Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The N-Word at the BAFTAs, Producing R. Kelly, and Gavin Newsom Backlash: Fair or Unfair?

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

Van and Rachel react to the conversations around racism and ableism following outbursts at the BAFTA Awards, and Teddy Riley walking back support for R. Kelly. Plus, Gavin Newsom gets criticized, (0:00) Intro (9:24) N-word at the BAFTA Awards (34:53) Teddy Riley and R. Kelly (57:31) Gavin Newsom backlash (1:15:55) Huckabee on Israel: “Fine if they took it all” (1:30:55) Trump, Susan Rice, and Netflix (1:36:25) Economic viability for men Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Jade Whaley Social Producer: Bernard Moore Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. Is I Van Lathen Jr.? And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. If you're not watching the podcast, which we've asked you to do many times. If you're not watching,

then you can't see that we're in a new studio set up here with a new studio. We're now at Spotify, the different Spotify. It's a new Spotify. The creator space. The creator space. I think that's what they call it. It's a great space.

Now, listen, I was out here. looking at the mountain the mountains out there i saw you on the balcony out there see me out there on the balcony looking at the mountain this is the type of shit that i'm into this is the type of shit shout out to everyone down in matteo because matthew that's my home you know shout out to matthew but this looking at the mountain being in this area we got biance over here we got we have parkwood rock nation you're rock nation we have serious x-m you guys we're right next to rock nation You never know what kind of narratives will end up coming out of this podcast.

You could walk down the street and see, I don't know, maybe see Rach with Tata or somebody, maybe Rach with Desire Perez, maybe Rach being influenced. They say that there's an influence. I don't know that there is. We're in a great area, is to your point. My gym's around the corner.

What's the gym? Hi, Matt. I thought you went to Allo. I go there too. So tell us about Allo, because I saw Bobby. All tough. She was at Allo.

Yeah. Like, so it's a, it's at their, it's at their headquarters. Okay. Over there off Wilshire and, um, in Beverly Hills. And it's, it's an open space for like, you have to be like, it's not a membership. It's just like invited to go and like create content and you wear alo stuff. You have to be invited to go to the gym? Yeah.

You could go. I don't want to go. Okay. But you have to be invited to go there? Yeah, it's not an open gym. And it's not a membership. It's like a space to create content. You wear aloe clothes.

You work out there. You can do like any type of training. It's really great. And like you talk. I love it because I have friends there. You have friends and you go there. I will never go there. The reason why I won't go is because it seems to me that what you're describing is antithetical to what a gym should be.

Okay. You go to Equinox. I go there. You don't think that. Can every? Everybody go to Equinox? Yeah. How much is Equinox?

Like, what is it like 150? No, it's not. It's like 150. Times two. It's like one 50s. Times two and a half. I don't know what it is. So there's like there's a certain group of people that go to Equinox specifically to the one that

you go to the one that you go to Equinox. Do you know what kind of people go to Equinox? Okay. People that like the machines to work. Okay. So you want the machines to work. They work at other gyms. First, shout out to L.A.

fitness. I love how you try to make me this sort of like. Because I like you try to make me this sort of like. I didn't do that. You're the elitist person. You try to allude to that. But you go to Equinox. The conversation wasn't about Rachel in any way shape or form.

No, see, this is what happened with the black man thing where I stormed off. You're going to storm off now because of Allo? I don't do that. Well, I know. But what I'm saying is this. That's not what they said from The Bachelor with the Talk to My Hand situation. I've done more investigation into this. The Talk to My Hand situation, they talked about it.

More people reached out. Nobody was there. They reached out. That was off camera. The people reached out. Okay. But this is what I'm saying. It's not about.

about you being an elitist. It's about me being against Allo. And now I want the people from Allo to know that I'm against them. You just love to do this. Number one, it's not about you. And, Nichelle, because I know that's who you go there with. I go with Molly too.

But I saw the Allo headquarters. And I'm interested in it. I'm joking for the most part. But it is interesting to have a gym that only people can be invited to. Your point about Equinox? Well taken. Equinox has a fantastic basketball court

and I'm willing to pay for cold plunging but what I'm saying is it's interesting what you're saying as far as you're making the comparison but a membership only gym no excuse me invitation only gym is interesting yeah I mean it's a creator's space I would say let's look it up but it's yeah Allo creator's place like you could come you could go

but only if somebody invites me So you can only get healthy If someone says you can Well there's other options Well I'm just saying it's like You know you could pay $400 a month And go to Equinox Or you could play $39 a month

And go to LA Fitness What I'm saying is that's out there for you But only being able to go Some places Because they say that you could come It's crazy Can we talk about something else? We can't

Can we talk about what has been on my mind for the last, I don't know, a week. That little monkey that's been getting fucked up? Punch. Yeah. We have to talk about punch. Now, I brought the emotional support. Have you been following Punch's journey?

Yes, I've been looking at him. I've been seeing what's going on with him. Would you like to hold? Yeah, why not? Come on. Would you like to hold? Yeah. Come over here.

Now, you've accused me on this podcast of not being an animal lover. It's true. But the way, like, Bernard, Jay, you guys have seen punch, right? I'm obsessed. I close my eyes. That's crazy to me. I close my eyes and I see punch. And I think it resonates for a lot of different reasons.

Like I have two rescue dogs. And so all I see, like when I look at my dogs, I now see punch. When I see punch, I see Brownie and Copper. Because Brownie and Copper, they weren't even at a shelter. They were found in the street. They were rescued from the street. So in my mind, I immediately go, they were abandoned, they were neglected by their mother. They didn't have a friend.

They might have, who knows how long they were looking for a hug, some sort of connection. And it makes me really, really emotional. And because I've been so fixated on it, I had to go get the emotional support orangutangang that Punch has. I gave it to my dogs. They love him. They play with him.

This is like their little punch. But I love also like how everybody's coming together and just like rooting for this little monkey. Yeah. Because I feel like everyone's like, I know what it's like to be rejected. I know what it's like. I just feel like they're looking at this little monkey and they're like, it's about resilience. It's about wanting love, connection, a hug.

I think that people are going to expect for me to have something snarky to say. But I'm with you. I don't. I actually don't. You realize that shout out to Beth Pratt. She just reached out about P-22. Beth Pratt reached out about P-22. They're building the animal.

walkway. No, they're building the walkway. Beth wants me to go check out the walkway. Shout out to Beth Pratt. Shout out to P-22. Yeah, I'm with animals. I'm pro-animal. I'm finally glad that you are pro-animal. Not finally. Right. Because being pro-dog is different than being pro-animal.

I am pro-animal. Okay. And so shout out to Punch. If Punch would want to have, you know, a segment on the podcast, we want to come on the podcast and talk about this. Punch watch or whatever we could have this. What I'm also interested with Punch, though, is about the get back

because those are the stories that I like. It's one thing because like if I'm doing the punch movie, what I'm envisioning is not just punch finding a stuff animal that he can then relate to. I'm looking for the get back. Well there's an AI video out there

that's kind of like the Avengers of Monkeys and it's got like Curious George. It's got Donkey Kong. Right. It's got Caesar. And it's like they're all come together to stand by punch and root him on for him to get his respect.

But he is. Like he's found a friend now. Right. You know, it's, you know, the zoo's coming out and saying, like, this is a part of the whole thing. Part of monkeys being monkeys. Yeah, like, a lot of times mothers will reject their child. But just, like, to watch it in real time and, like, to see him carry the orangutan and, like, make the orangutang. Wrap the arm around them.

And it's just so, it's, like, just such an innocence there that's just, I could cry right. now talking about you're a cry over the punch get the bitch-ass nigger off of it stand up for yourself hey we all been in places where people try to fuck over us this is why stand up for you get this shit out of us stand up for yourself stand up for yourself we are the world I'm fucking with punch man I'll you guys there's nothing but the easiest way to get me on your side is to tell me that the animals are in trouble I love animals animals. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts.

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including important safety information. new studio, new digs, we're going through the whole thing. There's a lot happening in the world. This was a packed weekend. And by the way, by the time you guys hear this, we might be knee-deep into war with Iran. All right. So who knows what's going to happen while we're even doing this podcast. Donnie, get us started.

Yeah, let's start off with the BAFTA awards that happened yesterday. Tourette's syndrome activist John Davidson, who is the inspiration behind the nominated film, I swear. He shouted multiple swear words and a slur during the ceremony, including this specific moment when Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Linda were on stage. Delroy and I are delighted to be presenting the first BAFTA of the night for a vital part of movie making. We're here to celebrate. What were your initial reactions when you saw that?

Well, look at Van. Zoom in. You need a moment. Okay. So. Man, what's wrong with you? What is wrong with you? It's not funny.

It's definitely not. I knew you were going to be like that. How many times I've seen the clip up to this point and it's, I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. Listen. So the reason why, you know, you got to see that reaction. You guys are going to be super mad and everything.

It's because it's just that image. is you couldn't craft that image anymore ironically. You have Michael B. Jordan and D'Elroy Linda. Standing up there, because they were in this amazing cultural film, they look beautiful, and that comes from the audience. That's what comes from the audience. That's like out of a Kirby Enthusiasm episode or something like that. There is a Kirby Enthusiasm episode, actually,

where a chef is cooking and does that. Right, right, right. Now, there are people, after this happened, Alan Cumming, who was hosting the Baptist, came out and asked people for, I guess, a little patience and understanding about the condition of Tourette's. But not only him. That apology was criticized by a lot of people. But there have been other people that have said that this is an opportunity for us to come out and talk about Tourette's syndrome and how it affects people and how people's teeth. ticks can be, can manifest in ways like this that are slurs.

What are your thoughts? Well, apparently, I guess what didn't air in the broadcast is that he said something before as well, like a disclaimer. And then during his speech, there were curse words, like his monologue, I mean, his opening monologue.

But, you know, this is tough. Because when I saw it, when I saw it at first, I thought, huh, a lot of things went through my mind. Right. And I'm just going to tell you an initial reaction. I thought was this to get attention for the movie? A lot of people are saying that now. I really thought, well, what a publicity sign.

And not because not just in how he did it, just also when you watch the trailer for the movie, which is something that I wasn't aware of, which a lot of people are going to be aware of, It's only come out over there. It comes out here in the U.S. in April. But it's like he says a line in the trailer, the problem isn't Tourette's. The problem is people not knowing about it. And this has sparked a conversation online

and like this in ways that we would never be talking about Tourette's if this hadn't happened. So I really thought, huh, was this a publicity stunt? And they were just kind of like the sacrifice lamb in order to bring attention to the movie. I don't think that that's the case. These were initial thoughts. These are all the things that went through my mind.

Then I started doing the research, and I saw, I'm sure a lot of people did, or at least I hope you did, right? Didn't jump to conclusions. You did the research and you realize that this is, this form of Tourette's is super rare, and it's like less than 10% of people or cases are like this. And furthermore, like if you look at the Tourette's Association website, or even like the CDC, it talks about how it says profanity and racial slurs are part of it. And that's not necessarily the intent and actually causes distress to the person saying it.

There's like all these things. So I'm trying to make space for the fact that, you know, this rare form of Tourette's, this is of, what's the word? A tick. It's a part of it. It's a part of it. It's a part of a tick man infest itself. Knowing that, this is my issue, knowing that, knowing that this particular John Davidson has this type of Tourette's, knowing that it is a possibility that not just profanity, but racial slurs are a part of it. This is why I feel like you have to blame the BAFTA Awards because I feel like there were other options that were available to them and they did not do it.

And this is not me being an ablest, right? So some people might listen to me talking about it in this way and saying, oh, you're being an ableist because one of the options that I would have proposed is that he attended it, but not when there's a live audience, when it's on live television, when there's a possibility that not just the people on stage can be subjected to this, but the people in the audience, the people watching on television. If you know that that's a possibility, then I feel like there should have been some understanding of the extent of that disability, and they should have been able to weigh that against what the audience may be subjected to. And what we were left with were two successful black actors who were, I feel, this isn't their words, but a moment that it was embarrassing and infuriating to watch. Like they had to sit there and once again keep their cool and they didn't have to, but they did and they maintained composure and they were professional and they moved on. So I think it's, yeah, I just feel like they weren't protected. in all of this and I feel like that was the main problem in all of this and to watch them like you laughed at the beginning you made me laugh and I understand that reaction and we've talked about

this before on the podcast like that's the kind of stuff that sometimes we do to laugh through the pain but for them to sit there just that visual of them hearing that and on stage when they are Oscar one of them is an Oscar nominated actor they both are I meant sorry for sinners but yeah they both are. They're a part of an Oscar nominated film with an Oscar nominated cast with an Oscar nominated director in an Oscar nominated screenplay

with Oscar nominated music and they still have to be reminded on stage that they're in Digger at the end of the day. So this is what I'm saying. I've done a lot of research and I've looked at it and I've heard you know people talk about

what the plan is when people are experiencing ticks this way. Okay? So like I watched a lot of videos and Olai put some videos up of people that have Tourette's talking about their ticks and talking about how their ticks manifest themselves.

And I guess the plan is when you got two brothers up there looking beautiful up there for their artistic value, what they've done in this moment of celebration. I guess the plan is when that tick comes out from the audience that you understand it, you roll on with it, it's a part of it. I guess that's the plan right now.

My question is, what's the other plan? Mm-hmm. Because that plan not going to work. Yeah. And I'm just letting you know, right? because I got to be honest with you if I'm walking down the street and you tick nigger at me

on the wrong day I might tick your ass into the sun and that is that is like I'm sorry that people are hearing that and that is triggering people and I hope hope hope

to be better more elevated, more evolved in all things, including this. But it is very rare that someone else's disability condition comes. You have to make space for that at the expense of your humanity. Normally it's the other way around. Normally you are expanding your humanity in the acceptance of disability. and situations like that, right? You're saying, hey, you know what?

We can make more spaces. We can make more places. We can make a more inclusive society. It's all great. But if I dress up in Vasachi, Louis Vuitton, actively black, whatever it is, and I look beautiful, and I'm in a moment where I'm talking to people,

and somebody gets to scream nigger at me when I'm on the stage, I'm just letting you know that that might not be possible. Yeah. Like I might, that, you're, there's one thing in, you know, asking for space. There's another thing with saying,

you know, this space might not be available. Right. That might not be possible. So I don't know what the other plan is. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it would be. Obviously, you can't tell somebody they can't come to the award show. That is going to seem like you are separating society based upon what people's disabilities might be.

But I am saying this. If the plan is nigger and then me going, hey, my bad, I know that you're, I got to ask what the other plan is. And we got to figure out the other plan because I'm letting you guys know that plan might not be viable. Yeah. Well, I think that's what I mean about the award show knowing the extent of his disability.

And it's like he could come, but maybe not be in a setting where other people can hear him because it didn't just happen on stage. The production designer from Sinner said that she also heard it was her. at her and then it was hurled at another black woman as well.

So there were multiple times where the N-word came out. And so I get, there's like been this debate online as well where there are a lot of people who. I'm sorry, man. I'm trying to, I'm trying to push through. Hold on. I know, I know. I'm sorry, man. This is wrong.

What's happening right now is wrong. So you mean to tell me. I'm going to tell you exactly what she said. She said, I keep trying to write about what. happened at the Bafas and I can't find the words. The situation is almost impossible, but it happened three times that night and one of the three times was directed at myself on the way to dinner after the show and a third time at a black woman. So she's, and she goes on to say more, but she's upset at the way the award show handled it and the apology. And I think that is something to highlight

as much as not just what they were subjected to on stage in the audience and people watching. There's so much around problematic when you talk about the plan of what they did. It seems very much so that the Bafas were dismissive in black pain and the impact that this could have on the black community. Because what I don't think people are doing because you're seeing people argue

and litigate this on social media and it's a lot of people telling black people how to feel about what was said, about the N-word being hurled out multiple times. A lot of white people are telling black people how to feel. And that is all. also triggering black people because this isn't the first time, it won't be the last time, that we constantly see non- blacks telling black people how they should react to a situation

that has offended them. Black people aren't calling John Davidson racist. They're not jumping to that, but the word he said is racism. And so black people are allowed to feel a certain way about that. And what is not okay is that for the host and the awards show to put out a statement directly after Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo had to be subjected to that saying there may be some strong language. No, it was offensive. It's racist language. Not that that is his intent, but that's what the impact is. And so I feel like

it needs to be a bigger conversation of how to handle how that would, despite how or why it was thrown out there, the impact that that has on black people and the way that it is handled by non-black people. Because it isn't until today, after all the backlash, that the BFTAs have put out a more extensive apology about what happened. And that should have been done before. Part of this is a misunderstanding of, to me, at least from where I sit, a misunderstanding

surrounding the word nigger. I use the word nigger all the time Use it a lot, use it in jest I use it in community Talking to a lot of people, maybe I shouldn't But let me tell you the stupid Fivecent reason This is dumb

So put it under the put it in the lowers Van is being dumb This is what I'm about to say is legitimately dumb This is legitimately a low-eye you think dumb, stupid. The reason why I say it so much, part of it is because I know that it is uncomfortable for people at large. I know that it's uncomfortable to hear the word. Blacks or non-blacks? Non-blacks. So you stay in front of them on purpose, is what you're saying? A lot. Okay. I know that

it's uncomfortable for them, right? I know that it's uncomfortable. It's also, for me, almost a line setting. Because of course, the word nigger is dehumanizing. It's a unique word in that it is a flashpoint term used to describe hundreds of years of dehumanization. We say it's offensive, and you're right, it is offensive, but it's dehumanizing. There is man, there is woman, and then there is nigger. And we've talked about this. Nigger is neither man nor woman.

Nigger is thing. Nigger is not person. Nigger is bought. Nigger is sold. Nigger is beaten. That is nigger. So when you call someone a nigger, particularly when it's coming from white people, It is representative of white supremacy.

It is white supremacy boiled down into one word, nigger. Now, the way I was raised was that you didn't let a white man call you that. Black people called you that all the time. For whatever reason, black people called you out of time. You didn't let a white man call you that. If you acquiesce to a white man calling you that, you were agreeing. That's the thing. You were agreeing.

If a white man calls you a deal, a white man calls you a nigger, white person calls you a nigger, what they are saying is all of those things that the word means. And if you don't do something about it, you're agreeing. You're in agreement with that. You are now by your lack of action saying everything that that word represents is true. It's a fact. So the reason why the old black people that raised me said, hey, never let that happen. It's because what they were trying to tell me was that there were a group of people who had to agree

and we want you to know that you are not one of them. There were a group of people who if they didn't agree, white man come along, burn down to church, burn down to school, kill everybody. And that's what your ancestors did. I'm sorry, it's inconvenient. What they did was this is what happened. Something would happen that they wouldn't like it. They would make up a reason. When I say something what happened to do with liking, I'm not talking about like somebody would like offend them.

I'm talking about you would open a store. And they didn't like the fact that a black person opened a store. They would make up a reason because they didn't like that. They would come there. They would kill everyone and take the store. They would kill everyone. Take the black man, cut his dick off in front of his family. Kill everyone.

Take the store. Take the land. Make the black people move to Oakland. That's what happened. It doesn't matter, fuck you. It doesn't matter how inconvenient that is. And nigger was all of that stuff. So now, for me, I say, hey, I can say this thing as much as I want.

I say it, I say it, I say it. The moment that you say it, I'm almost baiting you to fuck up, the moment that you say, I get to exact consequence on you. And that consequence almost makes me a person. The fact that I can say no is me rebelling against the idea that the word, represents, which is that you are this thing and you can't say no to it. Y'all, that makes no sense. But that is how I feel sometimes.

Now, I say this, inventing, not inventing, being in a situation where you're wanting to be a good neighbor and a good member of society is at loggerheads with the fact that someone is using that term. It's an interesting place to be in. That's why it's kind of funny. It's kind of funny to be in a situation where you're actually the good person if you let a white man call you a nigger. Because that is what

white people try to say. That's what white supremacy tries to say, shall I say. Well, white supremacy tries to say is, hey, it's just a word. The right thing to do is to get called a nigger by somebody and be like, ah, whatever. They've been trying to make that case for a long time. And this is actually a situation where the case seemingly from a, you know, situation of social responsibility or trying to be elevated where it has merit.

And all I'm saying is, if that's the plan, if Michael B. Jordan and Diorre Lindo got to be called niggas on stage at the BAFTA Awards to be good people. If that's the current plan, I'm telling people, we need another plan. that plan is not going to work

I'm just like you know that plan is not sustainable there needs to be another plan and to Rachel's point we haven't thought about it we haven't looked into it we haven't really think about it because I don't know about this movie

or whatever's going on with it but if y'all think that Delroy or Michael or Autumn or Ryan is going to be walking up on stage because obviously this guy's not getting invited to NAACP Awards to AFCA Awards. You know what I mean? The Pan African Film Festival to the American Black Film Festival.

It would be funny if they did invite them. That would be hilarious. But if you think that they all, if Womi is going to walk up on stage and be on stage and that from the crowd, somebody's going to be yelling nigger at her and we're going to be like, everybody?

Okay, no, just, you know, that's not going to happen. So I'll just. truce for right now think of plan B what do you think about the fact that they that this aired hour like this was filmed or recorded hours before it aired over here and they were they bleeped out free Palestine

but not the N-word come on man y'all got to do better as an award show come on man as an war show like again it's just I know but it's just like this is where I'm directing all my energy towards. You did not protect the black community at all.

And it feels like you didn't care to. That's what that feels like. It was an opportunity. Everything for black people is an opportunity to learn why we should be called niggas. Everything is an opportunity to learn. America has been trying to teach us why we some niggas for a long time. And the number one

lesson that America has been trying to teach is that you are niggers. So everything, there's never going to be a, there's always going to be a good time to remind black people that they are niggers, always. That lesson will always be right there. Hey, you're niggers because somebody else has a disability. Your niggers because somebody has free speech.

Your niggers because you're violent. Your niggers because you're criminals. Your niggers because you're over-sexed. America's always going to try to teach us why we are niggers. And why we shouldn't react. so strongly went called by that because that's what's happening on social media. Guys, no, they're considering other people's feelings more than black people's feelings. And that's what seems to not be resonating with the other side of it.

It's funny. It's almost like you guys, you just deal with it. We can move on off this, but it's funny. It's like the overall, I guess, lesson from this is that there's a group of people that can't stop calling black people niggers. There's nothing they can do to stop. I'm like, yeah, I get it. I know. I don't even know if it's that as much as it's just.

No, that is, what you know, that's exactly what the thing is. I guess the other side of it too is your pain will always be minimized to. Yeah, I'm not talking about that. What I'm talking about is like legitimately what I just. No, no, no, no. That's what I'm taking away from it. The science of it, no, I'm not, forget about what I'm taking away from it. The science legitimately says the science of it, like what people is that they can't help it.

Like they can't help it. Like they, so that's what I'm saying. So like that part is the beginning of, what I'm saying on the back end of it is, that, the reason why that explanation doesn't go anywhere with me is because that's the explanation that has always been used

in just like a different form. Like we can't help but niggerize you. Like we're, like you will be niggerized. I wasn't trying to like, I wanted to make sure that I was clear in like what I was saying. I wasn't saying that like,

But the reality is that where even though intellectually those things are for different reasons, that's the same thing that has been said. So that's why it's not going to go anywhere with me now. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. No, no, no. I get you. I'm just saying also for me, the way that it is being litigated, it just raises a whole

another thing in how other people treat black people when they're saying that they're offended or upset about something. That is all that pain is minimized or excused. Dismissed. Last thing I'll say before we get off this, there are many slurs. Try it with some of the other ones. Okay.

Okay. All right. Just saying there are many, look, we're being asked to have a lot of patience about it. I get it, I understand it.

Just try it with some of the other slurs. You're not going to the award show. Okay. I just want to let you know. Try it with some other ones. You're not invited to the award show. You won't be there. Okay.

We won't be having a sit down societally. Just try it with some of the other slurs. You're not going to the show. All right. Donnie, next headline. Yeah, let's switch to music. Teddy Riley, he walked back earlier comments that he made about wanting to work with R. Kelly. Those comments were in a interview with L.A. Times last week,

where he said that he talked to R. Kelly a couple of times and that he is bringing in investors. to help release some portion of the 25 albums that Kelly has reportedly recorded while in prison. Teddy, what are you doing, bro? Like, Teddy. Why? Why? Why? Why?

I think I have, I think I know why. Go ahead. Help him. Try to help him out. I'm not trying to help him out. Okay. First of all, I love Teddy Riley. You love Teddy Riley, don't you?

What's your favorite Teddy Riley song? I like That's the one I like is the top I love that song I like it too but I mean I just That's a good one That's literally I love that song

It's a good one Okay so look It's just because it's like yours No I just expect it Okay no I get it He's got a lot of hits Okay Teddy Riley So this is what I think

That's guy but you know Yeah it's guy Teddy Riley Everything that Teddy Riley is on It's Teddy Riley This is what I think I think I think that

This statement and what Teddy Riley said. He said he's bringing in investors to help release some portion of the 25 albums R. Kelly has recorded in prison. He wants to get this music out. I don't think this is a money grab because I don't think Teddy needs it, right?

I think that there are two things happening here. One is just simply a lot of older people, a lot of older brothers in the music industry, just have relationships. and the relationships that they have, it's difficult for them to reconcile people, their view of the people that they have these relationships with.

You see that all the time. You see brothers in industry go, hey, I've known this person this is 1987. Know this person this is 1987. That means you have a different relationship to them and you're wondering why people look at this person in this way. But there's another thing, too, that I think exists. I think that Teddy Riley and a lot of,

people that came along at that time don't really understand how robust the conversation is right now surrounding celebrities and people's misdeeds. Because people have always has misdeeds

and then we've always gotten over this stuff. Say this all the time. If you go back and you look at like James Brown's Wikipedia is crazy. If you look at some of the lives that these people's lead, it's crazy. And I think that if you got popping in the 80s, around the time that Tilly Riley got

popping or in the 90s, there was a certain cultural understanding of the menaces that some of these people are or the profound problems in their personal lives that we kind of didn't give a fuck about like that. We kind of talked about things, but like we really didn't give a fuck. Like people really didn't fucking care. I would hear stuff from my mom. I would hear stuff from my mom just like, just like almost quaintly. Like Jim Brown pushed a woman off of a balcony or stuff like you just hear that kind of stuff and like no one, it wouldn't be something that would be like, oh, we can't watch

any Jim Brown movies or we shouldn't look at Jim Brown. They would just say stuff like that and then it would just be there. Like almost like, oh, you know he ain't all that. He pushed that woman off that balcony, whatever, whatever. I think guys that came along at that time, it's still hard for them to accept that things are different. It's hard for them to accept that a lot of the stuff now, people aren't just going to casually gloss over it. And not only are they not going to casually gloss over it, when you say you're about to put the records out, they're going to be like, why are you trying to change our

opinion of R. Kelly? Like, are you then endorsing the things that R. Kelly has been convicted of? Like, do you, are you with him? Like, to me, producing albums, putting out R. Kelly stuff. It's like going to the Epstein Island at this point. It's like, what are you trying to do? So I think that legitimately, Teddy Riley was probably surprised at the response that he got from this

because I think that older guard of guys, I think they still looking at shit. They think that these terrible things have happened and that eventually people will get over them. Not in 2026. I'm not cutting you anything in 2026. There's no way to me that Teddy Riley is still holding

if Teddy Riley is still holding on to that to what you just said it is because he has his feet in the ground and wants to be defiant in that way and not because he doesn't understand it I'm sorry in 2026 I just can't cut him any bell for that he goes on before

I know Donnie didn't read him taking it back but he says the reason he wants to find investors and collaborate with him and work with him and he's been having conversations he says everybody deserves a second chance chance. This whole second chance rhetoric centers around the perpetrator and not around the survivor's trauma. And like when I hear Teddy Riley be so dismissive of what R. Kelly is in jail for, you are in no way considering, you're just looking at R. Kelly and you're not considering

all the people that were impacted directly by what he did and other survivors of who have been impacted by sexual assault and abuse. Like I just have. such, it's, I don't even want you to read Donnie, his apology or his statement because I feel like that is just a publicity statement that you put out or somebody from your team wrote for you and put out because you saw the backlash that was out there because it's just hard for me to believe that you had absolutely no concept of understanding how controversial this announcement in this collaboration or potential collaboration could be. Because when you say, I just want to give him a a second chance. Everybody deserves a second chance. I just want to run down some things,

since we want to focus on the second chance part. Before R. Kelly was even in jail, he had faced so many allegations of sexual abuse and assault. In February of 2019, he was charged with 10 counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse, and nine of those counts involved a minor between the ages of 13 and 16 years old. In May of 2019, he faced 11 new charges. These were four counts of aggravated criminal sexual assault, two counts of criminal sexual assault by force, and five counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse, three of the five involving minors.

July, same year, he faced federal charges of 13 count indictment. The list goes on and on and on. There was a charge in Minnesota. that was dropped. There were superseding indictments, both on the state and on the federal level. Or maybe they were both on the federal level, sorry, in Illinois and New York. What number am I up to? We're past second chances when it comes with R. Kelly. I don't even know how many charges I just named. And he is now facing, or he now has been convicted and he is in jail for 30 years. And there's another 20-year thing that most of that 20-year thing that most of that 20-year thing. currently with this 30-year thing. So Teddy Riley, you are not that ignorant. You are not that

like naive to what R. Kelly has done. We are on like our 50th chance when it comes with R. Kelly if you decided to potentially collaborate with him. So when I look at that and I put all that together, that is just you choosing to turn a blind eye and ignore the impact of R. Kelly, the terror of R. Kelly. And rather than trying to protect and hold on to this image that you have of R. Kelly from the 80s, 90s, early 2000s, how about you try to protect people in our community from a predator and a monster like R. Kelly? That's the narrative we need to be talking about and focusing on. So I really don't care what statement Teddy Riley put after out after because I just, with all of that just out there in your face, and even if you don't

know, all the different charges that I named, all the different states on both state and federal level that he has been charged and convicted with, you know that our Kelly is a predator. There have been documentaries, there have been firsthand accounts, there have been people in the industry that have spoken out, there have been podcasts, there's so much information. And you want us to just be like, okay, you're right, we're just going to accept what you did.

Or we're just going to accept the fact that you not just made a statement that you wanted to collaborate. You are actively trying to do it. This is my point. So Number one, it wouldn't have actually even mattered How many times, to me, I'm just saying to me How many times R. Kelly has been convicted

of child sex stuff? Yeah, yeah. Number one, you don't get a second chance for that. No, you don't. Okay, so that's number one. There's a lot of things you get a second chance for, you can get a second chance for actually killing someone to me before you get a second chance

for like molesting a, child killing a kid doing or doing stuff to children. There are people I know that are involved in gang stuff that are involved in bad situations have actually taken lives. And I personally would be sooner to give second chances to those people. All kinds of, I believe in second chances. I believe that once you go to jail, I wouldn't be fighting things like recidivism and stuff like that if I didn't believe that.

Of course I believe in second chances. I also believe that there was a specific pathology that existed with R. Kelly for such a long time that R. Kelly doesn't need to be rehabilitated in the culture of the court of public opinion, right? Because he puts black girls in danger. Now, everything that you just said

is not in conflict with what I said at all. I know. So, like, what I'm saying is that because to me, if Teddy Riley, so there's either two things. Either Teddy Riley understands everything that you just said, and he went, fuck,

and I'm going to work with R. Kelly again, because I believe the second chances. If that's the case, I actually don't think that he would have backed off of it. If he was so gung-hoed to do it because he wanted to in some way either give R. Kelly that second chance or spice things up, I think that he probably would have gone through with it

because he had to have known that deciding to work with R. Kelly at this time was going to be controversial. I honestly think, and this is the deal, it's not even an ignorance as much as it is not even an... It is an ignorance. It's an ignorance to the fact that people have drawn

a line in the sand culturally the way they didn't in the past. Sure. Like there's a new set not when I say a new set I mean it might not even be new put it to you like this social media and the existence of the internet has allowed people to make celebrities and heroes out of people with niche audiences right right now in 1988 if 500,000 people liked you it really didn't matter that much right because the thing would be could you get 500,000 people to come out to a concert

and pay actual money. Could you get 500,000 people to buy a CD to like go to the store and buy it? Could you get 500,000 people to go to the movies and all of that stuff? You don't need any of that stuff. If you are on social media right now selling something and you got a half a million people that are fucking with you, that means something to a lot of people, right? You have a constituency. They don't have to buy nothing.

They don't have to go anywhere. All they have to do is do something they would be doing anyway, which is see if video of you talking or something of you talking and press play, right? So it has allowed people to like find community with people like that. What it is also done is set this granite solid trail of people's misdeeds. Like the information is right there. You type R. Kelly into the goddamn thing. You get music and you get misconduct. So people are not going to. You know, to forget. They used to forget. They used to forget the comedians that were 40 years old that had 17 year old girlfriends. Like they used to they used to forget that stuff. It used to be

that you could move on from terrible things and you can't do it as easy anymore. These older guys for whatever reason and gals because I could talk about some of our favorite women in this space that were very close to guys who were predators and known predators and have been very fucking, I don't even know what the word is. They've been very accepting of what those guys have done for a long time. The older you are, the more difficult it is sometimes to me

for people to deal with the fact that people not going for this type of shit anymore. It's not an excuse that I'm giving to, Teddy Riley as to why he came out there and decided to work with Arkellie. It was a stupid fucking thing to do. It's an explanation and it is the moment that he

fucking found out that you can't do that. Like that people are not going to be like, yeah man, Kales fucked up. Boys will be boys. Now, let's bring them back in the fold. That's never going to happen. And it shouldn't. That's never going to happen.

And once every fucking couple of years one of the old heads one of the people that's up they get reminded of it and when he did this I laughed because I was like yo Teddy

what was because Teddy's on a run right now he's talking about a lot of things I'm like was it too quiet he's got a book I'm like Teddy is it too quiet is it is it did you want to get people going a little bit did you want to because I know that we're not

there's nobody that's going to have a conversation there's some diehard Rakelly fans but Rkelly's gone he's not coming back Right. And it doesn't matter who could produce it. Moses could produce it, right? He's not coming back.

Yeah, I don't think that he, you know, your point to saying, you don't think that he was like, I want to make music with our, our Kelly deserves a second chance and I want to make music with him, so I'm going to do it. You said that the fact that he put out this statement after, you don't think that it was as, I guess the way that I described it of,

he definitely, if he was going to, if he had that mentality, just done it anyway, but the fact that he put this out, you think that that necessarily wasn't the case. The only reason I would disagree with that is because I think if it affects your pockets, then you're going to change your mind. And so I still believe that he wanted to make music with R. Kelly. So he was going to make music. And the only reason he changed his mind is because somebody, whether it was an investor, whether it was the fact, hey, you got a book coming out, the people didn't really respond well to this. You need people to buy this book, not be against you.

It's like, well, now I got to put out a statement. That's what I think. I do not think that this was him being, I don't think he was naive or ignorant. I think he wanted to do it. He tried it. He realized you can't do it anymore, to your point. And it realized it was going to hurt him as an individual,

as an entrepreneur, as an author, as a musician. Well, I mean, once again, this is the fundamental difference between, I guess, the way we see things, right? I don't know that he So there's a, I guess If I understand it, you're saying that like There was some either Cynicism or sinister intent in doing this from the beginning

And it still remains, the only thing that's changed Is that people are not going for it. I think yes, I think he, because of him saying It wasn't like, hey guys, I want to work with R. Kelly. It's like I've had most conversations with him. I'm looking at investors. I'm talking about collaborating. He wanted to do this.

Without a doubt. He put time in to possibly make this work. Right. Last thing I say is, you know, I was having a conversation with someone, and the conversation was about the I'm Black and I'm Proud album. Not the song. I'm to tell you how I was talking to. I was talking to the great FD signifier.

And FD brought something up. James Brown, according to FD, didn't want to make, I'm Black and I'm Proud. James Brown was a pro kid. is what FD told me. Okay. He said that that James Brown

didn't want to make the record. But James Brown felt like he needed to make it. He had to make the record because that was the sentiment of the culture then. 1968. That was the sentiment of the culture then.

The sentiment of the culture was that, guess what? We are black and we are proud. And even though that James Brown was a Republican, might have had conservative leanings, might have voted from whomever or wanted to vote for whoever, he wanted to make something that resonated with the artist, with the audience, yes, I say.

Why do I bring that up? I bring that up because, in my opinion, what happened to Teddy Riley and what was supposed to happen to Teddy Riley is a miscalculation by Teddy Riley, by what the audience would accept, but it's also what's supposed to happen. What I'm trying to convince people is that it is less, to me, at least,

about the personal morality of these people that we are talking about and whether or not they are good people or not. If you start walking around, look, to all my friends in this town and stuff like that, I love y'all. If you start walking around looking for the good people

that are out here, that are doing this stuff, God damn y'all going to disappoint yourselves. When I say good people, I mean good people by the way that you judge good people. Really what they just are or just people? People like all of us who fuck up, make mistakes, who lie all the time, who backbite all the time, they just different in what they lie and what they backbite about. Right. You might lie about sleeping with your brother-in-law, your mother-in-law, or whatever.

They lie about who they working with or what they're doing or the deals that they make. So I don't believe that there's, what I do believe, though, is that with people like Teddy Riley, there's an extra added piece of this. And that piece is that you as a group of people that have to buy this stuff can really make him do what you want him to do or stop him from doing the thing that you don't think that he should be doing by saying, hey, we're not going for that. And so that to me is what Teddy Riley kind of found out here was. the limit of what an audience will accept. He might be in a place

with a bunch of older people because there are a bunch of people out there and still listen to R. Kelly, I separate the man from the music, all of that stuff. Even in the circles of like, you've heard other people say. Like, R. Kelly is still the king. Arkelly is still the best.

We don't want to take that away from him and all of that stuff. He might have found out that this is not a viable thing to do. We spent too much time on this, but I think it was interesting. That's all I'm saying. I understand what you're saying, but whether or not Teddy Riley is an asshole or not, to me,

he could be, but what to me it looks like it happened is he threw something out there that he thought would fly with people, and then he learned that we're not trying to fucking fuck with that type of shit. It's interesting. He supported, James Brown supported a Democrat in 1968, and then supported Richard Nixon after that. So he was...

When the song came out, he was... at least publicly still a Democrat. He was a Trump Obama voter. He's a Obama Trump voter. I guess. That's what FD said. So look, but even if you take that framework, if you take that framework in terms of,

which is why I'd rather the conversation, not rather, which is why I think it's normally more substantive to have the conversation around these people be systemic because they're not really even people. Like they're not people. Like we judge, that when we the celebrities that we look at and the people that were they're not really people

they're like we hold them both to a higher standard than we do to regular people right that's true and then at and then on the backside of it we expect them to make decisions that like we don't make that like other people don't make so the best thing to do is to use your power as their audiences to like make them make those decisions what happened to teddy teddy what the fuck is teddy doing You want to have him on a show? Teddy Ryder. I'm okay. You don't want to have Ted Ryan on the show?

I'm okay. He apologized. Because he had to. He apologized. So you can't listen to I like anymore? What about this? Think about... Well, I like his guy, so...

Well, shit, Aaron Hall. That's Teddy Rock. Never mind. You guys. You guys, you can't do it. I'm just letting you guys know. Go ahead. You can try.

You can try to have the... These are the good people that we want. want to support. And I would just say, look at yourself. Look, she likes it. You can't. It's everybody was just doing that thing. You can try, but it's going to, you're going to frustrate yourself. Just what I'm saying? Take it from me. Nigger, I know. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

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40 grams of protein. Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweetgreen wraps hit different. Order now at order.com. Oh, Gavin Newsom. Yeah, let's stick to the topic of backlash because he is getting some as well. Yeah, he sat down with Atlanta mayor,

Andre Dickens as part of his book tour, and this exchange has been doing the rounds online. You know, I'm not trying to impress you. I'm just trying to impress upon you. I'm like you. I'm no better than you. You know, I'm a 960 SAT guy. And, you know, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, you know, trying to act all there if you got 940. But literally a 960 SAT guy. I cannot, you, you've never seen me read a speech. because I cannot read a speech. So he's talking to black people

and they said that he said, he said, you dummies, you're dumb. And that I'm like you because you're dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. Yeah, that was the takeaway. That's what they said. That's what they said. I, even before I saw some of the other stuff that's come out about it,

I felt like the you was understood, but I think the problem with like, a like an understood you. I didn't think that he was directly targeting it to black people. I think he got caught up in trying to be relatable. And his you, which would normally work in a diverse or mainly white audience, it lands differently when you're talking to black people. You're talking to a black audience. You're in Atlanta. You're talking, you're on stage being interviewed by a black mayor. People are going to take that you. You say, I'm like you. So of course, that's the way that it lands. I understood that he was trying to say it as I understood you.

But back to my point, I feel like this is the problem. You know, we know what Joe Biden said. If you ain't black, you know, blah. However he said it. If you don't vote for me, you ain't black. If you don't vote for me, you ain't black. Like, it's this issue with when you have these white Democrats trying to come in, men, I'll say, we're really just white Democrats, period.

But coming in and try, because I've used the examples where Biden, and Newsom, but they come in and they're trying to be so relatable and it gets, it comes off the wrong way. And so I think, feel like that's what's happened here. And that's what I was trying to give the Biden example because we've seen it happen before. I don't think that his intention, Biden's intention was as bad as his was worse. But I don't think Gavin Newsom's intention was bad because as I'm sure you'll point out, he said it before. But you have to understand who you're talking to. And to me, him spitting out points that he's used before and not realizing who he's talking to also highlights a problem of, you're just talking to me like a politician and you're not

talking to me in a way that speaks directly to me or resonates with me. You're on stage trying to say, I'm like you, but you're using the same example that you use to another audience. No, if you are trying to relate to me as a black person in a black community, then I need you to talk to me in a different kind of way. And then him trying to talk in the way that he talks to everybody got him caught up. And although I don't think

that that's what he was trying to say, I understand how people can take it that way. And I think it's a lesson for a Gavin Newsom or any white Democrat politician that's going to be talking to black people and you feel like you're trying to be on their level. You need to, it shows how disconnected you truly are. And this is an example of that.

Wow. Donnie. Oh, you thought I'd say something different? I didn't know. You went in. I like that shit. Donnie, can we, can you should, showed the picture that I just put in the chat

that's the audience that's the audience I thought they said it was black that they did they said it that's the audience they got me so so go down this is the audience he was talking to okay so there's black people in there

but it wasn't a black audience shit no well had it been a black audience then my point would have been a black audience then my point would have been but this is this is the reason why I had this by the way this just popped up this wasn't in there because we, like, this just popped up. Now, go down. Also, Donnie, play the clip that I put in the,

but what would you like for us to take away from that? What would you like for the reader to know more intimately about you and how those two separate lives that you had together and the tough decisions you made and the risk that you had to take? And even growing up with dyslexia and all that, like, what do you want us to take from that and where you are today?

So then Gavin goes on, he does the same thing that I do and that he did on this podcast, which is talk for 17 minutes straight. Okay. So number one, the audience didn't seem to be, he's talking to a black mayor, but the audience didn't seem to be, when I say this just popped up. I mean, I just, I'm on Twitter right now, scrolling around, and Tim Miller just put this up, right?

number one it didn't seem to be a black audience in the way that like we that social media that's been reported number one number two he legitimately was asked and the question that preceded this back and forth about his dyslexia which would then prompt him to do the same boring shit he did with charlie kirk or other people and said i got a 960 SAT now i will say that i have a separate criticism. First of all, I whooped his ass on the SAT. But I will say that separately,

did I? I take the SAT? My PSAT. Whatever. Like it, hmm. But like... You have to take the SAT. Well, ACT, Louisiana. Oh, is it ACT? Yeah, yeah, ACT. But we took it and gifted. You could have done either one. We took it and gifted, yeah. But

Gavin Newsom to your point, same lazy shit that politicians do that we don't like, hey, I am a 960 SAT, which means I'm the average American. I'm the average American because I'm of slightly average to above average intellect that I would make a 960 on the SAT. That's the overall point.

You know, I agree with you that that is a poor attempt to every man himself. by saying I'm basically stupid like the rest of you guys. Not stupid. You're not stupid if you have a non-s. But average. But average of the rest of you guys. Or saying that there's nothing intellectually special about me that denotes that I should be ruling you. I'm one of you guys.

I'm somebody that had to, you know, really work hard to get that on the SAT, overcome all of these pitfalls, get into college and do all of this stuff. I think that that kind of flies in the face of. what I believe the plight of the average American to be right now, which is not intellect. I think the plight of the average American is opportunity. The plight of the average American is whether or not you can make enough money at the job that you are working, whether or not you are an unharvested genius or a 960 SAT score type of person, whether or not there are enough opportunities out there, enough jobs out there, whether

not you have proper health care, whether or not you have proper protection, your voting rights are secure, your wages are growing, proper housing, all of that stuff, proper nutrition. Those are, to me, the things that make you an average American, and those are things that Gavin Newsom cannot agree with those people in the audience on or any other average American. He lives a life, it's totally different than them. So the question is, the fact that you live a life totally different from them, what do you see in your life or in your vision of this country that makes you want to work specifically for them. I'm just like you because I struggle on the San I's test to me is not a thing.

But there's no part of this in no way shape or form in any way in no way that was racist. No way. Yeah, I agree. I actually score one for the right here. Y'all saw Gavin Newsom talking to a black man. Y'all saw Gavin Newsom in a black city and y'all went, we're going to. find something to kick his ass on and on a Monday morning they found something and they got it. And not just the right was on this.

People to my left that saw the opportunity to attack the centrist, corporatist, Democrat, Gavin Newsom also took this opportunity to be like, look at how shitty he is. Fine. It's politics. No problem with it. No problem. Politics. No problem with it. No problem with it.

I'm not a Gavin Newsom guy who came on the podcast, although he changed his tune. Shout out to Ryan Graham and the people over there at Dropside. I guess he was talking to Adam Mockler and he said that he would keep his distance from APEC. Gavin, we helped you.

You're welcome. But what I would say in this situation is this was a master class, a master class, at how I believe that the actual and real concerns of black Americans as far as racism, race politics, and who we are, are being whipped around in this election like never before. There is a reckoning that is coming,

and that reckoning that is coming is only going to be fought or only going to be had if us as people truly negotiate and litigate what hurts us for real. I get it and I understand it. The moment I saw this,

I went back and watched the entire interview which is why I was able to pull the question out. I watched the whole interview because even the clip I was like, what's going on about? I was like, I'm going to watch the interview from front to back. And if it's time to give Gavin Newsom a kick in the news, over him saying remember the

the jerk chicken thing from the breakfast club who said that? Lee Zeldon. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Charlemagne asked Lee Zeldon about what he was going to do for black people and Lee Zeldon came back and he went you know, I was at the Jamaican jerk chicken fest with Angela this week and Shalemay went, bro,

ask you what you're going to do for black people you talk about Jamaican jerk chicken. I'm with it every day at a week. I'm with it when Joe Biden did it with it. but I will let people know that there was a coordinated effort by certain accounts, certain accounts, some of them black, some of them the same old people, to genie up something that at the base of it, the core of it, was playing upon identity and black grievance with American politics. this was a very cynical attempt. I'm not in any way coming out. Y'all know how I feel.

We had Gavin on the podcast. Go listen to it. Not my type of candidate, right? I don't think that's what you're doing. This was a very cynical and overt attempt to something or nothing. And we got to watch out for that. Well, and, you know, I didn't, I know you said you just saw it when I was talking about. I literally, by the way, nobody's trying to play, Rachette.

Because that like legitimately just hit my timeline. And I'm only circling back into it. Thank you for saying that. I'm only circling back to it because in my initial comment, I said, I understood that it was an understood you without even seeing, assuming the audience was black because that's how it was reported. I wasn't assuming it was reported it was black. But I still hold the same truth in what I said because I too didn't take the narrative.

I didn't see that or hear that clip and say, oh my gosh, Gavin Newsom, he's a racist. you know or oh we got him he's not who he pretends to be i understood what he was trying to say but i do think it is i still hold that true i think it is a lesson of like you've got to find a way to relate to people like you've had a really good point about a 960 average SAT score is not the way to relate to the average person it's not intellect anymore i do think this is a lesson of you cannot be so lazy in your way of trying to relate to american citizens or to voters You have to be better than that because people are a little bit more on top of it now

and are more vocal and educated about what their needs are. So that's not going to fly. Listen, what did Gavin Newsom go to college? He went to say, I just was looking that up, Santa Clara State or Santa Claus-something State. Santa State. He was also there. He was out there.

Santa Clara University. Strait of University. Bachelor of Science. And then he founded a boutique, winery pump jack group in Oakville with billionaire air

and family friend Gordon Getty as an investor Yeah I mean his dad did legal work for Gordon Getty So look you guys You know let's go back to it Okay Let's go back and have a conversation Just talk about it It's the part of it that you just got to point out

You have in a 960 SAT score is one thing Okay we understand that okay maybe we're a little bit maybe people are a little smarter maybe they're a little bit behind you but let me tell you what didn't and I saw

when I watched this shout out to Mayor Dickens Dickens Dickinson Andre? Andre Dickens It's Andre Dickens right is Andre Dickens or Dickens now I'm questioning

Is Andre Dickens Andre Dickens Andre Dickens Andre Dickens the mayor of Atlanta Keep going shout out to him because as Gavin was talking about his book if you watch the whole back and forth as Gavin was talking about his book he talks a lot about his mom's side Gavin tells the story

about going up there and like going through his mom's files and finding out that this entire time the after school program that he was going to was actually dyslexia um like therapy. He was actually going to therapy for his dyslexia. It's a very interesting story. Kind of, you know, whatever. But Mayor Dickens actually points out during the interview, he goes, well, you know, you had your mom's side. And then you had your dad's side that was connected to the Giddy family. So he, he in a way goes, all right, Gavin, the every man thing, we get it. But it's partly horseshit. It is. That to me, when I look at this, is yes, I had a 960 SAT. True. Put you in like the 40th percentile, right?

A lot of people have 960 SATs, apparently. Like 40th percentile. You're a solid American person. You're going to college. You get into a decent college. If you work hard, you will be okay. No. That's not.

No. Maybe. But if you want to be, be the governor, it would help to have the Getty family invest in Pumpjack Group so that you can then start a business. It would help to be born in proximity to American capital and power. What I would rather hear somebody like Gavin Newsom say, if I was being Vansom Newsom, I would rather say, you know what, I'm a regular guy, but I had a couple of breaks. I had a couple of breaks.

My family knew one of the, shout out to Balthazar Getty, who I know, by way, shout Balth. My family had some breaks that other families don't, and I want to make sure that is not the breaks that established the winners and losers in America. I had a break, so what I want to break is that system. So good.

So good. So, like, I just, one simple Google search shows that your family worked as an attorney for oil and is related to the Gettys. Like, why do they think that people are just going to be like, I'm just like that guy too? That was, that was great. And I bet we'll see somebody use what you just did. That was fantastic. It's never going to, it's not going to happen for me because of the whole, you know, like,

there's like a lot of Jenny Jackie. Oh, you thought I was telling you to run? Well, I mean, I've, I've thought about it, but it's not going to have. Right? Which office would you run? Which office have you been thinking about running for? I can't run for any of them. Which one were you thinking of?

I can't run because of Midori because of Janet Jack me, Jack me, because of all of these people that I've supported that I think are hard working in Americans. You said you thought about it. I've thought about it before. Huh? Which office? Just thought about running. You know, I thought about just breaking the system, just coming in all of my actively black and just not even running to run, but just running to, you know. To be a disrupt.

Just to disrupt it, just to make everybody loose and their tie a little bit. Well, then you should do that. No, I don't want to do it. Because, like, when they start looking at you different when you do that, they start, you know, going through all of this stuff. Now you fuck around and win, and then you'd be like, nah, it's never happen. Never happen.

But I'm saying, like, that's the thing when I saw all this, is like, people are concentrating on this perceived racial slight that Gavin Newsom was a part of when that's really not real. The actual slight is that Gavin Newsom is, up there after like he he's like you did you see mike huggerby on tucker carlson i saw some of it i couldn't finish watching the whole thing i watched i know you did i know you did i couldn't do two hours now i watched the whole thing the whole thing i guess my question is this donnie get into this yeah um mike huggerby drew some backlash from arab and muslim nations after some comments he made

on said uh show Tucker carlson show this is is what Mike Huckabee said. You've appealed to Genesis. Genesis 15 says it's Abram. It's pre-Abraim. It's Abraham. Receives from God the news that his descendants will inherit the land. And you tell me as the theologian, if I'm getting this wrong, but from the Euphrates to the Nile.

I think, I think that's right. And that would include, like basically the entire Middle East. That would be the Levant. So that would be Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon. would also be big parts of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. It would be, I mean... I'm not sure we'd go that far. I mean, it would be a big piece of land, but here's the point.

It would be a lot of places that are now countries. But this particular area that we're talking about now, Israel, is a land that God gave through Abraham to a people that he chose. It was a people, a place, and a purpose. We can look at it that way. Christian Zionism. I want to go back because that's where we started on this. I'm not going to let you off on this because you have said it three times that God gave this land to this people. And so it is entirely fair for me with respect to ask, what land are you talking about? Because I just read Genesis 15, as I have many times. And that land, I think it says from the Nile

to the Euphrates, which is once again, basically the entire Middle East. So God gave that land to his people, the Jews, or he didn't. You're saying, he did, what does that mean? Does Israel have the right to that land? Because you're appealing to Genesis. You're saying that's the original deed. It would be fine if they took it all. All right, obviously, there were a plethora of countries that were like, we're not into that, okay? So there was a joint statement signed by a list of countries, Jordan, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan. It said the ambassador to Israel's comments were dangerous and inflammatory,

which constitute a flagrant violation of the principles of international law and the charter of the United Nations imposed a grave threat to security and stability of the region. The U.S. Embassy and Israel insisted that the comments have been taken out of context by the states making the complaint. Yeah, I mean, and since Huckabee has tried to, well, one, blame Tucker Carlson for the interview, which I'm still shocked he sat down to do it. But then also he's trying to say it was taken out of context,

and, you know, that's, he ultimately is the one who can't make these decisions, these decisions fall under President Trump. Am I shocked that he said, I'm more shocked you did the interview, but am I shocked that within the interview? you that this is his stance? No. This is a man who, prior to taking the role that he did, his ambassador to Israel, talked about Palestinians, well, didn't acknowledge them, says that's the term we shouldn't even use. So he doesn't look at these people as human. He is not just a Zionist.

He is somebody, he was a, it's a Baptist pastor, ultra-conservative, and has said multiple times that even when he refers to the West Bank, he refers to it in terms of Judea and Samaria. Like that's the way that he used, he speaks of it in biblical terms. So it's not shocking to me that he would say that he would make this comment that he believes that Israel has the right to take over everything because he's saying he's, he's saying that that's what the Bible says. So I'm not shocked by it. Like this is who Mike Huckabee is. This was. And I mean, I guess in the bigger sense, maybe other people might be surprised to hear him saying.

something like this and maybe it brings up the whole conversation of are we are our politicians or politicians making these decisions or with power putting Israel first over America first I guess it brings that into question because it's like are you being more loyal to Israel based on your religion versus this country it feels like that in a lot of the things that he was saying in this interview and that he said prior so I think that that in 2020 is not as popular as it might have been in 1996. So I watched the whole thing. And the interview was them,

Pierce Morgan says, when somebody says something wrong, Pierce Morgan goes, I want to just catch you up on that. Sometimes British people say stuff in ways that's slightly cool. Well, because, yeah, they're like dry humor, sarcastic.

Well, I just mean the way that it's actually said, like, I want to catch you up. Oh, you, okay. Yeah, when someone says, I want to catch you up on that, or was someone taking the piss. I like taking the piss. Are you taking the piss? You know what that means?

Go to the bathroom? No. Does anybody know what that means when British people say it? Donnie? I take it as like taking the piss out of something. Like you're taking the piss out of the conversation. No, that's not what it means.

It means like, are you joking? Say it again. So, what's the phrase? Taking the piss. It means, are you joking? It's like, it's such a funny, stupid way to say that, though. It's like, are you kidding? So what are you eating, Jay?

Oh, grapefruit, you nasty. So, like, what? It's disgusting. This disgusting is just bust open a grape food and eat that bitch. And she's eating the white part on the top of it. You are eating the white part. She's filling it like an orange. Same thing that happens.

The pulp. It smells good. I can smell of me. Yeah, it smells good. Grapefruit is terrible. It sucks. It's a terrible fruit to eat. So good.

And good for you. Can I tell you something? Grapefruit. I got to get back on topic here. So when they say, when they say take the piss, they mean that you're joking. So I like that. I like that. This whole interview was Carlson catching Mike Huckabee up or them trying to catch each other up.

Because there was some type of back and forth that they had had before this. Yeah, on social. Yeah, social. Where basically they was like, yo, man, come do the interview. We could talk about it. And so Tucker and his people flew into Tel Aviv, not Tel Aviv. I don't know where they flew into Israel to do the interview. So it's interesting.

So that is the U.S. ambassador to Israel. This is the interesting thing about it to me. That's the U.S. ambassador to Israel. That is an official American diplomat. This is what Maga Trumpism has done. That is an official American diplomat. That is an American diplomat. That's not the deputy undersecretary's assistant to whomever.

That's not a contractor that works directly with the State Department. That is an American diplomat saying out loud on Mike that it would be okay if a country completely conquers all of its neighbors. and then kind of not understanding the backlash and response to that. That shows to me the disintegration of the word, the standing, the statement, and the intelligentsia of American foreign relations. because the president says ass hat shit like Canada should be the 54th state all the time

or the president says he wants to invade and take over Greenland which it would theoretically invoke Article 5 and make the rest of the NATO nations have to attack us like with it's so like all of those things just show the fact

that like there's been this real disintegration of the seriousness of American discussion of domestic and foreign events. Because if you are Saudi Arabia, don't you have to be like, if you, this is so, it's such a boneheaded, if you're Saudi Arabia, Turkey, any of these countries, don't you have to go, no, yeah, we don't,

want to be taken over by Israel, like just like you guys know, and we're going to fight, if that's the case. And the Americans shouldn't be saying that on Mike to people. Tucker fucking worked Mike Huckabee for two and a half hours. And it wasn't in any way, shape, or form of fair fight.

I am in no way, guys, because even in the article, Tucker, in the interview, Tucker says all kinds of shit that to me, I fucking hate. so many things that Tucker Carlson says that I hate that I've always hated but I tell you what if you go on there and you have that conversation you have better be ready to have your worldview completely unfurled to the basis of its origin I don't think he cared

because for Mike Huckabee, it is, as he said, he said it'd be fine if they took it all. But he's like, but that's not what we're talking about here. I don't want to take it over. They're not asking to take it over. But you're saying, but if they wanted to, you'd believe that that would be their right. And he would say, yes, because biblically it is.

I don't, I think that's, he doesn't want to be seen any different. That is his worldview. his worldview is rooted in what he believes the religion to be. Well, the only problem with that, that's fine. I agree. The only problem with that is that he's an ambassador, which means that his worldview, he doesn't get to talk and think and go,

yeah, I think that Israel should be able to dominate and take over the entire region, which, by the way, if we really look at it, if we go to war with Iran, there is fighting in Lebanon, you can make an argument that this is a goal that is being endeavored into by this current Israeli government, that they are fighting multi-front wars all over the region, and a lot of those wars are to destabilize parts of the Middle East so that they can expand territory. When he's, so, if you look at the plight of the palest,

Palestinian people as a cultural dispute, right, as a human rights issue. That's one thing. Cultural dispute between two different people's over land. If you look at it as domination from a foreign power on people who have less power and don't have a big brother like the United States, that's one way to look at it. But if you look at it in a completely different way, which is if you look at it in a way that paints Israel as an expansionist power, that is seeking to expand its borders, not just there, but into southern Lebanon, all over the place and what the parts of the Israeli government might think is their land by right of God. Then you look at a situation where just politically, politically, anyone with that worldview is destabilizing.

That means that you have to overthrow Iran. That means that you have to engage. in Forever Wars. And that means that you're going to need somebody to fund it. And the people that funded are us. So if, in fact, the ambassador to Israel is saying it will be fine

if this country and the United States of America established direct hegemony over the entire region by making one gigantic country that would then become like this mega country, it must be weird for the Saudis, all the work that they've done to be up under Trump and some of these other countries,

all the work that they've done, you know, some of these nations are Abraham Accordinations, all the work that they've done to kind of calm things down. And then to have Mike Huckabee say the quiet thing out loud like that, that must have been awkward. I mean, I feel like Huckabee, when we've talked about it, was chosen for a reason. Hux, Hux. The U.S. Embassy in Israel insisted the comments have been taken out of context by the states making the complaint. I don't see how that's possible.

It is true that Mike Huckabee said that he didn't think that the Israelis would do that. And they don't want to. And that they don't want to, but he also said he would be fine with it. And he also said he doesn't have the power to. That's a Trump thing. Power to what? To like make his beliefs come true.

Right. So he put that, he threw that out there as well. But as you said, Quiet Part out loud, I don't know. Tucker tried to catch him up on that as well. Tucker talked about a bunch of different things, you know, either you believe some of the stuff or you don't believe it, either

you've done some of the work or you don't believe it. Once again, yes, you know, whatever. It's like not a situation where I'm ever going to like start, you know, praising Tucker Carlson to the degree that a lot of people did. A lot of stuff in this Tucker Carlson was able to directly put Mike Huckabee on Front Street

and like confront him over some beliefs because some of these beliefs are are rooted in not policy or politics or what's good for the global community, but in this sort of evangelist, Christian Zionist view of the world that doesn't think about anything else

but the second coming of Christ and all that type of stuff. I don't know about Mexico and I don't know that much about it. I'll try to watch some videos. It's going down. It's, yeah. Oh,

Trump. We didn't even get to Trump. Do we all talk about him? Trump and Warner Brothers? I mean, he's doing it again. I guess this time he's doing it again where he's telling a network what they need to do and how they need to fall online. But this time, of course, he's also back to his regularly scheduled program by going after a black woman. Susan Rice.

The only black person on the board at Netflix. But not all. a whole lot to it. Netflix should fire racist, Trump, Doreen, Susan Rice, immediately will pay the consequences. She's got no talent or skills. Purely a political hack. Her power is gone and will never be back.

How much she'd be being paid? And for what? Thank you for the institution. Donald Trump. You know what I would do if I was Susan Rice? What is it? I would post pictures of me with white people. White?

L. whites? To show that I'm not racist. Because that's what he called her a racist. And when Trump was called a racist, he did a collage, a reel of all the black people that he's been connected to, famous black people, mainly, that he's been connected to over the years to prove how not racist he is. Or as his press secretary talks about, he has black friends. If I were, I'd do the same thing.

I'm not racist. I have white friends. Can I be real with you on that? That was effective to me. To who? It was just an effective thing to do. To who? let me tell you why I was effective

in my opinion it doesn't change the way I feel about Donald Trump it doesn't change the way anybody who has done to me how about this if you have racial self-esteem and you have some black consciousness probably wouldn't change the way you feel about Donald Trump but it exposes something that's deeper

right and what it exposes that whether or not Donald Trump was racist in the 80s in the 90s, whether or not he wrote what he wrote about the exonerated five, he was sued for housing discrimination in the 70s and all of that stuff. None of that stuff

stopped some element, some part black people in America were being around Donald Trump. And the reason is, is that they weren't being around Donald Trump because Donald Trump liked or loved black people.

They were being around Donald Trump because he was rich. Yeah. And we can talk as much as we want about our allegiance to ourselves, our allegiance to our culture, our allegiance to our ancestors, our allegiance to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, we care about each other. If our allegiance is to money, if our allegiance is to capitalism, if our allegiance is to the guy who can produce the thing so that we can do the deal, then I'm telling you we will fail.

That is not going to happen. There is not going to be anyone. who has a lot of money, we see that now, can't stop people from going on, Aidan Ross. Man, I saw Bud and Shakur criticize racism

while talking to Aiden Ross. Now, either Bud and Shakur, who are two guys that I love, I'm not a bigger boxing fan of any two guys fighting right now than I am of Terrence Crawford, who is one of the most deadly and efficient boxers

I've ever seen. You've almost never seen anyone like him as Shakura Stevenson who just put on a master class uh against um a Tfema Lopez but they legitimately criticized racism in front of the guy right what we do here at Spotify we're at Spotify we're at Spotify's big corporate situation all of this stuff like I am in no way not a part of this we talked about this with Jamil but what I'm saying is the reason why Trump can produce all of that. The reason why Mike Tyson is still like I left Donald Trump, the reason why Herschel Walker and all of these guys that have been around Trump for a long

time is because there was something in it for them because Trump had access, Trump had money, and Trump had power. So if we are fighting against or fighting for a sense of ourselves or a sense of community or a sense of us, we are eventually going to have to litigate how that can be purchased and bought and then leveraged against us at the right time. And not, just with people like Donald Trump, with people within our own community as well. We have to look at our relationship to Capitol and ask the questions about whether or not it serves us. So when he did that, I'm like, yeah, it's bullshit.

But at the same time, that's effective. Because if you can put yourself next to some of the most important black men in history, there are going to be smooth brains that ask the question, just how racist can you be? and the reason why those guys were around all of the men by the way most of them the vast majority of them although you might find an Oprah in there somewhere the reason why they were around is because Donald Trump is very rich

yeah I think though if it was effective I think those people that you're talking about who would have accepted that would have already defended them but what those people would have already said he wasn't racist Mike did Mike what Mike Tyson did Mike Tyson did No, I'm saying those people who would look at that post and say, oh, that, yeah, Trump can't be racist.

Those people would have said that prior to that. That's my point. Oh, okay. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for a doctor. with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,

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Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. restrictions apply, services not available in all areas. Scott Galloway, you like Scott Galloway? Professor Galloway. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I don't see much of him. I see clips sometimes, his thing with Carr-Swisher,

but, or they have a podcast together. Pivot, right? Yeah. Shout out to Carr-Swisher. But I'm not, like, well-versed in Scott Galloway. I'm not, like, taking it in his content like that, but I'm aware of who he is. He cares about the young men.

And that's good. He's, he's, uh, he's into the young men and thinking about them. Okay, like I am, thinking about their loneliness, their problems. And he said something that got a lot of people thinking. It's about El Beyonce. Did you see his clip? Mm-hmm. The reality is 75% of women say economic viability is important in a mate.

It's only 25% of men, right? Beyonce could work at McDonald's and marry Jay-Z, the opposite is not true. You will be disproportionately evaluated based on your economic viability. Figure out how to make money. Now, I have been probably addicted to it, and people have pointed out online that I see everything through the lens of money. I grew up without money, so it's always been important to me, probably too important. But I stand by the fact that as a man, if you are not economically viable, your self-esteem, your place in society, in a capitalist society, your ability to find a mate is going to be severely diminished. So we want to get a, in the best way to start making, to make a lot of money

is start making a little bit of money. I coach a lot of young men. I'm like, if you have a smartphone, you can make money. Tomorrow we're going to start. I don't care if you need to be a lift driver, Uber driver, task rabbiter, going to Panera bread where they're desperate for people and they start them at 18 bucks an hour. But once you start making a little bit of money, you're going to realize how wonderful it is. You're going to start figuring out the marketplace, but you need to get out and make money. You need to be a provider, first leg of a stool. What was, I understand exactly what he's saying. What was, I mean, like, did you think I would have a difference opinion?

No, no, no, no, no, no. No. Like, what was, I guess, like, really interesting to you about this clip? Because I think that most people would agree with what he say. Hell, nah. People was pushing back like crazy. By the way, we just got, they're giving away the Image Award tomorrow on YouTube. Tuesday, February 24th.

If you go to the YouTube channel, N-A-CP, M.A-A-C-E. Awards YouTube. They're going to announce all the winners. I don't know if voting is closed. I'm assuming that it is. It's closed. We'll see what happens tomorrow. Tuesday, February 24th, Tuesday. It says good look. Shout out to Stephanie. A lot of people

said that that wasn't true. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with Galloway's reputation as well as like centering men in all of these conversations. They don't like when he does it. They don't like him. I say, fuck him. I mean, I'm not as familiar with I guess his crusade.

of centering men is what people are saying, but I think that because of the system that exists in regards to the patriarchy, now, if you're asking me, like, do I feel bad? No, because this is a system that has been created by men. And now that it's 2026, and women aren't the same as they were when this system was created, and women are making more money.

money and they are they have better jobs at times than men that I understand how the the roles that the traditional roles that existed might be confusing and I think that things are turned upside down on their head but I that is a system they're falling I don't want to say victim but they're I guess it's a consequence of the very system that you created so I just I just I agree with what he's saying because of the traditional roles that exist within it. I do think there's an expectation of men and I think that

expectation comes from the patriarchy. Yeah. I mean for me I don't think what he said was controversial at all. I don't think either. I just don't feel sorry. I wouldn't say if you were asking like oh shit I feel because I was having this conversation

with someone when I saw this clip And it's like, if you're asking me to feel bad for men because there is this expectation, I don't feel that. But what I do feel is if I'm with a man who, or it's a friend maybe even, who might feel this way because of this system and feels like that they don't feel confident in themselves because they aren't economically viable

as he talks about this, then I wouldn't. shun that man away or I would be open and understanding that yeah like this is a system that exists and women don't operate the same way like they used to when this was created and I understand and hold space that you may feel that way but I don't feel bad for you but I think it would be wrong to dismiss a man who doesn't feel as secure because they're not economically viable I think that would be wrong of me to do I wouldn't dismiss the feeling because I do understand it exist, but I also understand why it exists.

So I think that that is the price of patriarchy. Yeah, I agree. It's a consequence. I think that's the, no, when I say consequence is not a, I think it's the price. When I say price, I mean, patriarchy, a lot of times when we criticize patriarchy, we're criticizing patriarchy in people who aren't qualified to patriarchy. So you can qualify to patriarchy. and when you qualify for it,

people have a lot less of a problem when you do it. So what I mean is like if... So let me tell you what I mean. When a bum-ass nigger thinks that just because he is male that he gets the same right to dictate things... High value.

High value. Okay. When a bum-ass nigger thinks that just because he is male, that he gets the same rights to dictate things as a rich guy does, it seems like sometimes people have a specific problem with that. They go, well, you know, you can't do this, you can't do that, you can't,

these aren't conversations for you, right? That is interesting, but it's actually not a criticism of patriarchy. Patriarchy is wrong no matter what does it. It's orienting a society, power structure around a man. Now, there is another method of thought

that you could endeavor into that says, for example, I'll use my father. I always talk about these great lessons that my father gave me. There's another lesson that my father gave me. It's like, me and my father starting to buckheads. I'm getting to be big man.

Is it buckheads or buttheads? We're bucking horns. Bucking horns, we're budding heads. Me and my father are budding heads. right and I tell my dad I say I'm a man my dad says 17 yeah 17 my dad goes you're not a man I'm like why am I not a man my dad goes because a man doesn't take care of another man so you're not a man when you can take care of yourself then you are a man so you have to achieve something economically to be a man.

Now, back in the day, or in other cultures, that wasn't like that. There was a right of passage for you to become a man, to enter into manhood into whatever organization, tribe, village, whatever you're in. And those things normally had to do with things that you could then capably do at that age, whether or not you could capably survive this thing

or capably do this or capably do all that. There are things that you had to do to access your manhood, but it didn't have anything to do with whether or not you owned a tree, whether or not you owned anything. I remember talking to him about that after we calmed down. I asked him, I'll go, you know, when you've talked about manhood to me before, you said that a manhood, manhood was about protection. That's what my dad would say.

My dad would say, hey, when somebody walk, when you walk in the room, people should be like, yo, ah, vans here. Like, we feel a little bit better. We feel safer. man who's about responsibility, who you can protect, who you can do all of that stuff. And I'm like,

is it about protection or is it about my ability to take care of myself? And my dad goes, a man doesn't protect another man. So like, a man doesn't protect another man.

If you are a man, you are self-sufficient economically. You are self-sufficient in terms of protection. Dad was wrong. Yeah. Okay? And love him to death.

It's the time they grew up. Yeah, like dad was wrong. Love him to death. Love them to death. That was just simply wrong. Now, here's the deal. The way our society is oriented, the more stuff you can pay for, the more you can decide what it is that we're going. Think about this.

Degender this. If you are with your friends and y'all all going to dinner. and y'all can't decide where to go if one of your friends went I'm gonna pay for the dinner but if we go to this one place everybody's probably going to go yes if you are treating us

you can decide where we go if you're treating us you can decide there's a part of the patriarchy that we talk about that exists that is I mean it's all bad but there's a part of it that is sort of

what's the word it's either understood or accepted for rich guys for rich guys rich guys that are seen as valuable something that is seen as a dominant something that is seen as

worthy something that is seen as rare because you're rare if you can provide for everyone you're rare if you can in not just money, but jobs, opportunity, power, all of that stuff. The fact that we acquiesce to that reinforces patriarchy.

Of course. And so, like, to me, I don't have a problem with what Scott's saying because it's just real, right? Yes, it's the system. There's also one other thing, and I want to ask you about this. Yeah, you're changing the subject?

No, no, no, no. Okay, because I was going to say the most. Oh, go for it. Well, no, no, no, no. Go ahead. All right. Can we talk about this? Jay, women out there that are listening to the sound of my voice,

can we talk about something? What? Okay. Can we talk about the fact that a lot of times when women say that they're attracted to women to men with money, that they're not lying, that their pussy really gets wet for these guys. Like that there's something, like, so there's something else. Yes, having money is an attractive trait. Like being handsome is an attractive trait.

Like being funny is an attractive trait. trait. So sometimes people are reluctant to talk about the fact that though they see women with guys who are not, because men and women have, they're oriented different ways.

They see women with guys who other guys. It's always funny when guys who are supposed to be completely oblivious to each other, each other's beauty, to when they see a guy who they think

is ugly but rich. You're not, you're both not supposed to be able to look at a man and be like, hey, that nigga's beautiful. But you know when he's too ugly to be with the girl that he is with, right? It's very funny the way all of this stuff is oriented. But when they see that, they go,

she's just with him for money. Not always and not a lot. The fact that this guy is powerful or that he means something or that he's got bread, women are legitimately attracted to that. But that seems to be something

because we call a lot of people gold diggers, but they're not gold diggers in every sense. They are women that are attracted to guys with means and they're really attracted to them. Yeah, I think gold digger, I mean, I agree. I think gold digger comes from, if you only are, like, scram get away from me,

you know, like this is the only thing that I want. So like if that's your only focus, then I think that's where Gold Digger comes. But if you are attracted to someone with money, because, and let me just be clear, money, it does provide a sense of security in a sense that, like you say, like women want to be with money, I mean men with money because it shows that they're automatically a provider. It gives the financial safety, but it doesn't necessarily mean, because we talked about this before, right? As a woman, I want to feel safe financially, emotionally, and physically. Just because you have money doesn't mean all those three things are satisfied.

This is where it comes to, it depends on, and Jade, you could jump in here. It depends on what you as a woman want from a man. Some women just want financial security, and they're fine with that, which is why they might be fine with their husbands not giving, providing to them emotionally, and their husbands might do other things or, you know, like it's a give and a take, right? for me maybe, I might prioritize feeling safe emotionally or physically. So then the financial side isn't as big of a deal for me, which is why, this is what I was going to say to the first part of what you were saying, why it's a problem that masculinity,

and Scott kind of talks about this, is defined in one way because you might be a house husband and you might take care of the kids and you might do all these things and it might give me the privilege to live the life that I want and you're providing me safety emotionally and physically for me, my children, the family. Does that make you less of a man? I'm arguing no. I think that's very mainly if you're secure in that and that's what you want to do. That's not less of a man, but the man's got to feel comfortable doing that too. It can't be like by default. If the man is happy doing that and that's what they want to do and they're providing safety to you and security to you in those ways, that is extremely manly to me as well.

And so, like, I don't want to say, when we always go back and forth in this at times, because I do agree with you, I hate to generalize because I think that it also depends where you are in your life. When I was in my 20s, this is not how I talked. As I got into my 30s and now 40,

I talk a completely different way. Because my situation is different. I'm different. Man, you know what I want? I wish everybody could just do it, make them happy, man. Yeah. I agree.

If y'all don't take one. I just wish that everybody could just do what makes them happy, man. I agree. If you are happy with a man that takes care of everything and you don't mind, you know, taking care of the domestic responsibilities and if a man is able to call you and be like, hey, you know, who's going to keep, and you like that cool. If you are happy being a house husband, you know, doing the laundry,

woman come home, tell you, nigga, get the fuck up off the couch and go do something and you okay with that. You know, woman come home and say, hey, nigger, like, come here and rub my family. See, see what I'm doing? And just, I just wish that everybody could be okay with that.

And that's Scott's point. It's like, because of the system that we live in, most people are not going to feel secure. People, men are not going to be secure like that. Or women aren't going to feel secure like that or look at a man as manly because of the system that we live in?

Well, I think Scott's greater, I think the way I read Scott's point was that you can't be attractive if you're broke. Not really. Now, I was... I didn't read it that way. Well, I mean, he what he said was that

men and women look for things differently. First of all, Scott kind of called Jay-Z chopped. Kind of called, say, hold was ugly a little bit, whatever. He kind of did, all right, because from women that I know that have known Jay-Z, they've said there are a lot of attractive things about Jay-Z that don't have anything to do with money. Jay-Z's funny. Jay-Z's charismatic.

Jay-Z's probably the guy that, like, always knows how to make a joke. I don't know it very well, but a lot of women that have been around is like just an attractive guy. Like, I mean, Scott boiled it down to money saying, and it's also incredibly talented, right, which also matters. Scott boils it down to money, which basically says. Well, he does. He boils it down to look, so he's basically saying, you know, you know, you know. Scott saying that about, oh,

come on, Scott. But, but, you know, I guess attractiveness and like what is attractive is both a personal thing,

but it's also a societal thing as well. Correct. I agree. So it's also like we set a beauty standard and then if you run a file of that beauty standard, then people go,

hey, you're not in line with the beauty standard. Get back into it. So all of these things are decisions. that we make for ourselves individually, but also we make them as a society. Do you think, though, when you say attractive

and it's a personal thing, what's attractive for a man is not necessarily what's attractive for a woman? Yeah. Okay. I mean, it's funny. Because women will say, like, maybe money, career, humor,

looks, all those things, intellect. I don't know if a man would say that all those things are attracted to a woman. I got to tell you. just because, you know, in the course of my friendships with women, I've been a part of a lot of conversations where we've been sitting around as guys talking to a girl being like, you really like that nigga.

As a men, we have never had that conversation. The conversation we've had is you really wiped her. We've never had a conversation about whether or not. not she is pretty or not. Yeah. Like we've never had that conversation because that, women are so beautifully complicated in what they find detractors.

They really open to more shit. Yeah, we are. They're really open to more shit. Yeah. They're open to more shit. But I will say, the higher you go up on the rare level of man, the more shit you can do.

The more mistakes you can make. Absolutely. The more shit you can say, If you pay for the boat, you can come out there and be like, hey, everybody getting in the water right now. You don't like getting in the water, get in the water. But you let you have not paid for the boat. You let yourself be a passenger in the boat. You let a nigger who's a passenger of the boat come into the room and go, everybody in the water right now.

You who don't like getting a tis, this nigger, this nigger think. It's a think of it. Yeah, anyway. So you have a problem with Scott. I thought I was going to get more out of you out of that. No. You're so, Rachel, you always zag. What do you mean?

You zags. You mean so I'm not predictable, is what you're saying. Rage is not predictable. Yeah, I wasn't triggered by this at all because I understand the system. I thought you would have had a problem with me saying I don't feel sorry for men because of this. I'm a man. I operate, it's funny because like the flip out that happened, the flip out that happened is me. The flip out that happened is me projecting myself onto the old me.

Like, that's what happened. The flip out that happened was me. about everything that had to happen. Like for me to come out here, I had to leave my entire family. You know, a nigga had to ride the bus. Nigger had to work at TMZ. It had to work, like gave away my whole 30s,

13 hours a day, dealing with all of that stuff. Like I had to go through a lot to play a lot of basketball, eat a lot of kale to lose weight. I had to go through a lot to be someone that people considered viable. it was difficult it was very hard so a lot of times I think about just the lives of

young men that I know that don't have the opportunity to do that they can't leave their home like they might not have it to be able to do it's like so what happens to them like I think about all the dudes that like got shot up and got fucked up

and all that stuff is there just like somebody to love them and somebody to care about them are there jobs for them is there a place for them or do they have to like chase Michael Jordan or Jay Z dreams and die trying do they have to like you know

go out there and take all of these chances like do we make like how do I as a man make a world for men that are interested in being human beings before they're interested in being men like how do you like how do I do that and the one way I do it

when I can in artfully and all fucked up sometimes is just sometimes and this is so and the lady's about to roll their eyes is sometimes to try to convince people that like men are also human beings, that they are also because you think you have to convince us of that.

No, because what I think though is that maybe what I think though is that like and you sound so white when you get into this bag which is the problem. What I think is that like when I think of some of the stuff that was given to me like

hey you need to get some pussy by at the time you're 16. Like, like, A, like when somebody looks at you, if they stare too long, ask them what the fuck is up?

Like, somebody look at you too long. They're looking at you too long. Don't look at me like you wanted, nigg, what's happening? Like, when I think about all the stuff that had to come between me

and just like being a person, I'm like, God damn, bro. It would be better off for everyone if we could take some of those things away. And those things aren't things that necessarily have to do with women. But I will say there are parts of them

that women respond to. Sure. I'll give you that. And so like when I'm trying to have a conversation, I just want these boys to be able to cry and be sad and not take it out on somebody and just like be people, but we just can't get there. Yeah, that's why I said at the beginning of this conversation when we were talking about it.

I said, I don't feel sorry that the way the system is set up that it's a consequence for men who aren't economically viable. but I understand why you may feel that way because of the system. And I feel like it is my responsibility to at least honor that, that you would feel like allow you to feel that way and not tell you, well, you just need to suck it up and fucking get a job. Like I wouldn't do that. That does not allow, that would be, to your point,

me not treating you like a human being. But I do treat men like human beings. Yeah, I think you do. He says come around. No, no, no, I think you, like, it's not up to me. First of all, the first thing we have to do is the same conversation that you have with white people, right? And this is why it makes you feel white when you're having a conversation. The first thing you have to do, and I write this in my fabulous substack from this week is, you know, on Eric Kilmonger, fabulous subset.

You guys watch it. The first thing you have to do is like, you can't moralize with white supremacy because white supremacy is immoral. So if you're asking white people or, excuse me, if you're asking, if you're asking, white supremacy to like not hurt you and you're moralizing then it's a fool's there and you can't do it right and a lot of times you're talking to men you think that you're talking to men you think that you're talking to people with all of these ideas but you're really talking to patriarchy and so the first thing you have to do is like educate an understanding of that system and then say hey we don't want to be this thing we want to be human.

the want is what I think sometimes I have a problem creating value for because I'll listen I talk to a lot of young men and they'll be like I'm a leader and I'm like you're not a leader okay like you're not a leader like you're you're not a leader like do you feel like you should be a leader switch a leader with protector if you protect people you are a leader by default if people think that being a leader we got to go people think that being a leader is like telling people what to do and people, if you protect them, they'll follow you no matter what. So just think about living in protection of people. If you think about yourself as a protector, then people will look to you, okay, it's safe

where he goes. Let's go where he goes. Let's go where she goes. Let's go where they go. Let's go with them go. They, them, everyone's included. All right, we got to go. We need another plan.

that we're not going to work I'm sorry it's going to be people the people going to listen we gave you our good two hours and ten minutes people are going to listen they're going to be mad at us Rachel

I said what I said oh shit I you know I'm open to hear I'm open to constructive criticism believe it or not I am but I'm just not going to listen to non-black people tell me how to feel

I'm just not about even about about about blackness about something that impacts black people i'm not going to list to i would never tell them how they should feel when they're offended i my mind doesn't even think that i could never imagine telling somebody a jewish person how they should feel about being offended when somebody calls them a derogatory name or a latino person like i just want to be like well You really should think about it in this way. Can we have, can we have, can we, can we, to the audience or to Rachel, can we have three more minutes of podcasts?

Yeah. We do that all time. All the time. We have to do it. We have to do it. We do it all the time. Okay, I'm being very specific. You're being more general.

So that's why I don't want to get into it. So you're saying, I said, I said calls them something. I'm not talking about it in a bigger sense. I'm not, I'm saying if somebody calls, calls me, because what I said earlier, I said, I do not believe this man is racist, but what he said was racism. That word is about racism.

That word is triggering. So I'm saying I would never, so I'm not accepting a non-black person telling me how I should feel in that regard. And that specific instance. With racism. With that type of slurs. I know where you're going with it,

which is why, and as soon as I said that, and maybe we should take that out, Like as soon as I said that, when I said, I wouldn't tell a Jewish person. I know where you're going with it. That's not, I'm not talking about it in that sense. I'm talking about it as like them being offended specifically as a Jewish person. Yeah, or as any person. Like an anti-Semitic thing.

Right. Like my, I want to be open to the fact that we negotiate words. Like we negotiate nigger. We negotiate bitch. We negotiate. I see niggas all the time. Niggers all the time. I see niggas all time having conversation with women

and going, man, you bitches do this and the women are like, ha ha ha ha ha. I'm like, God damn. Okay, well, if they're good with it, if it's fine for them, it's good for them, it's fine for me. If you like it, I love it. Like, you know, I never thought that that would be allowed,

but apparently it's allowed in the rap music, the rap songs, the rap ditties. But yeah, you know, we don't have to beat that into the ground. That's not going to work. What do y'all think about the new, the new, the new, new studio. How do you feel? How'd you feel about it? I love it. Smells new. I said it before I was like you weren't in here. I was like it's it looks sexy. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean there's no signage.

Is there a higher learning? So we're going to add on to it. We're brand new. This is the only studio that's really up and going right now in this new space. So they got us going first. So I feel special. Because this shit is great. This is very warm. It Chris lit it. Chris lit it. Chris is like one of the greatest DPs in the entire world. Chris lit it. It looks very warm. It does look like we're coming to you live from IKEA. No, they said we can add our stuff in. Like, where are we going to put? Higher learning.

We have our little knickknacks. They brought them. They brought who nanny. They brought who nanny. I asked. Who nanny's around? Who nannis is going to be here? We put them up here. Maybe we should also put like, you know what?

Everybody tells us what you guys want to put on the walls. We got to put some on the walls up here. Put some on the wall. We can talk about that later. Take the in caps off. Do not stop running on Danny TV. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye guys.

Hi, guys.