Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Latest in NASCAR's Noose Incident Shows We Have a Long Way to Go

Episode Date: June 26, 2020

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay address the recent New York Times piece about The Ringer (5:04), the latest on the incident involving the noose found in Bubba Wallace's garage (14:05), what to make of the Justice in Policing Act (34:29), Russell Simmons being on Tidal’s Black Lives Matter panel (46:29), and removing historic statues (1:01:08) before presenting their Unexpected Allies of the Week (1:16:59). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions applies. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Welcome to higher learning thought warriors. Please put your thing caps on. It's Van Lathen. It's Rachel Lindsay.

Now, listen, before we get started, we have two things to get into before we get started. Two things. One, they're both incredibly serious, incredibly serious. But the first one is, I need all the thought warriors out there to really rally around Rachel, Big Rach, my sister, and hugs right now. because Rachel just, she just had a child's worst nightmare come true. A middle child's worst nightmare. A middle child.

Damn, this is what you always thought was the case. Like, your parents just told you that they don't want you. And it's so sad. Like, your parents don't want you, Rachel. We love you here. The thought words love you. One. We're going to have, we're going to stop having pre talks before we get on this

podcast. we're just going to get right into it. Because somehow you always love to flip what I say and turn it into something else. I'm going to get two. I'm going to give an explanation behind it. I was supposed to go see my family in Texas this weekend. I live in Florida. As you know, if you watch the news, it's the new epicenter of the coronavirus.

My family is a little bit apprehensive about me coming home and flying on a plane knowing that cases are up so much in Florida. That's all. And being the good child that I am and wanting to be considerate of how my family feels, I said, you know what, fam, that's okay. We'll try again later. Let's keep it a buck. It hurt a little bit. You cried a little bit.

Let's keep it a buck. It hurt a little bit. Man, I'm still a little sensitive. I might shed a tear right now. Wow. You know what? In all seriousness, though, like, I applaud your family for being so responsible. number one, I applaud them for being responsible, very responsible people, taking their health very seriously, taking the health of the community very seriously.

And I also applaud them for knowing you because they know you out here in these streets. No, I'm actually not. And I think that that's what's frustrating is when you're following the rules and you're doing it right, all I want to do is see my family. I haven't seen them all year. And I can't see them because other people. Other knuckleheads are out here while and out. I went to South Beach the other day, okay? Not to party because I had to go pick something up.

South Beach was packed. We got people coming in, just out in the streets at the restaurants, no mask walking down the street. That's the reason that I can't go see my family. So I'm mad. I'm being a rule follower. I'm trying to do the right thing. And people are out here having a good old time,

just spreading coronavirus. Do you know we've had back-to-back cases? 5,000 a day back to back of new cases of corona. 27 positivity rate. So that means one in four people, at least going in to get tested. One of them, one out of the four has it. That's how wild it is out here. Y'all have back-to-back championship days of corona.

Y'all basically like the warriors of corona. Y'all going to, y'all didn't go on back to back with Corona championships. And by the way, I'll tell you something. I'm going to be real with you. I applaud your bravery for even going down to South Beach knowing how popping it was down there. I didn't know. I didn't know. That's how indoors I am.

I had no idea. Are you worried that you might have contracted secondhand corona? No. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, what did you do? I mean, you have to tell us what. No, I went to go get a rental car. You went to go get a rental car.

Did you disinfect the car before you got in? They did. Did you watch them? No, but he was a brother, so I trust. There you go. Such a good response. You know what I mean? I was like, okay, you know, because he was kind of like, I got you my sister.

You know what he probably did? He probably was going to give you a different car. But when he saw it was you, he gave you the car. He disinfected. Hold on one second. Hey, hey, hey, hey, don't, hey, dog, don't give him the maximum. Bro, seriously, don't give it a maximum, bro. Seriously, don't give it a maximum, bro.

She need the key of soul. I did it get the Cadillac. Oh, you got the cat. Oh, you know, that's disinfected. If that's the first car, the brother going to disinfected. they're going to disaffect all the Cadillacs and all the Seabrings. They still have the Seabring. Do you remember the Chrysler Seabring?

I used to want one back in the day. So bad! In high school? Oh, I wanted one. Or I look for the boy who was driving the Seabring. Yeah, well, I can't, you know, I'm not, I didn't look for the boy that was driving the Seabring. But yeah, I could like, sea bring was crazy.

Now, now, before we get into this podcast, we got a lot of stuff to talk about a lot of moving parts going on in the world. We have to talk about a little family business. What's up? Little family business here, the Ringer family business. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's hot in these Ringer streets.

Earlier this week, New York Times, at least a piece of article. this is well put it. They released the piece. And in this piece, they talked about issues here at the Ringer regarding diversity, regarding the amplification of certain voices, those being black voices, and the fallout from something we've already discussed here on higher learning, which was the Ryan Russela podcast that he did with Bill Simmons. And so, you know, the New York Times piece speaks for itself. You can read that. I am not going to, you know, sum that up for it for you. But during this, I guess because of this, should I say, there's been some discussion about how seriously the ringer takes diversity, Bill himself and how seriously Bill, who is, of course you guys know, is the head of the ringer takes diversity. And the overall climate here in the company,

as far as workplace is concerned for African American voices. Two things. well, first thing is this, number one, I was contacted by the New York Times to be a part of this. Were you really? I absolutely was. They didn't call me.

They didn't ask me. They didn't ask me. Not notorious for calling out, the people that I work with. Reg Wrage would have been like, yo, yo, we ride, man. Should have called me.

No. I did not talk to the New York Times, not because I've heard anything against the gentleman who did it. I thought he was very polite when we're on the phone. But the reason why I didn't was because I have just recently got to the ringer. And the voices that are here at the company that are asking for diversity, they've been fighting this fight for a long time. And I am not aware of the past issues here at the company or the past concerns for people.

So I couldn't legitimately and accurately speak to that. Okay. What I will tell you is this. I'm confident that while things in the past have not been as inclusive as people will want them to be, that the future will be brighter than the past was here at the company. And if I was not confident in that, I would not be comfortable working here. Now, that is not me standing in front of any shrapnel for Bill Simmons or for the company. or for Spotify or for anyone.

What I'm saying is, is that personally here for me, I think that there's going to be an extra added sort of priority on diversity here at the Ringer. And I am betting my future here that there will be. Yeah. I mean, I'm right there with you. Yeah. And I, going forward, would not work for any organization that I did not feel like was committed to increasing diverse voices. And when I say increasing diverse voices, I don't just mean with podcasts or with writing jobs or with anything like that.

I mean having black people, black women, all different types of people in positions of power. at the organization. I think you're going to see that. I think if you don't see that, you'll see extra added animus. But as far as I'm concerned right now, I can't speak on what was, but I can say that hopefully that's embraced moving forward.

And here on higher learning, we just don't have the luxury of being able to run from that. If everyone is having a conversation revolving around that, and there are problems in the shot where we weren't, we have to continuously give you guys our opinions on that as well. I've spoken to a lot of different people of color that people of color. Fuck that. Black people.

Yeah, you get mad when I say people of color. I don't like that shit. I don't know why I just did it. I've talked to a lot of black people that work here at the Ringer, and they're frustrated. And if they've been working here for a long time and they haven't seen the diversity, grow like it should in the company. They haven't seen their voices grow like they shouldn't.

They should be frustrated. But I think we're at a point here. Well, even before the New York Times situation, even before any of that, there were certain things that were happening to kind of address it. Bill's been talking to me for two years, trying to get me over here for two years, you know. And that's not to say that hiring me or Baccari or you or Jamil

or anyone like that. is answering the questions for people who've already worked here. But I'm hoping, and once again, staking my future in the company on the fact that those voices would be heard and amplified. You pretty much said everything that I would say. I think that if you're just getting to know Van and I from this podcast or if you've followed us before, you know how we roll at this point. And I think you know that we would never be a part of something that goes against what we

stand for. So I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. And the only thing I was going to add, too, which you kind of touched on, is that there are people, a lot of people, my audience thinks that we created this podcast in response to what is happening right now, or maybe even in response to the recent news of, or the ringer being in the recent news. This has been in the works. We've been talking about this. You've been talking about coming on with the ringer and working with Bill for two years. I I'm a little bit less than that. But this is something we've been discussing. This is not a reaction or a response to what's happening right now in the country.

So I just want to put that out there too. But I'm like you. I'm excited to see what happens with the ringer. If this is a family, we're like adopted children. You know, like we're kind of on the outside. But I mean, I'm happy to be a part of the ringer. Period. Something being on the outside of your family, something that you know all too well about.

Like, you know what it's like to not really be a part to have your family kind of like be like, uh, stay over there. No, it's crazy. No, it's crazy.

No, seriously. I do want to do one thing before we leave them. So two of the, two of the guys that I've talked to, and I'm going to leave people out, two of the guys that I've talked to,

and I want to put, I want to mention their names in this part of the podcast. I want to mention the name of Tyler Tynes, who is at Tyler Rikki Tynes on, on Twitter. One thing that can happen here, that should happen here, is that there are black people at the ringer right now,

black employees that are doing fantastic work. Tyler has been doing fantastic work writing and sort of putting this moment that we're in, in America, like on the page, on the screen for the ringer. So he has been covering that he has been doing that work. I'm going to tell you guys something right now. Tyler Rikitynes, if you follow him right now, we can amplify his voice right now on social media.

if you follow Tyler, I'll follow you. Okay? We're doing a follow for a follow. Not just Tyler, but Micah Peters as well. That's my homeboy from down there in Louisiana. That is at Micah Peters underscore on Twitter. Those are two fantastic ringer employees, too brilliant, black Americans who are writing up a storm doing great work for the company.

And if you want to help and you want to amplify people's voices, raise their profiles. We'll follow those brothers right now. I'm sure there are other people at the company that are black and I'm missing you. I'm sorry. Those are the two guys. There are more. Don't make it seem like there's only two and that's what the problem is. There are more. There are. There are. All right. That's enough. That's enough. That's enough. That's enough of that. Just know that, you know, just have to talk about it. Things are, things are, listen, it's a tough time for everyone. Isn't that the beauty of our podcast? We don't shy away from anything. We speak out on things that directly affect the topics of this podcast. So that's what we do.

Right? This is on point. This is on brand. Support black people. Support black voices everywhere. And we would do that and we would ask that anyone that we work with would do the same thing. Now, there is a huge development that happened in this whole Bubba Wallace situation. This Bubba Wallace thing, we talked about it on the last podcast, Rachel, where there was a noose that was found in a garage that Bubba Wallace was using while he was there at Talladega. Okay? NASCAR then came out and said it was a disgusting thing that the news was found.

They talked about it. Bubba Wallace responded. There was in an FBI investigation into the news. Turned out that in some sort of way, the news had always been there. It wasn't specific. The FBI found that there was no one to sort of arrest or charge with a hate crime that the news had been there before. this made people want NASCAR to crawfish.

Wilkane, being as Wilcany as he always is, said that NASCAR should be ashamed of themselves because they jumped the gun before the investigation, assuming that the news was a racist symbol. Here's the thing. Everyone was willing to be like, yo, this was a misunderstanding, this was this and was that. Until today,

a picture of the news, itself was released. We're going to show you the picture of the news right now for the people watching on video. If not, I want you to Google Bubba Wallace Garage News and then tell me what the fuck you see. Right. Rachel, you saw the picture. It's a fucking news. It's a news.

There's no if, ands or buts about it. Which is why when people were trying to drag Bubba, and say that he was trying to make himself a victim and calling him Jesse Smollett and all these things. It's like, do you, did you not hear what Bubba said? It's not like Bubba discovered this. This information was brought to him. To him. Somebody saw it.

NASCAR, the head of NASCAR, called him while he was at dinner. So obviously, multiple eyes had been on this. The FBI got involved. Obviously, there was enough speculation to look at this image. Look at what they saw because it wasn't an image. They were looking at it in person to determine that this was a noose. Yes. Period.

Period. NASCAR officials asked each track to walk their respective garages following Sunday's discovery. This is a quote. Across the 1684 garage stalls at 29 tracks, NASCAR found only 11 total that had a pulled down rope tied in a knot and only one noose. And that noose was in Garage for Bubba Wallace. It was a noose. But, Van, I thought about you. I don't do that often.

I don't do that. I thought, let me explain. When we talked about this on Monday, you said that you were glad that this happened. Because it showed you that we have a long way to go. And I agreed with you. And that point was emphasized at the reaction of the reaction of the, the NASCAR fans and the public that were ready to drag Bubba Wallace when there was speculation that this was just a pull down rope. Once again, you give these people an opportunity to show

their ass and they do. And that's exactly what they did to poor Bubba. I watched him on CNN talking. He told Tom Lemon that he was reading the comments. I felt so sorry for him. Tom was like, bro, you can't read the comments now. But he just felt so defeat. You know, one day he was high with the whole everybody, all the drivers and everyone rolling behind him and he was in tears. And then the next day, they're dragging him and turning on him because they're accusing him of fabricating this entire story. And it's just ridiculous. So let's talk about that for a second. So when you, when the whole Justice Smolett thing happened, right? People were saying that, listen, if Justice Smolett lied about that story, then that hurts black people as a whole. It hurts black. It hurts black.

people, it hurts gay people as a whole. There's not a more intensely racist thing that you can say than that statement. It's very difficult to get more racist in that statement. I'll tell you why. Number one, even if Justice Milette had lied about that, like, why should what one person does reflect the believability of an entire race or entire group of people? Like, they're not going to investigate the next thing. Police are going to not investigate the next thing.

The next time somebody may say, well, that's their job to investigate it. Their job is to investigate whether or not it's something is a hate crime. If it's not, it's not. So the thing with the Bubba Wallace situation is this. I don't think that Bubba Wallace in this moment or anyone that works for his team need to fabricate anything in order to get more. He's as famous as he's ever been. He's as famous as he's ever been. It strikes me and shout out to Bumani Jones for putting this out there that the believability of this entire situation has to do,

when you put it in context with the history of NASCAR. Yep. You know what I mean? Like with the history of NASCAR, that has to do with that and knowing that there was a woman outside of a race saying that she was going to teach her grandkids to call people the N-word. She said, I'm going to teach her.

She said, like some lady outside of flying a rebel flag said, I'm going to teach my grandkids to call you a Nick. She's, they're raging. They're trying to, they're trying to keep the. rebel flag, a symbol of white supremacy as part of the culture of the sport.

So all I'm saying is this. In this time, first of all, that thing is a news. Yeah, hands down. Whether or not the noose was purposely put there, or whether or not someone tied something in the news

to form or to serve some other function in the garage, and then it went up there. What we have to remember is that Bubba Wallace didn't create the climate that made him believe that was a racist symbol, a symbol of hate and a threat on his life. That climate existed.

We're trying to get out of the mode in our brains where we are reactionary to things, but the reality is us being reactionary to things is a survival mechanism. I see a news. Whoa, danger, danger, danger. Who's coming to kill me? Now, had there not been Emmett Till and Amad Arbery and George Florida,

Breonna Taylor and Sandra Bland, and anybody else who has been lynched in the history of this country, had we not seen pictures of black man hanging from nooses, then maybe we wouldn't react that way to a noose. So get off Bubba Wallace's dick. But you know what, though? It's not even just Bubba Wallace reacting to it. NASCAR knows NASCAR's history.

know their problematic history with racism, specifically with Talladega. So the fact that they reacted in that way shows that they know how problematic their past is, how they know they have a long way to go. When you have airplanes flying with flags, Confederate flags over the track that say defund NASCAR, when you're selling out of merchandise, those vendors were saying this is the best they've been able to sell emblems or the Confederate flag emblem with all their merchandise on it. And years. The fact that you're selling out, you're promoting this Confederate pride and all of this stuff shows how problematic NASCAR is. And it in Bubba Wallace that has to show it. It's the head of NASCAR and their reaction to all of this at the same time. I'm still not going to the

racetrack. I support Bubba Wallace from a distance. You wouldn't catch me there. You wouldn't catch you. You feel unsafe at NASCAR race. Yeah, it's a scary feeling to me. Yeah. I mean, look, look, I wouldn't go to a NASCAR race because I have no interest in the sport. But look, I think what's happening in the sport as far as the changing culture is fascinating. It's fascinating for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is that you think that that's always going to be a stronghold of certain beliefs. You think NASCAR is going to be that. And this shows that that doesn't necessarily have to be so.

There is a part of me that doesn't believe that the problems that we're, trying to solve or solvable. I can totally see why you would say that. And I would tend to agree with you. There's a part of me that that doesn't think that we're ever going to birth the country that we say we live in. Because I want everybody to understand something here. The America that you've told existed, is a complete and utter lie.

It's a lie. It doesn't, this comes from someone who, when you look at the ideals of the country and when you look at what the country aspires to be, those are noble. And as a society, that would be fantastic.

And driving towards that goal is what has allowed America, to sort of exist the way it has. You know, you've always had people that have risen to the greatness of what the country says that it should be. From all over the spectrum. Sure. But America is 200 and some odd years old,

where we say 1775, so I'm not good at math, you know what I mean? I didn't even try. I'm not to try. So we're celebrating 100 years that women have had the right to vote. So for over half the time, women had zero voice to make decisions in a country that is supposed to recognize the achievement and the minds and the contributions of everyone. We're celebrating literally 50 or 60 years of black people having full citizenry. So when we say that America is a work in progress, we're not saying that perfecting America is a work of progress.

Like we're working hard to build that. And sometimes I don't think we can't. Sometimes I'm down about it. But I'm going to be honest with you. Things like what happened in NASCAR the last couple of days, when I saw a real change in a sport that have been so on the other side of it, That's when the glimmers of hope start to jump in for me. Yeah.

I mean, the only thing I'll say to that is that I'm like you because I typically am cynical, look at things in a cynical way that I do in a positive way. So I like you think at the end of the day, is anything really going to change? And if it does, it's definitely not happening in our lifetime, right? It's going to happen in another lifetime. But the glimmers of hope that you speak of, the attention. tension that we have of people in a way that we never have before, people speaking and at least attempting to understand things in another way, that's the space that I have to live in.

Otherwise, I'm not going to be okay. Mentally, I'm not going to be okay if I don't appreciate or try to appreciate what's happening right now. When you say you're not going to be okay, what does not being okay look like? Do you feel like you would, what would you do? I'm angry. I get angry. I think I've talked about this before on the podcast that I'm stuck in a place of being angry with people acting like this all just happened this year. This is all new when we know the struggle that we've been going through since we got here. And it frustrates me knowing that people are asking questions or saying, you know, I know people who are like, I don't know why. Why I didn't know that. I don't know why you didn't know either. I actually do know why. You just. chose not to understand. You chose to ignore. You chose to stay in your bubble and to live in your world where you are not affected by things the way that we are. You can ignore it. That is your privilege. So when I start thinking in that way, I get mad and I get frustrated. And I, and I get to the point where I'm like, I don't want your help. We don't need it because you know what?

We haven't had it this long. But then I, oh, go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead. your anger is why aren't you okay being angry with it you do feel like you're angry do you not want to be angry about it i don't want to be angry because i don't think that that's healthy i i if i stay angry then i'm i don't think that i can be in a productive place and i want to be productive with this and i want to take action and i want to move forward and if i stay in a place of the past then i then i can't help things moving forward so i'm trying to have more of a positive outlook on things. Not always successful on it. Yeah. So I have reaccessed my anger. What made you do that? Because I think my anger is helpful. Okay. I think one thing that I've done in the past is I've let America

take my anger from me to make me more palatable to them. Now, the reason why I'm I say that's because, you know, there's a whole thing with the, you're in a room with a bunch of people, right? Yeah. And you're talking about things. And you start to get your dander up, you know, how then I get worked up. You know, you start to get your dander up. Yeah.

And people start to say that you're emotional, that you're being illogical, that you are in some ways being reactionary to whatever's going on. Try being a woman in doing this. I get it. I get it. By the way, as a man, I know, I know that. As a man, when you're into it with a woman, when you're into it with the woman, the last thing you want to say to her is, yo, relax.

Right? Because as soon as you say, as soon as you say relax, that's like, yo, it's, oh, yeah, that face right there. What you mean, relax? You know what you got me going through? Okay. I'm out. Bye.

No, so I think that I sacrifice my anger in order to be considered intelligent, right? Because you're having these situations and they're not mad about it. Like a black man is killed. You know, Trayvon Martin is killed. Mike Brown is killed. They're not upset. They are now arguing the ins and outs of the situation. And they're asking you to do the same so that you can have a logical conversation with it.

Here's the thing, though, is that America hasn't earned logic from me. They've invested into my anger, and that's what they've earned. They've earned my anger. That's what they've, that's what they've traded in. So I'm not going to try to be rational about irrational situations. I'm not going to try to do that. I'm not going to try to be rational about watching a man die screaming out for his mom. Like, that's an irrational situation.

and I'm going to be angry about it and you're going to get the full brunt of my anger, all of it. I think now is the time you can do that because people are going to be very much more hesitant to label you as an angry black man. It's interesting that you say being more palatable and stuff because when I was The Bachelorette,

I felt it was constantly on my mind to not play into the stereotype of being the angry black female, only to ultimately become, the angry black female by the time my season ended when I was on stage doing a live show. That's what was labeled against me. People said, oh my gosh, when she was taped, they must have been hiding that. That's who she really is. Somebody asked me today, would I be the same bachelorette today that I was three years ago

in light of what's happening? And I said, that's a really interesting question because I wouldn't. I knew that there were certain things. Like, I remember at one point, these braids that I have right now, I remember I got braids right after my season was over. I was politely told, maybe you should take your braids out and wear your hair a different way

when my season was over and I was doing press. Right now, I would have no, I would not hold back. I would wear exactly my hair the way I wanted to. I'd be probably more vocal about my season. Rather than back three years ago, it's not that I wasn't myself. It was I also understood the audience that I was being in front of.

And I knew that I had to tone certain things down to at least be accepted and presented a certain way. So I do understand what you're saying about not holding back on your anger. I think now is the time where we can unapologetically release it. Not that you're saying, not saying that you're doing it because of the times. I think that, you know, this is just who you are. But I think now we can fully do it and people actually understand our anger and where we're come from. And so they're not going to call us angry black females.

They're going to say, I understand why she's upset. And she should be angry. And I'd be angry too if I look like her and I saw what was happening in my people. I'm going to be angry until there is nothing to be angry about me more. Honestly, I've never seen you not angry. I mean, look, I'm, I'm, look, mad-ass van. I want to see this tone down van. Hey.

What does he walk in a room and do? Mad-ass van. But look, angry. But in control, a controlled anger to where I can be useful to get things done and can still make these points. Yeah. Now, we're going to get into another time, but before we do, we're going to break for an ad. And this is a very proud ad that's coming up right now because this is one of my homies,

one of my homies, one of my intellectual homeboys is coming to the ringer. So let's hear about it. I'm so excited to introduce the Bukari Sellers podcast in partnership with the ringer. We're tackling the issues of the day through interviews with high profile guests and conversations with a rotating panel of the country's best and leading thinkers, influencers, and writers. You know, I'm not only an attorney and a former elected official. Sometimes you see me on CNN, and I'm a new author of a New York Times bestselling book,

My Vanishing Country. But now we're introducing the Bukari Sellers podcast, and we're going to cover everything from the 2020 election to sports and culture to the larger movement for racial equality in the United States. We're going to have some of your favorite quarterback, some of your. your favorite politicians, some of your favorite athletes, writers, singers, actors, actresses. The Bacari Sellers podcast will debut on Monday, June 29th. Listen free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

That was great. Make sure you listen to Bacari. In terms of political knowledge, Bacchari is the guy that I, when I want to know things about politics, Bacari is the guy that I hit up. And he gives me a lot of insight. So when you're listening to that podcast, you will be as politically sharp as you need to be. That's a man who's been in those halls with those people. He knows what he's talking about.

We should have on the show. I've never met Pachar. You met Andy Cohen, though. So I see you're choosing wisely. So speaking of politics, the police reform bill is being volleyed around in government. Like Gabriel Reese is in the Capitol Hill. And if you guys don't know who Gabrielle Reese is, she, this whole time,

she used to be like this. Remember her? She was like a tall. Remember Gabrile Reese? Was Gabrieree? She was a beach volleyball lady. And like she was a big star. It's so crazy how people can go from,

Gabriel Rees. Like, Google her right now. She was a big star. She was like a huge star in the beach volleyball languages. And it was like, she was a, you see her? No, no, no, I'm still looking. She was such a big deal that she was a household name for X amount of times. And then now just nobody knows.

Oh, yeah. She totally looks familiar. Yeah, Gabrielle Reese. So that's my volleyball thing makes sense. Okay. What about her? No. So it's being volleyed around as if she was on the other end of it. We are, we are, I had to come back to it.

We are sort of at an impasse between what the Democrats want to get passed in terms of police reform and what the Republicans want to get passed as far as police reform. You've been watching this. What is your take? I don't think we're going to get there. So for everyone who's, they're really pretty much on opposite ends of the spectrum

and I don't see them coming to any kind of middle ground because the Democrats want to get rid of qualified immunity protection for police officers that shields them from legal accountability for their misconduct. It's very, very hard to overcome. And they also want a federal ban on chokeholds. The Republicans, on the other hand, want to incentivize the police to get rid of certain things or to enforce certain things. And at the same time, they want to have the database, which I think is something that they agree on.

I don't see them coming together at all. You've already seen Senator Tim Scott call qualified immunity a poison pill. If the Democrats don't let that go and they shouldn't, we're never going to come to any type of middle ground when it comes to this bill. the Republicans aren't doing anything. What they're doing it, what they want, the training, incentivizing, that's already what the police should be doing, right? The only thing I can agree on on their bill is this federal database that it is that they want

to monitor police conduct. I think the other thing they agree on are the police cams, which the body cams, which haven't we already done? Haven't we already done that? The body cams were supposed to save us a couple of years ago.

Yeah, that happened under the Obama administration. Yeah. I mean, I guess I get frustrated. I don't understand. And I get the Democrats not wanting to let up on what they want in the bill. When you have things like the three North Carolina officers on accidentally caught on camera talking about how they're going to go hunt down black people, these are police officers.

When you're having what happened, as we're in the middle of this understanding, you're, you're in the middle of this unrest what happened with Rayshard Brooks, when you're having all these things still happen at the hands of the police and black people suffering and dying and being lynched in modern day in daylight. And the Republicans want to say, well, you know what? Let's just incentivize the police if they do right. What is that going to do? How can you say you're serious about police reform?

How can Senator Tim Scott say he's disgusted by what he's seeing, but then have a bill that doesn't hold police accountable. And I just, I never was really hopeful that on the federal level, we would come to some type of agreement because we just want two different things. It's really going to have to come down to the local levels to get things done. I'm interested in having Senator Tim Scott on higher learning. I put that out there right now. I've actually reached out to a couple of people who know him.

I'm interested in having him on higher learning. I'm interested in talking to him. I read a piece on the route by Michael Harriet that actually praised Tim Scott's version of the bill. On the route? On the route. Okay. Absolutely. That actually praised Tim Scott's version of the bill saying that there were actually ways that we could get to where we're trying to go using his version of things.

And that his version is, you know, that it's, that it's in some. ways a better bill. I'm going to admit something right here. Qualified immunity to me is the most it's the simplest way to hold a police officer directly accountable for misconduct. If you open up police officers to personal suits, now they have skin in the game if something goes wrong. That's a way that stops somebody else for paying for their mistake. The thing is that worries me about what's happening in Washington is that when I said that this game of volleyball being played, it's not necessarily the bill that's the ball. It's black people.

See, we're being, we're being volleyed around Capitol Hill right now because this is a political pissing contest between the left and the right. I'm not saying that I don't think that the, the, uh, the CBC bill, um, is better. Uh, but what I'm saying is that, they know that once something passes the House, that it dies in the Senate. Yeah. And then they know that even if they got it through the Senate, that most likely 45 would veto. So a lot of what's happening is people doing things for show.

Now, the Democrats don't have a choice. They don't have the votes in the Senate. The Republicans are not going to do anything that significantly defunds or challenges their relationships with police unions. So what I need to know in very plain language from Senator Tim Scott, from Karen Bass, and both of them is how they think this problem is politically solvable. Now, what I think that you would hear from, at least the Democrats, is we can solve the problem in November by voting in a new administration from the top, then down ballot that would then give us what we need to pass everything we wanted to pass by

majority in the Senate and then by obviously having the majority in the House. I think and then having a president who wouldn't veto. I think that's what they'll say. But I want to hold both parties feet to the flame now. I want to make sure that we recognize the moment that we're in now. I'm a liberal. I am a liberal, I'm a liberal,

died of a wool liberal, right? But I don't belong to a political party. I left the Democrats a while ago because I don't think the Democrats have enough of a focus on what's going on in the African American community. But I am a liberal.

I believe in policies that are supporting power people. So I want to know exactly who's responsible for us not getting what we need. And I want names and I want constituents.

Are you talking about with this bill or are you talking about in general? No, with this bill in particular, I think the way that we start to move forward is, for example, Flint, right? And this is research that I can do on my own in Flint. Black people drinking dirty water in Flint. The water in Flint's fucked up. We've talked about government. We've talked about all of these different things. We've talked about environmental racism and all of these different issues.

what we're going to do on this podcast is we're going to highlight the dude responsible, the lady responsible for the drinking water in Flint. Now, I'm sure there's a board somewhere, or there's a group of politicians somewhere, or a group of public servants somewhere, that that's their job. But I need those names. I need people to come out from behind the shadows and the things that are protecting them. Because if we don't get policing reform done, right? If we don't get it through where we need to go,

need to know precisely who we need to vote out. Okay, but here's my thing. Here's my thing with that. And going back to the Justice and Policing Act, I don't know how I'm, I'm, I'm, I hear what you're saying and I agree with it, but I don't know how you do that because somebody's going to have to get, they're going to have to come to some middle ground because where it stands, they're not even close. They're not close to cut to making this bill.

pass in the Senate. So who do you hold accountable for that? How do you pick one person and hold accountable for that? Because if the Democrats, the Democrats aren't asking to defund the police. That's something that you should, this, that's not even a part of this bill. It's not about defunding the police. It's about qualified immunity. By the way, I'm not saying that there should be one specific person in any of these

places that is responsible for this. I'm saying there are specific people who are responsible. And we know the Mitch McConnell's. We know the Tim Scots. We know these guys. We know who they are. But we also need to know. We need breakdowns and we need to be transparent about why American society is it getting the healing that it needs.

And we have to be very intentional about the way we hold people responsible for that. Now, in a lot of places, it's not going to matter to the people that follow them, but I need to know. But can't you just say that it's the way that this. system is, honestly, because if the Democrats run the House and you know something's going to pass there and then it gets to the Senate, it's going to be shut down, that's what the problem is. People are just voting strictly on their parties and afraid to step out. And if you continue to vote just based on your party, then nothing's ever going to get done unless the Dems run both the House in the Senate or the Republicans run both. So I don't really know how you do that.

because everybody knows, okay, well, it'll go past this and then fail here. And then it just does. And nobody's getting anything done. Right. No, you're right. You're absolutely right. This is what I'm saying, though. What I'm saying is when we're talking about a budget or we're talking about something else that has...

Yeah, you're right. You know what I mean? When we're talking about a budget and we're talking about something to where you might be fiscally liberal, you might be fiscally conservative, you vote party lines. I'm okay with politics as usual in that case. But when we're talking about our lie, I'm not okay with politics as usual. There needs to be some unusual, extraordinary politics that are going on. Because the politicians in Washington, excuse me, the politicians of Washington,

they need to meet the moment. And so that's what I'm saying. They need to meet the moment. And anyone anywhere that's not willing to meet the moment now, oh, we got to know who they are. I agree with you. And I think to answer your question about, or not question, But what you were saying about when it comes to money, like as far as getting these incentive checks and stuff out and they were able to come to a common ground when it comes to that, that doesn't affect their money, their campaigns the way it will if they decide to do things that hurt the police force.

It affects them differently. It comes down to politics, which, again, whether it's politicizing a health issue or politicizing human rights, that's the problem in all of this. You're politicizing what's going on right now to black people. in this country at the hands of police. And it shouldn't be that. But unfortunately, it is. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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They'd go decide to get my money to title. God damn, title. I'll listen to title today too, man. So let you guys know, Title got in a little trouble. Title got in trouble because title on an episode of Drink Champs with my boy, Norrie, they were talking about Black Lives Matter, and the panel was as follows. It was the great my son. It was the amazing Mark Lamont Hill. It was Norrie. It was Bun B, the Houston legend.

half of UGK rest in peace to Pips C. It was my brother and homie to live quali one of the dopest rappers and most socially conscious brothers in the history of hip hop and then it was Russell Simmons. We should say that Mark Lamont Hill

says, and of course I believe Mark that he, of course you believe Mark, that he did not know that Russell Simmons was going to be a part of this panel until Russell Simmons magically appeared on the screen because they started to talk and then Russell jumped in. If you do not know why it's a problem to have Russell Simmons on this panel, we talked about the documentary on the record where Russell Simmons was accused by three different women specifically,

but he has over 20 allegations of sexual misconduct. People flipped out on Twitter when they saw that Russell. was a part of a Black Lives Matter discussion. What was your response, Richard? I was one of the people flipping out. I said, are Black men trolling us right now? I just don't understand in light of everything that's going on. And we have this whole movement behind hashtag, say her name.

And there's this whole discussion finally about how black women aren't being valued in this society. And specifically, not just in society as a whole, black men, We've had multiple discussions on this podcast, and we just started about black men disrespecting black women, not honoring them and holding them in regard. And I just, I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I said, I'm sorry, who's in charge of this? Who went wrong here? Why would anybody want to hear from Russell Simmons?

Because they were talking about the movement. Were they not? Yes, they were. Okay. I think that that's important, too. It wasn't like they were having a discussion about the music industry. They were talking about the movement. Black women are a part of this movement.

And part of this movement is the fact that our voices have not been heard and we have not been seen. And here we go with black men doing it to us again. Because not only was it a problem that Russell Simmons was a part of it. It was a problem that there were no black women on this panel. Why were our voices not a part of this? Why couldn't we be represented in all of this? title you messed up wasn't revolt TV involved as well well I don't know why you're putting it on revolt was revolt was I could have sworn no because when I was looking at this I thought they were

part of this oh you know what you know what I think that drink champs comes on revolt thank you thank you put them in there by the way by the way I had a bad fucking podcast last podcast man that's oh for two I defended revolt and I defended title only for revolt and title to fuck up that's right that's right that's right that's time shout out out to puff. It's such a problem. And the thing is, I saw Mark Lamont Hill apologize and say he didn't know. And I truly believe him. But then I immediately thought, how powerful would it have been that the moment he saw Russell Simmons pop up? He said, you know what? I'm sorry. I got respect for you guys. And I appreciate being a part of this panel. But in light of what we're talking about, because he's, I should also say in his apology, he said that he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, believes the women that were in a part of the documentary on the record who are accusing Russell Simmons of sexually harassing and assaulting them. So wait, he said, why didn't he speak out?

Oh, did I miss that part? No, no, he said, he asked, he actually addressed that. He said he chose comfortability in the moment. Thank you. Other than his conviction. He said something to that point on Twitter. And that's the problem because what I find so disturbing is, we're sitting right here in this moment and we're talking about how we've had 400 years of

oppression against blacks in this country and we're talking about how change won't happen overnight because of all these years that we've been oppressed. But why aren't we acknowledging the fact that, and we did, we talked about this on the podcast before, that in the music industry specifically, since that's who these people were on this panel and then also talking about Russell Simmons, that they have been problematic at the way that they define black women. And I don't understand why they can't, you can talk about what white people are doing against blacks, but you can't see your own fault in how you are problematic against black women. And they were doing it in two ways with this panel by not having our voices on it and then

bringing somebody like Russell Simmons in light of all that's surrounding him on as if we're just going to ignore it, as if we're just going to gloss over it and excuse it. That's what it felt like. You know, I'm not, you know, people can believe what these accusations are or not, but in light of what's going on, you couldn't find anybody else to come on, any other voice. We should say also, just in full disclosure, that the, that all of this was sort of recorded the same day that Russell had done the Breakfast Club interview. So this is a couple of weeks ago. It's a couple of I'm not sure. Wait, wait, wait. What?

He recorded. This was pre-recorded. This was recorded a couple of weeks ago. So you saw the backlash from the breakfast club and you still put this out. Talk your shit. Talk your shit, Big Rache. I am floored. I know at this point they've removed Russell Simmons from the, whatever it was, the recording. But you knew it was wrong.

You knew people were upset. You saw the backlash from the breakfast club. You saw these women who were accusing Russell. Russell Simmons speak out. You saw the black community surround them. And even past that, this movement of say her name and represent and uplift black women has been out here. And you still thought it was smart for you to put this out here. You had time to remove it and you didn't, which shows even more how much you don't, you don't care.

Until you're criticized, you don't care, which is very similar to what's happening in the bigger part of this movement. white people are now, their eyes are open to the problematic way that they've treated us in this country. They're acting like it just happened when it's been here for years. They, they've been wrong. Black men have been wrong in the way that they've treated us. And you now know it. It's a discussion we're having. And you still decided to upload that and put that out there.

I'm floored. I can, I am floored. You shouldn't even told me that. You should have told me that. I thought you knew. They will not get my membership. Oh, my God. You're not going to join title?

Damn. I got a, you know, it's so, it's so hard, it's so hard being on the other side of it. I agree with everything that you're saying. But every time you say black man, black man,

it cuts, it hurts. Because I just be out here doing my best. And it's like, it, I understand why brothers react the way that they do. and it takes so much in you to stand in that moment and accept that criticism. You have to, right?

You have to because accepting that criticism helps you hold your homies accountable. It helps you hold yourself accountable. It helps you kind of like my skin is tingling right now. every time I'm challenged about what it is that I'm doing or every time there's something in your brain right that because of everything that you've been through after 40 years of being a black man right there's something in your brain that whenever someone criticizes black men using that term that you go right into fight or flight mode I get it you go right into oh we're talking about us let's get it and it doesn't matter what it is like I

I've defended black men in the past who've done stupid shit, right? Niggi get caught with like 19 pistols driving in a school zone. And I'm like, you don't know how he grew up. He needed 19 pistols because maybe he had to shoot 19 people and he wanted to alternate guns. I was like, you don't know. I've been so conditioned to do this that to not do it when you know that doing it is destructive or not the lick is fucking hard. It just, it really is.

And I think it's crazy because you have to want to not have that reaction. I get it. And it's, like, even when you're sitting there, I'm like, damn, and it's mixed because part of it is like, I know she ain't talking to me. Then part of it is like, she's not talking to you. The part of it is, yeah, you're part of it. talking to you. So,

and the point that you just made about title is actually one I hadn't thought about. It was recorded. The reason, the way that I know that it was recorded a couple of weeks back is because Mark said that it was. And if you watch the interview, which I did,

it said, Russell says that that same day he had spoken to Charlemagne. So that was the same day he had done the Breakfast Club interview. I don't know what it's going to take. for us to get it. And it's like, when you have revolt,

which is ditty, you got title, Jay-Z, you got the Breakfast Club, you got Charlemagne, and it's just like, these are people who are influential in the black community

who are affecting this next generation and by you giving Russell Simmons a platform, it's as if you're standing behind him rather than supporting and uplifting black women. They feel neglected. they feel like they're not heard.

And I don't know what it's going to take. I wish someone would speak out. I'm glad Mark Lamont Hill did, but it's almost one of those too little too late. Like, you know when you saw him pop up, you were sitting there like, this is not okay. And I just can't. He says that he was, he was texting one of the producers.

And I just, I just kept thinking, my God, it would have been so powerful if he would have said something. That was your moment to stand up and speak for this. Like, while we're talking, about the movement, let's talk about our black women. Did nobody look around and say, we need the voice, the representation of a black woman on this. We're affected by this too. That was said.

I think Mark said it at before everything signed off. He didn't address Russell directly, but he did say the next time we do one of these, we have to have some black women on the panel. So he did say that much. And listen, Mark Lamont Hill is a good brother. Oh, I'm a fan. I'm 100% a fan. Mark Lamont Hill is a good brother.

I think the more troubling thing is us not wanting to cut out part of the cancer to, like, heal the wound. And that's, look, anybody that would have Russell Simmons on to specifically address the allegations made against him, I don't have an issue with that. Allegations were made. He should be able to have his say as well. those interviews get done every day. But I don't, I think that if we pretend like everything that's going on with him and that went on in his shop in the 90s, his business as usual, then we're going to damn or curse another generation to that same business. Van. We're not, we're not going to learn anything.

The irony of having a pampherson. to talk about the need for change, yeah, you have somebody on the panel who's part of the problem. How can we be taught you talk about one problem and then you got another person who's part of the problem on the panel. It's, it has to be acknowledged. What's happening with black women has to be acknowledged and recognized by the movers and shakers in the industry first before we can even start to unlearn this problematic behavior. Yep. We're going to need to see leadership, very clear leadership from the top and not everybody going to be able to get on the boat that's just the way that it goes now as black people we shouldn't be getting on no boats we got on the boat one time

and they fucked us up uh but but uh yeah it's uh oh man that whole little thing bummed me out man I just want to believe that no it wasn't it wasn't no no it's not it's not I'm not it's not you didn't bum me out I just want to just feel better uh it's not is no you Do you, that was you talking your shit in its grand glory and it's such truth and it has to get out there. I just want to, I just want to feel better, man. Yeah, it's just, it, I just, I don't understand how that left the, whatever, the meeting, the strategy, how that that plan came to fruition. It just shows how tone death you are as to what's happening that you let something like this come about. That's how I feel.

And I just thought, what is it going to? take for people to speak up and speak out. The silence is deafening. Yeah. No? You're right. So, statues getting torn down, names being changed in America. This reckoning that we're in. Reckoning. I like that word. So reckoning. This reckoning that we're in is stretching to every part of everything.

Shout to Gary Chambers down there in Baton Rouge, my home boy Gary, who, Gary Chambers and Walter McLaughlin. So Gary Chambers is a guy I've known for a couple of years. Gary ran for some public offices in a couple of days. We raised some money for him. Excuse me, a couple of months ago, maybe like last year, maybe 2018. We raised some money for him.

But Gary has finally got his shine on down there. They got the name of Robert E. Lee High changed. And Gary went viral, calling out Connie. Connie, just doing her daily shopping. Just doing her daily shopping. So fuck Connie and big up to Gary, big up to Walter Gino McLaughlin, who also is a graduate of Lehigh. They got the name of Lehigh change. Question for you.

They're talking about maybe changing the name, excuse me, not changing the name of, but changing the Star-Spangled Banner. That is a racist slave song. You guys do your own, do your own research. When I say something like that, a lot of people are getting upset. only veins and say the Star Spangled Banner is a slave song. Go do your own research on the Star Spangled Banner and see if the song

talks about in verses that I've been removed that we don't sing slavery and freedom and all of that stuff like that. The song is problematic. Look at the time that it was written. Okay? Think of the mindset of people when that was written. You know what I mean? Just like use your common sense

but also go research, but I'm just saying. Fine. So question for you. Is there a point to you where the changing of the names and the sort of ripping of the statues down, do you have a line? Is there a point to you where you do?

Yes. Star-Spickle banner is not the line. That's not the line. Change the song. What's the line? So I was watching the view and they were having this discussion and Megan McCain was making the point,

well, okay, well, if we're going to start, she was saying that she's a collector. of, you know, she's got, I believe it was Theodore Roosevelt. She's got pictures of him and they collect, I don't know what it was, but they have some of the stuff that's getting torn down. She and her husband collect this and they have this type of art in their house. And she was saying, if we're going to do this, then why are we stopping here? We need to change the name of Yale because it's named after a prominent slayment, I shouldn't say prominent, but just an infamous slave. I saw this clip.

I saw this clip. For the people who didn't. And then she also talks about New York. We need to change the name of New York because it's named after the Duke of York and he was a slave trader. So that to me is where you draw the line. I don't think you should change the name of the city of New York or the institution of Yale. These statutes, statues that are coming down and that are being torn down is because of what that person represented, who that person was in history and what they did. They are only that person.

The city of New York has taken on a completely different meaning. It might have been named after the Duke of York, but now it is a melting pot. It has this culture. It stands for something different. It's taken a life of its own and is representing something else in history, the city of New York. Same thing with Yale. I didn't even know about the full name of Yale, but Yale is an institution. It is taken on its own life.

I think that when the name takes on something different, I think that's where you draw the line, changing the name of a city, changing the name of an institution that's been around for so long. But when you have these Confederate statues or these army facilities named after these people, that is all they represent. They were known for being either a traitor. They were known for being a racist, a slave owner, a master in such a brutal way, that is their history and that's all they represent. It's got to go. You know, if you're walking past, I saw this today too. if you're Willie Geis was talking about this on Morning Joe,

if your child, you're walking with your child and you pass a statute of Robert E. Lee and that your child says, who is this? There's only one way to describe who he is as a traitor, as a racist. That's not how you would describe the city of New York. That's not how you would describe Yale. So I feel like there is a line to be drawn there when it has a whole other meaning.

But these figures, that's all they are. They're despicable. They're disgusting. they stand for nothing and represent nothing but hate. So Megan McCain is not making a serious argument. Like what? She's not. Megan McCain is not making a serious argument.

But there are people who think like that. No, there are people that, I mean, I don't, listen, I don't, there are people that use that as a red herring, right? There are people that say, hey, wow, that's what you always hear. Well, how far does it go? well like how far does it go? I will say this. Before I get into what I'm saying,

how do you feel about George Washington? I mean, George Washington's got to go. We got to get them off our money. I mean, I'm not going to change Washington, D.C. or the state of Washington or those names or anything like that.

Again, George Washington University. Yeah. You got, oh, George Washington University. That's a little bit of a tough one. That's why I'll tell you. The reason why I bring up George Washington is this.

He's got to go. George Washington is one of the most dedicated slavers in American history. There was a law that was passed in the north, effectively to abolish slavery. It said, once the slave had worked for you for six months, they were free. Okay. George Washington would have his slaves, like every so often, be like in the fifth month or something like that, the slaves would take a trip below the Mason-Dixon line,

hang out for a day, and then come back up to reset the clock. Okay? Not only that, but yeah, it was involved in slave catching as well. He was dedicated to catching runaway slaves and things like that. George Washington truly,

and with all of his heart, there's a fantastic New York Times article on it, believed in slavery. Yeah. 100%. Okay. So knowing that about him, I have trouble thinking of George Washington as a great man.

I do because when I think of George Washington as a great man, I think of a black person somewhere, a black woman being raped, a black baby being snatched from its mother, a black man having his hands cut off, his eyes gouged out. I think about all of those things. Okay. The problem with all of these things is that America has indulged for far too long in great man history.

In the history of individuals that they say are above reproach and represent some signature and central virtue that in some way. represents all Americans. George Washington never told a lie. Yeah, that's what I was about to say. Like, you know what I'm saying? George Washington never told a lie. All of these guys, right, they were all bigger than life figures

that were able to overcome these huge, huge obstacles to make this utopia that we know as America. The reality is that all of these people were men that engaged in unspeakable brutality against people. And that brutality did not stop when they died. The system that they built existed for hundreds of years after and still exists. And all we seem comfortable or doing is building on to that system that they established in just different and clandestine ways. So here's my thing. To Megah McCain or to anyone else.

I don't give a fuck. I couldn't care less if they changed the name of Yale. I couldn't care less if they changed the name of New York. Am I about to be pressed about the name of New York? No. Is there a difference between the New York and a statue of Andrew Jackson in the middle of the French quarter in New Orleans? Yes.

Yes. There is a difference. One is the name of a city, okay? One is the name of a university. The other was erected specifically as a monument to white supremacy. What you guys have to understand is all of these Confederate statues that were erected. They were not erected like initially following the war. They were erected sometime after Reconstruction when white supremacy and the Ku Klutz Klan

were gaining a foothole in the south. They are not anything to do with the history of the Confederacy. They are shrines and worship temples to the idea of white supremacy. If there's a statue in Memphis of Nathan Bedford Forrest that is the man who created the Ku Klux Klan, I think it's gone now. But when those things, by the way, Forrest Gump's granddad. Okay. Watch Forrest Gump, his granddad. that Forrest Gump, lovable,

black best friend named after Nathan Bedford Forrest. Did not know that. Okay. They do it in the movie. It's a wild thing. It's a wild thing that happens in the movie. It's wild. We just glossed over that. It's wild.

Yeah, we did. Yeah. He says, hey, okay, hey. And his mom, Sally Field, God rest or so, in the movie. In the movie. I was like, just kind of tells a story about it, you know, that people do fucked up things sometimes. I'm just, whatever.

So what I'm saying is, look, I'm not going to get pulled into the red herring argument of that, right? Because you know what? I would tell Megan McCain, who get, fuck it. I don't care. I'm not pulled into her argument, but I think it's just.

It's like what I'm saying is that if you think that I'm going to lose one minute of sleep over the prospect of changing the name of Yale, like, Like, people are like, oh, we're going to blow down Mount Rushmore. I don't give a fuck about Mount Rushmore. That's the thing about black people. We got two bigger, we have bigger things to worry about than whether or not these names are changed. To answer your question, yes, I can see the difference in some things.

But yes, we, at the end of the day, I personally don't care. But I also think that that's, that is black people. We are detached from this country in a way that white, people aren't because of what we've experienced, what our history is in this country. It doesn't represent and mean to us the same thing that it does to them. Like you're collecting. I don't think it means that to them. No, no.

They, yes, yeah. No, no. Not New York, not Yale, but no, those people like Megan McCain, yes. Yo, they cap in. Megan McCain, Megan McCain don't give a fuck about the name of Yale. No, I know that. That's not what I'm saying. Megan McCain is gaslighting us.

No, I know she doesn't care about that. It's the thought of them of you taking away their things. It's the thought of being told what they can and can't do. That's what they care about. That's what I'm saying. No, I agree with you. That's what I mean by that. But that's because you look at this country in a way that we don't.

We're detached from this country in a way that they really do have this pride. There's a certain pride that they have. Not about Yale, not about New York, but the things that she's collecting in her home, like Theodore Roosevelt, because she was upset because they're taking away the statue in New York. So, listen, you guys. Tear it off down.

I mean, you don't have to. Like, you could, like, you know, tear down the Confederate generals. Cool. Don't change that. Listen, I want Americans to understand something. We've never reconciled the history. The history is holding. us back. When I hear you talk about, when I hear you bring up straw man arguments and all of these

things to defend reasons why we shouldn't take down a statue of Robert Lee or Jefferson Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest or Boragard or Stonewall Jackson, when I hear you do all of these jump through all of these hoops, it's a fuck you. Like it's it, it's, we can't like we can't, I can't get to that point with you. I understand what you're really saying. What you really saying is how much do you niggas want? And you know what? I got an answer for you.

We want it all. Like we want every word of the Constitution to apply to us. Yeah. We want every freedom. We want every bit of opportunity and success that is guaranteed to us. don't want to be triggered all the time. Killed by police, we want it all. And we deserve it all.

That's the thing. We don't just want it. We deserve it. We deserve it. I don't have any. That was, I felt you on that. Jesus Christ. You really worked up this.

You really worked up this podcast over one subject for another, but I get it. I get it. Hey, man, nobody, like, Megan McCain is one of those ones that can get to me. I, you know what, I'll be honest with you. I, this is problematic. I respected John McCain. A lot of people did. I respected John McCain.

And at least Megan is honest about it. But like all of this straw man shit, this is the stuff that makes me angry. I don't have time for this. We got really stuff. Like, fuck Yale. Like, you know, you know,

this is what I'll, this is the deal I'll make with Yale. I make a deal with Yale. What's up? This is the deal. I make this deal with Yale. Yale can keep the name. Y'all can keep the name. They got to get their black enrollment up to 25%

by the year 2020, 25% of us in Yale, 25%. And they have to have a black band. Not a black band. All black band. Love it. They don't know what to do with those Ivy League games. Can you see them marching out on the field?

No parking, baby. No parking on a dance floor. I want to hear them play that. I want to hit him play neck. I want to hit and play duggish, ruggish bone, because Southern band be blowing. Like all of that. You know what I'm saying?

Like, Yale, if Yale does that, they can keep the name. Like, empower somebody, Yale. Okay. It is now time for unexpected ally of the week. I just realized that I didn't even think of an unexpected ally of the week. I started to be really controversial with it. Okay, I'm not mad at it. I was going to go, I was going to go with the noose itself.

Please, please. Continue. I was going to go with the noose itself because it got a conversation started, right? You know what I mean? But that's not right because you shouldn't make light of nooses in terms of things like that. But I don't expect that out of the week. Who was your unexpected ally of the week? Did you have one?

I do. Very briefly. Sure. Mary Elizabeth Taylor. Do you know who that is? No. I had no idea who she was either. She was the assistant secretary of state for legislative affairs.

She was the highest ranking African American in the Trump administration. Oh, I heard this. Yes. And I'm reading this. She delivered a stinging rebuke to President Trump's handling. of racial unrest, announcing her resignation and accusing the president of confronting the country's recent upheaval in ways that she said, quote, cut sharply against my core and convictions, end quote. I thought this was powerful because one, I did not know who she was. We all know

that Trump has very little African American representation within his administration. This is someone who has a history of working as an aide. I think she's even worked for Mitch McConnell. and she is deemed in high regard by Mike Pompeo. That's who she worked with. That's who she actually sent her letter of resignation into. So all these people who want to act like Trump is down for black people. This is a person who has worked with him, who is in his administration, who has, and this happened on the heels of him signing the executive order.

It happened. So I'm a little bit behind. I'm giving it to her this week, but this really happened last week. Right after or during that or maybe even that same. day, she decided to resign based on what she's seeing from President Trump and his actions cut to her core, left her position. That says a lot about what President Trump is not doing for black people in this country. She is our ally of the week. Maybe she'll come on over to the other side. Maybe she will. Look, I do have one. I thought about it. John Bolton. John Bolton. John Bolton,

unexpected ally of the week. John Bolton taking Trump to task, man. John Bolton, I feel like John Bolton trying to square up with Trump. But he is in words at least. Yeah. What I will say about John Bolton is we could have used all of this heat during the impeachment hearings, John Bolton. We could have used all of this. I mean, and what he said during impeachment hearings is that if he was subpoenaed, that he did say that. He did say that. But, I mean, there were all kinds of reasons that the Democrats did not want to subpoena him to come testify some of them. But, you know, if, listen, God damn it, all of you people out here that feel like it's your American duty to expose not only the dysfunction, but the incompetence of the president of the United States, please do it before you

got a book to sell. Like, we need you at the point of attack is when we need you. Now, it's good that John Bolton is like, the book is coming out now. Maybe they'll catch wind, catch fire during the summer. I know that the Trump administration is going crazy, trying to stop it, but I don't think they're going to be able to. Yes, a federal judge already, they have already tried to file something and a federal judge denied that. Denied it. But yeah, so, you know, anybody that's having a crisis of conscience, by the way, I think that we're going to see more of these crises, crises of conscience as the president's poll numbers continue to go down, which is something that we're going to talk about next week on higher learning.

But as Trump's boat starts to take on water, you're going to hear from more politicians, more Republican politicians that say, I can no longer be a part of the America that this president has built. Yeah. I want you guys to remember those guys and be able to differentiate between what makes political sense for them and what makes sense for the nation. because a lot of that is not going to have anything to do with what actually is good for America

or the psyche or the morality or the conscience of America, what it's going to have to do with is who they think they can win with politically. That's a good point. Oh, did your dad just call? No, no. I'm not going to say anything towards that. Oh, that's true. Did your dad just call? My dad did not just call.

I know you want him so. He'll come on the show soon enough. Well, now me and him have way more to talk about. like we don't just have to talk like we don't just have to talk about because we talked about this before rachel's dad as a feral judge i want to talk to him about what has been like to be a black feral judge in central texas right that's an incredible accomplishment incredible accomplishment uh yeah like what a what a guy but i also now want to talk about the schism in the lindsay family okay okay like the schism in the Lindsay family. Like, what's going on over at the Lindsay residence? What if your parents don't want you to come home because... Because what?

You know, they're having a good time together. You know what I'm saying? It's like, maybe... I don't know what you're trying to say, but I don't think I like it. I don't think I like it. Maybe they're like, no, baby, tell Rachel to chill for a little while. They got Barry White playing. the whole night is going down.

Well, that's it for us here on Higher Learning Thought Warriors. Thank you so much for joining us for another week. I am Rachel Lindsay. I'm bad lately. Peace. We'll see y'all next week.