Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - War in Iran, Chalamet vs. Jordan, and the American Black Film Festival

Episode Date: March 3, 2026

Van and Rachel welcome Indiana University associate professor Hussein Banai, who gives his insight on the joint strikes against Iran. Then they switch gears to discuss Michael B. Jordan’s Oscar odds and Jonathan Majors’s next project. Then Jeff and Nicole Friday join to celebrate 30 years of the American Black Film Festival. (0:00) Intro (09:23) Hussein Banai on the conflict in Iran (41:53) Predictive history (1:02:20) NAACP Image Awards (1:09:27) Oscar speculation (1:23:36) Jonathan Majors and Ben Shapiro (1:36:34) Jeff and Nicole Friday join the show (2:05:42) Magic City Monday and the NBA Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Hussein Banai, Jeff Friday, and Nicole Friday Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Jade Whaley Social Producer: Bernard Moore Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yeah, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Hard learning is on is Ivan Lathin, Jr. And it is me, Rachel Lange. What feedback have you gotten on the new studio? What's the been of feedback? That it's giving R&B, like, intimate, low, set, like, low lights, very sexy. But people love it.

They like it. If you guys have other things to say about the new studio, you know, just. What are you? hearing talking i haven't really heard much okay i feel like i'm getting a lot of feedback on people are talking to you about the studio yeah uh people like kevin on stage they enjoy him they loved what i didn't realize he had a a name for his audience was it's a stage crew like something something people kept writing i think that's what it is like stage crew or something like his followers or something like that I thought that was cute.

So the stage crew, the Kevon stage, stage crewers, and we're into it. Take time. Just making sure. Make sure I get it right. I want to be disrespectful. It was a great podcast. I'm glad we decided to let that be the whole podcast because it would have been a sharp left turn if we had changed, turn to any other subject. Yeah, it looks like it's stage crew.

At stage crew right here, Kev on stage. So shout out to them. Shout out to Kev. He's legitimately a good person. A lot of my more religious friends were happy that we had some God talk on the podcast. Oh, really? Yeah, they feel like we don't get into our spiritual bag enough. I would, I don't know.

Because were we, they didn't think we were too critical? Or did they appreciate the honesty? Yeah, I mean. Because that's what I got a lot of. I think, well, I don't know. I don't know. What did you people say? I mean, I didn't talk to a whole lot of people, but some of the feedback I got,

people just really appreciated an honest conversation and felt seen as kids who grew up in the church and maybe feel conflicted in ways than they used to. They just felt, yeah. And then like some people were like, they only maybe know Kev on stage in one way. And so they felt like seeing this in-depth conversation

turned them into an even bigger fan than they were before. What did you do this weekend? What was going on? What did I do? I felt like I was chill this weekend. Last night I went to the SAG. after a party. And then I don't think I did anything this weekend.

What did you do? Hung out. Me and mom took like a five-hour drive. She left this morning, but we went from, we went back to Hawthorne where we used to live. Okay. So we went back to Hawthorne. We saw the old place, let the emotions stir up.

Then we drove. I decided something. I know what the thing. The best view of Los Angeles is. The best view in the city is the view from Palace Verdes. Oh, I've never been. That is the best view in L.A. It is mystical.

It is spiritual. You can see the entire coastline, but then you can look out Catalina and all of that stuff. It's the best view in L.A. Can you see downtown from there? I don't know. Okay. But you probably can because you can see downtown pretty much from everywhere in Los Angeles. you probably can, but I never always look more towards Santa Monica.

I've fantastic. Never been. Oh, you know what I did do? I, you know, because I'm trying to watch these movies before, which I thought the Oscars was this coming up Sunday. It's the Sunday after, so I'm actually excited because I have more time now, but I watched Frankenstein. What did you think? I loved it. You loved that movie.

I thought it was really good. Why did you like it? I guess I have never watched any of the other Frankenstein movies. And so I guess I might. You've never seen a Frankenstein movie of any time. Come on, is this shocking? One movie of Frankenstein. Is this shocking?

So now I have. And I've realized that I like movies where you really understand and maybe even feel conflicted. I really don't feel conflicted because I'm right there with them. but where you understand how a person becomes bad or there's a misconception around the main character. And so you find yourself rooting for them despite maybe they've turned a corner

because you understand how they got there and they weren't originally that way. Like the Joker. Like Joker. I love Joker. You love the first Joker movie. I love the one with Joaquin. Joaquin Fins.

The original, you love it. You love that movie. I've watched it so many times. How interesting. So I realize I like that. And so in this movie, and I thought Jacob did an amazing job, you know, playing him. And so did Oscar Isaac, but as Frankenstein.

But I really loved the movie. What's your opinion of Jacob Elordia is James Bond. I don't. Bond. Okay. Now this isn't going to be shot. But you know, I've never seen a mob movie, not one. But my perception of James Bond is that he's a charmer.

And even though Jacob is attractive, I feel like the roles that I have seen him play, he does not play that type of character. So I'd be interested to see how he is. He's a little bit more dark and mysterious in the things that I've seen him. When you say James Bond is a charmer, you mean that, like, James Bond himself The character So but he has to have

Well hold on He is a charmer But like in a very You know James Bond is He's he's toxic So he's a he's a charmer But not in a way that I mean Daniel Craig's James Barn

Had like no charm He's a charmer He's a charmer but not in that way Right he's not like We just did crazy super love On the rewatchables You know how he was kind of being charming James Bond is more of a

Old School Peaky Blinders type of charm. Yeah. Yeah, so that, I mean, you know, I just, I don't, I mean. James Bond walking the fucking thing like Sean Connery James Bond, like bitch go get me a fucking legitimately. I don't think that that's how they'll have him, but I, he's a talented actor, so I'm sure you could do anything. I just don't see it. Let me describe you the type of charm that James Bond has. Y'all know the movie scenes where a man says something to a woman and a woman tries to hit the man and then he catches her hand and then

when he catches her hand she is so overwhelmed by his masculinity that that leads to a kiss. Have y'all seen this? This is a trope to where the man says something to a woman and she goes you son of her and she hits him and he catches the hand and

as soon as he catches the hand she goes and then like he looks at her and he goes that you think I could grab you like this then they kick you. That's James Bond's charm. That's the type of charm. Toxic, I catch your hand.

I incite you to make you want to hit me. Then I catch the hand, which lets you know you can't hurt me. You might as well give Jimmy Bond what he wants. Okay. So wait, are you saying Jacob is this person? Like Jacob's going to be. I'm saying he could be. The more problem with me with him as James Bond is he's like six foot.

five. So you know. So you can't be tall? As a secret agent? I would think that a secret agent would have to like blend in. Does James Bond blend in? Does he go undercover? Not as much.

I didn't think so. But he does sometimes. He does. You know, and you, but just six foot five and this is, but I think that he'll be a fine. Is that, is that for sure? He's been offered the role reportedly. He has been offered. They say.

Oh. They say. They say he's been offered the role reportedly. Okay. All right. But we're not sure whether or not it's going to be him. The question is who it's going to be. The question is, does it still matter? Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis,

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slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. We have Jeff and Nicole Friday on the show today to talk about ABFF. You guys have heard me talk about ABFF is the 30th year anniversary. 30th year. It's the 30th anniversary of ABFF down in Miami, May 27th through 31st, I think. It's going to be. We're going to talk to them about that, about ABFF, honors. about cultural solidarity in the arts.

And it's homecoming year for ABFF. Everybody come back down. It's kind of what they're wanting, what they're asking for. And that's what I think the industry should do because it's a pretty decent time for black creatives in the film industry where they wield a lot of power

and they can come back home. We can go back home to ABFF. We can talk to them later. But being that we live in the world, we have to start talking about the U.S. War of Choice in Iran. We're going to have Husband I joining us on the show pretty soon. We talked to him before when it was,

when I think it was the last time was the operation. What was the operation? It was the operation. No, it wasn't an operation. We were talking about the protests. The protests. We're talking about the protests. That had been happening, right?

But the most recently, we were talking about the protests, blackout and all of that, getting a lot of understanding with that. It's interesting you said the war of choice because literally that was one of the first questions I wanted to ask because it's not being presented to us as a war of choice. Interesting.

And you just described it as such. I would agree with you. But it's definitely a question I was going to ask the professor. We brought us, we spoke us into existence, bring us in right now. Look, there's a lot of things going right for him. Indiana won the national championship.

We're talking about that. That's right. There he is. Plus is here joining us. But there's also a lot that is not going right in the world.

We are now, we've done it. After a long time of being asked, the United States has elected to try regime change in Iran.

This war has been sold for many different reasons, but it seems that regime change is the most obvious one. But I'll start, thank you for joining this, by asking you, what is the reason for this war from where you sit? Great to be with both of you again. Thank you for having me on.

I'm still struggling to answer that question, frankly, and this is my everyday job trying to, you know, read into the motives of different decision makers, players when it comes to U.S.-Iran relations. And the reason why I'm having difficulty, I think it has to do with partially what you alluded to, which is there have been multiple reasons offered from time to time by this administration as to why it is handling Iran in the way that it is. And primarily a lot of that had to do with Iran's nuclear program, that Iran's cannot have a nuclear weapons program. You know, never mind that it was under international inspections and a nuclear deal that this administration pulled out of when it came to power first time in 2018. It pulled out of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action or the so-called Iran deal because it was a bad deal that President,

Trump didn't like. And really, his beef with Iran started from that point forward, right, that he was going to somehow get Iran to completely give up its nuclear program, and that if they didn't, he would try various different instruments that the Obama administration never tried, which, again, factually not correct, but this was the claim, to get them to give up their nuclear program. And so they started this campaign of maximum pressure, which was very punishing sanctions. And don't forget in 2020, assassinating Iran's most senior military commander, Ghassim Soleimani, to send them a signal that, you know, they were willing to go after leadership targets. Well, all of that amounted to Iran not giving them the deal that they

wanted. Fast forward. The Biden comes into office, four years. Trump is not. He comes back this time around and immediately picks up the threat of conversation where it was last time his administration was in power. And this time around, it was very clear that, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister in the aftermath of everything that had happened from October 7th forward really was pushing for regime change. And in fact, I think that was what Israel was hoping would happen in the June war that took place between June 23rd and roughly to the beginning of July. Oh, sorry, June 13th to June 25th.

I got my dates wrong. 12-day war. And, yeah, the 12-day war. And the Israelis thought that, you know, Trump would sign off on regime change right then and there. Why? Because the Iranian regime was really surprised. They had not expected.

They thought they were in the middle of negotiations with them. the United States and they were close to reaching a deal and they get attacked and then they have also another round of senior military commanders wiped out, assassinated, but then Trump pulls back and much to the chagrin of the Israelis does not go all the way for regime change. The reasons for that are still murky to this point. I think a lot of experts have pointed to the fact that Tucker Carlson, who was an outspoken critic of that war at that time, met with Trump, and he said, you do not want to kind of go down this path. It'll be a war of prolonged war, a disastrous one, but also your constituents didn't vote for this. And so he pulled back,

but he seems to have developed the appetite in the meantime to do it this time around as well. But this time around, when on Saturday morning, President announced the major combat operations in Iran, he once again put forward two seemingly different contradictory reasons. One was to wipe out Iran's nuclear program, which he had claimed and was obliterated in June in the 12-day war. So that at least contradicts his earlier statement as factually incorrect. But then he went on to say, we're going to get rid of your government to the Iranian people, and you take charge, which is an explicit claim for regime change. And we're going to change the regime. And of course, that was followed by the direct assassination of Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khan, on Sunday. And now the military campaign has kicked into a higher gear.

And this morning, he said they could take between four to five weeks, if not more, whatever it takes, he said, however long it takes to get the job done. And I don't know what the job done means exactly here, because if it's regime change and you don't have a single soldier on the ground, we know previous campaigns of regime change with soldiers on the ground. it and result in proper regime change, let alone a democratic government. So how could you expect that out of an air campaign here? And B, if it is not going to be regime change, what military objective exactly are you, would you be satisfied with by the end of that time period? So that incoherent, sorry, I know it's long-winded, is where we are. I think we're at a very strategically incoherent position from whichever angle you

look at. Yeah, there's definitely a lot, I feel like to unpack and I feel like the main question a lot of people have is, okay, so what's next? And I do want to get into that in a second, but before it's this question that Van and I were kind of talking about before you hopped on about, because we're getting contradictory information and it's this question of, is this a war of necessity or of choice. And because what we're being told isn't necessarily what we're seeing. And if it is a war of choice, which is what Van and I believe, what are the consequences if this is a war of choice?

Maybe before I answer that, I want to be very clear. I am as an Iranian-American and Canadian, I, the only reason why I live where I live, right now is because of this how terrible this regime is how my parents and whole family decided have to pick up and leave and immigrate and move here right i i'm i would be very happy to see this regime gone yesterday frankly um but when i look at this uh the way in which this campaign is being conducted also the way i look at the wars of the middle east in the 21st century alone have been conducted by the United States. I have to pause and a kind of take into consideration what is what is the specific interest of the government in charge that is being advanced

here. This is a war of choice. No question about it. It's not a war of necessity and the reason for that is that a war of necessity is one in which you either are about to be attacked or if you are not getting your act together quickly enough, there's going to be catastrophic consequences. Iran is a country that was just bombed heavily. Its defenses exposed as a joke and, frankly, an embarrassment for so-called regional power in the 12-day war just eight months ago. The United States and Israel demonstrated superior military,

both air power and sea power. They could go in and out of Iran if they wanted. They had intelligence on the movements of all the Iranian senior leadership, etc. So when you just look at both sides of the equation, you cannot look at Iran and say, oh, this country posed a massive danger to the United States. If it did not act, if the Trump administration did not act immediately, that they would have done something big.

I've seen no evidence presented. frankly, I haven't even seen that much effort be given by the administration to justify this as a war of necessity. You know, they don't even care. I mean, the Bush administration at least gave everyone the courtesy of manufacturing evidence and taking it all the way to the UN Security Council, you know, Colin Powell holding the vial of, you know, enriched uranium and saying, like, you know, is Saddam's about to get a nuclear weapon, et cetera, that proved to be false. none of this is happening here, right? And so it is a war of choice. Its timing is deliberately chosen by the president of the United States when it happened. And I also want to emphasize that this is the second salvo eight months ago the United States undertook a war of choice and ended the campaign in 12 days.

So when you go by the kind of conventional standard definitions of war of choice, This ticks all the boxes. And the administration hasn't really wasted or spent any time trying to explain otherwise. Yesterday, I was at In-N-Out Burger in Westwood. Hadn't had one in a long time. Good for you. I know that one. I know you like that.

You're in today. Shout out to Amin-Joseph. I ran to him there. It's an In-N-Out Burger in Westwood. Well, UCLA's campus, very close to the federal building off-war. Wilshire in West LA. So my trip to in and out

coincided with a bunch of hundreds of Iranian Americans not protesting, but celebrating, celebrating what they feel like is the possibility of the displacement of this regime. You seem to be

saying something different. There is at least a diasporic unity from the Iranians that I know around Los Angeles here in Tarangeles that this is a good thing and it doesn't matter who executes this. It doesn't matter what happens. The Islamic Republic for a long time has been brutally oppressive and they have to go. Two questions.

Number one, is there a difference between the opinions of Iranians? Iranians throughout the diaspora and Iranians that live inside of Iran, number one. Number two, for people that are trying to maintain solidarity with Muslim Iranians that they have been having solidarity with over Palestine, the opposition to the regime in Israel right now, that see inconsistency, that see now, it's okay if we bomb them. Muslims, we just have to bomb the right Muslims, right? Well, people see that. How are they supposed to square that? I'm seeing a lot of people going, hey, well, I thought that you guys were with us. I thought we understood that, you know, Western hegemony was bad for that region, that the United

States and Israel as a combined force in that region only have their own interests at heart. It's a long way of asking this question. But how do you have that? conversation because it's a really complicated one to hold space for your friends that are here, but at the same time, understand that geopolitically, this is the same type of neocon quagmire that we've been getting ourselves into for the last 50 years. Yeah. To answer your first question, no, there isn't that much of a difference between the desires of Iranians and the diaspora and those inside Iran. And I want to really recognize recognize an honor, it's very understandable for people who've lost family members, livelihoods,

who've had to pick up and leave and become refugees in Western countries to see this moment as a moment of hope, you know, that there's a possibility for another future in Iran. And Iranians inside Iran are, I think, are even more eager. You know, there is no shortage of videos, I'm sure you've seen these or soundbites coming out of Tehran, people celebrating after the news of the killing of Ayatollah Ali Hamini was announced, right? People dancing on the streets. This is a very brutal, very repressive regime. And so it's very understandable that I think people are celebrating in this moment. But, you know, I think these moments of relief of kind of pent up anxiety finally giving way to the possibility of an alternative future should quickly be followed by a set of critical questions simply because of what we've seen happen in Afghanistan and in Iraq, right?

There were diaspora of those countries, too, that were understandably so joyful and hopeful for a future after the Taliban. or Saddam and look what happened in those countries, right? Or in Libya. So, and that critical question in this moment is that is the United States committed to bring about a genuinely better, more representative, honest government in place of the current regime, okay, that at the level of commitment? Second, does it have the capacity to do? Can he even do it? Yeah. Because of what we saw even, you know, in the Bush administration, there were no shortage of people who were committed to, you know, a future Democratic Iraq.

These people had spent years planning, talking to their right exile groups, you know, what planning, what the structure of the new ministries was going to look like, right? And with that level of minute planning, it still turned out to be a kind of a country divided by sectarian strife and corruption and all, you know, U.S. military mismanagement, et cetera. Not to mention American boots on the ground and, you know, military commitments on the part of the United States as well. None of that is the case even here, right? So the critical question you have to ask for yourself is that celebrating, common A, getting killed, sure, great, absolutely, that this regime is, might there be an opening for a different type of government. Absolutely. What's going to happen, right, once the vacuums created? Who's going to fill it? How is it going to come about? Who are the transitional leaders? Does the United States, do the Israeli government, do they have the commitment, necessary? to bring that alternative future ahead. Can the Iranians do it themselves? You know, the Revolutionary Guards, which are the kind of umbrella security intelligence organization that by all intents on purposes are now in charge of the country that control about, you know,

one-third to two-third of Iran's political economy, massive assets, bank accounts, and UAE and, you know, European banks, et cetera. A lot of these people have families that are, you know, have multiple citizenships. They have businesses as well as, you know, military uniforms. This is not your Saddam's bath party disconnected from the rest of the world, you know, rigid from top to bottom. These people are not going to melt away. They have too many millions at stake here.

So how are they going to be negotiating? into a new power structure, et cetera. So I think those difficult questions of the day after, after the jubilation and all that are the ones that the diaspora's just beginning to ask itself. And Iranians inside Iran are also, I think, fundamentally curious about this because, you know, their information flows are different from us.

They look at the Trump administration. They're not really necessarily seeing, you know, just how arbitrary some of these decisions are made. made, they would assume that the American government must have a plan, right? That must have learned from its mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan. But by all intents and purposes, that's not the case at all either. So, you know, with hope comes illusion, unfortunately. And we have to be, you know, asking critical questions in programs like this to get people to think more comprehensively, comprehensively about these things.

I have one follow-up. Oh, yeah, okay. Just real. No, no, no. I'm going to stop. I have one follow-up, and this will actually be my last question. So I've heard the refrain that it's good that the Aalya has been taken out. Also heard that refrain as it regarded Venezuela.

It's good that Hugo Chavez, excuse me, Hugo Chavez. It's-Moduro. It took all the way back. It's good that Maduro was taken out. I guess my question is, is it good when a nation decides that they will make the determination to decapitate a foreign country's political and military intelligentsia? I understand that there are bad people running countries. There are bad people running countries. I know that there are bad people running countries.

I watch the Democrats from top to bottom, try to walk the line of, yes, it is a good thing that this person is taken out. They are told who it was taken out. But look at what could happen. It seems as if those two things are incongruent. Like if we are choosing, for whatever reason, like we chose in 53, when there was a democratically elected leader in Iran,

we didn't like it, not enough oil for us and the Brits. We decided you don't get to run your country. Now there's a bad guy. Everyone says it's a bad guy running the country. Oh, you're too bad. You don't get to run your country. is us choosing leaders for countries around the world is that a good thing like whether or not the guys are bad

whether or not it seems as if they could be bad for the people they could be good for the people if they don't align with what we want we make the decision about who's running some other country with a different culture somewhere else and then we got to go fight for that well there are two answers to that one is international law very clear It's not a question of good or bad. It's illegal. You can't do it. You can only attack another country if you've been attacked. And even then, the question of changing the regime of that country is not something that is allowed outside of an international legal process.

So international law on this is very clear. But let's step away from that because we are no international law is oftentimes loved more than it is observed. And it's recognized and breach more than in compliance. From a ethical standpoint, of is it good or not? Well, the question is, we can say it depends who the intervenors are and why they're doing what they're doing. The Cold War was a period in which the United States

could justify intervention in other countries by saying, well, we're doing it for, ethical aims to get countries to stay democratic, you know, in our camp that's like, you know, elas for representative government, more agency in the world, and the Soviets don't. So the argument kind of boil down to, you know, a good country done a bad thing. You know, they used to say this about Bill Clinton, you know, good man, done a bad thing when he had multiple scandals. It's kind of, you know, apply that principle to geopolitics. at that level. Well, you look at the picture now and you say, well, is this a case that this is a

government with very salutary aims that is just asked to achieve it by kind of illegal and unsalitory means? I don't think so. I think when you look at what's happening inside the United States, you know, there's a very good argument to be made that forget the, you know, Republican-Democrat perspective on this, that we're in the midst of a kind of a regime change at home. There's a fundamental shift in perspective of the interests of American government going forward that is so much more closely aligned to the interests of, frankly, networks of patronage around the White House that they are about the American national interest. So people pay attention to these things. People look at these things, right? They understand that the Trump brand and Trump name has an entirely different

qualitative field to it than American action here, right? And I think increasingly as more time goes by, people are going to see this as kind of a Trump administration war and what the aims of those are, as you mentioned in the case of Venezuela, right, that we just have magically forgotten that don't talk about, right? The extraction of one man did not result in the reshaping. of an entire new regime. That regime is intact. Nothing's changed about it. But American oil companies now have direct access. And within that, American oil companies closest to the White House, contributors to the campaign, et cetera, right? So we're living in a very kind of a different architecture of ethical and legal considerations than has been the case and the norm, frankly,

up until 2016. Something you wrote about, and it kind of piggybacks on what you guys are talking about, that I don't feel like people are talking enough about, is something that Trump said, and you highlight this when you write about this, said when he was addressing the nation, when he was talking in his speech about immunity. And you wrote, which kind of, he's kind of telling people what he plans to do. If you read between the lines and you speak directly to it,

you say the most probable outcome of this war then is an Iran governed by the guards themselves under new branding. Mr. Trump's offer of, quote, complete immunity to the guards if they stood down was an inadvertent acknowledgement that this institution cannot be dismantled, only co-opted. Can you explain that a little bit? Because I feel like I don't hear enough people highlighting that or talking about that because you could almost say the writing is on the wall. Yeah. Well, I think you put your finger on this, kind of the details of this war matter, right? I mean, we always kind of overlook the details so quickly and start to think about the kind of the forest. Well, the trees matter tremendously as well. I think when you look at the Revolutionary Guards, as I mentioned, they own up to perhaps maybe two-thirds of Iran's political economy. We don't know because it's so opaque. difficult to account for and especially for a country under sanctions, they've been so effective at camouflaging their bank accounts and, you know, the flow of so,

who knows, but we know it's at least a third plus. This organization that has civilian arms, intelligence arms, security arms, economic arms, is spread throughout all provinces in the country, throughout every structure of government, at every university, there's an office that reports back to the Revolution Guards, et cetera. It is a recognition by the White House that you cannot just melt this thing overnight, right? It's not going to just, you knocked off the top, and all these people all of a sudden are going to be like,

you know what, I'm going to give up my big purse here. So it is an acknowledgement by the White House to say, We have to kind of get buy-in from these groups. Well, if you're doing that, you're also saying inadvertently, perhaps, that we're okay if you stay in power, right? Just acknowledge new management, right? So rebranded Islamic Republic, is that what we're looking for? That's what seems to be the indication here, right? It's just that maybe get rid of a cleric.

I mean, they're going to probably elect a new cleric, but all chances are he's going to be very closely aligned with the Revolutionary Guard. right? Maybe Trump will be happy with that. You know, as long as he doesn't talk the way common aid, he'll be okay with that. Or even if he says that, but arrangements have been made that, you know, I don't know, U.S. companies can now all of a sudden be involved in Iran's oil sector as part of this arrangement. That'll be an okay outcome, right? One of the things that we've learned since January 2025, the return of the Trump administration, is that, But the White House is really preoccupied with resource control, you know, from the kind of early declarations or of desires to control the Panama Canal, Greenland, Canada as the 51st state,

even. You know, these are very resource-rich countries. Venezuela, very resource-rich. And there seems to be a kind of a calculation in mind that if as long as whoever's in charge will allow us to control resources or have direct access to very lucrative resources, be there oil, gas, rare earth, minerals, whatever, that the White House would be content with whatever form of governments in place, right? that is at odds with what Israel wants in all this. Netanyahu wants the Islamic Republic gone totally. Why? Because it sees it as an existential crisis for the state of Israel.

You know, how they're going to negotiate that is going to be interesting to watch. But I do think that in the point that you observed, I think this White House is already operating on the basis that, you know, we want to get a regime-friendly. to the Trump administration. We don't necessarily care, you know, who it is or what it looks like. You got anything else, Rach? No. Yeah.

Huss. Look, you know, you guys won. Indiana won the national championship. Okay. I'm sure you were over the world. Undefeated season. Perfect season. Give the whole context.

The whole context. Give the whole context. Get it right. Right, right, right. Your book, Republics of Myth, National Narratives about the U.S. Iran Conflict, this is published April 12, 2022. Before we let you go, what will that tell people about sort of the framework to understanding why we are at the point that we are with Iran? That there are always people, thank you for plugging the book, I appreciate you. there are always narratives of justification for people to be seen as legitimate in terms of what they say and what they do.

Every American presidency, every American administration has had its own narratives. Every Iranian government has had its own narratives. But we have to really subject those narratives to critical scrutiny to really get at the underlying interests. And when you do that, you find that there is not a monolithic interest called American interests, a monolithic interest called Iranian interest and that ordinary people oftentimes are are an afterthought to these grand narratives and I think in this particular moment when a war is literally waging and people's livelihoods are being displaced and there's so much hope and anxiety in the air it's very important to adopt the most you know critical outlook to all of this

as as as possible we now have experiences of two wars in the first quarter of the 20th century in Afghanistan and Iraq. I mean, you can add Libya. You can add Syria to this as well. Where difficult questions are never asked and, you know, ordinary lives are an afterthought. And, you know, they just set up the next war that way. So I appreciate you pausing and taking a moment to ask hard questions on this. Hus, thank you for joining us on higher learning, man. Thank you. Before we get off of this, Donnie, I put a video in the chat. So that video is by a professor named Jiang Shuncine. And he has a YouTube

a YouTube channel called Predictive History. Now, I'm not in any way espousing for predictive history in its accuracy or in its overall underlying message. Okay. Or overall underlying, underlying overall, whatever. But I want to play a video for you from March of 2024. It was? Yes. You didn't see when you put the video in. I didn't put the date.

There was no date. The video is from March of 2024. I want the audience to hear this. Here exactly from smart people, people who are paying attention. what was going to happen when Donald Trump was elected and how Donald Trump was going to make this war seemingly make sense to the American people. Donnie played it. Trump goes on TV and explains to American public

why the United States is fighting this war. And this is what Trump says. First, he says that for the past year, there have been violent protests in Iran. You have religious. protests, you have political protests, you have ethnic protests. The Iranian people are sick of the Ayatollah. They are sick of the dictatorship. They want democracy. They want freedom. And in response, the Resident Guard are killing thousands of protesters. Iran is on the brink of civil war. Therefore,

the United States has an obligation to protect the people of Iran. The people of Iran are praying for freedom and democracy. And the United States, the world's greatest democracy, must give them democracy. U.S. intelligence, along with Israeli intelligence, have discovered that for the past two years, Iran has been working very, very hard on developing a nuclear bomb. In fact, Iran is only one month away from having three, nuclear bombs so that New York City, San Francisco, and Los Angeles could all be destroyed. To prevent this, we must strike first to stop Iran's nuclear program.

Iranian proxies, the Houthis, Hezbollah, many groups, have been disrupting shipping in the Middle East in both the Red Sea and the shore of Homoos. global prosperity is at stake. We must go to war to protect these shipping lanes and ensure that the oil goes to China, Japan, and South Korea so that they can continue their economic prosperity. So the United States, as the world hegemon, has a responsibility to protect global prosperity. Okay, so that is, he goes on. Doesn't he mention Venezuela? Huh? Or did I make that up? No, I cut the video a little bit because it's like five.

I've been to say. So he goes on to talk more about it. Okay. I want to play that video for people to say a couple of things. Number one, smart people knew that this was coming. Smart people knew that we were getting into a war with Iran. We knew that the assassination of Iran's number two in 19. was a pretext to this

and that there was nothing that anyone was going to be able to do to talk to Trump administration out of doing what it is doing right now. This was coming. This was coming. Every single person, every person that believed

the president of peace lie during the campaign and voted for Trump, you got cucked. They cucked you. you got cooked. It just simply wasn't true. We could tongue wrestle all you guys want about how you are forced to look at it now

because you're being ordered to, but it's not true. I want people to know that a lot of the people with gigantic platforms that you listen to and think that these platforms mean that they must have some expertise on what it is that they are talking about, They are nothing but dick suckers with expensive mouths. There are people who don't know what the fuck that they're talking about. They just have a little bit more money than you do. People who are paying attention, people who can see the geopolitical angles,

they knew that Trump and everybody that is backed and bankrupt Trump was desperate for this war. What I think would be awesome would be if you, knew it if you knew that there are certain people who are going to war not because anyone is necessarily in peril or anyone is necessarily in danger or you are in peril or you are in danger that there are all types of different reasons that are animating these people who are making worldwide decisions to do the things that they do and the least of them is what happens to you. The least of them is your life. The very lowest concern on the totem pole is whether or not

your gas is going to be more expensive, whether or not your son or daughter is going to die out there. Nothing, I think that selling it as something to free somebody else makes a compelling red herring. I do. And I completely understand all of my friends and the people that I know that are dreaming for the freedom of their home country. I completely understand that. I get it. I am not going to ask anyone to bite their tongue in that. You can't at all.

But what I will say is, just like Hus was saying, what is next? What is next? are you free if you are being dominated by Israel and the United States? Are you free? Is that freedom? Is that the version of freedom that's better than what's going on there right now? I cannot say that because I did not have my father, grandfather, great-grandfather, whomever, not great-grandfather, but I didn't have my people kicked out of a country

that I could never go back to. I'm not somebody that was born here that has never been. been to the place where my entire culture, an ancient, beautiful culture, was created. I can't speak to that. But what I can't tell you is this has never worked out. It doesn't really work out. And it doesn't seem to be possible for it to work out right now because we don't even know what we're doing.

And in all of this, all of this stuff happening, there are people who tried to get you to vote for this. They didn't try. They actually did. And you voted for it. There are people that told you that peace was on the agenda here. You believed them. There are people that told you that this was about anything way more than geopolitical domination.

The question is, will you believe that lie to? And just that's the, I saw Van Jones talking about Rezapobovie and what could happen if Rezopoviv comes in and in some way. stabilizes Iran until a better, more visionary, government can come in. That video is so dumb. Like, I literally have a five-cent understanding of everything that's going on right here. I've only done the required reason and had the required conversation. That video is so fucking stupid, guys. That's such a dumb video.

It's such bullshit. It's all such bullshit. It's all bullshit. You pretty much said majority of my thoughts in what you just said, well said. I guess the only thing I would say is, you know, I don't know, Van, when most people are not going to have a geopolitical understanding. or an outlook of what's happening or what is even to happen in the future. And so it's like when you're trying to get the American people or the people who voted for Trump to realize what's happening, how is it that you break through to them and talk to them, right?

Because the people who support Trump and the Trump or who voted for him, maybe not necessarily who voted because there are some people who are seeing it in a different way, but the people who want to believe that Trump is doing the right thing. They are easily influenced by being able to say, like, you call it a red herring. They're helping these people. That's what America does. America is this great country.

Or they enjoy seeing America be powerful and overtaking and fighting other countries. And like, they relish in that kind of thing. So I guess the question is, how do you break through that kind of thing? Or they like being better than other people. Like being America, being on top, America being the most powerful country, they buy into that kind of rhetoric. So how do you cut through that and make them realize that actually, as you pointed out,

you matter the very least to them. Your interests matter the very least to them. For them, they are using these things or playing off of your feelings in order to achieve the success that they want at the end of the day. Their business interests, their financial interests, their power. in all of this. Like, how do you break through? And for me, I would say, I don't think that you have to have that much of a geopolitical understanding to see how this is directly impacting you, because one, we have access to more things than we ever have before when it comes to information, even if

there is a lot of misinformation out there. But the other thing is how it's impacting you right now. I think you can look at Venezuela, which has talked about, and you kind of mentioned as well, and say, okay, when we went into Venezuela, what they said was regime change, regime change, regime change. The current regime is still there. The person right after Maduro is right there. Nothing has changed as far as how those people are governed. So, and then they put there, but they call,

Americans call that a success. Then how do you not compare that to what's going to happen in Iran? How is that going to be any different? Huss laid it out with what Trump said in his speech. You're talking about what Van Jones said. You know, Huss laid it out too about this regime that has spent 47 years building itself up. It's complex. It's a network.

You can't just walk in there and somebody else come in and say, okay, now everything is going to be different. That's in addition to Israel and the U.S. And their governance over it, what that'll look like. I just think that if you look at, if people in America could just look at their current lives right now and just look at simply comparing what is happening in this country and why you think that Trump is going to, is actually going to do the things that he says or actually means those things, I think you could look at that and say, you know what, that's probably not going to be true. Why would Donald Trump care? And I don't mean to be crass and I don't mean to be disrespectful to what erroneous.

Iranians are going through as you laid out what they have been through, the regime that has been in control, and how that has been devastating for the Iranian people and how so many people have had to flee from that type of government and that type of rule. But why would you think that Donald Trump cares so much about the people in that country that he cares about liberating them and wanting them to be better when he doesn't even care about the citizens, that the American citizens, in this nation and how they're living. Why would he all of a sudden develop that desire for someone else at a completely different country when the very country he comes from he doesn't even have it?

I think if people could look at those things, then I think that and really take that in, that maybe that can be the breakthrough to realize Trump is full of shit. Well, I mean, I agree. there's nothing else to do other than to agree. But I guess what I would say is that the easiest way for me, and this is kind of the thing that kind of breaks my brain a little bit, is this is not like, let's say you have somebody and they say, hey, I'm not going to eat brownies anymore.

No more brownies trying to lose weight. Then they eat a brownie. Right? You look at them and you say, hey, you said you are anti-browny, and now you're eating a brownie. Well, that's different. You know why that's different? Because you're a person and you have brownie cravings and you might not be your best self the entire time. You might look at a brownie and go, hey, man, you know, I deserve this.

Might make up all kinds of reasons in your mind to go and eat the brownie. This is with anyone. I give grace to people that are trying to change themselves and change habits and all. stuff like that, stuff like that. This is different than saying, hey, I don't want to be embroiled in foreign wars and then running on that as if it constitutes a direct difference between you and the other side.

No foreign wars, no wars of choice, no U.S. meddling in geopolitical situations, around the globe for reasons that are drummed up by the neocons that just will not go away in our society. So you say that, you run on that, you say, I'm different because this is the deal, I'm this, and then you don't do it.

As a matter of fact, not only do you not do it, you don't do it for any reason that can be perceived, perceived as an outlier. Let's say that there is a boat that is somewhere, the boat gets hit, and we trace it back to Iran, whatever, whatever, Venezuela, you don't even try to do that.

You just wake up one morning and go, we're going. Now, all of that is what it is. This has been, Netanyahu said it himself, this war has been 40 years in the making. He said that himself. He said it. Forget about me. He said it's been 40 years.

years in the making. Cool. He got his war. I'm talking to you. I'm talking to you. I'm talking to you. The people that are on here lying to you, are you at least going to be like, hey, you're like, just at least be like, hey, you're like. By the way, not everybody on the right is doing this. I'm not about to start handing out, but there are a lot of people who are being like, hey, you guys, I'm not enough of a cuck to pretend like I wasn't lied to in this situation. We got to move off this because I don't want to like. I don't want to belaborate, but this situation to me is much more about you. Once again, people in any country, in any place, anywhere that are yearning for freedom. They are yearning for freedom. They might not pick liberators at the right time or the right liberators. I get that. I'm not about to make moral judgments about people who watch, you know, I'm not doing that. I, I, That is my, I can't do that.

But what I can say, in this situation or in any other situation, please consider people who care more about your life, what you're going through, what happens to you than they do about their cult of personality, their political career, or gaining power in some region somewhere that is going to benefit them. I can ask people to do that because if we do that, we would just simply say, hey, you're not, what you just said, you're not telling the truth. You're lying.

Make it make sense. And this truly the last thing. If you're not curious enough to do that, just fucking swallow the lie. But don't, if you're not curious enough to interrogate power, interrogate what you're hearing. If you're not curious enough about it, I saw a guy named Adam Sosnik on the PBD podcast say that democracy

was impossible that democracy couldn't exist in the Middle East fucking democracy existed in Iran they voted for a guy as their prime minister they shook off monarchy

they voted for a guy as their prime minister and he was there you know what that guy said you can't come in and take all of our oil and do all kinds and you know what us and the British and the oil company said they said no they said you know what Operation Ajax, 1953, we're going to come take your country.

So either that guy on that podcast is a fucking moron, right, who doesn't see it or he doesn't know. And what I'm asking you guys is to investigate stuff like that or else your children will be swallowing lies about these wars. Your grandchildren will. Yet he probably doesn't know because most people don't go out and seek out. that information or question it. And I think, you know, this is the last thing I'll say on this. It's something that has said, hope is an illusion. And when people don't want to, when people

are willing to accept what is being told, when they have just an innate nature to trust the institutions that govern them, that reign over them, they allow hope and fear to control everything. And I think that I've said it before, one of my favorite quotes from Hunger Games, They talk about what's the best way to control people? And the guy says fear. And the leader goes, no, it's hope. And so when you're talking about the people celebrating with what's happening now, and like we said, we understand that.

It's this hope of what can be. And that is a way to control people. And I could also say that about the American people. It's this hope that we're going to get better. It's this hope that, oh, if we destroy this, then terrorism isn't something that we have to worry about. You have to defeat those things, that mindset, for people to get past this.

And I just don't know, at this point, with everything that's in your face, I just don't know how you do it. It's right there. You don't even have to try hard. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis,

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You can feel it at this point. Let's talk about entertainment. Donnie, let's talk about the NAACP Image Awards. Once again, we lost. Is that four or five straight time? As that four or five? Four? Susan Lucci.

The Buffalo Bills. This is the Buffalo Bills podcast. Shout out. Oh, shout out to Andre Reid, who I was hanging out with at the Spotify party. We're fucking legend. Andre Reid. You're welcome.

Andre, why are you welcome for what? You wouldn't have met them if it wasn't for me. I would have met who? Andre. Now here's the problem. And Teresa. I acknowledge Teresa as well. Shout out to Teresa.

Now here's a problem with that. And this is the problem. This is a rage thing here. It's a problem. So that party, how'd you get to that party? Layla, actually. Yeah, it's not true, okay? It's not true.

That's 100% true. It's not true, okay? So I get to Carl Cherry, invites us to the party. He didn't invite me. Okay. He invited you. All right, I was just saying, shout out to Carl Sherry. No, shout out to Carl, but he invited you to the party.

But anyways. Shout out to Andre Reid. Well, shout out to Rachel. and then because Rachel is responsible. All right. Look, NWACP Image Awards. We lost. That's okay.

Worthy winner this year, Don, the award show itself was beautiful. I just want to tell you right now, if you were on the red carpet of the NWACP awards, you look fantastic. Yeah, everybody looks stunning. I fucking saw Sean Dickerson out there. I did too.

Sean was out there. I fucking saw Sean Dickerson out there. Sean was like. Sean was like red carpet ready. I'm like, look at which red carpet you on? Awesome. Sean is white.

Sean was killing people on the red carpet of Black History Month. Sean Dickerson, have some shame. It looked like a fantastic event, evening, great production. People like stepped out, showed out. They looked amazing. So true. So I want to shout out the Image Awards

and the fact that after what happened to Mike Delroy at the Baptist, it seemed like a room. That's what we do. Where everyone was just rallying around and making us feel safe. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Safe space. A safe space.

A safe space to celebrate each other. But that's how it should be. That's what we do to each other. For good or bad. Do you know what is one of the most revolutionary things? What? Black people celebrating each other. that you want to talk about something that's destabilizing we think black hate is the most

destabilizing thing like we think that that makes our communities unsafe we think that that's the thing that is really you hear it all the time we can't never get along we can't be unified that is a problem that the the black community addresses or whatever actually Actually, you know what? I don't even want to do that. The most destabilizing thing to the American status quo is black love. Black unity. Black people uniting in love and appreciation. And it's not even political love.

It's not even love of this. It's not the type of thing that people think. I'm just talking about you making space for a, another black person because they're black. We're going to talk to Jeff and Nicole later on and that's the question you always get. Why does it have to be black? Why does it have to be black? It has to be black because black equals love to me.

That is hated because at the root of that is an understanding that when you're in a room like what's happening at the NAACP Awards, that that's where you're supposed to be. I, the feeling is almost indescribable because remember when we went the first year that we were nominated and we couldn't even sit in our seats because. Okay, now. What? Can I? Okay. Go for.

No. No, no, no, no. It's like, you know, it's tough. That was a tough. Okay. But let's turn it to positive. We couldn't, we couldn't even. sit in our seats because we kept seeing, I mean, you saw people you hadn't seen in years. We're in

the lobby and it truly was this family reunion of just like, oh, congratulations, I'm so proud of you. Oh, I've been watching you from afar. Oh, you know me? Oh, you know this part? Like, it just, we stood out there pretty much the whole time and it just, the group just got bigger and bigger and bigger. There is this warmth. It's like it's I almost said deeper than love and I don't know if that's really the case, but there is just like something you feel in your bones and it's just this, that it feels so good of when we're all together and it's, it's just about being black. I'm so, I just like don't know how else it describe it other than being black because constantly we're in these spaces where there might be one of us or a few of us and we kind of

come together in the midst of a bunch of non- blacks. But for it to just be all black, it's just a different feeling. I guess, is this how white people feel all the time in their spaces? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe stop trading. But it's, it's a beautiful experience. And that was a beautiful experience, you know, that was a fantastic experience.

You know, it was amazing going to the awards that year. there's like let's say that you had gone to the awards and they had told you to walk the carpet and then you were like made to wait in the car for an hour and then the carpet was over you know that's not what happened right then you couldn't get to the seat and then you stood in the lobby the whole time and just commiserated with people it would still because of the love in the lobby area that's what happened to me no you couldn't your COVID test kept messing up you don't remember that It was pouring down rain. That's what happened to me.

I don't know what happened to you. I waited for you. I don't know. I could have made the carpet. I don't know. You should have gone. Like, I don't know.

No, because I was with the ex and I wanted more black people around me with the carpet. What I'm saying is that could have been the whole. But even in that, I saw that, I don't make cave on stage that night. Even in that,

it was still great. Okay. Something else interesting happened. This is very interesting in terms of the Oscar race and you're watching all that. Explain this to me. I am, but explain this to me. Okay. Oscar time. Oscar time. Like, and by that I mean, before you get it to the weeds of it, of like, there's a system or kind of like a prediction of if this award comes to you or you win this one, then maybe that means it's a prediction for this. I'm not as in tune and I bet most of the audience isn't as well. So could you could please explain that with the

importance of the sag afters and everything last night? Okay. So, uh, my, Michael B. Jordan won Best Performance by a male actor in a leading role at the actor awards. Donnie put in the audio of how ecstatic Viola Davis is to give him this award. And the actor goes to, you are shining herald of Michael B. Jordan. Okay. Now, for people who don't know, the Oscars are the big dog. They come at the end of the award season. But before the Oscars, there are precursor awards. These are awards at other, I don't I want to say lesser, but other awards ceremony. You have the sags, you have the Baptist,

you have obviously the Golden Globes. You have all kinds of award shows that happened before the Oscars. There are ways to predict who is going to win an Academy Award based upon how these precursor awards go. There are ways to predict it. There are voting overlaps and who's voting for these awards.

Okay. there's history that helps you predict it, meaning this person won this award show, this award show, if you win this one, you have this amount of a chance based upon just raw numbers, things that have happened in the past. So Michael B. Jordan won last night for Best Actor. Being that he won, he got put in a rare class. I think it's 24 out of 31 actors, male actors,

male actors who have won the SAG Award go on to win the Academy Award. Oh, wow. Okay. So that doesn't mean that it's a shoe in for him. But what it does mean is that he won in a surprise. People didn't think he was going to win. What does it say about Timothy Shalamey, who was the runaway favorite for his performance in the intense and nihilistic

Marty Supreme? Still haven't seen it. So a lot of people are saying, because Mike won the SAG, then that means that he is now the favorite to win the Oscar. And that's just not me saying that. USA Today put out new predictions based upon the results of the SAG Awards. And now they have Michael B. Jordan in the poll position to win best actor.

They also change some other things. Amy Madigan for weapons. won the SAG Award. There had been a little back and forth before this. Tiana Taylor was a strong player in the best supporting actress category. When Musaku won the BAFTA for Senors, Amy Madigan wins. Now you're looking at some of these prediction sites.

They have her as the favorite to win the best supporting actress Academy Award. This is a shock. I think it's exciting. People are now wondering how strong. will sinners be win the Academy Awards happen in a couple of weeks? For me,

I like it. I don't want to go in, you know, it's like watching a game, you know, I don't want a sporting event. I don't want to feel like it's going to be so obvious

who's going to win. I think that this is going to make the awards very much more exciting. And I also think that it speaks to how great these performances are for these movies in these movies. Who might say? I haven't seen all of them yet.

So let me bring a little history into this. And it's specifically about Timothy Shalame. This is not diss at Timothy Shalame because a lot of people think that there's some problem with Shalame that I have. I think Timothy Shalami is fantastic. I love Dune. June's so good.

I love Call Me By Your Name. Bernard went, oh, you like that. What does that mean, Bernard? What does that mean, Bernard? What does it mean that I love that movie? Love it. Like love it.

Sometimes just put that bitch on. What are you trying to say, Bernard? Bernard said put your glasses back on. Check yourself, Bernard. Whatever's going on with you, check that. Bernard said, put them back on. All right. 2002.

Okay. Movie came out the year before. It's called A Beautiful Mind. Have you seen it? Come on. Okay. You didn't see it. The movie stars Russell Crow.

I am familiar. Russell Crow. It gives a fantastic performance in the beautiful mind. like a career defining performance he had won the year before for Gladiator Fantastic

Great Now Gladiator is his crescendo as actor Big Huge movie Wins Best Picture y'all all that stuff Beautiful Mind comes out

People think Russell might double up Russell might be the fucking man He might get two in a row We're talking Tom Hanks type shit And he wins All the precursors even sad

one them all want them all here's the deal after the baptist I don't know if you want to sack Donnie looked that up after the Baptist Russell Crow

like assaulted a producer like did this come out that it happened before or he actually did it after the Baptist apparently Russell Crow wanted to do a poem

at the Baptist. He wanted to do a piece. He wanted to get up there. He did win sack, by the way. He did. He won sack? Okay. So he wanted to do a piece.

Okay. They didn't let him do it. He got pissed off and he raged at one of the producers. This started to make it around the town that was reported on. And when it was reported on, Russell Crowe ended up missing out on that Academy Award because of the bad press and everything that he was getting from that event. Denzel Washington then.

wins the best actor Academy Award for Training Day. So you're saying that Denzel Washington would not have. That's all I heard. That's all I heard. That's all I heard. That had Russell Crow not done that, he would have,

let me not say with almost certainty that he would have probably won that Academy Award. That Russell Crow would have probably, it's likely that Russell Crow would have won that Academy Award had Denzel, excuse me, had he not done what he did at the Baptist, right? It's not the only time that it happened. It happened another time.

I'm talking about the way people comport themselves, like changing people's opinion of them during the Oscar race. Oh, oh, girl. Who? From the musical, the musical in Netflix. Which one? Well, the musical Netflix that was all in Spanish. That, like, oh my gosh, what's the name with Zoe Saladanya?

Oh, you're talking about Zoe one. But the other woman. I'll tell you about a, what's it called? Amelia Perez The other woman was like a favorite And then tweets came out Or comments came out Never even

Never even Get the hell out of here They said no to you Yeah yeah yeah But it happened to me Not to me But it happened in my opinion To Eddie Murphy

Oscars Yeah I think What was the year Whatever the year Dreamgirls was Is this like 0708 2006 2006

I think that had Norbert not come out Why? This is not an original thought. Was there a lot of backlash about Norbit? This is not an original thought. Was there a lot of backlash? There was. So Eddie said, Eddie said, I love Norbit.

Norbert came out right after I got that Oscar nomination. There were articles like, how can he get an Oscar? He did this. There are two different movies. I think had Norbert not come out during that time that Eddie Murphy would have walked away with the best supporting actor Oscar for Dreamgirls.

I think Alan Alda won at that year. That's not fair. Okay, for Little Miss Sunshine. Donnie looked that up. I can't remember. I think Alan Alda won at that year. You're right. He did.

He did. So what I am saying is there is a chance that Timothy Shalameh, and the way he is salamane it up, is creating an, opening for Mike to win Mike for Michael B Jordan that's a dick ride I apologize for Michael B Jordan I apologize to you guys for Michael B Jordan to win the best actor Academy Award because I think that most people in the town I actually think the performance

of Michael B Jordan that smoke and stack is a revelation okay but I think people like Michael B. Jordan. I think people love Michael B. Jordan. Look at the response when he won the other night. I think that Michael B. Jordan, in addition to hitting his apex right here as a performer in this movie, is also someone that people can root for. They can get behind. And Timothy Chalemay sometimes makes himself very hard to rule for.

He makes himself very difficult to even stand sometimes. Do you still feel that way? I know that that was the talk at the beginning of award season, but I feel like he's toned it down and he's been, maybe somebody had similar thoughts to what you're saying and got in his ear, but I feel like he's not making as big of a splash as he was before. Or do you think that the damage is done? Because even during award season, it's not that he was,

it was the way that he was marketing for the movie, which was so close. when the movie was released, it was so close to award season, the start of it. He has. Is it the Kardashian connection? I don't know if that's a whole thing.

It could be, but I'm not sure. He has doubted back. But I just tell people all the time. Be yourself authentically. But if you make yourself hard to root for, people will choose not to root for you. And I'm not saying that this is necessarily true

with Timothy Chalameh. But what I am saying is that like, they're especially now and the voting is happening as we speak the Oscar voting started February 26th it goes through March 5th and this part of it just from experience

just to let you guys know this part of it doesn't have very much to do with meritocracy right I'm not drawing I'm not putting too much daylight in between the two performances because I honestly think what Mike did Michael B. Jordan

there's two dick rods I think what Michael That's actually probably three because I think I called him that before. I think what Michael B. Jordan did at Smoking Stack. I think it's a more dynamic performance than what happened in Marty Supreme. I think Marty Supreme is propelled forward by just the insane momentum of the film. The film has this ridiculously weird energy that only the safeties can produce. So if we just get into the performance, I think Mike had more to do.

I think he did it well. I think he's incredibly deserving of the best actor. Award. But I do think that Timothy Shalame, rubbing people the wrong way, is making people not want to vote for him or not want to see him hit this height in his career quite yet. They might make him white. Do you think that's fair? Yeah. And let me tell you why. People think that the Academy Awards are the NBA Finals. like you get out there you win they're not the academy awards are elected a homecoming king they're elected a homecoming queen to be elected homecoming king or homecoming queen you got

to do stuff really well you either got to be the number one throw the ball you know out there kind of deal or you got to be the most popular you got to do stuff you have to be good at what it is that you do in your high school to get elected that, right? You do. But it's still a popularity contest. It's still a contest based around how much people want to see you stand up there with the crown on your head. Yeah. It's why when we were to do red carpet interviews, it was like, the only time you're going to get this actor is during award season because they will do all the interviews. They will do all the schmoozing because, like you said, to your point. it's a popularity contest.

Yeah. I'm so excited now for the Oscars. You're making me even more excited to watch it, especially because I'm tapped in now. I'm going to watch Marty Supreme tonight. At this level, you have to do great work to get to this level. But then once you get to this level,

it starts to become about everything else. Watch out for centers, man. Watch out for Csons. We're going to see what else happens. All right. We didn't get a chance to talk about this last time. We got Jeff and Nicole Friday coming up. Mm-hmm.

Donnie, do D in, do the letter D in entertainment. All right. Jonathan Majors, he's got a new film coming out. Well, not yet. He's shooting it. He's shooting his first movie in four years. Cameras are going to roll in South Carolina for an untitled film that is from the Daily Wire and Bonfire legend. So the Daily Wire means that the film is going to be produced by the Daily Wires, Ben Shapiro.

and Dallas Sanjay from Bonfire Legend. Yeah, he's working. So he's back with the Daily Wire. Some people are upset. A lot of people are upset. They're very upset. I did see really,

maybe a couple of things in his favor. A lot of people are bothered by this. Ben Shapiro, Daily Wire, Daily Wire Plus, are not strangers to working in production and have worked with some other controversial people as well. One of them being Army Hammer. The other one being, which we know Army Hammer was accused of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse by multiple women. It's a fucking cannibal of some sort of reportedly.

By multiple women. By multiple women. And The Daily Wire has worked with him. Then you have the Mandalorian, former Mandalorian star. Gina Carano. She's fired from Disney. they've worked with her as well and now you have Jonathan Majors

I'm going to say I hate this I hate that Jonathan is in this position for multiple reasons right I don't need to go back and talk about what everything that went down not just what he was accused of but what he was also convicted of but I understand

the outrage by people in regards to aligning yourself with not just Ben Shapiro and we know the things that he represents, which are, you know, anti-LGBQ plus, anti-Black can be anti-women at times. I mean, the things that he has, he doesn't believe in systemic racism. He believes that white people are being discriminated against. He's anti-BLM. You always talk about what he does with Trayvon Martin on his birthday.

I mean, there's so many things that are critical and detrimental that Ben Chapparel does. to the black community. So it's the alignment with Daily Wire and what it represents and Ben Shapiro that I am like, I understand. I actually don't believe in the canceling of Jonathan Majors and I understand that I feel like he should have an opportunity to work, but this is not the way to do it. Because I feel like you're choosing Elaine when it comes to aligning yourself with this company and the other people that they've aligned themselves with. And I think that this almost makes it worse for you. A couple of things here.

Number one, this is a strategy by Ben Shapiro on the Daily Wire. Of course. To get, well, I'm just overall, John the Major's being one thing, but overall, Ben Shapiro started out, if I'm correct, as a screenwriter wanting to be a screenwriter,

wanting to get into Hollywood a more traditional way. The Daily Wire is right now experiencing a lot of strife. The Daily Wire's relevance in conservative media, don't get me wrong, the Daily Wire is fucking gigantic, guys. Ben Shapiro remains one of the most consequential voices

in American politics. It's true. However, things on the right are changing. The Daily Wire is under attack from inside its own political, coalition. It's been happening for a while. Candice Owens left the Daily Wire some time ago. She is now back and forth of Ben Shapiro all the time.

The Daily Wire represents a more 2020, 21, 22 version of MAGA rightism, conservatism. So they are doing a lot of things outside of the regular sort of political fare that they invest into. They've been producing movies and doing stuff like this for a while. Sometimes you watch the other shows and you go, hey, the pin dragons by the Daily Wire. What the fuck is that?

And it pops up and it's an ad on something that you're watching or they're trying to do like a show or something like TV shows and podcasts, whatever. So they're producing stuff. So you have the fact that the Daily Wire is trying to get out of being specifically political and make more inroads into American mainstream culture. People watch movies. They want to be a part of the conversation about what people are watching if they are not going to watch Bench-Cirlo long form

on YouTube or wherever else. They're not going to watch you there. They want to see their ideas through other stuff in other places. That's a direct goal and objective of the Daily Wire right now. I say that to say that when you do a Daily Wire movie, you are part of a political endeavor. People say all the time,

they say, hey, like, what's the difference is racist producing movies in Hollywood? There's a difference between a producer on a movie being a racist and the clan producing a movie. Y'all with me? There's a difference between having somebody with bad politics make a show, but having that show being made by

the neo-Nazis, the NRA, or whatever else, that's totally different because that goes from being a movie with somebody on there that you might disagree with politically or who is racist to being a piece of propaganda coming from a political organization and institution. Those two things have different goals, or at least we think they do or they should. Yeah.

All of that's true. Last thing I'll say about before we move on is this. The right is doing. doing something very direct right now. They are taking broken cultural toys from our culture and they're saying we'll repair them. So when you throw one of your toys away, make sure you don't want it no more. So when you say, hey, you're not good enough to be in our culture.

What you did was too much. You said this, you did this, you did this. When you throw one of those toys away, just make sure you don't want it no more. Make sure you don't want the toy. because what will happen is you'll fuck up and that person will be on stage at Turning Point USA and then you're going to fill away. Now I'm not saying that you should care

about the person or the toy. I'm not saying that. But what I'm saying is that if you are the Daily Wire, they also put homie from they put homie from Shazam. What's his name? Oh, Zachary.

Zachary Levi. So if you are the Daily Wire, you don't have the pick of the Hollywood litter to put in your movies. Like, even Chris Pratt, who we know is all kinds of fucked up, I don't think Chris Pratt is going to be in Sound of Freedom Four, freedom fights back.

Okay. Like, Chris Pratt can do all the shit that he want. Chris Pratt, if you're that conservative, I need you to be in left behind seven the Tribulation Force returns. Because you're eating around the edges of it. Fuck it, Chris Pratt. fireproof six

we back on fire I need you to do that if you really about what you're talking about but they like but they but but they not go Passion of the Christ 13 starring Chris Pratt and Gina Corano Jesus and Mary come back I need you I need you guys

to understand that those types of that type of talent is not going to do a daily wire movie is not so the type of talent that they're going to get are people who are visible visible, but politically and culturally unstable. And what I mean by that is like not politically unstable, culturally unstable, meaning they're still consequential enough to be famous to people,

but those people that they are famous to might not want to see them in movies. And I know for certain, for certain, for 100% that there are movies and projects that Jonathan Majors was close to that ended up falling through because after what happened, not after the Daily Wire thing,

but after everything that happened. Like there were, even after this, there were people that wanted to put Jonathan Majors in movies that couldn't put Jonathan Majors in movies because people are not greenlighting movies or funding movies with Jonathan Majors in them. Right?

So I say all that to say that, I understand that people are mad, but short of telling him to go to firefighter school or short of telling him to go to dental school what is he supposed to do? Like it's like I'm not saying that he should have done this. I'm not saying this at all, but I'm saying actors act.

And in a situation like this, if you can't work anywhere, can he be behind the camera? I don't know. Well, I don't either. But I, I don't know what's out there. I'm telling people right now that I'm not asking people to tolerate anything that they don't feel like tolerating.

I'm not asking to do that. But what I am saying is once you've decided that you don't want to see somebody that they are out of your culture, out of your spectrum of things that you feel like once you've decided that, let them go. because somebody else, especially now, that's why I think talking, counsel, conversation, understanding, not asking anyone to do anything that I don't do, understanding all of these is very important.

It's very important to be able to invest into things into people that maybe we felt like we didn't need to anymore. Not all the time. They're definitely not all the time. Sure. But like in this particular, situation, I was actually surprised that some of the same people who have been calling for

the, um, I guess, Jonathan Majors to be kicked out into the wilderness as an actor, put out into the wilderness as an actor, were enraged when somebody called him in from the wilderness. Oh, really? I thought, I was surprised that those people gave a fuck. I guess, I guess my question would be, well, what is it? do they specifically care about? Do they care that he's making movies again? Or do they care because he's aligning himself

with the Daily Wire Empire? Because I think that those two are two separate things, right? Which, you know, I mean, I already spoke my piece about it, but I think that it's the alignment of being, and what you did too, of being with Ben Shapiro and that company, that stands for something else. And I think that you are pretty much choosing your lane. Like, I think that's it.

I don't like if there was ever an opportunity to come back I think that you ended it by by doing this movie that is the best point the best point is we need to learn more understand more but in the grand scheme of things keep trying to tell people in the grand scheme of things being up on that stage attorney point USA being at that halftime show or when Bad Bunny is on the other channel, when Bad Bunny is on the other channel and you on that halftime show or doing these types of films, you're saying something about where you are right now and it's not something that I,

politics being what they are, but also, man, it's you and Keir Rock now. And so you're putting yourself on a certain tier. So I don't like is what okay before we get out of here Here's our interview with Jeff and Nicole Friday The founders of ABFF We'll run the interview running. Big milestone

It is the 30th anniversary Wow Of the American Black Film Festival That's May 27th through 31st 2026 And we have two trailblazers Two very important people here Jeff and Nicole Friday are joining us on Highland

How y'all doing? We're doing well. Happy to have you. Happy to have you. And your new home. Yes. Looking lovely to be here. It's a lot of fun being in a new spot.

It looks new. It smells new. Now, Nicole, you are the president co-founder of Nice Crowd, a premier entertainment company that produces premium live experiences. So it's more than the festival. It's the American Black Film Festival. It's ABFF honors, which we were invited to this year. We did not make it.

And let me tell you something. Let me just be honest with you. Y'all missed out. I don't get phone mom. I don't get phone mom. I don't get phone mom. I do not get phone mom. I had a little phone mom.

It deserved a little foam on. No, he like hit me up immediately. Next time we just, you know, things around here trying to get in this new studio kind of got to us. But it is a special American Black Film Festival this year. I will be attending. I will be there. This one is a special one. We talked a little bit about it before.

got on air why is this version and vision of ABFF different than past ones and we should just say the tradition of this film festival is tremendous so many films have come through there so many creatives so many actors a lot of people the first time that they were able to get their movie screen the first time that they were able to form community in filmmaking not black filmmaking culture which was what we're talking about i'm talking about getting their footing in filmmaking was that ABFF, but this one's special. Why? You know, 30 years ago when we started, I didn't have like a vision for it.

I went to Sundance and I just saw white guys having a great time. And so I like to tell this story because it's true. And I was like, we're the black folks and why don't the, why doesn't the festival represent the audience? So we just, as a hobby, I was working in advertising New York. My boss and I, you know, Byron & Lewis and Warrington Hutland filmmaker, we decided to just try the black version of Sundance. It's Acapulco, Mexico, and then successes started to happen.

People like Will Packer came through and, you know, got his first movie. Ryan Cougar came through later on in East of the... So it's special because this is the homecoming. This 30th year, three decades of anything, real hard. You know, God willing, you all be at three decades at some point. But, you know, it's just a hard thing, dude. And we're just asking everybody to come back and help us celebrate. the successes we've had as a community.

And we haven't done this alone. A lot of people show up for us, bro. You know, every time we throw the award show, a festival, the whole community comes out. So I really do consider this a community victory. We criticize black people a lot about not supporting each other and not showing up for each other. And I'm gonna stay critical of that

because I think it's important we keep our hand on the meal on that one. But yeah, it's just a big year. And we just wanna celebrate all the successes. Was there a moment, because like you talk about Sundance and you tell the story, and you realize that there was a gap

and you knew that it was something that you wanted to feel. I guess over the 30 years, like when did you realize, is there a moment that you knew that you were truly shifting the culture with what you're doing? That's a great question. That moment for me, I'll let you speak yourself, but that moment for me happens all the time.

Like every time someone calls me, you know, it's not the, you know, Ryan's probably the most prominent person that we talk about now, but I don't wanna focus that on him. Like people call me all the time, you know, I just got a job. You know, so it's not a,

about Star Pal, it's about those career level changes for people that have me. So every time we go, why are we doing this? So we have, every year, we go, why are we doing this again? And there are moments. This is hard because we're paying for this ourselves. Like people don't know the economic challenges of doing something as a black entrepreneur. This is a black-owned business, just us. We had the first, the last decision is made in our bedroom sometimes. You know what I'm saying but the the calls we get the gratitude we get from people for me personally is what makes me keep going out yeah no I would say the same I don't know that there's any one moment or time that has happened but certainly I'd say all the times there's so many and they're endless and when we see

the fruits of our labor with the successes that people are having we understand that that's why and the things that they say about us and they remember us and when they reach back for others to bring them forward. Those are the reasons why we continue to do what we do. But one watershed, I just want to say if I, if I made, one watershed moment for me was like back in 2000 or so, 1999 or 2000. And I won't say the publication because I don't want to pick fights. But woman from a major industry publication, I was doing an interview. She says, Jeff, never forget. She goes, why do you need a black film festival anyway? Just like that. And out my mouth came because Holly wouldn't.

When I said that, I said that, I thought, wow, okay. Like God sent me that response. And it was non-combative, it was sharp, it was poignant, and she said, okay. And so I was an advertisement. So I went back to my office and I wrote,

because Holly wouldn't, put that apostrophe after the end in between the end and the T. And that really became the mantra like, yeah, we're doing it because Hollywood. We're not going to sit around and wait for Hollywood to validate us and pay us and connect us and celebrate us,

we're going to do it ourselves. So that really, if there was one moment where it just triggered, like, well, you know, we're going to do this for real. That was that moment. Say more, though. Say more about the specific utility of a black film festival

or the specific utility of a black cultural engine inside of the town. Like film festival to award show, to, you know, I went to the Afghas, to black critics associations, speak to the specific person. of that. Yeah, I did a piece that just ran a couple of days ago a variety called Safe Spaces. And I truly do believe that we have to be mindful of not just getting carted around to mainstream stuff. You know, I hate what happened to Michael B. and Brother Delroy, but we got to be very careful that we don't get exploited these things by just picking the most famous black people and putting them on stage and saying that we're inclusive. And I just think that we have to go to places where we're celebrated. We does, those artists, that we're talking, they deserve to be loved on.

And beyond the showcase my film, the emotional connection that you get. People say this all the time, and I say Nicole, do they really mean this? When they go, this award, this black award is the most important, more important award than any award I've ever gotten. I always go, do you think they mean that?

Well, they don't. No, I'm not gonna say that. I hope, I'm gonna say, no, they don't. Wait a minute. They may not, but they should. that moment and so we're we're in the should business like we're trying to be like some point they're going to retire me right but we we want our legacy to be like those people love

black people like yeah I don't care about anything else and we've sacrificed wealth and all personal stuff we got kids and cows the whole thing but we just decide that we want folks to just know that we believed in them so go to all the global stages which is what I wrote in the opt-ed go to the globe globe the global stage is very important because it affects your your career trajectory. So that global stage is very important. You go do that too, but you've got to come to places. And I hope when you say, this is the most important award

because this is the award that my people gave, I hope you mean it a little bit. And I hope as you evolve intellectually and emotionally and in your career, that it starts to mean more. I actually believe that people have been in the industry the longest when they say that they're the most true about it. You've got a different opinion. Well, no, I think that it feels the best for sure,

because nothing feels like being in a room with people who understand exactly what you're trying to say. Absolutely. So like exactly what you're trying to say, exactly how you meant it, exactly why you did it. You don't have to explain this and all of that stuff. Nothing feels better,

especially culturally, than not having to explain yourself. It being the most important award, it's important for me to say that I don't think that they believe that because it could be. It could be the most important. It could be.

if it's invested into. If we culturally invest to the spaces where we are critical of our own art, have our own conversations, celebrate our own films, go to places where our films could be sold, if we invest into those places,

they will be more important, bar none, period. But the investment has to come from the top of the industry that we love, and it has to be also, there has to be a part of it, the bottom of the industry and the middle class of our industry also has to be

welcome in those spaces. So I don't think that they mean it. But I think that the next generation of this is having that conversation as tense as it gets and then getting to a point to where we can make these things more important. That's like a perfect segue because I was going to ask you guys, like what conversations do you think are having it or that we're having at ABFF now that maybe we weren't having 10 or 15 years ago? Is it that conversation? Is it other ones? Yeah, I think that the conversations are probably more real, you know, and it's not because we're not, we're not trying to break open doors anymore. We've broken open the door, but how do we sustain it? And I think the conversations are really centered around

sustainability. And, you know, some of the conversations, did you? Did you? guys have quite frankly you know when you're accepted into these spaces and these places these other spaces and places you know how do you get them to recognize you as your talent versus your black talent or your black actor your black this how do you get them to recognize that and to respect that we talk a lot about the illusion of inclusion those are conversations that we have that's what we talk about all the time and and and and yeah the illusion of inclusion and it's really important that you

don't get caught up in that because it really is an illusion, you know, and understanding that if we had people who from the top down recognized what our value is and invested in that, then, I mean, the stratosphere, we would just take off. And those are the conversations. We talk about, you know, having a seat at the table and, you know, making those decisions, but how do we sustain it? How do you sustain it? How do you really impact it?

How do you do that? We're in. We're inside. We're in. We're there. But how do we shift it? How do we make real tangible decisions so that we don't get, you know, marginalized or we don't get, oh, that black show or that black this or that black something? I was watching something. I can't remember what I was watching. And they were saying, why does it have to be called black something? Oh, yeah. Why can it just be? What do y'all thoughts on that? Do you believe we've had conversations here on higher learning about whether or not something should be designated a black comedy,

a black love story, a black film festival. Why is it important for ABFF to be called ABFF? I think the black thing doesn't bother me. I understand it. I think black is only about marketing. If black film festival makes black people know it's for them, that's why it's in ABFFs. That's about marketing.

I'm a marketing person. But I don't like the idea that everything black's got to have black first. I think for the obvious, for the reason this upsets most people, it's about a way of marginalizing our work. We don't say black music. You know, rap is not black, and we don't talk about black fashion necessarily. We just, you know, certain things, for whatever reason, certain things the society has not adopted as mainstream.

And we've been trying to beat that drum about film all the time. Like, music is just music, but whatever. reason anytime you talk about film or television and I think it's because music you can consume without looking at it I'm not sure I have I've had a lot of conversations about why we like the OJs and we like Travis Scott and all those people are black but when we consume it we don't necessarily put them we put it in a category the Grammys right we put categories those are marketing categories but as people enjoyed and consume it they don't think about music as being black while they're consuming it but the second you go watch something that you actually see the

the people in live action, you have to put that label up to. So I'm, I've always been uncomfortable with it. I just think it's a marketing term. But I do want to say something about the reason behind the American Black film festival is because, like you said, back in 1997, when he first started this film festival, it was created for a space for us, but not a space that was excluding others, but a space for us because we simply were not being recognized in other space. basis. And so that was the reason behind it. And so we wanted to bring us to us, but also create

opportunities for us without excluding others. So it was never, you know, it's funny because we've been asked this, you know, well, we have this, you know, a non-black series that we want to bring to the festival and we want to bring the talent. Can we bring them? Yes. We believe in diversity, equity, and inclusion. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. What do you want the next 30 years to look like? I would like, Van, you said something about cultural investment. I don't think cultural investment's enough because I'm not quite sure what that really is, right?

Like one of the things that disrupts me, I'll say, is when people say they do something for the culture. How do what that means? Like, I made this record for the culture. And I want to just go, if what you do only benefits you, is it for the culture? is just for you. It is culture just a vibe. I'm back to market. It's culture just a brand. So for me, cultural investment is not enough. In order for ABFF and other events like this, some of these events that aren't black owned, so let's not get into that for now. But we have to make financial investment. It's more than just cultural investment. Like we talk

about seat at the table. We built the table and then we're not sitting at it. We're sitting in the back row. So I think beyond cultural investment, I think that we need to make financial investments because money rules the world that I live in, right? And I like to see more people get involved. You asked me, what would you like to see for the next 30 years? The answer is I would like for more people to get involved. What can I do to help? It's a cheat code for life. We teach our sons when they were five. You want people to gravitate towards you. You know what you say to them when you meet them? Hello, Miss Lindsay. What can I do to help? It's a cheat code. people will flock to you like honey and bees, right?

Because you're offering versus asking for something. So we would love, we fantasize at night about people, our people, going, wow, they really have been doing this for a long time. Not alone, but kind of sort of the risk alone. Right? And we fantasize about, yeah, somebody calms up and goes, yeah, what can I do to help Fridays? And let's make this the most, let's make this bigger and better than, Tribeca and we have to power to do that.

We make everything cooler about that, everything. And the greatest gift I got in life when I was like 10, I realized how dope blackness was. People are, what drives you? I get it. Like for some reason, that thing that's over half of us, that cloud that we don't see ourselves, man, I got that when I was like nine or 10 years old.

I'm completely convinced we're the greatest. And ain't just basketball and dunking and dancing. And we do everything better than everybody else. What was the moment at 10 that had? Because when you said it, it made me think of the moment for me. This is super old school, but I remember, I remember watching, I don't want to pick him. Rachel was 27. You'll be a little later?

I remember watching those old TV shows. I don't want to pick on people. But like the good times of the worlds, I just hated those shows, man. I love the actors. I love John Amos and Estenol. I revered them, but I had. hate the fact that non-black people wrote those stories and they only saw us, you know, you talk about this all the time.

Yeah. Oh, God. I mean, we should say that on those shows, there was the Norman Lears and the people like that that were ahead of those shows, but there were people, including Esterol and John Amos, who were trying to craft what they thought was a realistic vision of a black man. Right. But at the end of the day, those shows were not run and driven by black storytellers.

Okay. And so that's when it hit me. I just started to believe that we were better than this. And, you know, I got it then. I understood what was happening to us as a 10-year-old. And I always wanted to find something. Really, I was in advertising. You know, I always wanted to find something

that allowed me to change the game. And then when this whole festival thing happened and Nicole joined me right, I was like, oh, Eureka, like this is the moment where I could be a part of the solution. You're the part of the problem, you're part of the problem, nothing else. Right?

And so this is our attempt to be a part of solution. And not even because people say, you guys love movies. They're cool. A lot. No, I love black people. I love success. I love empowerment. I love when black women smile.

Like, y'all smiling. Like, ooh, y'all smiling. Like, I love this. Right? I know, I'm with it. I love black intelligent men. I love you. I love you, too, my brother.

We've had conversations and reached out. You've been a supporter. Everyone loves you as well. You're really well liked and regarded around the town specifically because you've created something and put your money where your mouth is. I want to get back to something that you said a second ago, you said culture and then you talked about how can I help?

To me, culture is why you help. So I am completely uninterested in being a unique success story from South Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in it at all. I think that if they're not more success stories that come from where I'm from, then part of what I'm doing is bereft.

And so I look at what's happening here with the film festival from two lenses. One, the business lens like you're saying, and then the artistic lens. Yo, these stories matter. It's somewhere right now, somebody who, the only way they can really figure out a way to tell the world about what's going going on with them is through story, it's through film. There's somebody else somewhere that doesn't even want to tell this story. This story is white, right? Like, I realized my uncle couldn't read.

I was six years old, and my daddy said that's because they don't teach black men how to read. I was like, why wouldn't they teach black men how to read? And he told me about the educational disparities between slaves and all of this stuff. And I'm like, yo, we're living in a... For some people, you get deeper into the actual reality of your world. For some people, you go, I want to tell a story on another. planet. Right. I want to go to another time. I want to go 150,

200 years into the future. I want to go a thousand years into the past. But the meaningfulness of that to me is that I'm attempting to connect with other human beings through narrative. That is just insanely important. And that's what I say. When I was

at ABFF, I met all of these people that were desperate to tell their story. Black people from Canada, New York, all. Just desperate for people to see what they are working on. And I think it is not unfair to ask the people that have succeeded at that to care about the people that are coming behind them.

And I'm not saying that they don't, by the way, because for the most part, the people that I know do, right? But if we're saying it's the 30-year anniversary and we putting the signal in the sky, the ABFS signal on the side, come home, be a part of it, go to the parties, take the pictures, listen to the people that want, like, I think that is,

I think culture is a beautiful thing. It's a celebration, but it's also an obligation. There's no such thing as a culture that doesn't have obligation. So I think it's okay to like, to ask for that. I think it's okay for y'all to say right now, come to our film festival or you're a coon.

No, I'm just joking. They would never say that. This is actually the last question for me. what are you guys building out? Like you've already got the foundation of ABFF. ABFF honors, which is a relatively as a newer thing, right? The last 10 years.

10 years. Okay. But like when I saw that and particularly the last, I think, X amount of years I've looked at it, it is hitting this artistic and cultural crescendo. Like you guys are building. Like what else are you building out? We're talking about the pop and all got to the end.

Yeah, I do want to say one thing. I want to back up for one second because you mentioned, you know, people coming and just to the festival for the 30th anniversary and, you know, stories, everyone has stories. And the amount of submissions that we receive is insane. Yes, everyone has a story. And there's so many talented, incredible filmmakers out here. And coming to the festival, not only is a story, festival not only is about telling your story, but it's also about the power of gathering. And when you come together and you're able to share stories and able to share desires and

aspirations and all of those things, there's incredible power in that. And so it is a place that everyone should come to. The newcomers, the old comers, come and celebrate with us, come and be there with us, come and give back to us and to others. It's really important, I think, to do that. So I just wanted to say that about that. In terms of what we're building out, yes, ABFF honors is an incredible award ceremony that we have been doing for 10 years. The newest thing that we're doing is called our ABFF pop-up, which is a four-city national tour, which we launched last year. We took a little bit of the festival in Miami and brought it to cities near you. So last year we went to New York and Atlanta, Dallas, and we ended here in Los Angeles.

We will be kicking off our next installment of the series of the tour, rather, this fall. And we're also in London. Oh. And going to Joe Bird. And going to Joe Bird. That's the plan. So we're in London. We've done London, what, seven years now?

London, seven years. Maybe people don't know about this. It's great we talk about it. It takes a little time for things to catch on, though. It does. London's six years, I think, six or seven. And then Joe Byrd would be the first year this year. I see what y'all doing.

Yeah. Y'all just putting this stuff all the places y'all want to go. Business trips, right? That's the expansion. That's the expansion idea. But yeah, so it's, I mean, we take the best of ABFF on the road with us, panels, screenings, conversations, all sorts of things. And people, it's been well received and people are really excited about it.

And lastly, distribution is on our, is on our, is on the radar for us too. Oh, now we talk right so we get two or three thousand submissions everyone has in fact Nicole came up this tagline everyone has a story yours belongs here so that's our tagline right and so next you'll be talking about distribution we've got plans for a label and film and TV distribution under the ABFF back to marketing under the ABFF banner so we're trying to take over the world you know so this is kind of the 30s kind of like we graduate and undergrad now we're going to grad school. It took us 30 years to graduate. But you graduated. I took my brother the same amount.

We just get through undergrad. So now we're on the way to grad school, I guess. Yeah. Okay. Ray, you got anything else? I was just going to ask a quick question. Angela Bassett, she was honored this year. And in her acceptance speech, she talked about AI and the regression of DEI and where do black creatives fit in that? What would be your response to that? Like, and maybe is this something you guys will talk about in May? Yeah, we're going to talk about, we have a whole track on AI. I don't think that black people in this space are most vulnerable to everything to any kind of change. So I don't think AI is specifically targeting black creatives. I think AI is going to affect creatives across the board in general. So I don't think this is a situation where race is really what's the driver.

We're vulnerable. You know, we get paid to late, the least, and we got the fewest amount of So if AI took one job, then might be half of our jobs gone. Versus if we had a thousand, that'd be one tenth or one thousandth, whatever. But I don't see that. I don't think that. The DIA's conversations are very different. I mean, the thing that really, really bothers me is like, we're black movies going.

Back in the 90s, we had Love Jones and Towsella got a groove back, and all the Spike and John Singleton stuff. And we don't even have black African American movies. American movies. Because I make a distinction between black and African-American. Those movies were about the African-American experience. Soulful, George, you know. And so I'm most concerned how DEI and the studio shift away from black content,

other than streaming, is affecting us culturally. Like, when's the last time you went to Ryan just hit with Sinners? One of my favorite movies ever. But where's the last time we really went out like we used to go out to see the movies in the late 90s? Like, when's the last time you went out with your girlfriends or your guys and just went to a movie? I think that that's more at risk. Like, movies are being removed. Movies combined with the power of gathering, that communal experience that you have in the theater with your friends and your, that's disappearing like crazy.

We want to bring that back. That's part of where we're going to focus. We want to bring movies back to theaters and black people back into the field. Jeff and Nicole Friday, thank you for joining us on Higher Learning. Before we get out, though, information dump. Tell people where they go to register, what it is that they do, the weekend itself, anything that anyone would want to or need to know about ABFF, just give it to them right now. Well, if you're into gathering with folks that are like-minded, want to see some incredible films,

want to hear some incredible conversations, go to ABFF.com. The festival is in Miami 30th anniversary, May 27 to the 31st, 2026. And it's for everybody. You do not have to have a project. Please don't ask me that again. Don't have to have. In fact, if you don't have a project, it's more reason to come.

Because how many people have gotten projects from just being in the space? You have to trust the process. You cannot be at home and say, I want to be a filmmaker. If you don't go to events like this, you don't really serious about what? You're kind of lying to yourself.

So come regardless of whether you have a project, meet people, bring your cards, It's what we do. But we're doing it for the community. And it's not very industry. You've been there. It's not industry at all. It's kind of industry, but it's about people.

I mean, it's industry insofar as it's actors and producers and directors there. But the air of that, it's not that. It was like a family reunion. It was like we, it was the party at the beginning, the white, everybody looks so beautiful. The hotels are filled up. It's not like that at all. It's a homecoming. It's a homecoming.

Then you get the programming of the films. And you just get to see people that you've seen on TV and stuff like that. Like, I'm going to continue to remind people on up to the festival. Appreciate you. That I would be there and that it is a place that you should go. But it really is a good time. Thank you. Thank you for a good time, by the way.

Regina King is the ambassador this year. Oh, fantastic. So she'll be there. We love her. And she was with us early on. She was at the first one. Yeah. Really?

See? Homecoming. See? She's at the first one with us in 97. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business, Fast, Reliable, internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust

Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by Sweetgreen. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweet Green's new wraps have got you. Real ingredients? Zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aoli. Crumbled bacon. Corn salsa. 40 grams of protein. Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order.com. Mexico. We're in Acapulco, Mexico. Virginia was there. Fantastic. All right. Appreciate you guys.

Thank you guys. Thanks for having us. Appreciate it. Pleasure. Pleasure. All right, Rachel, I'm springing the topic on you before we got out of here. We got three minutes because I gotta go. Okay, I don't have time to be it, you know.

Oh, we'll go then. Come on. It is what it is. Come on. So, Luke Cornett, do you know who that is? Who? He's a basketball player. Luke who?

Luke Cornett, old Lukeie, lukey, dokey. Luke Cornet is mad. He's upset. What? Okay, so Luke Cornett plays for the Spurs. Sometimes Wemby not in the game. Okay. Actually, Wimby's not in the game a lot.

Okay. Everybody love Wembe. My man Ryan Davenport says that Wembe is something different. We've never seen it before once in a generation. We've seen 24 and 11 before in three blocks. We've seen it. Okay, Elijuan. Like, we've seen that before around the town.

like Wimby's great but I do think particularly here at the Ringer there's some Wimby dick riding that I don't really understand Wimby's great okay he's great he's doing fine but like I don't I really don't get it he van you don't understand he changes everything on defense Rob I do get it I love Rob Rob best posture in the whole world big Wimby fan big wimby guy okay so Lou Crenette plays for the spurs it was announced last week that the Hawks are doing Magic City Night.

What does that entail? They're going to celebrate Magic City. But like, what will that, a halftime show? I don't know. They're going to do whatever. Donnie, what does Magic City Night entail? What are they going to do? Looks like there is a halftime show.

T.I.'s performing. Oh. I guess you have the whole family out there doing their district. Yeah. So Magic City Night. The Tigger is always the MC there too. So I think there's like a they have like a whole thing going. Big Tigger is what? He's like emceeing.

He emcees there at the Hawks all the time. Oh, where. He's supposed to be like, yeah, having a big hand on the house. Shout out him. I saw Sway walking down the street before we got. I saw Sway. Oh yeah. We over here about series.

I was like, what's up? Sway. That's my man. That's another dick right. I didn't have done it. You all won right now. It's very upsetting. So they're doing Matt.

Luke Cornett said no. Luke Cornett said The NBA should This is what Luke Cornett Luke Cornett said fuck that shit Luke Cornett said he wrote an open letter to the league This Luke Cornett was so mad about

shaking ass That he wrote an open Letter to the league The NBA should desire to protect And esteem women Many of whom work diligently Every day to make this The Best Basketball League in the world

We should promote an atmosphere That is protective and respectful Of the daughters, wives, sisters, mothers and partners that we know and love. Allowing this night to go forward with our protests will reflect poorly on us

as an NBA community specifically in being complicit in the potential objectification and mistreatment of women in our society. Luke B. Anthony Cornett. Luke Bell Hooks, Cornett. Okay?

Luke said no to this. He said absolutely not. Fuck no. That halftime show is going to start. Luke's going to be right there tapped in. You think, Luke is. Look, right, he's got another letter. I was mistaken and I apologize.

Look, I appreciate Luke for wanting to step up and protect women. But this latter part of this letter, objectification and mistreatment of women, these are grown women who have made a choice to choose. First off, we don't even know what Magic City Night's going to look like. Like, I highly doubt they are really bringing Magic City into the arena. But these are women who have made a choice to do this career. that they would argue that they are not being mistreated. That's like they have the free will and the desire to do whatever they want and this is what they want to do. And I think that it takes away from the women who choose to do that.

There are women who find what they do inside of Magic City empowering because it's a choice that they have made and they are deciding, choosing to use their bodies and their talent however they want to do it. So thank you, Luke, but also no thank you. Yeah, shut the fuck up, Luke, Luke, this is a part... It's such a misconception about the strip club. What is the misconception? I mean, I'm just saying that like, like, as if these women are like forced into doing this. This is not black in the beauty, beauty in the black. Oh, shit.

I always mix up that title. Beauty in the black. Because that is beauty and black. Whatever. Have you started? No. No, I haven't started yet. I'm going to stop watching these movies.

I am going to watch it, though. So I got to tell Luke to shut the fuck up. But I wouldn't, you know, I shut the fuck up. Magic City is a staple in Atlanta. Magic City, Magic City might be the most famous entertainment venue in all of Atlanta. I'm not going to disagree with you. It could be. It's up there.

Okay. Here's the deal. Magic City Night. They're out there. Trip club culture is a part of Atlanta. When is March 16th? I hope this game is televised. So we can see.

Half-time show. Hey. Hey, Luke, we appreciate what you tried to do. We appreciate it, but shut the fuck up, Luke. To fuck out of here. Where's Luke from? Hold on, before I get out of here,

where's Luke from? Luke Cornett is from... Liberty. He went to Liberty. He went to Liberty Christian School? Liberty Christian School. Well, that's a high school. You know that school?

Well, there's a couple of liberties. There's one in Texas. which is what I was thinking of, outside of Dallas. Looks like there's one in Huntington Beach, too. Okay. So I'm not sure which one is his. I respect Luke. Looks like it's the Texas one, Argyll, Texas.

Argyll, Texas. So what does that mean? I used to play against them. Nothing. I'm just saying. You said that in a way. Why are you, you said that like, oh, he went to Liberty.

Like, what does that mean? I mean, what do you want me to say? It doesn't mean anything other than we used to beat that ass at basketball. I used to beat that ass. Luke go see some ass, brother. Big Ray, starting post. He's supposed to post up on him. I just don't understand.

I don't understand. It's true, though. It's so true. Boy, I'm going to call Deidre Spears. You know, Marketspeer's sister? Not personally, no. McKinley Legend. I'm going to call Deidre out here just to cook you just for fun.

Fine, man. Just to cook you for fun. Start and post. We had limited resources. I was scrappy. I told you this. You could guard. Do you still feel like you could guard Kailin Clark?

I respect you. game. I apologize. But not like to that I could have in my prime, you know, when I was around her age. Luke, shut up. That's out. That's it. We out. Thank you to Huss. Thank you to Jeff and Nicole. Thank you to everybody overseas that's putting their bodies on the line to protect this country. And thank you,

everybody inside that's putting their bodies on the stage to entertain this country. I'm not going to let them forget about you no matter what Rachel says. I'm not going to let them just not discuss what y'all got going on. No matter what Rachel says. Strawberry, al-Azay, all of y'all. Or just Crystal or Ashley. Like, stop. They don't be calling themselves that.

Sometimes. Sometimes, but that's not a good one. I talk to strippers of the strip club. That's not a good one. They love me. I have like full conversations. Yeah. Like ecstasy in Dallas.

All right. We're out of here. Oh, that's a terrible. That. What? No, it's not a great. You don't like that club? All the street.

They just shut down. Did we talk about this? They just shut down DGs. I think XEC is gone. I think XC in Dallas is gone. That's a legendary place. They always shut down. But DG's,

it's a stable. It's been like 20 plus years. Damn, that's crazy. Shout to Follies. Rest and peace, Follies. What about Follies night? That's about respect the dead. Shout out to Professor Huss joining us.

I said it. Did you say that? I think so. I think we're just rambling now, so we got to go. Yeah, we got to go. Then calls off. Stop Learning Van Lankton Jr.

I'm Rachel and Lindsay. You know,