Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - XXL Freshman Class, and What Happened With Lizzo? Plus, the Last Gasp of Trumpism

Episode Date: June 26, 2026

Van and Rachel kick off the podcast with a follow-up discussion about Jasmine Crockett and James Talarico before digging into a pair of music industry topics. Plus, an awkward interaction during ESPN���s NBA draft coverage, and was A$AP Rocky disrespectful with the stuff he said during a performance? (0:00) Intro (0:17) A Crockett-Talarico recap (59:46) XXL Freshman Class: Auntie Rach vs. Baby Jade (1:08:55) Lizzo’s new album sales (1:24:03) Jokes about the Jay Williams accident (1:31:07) Was A$AP Rocky being disrespectful? (1:37:57) Is the GOP out of patience with Trump? (1:49:20) Black male suicide rates Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Jade Whaley Social Producer: Bernard Moore Video Supervision: Chris Thomas and Jacob Cornett The Ringer is committed to responsible trading. Please visit https://fanduel.com/predicts to learn more about the resources and helpline Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's do this. Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? How I. Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. This is Rachel Lynn Cheknikov of the Leninist, Stalinist. Oh, you like it? I love Marxist Rachel.

Put a, Donnie. This makes me Marxist? That's what people are saying the other side of it. Donnie, put a beret. put a beret on I guess it wouldn't be a beret it wouldn't be a beret because they're calling me they're saying I'm I'm Maga Maga Rage!

You know it's so funny because you can't on this podcast I'm told that I will It doesn't matter what when it's a black woman I'm there and I will fiercely defend them And and put down everybody else Then when I have a different take It's, oh my gosh, you'll love it, Van. She's a bed wench.

They love that one. She's an Uncle Tom. Bedwitch hit hard, bro. Bedwins is one of the world. It's just, you know, sometimes when things are like so low brow, it's like, I can't even give it. I always tell people, I'm like, you got to come harder than forehead jokes and she's white jokes, because I've been doing that shit for years.

You got to, if you want to, like, really get to me and hurt me, it's got to be some stuff that, like, that's so not true. Well, I mean, the forehead, you have big forehead. But it's just like, it doesn't faze me. You got to come, you got to be better. You got to be more creative. We can't be Lenin and Ingalls. We can't be Marx and Ingalls.

We can't be. But you like this. I don't like this at all. I don't like, I don't like the disrespect. No, I know you don't. You really do have, back. Yeah, I don't like the disrespect. Fuck that disrespect.

Fuck that shit. I like them. What I like is the overall, I like this tension in this day just let you guys know obviously I think this is healthy this is obviously us talking about comments about

Jasmine Jackson Crocket clip that we well segment that we talked about clip that was on social that really had people riled up about because that the clip is just my take on it about about Jasmine Crocket

Texas Should we? So there are a couple of things here. I think people are either, because the clip broke containment a little bit. It didn't go crazy, but it broke containment a little bit. Discussions. Like I had a lot of people say, hey, people hit me up about you.

Right, right. A lot of people hit me up about you as well. I think it's important to iron out a couple of things just for the sake of the discussion. Number one, you're from Texas. Yeah. So when people are coming at me, because a lot of people is like, Yo, why are you in Texas business? I'm not in Texas business.

Yeah, you said that on the last podcast. Yeah, I'm not in Texas business. Rachel is from Texas. Yeah, I'm from Texas. My family still lives there. My, and they're sprinkled all throughout Texas. My friends are there. My community is there.

My nephews are there. I only have two nephews. They will grow up in Texas, which means they are highly impacted by the future of Texas. Both the present and the future of Texas. Alistair. Alistair and Hendricks. So when I talk about this, I'm not doing it because for clicks.

I'm not doing it because Jasmine Crockett is somebody who usually trends and that's guaranteed a response in any kind of way. That's not why I'm doing it. I'm doing it because I'm invested in it. And I feel like it's personal to me. I'm passionate about it. And I feel like a lot of people who are having this discourse about Jasmine Crockett, James Talarico,

got the names right on this podcast. you don't have a vested interest in the state of Texas like I do. And not only that, my, I grew up in the very district that Jasmine used to represent. Obviously, we know with redistricting things have changed. But I grew up in that district. She currently represents the district where my family members live. Like, I don't live there, but I am very invested in it. That's why I'm paying attention to the race.

It's home. I'll be there next weekend. You know what I mean? So I'm not doing this just like we don't do, I don't do anything. And neither do you for just for show. We're doing it because it's something we're interested in. We want to talk about it. Oh, Van.

Maybe not Van. I don't do anything just for show, but I do do things for entertainment. That's different. But nothing that comes out of my brain is for entertainment. But obviously if I'm making a, like a comparison between the wire and that's for entertainment. But you also like believe in, you're not doing it for show is my point. Yeah. Like maybe a whiteboard is for show.

Maybe that's for show. But like we talk about topics that are of interest to us or that are, you know, viral within the community. It's like what we put on for the show. But that's not what this is for me. It is very personal. And it's shocking to me. I'm not expecting everybody to know every single thing about me.

But I'm surprised people don't know that I'm Texas. Well, I don't think that anybody that listens to us and faithfully doesn't know that you're Texas. I just think that there were some people that might be talking to me. Well, we had a conversation both with the same person who had no. Did not know us from Texas? Oh, that is. That is, what the fuck?

Was that the start of our podcast? Oh, yeah. Jay, calm down over there. So, yeah, that didn't know that it was a Texas thing that didn't know, like, how invested you were into this and the reasons why. And so to me, when we're talking about this, it would seem, and it might be on another podcast that Jazz and Crockett or this particular race or James Salarico or whatever, that there was some laser focus. or picking on or something in that nature. But like, I think this being where your parents still live and the state and something else. Hold on real quick.

I'm not going to speak too much about Texas business. Texas business, but, you know, Texas wasn't always like this. And if you're a, I would imagine, let me ask you, if you are a Texan of a certain age, someone that can remember when Ann Richards was the governor of Texas, when Texas was a little bit more purple-ish, before it became a deep, deep red, almost the seat of MAGA, honestly, a MAGA stronghold. It's become a massive. It's one of the states.

Louisiana, I'm not trying to joke here, but Texas is one of those places to where, hey, you're leaving one of your failing Democrat states, move to Texas, move to Florida. Texas and Florida are probably those two types of places, right? And I wonder, for you, is the opportunity to change the trajectory of your state, trajectory, I can never say that word, is how deeply personal that must be. How personal is that? Well, I mean, like, you also have to look at where I, how I was raised in it. I grew up. My dad is not an elected official, but my dad was in city government, was like in city government as the city attorney. My dad was appointed by Clinton to be, my dad was the

first black city attorney in Dallas. My dad was appointed. My dad was appointed. by Clinton to be first black federal judge in the Northern District. I was around politicians. One of my dad's good friends, Ron Kirk, first black mayor city of Dallas. I was around City Hall a lot. Like I knew the names of city council members. I knew like my dad going to the University of Texas for law school,

just going back to that, seeing who all is connected, you know, whether they're on the Texas Supreme Court or courts, elected courts within the state of Texas. Like, I just grew up around it. And so I remember meeting Ann Richards, governor of Texas. I remember the feeling of, oh, my gosh, I am meeting a governor and she's a woman.

I can recall those things. Like, my dad will always tell stories. He was like, you always just fascinated by these people's names. I've never wanted to be a politician, but I was so around it. My school was in downtown Dallas. My dad worked at City Hall, which was in downtown Dallas. So after school, I would be at his office a lot.

I would see certain things. So for me, even though necessarily my parents aren't, and my parents are like community involved because obviously part of being getting elected specifically by the black community is being involved in black churches. Mega churches are a huge thing in Dallas. I go to one of the mega churches in Dallas, grew up at a small church, but still like your friends go to these megachurches. It's just like, there's just such a community there.

And, you know, despite how y'all met me on The Bachelor, I grew up from Oak Cliff. Yes, I went to private school, but I lived in a black community. I went to a black church. I was very involved. You know you don't owe them this, right? I don't owe them this, but maybe for the people who don't understand me. But see, but I'm, but I am understanding of people meeting me on a Bachelor, which is a white show, and the Bachelor was white, then me becoming the Bachelorette. still a white show and picking somebody who's not white.

So I get that that's people's first knowledge of me. So I don't get mad at that. Where it gets frustrating is that's the only thing that defines me when I've been doing this podcast for six years. I know not everybody listens, but things that I've stood for when it comes to The Bachelorette or The Bachelor, that franchise, things I've spoken out on this podcast

and even me now just talking about my upbringing. That's why, you're right, I don't owe them that. I'm just trying to give more understanding to where the passion comes from. Like when I say these things on this podcast, I'm having conversations with community leaders in Dallas. I'm talking to some of my sorority sisters

who are very connected throughout Texas. Yeah, and not even considering Delta, like community service and political awareness and involvement are pillars of being a Delta. So, like, that's stuff that we were doing, I've been doing since college. So, yeah, like, it's different for me. And if this was Louisiana,

I'd be a little bit more quiet and you would be more vocal because you're more heavily invested. But I think that you were saying this, well, let me let you finish because you were saying there's certain things that you wanted to set out in regards to this discussion. And the first thing is that I'm from Texas. Yeah, I mean, that's the first thing. So the first thing is that you're, Rachel's from Texas. Like being that she's from Texas, this is something that is incredibly important. And just while we're talking, let's widen the aperture here. We're having conversations about a lot of things at the same time.

One thing we're having a conversation is about people versus person. And I always talk about that, people versus person. But that's important. We shouldn't, I shouldn't, just gloss over the fact that the protection of individuals in our goal to be a more cohesive community is very important, right? I've said it before, we've talked about it before. It's the reason why, you know, I'll continue to bring up Colin Kaepernick is because we can't protect black people unless we protect black person, right?

That's very true. I believe that. I believe it so strongly, and I want to give examples and deepen it and talk for 55 hours about it, but I'm not going to be long-winded. I understand that. I will say, though, that, like, there is something else that we have to be concerned with. It's a difficult conversation. It's not an easy one because it takes discernment

to have this conversation. We are all black, but we are not all the same. Some of us are imbued with power. Some of us are imbued with wealth. Some of us are imbued with a great mandate to use that power now. wealth to serve other black people and there are different ways that we have to look at those people

we talk a lot about the black community is this cohesive thing but it sometimes pains us to talk about intra-community dynamics we've we've dealt with those pains as podcasters black woman black man sometimes it's difficult for us to talk about the rich of us the poor of us, the gay of us, the straight of us, the woman of us, the man of us, you know. And now it seems like because of some of the abuse and some of the disappointments that we've seen over the last decade, it's getting tough to talk about the politicians of us. Like we see ourselves in the elected officials that represent us. They sound like us.

they walk like us, they talk like us, they want us to believe that they are us. And energetically as human beings, they are. These are people with names that we understand, with stories that we understand, with experiences and backgrounds that we understand. But guys, in function, they're just not us. Yeah.

They're not us. They're not us. And it's in function, they're not us. In soul, in community. in energy, they might be. A lot of them not. They might be, but in function, they're not us. In function, what they are are people who have made the decision of themselves and been

entrusted with a tremendous burden. And that burden is to go out and make black people's lives better, to champion and to fight for black people. And there's a threshold in the standard. This has nothing to do with anybody individually. What I'm talking about is a larger conversation around the fact that we need to stop, we need to stop falling in love with these people. We need to stop falling in love with them.

I'm not saying we can't love them, but we can't fall in love with them. We can love them. You can love any leader or whatever, but don't fall in love. Falling in love is the type of thing to where you sacrifice a part of yourself to keep that love going. That's Coltman-Tal. Right. So that is my thing.

And I've been trying to have this conversation and talk to everyone about this for, a while. For me, at least, we have to be able to call balls and strikes and we have to also be self-critical. And I've had to learn how to be better at being self-critical in these moments so that I don't come off like I'm preaching or teaching to somebody. But man, if somebody is a change agent and they say that they're a change agent and they say that they are putting forth, they want to go out there and they want to fight, I expect them to fight. And once again, I'll say this is not about Jasmine Crockett. This is about anyone

that, like, would be in that situation and be beholden to a foreign interest or takes money from the wrong people or doesn't go by it the right way. We have to be free to have those kind of conversations. We have to be free to have honest conversations, which we've talked about on the podcast. And it's honestly why I've been nervous

to have this conversation in particular about Jasmine because I know how emotionally invested people are. And I'm not saying that those emotions aren't rightful, but sometimes those emotions can cloud you looking at the bigger picture. Because in the conversation that you and I had last week, to be very clear, there was no particular attack on Jasmine by either one of us. Neither one of us said that Jasmine had a duty to do anything. Neither one of us said that she owed James Talarico anything. And nobody said or anything that we talked about was about her or asking her to be a quote.

quote, because this is something that I keep seeing out there, a mule for the Democratic Party. Nothing that we said was that. I knew what we talked about would be controversial because, as I just said, a lot of people are emotionally invested and because of how the online discourse has continued to debate Jasmine and James, despite the primary being done in March. But when I look at the response that people are having, as a person who's very concerned about the present and the future of Texas, I'm very fearful that this upcoming race is going to be tainted by people who can't vote in Texas or aren't personally invested in Texas. Oh, you're telling people to say our Texas business?

Well, of course, because I think that it is, there's a lot of misinformation out there. There's a lot of things that I think people aren't paying attention to when it comes to the particulars and are focusing on one thing rather than I'm saying like the biggest, the bigger picture. And I'm so afraid that it's going to disenfranchise the black community from voting because the energy that they may have had for voting for a Jasmine Crockett is really being depleted by a lot of this online discourse about James. And really it's about a lot of the people who are fighting for him online, who, again, have no stake in any of this,

rather than listening to some of the people who are actually in Texas and who are telling you some of the honest things that are happening when it comes out to that. That's why when it comes to that, that's why when I talked about Jasmine, rather than being personal, I wanted to use her own words. Despite what Jasmine Crockett said in that clip that we played on the podcast, it's not that people are talking, or I'll say us, it's not that we're talking about her and making it about her. It's, I'm responding to that statement that she made because previous multiple statements completely contradicted. And to your point, what you said at the end, if it's about the people, it's about the people. So the day of the election, the primary,

this interview was published. It was probably a few days before. But she was asked about would she campaign for Tala Rico? And she said, and this is different from the other statement that I read, she said, absolutely, that's a quote, if Tala RICO won the nomination, she said, the reality is that it has to be bigger than any single individual. When was that statement made? It was published March 3rd. So it was before the results. Okay.

Now, let me ask you a question. Can I finish reading the statement though? Oh, yeah, my bad. The reality is that it has to be bigger than any single individual. This is about us winning. That is what it's about. And when I say us winning,

I mean us as Texans. Now go ahead. Is it, you say March 3rd? It was published March there. It's probably published. Okay. Is there a possibility that that statement could have been made before the race got particularly contentious. And Jasmine Crockett or her team or people have been subjected to either what they believe to be a lot of fury from people who are Telerico supporters or what they think is covert hate and harassment from the Tala Rican supporters?

or what they think is covert hate and harassment from the Tala Rico campaign. Well, this was published March 3rd, which was the day of the election. The day of the election. Yeah, the day of the election. So it was probably around that time. No, I know what you're saying. Go ahead. No, no, no.

I want to speak for people who might say, yeah, she might have felt like that, but she can change her mind. And she can change her mind. And I want to get to that point too. She can change her mind. but to your point about what she had been subjected to, that was when she was being rumored to run, when she threw her name in. From the moment she threw her name in,

she was unfairly stereotypes. Like we saw it happen. People attacked her relentlessly online. Even after she lost, she was getting attacked. That is definitely something that is true. And to your point, she can change her mind. But the comment that she made is so important, and I think it's right.

It is bigger than the end. individual. It really is about winning because what is it, because what's at stake for Texas. And to win, it requires you to unify. And she's like, that's why it's about us. This is her statement. It's about Texans. This is why I was using her words because what she's saying is right. And the reason that people are focusing on what she said last week when asked, will you support, same question she was asked three months ago, actively support because people were like, she said she would support him. This is what people are saying since the clip came out. She said, said she would support him. She said she endorsed him. Right. But the question is, will you actively

support earlier? She said, absolutely. She explains why. When she's asked three months later, she says, I have no idea. That is what I'm focusing on because of what she talked about. It's about us winning. It is about the bigger picture. And you're right. She has her full right to change her opinion. She could change her opinion because of how she was attacked, which is a lot of people say. she can change her opinion for all the things people are saying it's not her duty she doesn't have to she doesn't want to let let them do the work all of that is true but i guess what i can't get past is it's not making it about her right if you have dedicated your time and your energy to supporting your constituents and the people of texas and particularly the people who look like you your black

community. Why would you keep your foot off the gas? Now, and two things can be true, right? I'm not saying that we shouldn't, that James Tilarico should not work for the black vote. Absolutely. We should continue to hold him accountable for that. But that also doesn't mean that we just stop and we don't continue to fight and energize the base. And particularly a non-vote would be a vote against your interest. And I think that's some of my biggest frustration is you are a public servant. You've dedicated most of your career to being that. So why would that stop now? It shouldn't stop because it is about the bigger picture.

It is about wanting the best for us in the state of Texas, which is not the other side of it. And I can run down for people who aren't aware of Kim Paxton. All you need to know is he is a fiercely loyal Trump supporter and he will support him at all costs. And you know at this point what supporting Trump means. and even particularly when the state of Texas, he's a very corrupt individual.

He has been indicted for a felony. He has been impeached even by members of his own party, but he is anti-D-EI. He supports abortion bans, which have directly impacted black maternal health. He is a staunch supporter of redistricting. He has gone after, he's an election denier. He has filed lawsuits to do things to dilute the black vote

in other states. It's like he is so anti-black. Right. Okay. I love it. You're getting into it. Can I, can I? Go ahead.

Okay. So you, you, you said something earlier. And by the way, guys, I took a mushroom this morning. I don't know if you guys been, I know if you guys been, like, noticing. I mean, a little bit more mellow, a little bit more clear. What kind of mushroom? It took some mushrooms. How many milligrams?

I'm not sure, but I took like three of them. They say you can take three. It's a gummy. They say you could take three. What's the brand? I can't remember, bro. It's like mushroom niggas.com. Are they the ones that I...

It might be. They up by your crib. Oh, you went to the store? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so... Oh, no. So I'm clear and I'm thinking totally dope. No, I can't believe you took three, though.

All right, so look. It's only going to get worse. So look, you said something earlier. and you said we have to keep our foot on the gas, right? I wonder, because I talk to Risi, I talked to a couple of other people. People will blow my phone up about this.

I talk to Risi too. I thought people will blow my phone up about this. I wonder if they feel like they've been, and when I say them, I'm saying black women, some black women, if they feel like they've been kicked out the car. Why? Well, so this is the deal, right? Foot on the gas kicked out the car.

Like I wonder if they feel like they feel like they've been kicked out the car. I think, like, and. And the reason I'm asking you why is not because I don't understand. I'm asking you why, because are they saying it in particular to this race and maybe Kamala? That's what I'm asking you. So I think there's a response and a reaction. And the response is to some electoral trends that we've seen.

Ignoring some other black ladies that have been elected, we should say that. there have been some victories, but there have also been some pretty high profile defeats where it seems as if that the will is not with the democratic base to empower black women yet. Like they don't want to do that. I say yet, but who knows if they ever will? And that if we want black women in power,

the only way to do it is to actually, like, punish the base a little bit. I'm speaking for people. I'm not saying anyone told me this. But that because Kamala lost, there's going to be a re, when I was on the phone with Risi, Risi said Great White Hope. Yeah, she said great a hope. Several different times, right? And I thought that was interesting that she continued to say that.

First of all, I like to say, I have a tremendous amount of respect for Risi Culbert. We do not agree on this issue. We had a conversation that was cordial but adversarial. But I believe that she remains a pretty vital voice. and all it is. Which is why we both had separate conversations with her. And I told her, I'm calling you because I respect your opinion. Yeah.

That's why I wanted to have a conversation with her. I mean, she indicted us. Like, we should say that, like, she posted on the, she posted on the, on the, the, the Instagram, and her post was an indictment of the show. Yeah, she kind of walked it back a little bit when I was talking to it. Well, the indictment of the show is not fair. She agreed. Yeah, I don't think the indictment of the show is fair.

I don't think the indictment of the show holds any water whatsoever. I think she's dead wrong. And I thought it was needlessly divisive and infirmatory. But I've been there. So I know. So it happens. Like if what the message on the show said was like, we would think this or you would think this because we had Keith Edwards on.

Platformed. We platformed Keith Edwards. It wasn't just even platform. It was we platformed the guy who's led a racist online attack against Jasmine, which is not what we did. Right. So, but even. if we put him on the show.

But why? To talk about how he is with black women. But even more than that, there's even more context of that, in my opinion. We put him on because he was using things that were said on this show. Yes. To amplify. Yes.

And underscore things that he was saying. So we wanted to have a conversation, not even as much about politics, but about the way that we exist in solidarity and cultural translation so you know that it don't matter how right you are

talk nice to black ladies right you know what I mean so so I mean that's a deal if you don't think that that's a thing then we can fight when we see each other in terms of that not with no hands I fuck Keith up but I'm just joking I'm not gonna fuck you up maybe Keith will be taking like cry of my guy you never know what other nigga Keith just kick me dead my shimp bitch but what you thought you were going to

like but no so while I didn't think that while I didn't think that was fair I think that what I'm talking about as far as being kicked out the car relates back to that

it relates back to that because I could tell in our conversation that there was some frustration there and the frustration might come from the fact that now what you're going to see is the Democrats probably center and promote the whitest milk toast candidates that they have. You're going to get James Tolariko, somebody that can stand there and respond to and connect

with white voters in Texas. You're going to get Grand Platner in Maine. No matter what we learn about Grand Platinum, he's going to stand there, fill out the cable knit sweater and talk to the farmers in Maine and say, hey, I'm an oyster farmer, and I'm just like you and listen to what she's saying and blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's going to succeed. whereas every single

idiosyncrasy of any black woman that would have run in that situation fuck having a Nazi tattoo having any tattoo right right like any idios secrecy

for a black woman is going to be pulled apart and I understand that frustration yeah I totally get it yes this is what I would say is all of that everything that we're talking about

is that worth one black mother dying during childbirth. Like just, y'all, we're all on the same page. I love y'all even when y'all don't like me. Straight up. Is everything we're talking about, all of it, is it worth one black mother dying during childbirth? Because along with a politician comes policy.

Now, James Telerico is very cynically, in my opinion, including some things in his platform, maybe not cynically, but very deliberately. Well, why wouldn't he? He has to reach out to the black community. So he has now a black maternal mortality. So it's like, which you can't complain, right? You can't be like, oh, well, now you want to talk about black maternal health.

Who gives a fuck? He's talking about, hopefully he implements it. Hopefully he does. But what I'm saying is, let's say that things weren't done to get not that man elected, but that policy enacted. Would you be willing in a year? to have someone, a black woman with a baby inside of her, would you be willing, let's say it's not one year, let's say it's five years,

whatever it is, would you be willing to have her life snatched by doctors who aren't listening to her, by doctors who don't understand how to care from her, for her not having access to care because of all of this? Is that worth it? Is that actual thing that can happen to somebody worth this? And by the way, that answer might be yes. And that's the part that we never talk about. We always talk about the people that have to be free,

but we never talk about the people that have to be fucked over because we want to act like we don't do that. But the fuck if you don't, nigger, you do. You do it all the time. You do it all the time for the people that you like, for the side that you've chose, and for the house that you are walking into. You do it all the time.

You fuck people over. And the question, is from a political standpoint if we're trying to care for people free people educate people make sure they have what they need how can we stop fucking them over how can we put people

in place that implement policy that has a lasting meaningful difference and last thing I'll say because it's not my fight this is yours how do we center these arguments not on our feelings

right but on our future man like it can't be both fascism is this corrosive all encompassing we're going to lose it all thing

but also your feelings are hurt like I guess it can be but fuck yeah like I mean either either I'm starting that not to under either we under the rule of fascism from another planet

and they stamping out everything, taking everything, killing people in the streets, doing all of this. Either that's happening or it's not. It seems like if that's happening, I don't see fuck what we're talking about in the black part of Democratic. I'm not so sure if I see the

appropriate energy or resistance from anyone. If everything that they're saying is true, y'all sure don't act like that. Jasmine Crockett and James Talarico had different strategies and how they were going to try to win the Democratic primary. James Tolariko did not focus on the black community,

probably because he knew in a primary he didn't stay at a chance. Not saying that excuses it, but that's probably why he didn't focus on it as much. But since he won, has said he cannot win Texas without the black vote, which is very true. He cannot win without the black vote. So why can't both things be the case? you are frustrated and you are upset that you feel like,

and it's not just a feeling, it is true, that your vote is expected, they are using your vote, depending on your vote, without fully trying or giving policies that support the very people that vote for them. So demand the things that you want, like a black maternal health policy,

which is something, because in Texas, black women are disproportionately dying at higher rates than any other race. and so here comes somebody with a policy I don't know what's going to happen if he gets if he wins how that all will work out

but it's the idea you can go but I can get it done but there is a policy that is specifically speaking to the needs of the community so you keep the you have the emotion and you have the frustration and you say you want our vote

these are what our demands are and you see if they're meaning them but don't say I'm not going to vote or not that people are specifically saying that but it's like it's not our duty we don't have to do all of that I hope Jasmine does nothing like she can just sit there like that's not what it should be it should say okay this is the person who has the best policies for our community these we are more policies we need you to to say you're going to

fight for should we vote for you why can't that be something that's done but back to like having the honest conversation because we talk about Jasmine Crockett, and we talk about the uphill battle she had being a black woman in Texas and how she was unfairly stereotyped. But we can't say that that's the reason that she did not win the primary.

We have to also have an honest conversation about campaigning. Because what I think gets lost sometimes is, and again, I'm not telling people to let go of their frustrations and emotions, is last year we saw two black women become U.S. senators in Delaware and in Maryland. And I encourage everybody to go look at,

Roland Martin did a whole thing on this three months ago about breaking down the statistics and the numbers and the strategy of both the Tala Rico campaign and the Crockett campaign and how one strategy was completely lacking what the other one didn't have. And that's just a true conversation that you have to talk about

if you're going to talk about somebody's campaign in general. It wasn't just one thing. It was a lot of things. And the more you talk about people who are community leaders within Texas or even have the national experience when it comes to working on campaigns, they will tell you that Jasmine ran a bad race. And the odds were against her in certain things. I'm sorry, that's the truth. We have to have this honest conversation. She ran last minute, months after James Talariko did.

So he already had this grassroots campaign. this, this, this, this energy behind him, um, money behind him. The campaign was already rolling on the ground. He had thousands, tens of thousands of volunteers. When Jasmine came in, we talked about the rollout of it all, but her strategy was to focus on the five big counties rather than the state as a whole. James Telerico had a completely different strategy of that.

And if you don't believe what I'm saying, please go look at the breakdown that Roland Martin did on his show where he talks about specific. counties. He talks about even in Dallas County or Harris County, she didn't win by a large enough percentage to even get those votes. And a lot of people did not vote. You were banking on people to vote in some of these in the biggest counties when they still didn't come out and vote in the primary. Because if we've talked about on the show, less people vote in a primary than they do in the general election. And so certain things you also have to discuss about the campaigning of it. You talk to people that said they didn't see signs.

They didn't get mailers. There's certain things like that. They didn't get phone calls. So there were a lot of things that were done and maybe because of the timing of it all that just worked against the Crockett campaign that worked for the Tala Rico campaign. So there's a lot of factors that weren't just a black woman and a white man. There were other things that were a part of this campaign that led to the results that we got in March as well. And I think we just have to have those honest conversations because it's not that a black woman can't be a U.S. senator. As I just said, I gave you two examples that just happened last year when we're in this very

contentious place in our society, particularly when it comes to race. But I guess I'm saying all of this and the reason that I wanted to talk about it and I had to get over a fear of how controversial it could be or people claiming certain things about me is because I am passionate about it and I'm really afraid at the way things are going that people are Texans, not people, are going to be different. disenfranchised to vote when the other side of it is just so bad. And you have to understand. I am not asking you to not feel what you feel.

I'm not asking you to put pressure on James Tolarico or other Democrats that aren't black to do things for the black community. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is do both. Put the pressure on them. But also, we have to work on the bigger issue of turning Texas blue and getting the better policies that work for you. And that's never going to come from a Kim Paxton or anybody who's running a MAGA campaign.

Well said. So I'll say two things. One, to James Tolarico, and then I'll ask you something before we move off this. Because I think there's a deeper conversation here, not even a deeper conversation, but a different conversation. I do think that James Tolariko should do one thing that I'm not sure if he's doing right now. Okay. all the white people

that are listening you're white somewhere you're sitting down and you got up to brush your teeth this morning and you went fuck I'm white you know you guys always ask the same question you've been asking this question since since 1619

what can we do to help and there's always been different answers what we could do to help man 1619 what we could do to help is teach you how to read, civilized y'all, put y'all in dresses and, you know, give you religion. Y'all thought y'all was helping. And after that, you get out, what can we do to help? Well, we want to help. We want to help. We want to put you to work as sharecroppers. We want to help. You know, we want to help. What can we do to help? And then you get to a point where you're dealing with a bunch of white liberals.

And they're like, oh, my God, I'm not so sure. What could I do? What could I do? What could I do? They never do the thing, which is right in front of them, which is people. They never do people. they never help people they never reach out to people they never make enrols with people they are part of a system so they think that they have to fix the system they can't really do that

what they could do is actually invest into someone right so if James Talarico was really interested and I don't know that he hasn't done this but I don't know that he has he was really interested

in reaching out to the black community, he would start with Jasmine Crockett first. He was really interested in reaching out to... What would that look like? Because there's conflicting things from his camp versus her camp. Okay, what is his camp saying? Educate me.

He's reached out and without a response. That he's reached out to her and she hasn't said anything. Yeah, like that he sent her a few mess. But maybe not as hard, right? Like, not as hard as he should. Right. Because I've only seen like,

oh, he's sent her like a few methods. or something like that. So if it were me, and I was James Tala Rico, you guys know that I am hard-headed, but I don't seek to be dumb. I seek to be someone who is useful. It's not about bending the knee or getting down in front of her and groveling or anything like that.

It's about saying I recognize how this looks, how this feels. But not only that, I recognize what you've been through. because another thing that we're discussing when we're talking about Congresswoman Crockett is we watched her trauma. We watched her get beat up from the highest pulpit in the nation.

And to see her go through that and then be out of politics, essentially, at least for a while. Huge loss, by the way. Like, be out of politics. That's also gutting for a lot of people because they feel like, Trump won.

And if Trump didn't win, then there was just another white boy with a nicer hair cut and a softer voice that came in and did the same thing. But he did it with a smile, with smaller knife, death by 1,000 cuts. So if Tala Rico or anybody were, if I was in that situation, then I was James Tala Rico. The first thing I would do would be to make sure with whatever amount of force and enthusiasm that I could, that I connected with her. I connected with her.

I reached out to her. I made sure that I platformed her. Not that I asked her to come along and be under whatever movement that we're doing, but understanding the power of her voice, the power of who she is, and also acknowledging how things went and what she's gone through.

Now, if you're saying that he's done that... Oh, I don't know. But what I'm saying is, is even if... Let's just say he had. Yeah. And we're still where we are. I don't think he has probably.

He probably hasn't. Not in that way, right? But it's like it's a lose-lose situation. Because if he has, because of where we are right now, right? If he has done that, right, or some form of it or whatever. Or even reached out like he said, he sent messages and hasn't had a response. He can't say that. He can't really say, hey, I tried to reach out and I and.

Well, it's not about that, though. It's not a lose-lose because. it's not about winning. It's not a lose-lose because it's the right thing to do. No, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying lose-lose is in this situation of like, it'll look bad because he can't, if he says, I tried to, she didn't, the response will be, well, she doesn't have to because that's kind of what we're getting right now. She doesn't have to. I'm not saying everybody. I'm saying particularly what we've seen in these, this, she doesn't have to. She doesn't have a duty. She doesn't owe you anything.

She doesn't do-da-da. So like, it's almost like. What I'm trying to tell you is that we're having two different conversations. Okay, tell me. I'm not having a conversation that's right now that's from the purview of what is politically expedient for him or like what he should do from a political standpoint. What I'm saying is more so, let me be clear, what I'm saying is if he actually cares about building community with black people, then he could put up a bunch of policies that are great for us and that's amazing and that's very important.

That's what you should do as a politician. but if he wants to foster community, that he should try to do it with Jasmine Crockett. And if he has, you're saying he should say it. No, no, no, no. I'm not saying that he should say it. I'm saying because I don't know whether or not he has or whether or not he hasn't.

We're not having a conversation, which is another thing about what James Salarico has or hasn't done. We're having a conversation about what Jasmine Crockett has or hasn't done. And the reality of that conversation is if Jasmine Crockett has just decided, no matter what he's going to do, no matter what's going to happen, no matter how this can go,

if Jasmine Crockett has just decided at this point that the people of Texas show me their ass, so I'm going to show them mine, then there's nothing you can say about that. And by the way, that's her fucking business. Yeah, we see that. So if she's decided that, then that's the deal. What I'm believing, though,

what I believe and what I choose to believe is that she hasn't decided that. I don't think that she has. I don't think that she's the side of that. I hope so. Okay, so moving off this real quick, because we'll be on this bitch for like an hour almost. I want to ask you a question.

I'm going to try to ask this without smiling. You're already doing that. Okay. How did it feel legitimately? How did it legitimately feel? Now you can stop. You can get at me now. Now it's I'm the target.

How did it legitimately feel to have what you thought was a cogent? fair and intellectual take regarding a black woman then weaponized to you don't support black women. How did that actually feel? I don't think it hurt me as much as you might think it did. Wow. When they do it to me, it feels like a fucking kick in the nuts. I get so, you're telling me I don't love my mama?

Well, it's crazy when it happens to me. It really bothers me. You know why? maybe because I am a black woman. Oh, okay. So it didn't hurt me like that because I understand what they're saying. I understand the sentiment.

I understand the frustration on certain levels in different ways. I've experienced it myself. And so I'm not mad at their feelings. And I'm not saying you are when they come at you either. I'm not mad at their feelings. I understand. it and I just wanted to have a conversation of take those frustrations and use them in a

different way. Let's not use them in ways that I feel like is causing people to not want to vote or to tear down to not unify the party because my whole thing and I keep saying this and if there is a part that hurts, it's like I guess you think that I'm not, you know, like people being like, oh, Rachel, shut up. Oh, Rachel, please. Oh, Rachel, you don't get it. those things don't hurt me because I do get it.

So I'm not offended by it because that's not true. Right. And I feel like my track record shows that. So, yeah, I more was just disappointed that people weren't listening to what I was saying. And that's what I felt like. It was feelings first, which I understand. And I just felt like their feelings were clouded. You're not listening to it.

I was very particular with my words. and that's why I chose to use Jasmine's words because I did not want to personally attack Jasmine. I didn't say it so people could go after her. I didn't say it so the other side could use it against her. I said it because I want people to look past, keep your feelings and use it as a motivating factor, but don't let that cloud the bigger picture of things.

So for me, I guess I didn't look at it like, man, it's, I mean, it all it sucks, right, that people weren't understanding what I was saying. And if the narrative from here on out is Rachel doesn't support black women, that would suck. If that's what people hold on to. But I understand, I understand,

I understand, um, the energy behind it. I really do. I really do. So like, oh, go ahead, my man. No, no, go ahead.

No, no. I'm done. Like, when my dad was still living, my dad would be like, he's like, the only opinion that matters is the opinions

that's inside of this house. and he was talking about of him. Like he was not the kind of guy that would be like, I don't care if you think I'm a good father and a good provider. Like I'm running this shit here. That's not what he didn't want. That was, he wasn't like that. He was like, yo, I care what you think about me

because you should be able to look at me and see an example. Or at least see somebody that if it goes left that you know is going to be on your side, right? But he would like, he would say, I will say this, though. I do care. what the people on this block think of me. And I'd be like, oh, he's expanding it. I'd be like, well, why do you care what they, like, what they say?

He was like, because what they think about me is what they think about you. How they regard me is how they're going to treat you. So if they look at me with respect, a little bit of fear, a little bit of fear, then when they see you, they're going to see the value. They're going to see me in you.

And he was like, now that I think about it, and he was making a point here, he goes, I also care what they think about me at your school. He's like, I care what your principal thinks of me. I care what your football coach, what your chemistry teacher. I care what they think of me. He's like, all the black people in your life,

like I care what they think of me because I want you to be pretend. I want you to be valued. I want people to know that Van Lathen Jr. is here. What he did was he set up for me an idea of community to where black

people's opinions of me matter. Like they, I don't overvalue them, but within the community, we got to be able to talk about each other. So when I'm talking about something and someone goes, oh, you hate black women or you

hate black men or you hate this person, hate this person. I want to get to the bottom of that because that is corrosive and malignant. Right? Like that type of everything of these conversations

just they're so so not useful. I agree. Because we are once again, we can get off of it. We're talking about power. We're talking about politics. We're talking about the rich people that are asking you guys to go out and buy that shit. We're arguing over like,

which fucking billionaire we should fucking support. My God, man, we're in the dirt. And it's like, I'm trying to say, hey, what about you? What about you? What about you? What about you?

What about you? What about you? That person? Or you are them? Or you are the person? You're the politician. You're the billionaire. You're the actor.

You're the rapper. If you think you're them, good luck good luck with that good luck with that I hope they bring you the can I hope you get to go on the boat I hope you get to park your wealth

you know what I'm saying I hope you get to like not have to pay any taxes on your I hope you get to hang out with all of the people and you get to do this I hope you get to do all of that I'm gonna tell you right now

you ain't gonna get to do it you gonna drink the liquor that they gave to you and then you're gonna argue about them the whole day and then you'll get your ass up and go to work. Like what I care about is what's going on in your community and how you could be better because I feel like I am you. Yeah, same. So, like, I do not like that stuff and I think we should do less of that stuff.

Should. Until, you know, we're obviously in the company of ops. And then even that we'll talk about. Okay, well, Rachel said, say what she said. Yeah. I would hope that it's not a thing that. continues, like I said, because that's important. But I don't mind people disagreeing with me.

Yeah. And I don't mind having those conversations. Well, I guess, nigga, the question is now, are you going to go out there and campaign for Tala Rico? What are you going to do? Oh, I'm pretty sure people are expecting me to do that. Now you got to go out with him. You got to be a guy with Tala Rico.

Did we ever ask him about the only fan stuff? That was after. We had Tala Rico on before he even said he was running. So, but like, but he, but is that true with the only fans? What they said was is he just follows people back who support him or something like that

like it was like yeah I don't know if it's him or his campaign or whatever but let me see right now if Chaluriko follow me back because if he hasn't followed me back

he followed me back but he's following freaky freak 69 I'm gonna have some I'm gonna have some questions okay so he's only following 3,900 people so

he ain't following back everybody that's following him. Is he following me? Let's see. Yeah, he follows me. See? Let me see who else he goes. He got on here. He following him. He following some niggas. Okay. We'll see what happens. Look, he got a picture. Look at him. Look at him. Look at him. Look at him. Look at. He got a picture of him and a black girl. Look. Look. James Tolerico.

See, he's making strides, guys. Look at that. Look at that. I can take pictures with you people. He's making strides. Happy Juneteenth. Honored to March and Dr. Opel Lee's annual Dunneteet, the Walk for Freedom. Shout out to Tallulico, man.

I don't know if I ever want to talk about Texas again. Y'all am I had about this year. All right, Donnie, on the other side of this break, we're going to get to something a little bit lighter. Donnie's choice, whatever it is, something lighter. Donny's choice on the other side of this break. This episode is brought to you by Fan Dual Predicks. You can predict the summer soccer showcase action

all the way to the final match with Fan Dual Predict. All you have to do is sign up to get your $25 bonus. From the opening game to the final whistle, stay locked in with every pass, every goal, and every moment that moves us closer to crowning a champion. Sign up now for your $25 bonus on FandualPredicts. Go to fendual.com slash predicts to sign up. That's fendul.com slash predicts to get your $25 bonus.

Offered by Fandul Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus restriction supply, See terms at Fanduil.com slash predicts slash bonus dash offer dash terms. I thought that was extremely well done. But go ahead, Donnie. Yeah, agreed. No, no pushback there.

That was our longest quick hitter, but maybe our best most in there. Donnie is so shady. Donnie. Donny, what's going to say. What's going on with you, dog? You know that wasn't going to be a quick hitter. It was good. It was good.

Yeah. I loved it. I'm genuinely. That was a good conversation. They tried to put Rachel. Somebody was, somebody asked me, can I just say one thing before you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He loves that.

So I don't love it. But I'm just going to say this one last time. I'm going to be quick. If you call me and you're talking some shit about her, I'm going to bust your ass. Was it a man or a woman? It was a man. Okay. And I'm going to bust your ass.

And it's going to get uncomfortable. You're going to get your ass bust. So just be nice. Whatever it is. I'm going to bust your ass. Somebody hit me up and they were like, She's more on that Omarosa type of black woman thing I was like

I was like you know what I don't like We don't move on You know what I don't like? This is what I don't like for real Like see that's so low brow I don't even give it I don't even give anything back I know I think I think he was trying to play

But you know what I don't like And this is a player proof thing Me and Gino once got on a nigga ass for this I never told you the story When me and Gino are sitting around And somebody was talking to me and Gino Like they was gonna do Ryan something and I'm like

me and Gino we listen to this conversation we're like I'm like this nigga must think we bitch ass niggas that we would let you talk about our guy

I'm like I'm like oh you are you a whole thing I'm like oh are you a ho like are you a bitch I don't think I don't think I'm a bitch and we looked at this we're like what the fuck you talk about

a nigga man who the fuck you talk to you You got something to do you got something to say right you can say it's right now like you walking around like you about to do him something Nick what you're like what you're on that's how I feel a thousand percent of time don't call me complaining about her and like talking shit I'm gonna bust your ass Yeah Vice versa same here because like I'm like I'm on I'm on some Omarosa I'm gonna show you the test he's still trying to say sorry I'm like that was a joke that was a joke I know but like and maybe I'm just too I don't know that kind of stuff you're You are actually more resilient in this than I ever thought that you were.

Yeah, because I'd be sensitive about this stuff that shit. I think what people don't realize is I've been, I was so highly attacked during those Bachelorette stuff. And then you remember the Chris Harrison, it brought it all back. Like, I'm so used to people coming at me that I don't know, maybe I just have like a switch that detaches. But I do care, like I said, in this particular case, if it continues because it's just so not what I stand for and I represent.

And it would be disappointing because, as we've said, and I don't want to keep being redundant. We just have to be able to have honest conversations about people, not just in politicians, people we admire, period, in all industries. And isn't that what we're supposed to be doing on higher learning? But I'm not telling you you have to agree,

but we got to be able to have the conversation. That's why I don't get mad. Like, when I call Risi, I was like, I'm not mad that you disagree. There's no, like, there's no. Yeah, Risi had a, we mean Risa had a good conversation. Yeah, very cordial.

I disagree with a lot of it. That's why when you said, when you asked me the question, I'm like, I understand where they're saying. That's why I'm not, I'm not mad at you. I'm not mad. I'm quite an understanding person, actually. I think so. I agree. All right.

Donnie, what are you going to talk? What are you going to choose? What are you going to? Well, let's see. This is a topic that Rachel is not aware of. So don't get mad. But the 2026 XXL freshman class was just released. Oh, Lord.

Am I going to have to name the people on the cover again? We're not going to do this. Yeah, the X-X-L freshman class. What we're going to do now is we have Jade over here, and I am going to name someone, and it's Rach versus Jade. It's Auntie Rach. Oh, no.

It's Auntie Rachette. It's Auntie Rachette versus Baby Jade, okay? Now, explain to the people like... The double X... These are very up and coming, so it's not like I'm... Hold on, hold on. I'm gonna be, this one I'm gonna tell you out right now. Yo, if I gotta explain to you the double Excel freshman list,

this ain't the podcast for you, man. That's not true. This isn't a hot podcast. I know, man, but Donnie, do you know what the double excel freshman list is? Of course he does. Just like I know what it is. Brownie knows what it is. Yeah. I feel like anybody that's listening to our podcast and know,

but okay, in case you don't know, you white-ass motherfucker, the double Excel for almost like 30 years now, I don't think it's been 30 years but probably like the mid-2000s or whatever they do a freshman list it's literally 10 in 10 years I don't think it's 10. It says the cover marks the 10th anniversary of the

landmark maybe that's not it it says landmark 2016 but maybe 2016 was just a bigger year maybe it is maybe it was just that that was just a big year because they can't be no fucking 10 years because while A was on that motherfucker okay so I think it was like 2007

maybe yeah it's like And you know, price of the 12 years. It's like at least got to be the mid to late 2000. They've been doing this. Shout out to Vanessa Saddam. Oh, who was on the 2000s? Okay.

Yeah, that was a big class. So shout out to Vanessa Sadden. Oh, well, oh. Huh. Sin a win didn't make it. That's an interesting omission. Maybe she made it last year. I don't know.

Anyway. Who? There's a lady she rap. She's from one. She's fucked with Rob. She's from Oregon. She's cold. What's her name?

You're talking about when? Is it when? The white girl? Yeah. When? When? When? She's cold.

She cold. She's cold. But there's a lot of black women that's cold. She's cold. She's cold. She's cold. Okay. Like, give me some black women that's cold because we can't do it that way.

What's the, what's the, oh. Like, give me some. That a new up and that aren't on the freshman list? Yeah. Who's the, oh, who's the black woman that got the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, man. Man. Maulao? .

Huh? What's her name? No, it's not Montaleo. Monolayo. He said barbecue and I was thinking about, you know, everything, that one? The one where she was like, that's what I'm talking about. Like white people to the back? Yeah, white people to the back.

Yeah, that's right. Okay, so look, Montaleo cold. We're not putting. She is. She's versatile. She's versatile. She should have done on here. Okay, look.

But she's, she's been doing it. Okay. So look, but you never know when you're going to make the freshman anymore. Okay, so here's the deal. I'm going to call out a name, Rach, first to see where the not Rache knows and then I'm going to go to Jade

to see what I know Jade knows the list Jay just let you guys know Jade is a rapper okay all right Larisi Jay yes

let me see what they look like Slayer No no oh Luriz is like 14 right he's young yeah like he's super young

but he's really talented Yeah no I know of him I'm looking at the picture Sosa Camo Oh, well, you don't know. I don't know. No. No.

Trap Dickie. Sounds familiar. Yes. Trap Dickie, I know. Belly Gane Cushington. No. No. Okay.

Chris Patrick. No. That's a rapper? Babyface E. No. Oh. No. Oh.

Okay. Y. Oh my God. That's probably the most popular one. YK. You don't know who that is? No. She said,

When me. Get a bag. I'm fucking with her. I'm fucking with all of y'all. This is not this. She's featured on a lot of, like, take me through it. Take me through. Oh.

Oh, okay. I love that record. I like that type of energy. She featured on that. Okay. So you know her. That's probably the biggest one out now. Okay.

Jay? Yes. Okay. Scrilla. Scrilla? Sorry, I was thinking Scrillix. Scrilla? No.

I don't think so. No. No. Yes. You know Trim? Yeah. She's the girl. I can't remember her songs, but she, they're comparing her to Nikki Minaj that she sounds like.

Trim? Nicky, yes. Shout out to Trim, man. Miles Minnick. Nope. No. No. Hurricane wisdom.

No. No. I'm not an auntie because she don't know none of these people either. So I will say this about the freshman list is, so let's, the freshman list is still something I look forward to every time it drops because I'm going to listen to these people's music. Like this is still awesome promotion. The freshman list obviously doesn't guarantee that you're about to become like a huge star. Mm-hmm. Like, because there have been people that have been.

on the freshman list and, you know, we've known them even before they made the list. They got on the list. You know, there's so much stuff. But it does guarantee still with me, still with me right now, the freshman list guarantees that I'm going to go listen to some of your music.

And if there's like a freshman playlist or something, I'm going to let all of this spend to see what I like. What's the category? Because I'm looking at it from last year and Ian was on it. Ian. And Jello was on it.

Yeah. Jello. Yeah. But compared to like Samarison or 1900 rug rap These comments These comments been going crazy These comments be going crazy I don't know

Jade what do you think about it Does it still as a Gen Z or does it hold weight to you Do y'all pay attention to that? Does it like put you on? I think it definitely held more weight In the 2010s I feel like as an artist being a part of it it's still a great opportunity.

It's a lot of exposure, especially if, like, you haven't already been known. But I do think that it was more of a, like, a cultural, like, moment back in the 2010s than it is now. Yeah. I think, I also think, you know, it's just the music's changing. The scene is changing, you know, so it's just, I think it is more of a digital thing now

than it was back then. I feel like there was more of an impact for the artists. Well, I think the major thing that's here is it used to be to a large degree that by time you made the freshman list, you had like a major label behind you. Yeah. You had a push coming from someone. You had a cosine coming from because of the way streaming works now, and I don't know the situations of none of these people, but a lot of these artists are probably getting it

out the mud a little bit more. They haven't had like any major type of push yet. I feel like this class specifically, I agree with that because I feel like 2025 XL, uh, double XL freshman list had people who had a lot of backing behind them. Yeah. Um, Ray Lange and Cushington. I actually know what that is by the way. This year, I feel like majority, majority of these artists are just have a lot of

virality to them. And I don't think they necessarily have a ton of backing behind them yet. That's interesting. Because that can lead into our Lizzo conversation. But before I recognized the 2016 list because they were like, this is the 10th anniversary of like the big 2016 one. So I looked up. This is who was on the list in 2016. Okay.

21 Savage. Anderson Pack. Dave East. Denzel Curry. Designer. Wow. G. Herbo. Wow.

Kodak Black. little dicky little Uzi and little Yachty that is that is that's why they reference it but look

but if you go back and look at the situations that was surrounding that like Atlanta was going so crazy at that point like that's a crazy fucking freshman class yeah

that's a crazy fucking freshman class no doubt about it that's a crazy freshman class all right Donnie get us into something more serious now because we've since we got to come back to the bullshit

yeah okay more serious as in you want to talk about Jay Williams or no, no, let's talk about Lizzo. Let's talk about Lizzo, I guess. Yeah, that goes about, oh, okay. Yeah, her new album, bitch debuted to,

I'm sure to her very disappointing and low sales. It failed to make the Billboard 200 chart. The album sold roughly 2,600 copies in his first week and saw significantly lower streaming numbers compared to her previous releases. Her last release, the

22 album special, hit number two on Billboard 200 and debuted with approximately least 69,000 total units sold. So a big drop for Lizzo. Why are you laughing? I'm not laughing. There's no laughing.

I'm not laughing. Seriously, I'm not laughing. I'm having no problems with Lizzo. I do wonder something about Lizzo, though. What? I wonder if people ever loved Lizzo or if they were just tolerating her. People definitely loved Lizzo. I don't know.

Why do you say that? Because I think two things. One, Lizzo definitely had music that people loved. She definitely had music that people really fuck with. Y'all like the Minnesota Viking song and all of that shit. Yeah. Like Lizzo definitely had records that people liked, right? But I do think that part of Lizzo's charm and Lizzo's deal

was that people were embracing Lizzo. And they felt good about embracing Lizzo, right? They felt good about embracing what Lizzo represented in many different ways. Lewis also had an interesting story. I think that the moment that people didn't feel good about it anymore, they jumped off of the bandwagon with the whole thing from a couple of years ago. Now, everybody might say that's what people do. When they no longer feel good about listening to you or supporting you,

they jump off the bandwagon. That's not true. I can name you a plethora of artists right now that people don't feel good about supporting, but the music and the artistry has just grabbed them and put them in their strangle hole to where they're actually willing to be a little bit shitty

to access the thing that they love. Name one. Chris Brown. Okay? Like it is like Arkell. There's so many... No, Chris Brown was a good example. Like you can't, Chris up there, you go,

I love it. And you go, what does this mean? Well, like, what does that mean? Chris start dancing. You go, shit. Name a woman. good question um because i'm not trying to make this gender wars no no no no no that's actually a phenomenal question number one i can't think of very many women who have acted this poorly

um like just as men do that like there's not as many examples right and that's part of it's like a different standard if a man did this well meg no you can say meg right meg has what a lawsuit you meg has uh i can't believe you did this you well i guess i'm on a role i'm on a lot trying to get kids off the aisle. But it's the truth. Meg has a lawsuit. If you guys don't remember what the lawsuit is, someone sued Meg and they allege that Meg,

uh, all kinds of stuff, one of her assistants or photographers, but also there's an allegation that he was locked in a car and made to watch Meg and a woman have sex, which, you know, if that had been a man watching someone like,

we're going crazy. So like Meg, but that, I mean, I don't know why I'm human and hard. That's a good example. But what I'm saying, saying is they love her for real.

Yeah, that's the point. To your point, that's a woman who has certain allegations, and her fans still support her ride hard for her. She gets opportunities, all the stuff. Right. Lizzo's thing, this tells me,

they wasn't fucking with Lizzo as much. Like, this thing came out and they went, they looked at Lizzo and they went, hey, big black lady, not from you. I'm sick. I'm just, I don't want, like, not from you. You have to be completely energetically pure.

I'm not saying that any of this, I'm not indicting this. I'm just saying for her to get to this point where we're talking 2,600 copies, like that's a flat line right there. I think it's a couple of things. One, I wonder if Meg had not gone through what she did with Torrey Lanes.

I wonder if people might have perceived the other thing in a different way. That's just a thought. But Meg is not the same artist. as Lizzo in the sense of, I know who Meg is and I know what I'm getting from her. She's clearly defined. I'm a little confused on who Lizzo is.

And Jade's nodding her head. When Lizzo, Lizzo had been out, like Lizzo used to rap, sing, flute playing. When she really hit her stride in her popularity, it was like 2019. And it was like, pop. I'm like, that's literally.

If I'm looking at the buildup to this album, I'm seeing her sing. I'm seeing an alternative take. I'm seeing her rap. I'm seeing her pop out at Coachella during people's sets, you know, twerking, play in the flute, doing her thing. And it's like, at where I didn't know what to expect with this album. And even at the same time she was doing all of that, I felt like I didn't even realize she had an album coming out at the same time. Like I feel like some of it was all lost. And I saw Isaac Hayes put something up where he said that the person who was running,

is it Atlantic her music company, the company, the person who was running it, the person who recruited her, all of that, they're gone. They're not there anymore. So now it's like a whole new set of people. And it's very similar to like in sports when you get a new coach. It happened to me when I was at extra when the girl woman EP. who recruited me and a new one came in, you want your person. Because if the other person that was brought in has success,

you can't say, hey, as an executive, hey, is this, I'm the person who brought this in. So I don't even know if what Isaac Hayes is saying is true is if she had the right push behind her, they might not be as into her, as motivated to market her because she's not their person. And that could be also why we didn't see so much surrounding the album. The problem with that is,

I mean, I knows more about the music business than me. He also knows more about being a Drake stand than me. He also knows more about being an Atlanta stand than me. He also knows, I'm a shout to Ike, man. Shout to Ike. But that's my guy. But I knows more about the music game to me.

He does. But I just don't feel like any other things that you're talking about would be barriers for artists who had a more robust fan base. Well, I mean, like right now, tomorrow, if fucking Olivia Raorigo changed all of her shit, she puts some shit out, that shit going crazy. Now, I'm not comparing her to Lizzo, but like what I'm saying is

like there's this is this is not Lizzo dropped and she sold 35 which a lot of people would look at as a brick for Lizzo 35 or 40 maybe they wouldn't look at that right this is Lizzo sold 2,600

albums. People don't care right now. They also say that Lizzo is a radio darling and not a streaming artist right. Olivia is a streaming artist like she got a lot of popularity from TikTok and stuff, not taking away from her talent,

also Disney, all of that, right? Like she was more in the industry and had popularity more of a longer time, I would say, than Lizzo did. Lizzo got big from the radio. People aren't listening to radio. She's not necessarily a streaming artist and doesn't have that fan base

in the same way either. Like, Jay, I've been sure you have a lot of insight on this too if you want to hop in. Yeah, Jay's, what you got. I mean, I kind of agree with what Rachel's saying. I feel like Lizzo's brand and image has always been kind of constantly evolving. But I do think the time between her getting her big breaks and the time of her getting those lawsuits from her former employees and stuff, she wasn't doing much in that time to like really perfect or secure like exactly what her brand was as an artist.

and I think that was her falling because say she was able to kind of position and also agreed. Her music is very, you're hearing it in the malls, you're hearing it on the radio. You're, she has a mainstream pop sound that I don't think will, it will gravitate everybody on a general sense, but she doesn't have a cult following. She's never had a cult following. She's always been somebody who is able to. make general music, good music for the general masses. So I feel like

her weak point was her branding. So do you have to have a cult following now? It's so important to have a cult following. I mean, the way this works is this. The way this works in any fandom anywhere. So Lizzo's last joint that had about damn time on it. So 69,000 in his first week. So I don't know why.

And that was before the situation. That was before. That was before. I mean, but look, 69,000 is, that's a hell of a number. You only have a couple of people that's going crazy now. You only have a couple of people like that's doing 15200, like 300. 69 is a big deal, but like this has, this is indicative to me of people not like just not being interested in Lizzo.

this is indicative to me of people being turned off by Lizzo. Like people see the Lizzo song, they don't stream it, they see the thing, they're not playing it. And I do think, though, that there's a part of this, to your point, I think it's a good point that you make about the tolerance that we have with women in these situations. It's the same reason why Cressette Michelle got her ass kicked forever for singing at Trump's inauguration. But it's mad niggas that ain't gone completely maga and they don't seem to give a fuck about them. Those guys might have more hits, more records. We've been with them for a long of time, but I do think that there's a different way

that we treat people based upon, like, gender. But also with this Lizo situation, Ligo, also with this Lizo situation, I really do think that when people, when that shit came out, people were like, you can't do the body positivity stuff to us. You can't do the stuff at the Laker games.

You can't do all of that stuff. When I say do the body positivity stuff to us, that's the wrong way to put that. You can't be that forward facing with it and then lead a toxic culture inside of what you control. I really do feel like people were like there was a betrayal there and they were like, oh, it's easy to get rid of her. I don't know if it's going to be like that permanently, but I just think that people not fucking will is like that no more because that shit was like, nah. And part of it is, when I say tolerated, I think part of it does come back to the fact that she was a larger woman. They're like, we feel like we're doing the right thing by celebrating Lizzo,

by celebrating this, by celebrating. We feel like we're being right. We feel like we're being woke. We feel like we're responding to Lizzo's body type in a way. We're embracing it, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, oh, you're not on that? We're out. Yeah.

There's a larger conversation to be had about the body positivity movement as well. What is, that it doesn't exist anymore? That, that, and I wonder for the long term how corrosive this is, man, Eli Lilly destroyed the body positivity movement. A lot of people that were telling people rightfully so, rightfully so, to be comfortable in your own bodies. Yeah. That we were beautiful at any size, that we were gorgeous and sexy at any size.

Obviously, as a guy that's dealt with my way, people were preaching that. And man, when that drug hit the market, they pricked their skin and dropped them 14 sizes. Yeah, I mean, it really does show that nobody really believed it. That's really what? Like, nobody really wanted it. I think it's still people holding on. I would love to talk to somebody from there, from the body. We've had guests before.

But I just have seen so many stalwarts from that. they look different. And I'm not judging. I'm just talking about a movement that existed. And now you're seeing the complete opposite. And especially now that it's all so accessible. And I know people take it for different reasons. I'm not saying people all take it for the sole purpose of looking a certain way.

There are health benefits absolutely tied to it. But it is an interesting conversation to have coming right off body positive. and seeing the pendulum swing the complete opposite way, as things always do. And I'm sure it'll swing right back eventually. Yeah. So with Lizzo, I wonder if, if... But she lost weight.

She did? Mm-hmm. This is what I'm saying. People don't know. The video for her first song of this album is her with a version of her old self, like her old body. She's singing to it. Oh, yeah.

lost mad fucking weight. Yeah. What a pretty lady. Always been pretty. Okay, well, we'll see what happens. I mean, to your point, she is kind of a cross-culture star, so there might be some, I mean, but $2,600.

Then now we're going to see, now we're going to see if any of these joints bang. Have y'all listened to this? No. I've heard the, I mean, bitch. You listen to YG, listen at you. You watched, did his album? What did his album do?

How was Wajee's shit sounding? I ever listen to it. It's, I would say, I appreciate the storytelling. That's what you do. And I think this is one of those albums that came very much from the heart, telling a lot of honest, true stories. You don't like it. I know when y'all niggas just up there talking.

You like, you like, you, like you, you started talking about, I didn't like all the songs, but. You started talking about a story. How it came from the heart Sometimes albums aren't just for that You're not fucking with it Every time you ask somebody Whether or not they like some shit

And they go Man this is one of the ones I'm really gonna have to sit with And spend like 10 of things You didn't like it Like that's cool too All right I want to see what you think about this

Hey Donnie J Williams At the draft Did you see this Rach? I did So we saw some Where were you? You got some diamond earrings I did I know

You got some diamond earrings Hey, that mustache was elite. How old were hit that mustache? Don't worry about it. I was saying the mustache. It wasn't elite stash. I'd never seen a 20-year-old with a stash like that. Hey, where were you?

I was hanging out with my family. I was having a good time. You didn't want to come? I knew I was going to be a lottery pick, so I just decided just to hang out. I forgot 13 is lottery. Yeah. Hey, why is such a big ovation for you? Was there something?

Chicago, I don't know. You know, most of the people that went to Duke are from New Jersey, New York. Well, they also didn't see the future coming, so they were cheering kind of preempt. Sorry, I apologize. Wow. The guy was a unbelievable talent. He was okay in college. He was okay.

He was okay. And his career trajectory would have been a lot different if he didn't like photosites. Yes. Yes, that's on record. I wrote a book about it. I try to beat everybody to the punch. I guess everybody that goes to Duke isn't that smart. Wait, he wrote a book about it.

I'm agreeing with him. If you can't be that part of you write a book. But anyway. So just to let y'all know, we're not talking about like marrying a wrong person or we're not talking about like, you know, a basketball technique or something else type of mistake. Jay Williams was in a horrific motorcycle accident. He almost had to have his leg ampit.

He's like he has like a drop leg now. He tried to come back. The fact that Jay is walking around right now is a fucking miracle by a lot in a lot of regards, right? Man, Jay, Jay, you know how fuck with you. You know, you'd be going crazy sometimes, but you know how fuck with you. You should have bust his fucking ass. That's just not Jay. Not, not, not in, obviously not in the physical.

you should have bust his fucking ass and Richard Jefferson got shit we could bust his ass about all right there's stuff we could say there's stuff that would have been said on that that's too far dog I mean

I'm not I'm not one for the I'm not the faint of heart but like when we're in the drive session nigga you kicking off the drive session nigga we're not just sitting talking you want to get I got to put the wheel in your back and crank that motherfucker fucker.

Jay dealt with it. I guess the way you deal with it when you're like a nice, upstanding emotionally regulated man. You're talking about a nearly life ending accident that robbed me. I would have been one of the best guards of my

generation. Jay got to go through that, hit that from that nigger. Jay, bust his ass. Hey, Jay. Karen, Karen, I love you, Karen. I love you, Karen. I love you, Karen. I love you, Karen Kinney. Tell Jay, Van said, with Bus Richard's ass.

The thing with Richard is he's such a troll in these situations. Like whether it's live, whether at the draft like we just saw, whether it's him on ESPN, whether it's on social media, he does it a lot on TikTok. This is so his personality. And I'm actually surprised more people don't come at him for some of the trolling. I think a lot of times, and that's probably what Jay was thinking too, people just let it slide because it's like, oh, that's Richard.

but this one was so dark. Like Richard couldn't even get everybody to like laugh or make light of it because it was such a heavy situation. I mean, not only was the accident horrific and it changed the entire trajectory of his life. Like he's, Jay has written a memoir where he talked about being addicted to painkillers because of the situation. I mean, there was the story of resilience from Jay Williams in all of this. He talked about it on some podcast after this happened, and he said that the reason he responded

that way is because he didn't want the situation to be about him. He wanted it to be about the draft, and what he was most annoyed about is these young men, their lives are changing completely tonight, and now people are, this is becoming a storyline, and you're focused on me, and it's for the wrong reasons. And so he said he was trying to, again, super professional. I'm like you. I don't know if I would have handled it the same way, especially because Rick, this is what Richard does, so I would have just gone back at him.

But the fact that he was able to keep his composure of something that I'm sure he, even though he's moved past it, how did you not think about this? And for Richard to just throw it in your face like that, that's really, really outstanding that he was able to put the young man above it all and keep it moving. Anything, any of the comebacks that I would have came off the top of the dome with to Richard Jefferson would have been super non-PC and inappropriate. Well, his wasn't PC.

Especially during Pride Month. So like a lot of like a lot of the stuff that I would have so I'm not even saying I would have been like a great guy about it. But like you weighed them waters man. Like you got a that's I don't.

I'm not mad on behalf of Jay but that's the kind of shit to where if you don't If you don't bust his ass, he's going to come back again. He's going to double back. When I was at TMZ... He might not with this one, because this is bad. When I was at TMZ, once again, I don't know why I keep doing shout-outs to Harvey, man.

Maybe I'm looking back at my TMZ. The further I get away from it, the more I'm like, you know, it was a terrible place. Not really. I loved it there. I don't miss it, but, like, it was fun. Like, I don't know what the fuck I'll tell you out. It was fun. The shit was fun.

I don't know it was fun there. Fucking misfits, running around, rip up. and running around the town and all this stuff, whatever. But Harvey teed me up for a joke when I first got there. The joke killed. And then after that, I was walking out, a guy named Rick Mitchell. Rick goes, hey, that's a tough room in there. I was like, what, what you mean?

He was like, because literally my first time on the show, he was like, that's a viper pit in there. Like inside of that room, it's a viper pit. He was like, you know, that's a good joke. but also when you're in there, you got to stand your ground. And so I was like, oh, shit. Somebody popped shit at me on the TMZ cameras. I got to get busy. And that's the way you keep people off you by getting on their ass.

And Jay should have just a shot across the bow at Richard Jefferson. Just a shot across the bow playing that man like that. That's not funny. Anyway, all right, too much. Donnie, what else we got? Y'all want to talk about ASAP and his recent concert in Arizona There's a couple clips Some clips have gone viral

People were saying that he was being disrespectful to his wife Let's play both clips back to back I heard about how Venus got some beautiful ass women out here, bro Skostel, Phoenix, all this shit They was just like That's what all the pretty ladies in America They're in fucking Arizona, babe Thank God

Thank God y'all y'all didn't know me when I was seen me Because I would fuck the shit out of you It was pretty, you know? Baby girl Oh, she's fine As much. No. I don't see the big deal.

He's a big. He's a rapper. I just got struck by you big. Let's make this shit. That's enough. Let's say you're in the relationship. Are you mad at any of that? No.

I don't see the big deal. I don't see. He's a rock star. He's a rapper. He's a rapper. Oh, Jay's got a different fucking opinion. Here go. Go.

What is the problem with that? What is the problem with that? It's not, he's literally talking. He's a rock star. He's talking to thousands of people, not one-on-one. I get it. But selfishly, if I was in that, I would, I would feel a type of way, but I get it. I think that there could be two truths.

I think you could understand he's a rock star. That's what he does. Yeah. But, I mean, if I'm Rihanna, I'm going to be like, ugh, I'm going to give a eye roll. But he acknowledged that he's not even single. He said, when I was single, this is what I would have done. He said he had single. You said not even single.

No, he said if I was single, but it's like, did he have done? Y'all best you know me when I didn't single. Listen, here's a deal though. He's performing, right? Yes, and that's why I said, I can understand he's doing his job as an artist, as a rock star. And obviously he is a sex symbol to a lot of.

Sex. Yeah, penis. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. If Rihanna or anyone did a movie, and she had to do a love scene with a guy. Do you think it would be appropriate for Aesab Rocky to be offended

by her doing a love scene with the guy in the movie? No, but I think that's... I would consider that different just because these are comments... Like, it wasn't like those are lyrics from his song. That's just, that's something that he just wants to say, just to say it. He's performing.

He's being a bigger version of it. He's performing. It's the same thing. And I get it. He's performing. He's being a bigger version of himself to be bombastic himself. 100%.

100%. I get it. That doesn't, but yeah, I mean, if I was Rihanna, I'd still, I'd still, I'd roll to Rihanna. Guess I could date a rock star. They're a rapper. It doesn't bother me. I like that type of shit. But I mean, that's part of the reason he is who he is, to your point, he is a sex symbol.

In addition to being a rapper, one of y'all said it. So, like, girls come to his shows. He wants to continue to sell tickets and albums and have the attention and people buy his, his products or whatever it is that he's selling because I think he has a line or whatever. two, in conjunction with someone, it's all a part of the character. I would feel totally different if you showed me a clip at a club and he's not on stage

and he's in a section and you overhear him saying this to someone. That's a one-on-one interaction. Like from the stage, I fully expect it. I might even encourage it. Because I'm the one who gets to go home with you at night. I'm going to be real. I feel in this situation a lot of sympathy

for ASAP because a lot of people tell me I look like ASAP. Is it time to take another break? Like physically, a lot of people say that we look similar. That you're black? No, a lot of people say like cheekbones. A lot of people say like skin tone, jawline, a lot of people say, like I've been walking places before. Like, I'm like,

I'll just aside. Seriously, I look at me crazy, but like I'm being serious right now and I expect you guys to support. I was walking at Beverly Center one time. So I'm like, comes up to me. It was like, oh, we're fucking problems. I'm a fucking problem. I was like, what? You do that? That's your song. Like, you do fucking problems. I was like, oh, I don't do that. But I know, I see how you could think that I look like ASAP. I told them that. I was like, I see how you think that I could look like it. Because a lot of people tell me that. I don't even know how to respond to them. Donnie? Don't even know how to respond. Why don't

you ask Rihanna if she thinks that you look like That's, first of all, you don't think it's problematic for me to ask a lady. If you favor him, say, hey, a lot, just like you're saying here, a lot of people tell me that I favor him. Do you think so? So, because you know him. Shout out to Riri, by the way. Shout out to Riri, by the way. Shout out to Riri.

That's a logical question. That's the homie. But like it. Which is why I'm telling you to ask her. But you think that you think is, so you think it's appropriate for me to hit her and be like, yo, a lot of people say I look like your man. Do you think so? I think that's a fucking violation. Well, it's the same way it's a violation for you to get on this podcast microphone

and tell people that, first off, that you were at the Beverly Center because that's a fucking lie. And two, that people came, that people come to you and tell you that you look like ASAP. A lot of people say it. Just right now, give me a side by side. Take off the glasses. Take off the hat so they can really, they can really sit. Can we not?

Can we? You can take off the glasses at least. Like, you know, like this is... Don't smile. Now, do that slap by side. I feel like I look. I feel like we favor. We'll see where the people think.

And if they're negative, just know that we're living in negative times. I favor Rihanna more than you favor. Let's see about that. I mean, but you look, but you, but you look like every black lady, though. No, I don't. You look like a lot of different black.

black ladies. Do you think that? You look like, nigger, you could be Robin. Robin Givens for sure. You could be Rihanna. You could get, you got a little Gabrielle union in there. You got a little Regina Hall in there. All compliments. I'll take all of these things. But you like these are pretty black ladies and just like ASAP is a model type looking nigger and I also am that same thing. So it's the same thing is Van ASAP, Tyson Beckford type situation. Those are the standards. All right. What else? What else should we do?

Should we just check in on Donald Trump? He's going crazy. Let's check in on him. Yeah, let's do with it. He abruptly canceled what was a planned signing ceremony for a major bipartisan housing bill just hours before it was supposed to happen. The legislation known as the 21st century Road to Housing Act passed Congress with overwhelming bipartisan support.

And it aims to boost housing supply per large institutional investors from buying single family homes. And it will lower or would lower housing costs. But before the signing ceremony happened, he announced that he will not sign the bill until Congress first passes the Save America Act, which we have talked about.

It's a measure that would require stricter voter ID and proof of citizenship requirements for federal elections. Perfect example of what the report Republican Party hath brought and hath made. And it's so interesting to see so many different members of the GOP finally running out of patience

with their emperor. Are they? As he continues to lose clothes, they are. They are. Do you know why? Why? Because they were I mean, you know what drafting is, right? When you're in somebody's draft, you're right?

You track. You're a track running behind somebody and you're in their draft. You're in their, what do you call it? You're in their wind behind them. They're creating a break in the wind and you're gaining speed. What is that called? Is that called drafting? What is that?

I'm not aware of that. Whatever the fuck it is. It's like these people were running behind Trump because Trump, the trail of Trump, made it easier for them to move ahead of more talented politicians. Politicians that have better ideas, politicians that have more serious ideas. Now what's happening with Donald Trump is he's fucking losing his mind. Donald Trump is what you got going on. You're okay?

I have something. That's very special. Donald Trump is now obsessed with ballrooms and arches and waiting pools. Grandpa is getting crotchety. And he doesn't even have the energy anymore to bullshit the way that he used to. Trump don't have his fastball anymore. So now what he does has to be very direct. like it's super direct.

And it's like you can't hide it. You can't really obfuscate it anymore. Some will try. But in this situation, this is a bipartisan housing bill. This is Elizabeth Warren and Tim Scott. When the last time them motherfuckers was, they probably talk all the time. What the fuck am I talking about? They'd probably be going to lunch, going to R.Bs, chilling, like all kinds of shit.

I don't know what the fuck going on. I don't know how they do it in D.C. But they do this bill to address housing. This is a win that both sides are going to spend. The Democrats are going to go, we did something about housing. The Republicans are going to go, hey, we can legislate. We did something about housing. Donald Trump put his political power in front of all of that.

Donald Trump said, yo, I might be a lame duck in November. My political career might be effectively over in November. And because you guys are not voting with me on that, which they don't even have the votes, they need fucking 60 votes on that shit. unless you get rid of filibuster, which they do not want to do because you guys can't make that happen. Americans

are not going to get housing relief that they need. Now, a lot of this bill is not exactly housing relief. It has to do with all kinds of different stuff that would stop people from doing predatory housing things. Right, right, right. So we would hope that it would result in

in housing relief. He doesn't care about that. He puts himself in front of the people and there's no way around it. we are getting a fucking mix tape. Damn, son. Where'd you find that? We're getting a mixtape of Trump's greatest hits of not giving a fuck about people.

Doesn't really think about people. Gasoline prices. Putting a war before people. We're getting it. There's no way to spin it right now. The ones that are going to try, the ones that are going to try at this point are just the deep.

is gooey as sloppy as dick suckers. That's it. You just had to get that in there. Listen, I mean... I know you said that... How did you phrase it at the beginning? Not the drafting part, but when you were talking about how... I feel like drafting is what I was trying to say, by the way.

That's what you said. But when you were talking about how... I don't remember how you said it, so cut that part out. But here's the thing. This is a bipartisan bill, like you said. It's in front of Trump. Trump is now saying it was all geared up ready to go. And then he's like, you know what?

That bill, that act that y'all won't pass, like I'm throwing a temper tantrum and I'm putting my foot down and y'all better pass this act. So it's basically a non-issue, right? Because we know that voter fraud is not a real thing. A non-issue you're going to put in front of an actual issue that could help Americans, where Americans are suffering. But this is the president who said inflation is great. He thinks the war is great. and he doesn't care about affordability, not a real thing to him.

So this all makes sense, right? This is in line with, I guess, prior hits, some of his greatest hits, if you're going to say that he had a mixtape. But the reason I could see if, like, well, it's not going to pass the Senate, right? They're not going to do get rid of the Senate. The say that.

They're not going to do get rid of the filibustering. It's like it's never going to happen. So maybe this bill will never happen either. But we did see something happen where he threw a temper tantrum behind a closing. doors also this week with the Senate because they wouldn't pass the war powers resolution like when they took the restrictions off yeah and they took them off right just when we were applauding them for holding him accountable and saying no we're going to actually assert the power we have to

stop you from into from from contributing more to this war that you did on your own without our authority we're going to stop you so we're applauding them for actually having a backbone and then behind closed doors at a lunch, he throws a temper tantrum and they say, okay, we're going to take those restrictions off and we're going to give you what you want. So it's hard to say, I mean, like, they could with SAVE Act, but the things that they have to do in the Senate, that's just never going to happen. It's not going to, it's so that's, I don't know what's going to happen with the bill because the SAVE Act just is not going to go through at the moment. I don't see anything changing within the Senate. But I can't give Republicans credit because they folded.

Oh, I'm not looking to give them credit. The war powers resolution, that stuff is actually just a candy for the baby. Yeah, but at least they put their foot down for a second. Yeah, now what they're saying is they're trying to deal with baby Huey and hope that they can get him to sign the housing deal by caving a little bit on the war powers. I mean, Cassidy and Trump were in their lobbing insults at one another. Yeah, it's... But like, what are you got?

Well, I was just going to say this is how you know it's just Trump's ego because what they're trying to pass isn't going to require any money, right? It's not costing them anything. It would be a win. Like you already said, the Democrats will say it's a win for this reason. The Republicans will say it's a win for this reason. To be honest, the Republicans need a win going into the midterms. And this could be something that could be beneficial to the Republicans in general, something they can hang their hat on. But Trump does not care. He doesn't care. We know about the people. He doesn't care about the party, he only cares about himself, and his ego is getting in the way of even doing something that could be beneficial to him in the midterms, something that they could hang their hat on,

like I said, or brag about. Doesn't even care with that. I think it's even more than his ego. You're right, it is ego. You're right. But I think it's even more than his ego. I think Donald Trump is becoming increasingly, he always has been, but he's becoming increasingly both aloof to people's needs, right? Or aloof to even giving lip service to his base. That part. Okay. And more tense and quick tempered with the people around him because I think that there's

something existential happening. I think that for whatever reason, Donald Trump is in the middle of some existential crisis. he was walking down this thing to address, he was walking down on the way of the car, the sidewalk on the side of the White House, whatever, to address to me, he was winded. Like he couldn't get his shit together. Like he's,

he's falling asleep everywhere. Like he's building monuments to himself. He's trying to get Dulles Airport named after him. A lot of these things, I'll just tell you guys, a lot of these things are things that people never get to see. You never get to see the airport named after you. You never get to see the big arch in your name.

You never get to see those things. He's rushing and trying to get them done. And I'm telling you, even right now, if he loses power in November, he loses the ability to continue to push through stuff like this and get this stuff done and get all of this stuff done. And he doesn't feel like it's going to happen. I really do think right now that Donald Trump is in the middle of something. And part of this is him raging against the dying of the light. I'm being totally real with you.

Like him raging against the dying of the light. Well, I'm not going to say anything against that. Not a thing. Not a thing. Yeah, well, I guess we'll see where this one goes. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Because a lot of this stuff, people are talking and they're going like, look,

the president is actually he's actually more unhinged than even before. It feels that way though. You used to be able to, even in the first term, they used to be able to manage him and pull him back from some of his worst decisions. Now they keep trying to placate him

to work with him and he is just fucking him. He doesn't care. He cares about what people think this is like the last gasp of Trumpism. Yeah. I mean, he's still lying. Like, he's always going to lie. And some of it I think that the lying is like,

I actually think he believes these lies. Like in his mind, he's like, no, this is exactly why this thing happened. But a lot of it too is he's not lying. He's just saying it out loud. No, I think this is great. No, I don't care about this. No, this is exactly what I want to do. And that speaks to the unhinged part of it where they can't control him anymore.

I think he's just like, I'm going to say whatever I want to say. And y'all clean it up. All right. We're going to end on something sort of serious. I saw Ben Crump posted this. New CDC data shows young black men in America are dying by suicide at historic rates with black males age 16 to 19, now dying by suicide at a higher rate than their white peers for the first time since the federal government began tracking the data. Overall, suicide deaths among black Americans increase 53% between 2014 to 2024. a rate of increase more than 10 times faster than that of white Americans.

The crisis is most severe among black men's ages 20 to 24, whose suicide death rate reached 31.9 deaths per 100,000 people, the highest amongst any black age group. Mental health experts say factors, including unreleased trauma, racism, economic issues, social isolation, and the lack of culturally competent mental health care. probably some stigmatization in there around mental health as well that we continue to try to address. Experts also point to social media as a contributing factor saying constant exposure to violence, trauma, and unrealistic comparisons. Intensify feelings of hopelessness amongst young black men. Donnie, you are a husband and a father.

What did you think when you read this? It's disturbing. I think, I mean, I always have, since I've been a father, I've had an existential dread about him growing up and him getting to the stage where he is no longer under my watch and he's out and free into the world. But this would actually, like this is something that parents actively go through because these ages are young, these are young men who are taking their lives. So that brings that threat, I think, even closer to the present. And I mean, I honestly, I don't know, because you do what you can. You do the best that you can. I'm doing the best that I can now to help him be a decent toddler

and to help him grow into a decent boy and have that, like, grow into a decent man. And I know that in a lot of these cases, the parents who are dealing with, the impact of their child or their children taking their own lives did the best that they could. And this was something that still ended up happening. So I'm like struggling to grasp with all of these things as a young parent. And it just, it adds to the anxiety, but it also adds to, I think, my, to be the best parent that I possibly can, knowing that a lot of stuff is going to be out of my control. But, yeah, like, first thing that comes to mind when I read this is disturbing.

And it's disturbing in, like, a very, very, very present sense. Rachel, what about you? I saw this and I thought that this is devastating. And it's devastating for so many reasons. obviously not a black man. I don't have brothers, have fathers, I have uncles, I have cousins, I have friends, I have nephews.

And, you know, I, you can go through, like, certain things, right? Like, you can talk about, I'm sure, and even in reading off, as I was reading this off, it's like you can look at the compounding weight of unaddressed collective pain, I guess you can say racial, social, economic. I mean, just last week, I'm in tears, right? And I'm crying over the loss of, well, it was a compounding number of things.

I'm crying over the loss of a one-year-old child that was shot black. We're talking about Carmelo Anthony and see it however way you see it, it's still the loss of someone's future, things that could have been different, the way they were handled, the way he was, the situation could be misunderstood, the way he was represented. And even you talking about, which again brought me to tears, was the realization that the laws in place or the defense in place, it doesn't really consider you because it's not your ground. And as millennials and Gen X, we grew up at a time. where not saying these things did not exist,

but there was also more of a hopeful conversation. Like, I'll just say the American dream, not saying that I necessarily believe in that, but just like things to look forward to, things to grab, like things that felt like they were in your reach. This age group that they're particularly talking about 20 to 24, I don't know if they've grown up or seen the same things in the way that we did.

Again, I'm not saying those things did not exist. It's just the way that they've grown up. What they're able to access with social media, obviously that's a huge factor. But the way things might seem bigger or heavier on them because they are privy to more things and more connected in ways that we were more isolated with our communities and had more of a closeness that they don't necessarily have with this age group 20 to 24, this Gen Z. It's, again, it's just so. sad and I don't think that we're talking enough about it.

And when I saw it, I wasn't shocked by it. I was just really saddened by it because even when I talk about Cohen, when I talk about Carmelo, when we talk about some of these stories that we continue tragedies, I should say, that we continue to talk about on the podcast, the running theme of it, or the common denominator, I should say, with it is that it does not feel like your life is valued as a black person. and I'll say black men because that's what we're talking about. So if you don't feel valued and you aren't as connected and don't have the closeness that we had growing up because certain things didn't exist in society that are more isolating,

of course these young black men are subjected to things in a lot heavier way. And then when I add on to that, okay, this is how they're feeling. Well, what do you do to help them? I think that there's an access gap. They don't have necessarily the access of the therapy or the counseling or some that other maybe demographics have more access to. So it's just like a really, it's a really heavy thought because there's so many things that contribute to the loss of black men in this society, systemically, the environment, all of it. And now suicide you're adding to it. It's so sad.

So, of course, you know the story with Nick and the shotgun, right? We've talked about that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But I think about that story, if you guys don't know the story, it's like one time I was laying down, very upset. I wasn't really upset. I wasn't sleeping. I hadn't slept in a long time. And like, for me, my skin was on fire.

It was very bad time. And I was like, I'm laying down in my bed and I go like, like how long can I do this? Like how long can I live this particular way? It just felt like I would never be the regular happy go lucky van again. I just thought that was gone. Like how long can I do this?

Then I started laughing. I'm like, that was a legit ideation, right? That was like legitimately. I legitimately thought about it for a second. So then like I talked to my therapist and my therapist like, shout out to Koli. She goes, okay, well you have your shotgun. Your shotgun is what you looked at.

I'm like, yeah. She's like, take this shotgun. Yeah, you can keep the shotgun. gun but she was like give all of the ammunition away to someone who you know you can trust I gave my ammunition to Nick May who is somebody that I trust somebody that that will take care of people that takes care of everyone around him they can talk a lot of shit but he's the most reliable person in this entire city Nick May so I gave my shotgun ammunition to he still has it um and I think about all of that stuff I think about that I think about that I think about

the immense amount of privilege that I had during that situation. I had a therapist to ask about. I had the wherewithal based upon the point in my life that I was at to be able to realize and recognize what was happening to me, like be able to say that was an ideation, right? And then I had a friend that I could take my shotgun ammunition to. Then I had a car to be able to get in and drive over there and take it to him. Then I had like standing and stature.

I know that I'm valuable. So many young men don't have that. So many young men is legitimately the only thing that they can turn to is the means of their own demise. It's the only thing that they're talking to. Nobody's talking about. That is why when we have conversations about male loneliness and about isolation amongst males, you have got to be more sensitive and caring. you have to.

And I say this knowing full well, actually not knowing full well. Let me say that again. I say this not knowing what it must be like to live in a society. This is to you and to you. That is always centering males, always centering what men are going through. We have to talk about how men are going like how society around men is like that. I get that. That's complete bullshit.

But this conversation is real. Yeah. And like this conversation, particularly about these young guys, that's why I say, hey, call me trash. I'll be trash. I have to talk to them because we talk a lot about life, but we never talk about living. Living happens every day, happens every second. Living is not just going to college. Living is getting up and going to the subway at your college.

And how do you feel? Living is getting up and going to the drugstore or getting up and going to the bookstore at your college and having somebody follow you around living it happens every single second and you have to do that on purpose you have to exist on purpose you have to exist with purpose and you have to know that you have purpose and you have to know that finding a purpose can be a purpose in it of itself I'm looking for my purpose is one of the most delicious thoughts that one could have I don't know what it is yet but I know that it's there and I'm looking for it. But all of that has to do with a quality of life and an understanding of how this world

orientes around you and where you fit in your family and your culture and your spot in this universe that is just very important for these young brothers to have. And it's just so much pulling at them. Young men, young women, black people, peers, so much pulling at them. I'm not militant enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not making enough money. I have an opinion.

Everybody attacks me for their opinion. I have a thought is wrong. I drops is whack. We are feasting on each other. And I know that this is coming from a podcast that exists in critique of people sometimes, but I try my best. The only thing I pray for, the only thing I pray for, I pray for my hair to come back.

But the only thing I pray for other than that is I pray that I am being compassionate. I pray for compassion. I pray for empathy. And we just got care. like we got to care because I tell you something the ones that's not harming themselves they're harming somebody else and we've been here

and we've talked about it and we've seen what happens so these numbers with the way we're just on this I'm looking at this on this shit I'm looking at all that other shit and all of this other stuff we're talking about all of these conversations we're not even people no more we algorithms

I saw something that said the fucking app knows when I'm looking at it the app no the fucking meta knows when I'm looking at my phone they know not when I'm scrolling they know when my eyes are trained on the phone

we just not control of these brains anymore and we got to figure out a way to get control of them again I don't got too much to say I just tell you something man if if you are a human being I love you if you a young black human being I really love you

like if you a young black person out there I love you so much it hurts man and I want the best for you that's it Rachel you got anything more to say about Congressman Crockin before we leave you got parting shots a fresh out

see how I just did it I just I did all that shit that I came right back to it I'm fresh out but I love you if you old too but you kind of had your chance. No, I'm just joking. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. I just want to see these kids get a chance to laugh and love. That's why I watch that show forever.

I love that show so much. Thank you, Mara. For young black people in love with Wood Harris, I love that show. Thank you for young black people with great skin. They got a good skin regimen on that show. It's beautiful. When season two drops, we got to have some of them come through.

I love that show. Love to see young black people. I cried in it. You like that shit? I loved it. It's been a long time since I fell in love with two characters like that. Probably since Lawrence and Issa. Lawrence and Issa.

What happened at the end of Insecure? They got married. Lawrence Issa got married? Yeah. And had a baby. I actually didn't realize this. Or wait. Maybe that was his baby.

That was his baby. She came stepmom. So I saw, I saw, I saw, I saw, one thing where she shot the baby like Kobe. Oh yeah. That happens in the show but it's like a thought of hers.

I need to watch the last season. That's so good. Yeah. I love them so much. All right. I tell you, think caps off with the last night. I'm Valentine's Union.

I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.