It was that people who have been through the hurt that we have sometimes because of the color of our skin, was like, man, you may be doing them a disservice because your love is so deep

by not teaching them the hate of the world. And I've seen you, man, like, you love this country. Like, we talked about it at the White House. We don't want to be anywhere else, but there are uglier parts of it. What's your thoughts? I mean, Ryan was right. Like, everything that he said is so true.

And I think he said it in a way where hopefully on Michael Chandler, even though I don't think he will, will understand it. from the perspective of a black man. You know, it's interesting that when Chandler's talking, Michael Chandler's talking, he says, oh, well, that's just like a five-second clip.

But if you go deeper into it, I don't talk about their skin color. You know, he talks about how he wants them to be, everything for them to be judged by their character. That's a noble thought. Nobody's going to take that away from Michael Chandler. That's just not the society that we live in. And that might work for your children as they're young, but as they become older,

and they have to navigate this world, you're preparing them for failure. Because although you have that outlook, most people don't. And I don't think that it's harmful to tell them how the world may see them, encounters that they may come into. That's just equipping him with them with the tools that they need to survive. It doesn't mean that that has to be how they leak go into every situation. But I'm sorry.

Michael Chandler, they sound like good people. he and his wife, it's great that they have adopted children who did not have parents. But these are the type of people I don't want raising black children. I'm sorry. Michael Chandler posted on his social media a photo of Trump. And he wrote, he'll always have number 45s back. He said, you've been in my corner and now I'm in yours. You know where I stand and you know who I stand with.

See you at the top. That is in reference to Trump. you are raising two black men, boys will become men, and that, and you're sticking behind Trump, who continues to do things that undermine black men, who historically has been racist to black men, and this is who you stand behind. I don't understand. You don't understand what it is to be connected to blackness by any means. And I'm not saying that white people can't adopt black people.

I'm not going to say that. But if you do, okay, man is. If you're listening, he looked at me. I'm not going to knock that. I'm not going to knock that. But what I would hope is that you would understand that you're raising someone who does not look like you and who does not walk this earth in the same way that you do.

And that you would put measures in place for them to be equipped with the tools for success so they can have the best opportunities and walk into the situations with the correct mindset. If you're supporting a Trump and you're doubling down in 2024 after what you've seen Trump do since he's stepped on the scene as he started to run for president in 2015 or know the history of what he's represented in this society or where he stands with black people, I do not understand how you can stand behind him. This, I feel so sorry for those children. I'm sorry. It does not mean that these are not good people, but they're raising them in the wrong way.

Oh. Okay. I saw this story. This is a story. It goes back to July 2019. There's a guy named Tony Tricone. Cool name. Tony Tricone. His wife was pregnant at the time. And he was stationed in Italy. He was in the military. or Tony. And he spent 200 bucks to ship a Tupperware container from Italy to Texas. And he had somebody there

fill the Tupperware container with dirt, soil. And then he had the Tupperware container shipped back to Italy

so that when his baby was born that his baby could be born over Texas soil. Okay. All right. Why am I bringing that up? Why? Yes. Because being a Texan is a cultural designation. You're a Texan. I'm a Texan. You're proud of being Texan. I am. Texan for all kinds of different reasons, right?

It's a cultural designation. Initiating someone into a culture and creating the value for that culture is a staple part of a parent's job initiating someone into a culture, getting them into that culture, creating the value for that culture,

telling them why that culture is beautiful, why that culture matters, it's an important part of a parent's job. I appreciate what Ryan said. Appreciate it. What everyone is. have to say about this when it happened. But I do think there's something that I would have added.

When we talk about telling kids about their blackness, about what it means to be black, oftentimes we drift into catastrophe a little bit. This is what's going to mean when you're pulled over. This is what's going to mean when you run into the police. This is what's going to mean when you're trying to apply for a job and you need to be ready for that. All true.

We're missing something, though. Being black is amazing. Absolutely. Being black is fantastic. A virtue of who you are, there's access to a lineage, to a community, to an understanding

that is specifically wonderful. Just like that gentleman wanted his son or his kid, even from the earliest days of his life, to be able to say that he was born over Texas soil because he realizes that there's something special, in his opinion, about being a Texan, that is how I feel about being black.

And the question is, does Michael Chandler, his wife, whomever he's raising his kids with, does he have the appreciation for black culture that would make him say to his kids, this is what you are a part of. This is where you come from. This is what you're involved with. This is who you are.

These are the people that sacrifice for you to be where you are. These are the dances. These are the modes of celebration. This is what that means. Because if you raise these kids and they are not, black, then it's not about the fear that you're taking away from them or the understanding of the cultural or the socioeconomic ceiling that they might have or what they're up against. Oh, that's true.

But what about the beauty you cut them off from? What about the belonging, the sense of who they are, the sense of understanding of the end jokes of the parties of all of that stuff, of the food, of the history of all of that part of it. What about that part of it? Do you care if they have that part of it? Do you care if they have an understanding of that? Is black culture beautiful enough for you, for you to be able to say, hey, I want these kids who are black to experience that? Because I think about that and other things. I think about wanting any kids that I might have to be able to experience Louisiana. I want them to be able to experience South Louisiana. I believe that my culture as being from

South Louisiana is beautiful and unique and valuable. And I want them to be able to have that. Do white people. Does a white man raising black kids, does he think of black culture in that way? And if you do, then what you would want to do is find a way to immerse and introduce your black kids to that black culture because they will be enriched for it. Yeah. I don't think a white person can ever feel what you just said or truly understand that. But what they can do is understand that they don't and then put them with a white person. You know, whether it's... That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, like I do. And I don't think based on what Michael Chandler said, not on the pivot, but on the podcast before, the way he describes it, he really wants his children to live in a colorblind society. So I don't think for him, for him, that's possible. I'm sure that that's all the, you know, that's the deal. But I guess what I'm saying is that I think you're pretty well.

I understand what I'm saying. Yeah, I agree with you. You're absolutely right. I just don't think for him, he'd have to change his... current thinking to adopt that and provide that kind of lifestyle for his children. Look, let me tell you guys something. That's enough goddamn show. Look, a lot of stuff going on.

Political season, heating up. Yeah. Heating up. The post-conviction poll numbers are coming in. And it looks like that Trump might be taking a slight hit. Slight hit. He's raising money, but it looks like maybe. And as sweet states are still a problem, but it looks like Trump might be taking a slight hit. I hope that's the case and I hope that trend continues, but it is only June.

We still got debates. We got debates at the end of the month. First debate. I hope that the Biden administration is seriously looking at how Americans are feeling about the issues. I'm serious about this. When I say the issues, I mean here and abroad. Yes. In client countries as well. It's very important that they pay attention to the fact that blanket support for things,

despite what people see, it has the very real chance of costing them an election. We'll see. Take thing caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Van Lacey, Jr. Thank you to Camico Roy. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Okay.