Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Trump’s Taxes, Plus Aaron Rupar: Banned by Elon Musk

Episode Date: December 23, 2022

Van and Rachel react to the release of Donald Trump’s tax returns (12:48) before welcoming journalist Aaron Rupar to discuss having his Twitter account suspended and the future of the platform (38:20). Then it’s time for a TikTok talk (1:04:53). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Aaron Rupar Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Our learning is on. It is Ivan Lathin, Jr. And it's me, Rachel Lynn Lindsay. Rachel. Van. There's a lot of tense people out there.

What happened? The verdict to the Tory Lane's made the stalee cases. It's out? It's out yet. It went to the jury. It went to the jury. It's deliberating as we speak. Cases closed.

It could happen during this podcast. It could happen right after. I will tell you this. It's Thursday as we record. Okay. If we will be recording through the time that the jury will deliberate, they said the jury's going to cut it off at 430 today.

It's currently 351, Los Angeles time. So we will still be on this record when the jury is done for the day if they do not reach a verdict. If they deliberate tomorrow, which they have the option not to, from what I'm told, they have the option not to deliberate tomorrow

and to string it out until after Christmas. But if they decide to deliberate tomorrow, they're not sequestered, are they? I don't know. Can't be. If they're going to do that for Christmas, they can't be. But go ahead, sorry.

If they are, if they deliberate tomorrow and they reach a verdict tomorrow, we will try to give you guys an hour on it tomorrow if we can jump on. 30 minutes, Rachel's Bruce. Okay, I mean, you just see. No, no, no, no, we'll definitely cover it tomorrow.

But you said an hour. See, I just want you guys to know. I just want you guys to know how it goes here. I'm always down to give y'all what y'all want, get my ass kicked by you guys. and Rachel's always the one that doesn't want to do it. She's always the one standing in the moon. These absolutes.

Always. It's always. It's always. I'll tell you something. I'm on vacation and I'm more than willing, right? I'm on vacation now. And I'm more than willing to give the people a podcast. But when you said an hour, I jump back.

But if things don't go a certain way, I'm sure I'm going to want to talk for more than an hour. So we shall see. We will see. Once again, there's a chance, albeit slim, if you ask me, because about 40 minutes away from the deadline for them to be finished today, there's a chance that they haven't heard it today. And if they do, we will obviously jump in on it. I want to tell you guys something right now. I am really disappointed in our fans. I am. Well, what's new? At this point, they don't feel that anymore when you say they're worse than Jackals. They're worse than jackals. That's all I'm going to say. I'm not going to even go. Nope.

Well, you have to. Nope. I'll do it. And I'm not, I'm not even calling them jackals anymore. I'll do it. They, they, the new name of them is DNA. DNA. DNA, that's the name of our fans.

And what does that stand for? Donnie bleep it out. I'm serious. Blupe it out. So to make them try to figure out what it is, DNA. That's what they are. Very quick. the reason why Van is so worked up, take a guess.

It has to do with Mountain Lion. And I have to say, as a person who has not been a lover and most time supporter of Mountain Lion, I too is taken aback by, dare I say, soulless jackals on Reddit. You guys, Van has expressed what Mountain Lion means. He even told you how he finally was able to connect to why he is. is so drawn to Mountain Lion. Even I felt it, guys. Even it resonated with me.

We lose P-22. So, yes, what started out as a joke, not a joke, but what started out as something that was light and Van was so curious about to learn about a new world full of Mountain Lion, it did turn dark and it turned sad. But that doesn't mean that we're going to start throwing digs certain people start saying we're done with the segments. We're glad it's over.

Are you glad the life of P-22 is over too? You'd have turned me from a hater to a lover just by the way that y'all were reacting on Reddit. We got to do better. In 2023 Reddit, we got to do better. That was a little too much. We went too far. We went too far. It's okay.

It's fine. Went too far. DNA. What's you got going on for the weekend? What's your Christmas looking like? Now, tell me now. We're leaving. We're going to Miami.

You know, Brian's family celebrates Christmas Eve. It's something they do in the Latino culture. And then Christmas. So what happens on Christmas Eve in the Latino culture? Same thing. I mean, we're having a dinner. We're having, we dance, we gather, we trade presents. It's Christmas.

And we do it in the evening. At least that's how they do theirs. And then Saturday, Christmas Day, I'm going to brunch. That's their tradition at his sister's house. Because as my mother-in-law says, she married an American. So they do Christmas Day. And then I leave and I go to Houston to spend time with my grandmother. Pretty hair is there.

The judge is there. And yeah, that's it. And then I come back. What about you? What are you doing? Chinese food on Sunday. Just hanging out, making some hot chocolate. I like hot chocolate

I like it A lot of people don't drink it Do you drink it? I do not Why? Tell me why I don't want to say it Because I don't want the jokes

To then come right after It gives you gas No It makes you take a crap No You don't like chocolate That's it That's it

Hey I bet you like that hot caramel though. I bet you like a little horschata. Huh? What do you call it? What's that stuff that my whole boy be sending me? Hold on. Shout out Jason.

What's that stuff that they send? It's a Christmas drink. You know what I'm talking about. It's a Latino Christmas drink, a Cuban Christmas drink. What is it? I don't know. A Cuban Christmas drink.

Oh, it's like, it's like eggnog. What is it? What is it called? Coquito. Yeah, coquito It's Puerto Rican Is it Puerto Rican? My home boy is Cuban

And he's always sending me to What is it? The coquito? But they probably I mean, it's just in the culture Yeah, well, I don't want to Coquito Right, Rachel, that's what you like,

You like that Coquito, huh? Ah! Huh? Ryan's close. I bet they drink the Coquito there. Let me see. The Colombian Coquito. Let's see.

Columbian Christmas traditions. Oh, listen. They light small candles and paper lanterns placing them on window seals and balconies and decorating parks and roads. Bogota closes several streets so the citizens can admire the Capitol's Christmas lights and undertake family activities throughout the evening. It's very special. There is a really good way.

There's a really good Columbia drink that we, that might. My father-in-law drinks, and I cannot think it's so good. Is it? Oh, there is. Sabahon Colombiano. Colombiano Sabahon. Agua diente. Agua diente.

But they call it something. It has a shorter name. They also got Calan canella's, canola, canela-zalcanalazzo, sugar cane and cinnamon hot drinks. They gone to rip us up. That's fine. We're trying to learn more about Brian's culture. And I'm not going to lie.

These Colombian drinks look like they bossing. What is this one right here? Aradintier sour? Yeah, that's what I said. Agua dente sour. Agua dente sour? I probably saying that wrong, but it's strong. It's strong.

You like that. Popular restaurants. piece. Wow. I'm into, I want to make, I want to drink some Colombian drinks. How come they don't, you know, it's like, it's like, share the drinks. That's very important. No, I, like share the drinks. I've been around Brian a lot. It's not like I've ever been to your house and Brian was like, man, would you like an alcohol or the dinto? DEN-N-A and he doesn't really drink. But we, we should have some of that. They got shot. Champas, which is, it's, it's champas.

It's a fruit and corn drink for family get-togethers or during lunch, Champas. The corn taste is finally accompanied with cinnamon, orange tree leaves, and sweetened with panella or surrequains. Wow. And there's the Arguardinti. That's the traditional drink. The national drink of the country, the name literally denounce burning water. This is an alcoholic drink in various options. and almost all restaurants and alcohol.

This is tasty. It's strong. They do have chocolate. They got chocolate in Colombia. They got chocolate Santa Farino. Of course. Okay. So you're going to have a good time.

You're going to have a good time. You're going to have a good time. You're going to be down there in Miami. Now, the weather's going to be pleasant in Miami. Is it not? Only the first day. So Brian lives in the suburbs. So if I go straight to his parents' house,

I don't even see the water unless we fly over it. So we're going to spend one day on the beach. That's the only warm day. And then it gets cold. Miami cold. Like what's Miami cold? What is it like? 50s and 40s.

50s and 40s. And it's cold. It feels colder. Right. And then on Christmas Day, you said you stay there with them as well? Yeah. I stay with them Christmas Eve Christmas Day. And we go over to his sister's house on Christmas Day.

So then you don't get to see your family for Christmas Not this year We do every other year How do you guys Have there has ever been a situation real quick Where all the families have gotten together Last year So last year

We went to Tennessee We had a big house That's the one you met My nephews Oh yeah you just said that On the podcast Rimshot all that Rimshot how was that

How did that work out? Was that like a lifetime movie or what It was a life time? time movie. It could not have gone better. Like one night we had a private chef. My sister's really good at event planning. So we had a private chef. We had music. Somebody came and like set up one man band. And, you know, like my parents were dancing. Brian's parents were dancing. Brian and I were dancing. Was there any inner dancing? Like did your mom? No, no, no, no. Did your mom dance with Brian's dad and did Brian's dad dance with pretty hair?

I don't think so. What kind of freaky shit is going on in Tennessee? I just said, I don't think so. Everybody stayed with their respective couples. Was there any political discourse? Never. We're not allowed to talk about politics. We should bring it up.

Things get wild. Things get wild. Look, we got a lot of stuff going on in the world right now. We got to talk about, I'll talk about former President Trump in his tax returns. Broke as a nigga. That's the big deal of the day. We're going to talk about it under the side of this break.

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Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Okay. We did not get to see in detail Trump's tax returns that was never going to happen. However, there was a summary of Trump's tax returns that was released by the House committee. Okay. The House committee's report on Trump's tax returns is out. Now, before we get into what,

was revealed, let's take a look back. Let's go back in time to 2016. Hillary Clinton and what she said about Trump's taxes then. Donnie, give me the audio. Why won't he release his tax returns? And I think there may be a couple of reasons. First, maybe he's not as rich as he says he is. Second, maybe he's not as charitable as he claims to be. Third, we don't know all of his business dealings, but we have been told through investigative reporting that he owes about $650 million to Wall Street and foreign banks. Or maybe he doesn't want the American people, all of you watching tonight, to know that he's paid nothing in federal taxes. Because the only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was

trying to get a casino license. And they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. So So if he's paid zero, that means zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools or health. So the actual tax returns actually will be released, but it's taking a couple of days, as I understand, because those have to be heavily redacted. Can't docks Trump, even though he's famous for dox and people. As far as what we've learned so far, Rachel, is there anything for you that jumps out at you or that is shocking about the president's taxes? not in particular with him paying some years and not paying some years.

I think what stuck out to me the most was the IRS. I would like to understand why the IRS, if the IRS is known to audit sitting presidents, why did it take them two years to audit President Trump? and then they only did that after being called out to do so by a congressman. So I think that that's where I was like, huh, but that's their job and that's what they're supposed to do. And they've done it for every other sitting president. Why is it different from him?

I think that was the most shocking thing to me. And maybe not necessarily the breakdown of taxes because I don't really understand all of that. and I think I expected it to be all over the place. But that I wasn't expecting. Yeah. Yeah. So he paid nothing in taxes in 2020, $558,000 in taxes in 2019,

$5.3 million in taxes in 2007 and 2018 and nothing again in 2017. These ups and downs were made possible by the strategic distribution of business losses which soak up income levels and with them tax liability, that is according to tax experts. Now Trump has some of the finest tax guys

in the entire world and has prided himself on that. So if there is any way for him to manipulate the tax code, you would expect that he would do that. As we learn more, these are the important things to me to learn. Whether or not Trump was manipulating the tax code, it's neither here nor there for me because obviously he was doing that.

And brags about it. Yeah. The important things for me are two things. whether or not anything that Donald Trump has done is tantamount to fraud, which showing strategic losses, inflating losses, not correctly reporting losses in order to lower your tax burden is certainly fraud. So if there's any of that in there, whether or not Donald Trump is guilty of tax fraud. And number two, whether or not Donald Trump has actually lied about his net worth for this entire time.

Now, a lot of people look at that and they go, that's petty. the reason why would you want to know that, right? Oh, like, why would you want to know that? Like, why would you want to know that? I'll tell you why. People say, what does it matter how much money Trump has?

A significant part of Trump's cult of personality, a significant part of his brand, is his ability to will and deal and be a great businessman. Now, we might think that that only matters to the diehard Trumpers. I don't think that that's true. I think that there's a,

a sliver of independence who, when they vote specifically with their checkbooks, specifically with their wouts, remember, there are a group of voters who voted for Obama and then switched and voted for Trump. You think about the golf that it would like that you'd have to cross socially and then just temperament to make that. A lot of people said that they voted because they wanted to see some sort of economic change in the country, which. You know, still lost on me, but that's what they said.

I think it's important to those voters or it's important to signal to some of those voters, whether or not Donald Trump is as big of a huckster as he says he is. And if he is truly lying about how much money he's been able to make and how much money he has, I don't think it's going to ever matter to the diehards, to the 35 percent, to the people that would be with Trump if he raped Big Bird. I don't think that it's going to matter to those people, right? But I do think that there's, that there could be a significant blow to the people who just don't give a fuck about the bad that somebody does or what they represent that just votes for them because they think they know how,

he knows how to strike a deal. So you're talking about like, oh, you're talking about independence, not the, not even independence. I'm talking about like the people that kind of swing elections on the margin. the people that delivered essentially a Donald Trump victory in 2016. I guess I'm like, am I crazy? I thought it was widely known that Trump is a terrible businessman and that he's been living off of his inheritance from his father

and has continued to make bad investments. I thought that was known. I know we don't have all the details yet from the report, like the full out details of what we'll get when it's redacted, But I thought it's been being speculated, at least, that when he did pay the money, and I don't want to say the years wrong, 2018 and maybe 2019, that money that he paid taxes on was him selling the assets that were handed down to him. So I thought it was known that this man invests very badly because it's even being speculated.

I was reading an opinion piece that it's like, why would he pay no taxes? this is a man who prides himself, right? We listen to the clip of Hillary Clinton. He says, when Hillary Clinton talks about the fact that he doesn't pay taxes, he goes, that makes me smart. He is notoriously known to not pay taxes. That's the thing. Even from his father.

So it's like a Trump thing. So for him to go to not paying taxes, then to paying taxes, it's being speculated that the reason that he did that is because he had to sell assets. And everyone's like, why would he sell his assets? Why would he do that? Because he doesn't want to pay taxes. It didn't make sense to do that. People were saying that he was strapped for cash and he needed money.

So that's why he had to sell to get that money. And then he ended up getting tax for it. So I just thought it was, am I? Didn't you know that? So, I mean, Donald Trump has lived a couple of different lives. Okay. There is certainly a version of Donald Trump in the late 70s and all throughout the 80s that during the boom of American greed,

during the Wall Street takeover of America's economy, was the poster child for excess and success. So Donald Trump made some money. The question is how much and for how long. So there's no doubt about the fact that he was born on third base, as was Elon Musk and different people born on different various bases. But he certainly at some point had some sort of business success. That's true. Yeah.

But as of recent, as he was running for president, I thought the narrative was this man has made several bad investments. Because what you're talking is like early 90s, right? 80s or early 90s? 80s, early 90s. 80s or 90s? Yeah, but even in the early 90s, there was Donald Trump, all this stuff about him having filed for bankruptcy and all of that stuff. Because I remember Ice Cube video, they called him a broke mac and all of that stuff.

But remember, that is, that's that portion of Donald Trump, right? Then there's another life of Donald Trump, the life of a paid celebrity. That life injected relevancy. and a lot of earning potential back into Donald Trump and attached a specific strength to the Trump name brand. So when a celebrity, so when the apprentice comes along, apprentice does two things. Number one, they directly paid Donald Trump

for his services on the show. It directly goes to smiths, and the apprentice does something else. It lends credibility to the idea that Donald Trump is some sort of business wizard. Sure. Because he's schooling other people on how they should do their business. So that show really kind of like revived him in a lot of ways.

I understand that. It added credibility to the name and the image. But I really thought these last 10 years that narrative had changed. So I guess that was my response to the first part of what you said. I do find it interesting, though, that you think that, let's say that it comes out that he doesn't have any money, which it is being reported that he had more losses than gangs. That's that these preliminary reports are showing that.

I think that it doesn't matter. I don't think it's going to sway votes anyway. I think Trump's done for 2024 anyway. I think he's done. And that's what I mean. I think he's done for 2024. We're not, we're not on the line here with whether or not this is something that's going to be a huge factor in determining the outcome.

of the presidential election in 2024. I just think it's more embarrassing for Trump because he's already an embarrassment, right? And this just piles on and adds to, oh, so you broke too? Oh, okay. We're not going to learn that he's broke. We're going to learn that he has less money than we think that he does. And once again, I do think that it's important for anyone out there that it's actually just important also just to spike the fucking football in what's been a really,

ugly era of American political discourse. And just to kind of put it out there about for some people, the people that can still be talked to, say something real quick. We can only talk to the people who we can talk to. I mean, I'm just being for real. We can only talk to the people we can talk to. The people who we can't talk to, we can't talk to them. But we can only talk to the people that we can talk to. And even if there is somebody there that still might learn a lesson from just the unbelievable way in which they were conned.

Maybe it's worth something, but I see your point. Sean Hannity. Sean Hannity. According to a New York Times report was deposed earlier this year as a part of a defamation lawsuit brought forward by Dominion

voting systems against Fox News. case you guys don't remember, Fox News, O-A-N, N, Newsmax, all of these people came at Dominion voting systems and said they were corrupt, that they had been hacked, that they didn't know what they were doing, and this was the way the Democrats were able to perpetrate this widespread voter fraud, because all of these voting machines are good. ran on Dominion software. And they kept saying this over and over and over again, and you would hear this on the right.

Dominion said, fuck you guys were suing you. And Fox is different because Fox is a multi-billion dollar company. Sure. Right? So Fox is able to kind of like play it a little bit, slow play it a little bit. But it was hysterical to watch the newsmax and OANN people.

like whenever somebody would bring up. Donnie, I know you know this clip. There's a clip of somebody going on. I think it was Newsmax. And slightly intimating that there was voter fraud. And the guy jumps right in and says, hey, hey, Newsmax can't in any way

say that there was photo fraud. And we'll tell you straight up right now. There's been no evidence of that. Donnie, if you can find that, I want you to play it right now. What happened with your Twitter account and the company page? Well, first, mine was taken down because we have all the election fraud with these dominion machines. We have 100% proof. And then when they took it down a three weeks ago, and then put it back up, my personal, I put it.

Mike, thank you very much. Mike, you're talking about machines that we at Newsmax, not being able to verify any of those kinds of allegations. We just want to let people know that there's nothing substantive that we've seen. And let me read you something there. While there were some clear evidence of some cases of vote fraud and election of regularities, the election results in every state were certified and Newsmax accepts the results as legal and final. The courts have also supported that view. So we wanted to talk to you about canceling culture. if you will.

We don't want to relitigate the allegations that you're making, Mike. This brings back to Sean Hannity, who is a liar. According to the times, Sean Hannity, when he was deposed, said that he did not believe for one second that there was widespread election fraud in 2020, despite some of his greatest hits being to the contrary. Donnie,

Give us on Hannity on voter front. But first, tonight, many Americans do not believe that this election was fair and make no mistake. Every American has a right to feel that way. I feel that way. It's a corrupt and an embarrassing disgrace. We, you, the American people, deserve more. We are capable of so much more. What did Joe Biden get less than a thousand people to tune in for his Thanksgiving Day message?

But was supposed to believe he got 15 million more votes. than Barack Obama and 15 million more than Hillary. And he underperform with minorities in every major city except Georgia, Milwaukee, Philly, Detroit, and Nevada. Democrats, they just want to try and block any and all audit of what are now growing examples, and, frankly, affidavits of ballot irregularities and outright illegality. Senator, is it a fair statement to say that now,

that the law was violated and election observers were not allowed in the room and were not allowed to have their rights by law that it invalidates the election. Now, on local level, there have been election do-overs. I'm not saying for the whole country, but in a state

that can prove that the law was violated. Rachel? It's not funny. I'm just really trying to think of what to say. It's not even that I'm shocked that he doesn't believe. It's just this is a network. This is a man.

This is a show that continues to put out this rhetoric about fake news, fake news, when you're the one who's putting out the fake news. And God knows what else. What's sad is, we're talking about this, and we're the people that don't need to hear this. The people that need to hear this won't either ever hear it or won't believe it and will continue to call their own fake news, fake news, like this fake news. It's just wild to me that you're somebody who is on television and you're, this is journalism, and it's supposed to be, I know people, especially an older generation, who believes every single

thing that they see on the television. And it is our responsibility who are those people who are on television to do the research and provide the truth. That's journalism, right? The truth to the public. And they're supposed to believe that the things that you're presenting are that. And the fact that this man outright lied, knew he was lying, but continued this narrative for ratings. It's like, what is this place? Where are we? And it won't. And the saddest thing, Van, is that, None of this will even matter. The people who want to believe that it's fake news or that he didn't say it or that the media has twisted all of this will believe that. And the other people will believe this, what he said in his deposition.

Okay. Once again, Rachel Downer, it doesn't, Rachel, it doesn't matter, Lindsay. Okay. All right. It won't. I want you. Okay. You're not wrong.

but let me tell you how we could possibly be right. Please. Okay, I'll tell you how. In my opinion, there is still married to talking about this and I'll tell you why. There are people who aren't in the Fox News Information silo that still believe that there's no difference in any of these news sources. Oh, yeah. There is a refrain that goes out. And the refrain is left, right, Fox, CNN is all the same.

And I can understand why people think that. Because the way that you judge whether or not something is different is not whether or not they're different. It's whether or not you're different, right? So it's like if you elect the, one guy's student council president, he's nice and you like him, but the lunch is still cold, and you elect another guy, student council president, and you don't like him, he's a racist asshole, and the lunch is still cold, then you say it doesn't matter who we elect, it's all the same, right?

And that's a broad way of looking at it. And so there are a lot of people from all different walks of life who say, hey, I'm getting bullshit it here. I'm getting bullshit it there. This is slanted. That is slanted. The left is this way. The right is this way. It's all the same. And I understand that because there hasn't been as most progress as a lot of people want. And I'm not a shill for the left. The fact is that's just not true. Okay. Okay. That's really not true. Not even in a like a, not even in a, I'm talking to just like a, in a real way. That's not true. There's one side that is markedly worse. Sure. And they're incentivized to be that way.

Yes. By an increasingly vicious fan base, excuse me, vicious voter base, they won't accept anything less than them going fucking DefCon one on every single situation or DefCon five. I don't know which one it is really. Fan base works as well. Fan base works.

Same. So that's why this point. That's why this makes this is interesting to talk about because if your news is slanted, that's one thing. Right. If your news is an outright lie, that's worse. So if you, there's a part of human beings that you can't like detach it. Like if you, if I'm right now reporting on something in Ferguson, right?

and I report on and if I have to report that Darren Wilson is acquitted for killing Mike Brown you know I am going to report that and you're probably going to be able to tell that that's a disappointment to me

reporting it in a way that people go you could tell he's invested and he's biased on it is different than saying that it happened in a different way it's different than an outright lie And I think that we're starting to confuse those things. If you listen to CNN,

no doubt there's a liberal slant. If you listen to MSNBC, no doubt there's a liberal slant. Those are coastal elites. That's a fact. They're not lying, though. Like, not to this degree. Like, they're not, like, this is, in Sean Hannity, this is someone who has a set of intellectual facts that he knows to be true.

But is running with the narrative. This is like Joseph Gerbill's propaganda. type almost authoritarian state bullshit coordinated with the president of the United States, Fox became state-run news for President Trump and remains

that way for it's just a weird thing. Like people have to understand the seriousness of the world's biggest cable news provider being this deeply compromised. And we have got to talk about it

no matter what. And hopefully people on our side will realize, not even our side, hopefully people who are, fuck the sides. Hopefully people who are open to having a conversation realize that it's not all the same. But this is where, this is where people say the people who are paying for this, for Sean Hannity's show to be on, who are sponsoring it, who are supporting it, because we can't count on Fox as a network to do anything. You can't tell me their hands weren't dirty.

And then they had, they had a part in perpetuating these lies, right? I wouldn't be shocked as Sean Hannity did his show. So, like, they got off the air and he was like, I can't believe I've got to fucking talk about this election. You know, we all know the Joe Biden one. He probably said that to a room full of people. Everybody was fully aware of what, I'm assuming, but everybody was fully aware of what he was doing.

This is where you expect the people that are keeping the lights on to pull their support. If you're a sponsor on Sean Hannity Show or Fox Network, period, you shouldn't want your name and brand affiliated with a network that is okay with lying to millions of people. That's the call we need to be making because that's the only way that Fox is actually going to do something if it hurts their pockets. It works every time. I want you go ahead get on the phone to my pillow and see if you can get in the pool. Well, that's not their only spot. Elon Musk was musky.

Okay? He's musky. He's musky. All y'all musk fans out there, y'all kind of musky to me. Y'all smell musky. Yeah, I don't like the way y'all look. I don't like the way you smell.

I like the way you talk. I don't like the guy. Aaron Rupar might like him, might not. He has reason not to like him. We'll see how he feels about it. bottom. He's one of the journalists that was banned off Twitter by Elon Musk. He joins us on the other side of this break on higher learning to tell us about what it's been like since he was kicked off Twitter. God damn it. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable

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Ask your doctor about trim fire. Tap this ad to learn more about trim fire, including important safety information. Okay, guys, there are turbulent times going on at Twitter right now. We don't know what to make of anything. We're not sure who's going to be running Twitter soon. We're not sure what the terms and conditions of staying on Twitter are. We don't know what anything is a completely destabilizing force by the name of Elon Musk, who has made Twitter into his own personal cult

where that's what he's attempting to do. And journalists are coming under fire. We've seen some journalists recently suspended over claims of doxing and other things. Meanwhile, these journalists just say that they're doing their jobs, which is, of course, to report

on not just the richest man in the world, but the goings-on at Twitter and everything else. One of these esteemed journalists that was unceremoniously booted from Twitter who is now back on Twitter, his name Aaron Rupar, who is an independent journalist covering the U.S. politics and media,

an author of Public Notice. He joins us today on higher learning. Aaron, my first question to you is, what exactly were you kicked off Twitter for? I was kicked off Twitter for sharing a link to a Facebook page that tracks Elon's private jet. And it actually took me a number of hours last Thursday when I was suspended to figure that out because I heard nothing from Twitter directly.

And the other thing that I had in common with the group of journalists who was booted off that night is that we've all been critical in one way or another of Elon Musk. And so I think that had something to do with it as well. And I think at least at the time, the intention seemed to be to kind of put a chill on critical coverage and criticism by booting myself and other prominent critics of the owner of the platform off the platform. So yeah, I mean, it was pretty baffling. when it happened. The tweet that resulted me getting kicked off was such a nothing tweet that it didn't even occur to me that it might have been the reason, you know, for many hours until actually a reporter who was reporting out the story of the suspensions asked me if I had posted anything

about the Elon jet stuff. And to back up just one more step, basically what had happened was on Wednesday the day before I was banished. Elon banned an account on Twitter that tracked his jet. But that account lived on Facebook. And so all I did was post a tweet. saying, hey, this account might be dead on Twitter, but if you still want to follow it on Facebook, here's the link. So, you know, it wasn't like I was doing some sort of expose or investigated reporting. It was just sharing a link to a Facebook page. But, you know, Elon, whether he's being sincere about it or not, claim that this represented

a safety threat to his family, which is pretty far-fetched for obvious reasons, and kick me off. So that's the story. Yeah, Aaron, we touched on this a little bit on our last podcast, and we're so. excited to have you on. Hate what happened to you, but excited to have you on. I want to back up and talk about how this, because a lot of people might feel detached from it, right? You know, they're not an independent journalist. You know, they're not really in the space. But I want to talk about how you got on Twitter, built this platform, used this platform for what I believe you called, referred to as professional currency. And then how this direct act affects you, your career,

and other independent journalists. Yeah, thanks for that question because I think, you know, it's not something that everybody necessarily cares about, nor should they, but basically I would not have been able to start a business and go solo had it not been for Twitter. And I think myself and other people kind of in my position who built huge followings over the years, you sort of take it for granted because I think we had sort of regarded Twitter as almost like a public square of sorts where there were rules and there was transparency and

processes. And so maybe that was a little bit naive because it's always been a private company. And now that Elon bought it and took it private where it's no longer even publicly traded, there's even less accountability. And it's basically his dictatorship. And it's his right as the owner of the platform to kick us off if he wants to. But I'm sure you guys as well, you know, in the space of being, you know, creators of doing content online, journalism, we've all come to rely to varying extents on Twitter to talk to sources, to gather information. I mean, we've all related over the years to news events happening on Twitter and hopping on there just to talk about them or get up to speed with the latest developments. And that's a really important

function in kind of our news ecosystem and just our cultural ecosystem that I don't think any other social media platform quite replicates. And so it really would be a loss, you know, if Twitter went totally off the rails like it seems to be doing right now. But the thing for me specifically is that losing access to that following that I have, you know, which is like 800,000 people now or, you know, more than that after this incident kind of causes a surge of people following me, is that, you know, it cuts me off from the pool of people who are my readers, who are my subscribers. You know, when I publish newsletters, I try to get new eyeballs to look at them based on my Twitter audience. And so, you know, when you get that abruptly taken away from you, my first thought, you know,

when I was, my first emotion when I was suspended was kind of despondency because it was like, wow, you know, what's this going to mean for my livelihood? How am I going to continue to make a living? Now, as it turned out, it kind of turned me in. to this folk hero internationally. And, you know, it ended up in some ways being one of the better things that's happened to me professionally because this past week has been quite surreal doing all sorts of TV hits and international media hits, domestic hits, radio, podcasts, you name it. And so it's brought probably more attention to my work than I think just about anything else

that's happened in my career. But, you know, the fact that Elon has this power to just sort of kick people off for very spurious reasons really can have negative consequences, not only for us who are affected, but I think, you know, if Twitter really was to go away, there would be a huge void for everybody, everybody, just in terms of following the news, understanding what's going on in our country and our world. Yeah, and the quickness in which you get the news as well. Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about Elon Jet. There are people who are, I've talked to a lot of people who don't seem to understand what the news value of tracking his Jet is. And they go, oh, I wouldn't want somebody tracking where I'm going or how I move around or anything like that. Tell us a little bit about Elon Jet, the particular Twitter and Facebook destination and why this is so controversial and has become such a flashpoint in this entire conversation. I think it's kind of baffling that it's so controversial because I mean, I think we all can think of instances in the past where this sort of information is used in

basic news reporting. I mean, I think about how many college football coaches have taken interviews at one place or another and it becomes a news story when their jet lands and we do it all the time like yeah like ellis hugh's like oh his jet was seen in here he might be taking this job we do it all the yeah no i remember you know being a minnesota when the viking signed brett farv in 2009 that was a big story because there was a private jet that went from minnesota with some players think jared allen was on the flight and some others down to mississippi to meet with barb and then they flew back with him and so that was kind of a big you know that was when it really got real that barb was going to signed with the Vikings was when the Vikings jet went down there and got him. And, you know, so at no point,

I mean, the notion that that represents some sort of safety risk is pretty far-fetched because, like, also consider how big airports are. I mean, just that because you know someone's jet is at LAX does not mean that you're going to be able to track that person down at LAX. And so, you know, so, and not only that, the fact that this, you know, that Elon jet was banned does not prevent people from tracking Elon's jet. You can go directly to the source and still get that information. This account, Elon Jet, was a bot that was set up by a college student who's actually a huge fan of Elon, ironically, to gather information, basically ping the jet that Elon uses when it's in the air in detail what airport is traveling to and which one it left from, basically. So it's just kind of basic information that's publicly available. Now, I've seen in reporting about this controversy since the account was banned that, like, Mark Cuban paid this kid off to get him to stop tracking his jet.

and Elon has tried at various points to get this kid to stop by offering him incentives. I think the kid was negotiating actually for an internship, which Elon wasn't willing to give him. But so the controversy from Elon's standpoint is that he views this as representing some sort of safety risk to his family. He, you know, cited this incident that occurred in Southern California where allegedly a stalker was following his kids. There was a bunch of follow-up reporting on this that revealed that the incident in question actually, happened a day after his private jet landed in LAX. So there's no obvious connection to any sort of flight tracking. And the only person who has been singled out as like a criminal suspect is one of Elon's security members who allegedly hit someone with a car. So the whole incident is

quite shrouded in mystery and it's still unclear exactly what happened. But the long and short of it is that there doesn't seem to be any connection with this flight tracking stuff. So to me, it seems pretty clear the problem is more one of embarrassments. Or, you know, there's a reason that Elon doesn't want people tracking his jet around. I don't really think it has to do with safety. But, you know, I'm open to. What's that sort of safety risk? I'm not deeply committed to this idea that, you know, we need to track his jet everywhere.

But I would just point out that this is publicly available information that's been used in news reporting for decades. And so the idea that suddenly there's this grave security threat or it's an invasion of privacy, I just don't really think follows. You, one second, right? You seem to sit, well, you said that you feel like there's a reason other than safety that people don't want, that he doesn't want people tracking his jet. What is that reason? I think it could be as simple as embarrassment.

I mean, some of the flights that his jet was taking were like from San Jose to San Francisco type situations where, you know, it's in the air for five minutes. And I don't know if he necessarily needs to be embarrassed by that. But I would suspect it's something like that. I mean, you know, I'd be curious to get his, you know, fuller thoughts or more honest thoughts on it. But the other thing I'd point out is that, you know, Facebook has no problem with this page. There's no implication that this is a threat on Facebook,

that they're going to take the page down or anything. And so it was just a weird battle for him to pick, even, you know, even more so because he specifically in a tweet a couple months ago said that his commitment to free speech extended all the way to this Elon Jett account, which he would allow to exist on Twitter. And so that, was the angle for me, you know, when I just made note on my feed of the fact that the Facebook page was still up, for me it was kind of like very hypocritical from his standpoint to say,

you know, very directly and publicly that he was okay with his account, then to walk that back and make this big show out of banning it and kind of throw a tantrum over it. So again, you know, if there is some sort of safety risk that I'm not aware of, I'm certainly, I don't want to endanger anybody. And I think obviously, if there is a risk, then, you know, maybe there is a good reason for accounts like this not to exist. But if that was the case, then, you know, we use flight trackers all the time. You know, there's going to have to be a broader conversation about this information being available on the internet as widely as it is. Seeing how this information is out there to the public already, past Twitter and Facebook,

Do you think that this is a gateway for Elon Musk to do more things like this or worse? Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, I think we've seen that. You know, I talked just this morning from my newsletter with Lynette Lopez. She's a reporter at Insider, who she was suspended on Friday of last week, which was a day after me. And she was just reinstated on Tuesday of this week. And it actually took her getting officials at Insider involved. with Twitter to try and get her back on the platform. And Twitter had no communications with her.

She found out, you know, much later, once Insider got involved, that the problem was she had posted a court document that had Elon Musk's email address visible on it, which I guess you can argue, you know, that that's like a form of doxing, I suppose, to reveal someone's email like that. But she didn't know that for days and days. There was no communication. And she has a history of investigating Elon's company. She's done investigations of Tesla and of Elon's finances. And so it seemed pretty clear that it was a form of retaliation against her because Elon has a beef with her. And so, you know, I definitely think that these wave of suspensions, including myself and other reporters, seems to be, as I kind of mentioned earlier, intended at having a chilling effect, making people like myself think twice,

you know, if we're going to post something critical of Elon. Because in my case, you know, one other tidbit that's relevant here is that the tweet that got me banned, I posted on Wednesday morning. Wednesday evening was when Elon announced this new terms of service where you couldn't link to any accounts tracking his jet or his movements at all. And so I ended up being banished for a tweet that when I posted it didn't violate any terms, but only later on was determined to have done that. And so, you know, the point being that if he can kind of make it up as he goes and just come up with new rules that, you know, that can get journalists in trouble for specific things that they post, then none of us can feel safe that we can count on our Twitter account still being there in the future.

And so I'm sure that's part of it, but I guess I would also point out, I think this has backfired pretty spectacularly on Elon. You know, in the early days of his ownership, he would do these polls. And usually you can kind of tell the result that he wants from these polls. and typically early on they would go his way where the results would come in consistent with what he wanted the result to be. He posted a poll earlier this week about if he should step down from Twitter. And I think it ended up being like 59, 41 people saying he should step down. And then he basically didn't tweet for a whole day after that.

So I think he was maybe a little bit surprised that people were like, no, go away. So I really don't think this has done him any favors. I mean, just before we hopped on this call, I was looking at there's been a lot of reporting. today about Tesla's stock price, which is down like 20% over the past weeks. And, you know, is that like a historic low as the trading stop today? And so it does really seem like it's going quite poorly for him. And so I wonder if, you know, maybe he'll learn some lessons from this. Of course, he has now announced that he is intending to step down when he can find someone else to run the company for him. And I think he'd be well served to find someone who will be a little bit less erratic and maybe

enforce the rules more even handedly. It's really breathtaking the change in public perception of Elon Musk over the last six, seven years. I remember thinking about him. I was much, much less educated on him as I am now, thinking about him as some sort of visionary who was going to figure out how to get you from Boston to L.A. an hour and a half in the hyperloop underground. He was going to put people on Mars.

And he's gone from that to being. one of the most petulant, immature, classic examples of the problems with hypercapitalism. He's like the problem child for this

new age robber barren sort of American abuse of power and money that we've seen in the last couple of years. That's my estimation of Elon Musk outside looking in. You've reported on him.

You've essentially Aaron gone toe to toe with him at this point. What's your estimation of Elon Musk? Yeah. So I should say in this connection that I really didn't pay much attention to him until he got involved with Twitter. Interesting. I had kind of a passing understanding of Tesla and SpaceX and what, you know,

what those companies represented and what they were. And so I guess I had respect for him in that context because obviously Tesla, you know, the way he's built that out into this, you know, I mean, at least before very recently into this highly profitable company, sort of the gold standard for electric vehicles. You know, SpaceX is universally respected as well. And so, you know, I kind of had just a layperson's admiration for his work. But I think since he's gotten involved with Twitter, it's clear what his agenda has been. You know, he was upset over Trump being banished.

He was upset over people being suspended for spreading public health information, misinformation. And so he's kind of come at this with this. right-wing agenda that I think also he hasn't been very honest about because, you know, his whole thing at first was that he was a radical free speech person. He wanted more speech, not less. And then he suspends people like me who are just trying to conduct speech on his platform, you know, which is kind of a bad look. You know, before the midterm elections, he explicitly asked people to vote Republican, you know, which I think kind of undercut this idea that he's a centrist or he doesn't belong to either party. So, yeah, I mean, I think he's done grave, grave damage to his

brand, not only personally, but, you know, in terms of Tesla and SpaceX and the other companies that he's involved with. And so that's unfortunate. I guess it goes to show. I think he thought, you know, honestly, that he would be viewed as this hero. And I do think within a certain segment of the populace, maybe that is the case, you know, among Trump supporters, people who feel like Twitter has been unfair to them. And I've gotten a lot of this, you know, when I was suspended and reinstated, a lot of people in my replies who are Trump supporters or right-wingers kind of saying, well, now the shoe is on the other foot. How does it feel? As though what I did was equivalent with spreading public health misinformation or telling people not get vaccinated, things like that.

But I do think there is kind of this grievance that people on the right have about feeling like Twitter came after them, you know, in a way different than they were with people on the left. I would kind of draw distinction between the sort of stuff I do in the platform and spreading deadly misinformation or inciting an insurrection, organizing a coup attempt, those sorts of things. But yeah, I mean, I think among people who are kind of more moderate and on the left side of the political spectrum, I don't really think Elon can come back from this. And so that's unfortunate for him. For you. I'm curious. And maybe this is your thought or maybe not and maybe some of the other suspended. journalists as well. Do you feel like you second guess at this point what you post on the platform? And also, have you thought about transitioning from this platform after this?

Yeah, I have had some second thoughts. I mean, even today, I ran, as I mentioned earlier, this Q&A with Lynette Lopez. And she was reinstated on Tuesday evening. But I'd already conducted, the interview was already done before then with her. So the interview was done while she was still suspended. I was worried as I was prepping that for publication that maybe this would be, you know, because since she was banned from the platform, that maybe this would be construed as her circumventing a ban on Twitter and that I could be punished for publishing a newsletter, you know, with her being interviewed because she's banned from the platform. And like, for instance, Twitch has a policy where if someone has banned from a Twitch stream and you feature them on there, you can get banned.

It's like ban evasion. And so I was worried about that. You know, yeah, just in general, I don't want to pull punches because I think that would compromise kind of what I'm up to as a journalist, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that there is kind of like, is it worth it kind of taking a pot shot at him even because it seems like, again, he can kind of make up reasons to ban people. And I don't want to get banned if I can help it, even though, you know, it wasn't all negative for me by any means. But then the second part of your question, you know, looking at other platforms, I mean, yeah, definitely this caused me to get going on post news, which I think is probably the closest. thing on offer right now to being some sort of Twitter replacement. We can kind of get into that if you're curious. I mean, there are things about posts that I don't think are that awesome, but there are things about it on the other hand that I like, and I do think it has some upside. It doesn't have anywhere near the scale of Twitter at this point. But so I was heartened to start an account on there. I think I already have over like 70,000 followers, which for post is pretty high numbers. So like that already feels like a pretty good toehold. And then next week,

when the news is a little bit slower, I'm hoping to get busy on Mastodon. as well, which Mastodon takes a little more technical expertise than I think a lot of people have because you kind of have to understand how servers work. And each server has different moderation policies. And so there are layers of complexity that Twitter or post news or Facebook doesn't have. But, you know, I guess the broader picture is that I don't think any of these platforms right now are close to being a suitable Twitter replacement. But I would just, you know, the thought experiment for me, you know, being in my late 30, like when I was in college, MySpace was dominant and everybody was on MySpace. And then a couple of years, Facebook kind of crowded them out and everybody was on

Facebook. And now for news, Facebook is kind of declined. Everybody's on Twitter. People are on TikTok now. And so these things evolve. And I think that Twitter kind of going down the tubes, like it seems to be, creates market opportunities. And we're already seeing, you know, some people kind of, you know, companies rise up to sort of to fill, to fill the void. So to speak. So I'm not worried over the long term. I mean, I think two, three years from now, we'll probably look upon the decline of Twitter as being sort of a quaint thing that happened. And we'll all be on some platform that we haven't even thought of yet, you know, talking to each other. But yeah, it definitely inspired me this experience to more actively explore

alternatives and to try to get busy, you know, generating followings on them. Aaron, it seems like you don't think that Twitter will survive Elon Musk. You know, I think it's too soon to say because I do think that there's a chance with all of this bad publicity swirling around him that he will just try to wash his hands of it to some extent and hire someone with a little more credibility to run it. So I don't want to totally, I don't want to like rule that out. I think that could very well, that could be the way that this plays out. Of course, even if he hired someone, ultimately he would still be the owner and pulling the strings behind the scenes. And so I'm sure he would hire someone who is kind of an ideological bedfell. of his, you know, just on the right wing.

Yeah. Well, Ray, I mean, Donald Trump, dude, I just on Instagram last night, he was, he was putting his name out there. He was saying, you know, Elon call me basically. Right. Yeah. But I think that's also, you know, because one of the fun things about Twitter is that it's kind of the one platform where people on the left and right kind of do battle, you know, because we're all kind of on there, right? You know, but like social, it's all right-wingers or even like post-news is mostly people on the left.

Maston is mostly people on the left. And so that is kind of a unique dynamic with Twitter that I think would be a shame to lose. And it's not only just politics. It's also brands, sports teams, public figures, like everybody has a perch on Twitter. But I think that if we keep going down this path of it being really unpredictable and people like me being punished, you know, as people who are, you know, the right wingers who are always in Elon's replies and who Elon is replying to getting rewarded, I think we're going to get to a point where, you know, public figures and brands, and we've already seen some of this, are going to probably make the decision that it's no longer worth being on Twitter. If you're running one of the White House Twitter accounts,

for instance, right now, at what point do you say it's not worth it for us to validate this platform by keeping, you know, by continually posting on it? Maybe we're better off just reassessing what we're doing on social media altogether. And so I think, you know, we could get to a point where there's more of a consumer revolt, you know, are people leaving the platform in droves? We've already seen some of that, but people who have big platforms deciding to leave. that would be really bad. So, you know, I am rooting in some way for Twitter to survive. And I just hope that Elon kind of removes himself from the picture because I think we've seen enough to know that he's quite erratic and it's not going to go well as long as he's meddling

every day. My last question was going to be predictions for 2020, or in 20203 for Twitter, but you kind of just answered it right there with that last answer. So I guess we shall see what happens. I mean, on that note, I think that I do think to me the most likely scenario is that at some point between too long, at some point not too long from now, Elon appoint someone as CEO who will be, have more credibility and kind of stay out of things, try to sort of bring back some sense of normalcy on the platform. And I do think that things, my prediction will be that my prediction is I think things will

stabilize on Twitter. And maybe that's kind of, maybe I'm rooting for that. so it's kind of coloring my perception a little bit. But I think for everybody involved, I don't think it makes sense for Elon financially to really tank this because he owes a lot, you know, billions, tens of billions of dollars. And those debt payments are going to be harder to make

if no one's actually on the platform and using it. So I think he has, even as one of the richest people in the world, he has incentives to try to make this work more effectively than he's done so far. All right, Aaron, we appreciate you coming on higher learning. Look, I didn't know about the Minnesota Vikings thing. the next time you're on here, me being from Louisiana,

we're going to have to talk about the game. Oh, boy. We're going to, we're going to. Yeah. I need to prepare mentally for that conversation because that was one of the, that was one of my most traumatic sporting experiences. Actually, that was just one note on that.

I got together with a bunch of my high school buddies for that game. And it was kind of the last time with my crew, high school friends that we all got together at once and watched that game. And we were so sad when it ended. I remember just sitting in silence. about five minutes. And at that time, we had a ping pong table

in the house that I was in downstairs. And we all kind of silently got up and started playing ping pong and that was how we got through it. As a Vikings fan, that was really, really tough. It's a tough one.

It's a tough one. Brett, Brett, threw it away. All right, Aaron Rupar. You guys, follow him at A.T. Rupar on Twitter.

That's at A.T.R. U.P.A.R. He is literally one of the best follows on Twitter. Keeps you up dating in the know on everything important that's going on in U.S. politics. Thank you for joining us today. Thanks for me. My pleasure. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways.

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I got to tell you something. I kind of agree with the GOP slash Republicans on something. It's weird. I kind of agree with them on this. It's weird. Rachel, I'm not so sure we shouldn't ban TikTok. I'm just now really kind of getting my TikTok game together. I know. I'm not so sure we shouldn't ban TikTok. I have, I've been really diving deep into the TikTok situation.

And it pains me. But TikTok is deeply, deeply problematic. Are they right about it for the wrong reasons? Are they just all around right in your research? Because they could be motivated, they could be right, but they could have been motivated by the wrong reasons and got to the right answer. It's not just people on the right that are calling for a really deep look into TikTok. It's people on both sides of the aisle.

However, right now, it is only a lot of GOP-led states that are banning TikTok on federal devices as part of ending year spending bill. but these states are North Dakota, Iowa, Idaho, Texas, South Dakota, South Carolina, Maryland, Utah, Oklahoma, Alabama, New Hampshire, Georgia's Purple State, Tennessee, Montana. It's a lot. Yeah, yeah, this is a band on federal devices. Look, Nebraska has had its ban in place since 2020, so it's a Florida Department of Financial Services, Louisiana and West Virginia each announced partial bans.

Okay. Now, I want to make sure that I discuss this in the proper context because there's two ways that this can be discussed. Okay. One way that this can be discussed is as part of sort of the entire

globule of anti-China, which then gets equated to anti-Asian sentiment that popped up during and post the pandemic. What ended up happening was

the conversation around China was so the conversation around China was so basic and lacked nuance to such a degree that it ended up sparking an entire worldwide movement of Asian hate. We know that, right? Yes, it did.

And it seemed as if it was being done purposely at times. All right. Having said that, there is the reality of the Chinese government. And the reality of the Chinese government is that it's a very secretive, authoritarian, vicious regime that has a brutal and abhorrent record on human rights. That's just facts. Yes. Now, it seems weird as Americans sometimes for us to look down our nose of people when the way we have treated black people in this country, the slaughter of natives in this country, the treatment of women in this country, the treatment of gay and trans people in this country. It seems weird for us to look down our nose at another culture or another country in this way. But these are the facts about China. And another fact about China is that they are in a vicious economic and political war with the United States, a desperate one. The biggest threat to U.S. superpower status is China and China is

coming on. So you'd wonder about whether or not China's regime being the flag bear in the entire world is a good thing. You wonder if it's good for the United States. I'm just saying I'm not trying to talk about both sides of my mouth. But China is using TikTok to spy on America. It's fucking real. I don't know what else to say. It's just fucking facts. Like it, it, uh, the director of the FBI recently warned that the Chinese government can control TikTok's content algorithm within the United's allowing it to perpetuate influence operations with within the United States. Okay. There are two ways that TikTok is bad. Number one is I saw something on Jake Tapper when they were talking to a white guy from TikTok. They were talking about the fact that because

TikTok is a Chinese company, there's a different version of TikTok in China but because TikTok here is still a Chinese company, they have the duty to share all of their information with the government. That means

whatever the Chinese government wants to know about the users and the data on TikTok, they have to, by law, share that information with the Chinese government. Now, a lot of people are out there saying hey,

can't that happen anywhere? Can't any different place can Facebook be hacked? Can all these different people be hacked? All of that stuff. It's true. Can people look into your stuff and all of that

and give it to the government? They definitely can. But it's illegal. In China, it's legal. And secondly, the manipulation of the algorithm to the American child, the differences between

what the Chinese version of TikTok is promoting to kids and what the American version of the TikTok is promoting. than the kids. It's wild. I was shocked. I was shocked to learn what an issue.

I don't think I've ever felt like this before in terms of an app. And we all know that this shit is bad for us, but. But deliberately setting their children up for a different future on an app that has ours just sucked all the way in. And I'll be very honest with you. And as a fellow TikToker, people like our videos on TikTok. I was against the app. And I was like, when's Van getting a TikTok? I have seen me go from being overwhelmed with TikTok and spending two minutes on it to

catching myself and being like, oh my God, it's been 20 minutes and I'm still looking at TikToks. And I'm 37. I can only imagine what that does to a generation that is growing up in this type. of world. And they're purposely feeding. This is why this one, this one got me.

They're purposely feeding our children this, knowing what it can do to them and setting theirs up for a totally different future by showing them science, projects and history and all of that kind of stuff. This is an odor of a top. So you're a, you're, uh, you're far right on this issue.

Shut up. This is an odor of a topic. We need to get somebody on TikTok, somebody from TikTok on a talk. show. Because and the question I want to know is why should we continue using it? Why? Like, do they

have my information? Should I like, I'm entertained by it but I'm not, I'm not, I'm not getting news by it. Well, that's actually not true. I actually learned things from TikTok. It's actually that. TikTok. Like TikTok says that they are I watch an interview

with the guy, Jake Tapper. I sat down and and I watch it. Watch it a couple of times. They said that they are dedicated to two things. Number one, convincing Americans, and that they're doing this already, that their data and that their privacy is safe in the same way that it's safe with other apps,

that there's no specific danger of China having any sort of read on what's going on with us any more than there is in any other app, and they're going to prove that by working with Oracle, by working with different companies to provide better security on Titi. And number two, that they are also committed to looking into the algorithm itself and auditing it for its content and what it's showing the kids.

There was one interesting part of this interview that really bothered me, though. Okay. So Jake Tapper's talking to this guy. Got to look at this guy's name. Got to look at this guy's name. And he asks him because there's a belief. that there are certain terms on TikTok that are banned, not for the reasons that you think that they're banned.

So I think on TikTok terms like concentration camp are banned, like work camp are banned, like genocide are banned. There are certain things like that that are banned on TikTok, right? And there's a belief that those things aren't banned because of their, connection to the Holocaust. They're not banned because that they're violent or destabilizing or

just bad, but they're banned because they don't want people to make TikToks about the condition of the Uyghurs in China and the genocide that the government is perpetuating

against its own people. That those things, that those bans are in order to be able to suppress, knowledge of that situation that's happening right now with a specific group of people in China without that becoming something that goes viral. So he asked the guy about it. Yeah. Michael Beckerman.

Michael Beckerman is the guy. He asked him, and he asked him whether or not that was happening to the Uyghurs in China. And he wouldn't answer the question. and and Jake Jack Tapper he goes now are you not answering this question because if you

answer this question then you and you acknowledge that that's happening in China right now then you'll use then you'll lose your job and we roundabout get to some very soft sort of admission

that there is something happening to have somebody like that over an information platform, an app to that degree, who can't even discuss or admit that one of the biggest human rights violations in the world is actually taking place is wholly insufficient. And the fact that that guy fucking knows that he can't say that, lest he be fired, makes me wonder exactly what the fuck is going on over there. Yeah.

And so I'm on, I'm not a TikTok user anyway. I don't want to like sound the alarm, but it's, it's troubling to, like, it's troubling to a degree. It said, oh, it says right here. Donnie just sent it or no. TikTok executive refuses Jake Tapper's multiple requests to acknowledge China's treatment of the leaders. Nuts. It's tough. Stuff.

Once again, I'm an American. I'm not looking down my nose at any other. the country or anything like that. Whoa. But I'm just saying. Okay. Oh, back to TikTok real quick. I was wondering,

let's do is this fucked up, Donnie. Give me some kind of graphic or some kind of sound for is this fucked up? Is this fucked up? No. We haven't done this in a lot. Yep. All right.

There's a white dude who creates content on TikTok comparing black people and white people. And I don't know, I'm not fucking. talking with this. Like, it's weird to me. It rubs me the wrong way.

And I saw this a couple of days ago on TikTok. I saw this and I thought it like, it made me feel I was gross. I was like, there's something very wrong with this. And I know that black people do. Actually, do they? I was about to say there are black people, you know, comedians on social media that They'll say black versus white. But as I'm saying that, I don't know if that's true.

I know they do what black people do their own people do. But do they do what black people do versus white people do. And is there a difference? I would say yes. Yeah. But I think there's a big difference. I think the big difference. Yeah, to look at them.

It's how we get something off the shelf, how we put an item back on the shelf, how we chill at home. That doesn't make any sense for us to play these because you're not going to be able. I mean, we can, I guess we can. play them. Donnie can play one under my voice if you're watching the podcast, but you know, these are very visual. But basically, I'll walk you through one. And it's not like it's

not true, but you know, the guy's going like how white people get something off the shelf, they smell it, then they take the first one. And he goes, how black people get something off the shelf, they smell it, and then they take the third one to the back. I do that. I reach past

the first one that everybody has touched or fucked with. And I grab the one that's in the back that nobody has really gotten to. I especially do it in the convenience store so I can get the colder shit. I was a trick my dad. We were always taught that pulling a drink. I never got the first newspaper on top. You know, it's, it's we, that's, yes, somehow that got out to all of us.

Yeah. That's what you're supposed to do. I don't like that white people feel so comfortable that a white person feels so comfortable with us that they can talk about what it is that we do. Right. I also don't like to see a white person imitating what black people do. That's what I'm saying. That, right. Yes. I feel like they were different, but okay, sure. I also, my first question when I saw it, I'm like, are you watching videos of what black people do? Because these videos exist out there. There are people who compile the things that black people do when they go to bed, when somebody comes over when they cook there's a whole thing of that so are you watching this and then creating

your own content so now you're creating content off the backs of what black people have already done it's like you're stealing it you're trying to be funny imitating what we do there's so many things that are wrong with this i hated it you know what it's really about damian what's his name say his name i want to bring damian on his name is he's a white tick doctor named dame i want to talk dame dame dame you know what you know what really bothers me about it Because I want white people to get it through their heads that it ain't the same. It's just not. It's not.

I know they think it's the same. Everything is the same. It's the same. We joke on you because we have to. I just be honest with you. We joke on you because we have to. You know why we tell little jokes about how white people walk in the office all happy and get excited for the weekend. You know why we tell jokes about that?

to keep us from tearing the fucking office up. That's why. I know. We tell jokes like this and we laugh about this. We're coping. Fuck y'all got to cope about. Do you know why you would take the one third from the back because you want the highest quality?

Because in your life, every fucking dollar counts. Every dollar counts. You don't want the one that's been sprayed. You don't want the one that's been picked up. you know it's like why people think the fact that they think it's the same after years and years

of kicking you and your nuts from the back just bothers me why can I say the end word shut up shut up you guys you guys joke why can't we joke shut the fuck up

you know what we'll be able to joke if you guys go ahead and live in slavery for 300 years like after that Then it'll be the same. This is my, I have, oh, I have a deal for white people. All the joking will be the same. Everything will be the same.

It'll be both ways. You just owe us 300 years of slavery. Get started. You wouldn't, would you enslave them? You would do that. Is that what you're saying? You would have white slaves. Yeah.

If it was, if it was to get to a better day. a day you would not see because it's three of the end of slavery. Oh my God. I'm sorry. This is wrong. But I drink a mint julep on these motherfuckers. So it's tip for tap when it comes to slavery. I would be a very benevolent slave master though.

Oh, you know what I mean? That is the crazy. I'm sure some of them thought they wore too. Hey, it's different modern times. I would be different. I'd be like, hey, man, you know. y'all look it's hot you know what I mean y'all could knock off for the day go inside chill watch friends you know I'd have different I'd have different acts come to the plantation you know they'd be out there yeah one day how would you punish have Maudly crew what happened and how would you punish I would make them watch Tyler Perry movies it's not gonna be physical I would just make them because we like that shit but they hate it.

I will make them watch Tyler Perry movies. You know what I mean? Make them fucking do dances that they can't comprehend. They like Tyler Perry movies. No, they don't. No, they don't. No, they don't. They love to laugh at Medea.

They think Vidae is so funny. Tell you something else. White people get their, there's not one thing that white people get their racist shit off on more than Tyler Perry. They, if you're, white people can't diss Tyler Perry in front of me. I don't accept it. Only we can talk about Tyler if we want to. Because Tyler's made a lot of funny movies that are fun to watch.

White people can't talk about Tyler Perry. Because what they really saying is nigger, nigger, nigger to me. I'm too insecure for that. So I'm saying if it can be the same for this guy TikTok and right here, I don't want this to happen. But if they want to make a deal, it don't even have to be 300 years. I'll settle for 125.

125. Wow. That's so nice. of you, man. Oh, what, like 125. If it's all the same, hey, just take reparations.

No, that's not enough. I need reparate, because, because, we got to stop this. Stop him, stop,

stop. Reparations is, I want reparations, but it's still not going to be the same because why we get reparations only because of the kicking of the asses.

I would never be able to sit with myself knowing that I don't care how nice I am enslaved somebody. Even if it was retribution? See, that's what's wrong with y'all, niggas. Like, let me tell it. Like, let me tell you.

I'm not talking about, I'm talking about revenge. Let me. I know you're talking about revenge. Oh, vengeful self. Maybe we should take this out. Donnie, should we do this? Donnie, I think we should say. You said, no.

I love it. Yeah, let's keep it. Okay. Oh, I thought Donnie was saying no. Well, I'm just saying, you know. know, it's like if I don't want it, but I'm saying, okay, whatever. I don't, just, hold on, just so people know, I don't want to have slavery. But what I'm saying is, if, if everybody just went, fuck it, we need to zero shit out and we need to make it equal.

That's what we cancel it out for you. That's, that's what it's going to take. So stop acting like it's the same. Dame, Damien, come on the podcast or we on your ass every week. Mail back. Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on, before we go to mail back. Do you like this guy?

I'd never seen him until people started saying he was problematic. No, I don't like this guy. I just told you how uncomfortable it makes me feel. It's disturbing to me. And the fact that he thinks it's okay. And I was looking at the comments. What do you call it when you do?

When you look at the comments? Comment autopsy. A lot of people are like, Who told you we do that? How did he get it right? And see, that's why he feels emboldened to do that. Y'all got to stop. It's not okay, especially the one he did with the fire alarm.

I didn't like that at all. I don't know. I don't dig none of it. I don't dig none of it. All right, it's mailback time. Mailback time. Time to read your letters and then we'll reply to them. Oh, it's mailback.

time write us with your queries and we'll chime in all right uh first one is from hold on actually do you want to switch off on these yeah totally yeah okay cool i'll start from the top who this is from burnagat bernagat sailor who is an artist that most people love that you never understood the appeal of and why billy alish really I think she's super talented. But the obsession, I'm like, I don't get it. The music is so sad to me. Lana Del Rey, too.

Law, Del Rey, got a couple of bangers, man. I mean, there's a song I like of Billy's, but I'm talking, I don't, for the level that she's on, I'm like, I don't get it. What a good question. an artist that most people love that you never understood the appeal of

somebody who you just kind of don't fuck with the shit they're doing I don't know I'd have to think about that like most people I can kind of dig a couple of things is more songs to me but I don't really know any of these new people as much I've got to be honest with you

well you said you've said before that you've kind of felt that way about Beyonce. Nigger, you must be out your motherfucker. Oh, excuse me. No, that was Mr. Carter. J. Z. On Christmas. I'm not talking about neither one of them people.

I have my shit all fucked up. Good for them. I love them both. Every song, every tune. No, I'm saying that I like Rihanna a lot more than I like Beyonce. I like Beyonce. Yeah. Beyonce has great music.

But I would say this up to the actual Beyonce album, Beyonce's first album, And then the album when she came back, the Beyonce album, I really, Beyonce, then Lemonade, and then Renaissance is fucking just amazing. You know what I mean? Like Renaissance is great. But before then, it was really a little hard for me

to connect to Beyonce's music for whatever reason. Told you all. Whatever. Say what you ever say? So if she puts out now, I love it. I think Rihanna is amazing now. Rihanna is the best. Okay.

I don't know. I'll think about that. That's a good question. Let me give an answer, though. I don't want to just, oh, you know who I never understood? You know that give me your location guy? No. Give me your location.

Khalid? Khalid. Yeah, people used to say that he was the greatest of all time. I'd be like, this is cool. He's not whack. But, I don't know. That's my answer. Shout out to that man, by the way.

Donnie next. All right. I got you. I'm such a random pick. I said, wait, Ashley next. Yes. I got you. The next one's from Mason Dark.

Van, you're from Louisiana, known for a connection to voodoo. Do you believe in curses? Have you ever been or felt cursed? How did you get out of this curse? Kind of crazy shit. I will let you guys know. It's also the way Ashley read it.

Yeah. I will let you guys know that both my mother and my sister are hoodoo practitioners. Did she tell you not to say that? It's facts. I don't know. It don't matter what they said. It's facts.

My sister is a Hulu practitioner. My mother is a Hulu practitioner as well. That shit is real. Yeah, I don't think that is real. But the universe works on energy. And the energies of the universe flow through different people in different ways, different objects in different ways, different places in different ways. and those energies are subject to manipulation.

That's all I'm going to say. Okay? That's all I'm going to say. And Ebony knows right now, my dad used to be afraid of it. My dad. I know you said that. That's why I said they told you not to say that on here. My dad would get so scared.

My dad would be like, come here, boy. Your mama and your grandma would date some hoodoo us. You got to watch out. He'd come home with Burger King because he would be afraid to eat after he got to argument. All right, that's enough. Okay, we can do two more or one more. It depends on y'all.

It's up to you guys. Hasty Definition 663 asks, What's the most impactful black movie of the year? 2022. Is it Black Panther? Black Panther? I can't, I'm also like, drawing a blank. That's the most recent one.

So I'm going to say Black Panther right. now. Black Panther was good. I've seen a lot of movies. Some of them that haven't come out yet. But the most impactful is for sure Black Panther. You know what I'm saying? The most impactful is for sure Black Panther.

We wait for a long, for a long time. But you have to remember, I know you guys didn't like it. I know you didn't dig it because you guys didn't like the history behind it, but you don't want to hate on the Woman King. Woman King's highly nominated. A woman. want to hate on the woman king the woman king is fantastic i'd be honest with you you can make an argument that the woman king is as good as black panther maybe a little bit better but um no black panther

i loved black panther i love the woman king both for really great movies the woman king is great great movie all right uh what's the next one okay this one's from icy introvert maria would you rather invite Herschel Walker or Candice Owens to a Christmas party? Oh, definitely after that performance of Crossroads, I'm inviting Herschel. Herschel for sure. He knows how to tell stories, even if they don't make sense. He dances. He seems like a better time.

Yeah. Plus, you can have more fun with Herschel. Yeah, for sure. You know what I mean? You could tell Hersch on all kinds of things that weren't true. You could tell Herschel to dress up. to the party like a dinosaur that was a different dinosaur parties. He'd come as a torontoistore's wrecks.

And then when he gets there, he wouldn't even notice that nobody else was in a dinosaur costume. Correct. See, the thing with Candace is that Candice is smart. She is. That's a smart lady. So you're not going to be able to have as much fun with Candace as you would with Herschel.

You know what I'm saying? You can make Herschel do like an applesauce eating contest with like no spoon. It's just Herschel walker. dip in applesauce, but then he's not competing against anyone, would notice. All kinds of things. Depending on what a party was, you can do, make Herschel be different feet of strength. What? What different beats of strength?

We can have so many things that we can convince Herschel of, like, during this party and just have a great time with Herschel Walker. We wouldn't even need no music. Or entertainment. The whole entertainment of the party would be Hershal. Can you see Hershey? Can you see Herschel right now with like

with applesauce all over his hands? Y'all got any more? It's just to be funny. We're done. Because I can't get that image out of my head. And I'll just see him doing it. And then turn it around and moon walking across. Milwaukee.

I got any more. Where a Mots at? I tell you what. I'll tell you what. Mots. Vampires. Werewolves. Coons.

Coos. I'm a smart cool. We could put Hershey in a cap and gown and do it. Graduate. It's fun. We can have so much fun of hers. All right. That's enough.

You got unexpected out of the week? Yes. Wait. Do you have one? You go first. Ron Rivera, the coach of the Washington commanders. There was an amazing video that came out earlier today of him announcing to his players, which guys made the pro bowl. And just the reason why I call it an allies, because there's one guy at the end of the video that is just a hard luck case in the NFL.

If you haven't seen the video, you should watch it, a guy that just has struggled to make. maintain a place in the NFL. And he finally, he got there. He's a Pro Bowl special teamer. And you could tell that Rivera and everybody else, including one of his white teammates, just knew how hard he had worked and what a big deal that was to him. And it was just something amazing to watch on the holidays.

So I'll give a shout out to Ron Rivera for that video. It was really, really special. I thought I had one. I don't. You don't. Okay, fine. But that's nice. That's nice.

Apple sauce eating Apple sauce eating concert between Hershal Walker and Jesse Lee Peterson Hersher Walker

and Jeffey just make them eat apples sauce with their hands the Alabama apples sauce eating contest with the two

of them did he just Donnie you like that all right tell you think that's all but not stop learning I just realized

what she said about Donnie Donnie did that Donnie like Donnie like Donnie said score

one, like score one for her to walk. It was a dearie. All right. For Ashley and Donnie. Take Dean Cass off of John. I'm family. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye guys. Happy holidays. Be safe.

Happy holidays.