Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Sinking of the Titanic Sub, AI, and “God Save the Queen”

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss the details on and public reaction to the missing Titan submersible (12:24) and the numerous bills that Governor Greg Abbott signed that affects trans, DEI, and labor rights (35:21). Then they talk about the fears surrounding AI with Nilay Patel, editor-in-chief of The Verge (54:46) before talking about Bill Simmons’s thoughts on Prince Harry and Meghan (1:36:32). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Nilay Patel Producers: Ashleigh Smith and Aleya Zenieris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandual prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply.

See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, gusalcumab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy,

and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information.

What is that? How Learning is on is I Van Lakey Jr. It's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Jesus Christ. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, are you sick? I'm going straight to urgent care after this podcast. I'm not even kidding.

Yeah, like, I cannot shake this cough. Like, it just keeps getting worse and worse. So it's not working. For you, when you hear the song title, shake it off, do you think of Taylor Swift? He hasn't have a song called Shake It Off. Oh, I'm...

So I don't know why you would be thinking of him. So when you hear the song, when you hear Shake It Off, do you think of Taylor Swift or Mariah Carey? I'm on Promethezine. You're on that, Prometheus. Don't your hands high. Wait.

From side to side. I think of Taylor Swift. You think of Taylor Swift? Yeah, that one pops in my head first. Wow. And I'm not even a Swifty, but that one pops up in my head first. Or mystical.

Shake your ass. What? We can't talk about mystical, though. He's bad. I know, I know. That's just what they popped in my head. There's a lot of crazy news out there, Rach. Rach, are you fucking gone Gaga off cough syrup right now?

No, no. I gave everything we had. I had in the interview we just did. I gave everything. We just did an interview with Nilai Patel from the Dakota podcast, The Verge cast, tech editor at the verge. We talked about AI. It was fantastic.

Eli is one of the best interviews we've ever had here on higher learning. You guys should listen to him about AI. He, I guess I was at a 10 as far as my fear of AI. I guess I'm down to like a 6 now. I feel like it's a 6. It's coming. And I think that was a conclusion. So I don't know if I've gone from a 10 to a 6,

but I guess I know like I'm not going to wait. up tomorrow and robots are going to have destroyed the earth. But yeah, he was great. Let's just say, I think, you know what? He said something, and of course you guys, you know, listening to him, he said something though, where he was like, why now? Like this has been, AI has been something

that has been ramping up for a while. He's like, you know, kind of like a rhetorical question asks, like, why now? And the answer for me is, I feel like it's moving fast as of late. It might have been going, you know, and, you know, like people have been working on it, but we weren't talking about it,

not the masses, at least. We weren't seeing it. Now I feel like we're seeing it at a really fast pace. And so you can't even try to run away from it or pretend like it's not there. It's so in your face now. And I think that's why there's also this fear,

this, like, that's currently among us with robots. I just... Rachel, me... Me and you went to a Juneteenth party this past Monday. Yeah, we did. A June team party. Shout out to Lawrence Bender. Trayvon three, Nick May.

Lawrence, we had a Juneteenth party at his house. It was beautiful. It was a good time. It was eclectic. It was a diverse Juneteenth party. We were not the diversity. Yeah, we had some white people at the Juneteen function. Some majority.

It wasn't majority. That's not true. Van, when I got there, it was majority. Now, that should tell you something. I came almost three hours late. They got, it wasn't majority, okay? Because by the time, you looked around and, you know, we was representing.

But the white people did get there first. But it was cool. You know, here's the thing. Everybody should celebrate Juneteenth. And that's what Lawrence said when he gave his address then I gave my address. And then everyone should celebrate Juneteenth. Dutinth to be a time for everybody to celebrate.

You know what I mean? If there's anything that this country should be in lockstep and celebrating, of course, it's the end of slavery, you know. Not that slavery signaled the end of the issues that black people have with this country. But that, you know, that's something that we should all be able to celebrate. Sure. Sure. You're right.

Everybody should celebrate. everybody should respect the day and what it represents. I had a very, very good time. It was interesting. It was interesting at times as well. But, you know, it was just different for me because I'm from Texas.

And so, like, we grew up going to Juneteen stuff. And I never knew a party to look like that before. But it doesn't mean that I didn't have a great time. And I met new people. And, you know, like, we were all as one. We are one I figured that that the party

that you would be more comfortable that it was you know Oh and why Am I more comfortable in white spaces than black A hooked down up With DJ screw

Every time I get caught In a weird position with you I was just gonna sing that big mold That purple stuff I'm not from Houston though I know but I'm not talking about Sing me a Dallas song See me a Dallas song

I see you some Can you sing a Dallas song? Yep, yep. Clean on the inside, clean it on the outside. Clean on the inside. Clean on the outside. Ice cream. Ice cream.

Ice cream. Packed down. Got saved by the bell, got a house by the Bayside. You know what I mean? I love that shit. That nigger said, that nigger Doro is one of the,

Doreau, excuse me, is one of the hardest. That nigga said, that nigga said, check out with that nigga said, that nigga said, watching save by the bell, got a house by the, Base sign on you dumbass rap niggas.

Y'all even know, y'all didn't even connect. You see what I'm saying? Ice cream paint job. Y'all didn't even connect. That nigger said, watching Save by the Bell, got a house by the Bayside. Y'all niggas on that rap and just wrapping it up. That nigga connected because they was on,

if y'all didn't know, saved by the bell, school is base on high, except for that one season where everybody was in Indiana and they didn't even give an explanation as to how all the same kids that was going to school with Indiana was now in California. Oh, you didn't know this? What? Okay. So television history.

Saved by the veil, the television show actually started off as a show with Haley Mills called Good Morning. Miss Bliss. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was set in Indiana. I didn't realize they were the same show. I thought, I knew that there was a show before, or I thought there was a whole show before.

I thought it was like a show. And then, like, saved by the bell was a spinoff from that. That's what I thought. Nah, it was, and then they took it, and they made it saved by the bell, and then all of a sudden they're in California. But we don't care about that. Doral didn't care about that.

Clearing on the inside. Cream on the outside. Green on the inside. Cream on the outside. Ice cream. Ice cream. Ice cream. Ice cream.

Yeah. All right. Um, shout out to Dallas. Shout out to, uh, Oak Cliff. You know, shout out to everybody in Dallas making music and being hot in the middle of the night.

I got to Dallas. You never got to let that go. I got to Dallas. 4 o'clock in the morning. It's 93 degrees. I'm sorry, bro. Like,

I'm like, I'm from Louisiana. It gets hot. We take a break. It gets humid. It gets humid. I get to Dallas. It's worse there.

4 o'clock in the morning. It's 93 degrees, bro. I never forget that in life. I was literally pissed because I'm all groggy or whatever. I get off the plane. I'm like, yo, man, what the fuck is going on, bro? 90 degrees. That's how I feel when I go to the bottom of, like when I go to Louisiana.

That's exactly how it feels in southern Louisiana. Stop. It's superhuman. I have sweat my wig off one time and that was in New Orleans. at essence last year. You sweat your wig off. It came off the top of your head. My friend, my friend Wayne had one job.

I said, let me know if my wig starts sliding. He said, I got you. He was too busy and they're flirting. I felt a little bit more loose. I said, Wayne, is something wrong? No, you're fine. I get in the car. My wig has slid off my head.

The glue came off? The glue came off. It melted. It sweated off. I sweat off my wig. That's how hot it was. so don't talk to me about Dallas. Couldn't you staple your wig to your head?

Sure, man. Absolutely. I don't know why I didn't think of that. That would be so funny to watch you, if you got one of those, one of those staple goes, you should be able to staple it. You could staple it to your head.

I think you should staple it. Yeah, I'm sure I could. Put some staples in that motherfucker. It's not going to go nowhere. That's not going to go nowhere, especially after the scabs, the scabs here. but I might go somewhere.

What's you got going on this weekend? Seems like I need to be in the bed. Yeah. That's exactly where it seems like I need to be. No, I'm doing like, not much. I'm doing a telethon for Project Angel Food, charity that I work with here in L.A. They do a live one every year.

It's the first year I'm not out of town. I'm able to participate, answering phones, people to donate. It's a great thing that they're They do. It'll be on KTLA, Saturday evening, if you're in the LA area. And then Sunday I'm going to see Tina Turner, the musical at the Pantages. Shout out to you.

Every time you say that Project Angel Food, which is a great cause, and they could be wanting some sponge cake, man. Like, you know, maybe they shouldn't have named it that because now I'm thinking about cake. You know what I'm saying? You know, it's racial. with angel food cake is racial because, you know, angel food cake is white,

devil food cake is black. It's racialisms. You know, when you were, when you were a kid, is that the first time you noticed it when you were like, there was angel food cake

and it was devil food cake and then you were drawn to the angel. We've talked about this before. And no, I wasn't drawn. We're on a roll, aren't we? Try to take advantage of me

because I'm a little high. Throw your hands high. way from side to side y'all don't be listening to that Houston shit like me man I get into that do you really listen to it like that hell yeah bro I'll be on that Houston shit

they like our cousins man wait wait wait wait wait just gonna just say why you're talking about that rest of peace to big pokey if you're talking about Houston rappers we have to talk about the fact that big pokey passed away recently Houston

legend legend legend. That's a piece of it. All right, let's get started on the podcast. On the other side is we're going to talk about the issues happening up there in the North Atlantic. You've heard about it. You've seen it. The worst has been confirmed on the other side of this break.

This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want to watch. then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer.

You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcumab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis.

Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections in tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have your doctor. have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information.

Okay, so I'm sure now that everybody listening to this podcast is aware that the missing Titanic submersible are believed to be dead. it looks like there was a catastrophic implosion is what they're saying. It's been updated by the minute that caused the Titan submersible that was run by the Ocean Gate Company to malfunction, implode, and it looks like all of the five people

that were on board this lost their lives. Hamish Harding Shazada Dawood and his teenage son Sumin, French explorer Paul Henri Nargoulet and Stockton Rush, who was of course the CEO of Ocean Gate were all aboard the submersible. They look to be gone now. I'm sorry if I messed up any of those names,

all respect to the people that were on that. Here's the thing. There's been a lot talked about as it relates to this. entire ordain. Okay. I'm sure you guys know now. This is a thrill-seeking, incredibly expensive voyage, or should I say an incredibly expensive voyage

that has taken on by thrill-seekers, $250,000 to ride this submersible down to the depths of the ocean and look at the wreckage of the Titanic. There are extensive waivers that you have to sign, before you get on this thing, as it was chronicled by a CBS News Magazine show last year, where the news reporter showed Titan,

talked about the submersible itself, and then discussed the technology, or should I say lack thereof, that exists on Titan. Coast Guard looked for these people for a while. They went missing some hours after the submersible hit the water, and now we know that they are gone. There's a thing here. A couple of things.

One is that five people are dead. And I'm aware of all of the other narratives that surround us. There is a capitalism narrative. There is a class narrative. There is a, how fucking stupid are you narrative? There is a, unbelievable and breathtaking amount of negligence, in my opinion, on behalf of Ocean Gate here.

All of these things are worth talking about. Most people on the internet I see are making jokes about them. My karma, as Charles Holmes said, doesn't allow me to make jokes about five people who died on a sub, no matter what they were doing. But the first thing I would like to get across on the podcast. Five people died, including a 19-year-old kid. And I don't think there's very much that's funny about it.

I think it's reckless, needless, and in a lot of ways, outrageous, the more that you learn about the submersible. Rachel, I've been following this story. What do you think? Question. when you say outrageous, are you referring to what people are talking about on the internet or what you've learned about Ocean Gate and the five years prior with lawsuits and experts in the field talking negatively about Ocean Gate and some of their practices in regards to the Titan and the exploration of the Titanic wreckage? So James Cameron has gone to the deepest part of the ocean.

Do you know who James Cameron is? God damn it, Rachel. What's going on with this coughing? I haven't muted. Okay. I've been coughing so much now that my throat is irritated. So it's like every time I talk, it's worse. Okay.

So James Cameron has gone to the deepest part of the ocean. James Cameron has gone to a place called the Marina Trench. Okay. It's at the bottom of Challenger Deep. Challenger Deep is the deepest known point of the seabed of Earth, with the depth of around 35,000 feet, nearly 36,000 feet. It's the southern end of the Marina Trench,

near the marina, excuse me, the Mariana trench, should I say, near the Mariana Islands. All right, James Cameron went down there. He went down there on a craft, a vessel called the deep sea challenger, a deep dive and submersion.

He went down here, all the way down to the bottom of the ocean. If you compare the technology on this deep sea challenger vessel that was created, to James Cameron, a Hollywood director, could go down to the deepest part of the ocean to what was on

the Titan submersible. It's a fucking joke. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's, when I tell you, it's a fucking joke, the redundancy of the systems that exist on something that was responsibly built

to do something that, to me, is still crazy, right? It's still nuts in terms of, how it gets back to the surface in terms of the ability to pilot the thing, in terms of the fail safes that it has in case it loses contact with the surface, the connection between the deep seat challenger and the surface, the LED lights that start to flash on this thing, that enables someone else to find it in case it gets lost or loses power.

The four or five backup systems that it has, has in order to get back up to the top. The four or five backup systems that it has in order to alert someone about where it is, the backup systems it has for communication, the piloting rate that it has, all of this type of stuff, right? The thing has so much equipment that there's only one person that can fit inside of it, and that's the pilot of it. It's got like a 45-inch cockpit or something like that.

Like only the pilot can fit inside of the thing. In terms of Titan, the Ocean Gatecraft, five people can sit inside of it, can fit inside of it, because there's really nothing going on there. There's almost zero redundancy in its systems. They were hell marrying from the get-go and parading it as science.

I read a Twitter thread by a lady that was very knowledgeable about this stuff that said it is a miracle that this hadn't happened before. These people went to the bottom of the ocean and they didn't make it to the bottom of the ocean. They went to ocean and they blew up because this thing was woefully inadequate to perform what it was trying to do.

I'm not saying it hadn't been down there before because it had been, but it was just a matter of time before something like this happened. Very sad. Right. And I think that that's what, you know, like the deeper you were diving into this. Because obviously you heard about it.

You saw all the jokes that were being made. But there was a lot of coverage on it as there was the countdown to how many hours of oxygen there were left in the tank. But when you really got into the nitty gritty, it's like, okay, in 2018, leaders in the submersal craft industry, they called it like the Ocean Gate was calling this experimental from the beginning. They were calling this an experimental approach. But more than three dozens of those leaders signed a letter to the company.

And New York Times, like, wrote a whole article about this where they warned of the possibility of catastrophic problems based on the way that they developed this submers. What do you call this submersible? Submersible. Summersible. Submersible. So, like, I think my question was, because I know somebody else was talking about what the paperwork looked like and there were, you know, you were pretty much signing your life away on the first page because of all the risk that we're associated with going down there.

But did the people who were on that know about the guy, you hit his name, David Lockridge, who was the director of Marine Operations for. for Ocean Gate, who started working on this, and then ultimately was so concerned about the way that it was developed, that he was bringing these to the attention of the founder of Ocean Gate, and they fired him, and he sued. So he, this is the person who's directing all of this,

who tried to warn, you know, the creators of Ocean Gate of what the, what the possibilities were and the risk were going down there. And they ended up fired, him. So there also seemed to be a cover-up by Ocean Gates founder who now is, you know, one of the five that was lost at sea, Stockton Rush. But there just seemed to be so much surrounding this that it's almost shocking to me that the people who did embark on this exploration didn't know about all of this, not just the risk for going down there, but specifically those associated with

Ocean Gate compared to the other submersives that could take you down there? First of all, I mean, look, okay. So there's a cultural component to this that I don't understand. Okay. And the cultural component to this is like, like, you know, nigger not trying to go see the Titanic, man. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like, nigger, nigger not trying to do that, you know? It's like, I see people do shit all the time.

They hang glide and they do all of that. And I'm like, that's dope. You know, I once saw this video of this hang glider and he was petting a bird. The bird had perched on his hang glide. And he was petting a bird as they were hang gliding. And I thought, that's raw. That's dope.

They flying together. The bird is on the hang glider. You know what I'm saying? But there wasn't one fucking cell in my body that was like, I got to learn how to hang glide. So I, too, compared a bird. I didn't feel that way. I felt like I would be looked at as dumbass

because I would be the one nigger who went out there hang gliding, and it would be a screw loose in the hang glide or a hole in that bitch and all of a sudden it's dumb. I'm not judging anybody's lifestyle. People want to explore shit and they want to do stuff and I get it. But to essentially get on a nigger rigged super soaker tube

and go to the bottom of the ocean with some, in my opinion, criminally insane white boy. Like, if you guys do the base bit of research on it, it is wild. And when you watch the CBS report, there is a braggadocious nature that came along with this guy explaining,

like, how low-tech, dissubmersible was that I'm sorry lends itself to the type of hubris that rich white men can almost only have. Which is why I think you do see so many people making light of it because I think it's hard for a lot of people to find sympathy for what was done. I'm not saying, I'm not taking away the fact that, like, I just feel like this is worth a discussion. Obviously, people lost their lives. Families lost, you know, a brother, a child, a significant other. I get all that and I'm not taken away from that, but I think to speak to the

cultural component of it, I think it's hard for people either to understand or sympathize with what's going on, what happened, because it does seem so outrageous that you would want to go 13,000 feet below the surface to go see something that's been, that we've seen so many pictures of. Movies have been based off of. I also don't understand the fascination of the Titanic. Like, not saying I haven't watched the movie, not saying I haven't been to a museum regarding the Titanic for his,

you know, history purposes. But I don't understand. No, I don't understand it. It's history, right? So it's like not the only thing that I've ever gone to a museum to look at in regards to history. It's something major that happened in our history. But I don't understand the fascination to continue to now let me go down and see it when you don't even know if you're going to see it. You don't know like it's the risk that's associated with it. And I think

that is the disconnect to why people don't have sympathy for billionaires who went down there and signed away their life to do so. Look, I'm not like, I feel bad for people losing their lives, but I also don't feel a lot. You don't. I'm sorry. You don't care. It's not that I don't care. It's not that I don't care people lost their lives, but I'm kind of like,

this niggis. I'm just going to be, I'm sorry, we keep it real on this podcast. I'm going to be very, I'm not, I'm not judging at all. I'm serious. It was a death ticket. And as you pointed out, if I, if I am going to take that risk, like, I've done risky things. I've never jumped out of an airplane.

I've never gone hang gliding. That's a little bit of, like, I'm too scared to do that. Go to Fuel City at night. Hey. But I have like jumped off of something, like not bungee jumping, but almost close to it. So I've done things where it's like, okay, Rachel, like that was, you know, a little risky. If I'm going to do something like this and pay this much money, I'm going to be well researched about what I'm trusting my life with.

And it doesn't seem like this was done. And it almost is like when you're a kid and you just feel like you can live forever. You feel like nothing can happen to you and you're invincible. It almost seems like that's how people get when they reach a certain level of wealth. Like I can buy my way out of anything. My money will save me. And I almost feel that with the way that these people just sign their life away to go down in this reckless, submersive.

Well, at least one of them knew. Hardee had been down there before, Hamish Hardy. He had traveled with U.S. Explorer Victor Escobo, more than two and a half miles along the floor of the Marina Trench, which is deeper than where the Titanic is. He had said the only problem is that there's no other sub that's capable of going down there to rescue. having four days of supply doesn't really make a difference.

If something goes wrong, you are not coming back. So at least one person was aware of the risks. I'm sure they all were. Two. I'm sure they all were. Stockton rush. Yeah. Wild story.

Wild story. It does make me wonder about our collective response to think. and this is what I mean by that. Human beings know their fate. They know where everything ends for us. Now, we can debate what our fate is after that, but we know what happens. Every single face becomes a skeleton, right?

We know that. I think that it's part of our respect and understanding for life to criticize or be critical with people who don't show that. And it's also another thing that we do to cope with the fact that it's going to happen to us at some point one day. Give me an example of this. This is a kind of a different example. A friend of mine got killed.

And when they found him, I think I might talk about this before, he was. in an area of Baton Rouge that is not an area that you should be in at 2.30 in the morning. Or it's a dangerous area to be in. People are there every night, but it's a dangerous area to be in at 2.30 in the morning. They found him he was already dead. His car was still right. I remember telling a friend of mine or a guy that I knew at my job that he was dead and they had found him on this particular

street at this particular time. And before even going, God damn, we're going to miss him. He goes, damn, what he was doing down there? And I remember I thought that that being his response to that meant he was trying to make sense of why this happened. And sometimes the reason why we do that is because we're telling ourselves, well, that's not going to happen to me. See, I wouldn't be on the submersible. I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be on this particular time. I'm cool.

That's not going to happen that way. Oh, well, why was this person running in the street? Why was this person drinking? Why were you down here? Why were you doing that? You tell yourself that to reaffirm to yourself that you're going to live. And I think a lot of the jokes that people are getting off in this situation is making fun of people that they don't feel like show the proper respect for life. But it's also to me like it's it makes them feel more alive to know.

that they wouldn't have died in that way. You think so? I do. I understand it from the example that you gave. I just think most people wouldn't put themselves in this situation. So I don't know if I get that from particularly this specific example. I mean this specific, what incident that happened. I don't know.

I'm not one to make jokes about it because I don't think it's funny. but I'd be lying and I guess I'm speaking to the people who I do think there's a lot of people who feel like me and maybe might be too afraid to say it. It's hard for me to have a whole lot of sympathy about it. I feel sorry for the loved ones

for people who lost their loved ones. But it's hard. I mean, do you think, I think the fascination from the media's perspective over this too is that who was inside? They're rich. Yeah. Like, so I think

That plays into my thinking as well. Would you have cared if they weren't rich? Man, if it was the boys choir of Harlem that was on a submersible. So it's just like- Checking in right now, four niggers drowned. It's a very unfortunate. Goodbye. That's what it would be.

Yeah. So I'm not going to act like, I'm not going to act like, you know, I'm really torn up over the situation. I'm sorry, I'm just not. but my heart goes out to the people who lost someone. And I don't think it's funny. I don't think it's funny. I'm not going to make any jokes.

That's the most racial Lindsay thing ever. Like, my heart goes out to you, but I don't really fucking care. It's not that. That's so funny. Whatever, we move on. So until we know more, I mean, I think that in a lot of ways, the story is just beginning, despite the amount of waivers that were signed. Oh, yeah.

They go sue. Oh my gosh. They probably don't even have any money as a company anyway because there are people who are already suing them because they didn't, couldn't get on the mission because it had been delayed. There's a couple that's suing them for like $125,000 because they never got to get on it.

And instead of giving them their money back, they were like, well, wait until this year. Let's wait until next year. We're dealing with some difficulties. They must be feeling like a million fucking bucks right now. Crazy. All right. Texas, we need a prompt for Texas

and everything that goes wrong in the streets of Texas. The Death Star bill has been signed of the bills vetoed in Texas. Governor Greg Abbottled more than 70 bills this past week, most of which originated in the Senate. And fuel this feud with the lieutenant governor there. But here are some of the bills that he signed in Texas, aka Germany

1941 Transgender athlete ban on Thursday Governor Abbott signed a new law banning transgender women from competing in college sports adding to the existing law

that requires high school athletes to participate in sports teams that match the sex they were assigned at birth Senate Bill 15 which is also called the Save Women Sports Act refers to transgender women in men and says that a student's biological sex, is the biological sex correctly stated on the

student's birth certificate or any other document that accurately states their sex? Okay. Two, diversity, equity, and inclusion ban. On Wednesday, the governor signed the bill that bans, offices, and programs that promote diversity, equity, and inclusion at public universities and colleges beginning in January. in January 2024 or they will lose state money.

It also calls the end of any majors or minors related to the dreaded critical race theory. All right. That's Texas. Going backwards

in Texas is what we do. Going backwards in Texas. This shit ain't new. Okay. You know what? You laugh at Texas, but Louisiana's right behind. They're back there taking notes. Oh, okay, is that how Texas did it? Okay, great. We're going to do the exact same thing. But this, I mean, listen, we talked about this a couple of podcasts ago where we talked about what Texas was doing.

They were going to implement a bill where if cities or localities, I should say, if they passed laws that contradicted state laws, then the state law was going to, going to supersede the local regulations. And they're doing this so they can control the state, make the state do whatever they want to under their conservative reign. And it's just wild because this is what Republicans complain about for the federal government to stay out of their business, right? But here we are when they have the power. They're doing the exact same thing to cities, towns, localities, all the same. It's just going to get worse. I vote for Justin Moore. Vote for Justin Moore.

Have we had enough conversation here about the transgender sports issue? No. We really haven't gotten into it at all. Is it worth even talking? Is it worth even discussing? And let me tell you, let me tell you why I asked the question is it worth discussing. The reason why I ask the question is it worth discussing? is because it's no longer an issue that's being discussed in good faith.

It's being used as a political volleyball to disenfranchise a whole group of people. Like, no one's really talking about the science and no one's really talking about what's fair or isn't fair. It's difficult to have a conversation around it that's actually about, um, comprehensive. and all that stuff, because the only reason why it's being brought up is to beat on trans people. So it almost seems like while there is some intellectual, I guess it's, there's some intellectual debate to be done about it, that it can't be done in good faith. And it's a political bargaining chip more than it is anything that has to do with way of life or sport or competition or women's sports. Because you have people like Martina Navratilova who was a darling of the left for a long time and an activist who is, I guess, now gone turf in her criticism of, you know, competition involving trans people. And you have women that are coming out and expressing what they feel like is their disappointment, some women, for at, should I say, their womanhood being co-opted by what they view as guys.

And as far as I'm concerned, they're wrong. but there's a conversation that could be had about trans people, about America, about all kinds of issues that are kind of in that bubble, but we can't have them because having them seems to empower people who don't want trans people to exist. Right. which, because like you said, they've hijacked the issue. But because it is an issue that affects,

that can has the potential to affect so many people and people have strong opinions about it, I think something you touched on about the science of it, because when we talked about it, we touched on it before when we were talking about the young lady who's a swimmer, we talked about bringing somebody on who could speak to the science of it.

I wouldn't want to have the conversation without having that, because I think there's a lot of us who don't understand. You might feel a certain way about it, but do you understand what's happening? And I think it's necessary because as we support transgender rights, you will continue to see more transgender athletes.

And this will affect people as their kids as they're playing sports, whichever side of it you're on. And I do think it's worth having a conversation about it for understanding, if nothing else. But a lot of people, and I don't think it's just that people look at it as a man. They don't look at a transgender woman as a man.

They're more so looking at it as a competitive advantage. And that's why you need somebody to specifically speak to. Well, competitive advantage because they view it as a man. And because they feel like you went through puberty as a male. And that gives you a competitive advantage. I don't think it's that black and white. I don't think it's that like black and white. Like, oh, I view you as this and that's why.

That's why it's like, I don't even want to, I want to have. the conversation, but someone who can truly can speak to what happens when you transition and does that give you a competitive advantage? And if not, tell us why. And like, let's just, you know, I haven't even done the full research on it. So I don't even know if that's out there and just haven't seen it. But I definitely, it's definitely out there. But what I'm saying is that like literally you could point to statistics that prove that it gives

you no competitive advantage. and if one motherfucker in Tallahassee wins a race, they're going to be like, look, told you. So it almost doesn't make sense to really have the conversation because it only leads to people getting fucked over. And I don't really care about sports that much

to contribute to somebody being a second-class citizen. You know what I mean? It's interesting. Whatever. We'll see what happens. Reginald, is there any way to say Texas? Texas is gone. the only way to save Texas is to cut it from the top

that's Greg Abbott. I don't know if you can say that, bro. I'll just be real with you, Rach. You swung the sword and said, cut it at the top. I don't know if you can say that about a... I can say it. You just got to get rid of him.

And say you got to kill him. You just got to remove him. Because you're making reference that I'm trying to say kill him. You said you got to remove him. thing, yeah, I don't know, man. You got to remove him, all right? It's almost, it's like

he has free reign to do whatever he wants. Anything, any law he's trying to get past, everything he's doing he wants to do, he's getting to do. It is Greg Abbott's country. That's what Texas has become. The only way to save it

is to put somebody in place who is an anti, who's anti-abotism. That's what I'm going to call it. Joe Biden was speaking. He spoke at the Gun Reform Summit in Hartford, Connecticut.

He talked about guns. He talked about in places that you can get an AR-15. He delivered a really passionate speech while taking further steps to protect communities and he thinks that the movement has reached the tipping point. Why don't we play the first clip about Joe Biden talking about the AR-15s?

Who needs to register as a federal licensed gun dealer? Because a federally licensed gun dealer is required by law to run background checks on those he's selling a weapon to. And in most cities are down in Philadelphia and New York, as I know well, like up here, you'd see a truck pull up, pull to the curb, and selling weapons, selling weapons, selling guns, selling AR-15, selling weapons.

Well, guess what? You do that now, you go to jail. He also ended one of his remarks in a very interesting way. He was closing the speech. This is what Joe Biden had to say. And if you can see the camera, they can see you. And it's the least consequential part of this whole meeting for you, I promise. All right.

God save the queen, man. Listen. Joe's had a rough week. Shills had a rough week. He has. He has, man. So, this is my question, right? So I don't know very many places, you know,

trucks pull up and they got A-R-15s in them in the God's same. So wait, but this is my question. This is my question. Once again, because it's like it is, it is some of the best moments of comedy in the 2000s were George W. Bush, right? I don't know if people remember stuff from Texas. I don't know if people

remember you know, fool me once, fool me twice. Fool me, you can't get fooled again. Of course they do. Of course they remember. Man's crying.

Man's crying. But wait, Ashley, can you find the clip and just play it for us? Just play it for us. Because it's his laughter. He knows he messed up. He knows he's about to mess it up. And then it's wrong. And he just tried to keep going with it.

Ashley, find the clip. Is that it was strategy. It's just like, you know what I say? Fool me once, fool me twice, fool. You can't get fooled again. What there's a shoe thrown at him? There's an old saying in Tennessee. I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says,

fool me once. Shame on you. It fooled me. We can't get fooled again. Now look, so here's the question, right? So here's the question. Here's the question. You know, President Biden is really, guys,

I know that you're being led. down the primrose path, but the administration is starting to pick up some thing. Are they doing things that I wanted them to do? Have they been strong enough for me on the black issues that made me vote for Joe Biden? No. They haven't.

They haven't. And that's a huge thing. And I'll continue to talk about that until some of those things happen, right? but the economy is picking up. There are other initiatives that Biden, the Biden-Harris administration has put forth that are working. And I think you're going to see an even stronger list of accomplishments

by the time the election comes. Having said all that, is it okay just to laugh at the fact that Joe be fucking up? Like, people, it's like, you know what I'm saying? you know, God save the queen. I don't know why you would say that. You know what I'm saying? It's like I don't.

The question here is, are you doing the work? Are we to the point to where we are so frightened of how crazy the right has become? And we're in such a deep culture war that we can't even laugh when the president fucks up again

or falls over sandbags. Of course, because they'll take this and they'll say, see, Joe's too old. Joe's not okay. Like, yes, we should be able to laugh at this. It's hilarious. I didn't see the gods saying quickly. It's funny. But they will take it and they'll run with it and they'll add it, you know, put it in their arsenal and fired away as why Joe shouldn't be there.

But that's okay. For everyone Joe gives us. Trump gives us 15. Yeah, but people react to Trump's gaffes in a different way than they react to Joe Biden's gaffes. They don't judge gaffes in the same way. When Trump says vagina or when he does some, see, every time you like, you know what I'm saying?

She had a cat or a dog named vagina. You like that. You like that. It's the way you're saying it that's making me laugh. That's how you said it. When Trump has a gap or with Trump, Trump has gaffes and lies. It's looked at as, oh, Donald Trump is an idiot or whatever, George Bush.

But when it happens to President Biden, people look at it as this guy fucking doesn't know where he's at. Like, this guy can't be the president. He doesn't fucking know where he's at. And I think that, you know, we're starting to see people talk about shit. That's weird. RFK Jr. was a fucking cook. which, by the way, we should have Dr. Hotes back on here to talk about the back and forth between Joe Rogan

and RFK Jr. And let me say this, and let me be very clear. I am employed here at Spotify. I work at Spotify. This podcast is on Spotify. That does not mean that I have any problem saying that Spotify is given a huge bag to an end. anti-science

Kook podcast host that I believe is doing incredible damage to the fabric of American scientific debate. And I'm saying that not because Joe Rogan isn't a great podcaster, not because of any of that

stuff. He doesn't have, he's a huge audience. I'm saying that because this is a guy who believes in Bondo Apes this is a guy who is platforming and doubling down on some of the artist things, not backed by any science that anybody with that platform is saying right now.

And that's a fact to me. So. Yeah. No problem saying that. And I am, and nobody is in my, so at first, I reached out to Dr. Holtett and said that he should debate Joe Biden. I don't want to debate Joe Biden. Debate Joe Rogan and then

or debate RFK on Joe Rogan's podcast. And then I thought, no, he shouldn't. Because to put a man of science and an actual doctor in that forum and allow him to get beat about the head by people who are not paying attention to what is real is a bad idea. But back to Biden,

some of this shit is funny sometimes, y'all, man. You know what I'm saying? It's like, the nigger is old. You know what I'm saying? It's like some of the shit is fucking funny, bro. I don't know what to say. Like, I'll watch that clip. That's funny to me.

God save the queen, man. He's funny. Do you think he was trying to be funny? I don't know why. Do you think he was like, this will get him? And he thought it would be funny to say? Nah, man, you know.

It's just, look, what you're judging the president on right now to me is his record, especially as of recent. And I think that he's making a strong, stronger case every single day that they have the country going in the right way. I think you see Desantis' candidacy imploding. And you see Donald Trump, who is basically. basically the fucking Bobby Brown of politics new indictment every single day. Anyhow. All right, we're going to now get to

our interview with Nealapitel. Yes. Leverch, the Dakota podcast. We're going to talk about AI and not the motherfucker from the sixers. All right, guys. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business.

Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum business. It keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business.

So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Cream. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies.

Sweet Green's new wraps have got you. Real ingredients? Zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aoli. Crumbled bacon. Corn salsa.

40 grams of protein. Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order. Dot sweetgreen.com. Look, we've been talking on this podcast about the latest craze, newest sphere. unlocked in society, that being AI.

What is AI? Is it an existential threat to human life? Is it going to cost us our lives? Is it going to cost us our jobs? Are we going to be living with robots pretty soon? Now, we have tried to get somebody on the podcast to talk to us about AI for a while, And it hasn't been easy. I'll just be honest with you guys.

Rearration, if we try to do this, it hasn't been easy. But we finally found someone who is going to try to help us answer some of the AI questions that we have. He is an American editor and blogger who has been editor-in-chief of technology news website, The Verge. Since 2014, he is also the co-host of the Webby Award-winning Vergecast podcast, Nilai Patel is joining us today on higher learning. And I'll start with my first question. From your reporting and your knowledge of AI,

is AI something to be afraid of? No. Not right now. Not even a little bit. You used it? Here's what I'll tell you. Straight up. Most people are experiencing AI filtered through social media.

So you're seeing the best stuff it can do. If you actually sit around with chat GPT, yeah, it might hit on you or whatever it does. But mostly it produces like C minus work. Interesting. Like if you're afraid of C minus work, you should be afraid of C minus work. But that turn of AI where it's just starting,

if it's producing D minus work, I don't think anybody's afraid of it. I think a lot of us swim in oceans of C minus work every day. And so that's what's scary about it. But all the way to should we be afraid of it? No. Okay. Neely, you saying not yet is equally as terrifying to me because it's not yet 24. It is that in the next five, ten years. So can you explain why you said not yet and not just a flat out no. And then also, if there's nothing to be afraid of, why do we have people testifying in front of Congress? Yeah. So the question is more narrowly, what are you afraid of? What is the

thing you're actually afraid of? And that usually what we're saying is we're afraid of the AI taking actions without us, doing stuff in the world. You tell the AI you want to book a flight to London. It sees there are no flights available. It starts a terrorist attack somewhere, so seeds open up in a flight. Like, you don't want that to happen. That's what people are talking about. Mila, I got me over. I never even fucking thought of that, bro. Like, you just, I never even thought of that, Mil. I what the hell? So that example there is, that's called the paperclip example, where you tell the AI to make paper clips and it turns the entire universe in the paperclips. Because it doesn't know what to side.

You haven't given any rules to it. This is classic sci-fi stuff, right? This is Isaac Asimov, the three laws of robotics don't harm. Like, that's what people are telling you to be afraid of. The AI will be able to take actions out in the world and you won't be able to control it. And then it will do horribly negative stuff to humanity. We're not anywhere close to that. right? Like, it just isn't quite possible yet. Maybe one day it will be, and AI will be able to reason its way to some negative outcomes, but it's not doing it yet. Then there's the other very real problem, which is that it turns out that people, Americans in particular, are just conspiracy-minded suckers who love lies. And AI is really, really good at lying people, like the most confident liar that has ever been created by man, by man. And then,

then there's a whole host of problems. We're going to make fake AI campaign ads. We're going to fit AI Biden instead of just wrapping ice spice. Yeah. Going to say a horrible race is like that's a universe of things that is bad. But that universe of things is lying at scale. Right. So what you're afraid of there is lying.

And like I think we should be appropriately afraid of lying. Lying a lot more than we were able to lie before. Lying more convincingly is bad. But that's not that's, I think that's a. that's like a measure. It's like we're turning up the volume on something that we're already afraid of. Then there's like the last category,

which is like, this stuff will replace my job. Yes. And that's where I keep coming back to. And I think that's the most real thing for people. That's like artists and writers and everybody. He's like, this is going to take my job away. And I'm, that's where I'm the most not yet.

Because I'm like, look, just look at the work. The work isn't going to win in the market. At best, if your job is sending, like, scheduling emails, and they have to be a little bit like fake polite. But yeah, but like even that is, it's a C minus. Like it's a canon of C minus content. And I think that will change the economics of the internet. We can talk about it.

But that fear, I think if you're afraid of C minus work, then you're actually afraid of something else. Isn't C minus work done essentially for free better than B plus or a minus work that's done by a human being that you have to pay. Yeah. Right. Look, and that's what you might. I think that will change the economics of the internet.

So I keep using this example. The entire internet is based on scale, like just more stuff, just cram it full of stuff. If you are a YouTuber and your YouTube strategy is to make four perfect videos a year, you are going to be less rich than the YouTuber who just, fires out two videos a day. That, that YouTuber is trying to burn out,

right? But the YouTuber prioritizes, like, like, you know, jewel-like quality in their videos. It's going to do less well than the YouTuber

prioritizes output. And so AI just changes this dynamic. That hasn't always been the case, right? There are lots of artists in history who prioritize really slow output filmmakers today,

right? You can think of who they are. The Internet has prioritized just output, quantity. And so AI just upends the dynamics of the Internet. And I think because the Internet is so dominant, it kind of upends the dynamics of all the creative industries as well.

Just real quick follow up. With AI, there seems to be some misinformation. And I'll tell you, there was a story not too long ago that across the pond over there, that they were running some drones or, some types of aerial defense testing. And they gave the AI instructions to, you know, how to hit its targets or whatever.

And after a while, the AI went, all right, I don't want to listen to you because you're inhibiting my efficiency and hitting my targets. And it apparently turned and attacked the programmers or who it wasn't supposed to attack. Was that a lie? Is that a thing that doesn't happen? That's a paperclip problem, right?

Where to achieve some goal, it actually starts breaking some rules. It's hard to know what actually happened, that story. I haven't read that story in great detail. I haven't seen the primary sources that story. That's the fear, right? And so what you see is those kinds of things happen or they happen in simulations or they happen in tests

and they get overblown. but the process of we're going to see if we can induce these things to happen is the process of building the checks and balances into the systems. So that would be very bad if the United States government or the British military was sending tanks to Ukraine with untested AI systems to go shoot things. It's not bad when it's we're running tests and the outcome of the test is this extremely predicted problem

has started to happen and we're going to figure out to make it not happen. And there's just, I think there's just, there's so much paranoia about AI because we have been awash in science fiction about it. That I think it's, it's difficult. It's difficult even for me to just sort of take one step back and say, what actually happened here and why did it happen? Versus, oh my God, they put a gun on a drone and now it's going to do AI horrible stuff. Neil, like, can't we just stop? Why do, why do we have to? Seriously, though, if it seems like, I know you talk about the paranoia with a paperclip example,

but it seems like, and maybe this is misinformation, that people are trying to achieve that. They're trying to achieve, you know, creating the AI that can express empathy. It seems like the goal is to get there. I don't know if I'm wrong and that's just my paranoia, but it really does feel like that, even when you say a not yet. So why can't we just stop where we are? Like, I feel like we're good. Yeah, there's proposals in this industry to just stop, right?

Elon Musk has called for a general pause on AI development. Is he doing that because he has his own AI company? Maybe, but he's certainly called for it. There's proposals in Europe to slow it down. The AI companies, the leading AI companies are all running around the world right now asking to be regulated, right? Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenA. to please regulate us.

I think he would like to help write those regulations to favor his company. But there's no shortage of, hey, we need to be responsible here and a raw market-driven rush to create products is not going to allow us to be responsible. So you, the government, should step in and write some regulations

to put some guardrails on this industry. No one is saying no to that. And I would actually hold that up next to the rush to regulate social media or the rush to regulate privacy, the social media regulations in this country basically failed because they all ran straight into the First Amendment. No one could get around it.

So Facebook can say, please regulate us, but essentially what you're asking the government to do is write speech regulations for Facebook, and they just couldn't do it. This is different, right? What can AI do and not do? What industries are you allowed to conquer? What data are you going to allow to hoover up?

That's squarely in kind of the government's purview, especially once you go around the world. And I think you're going to see some regulation because the fear is there, the political will is there. The verge in Vox Media, we just did a big survey about sort of Americans' attitudes about AI. The awareness of the products, like specific products is there.

So I think we'll get to a place not where we stop, but where we certainly put guardrails on it. The question I would ask to you in turn is, like this train has been cranking at full speed for quite a long time. Like Google has been talking about it for six years. Open AI has been at it for years, Facebook, Microsoft, all the big companies have about that for years.

When you take a photo on your phone, there's a ton of AI processing that happens on that photo. What people are reacting to is very specifically generative AI, something that can produce work that looks somewhat like what work a human can make. And that is the scary thing. I think that's the thing that we want to regulate the most. All the other stuff, I don't think we want to stop. Right?

So you run a massive social network or we run massive networks and we know that there are horrific content moderation problems in this network, right? There's all kinds of content. There is child sexual abuse material. There's animal cruelty. We know that making human moderators look at that stuff all day, every day causes PTSD. You want to race ahead on AI development to recognize that stuff and filter it up. Should we stop that too? The list goes on.

Should we stop the AI systems that can help us translate easily between languages when people speak fluently? I don't think so. So I think really defining what it is we're afraid of or what it is that we think we need a regulatory apparatus for. And then slowing that down and building guard rails around that is like the important first step. So Warner Brothers. Yeah, that makes sense. Warner Brothers announced today or it was reported today that Warner Brothers is going to use. AI-driven film management.

Or for some reason, the article, which was around for a while, it started circulating again today. And I think things like that touch a nerve with people, people wondering, how does a computer or a computer program or a specific, piece of technology decide whether or not the godfather is going to be a good movie or decide whether or not the matrix should be made

and you know i think that that's scary to people both because it they feel like it takes a little bit away from what we are and who we are and also because if we start curtailing things in society to or tailoring should i say things of society to make them make sense to a computer program. I think people are afraid of that. And I'd also even say this. I'm not so sure that the content moderation

shouldn't be done with a human being. I'm not so sure that as shitty as a job as that is. I'm not so sure that there shouldn't be a person that understands the emotional cost and the cultural history and what things do to people that shouldn't be doing that. I don't want to make anybody

look at some of the things that you mentioned are terrible. But I'm country. I'm from Louisiana and I don't trust them. I don't trust them, Eli. I don't trust these goddamn computers. So I'm trying to figure out

so I say all that to say this. Beyond what you just talked about, what do you feel like are the best uses for a? Yeah, I'll give you an example. First, I want to just agree with you. There's nothing worse for a human being than to be managed by a computer. It is the fucking worst, right?

And we see that wherever that happens, those people are miserable, right? Amazon warehouse workers are managed by computers against efficiency. They hate it. White-collar office workers in the pandemic, all working from home, they all had that productivity software installed on their computers to see if they're mice were moving and they were like working, these people reacted by buying Chinese mouse jigglers on Amazon that plugged into their USB ports and faked mouse movements

because they hated the computer watching them. People hate it. Do not manage people with computers. There's nothing worse you can do to someone than to say a computer is going to optimize you as a human. They hate people, the people just hate it. And so I agree with that. That turn.

And of course it's Warner that wants to just like turnover, creative decision making to a robot. Like that's the most Warner thing. Like modern Warner Brothers discovery. Like perfectly in character for that, right? Like, yeah. Am I surprised? You could have told me like, guess what studio this is?

And I'm like, it's a Warner. I don't know. Like, you know, a modern movie is like a logistics, like, what's the word I'm using? A modern movie is like a logistics miracle. And so like maybe you want to plug a bunch of data points and deliverables and that and a computer. and come out with a production plan.

Maybe that part's fine. Can we predict how much money the next horrible DC universe movie is going to make? It's not enough money. Don't make it. Like, I already know the answer. So, like, there's a turn in there where I think you start to manage people with computers

instead of managing a process with computers. And that's the problem. And I think that's, like, a legitimate, meaningful fear. But then you look at all the stuff AI can do. And I will come back to that content moderation. question. If you run a network at scale, the number of people that you need, just like watching all the content flow through the network, that you need to train, that you need to give these Byzantine rules to, it starts to just like become impossible. Right. And so like, of course you want to say,

okay, the worst stuff, the stuff that we know and the stuff that gives people PTSD, the virtues run story after stress, YouTube moderators, Facebook moderators, you name it. They filed class action lawsuits. They've unionized because it is such a whole. horrible job. So if you want to have an internet where people can post freely, well, you're going to have some really bad people posting some really bad show. And like, maybe we do want an AI sitting in there and saying, all right, we're going to not inflict the pain of this known bad thing. And all these edge cases here, I don't, I mean, it's not like I'm full of trust for our billionaire overlords. But maybe we can bring people into the grayer areas. And maybe that's a

healthier way to be. The other example I'll give you is honestly just taking a photo on your phone. You pick up your iPhone, you take a photo of something. The amount of AI processing that is happening there, the iPhone segments you from the background. It segments the sky from the background. It'll expose the sky correctly. It'll expose your face correctly. All that stuff is AI. And it gets better every year.

That's a miracle. The fact that my mother can take a reasonably good photo in low light is like a miracle of modern computing. It leads to all kinds of weird questions about like what a photo is, which I can do hours upon hours on that. But there's a part of this where by putting AI into a creative process, my mother taking a photo, her output is dramatically enhanced and it makes her want to be more creative. It makes her want to take more photos. And I think it's important to respond to that as much as we respond to, oh, this is going to take my job. Are we going to inspire more people to create more art because their work, the quality of their work is improved substantially? I don't want to turn away from that. One of the things we've talked about on this podcast is the writer's strike impacts the industry that we're in. Do you, and I don't know if you know the answer to this or not, but why do you think that, because one of the things that the writers are fighting over is about AI and the networks possibly considering the use of it.

Why do you think that, and this would affect their jobs, why do you think that they, that the network, works are pushing for this, rather than using humans to accomplish this work? Why do you think this is something that's on the negotiation table, I should say? I think the AI point is directly connected to the writers pushing back against the mini rooms, right? Where if you're a network executive, you're looking at your cost of production and you're saying, well, this is kind of going up. And then my return on investment has been going down for years, right?

You're not seeing movies and TV shows have rich syndication lives on multiple networks and multiple windows and multiple territories for years. You kind of make a show once and you sell it once, right? You make a show for Netflix and I'm a Netflix producer. We made a show. It's called The Future Up. You should go watch it. It's great. That show is not going to get sold into like syndication on 35 more networks in 15 more countries over the next 20 years.

Like it's on Netflix. I think you should watch it. I sold a movie to Netflix too. It's theirs forever. Yeah. There it goes. There it is, right? You make a show for Disney Plus.

It's on Disney Plus. And so this thing, where even from the network's perspective, the only way that that show is ever going to make any more money is that they get more subscribers. Because they're not going to sell it again. Like you made the first top gun. They have been selling that movie ever since for dollars. They sold it in multiple territories.

They sold it to cable. They sold it to add some like linear with ads. in the middle, like T&T is running this movie. They licensed it and emerged. Like this thing had a life where they kept selling it for dollars over and over again. Now the studios are just selling that stuff for pennies once. And so of course the studio is like, how do we make this stuff cheaper? And they first, they were like, well, just we'll hire fewer people.

And now there's this tool where it's like, what if we hire no people or one person with an AI? And of course, I think they will end up making garbage. I hope I've made it clear. I think a lot of the work produced here is garbage. And I think that will fail on the market and that the market might correct it. But if I was a writer in the middle of a union campaign and negotiating for a contract, I would be like, why are we going to let the market correct this and destroy this industry along the way when we can use our collective bargaining power to fix it right now?

And I think that's wholly appropriate. But that larger issue of like, oh, this industry destroyed its own economics and now it's trying to make everything as cheap as it can because it only sells it once, that's going to take years to correct. Yeah, if it's correctable at all. Look, so it, yeah, I think what happened to the lay person in terms of AI was this. So chat GPT comes out and people are doing all kinds of crazy things with chat GPT. And it seems like it's a tool and people like it, whatever. Then all of a sudden you hear Big and Pock on a song together.

And it sounds like they really recorded it. You know, it sounds like, oh. my God. And that, and people go, well, they brought Pop back from the dead to be on a song with Big. And then people start having all of these existential questions like, would they even want to do that song? Where are we going? Yeah. Does this mean that you could do a whole album with those two guys together, who gets the money? What is this? If we can have a new Beatles record, do we need a new record from anybody else who's making music?

And I think stuff like that, that's like we can make the guy who took the AI painting and then put it into the AI piece of art and put it into the art show. And they couldn't tell the difference between what the AI had, like, created and what the rest of the humans were doing. It's just kind of, it's those types of overt things that have to do with art and culture that scare people. and made people wonder like, what's the end here, black mirror-esque, Joan is awful type situation,

you know? And so to those people, you would say it's not that big of a deal. I wouldn't say it's not that big of a deal. I think it's a big deal. I think you have to make some big society-level decisions about who owns what and when.

Right? So if you say, like on the Verchast, we made a fake trade. song. It's called LaserBong. It's really good. I encourage you to go listen to it on YouTube. It's one of the funniest things we're going. I mean, it's just hilarious. We made it in two minutes. Right. It's great. It's just go. It's on YouTube. Check it out. Okay. If you say Drake owns his voice. Is every Drake impersonator out of business now?

Or is it just the computer Drake impersonators? All right. Now, okay, the human Drake impersonators are fine. It's okay to impersonate Donald Trump if you're a person. It's not okay to impersonate. or say Donald Trump, if you're a person with a computer. That's weird. How are you going to stop the computers from doing it? Are you going to tell a bunch of kids what code they can run on their MacBooks? I was an unruly teenager. You were never going to tell me what code I could run on them.

That was not going to happen. They're going to do it anyway. Are you going to tell Apple what software is allowed to run on its laptops? Do you want to do that? Like, do you want, I don't trust them, right? do you want the government stepping in between you and the chip in your laptop telling you what software you're allowed to run? I don't know about that.

Do you want to tell Intel what code can run on its chip? Like, you have to figure out where to stop it. And if you stop it at just the concept of ownership of the voice, I'm a failed copyright attorney. I don't think our copyright law is ready to deal with this. If you're like, you own your voice, what if someone's born who sounds like you? Like, that's just weird.

What if I'm parodying you? like you just get into this territory where the questions are kind of bigger than the answers right now and we have to make like a series of massive decisions about it. I'm not saying it's weird. I'm not saying it's not weird. I'm not saying it's not uncomfortable. I'm saying that sort of like flip response to that should be illegal. Well, you got to figure out how to make it illegal.

You got to figure out how to stop it and where you want to stop it. And I think everyone's like first instinct is like, copyright law because that is the only law that like really works on the internet. It's the only speech regulation we accept on the internet is when we say copyright law. And then like the picture come down is whatever. Like we the first amendment stops most things. Our sense of propriety stops most things about free speech online. You say, oh, that's a copyright law violation.

YouTube just takes that shit down and no one complains. It's the only regulation we accept on the internet. So like of course that's what we go to. But then you have to figure out. Okay, what are we copying? We're copying his voice. What about all of the other copies of this voice? What about all the kids out there who are trying to wrap like Drake and making YouTube videos of them trying to stop it?

And I think the music industry, they're like the only successful lobbyists in America right now. Like you look at the Trump administration. Like the only law that like sailed through was the music modernization act. Support from both parties under the radar, whatever. That's the music industry. They get what they want. And I would just caution everyone, letting the music industry, get what it wants is letting a bunch of self-interested capitalist enterprises own more and more

of culture. Not great all the time. It's still scary, but I think you should listen to Laserball. But like, where are you going to, where is the copy? Right? And it's like, do you all listen to AI Biden doing Ice Spice? I do. Whenever I get down, whenever I get down on AI and I'm like, it's all horrible, what are we going to do? I'm like, these kids made Biden rap, fuck. and Ice Spice. It is like the single most disrespectful piece of art that exists on the internet. It is disrespectful to Biden. It's disrespectful to Ice Spice. It's disrespectful to the listener. It's like every part of it is actually a perfect piece of art. Right. It takes none. Nothing is taken seriously. It's funny as hell. And it's like, are we going to, do you want to stop that?

Like that's better commentary on AI than any of the, I'm saying. Because it's self-contained. Do you want to stop it? I don't know. I think it's important to wrestle with that. Like, what do you want to stop exactly? Yeah, Neela, I'm scared again. One thing I just wanted to say about the impersonating, I think with like, you know, we're in L.A.

and you see people impersonating people all down Hollywood Boulevard, but it's very clear that that person is not the original. With a robot, like there was that song, Drake came out with the song or whatever, not Drake, but the robot came out the song and people were like, is that Drake? Is it not? You really couldn't tell. So I think that that's where things get scary or it's like that's the difference between you clearly know that person is not Drake versus I can't tell if that's Drake's voice on this and they're making money off of this or confusing listeners or whatever. Which is just like how is this all going to change the way that we consume pop culture or or share it or whatever it may be. Yeah. What would you, you would label it, right?

Like, these are the, this is the idea that the tech industry has, right? Like Adobe and Microsoft and Getty images, they've all come together. They have this thing called the content authenticity initiative where you make a thing in Photoshop or like a Getty photographer takes a photo of a real event and it takes some cryptographic label

that travels with the image no matter where it goes and you can see that it's real. that all sounds great. You know, like they should keep going after it. The problem is like no one's grandma is like hitting command eye to like check the cryptographic thing on a meme. You know, like you're hitting on that first problem, which is like, oh, people love lies. And this makes it so easy to lie. Like if just take that Drake example, fake trick.

I love the fake trick story on a number of levels. I mean, it's it's so good. And especially because it's Drake, like, if anybody deserves it. It's right. And it's Drake and the weekend. The weekend's like having it's like, maybe the weekend should let AI have made that show, which is my idea. I was literally about to go there. I was literally about to go there.

It would have been written better. Maybe that's AI. Maybe that's AI weekend in the show. Who knows? Did you see that one scene where he says Cartet Blanche? It's like, maybe you should have asked AI how to pronounce. Anyway. Put it out there.

But you get to that point where I say, okay, you're going to upload us on to YouTube. And you sound like Drake. And you're going to tell Drake the computer made it? You're going to tell him that you're a 16-year-old kid who's just trying to sound like Drake? How is YouTube going to know? Right?

At the moment that you're uploading some video file, is it going to make you like swear perjury? Is the program that exports? Like, just like the mechanics of like, where do you prove something is true or not? or that you're being honest, when it comes to me, like, that all just gets really muddled.

And then there's like really bad actors who are not going to give a shit anyway. And so when you see what's happening with the fake Drake case in particular, the record labels, they had nothing that they couldn't go after Drake's voice. They couldn't say you're copying Drake's voice for the weekend's voice or whoever.

They went after the Metro Boomin tag, which whoever made that song had just copied. So they had actual copyright infringement. right the metric room and tag is a thing you copy it it's a sound metric it's his sound you say that's an unauthorized sample and it came down and that's the sort of way that things are coming down now you have to get all the way to drake owns his voice to bring that down or if you want to say look you have to say parody or i'm not really drake or whatever you can do it your problem is the people who are motivated to lie are still going to lie and often they're pretty lazy so they're going to lie to

fastest way they can, which means they're going to turn to AI. And I think that part is scary, where all these ideas on how to solve it sort of presume that people will participate, they won't just lie. And it's like, I don't know, have you looked around? Yeah, they will. The internet's full of liars. Yeah. Yeah. So last question for me. All right, so we shouldn't be afraid of AI. You've made a rather compelling case about that. I'm not saying that I'm not scared, but I'm saying that you've made a compelling case. So is there A knee jerk, pump the brakes, make it illegal is

There's some good stuff in there too That's all I'm saying Okay, got you. Is there A piece of tech Or something that you've covered That you are trepidacious about Have fear about where it could take us

Or where it's going Is there something that you've seen Or that you've covered over there That you think that's not a great idea I'll give you an example that maybe we'll only play on this show because I say it on other shows where people look different and they're like, why are you worried?

Straight up, it's digital driver's licenses on phones. We should not do that. We should not put identity documentation on your phone. Apple wants to do it, Google wants to do it, the States wants to do it. If you are me and you get pulled over in your car and you hand that office of your phone, you have fucked up.

And so the idea that I'm going to give my driver's license to some police officer and let them have search access to my phone, oh, uh-uh. No, no, no. And that's, it's just like, it's that level of stuff. It's just stupid stuff that we rush into because we think it's convenient. And often where we make our mistakes is we over index on convenience instead of all the other stuff. Right. And that to me is that's like the first one that immediately leaves to mind is people want to put my driver's license. on this phone and I will never hand my phone to a cop.

And that's like the lawyer in me. That's like the brown person in me. All that is all added up. But I say that other place, just like, why? I'm like, dude, the last time I was going 15 miles an hour over in like my old Jeep and the officer was like, is this your car?

And I was like, come on. Right. And it's like I'm never giving that person my phone. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Terrify. That's like you wanted some like killer robot shit and I was like, don't get a cop your phone.

And it's like, it's not simple. But you're so right about the convenience. Like I think that's where we have to start looking at it, how it's convenient to just say, oh, let's just do this with like the drive, the digital driver's license. Because I see that happening. Like, I don't know if this is AI or not, but I went to the airport recently. And I went to TSA and there were two lines. And you didn't get, you know, just.

just like, you go here, you go here. And the line I went in, they were like, pull down your, take your glasses off. They're going to scan your face. Yeah. And I didn't ask for that. And I was like, well, where is this going? What is this for?

Why can't I just show you my ID or, you know, my, my TSA ticket? And they were like, no, we're scanning your face. And I still have this, I have no idea what it was for. And I couldn't jump out of line. And I don't know if that was a digital thing or whatever. I had no idea. But it was convenient for TSA, but I have no. no idea why they did that to me.

I'll give you the flip of that. I think about this all the time. There's a product I want more than anything in the world. I think about it all the time. I want a pair of glasses that will just tell me people's names when I look at them. If I had that, if I could just remember people's names, I would be the most powerful politician in human history. I'm charming. I'm well-spoken.

I got all the, I just can't remember anyone's names and everyone hates that. If I could just do that, right? I'd be great. And it's like, oh, shit, what do I need to do that? I needed to build a worldwide facial recognition database that is internet connectable and like available to me at all times. I don't think we should build that. Right.

Right. But I can see immediately the value of that thing. Like I want it more than anything. And I'm like, oh, to get that, I have to build this thing, which is probably unacceptable. And we just need to like, I think those are the tradeoffs that we're constantly making with technology. Like the actual mechanism of getting the product you want is really, really important. It's the same with AI.

Like, how are you going to stop it? You're going to have to write some laws. And those laws are going to have some uncomfortable tradeoffs in them. That said, if you can build me that pair of glasses, I will pay infinity money for them. Gotcha. Yeah. Google tried. Did work.

Nilai Patel. Oh, from the Burge cast, the Burge. Yo, I, this was one of the most nutritious conversations. Decoder. That's my other podcast for our interview CEOs. Decoder, where he interviews CEOs. CEO's. Oh, tell us, before we go, talk about who's the most interesting CEO you've had. You've talked to all kinds of CEOs over there on Decoder. Give us a little something about that.

Drive the people to it. In the last couple months, I've talked to the CEO of Google, Sundarpa Chai. I've talked to the CEO of Microsoft, Satya Nadella. They both believe that AI is a platform shift the same way that the iPhone is a platform shift. They're going to reinvent the companies around it. And inside of this conversation, those are big questions. If you're Google, and you're going to start having AI answer Google search queries, the nature of Google search will change, right? Just like how that product works, which our entire society is organized around Google search, like every minute of every day. So I would listen to that one. I listen to one with Nadella where he said,

I want Google to dance and I want them to know I made them dance, which is an incredible thing for a CEO to say. And then if you want to get, I can't remember the third. I was going to say if you want to get wild with it, but I can't remember which one I want to say. I would say, yeah, those are the two. It's Nadella and Pichai. If you're into this AI conversation,

we've been talking about a lot, comes up in almost every episode, but they're the ones driving it, and those are the two I'd listen to. We will do that. We would also love to have you back on higher learning if you have some time in the middle. You may be smarter today, brother.

That's Niela Patel. Thank you for joining us on higher learning men. You feel better or worse about AI now? I think I still have more questions than answers, even though I really like the interview that we had. I think Nelai is fantastic, but there's just so much unknown. And I stand by what I said.

I really feel like there's a race to create robots that do have empathy and feelings. And that walk amongst us, I really believe that that's where it's headed. Racist robots, homophobic robots, I'm serious. I really think that that's coming sooner than later. Racist and homophobic robots?

I think that, yes, I think it's all coming. Rachel, what are you talking about? What do you mean? Racist and homophobic robots? Like, why? I do. I just, I'm serious. I do.

I think that they're going to weaponize robots. Who's to say, who's to say? that you can't create robots for your own personal agenda. So what you think? To be racist, to be homophobic, to be transphobic, xenophobic, create a whole army of all right robots. I suppose. So what you're saying is you think they're going to take AI.

Eventually. Shout out to Nelai. He was great. And then use it to make an army racist, homophobic killer robots. What's a stop-up? Oh, you think they're going to use robots for good? I don't know. I mean, I don't think they'll use them for good.

I think that the number one thing that they're going to make the robots for is they're going to fuck the robots. I think that's the number one thing. I think the number one thing that they're going to do with the robots, I think, is fuck the robots. I think when it gets to the point that robots can be, people are not going to use robots for anything

that is constructive at all. I mean, you might have a robot to, like, get top shit off the top shelf for you or run to the store or whatever. But if they can make a really life-like robot, the first thing that they're going to do with the robot is made the robot give them a blowjob.

That's the first thing. That's like the... It's facts. That's literally the first thing... Hold on. What do y'all think the nerds at Boston Dynamics are doing? Like the guys at Boston Dynamics, right, who have been building robots in their fucking house

out of little bitty robots for a long time. They saw weird science when they were a kid and they want to make Kelly LeBrock. They're trying to build all these robots that you see jumping around. They limbering up to bust it down. I'm telling you that's eventually where all of this is going. So before they get to the racist homophobic robots,

they'll be having sex with the robots first. All right, Rachel, what should we do? We've been on here for a while. We have, right? Tom kind of flew by. I didn't realize it was that late. Yeah, you want to, we got Larsa Pippen, Oscar Diversity Rules.

We got Bill and Megan and Harry. Listen, I love an activated Bill Simmons. You like Bill. You like this, Megan and Harry. Harry situation from Bill. I like to see Bill get upset. Bill hit him with the straight. What I liked about it was that he didn't,

he didn't give a fuck. He was like, they straight grifters. And it was, it wasn't without significant, you know, blowback. People were, were, were, were, were, were, were, were, were, were, were, were, were, were mad about it. People were upset. But Bill would just say,

fuck it. I got something to say. I didn't have anything. He'd been waiting. He's not fucking with them. He's not fucking with them. What's the big deal? He's not fucking with them.

So what? And it's not his first time talking about how he's not impressed or fascinated with the Harry and Megans. And I think he says a lot of what people are thinking and are too afraid to say. These, Megan and Harry are polarizing. People, I really do,

It's either you really like them or you really don't. And I don't even think there's anybody who's like, ah, I'm indifferent. No, like you either really like them or you don't. I used to be indifferent. They made me not like them. See? They wouldn't have it any other way. I used to be like, oh, you know what?

They don't want the baby to be colored. That's fucked up. But then they just, they was dragging it, man. Like, you know what I'm saying? And it is true. I think they thought that they were going to come here and people were really, interested in them as individuals, in their lifestyle, in what they're building in the United States. I think they just went about it totally wrong. And instead, it's like, I could have told

you people are interested in the mess. They want to hear you shit on the royal family. That's it. And if you're not doing that, people really don't want to hear anything about it, about you. And I think that that's their track record of success so far. The things that are have been successful are when they're talking about the royal family, not themselves. So you don't think they have anything to say other than criticisms of the royal family? Well, I've been waiting. Maybe they do. I just haven't seen it yet. They haven't seen it yet. As a black woman, does it make your heart sing with joy to see a black princess? I never understood that. I'm going to be very honest. I wasn't one of those people who

waited to watch the wedding. I mean, I was like, great. Good for you, girl, you found your person. But I wasn't like, it didn't move me in that way. It didn't move you with like. It didn't then. It doesn't now. And after seeing the documentary where

Megan can't call herself black and constantly says woman of color, where she talks about not even realizing that she was black until a later age, I got issues with that. So you, what you're, It's hard for me. What you're saying is,

you would have issues with somebody who didn't realize they were black to say they got to college. It's hard for me to believe that. I feel like that's a choice. Josh, Jocelyn, I just feel like,

I just feel like I have a cute. I, I, I did not like the documentary. It really made me see Megan in a different way. I don't like me. I mean, I don't, they,

they wanted me not to like, because they're so unrelatable to me that they, it kind of, they wanted me. But look, I don't wish no bad on them people. I think, no, not at all. But I'm sick of hearing about it. And when I saw this Bill,

this sentence headline and listen to what he said on the podcast, it was funny to me. You liked it. I like them activated. Last thing I'll say before I got to go is, you know, Rachel, you can talk about whatever, but I only have one more thing to say.

Okay. We have to help Scotty Pippen. Get off. No, no. No. No. Why do we have to help Scotty Pippen? Nobody. No one in culture right now is losing

like Scotty Pippen is in a battle with Michael Jordan. This battle is over personality. This battle is over the past. This battle is over what did or did not happen. But also, this battle is for the real estate right now of respectability. And Michael Jordan and his team are waging a masterclass on Scott. Lost Pippin has just been entitled to half of Scottie Pippin's retirement, his 401K and his savings plan trust.

This is reported by Mike Walters and the people over there at the blast. He married her in 1997. They separated in 2016. This is in addition to the fact that Larsa Pippin has intimated and she might want to have a baby with Marcus Jordan. Oh.

She might take his last name, she says. It would be Larsa Jordan. It would be her right. It would definitely be her right. This is pettiness. This is pettiness on behalf of the Jordan camp to completely extract every last bit of life and public standing out of Scotty Pippin.

I'm not so sure that Michael Jordan didn't orchestrate the relationship between Marcus, and Larsa like he was running the fucking triangle offense I look at Scotty those picture of Scotty at the Scotty Pippinbrough

I want you to know something man you're great bro you're one of the greatest basketball players of all time man you it's so they kicking his ass

and you think it's okay they kick in his ass I'm not down with the conspiracy theory that the Jordans are have some type of vendetta against Scotty Pippen. Do I think that they like each other? No. I don't think, I think, I don't know what to say about Larsa and Marcus. I really don't.

But what I don't believe is that the Jordan family is behind this. They don't need Scotty's money. But I guess if they just really can't stand Scotty like you're saying, then they really don't care. Their goal is to just destroy him. I don't know how I feel about Larsa taking half his money, his retirement money. They have four children together. Some are still under the age of 18. So I don't know what's deserved here. I don't know. But I'm not down with the conspiracy theory. I'm just not. You find this so entertained. You don't care. You are entertained by this. I want to go on Marcus Jordan

and Larsa Pippin's podcast because they also have a podcast together. And talk about what? I want to talk about this whole thing. I'm sure they'd be so open. Marcus invited me to come on a podcast. I said I put laughing emojis under their podcast together and Marcus said I can come on a podcast.

We'd love to have you on. I will definitely come on the podcast. Look, here's the thing. If this were the other way around, let's say, I talked about this, on Vlad TV. Let's say that this was Sue Bird

and Candice Parker who had a beef and they were on the same team. Not that they were played together, but Sue Bird and Candice Parker, they didn't get along. And then Sue Bird

starts dating the or Sue Bird's kid starts date. How would you even do that? No. See, I can't even do it. I can't even make the diagram.

But I'm trying to see where you going. I'm saying if the sexes were reversed and this was a man who was dating the daughter of his nemesis the daughter of his a man, okay

if a woman's husband, wait a minute, hold a way, let's talk about it. So Lars of Pippet is dating the son of Michael Jordan. And that is Michael Jordan is her ex-husband's enemy. So if a man

was dating the daughter of his ex-wives or friends, okay. We'll be here all night. Wait a minute. I don't know why this is so hard for me. So Larsa Pippin is dating Larson Pippin was married to Scotty Pippen.

Okay. We got to get past that part. Okay, cool. And then that she is now dating Scotty Pippin. I'm drawing this out right here. She's now dating the Scotty's enemies kid. So, if a man,

okay, there's two men, okay, and then he started this man's, no, it's got to be two women. Okay, I can't do it.

I got to get to urgent care. Okay, I don't know how to say this, but if a man was dating, okay, this is toxic. I can't even do it. I'm not smart enough.

I can't do the thing. I can't do the word problem. It's like, man. Rachel, can you do it? I'm trying to say. I don't know where you're sure. What are you trying to say? What I'm trying to.

It's different how? If it's a man, how is it different? Because I know that's where you're going. It's different if a man was dating the female child of his enemy. Okay. Or if a woman, but they have to be a woman because Lashipa is, is Scotty's ex-wife. I still can't do it. All right, I got it.

I'm sorry, guys. Leave this all in. I couldn't figure that out. Like, leave all of this in. Ashley, do you understand what I'm trying to say? Yes. No. No.

Okay, Ashley, explain it. Look, okay, so one last time I'll try. So, Larsa Pippin. You're trying to make it where there's a... Wait. Scottie Pippin and Larson Pippin. I'm writing this down. Scotty Pippin and Larson Pippin are married.

We're married. And then she started dating the... I got it. Okay, tell me. If Oprah and Gail couldn't stand each other for some reason. Okay.

And they stopped being friends. Big, huge beef. If Stedman started dating... Wait, did I get this? Oh, shoot, now. I'm not, no, no, you're right. If Stembin started dating... Gail's daughter.

Which is Kirby. Yeah. Shout to Kirby. If he started dating Kirby, then what's your point? That would not be looked at the same. Y'all would be looking at Stedman like a creep and like he was wrong and like it was terrible. Be honest.

If Kirby, if Steadman started dating Kirby, thank you because I could wrap my mind around it. If Stettman started dating Kirby, that would be looked at, would you look at it the same way as Larsa Pippen, dating the nigger that she knew when he was 10 years old. I told you, you know where I stand on this. It's not if they had started dating right when the younger one turned 18. I'd have a problem with it.

Marcus is 32-ish, somewhere around there. Would you have a problem with- And that's when they started dating? Would you have a problem with- If Stem started dating Kirby in her 30s? No. Look, it plays fuck up. tell you thing caps off, but do not stop learning.

I am Van Lathen Jr. I'm thinking about you, Scottie Pippen, and everything that you're going to. And I'm Rachel Lynn Lindsay. Bye, guys.