Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - TV Legend Larry Wilmore Shares His Top Five Black Sitcoms

Episode Date: August 24, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay break down Sha’Carri Richardson’s last-place finish at the Prefontaine Classic (6:33), before welcoming a true television legend to the podcast, Larry Wilmore, to discuss his career as a writer, comedian and producer on some of your favorite shows (25:45). Plus, the FDA has approved the Pfizer vaccine and Trump gets booed in Alabama (1:05:02), while Jay-Z and Beyoncé do an ad for Tiffany that has the internet abuzz (1:17:37).  Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel and Lindsay, Van Lathen, Jr. here. I forgot the junior. Sorry, Dad.

What did you do this weekend? I was chilling. Honestly, I didn't do much because I was feeling a little sick again on Friday. I'm really trying to beat this thing. Whatever this is in my system, I'm trying to beat it. So I was chill. Okay, I have a confession to make. Okay.

Let's do it. Because one of the things we did was, you know, we're deep into the Sopranos. Yeah, we're deep in. And I have to apologize. I love it. Of course, of course you do. I love it. You know what?

I have to give shout out to the thought warrior that wrote me this. I can now remember who you were. But she was like, you need to understand that you are living life with these folks. You were traveling through their everyday life as they're living at like regular folks, but then also as like as a family, but then also. also as being part of the mob. So it's like you're waiting for something big to happen, but these people are just living out their lives and you're on the journey.

And when I started looking at it like that, I was like, okay, but it was season four that got me. And I said, okay, I'm in this thing. So we watched a lot of Sopranos, check some things off the list, got some things done, but not a crazy weekend, a catch-up weekend. You know, we just got back from out of town. Got back from out of town.

All right. What you do? I'm happy. I just chilled. Oh. I did nothing. You know, I just chilled. I'm happy that we were able to talk you in to appreciate the greatest television show of all time.

You say that, but then you take that back. Is it the wire? Is it this? The wire is the, how about this? From our artistic standpoint, the wire is the greatest show of all time. From an entertainment standpoint, just entertainment, straight up drama, it's the Sopranos. The wire is just the wire is the best written. Maybe the best performed,

although Sopranos has some fantastic acting in it too, but the wire is just perfect in its storytelling. The Sopranos just gives you higher highs because there's so much drama and stuff going on, you know? I will say, though, I'm in season five right now, and it might be the worst season. Season five is the season with... It's introducing a lot of new characters

because the class of 2004 or 2004 has come back. So all these old heads are coming back in and they're fighting over certain territory. And so like it's a little confusing because I'm trying to figure out who's who and it's a lot of establishing characters. You know, so it's a little dull at times. Well, a lot of people would say that season four

was the weakest season. I just love Edie Falco and she did her thing in season four and I think that's what I fell in love with was her acting. Right. Because season five is, I think, when Tony Blondetto, his cousin comes. Correct.

Right. So, and I love Tony Animal Blondetto. What is it? Is it Buscemi or Buscemi? Steve Buscemi. Shimmy. I just, I, you know, it's Steve Buscemi. And you should know how to say his name.

It's just so interesting that, like, I can be in this situation. Is it Steve Buscemi? It's Steve Buschemy. He's a, he's a well-known Hollywood entity. It's just like, you should know how to say his name. It's very upsetting. It's upsetting. I know who he is.

Don't act like I did not know who he is. I just. That was Siri. That, hold on. That was Siri. You pressed that. No, you did that. I didn't do anything.

It's enough for you to call me out. But for Siri, that's a little too much. Siri called you out. Siri said, I'm not sure I understand. And she's still taping me. Why is Siri taping me? Okay. What the hell's going on?

I don't like what phones with. out like that, like get it under control. Why is Siri taping me, man? Don't act like I don't know who he is. I'm terrible at pronouncing names. I do it all the time on extra. I can tell you how many times I have to retract because I say people's names wrong.

It's just the thing. It's just what I do. Right. What's the hardest name? Who was the finals MVP for the Milwaukee books last year? Don't do that to me. I'm asking you. The Greek freak.

What's his name? Say the Greek freak's name. Yonis. What's his last name? Ante Ticompo. That's actually right. See, look, give yourself credit. You just don't like Steve Buscemi,

which is why you couldn't say his name. Oh, you froze? Is that me or you? Or did I freeze? I never know who froze. That's him. Okay. Is it me or is it her?

It's me because nobody's answering me. Okay, you were frozen. You were frozen. It looked like you were frozen, but I guess it was me that was frozen. Yeah. But asked me when I was on first take. They would come back from commercial all the time.

They'd be like, Rachel, that's not how you pronounce their name. Live TV. Just saying anybody's name wrong. It's a lot of names. A lot of names out there. A lot of names. A little nerd stuff dropped over the weekend. It was a big hubbub and nerd land yesterday.

It's the wrong podcast, man. It's the wrong podcast. Still, I got to say it. Are you excited that the Spider-Man No Way Home trailer leaked yesterday? I thought it didn't leak. I thought Sony was preventing it. I saw it from Lincoln. Okay, so here's my question.

This is why I tell you you're on the wrong podcast talking about this stuff. Right. How many, the last Spider-Man I saw was with Toby McGuire. Right. That's a long time ago. Yes. And it was when he, like, was bitten by the other one and he had the black suit. Spider-Man 3.

So how far are we from that? I mean, we're leaps and bounds. It's very, very, very. I mean, so there have been two guys to play Spider-Suit. Man since then. Andrew Garfield jumped in for a couple of movies. First Andrew Garfield movie was, okay. Okay. Second Andrew Garfield. You know what? Bullshit. I didn't really mind Andrew Garfield, Spider-Man as much. He had two movies. Now, Tom Holland, who you interviewed is Spider-Man. But we didn't talk Spider-Man. And he is, this will be his third movie of

Spider-Man, and he has played Spider-Man in two Avengers movies and a Captain America movie. Who's your favorite Spider-Man? Toby McGuire. Okay. So good. So I quit at the right time. I guess. Whatever. If that's how you want to live your life, that's fine with me. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you?

Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcumab taken by injection is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia.

including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors.

So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. All right, we got to get into it. Rachel, Rachel, Rachel had a take. You guys, Rachel had a take about something, all right? She put it into a group chat this weekend.

We have to talk about it. The Prefontein Classic was this past weekend. Oh, that's not what I thought you were about to talk about. We'll go something else. But okay, okay, the Prefontein classic with this past weekend. And it was, it's a, track race up there in Oregon, and it was very, very, very anticipated because of the fact that this was going to be Shakary Richardson's first time back on the track since not being able to compete in the

2020 Olympics, Olympics that the Jamaican sprinters, notably the Jamaican women completely dominated. They dominated on both sides, but the women really, really did their thing. So Shikari Richardson was going to be running the 100-yard dash, which she did. She ran the 100-yard dash, and I want to say the name of the woman who won the race. Her name is Elaine Thompson, Harrah. She ran a 10-5-4, an amazingly fast time. Now, off the pace of the World Record Time, which is, of course, held by Florence Griffith.

Join her, I think 10-4-something, which is. But what she did is the second fastest time ever. Ever, ever. And people haven't been getting close to Flojo at all. So this is huge. And Flojo ran that back in the 80s. It's a long time ago for people not to be getting faster. But here's a deal.

Even though Elaine won the race, shout out to the women of Jamaica who were able to win. And I think took a clean sweep on the first three places, if I remember, maybe they did, maybe they did. But they dominated. And the Olympics, I did. I don't know if they did in this. Okay. This race was a lot about who came in last. And who came in last year, ninth was Shakari Richardson.

She carry came in ninth This is after she had gone on TikTok I posted a TikTok Where she basically said I'm back bitches This is actually after she had tweeted during the Olympics I bet you guys missed me as these Jamaican ladies Were winning gold medals and silver medals And doing all kinds of things like that

She came up and she basically laid an egg During this particular race You texted into the group chat Is it okay if I say this Oh please go ahead You text it into the group chat that you felt like Shakari quit. Yes.

In this race. And you think she quit? I do. I do. I watched the race like 15 times. I kept rewining it and going back and watching it. I'm no Shakir, but I grew up doing track for years. And as I was, I'm not even close.

Okay. She ran a $1,700. No. One hundred wasn't even my race. No, I'm just saying. I'm more so saying it because, like, I ran track, like, age six all the way. But you know how that sounds. Yes.

No, I know. Just why I'm laughing. I'm laughing as I'm saying it because I'm like, because all I was going to say is I ran track and people are going to be like, okay, you're not sure. I know I'm not her. If this were me and I was like, if I'm talking about Kevin Durant or somebody, I go, I play basketball in high school. Yeah.

Okay. And you do do that. And just to know, you do do that. No, I don't. I don't, not when I compare it to an NBA player. No, I'm not comparing myself. I'm just about to give like, I'm just about talk track, is what I'm saying. You know, like, I know.

I didn't even run in college. I know, I know my limits. But if you watch the race, when she comes out the blocks, right, she had a good start. At first I thought she had a bad start. I rewatched him like, no, she had a good start. You can see the point where she pulls back in the race. She doesn't even get, it might be like 30 meters, and you can see her pull up, and she's just coasting the rest of the race.

What I think she saw was them getting away from her. I think Shakari knew she was not going to win that race. And she pulls up and she coasts the whole way through. When she says, you know what I can do, we know that she's better than the time that she gave us. We know she can do better than that. She saw that she was losing the race. It was better for her to run the race that way

than to go all out and lose to the Jamaicans. That's my take. That's why I say she quit. I'm not saying she quit and she stopped. I'm saying she pulled up and coasted the rest of the race. And if you go back and you watch it,

you can find the exact moment where she does it. Because she was losing. She was losing the race. The moment I saw that you said that she quit, I thought about something. And a lot of people that are not as old as me

are not going to remember this. But back in the 90s, we had an amazing sprinter. His name was Michael Johnson. Do you guys remember Michael Johnson? Of course you remember Michael Johnson. Michael Johnson ran the 200. and the 400 meters.

And he was basically, couldn't be beating either. Now, since then, in the 200, Usain Bolt has beat his time. But Michael was so fast at that point that it made people ask the question. Was he actually the fastest man in the world? Because at this point,

there was a Canadian guy named, I think Donovan Bailey was his name. And he was running 100, and he had one Olympic gold in the 100. But people were saying, hey, Michael Johnson is so fast at the two that Donovan Bailey might not be the fastest man in the world, might actually be Michael Johnson. His top speed is faster than Donovan Bailey's and his splits or whatever.

So they talked so much shit that they ended up having a race. And a race was like a 150 with a little curve in it. And they were going to finally figure out who was the best. They had a race. They had different rules. They had a different track. the whole deal. During his race, they were coming around and turned, and Donovan was in front, and Michael pulled up. He said that he injured his hamstring. Now, the hamstring injury ended up being legit. It ended up being legit. He was out a lot of the next rest of the season. But a lot of people thought in that situation that he quit. And I remember that because he was not going to beat Donovan Bailey, there was like a million dollars on the line and so much bragging rights. Say that an athlete, quit. I remember even then thinking, damn, what if Michael Johnson quit because he was an Olympic

half athlete quit is the biggest accusation that you can level at them. I'm not, here's the thing. So I'm asking you this. So let me ask you a question. So if in fact, and I say that to say that she a hundred percent pulled up in the race. I'm sorry. You can find the exact moment when she did it. I'm not saying that she didn't. What I'm saying is because after that Michael Johnson's thing was never quite the same.

All right. Injuries, whatever, got a little older, whatever. But the time of Michael Johnson being an untouchable goal-plated sprinter or whatever was over. If she did quit, does it change your opinion of Shakari Richardson? Not at all. See, I'm not one of those people who was like, I was more excited to see her on the track. I wasn't like, oh, my gosh, she's going to get first. Or is she, you know, to me with all, we were, I was excited to see her run.

I was mad. We missed her in the Olympics. And I wanted to see her on the field. again. I'm not one of those people either who was like, oh, she talked all that talk and then she didn't even perform. No, forget that. She got back out there because part of this was a mental thing. And we talked about this. She was going through some things. And then she had the whole world and attention on her when she didn't make the Olympics. Everybody's watching her every move, deciphering every single tweet. She's got all this criticism she's got to overcome. She overcomes that and

gets back on the track. I was just happy to see her there. It does not change my opinion of her. I do think that it wasn't as important maybe for her to go out and feel like she needed to win this race. It was more important for her to just be back and get a feel of the track and be back out there and get back in the rhythm of things. I mean, now, like, the season's pretty much over. But no, it doesn't change my opinion of her. I just saw her pull up, you know. I think it would have been, if you tell me she faked an injury or something, that's different.

But like the race was getting ahead of her. As a runner, you can feel the race pulling away from you. And she felt it. And she just coasted her whole way through. That's not like she's faster than that. Okay. A couple of things. Afterwards, she gave a press conference, a couple of them actually.

Defiant. She says she's not going anywhere. You guys have probably seen it by now. She's the sixth fastest woman in the history of this sport, which is an incredible accomplishment. And she will be back. She says she's not done. She says it's not over.

Chicago, she isn't going anywhere. She says all the haters, everybody's going to talk this. She will be back and I hope that she will be back. A couple of things. My take is this. Whether she quit or when she didn't quit, last is not going to get it. What do you mean not going to get it? Like she can't keep getting last, what you're saying?

No, what I'm saying is that there's two things to this. Number one, we put a lot of expectations on Shakari Richardson before she actually got a chance to go out and prove who she was against the world's best best, right? Sure. So a lot of this really isn't even fair to her. But it's not that people don't, people, there's a misnomer here. People think that, oh, we don't like people that are confident. We don't like people that talk shit. We don't like people that, that pound their chest.

No, that's not true. We love people like that, that do it and then back it up. Like there are all types of people from all different types of sports that don't do sports that don't do anything but talk shit and then they can't back it up. Adrian Broner in boxing. is a guy who's one of the best boxers in the game talks a gang of shit is a fun guy to leading up to a fight but ends up in the ring at least recently since the madonna fight not being able to back up the shit that he talks after a while that wears on people now

this is not a this is not an indictment of her over time it's just an indictment of her of the right now look you can't do all of that stuff and not expect a little blowback if you go out there and run last i don't know if she quit i'm having a problem understanding how you could believe she quit gave lessen her best effort on purpose and that in no way says anything about her how does that work what was her because what was her intention to come to come out there right she kept saying i'm back i'm back y'all watch me all watch me watch me was her intention to go out there and just get back on the track or was it to win the entire race i don't know why would she be on the track if if her intention wasn't to win the race

You're right. I'm sure it was to win the race. But I'm telling you, I'm telling you, you're the one saying she quit. Quitting to me would have been stopping mid-race. No, no, no. I'm not saying she quit. You're using the word quit. I said she started coast.

When she saw the race was getting away from her, she just coasted. You used the word quit. You said she quit. Oh, I did say she quit. Oh, yeah. Sorry, I'm forgetting my text. I'm sorry, sorry. I'm forgetting what I text.

I'm just thinking what I'm saying what I'm saying what I meant she quit is that she pulled up. I guess I wasn't saying like she quit, like she just stopped running. she coasted when she saw the race was getting away from her. Like rather than, because my belief is, so look at it how you want. My belief is she would rather coast her way through where it's obvious she wasn't running as hard as she can than to run full out and get fourth or fifth.

Okay. To me, as a pride thing, as a pride thing, I think that looks better because I think anybody can watch and can tell she started coasting midway through that race. Well, actually, I couldn't tell. I'll tell you this, though. She also withdrew from the 200, another way so she ran after that race.

She was supposed to come back and run the 200 and she withdrew from the 200 for whatever reason. I don't know if there was no injury cited. There was no reason given that I saw, but she withdrew from the 200. If anybody knows a reason that she cited for withdrawing from the 200, I'm not sure, but she withdrew from the 200.

Her fastest time is a 10-7. Right. She ran an 11. Like 11-1-4. 11-14. Like you tell me that she's that she's not better than that. I don't know. I'm sure she can go faster.

What I'm saying is this is like it's a weird, it's a weird spot. Nobody wants to be one of the people with their pitch force out for Shakari Richardson. But especially we talk a young black lady. And by the way, everybody that says the hate for Shakari Richon is Richardson is because, you know, certain people hate to see black women get ahead. I understand that sentiment because she's a confident black lady, but remember, there was only black ladies there. Like, black ladies flourish in track. So giving flowers to the ladies that won or talking about someone who has had a different set of fame or a different level of fame because of who they are, it doesn't necessarily make you a hater of black ladies, all right? And I've heard that.

I'm very sensitive to that criticism that's been leveled out there. It hasn't been leveled against me, but it's been leveled against a bunch of people. We're talking about sports now. We're talking about an athlete who went out there. And what I'm having trouble with is the one thing that you ask for anybody in competition, if you're going to appreciate what they do in competition, is that they give it their best. And just being on the track is not sufficient enough. That's not good enough.

So you're right about that. But as a pride thing, right? Would you rather go out there and it looks like you didn't run your fastest time? Like she said, I'm better than this. Y'all know what I can do. And she's right. Like you've run a whole 0.4 seconds better, which is extremely significant in track, especially the 100 meters or in a sprint.

Would you rather that you didn't go full out? Or would you rather that, is it better for your pride to say, I ran my fastest and I got fifth? To me, for me personally, and anybody will tell you this, for me personally, it's better to do the absolute best job you can. To me, to me, it's better to be like, yo, I left every single thing that I could leave on that court, that field of that track. And it wasn't good enough. So now I know what it is that I need to do. I get that.

I'm actually shocked. Nobody asked her if she pulled up. Yeah, because nobody can be. Because a lot of people I feel like asking her that question, they would think that that was disrespectful to her, to be honest with you, because as an Olympian, what she had to sacrifice to get, I guess, an Olympian. I mean, I wouldn't. To get all the way to that point, people are going to expect that she gave,

she gave and she gives the best every time she's running. Well, I wouldn't ask the question like that, but it would more so if I was a reporter, I would have asked her, I'd be like, you know, in watching the race to carry, it looked like around 30, 40 meters. You pulled up a little bit. seem to be coasting. We've seen you run a whole four point seconds better. Can you talk a little bit about what happened to you during that race?

That's exactly what I would have asked her because I would have been curious as to what she would have said, oh, I got a bad start. Oh, you know, I did. I'm a little rusty. I took a month off. I would be curious as to what her reasoning was. Yeah. Look, I'll say this.

There's a space here to criticize Shakari Richardson. There is. And we're talking about sports now. So for those who are fans. of her like I am hoping she gets back to the top hoping she gets back to performing the way that she knows that she can perform it she never goes faster than 10-7 and 10-7 means that she's third or fourth at every single race that's fine I mean I'm not saying she has to go out there and run a personal best every time but hoping that she gets through whatever she's going through so she'd

go back there but I can tell you one thing this you can't pay too much attention to the cheers and you can't pay too much attention to the booze that's very true and if you're her go out there and do what you've been doing because it was running that put you where you are right now not TikTok not not adulation from social media not even the hair or the nails which I love the fact that she expresses herself I love the fact that she expresses herself that way but the reality is it's the track that got her here and it's the track that's going to push her forward and can I just say in piggybacking on that when it comes to criticism there's a difference between criticizing her performance on the field versus her.

And I think that people were combining that criticism and that's where things were too much and went a little too far. You can criticize for what she did on the track, but don't criticize her as a person. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I do and I disagree because because. Oh, we don't have to talk about that. You can criticize her race, but you can't, but criticizing like her speech after like the way she was in it or like that's like.

Wait, that's like saying you can criticize. LeBron, but you can't criticize the decision when he made a whole infomercial about him going to Miami. It was too much. Like, we do this all the time. You can criticize an athlete's play on the floor, but you can't criticize what they say in a press conference.

You can't criticize what, you can't criticize an athlete for, like, a basketball player for Sandman? But see, it's not just what she said in the press conference is that it's the way people were coming at her on Twitter. And to me, it seemed a little bit more personal than it did with her performance on the track and field. I guess that's what I'm saying.

I get it. everybody gets this man listen like when I say everybody gets this I like I don't I understand it and I get it but there's a point to where we're coddling right I'm not saying that this is that anybody should be mean mean on purpose but I remember I told you about the Kevin Durant pie thing right I put a post up like my top five favorite pies right oh yeah yeah and then Kevin Durant says I like apple pie and niggas was like fuck you you should have stayed in Golden State I'm like god damn you to me so what i'm saying is part of this the criticism surrounding her that's what comes with greatness and if she's going to overcome that i i want everyone to be nice to everybody but you can't make

the ticot video i'm back bitches and they go out there and run ninth and expect people are not going to have nothing then criticize her performance that's what i'm saying that like you said that wasn't going to cut it you're going to have to do better than that that's talking about her performance that's fine. That's criticism about it. I'm talking about her when it's personal. Okay. On the other side of this break, we have just one of the busiest, most talented brothers in Hollywood,

one of the creators, so many shows that you guys like, when I say one of the creators, I'm talking about blackish, I'm talking about insecure, I'm talking about, he wrote on a living color, he wrote on Fresh Prince, he wrote on everything. He might have just wrote on the Bible. His name is Larry Wilmore.

He hosts a podcast here on the ringer called Black on the Year, and we're going to have them next on higher learning. On the other side is break. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away.

Trimfaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoracomaphobias. arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Nas Energy. Every ounce of

sweat and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard fought place. They're all jammed inside every can of Nass energy, high performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage and pedal to the metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of Nass energy and get after it. So, you know, you know what I'm going to do for the next person, for the next man, the next black man joining us on higher learning. I'm just going to run down some stuff for you real quick.

guys because you guys don't know because we never we never really talk about giving people flowers okay so he was recurring on the flat facts of life so staff writer on in living color that show uh always get you right there writer producer on the fresh pince of belair and the jamie fox show so he got all y'all reruns locked up co-creator of the pjs with annie murphy that was fantastic animation madness uh created and produced the bernie max show rest and peace you guys all love that show created and produce whoopi with whoopi goldburn okay white people you thought you were getting left out you are not because he was a consulting producer on the office okay and he he was on my favorite episode of the office which was the diversity day episode uh right there he was the senior black

correspondent on the daily show hell of a title right there holds at the where larry wilmore show if you thought he was done no executive producer on blackish grownish co-creator writer and executive producer on Insecure. And he hosted a late night show called Wilmore, 11 episodes on Peacock. And he has his very own podcast right here on the ringer network. It's the only thing we care about is the podcast. A block on the air. We are joined today by Larry Wilmore.

Larry, how are you doing, my brother? Good. That's such a nice intro. Thank you so much. It's ridiculous. Like when I like, you know, I never ask you for money. We're friendly. We text, but I never hit you up.

I would have given you money. Give me $20,000. I never, but look. Wow. Did you hear all this? You had close mouths. Don't get fed. Shoot your shot.

Go ahead. Larry, when you hear... Jeff Bezos sat people in a room and said, I need all of you motherfuckers to give me $50,000 and you will not regret it. And like 30 out of 100 said, yes, I wish I had been in that room. I would say, yeah, take it. Yeah, get it. Get it.

When you hear all of that run down, do you ever think, Jesus Christ, I'm the fucking man? Do you ever feel that one? No, not at all. Not at all. I just, I try to focus on gratitude. I'm just so, you know, fortunate to be able, you know, to have such a long career. You know, it's something that I've always wanted to do. Many times people say, Larry, how did you get into comedy?

And I say, you know what? Actually, I'm in showbus so I could get comedy out of me. It was already there. If I worked in a bank, I'd be telling jokes, but I'd probably get fired all the time. So I needed a place to get that out. But I had always been interested in different things, even from the beginning. Like in my career, when I started out, I was a theater major. Like my first card was an equity card.

So Actors Equity was the first union I was in. I did this thing at the Mark Tapeer Forum called the Improvisational Theater Project. Forrest Whitaker was a buddy of mine way back in the day. We kind of started out together. he had been in that. And then at the same time, I was doing stand-up comedy, which is a little more entrepreneurial, you know, you're doing your own business type of thing. So I had two things going, you know, trying to be an actor and, you know, and trying to do this other thing. And the reason I became a writer was because of Hollywood, where Hollywood was like, um, we only feeling a couple

of kind of niggas, sorry. You know, like, you're not feeling all over during that time. So I was really inspired by Robert Townsend, Keenan, Spike, you know, all those guys who are kind of contemporaries and said, I just got to do them. I got to make my own path, which is why I started writing and producing, really. With all the things that you've done and you continue to do, what's your favorite hat to wear? You know, it's a great question. It probably is producer because maybe I learned that I have control issues after all these years. But I like to see the whole picture come to fruition, you know, and see it done, you know, and I don't mind answering questions. Like some people have a really tough time giving answers, you know, what do you think we should do?

I don't know. What do you want to do? It's like, no, no, no, just say yes or no or this or that. Right. You know, like I don't have a problem making decisions. And I've noticed that many people have problems with that. And I like collaborations. You know, it's something that I really enjoy. I love collaborating, especially with smart artistic people, something that I've always. always enjoyed. So liking those two things. You don't have to do it all when you produce. I think you have to collaborate intelligently if you want to be a good producer. So Larry and I talk, we've had talks. And sometimes, yeah, yeah, yeah, me is this Larry. No, sometimes. Every show. No, sometimes. I'm a fan of yours too, by the way. I love,

I love the fact of how you've come up and everything. It's just so great, you know. Yeah. Thank you, Larry. And by the way, Larry, Here's the thing. On the last show, Rachel says in the last show, we had Dominique Dawes on. I didn't even tell guys. I didn't even tell Dominique.

I heard a clip from that, yeah. I even tell her how much I was in love with her in the 90s. And Dominique couldn't care less than I was here. She came on here and she went, I love you, Rachel. I love you, Rachel. And they growled it up and I was like, okay, I guess we'll start the fucking questions now.

Well, I heard that Kobe story. I mean, this is somebody who hung with, you know, she spent some time with Kobe. You're right, right? Yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? So forget you, man. Yeah, fuck that.

Larry, so when we talk, it's a lot of times it, like we spar a little bit. We tend to spar. Yeah, which is good. Which is good. It's good.

Yeah, we both enjoy that. We don't feel threatening by disagreeing. No, not at all. Right. I do have a question for you, though. There's not that much space between us age-wise, but there's a little bit. So my question would be,

older black guy, OG, in the culture. What's one thing that you wish, younger black people knew? That's an interesting question that I wish that they knew? That they wish like one thing because as I get older there start to be things. I wish I could

make these kids see that. I wish I could make these kids understand that. And you just you can't because you don't want to come off as a guy that's getting off my lawn all the time. Yeah, I'm not really that guy. Right. I'm not me. You know, that's not my thing. But is there anything that you feel like in all social commentary that you've done through your art that the younger generation is missing. Well, I don't know if they're missing, but I would say this. I would say

that every generation has had it as hard as you think you have it uniquely right now. You know, so when I hear things, you know, well, you know, when I was coming up, we had 9-11 and then we were in a war, you know, and then we had the financial crisis. I go, yeah, when I was two, the President of the United States was assassinated. He was shot in the head. Right. I was two. Right.

You know, and then I was, I was six. Martin Luther King was shot in the head, you know. Bobby. Yeah. Exactly. You know, I saw all these leaders assassinated, you know, that, you know, there was a lot of things that happened. But every generation can point to touchstones that feel like they're almost impossible

to get through or hurdle. But, you know, I just see them as challenges, you know, that everybody has. Is that what? It's okay. So I wanted to be, it's okay, don't worry. Every generation has it tough. But you'll get through it and you'll be telling the younger generation,

you have no idea what I had to go through when we were coming up. Yeah, but see, I'm going to be honest with you, Larry. Sometimes I think you're right. And sometimes I think you're wrong. Sometimes I think that it's, we'll be telling the younger generation how tough it was while we're enslaved by AI robots. Oh, no. You know what I mean?

We'll be, we'll be telling them, don't worry. Hey, we had it tough. You know what I mean? It's weird. It's weird. But I understand what you. Or to be the robot saying it, you have no idea of how black people were free in those days. To piggyback off of what Van was saying, though, about what you, maybe what you could tell the younger generation, black younger generation.

Is that why it was so important? for you to be a part of the amend series that was on Netflix discussing the 14th Amendment because I feel like a lot of time everyone's like, oh, that's my First Amendment right, people know Second Amendment, even Fifth, right? You know, self-incrimination. But the 14th, people don't understand the rights

that they have underneath it and how they can apply them. Absolutely right. Yeah. Absolutely right. It was an education for all of us. I was lucky enough to be the documentary jury at Sundance a few years ago. And I've always loved documentaries, but I've never been that up close to them. And I was like, oh, man, I got to make a documentary.

You know, I love this art form, you know. And I was actually called by Will, Will Smith, to do a man. They had had a team together to do a straightforward documentary, but he wanted to do a more creative one that pulled on a lot of different levers, you know, where there was entertainment in it. It was accessible. It wasn't, it tried not to take sides. It was, you know, just telling the truth.

But as you say, there were so many applications that were kind of hiding in plain sight that a lot of people didn't even know about. And the chance to get to do that, oh, man, it was huge. I had so much, it was such an education and being able to put, you know, all the things that I felt that I had learned from my experience kind of in that in terms of point of view and that kind of stuff, which a lot of people didn't know. Like a lot of people don't realize how ordinary racism was. You know, people think it's this thing where people hate you and everything. Some of the nicest people were some of your best races. Right. Yeah.

You know, I mean, and what are the examples of it? What was that movie where, oh, in the, I can't remember the name of it, but it was Jim Brown, Maham and Ali, Malcolm X, what was the name of the movie? Just came out. One Night Miami. Yeah. One Night Miami. At that brilliant scene with Jim Brown in the beginning where he's, where he's talked to

the guy. I knew it was going to go bad. Like it didn't go bad. It went normal. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, you're right. That's the thing that it went normal. It didn't go abnormal.

That shit went normal. Right. So there was one of my friends, his dad was telling me a story. When I tell you, these are the nicest white people I've ever known. I tell you, so this was, so I'm not going to say this person's name because this is one of my best friends. I used to come over to their house and their mom would try to feed me, you know, gumbo. She'd be like, Van, I cooked. You want some gumbo?

And I look at the gumbo, I'd be like, I'm not hungry. I don't want any because I'm not about to eat gumbo when you put, you didn't put franks in it. And so I'm not eating that. You know what I mean? But his dad was telling me a story one time. And his father's a great guy about his father. And he was like, there was this guy that used to come over to our house and mow our lawn. And he was a black guy.

And my parents treated him just fine. And they would bring him out, um, uh, lemonade to drink. Right. And stuff like that. And the lemonade they would bring him out to drink was in mason jars. And he was,

and it was like, it took me a while to learn that we never drank out of mason jars. Mm-hmm. That the lemonade that we were drinking, that they had a different set of dishes for the niggas. That might come around. And they would not drink behind. him even after they had washing.

And he was like, he was telling me this. He was like, because I never looked at my father as that way till I was an older guy. And he became a hippie and stuff. And that's how deeply ingrained it was. It's like looking at their relationship. They talk. They do whatever. But he would not drink out of the same glass.

Right. This man had drank out of. And people don't think that it's that ingrained that it's to that degree. Man, so ingrained that you had to have different cemeteries. Yeah. Even in that you're a nigga. Yeah. Right.

No. You have you gone. There's nothing left. It looks like some ashes from a nigga. Second problem. You're ashes. No, no. There's a nigga ashes right there.

Um, I want to ask you about somebody. I don't know how if we can talk like this on your podcast, but we can. We definitely can. We definitely. We definitely can. That was funny. I want to ask you about somebody. Speaking of this, one of your friends right now,

a lot of black Americans don't know what to make of them. The guy Bill Maher. You and Bill Maher, you and Bill Maher are our pals. And I've actually even hit you before. Like, you know, what's going on? It seems like Bill Maher is going over the edge. It's the same thing that kind of happened to Christopher Hitchens in the end, where Christopher Hitchens was for a lot.

long time looking at the world one way and then all of a sudden he turned on a dime post 9-11 really and Christopher's popping up on Fox News it seems like a lot of people feel like Bill Maher has become over on the last couple of weeks sort of the enemy of progress and a spokesperson for a white privilege do you think that that's a fair assessment of what's going on on real time no absolutely that. And I mean, in Christopher Hitchard's defense, he was a raging alcoholic. He was. And by the way, I've read a lot of Hitchens. I've read a lot of Hitchens. I loved Hitchens, but it got weird towards the end. He was brilliant. Yeah, he's absolutely brilliant. Even when I, the thing with me is, even when I disagree with Hitchens, and I have Hitchens book, which is

real fat, which has some amazing stuff in it. But even if you can disagree with them and still say, that shit was pretty good, but I don't, I don't agree with it, you know, which is, as you know, pretty much a position that I come from. I believe that Bill Maher has always been contrary, always. Remember, his show in the 90s was politically incorrect. And even back then, he had people like Ann Coulter in a show, you know, and he was, he always kind of had that libertarian line of where he feels freedom should exist. And a lot of where he feels freedom should exist is in speech. And that's been a position he's held for a long time. So a lot of his arguments really are around speech and expression and where he feels, not that I'm standing up for Bill.

Sure, sure. I'm just asking, yeah, yeah. But I don't think he's changed so much, so much as the issues that people care about kind of ride around some of those issues. And if it feels like he's on the other side of that, then it's like, you, Bill, what are you talking about? What do you mean about it? It's like when the ACLU defended the Ku Klux Klan for their right to March.

It's like, what do you do in ACLU? It's like, sorry, we got to defend it for everybody. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I get it. It seems as if, though, and this is, it seems as if speech is his biggest issue is, is another way to say it, you know, and he doesn't care. He doesn't care which side that falls on. It's going to be his issue.

So if he's going to be on the right side of the equation of him, he's like, I don't care. Okay, fair enough. Rachel. I'm going to go back to TV because I have a couple of questions about TV shows. Two of the shows that you're affiliated with are, or that you work on, I should say. are in their last seasons, blackish and insecure. And I helped launch those shows. With Blackish, I helped Kenya do the pilot in the first season

because I was going off to do my show. But Insecure, I co-wrote it with Issa. We co-wrote the pilot. And then I kind of gave notes for only the first season. And then I didn't work with it after that. But, you know, Ysena and I, you know, we're all, everybody's still friends and everything. But technically, I haven't worked in those shows in a long time.

But I am sad to see them go. Yeah, because I was going to ask, like, what's next for the shows? I didn't realize you still weren't with them. But also, like, they're just such great black TV shows that we're losing. So I'm like, well, what's you got next for us? Because, you know, you're always on the cusp of what's happening. Well, one thing that I like to do, like when you ask me about looking back, I'm always looking forward.

So I'm always trying to create the next thing. So even as we're talking, you know, and all that stuff is going on, you know, I'm trying to get that next thing on the air, whatever it is. And Rachel, one of the things. that I'm always motivated, but I try to put something on television that I feel is not on right now. I'm working on a project with Kerry Washington right now that hopefully we'll get on soon. And it's based on Sean Hawley, the black lawyer who she just, yeah, she was down with Johnny Cochran and now. And with Trevor Bauer. She just handled that case. Yeah.

I worked at TMZ. I know Sean well. You know Sean. John is a ridiculous superstar. She's one of those superstars. She is the best, and no one gives the props. She is right there, yeah. So this is a show. We're giving her all of her flowers of this show.

It's kind of based on her, you know, and we just found our leave for it. And it's very exciting. So I've been, you know, I've been working on stuff like that. I've got a show that I'm writing right now that I love doing shows like this, because I get to procrastinate from writing the stuff that I'm supposed to be right.

I've got about five other shows that are in development right now, you know, everything from hour long to a half hour and that type of thing. I'm doing a show with the Native American writer right now, trying to get that on the air. I love different types of stories, not just culturally, but also point of view and that kind of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Would you ever, would you ever consider writing something? Okay. So is there a world where you whites, right, where you write something.

I can always tell the, there's going to be a trap in here somewhere. It's not a trap. Because you're already tripping over the language. Could you see yourself writing all white characters in a show? Could I see myself? Yeah. I've written shows that weren't black lead shows.

If that's what you mean. I created a show called a Beverly Hills SUV sport utility vehicle. It was a pilot that I did a lot. Oh, it was really funny. It was a half-hour show that took place in a car dealership, and the cast was a mixed cast. Henry Winkler was in it, actually, and he was hilarious. But it wasn't like a black point-of-view show, you know.

It was more about, you know, all these people are stuck together, and they're all sewing cars, that type of thing. So I get tons of different ideas from all different directions. And sometimes, you know, it's a lot of. a matter of what actually makes it through that people get to see, but I may have pitched five or six things that are all completely different things that didn't make it through, you know, on the sign of that. And I ask that question because it seems as if now we have so many different black creators from all different spectrums of life that the idea of what is black is

changing very rapidly, right? Right. And that's a great thing. That's like a good thing. I love that. I love that as well. And a lot of people are saying that, you know, we got to get away from stories about drug dealers. We got to get away from stories about slavery. We got to get away from stories that deal in misogyny, that deal in the past, the deal in, you know, triumph, travails and, you know, all of that stuff. Is there one black story that you're tired of seeing? No, I'm not tired of seeing things.

Plus, we don't have it as bad. as some other groups. I mean, if you're Asian, man, for years, all you heard with, d'i-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-me-me-me, like you're coming through a room. You know, the types of stuff. We're just now seeing Asian male leads,

Asian male leads. You know, it's huge, you know. The fact that it's taking Latinos so long to have certain types of shows and get out of certain boxes. If you're Italian, you're still in the mob. It's true. We were just, Rachel, Rachel just started the sopranos.

Yeah. You're still in the mob. mom. Like, good luck getting out of that because I'm sorry. Sorry, Italians, it just works. Right, right. But so for us, because we have a lot of different stories now, I'm not mad at anybody's particular area. If that's all we had, then I'm saying, come on, you know, we can do better than that. But there's, we have so much now that, because here's the thing, you have to understand. This, to me, I put my emphasis on the storyteller and the storytelling more than that story, you know, that area, that premise.

Like I have Barry Jenkins on my show, talked about underground Roman, been a fan of Barry's for a long time. Met him a few years ago, brilliant. But I love what he did with Colson Whitehead's book, you know, and he was faithful to it, but he had his own vision. And to me, it was like,

it really was like an art gallery, just how he was painting pictures with some of the worst images to paint, though. Right. These are some of the most horrific images you could paint, but they were beautiful. So it's this beautiful tragedy thing that's going on, you know.

And to me, it's art. So I would not want to tell him, you know, who might have told somebody not to do that, you know? Not real. That's real. I read that you wrote like when you need inspiration, when you're trying to figure, like, maybe new material or just different ideas, the best way for you to get that is through watching people, through human nature. But in a pandemic, and when we were quarantining, you didn't really have any of that. So I'm curious because you never stopped working. You've got all these ideas coming up.

Where did you get that inspiration from? Like, what inspired you? Well, some of the watching people that you're talking about is being around people watching people, like in a coffee shop or, you know, when I was coming up, you know, riding the bus everywhere, you know, just observing people, just situations you could be a fly on the wall. But you can still see human nature in different situations. last summer when we had all that stuff going on, you know, the way people acted at Trump rallies, the way people, you know, talk about the pandemic, you know, anti-bactors, all this kind of behavior

that's going on to me is still fodder for writing and inspiration and all that kind of stuff. Plus the interactions that you have just with your family, you know, just talking to my parents for any amount of time is going to give me at least three, four good story ideas. Two guaranteed solid. Three or four, which are pretty good. Right, right, right, right. One conversation. Okay. Last question from me.

You've worked with a lot of funny people. Recently, Damon Wayans called out Dave Chappelle to do a versus, a comedy versus. Did you see this? I saw something like that on Twitter. Okay. In a comedy versus between Damon Wands,

Damon Wands and Dave Chappelle, We're just going joke for joke. Who do you think would win? And secondly, who to you, of all the people that you've worked with, is the absolute, I'm talking about, we're talking about the Wandses here. We're talking about Eddie Murphy here. We're talking about Jamie Fox here. We're talking about Whoopi Goldberg, Steve, Steve Carell, all of these guys. Who is the funniest person you've ever worked with?

first of all, who's going to win that versus, and then who's the funniest person you've ever worked with? I would never bet against Damon Wayans because I think he's got sneaky jokes that you maybe didn't hear in some of those specials and things like that. And I like his ability, I like his competitiveness.

A lot of Chappelle's jokes take some time to set up and tell, you know? He'll go the long route and then come back and go, oh, man. He came around. You know, so I, like a mono to mono, I would not bet against Damon Wayne's. People forget how funny Damon Wayne did.

He's fucking hysterical. One of the funniest moments that I experienced in my life when I worked on living color and they would do the men on film. Yeah. That's what they had to do. They had to have a black scrim while they were setting that up because the audience was going crazy. And the audience could sense that they were coming and you'd hear feet going and

and people would be, oh, they raised the thing. and they go, ah, they start screaming. I'm like, well, what is going on here? It's what it must have been like when you're in the audience watching the Beatles back in the day. I mean, really, or Michael Jackson, you know, at those things. That was, I'd never seen that. I had only seen it on the living color with those guys. And most of that, I mean, David Allen Greer, funny in that, but Damon Wains,

let's be clear how funny he was his homie the clown and in those sketches. Right. You know, people don't sleep on Damon is what I would say. No disrespect to Shepel. But I would have Stephen Damon. The funniest person that I ever worked with, I feel it's not even close. Who would you guess I'm going to say?

Oh, man. And by the way, don't forget I working for any Mac. Right. So it's burning. I would say, I think you're going to say Eddie Murphy. I would go Eddie to, although something's holding me back from saying Eddie, because Eddie doesn't get his comedy shit off as much anymore.

He's a little bit more subdued now. So is this person black or white? No, because if it's white, he's going to get away. Right. No, he's a lot of white. So if the person is black, then... This person is black. And then I will say, Jim Carrey is a real close second.

Right, right. Is it Jamie Fox? No, Jamie Fox is very talented, though. Jamie Fox is one of the few people. He can make his... face look like the person when he's doing an impression. Right. You know, it's crazy how he could do that.

Like he did a band to Holyfield once and, you know, he would just do his face. And I'm like, Jane, you just win. You won. Right, right. You don't even have to do the voice. You run on it. But, um, uh, Lindsay, you're absolutely right. Eddie Murphy.

Hands down to funny. You spend any time with Eddie, you go, fuck, Eddie Murphy is hilarious. Right. And once again, we sleep on Eddie because. you know, people forget, you look back at the 80s and when he was at his funniest. And I got to work with him in the 90s when people weren't watching him as funny. Although I would argue that Nuddy Professor is as funny as those other things that he did. He was really funny in that stuff.

But when he did our table read, oh, man. And I'll tell you this story. I don't know if I should tell him. Yes, that means you should. But it doesn't make any look at a bad thing. But so it's a table read for for the PJs, right? This first show that I've created, co-created my friends, Steve Townland, I'm very excited about working with Ron Howard, Brian Graves,

of Imagine, doesn't get bigger than that, right? Eddie Murphy, Dick and Eddie's the star of my show on television. That's amazing, yeah. Right, exactly. And I'm coming out of the box with this. Right. I'm like, this is crazy, right? So it's very surreal.

And it's stop motion animation. We know, once again, this is my thing, put something on TV that isn't there. So I'm coming out of the box like this, right? I'm very excited about it. All my dreams, all that stuff. So we're at the table. We're at everybody's there. And Eddie's not there. You know, we thought he was there, but he wasn't. Apparently, he went into the bathroom or something, and he wasn't coming out. And I'm like, what the fuck's going on? You know? And I dawned to me for, I don't know if this is true, but I was thinking, you know what? Eddie hasn't done television since Saturday Night Live. You know, at that point,

it was like 18 years or something. It was a long time. Like he hadn't performed in front of people. He hadn't done stand up in about 10 or 12 years. You know, this is a table read. You know, there's an audience that when you're doing movies, you're just making the crew laugh. They're going to laugh at everything, right?

Once again, nothing is. And I thought, I wonder if he has jitters or something, you know? And I think, and it was like a real uncomfortable long time. It was one of those things where I thought, you know, all this, it's just going to go away. you know, and I was ready to do it at the table, but, you know, I would be doing an impression of it. It's not the same thing.

And I can do, like, I did impressions. I could do all the voices in the cast and all that. And I would do that at table reads and that kind of stuff, you know. So it was all said to do it if he wasn't going to make it because we weren't sure he was going to make it anyway. So we were so happy they made it. And I'm like, I don't want to do this. You know, it's not going to be the same.

And then at the last minute, at the last minute it comes out. It's real quiet. I'm not saying anyway. I'm just kind of like this. And I'm like, is he going to, like, give any energy to this? Is he going to be quiet? Is he, I mean, because you don't know. You know, he might just be reading like this.

And I've seen this before. We're, but da-da-da-da-da-da. And then this person, yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Right. Right. Right. And destroying all of your shit. Right. All your shit just goes down. Right. And they're like, I think we need to rewrite that.

No, that motherfucker needs to say it. Right. But it was the opposite. First line, bam. It was the Eddie that you remember. He just came out of the blacks. I don't know why he stayed in that long. I was with the ass.

Why was in the bathroom so long? I don't know. Like I said, I made up my own reasons. Maybe he was nervous something. I never found out. I didn't want to ask. He came out. He was so funny.

This is why I say Eddie is the funniest. I was never more impressed. Because I've been with all these people, we've named, I've been with them at table reads, you know, performances, run throughs. I was there when we, I was there when we, uh, found Jamie Fox in the comedy club. I was in the audience that night when we hired them to be in a living color before anybody knew who Jamie was. And he did Wanda on stage back then and all that stuff.

So I've seen these people in every situation. Steve Carell, by the way, is up there too. It's just really funny. I think he's hysterical. Yeah. Steve Carell, oh my God, is so funny. And you would never know it. He'd be sitting right next to you then.

You wouldn't even know he's in showbiz. And then he'd get up and you could not stop, could not stop laughing is the kind of funny Steve Corrello's. But Eddie, when he started and he's doing that voice and it's the voice you know and all that stuff and it's all and his energy is so good. And he's a great actor too. It was just brilliant. Let me let me. You want to follow up? No, no, no.

No, no. No follow up. Yeah. I want to do, we like to do top fives and I want to do a top five because you have been a part of the shows that we grew up on. we watched. I want to know for you. Not the top five shows you've worked on, just period.

Top five black sitcoms ever. Ooh, black sitcoms. Got me black. You know what number one is. You just can't say it. No, yes, he can. Yes, you can't because we talked about this before. You wouldn't put that number one?

Oh, see, this is why we got to hear his list. This is why we got to hear it. Is it top five? Is it at least top five? It's got to be. You would put that number one. You start with number five. Let's see.

Let's start with number one. Or should I start with number one? Well, I have to have shows that have to be in there first, right? Yeah. Shows that have to be in there. As controversial as it is, good times has to be in the top five. Yeah. Yeah.

Good time on TV when nothing else was like it. Oh, honorable mention that is not in the top five, but honorable mention, Amos and Andy. Interesting. Okay. Amos and Andy in the 50s had all black people you can imagine. There were professional black people. They were blue collar, white color, all this stuff.

It got pulled off the air because the leads were kind of doing that portrayal that people weren't comfortable with. But Amos and Andy, hands down, was a groundbreaking show. All right. So good times, definitely in there. I'll go old school first. And the Jeffersons. Those are the two that have to be in there.

Right. Because there's very few TV people funnier than Sherman. Hemsley. Right. Now gets tough. All right. I'll just say the Cosby Show. Got to. Show in there. I put the Cosby Show in there. It has to be in there.

That's three, right? I'm going to put, okay. Hmm. Hmm. It's hard. A little love for, a little love for the fresh prince of Bel Air, maybe. Are we talking the best or the most loved?

The best. Best. Best. in your opinion. Yeah, I'll put fresh prints up there. Okay. Fresh prints did a lot and it's so, it's so remembered well too. And I think that means a lot for people,

how it's remembered and everything. Those are four, right? There's one more. Yeah. See, it's, I think many people now might pick blackish because, you know, contemporary, you know, it's a contemporary show, but I don't know, there may be some,

I want to make sure I'm not sleeping in something. So I'm thinking obviously a different world is great, but it's not going to be up there. My wife and kids is great. It's not going to be up there. I was actually thinking Flip Wilson, but I don't think that's considered a sitcom. Yeah, it's a variety show. It's a variety show. Yeah.

Is there anything else from the 70s that were, I mean, you're not going to put what's happening in there. You're not going to put what's happening, but really funny. Julia was groundbreaking, but you wouldn't. Julia wouldn't put like give me a break in there. No. No. I love give me a break.

We're not talking about love. Family Matters was really funny. Family Matters was really funny. Break up character. Loved. Not the best. Family Matters was really funny, but I would put family matters. I put it under the Freshments of Bel Air if we were doing these.

My own show, the Bernie Mac show. Bernie Mac shows are pretty pretty good, too. So what are the five? Then the five were the Jeffersons? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, we miss one. We missed one. We miss Sanford and son. Oh, Samfranso.

Oh, yeah. Alarious. Unfortunately, Sanford and Son, people don't remember it as much. You know, like good times has to be above Sanford and Son. But for me, Sanford and Son, if you're saying which are the funniest, Sanfrenson's in top three. Right. In terms of labs. I don't know if it's top, I don't know if Sanford's Son's top five in terms of classic shows.

Really? You, would you take. I wouldn't put in top five. Would you take Sanferson over the freshmen of Bel Air? No. No. So, okay. So we're, we're,

I wouldn't take it over blackish. I wouldn't take it over good times. Wouldn't take it over Jefferson's. Wouldn't take it over Cosby. So then so Sanferson is out. So then the top five is good times, the Jefferson's, Blackish, Fresh Prince of Belair, and the Cosby Show. Now I need the one through five.

Now I have to put them in order? Yeah. I would say good times, Cosby show, Fresh Prince, Blackish, Jeffersons. I'm with that. Can't be mad at that. Can't be, can't be, can't not be mad at that. And who's who better to make the list?

Good times kept it a hundred guys when no, that was not on television. I give good times a lot of credit. It got criticized for things, but I'm like, people, I mean, this is the life. You know, it's the 70s. Yeah. Like, what do you want? Seriously, you know? Yeah.

And remember, it started off with an intact family in good times. You know, they lost John Amos in it. But that was an intact. working class family when that show started out. You know, Roseanne did it a decade later, but good times did it at first. Yeah, it's true. Larry, just a wealth of knowledge. You can catch Larry on his Ringer podcast, Black on the Air.

And really, looking at all of this shit, you can catch Larry wherever. If you watch it, if you watch it. He's got a movies working on. I actually just did a movie. Okay. Yeah. Because sometimes I get out and act. I was in a movie called The Laundromat that Steve Sober.

directed. I just, I'm filming something right now with Brian Cranston and Ned Benning. Oh, wow. Lead in it. Oh, okay. I get to sneak out, you know, do things and stuff like that. So it's, it's fun having a career where I can pull different levers, you know. That, and by the way, in terms of advice for younger people, and then I may have talked to you about this, uh, is it's okay to do different things. You don't have to do one thing. It's okay to have different lanes. Like a lot of times when younger people discourage you from that. I encourage you to have different lanes, you know. I like that. Van asked you for 20,000. I would just ask you for a job. That's what I would ask you for. Are you, Rachel, anytime. We'll do a show together.

You heard it here. He heard it here first. I had never seen, this is horrible. I had never seen the bachelor, bachelor, bachelor, or anything. I started watching during your season. I'm like, oh my God. This thing is, this thing is so addicted. I never watched it before I went on it either, Larry. But also, but, and I haven't watched this sense. Thank you. I saw three episodes when that brother was on. Oh, when I got cursed out.

The one that I cursed out. Last year. No, she's talking about Matt. Oh, Matt James. Oh, the winning is Rosen again. Yes. And I was doing this. I was doing this.

Nah, right? Yeah. Yeah. Larry, you know they won't let us have him on the show? Why? Yeah, he's been banned from coming on the show. It's because ever since I said I wouldn't doing anything with the show. It's like, oh, no, you can't have, you can't have him on there now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. I love what you guys do. Thanks for having me. Rachel, you have to come on my pod sometime. I'm there. I'm there. And talk about whatever you guys want to talk about.

Keep up the good week. All right. Larry Wilmore, thanks for joining us today on High Learning, bro. Always a pleasure. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys. I really appreciate it. So good.

Bye. This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Colehouser returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait

as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dunton Ranch starring Colhouser, Kelly Riley. Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. Want your kids to learn and play every Sunday for free?

Clinic Kids is using sports and evidence-based wellness coaching to help kids build confidence, resilience, and the tools they need for life's challenges and opportunities. Every Sunday from April 12th to May 10th, we're running free sessions at the Boys and Girls Club, New Rochelle, for all children. Tap the banner or visit clinickids.com to learn more. That's Clinic with a K. Plinic Kids is a registered 501C3 nonprofit. Okay, the FDA has granted full approval to Pfizer Biotech COVID-19 vaccine.

Open in the door for more vaccine mandates because now that it's FDA approved, they can do a little bit more with the mandatey, dady. And the consequences of not being vaccinated are still hitting people all over the place. A conservative radio host, vaccine skeptic, who said he, wouldn't get vaccinated because he had a low risk of getting COVID-19 and dying from it, he passed away. He died of the virus. His employer said his name was Phil Valentine. He died at age 61.

He was the disc jockey on a radio station in Nashville called Super Talk 99.7 WTN. He was first hospitalized in late July with the virus. A statement from his family said that at the time of his hospitalization, his illness led him to have his second thoughts and regrets about the vaccine. Vaccine significance and encouraged people to go get vaccinated. He had made a song where he parodied the Beatles taxman and was calling it Vaxman. It was a parody song about not getting vaccinated. Yeah, he was pretty much standing.

He was passionate about it. You hear a story like this and what do you think? It's it's heartbreaking for two reasons, right? One, because somebody lost their life. And that's, you know, it doesn't matter what you think politically or anything. Somebody died because of this virus when it's something that could be prevented with a vaccine. And then it's sat on the other end because this is a man who had a platform, who has a microphone, who has a show. And he's out here preaching this information that is false.

That's problematic. That is causing us. other people to die because they're not getting vaccinated and they're putting themselves in harm's way. And we're hearing all these stories about doctors being frustrated and people in Mississippi taking ivermectin that's for livestock and all this bad misinformation, misinformation that's floating out here when it could be prevented. And then to hear that in his last days, he was regretful and saying that he wished he would have been vaccinated. It's like how many people could he have helped if he wasn't so against something that health, let me say this again, if he wasn't

against something that is being politicized, you know, if he wasn't fighting against something for just because to hold on to whatever your politics are, rather than listening to people who are actually well-versed and experts in the field of health. So it's really sad. And I know his story isn't a one-off. There are many stories like it. And I just hope that people are out here getting the information for themselves and not listening to people who are uneducated and not well-versed in the topic. Yeah. So Donald Trump has actually changed his tune.

What you're starting to see, as far as the radio disc jockey, the guy died, I think when I, and I take no, I'm just, I'm not in a position to be happy to somebody pass away. I see a lot of people on Instagram and Twitter. Like, hey, play stupid games, get super prizes. I think about him gasping for air there. his last breaths, wishing that he had taken a vaccine that could have been in his death. But I hope that people are smart enough to understand that there are actually stakes for

decisions that you're making. And those stakes could be final. So it's a big deal. Trump has changed his tune on the vaccine a little bit. Former president Donald Trump, you remember, he did not take a picture with him getting injected with the vaccine. He refused to actually come out and tell everybody to go out and get the vaccine and and really stump forward hard.

And I think what he's seeing now is and what the right is seeing is a lot of the states that are being hardest hit, Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, parts of Georgia are all places where vaccine hesitancy is pretty high, Mississippi. And because of that, the right is finally starting to come around to the idea of maybe advocating for the vaccine. And I think that there are political reasons behind this. President Trump was down in Alabama doing a rally, and he told the crowd there to go get vaccinated. And this was the response. Play the cook. And you know what?

I believe totally in your freedoms. I do. You got to do what you have to do. But I recommend take the vaccines. I did it. It's good. Take the vaccines. But you got, no, that's okay.

That's all right. You got your freedoms. But I happen to take the vaccine. If it doesn't work, you'll be the first to know, okay? I'll call up Alabama and say, hey, you know what? But it is working. But you do have your freedoms. You have to keep you.

You have to maintain that. You have to maintain that. And you got to get your kids back to school. Right, there you go. So now what we're seeing is Ron DeSantis. That's a break from Ron DeSantis that Trump is exhibiting there. Ron DeSantis is down there standing very, very, very strong in the grave sites of Floridians and pushing back against mandates, not recommending

the vaccine. And we're seeing it really costs in places where we're from and all over the place. So much so to the fact that the people won't even believe their God, President Trump. You heard the booze there when he brought up the vaccine. That was a home game for him and he got booed. It's like Kobe getting booed in the Staples Center for missing a free throw. So I don't know. If Trump didn't convince them, these people are never going to get it, right?

Like they're completely lost. They're too far gone. It's like they were doing everything he was telling them to do. And now he's telling them to get the vaccine and they're still. And it's like you curated these people. You're like you're part of the reason that these people are so against getting this vaccine. And now that you're saying get it, they still don't want to do it. These people can't be saved.

They're too far gone. They're too far gone. Well, got to try. Got to try because these people are us. No, listen, I agree with you. It's just like I'm the fact that it was shocking to me that they booed Trump. Not that Trump said get the vaccine. It was shocking to me that they booed him over saying this,

which lets me know how against they are the vaccine. And it's, it's tough. These are people who I don't think, I'm hopeful that something can change their minds. but if the very person who got them believing that the vaccine was wrong can't change their mind when he's had a change of heart. Yeah. So I don't know if it's fair to say that Trump got them believing that the vaccine was wrong. Because no, I don't think that's fair.

And I'm being honest here because remember, Trump's White House was behind Operation Warp Speed and trying to get the vaccine out there. I think that he was. His vaccine. Well, no, the vaccine's period. Okay. but then why do you have people that are, you know, pro-Trump who are calling it saying Trump's vaccine? Trump's vaccine.

They differentiated it, right? Like, he made it seem like it was a problem when he didn't win become the president. And it was Biden who took over. It made, he separated it is what is, I guess, how I felt. And maybe I'm wrong on that. So what really happened here is that the evangelicals and the religious right somehow got into their mind that the vaccine was evil. and so Trump being a populist, he actually thinks from the bottom up,

Trump is not a leader, the people lead him. So the vaccine hesitancy that was existing would have needed the president to combat it. And he didn't combat it aggressively enough because it would have been unpopular with his base. As far as the vaccine, Trump was trying to get the vaccine rolled out more than anyone because he thought that the vaccine was going to,

to be the ticket to another four years for him. Do you think that if he had successfully, if he had won and then the vaccine, because the vaccine would have come about regardless. If he had won, do you think these people would have taken the vaccine? No. See, I think they would have.

I think they would have. No, I don't because I think that the main thing that Trump was doing, Trump, my problem with Trump and a lot of people on the right is that my problem with the Tucker Carlson's and the Donald Trump, Trumps and the Candice Owens and all of these people

is that they're vaccinated. Correct. They're vaccinated. We know that they're vaccinated. And the fact that they're vaccinated and then they still won't talk about why they got vaccinated, why other people should get vaccinated, why the vaccine makes sense.

It's because they're catering to and kowtowing to the lowest common denominator in their respective basis. And they're letting it. They're letting those people and the cult of whatever they are control them. So really Trump's failure of leadership is not about the fact that he wasn't for the vaccine.

His White House clearly was for the vaccine. It was about the fact that he wasn't willing to push back against his base and lean into him being vaccinated in order to dispel myths and rumors about the vaccine that allow vaccine hesitancy to continue. Okay. I think that became Trump. But you have to go back to when we first learned about COVID. Trump, when I say Trump curated this, he told them that this was a virus that wasn't real.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. He told them that this wasn't a real thing. So why would you get a vaccine against something that's not real, against something that's just like the flu? These people are saying the same things that Trump was saying. And so, and he for a very long time started to say that it wasn't, he didn't start preaching vaccine until it came towards the election because he wanted to be elected, like you said. So the reason I say that he, the reason I say that he curated these, these people. is because he preached for so long that this wasn't a real threat. It wasn't real. And if you really buy into that ideology, that ideology, then why would you want a vaccine for something that's not really out here?

That's why I say that. So I think that where I agree with you, I think we're disagreeing at the margins. I think where I agree with you is that Trump laid the sort of foundation for skepticism against science. Don't believe what you're seeing on the news. it's all fake, none of it's real, and that kind of mutated into people's belief that the vaccine couldn't possibly be helpful.

In terms of that, though, you know, Operation Warp Speed and what they were trying to do, they were trying to do it for political reasons, but the saving grace of his whole thing was going to be the fact I got America vaccinated. Sure. All right. I agree.

Operation Warp Speed was first rolled out on April 29th, 2020. So the White House took the step, his White House took the step. And by the way, it's rare that you're going to ever hear me credit the Trump administration. But and it wasn't for any reasons that are egalitarian or pure or whatever. It was for strictly political reasons. But they tried to fast track getting the vaccines out. For political reasons.

Yes. Yes. For political reasons. But that wasn't what Trump was really preaching because you have to go back. Remember, he was applauding. governors who were opening up their states. And he was trying to do rallies that summer. And so it was like, yeah, they were trying to get a vaccine.

But when you think about Trump in 2020 in that time, it wasn't him preaching about the vaccine. It was more so inject this into your skin and rub this onto yourself. And it's not real. And it'll disappear. And east by Easter and all the bad signs hit it with light. But what I'm saying is he didn't preach the vaccine, which he should. have preached the vaccine. But what I'm telling you is that he was never anti-vaccine.

He was, and so that's something he was never anti-a-vaccine. He just never said anything. Like Tucker Carlson is like anti-vaccine, asking questions. How do we know this about the vaccine? How do we know about that? The vaccine? Well, Tucker, why don't you fucking tell us you took it?

So, um, all right. So, Beyonce and Jay-Z are doing their thing. Beyonce just became the first black woman to wear the iconic Tiffany Diamond. All right. I want you guys to hear this. It's a beautiful campaign.

It's very important. The powerhouse couple is the new face of a Tiffany and Company ad campaign celebrating modern love. All right. The jeweler announced today. Beyonce shared some of these pictures on her Instagram. She's wearing a large yellow diamond. Necklace in the photos. That's the iconic 128-kart Tiffany Diamond, which company acquired an 8,000.

1878. That's beautiful. And it rarely puts it on display. Audrey Hepburn wore it, publicity photos for it, reference to Tiffany's Lady Gaga Award to the 2019 Academy Awards, the Tiffany Diamond, Lady Gaga Award.

Beyonce is the first black woman to wear this diamond that no doubt came from Africa. In the year 2021, They gave it to Audrey Hepburn. They gave it to Gaga. Lady Gaga. She's only a fourth woman to wear it

more than a century. Not only only Miles Stone, some photos showed that the couple posed in front of a large turquoise painting. John Michael Baskiatz painting the 1982 work came from a private collection. It's never been seen before, according to Tiffany.

All right. Also, as part of this, just to let you everybody know all the information. Jayze and Beyonce got Tiffany to donate $2 million to HBCUs. $2 million to HBCUs. They are now doing, I guess, a campaign with Tiffany. I saw this and I was immediately annoyed.

I don't know why. I was annoyed. Are you having a bad day? I don't understand why this was annoying to you, but please explain. First of all, I want your take on it before I go in. No, no, no. No, I'm not. I, I, please go ahead.

No, you're annoyed. I'll tell you, I'll tell you what I think. Okay. So let me tell you why. Number one, Tiffany is now part of LVMH. Is it not? What's LVMH? Louis Vuitton, Moed Hennessy.

Let me make sure this is true. Tiffany and company, I'm pretty sure Tiffany and company is now a part of LVMH. Let me look this up. Yes, parent company LVMH. Okay. And that is. what? Louis Vuitton Moed Hennessy. Oh, okay. So Louis Vuitton, Moet, Hennessey, like Rihanna's under LVMH, you know, obviously Louis Vuitton is under LVMH, Moet is under LVMH.

Okay. So LVMH holding company. All right. It has a, the key people at LVMH, the key guy is Bernard R. No. All right, Bernard R. No, how much money do you think he's worth? Billions. How many billion? Is this what Rihanna's fragrance is under as well? Fenty is under that too. How many billions do you think Bernard Arnault is worth? Guess.

50. Okay. Benar Al-No is the richest man in the world. Okay. So like 100. Or the third or the third richest right now. It goes back and forth. Bernard Arnaud is worth $174 billion.

Okay. Wow. All right. So $174 billion. LVMH. LVMH is a brand that I know of. because my uncle gave me some Hennessy when I was a kid. My mama and them actually used to put a little Hennessy in the bottom to calm me down.

Okay. For the teething. Mm-hmm. The Louis Vee I know because of the rappers. The Moet, I know because of puffing them. Okay. So all of those brands to me are steeped and rooted in blackness. I have no problem with Bernard Arnaud. I have no issue with him.

Get your money, Bernard Arnaud, even though you're a billionaire. I don't think you need to have that much money is whatever. He has $174 billion. Bernard Arnaud doesn't need any help from Jay-Z and Beyonce. LVMH doesn't need any help from Jay-Z and Beyonce. Not to mention the political reasons while putting a diamond on that was mined in 1878, probably on stolen land from a bunch of people that looked like you and me, a huge blood diamond that Tiffany's had over and hoarded over this entire time,

that wealth that hasn't benefited the people where that diamond came from in any way. all right for that entire time the bottom line is if black people are going to have their own luxury brands if black people are going to have their own luxury goods if one day one of us is going to get to be a crusty old 174 million billion dollar person right then what we have to do is we have to stop people we have to stop having people who have it all right going to still with prestigious luxury white owned brands that have never given a fuck about us and elevate black luxury brands and I'm not saying that beyond saying Jay-Z don't do that exactly but what I am saying is there's no reason for them to do this is no reason there's just no reason for them to click up

with Tiffany right now when you say all black everything and that by the way that all black everything thing that comes from Jay-Z, all-black everything. Like, this is another situation that's weird. The NFL move. That's weird to me. Why I go in business with the NFL? Why I go in business with Tiffany and the blood diamonds? Why do the whole deal?

Why act like it's a stat that is 2021 and she the first black woman to ever put the diamond on? That would make me not want to put that bitch on. Like, 2021 and she's the first black woman to ever put the diamond on, that would make me not want to put the diamond on it. Okay. So this is what I'm confused by. Are you saying that you can't be a first in anything?

I'm saying that there's certain firsts that you shouldn't want. Okay. So here's the thing. That's something that they put on. I don't think Beyonce and Jay-Z, and it's really to Beyonce because she's the one wearing it. I don't think she's toting around the fact that she was the first to do this. I guess I don't, I'm not looking at it.

Blood, Diamond. a sign because that's a very, very good point. I don't understand why people are harping on Beyonce for being a part of this campaign as if she's not making money off of it. And here's the thing too. Not only is she getting paid to be a part of this campaign, Beyonce and Jay-Z are well known and documented in giving back and putting into the community. There's certain things that we know and I'm sure there's a whole lot that we don't know. So I have no problem with Beyonce being a black face for this company,

them paying her to do it, and then her to take her money because she uses her money and her wealth to put it back in the community. What is the problem with that? I think that we're being a little bit too nitpicky when it comes to that. So what she, like your blood diamond thing,

I'm not even going to touch that because I get that. I get what you're saying that. Well, I mean, you're saying that. You're divorcing it away from a tremendous amount of the argument. Because this was my argument before, right? So, like, I get what you're saying about the blood diamond. I'm just taking that off the table. You're right.

Like, why would you want to wear that diamond around you? Totally understand that. But the point you're making, I didn't see a lot of that on Twitter. And so my thing is, is why are people so upset that she's taking somebody else's money and they put money back in the community? Beyonce and Jay-Z aren't people who are hoarding their wealth. for themselves, they constantly are giving back. And so I guess I just didn't see what the big deal was it. I thought that they, that she looked beautiful in the campaign. I think it's great that she's

getting this opportunity. And she's a person, it, Jay-Z says all-black everything. Maybe Beyonce says the same thing, but maybe she's not all-black everything. But a lot of what she does is about celebrating blackness and teaching the next generation to love on themselves. And she's constantly giving back so I have no issues with it whatsoever. I guess I just really didn't think it was that big of a deal. Now when you bring the blood diamond part into it, totally understand. Tiffany don't need everything back. I take everything back.

Tiffany don't need no black faces. Okay. Tiffany. And that's fine. Tiffany been doing their thing for a long time. And some people believe in like- And by the way, we don't need no more black faces. We need black companies.

Like the reality is that like taking all of our best creatives, like the fact that virtual. But they do have, they do the stuff with black. Like the fact that The fact that Virgil went over to work under Louis V after starting off white

It's like I understand that Virgil I have no problem with Virgil's not a billionaire First of all This is all just my personal opinion They move however they want to move But to be honest with you

I don't I'm off that period Like seriously Like I'm off that I'm off Tiffany I'm off Tiffany I'm off fucking in Louis V. I'm off Gucci. I'm off Doche and Gabana. I'm off Hugh. I used to wear Hugo Boss. I'm off Hugo Boss. Tiffany, Doche and Gabana, Louis V, Hugo Boss, all of these people, they had their time.

They've been going around for 100 years doing the same shit, making money off us. Black companies come and fucking go during the time that we support shit from 100 year old companies. from white people. This shit started back in the 1800s. We make it hot, keep it going, get buried in it, and then another generation, the shit just keeps going. I don't know why we, I don't know why we want to do this. The fucking shit is weird. It's plenty of black luxury brands that are out there right now that need that luxury created for them, not just black bi-pac, period. If we're ever going to grab a chunk of that, I just, to me personally, Beyonce and Jay-Z do a lot for the community.

They do whatever. It just annoys me when I see a steal essentially becoming mascots for a company like Tiffany. If they're getting paid off of it and then putting it back into the community, I don't have an issue with it. But let me ask you this. Fini is under that company. Do you have a problem with that? Because she's not 100% owning it. He owns half that.

Yeah. So, no, I don't have a problem with it. And the reason why I don't have a problem with it is because it's her brand. It's her brand that he owns 50% of. And I'm not against it, but I'm just, I'm questioning off of what you're saying. He owns 50% of it. So she's a billionaire. He's getting that money as well.

I know. He's getting richer too off of her. It's her name and face. Remember, remember what I'm saying is in this particular situation, that's a, Fenty is going to be a luxury brand that is established by a black woman. that makes a white man richer as well. Yeah, there's very few things in life you can do that don't make a white man richer as well. But like this, but.

So it's not all black everything. No, but, well, no. Well, in that case, then nothing is all black everything because what you're talking about, and this is another thing that we're talking about. I'm not saying you have to own your black situation 100%. Okay, that was my question. There's partnerships that you have to have to do. But what I'm talking about is to me,

going and being the face of a white-owned brand doesn't do anything for black people. It does if you get paid off of it and then you take that money and put it back into the community. You're always talking about taking some money and putting it back into the community. Like, don't we understand that that shit is not working? Like, dude, don't we understand that like we taking that money and putting it back into the community? We've been talking is taking that money and putting it back in the community shit for like a generation. And we're not able to put enough money into the community for the community ever to make strides forward. it seems as if what needs to happen is a realignment of what it is we think success is.

Now look, right now if you, if you, if Rachel invents Rachel Pop, Rachel Pop soda. Oh, it's Rachel Pop. We're drinking it up. It's Rachel Pop. Come get you a cup. It's Rachel Pop. That's your song. I gave you that for free.

So go invent the soda. If you invent Rachel Pop and you get to where you want, you can't get Rachel Pop to scale. Coke comes in and say they want to help you get Rachel Pop to scale, you're going to maintain creative control of Rachel Pop and 51% of racial Pop, even if it's 49% of Rachel Pop. And be able to pick the Rachel Pop board members, I have no problem with you doing what you're doing. Rachel Pop is a black-owned soda thing that is out there

with a black woman who got it, boom, and that money is economically flowing back into the community. That's different than hiring you. It's economically going back into the community because I'm black. It's economically going back in the community because you are a black woman and you're setting up generational wealth for your kids. I guess they'll be black. For your kids.

For your kids and everybody else, right? For my family. But how do you know I'm using my money for the community? You see what I'm saying? Just because I'm black and I'm, and I. Your family is the community. Your kids, like your family is the community. Okay, but, but, but I get what you're saying.

I'm black owned and I'm setting generational wealth. But if I'm also the face of a of Coke, I'm also making money that's giving, that allows me to invest in other things that's going to provide generational wealth for my family as well. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe you're doing it.

Maybe you're good with it for a little while. Coke fires you. Maybe, maybe, but, but my point is this. With Jay-Z and Beyonce, it's a different situation because what Jay-Z and Beyonce have the opportunity to do, this is Van Lathen. broke nigger giving billionaires advice, so please take it with a grain of salt. What Jay-Z and Beyonce could do is use their faces to create that generational wealth for a brand

other than Tiffany. See what I'm saying? I'm not talking about them making money. Obviously, they're getting paid. They don't need any more financial help. But what they could do is with somebody else who's, look them up. There are luxury black designers, black jewelers who Jay-Z and Beyonce, some of them do support everywhere, but to be the face of one of their campaigns,

to be the face of one of their lines, to be the face of that would mean more, and maybe we would be able to establish, like, something going forward. Everything that comes out, we on it, Michael Mary dreams, Michael Mary a white dude, Michael Mary stuff, everybody doing it. Everybody, I'm going to the Oscars one day. There's no disc to Trayvon and Martin.

They went to the Oscars. They wore Dolce and Gabana. No problem. I'm going to the Oscars. one day. I'm going to get my chance to go. And some niggas go and dress me. That's great. It's going to be pyre moss or somebody like that. Some niggas are going to dress me. I'm going to wear black threads there. I feel strongly about this. That $100 billion that we're talking about that he has, that Bernard Arnault has, rich people all over the world buy all of that stuff.

It's not just black people. But we helped in that. We give these people free. commercials. We do this all the time. But I understand, I understand what you're saying about wanting to do all black everything and support black owned businesses and designers and all of that and then lift us up and put us on the map. I think you can do both, but I understand your point of view as well. I just don't agree with it. But it is what it is. Good for her. Like look, good for Jay-Z and Beyonce. It's another bag. They are the bad couple, endless bags. They do a lot of great things. I happen to know personally

they fund people they get people out of jail they bailed them out they do all kinds of great things what I'm saying is I was mildly annoyed and not just mildly I tweeted a while ago people called me performative

I tweeted a while ago I said I will never wear another white designer ever again yes you've yeah we've talked about that on the podcast before you totally said that never wear another never wear another white even this NASA shirt that I'm wearing

this NASA shirt is black this doesn't stand for NASA okay okay All right, this stands for Y'all watch fan now This stands for niggas are sailing again

You can't wear Jordans He can't wear anything Nothing y'all watch his feet All that All that Yeah, y'all watch him now Yeah, tell you guys

Here's the deal Here's the deal Obviously I'm gonna wear some Nike shit See what I'm saying See what I'm saying But because look It's just not a lot of people making shoes All black everything

All black Yeah watch his feet Y'all watch him now But what I'm telling you is when it's time to show out. I'm going to buy you some stuff for your birthday. When it's time to show out and be a billboard for somebody and be put on display, award shows, stuff like that, there's going to be some niggas. Even if the shit is a Gordon Gartrell.

Even if it's a Gordon Gartrell, it's going to be some niggas. Please, thought warriors, if God don't know who Gordon Gartrell is. Please look that up. Please. Even if it's a Gora Gartrelle. No hate on J.Z. Beyonce. I love J.Z. Beyonce.

I love him both. Never coming on this show. I love them both. I love them both, man. It's like sitting up there with these. Who can fuck Tiffany? She's beautiful. Give a fuck about Tiffany.

Oh. Oh, Rach. What? I got to ask you a question. My very serious question. Okay. Is about something that's sweeping the internet right now. We got to go, but this is my very serious question of the week.

I'm sure you've seen the milk crate challenge. I have. My question to you and to everyone, is the milk crate challenge the best of black culture, or is the milk crate challenge the worst of black culture? You guys, if you guys don't know, for some reason, they stacking up milk crates all over the motherfucking, I haven't seen a milk crate in years. They're stocking up milk crates all over the world, and they're in a pyramid shape,

and you're supposed to walk over the milk crates without falling. When these people fall, these milk crates are flimsy. They bust their fucking asses. And if you walk to the end, sometimes you get bread. Now, at first, this looked like this was something they were having addicted people do or whatever. But now everyone's doing it. I saw a girl do it in her heels. I saw a guy do it.

White Mike. Shout out White Mike somewhere. Did it while he's rolling a blunt. Is the Milk Crate challenge as far as black culture is concerned? Is it the best of us? We're finding ways to have fun. We're coming up with new ingenious things. We're doing all of this.

Or is it the worst of us? Once again, we're putting our safety at risk for some low vibrational nigger shit. Which one is it? The best of us are the worst. Can I please get it in between? It's neither. No, you can't have no in between. You keep one to do in between.

I know because you're not giving me. It's such a tough option. Is it the best of us? Hell no. It's not the best of us, right? We've so been better before. We've had better challenges before. I don't know what they are.

Give me a second. I'll think of it. I'd rather take the plank challenge than this. Was that us? Did we start the plank challenge? I don't know. But the plane challenge wasn't no challenge. That was a fucked up dance.

You plank on something. It was a challenge. It was a thing. Yeah. I'm like you. First of all, I kept saying, what is a milk crate? Where are people getting these milk crates from?

Did you say what is a milk crate? I had to think about that. Honestly, when I heard about it at first, when I heard about it at first, I thought they were cinder blocks. I was like, wait, what? I was like, what are they doing? And then I looked at it and I'm like,

where are these? Where do you find these from? Where is everybody getting all these milk crates from? That was my first thought. Then I'm watching, I'm like, okay. I mean, I guess, is it the worst of us? I'm not amused. Okay, so maybe it's the worst.

I'm not amused. I saw one person do it. I saw one person make it. I saw one person fall. I don't get it. I don't really get into most of these challenges. I get tired of them and bored with them very quickly. I'm not amused by people falling and hurting themselves that much.

Call me boring. Call me a square. I don't know. I guess I'm going to have to say it's the worst of us. I'm not entertained. Yo, here's the thing, man. I'm sorry. I'm an old nigger and I just can't.

I'm officially an old nigger. Yeah, I guess I'm too. The milk crate challenge made me an old nigga. Because I don't like, I see people. You didn't think it was funny? No. I mean, it's kind of, don't get me wrong. It's compelling video.

I'm good after two or three. Watching the milk crate challenges fucking compelling. That's like it's, let's not be obtuse. Watching the milk crate challenge is compelling why somebody get over to, or will they get to the end? When they fall though, them falls are fucking. treacherous man them falls are crazy

I'm them falls are crazy I saw a dude fell right on his McBackin McBack back back back And he's just his I've seen people fall on their McBackens

I've seen people fall on their neck neckings I've seen ankles rolled I've seen all Why? Why would you want to put yourself at risk? I guess I'm old too

It's not it's not the best of us, that's for sure. I'm not into it. So would you do it? If your friends had a, if your friends had a stack of milk crates? No, no. It wouldn't either.

No, no, I wouldn't do it. It's not worth it. I wouldn't do it at all. But like, if there was money at the end, I haven't seen anybody get paid, like you said. If there was money at the end, how much money would it take for you to walk up the milk crate pyramid? Do you understand how on the mend I'm going to

going to be if I fall off the mill crates? How much money? I'm not doing it. A mill? Yeah, I'll do it for a mill. Okay. I do it for a mill. Of course I do it for a mill, but do you understand?

100, 100 G's? 100 Gs, I could probably go across the mill crate too. Okay. See, see, here's the problem, though, with all you guys that say. Because you're going to need it, because you don't have insurance. So here's the problem with all you guys that say that you wouldn't do something for like 50,000. The problem with it is that you've never seen 50,000 cash.

I do it for 50. See what I'm saying? The problem with people saying that they wouldn't do something for 50, oh, I need a million dollars. I need it. For most people that are listening to this right now, if I show you 50 cash, it's going to look like a million. That's so true.

Like you've never seen 50 cash. Like you being the homie crib and they doing all that shit, you know how much is that? And they're like, oh, what's that? It's 37, 38? something like that. I'm like, God damn,

that looks like all the money in the world. So if you get like 100, you're out of here. All right. That's enough. I'm getting lit up for my tweet on,

uh, on, what's your tweet? My tweet about being annoyed and Jay Z and then? Uh, are people on, agreeing with me or you?

No, they're saying that I work for TMZ. Oh, damn. You know what? This is, this is what I really do appreciate, though.

People, are always going to bring up TMZ with you and they're always going to bring up the bachelor with me. Why are you talking? You were on the bachelor. Why are you talking? You're on TMZ and I'm like, you know what? You're right. I don't have a billion dollars so fuck y'all. All right.

That's it for us. Tell you things caps off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Thank you to our guest Larry Wilmore and thank you to our producers, Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham. We'll catch you guys next Thursday.

Wow. We'll catch you guys on here on this week. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile, with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

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