Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Will Smith’s Oscar Night: A ‘Higher Learning’ Breakdown

Episode Date: March 29, 2022

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay go through a step-by-step analysis of Will Smith slapping Chris Rock before winning his first Oscar (3:45), plus Will’s ensuing apology (1:18:45). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It's Ivan. It's on. It's on. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. You know what?

Man, go. Good. I was just going to say, I don't know if we've ever been tagged this much as a podcast. Yeah. For people who are so eager to hear the higher learning breakdown of what. What went down last night at the 94th Academy Awards. Absolutely. And I think no better way to get into this is from your perspective, Rach, because you were there.

Why be? Because you were there. Tell us about the night. Tell us about everything that happened. Tell us about everything that went on, Rach, God damn it. Misconception. There is a misleading headline out there that says Rachel Lindsay was the first black bachelorette. or no, Rachel Lindsay was the first Bachelorette ever invited to the Oscars.

I didn't attend the Oscars. I attended the red carpet in the capacity of my job. Just a general overview, the night started out great. People were so excited because they were back on a red carpet. It's been two years since we've had a red carpet in regards to the Oscars. Everything's been virtual. The energy was great. The fashion was great.

Everyone was talking pretty much. everyone was giving interviews, but you know who didn't stop by and give interviews? Who? The Smiths. Smith didn't do it. Which was odd. Because usually when you're, even though the votes were already in, you're still campaigning for your Oscar in the sense that if you do win, you want people to use the beats from your

arrival in your, when they're doing their coverage the next day. So it was odd. And I remember my producer saying, it's odd that the Smiths didn't stop and talk. Dindzel did. Interesting. Pretty much every other Oscar nominee stopped and talked to some of the outlets. This adds credence to a theory that I have for later on. And I did not put this together until I literally sat here and grabbed a mic on this podcast.

I didn't even think about that. Now, most people, just to put it, most, most of the nominees will speak to the live shows, but they also speak to the other outlets. At least the main ones, the entertainment tonight, the Echo of Hollywood, the extra. Smiths did not. They swayed to fans. They might have done a live show later down, but I couldn't see at that point.

They didn't stop by the main magazine outlet. So, yeah. And I went home, ordered Wingstop because it was a long day. And I always make an excuse for Wingstop so I can have it when I, you know, as much as I can. And, yeah, turned on the Oscars and saw what we all saw. Okay. So, guys, I didn't see this live. because I am in New York, well, I was in New York last night shooting hip hop homicides.

And I decided, you know what, I'm going to get some sleep. I didn't go to the Brooklyn Nets game, which kind of was the plan. And I didn't feel like having dinner with some friends after the game. So I decided I'm going to get some sleep. I wake up in the morning, catch up early, what happened with the Oscars. I expected to be reporting on what I expected the news to be was that we'll see. Smith won his very first Academy Award, which did happen. But nobody gives a fuck about that now.

Not really. Let's just keep it gangster. No one fucking gives a shit about that now. We have to take you guys through what happened last night. Okay. So Chris Rock comes out to present, I guess it was the best documentary film or? It was. It was.

And we had one of our very own cultural legends, nominated for that award. Gentlemen about the name of Questlove, German for the Roots, Summer of Soul ended up winning the award, but it was completely overshadowed by what precipitated the handing out of that award.

Chris Rock comes up and in doing his Chris Rock thing, he normally gets a little time at the Oscars to dole out some jokes and some insults. He said this. Jada, I love you. G.I.J. can't wait to see it.

All right? And that was a nice one. Okay. Okay. For visual. Sure, everybody listening to this podcast knows this now, but Jada Pinkett is currently bald. She has been very, very forthcoming about her struggle with alopecia, which is the disease

that causes you to lose your hair. First off, before we go any further, we're going to take this point by point. Were you aware, top of mind of Jada's situation with alopecia? And do you think that joke was too far and across the line? Yes, I was aware. And I think that any time a joke deals with someone's health issues, it's too far. It's a health issue. So any time a joke deals with somebody's health issues, it's too far.

I personally do. Okay. I'm going to be honest with you. Okay. I did not know about Jada's situation. Oh, really? It wasn't something that it was really in my mind. And number two, the joke seemed like a bad joke.

In the context of knowing that she has alopecia, obviously it seems like a worst joke. But if I'm being honest with you, in hindsight, it didn't seem like the type of joke that would elicit such a response from Will. We're jumping. We're jumping. your question was to me, did I know, which is yes, and I knew a great length.

I don't, and I don't really, I'm not really up on my Jada Pinkett Smith news. Right. But I've, she's been, she's really done a deep dive into this. I've looked at it now. You're right. So, and I knew that going in. So to answer your first question, yes, I knew. And the reason I have seen her talk about it.

I've seen the emotion from her. I've seen how I felt it was too far. and I personally thought, and I assumed, that most people knew that because I did. Because I'm not always up on my pop culture knowledge. Right. So I just assume most people did. I assume most people did. That is where I stop answering.

I'm not going to go into the reaction from it. I will just stop there if we're taking it by point. So here's a deal. That's very key, though, because I think there's a possibility that there were two different schools of people who were watching that. Absolutely. One school of people who were like, Jesus Christ, she deals with alopecia. What a terrible, insensitive thing to say. And another thing to say, another group you can go out, oh, G.I. James is the Demi Moore

movie. It's whatever, whatever. It's Chris Rock being Chris Rock. Because if you watch the Golden Globes or you watch these other things, you know that these guys go up there and it's their job to be irreverent. And also, that was not the first time during the telecast that Will and Jada got some fun poked at them. It's before it was like all the single men come.

up here will we don't know about you right that joke was made and i guess it that wasn't as big of a deal because it didn't seem to hit out a sore spot or something that jada was dealing with to your point rachel okay so after that happens will smith seemingly laughs okay come back to will smith it's the camera normally does will smith seemingly laughs jada pink it doesn't laugh uh-huh how would you describe jada pinkish reaction to the joke uh jada to pick it wouldn't having it. She rolled her eyes. And here's the thing.

You have to know, she knew the camera would be on her. Didn't care. Rolled her eyes, turn her head, it kind of made a gesture with her mouth like, come on, really? That's what she was, that's the edited version of what her face said. Right.

She looked none too pleased at the joke made. Okay. The camera then comes back to Chris Rock. And in Chris Rock, frame, we see beige rage happening on the stage, the rage

of a beige man. As Will Smith storms the stage. Donnie, give us the audio. I'm out here. Oh, Richard. Will Smith just smack the shit out of me. Oh, dude.

It was a G.I. Jane jump. Keep my white. name out your fucking mouth. I'm going to. Okay. Oh, okay. That was a greatest night

in the history of television. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, the moment that I watched this because I was asleep and I got a bunch of texts,

Gleek, a bunch of people texted me. I woke up. And I got a text from Kaleek and the text said very clearly, hey, Will Smith. punched Chris Rock in his face at the Oscars. I didn't think that he did it on stage at the Oscars. And then a piece of video comes in and then that's what that was.

It's the video of that. What were your thoughts as you saw it as you were watching the telecast? Okay. In regards to you and your text messages, I'm also texting with Kalika and I'm like, where is Van? he's silent. I was like, why have we not heard anything for van?

Because I sent the video to the group chat. And I'm, but I'm texting with Kalika. And she's like, Van's asleep. She's like, Van's asleep. And I'm trying to find, let me find the message. I was like, oh my gosh, when Van wakes up, I said, I wait this way. I get, when we start talking about Will Packer and everything, okay, let me stop trying to find our messages because I was like,

the fan wakes up. He has no idea what's happening. I, because I got home late, I rewound to watch the start of the Oscars. So I was behind. And I got a message from somebody that said, holy shit.

Did that just happen? I think that's real. And I just fast forward it. She didn't say any, who would have involved or anything. So I just fast forwarded it. I watched it. And this was.

So much mess. This was. I know. I know. This was the version from the Oscars, like the American version. So it wasn't the version we just heard now. I had not seen that yet. So I watched it.

I watched the glitch. I watched the silence. I watched Will Smith's face with his jaw clenched tight and him, Mal, keep my wife's name out your fucking mouth. I said, oh, this is real. Right. And then I called Billy Bush because we had just, we had just. Be big.

Because of that. Not because of that. We had just covered the Oscars together. So I wanted to know, but he hadn't seen it. He wasn't up on it either. I think I was just trying to talk to as many people as I could. Brian was out on the grill. I had to yell for him to come inside to watch it.

I needed as many people as they could to see what I saw, and I needed their initial reaction. Because it was so, and I don't want to deep dive too into it, because I know we're going to take this bit by bit, but it was just surreal to watch. Because the sound from the mic, I knew it was a real hit. There was no question.

Will's reaction was real. Right. I just was like, did this just happen on one of the largest stages, on one of the biggest award shows between two black men, public figures, and done by one who people might easily regard as one of the most classiest black men in Hollywood? That was like my initial thoughts. Now deep diving. That was it.

Did this just happen? Okay. So as I watched it, right? I saw the hit and then it did look for a second like it was a little scripted deal like a little skit or something, making fun of Will and Jada and all that stuff like that. Maybe, you know, Will Packer did a fantastic job. He did. Of producing the show, which I went back in Washington's entirety.

And that maybe they're having a little cultural fun. doing something to get the Oscars on the Shade Room and other places where they normally don't really end up. I thought about a lyric from a most deaf song where most deaf says, I'm like the second plane that made the Towers face off. The one that let you know is really not a game, dog. All right. And, you know, what that lyric means is, hey, at first, when the first plane hit, people

thought maybe this is a terrible accident. The second plane, you knew what the intention was and exactly what the fucking science was. This was a coordinated attack and something that we will be talking about forever. To me, the yelling at him is the second plane. Will's never been that good in his life. Will, if Will was acting, if Will was acting, if Will could summon the type of performance and access the type of emotion that he had running through his body when he was sitting down, he'd be the greatest actor of our time and not winning for maybe the worst performance

he's ever had on screen. So I knew I'm looking at that right now and I see a couple of things. You ever see kids, but not even kids, people right after they have a fight? I know exactly, yes. That look of determination, yet emotionality, yet there's a look, you've had a fight, even if you won the fight, there's rage, but you still had a fight. You still, everybody's still looking at you. You're in between emotions to a point to where your face is not sure what it should give to the rest of you. Yep. You know, your face can't really give what your body's going through because you're trembling.

almost going to cry. Yeah, you're almost going to cry, but you're too mad. You're telling yourself, don't fucking break, be mad because we're mad. Well, it's so interesting because that is that that when I close my eyes, that's the moment I see because when I talk about that clenched jaw, you can see him shaking. You can also see that like I just did that. You can see him going through all the emotions. Like he's emotional in that moment. It's rage, but it's It's also, did I just do that? It's worry. It's, it's anger.

It's like when you have a confrontation with someone and you're not expecting it and it's like you don't, you have your feeling so many things. You don't know what to do with yourself. That's that look that he had right there. I knew it was real. And then the second time there's a double down because he gets madder. First time is keep my wife's name out your fucking mouth. Then it's keep my wife's because now fuck it.

We hear. You know what I mean? Like, like we end this. Now, okay, everybody knows what happened, right? And then we get what we always get. We get the reactions that are coming in. We're going to give you reactions from both sides of this. We're going to start with the fact the initial reactions came from inside the Academy Awards,

where people consoled Will Smith. People consoled Will. You had Bradley Cooper, Tyler Perry, and Denzel Washington. least from what we can see. We don't know who reached out to Chris Rock backstage. Exactly. We don't know what happened. But it seems as if people rallied around Will Smith, your thoughts on that.

I, the initial reaction. So that, so the moment that you're referring to is we saw Chris Rock go backstage. We've no idea what happened. We saw from inside video video footage of the three people you named consoling him. To me, I can't say the word rally in that moment. Okay. Because it was more of like. What the fuck happened?

It was more of like, are you okay? It's more of like, you need to calm down. I can't say because Raleigh lends to me support. And I can't say that's what they were doing. It was more of like, you good? Like, do you need a step out? Do you need a moment? It was during the commercial recommedia after.

Like, if I saw you do that, man, right or wrong, I'm coming to you because you're my friend. Yeah. Period. Yeah. So, like, that is the reaction that I have. to that. I can't say it was support more than it was like, I see my brother in need. Yeah. See, that's

the difference with me and you and me. You do something like that. I don't know her, man. He would not, y'all. Yo, hey, like, no, you'd be like, take out your phone like, racial. Oh, shit. I'll be, you know what I would do? This is how fucked up. Let me look at your head. Let me see the hand. Like, I would come, I will come and check on you and then I would go with the person you slap up. Be like, oh, shit,

nigger. That's exactly what you said. Now what? Now what you're going to do. Do something. So I'll all Let's get jump on the fucking ass. The fuck. Yeah, we think we're not fucking, yeah, take that shit. Walk it off, nigga.

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manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Oh, so, so look, something happened that we all thought was going to happen last night, which was Will Smith won best actor. It was his time. His career has hit that level to where he's accomplished. Everything an actor can accomplish.

Will Smith was the biggest star in Hollywood. Will Smith is a cultural, a landmark. He is an absolute. force of celebrity. He's been the big, he's been, not the biggest rapper, he's been a huge rapper. He's been the biggest actor in the world. And now he is minted as an Academy Award winner.

40 minutes after the slap, Will took the stage. I'm going to tell you why I thought it was a rally after we listened to some of the audio of Will accepting his Academy Award for Best Act for King Richard. I want to apologize to the Academy. I want to apologize to all my fellow nominees. This is a beautiful moment, and I'm not, I'm not crying for winning an award. It's not about winning an award for me.

It's about being able to shine light on all of the people, Tim and Trevor and Zach and Sinaya and Demi and Anjanoe and the entire cast and crew of King Richard and Venus and Serena. their entire Williams family. Art imitates life. I look like the crazy father. It's like they said. I look like crazy father, just like they said about Richard William. But love will make you do crazy things.

Okay. All right. Apologize to the Academy. Apologize to everyone. No apology to Chris Rock. None. the man who gets smacked. Okay, so we should

can break these down now about how people reacted after this. Will Smith talked about the Zell Washington's advice that he gave him. I thought that was great advice. Rachel, you got to look like you got something? Well, I was going to say, before you got into the reactions of people, what was your reaction to his speech?

Bullshit. Other than laughter. Bullshit. Bullshit. I'm going to go ahead and get into my take and how I feel about this right now. Okay. Okay.

So this is the quagmire that this incident really is. Tell you why. Because there's a difference between what there's normally a difference in society, right? This is what we've tried to have. This is kind of society we're trying to have. We're trying to have a society where there's a difference between what you feel and what you do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And there's a reason why. Mm-hmm. The reason why there's, we want a difference between what it is you feel and what it is you do is because human beings are irrational. Almost everything about us is irrational. Love is irrational. Like love is an irrational thing. You can't quantify it.

It's a feeling that you have and it'll make you do like he said crazy things. Hate is irrational. You know what I mean? Fear is irrational. You know what I mean? In one of Will's very, to me, underrated movies, he has a, he has a line to movies after Earth, which everyone hated, which I liked.

There's a line in the way that he looks at fear in that movie, right? He says he's talking to his son because in that movie, if you don't show fear, you can ghost and these things that are trying to kill you. They won't be able to see you because they see your fear. He tells his son, he says, fear isn't real. It's not. Fear is your body's response to stress. He goes, danger is real.

Danger is real. Fear isn't real. Danger is a real thing. Fear is not. Fear is what you're doing, right? So all of these emotions that we have based upon all of these evolutionary triggers that we have, the divinity inside of us, they're really not meant for us to, they're really not meant for us to suppress them. But they are meant for us to control them. Those are two different things.

You shouldn't suppress your emotions, but you should definitely control your emotions. And I think a lot of times for men, especially for black men, we get those two things confused. Or we're told that they're confused. We're told that controlling our emotions is suppressing them. That's not everyone has to control your emotions. after a certain point, we look at everyone that's like, you can cry, right? Cry, but at some point you've got to stop crying. Right.

You can be mad, right? But at some point, you've got to stop being mad. At some point, you have to control your emotions or they will control you. What Will Smith did is absolute grade A, 100% 24-karrid gold of 1,000 times out of 1,000 wrong. no way round it absolutely no way round it

like wrong capital W wrong what confuses the situation is emotion yep that's it

I don't want to get you off I want you to finish no no no no no anytime you want to jump in because I'm like I'm monologue here I am on the exact same page as you because I've

After that, I'd even go back and watch the other stuff. I just watched from that moment. And I waited until he won, which we all knew he was going to win that night. Right? They can't take it away and had already been voted on. There was some thought, there was some conversation about that. So when he took the stage, one, this said the first time we've seen Will Smith cry in regards to an accepting award

for this role in this movie. Okay? So the tears were lost on me, right? This is that I'm not, you, I am not surprised by seeing, you have emotion in regards and talking about what this film means to you and the people involve specifically the black women that you feel the need to protect. What I wanted from Will Smith in that moment was to acknowledge his behavior. And I watched the speech and I turned to Brian and I go, he's going to win the court of a public opinion

specifically on social media because what he just did is blur the lines. He just made people sympathize with him, and he gave people something to say, we understand that. And now people are going to say, oh, but when it comes to this situation, Will gave people a but. I saw through it. You saw through it, but a lot of people didn't. And a lot of people tried to rationalize his behavior because of his tears, because of his speech, without actually realizing what he did not say. and separating, I guess, logic from emotion. And I think that there can be multiple things at the same time. And he can feel the need to protect black women.

He can feel the need to be a vessel for certain people. He can, love can make him do crazy things. But that doesn't excuse what we saw you do to Chris Rock on that stage. And I wish more people would acknowledge that. And it just, it was so irritating to be a part of this industry. And I mean, obviously not every person in the audience responded this way, but to hear, to see people stand up, to hear all these applause for him when we just saw 40 minutes before of what just happened.

And it shows how quickly people are to excuse things and forget when you reach a certain level and a certain status and have a certain amount of money. And if things were slightly different in that situation about the who and the what and the why and the how, it would have been a totally different response. So that's what that's, I'm glad they applauded them because I'd have been on their ass today if they didn't applaud them. I've watched them applaud some pretty disgusting figures that came across that stage. I want to let everybody know.

The Oscars don't have any sort of a high ground here to talk anything. Roman Polanski won an Academy Award for the piano while on the run from U.S. officials after having raped a woman. Okay. So like if some assault going down at the Academy Awards and he and they, it was applauded, right? Some assault going down at the Academy Awards, to me, is, that's light work for some of the figures that have come across that stage. Lightwork for some of the people that have held that trophy. Lightwork for some of the stuff they've turned a blind eye to. That's just the way I look at that.

So, so, so, so looking at them, it's a, it's a town full of amazing creatives. It's a town full of amazing people who do amazing things and make amazing motion pictures. But for the most part, it's a town where. where everyone's trying to gain entry to the same club. And the reason why that club is somehow sometimes filled with sycophants is because once you get inside of that club, they feel like only they know what it's like to be inside. So if we're all inside that same club of Hollywood elite, whatever it is, which most people that are out in town want to be in, myself included, let's not get it wrong. the reason why anything that you can get kicked out of the club for

they can get kicked out of the club for so most of the time if it's like they'd rather protect you then expose themselves to something that might have damned you so will's up there they're like hey this is will Smith we've known over decades go ahead and um

and let's forget about it he had a moment and by the way he did here's a deal will Smith had a moment this should not be the defined moment of Will Smith's career. Will Smith has done too much good in the world. Will Smith has put too much light in the world

for this to be the defining moment of Will Smith's career. But I will say this is where cultural accountability where it becomes sort of a chore. Because let's strip any context from around it, right? Any context, emotional context that we understood. What we saw was a black man, smack another black man in his face, on television, all right, not that that matters as much as a form of conflict, conflict resolution.

The first thing that we should ask ourselves, forget about everything else, is in any situation where we're talking about black people in our culture, when it's between us and our kids, what is between us and the people we share our community with, us and other people in our family, are we still okay with, with, violence being an acceptable tool to resolve conflict. And I've been as many fights as anyone. I box all the time I get in control violence to make sure that my reflexes stay sharp for for myriad reasons. But I'm telling you right now, right that, right now, right here. If we're talking about violence against anything, right? If we're talking about intercommunity violence as it relates to how we treat one

another, if we're talking about rap violence, if we're talking about violence against women, we have to talk about that violence too. Because that violence, no matter how you feel about it, was unwarranted. If Will Smith had walked up to the, on the stage, done the same thing, grab the mic, and admonished Chris Rock and told everyone in that moment how much he loved his wife and how beautiful he thought she was, we're having a completely different conversation. tonight, right? Right?

But what happened was really, and we all know this, we know this. Will snapped. Will snapped, not just because of what Chris Rock said, because Will Smith, this completely evolved,

engaged, cultural icon, has had the better part of two years, maybe longer, dealing with extreme emotional trauma that's being inflicted upon him because of public perception

based upon things happening in his personal life. It's nobody's fault. I'm not blaming his wife. But what I'm telling you is that was a guy right there that felt like he was in a room where he was the man.

He was going to win best actor. He was the privileged. He was the big swinging dick of that room. It was Will Smith's time to be the other thing. The other thing. The other thing.

opposite thing of what people have been saying about Will Smith for the last couple years that Will Smith is a cuck, that Will Smith is a weak one, that Jada's walking all over Will Smith, meaming Will Smith, making fun of Will Smith, all of those things. That night, he was the guy, and Chris Rock

took a shot at that woman at him during his moment, and he snapped. He lost himself. And even though he did, we got to call a spade of spade and we're trying to move away from that. Right. Right. No, it's absolutely true. And something that I saw a lot of conversation

about before we get into other celebrities and public figures reactions is that a lot of people pointed out to the fact that when Chris Rock made his joke, they pan the camera to Will and Jada and Jada's rolling her eyes and Will is laughing. And I even was like, well, Will laughed at the joke at first, right? And then he must have turned and seen Jada's reaction and was like, oh, wait. You know, and nobody really knows because there's a moment where Chris is still talking. So nobody knows what the conversation or the reaction was with Jada and Will in that moment, except for Lupta, who was right there in between them, to save him behind.

I was talking to somebody who's an actress, and she said that when you're at the Academy Awards and it's your moment, sometimes you're so caught. up in I know the camera's going to constantly be on me. This is my moment. I'm thinking about my speech. I'm thinking about so many things that you're not even paying attention to what's on stage. And I'm not saying this.

I'm not saying this in defense of will by any means because I think it's very clear that on this podcast, we are saying his actions were absolutely wrong. But it's okay to defend will though. It's okay to defend will. It's just not okay to take accountability from him. Well, it's not defending. I think it's, and maybe defend, because I think it's like too strong of a I think it's important to call him out for his actions being wrong with and also to explain

that celebrities are human beings. And this moment shows that they are very complex and they go through the same things that we as regular non-celebrity stars go through. He's obviously going through some things. He's obviously dealing with things emotional. He had an emotional moment. And celebrities are allowed to have an emotional moment. But they also, but not like that. You know, like that was wrong.

So it's not a defense. it's just talking about the other side of things. Like, you can't just be like Will was wrong and condemn him. You also have to acknowledge other factors that were at play at the same time. But I wanted to point out that to the point of him laughing, he totally could have not even heard the joke. And what I personally think is he was just smiling because he's talking about us, the cameras on us.

And I think in that moment we didn't see, he probably was like, what did he say? And it just, and lost it. Right. Lost it in that moment. Right. was like, you know what, not today. We're not doing this anymore. We're not doing this.

All right. So look, this is not the first time that Chris Rock has pulled a little fun at Jada Pickett Smith. On the Oscar stage, he also did so in 2016. A lot of people are pointing out when he told this joke. But what happened this year? What happened? People went mad. You know, Spike got mad and Johnson got mad and Jada went mad.

and Will went mad, everybody went mad, you know? It's quite like Jaina got mad. Jaina says she's not coming, protesting. I'm like, you show the TV show? Jada's gonna boycott the Oscars. Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna's panties. I wasn't invited.

Let me tell you why I didn't like that joke at that time. It's kind of like a 5% white man's nigger. You know what I mean? It's like, it's like, you know, here's my thing. And People Magazine said that they had a source that told them that Will ain't really been fucking with Chris Rock since he made that joke. You know what? And Chris Rock is that solid. I don't know Chris Rock, right?

But as far as his reputation, besides that thing that he did with Ricky Jervais and the rest of those guys, he's got a solid of reputation. I'm not here to be the judge of Chris Rock. But it don't feel weird in that room. full of white people, like, talking about Jada Pinkin and why she felt the need to boycott the Academy Awards. Again, laughter off that. That'll feel a little weird. I'm sure. It's just that, that, that, that's a little.

So I, there's nothing wrong with that joke. That joke, I don't feel like it's a low blow. But it is kind of a, I don't know, man. Like, it seems like when we get that power, maybe we ought to let some of those, motherfucker sly like that. Like, I don't know. I feel worried about it. I didn't like it, though.

I didn't even like the Rihanna part of it. I just said, I didn't, I didn't like him talking about Rihanna's panties and like this. I just, it did, none of it landed with me. None of it was funny. But you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right at the point that Jada Pinkett, whether you, you like her or not, whether you think she deserved to be there or not.

She was trying to stand up for something that she was believed was right and actually impacted you being a black man. and instead you chose to make fun of her when she's not in the room for people who are laughing at her are the very people that kept her out of that room or what she's not her out of the room, but just the fact that black people weren't nominated that year. So yeah, it wasn't like you were saying it in a room full of black folks.

Yeah, it was a bad joke. Okay, so Will Smith goes on after the Academy Awards. He goes out, he dances, you get jiggy with it plays, he dances, he takes pictures with his family, with the statue. Look, here's a thing. he's supposed to like people are having problems with the fact that he's dancing and celebrating his award when I'm not sure how else he's supposed to act he's not supposed to act like but why you're right you're right and why does he feel of power to act that way why does he

feel in power because nothing fucking happened to him he wasn't told to leave and like you know what I mean like he wasn't reprimanded at all so of course he's going to act like that you're You are so right. What is he supposed to do? Reprimand himself? Yeah, my thing is, yeah, like let him, yeah, if it went down, I'm going to go party. What is he supposed to like say this? Obviously, he doesn't give a fuck about appearances.

He just smacked a man on national television. So, so he doesn't, he doesn't give a fuck. He's out there doing this thing. I had really no issue with it as far as it relates to everything else. But then the takes started coming in. And the takes have been rolling in. We're going to go through these takes one by one. and then talk about what they say to the larger, larger culture.

And what I mean by that is this. This is a moment that sort of has fractured people based around their sensibilities and based upon what they think are responsibilities to one another are, particularly in the black culture, particularly in black culture. I know white people want to be involved in everything. But just drink a meat, julep, and watch and don't do nothing, just like your ancestors did while slay. slavery was happening. So like,

God. Just stay here. Just kind of, you know, whatever. Now, the first one and a lot and one that I saw trending as soon as I woke up was Stephen A. Smith. Can we run Stephen A. Smith's reaction to this? What Will Smith did tonight was straight

bullshit. Props and congratulations to him for winning the Oscar because damn it he deserved it. And I love the brother and I'm proud of him. But boy was that a shameful act for him to commit tonight. To go up on stage and slap Chris Rock like that, he's lucky he didn't get his ass kicked, particularly after the event was over. If not by Chris Rock to the fellas he had there with him, I mean, damn. Denzel and Bradley Cooper and Tyler Perry having to calm you down, your publicist having to run out and calm you down.

I mean, damn, come on, bro. Come on, man. There's no excuse for it, ladies and gentlemen, don't even try to justify it, okay? Chris Rock said it years ago. Every time black folks doing something, you know who messes it up. I never dreamed of my wilders dreams. I'd be saying that about Will Smith. A black man, Will Packer, did a phenomenal job producing the Oscars.

And you do this to stain yourself, to stain the Academy Awards? Damn. Okay. You know, Craig Melvin also got his take off on this. I got a lot of respect to Craig, Craig, Melvin. Got a lot of respect for Stephen. Nate Smith. It's some white man's niggas shit in there. This is your

new favorite thing to say. It is. It is. It is. Let's talk about what happened, right? And if we're having a conversation, let's have the conversation centered around how we're treating each other. Not how it looks. How it looks for black people.

Every time black people do something, niggas come and mess it up is what Chris Rock said back in the day. I'm sick of, I'm sick of that. Okay. One, a couple of things real quick. Stephen A. Smith later came back and said he had no idea about the alopecia that Jada Pinkett was suffering from. So he kind of like dialed back a little bit on his take just to put that out there.

He dialed back on it in terms. He didn't dial back on the, the part of it that where he insinuated that we was embarrassing ourselves in front of Massa. He didn't dial back on that. Did he say that? No, he didn't. say that. That's my interpretation. I know. I know that I mean like but I didn't even necessarily get that strong of an implication. Okay. So to me, okay. So to me when you say every time black people do something, because he's talking about the Chris Rockby was every time black people do something,

niggas come and mess it up. And he said, I never thought Will Smith would be that. So a black person did something and then Will Smith, the nigger has come to mess it up. So go ahead. What I will say about Craig is that he shouldn't, I personally, I personally, I personally don't even think he should have... Should we run Craig's? Not to shoot... We should. We should.

We should run Craig's audio. Okay, let's run Craig's audio real quick and let... I'm sorry for... You guys, I'm sorry for interrupting Rach. I'm sorry for interrupting anyone. No, we need to run it. Run Craig's audio. It's a little closer to what Stephen A. Smith had to say.

It was really disappointing. You know, if you're rearing a boy, especially in this country, you spend so much time talking to our kid about keeping your hands to yourself, controlling your emotions. And then there's also this, you know, this long help perception in this country that, you know, men of color, especially can't control their rage and their anger and just to see someone who's been that beloved for decades. It was troubling on so many levels. So the reason I think to speak to what Craig said is, Craig should have never even taken on that conversation unless you were going to do a deep dive. Because there is no way to talk about this in a one minute and 30 second clip. or what, like you don't have the time on TV.

Even if this was the view where you dive into these topics, you don't have the time Craig Melvin to talk about this because it's layered. And so that's the problem with what he said. But my question is to you as a black man, when you hear Stephen A. Smith's response and you hear Craig Melvin's response, do you think they were on the defense?

And I don't agree with either one. Let me just put that out there. Do you think they were on the defense because they felt that they woke up, up this morning and we feel like black men were going to be attacked. Okay, let's say that they are on the defense. I don't understand how that would be the defense. I want you to-

Okay, I know, I give you, I want you to give me something. Everybody, everybody, give me an example of something that's been proven definitively true. Anyone, just throw something out. Something that we know to be true. It's 100% true. It's definitively true. Just throw out examples of something we know is true.

The world is not flat. The world is not flat. Despite what people say, we know that the world is not flat. Donnie, do you know something to be definitively true that you would like to add to this conversation? Man evolved from Aves. Okay. Donnie's playing around. Like definitively true.

Trudy, do you have something that is definitively true? Yes, gravity. What goes up must come down. Gravity is definitively true. To the point that something, you know, gravity is definitive true. We know that, right? So let me tell you something else that's truer than all of those things. That we know for sure.

Good behavior does not exclude you from racism. This has been true. Good behavior. Sure. Doesn't exclude you from racism. it doesn't matter if you're the best. It doesn't matter if you're the brightest. It doesn't matter if you are the most law-abiding.

Good behavior doesn't exclude you from racism. This is a fundamental issue in the black community. We've had Harvard professors that have been in their own homes that have been made out to be the perpetrators in those situations. After their homes have been robbed or after just for being, inside of it, whatever. We've had all kinds, we've had enough to know that good behavior doesn't disillusion from racism. Stop worrying about standing up straight for people who are intimidated by how tall you are. Don't stand up straight for people who are intimidated for how how tall you are. There are a litany, a litany of issues for us to talk about in regards to how we

treat one another. But the perception of black men, I'm sorry, cannot be one of them. Because the perception of black men isn't a perception that we have. We know who we are. The perception of black men is a perception that they have.

And it is not our job to change it. It's not. Because guess what? We tried that. And guess what they did? The same shit. So it's not our job to change that. And to be honest with you, insinuating that it is, is the most backwards, weak, and status quo worshiping thing that you can do.

Will Smith lost his fucking mind, walked up on the stage, smacked Trish Rock. Ain't got a motherfucking thing to do with me, except for the fact that I would like to instill a way for us to do better. But I didn't do nothing. And if I'm at an award show next week and someone thinks I'm going to get out of my seat and smack somebody because Will Smith did it, they have the problem, not me, I hate it. You're a hundred percent right. I just think that you're right. It's their problem, not yours, but I don't think it changes maybe some people feeling like,

and I'm not, again, I don't agree. That we got to be better. No, not that we got to be better. No, you can stop that. You can stop that talk. That's not that we got to be better. It's not that we got to be better, but you feel like,

like we talked about this before that maybe you feel like people are going to lump you. And I think that may be where they were coming from. Oh, no, now there are going to be those people. It is their problem, but it's also inevitable that you're going to, that the others will start saying,

like generalizing. Because that's what, that is human nature. Right. That's human nature. That's what they do. But I still think, hey, Craig Melvin, that you don't have the place to be talking about this conversation because you're not giving it.

It's fair due. There's so much more to discuss. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or road trip goes sideways. Ketchup goes rogue ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors.

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millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. All right. Who else? Because everybody was talking. Everybody talked about. Judd Apatow said that

Okay. He could have killed Rock. That's pure out of control, rage, and violence. They've heard a million jokes about them in the last three decades. They are not freshmen in the world of Hollywood in comedy. He lost his mind.

I'm not going to lie. I could have, I could have closed my eyes and knew that that was a white person who said that. Like, you didn't even tell me who that came from. It's not like, it's not like he's not right that the guy snapped. The guy did snap, but come on man. Now we're going to hang a murder beef on him. Exactly. How we go from a slap to murder? But you know what? What you know what this comes from? You know what this comes from? These cultural differences are so fucking fascinating to me. This comes from the fact, This comes from a culture that, and I don't want to act like I know everything

about Judd Appetown and how he grew up, but he's shocked. Like where he's from, people don't get smacked for running their lip. Do you know how many times I've seen this? I've seen dudes get smacked and be like, yo, fan, what you hit me for?

And I've seen my dad go, boy, you better get yours back. What you mean you're going to be getting your ass Wriss and peace, dad, you're going to be getting your ass slapped your whole motherfucking life. Hey, get your ass up. Hit this man back. Keep your hands out of my motherfucking nephew.

Get your ass up. Like making them defend themselves because we came from a place to where somebody might get mad enough to slap you. But if you the nigga that gets slapped, you're going to get slapped all the time because you are going to become a waste station for everybody's trauma, bad feelings.

and unexpressed angst because we got so much of it. But Judd Abtah not used to that. Clearly, because that's the only way you would say something like that. Could have killed. I thought it was a joke when I saw that. I was like, okay, we just went from zero to a thousand. How we go to murder? How we break one of the ten commandments over a slap?

Yeah. See that, and that once again, we're not saying that the slap is right, but what we're saying is keeping in context, Judge. He didn't try to kill him. He didn't take out a weapon, right? He didn't beat him down. All right. Now we'll go to Leslie Odom Jr.

The fabulously talented Leslie Odom Jr. This business can sometimes feel like it's walking around with your skin ripped off, you know. It's a very vulnerable thing. And I think we saw two artists with their hearts open. It's a vulnerable moment. Sometimes it's messy. But it's always beautiful. It's the truth.

Nigo, what the fuck are you talking about? I really like Leslie I'm trying to hear that What's how fuck are you talking about You know what? He's trying to be politically correct He is trying to be politically correct And and trying to say something

That was extremely poetic He wanted to say something that was poetic And wouldn't ruffle any feathers And instead it just didn't make sense It's a vulnerable moment Sometimes it's messy, but it's always beautiful when it's the truth. So Will slapping this shit out of Chris Rock was beautiful. All right.

We're going to go to Tiffany Haddish now. Oh, yes. No, I was going to say he won the only one who used the word beautiful. So we're going to go to Tiffany Haddish now. Okay. And this is going to lead us into a whole different line of thought. I know we're spending a lot of time on this guys, but no, this is all we're talking about today. This is the podcast.

All right. Tiffany Haddish. I think Chris was messy. As a woman who had a husband, I wish my husband would have stood up for me the way that Will stood up for Jada. That's what every woman wants, right? She was hurt and he protected his wife,

and that's what a man is supposed to do. I am not a woman. Rachel, you are. I love Tiffany Havish. I enjoy her work. I enjoy interviewing her on the red carpet. she is always so gracious and gives you her time and her attention. She's always funny.

She gives different answers as a reporter. You couldn't ask for anything better. But Tiffany missed the mark on this one. Now, I don't disagree with her. It is a beautiful thing to see your husband stand up for you as your wife, as his woman. It is a beautiful thing to see a black man stand up for his black queen, especially on a national stage when another black man just ridiculed and embarrassed her. It is a beautiful thing to see. But the actions that Will Smith committed were not beautiful. And you can't conflate the two.

And that's the problem. I was really shocked by her take here. I think that you can have, that you can talk about both. You can acknowledge both, but then acknowledge that something is, is once something is right and something is wrong in that. And I, and I, and I, and I, and I, And I think my issue with people like Tiffany's response and even others is that you're not looking at this as a whole thing. You're looking at this in one way. You're looking at this as Will Smith and who he is as a talented actor and great, gracious, giving human being that he has been. You're not looking at what he did. And you can separate that and call him out and still praise him for all the work that he's done.

And Tiffany had, she isn't alone in this, but I was really shocked. And I don't know, you know, if you interview Tiffany or you watch her interviews on carpets, she does, she is light, she's sarcastic, she's funny, she doesn't take herself too seriously on the carpet. And I feel like she didn't want to get into the weeds of it all because that was the question for everybody, but she simply should have just skipped the press line at the after parties. because this was not the hill to stand on. It just wasn't. And I'm disappointed in this because you can talk about both.

You can discuss both. And she didn't. So everyone's looking at this through the lens of what they want, which is interesting. I understand black women who feel the way she feels. To a point. So another very smart lady, her name is Jamela Lemieux. she has changed her AVI on Twitter and Instagram to a photo of Will Smith,

Smack and Chris Rock. Because there is a, there is a contingent of black women, a large contingent of black women that feel unprotected, unseen, and unprioritized by black men, right? this reminds me of something that that that I always talk about from the movie the american president it's a part of the american president michael douglas just talking to michael j fox okay you remember this movie the american president where president gets a girlfriend you know whatever anyway they're talking about whether or not michael j fox is going to come back and whether or not michael douglas is the president is going to come back and respond to people

who are criticizing him about his girlfriend is whether or not he's going to be a leader and uh some of the best writing that Aaron Sorkin has ever done. Michael, Michael J. Fox, listening to me and says, listen to me, he says, listen, you've got to be a leader. People need leadership. People crave leadership. They crave it so much that, you know,

they crawl through the desert for it, looking for it like it's an oasis. And if they cannot find the actual water that is leadership, they'll drink the sand, meaning somebody wants something so bad that if they don't see a genuine, an example of it, they'll take it in whatever form it appears. Right.

And that's what a lot of people are doing with this situation. We want so bad to be respected by white people that we'll admonish a brother for doing something that embarrass himself and say that he embarrass us all, right? We want so bad to be protected as black women. I'm not talking like I'm a black woman. I'm saying, but I know that my sister. want to be protected, they want to be seen. So this mutated,

dripping with patriarchy and machismo form of protection is seen as something positive. I think if we take a step back, this is not what we're talking about. Number one, we want a situation where black women feel so protected that, like,

we don't have to look at situations like this and use this as examples of it. I get that he was protecting his wife. I understand that, right? But even in protecting people, there's a right way to do it or the wrong way to do it. Judapetal said that he could have killed Chris Rock. Now, he wasn't trying to kill Chris Rock,

but what if he would have taken a goddamn glass from somebody's table broken on the stage and then shift Chris Rock in the neck with it? I think we all could be like, that's too far, right? So in my opinion, striking him for that situation is too far now. But once again, it's emotions. I understand it. But in this particular situation, I think a lot of people who are saying, who are giving will a pass because he was protecting his wife,

I think they're drinking the same. I really do. I think that I think personally, I get it. How about this? I'll meet them halfway. I'll tell you one thing. I would rather him go too far than don't go at all. But we still have to recognize when he's gone too far.

Yeah. I think that they're different. Right. Like nobody's saying that it was wrong of him to hit him. It's almost like how the where and how it took place. Nobody would have had a problem if he would have whispered like, let's talk and have this conversation backstage and knocked the shit out of him backstage or somewhere else or at the after party or whatever. I follow Jamila.

on social. I just think that it's again looking at it like Tiffany Haddish, very one-sided. You can have both. You can be proud that he protected his black queen, but then also acknowledge that what he did was wrong. There's a way to do both. I think that's exactly what we're doing on this podcast. I think you can do both things. It was a beautiful thing to see him stand up for his wife. I really, I really appreciated that. But I didn't appreciate the violence. And I actually, I got a text message from somebody this morning that wrote me because they knew that I covered the Oscars.

And they said to me that they wanted to give a different perspective. And they said, if you've ever been the recipient of that kind of anger and rage, you probably had a little PTSD reaction to both the slap and the shouting. I flipped it on just as I was about to go to sleep just in time to see it happen. Then, of course, I scoured Twitter and heard the shouting. I couldn't go to sleep for hours because it took me back to that place. It was a trigger. I still have tightness in my chest and an unsettled feeling from it

and seeing it replayed this morning. And then she goes into a personal story of it happening in her. But I think that people don't. Tell Ellen Pompeo that this ain't got nothing to do with her. But I think what people don't realize is the reason you have to call something out is wrong is because it can't affect. It was not Ellen. because it can affect, you don't realize the impact that violence.

Like, well, we talk about Kanye West and the psychological harassment. Somebody has received that and it affects them and it triggers them because it's not right, it's wrong, and that's why you have to call it out. Don't look at just, don't look at the why he ended up doing it. Look at what he did and the ramifications of that. That's what I think. And then when I saw that, it's like, oh, I didn't think of that perspective because I have not personally experienced it and gone through it. So that's why you have to talk about it from all different sides because this impacted people in various ways.

True. Look, by the way, I want to confuse, there are certain situations where violence is completely appropriate, right? I mean, I'd just be honest with you. Sometimes. You know what I mean? Sometimes you defend yourself. Sometimes you have to do violence to stop people who are doing violence to you. Like, it, it, it, it, you know, sometimes violence is appropriate.

Look, just because we understand something doesn't make it right. Like, I understand war, right? I understand sometimes why nations are fighting over resources, why it's in a nation's best interest to attack another nation and dominate them either economically or, you know, through military superiority. But at the same time, it's like, we're looking to build a community and to build community, what we have to do is find better ways. And this needs to be all hands on deck type of thing.

Chris Rock is now going to become who Will Smith was not too long ago. He is going to be the butt of so many jokes. He has been embarrassed in a way that few people have ever been embarrassed in the history of television. As a matter of fact, coincidentally, the only person that might understand exactly how embarrassed Chris Rock is right now might be Will Smith. To have everybody talking about what's going on with you, to be publicly out there, naked, vulnerable, having everyone say that you're weak, having everyone say that you're less than a man.

You know what I mean? Having everyone say all of these things, it's kind of what happens because hurt people, hurt people. You will take all of that that you haven't properly sort of dealt with. and moved through. And you'll give it to somebody else. And then you'll put your shoulders back and be like, I did what I was supposed to do.

And I'm going to be honest with you. There might be some sense somewhere that doing that makes his family a more secure family than it was two or three days ago. Maybe there's some compensation from something there. Maybe a part of this has to do

with Will Smith's version of himself, one of the very first lines in this book is, you know, I've always thought of myself as a coward. I've never thought about Will Smith. As a matter of fact, what I've always thought about Will Smith, and it's very interesting. I've thought about Will Smith as maybe the strongest person in that entire industry. Because as I've looked at Will Smith, I've seen someone who was always vulnerable, never afraid to be themselves, who always greeted the world in any situation, that was difficult and tough with a sense of irreverent joy and a rebellious attitude.

I remember watching Will on Oprah like a long time ago, and he didn't even understand what he was doing was revolutionary, right? When I was a kid, the one refrain I always heard from my parents was stay in a child's place, right? Stay in a child's place. Adults are talking. Don't talk while the adults are talking. And what they, we don't understand, at least in my opinion, sometimes we arrest children's development.

Like when I would be with other people's families and stuff, I wouldn't see that. I'd see them, I'd see kids talk back and forth to their parents in ways. I'd be like, God damn, you can say that to your mom. And they were normally always wrong, but their voices were being heard. I remember Will said on Oprah, he's like, we don't have rules like that for our kids. We give them as much freedom as they can handle. Yeah, I remember that. As long as it's not a problem, you can do it.

Hey, you can have a TV. when you start going to the TV we got to take the TV you can hang out with your friends when you start doing there's no rules you can't as much freedom as you can handle and when I look at that I think

to go on television as a black family don't even recognize that you're being revolutionary you're changing the dynamic of what people think of what people feel like they can do not what people think

but what people feel like they can do I think we need more of that and this was to completely antithesis of that. I was going to say. This was Will at his smallest. This was Will at his most impotent, but at the same time, still a part of Will Smith.

And I'm not looking to crucify Will Smith. I'm not looking to do anything crazy or to reimagine his entire career. He didn't ruin his career. Sure. But we got to call it like it is, right? We have to talk about it. It happened. And you can, it's just the irony of, well, and what Dinsel Washington said to him, but of this was his night. And even on the red carpet, we all knew it before the show even started. The question was, how excited are you for Will Smith as if he had already won? Everybody knew it was his night. Dinsel, ingenue. The young daughters, excuse me, me, their names are escaping me, that played his, um, that played Venus and Serena in the movie. Everybody knew it was Will's Night. And the fact that at the same time, you have to share

you're one of your greatest achievements, you have to share one of your worst. That's, that's what's wild. So here's my question. And I don't know if we're going to play any other clips. We play any other clips? I don't think we're playing any other clips. Okay. Okay. Okay. Cut that part out. Here's my question. If you're Chris Rock, what do you do? Good question. What do you? Like I, Brian and I kept talking about this last night. What do you do?

Where do you go? How do you, because we have yet to use the word or really talk about this in the terms of embarrassing. But like, what happened to Chris Rock, he was embarrassed on a national stage. Then he had to go back and still give out the award. Yeah. Which overshadowed the brilliant documentary, which you touched on. If you have not seen it, Summer of Seoul, the Revolutional Revolution. and will be televised.

That's the other name of it, or it means the subtitle. It's amazing. Amazing. And I'm, and Quest Love was emotional in his speech. It was really just a beautiful moment to see and him shared that emotion with his mother. It was great. He showed us a part of history that we did not know existed. So please go out and see that and support that documentary.

But I don't even know how he pulled himself together to continue to do that. He did it. He was a professional in it. But what do you do from here? Where do you go? That's a question that I can. not answer that I because it's almost like because of in the court of public opinion will has almost set him up to whatever he does in response it's almost going to be a failure you can't do

a comedy special yeah you can't do a comedy special you can't do an interview you have to do an interview like everything you do will be to use your word demonized you can't so I just want to remind people about something as it relates to Chris Rock. And it's something that I've kind of witnessed, although I don't want to read too much into something. Chris Rock revealed about a year ago, something I've talked about with my therapist, that he does therapy seven days a week.

He does therapy every day. Chris Rock, at a point, was doing therapy every day, seven hours a week of therapy. Oh, my gosh. That's how severely depressed. That's how Chris Rock had things going on with him. That's how much help he felt like he needed. He was doing therapy every day.

Look that up. Donnie, look that up for me. Chris Rock was doing seven days of week of therapy. He was talking about how important it was for him to move through some of his depression, to move through some of his anxiety, to move through some of the things that were, that were bothering him. Seven days a week of depression. One day I was running Echo Park. On Saturdays, when I was back in shape, I would want to eat donuts, right?

So what I would do is I would wake up in the morning. And before I ate anything, I bust six miles at Echo Park. I just take it all the way down, six miles at Echo Park, empty stomach. Just burn, burn, burn, burn, burn, burn. So they're like, if I want to fuck around a little day, a little while eating, I could. But I would do it early in the morning. I would literally wake up maybe like 6, 6.30 in the morning and go run because, you know, I was used to waking up at like 4.30 in the morning at TMZ so I can run at 6. One morning I'm running. It's like 6 o'clock, 630 in the morning. I'm running around the Echo Park Lake.

And there's nobody there at that time other than people who are running. 7.730 people come starting out, start walking 8 o'clock. When the sun's nice, it gets nice and warm, people start coming to the park. one morning I'm running it's about 645 630 and I see a guy in a black jumpsuit just walking around the lake and it's not that many people out there just walking around the lake walking around the lake and as I come up to the side of the lake that's nearest to the street I look at the guy and by the way he's walking I go oh shit that's Chris Rock I'm like oh my God that's like that's Chris Rock and I run up I run past him and he's looks at me, I look at him, he nods.

And then some of the ladies that were like walking, like power walking behind me, they're like, oh my God, like, please that Chris? I'm like, yeah, yeah. So I'm Shalom and I'm like, yo, bro. Be honest with you, man, I saw Chris Rock like walking around the lake and maybe like 630, 645 in the morning. Like, I was, it was bad early.

Oh, he's like, oh, he'll do that. He's like, bro, Chris be going through it. And I'm like, yeah, he's like, yeah, he's like, you know, comedian and stuff like that. Like, sometimes he just be clear his mind. Like, that's early. But I mean, I'm not saying anything. What I'm saying is this is somebody who has Dave dealt specifically with issues, right? And I say that to say that, yo, we want to pick a winner and a loser in this interaction.

We want to pick the person that was the righteous person and the person that was wrong. We want those lines to be. But what we don't see sometimes as people is that we are hurting each other. over and over there's no winner there's just a cycle of loss Chris Rock I felt like should have been

I felt like Chris Rock should have thought about the fact that Jada was his sister in 2016 and probably should have thought about the fact that Jada was his sister in 2022 he didn't so because he didn't Will hits Chris

then Chris hits Will hits Chris now Chris has a deal with that and I'm telling you straight up the way this works is because Chris Rock is going to be fucked up behind this, somebody's going to suffer because of that. Somebody's day is going to be made harder because of that.

And we're just fucking over each other over and over again. What we really need to do is do the work to figure out what's going on. And one way you got to do it is to say clear lines that say, hey, that's not okay. And I don't give a fuck what you're talking about. What happened at the Academy Awards between Chris Rock and Will Smith, it's not okay. Will doesn't have to be better than that for black people. Will doesn't have to be better than that for the entire culture. Will has to be better than that for Will. Will Smith owes

Chris Rock an apology. And if he is anywhere near the man that he says that he is, he'll give him that apology. Hmm. Well sad. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease

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the midnight oil in the garage, and pedal to the metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of Nass energy and get after it. Obviously, a lot of people were upset and disappointed with the academy because they didn't react to Will Smith. They did not remove him from the ceremony. They didn't, you know, obviously they were going to, he was going to win the award, but, you know, maybe they didn't air his speech or maybe they didn't allow him to speak. Who knows? There was, there were no, Will Smith was not reprimanded in any way for his actions when he literally assaulted somebody on national television, right? Then cursed him out. The academy has now spoken out. The academy has now issued a statement and said that they do not condone the actions

of Will Smith. My question to you, what do you think should happen to Will Smith in regards to what happened? And in the context of the academy, you know, should he be suspended? Should he lose his membership?

Should he have his award taken away? So the academy has absolute zero moral high ground, as I said before, to take Will Smith's Oscar. They have less, less less than

nothing to say about his Oscar. If the Academy tries to take Will Smith's Oscar, they will have made a big fucking mistake and an enemy of Van Lathen who doesn't mean anything to the Academy. Okay. So the

Academy has absolutely zero right to take Will Smith's Oscar. They have no more high ground to take his Oscar. That to me is a absolute joke. Can't do that, right? Yeah. Did the Academy take Harvey Weinstein's Oscar? Right.

Did the Academy awarded an Oscar to Roman Polansky, right? There are other people who you could argue, and I don't want to get into a whole thing, but Ilya Kizabeth, who named names in the situation with the Hollywood Blacklisting back in the day. He's a fantastic filmmaker, but some people weren't cool with that. You know what I mean?

Some people weren't cool with that at all. Okay. However, it does not mean, so the Oscar itself to me has been earned. They can't take the Oscar away. They just have no moral ground to do that. We've seen guys get arrested. Guys get all, people beat each other up, all kinds of stuff. Academy Award winners, it doesn't have, they can't do that.

They do not have to let Will Smith attend the Academy Awards, though. They don't have to let him come to the award show for X amount of time. Now, I want to be honest with you guys, if they were. to do that. And I'm not saying that they should. I'm saying that they could and I would have no problem with it. If they were to do that, our knee-jerk reaction as black people, as people who love Will Smith would be to say, that's not fair. Our knee-jerk reaction to Will Smith being told that he could not come to the Academy Awards, that he could not present next year, that it would be a two, three, four, five-year ban from Will Smith being at the Academy Awards.

we would think that there was something wrong with that. The reality is there's not anything wrong with that. The reality of the situation is if you went there and acted out and hit somebody like that, then I think the academy is totally within their fucking rights to say Will Smith can't come to the Academy Awards for five years. To say that Will Smith can't come to the Academy Awards for fucking 10 years. If they wanted to, they could say, Will Smith can never come back to the Academy Awards, right? Wouldn't be any skin off his fucking neck.

He already got his statue. He's been a bunch of times before. So really, I think that would be getting off kind of whatever. He's not going to face any legal situation. It doesn't look like Chris Rock is going to sue him, although we don't know that. So, yeah, I don't think they can take his award. But if they want to bar him from that ceremony, then sure.

I would have no issue with that. And I don't really see a way that they won't do that. Um, oh, is this breaking news? Oh, we have a statement from Will. Oh, that's a little. Okay. Statement from Will Smith. Do you want to read it? Sure. I will read it. This is breaking news on Instagram. Will Smith eight minutes ago just posted a statement said, violence in all four, violence in all of its forms is poisonous and destructive. My behavior at last night's Academy Awards was unacceptable and inexcusable.

Jokes at my expense are a part of the job. But a joke about Jada's medical condition was too much for me to bear and I reacted emotionally. I would like to publicly apologize to you, Chris. I was out of line and I was wrong. I am embarrassed and my actions were not indicative of the man I want to be. There is no place for violence in a world of love and kindness. Fan? There's more on the next page.

Oh, it's a two-pager? Yeah. Okay, excuse me. I would also like to apologize to the Academy, the producers of the show, all of the attendees, and everyone watching around the world. I would like to apologize to the Williams family and my King Richard family. I deeply regret that my behavior has stained what has been an otherwise gorgeous journey for all of us. I am a work in progress. Sincerely, Will. Huh

It's good Of course it's good It's good I wouldn't I wouldn't expect anything less Everybody pop on Donnie Trudy whole family Family little family thing

Does this change anything for you How does this How does this apology that we are literally Just getting us we're doing the podcast Which by the way Everybody who recorded their podcast before And blah blah blah Y'all did get the full

Ah Fuck it So what do you think, Rach? He apologized. You hate apologies so much. I know, I know. I know. You already know.

Have you ever accepted an apology? Yes. Yes. And you already know. You know where I'm going with this. You know me. It's so hard because literally, Van, you were saying what he should do is apologize before we even got this news.

And that's what we wanted. We wanted an apology. Is it hard, if I'm getting 100% honest? Of course, it's not my apology to accept. You know what the people say. It's not my apology to accept. Right. Is it hard to not look at it that he slapped the man,

adjusted his suit, walked back to his seat, laughed and Kiki the rest of the night, accepted his award, cried about it, did not take the opportunity to apologize. He did apologize to the academy. Not Chris Rock, though. Went home, stood on the carpet as people applauded him and took his picture, held up his Oscar,

party to get jiggy with it all night, had a good night sleep, woke up in the morning, then had probably a meeting with his team, and was like, okay, this is what we need to say. you know, it's almost like he did everything that he wanted to do to celebrate and then he came and apologized. You know, it's hard. It's not my place to tell him when and how he should apologize. It's a beautiful apology and he checked every single box as he's supposed to and he stepped up and he apologized, which is what he should do in this situation. So that's all I'm going to say. But of course I'm going to preface it with all he did in the, you know, the 18 hours before. Rach, I don't know anyone

where an apology is as useless on somebody as it is on you. It's like, fuck it. It's not. Fuck him. No, fuck him. Fuck him, man. I don't think that.

Fuck him. But it's just like, damn. You know, of course we knew Will was going to apologize. It was going to be a bigger story if he didn't apologize. Yes, we knew he was coming. Yeah. But he said, I'm going to do me. I'm a do me.

first and then I'm going to apologize. I don't know. It's kind of a G for that. I'm not going to lie. Listen, I'm not, I don't, I don't know if I would have done that, okay? Well, I don't know. I probably would have done the same thing, but I'm just saying, you got to talk about it from both days. How about this?

How about this? Let's ask this question. To me, sometimes I look at apologies like this. I don't know if you have to mean an apology for the apology to actually. People always say you apologize, but you didn't mean it. I don't think the, I don't think the apology is about meaning it. I think an apology is about the gesture itself. I think the apology is about actually submitting yourself to that type of,

it's about humbling yourself more than anything. I don't care, I don't care necessarily whether or not I can know for sure that someone in their heart of hearts means their apology. Especially when it's written. Especially, see, here you go. So I think the bigger thing is that he apologized. But I do wonder in this particular situation,

does Will Smith mean this apology? Have I rubbed off on you? What? Have I rubbed off on you? No, I'm just saying. Well, it's just something to talk about because me, the fact that he apologizes all that matters. Sure.

Donnie, do you think Will Smith means this apology? Like he's seen the air. in his ways what he did wrong and he wants to say that he's sorry sincerely. It's hard to fully say he means it. This is like so perfect of an apology that it kind of feels like it might be team assisted slash co-written. But like if he meant it, I think it would have happened last night. Trudy?

I don't. I think he apologized because he had to. And when I'm reading this line, this apology, his line. be his line jokes at my expense are part of the job, but a joke about Jada's medical condition was too much for me to bear and I reacted emotionally. It's the but for me. Like that is,

fuck everything I said before that and I would do it again. Like that's how I read that line. I don't think he's sorry. I think he had to. I don't think he's sorry to Chris. That's what I'll say. I think he's embarrassed because it was his moment. It was his night, but I don't think he's sorry to Chris.

I'm telling you there's smoke there. You think there's smoke day. She thinks that there's something going on back then. I feel you. I feel you. Look, before we get out of here, do we want to get to Soup Kitchen's wife? It's his fiance, and we have to because I got a lot of messages that wanted us to talk about this. Let's do two more topics.

Let's do Sub Kitchen's wife and then Donnie. I want you to do this thing. This is for Trudy alone. I want you to do this thing that I'm putting into group chat right now. Don't tell Trudy or Rachel. I just want to bring this up. Donnie, mute yourself and then listen to it, right? And then we'll do this by the food.

Well, you just send it to all of us. Oh, shit. Y'all got it. Trudy. Don't open it, Trudy. Don't open it. What? Oh, my God.

I want to do this. I want to do this for Trudy because we haven't talked to talks with Trudy in a while. All right. Let's play Soup Kitchen. Let's play. What's Soup Kitchen's girlfriend's name? His, uh, his fiance. Lauren. Lauren.

Lauren Zima? Mm-hmm. Is it really Zima? Yeah. it is. Wow. Zima like the beverage from the 90s. Oh, a refreshing Zima. Let's do Lauren Zima's

back and forth with Tiffany Haddish over Tiffany's costume that she wore to the Oscars. Play it. Do you do a little costume change? I'm not wearing a costume. I'm wearing Tocke Gabana. It's called an evening gown, darling. This is not, no one's paying me for this. I paid for it. It's custom. Thank you.

Time of death for me right now. You look gorgeous. This is not an acting gig. This is my life. This is what fame looked like. This what success looked like. This what money looked like. This is what it looked like.

What is your book coming out called This What It Look Like? And I will just read the entire book about. That book's not coming no time soon, but I curse you with joy. It will be out in November. Okay, okay. And later that asked Black Unicorn will be out next month. I'm doing so much right now. Okay.

I'm just, you know, trying to accomplish a lot of things before 50. What are you doing? Well, I'm wondering something. You're out here with no shoes on. I'm jealous. No shoes on. Here's the thing. I'm from Chicago.

And you out here with no shoes on? This is warm weather to me. I know. It's hot out here to you, right? I absolutely no problem with what she said to Tiffany Haddish. I don't see the problem. The costume? Do you think Tiffany overreacted?

I don't think Tiffany overreacted. I think Tiffany is a beautiful, brilliant woman and has some fun with the lady. And I have no problem with Tiffany having fun. with the lady, but it's called a costume change. And they call it a costume change. If you're hosting the show and you come out. I know. But traditionally, professionally, they'll say, if you change in the night, they'll be like,

oh, costume change. It's like that term is thrown around very loosely. She wasn't calling her gown of costume. I'm sorry that I have to be on a white woman's side who are wrong 53% of the time. But like, but, but like it. No. First of all, you can't, they call it a costume change. No.

On the red carpet. If she was in the show and she was on stage as if she was doing some type of performance, I absolutely get that. But when you walk a red carpet, you don't typically say a costume change. You're like, oh, you don't. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I do this.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but. Donnie, you're right. You're right. I'm wrong. You know what? No, I just saying you don't typically say this. But you know what I will give credit to? Nah, hold on.

I do this, nigga. I do this. Fuck that. Rachel Wright. Fuck her. Fuck her. Fuck Zima. I'm going to take the Zima.

I'm going to take the Zima. I'm going to pour it out. Fuck Zima. I do this, nigga. What I will say that will surprise people is it is tough to be on a red carpet and you have been out there for hours and hours and hours and multiple people are coming up and you got to come up with stuff off the top of your head. You got to give props to the way that Lauren handled it with like just being like time of death. Time of death was this. You know, like acknowledged it and was like, I'm just going to let Tiffany keep talking.

I got to eat this one. You know, she was like, can I buy the book on this? I actually thought she was witty in the way. that she handled the situation because that's not always easy to do and people mess up on carpets all the time. I ain't taken up for Lauren. I'm just, I got to acknowledge the fact

that it's not easy to be a reporter and the way that she handled that was pretty good. But I thought it was funny because so many people were sending it and were like, look like somebody else is in line for the soup kitchen.

Thought warriors. Thought warriors. Y'all are funny. Shout out to Tamika. Tomica Timmyso that I've responded back to her. Y'all are funny. I'm telling you. Know what they are?

They're going to get married when they're going to get married. I don't know. Why would not be the one tonight? Their new surname is going to be the soups. Two of them. The soups. I chicken noodle take you chicken and rice to be my lawfully

wedded soup kitchen, the soups. I'm not going to lie. That I'll do this here. hard. I really, you really scramble my brain because like I've only ever heard rappers say that. Yo man, I do this. You know what I'm saying? I've only

ever heard rappers say that. And I've never heard anyone use it correctly in the flow of conversation like that. Like he was like, yo, man, I'm like, I'm going back and forth with you. I'm, nigga, I give up. Fuck her. She was wrong.

But I do. You do? Oh, no. That's the thing. You have authority. And I've messed up. And I've messed up before. So that's why I have to acknowledge that the way she handled it was really good. Really good.

Sook it is. She also got embarrassed. She also got embarrassed. Siffy said, what do you do, though? I've accomplished all this before 50. What do you do, though? Oh, you out here barefoot on this carpet? You out of here barefoot on this carpet?

It was funny. But you're going to an antebellum party later? Um, look. All right, before we leave, I want to get. Trudy's opinion on this message. Donnie, do you have it for me? Go. So here's a, this guy

apparently matched with this woman on some dating profile, some dating app. I'm not sure which one it is. It could be what a hinger, Bumblebee, whatever they are. And they were going back and forth about a potential date and this is

a message that he sent her as far as what he thinks about them dating. Check it out. I'm doing pretty good. Let me just go ahead and cut to the chase. I don't know what you want, what you're looking for. People say they're looking for one thing. Their actions display another. So here's what I'm proposing.

We can vibe. We can chill. A lot of women get on this app and the first thing they want to say is, I'm not hooking up. I'm not fucking. I want your time and energy. I'm saying, okay, cool. That's exactly what you're about to start getting out here.

It's time and energy. So here's what I'm proposing in a respectful way. I understand you may not want to open up your legs because something of value is there to you. Well, something of valuable is in me opening up my wallet. So I don't want to use something valuable. You don't want to use something valuable. If it's mutual, let's do that. But what we can do is we can go on a date. You can spend your money on you. I spend my money on me. We can walk. We can talk. We can talk. We can. can have any conversation but that money stuff nah that finesse ain't going to happen no more not even with $5. So

let me know if you want to move forward if not that's okay. Why are you laughing? That is hilarious. He is so hurt. Trudy, get on the fucking podcast right now, Trudy. Trudy, I don't know about you

but I immediately looked up to see what he look like. Okay. Trudy, get on the fucking podcast. I am on. Nigger, your thoughts, nigger.

Your thoughts. So I just feel like you have to properly set up the rest of the context for everybody. So one, this is hands everybody. So he liked her picture. She matched with him. And then his message to her says,

hey. She says, hey, exclamation, how are you? Then he proceeds to send this voice note where he's clearly hurt in all crying and crazy shit. So I think the only real question to answer here

is who hurt you? Like who hurt you? That's just crazy as hell. So unsolicited? He just did this. Unsolicited. There is no, like unsolicited. I'm disappointed.

I'm disappointed. Bro crazy. I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed. You, I feel like sometimes y'all don't know what y'all want. This man, this man put it on the blueprint early on so that there is absolutely zero chance for wires getting crossed, confusion,

whatever may have you. This man put it out there for you. For you. So you'll know. I said, hey, how are you? Like there was no what's up, what city do you live? been like, do we do for on the weekend? There was no anything, no back and forth.

And on top of that, if you're broke, just say that. Okay, so let me ask you. Do you ask, you think he's broke? Oh, he's really broke his niggas. Oh, come. He's really broke. He's definitely broke. What's you going to get for five?

You can't even get a gallon of gas for $5. I remember back in the day, I remember, I literally remember back in the day where you could get like a real meal at McDonald's. for five for five hours. I remember the day that that changed, I was like, man, $5 dollars, five hours is defunct.

$5.00 ain't nothing. Gas for $5 dollars. $5 is, you can't do shit with $5 dollars. I don't even think in terms of $5. No. I'm not rich. No.

But Trudy, you don't have any kind of like room to talk because do you ask these niggas about themselves before you judge them for wearing hats? I would have never matched if he had a hat. but see so so this is what I'm saying so but if you meet a guy in the club the hat thing automatically you don't talk about like all the night this guy's saying the same thing he's basically saying all that other shit don't matter what matters is is that I can afford a two piece from churches

and I'm not giving up my five dollars I if you if you if you if things really are the way you say that they are truly oh I'm going to add a whole other level to this if these really are the way that you say that I don't see why you would have any problem with this. This should be a nigga you want to do. I'm going to keep it super funky with you. You pull up on me in the club and you have a hat on. I'm trying to laser vision my way through to see if you have a fucked up hairline or not. If it comes back inconclusive and you want to talk to me.

Tori Lines. You're probably going to end up buying me a drink. And if we're hanging around the bar and you kind of don't just come up out, like, oh, you want a drink about to get a drink. It was cool. We had a great conversation. So wait, would you accept the drink from a guy that you weren't interested in? It depends.

Finesse artist. Uh-oh. See? See? See? See? See? See?

That's what we're talking about. But wait. Five hours. No, no, no. Wait. This is the five hours. I want to. Donnie, find him.

I'm not even bullshit. When I say I'm not bullshit, I swear to God, want to find this guy. It's going to be hard. But just help me understand how we went from a hey to this full out voicemail. What do we miss in between? That's the only thing that I don't understand. But you know what?

You know who could, you know who could find, give us the answers? This guy. Find him. I'm more than happy to have him on the podcast. And you know what? Van and I are going to mute our mics and we go let Trudy, uh, navigate the conversation. He don't hate me. This is a fucking fantastic.

This is a fantastic idea. Thought warriors. Even the people from that place that we don't really talk about. Find this guy. Find him. I would like to find him. I would like to talk to him. A lot of people said that we shouldn't have Kevin Samuels on the podcast because he's mean.

And that's true. I agree. It's very true. But this guy, I feel like it's Trudy's match. What if we bring this guy on? Hell no. Hell can you imagine. I don't know.

Can you imagine? No, he's not at my waist level. If he's quipping over, I can't. I can't. I can not. Also, you guys, you know, I went on a date with a guy that was, had a fucked up hairline.

I felt so bad that I listened to y'all. And I would just say, I'll never listen to the Reddit ever again. Because it was exactly what I thought would be terrible. Because of his hair. He was just, it wasn't because of his hair. He was just a bad day. No, he was horrible. Like, it was horrible.

It was horrible. Trudy, I'm not going to lie, Trudy. I love you like a little sister. I really do. But I wish nothing but dating complication on you. Don't say that because right now we're actually, it's looking really good right now. You guys, like, I'll give you more details when they materialize,

but it's looking pretty great. That's fantastic. We'll go on a run and talk about it. Yeah. All right. We got to go. We gave you guys. 141.

We gave you guys like an hour fucking 30 on Will Smith. And I guarantee you you won't find that anywhere else. We broke it down detail by detail and had breaking news of Will Smith's. Apollogy. Oh, your podcast is going to come. Nah. Nigger. We was on top of the apology.

No man's very serious question. I think the very serious question is, can us as a culture hold each other accountable lovingly, accurately? and with logic and also still give ourselves soft bits to land on. We'll see how this gets dealt with. We'll see. Take the thing caps off. We do not stop learning.

I am Van Lee Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.