Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - What to Make of ‘On the Record,’ Trump Co-opting Juneteenth, and NASCAR Removing the Confederate Flag

Episode Date: June 12, 2020

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay have a discussion about the recently released documentary ‘On the Record’, the accusations of rape brought against Russell Simmons, as well as his appearance on The Breakfast Club (6:26). Then they debate why President Donald Trump is choosing to have his first campaign rally in months on Juneteenth (38:52), discuss the removal of the confederate flag from NASCAR (56:56), and give props to LeBron James for his new voting initiative (1:07:31). Finally, Van takes a moment to discuss a recently passed friend (1:25:44). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And loud. I'm Rachel Lindsay. I got to turn down my volume with you. You turn down your volume. Okay, well, look, we'll start there. We'll start with Rachel sort of playing into commonly held stereotypes about African-Americans. Wow. So is that how the whole show's popping off?

You just go rag on me. That's the energy. were set in this whole show. I got it. I'm ready. I just need to be ready. And what we're doing now, it's called passing the buck because you started by criticizing me. You, you're the one. Oh, you loud. Like, you know, you want me to like, first of all, for all you watching the video, you will see how he just imitated me when he said, oh, you loud. First of all, there were no fingers. There was no head moving. I'm good, though. I feel good. I was a little bit under the weather the last time we recorded. I'm feeling, I'm feeling much better.

Great. I'm feeling good. I feel refilled. Okay. You know, shout out to you. I gave you a shout out on Twitter for giving me the quote that kind of carried me through to where I am today. Did you like that? Just show I love to my co-host.

Such a Trump administration move by you right there. Whoa, that's two. All right. Wait, we're two minutes in. We talked about yesterday. I sort of derided the quote of you can't pour from an empty cup. I go on Twitter and Rachel has posted on her Twitter, you can't pour from an empty cup,

dash Van Lathen. And I got people hitting me up like, yo, van, yo, yo, yo, dog, that's deep, exactly what I said. Thank you, Rachel. By the way, I appreciate you. You're welcome. Like, giving me a little snipe right there.

You're welcome. I actually, after that, did another podcast or something. And I was like, you know, like my co-host says, you can't pour out of an empty cup. Oh, my God. I didn't say that. That is not a Van Lathen quote. I did not say the porn from an empty cup thing.

Stop it. I hate that. That's so good. How are you, Van? I feel like I'd never say, how are you doing? I'm not well. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not well because of some things that, you know,

have happened over the course. this week the last couple of days, some really incredibly devastating news has become a reality for me and all of my friend group. And we lost somebody. But I don't want to start the podcast off like that.

I will talk about that a little bit later on and some greater things that have to do with the way in which we lost this person and kind of the moment that we're in. But I appreciate the ability to even say that I'm not well. Like it's freeing to have the space to be able to be like,

yo, for right now, you know, for right now, you know, I'm not doing so hot. You know what I mean? Well, and I think to be able to honor that, I remember in therapies one time someone, not someone, my therapist said, you need to just sit and feel exactly what it is that you're feeling. Because too often we try to brush things under the rug to try to move it on or mask it with something else to distract ourselves

rather than just being present in the moment and actually feeling all of that. So I'm proud that you're able to say that. I'm sorry for your loss. I know you don't want to talk about it right now, but... No, I mean, speaking of therapy, I will say this, something interesting happened in therapy earlier. Today, I have therapy every Thursday.

Dr. Coley Williams, shout out to my doctor. I have therapy. And normally when you leave therapy, you feel better. but I didn't feel better when I left therapy this morning and I'll tell you why. So I have been so bothered by what's happened. Like I'm getting up and I'm walking around while I'm doing the therapy. Like I'm walking, you know, so whatever.

She says stop and then we do a grounding technique because I get so worked up to where she has to, I have to ground and I have to look. It's a fantastic technique where you're looking around and you're identifying different things that you can see. Green leaves. You're spelling a street sign back. You're switching your brain back from a reactive mode

into a sort of feeling mode. Okay? You're grounding yourself. But your brain gets too reactive and you get all clogged up. So we do all of this and I'm doing it. I'm on the street and I'm spelling words on a sign backwards, which you look completely crazy. Like, oh, there's Main Street, N-I-A-M, you know, it's the whole deal.

we leave the we were getting ready to go and she goes well what are you doing Tuesday morning and I said I'm just you know hanging out playing mad and whatever she goes let's go ahead and schedule an additional therapy session for Tuesday morning and I'm like what she's like yeah let's go two two days a week next week and I'm like I'm like I'm like what you need an extra day? Like, I need an extra day? Like, what, what are you seeing? Don't worry about it. I don't want you to worry about it, you know? Just, just, just, just, get an extra day. It's like, it's like, when your doctor says, hey, we saw something on your ultrasound. Don't worry about it. Just get here in the next 45 minutes. So I'm like, yo, what's wrong? But, uh, we're working there before.

It's, it's scary. We're working through it, though. We're working through it. And you're doing, but you're doing okay, that's the most important thing. You're doing okay. I physically feel better. Yes. Thank you. So I think the most interesting thing, I mean, obviously we're going to talk about the ongoing protest and civil unrest that exists in America.

That is still top of mind conversation. But there is something that is going to supplant that, at least for now, as the lead of our show. And I don't want anyone to take that as in as if we're saying there's anything more important to discuss than what's happening at the moment

we're in right now in America. But I saw a fantastic documentary a couple of nights ago. It was Tuesday night on HBO Max, which is interesting because HBO Go just turned into HBO Max overnight. I'm like, hey, I got HBO Max. I didn't even know.

I didn't sign up for it, whatever. Called On the Record. On the record. And it details three women, specifically, and their allegations against Russell Simmons. If you guys don't know who Russell Simmons is. Russell Simmons is the, one of the founders of Def Jam Records. I would say that in the mechanism by which we understand it now, in the way that we understand it now, Russell Simmons was the

godfather and almost the chief architect of hip-hop, at least the business side of it, not the music side of it, not necessarily the culture side of it, but in starting Def Jam Records, he laid the foundation for many other record labels that will go on to become, to make up what we understand hip hop culture to be right now. His importance to the history of rap and hip hop music simply cannot be overstated. But in this documentary, you have three women that allege that during the 90s and during the 80s, I believe, they were raped by Russell Simmons. Now, you have way, more people, way more women that have alleged various degrees of misconduct against Russell. But in this documentary, three women tell their stories.

I know that you saw it. What did you think? So first of all, thank you for putting this on my radar because I did not know about this documentary. You told me about it. I watched it. And I'm just, I don't know if I'm floored. But I guess I'm feeling similar feelings that I felt when I watched the R. Kelly

documentary. Kind of like, how did I not know this was happening? I heard it, but I didn't research it. I didn't really delve into it. We all heard when Russell Simmons was being accused because it came out during the Me Too movement when Harvey Weinstein, when he was being accused as well. But I mean, I'm watching this. And I find these women extremely credible, extremely credible in their stories. I mean, and for those of you who haven't watched it, it's just not some random person. These are people that were an A&R executive, a friend of Russell Simmons,

an artist. And then there are 20 women who have made accusations since, I guess since this all came out, since the first one did. And so we see the stories of three and then a fourth one comes along towards the end. I mean, so I'm a person,

before I get into this, I'm a person who when I'm watching something, I go down a dark hole and start researching at the same time I'm actually watching it. Are you like that? Of course. Of course. Or three screens, Lathan. I got the whole three screens is what they call me.

I got the TV screen going, the computer screen going, then the phone. All three screens. That's what they call me. Okay. Three screens. Well, I'm two screens. But I definitely have my phone in my hand. So I'm reading the backstory.

about this documentary and seeing the involvement of Oprah. So I can't tell you this without talking about Oprah's involvement. So long story short, this was supposed to come out on Apple, and Oprah Winfrey was backing this and pulled out weeks before it was about to premiere at the Sundance Festival because she says she pulled out because of creative differences. Russell Simmons says she pulled out because he pressured her and had other people who were backing his story. I don't know where the truth lies in that, but I just think the fact that Oprah Winfrey was involved with this.

And I mean, pretty much saw it all the way through until three weeks before says a lot. And the whole time I was watching this, I just couldn't help but tie it into what's happening right now in our country and how we're bringing to light, how black women and their stories are not valued to the level of other stories. And in this social caste system that we have in the United States, black women are at the bottom of the total. poll. And so the fact that these women's stories aren't deemed credible or deemed believable, no charges have been filed against Russell Simmons. L.A. Reed is implicated as well in this documentary. And the fact that these women were afraid to come out and they talk about being a black woman. And then you turn it to what's happening right now in our country about how the stories and the murders of black women at the hands of the police are not being recognized

to the level of as black men. It just shows how. how problematic things are, not just in our country, but for me, also in the black community. I feel like I just went on the wrong tangent, but these are all the thoughts that I had when I was watching this documentary. Say more about what you feel about your place within the black community is like to like...

As a black woman. As a black woman, sure. What do you mean? I mean, I know what you mean, but talk a little bit more about that if you don't mind. I mean, I'm not interviewing you. I'm just saying, I feel like a lot of sisters feel this way And how specifically do you feel? Do you feel?

I mean, as black women, we don't feel valued in the same way that other members of this society are. Whether you're a white man, a white woman, black man, any other race. I have always felt as a black women that our voices weren't heard, that we are stereotyped to a certain way. It's even referenced in this documentary how there is this sexuality, like we're very sexual in nature. And that's how we're looked at by other men as opposed to who we are. as a black woman and what we can bring to the table. And so hearing the stories of these women with Russell Simmons, going back to R. Kelly in the way that he values black women or treated black women.

And then what's happening in our country right now with the Brianna Taylor's and their stories not being recognized, it's just a reminder of how hard and how loud we have to scream as black women to be heard and to be seen. Do you feel unseen by black men? Oh, yes. Definitely. I definitely feel unseen by black men at time.

There's a line or there's a conversation that happens between these women. It's towards the end of this documentary. And as you see these three women sitting in this room talking and sharing about their experience and really just relating to one another. And then one of them says, I believe it was Drew, who talks about that they all look alike. They're all light skin women. with a certain texture of hair. And Drew says, as black women, she's talking about their voices not being valued.

And then she says, I felt like I had to speak up because I'm a light-skinned black woman. And I know that I at least get a little bit more, I'm a little bit more recognized than for the darker-skinned black women. I'm paraphrasing what she says, but that's basically what she's saying.

And so I thought that that was a powerful thing because it also shows how black women are treated within the black community as well. I remember going to school and being told, oh, hearing from certain black men, oh, we only date black women who look like this. Or we date outside of our race because we don't want to date a black woman who looks like this.

And there are these stereotypes that exist within our own community that I found interesting that also came up within this documentary as well. Let me ask you a question. And I have to ask this question. You do want to interview me today. Go ahead then. No, I'm not.

No, I'm asking you. I'm asking you. Do you feel like that this is going to. Where are you going with this? What are you about to say? Wait, wait, seriously. Do you feel like that has anything to do the feelings that you're having about maybe why you didn't marry a black guy? Did you feel unappreciated by black men?

I knew. I know, I'll tell you why. I asked you that because it's a lot of dudes right now, a lot of brothers that, you know, they see Rachel Lindsay and they go, damn, Rachel Lindsay's smart and then they see your husband and they go, oh shit, look at that. And when they hear you talking right now, I promise you, you just put a bunch of brothers in their feelings. Well. She's saying all of this, but yet she's not with a black guy.

You know what I'm saying? This is a great question that I am so happy to address because. Okay. And first of all, I knew this was going to come up. We're in episode five. I'm actually shocked. It took this long, man. I'm actually shocked you didn't question with me before.

But here we are. So the world met me on TV dating on The Bachelor where the Bachelor was white. Then I go on my season and I ends up with a Colombian man who you may not know that by looking at them, but you learn later. Whatever. Just by sight, you can't really tell. So people think that I don't date black men. Little do they know. Well, prior to ever coming on the show, that's all I dated.

And I kind of had to reason with myself of knowing that when I was going to go on The Bachelor, that the type of black man that I date is not going to come on this show. I know that. Take that with you. I'm going to say. I can't. Wait, can I just make an answer? If you listen to our podcast, please also watch it on the YouTube channel so you can understand what's happening here.

Because you don't want to miss these facial expressions and these reactions. What kind of black men? man, did you date? I, I, I, what we're talking about DMX? No, I'm just saying they wouldn't come on the bachelor. There's just a certain type of,

you know what, I'll put it this way. Okay. When I was on the, when I was on the Bachelorette, majority, there might have been two men out of the, out of all the black men, there were two of them who dated black women. In conversation,

I learned that the black men on my season did not date black women, except for two of them. Right. So that's a certain type of man. That's what I'm saying. As a black woman, does it bother you when a black man doesn't date black women? No.

Because I, well, if you say, I'm not going to date black women, then I have a problem that you don't want to date your own race. If you're interested in dating everyone, that's great. I wasn't until I was in my 30s that I said, you know what, I'm going to start really dating outside of my race. And I encourage other people. Like, I was so like, I'm getting so personal. I was like, you know what? My sister married a white man. I cannot.

I like, I got to be a black man. You're like, you're like, I don't want my parents to go 0 for two. I know what? Legit, that was my thinking. And then I was just like, you know what, Rachel, you just got to open yourself up. I was in a five-year relationship with a black man. I thought this was it. It didn't work out.

After that, I thought, you know what? I'm just going to be open up and date who I connect with. And so that's when I started dating outside of my race. Obviously, it worked out for me. But back to what. what you were saying, I grew up hearing black men say that all the time. That never stopped me from dating a black man. I just thought I don't want to date that black man because that black man isn't interested in me. But it didn't stop me from dating black men in general. And that's the only

issue that I have. I can't stand people who say I don't date a specific, their own race. I can't stand that in any race. I feel like, if you want to date other races, that's a beautiful thing. That's great. But I can't stand people who condemn their own race. Very, very again. That's the type of brother that I don't like. Right. Right. Self hatred. So the reason why I wanted to to kind of get your full take on the documentary is because, seriously, like, this is a sticky subject from a lot of different areas, right?

I watch the women and I believe them 100%. Yeah. And that, that, that, that's difficult to say. I'll tell you why it's difficult to say. Yeah. Why is that difficult? Well, because it's Russell Simmons. And I'm going to be honest with you right now.

Like Russell Simmons, look, when you're a young black guy, right? When you're a young black man, you start, the first thing you start, for me, the first thing I worshipped was God, right? Yeah. Give me Jesus. They gave me Jesus. And then right after Jesus came Michael Jackson, right? Listen. I will.

We'll talk. We'll talk. Like right after Jesus came Michael Jackson, right? Same for me as well. So it was Jesus. And then it was like, okay, like literally, I knew who Michael Jackson was before I knew who either Malcolm X or Martin Luther King Jr. was. 100%.

I was just hearing everybody was celebrating him. And then I learned about Dr. King. I learned about all these people and my world starts to get more shape. What happens is that you start to worship certain structures. And one structure that you start to worship and you really feel intertwined with and, like, a part of is hip hop. hip hop as a young man sports were another thing but hip hop and film was another thing for me too just because of my own personal interest but hip hop gave me a way to see guys who weren't that much older than me um get out of their situations and talk to me and minister to me and give me a huge 360 degree view of the world to um as my brother says to transcend my circumstances right and get out of where i was and understand kind of how things were in New York, understand how things were in Miami,

understand how things were in Los Angeles. You know, the first time I was in the first grade, right? And I'm on the bus. I remember the day I was introduced to hip-hop, I'm on the bus. And we're just riding, right? We're riding from the class to this lady that used to keep kids. One day I'm going to tell a story about what happened to her husband, the day I walked on some tables and he decided

that he was going to whip me with a belt. Ooh. He whipped me with a belt. Dallas, Texas. My father's reaction to this was fucking amazing. Once my dad heard this, I'm glad that it didn't go as far as I thought it was going to go.

It's very scared. But anyway, we're on the way there, and I hear somebody in the background, I hear a boy with a headphones on, and he's going, nobody can rap quite like I can't. I take a muscle bound, and put his face in this.

And I'm like, yo, what is he, what is he saying? Like, what is that? And it was L.O. Cool J. And that was when I was introduced. That's crazy. You remember that. Yeah. I remember it because one side of the bus was talking about Back to the Future.

And then the other side of the bus was talking about this song. And it was L.O. Cool Jail. And I tried to find the song. And when I found it, I was like, yo, listen to this. Like, I was tripping. That's Russell Simmons. That's Def Jam. That's Russell.

Simmons. Everything that gets built after that as far as, you know, going on to run DMC, walk this way, the Beastie Boys, Hove comes in, later on, DMS comes in, this Jeff Jam is the spot. It was the gold standard. And at the top of this was this guy who was powerful, who dated models, who was just this, this aspirational figure that you wanted to be. And you don't wake up one morning and form those thoughts. Like they're almost formed for you. Like for you. So true.

Like you grow. Def Jam grows. Russell grows. And as he grows, your idea of what American success evolves along with it. And then years later, after you've gone through all of that and done all of that and been a part of all of that and loved that as much as you have, you learn this. And now your character is being tested. For everyone out there that wants to protect Russell and for everybody out there that doesn't

want to believe what went on in the 90s, I get why they feel that way. But the decision is quite clear. Either you protect your sisters or you don't. And if we make excuse. and if we equivocate, I don't know, if we fail to meet the mark in spots like that, like why would they trust us as brothers, as counterparts, as companions?

Like, I can't look at what Drew was saying and what the other ladies are saying and say that I don't believe them. Yeah. Because the stories seem real. Now, look, Russell Simmons hasn't been convicted, of anything, and he deserves his chance to tell his side of the story. And we should say for the purposes of this podcast that he vehemently denies any claim

of sexual assault or rape. He does. It's all alleged. Alleged. That's what we have to say. All alleged. Yes. He admits that he was a womanizer.

He admits that he was a playboy. A playboy, garish. And then he might have put women in some situations that were on. comfortable, but not to get too graphic for you guys. Drew Dixon says that she went to a stereo to, and he also says something that like, there are situations to where he feels like things could have been misunderstood. Drew Dixon says, yeah, he says that sometimes, you know, things could be misunderstood. He can understand how things, signals got crossed.

Yeah. And everything that they said in the documentary about the culture of that era is 100% true. It was different and it was much more sort of dangerous for women and things were much more cavalier. But what she says

happened was that she was over at the stereo fiddling around for a CD and she turned around, Russell Simmons was naked with a condom on. Yes. And that he pushed her on a bed and raped her. There's no way that situation could be misunderstood. Either it happened or it didn't. And there was another woman who had a very similar story about him standing naked with a condomar.

And there was another woman who said that she was a member of a group, a DJ group up in New York called the Mercedes Ladies, that even in the 80s that Russell Simmons held her down and raped her. I believe them. And that doesn't mean, obviously, you know, Russell Simmons did an interview on the breakfast club. I have no problem with the breakfast club giving him the interview. I do. Let's talk about it. You have a problem with them giving them the interview. I do have a problem with you giving the interview.

I mean, it's because it went into the documentary. It went into the accusations that are out there against him. And I just feel like if I was there, I would not have been a part of it because I don't want to make it seem like I'm complicit with the behavior that I believe is true, right? I believe these women in what they're saying. So if I have this man on my show,

then I feel like I am being. complicit to that. I don't want anybody to be a part of what I'm doing. I don't want to be affiliated. I don't want to be aiding and abetting that who this person is and what they stand for, at least for what I believe. Because again, yes, this is all, these are accusations. He has not been, uh, he had, there are no criminal charges against him as of yet. He has not been convicted of anything. But if I truly believe that what these women are saying are true, I want no parts of this man. So I'm against them giving him a platform to change

the narrative, to speak about something else in a positive way when over your head is hanging these, are hanging these allegations that you mistreat women, sexually assault women. Okay. And that's a fair point. And there were a lot of people on Twitter

that made that point. The reason why I don't have a problem with the interview is R. Kelly was interviewed by Gail King. Prince Andrew got an interview on 2020. if any of these networks right now had an opportunity to interview Harvey Weinstein from jail, they would take the interview.

If even the documentary itself, Rachel, reached out to Russell Simmons to get his side of it. But think of the context of what they were going to talk to him about. They were going to talk to him specifically about this, not to give him the opportunity to defend himself or to promote something else. You know, that's why R. Kelly got upset. That's why it's an iconic interview right now.

R. Kelly actually did exactly what he went there to do. He went there to freak. You know what I mean? He did. He did. Yeah. He wanted to freak out. And so he went there to freak out and make a big show about how innocent he was.

I don't have a problem with anyone who's accused of anything having their opportunity to speak on their own behalf. It's just the way things work. There's the interview came just so people know the Breakfast Club interview. It came from Bali. So he's in Bali right now. there are many people who feel that Russell Simmons is in Bali because it's a non-extradition country. Now, he have been going back and back and forth to Bali for years now, but he has been in

Bali since all of this coronavirus stuff happens. He says that he can't get back here, but he's also been in Bali since he knew that this documentary was going to drop. So you don't know which one that it really is. For me, I don't have a problem with them giving them the interview. I don't have a problem with anyone talking to someone that's been a kid. of anything. Because if that's the case, then if you're going to make a decision about who it is that you believe,

you kind of have to have all of the information or as much of the information as you can. What I do have a problem with is certain parts of what was being said. Like they, I mean, and it has nothing to do specifically with what they, you know, Russell Simmons says in the interview, he says, well, I've taken a lie detector test and I've passed nine lie detector tests. Well, my question is, administered by whom?

Well, those don't even hold up in court. They don't hold. Number one, they don't hold up. And number two, if you're taking a lie detector test court ordered from an independent person as part of a deposition for something else, then that's completely different than going out and hiring somebody on your own dime.

If it's a part of a criminal or civil proceeding taking a lie detector test in that entrance is completely different than then then taking a lie detector test from some dude that you go higher so that he reaffirms that you didn't do anything but why nine times why nine why you got doing nine times isn't one enough maybe two nine times really russell come on now i like i but but my question is and i because i actually agree with what you're saying it was my understanding that he was on the breakfast club to promote something and then the conversation turned to that and that's what there was no way oh the I'm sorry.

No, but that's what I had an issue with because he came on under the guise of promoting something. Yes, the conversation went there, but I wouldn't have even given you the opportunity to promote that. I would have said, we'll do an interview with you if you want to sit down and talk about this documentary. Yes,

but not to promote anything to make you look better. Well, the documentary itself dropped Tuesday. I think the Breakfast Club interview came out Tuesday or Wednesday. It came out, it was coming out, it came out Wednesday morning. So that was the night.

that was the morning after the documentary dropped. So there's no way that he didn't, that the interview, to do the interview with the Breakfast Club on Russell Simmons's part, wasn't tied to the release of the documentary. There was no way that they weren't going to ask him about that and spent a significant amount of time in dealing with it. So that was going to happen.

He did say in an interview that he feels like his voice has been muted and he wants his voice back. stuff like that is the kind of shit that gets on my fucking nerves. Mm-hmm. Because Russell Simmons's voice is not the voice that we should be discussing. Exactly. The voices that we should be discussing and we will discuss and any of those women who want to talk, they have an open forum here.

I don't think the breakfast club has told them they couldn't go on there either. But they have an open forum here to come talk to us. Absolutely. I don't know what detail that they, uh, that they didn't go into on the documentary, but if there's anything else that wants to be discussed, I'll give two things that they could come on and talk about. One is this interview because they were actively tweeting,

at least I know Drew was, tweeting about what she felt about it. And the second thing is when Oprah Winfrey pulled away from doing this documentary and how that felt. I know that Drew has spoken out about it, but I would love to talk to them about how they felt probably neglected, abandoned, not valued in that sense

and really trying to understand why three weeks before the release of it when pretty much everything is done that you pull out. I would love to have that conversation with them. Well, there's some talk, I mean, there was, it was stated that Oprah said

she pulled out because of inconsistencies in the story of Drew Dixon in particular. Three weeks before. Right, three weeks before, let me tell you what I think happened there with as much love and respect for Oprah and Gail as it is possible. Here is the thing about this. Why put Gell in there?

Because Gail is a part of what I'm about to say. Okay. So Oprah and Gail getting lumped in together. And I'll be honest with you, I do have some issues with Oprah and Gail. I have some issues with Oprah. I have some issues with Oprah and Gail with the way that they've treated hip-hop in the past.

I have some issues with Oprah and Gail in Gail. Gil in particular, which we've all talked about with the way she handled a Lisa Leslie interview after Kobe Bryant had passed away. And, you know, just whether or not there's enough nuance to the conversation about black men's place in the continuing discussion of sexual assault and violence in this country. Okay. I don't think it's fair that black men become the face of sexual assault and sexual violence in America. I don't think that that's fair. There is a line between me not thinking that's fair and also what I'm willing to do to protect black women

from some of our brothers who are not getting it. And as a man, you can't be half a man. You can't be a man when it serves your purposes and interests and be not a man when it's something that is hard for you to do and stand up of. That's no man at all. And that's not the stock that I come from. but I think that when that on the heels of the Michael Jackson documentary

and after the Kobe Bryant interview the backlash from that, if you're asking me, was probably a large part of why Oprah decided that she didn't want to be a part of on the record. Because if like Oprah says that she felt like there were inconsistencies in Drew's story, yet she still believed her. She had to say that. As a person who's spoken out about her own experiences with something similar, she had to say that.

But actions speak also louder than words. And three weeks before it's about to come out, that film is done. And the fact that both she and Russell Simmons have, admitted that there was pressure put on her, it just isn't a good look. And that, that, I know she gave an explanation as to why she did it, but to me, it's so unsettling. When you were involved so much into it, this didn't happen over, they didn't ask you to come on at the last minute. You were involved in this. And then you pull out at the last minute. I just think it speaks volumes. And I think it's problematic. The documentary that everyone should check it out, it goes into great detail,

And something else that's pretty uncomfortable is that, you know, the weaponization of sexual assault claims, it's a sticky subject for black men because it's one of the things that has been used to lynch, destroy, kill, and just take rob from black men since we've been here in America. It's been, oh, it's big black buck raped a white woman. We could talk about Emmett Till. We can talk about so many different situations

to where a black man was accused of a sexual crime that he didn't do. lost his life from it, lost his career from it, you know, lost whatever. And so as we move on, even when they talked about Mike Tyson and Desiree Washington and all those things, I remember the way my father and people around me reacted to those stories and they reacted to those stories because they were triggering for them because, you know, in those stories, what you had was a belief that this was the way you took down a population. powerful black man. Even in the case of O.J. Simpson, a belief that his marrying a white woman from

Brentwood and that was, that's the way you get to a black man. You send Delilah in and you take him out because that's the one thing that you get rid of. So, well, well, no, I was just going to add to your point, Clarence Thomas, who they also show, they show the hearings of Clarence Thomas when he was being considered to be on the Supreme Court and they show Anita Hill testifying. He says in there that this is what happens to a black man when they get there. He references that. I'm just want to add that to your point. It's also a documentary. Yeah. So, you know, I'm saying, and when you're, so when you see Russell or when you see to even Bill Cosby or any of these other people, you don't want to believe it at first. You want to believe that it's the same, it's the same

old hat, the same old trick. You don't want to believe it. But the reality is that I'm not saying or I don't think there's anyone that's saying or that all black men are guilty of sexual assault or that the majority of black men are guilty of sexual assault or that there's even a prevalent, not even a prevalence of sexual assault that we are somehow more prone to it. But I am saying that that black man. Yeah. I believe is guilty of sexual assault. And that means I don't get love at Def Jam, then I don't get love at Def Jam. Well, you see at the end of the documentary, they kind of give you an update. And although there were no criminal charges, L.A. Reed stepped down in 2017 as the chairman and CEO at Sony Music. They say don't meet your heroes. You never should meet the people that you admire.

But, I mean, these days it's feeling like you don't even want to know anything about them. I don't want to know anything. And one day, now is not the time. you know we're going to have to talk about Michael. And with that, I'm going to let you change the subject. Because you mentioned it. I'll be honest with you. It's different, but whatever.

No. Oh, my goodness. I'll be honest with you, it's different. But whatever. No, no, change the subject. Because that will be the whole podcast. It's different. It's different.

But whatever, it's not the same. I'm not like, it's not the same. I'll tell you what is the same. We love Michael the same. We just see it differently. We just see it differently. It's different. I only want to get into it right now.

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Millions of business owners already trust. Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. June 10th. Are you excited about June teeth this year? This year. I mean, June Teeth, I'm from Texas.

So I feel like June Teeth is a bigger deal in Texas more than it is nationwide. Am I excited about Junete? That's completely no. That's not true. Wait, wait. Oh, you want to say Louisiana celebrates it even more? I don't think there are a lot of celebrations, period, about Juneteenth. Juneteenth is June 19th, by the way, you guys.

You're out of your, no, first of all, before you've been explaining to the people that don't know what Juneteenth is, you don't get to just say, I'm sick of this Texas bullshit, by the way. Okay, I barely mention my state. But it's like, I understand that Texas is dope, right? Texas, you got it. I feel like I hit a sore spot. Keep going. Yeah, I'm sick of it. I am.

Anyway. No. Texas does not get more, to have more Juneteen celebrations. But we should say this. Juneteenth celebrated everywhere is when you like used to get like the Juneteenth concert in your town is when like Roger Troutman and Zap. And like Frankie Beverly and Mays would come out and show out.

It'd be crazy barbecue. Juneteeth is the celebration of the freeing of the slaves in Texas. My point. Thank you. My point. Why we celebrate it even bigger. It has become though the, the, I guess,

national African black Why would I even say African American? I don't say that. It's become the national black American celebration of the free and of the slave. So when you, we celebrate on June 10th. June 19th, there's a barbecue, there's a concert,

there's whatever. Now here's a thing. Like everything else, no one celebrates with us. You do not get the day off from work. You get nothing. A celebration of freeing the slaves which should be one of the most joyous occasions in America, right?

The end, a celebration to celebrate, the end of the darkest, most embarrassing period, most in humane period in American history gets national recognition of zero from our country. Yikes, whatever, guys. But no, this June 19th, this Juneteenth, we got a new, we got somebody else. are celebrating with us. Wait.

Is it, and going on what you say about not getting national recognition, don't you feel weird hearing on CNN or whatever people say Juneteenth and then explain what it is? I'm like,

they've never, ever covered anything about Juneteenth. And now it's on everybody's radar. But go ahead. Tell them who's celebrating with us. So how, why it's getting so much attention? Donald Trump.

So, Donald Trump, the president of, you know, whatever, Donald Trump is having a rally, I guess his first big rally in a while. Since March 2nd. Since March 2nd in Tulsa. Now, that is also significant because Tulsa is the site of one of the other worst moments in American history. a lot of the worst moments in American history have to do with the treatment of black Americans, which were the Tulsa, the slaughter of Black Wall Street in Tulsa, which if you guys don't know what happened,

there was a thriving and sublime culture and part of Tulsa that was run by black people. They had black businesses. They had banks. They had all of these great things. And to be honest with you, I think it was a false sexual assault claim. Yes, no, it was. Yeah, it was certainly a false sexual assault claim that was used as motivation for the white part of Tulsa or a neighboring white place to go in and over the course of a couple of days just murder black people.

Just kill them up. Yeah. And these weren't race riots. This wasn't anything like that. This was the intentional killing. of a thriving, vibrant part of Black America. Black people who were living the American dream for themselves who have figured it out.

And so there's been a lot of talk about Tulsa lately. They've been a lot of talk about places like Rosewood lately. They've been a lot of talk about what happened in Atlanta at the beginning of this century lately. And so I think President Trump... Seneca Village was another one. Seneca Village. I think President Trump is seizing the opportunity here,

the times that we're in, to go and talk to black people. He's doing hashtag black rally from President Trump on Juneteenth. We can't even fucking have Juneteenth now without having some weird taste on our mouth. What do you think about this? I mean, just, first of all, I would like to say when Van is describing what happened in Tulsa back in 1921, when this happened, people didn't talk about it. It's just now, not just now, but it started to come about later in the later years. No, you can say that just now because we always knew. in terms of black people.

But in terms of on a national conversation about the tragedy that happened in Tulsa, it's not taught. You don't really hear about it. No one really discusses it all. I think you're right. And then when it was first talked about, they said that there were about 30-something people

who actually died. It was at least 300. Right. And all the businesses were burned. So I just want to, it was a racial massacre. That's how you need to look at it. This is how I feel about it. Just imagine.

Just close your eyes. for a second and think, Donald Trump is standing in Tulsa. The backdrop has Confederate flags and make America great and Trump flags flying in the air. It's on the day where we celebrate the emancipation of slaves. And then it's in a place where we were literally massacred on a false accusation and really out of jealousy of the success that blacks had built in this country. And that is the day. You should highlight that part that. that there was there was and I didn't I'm sorry but that there was jealousy from not even jealousy a lot of these black business owners in on black wall street in Tulsa were doing better than

their white counterparts and there had been a longstanding history of sort of animus about the fact that they were doing so well absolutely so just imagine that and knowing all of that and you have people in Congress that are upset about this that are complaining to Donald Trump about He could easily pick another day. But no, he's picking this day. And I don't think it's a data that he's like, I actually want to honor Juneteenth. This to me is Donald Trump saying a big fuck you to black people. And a big, yes, sorry, mom, there's no other word.

That's what I feel like he's saying. And it's a rally for white people, white supremacists. Those supporters that will be waving those type of flags at this rally that he's for the first time ever, this is the date you pick? Come on now. I'll be honest with you. I don't think that's the point in this rally. I think Trump is going to be.

It's a presidential rally. I know, I know. But I think in this particular rally, Trump is going to make an attempt to reach out to the black community. Oh, hell. Let's take a, let's do a poll. Let's do a poll. And we're going to do a Twitter poll.

Do you think Trump's Juneteen celebration is to celebrate blacks in America? Wait. Hold on for a second. Hold on a second. Let's make sure we get this right. I'm not saying that it's going to be a genuine attempt, a good attempt, but I think that what he is trying to do is going into an election year, an election in November, seeing kind of what the country is, Trump is going to get all of the Trump blacks,

all of his Trump blacks, his Trumpians out there. In Tulsa. In Tulsa. He's going to fly him in. Okay. I guarantee you that when you see the Make America Great a thing, Make a great again thing in the background? I can't even fucking say it. You can't even say it because you hate it.

When you see it in a, you're going to see tons of black faces on that stage with Donald Trump. He's going to try to do that, though. There's always some minorities standing behind him saying Latinos for Trump, blacks for Trump. That's always the case at the rallies. We always see those fill-ins. But no, I think it's the exact opposite. I think it is an election year. And at this point, there's so much that's happening with the economy.

which was what he was standing on before. There's unemployment going on. There's the pandemic. And you've got all these racial issues in the country. Trump's like, you know what? That's a lost cause. I got to appeal to the people who voted for me the first time. So that's all this rally is doing to him.

He is appealing to the audience that is going to elect him. He has given up, I think, at the black vote at this point. So this is what Kaylee. Oh, her. Her. How are you saying her name? Her. Kaylee.

It's like they. McKinney. McKinney. It's like they spit them out. She used to be on CNN. I remember her. It's like they spit them out of a, like a conveyor belt. It's like you press a button. It's an Ann Coulter. You press a button. You press a button. It's like a conveyor belt. You know, whatever. It's a Tommy. It's a Tommy Laron. A Tommy. She says he will, she says Trump will share some of the progress that has been made for Black Americans. Okay. And she says that the black American community is near and dear to President Trump's heart. And at this, we near and dear. Exactly.

It's near and dear to his heart. And so he's going to share a lot of what he's done, citing criminal justice reform, funding for HBCUs. And he's working on rectifying other injustices. So it's a meaningful day for him. and he's going to talk to black people. That's what Kaylee McAnnemerry. McKinony. McKinony.

McKinney. Kaylee McConnor. That's what she said during the... This is her job. She is the press secretary. This is what she does. She speaks because we no longer can do press conferences with Trump anymore. So now this is what she does.

She speaks on his behalf. She's speaking because he's being criticized for having it on this day. Now, black people are going to be out celebrating on Juneteenth. They're not going to be at this rally listening to what Trump has to say about what really digging deep to try to figure out what he's done for the black community when there's a laundry list of things he's done against the black community that he showed his hand about how he truly feels about blacks. You can go all the way back to the 70s with that. I mean, come on. This is a big F you. So here's the thing about President Trump.

President Trump was running for president, right? And when he was running for president, he got support and endorsements from various white supremacy groups, right? Including the mascot, the American mascot for white supremacy, who's David Duke. Okay. From? David Duke is from Louisiana. Okay. Okay.

David Duke is from Louisiana. You know what? You know what? You know, I'm going to. Let's look up a list of fucked up people from Texas. That's that like, you know, it's like David Duke is from Louisiana. People might not know who he is, and I just felt like we just needed to give some more background.

But go ahead. You're right. The mascot. I found somebody from Texas. Adolf Hitler was born right outside of Houston. I'm looking at this right now. I'm looking at this right now. It says, Hitler was born right outside of the Houston.

He's from, you know, those Beaumont, the Beaumont Hitler family. It would be Viter. It would be Viter. Viter. Viter or Sugarland. The Sugarland Hitler's. No. No, but so President Trump refused to disavow or distance himself or condemn

is a better word while Van does his word search. An endorsement from David Duke. Yeah. That's all I to know. The white supremacists, the white supremacists both in action and in thought that are surrounding President Trump will be empowered as long as he's in office. He refuses to depower them. And white supremacy when we're talking about that, we're not talking about something that results even in the lynching that has happened to black people before. We're not talking about the terrorist acts that have happened to black Americans like what happened with the

Black Wall Street massacre. We're talking about an entire system. of white supremacy. In a system of white supremacy, the oftentimes the horrific crimes are the least dangerous part. And that seems weird to say because the crimes are a lot of times so egregious that they

get sympathy and they get people's emotions worked up. So when you see a black man get dragged until his head falls off, when you hear stories about people being hung and having their balls cut off and all of those things like that. Those are things that most rational Americans would look at and think that's horrible for that to happen to a human being. The other parts about white supremacy that get empowered by guys like Trump are the parts that you can't see that are actually working every second or every day to maintain an American status quo where black Americans can't access their, part of the American dream. And those are things like federal judges that the president would appoint.

Those are things like about oversight. Those are things about funds that would get to black people and black neighborhoods all over the place. To sort of political people or politicians, should I say, that President Trump has to empower in order to do what he is. The Trump administration has empowered the worst group of federal judges. in terms of civil rights in a generation, maybe ever. So that's the work being done against the black community that it's impossible to see, but the type of work that can only be done if there is someone who values the support of white supremacists in the White House, who values their supports.

Now, I'm not saying that there haven't been other presidents who valued that. I'm not saying that at all. I'm sure that there's a large basis of people that come even from, I joke about Louisiana, that come even from my home state, that value that support as well because it's a stable base. But this president has been, to me, very, very, very public, overt, and forthcoming about the types of people that he likes to surround himself with.

And that threatens the fabric of America. So then that's why you have to look at the fact that he is, of all days, starting his campaign rallies on Juneteenth. It is a big effute to black people, especially with what's going on in this country right now. And there is no acknowledgement by the president to mend it, to fix it, to recognize it when you're honoring a police force by saying 99% of them are good and there's no systemic racism. When you refuse to rename U.S. Army facilities that are named after Confederate leaders, when you want to keep statutes up, when you when you honor the Confederate flag, all of that is a big F you to black people. And so I feel like the fact that he's doing this

on this day goes into that. Trump has a long history of saying racist, you know, xenophobic, whatever things that are against the black community. And the only things he stands on are that I love black people. I like, you know, I like black people. That's what he'll say or he'll talk. about the job increase with with black people since he's been the president. He's going to talk about at the rally. He's going to he's going to talk about $250 million that he didn't give to HBCUs. He stopped it from not expired. He's also probably going to talk about the First Step Act.

And the First Step Act was, and we'll give America credit for at least getting this right, the First Step Act was bipartisan criminal justice reform that passed under the Trump administration. So he's certainly, and there are going to be people there that are going to be able to say that they got out of jail during the Trump administration. Alice Johnson and people like that. So he's probably going to say that. What I'm saying is he doesn't have

a real case, but he's going to make the case. He's going to try to make the case to black Americans. The people who will write me about when I say something about the president on my social media always bring up those two things. It's two things. That's all that they say.

They forget everything else that he's done. And I think that he's showing his hand in what we have going on right now in our country and the fact that there is no, there's no effort to fix it or to even recognize and acknowledge it shows me all that I need to. So I, I mean, are you going to be tuning in on Junetee to the rally? I don't watch that. I don't watch that shit. And no and most, and neither will most black Americans. Right. Except for maybe the 8% that voted for him. This is what Kaylee said, the 8% that voted for him last. What's your feelings on the Confederate flag?

You know? Talk about it. Can you re-ask the question? What's my feelings on the Confederate flag? I mean, I hate it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I hate it. You know, we had this.

Go ahead. Better question. What's your feeling on large portions of the country's inability to see why you hate the Confederate flag? Well, okay. We've been joking all podcasts about. this, but we're both from the South. You're from Louisiana. I'm from Texas. So it is not abnormal to see the Confederate flag on the back of a car. I remember the school I went to. There were kids who either had it on their cars, maybe had a picture of it in their, in their locker.

And it always is a very daunting presence for me. I can feel myself tightened up and become a bit fearful whenever I see a person that is using that as a symbol. And that's because of what it represents to black people. And we all know that what it was representing in the 19th century and with secession and the union and the defense of slavery and the rejection of patriotism and nationalism. We all get that. But what I think people don't realize is then there was the Confederate flag. It was still around. But it was kind of, you didn't really see it arise anywhere. And the reason it came back is because they were using it to condemn the civil rights movement. Whites who were against it brought the Confederate flag back as a symbol to reject what was happening in the country

for African Americans, there I am like you, blacks fighting for their equality in this country. They use the Confederate flag as a symbol to oppose that. That is why when I see it, I immediately affiliate racist with it. I affiliate racism with it. I don't pay attention to NASCAR because I know where this conversation is going. I've never been to a race. We've got Texas Motor Speedway, which is not far away from where I grew up. Never wanted to affiliate it. It's not for us.

Similar to the way we think about the Bachelor franchise, NASCAR is not for us. We know that. When I saw, since NASCAR's been a topic right now in the news, the picture, the video of the Confederate flags flying in the air, you know, whether it was their tellgate or infield or wherever they have it. It was the scariest feeling to me. I did not know that that's what it was like. And I can't believe Bubba Wallace was driving in this type of environment. It's not welcoming.

It scares me. And it's a symbol of racism. It is not a symbol of Southern Pride at all. If you know what the flag stands for, I feel like you almost have to have a history lesson on that, similar to why you tell people non-black people they can't say the N-word. You need to understand the deep rooted history of what that flag represents and why it's waved in the air and pulled out. And who are the type of people they wave it? Right.

So there's no passive way to wave the Confederate flag. I mean, and we should say something about the Confederate flag and people who are, who romanticize the Confederacy in general. So I made a joke about Hitler a little bit earlier, right? But there is something that's true regarding Hitler, the Nazis, and, you know, Germany. So the Nazis come in and they come in almost as an alien force that takes about 13, 14, 15 years, not really, about 10, 12, 13 years to take hold in Germany. But at some point, Germany, after what went on in World War I, in the midway, in the break, and then to World War II, becomes susceptible to a demigog and to a guy like Adolf Hitler. The Nazis take hold of Germany. The majority of the country goes along with it. Okay. Great sin. They kill millions of people, six million Jews, six million other people. They wage a world war where they occupy France. They invade England, all of these things like they. They do horrible, horrible things. At the end of the Nazis reign, the world gave Germany a choice.

reconcile and denotify yourself. Erase the most heinous, dangerous, and really sad part of your history, or you can't rejoin the world community. You can't be a part of the world community unless we are one. 100% crystal clear that the Nazis aren't going to rise in Germany again. Okay. And so, Germany had to denotify. There's a fantastic book called Exercising Hitler, written by a guy named Frederick Taylor, that'll tell you about the links that Germany had to go through in order to get the

stain of the Nazis off them. That's a beautiful thing to me. Tell you why that's a beautiful thing. And it was a concerted effort. to make sure that they had gotten rid of that. That same effort to reconcile, to decontaminate, to build a new American society has never been made for Black Americans. We have been told that we need to get over what happened,

not just to our great-grandfathers, but to our grandfathers. grandmothers are aunts and uncles and everyone, going all the way back from great, great, great to great to great to on and to now. You're privileged to live in America. You're privileged to be here. Forget about it. Get over it. On top of that,

we're expected to live and build a society with people who keep reminding us about the point in our lives where we were less than human. Yeah. as far as this country was concerned. So in Louisiana, there is no statue of PBS pinchback who was the first black governor of Louisiana, only served for a little while, but ended up nearly becoming a senator, fought with, is a group down in New Orleans called the native unit that was made up, fought in the Union Army. There's no, there are no statues of him. Right. Right.

None statues of him, but there are statues of Borigar and their statues of Jackson and their statues of Lee. And their statues of all of these people who not only were they racist, but they were losers. So here in America, I'm to be told that black winners mean less than white losers. Right. Black people who fought on the side of just and gregers. good, which is what the Union Army, at least as far as history is concerned, represented because it represented the end of slavery, don't matter as much as guys who tried with all of their will and all of their might to continue slavery, to continue a system of degradation

for black people, and to treat us like shit. So when people say that the Confederate flag is Southern pride, you don't get to. to make that decision. You don't get to make, you don't get to redefine something that has a very clear definition. Well, oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's it. And so that's it. And so to be honest with you, it's, it's not just a stupid argument, but in of itself, it's an offensive one. Just say what the fuck you want to say to me because your shirt or your bumper sticker or your flag or your fucking.

statue is already saying it. Right. Just talk to me like you want to talk to me. Say what the fuck you want to say and we can get it out the mud some other way. Yeah. And don't hide behind the flag and act like it's a Southern Pride thing. Because my thing is, I never understood that when they would say that because there are a million other things that you could pick to have Southern Pride to represent that other than the Confederate

flag. The Confederate flag represents treason. It doesn't represent anything about being a peasant. Patriot of this country or nationalism or anything like that. It truly represents treason in addition to the defense of slavery and something negative to black people. I just will never understand why they try to hide. No. Take that back.

I know exactly why they try to do it. But to defend it or to defend the people who represent that, you got a president who is sitting here calling these people heroes. He is deeming them. You say they're losers and you are 100% correct, but you got a president who doesn't want to remove these statues, who doesn't want to remove, change the names of these army facilities because he regards them as heroes. Heroes of our country.

He doesn't regard them as anything. Fucking President Trump doesn't know who Stonewall Jackson is. President Trump, like, he doesn't, man. Like President Trump doesn't know. But that's what he says. about Robert Lee. He doesn't know shit about Jefferson Davis. No, I agree with you.

Like, he doesn't know, he doesn't know anything about any of those guys. What he does know, though, is that his base thinks that they are heroes. That's what I was about to say. That's what people need to realize. Everything that he is doing at this point is for the election. We are in an election year. When he opened up churches again, that was him playing into his base and his audience of the people who will vote for him.

The reason he will not condemn the Confederacy and the people who fought within it and the flag and what it represents is because this is his audience. You have to understand this. That he is at least smart enough to know that. He might not know who these people are, but he knows that. You don't know shit, man. Sick of it. Election, you said the President Trump is trying to run an election. You know who's trying to make sure that he doesn't win that election?

LeBron James. LeBron James is getting out there. He's mobilizing again. You can't say that LeBron doesn't fucking put his money in his time where his mouth is. He now has a new initiative. It's called More Than a Vote, I think it's called. Is it more than a vote? That's what it is.

And so LeBron James is mobilizing kids, African Americans, not just African Americans, but people, the young whippersnappers, okay, that are sort of that he resonates with. to get out there and vote, to register to vote, and I think if I'm right about this, he is focusing his effort on getting voters in the swing states. Am I right about this? Or is this just like a nationwide thing?

Because I had heard that it was going to be about the swing states, but maybe it is not. I think I'm like looking at it as I'm talking to you. I think it's a nationwide thing because we've been talking about this whole, what happened to voter die? What happened to voter die? And you talked about some of the things

that they wish that they had rectified or fixed when it came to the, the whole voter die campaign, but that's what this is. And so I know that it's aimed to inspire blacks to register and to cast a ballot, but it's also going to educate them about certain things like voter suppression. And I love this, okay? I'm not the biggest LeBron James fan, but I love everything he does off the court. And I love that he has always said he wants his legacy to go beyond the basketball court.

And the fact that he's doing this and he's leading this and he's leading this. and he's recruiting other athletes to help him out with this, makes me the biggest fan of him. And even a lot of times when we talk about voting, we talk about just you got to get registered to vote. You got to get registered to vote. But what he's doing, this more than a vote campaign, is educating you on what it actually is that you're voting for

and how to vote. And I love it that he's equipping you with the tools you need when you go cast your ballot. It's almost like a tutorial. That's what I'm gathering with this, which is bigger than vote or die. So you don't vote necessarily by party. You know exactly what it is you're voting for.

And I think it's important to be educated because when you face somebody who votes against you, you can tell them exactly why you're voting, you know, for this person or against it because you're going to be equipped with that knowledge. I love this. I'm all about this. It's a beautiful thing. Thank you, LeBron James, for this. Yeah, I love it, especially in the context that it exists in.

Number one, when you think about it, Hillary lost 2016 by about 80,000 votes. that was the difference, right? So the three states, you look at Wisconsin, I think Michigan, and then Pennsylvania. If you look at those three states, if Hillary does a point better in each place, she wins. Okay?

So you talk about 80,000 votes separated, and I'm doing the electoral math right there, 80,000 votes kept Hillary out of the White House. And, you know, I know that people have issues with Hillary claim. They have issues with the Clintons. And I'll be the first person to admit, rightfully so. If you have issues with Joe Biden, rightfully so. When you look at Joe Biden's record, when you look at some of the things that the Clintons have been involved in, it's completely not just okay.

If you were educated on it, you'd be a fucking fool not to have some issues. The question is, what is it that you're voting for, right? What is you voting for? Right now, Mitch McConnell's the most powerful man in the country. Miss McConnell says what goes. Ms. McConnell wields a lot of power in terms of being able to move the engine of politics in our world right now. So when you're voting, you're not just voting for the president. You're going to vote down ballot.

And also, you're essentially voting for Ruth Bader Ginsburg. You're essentially voting for Supreme Court nominations and the future of World v. Wade. You're essentially voting for so many things like that. And if Joe Biden doesn't do it for you or if Hillary Clinton doesn't do it for you, maybe having the rights over your body might do it for you. Maybe down the line voting for governors who might not fuck up districts and redraw lines so that your people don't have as much of a say in state and local politics. Maybe that might do it for you.

but you need to chalk up your values and see what kind of country you want to live in. And sometimes that means that you get a less than ideal candidate in the number one slide. And I'm going to be honest with you, if I looked up less than ideal candidate in the fucking dictionary, there would be a fucking gigantic picture of Joe Biden. I'm waiting for Joe Biden. I wouldn't be surprised if on June 3rd. Joe Biden did like a like a cross sort of counter rally to Donald Trump and went, listen, you guys know me. I wasn't there with Barack Obama.

He was great. He loved me. Okay. And he was just about the best color guy I ever met. No. I'm waiting for some, I'm waiting for some shit like that to happen. We already heard it. You ain't black.

Right. I'm waiting. So what I'm saying is obviously not the perfect candidate, but there are so many more things on the ballot. When I say on the ballot, there are so many more things that you vote for other than demand his blood in his DNA. There's more stuff. There's a whole apparatus that you're voting. But that's why I love this initiative that LeBron is doing because I don't know all what it's going to entail. I mean, this has just been announced, but I am hoping that it lets you know those things. when you vote for the president, you're not just voting who gets the title and who's going to be living in the White House. It is about who is appointing federal judges on the district, the appellate, the Supreme Court level, all that matters. Like you said, these cases that have been pretty much like how we navigate the judicial system for so long are on the verge of being overturned.

You know, even on a, like you said, with the governors, on a local level, it's just so important to know what it exactly is. as you're voting for. And I think that's why people feel like their vote doesn't matter and their vote doesn't count because they don't understand exactly what it means when you cast that ballot,

how much power you have in that. And for nothing else, and I always say this, and it still baffles my mind that it used to say this to black people. People died so we could vote. If nothing else, exercise the right that people fought, not people,

your people, fought so hard for. I just don't understand what you wouldn't. You know, it's crazy. You know what's, I actually don't like it when people say that. You know why? Why? Like, because I said it.

No. That's not why, Big Rache. I don't like it wise because, like, people die so that black people could do everything. Like, why, wait, wait, why, white, why. It's like saying it's like, I get it. I get the sentiment, but it's like, that would be like me not going to get lunch at Denny's. And then someone going. No, it's not that.

You need to go get lunch at Denny. You need to go get lunch at Denny's because people died so you get lunch at Denny's. They died so you could sit in a restaurant. But that's true. People died so that I can go to Denny's. But you exercise that every day. People die so that I could ride the bus. But you exercise that.

There's nothing that you could do as a black person that people didn't die so that you could do it. But you have a choice now. It's very true. You know what I'm saying? Before there was no choice. You couldn't, now you can decide. You know what?

I don't want to go sit in an integrated restaurant. That wasn't given to you. I want to go. I mean, to be honest with you, Denny's might not be the safest place to go. I mean, Dennis just has these issues, but I like going to sit down. And so I'm happy that people got their asses busted just so I could go eat at lunch. What a fuck. God, God damn.

Look, I'll say this. You said that your vote doesn't matter. And I'm going to be honest with you. I'm going to level with you guys. Some of y'all, your vote doesn't matter. I'm going to be real with you. I'm going to keep it all the way gangster. Like if you live here in L.A., I got bad news for you.

Your vote doesn't really matter. In terms of president, it doesn't matter. I want you to go out and vote, and the reason why is because I want people to get, I want to see a more active engaged American electorate, but just to let you know, I don't mean to, like, fuck with the drama. He doesn't mean that, you guys.

He doesn't mean that. But what I'm telling you, this is why I'll tell you, I'll tell you, if you live in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania If you live in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida. Oh, I know. I'm changing my license just for this.

Ohio even. Maybe Virginia, there are a lot of states in there. I'm saying you don't just matter. You fucking really matter. Like, we need you young kids. You got all the fucking time in the world to play Fortnite or like, go and hang out with Lil Uzi Virt or whomever.

You sound like the oldest person in the room. I'm just, I'm telling you guys, I'm telling you guys, everybody that protested, I swear to you, if you mobilize in November, the same way that you protested, at least we can begin to have a functional conversation about changing some of the systems in America. Now, let me tell you this. this is not me saying that the Democrats are your friends. I am not saying that.

You have no friends. Okay. Like you don't. But what I'm saying is if we're going to leverage our culture to get to make a better America for not just black Americans, but for the entire country, for other parts of this country that have been overlooked and put to the background. And like when I say working people, I mean working people are losing with income inequality. Working people are fucking losing

with COVID. Working people. Working people are being left behind in America. And we have to change that. And the political apparatus is going to be a part of that prescription to change it. That's all.

That's it. I'm not about to, I'm not saying, hey, I'm a registered independent. I'm a liberal. I'm a liberal as fuck. But I don't believe that. I knew you were going in.

I was going to independent. Well, what do you mean you knew I was going to independent? Well, I mean, you're like Democrats aren't our friends, Republicans are our friends. I get it. Independent. Like, I, yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. I was an independent. It seems like, it seems like it's a little judginess in your voice.

Not at all. Right. Not at all. I am one of those people who is, you know, I'm from Texas. I am literally changing my license right now to Florida so I can vote in Florida because I know this state needs my vote. Texas might be in play. I'm going to do Florida. I get you. Texas?

I'm just letting you know. Texas might be in play. The Texas is like Texas will. The major cities in Texas are all like everything in surround. No, I'm not surrounding. But Texas is, yeah, it's on the verge because of the bigger cities for sure. By the way, here on the higher learning podcast, we're going to have all the experts you need to hear on all of this stuff like checking in right here.

We're going to give you all the information that you need in terms of, you know, balloting how we beat voter suppression is going to be very, very important. One thing that the LeBron thing is doing is if the more people you can get out, there's going to be widespread voter suppression come November.

The more people you get out, the more you can fight some of the voter suppression that exists in this country. We're going to see it everywhere. We just saw it in Georgia, people standing and waiting six or seven hours to try to vote.

That is trying to get people not to vote. Exactly. They're scared of your vote. They're scared of your power. Exactly. And that was just the primaries. So people are, I ain't coming back for November if this is how it's going to be. No, 100% right.

Yes. I love that. We will have people out here. Okay. Are we going to talk protesting? We're going to touch on a little bit. No, I mean, I don't, I feel like there's not a whole lot to say other than you guys protesting. If you had asked me before, if we would still be protesting here weeks after the murder of George Floyd, I wouldn't have believed it.

But I love to see it. And I want to know, I want everyone to know that your protesting is having effects on what's happening in this country. It's a whole, there's a whole movement behind it. I mean, TV shows are getting canceled. Movies are getting ripped from streaming services. People are getting fired from their jobs. I mean, it's, if you are not on the right side of this, you're out. And that is because you guys are out in these streets, marching protesting, using your voices, fighting for what you believe is right.

So all I have to say is keep it going. Yeah. Keep doing it. The world will change as much as you pressure it to. I will say this. Don't just protest though. Like, go into a bank with Kentay Calato on and ask for a home loan. I'm serious.

Like, don't just leave it. I got you on the latter part. Like, don't just leave it at the protesting, right? Man, put some pressure on Bank of America. Oh, Bank of America. You down with Black Lives Matter? Guess what? I want to open a soul food joint.

What kind of collateral do you have? I have 400 years of collateral. Give me $150,000 now. If not, we show up outside the Bank of America. Put your kitet cloth on. And by the way, this is not just white people. Kinti cloth now is a sign. It's for everybody.

Hey, white people in these cities. Get you some Kintech cloth, man. Get out there. Since we all, since we make it, since everything is a fucking, get out there. Your Kintay cloth. You know what I'm saying? It's crazy. I can't go.

Living a Kintech Kla, the world. There's going to be a flag. That's going to be the new thing that's waving in NASCAR. Oh, oh, that's the best idea. Ding that. I need a ding right there. This is the first fantastic idea that Rachel Lidgey has had. And we will, she will have more.

But that is, you know what? Hold on. Fuck it. We just came up with something. NASCAR, if you really want to show how down you are, forget about just getting rid of the, because you get rid of a flag, so what? You need another flag.

Fly that KC. Kinti cloth flag. I want to see Kintech Kloff flags at all NASCAR events. Make us feel welcome. You already got a Black Lives Matter car. That's what Bub is driving. Make us feel appreciated. What's one thing NASCAR could do to make you feel appreciated and welcome at a race?

Well, I already told you. But in addition to that, right before the, you know how like when it's Canada and U.S. at a game, basketball game, you hear both anthems, I would like to hear Lift Every Voice and Sing played right after the national anthem or before. If you're real, play it before. Would that make you so welcome? You have issues with Lift Every Voice and Sing? Come on.

I don't have issues with Lift Every Voice and Sing. I love the song, but I just think it's songs that Black people like more. You know what I mean? They may. But that, I feel like there's like a history of it, if that's what it represents. I feel like my sister, my sister went to Spelman and she said that was one of the things they made her memorize when she first got there. And watch school days. Your sister went to Spelman and she's still married a white dude.

That's crazy. I'm not going to let you sit on this podcast. You dog my sister like that. Yes, she did. Ann? Man, good for her. I'm not tripping. Like, she, like, undercooked meat.

That's all on her. Like, I'm not tripping. Love who you love. It's serious. I don't give a fuck. Good for y'all. Like, great, all I want to see is happy people. That's what people would be happy, Rachel.

It's what people would be happy. But yeah, I think that if you play what's going on, black people would go crazier than if you played, lift every voice and seen. And they probably know the words more to what's going on. And they do love every voice and sing. I agree. But no, but to answer your question,

that would make me feel welcome. and what would make you feel welcome? What made me feel? What a good question? Barbecue. Maybe barbecue in the tailgate. Like, what do we do? Wow.

Maybe if there was like a... I don't know. That's a good question. I'm going to think about that for the next podcast. In the next podcast, what we're going to do... The next podcast, we're going to come with a comprehensive plan for NASCAR. NASCAR is on it. We're going to come with a package.

package for NASCAR. It's our job. We're going to come up. As a matter of fact, do me a favor. Everyone that listens to higher learning, all of our thought warriors, hit me and Rachel up on the internets, on the Twitter's fears, on the social media's, all of this. Give me a good package for NASCAR. What can NASCAR do to really get black people in the stands?

I want to know what do you think they should do. hashtag NASCAR package. And then we're going to take this package and we're going to use it in other sports, right? We're going to then give it to the National Hockey League. Okay. Maybe give it to curling. Okay.

Maybe give it to golf. You know what I'm saying? We got to start a whole new movement here. Right, right. It's time. It's time. Okay. So we're going to the end.

But before we come to the end, I'm going to ask you, can I have a little? little space. Of course. Okay. So, yesterday, I lost a friend and the culture lost a friend. A woman named Jazz Waters, Jasmine Waters, Jazz Fly on Twitter. She was absolutely brilliant. She was a writer. She was an essayist, a blogger. She had written movies. She had written books. But more than anything, she was a light. A fantastic individual, a fierce ally of anyone who needed a voice,

an activist, all of those things. She was amazing. Jazz, earlier this week, took her own life. We found out about it yesterday. And it was devastating. I don't have the, I met Jazz through Charlemagne some years ago. And one of the greatest sort of testaments to the impact that she had on everyone was when I was talking to people yesterday about her passing, people continuously said,

I don't know if you remember, but Jazz introduced us. I don't know if you remember, but she's the reason why I know you. I don't know if you remember, but she gave me my first read or my first writing job or whatever. It's,

when something like this happens, it's like you struggle for ways to sort of figure out, like, how things could have been different and like what everyone who knew her and loved her and the outpouring of love has been from every side of this industry and this culture. You know, she wrote on kidding. She wrote on This Is Us.

She wrote the Will Packer movie, What Women Want. She just had so much great work. And she was always, always, always, always, always creating. I want to make sure that people realize the moment that we've been in in the last couple of months. a lot of people who depend on sort of outside forms of structure who depend on maybe going out, being around people, maybe connecting with people in creative ways and social ways, they haven't had that. And instead what they've had to do is sit in some of the parts of themselves that might pull on them and maybe pull them off of a cliff. So when I think about my friend and I think about what happened, I think about other people in my life that I can provide structure for

and give them soft beds to lay on when things get hard. And we get caught up in what's going on with us. We get caught up in what's going on with our lives. But it really matters being attached to people. It really matters feeling close to them. It really matters feeling that they feel that they're a part of something. And more than anything, that's why I think she wanted for everyone, which is why she was so keen on getting people together.

One time when Black Panther came out, jazzed through an event where 500 kids that weren't going to be able to see the movie got a chance to go and see the movie. She brought out Little Yachty. and Migos. And she herself had been adopted and she knew what film and television, how it empowered her,

and she just wanted somebody else to feel that feeling. And the biggest part of this is that when she needed it, nobody could make her feel that feeling. So more than anything, make someone feel that feeling of inclusion and love and fulfillment

and race if you can. There's a lot wrong, but every day you can be somebody's right. I'm going to miss my friend. We're going to ask ourselves questions, but hopefully her life has been a testament and she's not defined by how her life ended. She's defined by what she did every single day to enrich everybody else's lives. and I just want her to know that I love her.

I want everyone that's in pain from this to know that I feel that same pain and that hopefully in some way that when the wound scabs over, it'll be tougher to break the next time. But I love you, Jazz. And that's it. I just wanted to take the time to say that. And everybody be well. I'm sorry to end the podcast.

such a bummer. No. I had, yeah, I just got to, you know, make sure everybody knows how much

I love my home girl. So. I think it's well said. And I appreciate you honoring your friend. You guys, if you know anyone out there who is suffering,

who needs some type of support, please give them the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline phone number, which is 1,800-273-8-255. That's 1-800-273-8-25. Okay. So,

we are out. We appreciate you sticking with us today on How We're Learning. We appreciate everything like, you know, continue to think. And seriously, you know, help us out. Help us think as far as how NASCAR is going to make this right. I'm serious about this. I want this to happen. All right, guys.

We're out of here. I'm Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay. Bye, guys. Bye, bye.