Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Republican National Convention, Biden’s Nomination Struggle, and the Spectacle of Current Politics With Bakari Sellers

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay talk about the pressure on President Biden to step down from Democratic nomination, as well as the media coverage of it (00:54). Then, Bakari Sellers comes on to talk about a possible Harris campaign and Biden’s chances in November (10:33 ). Later, we talk about Bronny James and whether he needs to be given a “break” (1:08:06). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Bakari Sellers Producer: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yeah, your thought warriors. Tyler is on. Is Ivan Lexington Jr.? And it's me, Rachel Lundland. Joe Biden. Whoa, it's okay, Brownie. You scared him. Brownie's in MySpace?

He literally ran over here. Brownie's in my space? The viewers don't like that. Brownie doesn't like that? The viewers don't like what? You beat it on the table, you know? I don't care what Brownie likes. I don't know why you bring your dog to the podcast.

Okay? I love Brownie. But this is not the place for Brownie. It's not a bring your... See, this is very unprofessional. People get excited. They don't. It's like therapy.

You smiled at Brownie. You said, look at Brownie. He likes me. You eat on the podcast. You bring your dog to the podcast. Like, what the hell's going on? Did you just give Brownie some green juice? No, that was for me.

Joe Biden, you guys, as we speak right now, something is happening. Over the past 24 hours, I have gotten three separate texts from three separate people, all of whom who are tapped in in different ways to the Democratic establishment, telling me that it is a done deal that Joe Biden will not be at the top of the ticket. Now, how do they know something that may be the rest of us do? And this is what I'm going to say.

It all depends on the access from these people, these people, some of these people have access. It's been frustrating to watch what I feel like the media is jumping on the hottest story. And I feel like rather than really considering the damage that this could be doing to voters, it's confusing. We're in it and I'm frustrated watching it. I'm like, it's just a lot to constantly believe one thing or be told one thing. And then all of a sudden the narrative's changing and the media keeps. pounding you over the head with it and I don't feel like it is beneficial

particularly to the Democratic Party. Why would the media try to be beneficial to the Democratic Party? Well, let's just say some networks are more lean more way than the other. Yeah, but I wouldn't want the media to think that we have to do what's right for the Democrats. But that's my point.

I don't believe that they're reporting, I believe that this seems to be just jumping on the bandwagon of what is hot, rather than really doing genuine reporting I'm losing my words here but do you understand what I'm saying

like to me this seems to be trendy and I know that that's like what the media does right? It's the hottest story right now

but it just seems to be overkill and I don't know if a lot of it is substantiated it's all like a theory like oh for example

Chuck Schumer right Senator Chuck Schumer it was that he had gone in and talked to him and had this conversation

and then he comes out And he's like, that's idle speculation. And so it's just like we're grasping at straws what it seems like from the media to be able to further this story or have a hot take on it. And I just don't feel like it's in the best interest of viewers. I don't know. It just... Let's go CNN right now.

Sure. I'm biased. All right. So this is on CNN right now. And the red top is Vice President Kamala Harris. speaks as more Democrats urge Biden to step aside watching in bold. Biden increasingly isolated from corners of his party. Of course, the president has tested positive for COVID-19. We're going to have Bacari Sellers on in a little while.

Talk us through some of this stuff. A lot of people say that the COVID-19 diagnosis is rather curious. I said that. At a time that Joe Biden is stepping aside to consider some things, it might be tamping it down a little bit and might be a way to get them some sympathy because people are going to be concerned about him. He's an older guy, blah, blah, blah. I tend to believe the guy has COVID. Here, CNN, Pelosi told Biden polls show he can't win. Schumer responds to reporting that he

asked Biden to step down. Democratic lawmakers are saying today about Biden's candidacy. Another one, Biden is receptive in talks about his future, senior Democratic advisor tell CNN. Analysis, Biden's darkest hour in Trump's greatest feat yet. Biden is trying to salvage his campaign. say things are getting worse, okay, all the way down here. Germany and Ukraine, despite possible Trump White House, Trump meeting with the Secret Service. The story is Biden, Biden, Biden, Biden at the instability and the instability at the top of the Democrat ticket.

That's everywhere. Now, the thing is, I guess my question is, what would you want the media to do? Because a lot of these stories, in my opinion, just like those people texted me, right? A lot of these stories are being fed to the media so that they're had in relevant spaces because people want to discuss,

they want to talk about the future of the ticket and whether or not the Democrats will have Biden at the top of that ticket, whether or not Joe Biden, something we talked to Baccari Sellers about, will even be the president because there are some that believe if, in fact, he does leave the campaign

that he should also resign and turn the country over to Kamala, Harris, let her appoint a new VP, and then move into November with her having the power of incumbency behind her as well. We asked Baccari about that. Baccarri, Baccarry, Bacchari, Bacchari, Baccarry. Now, going back to this, I don't think that the assessment that the media in some way should be in the bag for the Democrats.

I'm not saying in the bag, it just seems, okay, I'll take it back to the debate. the day after the debate, people were immediately calling for in the media. And I'm more so talking about maybe not like CNN that might be reporting. I'm talking about where there was a panel or an opinion-based show. Let's see what you mean. Immediately after it was Biden needs to step down. And since then, there has been. So I'm not talking about people who are just reporting the news or what they've been told.

It's these opinion-based shows that are on these networks. that I guess I feel like are grasping at straws to further this narrative because it's the hot topic rather than, and I guess as a viewer, as a voter, it's very frustrating and maybe a little bit confusing at times. That's what I guess I should say more than a news network reporting what they've heard. How much information on the stability of the party do you feel like you need? Do you want to know that there is? I want to know what we're doing. That's what I want to know. I guess that's my frustration.

And sorry, I don't mean to cut you off. I'm frustrated. I want to know what is, where direction are we going in? You know, I'm watching the RNC. I'm watching all these people talk. I'm watching, I don't know if it's really resonating with voters or undecided voters at all. But I'm watching them and whether they're lying or not, they seem to have to have it together. You know, like even unifying in constant.

stume with the bandage. Like they're all on the same page, lies, whatever you want to say. Where we just seem, we, the Democrats just seem to be completely discombobulated. And I just want to know, are we going this way or are we going that way? And I'm tired of like a report coming out about this senator said this, this congressman's calling and listening to other people in the House trying to see what they feel or what their constituents feel. these people are having a meeting with Biden. These people are meeting behind closed doors. What are we doing?

What are we doing? If Biden said what he said, then why are we not all rallying behind that? I'm really shocked at the Adam Schiff of it all. Adam Schiff, who we've had on this podcast before, who, you know, came out and went public with the fact that he wants the president to step aside. I think that there are a couple of things that are happening.

Obviously, there's growing pressure on Biden to step aside. And I think that pressure is coming from inside the party. And I think that they're using the media to leverage that pressure. They've talked to the president. The president said no. He said, no, he doesn't want to leave. So in order for them to get their point across, then they need to build a groundswell of public opinion concerning the future of the ticket. And they're using the media to do that. The question is, is that the right thing to do? Why? is Joe Biden the right candidate to move on with?

Why is he the wrong candidate to move on with? This is why we're bringing on Baccari Sellers. We're bringing on Bacchari Sellers to discuss this in great detail and to talk about what it means to have a possible Kamala Harris campaign. Yeah. What Joe Biden's chances in November are, actually. There's polling. some of these polls are getting worse.

Some of these polls are showing not much movement at all. Right? I'm on 538 right now. I'm going to use the odds on 538. I'm going to right now, this is, as we record this, by the way, I want to let everybody know that Trump is going to speak at the RNC tonight. We are going to have to react to that next week because we are not going to be able to, we were recording a podcast before that's going to happen.

I'm looking at it right now. Some of the polling here seems to be greatly affected, but not just the assassination attempt on Donald Trump, but obviously the disastrous performance at the debate some time ago. But some of it doesn't show as much movement as you would think. It depends on the poll that you look at. So the question that a lot of voters are asking, particularly voters that want to defeat Donald Trump,

is what are the chances that Joe Biden can defeat Donald Trump? what are the chances that Kamala Harris can defeat Donald Trump or is there another candidate waiting in the wings that can do that? We're going to talk to Bukari Harris on the... Bukari Harris. We're going to talk to Bacari Sills on the other side of this break. The playoffs are here

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I must be missing it. Yeah. So guys, that's a familiar voice you hear. That's the voice of CNA contributor, the South Carolina native host of the Bacari Sellers podcast. bestselling author. How many times? New York Times bestselling author.

How many times? Two times. Two times. Yeah. Don't forget that. Two times. Back to back, he's the Drake

of the literary world. Don't let him do you like that. Yeah, that analogy was good two years. I don't even think it fits no more. Save that for your light skin, guess, please. There you go. And the recent book is on the New York Times

bestsellers list as well. Are we correct? It is not. It is not. No, it should have been. It should be, should have been the moment. No, it's just fucking this up. Do you know me, man?

Have we met? Look, here's a deal. You want to take over? I love the book. Thank you. I did. I love the book. Baccarri Sellers joins us on Higher Learning today.

Baccarri, what the fuck is going on, man? Like, what's going on, Baccar? It's not funny. It's chaos. It's chaos. It's chaos, chaos, chaos and more chaos and disarray. I mean, right now you have the backdrop of the R&C, which is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

I love saying it like that, because T. Payne is the great artist who made Wisconsin rhyme with Mansion. I, you know, you've seen people like Rachel's dear friend, Amber Rose, speak at the RNC. You've seen tonight you'll see Hulk Hogan. You'll see Kid Rock. You'll see Dave, what's the guy, UFC guy? Dana White.

Dana White. Dana White. Yeah, you'll say Dana White. It's going to be a showmanship machismo type deal. Last night, you saw the unveiling of J.D. Vance, who I didn't have enough coffee or Coca-Cola or cocaine to get through that. It was very boring. But you did see some great speeches last night. Like Kai Trump, who is Donald Trump Jr.'s daughter, she gave a phenomenal speech.

And then the Gold Star families, that presentation, I mean, your heart just kind of wept for them. And so you have all of that in the backdrop with the Democratic Party trying to figure out who's going to be at the top of the ticket. And then the young man who's at the top of the ticket contracting COVID. And, you know, I don't know if he got it from what's our homeboy's name who interviewed him another day? I don't know if he got it. Yeah. I don't know if he got it from Speedy. Shout out Speedy.

Get well soon. I hope you're quarantined in for 30 days, brother. Because either you gave it to him or you might have it. So, you know, I hope I wish the president well. Speedy actually had a better interview than Lester Holder, the president. But it's just, it's an interesting time that we're in. You know, as we're talking, you know, you see the stories about Barack Obama saying to allies and friends that there's really no viable pathway for Joe Biden and he needs to preserve his legacy. So we'll see what happens.

I feel very discouraged. I don't even feel like talking about this. I feel like we've been going back and forth for so. long about since the debate about Biden and his health and where he stands. And if the party's rallying behind him and just on this last podcast, we said, well, it seems like the dims are unifying now since the assassination attempt. And then you have Adam Schiff come out and basically say that he believes that Biden should step down. So where does, well, let me ask this. How likely do you think it is that Biden's going to step down? So that's a weird question. So let's

Let's back up just a little bit and go back to June 27. I would argue to your point that Dems through the bedwetting, the public pearl clutching, et cetera, have done more damage to Joe Biden than Joe Biden did to himself on June 27th. What you're seeing is eroding the faith that people have in the process. You're seeing these public spectacles like Adam Schiff coming out. And then that kind of raised me to my second point, which is that nothing happens in politics and evacue.

you like Adam Schiff didn't just wake up and say, man, today's a good day to write this op-ed piece. I mean, George Clooney doesn't write op-ed pieces without, you know, Obama world knowing that that's going to be written. Adam Schiff doesn't write op-ed pieces without or come out publicly and say that without Nancy Pelosi, given that green light. Why all of a sudden, if there are three people in a meeting, it's Akeem Jeffries, Nancy Pelosi, and Joe Biden, why does everybody in the world know what happened in that meeting? That means that your meeting did not go well, and you're trying to apply pressure. from other ways. Now, if you turn the page, what is happening to make these individuals feel that pinch? And what you're seeing is there are a lot of donors who have put pressure on leadership in the Democratic Party because they fundamentally believe, due to whatever reason, their own

self-interest, or polling, or what they view to be their view of politics or all of the above, or whatever it is, that Joe Biden doesn't pose the greatest chance for success. So they've been putting pressure on leadership the Nancy Pelosi, the Akeem Jeffries. And what that means is the monies that you need for majorities in the House get dried up and frontline candidates who are in those tough swing districts who not many you've heard from are dependent upon those funds. You see a Senate that's, we have 51 now. And you see a Senate that, you know, if it goes 53 or 54 to the Republican Party turns into, we turn into a vastly different country and they're freezing money up in that perspective as well. And then, of course, at the top of the ticket, we're flushed

with cash. We have $240 million, but that's nowhere near enough to get through the next four months. And so that spigot has been turned off, applying a lot of pressure to Joe Biden so that individuals can see someone new. The trick to that is also the danger, which is a lot of these same folk don't want Kamala Harris. And that's when, you know, and this battle a lot is about Kamala Harris. And that's when I send out messages that are not in a vacuum either. Like last night when I tweet, skip over Kamala Harris, it's at your own peril. That's not a, that's not me feeling frisky, but that's me talking to people in ways that they understand. And so when, you know, when people wake up or donors wake up or persuasive elected officials wake up and they say, Bukari Sellers and many others are saying this, you have to think twice about that.

So nothing happens in a vacuum there. A lot of things moving. The only thing we know absolutely is that the convention, is going to be a lot of fun in Chicago. If you ask me today, who will be the leader of the Democratic Party going forward is probably Joe Biden. If you ask me, who gives us the best chance, it's probably Joe Biden and then Kamala Harris. And if you want to know why, I can answer that question as well. Yeah, I want you to answer that question.

I want to say a couple of things. One is I do think the reaction to the debate was warranted. I think the reaction to the debate was warranted. I'll put it to you like this. If a couple of years ago in the finals, like Jalen Brown, the big knock on Jalen Brown was that he couldn't dribble. He was turning the ball over, right?

If everybody is watching for one thing, let's say they would have got to the finals now, and Jalen Brown would have averaged six, seven turnovers the game. It would have mattered everything else that he'd have done. Everyone was watching for one thing. It was the reason that they were paying attention to him. So there was extra added focus on it, and a lot of people came away going,

you know, if you're a Celtics fan, you might have gone, hey, we're never going to win the championship with this guy. He can't go left. He's turning the ball over. So Biden's overall performance in the debate wasn't what I think shocked people. It was the fact that at times during the debate, he did not look like he was in any way capable of being on that stage. And that was the one thing that they were watching for him.

I will say this, watching four. I will say this. after a couple of days of it after a week of it like I was watching CNN going they kicking his fucking ass they turned me because I like

after like a week and a week and a half of it I was like they bust in his ass everywhere you went they were busing his ass and that's kind of the point when I went okay man

like what the fuck is that what the but that's what you're right and that's when I came down and I was telling folk, look, you ain't going to sit here and have me say that we won the debate. He got his ass kick. He looked like death warmed over.

He was sick. The cough bothered me. He was pale. He did the thing with the open mouth. You know, when like that, you got your mouth open. Like that, it was weird. He had spurts where he punched back. But all in all, it was a, it was, that would have been a, you know, in a boxing match,

he might have won two of the 12 rounds, but it was going to be a unanimous decision. and it wasn't really close, right? I mean, and that's hard when you're up against Donald Trump because it over, it kind of overlooks the fact that he lied like 28 times, right? Every other sentence that came out of his mouth was a lie. And so, yeah, that was bad.

And the response to it was fine. But what I told John Stewart last week, and I was on with John Stewart, Tommy Vitter, and John Faberow is, look, we got a choice. Like, this election's choices. And you got three of them. That's all you got. You only got three choices in this race. So you're going to go with the old guy who fucked up a debate or you're going to go with the sociopath who's pushing Project 2025 or you're going to sit on the couch. Those are literally the only three choices you have. And so that is why I was so peeved and think it's political malpractice for what people who I admire and adore are doing in public because they act as if they don't have the urgency to understand what comes with the next four years. Also, they should know that Joe Biden doesn't respond to public pressure. I mean, you can just go back to 2020 when the far left and everything wanted Joe Biden to be, you know,

a firebrand liberal. And he just ain't that. I mean, he stayed who he was and he actually won the nomination and won the presidency. So I've been a little disturbed by that. You want to know why I believe Joe Biden probably gives you the best chance to win. Before I get there, before we get there, one question. So I just want to clarify something. Are you saying that it's, from what you said earlier, are you saying that it's not necessarily the intellectual belief based upon polling data or anything coming from inside the Democratic brass that Joe Biden can't win, but they're actually captured by the donor class of the left in who believes that? And then they are forced to then push the candidate out because I believe that's probably 1A.

But people saw the debate with their own eyes and some of them have that as a as a reasoning. And some people see polling and see it as a reasoning. The reason I don't about polling is one is July. So presidents are not won and lost in July. We have elections that are held every November, the first Tuesday in that month, and we're still four months out. So much shit can change, right? That's first. I mean, all you got to do is think, look at this RNC convention.

And you know what it reminds me of? The DNC in 2016. I mean, people were getting job applications. People were seeking out ambassadorships. You couldn't tell me that Hillary Clinton won't going to be president of the United States, right? It was that sense of inevitability. and we got our ass kick them. We were wrong about it.

And so I do think it's the donor class squeezing. I think it's the polling. I think it's the debate. I think it's the fact that he has not been able to successfully clean up after the mess that happened on the 27th. I mean, kind of the blessing and the curse for everybody is that he does just well enough in these interviews, right? He doesn't have an interview where he just completely falls apart, but he does just well enough to get by. so it doesn't heighten the level of sensitivity, but instead a lot of times it remains.

You know, if he just went in an interview and if he was on it with Speedy and just fell apart, then that would, you know, the calls would be more sound. And so that's just, it's, the donor class for me is probably 1A and the pressure they are applying. But it all ties it together. Again, I think the theme of this is nothing happens in a vacuum.

Now, why do you think Joe Biden is the best candidate to be down Trump? Well, it comes down to, It's a one thing when you look at demographics. So elections are one not because of geos, and people look at geos all the time. In fact, sometimes we're decently reductive and we refer to like states or geographies as the reason people. But elections are really won based upon demographics. They work. Elections are one based on demos, not geos.

And so when you look at demos, one of the things that people have to recall is that Democrats have never fared well in recent history with white voters until a young man named Joe Biden. For example, one of the lows that we received was in 2012, and this would be, you know, hopefully Kamala could outperform this, but it would be hard. Barack Obama only got 38% of white voters, right? That 38% of white voters, he was able to bolster his victory by having young folk, black folk, Hispanic folk, right? And so it was, it's something that, it's a coalition that Joe Biden does. doesn't really have to recreate. Because right now, he's winning white seniors, white women, white college, and white suburbs. That's 70% of the electorate, right?

And so a lot of these polls you're seeing that have Donald Trump doing some wild shit, like winning 20% of the black vote, 45% of the Hispanic vote. I will literally sell you the Hollywood sign in Hollywood if he's able to achieve those heights, which he will not, right? And so Joe Biden, based upon demos, puts you in the best possible situation. situation. Kamala Harris will have a hard time winning white seniors. She'll have a better chance of winning white women. She probably, am certain, will win white college, and she would have to pray to hold on to white suburbs. And so then you're talking about, what does he have to do to win? Kamala has to do amazing stuff with black voters. She has to do amazing stuff with young voters and Hispanic voters. And the question is, can you do that in three and a half months? She's the best situated to do it. I'm going to work damn hard. if she's the nominee to do it, but we just have to be clear out about what our obstacles are.

Yeah, I mean, looking at the dims right now and seeing how they seem to be so divided, let's say, because everything that's coming out right now is, you know, people close to Biden are saying he's going to make a decision. He's going to drop out the race. Like, that's what the headlines keep saying. Can I say something real quick?

They want, in the last 24 hours, I've gotten three texts from three different people telling me it's done. He's out. They want me to say that on the podcast today. Why do they want you to say it? They want to put the narrative out there that the decision that has been made. It seems like that's the narrative in the last 24 hours.

So I guess my question is, one, let's just, like, by the time we get off this podcast, who knows, there might be a headline that says that or the time this comes out. So if he does step down, and it is Kamala Harris who steps in, like, do we have enough faith that the Dems can rally behind her and Unify to push that forward? Yeah, the answer is yes, because the number one Democratic unifier's name is Donald Trump. But you have to look at there, there has to be like a few things that happen here. The first is one man because he won the primary controls the decision, right? He might listen to Jill.

Well, not might. He does listen to Jill. He might listen to Valerie, who's his sister. But it's one man's decision. There's no mechanism to remove him. Like, it's his choice. he is the nominee. The second thing you have to do is figure out what the handoff looks like. Right?

And that's going to be tough because there are a lot of personalities involved in that. And I'll just leave that at that. Then the third thing you have to do is with the delegates and get through the convention because Gavin's already said he wouldn't challenge her. And Gretchen already said she's not challenging her. So you don't really have Wes ain't challenging her. Raphael's not challenging her. You don't have the top flight candidates challenging her.

you might have like a Dean Phillips or some weirdo challenge her. But that's not that much of a issue, but you still have to go through that process. She is the only person who there are like 600 staffers in Delaware, right? You're not moving the campaign headquarters. You're not changing the state party chairs. With Kamala is kind of like the best way to describe it is this kind of like Trent Dilfer from the Baltimore Ravens when they won the school. Super Bowl. Like, she has to come in and quarterback what is an awesome team around you.

Like, it's already in place. You just have to literally come in and quarterback it. And I believe she'll overperform. I know Kamala very, very, very well. I mean, I've talked to her often. I just saw her again recently. I remember where we were. I hosted an event for her and, and I's Michael Ely. And, you know, we just, that's my, I love her, but I'm a heart. And I know she's more than capable of rising to this challenge. It's a hell of a challenge though. A black woman versus Donald Trump in this environment is going to be.

And I mean, the question, I was talking to one of my good friends this morning who's a big, big, big, big, big Democratic donor. And he said, are y'all ready for that bullshit? And it's funny, I was in my chat group with some black thinkers. And I was like, are y'all ready for that bullshit that's coming your way? And the first response was, well, if she's not ready, at this time, she shouldn't have taken a job. And my respondent, I said, I didn't ask if she was ready. I asked, are y'all ready? Like, Van and Rachel, your head is going to spin with the amount of vitriol, misogyny, racism that is going to come the way of Kamala Harris.

She's, she sucked and fucked her way to the top. She's dumb. She laughs too loud. Just all of the fucking despicable, vile things. I mean, they're going to call her nigger. They're going to call her unintelligent. They're going to call her nappy-headed black woman. And then the fact she's married to a white Jewish dude.

And it ain't going to just come from the far right. It's going to come from some of Vans homeboys, too. Yeah. They're going to sit here and have to... Oh, I'm dead as serious. Yeah, it is. Like, he's right. Internet is going to be terrible with this.

Your homeboys, too, by the way, our homeboys. Yeah, they are offering them. But still, you know, I... You know, I'm prepared for it. She's prepared for. She's built like Iraq. And she don't... You don't become vice president of the United States

to be the first female vice president, let alone black female in the history of this country and not be prepared for. Is the country prepared for her is the question? If, in fact, it were to be turned over to her, should Joe Biden resign? I think he has to. He will not. But it's going to be a tough question for to answer going forward.

But my goal, my, the question of how can you not run for President of the United States, but continue to cognitively lead the free world. How are you able to do that? Like you're not up for the job to run for president, but you're up for the job to lead the free world. Makes no sense. And so he's going to have to figure out how to answer that question. And the problem is she's going to have to answer that question as well.

And that's something that's going to linger over her campaign. It may, if he, if he were to not resign, If you were to turn things over and to not resign, does it make her road to the White House harder? It's a question she has to answer. And I'm trying to limit the number of questions she has to answer. It ain't going to make it harder. But if you give her the reins to be president of the United States and she gets the power of incumbency, even for four or five, six months, maybe. To circle back to the RNC last night is tonight, J.D. Vance being announced, because we didn't really talk about it, happened after we have finished our episode.

Jady Vance being announced and adding to the 10th. ticket, do you think that helps Trump gain voters or it just keeps things the status quo? Oh, no, it doesn't help. So that's the unique thing about J.D. Vance. J.D. Vance does not help Trump in any tangible way.

Like, he doesn't help with the demographic. He doesn't help with the state. What he does do is give an intellectual voice to mag-extremism. Rachel, J.D. Vance does not believe in no-fault divorce. J.D. Vance does not believe that women should really be out in the workforce. J.D. Vance believes in a nationwide abortion ban.

J.D. Vance refers to like single women as cat ladies, et cetera, a miserable cat ladies, etc. I mean, there is nothing about him, which is a futuristic look into what this country should be with his views. I mean, he gets kind of dark, but he's smart as shit. He's a Yale tech bro. And, you know, he said, he, you know, they tell us to dial down the temperature, but I have to remind folks, it was J.D. Vance who called Donald Trump, Hitler, right? That wasn't, that wasn't Van, like Ethan O'Bakari selling. That was J.D. Vance that called that man that, right?

And me, you, and Vann have something in common. And J.D. Vance. We all four of us voted for Hillary Clinton. Mm-hmm. So it's, it's weird, the backbone or lack the backbone that people have to get to, you know, those extremes of power. You know, it's funny. I read Hillbilly Elegie when it was released back in the day. It's a fantastic book.

You were into it, yeah. Fantastic book. Very good. In fact, my first book, my Vanishing Country, that one was a New York Times bestseller. On Amazon, they actually say and compare it to a black Hillbilly Elegy. J.D. Vance has transformed from a moderate, I'd say, Mitt Romney, almost centrist,

Republican to a MAGA extremist with some of the worst ideas in record time. Based on his proximity to the president, he's become more and more and more MAGA. He was sort of the voice of the white working class when that dropped, but of a hopeful, a hopeful voice of the white working class. And as soon as he, he transitions to politics, just went extreme extreme hard right. Yeah. It's actually pretty remarkable.

So Van Jones, got to ask about this. He saw Amber Rose's they're going to pick up that facial tick that you just made just to let you know. He saw Amber Rose's speech. Her speech at the RNC

and said that she was basically a devastating weapon for the right that she was going to be able to pull people over to their side and sway them with how she spoke. She's basically Cape Verdean Obama is what he, basically how he just described her. What did you think about his assessment of her? Do you feel like Amber Rose, her trip to Magaland, is going to change anybody's votes?

No, I don't think you'll be surprised. And Van, who's a good friend of mine, I'm literally, part of the reason I'm on CNN is because of Van Jones. back in 2015. Cool guy. Cool dude. Cool guy. Yeah, no, no, no. Say this.

That's my guy. Got to say it. Cool guy. Got to call bullshit on the Amber Rose thing. Me and Van Jones have had our past. Cool guy. He is not surprised that I disagree with him on that notion either. I mean, I don't think that black folk are simple enough to get behind someone like Amber Rose,

who actually, I don't have any issue with. I think she's an attractive person. I don't, I don't get into business of slutching. I mean, I think, you know, she gets out of it. I think she's an attractive person. She is. She is. She's beautiful.

I was saying, I never knew I was into. Same positive things. I know. He's not going to be Janjohnals. I never knew I was into ballheaded women until I saw Amber Rose. I mean, it's definitely pretty. It is what it is. And, you know, and I think that she is charting her own lane.

I'm disappointed in the tact that she's taken, allowing herself to be co-opted by the MAGA movement. There has to be an ulterior motive. I saw their video they put out that they played in the RNC, which I would laugh at if I wasn't so hurt by the fact that Ambrose and Republicans, particularly those over the convention, think that they can woo black voters over with that level of anti-intellectualism. And so, yeah, I disagree with Van on that fundamental principle, because I don't think that. that when black voters see Amber Rose, they see an individual who will guide them to a promised land. He couldn't have been serious. You know, sometimes I feel like people just start saying things to say things.

There's no way that you could have, you could be in touch with the black community and to truly believe that Amber has influential. I think, Van, I think if you asked him, he would say that as a conviction in his belief. And I think that one of the things about Van that people oftentimes don't realize, is that he doesn't say things that are flipping. Van is usually a chess player that he said that for a reason. Now, we may not know what that reason is today, but he is somebody who plays like 3D chess.

And so we'll figure out where that is and see what happened. Van has helped a lot of black folk get out of jail. He's been at the forefront of the Green Revolution. And I just think he was wrong about Amber Rose. And that's what I tell folk all the time. Like when Charlemagne or Van Lathen say some dumb shit, I ain't going to disown them. just going to say they said some dumb shit, right?

And they still go be my boys. That's just the way. And that happens more times than not, Rachel, I was going to say, you have to do that a lot. It happens a lot. Happens a lot. I want to ask you something. So, look, I saw you on real time,

and you were on there. You had a conversation with Ben Shapiro. You guys fucking seemed like you were best friends. Okay. It was a very pointed conversation. But I was actually impressed. with each of you. You guys never broken to ad hominem.

Never once. It was contested speech. It was free speech, but it was productive speech. Very productive between you two.

And, you know, sometimes it was you against Ben and Bill Maher. What advice or tips pointers do you give to people when they are speaking across the aisle to people from the other side? Ben Shapiro is not just somebody who you have political disagreements with. I would argue that at times Ben, Ben Shapiro has, it vacillates from being far-right

firebrand to actual intellectual terrorist. But you guys were able to have a conversation that was a very human one about your differences without it going off the rails. And that's something that I'm not very good at. How do you do it? So, yeah, you know, one thing is when you, when you have these discussions, you have to be willing to meet people where they are and go in those spaces. And so I appreciate Bill for giving me the space to have that conversation. Honestly, that wasn't, the conversation about race that we had wasn't on the list of topics that we were going to discuss. Yeah. But he wanted to take it there. And I think at the end of the day, what we realize is that Ben Shapiro and I disagree on, you know, 90% of things out

there, 95% of things out there. But we had a respect for each other. And the last thing I wanted to do was get to a place where I embarrassed people like you and Rachel, who I call my friends, even though Rachel wouldn't change her schedule to accommodate me last week. And so I am you know, I am, it's funny because people who watch the show, you know, black folk, liberals, progressives, and a lot of Republicans, conservatives, I mean, everybody's come up to me and said, you know, I don't necessarily agree with everything you said, but I appreciated the dialogue. And so I'd be willing to do that with Ben again. I, like I told Ben to his face, I was like, I think some of the things you say are intellectually dishonest. You're brilliant, but some of the things you say are, you know, enveloped in intellectual dishonesty. And part of the push and full was that, Ben was coming from a very intellectual perspective that was preserving his way of life. And my response to him and Bill was very personal one for what I'm going through with my black experience of being a black man in this country. And so I'm not articulating something necessarily that I just read about.

I'm talking about my experiences. And then when we were talking about African American female mortality, that's a very personal experience that's actually overlaid with science. So it was a fun discussion. And you, one of the things, and you know this van, one of the things that I did, I actually prepared for that interview because I know I was going. I don't always prepare for interviews. I was decently sober, not fully sober, but sober enough.

I had to get the edge knocked off just a little bit. And afterwards, I'll share this with you guys because your friends, I just went in my green room, kicked the people in my green room out, cried a little bit, just to kind of decompress on that person, then walked out and we drank some Casamigos. That's what you should do. Cry in Casamigos? Something to take the edge off. Nah, man.

Before. Get a little bit before. Oh, before. Before. I did it. I did a little shot or two before. Always do. Okay.

I do that sometimes too. Baccaron, made people feel good about November. On a high note, high note is that only one is darkest can you see the stars. And right now it's dark as hell outside. I would tell you guys the most amazing part of it. about this, about the United States of America's that polls don't decide elections. And we have so much power. And black folk have so much power.

And they're asking us to save America again. And you know what we're capable of doing? Saving this motherfucker one more time. All right. We're getting sick of it now, Baccarre. Like, we'll come out. I'm with you. I'm like, okay, just okay.

We'll come out. I'm tired of this shit. Now, I'm tired of. But they don't put the, they don't put the emblem up this. sky. I mean, if we don't do it, then you'll be sitting here next year talking about how slavery looks. No, you'll be doing it. I'll be in Vancouver.

You're going to go down with the shit. I'm going to be a Canuck, baby. I'm going to be like, you, Baccarry. You're going to be an original grizzly? I'm going to be up there. Original grizzlies, not like us, the whole nine, the whole fucking shit. Cherief.

Shereef, Abdulrah. It's of the whole fucking nine. You remember. remember the logo. All right. We're going to let you go, brother. You know, actually, one more question before I'll let you go. Jesus, this interview was supposed to be 20 minutes. I know. Just one more question, though.

The narrative around the assassination attempt. Seeing some people struggle to discuss it. Yeah, yeah, let's just, let's just, let's just, let's just put a pin in this. I am somebody who praise often for both of our leaders and leaders of the Republican Party and Democratic Party. I thank God that Donald Trump, just from a very spiritual place, is alive.

From a very selfish place. And I asked my pastor if I could pray selfishly. He said, of course, I'm thankful that that bullet wasn't an inch in another direction because I'm not sure this country could withstand that. Where I'm taping right now, I literally have a city of Columbia Police Department car parked out front. Thank God. And shout out to the CPD. And shout out to our local law enforcement agency because, you know, I have a credible threat that was the guy said, I'm going to fucking kill you and your fucking family just like they tried to kill Trump yesterday. You nigger fuck, kill yourself before I get to you and get to your family, right? So I understand that political violence plays no role. I'm nuanced enough and I believe we're all smart enough to know that when I say that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy and a fascist and authoritarian, I'm trying to vote him out of office.

And I believe in the ballot box, not that violence. But, you know, everybody who wants to say it was a hoax and all that other, you guys can have your little point on the Internet. I'm just going to stay prayed up. There you go. McCarrey, thank you for joining us, my brother. Peace, love you, both. Well, love you a lot, man.

You are all right, Rachel. Come on. You come back right. You come back right. We welcome you anytime. All right. I'm going to bring to Casamigos and we're going to do it in studio. We might even roll up.

Yeah, the whole thing. Casamigos roll up. The whole night. We do it all. All right. All right. Peace. All right. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business.

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This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

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You talk to Bacari. I feel better. You feel better? I feel better after talking to Bacari. Why don't you want him on a podcast? Stop that. Y'all need to stop that rumor. You said he couldn't come

during our podcasting time. He said he was flexible. You didn't convey that. So it really comes down to you really didn't want him to be on this podcast. So here's the situation with that. Bacari is a politician. Wow.

Macari was here to do Bill Maher's big-time show. And the reality is he couldn't move around his schedule to come here and hang with the niggles. He didn't say that part. So y'all just decided to blame me, the black woman. He decided to blame me. How come black women can't take responsibility for the decisions to take back? They do when the decision is actually something that affected. Why?

Because you have to leave time. I did. But after talking to Bakari, I feel like it's calm my nerves. You know, we look at these polls, we believe these polls, and for him to say, listen, it's July. Yes, to recognize they need to figure out what they're doing. They need to unify and then be one voice moving forward. He says the DNC is going to be very fun. I'm just hoping we're all together by the time we get to that point.

But, I don't know, it makes me feel like it calms me down. a little bit, you know? Because, I mean, after the assassination attempt, everyone's like, it's Trump, it's Trump, it's Trump. And even I got caught up in that a little bit. The majority of these polls I'm looking at right now have Trump up to varying degrees. As much as plus six,

as little as plus one, depending on the pollster. Obviously, the polls are different based upon who they're polling, whether or not these are registered voters that they're polling, whether or not these are likely voters that they're polling. who's doing the poll. All of this stuff is in play when you're looking at these numbers.

But as we talked about with Bakari, it seems as if the donor class of the party of the Democrats is making this decision, which... Because they cut off the money. Well, yeah, I mean, he said that very plainly. So it seems as if they're making this decision, which is interesting to say the least. George Clooney gets to decide.

I thought it was interesting that he said they've cut off the money, but it's not for sure if those people want Kamala Harris. Yeah, they probably don't want her. They probably want Gavin. I'll tell you something. He's not running. So here's the thing. I've seen Gavin. I've seen people talk about Gretchen Whitmer.

I mean, whatever happens. Anything but a black woman. 28 will be very interesting if, in fact, did Democrats lose? in November, the blood support that will be 2028 with all of those really exciting young candidates vying for the White House.

I'll say this. So at that fundraiser, when Gavin Newsom walked in, there was a roar of applause. In California. Yes. He was the bell at a ball. Okay.

He was the bell of the ball. They loved them. But don't quite think that he's going to be the guy this time. If they make a change, it will be very hard to see it being anybody other than Kamala Harris. The R&C is going on. Have you watched any of it? I've watched it here and there. It's a lot.

It is a lot. You sat down and watched the whole thing? No. No, I didn't. I didn't sit down and watch the whole thing. I didn't. I can't. It's hard, man.

I have to watch as much of it as I can to be up on everything that's being said and to have the information and the knowledge, but it's very difficult to watch it. It is. It's tough. It really is. It's difficult to watch them niggas up there, man.

You niggas at the R&C make it tough to watch out. And that was day one. They said, we coming out here and showing you how diverse our party is and possibly the future of it, the way they were up there talking. They had all, it seems like most black Republicans have prominent teeth. You notice like the most odd things, I swear.

You don't see this? They have prominent teeth. Why is this? I don't know if it's all of them, but the ones you're referring to who spoke. That one guy, it looked like he was foaming at the mouth, too. Did you see the corners of his mouth? Is that the one who said you ain't black?

Yeah, what, who is? Let's talk about him for a second. What's that guy? What was his name? I heard a little bit earlier today. If you don't vote Donald Trump, you ain't black. John James. Let's talk about John James real quick.

We fucking with you, John. John James. Look at the teeth. Okay, but not everybody has those teeth. Look at the teeth, man. I will give John James this, though. I'll give him this. He got a strong hairline.

At least he goes to a decent barber. A lot of times they don't, they don't, the teeth is crazy. Yeah, but they're not all like that. John James is, I want to know if he's married to a black woman. Let's see. John James is out there. What is he doing?

He married his wife, Elizabeth. What she looked like? When he was dating Elizabeth, he had an encounter with police at a mall in the suburb of Detroit in which officers drew their guns on him. James believes that if Elizabeth had not, not been beside him. He might have been killed. He has also expressed his fear of being, his fear of being killed whenever police pull him over at a traffic stop. So John has the understanding. So I guess for John, he's going to help us with police reform. Well, John

refers to himself as a, an open-minded, free-thinking conservative. Okay. He refers to, calls the Republican Party, the Party of Emancipation and the Civil Rights Movement. You think John's wife is white or black? Black. She's white as fuck. I didn't want to assume with like an Elizabeth. Let's, okay.

Well, we know Byron Donald's is white. I'm looking at all the black people who spoke. Is Ben Carson's wife, White? Oh, no. I think she's black. She might be black. Eric Johnson. Don't matter, man.

It's like. Mark Robinson. What does his wife look like? I'm not sure if she's probably. Oh, speaking of that, with the selection of J.D. Vance as the vice president, the running mate for Trump on the ticket. I just want to one more time send a shout out to Tim Scott.

Who? Whose wife? Mark Robinson's wife? There you go. Good for her. I want to send a shout to Tim Scott, man. Tim, you almost have. had it, dog.

Did he? Tim was almost dead. He wasn't even in the top three named. Tim got, he got himself the latest model of white woman. He got, he did the whole thing. Tim, you almost had it, bro. Tim, they might appoint you secretary of niggas. That will probably be the job that he gets in the cabinet.

Can you imagine if he doesn't even get in the cabinet? He'll get in the cabinet. Can you imagine? He'll get in the cabinet. Secretary of niggas will be his job. Tim Sky will be secretary and niggins. And he still be the same person. Yeah.

Still be fighting for you. Don't ban. What we have to do is remember that the only way to succeed is President Donald Trump. President Donald Trump convinced me to go out and actually be with a woman. I didn't know the feeling of the silky vagina. Okay. Until President Donald Trump said, Tim. Tim, go out there, grab one by the pussy.

Take her back to your room and make the sweet love to her. And now, look at me. I've had sex at least three times, almost to completion. And now I want to turn my... I just want to see how far you got to keep going because you already took it too far. It's so inappropriate. We should ask McCarri about old Tim.

This is his friend. That's his man. Trump is speaking tonight. Like I said, we don't know what Donald Trump is going to say. There was some talk that maybe 50 Cent would be out there with Donald Trump. That will squash pretty quickly. Somebody got in touch with somebody over at TMZ and said the 50 Cent will not be with Donald Trump. The interesting thing is whether or not Donald Trump will walk out to a 50 cent song.

Does that have to be approved? Probably. I mean, they've done it before where they haven't. And then the artist is... complained. I think all of this was maybe a misconception of some sort. Maybe he'll walk out to Miniman.

No, stop. Everybody was saying that. Everyone on the internet was saying he was going on to Middeman. I saw a very funny video on TikTok about that. No, he's not coming out to many men. And the thing is, that's,

you want to talk about what would resonate the most of Black voters, the Miniman song? You think so? It ain't Amber Rose. It's not Tim Scott. It's not Byron Donald. It's not any of them.

People would at least have liked that music is better than the Trump-Trump baby we saw. Speaking of Amber Rose, I want to say this. We've had Amber Rose on the show before I've known Amber Rose for some years. I want to say this about Amber Rose. Emerald talked, she spoke, she was up there at the RNC, the full weight of her celebrity and who she is behind Trump and the MAGA movement. That's significant.

She is not the only. only person inside of hip-hop that has, or inside of hip-hop, hip-hop adjacent, in black culture, whatever, that has come out and been MAGA, far from it. We've seen other people. Maul from Rory and Maul is MAGA. DJ Academics is. Who is? Rory and Maul. Both of them are? No, no, no, not Rory is it. Maul is. Mall from Rory and Maula's MAGA. DJ Academis is MAGA. We've seen a bunch of different rappers become MAGA. We were going to have Aouli and Lee from the St. Lunatics on the podcast.

Pretty soon, he's a Trump supporter. And all of these people, I learned that Ali was a Trump supporter because he said it in my comment. So obviously, you know, he was a proud Trump supporter. A lot of these people have supported Donald Trump for different reasons. Or they've espoused their support for Donald Trump, different reasons, different ways. So a lot of the hyper-focus on Amber Rose is, I think, think because people are so surprised by the support that she's shown.

I think for some of these other people, I don't think they're as surprised, but for Amber Rose, who she's been in the past, some of the stances that she's taken in the past, the fact that she's been in ways of social and political activists in the past with some of the stuff that she's done with the slow walk and the women's rights stuff that she's done and some of the the purchase that she's been on, I think people are surprised about it. And that's feeding some of the response to it. I don't think so. I think that there's always been this conversation surrounding Amber Rose

about her ethnicity, how she identifies. And the fact, and she's white presenting, right? Like, you look at her, people think, I was having a conversation with some white people the other day that had no idea that she was even black until she spoke at the R&C. So I think it's how she identifies and the conversations surrounding that,

especially because she came on the scene being so connected to black culture. And that is how we know her, her connection to other rappers, she being a rapper herself, her children, all of that. Being on black TV shows. I think that plus the way that the Republicans

are using her in ways that they're not using Black MAGA or Trump supporters. They're not using academics. They're not going to. They're not using Kodak Black. They're not using these. Amber is more accepted, at least presenting-wise, to the RNC. They're not, those people aren't speaking at the RNC.

Amber Rose is. She has a tattoo on her forehead. I know she has a tattoo on her forehead. but as Bacari said, she's very pretty at the same time. But what I'm also saying is that part of that has to do with the way Amber is she's, number one, she's arguably more famous than the other people that you've named and that includes Code at Black. Number two, she's more presentable to them because of that level of fame and because of the fact that she, she's well-spoken

in a very to a degree. She's palatable. Right, she's palatable. To them, and in a ways that these other black MAGA people aren't. Right. That's,

so I think it's not just to me that, you know, people are shocked by it. I think it's just the way that she is allowing herself to be used by this party because she can be

because of how she looks, how she presents. But what I'm saying is, I get that what the reason why she's useful to them, right? But I'm saying the reason why the outrage is so... I don't even think the outrage is that bad, do you? Yeah, it is.

The reason... And because if the outrage is that bad, then what Van Jones said has Samarit. What do you mean? I don't, I'm not outraged that Amber Rose is doing that because I don't think that she's influential enough to really attract a whole new audience for them. So I'm not upset by it.

Because I just look, it looks clownish to me. Yeah. And so if I'm not upset by it, I'm not outraged by it. I'm just like, look at Amber, another one bites the dust, making a fool of herself in front of these people. If Van Jones got on there and said very glowing things about her, said she might have a future in politics, talked about how well-spoken she was and how she was able to connect with the audience by reading a teleprompter, the audience at home, just not the people in front of her. I mean, he was singing her praises and he talked about how influential she is. and how this was devastating for the Dems because she can attract black voters. Then if what he's saying, if that has merit, then people would be outraged by her behavior because they do believe that she's in some ways influential.

For me, I think it's clown behavior. I'm not outraged because I don't think that it holds any kind of way. I think she's swaying voters anyway. Right. I think if what Van Jones, I guess my point is if what Van Jones is saying is true, then I can, can see that then that correlates with people being outraged because they're disappointed in her because of the impact that she could possibly have. I don't think she has any impact at all. I think you're making a leap. I think you're saying that people are disappointed because

of the impact that she could have and that's not why they're outraged. Why are they outraged then? Just because she broke code. They're outraged. But just just hold on. They're outraged because people are upset about this. And if whenever she posts like, you know, you follow, You see this stuff on like Shayroom comments, ball or whatever. Whenever she posts, you see it. Like Joey Reed directly addressed Amber Roe.

The reason why is because she has been, to your point, tangentials of black culture for a long time in black culture, out of black culture. She was on my podcast. She said she is black, right?

She was on a different podcast and said that she was on Rosenberg and said that she was not black. And now she's biracial. the thing between her and Jocelyn, there's been a lot of ambiguity about her racial identity and all of that stuff.

And it seems as if in the times that it was convenient for her that she was black and in the times that it was inconvenient for her or it was convenient for her to not be black, that she hasn't been black. And that's fair. I think with this,

I think a lot of people have extended a lot of grace to Amber. And a lot of people have looked at Amber in a way and try to understand where she was coming from. Because really, she's been a lot of times on the forefront of pushing some ideas inside of the culture that were unpopular at a time. Like the slut walk thing... Outside of the slut walk, what else?

That's what I'm talking about. That was her entire thing. You said ideas with the parole. Right. So the slut walk was a huge big deal. And it was something that a lot of people thought that we should take seriously, which is the way that we view women. women, their sexual independence.

A lot of that had to also do with bodily autonomy and, you know, what you can do with your body. Yeah. All of that stuff. It's great message. Right. And so people took Amber Rose seriously if only for that. I mean, she had 21 Savage out there with a sign saying, I'm a hoe, right? They took Amber Rose seriously if only for that.

She wanted to be taken seriously for that. And then after that, she went MAGA. And I think a lot of people are like, well, we use a little bit of our brainpower trying to understand MRO's and her place and like this. And now she's pulling the Kanye just kind of turning it back on us. This is what I say. I don't think she moves the needle either. I agree with you. I don't think that someone has to move the needle for people to be mad that they've gone mad.

Maybe so. Right? I think icewear and some of the other people that people were mad at that were mad at that were mad at. They were MAGA. I think Ray J. I think all of these people that people get mad at because they're MAGA, I don't think they're mad because they think they're going to make more black people go to MAGA. I think they're upset that their political choice is one that they see as being at cross purposes with black people's safety and security in the country.

I think they look at them as an enemy when they think. I guess I just don't understand it because for a while she has not been claiming to be black. So. But she's still inside of the, you know what I mean? The moment that she stopped saying that she wasn't and like really wanted people to know. And that's, and I'm not judge. She's, I'm biracial. She's like, I'm not going to ignore the fact that I have a white father.

Like, okay, great. But I'm just saying the moment she did that, she wanted it to be clear, I'm not black. This is what I am. So. So this is what I'll tell you right now. Do you know, in my opinion, it would be easier right now. It's easier right now. for Kodak Black to say that he's MAGA,

then it would be for Jack Harlow to say that he's Maga. If Jack Harlow comes out right now as MAGA, Jack Harlow's done. A lot of people are going to go, yo, you already white. Right. And we're already making space for you inside of this culture. And we're saying, oh, Jack is with drama and canon and he got the right cosines. We like the way he dress. We do all of that stuff.

Jack is cool. If you go MAGA, then it's like, this is a MAGA white boy trying to get into the middle of our stuff. Codat Black, I mean, people are going to feel a certain way, but at the end of the day, people are going to go as he's black. He's a Haitian black guy from Miami. She just knows what the fuck he's talking about, whatever, whatever people. But the cosmetic version of that, how it looks is going to be there's a MAGA white rapper trying to co-op black culture and be inside it. He has way less leeway to become MAGA than a black rapper would because a lot of black people are going to speak up for the black guy. They're not going to speak up for the white guy.

This is what I'll say about the entire thing, whether we agree or disagree on whatever is going on with Amber. I'll say this. To Amber or to anyone, anybody that is choosing this moment right now to get up with the other side. You got to stay there. Just that's, you have to stay there. Let me tell you what happened the last time the Trump movement happened.

The last time the Trump movement happened, 2016, Omarosa went with Trump. Stacey Dash went with Trump. A lot of other black celebrities, now a ton of other black celebrities, but other black celebrities, other people, they went with Trump. These people tried to boomerang. Most of them, Trump won. that election, right? Most of them, after a while, got the fucking spurs put to them. They found out just what that means to a lot of people, and they tried to boomerang and come back around. This moment is significantly more dire than that moment.

True. With what people are up against and how people are moving and the future of democracy, bodily autonomy and our way of life in jeopardy by an increasingly fascist right wing. Everyone is okay and everyone is within their rights

to vote and use their political voice in America how they want to use it. It's part of this thing. But you must stay there. there will be no quarter for you coming back. Stand on it. That's it. No two, three years down the road.

Like, I feel like I'm outside. It is. Like, these people don't want to fuck with me. It's hurt my pockets this way. These people don't want to deal with me. Like, the right has thrown me away, particularly in the case of Amber, there's just going to be a lot of people

on the right that are not going to fuck with her because of her life, how she's let it, and what she does. There are a lot of people that aren't going to fuck with and Matt Walsh called her out with her being on that stage. That's your tent. I agree.

All love. Do what you're going to do, but stay over there. Yeah. That's where you at. That's all I got to say about it. I agree. This episode,

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Order now at order. Dot sweetgreen.com. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately

to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Um, what's your take on Brony James? I mean, you know where I stand. I feel sorry for the kid.

Well, tell me why you feel, okay, this is my thing. Tell me why you feel sorry for Brony. I mean, obviously he's got drafted. He's a pro. He's like, all like the materialistic things, you know, don't make sense for me to feel sorry, Bram. He's playing basketball. He's going to be playing with his dad.

He's got a contract already. I shouldn't feel sorry for him, but I guess it's, I'm thinking internally what it possibly, and who, I don't know, I don't know, Brony. I have no idea what he's feeling. But I would just imagine it would be a lot. There's already pressure on you as a rookie to perform, to be great. And you've got the James name behind you. So there's already that pressure.

People are kind of rooting against you because they don't feel like you deserve to have the spot that you have. and his every move is being dissected, good or bad. So I just feel like, I just feel bad for him. You know, he's so young. It's like this kid doesn't even get to be a kid. His whole path is laid out for him, it feels like. And I just, you know, I'm just like, can he get a break? Can you like the Bronny watch stop?

Wait, wait, wait. You're asking if Bronny James can get a break? You don't think he's gotten a couple of breaks? No, no, no. I am of the belief that he should not have been drafted. So I'm not saying that I'm not acknowledging that he didn't get a break. I'm saying on the outside look like the outside. Yeah, like it's why would you feel sorry for LeBroni?

But also he didn't ask to be playing with his father. He didn't ask for some of this. It just comes with the territory of being LeBron James' son. And so, yeah, part of me just feels like give the kid a little space. I feel bad for him in that sense. So he had his best game of the Summer League just recently. Yeah, and they won because of it. Score 12.

Looked as if he was more confident, looked as if he was moving better. It looked like somebody talked to him and said, yo, just go out there and play basketball. Yeah. Just go out there and play basketball. Attack when you see it's time to attack. Step into your jumpers. Just go out there and play basketball.

happy that he had a great game. I do think that it's interesting that it's something that we can't talk about. I didn't say that. I didn't say that you said it. Who said we can't talk about it? There's a lot of people out there that are going, yo, do we ever talk about a 55th pick in the draft like this? I was watching over there, shout out to Josiah.

I was watching Gil's Arena and I saw Gilbert Arenas and Brandon Jennings have a real, heated conversation about this. And to me, it's like the guy's a pro now. Because you saw the Jalen Brown thing. Yes, I did. So Jalen Brown is talking to Kaiser. I didn't know her name was Kaiser. I know. I thought it was like Chris.

Yeah, Kaiser. And Angel Reese, and he looks over at Kaiser, his girlfriend, and says, I don't think Brown is a pro. He's watching on the court side. She goes, I think he's going to be on the G-League team. People are reading lips. We're not 100% sure this will say. And then he goes, no, I think he'll be on the main roster because of his name.

Jalen Brown has to come out and then address what he said about. We're talking about the 55th pick in the draft, but he wouldn't have to come out and address that unless it was Brony James. If he was just saying that about a different 55th pick, maybe it catches on on Twitter a little bit, but it's not that big of a deal. This is the problem with the Nepo babies, is that we don't know how to treat them.

We say treat them just like everybody else, right? But you can't. Why? They get a different type of scrutiny. But why? Because they're Nepo babies. Because they treat them like they're the person that they're the baby of. Well, no.

Like, no, he's getting a LeBron James treatment. You think he's getting the LeBron James treatment? Do you understand what I'm saying it in the sense of, of we don't know how to how to treat him because he's the son of LeBron James. And so they're speaking, they don't want to upset LeBron. So they talk about him. He's, we're on, what camera would have been on Jalen Brown at a rookie game like that? Paying's lip reading, if it was any other player.

They weren't, they weren't looking for Jalen Brown to say something about Brown. But I'm just saying it was like a big, he was there. He was, they were playing Boston. So he was there. He's watching the game. It's like he, they're treating. We are literally on Bronny watch. He is totally getting a treatment like he's the number one pick.

We're treating him like he's LeBron. I think that's the issue with Neppo babies. They haven't proven themselves to be like their parent, but we treat them like their parent. And that's the problem. It would be different if Brony had had, if he had averaged 15 or 20 points at USC last year. Now, I have to put everything into context.

Bronny had a element last year, had a very serious health element. So he wasn't able to have the freshman season that he wanted to have, right? But had he had a super successful freshman season, then we wouldn't be talking about whether or not he has earned a spot in the NBA. The average five points a game in his freshman year.

So he's in the NBA. He's drafted. There are other players that are undrafted. They are playing pretty well in the summer league. There are other players that are. drafted behind him. They're playing pretty, well, not too many drafted behind him

that are playing in this. I believe, but what I'm saying is that we have to be able to talk about him as far as his game is concerned like any other player. Now, whether or not we should be fixated on him, it's like whatever.

That's the NEPO. But when we do talk about him, we have to be able to talk about him in the same context that we talk about other people. Like, is he a pro? Does he have a future in the league? How long does he need to be in the G League? Does he have a future overseas?

What does it mean for your father to be able to leverage his power and influence over the league to have his team draft you? What does that mean? Is that okay? I don't understand why the give the kid a break narrative is even in the conversation. A break for what? I think they, I remember when we talked about it on the show and we were like, there seems to be a lot of riding. Dick riding. I just think people, what people, the give the break is to please the Rich Pauls, the LeBron James.

Like they don't want to be on, they want to show that they're in solidarity with them. That's why I feel like people are because we watched it happen. The day before people were like, oh, he shouldn't use his influence. and the day that he got drafted, everybody seemed to have changed their tone. It was like, good for him. This is historic. He's doing that, you know,

so I think people are just afraid to say something that's anti-Lebron. But why does it have to be anti-Lebron? That's how people look at it. I know. It's not. But it's not anti-Lebron to give an honest assessment

of how Bronny is doing. I think there's a great chance. I'll just be honest with you. Because I always wondered this. Do you know what the hardest thing about the NBA is getting to the NBA. Like getting to the NBA

is the hardest thing about the NBA. Do you know how many players around the world right now are saying if I just got a chance if I could just get somebody over there to take the shackles off my game and let me hoop for 10, 15 minutes a game, I know I can stick and stay in the league.

getting to the point where you get the chance where a coach is willing to put you out there and let you do what you do is so hard because it's so competitive. Right? If you're not a can't miss prospect, they're looking at you and they're saying, how can you help a team? And if you're not one of these guys

that are drafted super duper high, then you have to demonstrate that there is something special about you. You have to become a Pat Bev. You have to become a friend Van Fleet. You have to become a guy that shows teams that you can play at that level, that you can do something to help a team at that level, right?

It's very difficult. Now, once you're there, I think there are a lot of players that once you get to the league, if you had a coach and an organization that had confidence in you, that they could figure it out. They can figure out how to be additions to a team.

They can figure out how to come in, play good defense, spell somebody, how to move the ball, how to make, how to be a three and D, The question is, what do you have to show to an organization that made them say, okay, you normally have to show it somewhere to make them go, that guy can figure it out. With Brony, he's going to get a chance to go in there and figure it out with a long leash. So it is not inconceivable that one day he'll be a good pro. It's not.

It's not inconceivable that Brony could have an eight-year career. that one day, you could look at Brony and you could be like, oh, my, it's not inconceivable, because he gets to learn on the job. He's going to have the backing of the Lakers. He's going to have the treatment.

He's going to have the coaching. He's going to have all of that stuff. He might be able to make it happen. So I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that like, as it happens, we have to evaluate him like we evaluate anybody else. And until the recent game,

he's played fucking horribly. Like horribly. Yeah. Like in every single way. Offensively, defensively, he's played horribly. I don't understand why.

The dick ride's going to ruin the world. One day they're going to be two guys sitting on a rock. And they're going to be looking out at the cityscape of Los Angeles or Miami. It's going to be all ruins. And they're going to say, damn, we used to have an amazing civilization.

I read about it and in some of these books that's left over. It's like, for real? Like, yeah, man, things were great. We had all kinds of stuff. We had people bring you food

to your house whenever you want. We had, like, go to a place and tip somebody they dance for you. We have a great time. And he's going, what happened to it?

What ended this great civilization? The guy's going to look up in the sky. It's going to go. Dick ride. We just couldn't. You're so true. Get off a nigger's dick. We just hopped on everybody's dick,

lost all of our objectivity, lost all of our critical thinking skills, and we just went with what was popular and what the next nigger said. And we rode dick into oblivion. I'm trying to stop that. Stop dick riding. It's okay.

Stop it. Stop. I agree. Get the information. Use the information. And then look, we all been guilty of it. Some people, hey, van, van, van, van, you be the first. Stop everybody.

No did. Higher learning is a no dick riding zone. It's like stop dick riding. We will be better. We've dick road in the past here on high learning. Of course. We've dick rode in the past. We've dick rolled.

I make a promise to the audience right now. No dick riding zone. I'm sorry saying that at the top of the podcast. No, don't do it at the top of the podcast. They got it. They got it. You think? They got it.

What's your rule? What rule do you want to institute? No, that's fine. I agree. We're going to try to be, have no bias on this podcast. Why can't you say no dick riding? You don't want to say it. You said it enough.

Do you have anything that you saw in the news that you want to talk about? No, I'm frustrated over the Biden stuff. I'm very frustrated over it. I just, like, want to know. I'm a person who needs to know where they're going and what they're doing. And I don't in my personal life, so I need at least for politics. What are we doing? Where are we going?

Who are we rallying behind? What is next? That's how I feel right now. No, nothing in the news got my attention other than this. Oh. One last thing. Skip Bayliss. Oh, yeah. Was that, like, big, big news?

Wasn't big news, I mean. Which is surprising. I mean, maybe because I've just been so an R&C world, but I first learned from you, and then I feel like I haven't really seen it in a lot of places. So in the last year, I think it's been, I think the numbers are between 55 and 60 people total have been watching undisputed.

It's just not a dis. I'm just saying. Who's on it? It's Kishon Johnson, Paul Pierce. And Richard Sherman. And no, Richard Sherman's not on it anymore. What? It's Kishon Johnson, Paul Pierce, and Skip.

And I'll tell you something, bro. Bro, I'm browing you. Now you know I'm in my shit. Man, if they revamped the show with Kishon and Paul Pierce, whatever Paul Pierce is on, I'll watch that shit. And I've been fucking with Kishon. Like, they're actually fun to watch. Like, Paul Pierce is unhinged.

It's like, bro, whatever Paul Pierce is. Pierce is on. I'll watch that shit. But you ever see the clip of when Paul Pierce was doing this show with Kevin Garnett and somebody threw a lighter because he needed a lighter. No. And a lighter hit him in the face

and Paul Pierce was ready to squabble. And like Kevin Garnett was like, hey man, watch the game, bro. Get into the game, watch the game. And you can tell I like watching Paul Pierce and KG because you can tell they're real friends and KG be trying to control Paul Pierce.

I like watching Paul Pierce. Paul Pierce, Paul Pierce, keep it real. Kishon Johnson, I've always watched Kishon Johnson. It might be time to let those two brothers fly. The reality is, of the three people that are on the show, of the three people that are on the show, Skip Bayliss was the weak link of the show. Maybe he knows that. Maybe he's looking around the room and reading it. And he's like, it's time. Not the numbers. because it's 55 to 65.

But he's looking around the room and he's like, you know what, I don't need to be here anymore. And I said, it's... So upon hearing that Skid Bayless was leaving undisputed, right? Mm-hmm. ESPN released a statement

saying that they would not be hiring Skidnaz. It's not a... Dis-Scoop playlist. ESPN released a statement. And the statement was like, yo, we appreciate Skip and everything that Skip is done. But we wish him well in this future,

but we don't want to hire. They didn't say it that way. I swear to God, man. We are set with the current first-take rotation and wish Skip all the best on his future endeavors. So ESPN, a spokesman said to front-office sports because a lot of people thought that ESPN might want to reunite Skip Bayliss and Stephen A. Smith.

I don't know why they just didn't let the rumors just, you know, fly. It would have brought attention to first take. I don't know why ESPN was like, we're shutting that down before it even starts. I would think just let people think that that's going to happen. You don't think that's something that comes from Stephen A. You don't think that Stephen A, like, wants people to get out there. because at this point, Stephen A is really pulling the strings on anything having to do with first take and he's being.

Yeah, did he get that new contract yet? I think that he did. I think they're about to break Stephen A off. Stephen A. been having some... I saw Stephen A. talking about he going back and forth with Willie D. and Faison Love. Stephen A is mixing it up these days. He ain't got...

Yeah, he wants to be like a... He wants like a Jimmy Kimmel type show. He doesn't have time to be dealing with the inner workings of Skip Bayless's future, right? Stephen A is going back and forth with the people on the... He really didn't jump into this YouTube space. He got his beefs popping the whole nine.

He told them, shut that shit down. He's a star. I don't give a fuck about Skip Bayliss and coming back to the whole situation. Let me ask you this. Not this headline. First take fans begs Stephen A. Smith and Molly Kiram to return as ESPN show falls apart with that.

Hey, hold on for a second. Read that again? The headline is, First Take Fans beg Stephen A. Smith and Molly Kieram to return. as ESPN show, quote, falls apart without them. Let me tell you something. No bullshit.

No bullshit. It is unwatchable. I haven't seen them bring in any of the people that make the show good. I haven't seen Ryan Clark on there. I haven't seen Swagoo on there. I haven't seen Monica McNutt on there. I haven't seen any of the people that make the show dope. I don't think I've seen Jay Will on there.

I don't know if everybody went on vacation at the same time. No Stephen A. Smith, no Molly. No disrespect to everybody doing their thing. It's hard. Everyone needs the reps. The fucking show is unwatchable. Mad Dog was on there going back and forth with Paul Fibomb. Mad Dog said that Jalen Hertz won the Heisman.

Nobody corrected him. What? That dog's better than that. I did not hear in the clip. You guys could play the clip. I did not hear. in the clip that I watched. Maybe somebody did later on in the show. I did not hear in the clip. Mad Dog

says Lincoln Riley coached Baker Mayfield and Jalen Hertz. I only think he even mentioned Kylin Murray. He said he coached those guys at a Hizman trophy. I'm like, Jalen Hurts didn't win the fucking Hizman trophy. Unless I heard a Mad Dog wrong,

like he's had Caleb Williams Right. And then Baker Mayfield and then Kyle Murray won the Hizman. But Jalen Hurts didn't win the fucking Hizman. He did not win the Hizman at all.

And I'm like, yo, somebody's going to jump in. It's the wild wild west of it. But Steve, if you, if Steve, the best thing Stephen A. Smith could have done

to make ESPN pay him. I think he's looking for $150 million a year. But to get ESPN to pay him that money is to take a break from the show. Because that show is fucking unwatchable without him.

They do this all the time, and I'm a little, I used to fill in when Molly would be out and, like, would do these rounds in July, and they're usually gone. What Stephen A. used to do is write in, so he would have tweeted in, did I just hear Mad Dog actually say that Jalen hurts? And so, like, they would bring that tweet into the show, so it still felt like Stephen A. Smith was a part of the show, even though he wasn't sitting there in studio or on Zoom as he is these days. Yeah, I don't want to knock it too much because I used to be a part of that team and shout out to everybody who's trying to hold it down while the main team is out. But no, don't do them like that. So don't do them like. I ran the headline.

Well, when you read the headline, because I don't, I'm like, where has Stephen A been? Is Stephen A- He's always gone in July. This always happens. Always. So he's not like holding out for a contract. Well, he probably is, yes. But I, well, you know what?

I think he might be still doing his YouTube show. Is he still doing this YouTube show? Then he might be holding out. He's doing the YouTube show. Let me tell you something. So before he didn't have the YouTube, he would just be out in July. Like after, let's see. No, July, he would be out.

He would tap in a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I think Stephen A is looking for $25 million a year. He is. That's true. I say this. This is why he deserves it. And this is a no dick riding situation.

This is just me being for real. On some black man shit, I got to be all in for Stephen A getting the 25. The only reason why I say this is because they didn't broke off McAfee. They didn't broke off Joe Buck. They didn't broke off Troy Eggman. And all of those guys, in my opinion, are reaping the benefits of Stephen A. carrying the company for as long as he has. So he's got to hold out for the big money right there, get the $25 million from ESPN.

And I think that they should give it to him because he still got the number one show in the morning, too. That's what I was going to say. He does a lot of stuff. Like, he's, yeah, he's well-deserved. deserving of that 25. Don't agree with Stephen A all the time. Didn't agree with that OJ shit. A lot of people were mad at me about that.

Stephen A. I agree with him. When he gets into political world, we almost never agree. Correct. All right. But it's undeniable what he's done

and how he's held it down at ESPN. True. It's undeniable. And he knows it. Like if he left ESPN. You could go to Fox. See, if he went to Fox, they give him 50 million a year.

Fox pays. Fox pays. Fox pays you put you on there for people watching. Like, if you leave, I'll tell you what, the best show on Fox right now is by far speak. Speak is the best show on Fox by far. It's by far the best show on Fox. Actually, they should give speak undisputed spot because people actually care about like what happens on speak. But if they're going to move forward undisputed, man, give me Paul Pier.

and Kishon with a third person in there. Just give Paul Pierce his own shit. It's a lot for Fox Sports. I'm just, bro, give Paul Pierce. It could be Paul Pierce Amigos. When he said the N-word. Bro. And, like, he's so unhished.

Bro, they did. When Paul Pierce was on ESPN, when Paul- They let him go because of the strippers, right? Because of the strippers, yeah. When Paul Pierce was on ESPN, they had a segment called the Dirty Nasty Truth

because his nickname was the truth and they was asking Paul Pierce whether or not he thought he thought he was better than Dwayne Way. And Paul Pierce had a fantastic career finals MVP or whatever. D-Way just did more.

You know what I mean? D-Way got more rings. Paul Pierce was, D-Way just did more. Sure. In that pecking order, you could argue that with a different

set of career, circumstances that Paul Pierce could have done the same things that D-Wa did. You could, but D-Way did more. D-Way, like, took a finals over by himself. You know, you know what I mean? Even though Shaq was on the team, it was all about D-Way in that situation. D-Way just did more. I mean, Paul Pierce won finals MVP, too, but I feel like D-Way did more.

And Paul Pierce, I was never feared. Paul Pierce was like, between me and D-Wade, man? Look, I'm going to say me. and just every single time I would watch him. He said he was a better shooter than Clay Thompson. I fuck would watch. That's what you watch content for. He's entertaining.

You can't knock it. You cannot knock the man. He said he feels like he's one of the big reasons that LeBron got to how good he is. I love it. I love it. But Skip had to go, though. Skip was in there bitch like this. What happened to Skip neck?

It's time to go. What is it? What happened to Skip? I don't like talking about no neck people. Skip. Skip. Skip me on undisputed like this. Like, he's older.

He's in a 70. Do you lose your neck when you get older? Well, I think there's a little bit maybe like a, you know, like, you know how people get shorter? But you can see his neck on his podcast. I want to go home. But skip in good shape. Skipping good shape. On the podcast, you can clearly see his neck.

But on first take, on not first take, on undisputed, skip me like this with, anyway, we got to go. they know what I'm talking about They kept off Like Googling in the Mac But do not He'd be sitting up there And he's like He might be wearing shoulder pads

In his suits And that might be the difference Between him there And on the podcast There might be some shoulder pads Skip is in great shape For 72 I'm just saying

Skip Bayless Neck Yeah he just It's just the neck be gone I don't know what happened Um Hold on. Wait, wait, wait.

This is a Reddit post. Hold on real quick. Skip Bayless looks ridiculous. Okay, this is just me now. We got to go. Shout out to Skip. Skip made a lot of money. Do you think what Skipp and Stephen A. did was good for sports talk?

Oh, of course. You think so? It's that a standard. You think it's better now than it was before we got crazy about the debate shows? What's better? Do you think the quality of talk that we get on sports? Sports talk shows on sports shows is better or worse since first take came around. On TV?

On TV, yeah. Well, because, I mean, there's a lot of sports talk on radio, is my point. I mean, I'm talking about sports shows on TV. Do you feel like they're better or worse post first take? I don't really remember before first take. I see what you mean. I'm younger, so I'm... God damn.

You know what, let's go. That's the second time Nicky than done that to me this week. Not me. No, no, but like, shout out Trey Murphy. I did, I was, shout out Trey Murphy from the Pelicans.

Great kid. We did a, we did a show, me, Tommy, Ryan Ristillo, Trey Murphy, and Duncan Robinson did a show in Vegas

while I was out in Vegas. Trey Murphy, good dude, man. Love hanging around Trey. I'm so interested in this career. Great kid. kid. Trey goes, I'm like, you know, I'm 44 and Trey went, shit. Tried of getting played by y'all.

How old is Trey? 23. Okay, so, like, think about 44. Is it a big age to him? Trey Murphy is, he's 24 years old, born in 2000. Yeah, I was already in college in a little. All right. I'm actually old enough to be his father.

Easily. It's crazy. It's nuts. Take the details off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathan Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye.