Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Questionable Pasts of the Joneses: Jerry and James Earl

Episode Date: November 29, 2022

Van and Rachel kick the show off by remembering the lives of friend and music executive Hovain Hylton, and actress and pop star Irene Cara (12:46), before digging into a photo of a teenage Jerry Jones at a desegregation protest in 1957 Arkansas (28:09). Plus, an analysis of a 1968 video of James Earl Jones discussing Black women being “uptight” (53:45). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up, man? Higher learning is on. It is I, Van Lankton, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Let me tell y'all what just happened. So we're debating guests. We're going over guests.

And apparently there's a guest that we are going to have on the show now. No, you can't say what I said. We're definitely going to have them on. We have to discuss this as a family. And we're talking about the guests. And Rachel's like, Donnie says, hey, this guest is a guy who is a plus-sized black male model. He's a heavyset model. And Donnie goes, you guys want them on?

And Rachel goes, Van, what do you think? Comes right to me. The question is, why would you come to me when it's talking on me? You guys, I simply was wondering your interest in wanting to have the guest on. That is all, you took it, you took it that way. That's a logical question, Van, what do you think? Donnie. Do I not do that with every guest?

Donnie. It was the timing and the tone. Not the tone, Donnie. Not the tone, Donnie. You have turned on me. Speaking of a heavyset, man, what does the fat nigger brigade have to say about it? That's not true. It's okay.

I worked out this morning. I saw Magic Johnson in the gym this morning. Wow. Yep. Magic. You say something? Of course. Magic's like.

You met him before? Yeah. Oh, okay. As I go up to him, say, hey, what's up, magic? Do you do that? When you see people you know, do you go up to them and speak? Like, I was getting my nails done and I saw Benny Medina. When?

Yesterday. Where was he at? Did I ask you what Jim you were at? I'm not going to put people's business out there. Damn. But I've never met him. And I thought, should I say something? And then I was like, no.

You didn't? No, because I was like, he's getting his nails done. He probably wants to handle his business, do his thing. And he doesn't want people to come up to him. It's not the time. If it was at a party, I definitely would have. I would have gone and said something. I'd have been like,

Benny! Benny! Baby, Bubby! You guys never heard my Hollywood voice. Smooth's voice. Benny! Baby, Bubby. It's me.

Remember me? We met that party in the hills, Benny. You're telling me you had that thing for Jennifer. Remember, Benny? Remember, Benny? You want me to do that thing with Jim? of a picture. We're going to do that picture.

Bimmy! And then he'd have, and then he would start. Y'all make sure you all watch the video. And then he would have started talking to you like that. Because that's the way, like, Hollywood power people talk in that way. You've heard this. Is that how magic talked to you?

No, that's not how magic talked to me. Magic talked to me because it's a, magic talked to me in a different way, because it's like, magic's from Lansing. East Lansing. I'm from Lansing. This is a nigger, right? So where we're in the presence of the other culture, it doesn't matter who you are, doesn't matter who I am.

You see the big man in there doing his squats. You show love. You show love in a way to let you me know, I'm safe, you're safe, I'm safe, you're safe. So when magic came up to me, magic was like, Oh, he came up to you. Whatever. He didn't come up to me. I said that wrong.

When I came up to magic, he was like, what's up? What's up? I got you, though. I got you. I'm proud of you. No, I think I'm proud of you. You're doing well.

Doing a lot. You're doing a lot. You look like you swollen up a little bit. Magic chill. So it's different. We have to connect on that level. Black women do that by like addressing what you guys are wearing. Like, hey, black hat.

Is that what we do? Yeah. We do. I would say something like, That's what I would have done the Biddy Bina. Oh, I see you. With the nails? No, with the nails.

Don't keep me in trouble. Biddy! Remember when we were talking about made in Manhattan? Love that movie. I love that movie. Billy, remember when you were trying to get that picture then? Remember when she was on tour for the World Cup? Billy, remember that weird night in New York that she had?

with puffy. Remember how skin we were a bibby. What'd you do this weekend? I don't ever want to hear the voice again. That's the hell people talk. Hey, you know, we know we kind of went TikTok viral. No, I happen. Justice League. Oh, yeah.

I put up the video. I knew it would have gotten. I'm not ashamed. And, you know, some people were saying I should have gotten some credit with Catwoman and Batman. Catwoman is not. They said that there are mold. multiple people in the Justice League.

First of all. Then there was this whole debate that does D.C. push Batman too much because I could name so many Batman people, but not the others. First of all, let's have a conversation about this. Let's talk about it real quick. Number one, I did give you Batman.

No, no, no, no. Catwoman and Robin. I told you that technically Robin is in the Justice League. I said that. Catwoman, I don't care what anyone says. is not a traditional or stalwart member of the Justice League. She doesn't count. Sexist. It's not sexist at all.

Wonder Woman we talked about. There are other people. Here's the thing. Catwoman is not a Star Wars member of the Justice League. She's a villain to Batman who sometimes turns hero whenever her and Batman get horny for one another. As soon as the horniness is over, she goes to another town and she starts robbing them blind. But when she's in Gotham, her and Batman are horny, he becomes a little bit of a criminal. She becomes a little bit of a hero because they're horny for each other.

She leaves another city, robin blind. Robbing everyone. That's Catwoman's story. Okay? Not really member to Justice League. But look. She's telling you with the people saying. Robin?

And the people were, like, give her some credit. She named a lot of Batman characters. You like Batman. I really do. Yeah. The Christopher Nolan Batman. I'm not hating. I'm just saying, and for all of those people that are out there,

he didn't name Superman towards it. That's the only thing, man. Superman. And I googled it. If you watched the video, you see there was a slag. We're Googling. It's crazy. I only got Superman and Wonder Woman because I googled it.

I'll tell all myself. All right, what did I do this weekend? I was in Houston. Right. I went home, saw my grandmother as everything. Kicked it with my aunts, uncles, and cousins. Brian was there too. Had a good town in age town.

It was just there for my grandmother. I didn't see anybody, but grandmother and whoever came by the house. house. Yeah. What did you do? You cooked. A little bit. I saw.

A little bit I cooked. A little bit I cooked. I listened to music being funny in a foreign language. You listen to Sweetie's new album? The 1975. No. Oh, okay. Because it dropped.

I mean, that's a diss from you. No, it's not. I'm asking a genuine question. You said you listen to music. It is not a dis. No, it's not. Don't try to flip it. You're piling on her.

I'm not, oh, okay. You're piling? Donnie? I'm asking you. It was trending. Nope. It dropped and it was trending. And that's a legitimate question.

It's a legitimate question. It's shady because you know the answer is no and you don't want to say it so you want to flip it on me. I don't listen to her like that. But she got mad fans. You're a music fan. You listen to music for music when it drops. No, I'm not. Yes, you are.

Did you listen to her album? I didn't listen to new music this week. What's your favorite sweetie song? I was solely, I don't have one. I was solely centered on my grandmother. I like that song. I'm coming in fast. First place you coming in last.

I'm coming in fast. I'm trying to make up for it now. I'm not trying to make up for shit. I didn't listen to the album. And she's, I guarantee you, sweetie is not making music for the 290-pound men like myself. She says she makes a big. for pretty girls.

For the pretty girls. She makes it for the pretty girls. You're dissing. You're dissing Suidi. Donnie, was that shade to Suiti? Did I say I love that? No, I don't think so. She was asking a legit question.

Thank you. A relevant question, Donnie. I could see if I came out of the blue with it. But you said you listened to new music. What did you listen to then? In 1975. What's that? It's a.

pop rock band from overseas. You don't like them? I haven't heard of them. For real. I mean, I got into them when we were talking about this with my ringer cohorts. I hadn't had time to listen to the album, but I... Oh, they suggested it for you? Well, I hadn't heard the new album.

Okay. I've been a 1975 fan for a little while. Not a diehard, but I like the way they sing. Rock. It's rock? Yeah, but it's like pop rock. Like, what's pop rock? I think my head is too big.

My hat's popping off. Do you notice? You think your head is too big? Well, I know my head's big. Yeah, I was about to say. What you think? That's also something that's been talked about on TikTok. Look, if you can tell me about, I can give it right back.

Who talks about my big head on TikTok? I know you've seen that TikTok. Which one? You've seen the TikTok with you and Snoop Dog. Oh, that. Yeah. I didn't know that was on TikTok. Yeah, you've seen a TikTok with you and Snoop.

Yeah, but a big head joke. How clever. So you're mad. I'm making my head. I'm making my hat. You just so you're mad about that. No, I'm not mad about that. Yes, you are.

You're a big head joke. Are we going to project this whole podcast? Is that what this podcast is going to be? Donnie, have you ever heard of the 1975? I haven't. Not before today. I thought it was a drink. Damn.

The 1942, 1975. I like them. Let's listen to, let's listen. Hey, let's listen to a track. of their new album being funny and foreign language, wintering, Van's favorite song. This is considered rock? Okay.

Soft rock. Pop rock. Pop rock. Like the Haim sisters? Like, oh. Another group that I love. Aren't they great? They are so dumb.

We should have them. Have you ever heard Hame and... So you say Hame and I say Hym. I'm not sure which one it is, but... I'm not sure. Have you ever heard Hame and... And Kid Cuddy, Red Eye? Yes, I have.

Yay! I think I'm losing my mind. All I've wanted to do. Cause insane. And I think I don't know why. I don't want anything to do. I'm going to the night on the red eye, red eye. We'll have them on.

Oh, the night on the red eye, red eye. So, like, it's really the whole song is just them. But then Kid Cuddy comes at the end. Uh-huh. If you don't listen to them, you should check it out. I love that song. Yeah, you know who was with them when I saw them last? Who?

Tommy. Tommy. Tommy was with everybody. Tommy. I remember they were on Rock Nation back in the day. I was like, why did they sound? Yeah, I did know that. When they were on Rock Nation, I was like, I got to listen to them.

See how Brandon gets to me? So I listened to music. I think I was also very sad this weekend. Why? So there's something in the rundown that is very near to me and a lot of people in my friend group. I think it was on Saturday morning that I woke up. And after going outside and getting the sun in my eyes, I saw on Twitter that Jonathan Hovane Hilton, a man that I know was Hovane.

I have known for years now, passed away. So I'll tell you where the loss for words comes in. Because in trying to describe who Hovane was, I wish that there were different words. I wish that there were more important words. I wish there were words that hadn't been used yet. Because saying, hey, he was a good guy. saying hey he was a thoughtful guy

saying hey that he was an engaged concerned guy they don't really do my brother justice because in adulthood in life in a business

in an industry if you will where it's difficult if not impossible to find people who genuinely and sincerely want the best for you, who energetically and spiritually seem like they are invested into you, into their own families, this man was a husband and a father. It's insanely rare.

last Saturday I went to the boxing gym and when I left my car wouldn't start I don't know people saw hey out like I was asking people if you know anyone to come jump a car off in the valley

and let me know I ended up calling somebody but like while I'm sitting there like super annoyed it's just one of those things where you thought you were going to be back at your house at a certain time now you got a ways it's just one of those things It's just like, you know, I get a call.

And the call from Hovane. Me and him are talking. And he goes, yo man, hip-hop homicides is amazing. And he's like, bro, how did you do this? Like, how, what are things like for you? What's going on with you from having to tell all of these stories? Like, are you okay? You know, after he watched a show, like, is,

is did it change you being that close to it? Because Hovane was a music manager and somebody who had been instrumental in the careers or so many artists. And in doing that, he understood intimately how some of the dysfunction or some of the trials and tribulations of what these men and women go through can rub off on the people that are around them. Sometimes not even the people that are around them, but the people that are covering. them or digging into it.

And he wanted to know just how I was doing with everything. And we talked and we talked and we talked the entire time that I was waiting for the guy to come jump the car off. And at the end of the conversation after I've talked about me for so long, after I had explained to him what it was like and gone through and he's just listening and asking questions, like anyone who you want to be in your corner was, I asked him, you know, what was going on with him? Because he had a lot of people that he was in business with.

And he goes, well, something kind of cool happened. He goes, I was listed as one of billboards, power players, and music. And I'm like, fuck. Huge. I'm like, man, congratulations. I'm like, dog. Like, I'm going to post that on my gram and all that. I'm like, man.

Congratulations. So I put it up in my stories and stuff. I'm like, dog, congratulations, man. Like, whatever. And I'm thinking to myself, I say, I say, oh, man. Like, the entire time we've been talking about, like, what's going on with me, you have this tremendous accolade that is, is, well, for a lot of people would actually be kind of career defining.

Absolutely. And you were just like pouring in listening to and investing into like a show that I had shot like months ago. And you just like for the, I think obviously I lost my father last year. But I just started to ask this question. I'm like, yo man, why Hovane? I'm like why, like why there's just like,

like why Hovane? Why why does there's so much there's so many people and this sounds so crass to say there's so many people causing so much

confusion there's so many people I don't want to see anything happen to anyone but I'm trying to communicate with people as best I can I'm just thinking like why am I my nigger like why like why

like what the I can't even begin to tell you guys what a good duty was and even to say that it is cliche I wish I had a better command of the language I wish I had

like I wish I could write a song or paint a picture or like, um, or, or create something that just would let you know, like, how calming a presence he was. And how fantastic, concerned. I was walking in New York one time, walking around Lower East Side in New York. And all of a sudden I hear somebody go, hey! And I look and there's a door open in a car. Like, yo, come on.

I'm like, who is that? It was Ovan. He's like, get in, where are you going? I'm like, bro, kind of lost. I'm like, yo, man, how did I just randomly run into you? In New York. In like, in that head, I'm like, how did I just randomly run into you? She said, no, now, let's drive around and talk a little bit, man, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Run in, he catch me, you know, we have dinner after that. And just everything was a little muted. After that, it still is. And, you know, he passed away at home on November 25th. I'm running down to wife in Lucci, Flip De Niro, T. Payne. Cameron, Jim Jones, style P, he's worked with all of these guys. And he was more than a manager and he was more than a friend. He was a battery.

like an energy battery like a good clean energy battery and my heart goes out to his family shout out to everybody I connected with this week shout out to BDai

shout out to Rob Markman Charlemagne you know everybody that was around that talked to Hovane a lot it CASS my man Cass

everybody had the same reaction. It's just not fair. Yeah. So for me, that was tough. And everybody's processing, but its family is just kind of beginning to deal with it now. So I don't know what you're supposed to say. Well, I'm sorry for your loss.

I'm sorry for his family and his friends and everybody who's impacted by him. And I know you were struggling to say, to find. the words to define, but your stories and what you shared gives someone who only was aware of him, you know, by name and some of his influence in the industry, just gives us a little peek into how much influence he had and what a great person he was. He was. We also lost Irene Kira, 63 years old. Hove was still in his 30s, just really young. Obviously, if you guys don't know, Irene Kara, Sparkle, I know her from fame when I was a kid, fame. Not Sparkle?

I never, I wasn't on Sparkle as much. Sparkle was so influential to me. That's how I know, only 17 years old, such a powerhouse. You know, I come from a family of three sisters, three girls, and their three sisters. that were growing up in like a time when there was a certain civil social unrest. And they had, there was just their mother raising them. And she was fighting to, you know, keep them on the straight and narrow. And, you know, their ups and downs in the movies.

If you haven't seen it, you should definitely go see it. But yeah, my mom used to, you know, I don't see many movies. But that was a movie that my mom wanted us to see. I understood why she wanted us to. But it just, I don't know. I don't know. It's like one of those childhood defining moments. So she meant a lot to me and her influence and what she did. And yeah, it's really sad. I was shocked by that one. Yeah. For what a feeling. What a feeling from Flash dance. Yeah. Never seen it. Never saw Flash dance. Never seen Flash dance. No support Jessica Bill. That's not true. And so, but like, you know what I knew Sparkle from? My first.

The first experience with Sparkle was when InVogue did, giving him something he could feel. Giving him something he can feel. Well, you mean to tell you a video that used to get my dad in trouble? They came out with the giving him something he could feel. See, y'all don't respect InVogue. Who doesn't respect it? Please. I'm sick of y'all.

Y'all don't respect, involved. Y'all only remember. Please. You don't respect in Vogue. Y'all don't respect SWV. Who are you talking to? Who is he talking to? Brownstone.

Y. Y.N.V. Y'all don't respect Y and V. Y. Y'all don't respect Adina Howard. Y'all don't respect. In Vogue is obviously different from them because EnVogue was huge. And as a view, like, I don't hear enough in Vogue talk. I don't. I'm sick of it. I don't hear enough in Vogue talk. What's your favorite in Vogue song? Tell me right now.

Giving him something he can feel is a good one. I love the collaboration when they're with salt and pepper and they do. No, that's not a good answer. What a man, but, oh, favorite in vogue song. Except that. It's not great. I'm still going to go with giving him something he can feel. It's a good one.

Free of mind, though, it's the song. Free your mind for you? Yeah. Oh, gosh. I just just wasted a car. When you used to be. That doesn't mean I don't like my stroke. When we used to make videos.

That speaks to you. We used to, when we used to. to make videos. That's what you would sing. I might date another race or color that doesn't mean I don't like. My strong black brother. I must not be this way?

Before you can read me, you got to learn how to see me. Oh my gosh. We used to make videos as kids with the camcorder. That was a song we always did. Would you sing Lee? Who would sing Lee? Me.

Crazy. I was doing it with my little white friends from First Baptist. Wait a minute. Oh, if Aaron could find those videos somewhere, I would be so embarrassed. You were in a white in vogue group? Okay, it was just me and her. What mean it was just you and her? Was you and another white girl?

That was my best friend growing up. First Baptist a cat, a white. A white? You guys would sing InVogue songs together? No, we did that song together. So you let her, so would you let her say in the strong black brother type? No, I don't remember. Probably not.

Listen, I want to be clear for people who haven't seen Sparkle, please make sure you see the 1976 version. 2012 is fine, but we're talking about the original and that's the one you need to make sure you sing. Right. Some other, uh, remember my loving, you're never going to get, not this time. This starts off with the Michael Jackson. That's that one, right?

Yeah. You like, funky divas? No, that's hold on. Oh, that's hold on. Thank you, Daddy. Oh, oh. Donnie came to your love. You got to hold on.

And they all four can say, that's the beauty of it. Everybody could take leave. And then Don left, and she joined the group with Lucy Pearl. Mm-hmm. Gotta dance tonight. Got to dance tonight. Yeah. Yeah.

Man, my guy, man, my man, my brother. I'm delirious today. Let's get into the big deal of the day. I don't know if I just break. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul PREDICs. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus.

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Yeah, so, Rachie, Rayche, Raichie, Cowboys fan. I want to play Big Deal or No Deal. The Washington Post has unearthed a 1957 picture of Jerry Jones and a crowd blocking. some Negro students. Mob. Excuse me. A mob. So you want to say

he's in a mob now. Blocking some Negro students from entering the school. Okay. Photo of Jones says that he was 15 years old, although I heard he was 18. I heard he was one month

before he turned to 15. So we don't know. It's like so many, whatever, he's a teenager. He's a teenager standing amongst the protesters at North Little Rock High School

blocking the people. blocking the path of six black students. Jones says he was curious. Donnie, give me the audio. Yeah, that was, gosh, 65 years ago. And a curious kid, I didn't know at the time, the monumental event, really. That was going on.

And I'm sure glad that we're a long way from that. I am. And we just, that would remind me just continue to do everything we can to not have those kinds of things happen. Rachel, that's your guy. So give me the, when I saw the picture and I tagged you in it. Yeah, you did. Yeah. I was trying to enjoy.

Was that Thanksgiving Day? Might have been. I'm like, what is this? Yeah. You had no business doing that. Wow. But I think a lot of people might be shocked by my response. You know, very similar to what Stephen A. Smith had to say.

I'm sorry, I can't even keep going on that. I can't even keep on that. I'm not tripping. Play the Stephen A. Smith. Play the Stephen A. Smith. Play the Stephen A. Smith. Dallas Cowboys Dallas Cowboys

He's a friend of Jerry Jones The owner of Dallas Cowboys A noted fighter for black rights Stephen A. Smith had this to say on first take. I'm pretty pissed off And let me say this I'm pissed off but not for reasons

that people would think I'm very, very fond of Jerry Jones and I'm not hiding that from anybody. Is his record perfect? No. but I'm pissed off because he doesn't deserve what just happened. He doesn't deserve it. One report, our report, said he was 14 years old. Another report said he was 15 years old.

At minimum, that's 65 years ago. You're going to bring up a picture of Jerry Jones standing at this protest. no question what was happening is not something that anybody as a black person should be appreciative about we had six students at that particular North Little Rock High School

that was trying to desegregate the school no one should be okay with it nobody should be okay with that regardless of race we understand that we get all of that we also understand what we as black people and as black folks black men have to deal with and by the way to some

degree we still deal with a lot of things and we all know it. Racism is alive and well. Bigotry and prejudice is alive and well. We get all of that. But you're going to bring up a photo of him when he was 14, 15 years old. Now I know on this podcast,

a number of times I have supported Stephen A. Smith. But Stephen A. Smith ought to be ashamed of himself. As should, Bart Scott sitting at that table and Sam Macho. Go ahead and throw in Molly Kerman. as well. Yes, I said it. A. Cho brother. Yeah. I did. Either Stephen A. Smith did not read that article or didn't understand it.

Because the basis of that article was not to shame Jerry Jones for being for that in that photo. The basis of that article was not to cancel Jerry Jones. The basis of that article was to show that certain decisions that have been made, by Jerry Jones are rooted in a history that has been impressed upon him, which include him being in that photo, and they contribute to a racial bias and or a racial ignorance. That's the purpose of that photo. The purpose of the article was to discuss inequality in the NFL in regards to the hiring or the lack thereof of black coaches. And it's a... It's to show that arguably the most influential individual in the NFL has not used his power to make a difference in regards to that. And perhaps that is because of his past.

I think that you can say, most people would say, that things that have happened in them in the past influence certain decisions that they make in the future or that they have made. the fact that Stephen A. Smith could not get that or understand that was the purpose of the article. It is, and it is a, I wish I would have pulled up who wrote the article. Donne, if you can for me. It is a very well-written article and you should take the time to read it because they even break down, one, Jerry's influence certain things that Jerry has said over time. His acknowledgement of his power within the NFL and if he did step up to do certain things that other NFL, owners would probably follow. And he kind of says as well that he hasn't done enough to make a difference. This isn't to say that Jerry Jones has done nothing, but Jerry Jones has not made an influence or certain progression in regards to advancing black people when it comes to

the NFL like he could. And then within the article, they talk about the fact that he's never had a black head coach and has had two coordinators that have been black. over the 30 plus years that he has been in ownership of the Dallas Cowboys. I can't believe Stephen A. Smith took this stance. I think it's embarrassing for him. I don't even think that he can backtrack after all the backlash that he's seen. And I further was bothered by Molly saying that people shouldn't be judged by their worst mistake. I hate when people say that.

I think that's a lazy thing to say because your worst thing. that varies, right? So people shouldn't be judged by the worst thing that they do. Well, what's the worst thing? Are we talking to Sean Watson worst thing? Are you talking about like singing the inward in a song? Like, I think that that varies. And I don't think that the purpose of this article was to judge him by this photo. It was to use that as a backdrop to show other things that he's done or the lack thereof. I also think that Stephen A. Smith missed the point in regards to Jerry's response. Jerry is a master, I think, of deflecting. When he's asked a direct question, instead of there being some type of accountability, he disregards the issue within the question.

And in him saying, I was just curious or, ooh, that was 65 years ago. I was just curious. No, you're ignoring how that makes your black fans, your black players, your black players, black staff or just black people feel about your very presence in that mob, because let's call it what it is. And you could have just said, you know what, I was there. I didn't do anything, but I understand how that looks, and I understand the optics of it all. And I apologize for this. But you couldn't even do that. You just wrote it off as to curiosity. And we're supposed to all accept that. And then also believe that you stand with us and not judge you by certain things that you've done. or like I said, the lack thereof, based on that photo.

So, that's what I like. Legal Eagle putting the Smackdown. Let's go over a couple of things here. Still a Cowboys fan. It's fine. It's fine. Let's go over a couple of things here. Do you think Jerry Jones's presence in that photograph is evidence of a deep-seated racial animus that he has?

Do you think so? Because there's two ways to look at this. One way is he was at a flashpoint moment in American history. Right. And he was there for whatever reason. He was, and he was photographed there. Another way to look at it is that Jerry Jones went there to impede black students from integrating the school. And that he was doing that because he was raised. on segregation, racism, and white supremacy. And those practices have persevered throughout his tenure as the owner of the Cowboys,

which is why he's never had a black coach, which is why he hasn't had black coordinators, which is why he hasn't been as progressive on some of these issues as people think that he should be. Those two things, those two ways of looking at that are diametrically opposed. Are you saying that we're missing the point that Jerry Jones' racism is present and real and that that picture proves that it's deep root? I think that his racial bias is real. Interesting. And I think the picture shows that he grew up in a certain time. Because here's the thing with this picture.

It's a picture, not a video. So we can only take Jerry's word for it. For all we know, there's a video that shows him shouting. We don't know. We just have a still shot video of his very presence there. That would be a hell of an assumption to make. And I'm not taking it up for Jerry Jones. But my point is we don't know.

It's a still shot. We don't see the act. We don't see if he's just looking. We don't see if he's yelling or shouting. We have no idea. We just have a picture. So take his word from it. Fine. It's enough that you were there. But it shows the time that Jerry Jones grew up in. And it shows what he saw witnessed and maybe even his very friends. At the very least, his classmates felt that way. The people that he surrounded himself with. He grew up in segregation in small town, Arkansas. So I would have to say that I think there's a difference between being racist and having racial bias. I absolutely believe he is racial bias. Because Jerry Jones will say things.

like I'm not going to hire, and I'm totally paraphrasing here, but he often talks about the way that he grew up with parents that were sharecroppers and how he grew up from that, but made something out of himself and has worked hard to have the things that he's had. Alluding to and makes that comparison in regards to, I'm not just going to have a coach to have a coach. He's referring to hiring a black coach. But that article talks about that they found that black men who became NFL head coaches in the past decade, on average, spent more than nine years longer than their white counterparts in mid-level assistant jobs. So that shows that black coaches do put in the work. And they do work hard. In fact, they work harder than their white counterparts who get the job. Take Jeff Saturday for an example. That's not Jerry's team.

I'm just giving an example. So for you in all your years To have eight different coaches And not one of them is black And I don't even know how many coordinators And there's two There's some Are you talking about Jim Ursae or you're talking about Jerry Jones?

Jerry Jones Sorry, sorry, let me be clear I'm going back to Jerry Jones Colts had Tony Dungee as that coach Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Who won a Super Bowl? I'm going back to Jerry Jones In the 30-something years

that you've owned the Cowboys and you've had no black head coaches when you know that there have been qualified head coaches, I mean, coordinators, assistant coaches within the NFL. You've only had two black coordinators. And you're saying that, oh, I'm not going to pick anybody. They have to work hard. I think it's clear that there have been black coaches that have worked hard

that could have had that position. And I do really believe that there is something in you believes that they aren't qualified or couldn't do the job. And you can't say that the coaches that you have had because, I mean, what have the Cowboys done in 27 years? Yeah. And I'm saying this as a fan. Maybe you should try something new. Mm-hmm.

Like Trump said, right? What could go wrong? It can't get me worse. Can't get me worse. Like Trump said. Do you think that Jerry has a racial bias? Yeah. I think that, yeah.

But look, to me, I think if you were, if you're a shark and I know that you, by your nature, are a hunter, I know by your nature that you are an apex predator. If you are a shark, you have to prove to me that you won't kill me. Not that you will. So if I see a shark, right? ripping up an otter, tearing apart a surfer. I'm like, that's what sharks do. But if a shark wants me to swim with them, be pals with them, they have to prove that they're not going to rip me up.

So if you were born into segregationist Arkansas, if you were born and you are a white man that is born into that, to me, white person that is born into that, to me, there's a part of your upbringing that signals a certain relationship with progress, with Americans, and with black people specifically. To me, I think it's up to guys like that to demonstrate, to prove, if you will, if they care, if you don't care, that's fine, to demonstrate or prove that that's not what they're about. And this picture, in my opinion, is a reminder that that's a reminder that's,

where he comes from. And a lot of people come from that. And a lot of people that came from that, not a lot of people, but there were people that came from that that weren't with that. There are people that were born around that same time. That's not what they're about, right? And so for me, if people look at that picture and say, hey, there's Jerry Jones right there, then look at his record and go, Jay Jones has done nothing to make, not to make us believe that he wasn't part, he wasn't on the wrong side of history there. I think that's fair criticism. And I think that that's something that Jerry Jones has to reconcile. I'll tell you one thing,

Jerry Jones don't need no niggas to come to his defense. We talk about that. It's always one. Jerry Jones don't need, like, what he doesn't need. And look, they're friends with the guy. They're friends with the guy. I get it. Call your friends out.

Yeah. I mean, if he doesn't want to call him out, maybe he doesn't think there's anything to call him out about. That's your friend, not mine. So I'm not defending Stephen A. Smith. These are your people. This is Jerry Jones. No, no.

Stephen A. Smith. I can be a cowboy fan does not make me, does not make him my people. Jerry Jones is not my people. Hey, always talk about Vans, friends. All right. But seriously, all jokes aside. But what I'm saying is, yeah, look, I get everything that you said is spot on. Do I think that him being in that picture right now means that he couldn't have grown or changed or evolved in 60 years?

Obviously, that's bullshit. Of course you can grow and change and evolve in six years. Sure. You can grow and change involving five years. Grow it involved in six months. You know what I mean? Like if you're committed to doing better than you were doing before. The question is, has he?

That's the question. Yeah. And so that's what people, and I think that's a fair question to ask. And the record reflects that it doesn't look to be that way. And even outside of the coaching, talked about how he handled the capernet, how the situation, how he talked about what his players better. do and what they better not do in regards to the flag. So, you know, there's, I'm not saying that he hasn't done anything, but, you know, it's not,

it's not, it's not, the bigger issue to me is, you know, it's Jerry, all that's to be expected. Wasn't shocked to see the photo. Stephen A. Smith thing. Just. Hurt you. No, it's just gross. Yeah. hurt you, hurt you. It's very upsetting.

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summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways. Catchup goes rogue ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Yeah. I don't own any. You? No, I don't own any. I'm surprised you don't own any Belenziaga. Very fancy, fashionable lady. What? It's not in a bad way? No, you're right. It's not, and I don't.

So they're under fire right now. I don't know if you saw the pictures. Donnie will put them up. Let's be honest with you. Belenziaga had some pictures and it looked like the kids were holding BDSM. Bears. Bears. Yeah. Like sex bears. Yeah. Sex bears thing.

And they look like they had sex bears. Look, I'm going to be real with you. I have no proof to say this. What I'm about to say. Okay. I think Balenciaga did this on purpose. Because? There's no way.

Guys, every fucking couple of years, like one of these fashion houses. This is true. Puts their foot in hot water by putting a, hanging nigger on a t-shirt and they're going, oh, we didn't think that that was bad. Like he's, you know what I mean? Like, or big black lips or something that is so elementary that people, that they know that people aren't going to go for it. That I have trouble believing that this is not done intentionally.

So what's the, what's the purpose of that then? To me, personally, personally, to do exactly what's happening right now. To look, because here's the thing. I don't think that this means that people aren't going to wear Balenciaga. I think people are definitely going to wear Balenciaga. Sure. I don't know that there's anything. Balenciaga could come out with a shirt that says,

fuck you niggas. And it would be people that would excuse that. I don't think that this is going to stop people from wearing Balenciaga. But I find it hard to believe that they looked at those pictures and saw kids like holding dolls with bonded shit on them. and thought that like people weren't going to raise an eyebrow at that. I guess I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that their ambassador is Kim Kardashian, which pretty much anything she does, everybody, there's a whole, not everybody, but a lot of young people, particularly women, want to do.

She's the face of their brand. They didn't, they don't need this publicity. I mean, even with their affiliation with Kanye West, they've cut ties. They don't need this. So to me, I don't understand the purpose of doing it. I don't know how this left, like, I don't know how this left the room when somebody pitched this as an idea. But they don't need, they were fine. Donnie, have you seen these pictures?

Yeah, it's really weird. It's just weird. Like, the fact that they included, aside from the creepiness of the children with the dolls, there's like a not well-hidden photo of like a, legal document that somebody on Twitter zoomed into and it has to do with child pornography, that legal document. Wait, what do you mean? I think there's a, there's an image where like there's a table with a bunch of like random paper scraps and somebody zoomed into one of the papers.

And the paper is like the law of a certain state's child pornography laws. In the campaign? Yes, in one of the official images. Okay. Hold on, Donnie. Let me make sure that this sounds like some $10 too bullshit. Let me make sure. But it is disturbing because one of the pictures, she's in a bed, you know, holding the sex bear.

Okay, so I'm looking at this now. It was intentional then. They did it on purpose. I'm telling you, they did it on purpose. Has Balenciaga come out and said anything? They have. They said that they're sorry, that they realized that it was. fucked up and that people and that they made a mistake and that they should have never done it.

So if the legal document that we're looking at contains an excerpt from a Supreme Court opinion, United States versus Williams, which upheld part of a federal child pornography law, are they trying to make a statement? Were they trying to make some type of statement against child pornography. By having a kid hold... Well, I don't know. I'm confused by this. And I guess they don't want to defend

what they did now. They're this artistic display. And I'm using air quotes for everybody listening. So look. It's gross. There's a fine line here between getting up in arms about something. Is the bear for sale? Do you want the bear?

No, I'm just wondering. what they're advertising here. I'm wondering what they're advertising. What are they selling? Rachel, you want the Balenciaga bear? No, I don't own anything Balenciaga. You think I want to start with this bear? Let's say Belenziaga calls you.

Give it to copper as a chew toy. Let's say Belenziaga calls you right now and says that they want to work with you. I think it'd be a no. I know it'd be a no. Kim Kardashian says her relationship with Belenziaga is under review. She's re-advalued. We'll wait. She said, I appreciate Balenciaga.

removal of the campaigns and apology and speaking with them, I believe they understand the seriousness of the issue and will take the necessary measures for this to never happen again. Something else is going to happen. Stuff like this happens all the time, something else is going to happen. The question is, are all of you guys who are talking about how mad you are going to stop wearing the Balenciaga stuff? I feel like most people who are mad don't wear it So they would like to wear it

I don't Kanye West was talking so much shit about Balenciaga when he did his whole Like little yay for whatever He had Balenciaga boots on He had the boots on He had the boots on, had Balenciago on the side of him He was talking about going to

Going to the Maralago when he brought Adolf Hitler and Joseph Gerbils with him That he was talking about he had he had Valenciago on the side of his situation right there. It's very disgusting. So look, we'll see what happens with Balenciag. I don't wear a ton of Balenciaga.

I'm not about to get anybody's face that wears it. But I will say this. There are all of these talks, rumors, conspiracies about what goes on in different industries and what goes on in different places in terms of victimizing children. But, and, you know, some of that stuff is obvious facts. It's just true. And some of it is, you know, conspiracy for the sake of conspiracy.

This is clearly, in my opinion, a luxury brand endangering children. It is. Yeah, with this image. Absolutely. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. I hope to see none of you guys

make excuses for this. You like Jones-at-Timesau Jones? At times. There was a discovery that I made, that we made, on Thanksgiving. watching a completely unrelated James Earl Jones video

completely unrelated to people us I don't know how to introduce this video because this is not fair so I just want to... Why is it not fair? It's kind of not... All right.

James Earl Jones explains his preference for white women. Okay, so look. That's the name of the video. So we should have this... Go from there. So this is a good conversation that we should have.

And I'm stammering and stuttering introducing this because this was a long time ago. It was like 50 years ago. Jamesville Jones is like 91 years old now. But we happened upon this video. And in this video, James Earl Jones is describing why he likes white women.

And more so to the point he's describing why black women are, uptight. Yeah. Run the audio, Donnie. Jim, do black men marry white women because of the nature of black women? You've said in some of our earlier conversations that black women seem to be uptight. Uptite about what?

Uptite about their position in society. There are many, because I'm generalizing now, many. are overreacting against Aunt Jemima, the Ant Jemima image, the submissive Mother Earth type, unselfish, all giving, especially all giving to the white man, sexually and in the kitchen every other way. And she's also overreacting against the problem of having to be the breadwinner, the matriarch of the house. The myth of the black matriarch is really a myth, because she is not, it wasn't her choice. Many, many black women, I'm sure, once they found this job had a certain social and political dignity to it, relished it, and wheel of the rolling pen,

you know, like any minority group, mom or something. would do. But no matter how much she might relish it, it wasn't her choice to begin with. She would always have preferred the black male to have rung the house, to have saved her from white rapists, white slave owners. Is the black woman popular? But I recognize that this reaction can exist, you see. What was the last question part he asked? Donnie, you cut it off too soon.

We have to get his wife's opinion. Who's white? Ask me another question. Why did you marry Julian? I married Julianne because she's Julianne. Nothing to do with race and all, really. No, no. If I looked at it from a social standpoint,

I can say that she outshed. shown as a person, most women I met of any race. Thank you. All right, June, why did you marry Jim? But first, do you know what Jim means by the uptightness of black women? Oh, yes. You've been in the theater.

Well, I've sensed it with almost every black woman that we know whether they accept me or not. You know, whether it's always a tolerance, There's always hostility of behind. Your thoughts? You know he criticizes black men in what he's also saying. He does. In this as well.

He does. Just the whole black race in all of this. Van sent this. Van tried to just mess up between the Jerry Jones and this. Van sent this. I said, I don't want to look at this right now. I'm in a place where I just don't want to mess up. the holiday today.

James Earl Jones. Honestly, a lot of what he was saying was hard to follow. He was like talking and just talking to talk. I think I'm going to want James to just stick to reading the scripts. I don't really want to hear his opinion. But I will say this. I hate clips like this. I hate when we have to have these discussions on the podcast.

Because I feel like I'm always having to be defensive or on the defense when it comes to speaking about people being in interracial relationships or marriages. Because this right here is what people think we all think. Like they think that we all have this James Earl Jones mindset when it comes to the reason we're women. we date outside of our race is because of issues we have within our race, which couldn't be farther from the truth for me, right? But I feel like I always have to defend when it comes to this because you have people who start talking out the side of their neck putting down their own race to uplift another one. And this was obviously disappointing to hear James Earl Jones talking this way of the black women. And yes, of black women. And he says,

I'm generalizing. And yes, you were. And you couldn't have been more incorrect. And just for someone who we've seen in movies like Claudine, in movies like Coming to America, Mufasa in the Lion King, it's disappointing. And I was not aware that James Earl Jones had these type of belief, nor was I aware of how he's dated.

I mean, he married another white woman after this. I just, you think it's funny. You think it's funny So it's not that I think it's funny Black women stay taking a lick It's not that thing is funny It's not funny at all It's incredibly sad

And I got my ass chewed out For laughing at it So it's not that thing It's funny It's very sad But I think You know certain things Like when he said

Ain't Jamima Ain't Jamima Ain't Jamima What the fuck Is James Earl Jones talking about. Like I just

I'm not trying to I'm not trying to I'm at least expected to hear like a coherent thought or or or something it was it was awful so I'm not trying to

in any way but it's like to see what I mean he thinks it's funny it's not funny it's just like it's like

Johnny cut his mic It's not funny. It's really not funny though. When I say it's really not funny, it's not. But the thing, when he said that. So this is what I'll say about that is like there is something there to deconstruct. I'll tell you what it is. Black people, particularly black men sometimes.

As they move up to social ladder. It's easy to shed what they believe their blackness to be. This is why it's very important to separate blackness and the black experience from struggle, strife. That's why it's very important to correctly examine the strong black woman sort of trope. Not that our sisters aren't strong, they're incredibly strong, but once when something is defined as strong, the strength is expected. Absolutely. And whenever any time, whatever, you know, human beings are described as strong if we're not in the gym, that definition comes from what they're able to take. This is a strong person.

She can take a lot, get through a lot. If you're weak, if you can't take things. Right. So what happens sometimes, I've seen this happen before, is you might talent your way out of what you consider to be the black experience, which is a lack of action. which is a lack of access, which is a lack of options, which is a very sort of oppressed existence to where you can't do the things that you want, you can't go the places you want to go, can't see the people you want to see. And you might run your way out of that, you might act your way out of that,

you might wrap your way out of that, hell, you might doctor your way out, you might add agency your way out. Whatever it is, you become upwardly mobile. And then people's experience with that reminds you, either remind you of that or the freedom of what you determined to be inextricable from blackness is an aphrodisiac. So whenever somebody is talking about what a white girl. girl will do for you or how white girls are, what they're essentially saying is that these people are so free that they don't care what happens to them. They don't feel, what I mean by that is this. It's like they don't feel like they need to protect. Nobody's trying to take their dignity, so

they don't feel like they need to protect it. Their dignity isn't wrapped up and what they might do sexually or what they might do for you. Meanwhile, some other people or another particular one, woman might feel she can't do something for you because that's giving you too much. And her life is going to be about this interesting dance about what she's able to give and what she's able to keep for herself. Because sometimes for black women, if they give it all, fucking will take it all. I won't leave anything left for her. So she's got to be a little, like Beyonce says, stingier with her love.

A lot of a bit more stingier with her time. Like that has to happen. And when guys get up to that point, they feel like they don't. don't want to deal with that anymore. Some of them feel like they don't want to deal with that because they feel like they've transcended that. They've transcended the need to understand and connect with the women in their community. They've transcended the need to be available and be a resource for the women that made their asses, right? And they change. And that's how you get this situation right here. You get a man that says, well,

black women are uptight. Well, there's an uptightness that comes from black women. There's an edge or something undesirable that comes from black women. And look at this lady. She hasn't had to deal with any of that. So rather than understand the causes the concerns. And by the way, not every black woman is uptight. That's not a generalization.

It's a lie. Not every black man is uptight. Oh, it's both. So, so, kind of looking at that situation, they, I feel two things happen. Number one, it's both an intellectual sort of assessment of something that they see or might not see. And then number two, it's, it's an intellectual sort of excuse. There was nothing intellectual about his, about what he had to say. But see, here's the thing, though.

I don't, I think that, I think that part of it, we shouldn't do. I think he thinks that it is. I know he thinks it is. But so what I'm saying is he's like he's made an assessment. He's completely taking any sort of context out of what it is that he believes himself. And he's made an assessment based upon a group of people that he's around now and wasn't around before. And that to me, when people say you can't lose your blackness is when you lose it. Who says you can't lose your blackness?

A lot of people say that. Okay. Well, press play. So when that's it. to me is how you lose your blackness. You lose your blackness, very simply, when you refuse to make the effort to connect with your community and to understand the dynamics of what people are going through in it. That to me is how you will lose anything. You will lose your Americanness. If you refuse to try to understand the American condition, you can lose your humanity if you refuse

to try to understand the human condition and you don't care about your fellow man. You don't care about what they might be going through. You'll give a fuck about what's happening to people like across street from you or another town from you. So I think you can definitely do that. And watching James Ro. Jones in that, I was tremendously surprised.

And another reason why I was tremendously surprised is I'll tell you why I was surprised. And this is always a surprising thing. The surprising thing is not that somebody is with a white woman. The surprising thing is somebody being like so bold and assaulting black women, right? I knew James Earl Jones as one of the stalwarts, the stalwarts in black performing excellence.

And I knew him from things like fences, things like coming to America, like you said, like Claudine. I knew him as being so aspirational, but never really ran away from the fact in any of the roles that he played that he was a black man. It's just, that was nuts to see. And it was scary in a lot of ways. It was scary because he did not think when he was giving that answer

that he was criticizing black women. I really think he thought that he was being sympathetic to them because of the struggle. They're uptight because of what they've been through their struggle and their history. He didn't realize that he was criticizing them and that's the scary part. He was saying that they were undesirable. Because, and it's not their fault. Yeah. Because of what they've been through.

and how black men haven't stepped up and taken up for them in history to now like they should have. That's what he was saying. That's the scary part because he doesn't look at it as that he was downing them. And it was also the scary part that he let that white man ask him those questions. And if you watch the full interview, he kept starting and stopping and starting and stopping. They were terrible questions. The purpose of the interview was to get this out. Yes.

And then furthermore, he let a white woman explain black women. So it was all disappointing and dangerous and a problem. And I'm shocked that I just now knew about this. Yeah. Well, I think we all just knew. But it's important to have the conversation because, you know, dating interracial, as inappropriate as it may be, and I'm just joking. It's just a joke.

Okay, guys. I smile. So dating interracially is what it is, what it is. But like establishing a superior. based upon that is just James Earl Jones and the people that are like them just relax Can I ask you quiet? Read the script. What about black guys that say they feel like black women don't desire them?

Because they're not tough enough or thug enough. I saw some guys on the internet that were saying that. Okay. They said they're not tough or thug. Do you see this video? No, I didn't. Two guys that were saying black women like the little baby. type?

I think women in general have, no, like they all go through a phase of, no, they all go through a phase of liking the quote unquote bad guy or the tough guy. So that's not specific to black women. Everybody goes to that, not everybody, a lot of women go through that phase where they think that's what they want. It's a form of rebellion. But don't just say that's black women and that's what black women want. Did you ever have a situation where you went to?

The thug. I never dated a... Yeah, you did. I did. Gold Teethis? Well, I had an open face. You lying? Yeah, I got it from Big T. Bazaar.

Shout to Big T. Bazaar. You had an open face goal in your mouth? Mm-hmm. Yo, nigger, what? You had what's called a lunch lady goal? Is that what you called it? Yeah, open face? That's what the lunch ladies wear.

Just four. So you have four open-faced goals. Just take it in it. out. You had a fake grill. Yeah, had a fake grill. Not like

nothing permanent. I know what I'm saying. So you didn't have an open face gold. You had a fake grill. Who gets a fucking open face grill? I like the outlining. Of the teeth?

Mm-hmm. We should get grills now. Do it. Like we should, Johnny Dang. We should get grills. Donnie, would you wear a grill? I don't know if I wear a grill.

I think I would have a gold tooth, though, like one singular one. I see it for you, Donnie. Oh, no one. Where? Top or bottom? Bottom. I think you see my bottom teeth.

The way my face works, you don't really see my top. He's really thought about this. He's a lot of it. So in Baton Rouge, I don't know how it is now, but in Baton Rouge, you couldn't have one gold tooth, one goal two. Really? Couldn't have one. They call it a lonely goal.

My grandmother had one goal too. Really? Damn. She's still with us? That's who I saw in Houston. She don't have it anymore. She took the goal out? She's got all, like.

Shit. She's all. The. That's your mom's dad or your dad's? My mom's mom. Your mom's mom. Yeah, pretty hair. They're on that shit, huh?

They're from... Fifth Ward and South Park. Fifth Ward and South Park. God damn, man. Some gold-toothed niggas. That's your whole fucking family. But you can't just get... That's why I love my family.

You can't get one goal. You can't just have a lonely goal. A lonely goal. What's up with these names? Lunch Lady Grill. Like, if you got a... If you got an open face, We would call that a lunch lady goal.

Like a whole set? Like the lunch ladies, like, the lunch ladies would have like an open face. I wasn't like a, but in Baton Rouge, if you was going to get a goal, if you're going to get a goal, you have to commit. Like juvenile? Yeah. But see, they changed the game because it was people that would get two, three goals or you get two at the top or two at the bottom. It was people that would get two. Then they started coming through and they got all of their teeth goal.

And niggas was like, what the fuck? And then Texas changed the game even more because Texas came through with the grills. We didn't really, we wasn't really on the grills like that. Texas came through with the grills. You could put the grill in. You could take the grill out. And that made mad niggas feel like, what the fuck? What did I do?

What did I do? I knew mad dudes was like, man, that shit. My cousin's like, man, that shit, that shit whack, bro. My shit for real, my shit permanent. We'll be like, you just wish you could take that out, bro. Maybe you should take that out and go to church with your grandmama. Anyway. How do we get all grills?

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garlic aoli, crumbled bacon, corn salsa, 40 grams of protein, made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweetgreen wraps hit different. Order now at order.com. There's been an worst warrant issued for the friend of Shaquilla Robinson. Mexican prosecutors have issued a restaurant, a worse warrant, should I say? They say that Robinson's death came from the result of a direct attack. They did not identify the alleged aggressor, but added that she is an American citizen who's currently believed to be in the U.S. The new details contradict how Robinson's friends originally characterized the death. They said that she wasn't feeling well.

She had alcohol poisoning, and they couldn't get a pulse. Each one of the people that was there with her was telling different stories. Yeah. They killed this girl, didn't they? They absolutely killed her. and the only reason that they're taking any type of or acting on it, the Mexican prosecutors, is because people got together and demanded justice for Chancilla. And if once again, when it comes to violence against black people, if there was no video, I don't think we would be here.

Because the coroner said that the story that, the story. that the mother got from those friends did not match her death certificate, which said that she had a severed spinal cord and or severe spinal cord injury and neck trauma. She died within 15 minutes of the injury. They knew that. And they still weren't making any type of action. It was the pressure from social media. It was the pressure that black people came together. I don't want to say black people. I'm sure it was more than that.

But came together and said, we want justice for her. And it was that video coming out. And that just goes to show. Like if there's not video evidence is as if it didn't happen to us. Our word alone is not enough. Her injured body with the death certificate was not enough. It's not enough. It's got to be outrage coupled with.

with a video, a photo, audio, something for there to be justice. The only thing we can hope for in this situation is that the family get some sort of closure. You know how I feel about saying justice for someone? There'll be no justice when somebody can't come back. It's just an absolutely gutting story. It is. And the audacity to think that a life could be taken in that way and everybody could just go back to what it is that they're doing.

I don't want to convict anybody before. Putting their cash shaps out for giving interviews to the highest bidder. I don't want to convict anybody before all the facts are in. So until we know what happened, we don't know what happened, but it's not looking good for the group she went down to Mexico with. Just say it that way. All right. Vance very serious question of today.

Are you ready for it? I am. If there are only two choices and you had to vote, who would you vote for, Kanye or Trump? I'm not doing this. Yes, you are. No, I'm pulling a Solidat O'Brien. It's a very serious question.

Remember she wouldn't answer? This is impossible. You have to answer. You need to answer. You answer. You answer. I do. I'm not going to fix my mouth to say Trump or yay.

You're going to vote for? Who can vote for? I'm not voting for the, I'm not voting. Who would you vote for? If it was Kanye Trump, I can't answer your question. Rachel. Rachel. She's falling asleep.

She's the question that's put her to sleep. Guys, I've got to admit something to all those thought words out there. This was the worst, it's very serious question. Thank you. Like, come on. Donnie, what about you? Who'd you vote for? I really, I'm going to follow Rachel's lead and sit this one out. It's the best thing to do, Donnie.

Did you got to see Herschel walk or moonwalking? The bone thugs. I did not. You didn't see Herschel walk and moonwalking? Where was this? You have to watch it. Hold on. New Vans, very serious question of the week.

Rachel, did you see Herschel walk or moonwalking? I did not. You have to look it up. He was moonwalking to crossroads by Bone Thugs and Harmony. Donna, you saw it? It's not popping up. Donna, you saw it? I'm trying to send it in a group chat.

It's endearing. It's like. Endering. Oh, maybe I did. He looks familiar with that. I mean, the red shirt. It's endearing? Yeah, something about it.

I did see. I did see it. Wait, what? But it wasn't a moonwalk. Why are we calling it a moonwalk? It was the robot. We're bearing the least. been here. Donnie, are you being serious right now?

It was hilarious. Not in that I would ever vote for him, but it was like, it was so funny that I was like, oh man, that was, Hershal Walker won that one. Danny, Danny, he's out here shucking and jiving. He's, there's nothing endearing about. It's like he completed shucking and jiving. Donnie said, he's out here performing for them. He is running for U.S. Senator. Why is crossroads? I guess I get the crossroads play. Take off the Kanye question. Like, this is a hilarious way to end the show.

Donnie, you, so what you're saying is, Hershey Walker, he came up a little bit with that one. See, saying came up is that's a stretch. I'm just saying that in that moment, seeing that, that was like hilarious in a way that Hershal Walker hadn't been to me. I don't know what it is. It's the way that he does the old man

moonwalk. What is he doing? And the fact that it's crossroads. Play it again? Look, why they listen to the why they listen to the crossroads? And he does that little jump before the moonwalk.

Something about it. Donnie, you like that shit? I do. That was funny. Take a thing, Casp's all, but do not stop learning. I am Van Laker. I'm Rachel.

Lindsay. Bye guys.