Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Historic 67th Grammys, the Luka Trade, and a Tariff War

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay start today’s episode by talking about the historic wins, controversial moments, and surprises from the 67th Grammys (05:21). Senior staff writer and fellow podcaster Justin Charity joins to give his opinion on the Grammys before discussing his Ringer podcast on the Kendrick-Drake beef culminating in Kendrick’s Super Bowl performance (27:46 ). Later, we talk with ‘Real Ones’ host Logan Murdock about the shocking NBA trade news (46:18). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Hollering is on. It is I, Van Lathan, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. When the Grammys come on, I always realize how many of these records I like. Yeah.

Because I haven't heard a lot of these records. Oh, well, then who was new to you? I'll be honest with you. It's Benson Boone, isn't it? I don't even know who that is. The guy who always flips off the piano. I've never seen them. I have no clue who that is.

But I haven't listened to Sabrina Carpenter and Chapo-Rone. Chaparone. Chaparone, whatever. I haven't, I hadn't heard their music. Pink Pony Club. I love that record. Love that record.

She did that record. I love that record. I listened to that record this morning in the shower. The record made me feel free. She's good. And so we're going to talk about her in a second. And then I had never heard espresso.

Espresso. Espresso. You're one of those. Expresso? Espresso. I'm a mega. Espresso. You never heard?

I never heard that song. That's a great song. I liked her little performance, too, where she was like everything was going wrong and stuff. Yeah, it was really cute. It was cute. She was up there. So I enjoyed,

and these pop records are records that I like. So I've been listening to Chapel Rhone all morning long. I think she's great. So you had heard of her, obviously, we've talked about her on the podcast. I heard about the controversy sound. But you had never heard her music.

Man, look, I'm going to put to you guys my mix of what's in my mix. Hot to go. You like that now? How to go crazy. This is one of the mixes. So my title will give me a mix of songs to listen to. It's a custom mix every day. And so that's what I listen to for the week.

This is the custom mix. Get back ludicrous. Get your mind right. Jeasy. The I'm So Hood remix. Stay Fly, 3-6 Mafia. Ain't no future in your front MCBree. Like, this is the music I listen to.

The Weather, Nipsey Hustle, I listen to that record every day. I'm a hot boy, the hot boys. Seen it all, Jeezy, A ball, MJG, like sipping on some scissors, throw some D's. I was listening to. You know what I'm saying? All there, Jeezy. Lots of Jeezy on here. Duffelback boy.

This is the music I've been listening to. Great. I like it. This is what I've been listening. And then Anita Baker. And then that's it. But these new records, I like these records. You don't like Anita Baker?

I can't get into her. I know that's a controversial dick. You don't like Anita Baker? She doesn't, don't like as, as, She just, her music doesn't move me in that way. It doesn't reach me. I've tried. I've tried.

Wow. I've tried. It, it, and this is the, that is the era of music I can speak on. I just, it's not that she's bad. It just doesn't resonate. It's not that she's bad. I don't want people to think that she, I don't think she has a beautiful voice. It's just the music and her songs just don't resonate with me.

I'm sure there's somebody who's a legend that's the same for you. There's got to be somebody who, because I used. Before I get like just. Right. Let's think about this. A legend, like a legend that I don't really fuck with their music. Yeah. Like a black legend.

Yeah. Yeah. Because like, you know, we ain't talking about like that. Yeah. Because I'm not all on the Beatles like that. I got to think about it. But I'm, I would have to think. See, the thing about Anita Baker is this, though.

The music was so omnipresent. I mean. I get it. It's so omnipresent. like just throughout my entire life. Same old love. All of that stuff. I can't stand.

I apologize. I think my mother used to play that all the time. And I was just like, so you hear that nothing. I feel. Yeah, I do. I change it. I'm like,

but there's got, I want you to think about that for a second. There's got to be somebody. From that era that you're like, doesn't hit me the same way. You don't like Card of Interapture? No. No.

Wow. That's a take, okay? But I'm sure that there's somebody for you. Stop saying that. Because I can't think of somebody. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think of somebody that's like

that well loved that I, I mean, it's not a big deal. You don't fuck when they need a baker. I mean, it... You say it so harshly. It's just, I'm not... The music doesn't reach me in that way. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

But I'm trying to think. I would think there's got to be somebody. There's got to be someone. That's so loved. That's so loved. But like, that's like, not just love, but whose music is legitimately transfixing and otherworldly.

And then it's I was going to say, well, it's transcends generations, right? Like, she's still able to go on tour. Like, there's, like, she reaches... Because she has a sublime angelic voice that is amazing and like, okay, I need a break. You hate it. No. It's cool. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predict.

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Yeah, so I'll do it first and then you do it. Okay, okay? Okay, this is the media, this is me your lesson. So I'm going to do, so the AP straight up fucked over baby face last night, okay? And Krista Farina was the AP. No, I think it was the other one. Okay, whatever. Leslie.

Okay, so it was Leslie and Christina were doing it. This is what happened. So play the audio, what happened. Talk to you about just the rise of women in R&B. the way they were really at the forefront. Can you talk about just this new trend that we're seeing in R&B where we're seeing more of a fusion. We're seeing people blend the genre with pop,

blend the genre with hip-hop and rock as well. Yes, I think it's interesting. Chappell. You guys want to do that? Go do that. I'm sorry. All right. So this is what.

I'm going to reenact what they did to Babyface first. Okay. Hey, Babyface, how are you? We love R&B. It was going to some many things going on in R&B. I was like, they say, Chapo! Beat it, nigger. We've been peeling your ass around the corner and that's the deal.

Beat it. And then Chapo comes in. And then they, oh, Shappell, you have to go when again. Okay. This is what I would have done. Because here's the thing. with you guys. If you are those ladies, you can't let Chapel Rowan pass by. But that's not their job.

They, they, you can't let Chapel Rowan pass by. Correct. Okay. But they're not alone. Set the stage. They're not alone. I know. But you have to talk to Shappelow. Correct. Okay. But they have assistance. So this is what I will do. Babyface R&B. Oh, wow. Hey, what an awesome opportunity. Babyface, do you know? Chapel Roan, have you guys met before?

Like, come in, come in. Chapel Roan, this is Babyface. Babyface, this is Chaparone. It's kind of an interesting thing here, guys. We have the new breed of pop music and someone who has made so many pop hits. We were just talking to Babyface about R&B about pop music, things like that. Shappell, you know, and then you, boom, meld the interview. Okay?

talk to both of them, make a cool moment. Babyface then leaves. You talk to Shappel Rhone because Babyface has other interviews to do. Very simple. Very simple. And media training from higher learning, people have been doing that for a long time. That's not what they did. This is what they did to Babyface.

They went, oh, hi, babyface. Oh, boy,'s to me and all special. Oh, my God, we love you so much. Baby's head. Hey, get out of here, Sambo. Shambo! It was bad. It really was bad.

Yes, I would have handled it that way. My old boss, shout out to Lisa G, said, break news or make a moment. You have an opportunity for Chapel and Babyface to be together that probably know everybody's doing these same interviews. You have something that probably nobody else is going to have. You just created an amazing moment. You have no idea what Babyface would have said to Chapel.

Chappell would have said to Babyface. That's like 101. Also, I keep saying she wasn't by herself. Yes, she probably has somebody in her ear saying, Chapel Rones right there, you got to get Chapel. she also has a producer on the floor that they're corralling these stars as they're coming over to say like,

hey, would you like to speak to AP News? Hey, would you like to? So what the producer will say is like, cut it. If they didn't want to make the moment, they easily could have said, Baby Face, I hope you have so much fun inside. Thank you so much for stopping by and talk to us. We look forward to like, whatever.

They could have to wrap. The same way if you do that. No, no, no, no, no, it's not. No, it's not. Because you can't always make a moment. You can easily say, finish your last question and say, Thank you so much for being here.

We appreciate you stopping by. It's so great to talk to a legend. Enjoy your time inside. You wrap up the interview. You let them go. He probably says hi to Chapel on the way, and you bring it back. There's two ways to handle the situation.

Best way is to create a moment, though. I agree with you. But that should have never happened. Yelling for Chapel in front of baby face, so disrespectful. And he handled it so well, like the class act that he is. He handled it so well.

Oh, oh, okay. Yeah, go ahead. No, no. Oh, you got to do that? He handled it well. You got to do that. He had to leave. And by the way, you know, I'm obviously joking with when I'm making it seem like it was race-based.

But, you know, the reality is this. We just not going to go for that. It's like we, we, it's, yes, are we emoting in our reaction to that? We didn't listen to on-bended knee and whip a pill and when will I see you again. and all of the Boys to Man records, all of the KC and Jojo records, we didn't listen to all of these records for all of this time, but y'all to kick babyface in his ass like that.

Okay, baby face been around since, like, LaFace records, all of this, we didn't listen to all of these records for y'all to kick babyface in his ass. We're not fucking putting up with that. So what we're really saying is, let's do a higher learning takeover, and let us do the carpet next time.

We'll do the carpet. Let us do it. We will give you moments. We will break news. We will not disrespect A-lister, B-listers, C-listers, whoever it is that graces us with their presence on the carpet. We will kill it. We will take care of the legends because I had never heard a Chapparrowing record before last night. Which is wild.

Which is wild. Whatever, I fuck with her music. It's not her fault. She didn't do nothing. No, no, no. It'd have been funny. This is how I know we're not in the era of. of post-George Florida anymore.

Because if her antennas were up, she could have become an ally in that moment. She could have been like... I don't think, yeah, she didn't hear. She, either she didn't hear or she didn't know who Babyface was. If she didn't, maybe she didn't know who Babyface was. Maybe she thought Babyface was. You know what, there's no excuse,

because he's had such a viral Tiny Desk moment, too. So for the new generation. No, I'm just saying, for some reason. Maybe Face produced snooze with scoze and all that. We talked about down on group. and all that. Baby's face is very active and like very much involved in a popular music right now. But Shappell could have been like, hey, no, you don't do baby face like that.

Stroke is here. You don't do, this is baby face. Look at this face. It's the face of a baby. You don't do him like that because she's on. She would have done something like that. She would have done something like that. You treat baby face like the chocolate star that he is.

And then Shappell, she good forever. But she didn't know and baby face. baby face to the curb, man. That was everywhere. You don't play about black people. Kenny Hamilton said that to me. Kenny said that to me. Kenny Hamilton never gets mad.

Shout out to Kenny. But Kenny Hamilton, so he basically said y'all better talk about this on the podcast. They made Kenny Hamilton break character. Kenny Hamilton was sitting back looking like, oh, shit, man, I love the Grammys on Kenny Hamilton, man. Like, I like the... You're like...

He made him... They made them break character. Pick up the phone. It hit me. Kenny Hamilton activated me last night. We don't play about ours. We don't play about ours. Except for Anita Baker because people go on to the side.

I would give Anita Baker so much respect. Not like us. We got Justin Charity coming up in a second to talk about Kendry versus Drake. Justin Charity, senior staff writer for the Ringer, who is doing a podcast called Poetic. Justice, which is looking into the Drake, Kendrick Lamar, beef, Kendrick Lamar, Drake. Last night, bad night for Drake. It just doesn't stop.

Yeah, it's a bad night for Drake. It was, um, Kendrick goes, how many? Five for five. Five for five. Song of the year. Record of the year. Deserving? You're sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, without doubt. For sure. Yeah. I knew it was going to clean up big five for five. was a big deal. We're going to talk to Justin about this a little bit

in a little bit, but I have to say something. If you are a Drake conspiracy theorist and you believe that the entire industry is conspiring against Drake... Yeah. Well, then this goes into it. Last night was a big night for you. Because I asked Justin about it and kind of what he thought about it, but like,

to watch, not... like us go five for five. That's the recording academy, which Drake has been historically really critical of. Yeah, yeah. Reward, his op. And the Lucian Dr. Dre

high five and everything that you saw last night seemed like the industry having fun dancing on Drake's coffin. And you wonder that plus the Super Bowl, if Drake's

endeavor to paint himself as the little guy in this didn't actually pick up some steam last night. Only for the... I just think most people, and we talk to Justin about this, really like the song. Yeah.

And I don't think that it goes as... Obviously, we talk about these things, you know, we're talking about it, but the everyday people just like the song. And I think that's what's hard. for him too. They're not even caught up in it. They just really like the song and aren't, you know, as upset that it's a song that makes you look a certain way. They just like the music. He really put out a really great song and it was rightfully rewarded. I think to your point, though, the people

who are conspiracy theorists, which is wild about this issue, those are the people that are only going to be activated and reached by this. I think most people are like, it's deserving. And To see the way the audience reacted, every time that song was played, it's deserving. People like the people. Taylor Swift was out of her seed dancing to it. Other things in the Grammys real quick. A lot of history. A lot of history.

You tell us, Rachel. Dochi. Oh, yeah. Dochi, third woman became the third woman in the award shows history to win best rap album. The moment previous winners, Lauren Hill, and then Cardi B. The moment Cardi B stepped on stage to present the award, I knew Dochi was going to win. Dochi, just her taking the stage, bringing her mom,

talking about her sobriety. Mom is beautiful. Jesus. Yeah. Talking about her sobriety, talking about how hard she worked, talking about who she is and what she represents standing on the stage. It was such a beautiful moment. I mean, she had so much emotion. I was glad that she was able to verbalize exactly everything that she wanted to.

so well deserved. Her performance was incredible, showing everybody why she made history as the third woman to win that award. It was great. Fantastic. And then, you know, we talked about it last year. We sat here last year, talked about the Grammys,

what Beyonce had never won, Cowboy Carter. We saw Beyonce win her first album of the year and became the first black woman to win the best country album. The last time a black woman, woman won best or one album of the year. It was Lauren Hill. Lauren Hill.

And then before that, Whitney Houston. Whitney Houston won twice. No, no, no, no. It was Lauren Hill, Whitney Houston. I think Natalie Cole. No, yeah, Natalie Cole, sorry. Natalie Cole, Whitney. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Natalie Cole, Whitney. So I'll just air all of these black women and we got four. So Natalie Cole, Whitney. You know what I mean? I can name you so many black women out there. screaming their heads off, making great music, and four of them. All right, Grammys, we fuck with y'all, man.

Y'all go ahead now. But Beyonce won. Yeah. And rightfully so. We talked about, yes, I said it. You know this album had a hold on me. I love this album so much. It did.

Like, I loved it so much. I've talked about this. You can say what you want about me and my opinion about... Beyonce is your op. She's, no, no, no, I got ops. It's not her. Yeah.

Okay. It's not her. But I just think this was so well deserved. I was, this is what I mean when I say. I feel like the Grammy's got a lot of it, right? And this is one of the things for sure. Yeah, big awards for Beyonce. The fact that she finally got her album of the year when I think she had been robbed of the shit before.

She has. A couple of times. I am interested to see what the fallout from the country community is going to be. I don't know that it's started yet. Okay. So you had the conversation about Drake and what does this say? What is the recording academy saying to Drake with the decisions that were made? What is the recording academy saying to country music, to Nashville, to CMAs with in the way they rewarded?

And you've had certain country artists like Kelsey Ballerini spoke out. She's like, I don't understand what's the big deal about like a post Malone being in the category of Beyonce. You're having people speak out about it. So what is the recording academy saying to country music with this? think the Recording Academy is pretty consistent here. I think you see like when MacLamore wins, I'll be honest with you,

when McLamor wins best rap album, like over Kendrick Lamar. Yeah. To me, the Recording Academy, a recording academy in a way vindicated itself because not that I'm giving them any credit for knowing what actual genre purity

or what actual immersion into a culture musically actually means. I'm not saying that. But what I'm saying is, if they can give McLemore best rap album, then they, for damn sure, better be able to give Beyonce Best Country album. That's not a diss to McLemore, not bringing up old shit, but I'm just saying

for people who are wondering, hmm, what the fuck does it mean that she won? What I would say is they do this kind of thing all the time. A couple of years ago, we had a conversation on this podcast about, I think it was an all-white group from like Virginia or something like that, that won Best Reggae album or something like that. And so the Grammys will do this. Jethro Toll wins best metal over like Metallica or something like that. But what I don't want to take away from is like I don't want to make it seem like this is just what the Grammy does.

They pick the artist who makes a splash or makes it something different. The album was fantastic. The album is fantastic. I'm not saying the rest of these albums weren't. weren't fantastic either. But what I'm saying is the Grammys have seemed to position themselves as a voting body that doesn't really care very much about genre. About genre or the purity of a genre or the, like I said, the cultural immersion of that genre. And it's pissed us off in the past when we've seen people who have dedicated their lives to making music in a specific genre lose awards. And now we're kind of on the other side. of that because Beyonce hasn't been known as a country

artist for her entire career, but she just won the country award. So anybody that's surprised at that probably hasn't been paying attention to the history of the recording academy. That's all I would say. What else? That's pretty much it. I will say a couple of things happened last night. A couple

of van addendums to the Grammys. Two things. One, Kanye showed up to the Grammys with his wife, Bianca. This is what I'll say about that. I'm being very serious about this. It was disgusting. Okay. And like sincerely disgusting.

And in my opinion, the only way for people to understand how disgusting what happened on the red carpet was was for us to see more of them on red carpets and in other places. So in my opinion, I think that in order to drive home the point that Bianca should be invited to more things. We should see her at the BT Awards. We should

be she're walking around Hollywood. We should see her. If that's how she's going to dress, then people need to understand how problematic that is. How terrible that is for her perky butt and perfect bosoms to be shown to the entire world like that, what anyone could be seen. Okay? So what we need to do is we need to encourage Kanye and Bianca

to come to more things. So you guys can see just how disgusting that was. I was disgusted. I was taking aback and they all would be ashamed of themselves. But we need to see more. Something is wrong with you. What?

Something is wrong with you. Let me tell you what was disturbing to me, truly. What was disturbing to me? You don't think I'm making sense? It was, oh, you're making sense. What was disturbing to me was the image of it.

It was the image of him looking at her like, you know what to do. This, like the look. Because I know some people were trying to read the lips. We don't really know what was said. But the way he was standing there, it just, it, it looked like he was like, you know, like asserting his control over her. I just, it just, and for all I know, it was her idea.

But the image of him standing there and, and looking at her and then her dropping her coat, It just, it made me very uncomfortable because I thought, are you, are you okay? Are you into this? I just, it, okay, fan. It just, it was that. I am being serious right now. It just was not. I'm begging to be taken seriously.

It just was not. Kanye is still Kanye. We haven't seen enough to know, like, how bad it is. We need to see more. And another thing I have to say, and I have to, I have to, I have to say this and it's, it's unfortunate. I love Janelle Monet. I just want to say that. What did you?

Is she your Anita Baker? No, no, no. I love Janelle Monet. Okay. I love Janelle Monay and everything. What are you about to say? We got to let Michael rest, man. We can't do it.

We can't, the Michael thing last night, like, I got secondhand embarrassment. I had to turn it off. Was it the singing? Was it the dancing? Was it the attire? Well, first of all, I just will tell you something like this. And this is a situation when the music started and rock with you comes on, I'm like, whoever is in that spot is about to fail.

Do you think if Chris Brown had been in that spot, you would have had the same reaction? Hell no. But that's different because that's his bag. That's his bag. You don't put people in different bags. If Chris Brown was up there doing a tribute to Aretha Franklin, he would fail. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not his bag.

You put people in their bags. Fair, fair, fair, fair. That's not the bag that she should be in. That's not her bag. And I, that's the only time I get so bad secondhand embarrassment. I couldn't watch it. At what point did secondhand embarrassment? Was it the piggyback ride?

It wasn't the piggyback ride. It was like those notes are Jacksonish notes. And that's not, that's not her voice. And then the dancing and the moonwalk and the whole nine, that's not her bag. The moonwalk was the best part for her. Janelle Monet is a fantastic performer and a ridiculously good actress and a beautiful woman. That was one of the worst Grammy moments I've seen in a while. I just got to be honest with you.

Did you feel like the whole tribute was a little... A little bit off. A little bit off. And I got to tell you some, too. No, it seemed people glossed over the fact that Will Smith was the one talking. Yeah. It was like, I was in a suite and I was like, like, is that Will Smith?

Is that Will Smith that I hear? And then I looked and I'm like, nobody seemed to be. And energized by it. Yeah. I understood why he was there because of their history. But the whole tribute with Quincy seemed very off to me. I did enjoy Cynthia Arrivo, though. Fantastic.

I'm so Cynthia Arrivo. But the whole thing, it was like, hmm, who else? Who else? There was somebody else who performed? Stevie Wonder. And then it was like, it was, um, You forgot about him, huh? I saw Stevie reading the music off of the thing.

Who else took the stage? It was Stevie and Herbie Hancock. Herbie. And Stevie, and there was the country people. Your friend. Oh, Lainey. Lainey. She's not my friend.

I don't know her, but Lainey Wilson. Yeah. And then, but I saw Stevie, Stevie peeked over at the music. I'm like, they're doing it again. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer

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Kendrick Lamar cleans up at the Grammys. Goes five for five. Wins everything. This is good news. who's for a guy named Justin Charity, who's a senior staff writer at the Ringer and has a podcast coming out called Poetic Justice. Beautifully named. Beautifully named.

Kendrauma's song, but also... Drake is on it. No. Also, Janet Jackson, Tupac movie. Well, yes, we know that. That's a piece trying to sing. But yeah, Drake is on the record. A song I never liked, but... Never liked it.

But that podcast, is all about the Kendrick and Drake Her Fluffle. And it is, I was on it, and it's going to be fantastic, particularly because I was on it. And Justin is now here to talk a little Kendrick Lamar and Drake with us.

Justin Charity, thank you for joining us on Higher Learning. First question for you, Big Night for Kendrick Lamar at the Grammys. What are your thoughts on how that all figures into the beef and the back and forth between him and train. The Canadian

tuxedo was disrespectful. That was disrespectful. The denim on denim. Disholk. Shut up with the denim on denim. Yeah. And he's holding like five Grammys in the photo,

in the, you know, that's crazy. Like, I guess like, I just, I still can't write my head around anything about any of this, right? that much about hip hop culture who are so invested in this song, in these plot lines,

and this beef. And to the point that it has five Grammys now is, is, is nuts to me. Is it possible, Justin, that people aren't as invested in the ins and outs of the beef as much as they are about just the record? Like, the song is, is that good. They really enjoy it when, when anytime the song would come on, like, even when he wasn't walking up to the stage. I was at the Grammys. They were playing it constantly between

commercial breaks. People, the whole stand was singing A minor. Like, I mean, everybody in the stands was singing a minor. It just, is it just possible that they really just are into the song and really aren't necessarily choosing a side? And so here's the question. Does

liking the song, dancing to the song, singing the lyrics mean you are choosing a side? I kind of think it does, because the shot in Freud of that show of the song of rapping along with like most of the lyrics to that song. Like especially if you're like looking at the celebrities, right, in the crowd. All these crowds over the past however many months, right, you see these snippets of people

rapping along with not like us. Like these are people who plausibly know Drake. Like it's hard to wrap along with something like that and kind of totally close yourself off from the context of it. Right? Maybe I just think about that. I think of it like that just because I love rap beef. I've loved rap.

I've loved watching Rapbees play out since I was like a teenager. And I've always immersed myself in the context for, you know, stuff like that. But I don't know if you're Billy Elish, like you, you know what it is. You know the moment that they show the video of you rapping along with it, Drake is somewhere rolling in his eyes and putting you on a list of people he's not going to return emails from. She can help herself. Can help herself. Yeah, she'll be out there just like rerun from what's happening.

Let me ask you a question. So there was a part of last night that was a little bit uncomfortable for me. Not uncomfortable. Uncomfortable. Put you like this. So I wonder if you guys clocked this. So obviously, Kendrick Lamar has had an issue with Drake going back a long time. We're going back like 2013 or whatever it was, control.

they change barbs. So everything that Kendrick is doing is genuine to a degree. He's never really rocked with Drake for whatever reason after they worked together early on in his career. However, I will say something about last night. The picture of Dr. Dre high-fiving Lucian Grange, everybody dancing to it, the song going five for five, it did seem to me that last night was the culmination. of an industry revenge on Drake. And I am wondering why that is.

I'm wondering why it seems like the entire industry is taking part in retribution against Drake. And I think that Drake has done some things these last couple of years to erode some of the public support that he had had, throughout the last decade.

But I am wondering why everybody seems to hate him this much now. I've wondered that for a long time. And I've also wondered why I think Drake's defenders, right, never seem more curious about that themselves. Because like what's the saying of if you run into an asshole, like maybe that person's an asshole. But if all day you're running into assholes, maybe you're the asshole, right?

And there's something crazy about the fact that it's like, we can look at Kendrick and be like, okay, Kendrick has not rocked with this dude for a long time. But the fact that the coalition of haters is Kendrick, but then also Rick Ross, but then also Future Metro Boomin, but then also Aesap Rocky, right? That's great. It's kind of the recording industry of America. Yeah.

They gave him, Kendrick went five for five on Grammys on a diss song. Yeah. Calling Drake a pedophile. They're flashing to the audience. Everybody's standing up. Dre and Swiss right next to each other's like cheering on. I've never seen anything like this before. And I'm not saying it doesn't make me,

I'm not necessarily saying I am, it makes me more sympathetic towards Drake, but it does make me wonder why. What the fuck is going on, man? Yeah, yeah. Now, it actually reminds me weirdly enough of like college. Like you ever been on a group project with somebody? And it's like a group of people.

And you slowly over the course of like the group project realized that there's one dude in the group project that no one can take anymore because he's just had like, you know what I mean? He's kind of bossing people. I feel like it's that. I feel like there's some element of like, I feel like it's almost totally interpersonal.

I think it's a bunch of people compared notes. And, you know, it's like how Drake raps and carries himself. Like you can imagine him getting under people's skin and being just a little too familiar. I think he just personally pissed people off on like an interpersonal level is what I feel like actually happened. Do you think, and maybe you talk about this, you know, on the podcast, you will talk about it, like just to circle back to that.

But do you think there was a point where he took it too far? For example, do you think the lawsuit took it too far where people were like, okay, because there's an argument from Drake and his people that he's doing it on behalf of the other artist, right? He's doing it, you know, I don't know if you want to. he's deeming himself some sort of martyr or, you know, trying to say like he's fighting for the little guy because he can, whatever it is, he's kind of hanging on to that. But it seems like if Dre is high-fiving Lucian, like it seems like there's, that may have taken

it too far. There seems to be maybe a pushback with that. And I'm curious as to your thoughts, is that the moment he took it too far for the industry? The industry took it too far or Drake took it too far? Drake took it too far for the industry. Oh, I get what you're saying. Yeah, I mean, to me, sure, if you're looking at it from an industry POV, I guess I, in the context of just like the beef itself, right, before you get to the lawsuit,

I'm a proponent, right, of like the gloves are off. You say what you got to say about each other. Go as far as you think you got to go. But it is, yeah, in terms of Drake trying to turn this into not just the legal issue, but like the leak, the thing you're talking about, right, the leaked message where he's like, I'm doing this so that all these other artists are safer, you know, from being manipulated by the label. I feel like that's all bluffing. It reminds me a lot of like how he sounded on the Hart Part 6, where he's just saying all this self-aggrandizing stuff that I think is kind of empty calories, right?

Like, I think you're probably right, though. I think there's a point at which like, initially it was a rap beef that like, regardless of who maybe fans are rooting for, the industry is like, look, the streams are hot, right? But you're right. I think, I think the lawsuit probably pushed it into this territory of the people who make money off of this stuff, probably being like, all right, he wants to play this stupid game. Let's give them the stupid prize. So there's a college football podcaster that I love. Josh Pate. And after a big game, he always says, we talk about the winners first. And we broke that rule.

Shout to Josh Pade. Shout out to Clad. Shout out to Brandon Walker. Shout to all the college football people that I love, man. Shout to Bermonti Jones doing college football. I'm missing it already. Anyway, got to get back to it. Got to get back on schedule.

And we have broken that rule. We've been talking about Drake with the winner here. It's Kendrake Gimar. What does not like us becoming the most awarded, one of the most viral, one of the most potent, one of the most significant disc songs of all time, which is what was cemented

at the Grammys last night. What does this mean for Kendrick? Yeah, I think it kind of relates back to what Rachel was saying about, like maybe there are people who just, they just like the song, right? They're not that invested in the storylines, the beef, whatever, they like the song.

But I actually do think there's something about both how big, not like us is, and frankly, how funny it is, right? Like how funny, how just accessible it is. I think it does feel like this, it almost created a new way of looking at Kendrick and another way of understanding what his rap career could look like.

Because I think for a long time, people talked about Kendrick in a kind of, I might even say like annoying way, or they kind of talk about Kendrick in a way that makes him seem more inaccessible and more humorless than he actually is. And I do think that like not like us is this moment of people being like,

dog, this dude is funny. this dude really is a hit me he seemed like the dude that never wanted to party with us yeah exactly he was the guy that would

that would teach us we had this dude at uh at southern his name was knowledge and he was the smartest guy right we talked to him whatever

and we'd be like all right let's go have drinks after this let's go to like the reggae club or whatever let's say nah man nah man

you're like god damn you don't take the time to have a Hennessy and you're reading at every time, and it seemed like Kendrick was the guy that would teachers, make us think, do all of that, but he never wanted to party with us. And now it seems like he's cool partying with us a little bit.

After good kid, Mad City. What? I felt like that album came, I felt like he was, he still wanted to have fun with us. Yeah. After that album is when I felt like he didn't want to, he didn't want to come to party anymore. But what I'm saying is,

but he says some of the parties have to, but now with G and X and with this, It seems like we're not like us. Kendrick is, he's down to party with us a little bit. He's a little bit more out there. How important is that for him as he continues his ascension up the hip-hop ladder? Would you say that Kendrick Lamar now is a top 10 rapper of all time, is the top five rapper of all time?

Like, do the awards mean anything to that? Does not like us success, does it mean anything to that? Like, where do you put Kendrick now that it seems like he's this unstoppable hip-hop behemot? I think I had Kendrick as a top 10 for like a while, but I also have like a very unstable top 10. So I don't even know who my top one is right now. My is usually like cube or something. But I mean, yeah, I think it's super important because I remember during the beef with Drake,

there was this sense of like, I remember all the Drake stands were kind of like, you know, Drake has held us down for so many summers, right? And like Kendrick, yeah, he's got hits, but he doesn't do the thing that Drake does where he just like every summer feeds the culture is like got him. hits sort of defining his generation. And I think with not like us and everything going for, in GNX too, right, like that sense of like, oh, Kendrick is out here to party now, right? Like, I think that it just puts them in a super different space and it answers what I think was like an anxiety I had and maybe other people had during the beef of like, what happens if you slay Drake?

Right? You're slaying this guy who it is true. Like Drake, Drake churned out hits in this way that was kind of unprecedented, right? And if you, if you sort of get rid of him, would exist in the void. Even if Kendrick is great, Kendrick is a guy who, like, is not trying to work at the same pace necessarily, right? And work at the same sort of like, at the same,

I don't know, the same register. And I do think that by not like us, just how the song sounds, how GNX sounds, how Kendrick is positioning himself now. I think he actually is making it easier to see. like him kind of stepping into the void to an extent. Even if at the end of the day, Kendrick probably still cares more about raising his kids

than trying to be like the Drake format of rap stardom, if that makes sense. It does. So what can we expect on the podcast? Tell us a little bit about, because I mean, I could, I know, I don't, I can talk about this all day. It's just so interesting.

It's so lair. So I love that you're doing this podcast. tell us what we can expect on it. Yeah, I mean, I will say like throughout making it, I went back and forth, right? Between should this be a podcast about Kendrick or should it be a podcast about Kendrick versus Drake, right? And the more I sort of like spent time just talking to people, talking to band and others, you know, I found that there was like a story that is really squarely about Kendrick and about L.A. and about California's place in like the hip hop sort of like hierarchy over the years, right? And to me, it's like, yeah, I feel like pulling this podcast together, I feel like it's a good synthesis of talking about Kendrick as Kendrick, but also getting into why Drake was such a good foil, such an effective foil for what Kendrick represents to people. And also kind of telling that story of like why the fact of like Kendrick being from Compton, Kendrick being from LA being from California, like why that matters so much to how he really was able to.

position himself as like the perfect underdog in this context. As Justin Charity, the podcast is poetic justice. Me and Justin talk for a long time. That's the good thing about me. All you have to do is ask two questions. And I'll just blather and ramble. What are the question? He just asked, you ask a couple of questions and then I'll ramble for 10 minutes.

By the time you ask me about Kendrick and Drake, I'll end up back in Baton Rouge in the fifth grade. Oh, our listeners are familiar. They know that. Justin knows too. Look at him. At one point, he's doing the interview, Justin's like, okay, Van, we got to go. When is it dropping, man? It should be the end of this week.

We're a couple days for a Super Bowl, you know, just putting the finishing touches on it. But yeah, in the end of this week. My brother, appreciate you, man. Thank you for joining us today on Higher Learning. And congrats. And congrats on the podcast. The podcast is fantastic.

Thank you, Justin Cherry. for joining us, be on the lookout for that. And we'll have you back. Well, you know what? Because we talk hip hop a lot on this podcast. I know a fair amount about hip hop, but then there are some people on the podcast that weren't aware of who Hit Boy was.

So. You just found that out? We didn't know who Hit Boy was. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I was in the studio for hours. With Hit Boy, had no idea who Hit Boy was. Okay. And the story is brought back to me.

The story is brought back to me. And the story is like, what a lovely man. It's like, I'm like, yeah, the story is brought back to me. And then I hear the story and I go, nigga, what? Mind you, I was part of making this off, this whole thing. Made it happen. I wasn't familiar with his work, like all the things that he's done. And I was like, it's probably a good thing I didn't know before walking in.

Yeah. So, but when we have hip-hop questions, we'll keep it in the family. We'll bring you back, all right, man? Yeah, I appreciate that so much. I'm going to have to talk to Kalika. Bye, Justin. Thanks for coming on.

Bye, guys. You know what? Let's do this live. We have, that's enough for the Grammys. Bring in Logan Murdoch right now because something happened in the sports world that we have to discuss right now. Ashley is Logan here?

Donnie's not in today, by the way, guys. Donnie was so... He was so upset about the way we last. at him. Yeah. About the Rosita story. Yeah. That he requested time off.

So hopefully Donnie's back again on Thursday. You guys treating him like shit. So when Logan gets here, bring him in. But the Grammys were great. But before the Grammys, Saturday night, this is your back. This is just because I'm from Dallas. I'm not, I'm not, the Cowboys to me are not with the Mavericks are. Yeah, but we talked about this.

Like, you came on a show one time wearing a Mavericks jersey. last year. Okay, yeah, Bremen, you came on the show wearing a Maverick's jersey when they were in the final. I did.

So is it Uchi Wally or is it one mic? Do you give a fuck about the Mavericks or not? I care, but I am not as upset as everyone else, but I was shocked. Hi, Logan. Thank you for joining.

Logan Murdoch joining us right now. An expert here. On higher learning. Nice to meet you. Logan does various NBA things here, host of real ones, staff writer here. at the Ringer

and he's going to help us put into context. Baffling trade. Baffling, baffling, baffling, baffling, baffling, baffling, baffling trade involving... I have a question for you. What, man? Is it baffling? It's baffling. Involving three teams.

Better make sure. The Utah has, which really, they got nothing. The Los Angeles Lakers and the Dallas Mavericks. The Dallas Mavericks traded Luke to the Lakers. for Anthony Davis, and there are other parts in this trade, but those are the main thing.

That's the key thing. Those are the key. Everybody was freaking out, Logan. We're on the group text, and people put it in the group text, and we're like, no way they have to be hacked. Shams has to be hacked.

No one knows what's going on. And then we find out very soon that this is an actual real trade. For some of our basketball fans that are listening to the podcast, some of our non-basketball fans, should I say, try to tell them, try to put into a casual perspective

what this trade actually means and how shocking this was to the basketball world. It's like if you traded LeBron in 25 years old. Damn. If the Cavs traded LeBron to the Lakers at 25 years old for, I'm trying to think of like a player that everyone would know. Like, I don't know, but it'd be like if that's what it is. If you trade LeBron James at 25 years old to the,

Lakers and got pennies on the dollar and you only got a draft pick for a first round draft pick for that's not even available for four more years it's pretty daunting bro or like Michael no I wouldn't say Michael Jordan because that's kind of blasphemous to some people but like that type of level right like of a legendary player that you knew was a legend by 25 and you just said nah kick rocks and for people who don't understand like Luca is I think a four or five time all NBA first team performer five time all NBA. He just took into a final. Yeah. Like, I'm from Dallas, Logan.

Now, I wouldn't consider myself a Mavericks fan, but that is definitely the hometown team. Sure. For other people who might be fans of the Mavericks, like make it make sense, because I'm sorry, whatever they're feeding us right now about, like, defense wins, championships, or whatever. It makes no sense why you would let go of,

to me it was the equivalent, like, if we had ever traded Dirk. I just, we never would. right? He's such a staple. And to me, when we got Luca, it was like a passing of the tours. Okay, now Luca's that person for the Dallas Mavericks. Make it make sense. Like, what could, if you're in the front office of Dallas, like what could you possibly be thinking? Not winning. And my frustration comes out as a Cowboys fan too. Like, just like, just to be a fan in Dallas, right? It just the decisions that are being made by the people with power, it is frustrating. So what could Dallas gain from this? I mean, you asked me to make it make sense

as like asking me to do brain surgery with like a high school diploma. Like there's no way for me to make this make sense, right? I mean, you could say that his defense is offshore, right? But he also like drags the Mavericks to the conference finals with like me, you and Dan on the team. You know what I'm saying? Like it's one of those, that's how good of a player he is.

He turns it on. That's not a guy you want to let out of the door. Like he is so good that he got traded straight up for Anthony Davis and people are saying that this is the fleece. That's how good Luca Donchis is. And the last time we saw Anthony Davis, he put up 43 and 23 in the guard, or his last game, he put up 43 and 23. Like, this is unfathomable. This is, this is the, you know it is bad because of how Nico Harrison has, the GM of the Mavericks has to like over-explain himself.

And when he does over-explain himself, he puts other people in terrible decisions. Like, if you look at that press conference before the Cavaliers game, make sure you just like take a close. Don't even look at Nico Harrison. Look at the soulless face of Jason Kidd, just seeing his life being taken from him. This is how bad this is, right? And it's not like the Mavericks were necessarily doing bad.

It was this season. Luca was out. They were trying to hold down the fort, and they were going to be ready to try to make another run. Like this was a guy that wanted to, for all intents of purposes, is playing Dallas for the rest of his career. Like in Dallas, I've been in Dallas a few times. You're from Dallas.

Seems like the perfect market for him. Like they love him, but he's not going to get as much scrutiny as he was in a lot of Los Angeles or New York. He can chill. People like him. If he wins one title, he's straight. Now, like, he's going to, and then you put it on top of that, you put him with the Los Angeles Lakers, which is one of the Maverick's biggest ops.

And he just has to play against them for. times a year. Like, it's just unfathomable. Every time I try to make sense of it, I just, I stop. I feel like I, I can't do it. I can't do it, Rachel. I can't do it. So, so it, there's, this got to be more to it, right? Luca got to be selling dope and they know about it. Luca got to be, and that is Luca in the Ditty case? Like, what, what is the, what, what, there's got to be more to it, right? There's got to be something that we don't know. Luca has, there's something going on. Luca, January 6th, we didn't know where it was. And, what, what, Why you keep putting it on Luca?

I think. I think. No, I'm saying what I'm saying is for them to have traded Luca. I'm always going to say play for LeBron. This can't be a basketball decision. This can't be a basketball decision. DEI. D.E.I, maybe.

Maybe he's the DEI. I was thinking about this somehow. Wow. Yeah. D.E.I is to blame for this. It's either. I watch this show a little bit, bro. I watch this show a little bit, but the level of third eye open right now is crazy.

Is it because it's Black History Month or is this is like normal? Like how this is how y'all normally. This is how you normally go. It's how we go deep into the bullshit. Like the name of this show should have been a little smart because that's what we are. Just a little. Fake weight smart.

Fake weight learning. Yeah, exactly. So this is my, as everyone struggles to make sense of the trade and we jest, but this is the level of conjecture that people are endeavoring into right now. What is the basketball fallout from this? Did the Mavericks get better, as Charles Barkley said? Are they now a top two team in the West, as Charles Barkley said? Are the Lakers going to win multiple titles with Luca, being that he's 25?

And how does that work with LeBron? Like, how do you see them playing together? Okay, so a few questions there. I think the first thing I want to answer is how this could have happened. Or like, how does you let this out of the door? I think we need to like take a step back a little bit and look at the Maverick's new ownership. Mark Cuban sold a chunk of the team last season to a group that is trying to build around Dallas and build casinos and just build a got it, basically just got into this for the real estate in Dallas and aren't necessarily basketball people, right? So like if Nico Harrison goes to Mark Cuban and says, hey man, I want to trade the face of the franchise, the penny on the dollar.

What do you think, Mark Cuban? Mar's going to be like, fuck out of here. Mark Cuban once said that if he had to choose between Luca and his wife, he would choose Luca. That's not surprising. Exactly. Yeah. Also a wild thing to say publicly. But anyway, so the new ownership is a big key in this as well because they're just like, forget it.

We're here for the land. Like, go ahead. Like, do what you got to do. All basketball people, you guys figure that out. How he fits with LeBron, I think. That's TBD. But, you know, I've been around the league a long time. Like, if you put great players together, especially like all-time great players together,

generally they'll figure it out if they're as smart as Luca and LeBron. So I don't really have any reservations on that. I'm just really curious to see it. I'm really excited to see it. You know, these are two players that obviously kind of wanted to play with each other for a long time, but I don't think that they ever thought that they would have the chance to do it other than an All-Star game. So I think they're really excited. I think they'll figure it out.

As far as, like, what the two teams are. going to be. Dallas, I know a lot of people are high on them, but I'm not really as high on their ceiling as others because they are led by two guys in Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis who, while are very, very talented,

have always been supporting stars to number one players. Both for LeBron, Kyrie, to a certain extent, in Boston, he was kind of a, I mean, when he led a team, it kind of didn't really to work out well.

And you see when he tried to lead a team in Brooklyn didn't work out well. He has got a guy that plays well in support of a bigger star like he did last year. That was a perfect role for him. And then Anthony Davis in the same light. So I don't see them as two number one guys. I see them as two complementary pieces. And then if you think about it, like you're getting the midseason. You're getting Anthony Davis midseason.

He hasn't been injury prone in the last year, but he has been historically injury prone. Same with Kyrie. they're going to have to figure out how to jail in two months to try to win a title. That's a really hard ask when you have Oklahoma City out there. And in the Eastern Conference, you have established groups like Cleveland. You also have an established team like Boston. I don't think that they're, even if they did get to the finals, I think they're beating them. So it's for the Mavericks, I don't think it's as fruitful as people think that it's going to be.

I mean, even Nico Harrison saying like, we're doing this for the, future with two guys that are in their early 30s is just blasphemous. So I just don't think that there's any plan going on in Dallas that this, this, this trade on there and the roads any trust that I have that they can really build a team. And on the Lakers side, I mean, you guys both live in L.A. You all know what the Lakers mean to Los Angeles. And people are going to want to come later and go play with Luca Dachis. and I don't think it's going to, I don't think it's going to be a hard thing to build a team around them now.

I do feel like Rob Polinka, while he, you know, he did have a stage of coup and get Luca, he has some ups and downs and how to team build, right? This is the same guy that's created for Russell Westbrook, the same, a championship roster kind of overhauled it to get Russell Westbrook, and that took years of championship contending off the table for LeBron. So he has a lot to prove to build a team around. around Luca, but on paper, it shouldn't be hard to be able to do it. You know, like, I think that players are going to want to play with them,

and players love living in L.A., and players love playing for the Lakers. So I think they have a really bright future if they play their cards on them. They got Luca Donchis at 25. Like, if you can't figure that out, I don't know what to tell you. It's dumb. That was Logan Murdoch, Real Ones podcast, senior staff writer for the Ringer. He's up there in the Bay right now. He's up there loving the Bay, you know.

Logan, what's what you got going on? Logan. Tell people about a little bit about Logan real quick. I'm chilling, man. We got a live show at an All-Star weekend. San Francisco come full up. Yeah, I'll be there. We're on his live show at the punchline. We're getting shit done. Y'all coming? Y'all pulling up? I'm going to be there for the All-Star game for sure.

I will not be there. Rachel won't miss it. That's crazy. That's crazy. Rachel are you hate going to go up there and she's going to come. I'm going to be honest with you. My funds are limited. Rachel going to go up there for this.

That's a lot. That type of party is never going to happen. She's going to go up there to the bay and she's going to come back with an NBA player and a cold. That's what she do. She's going to come back with an NBA boo and a cold. She might get a bay boo, though. A bayboo, oh, shit. She might get a bay boo on the road.

That tech money. Nah, we're not talking about no tech money. We're talking about no, no, no, no, no. We're talking about the other side. We're talking about the East Bay. Oh, well, I'm down for that, too. Yeah, you know what I mean? Maybe I'm welcome.

I'm saying. You know, you know. It goes rock. I'm about a live show. There might be some homies that might be some homies that might want to, you know what I'm saying, just shoot their shot. There might be some homies. All right.

Logan, we appreciate you join us, brother. Talk to you soon. Thank you, man. I appreciate you guys. Hey, I just want to say real quick, man. I'm a huge fan of the show. So just to be action, this is the honor. I always come to the show whenever I got to, like,

hear some news and here's perspective about us. So I really appreciate the invite. We appreciate that. Oh, we appreciate it. Oh, we appreciate it. Oh, thank you, brother. We'll have you back. for sure. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything

for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. S. R. S. R. S. R. S. Sophia Gascone. Apologizes for old post. Say it again. Carla Sophia Gascon. Apologizes for old post and deactivates her ex account. This is a funny story because... Why, man?

Because Carla had smoke for everybody. Like, Carla... On X. On X. So the first transgender performer to be nominated for the Oscars Best Actors Award. and some old post resurfaces here going back to the far as 2016 so she took aim at Muslims at language and culture in native Spain she said the Islam should be banned okay she dis George Floyd she said that very few people ever cared about George Floyd a drug addict

and a hustler but his death served to highlight once again that there are those who consider black people to be monkeys without rights And those who consider the police to be murderers all wrong. I don't know what the fuck she was trying to say. She took aim at Selena Gomez. Like literally everybody on there took, got a turn. She fucking hated everyone. She hates everybody.

And then she went on CNN and they asked her about it and whether or not she would renounce her nomination. She said, I cannot renounce a nomination because what I've done is a job and what is being valued is my asses. acting work and I cannot renounce a nomination either because I've not committed any crime nor have harmed anyone. I'm not a racist nor am I anything that these people have taken upon themselves or try to make me others believe that I am. Why is it funny to you? It's funny for a lot of reasons. It's funny because Amelia Perez is an abomination. It's a terrible, stupid, disrespectful, ridiculous

movie. Okay, the movie in itself. The movie in itself. So there's Ashley come in on this, Because you had opinions on this too. Yeah. There's a lot of controversy. What'd you say, Ashley? I hate this movie. Okay, sound off Ashley. You have a lot to say.

Why is there so much controversy surrounding this movie? Why do you hate it so much? It was, it's just a very strange movie. It was written by a French man. It's about a Mexican drug lord who hires a lawyer to get a sex transformation. And everything is just mistranslated. There's songs about, I mean, there's a very amazingly weird song about transitioning. That literally is just singing, penis to vagina.

Like, that's literally a line. What? It's just ridiculous and strange. And, I mean, my partner is in musical theater. So I was like, here, tell me what's going on. Is this a real musical? and she was even confused. So overall, it doesn't make sense to regular audiences.

It doesn't make sense to musical theater audiences. It doesn't make sense as a translated movie musical. And I'm just glad Zoe Zeldana got nominated for something that she was in Blackface for. Oh, my God. Oh, Daddy. Father Dad. Let me ask you this. As you've seen it, Ashley, you've seen a van.

I have not. Once I saw all the hate. I was like, absolutely not. But as the expert in the room, man, why do you think this movie with all the things that Ashley just laid out, with them getting things so wrong, it seemed seeming to be,

not seeming, it's culturally offensive to so many people. To the Mexican people. That's what I'm saying. Why was this nominated this many times? Why is it there's so much, and not just at the Oscars, the entire award season. Yeah, yeah. So this is what I would say.

The movie is well-acted and well-performed. Okay, so it's well-made from the standpoint that you have professionals who are in the film giving very bold and daring performances that you don't normally see in Hollywood. And awards committees tend to award that. They tend to, when you go out there and you take a leap and you push the envelope, they tend to award that. But the real answer to the question is I don't know, right? This is aside from the controversy that Carla is a part of, but we'll get back to that in a second. But I really don't know.

I really don't know. The movie has no cultural authenticity. It doesn't in any way strike you as a film that's important in any way. It's odd and it's daring in that it puts people in a position to where they might have to confront things and see things that they are uncomfortable with. But there's nothing specifically

extraordinary about it. So I don't know. What this tells me right now, as far as what's going on with her, is there are people who looked at the movie and didn't want the movie to succeed

or, I want to say that this is a witch hunt against her, because that's not was happening. I think that there was a cultural insincerity about the film that people felt like was a little bit deeper than just the movie itself, that there was a lie that Amelia Perez is a lie that is about inclusion or a lie that's about progression or being progressive. And that lie is in these tweets that this movie was supposed to be something progressive, something uplifting, something that was pushing things forward.

But really what it was was a movie about Mexicans not shot in Mexico, a movie about Mexicans that Mexicans didn't really understand, a movie about LGBTQ issues that the LGBTQ community didn't embrace. And the meat of these tweets serves, as a reminder that this movie was more of a packaging of progress than actually being about progress itself. Right.

It's a facade. I mean, like, everything that you're saying, that's exactly what it is. I think that's, you know, not funny to me, as it is to Van, but I think the more interesting thing is, is the way that this movie was presented and your lead character who,

prior to, the lead role prior to this, has been put out, you know, to the media, to the public masses as, you know, this is progressive, this is what she represents, not even just the movie, just her as a person. This is who she is and what she represents. And it's like the reality is, nah, she's racist. She's everything. Like, and I don't care what her, you know, we don't haven't done an apology rating in a while.

This one gets a big, fat one for me. I started listening to her apology. And I could only get through the first five minutes of it because before she's apologizing, she is defending herself. She's talking about how hard her life has been. She's talking about things, personal tragedy that she has suffered in her life, before she ever gets to being sorry for what you said and how that affected so many people and how you being representative of what you are or what people thought you were,

actually none of that is true. I mean, you read a portion of it. Her tweets are even worse than that, what she says about George Floyd and, you know, about Muslim women in particular and how she doesn't, how she's against Arabic being taught in Spain and how the Muslim influence in Spain. I mean, it's bad. It goes deep. And whenever this comes, and her tweets are recent. You know, we always do the back and forth of how old was this person when they did it. They're pretty recent.

Obviously, she's talking about George Floyd. whenever I see that you didn't, you've seen other people go down for controversial tweets and you didn't delete these tweets. Now they're deleted. It makes me also think you thought you were above it all. You didn't think that it was that bad

that you could get away with it. And clearly she's not. So now the question is, how will the Oscars handle her? Specifically, the way the Oscars is now doing their format of, you know, they bring on, they honor each person in the category, and have someone who won in the past, I believe, talk in a very positive way about the nominee.

How will they handle Sophia? I don't know. That's not our problem. The problem is we've been trying to have this black and brown summit. And moments like this set us back. You think so? No. I want to, Sarah Hagee is the freelance culture writer, Canada-Canada, Canada-based journalist,

and co-hosts of the podcast Scam Fluencers She is the one who She discovered it She unearthed these tweets Sarah Hege I guess it's Hege Scamfluencers

Scam influencers You guys go check her out She's the one who uncovered these tweets I want to shout her out The Black and Brown Summit Has to happen Well, it's necessary Yeah

The Black and Brown Summit It has to happen I mean they keep being setbacks But the The The The and sisters, they shut down the 101.

They did. And today, I think, is a protest day. It's a day without a Mexican. Is what? It's a day where the Mexicans in L.A. are supposed to not go to school. Oh, is it really? Yeah, yeah. I saw a shout out to a brown bag over there.

We mean too late. The Brown Back Show, Power 106. I saw it on their Instagram that it was a protest. You know what's funny? It was when I went on, I saw the brown bag and I completely support the protest. of the Mexican people against Donald Trump. Of course we do.

Completely support. But when I went into the comments of Power 106, the Brown Bag Show, and I looked into the comments from other Mexican people, they were,

they were multiple, multiple, multiple comments from people going, why are we singling Trump out? Why are we doing this? Oh, gosh. We have to have the summit. We have

have the Black and Brown Summit. We have to have the Black and Brown Summit. There were multiple because I'm like, hey, like you would be crazy not to support a group of people who feel particularly persecuted by an office as strong and high as the presidency for what you have to support them. But I guess we shouldn't be surprised because we know how many people in this country voted for Trump. So of course, there is pushback and any type of pushback towards Trump. So we shouldn't be shocked. It's so wrong and so disappointing.

But I'm not, we shouldn't be shocked. These people voted for him. Well, when I say these people, we don't want to say. I'm saying these people in the comments. Yeah. Oh, the people in the comments, we should say that. Yeah, I'm the first person to say we shouldn't generalize. Like on this podcast, I'm on record saying we should not generalize and say like this is,

this, y'all voted for him. No, they all did not vote for him. They did. But there is a large number that did. you did come out there the percentages show there were record numbers in certain categories within you know was it Latino men it was like the right it it went up so yes there's a huge sector that did but I'm not going to generalize and say y'all did this you can ask you a question yes we're doing that because we want um we're doing that because we want uh because we see ourselves in

solidarity with them, right? Because with Latinos and Hispanics. We're doing that because the reason why I say that is because when you look at white women who voted for Trump at, I think it was 53% that time, that was the 53% number.

And if you look at Latino men, if it was 54%, white women took it on the chin. I'm not arguing for white women, by the way. I'm just saying that it is a different thing. White women took it on the chin for that. But if you seemingly if you hold Latino men or Latino group to the same standard and you say, hey,

54% of you guys voted for Donald Trump. So this is what you are. You get pushback for that in a way. And I think that's because of the historic solidarity that we've had or the fact that we want to have solidarity with the Hispanic and Latino community in a way that we maybe don't feel like we want to have solidarity with. white women. Yeah. But it is the same thing if you're just talking numbers.

It is the same thing. Now, we should look and make sure that we're, give me a second here, Ashley. I'm going to get these numbers real quick.

Okay, so the Latino vote here for Donald Trump was 52% of men. So we're talking about the man. Fifty-two percent of Latino men voted for Donald Trump. And so we should be very, very careful here because when you look at Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, all of these places, the numbers vary.

Of course. Okay. So we're going to bunk or debunk. Bunk or debunk. Mexicans voted for Harris, 62%. Puerto Ricans, 59%, Cubans, 40%, Central Americans, 56%, South Americans, 53% other Latinos, 66% from Per Harris. So when you look at the entire groups, you're looking at basically 52% of Latino men that voted for Trump. All right. So the narrative may not be as true as it seems. That doesn't shock me at all.

It doesn't shock me. Men getting it wrong. Damn. See how we're talking about the different numbers here. Just want to make sure. And I think one thing that we don't talk about enough, which is why the Black and Brown Summit would actually be a really important thing

is because we don't break down. We generalize when we talk about Latinos and not breaking down the differences within the overall term. So. So it, you look, oh, look at the Apple Pencil. So I'm glad you did that. Look at the Apple Pencil. Take the song back.

I apologize about the too late to apologize for that. We might just take it out of the podcast. Take it out of the podcast. Yeah, we take too late to apologize for the essays out of the podcast because it's not real. So I'm just going to be in there doing this. Yeah. There was a song that I sang earlier that I had made up about and we had to take the part. We have to take the song out of it.

I made up a song. Because every song he makes is not a hint. They're not good. They're not good. Most of them are good. It's hit or miss. It's 50-50 for sure. Okay.

So I'll put another song in real quick before we get through that. You got a backup. Do you ever set your alarm and your alarm goes off on iPhone? All the time. Okay. And it plays a tune. No, I can't get mine to play a tune. So it just makes, oh, you mean like a song?

Like a little. It plays like a little tone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I made up a song for that. It's the alarm song. It's the alarm song. song, it's the alarm song, it's the alarm song. Time to wake up, time to wake up.

Get your cake up, cake to bake up. It's the alarm song. It's the alarm song. It's the alarm song. It's the alarm song. Time to wake up. Worlds to shake up. Get your cake up. Time to wake up. I would take my phone and throw it against a wall. Ashley, thank you.

Trump. Ashley. Speaking of all of this, Donald Trump. Trump watch real quick. Trump has kicked off a trade war with Canada and Mexico. 25% on goods, 25% tariffs, shall I say, on goods from Canada and Mexico, the lower rate of 10 Canadian oil and 10 imports from China. Canada and Mexico ordered retaliatory tariffs on American goods. Canada initially ordered tariffs on 25% of a Mexican import start on February 4th.

Trump has said these tariffs are because of fentanyl. The fentanyl that is, he says, it's pouring into the American border from Canada and Mexico. And immigration. And immigration. Trudeau stood on business seemingly. It says these tariffs will have real consequences for you. Okay.

Here's the thing, though. Mexico has caved. Trump has announced that he is pausing the U.F. the U.S. tariffs targeting imports from Mexico for a month after the country's president agreed to send 10,000 troops to the Mexico border to combat the flow of fentanyl. They apparently have had a very Mexican president, Shinebaum, they've had a very, and Trump have had a very friendly conversation where it looks like those tariffs will be paused as Mexico sends troops to the border to combat fentanylton. which is what Trump wanted. Well, I thought he also wanted, it's not just fentanyl, he also wants them to stop illegal immigrants.

Fentanyl seemed to be the big thing, though. I'll be honest with you. It seemed like he was saying that he's blaming Mexico and Canada for Fentanyl pointed to the United States. You know what's interesting, though? I feel like that's not the headline. The headline is it's not that it's fentanyl's that 10,000 troops are going to be blocking the border,

which to citizens, they'll say, oh, it's for immigration purposes. And it's actually not. All I take away from this is, yes, Mexico, okay, I don't think Canada is going to be the same thing, especially because he keeps insulting Canadians, their country, their government, their people. So I just don't think that, and he treats them like he can just roll over them. And I just don't think Canada is as willing to back off in the same way. But all this screams to me is that Trump is willing to leverage Americans' well-being for his ego, for his power, for his authority to get the things that he wants. It again shows, and of course, this is preaching to the choir.

He does not care about you. He does not care about how the economy affects you. He doesn't care about anything with you as a person and how you are able to function in this country. He will leverage it all to get the things that he wants. And that's what's happening with this tariff war. So look, here is the situation. That is a win for Donald Trump. Anytime they fold it is, of course.

Of course they will take it and spin it in every way. It's a win for Donald Trump. It is. He positions himself as a strong man who's got the best goods. And the best goods is the American economy, American military power, American cultural dominance, right? So anytime he holds that stick over a country or a leader's head, waves it around, and then that leader caves or folds,

that's a win for the strongman. Strong men don't seek to compromise within a nation or outside of it. It's a win for the strong man. The only way for, and this is very hard to say, the only way for Donald Trump's brand of domestic politics and geopolitical action to fail is for the lives of Americans to get harder. So if you want an America, it's just a fact, if you want an America where we sort of lured over Canada, lord over Mexico, dictate and term set to countries all over the world, if that's your vision of being a part of the global community,

then Donald Trump is your president. He's the guy that's going to say, we are going to tank your economy unless you do what we say. We are going to tank your economy unless you move the way we move. We have all of these problems, and unless you help us fix them, we are going to cut your economy off at the knees, right? If that's the version of America that you like,

then don't trump your God. If you want an America where we're part of the global community, where we are a part of the global community that seeks to take care of our citizens and also seats to be a nutritious and a contributing member of the global community to where American imperialism is not the number one priority, then Donald Trump is not your guy.

However, if there ever is, or seemingly there is now, an American president that uses American economic and military power as a means to corral the rest of the world, that president will probably be successful in doing that. They probably will be. And the only way for that to, for him to not be successful doing that is Americans would have to stop it. Like, and the only way that would happen is if Americans' lives got harder. If the tariffs raise prices, if the tariffs raise prices here in America and Americans complain about it because Trump's brand of populism doesn't include a lot of the things that he's doing.

Like a lot of the things that he's doing, these are not populous things. Like free in the January 6 people, it's not a populist idea. Most Americans don't like that, right? And some of these other things, like, I don't think tariffs that would drive up and be, you know, immediately inflationary are populist ideas. Well, they're not. We know that the number one issue was the economy. We know that groceries have gone up in the last five years 28%. What's the last time you had eggs?

I eat eggs all the time. Okay. I can't find. They're not at my grocery. store. I've had eggs once this month. I mean, not this month. This year. I'm not going to go on a search, but if I go to my local grocery store and it's empty, I'm not going to go on a hunt for eggs. The point is, it's difficult to find them, is my point. The point is the groceries have gone up almost 30% in the last five years. I say that in response to what you're saying, I agree with

everything, but I think that things having to get bad is the first part. The blame has to be placed in the right place is the second part. Because if things got bad for people or worse next month, they are still going to blame it on Biden, his administration, Democrats, and DEI. It has to be worse, bad for a while. So I'm saying. And then they have to then place the blame in the right place for people to be, because I agree, things are going to have to be, we're going to have to be hit hard.

Things are going to have to get bad, worse for things to change. And then for people to realize where it's actually coming from. And it's got to be for a while. Two things. And then we can, like, leave the Trump world. I'm so glad that we didn't have a huge Trumpy podcast this Monday. A couple things. Number one, what's always unclear in this is results.

It's unclear whether or not sending 10,000 Mexican troops to the border will do anything to curb the fentanyl point into the country. It's unclear. I don't know. I haven't read very much that can substantiate whether or not that is actually a fix to stopping the flow of fentanyl into the country. So that's the first thing. We don't know if that'll even work. We do know, though, that it happening is to Trump's base and to other people who view the American president as someone who should be a strong man, is read me to them. We can make Canada do this. We can't make Mexico do this. if we just impose ourselves on them. And that's going to be that type of world governance

can outlast Donald Trump as president. And that type of world governance leads to me to terrible feelings about America worldwide, the treatment of American citizens when they travel abroad. And to be honest with you, direct action against America

when you intervene geopolitically and what people are doing or when you force the hand of other governments, what you start to do is foster anti-American sentiment worldwide. And I'm sorry, I know people think that this is a fortress and it doesn't visit upon us ever, but it does. It does in a bunch of different ways. So I think this is bad governing. However, to the people who Donald Trump is puffing,

this chest out to, this is unquestionably a win for him. It looks good. Yeah. It looks good for sure. We're out. It's over. No more.

We're not going to talk about things that have happened on social media. Why? With people that we know. I just thought it was interesting. What's interesting about it? I wouldn't go. We're not going to talk about it. We're not going to talk about it.

It more would have been a segment of like, would you do this? That'd be your question to me. Or do you think it's wrong? Okay. Let's do that. then real quick. Actually, I don't want to talk about that. That's why I said maybe.

That's what I said maybe. Okay, we're out. We're done. We're done. No more podcast. Thank you to Justin Charity and to Logan Murdoch. And remember what I said about how disgusting

what happened on the red carpet was. Take us out. The only way to fix a problem is to go straight through it. So you guys have to see more. to understand how bad this is. If you think caps off, but not stop learning and don't stop learning

about Bianca. I'm Van Lathen, Jr. Perfect. He's Van Latham. I'm Rachel Lindsay. Bye, guys.