Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - The Tragedy of PnB Rock’s Death, and Robert Sarver’s Suspension

Episode Date: September 13, 2022

Van and Rachel react to the killing of rapper PnB Rock and the ensuing social fallout (0:10). Plus, Phoenix Suns and Mercury owner Robert Server gets suspended after allegations of racism and misogyny (35:17), and Ray J produces receipts (47:35). Then, the roses and racism of the 'Bachelor' franchise return (57:47). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? How I'm learning is on. Is Ivan Lathin Jr.? And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. All right, no pleasantries this morning. Tragedy has struck in Los Angeles. It has happened yet again.

A rapper known as P&B Rock, gun down at Rosco's here in L.A. For you guys who do not know, there are several Roscoes here in L.A. It is a franchise. Most people think about Roscoes and they talk about the OG Roscos, which I believe is the location closest to me,

which is the Pico and Libreo location. Then there was a Hollywood location, but they got Roscoes everywhere. I think there's Roscos in Pasadena. There's a Rosco's in Englewood. And then there is one on the east side. Now, for me, Rachel, how many Roscoes have you been to? None.

You've never been to Rosco's before. I've never been. Never been. Interesting. So, so yeah. So there are ones that are the touristy ones. And then there are ones that are not the touristy ones, ones that belong to the hood. Nothing wrong with that.

P&B Rock was at one of these. Roscoe's Chicken and Raffles at Manchester Avenue in South L.A. Now that's on the east side where the guy, be honest with you, goes down a little bit more, you know, than it does. how about this? I don't know why the fuck I'm beating around the bush. If you don't know the lay the land of there, you shouldn't be over there. I'm just putting you straight up.

And I'm not in any way saying that like this in any way is his fault. But that's one that I was surprised to see somebody of his stature being at that Roscoe. He's 30 years old. He had been at the, he was 30, had been at the restaurant with his girlfriend. I'm not even going to say the last part of that because, I don't want to in any way send more hate or vitriol to her because this is not her fault. And I know that people oftentimes look for scapegoating times like this, but it's not her fault. A suspect brandish a firearm inside the restaurant demanded items from the victim.

The victim was shot almost immediately by the assailant during the robbery. Shot the victim and ran out the side door to a getaway car and then fled the parking lot. was taken to a hospital pronounced dead at 159 p.m. Many people have criticized the TMZ video showing rock receiving treatment while lining a pool of blood. I don't know what you guys expect from them. I don't have, I mean, they're going to put it up. I mean, not just them, but people are going to put the video up.

That's, yeah. Yeah, people are going to put the video up. We don't live in times where people, have any type of respect for that situation. Kodak Black was one of the people. I don't even want to talk about that. I don't even want to discuss that in the entire situation. P&B Rock seemed to know that his,

he wasn't quite safe in LA. He did an interview with DJ academics a couple of days ago, and he said this. Like, every time, take your jury is some shit? I don't know, but they'd be like, I'll be on shit and I'm not, where I'm from, we like sneaky. Like, in LA is like, they bow. like they want you to know they want you to they want to spark a conversation with you first

before they get into some shit some of them some of them might just go crazy jarred the times i got into some shit it was like they just gave a drop up too fast you feel me so the second time i got into some shit was like just talking loud as shit wanting me to hear their conversation and it's like i'm with my people's like my daughter and my girl like why they talking about this shit like this around like we outside we're on fair effect i'm like man you know i already pared the bliss I'm like, man, we're out of here. You feel me? Like, we're going.

My girl, like, no, we, I'm like, I'm just going off of the vibes. Like, we out. Is she peeping in the energy? Because I'm coming here to your point. Yeah, she ain't peeped. She was thinking I'm tripping. She was thinking I'm tripping. So, you know, in a mix of all this.

I'm like, no, we are. So she peeped it. I'm serious. All right, we could cut it. 30 years old, P&B Rock is dead. Rachel? It's obviously a tragedy. I was out on the red carpet for the Emmys,

focusing on that. And I couldn't understand what the, what was going on on social media in regards to PNB Rock. And I saw the tragedy that happened. And sadly, and unfortunately also came across the video, wasn't even trying to watch that. I truly hope that his loved ones don't have to see that, which is why it's so ridiculous. I know you're saying we shouldn't expect more from TMZ, but just the fact that people can just have a complete disregard for other people's feelings and what they may be going through just. to be the first ones to post something, I will never understand. Never understand. I do think that it is worth talking about, I know you don't want to mention it, but for those of you who aren't familiar

with P&B Rock or the tragedy surrounding all of this in the details, it is worth noting that, especially because of what he's talking about in that video with DJ academics, and also some of the discourse that's surrounding his death, what fan referred to, but didn't detail on is that when he, his girlfriend took a picture of the chicken and waffles and tagged the exact location. So, of course, people are starting to talk about whether or not that's how those individuals knew where he was. And there's been discourse just from people who are talking about the situation, but also

rappers in the game who are discussing whether or not, not. not whether or not, but just the fact of people that are high profile tagging their location and where they are just because of the type of society that we live in now. So of course, that's opening the door to people to have their opinions on whether or not that should have been done. But as Vance stated, it's not the issue here. Those people were going to rob him regardless, if not there, possibly somewhere else. And that's sadly the society where we live in. You have to be, you always have to be careful. But even now, more than you're going to be careful. But even now, so, people just seem ruthless in the manner that they come at people as P&B Rock was just talking

about with DJ academics in that very interview, you know, just the way that people come at you, the way that people want to have what you have. And I do think it's worth noting, I believe it was Nikki Minaj that talked about people out here aren't all, I'm so paraphrasing, people out here aren't always rooting for you. Not everybody is a fan. People want to prey on you. There are predators that want to take what you have and will do so in a way that ends in a tragedy like it didn't hear. So it's just all around. Like, it just seems to be happening so much.

And, I mean, there's nothing really more to say other than how sad it is. And my heart just goes out to all of his family and friends. Yeah. So as far as his family and friends are. are concerned. I think everybody that has opinions about that should be, especially the bigger your voice is, should be considered of the fact that his family and friends are seeing this.

Your relatives or your people pass away and you get to have your family and friends close to you and you get to share that with them or anybody that you choose to lend into it. This was a very high profile. murder that happened in broad daylight. Broad daylight, we're talking one o'clock the afternoon in Los Angeles. And your opinions, while you may feel that they are valid, you might feel that you're helping.

They also could be weaponized or energized in a way that hurts someone. So you should be very, very careful with that. Number two, with this entire situation, the reality is, as people, we always want to make sense of things. I think I've talked about this before on the podcast. A friend of mine was killed. Rest in peace, Jason, 2002, 2003. And, you know, we don't know really what happened, right?

I remember Jason was found in a car that was running. The car was running. And he was shot two or three times in his back off Alecippa in North Baton Rouge. And the kind of rule in North Baton Rouge, or in Baton Rouge, period, is if the street has a Native American name, you're fucked up if you're on that street.

If you're on parts of Choctaw, Aliquippa, any of those places in North Baton Rouge, be a Dixie wherever you at, that's kind of where it's going down, right? So you want to make sure you watch your back a little bit there. And the bottom two in South Baton Rouge as well, but North Baton Rouge particularly is a part of the city where you got to know where you're moving around.

So never forget, get a car, Jason got shot and he goes, Jason's dead. Okay? Many of those calls in Baton Rouge. Jason is, uh, the car's running. He shot through the back of the car through his back. He almost made it to the hospital. I remember telling somebody about the fact that I was

depressed because we lost Jason and the first thing that the person said to me was what was he doing down there? You know? Um, and I remember being upset. I was upset because I'm thinking, well, who fucking cares what he was doing down there?

I'm telling you that my friend died, not because I'm looking for a reason that he passed away. I'm telling you that he died because it hurt, you know? But human nature is to look at what somebody did and go, you know what? I'm safe because I would never be doing that. Like, that's not going to happen to me because this is something that I wouldn't do. I wouldn't be down there at that time. I wouldn't have fucked with this person. I wouldn't have done that.

I wouldn't have done this. And it happens all the time. It happens all the times. It's like normally in those situations, yeah, man, I'm sorry about that. But what were they doing? Do you have any idea what the hell was going on? And people did that with P&B Rock. They always do it.

People did that with P&B Rock. Why did he have all his jewelry on? We're going to talk about that because we have to discuss that. Why did his girlfriend post a location? Why was he at that Rosco's? Okay. The reality is all those things. could have been on purpose or all of those things could have been a mistake.

It's certainly a mistake to post your location anywhere that you go if you're a high-profile rapper wearing thousands of dollars worth of jewelry. It could have been a mistake. They're not from here. They might not know that there's Orozco's in Hollywood and even though Roscoe's on Pico and LaBrea, you're probably going to be okay, all right? The guy probably drives, the wolves got to drive a little bit further. They might have not known that, right?

and they might not have anybody to check in with when they came into L.A. to guide them all of those things. All of those things could have been a mistake. I do feel like this, though. We're at a point now. And remember that I did this all summer long. All summer long, all summer long,

I was inundated with different stories of the deaths of rappers. Eight different people who died, eight different ways, but there were definitely common threats. And I'm going to talk about some things that I learned about that a little bit later. But we really need to, if there is a we, which I'm not sure that there is.

I'm not sure that when we talk about the community, the black community, I think what we're really talking about are smaller communities and then a larger ethos or psyche that unites in trauma. Right? So I have a community in South Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where I know people, where I'm safe, where I feel safe.

Maybe I'm safe, who knows? You have a community in Oak Cliff, Texas, right? Donnie has a community wherever they're killing snakes or in Atlanta or in Detroit, right? But as far as a larger community, we have to come to terms with the fact that that doesn't exist. What we have are people in all different parts of the world who you know. night whenever something goes wrong, okay? Who trauma bond. But because you're black, that's not going to make you safe in somebody else's hood.

It just won't, right? They're not going to show you love if you're from Philly and you come to L.A., right? And you got you, there's nothing. So when we keep talking about we have to stop doing this. I'm going to talk about this a little bit later. We have to remember that the thing that we think exists, it doesn't exist. it really doesn't. Not only does it not exist from city to city,

it doesn't exist from hood to hood. Sure. Like you can be from parts of Baton Rouge, go to another part of Baton Rouge. They don't give a fuck if you're black. Because you're a black, they will fuck you up. So what we are trying to do

and what we've been trying to do is build this thing. But the thing that we think exists when we hear people talk about, hey, we should do each other like that. We're doing each other like that because it's not real because we're not there yet. All right.

Like it, it, it, it's, it's aspirational. So let's take the us out of the situation. You have to protect you and your family. And unfortunately, we have done some things that make that hard. Number one, we've made being broke. a pestilence and a disease in our community. We make being broke a pestilence and a disease in a culture. We've listened for 25, 30 years about how being broke was the worst thing that you could be.

And how getting it and hustling whatever way that you can was okay. And the reality of the situation is now if you walk around with that on you, you're fresh bread. You're fresh bread. That's an easy come of. up. It doesn't even matter why. It doesn't matter. Even the economic times that we're in right now, it does nothing but exacerbate what already is going on. These lives are worth less than fucking chains. This is wild. Not only is it, understand, everything that we covered when we did it on

hip hop homicides, we're talking about some of these things that are years old. P&B Rock, Drake O'Rour, Pop Smoke, all here in L.A. Not to be. mention young Dolph, not to mention the rest of the people that are just, you know, some of it's beef, some of it's just we robbing people, but these are lives lost forever gone. It's weird. And for me, what I can't do moving forward as a 42-year-old man, right, who sees the trauma that people go through, I can't make excuses for this anymore. I can't try to rationalize it or justify it in any way.

way. Like, I can't in any way act like it's a byproduct of certain things that we've all come to terms with. It's just, it's getting to a point to where we have to really, really think about the individual lives that are being lost. So, okay, when you, you said a lot. I'm trying to, I'm trying to gather my thoughts and pieces together. When you talk about one thing, I think something that you said was really profound is that bodies aren't lives aren't valued the same as chains are that's like that like you said that and I'm just like it's extremely true and it's sad but at the same time I'm listening to you and I'm like so what are you saying and what do we do? Because you talk about each person has their own hood you talk about we're not

all unified in a sense just because we're black and it's different from hood to hood city to city state to stay wherever you may be from. So does that mean that you look out for yourself in an individual way? You can only look out for yourself because you're not going to be protected from hood to hood that you go to. Right. Okay. Another thing with that is when you talk about lives not being valued the same way as chains are or whatever it may be, some type of material thing. They make you feel rich or bigger than the next or something that you can boast and brag about or whatever it may be. How much of it, and we've talked about this a little bit, is based on what's glorified in the culture at times, right? We talk about drill music. We talk about these things.

So when it comes to some type of resolution of a responsibility you feel as a 42-year-old black man, as a responsibility I may feel as a 37-year-old black woman. And what do you do? How do you rectify this situation? And we kind of have talked about it. We talked about who steps up in the community to say something. Because we've been here before where we've sat here and we've had these conversations about what's happening to people in our community who look like us.

And there doesn't seem to be any sort of resolution to it other than going back to the original thing of you got to look out for yourself. but is that is that enough? Like is that Oh go ahead What I'm telling you is the should doesn't matter When I'm telling you is there is no community And so like

And so what I'm saying is there's a community At certain times right And what I mean about that is There's a there's a community We get with each other Sort of when we need to We are The internet has made things way too big

For us to be united like And I'm being serious when I say this Like it used to be that there are three or four things that we need to come together on. But the reality is now there are so many different pockets of information, pockets of influence that you can't get two or three people to agree on anything. And what's happening now is if somebody says put the guns down, there's somebody else that's going to be, no, I mean, we live by the gun.

And that we have to take the time to litigate that, all right? Like if I tell, if I, if I, if I, if I look at a kid that grew up, that grows up in the South Side Chicago right now and tell him to put his gun down, he's going to tell me if I put my gun down, I'm dead. What can I say to him? The only thing I can do is when I go there to talk to him, I have to make sure that I'm taking the precautions in my life not to end up like somebody who grew up there. And that sounds harsh to say, but the reality is that.

And the situation, we, it's going to take. generations to reteach people in places that we need to reteach them, right, to educate them about who they are, about their history, about their worth, and get them out of this cyclical weapon of mass destruction, which is white supremacy. It's going to take time. And we haven't been doing it right. What we've been saying is, if you get rich, that's the reason why a couple of weeks ago when we had the conversation about like Jay-Z being a revolutionary because he made a bill. million dollars that's why I was saying that I don't think that that's revolutionary the reason why and I understand your point right um the reason why I was saying that that's not revolutionary is because there are many things that exist in the psyche of black people everywhere that it actually is revolutionary

to push them out of because see once you make a once you make a lot of money it doesn't mean that you turn around to become something valuable to your community necessarily to a lot of people and a lot of places you become a target and they're waiting for you to come back so that they can knock you off and take whatever it is they can get off you at that time and it's not your whole wealth it's whatever they can get if it's a ring if it's a watch if it's a car sometimes if it's just over a petty beef and so the revolutionary act right there in my opinion isn't making the money the revolutionary act is readjusting the paradigm of what it actually means to be. be a part of a community of what it actually means to have the fabric of social life be interwoven

with other people. That's revolutionary and that's what we've been trying to do. And don't, don't get me wrong. The reason why we cannot do it and have not done it is because our lives have always been valued. Our lives have always been, they've always been sort of, we've let the white man and white America and white supremacist. set the value of black life and we do it today even inadvertently. Sure. Things like this happen and we're upset, but when the state kills us,

we understand how wrong that is. And look, I get it. The reality is the state killing black people is this gigantic billboard of systemic dysfunction. And sometimes when you look at these types of situations that exist in the community, it's harder to see how those things are billboards of, systemic dysfunction too.

I'm not saying that we don't do one, but I am saying that because we can't do the other, I'm calling upon everybody to protect themselves. I'm calling all the people that are working to stop violence everywhere, the Jason Wilson's in Detroit, the Tamika Mallories, the Mison's, all of those people that are working to stop violence everywhere continue to support them. But until we actually understand being broke is not a crime. working hard, it's not a crime. Not having all the flashy, flaunty stuff is not a crime.

None of that stuff, none of that shit is worth killing over. Until we devalue some of the things that we value and value other things. And when I say value other things, I mean, I'm not talking about, oh, the family structure at all. Where's the church? What am I talking about any of that? I'm talking about value not in any way being willing to kill or do some. something fucking illicit for bread.

I'm not talking about, I understand that sometimes for some people, they have to, they have to, they have to, uh, they have to, uh, they have to turn to like, illicit means. I get that. I understand that society puts people in bad positions. But we can't tell,

we can't lie to ourselves and tell ourselves that everybody that goes out and does something like that is starving. Some of this has to do with the fact that we have overvalued material things. And when I say we, once again, I'm not talking about us all as a black community. I'm talking about some of the things and some of the people who have made it big. We've overvalued some stuff in our communities. And now the overvaluing of this is leading to people getting fucking killed. The overvaluing and material things is not allowing us to value ourselves.

There's no value in life, which is what you were saying about life, not being valued the same way as change. It's interesting too because everything that you're saying too highlights the discourse that's happening right now on social media in that it shouldn't even be a discussion of blaming the girlfriend in this instance. The fact that people can blame her rather than look at the fact that he was shot and killed by someone. It was murdered and not blame it and not look at it at the fact that you're going to blame the people who actually did it. you want to look at someone else shows that you don't even pay attention to that in the same way that you should. You're not looking at the fact that somebody walked in, pulled out a gun to rob, and then murdered him all clearly planned and there was a getaway car. That you can't see is the problem. You're looking at it as someone else, which I think, you're looking at it as somebody else's

problem, which I also think shows the way that we, I guess, flippantly look at killing. someone in the community. People, the desperation is one thing. We talk about the desperation. What we have to talk about is, is life being valued? Yeah. Is life being valued?

30 years old, man, look, I talked to eight mothers of eight people who are never coming back. I talk to spouses. I talk to children. I talk to friends, loved ones. And it doesn't matter if it happened in 2003. It doesn't matter if it happened in 2017.

They never fucking got over it. Yeah. They never got over it. Like the people that are affected by this, they'll never get over it. They'll do their best to get past it, but they'll never get over it. And the reality of the situation is there's not enough. We know why we're in this position.

And we're not in any way trying to absolve any of the forces that have put black people in this position for their culpability in that. We could never do that. You can't do that. but the reality the question is what are we going to do if there is a we because if there's not a we which i don't think that there's a we be honest with you if there's not a we then the question then becomes what are you going to do like what are you going to do how are you going to protect yourself so i wrote this down as i was on the road doing hip-hop homicides i think that there are there five rules that i think any rapper

should abide by in order to keep themselves alive. I looked at the common threads in all of, because I had to do something to get my mind out of the, the trauma that I was going through. And the rest of the crew was going through, by doing this the entire time, by recreating deaths and looking at where people were shot, sometimes you would go to places

and there would still be bullet holes and talking to mothers and all of that stuff is just crazy. So there are five things to me that rappers have to do to keep themselves alive. Because if not, it's not going to work. The first one is be a ghost.

Absolutely zero locations. No one needs to know where you are. No one. Unless you are performing at an award show in Madison Square fucking Garden where the fucking special forces is going to be there and there's going to be cops everywhere. No one needs to know where you are.

If you have to promote that you're going to be somewhere, like I'm going to Slapy's Club down on the south side, then what you need to do is abide by the second rule in this situation is it's a five-deep minimum. Two in the front, two in the back, somebody on one side of you. Five-deep minimum. If you can't afford to go there five-deep, then you cannot where you're, jewelry. If you can't, five people with you minimum, minimum if you like that and people know who you are. The third one is when you're in the hood, be broke. Do not go back in the hood

flossing on the people that are still there. I know it's a big stripe for you to say that you can go somewhere and wear your jewelry. I know that you got to be the hardest person in the world, but the reality is you're not you're not hard a bullet hit you you're gone you're going die so the reality is when you in the hood be broke in the hood be like you used to be if people know who you are you don't need to remind them it's nothing in that leave it at home all right go down there polly with your people build with them know what i'm saying j z had this lyric back in the day i wear more blame to the source of soul chain bang bang bang bang niggas won't do a thing.

That's over. That was then. They will do a thing now. And that thing will be to kill you. So you don't need to do it. All right. Number three, check in with somebody. If you're going to be, if you're playing in an away game, check in with someone.

This is my thing. When I'm saying checking in, I'm not saying, yo, I'm out here. I'm under somebody's protection. I got to call up a bigger OG because I know everybody got an ego and they don't want to be like calling somebody to move around in the city. But the reality is, for this particular young brother, this young 30-year-old man, had he maybe had somebody in his ear, he might have known that that maybe wasn't the right location to go to. That is wolves in the area. You want to go to Rosco's. You want to take pictures for Roscoes. If you do that in Hollywood, you probably okay. If you do that, I can't say

that you're 100% okay, but if you do that in Hollywood, you probably okay. If you go to any other other Roskos, you're probably okay. But the reality is, if you're at that one, you probably not okay. With the location. And by the way, it don't even have to be that. Somebody could have seen him coming in. Somebody at the store could have tipped him off. You just never know.

The fifth one is, what I said earlier, there is no us. Do not expect the people in any community to protect you or look out for you. is every man for his fucking self out here. And we keep proving it over and over and over again. What we want, what we're hoping for is to build enough bonds, do enough education, come together enough that we can build a thriving nationwide community. That's what we're hoping. We're hoping.

We want to. We want to make blackness valuable. We want to make blackness worth something. We want to make our lives worth something because this country has never, ever, ever taught us, never, never, ever giving us any reason to believe that our lives are worth anything. And you know what? They told us that. And I feel like we believe them. I feel like we do.

And it would be hard for us not to because of all the things that we're up against. So we're trying for that. We're hoping for that, right? But until we get there, you must protect yourself. You must protect your family. But don't at all try to protect your jewelry or your fucking car or anything like that. You protect it by leaving it at the fucking crib. You protect it by knowing where you can and should wear.

You protect yourself by not making yourself. a target by not moving in a way that will make these niggas want to kill you because they fucking will i'm so fucking sick of this shit man hold on i got to take a break man i took a ad of van i'm sorry i don't think i don't think you guys sometimes i don't do a good job of explaining just how fucked up hip-hop homicide was honestly van i had no idea until you just you know, we know the, I guess, the premise of the show, but hearing you talk about being in the trenches and who you had to talk to and what you had to see

as the first time I ever heard you say it, and I never even really fully grasped a situation. And I had no idea during that whole time. I mean, we were podcasting and that was weighing on you and you never, and you don't have to, but I'm just saying, I had no idea. I feel bad. I had no idea.

No, it's nothing to feel bad. It's just like there's so many, they just, They just fucking killing. Can I just say something else about what you said to add to it? And obviously I have no insight because I did not, you know, have the conversations that you had or see what you saw. But as you were talking, it made me think about social media and just, and I'm not by any means saying this because of her tagging the location. But just in the sense that a lot of people, especially young people, feel the sense to brag on their social media and to flaunt. what they have, and even people are watching you.

They're getting jealous of you, but they're also being able to pinpoint certain things, like your car, they can recognize your car, possibly a license plate, certain things in your house, your location. And it's not just you. It's the crew around you that's also doing that. And people put that together. I can't tell you how many people will look at something. This is just like I've seen it happen in Bachelor World.

They will post things in their house. People will on Reddit will go. want and find the exact place that they live in based on the things that they're showing on the outside and inside of their house. You got to be careful. People are watching. So when it comes to social media, I know it's cool to be able to post what you have and what you've worked for or whatever it may be.

But at the end of the day, is that worth your life? Because not everybody's for you out here. It's just all so fucked up, man. Look, rest and peace, P&B Rock. Please, God, man. just y'all protect y'all protect y'all selves man

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disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. All right. So this is a story that I think we talked about it when it initially came through. We were kind of waiting to see, honestly, I forgot, to be honest with you. We were waiting to see how far this

investigation would go. And I'm referring to the Phoenix. and Mercury owner, NBA, Phoenix Suns, WNBA Mercury owner, Robert Sarver. Is that he say his last name? Robert Sarver. Now, so back in November 2021, the league launched this investigation. And this came about because there was an article that was published by ESPN's Baxter Holmes, who said that he interviewed more than 70 current and former Sons employees, which in that investigation on his, on his investigating, it was. revealed that there was a history of alleged racial insensitivity, language, misogynistic behavior,

and other hostile workplace misconduct. Now, according to a statement from the NBA's office, the league office, the investigation revealed three things. The owner Sarver, on five occasions during his tenure with the Sons and Mercury organization, repeated the N-word when recounting the statements of others. Second thing is he engaged in instances of an equitable conduct toward female employees, made many sex-related comments in the workplace, and made inappropriate comments about the physical appearance of female employees and other women on several occasions. Even making inappropriate physical, engaged in inappropriate physical conduct toward male employees.

The last thing that this investigation revealed is that he engaged in demeaning and harsh treatment of employees, including yelling and cursing at them. The suspension that came down is that he will be suspended for one year from entering any NBA or WNBA facilities. During that time, he can't attend board meetings, board of governor meetings. He can't represent the team in any capacity or influence any business or basketball decisions. He can't attend any league-affiliated events, including business partner activities. I believe he was fined as well, so he was suspended for a year. I do not have the fine. Donnie, what's the fine?

$10 million. And he was fined $10 million. Van, this isn't the first time that we've seen this type of behavior from an owner of a team, whether it be in the NBA, NFL. It's not the first time we've seen it. won't be the last, sadly. But now that this investigation has apparently come to a close by the NBA's league office and the suspension has come down one year, $10 million, your thoughts.

$2 million per N-word. This is what it basically works out. I guess my question is, how much do you find somebody for the N-word? How much is an N-word fine worth? if you're an owner how much is the N-word worth should it be

is that $10 million $2 million per N-word obviously isn't much of a of a problem for him you can watch the games at home the board means it's like what do you really do

he owns the team it's like you know it's a that's it here's a deal and if you're not going to put out the Donald Sterling golden gun which the Donald Sterling, and this is the interesting thing,

so there's been a standard set from the NBA about what constitutes taking the team. And so then the question becomes, for any owner in NBA in the future of the league, who does something like this, the question becomes, does it meet the standard of what Donald Sterling did? You know what I mean?

And the reality is, This probably does, but we don't have any audio. We live in a society where the audio and the video changes everything. The thing about Donald Sterling that really bothers us, it wasn't that he said what he said. It was that we heard it. Best believe if you heard Robert Solver saying, oh, man, these niggers can't get up and down the court.

He's done. He's done. It's really the same thing. It is exactly the same thing. But it's so sad that you have to have video or audio evidence for it to actually be real. The fact that they talked to over 70 people, that was just an investigation done by ESPN. Then the league delves into this as well and still comes out with three key points, which I'm sure they're more. These are just the top three of how he has created this racist, misogynistic, hostile environment.

So to me, the only thing that needed to come down is that he loses this team. Because if I'm an employee and I work for his team on the WNBA or the NBA side, how do I feel safe and protected knowing that this man still reaps the benefits from these teams? Like, it's so unfair. And if I'm him, I feel untouchable. Because like you just said, he can have watch parties, watch the team, still gets like $10 million is nothing to somebody who's the owner of a team, two teams at that. And successful teams, I might add.

So I just feel like, and I don't know if it's, I don't know who should be speaking out. If I'm a player on these teams, I want to be transferred. I want to transfer. Transfer. I want to be traded. I want to be traded. What are you playing? Wrong T word.

English Premier League now? I think of college. I think in college. You want to transfer? Are you telling me right now? Are you telling me right now? I think of college. That Chris Paul should enter the transfer portal.

Devin Booker. Devin Booker, she entered the transfer portal. No, but they call him transfers at soccer, though. So, yeah, I get what you said. Remember with, oh gosh, you just said his name. Come on, Clippers owner. Tell me his name. Oh, Donald Sterling.

Don. Don, yeah. Don Sterling. You had coaches and you had players speaking out. I kind of am expecting that. To the degree that they could. But I'm kind of expecting that, at least from like a Chris Paul, a veteran. I mean, I'm sure.

I mean, but here's a deal, though. And this is another thing that we kind of have to get into. Donald Sterling also treated his players like shit. There's a chance that the people that, Robert Sarver actually treat it like shit aren't the players themselves but just his underlings.

Isn't that worse almost? It is. But the reality is that would make certain players less apt to be vocal. I'm not saying that this is the case. I'm saying that this could be the case. Donald Sterling was known,

known to treat the actual players like trash to heckle them and say all kinds of shit to them. and say all kinds of shit to them. But the players sometimes in these situations will have either an affinity or loyalty to people. And look, I'm not, my thing is this. I'm not necessarily calling on anybody. I'm going to stop calling on people to do shit.

I'm going to stop because they don't fucking care. Some people might care. Other people might care. And when the Clippers did what they did, it's not like they went super hard. It's not like they went, hey, we ain't going to play. They said a couple things to turn the jerseys inside out. I'm not taking anything away from them. But I'm not.

I'm not taking anything away from them. But I'm saying that's a difficult place for them to be in. I've worked at an organization before where you didn't agree with, I think that you have to. Me too. So that's a difficult line to walk. What I'm saying is that if racism and sexism is the bar to take somebody's team from them, then it should be the bar to take somebody's team from them whether we heard it or not.

And the reality is, in sports ownership, the only ticket you need to join the club is to have enough money to join. And after that, you got your shit. Like, we know these,

yeah, you're sick. Robert fucking Sarver doesn't care. Robert Salver is, Robert Sarver is somewhere right now drinking a Mai Tai going, I the niggas they thought they got me. Like,

he's like, he's like, oh, these niggas and these bitches thought they got me. This gives me more time to play golf all my y'all. He don't give a fuck. Ten million dollars ain't shit to him. He can still delegate from somebody.

He could talk to whatever. It's fine. It's a slap on the wrist. It's going to make people be more clandestine about their racism. And I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not so certain that that's the best we can't hope for in America right now. It's not to try to make y'all not be racist because y'all don't want to not be racist. The best we can hope for is to make you motherfuckers hide it.

Like they used to do. Like, they're like, yeah. The best we can hope for is to make you motherfuckers hide it. Because we can't talk to you about not being racist. We can't talk to you about not being sexes. We can't talk to you about not being homophobic. The best we can do is hope that you don't just get on the fucking, we don't want you to go to a Halloween party in blackface.

Like that's what you can ask for. Oh, my gosh. Go back to not seeing color. Yeah. That's the best we can hope for. I don't see color. Go back to that. I don't see color, but nigger, go wash my car.

So fucked up. What a fucked up place. I had a nervous breakdown on the podcast like 10 minutes ago. We're just going to, isn't this what black people do to get through? They just laugh their way through things. They just laugh. That's all we can do. There's something else that we can use to get through the through.

Somebody always brings us through. I need something to get to get through. I was me taking a Kalika made me drink some water Kalika Kalika Kaleika maybe kids drink water She was like what are you in there screaming about

Collinca? Kalika didn't want to come in Kalika was scared to come in Did I go too far? Well I couldn't really hear what you were saying but you were quite upset.

Right. And I understand it's been a long summer. Yeah. And it's really affecting you. Colleenica's a saint. Isn't she? I get it. You just got to give yourself a block of time to feel.

Well, I have to promote the show. And then. No, I'm saying. No, I can't. Well, I'm saying is I don't get the block to feel because the show's coming out in November and now we have to go promote. I thought you were saying that... Oh, I had to promote the show, which is why I was doing that.

No. No, no, no, no, I'm saying... I don't know. I'm saying... No, I'm saying I don't get the block to feel because now I have... Now we just had to meet, I have to promote the show, so now we have to relive it. But I think even more so knowing that, that you're going to have to think about how you handle it, how you move through those spaces, because you don't want to be on that emotional rollercoaster

every single time. It's true. So do y'all plan this? No, we didn't play this. You all got going on here? No. She should be like me. All right, thank you.

This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. It keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply.

Services not available in all areas. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a blood. vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfair Radio.com. All right. Let's go. I'm sure you couldn't wait for this to happen the moment you're back into the bullshit. Let's get back to somebody who's doing the Lord's work. I just want to say something real quick. My affinity for Ray J is genuine because Ray J told us he was going to come on this podcast and then he didn't do it.

So if anybody is listening to the sound of my voice, please ask Ray J why he flaked on the higher learning podcast. That's your friend. Hey, it's real love for me. You know, it's real love for me. I love people in the ups and the downs. Ray J. refutes Chris Jenner's claim that she wasn't behind Kim Kardashian sex tape release. Okay.

I don't know where Chris Jenner said Oh, okay, here it is She went on the late late show Last week during which she let host James Corr hook her up to a lie detector test Proceed to ask her questions I didn't see that In that lie detector

Did she say that though In a lie detector thing? Yeah, I'm going to paraphrase here I saw it after this whole thing went down And basically she was asked If she was the mastermind behind the same sex tape. And she said, no. Now, let's just be honest. Do you guys, we all know that she wasn't really hooked up to a lie to text or test. But that didn't stop Ray J. That didn't stop him.

So I guess my question is, knowing the truth of this from my time at TMZ, why are they fucking with him? I think they want, they got to want people to know. You guys, let me give you a little sex tape 101. There is no way. There's only one place a sex tape can leak. One place. Twitter. That's the only place you can have a

true leak of a sex tape. Even if your sex tape ends up on Pornhub, especially now the way Pornhub is, right? Even if your sex tape ends up on Pornhub or is up on TastyBlaks, she's freaky.com. Spank.

Spank back. Okay. Stop. Stop. Like homegrown videos.net. Even if even Even if your sex tape ends up on one of those tube sites,

XNX, X, hamster, X videos, all of those places, right? Even if it ends up there. You are a perfect. It is going to be deleted. It's going to be taken down. There's actually in some of these places, is there is, just so you guys know,

there's an algorithm that some of those tube sites have, right? And if your people are good enough, they can manipulate the, they can make it so the shit is not uploadable. Like, it's not going to work. I know very prominent, very prominent celebrities that have sex tapes, right? That as soon as you would upload that sex tape

to those various tube sites, it would be deleted. Like as soon as you would upload it, right? So the only place a sex tape can really leak is on Twitter because if I have a video on my phone, I can post it on Twitter without anything. Now, you can still come behind me and make Twitter take it down. But the reality is if it's up for five seconds, it's up for forever. A sex tape cannot leak too fucking vivid. It can't.

But aren't we past that notion at this point? I don't think anybody really believes that this wasn't an orchestrated offense. fair. Aren't we past that? Right. Well, obviously not. I mean, obviously to me, if, if she's pretending as if she wasn't behind it, and I guess Ray J is asserting something extra, because what he's saying is not only that she signed off on it, but that she wanted them to reshoot different things. She wanted the sex tape to look as good as it possibly could. This is what Ray J had to say. That was new to me. That was not new to me. You got the same contract I got, except guess what?

You rushed me to sign the contract because your mama was rushing me to sign it. So guess what you did? You signed my deliverables in your handwriting, right? Because you was rushing me. So you signed my deliverables. Kim Kardashian got her handwriting and her fingerprints all over my contract. When you look at the two, when you look at my signature and you look at her signature on my deliverables, that shit says sex tape number one. Sex tape number two and guess what?

The third sex tape or the second they've been trying to play me on, that shit called Santa Barbara sex. Her mama made us go shoot it for safety. She watched the motherfucker and said, hey, we're going to go with the first one because the first one is better. It gives my daughter a better look than the second one that I made y'all go do. But you watched it.

It made a decision. And then you get on whatever show you was on and take a lie detector test. Yeah. I mean, knowing all of this, I'm wondering why they're fucking with him. He knows everything. They can never admit.

They will never admit that they were behind that. Yeah. It doesn't fit their brand. He's never going to, but I, listen, I was thoroughly entertained by this entire discourse. Ray J. is hilarious. That's one thing I will never take away from Ray J. He is so funny.

And him putting this up, okay, come not, calm down. I said, funny. We're using extreme words here with legend. But the fact that he had. projected on a wall, had his friend going through the evidence who couldn't get it together, couldn't scroll, couldn't do it right? It was so pure comedy. He needs to get into stand-up or something. Reggie is funny. But what I also loved is that he knew this day would come. And he clearly had folders saved on his computer to pull out cards that were written by Kim, letters that were written by Kim,

so he could compare the handwriting. I don't remember if he said he had an expert do it or not, but from what he was putting together, it did look like it was her handwriting on those deliverables. He still had the contract. He's been waiting for this day. I hope, I want, I do want, as much as I talk about Ray J, I want Ray J to feel some sort of peace in regards to this situation.

Because what I don't think is fair is that they used him as a storyline to promote their multi-million dollar show at the extent. expensive Ray J and we've been through this before with Ray J. So I really want him to feel some sort of peace in regards to this situation. So the only problem, there's only one major, major, major point of

contention I have with Ray J. You have a problem with Ray J? I do. Ray J say what you're trying to do to me is almost inhumane and file at the highest level. Fuck, this is just being racist. It's wrong to do to anyone. If you've been proverbially

proverbally why can I pronounce words if you've been in bed with the Kardashians either literally or figuratively I don't want to hear the racism claims from you anymore

I just can't I can't deal with the with Kanye calling out oh why is racism like if you've been in bed with the Kardashians in any way

you can't at this point call what they are doing racist really looking back and getting on them it would be like me continuously trying to

turn people against TMZ. I was there too long. I was a part of it. It actually was a huge part in making me who I am. Now I will say Ray J was Ray J before the sex tape. Kim Kardashian wasn't Kim Kardashian

until really after the sex tape. We kind of knew who she was, but we didn't know as much about her until after the sex tape. She was a sidekick. before she became a star after the sex tape. So I'm not, so I'm saying right now, I'm kind of overhearing the racism.

You treat me racist, whatever, whatever. And in a way, I could also argue that the sex tape is only damaging to Kim Kardashian. That when people bring up whatever Kim Kardashian has done in the past, they bring up the sex tape in a pejorative way, but they don't bring it up in a pejorative way with Ray J. And that has to do, obviously, with misogyny and all of that type of situation right there.

Sure. So, so a little bit, but you guys, take it from me. Take it from somebody who knows. The Kardashians were willing participants in the sex tape, it's distribution, its promotion, the entire thing, bar none, 100%. Not only that, but there is a. a much nastier version of that sex tape, guys. There's a, there's a, there's a version of that sex tape where all I'm going to say is stay golden, okay?

Well, is that why, that's the one that doesn't put her in the best light, I guess? That's not the one that needed to be released. That's the one that, that's the one that's got a little wet, okay? Well, I got that part. Yeah. There's a, there's a different verse. So, like, they took their time to make sure. the best version of that sex tape came out.

And it was a part of it. I don't think they regret it. I don't think they regret it. There's no reason to regret it. And by the way, it's not a big deal. That sex tape came out. He bubble a long time ago. But don't blame Ray J.

That's it. It's not a big deal. But at the same time, you don't need to make him look like the bad person at the same time. Like, y'all both agree to do what you did. I can't believe I'm like taking up for Ray J, but whatever. You love Ray J. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech.

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This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, market peach, apricot, rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch. As is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items.

Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. We'll do one last topic. I want you to make sure that you introduce it properly because it's coming from your... I don't want to talk about this. Yes, please. We have to.

We have to, Rachel. Why? Okay. in Bachelor World, as we said, as sure as there will be roses, there will be racism when it comes to the Bachelor franchise. And last week we touched on the fact that one of the finalists, rumored to be frontrunner, Eric Schwower, Schwerwer, unclear, was photographed and published in Blackface in his high school yearbook. So there's two people that are at Fall Here. And now we have more background as to what happened because we didn't quite know before. But Eric here was pictured in blackface.

We saw that, got that done. But we didn't know who he was or what he was trying to be. Not that this makes it any better. But Eric has since issued an apology. We knew that was coming. And he says that he was wearing an afro. well, we saw he's wearing an afro and blackface to make his complexion darker because he was dressed up as Jimmy Hendricks, who he said he has a lot of love for.

And so in his apology, he said, quote, I wholeheartedly apologize for the insensitive photo of me in Blackface for my high school yearbook that has been circulating. What I thought at the time was a representation of my love for Jimmy Hendrix was nothing but ignorance. He goes on and say I was naive to the hurtful implications of my actions to the black community and those, closest to me and will never and will forever regret my offensive and damaging behavior. I'm deeply ashamed by my actions and understand that my apology is the only is only the first step in taking accountability and probably the last. I'm just kidding. The last part was not in there, but let's just let's just be honest. Okay. He's sorry after the fact. What does accountability mean? Oh, Rachel, you know what you're doing again. I don't care. You're judging people's apology.

I'm fucking sick of this. shit. I'm sorry. When it comes to the badgeration, and then on, just as you can expect, for him to, the apology was coming after it was found out, which this photo came out, and he took this photo in 2011, 2012, which I don't care how big of a white community you come from. Within the last 10 years, you at some point knew blackface was wrong. But yet, you still go on a show, knowing this could possibly

come out, because you know, all you have to do is issue an apology and then just as on cue, some black contestant that was on your season is going to take up for you and also feel that they have to give a statement in your defense to talk about how great of a person that you are. The person who did it this time is a black man on the show who wears twist and lets these white folks call him floppy hair, Nate. I just can't, I can't with this. You can't with any of it. I could not with any of it. I want to see floppy.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I never saw floppy before. I've tried not to speak on this because sadly I still, you know, Brian has podcast with the show. I still get tagged in stuff and there are certain things that I am privy to. And the fact that he embraces. I got to have Nate. I got to have Nate on. The fact that he embraces that nickname, they one black person with twist that allows folks to say that his hair, that his hair is floppy.

I can't. I can't. Floppy hair and Nate. I'm looking at floppy. Man, shout out. I'm not trying to dis this, brother. Shout out to floppy hair, Nate. I don't let people call you that.

That's not cute. That's not cute. It's not cute. I'm looking, I'm on floppy, I'm on floppy Instagram right now. Floppy got, floppy wearing an apron. You found that quickly. All I did was, all I did was put in floppy hair and eight. And it went right to this is his name.

I'm saying what I'm saying. All I did was put in floppy hair, Nate. Show him more posts from Nate Mitchell. Oh, floppy at the, at Disney World. This seems like a nice guy, man. I'm sure he is. That's not the point. I'm sure he is a nice guy.

I'm sure Eric's a nice guy too. Floppy, not Eric, not that nice. Floppy got the killmonger hair. He got the killmonger. That would have been a better comparison than floppy hair. Yeah. And he like floppy hair. You weren't twists.

Floppy hair and Nate has officially embraced the nickname. Floppy hair and Nate, he said, floppy hair and Nate, I fuck with floppy hair. But let me tell you something real quick. Real quick. It's the only thing I'm going to say, because you said it all best. I just want people to blackface whites to know something.

The whole tribe of blackface whites out there. I want you to know something. We know that you admire the person that you went in as Blackface. We know that you love them, right? The only person that y'all didn't like that y'all went as Blackface was Colin Kaepernick. That's the only person that y'all went ass that y'all didn't like. But we know that you loved them. Wow, there are others.

We don't fucking care. Stop! This is 2011. We had litigated Blackface by this point. Like, bruh, like this dude is only 30 years old, bro. Stop! You know what? That's it.

Talk ass over. Stop. Stop. We're done. You know, that, you know, chick filet. This is open real quick. Chick-fil-A. I got to go.

So do this quick. A Twitter user tweeted at Chick-fil-A, grilled spicy deluxe, but still no spicy nuggets. Chick-fil-A responded. Your community will be the first. I actually don't think this was bad. I really do. Somebody pulled it.

Somebody pulled up that that's just how they refer to people. But it sounds bad. The optics are bad here. The optics are bad. What the fuck? Apparently that's how they reply to people. Your community will be the first to know. Yo, we got to go.

We got to go. We get some spicy nuggets. You niggas will be the first ones to know. What the fuck is going on? Oh, my God. All right. We got to go. Please.

You guys take care of yourselves, protect yourselves. Please value each other. Please love each other. Please respect each other. If you can, if not, either respect yourself or make sure nobody can disrespect you. Either whatever. Take the key caps off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathin Jr.

I'm Rachel Lennie. Bye, guys.