Historically High - OJ Simpson Part 1- The Beginning

Episode Date: June 8, 2022

Orenthal James Simpson, or OJ as most know him is a story almost too strange to be real. A child grows up poor and disabled, overcomes his disability and discovers football. Becomes a national sensation and champion, Drafted #1 into the NFL, Stars in movies and in broadcasting, nationally beloved, but one night changes it all, charged with a horrendous crime he says he didn't commit. That's gotta be a Lifetime or Hallmark of the week movie, or some cheap murder mystery. Yeah well it's not, it real and it's way crazier than you initially believed. Support the show Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Just stupid little shit like that. Like, just random things. I poured a glass of juice yesterday, and I turned around and put the juice in the cupboard instead of back in the fridge. Usually think you would be on something to do that. Yeah, but I... It's flipped.

That's the missing piece of your brain operating. I get forgetful without drugs. And alcohol? I had to... I drank that much whiskey all at once last night and gave it like 10, 20 minutes. before I thought of that last meme. Like, that was...

I just had to sit there. I was like, what are you doing? I thought you were trying to say, couldn't it tell me, like, I drank an entire glass of whiskey you know, for my throat to make it feel better. How have you felt having to delay this

for four extra days? It's fucking terrible. I absolutely hate it. Do you feel like you're going to be able to do it justice? I just... There's so much information and I realized that as much as I love this part of it,

like the murder and everything. I just love court cases. It's one of my absolute favorite things in the world to watch trials and to go through and pick apart the defense and the prosecution and the things that they fucked up. And after going through all this again with like a fine-tooth comb, I don't know how anybody could have found OJ guilty. You don't know how anyone could have found him guilty?

Yeah. Like I understood. that there's so much evidence and everything there, but when you have to find somebody guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, his defense put up so much reasonable doubt for fucking everything. There's so many things that I'm going to get into, like the fact that they didn't have the trial in Santa Monica. I know, but we have to...

We're in part one. I'm aware. I know. I'll push all that back. Okay. This is going to be easy. I can do OJ's playing days and Jimmy L.J. and all that stuff.

I'm excited for you on this because I know that this is this is like your real house. I can't say that I love OJ anymore, but at the same time, like, I do completely understand why I'm just enamored with him. Here's the thing. I am looking forward to you

over the course of this. Okay, this is going to be a two-parter because I know this is going to be long. So this will be like an hour and a half to two, two hours each part of it. So. two each. We're going to go from O.J. early life all the way up until the murders, right?

No, no. Up until he, the trial starts. Yeah, so we'll go. O.J. born. O.J. in the projects. O.J. going in a gang. O.J. in high school. College, a little bit.

We'll touch on. Then into the NFL, we'll touch on just the very simple things. And then we'll dive straight into his life. We'll take it all the way to the Broncos. chase, we'll do the Bronco chase, and then we'll cut that for the day. Okay, then we'll come back and talk about the trial just because there's so much to talk

about just in that. Okay, so Orenthal James Simpson. Adam, tell me about O.J. Are we recording? Yeah. Oh shit, okay. This one's a tough one for me because I don't, I can't say that I love OJ, but at the same time

he's just, he has me so enamored. We're not old enough to have seen him play. No. He was far before our time. No. I was, because by the time the arrest happened, how long out of the NFL was he?

A ways, because he went into the Hall of Fame in 1984, so he would, I think his last play was, 1979. Yeah, that makes sense. So, because I was nine when the Bronco chase, eight or nine, when the Bronco chase happened. So my first memories of OJ

were literally the court case. Can you pull your mic closer to you? Of course. That thing, you are as close to my mic as you are to your own. Is that better? Yeah, I'm sure it'll sound better. Okay. So, I would like to say that I got my love for OJ from watching him play,

but obviously that just wasn't it. And learning more about him through the court case than learning about his playing days, and then going back and seeing what he did on a football field, obviously as a sports fan, you can't deny that he was, one of, if not the best running backs, probably top five running backs in NFL history,

would you say? I don't know, man, that's hard to think of on the spot. So Sanders, Walter Payton, Emmett Smith, Jim Brown, Jim Brown, Adrian Peterson. You've got to even throw some more recent guys in there. Top 10, maybe. I would say he's probably safely in the top ten.

Well, and I don't know if our listeners are necessarily sports fans, but a 2,000-yard season as a running back in the NFL was something that had never happened before OJ came along. Has it only happened the one time since then? OJ had it, Chris Johnson had it, Adrian Peterson had it, Chris Henry's done it, and there was somebody before that, but it wasn't, it just is a feat that only a handful of guys have done.

And to know that he was that good, and we just got to dive into him. I know, so here's, here, there's so much that's, like, fascinating about this, the culture that's kind of just spun up around people rediscovering this and, like, you know, different documentaries coming out and that kind of stuff. what's nuts is that kind of going on what you were saying about not having seen him play or anything

everybody who is i would assume probably born in 19 i'll even go 19 in 85 i was 9 when this happened and so i didn't get to watch him play this was my so let's just say 85 on their introduction to o j simpson was the murder trial and like everything that has happened like subsequently after that Um, unless you're a Bill's fan, like, seriously, are you going to know who OJ Simpson really is? Are you going to know that that was someone that, you know, was a running back previously for your team? I break him down into the three phases of his life, and these, I think, are probably the three ways that people either knew him. They either knew him from his NFL career. They knew him is the guy that was the Hertz Renocar spokesman.

And the naked gun. Yeah, the actor. The guy had so many different movies. He had his own production. company that he started putting out just shit made for TV movies that he just wanted to be in. So he was Tyler Perry before Tyler Perry. I don't like the racial connotation there we guess. No, no, I'm saying that he makes, a guy who makes, has his own studio, makes his own, that's, I didn't even think about that.

I was saying both of them own own studios and make their own, just crank out a bunch of stuff, some of which is not what I would consider the best quality programming. No. And OJ had certain movies that were Like you said, the naked gun. He was in three naked guns. Him and Leslie Nielsen, he was absolutely phenomenal. He was, what was his name? That was just called him his last name. I can't remember. Not Bergman.

If you can't remember, then it probably wasn't that good. It was just so long ago. All right, well, while you're looking at that up, So I'm just going to run through the quick facts until we get up to some of the more interesting stuff. So he's born July 9th. He's born the day before me. I didn't know that. He was born the day after America and he was born the day before you.

Okay, so he's born July 9th, 1947 in San Fran. He's one of four kids. I had to write everything very small just because I had so much stuff. four kids Eunice Durdon and Jimmy Lee Simpson. Those were his parents. Eunice Durdon was a... Oh, by the way, just real quick, he was Nordberg. That's right.

Normberg! Yep. So, Oge was born, July 9th, like he said. He was born in a project in San Francisco, a very poor low-rent area. Eunice's mom was a hospital administrator, and she worked the graveyard shift. for like 20 plus years. That was she, her and Jimmy Lee, I don't know if all four of them were Jimmy Lee's kids,

but she had had four kids and she would work nights so she could be home and during the day to try to give Oge and his siblings kind of the best, most normal life that they could. Gotcha, okay. So him growing up in the projects in San Francisco, you like to think that San Francisco would be what it is now

where it's kind of a place of the strain, in the different and it's a very accepting society. Back then where he grew up, that was not at all a place where he felt comfortable. And Jimmy Lee, his dad, was a custodian, a chef, and had done a few other things. The big surprise about Jimmy Lee turned out to be gay. So as he transferred kind of out of the family, he wasn't really in Oge's life very much. That's also going to come back into play. during some like descriptions that people have given about like OJ.

Well, and he even thanked Jimmy Lee in his Hall of Fame speech and said that he made him the man that he was and that he really influenced him, but Jimmy Lee just was absent as life. So it kind of starts the pattern of OJ telling a story that wasn't necessarily his story, but it was kind of a story that, suburban white people would want to hear.

Well, I'm referring more so to the fact that his dad was gay because there have been some of his friends that have come out and said that he had this weird thing about being around like gay men he freaked out on Nicole a couple times when Sheila one of her gay friends

like hold their kids. Oh yeah. And he yelled at her literally in like their home it was in Hawaii I think and they said he yelled at her all night like was just screaming about it. So he definitely I don't know if he associated having an

absentee father and being gay as maybe the reason why his father was absent. I mean, I don't know how much one had, did he have a second life or something like that? I don't know. But that just, I think part of that and maybe part of the anger that he carried

through his life was caused by that. And it's one of those things where, like I said before, OJ is as a person, he's a complete shithead. And this whole time, I'm going to go through a lot of this,

and it's going to sound like I'm painting just a beautiful portrait of OJ, because on the surface level, he was a tremendous human, not a tremendous human being. I take that back. He was a tremendous figure. I feel like you have this ability with this,

and I'm sure you have it with other people other than this, but I feel like you have this thing with OJ where you're able to completely separate almost two people. Like, there's the person that OJ was, before all this, how America knew him through like a very filtered lens. And then there's the person you found out

he actually was once all of this started to come to light about the abuse and that kind of stuff. It's that. And then OJ. almost had, he wasn't split personality by any means, but he was a guy that could get

what he wanted because he knew how to talk, he knew how to act in public, he knew how to make all that stuff happen. He knew how to look good on the football field, he knew how to transition into an acting career. I think he was very aware of how to use his abilities and what his abilities were. Oh, absolutely.

He knew when to be a little bit intimidating. He knew when to be, you know, hey, OJ here. I'm just thinking of the whole situation overall. It sounds like a book or a movie. It sounds like something that's fiction. Just simply because you're like, you have this guy who was, you know, of course, kind of this more,

but a Heisman trophy-winning college football player, a pro-successful pro player. Then he got the TV and he got the movie career and everything. But, oh, no, there's a secret behind this man. It sounds like, you know, a Hollywood script or either that or just like a shitty murder mystery romance type novel thing. And he, his college years to me seem so formative to him because he was a kid that grew up in the projects

and ended up not being smart enough to graduate correctly. So he had to go to a year at community college and then came to USC, we'll cover all this. This is just kind of a little... I actually wondered why he went to a smaller school. I didn't know if he wasn't as good of a player and then he just developed within that short time frame. He was phenomenal.

When he gets to USC, USC is just a predominantly white campus. There's specs of color and that's really about it. So OJ coming from the projects, all the white folks that are around him, this is going to be the first brother that they've seen from the hood that grew up in completely different means. And so he kind of learns to start to adapt to acting almost a little bit more white, you would say. He assimilates to them and said them assimiling to him. Correct. Yeah, it's just, it's one of those things where he saw what people loved about him.

and then he just completely exploited it. Yeah. So he wanted to, for them to view him as almost the, as dumbest is going to sound like, the safe, friendly black guy. And not even necessarily an equal. He wanted everybody to see him as the god that he believed that he was. So one of the crazy things about the fact that OJ turned out

to be the kind of runner that he was, was when he was, I think he was three or four years, old he developed rickets. I have no idea what that is. It's a vitamin D deficiency that causes your legs to grow fairly incorrectly, something that the modern world has kind of taken care of. This is going to sound stupid. Did Forskump have rickets?

Yeah. Okay. And that's why you grew up with the leg braces. So Oge was the same way. He had to wear leg braces all the time. And at one point, his grandma even tells a story that when OJ would go to sleep at night, his grandma would pull the shades down. and take the actual rods that the curtains were on and strap them around his legs.

So when he slept, his legs would grow straight because it causes your legs to bow out. So it's almost like you just got off of a horse all the time. So... Run out of day. Run, juice run. So coming off of that, you would think that the least likely way that he would be able to make a living in life would be to run. Yeah. It was just something that was kind of shocking

And I had known about it before But didn't really know to the extent that it was OJ's life kind of seemed like a mystery to him When he was younger He didn't find out that his name was actually Orenthal James Simpson Until third grade He thought that his name was literally OJ Teacher was doing a roll call or something

Yeah And that's how he found it out And Orenthal was named by his aunt For a French actor Is where Orenthall came from So as he grows up, he's kind of learning more about his identity, and I'm sure he's looking around the neighborhood and seeing that he doesn't fit in. He fits in decently in the projects, but when they go outside of the projects,

he's probably still being made fun of at home because he has rickets. He's a kid that has a handicap. That, and I'm sure it's something that you've noticed, and anybody that sees Oge would notice today, huge head. Oh, yeah. Gigantic head. And this even comes into play. as he grows up and gets older

he actually joined a gang in the project that they were in called the Persian Warriors which I don't know where a predominantly black project would know what Persian warriors are but just a thing where I think he was almost looking for more of a family because

his mom worked nights he had three brothers and sisters but at the same time I don't know how close they would have been at that time well it's also if he's you know he's younger and everything and he's also been kind of ostracized because of his disability. Absolutely.

You know, you don't want to boil it down like this because, you know, it's a mental health discussion and everything. But, you know, honestly, how many kids actually just join gangs because it gives them like a sense of community and friendship and it's something they can belong to and how many of those kids have that beforehand? I mean, I don't know the statistics. I just feel like him growing up like this and, you know, having a disability, maybe being made fun of he gets some people that are

friendly to him or you know make him feel welcome then he's only joining a gang well when you grow up poor I think there's always a sense of wanting more and I'm sure seeing the gangmakers out on the street that were

making money and that had better things and that had better means I think that he probably wanted some of that and then he was just like I say looking for a sense of belonging and that's not to say that Eunice didn't do everything she could for him. No, but I mean, there was four kids. Like, well, yeah. You could only do so much. There was a story, um,

that Eunice had told where they obviously didn't go on vacation very much. They had family in Arizona. So Eunice worked. I think it was 16 hour shifts for like two weeks straight to save up enough money and to save up enough time to take them on a legitimate vacation. So they go to Arizona and this is right around the time that Oge is about to play his first Little League game. And he was pretty bummed out that he had to miss his first Little League game because I'm sure coming off of Ricketts and everything like that, he wanted to be accepted by his friends, he had a team finally, and it was something that he really wanted to do,

and he was fairly disappointed. Well, Eunice loaded him up in the car and drove all the way back to San Francisco. It was like an 800-mile round trip just so Oge could play in his first Little League game. Something that I don't know many parents that come from me, and the do well would do now. Yeah, no kidding. So I think he had that at home as far as the love. Obviously not a father figure with Jimmy out of the picture.

And maybe that was it too. It was the older male figures that were accepting of him or encouraging him of him. Who knows? This guy is not the right guy to study on why he's fucked up. Well, and that's why I can't get enough of him. Because he is so, the way that his mind works, I love psychology, and I love trying to be able to break down, like, serial killers and look and say you're a psychopath, a sociopath. I don't think Oge is either one of those, because he's just a terrible liar.

And that's something that you see typically in a psychopath where they are just so good at lying because they've done it for so long that they can stick with any lie that they tell because it's just ingrained in their mind. This is what happens. Okay, before we get, we're already into it, but... So do you think he did it, though? I am more sure that, and this has to be allegedly, because I don't know, I'm sure O.J. would never sue us. But I'm more sure that O.J. killed Nicole and Ron than I am of my own virginity. Okay. I've been there almost every single time that I've had sex, and I'm more sure that OJ killed his ex-wife and her friend.

Then that you lost, that you've lost your virginity? Yeah, I could... If you came to me and you said, OJ, didn't do it, or you're still a virgin, I'd choose that I'm still a virgin first. All right. So I guess that goes a long way in saying how badly the trial was mismanaged, if you can't figure out how they called him. I can.

How they figured out he was guilty or whatever you said. And as we get into it, there's no way that we can fit all this into one episode. So this will be the first of two, and it's just going to get better and better. So, OJ. joins a gang and of course looking for whatever he was looking for probably acceptance and they nicknamed him waterhead

which in the olden days a waterhead was basically the R word it was a colloquialism that they used for the R word your waterhead because his head was so damn big and it was something that

I think he just grew to accept is this why he looks like a because like When you see him, he does not look like a big guy. I mean, he is a big guy, but when you look at him, comparatively to football players now, like running backs now, he's not a big guy.

So, you know, when you are like, oh, he's a running back, you would think huge. But is it also that when you see him, you see how big his head is, so it makes his body look smaller? It's just ginormous. He runs, I think, NFL, he was 6'1, 230 pounds. So, little on the heavier side for running back back then, a lot taller than what they would be. now and what they would be back then.

But his head was so big that... It was probably also the uniforms too. Because I was just thinking about it too. The shoulder pads were huge, big old baggy sleeves and everything. So it made even like big dudes look. He had an appearance that was larger, I'm sure, than what he was. He was really kind of larger than life in that respect. Yeah, he's just a big dude.

But, so he's in the gang, joins the gang, ends up getting arrested. There's controversy over that. He says that it was for a couple different things, but the best that we can figure out was that he was stealing beer for his buddies. So he's stealing beer for the gang, gets arrested, gets picked up in his teenage years,

ends up going to court for that. They don't give him any kind of jail time, but they do sentence him to community service, and they give him, like, a mentor in life. His mentor told him, you need to find something with your time. One of the other parts of what he did was they had told Eunice that Oge could never be like alone at his house after school because that's when he was hooking up with the gangbangers and that's when he was doing crazy stuff.

So the mentor hooks him up with the, I don't know if it was junior high middle school, what it was, but with the football team as the equipment manager. And so this is kind of OJ's first introduction to, to seeing football. He's out of his leg braces at this point. He's still very bow-legged. He can still tell as he's standing that there was something that went different.

But this was his introduction to something that he just fell in love with. And he saw these kids out there playing and did that for a little while. And then coming into high school, he just realized, I think I'm faster than these guys. I think I'm better than these guys. I think I can whoop all their asses.

They're never going to be able to catch me. So he goes and tells the coach that he wants to play. He doesn't want to be the manager anymore. He doesn't want to deal with the equipment. He just wants to play. Coach says, that sounds good. I'd love to get you on the team. Unfortunately, usually as the equipment manager should know this. We don't have a helmet that fits your big ass head. And so he goes back, tells the gang, hey, I'm kind of looking and playing football. I'd like to get into this. And they must have had some sort of love for him.

I'm sure if he was stealing beer and doing all that shit. But the Persian Warriors actually found him a helmet that would fit his head and got it for him. And he ended up playing that year. I think it was a sophomore year in high school and just absolutely went nuts. He was the kind of runner that like I say, you could always tell

that he ran a little bit different because of his legs but just nobody could catch him. When he was in high school playing football, did he get recruited by USC? And then when they found out his grades weren't good enough to go to USC, they

recommended he go to this other place and then transfer like was uc kind of like in control that whole situation they had suggested it he got recruits from i want to say like five or six major schools and wanted a piece of him because they had seen his high school tapes he was running all over everybody just left and right there was nobody that could stop so this was galileo high school in san francisco correct yep okay so he had a um he was just kind of the man at Galileo and I think that was kind of his first taste of fame and notoriety his best friend that will bop in and out of this story left and right because he just won't go away um al callings man that ac yep the man that drove the bronco the man that was kind of always in

his life he is dating a woman in high school dating a girl in high school and he kind of has an argument with her, tells Oge about it, Oge goes and talks to her and ends up talking her into dating him instead of A.C. And that's how he ends up meeting his first wife. You would think that

at that point, Al Kallings would be like, hey, you just stole my girlfriend. You're an asshole. Didn't affect him a bit. OJ was just that charming enough that he was able to talk Al into understanding and being okay with him taking his girlfriend and

There was a story one of his friends tells, and this will kind of reiterate how just loyal this guy was to OJ. One of them had found like a track starting pistol. And they were going to go, and they're like, we're going to pull this on O.J. And scare the shit out of him. And so one of the friends walks on to the football field, and OJ is standing there. And I think AC was standing there, you know, kind of next to him. and they pulled out the gunpointed at OJ and at

like AC stepped in front of OJ and he told me he's like if you're going to shoot OJ you've got to shoot me first so I mean this that's kind of yeah that already sets kind of the precedence for for the other stuff he's going to do well and

Al not only was so close to him in high school they played on the high school football team together and Al actually ended up following into USC and block for him at USC too so they took a very similar path I don't know if AC went to the college San Francisco to get his grades out too but he ends up following OJ all the way through college so he must have been decent or it was something where they wanted OJ said if you're going to take me you're going to take AC too yeah and he just always followed him around in his life

he just loved OJ he did whatever he could for OJ because I don't know if it was that they grew up together or maybe he looked up to OJ, but just unconditional friendship. I don't know if I would drive a getaway car for you, but I feel like, man, I probably wouldn't frame somebody for murder because of you. I don't, there's, we're very close. You're not, you're not my AC, Adam. I'm still, I'm still, I'm still searching for my AC. Okay, so he marries, uh, he meets Marguerite.

steals are from AC and then they get married Yeah, so he ends up attending to college of San Francisco because his grades were just that shitty and they had some standards to accept at USC that he had to accomplish

slices, dices, tears through the football field at San Fran USC brings him in, same year he gets to USC, he gets to USC, he marries marguerite

and so that would be early 1967 junior year happens he runs up a storm just left and right cannot be tackled scoring touchdowns 60 70 yard touchdowns that was kind of one thing that he was always known for was if there was going to be a big breakout touchdown

he was going to be the one to get away This is a dumb, unrelated question, but so he went to college of San Francisco, I'm guessing, for what, like two years? It would have had to have been because he doesn't have a sophomore year at USC. Okay, that's what I was going to ask, because it's junior year and then senior year at USC. So he used up his two years, or there was some type of change in eligibility, the way they do it today. I'm not 100% sure where that. There's a difference in, like, Juko rule, yeah, okay. Or maybe he was just dumb as shit and couldn't get his grades up his freshman year, so he went his sophomore year.

Gotcha. So, junior year, he ends up winning the Rose Bowl. They played UCLA, very close game. Oge ended up breaking out for, I believe, it was a 67-yard touchdown run to seal that game for him. And he was the runner-up at the Heisman that year, wasn't he? Yep. Okay. Yeah, that was the year in.

Funnily enough, he was the runner-up to the UCLA quarterback. That's right. And the UCLA quarterback, like, his biggest claim to fame after going to the NFL was he's like a very wealthy real estate agent in Southern California now. So he ended up pretty good, I guess. More better than OJ in the long run. 1968, OJ's senior year ends up winning the Hysman, ran for 1,700 yards and 22 touchdowns, which, again, for a little bit of understanding college they played, I believe it was 12 games that year.

So he was averaging well over 100 yards. a game. He was averaging a little less than two touchdowns a game. And he was so fast that they put him on the track team and he ended up running very close to a sub 10 100 meter dash which

is just crazy fast. And like I say, he wins the Heisman that year so he's enshrined in history as somebody who was the best in college football that year after being the same. second best last year. And at that point, the people in the NFL are going crazy.

The people in the NFL see the next big guy, the number one draft pick for sure. There's no chance that he's going to be a missed guy. He ran all over everybody in college. He's going to transition to the NFL, and that's just where he's going to be. Where does he go, Adam? Well, before we get there, around that time, just to kind of drive home the point that Ode wasn't necessarily I don't even know how to put it

He wasn't necessarily He was trying to fit in more than he was trying to be Him And Red A Rand this time is Vietnam's popping off So you're going to have Muhammad Ali

Coming out saying that he's not going to want to be a part Vietnam He's not going to be a part of the draft He's going to have to leave So A bunch of the black coalitions are going around to all the different black athletes in college and trying to explain to them that this process, this mechanism, these people don't make money if you aren't you.

You're what drives this. And this is right around the time that you see the, I wouldn't really call it protest, but when you see the black fist at the Olympics, the runners, that was all a part of this big deal that they were going over. It was the black power movement. Yeah. Yeah. And they were trying to get all these different athletes.

Well, they'd gone to OJ and they had told him, hey, you're the most influential football player in the world right now. You are the college god. You're more famous than 90% of, um,

NFL players. So they said, would you like to come out and make a statement in favor that says, you are who you are and you're proud to be black and you're proud to be a superstar. OJ answered him back and said, I'm not black. I'm OJ. Yeah, that's kind of a reoccurring theme I saw is he wanted to, like, in a way it's kind of, it's a nice thought, but the way he went about it, I don't know.

I don't think the way he went about it was correct, but he wanted to just be seen as OJ. he didn't it feels like to me watching you know the documentaries and everything is that you know he he he was selfish in that he only wanted the advancement of oj and he and he wasn't going to try to take any hits from anybody else that would go ahead and set him back i remember he he was quoted as saying something about like his responsibility is to like himself and his family and that's kind of where the buck ended on that and i mean these weren't like the guys that were with Muhammad Ali I remember seeing that and these weren't just like amateur guys these were guys that went on to have like professional sporting careers

that they were you know all-stars in their own right well and it was even professional athletes yeah the runners and everybody that were joining in the track athletes the NBA players everybody was on this movement well it was so like just some of the bigger names kareem Abdul Jabar, Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Carl Stokes. I mean, you're talking about NFL royalty, NBA royalty, sprinting royalty. And they're asking this guy from college, coming out of college, to try to be a voice in this movement. And he's just like, no, no thanks.

He was just that big of a deal. They wanted as much support as they could, and he couldn't even give him that, which I don't know if it's a trait that he has or if it's a chippleness. shoulder, but he almost doesn't want to be seen as a black man. He doesn't really care to carry that he wants to transcend his race. He wants, yeah, he just doesn't want to have any association with anything negative. I don't mean to keep harper on this, but it just plays such a big role in everything else that he's done because living in Brentwood, living in a predominantly white area, he was known as the mayor of Brentwood. Yeah. And when you carry that kind of favor and you are that

famous and everybody knows you it unfortunately comes with a lot of benefits that common people just will never see. And not necessarily that black folks don't get the benefit of the doubt because I don't think that they do. I think that they're looked at a little bit

differently. But understatement. But he didn't want not only the benefit of a doubt, he wanted to be above. That's why he didn't want people to seem as black because he didn't want them to associate

any of their negative feelings towards black people on him. It was just so terrible because he, and I'm sure that they all still looked up to him. I'm sure that the community looked up to him because he was them out there on that field. They saw themselves in him out there slicing and dicing every single week. And so I'm sure that he was still. Just cutting up the offense or the defense.

No stone unturned. I wonder, do you think he wore gloves? I never looked at his hands when he was playing. Do you think he wore gloves to secure the ball? They were probably all too small. Again, another common theme in his life. So he ends up getting drafted. Am I okay to proceed to the NFL?

Yeah, yep. Okay. So he ends up getting picked by Buffalo, and for the first three years played, I mean, what they would consider, either what? Was it, did he play poorly in comparison to the expectations, Or did he play poorly just for a running back? He got more of a raw deal out of it

because he went to a team that was more focused on a passing offense, which I assume that he was taken number one by Buffalo just because everybody said you're an idiot if you don't take OJ first. And so ending up in Buffalo, he's an offense that's more pass-heavy. They don't get him a lot of handoffs, but when he's getting those few fleeting moments, he just isn't doing what he should. Did he play with Jim Kelly or was that in the early 90s?

And OJ was already out by that. Jim Kelly was, I think they started 91 maybe? On that run, like that three-year run, okay. Late 80s, early 90s. So this was before Thurmond Thomas. This was before anybody had really been in Buffalo that was a superstar. How much do you think that also was playing in Buffalo or him not liking being in Buffalo? because I mean he's used to playing his entire college career in California

whether it's beautiful most time or else there's a little bit of rain but you go to Buffalo and you're playing in miserable shit for half your games and just growing up even not even just college growing up in California there's not a lot of bad days that happened in California weather-wise I'm sure that played a part he it was kind of like he had so many irons in the fire at that point because he had already kind of started taking acting classes around this time. He knew that he wanted to be more than just an NFL player. He had already had, Margarita had already had their first kid.

I'm sure transitioning to Buffalo was definitely hard for him because it was on the other side of the country. And he was used to imagine the like going from being right in the thick of being a celebrity. Because that's what he was. I think he got, you know, at his time as in USC or at USC, yeah, he was basically. a celebrity. He was the first what major black college athlete that was like celebrity status. There might have been

some, I'm sure there was some before, but there were, but when you grow up in Southern California and you're at USC, you're in Los Angeles, you're right there. I think isn't SC in San Diego, like their stadium is, but it's right on the border, I think. No, it's

down to Los Angeles? Yeah. Oh, it's the Roosevelt. Maybe Reggie Bush had the 619 under his eyes because he was from San Diego. Maybe. That would make sense. But you're in Hollywood. You're there.

Your name's out there. You're going out, even if you're not going out to clubs, bars, or anything like that, you're being noticed. There's a constant just like nightlife around you. You're used to being able to go and do anything

and, you know, people recognize you everywhere, and then you're just like, boom, Buffalo. Which I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Buffalo. What I'm saying is OJ is the type of person that I think obviously we're going to get into patterns that display this, but I think he was somebody that needed to go ahead and be in the spotlight at all times. Yeah, and that's, I'm sure, to go to a team that was a pass-heavy team

where he wasn't getting the ball 20, 30 times was probably something that really hurt him. And not to mention, at this point, it kind of bears needing to say, but he already wasn't faithful to Marguerite at this time. He's already stepping out on her, which I know is a big shock. You're telling me, this guy who married this girl in high school or right out of high school, after becoming a superstar, highman winning, running back, starts fucking around. Yeah, it's a shocker. With as much as he wanted the fame and the intention, I'm shocked that it even took that long.

he just was he needed that love he needed that adoration from everybody around him and i don't know if i don't know if this is true didn't he in the offseason he didn't stay in buffalo during the off season i know that's nothing new the players have homes in different areas that they you know they live in on the off season but didn't he go back to california every off season well in that point in time he had signed that i believe it was the richest rookie contract that an NFL player had ever signed so he was making a shitload of money and back in that time in the late 60s early 70s I want to say it was like 400,000 a year he's playing for or maybe that was I think it was 400,000 a year really the number

sounds small because it's the 70s it's before all the major TV contracts it's before all the big sales so after the three years there he finally kind of catches a break it looks like he gets a coach that basically comes in and he had his first coach for two years, second coach comes in, kind of runs the same shit, and ends up in a passing offense

doesn't do well. He gets fired after one year and in 1972 they bring in a guy named Lou Sabin who unfortunately I'd love to tie him to him the closest I got was distant cousins not related to Nick Saban. Okay. You hear

Here's Sabin, that's the first thing you think of. So Saban comes in in 72, decides to build the whole offense around OJ. He's giving him handoffs like crazy. I want to say that that first year he averaged somewhere around 29 carries a game, which nowadays is kind of unheard of for a guy to get. He just is that much of a workhorse. And still not a good team. They still suck.

They're not putting up a whole lot of wins. That's the other kind of sad thing. not sad. I can't ever use the word sad with OJ because there's nothing that I ever feel that's like sad for him. I'm never bummed out about him. Yeah. But he never played for a good team. In 1973,

which arguably could be considered one of the best running back seasons ever, he ends up breaking that 2000 yard mark like we were talking about. And 2003 yards he ran for during that season. And this was when I believe the NFL's a 13 game season? I think it was 13 games.

I don't think they'd gone 14, 15, 16, and now 17. So, everybody beyond OJ, that broke the 2000 yard mark had 16 games to do it. OJ did it in 13. It's unheard of. Most yards per carry a game, I want to say in college, in college he was averaging, and this is a first down is 10 yards. he averaged 9.7 yards of carry his first year at USC. Jesus.

So he was almost rushing for a first down every time he touched the ball. So comes to the NFL, ends up most yards per carry, most yards per game, just breaking records left and right, 73 after all these years in the doldrums, one decent year ends up winning the MVP of the league. And like I say, they still weren't good, so it wasn't anything that was phenomenal, but the man just couldn't be stopped.

OJ was the focus of that season for Buffalo. It was to see if OJ would do it and not really them being a contender. Their season wasn't about winning. They knew that OJ was basically their ticket to getting on TV. Next two years, 74 and 75, he still does well. He still, I want to say he rushed over 700 yards both of those seasons, but kind of plagued by injury. wasn't really doing everything that he could out there,

I think, just because Buffalo still sucked. Wait, did you see it rushed over 700 yards? Excuse me, yeah. That's not very much. No, but at the same time, you're talking 13-game season. Oh, I guess that's true. He's still...

It's such a stark contrast between the 2000 and the 7. And he's missing games with different injuries he had. I think it was an ankle on a couple of the things that... Didn't people start to kind of realize, too, that he started kind of backing off the gas a little bit during these final seasons. Or he started slowing down at some point because he was like, I'm trying to look forward to my future. He's like, I'm not looking to go ahead and get hurt.

That was kind of right around the time where he gets traded to San Francisco and ends his career. But after those kind of had two meddling seasons, he breaks out just, again, just goes nuts on him again. Just back to OJ form, 15103 yards. that season, eight touchdowns, ran for a record 273 yards on Thanksgiving Day.

And it was against the Bears and he just gashed him every single time, just runs up the middle, he would plow right through the line and go for forever. Just poking holes in the line? They couldn't... In almost a, you know,

like a thrusting motion? Yeah, they're just... The defense couldn't stop them. You penetrated them every time you had a chance. that was kind of his his magnum opus I wouldn't say because he still played a lot of years after that but it was kind of his last big major season

it was kind of downhill from there yeah he headed off to San Francisco for two years they weren't great but he was playing back in his hometown he was playing back for the people that he grew up around he at this point him Marguerite have three kids. Everybody's back in California.

Everybody's close. I'm sure he has a new stable of women that he's fraternizing with. Marguerite will never say that her and O.J. had a physical confrontation ever. She said that they argued a lot. They had a lot of issues. But she's never gone out on record and said that they never had a physical confrontation, which we find out earlier or we find out later on.

down the line after some of the things that happened, McCollah happened after the murder specifically, that police are starting to fess up to saying that they had gone to OJ's house back in that time when him and Marguerite were together, they had separated them. She had looked like she was beaten up. So all in all, a very proud woman.

I think that she was a good person, and I think that it was very unfortunate. Not the most unfortunate person to meet O.J., But she lives through a lot of hell for a long time. Yeah, I would imagine. Okay, so at that point, is he getting ready to retire? He knows that the writing's on the wall. He knows that his best years are behind him.

And he really had those aspirations at this point. He had already done a couple things in the movies just to kind of wet his beak and being an actor. Was he the spokesperson? for Hurt at this point? He got the national campaign for Hertz. His other sponsors, R.C. Cola,

shick raisers, Wilson's sporting goods, tree sweet orange juice, shocker there. Chevrolet, ABC, he had, he was a national spokesman for a company called Pioneer Chicken

and even owned, I think it was five or six franchises in California at the time. They obviously are under. some, it was another company, it might have been Popeyes, that ended up buying all their retail space. Oh, okay. Dingo Boots, he was a

cowboy boot, man. Very funny old commercials. You could see when you watch the old commercials and go ahead and Google him and look them up for dingo boots, pioneer chicken. He's got it. He knows his voice inflections, he knows that act,

he great smile. He was an excellent sponsor. Jesus, spokesperson. There we go. Cough syrup. Well, I was going to say, so he also, there's a couple movies that he plays in

that were actually, like, serious, like, dramatic roles. About as serious as you can get. One of them was, I think I want to say it was a movie about, like, the Apollo Space Mission, and they'd wanted this actually, like, stage-trained actor to play in it, but the studio forced them to take O.J. in because of his, essentially the appeal in star power. You could see that.

And I don't think they feel like he performed very well in it, but it was enough... Oh no, they were actually surprised at how well he performed it. There was like a scene where he was on Mars or something like that. It was some type of space movie. But they got him to do a... He was like dehydrated and like delirious and everything. And he couldn't like talk because his mouth was so like dry.

And what the director actually did is they put prosthetics on his mouth to not be able to let him close his mouth. So he had to struggle through that. He was actually like struggling through kind of the makeup and the prosthetics. Huh. And that's what made him like, he's like, uh, uh, I'm sorry. It worked to their dance. It worked, yeah. So they kind of made up for his inability to do certain acting by forcing him to do something that would actually yield like an acting result.

And it was very weird, I'm sure. I don't mean to point that out as less serious than a role that he had had in, I believe it was 1977, but he was actually in Roots. Was he? Yeah. He was in the, it must have been a miniseries back then, because it is now. That is what it was. It was always a miniseries, I thought.

When they played it even back then, or was it one long movie? I don't know. But I know that it's actually, yeah. I think it's a miniseries. I think it's always been a miniseries. Or maybe they showed it as like a one-night event. It was like five hours. I don't know.

I just remember from that 70s show. They tried to record it and they couldn't. So he's en route. 1967, even before that, he was in the TV series Dragnet, which before the movie that we mentioned. Wait, what year was that? 196, or shit, 1977. I was going to say, okay, yeah, so not when he was in college.

So 77. I didn't have been 67. I don't know. I haven't written down. probably did a poor job of researching, but ends up hosting SNL, 1978, which I'm sure was a big deal back then. Is that the golden years of SNL?

Was that Belushi and Akroyd? Yeah, but I mean, even if it's not the golden years, that's still a pretty, to be an athlete at that time when I don't think they were having a ton of athletes and they weren't really, you know, like celebrities in that kind of like regard. But I guess because of it's cross-sum, over he I mean he he appealed to so many people that's what's so crazy is he seemed to have had

everything he seemed to have just been kind of like the guy everybody liked charismatic as hell and yeah like you say he just he kind of fit the mold wherever he needed to he was a gumby of sorts that could really contort himself into whatever role he needed to be to make people happy so kind of during this time too in 77 that's when he first meets Nicole and she's working it Where was she working? She was working at, I believe it was called the Daisy. It was like a bar on the strip. She was just a cocktail waitress.

She was 18. Yeah. And I believe at this point, he was like 32, maybe 33? Probably. Something like that. I think that's what you said it was. But I remember seeing that he was with one of his buddies and saw her working and immediately looked at his buddy and was like, I'm going to marry her.

And keep in mind, he's also married to Margarie. at this time. And it seems like the scariest omen ever to know that a guy that will go on to kill you says I'm going to have that girl. And so much of it too is that was his

feel and his appeal. He knew that if he wanted something bad enough he could get it because obviously overcoming rickets, overcoming gang life, things like that, to be a superior athlete and to go into the NFL, he wanted to be the greatest at everything.

thing they did, and I'm sure that didn't end at the field. Well, no, but you got also, like the way I look at it, too, is from the time that he was at USC and a star at USC, you know, how much trouble did he get into back then? That was all just swept under the rug because of who he was. How much trouble did he get in, you know, his junior and senior years? Did he get into trouble when he was in Buffalo? You know, I'm not talking like serious, serious trouble, but things that a normal person would be probably booked and arrested for. I'm not saying he didn't. I don't know.

But what I'm saying is that, like, the kind of attitude he has where he feels like there was a pattern of him getting away, would have to be a pattern of him getting away with things, to make him think that he could always get away. You know, cheating on his wife. That goes on for two years until he finally divorces her in, like, 79. Yeah, so in 1977, when he meets Nicole, his wife is still his wife, and she is very pregnant.

So he's got another kid on the way, and he is out fraternizing with an 18-year-old Nicole. And he ends up dating her for a while, just a little background on Nicole, because really this whole thing, everybody does this. There's a million podcasts on it, I hope that we do it better, and I'm sure with as much research as I've done, it's going to be very good. Oh, fuck, train of thought. Oh, about just podcasts and stories about them is it's always about OJ. And obviously this whole thing is going to be, not the whole thing,

but a good majority of it's going to be about OJ because he's the only person living out of this to be a part of it. So Brown was born May 19th, 1959 in Frankfurt, Germany, to Judith and to Lewis. Her mother was German and her father was an American. moving to the United States, she attended Rancho Alamitos High School in Garden Grove, California. She graduated from Dana Hills High School, Dana Point, California in 1976. So like you said, she was still 18, fresh out of high school when she meets O.J. And you have to think his allure at that point, everybody was something because he was in a higher-end club down in California. but she sees this great charismatic guy

that's coming close to the end of an NFL career. He's back in San Francisco at this time. So he's a fixture in California again. He's not running his game from Buffalo anymore. He's back home. And I'm sure the relationship that they started, which by all accounts they had said was love at first sight, I guess, between the two of them,

that it was a very passionate, courting process you'd say I'm sure they were yeah I don't even want to get into that I'm sorry but like 18 year olds are dumb I was done as fuck when I was 18 18 year olds don't know what the fuck they're doing you you like introduce an 18 year old

to a famous millionaire and that's not love that's infatuation and I and OJ being fucking OJ you know being able to he there was I'm trying to remember who's

said if it was one of his buddies. But they're saying one of his gifts is he could find out how he needed to interact with you to get the best possible outcome. He had this ability to act a certain way around you that made you feel so comfortable that it would almost like you were willing to do whatever he needed you to do. He could pick that out in people.

And I'm sure it was something that he learned from a young age because he had to have used that same technique to get a hold of Marguerite the first time. He had to have used that same technique to get back in AC's Good Graces after he stole his girlfriend. And there was so much of this, like we said before,

he's not a split personality, but there's just two OJs at all times. He's somebody who, later on, after the murders, and after the trial and everything, where he's going on to talk shows and he's talking to people who truly believed that he murdered his ex-wife and her friend. And by the end of these interviews, they're cheering for him.

They're on his side. They want to like him. Wherever he goes, he just wants to be liked. So after he divorces Marguerite in 1979, at what point do him and Nicole get married? Is it pretty quick? It was... Didn't write that down.

When did O.J. Get get married. The first things were like, arrested, convicted. It was a while because it was February 2nd, 1985. Okay, so yeah. Groundhogs Day, 1985. Did they have any kids? They ended up having two.

One of them was Justin. The other one was Symphony. Or, Sydney, Jesus. He had Andre, or, Andell, Jason, and Aaron from his first wife from Marguerite. And unfortunately, his youngest Aaron, ended up drowning in their pool. That's right. And it was after they had already been divorced for a couple years.

And OJ's megalomaniac brain has him saying in an interview that that is what ruined the marriage between him and Marguerite. That's when their marriage went south. Not putting the math together. This common theme of OJ just not being smart and not being good in mind. He said this after they were already divorced. Yes. Like two years after they were divorced. He said that that was the issue.

It wasn't the adultery. It wasn't the beatings. It wasn't the arguments. It wasn't everything that was going on behind closed doors. It was his daughter drowning in the pool at home. And that was what sealed the deal, which again, two years prior. It's just, it's another lie that he, comes up with to try to make him sound like a guy who needs sympathy.

What kind of happens with him between, like, 79 and 89? He's all over the big screen, not the big screen that made for TV movies. He starts doing broadcasting too, doesn't he? He ended up broadcasting Monday Night Football. He's a sideline reporter, I think. Or he's the, yeah, he's the guy down on the sideline that he was like, interviewing to coaches and players, I think. He worked with a couple

very famous guys. He was a part of a lot of big broadcast. Drawing a blank. Let's take a pee break for a second. Then we'll get back to it. So what did he do? He was a part of the Monday Night Football cast.

As a sideline reporter in the booth from 83 to 85, he worked with Frank Gifford, Howard CoSell, Don Meredith, all these legends. in the broadcasting game and the football game, he was just the man again. Not only was he back in football,

but he was doing it on the grandest stage again. Everybody tuned into the Monday night games, everybody wanted to listen to him announce. They wanted to throw it to Oge on the sidelines, the juice is down on the sidelines, his loose on the sidelines, let's go to him, see what he's got for us. I'm sure he probably wasn't goose

in any of the cheerleaders down there. He probably kept his hands to him. himself. Yeah, I'm sure he did. Okay, so in 1989 there's the New Year's incident. So the police over the course of, is it just that one New Year's that are called eight times? It was basically... Or is that over the course of like a longer period of time? It was over the course of their whole marriage and Nicole kind of looked the other way on the infidelity because

when he would cheat and she would find out, he would always use the excuse of, well, we're not married so it doesn't count, which that's not how you do things. That's not an excuse. And unfortunately, it was something that she wanted to believe. And I'm sure so much of her life she was told things that she wanted to believe by juice, that it was just kind of her natural reaction was just say, okay, these things are going to get better. So eight times between 84 and 89 when they were married, they had been called by the police,

or the police had been called seven times at that point because the police just wouldn't do anything. He would beat her. There were instances where she would be outside standing on top of the car and the windshield on the car would be shattered and OJ would be holding a bat. They would ask her what happened. She would say he went nuts.

chase me out. He accused me of cheating. He accused me of doing drugs. Anything from going out with her friends and not telling him just every single thing that OJ felt he needed to take out on her, he would take out on her. Just the disgust

of the shit that he did to this poor lady, he would rip on her and make fun of her and tear her down for every pound that she would gain when she was pregnant. Well, I remember seeing testimony or an interview. with the police officer.

I don't know if it was the seventh or eighth time. So they get a domestic disturbance call. He goes out there. She comes running down. And at this time they're in Brentwood. So I don't think we cover that. So he ends up moving to Brentwood, which what you were saying,

it's a really wealthy neighborhood in L.A. County. Yeah, it's kind of closer to like Santa Monica. Okay. So he's literally like the only black guy in this entire neighborhood. But the neighborhood loves having him there because it's OJ and they all have this specific view of OJ. He's a star.

They even said he used to be like the first black guy that was allowed to come into certain country clubs in California. There were a couple country clubs that, and all the guys, even the guys that were racist, wanted to go and have their pictures taken with OJ. Yeah, he was the kiddies' titties at that point. He was somebody that everybody wanted a photo op with, which I'm sure it's fun nowadays looking back at old pictures.

Like, hey, Zake. Are you and OJ? Yeah. So she ends up calling 911 during this specific incident. And they get an officer up there. He drives up to O.J.'s house. He's aware that it is O.J. Simpson's house, I think. Oh, yeah.

They were there so much that it was a pretty common occurrence. So she comes running out and brawn sweats saying he's going to kill me. He actually comes out. O.J. comes out and is, like, looking through the gate or something like that. and I don't know if he says anything or he might have said something, but it was enough to where, did he say something to the cop? Oh, yeah. What do you say?

He comes out, he yells at the cops, he says, you guys have been here eight times before and haven't done anything. Why are you doing anything now? And then he goes on to say, this is a family matter that should be handled in the house between me and Nicole. This doesn't involve you. Domestic violence, that she calls the police on him. as she's all beat up, she'd been choked, she'd been punched in the face.

And he saw that she had signs of domestic abuse. I mean, her face was. So at that point, I just couldn't remember exactly what it was that prompted him to attempt the arrest. So he started reading him his rights and actually told him that he was being placed under arrest. Didn't he allow him to go and get a jacket or a shirt on or something like that? And then literally he just leaves out the back door. And does he, is it the Bronco that he takes? No. No, it's a different car.

Oh, he sees him in like a Bentley or like... It's a blue Bentley. Yeah. So he gets in a Bentley and he literally sees like a side gate open and the blue Bentley just takes off. Yeah, just couldn't even be bothered to be arrested. They told him to go inside to get dressed and be arrested. So at this time, like you, you don't just get out of an arrest if you're able to get away from the person arresting you. It's not like that.

So he technically is still, this cop has said he's like, I'm, at this point he is still in the process of being arrested. Yeah. His narcissistic tendencies kicked in so much to think that he could just drive away and the problem would go away. But they didn't go and arrest him. Didn't he have to turn himself in like days later? Never ended up getting

arrested for it. He leaves that night. They go. They chase him. They try to get him. He obviously loses them in the streets. And then doesn't the cop actually he said he kept the arrest report or he kept his file from that, the report from that incident? Because

he had done some research prior after he got back to the station and found out that it had happened previously and he was afraid that because nothing had been done, something was being done to the police reports. So he kept a copy of it himself so that if he ever went back or something happened and they went back to the police reports

he would have the original to show what had happened in the incident. It wouldn't be like them reviewing a doctored police report. Just his own personal record of it. He kept it because he knew something was going to... He's like, I have you know, I have a feeling something's going to happen. Well, and the other really bad thing about it is, after he gets away, the officer that tried to arrest him, and one of the ones that was involved in the chase, comes back to Nicole. He asks her if she's okay, if she needs medical assistance again, she says no.

He says, come down to the station, let's get some documentation of this, let's take some pictures of what's going on. That way we have the record, which I'm sure we were talking about, was something that he kept. She agrees, goes down to the station. Takes the pictures, goes back to Rockingham that night. And just kind of for reference, there's going to be three major points that come out of this. There's going to be the Rockingham Estate, which is where he lives and where him and Nicole lives or lived. There's going to be Bundy residence, which is the apartment that Nicole moves out into, which is where the murder takes place. And then there's going to be the Bronco that's on the side street.

Those are kind of the three hot points of where they're going to. going to find the bulk of their evidence okay so oge comes back home that night Nicole's obviously home and rockingham is in Brentwood just just for Clarification so we're not mixed up yeah Brentwood is the community the neighborhood rockingham is the name of the estate his his place okay call comes back the next day talks to Nicole asked her what she wants to do as she wants to proceed she tells them that they had talked about it that night everything was okay she had covered for him and just basically wanted the whole thing to go away. She said they wanted to handle it themselves.

Luckily, because of the documentation, when the police officer did turn in his report, OJ was still charged. I believe it was battery. Is that when he pleads no contest? So he pleads no contest dispels of battery. It's like $750 in fines. He sentenced to community service, which it was, I think, 200 hours, right? Yeah. Do you know what he is?

Yes. He is able to, let me see if I can describe this correctly. He spends 200 hours organizing a celebrity charity golf tournament. And he also gets to play in the tournament as part of the community service hours because that's what he put together for charity. And it's a charity event. So he gets to write all that off. He told them that he couldn't actually do. present at the counseling sessions because he was such a big deal and had to travel around and do

all this stuff that he talked them into actually teleconferencing into these counseling sessions he couldn't even be bothered to go see a counselor that the police appointed to him and just like you were talking about with everything else that he seems to squeeze away get away ends up cutting himself a hole to get out he goes into the same thing again so they they'll they allow him to do so much with either Little the Gulf charity community service

to no repercussions. $750 fine? Nothing. All of it's just nothing. He gets away Scott Freight every single time. There was an incident that Nicole writes about in her diary

and subsequently in a letter to him later on that they find in her safety deposit box that said they got into a fight one night so bad and he beat the shit out of her so bad that they took her in to get x-rays on her face because he had broken her face and she told the x-ray technician and the doctor that she had fallen off a bike and that was what happened and of course the doctor looks at this and says those are fistmarks that's not you hitting a lock with your face and goes through all the questioning of was this an accident that actually happened, talked to OJ about it, story matched up.

It wasn't anything that they could do, but they did kind of keep a log of it to make sure that somebody, if this ever came back up, it was going to be a situation that they had record of. So finally, after all this shit, she files for divorce in 92. Which sounds like it would be an ending to the relationship, but it really just intensified. Not for the juice. No, the juice was about to get loose in divorce. And that was the other thing that we missed in 89 at the New Year's attempted arrest, was as he was walking back inside, he turned around and told the cops to take Nicole

because he had two other women inside in his bed. Which that was how the fight initially started, they believe, was OJ was humping some other chick in another bed and then came into bed with Nicole and obviously she's going to be a little angry about that and he couldn't stand it. It was almost like she was an acquisition for him. She wasn't even, she was a trophy.

That's all it was. She was another trophy that he could add to her trophy cakes. Well, and then he couldn't have her anymore. It wasn't on his terms that it ended. No. He didn't get to end it on his terms. So in that sense, she was still a possession to him. And not to mention the narcissistic tendencies that just keep popping up everywhere,

his narcissism is unfettered. It just never ends. Even until today, it's still there and it's still just glaring. But he just starts stalking her left and right. Just everywhere she goes, she tells her sister, everywhere he goes, I go. I look in my rearview mirror, his Broncos there. I look behind me at the gym. Jim, he's there. I'm getting coffee. He's there. He's just everywhere. And she's letting people know

at this point that it is happening. Well, she starts dating like a restaurateur for a while. And they're out, I think, at, is he a restaurant tour? I'm trying to remember. She starts dating this guy. And he's, you know, he's not OJ wealthy or OJ famous. But she's dating this guy and they're out to dinner one night. And OJ., it was like, right before I think they were finally divorced because they were separated for a little while before the divorce actually occurred. But it was right before they actually got divorced.

She was out on a date and he comes up to their table. Knew where they were. Comes up to the table and just looks at Nicole and he's like, that's my wife. And the guy was talking about, he's like, you know, I know who he was. I stood my ground. I didn't show that I was intimidated by him.

of course I, you know, was a little bit and everything. But apparently that, I don't think that was the only incident where he had confronted her when she was with someone else. He confronted her in a club when she was out with another guy at one point. And this is probably the most well-known stalking incident that had happened that he had. But she's out in a club with this poor fella who I'm sure probably. knew who OJ was but he saw a beautiful blonde Nicole Simpson and just wanted to be with her. They're out of the club and as she's passing through on the dance floor, OJ shows up. OJ walks up to her and asks her what she's doing, who she's there with.

The guy that she's there with ends up seeing him, sees that he doesn't look very happy, goes away. later on he's questioned about this he says that he was at the club with a bunch of different people didn't even know that Nicole was there hadn't ever run into her or anything like that

they leave the club go back to her house what they thought was just Nicole and the guy that she was dating that night and juice ends up peeking in her window and sees them getting down

obviously that sparks a lot of anger in him, which he was just always quick to anger. Is this at Rockingham or is this at her apartment? This was at her apartment. This wasn't at Rockingham. Oge was still there. And ends up beating on the door, just going nuts, start raving mad outside. She opens the door.

He comes in, gets in the guy's face, just starts, this is my wife, this is my woman, she's mine, you shouldn't be touching her. I saw what happened, just going nuts. Nicole pulls him into a room. The guy's sitting out front, just listening to OJ scream and yell and go nuts in there. Doesn't he come out and he shakes his hand and he's like, sorry, man. You know how it is or something shit like that. They walk out of the room.

OJ's finally calmed down, walks right back up to the guy, which I'm sure he's shitting his pants after he just heard him freaking out in the room, shakes his hand and says, I'm a proud man, you know what that's like, right? And then leaves. So he's anywhere. She is, he's going to be, he's going to try to intimidate anybody that she's around. Somebody else that will come up very soon. Cato Caitlin was a guy that lived in...

He lived in a guest house on the property, right? Yep, he lived in Juice's guest's house. After the divorce happens and Nicole moves out and moves into Bundy, he was actually her friend. Cato was. They had met in Aspen skiing and become friends. He came out and was trying to be a male model. acting thing and all that. He was going to end up moving in with Nicole at her apartment and Nicole and the kids,

obviously part time then. And OJ pulls him aside. They have a little talk and Cato says that him and OJ decided together that it wouldn't look right for a young single woman to be living in a house with a bachelor and ends up saying if you don't go live with her, I'll let you live in. my guest house for free. You don't have to pay any rent. You'd have to pay with Nicole. Stick around here. Be my buddy. Hang out with me. Everything's good. Nobody's questioning Nicole living with some guy that wasn't me.

Which just another, she's his possession. She doesn't want the image. Yeah, it's just another method of control. To look bad. Yeah. Denying her something, having her friend there, while at the same time being old to go ahead and keep, I don't know, keep tabs on her through Kato. Well, and I'm sure keeping Cato there not letting him go was he didn't want that image that they were broken up. He always wanted Nicole to be attainable for him and have everybody

around him like we've talked about that image that front that he keeps up. He wanted everybody to believe that him and Nicole were still working things out that they were going to get back together. Which unfortunately things are going to take somehow an even darker turn. What do we got? June 7th

there's a call to a woman's shelter that they believe... It's in 94, right? Yeah, 94, okay. They believe that it was Nicole. She called the women's shelter and was saying that she was being stalked and beaten by her ex-husband

and that she needed help. During a couple of the calls that she had made to the police, when OJ would stalk her and break into her apartment, the police would, or the dispatcher would ask, who is it? And she would say, it's OJ. You know who he is.

you know his tendencies, you know his history. So this was fairly well known at this point, just how bad it was. And whether it was her talking to them or whether it was them coming out and seeing the domestic violence calls, they had to be fairly sure about what was going on. So June 12, so five days later, Nicole and her family, they're after dinner at, is it, Mesaluna? Mezzaluna and was wrong with him. He worked at Mesolina. That's right.

He was a waiter. Like the coincidence is really weird. Yeah. How it makes it sound. So she's out to dinner with her family. They go back to Nicole's apartment. Yeah. And her mother had forgotten her glasses at dinner.

Yep. So left him there at the restaurant. They had just left a dance recital for OJ's daughter with Nicole. And OJ was there. She didn't save him a seat. this was like the night that Nicole was going to say we're done I can't deal with you anymore she told her sister earlier that day

that she wanted to be free she wanted to live her life she wanted a second act basically and that she was going to tell OJ that they were done so he doesn't come to dinner with him he leaves the recital by himself they go to dinner him and Cato supposedly had gone to McDonald's that night he told police they'd gone he'd had a big Mac he described what he ate just tried to cover all

spaces and Cato told the same story so there's a good chance that they actually did go do that before things happen. Okay so Nicole's mom forgets her glasses at the restaurant. Ron is still working there at the time. So between the time frame that Ron leaves work, I don't know if he, I'm trying to remember the details, I don't believe he left work to go take the glasses. I think he was just going to grab them at the end of his shift and bring them to Nicole's because her parents weren't there at the time. He was leaving to go out that night and just took the envelope with the glasses in it, said, hey, I'll run these by Nicole's house.

Goes home, he ends up getting dressed for a hot night out, which Ron and Nicole had met each other. They were introduced by somebody that Ron was neighbors with in a coffee shop one day, struck up a friendship. They would go to the gym a lot. There was no... He was like an aspiring actor or model or something like that, wasn't he? Just an absolute great guy.

And I got to get into him. him because he he deserves this he's probably the most unfortunate person in this story just because he he literally did not see it coming well no and he was at the wrong just it's you know he knew that oj knew where nicole was and i'm not saying that it's not a tragedy please don't take it like that but it's just with ron it just happens to literally be a situation of wrong place at the wrong time well and he was such a good guy too he was born in He was born on July 2nd, 1968, grew up in Buffalo Grove, Illinois, which was near Chicago. His parents divorced in 1974, and when he was six years old, his mom ended up abducting him and his older sister.

And took them away from the dad, told them that dad didn't want you anymore, so I took you. Dad fights as hard as he can to get him and his sister back, ends up getting him and his sister back. then they move out to move away from the situation. Mom never enters their life again. And they move out to California. So when he was, I believe, 14 years old, him or his sister were 14 years old, they were going out to get ice cream, something like that. His dad, Ron, and his sister end up getting hit by a drunk driver.

And big crash, cars on fire. Ron actually gets back inside the car to save his sister's life as police are getting there pulls her out of a burning wreck she ended up having third degree burns on a good portion of her body but ended up saving her life as a kid like just as his sister and their bond was incredible we'll talk later on after the trial about what their family's done because they've done just a lot of great things yeah he was a camp counselor um he volunteered and spent time with kids that had some type of disability

or? Yeah, cerebral palsy. Okay. Is what it was. So he was a, he just tried it everything that he did. He did a year of college,

decided that it wasn't for him. And that was initially when they moved to California or he moved to be back with his family and moved to Brent Wood. Brent was incredibly high. He held three or four different jobs

while trying to be a model and an actor. He ultimately wanted to own his own restaurant, which I'm sure Mezzaluna was hopping back then, and I'm sure it was something that he saw and that he wanted and thought that he could have for himself. So ends up leaving to Gordo Nicole's, getting ready to go out on the night. Like I said, there had never been any real talk of them being together.

They had both kind of dated on and off on knowing each other. They were just friends. and he shows up at the house and this is where things get very, very fishy. So here's kind of a breakdown of what they have the suspected time frame of just to kind of provide context. So we've got through

at 9.15 is when 9.15 p.m. is when one of Nicole's sisters calls Mezzaluna to say that Nicole's mother left her glasses. Wrong woman volunteers returned the glasses. So somewhere between 9 and 9.30, Cato Caelin and OJ go to McDonald's

is what they say 945 Kaelin and Simpson get home 948 to 950 That's when Goldman leaves the restaurant With the white envelope

Continuing glasses 1045 or sorry 1015 so roughly half an hour later While watching television Pablo Fen Fen was the neighbor of Nicole Brown Simpson

hears the cries And constant barking of a dog So that's a 1015 1025, limousine driver Alan Park arrives at Simpson's house. 1040, Cato hears three loud thumps on an outside wall of his room. 1040 to 1050, Park buzzes intercom several times but does not get any response. So at this point, the limo driver has been outside his house for half an hour. About half an hour, a little bit less.

At 1055, so half an hour later, Park calls his boss and tells him Simpson is not at home. He's told to wait until 1115 since Simpson is always late. Shortly before 11, Park sees a black person six feet, 200 pounds, walking across the driveway toward the house. Which isn't suspicious at all? Yeah, walking out across the driveway toward the house. About 11 p.m., Cato Caelan goes to the front of the house to check on the noise. He sees the limousine driver at the gate. Several seconds later, Park again buzzes the intercom and Simpson answers.

He says he had overslept and just gotten out of the shower. 11 to 1115, Simpson puts his bags in the limousine. They leave for the Los Angeles Airport. He arrives at the airport at 1135. 1145, he leaves on American... Damn, he arrives 10 minutes before the flight. He's O.J. Apparently, okay.

Security wasn't a thing for him. Simpson leaves on an American Airlines flight, Chicago, to go play in the Hertz, Renaccar golf celebrity like pro-am tournament or something. And then at 12, 10 a.m., the body's been to Colbert. on Simpson and Ronald Goldman are discovered outside her townhouse. About 5 a.m. Detectives Mark Furman and Philip Vanader.

Vanader. Vanader. We're going to be talking about them a lot in part two. Arrive at Simpson's house. 515 to 530. The detectives examined an apparent blood stain on Simpsons Ford Bronco, which is parked on like a side street, right? There's like a gate that goes past. The walkway goes past Cato's between the Bronco and the house, the pathway between their is where the Bronco is parked,

and you've got to walk between his house or by his house to get to OJ's house. It was like a side street, and the way that the Bronco was parked was very disheveled. It was in an angle, so it looked like somebody parked in district. What I'm saying is,

OJ, from getting out of the Bronco, would have to walk past Cato Cailan's house, which would be the thump on his wall. He supposedly, and this is almost even corroborated by OJ afterwards, but if he had done it, he said that he had hopped a fence and had tripped against the AC unit for Cato's guesthouse and had fallen up against Cato's house. So that would have been the thumps. Gotcha.

Okay. So the detectives, as they see the apparent blood stain on the Bronco, about 10 minutes later, Detective Furman decides to jump the wall in order for the police to get inside the estate. At that point, because they're seeing the blood, they feel like they're. there's probable cause for someone either injured inside or something happening inside. There is, but at this point, they don't know that that's OJ's Bronco yet. Correct. So they're entering his property without a search warrant, which is a big no-knit. And I'm sure we'll cover that as part of the trial.

So he ends up letting the other police inside. Once on the ground, the detectives awaken Simpson's daughter, who's staying in, I guess, another guest house, and she takes police into the house and telephones, Kathy Randa, her father's long-time assistant. 7-7-30, protective, or sorry, protective, detective vanitor, declared the area crime scene

and goes to get a warrant to search the house. Sometime in this, I think, is where the glove is first found, but not touched or anything. Yeah, so, unfortunately for everybody. Was it Furman that finds the glove? And he thought it was like either a pilot dog shit because it's a dark brown isotoner.

But then he kind of looked back at it after he passed it, and he saw that it was a glove, and he could see it was like wet or something? This is after he hops the fence, after he talks to Cato, he's walking around the lawn, and he finds a path that has a few blood droplets on it. So obviously he starts following the blood droplets and ends up coming on, which you said the crumpled dark brown mess,

gets his flashlight on it, realizes that it's a bloody glove. And he had already previously been over at the Bundy Estate where the murders had happened. So I don't know what his thought process was if he had seen the glove that was there. And kind of going back a little bit. So the murder scene that they find at Bundy is an Akita comes running back towards its owner and it's got bloodstained paws and it's just barking up a storm. And somebody on the street sees it and goes and follows the Akita back.

and that's how Ron and Nicole are discovered. When the police show up, they find three things there. They find a blue-knit cap. They find a black glove. And then they find the glasses in the... Is it a black glove or is the dark brown? It's a matching glove to the other glove. Whatever.

Well, they didn't know that at this point. Okay. So along that trail, they're looking and they see... Back at Rockingham. No, it... Bundy still. Okay. They see a trail leading down the sidewalk of blood droplets on the left side.

So they assume that whoever had committed the crime had had an injury to his left hand, and the blood was dripping down that way. So fast forward to they get to Rockingham. Furman finds the glove. And they went there, from what it says, they went there because O.J. was like, and the children were next of kin. To go notify them. That's what I'm saying. You have to say that the reason you're going up there.

But at the same time, in how many, you know, just statistically, in situations in which women are murdered, how often is it that it's either their former partner or current partner? It's something like 80, like 80%, 70 to 80%. It's a lot. So the natural reaction is going to be to go question OJ to find out if he's a suspect and where he was.

Under the guys, I think, of going up there to notify him of what happened, because that is also where the children probably are. No, no, the children were at Bundy. Weren't they sleeping? They were upstairs asleep in their rooms. When they walked into Bundy, they found lit candles around the bathtub, and they found an open pint of ice cream that she had opened. So whoever showed up, she was not expecting.

I'm sure she was expecting Ron to show up. Drop out of the glasses. Whoever got there first, she definitely wasn't expecting. and from just the stab wounds and just the grisly. Well, Ron was there at the time. The timeline, still, there's a bunch of different theories about it, but they think the best timeline would be Ron had walked up on what was going on. And Ron was trained in kung fu or karate or something like that,

so he could handle himself. He was a fairly big dude too. But Ron walks up, allegedly, supposedly sees some. tangle with Nicole Nicole is found with a blunt like she was found with an injury to her head that's consistent with being hit with like a blunt object which could be the

butt of a knife. Did they ever find the murder weapon? No. Well again there's some weird things about that that we'll get into but officially no. My entire conversation on this is going to be that OJ is guilty. So like any questions I ask or any points I make it's that like I'm just going to say like did he go there to do that or did he go there they were in the midst of an argument he saw Ron show up and he was like oh you're with this guy and then he went into a rage and you know what regardless of his intention going there what I'm curious about

is did he bring a weapon to do that was he always carrying one on him was this premeditated was this like he went into a rage because he saw her with another guy that just so happened to be off and off some glasses, thought they were dating, and just killed him. Because he doesn't have a huge window of time here. No, he doesn't, but at the same time, between the Bundy apartment and Rockingham, it's like four to six blocks. It's very close. So, excuse me, his lapse in time to get back home, not that wide. So he's spying on her and stalking her so much that he's literally got a flight to catch, goes and gets McDonald's.

And then is like, that's what I'm trying to become. Is his sole goal in this to go and stalk her? And then he sees Ron show up and he goes and immerse them. Or does he go there? And he says, because I have this as an alibi coming up, this flying out Chicago, I'm going to go kill her now. And then I'll just get away. My theory behind it and what I truly think happened. And this obviously is not official in any means.

And this is kind of little of the psychology of it. but the fact that Nicole had told her sister that night that she was moving on that she was finally done with juice and didn't want to be with him anymore if she had said something to him at the recital or after the recital post-recital pre-dinner saying this is it I'm done with you I'm over if you show up at my house again I am calling the police I am having you arrested I need to live my life I could 110% see that throwing him into a rage enough to be like, all right, I need to... If I can't have you, no one's going to have you. Exactly. Yep.

So I think personally, he showed up. There was a gate that I think he walked into. I think he showed up that night, which I've gone back and forth, but just seeing so much now, I think that he probably did have the antenna murdering her. I originally thought that it was kind of what you were talking about. Like he showed up into a situation that he didn't expect, went into a murderous rage, snapped finally. How do you fucking do that with like the kids of, like, I, I don't have that capability of thinking about that. Well, and we'll get into the call, but he makes some very weird non-statements when he finds out from the police.

I think he shows up. I think he knocks on the door. I think Nicole comes out. They have a little argument. He gets a hold of her. They kind of start to get in a tussle. He may have stabbed her at this point. I don't know.

I think Ron walks up onto what's going on, sees what's happening. He dispatches Nicole with a sharp hit to the top of the head with the knife, drops her out cold, engages Ron. Ron had defensive wounds when they found him on his arms. And he was stabbed somewhere. I want to say it was. around like 15 to 20 times.

So he wasn't going down without a fight. And they also found... I mean, he wasn't a small dude either. He think he was like 6-1. Yeah, they were probably around the same height. Because OJ at that point, he wasn't playing football anymore. I think they said he was down somewhere around like 200 pounds. So I mean, he wasn't like in his peak like playing day.

So he's, you know, he's not as formidable, but I mean, he's still a big dude. Well, and he's still an athlete that... He has a knife. Yeah. So I think they probably got into some sort of a skirmish. Oge is just stabbing the shit out of him trying to go away. Ron, with that fight or flight instinct, going all the way back to saving his sister from a burning car,

isn't going to let anything happen to Nicole. He probably went out fighting like a champ, being just the bad motherfucker that he was. I think after he had killed Ron, he had turned back to Nicole, and he had sliced her throat so far. which we're not good at like trigger warnings or anything like that. If you're a victim of domestic violence or anything like that,

I'm sorry we should have started off by saying this is going to get a little deep. But he sliced her so far that there was a mark on her vertebrae. Like on her spine. Yeah, they is just, it's, man, it's disgusting to talk about honestly. But I think they said that there was something that her father had said that, They had to go ahead and have her wearing a turtleneck at her funeral because he had almost, he had almost like decapitated her.

And so, I mean, that's really all I want to go ahead and say about that. Yeah, yeah. It was just, the way they describe it, it was just, it was carnage, and it was just like, it was like an animal. Well, and the only reason that I bring it up is because I feel like it kind of plays into a certain, Like when you walk into a crime scene and you see somebody that is shot six times and then somebody that shot twice, when you start locking up the list of suspects, you want to see which one of the victims was probably the focus of the attack. Because like we talked about, Ron was just wrong place, wrong time.

And had he walked up on OJ and Nicole fighting and OJ saw another dude showing up to see Nicole, he was probably just lost it even worse at that point. He was already in a murderous rage, but then he sees some dude showing up. So the only reason I bring up what he did to Nicole and what he did to Ron was because it starts to... It shows the Nicole. I mean, it's supporting the fact that Nicole was the target.

It was also her house. Ron wasn't going to be known to have been there at the house, so it paints her that it was... The crime was against her. Yep. That's what it allows you to do. It allows you to say the crime was against her, and it was Ron that was kind of the...

the bystandard on that. So, at this point, they turn Rockingham into a crime scene. They call O.J., let him know what happened. He's like, what are you talking about? Oh my God, Nicole's dead.

Um, okay, I'll come back. So he ends up coming back. Well, at this point, if you are a father, you don't ask the police how she died. But almost more importantly, as a father... Yeah, you don't ask who has the kids.

You don't... Sorry. You're good. You don't ask, are they safe? You don't ask what happened to them. You just found out that your ex-wife who's watching your kids was murdered. And you don't ask the question, are my children okay? Which, I mean, if you don't ask that question, why do you probably not ask that question?

Yeah. Because you know that the kids are okay. because you were the one that killed your wife and didn't touch the kids. And so he ends up coming back. The police, at this point, they've already established DNA evidence, or are they in the process of doing DNA evidence?

They're still waiting on DNA evidence. They never arrested O.J. When he came back and they brought him in for questioning. Yeah. Which the police at this point, I don't know if it was that privilege that he'd finally earned that we had talked about. but they bring them in for questioning

and never ask a follow-up question to an answer. No, it was two cops, and he made it to where the information provided during that questioning was completely unusable because he kept going off on tangents of stuff. You were like, well, then I was in Chicago, and I took a shower, and then after I took my shower, what did I do? What did I do? I think I went to go get a beverage.

And then he provides all of these, like, detailed things, and it's just basically nonsensical talking about everything they can't use anything because some of the stuff is contradicting other stuff and like you said they didn't ask like follow-up questions like hey where were you between this time

well I went to McDonald's like they were just taking things that he said as they were and not only that they question him about a fairly large cut on his left hand and how he had

sustain that injury. He told them that in a fit of rage after finding out that Nicole had been killed, he smashed a glass and it cut his left hand. They don't ask a follow-up question. They know that there's an injury

potentially to the murderer on his left side. Oge has a cut on his left hand and they didn't ask a follow-up question. So the DNA, it takes a little bit more time to run DNA. at this point. It still only took him like

three or four days. I know, but it's not immediate. It's not like they could bring in OJ after already establishing that the blood from the trail at Nicole's residence matched his blood. They haven't been able to go and tie that because they can't use that for questioning. I don't know if they would use that for questioning.

At this point, they considered him a suspect kind of on the peripherals, but they didn't have a direct link. They just saw blood and blood. And originally, when they went in to notify quote unquote OJ. When they saw the blood,

they immediately got concerned that whoever had killed Nicole had come over and killed OJ. So that's why they were knocking on the door. That's why they were trying to gain entry because they thought after all the blood trail and everything that they had seen that the killer had shown up to kill OJ.

Not that OJ was quite the killer yet, but they thought that his life was in danger. I'm trying to remember. What was his friend's name that was the cop? He had a lot of them. He played in charity golf tournaments Yeah, there was one guy that he used to hang out with that he grew up with as well, I think. And it was like his buddy.

But anyway, so kind of like you were saying, what he's telling the cops about how he heard his hand. So that guy's hanging out with him. And someone asked O.J., like, hey, what did you do to your hand? He's like, ah, he's like I was golfing. And he did something like with a tea or something like that. He swung and caught. It was some bullshit. And that guy was with him.

and then he was with someone else and they asked him how he heard his hand. And he made up a third story about like he was working on his car. He was working, oh, he was working on the Bronco. He was trying to reach inside the Bronco for something and he caught his hand. So he has the story that he told to

the two cops that were interviewing him, which his friend who is the cop knows that story then tells him in front of him two other stories. And at this point his buddy was like, I think he did this. and so at some point his he goes to this guy and he's like hey you know you got to help me um he's trying to ask him about i don't know if he's asking him like what are the like hypothetical

making him sound like hypothetical questions or anything like that it would be strictly hypothetical correct but it makes this guy switch around and be like i think he did this and so he he breaks off any contact with him at this point i can't remember for life of me what this guy's name is. And at what evidence did they get back that the warrant was actually ordered for his arrest? Was it at the point when the

DNA came back and it was DNA from the glove found at OJ's had Nicole's DNA? Or yes, it matched Nicole's correct? The amount of blood that they found on everything in the house

was something incredible. The amount of DNA and everything, Ron Schip. That's right. Yep, ship. That's what they, yep. Come on, ship. Come on, ship. So, they got all this forensic evidence back.

On the glove that they had found at Oge's place, they found OJ's blood, Nicole's blood, and Ron's blood. They had found fibers in OJ's socks from, I believe it was, it might have just been blood and DNA, but they had found something of Ron's and something of Nicole's on socks that they had found in OJ's place. And obviously, when he sneaks back into his house, he's taking clothes off, he's trying to get in the shower.

This cut on his hand keeps bleeding. They had found DNA in the sink in the bathroom, which I don't know if that would be the only place he would have washed off, but that was the only sink that they had checked in that drain, in the sink. So they had just a mountain of evidence that they knew was going to be something that they could convict. There was, I mean, Nicole and Ron's blood from Bundy was found at OJ's Rockingham Estate. Not just on the glove either.

It was found inside the residence. They found bloody footprints in the blood at Bundy, which they'd found footprints outside of the house at Brentwood, so I'm sure they probably compared those as well. And it was a, this will come up again in the civil trial, but it was a very rare pair of Italian shoes that they'd only made so many of. And not to mention, I don't know if they'd figured it out at this point,

but the glove that they found at the scene and the glove that they found at Rockingham, which the second scene, were a pair of very rare gloves that they had only sold at somewhere on Fifth Avenue, It was like a sax or something like that. They had only made a few hundred pairs of them, and they actually found a receipt in Nicole's possession

for that same pair of gloves that she had given OJ. And OJ admitted to those being his gloves at one point, but said that they were ugly as hell, and he would never wear them. So they end up knowing at some point that those were his gloves, whether that was prior to the arrest or not, it was still another connection. I'm trying not to bleed all that evidence,

and there's just so much shit that prudity did it. So, he comes back. He goes to her funeral, too. Yeah, he goes to his funeral, or goes to Nicole's funeral, which I'm sure was just a terrible affair for everybody that was involved, knowing that her murderous,

I guess not at that point, no murderous, but the guy that used to beat her, her ex-husband, that stalked her for all these years is sitting there with his kids, with Nicole's kids at her funeral. So at this point, he has Rob Kardashian. It's his buddy and also kind of his life, not lifelong, but it's been his long-term friend slash legal counsel, correct? Yep. Okay.

So Robert Kardashian at this point is having to probably kind of pick up the pace and start establishing like a defense team. Well, and Robert Kardashian is Kim and Chloe in the whole... I don't want to talk about them. But... That's the... Aside from, you know, the tragedy with Nicole and Ron, the simple fact that this somehow brought the fucking Kardashians a fucking scope of national attention

and they've parlayed it into the fucking earworm and just piece of shit on society, I Go off No Like it's just I'm only talking about Robert here I know but I

I gotta mention it for something that comes up Just very soon All right So So he's the head of the Kardashian clan Correct Who Chris and Nicole Were very good friends before this

I'm sure they met through Robert and Oge hanging out together Are you trying to Are you trying to get at the Chloe Is really OJ's daughter Oh God I forgot about that conspiracy. I like it, though.

I know. I still feel like it holds up. I feel like it does, too. So, yeah, Kardashian brings in Robert Shapiro, who, if you've seen his portrayal and the people against O.J. Simpson is played by Travolta.

With, like, his eyes pulled back and, like, the skin is super tight. He's got so much Botox in his face. It's incredible. So the reason that they're able to, that he's starting to build up this legal counsel and these guys are getting called in is because I think at this point, the DA is having to go ahead and,

are they having to go ahead and provide evidence or things that they're discovering to OJ's, like attorneys? Because on, let's see, on June 17th, at 11 is when OJ is supposed to, they're allowing him to come in and surrender himself. Well, they put out an arrest warrant for him, but they're allowing him to surrender himself because his attorneys have made that deal, and he's agreed to it. They waited until the day after the trial. They put the warrant out for his arrest.

They officially charged him with murder. And like you say, they went ahead and arranged for him to turn himself in the next day. So two days after the murder. Well, no, five. Five days is what it was? Yeah, if the 12th is when the murderer, yeah. So he's out for, I mean, this is moving pretty fast. Yeah, very fast.

And I'm sure it's because they're looking at this as a slam-down case. Yeah. it's there's so much evidence. Oh yeah. And so they're the letter. So Shapiro and Kardashian come out and is OJ is with AC and they're at the Kardashians house. Yep. They're hanging out, having a little powwow beforehand.

They're kind of sensing that something's wrong with juice. He's obviously he's about to be arrested for his ex-wife's murder. So I'm sure it probably wasn't a real joyous time. OJ pops into I believe it was Chloe's room Forgive me for this I know you will But maybe we have some people

That are Cardo fans It was either Chloe Or Kim's room I want to say it's Chloe Just because there might be a family link there Goes into his daughter's room Yeah Goes into his daughter's room

Ends up writing something that is eerly similar to a suicide It is a suicide note. And while he's in there, has sex with his

current girlfriend after or before one of the two writing the note. And then AC comes up to the room. Ode says that he's out. AC sneaks him out of the Kardashian house without Shapiro

or Kardashian knowing. It's while they're reading the letter or something, isn't it? Because there's reporters at his house. Yeah. They're doing like a press conference at Robert Kardashian's house. The first one. Yes.

There were two. So they're doing it, the first press conference, like you're talking about, saying he plans on turning himself in 11, we're going to make all this happen. Okay, got you. Oh, two within the same day. Yeah. Okay, I gotcha. So, um, juice and AC sneak out of the house without Kardashian-Shapiro knowing and get out and get in the white Bronco. Now, in the white Bronco, after they arrested OJ, they found $8,700.

They found Juce's passport. They found... They found a glue on beard and mustache. Which, you're six feet tall, you're 200 pounds, you're a black dude, and you were on TV all the time. You're OJ Simpson. What's a fake mustache and a fake beard going to do for you? You'd be surprised me. You can get through.

with a fake beard mustache. I think I said they found the gun. And supposedly what OJ tells the police after everything happens was that he wanted to go see Nicole's grave site one more time before he turned himself in. That's where he was going.

He wasn't trying to flee. He wasn't trying to escape. He eventually says he was going to kill himself in Nicole's grave, wasn't it? Well, he said that he wanted to go say goodbye before he kills himself. Okay. But he writes a suicide now.

which this gets into kind of the whole narcissist thing again. But if your ex-wife dies and you are about to have to turn yourself in for her murder, I feel like if you know that you're innocent at that point, you're probably just going to off yourself, right? If you are going to commit suicide, you're going to leave the note and you're going to do it right there. You're not going to go on this wild goose chase to go to your ex-wife's grave and all that stuff, right? If you're just going to do it, you're going to do it. And I feel like him and the whole Bronco chase,

it was all manufactured by him just for more sympathy, more... Oh, yeah, I don't know if... I mean, I guess it was one of those situations where, like, this can't hurt my... This can't hurt my scenario. Like, I'm already looked at it's so guilty. Like, I got... It's like, wow card!

Yeah. Like, I'm gonna... I'm gonna go and threaten to kill myself because I'm so distraught about it. Cole and that everyone hates me and all this kind of stuff. Like, it worked. Like, it's so shitty to say, but it fucking worked. And you have to think if you're going to, like, if you're going to go with the whole

try to garner sympathy with a suicide note and all that, you don't just want your lawyers to know and everybody else. You want everybody that could be a potential juror, anybody that could be on your side, anybody that was an OJ fan, you want them to know that you're so distraught about your ex-wife dying and you've got. being accused of it that you're willing to kill yourself. Yeah. So they're allegedly headed to Nicole's grave.

OJ says that he was denied access at Nicole's grave because there was a police officer standing there, keeping watch. Ends up being mad about that. They take off. At this point, are Kardashian and Shapiro, have they read the note and made the announcement that he's gone? So they're about to find out at this point.

Okay. Kardashian and Shapiro, fun note, like you were just saying, they go out on TV and I don't know if Shapiro saw this. It was like, hey, this is going to be some good stuff. We have this what looks like a suicide note. I'm going to go out there and read that for these people and see if we can garner a little bit more sympathy. They go out, they have their press conference, Shapiro reads the entire letter that OJ had written in front of all the media. and everything like that say that he's taken off

they don't know where he is they need to find him the police are there this is at like two so he was supposed to turn himself in three hours before that and there's also a press conference going on too

at I don't know like police headquarters or whatever for him surrendering himself there was not like to not not yeah I mean there's people covering him coming in but there's also a press conference letting people know

that they are expecting him. That's the reason that they're not sending out police officers to arrest him. He's agreed to surrender at 11, and his lawyers have agreed. So they have to come out finally after like hours. Yeah. And they're like, he is still not turned himself in.

At this point, OJ Simpson is now a fugitive. And that's when they start calling in APBs on him, the vehicle that he's in, and that's when the police choppers start, or the news choppers start to pick up the, the drug or kind of the reports well at this point

the police that are there at the Kardashian house have basically held Shapiro and Kardashian saying you guys have aided and abetted a known criminal you guys have you helped OJ escape basically

so the sheriff gets on his press conference says OJ's a feature from the law like you were saying anybody that is found to be assisting OJ in his

flight, whatever you want to call it, will be arrested and prosecuted. This tips everybody off, everybody that's watching the press conference is starting to look around to see if they can find OJ. And an L.A. resident

spots OJ's, or spots a white bronco on the freeway, pulls up next to it, sees OJ in the back, sees A.C. driving in the front. So this part confused me for a few years, but

OJ is white bronco that they found the blood spatter on is still in custody at the LAPD. He has multiple white broncos. Al Kalings also had the exact same white bronco that OJ had. So he had wanted to be OJ so bad that he had the exact same car as OJ. So this fella sees the white bronco,

sees Oge and everything on the freeway. Okay, so he, He calls it in. The police go to announce it, broadcast it to the other officers to go ahead and start, either pull him over, pursue him. There's like a loan. I can't remember which affiliate it is. If it's CBS, ABC, NBC, which one?

There's a lone news chopper kind of in the area. And they find the Bronco being pursued by like one or two cop cars at this point because the police have found him at this point. and I think for like 15 minutes they're the only ones on scene so as soon as they found the Bronco they called in and

immediately whatever was going on on that channel they cut that broadcast and they started broadcasting you know urgent news bulletin and so for like 15 minutes it was just this one channel but then all of a sudden

everyone started sending in their news choppers and by that point you get the famous incident of what was like 30 It looked like 30 cop cars in a low-speed pursuit. Yeah. And it's the weirdest thing to see the freeway in Los Angeles with like no cars on it. Yeah, they blocked off all the entrances and exits.

And they made sure that there was nobody else in the way. People had actually gotten out of their cars at this point because they'd heard about it somehow and were cheering OJ on. They were standing on the overpasses. They got to the point where people. had made signs and were sitting on the overpasses. Go, OJ, go juice. Juice is innocent. Yeah, free juice.

So at this point, A.C. is driving and has the gun, and OJ. is sitting in the back. Yeah. So. Crouch down to where no one can see him, but AC's on the phone, actually, with the cops. Well, just to drive this point home, because this, to me, is something that

changed the world. I know that that sounds weird, but this changed the world. So every major news network and every major TV channel cut to the OJ Simpson car chase all across the United States. June 17th, when this is happening, they cut away from game five of the NBA finals between the Rockets and the Knicks to follow this car chase. Arnold Palmer played his last round at the U.S. Open on this day. This is all stuff that is happening concurrently with this car chase happening. The Rangers had their Stanley Cup, the New York Rangers, the NHL team had their

Stanley Cup parade in New York. The World Cup had just begun. So in the sports world, nonetheless, OJ being a major sports star, is interrupting all these major sports moments across the country. And they estimated that 95 million people

tuned in to watch the car chase. I can't recall if I was watching, if what I saw was, was, you know, because how long was this thing on repeat in the news cycle for, okay. But I do want to say that, you know, this was summer, no school, anything. I don't know if I saw it live as it was happening, but I definitely saw it at least within the same day of replays and everything.

I don't know, you know, depending on what time it was, especially if, you know, this is happening at what, like, three or four when they finally find them. Yeah, and this is like, oh, it was later than that because the press conference about the suicide note was at two. Okay. So it was later on. Maybe I saw it live, man. That would, like, I can vividly, but I, you know, I just was like, why, who, I don't, I didn't know who O.J. Simpson was at that time. Yeah.

And I even paid attention to sports. It was just because someone had to explain probably, hey, that guy in the naked gun, I'd be like, oh, what? Nordberg is in a police chase and it's on my TV here? Yeah. Domino's had reported that they sold as many pizzas on that night for delivery, that they would sell during a typical Super Bowl night. Because everyone was wanting to stay and watch the get pizza and watch the chase. Exactly. That is how many people were so tuned in and locked in.

Can you imagine, though, how many Domino's orders got held up from people not being able to get to where they're trying to deliver it because all the roads being backed up? Can't take the freeway. I'll be there in a door. I know, right? You'll be arrested by them. that just get here so while while this is going on though they are talking to aEC yeah dispatch or dispatcher negotiator is talking to a c while he's driving they have him on the phone ac is going nuts and oj is sitting in the back of the bronco he's got a gun up to his face don't do anything that's going to make him you guys need to back off um he starts saying that

oj just wants to go home he said that he wants to go home he wants to see he his mom. He wants to give her a hug and at some point during his convoluted bullshit, can't keep his lies straight he says that they were trying to get over to his mom's house so he could say goodbye. He still wasn't running. He was trying to get

over his mom's house to say goodbye. Just line after line bullshit after bullshit, whatever he could say to try to spin it to make it sound like he could garner a little bit of sympathy. And then the guy that's talking to him on the phone, the fucking negotiator,

OJ, he finally gets to talk to OJ. He's finally actually talking to OJ himself. He's like, everybody hates me. I love her so much. I love her. I never hurt her anything like that. Everyone hates me. And he's like, oh, no, juice, everyone loves you.

No, and, but, I mean, that's his job is to get him to, but it's just. We love Pioneer Chicken, Oge. Jesus Christ. But yeah, everyone hates me, juice. Everyone loves you. You're scaring everybody, Juice. I would never hurt them. I would never, I would never.

This isn't for them. And they actually allow him to go back. They make a deal that allows him to drive, allows AC to drive back to Rockingham. They have, they have to send police cars in advance to clear out the roads. There's people lining the streets all the way up to his house. He finally gets there.

And as soon as they pull in and stop the car, is it OJ's son that comes out to like the door and starts arguing with AC? or something like that. And then he pushes him back. There's already cops at Rockingham, like, in the house. They're not, like, outside the house. It looks like they're in the kitchen or whatever room is right off the driveway.

Because they come out and pull OJ's son back in. AC eventually gets out. Never arrested. And then after how long was OJ, it was hours, right? He was in there by himself. He stayed inside there and, again, a million, in theories about what this was about. The one that I feel like, because you're listening to us,

sounds the best to me, was that it's going to be a lot harder for the media to get pictures of OJ being arrested if it's dark outside. That's, I think, what they said it was. Or if they have to shoot him. If something happened and he came out, come on, that's got to go hand in hand with. They don't want to see him getting arrested. Well, and this is bullshit. I could maybe see that.

That would make sense. But they actually took OJ out of the view of the public to put handcuffs on him. They don't afford anybody else this kind of luxury. No, they don't. Oh, you've got to cruise around on the freeway without them throwing stop sticks or shooting him. For 45 minutes. Is that what it was? It seems like it lasted so much longer.

Yeah. Well, if he comes back and it's dark. No, I mean, but at the same time, he sat in the driveway for like three hours until it got dark. but if he comes out and takes one shot, they have no choice but to shoot him. So they have to know that that is something that's a possibility. So if they're going to wait and be like,

hey, if we're going to be able to rest and let's wait till dark, it's going to be the same principle of thought. If he does get out of there and just is waving the gun around and takes a shot at someone in their own areas, we have to shoot him. The only thing makes me think different was he was kind of the one that was in control of it because he was the one that ultimately decided to get out of the vehicle. It wasn't like they chased him back inside there.

they negotiated with him for long enough that either that it could be a possibility. I just think if he's the guy that's in charge of when he gets out. I have a hard time believing that, okay, I think it was twofold. Because of everything that had happened with all of the, you know, Rodney King and how the LAPD was under the microscope for, there were actually some LAPD officers that were interviewed during the, like, documentaries that had been done. and they said that there was this feeling that like all eyes were on them. Oh, absolutely.

Like if they were going to show that they weren't pieces of shit and all these corrupt officers and everything like that, this was going to be the moment to display that. So they were super heightened to handle the situation with as much care and as delicately as possible, especially with someone as high profile as OJ. Well, that and that's probably why they didn't stop him on the freeway. Yeah, but at the same time, there had to have been a thought in their head

to say if he comes out and he shoots at us, we don't have a choice. So if we do have to do that, it's probably best that that happens where a bunch of fucking news cameras can't see it in a broad daylight. And that absolutely could be. It would make total sense for that to happen.

I just don't know whose plan it was to get out that late. Do you think that the people, the hostage people that are sitting there talking to them on the phone, told them to wait till dark? I guess they could. Maybe. I don't know, man.

Maybe they give him the option. Like, how long do you want to stay in there? But I think the whole time they're just trying to get him to come out. I think they were having to handle the situation. But, man, like, we've gone through very little of the evidence, but it's major evidence. They have to know he's guilty. Like, I hate to say it. But, like, if you're a cop and all of this has happened, you got a fleeing felon that is a suspect of murdering his ex-wife.

Fake mustache, fake beard. Yeah, they've got to be just like, this guy's guilty of killing his wife, but we still have to make sure that how this, we're handling this. Everything should be handled like this regardless, but what I'm saying is there was that, there had to have been a heightened amount of it. Just because of the amount of media on it and past, yeah, the kid glove effect kind of. Either way, it took them too long. I totally understand the thought process of the LAPD coming off of the Watts riots and Rodney King. Obviously, the LAPD wasn't doing too great under news choppers at that point. No.

Because they got caught beating the holy hell out of king. And then somehow all those officers got off, which we'll talk about that more at the trial. But this is something that when you see that on the news, like you're saying, to your point, you don't want any other bad press on. you. No. So between the time that he's actually arrested, it happens. I don't know if you would consider it late. Yeah, it would be late at night on June 17th. So how long, and we're not going to go really any further than this, how long was he held in custody before the trial actually occurred? He was out on bond, because he was out to meet with his defense and everything. everything, I'm sure.

So he might have been in there for a little longer because I think they did say that he had sometime served. Oh, this is a very weird nugget, which I don't know how. Maybe you got into this. Cable Guy, the two brothers that killed their parents. The Menendez brothers? Yes, the Menendez brothers. Okay.

So OJ gets taken into jail and shares a jail cell with one of the Menendez brothers because they had just been arrested for killing. their parents finally. Really? And we're talking back and forth. And O.J. had already known the Menendez brothers because the father of Mr. Menendez was the VP of the Hertz ad agency and had signed OJ to the Hertz contract that launched him on the national level.

The Menendez brothers' dad was like the head of her. hurts to the point to where there's pictures of the Menendez brothers throwing the football back and forth with the OJ. When they were younger. Yeah. Jesus. Talk about a weird, weird coincidence. That timing and locate, no shit.

Yeah, dude, it's just so crazy. So the trial ends up happening, and it starts October 3rd, 1995. So, what is that, July, August, September, I don't know, three months. Mm-hmm. So at that point, he also gets released. On bail? This is bad reporting by me, but I feel like he got bond. And obviously, being a very rich man, you can pay a high bond.

Yeah, but sometimes what they worry about that is a flight risk. Well, they had taken the passport that they had found with the... Oh, that makes sense. That is not the right one. It's bad when you have to Google was he released on bail, and it pulls up all the more recent times he got arrested. O.J. Simpson bailed without bail. Okay.

Is that what you got? Yeah. Yeah, June 20th, OJ Simpson was arraigned and pleaded not guilty to both murders and was... So he was held without bail. He did not get to... Which makes sense. Hold on.

Did you say he was... What was that? Was that 94? Mm-hmm. So he would... The trial didn't occur for almost a year. Really? Yeah, let me go ahead...

Well, so much of it in... I'll tip a little bit towards next week. But the process of going through and having them find a jury and everything, because when you select a jury, obviously, you're going to have the prosecutor and the defense sitting in there, and they're going to be choosing between different jurors, questioning them, asking about their biases. Man, what do you think of O.J. Simpson?

Oh, I love O.J. He's so handsome. And not to mention one of the... I personally think that it was the biggest issue, or not the biggest, but probably like a top five for how bad the defense, or that prosecution fucked up, was they were doing the trial in downtown Los Angeles, whereas any murder that would happen to Brentwood

would have happened in Santa Monica, which you're going to have a drastically different makeup of the jury, because I believe there were eight black people, a couple Asian folks, a white person, and somebody that was mixed race, I had that completely wrong, but I know that it was majority black. Basically you're saying a jury

that would not have been available in Brentwood. No, and it's, which by the letter of the law, I love when people do this, and they go by exact what right should happen, so there's not any questions or appeals. They wanted to give him a trial with a jury of his own peers. So O.J. being black, probably there were different things that Marsha Clark said, but she said anything that was going to be a long trial was going to have to happen in L.A. because they didn't want to put everybody in Santa Clara basically on the same trial.

I don't care what the jury is made up of. There was so much evidence stacked against him. I'm going to be done talking about it right after I say this. There was so much evidence stacked against him that it should not have mattered what the jury. or who the jury consisted of on what their beliefs were. It should have been an open and shut case. And next week, we're going to find out how this softball of a case got... Yeah, beautiful. Yeah. How OJ got away with it, I guess. All right, you think you'll be able to hold yourself?

Yeah. I hope your excitement for a few days. I'm going to jump right back into it. If my lungs hold out for the next recording, I'm ready to go already. I could do this for the rest of the month. Okay, guys, well, uh, join us next week when we, uh, actually tackle the OJ trial. Later. Peace.