Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The LAST Biracial Conversation With Molly Daniel, Plus the Gaza Ceasefire

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

Van and Rachel react to the news of a new ceasefire proposal being accepted by Hamas before welcoming Molly Daniel to the podcast to provide some perspective on the ongoing biracial discussions. (0:00)  Intro (3:57)  Tyla on the ‘coloured’ controversy  (18:43)  Jamie Lee Curtis’ boobs (25:18)  Trump names Kennedy Honorees  (34:49)  Gaza ceasefire proposal (39:22)  Gavin Newsom’s trolling  (50:33)  Kaepernick & Spike Lee ESPN doc  (53:17)  Whitney Houston’s receipts (58:37)  Molly Daniel joins the show (1:46:14)  KKK shirt offends racist  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on, is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. You guys are going to love it. We had a 45-minute conversation about biratious. Molly came on.

But let me just say, I know what you're already thinking. You're thinking you're going to get more of the same that you've gotten before on the show. The difference is we have a biracial voice on the show. And it's not an interview. It's a conversation, which I think we love most here at Higher Learning. When it's not an interview, just asking questions, it's a back and forth. And I think, I think it's a good conversation.

I just want to say straight up. I think we're still on the, we're exactly where we started. No, no, no, no, no, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're not. I want to say this. I want to apologize because, I really want to apologize because I meant what I said, but I'll say this. See what I'm saying exactly. No, no, no, no, it's important. It's important.

Like, I won't, I can't give, by the way, the hood, the hood in Baton Rouge is not fucking with you right now. Wait, finish your thought and then we'll go back to that because I want to I want you to finish your apology. I can't. So this is what I'll say, man, I, we talk about it with Molly. Look, I have to think about people's humanity and experiences when I talk, right? When I talk, I have to make sure that I speak in sensitivity and love because that's where I'm coming from, sensitivity and in love with all black people.

I have to make sure I do that. I have to make sure I do that. Even when I'm giving opinions that I think have merit, I have to make sure that I'm being a communicator that widens the tent so everybody feels safe when I'm talking. I desperately want you guys to feel safe when I'm talking to feel safe around me. I want you to be, I want to incite you. I want people to know. I want to incite you. I want to make you uncomfortable because I don't want you to ever get uncomfortable. I don't want you ever to be comfortable in a society that has so many dangers. So I want you to be ready. But I don't want you to be, I don't want you to live in fear

of me. I don't want to be the enemy. I want to be a person of sometimes inconvenient and odd truths, but I want you to know that when you're talking to me, you're talking to your big brother, your unc and all of that. So,

Unk, Unk, Van. What happened to, what, what's, I feel like when you say the hood ain't fucking with me in Baton Rouge is like one person. Three. Who are the, is it the player proof crew? It's one member of the player proof crew. Oh my God, guys.

But they wasn't feeling the Shikari thing, the Shikari thing. Oh, I... They was like... You know what's so funny? If you watch it, I'm laughing all the way through. Yeah. And you were like, I'm... It's such an unserious segment.

Like, I... Like, I... It's so unserious. And if you took it to heart, I'm sorry. My home boy was like... My homeboy was like, yeah, man, tell Rachel, tell Rachel it is, it's like, if Shikari, grab a gun and, and kill the nigger.

Can we get so long? I said she was wrong, but again, like, it's, it would, it was more fun to give a five than it was to give. I love that it, it got such a big response. That's okay. Y'all ain't fucking with me. I'm still fucking with y'all.

You know I love me a Louisiana man. Yeah, maybe. They don't feel, you know what? Rachel, I'd be honest with you now. I just want to say it this way. The brothers in Louisiana, they don't feel safer. you know, they don't feel like you saw their feelings.

That's fine. There's plenty to go around. Those three can go away. Yeah. So you got some, now those are going to be left, the Michael Porter Jr.'s. You are, you are, careening. He would never check for me. You are careening on everything he doesn't want.

Down the path of the Michael Porter Jr.'s. Those are the niggas that's going to be left. I live in L.A. I fly, I fly on planes and live flats. I, yeah, like, everything this man does not want. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner.

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Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfaira Radio.com. All right, speaking about racials, Donnie, let's talk about Tyler. Oh, let's do it. In a profile with variety, Tyler, the South African pop star, discussed the backlash that she received after identifying as colored in 2020, which is a description of standard from where she's from,

but obviously carries completely different connotations around the world. This is what Tyler said. That was really confusing for me. I understood both sides of the story, but I was left asking, okay, but what do I do now? I feel sorry for her. Do you now? Tyler's never going to live down.

For the black community, black Americans, people who are aware of that interview with the Breakfast Club, she's never going to live that down, particularly because the video is more damning than the lack of her response. When Charlemagne asked her the question, she immediately turns to somebody on her team like,

you know what to do, step in, I'm not talking about this. It's an immediate denial. It was the silence. It was the action of it all. It was everything. So I don't feel sorry for her for that. I feel like that's why she's never going to live that down.

I feel sorry for her because she, I truly feel, was ignorant to black American culture. And she should have, the moment she started to come over here and she was going to do press, somebody should have prepped her, a bet or educated her. She should have been knowledgeable about black American culture, black American experience. And so in a way I understand, same way I do with the biracial community, you want to identify with everything that you are. But you also have to understand when you don't, when you deny certain parts of who you are, there are repercussions to that, particularly within the Black American community. So I truly think she had no idea what she was walking into, not for the Breakfast Club interview because she'd been asked before. but then it was damning with what she did with that when it's like, if you're saying that you're black and you're colored,

then why not just answer the question and just say that? You sounded scared. You sounded like you didn't understand or that you didn't want to be affiliated with blackness. But I don't know if I contribute that to the lack of record sales. Well, it's a part of it to me. She just dropped the EP called We Won a Party July 25th. It did not chart.

Okay. Well, no, I shouldn't say it. Only sold like 4,000 copies. There are, I guess, three singles that are from this, or three... There are four songs. The four different songs. None of these records charted.

I'm looking at them right now. None of these records charted on the U.S., like the main pop charts. They charted on some other charts. Afro beach charts. They charted on the R&B charts. but she didn't have what you would call like a hit record or a song that's actually a top 100 song

on the EP and that's in the streaming era when that's a lot easier to do and what that tells me is it's very simple that people saw Tyler records on their shit and they just did not play them

which is a profound thing I want people to understand this when I was a youngin you have to get up and go to the store. Right, right, right. To buy the music. So your interest had to be totally different. You had to know something was dropping, and the way that they built interest was,

man, this person was everywhere. The first thing you did, particularly in the hip-hop, I'll take Snoop, for example. First time I see Snoop is Deep Cover. Snoop and Dre Deep Cover. Then, after that record comes out, that record is crazy.

Then Snoop is all over the chronic. And so I'm starting to understand Snoop. I'm starting to understand Snoop's flow. I'm starting to understand Snoop's personality. I'm getting invested into Snoop. Because remember, at this time, I'm a kid. So it's even more of a job that they have and making me go get doggy style. Because I got to get a ride to get doggy style.

I got to get doggy style without my parents knowing, right? even though they wouldn't care. I got to go to the store to get it. So you have to generate so much interest in an artist to make somebody get up, go to the store, stop, put it in, do the whole nine, right? You know, we was taping the videos. We were taping the singles when they were on the radio.

And they make, we really a lot of effort to do that. By the time doggy style comes out, I felt like I was not a part of humanity if I did not hear it. I could not be a person who had not heard dog style. I had to have heard it. I got to hear it. Whatever happens,

I got to hear every song on the album. I got to be able to talk about it. I got to experience the music. Too much equity in Snoop Dogg. That's totally different now. Now, the only thing that you are asked to do is click on a song when you see it. That's it.

It's all right there. So if you are not doing that, it's because you have a fundamental disinterest in the artist. It's a fundamental disinterest in the artist. And that comes from all kinds of reasons. Because some of this music, we're not listening to some of this music because we feel like these people have had their say.

They're rappers that have been around for years that are dropping ridiculously good music. They're not getting stream because we didn't already heard it. We feel like they've had their say. They're R&B singers that have made amazing music, right? That drop more music. We don't listen to it because we feel like they've already had their say. Okay, who's supposed to be talking now?

for some reason people saw Tyler on there. They saw new music from Tyler, a artist that just basically came out a couple of years ago and had a number one, a top 10 hit at least with water. Oh, water was. And they went, not interested. Okay.

And even devoting three minutes of your life to just hear from Tyler, like, just not doing it. Why didn't you listen to Tyler? Well, I never listened to Tyler. Okay. Not my thing. But you knew water. I knew water because it was everywhere.

But did you ever like press play and listen to it? No. I'm not going to listen to that. So I'm not going to put the fucking thing down and shake that ass. You know, maybe I would. So the reason I say, I don't know. The reason I say I don't know if it was related to her perception here by black people in America. For me, I'd rather watch Tyler perform than listen to her songs.

Okay. It's the image. It's the dancing. It's like I, so I'm not interested in necessarily, it's not like I don't dislike her music. I'm not curious enough to press play. Like, oh, she dropped a new EP. I'd rather watch a performance.

That's me. But what I'm saying is, for a lot of people, though, you think it's related to. When the disinterest is that high, it's not just that they're not interested. They're actually turned off. Do you think people, like, do you honestly think, like, for me,

I forgot about it until her record sales. came out. I was like, oh, yeah, she did say that on the breakfast club. Oh, yeah, she... Truly, I've seen Tyler multiple times that I, when I see her, I don't think, oh, she don't think she's black. But I think there are a lot of people that do. Look, here's a deal. I'll say this. If she has an

undeniable smash hit record, it's going to be fine. Really, it is. Because being who Tyler wants to be, which is a pop stall on the likes of a Beyonce or Rihanna or whatever, that is about

being undeniable. You either have to have a record that is undeniable or you yourself has to be undeniable. Rihanna got all kinds of records, right? She got some of the best records ever. But also, it is undeniable

that Rihanna, the person, the actual person, is a star. She has a magnetism that is otherworldly. You want to be in the same room. You want to she has that. With Beyonce, Beyonce, say drop first fucking solo single

of her record era. I'm not talking about the other stuff like check on it and all that other stuff and like first solo single boom crazy love boom I'm here I'm not that's it I'm here for 20 fucking years I'm here this record

has its own ethos it's own vibe it's own there's a star element like it I'm you look at it. I'm here. 50 cent. All of this says, like, you have to be undeniable. If she comes back with something like that,

she'll be fine. But I can tell you one thing. The person, Tyler, is deniable. And it is, the person who she is, the star that Tyler is, as beautiful as talented as she is, she did something to turn people off. And people are okay saying,

we don't like Tyler. And I, honestly, I think it's unfair. I think it's, unfair because she used the term. I think that was actually an opportunity for us to get a little bit smarter on some perceptions, terms, and things from around the world. I agree. It was also an opportunity for us to have a conversation about whether or not we like that

shit. We don't have to like it, right? But it was an opportunity for us to get a little bit smarter and maybe get a little bit more cultured on it. But she did not give us that opportunity really. 100%. What she really did. What she really did was she said,

hey, this is what we say over here, this is what we talk about over here, blah, blah, blah, I get it, but whatever. She didn't embrace it. She kind of ran from it. And because she ran away from it, we were like, oh, you got something to hide. Oh, you don't want to be black?

Fuck you. Which is what I was talking about when I was talking about the bird. Cardi B came out and defended her and said that she just feels like we're just in an air where people just want to not like celebrities. It's true. And I think that that's true too. I think you really, when you have a big thing like that,

it almost becomes popular to harp on that train and to just not like the person to continue to criticize the person. I think 10 years ago, she would have been just fine. But we live in a day and age now where it's kind of cool or popular

to keep harping on somebody like that. Cardi B has a point. Man, that's TMZ. And let me tell you why. Oh, you're saying they should be credited for this. Yeah. Or they are. Well, no, not even that they should be credited.

it because for everything that I say about Harvey and TMZ, you know, Harvey didn't call me with my dad died. I never knew it for as much as I say about Harvey and TMZ, TMZ and TMZ culture recognize something. Harvey's brilliant. He recognized something. They recognized something. That there was a developing bloodthirst that Americans had for celebrity.

Maybe it always existed. But there wasn't a platform that was there to, really take advantage of it. See, celebrity platforms prior to that, and they were always rags, right? There was always a natural inquirer. There was always places that, you know, treated the celebrity as something of a commodity.

There's always a thirst, right? Even in the 50s, there was, you know, different types of magazines they had that were kind of like TMZ. Like a head of hopper. Right. But particularly TMZ and Perez Hilton and all of that stuff, they realized that people have a specific, bloodthirst for fame

and it's interesting what I think to what Cardi B is talking about now since everyone has a voice is that there are a lot of people out there that want to know what fame cost you and

they want to know that because they want to be able to say I would never pay that for fame so Kim Kardashian right now she's making $50, $100 million a year whatever it is, right? That's not the question.

The question is for a person. Rather or not, you would be okay with the world seeing you fucking suck for that money. I would always ask people, if right now, if I had to take a nude of you a week and put it on your social media

every single week, every Saturday, it's going to be a fresh new to you. You would no clothes on. Different angles, all of that stuff. One a week. but every single week that you did that,

you made a million dollars. So you're making $52 million a year and it's one naked picture of you per week on social media for everybody to see. Like, would you do it? The answer to that question was always so fundamental because there were so many people that would be like, I couldn't do it.

I couldn't do it. I have too much respect for myself. And then when you get them next to somebody else, they're like having to go, what the fuck are you? you fucking crazy? Because human beings are so invested into the price of fame. And TMZ puts on display the price. It lets you look into the price. It lets you decide whether or not you would do that. But that bloodthirst to know just how different these people are or to commodify them,

it was really crystallized with that moment. It kind of depersoned the celebrity. It made the celebrity not a And now just people are not looking, people are looking to figure out how they can get famous off making a celebrity look back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they are. So, I mean, honestly, me, I am here right now in large part. I was on TMZ already in large part because I had a back and forth with a really famous person and I won the back and forth, which made people interested in me to a degree. and then after that, they're going to be looking for somebody as my career continues to grow.

They're going to be looking for somebody to do that to me. And so what Cardi B is saying is true. That is why being a part of a part of being a person right now with a platform is being crystal clear

in what you mean, what you say, and an intention. I agree. I agree. That wasn't a quick hitter, but. Interesting conversation. Let's switch to the Kennedy Centers, I feel like.

No, we got to do, Jaynelly Curtis. This is all van. All right. Let's talk about, let's talk boobs. Jamie Lee Curtis, she caused an online stir for the cleavage that she showed in this promo for a freakier Friday. Take it away. Okay, I got to say something real quick. I am fucking disappointed in y'all.

I am disappointed in y'all. Not knowing that Jamie Lee Curtis has been titian for fucking four. 40 years is like not knowing that Michael Jordan is a deadly score. Jamie Lee Curtis is titties. She's titties. She's a lot more. She can act. She can perform.

She's accomplished a lot. But you mean to tell me you never saw trading places? You never saw a fish called wander. You don't know that Jamie Lee Curtis, you never saw true lies. You don't know that the milk that is Jamie Lee Curtis has been in the refrigerator for years? Who are you? Who are you guys?

Y'all, all of these people, all of these people, who y'all don't know, y'all don't know, y'all don't know that Jamie Lee Curtis is titties? Okay. She's titties. How old are these movies that you're naming? It don't matter. It does matter. It does matter.

It doesn't matter. You know what this reminds me of? It does matter. This reminds me at the time that coffee, the movie came on Black Stars. I've never seen my father more disappointed with me. Coffee came on Black Stars and Pam Greer, God bless you, God damn. So Black Stars was a channel, Rachel, and they would show four black movies a week. I remember Black Star.

Oh, do you? Well, wait, it's Stars, right? But it's Black. But didn't they have? Yeah. There were like different versions of Stars and one of them was Black Stars. Yeah. Now, it was coded. I could watch. You could watch it, but you knew that was there. Okay. So Black Stars, four movies a week. And one of was coffee with Pam Greer. Okay. And I had never seen coffee at this point.

Maybe I'm like 11, 12, whatever, whatever Black Stars came out. I'm watching it. And I remember sitting down and watching coffee, watching Pam Greer and coffee, I'm looking at coffee. I'm like, oh my God, I'm looking at it. I'm like, shit.

And my dad walks into the room, and Pam Greer's form had such a hold on me that I did not have the strength to grab the remote and change the channel. I was locked in. And my daddy looked at me, And my daddy goes, you know about Pam Greer, don't you? And I'm like, no, this is the first time I've seen.

Yeah, why would you? And he goes, boy, what the, you don't know Pam Greer? That's the finest motherfucker. Besides your mama now. That's the finest motherfucker that I never walked the earth. You got to know Pam Greer. You got to know all of these. And we went on a Pam Greer face.

He talked to me about it. And now, but I was a kid. You were a kid. But now I'm the one that's asking everybody. Y'all don't know about Jamie Lee Curtis? Jamie Lee Curtis is what? In her 60s? Maybe 70s.

You're naming movies that came out 40 years ago? What about true lies? I've never seen it. You've never seen the true lies, Jamie Curtis seen? You know, you know me. Oh, Dottie. But my point is, you're talking to a generation that did not grow up on Jamie Lee Curtis,

so that is why that's not how they know her. They know her from Freaky Friday. they might know her as she's used her platform a lot as an activist, like speaking out on certain causes. They don't, they know her in her 60s. So. They don't know her all.

She's just got to 60s. They know, even Halloween. It's like, there's a whole version of that she's been in the latest Halloween movies. They don't even really know her like that from the, from the 70s, it was a 70s,

whenever the first Halloween came out. So it's like they don't know, they're learning her. So you have to give, it makes sense. It makes sense why they don't know. I want to, just like you didn't know at 11th.

when you saw coffee. But that's, but that was me, that was young. That's when you were supposed to learn. I want to tell y'all something, man. These women was fine back in the day. Y'all looking at these women now, and I'm not saying that the women now are not fine.

Y'all are fine. Y'all look good. But I'm telling y'all, man, the 80s and the 90s, if y'all want to go look at different types of fine, at all different varieties of fine, all different shades of fine, I remember, it seemed like in,

2011, we decided that everybody should have the same body or 2013. And so now everybody got the same body and they look good. They look good. They look good. It's great. Doesn't always look good.

Same body, same aesthetic. No. Like y'all, it's fine. Whatever. Y'all, y'all like it. But you could watch the heavy D video, Black coffee, no sugar, no cream. That's the kind of girl I want down on my team.

And just look at the many different versions of black coffee in that video. Like, they got a bunch of, they got Pam Greer's in there. Then we had Ketoy Johnson. We had all of these different types of fine, man. Don't get stuck in today's fine. Go to the fine of yesteryear.

Like, look at, I got, I got homework for all of my brothers out there. I got two words for you. Jane Kennedy. Jane Kennedy, man. What about Marilyn McCu? What about Janet Jackson, the pleasure principle? I'm saying? What about, you know, J.

Y'all don't know Jamie Lee Curtis? They know her. They just didn't know her like that. Think of any, what was the, anywhere, everywhere, all of whatever that movie was called? That's not the Jamie that they saw in that clip. Like, listen, man. They didn't know.

People, people, we, it's a gift from God to be on this earth for a long time, right? It's a gift from God, man, to be on this earth for a long time. I'm going to be honest with y'all. Denzel, y'all going to see Hyasel Lois. Go back and watch Mobetta Blues. Y'all don't know that Denzel himself was. a joint?

It was a joint. Man, move on, man. I was disappointed with this. Like, Jamie Lee Curtis, oh my God, Jamie Lee Curtis got tities. Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis got tithes. No, either.

Sorry. All right. One more quick. Don't laugh at me, Don't before we get to the news. I'm not laughing. Don't laugh. Don't know about the true lies scene, Jamie Lee Curtis?

I did. Thank you, Donnie. I've seen true lies in the movies. I was too young to do that. Extra popcorn, extra butter. hands over my eyes. I pop one of the shudder, you freak. Laugh.

All right. Kennedy Center, let's talk about that. As the new chairman of the Kennedy Center, President Trump personally announced the recipients of the annual honors at a press conference last week. First person, country music star George Strait,

second person, actor Sylvester Stallone, then we got singer Gloria Gaynor. We got the band Kiss. And we got actor, singer, Michael Crawford. Also, Tom Cruise reportedly declined an invite to be among the honorees. This is due to scheduling conflicts.

Michael Crawford. I'm looking up Michael Crawford. Okay, I've seen this guy. Did you say that Trump is hosting the awards himself? Yes, he is also doing that. I didn't say that, but he is. George Strait. I mean, I shouldn't be surprised, but I like George Strait's music.

You familiar with him? Yeah. All my exes live in Texas like I'm George Strait when they go to Georgia State. Well, that's that's Drake. That's Drake. I know, but I know George Straight, though. I feel like you don't really actually make a reference to somebody like that in a record that big unless people have a cultural understanding of who they are. I know George Strait. I know all of these people. Look, being honored by Kennedy Center such a tremendous honor. Is it still? I mean, not to me. Not to me, but it's such a tremendous honor, right? That I can't blame any of these celebrities for being honored. Even Gloria Gaynor.

I wouldn't have done it. Right. I think our audience knows we would not accept it. But this is reminding me of Chrisette Michelle. Right. Right? And people were very upset because how could you link yourself to someone? to Trump. I think is different.

You think being honored is different. Okay. Let me put it this way. If Trump hadn't taken over it the way that he did, right? Let's just say Trump is the president and he decides to honor Gloria Gaynor. But that's not what he did. He's taking it over. Now he's, what did he let everybody go? He's hosting the awards. It's more about

Trump presents the Kennedy Honors, Kennedy Center honors than it is what it was before. So I'll say this very clearly. I would not want to be honored by the Kennedy Center in the way that the Kennedy Center is operating now. And the amount of control that Donald Trump has taken over the Kennedy Center. I would not want to do that. However, I'll have to make that decision because I'm not being honored by the Kennedy Center. Let me tell you why I think the Cressette-Michel thing is different.

Okay. The inauguration is a direct celebration of the president's win. It is, there is a new president coming into office. You are singing for the incoming president. You are exalting him. Now, some people would say it's about America and it's, it's an honor. It's the celebration of the incoming administration. Sure.

So, in my opinion, if you do that, then there is criticism about you sinking to celebrate that. Having said that, I do not think it was worth taking that woman's career for her. Correct. I think it was worth a conversation with Chrisette Michelle about why that bothers us and about what the big deal is. But I think in those types of situations,

Chris, Crette Michelle being a black woman and us just disintegrating her and the whole not. I don't think it was worth all that. But I do think the backlash was worth it. This is different. This is like, it's like saying no to the Presidential Medal of Freedom

because of who the president is. I would do it. I would do it. But I just can't expect all of these performers who have been performing for years and years and years and years. And finally get this type of honor at this type of institution to say no. I would not do it.

I would not do it and I would hope that other people would not do it. And I think it's interesting that Tom Cruise didn't do it because Tom Cruise is not going to let anyone fuck up Top Gun 3. It don't matter who it is.

Tom Cruise is like, I need to get these people out to the theaters and if it's the president that's about to fuck up Top Gun 3, I'm not going to let it happen. The rest of these people are looking back at their careers in a retrospective fact.

This is what they did do. Tom Cruise is still doing it. So he has to be concerned about who's going to see Top Gun 3, who's going to see this next joint that he has coming out. So he's like, this is a bad brand to be aligned with. And I am not going to let this bad brand fuck my show. Very true and very interesting. I'm going to push back on it because I think yours,

I totally understand your comments about what it means for Cressette, Michelle, to sing for an inauguration. That was 2016, right? Yeah. So although we knew things about President Trump, we had not seen the power he can wield and the influence that he can have and the destruction that he can have at that point. There was just speculation to it. And I don't even think we could have imagined how bad it would get. and we'll continue to get. What to accept an honor or the Kennedy Center honors

in the way that Trump has taken over, firing members of the board and trustees, naming himself chairman, getting rid of certain events. There are no more drag events or things like that, saying that he is going to put himself at the head of this to ring in a new golden age of arts in the way that he sees it. And all that he's done from since then,

2016 to 2025, to then say, I am going to be honored by this president under this new regime, under this new outlook of what the Kennedy Center now represents, because it doesn't anymore have the same meaning, in my opinion, as it did prior to him naming himself the chairman, which is why he did it. So to accept it under these circumstances is worse to me than what happened in 2016. Now you know exactly who he is. You know the purpose in which he has taken leadership over the Kennedy Center. And now you're going to be honored by it because he's saying you fit that bill and then be honored by the person who Trump is. To me, it is way worse for a Gloria Gainer to be honored in this way. That's how I see it. I'm not litigating worse. I mean, we knew exactly

who Donald Trump was when he was inaugurated. That was grabbing by the pussy that was Sure, but now we've... But we had had, we had had years of Donald Trump. We had it like, it's, I don't know, I can't really litigate worse. Worse is like, I can't really, worse is... Impact, the impact is worse.

Whatever. I can't litigate if it's worse right now to be a Trump supporter than it was before. I personally think that it was, it's reprehensible either time. So if you're saying that the stakes are higher now, I guess I could get behind that. I guess I can understand that as far as the actual singing of the inauguration and not

is something that you shouldn't have done in 2016. This, the reason why I say it's different is because it's not quite the same thing in terms of being honored by the Kennedy Center and singing at an inauguration. I think that you could make the argument that Trump made the Kennedy Center about himself. And so that if Trump made the Kennedy Center about himself, then now being honored by the Kennedy Center is essentially being honored by Donald Trump. essentially Donald Trump takeover thing. I can get that.

I would not do it. Just like, same thing with the, we're going to the White House. I would not go to the White House to celebrate NBA championship if I was on the, I wouldn't go. For any president? No.

I would go for presidents that I fucked with, right? I would go for presidents that I didn't think, not even presidents that I fucked with. I would go for presidents that I did not think were directly

destroying the fabric of America. I think Donald Trump is a special case. But if there are people that go, look, going to the White House is a part of the ritual of winning a major sports championship. And I'm going to go to the White House because it's an honor that is, that predates and will postdate this particular president. Go. I'm going to look at you differently. But go, but go ahead. I wouldn't go.

So I get it, but I personally would not, I would not stain someone because they got honored by the Kennedy Center from a president that I don't like. I get, I understand people that would. I get that. I totally get it. And I wouldn't do it. But when I looked at this, I was like, what the fuck kids going to do?

You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I was surprised that Gloria Gannon was thrown in there for some diversity, but like, what the fuck kids going to do? News here. a Hamas source says that the group has approved the latest ceasefire proposal according to sources Hamas has accepted a new ceasefire proposal put forward by Egypt and Qatar as Hamas as Hamas says we informed the mediators of our approval of their proposal which was presented yesterday the second source says the proposal that Hamas accepted is a partial deal for a 60 day ceasefire the release of 10 live hostages 18 deceased hostages and the release of Palestinian prisoners. The U.K. government is working at pace to bring sick children

from Gaza to Britain for urgent medical treatment. Downing Street has said. Now, we should also say that there were a half a million protesters that hit the street in Israel. Oh, was the number that big? The number was that big. I knew it was a couple hundred thousand, but wow.

Over the course of the day, it might have actually even bigger. And they are demanding a deal that would result in a ceasefire with and the release of hostages who remained in Gaza. The day of stoppage is what it was called. Blocked rows, closed businesses, and resulted in dozens of arrests. Now, I think that I've actually feel for the 500,000 people that hit the streets.

I actually feel for them. I feel for them because I do not think that the people that have taken control of their government right now are considering their humanity or their safety. I think that they're considering their goals. Right. And the people are pawns. Well, here's the thing about a pawn. A pawn has utility.

So you don't think the people do. No. I think that they're not on the chess board. I think that's a million times worse. Like a pawn you use the pawn and upon, these people are just not being hurt. They're not being hurt because what they're, want, which is very core to feeling safe, families to be reunited, remains to be returned.

I'm not saying that all of the people in these places have lovy, dovey, wishful, hopeful aspirations about living alongside Arab people. I'm not saying that at all. Because if you were to take a microphone and go around in that crowd, you're probably going to find some stuff and hear some stuff you don't like. I'm not saying that at all. But what I'm saying is if peace or stability was the actual goal, of what was happening there right now.

The return of the hostages from the Israeli government side of it would have been one of the first things that they honed in on. Let's make our people feel whole first. Let's do as much as we can do to get the hostages back and make our people feel whole first. Let's do that. Before we destroy infrastructure or even the removal of Hamas, let our people know that we care,

about getting the Israeli people back first and then we'll negotiate or whatever we have to do. We'll prosecute our war, whatever we have to do in a way that makes sense to us. But there's another reason, before I continue to drone on in this, we'll get out of here, but there's another reason why they didn't want to do that

in first place either. Because if you do that, then you don't have, the geopolitical capital to continue to make people believe that this is about something that it's not. What Netanyahu wants people to believe that this is about is actually the return of the hostages or the treatment of the hostages and the elimination of Hamas and safety, but it's not, it's a power and land grab.

So if the world goes, okay, well Hamas return the hostages. you know, obviously there were going to be consequences for October 7th. Hamas returned to hostages. They seemed to be willing to negotiate. They seemed to be willing in good faith to do things. Like coming back and killing 100,000 people, everybody's going to go, you didn't have to do that. Like you didn't have to do it.

But I don't know. When I saw all of this, I was just, I was, I was, I know that there have been mass protests about this. But I felt for people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Stick in to politics. California Governor Gavin Newsom has made trolling Trump a part of his strategy for opposing

the president and his gerrymandering push. The governor's office has kind of adopted Trump's all-capped style and tone in social media posts. He's also posted some AI pictures and memes very much in the Trump style. This is a quick clip of Gavin Newsom speaking in a press conference about his new strategy. that are clearly totally the president. Can you just talk about that? Is that like a strategy?

I don't know. I hope it's a wake-up call of the President of the United States. I'm sort of following his example. If you've got issues with what I'm putting out, you sure as hell should have concerns about what he's putting out as president. So to the extent it's gotten some attention, I'm pleased. But I think the deeper question is,

how have we allowed the normal? the normalization of his tweets through social posts over the course of the last many years to go without similar scrutiny and notice. He's right. He's right. I mean, you know, we talk about Trump's antics and his tweets or things he says and, you know, I laugh about him and you say, you like Trump. You think he's funny.

But it's almost because you do. And he's funny, but I don't like him. but we've become desensitized to Trump and his antics. It's like, oh, that's just Trump. He's one of one. He's, this is what he does. But it holds weight. And I think Gavin Newsom coming back and doing exactly what Trump is doing

highlights the ridiculousness of the things that Trump says, the trolling, what he represents, what he stands for, particularly with truth, social, or in any social media context. I like it. I think one thing that we've talked about when it comes to the Democrats, and I'm not saying like I'm fully behind Gavin Newsom and he's, you know, without fault in any kind of way. It's just one thing that we talk about is Democrats have to get creative. Democrats need to present strong.

Democrats need to fight fire with fire to use Gavin Newsom's words. And this is a method of doing that. Is it immature? Sure. So is what Trump is doing immature. But I think it highlights, it's going to highlight the hypocrisy. We've already seen it. You have people in conservative media who are already calling Gavin Newsom childish, but yet

then they don't recognize that Trump has been doing this for years on years on years. So I think it's going to highlight hypocrisy, but it's also going to highlight, like I said, how ridiculous Trump is. I like it. Keep getting creative, whether it's with gerrymandering, whether it's with social media. I think this is what we need to do. We need to stop pretending like we're above everything, right? That's just what they do.

We're above it. We don't act like that. The only way to win, I think, is to play their game and play it better. So, Gavin Newsom is a pretty standard centrist Democrat and corporate guy. Sure. It's not like... He's not progressive. political Jesus or anything like that.

You know, I'm more concerned with policy than I am about anything else. Like, my question to anybody that's seeking political offices, what do you do to make people's lives better? You care more about making people's lives better? Do you care more about making Raytheon's lives better? Then Exxon's life better. Whatever, however, I will say this. I'm not voting for no nice guys.

So just get out. Out, that's out. I'm not voting for no nice guys. I'm voting for the first Olivia Pope I see. That's it. No nice guys, it's over. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no.

Fuck it. Fuck it all. Bye. Go. No more nice people. No. Because y'all, no, not too nice. I'm not voting for you.

Get out of you. You're done. Okay? I'm voting for the first fucking killer that I see. I don't want fighters anymore. Fighters lose. I want killers. Killers.

earth. I want the political movement to disenfranchise black people, to harass them, to have people jumping out of unmarked vehicles, snatching people off the street, the people that erase Jackie Robinson, the people that make black kids drink dirty water, I want it gone. I'm done with it. I'm over. So I want somebody who fights dirty enough for black kids to have clean water. That's what I want. So I don't know if that's Gavin Newsom. I don't know. I mean, Gavin Newsom is kind of a fucking, like, in my opinion, I've always liked, I'll be

honest with you. I've always liked seeing Gavin Newsom in spots, in places where he's talking to people from the right because he's very well spoken. he is very direct in messaging and he seems to know a lot. So I've on this podcast before, I've talked about the fact that, you know, you see Gavin Newsome on Fox.

You see Gavin Newsom in different places. And he's impressive when he's up against someone, when he has an enemy to debate with. He's impressive. I'll say this, though. He's a standard corporate do-nothing type of, he is, he is, he is. He's a, and I wouldn't say do-nothing.

Yeah. But he's a standard corporate, Democrat and I am so fucking sick of those guys like watching Corey Booker and Hakeem Jeffries cosplay as NWA none of that fucking shit moves me

all of that. I give him credit for something that's resonating with people I absolutely do and the reason why I give him credit is because I don't give a fuck who you are I'm not voting for any

fucking nice guys. Decent. you must be decent but you must be on fire about dismantling the political movement that threatens people's lives and you, I have to believe that you will do anything to do that. Yeah, I mean, I like what Gavin Newsom is doing. I just said that.

I'm confused at times by Gavin Newsom and as he, you know, ends out his term as governor and then we'll eventually announce him running for president for 2028. I'm curious to see where he lands because I'm like, I'm with you. He's a corporate centrist. He's not progressive in any way that I've seen. But he seems to be willing to fight in ways that we don't see. And maybe because he has the power as being governor of California.

We see him fighting in ways and speaking out of ways that we don't necessarily see traditional Democrats do. But I'm confused by him. not going to forget him having his podcast when we see him challenge DeSantis in such a big way and we like it so we know he has the ability to do it, but we see you cozy up to Charlie Kirk. We see you cozy up to Steve Bannon. I'm trying to understand who are you. There seemed to be a different response in the way that the administration criticized you and the handling of the wildfires here in California versus the response that we got

when you were upset about the National Guard being deployed here in California. So I just want to know which one are we going to get, not just on the campaign trail, but also if you do get into office with the administration. That's my biggest concern with him. Who is Gavin Newsom really? Gavin Newsom was conveniently able to avoid a number on one of my favorite sites, track apac.com. Lobby total, TBD.

How do you avoid it? Not sure. I'm looking on this list. And Apack guy is. Who gets paid the most? You're not going to want to hear it. Tell me.

Tell me now. Kamala. Yeah. $9.4 million. I mean, obviously that was presidential campaign. How much is Pete getting? P. Buttigieg? Mm-hmm.

Or did he get? About $200,000. Corey Booker. 8701,000. Do some of the people who might be running for president in 2028? Let's hear their numbers. Okay, so give me an example. Westmore?

Gretchen Whitmer. Gretchen Whitmer is on here. Gretchen Whitmer has accepted $250,000 for me. Pennsylvania. Josh Shapiro. Thank you. Lobby total TBD, but it says in red, this candidate is pro-Israel,

so it doesn't have the amount of money that APAC has donated. there's one person on here this is Alexandria Ocasio Cortez this candidate rejects Israel lobby contributions this representative has a strong voting legislative record on Israel-Palestine issues

I do know that people were disappointed with a vote that she cast recently but look once again guys there are going to look at this and be like man this makes us uncomfortable that you guys are looking at the A-PAC tracker this is to be honest with you guys

I have to be honest, I don't care. What I care about is knowing that people are not in the bag of a specific lobby. Do we do the same with the NRA? Whenever, I just want to say this real quick before we move on. Like, you know, we have the gun control argument. And then when we're having the gun control argument, people say, well, how much money have you taken from the NRA? because they understand that if you've taken a shit ton of money from the NRA, then maybe a bunch of children getting killed in Parkland or Sandy Hook or in Yuvaldi.

Maybe you're not in the best place to be super objective on that, right? When you look at, by the way, you guys can, when you look at this list, it's everyone. I think most people are saying. You know what I mean? Like when you look at this list, it's everyone. It's everyone. Elizabeth Warren is on this list. Oh, how much with her?

Not from A-PAC, but from J Street. She's taking $300,000. So it's different, but the pro-Israel lobby is very, very, very dense. What else do y'all want to hit on? We don't have much time. Chelsea's asking how much time is that? I mean, I know you want to hit on

the documentary being shelved at ESPN. We don't have to. The only thing I'll say about the documentary being shoved at ESPN is this. Because I got to talk about Whitney Houston, too. The only thing I'll say about the documentary being shelved is this. It is not true that the documentary is being shelved because of creative differences between Spike Lee and Colin Kaepernick. That's not true.

Okay, because I did see some of that reporting. Okay, so it's not true. The documentary is done. And let me tell you guys something else. Not only you guys can say that I'm, I am not, I worked this story yesterday like a true TMZ baby. And one piece of evidence that I used to work this story is an email that I got.

I was in that documentary. I am in that documentary. I'm in it. I was interview for it. And I got an email last year. This is 2024 asking me to send a picture of myself at my desk at TMZ for the B-roll of the documentary. The doc is in post. How do you know it's done?

Because that I was able to kind of get. Okay, but, okay, that part. Because I'm like, just because you send in the picture, doesn't mean it's done. Well, what I'll tell you. you though is if they are looking for assets to add to a segment then that tells me that that segment has been put together and whatever creative differences might have existed on that particular they are collating and putting together the documentary. But you have other evidence.

It's not that I have other evidence but that in and of itself. This is 2024 where this doc is in post and for people that have created stuff and have done stuff before you know that they are down the road creatively on this. And if they didn't know where they were going creatively, I'm not saying that everything was always Peaches and Cream creatively between Spike and between Colin Kaepernick because they are two very strong voices. So I'm sure I know that there were probably things creatively that homes that they had to get over.

But from what I'm led to believe, they were able to get over those humps. The reason why the documentary is not going to come out on ESPN, which by the way, could come out somewhere else, on ESPN is other shit. And I'll let the people that are telling that story, tell that story about why they feel like that's coming out. But it has nothing to do with creative differences. If people want to blame 40 acres and a mule or people want to blame Colin Kaepernick and his camping, that's not why this, this is finished. This is done. This is locked. It's whatever creative differences that were had or whatever was going on, they were able to get past them.

This is done. The documentary is finished. It's finished. They did it. Doc is done. So if it's not coming out, there are other reasons, but that's not my story to tell. All right, real quick, there's a huge, huge problem that I have. With what?

It's a gigantic problem. Something hit me, and it's about Whitney Houston. What? Now, remember when Whitney Houston was doing the interview? With? Dan Sawyer, I think it was. Okay. People said that Whitney was crazy because she asked for what?

I don't remember. Donnie, do you remember? What was Whitney Houston crazy for asking for during this interview? Receipts, right? Receipts. They said she asked for a receipt. Have you seen this interview? It's been a long time.

You don't know this? I'm aware of the interview. Did she ask for receipts? I don't remember. Sorry. Just make your point. Fuck. Make your point.

You don't know the Whitney Houston crack? I'm sorry. Of course I remember the crack is whack. I remember that. Okay. I remember all of that. I don't remember the receipts part. Whitney Houston,

everybody's like, oh my God, Whitney Houston asked for receipts. Actually, Donnie played the clip real quick. This says $730,000 drug habit. This is a headline. Come on. 730? I wish.

No, I wish you ever's making that money off of me and share it with me. No way. No way. I want to see the receipts from the drug dealer that I bought $730,000 worth drugs from. I want to see receipts.

Donnie, stop it. Okay, listen to me. The entire time that people are talking about this, they're going, oh my God, Winnie Houston, drug dealers don't write receipts. There's something that people are leaving out about that clip. Winnie Houston is right in that clip. She's definitely right.

Diane Sawyer says to her, one drug dealer says $700,000, $730,000 worth of drugs they sold you. They didn't say, man, I know I didn't sold over a million dollars of drugs to Whitney Houston. Or they didn't say, hey, man, just to let you know, I didn't sold Whitney Houston a gang of drugs. They said they sold her $730,000 worth of drugs. They had an exact number.

They said $730,000 worth of drugs. Okay. If you know exactly how much drugs you've sold me, then you must be keeping track of of it. I want to say it. So when she said, I want to see receipts, everybody went, oh, my God, Whitney, there are no receipts for drug dealers and drug people selling you drugs. No. No. No. No. Like, Whitney had a right to know who was keeping tabs on how much drugs she was being sold because they said they were. Right now, if I go to the thing and they say, hey, Van, this is let you know, in the heyday of Only

fans, you spent. I don't know, $3,000, $3,200 on Holy Fans. I'm going to be like, I want to see it. I want to see the money that spent. So for everybody that was getting on Whitney, why do we get on Whitney Houston? Why do we act, make it like, Donna, you've heard this, right? They were like, Whitney, drug deals don't keep receipts.

Well, this drug dealer knew exactly how much he had sold her. Allegedly. Well, allegedly, I'm not, we don't need to say allegedly. He said he knew. So being, we don't need to say allegedly, he said he knew whoever this drug dealer was, they said that they knew how much, they didn't allegedly say they knew, they said that they knew how much drugs they sold Whitney Houston, then Whitney Houston says, I want to see the receipts for a direct number that she was given,

and then we all went, Whitney drug dealers don't keep receipts, well then how do they know how much drugs they sold you? Where is this coming from? It's coming from the fact that I think that people unfairly besmirate, Whitney Houston for demanding exact numbers to an exact number. It's so random. And I don't know why we did this to it. He is alleging. He is alleging something.

He is alleging that that is the amount he paid, which is why she said it's giving the receipts. He's saying, whatever, all I'm saying, the alleging thing to be said, he's saying something definitively. He's saying, I did this. It's, for sure, it's allegation, whatever. All I'm saying is when Whitney Houston, we got, we owe. Whitney Houston's memory, an apology because everyone that made it seem like Whitney was crazy

for asking for the receipts, she was asking for the receipts to a direct number. Let's title this at the bottom, just Vans' random thoughts. Because when you said you want to talk about Whitney, I just knew it was tied to something that we had been talking about or maybe something that popped up or maybe some discourse on X that, because I'm not on it, that, you know, I'm, missed, but this is just a random thought. Real quick. We got to get to Amali, but we're having a biracial conversation.

You guys are going to be... The last one. I don't know why I continue to be controlled. Oh, you're definitely not. If, if tomorrow I decide that I want to talk about biracial, I'm going to talk about it. But I'll say this, though, out of respect to the biracial community and to Rachel, I've made a truce with the biracial community. This is the last conversation that we're going to have at least for a while.

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You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Molly Daniel Watson. Is it Daniel Watson? We're back to Daniel. Watson is divorced as of recent. Congratulations. Another one buys the dust.

Thank you. I feel great. I feel really good. You know, somebody said it to me very quickly. after. And at first I was like, congratulations. And then they explains it. And I was like, thank you. So I try to pass that on. Congratulations. I appreciate that. Congratulations to you as well. Thank you. Life. Okay. So Molly Daniel joins us from P68. Molly, tell the people what P68 is real quick. Yeah. So we are a C3, C4 civic engagement organization. We basically work to engage as many really

news avoidant and sort of like all folks who feel like the system doesn't really work for them, like that audience of mainly black folks and at the age of 45. We try to get as many messengers as well as as much good information in front of them as possible so that they have more space to make decisions about their political ideals, how they see government working for them or not working for them, how to become engaged and also to get a better understanding of what's happening. We work really closely with states, but also have a really huge national lens to try to set more of the bellwether and fight against what the right has been doing for many years in the media space. And we have worked together.

I think we got hooked up through Matt Barnes. Yes. Good old Maddie with a good hair. Good old Matt with a good hair. Another friend of the biracial's, obviously, a part of our community. PCC8 is a biracial stronghold. I think that's important to note as we get further into this conversation. What's important to know?

Well, I mean, Molly, let me ask you this. Did Van offend you? Van has never offended me. Black one. But I know Van well enough. I know Van well enough to know where he's coming from, a good majority of the time, when he says things to me. And as Van also knows, I surround myself with people who do nothing,

but sort of like pick at me and we pick it, each other, so it's hard to offend us. And also, Van has asked me many questions and probably been more vulnerable and open with me about some of these questions than folks who I think want to ask questions and might feel like they're going to be offensive and are afraid to do. And so I've always been open to these conversations with Van, and he's never offended me, although I'm, you know, there's always the future. But I don't think we'll ever get there. I think we'll be okay.

So PCC8 is made up of Molly. it's good-looking Ray. Oh, yeah, he did say this about everyone's good-looking. It's a good-looking cartel of people. It's like, good-looking Ray, Melissa, Daryl, all of them together, all different flavors, right? They're biracial's there. And I have to say something.

My last biracial diatriad really set the community on fire. I understand why. All of the biraciales that I know reached out. good looking Ray reached out. Molly reached out. Tracy, by treasial, founding member of the BBI. I could tell she was none too pleased.

And another one of my friends reached out and sent me a long, long, long text message about the plight of the biracial person in America. Molly, what are your thoughts on what was said? You've come here today. curly hair as a weapon to represent the biracial community. What were your thoughts?

I just want to say a big thank you also to Rachel. I think I'm just really glad your voice was in that because I know that sometimes Van says things to sort of like, like I know he's baiting something and there's a point that's there also. And having a moment of saying, like, can we have somebody speak for themselves? I really appreciate.

Because there have been some other biracial folks that have spoken for themselves where I'm like, oh, wait a second. Like, how many voices do we need in the room to kind of talk about all of these different thoughts and, you know, how I'm always also interested in like how people do view, you know, different pieces of this. And so just the conversation of Zoe Kravitz and like, what does she identify of? Because both of her parents are biracial. where what kind of communities did her parents grow up in?

How did they like intentionally or maybe unintentionally raise her and how she does feel? I can have my own assumptions, which a good majority of the time, that's also part of my hope, which is that like you identify as all the things that you are and feel like you can and feel like you're welcome to be part of those communities. And also like everyone doesn't feel that way. So I just, I know that my opinion may be different because of my experience than, you know, somebody else that would speak on this subject, but I found it, I was cracking up while I was listening to it. And then I also sent it to some friends and, like, my brothers, and they were like,

what, who? Why is this even a conversation? But I think that some of us are really familiar with it because we're approached in it more often than others, depending on what we look like, where we are, etc. So happy to talk about it. And it wasn't, it wasn't that bad. I found it funny. I thought I knew some people were going to be pissed off too. You might have found it funny too because as you were sitting at the beginning, you know Van. And I think if it's someone who just takes, no, seriously, I think context is everything because if you just take that conversation alone

and you play it for someone else, I can see how someone's offended because the reason it was uncomfortable for me is because I, in order for Van and I to have this conversation, who we are not biracial, we have to have a lot of generalizations and assumptions. And that makes, or speculate, and that makes me uncomfortable when we could easily have someone like yourself, at least speak to your experience. You're right.

You're not a monolith. You're not all the same. It depends how you were raised. Some people say it depends. And we should say also we're talking white and black. That was another big issue that people had. Can I ask you a question? What generalizations did I make?

Well, one, you said that you talked about them not being biracial. Well, so that's not, so this is the deal. Everything, and this is important, because if people were offended, I don't, you guys know I don't give a fuck. First of all, I don't care. Keep going. And I should say, I should say, I should say this to everyone. And I really want people to, to hear me. I'm off the medication.

They know. So my brain is sweet. whirling around, all right? So, and let me tell you why I don't care in this particular situation. I am talking about a very specific thing. I'm not generalizing anything. I'm talking about people who are black with white parents who have chosen to call themselves something other than black.

But we had to, we had to establish that first because at first you weren't even doing black and white. You were just, you were assuming that. And so I was like, it's black and white where you're referring to. That's the first thing. Well, we didn't know. That's not true because the people that I were talking about.

about what's talking about were Zoe Kravitz and Lisa Bonnet and Lenny Kravitz. Well, the definition of biracial. Hold on. No. I started off talking about those people. Those people are biracial in that they have a black parent and a white parent. So what's talking

about. So what I was talking about is this. It's talking about, and I still think it's interesting. I think the use of the term biracial is interesting. Now, I understand people can call themselves whatever they want. It calls themselves wherever they like. And I support people's right to do that.

But I also have questions about why the term black isn't enough. I was hoping that Molly could maybe talk about that. I know that you've had questions about that too. But like it, why the term black isn't enough. Molly, when I say that, is that even a fair question to ask? I think that that actually is kind of a generalization in terms of like a question because I think black is enough. you might ask somebody else though

and they may feel very differently. I think just like for context my mother is a white woman from the South who's a self-proclaimed hippie that like moved to San Francisco and met my immigrant from Haiti father

on a cable car in like 76. They just they have this like little immigrant story, etc. My dad is a very proud Haitian. My real name is actually Marie Louise. I just go by Molly because my parents shouldn't have gotten married and they named me two different things. But that's fine.

They're okay now. So the real name is Marie Louise, but you go by Molly. My dad named me after my grandmother and my mom started calling me Molly after Molly bloomed from Ulysses. And so, or whatever that is worth, those are my names. Yeah. So I go by either one. But I'll just say, like, my dad spent a lot of time reminding us that we are, we were, we're black. Like, it doesn't matter how complex the things get.

Like, we are not even black Americans, obviously, but like Haitian Americans. Like, our blood comes from where he is from. The things his mother did are why we are alive and why we have the opportunities that we have. And, like, we are black in America, period. And so I think that, and my mom, like, like, I went to my own Halloween in third grade dresses like Maya Angelou. And my mom was like, tell everyone, you know, you know, why the cage bids things. And I was like, mom, nobody's going to get this.

Like, what are we doing? But, you know, like the whole point of my like nurturing, my growing up, even though I grew up in a very white place in Orange County, was to remind me that I was black and that that was great. And I could lean into it. I think that there are people who haven't had the same kind of experience and don't have the like encouragement and motivation or even the community to like understand how to see themselves in a black community, which is why it's a weird for them, weird thing for them to say. But I feel like I've even even growing up in Orange County, I moved to Brooklyn 14 years ago. And that was an eye-opening experience for me in a place where I felt really comfortable.

and then being back here in California, again, where I am is all of those experiences where different people accepted me in different ways. But I've always said that I was black. And if people would say, are you black? I'd say, well, I'm mixed. Like, I'm biracial. I have no problem saying I'm biracial as well. I also have no problem claiming that I have white women in me and can do white women things as well. Like, they are all pieces of who I am.

And to me, all of those things are enough. especially if I can represent them in the best ways possible to reflect on everyone else. Well, what would you say, though, because I can't remember if we touched on it here, but there are people who are biracial who say, well, I have a problem saying black because then I'm neglecting the white. I mean, I think that is like a thing that they have to figure out how to deal with. I don't have a problem sometimes leaving the white out. I think that I have different pieces to my identity,

just like any other person. And so if I'm speaking from like, point of view of being a woman, point of you being a mom, point of you being black, point of view, it's hard for me sometimes to just share a white experience because most of society sees me as black, even, I mean, more often my hair is curlier in braids versus when it is

like straightened and people are, I just seem ambiguous to some folks, which is like fine too and just kind of part of my experience. But I know. But it is, I think that for those people who don't want to just be called black, like that's something that they have to figure out why it is they don't want to be called that.

And if it's because they really don't want to forget that white side of them. I think that it's probably just due to, like, experience and the connectivity that they still have that community. I still have many white friends. My mother's a white woman. I, like I said, have white women tendencies as well. I believe in white people, most of them. And so I just, I think my relationship is probably a little bit different with the rest of my communities and the way that I feel like I can represent them versus how some other folks may feel like they're leaving that stuff out. I believe in white people.

So this is what we're doing. We're going to start making quotes for the guess. I believe in white people, Molly Dan. Sometimes, yes. Would you ever identify as white? Would you just say I'm white? Yeah. So you can say that, hey, I'm white.

I'm a white woman. Yeah, I absolutely think I can say that. Like I said, I grew up in Orange County around a lot of white people. my mother is a white woman. I have white family members. You remember when you met my cousin in North Carolina, man? She came up, yeah, and she, one of my white cousins, and Van, he just sat there and lifted us for a while, like, that's really your cousin.

And I was like. It's a funny thing. It's always been a funny thing to me. I said this back in the day. To me, when I was growing up, cousin was a name for a black person in your family. That's what it was a name for. It had nothing to do. That was, cousin was black.

Everybody was cousins or play cousins or whatever. Remember I had, I have a family member. He's half white. His cousins are coming to pick him up. It was like his cousins. I'm expecting it to be a black person and it's a white dude. And I'm like, oh shit. Really, these are his cousins.

That's your cousin. That's crazy to me. You've never seen the social media thing where they say white people never refer to their cousins as cousins. I think maybe that also plays it to it. They always say, you say, I'm going to my cousin's house. They say, this is Eric, or I'm going to Dan's house. And they never say, they'll say, that's my mother's brother's son. Yeah.

Which is interesting, because I do refer to, like, she is my cousin. Like, that's my mother's younger sister's daughter. That's my cousin, Stevie. I don't refer to anybody else with cousins unless I, like, as I have been able to be more part, like, let's say just like post 18 years old Molly, being able to, like, figure out how to put myself in spaces that had more black people because it wasn't what I was just around. Like, like, my brother, like, oh, that's my sis, like those kinds of things. But I didn't grow up with, again, just like my dad is an immigrant versus him growing up and being like a black American.

Like, I didn't grow up calling everyone my cousin. I didn't have a lot of uncles, but everybody he wasn't my cousin, specifically not white people. That's not a thing. So here's a deal. It's interesting conversation. I would like to have conversations with all parts of the diaspora. And you actually have an interesting background

because, you know, it's immigrant, it's biracial, it's all of the things. Very American story right there, like a little Obama or something like that. I don't know. These are two things that are interesting to me. One is, I aspire to be a humanist.

I aspire to be someone who, helps people assert their humanity and I aspired to be an advocate for their safety, people whoever they are, right? But my, the way I see the world is oriented around the condition of black people. I said this before. It's very distinct because growing up in Louisiana, the first questions I asked weren't questions about, it wasn't like, oh, look at the sky, look at the sun. Like, why do the stars like twinkle? Like, why is there oxygen? Why is it? That's not, those aren't the first

questions I asked. The first questions that I was asking was why do we have this and they have that? And it used to knock the older people on their ass because they really couldn't I would be at Big Papa's house and we would be around and I would see all my cousins and we were having fun. We were doing all of this stuff

and having all that stuff and then I would go, we'd go across Marion or to somewhere else and these guys would have talked about this before. The dude would have an electric fence to keep his horses. I touched the electric fence, got shocked. And then I would look at their house and all of their stuff. I'll be like, yo, what's the difference?

Like, why? I like what we have, but why is what, does what they have so different? Why can they tell us where to fish? We used to go fish and then somebody would roll up and be like, who do you know? And we'll be like, oh, we know huddle. We know hutch. We know whomever. They said we could fish here.

Why don't we have some place where We could fish. Like all these questions I would ask. And then the answer was given to me in this sublime simplistic truth because we're black. That was the answer. This is why things are the way they are. Because we're black. Well, what does that mean? What does we, us being black having to have to do with the fact that every time we hunt, the game war and comes up to us, every time we go somewhere people may try to make sure we're there. Every time I go somewhere in Baton Rouge, what does that mean? What does, because

we're black, what does black mean? And I then around with the people, the older people in my life, my mother, my grandmother, everyone, I investigate my blackness. I'm in the gifted program. And in the gifted program, it's all white kids in a program.

And every single time they're trying to have a good time, I'm telling them you only have that because you're white. You only have that because you're white. You only have that because you're white. You only have that because you're white. You only have that because you're white. And blackness becomes like, to me, not just a flex, but a weapon. And everybody that's around me that's black, don't matter who it is, they're a part of it. No matter if they want to be or not, they're a part

of it. Everyone's a part of it. Don't matter. They're a part of it. They're a part of the whole thing. Everybody's a part of it. Then I get older and I step outside of Louisiana and I start noticing that it's some people that don't want to be a part of that. There's some people that don't want to be a part of that. There's some people that I'm just being for real It's some people that really, really love their proximity to whiteness. That's true. And I'm not saying that that's biracial people, but I'm saying there's some black people that are like that.

That they love their proximity to whiteness. They love it. Like they really get into it. And so for a part of my life, I have investigated black people who for some reason love their proximity to whiteness. Wherever that is, however that is, we've had black people on this podcast

whose skin is darker than mine, but love the fact that they can talk, be around with, sit with, and commiserate with white people. And so if the question is, if there are a whole group of black people who for some reason want to be closer to white people,

people because proximity to whiteness in this world means that they're not going to ask you where you could fish, that they're not going to ask you where you can hunt. They're not going to come, you're going to have a nice proximity to whiteness is everything, right? So it was just my question was basically, is this thing a more specific and personal identification of who and what you are, which I have no saying? Or is this kind of not wanting to be black? And if it is, I'm sorry. As a black man, I have a say in that.

Like, I have a say, I think I can have an opinion about people who kind of sort of don't want to be black. And this is not biracial people as a group or, but the term itself is, you black. You're black. You would never say that you're white. You can say that you're white all you want, Molly. You're not white. You're black. You're black.

I'm glad to hear. I'm glad to hear you say that out loud because like a week ago on your show, you said, and I got messages about it, then there's Molly who says that she's black and then you went on about here. Call him out, Molly. Yeah, but what I'm saying is, in Louisiana, you see people and you go, I'll tell you something, like Aaron Honoreray. I'll name of my name.

People used to be in class, it would be like, Aaron Honoreray, the white boys would be, they'd be looking at Aaron Honoreray, and they would be looking at her, and they'd be like, Aaron, it's so good. I was like, y'all,

y'all, you know that's a black woman, right? No, she's not, no, she's not, no, she's, I'm like,

she's black, she's black, she's black person. Go ahead, Molly. Yeah, so there, just to, like,

answer, kind of, like, around what you're saying. So I think, like, we have to remember that, like, biracial people in general were kind of,

I think, sort of a, like, we were talked about, but in a way that was like, there's, like, one droq, and mulatto and like all of the different things that they would like classify as as like pre-leaving virginia kind of thing and loving virginia was like 50 years ago when black and white people were even allowed to get married and like you were going to start recognizing the children and everybody who came out of those situations. I don't think not at all that this is the same thing, but like we think about how people of different identities come out over the last 50, 40, 30 years and how people have struggled to accept them and understand who they are or where. they really, where they really live in their community. And I think that that is, like, those are

similar things. And there just takes time for people to get to understand and know those things. I also think that the general sort of like community vibe and like knowing that we are black is that like the outside world wants to control us. And so from everything from like, you're not allowed to fish where you want to go fish to like how I'm going to be compared with to my white coworkers when I'm in a situation and I'm going to be like probably the lazy one from their from their eyes versus like how everybody else is working like no matter what the rest of the world continues to see us as black and there's like a control that we all experience of people wanting to tell us what to do and how to move now I think that there are more people more

recently and like you know not to say again about like folks all anybody out but like you guys had a guest, you know, almost a year ago, where I think when she came on, we all kind of had this moment where we were like, dang, does this lady, does she like the black signing herself? Like, or does... Anna Marie. Anna Marie. Clearly.

Very much so Anna Marie. Let's see what the fucking talking about? Like, but I, and I, but I think, but I, and that is her right to exist like that and to have the experiences that she's had and maybe not feel like she's been controlled or maybe like not like the fact that she was controlled so she's

trying to identify in this other way and say that like she's not going to be the victim. She's not going to be all these things that white folks are telling her are like the actual problems with black people. And that's why she's not going to identify with black people either. And so I do think there's a deeper like sort of personal thing that a lot of people go through, whatever, whatever color skin they're coming through, it's really more based on their experience. And I think, and I think I remember if she's adopted, like she didn't grow up with a black or

white parent, like how she's supposed to completely understand and identify these things and know who she is and know where she fits in. I think it's probably a journey for her like it has been for a lot of us. And so, I just want to answer that. I know I cut you off, Rachel. I'm sorry. No, no, no. I wanted you to, I wanted you to

speak on it. She does, she does say she's a black woman now. But, but that's good. I wanted, I, I know I wanted you to have your moment to speak on it. I think what differs, where we differ is, you'll say, you're biracial, you're black.

You're black. And I leave space where I'm like, listen, you want to call yourself, if you're by, not call yourself, you're biracial, and if you don't want to say you're black or you want to say whatever, that's on you. But I personally feel a certain way if you don't want to accept that or call yourself black. To me, I have a, and I said that on the last podcast, I feel offended. And the question is, am I wrong for, that because I'm not going to tell you, I'm not going to say you're black.

I'm going to allow you to call yourself whatever you want to call yourself. But I feel like you are othering yourself. Hold on. Before she answers. Before she answers. Molly, shout out to you. I love these type of conversations. Before she answers. Do you understand how that's a cop-out? No, I don't think it's a cop. Do you think what I'm saying is a cop-out? Who's coping out? So, Rachel's talking, I am. So wait a second. Wait a second. You don't, listen to what was just said.

you don't want to force somebody to identify in a specific way. But if they don't identify in that specific way, you're mad at them. You're offended. I feel like you, but that's not a cop out. I'm literally saying exactly what it is. I'm not copying out for anything. It's a cop. Wait, wait, wait.

I'm not going to tell somebody who they are. I know, I know. But if they don't identify in the way that you think that they should, you're offended. Like you're, you don't, what you don't just, this kind of thing. You don't want to say the thing. The thing is, you're a. black person and that's the thing. If you don't, maybe you're not. How about this? I'll do something I've never did on this podcast before. Put it, put it lower. Van could be wrong. Or maybe Van is wrong.

Okay. But I'll just tell you the way my ignorant Southern nigger mind thought that we were safer all together. That's the way my ignorant, dumb, black nigger, southern mind thought. that we were safer when we were singing together, when we were hunting together, we were making love to each other, when we were making communities together, that we were safer together. We were safer together.

Black, umbrella term. Don't even matter, really. Black from Africa, black, black, black, black, black, black. We were safer all together, that we were safer together. And now we're like potentially poking, intentionally like poking, we're poking at it. Because of... We're scratching that.

We're scratching that. I used to read the smooth magazines back in the day. And I would see this beautiful black lady. And she would say, they would say, what's your ethnicity? And she would say, well, I'm black, Irish, Chinese. But I'll be like, what the fuck? Are you talking about black woman? Like, you're a black lady.

I'm black. How about that? But again, this is not a cop-out. I'm just not going to tell people to not say what all they're made up of. But then you're going to be mad if they don't do it the way you want them to do it. Well, if you refuse to recognize blackness, I guess, I guess that's, I guess that's what I'm saying. But I'm going to feel like, I think it's kind of, and we're going to talk about this later on the show, and I really want you to speak to this, Molly. We're going to talk about Tila and the fact that how she identified herself.

We're going to talk about that later on the show. Well, let's just talk about it with Molly since we got it. Yeah, yeah. I want her to answer the question first about like the way I feel about it and am I wrong for that. And then we can go into the Tila of it and black Americans response to how she identified herself. Yeah, so I think that something that has made me feel more and more comfortable being able to, like, say and know and like represent myself as a black woman as the acceptance specifically of other black women. And like, you know, I was I was on the board of a, the Black Women's Democratic Club in Los Angeles County for like five years. And that experience in itself.

and I've been part of many different things, but like walking into a room and having people see you and look at you and be like, oh, you look like my cousin or you look like my aunt from Louisiana or whatever and like know that I'm black and accept me and already have familiarity with my, who I am and how I have to move through the world.

Like all of those different things I think help me feel like I can even more say I'm part of the community. Like I'm seen by the people who are part of the community. So I do think that, and I also think that you're right to be able to say to someone like, well, how do you want to be referred to as, and they should be able to tell you how they want to be referred to as. And it's important as a humanist myself to respect how people want to be referred to as and like what they do identify as. That being said, you don't have to be offended, Rachel, but I sometimes myself am offended from that space of like, well, why can't you call

yourself black though? Like, what's wrong with being identified with the rest of like all of us with diaspora of America and like where all of us come from and we every experience is not the same and being black doesn't mean you have to be one specific thing and so what is what is wrong with identifying as black but that's also why I don't have a problem with identifying as white too like there are I know I will more than likely identify as a black woman because of the society all the things that we talked about and people who don't want to identify with being black or I think sometimes lean into the like not to like woes me and like I know the privilege that I move in like with the color of my skin and like growing up where I did and having the accessibility of the things that I did

but like I don't there's a like a fetishism a little bit still that exists with like biracial and mixed people from like the rest of the outward world and sometimes I think people lean into that which is also kind of weird to me. But I don't think that that is why most people prefer to identify as biracial. I disagree. That is where this is coming from. I think there are more biracial people

outwardly now talking about it. So it does feel like a group that people can also identify with because of common experiences. But I do think there's like, they're just really weird undertones to a lot of those stuff sometimes, including like people wanting to make mixed babies

because they're cuter, but you're like, all of this is a part of the conversation that we're having. What you're talking about, all of this is a part of the conversation in which you have. This is a societal trend that's been going on for all of what you're talking about is a part of what's happening. When we are, the beauty standard is, the beauty standard has all, the beauty standard in particular has always been about being a little bit white or being closer to white or having white looking feature. proximity to whiteness. Obama and Kamala. Both of them. Black people. Black people. However, however, they are mixed. They are biracial. And people think that doesn't matter,

but it absolutely does. My father, God rest his soul. Obama becomes president and my dad goes, son, that's a black man. That man is black. That's black. He's definitely black. He's a black, black man. Capital be black. He said, but I tell you something, he goes, when a nigger named Larry Jenkins Jr., whose roots are in Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia, Texas, Florida, someplace like that, whose ancestors were enslaved people here, he goes, when that nigger becomes the president, that's different. And I'm not telling you that the guy, because I was going crazy with Obama, I was about to get on Obama tattoo, is, is, is, I was going crazy.

Do you even have tattoos? I still can. What? Do you have any tattoos? I don't. But I was really thinking about getting my first one. It was going to be the dick ride of the century. And I'm like, my dad goes, I'm not telling you that the man you're celebrating isn't black.

He's like, that's a black man. He's got a beautiful black family. And it's, but he goes, there is something different about us, about the people that you belong to, about the people from here and there and there. There's something different about us. They legitimately want a world where we don't get to talk. And so he was like, keep pushing. Keep pushing till it's you up there or till it's one of your home. Till it's Ted up there.

To what like, my dad really liked Ted James. He did. I like that, Ted. But keep pushing till it's one of you guys, because that means that we've reconciled. And so the entire time we're having all of these conversations, I'm like, huh, okay, are we losing the, are we losing the power of the message or the unity of community in like, sectoring each other off?

Even with the whole, with the, whatever, man, I don't want to drone on because we got to go pretty soon. But I'm just saying to me, there's a there there. Even with what you're saying about, oh my God, I want a mix baby. The beauty standard is going. It's always kind of the beauty standard that's being re sort of adopted here is a biracial beauty standard that's further away. But Molly brought up a really good point that we have not talked about that I think is missing from this conversation. And you kind of touched on it when you talked about wanting to have mixed babies or the way that even black people will other.

by racial people. That's an important part of the conversation where that's sometimes black, the black community is a problem when it comes to that because something you said, when you said being accepted by black women made you feel or like you could talk about your blackness in another way. I think that there, how many times growing up, or maybe you didn't because it was California, San Francisco, were you othered and called, oh, you're a white girl, oh, you're not black enough, all those certain things. And that's something that's missing from this conversation that we haven't necessarily talked about. So if you're growing up with that, how do you take pride when some people, people, you want to be called black? You're smiling at me, but this is a real,

Molly, come on. I'm so glad Molly's here. I think about Ebony, because Ebony used to be called, I used to call Ebony Light Bright, almost white. So that's what I'm saying. That's a real thing where I can see why. Ebony's light skin and shit. You might want to be, I'm black. I'm at home. I'm being told I'm black, but then I step out and you're telling me how not black. black I am. That's something that we do within our own community to biracial people. Yeah, I think I got a lot. I did, I grew up in Orange County, California. So I like, I remember like the 92 riots happening. And like my dad, my dad's a physician. He worked in South Central. He's like a fluent Spanish speaker. So he worked in South Central most of my life.

And I remember him like coming home at being a whole big thing. And then I remember going to My mom coming to pick me up from a friend's house. And my mom told me this story years later because I never got to be friends with this girl again. But my mom said when she went to pick me up from that house, that the girl's dad was in his garage, was in Huntington Beach, California, and his garage cleaning his guns. And when she walked up, she was like, what are you doing?

And he was like, oh, you know, getting ready for if they come down here. And his response was, well, my mom said, you know, what if my husband comes to pick her up? like that's a black man that like could roll into the neighborhood. Like what are you? And the response was, well, he drives a nice car. You guys aren't black like that. Like we're not, we're not those kinds of blacks.

As well as like, you know, being in school and white kids telling me that like, you're just kind of white. Like you're just like us. Like, yeah, we're all just alike. Like that doesn't mean that I'm not black. It doesn't mean that I'm just white. It means that like we're all people and we're all kids. And like you all are familiar with another. piece of who I am, so it's hard for you to identify it. And I think the same thing can happen

with black folks. And so, like, when I first moved to, when I lived in New York, I worked at Harlem Children's Zone. And the kids, that was the first time I'd heard the term light bright, because the, like, deans at the school were calling me and some of the kids that. And the kids would call me white woman. They'd be like, I was an advocate. They'd be like, all right, white woman, like, we can come sit down and talk about this stuff now. And then after a couple of months, they started calling me Alicia Keynes and some other stuff and Mike decided to accept that I was also black. High racial.

Representation. So this while, okay, so this while I'll say, we got to get out of here, but this is what I'll say, all right, this is a thing. Look, white supremacy runs through the center of black culture. There are some people who believe that the establishment of black American culture is a response to white supremacy. It's a survival mechanism. don't believe in that. I think that there was a ridiculous amount of what we were able to

blend of ourselves with the new land that we were in, and then boom, this amazing culture being a black American comes about. But there are things, obvious things. So the use of the N word, obvious thing. Some of the dynamics in the way we view people of lighter skin or darkest thing, obvious thing, obvious thing. The straightening of women's hair, of our women's hair, obvious thing. All of these things, these are obvious things. These are obvious things that are oriented around a Eurocentric focus. So when we play and we joke, we joke about these things.

And as we have evolved as a community, we've tried to learn the language to call this out when we see it. We've tried to learn the language of both calling out the privilege that liar skin people might have, but also remembering that it wasn't their choice to be born lighter skin. So when there is a lighter skin woman, a lighter skin black woman that is saying, hey, I got fuck with all the time. She's not lying. Now, it doesn't make any sense to be like, oh, my God, you have so much privilege that your, your experience doesn't matter if you're inside of the black community.

We have to sit down and have conversations amongst ourselves about what we expect of one another, which is why I don't ever mind really talking to black conservatives as long as I don't think that they have anti-black actual ideas, which a lot of them kind of have to do because in order to be accepted into conservative circles, you have to vote on, be about, and push so much stuff that is anti-black. But if you are, I know a couple of brothers that I would consider to be conservative because they're religious, some of them are Muslims. Some of them are brothers in the nation, right, that are conservative.

because that religion denotes that. That set of values denotes that. I have a problem talking to them and talking to them about why they're wrong on certain issues, right? Because we're all together. But it starts with being altogether. The teasing, my black is better.

All of those conversations, we're supposed to have those conversations so that the culture gets stronger, so that we get stronger so that we have a better understanding of each other. We're supposed to have conversation. You and I have two different backgrounds, right? We're supposed to have a conversation

about otherness. We're supposed to have a conversation about sameness. We're supposed to have conversations that actually put us in silos, but also have conversations that also bring us together. But we can only have them if the fundamental governing operation of that is that we are all black. Because if you are not black, I do not feel safe having a cultural conversation with you. I will have many different cultural conversations with you with non-black people. But in those conversations, my guard is up. If I'm having a racial or cultural conversation with someone non-black,

my guard is up. My guard is up because there is no way you cannot be this and then have, in my opinion, the correct outlook, the right set of values and opinions regarding black people because America lies to you about black people so much. The only way you can really have an accurate understanding of blackness is to experience it. That is it. Because if you reading it, if you're watching it on TV, if you're getting it from the movies,

you're getting a corporatized version of who we are and that version of who we are just is not real. So when I say, hey, yo, we all black, I'm willing, and we're all different black, like we're all a different group, but I'm willing to teach courses in it. I'm willing to be like, hey, man, you ain't never, you know, a lot of the brothers that came to Southern,

like, I've never seen, what is she, how she's shaking her ass like that? Like, my brother, that's called popping it. That's what we do when juvenile comes on, man, but come on, come get some of this.

I know you from the high planes. She ain't never seen nothing like that before. Don't worry about that, man. That's our fee. She'll take care of you. You like that. Not like that. I fee is my home girl,

but like she, she, that's what she does. So I'm saying it's like, I'm willing to do all of that as long as I feel safe and I feel safe in my community I feel safe with my community I feel safe with my people I will argue with my people I will have disagreements with my people I will fight with my people I will do all of that stuff

but I always will have deference love and respect for them unless you're a black person that don't want to be black if you're a black person that don't want to be black I don't care what their fucking skin tone is you are the worst of the fucking worst to me and and it's not changing and I'm not talking about biracial people I'm talking about black people who distance themselves from their blackness in order to gain proximity to whiteness. And if you, and that's the reason why we were having a biracial thing.

I'm not saying that biracial people are that. I'm not saying that at all double, triple, quadrupled down on that. I'm just saying, I wonder why they don't just want to be black. And I think that I understand now, truce with the biracial people. Truce with B-16. We got to, we are the truce with the biracial. A truce. I would love to see you do that on Twitter

and everybody else that thinks that they can figure out what everyone is but like we need more of you guys definitely on our site. Truth. Hey, truth with the, yeah, truth with,

give it some time, no, no, no, no, no. No, but you know what I don't want to hear? A story's going to come out. Hey, hey, hey, but you know what I don't want to hear, I don't want to hear specific criticisms about Drake. I want you guys to all like be understanding of the struggle and all of that stuff

because y'all what y'all do is y'all see here when i say something plainly y'all y'all go oh my god van such a fucking caveman and i'll be that that's fine but then the criticisms that people have of drake they're really criticizing his cultural authenticity and people always bring up the fact that his mom was white and he grew up in toronto and it's a certain type of experience what you're saying is that he's not black enough and that he's cosplay as a black man in order to connect to something you're actually saying all of these like right out of the handbook of the tragic mulatto. And then if I say, oh, let's have a conversation about,

oh my God, you can't do that. You say it all the time. You do it all the time. Y'all did it to Anna Marie a second ago. You do it all the time. You do it. So what I'm saying is, to be patient with everyone. It's the whole deal.

It's fine. I love everyone. Okay. Molly, the next time I see you, we'll eat no hot sauce for you. Because I got to make sure that your white side is respected. Save my name. appreciate that. I feel, so yes, and Rachel, you should come eat too.

Also, would love that. I do think you're saying something plainly, but I think just to put it in other terms, too, is like you're interested in these spaces with folks who are not in the sunken place. I think, like, race is a social construct also in general, but it just makes people feel more comfortable and discussing stuff.

But, like, yes, being comfortable in community, folks who want to identify all the things, I'm always down to have a conversation, I got to have it when I'm at the grocery store anyways with a white person who wants to walk up to me and ask me a bunch of questions and shit. Like this is the regular life of a biracial if I was ever to say what life is like.

And so I'm down to help having conversations and pave the way for all the new little mixed babies who are coming in and her parents that aren't ready for it sometimes also. Thank you. We appreciate a voice, a biracial voice on the show. Thank you so much for being the one. to come on to talk.

I appreciate you guys too. Molly, thank you. I appreciate all the work that PCCA does and how you guys like really educate people. We went to the, we were in Miami a couple of years ago.

It was last year. That was two years ago. Two years ago. They had the little, the donors conference, the little thing. And it's like, it's so interesting

just being around people that their whole life is politics because like they are really into politics. Nerds. Just, nerds. Like nerds. Like they don't like people are there and their entire life is one ballot initiative.

And it's just interesting to be around. I suggest that everyone that has a microphone that is talking about politics actually go to one of these things because you're up here giving your opinion on something. You're lightly, mildly, barely informed opinion about something. And there's somebody whose entire life, their whole life is about ballot. no ballot measure number 63 and they've been working on it for four years and they're doing the whole

and you're talking about it and you're inadvertently undermining the work, so much work from so many people with the shit you don't fucking know what you're talking about and a lot of them were white. Yeah, they are. Let me know if you ever you know if you ever want to talk to any of those nerds

they're my people happy to bring them on and bring their life's work to fruition on higher learning. So Thank you. All right. Thanks for being here. No, we would love that. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7-736. to learn more or visit trimfire radio.com. A girl wore a KKK shirt. Did you see this video? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now, the girl wore a KKK shirt. The KKK shirt was a shirt.

Her name is prettiest underscore real underscore one. She wore a custom shirt with a KKK member, a person in the hood and rope, being hung. I like a tie with like the Confederators. flag signs. She was being hung. The KKK person is being hung. And a white American

told her that this shirt was racist. Your shirt's pretty fucking racist, by the way. Are you a plan member? No. Then why would you be offended? Because it's just offensive. To who?

To other people. Clan members That makes sense That's one of the most fascinating things I've ever said before my life Okay, why Why? You don't find that to be fascinating? I find it to be racist

Which is so... I mean, not that racism ever stopped existing, it's just so overt that I saw that And I'm like, that tracks. It was, why do you find it as one of the most interesting things that you say? A racist person was offended by it.

Question to Rach. When you say something about black men, why do I get offended? You are a black man. Right. The thing that fascinated me about it was that the Ku Klutz Klan is a very, specific organization. It's a specific organization that engages

in terrorism against black people. It's not broad. Culturally. It's very specific. There's an intake. There's a set of membership

requirements. They're chapters. being a black man is a lot of things all in it. So when you say something as encompassing as black man, not just, not to bring you something, whatever, then I'm going to be like,

hey, I'm in that group. The Ku Klutz Klan is a group that not a lot of people are in. However, the hanging of a clans member, of a murderer, of a person that endorses murder,

of a person that gets into the violentest parts of who we are, offended a random white person. That's so fundamental if, in fact, this person is not in the clan, which they very well could be. But if this person is not in the clan, that is a deep cultural interrogation into white people's understanding of white supremacy. Is it a thing to where attacking white supremacy?

supremacy directly, attacking white supremacy directly is looked at as an attack on the average white person. Is there, like, which, which I don't know for her, it must be, she's a racist. But is there a thing? But once again, she could be. She might be. She very well might be. But the question is, to me, how many people would have been offended at that shirt?

How many people would look at that shirt and have brutal consequences meet it out against brutal people who happen to be white? How many people would be upset or mad about that? That's interesting because that is the way that, the way I look at it, I go, okay, you're for anti-blackness, you're for whatever, I mean, you're for, you're for, you're against anti-blackness, whatever. Are you cool with me wearing a shirt that depicts my murderer getting murdered?

Okay, so I, everything you're saying is right. I don't, the reason I'm like, so like whatever and I don't look at it as that deep because that woman is a racist. For you to look at the KKK, for all the reasons that you said, that is exactly what the KKK stands for represents. It's very logical. You're applying logic to a racist. I think that woman, for that woman, it, it would be this, if that girl, was wearing a shirt of somebody draped in a Confederate flag and they were being hanged, right? That white supremacy is directly linked to the Confederate flag, right?

But there are a lot of people who revere it. Maybe it's not seen as offensive as the KKK, but it is linked to white supremacy. It is linked to being very detrimental, and that's a nice word, towards black people. if you have a problem with it as a white person, you are a racist. If you can't see that ending something that is terrorism, that is racist, that somebody who's a murderer saying, ending that type of thinking, those type of people, all of that is you have a problem with that or you're offended by that. You are a racist. That is very particular to me. So when I saw this clip and this girl's posting it, black woman wearing this shirt, white woman,

tells her it's offensive. I'm like, okay, she's a racist. To me, everything you just said, I understand. To me, that's like, that's not a consideration. The only reason why it's not a consideration is two things. Number one, the reputation of the Confederacy has been very directly laundered. The reputation of the KKK hasn't been. The Confederacy, people have been able to take that, use loss cause ideology and wrap it up in heritage and then serve it to people worldwide. The KKK has to, hasn't been. To me, and it's smart something in my brain, sure. Simple answer, the woman's a racist. Fine. Don't have to. Simple answer. There's something else there. What I wonder is how many

white people that would make uncomfortable. Because it there, I would venture to believe that that would make more white people uncomfortable than you would think that it would. So, so, so, I would venture to believe that more white people looking at the image of a Klansman being hanged would be uncomfortable with it than you would think. And it's because they know that the Klansman is white. Exactly. And so because they know that the Klansman is white, they don't exist in a present or a history where you're supposed to do harm to white people,

no matter what they've done. They don't exist in a world where particularly if those white people's crimes come at the expense of black people. You're not just supposed to be able to hang a clans member. You're not supposed to be able to do violence to the people doing violence. It's kind of the same reason why they smack the shit out of you and then go, you are a thug if you smack them back or after you kill a man on television, you're the thug if you go burn some shit down, right?

Because the fundamental understanding of that woman in that video to me is that she's supposed to be safe. and if one white person is not safe, no matter how fucking abhorrent their crimes are, then all white people aren't safe. See, because we can't have black people around here doing violence to white people who've done violence to them because that throws the entire American arrangement out of the window. So when I saw her, she said that shirt's pretty fucking racist

and the reason why she's saying that is not because a clans member is being lynched, but because a white man is being lynched. She saw her. in that person. So that to me is really interesting. I wonder how many people would be, it's across the board understood that the clan is evil by most regular thinking people.

But how many people would be okay with them being evil done to them? Even if you are one of the most evil organizations in the history of the United States of America, are people okay with your? you pain with your life or getting a chunk taken out of your ass for that. And that to me

was really interesting. The sister handled it perfectly too. But I, you know, the woman is a racist, no doubt. But it was one of,

I had a windy moment. I was like, hmm. I just, I took a, I was like, hmm, hmm,

all right, that's enough. Take thing caps off. Do not stop learning on Van Lathan, Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Listen, last thing I'll say, Rachel, I want to thank you.

I don't know why I don't like where this is going. I want to thank you because I feel like this real schism between me and the biracial community would have lasted longer. It would have gone into maybe the first biracial civil war. Maybe it would have gone into, I had people hit me up calling me biracial. because of an ancestry.com debacle that I was subjected to. So, but it was because a lot of people pointed out when they hit me up on this, they were like, you know,

look at how uncomfortable racial looked because you were very uncomfortable, even though you had did the same thing. I'm not just uncomfortable. I'm like exhausted by it. Like, we're still talking about it. You're ending the podcast on it. Yeah, it hasn't ended.

Donnie can't stand it either. It's over. It's over. We're already supposed to be done. It is, I am, I like, I'm about to pull out my hair. I've had enough. You're going to make me dislike by racial people, which is probably your goal anyway. It's not my goal.

Hey, but look, but you guys have to understand my brain, I don't get exhausted by nothing. Like, my brain, I don't get exhausted. I have no mental exhaustion. Like, even Donnie's tapping in. See? I know. I know. And we have an audience to consider, too.

We get it. You need to work that out. You need to go talk to somebody. I don't be honest with you. I love the audience, but at the same time, I say, I can't let the audience control me because the audience is too all over the place. Okay.

The audience, the audience will be like, we're trying to control you, but like, we're tired. That's it about the barricians, but the audience, like, I don't want people to be homeless, and the audience will be like, fuck you, man. So after the squatter thing, I stopped caring about what the audience thought. He didn't care about y'all long before.

No, that's not true. I love the audience. I love everybody that folks with how I don't know. I can't believe the squatters is what took you over the, No, man. How many people were in your DM? After the landlord lovers were like, yo,

van, housing is not a basic human right? I was like, man, fuck it. I was like, I can't deal with it. We got to deal with it.

Then we started getting, I can't deal with it. So I love y'all. Housing is a basic human right. Shout out to Molly. I'm going to start calling Molly where our father named it. Mary Louise? Mary Louise,

man. That's the name my favorite cousin. Yeah. All right, y'all. We're out. I don't know.