Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Trump’s Latest Pardons. Plus, Ethical Nonmonogamy With Mandii B and WeezyWTF

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

Van and Rachel are back from the Memorial Day break to talk Trump’s "big, beautiful bill" (:48), Elon Musk's decision to officially leave the administration (2:40), the latest out of the Diddy trial (8:15) and Trump’s recent pardons (17:37). Then they give their reactions to Druski’s skit in whiteface (24:46) and have a conversation about conversations with RGIII (32:53), before they give some updates on the alpha dog King Charles (45:46). Finally, Mandii B and WeezyWTF of Decisions Decisions join to talk about the name change from Whoreible Decisions (58:32) and takeaways from their upcoming book, ‘No Holes Barred: A Dual Manifesto of Sexual Exploration and Power’ (1:07:37) Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Mandii B and WeezyWTF Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. It is I Van Lansing Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lenton. Later on in the show, we have Mandy and Weezy from Decisions, Decisions. They are friends and the authors of No Holes Barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. I feel like it was a great talk with the ladies.

I learned some stuff. And we do not want you guys to miss that. That's in the second hour of the show. We don't have that much time for pleasantries. No, we don't because we're a big show. We have a big show. And we do a lot of pleasantries with the ladies. With the ladies.

Okay. So, Donnie, fuck it. Let's get right into quick hitters right now. Quick. All right, let's do it quickly. The House passed Trump's domestic policy bill last week. The bill is now headed to the Senate where there are some who oppose it. So it faces some opposition.

But the legislation, which is dubbed the one big, beautiful. Bill Act addressed the president's tax defense and some energy priorities, including some measures that would deeply cut into Medicaid and food stamps while also making permanent, essentially all of the trillions of dollars of individual income tax breaks. Thoughts? A couple of thoughts. One is I've seen the GOP leadership do the rounds on this. They're lying.

And a lot of the things that they're talking about that are in this bill, particularly as it applies to Medicaid. They're talking about work requirements. They're talking about other ways that they're going to squeeze Medicaid. Same with SNAP. I am letting people know, particularly people in Louisiana

where Speaker Mike Johnson is from, that the aim of the administration is to cut or restrict access to Medicaid. And that is clear now. Okay? That's clear now. So there's a lot of things that we're going to talk about

in the coming weeks about this particular bill and what's in there. But I think the biggest outcome from this bill is the second part of this, Rachel, before we get to that, I wonder if you think the same thing. Wait, the outcome of the bill? The biggest thing that's happened from this is what the second part of this, which is really interesting to me. Is it because of the bill or is it because time is up?

Time is up and the bill. The bill, even if it's being used as a scapegoat, Donnie, what's to be on here? Give it to us, Donnie. Let's talk about it. Elon Musk is leaving. He's headed out. He posted his goodbyes on X.

And, yeah. He's time. Bye. Oh. We love it when Donnie gets into it. He's as thrilled as you. Wow. But we knew that this was happening.

He's been hinting. We knew that in, I thought it was, June, that his time was up for Doge and it was going to someone else. I think before maybe they talked about him prolonging that, but this was always, I mean, it was going to be, this was an end date that was set in mind, so, or set in motion. So I don't know, were you, you, you aren't shocked. Like, this isn't surprising or is the way, maybe I should say this, is it the way that, where he is now versus where he was, we'll say, at the start of the administration, the surprising part to you. Elon Musk is a special government employee.

So his time in office, I think, was going to be 120, 125 days or something like that. Maybe it's a little bit more. He posted on Twitter, as my scheduled time as a special government employee comes to an end, I would like to thank President Donald Trump for the opportunity to reduce wasteful spending. The Doge mission will only strengthen all. over time as it becomes a way of life throughout the government. Now, that is one thing. Another thing is Elon Musk on television criticizing this bill and saying that it would increase

deficit spending. Donnie, give us that. You know, I was, like, disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly, which increases the budget deficit, not just decrease it. and I reminds the work that the Doge team is doing. I actually thought that when this big, beautiful bill came along. I mean, like, everything he's done on Doge gets wiped out in the first year. I think a bill can be big or it can be beautiful.

But I don't know if it could be both. Interesting. It was interesting to me for a couple of reasons. Number one, Elon Musk has now retreated back to the private sector to try to rehabilitate his... Get his money back up. Right, to try to rehabilitate his image. as a businessman and make sure that those businesses are healthy, particularly Tesla, which is in the dog shit, toilet, daddy.

But also, him leaving is one thing, but him being a direct critic of such a big part of President Trump's agenda is a completely different thing. I mean, there's no secret that there have been reports come out, that he's at odds with several people in the administration, that it seems that the truth. Trump administration seems to be moving away from what it is he was designed to do, which was to cut cost, and they seem to be adding to it with these bills or other things that the

administration wants to do. So, I mean, but I think, forget all of that, in my opinion. I think the biggest motivating factor for him is he thought he was going to be revered and adored and praised for what it was that he was doing. I don't even think he cared about what he was doing. What he cared about was the admiration for it or the adoration, I should say, of it all. And when that didn't happen for him the way he thought and things started to turn, now he's starting to retreat, now he's starting to find fault, now he doesn't want to be involved in politics anymore. It's all really self-serving at the end of the day when it comes down to it.

And to your point, he's going back to getting his money up, to getting his business together, to trying to, I guess, rehabilitate his brand and what Elon Musk or the Musk name stood before he jumped into the ring with Trump and his administration. That to me is all this is at the end of the day. That was his purpose for getting into the administration. It's his purpose for coming out. It's over.

Thank God. Not enough. Elon Musk is who he is at this point. News for Elon. You cast your lot. You chose the wrong side or maybe the right side for you. And now

people will forever associate your name with this particular political movement. It's true. Ain't no way around it. Ain't no way out of it. Elon Musk, in my opinion, has ruined the Twitter.

He has ruined the Tesla brand. He's ruined even the perception of SpaceX. Anybody working with for or around Elon Musk at this time is working with someone that decided really quite peculiarly over the last couple of peculiarly. peculiarly

peculiarly over the last five years to become a right-wing Nazi propagandist. And so to me, there's no rehabilitating that. There's nothing that can get Elon Musk out of that. He's a joke almost.

And so it was an interesting choice from him and we'll see what remains. I mean, the guy's the richest fucking guy in the world. Ego's a real thing, though. Ego, like, it's, it was all to feed his ego. Yeah. And it didn't work. I guess we'll keep people updated on the big, beautiful bill.

It still has to go through the Senate. The Senate's probably going to make... A couple of changes. Yeah, changes, and it's got to go back. So we're kind of in this for the long haul, which is why there's no point in really, really digging into it. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling?

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Legal eagle time. Let's talk about the latest coming out of the Diddy trial. Yesterday, the judge in the case denied a request by the defense lawyers for a mistrial. They had argued that prosecutors had unfair. barely suggested that Diddy was responsible for the destruction of fingerprint evidence during the investigation of the Kid Cuddy car bombing. There's also been a couple of new witness testimony, both yesterday and today, a stylist and a personal assistant who said that they witnessed some assaults or were victims of

assaults themselves. Okay. So I got a... So Kid Cuddy testified, right? Yes. Talked a little about this. I was looking at some of the, you know, allegations that Kid Cuddy made in his testimony. Okay.

One allegation is that Diddy broke into his house, locked his dog in a bathroom, and opened up his Christmas gifts. Diabolical. Van. Van. He just had to say that. He just, he doesn't even care about reporting about what's going on with the Diddy trial. he just somehow wanted to get that point of the testimony. That's all he wanted.

That's all he wanted. What is wrong with you? Did Kid Cuddy laugh when he told the story? Thank God. Can you imagine if you were a juror? Can you imagine if you have been sitting in that jury box and hurt that testimony and just cackled? You would have been removed. You would have been the reason there had been a mistrial.

What's going on us? No, that's crazy. It's funny, but it's almost turning to the point where it's not funny because it's so diabolical. Yo. So I can see how some of this happened, right? You're coming to somebody's house. The dog's barking and a dog is making a lot of trouble, right? So you go, hey, put the...

And yo, put the dog in the bathroom. Put the dog in the bathroom. Put them in the bathroom. Cody, where you at? Where are you at? They open his nicarium. I love that that's how you saw it in your head. Bro, what's happening?

You guys, what's happening? What is going on? What do you mean? What do you mean? Like, do you guys ever step back and look at things that are happening and ask yourself, what's, are we living in the most absurd times? Like, what's going on?

I think the present is always the absurd time. I think whenever we're in the present, it is always the most absurd, absurd time. The crazy thing is, this happened years ago. We're reliving it. You see what I'm saying?

Like, in the present is always the craziest time. Always the craziest. It's like, you're right, because, like, I see some of the stuff that president, like Trump's whole Memorial Day message was nuts. It's like everything is nuts. There's like no one thing that is like serious or normal anymore. It's just weird.

Well, I don't want to make light of all the testimony in the dirty child. I know you're not. I'm sorry, guys. No, no, no, that shit is funny. No, it's funny. I just mean like, oh, that was a couple of days ago. We'd have Capricorn Clark's testimony. Capricorn Clark.

Which truly, I think maybe, I think people wanted to hear Cassie's testimony. out of obviously there were things that she linked, but there was also a curiosity because she filed the first lawsuit that got everybody that opened a can of worms of like, wow, this is who diddy really is. But Capricorn Clark, for prosecution purposes, is what is linking him to a lot of the underlying crimes for them to build their RICO case.

Because a lot of people, as we've talked about on this podcast, have questioned whether or not commercial sex trafficking, King is being proved, which I believe it is, but there are a lot of skeptics who are like, I don't think so. With her testimony, her detailed testimony, to your point about the Christmas gifts, about Kid Cuddy and that day and how they all were round up and went there and what they, and the purpose for it and the arson, that's a crime that's, you know. That's a predicate act for the entire week. Exactly. I think that when people- Oh, predicate act. Okay, Van.

I'm listening to. It is a predicate. kid act that shows that there was a pattern that shows that this is what he would do. The arson, the kidnapping. They're saying Cassie being what we saw in the video at the Intercontinental, terrible for their branding. What we saw at the video at the Intercontinental, that could be argued as kidnapping. Capricorn Clark testifies she was kidnapped. Kidnapping.

We already have commercial sex trafficking. Arson. I mean, her testimony, because she was with him for so many years and his right hand woman, links him to so many different things. That's been the testimony that to me that has been so beneficial for the prosecution. And even with the defense cross-examining, yeah, maybe they brought some things up

like, oh, he didn't hold you at gunpoint. She's like, no, he was waving his gun around me, but he had never done that before until he wanted to go after Cuddy. It didn't discredit anything that she said. She got away with saying a lot of stuff. Like, I thought he was going to kill me. He was going to do this.

That testimony wasn't always thrown out. It was allowed. So I think her, it's really not looking good against Diddy. Her testimony was very damning. And I think she came off empathetic, sympathetic, very believable. It's interesting in the coverage of the case. A lot of the legal experts that I see covering the case

in or on the various platforms I look at them on. A lot of those people are saying that things look bad for Diddy. Yeah. I'm wondering whether or not the legal experts, people who have such an intimate knowledge about what these crimes are and what these charges are. I wonder if they're in a different class of people than what their jurors are. Because when I hear a lot of normal, regular people talk about this, it seems as if they're having trouble

understanding things that the legal community understands so easily. Like how all of this stuff adds up to O'RICO, how all of this stuff adds up to racketeering. Like to me, the transportation for commercial cess acts, that's already been proven. You have testimony from male prostitutes that were flown. They already got him on that.

To me, they already have them, right? So, and even you can make an argument that even the sex trafficking has already been proven. The force, fraud, or coercion aspect of the sex trafficking has already been proven. And a lot of the legal people seem to believe that the RICO is pretty well proven now. But when you talk to people, just like average regular people, they go, did he was a freak? Did he was controlling? Did he was abusive? but this ain't no RICO.

So I think what happens here is the people that you're talking to are reading headlines. A lot of the headlines are salacious. And there are headlines that saying, you know, Kid Cuddy's testimony about arson proves predicate acts, you know, as the foundation for the RICO charge.

That's not a headline that these people are reading. In law they teach you, or as a litigator, that you win the case with the jury in void dire, or Voidier, I'm from Texas, so I say voidire, which is jury selection, and opening statements. Right. And someone maybe argue closing statements. So that, yes, there's going to be weeks and weeks of testimony.

But a jury really hangs on as lay people to the things you say of what the case is supposed to prove and on the other side what they don't prove. And then at the end, linking everything together with the charges, which should be the prosecution side and the defense saying they didn't prove it. What they proved is that he was this diabolical, you know, freak or whatever. That's, that's really what they're going to hold on to. Yes, they will pay attention to the testimony. I'm not saying that. But they always taught us that that's how you win it to your point of being a layperson, because it's a lot of information. And then they have to read a jury charge, which can be very confusing and check certain things.

But it's really the beginning in the end. And that's the lawyer's job to prove or show that they did not prove what is necessary. We'll say it. Donnie? All right. Let's stay in this legal lane and talk about some of Trump's pardons that happened recently. Among them was one for NBA young boy who pled guilty in December to possessing weapons as a felon. And this pardon ends more than five years of legal trouble, including some federal weapons charges that went across three states. And one little factoid about this case. One of his lawyers drew fineling actually to defend.

defendant President Trump and the Georgia election interference case. So the more you know. I mean, like, I don't, I mean, I mean, Trump is offering pardons to people. Maybe you could argue that's different with Larry Hoover. But I think, I mean, NBA young boy has announced that he's going on tour and he's calling it Make America

smile again. Okay. You know, so I, with the Chris Leys and the NBA young boys and some of the other people, who have been pardoned, it's just very clear that he's giving pardons to people, not who have maybe changed their lives

in prison, who have served time, who have said, I'm no longer that person anymore, which I, you know, or I've been in their jail for 50 years, like a Larry Hoover, who's still going to have to go, you know, to stay prison, which is over 100 years. But I guess the hope is that he'll get

transferred from where he is now. But it's all people who are going to show their loyalty to him. And that seems to be, you know, the basis that Trump is using to pardon people. Basically, do you bend the knee? Are you showing your loyalty to me? That's really all that he cares about.

That's what, I mean, that's really all I have to say about this. That's the only rhyme or reason to me. So two things here. A lot of people are going to ask a lot of questions about Larry Hoover. I will say straight up, if you are not from Chicago or don't have any understanding into Chicago culture, you should probably stay out of that one. The Larry Hoover situation is Chicago business. It is.

It's Chicago. No, I'm just laughing because you in Chicago. I love Chicago. But the Larry Hoover situation is Chicago business. That is somebody that the community or communities, selected communities, I can't speak for everybody in Chicago, have a very intense and intimate dedication to for all kinds of reasons. If you stand back and look at a bunch of charges, then you're going to be like, oh, my God, who is this person? But if you talk to people from around there, they have a different view of him.

I'm not speaking for everyone. I'm talking about the people that I've talked to. They're going to look at him in a different way, and they're going to say that he has a whole different significance to the city of Chicago that anybody that's not from there can't really see. Sure. All right. NBA young boy, obviously we know who a young boy is, rapper from my hometown.

From your, yeah, yeah. For my hometown. So look, if any of these people's families or people in their community want to be happy

that Trump has part in them, if you want to be happy that Larry Hoover is being moved out of Supermax, that's one thing. But I'll say something else. And this reminded me of a situation at TMZ. So at TMZ, a lot of people used to complain

about not getting, raising raises and not getting their vacations signed off on. It was very funny situation. I know one guy who actually blocked the producers of TMZ who blocked like Harvey and Charles and Evan so that they couldn't see when he was out of time. You know what I mean? I just remember Evan, my man.

Evan, my man, just like, Evan was a cool guy, is a cool guy. It kind of pissed him off that the dude would do that. right. But it was because sometimes you would maybe have to say that you were taking a day or something like that. Sure, we've all done it. And go to Vegas. Okay, cool. But like, you know, people would complain about stuff at TMZ. They would complain about all of this stuff. And

they didn't get their vacations and their raises. What they got was treats on Thursday. So on Thursday at TMZ, they would bring out treats. They would, it would be a different treat every Thursday. You get a little bun cake. Everybody will go to the little break room and get a little bunk cake, come back with a little bunk cake. Or they had mitis one day or popcorn one day. It's little treats.

Little treats on Thursday they would give it. Or they would give you free food Friday. So on Friday they would give you lunch. Okay. Right now you've asked for all of these things as an employee, but they would give you treats on Thursday. Extra used to do stuff like that. And then free food Friday on Friday. Right. And everybody would be so happy and stuff like that. And I'll be like in the office going,

ha, y'all don't take your eye off the ball. This is not what y'all asked for. Y'all did not ask for treats on Thursday and free food on Friday. Y'all ask for y'all vacation days to be able to go see y'all and y'all people and y'all ask for raises and all of that stuff. It's not what y'all asked for. It might be good, but it's not what y'all asked for. If you are somebody living in America, particularly a black American, the release of Larry Hoover and NBA young boy is not what you asked for.

Correct. I am happy for the families of these people and anyone in these various communities that is rejoicing because of what happened. And that goes for anyone. That goes for the Michael Harris's, and that goes for the Kodak blacks, and that goes for the Little Wains,

all of the people who are thrilled because this person is let out of jail, I am happy for you. You have a right to be happy about that. But for everybody else that is going to look at Donald Trump as some sort of freedom fighter

because he let these two gentlemen or commuted their sentences or did whatever, that has nothing to do with you. The thing that is, that you are asking for don't have anything to do with who Donald Trump can pardon from federal prison. You're asking for your Medicaid. You're asking for your history to be taught in schools.

You're asking for the benefits and environmental justice for your people. You're asking for your reparations. You're asking for equal protection under the law and your voting rights. That is what you are asking for. Right. Not for anybody's sentence to be commuted out of federal prison. All right? So there's going to be a bunch of y'all that's going to be like, Trump cool, he let young boy out of jail, man.

Of course. Happy for young boy, his family, anybody that love him. But that is not what you are asking for. Not what you are asking for. All right. What else we got? This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission.

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Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Let's go Drewski real quick. All right, cool.

Drewski posted this video over the weekend. Out of it. The caption of it was White Boyd that's accepted by the hood. and let me play a little snippet of it. In the video, though, he is in white face, and I think it is pretty funny. Tell him on.

The jet right hill, man. I'm ready to jet right here, man. See, I grew up with my grandma. Yeah. She, folks always tell me, like, you're white boy. You can't be doing all that. I grew up on that side. On that side, yeah.

But I would raid, I was raid by these folks. Did y'all see it? What did y'all think of the skit? What was the white boy in your neighborhood's name? Jared and Aaron. Frosty. Two brothers, yeah. Ours is frosting.

Yeah. We all have one. Yeah. I mean, wait, I thought we were going to talk about the response. Talk about the response, yeah. What the other video, with the guy putting up the video. Well, I mean, white face, this guy felt like, play the video. Play the video.

Yeah, yeah. Y'all, somebody Find Drewski felt me. Somebody tag Drewski. One thing you can't do, Drewski, that little white boy skit was cool.

It ain't lying, but one thing you can't do and something white white is you ain't gonna never run off the block. I'm gonna keep a G-wis. All right, Donnie. All right, Donnie. Well, this guy's saying he's a white white guy.

That's the part. He looks like he's about 40 years old. 40. He's older? Yeah. The man looked like. Like he was 53. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He had the whole ball and the beard. He sounded just like Paul Wall. It's the white YN. That's, I mean, that's where it starts and ends for me. The fact that you think that you can call, like, it's one thing. Listen, you name your guys brothers. I named my friend Frosty. There's always a white person who grew up or was around black people that everyone was like, he's cool, he's accepted.

But to me, what is never accepted is if you think you're so much one of us that you think, you have our same struggles and you think that you can use the N-word. I don't care if he said Y-N. The fact that you said white Y-N is wild to me. To me at that point, anybody who's hanging around him needs to let him go. What do you think about the white face argument? Are people mad about that? Yeah.

I think that's just people looking for a reason. Same thing like with people get mad about white chicks. That's people just looking for a reason to be mad that they can't do blackface. It's always like a, well, y'all get to do. it, why can't we do it? Obviously, there's no deep-rooted history with white face. It is not racist. He's playing a character.

It's a skit. It's funny. I have no problems with it. I don't think he did anything offensive. And, yeah, I'm always going to stand by white face being fine. Whiteface isn't a real thing. It's not a real thing. The sole is just the guy.

See, people don't understand. You have to pay an emission price of pain. Correct. to get into some of these demusement parks. Like, black people have paid an admission price for telling you guys not to do blackface. And that price was a bunch of pain, a bunch of lynching,

a bunch of killing, and a bunch of dehumanization. There was a price paid for us to be like, we don't like that. Sure. We didn't just wake up one day and be like, hey, we don't like when y'all plays us. We said, hey, there's a lot.

long history of this, maybe we should stop this because there's not a cultural trust there. Like, the white face thing falls on deaf ears because the only reason why you are saying that you don't like white face is like Rachel said, is because you don't like that. We say that you don't do

you shouldn't be able to do blackface. Right, right. So if it's... I mean, white face does exist. You have like a Sammy Sosa. Yeah, Sammy Sosa. Which is who truth is people like, no way. I think Sammy's back. How did he come back? How did he revert? Does it fade? Hold on for a second.

I think Sammy back, bro. I think we got Sammy back. I was happy about that. Not us getting him back. Sammy. Sosa back. Sosa recent. Yeah.

No, that's a comparison. Oh, wait. No, am I tripping? Do I just Sammy Sosa? I think Sammy, Donnie, look this up. Is Sammy Sosa back? I'm looking it up. I feel like there is evidence of his skin getting darker.

There's evidence. So he got to. He got a tan from his white face? Nah, look, Sammy back. Click it. We got, look, we got Sammy back. I need proof. This is coming from TikTok, so I won't prove.

I saw this somewhere. I'm not doubting you. I just want to know. And I want to know how. Okay, I'm posting. Was it always, was it just like a phase to see how people would respond? I'm not seeing. That looks like an in-between Sammy right there.

Yeah, this guy right here? Yeah, he looks in between. He looks like he tanned. I think we might have got Sammy back. Look what it used to be. This is a picture from March 1st of this year and it's darker. That's a tan. Oh, no, we got Sammy back.

Sammy back. But can I be honest? Why can't you just let Sammy? We got Sammy. I don't think he came back willingly. It must have faded off. Give it six more months. Why are you?

Why are you turning this thought of me? Sammy literally bleached his skin to become something he is not. You have. The deep hatred. Oh, I feel so sorry for people who hate themselves that much. I can bring up other people who you don't seem to have a problem with. Who? Bring it up.

No, I'm not going to bring it up. I'm not going to bring it up. But I'm telling you that Sammy came back. Okay? I was born in 1985. I'm telling you. When I was born, that is what Michael looked like. I'm telling you, Sammy came back.

Michael from the bad album. That's the only Michael I knew. Now, a lot of people say that Michael, you know, a lot of people say. Michael had Vidaligo, and a lot of people say that that's right. Michael, thank you.

Thank you so much for bringing that up. But there's other people who, what I'm saying is, though, Sammy, you got to give, Rachel, you got to give Grace, you got to give Sammy,

make sure y'all put this picture up of Sammy. Put it here. You got to give Sammy credit that Sammy came back. I think it's- Apparently, though, the bleaching creams aren't permanent. See?

I think it faded. He was in between creams. Okay. In between creams. Okay. Can I say something no? Can I say something no? Wow, the fact that you didn't just.

In between creams? It is true. Rachel got you on it. But can I say something though? Maybe it was a conscious decision to stop using the cream. Maybe Sammy was like, I can't do this no more. I got to be, he went through a phase.

It probably, the cream was probably discontinued. Let's just be honest. Why do you so? Because he went to such great lengths to not be black. We don't want you anymore. Oh my God! He didn't want to be with us. So you're saying that Sammy could never come back.

He didn't want to. Did he have Vidaligo? Did he? Did he? You came back home? I did not turn white. You did not turn white, but you went to the- Wow, so Vang just said I lost my blackness because I'm not saying that at all.

Because I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is I never left. You have said, though, you came back home to dating. To dating. But I never lost my body. Blackness. I never wasn't black. Is there a something? You never weren't. And I'm coming home. That's not like I'm changing a feature.

I'm not trying to add in physically. But there are some people mentally or emotionally make myself different. What I'm telling you is that there are some people who would be fucked up and bad and say, hey, stay over there forever since you went there. And I'm against those people. You can come back home again. You can come back home again. How do you think I got over there in the first place? I'm just kidding. Oh my God. I'm just kidding. I'm not one of those. Sammy.

I was trying something to do. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I got to tell you something real quick before I get to this Angel Reese thing. What? I had a very interesting conversation yesterday. Oh, Lord. It better not have been about me. No. Okay. The way you were saying it, I was like,

what does somebody say? No, I had an interesting conversation with RG3 on the phone. That doesn't surprise me at all. About an hour. That doesn't surprise me at all. It's the equivalent to like an Emmanuel Ocho calling you. No, he didn't call me. I looked for his number and I called him.

Or that. I just, that doesn't shock me. What doesn't shock me? Well, he picked up the phone and had a conversation with you. Yeah. Okay. So let me tell you why I had this conversation. And I think that it's important for people to hear this.

Because I tell you why. So I saw RG3 post something yesterday. And I was getting ready to bomb on him. Right? I saw him post something. I was getting ready to bomb on him. You know what I thought to myself? I thought, if it's worth me,

like bombing on him and continuously bombing on this guy is worth me picking up the phone to actually have a conversation with him since I know that I can do that. There are a bunch of people out there who see something that somebody has tweeted and can't get that person on the phone to actually talk to them. I'm not one of those people. Most people, if I want to get to them, not everybody, but most people, if I want to get to them, I can get to them.

And I am legitimately, and if you guys don't believe anything else that I say, believe this, I'm legitimately uninterested in just being a cultural hall monitor and continuously insulting people and critiquing people just for the sake of this platform or any other platform. I'm uninterested in that. What I'm interested in, sincerely, is cultural, understanding and the empowerment of black culture

and really in a humanistic way the empowerment of people. I'm really interested in that. So what did you learn? A lot. We have to talk more. But what I think the most important thing to do

was analyze some things about him and then analyze some things about myself. One thing about myself is I am race obsessed, right? and I'll never change. Is he? I didn't get the guy's whole life story from one phone call, but I can tell you that there's a reason why.

Here's that way. There's a reason why I am that way. My view of justice, my view of justice comes from the perspective I was given as a kid. I view justice in the fight for human rights as a struggle of blacks in America against oppression. Because of everything that I saw when I was a kid. And that's my purview. My purview of how people get what they want, how America becomes a just and equitable society,

is in my mind how black people get justice and equity in America. So you're a better person than me. and I would not have, and I say it both ways. I don't know what he posted that incited some sort of reaction of you where you wanted to say something and then instead of that you turned it into, let me just have a phone conversation for better understanding. Kudos to you. I'm indifferent.

I didn't see it, but if I saw it, I would not have written anything about it. I wouldn't have retweeted it. I wouldn't have reposted it. nor would I have wanted to call him for understanding. I simply don't care. And I'm not saying, and I think, if I'm honest, I think that makes you better in the situation. I think it's great that you cared enough

to want to understand somebody that you maybe don't understand from what you've seen on television or from their social media activity or for their responses and situations like we've just been talking about. I don't care. I do care.

I would have cared to have the conversation on the podcast where everybody could have heard it and then I wouldn't have, you know, it's not really my style of my style like go at and be combative for the state of clicks to go viral. I would have asked questions and tried to have that understanding for an audience. I would have cared more about that

than I would have for myself to understand why he responds the way he does or why he is the way he does. So I mean, kudos to you for that. I don't care. I don't, I care for the sake of conversation. When I say I don't care, some people are like, then why do y'all talk about them on the podcast? It's a cultural conversation, right?

It's, I'm not saying he is this person, but it was the same talking about like, freaking fuck or whatever their names were. We talked about them because of what they were doing and it was becoming a cultural conversation and it was bigger than who they wore. That I care about. Same thing, what was happening with RG3 and Ryan. It was a bigger conversation that became cultural. But as far as he's concerned, I don't care enough unless we're going to have that same conversation between us and for our audience.

I'm interested in going on this podcast and having the conversation. That makes sense too. But I think the reason why I care is because we all cast people into roles, right? And it happens to us. For sure. It happens to other people. We all cast people into roles. And we all say that this person is a customer.

cultural enemy or has ceded their cultural power for some type of game, right? And it's a very deliberate thing that we say that people are doing for whatever reason. For me, I'm always interested in the experiences of people and how those experiences play out or influence, should I say, how those people see the world. Like, I'm able to say, hey, I was raised in a place by a group of people who wanted me to understand

how important it was to be black. The power that was in being black, the vulnerability that was in being black, but more to the point like what my life meant. Rest and peace of one of my uncles. One of my uncles, an older guy in the family

used to make me read. He used to give me stuff and make me read it. And I thought he was like, like fucking with me, messing around with me or, I don't know, it was just embarrassing. I'm six, seven, eight years old and I'm being asked to read something, right? Or my dad tells me he goes,

because I'm pouting about it because I didn't know what was happening and my dad pulls me to the side and he goes, well, you know, your uncle can't read too good. So when he sees that you can read, it blows his mind. He's proud of you. And he's making you read stuff in front of people.

He just cannot see like a seven-year-old kid that's reading on a 12th grade level. It's just, it's amazing to him. And that's like something that he really cherishes. And all of the little stories like that open my eyes up to what it meant to be a black person in South Louisiana, what it meant to be one of my ancestors and how and what my role in taking that further is.

So I see everything like that. I see it in everything. Doesn't matter. Doesn't mean that I'm going around like taking people apart at all times. I don't want to think about this stuff all the time too, but just that experience and the experience of watching that struggle, the experience of looking at my family and then looking at the other families of white kids

in my community and going, damn, why they don't have running water? Why do they have it? Why do they live so long? Why do we not? Why is all of these people? I remember just asking, why isn't the governor black? Like, why don't we have these things? Like, what's the story there? And so there might be a lot of people who would say,

well, Van, you know, your life, is less so or you're carrying a burden because of that. But I don't feel that way at all. This is how I orient my American experience around being a black man. I don't feel that way at all. So I'm just interested in what makes, if somebody is on the opposite of that, I'm interested in how they either avoided it or whether or not there's something that they're not paying attention to. And I'm also interested in doing a self-scout and going, okay,

Like, why am I like this? Like, what's going on? Can I ask you that when you have those kind of conversations and we'll use RG3, are you just looking for understanding or within it? Are you also maybe looking to convince them or help them see things in a different way than they do? Or is it purely just like research purposes? Because it would be, and I ask you this because it would be hard for me. Let's just say I did have the empathy.

or the curiosity to understand why you say these things that you do. I think because I'm so strongly in how I am, it would be hard for me not to start doing things like telling them why that's wrong or why that. So I'm saying, do you, and are you really just listening, plan to just listen or do you plan to kind of like debate, go back forward? Well, it's not about necessarily a debate, but it's about pointing out why I disagree and why I feel the way that I feel. Not trying to prove, trying to get them to change their mind.

No, but here's the thing, though, if that's the case, then what I would wonder is why we talk about anything at all. Because if we're on the podcast and our entire job on this podcast is to preach to the choir so that we get likes and views and get people agreeing with us and telling us how great we are, then this is one of the most masturbatory acts that you can actually engage in, right? I come here and I sit down and I go out into the world understanding that not everybody agrees with many different parts of my existence. But the point is not to necessarily it's not to validate my existence, but it is to give a perspective and an experience that I hope will change or influence someone

to see why I view the world in the way that I do. Yeah. So that at least if we come to a point of disagreement, we can disagree respectfully. I truly and honestly do not want to disrespect people. I do not want to be to sit on high and be like a judge and a jury and a cultural hall monitor, as I say, for people. I don't want to do that.

But, you know, when somebody is doing something I think is harmful or weak, it's difficult for me not to point it out. But it's only, I only want that to be nutritious. I want it to matter. And I want people to feel like, um, their lives are better off.

And I want the whole experience of this thing to be better off because like we're doing this. And so I don't know. It was a, it was an interesting combo and I, you know, thanks for taking one for the team. It's something else, man.

I hope to talk to him more. Or anybody. If you got to, you know, you disagree with me, we can talk about it. Whatever. Okay. I have something to say real quick. And I'm wondering what you're going to think about this. Okay.

Okay. You're on a roll. Actually, I'm going to save this. Okay. Save it. Donnie, I'm going to save this part of it. Okay. On Monday's show, I'm going to tease this.

On Monday's show, I'm going to compare two athletes. and how I feel like they are being treated. Angel Reese and Shador Sanders. Okay. I'm going to compare them. Are we going to get a like a Venn diagram type situation? That would be great. I might have to bring up the whiteboard.

Yeah. Bring up the whiteboard. Angel Reese and Shadour Sanders. I'm going to compare them and how I feel like they're being treated. But I have to talk about somebody. real quick that I feel like is very important. And that is King Charles. Okay.

You guys, I am more into King Charles. King Charles is the name of the alpha dog that we talked about the last time we were recording. Rachel, have you gotten to the lure of King Charles at all? The amount of videos that people have been sending me, based off of what you posted. Yeah. It's, I'm getting inundated with. I can't even watch anymore.

But it's, it's not just the act of what he's doing. It's the narration. Yeah, yeah. It's deep. So I want to tell a new story about King Charles that I think is, is actually even almost more impressive.

Okay. Than what we talked about before. You guys, King Charles has done something that I never thought could happen. He is now, he's like on the same level as P-22. Oh, for you? For me.

Oh, wow. He's on the same level of P-22. I fucking love animals. And I love King Charles. And more than the point, I love what he stands for. So King Charles, as we saw, he was, he's the alpha of his pack. Now, apparently what's going on here is there is an animal shelter of some sort. And it's in China.

Oh, this is in China? I think it's in China. It looks like an animal shelter, though. And so there is a hierarchy here with this animal shelter. and King Charles, who wasn't always the alpha, is the alpha of this shelter. He keeps everybody else in line. These dogs are rough and tumble.

Okay, these aren't Bozeman's and brownies and coppers. These are rough and tumble dogs, right? Who really are running around there with their own sort of purview and their own autonomy. They got their own little society, a dog society. I love it. Something happened recently. with King Charles.

I think I thought I saw. There's been a couple of challenges to his throne. I saw. One he put down, the first challenger was tyrant. Tyrant is a big lab-looking motherfucker.

And tyrant was coming at King Charles. Almost made King Charles retreat a little bit, right? Trying to get to King Charles, trying to fuck over King Charles, trying to take King Charles's kingdom. Mm-hmm.

But what is said in the wire? I don't know. You come at the king, you bet not miss. Tyrant missed. King Charles retained his throne, but he wasn't the only challenger. There's another challenger, and this story is mind-blowing. This is like something out of Shakespeare. Rocky tried the same move as King Charles.

With the throat. With the throat. He tried it on another dog, right? King Charles is out dealing with the challenge from Tyrant, dealing with different things. Rocky is trying to get on top of other dogs and supplant them one by one in order to kind of take the kingdom over

when King Charles isn't paying attention. Rocky's a sneaky motherfucker. That's the thing about Rocky. Rocky's a sneaky. That's the thing about Rocky. All right. Donnie, go to Rocky real quick. Show what Rocky's trying to do.

Now, that's King Charles' move right there, the throat stand. That's his patented move. We call it the throat stand here on Higher Learning. King Charles gets on you. Look at Rocky. Rocky's trying the same move. He's trying to throat stand right there. And he's doing this because if he can throat stand enough dogs,

then he can take over for King Charles. He's usurping King Charles. There's Rocky. There's Rocky on him. Stop it right there. trying to make a dominance play. King Charles, as we see right here, he keeps what's going on.

Right. I would say follow at Alpha Dog King Charles on Twitter who uploaded this video. King Charles then tries to do the throat stand on Rocky, but Rocky isn't submitting. His head is down. Yeah. But he's not submitting.

This is fucking amazing. He's not submitting to King Charles's will at all. Then, Donnie, move forward. Rocky fucking snuck King Charles. What the shit? Rocky later on ends up sneaking King Charles and hurting him. Donnie, go to this point right here. I don't like, I don't like.

Look at the king! I saw this video. Look at the king. Look at his paw. His paw is hurt. Rocky got to the king. He thought that in sneaking King Charles when he wasn't looking, that he would be able to take over the kingdom.

Look at the other dogs comforting him. They're all coming around. That's what Rocky doesn't understand. That's the difference between King Charles and these other dogs, Rachel. It's not just about fighting. Anybody can just fight. But can you be a leader of men?

Can you inspire other dogs? Can you have a royal court that maybe when you get attacked has your back? That's what people think. People think that the strength is in the dog, dog. No, King Charles knows that the strength is in the what? The pack.

And the pack came to his back. The royal court of King Charles got his back and supplanted Rocky's threat to the throne. Donnie, show it. Look at the royal court. They're taking care of King Charles and then

boom! Look! And they're barking. Barking. And now look what's happening. The throat stand happens to Rocky. Rocky cannot fucking overcome King Charles's charisma, King Charles's loyalty that he asked from his pact. I'm looking at leaders, man. I got to be honest with you.

If I'm looking at leaders, it's Optimus Prime. Okay, do you know who that is? Does the Leader of Al-A-Bat-I? Yes, I know who Optimus Prime is. I've seen Transformers. Okay, it's Optimus Prime. It's Captain America. All right.

Barack Obama and King Charles. If I'm making a list of leaders, Optimus Prime, all right? Captain America, Barack Obama, King Charles Tachala. Those are the five. I was so waiting for you to bring Black Panther in. Those are the five leaders.

It doesn't bother you. The story's not over. Oh. Rocky and King Charles are brothers. I mean Mufus and Scar Yeah It's rumored

They don't look anything like By the way They got different daddies They're different moms Have the same mom That they come From the same This is a rumor

Live Donnie Doesn't not say that Rocky and King Charles are brothers They're brothers They're brothers Scar tried to take the throne

Rocky is Scar Rocky is Scar for sure Yeah. That's a new development I was not aware. It's a shocking. It's a shocking development. Love that there are rumors and there's mess in the middle of this kingdom. But doesn't it bother you?

I was disturbed by watching Rocky and King Charles fight. Yeah. I was like, why are they just recording them and letting this happen? What if somebody gets hurt? And then boom, as I watched it, King Charles got hurt. Could have been worse. So this is what I would say to that. Because it felt a bit like animal cruelty.

This is what I would say to that. Also how they live in. Looks like animal cruelty, but, you know. This is what I would say to that. Nature is cruel. This isn't nature. It is. Nature is persisting.

Nature is cruel. I think that there are lessons in the life of King Charles, as I've been looking at his life. He's a dog that came up. He wasn't groomed for leadership. He wasn't the type of dog that the owner said, hey, you're going to be the alpha. he was a dog that through bravery and through persistence, their videos on the channel

of King Charles not being the alpha. Tyrant was the alpha at one point apparently. King Charles was able to get the dogs to rally behind him and through his bravery and his charisma, he is now the alpha of the entire pack. I find inspiration in that. I think...

There is inspiration in it, but let's not say this is nature. They're being kept there. Can't be honest with you. Can I ask a question. And I don't mean this to sound sexist because we're about to talk to the ladies from horrible...

Excuse me, from decisions about their brand new book. No holds barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration of power. Like, what, what, why? Why is it... Why do you want to ruin everything? Wow, that is sexist.

I was just, no, I'm very, I'm very much. Be a bro for one second. I'm going to let you have your sexist moment, because that's all this is right now. I'm not, I'm just saying it bothered me to see, I've been, I've been concerned with how they were living. It looks, I knew it was a shelter, but I've been concerned.

King Charles looks like he needs a bath. He looks, they look like they're just, like they're not being kept, fed, cared after they look. cold. That's the animal lover in me. Excuse me. But then when I saw them going at each other with a camera in their face, I'm sorry that I couldn't help but wonder, is somebody going to get hurt? And then what happened? King Charles was injured. Now, am I glad he's okay? I think there's beautiful lesson in it. I agree with everything you said. I'm just pointing out things that bothered me.

Donnie, Ashley, are you not noticing the circumstances that they're living in? They do seem to be a bit. disturbing. There can be, right? Yeah, it's one of the first things I noticed. It's super dusty. And I asked for the man's opinion because Vans being sexist over here, but I just wanted to point out, I am not, this isn't a man-woman thing. It is.

This is just an observation. You know what? It's so weird as men. As soon as we find something that inspires us and moves us, I just come in and fuck over it. Why? What is that? What is that thing? It's made up in your head is what it is.

It's your imagination is what it is. As soon as I get on. It's your imagination. Anything that we do, like you're on the game, you're playing the game. You know what? I'm not going to do this. But you already have. It's not about me.

It's about King Charles. King Charles is a dog that is one of the five greatest leaders in culture right now. I love them. No, you don't. I don't love the owners. Okay. And the reality is that I'll continue to watch. You know what?

I'll continue to be a part of King Charles's mythology. I can make an argument that the part of the reason the way King Charles is is because he's had to fight because of the circumstances that he's living in. Right. You have to fight.

Because he's living in such dire circumstances. I want to let y'all know something. We're about to go. There ain't going to be nobody to protect you all the time. All right? Sometimes you're going to have to get it out the mud. Sometimes you're going to have to get it

out the mud. Out the concrete, out the doghouse. You're going to have to make other people rally to your cars. You're going to have to call people and make people believe in what you believe in. You have to get on the phone with them. You're going to have to all types of shit.

It's not going to be given to you. Sometimes it's going to be dangerous. And that's what fucking King Charles is about. It's Danger Dogs Kingdom over in China, and I'm fucking with it. Okay, well, let's step out the Manosphere and talk about the lovely ladies that we have coming on the podcast.

We are both very excited for the conversation that we're about to have. I know you guys are too. The book. No holes, BARD. Manzi and Weezy, WTF coming on the podcast to talk about their book, to talk about themselves, to talk about changes in their platform, to talk about sex, to talk about relationships, to talk about love.

It's a really interesting conversation, really deep, really beautiful. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur.

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Visit weathertech.com today. We have special guests on higher learning, the hosts of decisions, decisions previously known as horrible decisions. Yes. Which is the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Is that what our PR team put? Yeah, that's what they're saying over. Love that. They have co-written a book called No Holds Bards, a dual holes.

I said holes. Okay. Holes. What did I? I thought you said holes. No, holds. Oh, I was like, let's go. I thought you said Hose.

No Holes, barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. How are you ladies here? By the way, y'all have the advanced reader copies. It comes out June 24. It comes out June 24. Yes. June 24. Why a book?

Oh. Charlemagne said. I'm just kidding. Yeah, no, I mean, I think, to be honest, we've been doing this now eight years, which I don't think many people in this space can say. I mean, I think it's hard to do anything for eight years, unless you're raising a child,

then they keep growing and you've got to be a parent for longer than that. But staying in something for that long, growing in front of an audience, growing as a person. I know, like, who I was at 26 is not who I am at 34, who I was yesterday, ain't who I am today. But yeah, Charlemagne can. came to us back in like 2021.

He has a black privilege publishing and was like, he loves and supports what we do and was like, I think it's time for y'all to write a book. It did take us a while to get on the same page on what we would put in the book, but we definitely saw that the book was the next acceleration and peace and extension. People who we are and know it's very hard for us to cross over. I don't know why that is. A lot of black podcasts, it's hard.

But specifically, black girls talk about sex, salacious, It's not the Shan Booty Way. You know, Shan told us one time, you guys are nighttime. I'm daytime. And that was with no shade. She was just saying, like, sometimes when an audience is ready to receive.

And I think what was dope about the book that started hitting me halfway, the book isn't, I love the podcast, let me read about Mandy and Weezy. Sure, that exists, but it's like someone that doesn't know us can now love these stories.

The person that may have not have clicked on our YouTube because of how we look or just not wanting to fuck with it or not caring, that book made these. stories relevant in this way. Because I think in podcast format sometimes, hearing like, bitch, I was fucking this nigga.

They're like, too much. In the podcast, it's different. And it's different in the book. I think we only have two end words used in the whole book. Not sure how. Not sure how we got away with that. No, y'all are not co-switchers.

Not all. White people already complained about this book. But that's what I want to talk. I was reading about, like, you know, the name change of the podcast. And you said that if you, hadn't written a book, you probably wouldn't have changed the name of your podcast. Oh, no, that was coming.

You were going to change it. That was coming. There was a disconnect specifically for me, but also doing this eight years. There were brands. We were meeting the execs. They were fans of us. And they were like, we want to give you money. Brain won't allow it.

And so there was just like literally a fucking wall. I got to be honest with you guys, though. It's one of the all-time great podcast. Oh, the name is the best. It is. That's why I didn't go anywhere. I'm depressed. I feel like my dog died.

No, no, no, decisions are great, too. But I was reading that, too, about how you were having trouble with advertisers and, you know, in corporate. But then I thought about, but then call her daddy exists. No, I know. And I want you to talk about that because maybe the name isn't as salacious or whatever, but still, it's the same. It's a podcast that talks about sex and, you know, like sexual stories and freedom and it's women talking about it. Maybe horrible decisions was Alex Cooper and Sophia Frick. then they would do well, you know, with that name, instead of the name, call her daddy.

But no, I mean, I think time and time again we see Alex Cooper's business acumen is impressive. Yeah, not her interviewing skills. And I think a lot of people can attest to that. Her and Sophia were so cute and funny because they were being real girls. But I think I recently saw something, it was maybe Jane Fonda a clip, and I was like, wow. you know, and Kamala even, impressive. And then I'm watching this thing and I'm like, mid. That's a truth.

That's a truth that we all know. Sophia is also your friend. No, I don't really talk to her either. I genuinely don't think Mel Robbins is an impressive white woman. I don't think Alex Cooper is. However, I think, no, no, keep talking because this really, I really couldn't stop thinking about the comparison between the two. I don't agree, but I'm going to let.

No, but go ahead. Let me genuinely cook. You don't have to agree. Yeah. Alex Cooper's demographic is Gen Z. And that's her, when I watch some of the clips that I've seen, I've never watched a full pod, but the clips, I'm like, oh, this is a young thing. But when you have a Jane Fonda, Kamala Harris, you're expecting that type of interview style.

Like, you're sitting down with icons. So what I think happens is virality gets to happen with white people, and then they can be mediocre for the rest of the time. Alex and Sophia were dope. Some of those episodes I teared laughed at. And then after the Ascension, it's like, you don't really have to be that good. Because everyone's going to do your show anyway.

Once you have an audience and that audience is solidified, it's pretty durable, right? Once you have an audience of people that actually believe in what it is that you're doing, it's pretty durable. And so when the switch was made, it wasn't about, because Caller Daddy is a completely different podcast than it was before. Sure, sure. Now it's about celebrity interviews.

And it's more to see what the celebrity is going to say rather than it is to see what Alex is going to ask. But that's what, luckily, and that's to me where I would give her credit, a sports drink, being able to branch into TV, documentary. That's what you do when you've got all that fame. Sophia should have done that. I would tell Sophia that to her face. I like Sophia a lot. Sevilla is funnier than Alice. the brand is called Unwell

and that was Sophia's word She literally... Oh, wow. No, no, no, I mean, her thing for the pod. Sorry. I'm shady. I'm shady. But Mandy, you say booty hole so much on the pod.

If I started a brand called Bootyhole, they'd be like, but that was Mandy's thing. Booty, no, I say booed a hole. Whatever it is, girl. Unwell is literally a word. Sure, but the thing was popular with their fans because Sophia talked about how she called out of work, being fucked up, being like,

I'm Unwell, and they gagged about it. hold you. I hate even to, okay, now I'm just going to be shady. I hate to even talk about the two of them because it's very clear who's the winner and who's the loser of the two. Yes, but I, like, to even be mentioning her name right now, nobody talks about her anymore. So yes, all of that sucks. So what, though? That doesn't mean anything. Were you just going to forget? You guys, this is not an episode of this is possible. No, no, I don't like this context, though, because the fact that Alex Cooper is Alex Cooper is because Sophia was there. Who knows if Alex alone would have got us? And,

And that's why I never, that was what made me like Sophia. It wasn't Sophia herself. It's the underdog story of like, oh, wow, you really forgot the bitch that was lit on this show. Like, let's be real. If a fan told you- I'll tell you something now, I'll be honest with you. One of the coldest lines, and I'm not trying to get into these two niggas shit,

one of the coldest lines ever uttered by a rapper in a dispute was, I heard a nigger that said that he made hold. So, all right. Make another hope. Like, you know what I mean? Like, make another hope. And I was like, God. But was in a band where homes?

No, no. But what I'm saying is in this situation, by the way, and just so people know, you go, you do your podcast, you do your best to connect and resonate with your audience and other audiences. And a lot of times you just don't know why it works. sometimes there's a dynamic between two people, all of you guys, all our us, that people come back to, regardless of what it is that you're talking about because this energy is created.

What I will say is, you know, Alex's moving on just to get on, I don't know how we got on this, but Alex moving on. And being able to. Like, you should be doing, it should be. Oh, Branding. No, part of the conversation for Brandon. I'm saying, it's Alex moving on.

and Sophia being a little bit stagnant has got to be an indicator of something. I think it's an indicator of professionalism, business acumen, and having just that gust. We just talked about someone off mic who can't do that, but is famous and popular.

The fact that Alex can do that and Sophia can't does speak to how much better she is at being able to get shit done. Imagine if they both were doing that in separate places. I don't think... I don't want to keep talking about you. People can't self-stop.

Start. Why we talk about this time? Shit. Question for both of you guys. If there was one chapter in your book that people had to read, what would the chapter be? I know you guys wrote. You switched up chapters. Let's swap it then.

I'll say for yours, I think, what they got to read. Yeah. If there was one. No, let's speak for ourselves. Okay. Let's go ahead and podcast. So if there was one chapter that people had to read, which chapter would you say? Okay.

Well, I'm going to tell you for me what I think is important. and I do want to talk about my favorite chapter of Mandy's, because I think they're both really important. In our pain section, I really enjoy reading about a heartbreak of mine. Because I find that this heartbreak, it's called When Do You Know You Stay Too Long? Because we've all just stayed with someone like,

it's not really that great. I'm not really that happy. And even though I don't think it's the most well-written, it's not the sexiest. It's the one that I think people read this book and be like, this is my relationship. And towards the end, you're like, damn, you really just got to get up

and go. Being in a boring, just-okay relationship is easier than the breakup, telling everybody, moving out, starting over, going on dates when niggas who still ain't shit, bitches who still ain't shit, it's just tough. And then also in that pain chapter, because it's, pain is sexy too, Mandy talks about BDSM and exploring new things with her partner. And shit that's just wildest as fuck to hear black people talk about, electrocution, chastity cages, it's like, whoa, but I just love that pain has so much in there. I hate that I'm staying in the pain part as well because I think it's where I got deep. So trigger warning, my sexual assault chapter, I literally start off by feeling like I was

God's chosen for not experiencing sexual assault until I was 27. However, that's how the chapter starts. And then I go into actually two instances that I didn't realize were assault. One got put to the back of my head when I was seven years old just even came back because a detective called me. I share that story. It's one I've never shared on the pod. And then I talk about being stealth,

which we just went on Kevin stage and seeing how many women in the chat were like, oh, there's a word for this. This has happened to me. Holy shit, I've experienced sexual assault and didn't even know that it was. And if you don't know what stealthing is and you're listening,

it's when someone removes a condom during sex, unknowingly where you both were under the assumption that a condom would be used. Sometimes women don't know they can be turned. You know, it's interesting about that is I find it interesting the evolution of just societal intellect. Language. Language. Or just how smart we are about things. Yes.

Because there was a time when that was joked about in a way and talking. and talked about in a way that was so unsurious. On a huge platform. You didn't even know it. But like, I'm talking about, I'm talking about on a platform and just in culture amongst you,

I take that bitch right off and there's a laugh. And at that particular time, I know it feels like this is impossible to believe. But I don't think anyone understood. We did not understand. exactly what you were saying that you did. So I think that that's the thing, too. Linguish.

Consent is not like, you don't understand too. And then they'll gaslight you and be like, but it was feeling so good. I had to. But they knew what they were doing. No, no, no, no, no, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. They didn't know what they were doing.

They didn't deem it as a salt. They didn't realize the actual offense was as serious as what it was. It's now a crime. There's another country that has made it a crime, I believe even the state of California has now been able to criminalize someone doing that act. Is that language or have women just become more vocal about how we've been treated? Right.

Now women, like, think about, we couldn't have what, was it credit cards in the 70, up until the 70s? 72? 74. 74. So, like, when you think about things like that, maybe they're just honoring women in a different way. Patriarchal notions of how women should be treated, being quiet, not caring, not listening. That's changing. I think we're also talking to each other more, right?

Like, you didn't know what that was or, you know, like, I might have gone through that and not know what it was. And then you don't know how to talk to about it. And then you talk to someone and you're like, wait, that happened to you too? Wait, that wasn't okay. Wait, that made you feel like this. And I think that this is what I love. And I'm just going to kind of go into my next question. What I love so much about your podcast.

And the reason I brought up the advertising and the people saying the name is, I hate that they limit your podcast just to the name. Yeah. Because for me, I'm older than you. y'all at 40, but my sexual experience coming from purity culture was so, like, there's shame. And when I wrote my book, I wrote a whole chapter about this. There's shame and confusion, and you didn't know how to talk about it or who you could talk to. And I feel like your podcast empowers, it's not just about telling stories. It also, I learn things.

I can talk to my girlfriends about it. And then also, it allows me to feel more powerful and give a voice to, and feel more liberated about talking about sex than I ever have before because you guys are doing that. Do you feel you get a lot of that? Talking about the other side of not just the name or the stories, it's the empowerment behind what you guys do. That's the thing.

People don't see that. And what's crazy is it's why I like going on tour. It's why I like meeting our fans face to face. They come up and express how much our show, which people may see is just two holes sitting there, cackling. They come up and cry and embrace us and talk about how we change their lives. lives, how we've liberated them to be in a more healthy relationship, find their own confidence, or how they've been able to overcome the trauma they've experienced because we've expressed the ways

in which we've received trauma or moved on from it and reclaimed our power from it. And through us sharing those stories and being vulnerable, which most women don't, they've been able to do the same. And so I think that's the thing that the audience doesn't see. It's not until Charlemagne comes to a live show and sees a sold-out fucking room. of 90% black women in community on a Tuesday night, just fucking laughing and embracing and being like seen. There's something about the community that secret things kind of help.

Like, we can't talk about sex too out loud, but here's this space. Like, we had Joey Soloway, who is a movie director and author as well, brought us to Paramount. Mandy and I just came for our first L.A. show. And I was like, actually, you were there. We did the battle thing. So we're sitting at the time, Jill Salloway, talking about this is my favorite secret podcast. Oh, everybody's going to know about it.

And they're laughing with us about that. And that's a true feeling. This is a trans person who loves talking about sex. Got our fucking Emmy for their show Transparent, but still was like, this is my secret show. There is still a block with talking about sex open. I don't know how or why, but I would like to assume it's this patriarchal notion that talking about sex makes you a hoe. I think something that felt really good for me talking about Charlemagne, Kendrick Lamar's concert just happened.

He had a suite for Black Effect Breakfast Club. Walk in the door. He said, oh, easy. Someone wants to meet you. And he's like, I told them you were coming. A security guard at MetLife freaking out when they saw me. Just freaking out. And I'm thinking, what the fuck?

Just hilarious right there? This bitch crazy? When we're all walking out, Lauren, Charlaman, Desolaries. More people took pictures with them on the way out. One girl started freaking out and crying when she saw me. And my boyfriend was laughing because she goes, I didn't have sex for two years. And then I was listening to y'all and I was like, I could do this.

And so he's laughing with me like, yeah, you got that bitch pussy popping again. I'm like, bro, we don't know what happened to that girl. We don't know how to, she was with her mom and two friends. We don't know why those tears came out. Who knows what assault happened to her? And she felt like, oh, if they got over it, theirs, they went through therapy. Just from a podcast plate, that's how much power we have, just by talking shit.

Let's stay on this real quick because I feel like something's happening very subtly in culture. And it has to do with sort of the rise of the right and the right being able to have a little bit more influence culturally. And something else.

So the Diddy Trial, right? Uh-huh. The Diddy Trial and, you know, other people like Bonnie Blue on Twitter and Instagram, they are sort of letting people poke holes in what they think is degeneracy. So when people are seeing Diddy, they're saying, look, all of this sexual adventurousness, all of this sexual exploration, all of these things that you guys say, hey, we can just do this and have a lot of fun. They're dirty. They're corrosive. They lead to people being exploited.

And when people look at a Bonnie Blue or anybody else who are doing these sexual stunts, where they're having anal sex with 50 guys, where they're doing all of this stuff, they're going, look, the degenerates are starting to take over society. And it's interesting in seeing that and observing that because I feel like it's almost in direct response to what we had in the mid to late 2010s, which was a rise in being able to talk about sex. A sex positive movement. Slut walk. You guys, Shan, everybody else that was doing this,

there seems to be a backlash. And there are some big, big examples of people going, ha, look. Look what happens when people start indulging. Look what happens when people start doing this. Look what happens. It's hurting people. It's bad for people.

It's ruining lives. Do you guys see that? And do you have thoughts about it? Oh, yeah. You and I spoke about this. It's the swing of the pendulum happening. Yeah. I think what it has done is placed more fear.

I think with knowledge comes knowing. You know what I mean? It's why the government wants us to live and not really know what the hell is going on. Because when we are a fear-based community, things are in chaos, right? And unfortunately right now, you have women that are literally walking in fear of men and men who are walking in fear of women, especially with the Me Too movement, especially with the weaponization of us learning that, oh, we're assaulted, oh, I can speak out about it now because of the public platforms. Let's also, if you've taken it back to the early 2000s and even the 90s, right?

Twitter wasn't really around. Instagram wasn't around. It's now the platforms that we have to be able to speak, to be able to remove someone from their job because they violated me because they're racist, because they're this. So I think for me, we are in an unsafe space with also the right being in office, wanting to take away the autonomy of women with their choices on as to what they do. with their bodies. And I don't see anything wrong with people having sex. I do think that there needs to be more of an education around it. And that's what we're losing. Like, we hear a freakoff,

and now anyone who's a swinger is what, y'all drugging people, y'all sex trafficking people? Like, I'm going to Jamaica this summer and literally under the comments is, oh, this is freakoffs, you're promoting something that's illegal. So now there's also an attack on a community. There's an attack on a community of people. I was about to say you're going to the Jamaica massage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got a little bit of the adornosur. I'm going to eat an is.

I'm going to eat a Nism. Boca Fest. You know, but I think that there's just now a halt on the education of what's right and what's wrong. We went with the Me Too movement to actually leaning into what consent was. That's been revoked because of the weaponization of it. I think that we just have to educate. And unfortunately,

with the ditty trial, with the changes of laws, we're in a place where we're just... We're just watching all of it happen, but we don't know what it means. Like, there's something I've been talking about a lot lately with the book, with non-monogamy. You've known us for how many years, we've always been non-monogamous, right?

Yeah. Now it's really popular. And now, a lion-ass, I could say, I'm polyamorous. So I feel like I'm almost turning into a fucking Republican here being like, okay, nobody being non-monogamous anymore.

Even in the book, I'm talking about my girlfriend and I, dating people together, my girlfriend at the time, and how amazing and healthy it was. And my partner now, we date women together and him and I have an amazing healthy relationship, but he's done this before. I've done this before. We have the language. I've made mistakes. And I literally feel like I'm on horrible every week now, decision decisions, trying to deter women from getting in ethically non-monogamous relationships because I know there's no education around it. Great to see Jay Hudson talking about it. Great. To see Jay Hudson

in talking about it. Great to see. Tamron Hall. Tamron Hall. Great. But then what? Then what? After you see it.

Do the right things. Was it? Do the right things? Spike Lee has to do it. What was this thing? Spike Lee's thing. She's got to have it. We got to see a girl dating polyamorously.

What I liked about that series was you see the conversations. You see how she doesn't feel played. Like we need to see the woman's side. But generally speaking with ethical non-monogamy, it's a man putting, you in that position because he's got money or power. And I want people to know, I live this life, bro. Like, I want people to know this is a choice.

You got to enjoy knowing your man is going to fuck someone and think it's sexy. This is not just so you can keep the relationship happy. And I don't think people get it. And it really is painful when I read comments about myself, if let's just say I go through a breakup and we're going to go in another open relationship, dude, this is me. This is almost low-key of sexual orientation. I can't date a monogamous nigga. What's he going to do when we walk down the street and say, damn, I want to

fuck that bitch. What's he going to do? What's he going to do when I'm drunk with my homegirls and I be like, I kind of want to fuck? In a relationship where I'm celebrated and they can enjoy that in a relationship where someone feels like I don't love them.

That is something that sucks with ethical non-monogamy. I'm so tired of hearing about it. You really don't walk to walk, bro. It's like, bitch is saying they makeup artists. You ain't go to school, but you learned on YouTube. Cut it out. Yeah, explain it.

Because I remember when Kofi came out and said it, everyone was like, what? And then also was like, he's lying. He's using it as manipulation. Like, I don't even think I really understood. Then, El-Marion said. Can we talk about it here? Explain, like, explain what it is.

So ethical non-monogony is a big umbrella. You hear the word polyamory a lot. I'm not polyamorous because I can't handle multiple love relationships. That's generally polyamory. Would you agree? But the romantic. Yeah, some people don't say that, but the romantic aspect. So having actual multiple.

Boy, friends, girlfriend. Right. People that you're in love with and connected. Yes. And that you have a responsibility to, yes. There it is. That's a responsibility to. My sister was on that shit.

That's hard on that shit. I was. I love that. You remember my my threat? That was a form of Pollyamory, but we were a closed triad. See, there's all these. Which means it was just us three. I couldn't just, yeah.

And in my last, in my last non-monogamous relationship, I would identify more as open slash swinger, because we engaged with people together. That's how we, like, I didn't really want him, which is why he cheated, which is why I can say there was a betrayal and cheating happening. He was having sex with other women without me.

And you didn't know. And that wasn't what the agreement was. And that is actually a coin term, Dan Savage, who's super popular sex expert, podcaster. He's been around forever. He created the word pegging as well. Monogamish. He created that word?

Yeah, he did. You can Google that. Dan Savage. Broad City. But what's it? It was called bibliography. That nigga would be in the white, but he also calls something monogamish.

He's like, it's when you fuck other people, but with each other. And so that's been something I'm super comfortable with and something I really enjoy. And that's non-monogamy. There's a chapter in there called, Can Jealousy Be Hot? And for me, I realized I was into this

when, like, I had my first threesome, and I remember watching them have sex and feeling left out, but also feeling turned on. at the same time. And in my brain was like, oh, but I like this. And then that girl would call me

and tell me about them, fuck it. And I was jealous, but I wanted more and I wanted her to do it again. Interesting. And it hit me that, like, I'm a little off.

So I just think what happens today is these men want multiple girlfriends and they're hiding the, I'm telling all my bitches around about each other. So I'm ethical. When you know these women are happy, feeling protected.

They have to have agency in the decision as well. You know, my boyfriend just had to cut somebody off. He has a girl that he fucks sometimes when I'm out of town. He was like, damn, I lost one with my hose. I was like, what happened? He was like, I just don't think she really get my girl is my girl. I think she thought when I said this, I just meant I didn't want a relationship for her.

He said, when I was in L.A. with you, she asked me what I did for my birthday. I told her we were away. We were hanging with family. He said, I could see tears. Like, the girl was super upset. And he's like, I'm not about to play with her like that. just me saying, this is my life, is hurting you. He's like, and it really made me feel good

because I realized he gets it. And a lot of men wouldn't give a fuck that that bitch was going through that shit. They'd be like, whatever. She's just the bitch I fuck more than that. Men are doing this with girls that they're acting like they care about, that they know, think will lead to more.

And I think the problem with ethical non-monogamy is a lot of these women are waiting out until the next one leaves. So they can be the only one. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that there's... I think that... Yeah, I was about to say,

my... Holes would be waiting around. My pops was a non-ethical. You could be a married man. That's very true. That's very true. He just needs to time. He could be a married man and a woman will be somewhere waiting for him to get divorced.

You know what I think also, though? I think that, like, there's... Particularly in cities like Los Angeles, right? Like, if you go to Baton Rouge, like... Or, like, I'm serious. If you go to the Black... the places like where I grew up, what you see is people that just found each other

and just deal with each other. All of my home boys, they met women, and I could tell when it was getting serious. Because we would joke about, like, take Ian, for example. Like, we used to joke about girls that we was fucking with.

Like, if they fuck with another guy, if they saw another guy, something like that. I remember one time Ian was driving the car, and I made a joke about Katrina. And he was like, I don't appreciate that shit, nigga. I was like, oh my God.

Okay, so then you know, people just find each other, right? So small town, people find each other. The dynamics change with time, with social media, but also with population. There are probably a lot of women that feel, and I'm not going to speak for them,

that feel insecure about being with a guy that could be with a lot of other women because it seems like they would be grooming their replacement. particularly in places like New York or L.A. or Miami, when there's a scarcity of men that are available for the dating pool, which then empowers those men to act differently. I remember I had a homeboy of mine tell me about like, you ever heard the term L.A. 7?

Yes. Like a girl. You're a 10 in your town. You're a 10 in your town. I remember L.A.6. I remember 2011. He goes, what you have to understand is for men, it's the opposite. And I was like, what do you mean?

He goes, well, if you were six in your hometown in L.A., you might be an eight. Because you lit. Because you lit. Because it's not as many women out here. And they're looking, like, you see guys like for, because he was always used to talk about how handsome he is. I used to be like, nigger, I look better than you. You're not that handsome. And he would be like, I'll just.

hear, me, actor, this, I'm the fucking man. I actually don't think it's actor. Y'all men listening and listening to Van Leith and say this. A man would a decent job that just does well, decent car, decent fit. Don't I say this? That is an L.A.8. That is how hard it is to just find a decent guy. And I really believe that's where we're having this pendulum swing again, like you said.

women are now realizing there's more dope women out here than men. Sorry to say it. I can name 100 bitches with their own companies doing shit for sure. Now you don't have to put up with shit. My home was... You don't have to put up with

a man ruining your peace. Like a lot of my friends that have been single for so long, they're like, I feel like I need to date. Otherwise, I'm going to be okay with just not dating at all because I like my peace. I like my home.

You say they find out they need to date women? No, they just need to... They kind of just might need to date. because there's so many women just okay with their friendships. I know that. Okay with their home. Okay with not having a man come and disturb their peace. And they have the money to provide for themselves.

They have the acumen to just be like, okay, well, if I want some dick, I can definitely go get some. But I don't have to put up with the bullshit of a relationship. Is that, last time I just go quick. This is a question that I really want to ask three women in the world. Seriously. Is that feeling and that, outlook durable. Can it last?

And let me tell you what... The feeling she's talking about? Yeah, let me tell you what I mean. Is the question I'm always asking myself is what's biological versus what's sociological, like what we put into each other.

I, for some reason, don't know many women who are okay being alone. And I'm not... I don't know how to say this and not come off like a caveman. But I know a lot of guys that I had one of my homeboys give me the coldest line. He goes, dog, really, I would rather be alone and annoyed.

Yep. And he means it. And he means it. And he can go and date and he can do his thing at 40 and 50. Now, eventually one day. Going and dating. Hold on. Hold on.

One day he's going to realize that he's going to die by himself and then he's going to freak out. And the whole, now, I get that. But I just don't know either for reasons that are societal reasons. reasons or maybe it's a pro-evolutionary trait, many women who are just okay being alone. So, Van, and I'll start as a woman that I know probably differs from both of them, especially because I... Damn.

You did to call your daddy thing. No, no, no, no, I'm definitely different. I think we all have different perspectives. Well, no, we're going to have different perspectives, but I exist differently and I'll say why. First off, being alone does that mean you're lonely? That's the number one part. I am also a woman who does not want motherhood or to be a wife.

Right. And so when I look at that, I've been having these conversations with my friends as well, and they're like, yeah. But when you get old, who's going to like take care of you and wipe your ass? Don't you want someone to do that? And I'm like, well, unless I'm with a nurse, I'm just supposed to expect an accountant to know how to care for me in my old age and be my doctor. Like a lot of people say, well, don't you want your kids to take care of you? There's so many people that end up in homes who want to.

Once we get, once we become adults, once we have our own families to raise and all those things, a lot of people aren't there to take care of their parents. So the logic that you get a partner to take care of you and you have kids to take care of you, that's normally not even how it ends, right? And so for me, not seeking those two things, not leaning into the societal pressures of wearing those two titles as a badge of honor, there's so many other things that I live for. I don't live for finding a partner. I don't live for birthing a child.

my children are this book this book will outlive any baby that I push out of my fucking pussy that's my legacy what makes me happy is not cool, cuddling is nice romance is nice intimacy is nice

you can get it but again I'd rather get that sometimes than have to deal with someone that makes me miserable and makes me not enjoy the life that I actually can create for myself now do you know I think people are saying

when there is the last thing I say for a lot I want to hear all you guys talk about this but do you don't think people are saying, when they say somebody to take care of you, I don't think that that's what they really mean. Love. I think what they mean is somebody to care about you. And I'll tell you what I mean. It's like, I sometimes, there are periods in life where we are the most fragile.

Yep. Like when we're kids, and then as we get older, as we get older, we have less utility for society. We need more care. Like, my mom all the time is just elated to be on the phone with me. And that might be because as she gets a little older, she comes to terms with the fact that my father, too, before he passed away, that a lot of the things that she thought that she was going to do have evaporated. And the things that exist for her now are what she's poured into me and somebody to call her up and actually care about her and talk to her.

So it's not to take care of her. It's just as you become this thing that slowly getting, obsolete in American society. What are the things that you put around you? You're making me cry, man. Like, ooh, it's so crazy. I've been cried on a podcast in a long time. What the hell is happening?

I'll tell you. She'll make me cry. I know, like, my dad is 90. He's alive. My mom, 74. People just don't understand how much love older parents need.

A lot of, I'm 34 as I'm very young. Yesterday. This is why take me. Barry, but. Yeah. Who's been with a nine-year-old dad. That's my name. So my dad being 90.

So it's hitting me hard what you're saying because, so my dad is in a nursing home because it's very expensive to have him at home. We tried at home care. It's just difficult. He's not mobile. And my parents are still married. There's a guy next to him in the room that doesn't talk in a coma, basically. And his wife was there.

And I saw her yesterday. He's black. She was a, hey, baby. I was like, oh my God, I've always wanted to meet you. Like, I never get to see you because I live in New York. So normally when I come, you're not off work. And she goes, you know, Willie, I know he gets happy when he sees you because you turn the TV on for him or you do whatever. I'm like, how do you know?

She's like, oh, he speaks to me. I can see it in his eyes. She's like, everybody always wonders how he's still alive. I know why because I'm here. He loves me. He feels me every day. She says, and when you come to see your dad, you talk to him. I don't know how this woman knows that.

But I really do. This guy cannot move. And I literally touch his leg. I say, hey, Mr. Barnes, you want to watch football? I put it on just because I saw a team on his wall. Shit. Did he give you consent to do that? That's why he'll like when you come by.

The rest of his body. You just took out your hands. He just took all his kids. The way he didn't look up and like, oh, that's why he's studying. And I was not because I knew for you too. I was like, God. You're talking out the leg. You said.

That's what you need that physical time. I say all this to say. This is beautiful. This love that he feels from this person keeps him pushing and alive because it's true. Like the nurses tell me all the time like, oh, when you bring dogs or when your mom comes by and bring food, like these other people have no one that cares. So they just deteriorate. And like love is just very loud. I watched a documentary about centurions, people that live to 100.

If they're not married, they have community. So yes, friendship works. Yeah, that's me. Let's be honest, though. I care about my friends so much. When those friends all get partners. When they have their own lives, I'm with you. I want a companionship.

I don't know if I want to be a wife. I'm in a different place. Oh, girl, we know, because you are out of paying hell of money. Yeah. You wanted a reason. You wanted a reason. It's true. You know what it's.

We talked about. The marriage control for me. When I thought I said, God. Please take, no, it should be. Rachel got money. I'm going up like Rachel. It should be. It should be a lesson.

I said, I'm going on the bachelor. It wasn't the best way. I saw you in New York. We talked. We waited to each other fashion week. But no, I, I know. I hope it's a lesson for other people. So I'm in a different place where I'm like,

cannot see myself marrying again for that, but also just what I went through, something you were talking about earlier, about how hard it is. Like, you might be bored. You might be complacent, but you're like, it's easier to stay in that, especially being public and have presenting it

been presenting it a certain way to people to let that go and to rebuild and start over, especially when I do have societal pressure of my age. I still want to be a mother. I don't know if I, maybe something I do by myself, don't know if I want to be married, which is hard for like my parents to hear because they have such traditional values. But what I do know I want is companionship. And I was listening to, it must have been a clip because I don't really listen to Jay Shetty, but he was talking about how in our society, our culture, Western culture,

we prioritize love as the ultimate relationship that we should have. White Western culture. Sure. I think we do it too. I think about traditional values. I absolutely think we do the same thing. Look at hashtag Blake Love. Everybody man, Penn. My mom would be like, don't say that. Don't say that.

No, I absolutely think that. I'll make a point after this. I think that when he was talking, he was like, there are so many other things to prioritize. And if you look at other cultures around the world, Eastern culture or historically, they prioritize other things. So to your point, I feel that way for me, for the first time ever,

I'm like, what took me through my divorce was community, family, friendship. But as I'm coming out of it on the other side, when I hear what you were saying about the nursing home and the guy that's in there, I want companionship. I want somebody to do life with. And I know I want that for myself. But, you know, I'm also in a place where I don't trust anybody. That's just all. The only reason why I said white is because I could make an argument that this obsession with love or monogamy relates back to the need for a Eurocentric Western civilization to create a nuclear family.

And then that nuclear family to be something that stands as an economic model. Monogamy, not the love part. No, no, no. But I will tell you that like where we actually come from, well, us and then half of y'all. You know, you know he was going to get one of those. Where we actually come from, there were tribal considerations, where elders were actually, well, we didn't even have some of these concerns because elders in those situations were exalted and everybody took care of one another and everyone looked after the common good of some of things.

You are spinning. I've never dated an African man that's like first-gen like this. And he told me he never saw parents kiss and embrace until being around my parents. He's like, and when I tell you, that family is big. He's like, I just didn't see it too often. Not a lot of embracing, a lot of hugging. He's like, but the love that I saw growing up is, oh, we're going to take this family in. We're going to do this.

We're going to look out for each other. His father put all of them through college. Like, we are going to climb this ladder. That's how we take care of each other. Whereas in my family, I don't have siblings. There's no one else. It's just my parents. Like, love is the thing we have.

Like, constant over-the-top ridiculous. And I'm not downplaying all of that, but I'm just saying that there is an argument that some people would make. And maybe we will go into a little deeper on the podcast. That a lot of these things are sold in a way to make you say, hey, traditional family and all of this. The nuclear family is the backbone of European. civilization as it was given to us. And it is also kind of, it's a part from

their little kingdoms, essentially, that need to undergird a large kingdom. I think that's the thing too. We've made the end goal finding a soulmate, finding love and love this. And I'm having trouble with the word now too because you're supposed to just love your family, even though you don't get to pick them in their shitty-ass people

a lot of the time. Like, there's a lot of fucked up people in my goddamn family and I'm just supposed to love them because of blood? No, that's dumb. All of y'all said you should want someone to care for you. You create those things and it doesn't have to be the person that you're laying in bed with. And so for me, the idea that love and care is still rooted or the hierarchy of it comes from your romantic partner and not everyone else who's in your life, to me just that doesn't seem to be my goal. Like, would love to find someone and look at me using it.

I would like to. It would be nice to be with someone I want, not someone I need. Now talk about that in the book. There's literally a chapter. Why do you need me to need you? That's the patriarchal notion, even too, for how men are supposed to show

and how women are supposed to... There's strength in this statement, but then what happens when the statement gets extreme. So, like, the reason I cried is because I feel like, damn, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one left that's soft enough to tell the truth. And the truth is that, yes, these niggas ain't shit, but I can tell you right now,

almost every successful friend I have is letting them know, I don't fucking need you, I don't need, and it's creating a lot of loneliness in their life. And you're, I'm not talking about you.

You don't have a lonely life. Oh, I know. And this is your truth. But I am really having a struggle with trying to bring this softness out in my friendships because all these bitches are lit. And you're just pushing people away

because you're so difficult to hear because it feels really mean. I need camaraderie. If I'm meeting up with my home girl, I want to know, hell yeah, to see me tonight. It's a lot of like hardness that we had to build because this is how women get power by saying we're good alone. But sometimes showing that and screaming it is really

deterring people from wanting us. And I think there has to be a shift in independence and also femininity because on some non-toxic red pill shit, I swear to God, I heard myself do it. I really wasn't finding love because I just felt like everyone's homegirl to them. because I just was too with my chest out. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, whatever. You don't have to call me back. No, no, no.

Just kind of like, didn't need you. Don't need you. And it's a turn off. If women don't like it when men do it to them, how do we think we're going to become attractive? People just act so and a little too independent when there should be some openness. The problem is there's so much pain there.

We can't be these women if we've been cheated on. Yes, we don't. That's for sure. Where is the safety? How can I just be so open if the last niggas fuck me over? And the crazy thing. is, like, men, as a man, I mean, my dad used to tell me that I would be laying on the couch, like, just watching

WrestleMania and doing my thing. And my dad would be like, what did you do today? And I was like, this. And he'd be like, I'll tell you something, the world has no use for a useless man. Like, you need somebody to need you. You need someone to be able to rely on you. Like, right now, somebody if how many people are going to call you if they get in trouble. Sorry, that's my first control alarm.

Yeah, oh, Jesus Christ. He goes, I want kids, just not today. He goes, how many people are going to call you if they're in trouble? Like, he goes, as a man, you need to be able to provide safety and stability for someone. So a lot of men, when they do not feel needed, even in relationships, particularly in relationships with women, we do it in soft ways with each other. Like your guy tells you he's going through something, you good?

You need anything? Check on them. But with women, if you feel like she doesn't need you, you feel like you're doing something wrong. I guess it's the provision and the protecting for me. Yeah. That's all men have been fed.

And as a woman who now can provide for herself, I need the emotional support. I need ways of which men feel like, like, and that's a conversation. There's so much power of me being able to be with men. that I want. In my 20s, things were transactional because I needed these bills paid. I needed a man to show up and help me out. The famous man you ever picked.

I'm not doing this with you. I'm not doing this with you. You know, I'm not giving you a name. You know what the size of it was. First of all, first of all, I let them pick their own size. You let them pick their own size. They were like, who this got fun? I'm like, that's very considerate of you. Sometimes they want a schmedium.

Would you say, like, do smaller guys want the bigger straps? Oh, my gosh. Bigger guys with the smaller straps. I'm not going to lie. This is a great question because I've only pegged two niggas. Please tell us. Yeah. First off, that is not what we're about to see.

We're not. That's a really interesting question. You know how like you need a gay nigga and they're huge and you're like, you bought them? No. No. I mean, to me, everyone's whole is different. So it depends how they've trained it, how much it gets used the same way with women. You never trained anyone?

Oh, I love anal training. I'm sure you. Yeah. It's training. It's great. ain't in the book. You fuck them. No, no, no. What's crazy is. There's a whole chapter called, can I put it back there?

And hold on, hold on. Let me tell you the education that goes into this chapter. It's in the pleasure chapter. Oh, I thought it was in progression. Well, it should be because I talked about how early on, if a man wanted to have anal sex with me, I immediately thought he was gay. So I talk about myself unlearning homophobia as it pertains to... I love this conversation.

As it pertains to what pleasure looks like back there. I also talk about how as women, there's no conversation about anal sex at all. Anal sex is supposed to be just for gays. That's what we're even taught that women don't receive pleasure that way. That's going to be painful, that it's not good, that, oh, my God. And so I talk about the progression essentially through finally having anal sex, finally having my first anal orgasm and enjoying it, showing my friends the right way to have it, Because there's a wrong way to do it.

There's the wrong way to eat pussy. There's the wrong way to have anal sex. And then I go into how I started liking man butts. And then my progression with having the conversation to where with straight men, their masculinity is not tied to their boothole. That part. And then I love just having and creating those safe spaces for black men to express something that they enjoyed without the fear of being called gay.

And there was power in me creating safe spaces for black men. black men. That's the other thing. I've only been with black men. So all of my experiences sexually have been only with black men. And it's powerful for me to have those faces where they feel seen, where they can express what they get from pleasure. And they know they're doing it with a woman who, if we stop talking, I ain't going to go out and be like, you're like, hey, I'm not going do that. Or telling their business. Like you tried to get it. Like you tried to get me to do. I think that's, I know you have to leave soon. I think that's such a good, I have learned an older age to have the conversation. Y'all were having this, y'all were talking a tank and y'all were talking

about this, of having the conversation of what do you like and not shaming and making, creating the space of feeling comfortable. And I love that I know that now because there's certain things that I learned that I like. And I'm like, oh, okay, like I didn't even know this. Oh, I can't wait to read. Oh, it's juicy. When women discover what they like, the crazy thing is just bringing it back to Diddy and Cassie, when women discover what they like, it is a crazy thing for us to think, like, people have said all the time to me, like, what happened to you when you were a kid? The first words in the book is like, bro, I never had a weird uncle, fuck me. I'm just horny. Like, I didn't have some fucked up shit happen that made me this way.

Just like you with the laptop. If I heard dial up, I was like, I'm going to go see porn now. Like, I couldn't even do a keyboarding class in school because the Pavlov theory was just happening to me all around. And I've always been this way. I don't know where it comes from, but it's not always some fucked up thing. So when women express their kinks

and someone may not be receptive, that's the shame. Yeah. We need to figure you out. Yeah, we only shame corpses, kids, and animals. Everything else, hey, go ahead and do your thing, baby. Shit may not be my thing, but if you want to do it, all right? I have more questions, but they have to go.

I mean, we're doing Patreon. We can squeeze. It's okay. more questions. I want to bring you guys back because I always, every time I talk to you to, it's always so enlightening for me. You're also fascinated. I think he's

very fascinated by you guys, which I can't. I am, I am, but these are my home girls. I know for a long time. The host of Decisions, decisions. Core wrote the book No Holds Barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration, power. Available now for pre-order by

all the things. So, don't know when this coming out. I know y'all put a mad episode out to I'm assuming soon. So because the book isn't available now, we made a master class so that people could learn all of the things that are in the book. Because us people, we'd be like, well, what we give for free?

Let's put a free 99. So with the purchase of a book, you get this master class for free. Oh, nice. In the class, it's like, I sit with like a master dating coach that tells you green flags, red flags. I teach people how to eat pussy because y'all are struggling. And over the last eight years, that's the number one question.

How do I you pussy? Girl, I let it take my hands. I look at the camera. It was awkward. I was like, and then you do. But I talk about the dungeon. So the dungeon that's talked about in the book, I go to and talk about all of the different sex toys, but also the safety in using them, but also what household items you could use instead of spending all the money on them. So it's really dope.

I'm in the dungeon. And then I also do a module on how to find. strength in getting over a breakup. How to heal from a breakup. And there's everything from a workbook. We give playlist. I got a whole fuck that nigga playlist for if you're broken up. Don't sit with the, you know,

sad songs that make you miss them. Get over them. So there's a lot of things in this masterclass. And so literally, all you have to do, if you've already pre-ordered the book or you're looking to pre-order the book, go to our Instagram page. There's a masterclass form in the bio. You just upload your receipt. And we send

you a code to access the masterclass. peace. Thank you for having us, Kain. Oh, so happy to have you guys here. It's so funny because I've never sat with you. You know we really want you on decision's decision. See with you now, I'm like, it makes you remember

when you haven't seen a friend of a while. I'm like, I want to do this again. Oh, no, we're in a group chat, but also I listen to y'all now twice a week. And I love to hear from y'all talk about politics, the guests y'all have, and then the gorilla shit. Like, y'all go so off. Y'all are great together.

I love it. And I love higher learning is one of my favorite. Shout to y'all. Y'all be on the airplane. too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean. I'm so excited. Yeah. Don't know. I'm going on a Delta, I see that thing. If y'all are on a Delta flight, y'all can literally check out. I'm really trying to type of person.

I'm, I've, uh, I've, uh, I've stunted with that before. I know you've put it on. And the, and the person next to me. What are you doing? Point, what? Oh. Oh.

Yo, no. And I get. I get embarrassed. If I see myself looking at it, I'm like, oh, my God, they're going to see me looking at myself. We're two-old-old. You know what I did on the plane? I mean, first time I'm away,

JFK to LAX, and normally you got one or two other black people on that. I'm signing pages for our book. It made me feel, and I'm not a person that likes a show off. I want to wear nice things for someone to maybe notice. Them pages signing them every person. Karen Culkin was on that fucking plane.

And this nigger was even looking like, what the fuck does this bitch do? I'm just signing pages, signing pages. I got my little dog, and I'm like, yeah, I'll just do a pari. Signing, signing, signing, signing. It felt so fucking dope. I love seeing y'all shit on there.

I love you. We agree. We're not worth anymore. Shout out to know. All right. No glazer of the week this week because you do that on Monday. I already have a glazer of the week. It's disgusting.

That'll be on Monday. Also, Angel Reese and Sjadour Sanders. Comparison and a talk. A whiteboard. A whiteboard. I like the tease. I like the tease of what's what's to expect. A whiteboard segment about Angel Reese and Sander's.

On Monday. I like the idea of the whiteboard. You're producing over there. Thank you, Louise and Mandy, for joining us. Please go get that book. Those ladies are expert podcasts. It was a lot of fun talking to them. Thank you to King Charles for inspiring me.

Okay, I'm going to run right now. Aspiring us all. Yeah. Take 10 caps off. I'm done. I'm Van Lee Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.