Historically High - Roswell and Area 51

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

Look I know what your thinking after reading the title, and you're partially right, we're gonna discuss Aliens, UFO's, UAP, Extraterrestrials, whatever you wanna call them at some point during this episode. However the incident that occurred near Roswell, New Mexico, is important to history as it set off what can only be described as Alien Fever. Area 51 came along shortly after and due to the secrecy of this military testing ground it was instantly tied to the UFO occurrences and conspiracies. It probably didn't help that the Top Secret aircraft making test flights from Area 51 were unlike anything anyone had ever seen on this planet. Join us as we break down and sift through the bullshit to explore these fascinating places. Support the show Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Class is back in session. We'll call it astronomy class today. Just pack your tinfoil. All right. Start forming a hat around your head. We're going into space. It ain't lunch, but make sure you got a little tinfoil on you. I am your co-host, Professor Adam.

To my right, the man, you can catch him on his off day. Wow. You can catch him on his off days riding his ruckus with a fanny pack. on to go get lot of tickets from the gas station. I don't wear a fanny pack when I do it. It's got a satchel built in underneath the seat that I can storm. It's not a purse. It's a satchel. It's a bag. It's a storage bag that's built into it. He has seen Jesus play with flames in a lake of fire that he was standing in.

I don't know what that means. It's country. I switched it up this time. I don't even... What song is that? Oh, God, I forgot his name. The aliens wiped it away. Okay. But yeah, that, that sultry voice you're hearing over there. That is Professor Chris.

Oh, this one, this one's tricky because there's history to it. But then I feel like it's just going to, the history is not like the believable stuff, but like from a probability perspective, like this stuff should be technically true, not just in the series of events that it's happened in. I don't know. this, I think we're going to devolve maybe into like a shit-slinging fight, like just monkeys at the zoo. No. There's a chance that this one could devolve into that.

Good, poignant, extremely clear points in regards to this, I feel like. Yeah, we have two sort of American stories, two American institutions, if you will, in the Roswell incident, which happened so, so long ago. and then we also have an area of mystery who, what was it, like 2019, that people wanted to try to run in on Area 51? Yeah, I was looking it up and I do review Wikipedia for certain things, but the picture that they chose to put on there was the one that said like clap alien cheeks. Oh, that's good. And they were marching, and it was Storm Area 51.

Okay, yeah, no, a bunch of smart dudes. Like 13 people end up getting arrested. They're lucky. Nobody got shot. They had like 200,000 people respond in regards to it. Like 3,000 people. No, actually, like 1,300 people actually show up. And then like 13 people got arrested.

More people showed up for the Battle of the Kyle's. Yeah. Did you ever see that? Kyle, Texas. They had everybody, everybody named Kyle for a Battle Royal. To see who would be like. The ultimate Kyle. Yeah, the ultimate Kyle Prime.

Pretty sweet. But yeah. That could have been an alien event, too. A bunch of Kyle's getting together. There's probably some weird shit going. on there. There's been waiter. But let's... Is this a...

And I know we're still keeping this short, this intro. You were saying we're going to America for this and everything. Is this... Like, when you looked up worldwide stuff, I feel like UFOs and alien shit, I feel like that's like a pretty

specific American thing. Everybody, the differences, we take it seriously, I think. There are other people, in other countries. Australia seems to be fairly lighthearted. We'll kind of touch on one of their areas. There was the big one in Africa.

Yeah. Outside the school, the primary school in Zimbabwe, it wasn't even that long ago, to be honest. Like, it was within the lifetime. But it just seems like as Americans, we probably do the American thing to it and just take it way too seriously. Just blow it out of fucking proportion.

Pretty much. Just like everything else. So, yeah, let's get into a couple American tales. Let's get fucking weird with it. All right. So I think we should probably start with Roswell because Roswell ends up kind of then leading into what is the conspiracy behind the creation of Area 51, right? I guess in a way, in a dumb man's way. And the reason that I call it a dumb man's way is because Area 51 didn't even really exist when Roswell went down.

And we actually, what I'm saying, though, was Roswell was the chicken before the egg. So essentially, Roswell happened. And then what the whole theory or story is, is that Area 51 was created in order to investigate both the Roswell crash and then also, you know, any other alien or UFO-related shit going forward. Yeah. And really, the Roswell crash, we actually have to get in front of the chicken and the egg and go straight to the fucking that created whichever one of them. Because there was a man named Kenneth Arnold that we need to get into a little bit because Kenneth Arnold basically was like the modern day first guy that blew up and went print viral

for receiving spacecrafts. All of this happened within such a very, very short time frame of it. It was like it could only happen if every other event happened before it. Yeah, you could almost say like it was a mass psychological event. It was a craze. Yeah. So, yeah, so we get pilot Kenneth Arnold. And is he a commercial pilot or was he flying a private plane?

He was front of private. This motherfucker was rich, rich. Like back in 1947, this dude had a private plane that he was flying. He was flying between some crazy named Washington Sound. Oh, yeah, I guess in 47 you would have to be rich because most aircraft were either commercial or military. Howard Hughes had, yeah. He owned a business installing fire suppression systems. Okay.

So guy was pretty well off. Business was probably good. if that was any type of a military application during the war for like fire suppression for ships and all that shit. Yeah, could have been. But June 24th, 1947, Kenneth Arnold is flying his private plane. He's the only one in it.

He's headed from some crazy Washington town. No witnesses? No, of course not. Never. It's the common thing. Let's, you know what? Let's get into let's establish this right now. Where do you stand?

On what? All these people? No, on just on the existence of extraterrestrials. Yeah, extraterrestrials exist. We don't know shit about them. Okay, we don't know shit about them. I, and I'm with you as well. What I'm saying is, do you believe that I'm not saying any of the people that we're going to go through in the early parts of this, but do you ever think a person has laid eyes on not the them, but like a craft that they were traveling in?

If they did, it was a hoax. I agree with like if they saw them on radar or anything like that but this is my one main reason why I believe that if you're smart enough and an intelligent enough species to create interstellar travel to where you're traveling to other planets other universes other all this shit but you haven't figured out a cloaking device to be able to cover yourself up and make you invisible I feel like we sort of invented the cart and then drug the cart around and never really invented the horse there because if you are there to investigate other places,

you probably don't want to make yourself known. So why would you not have a cloaking device that would make you... I agree with that point, but I don't think that that's enough of a point for the crux to just be like, no, no one's ever seen it. Because technically,

even if you had cloaking, let's just pretend before just a quick point. Even if you had cloaking, you still have to have some type of like power source in order to power it. What if like you just, don't use it that often if you're not expected to get snuck up on. I do think, though, at the same time, that is where we pick things up on radar.

Is we pick up whatever the power devices are in the spacecrafts? No, well, radar picks up essentially the object itself because it reflects the radar signal back. Yeah, so a cloaking device would make you invisible, but you would still be, it's like Wonder Woman's private plane. Like, won't the radar still bounce off you, even if you're not a visible? have a form. The whole cloaking thing is it's only from a visual, ocular perspective that it doesn't exist.

So it'll still be picked up on radar. Yes. Okay. We're getting ahead of ourselves because we are going to talk about these specific instances. So, okay, so back to Kenneth. Kenneth was on a little business trip. He was flying into, I believe it was like

Yakima, Washington. As one goes to for fire suppression. Yeah. Well, he was actually headed for some funzies, but passing Mount Rainier, there was a C-46 transfer plane that had crashed around Mount Rainier that the government hadn't been able to find. They put out a $5,000 reward, which 1947, 5Gs, probably a lot of money, for any knowledge to the whereabouts of where the plane was. So, old Kenneth is up there flying around, scanning the ground, looking around, seeing if he can find the wreck,

make some money on the side on his little business trip and ends up not seeing it all of a sudden he catches this crazy flash of light that was I believe up on his left hand side sees it he can't believe it it's a row of nine triangular crafts that are in a diagonal pattern Did he say he thought initially it was glare

Off of like another wing of a plane that was flying next to him Or kind of like just reflected off the sun at the perfect angle Something like that Yeah because back then there was no like you didn't you had ground radar basically and then you could call down and talk to some rudimentary like aircraft towers you also had planes that were more of like that stainless yeah look and everything that could reflect something like that in order to know that there's somebody up in the air with you like you have to be very vigilant so if you think that you see something he's checking around he checks his

ground radar he calls down to air traffic control they say that there's a plane like a certain amount of miles back behind him so that wouldn't have been what he sees he actually said that he rolled down his window and looked without glass in front of it to see. To make sure it wasn't something playing off the glass on his side. So he sees this, uh, ends up getting to Yakima, excuse me, lands, ask some pilots if they've ever really seen anything up there. And they're like, ah, I mean, could be geese, couldn't be geese because the altitude geese don't really fly that high and geese aren't made of metal so they wouldn't be shiny.

But they kind of said, yeah, we see some crazy shit from time to time. maybe don't fly if you're seeing some crazy shit. And he heads down to a place called Pendleton, Oregon, where they're going to have an air show. Before he gets to the air show, he stops in at the East Oregonian newspaper and sits down and talks to some reporters. Having never met anybody from Pendleton, Oregon,

or anybody of the like in that sort of area, I don't know what routine, goofy shit that they see on a daily basis. I would bet probably some fun stuff. I mean, we're in Bigfoot. country up there. That's true. So I'm sure newspaper reporters have definitely been brought some crazy stories. Yeah. And even in that situation, if it, we're not even saying this is front page news, but if he goes to somebody and he's like, hey, you know, I saw this. Who's to say that's not going to make like page five or something if they're running short on stories? So I don't think

it was necessarily hard. I don't think really serious like groundbreaking shit was what filled up newspapers previously. No, and especially in such a small town area. Yeah. Like there's just, there's not a lot that's going to happen. The air show is going to bring some people in. The Trouther running this time of year. And yeah, what goes perfect with an air show at an air base in Pendleton, Oregon, then a bunch of aliens. So Kenneth was able to sit down with them, and this proves the point that if somebody is coherent enough,

can speak clearly enough and is creative enough, no matter what he says, he'll have some sort of an audience. There is, but at the same time, this is early enough. And I'm not saying Kenneth was, I'm not taking, I believe the most people until we get later on for the military folks. I think everyone here is kind of full shit because there's just so, there's never any witnesses or never any corroborating evidence.

What I'm saying though is like, this is, he starts the craze. So when he's coming in with this information about, you know, these objects that were flying like saucers across the water,

this is also where the misconception of flying saucers comes from. Yeah, this motherfucker. So the way he describes them is he describes them as they're flying, that they would fly or skip like saucers, if you were to throw it, like a frisbee or something like that,

just very level. He can't tell how they're being propelled or anything, but they're just simply moving along in a consistent direction. Saucers skipping on water was the phrase that just was run wild with, which wasn't even really in the first story. Because these were like a, he said, like a triangular shape or something.

Yeah. Yeah. So the reporters kind of eat it up, and I'm sure it probably didn't make front page. They never heard anything. like that. You also have a lot of people coming in for this air show, I'm assuming. So if you're picking up a newspaper

and you're there, there's going to be some scuttle butt about that. There's going to be some excitement. Apparently, this kind of just caught fire. And everybody started hearing about it. It gets written up in national papers. I don't really know what they felt like the validity of the story was, but maybe newspapers

back then didn't put their opinion into things. So maybe it was just like, rich man, flying in private plane, had something important to say about aliens. So this becomes like a national craze. So this happens, when was this that he saw this? It was like June. June 24th, 1947.

July 4th, 47, not Roswell, the signing by the United Airlines pilot. Okay. So July 4th, 47, a United Airlines pilot flying, I guess it was flight like 105 or something like that, reported seeing multiple flying discs. So you have this story. And I'm not quite sure. I would assume Kenneth probably if he's doing this. trip. He's probably down there pretty soon after June 24. So I don't know what the definitive date

when they ran this story. I assume if the air show was coming up and like you're saying, oh my God, it's alien related. It's something crazy. We got to get it. You know, run, run it. Run it. Run the story tonight. Get it to the presses. So this might have come out and already started making national news. Essentially when this airline pilot makes this claim to see multiple flying discs. It's just so convenient. I don't know if he had heard the story before he heard it or... Do you think the...

Or before he saw him? So like this becoming like a national craze where now everyone's going out and fucking looking for flying saucers in the sky. Do you think this came at a time because it was so soon after World War II during almost like a phase where for like the last what, six, seven years or prior, you know, prior to 45 and everything before the war ended, World War II. Go back and listen to the World War II episode. But do you think the nation was almost like in a state of boredom and like all of the, like,

excitement and stories and all of the news that had been coming out regarding the war this whole time? You probably would imagine that after 45, you know, the Nazis surrender, war with Japan goes on a little bit longer. After all that ends, news stories are still coming out about like stories. from the war and all this kind of stuff, maybe people just kind of got so saturated in that and so bored of that, that this being so different and kind of like low stakes and fantastical and all that stuff, maybe that's why it was able to like snag the nation like that.

I think it just snatched the nation up like we still see today. It did, but like anything, anything out of the ordinary, that's why we have the term viral now. Yeah. Because anything out of the ordinary will still catch our attention. Something that just takes you out of like, if you're, you know, have a mundane life or something like that. It's just something that takes you out of that. What do they call?

There's a word for that. It's not disassociation or is it? It could be. Yeah, it might be. Yeah, you just, you need some sort of a distraction from your mundane life. And I do think that this definitely, I wouldn't call it the levels of mass hysteria, but I do think that there was a little bit of that. going on and I think we see it more just with the amount of these things being reported all at once.

The other thing that I think sort of gets messed up in this whole thing is, and maybe it's just in my own mind. But when I think about like Kenneth Arnold, 1947, the guy's flying a, I think it was like a double engine Cessna, a private plane or whatever. That was probably pretty technologically savvy for 1947, right? a private pilot flying his own plane. Yeah, having a private plane like that that has like, you know, is using prop technology and everything that was developed during the war. Yeah, I'm assuming that that's someone of prominence, I would say. So in my mind, that always kind of translates into the crafts that they're talking about. We should have looked more into Kevin Arnold to see what he did because if he had any pull, what I'm saying is, like we speculated, if his industry was somehow

related to the war effort where he got rich off of doing that, he was ever in the news. He was ever in the newspapers, he came into this little Oregonian newspaper and was like, hey, I'm going to thought, I used to develop, here's my, my reputation and my, you know, fuck, not I guess my resume is that I developed fire, especially, I'm a very trustworthy, I'm a patriot, like all that kind of stuff. You know, what's the reasoning not to, to believe this person? Yeah, I think you could definitely say that he was using a little bit of that. I just feel like when I hear these stories, I always think that our technology was at somewhere, or like at point A, and this is also alien technology at point A, failing to realize in my own mind that they had to

have created these crafts and are so far technologically advanced that it's not like the old black and white like Mars attacks movies or anything like that. Whatever they're seeing up there is full HD 4K based upon like their black and white TVs. Yeah. It's just so far ahead of the curve that they really don't have an understanding of it. And that's where I think some of this stuff, it's like, oh, well, they were flying triangles. Yeah, we sort of came up with flying triangles in a way, sort of. Yeah, but in it, but for different reasons, I guess.

Yeah. Like, isn't a triangle supposed to be like the strongest, what is a sphere, the strongest shape or is a triangle the strongest shape? I have no idea. All I know is it's very aerodynamic. Yes. And these things that Arnold saw. Yeah. I don't know.

These things that Arnold saw were triangular, which probably wouldn't have been at the time. Well, here's the thing, though, too, is they don't have to be aerodynamic. There's no air in space. So you'd only have to be aerodynamic enough. And I'm telling you right now, if you have the ability to create a craft that's able to travel, you know, light years essentially, then you have at that point developed a craft that doesn't even have to take aerodynamics into play. you're developing something in which it's not moving through its environment, it's simply shaping its environment like around it, I think.

I worry about my scientific pay rate on this one. Well, so then in, so in June, or sorry, in July of 1947, what comes along at that point? Something just to feed into the craze. Yeah, June-ish July, I think. Yeah. Because this is the one thing that I find is so common with Roswell. is I watched three documentaries.

No definitive dates. It's just kind of a time frame. Yeah. There's no definitive dates. Everybody has a different spin on one central idea like as to how it happened. Yeah. And if you watch six different things, you're going to hear the same general ideas, but you're never going to be able to pinpoint the exact story because nobody ever tells it the same.

Yeah. So with Roswell, and also kind of misleading as well. So the whole thing with Roswell is essentially, in June to July of 1947, there was an alien craft that crashed. It didn't crash in Roswell, New Mexico. Roswell was the location of the military base that just happened to be closest to the crash. It actually took place closer to a place, was it called? I had it written down here.

Carmelo or? Yeah. Oh, it was Corona. Corona. Near Corona, New Mexico. So, this guy, uh, W. W. Mac Brazel finds out on several acres of his property, he finds essentially a bunch of wreckage. And it, the facts that were provided at the time doesn't lend to it being like an alien craft.

That somehow gets kind of brought into it later. But the things he was able to identify as part of the wreckage, he found like wood, he found rubber. Tinfoil. Tinfoil or whatever they were using for like the actual. balloons. It was the reflective, like, lightweight material. Not mylar, but maybe something. Something stronger than mylar, but I kind of same principle. I guess if you're kind of looking at a way for someone to understand what you're describing. And he basically was just like, huh, and basically just gathered it up and then like shoved it under like a bush.

Yeah, which old McDonald on his farm would definitely see a bunch of trash there and just be like, well, fuck, I don't want to carry all this. And I don't want to blow it away all over my property and everything. I'm just going to shove it underneath a brush. So even the night before that, or thereabouts right around there. And this story, this is a story that I heard two times out of like the eight things that I watched or listened to or read. Great story. Definitely fake names. Jim Ragsdale and Trudy True Love.

Trudy True Love sounds like the fakesful name ever. The alliteration. It sounds like an old school porn star. Yeah, maybe it was. Maybe this is. Jim Gagg. I know it's Ragsdale, but Jim Gaggsdale and Trudy True Love. It backed door aliens.

three. That's right. So they're out camping. They see something shoot very close to the earth. It looks like a shooting star or ship going down. They're in an area close to the ranch, right? Yeah, pretty close. So they hear the big boom. I guess there had been a big thunderstorm that night, but this one sounded way different. The next day, they get up, they jump back in their Jeep or whatever they have. They're following roads to try to come to sort of where they think that it landed. They start to see a couple things. laying on the ground, some tinfoilish material that they said, when you picked it up and you squeezed it and it crumpled, as soon as you opened your hand back up, it would shoot back to its normal. Yeah, I heard that described a bunch of times. It was like, uh, it was basically like almost foil,

like the thickness of foil and everything like that, but it was like strong. Yeah. But yeah, you could essentially bend it, fold it, and whenever you released your pressure off of it, it went back to essentially its original shape.

And I don't know, Did they say it was like a panel or a plate or something like that? It was a flat. A busted off piece of a spaceship. So they continued on and lo and behold, they come upon a circular shaped flat object that had crashed into the side of this little hill and go run up on it. And what do they see inside?

Little gray men. Dead little gray men. See, and this, of course, the fact that this thing crashes and creates a sound, loud enough for them to hear it crashing, but it's made of this and there's pieces, this thing wouldn't have any form. No, no. This thing crashing into a mountain would just be in a crater that would just have destroyed any form.

So to even say that, like, this wasn't like a crash landing or anything like that, but to say that they saw this and then they saw four-foot little, you know, little gray men and everything. And then what did the army end up showing up and pointing their guns at him to claim? That's the other thing, too, is somehow the army is so aware of these things. happening that they're able to show up a certain amount of hours right after it happened. When did Jim and Trudy come out with this? After McDonald came out with his story of finding the stuff.

Okay. And it helped confirm because they said that they saw the same foil. Oh, of course it does. But at the same time, from a logical perspective, it comes out after they're like, hey, weren't we camping there like a few months ago? Yeah, we should say we saw something too. But the stories themselves, then what are you saying? like the stuff that scattered over

Max Ranch was just pieces of it and everything, but it had wood and like, come on. Yeah, like more debris kept going after the crash. But sort of in that same form, Mac Brazzell goes into town and he is at the local bar. He is talking to some guys

and this is where he finds out about Kenneth Arnold. And spurred on by Kenneth Arnold's story, he goes and talks to the sheriff. Times could have been hard out of Max Ranch. you could have saw how much attention. And that's the other thing, too. How much of this is fueled by the attention they're seeing other people get?

Yeah. Yeah. And so he shows up to the sheriff. The sheriff calls, I believe it was. The Roswell base? Yep. Is that what it was?

It was the closest place to him, the closest Air Force base. And that situation, it wasn't like, hey, we have a local CIA office. We have a local, you know, they might have had a state police force, but at this point,

the military is still involved. in that and everything. So, of course, that's what he's going to call. He's assuming at this point, he's like, oh, it's probably a plane. Could be. So they're going to want to end the only people that own planes, or most likely, are going to be the military. So I'll call the air base.

Why in the fuck? It's like the RAF, but it's not the RAF, because I just remember the thing, the Royal Air Force. Yeah. I think it's RAAF, like the Roswell aircraft, airfield or something. Yeah. So he calls over there. and they run this up the chain of command

and they shake it on out that we get a guy named Major Jesse Marcell Major Jesse Marcell and Captain Dave Cavett Now going out to clean up some wreckage Major Jesse Marcel and a Captain Dave Cavett sound like they're probably pretty high up

In like guys that are going out and doing disposal of debris I mean, these guys could have been on the shit list of other people after they got these ranks and everything. Here's what I'm going to say. They're stationed out at the Roswell Air Base. And these guys could have been on, these guys could have got caught banging the freaking base commander's daughter or niece or something like that and been like, we just need something for these guys to do. It's either this or the train duty. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, here's your choices. Go check out this alien spacecraft or go clean the shitters. They're like, so which way is it to the aliens? You said this wasn't in Roswell? Okay, we're headed out there. So when they show up, apparently it's a pretty uncrazy affair. They find the stuff. They said that it was enough material to fit in a Jeep,

and they were able to take it away. They take it back to the airfield. It was enough to put under a bush. Yeah, I guess that's true. Couldn't have been that much. Well, I shoved it under this bush. I don't know where it all went. So they take it to the airfield.

They in turn fly it to an airfield in Fort Worth. I don't know if Fort Worth was like the daddy airfield, and then there were all little baby ones. But then we get to an interesting thing that at least I found it interesting. Fort Worth then flies it to a place called Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. In Ohio, yeah. And Wright-Patterson Air Force Base is, I don't know who all has heard of it, but this was kind of,

I've heard a little bit about it, but it's just because I used to be into aliens. Wright-Patterson Air Force Base is basically like the Area 51 of Ohio. In fact, I would say it's even more so because there's been a lot of unexplained things and a lot of conspiracy theories that come out of this place called Hanger 18.

Hanger 18 is where these alien spaceships were allegedly brought and studied. There's been a lot of stuff like Hanger 18, Area 51. These are the places that you see like at the fucking end of Raiders the Lost Ark, fantastic movie, where they're hiding the arc. That big,

the big warehouse where they keep all the mysterious stuff. I think it was also at the beginning of that horrible fucking crystal skull movie where they're actually keeping, because that's the whole thing about that movie. It's alien. So that's where they're keeping the alien bodies. Yeah. So,

the bedline fridge and all that shit. It's supposed to be this place where they're keeping all of the, fucking all the skeletons in the closet. Yeah, there's, we'll get to kind of some nutsier things that come out of, yeah, that's that one, come out of Patterson Air Force Base. A guy named Barry Goldwater,

I'm sure we'll end up talking about him for an episode or two eventually. But Barry Goldwater essentially tried to gain access to it because he sort of was an alien officiado. And his buddy at the base was like, don't you ever mention that to me again, you stupid son of a bitch? I never want to hear those words come out of your dirty, filthy mouth. So back home in Roswell, July 8th, there's a press conference that comes out that explains it as a weather balloon. Well, that came from the government.

Before this press release came out, one of the gentlemen that was like a liaison for the Air Force, he had given a statement to a reporter and had it run in the newspaper where he stated that it was an extraterrestrial craft, I believe, was the word, the verbiage that he used. And this was prior to that press conference. So it will kind of lend to the story to also mention, we're going to kind of bounce back and forth from a time frame on this, just because there's certain things that have to be mentioned. Around the same time as the end of World War II, there was a project called Project Mogul.

And it was, after it was determined, you know, we had the atom bomb and everything, but the Soviets were, you know, there had been information coming out. They were, you know, right behind us. So Project Mogul was essentially created as a monitoring system as advanced as we could have at the time that was supposed to detect the detonation. It's a dance that we had at the time.

We were still talking about balloons. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, as weird as it fucking sounds. Didn't we just like shoot down a balloon? Literally like a year ago. Yeah. That was a year ago. So apparently balloons are still hot shit, man.

They make no sound. But anyway. So Project Mogul was essentially a series of detection devices attached to these giant balloons that were floated up and they were supposed to, I don't know how you would continue. You're like, just hope the wind carries it over Russia, close enough. But they were supposed to detect essentially detonations of Soviet atomic bombs and nuclear devices so we would know when they had that capability. Yeah. Part of it was these balloons would fly high enough into the atmosphere that when a test was, you know, would happen. It would radiate up into the atmosphere far enough.

Spread out once it got up there and everything and it could detect the radioactive signature, whatever it was. Essentially, it's like a, almost like a Richter scale. Okay. Except in the air to where they could detect those things. And potentially, one of them got loose. I think they said that they lost two or three of them total. There was a shit ton of them. Yeah, but they had lost that fell off of the coordinated path. Yeah. I mean, we're talking about balloons. It probably wouldn't take you. You get a fucking goose flying at the right altitude, not paying attention, flying near a reflective surface that just

looks like the sky around it, going right through it. So, explanation, quite possibly, more than likely, yes. But why would you want to tell the people about this top secret... But they didn't. That's the whole point. I could see why essentially the military would go straight to

whether balloons were people, something people could wrap their heads around. They were just like, oh, it's a Balloon meant to detect the weather. Okay, I guess we don't understand enough about what you would need to do to make that work, but that makes sense of something that we think would be necessary. You've heard of it. You come out and you get the guy, the liaison. And who's to say this guy wasn't just fucking on his way out the door saying shit?

But at the same time, if you're the government and you're like, okay, well, we can either, first of all, the only reason that anybody knows that fucking nuclear, you know, detonation devices and atomic bombs are, capable is because they were actually used, not tested, but used during the fucking war. And so had that not even occurred, people would not know. So they don't know how it works. They didn't know the capabilities. For all intents and purposes, man, I think they maybe just thought that it was just giant bombs. They just worked upon the same principle as like T and T and shit.

Yeah. But if you're sitting there and you're like, okay, well, here's our options. We can just feed some bullshit that people will try to allow. on to because it's part of a craze right now. This is this is something topical that people are buying into. We can go ahead and have it discredited really, really simply. Or we can explain to these people, it's these balloons that are top secret that we've developed to spy on the Russians. And again, this is going to be at a time, you know, we're already in kind of a cold war. Oh, absolutely. Because we've already divided up the Nazi scientists. And that's another part that plays into this is you have the

were they done in Huntsville? It wasn't the proving grounds, but it was where Operation Paperclip was happening. Yeah, well, that was kind of next Washington. Huntsville's where they sent them all for like the Rocket Propulsion Labs. Yeah, okay. The development of like the space program, basically.

But yeah, we're firing V2 rockets that Warner Von Braun brought over to see if we can start testing. Again, that nobody knows about. Yeah. All secretive. And so you have the government saying we can either put this thing out there that sounds like horseshit, easily discredited. people are going to dismiss anybody talking about it as crazy.

Or we can basically tell these people, yeah, we have this technology that we're using to spy on the Soviets. When there was such a worry about this Cold War that was happening, we had to assume that there were already Soviet spies. Or that the information would get back to them very easily. Yeah. Well, we had, there were plenty of German spies during World War II in America. So our next likely culprits are probably going to be the Russians. Yeah. So it kind of ends there for a little while.

Like for a number of decades after the press releases and everything come out and they say that it's weather balloons. This kind of gets tamped down as far as Roswell as a whole. Do you think that also is, I'm not even saying maybe kind of even talking about it, maybe that guy wasn't going off script. They're like, we're going to release this press release, stir up a bunch of bullshit about this. Then we're going to release this thing about our weather balloon. then people are going to be so engrossed in arguing whether it was a weather balloon or whether it was an alien spacecraft that they're going to forget what it actually probably could have been. Absolutely. Yeah.

It's it's the fucking the scene in Deadpool where he orders the big guy the blowjob shot and says it's from the other dude. Yes. And they start fighting because he's trying to win the Deadpool. If we can get people. I don't eat the shits. I just stir them. Yeah. Yeah.

If we can get people fighting amongst themselves, we can keep doing our top secret shit. Because our top secret shit's really what we needed to hide. And there's going to be some top secret shit coming out. Oh, yeah. But we get to 1978 and that gentleman that went out and collected some of the wreckage, Jesse Marshall, Marcel. God, I don't know why I keep doing that. Marcel. He gets interviewed by the worst specialist.

And this has to just be a name that's made up because you couldn't get this sort of degree. but a euphologist. Mm-hmm. We can't just call them like UFOologists. The guys on ancient aliens call themselves ancient astronauts. That shit sounds funny to me. Do they, wait, they call themselves ancient astronauts or they call... Aliens ancient astronauts.

Okay, got you. But a euphologist is someone who believes and studies UFOs, which we don't really know if they exist. Biologists. Yeah, it just sounds like a fun name. It's not an official. I don't think it's an official. doctorate. No, you don't think I can be like a shoeologist or a foodologist

probably real. Maybe like DeVry or University of Phoenix Online or some shit like that. Southern New Hampshire University has a uphology department. And great name though Stanton Friedman. Yeah. That's a good name. Yeah, it sounds reputable to shit. And then you hear as a

euphologist, it's like, okay, well, he lied to me. But basically what he said was the weather balloon was just a cover story and that he believed that the wreckage is extraterrestrial. He goes on to explain. that before this press conference happens, they bring him in and he gets to look at the wreckage again. And then before it goes on stage to be pictured, there is a switch that happens. Ah, the old bait and switch.

Yeah, it turns out that that material that would spring back to shape was just replaced with tinfoil. And the wood was replaced with balsa wood, which makes it look even worse. The wood was replaced with other wood. Yeah, like cheaper, crappier wood. which again none of that none of that expensive ass alien wood that they used to construct their spaceships we don't even know if aliens have trees

because they might not need oxygen but hey they have wood somehow just dumb shit like that he allegedly had shown his maybe the aliens had come down to get samples of lumber and they were like let's take this back and they just didn't make it back they crashed on their return mission

could be yeah really any of this is up for granted we're gonna crack this bitch wide open this is where I don't want to call Marcel a liar at this point, but this is where I feel like there's some cracks in the story. Jesse Marcel Jr., his son, said that he actually had seen some of the wreckage. Hey, hey, hey, Jesse Marcel Jr. MD. Okay, sorry. He had claimed that his father had brought some of the materials home in that he saw them for himself.

Yeah, he said he saw like also there was like this purple like pillar type thing that had these weird, like weird glyphs. or something like that. And this is where it sort of becomes an issue for me is I know if I found something that may have been of alien origin, A, the last thing I would want to do is touch it and be the last thing I would want to do is expose a bunch of other people to it. Yeah, but how much of our opinions are determined and influenced

by all of the shit that we've seen as far as like alien movies and TV shows and all the bullshit and everything like that. it's almost like these people didn't know any better and again i'm not lending like credibility to this guy's story i'm just saying from that perspective those guys are just like oh cool metal and they like they're looking at it and at the same time we now know like if we were to see something our minds having seen all that kind of stuff even in like fiction and movies and stuff we're just kind of like yeah i've seen it's it's the thing where i know what happens to the campers out by the way which one of us is going to get murdered first like yeah

what's been influenced off of things we've seen. In the same vein, I've seen a lot of people hold snakes, and I will hold anything on this planet before I hold a snake. That's true. It's shit like that where it just seems like, if you really think this stuff is extraterrestrial. You think there's a survivability alarm that goes off. It's like, I shouldn't fucking touch this thing. Yeah, these guys are from outer space.

We saw what humans did to other humans by bringing over smallpox, and that was just from our own world. So imagine something out of this world. But then Marcel goes and tells the same story. to probably the most reputable institution of newspapers at the time, the National Inquirer. Of course. The headline... He addressed the inquiries of the nation, Adam.

Show some fucking respect. And I'm sure this is part of a little Easter egg that was hidden in men in black, but when they go to the newspaper stand, he picks up a National Enquirer. Because it actually provides the accurate information about Elvis going home and like aliens stole my husband's skin and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So he goes in, tells them the exact same thing. It kind of starts to become more of a legend where it's coming back up. People are like, yeah, that did happen. And that does seem like it was really weird.

Whatever happened to that? Did it just go away? This guy was super involved. How does he know all this stuff? It was a cover up? He's only as involved as he's telling these people. He could have dropped that shit off and then have been like, hey, thanks Marcel. Now go clean the fucking toilets.

And he was never involved. Because it doesn't, I mean, does it make sense that after he turns that over? They're like, we're going to let you hang around and see you's put it on stage and photograph it. They're going to be like, no, you were sent out there to fucking pick this shit up. You did your job, go do something else. Well, and eventually we do come to a time where the government does come out. Like, yeah, that wasn't a weather balloon. This was Project Mogul.

Like, we know about Project Mogul now because. Yeah, after the secrecy served no further use. Because of the release that comes out. We've already come up with far better ways to watch. this. And this was like later on, like after 1978. So at this point, and we're going to talk about this more. Like our spy capabilities are no longer contingent on fucking balloons. No. We have much more advanced stuff at this point. Yeah. And we'll get into that with Area 51. But they just, it's sort of one of those deals where Roswell sparked a certain amount of people.

And there was just tons and tons and tons of UFO calls after that. Yeah. They said that at one point there was like 800. I think it would be probably just a year. Yeah, no, no, no. It was like as soon as this stuff, yeah, this is what brought the weirdos out of the woodwork. As soon as they found out

that this is something that could create some type of like publicity, fame, people thought that there could be some type of monetary benefit on it. Everybody and anyone without a worry of damaging their reputations are coming out to tell them

about all these fucking alien encounters. Yeah, and that's where we run into, a man named Paul Benowitz in 1980. Paul Benowitz is an alien guy. He's really into him. He believes in him. He believes in UFOs. I don't think he was quite a uphologist yet.

I don't know if he'd taken his final test. But he feels that he sees some activity happening over the Air Force base that he lives close to. And while I think he was using his ham radio maybe, I don't know what... They're always using their ham radio. Yeah, something fucking weird. Some old-time.

weird thing. But he thinks that he picks up some communications going on between a planet of aliens and the Air Force because that's what's going to be able to receive it, your CB radio. Yeah, yeah. Just... Although

we've seen the movie in which what is it, Dennis Quaid and his son are able to communicate via ham radio throughout time. Well, here's the thing though. And that was completely rooted in scientific. Yeah. Benowitz wasn't actually wrong, wrong. He was only half wrong. He was stumbling on to radio

transmissions coming from the Air Force base between governmental agencies. So he believed and he ended up going to... He never, but at the same time he never was like, yeah, they're both speaking English. Like, man, these aliens are really good at English. Benowitz is going to, we're going to look at the unraveling here in a second. This all is great if you don't look into it even at all. Well, and this goes to show kind of how far the government went with this. Benowitz ended up reporting it. He had gone to, I think it was a local recruiting station or something, said, hey, I have some stuff. I got to talk to the office, excuse me, like the office of unexplained events, whatever. He goes over to the Air Force base and he's like, hey, I have been intercepting

transmissions about deals being made for the safety of aliens on this planet and the safe storage of alien crafts on this planet all in exchange for top secret alien uh like future stuff like alien technologies they're like oh really well what have you been hearing so he starts explaining to him they're like oh shit he found our radio signals we need to figure out how to make this happen. And of course their radio signals are probably discussing gathering like other types of like how we try to capture enemy planes reverse engineer, all that kind of stuff about you know shit like that. Well and at the same time I I don't really understand anything that the Air Force does. So if I were to hear some stuff them talking about like transporting planes or anything

like that it just wouldn't make any sense to me either. Everything is going to sound interesting or conspiratorious. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So they go ahead and turn this over to the CIA. The CIA is like, hey, this guy could be a useful idiot. He's kind of gained some popularity within these UFO circles. Let's see what we can do. So they go ahead and bring him in, start talking to him. They say that they want more details about this. They want to know more about what he knows. And there's this guy named William Moore that's assigned to him. It's kind of like his handler. They give him some, extra equipment. They start

feeding things to him over these radio waves that he's tuned into. I think they tried to use a separate language at one point to see if he could try to decipher something that they had just made up. To see what he could make of their bullshit. He ends up going crazy

because they did this to him for eight years. He went through this for eight years. Yeah, I think this was probably, if this is all actually accurate, I think that this is something to where it wasn't like, we can use this useful idiot or even that, I think they're like, hey, wasn't what's his name working on like some mind control shit and like psychological warfare stuff for the CIA? And he's like, yeah, he's like, this guy would probably be a, would be of interest. You bring that guy and he's like,

yeah, we're just going to feed you a bunch of fucking like signals and numbers and hidden fucking subliminal messages and that kind of shit. Eventually he goes crazy, accuses his wife being in control of the aliens. Doesn't he try to kill her? Yeah. I don't know. is that how they made him so crazy and his wife i'm sure probably wasn't too keen on him being like the alien guy so eventually somehow they had turned him against his own wife to where he's like you're the reason the aliens are here you're controlling the aliens probably was like my my wife is banging an alien yeah yeah so he ends up you intergalactic or how could you do this to me when the police are called he barricades himself in he's screaming about aliens uh ends up getting committed

goes to the sanitarium. As one does. As someone would. And this whole thing just sort of is like, well, what happened? You know, was this just something that the aliens drove him crazy or what was going on? And the government's come out at certain points and talked about when they do speak of aliens. Do you think it was one of those things where they were like after he got committed? They're like, see.

See what believing in aliens does to you? See where it gets you? And this is part of it, but they've come out and admitted that they will release some true information about what they know. But they'll also intentionally release bad information in order to muddy the waters. And then you don't know what's true. Exactly. So we could have heard some actual real information about aliens. But the chances are everything that we've heard besides like 1% of it is just all shit.

So they actually come out and there's a document that's declassified along with the confession from the William Moore, the handler guy. that detailed that the Air Force Office of Special Investigations put them on this plan to feed Benowitz as much shit about aliens as possible. I think it was some type of psychological warfare to drive him nights. Yeah, but they... That or he was just so obsessed about it and just so singularly focused on it that like he just drove himself crazy. Either or it's a win. They let him do that. Like at no point did they step in when they saw him slipping further and further down the John Nash.

There was no benefit for them to do that. were getting rid of a loose end. I'm not even saying that from the standpoint of like he knew something was going on. I'm just simply saying that like they just need to get rid of this guy that potentially overheard sensitive military information. And we're like, we could just drive him crazy

and then no one will believe anything he says, even if there's truth in anything. Yeah, you think they gave him like for every eight hours of bullshit. There was like two hours of truth. No, I don't think any of it was true. I think there was just enough to keep leading him along thinking that basically trying to feed

him stuff that he already believed, but it was just confirming that information to keep him going. Yeah. I think he was useful as a tool into they could have told him some true shit. And then he repeated that true shit to the other UFO people. And then they drove him nuts. But we've just had a million different things come out. There was something, I watched this video multiple times because it was just so bad. In 1995, there was a video released by a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, video director named Ray Santilli. Did you see this video that Santilli had released? Is it the one where the doctor in the traditional surgeon garb is like standing over?

Like, why is that, why is this guy have that video? Was he the one shooting it? So he claimed that this was a real video that happened at Patterson Air Force Base. Okay. Shot by him or he just acquired the video? He had acquired the video. Okay. So it shows this really rubbery-looking alien.

He looked like the alien from Paul. Yeah, exactly the big head, big eyes, yeah. He had a big leg wound on his right side, and it basically shows the alien dissection. It was shot black and white on like 47 millimeter. I don't remember what it was, but the filming of the time, it was filmed on that sort of camera film. This made waves everywhere.

This is like 1995, we're talking like the beginnings of the internet. So this shit was starting to be spread more and more and more. Oh, Ray finally comes out. Coincidentally, prop making has also been advancing as well. Ray comes out and he goes, well, so the video is true. But we actually had to recreate the video from the beliefs of people that were there. The accounts, yeah. Excuse me.

Yeah, the accounts that told us exactly what happened. We reshot it and then we showed them and they're like, oh, yeah, that's exactly what happened. Like, you guys made this perfect. And so the video comes out as fake. Well, I think it was 2021 when Bitcoin was popping off. The federal government released a, or not Bitcoin, NFTs. Okay. The federal government, the CIA released an NFT.

of one of the screen frames from the movie. Basically, like, are they admitting that this was true? No, it's just a fucking jab. Yeah, they're just completely fucking with them. But people see that and they're like,

well, I mean, it could be true because the government, is this a government... It's that weird game of minding, like, okay, are they releasing this because they want us to think that it's fake, but that's exactly what someone that would be trying to protect the truth would be trying to lead us into thinking it's fake. Yeah. Yeah. So,

they're just mind games that constantly play with these people and it's just so crazy that it's you don't think that the government has a sense of humor because they're the government and I think it's good to have a healthy distrust for a lot of the things the government says unless it's backed up by science or common sense

anything like that but it's almost like the government may know they have to know more about aliens than we do 100% but at the same time just from strictly a access to information and surveillance and all of that kind of stuff. Yes, of course they know more about that stuff. Here's the thing. They'll, I haven't, you know, I know when they release information, but I don't pay attention enough to what's, what else is going on. Yeah. That that may be just serving as a distraction to try to draw attention off of. So I can't say

why they're released. I know a lot of the stuff that came out as far as actual like videos from like, military aircraft and everything. A lot of that was found during like Freedom Information Act searches. So that stuff is available once people had to start digging for it. But at the same time, there's like what, there's no purpose. Like if we're really going to boil it down, even if, you know, the government, and I believe 100% that they know much more than they have lit on, but it doesn't serve any purpose to come out and say, it would serve only negative consequences. If they were to come out and say, full on, yes, extraterrestrials exist, we have seen their craft. No one can explain that we've confirmed with other governments, that they can't

confirm what these things are either. They don't belong on this planet, or they're not from this planet. What that does, and this was kind of a point that, I don't know if you want to discuss it now, or kind of once we get done with Area 51, but what would the repercussions, just even from a religious standpoint, serve if there was an admission that there was life other than us. Because almost every religion, the focal point is that we, as far as humanity, are unique and special and the only ones. And if, you know, a cornerstone of established religions are based on the fact that everything only has happened here and we're the only creation of God, Allah, whatever you want to call it, if that's, that part of that cornerstone is taken out, I think the

whole system collapses, because then that opens the door of saying, well, if that wasn't true, then this can't be true and this can't be true. And regardless of what we want to say, there's still such a integrated structure of religion within government, especially when you still have, you know, like the Catholic Church and like Vatican City and as much controls they have over certain aspects of life, it takes too much power out of those hands. I just think it would lead to too much chaos because then at the same time,

people are thinking, well, then, like, if we're not special, like how much of our, I don't know, not belief, but like pride of being humans or something is simply based on the fact that we think that we're somehow special and the only ones? I don't really think that religion would take a hit.

You don't think religion would take a hit? No. Well, we have a Catholic church who has admitted to molesting tens of thousands of children. Yeah, but they're still cool. Yeah, but that's not attacking a cornerstone. That's the church being able to say this, these are isolated incidents based on how many people we employ and how many priests we have and how long we've been in, you know, in business. I'm just going to say in business because that's what it fucking is. There's an easy out, though.

The passage, I don't remember, it's got to be in the first book, but God created the heavens and the earth. God created the heavens and the earth that we know of, but if these aliens are coming from another universe and another galaxy, that may not have been something that our God had created. But isn't it something to the point where everything that we're able to see is supposed to be under the purview or the creation, whatever, everything that we're able to see? Because technically when they say the heavens, it's the sky. Yeah.

The heavens and the earth. Anything that we can see out there. And I mean, of course, we can't see without telescopes and stuff like that. And we're not able to see really outside of our own galaxy and everything. But... Bingo. Okay. I get that. But also at the same time, too, I was thinking about this. Is gambling against... Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. So religion has rule against gambling. Isn't the fact that if God just created just us and just us as the dominant species, isn't that a pretty big gamble that you put all your eggs in one basket? That to me is like the ultimate gamble. That if you're this almighty omnipotent being and you're wanting to create the best possible scenario of a species or something like that, you're going to need to go ahead and any, you know, it's like testing for a researcher or a scientist. They don't just do one test and then just wait to see what happens. They're doing multiple tests all running at the same time under different environments in different circumstances to get the most favorable result.

That's not a gamble. That's just a scientific process. A gamble would just be like, we're making sure everything is riding on this one chance to see if this one's going to work out. So in that sense, too, by admission, if you're able to prove or to say, no, we're not the only intelligent life.

It doesn't have to be humans, of course, or anything like that. But to say that there is even other life or even other intelligent life, which would be an admission that if they're able to get here, they're much more advanced than we are, then at that point, that removes that off the table and saying, well,

if there is God, did God create other one? Wow, that goes against everything that we believe that we were the only ones. Yeah, you just basically made up a defense and an argument for religion to say that God created others. Because they could say,

by using science and the scientific method that we use now, we were created, but he also was smart enough to try to create others to breed, breed on other plants. Not really, because... No, no, no. Oh, sorry, I meant the other way, by only creating us. I just, I think that if that happened and it showed that there was some type of, and if you want to say a higher power in regards to like extra tourist or life, because technically

being a more advanced and powerful civilization, that would technically fall under the definition of a higher power, then you're basically saying that like, yeah, what the things, that we believe in, the things that modern religion is built on are built on. In fact, like, unsupported and, you know, non-factual information. I just feel like the churches have survived so much shit that it's, like, as far as aliens go, and like, if we came out and admitted that it was all real and everything, like, aliens do exist. We have footage of them, all that shit. I don't think it would do much.

I think the other thing, too, is that when they do release this kind of information, I think the whole thing that they're banking on is just what they've seen out of humanity. People get over shit. People are more worried about their day-to-day. And also the fact that if they were to, yeah, and they were to come and say there are aliens, people will be like, and so if they're advanced enough

to get over here and we can't even, like, really detect them, what are we supposed to do? There's nothing for us to do. Like, we're so far out of our fucking league that even worrying about it is pointless. This is essentially. something that we already live with except to a lesser extent because we do really and truly live every single day, day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute, living under the guise of knowing

that other countries that don't like us have nuclear weapons and could launch them for any reason at any time and there's a really good chance that they're going to get through and we'll just be wiped out. Yeah. We still go ahead and go to work every day and live our daily lives. That's what I'm saying. Is there able to feed bits of information, whether it be factual or not? And even if it's taken as fact, like the military stuff that we're going to talk about a little bit later that's come out, you look at that. And that might captivate you for a little bit. It might change your opinion on something.

But it's not going to change your paying taxes. That's not going to change you going to work or anything like that. And the difference between the atomic bomb and aliens is we saw what an atomic bomb could do. We don't know what the fuck aliens want. We don't know if they're going to come down and just. give us high fives. No, if we developed the ability to destroy the planet before we could even fucking get into space, then that means that what do they, yeah, what do they have? They have something that's so far beyond that of our comprehension that us even being concerned about it, like,

there's no way we could stop that. I'd also like to believe to that as advanced as they had gotten, maybe they had moved past weed. Like, maybe they're simply, civilizations had moved past weed and they're like hey so we're going to share some stuff with you from our planet all this speech technology shit that you have no idea about what do you got for us you like you guys ever heard a weed and they're like what's that and like just smoke it and you'll understand and they're smoking and they're like wait a second we take a pill to fire up the dopamine receptors in our we don't even have to take a pill we've evolved enough to where we have a button that we can push or we have our dopamine receptors are just heightened naturally over the course of

our evolution, we found that we don't even need this anymore. It's now been bioengineered into our systems to where we operate only add a heightened sense of like wonder and curiosity, which is why we were able to then focus on this shit, getting fucking exploring space and not on killing each other. You guys are still in the killing each other phase because you can't fucking work together. All right, let's circle back around. Let's do Area 51 and then let's talk about some of the more current stuff. But before we do that, bathroom break? Yeah. Well, hey there, all you sexy historians, how are you guys doing?

It is time for socials. Where can they find us on Instagram? If they want to follow us, they can find us at a historically high pod on Instagram. That goes the same for threads as well. You can also find us on Twitter. Tell them about Twitter. Historically high. That's historically high.

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All right, back on the mothership. All right, so area 51. You dick, did you just think of that? Yeah. So, area 51. Area 51 is basically a man, not even really a code name. It's only been called Area 51 on actual releases and like very few documents, like a couple of them that were found during the Freedom of Information Act search.

But essentially what it is is it's a military Air Force base that is located next to Groom Lake in Nevada, 83 miles northwest of Vegas. What do you, I realize that's where like, it's within, I'm trying to remember what the range it's in. It's like the testing range, the Nevada test range, where they do all the bombing and ordinance testing. So it's located in there, so it's already a military-controlled area when they developed it.

And it was actually created basically by the Air Force and the CIA in 1955 for the development of top secret projects. So anytime you're developing a mysterious base at this point, you know, it's the 50s. People are, you know, it's closer to Vegas. You're going to have planes flying in and out. People are going to notice something, regardless of if you're trying to keep anybody out of the airspace or not. At some point, someone's going to be like, hey, there didn't used to be something down here, did there?

What is that? Eh, no one knows. So basically, it's the most famous top secret thing in the world. Yes. And it's, hey, it has to be this way, because like you just said, they actually have a dedicated airline that flies from, it's like Harry Reid Airport in Las Vegas. It's called Janet Airlines. And it's a dedicated airline that takes people every day that 83 miles to the base and a blacked out windows or like a, all the windows are blacked out in the plane.

Yeah, it's just like a white, white plane with a red stripe on it. That these guys get onto every day, men, women, everybody gets on to every day. then once they land they're bused in a blacked out windowed bus to wherever they're working on the base that day and that's where they work so we have a top secret thing where it's coming out of an airport

where there's people like the fuck does that line go to what is that plane with the blacked out windows what is that and it's still close enough to this UFO craze and Roswell whether you believe any of that shit or not but it's still close enough to that where people are like okay it's top secret no one knows what's going on

out there. Common, you know, just the general public isn't going to try to wrap their heads around. I mean, like, well, you know, someone comes on, well, you know, the military could just be creating like a new type of, like, airplane and, like, weapons and stuff like that. They're like, no, no, that's not. It's got to be aliens. There's got to be some alien shit going on or out there. To make things even more confusing, um, area 51, the Air Force base is a detachment of California's Edwards Air Force base, even though it's 83 miles away from Las Vegas. Yeah. So I don't know why it would be a detachment from California, and that seems really weird.

I think it was just more so that maybe that was the largest air base in the area, so that just had control over it. Well, it was just an offshoot. Or, and go with me on this one, if Lockheed Martin's testing facilities are in California, and you need a way to cover flying things into Area 51, from Lockheed Martin's bases. Do you want to call it Area 51 this whole time or should we call it Homey Airport or Paradise Ranch? I don't think it's Homey Airport because I don't think you get to make any friends. That's true.

It's Homey H-O-M-E-Y, not H-O-M-E-E-E. But it has a number of names between Area 51, Groom Lake, Homi Air Force Base Airport, whatever you want to call it. Groom Lake or whatever, yeah. But it just feels like it does make a ton of sense if you have Lockheed Martin in California, Edwards, you want to see planes calling it a detachment of Edwards. Just like, okay, we're just bringing shit in from there. Yeah, and the other thing, too, is, you know, you can't exactly start testing all this

secretive shit. Not only with Edwards Air Force Base being closer to the coast in California, it's a more populated area. And chances of essentially, like, being spied on are going to be, you know, for planes coming over international waters. It's just, it's not as secretive. And then the Nevada test range that I was talking about, it's the same size. is Connecticut.

So I mean, there's definitely a lot of room that people aren't able to get into this area. And what better cover than like, oh yeah, don't fly in here

because this is where we test the bombs and shit that goes boom. Just think about that. This entire testing range that they're on is the size of a state in the United States.

Yeah. And it's, this is all encapsulated inside of big ass Nevada. And it's just like, don't fucking come here. So the main reason that,

you know, this Air Force Base Area 51 is created is for the development of spy planes and what's the best thing to have for planes vast amounts of runway and what's grim like it's a salt flat so it's not even a lake

so it was a lake but now it's essentially a salt flat and that's even how they picked it up they were doing like a survey and they said as they flew over this area they looked down there like is that a salt flat they're like yeah it's a dry lake bed and they're like within 30 seconds even the plane that was scouting they landed it on the self-like this yeah and it was already essentially

level hard flat they had to do little minimal work it was in an area that they were already that was already top secret that people weren't coming in and they're like yeah we're just going to test all of our top secret shit here the other thing too is when you start developing these top secret planes that

no one has even conceived ever seen before they're going to look a lot fucking different than anything else, especially if they're meant to avoid detection. Like when they first start developing these planes, like to compare now, if you look at a, even now, like the F-22, it's a stealth fighter jet.

It's developed like that. You start going back and looking at like stealth bombers. You look at the B-3, the one that looks like kind of a hawk, like a bird of prey with the huge wing swoops on it. That is a flying triangle that looks like nothing you'd ever seen before. It all blends together in like a single-wing structure. And then even before that,

had the smaller, I'm trying to remember, it wasn't the SR 71, it was the one after that. It was the smaller stealth bomber that was more triangular shape too. Not the A12, but the S-21 or whatever they called. Something like that that had all the angles to it and everything. Yeah, that's the number one thing that I realized when

doing this research is as I started to see what technologically planes look like back then, even to my brain now, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's why you thought this was a flying saucer. Like, that's why you thought this was aliens. Because my 2023 brain now looking at it's like, that's not human.

That looks nothing like the planes that I'm used to see. Yeah. But it's still flying. Like, how is it flying? It doesn't look like anything like that. So you got to think back in the 70s, and that's the biggest thing I think is a lot of this, is people's frame of reference just did not add up to what was being tested. So if you see shit that you've never seen before, you're going to be like, that's not real.

That's not really. That's not. Yeah, that one. So the first thing that they start developing here is actually Lockheed is developing the U2 recon aircraft. Project Aquitone. Oh, come on. You've got to think of it better. You know what?

But if you make a project name too badass, I think it draws too much attention. If you're walking around someone's office and you happen to see a folder marked Project Aquitone on their desk, you're like, so new sunscreen for the military? Yeah, I was going to say, isn't Aquitone like a clone? 4 is a lotion or some type something like that but I think aquatone's just an old ass cologne It's like Pachuli or something like that. Oh That's what it is. That's right. See?

Maybe that's the whole point though. We're going to confuse people to think it's a new sunscreen. It's a new cologne. All kinds of crazy shit that the government's trying to do. It turns out that Project Aquitone was bringing us the Lockheed U2 recon aircraft. And in 1955 thinking that we would have a recon aircraft. There's a lot of shit too that we see now. Like, I didn't realize that they were using the word drones

as far back as they were. Hmm. I didn't know, but what did it like reference? Like actually unmanned aircraft? Yeah, we'll get to that with the A12 when we talk about it. But this deal, the U2 spy plane was like, I think at the time it was commercial, flies at 20,000 feet, military flies at 40,000 feet. This U2 was going to be flying up at 60,000 feet in order to help it not be detected on radar.

Yeah, with the sole purpose. Again, we're right smack dab in the Cold War at this point. The sole purpose of this thing is to basically fly over the Soviet Union and see what the fuck is going on over there without getting shot down. Yeah. So that's where we get what you were talking about when they were looking for the area. Dick Bissell Jr. was the one that realized that they needed the... great fucking name.

It is pretty good. It's like a kid's mustache, Dick Bissell Jr. But once they found the area, it was perfect for what they needed it to. But you have to have people there. You have to have people working there. You have to have people essentially needing to move there or move somewhere close to there to be able to go out and work on it. And this place was dog shit.

It was a testing range. Yeah. Why would anybody ever want to go? there unless you name it Paradise Ranch. That's right. Which was essentially just a series of what, like barracks and like a small town, like a small town of like wooden structures and everything. At the middle of the desert.

There's no, no paradise around there. There's definitely not a ranch. And so all of this starts, 195 were what that's eight years removed from Roswell. Yeah. And everything from Roswell, like we say, was taken back to, Patterson Air Force Base. And you're still in that same area too. Sort of. Yeah.

This is in Nevada, New Mexico, very close. You're still in that same area. You're also in the area where there's been extensive nuclear testing being done as well. Yeah. That's a very good point. I think that's when we were talking in Oppenheimer about the testing facilities when they were testing those atomic bombs and they would get the blow into Las Vegas. Yeah, well, remember when we were talking about it in Las Vegas episode,

they used to have the atomic bomb. watch parties. That's right. Where they would know they were being set off and they would fucking like be serving fucking drinks and shit while people watch the detonation from Vegas. Yeah. So this is an area that's already kind of a part of some weird shit. That's what I'm saying is like do you think they also kind of figured like people around

here are kind of already used to seeing weird shit? So they'll just chalk it up to more weird shit. These people live in a desert. Yeah, there's already something a little off about. A desert, just chockful gambling and prostitution. Yeah. It's already, who's going to believe these people anyway? You see?

Yeah, credibility there. So the first U2 test flights, they begin on July 24th of 195. And you basically have these planes flying around being tested where, you know, even if people catching a glimpse of them, it's like something they haven't seen before. And so it starts to build the reputation of like, there's secretive shit going on over there. And really, these planes, as they're climbing and gaining in altitude, they're pretty metallic. They're pretty shiny. I actually thought...

The sun glinting off of them. Yeah, maybe the initial ones. Because I think when you're first testing an aircraft, you're simply just testing it for the simplicity of like, does this thing fly? Does it stay airborne? What's the performance like? After that, then you're like, okay,

now we need to make this thing less detectable. And so they start painting it Matt Black and doing all of the, you know, stealth type shit to it that you can't, you know, whatever's available at the time. And that's really sort of where this all comes from was we had the YouTube, there was some shit that we'll talk about sort of that sets up why the U2 went out of fashion

went out of style but we have something called Project OXCart that was started August 1959 and this began like we were you were just talking about with the colors of the matte black and everything like that we needed something that was anti-radar and anti-radar because we had to replace the U-2 with something called an A-12 And an A12 is in 1960. Allegedly, I want to say that I heard that it broke like Mach 3. Yeah, so the A12 is the precursor to the SR 71 Blackbird. SR71 Blackbird, I'm just trying to think of some references if you're not into military aviation or anything.

The plane off of X-Men first class that they use, pretty much the inspiration for the classic 1990s X-Men cartoon. The X-Jet that they use is basically an SR-71 Blackbird. takes off from underneath the basketball court at the Ex-Manchion. Okay. So that's the one with the huge turbine engines off to the site. It doesn't look like it has wings. It's all just like a solid structure with a huge nose on it. So, yeah, again, you're developing these planes and constantly testing them.

Now, I do want to note prior to this, there's a project called Project Blue Book. Now, it's not a military project per se for the development of aircraft, but Project Blue Book was essentially the government's first foray. Yeah, first for Ray into a UFO research program. And it ran from March 1952 to December 7, 1969. That's when it ended. But again, there was probably already something in place. There's a whole bunch of names for other types of projects and everything that looked into extraterrestrials.

Yeah, and they kind of, I want to say there was three different things. There was Project Blue Book. And then I think there was two others that came after. One of them is A-TIP, the Advanced Aerial Threat, something. But they put on their best face, and not to mention if you do have a top secret facility that's sending some shit out, and then you start getting all these calls about these UFOs, you got to realize that people are seeing the shit that you want to keep top secret. So it's also helping you to know how good you are at trying to hide these things. If somebody's standing out in their field, they're like, what the fuck is that?

If you send that over into an airspace that's not friendly, they're just going to shoot that down. Well, coincidentally on that, so in 1960, Soviet Union shot down one of our U-2s, which Everything kind of propagates everything else. So, like, had the U-2 not been shot down by the Soviet Union, they actually captured a lot of the plane kind of intact, didn't they? Yeah, and that goes against our earlier point that a alien aircraft would have been smashed to shit because they were able to catch Gary alive, and the wreckage was still intact enough

that they were able to get his super top secret camera. that he was using to film the area. They got enough information off of the crash to be able to say like, and you're just not flying over, you're fucking taken. They knew that there was some type of like surveillance. Yeah, well,

the government tried to say that it was a weather plane that got off course and that's what got shot down. So in essence, the weather balloon project mogul, weather plane, you two spike lane. We're going back to the weather well. This seemed to work for us in the past.

But it just kind of like then feeds into now we have to develop a new plane. What? Now people are going to see this other strange thing flying around area 51. So it just kind of keeps feeding into it just based on like the necessity of the military to keep a fucking advancing these planes.

Well, and the first A12s didn't get to Groom Lake until 1962. And the way that this would work would be Lockhey would start construction in theirs. They would get something built. Then they would completely disassemble it, put it in cargo.

Can't fly over all those highly populated areas. Well, and they hadn't technically. flown it yet. Okay. So they wanted to take it out to the testing field to do it. So you're deconstructing it, you're boxing it up, you're sending it to Area 51. That's going to play a role in a Bob Lazar talk. People are seeing these weird

unmarked transports, always traveling into Area 51 for all this kind of stuff without any answers. It really kind of starts to make the mind wonder, like, what is coming in there, what is going on. There was a total of nine of them that were stationed in Area 51, and it was like a fleet that they had, it was like,

a top secret, like if the shit hits the fan, this is the fleet of A12s that we're going to send. Like, this is our top choice. Yeah. Luckily, they never had to. The government, after the weather plane had kind of gone south because the KGB spent just months and months and months trying to get Gary Powers to admit what he did, what he was doing over there. And finally he did. finally came out and said, you know, I was in a U-2 spy plane, I was sent here by the CIA. Gary Powers wasn't even a part of the Air Force.

Gary Powers was a part of the CIA, I believe. That's right. So he was even on, like, beyond the Air Force, like, the fuck are you guys doing? That's not us. We've never seen that. As the Air Force, we don't know what that is. Where did you guys get at the fucking U-2? Yeah.

Even at home, people are confused because they have no idea what. U2 is. I believe this is kind of where we run into what you were talking about, the SR21. Actually, that may have been the next one. Next in line is the D-21 that was finished in April of 1964. They disassembled it at Lockheed. They sent it to Area 51. And this was going to be the first unmanned drone in 1964.

Yeah, so the A-12 was essentially the precursor, the SR-71. It was like a proto-model of it. the D-21, that was actually the first unmanned drone that was actually set to go on top of the A-12 that once the A-12 was cruising or I don't know if it was like, hey, when you get into danger, launch this, or launch this once you're into the airspace and then you can get out of there

and if this ain't get shot down, we don't have a fucking CAA guy sitting inside it and he'll fucking talk. So to think that we were already to drones in 1964 almost makes you think maybe they had a head start. Maybe some alien influence could have giving them this idea. There were V2 rockets that were unmaned

that were being launched at London during World War II. I don't know what the technology of this unmanned. Technically you could get away with calling a lot of stuff in an unmanned drone if it's the first one. Yeah, technically a paper airplane's an unmanned drone. That's true. So eventually that program's scrapped just because they really don't have the ideas

to get this drone to work correctly. And the ones that they did have were stored. All of the machining and equipment and shit that they were using to make it was just burned. So like all the paints and chemicals and everything like that, they just threw it all in a burn pit and let it burn, baby. To get rid of it, because that's the easiest way to make sure you can't find anything.

The other thing that they did that was actually pretty cool was they became like the Cold War Research Center. Yeah. So if we were to pick off any Soviet airplanes or anything like that. Yeah, there were a whole bunch of like, I think they were at some point during like the 50s or 60s, they were in possession of a couple of Migs. Yeah.

that had been like either captured. I think one of them was captured by like Israel and they sent it over to us and then other ones that we had possibly shot down possibly like over Alaska or something like that. They were basically sent there. And it was the same thing that the Russians were doing with the U2.

As soon as, you know, warfare started, as soon as someone had something different or you thought slightly better, you captured it, you reversed engineered, took what you could from it. And that was going on on both sides. But yeah, what better place to reverse engineer

and disassemble and research this kind of stuff than the top secret base you already have developing other top secret stuff. And you have all these massive runways out there because each time that they would bring something new into test they would have to expand a runway on Groom Lake, make something bigger. Make new hangers to park it underneath and stop

being photographed. So they were reverse engineering these Russian things, these Russian aircrafts, anything like that and starting to see kind of where we stacked up and where they stacked up maybe if they had something that we didn't really understand. We could reverse

engineer that and try to build it up that way, which I'm sure they did with the U2. It seems like by the time the U2 crashed, we were already kind of on to the A12, so we were sort of moving up the chain of what we needed. But then we get the F-117. And this was

the first one that I saw was like, okay, this was the early 80s. I think that's what the SR 22 was. Yeah, so the F, so yeah, so, well actually the SR-72, I think the F-1-1-1 seven is the one I was talking about that like if you're looking at it from the bottom, it looks very triangular shape.

Yeah, it looks like a stingray or like a manor ray. Exactly. And it's got this split tail that goes, yeah. And then if you look at it from the front, it almost looks like a triangle again where the cockpit goes up. And basically during their research, they determined that when, you know, they're sending up traditional radar signals like we kind of talked about earlier, it bounces off the object, comes down, that's how able to determine something's there.

The whole point of developing this and why it looks so strange for the time is that it had all these angled surfaces, and the whole point was to create essentially so many angles that when it reflected the signal, it would only send back a smaller signature because you're only getting, you know, it's kind of like if you're pointing a, like, point something, like a flashlight at a disco ball, you get all the refractions that are coming off at all different directions. Shine a flashlight at a mirror that's just flat, and it's going to go ahead and show the light behind you, it's going to reflect it in a very large beam, so you're getting a bigger signature. When the radar goes up and it gets dispersed by all these different angles, the signature coming back, it's still detectable, but it's like, that's too small to be a plane.

It's got to be like a flock of birds or some shit like that. So that was the whole point. These like stealth aircraft, it's not technically that they're invisible to radar. It's that they mask their signatures and create such a small, essentially body or radar surface to reflect off of that they look like very small, not able to be a plane. That was the explanation of the episode. Was it? Yeah, I had no idea how that all worked, and you explained that to me perfectly. That's crazy.

I try. Okay. So that was being tested. So that makes more sense as to why everything starts to be shaped that way. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, because if you're thinking of a traditional plane, if you're looking at it, the fuselage itself for like World War II bombers and like things like that, you know, fuselage may be circular, but when you look into those wings, big, fucking flat areas that you're going to get a big, hefty radar signature off. of.

Huh. So that was being developed in the early 80s, I think. And then, again, this place is just like the breeding ground for other stealth technologies to being used using, you know, curved surfaces, composite materials. The paint and materials that they use on some of those are actually radar absorbent. They actually absorb the signal. So when they send it back, it's much weaker and smaller. So, I mean, they're doing anything and everything.

But again, you're launching all of these planes from this location, each one looking. crazier than the next and people are just like, this is, this is fucking, it's not witchcraft, because we don't believe in that shit, so it's got to be some type of aliens. When I was watching documentaries and I saw the F-117 for the first time, I thought it was a Roswell documentary because that shit didn't look, like I say, it didn't look human to me. It didn't look like it was built in the way that we would have done it. Yeah. Had you put me back in the 80s when that was being built and I saw one of those take off,

I'd be like, yeah, there's fucking aliens. Yeah. Especially if you compare it like when you're talking to, about back for what's his name Kenneth. It's a triangular shape. You're like, that's a triangular shape. Plains aren't triangular shape. Any of the planes I've seen, like, what the fuck's going on here?

So as, you know, as time went on, the federal government, they continue buying a plan surrounding the area, basically expanding the area that they're able to keep people from getting closer, increasing security, you're getting surveillance out there and all that kind of shit. They made it very clear that the security surrounding the base did have the authority to shoot to kill. So they weren't making this. They had areas where, like, you could actually hike in and you could look down and you could see into the base. They actually took it so seriously that when we started using satellites, the government would say that you couldn't release satellite imagery of anywhere around area 51.

It's the same thing now. So like Google Earth, if you search certain places on Google Earth for like air bases and things like that, some of them will pop up and they'll just be blurred. No way. Yeah. So you're not able to see certain things. I know we still did it. Yeah. Huh.

Yeah, there's certain things that still can't be disclosed. But yeah, from the mid-50s on, more and more UFO sightings are being reported. And again, these aren't just around that area, but just more and more throughout the country. Because, again, to test these things, yeah, you do have this area that's now larger than Connecticut. But at the same time, you can't just say, well, our plane can make it the distance of Connecticut back and forth a whole bunch. You're needing to test these planes to get all the... the way around the world. Yeah.

You have to get the U-2 close enough. You can't launch the U-2 from Area 51 and have it cross over the Soviet Union. You have to move them to Air Force bases that are closer. Correct. Or you have to be able to test their flights for distances. Yeah. So regardless if they're still flying at whatever, you said, like 40,000 feet or even higher, 60,000, you're still seeing those coming and going at certain points.

And especially if, you know, you're flying, and I'm sure they made sure that they stayed away from commercial planes. but at the same time, like, you know, keeping track of all that, it's still possible that during the ascent of one of these, someone looks out there, plain window, and it's like, what the fuck is that? And before they get the attention of anyone else, they're like, it's gone there, like, what was it?

And it was black, but it was small and it was trying, like, yeah. So when a lot of these sightings would come in, you know, Project Blue Book, probably also created in part to kind of receive this information, part of it also makes me think, too, the Project Blue Book, when they're getting all these reports. part of this reporting was because they were able to say like, okay, we got this report from this area at this time. Check the flight logs for all the test flights from Area 51.

These are ours. At the same time, if they're like, that's not ours, that essentially was like, okay, someone else is testing something around us. We need to look into this. Or these people are nuts. Yes. Or it's aliens. Could be.

They said, I want to say all in total, it was something like 5,000 reports that they had gotten, and they were able to whittle it down to where everything, they could explain everything but like 700 of the reported sightings. Which it still seems like a lot. Yeah, still seems like a lot, but they considered it enough to be like, ah, well. Tricks of the eyes, swamp gas and weather balloons, all that kind of stuff.

The other thing that really kind of gets me about a lot of these, like the people that say it, is the memory is, the memory is such a tricky thing that if you did have something that went on in your life, but you don't really remember it. And then you hear all these other stories of like, oh, well, this happened. They inadvertently fill in the blanks. Yeah. It sort of helps.

It influenced your story. And a lot of the Roswell stuff, there was a lot of people that came forward. And they said, well, we talked to McDonald. We talked to somebody that was involved. We talked to the sheriff. And we remember them saying this. Or we remember seeing this. It's like, no, you just heard.

10 people say it, and then you just happen to... It's weird what you're describing showed up in popular mechanics. Uh-huh. Yeah. Six months ago. It's very similar to that story that showed up. And that's the thing, that's the issue that I have with aliens. Is we'll talk about Lazar and some of the bad things that came out of Area 51.

But when we see like the, basically the Hollywood portrayal of aliens, I think is sort of the working theory for everybody. Yeah. And it blows me away because this is... was a thought that I had had when I was high and it kind of made me panic for a second. This was an anxiety-inducing thought, but the portrayal that we see of aliens could be so far off because we use the senses that we have to believe that they have the same senses. Yes. Like, we have creatures on this planet that don't use eyes to see.

Yeah. But we somehow think that aliens from another planet would have eyes. It's something that we have to make it close enough to stuff we can. comprehend that we can then identify it and like understand it to a degree like to think that aliens would get down here and still be able to survive unless it was a crash on oxygen when oxygen could be something that's lethal to them potentially exactly just anything the portrayal that we see of aliens like that the ones that uh mexico just showed us yeah those things like and i'm sorry but that's not how you do an alien announcement where you're on the stage and you have a

little box that you then set up at an angle and you're like, see? Aliens. So much of that shit that we think of as aliens could be so wrong. They could be in any shape. They could be amorphous. They could not have bones. It could be, dude, I was thinking about this the other day. We're at a point right now in our development where we assume we make the assumption with

our belief that we're the most advanced species in the universe or galaxy or whatever. And if you just look at us from, let's just say pre-World War, two and the advancement of computers, airplanes, spacecraft, all that kind of stuff. So let's just be conservative and say 80 years. So in 80 years, we've advanced as much as we can. We've gone to the moon. Stop doing that. We've been sending probes to other planets.

All that crazy shit. If you get, and here's kind of my point where I like to separate this kind of stuff and like the alien culture stuff that like we believe in or that's happened and been proper. for the last like 40 or 50 years with the stuff maybe that's come out the last 10 to 15 years and kind of going back and we'll talk about lazar here in a second but kind of touching on like the uh commander david frayver thing and the other videos that have come out so the main ones that i'm kind of referring to there's one that's the nimitz u.ss nimmets incident with commander david favor just kind of in a short summary they're stationed off doing training exercises kind of off san diego

between San Diego and Mexico, I think like 80 miles off the coast. And they're going out to do a training mission. He's riding in like a F-Cit or an F-18 Super Hornet, so he's got a weapon specialist behind him. So it's two people in the cockpit pilot and weapon specialist. Didn't they leave from Coronado? No, no, they were off the Nimitz. They may have left the ship may have left from Coronado,

but they had like, they were doing it training as like a whole fleet. So they had, can I remember the name of the radar ship that was with them, but basically aircraft carrier always, travels with a large contingency of other support ships, and they form a defensive barrier around it to protect the aircraft carrier. So you have all these radar ships, destroyers, things like that. So they have ships that have like the most advanced radar on them that are running these scans. And during a training exercise, the commander David Fravor and his co-pilot and then their two weapons specialists are taking off. And they're going to go meet two other planes to do like an

intercept training exercise. So after they take off, they're on route. to their, they call it a cap point. It's like the point they converge on or meet up on to start their like training exercise. They get a call from the like radar ship. And it's like, hey, we're going to actually nix your training mission. We have citing that these things we've been seeing over the past like two or three weeks. We've seen sometimes as many of them. We're only catching them on radar.

We see these radar contacts come in. We're able to detect them starting at 80,000 feet, which is higher than it's so high that at 80,000, I think you can see the curvature of the earth. So technically you're considered to be in space. And they're dropping down in a second by the time the radar goes around for its next ping down 20,000 feet in the same spot, just dropping straight down. They'll stay there for about three hours, and then they'll just go straight back up to 80,000 and disappear.

So, like, we just actually detected one of these, and we're going to go and route you and your co-pilot to it, or you and your wingman to it. So they end up flying to this point, and as they're approaching, it. They said there's a radar window. Like when you're looking at a radar screen, how you see the blip show up, that blip actually takes in an area of like, I want to say like they said maybe like 20 square miles. So anything that goes inside that radar envelope then becomes part of that blob. So they're unable to differentiate different contacts. They said they get within that. And as they're looking around, they're like, you're in the radar window now. You're going to have to establish like for visual

contact. We can't tell you where in relation to you it is. So as they're flying through this, they look down. And from a few miles away, they said it's a perfectly clear day. There's no white caps on the water. It's a smooth ocean. They're cruising at like, I think, 20,000 feet or maybe a little bit higher. And they can see down, you know, hovering over the water is this like tic-tac shape, white tic-tac shape craft. And they said that it's moving kind of erratically back and forth, like left, right, up, down, but just hovering. And at first, they're like, well, maybe it's a helicopter, you know, usually they don't make it out this far, but, you know, whatever. And there's no prop wash. You know, if you've seen a movie's helicopters over the water

will kick up spray and dust. And, you know, you can see that from a distance, especially if you're like a naval aviator. You're used to seeing this kind of stuff. So the guy's like, just based on my experience, he'd been in the, this guy is a credible. Like he was the commander of this group called like the Black Aces. So he's like, uh, he's like, it wasn't a helicopter. I know what those look like. I could tell from the distance I was at. It's about 40 feet long. So about the same length as his fighter to his F-18. And as they're flying over this, they're looking down and like everyone has acknowledged at this point that they see this thing. So four people at this point. And he's like, okay, I'm going to go ahead and kind of go down and take a closer look. And as they,

he turns to fly down, he has his other wing man kind of stay circling at the height that they were originally at. And as he goes down, he's getting, he said he drops down about 2,000 feet. and the thing turns to where it's facing a different direction and then in the opposite direction it starts to mirror, or in the same direction it starts to mirror his ascent at the same speed. So as he's circling and spiraling going down, it's coming up at the same trajectory going to the opposite direction. And they're just circling.

And so he says they get back around to where he's at like an 8 o'clock position. It's at like a 2 o'clock position, so they're right around from each other. And he's like, well, I can't keep playing this game of going around in a circle. so he just kind of edges into the circle to take a straight shot to try to kind of intercept it to see it closer to it. And as he does that, while they're trying to actually scan this thing, they said that they were receiving an active radar jamming from it.

So they couldn't pick it up on their radar. And normally radar jamming that they're able to detect is technically an act of war. And it requires advanced technology to do that. So his co-pilot is they're not armed at this point. There was a training exercise. So there's this thing. Basically, the co-pilot has, he doesn't have a joystick to fly the plane, but the, oh, not the copilot, the weapon specialist. He has joysticks that are able to control all of, like, the sensor arrays on the plane for, like, targeting of things.

So he's aiming this targeting system at it and picking it up on, like, infrared, and then, like, black and white. You guys can pull up the video, just put in YouTube, USS Nimitz incident, and you can watch this whole video. It makes me very uncomfortable. And as he's cycling through the different views, like infrared and black and white and all that kind of stuff, they're unable to detect any type of like temperature variants coming off this. They can tell that it's warmer than the surrounding area and it's showing up, but they can't see any exhaust or any wings, propulsion, anything like that out of this thing. Nothing that would traditionally show up on any type of other aircraft that's in existence.

And as they're kind of, the weapons expert is kind of staying on this thing, they're getting closer to it. The thing literally in a blink of an eye just vanishes. So they report in. They're talking to, you know, the wingmen, hey, did you see that? They're saying, yeah, we saw that. The weapon specialist is like, I was looking at it for a while, and then it just vanished. And they're reporting into the radar carrier or radar ship or whatever it is.

And it's like, yeah, it disappeared, but it's just reappeared 60 miles away from you guys at your original cap point that you're going to be meeting up at. and he's like how he's like it just appeared so he says within the course of 30 or 40 seconds this thing went from their position and traveled 60 miles to their original position that they were going to be at before the training exercise got canceled so they end up flying back to the aircraft carrier and then another set of planes was taking off and the weapon specialist for that pilot is like we're going to find this thing I'm going to capture some some video on it too and this is also where you see, I believe the video may be a combination of both of the pilot planes that caught this, but this is where you actually see more additional footage of this thing,

just simply flying through the air with no propulsion, no nothing, and then vanishes again. So, I mean, you have situations like this where, you know, they get back to the carrier, they're looking at all this stuff, no one can explain what this thing is. They're, you know, this isn't a men in black scenario where, like, guys in suit, up on the ship or anything like that. But yeah, this information is sent up. And I think it was sent to, I don't know if ATIP, the advanced aerial threat, like in reconnaissance program, was active at that point.

But it sent up the, you know, up the chain. And there hasn't been an explanation on what it could be. But based on the testimony of these pilots who are seasoned Navy pilots have had experience piloting more aircraft than I can even name, being able to say there's nothing that can move that fast. There's nothing that can move in a hovering position and that accelerate and do all that kind of stuff. Plus, doesn't have any visible propulsion or wings or anything like that, but is able to move at such speeds that, you know, there have been kind of also reports looking into it that looking at it from a speed perspective, you also have to think of it from a biological

limitation that if something is in there flying that, you can only move so quickly without essentially just crushing something that's in there if it's biological. And that was going to kind of lead me into what I was saying about advancement and everything. The big thing right now is AI, right? Yeah. So if we're developing AI at this point in our, you know, time frame of humanity, what's to say that like if there happened to have been another planet outside of our galaxy, solar system, or even within our galaxy that we can't recognize, you know, there's been,

with all like the Kepler telescope and other telescopes that we've sent up, we've been able to get much more in-depth pictures of like the stars and everything, seeing how many planets. They've been trying to analyze what are called, have you ever heard the term Goldilocks planets, Goldilocks worlds? No. So they're basically planets that fit the same description. Oh, that have like livable atmospheres? Correct. They're far enough away from their sun. It's the right type of sun.

It's in the habitable zone. Is it habitable? Habitable zone. of that star they've analyzed just out of the confirmed planets that they've been able and this was I think as of like

2020 and of the 1,780 confirmed planets that they've been able to identify 16 of those are within the habitable zone of their stars and that's just the planets that with our limited technology

that we've been able to confirm and identify as planets that's just from us looking up to the sky from our fixed point right now. So if you have a civilization that, let's say it's a fun game to kind of just like speculate and everything, but if you had a civilization that developed along the course or a different course than we did, like let's say that they didn't initially, their first fuels weren't fossil fuels,

like coal, oil, that kind of stuff. If they were able to, when they developed an energy source, it was straight to like hydrogen power, water and everything. if they were able to develop that and use that essentially as their power sources and they developed 100, 200, a thousand years before us, got to the point we're at now, but a thousand years previous, they could already be in a situation where they're no longer a biological species. It could be AI. It could be some type of, and that would essentially remove the need to even have any type of biological entity within these ships.

They could just simply be AI controlled, like scouts or drones that we were talking about. Yeah, but what would, I guess, resources would be the only thing. Yeah, I mean, think of it, think of it just in the, if, just make the simple comparison between us as a species if we had those abilities, even without those abilities, when we first developed the ability to sail across the ocean, it was to widen our influence, and it was to gain new lands and new resources and everything. What's to say that if a species got to the point where space travel was more readily accessible and more prioritized, that they weren't already going out to different planets within their solar system or whatnot

and mining those planets and developing, finding new minerals, new resources, new power sources to power these ships, even being a couple hundred years more advanced than us, where do you think we're going to be if we don't fucking blow each other up? I don't think there will be a couple hundred years. Yeah, what I'm saying, though, is you also have to look at it as little, like, split points off of, like, where we developed. Like, imagine that there wasn't, what have most of our wars been about over the course of the entire existence of humanity? Land, power. Religion? Religion, yeah.

So imagine that a planet has one religion or no religion. Everyone is on the same page. There's no reason to fight. Or it comes to the point where they're getting ready to fight, and they're like, okay, hold on. What are we fighting over here? And they're like, we'll land. We need more land. Like, we have a finite amount of land here, and we don't want to go anywhere.

We just don't want to give you shit, but why don't we pool all our resources and we find land that's outside of our own planet? If you want to spread out, we want to spread out too. Let's all pool our resources and let's, you know, imagine if we didn't invest the $750 billion into the Department of Defense, just our country alone. And instead of the $21 billion that's invested into NASA yearly, I think those were like $2,020 figure. imagine we switched that around because we were in a position we talked about it with Everest you know when like the people

that were around Everest in the Himalayas those people that were local there they had no reason to climb Everest because it was all about survival they had other shit to worry about imagine a society got to the point where it didn't have to worry about fighting and shit like that and its priority

was like why don't we try to do this instead so instead of having to spend 750 on defense you're able to take all of those resources, plus the resources of all these people acting under a common interest, and say, let's go ahead and invest this into like space exploration and space travel. Imagine what we could develop if for the last 10 or 15 or 20 years, we would have poured all that funding into creating essentially spacecraft

that were able to get to other planets, colonies on Mars, things like that. And then on Mars, once we got people there, we developed a new resource or a new mineral, that then furthered and advanced more travel. Then we're out at the end of our soul. solar system. We find something else new. And we just keep branching out and branching out like that. It doesn't take much deviation from just the general course of a civilization to say, well, I guess it wouldn't be crazy to think that a civilization could have developed in a different path.

And that path led them instead of fucking fighting each other all the time or worrying about all of our own shit or just like hoarding all of our own resources. We were just like, hey, does everyone just want to work together and we could have like infinite resources? Because all this shit is out here for us to take. I think the only thought that would really throw that out of alignment would be the one resource that you really

don't have any sort of like say over and that's just time. Like, AI. But there's still like... What if you become a timeless, a timeless society where you're no longer

because time, we're only limited by time due to our biology. Yeah, but the travel and the distance and everything in development of that. Correct. Plus, I don't want to be AI, so I don't think that would be great. I don't know if it's going to be a choice at a certain point, buddy. I don't know if we're going to have a choice of the holy eye shit. I'm just saying that like...

I'm going to be far dead before that's a choice. No, no, 100%. But what I'm saying is that think of like a civilization, even a thousand years more advanced than ours. What do you always see like? Think of the Jetsons. That was supposed to be like our civilization at a certain point. know we're living in fucking like little sky cities and driving little cloud cars around.

But all it would take was just for a little bit of a deviation in someone saying, you know, why are we burning this oil? Let's try to work on this like hydrogen power shit. Our planet's completely covered in water. We're never going to have to worry about fuel again. How many wars have been started over fucking, look at the fucking Middle East, man. It's fucking wars over oil all the time. I do think that we're negating the evolutionary leaps that we had to make to get to where we were.

We did, and what I'm saying is maybe that's why what you're saying is like we always assume aliens are going to have to have to have some type of identifiable characteristics that we share for us to be able to understand them. You know, part of me is like, okay, so we at some point, you know, there was an offshoot of essentially primates. It offshot with a genetic anomaly. Then that was the dominant species. And then you get cromagnin man. And then what was the one that? Bigfoot. Bigfoot, but what was, it was cromagnon man and it was Homo sapiens.

And Cromagin and Homo sapiens were the genetic anomaly and then they branched out. What if it was like a planet where it was a sea, a seaborne creature that developed like that? And it's, you know, it's something that breeze water or it's from a planet covered in water or something like that. That's not to say that that couldn't have been. Huh? Is this the blue guys? Is this James Cameron? No.

No, no, I'm not saying that. No, because they didn't have space. I'm not saying that. Okay. And they weren't in ocean people. They were like living in the trees and shit. Okay. I haven't seen the second one, but I don't think they live under water.

I think they just live near the water. All I'm saying is that if throughout, you know, you look up at the stars on a clear night. If you're in a place that doesn't have white pollution, it would blow your fucking mind to see what you can see just with the naked eye. But if you look up there and you have the, I'm not saying that we've captured an alien, we've seen, little gray men, anything like that. What I'm saying, though, is based off of, my belief is based off of, like, the known pattern of humanity.

It's taking shit, conquering shit, and I'm telling you right now, if we had the ability to do interstellar travel or travel to other planets, we would do it, and we would be first looking to see, like, what's on this planet, what's going on,

is there shit here that we want, what are the creatures on this planet? they could technically be doing the same thing that we ourselves would be doing. Yeah, I think eventually that would come to be. I think that we would probably spend time figuring out how to make sure that our planet would be existable for a future that we could predetermine. So, okay, so we would look home before we looked away. So space travel is a widely, you know, believed scientific endeavor. everyone knows that we went to the moon

Not everybody Okay there's a space station We've sent space ships up space shuttles We have been to space All you have to do is just Keep taking that a step further We've been to space Now we're going to be a little bit further

Now we're going to be a little bit further We know that the technology is there even for us And that part of it is sound We just haven't taken it up to the next level And being like well do we want to go further And eventually we are going to go further and is it, I know that for us, because it's hard to imagine advancement that quickly, but if we're able to say 300 years, we're dead and gone and everything,

but would you really be so surprised if someone came back in a time machine, it was a human, and they said, hey, yeah, we actually developed space travel, and we were actually the aliens for once. We actually went down and check it out. Like, we went down to this other planet in our spaceships, and we were just trying to look around, and, like, they saw us, and we, like, got the fuck out of there. And then you look at it, and you're thinking, oh, shit. shit. Like, so to that civilization, they are in the same position we were back in fucking

2003 of seeing these things that they probably had no fucking clue what they were. And to them, we were just this unidentified fucking object. Yeah. I do think that the AI thing would be tough too, because if it was, we better hope that aliens aren't AI because they could just up and delete us in the blink of an eye. That's sort of... That's why it's not, that's why it's not, coming, worth coming out with the information. Yeah, well, unless, like, they survive on CO2 emissions or, like, pollution, there's really no need for us. And if it was AI, like, the thought that we were talking about earlier, of, like, hoping

that the aliens are cool with us and don't want to get rid of us, that's based on emotion. AI doesn't have any emotion. That's what I'm saying. If we're an issue, but we're a planet of resources, they'll just kill us all. That's what I'm saying. If information like that is known that these things aren't biological or anything, by saying that how many people are going to fucking up and quit their jobs tomorrow if they knew that at any moment like an alien fucking robot or AI could come down and just wipe us out.

That's going to cause the fucking mental collapse of so many fucking people. That's too much of a gamble to just be like, you know what? Release all the fucking information. Society will be fine. I'm sure it'll work itself out. Sure, most of society would be fine. But you're going to have fucking cults and offshoots and all this crazy-ass. shit going on trying to get in contact with the fucking overlords and it's just going to create

even more fucking it's it's a bat shit crazy enough world as it is right now just worrying about this fucking species killing each other imagine if we had to worry about another fucking species or fucking technology or some shit it could either have the you know result of all of us being like we should probably work together in case this thing ends up coming turning bad on us or people are just going to be like, well, we need to fucking conquer this country so we have their resources so we can fight the aliens. We already live with that to a certain extent. With ourselves, that's what I'm saying. Well, but not even with ourselves because isn't there like that super volcano that's in Yellowstone?

That's what I'm saying. There's so much other shit going on that maybe just the thought of throwing in this one other existential fucking threat that could exist. Give it to me, buddy. Really? I can file that one away and not worry about it ever again. So what's your position on like the, the frayver thing or the other videos, if you guys are interested, there's one called the go fast video and then one called the gimbal video. Each of them show kind of different actual crafts, but all of them recorded by like legitimate fucking naval pilots in their jets. I mean, I believe that those videos are real and I believe that those are things that we can't explain.

But at the same time, whether we can explain them or not, it's not going to affect me having to get up to go to work next day. And that's because you have a mindset of being like, even my rational thought of thinking and acknowledging that these things could be essentially extraterrestrial in origin, they're either going to come down and I'm going to be able to do nothing about it or I can do nothing about it and just have that knowledge in my head that, sure. Enjoy my remaining time before it does happen. Exactly. I can be in awe and wonderment of these things, but at the same time, I know that I'm helpless in this scenario. Well, like when you were talking about the guy's story, it makes me very uncomfortable to come to that realization. But five minutes after you got done saying that, I've completely wiped that away. Like that worry that I feel when I hear about shit like that that I can't explain, it's already gone because I can't explain it. Yeah.

So it's not, you know, not anything that I would be worried about. I was in love with aliens for a number of years. and then once you finally get to the point of like there's just no other credible information. Do you think part of that is? Stuff to care. I think part of that also might be because there is something when you're younger. The thought of aliens is just very cool. Oh, this was like three years ago.

Okay. I wasn't a child. I was in my 20s. You were younger technically. But I think part of it too is when you have a mindset of looking at it from a possibility of saying like, you know, these could be, you know, benevolent beings or something like that they could want to help us. But then you get so used to just being around people and realizing what human nature is and that most people are fucking like shitty. Yeah, might not be

worse. Then your mind goes to like, well, fuck, what's the likelihood that these fucking aliens that can actually get to our planet are actually going to be like in the nice group? And not going to be just like shitty just like the majority of people are. So then you're just kind of like, well, fuck. Yeah, maybe they're here. Maybe they already occupy bodies. Hopefully it's just the nice people that are the aliens. But like, and that's kind of where my belief in it comes in.

It's not necessarily like, you know, we were talking about earlier, like the Bob Lazar thing. This is a guy I was hot on. This was a guy that had me drink an alien. I was full send on Bob Lazar. I thought that this guy was holding McKee. to the kingdom. And much like earlier in my life, the Mormon religion sort of had me in the same stranglehold. That was,

I was very young. You're in the throes. Yeah, yeah. Well, so. They had to dip me twice. That was how much I was fighting that. So Bob Lazar had me hook, line and sinker. So basically with the thing about Bob Lazar is, he is this guy, and I'm just going to kind of run through this. If you guys want more information on this dude, there's a documentary called like Bob Lazar, Area 51 and Flying Saucers. And take it with a hefty grain of salt. Yes. So, this guy was basically, in his words, he was a graduate of like MIT, I guess. He had a master's in physics from MIT.

These are very important. We can't gloss over this. You're going to just fill in the gaps then here. A master's in physics from MIT. He then goes to work for, I think. Oh, no, no, no, no. Because then he gets a master's in electronics from Caltech. And he taught there for a little bit, right?

He said that, yes. Okay. So he then gets an offer to come work at the, Jet Propulsion Laboratories, I think, JPL. And there are records of him working at JPL. There are no records of him at Caltech or at MIT. Nor are there any professors or students that would have gone to the schools at that time that remember him. Yeah, there isn't anything like that.

They also went back to his high school and checked his records and his transcripts and showed that his brigades would not be good enough to get into even a state school, let alone Caltech or MIT. he just didn't, you know, he wasn't smart when it came to your standard studies. Yeah, I mean, high school physics is going to throw you off. Maybe there wasn't even high school physics. I don't know if you're in a, listen, coming from a small town, let me tell you right now, physics was not on the curriculum.

Okay. It got up to like pre-calculus and calculus was about as far as we went. But anyway, so he works at JPL for a while. He then gets approached to work at this place called Area S4. And he was, was it in like 1980s? this guy named Dennis was the one that made him the offer, right? Dennis was the pseudonym that he used to go public with his information.

Oh, that's right. Oh, that's right. When he first came out in the 80s. Yep. That's right. Dennis was what he came out. Imagine like when you see someone like with their face blocked out. And their voices like this. Yeah, that was him, Dennis. 1989. There you go. So Area S4 was supposed to be like an extension of Area 51. I think he was supposed to be like eight and a half miles away from it.

and it was basically like a secret black site and he was taken out there he said he flew on the Janet Express right and then he would have been like bust over to S4 and he was brought in and there were basically multiple scientists in varying fields metallurgy propulsion systems which he was a part of

I want to say like structural engineering a whole bunch of shit any field that you can think of the would be related to like flight or power systems and was put essentially on the team for a propulsion system. And the way he describes this is the propulsion system that he was able to work on review. It was him and like another guy. It was like half of a bass.

It looked like a metal half sphere about the size of a basketball. And it didn't give off any power rings or anything, but you went to go touch it or do anything, and you could never actually touch the surface of it. it emitted like some type of like force field or something. Because it was an antimatter reactor. Because it was an antimatter reactor. Of course it was.

Because you know you're not allowed to touch an anti-matter reactor. Because that's a thing that we all know about. It would definitely be able to cross-reference and make sure that this guy is telling a very accurate story. Well, initially he came out with some information that it was a periodic element called like Element 115, which no one knew about at the time. but then afterward it came out that what was it called Muscovium.

They were able to synthesize what he was talking about. In 2003, but it was extremely fast decaying and radioactive. It's a radioactive. It does have energy to it, but it was decaying within milliseconds. So there was no feasible way to use that. I'll play devil's advocate here just because I think it's fun to kind of go back and forth on this stuff. You mean my side? No. And why does the devil need an advocate?

I don't know. He's pretty good on his own. So let's just imagine that this element 115 that he brought up, and then they were able to synthesize it. Playing devil's advocate, what if the discovery of this element while they were researching this allowed them to then try to synthesize it, but the reason that it wasn't a viable option to be able to use for power is because in synthesizing it, you're not creating it as it naturally occurs as part of how this reactor was. and that it's, you know, it's like when I'm trying to think of like a naturally occurring mineral that you then try to create a knockoff of, but it's inferior to that. It could be possible that in trying to synthesize it in an artificial way, it wasn't synthesized to the correct formula that the naturally occurring element was, which is why it doesn't work. But we could have thrown it into the antimatter reactor that was reverse engineered, and we would all be. flying cars. Didn't he say one of them blew up when they tried to like split it open or something? The last guy had like died. Yeah. Well, of course. Because they tried to cut into it. That would explain why you

don't have that element. You're working on it right now. But some of the other facts are my God, not facts. Some of the other information that came out on this was that the ship supposedly came from a small from small gray aliens. And when he said he was able to at one point get a look inside the ship, it looked like the ship could like house people that were like three foot tall or something like that like it was a miniature version the ship looked like it was not organic but like everything was seamless together like no welds or anything it was almost like it had been carved from something but was made of like a metallic substance and this was one of nine flying saucers yes that we had collected so they came from the zeta reticulis system not sure how that was determined um oh you don't know how that was determined. I forgot. So Bob Lazar was taken into the underground of Area 51 that is much legend that it is like an underground city below. Did he see, oh, was this where he like passed the door and the guys were like sitting there talking to the alien? He was sitting in the seat facing the door with the window. Yes. Yes. So we have to use blackout windows to get to anywhere on Area 51. But all these secret chambers for alien

interrogations and conversation just happened to have these windows that are. Correct. Yeah. Correct. Yeah, he also said that down below he was able to identify... It was alive because it was talking. Yeah, well, that was the one that he identified as alive. He was also able to identify vats of pink substances that were actually holding these other dead alien specimens. Suspended in viscous goo. Yeah, yep, yeah. So just like Austin Powers, there was just a bunch of these guys down there that were suspended in goo.

he's like do I keep have to answer in question in the room with my buddies can you at least move me to another fucking room so I'm just seeing my buddies floating dead bodies there yeah they must have been peaceful because these super smart aliens didn't have a way to defend themselves

as soon as they got down here so they were just hanging out having a sig telling their story very Paul ask yes very much so great movie by the way yes super good movie Simon Pegg and what's his buddy's name oh uh Nick.

Nick. I can't remember. Good Nick. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent movie. Paul is incredible. Seth Rogen did great in it.

But everything that he said just always seemed like it really made a lot of sense until I started looking into sort of the way the materials came out. He's a two-time felon. He actually owns a chemical company and was shipping volatile compounds illegally. So his company's been sued multiple times, been charged with felonies for distribution of hazardous chemicals, different things like that. You could say that's under the guise of a scientist who was trying to recreate the things that he saw at Area 51. Or you could say that he's just kind of an asshole. I'm going to lead towards kind of the asshole. I was playing devil's out of kit.

I don't necessarily believe. Here's the one thing that kind of, it's like picking out the crumbs of truth from the pile of shit. I'm the pile of shit. And I'm talking like Ian Malcolm, that's one big pile of shit, size pile of shit. The one thing that,

you know, it's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but when he's talking about how he's describing... You're a tough time to fendling him. Okay, I know, I know. Listen, it's a weak defense.

I'm just doing this for the same conversation. But the way that he was describing how the craft flew was very unorthodox from the traditional way that you would think someone that was full of shit would describe it. So,

he described it as like a saucer type craft. He said when it would lift up, the craft would then rotate and it would almost be like it was like standing on its end to where like the bottom of it was facing in the direction in which it would travel and then it would fly that direction. The only reason I bring that up is because in one of the videos I want to say it might be the gimbal video is you see the craft flying and then before the craft actually like picks up speed and takes off out of sight is it rotates to where the bottom of it is then facing the direction it's going and then it accelerates faster than the camera can get it and disappears out of sight.

That's the only reason I'm looking at this and saying, like, that's a very specific way and a very odd way that you can imagine something like that flying, and then you see this video evidence taken by these naval aviators that shows exactly that. Yeah, I mean, I think the Jetsons

kind of had the same similar proportion system. No, they didn't George got in it. It closed the window down, and it flew the exact same way the blue. Okay, all right. But here's the other thing too. Humans are humans. And so regardless if this guy ever got a sight of anything like this,

what ended up happening is he ends up like taking his friends out to the hilltop overlooking S4 Area 51 during like the scheduled test flights of these alien craft. And he ends up getting caught like showing his buddies that these things are flying. He ends up getting kicked out and everything. So part of it is like, well, is this guy just trying to like make shit up about this because he's bitter. that he got fired or anything, or is, you know, at a certain point, you do become kind of addicted

to, like, attention and possibly the fame. So when this stuff come out, he got this attention, and then that attention started dying off, you know, did he keep propagating this information or kind of bumping it up or adding additional details to it to kind of stay in the spotlight?

It's hard, that's why it's hard to, it's easy to look at a video and say, I don't know what that is, but because I'm seeing it, because I trust the people that took it, have some level of trust in the people that took it. I can wrap my mind around that, let my mind kind of wander. But if it's strictly a person that's coming out

and one person without like the physical evidence, that's when it's much harder to believe something. Yeah, that and then I think there's a level of credibility that you can put to the videos because they are coming from credible people, whereas we really don't know where Bob Lazar came from. Yeah, exactly.

He's a man that just sort of rode into town and we've got to believe it. I also really think, too, because it comes up in so many of these things, is a lot of these stories, like there's stuff that comes from the Patterson Air Force Base where there was a secretary that was brought in to take notes on an alien autopsy, and then she was sworn to secrecy. Like why? Well, and that's the thing. And then there's other things like the video that they put out.

You need a stenographer in there during the Aalotopsy. But at the same time, you're just bringing people in without this top secret clearance that haven't been vetted to do this kind of shit. Like, that's just not how it all works. Exactly. Like, it's not just, hey, man, we're doing this autopsy in here. Do you know how to run a camera? Yeah, can you come in and help me with that?

Like, there has to be a certain level of understanding that people have before these things are given to them. Like, people with top clearance can press the red button. Yeah. You don't need, like, Bob that runs the AV system. You're like, hey, Bob, we're going to need you to step in here and press this red button while we dissect this Martian. Yeah, just the stories that come from people sound like they're credible. I mean, a secretary at Patterson Air Force Base sounds fairly credible. But then when you really think about the clearance of something like aliens would need, she probably ain't cleared for that.

No. And it's situations like that that really make me question it. That's the whole point, is there's enough stuff and enough bullshit that it. it makes the water so fucking murky that even if there were true factual things down there, you're like, I can't, it's hard to see them through all this bullshit. Yeah, it's, it's so tough to grasp at anything because there's always questions behind anything else. And one of the probably worst things that I found out just going through Area 51, and it is just, it's such a bummer.

But in 1994, there was an environmental lawsuit that was brought against Groom Lake and brought against the government. There were five civilian contractors and two widows that brought this case. The widows were of Walter Kaza and Robert Frost. Isn't there an author named Robert Frost? Something Frost. Okay. Well, yeah, this wasn't him. But these contractors and the two dead men had had biopsies taken of their bodies.

And then obviously they went through and did autopsies on the dead ones. but they found that they had super high concentrations of something called dioxin, dibenzofron, and a third one that is really long. Trichloria hygeline. Yeah, that sounds good. But it caused a ton of skin and respiratory and liver damage. And the only thing that they could think of was it had to have been during testing out there. Yeah, they were saying that I think they were saying that it was as a result like you touched on it earlier.

They were taking all this material. All of this hazardous shit that they used in the production of aircraft and fucking stealth like technology. And they were just burning the shit of it. Well, people have to be out there stirring that shit and turning it over in these burn pits. And these guys basically were breathing in this shit and died because of it. They said that the security was so tight around there that they wouldn't provide them like respirators. but they also wouldn't let them bring respirators onto the base. Yeah, and then when it ended up like to disclose the information and stuff like that,

they wouldn't even disclose like what it was. They were like, well, what caused this? We're trying to go ahead and track back. What caused the levels of dioxin and the two other things? They're like, we can't disclose that. They couldn't even tell them what the chemicals and materials were that caused this type of shit because it was all fucking top secret. So that's why this was an EPA lawsuit.

or environmental lawsuit. This sent the EPA to Area 51 to study like their waste removal, how they treated the land, just anything that they could get for the protection of the environment and found that the EPA hadn't been enforcing the mandated like walkthroughs that they would have to do every year. Of course not. So the EPA gets this whole big stack of findings

and before it gets turned over to the press, or before it gets turned over to the judge, the government steps in and invokes something called the State Secrets Privilege Act, meaning that... Sounds made up on the spot. Probably pretty close, yeah. The ink might have still been wet on the paper

that they turned in. But it basically shielded anything from the EPA report from being disclosed for fear of safety in national security. So since it wasn't able to be put into the court record, the suit was dismissed because of the lack of evidence. Yeah, it's fucking horseshit.

And now, because of this, every single year, Clinton was the first one to sign this, every year since the president has to go through on a basis of just repeating it every single time in perpetuity to sign the act every single year to keep that information secret. So this is something where they can't even just like mask covered up. They have to do this step every single year of their presidency to be able to do it. And that's since Clinton.

So that's, what, almost 30 years that we've gone through this? Yeah. So, Area 51, no aliens, but a lot of shady shit. Yeah. And kind of just to wrap up

what you were talking about earlier about it just being like an American-centric thing. There have been some things that have happened over in different countries. This one, it's just kind of a cool place. It's in Davenport, Australia. It's called Wycliffe Well. And it's a little town,

that is like out in the middle of the desert and it's kind of like just a stop and a water in a hole. Outback. Uh-huh. And they've had a ton of alien and UFO sightings around there and they just kind of attribute it to the bar and people leaving the bar that's in that town. Those fosters cans are big.

Yeah, just sort of fun stuff to where like they use it as tourism. Everything within that small town. The last place aliens want to land is around those crazy motherfuckers. I love. Australia I want to go. I love those people, but I'm telling you right now, last place those alien, get over here, you little fuckers, you little cunts. Could you imagine the aliens

rolling out of the ship and there's just a kangaroo that walks up and they're sitting there tilting their heads studying it? That shit just raises up on its tail and kicks that fucker like 25 feet back. Kicks him right back into the ship. He's like pack it up, we're fucking out of here. We're good. You must be the most dominant species on this fucking planet. We want no part of it. We don't want to mess with you guys. There was a one, this one sort of feels a little bit Area 51-ish. It happened in Suffolk, England, in the United Kingdom. It was called the Rendell-Schlam Forest Incident. And there's a base over there that they used during World War I and then in World War II that was top secret. And it

was used to develop the radar that... Okay, like the doubting system and everything. Yeah. It was basically like that development site and there's this incident happened oh when was it December 26th 1980 they were patrolling the forest that was on the outside of it and they saw

floating lights enter into the forest so they left the base and there was actually it was a U.S. pilot I believe that had spotted it that was over there he'd spotted something earlier in the air in the forest so they go to investigate they follow this thing around the forest for a couple hours and then as soon as they get up on it and get close to it

the light glows to a blinding hall or glows to a blindness and then fires up into the air and leaves so they go back for another study they're searching the forest I believe it's the next night they see the lights again and it basically takes off in the same way it was described by I think it was the British government as there was a light

house that was close. And so they thought that it was the beam catching some sort of like mist or something in the air. Swamp gas. Yeah. It's the lighthouse for fracking off the swamp gas and a weather balloon through Saturn and yeah. But I think

bar none, America is probably the number one UFO site. Yeah, it's. Yeah, there's been all kinds of theories that like the reason that more sightings have been like more recent or more documented as far as being more recent is like during the testing and development of like the nuclear weapons that like detonating a nuclear weapon creates a signature that is able to actually be like sent like it's such a huge blast yeah that the shockwaves can actually permeate or get through the atmosphere and go off

into space like the EMP and everything and that somehow that that's like detectable and that's why we're getting more of like this surveillance on us from whatever the fuck this is or whoever the fuck they are but just because they're like oh it looks like like they've acquired nuclear power now. Let's see what they're going to do with it. Like, oh my God, are they building like, you know, like clean energy? And are they building like spacecraft to explore? And they're like, no, they're fucking killing each other with it.

Like, let's fucking stay posted on what they do with it. Maybe we'd check back in five years see if they've actually figured out anything else. So if you're listening to this and you have had actually any close encounters of the third, fourth, fifth. I don't care how many kinds. Yeah. drop us a comment. Let us know your story. We'd love to fucking hear it. Yeah, I'm not, I mean... The truth is out there.

Maybe it happened. If you were probed, push those to the top of the list. I'd like to hear that. Do asteris, asterisk, probe in all caps. Like, make sure that stands out to us. Those will be read first. The infatuation with aliens and butts is incredible. I'm not quite sure. You know what? Whoever introduced that, that had to have been like, if the government introduced that, can you imagine that? How do we really like take this thing with the top and they're like, what if we had the aliens like super interested in our assholes?

And they're like, that doesn't make any sense. That's fucking ridiculous. Just like, genius. Fucking print it and get it out. We're going to need to find some guy who's willing to claim that he had stuff shoved up inside him by a bunch of little green men. Yeah, that's perfect.

All right, guys. Well, thanks for joining us again for another week of this shit and we'll catch you on the next one. Peace. All right, ladies and gentlemen, and thanks for joining us for another episode. If you like what you heard, hit that subscribe and like button. Follow us.

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