Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Tragic Flooding in Texas and the Essence Fest Diaspora Wars

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Van and Rachel react to the tragic Texas floods, before switching gears to discuss the conversations coming out of this year’s Essence Festival. (0:00)  Intro (0:25)  Texas Floods (34:29)  Essence Fest 2025 (43:40)  Diaspora War (1:02:07)  Epstein Files Update (1:07:27)  Zohran Mamdani, African American (1:23:43)  4Extra’s 4th of July Accident (1:33:04)  Skip Bayless  Host: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Our learning is on. It's Ivan Laysman Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. The landlord lovers. That's the little, that's the, that's the greeting for the landlord lovers. It's hip-hop.

You got to let it go. No. No, the landlord loves us. It's a big deal. We are not going to get into extended pleasantries because our big deal today is a really tragic story. At least 80 dead. in catastrophic Texas floods, as the governor warns that there will be more rain coming.

89 people have died after devastating floods have hit Central Texas. A lot of the media coverage has been centered around Camp Mystic, which is an all-girls summer camp that sits along the Guadalupe River. 27 campers and counselors died in the weekend floods. Ten campers and one counselor are still unaccounted for. rescuers are searching for dozens of missing people. Before we get into the guts of this issue and the politics of it, obviously, you are very famously from Texas.

There's been a lot of talk about Hill Country, about this county, about what it means to go there, about what it means to be on the river, about how people have fun, about this camp, about how this is a part for a lot of people. of the culture of Texas to go here and have a good time and experience the natural beauty of the state. How are you feeling with what's going on in your home state?

I mean, I just, I can't imagine what these families are growing through, what they've lost, those who have no answers yet, the fear, the confusion, the frustration, the people, you know, politicizing it. I'm not saying there's not a conversation around it, but it's like people lost. Yeah. Life.

Children. Counsel, even these counselors are kids. Were you ever a camp counselor? Like, your kids. I was a camp counselor 16, 17, 18. Like, these are kids. You know, there's stories coming out about people getting accepted in a college. Just how they were making their money going into college.

You have the camp director who died trying to save people. I mean, I just can't imagine it. My nephew was at camp when this happened. And no, he wasn't at Camp Mystic or one of the camps along the Guadalupe River, but he was down there in Travis County, which there are now reports of some campers missing in that county as well. And, you know, my sister was getting text messages from my sister, not even realizing the gravity of the situation, but my sister, they had to go early. They couldn't get to my nephew because the water on the roads were so high. they're panicking, calling. A friend of hers was able to get through faster, took my nephew.

You know, thankfully, you know, they were able to grab him and he was safe. But there's so many people who don't have that story. And there's just a lot of, like I said, fear, but also just confusion on how something like this happened in such a large way. Like, I'm not saying that death sadly when it comes. comes to these flash floods, what they call this area, flood valley, like a tornado valley. It sits low. It's a beautiful area. It's called, it's hill country too just because it's a place in Texas where you have like, not mountains, but a lot of like a lot of hills and mountainous looking areas. And it's just very, very pretty. But it's low and it's very prone to flooding.

And this is known, which is why it has the nickname Flood Valley. So I'm not saying that flash floods don't happen. I'm not saying that death isn't inevitable, but there seems to be this lack of communication locally, regionally, nationally in this area where it seems like a lot of the tragedy could have been mitigated and prevented in some ways. And it's just devastating to watch. Like, I can't turn away from it,

watching looking at the pictures, listening to the stories, watching interviews of parents, you know, who are looking for that missing child or that missing family member or other people telling their stories of what was happening. It's just so sad. So the floods really began to sweep across Hill Country and the early morning hours of Friday. Yeah. The Guadalupe River rose 26 feet within. in 45 minutes.

We're talking about a 30 foot wall of water. Just complete insanity when you're talking about that type of force. Now before then, the Texas Division of Emergency Management announced that it was, this was on Wednesday, it was activating state emergency response resources because the threat of flooding was so severe. they had talked about it. They were saying that moderate to heavy showers were going to continue to develop and expand into Hill Country. Then Thursday, they posted more.

They said as we heading to the holiday weekend, the flood threat in west and central Texas continues, stay aware. At some point that morning, this is Thursday, the lieutenant governor, Texas, Dan Patrick, said that he had personally contacted judges and mayors in that area and notified them of all potential flooding. He said it was unclear exactly where in the region the storm would hit.

So they're saying, you know, all of this, there seemed to have been some type of coordination between the uppers in Texas where it was understood that there was going to be a weather event. but it seems like no one thought for whatever reason that it was going to be as catastrophic as what it ended up being. So here's my thing with that.

It's happened before. It happened in 1987. Same type of floods. And campers went missing. It devastated a church camp. And so my thing is, is why does tragedy have to happen for there not to be some sort of system in the place. And it's, it's, the reason I keep going back to the word frustrating is because you keep seeing officials blame one another when there clearly was a breakdown in communication.

Yes, Texas emergency management, I don't know the full name, Texas man, well, I just say Texas emergency management. They put out a warning, but for some reason it didn't trickle down locally. And if it did, for some reason, they, I'll use the term of the city manager of Curville, didn't want to cry wolf to panic people like they do in Houston. I'm literally quoting what the city manager said. He said, like they do in Houston. So instead of erring on the side of caution, you decided to take your chances. And this is the result of that.

And I just don't understand how if this has happened before, in the same area, how there aren't systems that are better in place other than alerting people on social media in the middle of the night and expecting them

to know what's happening. Now, again, it happened quickly. I'm not saying that disaster wasn't at the doorstep, but not to this level. Okay.

So a couple of things. Records show officials in Kerr County previously considered installing flow warning sirens, that never happened. Apparently they're there, they're just further down, not in the area, but yes. There were a warnings issue before the storm, but

it didn't seem as if the warnings came with the intensity that the storm did. And the question is why? a couple of different determinations that you can make. One is that whereas before this happened, what year was this? 87, 1987. That this happened then, and since 1987,

there have been a couple of very significant changes. One has been the effect of climate change on storms, the ferocity of storms, and how that's going to affect the people that are, living and hanging out and partying there. Two is that recently, and you know, it is not our intention to politicize an issue

while they're legitimately people still out there to be found. But there is a conversation that's happening about how prepared we are for severe weather events right now because of political decisions that have been

made on the federal level that trickle down to how things happen in states. We have seen cuts from Doge. We've also seen a very direct, I can't say this, very direct movement, political movement to extinguish the conversation about climate change culturally and in our policy. And a part of that is dismantling parts of the National Weather Service,

parts of NOAA and other bodies that monitor the weather. Now, I'll just be honest. I think this is a legitimate conspiracy. I don't think that climate change deniers actually believe that there is no climate change. I think that they know that there's climate change. And climate justice, one, climate action

two don't fit their view of America climate justice would be working on things that affect people in areas that they don't care about and then

actually climate action would be investing into green jobs it would be investing into green energy it would be at least the beginning of a reorganization of a part of the American economic system. And explain why they would be against climate justice we get, right? Explain why climate action is something that they would be against.

Because it doesn't enrich the part of the donor base that supports them. I'm not saying that there's only one part of the country that takes money from big oil or fossil fuels or any of that stuff. saying that at all. I mean, it's pretty well established that they give money to both sides. But what I'm saying is that like when we're talking about what it means to actually live in symbiosis with the earth and consider the climate of the earth, we'd have to do that in a different way. We have to prioritize and invest into different modalities to different technology, all types of stuff. We'd have to do that. And part of that decision is a decision that's being made in a very cynically political way.

It's not one that's being made because, oh, I don't believe the science. You don't want to believe the science. Believe in the science is not a part of your political existence. And there's a trickle down. I mean, obviously you guys know that Project 2025 talks about getting rid of some of these different things. So we're going to get to a point where we simply cannot monitor the weather as well as we used to. And there's a cost. I mean, meteorologists are already talking about it.

Actually, Donnie, let's play this. This is from a meteorologist in South Florida. This is before this. This is in June when this gentleman, I don't even know his name. I actually saw this on Sam and Emma's show. You guys, if you're not watching the majority of. report. Please watch. I want to play it for the audience here at Higher Learning. Listen to this gentleman describe how he was able to predict the movements of a hurricane from some years ago and then talk

about whether or not he would be able to do that now with some of the cuts that were that were happening in the federal government. Donnie, play that for us. It's going to turn. All right. The turn was never forecast to be on Sunday. The turn isn't even on Monday morning. The turn will come Monday afternoon, Monday evening, into Tuesday. Remember that? That was about six years ago. That was Hurricane Dorian, as it was absolutely devastating.

The Northwest Bahamas as a Category 5 sat over that region for two days. It was headed straight west. Lots of people in Florida were concerned the hurricane was heading here. And as you've grown accustomed to my presentations over my, 34 years in South Florida newscasts, confidently, I went on TV and I told you it's going to turn. You don't need to worry. It is going to turn. And I am here to tell you that I'm not sure I can do that this year. Because of the cuts, the gutting, the sledgehammer attack on science in general, and I could talk about that for a long, long time, and how that is affecting the U.S. leadership in science over many years and how we're losing that leadership,

and this is a multi-generational impact on science in this country. All right. But specifically, let's talk about the federal government cuts to the National Weather Service and to NOAA. Did you know that Central and South Florida National Weather Service offices are currently basically 20 to 40% understaffed. From Tampa to Key West, including the Miami office, 20 to 40 percent understaffed. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, Gusalcumab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections

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Restrictions apply. See terms at bandwold.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. So officials in Texas, you saw that press conference, they blamed the National Weather Service for a forecast that they didn't think was accurate to talking about how severe these storms were going to be. But the National Weather Service has lost 600 staffers. There was one very central figure in Texas that had been there, for like 32 years and took an early retirement because that was part of the package.

So that guy whose job it actually is to coordinate some of these warnings isn't even there anymore. So there's a lot of stuff going on with people asking if there was a different system in place, would this have been as bad as what it was? I mean, yes, I think that's fair to ask those questions. But I also think that knowing the history of an area, whether it's in, Southern Florida where they get a lot of hurricanes or it's flood valley or it's a tornado valley or earthquakes or whatever it may be, when there's tragedy that happens, you evaluate the situation, you put systems in place to be better. The moment that there's a flood warning,

those local officials shouldn't have even allowed those camps to be, in my opinion, active. They were already there, though. So evacuate. There was a warning on Wednesday, right? That it was rainings, flash flood. If that's the case, evacuate, move to higher ground, move the cabins that were on the lower ground and have everybody bunk up to higher ground. Something in place. There already should have been sirens that were already in place. So yes, I agree with the cuts. It just makes things worse. But it also makes it worse that locally or regionally, these systems weren't in place to prevent something like that has already happened before, especially to your point with climate change. But I think that sadly, sadly, if they don't hop on top of this,

which I know President Trump has been asked about it with the cuts, and if he's going to re-install, it's the wrong word, but you get what I'm saying, federal employees to fix it, he basically said he's not. He's not going to do that. But they're going to evaluate the situation, but this is what's going to happen. It's a well-oiled machine. The communication is getting lost. The coordination with that communication is getting lost. And then there's no evacuation process in the end to prevent tragedies like this from happening until it's already too late. So the guy that I was talking about was his name, his name is Paul Eura. He was the warning coordination meteorologist at the National Weather Services, Austin and San Antonio office.

It's been 32 years, half of his 32 years in that office. office and took an early retirement in April. Those duties include acting as a liaison to public safety officials, including emergency managers and providing government officials with information on severe weather. So it's specifically his job in a way to coordinate between the meteorologists and the policy leaders, the people policy leaders, the state and local government leaders, about to streamline that and make sure they each know what they're dealing with.

That's his job. He's coordinating. And nobody's there. He's gone, yes. He's gone and they didn't... No, nobody's doing the job. So, and even if somebody was doing the job, they don't have his experience.

They don't have his experience. This is what I will say about even the flood warning. And I'll sort of tie this in with Hurricane Katrina. There were people in New Orleans and in Baton Rouge who even after Mayor Nagin gave that impassioned

message to leave, wouldn't leave. The reason why they wouldn't leave is because their use to hurricane warnings used to them. Louisiana, every storm was going to be the storm that ended the state. And after a while of going through that,

I remember one time there was one that was supposed to come through and devastate everything and it just didn't. We had been through storms that were bad. We had been through Hurricane Andrew. We had been through storms that actually came through, knock your lights out, put a tree in your house, all of that stuff. One of the headlines from, I think it was the headline from the Times Picayune down there was a headline from one of the papers that said,

Katrina, the storm we all feared. So I'm not saying that people, even if given an evacuation order, wouldn't have left. But the thing that I know has to happen is they have to know how bad these storm is. So if you're given an evacuation order and if it doesn't happen in the middle of the night on social media like you said, like you said, if it happens with sincerity and severity that it should happen, then people can make the decision about how safe it is to be in the place. I don't know that they were given that opportunity here. I don't know if they were given an opportunity to know just how severe this was going to be.

And I don't think that the officials actually knew just how severe this was going to be because I think that there's cracks in the system and the way it's supposed to be operating. Yeah, so I don't I don't think anybody could have predicted the same thing would happen that happened 38 years ago. But knowing that it has happened

because this is the timeline. Wednesday, July 2nd, Texas Division of Emergency Management announced that it was activating a state emergency response because of the threat of flooding. That's Wednesday. Then they posted

on X and they talked about moderate to heavy showers, right? None of these, anything that I'm saying in this timeline is never going to say to the severity of what happened. But there was a warning. There was a notice. And maybe people don't know. I didn't know about 1987 until, you know, this came out.

So maybe people don't know, but local officials would have known. And again, that's what I keep going back to is there should have just been something, some sirens, an evacuation process. of when the rain start because we know that it's even a possibility that it can happen. July 3rd, 9.45 a.m., same group posted something on X about a flood, a threat of the flood, stay aware it's happening over the holiday weekend. Lieutenant Governor personally contacted judges and mayors in that area and notified them all of potential flooding. This is the day before. I know. When you say potential flooding, that's one thing. When you say,

and I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying somebody would have had to have said, hey, this is going to be cataclysmic once in a generation flash flooding here. Like, you have to get the fuck out. And when Mayor Nagin got on TV and said it, he said leave. He said, leave. He said, listen, get the hell out. It's a cat five.

It turned in the Gulf. It picked up strength. it is going to hit the state with more strength, faster winds, more water than what happened in Florida. So, and there was more of a warning, right? You see a hurricane coming. You don't know the full impact when it hits land, but you can see it coming.

With this, obviously, they didn't have that kind of warning and where it happened. And you're right, to your point, living in Texas, It is, I cannot tell you how many times I have watched TV and I have seen at the top right corner of my screen or the top corner of my screen, tornado watch. Right. We don't move.

We don't do anything. I'll see tornado warning and I'll see counties. We don't move. We don't take for cover until we hear the sirens. Then it's like, oh, it's in your area. It's shutting it off. But at any moment, the weather is unpredictable. As we just know, it could hit.

And you're right. You become desensit. to it. However, however, I just, this is just, it's just so hard for me to stomach that there's a possibility that this has happened and it happened in the same way. Didn't have the warning. It rains. When it rains, this is a possibility that in this exact area along this exact river, this has happened before. And the fact that there was nothing. Again, I'm not saying death, like that was going to be inevitable. But the tragedy of how many people and still counting that we lost could have been possibly prevented had there been sirens, had there been something where.

It seems the messaging wasn't trickled down. Well, right. Right. I think we're saying the same thing. Right, right. There's a systemic flaw here that stopped people. Did camp counselors know? That's what I want to know.

Did you even know? know the counselors, did the director, sadly, who was lost in this flooding? Did you know some of this stuff that we're reading right now? Some of this stuff in terms of what? So, like the lieutenant governor, Dan Patrick says, well, we communicated to judges and mayors. Was that communicated then to be? That's why I guess I'm just saying. I think what I'm saying is even if there would have been an understanding that flooding was going to occur.

I don't know that that would have made people go, okay, we have to leave here. Because if there is going to be flooding in a place that floods all the time, they might be used to the flooding. Now, if we have an understanding of just how dire the situation is, which would have taken very precise forecasts

and warning signals from the people who know it, then maybe you have a chance to relay that to people. Yeah, or maybe somebody stays up at watch because it's a possibility that, hey, it's been raining, it may keep raining. So you have, or you, like I said, you remove people who are a little bit lower up to higher ground.

Like, is there some kind of process that was in place to notify the people who are running these areas to, hey, you might want to go to higher ground because it's going to rain all night? It's hindsight, right? We don't know what could or could have been done. And it seems like nobody's taking responsibility. It's one agency, one government official is blaming the next.

But we need to figure this out. So tragedies like this do not happen again. That's the point. Right. So you might be asking yourself, why does climate change effectively, affect flooding. There's an answer. So according to

Rebecca Hersher, who wrote an article about this for NPR, it's a couple years old. This all starts with the release of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane. As humans keep burning fossil fuels, the atmosphere gets hotter. That hot air holds more water vapor.

So when it rains, it rains harder. Climate scientists have been predicting for decades that heavy rain would get more common as the earth heats up. At this point, scientists can measure what's happening actually in real time. The amount of rain falling in the heaviest storms has increased across the country between 1958 and 2016. That's according to the national climate assessment. The situation is most serious in the eastern half of the country. A lot more rain is. falling in the northeast and Midwest, which means a lot more flood risk in all kinds of places, including areas far from the coast.

So the inland flooding that you're talking about is very dangerous because floods happen really quickly and the water can be powerful when it gets moving. When a lot of rain falls in a short period of time, it doesn't soak into the ground, especially if the ground is already saturated or, if it's covered with pavement or buildings that aren't permeable. All that water has to go somewhere so it pools on the surface. If there's a hill, even a very small hill, according to the article, the water starts moving downhill. It gathers power.

And that is how a flash flood happens. And it can be extremely dangerous. It can tear homes from foundations, destroy roads, fill underground subway stations, watchaway cars. floods are one of the most deadly weather events that can happen because it can happen so quickly and it can be so powerful. And when you have the heat, which is holding the water vapor, then it rains, it rains harder. Areas that are predisposed to flooding become areas that are really, really dangerous to be in. Now, all of that matters if you believe it.

If you believe it, it matters. People say that the opposite of science is religion. I actually don't think that's true. The opposite of science is death. We're sitting in a room right now that's scienceed out. We're talking on science. We got science in our ears. We got science on our clothes.

We got science on our feet. All the technology that's used to make modern life has come from people endeavoring to answer questions and solve problems about modern life. And they're solving these problems through science. Even your relationship with your natural world, we've talked about on the podcast before about variolation and how our African ancestors

were able to take the smallpox and use existing smallpox infections to protect themselves from future smallpox infections, variations, varian. We've talked about that. That's using science in your natural world. When you are in opposition to science, you are in my opinion,

in opposition to full, healthy, contemporary lives. There's no other way. So either you'll listen to what people have, the information that people have given us so that we can avoid certain things, or you'll sacrifice. And this is a very delicate situation, and I don't mean to be an asshole when I say this.

we talk about all the time how people are in cults and we use the term in a pejorative way we use as an insult but we don't really think about what a cult really is right cults have sacrifices

you always have to sacrifice something you have to sacrifice your freedom your autonomy but in some cults a lot of them actually, you have to sacrifice your children. You have to give your children over to the leader of a cult,

to the figurehead of a cult, to give your kids over. And when you look at situations like Yuvaldi and you look at situations like this one, I'm wondering how many people are willing to sacrifice their children to an anti-science, pro-billionaire,

cult and all of the information that we just read, that's scientifically proven, it only matters if people believe it. It only matters if people go, hey, there's a way for us to understand our world. There's a way for us to have less of an effect on our world. And there's also a way for us to say, we're at this point right now, this is the way we need to monitor it. and yes, until people believe it. And that usually doesn't happen until they're driven.

Well, I mean, even then, like Yuvaldi, if you look at LaVovaldi or if you look at Parkland or if you look at Sandy Hook, I mean, we lost children. We lost kids. Like kids die. I'm saying the people in the cult directly happens to them. Right.

We'll see. Okay. Bummer of a way to start the podcast, but we're going to keep our eye on Texas and what is going on there because it is kind of, kind of, not kind of. It's going to be, well, we're going to keep our eyes on Texas, all right? And once again, we have to talk about the political ramifications of all of this stuff, but our hearts go out to all the victims, families. to everyone that's still down there bravely looking to rescue people or hearts go out to you too. But I wish, I wish that we had something more than prayers to give people. But let's take a break. Then on the other side of this, let's talk about the place that Rachel went this weekend.

I want to hear from you on this. I was on the outskirts, but sure. You're on the outskirts? Yeah, let's talk about it. It's outskirts? Oh, I want to hear about the outskirts then. Okay, let's talk about it on the other side of this. This episode is brought to you by Squirts.

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Essence Fest. People were saying that the Essence wasn't fest. this year. I did not make it down to New Orleans. Rachel, how was it? I was on the outskirts of it. I went there for a specific event. I was there for the Global Black Economic Forum. It was fantastic. I was there with SEIU, which is Service Employees International Union. I was with April Verit. And it was a really empowering forum. It was black leaders in several different industries, but specifically, I mean, I've watched a couple of panels, but I was there to watch April, who's the president of the labor union, talk about how businesses and unions are better off

when they work together. And it was a really interesting conversation, especially in light of the bill being passed and her talking about that and just how, you know, things are being taking away from us and how we all need to work together. It was just very, very interesting. It was very empowering to listen to different leaders and conversations centering around black, well, economics and how it affects black people and money and how it affects black people and investments and what we need to do and how we need to better use our money. So I thoroughly enjoyed what I was there for, but that's what I was there for. So I wasn't at the convention center.

I didn't go to the shows. I didn't walk around, have boots on the ground or anything like that. You're saying that. Boots on the ground. I got my boots on. We was driving down sunset and we heard boots on the ground coming from a place on sunset. Where them fans at?

It's called the Blue Birdy Sports Bar. I would love to see you try to do it since you can't even do the electric side. I can't do stuff like that. But there's a little bit more like electric side can be a little stiff. Boots on the ground is, I think you'd enjoy. I think I'd enjoy trying to learn it. When you say this and I know, you know, we get. at each other and it's okay. But when you say this, do you realize that it's my anxiety that

stops me from being able to do the electric slide? Like, I can't be, I can't do, I can't say what I'm supposed to say, I can't do what I'm supposed to do. It's my anxiety. I get out there, I'm like, I know I can do it, but I get, everybody's watching me. It's like, what's going on? I can't just get into the moment. How do you know you can do it? Do you like practice by yourself? I've done it. By yourself? I've done it. I've done it. I told you that I can do it when Gino's out there. By the way. Oh, Gino probably asked a little bit

a little bit of too much shimmy to it. He probably got you out there acting right. By the way, we got to say shout out. We got to say shout out to Gino, man. Man, we got to say shout out to Gino. That's all I'm going to say, man. Is he okay? Is it congratulations?

Hold on for a second. I got to, I want to send you something. I want you to just react to it in real time. I don't know if you saw this. We got to get back to the essence best. I want you to react to it in real time. This is involving Gino. We got to say shout out to Gino, man.

Gino, he got a fight on his hands down there in Ban Rouge. Oh, with the, he won? It's not, oh, yeah. Look, look, look. Did you get it? Did you get the picture? Look at the picture. It's not funny, man.

It's not funny. It's not funny, man. It's not funny, man. That's my nigger. Hold on, see? That's not funny. It's not funny, stop on it. It's not funny, man.

The headline. The headline. Okay. I don't know if we could talk about it. Okay. There's something going on with Gino and Baton Rouge. Shout out, support Gino. Brutely.

It's just a dramatic. It's just, they're just dramatic shot. It's not right. I know both people involved. And I would not have felt this way had you not set it up the way that you did. How did I set it up? You set me up to laugh. I didn't set you up to laugh.

Yes, you did. want to, it just, it all came out. You all know listening to this, that whatever I was looking at, I was going to be looking at something funny. But, but, you know, when we doing that. We stand with you, Gino. We're fucking with Gino. By the way, I know both people involved. I stand with Gino.

I'm with, I got to be, because I've seen the video, man, and I got to be with Gino and everything that's going on. Who took that picture? He probably took it. It's. Because he probably took it because it's evidence.

It's evidence. And it's also shows you how you react when it's a man. See? No, it has nothing to do with him being a man. It's that, like, I know that the picture was taken for evidence, but I also can tell that, like, something could have been wiped away, but you want to see. See? See?

See? It's super jarring. It's dramatic. And, like, the damage is done up here. But you see how there's a, come on, you know exactly what I'm saying. letting you guys know right now, this is bad podcasting. And it's bad podcasting because we got off on the tangent and we got off on that

tangent and we're not showing you the picture. Is the video in here? And we're not telling you the video is definitely in that. But we're not going to show you the picture. We're not going to show you the video. Because no, we're not, we're leaving it in. We're not going to show you this picture. We're so wrong. We're not going to show you the video because this is a part of

our lives of somebody that we know who's involved in the situation down there in Baton Rouge between him and the mayor's office, whatever. You can go look it up. But all I was saying was that when we do the electric slide, Gino points the directions. I've said this before. He points the directions and I feel more comfortable with him there.

By the way, if Gino wants to talk about his ongoing situation against the mayor's office, he has a place that he can come here and talk about it. But if it's an open investigation, like he should not. Okay. I don't know what's going on with it. I don't know if there's going to be criminal charges. Back to the essence festival.

Okay. So yes, I was not in the mix to be able to make. a determination to some of the criticism that's been going on. But I will say this. I got there Wednesday. And I immediately was like, it's quiet. Oh. It was really quiet.

Have you been to a bunch of them before? I've been to like three. Three, yeah. And I even went. I went with the group that I was with. We went, we were right there on Bourbon Street, ate at Bourbon House, decided to walk down Bourbon Street. Now, I know it's Wednesday and it hasn't quite, everybody has.

hasn't come in yet. Because everyone was like, where do we go? And I was like, well, I was like, I don't know. I don't really do Bourbon Street. But immediately I was like, Razzos and the swamp are my favorite places to like. Razzos. It's ratchet. I like it.

Razzos. Razzos. What the, and they're right across the swamp. Now, that's because the swamp normally has the mechanical bull in the back. I didn't go to the back to see if it was there. But we did go upstairs to the swamp. I always wonder who goes in there.

You know what I like about it. It's so touristy. I like. There used to be back. in the day this girl used to be on the microphone and they've got the windows open obviously and the stage is right there. You can hear the hip-hop music and they're talking to you as you walk through and it's just, it draws me in, it's so nasty. It's so dirty. It's Burbin Street. But I love it. Okay. I've been going to New Orleans since I was a wee child. I have never

once stepped foot inside of Rizzoos. You've been to the swamp though. I've never, those places on bourbon? They're super touristy. I don't really go in there. I don't go on there. No local would. I'm not a local. But you're close enough to where you've been a lot.

Yeah, but like it's so interesting. I always wonder like who goes, because y'all, when y'all, when y'all pass by Razzuz, it's always some white girl like, hey, with a big, like that's, that's you and Razzuz. Yeah, we didn't do all that. It wasn't popping. It wasn't popping is my point. And then when I was there on Thursday, very similar, I was doing things outside of of the French quarter.

I was with some friends. And so I wasn't, I almost went to club quarantine. I didn't go. I just got really tired. But, DJs. Yeah, but I, it just was like, it didn't have the, essence is a vibe. There's an energy.

You feel the excitement. It feels like I'm about to see my best friends. I'm about to run into people I haven't seen it a long time. And I'm about to make new friends. It feels like family when you're there. That spirit, I did not feel Wednesday through Friday. Wow. But again, I was there towards the beginning.

Right. So the reasons why Essence Fest wasn't that great this year as far as what people are saying. People are saying, I wasn't there. So I don't know. But it's all over the place. There's a diaspora war happening on Twitter. There's always a diaspora war. They made the Essence Fest.

As soon as I saw the headline, I started laughing. I started laughing. As soon as it turned into it, when they started doing the research of where people are from, I started laughing. It's funny to me now. It shouldn't be, but it always goes back to it.

So apparently, and this is in some of the articles, apparently there was a brother that was over to Essence Fest that was helping with the Essence Fest last year, and he's not there no more. He left to go being an actor. You saw that. Okay.

but that brother is from St. Aug and he is, St. Aug is an incredibly historic high school. They're just in St. Augustine Brothers. Okay, no. And so it's incredibly historic high school in New Orleans. Basically, if you're doing anything in New Orleans

and you're like, yeah, man, I went to St. Aug, it's like people are going to be like, yeah, you know what's going on, right? Apparently that brother went to London to become an actor. And now people are wondering if there's not enough local flavor, making the decisions about Essence Fest for Essence Fest to have the same type of familiarity and feel that it's had in years past. That's what people are saying. I mean, listen, it, I don't want to get into like the, oh, they're, you know, they're not from here type thing. They don't get it. But I will say with like most things, they seem to become

corporate. And let's go outside of Essence Fest and talk about non-black. festivals, South by Southwest. I went to UT. I've seen it 20-something years ago. It is unrecognizable to me. It has grown in a way, very similar to Essence Festival. It has grown in a way where it has become so corporate. Well, when things become corporate, they lose it becomes about the money more than it becomes about the community. And that happens to Coachella. It happens to South by Southwest. It happens to Lalapalooza. It happens to Lollapalooza. It happens to ACL. It happens to all these places because corporate greed wins and they're concerned more about that than what brought all these people together to this place anyway. The spirit becomes

lost. That seems to be what is moving towards as new leadership has taken over with Essence Fest. And yes, those people might not be from the area in the same way. They don't understand why this started so many years ago. And that gets lost in the face of, and maybe don't even call it corporate greed. It could be just trying to get sponsorships to fund this thing that has become bigger and bigger and bigger every year and to meet the demands of it. But I do find something's interesting

and I feel like there's conflicting message because is it Caroline Wenga? Donnie, play a little bit of what she had to say in 2022 so that we can compare that to some of the sponsorship in 2025. I was going to ask, Is it difficult for you guys to get sponsors? Because I know a lot of times corporate white world is hard to get sponsors.

They'll sponsor everything else. But when it comes to us, it's very difficult. Is it difficult for us? So we don't have that conversation. So first of all, here's what you need to know. I am in corporate recovery. So I worked at the Target Corporation for 15 years, right? So I know both sides of the conversation.

Here's what I will give you as a really straight answer there. One of the things that will be true in this new era of the essence brand overall is we're going to be really picky about who gets to be in part. with us. I think that this brand has been through a lot of things over its 50 years, and there was a time when it was so malnourished by the organization that sat within that it had to take what it could get to stay alive because we were not going to not deliver to the culture. And Michelle Ebanks did a lot of work to make sure that that happened, but it was not in a good place. As I came into role and partnered with Rich Dennis, who is the family that put this company back in black-owned hands, what became extremely important to both of us was one, changing

the way that the value of what we do as a brand is looked at. festival included. Number two, demanding that if you want to be in relationship with this brand, you have to be about black economic impact, period. If you're not about that, we will happily help you put your check somewhere else. Okay, you can stop it there, Donnie. Thoughts? Now, how do you reason that with the fact that Target had a huge presence at Essence Fest this year? Where did the messes get lost? Now, I saw Lainey. I saw his post about that Caroline was not involved this year, but she's speaking on behalf of what Essence Fest means

and what it means as an organization and the people who are running in and what it represents. So how do you, even if you're in, because this is what I heard people say, they're in a contract with Target for a certain number of years. They didn't have a choice. Okay, well, if that's the case, maybe you would say something.

Say what? okay, even if they said something like, we're in a contractual obligation to use Target as a sponsor for the first, for these next four years and we're still in it, and they were afraid that they were going to lose their money, okay, that would go in line

with what she had to say back in 2022. Yeah. That all means nothing now with Target as a sponsor and a huge presence. And you even allowed them to change the color of their setup to try to blend in. people wouldn't recognize that it was Target. It's just, it's like that kind of thinking or that kind of presence of how, what the black

community, particularly this age group of black community, the way that they have stood 10 toes down and boycott Target. And then you have them as a sponsorship, it's a slap in the face. That's one thing, I think. Then you have local vendors speaking out saying, hey, they made it very difficult for us to have a setup up this year at Essence Fest or they seem to feel ignored. Like, you're not tapping in with the community. That's another problem.

And then that also coupled with, like, where we stand right now in economically, like people don't have, a lot of people have been hurt by the current state of this country economically. And then also, like, Gen Z is not really into Essence Fest in the same way. So it could be past its prime and fading out. Yeah. which would mean that a rebrand or spruce it up, freshen it up, might be something that works.

Because for all of the stuff that you would talk about or all of the different examples that you had of festivals like Coachella or South by Southwest, as those festivals became more corporate, they actually started to reach out to a different type of person. as Coachella started to become a corporate entity, it became

less about wanderlust and being in the desert and all of that. It became more about fashion and celebrity and a big feather and a hat of artists that would play the main stage there. So things change a little bit. I don't know how essence change,

changes, and along with that, because there's supposedly an ethos to the Essence Fest that, respects and hold sacred a specific part of black culture. And if we don't hold sacred that part of black culture, then the essence fest won't matter, right? Because you're never going to have like the essence fest headline by like Kodak Black.

Correct. That's not what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be a gigantic cookout. I hate that term now. They destroyed it for me. a gigantic cookout where the whole family is together. And we know what kind of music gets played at those places. So I don't think it could do the type of rebranding that the other festivals do

because, to your point, the ethos of what essence festival of culture is, the full name. But I do think what they do is they don't seem to take into consideration the complaints and these people who've been going for years who make it an annual trip have. right? Like, all right, you bring back to Super Lounge. Why does it cost? Normally that's included with your whole package, which is very expensive. Instead, your three-day package, instead, you had to pay totally a separate amount of money to go and it wasn't included in general admission. It's like these little things where they seem to be a little bit out of touch and not in tune with what it is that this festival really means to people and what it represents. So people are saying that the attendance was down. That's obvious. that the attendance was down. But I also saw something else and I wanted to get your opinion on this.

This was posted on the El Twittersphere. And these were sponsorship guardrails that a company put into their talking points here. So to ensure dialogue aligns with blank company, no, AT&T

is the fucking company. I don't know why it would do that. To ensure dialogue aligns with AT&T's values while allowing inclusive rich future forward cultural conversation. I'm not sure for which specific panel this was, but this is some of the guidelines. These are things to avoid race, gender, or sexuality terms, negative framing of AI or tech,

critique of institutions, combative or divisive language. Say this instead of that. Instead of black culture is being erased, try. how do we carry forward cultural nuance? Say this instead of that. Instead of AI is killing creativity, how is technology reshaping the way we create?

Say this instead of that. We're losing our traditions. Don't say that. What deserves to evolve or be reimagined? Now, far be it from us to get on this corporate soapbox and flog our corporate overlords, but we have to do that right now. Okay.

And I will say that in my time doing this podcast for and on the Spotify network that I haven't been told or asked like not to say anything or how to say stuff, right? Not once, right? Now that doesn't really matter in terms of what corporations mean for people or what the purpose of a corporation aligned in itself with a huge cultural festival is. It doesn't mean anything. Doesn't make us pure. doesn't make the platform any pure doesn't make it any better it doesn't mean that

I'm just putting that out there what I'm saying is that black culture cannot be sponsored by a corporation effectively because black culture in its existence

is too destabilizing before any corporation to sponsor it effectively you can't target can't effectively sponsor black culture. AT&T can't effectively sponsor black culture. Black culture is, in my opinion, a response to American oppression.

It's a response to it. The culture that we've created here is us asking questions about freedom. It's us writing songs about freedom. It's us asking questions about how we're supposed to love one another. it's all black culture here in America. It's all framed around our connection to one another,

what we were able to take from our forebearers, what we were able to take from each other and create. It's technology. It's us building something beautiful, like in this wilderness that we were placed in. You can't sponsor it because you're the them. And by the way, this is not saying that there's people sitting up at the boards at these different places going, he-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.

It's not saying that they're doing that. It's just saying that eventually you're going to say something that they don't like. And the reason why you will do that is because you will say, hey, we can't fuck with Target right now because Target's main goal is a bottom line. And that bottom line can't be at odds with the president. And if the president and the rest of his people tell y'all to get rid of DEI, Y'all got to do it. And when y'all do that, we can't do it with y'all.

Target cannot be on the side of black people because it's too destructive to target. So, so like my entire thing is, it's like, I'm not saying you can't be in business with these people. Of course you can. We are in business with these people. Sure. And we've been in business with them in other ways. But I'm saying if there's ever a conversation that comes down to culture or corporation, those things are never going to be able to success.

be interwound to me. So great point. Totally agree with you. And I guess the difference is what you said about it would be a totally different thing if all of a sudden the corporation we're with told us, you can no longer talk about the very thing that your podcast is. The very thing that your podcast is centered around. You can't do that.

Well, then that completely destroys what it is that we're doing here. But there is no higher learning. So to me, when I see AT&T say, hey, you can't talk about, forget anything else, they said you can't talk about race. This is Essence Festival. We are Black. That is what this whole thing is about blackness and black culture and how we all come together to celebrate our Blackness. And you're telling me, I can't talk about Black, being Black. I don't understand how that makes it through the door for them to become a sponsor.

Like if Essence Fest is run by Essence Ventures, a black owned company run by a black man, how does that slip through the cracks? Are you more, I understand you need sponsorships, but when I hear Caroline Wanga talk about this is who we are and this is what we represent, and then that is who your sponsor is, or a target is who your sponsor is, I don't understand how the two correlate. And if that is what's slipping through the doors, then of course the spirit or ethos to use your word again of essence is lost. Because this is who you're allowing to run it. If you're going to allow these people to have their name on it and to put guidelines like this on the people who are on their stage

or whatever it may be, then how do you capture the essence of essence? You don't. You know, it's funny. Even in hip hop, you talk about a time before hip hop like really exploded and went like crazy mainstream right before it became the pop music of America. There seemed to be,

it is. Hip hop became the popular music experience of America. Have you seen the X-L videos come out yet? The double X-L? Yeah, yeah, that's my man. Sorry, you know what I mean. Whatever I've seen, I saw it. Okay, what to be like with Ian in them?

is exactly who I was about to say. Oh, Ian. And when you said the pop, what did you call it? The pop culture. Hip-hop went pop. It became the pop music of America. It made me think of him.

Think of Ian. And so, I mean, what ends up happening is what always happens, right? Like, you come out and you do something, and it's genuine expression. And that expression shows up in different ways.

It shows up with NWA, shows up with the native tongue. family. It shows up with Daz effects and it shows up with Schilo. It shows up with Kulio and it also shows up with Mac 10. Shows up all different types of ways. It shows up with Swave House. It shows up with Rap a lot. It shows up all different areas. And then we get to a culture that's more homogenized. And the question doesn't become, well, how do you rap to make dope songs, it becomes how do you rap to make money? And I'm not in any way, in any way, saying that you don't want to rap to make money,

or you don't want to act to make money, or you don't want to talk to make money. I'm not saying any of that. What I am saying is there is a line there to where when you're not doing it for yourself anymore or for your true experience and expression anymore to where they own you. And at least, at the very least, if any company was going to sponsor the Essence Fest, they would have to be sponsoring how we talk and not telling us how to talk. But I just have to be honest with you. I'm skeptical because America has never wanted to sponsor how we talk.

they've wanted to go, here's a presentation of blackness and then be a little less black. Could you? Here's a presentation of rebellion. A little bit less rebellious. Because we got to sell this to the middle of the country. It's just a little bit less of it.

It's a little bit less. And then they take a little bit less. And then it take a little bit less. And then a little bit less. Donnie. Like next topic. All right. Would you all ready to talk about

Mom Donnie or Epstein next? What you think, Rachel? I have no interest in Epstein, but I know you're very interested in it. So I want to take that away from you if you want to talk about it. No, I mean, it's so... This was not a shocker.

Okay. So I don't know what to say, man. It's like... You knew this was coming. both the DOJ and the FBI conclude that Epstein had no client list and he died by suicide. Ain't no aliens.

You know what I'm saying? It's like... Of course. This is the final result. Trump got elected. He had Cash Patel look into it. This is how Cash Patel looked into it. This is how he looks into stuff.

He had Cash Patel looked into it and the rest of the guy said, there's nothing, there's no there there. I guess it's fine. So leave us alone. So stop asking questions. Right. So the guy that was with Bill Clinton, that was with Trump, that was with Prince Andrew, it was with all these powerful people that, you know, hung out in circles with Gates and Dershowitz and all of these people.

Like all of these, this guy had a side hustle. Not he was, when he was with those guys, he was cool. Trump as well, obviously Trump. When he was those guys, he was cool. but he had a side hustle, a secret life, where he just trafficked 14-year-old girls and nobody knew about it. Nobody had any idea, nobody had any clue.

Then the arresting for it, he gets convicted for it, goes to jail, then he commits suicide and the cameras were off, the guards didn't see anything, no one knows nothing, and it's on the up and up. Well, they released raw and enhanced. Vance versions. Yeah. They did both.

Cool. So there's nothing to see here, folks. There's nothing to see here. Right. Now look, guys, so I've long said this. And the want to hide the Epstein stuff is a bipartisan effort. Jeffrey Epstein's death is the most bipartisan accomplishment Washington's had. Okay, in a very long.

time, okay? So I don't want either side here to think that you are clean from what this guy was running because he was with all of your faves. Whomever your political faves are, he was with all of them. I will say this, though, there is one side that has promised truth and promised transparency. I mean, I'm not going to allow it to a lot of the left liberals, they, they played on this a long time ago. they went, you know, look, we got to throw away Bill Clinton if we get too deep into this, so we can't do that. So like, whatever y'all want to think is whatever you I want to think. But there was a different group of people that, like,

played into some Q&ON stuff and played into all of that stuff. It's like, what's the real truth? Like, drain the swamp and the deep state. And we're going to be completely on the up and up. We're going to tell you what happened to JFK. We're going to tell you what happened in the MLK. We're going to tell you what happened with J. You sure you guys?

You guys think you want to know? Okay. we'll, we'll, okay, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll tell you. You know, we'll, you know. We'll look into it. We'll look into it. It's like, you ever been in a situation where somebody went through your phone? Okay.

So if you've been in a situation with somebody that went through your phone, they see some stuff, then you snatch the phone, you take the phone, not by force, right? And then you delete all the shit and you go, look, there's nothing in there. And then you go, look, there's nothing in there. You're stripping. Like, you're stripping. It's nothing, it's nothing. I told you there was nothing in there.

Like, you saw some of the shit and that was just, you know, but look, there's nothing in there. You're chilling. I'm a better person. You ever had somebody go through an old phone? Yeah, and that's the worst part. And log on to the, to the, I didn't know you could do that. log on to the cloud and look at all your stuff.

You ever had that? You're telling on yourself now. But look, I mean, what you want me to say? I don't believe it. I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. When you said this, I started laughing because I was like, it was only a matter of time. This seems this is not the way this happened. I don't believe.

Donnie, do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein had no client list and died by suicide and it's all over? You believe it? That's what they're saying. I'm taking them for their words.

Okay, thank you, Don't. I appreciate that. I don't believe it. I don't think that that's what happened. No, no, of course not. Of course not. All right. This episode is brought to you by weather tech.

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We have to, we have to, we have to tap on. We have to. We have to touch on, of Donnie. We have to. Okay. As we're talking about blackness and our brothers and sisters out here. Yeah, the diaspora. The diaspora is big.

He apparently in 2009 when he was a senior high school, which makes me feel old. The Democratic nominee, it does. I know that makes y'all feel ancient. He apparently checked a box. He claimed, or apparently, according to something that was from a leak that was sent to the New York Times, a leak of Columbia University.

He checked the box that he was Asian and also black or African American on the application to Columbia University. Like I said, this was according to a hack of Columbia University. Okay, so we should say this. This hack, the information, all right, so I'm going to be real.

Okay, I got to be real, all right? Okay. Got to be real. So this information came through a hack that was done. I'm not even going to pump them up and give him no shine by this group and this far right

fucking this guy's like a biological racist of some sort he's got it like fucking looks into all of what he believes to be the differences the innate differences, the inherent differences between races in terms of intelligence and all of that stuff

and guys does this on Twitter and they're hacking into all these Ivy League schools to look at their enrollment statistics to make all kinds of different points about that. The only reason why I bring that up is because when the Iranians reportedly hacked Donald Trump's stuff back during the campaign, that information was available to the New York Times and New York Times refused to print it because it was hacked information. However, here with Mom Dani,

this stuff comes out and Times prints it. You can make an argument that they are serving their corporate overlords by printing this stuff about Mom Dany. Now, now that that deflection is to the side. Mom Dani said he did not consider himself to be black or African American, but rather an American that was born in Africa. All right, I'll be honest with you guys about this. I love Mom Dani, right?

I love people first politics. I love discussions and talks about affordability. I love thinking about what government can do to enhance the lives or pay back the lives or ease the suffering and the emigration of people that pay taxes into it. Okay, I love all of that. When this first happened, I was making a lot of excuses.

And I was like it don't really matter. Technically he is an African-American. He is Asian. All of that stuff, right? I did something to hit me. I was being somebody that was letting one of my white friends say the inward. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

You are. Right? I was, I was. First of all, don't come down on me. You were. And I'm glad that you had this self-awareness on your own. I was letting one of my white friends say the inward. Right?

I was like, oh, this is my guy. He fucks with me. Blah, blah, blah. Can't do that. This is fucked up. Okay. It's it's fucked up. I will say this.

I am consistent here. 17 years old. I know. I know. I thought about this. Well, I have to be consistent now. Right.

17 years old. 17 years old. And I typically on this podcast and other places, even if you said to N-word when you 14, 15, 16, 17, I'm not going to be like, oh, my God. That means that you. are a piece of ship forever. In this situation, do I believe that Mandani...

In this situation, do I believe that Maldani was being honest on this? No. Do I believe that Mamm Dani knew because he checked Asian, he checked African-American, and then he wrote in Uganda, right? Do I believe that Mam Dani was trying to take advantage of race-based admission? at Columbia, yes. In the grand scheme of things, do I think that this matters?

No. Because for me to believe that this matters, I would have to believe some of the things that are coming out about him now, which is that he is a hustler, that he is a charlatan, that he is a student of privilege that is grifting

on leftist policies and people's feelings of, I guess, societal inadequacy in New York, and that he doesn't really mean any of it. And it's all him trying to center himself and his political ambitions. I don't believe that to be true. I just don't think that you run on free buses

and grocery pilot programs for people in New York City to be mayor unless you really mean it. And I don't think that you run on affordability and you put together the coalitions that he's put together and you say the things unless you really mean it. So is this a fucking thing?

It definitely is. Has it changed the way I feel about him? Not really. I mean, I won't say it's changed the way I feel about him, but if you're going to be consistent, then so do I. And so I'm obviously a lot harsher on people when they, you know, make racist comments.

Period. I'm obviously a lot harsher on people. Period. Period. Period. Period. Fine. Whatever. But this bothered me. Like, at first I laughed, right?

I was like, this is so ridiculous. And I too want to believe in the goodness of Mum Donnie and believe that he really is running a political campaign where he is about the people and a fresh voice where he is trying to make some change and listen to what people want and what they need and implement systems to make the city, since it's New York, better. I want to believe that.

I'm going to believe that. I feel like I need to believe that, right? But there's no denying that he didn't do what we are so critical of so many other people do. He used blackness in a way to benefit himself. And the reason I can't go by, well, he did write in Uganda, Ugandan, that's what essays are for. You have a very different story. When we were talking about you for the first time on this podcast, or the second time, Thomas podcast, talked about how he's named Kwame, talked about a little bit of his upbringing.

Very interesting. Gives him a totally different worldview than majority of people do not get. That is an essay that you write on your college application. You don't get to take advantage of a system and start checking random boxes because you want to bend the rules or use our blackness to benefit you in a way, knowing full well, you don't know anything about the African-American experience. He's smarter than that. He knows better than that, but he saw an opportunity. It's like Elon Musk saying he's African American. Oh, yes. But it's not the African American experience, which I know you know that. So the more I thought about this, the more it may be upset. And I'm not going to, I'm not going to turn my back fully on him and question everything that he's doing. But it does

let me know what he is capable of, which anybody is capable of, but capable of to the point where he tried to mislead who he is as a person on a college application for the benefit to advance in society by going to this Ivy League school. There's no other way to say it. And we have to hold his, as much as we like him and what he stands for, we have to hold his feet to the fire. If this was somebody else, we would rip them apart. So we have to hold him accountable for it because it is so wrong and it doesn't seem as wrong because in present day, he's not the terror that an Elon Musk is. But that's manipulative.

Okay. So here's why I agree with you and here's where I disagree. Number one, I don't think we have to hold him accountable for it. 17 years old. So that's the first thing I don't. So we disagree on those things. I don't believe that. But if he had gotten in.

Okay. And an African-American did not because it's like, well, he met the quota. That's where it becomes a problem. Now, he didn't get into Columbia, just FYI. Despite his dad working there. Despite his dad, his dad worked there. They were like, I'm sorry, what? That probably hurt him.

Your dad works here. That probably was on his application. And then you're going to say, you African-American, whatever. If he had taken the spot of a black person, it becomes a different conversation. or if he gotten in, there could be the argument that may be made that he did take it, but he didn't. Right. Okay. So this is why I, so there's two different things. Number one, it's all policy with me.

So it's all policy. I do believe that there are things that are disqualifying from being a leader. Lying is not one of them. It's just not. It can't be. Because there's just too many livesstone. I think allegations of abuse I think that

corruption I think things that show that you are fundamentally flawed as a person in my opinion do you know what the most important quality

of a president of the United States is it's empathy I would rather a dumb person be president that had basic human empathy, then a genius that didn't have any, right? And I think that your empathy and how you look at people in their lives is going to come out through policy. You're going to be able to ask questions about the lives of people

through the way you orient your policy. If you care about the coughs and hiccups that people have, you might go, oh, people need health care. to care about people having food in their stomachs, you might go, snap and different things like that. If you care about people being educated and being able to have a say in their government, if you care about power being centered in people,

then you might go, oh, we need to educate them. And education needs to be something that is easily accessible in the country, right? So when I look at him and he is talking, I think he represents not just him because he's not like Jesus. But I think him winning is threatening to a lot of people

who think that societies are best organized coming from the top down. And as long as this group of people feels empowered and able to dictate how the rest of us live, then will be okay. But if you care about how people are getting to work,

and if you care about how much their halal is, if you care about how they move around, whether or not they're fed, if you care about whether or not they have access to clean supplies in terms of like the things around, the bathrooms and things like that. If you care about the unhoused, if you care about that, to me, you care about building a society to me that's durable. So I care about your policy. This to me doesn't point to the fact that he doesn't care about that.

What it does say is something that I believe about most politicians. You do not work that hard on your image. You do not become that polished as a speaker. You do not, you don't even hold yourself out to be a leader unless there is some degree of ambition and narcissism to you. It just is. Like going to this college was a competition, becoming the governor of New York, was a competition, the mayor of New York, should I say.

So, you know, at my most cynical, I go, if someone, does he understand, do people understand where these initiatives come from? These initiatives are oftentimes looked at as conduits to black achievement, but they're steeped in the pain of black people. Like, I can make an argument that, affirmative action is not about going to college.

That's about not being able to go to college. Sure, sure. Yeah. And I would wonder if he has the cultural education or had the cultural education at that point to be able to understand that. If he didn't have it then, does he have it now? Maybe so. Maybe so. The only...

Mom, Donnie, come on the podcast and let's talk about it. Mero, I would love that. Moldani, come on the podcast and talk about it. And you know why it's so necessary? Because I actually... because I can see the commercials now. I can see the... We know he lost the black vote to Cuomo by like 18 points.

That's shameful, though. So it is. But for whatever reason, he didn't resonate with them. And now this is just something for them to use. I mean, Eric Adams is already on a tangent talking about how harmful and hurtful this is. And he doesn't understand the struggle. And he's just going to use this as a talking point

to put Mum Donnie down and for other black people to criticize them for it who maybe don't look at it in the nuanced way that we're talking about it. Well, they need to because Eric Adams is a cop that wants to have a boot on your neck. Of course they do. And he's just dripping with the viscosity of corruption. Yes, and willing to do whatever to stay in power as we've seen him not really stand for anything as he's coddled up to Donald Trump. So are coddling with Donald Trump.

Yeah, it's obviously there are better choices than Mundani and Cuomo if he decides to run. But the campaign stuff is going to write itself. It's going to write itself. Look, I'll tell you, I'll tell you all something else. So come on here. Look, I'll tell you something else, man. This is also kind of about y'all, like, you know, every time they, every time there's something. every time there's something,

somebody comes in and says, ha ha, not good enough, and we fall for it. I'm just saying, if Mamdani is going to fail in governing, because we don't know how he's going to govern, but if Mamdani is going to fail and governing,

he should fail, he should fail with the policies that he ran on. We should learn through his failure that you can't do pilot bus programs, that you can't establish, different types of public safety, that you can't feed people, that you can't house people, that there's just so much bureaucratic red tape and opposition to people first policies. Sure.

Even the failure of a candidate like that would be an awesome diagnosis of the fact that people just don't give a fuck about stuff like that. All right. We only got a couple of more things. Actually, I just want to talk about something. I want to ask you something. So a guy named four extra blew his handoff. Fourth of July.

Why did you make that face, man? Because it's a shame. What happened? So. That's why I made the face. There is no judgment. It's just like, God, like, it's too common. Donnie, were you aware of four extra before this happened?

No, I was not. Because we don't follow no jumper to the level that you do. So I've been following it less, right? But it's still sometimes entertaining. There was a whole situation that happened on No Jumper with my man, Almighty Suspect. Shout out to Suspect. Suspect end up losing his job

because he's spent on one of his coworkers on No Jumper. It's like a whole, No Jumper got their own... They need a reality show. They got one. It's No Jumper. So I haven't been as invested into No Jumper since the rise of Four Extra has happened. Oh, so are you anti-Hamper?

No, not at all. By the way, my one question is this. Poor Extra who is, his reputation is that he would the squabbles. He could fight. Okay. Well.

My thing is... See? See, that's my question is, why is it so funny that this nigger blew his hand off? It's not funny. Everybody on Twitter. I did not laugh. I do not think that's funny.

Everybody on Twitter, I did not see one person on Twitter go damn prayers for four extra everybody was I guess it's because he's got so much bravado and he talks about how much he'll sock people

out he'll tip him maybe so but every single person on Twitter was like and I even hit some ex-no-jumper my man A.D. I hit my man and shout out to Compton A.D., shout out to A.D.

I hit my man A.D. And I was asking Like, why is everybody so happy that he was in this ridiculous, gory accident? And then I saw some videos of him saying that he was going to blow somebody up with the M-1000s before that. So maybe people were like, aha, it happened to you or whatever. But not as a go-fund meet. The nigger blew his fucking hand off. Like, that's fucked up, right? It's totally messed up.

But I always wonder how I saw the video of him saying how he's going to blow somebody up. I don't know enough about him. but obviously it's a terrible thing to happen. I mean, you changes your entire life. But I don't know what to say. I don't know how I just do you hold. I would love to hear him talk about what happened. And maybe this could be a thing where you,

because this happens, it's too common. Oh, you know? And so maybe this could be a thing about some type of prevention when it comes to fireworks of like, how do you prevent this from happening? because I don't know. You want more extra to start a movement? Why not?

Make it a lesson. Okay. Because I think people think, oh, it won't happen to me. Oh, it won't. But it keeps happening to people blowing their hands off. It's Pierre Paul. Like there needs to, Pierre Paul, yeah. There needs to be maybe like a, I don't know.

I don't know. It's just happening too much. Some type of prevention. Did I ever tell you the story about the Jason P.R. Paul story at TMZ? Did you, because you were in TMZ sports. You reported it. You broke the news? tell you something. This is, I have to kind of give like half props to TMZ on this.

Because a lot of people think TMZ will do anything or whatever, whatever, but they won't. So I had to work on Fourth of July and I was pissed. Shout out to Evan Rosenblum at the work Fourth of July. Work part of the day, Fourth of July. The holidays at TMZ weren't the biggest thing. and I get a call from one of my people in Miami and they say hey Jason Pierre Paul blew his fucking hand off with firework and I'm like

are you serious? He was like, I'm telling you right now he blew his fucking hand off with a firework. He blew it up. I'm like, do you have a picture? It's like, no, I can't get a picture. It's like, see if you can get a picture of it wherever we could do the story. This sort of

is 100 karat gold. But I know that this happened. But I know that this happened. So I go to Evan. I was like, hey, I'm going to let you know that I just got a tip. Jason Pierre, Paul blew his hand up. So we work it. We work the tip.

We try to work it. We try to get more info. We try to get more info. But the people around JPP shut down. His agent won't confirm. people around. Nobody will confirm. Nobody will confirm.

But when I tell you, I know that this happened. I know that it happened. And I'm like, well, look, let's just fucking write it up and put it on the site. I'm good. I tell them, I'm like, I'm good to go at my source here. I'm good to go at my source. I trust my source and I know that this happened. And they go, no.

they go if we cannot confirm with the agent if we cannot confirm we can't confirm because they the guy that ended up breaking this they might be Sheffter. Yeah, I was going to say who broke who broke they might have been Shefter but I think there were some hippo rules that were broken and stuff to get the story. I think there was actually some movement over the whole thing

and I'm like if we can't confirm it with the agent or if we can't get somebody on record then we're not going to put it up. And I'm like, I was so pissed because I'm like, you know what? I'm here on the 4th of July. Nothing is going to happen other than us get fucking fireworks videos or athletes to put it up on the site to populate the site. And we actually get a story that's worth me being here on the 4th of July. And y'all choose now to be Walter fucking Kronkite and goddamn, uh,

Morrow and all that is Ed Gordon. Shout out to the OG Ed Gordon, the black standard in journalism. So y'all choose now to be these people. Like when I got the story that makes me staying here worth it and we never broke it. We could not get it the whole time. My source was like,

the story goes up, somebody else gets it. He goes, man, what's the point of me hitting you up with this type of shit if you're not going to put it on the site? blew up his hand with a fucking firework. Just like four extra. No jumper is, I just got to say it, man.

If you look at the last four or five months of no jumper, you got to ask if no jumper's cursed. Longer than that, right? You had, man, brick baby. This guy's not from No Jumper, but a guy named Luce Cannon also was part of like, I guess, this huge RICO that they went to jail. Luce Cannon wasn't on No Jumper,

but he was like he had been on No Jumpper before Brick Baby was on No Jumper. Then you had my man Suspect, who I also just heard, it was also arrested, might be incarcerated right now. Suspects really, he's a very, I've talked to him before, he's a very funny, like crazy cat, but I like them on there. And then you have four extra blowing his hand off and everybody laughing, not even caring. It's like, what's going on over at No Jumper, man? watching it. Stop. It's entertaining.

And you learn it, it's entertaining. You don't think. No. No. Do you watch, you watch shit that's also, come on, man. You watch, you watch Potomac. Don't you ever compare the ladies of Potomac. One of the ladies just went to jail.

See? Didn't one of the ladies just go to jail for, For like, didn't the Grand Dame go to jail? She's an addict. Why is she driving? She could kill somebody. She wasn't. Well, rumors are she wasn't driving.

I love it was. Oh, so her lover was driving. That's a rumor. That's not substantiated by any. So you tell me the Grand Dame was going down or something? Oh, that rumor has, okay, no, no, no. That's not what was happening. So what's going on?

That, no, the rumor is that somebody else was driving the car, but she didn't want to get caught up in that. So he jumped out and. Oh, yeah. Yeah. How much time she gets? But they've been saying she's been having an affair. That's been a storyline for a long time. Two years.

She got two years in jail? I think she got two years. But it won't be the whole two years. I think that's what it was. All right. Somebody blow their hand up with a fucking firework, man. Don't laugh at them. Like, what's so funny about that?

What's so funny? It's gruesome. The picture was fucking gruesome. It's gross. Yeah, I saw that. I thought that was fake. That's how gross it looked. Skip Bayliss or no?

No. No, Skip Baylis? I didn't even listen to the video. I saw the headline. like absolutely the fuck not. Donnie play it. No, we're not. Don't want to hear a white rant.

I must admit, when sinners ended, I felt battered. I said, I don't want to be bludgeoned and battered by white guilt. Look, sinners has no use for white people nor should it. Did he just watch the movie? The prevailing metaphor, of course, is that. Evil, devious, white people, tricked black people and sucked their blood and turned them into something they weren't meant to be. Wow. Skip spitting.

Oh, it's over. That's it. Because I thought it was a three-minute thing. We're not about to listen to all three minutes of that. I'm absolutely not doing it. We're not about to listen to all three minutes of that. Skip, Skip feels battered by white guilt. Rachel?

That's your fault. If you, if it triggered something in you, then you got some explaining to do. That's all I'm going to say about that. And if that's all you took from the movie, then that has something to say about you too. Skip ain't never seen the nigger that he hasn't treated like shit on TV. So I don't know what the fuck. I'm supposed to say it's good.

Let me ask you this. Have you ever felt black guilt? Has a movie ever made you feel black guilt? Because you hear about white guilt. No. Has there ever been a movie or anything that made you feel black guilt? So I guess this would be a movie. where black people were like picking on white people

or fucking over some white person or kicking a white person in their ass or or doing any of that stuff. Has a movie ever made you feel black guilt? As I tend to say from time to time, all those examples that you gave, I feel nothing. Nothing. Even a video on Instagram or something

that made you feel like, man, look at these four black people fucking over this white guy. Like, why? Why are they doing this? Have you ever felt black guilt from watching something? No. I've never felt it. No. Because every time I saw it, it was like they deserved it.

Every single time it's happened, I was like, what did they do to deserve? Or even if, like, what did they do to deserve? That's probably wrong, though, right? No, because it's a fictional movie. But I'm just saying, even if, even in, like, at the end of American History X, the black kid comes in, he kills Ed Norton's little brother. I don't know if I was supposed to feel bad, but Ed Norton's little brother was a fucking skinhead,

so I was kind of like, why are you fucking with these niggins? Okay, we gotta go. I felt bad that that kid died, and he was a product of growing up in that racism that... You saw that? One of the best movies. See, from time to time,

I was surprised you. American history. I've seen it multiple times. Wow. Multiple times. Oh, I know why. I don't even want to hear it. Let's just go.

I don't know why. I don't know why. Little Eddie Norton there. You like that shit. No, I don't. I know why. No, I don't at all. A little Derek.

Not at all. But I did not feel any guilt for what that kid did to the brother. I didn't feel any guilt from it. But I was like, man, that kid grew up in his environment. And he was, I was like, poor thing. He was just coming to see the light. And bam. Bam. Take a thing,

I'm Cal so helpful. Do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathen, Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds-fueling AI or crypto's trillion-dollar swings, there's a money side to every story.

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