Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Verzuz Reactions and Michael Arceneaux on Intracultural Conflict | Higher Learning | The Ringer

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

On a special episode of 'Higher Learning,' Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay are in the studio, recording in person for the first time! They discuss everything from Chris Cuomo losing his job (16:48) to an eventful Verzuz between Bone Thugs-N-Harmony and Three 6 Mafia (24:11). Then bestselling author Michael Arceneaux joins to break down a controversial scene in Amazon Prime’s new show 'Harlem' (1:12:50).   Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? How are learning is on? It is I, Van Lathen. And it's me, Rachel Lynn Linton. We're in person. We're in person. We're recording in person here.

Trudy's to my right. Trudy's got a mask on. So here's the thing. Let's talk about this real quick. So let's talk about COVID dynamics. Okay. Because we're not wearing masks. We're not.

We're also not six feet apart. We're not six feet apart. Okay. Trudy and Isaac. who's the engineer right now, they're both wearing masks. So how does that work? Shouldn't everybody just take their mask off

if we're all in the same room right now? Play mask off. Play mask off. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. I dare you. Trudy, take it. Why are you, why are you putting it on? You're making me, boom. Peer pressure. Peer pressure. Peer pressure.

Amaria. Touch variant is under nose right now. I don't know, my boxing trainer was out sick today. Wait, but do you know why? I don't. Did you ask? He said he has a stomachache. He's lying to you.

He's lying to you. But I think a stomachache is one of the early symptoms. Is that true? It is a new symptom. It might not be new. Don't hold me to that. But it is a symptom that's new to me that I just learned about. We have our name on the building here.

Let me ask you this. Does it feel weird that we're doing this in person? I feel like we do. been doing this. Kind of real. A little bit. It feels comfortable. We have our name on the building here at Spotify.

Okay. It's not on the building. Let's just be clear. It's not on like the outside. It doesn't say Spotify, higher learning. Yes, it does. With Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay. That's not what it says.

But we'll get there. We are, so we're in Spotify down here. I'm not going to tell you guys where it's at because I don't want you guys stalking us and trying to get down to where we're at. I think they can figure it out. But like when you're walking down the halls here, it says like it points to a room and it says higher learning. Right.

Nobody can figure out what this room is. It's not a podcast recording room. It's not like our podcast recording room. I think I solved the mystery. What's the mystery? They have named rooms after podcasts, popular ones. Yeah. On Spotify.

Podcasts that will record here. Higher learning being one of them. Also, it's a great name for a room. Is it not? Like, come on. I don't know that I'm going to go ahead and give you any credit on your explanation. What do you want it to be? I think I wanted to be something a little bit more whimsical than that, you know?

Take it away. Maybe that, okay. So maybe the room, right? Think about it. Maybe the room is not a meeting room, right? It's a room where people, they go inside the room and they sit there and they have to listen to old podcasts of ours over and over and over again until they actually become thought warriors. Maybe that room is actually

a thought warrior conversion room. Like maybe you could take like a, I don't know, a Tucker Carlson. Right. And then he could walk in here, you know, you know Tucker Carlson. You can see his soul. It's just a walking swastika, right? And he walks into the room and he sits down and you start playing, yo, yo, yo,

thought warriors, what's up? Is I, Van Lenthen Jr. It's me, Rachel Lynn Lenthey. And over and over going, when, when, When Tucker Carlson walks out of the room, he's got a fucking coot-on. And saying, he's got a coo-on saying nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger.

Tucker Carlson has totally changed. Okay, I don't like it. I don't want him in the room. Well, I mean, you'd have to, I mean, it's not going to be, you know, like, you want to convert somebody that's hard to get. All right? We'll workshop this. We'll workshop.

Donald Trump Jr.? Yeah. Soup Kitchen. Oh! No! Oh! Come on! We're not 10.

In the podcast, so you're already bringing up soup kitchen. Soup kitchen. Wow. Week, and I wonder what soup kitchen is doing. Let me see what Soup Kitchen's latest Instagram post is, your nemesis. People, I love that people call him soup kitchen, by the way. Whenever you guys... Do they really?

Yeah, they do. By the way, I spoke to Chris Nigger. What was her name again? What was the girl's name? Chris Nigger? Niggin. Kin's nigger. I spoke to her.

We were supposed to have her on the podcast today. Wait, what happened? What was, what did she say her last name is? She said nobody got it right. She said no one got it right. No, Negan. Negan. Negan.

Niggin. Niggin. Niggin. Hold on. Let me tell you something. Soup Kitchen is on a boat with Laura Zima. Who is Laura Zima? His fiancee.

Oh, he's married to he's getting, he's getting with Laura Zima. Let me check out what's going on with Laura. Laura's got some Emmys? Okay. Okay. Soupy? All right, soup. You are so into him.

Okay, soup soup, soup. Soup soup doing his thing. Soup Soup has to. Deleted his Instagram. Soup soup only got five pictures up. He deleted his Instagram. Do you know what else he did? What?

Unfollowed you? Me? And a couple other black people from Bachelor Nation. I've yet to talk about this. What? Soup Kitchen unfollowed you? It's so interesting to me. I don't want to get into it deep, but, and I haven't talked about it because I didn't really want to acknowledge it.

But yeah, he completely took his Instagram away. People start, you know, people bring it to my attention. And I was like, no, because I still follow him. Not that I pay attention to what he's going on, but it's like it's so petty to unfollow someone, especially someone who's your friend, especially someone who's, you know, doing the work and doing all this listening and learning.

The only work he did was unfollow me. That's what it seems like. Who else did he unfollow? I believe a guy named Mike Johnson. Oh, I know Mike. Mike Johnson's the guy with the... I say a guy like he's not my friend. Wait,

Mike Johnson's the guy with the, he's the guy with the sea lion photo, right? That was him. That was the guy with the sea lion photo. You don't have to remember him like that. Yeah, that was a little sea lion, nigga. Otherwise, I would tell you, because I want to get that right.

Will you look? I can't believe it. So look, I'm up here right now. He only follows 333 people. This is who he follows. Follows Warren Buffett. He follows, who is, who is, who is Damon? Damon, who?

Damon, I follow this guy too. Damon, I'm a producer. Hi, I'm good times. What do I, where do I know this guy from? I don't know who this guy is. Anyway, I follow him too. Stanley Tucci, he follows. He follows Russell Brand, George Strait.

Okay. You followed these people? Is that why you can see them? He follows Colt. Oh, he follows Colton Underwood. Interesting. All right. Fouts Tal and Mary.

Tala Mary, a guy who's going to have on the podcast pretty soon. Shout to Tyler. Okay, so soup kitchen unfollowed you. Are you mad about it? No. I mean, I think it's just very telling. No, it's just something that I, yeah, he did unfollow Mike Johnson. God damn.

Yeah. Yeah. So tough. I mean, it is what it is. It's telling, right? Actions speak louder than words. You know, you're erasing your Instagram. You're starting a new life, a new chapter, and you erase certain people from that life.

It's not like we were friends in the first place. That's what they say. They say when you're going to move on, you got to get all the toxic. energy out of your life. Yeah. You're a toxic energy to him. Had that man eating cheeses on his couch for weeks of time. You are so, you have such an obsession with what this man is doing.

It's just so funny. It's so funny. I had a soup kitchen moment. What do you mean? What did you send to the soup kitchen? I didn't get sent to the soup kitchen. I was like, listen, guys. Thought we're a community.

Sometimes Vans, you know what dickhead momentum is? Moment, not momentum. That's what dickhead momentum is. Isaac, pay attention. You don't want to have this in your life. Dickhead Momentum is a situation where you know that you're wrong, but you stay in the argument anyway. Okay, like your last Instagram post.

No, it's not, I maintain that I still have space from my point of view on the last Instagram post. We're going to talk about the show Harlem on Amazon Prime. Go check it out. We're going to talk to Michael Arsanoe about my Instagram post and why I felt like the black briber shop was being assaulted. And why people were mad. Like a lot of my brothers, it was a big conversation about it.

But, by the way, we fully want to make sure that we know that that conversation was, it came out of love. We talked to each other. We get our perspectives across. Mike was amazing. I don't want to just give credit to Mike. I want to give credit to a lot of people who call me out because there are a lot of black queer people who talk about their experiences here and I want you guys to follow and know

these amazing people. There's somebody on Instagram. Her name is Crystal. She goes by beer bottles underscore and chainsaws. She called me out. There was a guy on Instagram who called out the fact that they thought that I was, his name is Steve. But his, his name is at Blackwood, B-L-A-K-A-K- Q-U-E at black word, shall I say, W-O-R-D. So these people are all people that are like, Van, you're missing the point. You're missing the point.

You're missing the point. I still feel protected over black men, but we're going to talk to Michael. And you should. And you should. You feel protective over black men sometimes? I do. And I know you're looking at me like,

how could you? But, you know, I got black men in my life, even though I didn't marry one, okay? The playoffs are here. And you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Van Duel predict. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. What did you do this weekend? I worked. So let me tell you what I did. I did my audio recording for my book. Oh, special.

You're writing a book. Are you going to do an audio recording? It's done. Oh, you finished the book. Are you going to do an audio recording? Yeah. I got to tell you, it's just as hard as writing the book. I mean, obviously the book takes more time.

I hope not, because writing the book. Shout out to Chrison Trotman and the people over at Hachette Legacy Lit. Writing the book was goddamn impossible. It's hard. It's a different level of hard. Right. Because. Hey

Hey It's a different level of heart You like that You like that Isaac Yeah go ahead It's not a regular It's not like when you It's not like when you first

Like not like when that first wake up hard You know what I mean You know what I mean? It's not like that It's like it's a different level of heart It's harder It's like that rocked up hard Now go ahead Anyways

reading the words that you wrote out loud, you got to put emotion and feeling behind them and go back to the place that you were when that moment happened and you have to feel whatever you were experiencing, that's a lot of emotion. It takes a lot. So it takes like 10 to 12 pages, and that's if you're doing well for one hour.

Yes, it took me four days, seven to eight hours each day. Give me an example of how you read your book. Well, at first she told me that I had my extra voice And we've talked about that I love the extra voice Hi! No, it's not... We're here at Walt Disney World for the premiere of Jungle Cruise

We're hoping to see Dwayne The Rock Johnson. The Rock Johnson! No, but I was kind of like I don't know, I can't think of a passage of the book, but you know, I was like, hey guys, it's Rachel Lindsay and I... And she was like, almost like your higher learning voice.

Like, talk to me, have a conversation, with me. Right. You know, or she would stop and say, but what did you feel? You were frustrated. Let me hear your frustration.

Let me hear your anger. Let me hear. Like, I cried at points when I was reading my book. So the audio recording really pulls something out of you. And I wish I would have read my whole book out loud

before I submitted the final thing. Because I catch things as I was catching things as I was reading it out loud. I caught something in my book and I'm going to go ahead and just talk about it right now. So, in writing the book,

did you have somebody with you when you wrote it? Yes. So I did too. Now look, you guys... You never would have gotten done. You guys, it's impossible. You have to have somebody. Get over it.

Get over it. You have to... It's all me, but get over it. Yeah. So it was very interesting I caught this in my book. So there's a part in my book about the first time I met Jesse Williams, right?

I met Jesse Williams on the basketball court. Like way before we worked on the movie together and stuff like that. Is this before Grace's Anatomy? it might be in a little bit before Gray's Anatomy. Okay. By the time we got cool, he was on Graz Anatomy. Okay.

But I saw him for the first time at the LA Fitness over there on La Ciena. and so it was before. And like, I remember I talk about in the book how I'm in L.A. And I hadn't really started getting out in the dating pool yet and stuff. And you get a little intimidated because you start to think, you know what I mean? You start to think. fuck this niggas at the gym with me you know how am i going to get attention for women if it's this and not just the fact that he's a good look and do but also the fact that he's super

successful and all of that stuff like that yeah yeah yeah and so we i talked about how in the book how i ended up being cool with jesse and just meeting jesse and just seeing how human beings connect and stuff. And so shout out to Leah who worked with me on the book. She's very amazing. But I caught something when I was seeing it because like I would write

this stuff and then she would rearrange it and do all of this stuff. And she goes, it was a part of the book where she goes, yeah, it didn't matter that Jesse was fine as he was anymore. And I was like, I don't know. I didn't say the nigg was fine. We got to change that. Those were Leah, those are Leah's words.

Leah's all of us. Like, like, those are Leah's words. Listen, I'm just going to let that slide. You know what I mean? Like, Leah, Leah's putting it shout out to Leah. I can't wait for you all to read the book. Fat Crazy and Tire, his name of the book. Miss me is the name of Rachel's book.

Miss me is the name of Rachel's book. It's like, damn. You can miss me with messing up my fucking title. Messing up. Miss me with that, his name of Rachel's book. And like, I'm like, I'm like, fine. Okay, we got a, and I was like, And then they're like, oh, we think it's funny that you call him fine.

I'm like, ah, we're calling fine. I got to see this, nigga. It is kind of funny, though. If I was reading, when is your book coming out? I don't know. Okay. What is your story? January 25th.

It's like really soon. They want you to do a blurb for my book. Hachette. So they wanted me to do blurbs, and I just got so lazy that I was like, I'm sorry. I didn't have time to ask people. But I'll do a blurb. I can I can I can't wait can I do the blurb you want to write your own blurb with my name with your name on it why because I think that's dope well you just told everybody that I'm not

now if I really do write it nobody's going to believe me how will they know they'll just have to read they'll know because like the way I'll let them know that you're not actually writing the blurb is I'll put like continuous references to pop culture in there me and van get along like Riggs and Murtaul and lethal weapon. We know Rachel didn't write this. I actually know who they are. And it's funny that you say that because I just wrote a blurb for Danny Pellegrino's book

and he's like a what? Danny Pellegrino is like big on pop culture and he knows everything. And I wrote it and I put a pop cultural reference in it. So there you go. That's amazing. Don't do me, Van. So we have to talk about something

and everybody let me know all the way. But, you know, first of all, my weekend was fine. I just hung out. I watched boxing. I box myself. I sparred again. It's good. That's good.

Put up the videos. People like to see that. Well, there's one video of me getting the shit kicked out of me. That's the one. I put that one up for you. So you can see it. Yeah. Phil got mad that Brandon put that up.

Brandon shifted. And then he hit me. And I was like, oh, I think I'm about to be knocked out. But then I got my thing. So look, I said something with my full chest last week. I put it down. put it down like I always do, put it down here on the podcast. It had to do with Chris Cuomo.

I said that Chris Cuomo would absolutely not be fired. This is the podcast of Van taking his L's and Ws. L's means losses, Ws means wrong. As soon as I got the fact that Chris Cuomo would not be fired, it's like they heard me from Atlanta and they fired to piss out this nigga. He has been fired. he was fired because there was apparently a sexual misconduct allegation against Chris Cuomo. Nuts.

The woman that made the allegation, its name is, oh, they don't have her name. No, they don't have her name. Just the attorney who's speaking on her behalf. Who also represents one of the women that is accusing Andrew Cuomo of sexual harassment. Now, question to the thought warrior audience. and to you. Okay. Being that we didn't know

that this allegation was there. Stop trying to be right. Don't I get a reprieve? No. Because technically he didn't get fired for what I thought he was getting fired for. No, no, no, no. Technically, he got fired

for some other shit, some despicable shit that we didn't know about. That was just the icing on the cake because Don Lemon has accusations against him and he hasn't been fired. Don's going to be thrilled that you brought that up. Well, I'm just saying that it's not a secret.

Don has, obviously, I'm not saying that I, like, believe anything. I'm just saying there are accusations out there against Don Lemon, and he is still working for CNN. I think for Chris Cuomo, and we don't even know the depth of these accusations, but I think that in trying to protect his brother, he really is kind of not going after these women, but just more of like trying to water down what his brother may have done or water down the story, rather than protect these women. or believe these women or advocate for these women who are accusing his brother of sexual harassment or sexual assault. I said the women thing, the women thing. The issue, because women are involved

and it's a sexual harassment issue, I said, I think that's the reason that he's going to be let go. Right. I think that he still would have been let go. I just think that with this, they're just like, let's just do it now. Yeah, yeah.

What does it say about the Cuomo brothers? Well, one, it says that they ride for one another, family first above everything else that includes allegations that women make about sexual harassment against a brother you're going to take your brother's word over anything that these women have to say and I think that

people aren't always who they present or appear to be they very rarely are I actually think and it's just I think somebody's got to make a documentary or a movie on this because the way that Andrew Cuomo was praised and lauded in the way that he handled the coronavirus.

And you had people like Chelsea Handler saying she wanted to marry him. And people were really boosting him. And then Mighty is the Fall when all of these allegations came out, which were already there. And now it's like what happens to that Andrew Cuomo of last year? You know what I mean? People just, you know, what's in the dark comes to light. That's interesting. I can't say that I care that much about this

I was a fan of Chris Cuomo Andrew Cuomo I was agnostic I like it didn't really either way it didn't bother me but like there is something to be said with the fact that it doesn't feel like

the swamp has been drained yet of guys who sexually abuse their positions. And it seems as if there was a, the book has almost been closed on the Me Too movement in a lot of ways. The book has almost been closed on Times Up in a lot of ways.

But obviously there's a shit ton more work to be done. Yeah. You know, and you always say this, but I just wouldn't have thought Chris Cuomo. But why? I just wouldn't have thought it.

I mean, do you really go in thinking that anybody, is like, okay, they probably have an allegation against them in the past. Did you think that about Andrew? Andrew Cuomo? No, but I could see him now. Because governors, like, guys is like at the top like that, they just get too full of themselves, man.

So you look at, you look at Harvey Weinstein. That's just like an exception. There goes a motherfucker who's probably capable of some shit like that. Like, that's so different, though. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's almost hard to talk about anybody else on the same level as him. Yeah.

Well, I mean, what you do is. it's all self-fucked up, it's all done. Well, I mean, that's it. Dave, Cuomo is gone from the, no more Cuomo, it's just that much time. Chris Cuomo, Andrew Cuomo are gone. Now, this is a question. Do you think that Chris Cuomo will find the air again somewhere?

I think people will be too afraid on mainstream media. I think people will be too afraid to take a risk on him. I can't see where he would land. He's not going to go to the other side. Mm-hmm. And who's MSNBC? No. Like I think people, I say that.

But with enough time, a white man can come back. Let me just put it that way. I mean, look, I do think that we're never going to see Matt Lauer again. Totally different situation. I know, but it's, I personally think that Cuomo situation actually almost rises to that level. Just because of the fact that he has his own allegation and then he was involved in a cover-up, an alleged cover-up. an alleged cover-up or helping his brother get whatever straight in this other situation. Maybe, oh, sorry, we found, yeah, for sure.

Maybe if, because at the end of the day, we don't really know the extent of what he did to help cover up or lead astray, you know, different people or news outlets or whatever it may be in regards to the accusations against his brother or the allegations against his brother. We don't really know. So maybe in time, if it comes out exactly what it is, then people don't have to to assume they might be a little bit more forgiving if it's not maybe them thinking the worst. So I don't know.

It'll be interesting because, I mean, I work on a show where somebody was like banned and came back after two years. Actually, three years. You went there. Yeah, that's true. He's back. He's back. You like, you fuck with him.

I like Billy Bush. Billy Bush. That tape is bad, Billy. It's bad. Bad, but my point is. Score one for the truck, sir. Did he say that? You're fucking right.

Like Billy was on that walling. Look at fucking Isaac. He's disgusting. Billy was on there. Oh, I scored waiting for the truck. Billy's just a shout out. My point is with enough time. Right.

And you lay low. Usually the doors open again for a white man. Let me ask you this. Do you give people a black people discount? In what regard. So let's say that I'm doing the show, right? Mm-hmm. And like I'm doing something.

and it's like I want Rachel Lindsay to come do the panel do the okay I'll give you this situation let's say it's two panels okay one panel is sponsored by uh rebelein okay the other panel is sponsored by just for me

you know what I mean and they want you to come talk about black hair Revalon's doing it and just for me is doing it I'm gonna assume that you don't know about any other black hair products for you to go to Just for me, which is for kids. So what? You have a grown woman brand that is, that is, that's, pattern beauty.

Pattern beauty. Pattern beauty. Pattern beauty. Thank you. Let's do pattern beauty. Shout out Tracy Ellas wrong. You got, you got Revlon or Sassoon V105 hot oil treatment. We used to use that grown up for sure, along with the royal crowd.

Right, right. You got that. You got that. And then you got, um, You got pattern beauty. They both want you, are you going to give the black owned company? A discount. Yeah.

Swiss B says that's not happening. It's not happening in Verses. She says, niggas ain't given no discounts. Swiss B says mad. He says that artists are charging five times more than non-black shows. Verses is under thriller. Triller. There goes that pop culture.

Can't wait to write the blur. Right. The blur. Triller is what I met. I corrected myself. Isn't that wide-owned? Yes. So I feel like now that they have merged with this larger company,

they know that there's more money to be had. So are they wrong? It's not like the money's coming out of Swiss and Timberlin's pockets. Why are they so wrong? for asking for more money. These are legends. These are icons. I was mad that bone thugs

were at the palladium and I wasn't there. Even though I've seen them in concert before. I've seen them. Terrible. One of the worst concert that I do on. Bone? You didn't fuck with it? Halfway through the concert,

they asked, they just stopped. Just stopped. And they said, we don't have the club. We invite all the girls to come up on stage and dance. And they just played their music and let the girls dance.

That was it. They didn't perform the more? Didn't perform. I'm not a fan of live music, so I'm a huge fan. Hate it. So Swiss said, I did a show in 23 summers and want to charge us like they sold out the damn stadium prices. Talking about yesterday's prices, not today's price.

So it probably, it's probably not their money that they're paying, but it's still probably affects the people that they can book, right? Because the people from Triller, they're like, we want to get this artist to do this. and they say, hey, they want $150,000, they want $200,000, they want whatever. Truller probably probably goes, sometimes that's out of the budget. So it probably affects the amount of shit that they can put on versus how much they're being charged. I'm mad about this.

One, I'm mad that Swiss is out here airing their business. Right. Like, that wasn't the place for you to be in the comment section telling on these folks. I get you being frustrated that that show started off with a fight. Right. Or at the end of the show, you saw people, you hadn't seen it forever. I was like, little flip. and Young Buck and everybody was trying to have their moment.

Yes, people were drunk on stage. I get that. Your frustration. But the whole reason this started was for the culture. And it was also about giving a platform to people who we haven't heard from in a long time, who meant so much to us in a certain point or time in our lives. It was about an experience. So why are you now mad for these artists who may not have worked in a really long time

to be asking to be paid good money? I was shocked that he took this. stance. I think it's so wrong. I mean, you've had like Patty LaBelle and Shaka Khan and these are icons. I would love to go see these people and you're bringing these opportunities to us. So why shouldn't they demand to be paid? So what you're saying is that they're actually not charging black people more because it's

Triller and it's like a big, you know, that's actually true. And Swiss, you want to run it up for them. That's what I'm saying. That's why I thought this was supposed to be all about the culture. So I was just shot. Like, listen, if you just wanted to talk about three six mafia and bone thugs, okay, there was a lot going on. What was that?

You saw the video, I sent a busy. I saw the video. Busy's doing this thing. Here's the thing. I hope you guys know something. Versus is not about the culture anymore. Not anymore, right? Well, versus stop being about the culture

like once Doritos got involved. Exactly. All those brands in the back. Yeah, like versus versus is like an amazing thing. I will watch the Versus and it's a great celebration of these careers and stuff. But when you do something for the culture, that means you're doing it for the culture. You know what I mean? And now Versus is a big money-making brand and so people going to want to get paid.

If I'm an artist and I'm watching a Versus at home and I see Doritos or I see liquor companies, drink companies, I see Triller in the back, I know somebody's getting paid and making money off of this. Now you're selling out shows on my name. I want to get paid for this. I see no problem with that. Charge 10 times the amount. 10 times an amount, you say. Go for it. You're always showing the soup kitchen somebody.

I'm just about people making money. I'm about people making money too. That is crazy, though. So, like, what's your black people's discount? So I put you, this is Vance very serious question of the week. What's your black people's discount? meaning let's say white people want you to do something and they want to pay you $10,000.

How much is the cultural discount worth to you? What do you charge black people for the same thing? You know what? Let's just say it was what you were talking about, like a black-owned hair brand or whatever. They tell you before because sometimes when you're getting, they go, okay now, you can pay you to come out here, but we ain't got all the money in the world.

They let you know. But they can talk to you like that because they're in the culture. Like, what's your black person's discount? It depends, honestly. Like, sometimes I'll say, you know, maybe I won't even charge you, but I won't give you what you're asking for.

Like, oh, you want it in my feed. Maybe I'll do it for free in my stories. You know, like, let's bargain here. Like, I'm not going to give you exactly what you want, but maybe I'll do something for free. A panel, I'm more inclined to do a panel or speak for free than I am for, like, something huge, huge.

But I would probably say. If I could go on a plane, you're paying me. No, you're going to pay me. But I'm more inclined. Like, you know what? I would be more inclined to have all my travel taken care of than I would be charged like a fee. If I'm going to another city where plane,

if I take my shoes off, I'm getting paid something. You don't like something. But what's the standard of black people's discount? There is no standard. It just depends who it is and what you're asking for. There's no standard. I propose a standard. Okay.

Half? Fuck, no. we nigger got to eat you're like no you say half you're going to get people See I think this is also the difference in our audiences Right I don't get a lot of

You know The culture really isn't asking Let's just be honest So I'm not really in this situation So I'm like please ask me That's because they don't think you're going to do it Because they think you're too big for them And I'm telling you please ask me

See what I said I said I come out there You don't have to pay me My discount is 25% that's nice 25% black people's discount are you saying though

you ask me to come somewhere and it's black on I give you 75 cents on a dollar for the big white let's clear up a misconception though because our listeners I don't want them thinking that everybody who comes to you

that's black is asking for a discount no okay okay let's just be clear but look if it's like here's the thing if your shit is backed by something you're paying full price

so if it's like Hey, come down to the family cookout in Texas sponsored by Nissan. You paying. If Nissan is sponsoring the family cookout, you got to break it off. Break off the fucking money, all right? But see if the family cookout is being,

if everybody in the town is family cookout at the park, we're going to have concerts and drinks and dancing and we have a panel hosted by the niggum who told Kanye off. If y'all pooling y'all resources and y'all trying to do something, I'll look out for you. But see if y'all got a corporate sponsor. Yeah, no, it says a to- And that's why it's Triller.

That's what I'm saying. That's very good point. That's a very good point. Mariah Carey. All I want for Christmas is you. You like that song? Love it. I listen to it year-round.

Is that the best Christmas song ever made? That's a tough thing to say, but it's definitely a top three for me. She makes a million dollars a year off that. That's amazing. But did you see that it wasn't a big hit when it first came out? That's wild to me. What does it mean? What does it mean?

Apparently when it first came out, it wasn't a big hit. hit as it is now. I mean, it hit number one last year, and I think this year, or maybe the year before that. Yeah, but Christmas songs never are big hits when they first come out. They've got to stand a test of time. But I guess I would just think because this is one that so many people love, and I don't know. I just thought this was number one. Easy. Easy. Do you like the song? Not really. Why? It's cool. Actually, maybe I do like it. I think so. You don't know? I'm not sure. I don't really, I think it is good. I think I like it.

I think that I like it sometimes. What? It's wrong with you. I'm not really, I don't really fuck with Christmas music like that that much. Okay, but this is a song that's very poppy and it's almost something that like,

you can hear year round. You don't just hear that, you don't hear that little bell and it just, fan. Does she have the brat on this? Oh my God. Cut that shit off. Um,

I think the Brad did one. The Brat was on it with it. Bow Wow. did. Bawa did one. This one said, like, and this is a separate topic I'm going to bring up now. Isn't Christmas

expired? Are you a Grinch? I'm not a Grinch. A Scrooge. I'm not a Scrooge, but I am 41. You're not Tiny Tim. I'm not Tiny Tim. That always makes me cry.

I feel like Christmas jumped a shark. Is Christmas still a big deal? What ruined Christmas? I feel like something ruined Christmas. I feel like Christmas has jumped a shark. I'm not going to lie. Man. I feel like I feel like... Do I do the press play again? No, I'm being for real. Like, on some real shit. Is Christmas as big of a deal as it used to be? You know what it is? It's not. No, you're not

around kids. So I get what you're saying. If you're not around kids for a long period of time for like several Christmases, it feels just like another day, like a day off from work. When I go and spend it with my nephews last Christmas, I spend it with my nephews. It might have been one of the best Christmases I've had, and I don't even know how long. Brian and I went, we stayed with my sister. I was with him when they woke up in the morning, and they were like, Santa left us these presents. It was magical.

I felt it. We made cookies. We made gingerbread houses. I was with them for the full week. It's getting like the whole thing. The Christmas tree, the presents. That felt rich. This year, I'm not going to have it.

So I understand what you mean. You've got to have children who still believe in certain things about Christmas. You know what the best thing about Christmas is? What? No traffic. When it's Christmas, you can get in your car, go up and down the 405. Why are you driving? Because I want to see what's up with L.A.

I want to drive around L.A., unfettered. Okay, I want you to go home for Christmas because I don't, you have no Christmas spirit. Zero Christmas spirit. But remember now, like my family was like frayed at the seams. So it was like, it was like, it was. It was like Christmas, when we are all together as a Christmas family, I guess it was a little bit better. But now everybody's in different places.

And I'm going to be honest with you. I never thought I would be one of those old people that would buy a gift for a kid and then be jealous of Santa. It's like, did you see what Santa brought? No, Santa didn't buy you nothing. Your Uncle Van bought that. Your Uncle Van bought that using his mouth. Oh, ooh, that sounded bad.

To talk. I used my mouth to talk. Clean it up. I used my mouth to talk. And I got you that. I don't, I don't, like, it's, I don't know, man. I feel like Christmas is, like Christmas is fucked up now. It's because what makes, I don't know, just what makes it joyful is believing in the Christmas spirit.

Is having, doing the Christmas traditional things. Like, when people ask me, what did we do for Christmas as tradition? We really, we didn't build gingerbread houses. We didn't make who. I never know one motherfucker in the world who's built. No, this was my first time doing it. Wait, what? With my sister and her kids.

Oh my God. Yo, get the fuck out of here. Y'all, yo, yo. I thought you said you've never done it. I know. I've never even known anyone who's with a gingerbread house. I just said that we made gingerbread houses. Why?

Okay, we got to talk about this real quick. So I've never, I, when I. What's the point? It's just an activity for them to do. For what? Like, kids do art and act. activities. It's called arts and crafts. That's different. And they do that around

Christmas time. But I know grown folks. I know grown white folks. No, no, no, no. You don't eat the gingerbread house. No, no, no, no. Then why don't you just make the house out of like fucking construction paper or something like that? Why waste? Because first of all, I wouldn't stand. Construction paper. Yes, it would. Is the gingerbread house, is the gingerbread edible? No, like, the way this comes in, it's not edible. I don't think. Because the way

that it was hard and I don't think you could eat this. I don't remember. We didn't need it, point being, but I know grown white folks that have gingerbread making parties and they make houses and they get really into it and they make all these intricate, detailed, you know, houses and build all the surrounding neighborhoods and all that. I've never been to one, but like, it's a thing. Stay too clear. Maybe I have been to one. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four

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Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all. sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Interesting dialogue I saw surrounding the video of Cardi B. Cardi B went to 11 nightclub in Miami. There's some black ladies outside of the nightclub. and they were claiming that they could not get into this club

because they weren't letting black women in. I have two questions for you. First question is, if you were outside of a nightclub and some black ladies were outside of the nightclub and they were saying that they cannot get in. By the way, I won't let people know that this is a thing that happens. Oh, yeah. It's a thing that happens, especially now with, I guess always,

but especially now with the beauty standard being what it is and people are, black women are always traditionally, devalued our gorgeous beautiful sisters are but even now more with this whole Kendall Jenner Kylie Richardson whatever fucking Kardashian thing that's going on a lot of times they're looking for a specific look inside of the club and they don't let black ladies into the club

sometimes it happens but if you were outside of a club Cardi B is coming under a little bit of fire because she sees these women outside of the club they're telling her they can't get in and she doesn't make sure that they get into the club. Right. If you saw that, would you stop and make sure they got in?

Yes. You wouldn't. And I wouldn't go into the club until they could. Or if they couldn't, then we're all leaving. I really would. I was, because at first when I watched it and she was like, let them in, let them in. I was like, okay, why are we watching this? There's nothing to see here.

And she was like, let them in. They said, you're not letting black ladies in. And they're like, okay, we're going to let them in. And then she kept going. And it's like, Cardi, you know once you're out of sight, these women are never getting in the club. I was shocked that she kept going, especially when she acknowledged them.

Not that this would be better, but if she ignored them and said, oh, I didn't hear them, I didn't hear what they had to say, you know, you could make excuses for her. But she didn't do that. She acknowledged them. She said let them in,

and then she kept going. Like, she was more concerned about going inside. Have you been to 11 before? Never. Okay. Is it amazing or something? I've been to 11. I mean, you know, I used to live in Miami.

It's a 24-hour club. It's a strip club and a club. You ever see black people in there? Black women? I'm going to be honest. Well, you've been in there, so they let black women? Okay, but I'm going to be honest with you. It's like when a dude comes in with a whole bunch of guys, right?

Do they let a whole bunch of guys in? No, they want them to have women. When I went, the few times I went, I was the only black person in my group. So you know what I'm saying? I don't know if they would have let in. And I'm going to be honest again. Did I see other black people? I don't know.

By the time I make it to 11, I'm not there. I'm no longer there. Yeah, you're done. Now, also I saw, shout out to Robin down there, Ball Alerter, because Ball Alert was why I saw this clip. They were saying, a lot of people were saying, why do we as black people continue to patronize places that do not accept us or want us to come in there?

So true. So you don't think, I kind of think that's a little bit bogus. Nope, I believe that. I think that's bullshit. I'll tell you why. So everybody wants to go to 11. So we should not, okay, to me, that's very akin to, and I guess this is the kind of thing.

Like we've always wanted to be able to do whatever we wanted to do. It's not even about wanting to go to a place that you don't want to go to. It's about the fact that it is, it feels dirty, fucked up, and wrong to have your blackness preclude you from being able to do. something. Absolutely. So if someone tells you you can't do something because you're black, you are going to say that's not right. That's not fair.

Of course those ladies could have left and gone to another club that was more accepting of them, but they fucking wanted to go to 11. And if the reason why they couldn't go to 11 is because they're black, isn't that fucked up and wrong? Absolutely. It shouldn't be on them. If they want to go to 11,

they want to go to 11. I think what people were saying is once they told you you couldn't come in and you realized, oh, it's not just because we're at capacity or were, you know, whatever it may be or your address code. Once they realized it was because they're black, why are you still begging to get in? Why are you letting them know you have the money for a table? Why would you want to give this to establishment? Because at 11 during ARP, Basel, tables are five figures.

Well, she's one of the ladies said they offered to buy a table. She said her husband plays football. They offered to buy a table and they still were turned down. I know. And once you realized it was because of the color of your seat. skin, why are you still trying to get in? My thing is, why would I want to give you my 10 plus thousand for a table when you don't want me?

Why am I going to give you my money? Why are you going to benefit off me? I wouldn't even want to give you that. Let me take my 10 and go to live or whatever else is popping that night. But I agree with people. Once I realize you don't want me because of the way I look, I don't want to give you my money. Let me ask you this. Is it fair to not let somebody in the club because they're not attractive enough?

No, that's not fair. This is a very hot topic in L.A. Because people do that? I'm not saying that these, I didn't see, nobody saw these ladies. You couldn't see them in a video. Right. And I wouldn't, I would never be down for that anyway. Yeah, I know.

But the reality is that, like, is it fair to have an aesthetic standard to get into a club? Well, of course not. It's not fair. No, it's not fair. Everybody should be able to come into every single club. Where is an aesthetic? Like, where is it a statement? First of all, you can't even fucking see anybody in that club.

Well, they can see you outside. They can see you outside. But I'm telling you on the inside, y'all, it might be one of the darkest clubs I've ever been into. You can't see a thing. Well, apparently it's not that dark. You know what I'm saying? You can't see anything in 11. So I don't understand why I get it.

It's one thing. Maybe you want people in line that look a certain way because you're like, oh, these are the type of people that come in. But like as big of a club is as 11, you're going to have a decent of beautiful people there. So what? And then it's like, who's beautiful, right? Like, who's beautiful are you saying can come into this club? That's the other problem.

But like, so what? Why has everybody got to look the same in the club? I agree. I mean, the clubs, first of all, I think the clubs are like Christmas. I think it's really jumped as sharp, to be honest with you. When I used to go to the club back in Baton Rouge, shout out to club dreams. club upscale, the nightlife.

We used to go to the club out. We were going there. We'd be on the floor. You know what I mean? Music would be playing the mystical shit. And we'd be going nuts. Walk out there breaking the sweat. Everybody in there grinding on each other. It was like Black Snake Mown.

Remember that movie? Black Snake Mone where everybody's all like, it's guttural. We ended up having fun. No tables. Why would that be a table? You don't need a table because you're never sitting down. You're to dance where you're dancing. You go out and you bought new clothes just to sweat of the,

fuck up. It was a real experience. I did. I used to come out the club. Drenched and sweat. Drenched. You come out the club, drenched and sweat. Drenched in sweat. I haven't sweated in a club in so long. You used to come out to club. Drenched in sweat. Like I just, you get like

a little mini workout in that bitch. You're dancing. We're doing that electric slide. Frankie Beverly came. You go on the club now. Shout out, because some of these clubs are fun. But some of these people are fun. You go in the club now and it's a bunch of people holding drinks and looking at their phones. They don't do it. They have no idea what they were missing. I'm so old.

Yeah, we both are. I'm so old. You know who's not old, Brittany Renner. I talk about her. You wrote your eyes. It's okay. You have a... So listen.

I just don't have much to say. No, I wrote because I know what the topic is. And I actually might shock you. Okay. So Dionne Sanders brought Britney Renner. You guys know Britney Renner's a very controversial figure out there on the old Internet. He brought her to Jackson State for a football meeting. Okay?

And the meeting was basically about a lesson on game for his young football players. This is the way Dionne Sanders sees it. Shout out Coach Brown. Dionne Sanders is the coach of Jackson State football team. He looks at it as his players are going to be in situations where they're going to be trying to get the attention of young women. They're going to be DMing young women. They're going to be talking to young women. And there is apparently a correct way to do this.

And then there's a wrong way. to do this. Okay. And Dionne Sanders brought Brittany Renner in to discuss this. Now, Brittany Renner, we know, has a lot of opinions on the way men and women should talk to one another. She's a lot of people have opinions on Brittany Renner, but she's someone who's known Dionne Sanders for a while and she brought him in there.

He brought her in there to talk, to talk to the young men. Women, men in general, everybody wants something, she told the team. So even if it's like we both have our own thing going on, me still being with you is a good look because you boost my stock. She talked about them. She talked about the fact that she's dated guys in the NBA. She's dating rappers, blah, blah, blah. And she wanted to get those athletes ready for the dating pool.

Your thoughts on that? I see no problem with this. You know, I think that I feel like Texas did something like this, but didn't bring in like a Britney renter, but they had workshops on educating you on what life will be like once you leave campus, not to get caught up in certain things. And one of those classes had to deal with finances and certain things like that. And I think this goes right along with it.

There's a certain lifestyle that comes when you're an athlete, because that's who she was speaking to, football players. And so why not bring somebody who's deep in that game to educate you on the game, right? I see no problems with this. I don't even understand why this was that big of a deal. Right? Everything Brittany does is a big deal. Everything Brittany does is a big deal when it pertains to this lifestyle. If she going to talk about cooking, nobody's talking about it.

Everything that Brittany does in this lane is a big deal. And she knows that. And she flirts with it and she plays with it. That's why she'll post a picture of her on a campus and say, hide your son. She knows it. It will get the attention. She knows what her brand is.

She knows how to capture that. And good for her. But I see no problems with this. And I don't understand why everybody thought it was a big deal. This is somebody who's been in the game. game, who's played the game, who's clearly lived this lifestyle. So if you're trying to teach your players to avoid that or maybe avoid a Brittany, then why not bring somebody who knows that into your room to talk?

I don't necessarily know that she was teaching them how to avoid a Britney. How to avoid the game, right? I don't think she was teaching them how to avoid the game. I think she was teaching them how to play it. Well, I didn't get that from her talk that she was teaching them how to play game. I mean, she was basically like, everybody's going to want something from you. I'm going to want something from you because you'll boost my stock, even though I have my own thing going, being seen with you, boost my stock.

Like, was that, is that teaching you how to play the game? Or is it just telling you that, hey, girls are going to be after you, just like people are after me. You know, she was clear to let everybody know. She's got blue checks all up in her DMs from various groups, artists, your favorite NBA players. Like, I expected all that talk to be there. But I don't know if she was teaching them how to play.

I didn't hear a lesson in it. It was just more of like, this is the game. Well, so sometimes explaining the game is actually teaching somebody how to play it. Or avoid it or don't get caught up in it. Maybe that's the better word. She's just saying this is what's going on. So understand that when you go. Okay.

Do you think that they don't know that? Do you really think that those players don't know that when you go pro that girls are going to come after you? Well, more than anything, this is a publicity stunt. Let's just be real. Sure. Okay, so more than anything. Sure. Dion, but it strikes the right court, though, because it gets people.

I love Dion. I love what it strikes the right court. It gets Dion Sanders, his program. Absolutely. Deon Sanders has his finger on the pulse of what's going on. So he looks like the cool coach, the players coach. But more than anything, this is a publicity stunt. But sometimes in explaining to people what goes on,

on, you're sort of giving them a blueprint of how to do their thing. And I guess my question would be... So what does she give them to teach them to do? I think her thing is, so there's a level of dangerous thirst. Thirst can become dangerous. See, when we talk about thirst, we use it as a pejorative. But thirst can be a very dangerous thing. Thirst is blinding.

That's why thirst is so bad. Thirst blind you. It blinds you to the red flag. that are in front of your face is for anyone, right? Thirsts, you're thirsty for something, and there's something right in front of you and say, this is bad, this is bad, but you're so thirsty. It's like actually being thirsty, okay?

Okay. Think about it. Yes. If you're actually thirsty, you're parched, right? What might you do for the water? Correct. You're crawling through the desert? So doesn't that mean that she's teaching them how not to be so thirsty

or look out for the signs? I think she's teaching them how to avoid it. No, she's not teaching. She can't teach them how to avoid the thirst because that's impossible. Okay, to watch out for it? No, she's teaching them about how to better curate the red flags and put them together. I didn't gather that from the clips I saw. I did.

Of course you did. You can't tell them not to be thirsty. Telling a 19, 20-year-old boy not to be thirsty. You're not listening. I didn't say you don't do this. I said she's teaching you to be aware of what it is to avoid or maybe recognize somebody like herself who's been in the game before. Like herself who's been in the game.

Yeah, like herself. I mean, again, I had no problems with this. I didn't even see why this was that big of a deal. I think it's great she's going to talk to young people. I think people here at higher learning expected this to be a bigger deal with you because of some of your past opinions on Brittany Redder. I stand by everything I've ever said about it.

So what, like you're teaching people how to avoid a lifestyle or whatever word you want to use. You're talking about a lifestyle that you lived. Why do I have a problem with that? My opinion is that she lived that lifestyle. My opinion is that she's part of that world. I still stand by that. Now she's talking to a group of men about that world.

What better expert to talk about it than the woman who's been entrenched in it? Entrenched in it. You like these verbs? You're doing your thing. Look, this is what I think. You know, I think highly of Brittany. I think that Brittany has a lot to offer people in terms of all of this stuff. Never denied it.

I personally think, but I think more of that, this should go on. I'm so forward. Why do you think that Dion Sanders brought her? Because she's an expert in that field, in that lane, in that world. What's that field? The game. That's all I'm going to say, because that's what he called it.

I'm not going to put any kind of implications on it past that. She's an expert in it. That's why she came to talk, right? That's why he brought her. I don't think anybody can deny that. So I don't understand why everybody thought it was going to be that big of a deal. Why are conversations about, male-female dynamics.

So explosive. Why can't we just talk about these things? Because for so long, you couldn't. It's interesting. One of the movies I saw this weekend for work was Being the Ricardo's. And... What fuck is that?

Your face. It's based on Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz. And I'm a big Lucille Ball fan. It was one of the few shows. I could watch growing up. And so I really love, I love Lucy. But this tells the behind-the-scenes story. of how they met and how the show got made.

And it really talks about a big portion of a week in her life because she was accused to being a communist because she checked the box. So it deals with all of that. Anyways, she gets pregnant. And she's announcing that to the higher-ups of CBS. And they're so against her talking about the pregnancy through the show.

They're like, the beds aren't even together. They're like, well, we're going to put the beds together. You can't do that. You can't tell people you're pregnant. She wasn't even allowed to use the word pregnant. When they finally agreed that she could say that she's having a baby, she can never say pregnant. So it's been so long, it's been entrenched so long in our culture that you can't talk about certain things. And so I think that's why it still gets contentious when you talk about the male and female dynamic.

Because for so long it was like men play this role, women play this role. And when women start doing things that have been assigned to what a man is, supposed to do, then people start talking. Because sometimes people can't get out of their heads of women can't do that. That's for men. Men can't do that. That's for women. Do you believe in gender roles? No. Do you don't believe in any gender roles?

No, but I do like for Brian to take the trash out of night. Right. I don't believe in gender roles either. And sometimes I wonder if that's the right way to look at things. To not believe in gender roles? I don't believe in gender roles. I think that people are trying to move towards that. But I think that still some things are ingrained in us.

I don't believe in them either, but I don't want to go out at night and take out the trash. Do you see what I'm saying? But I'm assigning a role to it. I'm being hypocritical. So I like to ask questions to, like, really probe how much people don't believe in general. Let me ask you a question. Trudy, you can jump in here too. Let's say you're going out to dinner with a man, right?

Let's say you weren't in any way. you know, you weren't married. So it's a date? It's a date. Okay. First date? Let's say it's a first date. Okay.

Let's say it's a first date. Trudy, it's a first date. It's a first date you guys are going to Ruth's Chris. Because he likes Ruth's Chris. Okay. And if we're being honest with ourselves, say it again. Ruth's Chris.

Ruth Chris. Is it Ruth Chris? No, I think it's Ruth's. There is an apostrophe yes somewhere in there. I think there's a Ruth's. I think it's Ruth's Chris. So Ruth Chris. Ruth's Chris, so you're going to Ruth's Chris.

Because if we're being honest... It's good. It's okay, I know. If we're being honest... I've seen one of those in a long time. If we're being honest. Seriously, being honest. Okay.

All your fancy steakhouses that exist in your town, there's no place in your town that makes a better state than Ruth's Chris. In Dallas? Oh, you've never been in Nick and Sam's. And if you're from... Did not put you on the Fuel City? All right.

Fuck Nick and Sam. Nick and Sam's, that's the best steakhouse in Dallas. Nick and Sam ain't got that butter like Ruth's Chris got... Anyway, so he's taking you to Ruth's Chris. You guys have a fun time. Whatever. At the end of the Ruth's Chris date, the check comes.

He pays the check with a gift card. I wasn't ready for that. I'm okay with that. I'm okay. He pays the check with a gift card. With a gift card. He's got a Ruth's Chris gift card. You don't even ask him why.

Did he pick the restaurant? Did he pick Ruth Chris? Yeah, he picked it. He picked it because he had a gift card there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He pays a check with a gift card. gift knife. If he's smart, he slipped a gift card in where you couldn't see it, but he wasn't. He paid the check with the gift card. Do you have an issue with it?

Not at all. Trudy. You do. Trudy. Be honest. Trudy, Trudy. Be honest. But what's the problem? Trudy, Trudy, be honest. Be honest. I'm not. Okay, go ahead and pay it. It's not going to upset me, but I will say it's going to end up in the group chat when I get in the car. Exactly. But would you go on a second date. I would go on a second date. Okay, that's all that matters. At this point, I'm, what do you do? Are we financially stable? Do you have a roommate? Because I can't date guys that are over 30 that have roommates. Okay. But you know what? You get those questions. Hold on for a second.

You got you got you got to be a man. You can't date a guy over 30 with a roommate even in LA? That's strange. I don't know. I just feel like it's strange. You know why? Because you live on your own. That's exactly what she lives on her. I feel like I'm getting it so I need you to get it to. Wow. So so so so so so here's the thing though. Here's the thing. If the, if the tables were reversed, right? And the woman goes, I'm going to get this. I'm going to get dinner. First day, I asked you out of whatever, and she pays

with a gift card, there is not even a second thought. I was like, oh shit, let me see that bitch. You got a gift card. That's smart. I like that type of shit. There's not even same. It is only an issue with the gift card being you pay for the dinner if it is the man

that uses the gift card. And that's because that's because, even with Trudy, that's because there's an inherent belief that men should be breadwinners. Okay. There's an inherent belief that men should be brand winners. That actually is, I think that really is, especially for black women, that is not true about that men have to be the breadwinners. That's actually not true.

And I just want to say something. Broke boys don't deserve no pussy. I know that's right. Okay. Like, oh, you love that part. Trudy, look at Trudy. Trudy loves that part of the song. But, but, but, truth.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you say Trudy? Please tell me you got Trudy. Trudy loves that part of us all. She loves that part of the same. It said broke. I didn't say you got to be the breadwinner. I don't want you to be broke.

You got to bring something to the table. Can you pay your bills? That is a real thing. I just want to say something about the gift card, though. I am totally okay with the gift card. But on the second date, if you bring out a gift card again. Again. What if this man got a couple gift cards?

What if he got a couple gift cards? What if he takes the second time? like the second time you're about to go out, he's like, hey, man, I want to take you on a, I want to take you on a special drive, you know, out to Burbank. Like, why? Because, you know, I want to go to the Olive Garden out there in Burbank. Like, there's not another. And it's Olive Garden on my face.

Okay. So, Cass, your question, why does the-Uth? Ruth Chris has three S's. Okay, three-dollar signs is what I should say. Right. Next to it. Maybe four. Three, three for sure.

Olive Garden has one. Right. You don't need a gift card. You might. But by the way, first. First of all, it's not what- It's not about whether or not you need the gift card. It's about the fact if you have the gift card, can you use it on a game?

Second, you get a pass first time. The second time, absolutely not. When did this thing you got a couple of gift cards? Because you know one of the questions I ask, and I ask this in the fantasy suite, what's your credit score? I asked that. But that's different, though, because you're about to marry these guys. Okay. So you're about to get married.

You're about to get married. So before you get married to someone, of course you were one of the credit score. Like, it's a red flag. Ladies, listen to me. You got to recognize the red flags. Okay? And it is a red flag if the second time he pays with a gift card. Do you not have cash on hand?

Are your credit cards maxed out? Do you have a credit card? Like, these are real questions. Like, you know what I would do? If he did it a second time, I'd say three times a charm. Let me pick the restaurant this time. Right. Because I'm going to pick a place you don't have a gift card to.

Right. Like Nick and Sam's a situation. Now then if he pulls out like a Visa, $100 gift card. We got it done. Well, what? Okay. All right. So let me ask you another question then.

Just real quick, because we're on a tangent here, so we might as well stay on it. I've never done it. So when I was getting ready to go on my first date, my late father, he said, I think we've talked about this podcast before. He goes, hey, you always want to exude confidence and security when a woman is around you always, right? So he's like, I might, I've been charged for so many extra shits probably on bills because I never look at the check, right? He's like, don't look at the check. He's like, don't study it. Don't do any of that. He was like, you know around about what it is. Put the money in, put the card in, let the guy go. Don't look at the check. He's like, as a matter of fact, he gave me this

little move. He's like, when, he's like, make sure a conversation is going when the check comes. So when you're, when you're paying the check, make eye contact with the woman that you're sitting across from. It's not a big deal. Whatever happens. Because she is watching. Yeah. Whatever happens, you got her. So look directly in her eyes and talk to her, laugh with her, whatever drink. Hey, give it to him.

Talk to the man about the money. Don't talk to the woman about the money until, you know, whatever, whatever. Now, that's because that's an attractive trait in a man to be able to handle that, right? That's based on a gender role. The fact that that is is based on a gender role. that is based on a general. Like a man can take care of it. A man can take care of himself,

but also that he can take care of you. Because I can tell you one thing, if a guy asks you guys out, right? And then he asks you to bust the check down, you're not fucking with him. Like split it? Yeah. On the first day?

Honestly, I would give you a pass. But I would give you a pass. I'm not going to immediately eliminate you because you really might be frugal. And that might be something that we got to work on in the relationship. Brian is a person who looks at the check when it comes. I noticed that from the beginning. He looks at it and makes sure that he was charged for everything correctly.

I don't like it. And we're married. I don't like it. You know what I mean? Like we share our finances. Right. I don't like it. But see, this is what-

That would be so funny, Brian, like, yo, man, I didn't get these fucking mashed potatoes. Like, I don't know what the fuck she's doing. But this is why context is good because he always said his mom told him to do that. And I noticed that when we go out, the mom will look at the bill too. And she checks everything. So I'm like, okay, it's been ingrained in him that that's what you're supposed to do. It's not that big of a deal. Question.

Is there anything that a man has to do? Take out the trash at night. Is there anything that a woman has to do? Have a baby. You can't say that. A woman doesn't have to have a baby. I'm saying it because men can't. I know.

That's really what I'm saying. If a woman decides she doesn't want to have kids. I'm a person who gets. talked about all the time for not having children yet. I'm not saying it in that way. I'm more so making a joke because men can't have it, is what I'm saying. So I'm just saying the gender roles thing is an interesting conversation. We got out of the, Trudy has so many, the Trudy is a traditional.

I want to be in the group chat. Trudy's a traditionalist. I want to be in the group chat. Oh, they get tore up. I like to vicariously live with my friends who get to date. What do men get tore up in a group chat about, Rudy? Oh, my God. I mean, for one, just weird-ass first date situations.

Yeah, it's a no. Like, if you pulled out a coupie. coupon, I'm, I maybe might give you a second. And it really, your personality would have to shine through, would have to really carry you to that second date. But then in that second date, it's make or break. Like, you're going to have to really make me think that there potentially maybe might be a future with you. What do you mean coupon? Like, a piece of paper cut out of the newspaper?

See, that, that, that's, to me, there's nothing wrong with that. But can I just say, but can I just say, if you, I just need to know that you can afford where we're eating. That's really first and foremost. And secondly, you don't necessarily have to have a first date be a dinner plan. The best day I ever went on in my whole entire life was when I was living in D.C. It was my boyfriend at the time. But he took me to Grappley Park and you watched airplanes like land and take off because he knows I love airplanes.

And it was so cute and so simple. And still is the best day I've ever been on. That nigga got so much game. Bro. And he was like, bro. That's how a bachelor day. And a nigga, and he was on the phone like his homies like, bro, I'm not going to lie, bro. I just spent zero dollars money.

But he's like, bro, like, y'all taking girls. Like, y'all stupid. You took a girl to a basketball game, bro. I legitimately took Trudy to the park. And we watched planes take off. And she was on it, dog. She was on it. Because it was an experience.

You know what? You know, I'm taking it tomorrow? Tomorrow I'm taking it to the bus station. And we're just going to watch people get on the bus. Man, give ladies an experience. Exactly. It's so much more meaningful. And it showed he paid attention.

to our conversations and the things that I like. It was great. It was great. But that's also the same guy that used to spend like $500 on a date for me. So, you know, and find me out, girl, yeah, it was, that was, and then he became my boyfriend. I felt like, dad instilled it in me.

I spent money. He comes down there. Hey, this Porterhouse for $2, $175. I got it. Bring it out. Big Daddy got the Porter House. You know what I'm saying? Bring it.

I don't give off. You're not about to look at me like one of these broke niggas. If not, we don't, if I don't have the money, I won't go out. I want to talk about else you got a new football coach, Brian Kelly. What do you think? Apparently, he's a fraud. How's he a fraud? He switched up his whole speech when he landed there in Baton Rouge.

That's not concerning, alarming to you? Not at all. Why is he trying to imitate the way he thinks y'all talk? Can you tell you something? I want to tell the whole night. National media this. Is this my camera right here? Is this my camera right here?

Get off Brian Kelly's dick. He's not Coach out. Get off his nutsack. Let me tell you what happened with Brian Kelly. What happened? This is what happened with Brian Kelly. Brian Kelly, he landed in Louisiana. And as soon as you land, right?

This is what happens to you. See this right here? This is the Cajun shakes. You get the shakes. As soon as Brian Kelly got on. the plane he was like hi it's me coach Kelly ha ha ha ha run the Notre Dame offense and Cincinnati

but when he landed he was like hoa hey gotta go yeah I need some jumble live some gumbo you know he felt it in his soul and then he hit the campus right he hit the campus of LSU when he hit the campus he's looking around he's like oh my god he sees all these people there

is LSU and then Twang came out the twang came out telling you right now Brian Kelly is about to have a cultural awakening in Baton Rouge like he's never had before what they need to do is the national media and everybody around it

stay out of LSU business we don't get in y'all business y'all had alcoholic coaches y'all had coaches get fired on the tarmac y'all have coaches that's fucking the girls that work in the fucking athletic department not that we kind of didn't have that too

y'all have had all kinds of shit going on with your coaches we stay out of this shit with your coaches all kinds of coaches your coach has been through some stuff which one sarcesian he's had his own trials and tribulations I'm proud of him. I'm proud of him. I'm proud of him.

He's come back. Leave our coaches alone. Because he has a black woman by his side. Does he? Yes. Sark is married to a black woman? She's Delts, Sigma Theta, a sorority incorporated. No, I'm not.

Sark is married to a date. I got to see her. I follow her on Instagram. Let me see. Because I might start a room for Texas. She's fabulous. I might start a room for Texas. Hold on.

Sarkeesian. Steve Sarkeesian. Right here. Oh, my God. She's fabulous. Loreal Sarkeesian. Damn, Sark That nid Sark not playing

You straighten him out I'm not gonna lie man I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie I fuck with Sark I'm gonna like I fuck I can't believe you didn't know that then I did not know this

I fuck I fuck with Sark Look at Sark Look at Sark Look at Sark And then she This is a sister Loreale Sarkeesian

Look at her I think she ran track Where at Texas? No. No, no, no. Maybe somewhere else. But proud member of Delta Sigma Theta. No, I fuck with Sarke.

Look at this. She's a picture with Vince Young. Vince Young got sweat all over his T-shirt. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Vince Young. Things happen, man. Oh, look, I fuck with Sarke. But I'm saying, like, get all about coaches' business.

It should be known that Brian Kelly has never coached or lived in the South. Just in case you're wondering, maybe, you know, he brought back a childhood twang or something. No. Why is everybody? On LSU's nutsacks. It's just weird. You know, he gets there and he's like, I'm excited to be here with the family.

Where did that come from? He's excited. He's excited. Do you say excited like that? No, I don't have an accent, though. He's impersonating what he thinks people from Louisiana. It's just weird. It's just weird.

Okay, guys, we have to talk about something that went on on an Amazon Prime show called Harlem. There was a bar shop scene on the show that a lot of black men some black men thought was disrespectful to black barbershop culture and painted black men in a very savage and unfair light. I talked about this on my Instagram and on my Twitter. And I had some conversations with some very smart people. One of those smart people is going to come on the podcast right now.

His name is Michael Arsena. He is an author and a cultural critic and commentator. He pulled my coat on this. He pulled my code on this and we had a really good conversation. He had good conversations with a couple of people. Shout out to Jamel. Jamila and Mew too about this entire situation. But I want you guys to hear the conversation

because within the black community, within communities period, there are also separate factions and groups that need to be able to talk and have more open dialogue with one another. And I learned a lot talking to Michael and I learned a lot talking to you guys every day. So let's go ahead and get to that conversation right now.

Okay. I, for right now, have been kicked out of all woke circles. I lost my woke card yesterday. a homie of mine pulled my coat on something that I said on Twitter I think that it's best that we have a discussion about it

this is an amazing person he is a New York Times bestselling author as I understand it yes yes he definitely is yes he's a New York Times bestselling an author like if you guys have some time you want to sit down and read

an amazing book called I don't want to die for by Michael Arsena. He was kind enough to send me a copy. I read it. It is absolutely fantastic. But even more than that, he is a cultural commentator, a critic, and someone who I went back and forth

about this particular scene from a show called Harlem. Now, Harlem is a show that's on Amazon Prime right now. Brand new. Brand new show. Brand new show. Written by Tracy Oliver. I think Malcolm D. Lee is involved. It's about 4.30-something black ladies in Harlem doing it.

Doing their thing. There's one particular scene, and rather than us describe the scene, what I'm going to do right now is have Donnie drop the audio into it right now so everyone can listen to the scene. I'm telling you, he's holes.

Bust it wide open for a six-piece nugget. No fries. Yo, you're going to handle this? He's new. You know, no rules. Yo, and, chill. You got a lady person. the election try so hard to look like a dude. Rob shops in safe space.

You're not using the term safe space correctly, dumbass. Yeah, well, she just laying there all nut and all this shit. Joe, CJ, please get your boy. Todd, what can I do? Add family. I've been coming there for years. We've been, but me and Anna family. You're my mom's sister's the son's nephew.

He cuss and stopped. So anyway, I'm about the titty fuck the hole, right? And then suddenly I realized shortly got one titty bigger than the other. Fuck this. Fuck this. I'm talking about. Okay. Okay. Now, there was a post that went around that talked about how that particular scene was portraying black men.

If you notice right there, they're very aggressive to the woman that is getting her haircut. And there seems to be no one there who is standing in the gap for her as this is going on. She is a black queer lady and she is being antagonized by this barber who is being outwardly aggressive towards her. I was mad. I was mad, Michael. I said that this doesn't happen in barbershops that I haven't seen it happened. I thought that it painted black men and the black barbershop experience in an unfair light. And me and you went back and forth.

Tell me where I'm wrong and what I'm missing. But Michael, he was more than mad, right? Because you took time to post it and then write a full caption on it. That was on Instagram. On Instagram, which took me by surprise. That's more than mad. You were passionate about it. You had all caps on some of your words.

Like there was meaning behind that. So Michael, yes, please, please. I'm already team Michael the fact that he was calling you out. Tell us, tell us what this conversation entailed and what you guys went back and forth about. It was so funny. I wasn't mad. I just was actually smoking Ceteo and just kind of get through it.

You know, that's a plague. I try to chill out. But that said, thank you both for us for having me. You were wrong. Yeah, respectfully, it was kind of the. equivalent of what white liberals or white people do in general where, and I don't, I know that sounds harsh, but hear me out, it's that just because something that maybe you would have done in that moment or where you have been, you're basing your singular experience while other

people are trying to say like this could, your, your experience doesn't negate anybody else's shared experience. And while I understand wanting to have, like, we were going back and forth, like you were either the image of the black barbershop, respectfully, I think the black barbershop has a pretty pristine image collectively. I think what we're going to be. we don't have is that real honest conversation about how those spaces might feel for people like me. I wrote about it. And let me just go out the way because it's Christmas. My books.

I can't. I can't. But then I can't. I'm a hug. You know, I got to go. But then I can't day Jesus. I write about my own experience, which I told you about.

And I mean, it doesn't even matter about my anecdotal experience. But just that said, when someone is telling you from a group that would not feel the way you would in that space, I think it's always better to listen rather than sometimes react and also not negate somebody else's comments by saying what you would have done in that moment when so many people in real time were trying to tell you actually might happen this way. Now, I did give you like, not credit, but just, I end up going back and watched episode in full. I was saying, I said it's respectfully because I'm a big fan of like the creators behind it. But I can see how maybe some of the dialogue, and I did acknowledge that even from that scene. I was like, I don't know if they might have exactly went like that. But in the crux of the scene, if you're talking about can a woman feel uncomfortable in a barbershop, of course she can.

Can a queer person feel uncomfortable in a barbershop more or less like that? Of course they can. So many people tell you in that moment, I was telling you in that moment. I have a very specific example about when I was in college, people were talking about how a bunch of gay men, basically gay black men, you know, like a depressing of the waste, the waste of a dick. they should be raped in prison, they should be killed. I'm in the middle of the fate, what I'm going to do? But the thing is, I think sometimes when you talk about these spaces, like, can I curse? I don't know.

Yeah, please. Okay, so I'm very much a nigga. I'm just saying it very colloquially. So I know, like, in those places, how people can talk. And sometimes you got to pick and choose your battles, but the reality is like, you go in those spaces, there ain't a place in this country. I ain't been where the black barbershop might be good for you or even good for a lot of other gay black men I know, but it might not be for me.

It might not be for me. It might not be for somebody else based on how they present. And respectfully, men in general, if men really, in mass, say, called out misogyny, homophobia, queer antagonism, all that type of stuff, then most of the stuff that we talk about women and queer people complain about wouldn't be so common. There's a lot of men don't do anything. And even if you are a better man than that, and you've been in places that are more progressive than that, that doesn't mean that that's not as common as you think. And I think one thing that I will say about that I appreciate, and, you know, I'll just say in my own TV development journey,

I think it's really important also for black queer people to have greater voices and for them not to be silent. Because I don't think most people understand that most of the people when they think about queerness, I get that they associate with white people and the rainbow and all the stuff. The reality is mostly black people in the South. Most queer parents are poor black lesbians in the South. Most people who have self-identified as queer or gay, whatever, have been people like me. And that's 2012, more than white people. Yet you see only these certain images.

So again, I think when you see even like a molecule of like criticism receive it. because while I understand why other people are looking, I don't really care why people think. White people don't think whatever they want. I think not to get too grand, but if the whole thing about, like, excellent products and the Cosmies and Obamas, all that stuff has happened and look how they look at us.

It's just what it is. I think that's something to be sad about when Black were talking to each other to really listen. And that's the only perspective that I was trying to say. I think, again, you wouldn't do that. You've reached out to me. You helped me promote my book. I understand that you, you know, aren't like that.

But again, your experience is not everybody else's. My experience isn't everybody else's. But I will say in those instances, it was too many people kind of being like, actually, actually, actually. And I think that was a moment in general, just a lesson for some, we all have to just kind of sit back and be like, you know what, maybe I need to kind of reassess. Again, the dialogue might have been a little off. I'll chop my head off people. I know I'm trying to cross over. But yeah, I think the crux was legit because I have experienced that myself and I know so many people that have.

Okay. So I'm going to give you guys an example. First of all, all very well said. and obviously you speak with a great life experience. But I'm giving an example of a similar scene that, not a similar scene, but a different scene that I had a problem with it, I'll tell you why.

So you guys remember in Atlanta, right? There's a scene in Atlanta where they're at a party, like it's like the episode where they're going to the party and they're going to like Drake's party. And there is a black woman, and she's in that scene with a white lady. Michael, you're smiling. You remember this scene.

Do you not? I think I know what we're going, but I'm going to let you. Right. So listen, so there's a black woman. She's in the scene with the white lady, right? And the white lady in the scene is with a black man. All right. She's with a black man.

The black woman in that scene is super upset about it, right? She comes across aggressive, feral, emotionally distraught, and unhinged. And she attacks the white lady. Like physically? No. She attacks her. verbally, the white lady comes back and very coolly dismisses her. Hey, this is how you feel.

This is what you think. But this is the reality. This is what's happening here. This is what you don't know. This is the thing. I looked at that and I'm like, that is completely unfair. Is it impossible that that would happen? No.

Like, not at all. We know the way some sisters feel about black men dating white women. We know that, but I don't feel like that scene got to the point to where there was any understanding of why she felt that way, where there was any contextualization about what was actually happening. The scene made a very pointed criticism without anything out the other side. And it shocked me how a black man could write that about a black woman and just let that scene breathe. And to be honest with you, it's never been reconciled. It's never been reconciled. And I looked at that.

I'm like, yo, well, as black ladies, y'all don't have a problem with the fact that he's making, because I know plenty of black women who don't care about that, number one. And the ones that I do know that care about it, if they addressed it, they would not have addressed it in that way and not with any teaching whatsoever. I thought it was a poor representation.

So I said, okay, in my opinion, let's talk about as a culture and a community, how something like that would actually go. And if you want to, if you want to lay that up there, I feel like you have to give sisters their say. Now, that's not to take away from any poor white woman who's been accosted by a black lady or any black man that's Rachel. Rachel knows. Rachel's in the interracial. She's in the IR club. She's in the IRA section on poor her. But that's like, but that's not to take away from anybody's experience because you'll hear from people that say I go through that all the time. I just didn't feel like it was fair to black women. And in this particular scene, it's not.

not necessarily that I wanted to step on anybody's experience. I wanted to have the conversation because I do think that there is a point for me particularly as it's reflex to me

as a black man to fight against the portrayal of black men as mindless, savage killers. And people, and in the scene that we're talking about, The guy is not talking about something in a very, uh, a matter-of-fact way. It's not just a conversation in the barbershop.

He's trying to fuck with her. Like, he glances at her. He's attacking her. And everybody in the shop is just like, they're good with that. And I'm just going to be honest with you. I've never been in the barbershop where someone is getting attacked for any reason and it's getting to that level and everybody else just lets it slide. even if it's two men, after a while,

all right, leave him alone now. Like, even if it's just to maintain peace inside the shop. And look, if I'm wrong, I'll wear the big, I'll wear the capital W. I don't want to take away from anybody's experience. But I also, there is a feeling from me that like we just get kicked out of nothing

and we're not supposed to say nothing. Like, you know what I mean? The only way I would feel that way is the, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Michael. You're the guest. Go ahead. No, no, this y'all show. Go. No, no, Mike, go ahead. Go ahead. Say what you're going to say. Okay, because a few things. I'll say about the Atlanta thing.

I like the show, but actually, Tyne Harle of, and this is the part why I'm the critic to our credit and I'm trying to tow that line. I'll just say this. I think certain black shows or certain shows in general in that way, that's a very specific experience that they were trying to write to. That probably does not really appeal to, like, the common black women's experience. And when I say common just like predominant, because the reality is most people in this country don't, the races really don't mix. TV doesn't really reflect the fact that black people, white, very large and segregated by design and even the most metropolis of cities. And so most black people, women are not even thinking about that. They're just thinking about themselves. So I understand that.

I think that's fixed to a very specific experience. And I think sometimes respectfully, some of the shows, I think some of the critique is, some of these shows, I think they all have a right to exist and provide entertainment. But like maybe, I'll just say this. I lived in Harlem for seven years. I'm glad this show exists. I'm glad the other show. Run the world. Run the world exists.

Forgive me, called upon a Beyonce lyrics. But I think in the same way, I would say, like, when I live in Harlem, I'm aware that half of black men have not had jobs the whole time. I'm aware of, like, right behind the whole who's, like, a methadone clinic. It's a certain lens that I think maybe certain people would think about in their thing.

Maybe I'm going to left, but I'm just trying to say, that dialogue didn't really match for me. reflect reality in either instance, so I get that. But I think, whereas that example is probably less common, I would think the queer one is more common, but you're not, you wouldn't be informed enough to know because you would never be put in that position. You would never be in a situation

when you have to think about that as a straight black man. You just wouldn't. So in the same way, maybe the dialogue wouldn't go exactly the way that guy was going off, because I would admit, when I watched it and when I watched an episode, I thought, I don't think it would go exactly like that, but would some do be really crude and sexist as fuck Would he say something like that to a traditionally masculine presenting women?

I was going to say stuff as 8-0 in Southern. But yeah, like that wouldn't react. They would, I don't think it would happen exactly that way. Would a man troll a woman like that in that position in a barbershop? Absolutely. I've seen that happen in real time because some straight men do not like women who present that way. And that is how they talk to them. Generally speaking, men can be really crass, can be really sexist.

I've seen men harassed mothers that come into the shop. Sometimes people will say something. A lot of times people will not. In the same way, so many videos on Twitter you can see every day, men do not step in. I mean, even in New York, how many times you've seen a stranger I've walked up to just to end up talking to her because some man harassing her. There's a bunch of straight men right there not doing anything. I think sometimes you have to, again, this is where you have to take yourself out of the situation and kind of maybe pull. I get the Atlanta thing.

I think that's a very limited experience. I get that even in this dialogue. It don't really connect with how maybe most of us would think. But again, I think just in this instance, yeah, it's actually more common than you think. And again, most of the representations of the black barbershop are usually nice. They're like them franchises about it. We actually don't really talk about the fact that like, and it's a thing. A lot of queer people, women, we want to also hold black people accountable.

We also have to do with the fact that people are really racist and are hard on black men. But at the same time, when do we hold straight black men accountable for the fact that like most of the people who terrorize you are the people closest proximity to you? And for us, that is mostly straight black men. And that was an example, no matter how people would have. like how they, exactly how it rolled out. But it is, it does, again, speak to a real experience. And I think even if not handled exactly how might have really happened, no, it was, again, if I'm telling, other people tell you, like, you have, I think that's a sign of like, wait, maybe I need to reassess. I'll give you the W because I think you are room on this,

but I got the Atlanta example. I just think sometimes because there are so few black shows, and I don't think most people understand how hard it is to even be in media entertainment and the sacrifices that you can get so most people can't even afford to have, these awful kind of like subtle but nuanced depicting the black life trying to do what i mean um but i just think that scene yeah i'm gonna shut up now because i got to you know i what i what struck me when you made that post and how passionate you were is that you were trying to speak to your particular experience being in barbershops across the nation and almost as if you were trying to protect what you have known barbershops to be what has been your experience so i think it caught me off guard

because at the same time, you weren't trying to understand that there could be or entertain another side or another experience. I know you said that you posted it because you were opening it up to conversation, but the post didn't come off like that.

And you weren't alone. I was shocked. There were a lot of people on Twitter who agreed with you, who agreed with what you had to say. But I think that the same way you were trying to protect your experience and what you know of the barbershops,

I think that that scene allowed people who have been through that to protect their experience and speak out in a way that they never have really had represented before on a TV show or whatever it may be. Did you see Tracy Oliver's response to this? I did not. Okay, so Tracy wrote, because this was going on, you know, it's trending. She said, deaf not making a statement about all barbershops because there is no singular black experience. This scene was based on personal experiences shared by black queer writers who've experienced homophobic slash uncomfortable.

talk in barbershops. Your truth and there should both be validated. And I think that pretty much sums it up. I do. I do. And I agree. So I'll, this is,

this is, so this is what I'd say to that. Number one, I'll wear the W. I'll wear the W. And just to be clear, that doesn't mean when. Okay?

Well, that's wrong. You never know. I just want to be clear. But what, but I, but I, this is what I'll say.

And shout out to Jamela Lemieux because me and her went back and forth this morning on this. And I've really enjoyed the dialogue, right? Because I think it's a very important dialogue to have, right? I remember, like, we did a short film. We put the short film out. And there was various criticisms of the short film. Various criticisms.

Some people liked it. Some people thought it was trauma porn for white people. And you take all those criticisms when you make something. but you hope that you start a conversation about what is the correct way to depict black people, how you depict black people, and what is the, there's no correct way, like what makes sense and what doesn't, you know what I mean? So like even Trayvon, Trayvon Free, who is my partner in Six Feet Over, who is a producer on this show that we're talking about, the show that we're talking about.

So me and him have yet to talk about it, I'm sure he's thrilled. about the post. But I point to you like this, and this is where, I guess, I'm going to acquiesce. I'm going to acquiesce to the fact that I probably am coming off as overprotective of my brothers. I am. Two reasons.

One is I hate the divisions that exist inside of the black community. Sure. When I say that I understand that they're there. I completely understand that they're there. And in order to undo them, we're going to have to look at the community in a more holistic way. Like, I criticize Bussey on Vlad, people telling me not to come back to Baton Rouge for Christmas.

You know what I mean? So, like, it's not, I'm going back to Baton Rouge for Christmas. It's going to be fine. But, but what I'm like, braids. You know what I'm saying? But, but, but I guess what I'm trying to say is this. I hope to get to a point to where there is a mending of sort of these ideas, not just in what we're putting out, but also in intention. you.

I've been in rooms before while I've heard black ladies specifically was in a room where I heard four black ladies talk about

how to drain men that were new to L.A. Like how Michael's like like how to how to drain men that were new to L.A. You know?

I've I personally would never ever, ever, ever commit that scene to film. even though if you live in Los Angeles long enough,

if you live in Los Angeles long enough, you meet all kinds of people and you meet, there's a culture here that goes about propagate if you live in Atlanta, if you live in Miami. There are certain ways that I want black women to be seen. And I think more than anything, I was guarded against that.

I'm like, well, you guys don't care how we're depicted. But if the answer is, depicting us in a certain way makes it to where we have conversations about the way we act and carry on. I get it.

I guess I was like, the cultural critic in me, as someone who I've spent more years or just as many defending black people against the charge that we're more homophobic than anyone else, which is literally not true against other black people too. But at the same time, when is there a space when I can talk about that,

the real homophobia that exists within the black community. Right here. Michael. No, but thank you, but like, honestly, like, I usually have to think more about stuff like the image and how protecting, but at a certain point, it's like people are going to think what they want. You kind of just have to think, what is your actual concern is. My actual concern about actually being better within our community. So there actually has to be spaces to talk. But I will say, and I can see, I do think part of that, but part of that frustration, I will say, I don't like typically still how working class black people are depicted in television. It is pretty much to me more time tropey and offensive. and that does include how black men are depicted. I do think there is a real frustration about how most of black people actually live in America and what we see on TV. If you look on TV, most people are rich.

I literally wrote about TV's working class black crime like more than a decade ago. So I'm aware of like the images of black people have a long way to go. But I think at the same time, even about me as a black gay man, I don't like, I mean, it's not I don't like. I've had to accept what images do exist now, honor them, and appreciate them and while to push for my own. but also see that everyone needs space to be who they are and have a voice to be able to say what they say. So I appreciate the dialogue and even letting me, you know, have the space to say something.

But I just want to stress, I think there has to come a point with black people where you have to be honest about the fact that how we do hurt each other and the most vulnerable among us, even those who have even a little bit of mildly power, which would be straight black men and how they hurt women and queer people in those spaces. There has to be more of an honest space to talk about.

that independent of what other people will think. Because again, that will think what they want. We need to talk to each other. Absolutely. And give us great to have that. Absolutely. So that's true. I got last thing I'll say is I floored this to George Johnson.

I think this is a great idea. I call it the Alliance. Okay. This is what I want to do. I'm serious. I want a black straight male, black gay male, Alliance organization

that's built that's built on learning understanding trust and putting out a new face to the community we're together you know what I mean we're together

education all kinds of things you know what I mean you should lead it it's going to be me it's going to start with me Mike and Boosie wow you got some work to do I mean I told you

I think I yeah I mean I used to dance to Bussey in the gate club, you know, he went too far. I feel like back in the day, I never knew Bousie was like that. Maybe I wasn't listening to what he had to say. All I heard was Bucie in the gay clubs. I remember when the Ratchett was an actual dance before people abused the word. Like, I had a picture of Bucci.

He hurt me. He hurt. He hurt. He said, yeah. It's bad. Mike, seriously, I appreciate the Thank you for having me. Pulling my coat, man.

I appreciate the dialogue and the conversation. Anytime. Anytime, Mike. Thank you. Nice to meet you formally, Texas. Same to meet you, too. Nice to meet you. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech.

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That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Okay. So there's been an arrest in the murder of Jacqueline Avon. Ariel Maynor of Baton Rouge of Los Angeles is charged with one count, each of murder, attempted murder, and felony with a firearm.

Jacqueline Avant was 81 years old and she was shot allegedly by this person has been charged with this now if anybody has been paying attention there have been a rash of crimes, some violent, most of them violent that has been taking place in the Los Angeles area

around people who are stealing and robbing and doing all kinds of stuff And a lot of times we talk about these things like, oh man, be careful out here in LA, be careful out here in LA. But, you know, this one was killed. And it's very, very sad. We always talk about justice in situations like this. Obviously, you want to see people get there, come up,

and when they do things, they're this horrible. But I don't know. I look at this. It's just hard. It's a hard situation. my prayers go out to Clarence and his family to have been married

to someone for that long and then to have her life taking over basically nothing. It's just wild to me. And everything that's going on in LA is wild to me. Are you seeing all this stuff? Oh my gosh. On the way here

I just saw that there was a robbery in the Pacific Palisades and they were showing them on camera and it's like these are secluded. I mean, they're happening on the street. I just don't want to make it seem like it's happening in rich neighborhoods. It's happening everywhere. But it just seems to be so rampant. And I mean, I have citizen.

And it's like it goes off all the time with the most crazy, like, charges or I shouldn't say charges, with the most crazy, like, what's the word I'm looking for? Crimes. The most crazy crimes that I'm seeing pop up on my citizen. It's wild out here. I have to take citizen off. Like you got addicted to it? I had to do.

Yeah, I had to do it. I would put it back just because of everything that's going on. Why? How does this is going to help? I don't know. It's because it tells you how many miles away something is happening around you. And like for me, like Brian said something the other day where he said, I know so much is happening, but I don't feel it.

And I go, you need to feel it. You need to be, have your head on a swivel. Like somebody told me the other day that when I'm going home, I should round the block two or three times before I pull into my actual place just to make sure that I'm not being followed. It's like you don't think about that. but we need to be thinking about that. People are desperate.

That's actually not what I would tell you. Oh, what would you tell me? I would tell you you wearing too much jewelry right now. So here's the thing also. I don't wear my wedding ring. I mean, I came from work, so on television, yes. But when I go out, I don't wear my engagement ring. I don't do it anymore.

Yeah. You guys think that you guys can think that I'm pussy or whatever, but I don't wear nothing. Like, I just, they, it's wild. I can't tell you how many times. times on Citizen you don't have anymore. It pops up and it says, man wearing a Rolex robbed. Right. It's just sad. It's very sad. But it also tells you how people are out there kind of suffering. It's like it's very desperate times. It's very desperate times. And a lot of these

situations are happening in these high profile areas. All right. So we got to talk about updates in the Justice Smolet trial. You're still anti-Justice Smolet. True. I've never said that I'm anti him, I just think that this was a setup by him. You think he did it? I think that he wasn't attacked by a MAGA, Trump

going person. I think that he did hire these people to attack him. For whatever reason, I don't know. Well, Jesse Smolett has now testified in this trial. He has said it is, in fact, not a hoax. The two brothers, Bola and Ola.

Stop. Don't laugh Do you cannot laugh at their names You can't do that You then you can't You can't You can't You can't laugh at their names

If we're laughing They're laughing Bola and Ola On the Sadario They testified Last week Bola and Ola did that Jussie

I paid them 3,500 bucks to beat them up put the news around his neck I guess wash his face and bleach or whatever the fuck happened. Their testimony is the core of this. Justice Malette took the trial, took the stand today.

And he said that that's not true. He said there was no hoax. He said that, you know, he met Bola and Bola helped him get drugs, including cocaine. He said a sexual relationship began to forge between the two at a Chicago bathhouse. So him and Bola was getting down.

Once the two were out, Justice Mollett testified they got a private room and did more drugs and then they made out. So he's saying that him and Bola had a specific relationship. Now, there's something about this that I want to point out.

Okay. And I feel like this lends itself to Jesse's story. All right? Mm-hmm. It's something that really hit home with me. So, Jesse Smollett testified

that he went to the subway and when he went to the subway he was attacked by men who were wearing MAGA hats that say that this is MAGA country he assumed that they were white

because if it wasn't fucking Candace Owens and goddamn Larry Elder what are the chances that somebody black would scream this is MAGA country so he assumed that they were white probably a bad assumption on his part but he assumed they put a news around his neck They assaulted Jesse. There's one thing to me that really made this whole situation real.

Jesse said that after this was over, he decided to leave the news around his neck and go to his apartment. But there's something that he did before this. He picked up his subway sandwich. Did he say that? Yep. Like he stood in line? No. The subway sandwich apparently.

fell in the fracas. In the middle of this fracas, where he says he's not sure if he landed a punch, he dropped his subway sandwich. He then picked his subway sandwich up and went back to his apartment. I submit to the ladies and gentlemen of the higher learning jury, that that's a very

key detail. Because if you are, in fact, emotionally distraught and then you're in a bad situation, you are going to grab that sandwich. If you set this up, think about it. Think about all the times that you've been to a situation. Think about this.

Tell you people like this. Think about a night out at the club, right? You're a man, you're a woman, you're having a night out at the club. You want to go out and you want to meet someone. But you didn't. You know what you do on the way home from the club? You stop off and you get me.

Donald's, you get something like that, you make yourself feel better after a night where you took an L. If Justice Millett wasn't in a true, a true, a true, emotionally disturbing situation, there's no way he would have brought the subway sandwich back to the apartment with him. He would have left the subway sandwich if this was a setup. The subway sandwich is now nothing but a prop. The subway sandwich was his, he was. He was using, hold on, he was using the subway sandwich to soothe him. He was hungry.

All right. He was hungry. He got attacked. Subway sandwich is there. I'm going back to the house to eat the subway sandwich because I'm, I'm in a real bad emotional situation. We call to police. Man. Other hand is going to have the sandwich.

I believe this. This is subway. What about it? It wasn't Ruth Chris. So what? It's not like he was leaving a $50 steak or something on the ground. Okay. Let me tell you something.

Let me tell you something. So you're against subway. Let me tell you something. No, I actually like something. I was about to say. Let me tell you something. Hey, don't fuck your money up. Let me tell you.

Don't fuck your money up, okay? They're giving them out. Let me tell you something. Don't fuck your money up. If I am attacked at night out of nowhere by racist and I am fearful of my life and they go as far not just to verbally attack me. They physically assault me with and put a noose around my neck where I am fearful that I cannot.

You're going to leave the sandwich? I am going to get the fuck out of there as fast as I can. I am running for my life and I'm looking for help or to get home. I'm not going to sit there, look around and say, I've got to get my Subway sandwich because I'm still hungry. I'm going to be honest with you. I guarantee you more people agree with me. If you just got fucked up, if you just got fucked up.

Because remember, this is after the attack. If you just got fucked up, you got fucked up. You got fucked up. I'm thinking the police. I'm thinking I got to stop. He said he scared of the police. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to call for help. I'm not going to just be like, you know what?

I'm just going to go to my apartment, unwrap this sandwich, I just. Peel back the paper and bite into this six-foot, six-inch or one or two, 12-inch sandwich. There's no way. There's no way.

Just Mrs. Slet said he noticed a news around his neck as you return to an apartment. He says he picked up his phone. and told the person he had got jumped. He picked up the sandwich as well. He picked up the sandwich. He picked up the sandwich. Under cross-examination, Smollett said he refused to give Chicago police his cell phone

for their investigation because he wanted his privacy. Can I ask you guys a question? Why do y'all want Jesse to be guilty so much? I'm not. We're talking about the facts of the case. So I'm saying... It's not that you want to. it just seems suspicious.

Here's my question. Did we make up the fact that he wrote them a check? Because I'm not seeing that in the article. I'm not saying that in the article either, but I do know. He did write them a check for something. He got kicked on his side. Well, he wrote them a check for training, he said. But they're saying that this check was using the attack.

Here's my other question. What reason do they have to lie that he made it up? What do you mean? So they're saying that they were paid. to do this. Is he saying that they are the ones who attacked him?

So we know that they're the ones that carried out the attack. They're definitely the ones. They're saying that they did it because he paid them do it.

He's saying they did it because they wanted to extort money from him. Yeah. Okay. So they wanted to extort money from them and also there might not be enough proof.

There appears to be a sexual relationship for this. Let me tell you something right now. But then he could have done If they wanted to extort money from him, they could have tried to expose that rather than having to go through all of this. Should I call Jesse right now? No, and you can't talk. I'll tell you, I'll tell you the text to him right now.

If Jesse beats this, I don't want to hear shit else. There's nothing else to say. If he beats it, that's it. Okay. Now, a lot of people are listening to this. You guys are all out there on your high horses. You act like you never go to subway in the middle of the night. Like you never had some people, hire some people to beat you up.

Let it go. People do stuff. Okay. I gotta stop treating black man like this. That's what we're gonna talk about later on. Jesse's a black man. All right. So what?

Even if it was a hoax, Jesse come back to the family. Man, bye Van. Even if it was a hoax. Let's go. Let's just wait to see what the jury says. Rachel.

He should get away with it. Rachel. Not that he should go. Even if he did it. That's what you said. Even if he did it. If it was a hoax, who cares. So what?

He's black. He gets a pass. Who cares? Who got hurt? Jesse, apparently. You care about the Chicago police? I'm not. That's not the point.

You can't, like he, we were all, if he lied, we were all upset. Like, we, we don't need to get into us. We get upset about all kinds of shit. I want to hear what the jury has to say. I got upset about, all we do is get upset. All we do is get upset. All we do, we're just angry? It's very true.

We're just running around. We're angry. You want, let's say Jesse is guilty. What would you want to happen to him? That's the question. Let's say, let's say, community service. Community service. And you know what?

community. I don't even care anymore. He needs to be serving the same community. He's always served our community because he's been a big time ally of blacks. But you guys just had the blacks and our LGBT brothers and sisters. Roll the tape. You literally said you thought he was guilty. That's not the point. That's not the point. You hoped you're wrong. But then Subway got inserted into the picture and all the sudden we want to backtrack. I'm telling you, man. They're giving out these deals. What kind of Subway sandwich says it though? What's your, what's your go-to subway sandwich? Forest ham, six inch. You're the biggest fucking pork person ever.

It's so disgusting. And I don't apologize for it. I wonder if what I'm about to say. You know what I get the meatball sandwich. They don't look cooked. It's like. They don't look. When they pull them out, I've seen it on other people.

I'm like, they don't look. It's like the bacon that they have there. I'm going to tell you something real quick. We got to go because it's been a long podcast. I can tell you something real quick. Ian Spooner, my friend Ian Spooner. You guys go back to Ian, tell Ian that he's a

jerk. So this was at like when I was really getting it food-wise, right? Like super getting it. And we went to subway. And it was like we went to subway. It's like, yo, I'm going to lose weight. So I'm going to go to the subway. So I get inside the subway. Jared. And this thing was wild of Jared. So I get inside the subway, right? And I'm in there and I want to get like, I want to get a turkey with like no loaf, no cheese and just a little. little mustard. I want to get that, but I see that they got the brand new meatballs. They just brought the little thing out.

You know? Yes, I've seen. It's not like the, they don't have the, like, it's not the old meatballs. They brought like the brand new meatballs out. And I'd see them, so I hear that little sounds, where they take the lid off the meatball thing right there and there. It's like, it's right there. I know

that the meatballs with the cheese and stuff and I know it's going to be dope. So I say, fuck it. Right. And I get a footlong meatball. sandwich. A foot. A foot. How many balls are in the foot? Wow. I'm not sure. It's got to be at least a ball. Ew! It's got to be at least eight balls. Four per six inches. It's got to be.

So gross. So then I get the cheese. And the cheese automatically melts when you get the meatball, right? And then like something happens where like the, like the sandwich kind of gets a little bit. It eats up the like the meatball sauce, right? It's good. It's like this whole thing. And it gets soggy. Not soggy, but just a little soft way. And so then I get it. I'm like, fuck it now, right? I'm like, fuck it now. And so I go to the end, I get like a bag of chips because I used to have the Olean chips.

Get to tasting the sandwich. Okay, so listen, I get the bag of chips, right? I get the bag of chips. And then I get two chocolate chip cookies because, fuck it, we're in the wilderness now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like whatever. I go for the sugar, I get it.

Fuck it, we in the wilderness now. So I get back in the car. And Ian is sitting in the car and, like, he's in the front seat and I'm in the backseat. And he adjusts the rearview mirror. And he sees me wildly like an animal. You know what I mean? Like, he sees me. It's like feral and desperate.

Like, he sees me. I got the, I got the, I got the, I'm like in the back like this. Nobody's around you. Nobody's around me. But I'm protecting my sandwich and I, and then I, then I eat a piece of cookie bowl. And he, and he looks at, I don't know what came over me. I was just like, just, I just. And he looks at me, bro.

And he was like, he was like, he was like, he looks at me, brother. He was like, he looks at me, brother. He was, he, I'm telling you. He looks in the river mirror. He's like, hey, nigger, bro. I'm sorry, bro. You need help, bro. Like, he's like, I'm sorry, bro.

You look like a fat fucking wolf. He was like, bro, you need help, bro. He's like, you look like a fat wolf back there, bro. I see it. I'm just, I don't know why because I felt, I felt so bad for myself. I felt so bad that I caved because I went into someone with the best of intention. I went to somewhere. I went in the subway with the best of intentions.

The best of intentions. I'm going to eat light. That lasted love. Like, I'm going to go in there. I'll never forget. I'm just, I'm like, fuck it.

Now I'm mad. I don't want to sit right next to him. There was nobody else in the car, by the way. I got in the back seat in the car to put distance between me and Ian because I knew that he would judgment. So I'm in the back of, I'm like,

you know what I mean? He just, he couldn't handle it. He had to make his presence felt. Now I understand. You know, on the Jesse Smolet. In your mind,

he was attacking a meatball foot long sandwich. He was attacking a meatball footlong sandwich. Just like that. It took you back. It took me back to that moment. And I know that when Jesse got into the apartment, that's the same way he was with his sandwich. He might have been trying to protect his sandwich from his assailers.

I'm done. We're done. Hit Ian up. Ian's going to remember. Oh, Ian. That's it. You know. I had a different

Vans very serious question. What was it? You want to save it? Maybe. Maybe I want to save fans. What was your serious questions? It was very serious question. Maybe I want to save it.

Oh, the discount? Yeah, it was the, how much of a black people discount do you give to black people? But like, it's not, it doesn't seem like that's that serious. You know what I mean? Okay, we'll give it to us then.

What do you have in mine? I don't know. I don't think I want it. I want to do it. I want to save it. It's a good one. It's a good one. one. Look, you guys, this was our first podcast in person. I think we learned a couple of things.

What did you learn? What did you learn? Isaac. You look at Isaac. He keeps looking at Isaac. Isaac did not ask to be a part of this. You keep bringing a man. If you're in the room, you're a thought warrior. I do want to say one thing, though, about the Michael Arsino conversation, about this conversation, period, before we leave. Okay. So it is not my intention to be on the right side of every single issue. Okay. And I don't think it should be anybody's because I'm going to see things. And based upon my experience, I am going to react to them and talk about them, even when I think that I'm right.

And by the way, I didn't do it and agree to disagree on this situation. I still do think there's oxygen for the way that I look at this. I do. I can understand, though, that I'm never going to put my experience over somebody else's trauma, and I don't want to do that. So I acquies to that. But I think there's oxygen for the way that I look at it. I want to do something right now, while we're all in this room sharing oxygen,

like sharing experience, sharing energy. I want to challenge the audience of the podcast sometimes. Okay. And the way that I want to challenge them is I want to challenge them to be wrong. Because a lot of times the need to be right all the time stops us from, to me, genuinely evolving our outlook. Right.

And that's how, in my opinion, the microaggressions that we exhibit on an everyday basis become huge aggressions. Because it's not that you've actually really processed anything and change. you're putting on airs to make people think that you're a way when you're really not. So the things that I can appreciate about having conversations that might really be difficult or having conversations that might be uncomfortable, white background, is that you really get into the guts of something. And when you get into the guts of something, you get a little blood on you.

And it's not easy to clean off. And it's a moment that you share with people. So I know that it's with the way things are right now that if you're wrong, you're on the wrong side of something that people kind of feed on you and there's a feeding frenzy, but that shouldn't change. You have to be intellectually brave and curious enough to go out with something that might be true to you

but not true to somebody else. Example of that real quick. Aquafina, right? Aquafina uses a black scent. Still? The black sense is kind of there, right? Okay. So there's this tape that there's this clip that goes around about Aquafina where they're

asking her about the blackson and she's like, well, you know, it's not a great answer she gives. It's layered, it's this and it's that. I want the full conversation with her about the experience that she had or why she talks that way. And I don't want to know it just so I can know the best way to kick her and her nuts about it. it, I want to actually understand it. Not that it'll ever be okay with me, but that it might stop me from internalizing something that makes me look at her as less than a person. So for me, I don't mind going to a place where I'm uncomfortable with her defending herself

or uncomfortable with her saying what it is that she's saying so that we can come to a point to where at least if we don't agree, which is not going to happen in all cases, at least we understand each other. because understanding one another is way more important than agreeing with one another. Yeah. You're absolutely right,

but what you just put out there means that two people have to come together and actually be opening to accept what the other one is saying, right? You want Aquafina to speak her truth. I hate that phrase, but you know what I mean? Like speak, tell the reason as to why.

But the reason she's probably afraid to do that is because she doesn't want to be canceled. She doesn't want people to assume certain things about her. She doesn't want people to miss. understand it. But if people are receptive to understanding why she did it, like you, and aren't going to judge her or cancel her, they just want to understand where it's coming from because it'll give them a better understanding of her. And then it might open up a conversation as to, hey,

this is why this is wrong. This is why you shouldn't do that. People don't have the maturity, the understanding, the patience, the willingness to come to the table and do that. The conversation that you and Michael had is because both of you were willing to hear the other. one side. He respected one another. You weren't going to judge the conversation. You just wanted to hear what the other one had to say. Right or wrong. It wasn't about that. It was just understanding what your brother

had to say. People don't do that. Society doesn't do that. Social media doesn't do that, which is why we're in the position that we are today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to do it here on higher learning. So, you know, when you guys hear Rachel say all of this weird, wild, wrong shit, like stop going crazy. Shout out to Scandinavia.

Shout out to, ooh. Shout out to Scandinavia and the Netherlands. Well, I don't know. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Scandinavian countries. Those were the six, and it does not include the Netherlands. So Amsterdam is the capital of the Netherlands, and it's not Scandinavian. It's not Scandinavia.

But Denmark is. But Denmark is. Shout out to the little mermaid. My name is Van Lathen, Jr. And I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Take 10 caps off, but do not stop letting them you are out. Bye, guys.