Historically High - Anton Lavey and The Church of Satan

Episode Date: August 24, 2022

Religion is a touchy subject. With so many faiths throughout the word its hard to pick which to cover first...well actually......it wasn't that hard. Now if you were to start your own religion, I can't really think of a better way to grab everyone's attention than by making your church's deity the bad guy from someone else's story. But that's actually pretty misleading, most of their shit was about free-thinking, challenging society, and living life ones own way. Doesn't sound all too crazy when you say it like that, but don't worry, with a name like it has, the church had some crazy shit happening as well.  Support the show Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

that I hate it, but at the same time, it's just not good. Well, I think once you... Well, do you think it was more of a... Are we recording? Yeah. I don't hear it in my hit. Did you forget to plug in your headphones? I don't want to talk about it.

Holy shit, we're recording. Yeah. I can hear it my headphones now. Can you hear it in your headphones? This is good. This break is brought to you by technical difficulties. Oh no, everybody else could hear. It was just me that had the headphones on.

Okay, we'll jump back in. We haven't given away really anything to see what the topic is. But I do want to discuss the golf outing last week. Oh, yeah. I got to say, too, being back on the microdosing diet regime, great, great way to be. Is today your first day back on it? Yesterday was, but today, like, it doesn't fully, you got to get a little bit built up in your system. but the birds chirped lighter or louder the yeah the uh the sunshine brighter like it was a

a nicer day after a small dose. Is it one of those things where you woke up and you hit the alarm clock and all of a sudden it chimed and it's like, it's a beautiful morning. It wasn't like everything was great but it was like everything's just going to suck less which that's hard to beat. Suck less is sometimes preferable to a lot of things. I'm not asking for much. I'm just asking for it to suck just a little less.

Yeah. Okay, so the golf trip. So I was telling you about it after we reported the last podcast, but I wanted to go in some more detail. So we ended up burning home ninth. It was a hard-fought ninth out of about a field of 40. It ain't bad. I went into it much more confident thinking we were going to go double digits under.

We ended up being like five under. So it was the foursome? Yeah, it's a for some. scramble, which I always think going into a scramble that you should just be able to almost fucking birdie every hole. Because you're using, you know, and we had, you know, we had Joel with us, so. It didn't hurt that you had the Grateful Dead's Rody playing golf with you. That's all he does.

He was showing me his phone. He's like, I've played over a hundred rounds of golf this year. He just smokes weed and golf? That's all he does. Did you guys make him change out of tie-dye to golf in the tournament? No, I think he probably would have helped him had you worn that. He didn't wear me. I think that was all the issues.

He was in a monkey suit. We played a warm-up round the day before, and I played so good. I was like, it was either my drive was perfect, and it was my chip. Like, my second shot was a little right and left. My chipping was somehow perfect, and I was trying, like, new shit. Like, I opened the face and everything, and I was just trying it, and it was working. And so... That's why it's a practice round.

I know, but then you go in the next day, and you're like, I played so goddamn good. I got to play to that level. You get in your own head, and then I didn't play so good the next day. Who shots did you use the most? Oh, Jules. but as far as like drives go I think we probably equally use like me and Ryan's drives

and because Joel would go first and his is like a good drive but his is literally just it has just a little bit of a curve to it but it's like he starts the curve and then he parks in the middle it's the most boring golfer to watch

he just plays his curve no he's boring because it's always in the fucking fairway it's just like there's no spice to it like aren't you gonna see any other part of the course don't you want to say the rough? I hate to say it, but that's sort of point.

I understand that, but that's what we were saying. You're like, you fucking golf game's boring. So. Not with him. Then he would go first, but then we could step up and just try to hammer the shit out of it. Yeah. And yeah, you're just letting freedom ring. So we used his shots the most, but they had one of the holes.

They had a CO2 cannon that they would load a golf ball for you. And they would let you fire it downrange. I'm not even shit in you man. this thing was going probably like, I think the longest drive they had for the day was like 400 yards. So you would basically, they put in these special golf balls that are almost like an aerodynamic golf ball, not as many like dimples in it. And the guy would pump the thing full of air from a CO2 tank. He'd give it to you and he'd be like a little higher, a little higher, a little left. And you just fire it.

And this thing would just rock it. And it had to go over like a set of trees. It was like it's not a clear. It was clearing these trees by like 100 yards. It was insane. So how much car plunge did you have with that? How much freedom did you have with the CO2 gun? You just got one, you each got one shot down the...

So if you got one good one, you could have turned around and fired it at somebody? Yeah, but everyone was trying to get the furthest. And then, of course, it's the same ball. So once you get down there, no one can fucking tell whose ball is whose. True. You just pick the best one because it's a scramble. Okay, so anyway, the plane right there, the reason they wanted to bring this up. We're taking our clubs when we go up there, right?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Are you kidding me? Okay, just being sure. Clubs, mics, everything. So we were on the flight up there, and this is a 9 o'clock in the morning flight. I'm sitting next to Joel. We were supposed to be, it's a five-seater plane, three on one side, I think, three on the other.

Or it might be three on each side. Yeah, three and three. So we were supposed to be sitting on, there's four of us, so we were supposed to be sitting all three of us together and then one across the aisle. For some reason, it didn't check two of us in. So me and Joel got bumped back one row, but in the same seats that we would have been in. So two older people were sitting right in front of us, but then next to. So I'm sitting there and Joel kind of like nudges me and points the crack between the seats.

and so I kind of lean forward and he's pointing. And, you know, when you see like your grandma or someone pull out their phone and the prints like huge so they can read like names and shit. Got to be. Eventually it's not names. Eventually it's everything. Yes. But that's how it was for this guy. So this guy had his phone out and his wife sitting right next to him.

So I'm going to read you the page that was on display. Took the entire cock felt so amazing. I didn't last long, but she came at least five times and nearly passed out when I came in her. We fucked five times at night. I was thrilled. I was thrilled and she turned into a total slut. This is from literonica.com on this guy's phone. Now, I didn't get any pictures of the next pages, but I would peek every now and then.

So there was some big black cocks in this story. Was he old enough that he didn't have to worry about getting an erectional? on a plane because it's not been a minute. No, I mean, white hair probably 70s. Late 70s. He's sticking boners at that point, I think. He got up at some point, went to the bathroom, probably to masturbate, but...

You would have to. After reading something like that, just nonstop on the entire flight, you would have to get up as soon as that C-bell light goes off. He's like, oh, thank God. Just a spooge dust cloud in the fucking airport lavatory. That's how you know it's going to be a good trip, though.

You run into something like that. That's like a blessing on your trip. That shit's less offensive than taking your shoes off on an airplane. Yeah. I would much rather that be happening next to me in front of me where I can see it. Maybe I could be reading over a shoulder. Had I been sitting next to him, I would have just been leaned over. Hey, buddy, hey, can you slow down a little bit? I'm not as fast as a reader as you. It's hard and also hard for me to go ahead and I'm trying to masturbate with my left hand so I can lean on my right. There's only four words on the screen because you have the print so big. I mean, it was at least, maybe five sentences. That's, I mean, whatever you gotta do to get your fix,

we don't kink shame. And if he wanted to read that on his own accord, he's a grown man. When you just don't give a shit enough to where you're just like, you know, I probably, do you think the negotiation in his head was like, you know what? It'd probably be kind of offensive if I was looking at, you know,

I'm not going to watch porn because, you know, someone will look over my shoulder, or maybe see that. I'm not going to go still photos because then still, that could be offensive to someone if they just look. He's like,

but if I'm reading it, then I could just say the person was looking over me and reading my book that it was just words. Even though the print was fucking huge and like the predominant word on the page was cocked.

I'm not going to lie to you, that's probably the only reason why it caught Joel's attention when he was just passing glance. between the seat is he probably just saw either slut or cock and he was just like come again what's that what's this guy reading is there an age like can you i don't know if you can't being a woman i don't think but can you age out of being a pervert for a man like is there a point to where it goes from like you're just a pervert to just old because nobody's going to call him no i feel like it's actually

the opposite i feel like there's less of an exempt you don't age out of it you have to age into it. Because I think if you're a pervert and you're of an age in which that's not, like, if you're in like your 20s, like, okay, you can be a little bit of a pervert, not a fucking creep. I want to make sure there's a difference between these two. You can be a pervert and not a creep. But I think that as you then get older out of your 20s and everything like that, you can't do that.

You have to be respectable a little bit. You can still be a pervert. You just got to keep it kind of on the hush. You keep it between your friends. You keep it between your, but you at the, at the, you at the, you. that point you're probably in a relationship saying someone and so you get to be a pervert with someone well they're they're tied to you so they have to take yes they have to take that so but then i think once you start getting older you get to give less shits and i think that's when

you can just then be less discreet with your with your perversions because everyone knows like the like an old guy that likes to like hug a little bit too long or some shit like that well and it can be easily played off i mean guy that hugs a little too long if he's 80 years old maybe he's got a hard time getting his joints. No, I'm saying this comes in much earlier. Like, I got uncles who are fucking perverts. And they're like 50s or 60s. But they're on the cusp.

Like, that's the cusp of almost aging out of being a pervert. Because eventually your tackle doesn't work anymore. Your gear doesn't work. I think that maybe even gives them more incentive, like, I'm harmless. It might just be a better cover. I mean, I hate to admit it, but... Here's the other thing. There's stuff to make your tackle work.

Yeah. It's not, that's not even a... That's not even a thing. Oh, that was a funny thing that I saw about the, it was like at a, like, pro-abortion rally or something like that. And it's something about, or it might have been someone actually in like a local, like local Congress or something was talking about how if the whole point between a woman not being able to have an abortion is because it's like outside of like God's plan, then men shouldn't be able to take any type of medication for erectile dysfunction because that's nature. and that's God's will takes that boner away. You're not supposed to have boners no more. No, and most of the time when I think about God's will, it does take my boner away.

So that's usually something I try not to do. Speaking of God's will, who would be the opposite, on the opposite side of that? Who would be pro bono? Not pro bono. No, no, pro bono. Who would be pro bono for boners? If God was against boners, he's like, nope, boners are going away. Who would be on the other side of that courtroom arguing in things?

of boners? It's got to be Baphimet, L. Diablo. Baphimet, L. Diablo, the cloven beast. Just every sweet name

that you can think of, which, Bielzebob, always a good one. I didn't know, we'll get into it, but yeah, it's the devil.

And what's cooler than saying pretty much any other phrase in the English language? Hail Satan. Hell Satan's kind of a badass saying. You want to introduce what the topic is before I ask my question? Yeah, we're doing the Black Pope himself, the man Anton Zandar LeVay.

And his... The high priest, the founder... Was he the high... Yeah, he was the high priest... That's what they called the highest one, right? The high priest... The OG high priest of the... the Church of Satan.

So, just starting this off, you're going to have to kind of explain to me. What? Because they said that like, so there's Satan as described in, you know, kind of the mainstream Satan that comes with Christianity. But then this was like detached from that. They didn't really, did they mean Satan? Yeah. It was Satanism, right?

Yeah. Which was like a type of belief system or. So why did they tie it? Like how was it tied there? Was it just because it was the polar opposite of Christianity? And they were trying to make it that way? This is going to be tougher high to explain than I thought it was going to be as I'm trying to gather my thoughts, but I'm going to try to do as much justice as possible.

Do you need to start at the beginning and that it's going to explain it? No, no. This is kind of like a good way to start it because if you kind of know what they're doing, it makes more sense along the way. So basically the reason that it is the Church of Satan or Satanism is because most, if not all religions, base good and bad as like an emotional connection or a struggle that you have in life. Okay. So like are you talking about? So the visual personification for that would be that, would that be the devil and the angel on the shoulder?

Something like is it kind of akin to that? Is that like supposed to be the To say like God is good and Satan is bad kind of puts a face to what it is

Okay But it was supposed to give you just like I don't know something tangible right Yeah and it was

more to kind of be able to label things Because if you have the Lord saying good things and you believe that those are good things

Then anything counter to him Would be considered A bad thing So if there was something negative That's the devil's word If it's something positive, yeah, that's God.

But the fundamental flaw in that system is people's perception of good and bad really is a personal thing. There's things that I think are good that other people think are bad. There's things that I think are bad that other people who think are good. And there's things that happen in the world. I mean, an interesting thought that I've had about this is like when a terrorist attack happens in the name of a religion or something like that, you immediately, if you're not a part of that religion, think, hey, this is bad.

Like, that's a bad, that's a terroristic act. Yes. But in those people... Because it's not your team. It's like an attack against your team by another team, yeah. But in the person that carried it out, they truly believe that it is a good heroic act. Yeah.

Which isn't right because it's still like taking a life or causing catastrophe or anything. It's not honest. He would think, like, even if they're thinking that they're doing, you know, their, their gods or their entity's will or, you know, trying to please them, it's still, I don't know. Like, I guess I just don't have that, that ability to put myself in that mindset. I don't know, maybe you have to be religious to be able to kind of put yourself in the mindset of, like, when I do this in this person's name.

It takes certainly a fanatical person to do it, but you can almost kind of see. like how the gears are going on in their head. And I just use sports as an analogy. Every time the bills win or formerly the Packers, every time they would be a division rival, it was always good to me. On the polar opposite side for the other team, it was always bad to them.

But it's really neither good nor bad because that's just the value that we place on it. So when you're trying to go against a religious message, And they're labeling everything is bad and everything that they want you to do is good. You have to figure out a way to combat that. So Satan being the church of Satan, they're just saying that they're choosing the counter to everything that they've been taught is bad. So like when you hear masturbation is bad because it makes you blind and Jesus cries every time you jerk off and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

I've killed so many puppies. Puppy heaven is just full. Wholesale puppy slaughter. Well, I think it's one of those things where just everybody does. But when you label it bad, you assign an emotion of guilt to it. I don't know if I know anyone.

There are people that consider it bad, but I personally don't know if I know anybody that considers master. I actually probably do know a couple of people. Religious folks. It's just, it's self-satisfaction. It's giving in to the sins of the flesh. Do you think that it's...

I feel like we're going to go off on tendons because I feel like this is our first real foray into religion. Absolutely. So it's just like it's going to open the door, which it's good that we're recording it now because I feel like we can literally just sit here and talk. Normally we record earlier in the day on the weekends. But this is going to be one of the rare times, which this might be fun to do every now

and then. But we're getting to record in the evening and kind of into the night. So I think we get to kind of cut loose a little bit more. Anyway. It's the perfect religion to start the religions with. So here's the thing is with religions and them saying like, do you think there are things founded that like masturbation is bad? They tell you the masturbation is bad because it's like it's a sin because you're,

I mean, what's the reason behind it? It's because you're like, not disgracing, but like debasing yourself or some shit like that? The explanation that the Church of Satan gives is it's like giving into one's own self. Will. Wait, are they against? No, they're for. Okay, thank God. But they're for it because they believe that there is some sort of, I wouldn't say pleasure or like, it's tough to explain. Like they believe that giving into self-satisfaction and like the certain sinful life that religion teaches as almost like a tribute to themselves. they believe that's right that's that's the whole point in this is there's this is like the church of

it's been called like what the church of indulgence or like church of self indulgence self indulgence and everything um i feel like if you were to because you know nowadays and everything if you if a law is made or something like that you can usually try to peel back the bullshit of what they tell you why the law was created and find out that there's a different reasoning for that so with like christianity or other religions that tell you masturbation is bad. Listen, I'm just going to say this,

and I don't know if anyone else is with me, but that shit kind of keeps you sane. And it's healthy. Yes, it actually is medically healthy for men to do that for your prostate and everything, but... And I'm sure there's something for women, too. Yes, I'm sure there is.

Mental health. Also, like, it gives you a chance to, like, how many women, like, does that help, like, them get to know their bodies and be more comfortable with themselves and everything? I'm not a woman, but I've always had this crazy thought in my mind about what it would feel like to experience a woman's orgasm?

Because it's got to be crazy, right? Absolutely. Okay. So your whole body, didn't start at your feet. No kidding. And you get to have it, like, you can have multiple ones. It can last longer. Like, um, anyway, so with the whole like not masturbation, and this applies to so many

other, like, religious, like, taboos or stuff that's considered bad in religions, is there a, kind of a hidden meaning behind it? Like, don't masturbate. And the whole reason for that is, really don't masturbate because then you're not going to feel such an imperative to breed and have children which means that if you're having children and your follow of Christianity we're creating more Christians it's a way to go ahead and kind of expand our our religious base it's more and this is what the church Satan says and I kind of completely agree with it

because it just makes sense so score one for Satanism but instead of like pushing your time and efforts and feelings and emotion towards the deity towards something that has been created by somebody else and taking care of your own carnal desires whether it be sex masturbation drinking alcohol they don't push drinking drugs alcohol anything like that but they say have a good time with it like you're only here once this is your body treat your body like the god that you want so if you don't if you give into yourself indulgences that's what you need to do because ultimately you're the only one that's watching out for you're the only one that's watching out for you're you're the only one that's watching out for you're you're for you and when you don't because you don't want to offend God or they want you to devote more time to God, that's just putting basically undue time and feelings and emotion into something that somebody else had created. I kind of feel like this goes two ways. And I think I'm not jumping ahead, but I'm kind of just like looking at it as a whole. Is this is either just completely bad shit crazy and just funny or if, it's,

It's like such a slow play that if this, let's say, let's just entertain the idea that God and the devil exist. And like, God is like in your face, like super in your face about, he's like, I've got all these different religions. Like I'm just, mm. And Satan is just like, okay, you do that. Go ahead and do your thing there because you're going to make everybody feel so pressed. I'm going to go ahead and slow play you behind the scenes. And all those things that people think are fun that you. don't agree with and all the things that you think are enjoyable.

I'm going to say that those things are all right, but I'm not going to go, like, so far over that I come out like the evil guy. So, like, murder's still bad. Like, don't do that because, like, you know, the Church of Satan, if this were to actually have some legitimacy in, like, satanic teachings or whatever, their whole spiel is to just be so casual about just, like, the indulgence part, like, about human nature, like, wanting to be like, you know, treat yourself, treat yourself about this, that it's almost like, if it didn't have this name,

the Church of Satan, it would be much more popular. It's intentional, though. I think it's 100% intentional, because, and we'll get into talking about it, but when they do, like when he does that, he performs all the different functions inside the church, like the baptism and stuff. When he mentions things, he mentions that he, gives their life to the left hand, which in biblical senses,

it's always the right hand of God. So there's a juxtaposition on like all the different... Wasn't Lucifer originally at the left hand of God or something like that? Like Michael was at the right, is it some shit like that? It's a lot like that. There's references to Satan being the snake that tricked Adam and Eve into have an anal in the Garden of Eden.

I thought they ate an apple. That's just a euphom. eating an... It's the same thing. There's no way that eating an apple gets you kicked out. It had to have been

more than that. But there's just a million... Don't touch her apple. That's what we're gonna call it. I thought he said apple. I thought you said apple, not an asshole. In all fairness,

they sound very similar. He was talking from the clouds up in the sky. He's got a very deep voice. They begin and end with the same vowel. Like, it's pretty close. The church makes references to it to kind of give

that position of God is good, the devil is evil, anytime you're tempted, it's not me, it's him. And they just basically want to troll all religion to the point of calling themselves the Church of Satan because there's really, besides some, like, funky occult stuff that I don't know was something that he actually believed in,

or it was just a ritual to bring in attention to what they were doing. To kind of lend some credence to the name Church of Satan. Like if we're going to call ourselves Church of Satan, we should probably maybe every so often do some weird. You got to chew it up a little bit. Yeah, we got to do some culty or some like taboo shit to kind of keep our weird status. And Anton is big of a just a loser as he was. He's just, when we talk about his life,

it's like pretty much everything that you learn about him, there's a chance that it's a lie, there's a chance that it's a little bit true, but it's never like 100% clear. But he was a hell of a salesman. Like the guy knew how to make things happen. He knew how to bring people in. He got the kind of media attention that people would kill for, all because he knew how to play up his act and play to the people.

And he just could never capitalize on it enough to be able to make it into like a rich man's religion. And maybe that was by design. Maybe he saw the leaders of churches getting rich and being well off and didn't want to be that way. But no matter what it was, the star always had to be on him, and that also could have been his downfall, was that he wasn't caring about everything else as much. So his real name, though, because Anton, is it Zandor? Zandar, yeah, Zandor. Zandor LeVay.

That's cool. That's a good name to go ahead and pick up. Howard Stanton LeVay probably doesn't sound as, what, mythical? or? No, Howard has never been a threatening name. Howie? Yeah. And he got...

Grand... God, what was it? It's High priest. High priest Howie. High priest Howie is... No. That's actually not a bad nickname, though. Yeah, if you're on deal or no deal.

Yeah. So when is... So he's born April 11, 1930 in Chicago. Parents, Michael and Gertrude. God, Gertrude does not... That's not a name that ever made a... made a comeback. It probably had to have died in the 50s.

Like, Gertrude in the 30s makes sense. Gertrude in 2022. That or by the time anyone actually gets old enough to be able to change their name in 18. They're like, get, this shit's got to go. Gertie isn't a good nickname. Can you imagine calling that out? I'd be like, Gertie, yeah.

How would you even call that name out? Oh, Gertie. Call me by my name. I'd rather not. Yeah, 1930s. So, I mean, he comes in a little bit before World War II. And, man, he, I feel like when I was reading the dates, because again, 97 to me seems like it's 10 years ago. No.

I know it's not. But like when I looked at that, it's like, oh, he was pretty old when he died. He was not. Yeah, he, I don't know what would have led to it, too, besides just the fact that he put so much stress on his life trying to do this. And there are points of this were towards the end, like when things start to unravel and people, start to go their own ways and start forming their own like branches and sex. I could tell that that would probably put a lot of stress on somebody just because you did build something and now everybody's questioning you because you got desperate and made a couple

bad moves. So how does he even get to this point though? Like walk me through him like growing up. How does he get even? Because you got to think have something. You don't grow up as a kid being like, I'd like to make a religion. He worships the devil. and he had such a normal

he was just raised in such a normal way Michael and Gertrude were both fairly well-to-do parents they were there for him they didn't really force anything on him when he was he was either like six or eight and they took him into a music store and he said that he picked up a harp

and strummed out a melody like immediately and that was when he knew that he just had incredible musical talents which he actually did for the most part he learned to play the pipe organ and did that a lot kind of in different various settings

What was the name of the instrument? I want to say the Calliope. Was it a Calliope? It is the most annoying instrument that there is. What does it look like? It's like a big organ. It looks like it's a big organ.

Kind of. It's one of those things where it's just from like the Keliopiope. I don't know if it's the, the circus or what? Let's see. But I'm getting pictures of a bunch of women from probably Greece. You got to put in an instrument.

It was, I think it was people too. It just, to me, looks like a smaller kind of a pipe organ. I'm trying to figure out. Yeah, it's like when you like see, I don't know,

about the size of like a dresser. Yeah. With a bunch of like brass rods sticking up out of the back. And like what you would see in like, sometimes you see these like in church And they have huge elaborate, like, those huge pipes sticking out of them. Yeah, it's kind of what looks like. And I'm not a...

It's not a sexy, it's not a sexy instrument. I have no idea if we can play YouTube shit. I assume that it's got to be probably fairly okay. You could probably just play literally just like the sound. Like, that's a creepy noise. Yes. You don't hear that in normal parts of society. So that kind of...

That's what you hear in an abandoned toy factory right before you're murdered. Mm-hmm. Yeah, before a toy toy toy. jumps off the assembly line and just guts you. He had a grandma that he had said kind of started off and sparked his mind into the occult which he

said that she was from Transylvania and the stories of vampires and everything from her home country kind of sparked that feeling in him that he needed to know more about the weird and the occult. Yeah, I don't even really know a good definition for the

occult. Just like... Yeah. It's like mysticism. A little bit. You get into witches and warlocks. The occult would also be like... The founding youth. Yeah, almost like...

Yeah, kind of. I mean, even like magic spells or like... When I think of occult stuff, I think of like... My mind always goes here, but I think of like... I know Hitler was really injured... They were really injured. He had like an apartment even looking into it. And then I always think of like Rasputin.

Yeah. Like from like the Russian czars and stuff like that. he always seems to like But yeah I think it's about trying to find some like mystic power Like within the earth Or spirits or life after

All that kind of stuff is all A coven of witches Yeah all that stuff is the occult I think is what they call it yeah So that That really kind of spiced him into it He said Unfortunately we later come to find

That his grandma was from Ukraine So good chance that there wasn't a whole lot of mysticism Over there back then There were gypsies Yeah which I'm sure May have played a little bit of a role in it, but he just dove headlong into it. And all the while, he picked up piano very quickly. He picked up the, like I said, the pipe organ very quickly,

the Calliope. He said that he played the organ in church growing up, but also said that they weren't very religious. So it was kind of a, like, he said that it happened, but then he also said that they didn't go to church much, so I don't know how you're an organist. I have seen that as a running theme for him is it would say like a whole bunch of information. and they'd be like there were no records found about any of this information. Just straight up bullshit from this guy's mind. So he, like I say, it was a fairly normal upbringing. Both of his parents were there until he got up to 16 and then decided that school wasn't for him,

which I can't say is probably a bad thing because if he was that goofy, he just probably needed to go find his own way. And little known fact that I'm not sure who all has. confirmed it, but in his biography that he authorized to do, apparently Guy had a hammer on him. Like, just a big, old floppy dong. As in enough to where he said that he didn't enjoy PE because he didn't like getting undressed in front of the other guys

because they would gawk at it and they would make fun of him. Who makes fun of a guy for having a big penis? Oh, you poor baby with your giant dick. Oh, you poor thing. Yeah, third leg Anton's getting dressed over there in the corner trying to hide it. That wasn't even the weirdest thing. Do you feel uncomfortable getting in dressed if everyone has tiny penises? He made a claim that any time he would go to the nurse,

that no matter what ailment he had, she would always tell him to undress, and then she would turn around and pull out a makeup mirror and peep his dong, his grade school penis. So for this, I'm just going to... just preference this entire podcast with this. Usually I'll call like bullshit or just say the word bullshit without even think about it when something is bullshit. I'm only, I'm going to say I believe that instead because I feel like I'm going to have to say that a lot less than bullshit. Yeah, it's just you need an overall or overarching just bullshit cap meter. Like everything he says is questionable.

And Tom, listen. Be happy with your average size penis most likely. You know, we all got to deal with it. And don't be embarrassed If you do have That's the oldest playing the book I'm going to write this book And I'm going to make my dick huge

And no one will question it To the point to it's so embarrassing It's like it's like impossibly huge Like oh it caused me issues You know how big your dick would have to be To actually cause you issues I had to be embarrassed about it in grade school Like that ain't happening

No because I'm telling you right now That kid is trying to whip his dick out Every chance he gets at look at this He's trying to give a show at that point, which he was a showman, so maybe that was what was embarrassing, was he just didn't quite have the showmanship back then. Put it back in your pants, freak. But after he ends up leaving school at 16,

he says that he joins a circus, which to me seems just kind of a good fit for him. Yeah, he takes his huge dick and leaves for the circus. Yeah, he's probably going to be a part of the freak show. So when he gets there, he ends up taking like the lowest job that you can get with the circus and they also what did they call the job i'm trying to remember it was like the jack the every man at a circus but it's like a known term i i looked at and i was like oh that's where that term comes from yeah so um go ahead besides that they also offered him the job

of feeding the big cats which i wonder how many times that job had to be filled just through circus accidents. Like, you show up, you're like, hey, man, I want a job. Like, oh, cool, something just opened up. Yeah, you're going to be feeding the big cats. Like, well, what does that entail? Like, I, you run into the cage, you throw the meat,

and then you get out of the cage before they attack you. He's like, oh, so. What's he not, why are they not tossing the meat through, through the bars? Well, I don't know. I just, I assume that that's what they have to do, because you have to clean up the pan too. You probably have to clean up the lion shit and all that stuff.

So that job probably was vacated more times through accidents. than anything. But he kind of says that he learns to train these lions and, of course, blows it out of proportion and said that he used to sleep in the cage with the big cats. And they loved him. He said that he could sit down in front of a cat and eat a meal in front of it without the cat so much as flinching towards his direction. Which, again, also complete bullshit. This guy sounds like, I'm just picturing my head, he sounds like that doc Antel guy from fucking Tiger King.

Yeah, he got pinched like a month ago Oh, shucks I thought that would happen a lot sooner What did he get pinched before? I didn't see, I just saw that he was arrested on this compound I see him being as not a big taxpayer No, he definitely is a sovereign citizen type So after he does his time with the circus

When the circus is kind of at its end A roused about, yeah Yeah, yeah Like a ruffian, a roused about Most about in a cage boy. Two, I'm sure high-paying jobs. Cage boy. Fetched my lubricant.

He said that after the circus was over, he did the carnival circuit. So he worked in the carnivals, and he played the organ while doing that. Did you know that that's where, like, they used to call circus workers carnies? Because there always used to be a circus and a carnival. well they went with it. They always used to be kind of synonymous. And then the circus just kind of the circus part was like the animal, an entertainer part. And that kind of part

just fell by the wayside. And then it was just the carnivals. Because carnivals could get packed up. It was machinery instead of animals and everything. So they just kept calling them carnies. But I guess circuses and carnivals always used to kind of just be together. Well, and Barnum and Bailey went one way. Barnum went one way, Bailey went the other. So one of his

Jobs with the Carnival was that he would play the pipe organ during the burlesque shows at the carnival after dark. Wait, so at this point carnivals had

burles shows. Oh yeah, this was... The 50s is a wild time. You could really get away from anything. That and then when you think about the lowest form of humanity at a carnival, those people aren't high society. I'm just saying, do you know how many more People would go to carnivals if there were still burles shows.

They would sell out completely. Hold on, though. Can you imagine the quality of dancer that's going to be at a carnival burles show? That might be entertaining just to see for that aspect alone. It would be like, what would have to happen to bring someone here? You just think there's like a nipple by the left armpit, then the other one is down by the belly button? You go to get on the tilt of whirl

And you hear the ladies She's like, hey, hurry up I gotta be to the burlesque in 15 minutes Like, oh shit, you? So while he was playing the pipe organ He would look out at the crowd And he would just see a lot of Terrible men that were hooting and hollering

And throwing money at these burlesque dancers And then once the carnival packed up They would rent the tents out To like evangelical groups that would come in and do like big Sunday sermons. Yeah, what do they call it? Like tent revivals. Yes, ten revivals, exactly.

And as he was playing there, he would look out, and he said that he would see the exact same guys that he saw last night, Hoot and holler and at the burlesst dancers. So that kind of gave him the disillusionment with religion that all these people... He was like, oh, these people, oh, they're just full of shit. Yeah, they go to church on Sunday,

and then come Saturday night, they're throwing quarter, is it the odd carny that's dancing naked in front of them. Which is weird that he didn't lose his disillusionment with, like, people. Because that's like a personal choice. But I guess he just kind of linked the two. Because maybe he felt like if the religion was working, then they wouldn't have been at the shows or something like that. I don't know.

That, and also I think that, like, when you see somebody at church, if you were to see one person at church and then at a strip club, their facial features at church are not going to be nearly as happiness and joy full of joy as you would at a strip low and you know i i don't know i just i have a weird it's not a conflict but i just me and like modern religion just have this thing where i'm like like are like are you necessary now but how many people do you think go to church because they're hoping someday it's going to be like the counterbalance to the shitty stuff they do in life.

Like they think if they go to church, it's just, it's almost not even for, it's for their own self-gratification of knowing that they're thinking that they're still a good person, even though the six days a week they're leading up to it, they're shitty to people. It's kind of like the one foot in, one foot out scenario. Yeah, or you just, or, you know, it's like your,

it's like, it's like car insurance for them. They're paying this every week because they hope in the, situation in which they die and they're brought to whatever the pearly gates for judgment that they can be like

but I went to church every week and they're like but you were shitting they're like yeah but I went to church every week because I still believed in this stuff

you're like did you though? Like what's what to you is more impressive somebody that doesn't go to church but that is kind of people or someone that does go to church that's not as kind of people

like what are we valuing? I was in it for a long time I was in it for a number of years where I had one foot in and one foot out, but the only thing that was keeping my foot in was just the 18 plus years that I had grown up in it to where there's still a little pole to be like, well, I know that I was guilt-tripped about this. I know that I'm supposed to feel bad about the other things that I'm doing. At the same time, if I show up to church, maybe there's a little bit of hope. Like maybe I'll just get back to this. maybe I'll choose this. And as time went on...

You're trying to basically like... Hedge my bet. You're basically trying to like improve your karmic credit score. Yeah, I was just trying to stay in it to the point where like maybe it was just a phase that I was going through of like partying and having fun and enjoying my life. But as I got further away from the times when I was so far in it, that I realized that I just, I couldn't make it make sense anymore. Like there were just too many questions. There were too many issues. then when you really start to dig,

which there's a reason why it's not super easy to find a lot of financials and anything on a religion. Because when you see it and you start running the money through your head and your analytical mind kicks in, it just kind of blows everything out of the water. I get that you're a religion that helps people,

but if you're worth $40 billion and you have these giant holdings of land everywhere, is it really all about helping people, or is it about growing wealth? well and at what point does it become we'll get right back into it after this at what point does it become like

too like too much or what point does it lose you know the people that go to like those mega churches that they have like in the south that they're huge they're like state how many do they hold it's like hundred not sorry not hundreds tens of thousands of thousands yeah they're huge like the joel austine and i can't remember any of who's the fucking crazy guy that did the finger point

when they accused him of using his private jet for some shit. I mean, there's Pat Robertson, Creflo Dollar. Yeah, like you said, Alstein is kind of the ultimate grift man. But there was a brother in New York that got robbed for like three million dollars worth of jewelry that he was wearing while he was doing like a Sunday service outside. You're wearing three million dollars worth of jewelry. It actually, like, there is, like, as much as it is satire, there's so much truth that, like, the righteous gemstones is based in about those types of families and everything, that it's just, like, do the people actually going and paying attention think that that person up there that flies around in a private jet and has a man, like, how does that compute in people's minds when they're like, this person should live so much better than us and have so much more than all of us? because he's the one that's talking to us about this book. Oh, he's the chosen one.

He's the... No, but is that an actual claim? I know, but is that still an actual claim? Like, are there still... Like, the people believe that it's like, I am a vessel through which the voice of God flows, and I'm talking, and I'm talking, God speaks to me, and then I say those words to you.

Absolutely. The Pope does it. The prophet does it. The other big leaders do it. The Pope thing is weird, though, because he's selected, So what are they saying? They have a pool of people that they're like, all these guys can talk to God.

We just need to decide which one we're going to actually vote for. Or does being all of a sudden being selected at the Pope, they're like, okay, here you go, dude, here's your cell phone, your burner phone to God. So now you have the direct hotline to him. I don't get it. A little inside baseball. They run a lot of those things,

and a lot of different churches say they do it different, but it's all kind of the same bullshit when they say it. It's called divine inspiration. So basically like all the cardinals and everything for the Catholic church that go in and talk it over. Is this the same type of like justification when they said like kicking all the Native Americans out was like what do they call like divine con is it divine conquest? Yeah. Is it that same kind of bullshit where they just throw the word divine in front of something to make something okay and believable? Well they say that they pray on it and then the Lord gives them the answer to who would be best suited as for.

far as like, I don't know if it's like God's like, hey, I want to talk to that dude, bring him in. But they get kind of this feeling of this is the guy that we need. And in the Mormon church, this happens at all levels, which kind of seems weird to me. Like when the bishop is chosen for like a ward, the state presidency prays over that ward to say, who do we need to put into this? And then they tap his shoulder. They tell him that they were divinely inspired to ask him. and so is it just people that they pick or do they have people that they know are interested in that

uh you can kind of tell like there's there's kind of a spirituality of that echelon within because it's not just there's is there someone below the bishop at the local level yeah there's bishop first counselor and second counselor so if someone's a first or second counselor then they probably already they probably understand that that person has aspirations to them be bishop right it does happen that way but sometimes it's just random i mean i've seen guys that were outmasters before that that had led up kind of different other heads and other like the different priesthoods what if it like the divine inspiration had them call upon someone who was like 19 or like 20 or like 21 I guess if they got back from like a mission or something they were like but

technically shouldn't that be possible it absolutely could and the argument to that is probably the person who is most godly and who has led kind of the right kind of life for the last two years that should bring them to that point would be a return missionary because they went over and lived it in another country for two straight years. They're the closest to it at that point. Yeah, that should be it. But usually... But I feel like it's, okay, so, but this isn't exclusive to just like one or two religions. This is something that like... The Catholics do it too. When the Cardinals go in and they do the black smoke and shit. What do you think that's like? I know we're getting off topic here, but it's religion. It's a religious discussion. So, that's what it is. So the Cardinals, we need to do a whole podcast.

on that whole selection. Vatican City in that whole conversation, but like... Crazy place. What's the, like, what is the... Because it is. It seems like probably the Cardinals and like the... What they call it, the College of Cardinals. That's got to be just insanely, like, political. But not political in the sense of like...

Two parties or something like that, but it's just got to be a lot of like... Do you think it's a lot of like scheming and all that kind of stuff? There's definitely a rhyme to the reason that happens. and I don't it's not a current pope I think it was last pope that had to go to Pope retirement because he stepped down but I think he was from South America and he was like the first Pope that had ever come from South America

so I'm sure there was politicking as far as like hey we want to continue to grow the Catholic Church down in South America we want to push for everybody if we can give them the figurehead of our religion and tap a bunch of untap down there to where when we're going down there and trying to spread the word, we can say, hey, our pope is from the same country that you are, our pope is from the same continent.

Like, we believe that you are just as valued as everybody else. They're going to be pushing more numbers down in that country. Has there ever been an American pope? I don't think so. Hey, there might have been, but there's been a lot of popes, dude. There has been, but I think, and I think Catholicism, maybe they were just at the point where they're like, America's, we're good there. like enough people are Catholic there

that I don't think we really need to go ahead and give them a I also think honestly I honestly think there would be a fear because of how we tend to be and I'm not saying you know what I I guess I am saying that in a not a negative way but it's just the fact of the matter is that Americans we tend to be a certain way when it comes to kind of like our pecking order in the world

and we for the most part have kind of an inflated ego, I guess, due to past world events and our policing of the world and everything. And when we've had to step in, legitimately step in to pretty much give order to the world, you know, within the last century. But I think having an American Pope in there is just, they'd be like, nope, we're never going to fucking hear the end of these guys if we give them an American Pope, too. Is there going to be a rally of jacked up Dodge Rams that have to take the Pope around?

Like is the Pope Mobile going to have to be jacked up and have an American flag on there? Is the Pope's robe going to have to lose its sleeves? Is he going to have a sleeveless robe for the first time? And a dew rag instead of that giant hat. Yeah, instead of the Pope's hat. Yeah. So there's never been an American. And I believe what I just read was there hasn't been an American among the other.

the more than 260 popes that have held that position. But at the same time, how long have we technically been what we would consider Americans? 3,700 years. Yeah, I guess three in some chance. Well, not even three. No, it'll be, yeah, 20076 will be our, what do they call it? 2026 will be 250 years. Yeah, and then what do they call it?

Is it tricentennial? I think so. Yeah. So, but I mean, I guess that makes sense. We're not going to make it to have to worry about what to call it. We're still not going to make it by the tri-centennial. I'm not too concerned about it. I've got to run to the bathroom real quick.

Okay. All right, and we're back. All right. Jumping back into Church of Satan. So at this point, after he joins the circus, was it, what, 48? He actually starts playing his, he wasn't still playing the organ at this point. He kind of branched out to play a whole bunch of different instruments. Pianos, guitars.

But he didn't really care where he played it kind of seemed like because he starts playing in strip clubs. And this is one of the... This is bigger than the, my dick is so big that I'm embarrassed by it, rumor or point of the story. Yeah. He had a relationship or slept with Marilyn Monroe. So he would go around and play the music at the strip clubs while the ladies were dancing. And apparently before Marilyn Monroe was like a big actress and hit it big and became the famous icon that she was. she was stripping in theaters in Southern California in L.A.

And she was stripping in a place called the Mayan Theater. Do you think that, so strip clubs were kind of born out of burlesh shows, right? That's just kind of the natural progression that it went to. Yeah, that's the evolution, it seems like. So in 1948, do you think that, like, because with burlese shows, you would go, and with the burlesh shows, it was more of like a theater show. Like there was the stage, not like you're thinking of a strip club, but an actual theater stage.

Yeah. Kind of like, what was the big one that came, that was really, really popular within the last like 20 years Chicago. Remember the movie Chicago that came up? And it was based on like the Broadway play and it was the real, it was the burlesque heavy story or that's all it was burlesque. And do you think like it kind of started merging over to, I don't know, when do you think it started becoming more of the,

because this is right after World War II, all these guys coming back. I wonder when it like made its transition into less of the like theater artsy type stuff and more of just like the fucking lap dances and dollar bills and stuff. I think it was always on the verge of what it was. Like if you had a- I'm just trying to picture Marilyn Monroe in like a CDS like strip club. Apparently Marilyn Monroe or an organ or something.

She was like very clinically depressed and like kind of a dirty person. And I guess there was like a biography or something that came out that like she would eat in her bed and then when she would fall asleep, she would just push the dishes under the covers. And like when she was Dayton Kennedy, he like had to tell her to shower because she would go like a week without showering. So she...

When you're that pretty, maybe all the other stuff just falls to the wayside. But you could see some of those feelings probably being born out of stripping before you were big and you came from a place where it wasn't always the best situation. I mean, here's the thing too. Like you put people on. a pedestal. You don't realize that like, regardless of their status, that that person is a person and being a person, you're not immune to all of the shit that gets in your head and makes you

dislike yourself or dislike other things. And especially like, I don't know, with as much fame as she like skyrocketed to to become the sex symbol, like the original sex symbol. God, I can't imagine what that pressure would be like, especially considering that you're famous for your looks. So to maintain that? Well, the world kind of got a peek into it. I didn't care for it at all, but I think the world got a peek into it during the Johnny Depp Amber Heard thing.

Yeah. You saw stars that you've put on pedestals and that you still support and back blindly. People do, not us, but people do. And you got to see that, like, oh, they're just, just like us. They're vindictive. They're shitheads. They do terrible things to people and toxic relationships. That was just a... That was basically just a case of who's the bigger shithead.

And here's the deal. Like, I do, like... I'm not saying Johnny Deft's a sane or anything like that, but she was fucking crazy. Well, they're both bad people. They are. And here's the other thing, too, though, is you got to kind of, like, see, even from a... They're like, oh, these people are kind of kind of shitty people, but you also got to see it from a

standpoint of, like, oh, Johnny Deft's kind of just like a normal dude, like, she was super hot and he was willing to go ahead and overlook the crazy because she was like super hot but at a certain point the crazy is just gets too crazy yeah and they i'm sure went back and forth and did bad things to each other to the point to where it got to where it got to it just to me it seems like it's just like the perfect screenshot into somebody's life who you put on a pedestal and you see like oh i've had a toxic relationship too we didn't go this far but i've had a toxic relationship too. So the story is he hooked up with Marilyn Monroe, but that's a load of horse shit.

Yeah. Mayan Theater said that they had no records of Monroe stripping there, even though she did strip in certain places. No real records of him ever talking to or anything like that. Friends of Maryland have said they never hooked up. They were never around each other, really. They didn't know each other. They would talk occasionally if they would see each other, but it wasn't anything close.

to what he said. Well, fresh off, well, I guess not fresh off his tort affair with Marilyn Monroe. In 1950, he meets and marries Carol Lansing. And so she's 15 at this time. At the ripe old age of 15. 15, which in the 50s, I know that that was probably commonplace. I don't like to imagine it's commonplace because a 15-year-old's brain is fucking mush. There's a time reading this where a lot of the history that we go through and you see numbers like 15, was the material change in like statutory rape just when they created ages of consent? Like, and what drove them to do that?

Because apparently this was like not uncommon back. No, it, at what point, my whole outlook on it is, at what point did people come to realization that 15-year-olds are stupid? And that like, decisions of this nature cannot be made. by someone who's stupid. And even 18, man, at 18, I understand there has to be a legal age of consent. I get it. What I'm just saying is that, like, you're still pretty dumb at 18.

I was pretty dumb in 18, and I know a lot of, or I knew a lot of 18-year-olds, and they were all stupid. But at this point, apparently, and who's to say even at this point, that it was, you know, Carol might have been like, oh, yeah, he's great and everything. and her parents were like, thank God, let's get her out of the house. It could have been. I think it was more him being 20 and her being 15 and him leading like this crazy lifestyle of being a... Like it was exciting and everything.

Yeah, and he was different. I mean, he was into the occult shit at that point. Like, he was looking up incantations and all that. And who's more impressionable than a 15-year-old, right? Absolutely. So... I'm just bummed that we don't ever hear stories that we go in the other way. Oh, like an older, like a 25-year-old woman marrying like a 15-year-old.

boys. Yeah, 15 year old boys got no play from older people back then, it seems like. They didn't have anything of value. You know, 15 years old, you're like, oh, I guess at least she's what, she's impressionable. I can probably get away with shit. And I'm not going to rely on her to really do anything. At 15, you just don't have any game for older women, I guess. Maybe that's it. You're not interested in that at 15. True. You can masturbate. True. You know how much work it would take for a 15 year old? Well, I guess it still happens these days with teachers and shit, but anyway, she ends up getting pregnant, and Carla, is it, yeah, Carla LeVay is born in 52.

So he at least, thank God, he waits for her to turn 16, maybe early 17 before he knocks her up. Well, and he says, which again, this is where we get into just the minefield of bullshit. He said that he met Carol, fell for, really loved her, and this was right around the time that the career,

and war was kicking off and he didn't want to be drafted. So as they were together, he said that he enrolled in the college of San Francisco and studied photography. And since he was in college, he couldn't be drafted. Was that one of the conditions? Because that didn't occur in World War II. The World War II was, even if you were in college, I mean, the age range in that draft, I think was much bigger too, right?

Yeah. So for Korea, it was probably... And it was a... I didn't think they thought it was going to be a world conflict, so they probably didn't draft a lot. They probably did put those provisions in. Like, my dad didn't get drafted to go to... Vietnam?

Yes. It was Vietnam. Good call on that. Well, I was going to say it could only be career Vietnam in the Vietnam timeframe. And he got a pass because he was playing college football. So since he was at a university in doing something, he didn't have to be drafted. What position did you have played in football? Quarterback.

Hell yeah. He was great. So a quick, very funny story. Before he found out that he wasn't going to get drafted, they had to go through like the physicals. And he used to tell me that they would all have to line up in a line and you'd be standing there in your boxers. and they would tell you to drop your trousers and they would go down the line and give everybody a hernia check

and then after that they would go down the back side of the line and they would check prostate the two hole yeah and he said that he was so weirded out when they came through and did it because he wasn't changing gloves in between when he was going through

and giving everybody the checks he wasn't changing gloves between assholes no no he wasn't changing gloves between the testicular check but then when he turned he put on new gloves but he wasn't doing it going up, did wreck him either. So my dad said... So he changed gloves after the nuts.

Mm-hmm. And then when it came time for the butts, he used the same glove for everybody? Every time. So you would feel weird being the last guy. Oh, yeah. Because you were getting everyone else's nuts on your nuts, but you had to be thankful

because you were the first guy that got the finger up his ass. I'd rather take the clean one in the poop. I would have much rather been the last guy and just been like, just knocked me out of one time. just feel my here's my nuts and here's my butt yeah so my dad wasn't feeling that he's like i'm not doing this like you're not checking my prostate so he said that he got about eight guys away

and fucking threw an elbow into the guy next to him and he's like what was that for he's like fuck you guys like what are we doing here and my dad pushed him again and started just this big scuffle in line and as they were separating it out and everybody got back in line my dad got back in line for the people that had already been done. He said that him and his buddy snuck over to the front of the line where he had already gone through it, didn't it? Your dad was playing chess. Yeah. He wasn't getting those figures of his butt.

I was going to say he was playing butt chess while they were playing butt checkers. Just a brilliant mood to be like, I'm not getting those fingers in my ass. I'm going to start a fight. Yeah, so he ends up enrolling the college of San Francisco. They have no record of him, just bullshit. They have absolutely no student records of him being there, enrollment. records, anything like that, just nothing. So we've already established in this guy's short life and everything that, like,

is there a better word than con man? In this scenario, is that too strong of a term? Do you think at this point, or? I just think he kind of lives in his own universe. And he knows, like, there's a story, and then there's a better story. And he has to build his legacy to try to do what he's trying to do, which I'm sure being in the circus, which I full wholeheartedly believe, in being in the carnival and all that shit.

He saw Carnival Barkers. He saw people that were getting attention for what they were doing. I'm sure that living in that culture gives you almost a skewed. Because you do get to see a weird side of people, I guess. You get to see the people that bring people in for the freak shows and for the carnival acts and all that. So you get to see people that just have this overwhelming confidence that people are drawn to.

And it also doesn't hurt to, like it's pretty obvious that, a 20-year-old marrying a 15-year-old probably had a lot to do with the attention that she was giving him that he needed. So after his stay at College of San Francisco, which didn't happen, he said that he was recruited by the police department to come in and take photos of crime scenes. And he said that that also just further drove all the belief in religion because if there was a god, everything that he was photographing, was just a stark difference because if there is a god and he's supposed to protect people. He was in a profession that was a direct contradiction to a, I guess,

just and fair society ruled by a benevolent, omnipotent god or something. You're taking pictures of people that had just drowned for evidence? It's the most, you know, it's, and it even applies in my situation, too, is that like it's, you know,

if there does exist this God and everything, why does all this shitty people, shitty stuff happen to people that don't have it coming to them and you always get the, well, you know, there's a reason. It's God's plan. He has a plan. I'm like, this fucking plan sucks. Yeah, absolutely.

I felt that exact same way on so many occasions. And when you see war breakout and you see famine, you think, well, if God cares about his people, did they do something so wrong to offend him that he brought a famine on them? Like, did the Irish really piss God off so much that the potato famine happened? Or, like, why did, you know, millions of, like, Russian citizens? from starvation or from cold during World War II. I'm like, they weren't the ones fighting. They didn't start the war.

Like, if you're, you know, if you're going to say that I'm going to go ahead and allow you guys free will, which that seems like that's the cop out rule. That's like the Trump card is, but everyone has free will and they're able to do with it what they want, but then they're going to be judged. So it's like, yeah, that's all well and good. But then like what happens when those people that you're okay with having their, you know, you're blaming their free will on, they start wars and kill millions of people. what did those millions of people do? Like they were impacted. Their lives were then taken by this one person. And I mean, why did God let the Black Plague happen?

Was it his will to reduce the population on the planet? Because if so, and that's what you believe, you should probably be taking overpopulation more seriously now. And if he is able to do those diseases and so like that, why was Genghis Khan allowed to literally wipe out enough people to change the carbon footprint at the planet? To be an ancestor to 11% of Asian people. Like that's, I totally get where that would be.

Unfortunately, also no work records for the police office and was never hired. And of course, the way that he was sneaking into crime scenes after the fact and like just taking fucking pictures. His justification for this was later on when they called him on his bullshit, he says, well, of course they scrub the black post. from their employment records, they don't want to be connected to me. Like, I'm a demonic figure. There's a completely legitimate reason that you're not able to find any of my backstory. Yeah, it's just, there's nothing, like, all you're doing is trying to cover up a lie with a lie and then blame other people for that happening.

And the next part of his police story was they put them on the 800 call line for the police department, which was all the people that were calling about, like, oh, there's a ghost in my house, or oh, we hear a rattle outside. They recognize my talents in the occult. Yeah. So they basically put me in charge of any of the spiritual or supernatural stuff that was being called in. What a coincidence. So he said that he'd go to these houses and he would see like it was just a can that was left up in the attic that was rattling against a wall.

And when he would take him down and show people what it was or like a feral cat that got somewhere, he'd show the people what it was and he saw the disappointment in their face because they really thought that it was something. and then they realize how dumb they are that they were fooled by so this whole time i mean and you got to kind of hand to him at this point it sounds like and we haven't even got to him actually founding the church that's actually getting close to this but you have this guy who is he's basically been at like study his entire it's been like a what am i trying to say like a a character study of people his entire life and he's using all of these things he's seen in the you know burlesh shows in the tent revivals in the circus, in the strip clubs.

And now, you know, working for the police department and taking these calls, he's finding out, it's almost like he's building a checklist of like, okay, people are interested in this. People don't like this. People like this. And then he's almost kind of like keeping track of there's no niche for this kind of stuff. he is the OJ archetype of a narcissist He's pushed his way through society

And seen what gives him the attention that he needs All while knowing that he can inflate his sense of ego With all these different stories That obviously are just not true Just flat out lies But everything makes it sound better And everybody's drawn to him because of it So after he realized that everybody was just really bummed out

When they would find out that it was something practical and non-supernatural related. He really tried to juge it up a lot. He was bringing over spectrometers and different things and telling people, okay, you have to leave this room so I can exercise this demon, get him out of here, and he'd come back and tell the people, like, oh, it was a long fight, but I got the demon out of there.

Everything should be good. That rattle should stop, like, as he was cutting back the tree that was rubbing against the window that they called about. And he noticed that these people were just absolutely happy. Like, they were willing to listen to his stories that he was telling him. So he realized at that point that he had a, the gift of being able to draw people in with these weird, crazy things. And moving on to...

He had a skill and there was obviously now an audience for that skill, yeah. And everybody was hanging on every bit of his word because it is all fantastic. When you hear a story like that, even though you know that it's bullshit, you're still going to watch. I hate magicians. But watching, like, Copperfield do something or like a magic trick like that? you need a very boring life. And I think that that's where if you really break down with the exception of certain people... The 50s would have been boring as fuck too.

I know. But what I'm thinking is that, you know, if you took people that were very involved and invested in these type of like fringe... Or even just religion in general, I guess, but some of the fringe religions, how many people are bored? And because this gives some sense of belonging or excitement in their lives, that's why they try to, you know, they just go whole hog. to it. It's an alley that they have, and they might as well embrace it, because that could just be their thing. Or there's a hole in their lives, and all of a sudden, this seems to come along, and there's just enough in here that they like for it to fill that hole.

He had an empty god hole, and he filled his god hole with fanatical, like, attention-seeking behavior. So this part, I think, is cool, the Black House. The Black House is cool as fuck. and his story, this is like the one story that he told where I was like, I hope this is true. Like this has to be the one that's true. He said that when him and Carol were out looking for a house, he still wasn't making shit for money

because he supposedly was ghost hunting and getting paid for that. He was still playing the organ, and he made up some bullshit about how he played the biggest organ west of the Mississippi for like the city of San Francisco. and so they're going out to look for a house and he's looking at a house across the street but sees this old Victorian-style house that was built forever ago

but it has kind of that dark creepy vibe to it so he said he told the real estate agent that he wanted to go look at that house real estate agent goes somebody already put an offer in on it they're about to close on it you know it's it's off the market he goes oh let me go talk to the real estate agent

goes over talks to the real estate agent and the real estate agent says that it was owned by just a bunch of different kind of crazy things it was a madam's house in san francisco i wish i could remember her name because she was fairly famous for running a like a bordello basically wasn't he flights right no it was l-a mamey something okay but uh yeah apparently it was an old brothel and she said the real estate agent said that it's like you don't say Yeah. The real estate agent said that it had like all these secret passageways in it. And he was really cool and into that for like sneaking guests in and out to different rooms.

And it had all these magical hidden rooms. So he tells her, I want to practice black magic in here. I want this house. You go and tell those people that you want to sell it to me. And he said that the real estate is like, oh gosh, you're going to use this house exactly the way that it's supposed to be. I'll go talk to him. I'll get that. I'll make that happen for you.

So they end up getting the black house. Well, unfortunately, truth is his parents, Michael and Gertrude, had purchased the house and then given it to him as a gift. So not a lot of lure to that. And not only that, he built all the tunnels and all the other shit. It was never the madam's house. There was never any sort of special things about an additional Victorian house. But what sounds better? Yeah.

The first story sounds way better. That's what I'm saying. I wish that it was true because this place would be just rocking. It's crazy to see. Is it still standing right now? No, they took it down. It's a duplex now. They did.

Because it was, it's cool if you like Google the picture, just Google like the black house, church of Satan or whatever. But when they do show pictures of it, it looks like, have you ever seen like when they build a subdivision? And like you can tell the people that lived there previously or not previously, but that didn't take the offer for their land. Yeah. So you just see a really nice subdivision surrounded like an old farmhouse or something. That's what it reminds me of. So you have like this black Victorian style house. house.

Yeah. But then on each side of it are these white like apartment buildings. After they bought it, he went through and painted it all completely black himself. Did you ever, you probably never saw it. Are you familiar with the movie up? No. It's the one with the old guy and he floats in the house with the balloons. It's a kid's movie.

Is that the one where they ripped the Charlie scene from and always sunny in Philadelphia, where they do the animated Charlie. That's exactly what it is with Charlie and the waitress. Yeah. Yes. So like the beginning of the movie they say is supposed to be like the saddest of any like Disney movie. Basically, it shows the guy's life when he meets, like when he was really young, he meets a girl.

And then they grow up together. They fall in love. Both of them want to go on adventures. And then it shows them like living their life together and they have a good life. But they're constantly saving up to put, they're saving up for these adventures to go travel. And stuff keeps happening to like the house they bought and everything. Long story short, she ends up passing away, which is like the sad thing. Yeah.

And he's just this old guy living in his house. but the house is surrounded by high rises because he won't sell the land. That's exactly what the image reminds me of. Yeah, and I could see it. It was an old Victorian home where it was just kind of, it stuck out. Everything else around it had progressed,

but for some reason that house just stayed Victorian. Was it the next part the part you're excited about? Yeah, I mean, it's, to me, just the thought of the black house and, like, actually having, like, trap doors and hidden hallways and shit like that, which he did build inside of it. So it actually did have that stuff.

I just wish that it was like an old brothel, old madam's house. The history behind it just seems like it's so much more leaning towards the black magic that he wanted, which the story constructed is great. I was referring more to the fact that he had a black leopard named Zoltan. Oh, yeah, he's... That he would take for walks in the neighborhood in San Francisco. And not only that, he said that he had trained Zoltan so well that he would sleep in the same room with Carla at night.

they would sleep in the same bed together and he'd had this cat trained so well which this is what lends me to believe that he did have a little bit more going on in the circus because even if you didn't it would be fucking impossible to train a baby black leopard there's no way one of his buddies smuggled in from like Madagascar

or something like that and ask if he wanted it and he's like yeah I want a tiger this is great this is only going to make my image better oh yeah and yeah like you were talking about he would walk it around he would get people asking a question because you're never going to see a black leopard. Maybe now.

Actually, no, because it's illegal, but you're never going to see a black leopard in San Francisco out walking around. That's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. I've seen When Animals Attack videos way too many times to know that this was a good idea. Well, and supposedly, I don't remember if it was Zoltan or his buddy that's coming up,

but Carla had a fairly large scratch along her back from a cat claw, like a big old scar from a time when things probably got a little bit too real. but that'll happen Trained his cat Yeah apparently he didn't train it that well So after that happens In the early 60s

Anton starts bringing people into What he called the Magic Circle And there were basically like Fireside chats that he would have On Friday and Saturday nights with all these people Because he is really starting to grow Like a little following Like it's not a lot of people

Like it's still just like a Saturday night dinner party It was a weird like Almost like weird little TED talks. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, there were TED talks. They were ton talks. And those people formed something called the Magic Circle and they would wear black robes and they had these like buttons that they would wear and it was like two bats and a devil or something like that and the devil horns. And when you pulled it off, it had a trapezoid underneath. And so they became known as the order of the trapezoid, which later on became like the hierarchy inside the church of

Satan. became like their what would you consider like their board of directors or something if you had to compare to something like their high council is basically high council yeah exactly um and this this one i feel like there is enough to make it true which is gross to say the least but one of the friday night seminars they had they did it about uh cannibalism and i think it was like whatever it is when you like study werewolves? Like lycanthropy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lichenthropy is I think what the medical term for being a werewolf is or having vampirism would be like but I think lycanthropy but yeah, I guess that's what the study would be too.

That is what it is because that's what the word sounded like. So he was having this talk about cannibalism and that night they served a human thigh to the group and I would immediately call bullshit on that

but one of the people in the group was a physician from Berkeley who had attained the thigh for him to eat so I'm more than willing to bet that they really ate human meat at that point in time and there were people that talked about it like the way that they described it was they said it felt like a mix between like pork and chicken as to where it was a little bit fibrous like a pork chop

but still had a little bit of the sweetness to it, which I've never wanted to know what human makes taste like. This is like the scene, the first scene straight out of the Red Dragon. Did you see that one with him? Where Panvel Lecter is serving. He kills the member of the orchestra. And then I'm trying to think what he serves, what he makes. He takes something.

I'm trying to remember what he takes out of the guy to kill him. But then he serves it to the entire, like, board of directors for, like, the orchestra. Wasn't it his liver? It might have been. He did something to it. He made it into, like, their... appetizer or what they're there what is this amuzbush he's like if i tell you you wouldn't try it yeah i i 100% believe that since the people knew that it was fucking human thigh he he told them

he let them know they had um fried bananas and plantains the side for it because it was a like a traditional dish in the culture of i want to say it was like a place in the west indies or new guinea or something where they did do cannibalism There's an island still that's not, it's like, forbidden or prohibited to go to by like all the world's government. What is it? India. It's the Centalese Island. Yep.

Cool. I would love to do something on them, but I don't know if there's enough history on them. Like, we just don't know. They don't know because everybody that lands there to try to do anything. Dyes. It's a fucking spear. Yeah. Those folks still throw spears at like planes that get too close in helicopters and shit.

Yeah, I'm willing to believe. that that one is true. And the fact that it's probably the grossest thing on the board probably has to be true. What is there to say about that? I mean, it's it's cannibalism. Like, that's crazy. That's, to me, all the other shit that he's talked about and that he's done, like the baptism stuff that we'll talk about, child's play.

Cannibalism, it's a road too far for me. Yeah, that's, yeah, you... Just never, ever something that you would ever want to come across. Man, that seems like he missed some steps. Like you go like, hey, by the way, oh, I've got you guys these robes and these pens. And on the menu tonight, we'll be having thigh. Thigh of human. At the same time, though, once that gets out, like the people that are in this group, there's police in this group.

There are. That's what the weirdest thing was is there were like some socialites in this group. There was a duchess in there? Yeah, there were people that like, this just proved to you how good of a salesman he was or how, I guess, everybody, regardless of statutes. or social standing, people can be gullible and be convinced of shit. One of the shows that I watched on him made reference to a dildo manufacturer

being in the group. Think about how crazy, odd, and niche that is that when the guy saw it, he's like, we have to put that in the biography. Like, this guy was a dildo manufacturer. What are you just like... Is there a more technical term for that? No, but you're not, like,

you're the guy that has to make the dildos. You're the guy that has to sell the dildoes. dildos. You're the guy that has to coordinate the transportation for the dildos, which kind of fits in, because Anton was really just kind of a big dildo himself. Do you remember the show Real Sex? It was on, like, HBO? And it wasn't just porn. What it was

is it was about, like, niche porn stuff. Like, it would show you, like, it would be like, hey, we're doing a swingers party on this one. It would, like, explain to you how swingers parties work. One of the episodes that I remember from, Fuckman, this was on, like, HBO, so if you had premium channels, it was just

on later. I think I was maybe like 13. or 14 when I was watching this and it was explaining how they make dildos and it explained how like they get the mold for it and everything and basically these dudes have to straddle looks like this saddle that has like a cutout in it kind of like a you shape

where they could sit inside it and then they just packed and the saddle was hollow and so you'd get your dick hard and the saddle was basically packed with plaster and you'd get your hard dick in there and you'd have to maintain a bone or long enough for the plaster to set and then you'd have to like kind of back yourself up and kind of pop up

soft and wriggle out. Yeah. And then after that, they would then use that mold and just fill it with whatever they make silicone or rubber. What a life, dude. Yeah.

I was thinking about how shitty that job would be and I thought, you just made a cast of your penis that's going to go out to tens of thousands of women that are all going to be pleasuring themselves with your penis.

That's a proud penis moment at that point. You're living the high life. I'm sure you probably don't get paid much. That's a feather in your cap. Sent at a bar one night and being like, you look like the kind of woman that owns a collection of dildos.

Do you happen to have this one? This guy. Hey, have you ever heard of the Thrustmaster 3000? I'm Thrustmaster. Just such a weird thing to throw into a documentary, and you kind of need that, because it was just enough for me to pause it and be like, that guy didn't just say Dildo Manufacturer.

You got to put out your phone at that point and be like, I got to check my sources on this. I hope they called him King Dong. King Dong for a Dildo Manufacturing. They would have some title for, like, King Dundon. that would sound like high penis priest or some shit like that. Well, back in and then kind of going back to it. So his personal life, so in 59, right before he starts the magic circle,

that's when he meets Diane, right? Yep. Diane Haggarder. And she was like a well-to-do, like, daughter of a, or she was like a socialite herself. Yeah, but she was still 17 when they met. Yes. So she was 20. Her family was well-to-do.

So, again, 17 at the time. Thank God he's going a little older now. Well, you know why he did it. He's 29. That, and he probably didn't like pussy that was 25 years old. So he had to continue to... Because it's smart. It's smarter.

It's able to call bullshit easier. 25 years old, it was probably gross and stretched and had a kid. He wanted to jump back into it. So 1960, divorces Carol. Which is probably a good thing for her. I didn't see a whole lot in documentaries or just any sort of things from her. There's a few things, but nothing like she wasn't ever on tape doing... Like any interviews or anything like that.

Do you think that it's one of those situations like, and this guy throws me off because he's so fucking weird, I think, but you hear nothing but good things. But I can't tell the good things you hear about him are people saying good things because they're trying to ingratiate and they don't want to burn bridges. But Tom Cruise, man, like you look at like the women that he marries. And then as soon as they're done marrying him ever,

they tend to go and be like happier. They come out and they're like, oh, thank God I'm not in that shit. anymore. Yeah, because they don't have to listen to some little 5-4 guy pop off the mouth all the time. No, or get audited or like be, because you know that those women like, I can't wait to do the Scientology episode. Yeah.

Because it's fucking crazy. But I think that's kind of the same deal as maybe like, hopefully she went on to have a somewhat normal. As normal as you can have after eating a human thigh. Like that's, I don't know where you go from there. So after he establishes like the magic circle order the trapezoid, at what point does it kind of come into play where, you know, the crowd is growing once he's established this and everything.

Was it, what was it in 64? He gets a Nubian tiger. Yeah. And this was the one in 64 with the Nupian tiger. He, the thing was just wild as shit. Like it was. at all these parties Is Zoltan still in the picture here?

I believe Zoltan was still alive. I think he just had a chance to get this Nubian tiger. And the Nubian tiger's name was, what is it? Tagari. Yes, yes, that's right, Tegari. Tegari was a little bit more of a free spirit. He was like, I was expecting a tiger,

and I already picked out a name, but now I have a lion. Ligari sounds way worse than Tegari. God damn, I got to stay with the tiger name. Yeah, Tagore was a little bit more of a free spirit. He liked to roam. He liked to get out of the house. And fun fact, Anton LeVay is actually the reason why in San Francisco it is illegal to own a pet lion.

So he got out out out. I guess he lives on. Yeah, true. That'll live on forever, hopefully. It got out one night terrorized a bunch of people in the neighborhood. And is it terrorized them all in the neighborhood? They had to call the police, which I don't know what would be so terrorizing about a nubian lion walking down. on the street in your neighborhood.

Everybody's got to be up their ass and has to call the police when there's a wild fucking animal that can kill something sitting out on the front steps. It's Toronto up the street. Yeah. So luckily for them, they got to go to the zoo, which I'm sure the zoo was much more fun than the black house. Oh, I thought I would figure in that situation that tiger was dead. No, or lion.

He turned them both over voluntarily to the zoo. Yeah, so decent guy there. Real redeeming quality. That was his redeeming moment. back before he ended up getting Tagari in 63 the second child for him was born her name was Zena

and she was born right around when the crowd started to like swell outside of the black house where there were people coming to see him for these seminars where they would have to leave the front door open and all the windows open because they couldn't put any more people inside the house for him

so he's definitely getting way way more of a following at that I'm wondering at this point are people, because this is, he doesn't have a job. This is his job at this point, right? Yeah, he's playing the pipe organ. They said at one point he was making like 30 bucks a week, which back then I don't think 30 bucks a week and shit. I mean, and I guess since the house was bought by his parents, but I'm, I'm assuming

at some point if he's still continuing to do this, he's receiving some type of donations, tithing, some type of compensation from his, what would you, what would you call him his followers? Yeah, I guess. I would say his congregation since it's a church. Probably most of it was the younger, less beaten down wife that was still working her jobs as he was playing make-believe in the front room and playing a pipe organ somewhere that she had no idea about. He was still playing in strip clubs too. Like he was still playing instruments for strip clubs.

So it wasn't like that ever got out of his system. So how on the one being bullshit, 10 being believable, where do you stand on the fact that he had a fling with James Mannsfield? I didn't know who she was, and so I had to look her up and see her. Musician, right? No, like a starlet. Okay. Her star was kind of beginning to fade around that time.

She'd been in a couple decent movies, and she was sort of looking to try to tap into, like, a younger fan base. And so... What better way. Yeah. Well, and at this point, like, the cannibalism thing has gotten out. Everybody's starting to talk around San Francisco. He has a buzz. Like, he's not being written about- On the front page yet.

But yeah. He's starting to become larger than life at this point. Which for him was a good thing because he wanted that. Like, that was his narcissistic abilities to want to be seen by everybody. And that's why the shit was getting crazy. I mean, I can understand maybe owning one lion is like a fun pet project or something, but two? Two is just flashy.

Like, you're just showing off. A black leopard is completely different. I mean, come on. Yeah. You're not seeing a black leopard very much, but you're not seeing a newbie and tiger. Is a newbie and tiger a black tiger? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

I know that. I don't think it is. I know there's genres of things called Nubian that are not white. I just think, no, but I think it is it's the region. Okay. So in 67, Jane Mansfield. Why can I say her name? Jane Mansfield.

Jane Mansfield. She ends up dying in 67 in a car accident, so that's, it's like pretty well known as far as if you know James, oh, Jesus, Jane, I keep on to say James Mansfields. James Headfield.

James Headfield died in a car accident, 67. And when was it discovered that Anton had cursed her boyfriend? And did the boyfriend die in the car crash? Yeah. Okay. So, so she was an innocent bystandard of Anton's curse. This is,

again, the way that the man tells this story is just a fucking chef's kiss. Like, it's so beautifully. I've had to just suspend my hate for how much he lies, just to appreciate the kind of yarns that he spins. So, Jane's boyfriend was the lawyer that was trying to settle her divorce case. I forgot his name.

He died, so we probably should have found that out, but fuck him, whatever. He apparently had this coming from Anton's beliefs. And he was very controlling over Jane. He didn't like how close that Jane and Anton were getting. And Anton said that they carried on flings and were fucking and all that, which nobody really said was happening. There was just a lot of photo walks that were happening. And they were talking.

So one day she shows up at the Black House and the boyfriend goes into one of the altar rooms and he lights a candle and starts fucking dancing around in front of the altar. Anton or is the boyfriend? The boyfriend. And like making fun of Anton and like, Oh, I curse you. I curse you. I curse you.

Anton's pissed. Walks into the room. Grabs the candle out of his hand. He goes, he shouldn't have done that. The guy goes, oh, what's wrong? And he goes, you lit the candle of destruction. And I just hope that I put it out in time before anything bad happens. You guys are like, bullshit, dude, shut up.

I'm bored. Me and the girlfriend are getting out of here. I've had enough of it. Anton was so pissed that. that when the guy called to apologize, he told him that he had put a curse on him, that he will die within the next X amount of years. I think it was like five years or something like that.

Have you seen this picture of Anton and Jane Mansfield? No. I've seen pictures of them. Yeah, she was cute. She had a little bit going on for her. The picture I'm looking at. So Jane Mansfield, she was, you know, she would be who I would accept.

expect if you're talking about a starlit in like the 50s and 60s. Yeah, which is what she was. She's like bleach blonde, um, smaller and everything like that. She's pretty. Yeah. But the picture is she's sitting there and behind her is,

um, Anton in a, like a robe and a cloak and he's like spreading his arms out like a bat like fucking Batman. Yeah. And his hood has a devil horns on it and everything. And he's wearing like a pendant. I think it's a five star.

So it's the pentagram. Pentagram. Pendant. it's literally just what it looks completely like you'd be like hey what if

do you have like a robe with devil horns if you could put that on and then I think that would make the picture a lot better well and she's in all white too isn't she so there's that hard

I just had a realization do you know who Cobra Tate is uh uh I'm trying to think of what his real name is Andrew Andrew Tate okay so he's this fucking douchebag

and he's been kind of going around social. Oh, is he that brother that just has crazy out of whack views about like abortion and sex? Yes, that he thinks women should be subservient and that if a man is dating a woman, his, one of his things was that like if he's dating a woman and she were to have like an only fan, that he is, that the guy dating her is, I fucking keep forgetting, like, words I want to say, he is owed. or he has a claim to part of her proceeds. A stake in it.

A stake in it because her body belongs to him as his girlfriend. So if she's exploiting that, she's also exploiting it. And he's losing value on it. So he needs to be compensated. He's got these just completely misogynistic, like, almost laughably. Like, you got to wonder if it's a fucking play. Well, so the one that I heard from him was he said that, um, Men were supposed to be able to have many women because in the Bible, everybody had multiple wives, and the women didn't ever have multiple husbands.

And it goes against— So there's religious precedents or some shit. It goes against the Bible for a woman to have many suitors because if she gets pregnant, then there's the question of who the father is. But if he were to have many women and he got somebody pregnant, there would be no question as to whose child that was. Like completely ignoring genetics tests. You could have just been describing, yeah. You could have been just describing something I would have believed that this Anton Levega came out with. But the thing is, is so they look similar in their looks.

But the other thing, too, is it's kind of the same deal. Because I think he has some type of, he calls it a college or a university or a think tank, where he charges people to be able to get, like, his advice on these seminars. What a bunch of fucking idiots. So, but he has this, like, fucking following of these gollable ass fucking people. So, I mean, I guess this just happens in generations. There's a fucking asshole. Snake oil sales been born every day.

Generation, man. Or multiple ones. Yeah, that's a crazy thing. So after he tells him that there's a curse on him, the guy's like, whatever, dude. You're like a fake magician. Like, let's calm down on the curse talk. And Anton says one night, also just a very weird detail that he would, make up this lie because it seems like a very

suss detail that you would put in. He said that he was up one night cutting pictures of himself out of a magazine for a scrapbook. A satanic scrapbook's a wild thought to have. He said that when he cut the picture out,

he turned around to see on the backside of it that he had actually cut off Jane Mansfield's head from her side of the picture in the magazine. And it was straight at the neck. he said the next night he gets a call informing him that Jane's man or Jane man god now I'm doing it Jane Mansfield died in a car crash along with her boyfriend who he said that he cast the spell on

and the coroner's report he said told them that Jane Mansfield died from decapitation so he said that he believes that him ceremonially accidentally cutting her head off in the picture is why she was decapitated. Yeah, it says that her, it's already a even fucking darker, I guess, on you. So, yeah, she suffered a crushed skull and a partially separate, a partial separation of her cranium, which we're splitting hairs here, but they're saying which is more akin to scalping than total decapitation. But again, Anton here, he's a prophet or a fucking witch or a wizard. So, but we're going to give him a little bit of leeway.

Well, I would until it came out that the first time anybody had ever heard this story about the curse or anything was after the two other people that were involved in this story. It actually died. So there's a good chance that he played that up to maybe try to show his power. Even though his friend died, he still was like taking that opportunity to be like, I called this. That would get you a few newspaper headlines. Absolutely. Making that claim. Yeah, you would jump to the front page if it's like man who curses other man ends up killing best friends. and decapitating her by cutting her head out of a magazine.

I mean, just crazy shit. We get the official designation. So he creates the Church of Satan. And it was on, was it, it's Walpurges? Valpergus not. Valpergus not. Which, again, I wrote it the way that it sounds. But somehow it was an old pagan tradition.

It's just so garbled and gumbled up and just goofy shit because. It was like a pagan festival. Here's the, just kind of the Clifno version of it. So basically what it is is it's also known as St. Volperga's Eve. And what it was is it's celebrated on the night of April 30th and the day of May 1st. It's a feast commemorating the canonization of St. Walperga and the movement of her relics to, I thought this thing was a Christian.

It was something, oh, here we go. Christians prayed to God through an intercession of St. Walperga in order to protect themselves from witchcraft. So they somehow, and it could have very well been to get into the victors, right, you know, write the history. How many, you know, this is just another example, but how many pagan holidays were converted or turned into, had their kind of... All of them. Yeah, had their lore rewritten to serve a... Christ. Because wasn't, so all Hallows Eve, Halloween, but

I'm not sure Christians are too crazy about Halloween. No. But there's also like a whole bunch of, I don't know a whole bunch, but there's other. Christmas is the winter solstice. That's right. That's why it was around there, even though we don't know when Jesus was actually bored and they just put it on that day. Excuse me. Yeah, there's harvest festivals,

different things like that. We're all just basically stolen from the pagans to try to say, hey, we know you got this religion. Our religion's not that different. We still celebrate holidays. We just noticed something different. You guys call it that. We call it this.

But since you guys are going to come over to us, you got to start calling it this too. Yeah. I mean, this whole idea of like them having these festivals and shit like that, Pagans had festivals all the time. There was no. Yeah. It was just what they did. Changing of the seasons, harvest time.

Equinoxes. Everything. Anytime the moon was different. Yeah. Oh, fuck, moon's different. Full moon. Yeah. Yeah.

Get the bonfire going and let's kill a pig and grill it. So he ends up. So the Church of Satan and the Church of Indulgence and Church of, is it abstinence? So what's kind of the differentiation between these? He created the Church of Satan. Excuse me. Oh, that was a dry one. On Valpergis, not like you talked about.

And he considered it a Church of Indulgence. Jesus, over a Church of Abstinence. Gotcha. Whereas most modern religions at the time, or the mainstream ones, were churches of abstinence. Still are. Still are, yes. Absolutely still are. He wanted to form the religion, kind of like we were talking about earlier, where you...

God damn it, I needed a drink. I mean, I think he knew at this point that doing all of his, like I was saying, a character study throughout his entire life, is he probably saw, especially when he first started, you know, gathering followers, the Magic Circle, order the trapezoid and everything, he was like, okay, this hasn't taken me long to kind of gather a following. There's obviously a, it's marketing. There's a market for something different than what people are used to. While this church over here is the church of limitations, of abstinence, of behaving yourself, we're still going to do some of that, but we're also going to allow you to indulge in those vices or, you know, give in to your wants or your desires. without the what would be on the other side would be needing repentance or would be sinning.

His thought process was any mind that you give to celebrating a deity or a god or something that was created a long time ago by somebody else that you were just supposed to believe in. He wanted you to focus that energy on yourself. He wanted you to indulge. He wanted you to love the finer things in life. And they didn't have a central deity. No, they believed that they were their own gods, that they could create their own world. And that if you failed, you failed on your own. If you succeeded, you also succeeded on your own.

Which is, which I think lends credence to my point, that the branding is very like, it's not counter to what the church's, I guess, M.O. was. But I feel like the term, you know, anytime you say the term Satan, there's not a, you know, there's not a different meaning behind that. Or Satanism, people are just going to think, well, that's the worship of Satan. So I'm still kind of in this weird area where I'm like, he could have named this something else, but I think that by naming it something different, it wouldn't have accomplished what he wanted to accomplish. I think he picked this name purposely because, again, it had this connotation that it was the opposite of what most people would.

Just a direct juxtaposition. You had it. Yeah, it was coming. I'm not going to go with one of these. My mouth is very dry. That caught mouth after the last one was rough. But, yeah, it was basically to indulge meant to fulfill your own fantasies because nobody else is going to do it for you. And, I mean, that's something that I do sort of agree with.

I mean, being told that abstaining from things to get you into heaven is basically just a form of guilt. tripping you into not doing fun things. And I'm not saying that I indulge in orgies or anything like that, but the guilt that goes along with it from knowing that you're not supposed to do it to just accepting like, this is just something in life that happens and that you do is a very freeing feeling. Like you're, when you feel like you can stretch your wings and do these things without the bans of guilt that you would feel from having to hear a religion tell you, well, this is wrong, or you're a sinner or something like that.

I mean, like we were talking about earlier, if you're in a room, and some guys like, hey, how many of you guys jerk off in here? You know that probably 99% of that room will go to the exact last place that they had done it, and that will be the thought in their head. And then when you drive it home and you say, that's a sin against God. That's something he doesn't approve of. You're just immediately going to feel like the biggest piece of shit ever. It's just control.

And I don't see why, I don't know. Like, I'm, I don't know. know, I don't know how to classify or even kind of describe like my outlook on it sometimes is that I think in order to be religious, maybe you have to have something in your life happens that pushes you over to that side. And then maybe you find something in that. And I, and I think that religion has served a lot of people well. Well, because it's given some people structure and hope. And hope and everything. So to that end, I think that it's important to have that. But like with everything, it's moderation is key. Yeah. And when you get too far into it, that's when you get extremism.

And people can say, well, that's rare and everything like that. Well, it's rare if it happens infrequently. And it's rare if it doesn't repeat itself, I think, is the biggest thing. But in different ways you see extremism happening. All you have to do is like, and this goes way back in history, but look back at the Crusades. You had an entire war for how long, and it's still going on right now. But you literally have a constant war that's been going on because you have people that have gotten too deep into it, that instead of realizing that you're literally fighting against somebody who just lives somewhere different than you, and because of the fact they lived somewhere different than you, they grew up with a different set of beliefs that were prominent in that area,

you somehow think that that person is evil or something like that. Well, that goes back to the good and the bad. It does, and it's the same type of thing where you would hear about, so like I feel like I relate everything to World War II, but I feel like there's a lot of merit in that, is that you had these examples of on the front lines, and I want to say it was between German and allied troops. There was a time around Christmas one year, and I want to say, don't quote me,

but it might have been around the Bastone Battle of the Bulge. It might have been a little bit before that, actually, because at that point, Battle of the Bulge was when the Germans were really desperate and trying to counterattack. Wasn't there armist this day? No, it was Christmas Eve, and it didn't happen all over, but what happened is, like you had, like, the Allied troops in their trenches in one tree line, the Germans over across this field, and they heard the German singing Christmas carols. And then somehow that evolved into one person holding up a white flag and they all met out in the middle and exchanged gifts.

And it was, and then I think they might have played soccer or football or something like that. But you have some people when they're interviewing like, I don't hear a lot about it for more current wars and everything. but during a lot of these interviews, you'll be like, this was the first time that we realized that these were just people.

They were humans too. And that regardless of, you know, what they believed in, everything like that, maybe some of these people didn't want to be fighting, but they had to fight because that was their homeland and their government was telling them to fight and everything, but they realized that they're just people. And like, if more people would just, like,

not judge off of an ideology or anything like that, that's the biggest problem is people just have snap decisions and I'm guilty of it too yeah I mean for me it's something that every once in a while I get a little man cry out when I think about and for me it's just like when you think about the Iraq war

and obviously taking Saddam out was probably necessary was at the time to do it probably not but if not then when when they were over fighting in Iraq and they would be in these cities and they would run into civilians. I mean, pretty much from what we heard over here,

stateside, was that we were at war with Iraq. We weren't at war with Iraq. We weren't at war with the Iraqi people. They had a completely different belief. They were a completely different religion. But those people almost wanted us to be there because they were hoping for liberation. But we didn't hear so much about that back here.

No. It was the war. It was the war on Iraq, which automatically. makes you think, oh, we're at war with the entire country and everybody in it. Yeah. There were so many innocent bystanders, and you see it happening in Ukraine now where there's people that are taking up arms to fight against a bad regime because they want freedom.

That's all the Iraqi people wanted. They weren't bad people, but we never heard about the good stories. A lot of them were just in a horrible position where they were scared. And it just so happened to be that the worst person to be in a position of power was. was in the position of power there. And they couldn't do anything about it. It's not like they could, you know, create an uprising or anything like that to take back their government.

That time had passed, they didn't have the strength from a military standpoint or even from a, you know, insurgency standpoint to do that. Those people are whirled away and they're just like us, except for the biggest difference is they were having a war fought inside their cities. I mean, we talked about this. One of the times we talked about World War II, which is a lot. but I feel like if the script was flipped and we were fighting in our cities, you would hope that if we had something going on so bad that there was another country that was trying to liberate us,

you almost hope that their stories back home were of how welcoming the people were that you were trying to liberate them. It took us a long time to hear about how sweet the Iraqi people were and to see that. And you hear the stories about like soldiers coming back over and working tirelessly to try. try to go ahead and get translators and guys that work with them. In Afghanistan, exactly. Over to the United States because these people were simply people trying to help us and they're, and with danger to their families and lives and pulling over there.

We were fighting Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. We weren't fighting the Afghan-y people. But because we were fighting in Afghanistan, everyone thought we were fighting. It was, you know, it's just, it's individuals doing shitty things. And then the people that just so happened to live geographically close to them tend to take the brunt of the reprisal. All right. So anyway, getting back, this leads into a lot of tangents.

Yeah, okay, but just to get it out, if you're religious and you're still listening, I want to start by saying, I'm sorry. This isn't meant to bash your religion. Whatever you believe in, you believe in, and that's great. We're not trying to change anybody's minds. I hope that as an open-minded person listening to this podcast, you kind of know that it's okay to question things. That's honestly what we're doing during this entire pipeline.

So we're talking about something and then just thrown out questions that pop into our heads at each other. And if you are religious and you live by that way and you follow that religion, that's fucking great. I'll be the first one to tell you that you're a stronger man than me. You're a stronger woman than me. You are that regimented that you can handle that kind of a lifestyle. And if it works for you, it works for you. There's a quote from

And it's a stupid place To get a quote from But it's kind of made sense to me Is do you remember the DaVinci Code? So the movie The Tom Hanks So I'm trying to remember It's someone asks him

It might not be Divincchia Code I think it's angels and demons It's the one where he's at Vatican City But he asks him They're like His name's Robert Langdon He's like Mr. Langdon

Are you religious And he looks at him He goes faith is something that I have not like had the opportunity or had the good fortune to encounter in my life. And I think that's what it boils down to.

And again, this isn't, you know, I know it sounds like we're bashing religions. I'm just bringing up questions that I have about it and things that I don't understand. So part of it is borne out of it, but not understanding. But I think that it also does come into play where faith is something that you either have or you don't have.

and a lot of times what happens is you've had something happened to you to inspire faith or you've had something happened to you to remove that faith. Yeah, that's a very good way to put it. And so that's just where I'm at is I just am not in a position where I've had something happened to me. I have had good things have to me. Wonderful things. But I feel like those things, I'm not saying I earn them or anything like that and I do have

great appreciation for those things. I just don't feel like those things were of a divine. cause or reaction. Like I said if you're listening to us, if you're spending your precious time listening to us bullshit about this stuff,

we care about you. We thank you. We're happy to hear it. We support you in all your religious endeavors. But with that, just like everything else comes a caveat in life where just don't push it on other people. You're fine the way you are and we accept it, but

that's you. That may not be the next guy down the street and you just have to appreciate them for what they are and that's the only way to make a better world. All right. Back to Anton. So 67, actually he performs the, and at this point, he's the high priest. Now we're getting into the fun stuff. So he is the high priest of this, of the church. So 67, he performs the first black wedding. I'm not going to lie, the names of their stuff are cool. Bad as well. Yes. So they did get that right. I'm still not crazy about the, I think it was misbranding on the actual name of the church, but I do like the fact that they're steering into it with a lot of these cool things. Well, yeah, they call it a satanic wedding or a black wedding.

So the black wedding is between John Raymond and Judith Case. Reporters actually covered this. So I'm not saying that this was mainstream media, but at this point there was enough of a bus around it that they actually... This, as far as not being mainstream media, this was the most covered event in California since the California world's... Fair. Seriously? Yes. There were that many reporters there. Jesus. That it was that covered. Imagine

being able to go up against the World's Fair for coverage. Can you imagine what that would do to someone's ego who already has a giant fucking ego? Yeah, and a giant fucking cock. So I don't even know how he did the wedding because he probably had such a giant boner when he was looking out

at all these cameras. He's like, hold on. He's like, hold on. I'm getting lightheaded. all the blood is rushing to my crotch. Hold on. I can't remember the words with the words. Someone find my tiger. Where's Zoltan?

Where's Zoltan? Where's Zoltan? So, Black Wedding, and the reporters name him the Black Pope. Which, again, a sick name. Like, Black Pope is, I'm not a metal guy, but that is metal. Like, that's sick.

And this was just the floodgates. And this next part, I, it's just weird. And I don't think that it's connected at all. And this is 100% true because it came from both sides. But this might be where the Temple of Satan, the Church of Satan, got itself sort of a not great name. So after the black wedding happens, he starts doing a topless Witches Dance Review at the Black House. And he brings in a little.

A lady named Sharon Tate. I, if that was going on, I might have to go to that. Oh, fuck yeah. Yes. Topless Witches review? Yes. I'm down for a burlesque show. Like, I want the pageantry.

I want the fancieness. I mean, the breasts, at that point, they're still going to be number one, but 1A is still going to be the dance and everything else. I feel like it's going to be wish fulfillment of having the crush on Sarah Dusk Barker back from the OG. SG. Pocus, Pocus. Yeah.

She had a little something going on. Do you think that she looked so. hot because it was like kind of like dirty goth Sarah Jessica Parker but she was also at that point sandwich between I can't Kathy Kathy to Jimmy I think is the name of the one that wrote on the vacuum and then bet midler do you think that's what made Sarah Jessica Parker hot in that or do you think she was legitimately hot because I mean she was that was that was the hottest she ever was it turned into a horse face and sex in the city even back then she was hot I think that like she was she was the slutty sister yeah and if you were that

and we're like, ooh, this is new and exciting. Even that pale skin still had a little aura about it. Part of you was scared and party was like, man, I wish she would take me away. Yeah, she could eat me. Oh, and she was horny all the time because she's like, I want to play with it. Yeah, that was great. She did great in that. Sharon Tate, though, not a Sarah Jessica Parker.

You know who Sharon Tate was? Yeah. The one that got murdered during the Manson murders. No. Wait, which one was Sharon Tate? Sharon Tate was the one doing the murdering. Oh, that's right. She was one of the, okay, she was one of the ones that went to.

Roman Polansky's house. Yep, and who was it that was the girl there? That's what I'm trying to. I don't know why. I love fucking Manson. I don't know why I'm blacking out on this. I really need to watch Once Upon Time in Hollywood.

It's a good one. I haven't watched it yet. Yeah. No, Sharon Tate was the one with Roman Polanski she was the girl she was the one that was pregnant at the time of the Manson murders

oh my god did I write this one? Did you write down the wrong person I swear god okay so were you thinking of it was someone that was involved in the murders is that what you're thinking because we can find out who that is pretty quick yeah oh Susan Atkins huh Susan Atkins

so she was one of the killers What was your nickname? Susan Atkins? Yeah, didn't she have like, because remember like you had texts and you had like they had like, you said Susan Atkins? Yeah, Susan Denise Atkins. Okay, so some of them had like, um, Susan Atkins, a convictor. Okay. So a lot of them during the Manson family, we're jumping all over, but this is awesome to learn too because we're going to do the whole thing on this.

Susan Atkins, all of them had like nicknames within that. but we'll figure that out later. So anyway, she was part of the Tate La Bianca murders. Yep. Okay. That happened at Roman Polansky's house, which also... So was she a member of the church? She was sort of.

I mean, they both kind of pushed back, like, or, wow, Atkins was like, hey, um, yeah, Anton really kind of spun me out into a bad place. And that was sort of how Charles did she say that during the trial? Uh, it was after kind of an interview. Okay. They didn't really, Anton really didn't want this to get out

because this was bad press. Oh yeah. And when he was asked about it, he said that she was just another hate street burnout that I hired because she was hot, basically. So the fact that he's connected to a Manson murder kind of really pushes the whole Satanist thought to another level. Because that was already the big thing about the Manson

with the Summer of Love and all that kind of stuff was that they were a cult. Yeah, there's the Colt. And it was the Manson family. I mean, they absolutely 100% were a cult. So he tried to push himself away from it. He just basically said, yeah, she was just a burnout that I hired. I had nothing else.

She wasn't a member of the church. I don't know if she was or not, but something weird happened there. Zoltan didn't like her. I could tell she was bad from the start. Yeah, maybe that's why we only made her take her top off and dance around. She didn't deserve the church. She wasn't one of our featured dancers. She had to dance in one of the cauldron.

No, and she... In the back. I'm going to jump ahead for a few things where I look at that up. So he does a black baptism. Everything seems to be black here. So black Pope, black wedding, he does a black baptism in 67 to his three-year-old daughter, Zena. Which is also very awesome.

The way that they do their baptisms? Yeah. You're going to have to describe it to me. So he's up at the altar. Oh, God. Yeah, she was definitely in the back row of the dance for you. She's not pretty. You're telling me that Charles Manson didn't attract workers

Yeah, she wasn't a nine That's for sure She was a fucking soft She was a Manson Family 8 probably Manson Family 8th Saw 4 in all of other humanity But when they did it He was dressed in all black

He had his attire on He had the devil horns and everything going She was dressed in this adorable white If you look at the picture She's just She's the cutest kid that you've ever seen Like just smiling and having and waving to the crowd as she's surrounded on this altar.

And that was the other thing about the black wedding was the altar stand, naked woman. So of course you're going to be there for that. Like he was using women as props. Oh, this wasn't like a carving. No. Okay, gotcha. Full on naked broad. So luckily there wasn't one at the baptism.

But his wife was dressed in like a full red dress and red attire. Like it was a very big production. I'm feeling like a kind of a technicolor dream coat with all these colors. I mean, they're Satanic, like red and black. But. Yellow or orange or blue. Can you get some of the pop in there? When he's giving her her baptism, he's saying things like we were talking about earlier,

the juxtaposition of good and bad and the right hand of the Lord and the left hand of the Lord and where Lewis first sat and like we were talking about where Michael sat, instead of a normal baptism where you give them up to the right hand of the Lord, he would say the left hand of the Lord. He actually gave the Lord's Prayer and I wish I had remembered it or looked it up, but it was just a very like every good thing in the Lord's Prayer he had changed to darkness or indulgence or anything like that. He gave her life up to it. It's like he weird out. He weird out it. Pretty much.

He took the anything that he turned in something else. Yeah, the good end of the bad. Bad by Michael Jackson becomes fat. Yeah. The Masters Paradise becomes Amish Paradise. The complete change. God, I hate that guy. The changeover that he had just in the wording of different things.

And he wished her to have a happy life. He wished her to follow her dreams and all these other things that really do sound good. But then there's the other thing mixed in of like giving her life up to the blackness. like to indulge in the indulgence. That's the whole point of like he's cast in a wide net and trying to make that argument that, yeah, we have some maybe off the wall weird shit, but also listen to the other part of the message.

Do you identify with any of our message? Because this might be for you if you identify with any of our message. And there's a lot of this stuff where not all of it, obviously, but there's a lot of this stuff where I read it and I know that you've read it. And you're just going to go, huh, that's a really, go through some stuff here in a second that I'll be like bad idea good idea bad I did good idea um one of the things going back to the creation of the church of Satan on uh Valpergis so did you see the thing about that's when he first shaved his head he ritually yeah so if you guys haven't

already looked up a picture of this guy I'm just going to describe him the best way I can he looks to me like a cross between um what did I say from flash corn what's the guy's name Ming Ming so kind of looks like Ming and almost um like a bald he reminds me of like a character in a Vincent price movie

like he would be like the mortician or something which also comes into play that he used to drive a hearse around that's what was his car was a hearse just the biggest fucking creep man so crazy but yeah so he's bald and he has like

is it it's not a fumat what is it just goate right but like a thin black goate yep but he reminds me of almost what you would look at when full bushy black eyebrows. It reminds me of like a like a Rasputin, like a, what a old Russian czar would have as like their

high priest or or a cult guy. I feel like that would have to be the... Did you hear why he shaved his head? He lost a bet. Yep. He said that it was for the ceremony. It turns out he lost a bet. I don't know what he would have bet that would have caused a shaved head

but yeah, just very odd. So his next big thing that he he did after he baptized Zena, he does the first satanic funeral, which is something to me that is very kind of, like, I feel the guy that he did it for was a naval, he was in the Navy. Okay, that's what I'm, I'm looking at the picture you just sent me. So yeah, they're folding an American flag. So I mean, it's, yeah. Here's a great thing about it is look at the picture. You see the silver-helmeted honor guard

That is required to show up at every single funeral That a military member has Those guys had to be next to the same people in the black robes And the occultists and the Satanus So like you had to be a military member That shows up to all these funerals And they still fired like the salute afterwards If the members were previous military and everything

Yeah, yeah And this guy and his wife he was I forgot his name a good guy military man thank you for your service but yeah

it was like these military guys had to show up and be very peaceful and quiet and respectful and all this while everybody else is dressed in black

and they're talking about the afterlife they all got robes on their pendants yeah it's dudes in military you're standing next to people with pentegrams around their neck

and in this picture just to pinch you guys a little a little mental art so he is he's dressed as Voldemort that's the best way I can describe it

he fucking looks like Voldemort so like yeah after Voldemort gets his black robes and everything and if he did not have the goatee I would think this white might be it looks like he's holding the is he on the wand yeah

yeah it's Voldemort they brought everything out man they everything that they could I'm feeling like this guy I feel like people have borrowed from this guy for looks. Yeah, it's like the whole alien idea at Roswell that the reason why aliens all kind of look alike

is because of the autopsy that happened down there. He's kind of like the first bad guy, like, ooh, we can make some money off this look. Yes. Which I'm sure he copied from other occult members and different things that he saw from the Gothic ages and different things like that. But he really nailed the look

that kind of set the precedent for the next while. He has a supervillain look. Absolutely. This could be, he could be in the next Marvel movie. So they do that, which was another just big hullabaloo, just crazy to see a military man, a Navy guy at a funeral that is just completely satanic and having to have the honor guard show up to bury him.

They have these super bright silver helmets on, and they're, like you said, covering them in a flag all while they're like chanting incantations and spells and just goofy shit like that. Like those guys had to go home and be like, hey, how was the honor guard? I wouldn't believe it if I told you. I'm gonna need to get a drink before I start talking about this, honey. Yeah. So in 64, he releases the Satanic Bible, which, do you say has never gone out of print? Yeah, it was 69. Okay, yeah, sorry, 69. Yeah, it's never gone under print. It's sold a lot of copies and it's translated into a lot of different languages.

Like, it's still that popular. And it does. With the way that he built it, with the, just the demands that the publishing company wanted, they wanted a certain amount of pages and all the stuff that he wrote down was going to be short. So he threw some stuff in from like Nietzsche and threw some sort of different kind of texts in. He took a lot of stuff. He plagiarized the fuck out of it. And then he would always use the excuse that he was quoting them because they had been a direct inspiration. and he felt that it was relevant to know where his inspiration and his ideas had come from.

So he somehow put it in the sense that it was like almost like he was honoring them or giving them their due for the inspiration that he got. He played it off pretty well. And I looked at a little bit of it and there's some core tenants and stuff. I don't know. Did you have them? I don't have the core tenants, but I have the core tenants of the church. Yeah. And this was like.

The nine of them? The nine satanic statements? No, I don't have the nine. Satan statements. This is directly from their website. Number one, Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence. We talked about that one pretty much at length. It's not Satan that they're worshipping.

They're worshipping indulgence. Number two, Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dream. So keep yourself alive. Take care of yourself. Don't worry about putting any energy towards another deity. It kind of also seems like, this is your life.

live this life for living your life don't live this life with the expectation that there's an eternal life and you're living this one for that one so you have to pay your dues here to get there live your life the way that you want your afterlife to be

number three Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit so you believe more in the logical sense in your brain it was insanely like they wanted everyone to have autonomy and to be free thinking they wanted you to like one of the big things was you're able to question everything.

Yeah, which again, also great. Like, this is what you want in a society. Question everything because a lot of the times it's not what you hear. Number four, Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates. So love the people that you should. Don't spend your time on the assholes. And that was, I think, part of their one of their tenants or did they, it was their five major goals. and they leaned really heavily into social Darwinism.

Absolutely. Which yes and no, I can see the merits of social Darwinism. To my understanding, social Darwinism is essentially the strong survive in financial and social aspect. And so, but at the same time that you can't go full bore into social Darwinism because not everybody starts out on the same playing field. The starting line is completely different for everybody. so skewed that like social Darwinism makes sense for people already in an in an advantageous position. Yeah.

And I mean, like you say, you don't know if you're starting out with a mental deficiency. You don't know if there's something that is going on. So you do need that sense of community. You want to take care of yourself for sure. But that's what it plays into. Just like you said, like the focus is on yourself and your yourself or what it was the term vital existence? or I'm trying to remember what the terminology you said it was. If you just stopped saying Satan before every one of these

would just find it after Satan, it would sound almost completely normal. Undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit. The one below that. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates. So what I'm saying is that almost seems to the point where like a kind of social Darwin is in it itself.

Like, I, I, believe that, yes, use your energy on people that are more important to you and everything like that. But you also do have, I'm not saying you have a civic duty, but there should be almost a moral duty too for the strong to protect the weak. Don't do everything for them, but I mean, you, the way that you strengthen our society as a whole is by eliminating the weaknesses. And when I say eliminating the weaknesses, I don't mean in the sense of what social Darwinism I think does, where you're just shit out of luck if you're not going to go ahead and be in that top tier

or you're not going to work your way up. What I mean is if we can lift everybody up and no, I'm not fucking talking about socialism or communism or anything like that. What I'm saying is that you can still have people that are the one percenters and the five percenters and whatever you want to call them. But you can bring everybody down from that 99th, 100th percent

and it's not going to hurt those people up top to bring those people up into the 60th or 50th percentile and give those people a chance. Yeah. Does that make sense or does that just sound ridiculous? It does. I know that socialism is a bad word, but when I think about it, I do think about it as socialism, because when everybody succeeds, we all succeed.

Like, if you can raise everybody up all at the same time. Everybody hates socialism until their house is on fire, and they need the fire department with socialist service, or if you need, you know what, we have so many socialist programs in this country between welfare. It's a Medicare, one of them. but like people act like those aren't great services. Like they're there if you need them. Use them if you need to and everything.

But well, there should be a way for people that need help that are in a bad situation to get that without being like, oh, you're just a leech or you're a socialist or whatever. And to me, think about all those brains wasted. Think about if we gave everybody the same even playing field and everybody had the same opportunity. I just fucking thinking about that.

Like how many times do you think, think we've missed being able to cure cancer because the person couldn't eat breakfast in the morning because he didn't have the means to be fed so he couldn't go to school and pay attention and that that mind yeah that that mind was the one mind in 50 years that had that little thing where he was going to figure it out but he never or she never got the opportunity because of their circumstances their social situation pushed them to a point where they had to choose surviving over thriving and that's just my personal thought on it. I mean, if we all can do good, I feel like it only benefits everybody because you never know who's going to be that person, like you say, to cure cancer or to make a billion dollar idea or to help and benefit mankind.

I mean, give everybody the same shot. And I understand that people believe that you make your own luck. And he did to a certain extent, too. I mean, Anton talks about focusing on oneself. and if you achieve things, you achieve things on your own merit. If you fail, you fail on your own. That's just not true. This church was based on a meritocracy where, and I don't know how accurate this is,

but the way that it stated, it was based upon your accomplishments, not solely inside the church, but a lot of your accomplishments in life outside of the church were taken into account when they were trying to determine if you were going to move up. What level you were in the church? Which churches that have levels of the church, which churches that have I mean, if you say this church has levels, it makes people be like, hmm, it kind of, you know, you raise your eyebrow, you kind of... How do you get to the next level?

Yeah. And at the same time, every church has levels. They just don't call them levels. Absolutely. They've thought of very, you know, very, you know, esteemed sounding names to these, to these callings. Exactly. So after that, so he closes the Black House in 72 and moves all the performative services to, where was it?

At this point they had certain grottoes around the country where it was kind of like covens. Okay, chapters basically. Yes, exactly. And that's what they are considered now in modern day Satanism. But these grottoes... God, that name is so much better. Absolutely. You immediately think a half in the Playboy Mansion when you hear grotto.

But he was actually kind of not a fan of these places because he said that the fanaticism that would show up. Like he had enough self-awareness that he said when he would get off of planes. There were a lot of them in Michigan. They were just kind of spread kind of everywhere. I think there was one in New York. And fittingly enough, the headquarters for the church of Satan now. Yeah, it's in New York, right? Hell's Kitchen.

Yeah, that's right. Sweet twist there. But he would show up and get off these planes, and there would be so many people waiting for him that he would be happy to see that the church was growing. but he would also be so disappointed because they would be showing up in their robes and in their attire that they would wear kind of to these meetings that they would have. And he felt that the fanfare almost went too far because they didn't, like, they couldn't distinguish like where you dress in reality and then where you dress when the

performance is on. It was almost like the theatrics were outweighing the message itself or kind of, uh, that's one of the things too that was kind of interesting about this is that for members and everything, the church had no problem with their members keeping their membership or participation in the church completely secret because they understood, obviously, this is an obvious thought, that they understood that if it was made public that these people were members of the church of Satan, they might not be as successful outside of the church as they could be. And I think the other part of that is with Anton, obviously a guy that has a huge ego,

having these people that were his parishioners or whatever you want to call him as followers of higher social standing had to have made him feel more powerful and higher in that social strata. Well, there's a little bit to be said for somebody being in a secret society and somehow that word getting out and people like starting to kind of be enamored with the idea of a secret society. It's like you see now with different sorts of like what are they um we've talked about them before not the knights templar but uh like freemasons and different things like oh like yeah like what um what's the one skull and bones and that kind of stuff yeah there's sort of an aura around those places and keeping it in secret kind of grows that aura toward when people find out of it like oh i didn't know about that tell me about that little bit uh he was just so i think tired and broke down at this point that he just couldn't keep performing this stuff like it

was really starting to take a toll on him. And during this whole time, he was trying to write to do something to follow up with the Satanic Bible. And he ended up publishing the satanic rituals, which went over a lot of kind of nuts stuff as far as, like, he would go over a rendition of the first black mass

that they had. And that's a lot to get into. And it's a lot of Latin and other just shit that I don't understand. That's just bad research, but it's just very involved. He really paints a picture of like the setting and everything like that, just a very crazy deal. And they had done black masses before this in history,

so he was kind of going off of that. But really, the Satanic Church, Church of Satan, was the first organized religion that was devoted to, the devil, like devoted to the opposite of God. Yeah, it was kind of like the first ever religion that was devoted to something else other than God. It was the counter. It was the counter to modern religions.

Yeah, so he also, him and, doesn't he get married again? He doesn't get married, but he kicks the old Betty to the curb and gets it. Oh, they never married, that's right. Yeah, her name was Blanche Barton. and she was kind of like the secretary, and she was 22 at the time. So, of course, in the 70s,

he's got another old puss wife that he didn't want to be around. And this was kind of his ultimate undoing, because when he gets divorced from Diane, Diane's not really pumped about it, and she drags him into a legal battle to get her fair share of what's going on. So as they're tied up... She obviously knows there's...

some financial substance to this operation at this point. And she's just had to be in this fucking show for how many years she knows she's getting kicked out. She needs her reparations for going through all this crazy shit. So Anton says, all right, so this is a deal. The only things that I have in my name are this house and all the stuff inside of it. No money in the church hadn't made any money because he wasn't charging a lot of fees. He kind of made a desperate attempt to sell hierarchy in the church.

Didn't really work out that well, but it just wasn't a moneymaker. Everybody else in this position that has these people eating out of the palm of his hand, people would kill for the kind of press that this man got. But he just somehow, like, it didn't click in his brain that he could turn this into a financial thing. And whether that was his belief that he, or his just stupidity that he couldn't, or his belief that maybe he didn't want to get rich like he saw out of the other. religions. He didn't want that money flowing in it. Maybe he didn't value that.

Yeah. He absolutely fit that. Maybe his value instead of, yeah, instead of financial wealth. Maybe he was just motivated essentially by adoration and the almost the worship that he would get is that high priest role in this church. And the showmanship, maybe that the thing that fills up the narcissist fuel tank more

than anything, the showmanship, the adoration. Yeah. And got it, got it hard was, was that love and adoration. So him and Blanche, they have another child who, oh, I'm going to read you the full name because I see you have the first. Oh, oh, yeah, before we get to that, they end up splitting the assets. They have to sell the black house. Luckily, Anton is very connected still there. A rich, he, I forgot what he did, but he was a very rich guy, ends up buying the black house and letting him live there for free. A benefactor. Is that what it was?

That's just what they call it if, like, someone's trying to remain a number. It's, yeah. So he ends up buying the house. She gets her half, Diane gets her half, and Anton gets to live in the black house again for free. So he's still making things happen there. And he gets his money. Yeah, he can sell the house.

He gets it. So I think that kept him a float for a little bit. Okay, now, now it's child time. Okay, so in 93, Blanche Barton gives birth to Satan, Xerxes, Karnacki, do you think he got Karnacki from Karnak? from Johnny Carson. Good have. I'm more curious to know if little Satan

has changed his name or not. What do you go by in that situation? Do you go by, do you just rearrange the letters and go by Stan with two A's? Do you go by Zerxes? That's your only move. Yeah, or do you go by Xerxes?

I don't know what the play is here. Do you imagine being at the park and like having to call him home and be like, Satan? Imagine being, oh, I guess this kid probably didn't go of school, but can you imagine being in kindergarten? The future goes to read out roll.

Is Satan? Satan Xerxes? Miss Flaherty has a heart attack because she has to read Satan on there. Oh, you're from a religious family? Mr. LeVay, are you here today? Even better than that, this might be the funniest thing, besides the fake giant dick and all that. In 1995, Anton has some people. over to his house and at this point he's changed a little bit into like he's made some albums

and that's the natural progression yeah you're gonna throw out yeah he made an album called isn't that isn't that one of the things on the righteous gemstones what's the mom's name that died that they're always talking about uh no baby billy's sister yeah Fuck. I know I can't remember. But anyway, so they had, like, didn't her and John Goodman, what's his name in it? Isn't it, no, the daughter's Judy. Judy.

Yeah. I can't remember what the, like, John Goodman anyway. Didn't they, like, put out albums and stuff like that, of those two singing together? Yeah, Baby Billy and Her would do duets together as kids, and that's how they made their money. So, yeah, so obviously music. Yeah. Yeah. People need something to listen to while they're doing their Satan shit.

I don't know what this fits that, though. He made an album called Satan takes a holiday. I don't know what that is. Is it a Christmas album? What is that? It's not like Satan's home for the holidays. True. It's like Satan goes to, you know.

Maybe he's looking for somewhere cooler. Yeah. Satan does Daytona for spring break. Yeah, maybe he hits Texas. Maybe he goes down to Galvest and something like that and gets his party on. Does he go to Georgia? Devil does go down to Georgia. He found himself soul.

Do you know who it kind of reminds me of? Because he wrote like seven books, right? And they were all like the Satan something or the Witches something. It was always, it seemed like it was each book was in like a goosebumps series. Pretty much. Yeah. So he kind of reminds me of like it got to the point where this Satan takes a holiday stuff. It almost creeps into like Tyler Perry's situation.

Or he was just putting Satan in all these. Hey, Satan goes to jail. It was like earnest. Yeah. Yeah, Satan takes a holiday. Satan's Christmas classics. Yeah, Satan's Good Times by the Fire. It's like I was a day, 1995, they have a dinner, and I forgot who he brought over,

but they were playing the master album to Satan Takes a Holiday, and during the song, Satan Takes a Holiday, Anton just keels over in flatlines. His own music may have killed him at that point. He was listening to himself sing and just fucking keeled over And his heart stopped beating Do you remember on Buggy Nights where after Mark Wolver gets like addicted to coke

And he stops doing porn he tries to do an album He's like, you've got the touch You've got the power It reminds me of like it being so bad That he's listening to and he's like What? Yeah, it just goes down to me He wasn't old, that old.

I think he was 66 at this point, because he ended up living, this was 95, so he must have been 65. Oh, yeah, he doesn't die until 97. Yeah, so he had a lot of health issues in between this time and the time that he dies. He died of, I think it was a cardiopulmonary embolism or something like that. Yeah, that's what it was. And he died, I believe it was, yeah, it was October 29th, but they held back his release. of his death certificate and they put November 1st on it so he could be, uh,

so he died on Di De Laos Mertos. Ah. To kind of keep wrapping into the whole legacy that he had. Mm-hmm. Uh, which it's cool. I mean, it's probably a good way for the,

it's on the nose. The high priest of, yeah, church of Satan to go out. Um, and he must have really pissed his family off. Like, his daughters must have really hated him.

Because in 98, uh, Zina and her husband, did an article in a fairly big magazine and came out and did a fact sheet of all the things that Anton had lied about in his life and they were the ones that went through and checked on the employment records

and all these different things to see... To see if he attended University of San Francisco, all the good stuff. And so they just pretty much out at him at that point, which I find very funny. Like your kids had to deal with two cars, in the house that could potentially eat them and had to deal with a set of parents that were eating thighs and all these goofy stunts and all that shit just for them. He didn't do great.

Well, and it's kind of weird that he died in 97 because, oh, this was, sorry, this was in 88 that he had, they called it the Pentagonal revisionism. It was a plan consisting of five major goals. So between 88 and the time he died, he had these. goals kind of set out for the church. One of them was called stratification. And basically what that was is there can be no myth of equality for all. It only translates to mediocrity and supports the weak at the expense of the strong. So this was just leaning into that social Darwinism.

And not great. So it's saying water must be allowed to seek its own level without interference from apologists for incompetence. No one should be protected from the effects of their own stupidity. Now, that sentence at the last part. Yeah, last part. has some merits because I do think that a lot of people are protected, some rightfully so, some I don't know why, are protected from their own stupidity. That's super fitting right now.

So see, like, something weird, but then it grabs you. Like, the last part of it is like, okay, I guess I see that part. It circles right back around into logic. And then strict taxation of all churches. So he belonged, he believed that the productive, the creative, the resourceful should be subsidized. So long as the

useless and incompetent are getting paid, they should be heavily taxed. So that's what he was saying. He thought the other religions were useless and incompetent and believe that other churches should get taxed, which I do believe at this point, the churches should probably pay taxed. They make so much money and it's all tax-free. They had no tolerance for religious beliefs. that were secularized, secularized, and incorporated into law and order issues.

So basically, you know, what's our entire, which, again, I don't understand this, but the entire point of our judiciary, you have a separation of church and state, but the word God is so smattered into like our judiciary and then they swear them in on the Bible. And everything like that. This one is weird. The development and production of artificial human companions. So basically what they wanted to do is if they could create... He knows Stradamus this shit. Huh? He knows Tredomis this shit.

Yes. So he believed that we should have... We should develop essentially polite, sophisticated, and technologically feasible slavery. He thinks he'd be the most profitable in an industry since TV and the computer. So basically build robots so we could have slaves. And have sex with them. Oh yeah. I mean, that goes without saying, right?

but what always happens when you try to create slave robots every time uprising uprising um and then also the opportunity for anyone to live within a total environment of their choice um basically an opportunity to feel seen here that which is most aesthetically pleasing like you've been talking about living life the way that they feel that life is best for them whether that be spending money on stupid shit it doesn't go into a ton of detail in like what it means as far as like sexually or anything like that, it just pretty much says worry about yourself. I think it was meant to be ambiguous.

Yeah. So I guess I don't know if that was left open purposely, but... Yeah, I absolutely think it was because that can be applied to so many different things. But I mean, so, I mean, it's still exists now. They've got different people in place. I think his daughter is still pretty high up, not Zina, obviously. because that didn't go well. So, I mean, currently right now, the high priest is Peter Gilmore, and they have a high priestess, Peggy, Nedromia.

There it is again. High priest is Peggy. Sounds like the sweetest lady ever. I know. So the degrees that you can get into and work your way up, so you would come in as a registered member, and they have degrees. So each one has a degree. So that's no degree. Active member is first degree.

Which or Warlock is the second degree? Priest or priestess, third degree. Magistra. Or magister. fourth degree and MAGA unfortunate and MAGA is fifth degree so the third fourth and fifth degree

also get to serve on what they consider like like the council of nine but I'm not sure if there are only nine of them but it's basically like their council that makes like their decisions and shit well and they really have kind of switch gears they have something they do

that is this is how I know that all this like Church of Satan. The name, the whole thing was just a fucking troll. It was just a troll from the start to try to mess with every other religious person on the planet to be like, this is not cool. At this point, I think it's too late for rebranding too. Yeah, but

I like that they lean into it. Like they do these drives down in Texas and they actually did one here. It's called Men Straighten for Satan, which is where they have a drive to collect feminine products and stuff like that for, I think it's women's

and everything, right? That and down in Texas, you're still charged an extra tax on these things. So you're giving them out as freebies instead of them having to pay extra for these different amenities that you just need. Like there's no way around, like you can't just bleed through your pants.

It's not a fucking option in society. But it's these core basic things that women need but aren't given free because there has to be a way to tax and make money off of these. things that they can't control. And they do drives for diapers for women's and children's shelters that we're talking about. They just do so much for the community to try to help people, which, again, Church of Satan

sounds absolutely counter to that. But it's almost like they don't care about what their branding is. They just care about the good that they do, which is kind of a noble pursuit. I'm not on board. You know, I feel like anything with church in it probably isn't going to have me in it ever again. but I do see the merits and I do think that they've kind of gone to a more humanistic approach where they can try to help other people which is a good way to go. One of the things that he stated when he was coming up with what you would consider

what were the nine things like the tenants or whatnot, he said kind of their goals and their tenants, he purposely made them kind of like we were just looking at where there would be some kind of weird disagreeable stuff at the beginning. But there was enough of a smattering of agreeable stuff where it would create almost like mass appeal. So where it would be like even if someone wasn't a Satanist, they could look at that and they could see the merits in certain. So it would almost be like, yeah, I'm not going to go do that, but I'm also not going to go against you guys because you do have a few things in there that I agree with. So it was almost like a way for for him to have mass appeal, but also not to ruffle feathers to have.

have like to make enemies where he didn't need to make them. Yeah, you wanted to portray, even if you're not a part of us, at least take a little bit of something from us, which I think he did. I mean, it's... Or if you get tired of stuff you're dealing with on the other side, you know there's a few things on this side that you might like. Maybe you don't like everything, but maybe you don't necessarily have to do everything. You can just do the stuff that you're in agreement with.

This might fit your lifestyle a little bit better than the other things you don't agree with. So kind of going off of this, I know we're 240 in if you're still with us. Do you have anything else on this? No, I mean, my main wrap-up is Anton was full of shit, and he was a product of the guy that showed up that was a Dillow manufacturer. But he told a good story. And if you tell a good story, you're eventually going to end up getting followers. If you tell good enough story and you can keep adding that story,

and you can tell that story for long enough, you'll find, like, can you imagine what this guy could have done, in the age of the internet. Had he started all this stuff? Yeah, their website now is not anything special. And I think, again, that's probably by design. But if he had a way to, if he had YouTube, oh, buddy, he'd be crushing YouTube numbers. All right.

So, again, we're at 240 right now. We're going to take a quick bathroom break. If you were just here to listen to the information on Anton and the Church of Satan, you can probably go ahead and end it. We're going to come back and we're actually going to go into something. where me and Adam have a discussion about what we would like to see if we got to come up with our own religions. Yeah.

All right. We'll be right back. All right. And we're back. All right, buddy. I want to hear yours first. So what did I say we were going to, so we're going to design our own. But when you ask me, it was just what you're like, what the story behind it would be.

Not so much the tenets of the rules, but like the lore or the myth behind it. The beginning. Yes. It's kind of what I went by. So I'm going to go with the religion of Watertopia. Is this one that already exists? No. Okay.

So what's it called? Watertopia. Watertopia. Yeah. Hydrotopia. I was kind of playing around at that. Aquatopia? It's sort of like a...

That sounds like something, a different city in Aquaman. Aquatopic. Well, we could figure out how to work that in there, too. We could figure out how to work Aquaman in there. I'm thinking we go. with a reverse water world situation where you have people that have been wandering the desert for so long

and the only sustenance that they can get is digging down into the sands to find a little bit of water to revive them. So kind of a dune? A little bit, yeah. And as they're rolling through the desert, they come upon a small stream and this stream for them

was something that they had been praying for for so long. So is this, I'm just trying to build some backstory on this, Is the world itself, like a reverse water world where water is very short on the whole world? Like the oceans aren't kind of like fully formed, but it's mostly like... You're digging for it. That's the only way you're... Okay.

You have wells. You don't have really anything else. You're just surviving off of wells and you're surviving in poverty. So these people, the explorers were going out to hopefully find a better civilization in order to survive. Because their wells were running dry. And as their mouths were dry and they were about to die of heat exhaustion, hoping that something would save them, they came upon what they thought was a mirage, but it was actually a river. These people showed up to the river.

They bathed themselves and cleaned themselves, and they realized that from getting water in wells, there's so many other benefits as far as sustenance and finding fish and being able to feed themselves instead of just trying to grow with what little they had. And the water gave them food, the water gave them hope, the water cleaned them. they decided that that was where they needed to stay. So they sent one group to the left, one group to the right to follow the river to see where it landed. And the group that went right discovers that there is a big line of mountains with green lush forests in there

that the water has provided for them to be able to survive and thrive. And the rain fall to try to clean the earth and protect them. The group to the left follows it all the way down to. until they get to this ocean, where there's just a bountiful harvest of food. They end up meeting back in the middle. They tell them their exploits. They realize that this is where they need to start their new lands. The people that try to come to attack them can't cross over the river because it's flooded from the springtime rain,

so the water has protected them. Then you have the earth that is starting to provide the food and the sustenance, all because the water ran over the land. and basically the religion is centered around water being the Lord that provides the sustenance for them to grow and continue and the water grows the trees where they have shade and protection and then they use the trees to make buildings and houses to protect themselves so it's almost like more of a mother earth is the deity where she provides she protects when there's a wicked group of people that try to come she sends the waters down from the mountains to wipe them away and stop them from attacking the village. Just a beautiful story.

So like a naturalistic religion. Yeah. Yeah, I want Mother Earth to be God, goddess. It kind of sounds almost like something that when you first started kind of talking about it, it reminded me of something you would hear in like South American, like Aztec. Yeah, a little bit. Like the traveling of the mountains and everything. And then it kind of also reminds me of what I would imagine.

And I want to talk about this. I want to dedicate an episode to it is like different Native American groups. And it reminds me of something that you would see like from a like Native American, American, American. I don't even know why I just said American before Native American. It's late into the podcast. It reminds me of something like the Native Americans would believe. Like the earth is sustainiest. It provides us the buffalo and the water.

to hunt and everything like that. Speaking of which, have you watched pray yet? No, I've heard it's pretty good. It is fucking phenomenal. Okay. The chick in it is amazing. And it's like,

it's, yeah, it's awesome. I've seen it pop up on Hulu. We haven't watched it yet, but it's something I put in the list. So is, so is there also like a water god or is it just all mother nature providing everything?

It's a polytheistic religion where there is the water god and then you get into the, And this kind of rips off as I'm thinking about it. It's a little bit of a riff on like the Greek gods as far as like there's somebody that controls the skies. When the earth floods, it takes out the bad people and not the good people. You get tornadoes from the god of the sky to make sure that it's cleaning out the bad people. Not like it does now where it always seems to it trailer parks, which that's a 50-50 shot of maybe being bad or good.

but it's a protection for the people that believe in it. It's a good feeling to know that if you take care of Mother Water and Mother Earth, that Mother Earth will provide you the protection that you need to fight through battles and wars and keep you alive and going. That would be really interesting to see if that, something like that, made it through to modern times. Yeah. Because you do get people that are kind of like what you consider like hippie, hippie-ish or whatever that talk about like the return to nature and like living in harmony with

nature which i fully like not to that extreme but i believe that like we've completely lost track of the fact that like we're just like fucking up the planet and we don't realize it because we look around and like the planet's so big i mean we'll just move to a different spot if the water rises a little bit it's like but at what point like how long do you plan on staying here because if the water keeps rising and rising but at the same time it's like we're making a a ton more people at all the times. Like our growth is like insane. And we're living in places that shouldn't be inhabital.

We're living in all of Arizona is a desert, but for some reason it's growing exponentially, which is... Well, it's because it's only half the year. True. Yeah. And it is pushing, you know, those resources that the Hoover Dam, like we talked about, was it last week, two weeks ago? Yeah, like two. Lake Mead is sinking in an alarming rate.

And that's a lot of the water supply. get sent to Arizona and those other places off the Colorado River. Yeah, I don't think people understand like the effect of that. There's only, just like, oh, people can't boat. People can't get their boats in. Like, that's like,

that's... That's not the problem. No, the problem is like, do you realize what it takes to grow food? It takes like irrigation water and that provides your water for for growing food. Like, there's, there's shit, there's consequences, just that someone can't wakeboard, that's not the... Or someone can get their houseboat in and fucking enjoy spring

break. You're bitching about produce and everything else going up. It's like, yeah, that's because they're in a drought and they have to pay more for the water to create the food that you also eat that sustains you. It's like there's a cradled, like a big swath of land in California that grows like, I want to say it's like 40% of the fruits and vegetables that supply for the United States. It's that big. It's like 2% of the population grows the food for 80%.

percent of the pocket. Something like that. Just some insane number. And if they're going through a drought, because we have too many people that are living there that are sucking so much water out of the area because it takes a lot of water sustained. And it's like the L.A. River. I mean, the L.A. River supplies a lot of water for a lot of people because there's a lot of people that move down there. And they're going to suck that water from somewhere. And that water could be going to anywhere else that we can grow food or that we need it. So they're kind of kind of a certain time where, and maybe this

just is the hippie in me, but we've done enough to the planet to where we just really need to figure out something else because if we want this to, you know, you could just look at it from like your life perspective, like none of this shit's really going to affect me before

I die, but there are future generations that live here because there were future generations before us that didn't know, didn't care to try to hold it up for us, so you got to make up some of that slack. You have to make sure that it's better than you left it. I'm trying to think of...

So I have mine picked out, but I'm trying to find what I want to compare it to because it does have a comparison. It's like... What do you got? Give it to me and then we'll... Okay.

Workshop it. Okay, so mine, if I was going to make one, I would like mine to be based on, like, a religion. Have you ever heard of a guy name? Is it Zachariah Hitchens? I've heard of him.

I don't know. So I'm trying to think, because I'm trying to search him, but he has this, it's this bad shit crazy. And this isn't what I'm thinking, but this is comparable to it, I guess. But there's this planet and it, let's see, if I'm trying to find this guy's name.

All right, I'll keep looking. So this is like a, you're starting from a new planet, planet. Yeah, so basically what it would be is his whole thing is that he believes there's this planet. It starts with the Z. I can't remember. but maybe it doesn't start with the Z shit. I can't remember.

I'm going to butcher this. But anyway, he believes there's this planet that kind of lies outside of our solar system and that every so many years what occurs, it's like thousands of years. The orbit of that planet

somehow gets brought into the orbit, like they intersect with Earth, and they get close enough. And what happens is our planet was used as like a seed planet to create like a labor force and to develop humanity for resources and the population.

and the population for workforce. And when this planet comes into, not orbit, but close enough to ours, the people from this planet that ceded the planet for us, come down, use our resources, take a bunch of people back to that planet, and then use them as like a workforce, and then, you know,

the planets separate from each other, and then the cycle starts again. It's kind of like we're the minor league for... Yeah, we're a farm system, basically. Mine would be more so a combination, kind of of like that, like an ancient civilization actually

like conspiracies or alien shit were visited whether it be the Aztecs the Incans the Egyptians or you know another civilization

but those civilizations I like to say that have like you always wonder how do they do that yeah like the ones that seem so much more advanced yeah we've talked about

and I think it'd be cool if like they interacted with that and that's who gave them their technology for evolution and it's a religion that like believes that there are greater beings and a greater power but there's a tangible greater power that has like influence like humanity there's an

understanding that we didn't do all of this ourselves like yeah that yeah that maybe not even like and maybe the the the reason that they came down and picked like a group to elevate or try to evolve a little bit more. What if they, like, it'd be cool to think if they've been doing that throughout the course of not just human history, but history within the planet. So like, they came to the planet, let's say when it was after dinosaurs, it was, you know, when primates were starting to develop. And they came down and they were like, let's see what we can do with these monkeys.

And so, have you ever heard of like the stone dap theory? It's a theory about evolution, basically. Isn't that the one that Rogan always goes in on? Yeah, but I like its merits because its merits are based on the fact that like little changes within groups of either like a species can set that group apart from the next and lead a different like a divergent path of evolution. So it's like a hyper evolution almost. Yeah, kind of. So like the Stone Deep theory was that there was a group of monkeys that at some point realized how to use either like mushrooms or psychedelics or something just within their foraging and everything. and they found that taking those, I mean, obviously, microdosing everything,

you find that it opens up a creative part of your brain. And so these creatures started to do something like these primates started to do something different. Like maybe they started using sticks for tools. And that's what led them to do that was this introduction of these aliens being like, well, we know that these things do that. Let's introduce these mushrooms or psychedelics. And kind of like guide. Yeah.

And so they came and they did that. And then they left and they came back 500 years later and saw what happened. And they're like, okay, there's now this separate group. And like, let's say, I know 500 years isn't the gap. But then let's say they came back and they're like, oh, we have some people walking up right. And so they then helped them discover fire or cooking meat. Because another thing that they say is during our evolution, there was a time period within our evolution in which our bodies didn't change too drastically, but the size of the human brain grew dramatically. and they

one of the theories is that part of that was due to our learning to cook food and being able to have higher nutrient and more readily available nutrients because cooking food would also allow you to cook it and dry it and keep it longer

so there'd be less starvation and everything as far as like a jerky or something like that to preserve it packing it and salt but yeah so then they left again and then they came back and they were like oh now they're building shit or they're fighting with each other

or and so they would just very slowly introduce We still haven't gotten over that part yet we're still fighting with each other Yeah but they would just move us along a little bit And I thought it'd be cool if like This really you know these civilizations You know how they see sometimes like during different civilizations They'll see similar symbols

Symbols symbols Stuff like that like shapes symbols things construction of like their structures like the Inkins and the Egyptians You start to see squares You start to see triangles But that That's all shared knowledge

That was passed down by one source And I think it'd be cool if we had A religion that like And maybe there are religions believe that We got Scientology and it believes in a Galactic Overlord or something like that That threw people in a fucking volcano Or something like that

But I like to think of this being like More of a Benevolent type race that's just maybe just fucking around to see what we can do. And at some point, they were like, one of their guys messed up and came on a mission, and he's just supposed to look up on us, and he sees someone getting ready to split the atom and everything,

and instead of stepping in being like, don't do that, anything like that. He's busy doing something. He's busy watching a movie from Watergate, and he doesn't know it. It says split the atom, and all of a sudden we got nuclear weapons, and he has to go back to his buddy,

on the planet and be like, so what's going on over there? And he's like, oh, so they've discovered, they've discovered nuclear power, the power of the atom. They're like, what the fuck happened? They weren't supposed to do that.

And he's like, I took my eye off him for literally like a day. Nixon was talking, man. I didn't realize what was going on. They split the atom. Well, what will we do at this point? I don't know. We'll just watch and find out what happens.

Let them be. This could be interesting. Mm-hmm. And that probably exists. And I know the years has existed in some way or another, but it'd be cool if that was like... An alien hand that guided the evolution of man from... And if that was main...

And if that was like mainstream, would it be on par with Scientology? Would people be like, it's just another fucking alien religion? I don't know, because it... What's more feasible, though? And guys, if you're still with us, thank you so much, because this is Mike on a few more minutes, but feel free to bow out at any time or turn this into a two-day.

Let this be a two-day commuter. This is just for funzies at this point. But what's more likely? If you really think about it, okay, what was the telescope they just launched? The one that just took all the pictures, they were like super high quality, and you could see the galaxies and everything.

The web. Yeah, the web. Something web. And you could see the galaxy disks, like the different colors and stuff like that. So what's more likely that at some point somebody came down and helped seed our planet or help us develop along because there's nothing on earth like us. No.

How many other, I mean, we as a species, a human species, we have different races and different offshoots that look different, that, you know, some are taller, some are larger, different hair and everything like that. But at the same time, you know, we're the only, there's a whole bunch of different, like, cats on the place. planet, small cats, big cats, domestic cats, everything like that, a whole bunch of different types of canines, whales, fish, I mean, there's so many offshoots of different species, but we're the only one that's really like us. And it's just weird to say, like, at what point, like, how did we become us? Is it more likely that we started out in a fucking orchard with two people that all of a sudden, all of us are determined, or all of us are from, can trace our lineage back to two people or that women were made from the one man's rib? Yeah.

Or that at some point, some other civilization came down and saw potential in a certain species or something like that and was like, let's just do something to help them along. Maybe at some point that they can become, you know, a utopian society where they can then join us in like an intergalactic community or some shit, as soon as they stop fucking each other up. And at some point, we just were like, nope, we're just going to stay here and fuck up the planet and fuck each other up. Yeah, this is kind of fun. it's I wonder just going on that thought like what the next species to pop

off would be or what if God is an alien could be because if you're thinking about it it's a it's a dude without form in the sky like it could just be you know a misrepresentation or a misunderstanding

of what happened in the in the past okay I had a weird thought this is unrelated to but I got to get this out so I was thinking so you know how they say like if you're looking up in the sky at the stars, that the light that you're seeing is, like six million years away. It's super, super old, right? So these stars could all be burned out.

So they could be burned out and everything like that. So does that mean that the light we're getting is the light from the past? So are we technically looking back in time? Yeah. That's the theory that they use to try to figure out, like, the Big Bang happened and how it all happened is we have a snapshot of so many years back in time where we can see how different planets and everything. Or you can see stars going out that used to be there so we can determine how far that used to be.

So how many years it must have taken? How old is it like? My brain is I guess it's not, I don't have the, the, what's his name, Tyson. Neil the Grass Tyson. Yeah, Neil the Grass Tyson. I don't have whatever even allows him to somewhat comprehend that kind of stuff. It's just like the light, it's in the past, it allows us to date, and we can try to determine how the universe is.

Yeah, you can look at different things, like, different, like how a planet has rings. There had to have been an explosion or something around that planet to cause that debris field to circle that planet in a way where... Or its gravity had to be a certain way to attract a certain amount of asteroids to which point that it then keeps them in this. Which, I mean, if you really think about, and you talked about this on our favorite, uh, high things is camping, sitting out in the chair and just looking up at the stars. And you look up and if you really let yourself get lost and kind of think about like everything that's out there and is so overwhelming, like, does maybe that overwhelm you so much that you try to look for a simpler explanation? And that's where maybe religion, it kind of helps bridge

that gap between, I can't explain this. This is too big for me to try to comprehend. and maybe if I simplify it and say that this was all the work of one creator and that we're special and it's just us and all of this is just like what do we expect the universe is if we're the only ones is the what's the purpose of the rest of the universe why is it even there it's just a monumental question to try to comprehend and figure out and it's to me that's kind of what religion is is an answer to life's questions that are is too tough to figure out, which there will be people that live a life from getting their degree to going into the ground that are trying to figure that out all the time. I'm not saying it's an

ignorance is bliss situation, but maybe it's comforting that you feel like there's some type of order. Yeah, so like, does it, is it comforting almost not being comfortable in ignorance, but just comforting to maybe use that as the one answer for, like you said, use that as the answer for all the unknowable or unanswered questions. That to me seems like a, it's almost a comfort to know the opposite for me. Like, I don't need to know all these big questions, but I'm also comfortable in knowing that if I don't know them, there's a great chance that everybody else doesn't know them as well.

so it's almost like you get to be kind of like we were talking about like the first time you see a movie and those feelings that you get we live in a place where everybody seems to think that they like know where they're going or they know like...

They haven't figured out or something. Yeah but we're always going to be the first generation to see different things and if that is the ending of the planet or anything like that or if we discover these new things like the web telescope going up and seeing all these different things like that's it's an outcome that we don't really know where it's going to end but we do know that eventually

there will be answers and whether we're here or not for it it's great but to know that just because we don't know it doesn't mean that somebody else hasn't figured out like nobody else is smarter than us when it comes to this stuff you're you're kind of your own belief system as to how these things happen we'll have a front row seat to some crazy shit I mean there's stuff that we talk about on a daily basis that I never thought that I would be alive to see. Yeah, that's true.

Like, I feel like there is, there's merit in the comfort of just believing that you can put all your eggs in one basket and believe that, like, the questions that you don't have answers to, the answers are in this basket. You're just not meant to understand them. You're not meant to look at them.

And you may? Eventually, it may be that way. I, I like the thought of, it's not like, it's not the unknown to me isn't scary. I think the whole thing is, is like, my unknown that's scary to me is people at this point. Because, like, I don't know, like, what people are capable of.

I've seen so many things that I didn't think people were capable of, but they are that that part worries me. But the whole thing about, like, believing in a higher power or something out there, I like the optimistic unknown that when I look up instead of just saying, well, this is how it is. These are the answers because it's written in a book. I like looking up and saying maybe there's more out there.

And I like the endless possibilities that aren't kind of funneled down into like a belief system. Like because if you're like just believing along the lines of like either like Christianity or any like Catholicism or any of the other like major religions, I know that barely scratches the surface on it. But what I'm saying is that you do have freedom to. go ahead and look into unknown questions and answers. But it's like wearing a pair of glasses where there's just little holes where your eyes are. It gives you just a, you can only look where the structures of your theology are going to go ahead and guide you. There may be a couple options in there. But just be able to look out and see the, like see everything in like 4K widescreen and be like,

this is all the possibilities because I'm not shackled by a belief on this one little segment. Like I get to look out here and I say, oh, there's, all this possibility. Well, Anton kind of backed up on that same thought, too, is to not wanting people to believe other people's conclusions, like to form your own conclusions on these things because they really knew no more than you do. Theirs was just an educated guess and to put all your eggs in a basket of somebody's educated guests that you don't know their backstory where they came from or anything like that.

it pigeonholes you like you're talking about into that single perspective, whereas if you take it all in yourself and you kind of decide what you feel is right, it's no more detrimental than following somebody who said this before you. Exactly. Like 80% of the stuff, you know, was bullshit or I didn't agree with, but then those little things about the free thinking and those types of things, I could see why to a certain type of people that that type of freedom. and what this would be classified as is it would be religious freedom.

It's a religion that allows you the ability to go ahead and kind of believe in what you want to believe. And there was something in here for you. I'm not saying I'm signing up or anything like that. But to be able to look at something like this, and I think that that's one thing that mean you get to do on this is everything that we look at, even some of like the weird or like depressing stuff, you get to pick out pieces of it and you can say, okay, I can see why this has value. and everything.

And so... There's always redeeming qualities. Exactly. Not redeeming enough to, you know, wipe everything away. Yeah, this guy did some goofy shit. But enough to be like, okay, like, why couldn't he just have taken that

and ruled with that? And built everything off of that. Yeah, he had... But I guess the religious freedom allowed him to do all this other stuff. So it was like his own loophole built into it. He had a great cornerstone to build on and then he just fucked up.

Yeah. Made it weird. All right, man. Way to bring it back around, by the way. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you did, huh? I love this. I'm glad that this was our first religion that we jumped into,

because it's one of those things where you don't necessarily want to start out with the chalk. No. Well, here's the other thing, too. Is this is such a niche, like kind of off-the-wall religion, is that I don't feel like, and I know we went off on tangents about other mainstream religions and kind of talked about pros, cons, things like that. But this you can just go in on because it's so fucking ridiculous. Yeah.

You don't, there's not a lot of, like, there's sad parts of other religions. There wasn't a whole lot of sad. There was weird. There was odd. There was stupid. But then there was good qualities in there too. But it wasn't anything where, like, they didn't conquer people. They weren't killing people.

No, no one died here. I mean, Jane Mansfield and her boyfriend did, but I want to say that that's completely unrelated. Yeah, that didn't have anything to do with it. And the naval guy that died, I think, probably had a pretty good sense of humor too. All right, man, you got anything else? No. No, I think we got Satanism nailed down.

Not members, but somewhat advocates, allies? I advocate their point of allowing free thinking and kind of, kind of, the freedom to kind of go about things their own way. Right. Choose your own adventure. Yep. All right, guys, thanks for hanging in. If you made it all the way to the three hour and 12 minute mark for our longest podcast yet, congratulations.

Let us know, too. Let us know you listen to the little thing. It's been nice to see. You know our socials. They're going to be at the end. They're coming this way. So just listen for them. Let us know if you listen to the whole thing.

We'll, uh, if you listen to the whole thing, let us know what we talked about the last five minutes of it, we'll give you a shout out. There we go, man. All right, guys. See you next week. Peace. All right, guys.

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