Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Was 'WW84' Kind of Problematic? Plus: Hilaria Baldwin's Confession and Consequences of the N-word

Episode Date: December 29, 2020

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss Rachel’s previous recommendation of ‘WW84’ and why Van thinks the movie might be problematic (11:00). Then they talk about Hilary Baldwin’s recent confirmation that she was born in Boston, not Spain (30:00), and a fascinating story in the New York Times about a usage of the N-word (50:00) before giving a final ‘Bachelorette’ recap (1:17:00) and doing a year in review mailbag (1:25:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on and is I, Van Lately. It's me, Rachel Lindsay. Rachel. Van, happy holidays. We're back. Yeah, we're back.

Are you, I, did you have a good holiday? Let's get right to it. Not interested in the pleasantries right now. Talk to me. Not interested in the pleasantries. Had a good holiday. We did Chinese food for Christmas. Okay.

It was a three hour of wait for the Chinese food. Thanks. Speaking of food, Rach, I think it's time that we discuss with the audience just how fake you are.

I'm sorry, fake? Yeah, fake. Fake. You don't need to say multiple times. Frugezi. They heard you. Let's take a trip down

memory lane really quickly here, Thought Warriors. In the past, I brought up single delectable delight that I was thinking about having for my Christmas dinner, and that was called the Pizza Hut Triple Treat Box.

Once again, it is two, one topping pizza, plus mini cinnamon rolls and bread sticks. I was thinking to myself, guess what? Not going to have the traditional Christmas, so why would you have the traditional meal? Let's get the triple treat box. I brought this up. on the show. And Rachel's response to the triple tree box

was of utter disgust. Did you not, did you not react? No, look, you're laughing. You think it's funny. Did you not react with disgust to the triple tree box? I do. Okay. First of all, why?

Why did you react with disgust? Because I don't even remember what was discussing about the triple tree box to you. It just didn't sound like, I don't know, like a pleasant meal for Christmas Day. You were so excited about it. You went on and on about the cinnamon rolls, the breadsticks. We all know I'm not a big fan of cheese. It just didn't sound tasty to me.

Okay. So we went our separate ways. We did. Divergent opinions is what we do here. Yeah. Rachel seemingly anti-triple-tree box van. I was. at heart into the triple tree box.

We ended up actually not doing it because we decided to get the Chinese food. We haven't done the triple tree box yet. We will get to it. I'm a huge piece of a fan. We'll get to it. Imagine my surprise. When I look at my Instagram DMs

and I see Frugazi Lindsay, Rachel, enjoying a triple treat box, right? and then tagging me in it, talking about how delicious it was, give us the, take us down the fucking primrose path of how you actually got this triple tree box. You know, thank you for inviting me to do that.

I'd be more than happy to. So, as Van said, we win our separate ways. And a few days later, you know, I go to Dallas for Christmas. And to my surprise, there's a message in my inbox, my DMs from Pizza Hut, who I've communicated with before. nothing against Pizza Hut. And they say, we heard you were talking about the triple treat box on your podcast. We'd love to send it to you. Well, I'm not one to turn down free food. And I said, I'm there with my nephews, my sister, my brother-in-law. Brian hasn't come yet. I say,

that sounds delicious. What a treat. What a treat. They delivered it to Dallas initially told me they were out of the triple treat box. Then to my surprise, when the man delivered the food there, there was the triple treat box. I opened it. They threw in an extra one. We had pepperoni, cheese, and supreme. They threw in Supreme. And then we had the cinnamon rolls and the breadsticks.

My nephews were thrilled. I put a video of my nephew saying triple treat box. That's all he said for hours. I thought, you know what? I should share this message with my followers. And I should, I tagged you, Van. There was no secret because I needed to thank you. Thank you, Van, so much for introducing me to the,

triple treat box. And I did eat the pizza for all those who were trying to slide in my DM, say, Rachel, you know, you know you didn't eat it. Yes, I removed the cheese. Yes, I put the toppings back on and I ate the pizza. It was delicious. As were the cinnamon rolls. I'm glad that I could provide you this review van when you try it in a couple of weeks. Okay, so here's the thing. First of all, I'm glad that your nephew was able to enjoy the triple tree box. You know what I mean? Now he can stunt on the kids in his class. He can be like, you know what? He can be like, you know what? Yeah, whatever. Guess what?

You can't hang with me. I got pizza, motherfucker. So I was livid when I saw this. Then, I don't think my video was up longer than 15 seconds. Livid when I saw this, right? I immediately go to Twitter to complain, but guess what stopped me from complaining? When I get to Twitter, I see that there is unread DMs. in my DM account.

And when I go in there, guess who I have a DM waiting for from Pizza Hut. There you go. Pizza Hut said, can we deliver a triple tree box to you? I said, you know what? We're going to go a different way, but in a couple of weeks, it would be awesome if I could have the triple tree box.

They go, we might be sold out by then, but we would love to provide some stuff for you and your family. We are not being paid for this. Shout out to Pizza Hut. We're not. We're really not being paid for this. I've loved Pizza Hut my entire life. You know what? You know why I love Pizza Hut?

Why? I'll tell you how I love Pizza Hut. I like Pizza Hut because back in the day, they had the Booket program to where you would read a book and you would read books. You don't remember Booket? You don't remember Booket program? You would read a book. Vaguely.

And if you read enough books, you would get a personal pan pizza. And that kind of, Pizza Hut, know what they do. doing because they hook you early, you get the personal pan pizza when you read enough books. And it was like, a pizza had had a restaurant you can go in and sit down and the rest of them didn't have that and it smelled like pizza when you got in there, you know? I remember one time. What else would smell like? It was a true story. I remember one time I had a personal pan pizza.

Anytime I go to a basketball game, I get a personal pan pizza from Pizza Hut. I had a personal pan pizza, okay? And it was just me and my grandmother at the house. And so they were delivering the personal pan pizza, right? They were delivering it. And I knew that she would want some pizza. I didn't want to give her any. I'll be honest with you.

You got to say what you wanted. I'm sorry, Moma. I never forget. I'm sorry. This is a true story. I didn't want to give her any pizza. So the guy comes, I get the personal pan pizza. I shuffle quickly back to my room with the personal pan.

It's just me in there and the pizza. No TV. That lets you know I was being. being secretive. No TV in my room. So I'm just going to sit in there and eat a pizza and like read a newspaper or something. Like no pizza. Or a book so you can get your second one. Or a book, right? Or another book.

And I remember I heard some rustling around. And then I heard somebody walking down the hall. Van. Yo, what's up? Van. Can Mammo have a piece of pizza? Aw. I lied.

You said it was a whole car? I said I ate all the pizza. Worst thing. That might be the worst thing you've ever said on this podcast. Who paid for the pizza or was this the free book-in pizza? It was a bucket pizza. Okay. It was a bucket pizza, but it wasn't delivered by the pizza delivery guy.

It was delivered by the bucket people at the school who would then take the personal pan pizzas and bring them to your house. I made that up to my grandparents. mother later on in life, though. Like, I told her about it, too. She laughed. Like, I was like, maybe 19 or 20. I was like, I'm gonna order, you know, I would do Momo?

I'm gonna order some pizza for us right now. She was like, why? I was like, because I hear pizza from you when I was 11. This is a true story. You know she knew that already, though, right? Yeah, she knew you didn't want to share. She knows you. Yeah, she knew.

She knew. Of course, you know. I'm like, listen, Pizza Hut made a fan out of me. I mean, I do order their personal pan pizzas, like I said. But the hospitality. that they show to me and to you has turned me into a fan. And like you said,

the same QVC rage talking. Like this is just... Did it make any difference to you that you didn't deserve it? Not at all. I never thought that I didn't deserve it. Not one time. Matter of fact, I thought about you

when I took a bite into that mini cinnamon roll. It's these mini cinnamon rolls all put together with the glaze over it. I thought about you. I said, hmm. What are you? a good co-host I have to introduce me

into the triple treat box. Well, hopefully. You could have sent me one. You could have turned me into a fan. You could have sent me a triple treat box, but you didn't. You said you didn't want it. You didn't consent to the triple treat box. Pizza Hut still sent me one.

Pizza Hut is different than me. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying? Then no means no. It doesn't matter what it's about. All right. Let's take a quick break. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts.

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Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimfireradio.com. Oh, Rach, I have another bone to pick with you. Oh, gosh. Come on, Van. What is it?

Look, we've been, it's like, we got to get some shit off our chest. Well, I feel like you've been letting me buy for a few weeks now. You really haven't had a bone to pick with me in a while. So what is it? You said that Wonder Woman 1984 was a great movie. And I got to be honest with you, Wonder Woman 1984 is the worst shit that I've seen. By the way, I want to say something, this is with love.

Patty Jenkins, fantastic filmmaker. Galdi Godot, great. Chris Pine, great. Pedro Pascal. Amazing. Great. All of these people. with Kristen Wigg,

top flight creatives, all of them. They didn't try to make a bad movie. They really didn't. They really didn't. But guess what? They did. It is,

it was inexcusably awful. What did you like? I'm never in life listen to you. What did you like about the movie? In full disclosure, I fell asleep in the movie. I don't know what I'm. I know what I'm doing here.

I saw the beginning. I saw up until the part that she meets Kristen Wigg. It's too long. It's two and a half hours. Y'all know how I am with movies. I fell asleep. I watched the late at night. It was for work.

I woke up at the end. Wait. So, hold on for a second. I saw bits and pieces because I couldn't make sense as to why Chris Pine was with us again because I had fallen asleep. So I had to go and read on it. a little bit and fill in some of the pieces. So full disclosure,

I missed a good hour, 45 minutes of the movie. Well, the movie was 17 hours long. And from what I saw, from what I saw, it was good. Like, I am a fan of the

open, of the way the movie starts, just like the way the first one start. I love seeing the competition with the women. Mm-hmm. I felt asleep shortly thereafter. Yeah. You have to realize that.

You have to realize that. You have to realize that. You saw literally that part of the movie, they were offering four minutes free on HBO match prior to that. Oh, did they? You basically saw that. Yeah, you basically saw the preview portion of the movie. You saw nothing.

I thought Kristen Whig was funny. I, like, would doze off and wake up. I'd see, like, bits and pieces. She, I thought she did a good job. But I've been hearing similar things to what you're saying, that it wasn't that great. I need to go back and watch it. Do you know what I think it was?

Let me ask you this. When you watched the first one, did you have big expectations of what that movie was going to be? No, because at that point, D.C. hadn't, I can understand what you're saying. At that point, D.C. hadn't demonstrated that they could really make super amazing, coherent superhero movies in their universe. So I enjoyed Aquaman a lot. I enjoyed the first Wonder Woman movie a lot. I thought it was pretty spectacular. but I don't think the expectations were

were what kind of drugged this movie now. I really don't. I don't think it was necessarily the expectations. I think this is a poor film almost by any metric that you use. And I also think there are other parts of the film that are teetering on offensive.

Oh, I miss that part. Well, okay, so can't tell you a little bit about Diana Prince? Yeah. Okay, so Diana Prince, Diana of the Amazon's is a singularly fantastic and amazing hero. Right.

Who in D.C. is only rivaled in strength by Superman, Martian Man Hunter, some other characters. Wonder Woman is incredibly powerful. Like Wonder Woman is not a second-tier or third-tier hero. Wonder Woman is one of the big dogs of the Justice League. Okay. So I don't understand why.

Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. In both movies, it seems as if they're depowering her. Yes. I saw, again, these are things I did not understand because I had to go back and read it. The way they took her power away in this one, I understand what you're saying. Well, in the first one, the way they took her power away is, and it's also, in the first one, the way they took her power away is they introduced her into a new world, right?

So they introduced her into a new world, and she's struggling to make sense of the world. So because she's not as sure of herself, she is something less than what she is. She's figuring it all out. That's part of the hero's journey. You get all that, right? In the second movie, they very directly depower her as a result of a plot device, right? they don't really do that with the rest of the characters. And they also use her relationship with Steve Trevor,

Chris Pine's character, as a way to make her weaker. Whereas, I just got to be honest with you, with the male characters in these movies, their relationships to women only make them stronger and more human and more heroic. Really? I'm not well-versed in Marvel films, but there's never a point where the women, like they're blinded,

or, you know, something, women distract them from doing what it is that they want to do? I would give two counters to agree with racial. I agree with what you're saying, but just to bring up two other DC examples. The first one is Superman, not by a woman, but Kryptonite, obviously, is... No, no, no, no.

He gets deep power. I'm not talking about... Cryptonite is Superman's weakness. Sure. So that's a very... But I'm talking about in a relationship with a person. Okay, here's one other example. I think you're right over the broad scope of the film.

almost, but one example I would point to is in the Dark Night Rises. Batman is completely fooled by what's your name? The lead female. No, not Rachel. Taya House Gould. Yes, exactly.

But there's a difference. The difference is that he doesn't know who she is. So the reality is the difference, he doesn't know who she is. He thinks she's somebody different. Those relationships aren't That's not what we're talking about.

Sure. We're talking about a relate, like he, I'm not talking about somebody being double crossed, right? I'm talking about you know who somebody is, right? So in Justice League, in Justice League, Superman has been woken from the dead, right? And he's bad. He's evil. He's screwed up. He's, he doesn't trust the Justice League.

He doesn't, he's confused, right? And he's using his immense power against the rest of the Justice League. what gets Superman back to being the best that he can be, the best person that he can be, the sight of Lois Lane. The sight of Lois Lane in that movie reminds Superman that he's human, that he's a hero, that he's all of this. But Wonder Woman, every time Steve Trevor is around,

she starts fucking up. Like he has to teach her everything. He has to do it's really, the movie comes in from a weird male gays, and I don't know if they even know that they're doing it, but I was like, yo, she don't need him. She don't need him to teach her how to fly. She don't need, like, just Diana of themascar. Like, she don't need him.

Let me ask you this. How do they create a love story? Because what people talk the most about the Wonder Woman one and two, and they've announced that there's a three coming, is the chemistry and the love story between her and Steve Trevor. So if you take that away, then what is the movie? So I guess my question to you is, I get that you're saying that the same shit that everybody else does. But there has to be a love story. You can have a love story. Just don't make the, don't, you can have a love story, right? But don't make the, don't wrap up her identity in the love story itself. Now, by the way,

that's not something that's, that's like, unique to this movie. I got to say this because I was talking to another friend of mine about this. That's not unique to this movie. And that happens in other movies, right? In the Matrix, Neo doesn't figure out how to decode the Matrix until Trinity tells Neo that she loves him.

And up to that point, Neo's losing. Oh, she goes, oh, I love you. Neo understands meaning or something like that. And the next thing you know, Neo has decoded the Matrix and he can't be touched, right? So it's not like that doesn't happen in other movies. What I'm saying is, in this movie, they already did it. They did it in the last one when she goes, okay, love means this and now I can do anything. It's been 60 years or 40 years, whatever it's been, she has no identity of her own.

Like, we have to still see the world through her relaying it to Steve Trevor. It just, it doesn't make, it's like they don't want to let her loose. Let Wonder Woman cook. Let Wonder Woman cook, man. But she does cook. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, she does. I don't feel like he, I understand what you're saying.

And I wish I had more films to compare it to. but I do feel like you do see the essence of Wonder Woman. I don't think that he holds her back because I know what it is because I'm not comparing it to other movies, I can separate the two. So I see the love story

and then I see Wonder Woman and I can separate that. And maybe that's what Patty is trying to come across when she puts these movies together is that there is this love story but she is also Wonder Woman. And at the end of the day,

that love story doesn't hold her back from being Wonder Woman because spoiler alert, she has to make the sacrifice to let him go so she can do what she needs to do as Wonder Woman. So he doesn't hold her down, right? At the end of the day, she chooses to be Wonder Woman.

She would have easily beat everyone if she would have not been losing her powers because she wished him back. Well, where's the movie then? The same movie you make for all the rest of these months. When the hero has a penis, you don't have to, like when the hero has a penis, you don't have to do all that.

Like, it's like the same way. you make the movie for everybody else. I'm sitting there and like waiting for Wonder Woman to punch something and to do something crazy. And by the way, it's cool to have him. First of all, I don't even like the fact. I don't even like the fact that she's still waiting on the same guy after this long.

She's not waiting on him. You mean to tell me Wonder Woman didn't get any dick in the 60s? They didn't say that. They didn't say that. The whole 70s went by. Just her true love is Steve. She didn't say that. She was, what you're talking about?

She was at the beginning of the movie. she was eating at a restaurant by herself. Okay. So there's, but there's been, there's been decades that have passed in between. How are you to say that she didn't do a little something, something in those 30 years or 40 years,

however many, however much time passed. Here's the deal. Like, what I want to see is a Wonder Woman who, about they, it's difficult. Like,

it's Wonder Woman. Do you understand that Wonder Woman is probably more of a hard ass than Superman is? I don't, you know, but she's a Amazon Can I make this argument? As a woman, we are in touch with our emotions in a way, and I'm not saying that we are like emotional. I am saying we are in touch with our emotions. We see things in a different way than men do.

So I think it is only natural as a woman's superhero to make her different from her male counterparts. And I think what's beautiful about her is she can be all these things. And then at the end of the day, that doesn't hold her back from doing what it is that she needs to do. do. We do it all. Women do it all. So maybe that's what it is that you're trying to portray. Men, you know, you're more one-track-minded.

And also, don't give me, don't give me a start on Kristen Wiggs character, right? Don't give me start on that. What's wrong with the Cheetah? Oh, my God, I did it. I did an interview. When we did the interview, there was a woman who dressed up in full Cheetah, another reporter. I thought Kristen Wig was great, but once again, the source of her power, you know, it's just weird. Well, she was also wanting to be like, like, gal. just men. The action scenes, I thought were a little

lackluster. Same. I thought the action things it's tough to make a decent superhero movie with a lackluster action scenes. And they just did. The movie, the movie just never got to where it was going. By the way, once again, you guys, Patty Jenkins is a fantastic, a filmmaker.

All of these people, they didn't try to make a bad movie. It's not, I hate it when we bang on people when they miss, but they missed here. They miss pretty badly. And I want to see the hero's journey for this character in a real way, man. I do. Yeah. Can I just say, because you know, I saw the beginning in the end,

I did not like the way she was able to overcome in the end. I wanted it to end with a fight scene. I did not want to see her with a message of, like, talking to people. I felt like that was a little weak. Did you think the same thing? Of course. I wanted her to bang it out. And I was disappointed that that's how

she overcomes things. That's how things get back to normal. I didn't like that. Maybe it works for 2020, but when they filmed it, they didn't know the pandemic was happening. I don't like it. Yeah, and personally to me, look, D.C. has to get

their shit together. I do. They have, they have an amazing, an amazing roster of characters, just a litany of fantastic stories to draw upon. It almost feels like if you got six comic nerds in a room and let us plot it out, we could do a better job. And by the way, we couldn't. We couldn't.

All of these filmmakers, these people are incredibly gifted and very, very skilled. But this was just a real big opportunity to move the whole universe forward, to move the character forward. And they just, you know, it's like whatever. It's not the worst movie in the world, but goddamn it, man. It's Wonder Woman. I hyped it up to you. I'm sorry. You would have seen it anyway

and still been disappointed, but... Yeah, of course I would have watched this. I'm gonna watch this one. I'm super excited about the next one. Like, you know, the first one was great. You know, it happens. It happens. You know what I mean?

So do we see Steve Trevor in the third one? There's just no way he can come back, right? Unless he's in a memory or a dream. Well, they could do something crazy with... Because Steve Trevor exists in different iterations, you know? There's old Steve Trevor, then there's New Street of Trevor, because these movies don't follow.

They're different versions of these storylines, right? There are Wonder Woman's where she exists in different timelines and stuff like that. And Steve Trevor is more of a contemporary character. And then there's Steve Trevor. There's Wonder Woman where she's in a relationship with Superman. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. She's been in a relationship with Superman.

Like, there's... Yeah, of course. Like, I'm just supposed to know that. Well, people know that. People know that. Wonder Woman's been in a relationship with Superman. It's like they actually had a daughter at one point. What?

What was her name? I think it was like Zara or Sahara or something like that. She's got to be the most powerful person ever. Well, she was. It was, there was a, this was in a graphic novel called Kingdom Come, a fantastic graphic novel.

Why do you keep using past tense? What you mean? To reference her. Oh, because the character didn't, it's not like the character endured. I haven't seen her too many other places. His name is Laura. Lara, yes.

So in Kingdom Come, it's kind of a it's a fantastic graphic novel where it's kind of in the future and Superman's retired and some of these people are gone and now like the heroes have kind of taken over the world

and then Laura is the daughter of Superman and Wonder Woman who comes back to write everything she's super duper powerful so it's fantastic kingdom's great it's great it's great

get into the don't you feel how does it you get me a little excited you like it you like you want to be a calm you want to be a comment nerd, don't you? No, I don't know about all that, but I'm intrigued. I am interested.

You know what? Where should I start? Where should I start? If you're like me, thought warriors. And you're and you're a little intrigued by some of this talk, you know? It's a new world to you. Where do we enter this world? I'll tell you what. I think it, the way, the, the, where you start is actually online. I'll tell you why. You start with going to the Wikipedia pages of various characters that you might like. And that'll tell you. That'll tell you which stories you want to indulge into. Like for me, it's offshoots of stories, right? It starts off with Superman.

And then it goes, boom, boom, boom, boom. You see, my cousins are talking about Wolverine. I saw, we Wolverine, I read the X-Men and then the X-Men take you to all over it, blah, blah, blah, and he shows up here. Before you know it, you're literally subscribed to like 11 different books, 12 different books, 13 different books. And in a very short amount of time, you got four or five thousand kind of books. You know, I'm kind of well-versed in X-Men, just from the movies.

I've seen, I've seen, remember, I could say the Phoenix. You're well, you're well versus an X-Men. I think. I'm afraid to say that in front of you. I'm just saying, so what, what's your favorite thing about Forge? Right. So you're not well-versed. That was literally the meme that goes around.

It's like when a guy meets the girls like, I like sports and the guy's like name 18 Hall of Favorites from this team. I'm saying, no, like just tell it. I mean, I'm pretty well-versed in the X-Men. Like, yeah. Like, yeah. Well-versed in the sense. that I can at least talk about that.

I mean, you make a reference, I can say, oh, the Phoenix. Okay, I couldn't do that for these other ones. That's true. I will give you credit. I mean, look, by the way, by the way, just to let people know. Forge, Forge, Forge. If y'all don't know, like, Forge's mutant powers,

he can, he's got the psionic ability to fix anything. He's, he's a, he's. Does he show up in any of the movies? Because otherwise, that's not fair. Do they, is Forge? No, he's not. Is he? Well.

No, no, he's not because in those, in the movies, they get to the point to where Beast is pretty much making everything. But really for the X-Men, like Forge, he, he's got a psionic link to technology. So he can figure out how to fix anything, which is a very good power. You think that that's a whack power? And that's another, you think that, oh, you're like a really super dope mechanic. And that's your mutant power. But like, really, he's a super powerful mutant, like a super powerful mutant.

But no, that is, but look, I tell you guys, this took an an Nornent, out of time. I'm not saying that people, you don't even want to be as much of a comic nerd as I am. No, it's not trying. Just curious. Right. Like, I'm not, this was an obsession. So, it's, it's a, it's almost a weird thing. So look, I

am fascinated with a couple of stories that we have to talk about today. Okay. Let's go. The first one is this whole thing with Hilary of Baldwin. Hillary. But is it Hillary or

Alaria. It's Ilaria. Ilaria. Elaria. But her birth name is Hillary. Hillary. Okay. Which is part of the controversy.

If you guys aren't up on this story, it's pretty funny. So Ilaria Baldwin is Alec Baldwin's wife. Okay. Ilaria is her name, but Hillary is also her name. She was born in Boston, but spent a lot of time, I guess, in her formative years, going back and forth between Boston and Spain. Yeah, she vacationed there. This is what I need people to understand. She vacations in Spain.

Right. Go ahead. So I guess in the past, there's been some question about whether or not she was Spanish or American. Right. And Ilaria has sort of fed into this by having a reappearing and disappearing Spanish accent. And in one case, on one interview, actually asking, like, how you say cucumber in English. Yeah. So basically, a lot of people are wondering, you know, what's up with her?

And it had been a thing that's going on where people were accusing her of appropriate. the Spanish culture to what end I'm not sure but she was definitely doing it. She made an Instagram video where she, you know, bore her soul to the world. We talked about the fact that she is indeed a white girl.

She came out as a white girl. It's the first time I've ever seen anyone come out as a white girl. She came out as a white girl. And attempted to explain why her ethnic lineage or her cultural identification

is probably a better way to put it, is somewhat ambiguous. Like why she seems to not be able to clearly define who she is. You watched it all, you read it all, what do you think? She got fucking lit up on the internet. And she should.

Because here's the thing. As my father would say, the ends don't match up here. If you watch the video of her explaining it, she basically is victimizing herself and in a roundabout way says a whole lot of nothing. And then she says that, you know, people shouldn't be hating on her because she speaks two languages and is familiar with two different cultures.

Nobody's saying that, Hillary. Nobody is saying that. What they're saying is you have allowed this narrative that you are from Spain and you are a Spanish woman to perpetuate in our culture. culture when that is not the case. There is evidence of her tweeting and saying, oh, Alec Baldwin did this for this little Spanish girl. You're not Spanish.

Just because you vacation in a place every year, just because your family has retired and moved there, just because you speak Spanish. You are familiar with a certain culture. Was she not born in Spain? No, she was not. She's born in Boston. Well, it says here on her CAA page.

Yeah, that she was born in Malo. Orca, Spain. And on the video, she says she was born in Boston. Or there's another article that she was born in Boston. She confirmed that she was born in Boston. Do you see what I'm saying? You see what I said? You and what she says is she's like, the media, the media has continued to try to say this.

And I laugh. And I joke about it. No, you don't. Your own bio page on your CAA speakers page says that you were born in Spain. You allowed this narrative to continue. So I don't feel sorry for her. She should be blown up. I mean, I understand you possessing a fondness of a certain culture, but then to pretend to actually be that for years and years and years, it's ridiculous.

It's laughable. And she should be blown up. And what bothers me is she's like, I don't understand why people are making such a big deal about this. Why do people even care? Because you're being a culture vulture. That's what people care about. You're pretending to be something that you're not. and that's a problem.

And now you're blaming the people who are holding you accountable for that because you speak two different languages and you're familiar with this culture. That's not what people are saying. She's a fake. You call me Fugazi. That's who really is. Yeah, she's kind of frugase.

I'm not going to lie. Like, I'm like, I'm really, I'm really not going to lie. She frugazi. I'm going to be honest with you, though. Like, I guess my thing is this. So first of all, let's clear up some things ethnically here. Are people from Spain, Spaniards, are they not white? Yes.

Well, yeah, yeah. They're white. Not all of them. Listen, listen, people are going to jump into that. I don't know this information. I'm sure there are many different ethnic groups. They're probably more than one ethnic group. But there are white Spanish people, if that's what you're saying.

So there are white Spanish people. So this has less to do with race and then more about culture, you know, because this is a- ethnicity. This isn't a racial Dolazal situation where Right, where she's, okay. All right. Not that that makes any difference, okay? And not that makes any difference. But the reason

why I bring that up is because I bring that up to speak to the point of motive. My thing is why. That's what, like, with some of these other people, there was very clear

it seemed to be it was very clear that there was a group that they were trying to fit into places that they were go struggles that they were trying to align themselves with

you know if you're talking about Rachel Dolez and all of that stuff like that she joined the NDACP and all of that I guess with her I'm asking why

why is she doing this is this just something that you do to make her seem a little bit more exotic and interesting and captivating to people because that's

fucking weird that's like some talented Mr. Ripley type of shit like that's like I would almost understand if there was something more finite to be gained and she was there was a club she was trying to be a part of in some way

it's like yeah the Spanish club weird That's what she was trying to be a part of. It is weird. I was in a Spanish club. It is. Can you speak Spanish?

A little bit, you know. You couldn't say it a lot of you. I couldn't say it a lot. Because I can't do all that role, but I was in a Spanish club. You feel what I'm saying? I, of course, this is her trying to be exotic and different. But the crazy thing is, is you've built this whole brands and image that you're relatable and you're open. And, you know, like that's her whole thing.

And then to come to find out, you're a fraud. Yeah, that's why people are making a big deal about it because you're trying to be something that you're not when you've built this entire brand that you are this open, real person. You know what I mean? That's literally me saying I'm from, I don't know, Jamaica. Jamaica.

Yeah. Because I like the Jamaican culture. Because you like the Jamaican culture. Look, so listen, man. we have to get down to the to the heart of this matter. The reality is this and it's a very, very

central question that we should ask. And we haven't asked for a long time. But I think we know the answer to it. And this is to all my white people. You know, it's white people out there. You guys are listening. You guys might hear this. And I just want to know, are you bored?

Is freedom that boring? because, you know, the struggle for freedom is anything but. I'll tell you what, the struggle for freedom, it might be hard, it might be arduous, okay? It might be dehumanizing, but it's certainly not boring. I can tell you that. But is freedom itself boring? Are we one day going to get all the freedom that we want, right? as minorities in this country, as black and brown people in this country,

and then look around and not fucking have shit to do and then start making stuff up. Because you're making it seem kind of boring. You're making it seem like, you know, you're making it seem as if it's not enough. And I have a solution to this. I've thought about this greatly. What is it?

I have a solution. I have a solution. Do you know what's not boring? You know what's a constant adventure? Being broke. The hits just keep on coming. You see, when you got money and you come home, you go to flick on the light switch.

You know what happened? The lights come on. But when you're broke, that's an adventure every time you go to that light switch. You flick that light switch And you don't know what's going to happen Either you're going to be able to warm up some oodles or noodles Or you might have to burn a candle

And figure out the rest of your night Your night might just be beginning So it's very simple You want all of the excitement that comes along Forget about Spain because I'm sure they got money But I'm talking about people here who want some excitement. Don't bungee jump. Don't jump out of a plane.

Don't try to con your way through college as another ethnic group. Don't do any of that. Give us your money. Go broke. It's the most exciting thing you could ever do. It's soul-destroying and crushing and hard, but I can promise you there's never a dull moment

and you're going to have to use all your guile and all your instinct and all of that and then what little you do have is crazy because you ain't got shit but there's somebody going to come try to take what it is that you got and it's like you get in your little thing so Ilaria don't put on a fake accent

ball give me the house in in Nantucket and then you go live in Baton Rouge you'll dig it I think you just scared everybody into staying white. No. Yes, you did. No. People are going to take me up on that.

They're going to take me up on that. Well, if you do. They're going to take me up on that. We'd love to have you a guest on this podcast. They're going to take me up on that. I'm telling me up on that. I don't understand why this is a thing. Like, I understand, of course there's...

You know what when people have power, when people have so much power, you can do anything that you want to do and you get bored. So then you start taking advantage of other things because you you can with the power that you have. That's literally what she was doing. So I'm looking up Spain here when there are a bunch of different national and ethnic racial, regional and ethnic identities that are there in Spain. But I tell you one thing that I have just learned by looking up Spain is that I have

not spent enough time in Spain. Spain is beautiful. I spent a summer in Spain. Not a summer. I went to Spain last summer, two summers ago. Did you dig it? Yeah, we went from Portugal and we did Sevia, Malaga, Malaga, Malaga. And I can never remember the third place that we went to.

Brian and I got engaged in Spain. Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did Rioja, the Rioja region in the Basque country. So I've been all over except for Barcelona. Yeah, I would like to go. It's beautiful. I would like to go check out Spain, man.

Maybe I'll come back with a new name. Maybe I'll want to change. Who knows? I have never been stared at more than when I was in Spain. Why? I'm not even kidding, Van, I will be walking down the street and I would see people parked in their cars and they would follow me and just watch me.

They thought you was going to steal something? I said, Brian, do you not notice everybody staring at us? Everywhere I went, people would break, turn like this, break their necks turning. Let me ask you a question. Do you think sometimes that's you? I never know. No.

Sometimes I feel that way, and sometimes I want to. wonder if it's me. No. I thought it was me. We spent two weeks in Spain. Believe me. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. And then Brian started noticing it too. I don't know what it was. There were other black people there. I don't know. I just gas lit the hell out of you. Why? I know. I don't know why. You think it was just you? You know, you know if people were staring at you. It's okay. I don't know why I did that. You know if people were staring at you? I actually thought it was a valid question

because if I had only been there a day, I could be like, yeah, no, maybe it was me doing the staring. But I was there two weeks. So she said that she had to anunciate for work. But if she becomes Ilaria, but if she gets nervous of a set, she mixes the two languages.

I don't even care about her mixing. That's not even what bothers me. Her not remembering how to say cucumber. Her going in and out with her accent, that doesn't bother me. It's the lies that she told about where she was born, how she got to the States, her family background. She even says, my family comes from many, many cultures. Which ones? Hillary, which ones?

Like she's saying it without saying it. Do you know what I mean? That's my issue there. I get it. Look, I think it's very interesting. Not even so much interesting. It's just important to remember that for a lot of people, for most people, it all comes back to culture. Culture is sacrifice.

It is the, a lot of times it's what becomes cultural tradition is based upon the sacrifice or the ingenuity or really the struggle of people who were around hundreds of thousands of years before you. And when you share that with someone, when you share your culture with somebody, that is something that should be done. It's a beautiful thing to do. It's an amazing thing to do. And it's something that should be done voluntarily. You shouldn't have your culture taken by you from someone or appropriated, right?

Exactly. Without your consent or your buy-in. The most beautiful thing that we can do on this world is share our experiences with one another, right? But you want to be able to, feel okay and whole with doing that. And when people do what it looks like she's doing, it really dehumanizes.

It makes people feel like she looks like a whole interloper and a violent interloper. And that's why it bothers me when she says what's the big deal. That exactly what you just said is why it's a big deal. And the fact that you don't get it shows your whiteness even more. Oh, whiteness. They're going to

Love you on the Bachelor of Party Nation for that. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm serious. I'm serious. White people, it seems as if you're bored. I get it. I'm telling you, man. Bland. Being broke is dangerous, but I can't,

not one day looks like the next one. I'm tired. Boy, I remember coming home one day. Never forget this. Coming home one day, and my dad's truck was running. And my dad I never feed this My dad goes

Come on boy We got to get in the truck And I'm like Okay cool Now where we got We got to find a chicken What? We had to find a chicken

Apparently we had completely Run out of food But somebody Had a chicken for us Okay Like we have farmers in our family My great grandfather had a farm And there was one chicken left

the chicken was a live chicken and what we needed was to get that chicken pluck that chicken do that whole thing with that chicken so that we could have something to eat on

for the weekend this is a true story but I remember we plucked the chicken before no okay we went to my auntie Yulelema's house as soon as we get there

she looks and she goes that chicken ain't over here I just remember my dad's face draining. That chicken ain't here. She was smoking a big cigarette. God rest of the soul. She was like, I think Snook and them got that chicken.

My cousin Snook and them had beat us to the chicken. They had got there right before then and got the chicken from us. So we had to drive to Zim Maryland from Yule and A's over the Snooks and then see if they get, see if they slaughtered the chicken yet. Because the chicken was promised us, it was our chicken, right? So we drive around there. And as soon as we get out of the car, I see Jen and wife, my uncle Jen, he had already passed away. I see Jen wife ringing the chicken's neck violently. Violently ringing the chicken's neck.

And my daddy go, hey, hey, you know what I said that's such chicken? And my, Jen's wife, I can't remember her name. She goes, I was just fin of pluck it for you. I told Snooking him to go get it. We was going to have you a nice chicken ready to go. I remember my dad just kind of breaking down. It's like the whole, yeah, the whole weight of the fact because we didn't really know if we had enough gas to get back.

We actually had to walk to the filling station. It wasn't always this bad, but it was this bad this time. We had to walk to a filler station, get some gas, put it back there. I remember it was hard for my father who always provided for his family to kind of did that. But I want people to think about that. Think about how colorful that story is. That white people can be yours. All you got to do is go broke.

Millions of Americans are doing it right now. You don't have to front. Just give us your money. I promise we've had enough. I would love to. I promise. They just give up to cash. and it's going to be straight.

All right, let's take a break. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business.

So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. service is not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. visit weathertech.com today. All right. Now, listen, there is the most fascinating,

the most fascinating article that I've maybe ever read, or not ever read. Why do people do that? It's not the most fascinating article I've ever read, but it's certainly one of the most fascinating articles I've ever read before in the New York Times. And, wow,

it is a whole saga and there's just myriad ways we can discuss this. So I'm just going to get into it. Okay, I'll break this story down for you guys really quickly, just so you know. Now, the story is of two people. A young man named Jimmy Gallaghan and a young lady who is named.

I've got to bring this up real quick because I do not remember what her name was off the top of my head. Mimi Groves. Jimmy Gallagher. and Mimi Groves. Jimmy is biracial. Mimi is white. They go to school at a high school to there or went to school at a high school together in Virginia.

Okay. So, this is the story. Mimi, when she was, I think maybe a freshman in high school, she went to school there in Loudoun County, which apparently, in Virginia, which apparently, from reading

this article, has an incredibly poor racial history. A history of segregation. It's Leesburg. Virginia's the name of the city that they live in that is named for Robert Lee, a Confederate General. And there have been complaints from students and schools all around the county

of just how terrible the racial conditions are there and what they have to go through just to go in and out of school. So apparently Mimi, when she was a freshman or a sophomore, had made a video where she used the N-word in the video. Okay. Fast forward to their senior year or their junior year, this video was, I guess, shared with Jimmy. Jimmy Gallaghan got this video.

Jimmy's biracial. He's had to deal with a lot of these things that go on in the school. He sees his classmate who he had been friendly with before this using the N-word. And he decides not at that point to put the video out. The video apparently made the rounds a little bit at the school, but didn't really go anywhere. And he decides Jimmy not to put the video out. The next year, which I guess would have been this year or last school year, Mimi starts getting everything that she wants. She is accepted to the University of Tennessee, which has a world famous cheering team.

She's a cheerleader. She was on the cheer squad. She got accepted into the University of Tennessee. and during the George Floyd protests, she posted on her Instagram about how people could help support Black Lives Matter. Upon seeing this, Jimmy, who had been waiting for the opportunity

to surface this video, called her out on it, and put the video online. Since then, Mimi's life has been in Shambles. Immediately, and if you read the New York Times article, it goes into great detail to tell the story of how immediately people began to repost the video,

to tag the University of Tennessee, to tag the cheer team to do all of these things, right? To try to make sure everybody had seen this. Since then, she's been kicked off the cheer team at the University of Tennessee, and the university pressured her by her parents, according to her parents, into withdrawing from the school.

She is now taking online courses at a nearby school. She doesn't go to any college. She was going to college. She doesn't go to any college. This story is fascinating for a lot of reason. Jimmy remains unapologetic for what he did. He now goes to college in California. thinks that he did absolutely the right thing because he thinks that he set a clear standard

for how him and the rest of his black classmates are going to be treated and that you can use everything by you lose everything by using that type of language he says that these are things that have historically been overlooked at the school that there's been all other times other times that he's tried to bring this to the attention of administrators at the school. And they've never really dealt with it. There's apparently a game they play there called Underground Railroad where you have to run through the dark. Yeah, where you have to run through the dark and not make any noise. Apparently the climate, if you're black, at the school, is really, really bad.

I read this and I was shocked at the fact that I really didn't know what to make of the story at first. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, I didn't know what to make of the story at first. It's hard for me. What were your thoughts?

Same. When you brought this story to my attention and I read it and I was like, okay, for a second, this is my initial thought. I could see both sides of it. because part of me said this happened. Some years have passed between when she said it to when he posted it. And when he posted it is after a time that she is trying to, in a racist town apparently, or with racist history, standing up and saying, Black Lives Matter, you know, this shouldn't

have happened. Here's how you can help this cause. We don't know what happened in between the time she said it and the time she made that post. and then he made what she said public. So a part of me is like, maybe she learned from her mistakes years ago. Then I saw a quote that she said. She said, quote,

I've learned how quickly social media can take something they know very little about, twist the truth, and potentially ruin somebody's life. That made me see the other side of it. I feel like somebody who says that is somebody who has not learned from what they did. how can Jimmy be twisting the truth when you said this? Like he might have held on to this.

He might have been intentional in how he decided to distribute to the public with the intention to harm you or to at least hold you accountable for what it is that you said so you could suffer consequences. But how did he twist the truth? You said it. You said it in a way where you thought people wouldn't see it. You said it in private. You did it on Snapchat where you knew it would disappear in 24. hours, you sent it to one friend. You knew it was wrong. You knew it was racist. That's why you did it where it would disappear. You sent it to one friend. You did it in secret. And I feel like Jimmy was

teaching you the consequence of saying that word. She also said that she didn't understand the gravity of the word. Van, I am so tired of people saying they did not understand the history of the N-word. You know the word is controversial. You know it's inappropriate. You know it's racist. You know it's not right. That's why you wouldn't go out in public and just say it, which is what she didn't do. And I'm so tired of people hiding behind this guys of just acting like they don't understand what the word means. I don't think they do understand. No, but you know it's wrong. But you know it's wrong.

You might not know the history of it. Right. But you know it's wrong. And you know it's racist. I don't know. I can't be sure. I'll be honest with you because because as, as. You don't think by saying that you're giving white people an excuse?

No, I think I'm trying to look at it in the most honest way. I think that so I'll be honest with you. I think as a kid, it's very possible, not as an adult, as a kid, it's very possible, at that age, it's very possible not to understand the ramifications of the way. I don't believe that because of how she did it. Well, look, I think there are a lot of words that you would say, that you wouldn't say in front of your parents, that you would say, let me finish. I think there are a lot of words that you wouldn't say in front of your parents

that you would say to your friends. But I don't think that a lot of those words have the history behind them that the N-word does. And I don't think that a kid that hears the word all the time in a lot of, let's, if we're being honest, and a lot of the music that they're consuming, can really understand that until, something like this happens, which is why I'm on the fence about it, because I think the moment

actually drives home to a lot of other kids in the school, like, why, what the word really means to people. I think it's very possible at 14, she knew that it was something she shouldn't have been saying, but she really didn't know why. You just did this whole thing about saying where she comes from. She comes from a racist town. She can't tell me that I would find it hard to believe that she has not heard somebody use that word in a racist way. It's not just that it's a bad word. It's a racist term. And I think we can all agree that we know that. And even if you're listening to people rap about it in music, they don't look like you. So why would you ever feel comfortable saying this word? And I guess I feel even more passionate about it because we all know I

dealt with something like this in this summer with Hannah Brown. And the thing that was said was, I didn't know, I didn't realize the gravity of that word. I didn't realize the weight that it holds. I am tired of people saying that. Now, maybe there's it. She was 24. This girl was 14. I don't care 14.

It's not like if she was a 6 year old and she was repeating something that somebody said, yes, at 14, you know better. At 24, you know better. It's just difficult for me. I think you're giving white people escape go to be able to, use the word. It's the equivalent of saying, well, rappers doing anything. I'm what I'm like, I'm not giving anybody

a scapego to use anything. What I'm saying is this, I'm saying that like, look, I'm not, you use a word or you say a term, there's consequences to it, right? When I was 12 years old, 11 years old, 12 years old, 13 years old, right? And I'm calling women

bitches and hoes because Snoop Dog calls them bitches and hoes. Not putting this on Snoop or nobody else or because, Forget about Snoop. When I'm calling women bitches and hoes, because I hear my uncle's saying it, I hear the dudes

on the block saying, and I'm doing that same thing, all this ho this bitch is that. When I'm doing that as a kid, I don't understand how deadly those words are. Right, but that's a word that is used universally with women, right? Doesn't matter what race,

ethnic background culture you come from. That's not true. The N-word, yes, they're calling all women bitches and hoes. They're not just saying it just about black women. But I didn't hear it anywhere other than in my own community.

I know, but what I'm saying is, is that when it comes to that word, we're talking about the word. When it comes to the N-word, it is particular to a certain race. And I think at a 14, you know that that's- No, no, here's the thing about the N-word, and we have to confront this. The meaning is particular to a certain race. Right. Okay, so the thing, and we just have to be honest about this.

The thing about the N-word is that you can say the N-word, I can say the N word. If anybody else says the N word, the connotation completely changes. Now, that's rightly so. That's the way that it goes. But those are things to be honest with you that have to be explained.

And we can't act like they can't. Like the reality is, me and you talk to N word all day long, right? Me and you talk to N word all day long. You hear the N word on a song. You hear the N word on a song. Even if a white person is singing a song lyric, when they say the N word, the charge is different because of the history and the word.

Now, we can assume, or we can say that everybody knows that history, or we can ask, really, when did you learn it? And I think that's a fair question to ask for Mimi or whoever it is. She might have known that it was something she should have been said. She might have known that it bothers the black kids in her school. She might have known. But now she knows. Because of the consequences, what you're saying,

or you're saying because she did her research and learned the history of it. You can't, you're not going to be able to make this point to white people without consequences. And by the way, that's not a point. I agree. There's not a point that you make to human beings without consequences. Well, I agree. Which is why I can't tell you how much backlash I received. And I guess this is why I am sensitive to this, how much backlash I received because I did a video explaining the history, not even in detail, just talking about the weight of the N-word and why it was wrong for a white person to say.

say it and I got backlash. And what people said to me was she didn't know it was just a song. She didn't mean it. You don't know her heart. Fuck that. You know what I'm saying? Like, no, she's old enough to know exactly, to know exactly what that, that word is a racist word. Maybe you aren't well-versed on the history of it, but you know it was wrong and you know it was racist. And the consequence of it is she suffered it, right? Like she felt she didn't get kicked out of, or, you know, denied from a college like Mimi did. But she said. But she said, suffered the consequences to understand the gravity of the word, which is why

when you first told me about this story, I switched to the other side because I think that if Mimi was bold enough to say it, then she's bold enough to deal with the effects of saying that word. So my, the way, oh, go ahead, I'm sorry. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. So my thing is this.

So there's two parts of it. One is the human reaction of these are kids, right? That's the first thing that. These are kids. These are kids. I look at it, and this is this is what more than anything, this is what can happen when you've been fucked over in America too much.

It can rob you of your empathy. And it can rob you with your empathy, right? Totally agree. It can take your empathy from you. It can make you a little bit less of the person that you would like to be. I'll tell you how. I would like for there to be a point

where you're a kid and you're figuring out the world and one mistake doesn't mean that you get hit with the guillotine and have something complete and have your life completely changed. I would love for that to be the thing. It's hard for me to imagine a world where it's that way because it's not that way for us.

You know what I mean? It would hard for me, it's hard for me to imagine a world where things are that way because if this would have been a kid, a black kid, that would have made a mistake, would have done something legal or illegal. I just have a hard time believing that if he didn't run a 4-340

that they would be any grace for him in that community. And so it makes me, it makes me go, okay, yeah, like that makes sense. But just intellectually, looking at it, the reality is that when you're on those playgrounds and when you're talking, like when you're on a playgrounds, middle school, even early high school,

even though racist white kids, that are calling you a nigger, they don't even know what they're saying yet because they ain't lived enough. They don't have, they don't, what they're giving you right now, at that, literally at that point, they're giving you what their parents have given them.

And it's possible that they'll see a part of society that'll keep reinforcing that over and over and over again. Or it's possible that they'll change their minds as people like you and, and I, we're not responsible for either eventuality. If you said it, the consequences can come whenever they come. And I'm not going to have, I'm not going to play a violin for you. I'm just saying, looking at it, it was just interesting that had she never chosen to be an ally,

that this might have never happened to her, which is just, that's, that fascinates me. Yeah. I, I think he obviously says, that he was waiting for the opportunity to do it. So it was coming out anyway. Yeah. So it was going to come out. Maybe when she announced when she was going to call.

Who knows? But this presented itself the perfect timing for him to not only do it, but knew that it was going to garner the attention and have the, like, the momentum to become even bigger. I don't even think Jimmy knew how big this was going to be, to come about. But I will say that if what you're saying is true, which I don't know if I necessarily agree in regards to they don't even realize the gravity of what they're saying. How could they? They don't know enough history. Here's my thing.

Go up to an 11-year-old kid that's calling some... There's a difference between... She was 15, by the way, because she was getting her permit. There's a difference between 11 and 15. And I guess I just feel like, just because I tell you... No, there's not? Well, there's a difference between 11 and 15. What I'm saying is, like, the world is very small to a 15-year-old.

Here's what I'm saying. Just because I sit her down and talk... and give her the history of the word and talk about, you know, how we got here and how that word was used against it and, like, go through the whole story. I don't think that that necessarily changes from her knowing that that's a racist word.

At 15, she knew it was racist. I don't think you need to know the 400 years of history. I'm not saying, oh, go ahead. I'm not saying she didn't know it was racist. I guess that's, and that's all I'm saying. You know it was racist. There's a difference bad and racist. Here's the thing.

Number one, she knows it's a word that she shouldn't be saying, right? And she knows that it's a word that when coming from white people could be racist. I don't know if she knows that or not, but I'm not saying that it's out of the question that she would know that. The N-word is an act of violence. And I think that has to be articulated to people in a very direct way. Now, I will say that it seems like we have to fucking say it over and over and over again. But there is, you know what I mean?

like shout out to my like and they're hearing a word that's a part of a slang lexicon it gets to be complicated and I don't think that we do ourselves any favors by acting like it's not it gets to be complicated I think it and I'm not saying that I'm saying that to me personally sure there's a world where she doesn't understand that using that word equals death like sure there's a world where that exists and I think because you know the twisted T video. The dude right now going around of a dude

in a store, a white guy and a black guy. And a white guy continues to say the inward over and over and over and over again. And then after a while, the black guy says, you're going to stop calling me a nigga. He takes it for a while.

And the white boy says it again. The black guy pops him in the face with a twisted tea. And then dogs. Sorry, I could find nothing but joy in that video. Nothing but joy. Yeah. And I know you're listening to this and you're white and you don't get it.

You think they're just words and you can't assault someone. The N-word is an act of violence. And we have, and I'm not saying that it's our job to make that. But I'm saying at some point you learn it. And who's to say when it is that you learn it to that degree? So remember when you were so passionate and R, I shouldn't use past, past tense, about when we were having the discussion about defund the police. and I was saying how I understand we shouldn't die on the hill of, you know, like keeping the phrase when it's what we're trying to get done.

That's what the message is what we're trying to push forward. And you were saying how you were so tired of having to explain how we have to like, we have to be the ones to change. We have to be the ones to explain it. We have to, you know, like basically accommodate white people when it comes to this. That's how I guess I felt when I watched this because I went through that this year. and so in a public way. And so I guess that's my frustration when I see this is, I'm so, why do we have to constantly keep explaining how bad this word is to people?

No, no, we don't. We don't. But when you learn, you learn. That doesn't mean you didn't know. Like, we don't. Like, it's not up to us to explain it. And she learned. And she learned, which is why I wasn't mad.

That's why I moved to the other side is what I'm saying. Right, which is what I'm saying is that, like, she, the reason why I said when I watched the story I thought oh wow because it seems a little bit diabolical to hold the video and then wait

by the way I did that I thought about that you were Jimmy I did that I never used it but we went to a work there was a job I had we went to a work party and one of my coworkers got lit

and started singing gin and juice and I taped it and he was letting them fly And I remember, I went up after him. I was like, I was like, yo, look, seriously, this is the work thing. So I don't ever want to hear you. I was like, I'm telling you straight up.

If you ever let that word fly before, I'm going to get fired. Oh, sorry, Van. I was like, also, I got on tape. And I would just tap it. I would just tap my phone. Every once in a while, I tap my phone. I was so not mad. I'll just be like, I'll tap my phone.

gin and juice. But no, but. But I would have, you know, I'm not into blackmail. It was a thing. But I did all, I did, like, I did almost have to, like, dog the shit out of them. But, but, but, but what I would say, though, is, is in that situation. I'm not saying that, like, we have, we, it's our job to do that. Yeah.

But I am saying it is probably something that needs to be learned. And who knows when you learn it or how you learn it, you know? Like, this is how she learned. The hard way. She now knows how serious that is. Yeah. And there's going to be a lot. Or does she? Because she's saying that, listen, it got out of hand.

People twisted the truth. Well, no. I think what she means is that I'm not a racist. And she very well might not be. And I'm not saying she is. But I tell you one thing, there's evidence to the contrary. And people have to remember that. Right.

You might not be what it is. You say that you're not. But if you act on certain things and. you behave in certain ways, it's going to be difficult to convince people of the other side of that. Hey, man,

like, I'm not a chauvinist. I just personally don't let my wife wear skirts. That's a hard case to make. Right. I'm not racist. I say the N word, though. Yeah. And so, you know,

and she was a kid and maybe things are different now. Who knows? But Jimmy says something at the end of it, where he goes, you know, This is a good lesson for some people.

I can just see him saying it. Because they got this picture of him looking fierce on the thing. And it is a lesson. It's going to make people think twice. And I think that's Jimmy's message. You're going to think about it before you do it again. You're going to understand how important and the gravity of saying this word. Does it mean, but that also doesn't mean that you can't look at the situation

with the girl who lost her college thing and feel bad. Like, I didn't feel initially. But it's not like Jimmy stopped her from going to college forever, right? He stopped her for going to her dream school. She can apply somewhere else. Yeah, talking about once again. I'm telling you guys once again. See how exciting that is?

That's exciting. We know it's born. She's going to have a hell of a college essay, right? She's going to have a hell of a college essay. You know it's born. She made the, see what I'm saying? I'm telling you white people, this getting fucked over thing, y'all ignoring it.

I'm telling you. She made the New York. York Times. She wouldn't have made the New York Times. Had she just gone to Tennessee and been on the chair squad? She wouldn't have been in the shit of New York Times. This getting fucked over thing, y'all need to try it. We don't want to try it no more. But y'all, try it. Try it. Getting fucked over. That's the new way for white people in the new year. Get fucked over. Catch the feeling of getting fucked over. Listen, life is hard.

Hopefully she gets, you know, I will wish the best for her. She'll be five. She'll be five. She'll be five. All right. Let's take a little break. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweet Green's new wraps have got you.

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The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Real quick, we're only going to spend three minutes on this because, you know, it's annoying. But President Trump finally signed the relief bill. People are getting their $600. Your thoughts.

Glad he signed it. Long overdue. I hate it that he gave us some pushback, but he signed it and needed to be done. and I'm glad people are going to get the relief that they need. It needs to be more money. Well, that's what Trump said. That's why he didn't want to sign it. Well, he said it need to be more money.

Then Pelosi and the Democrats were trying to get it done, and he didn't use his influence to try to get the bill up to $2,000. Of course. This is the man who's just, like, from the range. You know what I mean? Just tweeting and signing bills or the lack there of. Americans in the coming year to kind of, beat the economic turmoil of this pandemic,

we're going to have to ban together. The government's not going to help us. Government's not going to help us. The government isn't interested in helping America because it doesn't seem like they're interested in politics. We're going to have to band together. Solidarity is going to get us through this. Not anywhere from any politicians.

And that's on the other side. Okay. Now, year-end mailbag in a second. because right now I got to give my thoughts on the utter bullshit that took place on the Bachelorette. Final thoughts of the season. Final thoughts. Number one, I couldn't be less impressed with who Tasia chose. I think it's terrible.

If you'd have given me a million shots, I'd have never pegged him as the Bachel. Bachelor. What's his name again? Noah. Zach. Zach. Zachie. Zachariah. Didn't love him. Never loved him.

Did you love any of the guys for her? I didn't. Other than Bennett, other than Bennett. I loved Bennett. Bennett was too real. Bennett was too real for this. Bennett, like Bennett was a real personality.

Bennett had real chutzpah. Bennett had, Bennett had too much to be the bachelor. You need a little bachelor's choice. You need somebody that's a little a little plain Jane I'm seeing. Somebody that's a little bit, you know, that can be... Oh, my husband. That ain't my husband. That's not him?

No. No. You can watch my season. No. To have any further thoughts about that. Sure. I'm not making any of something to say. You took it to heart. I wasn't saying anything about it.

Keep going with your recap. Keep going with your recap. No. First of all, I thought that Ivan was going to be the, I thought Ivan was getting to the end. I thought Ivan was going to be the choice. I was starting to rule for Ivan,

his little pecan head ass. I started to think that Ivan was going to be, he does have a head like a pecan, like a little pecan head nigger. I thought, I thought, I thought Ivan was, I thought Ivan was going to be the choice. I thought Ivan was. No, they had no romantic connection.

They seemed there was no chemistry between the two of them. They had a conversation. I was with you. There's a lot of brothers out there. It's a lot of brothers. There's a lot of brothers out there wondering why there was no connection. You know what I mean? It's a lot of brothers.

Like, I'd be honest with you, Rach, two black bachelorets. We owe for two. You're old for two. We're old for two. It's a lot of brothers that hit me up and said, yo, Van, ask Rach to address this. Let me tell us. And there's a lot of people out there that think that was match.

season coming. Oh, Matt's not going to pick a black woman. We're about to be able for three. I mean, I would bet that Matt would not pick a black woman, but I could be wrong. I would say this. The same people who are sliding

in your DMs, would they come on the show? No. And this is what I told the bat. When I went on the bachelor, I was like, if I fall for somebody, they're probably not going to be black. Because the type of dude that I date is not coming on the show. Period. Black man.

You got to realize who's casting the black men to come on the show. So what you're saying is we can't get black love. Well, by way, I'm not saying that your love

isn't black love? No, no, no. I'm not saying that. We can't get two black people on the wedding for the bachelor. That's not happening.

I'm not saying that. That it will never happen. What I'm saying is you have to look at who is casting the black man to come on the show. You have white people choosing black who they think a black person is another black guy,

this black woman is going to like this black man based on their like for them. They need to have people of color that are diverse in the decision room making decisions. I've said this time and time again from casting to the actual show to post production to how we come out on the show. Until then,

it's just not going to work. It's just not going to work. You're not going to see you. You're not going to see it. I want to say this. I was on the finale. I saw that. No, yeah, the Monday before the finale. And I'm very disappointed that they didn't show our conversation.

Yeah. They just showed me talking about the man. I've come to expect to be edited and muted in Bachelor World. But Tasha and I had a very interesting conversation. What they cut out? Well, I would not have traveled in the middle of a pandemic in quarantine for four days to talk about, two men that I know nothing about, nor do I really care about, right? I cared about Tasia and that she was making a good decision,

but I also cared that Tasha was prepared to be in what I knew at the time was an interracial relationship when she stepped out into the world. I was there to say, hey, there's a lot going out in the real world that you don't know about in this bubble. Have you had these conversations? And it was very important. I'm going to talk about the back and forth. I'm just going to say that I was there to say, hey, have you asked these questions?

Have you talked about race? Do you know what it's like to navigate this world as an interracial couple? How does he feel about that? How does he feel about the current administration? Have you talked about Black Lives Matter? Have you, like, those were things. Has he ever dated a Black woman before? Those are questions that needed to be asked and answered before any type of proposal was accepted.

They cut out all of that conversation. Shout out to one of my cousins who's no longer with us. And one of the funniest moments of my life, he brought us girl. He brought his girl to the house. He looked at her. He was like, he was like, people say

racial stuff to us. I tell you what, ain't no racial, like inner racial. What? My mother was disgusting. asked this to a room full of people. No, he came in.

Like, he came there and he had his, his girl was white. And somebody had some kind of way and brought up whether or not people in Padderidge look at them crazy. And he was like, he's like, yeah. He said, yeah, people say racial stuff. But ain't no racial like interracial.

My mom was someone. Oh, my God. God damn. Why do you always take the funny ones from us, Lord? Jeez. All right. Mailbag. Mail bag. Quick into the year mailbag. Let's go.

Okay. First, coming off of Bachelor, I would just like to say, for all the listeners, Van and Rachel will be on Bachelor Party live after Matt James's premier January 4th, 7 p.m. on all of the ringers social channels. So, you know, that's great. Yes. We're excited about that. Quick little year-end mailbag.

Because we talked about Van's least favorite movie of the year, WW84. What was your favorite movie of the year? God, what came out this year? It was a lot of movies. I really enjoyed Sylvie's Love, which I just saw. Oh, somebody told me to watch that. Soul was good. Oh, so good.

Soul was good, a little movie. But the best movie I saw this year is not coming out to next year. It's called Judas in the Black Monument. Messiah is about the life of Fred Hampton. That's all I'll say. That's all I can say. But fantastic film. And that's coming out next year?

It's coming out next year. That's the best thing I saw this year, though. Best movie I saw. What about you, Rich? I'm looking at 2020 movies. I guess I would have to go with Soul. I really like the way. And I saw it.

I actually did see this movie from start to finish. And then I watched it again with my nephews. over Christmas. And they didn't really get it the same way. Because it is kind of an adult movie, but I really like the nuanced way it deals with life and death and then what your purpose is. So I thought it was good.

Good message. Though, Guy Jackson, next one. What was your favorite memory of something you did during the year? Easy. A trip to New York. Trip to New York

in January. I had some meetings up there flew into New York, New York in the wintertime did 2020. I was on 2020. Stayed in the Williamsburg Hotel in Brooklyn. You look just like your dad right now. Hey, hey, yo, that scared the shit out of me.

Oh, my God. That scared the hell out of me. Did it? When y'all watch this, watch that and do a side by side of the frame that I saw her in, even right now, and then put it next to Judge Lindsay, who was the most terrifying man in the universe. Like, you scared the hell out of me, right there.

Like, you were just like your dad. But, yeah, and then that, that trip to New York was great. Met a lot of people did a lot of things. New York's always amazing. And then, you know, the world, man, like we went to Disneyland in February, and it was just amazing. If I'd have known how awesome and precious that would have been with me and Cleave going to Disneyland,

I would have probably enjoyed it even more, but it was great. You went to land or world? Land. I've never been to world before. Oh, okay. For me, it was celebrating my one-year university with Brian. We went to Aruba. It was everything, right?

Like, we didn't even do a whole lot. Just like getting away, spending time with one another, celebrating a year. As you know now that you watch The Bachelor, it's these, the show is not meant for your relationship to succeed. And it's even harder. to do it after once everyone has their opinions about who you chose. So to have that success and to celebrate a year, it was especially before I moved to L.A.

It was a real great moment for us. That's very, very sweet. Jackson, last one. What is one thing you want to improve on for yourself in 2021? For me, I feel like I devote a lot of time to work, which I'm proud of. I've always been a hard worker. I've been working since I was 11 years old.

but I really want to take 2021 to focus on the personal. And I don't just mean with me, I just mean with like my relationship, building a family, having some stability, planning some roots somewhere because I constantly feel like I'm always on the go. So it's really important for me for 2020 to be personal.

I am going to devote 2021 finally in a real intensive way to mental health. I have got to figure out what's going on in my head. I know that I do it a lot, and I've talked about it a lot, but I'm never going to stop talking about it. And I realize something that I just want to make, I want to put this out there. So I'm an intensive outpatient program right now

where I do a lot therapy per day. I think I've talked about it. It costs, I'm just going to talk about this, it costs $12,000, okay? $12,000 for what I'm doing. there was something that hit me when I actually paid for it. Number one, I completely and totally needed. And number two, what if I couldn't afford it?

Like there's somebody out there right now who needs this amount of care, who needs this amount of sort of attention, but they can't afford it. There's nowhere they can get it. And they're going to wake up and cry throughout their mornings and go in and out of ideations and do all of that stuff with no relief. Simply because we haven't discussed this issue enough to the point to where people understand how essential it is. And so for me, specifically in my community, I'm not even talking about whether or not there's a stigma around mental health because I think we're kind of over talking that now. I'm talking about even if there's no stigma for you, if you want help, can you?

you get it. Mm-hmm. And I'm going to be dedicated to figuring that out. So not just figuring it out for me, but figuring out for other people. Yeah. So that's something. And 2021, app time. Apps.

Abs. I was a app. No, abs. Abbs, bringing the abs back. Ooh, I did some crunches this morning. I'm going to be a sexy daddy. Have you heard of that 600 Abbs a day?

Crunches a day thing, challenge? 600 crunches a day. You don't do it at one time. You do it throughout the day. Hell no. Okay. I'm trying to help you out. I'm trying to help you out, Van.

You know what? You know what? Won't give you 600? Triple tree bucks. Triple tree bucks. Don't matter. I'm still eating it. Pizza Hut.

Pizza Hut. Remember who really loves you, Pizza Hut? It was me. Book it. Shout out to my grandmother. Okay, we are out. You guys, where we don't have a show

coming up on Thursday because it's New Year's Eve or New Year's Day. It's one of those. New Year's Eve. It's one of those. New Year's Eve or New Year's Day. But when we come back,

we do our top of the year show, we're going to give our unexpected ally of the year. Oh, whoa. Okay. Yeah. So we're going to be out. Thought Warriors, take your thin caps off,

but not stop learning. I am Van Lathan. I'm Rachel. you Lindsay. Happy New Year.