Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Life of Malcolm-Jamal Warner, and What Just Happened to Black Farmers?

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

Van and Rachel react to the tragic news of Malcolm-Jamal Warner's death, before welcoming Houston farmer Jeremy Peaches to shed light on the Trump administration's impact on Black farmers. (0:00)  Intro (4:59)  Colbert ‘Late Show’ canceled (14:07)  Remembering Malcolm Jamal Warner (22:52) Couple caught cheating at concert  (42:02)  Glaze of the Week (48:39)  Jeremy Peaches joins the show (1:10:11)  Need to hear from Snoop and Nelly? (1:26:18)  WNBA pay dispute (1:47:11)  Nessa, Kaepernick and Jay-Z Host: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Jeremy Peaches Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? High alert is on. It is I, Van Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lenson. Do you feel like we have to watch what we eat and drink on the show so people don't get free advertising? No. Because I was finished.

Because I have Red Bull sometimes. I have Poppy. I have a scint you water. We should. We should because they should be giving us advertisement. But no, I don't do a good job of that. We're back. We took a week off.

Van hated it. Hated it. Van doesn't believe in vacations. Van doesn't believe in time off. Van doesn't believe in restart, refresh, renew. These are words that are foreign to him. See how she's speaking for me. You guys, this is the deal, and I'll cop to this.

What Rachel is saying is not totally untrue. And it's only because of the way... It happened? Well, the way I was beating into submission at TMZ for nine years. Oh. You have to fight and claw for every single vacation. You were working all day long, 10 hours a day, every day. You're waking up at 4.30.

And now when something happens, when something happens, I'm like, what do I do? What do I say? Yeah, you do get like that. I get the sweats about talking about topics. And there were so many topics. There were so many topics. And I do understand you better because Nina Parker explained to me, what was that noise? I have no clue.

Did you hear that? No. C.T. Did you hear that C.T? Was it a pop? Do you smell? smell something too. What does that smell like?

Like some kind of smokeworm and probably burned down. What were you saying? I feel like I feel like it smells like the booty of the bread. No. C.T. I wouldn't know anything about that. C.T.

C.T. Something popped and CTT. Don't fucking go over to the outlet if it popped. Oh, Jesus. I'm freaking it over. I thought I smelled the booty of the bread.

Thank you so much. Now, I thought about this while we were off. Mm-hmm. Because you were a hater about the booty of the bread. I have prepared for you. Not one booty but two. With some fresh butter.

Not like for you to try. I'll do it. I'll be open to new experiences. I'll... This is disgusting, though. Why? C.T., just to let you know, you being in on this, and Donnie, I know you were in on it too.

No, Donnie has no idea. Nope. Because people often make, look at that. Let me see the back of it. Disgusting. Oh, my God. People often make judgments about the way the podcast goes. But when there is something on this podcast that is surprising, like dealing with trauma from childhood, it's always Rachel.

Is this trauma? Well, it's not trauma, but it's something you're always getting at me with stuff from childhood. I actually didn't think that this was a good at. I thought that this was more of a, I'd like to change your mind. You're going to come in this room one day and it's going to be full of birds and it's I thought this was something nice you could try. That's right. You were questioned it.

People kind of back me up. CT, is this one of your plates? Let me see. I'm going to bring a real play. Fresh from Vermont. It's whack. It sucks. Oh, please.

You hadn't even fully tasted it before you got down to the booty. You didn't fully let it even hit. So you just put, you just toast it. You don't put no. Jam on it and nothing? I'm only working with so much. I don't like jam personally. Jam.

Let me tell you something. So it's not terrible. Okay. Thank you. It's not as good as the regular stuff, but it's not terrible. But really what's doing the work here, and I hate to, once again,

free advertising, but the carry gold butter is just fucking. That's what I knew. That's what I knew that it was different levels. Because when people started bringing out the carry gold butter. I was used to the regular butter. When people started bringing out the carry gold butter, they look all whatever. You put it on there, that curate gold butter. Look at that. It looks like, oh, okay, good. It's good. It's good. Okay. Now, what were we saying?

I can't remember. Oh, a lot of news, a lot of news. No, that's literally where we left off. There's a lot, a lot happened. A lot happened this past week. We got a couple of things on the podcast we're going to get to today, WMBA stuff. We're going to tap in with some black farmers and get their experiences on being a black farmer how tough it is also and how amazing it is, but also we're going to talk about some of the Trump administration and their recent decisions and how that is affecting black farmers. Okay, it's a big deal. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

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Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fanduil.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. But let's talk about some things we missed. Donnie? Yeah, this happened while we were off. CBS announced last week that it plans to cancel the late show with Stephen Colbert after next season,

citing a financial decision. According to a statement, they said that we consider Stephen Colbert irreplaceable and will retire the late show franchise in May 2026. They said that we are proud that Stephen called CBS home. He and the broadcast will be remembered in the pantheon of greats that grace late night television. I mean, I wasn't shocked. And I don't know if a lot of people were shocked or they were more outraged at the fact that Kobe, who is immensely talented, a genius, one of the. of the highest or the highest rated late night show gets canceled.

And he's been very critical. And I'll spoken, which late night show hosts are, they've become so political in how they, you know, criticize the administration or make jokes or whatever it may be. It's the timing of it all that's shocking where, you know, this is speculation, right? We know that Paramount's trying to sell to skydance and they need government approval to do that from the Trump administration.

Well, I don't, we might know that, but that's very important to. Okay. Yeah. Well, that is the case. Skydance. Paramount has been trying to sell for Skydance. And to do that, they need approval from the Trump administration to do that. So it's a multimillion-dollar merger.

A lot of people have been saying... It's a billion dollar merger. I'm sorry, a billion, billion. Yeah. A lot of people have been saying that because they did the buyout with the Kamala Harris interview where they did that with 60 minutes where they settled for $16 million, Colbert said it was a... big fat bribe.

And we know that Trump doesn't like Colberti doesn't really like any of the late night host. And so the timing of this seems to be very interesting. Yeah. That's what we'll say. He might be all right with Jimmy Fallon. But certainly Kimmel and Colbert. Shout out to

Kimmel and Colbert to Baby Doll. Shout to Baby Doll, man. Shout to Baby Doll. So this is an issue that was a knee jerk than a hmm for me

and these are all the facts Rachel just laid them out partly there I think a lot of people were surprised that Colbert was fired there's some reported on this

by our very own Matt Bellany does the town and puck news you ever watch or listen to the town puck news puck news is great

once again I'm advocating for something that I'm not being paid for so I read Matt's article and I think that there were people that were close to this situation that were surprised. But there is cover for the Trump administration here. The show costs $100 million a year to make and it had been losing money.

It was losing about $40 million a year. Now, it is also number one in a very important time slot. But then also according to Matt's article doesn't have a huge footprint on digital. So there weren't as many ways to cut costs and get the show back into, is it the red or the black when you're the black? Get the show back into the black as there would have been. However, as there would be for other shows that have bigger digital footprints and have more ways to monetize.

However, the question is if the Skydance merger with Paramount wasn't on the table would CBS have elected to cut costs and endeavor into making the late show profitable or would they have canceled the show? And that's where kind of the politics of it come into play. Because I wonder if there was an option that was presented, right? And I don't think so because I haven't heard any reporting on that. For Colbert? No.

Right. So they were just brought in. and said, we're canceling your show. No, it's all in Matt's article. Yeah. There wasn't any, take a pay cut. There wasn't any, like extra TV just laid off. They have 56 people now, which is wild. You just be a couple hundred. 56 people who worked there. 22 just got laid off. And they knew they were layoffs. They didn't know how many they were going to be. And so I guess I'm bringing up that point to say there was no. According to the report that I've read, and once again, we're going off of our colleague, Matt here.

right around July 4th, right after July 4th, Colbert and the rest of his people were told that the show was in trouble. He gets the news that they're canceling the show. And then they being CBS did not want to tell people right away that this was happening. They wanted to figure out a strategy to tell them. Colbert goes, no. He goes on a show with it that day and tells everyone. And he, according to the reporting, is not angry about this,

but he just wanted to be resolute and be strong for his people. They got 10 more months. So I'll say this, though. Which is also so interesting. Skydance is CEO. Skydance, big media company, I'm sure you guys have heard of him, is David Ellison. You guys might know David Ellison. That is the son of Larry Ellison, who is the founder of Oracle.

These are very, very rich people. Skydance has been doing their thing for him. Skydance, David Ellison, the CEO of Skydance, told the FCC, Trump's FCC. that CBS going forward, post-sky dance merger, I want you guys to hear this, would reflect varied ideological perspectives of U.S. viewers while touting American storyteller. Okay.

Also, there's something else. Bari Weiss, who is the owner-operator of a vertical called the Free Press. I don't know if you guys have heard of Bari Weiss. I would have, Barry, Barry, Barry. I always thought it was Barry, but I'm bad with names too. Barry wise. I wasn't going to correct you.

A very, I would say, center-right conservative voice. There are talks that she is going to have a pretty significant role in whatever CBS does in the future. maybe she'll be a close accolite and ally to the head of CBS. Maybe she'll even be on 60 Minutes. So CBS is, if you look at them as a far left outlet, you're probably crazy. But they're making sure that they throw enough red meat to the Trump administration. Yeah. That this merger is approved and that the Trump administration knows that there'll be a change in programming on CBS on 60 minutes

in their overall coverage and their American storytelling or reflecting a diversity of American views, which I guess Trump and them didn't think that they were doing before that, making sure that they placate them so they can get this merger done. The merger is about $8 billion.

So look, was the Colbert show losing money? It's an expensive show? Yes. If not for an administration that was, kind of targeting the media, might they have changed the show or tried to get some value out of the show?

Sure. The reason I said that I wasn't shocked is because of the way traditional media is trending. Most people, the audience that sits down and says, hey, I'm going to watch the late show tonight is dwindling, you know, as people are getting older.

So most people catch their clips, and to your point of Colbert Show not having as big of a digital footprint, most people catch their clips of Jimmy Kimmel or Fallon in the morning. They're not even watching it late night, right? So the name is almost, doesn't even really matter anymore. They're watching it the next day. They're watching it on social media.

They're watching it whenever they want. And they're watching clips of it rather than sitting down and watching the show. So when I see, and in light of the industry changing, I just brought up extra TV. We're seeing so many layoffs when it comes to entertainment. I mean, they're not an entertainment magazine show, but just entertainment reporting or things of that nature because of social media, because of the internet, I wasn't shocked by it. But when you bring up all the points,

which, you know, I talked about Skydance and the merger, and then you talking about that, and then me also remembering, oh, Bill Owens resigned because he said from 60 Minutes as the chief executive producer, because he said he couldn't do his job anymore. He was getting on by the amendment. Yeah, because, and so it's very obvious

what's going on over there with CBS. And I think, of course, We're speculating here because nothing has been proven. What the fuck? What? Malcolm Jamal Warner has died. Oh my gosh. Of a drowning?

Donnie, put this, put this, put this. Yeah, this is just breaking. Oh my gosh, I'm going to cry. There's not a lot coming out about exactly what happened. There are reports that it was a drowning, but this just came down. a few minutes ago. Okay. We're getting this in real time, guys.

I know by the time the podcast comes out, you guys are going to know. This is an unconfirmed, though reliable source who says that Malcolm Jamal Warner has died as according to TMZ as a result of an accidental drowning. It is a very sparse article on TMZ right now.

And that's because they don't know very, much. So the article basically just gives you a headline, a gallery, and then it says that it goes back through Malcolm Jamal Warner's career. If Bill Cosby was the father of America, America's dad in the 80s, then Malcolm Jamal Warner was its son. The character of Theo on that show, you watch the character grow, mature, come to terms with so many different things.

Theo was a well-meaning, lazy, decent kid who found himself throughout the course of the show. It became a confident, studious, intellectual by the time the run of the Cosby show. was over. And it's interesting, they were well to do, but the character of Theo was never looked at as a nerd or a goofy or

anything like that. It was cool to have been Theo. It was cool to be a huxable period. We know to some degree that Bill Cosby and all of his antics have tainted how we remember the Cosby show for a lot of people, not for everyone. The show, but not the characters.

Show, but not the characters. And you know what? More than the character of Theo, Malcolm Jamal Warner, once again, this is unconfirmed. And there are very little details, was an incredibly solid human being. He was outspoken. He was unafraid.

He was an advocate, an ally, a multi-talented person, a musician, a poet, a father. Just shocking. you know, Anne was having an incredible career resurgence. Yeah. I mean, we had them on here promoting a show,

but there was something else. I mean, they're very, like, growing up, and I don't know if it's the same sentiment now for kids, but there were certain musicians or actors or characters in TV shows that always felt like family.

You could not tell me that the family on the Cosby Show were not my brothers and sisters. Or, I mean, my mom said I used to call Claire Huxable Mom. Like, that's just how much you connected with them. And that's a credit to the type of actor that Malcolm Jamal Warner played on the Cosby show. And I think the other thing that highlighted was I always loved the relationship. I didn't have a brother. So always loved the relationship of watching the parenting.

between Bill Cosby and Theo on the show and the lessons that were learned. Like, if I remember anybody's storyline most from that show, I would say that because he has some of the most iconic moments on the show. The Gordon Gartrell, his teacher, when he tried to tell his dad that, when it was, I think, maybe this is the first episode or the second episode of the Cosby Show

where Bill Watson to Theo's room and he is, he's talking to him and Theo goes, Dad, Dad, you know, I'm trying my best. Maybe you'll just accept this because I'm your son and then Bill goes. That's the dumbest thing I've heard before in my life. Oh, sweet. The earring piercing.

The earring piercing. It was just kind of, this is actually, really shocking. This is actually really shocking and upsetting. I don't know how to quite contextual what the deal is. I guess information will be forthcoming. There'll be more to come out.

But if you'd ever talk to him, I really had a conversation with him. He was just an incredibly deep person. I was so thankful to his parents for what they were able to shield him from. In the 80s, when you look at child stars, particularly from the 80s, they had such a fraught time. It was such a dangerous thing to do for your long-term health and success to be a child star in the 80s. At a time when a lot of these shows

relied heavily on the kids. You don't get that as much as you used to. But during that time, there were actually leads of the shows that were children, different strokes, punky Brewster, Silver spoons, whatever. The kids were kind of in the middle of it, so they, outside of the shows, became instant stars, like gigantic stars. And a lot of them did not respond well to that. And they had a lot of personal issues.

They could not find themselves. And it cut a lot of their lives short. That doesn't seem to have anything to do, obviously, with what happened to Malcolm Jamal Warner. He lived a very healthy, awesome, life, but to lose him this way is a kick in the nuts. Can I ask you from your knowledge of TMZ? I know we keep saying unconfirmed because of reporting it, but how likely that they would post it

if they didn't have, know something? So, unconfirmed just means that, well, they know how it's the drowning, but unconfirmed just means that they haven't confirmed it with the coroner or paramedics or the police or anything like that, right? So when Michael Jackson passed away, that story actually came from a paramedic. And so you can run with that because somebody that's medical and there and knows Michael Jackson died, boom, right? So when they say unconfirmed, it just means that they haven't confirmed it with any official source that can say, yeah, this happened.

But an unconfirmed, though reliable source, is somebody who knows. Yeah, it says unconcerned, though reliable source. So that's somebody that's close enough to be able to say, yes, we lost a family member, a best friend, or something. They would not put this on the site unless that person had actually said that

and actually gave them information or evidence that it happened. So it's just very unlikely that this is untrue. We are going to get our bearings back. And we're going to take a short break and jump back into the show. But rest in peace to Malcolm Jamal Warner. And what a devastating blow. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission.

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Oh, what? Either they're having an affair or they're just very shy. I thought it was funny. A lot of people, though, can I just say, are trying to say it's not funny. What's not funny about it? Well, and this is where it gets into the whole, like, people are being just a little too sensitive when it can do it. There are a number of people who are like, this affected a wife and children and families and jobs, and I'm like, guys, that is true.

And nobody's taking away from that. But the whole way it played out was funny. Man, like, y'all, come on. Shut the fuck up. I'm sick of this shit. It's funny. It's funny. It is funny.

If this is not funny, what's funny? It's very funny. First of all, the hubris for this guy who has this much on the line to go to the Coldplay concert and be on the Jumbotron, be hugged up at the Coldplay concert. The hubris of the gentleman.

That's funny. Her too. Her too, of course. And I don't know if she's married though. She's married. Okay, cool. So apparently one of the oldest and wealthiest families in Boston.

There you go. So the hubris of all of them. First of all, it's funny that they white. Okay. I love this. You love... Peak white mess. I love white mess, man.

I love white mess. Because this is some Zeus TV shit that they got themselves involved in. This is Baddy's Boston. It could have gone so... What would you have done? In that situation? Stop.

That's the... You would not have been... You can't freak out. I wouldn't have been hugged up. Not in a company suite. Allegedly it was a company suite. So that's where I'm always like, so there were other employees around?

They wanted to get caught. I mean, clearly that girl next to them knew because she was smiling. The woman was trying to talk to her. She was like, uh-uh, uh-uh, don't talk to me. I have a theory here. This is unaliving by cop. This is suicide by cop.

They wanted to get caught. For what reason? Because the rep- Then they didn't see it all the way through. They wanted to get caught. Much like. what we're going to discuss later with Trump and F's saying. You started something and you didn't see it all the way through.

The reaction doesn't make sense. The action doesn't make sense. The reaction totally makes sense. No, it doesn't. Why? Then people don't know who you are. Why are you freaking out? I think most people, Donnie, Ashley, I think most people would have freaked out.

They wouldn't have been like, just don't move, don't move, don't say anything. They would have been like, oh my gosh. Now, him ducking was wild, but her holding her mouth and turning around. And I don't think that they thought Chris Martin was going to say what he said. I don't think, and because he said what he said, the camera stayed on them.

It didn't just do a quick thing. It was, Donnie, you, what do you think a normal reaction would have been? That's what Donnie say. They should have played it cool. Exactly. We know what they should have done. But what do you think you would have done

in that situation? I think I would have played it cool. I don't think I would have reacted. Y'all, please. Okay, honestly, I wouldn't be in the situation. Wrong answer. I knew he was going to say that. We knew, yeah, we knew he was going to say that.

Play along, Donnie, play along. I knew he was going to say that. Look, here's the deal. The guy resigned. I would have been like, the guy resigned. He resigned. So the blowback cost him the CEO position

over at Astronomer Inc. Do you think he should have? No. I think he should have. Why? He is the CEO of that company. Yeah. Meaning he is, and it's not a moral thing, right?

Like what people do, that's fine. It's more of a business thing and the perspective, like the perception of it. You are the leader of this company. You're the face of this company. You represent it. Now, and as a leader, people look up to you. They follow you. You're supposed to have this, an ethical sense of leadership.

No, no, no, no. That is true. That's why. He's a CEO. No, no, no. But that's why most companies haven't, we don't know what the, what the bylaws are for this company,

but most people have in their bylaws that, you know, if there's a relationship, an inner office relationship, it's reported to HR. Well, how could he report it to HR when he was doing it with the HR person? Like, it's so complicated. There's so many, like, legal risk with it as well.

I'm telling you, it looks like it's favoritism. It looks like that he can't be objective when it comes to certain things because he is having, and then think about, this. If you're an employee and you have an issue with him. Okay. Who do you go to? You can't go to her because she obviously has an allegiance to him. She can't fully do her job and be fucking him on the side. So why doesn't she resign? No, no, I think they both should resign. Okay. So my thing

is this, I don't believe in resignation over, I don't believe in resignation over non-criminal scandal. But then, so you didn't hear me because it's about can you do your job effectively and efficiently. They can't with the positions they have. I disagree. I think that there's a possibility that there needs to be a level set that happens.

But you've worked in offices. I've worked in offices. I've worked in offices and people in the offices are having sex. For sure. They're fucking. If this person was somebody that was, now obviously he's the CEO, so everyone is under him, right? Exactly. But if

he in some way was being threatening to her or if he was pushing himself on her or if he was in some kind of way leveraging his power over her, then that would be cause for his resignation. But him having a relationship with somebody that's in the same company as him, if it's illicit or above board. That to me, so if he wasn't married and he was the CEO having a relationship with the HR person, would he have to resign then?

Well, it depends how they handle the situation, in my opinion, right? Well, no, but the point that you made a second ago was that regardless of anything else that goes on outside of the company, right? Forget about them and their relationship and all of that, that the very relationship, the very dynamic between the CEO and the HR person is wrong, and that should mean that he resign. No, I think the way that they handled it, in secrecy and the fact that they have other people,

which is why they were handling it in secrecy, and they didn't, weren't forthcoming with it. Because in my, okay, so normally you would tell HR, head of HR, well, she's the head of HR. So then they should go to the board. So then they should go to the board. He told her over and over and over again. They should go to the board and let the board handle this situation,

whoever's over. That's what you have to do in order for the company to flow right. If I knew that the boss that I was working with was messing with HR, and I have a true issue with something that's happening within the company with him, right? Because it's also coming out that at prior places that he worked at, he was very toxic. He creates a toxic atmosphere. Let's just say that that's true, right? That's, I don't know if that's been confirmed, but that's been reported.

Right. If that's true, and he makes you feel a certain way, who do you go to to complain? So you can't. But you're putting so much hot sauce on this, right? So he's not resigning because he's fucking the HR person. That's not why he's resigning. He is resigning over some moral shit, right? Now, if you're telling me right now that you believe that...

I don't believe that. That's you... I don't think it's moral. I think it is because he cannot effectively do his job. This scandal was about the fact that he's having an extramarital affair. That's the court of public opinion. But the scandal has nothing to do. It's within the country.

company, right? I can tell you one thing like this. Let's say she wasn't the HR person. Let's say she was the CFO. Let's say she was the C.O. It would be exactly the same. It would be the, it would be the, it would be the, no, it wouldn't be the exactly same thing. I don't think it would be the same either.

It wouldn't be the same thing structurally, right? But he would still be resigning. I, he would still be resigning. He might, he might because as a CEO in his face of the company, you're also in charge of like, like I said, you're in charge of, are you in charge of it, but part of that role is about managing perceptions and it's about, you know, maintaining a certain reputation and his reputation is so tainted because of what happened in such a public way. So he might be resigning. But if he was having an affair with the CFO or the CFO, or the CFO, structurally,

as if when it comes to a matter of doing your job, I do not think that it has the same impact because HR directly deals with employees, employees concerns, and legal compliance. But that is... But the CEO directly deals with the operations and the finances and all of that stuff. But when you have complaints, you go to her. By the way, she is a C-suite executive. Yeah. She's the chief people officer.

When you have complaints, you come to her. So it breaks down the structure or the work environment. It makes it toxic that if I have an issue with him or the way he's running the company or the way he made me feel or the way things are maybe my pay or whatever, anything that falls under his umbrella, which he runs the whole company, I'm concerned that I can't have an objective conversation with you

because it is tainted because of how you deal with him on a personal level. So what you are saying then, essentially, is that regardless if they're married or not, a CEO and a C... I think the conflict of interest, yes.

That's ground for resignation or termination. Or change of position. I think the conflict of interest is too great. Like if I'm on a board, I do not want my CEO and HR because that's, HR is where all the issues come in. So if there's discrimination, if there's harassment, if there's, that is where it comes through. I don't want any of that. I don't like the way it looks. So this is what I think.

Number one, I sincerely doubt that this woman was the sole voice and arbiter of what happens. Number two, HR is always in the bag for the big C sweet people as far as I'm concerned. 100% for corporate. They're always in the back for corporate. Number two. Number three, he resigned because he embarrassed the company. Not because of any effectiveness with the job or anything like that. He resigned because he embarrass the company.

That thing is part of it too. What if they fall in love, right? What if they fall in love and they go to the company and it's all, above board and they say, hey, we're in love. Like, look, we fell in love. We were listening to Cox by Coldplay and the song just affected us and we fell in love. And then they're in love.

So do you think that the HR person, the chief people officer, has to leave their job or that the CEO has to leave their job in order for them to have a relationship? After, if they weren't caught? But, okay, we're doing it the Rachel Lindsay way. So we're doing it the way where these two people, are in a relationship, they go, hey, we're going to be in a relationship.

And then they go to the board or whatever and say, we're in a relationship. Do you think that the board then says, well, one of you has to leave? I don't know. I mean, that's hard for me to say what they would have done. If I was on the board, I think I would ask them the questions of whether or not they feel like they could do their job. What I'm saying is by your rationale. You know what, if the bylaws right, if the bylaw said you have to do

disclose it and they come and they disclose it, then I think they have to keep their jobs because then you... But see, but then the thing that you set up, the fact that the HR person can't be independent thinking when she is, that's still the problem still remains. Okay, because if there's an, I think there's an ethical and a non-ethical way to do it. An ethical way is I fell in love with this person.

We fell in love to each other. We weren't caught. We weren't, our spouses didn't tell. No, what I'm saying, because then no, then there is the, you lie, you are, there's, there's a deception about it. There's not ethical and ethical. If you say, hey, I'm starting to have feelings with this person. We want to date. We want to see each other. Let's go follow the rules and go to the board and say this. Then you're doing exactly what, assuming is what the bylaws say, the bylaws require for you to do. You know, of course, more eyes are going to be on them or can you do your job efficiently and effectively. But when you sneak around or there's reporting that certain employees, you know, knew about it and were subjected to the affair, couldn't say anything. If you're using the power dynamic to, to, um, all of that stuff you just made up, by the way. No, no, no, I said there are some, there's some spec.

I've seen some, I don't know if it's confirmed. I'm just saying it. Fine, take that part out. If you were sneaking around and doing it, there's a level of deception. See, that's the part. No, it's a moral thing. You're going against the rules. That's not a moral thing.

The rules are there. The bylaws are there. Usually most bylaws say you have to report office affairs. If you're not doing it, then you're vival. violating the rules. I'm talking about ethics here. That's nothing to do with the court of public opinion. First of all, they look English. Like, if this was, if this was T.J. Holmes and Amy Robo, I do not think that they should have been fired. Those are two people who have the same type of job. There's no different power dynamic. They fell in love. They did get caught. But they fell in love. And I'm shocked that ABC couldn't see the benefit in that and them doing a show together. Their spouses are together. And now their spouses are together. So listen, this is what I'll say. If they broke some kind of rule, which I haven't read yet,

if they broke some kind of rule against this, then yeah, cool. But if this is because of the moral outrage that came from it, I don't like it. Now, to your point, I'll acquiesce. If there is some site, at TMZ, the corporate place, the rule was in effect if somebody was like a lot lower than you. Like not, if you're on the same management level, it was cool. but if you're a manager and you start fucking somebody that you manage

or if you start fucking somebody that is way beneath you, then it's cool. These people are all in the C-suite. Then it's not cool. It's not cool. These people are all in the C-suite. So really the reason why he resigned was because of outrage. I'm just being for real.

But look, if it's against the rules, it's against the rules. But if it's not against the rules, then I don't see why he resigned. I don't see why he resigned. Donnie, I'd never been in that situation in the first place. I'm Johnny. I don't like that. We love you, Don.

All right, Trump. Yeah, let's talk about his distractions. We're going to talk about the Epstein update a little bit later in the show. But he is doing his best to get the news cycle to move on. And as of this morning, Monday morning, his latest distraction is to threaten the Washington commanders to change their name back to the slur. He wrote this about the NFL's commanders. I put a restriction on them.

I may put a restriction on them if they don't change the name back to the original Washington Redskins. and get rid of the ridiculous moniker Washington commanders. I won't make a deal for them to build a stadium in Washington. The team would be much more valuable, and the deal, capital D, would be more exciting for everyone. So we're going to get to Glazer the week later on, but I'm going to ask a question,

and the question is going to be uncomfortable to hear. All right, Donnie, Ashley, Rachel, audience, you ready? Trigger warning. Is everybody ready? it's going to be uncomfortable to hear this question. Okay. But this is the question. Let's say you walked into a house

and you knew in the back room of that house, in the back room where you couldn't see, you knew it or you strongly believed it that in the back room of that house, someone was abusing a 13-year-old. year old person, right? What could happen in the living room where you're at to distract you from that fact? Exactly.

Nothing. If you strongly believed or knew that someone was being abused in the back room of the house, there's nothing that could happen in the front room of the house that would be able to distract you from that. So for anyone that believes there is a government conspiracy to protect vicious, terrible pedophiles that have been running a pedophile ring for years, or involved in the pedophile ring, for years, or are using things that other people did

to leverage high profile and power for people. If you believe that, there should be nothing that anyone can do to distract you from that. Not fake charges against Barack Obama, not the name of the Washington commanders, nothing. If you truly think and believe

that people, the most powerful and influential, people in our government were involved in a decades long conspiracy to abuse children, then you need to stay laser focused on that. You need to stay laser focused on that entire deal. So there should be nothing that Donald Trump can say, nothing that Donald Trump can do to get people off of the fact that he is acting really strangely in regards to Jeffrey Epstein.

Really strange. that's it. I mean, there's really nothing much to add to that. You're right. I can't say anything to that. You know what? Let's just get to Glazer the Week, real. Because there's a lot of stuff they're trying to distract you with.

So just... You know what? Let's do the Glaze of the Week. Give me my music, God damn. Glaze of the Week, Glaze of the Week, you're on somebody's meat. It's the glaze of the week. Glaze of the week, Glaze of the week.

you're sucking dick All right, this is easy. Glaze of the week is anyone who is trusting Donald Trump over the Epstein files. Anyone. Anyone at all that is trusting Donald Trump. That's you, Ben Shapiro. That's you, Charlie Kirk.

That's all cat turd, whomever. That's everyone who is trusting Donald Trump over the Epstein files. This one is super easy. Think of how big of a glaze it is to go from believing that there is a secret government conspiracy to protect powerful pedophiles from accountability. A conspiracy that you believe involves a wealthy leader of a child abusing cabal that might

also be a foreign intelligence asset. Think about all of that stuff together, right? And then you just punt on it. You just punt on it. No more. Nothing to see here with no evidence to prove that what you believed wasn't true. That would be like if Dr. Umar had one conversation with Kanye West and then was like, I love white women. You'd be like, what the fuck, Dr. Umar? What? Why are you on Kanye did? That's what you would say, right?

Y'all made Epstein, all of y'all, y'all entire personality. And you know what? You know what? Y'all weren't wrong. For once, y'all were not wrong. Of all of the dumb-ass shit that comes from the far right, this wasn't wrong. This actually, there was a little meat on the bone. There's so many questions about Jeffrey Epstein,

how he got his money, how he spent his money, who he knew, who knew him, a sweetheart deal that he got in the late 2000s given to him by Trump's ex-Labor Secretary, how he died, all of it, questions regarding all of it. And all of those questions, whether you are far left, center, right, far right, are questions that people should be asking.

And then for some of y'all, y'all just stopped asking them because one dude who is Jeffrey Epstein's friend, or at least was his friend, was, be careful. Was his friend for a very long time who allegedly wrote letters to him, who was in videos with him, who lived, that guy said there's no there there and y'all just went okay. Y'all just went okay, change it all. As a matter of fact, the only one,

The only thing that makes sense about the Epstein story to me is that they're still rich and powerful people covering number. Because nobody takes out the trash like rich and powerful people. Even if I tell you about trash. Everywhere else in L.A. Everywhere else in L.A. You put your trash out in front.

Have you ever seen trash in front of a house in Beverly Hills? No, but I also haven't paid attention. Wow. Do you know why? You haven't seen that? I don't live close to Beverly Hills. Get out of here. Do you know why you haven't seen that? Because in Beverly Hills, they don't let you see their trash. There are alleys behind people's homes. I'm going to show you. There are alleys behind people's homes where they put the trash for the trash guy to come through the alley and pick the stuff up. You never see the trash in Beverly Hills because rich people, powerful people, don't want you to see their trash. And if you do see it, if you do see it, they'll be like, why are you so close to it?

Are you trash too? What's going on? That's actually not trash. Actually not trash, whatever. They'll mind fuck you. But look, Maga, a lot of you, how does it feel to be the deep state? You guys are the deep state now.

Maga's the deep state. So initially there was a lot of pushback. There was. And then Trump started working the phones. And he started working because, yes, we are seeing particularly Mike Johnson. Yeah, Mike Johnson. Charlie Kirk. There are some holdouts.

Don't get me wrong. And there is still a portion. There's some holdouts. There's some holdouts. Don't give me wrong. Like, yeah, funny. But there are a lot of people who are starting to sort of get with the program. And I have to say something.

I never thought I would say to the MAGA people. I'm disappointed in y'all. This is what made you disappointed? I'm disappointed in y'all. I'm actually disappointed. I couldn't have been disappointed before because I didn't believe anything. But I thought y'all

cared about this. I really did. But I guess January 6th didn't do it? Nah, I mean, whatever. They were there. They were there, so it's like, whatever. But it's a glaze, it's a glaze. It's a real big glaze. It's a real big glaze. It's a big glaze.

It's a like crispy cream glaze. It's almost like you've lost your identity. Like, how do you look at your side? in the mirror. You've stood ten toes down on this forever. And now it's like okay, what are you going to fixate on now? Maga, what happened to you? He's talking

to y'all like, you're stupid. He talked, Maga, this nigga talking shit. The conspiracy that it was the Democrats in Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, it doesn't even fix it. Are you stupid or are you dumb? Was that what he said? You know what? I give me an example.

The recipe's my dad. My dad, when I was a kid, I wouldn't get out of bed and my dad would be like, A van, Superman's at the door. And my dumb ass, I would get up and I would run to the front and my dad, I'm like, four or five.

And I'll get up and my dad would be eating his breakfast he'd be like, it took too long. Superman flew away. I'd be like, fuck. Every single time I'd be like, fuck. And then one day, he said that to me and I was like, Superman ain't the door.

Because Superman isn't real bad. And he burst into laughter. Y'all need to have y'all Superman isn't real, the spirit of Superman. got the mind of a four-year-old. Yeah, y'all got some kids, right? He talked to y'all's like some kids. You got how stupid.

Anybody don't fuck with me is stupid. Maga, man, pull your pants up. Man, come on, nah. I thought y'all was, you know? Fools. Yeah, we got more to talk about with some of the MAGA stuff, but it's going to be about you rappers in the second. But first, Donnie, is he on yet?

He is in the waiting room. Bring in Jeremy from Black Farmers Box because we are about to talk. but a very important issue. Trump and his administration have declared war on black farmers. And I would like to talk to one of my favorite black farmers about how this is affecting black farmers,

how this is affecting him, and maybe the plight. Yeah, the history. The history of the black farming in America. Jeremy, how are you? I'm doing fine, man. How are y'all doing today? Doing well. Good. Thank you, Jeremy.

Thank you for joining us on higher learning. Before we get into the issue, tell people about yourself a little bit, introduce yourself, and tell them what you guys are doing down there in Texas with the black farmers' box. Oh, that's awesome, man. So my name is Jeremy Peeches. I would say I would be a second generation producer. I'm a farmer. I'm also an entrepreneur.

I'm in Houston, Texas. I have a grocery store called Fresh House grocery as well as a concept called Black Farmer Barks. Well, yeah, overall, I'm just an agriculture and food advocate, man, a young entrepreneur. Where in Houston? Yeah, on the south side of Houston, close to Third War, but it's sunny side specifically.

My people are from South Park, so right there. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about the structure of what it is that you actually do. You grow, you plant, you grow, and then you have a storefront or infrastructure to get your product out to people. Tell people about how that works. Oh, yeah, most definitely. So I grow seasonal organic vegetables. So whatever's in season in Texas, we're probably growing in 9 times of 10, as well as we distribute like sweet potatoes from other farmers and also other produce.

from there our produce is either distributed to grocery stores, restaurants, food banks, farmers markets sometimes and distribution. And in between that, either we process it something and turn it to a evaluated product or we put it in a store inside of Houston. So pretty much kind of building like a vertically operated farm. I think it's so interesting. and I actually come from a family of farmers on my dad's side, but it really ended with my dad's generation.

It was really my grandparents, my great-grandparents down in South Texas, B-County, B-Ville area. So I've always found it fascinating. But I am curious, before we get into just like the bigger picture, your second generation, like talk a little bit about your family and how they became farmers and then why you decided to carry on the legacy because, like I said, my family has stopped.

You're right, right. Oh, yeah, so, man, it's kind of two parts of that. One is like my last name is Peaches. I just came from my family. My family kind of originated out of Vicksburg area as well as the Delta and Greenville, Mississippi. In that area, or the area they stayed in, was a plantation called the Lagrange plantation from General John L. Hebron. And they pretty much worked the land, you know, kind of like all our ancestors and things that they deal with, sharecropped. But even post that, you know, my grandfather grew like huge.

gardens and fed the community. So my name actually just comes from actual the ruse of slavery, the ruse of farming and most southern ancestry that we all have. But then the second part of it is like growing up, I always had a passion for plants and animals. If you're from Houston, you know, we were our horses. We were to the trail ride scene. And I eventually just went to college for it.

I went to Privy and University. Got a degree in agriculture and animal science. worked for the USDA numerous concern farms like my whole like just background especially over the last 10 years has primarily been in the agriculture industry from hydroponics, aquaponics,

traditional growing, anything you want to do with agriculture. Okay, so listen, let's get into it now. All right. The headline is this. USDA ends key support for black farmers amid Trump's anti-D-EI orders. All right.

Capital BNews.org puts this up the great Phil Lewis sends it out on his Twitter and everyone starts wondering what just happened to black farmers. So, Jeremy, what just happened to black farmers? Oh, man, we got swooped the size whites. You know, if you go 11 months back, pretty much prior

to this administration, $2 billion were served out to farmers and producers as well as multiple, specifically for African-American farmers, multiple programs for funding for assistance. And then furthermore, just the food LFDA program that was sent out for school programs for food banks. All that funding was cut. So black farmers were duped, you know, then going into this administration. And then farmers in general were duped again from programs, loans, all these promises, not even a year ago. What do you mean duped? How are they duped?

Okay. So it was a huge lawsuit going out about, you know, paying farmers for discrimination from the USDA for all these years. It was a agreement and a ruling. So it was about $2 billion that were allocated. Some of them, some of the money was distributed, but most of the money didn't get distributed because we moved it to a new administration. And as well as what we saw, you know, not even just with the $2.00. tariffs with the cutting of a lot of farm programs, that money was slashed and deallocated. So you have people with energy of being excited, hey, finally, we're going to get it paid back. We're going to get some type of reparations or just payments back in general, and that doesn't happen. So it leaves both, you know, traditional black farmers, you know, confused and bewildered.

Then also farmers in general, we just lost out on a lot of money. So you lost out on a lot of money that was promised to you that from the Biden administration and before all the money could be allocated to you guys, the Trump administration stopped. Shut it down, yes. Okay. How important was that money to what it is that you guys do? Specifically for our operation, it was very important because we're at a phase of kind of like building capacity, right? you know, farmers need more equipment, you know, technology is also changing with the equipment

and labor. So with those funds, you know, you're expecting to be able to build more capacity, create more jobs, ultimately feed more people, as well as, you know, build businesses. So I think that was a huge setback. I think for the agriculture industry altogether, you know, prices are high out here, just land costs, as well as just support that's needed through traditional government programming. If you're doing commercial commodities as well, you're expecting these subsidies and these payments. So with these programs being cut,

you pretty much are on your own. Let's take it back because we're talking about this money that the Biden administration was going to give to, I'll use the term, socially disadvantaged farmers, which I know we'll talk about in a little bit. But there's a reason for that, right? They just didn't get in this administration and say, hey, we're going to do this.

There's a reason because there's a history there. Can you talk a little bit about how we even, the history of black farmers and how we got to a point where we needed to give reparations or money to compensate for what was lost or not given in the past? Oh, yeah, most definitely. I mean, this even goes back to the terms of, you know, one of my favorite idols is Fannie Lou Hamer,

in the Mississippi Delta, to where, you know, switching from, you know, the share copy economy to black farmers and producers in the past coming together and co-op and starting to grow, you know, a huge amount of acreage. But when it comes down to that selling point, you still have to compete with, you know, more corporate farmers or, you know, largely white farms that has been in generations for years, right? So even fast forward to the point that with a $2 billion lawsuit came in the point where farmers in the Mississippi Delta was buying seeds and those seeds wasn't germinating. So we've always had a history of one, having to be able to grow, but you still have to sell it within the system. Finally getting it together and co-opping, right? But you don't get those subsidies and those backups during disasters. So, you know, the government during that administration did recognize that, hey, this went on. Hey, let's allocate some money for specifically not reparations, but to these black farmers that was

discriminated against. So this is something that's been reoccurring, you know, for generations. Even when you get into the, hey, you know, the Transatlantic Slave Trade and even just bringing slave labor, how much we built to this economy from, you know, not just building pyramids and things of this nature, but building farms with bare hands, real labor, you know. So it's kind of getting to the point where I'm seeing in the climate of, you know, especially in my generation, even when you look online, everybody's starting a garden, everybody's on the farm.

We're coming at it more of like instead of just having our hand out, like, how can we, you know, put some type of system together to we just not depending upon the government. But this has been going on forever. And, you know, something can be promised in one. administration and changing to the next. But also, you know, a lot of people might not even be happy, you know, about, you know, black farmers and producers getting paid reparations, right, from those past things. So I think it's just for me, because I am a little bit younger, yeah, we want to keep talking

about that, but we want to more so focus on, like, how can we just build a new system? How do you build a new system? You talked a little bit about the $2 billion lawsuit. I don't know if a lot of people actually even know about that that some time ago a group of black farmers got together and they sued the government because they weren't getting their fair share of government subsidies or whatever was happening.

First of all, explain that lawsuit. They actually won that lawsuit. Explain that lawsuit and then explain maybe where some of the repairatory initiatives were coming from. Like what do black farmers need that they're not getting from the American government and maybe more to the point, are white farmers getting something from the American government that black farmers aren't getting?

Okay, yeah, that's a great, you know, question. One to the first thing is, again, most farms, black farms specifically, they're not necessarily generational farms, right? It goes back again. Their parents probably passed it down, inherited. So compared to most traditional black farms. farms, they didn't get a lot of, you know, grants. They didn't get a lot of loans. And you're building every year versus something that's already built that you have to maintain. This is the comparison, you know, that is always used. So we have something called the USDA NRCS or farm service agencies.

These offices are every state, every city, every county. These are the people that administer the grants and the loans from the USDA. Right. So me and you could go and of the USDA office and fell out the same packet, the same form. So what you start to see is less African Americans going to office and getting approved for these subsidies, for these grants, for these loans. But you see a high amount of generational farms that have gotten these subsidies, these grants, and these loans. Pause.

Pause, right there. So what we're saying is farms that are already established for generations are getting grants and loans that black farmers can't get. when they're just basically starting up and trying to put farms together. Right, and subsidies, correct. So this is very important because, you know, it's not that the black farmers or riches could not compete in terms of either land or an acreage.

They're only going to distribute a amount. And if you go to most of these offices and they are primarily white counterparts, you have seen instances of that discrimination. and that's where the lawsuit came about in the $2 billion that the USDA offers specifically for African-American and socially disadvantaged farmers. So this posed in the agriculture climate

last year, 11 months, a huge, you know, uproar, right? Because even if you go back before this lawsuit has been going on for at least five plus years prior to that, You had previous administration, not only the first Trump administration, but also in the Biden administration, they were already trying to write their loans through the USDA, and they started to give out more grants, more loans to farmers. But when we came to this specifically, that's why, to me, I think it becomes a racial thing. Like, how could you give, you know, these black producers, these funding?

right? But to me, I think the government was trying to write that wrong during the Biden administration. You said you worked for the USDA. Yes. Did you, so you had, I mean, direct knowledge. You're right there.

What did you see in regards to, and I'm curious to what department, but what did you see in regards to, I guess, the indiscrepancies or the discrimination maybe that was towards black farmers versus what white farmers were getting? Yeah, so during my tenure throughout the USDA, I worked for the NRCS. So the NICS, you know, they gave technical support, but they help you package the package, right?

But from there, it goes to the farm service agencies. Once you get a farm number, which anybody can apply from in any state, that's what allows you to get either that grant a loan process. So I think when once the technical agency assists you, it will help you package a package, and it goes, to FSA, you know, that's where you start to see an issue at. And I think it's mainly because, you know, what rubic or what criteria are we, you know, testing these individuals on to be able to see if they could be able to repay this long. You know, usually it's at a lower interest rate. But I think, you know, that's where their racial thing came into place.

Statistically, you know, that was their ruling to give the $2 billion. was that one may have the farm and be able to produce, but the other one has been doing this for multi-generations for a longer period of time. So that's where it's a decision based on FSA, and that's where the discrimination lies, which mainly happened to be a huge, you know, white counterparts in rural towns.

So they were getting favorable treatment because they would look at as being more stable forms. Where does the, historic land loss of black Americans figure into this. I mean, we wouldn't be having to start new farms if our land from the past that we had wasn't taken from us through contract buying schemes from white terrorism, things like that. How do we get land? What is the way to go forward and feed ourselves if we don't have any help from a government

that was party and taking our land? it goes back to square one we have to get creative and also pull our be better at pulling our resources together yes most of you know black family land is either tied up in trust or or air properties right and when you get into that you get into hey one family member white sale the other one might not you have to come into all agreeance so i think it has to be like a collective thing about our culture getting together. If anybody has land and it's not being utilized, hey, how can we lease this? How can we develop more farms and more systems to be able to, you know, make our land way more viable now? The cost of land has gone up to extreme amount, you know, also as well. A lot of people

are leaving the rural areas and going to, you know, major cities. So I think this is actually the opportunity, right, to where as look how many of these small towns and how much land that you know, Auntie and our Uncle Roger or something might have and they're staying, you know, in California per se, like, hey, how can we put these

business together and these systems together? You know, I try to be like more like, hey, we've had this conversation, you know, about, you know, generational issues and discriminations. Like I said, more of the conversations that I'm having now, Well, my counterparts is just totally, you know, leaving from the traditional system and being dependent upon them. Like, even what's going on with the tariffs is like, how can we expect to depend on, you know, the government for funding versus pulling our resources together and, you know, using what we have and leveraging our relationships?

But I'm pretty sure that a lot of this has to just do with the restructure and what our new, you know, presidential. cabinet as well. And I'm pretty sure, you know, we had more supporting for African-American farmers during a previous administration. And, you know, it's almost benign to me that, you know, yeah, if we make it about color or race, we've been discriminated against. But if you just make it about, hey, humans, the basic humans have to eat. And now it's just not about us as black farmers as much is about everybody, you know,

all races, you know, let's talk about the fact that, you know, 60 to 70 percent of the people who work in fields and harvest our food are Hispanics, right? And now they have to challenge, you know, even, you know, going to work to harvest food for Americans, right? Or look how much food will go to waste now or how much more is going to hit our pockets at the grocery stores. So, you know, we're doing it like, hey, let's look at it in three ways about just getting our people back to farming. One, for sustenance. If you can start a garden, you know,

a garden club or something like your backyard on it. Hey, let's do that. Two, for non-profitism, we need to activate everybody that's in a nonprofit to not only apply for like, even though we have issues with government grants, but, you know, corporations, right? Other entities that can help on a nonprofitism

and education space, right? And just get people activating it. and making it cool again like we're doing. But then when you get to the corporate scale, I miss God farming and production and processing, hey, let's really like pool together in their work and, you know, start to make our own products, our own distributors, processors,

and grow in a large scale and connect those dots with the markets and the marketing. But, you know, there's two ways we can look at. We can be like, hey, you know, why y'all keep doing this to us? and they've been doing it to buy my granddad, Van Granddad, my grandmother, and it's like,

nah, let's just try something different. That's what I think we're at. And I've been talking about produce and crops, like even for, you know, black ranchers with meat and goats and lamb, you know, make our own medicine, our own temperatures. But let's look at it in those three lights. Like, I could do it for myself, for sustenance,

for my family. I can do it as community education. and build our own systems, but on the big business, like, now, we have built our own system. Word up. Jeremy, thank you for joining us in Higher Learning, man. Black Farmers Box. Hey, we met a couple of years ago on the Revolt show,

and, you know, it was Revolt sponsored by Target, then Revolt got fucked up and Target got fucked up too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out to Revolt. They're doing great. Shout out to Revol. We appreciate the love. Shouts of Revolt.

All right, man. I appreciate you sharing some light on that for us, brother. All right. Thanks, y'all. We're good day. Thank you, too. Look, I got to say something real quick. And this is going to be in 120% love.

120% love, right? I got to say something. So we saw what the Trump administration is done to make it harder for black farmers. We just talked to Jeremy. We're at a headline last night. Trump administration prepares to drop seven major housing discrimination cases. Federal housing officials spent years investigating cities for putting industrial plants and unwanted facilities in poor, non-white neighborhoods. Now, under the Trump administration, the agency plans to drop the case.

You have those two cases, plus the situation in Alabama where the Trump got, the Trump administration got out of the case. This is around environmental justice. to invest that was investigating the waste that was in the water that affected black alabamas. We could go on. The dismantling of DEI and affirmative action programs, right? The rolling back of civil rights oversight. Education and HBCU funding cuts. The Department of Education moved to dismantle itself and threatened to withhold Title I funding

and other civil rights enforcement mechanisms jeopardizing the educational equity of black students. These are proposed cuts, also proposed cuts to historically black colleges and universities, pale grants, student loan relief. This all disproportionately harms black kids that are going to HBCUs. All kinds of things that we're seeing the Trump administration do that directly affect, should I say, black people. I'm saying this with love. Snoop and Nelly, we got to hear from you.

Why? What you mean, why? Why? So you hear from Snoop and Nelly, what? All right, Rachel. I need to hear from them. Tell me why. I need to hear from them because some months ago,

when everybody was having the conversation about what the administration meant for black people, we heard from two beloved figures inside of black America that were giving us reasons why they did things that they did. reasons why they performed places or went to parties or took pictures or whatever. Now it's going to be hard to hear them over the coughing from black children that are inhaling poison because there are plants inside of their communities. All things that were being investigated and being addressed that this administration is specifically rolling back. the Trump administration talks about make America healthy again

that doesn't seem to apply to black people and what we had were two very high profile black men in those situations say look this is why I'm doing what I'm doing fine that's fine that's cool

do whatever you have to do but don't let the conversation stop now that we're getting our asses kicked I want to hear it I want to hear it. So the reason I say why, and I have a very nonchalant attitude almost like a who cares, is because, yeah, you're giving more examples, but there were examples that were screaming out in front of them when both in 2025, both of them decided to align themselves with the Trump administration or be adjacent to it in regards to a performance that was tied to the inauguration or whatever.

may be. These problems have existed. Trump has, Trump was signing the day after inauguration, the things that he was going to do. And most of them impacted black people. Yet they decided to ignore it all in the name of money. So we should ignore that they ignored it? No, I don't, I don't trust them anymore. So like for me, and I'm not, what you're saying is right. I'm telling you for me. For me, I'm not, I'm not even against what you're saying. I'm just saying for me while I have this take on it is because you have shown me who you are. And I just feel like that's the stuff,

like the excuses that Nellie and Snoop Dog gave never even addressed the concerns and the issues that black people had and why they were upset with them. The way that they ignored them back when they decided to align themselves is the same way they will continue to ignore them. This almost goes towards something that we're going to talk about in regards to what's happening right. right now with the Wall Street Journal and Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump.

The issues that Democrats have been or liberals have been trying to put out there are not sexy enough and don't make headlines and don't get enough as enough traction on social media as they should. Not like the Jeffrey Epstein of it all because it's gossipy, it's messy, it's different. Like people are more into seeing that kind of stuff than they are. But the real issues still exist. and we've been talking about them forever and ever. The same issues existed when Nellie did what he did

and when Snoop did what he did. I guess I have no hope that that will hear from them, so I've just detached and said, who cares at this point? They're not leaders in our community. I don't feel like they are leaders in our community because of what they did. They've shown that there is an amount that will cause them to ignore the issues in our community. rather than align with the community.

There's a price. They showed that. Deeply frustrating to me. Okay. That's just how I feel about it. I'm not looking for them to make a statement. The reason why it's deeply frustrating is because of two things. Number one, both Nellie and Snoop and anybody else that align themselves with the Trump administration,

that is a prominent black person. They move around with a gigantic amount of cultural credibility and cachet that black people gave to them. For sure. Right. And so everything that they're able to sell, everything that they're able to do, the reason why Nelly is able to perform for President Trump, the reason why Nelly is Nelly, the reason why Snoop is Snoop is because black people made them and then white people got on to what black people are doing.

So that means that we stay in constant conversation with people who are wielding social power and cultural power that we gave to them. Because the same way that they wield social and cultural power that we gave to them, in our favor, they can wield it against us once corporate and political interests have then captured those people. So what I'm saying is this. If the conversation can be had when it's time to perform for an inauguration or explain why you're doing it then, the conversation can be had with these people while black people

are suffering from policy. Not only does it happen. It has to happen. We have to go, what about this? Like we have to. Because the reality is, if we, ignore it, then, or if we don't even speak to it, forget about them specifically with anyone who has any type of platform, anybody who has any type of platform.

The same reason why I just asked the MAGA people earlier about the Epstein thing is the reason why I'm asking Snoop and Nellie about this because they said and have demonstrated at different times, Snoop particularly, that they care and love black people. Snoop has done a lot to demonstrate that he cares and loves black people. I'm telling him right now that there's something that he did, something that he aligned himself with that is hurting, that is codifying to me, culturally codifying a movement, the MAGA movement, Trump's movement, that is anti-black.

And my thing is just asking if he cares. So it's not about whether or not I have an intellectual care about what Snoop or Nelly would say to a specific political decision, but I got to be like, yo man, look what you doing. That's the, that's, that's, that's the whole,

I got to be like, hey, look what you doing. Look at this. And there's nothing wrong with that. I got to be like, but the, we have got to be in constant conversation with them. We have to. With them too in particular.

With anyone. Well, that part I agree with. Well, they are the figureheads of this because, for some reason in the second Trump administration, Snoop decided that he was going to change his entire outlook or view on Donald Trump. We already talked about why that might have been. And not only say that he had love and respect for Donald Trump, but also then go to a Trump sponsor party in the Nelly performs for him

and then tells us about... Look at all I've done in the past. I mean, look at all I've done in the past is fair. He has done a lot. But what I'm saying is this. we're going to anchor this conversation in the now. And in the now, there are decisions being made that are not just going to negatively

affect black people economically or socially. They're not going to be able to breathe. They're going to be drinking water with shit in it. And the bottom line is Snoop, Nellie, whomever it is out there that is black and is supporting this administration, do you care about? So here's my point. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. But when given the opportunity to speak about, because people, again, they haven't come to this show or I believe in spaces where someone said, hey, this is what is happening. This is what he told you was going to happen. Yet you still align yourself to me. It is very obvious. If they were here right now, you would ask them these questions. You would say, this is what's happening. You paint in front of them just like you just like you just. You just. You just. You're here right now. You would ask them these questions. You would say, you'd say, this is what's happening. You paint in front of them just like you just. You just

just painted for our audience and for me right now. The question is, if asked again to perform or to do anything that has a price on it, would you then do it? So what I wouldn't have needed to hear from them when they were defending all of this, I would have needed to hear either I got it wrong or I didn't quite understand it, but if I was given the opportunity again, I wouldn't do it. That's not what was said. And the way I feel about them right now is that, sure, I'm not going to take, I'm not going to say that Snoop doesn't care about black people because of what he's done before. But it seems like there is a price that both Nellie and Snoop have demonstrated that. I would need to know that there is no more price that you're putting your people above money. Yeah, but the only way to litigate that, I get it.

But the only way to litigate that is to challenge them with information that is real. To me, this is a way... Do you think that they don't see this stuff? I don't know. But my job is to ask the question and incite some type of back and forth. I can't just be like, they're gone, whatever, because then you ignore it.

Look, it's not about making everybody believe the same thing that you believe. It's really not. People always go, I can vote for who I want to vote for. You can. You can. You can vote for whoever you want to vote for. And by the way,

in the places where I support you, I will still work with you. That kid that we had on here, King Randall I first from Georgia, we talked to him. He's a conservative. He's doing stuff for black boys in Albany. I sent him like 500 bucks, right? He was trying to raise money for whatever.

I sent him some money, whatever. You're trying to help out. But I have to ask you, him or anyone else, I have to ask you, if you are a black conservative, does it bother you that black farmers are not going to get what they need to get? If you are a black conservative black MAGA rapper or someone who has aligned himself with MAGA, does it bother you that the Trump administration has rolled back civil rights protections?

Does it bother you that the Trump administration got out of a lawsuit that was seeking to explore the environmental conditions for black people in Alabama and everywhere where they're affected by plants being put inside of their communities, their breathing poisoned air. Like I come from Baton Rouge, I knew kids that died of cancer at fucking 15th. And it's one thing to be able to go ahead

and figure that out and then deal with it. And then they're having a mission strations come in and say, we don't need to do that anymore. And then they have two Titans. Really it's more than just them. They're bearing the brunt of this.

To have two cultural titans, be like, look, I didn't give you 30 years. You mad at me over 30 minutes. Snoop, that's not good enough. Nellie is not good enough. I want to know what y'all think about this. And it does matter to me. It does matter.

I want to know what y'all think. I want to know what y'all think about this. Because I'm willing to litigate policy on everything. I'm willing to litigate policy and have a conversation about what is the best thing for black people. I'm not looking to be the sword of. of the Democratic Party that goes off and cuts off the legs of anybody that doesn't want to be a part of them. That's not my thing. It's not my thing to say, hey, you're a conservative.

You're bad. It is my thing to say this. If you think that black kids should drink poisoned water with shit in it or breathe poisoned air, you are my enemy, period. And I don't care how many number one hits you got on the charts. It don't matter. So I want to know whether or not they think this is wrong. And if they do think that is wrong,

I need them to talk to their new friends about what's happening in the communities that they purport to care about. That's it. And you're not going to stop me. I'll take that goddamn little-ass Jordan you got and throw it out the window. All right, I like, why are you wearing them little-ass Jordans?

These are my shoes. What do you mean? You got socks on? No, I don't usually wear socks. You are stank foot. My feet don't smell. Bullshit. If you're wearing them right now, first of all...

My feet don't smell. Your feet, your feet, you wear no socks ever. No, sometimes I do. You want me to be real honest? Yeah. I really wanted these shoes. Okay. So I had to get a smaller size.

I knew it. But I don't wear socks a lot. But with these... With these Jordan specifically, I really wanted them. And they only have half a size smaller. So. What size are they? Seven.

So you got them, but you don't ever lace them up. No, I never lace them up. I could. I could lace these up. I just can't wear socks. Do you have, because you're wearing shoes that are too small because I do that, right? One side, one foot. I got them too big.

I have shoes that are too big for me and too small for me because I really want to show. I don't know if I've told you this before, but one foot is a 14 and one foot is a 15. Well, that, so I'm a little bit of a half size with one and the other. this left foot is a 14, this right foot is a 15. Same with me. One's bigger than that left is smaller. This right here, as far as the toes on the left, Hammond, baby.

Hammer time. I mean, when I was playing a lot of basketball, the nail on my pinky toe, which is fall off. I never had those problems. But I can lace these up. I just can't wear socks because this is, my foot is, see, like my foot is a seven and a half.

Interesting. It's like my toe is like right here. But yeah. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors.

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Donnie, let's go to the world of sports and entertainment. Yeah, let's do that. Ahead of the 2025 WNBA All-Star game that happened this past weekend. Players wore these shirts with the messages that said, pay us what you owe us. As the Players Association is currently negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement, did you guys see these t-shirts? What do you guys think?

The message. What do you think? I'm wearing my WNBA jersey right now. Yeah, uh, Sparks? Well, it's NECA. She's at the Seattle storm now, but this is when she was with the sparks. I'm interested in what you thought about this.

I think, you know, I'm going to say they should be paid. They should be paid with a, with a, I, I, okay, when I saw it, I said, oh my gosh, I love, because first off, the whole watching everything was just really exciting. It was a really great all-star. And I used to work for the NBA, oh, my gosh, 18 years ago. And we worked simultaneously with the WNBA, at least my department. did. And so I went to the All-Star game 18 years ago. It was nothing like this. So this was

really exciting to see. I worked a little bit of it, is what I meant to say. And when I saw the women all walk out in unity, I thought that that was really cool. Because you see a lot, and we talk about it here on the podcast, you see a lot of storylines where they try to pit the players against each other, specifically the superstars or say, you know, the OGs are ganging up on, you know, Caitlin Clark or whatever it may be. It was exciting to see. that, no, they all came together. I liked watching some of the stud buds, show the behind the scenes

and seeing how everybody gets along, and I really appreciated them wearing the shirts in unity. That was my first thought when I saw it. And of course, I'm like, yeah, pay them. Look, I've already been on my soapbox today. So let me get back into my regular shit. I didn't even watch a WNBA All-Star game, right?

I was cooking a brand Zeno. Wow. But I watched everything else. and I just have to be honest with you. There is something interesting about a league where the players fuck each other. I don't know what to say. It is.

All of the goings-on of behind the scenes of the WNBA All-Star game when there was girls that were, you know, they were dancing on, Angel Reese and, you know, stud-buzz and all of that stuff. Girls dance on girls, though. I know, but for some reason, I'm like, and in my group chat, we talked about this a little bit. This is not an original idea.

There should be a WNBA reality show, and I think it would go hard, and it would really set up more storylines. There are so many stories. Take that out. You should actually really do that. No, we're leaving in. They can do it.

Like, there are so many storylines that exist that are bigger than just Caitlin, Angel, whatever, and it could be cool. Imagine, you know, you're playing your ex. That's fun. That to me. Hasn't it? That's happened.

I know. So I'm saying it's like more than just we're going to get into the financials of the WNBA here in the second. But I was fascinated over the last week with everything going on in the WNBA. Now, I really love the basketball product. I do. And the basketball product in the WNBA is actually pretty stellar, right? but all of this other stuff, I wasn't aware it was going down like that

and they had me going. I was following it on Twitter, everything that was going on, the whole deal. Okay, so you think that the WNBA that the players should be paid more? I do. Now, there's not much opinion here that we could give that's going to sway people

that are on the other side. Okay. So it was really just the facts. And what we wanted to try to do on the show today is just break down the facts because they come out and they're wearing the shirts, they say, pay us what you all us, after a particularly contentious,

reportedly contentious, uh, bargaining session with the brass over there at the WABA. There's a new CBA is coming. Then people go, how could you guys ask for that when your league is still losing money? The league lost, has been losing about $40 million a year.

So how could you guys ask for? Really, that's just this last year. It's interesting. as they had more revenue, they lost more money this year. It's been about 10 million. Right. Which even that in and of itself is an interesting part of the conundrum here. An interesting part of the conundrum is that the WNBA is at a point in its life as a startup lead where they kind of have to spend more money.

They have to spend more money. They have to spend more money on chartered flights. they have to spend more money on upgrading things. There's so many eyes on the league that you have to spend more money. But until the revenue meets the cultural interest, the league might lose money. It's your turn to talk. Oh. I kind of do have a slight opinion.

I thought you were reading off facts. That's why I stopped. No. I have a slight opinion because when you talk about the, WNBA being a startup league, it's interesting when you compare it to where they are right now, right? So they started in 96. So we'll say 30 years.

The NBA started in 1949. So 30 years into the NBA, they were not a profitable league. They were actually struggling. But yet they were still making more money. Now, I know they play more games and you could do all of that. But they weren't really on TV. They weren't really until they merged with the ABA.

They weren't on TV like that. They didn't have as many markets. They weren't making the money. It was really with the rise of the superstars in the 80s, David Stern coming along and him having the foresight to make basketball a global product rather than just here in the United States where you really saw things take off. But when you compare the attendance at games 30 years into the NBA versus 30 years into the WNBA, they're the same. The amount of money that they were making in the 70s with the NBA is on par exactly for 30 years into what the WNBA is making.

So I think sometimes it gets lost and I was thinking about this and you really planted the seat in my head when we were talking. You were talking about it being a startup. it's like we talk about the WNBA now versus where the NBA is now, but they got 50 years on them. So 40 something years on them. So it's like if you go back to where they were 30 years ago versus to where the WNBA now is, just that the WNBA is starting to have this uptick,

that's kind of when the NBA started to as well. And you can make the argument that the Caitlin Clark situation is the era and the boom of the superstar of the WNBA. For all I say about Caitlin Clark, there's no doubt about her effect. Correct, because even you're going back and you're looking at, like, there've been superstars obviously before, but even they are on a bigger scale. And now you have unrivaled and you have all these things that are coming about. But it's all of that combination that was happening around 30 years that we're seeing with the WNBA.

And they're expanding now into other markets, which will help them with revenues and this big TV deal that's about to start in 2026 as well. There's so many things that are going to help with it. But that all goes into the why I, because I know we said we don't really have that much of opinion, but my opinion as to why I also think they should be paid with they owed. Because NBA players were getting more. The question there is the owe. In the 80s. The question there is the owe.

Getting paid more is one thing. The question I think a lot of people are asking themselves is why they owed more money. This is the deal. Okay. Let's get into some of the brass tax. The NBA owns about 60% of the WNBA and covers the losses of the league. effectively subsidizing the league. The 2023 revenue was estimated at between $180 and $200 million

with expenses around $250 and $270 million. Now, the players want more revenue sharing. Donnie, play the clip of Kelsey Plum that I sent you. We are not asking you get paid what the men get paid. We're asking to get paid the same percentage of revenue shared. Okay. You know what I'm saying? So that's a huge misconception.

That's a huge misconception. Got it. Because every video is like, oh, this person gets paid this. This person gets paid this. Yeah. So I want to be really clear about that. Like, I don't think I actually get paid the same as LeBron. Right.

But the percentage of revenue, like, for example, they sell my jersey in Mendele Bay. I don't get a dime. You don't get any money from Jersey sales? That's great. In the NBA, they have percentages of revenue shared for the players, right? So jersey sales, obviously, their TV contracts. You see these, every year these contracts get bigger and bigger and bigger, right? Yeah, massive.

But that's because their CBA, it negotiates where the, you know, if the owners are making certain types of money, they get that as well. Got it. And the WMBA, that's not the case. Okay. So there are two thoughts there. The first thought is,

if your league is infrefortable, you can't ask for more money because you can't get a percentage of the jersey sales if the league needs that money to operate. It seems like the NBA players have a better negotiating perch to negotiate from. because what they are saying is we're making so much money. The owners in the league are making money hand over fist.

We're making so much money that we need a big stake of it because nobody's coming to watch this league that's making all of this money unless we're playing. So give me a piece of my jersey, give me a huge revenue stake, give me all of that stuff. So that's one argument. The other argument is this, that if you look at the WNBA as a long-term startup,

which is what it's been for 25 years, then at the point where there's this much cultural interest in the WNBA, the league needs more investment. And part of that investment is going to go into the players' pockets. The league has to invest more because the WNBA is on the precipice of really exploding and you can't have that happen if the ladies in the league are not being paid more money than this.

Right now, their CBA is that they get between, I think it's 9 and like 20% of the revenue split. That is, that's abysmal. It's also like the language. I think the NBA is like basketball related income versus the WNBA is like just WNB. NBA income. And so it's the league, I guess the WNBA didn't adopt what David Stern had done where the cap is linked to the new. And so therefore with the increase in the revenue that the WNBA, even though that increases, the player. It hasn't gone up commiserate with that. Right. And so you're looking at all of these things. And the real question is as much everyone made it an economic thing, but it's actually really a philosophical thing, right? The philosophical thing. The philosophical.

thing is this. Is this league worth really investing, heavily investing for the next five years? Every single indicator says yes. Every single indicator

says yes. The highest ratings we've ever seen. The total unique viewers in 2024 exceeded 54 million watch time across the networks hit 136 million to all-time high. The attendant sword. League average 9,800 fans per game. That's up 48% total attendance

surpassing 2.35 million. That's the highest in over two decades. The merchandising sales, bananas. 601% growth. 601% growth at the WNBA store, 233% growth at major retailers like Dick's sporting goods. And I think the league has really seen its biggest leap in relevance on socials. Engagement up four times. Two billion video views across the WNBA platforms. And the WNBA app is up 252%. Now, Caitlin Clark, all of these people, big part of that.

There's a new TV deal coming. That new TV deal is going to be worth something around, what is it say? Like one or two billion dollars or something? $2 billion for the TV deal for the WNBA, that might change the league's bottom line for a little while. Oh, excuse me to say that again, that might change the league's bottom line. Obviously a new TV deal.

That is, you know, if Caitlin Clark starts making threes and stops playing like, I don't know, Audrey Miller. But like if you look at the trajectory of the league, it is very fair very fair to say there's no way Caitlin Clark should be making $75,000. There's no way she should be making $75,000 a year.

Oh, she shouldn't. She shouldn't. But once again, most decisions don't have this many different factors in them when money is on the line. Most people just go, you make money based upon how successful

the thing that you are doing is. But there's just a lot of stuff here. There's a lot of reasons why these ladies should be being paid more. I think the timing of them wearing the shirt right before they're about to go into negotiation for the news. That is what you want. People are so invested and people don't understand necessarily the business, the economics of it all. But they just see a number like Caitlin Clark, who's so beloved, making $75,000 and they're upset. So with that kind of momentum behind them and then wearing these t-shirts and then going into this negotiation, I mean, they've been negotiating, but you know, it's about to be up in

October, at the end of October, it's a big deal where I think that they have some influence to twist the arm. I mean, when Candace Parker was with the Chicago Sky and they won the championship, they were playing, practicing in a recreationally. And it wasn't until public pressure where people were like, get them a facility. And the owners like, oh, now it's time. No, it's been time. And I think one of the other things is not all WNBA owners are this way, but you have to

change the perception that some of these WNBA owners have of their players and these teams. They need to start looking at them as this investment that has this, that has this uptick that's not just by happenstance, it's going to continue in the same way the NBA does. They need to say, hey, I should fear that my player is going to be incentivized to not even play in this league and just play full-time overseas. What can I do to bring the product, I shouldn't say it like that, but the game here, and have the players here to pay them more so they don't have to go overseas.

And so then they become a superstar here and then they become a superstar worldwide. Like, that's how I think they need to look at it. they have to have that David Stern mentality. The WNBA also doesn't want their players to be moonlighting overseas. No, they don't. So you got to pay them more. Because overseas, they're being like, hey, why would you do that over here? Come play here full time.

We'll give you so much more money. Right. They also want exclusivity. They don't want them moonlighting. They don't want them going to unrivolving. They don't want situations like that. The commissioner of the WNBA is one Kathy Engelbert. Kathy Engelbert.

She has been one who has been very directly arguing that the league can't afford to pay the players more. That the owners, particularly the owners that have some, that have NBA teams, need to be able to cover their losses by having the revenue share that they have. Here's the real problem. That time is just really over.

We've always known, if you're a sports fan, you've known who the players in the WNBA are you've known you heard names you heard names like Rebecca lowbo you know um yeah okay Lisa Leslie put the Shane Gillis clip in here from the asses Simone Augustus I was like what's happening here just wait until you jump in there's all kinds of names oh okay I didn't know you were waiting for me Cheryl swoops it's like all kinds of names I was like it was funny Shane Gillis made a joke that was pretty funny we've known that was funny however knowing the names and the names

being household names, it's two different things. It's different. And a lot of these ladies now are becoming household names. They are. They are famous. Like, Angel Reese is, like, on the cover of Vogue.

Right? You're seeing... Oh, is she? Well, she... It was on her Instagram. Sometimes people fake do those. Was that real? You think she faked it?

No, no, people do that, right? People do that where they... Angel Reese, let me see. I hope I'm wrong. Let's see. Angel, you bet not be faking it. Let's see. Angel Reese... Vogue. Oh, yeah, she was on there.

Okay. Okay. But they do do that. People do that to stuff why. So I'm saying that type of thing to be on the cover of Vogue. She looks fantastic. She's great, right? That's LSU baby.

That type of thing on the cover of Vogue, your household name. They are going to have to find a way to change the economics where these ladies are no longer playing to promote themselves, but they're paying for salaries that, make it worthy of them giving their bodies, their youth to the sport. They're going to have to find a way. They're going to have to find a way. If you view the WNBA as a startup league

to where one day the windfall will come in and you can recoup all of the money that you invested into it, then part of that investment isn't just going to be charter flights. It's not just going to be TV or making the arena. It's going to have to be into the actual workforce. Even the charter flights things.

That happened with public. pressure last year because there's CBA says premium economy premium economy I mean you know that's good though what's the difference between that and economy nothing I think the difference between premium economy is that

you could like get a free bag think you get a free bag do you fly economy I have recently I actually have yeah that's dope I went to New Orleans and yeah, I actually have. Sometimes I need that flight and there's nothing else available.

All right. Also times have changed. They are changing. By the way, like when people, when I say the fly economy, I'm small. So it's like for you, it's different. It's really different. Like when I did it, I was like, I'm picky eater.

I don't eat the food anyway that's given to you. Like, I really need to stop wasting money and just fly economy. Okay, I'm going to be honest with you. The only reason why is. because I'm fat now. When I wasn't fat, I was back there, chilling, going to sleep.

But now my ass be going to sleep. I'm going to be honest with you. It's worth paying a little bit more so my ass don't go to sleep. Do your ass go to sleep on planes? Yeah, I used to. I can't anymore at all. I'm up the whole time.

I just flew back from Paris as up time. 11-hour flight. You know, we've gone long on the podcast. We got, we didn't get to Shannon Sharp. We didn't get to the doodle. Oh, Shannon Sharp. We didn't get to Shannon Sharp. We just missed each other.

We had a lot going on. We have joy on the show Thursday. We'll ask her about Shannon Sharp. Ask her about it. I do have to talk about one thing real quick. Donnie, run this video real quick before we go. I might not like what Jay-Z did, but guess what I don't do? Go out of my way to not play his songs on my show.

No, I'm not spiteful. I don't try to harm people. I don't do sneer campaigns behind the scenes. And don't take away from his artist. I don't ever do that. we're clear. J's one of the best to do what he does.

Also, what he did to Colin was absolutely wrong. So that was Nessa. And she was talking about Nikki Minaj's claims about a smear job that JZ had against Colin Caput.

All right. I have to say this. I think the thing here, and I've told this story before, I think the thing here is the JZ part of it. Obviously, that's the biggest deal. But when Nessa's talking right there, there's a part of me that feels bad about letting her be on her own with saying that.

And this is the reality. This is what happens, at least in what happened, at least in this one instance, because I was there. I know for sure. I'm not saying it was JZ. I can't say that JZ did anything. Right. But I know for sure, for sure, that Rock Nation was seeding negative stories about Colin Kaepernick during the time that he was really in traction with Jay-Zee. For sure. I've told this story before. I'll tell it again. This is another story why I give Harvey a ton of credit, right? So I'm at my desk one time. This is after the Rock Nation NFL deal has been announced.

And give Harvey more credit than just with how he played this. I'll give him credit for the fact that he goes, hey, I just got this information on the phone. I know who was on the other end of the phone. I know who Harvey's Rock Nation contact is, right? I just got this information on the phone. And all of these things about Colin Kaepernick is what I just got told, right? He comes over to me and he tells me all of these things.

and it was the whole Colin Kaepernick doesn't really want to play narrative. Like Colin Kaepernick didn't go to this training or he sabotaged himself this way or whatever. Actually, it was the same thing that people had started to hear on first take. And it was a narrative that was getting around because either it was coming from what I thought at first is that either it was coming from players that had played with them or people that knew things. I don't know, but I had heard it before, right? And Harvey comes over to me and he says all of this stuff and he's like, yeah, did you know that he actually doesn't really want to play?

And I looked at Harvey and I said, look, I don't think that we here at TMZ should be getting in the middle of what's going on between Colin Kaepernick and Jay-Z. I think if we run what essentially was a hit piece on Colin Kaepernick, I don't think we have the cultural cachet to do that. number one to insert ourselves into the middle of that situation. And also, I think it's choosing a side in something that is literally at the core, the core of a black cultural discussion right now. I don't think we should do it.

And he listened. He listened. And you didn't do it. He did not do it. He listened. He goes, okay, that makes a lot of sense. He listened. I'm like, I don't think we should do that.

Like, he listened, right? He went and got back on the phone. He went and got back on the phone. And when he came back, there was a different story. And the story that ended up making it to TMZ was that Jay-Z somehow had the inside track on becoming an NFL owner because of his relationship with the NFL. And that ended up being the story. You guys could probably Google that story.

I'm sure it's still on the site that Jay-Z was going to become an NFL owner. And the reason why that story went up is because it was still a story that kind of explained why he had decided to take the deal with the NFL. It was a story that made it make sense to people. Like, oh my God, maybe Jay-Z as the owner of a team can then put Colin on a team. Or maybe moving on from the kneeling situation is worth it, because we're going to get a black owner in the NFL. Or just have some influence

towards black culture people within the NFL. Right, right, right. Because a lot of people were asking the question, like, why he did this? Because it didn't seem like it was a deal. And they were pitting Colin Kaepernick against Jay-Z. Full disclosure. I know Colin Kaepernick and Nessa.

I do not know Jay-Z or any of the higher-ups at Rock Nation. Right. So I can't say what Jay-Z was having somebody. do. But the fact that they were people from Rock Nation that were trying to put negative stories about Colin Kaepernick into the ether is true.

Now, that is two things. One, so much more common than people would think that it is, right? So much more common in media than people would think that it is. That happens all the time. Essentially, the reason why I would take it. tell celebrities all the time is like make friends with somebody at TMZ, have somebody in the office is for two things. Number one, so you can get a story and a reaction that is favorable to you

once you do find yourself in the middle of something. And also, so you can jump out ahead of stories and put your side out there first, right? And a lot of times I don't want nothing to do with the office and I would tell people like, hey, just to let you know the white people and the big corporations, they got people inside of the office that listen to them. Nobody's cooking stories for anyone. But the reason why at the bottom of an article, it says, we reached out to this person for comment, is because we reached out to this person for comment. Like, this is a story about you.

What do you say about this? And if you don't comment, that leaves that. But if you say something, then you get the opportunity to at least have some influence on how that story plays on the page. right um but they were into it and and sides were working and so that was a thing that actually happened i still do not understand why j z why rock nation entered into the relationship with the NFL that they did i'm not saying it hasn't been good for some people they spread a lot of money around and even more than the money that they spread around with rock nation through you know, inspire change and all of that stuff.

Man, I know activists that have been bailed out of jail. I know activists that have money put in their pocket. Rock Nation has done good work. That one particular move, I still don't know why that happened. And there hasn't been a sufficient answer as to how you went from, we don't need the NFL,

we don't need all of this, literally a year before to becoming a partner with them and then us getting essentially a Super Bowl halftime show for it, right? And if I were Colin Kaepernick or people that, you know, were supportive of him, I would still have those questions too because they haven't really been answered. And they're not going to be. Okay.

What year did that happen? The Harvey. 19. This was, I'm pretty sure this was, I was done in 19, but this might have been one of the last things because this is, so I was done, this might, this is, this is, It couldn't have been 18. Well, maybe it was late 18.

It might have been late 18. Six or seven years ago is my point. Right. I think, you know, whenever we have to talk about this or I hear Nessa saying something, you know, I kind of am like, okay. And it's not, it's not to disrespect the situation or Colin Kaepernick or her in any way. It's just exactly what I said to you. you're never, never say never, but you're probably never going to get the answer that you want.

And is that fair? Absolutely not. And is it fair that Colin Kaepernick never got to go back into the league? Absolutely not fair. Should be playing. Stand by all of that. But what did come out of it is that he's a legend. And he is a trailblazer.

And there are other opportunities, not the one he wanted, right? Which is to play football again and rightfully so. But there are things that came out of it that I've been on carpets when Colin Kaepernick walks on them. And people really, it's like, oh my gosh, Colin Kaepernick is here. You know, the, I don't even want to say the super stardom that he has. It's just the presence of him and knowing what he did and what he represents is huge. And it's not just coming from a black reporter. I'm talking about sharing the carpet with everybody.

Really, it's like, oh my gosh, Kaepernick is here. That is because of what he did, what he stood for, what he still stands for, what he represented, what he still represents. I get kind of like, oh, because he does represent all those things and I understand the unfairness of it, but both things can be true.

Everything that I just said, and maybe you should move on. Mm. You know, I, Nikki talking about Nikki, she's currently going through a situation, whatever. But when I hear Nessa talking about it, I'm like, I get it. You were wronged.

And it is so unfair. But part of me is like wants there to be like peace and just to move on from it. Like let's talk about all the other things y'all are doing. Because y'all are doing so much, whether it's nonprofit, whether it's a, you know, a documentary, a book, whatever it may be. Y'all are doing so many other things where then I hear that and I'm like, I get it. But I want to talk about the other things and how you're moving forward. That's it.

So. No disrespect. Where's the end of the show? I'll say this. They do talk about the other things that they're doing, right? Colin Coppinix had a book. He's at the show. He's at all of that stuff.

Correct. And we know about these things. Let's talk about the other stuff that they're doing. I'm not about to hold water. But I'm going to say this, though. I personally think, and I haven't talked to him about this, I personally think that the NFL thing is a wound that will never quite heal. I understand.

And the reason why it is is because of, first of all, I'm going to tell you why it is. tell you why I still care. The reason why it is is because what we're moving towards what we want is a community and a culture where you don't have to sacrifice yourself for the empowerment or upliftment of your people.

The Colin Kaepernick issue to me changed. It went from being an issue of protest and about police brutality, right? But then it moved. from being, is it okay to make the status quo uncomfortable? Like people say that, oh my God, on Sunday when I'm watching football, I don't want to see this. I don't want to see that on Sunday when I'm watching football. I don't want to see any of that.

Well, I don't really give a fuck about what you want to see on Sunday when you're watching football. Like, we don't have clean water. So I get it that you want three hours where you don't have to, well, you want all of those guys that beat those odds to run around and catch the ball and make you feel good about all of that stuff. and you don't want to have to worry about the fact that shit is still fucked up, but I don't really care that you want that.

I get it. I get it, but I don't really care that that's what you want. That doesn't, I don't care. The second thing is, if you care about, I've said this before on the podcast, I've really said all it is.

If you care about black people, you have got to care about black person. You have to care about black person. Now, was I able to consistently stay with my NFL boycott? No, I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. But just as I should be able to indict myself and say,

and a lot of times and a lot of choices, I choose comfort, convenience. When the pandemic came, I'm like, I got to watch the games, right? Like, I choose comfort and convenient over black, convenience over black person, over the person that's been harmed and injured because of the status quo. Just like I do a self-scout, we have to also do a cultural scout. We have to go, well, yeah,

people should move on and they should move on, but if you were doing the same thing since you were seven years old, eight years old, had made it to a Super Bowl, and then you lost that thing just because you looked around at the world and went,

this is wrong, you might never be able to forget about it. And you might be doing white America a favor if you did. So once again, this is different. This is not the same thing with the Trump thing in terms of Jay-Z because it's a business decision.

Does Jay-Z have to care about Colin Kaepernick? No, he does not have to care. The only thing is he said he did. And so there still hasn't been an actual, because people think that, you know, he's such a DFI figure that people don't want, there hasn't been an actual thing of, okay, like, what change? Like, how?

Like, why? Right? And he doesn't have to do that, but that doesn't mean the question goes away, right? So I don't know. With her saying that and just being out there by herself and people are like, oh my God, she's making shit up. The part about-

Oh, is that what people were saying? See, I don't think she's making stuff up. That's not my thing. I don't think that. I mean, those are the games that, like, corporations and different entities play. That happened. Now, I can't say that where it happened other than this,

I can't say the talking points were very uniform. I can say that. But that happened. And that doesn't make Colin and Nessa perfect because I've had conversations and arguments about the way I think, I'll give you an example. Like, you know, I'm on TMZ and I'm like, yo, Colin Kaepernick's suit is going to rip apart the NFL, CBA, give the power back to the players. We're going to the mattresses with this Thursday. Colin Kaepernick has settled his suit. I'm like, hmm, I wasn't told.

I'm like, okay, well, now I look like an asshole. So nice. Everybody, because the, you know, the people at teams, the people in the show are like, man, I thought you said, we were trying to, it seems like he took a paycheck and went on. I'm like, but I didn't really understand the mechanisms of it. Sure, sure. They haven't been perfect in their communication and they haven't been perfect.

But the bottom line is, the nigger decided to get on one knee for police brutality. And he took his fucking career. Everybody can make a decision whether or not they care of them. They did. And we do care. We do. What?

We do. We do care. But I can also be like... Wrap it up. All right. All right. She didn't lie to. Take your thin caps off,

but do not stop playing on Bailey. I'm Virginia. I'm Rachel Lynn Lindsay. I got it.