Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Latest Mass Shooting in Texas, and ‘Good Moms, Bad Choices’

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to the shooting deaths of five people in Texas and the political fallout of the tragedy (20:18). Then, the internet comes for Brian McKnight for his questionable parenting (31:49). Speaking of parenting, Erica Dickerson and Jamilah Mapp, hosts of the ‘Good Moms, Bad Choices’ podcast join to discuss redefining motherhood (56:35). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Erica Dickerson and Jamilah Mapp Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. We have a guest today. Erica Dickinson, Jamila Mapp. They are from Good Mom's Bad Choices.

They have a new book coming out. The podcast is Good Mom's Bad Choices. The book is a good mom's guide to making bad choices. It's mother empowerment. It's empowerment. It's empowerment for mothers. Yes. I like it.

I like it a lot. You guys got to go buy the book and you guys got to listen to the interview. It's for women, too. It's for women, not just moms. Not just moms. Moms to be. Moms to be. Like in the future?

Like future moms. That would be moms to be. But question, are you a mom to be if you're not pregnant? I consider myself a mom to be. You consider yourself a mom to be? Yeah. So you're a mom to be. But I,

now we're getting into it. So you're a mom to be. You're a mom to be. What does that come with? What does it come with being a mom to be? Not much, fan. I'm asking.

Because you say you consider yourself a mom to be. I plan on being a mother in the future. So I mean, I guess people with child do say I'm mom to be, but they'll say I'm pregnant. I don't know. I'm a mom to be. Whatever.

Fuck it. That's what I say. Wow. Okay. It is not that aggressive. I was just asking, are you a mom to be? Yeah. If you're not, okay, cool. I mean, for me. You want to be your, you're a future mother.

You want to your prospective mother. You got the stuff to do. I gave birth today. Two? I've been constipated. All right. I don't want to go any further than. And so because of the medication. I don't want it.

And it has been really hard. hard figuratively, like literally, it's been really hard. It's like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, really? It's a side effect of some medications that I'm taking. And today was like a real, I had to overcome. I'll just put it to you like that. It made me late. I had to do a Ghost Brothers podcast.

So you induced. I induced. Like, I do the Ghost Brothers podcast and I was like, well, telling them, look, I need 10 minutes. It makes you angry. It does. Like, I, yeah. It's like, why isn't my body like, cooperation?

You can't relax. You know what I mean? You can't do anything like my thumb. Oh man. I feel like I was, I feel like now for the last couple of days, I've probably not been feeling great because of it. But now I feel like totally different. Free.

Free. Lighter. It's go weird too because there's nothing you can do to beat it because I'm taking my Athletic Green. Shout out to everybody out there. Athletic Greens, Athletic Greens, Athletic Greens. Athletic Greens is the best product in the world. it's the best product in the world.

Athletic greens helped me sleep. Athletic grains helped me be regular, you know, before the medication. Athletic greens give me energy, okay? Athletic Greens is great. AG1. Age 1 from Athletic Greens, go get it. Did not pay for that, by the way.

It's just something I take. And I've been taking that plus metamusal, plus I use hemp protein in my smoothies, and still all of that, the medication. Medi Musal. I feel like I see that on a commercial. What is that? You'll know what metamucal is?

It's like fiber. Capsules so that you can, you know, be regular. What did you do this weekend? I saw you and Brian all dressed up. Where did you go? We went to the White House Correspondence dinner. How fantastic! What was that like?

It was fun. You never been? I'm surprised you've been. You don't fucking play me, niggins. I'm not trying to play you. You're like, too, see what I'm saying? Don't play me, niv. I'm a big deal.

I'm surprised. Oh, you never been? It's not like the White House invited me. It's publications. who or networks who purchase the table, and then they invite people to their table. So because you know so many people, I'm saying this is a compliment.

I growl, you don't play me. I'm dead too. Anyway, we went, we had a great time. It was a really cool event. A lot of people, very lax. Everywhere you turn, you're like, oh, this is a politician, this person's on news, this person's a celebrity.

It was pretty cool. Roy Wood Jr. was the host. He was fantastic. I mean, Roy Wood Jr. had a text exchange not too long ago where I texted him and pretended to be somebody completely different. Why? Because he had given me his number. First of all, Roy's. He used to do prank calls and stuff like that.

He handled it so well. He had given me his number a while ago. I forgot to reach out. But then I reached out when I reached out. I was like, why don't I fuck around and see why I can get Roy to do? didn't happen. Roy did such a fucking fantastic job. I've watched this stuff from the correspondence dinner.

So great. I love to see him get that shine. What a funny, relatable, amazing guy. One of those people that, like, I love to see do well because he's so good at what he does. And his mom was there. And he, like, comes from a family of activists, so to have his mom there and it was like

a beautiful moment. Like, they showed her in the crowd and I was like, oh, this is, I was just excited because I'm a fan of him from a distance. So I was just excited to see him get to do it in that way. Because I can't remember whose radio show he was on. Steve Harvey or Ricky Smiley, one of the two. Anyways, he used to listen to it. So he used to come on.

But to see him do that and bring his mom there was really nice. Biden was funny too. You saw Biden's? He was funny there? I mean, I didn't meet him in person. Not that special. Did you? But he was funny? He was funny. What did he say? What do you say? No. I mean, he joked about his age.

He joked about, yeah. Like, he played into it. He joked about Tucker Carlson. Okay. And jokes about the crime bill? No jokes about the crime bill. Okay, cool. No jokes about the crime bill. That would be funny.

If I'm Biden, I just say fuck it. No, no, he's in a re-election year. Maybe next, once he gets reelected, then he'll probably, then he can do fucking stuff. If I'm Biden, I just say fuck it. No. If I'm buying, I walk up there and I go, Roy Wood Jr., ladies and gentlemen, that's great. The fact that he's able to stand up here. and deliver that type of comedy to you guys

tells me that the crime bill wasn't wholly effective. We missed something. Wow. That I would give that. Wow. Give him a little sound effect, dying. I would give that joke right there.

That's the kind of shit I would do. Fuck it. You know what I mean? Do you know how I realized that you guys were at the correspondence there? How? Brian posted in his tuxedo. Oh.

I was leaving the gym when I saw the post of it. Miss Tuxedo, I turned right the fuck around, went back in. You think that's a fucking joke? I'm not playing at all. And did what? And I said, you think I'm playing with you? I'm not even bull.

I'm like, I got some more in me. I was like, I literally looked out. I was like, nah, this nigga look like James Bond. No, I turned around. I went back in. I was like, I got some more in me. You didn't give it all. You didn't give it all, big fella.

What is wrong with you? He looked great. We had a good time. I ran a couple people who said they know you. Who? Oh, you know I met for the first time? Sunny Austin. Oh, Sunny.

Sunny's great. And I never, because I always go when she's gone. Right. So I never met her. She's like, we've never met. And I was like, no, I would remember it. Right. We had a good conversation.

I was like, yeah, you know, I do a podcast. I know you're friendly with Van. She was like, oh, I listen to some episodes. Sunny's great. Sunny's great. I'm glad you guys got a chance to meet, you know? Because, like, they could try to pitch you guys against one another. I don't think anybody's trying to do that.

They might. No. They might. So who else did you meet that now? Who else. John? John who? Legend.

Oh. John's a great guy. He's a great people. Okay? He's a great people and you hung out with them. Did you guys dance? He's in my fantasy football league. Oh, yeah, you did.

You did tell me this. And he's a big football fan. John Legend knows he knows football. He's a college football fan. Real football fan. To me, you're not like a real football fan. the real football fan unless you care about college football. I say that straight up.

Like in general? If you don't care about college football at all. Care. Key word. To me, you're not that real level football fan. I don't look at you different. I don't care. I know as mad niggas is going to be like,

I'm from New York. I'm like the Giants. You know what I'm saying? From Bronx. We don't care about that college. It's not real. You know what I'm saying? It's not real, you know?

It's like where I'm from, care about football all the way down. Of course. Top to the bottom. It's different. If I'm home, when I go home, I'll go home in the Memorial game. I'll go to the South Baton Rouge Rams game. That's the kids team.

You know, that's the kids, South Baton Rouge Rams. I'll go to the kids game. Okay. Shout out Chris Tooms. Shout out everybody over there involved. Because that's what people, Michael Clayton, Marcus Spears, South Baton Rouge Rams. We grow up early from right there. I mean, I'm from Texas.

We do too. I mean, Louisiana's better than Texas football. Fan. Facts. No, it's not. It's absolutely facts. Louisiana is better. Texas is a bigger state.

Per capita, Louisiana puts more people in the NFL than any other states. That's facts. You guys are bigger. Y'all got a lot of white boys. And that's cool. They play quarterback. They throw the ball around. But overall, Louisiana is better for football.

It's not even quarterbacks that you can just hype up. Oh, no. Texas got mad quarterbacks. No, but we got black players that do. You're like, you got white boys. We don't put on me. I don't have a laptop. I'm not even going to challenge you on the statistic right now,

but don't act like Texas is not synonymous with football. Texas is synonymous with football because of hype. You know what I mean? Like hype. But I'll tell you straight up, Louisiana, it's a better, it's overall we have a higher, you know what I'm saying? Alabama. Okay.

I got some statistics. What? I got some numbers. I'm looking at now. No. I want to hear from. Well, okay, go ahead. Well, I guess the source matters.

I'm on actionnetwork.com. And they say that Texas has 211 active NFL players, and Louisiana has 102. It's, Donnie, see, this is my problem. Thank you, Donnie. Thank you. Okay, Donnie, hold on for a second. This is my problem. This is my problem.

Donnie, how many people are in Texas? Okay, let me find the numbers. Hold on. It's more than Louisiana. So Texas has 29 million people in the state. Now, how many people are in Louisiana?

7 million people. Listen. So obviously the gross numbers, they're going to have more people. That's why you have to use per capita. Okay. Get the statistics to fit your narrative. We got more players in the NFL.

You got! I don't care that we have 29 million people in Texas. This is my problem with... My point is that Texas is synonymous with football. Texas is synonymous with football because... So why we have more people? Texas is synonymous with football

because Texas does have a very strong football culture. That's facts. I'm not even joking about it. That's facts. What I'm telling you right now is that Louisiana produces more players

per capita. And to me, better players than Texas. So you can keep your opinions to yourself. That's fine. What's the best quarterback ever from Texas? that ever came from Texas. Oh, what's the best quarterback that ever came from Louisiana? Payton Man.

What's the best running back? Oh, is that what he was born? Yeah, he's from New Orleans. He's a fake-ass Louisiana, but one all the same. Louisiana. Marshall Falk. Okay? Right?

Even right now, currently in the lead. Devonty Smith, Louisiana. O'Dell Beckham Jr., Louisiana. Jamar Chase, Louisiana. Justin Jefferson. Louisiana. Like I can just continue to go on up and down.

Winter Four Nett, Louisiana. Like I could just keep going. Up and down the list, we do our thing. And we don't get credit because Texas got 30 million people in it. You get credit. Nobody's denying the good football or not saying good football players

don't come from Louisiana. We just have more. See, he's got more people. You know what? I'm so annoyed now. This whole thing has bothered me. Anyways, we'll go back to the White House Corresponding. It was great.

You liked it. You know, I was really excited to see. Who? Jonathan Lemire. I watched Morning Joe every morning. I didn't see Joe Scarbo, but I was like, Jonathan Lamere. You like Morning Joe? I do.

It's a good show. I enjoy it. But I mean, everybody was there. Who else? Give me somebody else. I met John Fetterman and his wife. I met the two Justins. They were there?

They were there. protesting outside. Yeah, but I didn't see for what. I kept my head down. They were protesting outside. I just kept walking. I think the environment. I saw that they were protesting outside.

They were protesting. I just kept... Wait a minute. So the Justin's protested, then they came inside? No. Oh, wait. They were protesting. Yeah.

One of the Justin's was outside. Oh, there were protesters. Oh, one of the Justin's was outside protesting. Or at least, I feel like he joined, no, he, Justin Pearson joins White House correspondence dinner protests. They were calling for a climate fight for justice.

So what I didn't realize was that he joined the protests, joined the protest, then went inside. Yeah, I met him both. If that's not a motherfucking politician. I'm sorry, man. If that's not a motherfucking politician right there,

I thought that he was, I thought that he showed up and protested, No. And then... Which one is that? With the Afro or the ponytail? That's Dr. Martin Luther King Joe. He was there with his wife.

Yeah. Sorry to him. I like him. I took pictures with both. I said, we talk about you on our podcast. Love for you to have you come on. You know, appreciate the work you do. I did the whole thing.

I was excited to meet the Justin's. They both were there. They both. They both were there. They both, but I'm saying they both protest. Okay. And then they called for and then they went inside. And they pulled out their tickets and they went inside.

You know, I guess. if you think about it deeper, maybe that's what you want, know for some reason it doesn't feel right. It feels like either you protest outside, you go to the dinner. It doesn't feel like you do both. But what was the protest about? Climate justice.

They want climate shit now. I think it would depend on what they were. If the protest was directly tied to what was happening inside the dinner, then it would feel wrong. but it really wasn't. No, no. They're calling out President Biden over certain things that he's done

and certain decisions that he's made and they're asking him to do things and they're asking him to be sort of a more they're asking for more direct action on climate. I don't think that thing. I don't think it's bad that they went inside because the whole correspondent center is about celebrating the First Amendment

and celebrating journalists, not necessarily particularly Biden. Biden is there. He speaks. He does, he doesn't. jokes, he talks about certain things in regards to, you know, freedom of press, freedom of speech. But then if they went out and protested and then they came inside, I mean, I don't think, I don't think it discredits anything that they... I don't think it discreds anything.

I think ideally for me, it's better if there's somebody protesting and somebody inside and those people are sympathetic. up. I, for some reason, would want two people there instead of somebody that protests, then goes inside. I think this is an interesting thought exercise, just because it seems to me that you kind of can't have it both ways there. I think you can because it's impactful, because we're talking about it right now. They were there. I was there, and I didn't know what they were protesting. Now we're talking about them being there and the fact they protested

and what they were protesting about. Their presence alone to that protest brings more attention to it. And then they go inside and I'm sure they were talking about it to people. You know, so I don't know if that's typically done by people who attend the

Correspondent's dinner. They accused Biden of ecocide. And I'm looking at that right now. Look, here's a I get it in the perfect world. Yes? I understand it. It's interesting to me whenever politicians try to become activists. I don't think that politicians make good activists. I think they make very poor activists.

I think politics itself, there are too many platitudes, too many deals, too many things that you have to do in order to be effective in that arena that are always going to water down and depower. any activism that you would do? Politicians don't make good activists. Can an activist make a good politician? Once an activist becomes a politician, they're now a politician and not an activist. I think that activists and politicians should work together,

not be one and the same. Gotcha. So as, you know, Dr. King can push LBJ to pass things, to talk about things, to do different things. He can be a part of that political process. But the moment that you become the president and the moment that you run for office, there are a lot of things that are going to take the way the purity of a message that you should have.

So that's all I'm saying. But look, hey, those guys are great. I love them. Yes, I'm excited to see them. Good to see them both. And, you know, they're not in a position right now to see the people outside talking about it and then just pass them up. They got to stop outside and say something. All right.

Another discussion. Also, Ayanna Presley. I just want to say shout out to her. Ayanna Presley was there. Congresswoman. I give her her respect. I mean, what did you guys? Did you talk to her?

Yeah, she saw me. She introduced herself. I go, I know exactly who you are. Oh, she introduced yourself to you? I was like, I know who you are. Rachel, can be okay. I was like, are you kidding me? Do you ever, you feel like you downplay your litness?

You try to act like you're not lit sometimes. I don't, no, because I don't, I don't, it was different. I wasn't expecting that because I, you know, like I thought I was like, are you kidding me? I love the squad. Donnie. No, I don't. I don't, I'm not. Is Donnie there?

Yeah. What's up? Is Rachel lit? Oh, yeah. Yeah. What the hell? Don't know. Like, Rachel.

That's a word I don't even use. That's a word I don't use. That's not in my vocabulary, but I agree with you. I agree with you. Thank you, Donnie. You're redeemed for the horrible Texas Louisiana situation. Hey, man. Facts.

You've come back. Just numbers. Like, does Rachel try to downplay how lit she is? Yes. Humility is cool, though, too. That's also dope. So those are two, though, things. I just never walk into a space and assume people know who I am, ever.

You want a Bachelorette? People know you. Maybe I just don't want people to know me from a Bachelorette. You know that you're the Jackie Robinson of ABC. Stop. I think Zway said I was the Rosa Parks. And I was like, please stop. All right.

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Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. All right, Texas man, fatally shoots. five neighbors after he was asked to stop firing in his yard. This happened Saturday morning. One of the neighbors asked him to stop firing rounds in his yard because of the noise. Francisco Oropeza is the man's name. He fled to scene and is not in custody as of this recording. The manhunt is ongoing.

He was firing a 223 chambered AR-15 style rifle. He was asked to stop firing it because it was last. out. He was in his yard doing it. And apparently, after that, he walked into his neighbor's house and killed five people, shot them all in the head. And when I say killed five people, we're talking about women, children, ages 25, 21, 31, 18, and nine, all from Honduras. Rachel, this story broke, I think, probably while you were in D.C. Where are your thoughts? I mean, here we are talking about it again.

It's like gun culture is American culture. Gun violence is American culture. It's so embedded in our society that as sure is you're going to see, I don't know, a car wreck on the freeway, you're going to hear about some type of mass shooting or gun violence. And it's so unique to the United States. And like, you know, we can get on here and we can discuss like, you know, why things are the way that they are or why America is so, it's such a bigger problem for America than any other country in this world.

We can do all that. We can talk about like what the NRA says and why it's not. it's not a people problem. It's a mental health problem. Like, and you can go back and forth with these statistics, but the issue is that the way that we look at civilians possessing guns and how ingrained that is in our culture, in our politics, and even in our laws, that this is our reality,

and this is what we come to expect. It's just you're going to wake up each day and, you know, like dread looking at the alert on your phone of another mass shooting. and nothing's changing. And I don't, at this point, nothing is going to change. It's almost like how do you, how do you survive and function in this culture? And I don't know what that is, especially when the shootings are so random, knocking on the wrong door, pulling into the wrong driveway, knocking on the wrong car, car door,

asking your neighbor to stop shooting, going to a birthday party, a girl, grocery store, a church, I mean, a mall, a movie theater. It's how, how do you prevent it? Right. How do you protect yourself at this point? And the answer is not everybody strapped up in carrying their own gun. That's not the answer. Um, so obviously this was going to be, uh, politicized.

And it was by Governor Greg Abbott of Texas. Um, he called the victims here. illegal immigrants. I've announced a 50K reward from the info on the criminal who killed five illegal immigrants today. I continue working with the state, with state and local officials to ensure they have all available resources to respond to this horrific crime. Our hearts go out to the families and love one of the five victims that were taking in this senseless act of tragedy. The governor's office has walked that statement back since the immigration status of various members of the family has been found out

and the governor was wrong about parts of what he said and after pressure from different groups they've walked that back just a little bit. And of course, the shooter in this case, it's been wildly discussed that this gentleman has been deported a couple of times and is in the country illegally. And has been arrested before.

has been arrested before for DUIs. ICE had deported him a couple of different times, a couple of different years. He had been sentenced to a driving while intoxicated in January 2012. And then in January 16, 2016, he was deported in September 2009. He was deported a couple of times.

Here's the thing. So that opens us up to be volleyed around as a political football, like a family slaughtered because they dare to ask somebody to stop shooting the AR-15 in their front yard. So what's going to be talked about now is, the fact that this guy should have never been in the United States in the first place, the fact that maybe the parts of the family shouldn't have been in the United States in the first place. So the right is going to have you believe that there shouldn't have been victim, there shouldn't have been a shooter in their perfect,

um, ethnically clean world. You wouldn't have had these people in the country. And that, to me, ignores one huge fact. Let's say everyone here is undocumented. Just for the sake of argument. They're not. Okay? They're not.

Um, and this guy's status as to how he got in the country initially is, is still up for debate. there's still information coming out. The question would be if this is a person to shoot it with a criminal record

that had been deported a couple of different times by ICE that seems to have a pretty well-documented drinking problem, how did they get an AR-15? Right.

And that's the only question that If anybody cares about what's going on here, we'll ask. It's the only question. It's not where he came from. It's not where they came from. It's how somebody that so obviously is unqualified to have a gun like that. It's how they got it.

Because I want you to remember for everyone, in the majority of these cases that we're talking about, the first thing that you hear is the gun was obtained legally. And that's important for people to say because they want people to know the ease of access to getting a weapon like that. To be coming up. People that are talking about

trying to stem the tide in terms of gun violence and mass shootings, what the most sensible of those people are talking about are making sure that people that have a proclivity to violence or that are prone to it can't access the most dangerous weapons that they can get in their hands. And for a citizen like this guy

who is obviously irresponsible, and it seems at least, by looking at this right now, DUI is a felony, is it not? I think so, yeah, yeah. Okay, it seems to be a felon, like how he would get his hands on the gun. and we can sort of ask a bunch of different questions

and kind of throw it out there in all kinds of different ways. Could have been somebody else's gun. Did he, is it somebody who he was living with, did they have the gun? Like how did he, the gun was familiar enough to him

that this wasn't the first time that they had had issues with him shooting it. It seemed to be a weapon that he knew how to use it seemed to be a weapon that he had in his possession that seems to be his rifle. And that in of itself is the entire problem with what we're discussing.

There's two different conversations to be had. One is about people, the other one is about guns. Obviously, there's a point in which those two conversations intersect. Of course there is. Sure. But we have to have one first. And that's just, that's the way that it is. We have to have one first.

And the first conversation we have to have is about the guns. Right. DWI is a misdemeanor for the first of Pence in Texas. WI is a misdemeanor. But that's the whole purpose. You're absolutely right. And these politicians know that the conversation should first be about guns, which is why that tweet came from Greg Abbott.

Greg Abbott purposely tweeted that they were illegal because that was his way of showing that it was trying to show that it was a people problem rather than actual guns. So before you start the conversation of guns are an issue, he obtained this gun illegally, he never should have had it, all of that, everything that you just laid out, he's trying to put first the fact that this person should have never had the gun. The person who pulled the trigger is the problem,

not the guns. And that's the dance that we're going to continue to see whenever we come, we're faced with one of these mass shootings. It's a dance between the two. And they'll never put the guns first because it's too ingrained in our society. I mean, the amount of, the number of guns that exist in the United States, I believe I read a statistic is more, more, more, they're more guns than people, right? Of course. More guns than people in the United States. And the fact, the ones that you can get, And that's not even counting the black market ones, which most likely is how this guy obtained it. So I think there's another reason why Governor Abbott

described the victims the way he did. I think it was to, I think it was intimated to people that they didn't have to worry about it as much. It was to what? I personally think that the only reason why you say illegal immigrants were shot is to dog whistle to people that this is not one that you have to be concerned about. You have to care about, right. No, I can't talk to devalue their life.

Yeah. Absolutely. That too. Yeah. Well, you know, I would say that we're going to keep going through this until we decide that we're going to do something about it, but we're not. we're not. We're going to push the round by the NRA.

We're going to have conversations in good faith until we're good faith ourselves right into getting shot in the fucking face. That's the way that it goes. All right. White families.

What's your feeling? What's your feeling of like white families? You're going to have to give me more. It's like a white family, you know? Like a black man, white family? What's your, all this family is like white?

Maybe not even white, but they just like. I'm going to, I'm not. I need more. A black man and a white family. Just before we even get into white, black man, white family,

all he's black, then all of his relatives are like white or like... By marriage? Latino. Yeah, about, you know, yeah, he loves them. He loves them more than he loves his other kids. Oh, he loves them more. Yeah, that's what it seems like.

Well, that's a problem. You feel like that's a problem? It's just, why are you loving one kid more than the other? You don't feel like people do that? I don't think people are outspoken. spoken about me. I think parents have their favorites, but I don't think that they say it out loud

and if they do, they shouldn't. Brian McKnight seemingly has told his black family that he is not coming back at one. This niggas never coming back. Okay.

It seems as if what is wrong. You know what I mean? He's keeping his black family on the down low. because he's never felt this way as he feels right now about his new non-black family.

All right? The people are mad. He's posted something on Instagram. It shows his stepdaughter Julia. She's posing in front of a car that he and his wife gave her for her birthday

and that bitch is crazy. That bitch is crazy. Julia got like a, what is it, a BMW or a Mercedes or something? That bitch is fucking crazy. I saw Julia driving that shot to Julia, man. And under it, he said, I couldn't ask for a better daughter than you. Happy birthday to the best daughter. Love you, a zillion.

Happy birthday to the best daughter. Love you a zillion. He has three biological children from previous relationships. Ryan Jr., Brianna, and Nico. His second wife is Dr. Lelani Mendoza. met her in 2014. She has two children from a previous relationship.

Julia and Jack, they have since had a son, Brian Jr. So this nigga has two Brian Jrs. This nigga had a Brian Jr. before. This is some nasty work. I'm sorry, bro. I got to blame the doctor as well in this.

This nigga had two Brian Jr. He had two Brian Jr. before. He had Brian Jr. before. He got another Brian Jr., he took a fucking mulligan. He said the first one didn't count. And so, you know, it seems like he's ignoring his... Seems. It seems like he's ignoring his biological children.

And people are mad because there's a racial component here. It don't matter about the racial component. They should just be mad, period. If he did this with another black woman, sure, that's a problem as well. But of course, people are saying, well, it seems like you don't care about your kids because they're black and now you've moved on to this. I'm not sure her ethnicity. You've moved on to a non-black woman and you seem to very very. value her, your stepchildren and the child that you've made with her more than your other

three biological children with a black woman. What happened to Brian McKnight? Or has he always been like this? But you mean what happened to him? This isn't the first time that he's been accused of abandoning his children. It's like every couple of years we go through this with Brian McKnight. He says he does something outrageous where it's like, what the fuck is wrong with Brian McKnight?

I never knew this. Everybody has all of these issues with Brian McKnight. I only knew him as a tall dude with a decent jump shot, actually a good jump shot, who has a velvety voice. I never knew there was all of these issues with Brian McKnight. But people are mad, man. Like I'd say in the two,

once he divorced his wife and then he was making these songs with these titles, people had issues with him. He had, so the doctor that he's married to right now, they had a child, they were pregnant before, and they lost that child. And this is what he wrote. for the very first time in my life, I got to experience what it was like

to want to and plan to have a child made from love. And even though he was separated from us too soon, I wouldn't trade that gift you gave me for anything in the whole world. I've never been, he goes on to say, I've never been prouder in my life than I am right now being the father

to our three incredible children. So that was prior to this moment. So he has a history of ignoring the first three children basically saying he did not want them

or plan to have them and they were not made from love. Brian's words. Yeah. I can't listen to a Brian McKnight song to say. You're all Brian McKnight because of this? I've been off him though.

Because I knew he was already like this. But in what song did he ever say that he was like a great dad? It's not even not. I don't even want to support. I can't feel his music the same way, just knowing that he's this deadbeat father. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at the,

I'm looking at, you know, the song titles here from Brian McKnight. Which album? Just all of them. Brian McKnight is a great artist. What I'm wondering about is this, because everybody's upset. And obviously, guys, there's sometimes something that men do with their second family that's fucked up. We know this. It went bad with mama and then like the second family is like, oh my God, this was when I was on top and I get to choose all of this stuff. And you just wonder

like what somebody is thinking. Like how your children are supposed to feel when they say, hey, this is man I have love and it was planned and all of that. But then with this one, just a visual, I don't give a fuck what nobody say. That's funny as fuck. It's funny as fuck to see Brian McKnight looking like a six foot five California raising standing next to his family you know what I mean and talking about

yo this is all my family you know it's a bunch of motherfucking black people out there going yo what the fuck is my dad it's just I don't give a fuck when nobody say there's some deep deep deep down because look I would never even want to My thing is this

I wouldn't even want to come off that way But I wouldn't even want people to think It's because you care I wouldn't want to even come off that way To me this might seem like a sketch He's got to look crazy He does not care This was it what happened to him

So in 2019 When people were on him Okay, they've been on him He's been exposed, he's been out there He put out a video So if you thought that was bad, And he said, it was important to let you guys know and set the record straight. These kids are 30 and 27.

Not 12. It's time for grown men to be grown men. And I'm sorry that tough love happens to be this way. And I do wish them the best. Wow. He does not care. He doesn't care. So, I mean, what's the point of that?

What's the point? The point is that your kids get to a certain age and then they're not your kids no more? Yeah, like they're grown men. like, but he doesn't even acknowledge it. That doesn't mean that that's what's so messed up about this. Okay, we get that they're adults and they're grown, but does that mean that you stop acknowledging your kids after they get past a certain age?

Yeah. No, you don't. Man. Brian, if he's trying to make another album, record sales, well, he did recently have an album because people were tripping about the type of his lyrics. Yeah. Look, I don't know, man.

You know what I feel like, really? Like, I wish I didn't notice. See, it affects you. It affects you. It's just, there's something that's happening. The internet, I'm serious. The internet is extending our knowledge of celebrities to a point to where they can't help

but do some really fucked up crazy shit. Okay, that's not what this is. What I'm saying is that like there used to be a point and I'm just throwing this out there. It used to be a point to where somebody was famous and then one day it was like, oh, what happened to them? And like you never saw them unless it was like BET, where are they now? Or if, you know, Motown 35 with Brian McKnight and he comes out and then he sings never felt this way and then it's gone. And then you see in the crowd this new family clapping and you go, what the fuck? oh, they must have got a divorce and you didn't know.

But now, because of Instagram, because of Twitter, because of all of this stuff, all of the fucked up parts of these people's lives, it just continuously comes out. And then it's another person that you got to look at their discography crazy. And I'm not saying that you, obviously, I will still listen to Brian McKnight if I want to listen to Brian McKnight. He's a bad dad or he's a fucked up dad or whatever. it's like whatever. That's not the line for me. But I'm saying it's just like, there was a time where people were famous for a while and then they just like went away. Sure. And now because they're not going away, I feel like we know too much about everybody.

Everybody keeps going on. We do. I understand what you're saying, but that is not the case with Brian. It's not like that somebody dug up some old tweets. This man is outwardly presenting himself to the world as a deadbeat dad and doesn't care. But if this were 95, it would be no way for him. to do that. If this were 95... He would be doing it in private. He would be doing it. His kids would still be suffering. He'd still be the same terrible father that he

is to more than half of his children. But we just wouldn't know about it. Is that better? So we would still be buying his record. It's better for me. We'd still be... Okay, so ignorance is bliss to you when it comes to your favorite celebrity. We got it. It's better for

me. It's better for me because I look at him totally different now and it's just like, you know, but I don't even need Barman out. You know what? I've been listening to. Maxwell. H-Town. Okay. I've been listening to They like it slow. Coming by that they're going to nice and slow. Don't you know they like slow? Like if you listen to the chorus and that song, I've been listening to They Like a Slow. Just that song? Oh my God, man. Like I mean, I'm from Texas. I'm familiar with the H-Town.

I've been listening to They Like a Slow and he talks about in the song, how you're supposed to make love slowly to your lady. I tell you straight up right now, you R&B niggas out there, y'all didn't fell way to fuck off. I'm sorry. I listen to, so look,

bring one of your R&B friends to come on and contest this morning. The R&B niggas out here just straight up, y'all don't fell way to fuck off. I listen to it. They like it slow this morning. I listen to knocking the boots this morning. What kind of mood did you wake up in? I listened to Week by SWV.

I listen to these motherfuckers. records, right? H-Town is fantastic. Fantastic. No one would consider H-Town as one of the pioneering groups. They have the depth too soon.

I understand that. But what I'm saying is H-Town is just infinitely better than most of the motherfuckers putting R&B out right now. I'm just saying. Oh, right now. I go back and I listen to H-Town right now

and I listen to them seeing and they were a hit group. And they're better than, like, to meet anybody out that's out right now doing R&D. H-Town is one of the first things that Brian and I connected on. Brian like H-Town? Loves H-Town. I bet he does. Nice.

They're going by that angle. Donnie ever heard that shit? Nice and slow. They like it slow? Yeah. I like that. And that, uh, emotion and song. Part-time lover.

Oh, yeah. What? Emotions. Oh, how did I forget about emotions? Good job, Donnie. Look. you want to go fast you want to go fast? No, you got to go slow

now watch watch when it comes in when it comes in it's so perfect because you're going to get you in the mood watch fast slow I'm telling you man that shit is that's that's the R&B that we need Donnie hit the nail on the head though with emotions what because we were out there singing them ages

now that I'm not to play emotions. Play emotions. Emotions by H-Town? You don't know it? I don't know emotions. Donnie. I don't know emotions by H-Mot. Emotions make you cry some time.

I don't know that. I don't know that. And now that I'm 19. I only know a couple of H-town songs. These are the songs that I know. Well, you're part of the problem. No. You ain't listening to all of H-town.

You're going to throw it out there. You better know H-town. I'm listening to knocking the boots, a thin line between love and hate. Emotions might be one of their biggest hits. Let me see. Maybe do I know this one? Do I know this joint? Oh, I do know this joint.

It's a gospel joint. It's kind of like a gospel song. I know this song. But this one is not on the level of what they like as well. Come on. Y'all, y'all not fucking with H-Town, period. Like, R&B niggas today. Fuck with, y'all not fucking with H-Town.

I'm sorry. Y'all not fucking with H-Town. Nice and slow. They like it slow. The nicest little is Usher. Jack Harlow says he's the hardest white boy after Eminem

on a new song. I can't believe we're covering this. Actually, you know what? I don't really give a fuck about this. If Jack says that, that's true. Is that how you do? I'm trying,

like, I tried to, you know, we're light on political topics since Monday. If Jack says that, that's facts. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think that.

was taken out of context when you listen to the whole thing. But that's just me. I think he said he was striving to be. I don't think he said that he actually is. If you're Jack Harlow, why would you be striving to be the hardest whiteboard after Eminem? Why don't you strive to be the hardest whiteboard, period? I think he's just knowing that he won't be better than Eminem.

You don't think there's any way that Jack Harlow could be better than Eminem. No. The Root said, and I had to close this because this made me laugh. They said, even though Jack Harlow will never have bars, the one thing he will always have is the audacity. God damn. That was the first fit into the article.

I said, oh my God, that was ruthless. Can I ask a question? What made people just turn on Jack Harlow? Okay. Because Jack Harlow, because the Jack Harlow backlash, the sort of, we're not fucking with Jack Harlow thing,

came quick. It did. And I feel like something happened. what was it the kfc deal or probably brandy it can't be no no no it was before that it's almost like when he changed his image because you know like he he didn't

look at what jack harlowe was like when he started to now so i don't know if people changed on them i don't know but i agree with you i don't like black people are not fucking with jack harlowe right now but when did it happen because i don't know if i would say that black people aren't fucking with jack harlowe i would think A lot of black media seems to not be black media. And this is what I think happens with that.

I think that to be a white rapper, because we've seen this before, to be a white rapper, your shit has to be so undeniable. Like, your shit has to be so undeniable. Like, America doesn't really accept rampant mediocrity from white rappers.

Because, like, that's the only time they don't say except mediocrity. Mediocrine from my phone. Because think about it. You come on, your Maclemore, you're coming on, you're doing your thing. Maclemore. God, I don't consider him a rapper, but okay. Maclemore is definitely your rapper.

I just, I know. I know because of the Grammy, but I just think of him as pop. I mean, he's whatever. So if you come up and you do your thing and then like you don't have another level or another gear, people would be like, we got mediocre black niggas. Like, we got mediocre black rappers. Why do we need a mediocre white rapper? And I'm not saying Jack Harlow is mediocre

about any stretch of imagination. I don't think he is either. But I think a lot of people think that he is. And it just, because it seemed like the hate came out of nowhere. And he can't catch a break because he's got this new song and this is where he has the lyric. And then he also has, I don't know if it's on this song or another song where he's talking about cultural appropriation.

And he's calling out white kids in the suburbs. And they're like, that's you. What you don't get is you're talking about yourself. And I'm like, damn, Jack Harlow can't catch a break. This is black media talking. Is it cultural appropriation just to rap? I don't think so. I don't think so either.

I don't think so. I think if you become, if you're like an Iggy Azalea where you don't talk anything like that. And then your, so your rap is also the way that you wrap. You're trying to sound like what you think is black and your whole image is black. She's cultural appropriation. Let's call Mouse.

Mouse Jones. noted New York podcaster, someone who always has a lot of things to say about white rappers in the culture. Let's call Mouse Jones. Ask what he thinks about Jack Harlow first. What Mouse thinks about Jack Harlow. Let's call Mouse.

Man, what's probably? Mouse, you are on higher learning right now. I'm on higher learning? Yes. Yes, you're on higher learning right now because we have to ask you, we're talking about Jack Harlow. I needed to know what Miles, noted fan of white rappers,

thinks about Jack Harlow. Miles, what's up? I don't think about Jack Harlow at all. He does not come across any playlist of mine. I think his output, I think his outputtings get lazier and lazier by the project, especially his last one. He didn't anybody asked for it. He still gave us that wacky.

That's why they're doing. God damn. Yeah, I think Jack Hollow is the white boy at the moment. It is no need for rappers to get concerned

or hip hop at large to be concerned and think there's a white invasion. He's just the current white rapper who will move along in about two more projects and then he'll be doing

acting or like he'll be getting credited for like stepping away from hip hop and doing some weird as other music. But, you know, it's the kid to rock, the kid to rock,

the, what's the kid's name now? Post him alone. Or you, it's just a matter of time before he'd blend his hip-hop and finish this other thing and then try to keep them hip-hop. And so it's like lazy. Mouse.

I post him along a day. Hi, Miles. Rachel. Hi, Rachel. Hi. So we were trying to figure out when it seems like, because I feel like with Jack Harlow first, came out, people were really fucking

with him. Miles loved him. And then... Mouse did not. Yes, you did. And it seems as of recent that, I would say in the last year, that black media is kind of really off Jack Harlow, not giving him a break.

Like, everything that he does, they're scrutinizing. I think, and I just looked this up, it seems like he was after he got that nomination at the BET Awards. When did it happen? When do you think it happened? Or do you think that black people were never really on Jack Harlow? Yeah, I don't think, yeah, black people were never on Jack Haller.

Black people aren't the reason that Jack Hall of Pop, he, that was, you know, he got my, we might have been the reason, or Black people might have been the reason he got a few quote-unquote cultural looks, but Jack Haller wasn't, he was never being championed by black people. He had the Tyler Hero record, which is an old, which is an old to another white person. That record sucks. He had to watch. He had the Was Popper remixed.

I like that. Then, you know, drama, drama signed him. Drama uses, drama scene, an opportunity to make some money. Drama said, this will work.

He was probably, I don't know how, but he was probably impressed by whatever mediocre talent that Jack Hall was possesses. And then he used his, you know, Rolodex to get him some big looks.

And, you know, that's a huge, he's over there at Atlantic. That's an unlimited production budget. So he's going to get the Gwynch Stefani remixes, and he's going to get the Farrell samples cleared and all that shit for that second album. That was super lazy.

I will say there's like two or three songs that I do like on that second project. But yeah, other than that, he's just lazy. And I think he's giving his best, but it's just lazy. Yeah. Miles, who's the greatest, who is the best white rapper ever? Who's the best white rapper ever? who's the best white rapper ever.

Michael Jackson. Get the fuck off my phone, nigga. Bye. Smouse Jones. You'll hear me on this podcast next week. I'll be in New York. All right. You know, shout out to drama, man.

Shout out to generation now. I have no issues with Jack Harlow. You know, it's not for me, but I see why people like it, Jack, a rap. You know, it's just, you know, people not fucking with it no more. It seems to be over. People are looking for reasons to hate. Once people start looking for reasons,

day, it gets hard to overcome. Yeah. I was just thinking, too, about the collaborations that he's had with other rappers, and if that's the reason that, you know, he came on so fast too. But I'm trying to think of, like, who else has he rapped with other than Lil Nas X? Drake. Drake. The Lil Nas' feature was dope. Absolutely Drake.

I think it was the BET Awards. I think that the hate for Jack Harlow is in this place. Is the BETT words. Even Nas tweeted something and he deleted it. People were upset that he got nominated for that. They remember Maclemore, even though that was the grandmas. and they didn't want that to happen again. I think that's when people turned on him.

I personally don't think that you should be able to be nominated for a BET Award if you aren't black. So I really think that's when people turned. That was a year ago, two years ago? And I'll be... I remember Lil Nas X was nominated? Right. And so people were like, what fuck? To me, I think that BET Awards for black people.

And look, people are going to be like, oh, it's like whatever, whatever. Let me just keep it all the way real. I'm a gatekeeper. Gate keep. You got to gatekeep your culture because if you don't gatekeep your culture, then the gates open up and anybody can run in. And that's what happens.

To me, I wouldn't, I don't think that there should be white people nominated for BET Awards. I don't give them a fuck if they made the hardest hip-hop shit ever. They're going to win all the other awards. They're going to give them all kinds of shit. BET Awards should be a place where like a little Zane has a chance. You know, like the beat, I'm serious.

Talking about people we haven't heard from. Look, like, to me, like, you have to keep the BET Awards pure because that's where some of the artists that aren't going to get recognition are going to be able to go to get recognition. I don't care. Okay. All right. On the other side is break.

Erica Dickerson and Jamila Map, Good Mom's Bad Choices. The name of the book is a Good Mom's Guide to Making Bad Choice. We're going to talk about motherhood. We're going to talk about the perfect baby daddy. We're going to talk about what you can and cannot do after you drop a child. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping.

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vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your Doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. All right, you guys, this is a book you have to buy. Okay. The name of the book is a good mom's guide to making bad choices. The authors of this book, Erica Dickerson, Jamila Map, are here with us today. They also are the hosts of one of the best podcasts out, a podcast that is grown in relevance throughout the course of his existence and is now cooking. Good mom's bad choices.

It's the name of the podcast. These are home girls. Erica, Emila, Mila and Erica, welcome to Higher Learning. How are you guys doing? Hi, what a wonderful warm welcome. Thank you for having it. Yes, thank you, Van. And hello, Rachel.

It's a pleasure to meet you. Hi, guys. Nice to meet you, too. I feel like listening to your podcast. I know you, which I'm sure attributes to, there are a number of reasons why you guys are successful, but just listening to you, I'm like, I feel like I know them. You're very familiar to me.

So, I mean, it's great to talk to you guys in person. So thank you for coming on the show. So the book will start there. A Good Mom's Guide to Making Bad Choices. I feel like that's a very interesting title because in that title, there's an expectation. the expectation is the choices that moms should make. Okay, I feel like that comes with that.

What do you guys feel like the expectations are that mothers should make? What are moms expected to do? Moms are expected to sacrifice their happiness, their souls. I think, for real, honestly, I think moms, like there's this unwritten role that once you become a mother, there's all the, things you have to give up. There's all these things that you can't love or like. You have to lose your old self to kind of like dive into your child. And if you don't, like you're not a good mom. And, you know, that's really why we wrote this book and, you know, started the podcast to challenge

this idea that motherhood should be self, self-sacrificial. I think that that it appeals to me so much. I'm not a mom, but planning on being one. And I just love that you guys, speak from this place of like you don't have to lose your identity you don't have to lose all sense of self you can be who you are and a mom at the same time is that like were you having these conversations amongst yourself and you're like this is why we should start this podcast this is why we should write this book because i feel like nobody else especially women of color are out here talking about you know identity and self-love and self-care and being a mom and making mistakes in the ways that you are well i think that's really been the journey of our show you know me and

and Mila started the show, not really as friends at all. We became friends really out of desperation. Like us. Exactly. So our audience has really joined us on the journey of getting to know us as friends. They've seen our friendship grow. And when we started the show, we really didn't think anyone was listening. So we really didn't hold back on sharing all the shit. And I don't know if we really even knew that that was the message we were delivering. I don't even know if we were all the way had, we hadn't stepped all the way into that idea.

There was definitely an element in my motherhood that I felt like I had to be self-sacrificing. And I think through our conversations, through talking to different women in the community, through our guests, through our journeys, as single moms, dating, exploring, fucking up, you know, like trying to rectify are bad choices, we've come to this understanding that, you know, if you're not aligned and really

understanding that your pleasure and that you as a woman, when if you fill your cup up first, that's really how you can kind of step into being a good parent. If you are depleted and you are putting everything, putting everything, including your pleasure, second, third, fourth, fifth, you can't really show for anyone. And I really learned that throughout the course of the podcast and it's been, it's a balance. It's something we still, I think, are still trying to balance. We always say on our show, we are not perfect mothers. We do not have all the answers.

And that's why we're good moms, bad choices. Let me tell you what really happened. What really happened was we were both really sad and we're the both first moms of our group. And we were desperately looking for other women who could relate. And then we both, we like hung out, surfaced, and then we both got into, we both broke up with our partners. And that was devastating, especially as black women being like a single black mom is like this stereotypical terrible place. And she came to a birthday party that I invited her to because I heard she also was having a breakup. And I was like, oh, finally, someone exactly

in the same position as me. And she told me, she's like, hey girl, I joined Tender. I was like, oh, okay. And she was like, and I met a couple. And they're fine as hell. And they're also parents. and I'm seeing them. And I said, huh, I like this bitch more than I ever thought I did. I was like, oh. She's spicier than I thought.

And now I really feel like there's a place for us to start her friendship. And then shortly after that, she said, I've been listening to a podcast, and it was mostly murder mystery. And like, I'm not a podcast person, even till this day.

And she was like, and there's no mommy podcast. There's really not a lot of black mom podcast. And there's definitely not a lot of single mom podcast. So I wanted to know if you wanted to start a podcast. And I said, are you going to tell the story about your couple? And she said, yes.

And then I said, okay, well, this is, I said, well, then we can do this. And then we're like, okay, we both smoke weed. And we're both with the shits. And so this is where that idea was birthed from. We didn't have like a full plan. We didn't think this is going to be like a full-fledged business. We didn't think that far. But her honesty, just being honest and transparent about where she was in her dating

life as a mom made me feel comfortable to connect with her. And then we realized, like, maybe there's other moms who also are human. Let's find them. And that's where the bad choices. And in this case, was a really good choice for Erica because it was a really beautiful situation. She, you know, soiled her single oats. And the moral of the story is have three sums with married couples and find your best friend. So I'm looking at the chapters in the book, the book is broken down into three parts. And these three parts are actually the entire journey, it seems like, that you guys went through as mothers. It starts off when you find out that you're pregnant, when you've had the baby, then it goes to the breakup of the baby's father. And then it

seems to have a crescendo with understanding who you are and like stepping into your truth as a fully formed woman and mother, which is, I think that's very interesting to me and very powerful because, like, when I talk about my mom, I don't say her name, I say my mom. Like, I talk about her in her relation to me. I don't talk about her as a person.

I talk about her as my mother. And so I think it's awesome that in this book, it's a complete sort of dissertation in you guys and who you've been and what you are. How do you, which brings me to my question, how do women who are parents, like, assert their personhood? How do you be something other than just somebody's mom? Which is the moment you have a kid, everybody goes, that's so-and-so's mom, that's so-and-so's mom,

they want to judge you for everything that you do, based upon the fact that you have kids. I see all kinds of fucking crazy shit. It's like, oh, she's skinned. How could she be skinned? She's got kids. What happens if she falls down on the slopes? You know what I mean?

So, like, how do you assert who you are when everyone expects you to be like a 1,000% caregiver and live for somebody else's life? You choose. You choose yourself, despite what everybody else expects from you. And it's, you know, it's a conscious choice because society is always,

always going to tell you who you're supposed to be and how you're supposed to show up. There's like this understanding, like you give birth and then you fucking morph into Betty Crocker or some shit and it's just not realistic. And, you know, even with us, even this far into our journey, even with our platform, there's always, there's still people who judge. There's people in our family who are judging, you know. Our moms are talking shit. We're going out of town. We're running a business. There's even more, you know, levels to this at this point. But it's a choice. And, you know, you have to stand 10 toes down and the choice you've made. You know, I'm clear about who I am and my daughter is clear that, you know, I'm a human and I'm your mother and I love

being your mom and that's a huge part of who I am and obviously a huge part of our brand. But, you know, outside of that, I'm a human being. And I think, you know, we have this idea that our mothers are somehow like superhuman, super women and we are, but not all the time. You know, sometimes I got to lay down. Sometimes I have to rest and I have to work and like our kids know that. There's a human that that has to happen and you have to fight for it. It doesn't just show up because like Mila said, society will try its hardest to make you feel like this is the role that you've chosen and this is the role that you have to now step into and that those other parts of you have to have to die. And so you really have to fight against almost yourself. You have to fight against your programming.

And that shit feels uncomfortable. And, you know, Van, I mean, do you know who you're mom is outside of being your mom. Like, do you know what her interests are? I know now. I know now. I think there's also a level of like kids don't, like, I don't want to know, you know.

Well, no, I know now. I know. That's something interesting that you said. I knew, I knew my mom is very, she's shared. Maybe older she. I love Ms. Crystal. So I knew earlier, but I tell you what, you know what I really knew?

It's walking down the tree having a conversation with my mother, and my mother said to me something so, a lot of people are going to judge my mom when they hear her, when they hear that she said this, but it's just real. She goes, you know, son, I have fantasies about what my life would have been if, like, you would have never been born. I don't think that that's wild to say. I mean, she says that, like, she told me, she said, you know, I think all the time, I'm 67 years old. I think all the, yeah, I think all the time about what my life would have been, like, if you and your sister wouldn't have been born. born. And I don't think that's crazy. Whereas I think a lot of people, people I've told that to have

gotten mad, my question was, tell me about that life. Yeah, what did it look like? Yeah. And she had some fly shit. You know what I mean? She had some fly shit that she wanted to do. I love that she indulge and she went ahead and spoke to it. Something that that you both just said there, Van said, I know now. You asked, do you know who your mom is as a person outside of being a mom? then Van said, I do now. And I think that's what's so freeing about what you do. Is it that you know now because like you're just older or is it because, and this is what I feel like is in my case, as I've gotten to a certain age, my mom is more willing to share things that she didn't share when she was, when we were younger, because that's just what you didn't do. You didn't talk about

your business. You didn't put yourself out there. You tried to present that you were a good mom who always made good choices. And you guys are very open of like, we're imperfect people. So do you think that that's maybe some of the disconnect as well is our parents weren't as open? At least mine wasn't. Now I know my mom in a completely different way. Absolutely. Especially in the black household. It's like our business is our business and you keep it in the household. Don't take our business outside of here. You know, like that's a big, that's a big saying. And you abide by that because you feel like there's some shame and being honest about who you are. And I think there's also this underlying thing like with moms.

It's like if I tell you my mistakes, then you're going to feel like it's okay to do the same shit I did. And if I tell you I did this and you're going to go out the deep end. And there's a level of like now you feel like you can disrespect me. Like because now I've humanized myself or now we are, I'm not your equal because that's always what parents say. Like I'm not your friend. Like I'm not your little friend.

Right. That's the, that's the, that's the narrative we hear a lot in our households, right? But I think what Mia Mila really advocate for is being honest with our kids, because I think we do our kids such a disservice by, by lying about who we are. And then they, and then they grow up and then they see us as human. And they're like, what the fuck? Like, what's going on? Freak Nick. I was at Freaknik as a baby.

My parents went to Tuskegee. But I think that there's, there's, that's why I am who I am. It's in my DNA. Yeah, I was going to say, I totally forgot. I totally forgot I was going to say my bad. I want to move on to something anyway. I want to talk about post-traumatic baby daddy disorder. You like that chapter title?

I do. A.k.a P-T-B-D-D. What is post-traumatic baby daddy disorder? That's chapter five in the book. What is that? When you have a child with somebody, there's this like cord that you have. There's a forever, the forever connection. And especially for women, there's like this forever fight to like keep this relationship

or else you failed your family and you failed your child and you failed yourself. And you're forever, you're happily ever after doesn't exist, you know. And there's trauma that comes with the aftermath. If I choose not to be with you, there's trauma about being a black, you know, a single black woman. There's a single black mom. There's trauma, you know, depending on what you'd experience in that relationship. Like, there is, there's trauma that exists in your, like, your spirit that you have to kind of work through to be like, this is okay. I can choose myself. I can move forward. I can't have a happily ever after. However, this is not what it looks like for me right now and accepting it

and moving on. And I think in that chapter, we kind of really deep dive into how we've seen it affect their moms, how it's affected us, how it kind of made us hold on to things that no longer served us for extended amount of, you know, amount of time. I personally experienced like a lot of verbal abuse and like even physical abuse from my past partner. And it lived in my DNA. And I, I didn't realize it. I didn't acknowledge it. I didn't give myself, you know, the space to grieve from it because I thought like I'm supposed to move forward. I can't dwell in this. I have to move forward. And, you know, even till this day, there's things that I experience that are directly correlated with the trauma that I experienced in that relationship. And it's like you have

to acknowledge it to heal from it. And I'm only like, you know, the book was a part of that healing, releasing it. But it's just like letting women know that you're not alone, you're not crazy. And if you feel this, this cord that you can't cut, it's because it's real in it. And it's, you know, society paints this picture is that once you have a child with somebody, you're supposed to be with them forever. And if you don't, you failed. And that's just not the truth. I think about, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, no, go ahead.

I'm just going to say, you know, in relation to that, if I talk about my mom's story and asking her specific questions around my childhood early on, and she literally said, I don't remember. Like, there's certain parts of your childhood. I don't remember because they were so traumatic in my experience with your father that I've compartmentalized them and put them away. And I think about, you know, even the relationship that I had with my child's father in certain parts of my relationship that I've compartmentalized and I've put away.

And I thought, wow, not only have I done this, but my mother has done this. And I've talked to my grandmother and she's done this. And it's just this repetitive thing that we as women do when we are in survival mode and in, and ashamed that our perfect family dynamic didn't work out the way that we thought it would. So that's really what that chapter kind of digs into the daddy issues, all the things. I love the conversation we're having and I love the conversations that you'll have on your podcast

and you guys have really created such a community and when I was listening to your podcast I thought it's not just conversations about being a mom it's about conversations about being a mom but looking like us

and what we experience as well why do you think there's so many mom groups out there that are all white majority white why do you think that we don't have these circles and these communities in such a prevalent way like they do in white spaces? We don't trust each other. There's a deep distrust amongst black women.

And me and Mila, we always call ourselves platonic wives. And that really like upsets men. But in ways we are. We do a lot of the things that a married couple would do without sex. You know, we share bank accounts. We, our daughters travel together. They're in camp together. They're on soccer teams together.

Like, you know, we make decisions for our kids together. And, you know, our friendship has been such a catalyst to the community we've been able to build. And the, how we've been able to show up as mothers. And I think a lot of women believe that they don't need other women. And they do. And I think more than, I think black women, like, I think we're starting to wake up to the fact that we need each other. And that it's not, we're not. We're not crabs in a barrel, and it's like fighting for our men and fighting for our jobs and our position.

And, you know, I think that white people have had the privilege of being able to have these sister circles and these sisterhoods from the beginning of time, whereas these kinds of things have been ripped apart from our communities and from each other. And, you know, our community is, we've built such an amazing community. of women and black, brown, white, all the things. Because one thing that motherhood does is it connects the dots. It doesn't matter, you know, whether, what race you are. You know, however, you know, we speak from a very specific, you know, positions, very specific experience. But I do think that a lot of it has to do with just the history of our people here in America,

to be honest, not to bring everything back to, you know, slavery, but slavery. I mean, even for Erica and I, like, we met through a mutual friend, but mostly on Instagram, you know. And when I saw her on Instagram and she saw me, I made judgments about her, you know, I was like, she's getting, like, when I saw her on Instagram, she was pregnant, her baby daddy was proposing to her at her baby shower. I wasn't engaged or married, although I was like having a baby with my high school sweetheart that I had known for like 15 years. I was like, she's lucky. She's doing it right. They're rich. He's an African prince.

He is not, you know. And she made judgments about me. These were the things that, but, you know, initially went through our minds. Like, these, like, I'm going to separate myself from you before I befriend you. And, you know, granted, thank God we were desperate for, like, a mom friend. And we're like, we got to connect either way. We pushed past those things. And kind of, like, a lot of those judgments were projections.

That's what I wanted. So that's what I assumed she was experiencing. And same. She saw me. I was at the Roosevelt. I had a champagne and my baby on my hip, my newborn. I was in a bikini. And she was like, who this bitch thing?

She is. Like, why is she at the pool three months after giving birth, you know? And like, but still, she made, you know, made it a point to come and befriend me. And I think the beautiful thing about our podcast is that we've, A, built our friendship over the years on the podcast. But we've healed tremendously from the women we were five years ago just by speaking about this shit out loud. hey, this is how I was feeling. This is what I projected on you, even though that's obviously not the case.

And unfortunately, it took us for us both leaving those relationships and finding, like, you know, solace and, you know, both being single moms. But I think that one of the beautiful things about the podcast is that because we've healed publicly, it gives other black women, you know, the permission and women period permission to be like,

huh, maybe I'm being, like, maybe I'm being presumptuous, maybe I'm judging. Maybe I need to take that judgment and reflect. And we really like, we really push the narrative of like healing so that you can be a better mom. And then you can like have friends so you're not thinking things that are completely untrue and that's separating you from, you know, your potential best friend. What is the perfect baby daddy? I want you guys to build it.

I want you guys to build the perfect baby daddy. Give me all the attributes and put them together that builds the perfect babies. Erica. No, I'm just. Go. The perfect child's father, baby daddy. I would say, obviously, someone supportive, someone caring, someone humble, someone, you know, who takes initiative, who wants to help, who wants to support,

who cares about family, cares about loyalty, cares about, loyalty, cares about, you know, I don't know, is respectful and understands his responsibility to take care of his family. I subscribe. There's certain parts of the patriarchy I subscribe to, okay? What parts of the patriarchy did you subscribe to? That a man should take care of his household. And that doesn't mean that a woman shouldn't take care of her household. But I think there's a level of like expectation for women, especially now with women in the workforce, being able, you know, wanting to work, taking care of taking care of, taking care of,

home that doesn't allow us to really step into our softness, doesn't really allow us to show up as our most beautiful divine nurturing self. And let me be clear, I'm an entrepreneur-ass bitch. I love to work. I love to create. But there is a level of expectation I have for my man to do the same, to rise up to the occasion and support his family, whether that is fine. It doesn't always have to show up financially, but there is a is a level of support that I expect. If you're not going to show financially, then you better be picking up these damn kids from school,

making sure they're fed so that mom can make sure that everything else is going smoothly. There's a respect that has to happen privately and publicly. You know, if we're talking about physically, over six feet tall. I think the perfect baby daddy. Tall, dark, and handsome. Blast. Perfect. I think the perfect

dreads, freckles, sorry. I think the perfect baby daddy doesn't subscribe to the toxic, like, this toxic perfect mother idea, you know? Like, I think the perfect baby daddy is a human who understands that I am also human. And that is fully aware that I'm going to give birth and I might nurse and I might carry. But we have equal roles. And just because I'm the mother does not mean that I somehow have more. of a role than you. We are both primary parents. And I think society has kind of like given men

a lot of baby daddy's permission to give a half-ass performance because they're not the moms. And so everything's like, well, you're the mom. Well, you're the mom. Well, you're supposed to sit down. I got to go out. I got to run. I got to make a run. Like, where are you going? You don't got no runs to make. You know what I mean? You know, men always want to make a run. I know where you're going. Yeah, I'll grab back. I got to take care of something. You got to take care of this baby. You know, and I think man, it's... But he's got to make the money. So maybe he has a run, maybe he has to make a run to go get to go make money, right?

Well, he needs to explain that. Yeah, like, say, he doesn't always have to make money. I'm just saying, but there is a level of responsibility that I expect my partner to take on. And it is the 50-50 role. You know, we did an episode with a fellow podcaster that was very adamant about moms are the primary parent. That is the role that you chose when you. you lay down and had a baby.

Are you being inconspicuous about who it is? It was Joe Bennett. And a lot of, obviously, community was not fucking with that idea. But there was a lot of men that do subscribe to that idea. And that, I don't know how or why a man would be proud of that. There's no glory in that. Because society has okayed it and supported it.

And so they've run with it. And it's just whack. And it really like, honestly like 51% of mothers are either depressed or suffering from anxiety and it's because once you have a baby a lot of that a lot of that responsibility falls on you and in fact like after I carry after my birth my body does this crazy thing of birthing a child like I really need a minute to go like figure my shit out like take this baby let me go figure out who the fuck I am in this new space like I've gone through this traumatic experience and sometimes it's extremely like I always call birth like

a rite of passage and it's a beautiful and it's empowering but it's a huge shift. And we need more men to understand. Like our bodies go through something, our personalities, our spirits, like, and it takes time to kind of integrate that experience. And men don't really acknowledge the grace, you know, give us grace and acknowledge that like the transition into motherhood.

And sometimes it's, you know, we never get back on our feet from there. And we always are going, going, going, taking care of this child. And you just need a minute sometimes to be like, okay, let me figure out who I am. as this person, so I don't just follow society standards and deep dive off the end. That's totally not me until like five years later I look up and I'm resenting my child, you, everyone, because I haven't really been true to myself because I felt like I had to put on this mask and be this perfect mother. And that's really what this book is about because the book, you know, I think as moms and,

you know, Rachel, one day, if and when you choose to have a child, you know, people will feed you tons of books, tons of apps to read about and learn about how to take care of your child. They never teach you how to take care of yourself. There's no books around how do you mother yourself after becoming a mother. And that really is what our book is about because I read all the books and I thought I was prepared. I was overly prepared to be a mother. But I had no, I had no guidance about how to care for this new person that I was, how to remember who I was and be okay with that and not feel ashamed about the choices that I've made before childhood and that, okay, yeah, I smoked a lot of weed before I had my daughter.

And I still want to smoke some weed now, you know? And to some people, that's a bad choice, right? And that's really kind of the play on our podcast and the book is like these bad choices that, you know, moms make and that the book really highlights that you make the rules. You really make the rules for what motherhood looks like for you and also encouraging women to really take time

to figure out who are you now. Do you know who you are? And the book is not just for moms, too. I want to be clear. Like, this book is for women in general. And men, too. If you care to know our perspective, women who maybe are on the fence

about having kids, women who maybe don't want to have kids, whatever it may be. It really is a testimony to really dissecting and diving into who you are before you make these choices that we did. It's the book I wish I had before deciding to have a child. I love that. That's beautiful. Last thing I'll say, then, I want to give you an opportunity to promote your retreat. Since you're talking about self-care and loving yourselves, you've got a

retreat coming up this summer, right? Yeah. Yeah. So can you promote that? Yes, of course. Our retreat is called the goodbye retreat. We have taken over, I think at this point, 120, 130 women out of the country. Our retreat is really, it's not just for moms.

It's for women, in general. We create a space for people to, for women to show up as themselves. A lot of women come by themselves. And it's almost like a rebranding. It allows women to show up as whoever the fuck they feel like it. If they're kind of that judgmental, closed off woman at home, when you come here, you can be whoever you want. And we really take care of every detail from start to finish.

Because as women, as mothers, we're always planning. We're always trying to figure things out. And so we wanted to create a space where you just show up and that's it. You don't really have to think about anything. You can do everything on the itinerary or you can do nothing on the itinerary. And, you know, me and Mila really pride ourselves on curating really luxury experiences because we're luxury-assbicious. And we don't want to bring anybody out of the country for no ghetto as shit. So this retreat is actually in Mexico this year in July, July 5th and July 12th.

And we're taking over. We always take over an entire property. So it's just us on property. And that really creates this kind of beautiful hub. Safe space. Yeah. to do whatever you want. You know, it's like you want to frolic,

you want to be top of us, you want to skinny dip, you want to holl at the moon. This is your place. You know, it's kind of like helping women get like back to this childlike space that I think sometimes

when you're caring for other people or you're doing a job, your wife or your mom, you're constantly pouring out. You're giving, you're giving. And it's like, you know, it's sometimes difficult to listen to your own voice when you're caring for other people.

And this is that, you know, like, hey, maybe you want to be a different person than you were last year. Hey, come by yourself. none of these bitches know you anyway. And you can be that person. Let us nurture you. And so you don't have to think about all those things

and give yourself the opportunity to sit with yourself and think, hey, does this serve me? Is this who I want to be? Am I feeling joy? Like, have I done some shit that makes me happy lately? Once the last time I froliced

and did a cartwheel in the grass, you know? So it's just like the little things that you think wouldn't really, you know, matter. But, you know, it's not just for black women, but especially for black women. We haven't often been giving a lot of space to explore our pleasure. And so we really pride ourselves

in providing a place where women can tap into their pleasure and their needs and they can go home, refreshed and, you know, advocating for themselves and for their peace, really. Last question for me.

Is there anything that you can't do after you've had a kid? No. Is there any behavior? Is there anything that you should stop doing after you've had a kid, anything at all?

Hey, listen, I'm no one's judge, you know, and I'm sure there's things I can say that would probably qualify as like bad things, in my opinion. But, like, again, that's my opinion. And I'm 400% sure that people have dissected our show and been like, there's a lot of shit you've done that you shouldn't have done, you know? Like, go to Coachella and then hit the birthday party, you know?

Like, mushrooms, LSD. I don't know. There's things, threesomes. You know, there's a lot of things that people would deem, you know, not motherly behavior, but who the fuck am I to tell you what you're supposed to do and what makes you happy? I think as long as you're caring for your kid and your kid is happy and taking care of, then you're doing a good job. And unfortunately, moms don't hear that enough. Like, you can live your life and still be a good mom. And, you know, there's balance to everything. And so whatever the fuck makes you happy, keep doing that. And like, this is also like, don't go leave your, drop your kid off at a stranger's house for 12 days and then say, good mom's dad choices told me to do it. That's not what we're saying. You know, there are obviously responsibilities that we have as mothers, you know, and mostly we tend to be the primary caregivers. And I think the fucked up part is, is that like innately, when you give birth to something, you're not going to neglect it.

You know, like there's nothing. I could go to 400. music festivals. And I'm not, and I'm going to remember to be like, hey, did Luna get tutoring today? Hey,

you know what I mean? Like, I'm going to make sure my kids shit is locked and locked down because that's kind of, like, that's a part of, you know,

the human, like the mother experience is that we nurture. That comes innately. But, you know, do what makes you happy, girl. Do what makes you happy.

All right. You guys, Jamila Map, Erica Dickerson. The book is a good mom's guide to making bad choices. It's got to go on the New York Times best sellers. It's got to get there.

You have to buy the book. And then you have to listen to good mom's bad choices. You have to do both of these things right now. I didn't even get a chance to fan out over here because dad, she doesn't like it when I do it. That's fine. Okay? I didn't get it. I left it out of the whole thing.

I almost say that nigg was a doll. I just, I still can't believe. This nigger was a dog. What is that the fuck? What does that be? A dog in what way? What do we talk about it, man? That nigger was a dog.

I mean, I'm talking about like, you get that nigga that ball. Go! You go. I just watching with my dad. You know what I'm saying? 2105. That's all I'm going to say. Wait, I want to say.

I want to say something. I want to say something. If you're in New York City, if you're in New York City, we're having a live show at City Winery, so make sure you come through. I don't know when this episode comes out. But it's on May 5th, which is this Friday. So if you're in the New York City area, come to our tour. It's a Confessions of a Good Mom tour.

If you've been to our shows before, then you know they're the ultimate Girls' Night. They are a little bit naughty, a lot of it fun. And there's elements of the retreat because, you know, we can't help but just bring the good vibes. So I definitely want to encourage anyone that's in the New York City to come through, come alone. If you need to find your tribe, you're trying to find your home girl. you'll find her here. We make sure of it. But if you want to bring your home girl,

your friend, your man, he'll have fun too. What did you want to say, my love? All I wanted to say was Rachel, you're the only season of the Bachelor or Bachelor I've ever watched. And I was really excited for this because

I was like, I was rooting for you, girl. I told, I told Erica, I was like, I never watched it. I watched her season, okay? Thank you. Thank you.

And I'm glad you stopped. I stopped too. Stop two. Everybody take the shots. All right, ladies, thank you so much for joining this day on highland. Bye. Wait, wait.

Oh, just got the beauty blender out. I pulled this out. Oh, that's what I do. Usually when I'm drunk or on something else, I do this. Yes, yes. And then it goes, oh, my God, that's a beauty blender. I said, why do you know the name of that?

That's my whole thing. It's all about to bounce, baby. Bounce that blender, honey. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything. for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum

business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by Boris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boris He I just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it. Presenting the Friars turkey breast only from Borshead. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter.

Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boershead committed to craft since 1905. They were fantastic. I loved it. If y'all aren't on their podcast, that interview alone should want to make you pick up the book and listen to their podcasts. I love the answer they had about just black women needing to support black women

and how historically we haven't really done that. You know what I should have asked them when they were talking about the patriarchy and men having to make money? I want to ask you this question. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I keep moving. I was going to ask them this question. I know what you're going to ask me and I was going to ask them this question.

What? What's the question? You asked me about Yonla? No, no. We would talk about Yonla. It's matter of fact, what's talking about it. As a matter of fact, let's talk about that now. Because I was going to ask them this question.

Let's talk about that now. Okay. Rachel, that's perfect. Give it to us. Tell us what's going. Okay. So this clip has gone viral. Ebony K. Williams, friend of the podcast,

was interviewing Eonla Van Zamp. And she was just talking to her about, I didn't see the full interview. I just saw some of the clip. And she was talking to her about, you know, black women and I think just like our femininity. and not settling for certain things and standing in our power

and I'm paraphrasing here. So she's praising all this and she lays it out beautifully. Ebony does as she's proposing this question to Ionla. And she cuts her off kind of and says, Ebony,

would you marry or date? Let's go to the audio. Let's go to the audio. Thank you. Know that you've said that you cannot teach a man or tell a man how to be a man. So I will not ask you to indict men in this question.

But I do want you to speak, Ayonla, to how women need to, I don't know, position ourselves so that we can be in our divinity so we can have our crowns right, how we can create and not build, when some of us, quite frankly, feel that the men that are available to us, and I'm talking about across the color spectrum, across the age spectrum, trust me, I've done them all. They are not positioned to protect nor provide because of some of the statistics we just talked about. They're not earning the incomes. They're not having the resources and some of them are not even showing up in the leadership. Would you date a bus driver? You would you date a bus? If he owns the bus. If he owns the bus. That's a problem.

That's a problem. Because the standards and requisites, and I'm not talking about him laying on his sofa playing video games all day. I'm not talking about that. But the standards and the criteria that we use to measure men is off for who we are as women and who they are in this society. I would date a bus driver if he loved driving the bus, if he was a man of integrity, if he was good to his mama, if he treated me well. Rachel? I agree with E. Young. You agree with E.

I have said this before. I, in all my relationships, I've been the breadwinner and all my past relationships. So for me, I've never gone into it. Would it be nice? Van. What? No. What?

Would it, would it be nice? Kick this niggas back in. No, I don't think that that's. So you think I'm kicking Brian's back in by saying that? I don't think that that's that big of a secret when Brian moved here. He's starting his business. And I'm not saying that he's doing bad. I'm just saying that in the position that we're in right now,

I'm the one making more money. Okay. I don't think that's that big of a secret. Anyways, I'm open. Whatever. Talk about me if you want. Guess there'll be a new Reddit post. Rachel, continuing to emasculate Brian.

it's what I do best apparently. Anyways, my point being is the way that I've dated or the people that I've dated, that has never been a deal breaker for me. I'm with Eonla in the sense that I'm looking past just that. Now, I want you to work, but I also want you to love what you do. So if this bus driver has always wanted to be a bus driver,

or even if he's just very happy in the space that he's in, and maybe he's saving money to do something else, Maybe this is all he wants to do. Maybe he's saving up to buy the bus. I don't know. I'm okay with that if you're doing what you love, if it's coupled with so many other things that I look for in a significant other. So I would, but I'd have follow-up questions.

If I'm like, oh, what do you do? I drive for a bus. Okay, well, I got more questions after that. I'm not saying I'm like clicking my heels and jump for joy just at that, but I got more questions. I wouldn't totally cross somebody off the list just because of the job that they did. I have follow-up. And I actually think that that's really wrong for people to do.

You think that it's really wrong for people to do? I think, listen, everybody has their preferences, but I think that you might be cutting yourself off to somebody who's great because you have a number in your head that somebody needs to be making so you can be financially taken care of. So why do you think that women feel this way? Well, I think it is within women, and I would say this about myself. There's a desire to want to be taken care of.

I want to be taken care of. And sometimes that means financially. Sometimes that means in an intimate way. It can be various things. So I think I can understand how, and also just like the gender roles that are in society, whether you can be a feminist, you can be the most liberal person, but there's certain, you know, stigmas that are placed on us in society

or certain stereotypes that are assigned to each gender that are still ingrained within you. So I think that I'd be lying if there aren't certain, you're like, oh, well, a man is supposed to do this. I think sometimes we think that, or a woman is supposed to do this. I'm not saying you should stay married to that idea, but I think that that is in us at times.

And so I think that society has told us that as women, we are supposed to be taken care of by our men and our men are supposed to provide for us and to make more for us. And I think that's still in some women. So what I would ask those women, because we had Erica and Mila on, they talked about the patriarchy and sometimes women want the part of the patriarchy. And to be honest with you, it's not sometimes. The majority of the women that I know are not. not going to date any man that is not financially secure. And when I say not financially secure,

yeah, explain that. Most women don't want a man that's financially secure. The women that I know, I'm not going to say most women. I'm not going to generalize that degree. But the women that I know and have known, they don't necessarily want a man that's financially secure. They want a man that's doing better than they are. Yeah.

So they don't want to date a man that is not, doing as well as they are doing. It makes that guy weak, impotent to them. It's always an issue. Okay, a lot of times. My question is this. And I've asked this question before, and it's a simple question. Everybody's entitled to day, whomever they want for whatever reason.

Ebony doesn't want a day to bus driver. I'm sure people are upset about it. I'm sure people are mad about it. That's on her. That's her preference. To me, the way I look at it is, hey, whatever you want, I hope it comes to you, but I'm letting you know the smaller

the needle has to go through, the smaller the hole that the needle goes through, the less needles that are out there. All right? So you're trying to thread something through the hole of the needle. The smaller it is, the less things can go in there. Yeah. Right?

So a lot of ladies that are here, talking about, you know, how much love they want and how much companionship that they want. I sometimes wonder how much they really want it because it seems like you only want it from Odell Beckham Jr. and Dancerty and Idris and like three or five, three or four other guys. But this is what I'll say. This is my question to people. What do women have to do? for the women that look at the the patriarchy or the traditional gender roles and this is a disgustingly heteronormative conversation

that we're having, but we're having it because it's the topic that we're talking about. If men have to provide and provide at this level, and I can provide just fine, doing great, I don't have any complaints. It's all fine. Well, then what do women have to do? I think those women who expect

that to provide at that level would also accept the gender role that's placed on them. I don't think that anybody is going to tell Ebony K. Williams to come home and make their food. I just don't think I think you'd be shocked at how

secretly submissive like I actually this is the problem. I think that this stuff is easy if everybody adheres to the predetermined role. that our parents have.

So if a lot of people would be like, you know what? That's cool. I got to be rich to fuck with you. I got to be rich. I got to have all his money. I have to be able to do this so you can live a soft life.

Do you know what the other side of that used to be? You know what? Do you have to do? Yeah. Whatever I say. Yeah. Like you have to do what I say. And I actually know people in those relationships.

And so what I'm saying is, is like, there can't be a situation to where this dynamic has changed for men, and then it hasn't changed for women, or excuse me, has changed for women and it hasn't changed for men, because then you're going to have people talking passage.

Well, let me ask you this. We'll use Ebony because that's the topic of conversation. If Ebony wants a man to have, you know, to provide in a certain way, let's say make more money than her, right? She wants the owner, right? She doesn't want the player, she wants the person who owns the team.

Is it fair to expect her? I think what she would say, because you said she wouldn't be accepting told what to do, is that, but I'm providing as well. Okay. So I'm bringing stuff to the table because I have my own and I'm doing this.

If you have your own, then what, then I would ask, if you have your own and you're providing as well, then to me, that should be liberating that you should be able

to get any man that you want. You should be able to go into... Well, you can, but what type... Well, I'm saying, you know, I'm saying, getting any man with you want, I mean, like, you should be able to go at McDonald's,

think that the dude behind the thing is fucking good looking, and then make him. Because nobody can't, I'm serious, because listen, there are huge Hollywood stars, gigantic, really super successful men, that when they meet women, these women aren't of any of what people would call account. I'm sure they're great people, but hey, I met a waitress at this particular club. I met a barista here. I met this person here. And because of what's expected, a lot of times these people make completely

like fine mates for those people. Yeah. And women, I understand, can't do that. Like there's a wealth gap to where they feel like they need security and what people really don't want to talk about is some of this stuff are just pro-evolutionary traits that have been reinforcing over years and years and years

of socialization, right? It's fine for me either way. I can't tell nobody to cook. I can't tell nobody to clean. I don't even want that. That's not a thing for me. I kind of saw how that burned my mom out, and that's not a thing for me.

I'm going to look at my shit and go, hey, these are dirty, I'm going to clean it. I'm going to cook my food. It's fine. Hey, it's gravy. But I do wonder sometimes, if we're talking about patriarchy and destroying it, it seems like sometimes we're picking and choosing.

Who we are. Which types of patriarchy works for women and which parts they don't like. Well, we are. And it's something that I can't remember if it was Erica or Jamila that said this, but Jamila or Erica said this about women feeling, tapping into their, like, being soft. They're soft like. Yeah. And sometimes when the quote unquote gender roles are switched or, you know, like there's a, yeah, I'll just say it that way. When they're switched, these stereotypical roles, a lot of times women don't feel like, they can tap into their femininity because they're having to be something else. And so I do think that it is innately within women that they do want to be able to tap into that. And so that means that they need, you know, a weight off their shoulders or they need help in some areas.

But I don't think that that always means in a financial way. And they, and Jamila or Erica said this when they were like, you got to pick up the kids from the school. You got to do something else around the house. There are other ways that you can help out that just don't have to be. financial, which is why I have an issue with Ebony's point of view and not yonle's, because I think that men can step up in other ways, and it doesn't just have to be financial. And I think, and I haven't always had this point of view, it took time for even me to get there, even when I was dating someone before that didn't make as much money than me.

Last thing I'll say, love Mila, love Erica, love you, love. of all of my unbelievably talented independent, self-sufficient women. I have to

be honest about something. When women say that a man doesn't have to make a certain amount of money, he can sort of step up in other ways. I don't believe you.

I mean, I need you to work. I'm just going to be honest with you. in my experience and when I say my experience I don't mean necessarily with me I'm talking about in life if your woman is making more money than you she's going to let you know at some point

like if your woman if your woman is making more money than you I'm sorry and there might be other situations out there that this is completely a different thing Man, I saw something on TV where this lady was a doctor and it was about like women that are primary breadwinners when this lady was a doctor. And she was discussing how difficult it is to, she was a doctor.

Her husband is a nurse. She makes more money than her. And she was talking about like how much of her life she feels like she doesn't get to live because she feels the burden of providing for her family. And there was a whole thing. Look, if you're a man, you don't get to complain about that. Yeah. You don't get to say that, like, my father worked his motherfucking ass off, right? Worked his ass off.

And he just wasn't able to come in. He was able to do a bunch of other shit. But he wasn't able to complain about having to take care of his family. Because there's an understanding, even if we don't want to confront it, that that should be the other way around. And there's a bunch of dudes sitting down with their wives or girlfriends right now and they're talking to them and they're saying, hey, look, don't worry about it. Just make sure that you pick up the kids and make sure you do all of this. I can make the money and it's cool.

I'm telling them right now, my nigger, be careful. No. Because when mad day comes, you got to work. You got to make money. You got to work. Make money. You got to work. You got to be able to cover some bills.

You got to do something. Even if you make, but hold on. But in a situation, but why would, in that situation, why would a man have to be able to cover bills and work? You got to be able to contribute financially, but I'm not saying you have to make more than me. But why would a man have to contribute financially? Why couldn't he just contribute to the family?

Like, I don't want a, I don't want a house husband. Sorry, I don't. Right. Would you, okay. That's what I said, I don't have a problem with a bus driver. Right. But do you think that men feel the same way in terms of housewives? Like, is there, a lot of times, so why is it wrong to be a house husband?

It's not wrong, but this is what I mean about you can be women this, women this, let's, you know, take down the patriarchy, all that. There is something within women that they still want to be taken care of. And it is not attractive to me if you're not working at all. and I come home and you are not working. I'm sorry. But what if the guy is taking care of the house, he's cleaning up the house,

he's paying all the bills. There's something within us that still wants you to be able to do something for us. Like if you're not working... So that's not doing... Well, no, because if you're not working at all, financially, like if you're not working at all, that means I'm giving you an allowance.

I'm a mother now. Wait! I'm mothering you. Wait a second, though. Why doesn't that same dynamic, work on the other side. This is what I mean. It doesn't matter how you try to slice it. These gender roles are still

there. They're present. It's so ingrained in us. Like, I will always want to be taking care of to some level. I'm not saying you've got to make more than me. But if you can't afford to take me on a date, I got to give you a monthly allowance. I'm not okay with that. Right. Okay. Okay.

That's where I'll draw the line. Well, no, I get it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I'm just saying it's always an interesting conversation talking about what people have to do. Because people need to admit that there are roles that they still adhere to in the society. Sorry, people need to admit that. If I jumped on this podcast right now and was like, look, when I come home, I expect, and these things aren't even a big deal to me.

I really don't care. Yeah. But if I expect this to be done, I expect that to be done, I expect this to be done, I expect this to be done, I expect that to be done. People would look at me in a certain way. Acceptable double standard, double standard, but acceptable. Donnie, can I have some sound? No.

Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. We're back. We're back. It's spring, which means the cougars are on the prowl again. A 70-year-old man survived a cougar attack in Utah without serious injuries. He suffered only lacerations to his head and arms when he was confronted by the animal at Spanish Fort Canyon around 1 p.m.

In the day? In the day. Authority said officials with the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources will search for the cougar on Friday. Be careful. These cougars on the loose. Okay. These cougars are out here. You guys think that we forgot about them, but we did Mount Lion.

Is out here on the prow. And this is the thing. That's Mount Lyons neighborhood. you don't need to have you don't need to if you come into my house of course you need to be cautious because it's my house and so if I come in my, if I walk in my kitchen

and I turn around and I see somebody in my kitchen I don't know yeah I'm a lacerate their head you're in Mount Lions turk. That's Mount Lions home. The whole outside is Mount Lions turf. Stone Fort Canyon, Mount Lions turf. So if you go up there you catch my line off guard.

You'll get some blasts. considerations. Okay. So you guys... Well, thank goodness the man's okay. You, I'm just, I'm just saying, he's okay and that's great. My question is, how's my line? I'm sure he's fine. Is there emotional damage? I'm sure he's fine. Because Mount Lion was probably scared. You know, y'all thought that after P-22 went to the upper room and transitioned to be one of the ancestors that we would stop talking about Mount line on this podcast. Nah, we gave it a little rest. because P-22 was tough.

My Twitter avatar is still P-22. Rest and peace to my guy. Did you find this story or did somebody send it to you? What you think? Y'all need to stop. Guys, keep coming with the mountain line. You all need to stop. Y'all need to stop.

Donnie, before we go, I want to get Donnie's take on the whole discussing re-heteronormative conversation about who makes the money and stuff. Yeah, sorry, guys. We keep saying gender roles and all that. No, actually, my wife just, got a new job and we are currently in this situation where she makes more than I do. And you okay, Donnie?

I am. I am super comfortable in our role and our roles. I've made the most in the entire span of our relationship. And her getting this new job came at like the perfect time. And us making this extra money is like exactly. me what we needed. So, I mean, it like came at the perfect time. And I'm, we're, we're comfortable about that.

I'm comfortable about it. And that's the way to look at it as a blessing. Donnie, give me the sound from waiting to exhale. He's a good man, Savannah. That's a good man, Savannah. Oh, that's a good man. Look, y'all, y'all, I am happy for Donnie and his family. And it's good.

He looked at it as a blessing. He looked at as a blessing. Because it's about a family unit. It's about you guys together. It's about a unit. It's about a unit as long as she doesn't throw it in his face, which she's not.

Okay. Donnie, I don't think she will. She is actually, like, spoiling me in a way that, like, that kind of makes me uncomfortable. Like, she's planning on taking me out on Wednesday and she, like, literally just bought me the new Star Wars game as we're recording. Like, I'm like, she needs to,

not let me tell you something let me tell what's going to happen to you donnie don't let me tell what's going good right now but it's going to change bro and let me tell you what's going to happen it's going to change in a couple ways one day you're going to be up late on the edit right you're going to be in there up late and you know she's going to come in there and you're going to be going to sleep and she's going to be like uh-uh. Ain't no time to sleep. And you're going to be like, what? You see how bad things are you like what?

No, mama got me. Ain't no time to sleep? Hey, and you're about to go to sleep? I have a job to do. I got a lot. She's going to be like, I stopped by the gas station and I got these for you. Donnie going to be calling me like, hey, bang, hit me right now. Call me, call me and say, we got to go do a record.

Like, come back here and go to see. sleep, Donnie. Don't know. Don't know. Don't know. Somebody bought you bought you the new Star Wars game. That's how you know. She just buttering you up. Can you not handle your woman making more than you? Of course.

Can you? Yeah. It happened before. And guess it happened before? The shit was brought up. Straight like that. Like, you know, I'm not for real. It happened before. And guess what? The shit was brought up. Could I handle it?

cool, I was playing basketball. But it's like, it happened. What? So we just got some really good news. What happened? I just got a DM from Wingstop. Oh, wow. We'd love to send you something.

Do you understand my love for Wingstop? What are they going to send you? Well, I only do one thing. What? Do wings? Lemon pepper. So, like, they're just going to send you wings for free? Yeah.

Very similar to the triple treat box. Triple treat box. Remember that? That's a throwback. For all you old school, thought warriors. Piece of a hug, come through with the triple treat. Well, no, never mind. I can't phone to triple treat.

Donnie, I loved your input. Donnie's great. I knew that Donnie would have the right input. But yeah, like, yeah. The voice of reason. I've been in both situations. Do you, do you throw it? You do!

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You throw it in her face. Wait, wait, no, no, okay, so no. But not in a real way, but let me tell you, let me tell you really. Let me tell you really. Let me tell you really. Seriously. And this is a real thing. So when it was thrown, not not thrown in my face, when it was brought up, the money that I didn't make. Or like how I, like what I wasn't doing or whatever. I'm like, okay, cool. And so there was a time of me, let me break it down to you.

So what happened was, you know, I'm not the easiest person to live with. You know, like I had to learn how to clean up and to do all that kind of stuff. And like, you know, it's like, my man. So my filth is the filthiest. Two people coming together. It's different. Right. It's a struggle.

So, you know, it's frustrating. You have to learn how to do stuff like that or whatever. And it was a situation to where like, you know, if it was basically like if you're not going to be cleaning up or if you're not going, if you're not going to be making any money around here. You need to step up in other ways. You need to step up in other ways. That's the fair thing to say.

Did you need to do this? So I took that to heart. And it started to be a situation to where the house was spotless. That's amazing. Okay, right. So after this, what ends up happening is it changes. To a large degree.

It changes to like it flips totally, right? Mm-hmm. And after it flips totally, it's not like I was like, you have to do this because I've never done that before. Mm-hmm. But it was a situation to where when I was asked to do something, I would go, well, shouldn't that be something that you do? now that things are the other way. And you know what I was told? Nigger, get the fuck up.

And go and do the fucking shit. And don't you ever, ever try to hold shit over my head like that. You fucking crazy? It just didn't work. And I think I thought that my expectation would be that it would be the same way. But it wasn't. And it won't be. And it's not going to happen.

I'm not, I'm not, that's just not going to happen. There's a lot of other things and there's huge, it's a completely collaborative relationship. It's, it really is a completely collaborative relationship. I don't know so much stuff about like what goes on. I just don't know what's going on. It's like, she's taking care of, right? But there was a point to where I thought, okay, I'm taking care of everything. So I expected there to be some type of...

For there to be step up, to step up in other ways. I expected there to be some sort of... Thank you. If not a thank you, an understanding of kind of the dynamic of that. And it just wasn't. And when, even when I intimated that that should be a thing, I got the boot in my face so hard. I'm like, nah, fuck it.

You know? And so, for real, There was a toxic point to where I was kind of like, you know, I remember how things were. And before when it was me. And now I'm wondering like how things are supposed to be now that I am like really taking care of things like in a real serious like total way. And I had to learn that, you know, people are different. And one person rules the fucking house. That's the way that could go.

And that's the way. that it should go, right? Do you have a preference of which way you'd rather it be? It doesn't matter. Okay. Just because, because me, what I will tell you is, like, during that time, the company I was working with half-olded, and I was on unemployment, and I was just, like, playing basketball all the time and all of that stuff.

And so there was a still, there was a boyishness about me still, you know, and that's, that's a reality. There's nothing, like, I don't lured over people. And that's kind of the anti, that's my response to my father. Like my dad would come home and he would, and if the house wasn't set to the right temperature, he's a great guy, but, you know, he wanted things to be a certain way. And he was, he worked, his job was hard, you know, out there on the job site, running a job site.

And it's hot. And he'd come home and he'd be. glistening and sweaty. He was the boss, so he didn't really have to grab a trial or a trial machine and do all of that stuff.

But he just was out. It was very stressful. So when he came home, she'd have to be correct. You'd have to be right. You know what I mean? So if it wasn't, he was on your ass.

And I just never want to lord over anyone like that. I never want to be the reason why somebody's evening is all fucked up because they have to make me happy. It's kind of my reaction to that. But having said that, I think the feelings that I had from earlier on,

there was a point to where I was like, well, I'm the man. I mean, that shit got. It's honest. It's honest. It's honest. All right. And to be honest with you, I can't talk about this and not be completely transparent. There was all other kinds of shit that I was doing, too.

Sure. And so because of that, there was pain on it. So it's not as black and white is what you're saying. black and white. Like there was, there was, there was probably entitlements that I felt and things that I did as a result of those entitlements that didn't have anything to do with what was going on inside the

house or things that are outside of the house. And that type of pain and punishment that you can put to somebody through is much worse than anything that you can ask them to do inside of your house. So like, lucky that there's even a relationship to discuss. All right. Donnie. I got some hymns that I'm going to send to you in the mail

because you got to be on your job. I appreciate that. For real. Yeah. Magic Mike, volume two. I'm going to give you some of the moves. It's great.

It's fantastic. Take the thing caps off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathen, Jr. That is Donnie Long-Slong-Beecham. Rachel Lynn, Lindsay.