Historically High - The Clinton-Lewinsky Scandal

Episode Date: August 26, 2026

This week, we’re diving into the absolute circus of the late '90s: the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal. We trace Bill’s slippery journey from slick Arkansas Governor dodging the Paula Jones lawsuit straight into the Oval Office, where a federal government shutdown, a strategic flash of a whaletail, and an unpaid intern collided to change American politics forever. Add in Linda Tripp armed with illegal cassette tapes, Kenneth Starr treating Whitewater like a personal soap opera, and the wildest semantics battle in legal history over what "is" actually is, and you’ve got a presidential impeachment born entirely out of chaotic horniness. Light up, tune in, and watch the highest office in the land get taken to its knees. Thanks for listening and don’t forget to hit subscribe, leave a 5-star rating and write a review. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join us at Patreon.com/HistoricallyHigh and get enrolled for some fun extra content Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is there something about this episode that invokes a little bit of your childhood? Yeah, it was 13 when this all went down. Looking back, so my research went all over the board on this because everything tied into something that, like, I remembered, was nostalgic. And being 13, that is freshman year, 14, maybe the eighth grade. Mm-hmm. If there are blowjobs in the national spotlight. Do you realize what kind of environment you're going to be around with a bunch of eighth grade boys? I don't really, I hadn't thought about that as far as how the public went,

because obviously for all of the moral crusade that was trying to push pornography off of, or out of children's hands, and then to just have oral sex and blow jobs and breasts and things like that, just said in common, common parlance on the news. And then nationally released as part of like the Star Report and everything. Yeah, it was, it was nuts. It was a coming of age. I was going to say the party of Nancy trying to keep all the kids safe and everything like that.

Unknowingly created months worth of blowjob and cigar jokes and coming on dresses and all that kind of stuff. And if you haven't figured it out or you missed the title of the episode, we are talking about the, what do we want to call it? Monica Gate, Cigar Gate, the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal, just however you want to slice it, this was, for the time that this went on in American politics, this was right after like the OJ stuff, right? Or that it invented the 24-hour news cycle or kind of really kicked it off. And so this was anywhere that you turned. Did you watch the Saturday Night Skits? Yeah. John Goodman is Linda Tripp. The In Living Color skits were also pretty incredible. Who played in the trip? Was it Will's Hessel or was it before that? Oh, this was pre-Will.

This was In Living Color. This was a Mad TV. Okay, so this was the Wayne. Jim Carrey doing a theme song for and all sorts of. Yeah. All sorts of crazy stuff. I just had a thought seeing as if you are a first-time listener, just please understand that those first two minutes of this podcast were pretty hot

pretty quick. Yeah, I mean, but it's what the episode is really going to entail. This isn't traditionally how our episodes sound. Depends on the subject, I guess, yeah. Yeah, this is the episode. This is why this is so fun. Have we ever got an episode where we get to talk about something like this? No, I believe that we were going to use a lot of the words and phrases, but they were used in different contexts in different areas.

This is almost like the medical, this is close to the medical reasons that we're going to be using these words. It's something that I was again nine years old I had a I wouldn't call it a love affair watching Jay Leno as a kid But Jay Leno was always the sneaky thing that you could come on and catch like the first 10 minutes Yeah, after the news Yeah And I have very distinct memories of that big chin just out there making Monica Lewinsky jokes And making jokes like you say about cigars and everything else

and dresses. And I understood, I think, most of it from a very young age, but this was a time in the country where you could just get away with that. And watching that stuff now and knowing kind of the background of some of the players that they made fun of, it's kind of tough to listen to. Oh, yeah. Because you realize, like, again, this is the gift of time giving your perspective about the mindset of somebody when they're going through this.

remember during this time frame Monica Lewis he's like 22 between 22 and 25 years old so her brain is kind of still mush is a kid and what happens to her I think the way I phrased it to you is this is a story of a village of idiots

and Monica while living in that idiot village just happens to be the most innocent and impressionable of the idiots doesn't make her not an idiot it just makes her the victim in the idiot village there's definitely a couple victims in this um i i don't think that we're going to get through this

just i mean the clintons are going to take a beating and i don't really think that it's a secret chris and i i think maybe imbibed some of these episodes with some of our beliefs but this is a really bad look for democrats this was a horrendous time for them and we've talked about the horrendous time for conservatives and McCarthyism and Nixon and Bushes and Iran-Contra. I feel like we shoot it pretty, even during these episodes where things tend to lead toward our side and everything. I do feel like these are situations, especially in there in the past. There are some people who still want to bring this up, and because it has had such an impact on kind of the political landscape today, but fuck, man, this is 98. Yeah. It's. It's,

It's a completely different landscape. When we talk about the events here, it's going to seem like small potatoes by the parlance of, like, certain things that are occurring today. But at the time, this stuff was the way that it'll be framed by certain people as the, like, the worst thing that has ever happened to the government. It'll be blown out of proportion, but at the same time, there is truth to the deceptiveness that occurs during this. and how that might not lose faith in someone's job ability, but from a moral standpoint, you take a beating. And that's just it. The old guard, we're going to be talking about people in this episode

that are still members of Congress today. Lindsey Graham, looking up at us right now, is, was a part of these proceedings. Oh, bald gag Graham. This dude was a part of. of the Clinton scandal. And he just up until very recently is still a part

of government. Yeah. This old guard will never walk away. Bill and Hillary are still showing up at fundraisers and things like that. You're going to sit here and tell me that Lindsay Graham is a stranger to blow jobs. But this is also going to involve a lot of people that I do firmly believe would never try oral sex in their

entire life. Yeah, absolutely. It just goes to show, though, the reason that this can still be brought up is because this old guard, all of these old political dinosaurs are still kind of walking the earth. And there will come a time when the comet does finally come

and we just have younger members of Congress, I hope. I pray that we will have something that's more representative. When you say younger, 40s would be nice at some to... Representative of maybe the age demographic in our country. Somebody that's a little bit more level-headed.

Someone that can program, someone that can download the updates on their fucking laptop. Yeah. Somebody that can figure out how a computer works to access the Epstein files one day. Exactly. Just how it goes. Okay. Wow, seven and a half minutes in already. All right. Remember,

patreon.com slash historically high. Go get the bonus content. We've kind of been on fire. We're going to be introducing a new segment, which has actually got us really excited. We'll tell you more about that later. Got anything? Five star ratings. We are cruising on those. You guys are great

for giving them to us. If you haven't rated us and you have a spare five, we would love to to collect that. Reviews have been awesome. We've hit a lot of streaks. We recently went back to K2, which I believe was like three years after we did Everest. And it's so cool to see that we have these episodes

that are kind of off the beaten path of history that maybe we just kind of threw against the wall is something fun and interesting that we wanted to study. And people love them. Yeah. Because it's just a little bit different from what traditional history is. keep the subscriptions up. We hit 30,000 on Spotify.

Awesome. Thank you so much for getting us there. Let's keep that number up. 50's next. Yep. All right. And without further ado, let's get into, I don't mean, what do we call on this one? Clinton impeachment, probably.

Something like that. Clinton scandals brings up some bad stuff. Yeah, enjoy. Okay. It's going to start a little bit forward, but I did want to go ahead and paint a picture. I want to put you back to January 26, 19th. 1998. You are a 11-year-old Adam at that point? Nine.

Nine. Oh, my God. Are we? Oh, yeah, we are five years difference, are we, aren't we? Is that it? Yeah. I still feel like we're both in our 20s. Yeah, I'm good with that. So we are in the White House Roosevelt room, flanked by Hillary and Vice President Al Gore. Bill's up there addressing the press at the end of a event that was about like after

school program. So you wouldn't think that this would come up about an after school program thing. But as he's getting ready to leave, he leans forward on that. Is it the desk, I think, or was it a podium? I can't remember. I think it was a podium for this one. But he does that Bill Clinton thing where he points his finger directly at the camera, looking at it right down the lens. And he says, now, I have to go back to work on my state of union speech. And I want to say one thing to the American people. I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations. with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie. Not a single time. Never. These allegations are false. And now I need to go back to work for the American people.

Thank you. It's truly incredible how, and I don't know if everybody's like this. Maybe it's just my brain that does this. But whenever I think about anything famous to Bill Clinton has said, it's always, I did not have sex with that woman. I did not have sexual relations with that woman. Got to make sure you get sexual relations in there. It's like this guy was a person.

president for eight years, and it's just the first thing that comes to my mind because it was such a wild lie, but also he just sounds so funny when he says it. Yeah. You just know. Like, that guy just walked up there. That guy had sexual relations with that woman. He just straight-faced lies to the American people. Like it was nothing. Yeah. And I get it. Every president lies. There's been no honest president in the history of this country, but it's just so crazy when we know about the backstory of what all occurred. Yeah. You got so many blowies from that lady.

And somehow you thought that your definition of sexual relations was going to work. Well, I mean, if we break it down blowies per month, it's not that many blowies. But again, per interaction, yeah, there's a lot of that going on. Because net score. Yes, exactly. But like you said, we're going to go ahead and go back because to kind of get down to where the, I guess someone gets the bit in their mouth for the chase is going to be back when Clinton is, is the AG, right?

Yeah, just his political career begins back in the 70s. This is after graduating from Yale, after going over and studying in England, after graduating from Georgetown, he's a very politically adept person. 1974 rolls around. He runs for the U.S. House of Representatives in Arkansas

and ends up losing. His political career state level in Arkansas begins in 197. 1976 as he wins the election for Attorney General, he would hold the AG position for two years. I don't know shit about how Arkansas politics works, but it's odd to know that their governor only serves a term of two years. Maybe they've lengthened it since then?

I would imagine, yeah. Because two years doesn't feel like a whole lot of time to do anything. It doesn't. Two years feels like a state that's ready to pull the trigger if you fuck something up. It feels like a state that's had problems in the past, and they're just like, we can't trust. anyone with more than two years before we have an option to get them fuck out long reigns of the governorship in arkansas apparently aren't the thing that they want so they end up partnering up with

their friends jim and susan mcdougal to buy 230 acres of land along the white river in the ozarks basically to set up like lots and everything for vacation homes and i mean as far as that goes that's something that kind of anybody with money to invest could possibly go in on so not not that an innocuous as far as like a real estate transaction goes. No. As they're in this real estate deal, he ends up becoming governor in 1976. He's the youngest governor in the nation at the age of 32. He's 32 when he's governor?

The first go around is governor. Yeah. So, 1976, 32-year-old Bill Clinton is the governor of Arkansas. He would go on to lose re-election bid in 19. 1980. So maybe it's four years. Maybe that's what it was. Only to win it back in night, but he wins it back in 1982. So I don't know if he served two terms or what, but the numbers seem very, very weird. It's Arkansas. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is a leap year, odd years. I don't know. Maybe they're going on some sort of different calendar in Arkansas.

Clinton would go on to become governor from or be governor from 1983 to 1992 serving four consecutive terms. just in this kind of backdrop on a national scale, you have July 1990 to March 1991 during Bush seniors first and only term, there's a recession going on in the country. There are, I believe, the max unemployment hit like 15%, maybe 13% as a country. It's a pretty big number. So in the early... We haven't talked about a number like that since fucking depression.

Yeah. Yeah, previous. I wonder if the 70s were probably close because we've had some recessions in between there. Yeah, during like gas rationing and stuff. Yeah, like that 70s show era. Yeah, we'll catch that recession episode eventually. But the country's not in the best shape.

And as you were talking about, while he's the AG before he even becomes a governor for the first time, Clinton and Jim McDougal get into business. And McDougal's a pretty shady figure. You were talking about the whitewater development. During that point in time, Hillary was working for this Rose law firm in Arkansas. Once they purchased this 230 acres near that White River that you were talking about, they end up borrowing $203,000 as they purchased that land.

They move it into a four-way trust of the Whitewater Development Corps between Jim, his wife, Bill, and Hillary. They're all four equal partners. as you're talking about the land's supposed to become vacation homes but by 1979 interest rates hit 20%. It just fucking crashes the bucket. Yeah. It makes all of the loans

to buy these properties unaffordable. So the Clintons lose a sizable chunk of money at that point in time. Like 40 to 60,000. Jim McDougal had purchased a local kind of this fledgling bank that he ends up purchasing and renaming Madison Guarantee,

not spelled the way it guarantees, spelled, but again, sorry Arkansas, you're going to take a beating here for a second. That's so it's not a guarantee. Okay. Yeah, I guess if you don't spell a word right, you don't. It's not applicable to the actual meaning of the word itself. It's a savings and loan bank.

Hillary had done a pretty fair amount of legal work for this shady savings and loans that McDougal was using kind of is his own little purse through the 80s. He was using it to like repay back some of the losses or somehow trying to recoup some of the losses from like the

real estate venture going through or falling through. Yeah, he's using some of the savings money in more shady ways than just investing and trying to make. When you were reading about that, like buying a small bank and everything, that again, that just went back to the Depression for me being like, oh, yeah, there were independent banks that people would have influxes of money in. And if those banks failed or something like that, it was because the money was gone. Yeah.

Turns out there was a lot of McDougals back then. there's only one McDougal that's running guarantee now. Well, I guess there's two McDougals. So there's a guarantee fundraiser that raised $50,000 for Clinton's campaign. 12,000 of those were coming directly from cashier's checks from the savings and loan.

Seems a little shady. The money helped pay off campaign debt in 1985. McDougal purchases this, another gigantic land deal this time, the Castle Grande. for $1.75 million. Being more than he can afford, he illegally

had to borrow six, or he can only legally borrow $600,000 from his own savings and loan, which again seems insane that you can borrow from your own bank. It's a wild thing, but 600,000 is the cap. But are you going to put up for the collateral? The bank? Yeah. So there was this guarantee employee named Seth Ward

that ended up funneling the remaining $1.15 million quote unquote investors and intermediaries that were also using guarantee savings and loan bank. Hillary and Castle Grande did a lot of work together. She provided most of the legal services for Castle Grande. By 1989, McDougal had resigned from the Savings and Loans Bank, and Castle Grande ended up financially collapsing later. It had a total debt of about $4 million.

So McDougal got in, funneled off some money, got out, Cassogronde collapses at that point in time. And there was some financial improprieties. The Clintons were ultimately cleared of wrongdoing. They were considered passive investors. Adam is doing quotation. When they go back and they reopen this case and they look at it to head in the Whitewater investigation. The person that said they were cleared

of any wrongdoing was like, we got to make some points here. I cleared them of any wrongdoing. I didn't say that there could have been improprieties that I just didn't investigate. Yes. If you want to go down there. Well, not only that,

but Madison, the savings and loaned that McDougal loaned, eventually crashes in the late 80s, the savings and loan crisis. And it cost the taxpayers about $60 million when that happens. So there's, there's fuckery galore here.

And that's just the financial side of this. You have May 8, 1991, a woman named Paula Jones that's working as a state employee during the Governor's Quality Conference that was held at the Excelsior Hotel in Little Rock, the Grand Celsior Hotel in Little Rock, Arkansas. Jones was a government employee, and I didn't look to see what it was, but she said that she was earning a pretty good wage

at minimum wage, at federal minimum wage, which I bet in Arkansas in 1991 wasn't great. Probably not. She was working up front at the conference. I believe she was handing out name tags and badges. Jones was beckoned up to Clinton's hotel room, allegedly. She was escorted up there by a state trooper. And as the way that Paula Jones tells it,

she was brought into the hotel room, her and Bill talked for a second Bill then came over wrapped his arms around her started kissing her neck and as she tried to reject his advances he then moved over to the couch and was just

generally talking to her as he unzipped his pants pulls his pants down sits on the couch and in the most romantic way possible I'm sure looks at Sally or Paula and says do you want to kiss it you gotta

do you all kiss it you all kiss it what the fuck man that's a crazy line to try to use yeah no shit man and and paul is 24 years old at this point she's a state clerk she's she's going up there

because first of all the state trooper has gone and you know fetched her but at the same time she's i think has submitted like a certain proposal or worked on a certain project that she was under the impression she was going up there to hear something about maybe some funding for this project. And instead he's like,

you want a promotion, bust out the lotion? I can totally understand wanting to go up and meet the governor of your state. Like, I wouldn't want to, but I could see the allure. You work in the government. And if that person is ever looking for someone to fill a non-creeply related role or anything like that,

yeah, that's the kind of person you want to know your face and to know what your name is. Absolutely. And to have a good personal interaction with. She is like, peace out and ends up leaving. So she had said that after she rejected his advances, Bill had made a comment as far as like, that's okay. I'm sorry that this happened.

That's okay. Was it I'm sorry this happened? I'm sorry. This happens. Or I'm sorry. This didn't happen. I don't know what it is. But the fact that she's able to say that.

And again, I'm not making light of this. We're not making light of this. This is, it's disgusting. I tend to believe Paula, just because of how much this woman goes through in the saga. You got to add some brevity to it. Yeah. I think we've established that we can try to handle some of these topics, but we got to add a little brevity to it. Speaking of brevity, January 27, 1992, a woman named Jennifer Flowers holds a press conference in New York City and admits to a 12-year affair with the then-governor.

This would be confirming all of the tabloid buzz that Clinton had already had about having a lover. While she's up on stage, she's taking questions from the audience, and she ends up admitting that she was sought out and offered payments by Conservative Party donors. They had paid her to show up and announced to the public and basically unmask herself as Bill Clinton's 12-year lover. So instantly at that point, you see the financial motive and incentive to come out with this information. and then that automatically in turns makes you question if the information is legitimate because you're being paid to say this stuff. But while at the same time, I 100% believe this. No, 100%.

But again, we are gifted with being able to look back at all of the pieces together. For sure. Well, we're talking about a time January 27, 1992. We're in the election cycle. This is an election year. We have Bill Clinton running for president. Oh, yeah. Remember during, I don't remember this, but during one of the debates, this is when he drops

that line regarding him and smoking weed at Oxford. And he's like, I experimented with marijuana, a time or two. I didn't inhale. Do you remember that was always a famous thing? Yeah.

I didn't inhale. Well, part of this, I wish he hadn't lied about it. Bill would be a lot cooler if he did. He had a college friend in Cliff Jackson. Cliff Jackson is a very wealthy Republican donor, but they were friends in college. as he's going through this election cycle in this campaign year, Cliff Jackson is starting to

leak how Bill Clinton avoided Vietnam and how Cliff Jackson kind of helped him maneuver around being drafted. So Cliff is giving up some information on Bill before he's even president. He's seen, I guess, I mean, he was friends with Bill. I'm not sure where this all changed, but he starts kind of dropping some dimes. after Jennifer Come on If he's a Republican donor You know for a fact

That there's a quid pro quo Of help us get this information And when we're in control You're going to get something very favorable Hey do you have any development deals Do you need anything favors whatever Yeah After the Jennifer Flowers press conference hits

Bill and Hillary Have a TV interview Where Bill admits to causing pain in his marriage And you're not going to hear me give Hillary Clinton a whole ton of credit and we might get to why eventually but she's

a chance of the gift of all of our future knowledge. She's a champ during this whole entire interview, sitting there supporting Bill, totally understanding that after Jennifer Flowers came out with this, Bill probably had to spill the beans on this.

He had to explain everything in their relationship, maybe not everything. But Bill and Hillary have maybe the weird this relationship that's ever existed. Yeah. Yeah, we kind of text about this back and forth. If it's like a, uh,

I feel like it's one of those things. And I didn't do a lot of, I didn't do any research back into Hillary's family and kind of their status in the country. The Roddums. And then bills. Oh, yeah. And then bills what the Clintons were and everything like that. But it strikes me as a very wedding crashers.

The glories and the lodges to great American family. I feel like it's that kind of marriage. where it is a marriage of convenience of the lineage, I guess, of theirs. And they're like bred for politics. And then after going through all this kind of shit, what would be the benefit of divorce after all the stuff that they've been through where they could very easily just be getting shit on the side and have that kind of private agreement?

And once they're out of office, no one's really going to give a shit. You don't think that we would still be hearing about Bill meeting up with some 30-year-old on the beach. No, no, I don't think it's that kind of allowance. I think it's like, Bill, you get one. Yeah. And she lives on the property and Hillary gets some, you know, some spicy fucking, whatever she likes, whatever she's secretly into. Club foot of Puerto Rican boy. It could have been. Meeting you, wanting you, taking you. Mm-hmm. Sweating all over you. Um, and maybe that's her thing. And he, you know, he lives on the property too. Again, I do think that, that's a really weird fucking relationship.

I would love to just be able to sit down for... I need hours. I need so many hours for that. Yeah, just to explain it. They either have the simplest relationship to explain or the hardest relationship to explain. I don't even need to record it. I just want to know it and I'll never have to talk about it again. I did think that we kind of came to the consensus that probably the reason that their marriage has lasted for so long

is because spouses can't testify against each other. Oh, yeah. That's definitely got to be a pretty big part of that. And who else can relate to the shared experiences, right? Yeah. Okay. Bill's still denying these claims about flowers. So he's saying that he caused pain in his marriage,

but he's still denying the claims that are made by flowers. I don't get that. I truly don't understand. It's like, you know, I didn't do the dishes. And like, I missed trash day a couple times. Pain. And despite all these allegations, Bill Clinton ends a 12-year Republican reign of the presidency in this 1992 election.

He shuts down Bush Sr. And says, go sit down, old man. It's my turn. And Clinton... So watch me shit on this sacks. I thought I saw a messed up video clip of Clinton after he won, but he says that he's going to make America great again. So that slogan was even used back then.

That's a democratic slogan. And I'm sure it had never been used at any point before that either. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the H-Man slipped it in. about Germany, but I'm sure Make America Great Again was used every 10, 12 years. It sounds different in German. It doesn't look like in a hat. It doesn't look as good.

He's this kind of tour de force. He's in office. He starts changing things pretty quickly. He's a very young president by the standards that we've had recently. And I guess recently now. By December 1993, there were just so many more problems. And they started piling up. There's this article that was published in the,

conservative magazine called the American Spectator. The American Spectator sounds like a real piece of shit. Two state troopers, Larry Patterson and Roger Perry, were the focus of this article. It was named his cheat and heart. Just a nice shot at the country boys. These troopers alleged that they sought out and transported women for Clinton's sex capades. They laid out this very detailed pattern of picking Clinton up in the morning, taking him

different houses, bringing women in to the house, I guess the governor's mansion at different times of the day. Yeah. These troopers, do you see my face? This is my not shocked face. Yeah, dude, like it's so, and especially, I mean, this has to help Paula Jones case, right? Because she admits that there was a state trooper. One would think. Yeah. It does end up coming out that the troopers that do give this story were eventually paid by a conservative donor named Peter Smith that had made a fundraiser for them. These troopers were pointed to the author David Brock that did the article by Cliff Jackson, by Bill's old college friend that happened to have some information that just went along and passed this on.

There's the taste of betrayal. It is kind of funny listening to David Brock. I listened to an interview on him. There's some very good podcast series on this. There's not a ton, but there are some very good ones. David Brock, as he's talking in this interview, explains that he felt like he was doing the right thing until he finds out that Peter Smith had paid these troopers for their story, essentially. And then he kind of realizes that this is exactly what Republicans needed at that point in time,

which was just another hit piece that they could go ahead and lay on. They're just laying on another layer of paint on the Clinton being a sexual deviant. Yeah. And I'm not saying that these troopers are liars. Again, I totally believe all this. There is, that again, that is why the not shocked face before you told me about the bribery shit. Yeah. But again, that was the playbook about a state trooper who was, I believe, named Danny Ferguson, was the one that escorted Paula Jones up to his room.

Yeah. So it's a, again, man, there are times when I would like to be able to try to view this through the lens of not knowing the end result. Yeah. Like being able to see a movie and not know what else going to end. I was going to use the Odyssey as an example, but we knew how that was going to end. But no, like when you see this and then that kind of stuff, and you're telling me that I'm like, of course, that seems like a thing that he would very likely do. Yeah.

In this story that David Brock writes, he makes reference to a woman named Paula. and in this story about Paula, as she's leaving the hotel room, she tells one of the state troopers to let Bill know that she would be good making this a regular thing. And what this does, as Paula's friends

start to tell her about this article, Paula Jones comes out of seclusion and tries to clear her name. She wants to share her truth. And on February 11th, 1994, Paula Jones makes her first public appearance at a CPAC event, a conservative political action committee event in D.C. Following comments from, I guess you could call her his advisor at this point in time

and these other Republicans that were making these, I guess, proclamations to these reporters, Paula gets to give a very brief explanation of the harassment that she went through a bill's hand. And this is all tied into the fact that Trooper Gate is happening. This has hit the news. And now you have a woman that's coming out and she's saying, well, this happened. At the same time, obviously this story was a lie because I'm telling you that I didn't want this. Okay. So just so I kind of understand the timeline here, Trooper Gate comes out in the time before Paula then decides to come out in response to this, was it discovered the truth?

Trooper gate was something that was funded or is it not been discovered? I believe it was found after that. After Paula came out? Yeah. Okay. So at this point, that is still being believed to where her stuff just simply ties in even more so to it. It ties in while at the same time it hurts the piece because in the piece that Brock writes,

he says that Paula tells the trooper that she wants to make a regular thing. Paula's account contradicts that, which then calls into account or question the entirety of the story. While at the same time, kind of validating the story because she's Paula. Yeah. Yeah. In a weird, yes, it both. There's a portion of it. She just wants her portion contradicted.

Against the backdrop of all this, we get back into the political controversy that's going on. Because you have Troopergate, you have all that. May 19th, 1993, Clinton faces this massive ethics controversy because there were seven White House travel office employees that were fired. They were replaced by political. friends from Arkansas people that had helped on the campaign. Now, Bill had sensed that there was something going on. The FBI had, they'd been poking around the travel office since like the Reagan era. They had seen that there were some improprieties and some of the payments that were being made and things like that. Bill sees this as an opportunity to contact the FBI and the liaison that

happens to contact the FBI and kind of handles this is a man named Vince Foster Jr. So, as these seven White House travel employees are fired, allegations that Hillary pushed for their terminations to benefit all these friends. White House is publicly stating that these firings were due to these financial improprieties in the travel office that the FBI had uncovered. So the FBI found reasons to get rid of them. And the Republicans come out and they say, well, isn't that kind of an overreach of your power trying to weaponize the FBI? It was like, it was his White House. It's also the FBI, the whole point is the FBI is impartial.

And the FBI, or supposed to be impartial, there was a time. Yeah. I don't know what it was, because I'm thinking Hoover and then I'm trying to remember at what point would have been impartial. But at the same time, that is, that's allowing an outside agency to investigate something instead of you just doing it yourself and then having the end result be the same. Firing them without any evidence. Yeah, exactly. Unfortunately, one of the people that's hired is Bill Clinton's third cousin, her name, is Catherine Cornelius.

And of course, in every single paper that comes out, it's just Bill's cousin hired to run the travel office. Not third cousin, which again, third cousin is so far, I don't even... I mean, you can marry cousins even like, you know, much closer than that. In Arkansas, it wouldn't be illegal for her and Clinton to get married. The investigations all found that the White House was correct, that Bill Clinton was correct in looking into this travel gate problem. This Deputy White House counsel and personal friend that I was just talking about, Vince Foster Jr., is found dead in a Fort Marcy Park in Virginia of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. And when this story comes out, it kind of takes on a life of its own almost immediately when it goes down. because as Foster is looked at

and they're trying to figure out what's going on with his death, people start to ask questions because there's already some poking around about what Whitewater maybe did or didn't do. As far as that goes, Foster was this liaison that I talked about

between the FBI and the White House and it turned into a fiasco. There were points in time where Foster was giving, I believe he gave a graduation speech at one point in time, days before this happened. And he was very demure. He wasn't really talking about the bright future that these college kids were going to have.

Yeah, he had been seeing, I don't know if it was a psychologist or anything like that, but there was a period of time leading up to that when he was, like, suffering from severe depression. Probes would eventually happen from the U.S. Park Police, there were congressional committees that were formed. Eventually, Kenneth Starr gets a hold of this, and they all conclude that the death was a suicide.

The reason that this really picks up steam is because hours after Foster was found, there was White House counsel named Bernard Nussbaum. And the Park Police and the Justice Department both wanted to go into Foster's office, and they wanted to search for a suicide note, anything that they could have to kind of back up these claims that this is what this was.

And Bernard ends up Stop. Standard policing stuff, right? Bernard steps in and he says that you guys will not conduct this full unmonitored search of Foster's office because even though he is a

paid employee of the White House, he was also previously private counsel for the Clintons. Which means that there's attorney-client privilege stuff that's possibly in here. Also, we don't know what type of clearance. You guys could see something that's not within their clearance and

we need to have a chance to go through here first, which on the surface, if you just kind of buy shit, that sounds like, oh, okay, I guess that kind of makes sense. But when you know what is more likely being done, then you're just like, okay, there's, there's some fuckery going on. There is some there. Um, news bomb reviews and, excuse me, separates these files in Foster's office into a personal and professional file. The professional files are given to investigators. This is based upon this is White House shit.

This is in your clearance area. You're going to be able to look through this stuff. Personal files end up being transferred out of Foster's office. They're brought into the Clinton residence within the White House. They're putting a safe. And eventually they're handed off to the Clinton's outside counsel. Nobody's seen them. nobody knows what's in these documents

it's all a mystery the conspiracy theories immediately like I said begin after after Foster's found but the whitewater stuff becomes more interesting because this is I guess kind of

the first part and this is maybe the first thing that I've found maybe there's some other crazy conspiracy theorists out there that have a previous murder that can be attached to the Clintons I don't know but it starts looking like to some people that the Clintons may have killed Foster to try to conceal any potentially damaging information related to Whitewater.

And the travel office controversy, because you have him that was heading up that as well. Anything and everything can be tied into it. Now, Clinton's obviously deny any wrongdoing. Maybe the biggest problem with the Clintons, of them there's many, is they can just never look innocent. They have this innate ability to look guilty about, even the littlest things. Yeah. And I don't know what that is.

I don't know if that's their faces, their mannerisms, or maybe they just are guilty a lot. It just might be a combination of everything at any given point, some more than others. Yeah. In, I think it's August 94 is when special counsel, Ken Starr, is actually appointed to investigate Whitewater, Madison Guarantee, and the Rose Law firm.

Well, even before that, we have February of 1994, these allegations against these Clinton associates of wrongdoing, surface and the American Spectator again. Ding, ding, ding, ding, the American Spectator showed back up into this picture. The associate AG, Webster Hubble, who was a friend of Hillary in a former Rose Law firm partner, the same law firm that Hillary worked at, ends up resigning April 14th in 1994. There's all of these allegations flowing around. And after he resigns, Hubble takes a job as a private contract consultant that's arranged by the Clinton friend and also so I believe lawyer of Hillary, Vernon Jordan.

This is weird. Remember Vernon Jordan's name. Remember Hubble's name because it's going to come into this whole Kenna Star shit. And it's bad. So he ends up pleading guilty of mail fraud and tax evasion in December of 1994. He refuses to cooperate. And from the outside looking in, they're saying, well, he was, he resigns. And then Vernon Jordan, the close personal friend of Bill and Hillary, finds him these consulting jobs.

It was like a subsidiary of Revlon or something like that where they know that he's being paid a ton of money, but they don't know what he's doing. That's going to be a well they go back to later too. Yeah. Was this a job that they were paying him exorbitant amounts of money to do nothing to not cooperate? Is that what's going on? I mean, that doesn't happen ever in government, right? Yeah. And just following that, May 6th of 1994, two days before the statute of limitations

inspires on Paula Jones' lawsuit that she could file against Bill Clinton, she files this civil suit for sexual harassment. She's seeking $750,000 in a formal apology. She gets these shit-ass lawyers named Gilbert Davis in Joseph Comarda. They end up representing Jones against Clinton's counsel, who are seeking to delay this trial because they're saying that a sitting president can't be sued while in office.

Yeah, so like what? Sitting president, total civil immunity while they're in office and their argument was it was to avoid paralyzing the executive office for me to fulfill its duties. It's a civil trial. That should be okay.

From something that stemmed prior to the presidency. Yeah. And the case moves all the way up to the Supreme Court. And everybody is ruling in favor of Paula Jones. And these Clinton lawyers just keep pushing it further and further up, eventually Telskota says this is clear to move on. Yeah. I mean, it was, and it was unanimous nine to zero ruling. Yeah.

The sitting president is not immune from civil litigation for actions taken before the office. Nine to nothing in the civil courts. Mm-hmm. That's a hell of a sweep. Nine to nothing's very hard to get. Back in Whitewaterville, the Attorney General Janet Reno appoints a man named Robert Fisk in 1995. It was a special prosecutor to investigate the legality of the Whitewater transactions. There were two allegations.

One of them stemmed from a November 1992 allegation that the president then, Attorney General Clinton, had exerted pressure on a businessman named David Hale to, allow this illegal $300,000 loan to Susan McDougall, Jim McDougal's wife. Then Clinton exerted a little bit more pressure to potentially get another loan. That never really came to fruition in this. It was just mainly around this $300,000 loan. The second allegation that pops up that this Arkansas Bank concealed transactions involving the Clinton's 1990 gubernatorial campaign. This wasn't the savings alone because the savings and loaned are already going tits up at that point.

So this was another bank that Clinton had ties to that were maybe doing some illegal shit as far as donating to his campaign. And that was his governor. This wasn't even his presidential campaign at that point in time. I don't think it was 95. I think that was supposed to be as

and it looked like 95. Because May 1994, so he must have been appointed in 1994, Fisk issues this grand jury subpoena to the Clintons for documents that related to the Madison Guarantee Bank. And the Clintons reported that some of these documents were missing. Now, I don't believe in magic traditionally.

Even after the Harry Potter episode? The Sasquatch, come on. Somehow magically, two years later, these subpoena billing records that had gone missing from the Rose Law firm were found in the Clinton's private residence. They were found in a room that had, gifts that had been given to bill, unsolicited gifts that had been given to the Clintons, and as they were rummaging around and digging through it,

they found these Rose Law Firm, I guess, documents from the mid-80s? Why would you move Rose Law Firm documents from the mid-80s into the White House in the 90s? Regardless, once these billing records have been found, Hillary's like, Oh, look, not me. Not that big of a deal. That wasn't me. They're like, you understand how this looks, right? She's like, yeah, good.

Because this clears me of any sort of wrongdoing because I produced these. Like, you found them in a closet. It seems like maybe these magically appeared and all of a sudden, once they magically appear, they make you look good. It's another. Two years later. Yeah, it's a whole other situation where it's like you guys are just trying to look guilty at this point. There's nothing that you can do. Even if by happenstance that this happens and it's actually a real thing,

There's no way that that looks innocent. A big thing to kind of jump in back to the now progressing Clinton, Paula Jones case, is that when SCOTIS hands down this ruling, it opens up basically this civil discovery floodgate where Jones lawyers gained the legal power to subpoena witnesses and then investigate Clinton's private life to, as part of the Jones case, because what they have to do of this civil case is it's, at this point, it's Clinton's word against Paul Jones' word. That's who was in the room experiencing this thing. In order to build the case against Bill, they're going to try to find other instances in which he has acted inappropriately made sexual advances toward women, anything they

can do to build essentially a history of that type of behavior. And now they have this insanely broad net that they can cast and it's going to get some bites. And not only is it going to get some bites just from people coming in, but it's going to give them the power to just dig into anything and everything they want to. Fisk ultimately ends up reporting

that, this is June 30th that same year in 1994. He releases this interim report concluding that the Clintons and White House officials hadn't interfered in this resolution trust corporation case that they were looking into that were related to those missing records that magically reappear years later.

He also, He also reaffirms that Foster died by suicide, so this is kind of the second nod that he died by suicide. But after this, like you say, they can go hog wild. Both houses of Congress start investigating Whitewater. In August 1994, this is when special prosecutor is replaced by Kenneth Starr. So Fisk did the first kind of legwork. Once they had to bump it up to Whitewater, Kenneth Starr gets brought in. I listened to an interview with Kenneth Starr.

guy's a bitch guy sucks he was talking about how he was on the fast track of being named to the short list of becoming a Supreme Court Justice before he was tapped for this special prosecutor job I don't know if that's a brag

I just I don't know but the fact that he was talking about how important he was at this point in time and maybe he was I don't fucking know I was five years old at the time maybe Kenneth Star was a big deal well here's the thing too based on what we know going through this topic and the way that he approaches and the way that he handles speaking to some of these witnesses,

it's fucking disgusting. Yeah, it's horrific. So he would end up leading this investigation all the way up until its culmination on September 11th, 1998. Never forget. June 1995. There's a young unpaid intern named Monica Lewinsky that begins working for the White House chief of staff, Leon Panetta.

and this is where the love story starts. So just a little background on Monica Lewinsky. She has a pretty interesting upbringing. It was kind of crazy to go through it. Her father was actually a German Jew that left the country, and I believe he ended up going down somewhere in South America. It may have been Argentina before he ends up coming up to the United States. You're going a hunting trip down there?

No, I think that he was a German Jew that was fleeing Germany. Yeah. He just ended up in, so he wasn't one of the bad guys that fleets to South America. No, no, no, I mean, he was hunting. He was hunting Germans down there. Oh, he might have been down there looking for the fellas instead of being one of the fellas. He ends up coming up to the United States. So the family is based in California.

I believe she was born in San Francisco. They would move down kind of south. she attended schools in Bel Air. Yeah, she attended schools. Beverly Hills. California Girl. And following her high school graduation, Lewinsky attends Santa Monica College. She's working for the drama department again at Beverly Hills High School.

Now, there's something that's going on in her life. This man named Andy Blyler, who was, I believe, 24 at the time when he was helping teach her drama classes in high school, they start to get a little hot and heavy. And apparently supposedly Bliler is single at the time. He does, in fact, get married and they start this kind of... Not to Monica. No, not to Monica. Yes, not to Monica. So they're dating, or kind of, he then gets married.

So he's dating someone else that he gets married to. As they're carrying on this affair, he has a kid. Monica realized that this is a bad situation for her. This isn't a good thing that's happening, so she tries to get away. She doesn't realize after the marriage that, like, here's the thing. Again, innocent idiot in the village of idiots, but this is a situation in which this establishes also a pattern for her. Yeah, there's no slut shaming here.

I don't care what she does in a private time, but it's, it would be too hard not to point that out just because of what we know is coming. Yeah. So she ends up enrolling at Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon. She graduates with a bachelor's degree in psychology in 1995. While she's in Portland, Oregon, trying to get away from Blyler after her mother said, you kind of got to get out of the situation. Blyler calls her up, and Blyler says that he has a job opportunity in Portland,

and he's going to be moving there. What are the odds? And this relationship continues on until finally Marcia, her mother says, I'm working in D.C. right now. there's a friend of the family who had a son that did an internship with the White House

I can get you in there you need to get away from Blyler I think she's like I know I'm good friends with like a large Democratic donor we'll get you in there it's going to be

like unpaid internship and everything but at this point she's like think of what that experience is going to look like because I believe that she had applied

to graduate school and she got rejected because she was fooling around with that Andy dude and like during the entrance exam she bombed it and so her mother is basically like think of how good this is going to look on an application

at graduate school that you interned at the White House Yeah I mean It's certainly something that not everybody's going to get to write on their Right on their applications No so in July of 1995 She arrives at the White House At the age of 21 As an unpaid intern

Like you said to the chief of staff Leon Panetta Now This is I mean There's going to be certain circumstances instances here again, again, we're not making excuses or anything like that, but it's almost like the perfect storm of stuff occurs for this to, for this to happen. So as she's serving, she's not even working in the White House itself. She's like across the street in one of the other admin

buildings or anything like that. And so she's not making trips into the White House, let alone the West Wing, let alone the Oval Office or anything like that. And at this point as she's working, you know, she's going into the cafeteria. And this information is from like also her interviews and her biography and stuff like that that she's done. But she would go and she would sit in the lunchroom with all these other women. And they would talk about, oh, we saw the president. He's so handsome and all that kind of stuff. And if you've ever seen a picture of Bill Clinton at that time, Bill's not a traditionally handsome dude.

No. But apparently at the, you know, the account of all of these women and then a very eventually Monica, there is just like, Bill just has it. Like, there's something about his energy or just like the way he looks at you that is just, it's a moisting agent, apparently. Because these women are like, we saw him. He's so handsome. And Monica's like, what are you talking about? His nose is always right.

His hair's like white and everything like that guy. And they're like, you don't get it. Bill's got it. And eventually, she is brought into the White House by the chief of staff for some reason. and she ends up, is it, it's not in the Oval Office or, yeah, they do go into the Oval Office, right? Are you talking about before the shutdown? Before the shutdown. Okay.

Because that's prior to, that's how he ends up seeing her for the first time. There's no real interaction at that point. They might be cordial and everything, but it's about basically her boss or whoever she's following has to hand something off or give something to him. She gets the bill fever quick. But that was the time when she's like, I get it. Which, again, I don't get it. No.

But just going off what Monica says. Well, there are even times, not to really harp on this fact, but like she, Marcia, her mom would say, hey, this friend of the family, I know that you're an unpaid intern, but this friend of the family scored us some tickets to go see Bill give this speech in the Rose Garden. Would you like to attend with me and see this? And Monica's like, yeah, I saw him And he's kind of cute Maybe we could go watch him speak Yeah And she's out there in just hot ass weather

Sweating to death And about ready to pass out And then the music starts And then Bill starts walking And as he's walking down And shaking him It's the saxophone Playing oh to the chief

Or whatever it's called And he comes out And he's fucking wearing Aviators rocking it He's not really doing that But there's a Oh, that's what it was So during his first inauguration

one of the documentaries that I was watching. Ed's shown him partying at the inauguration, and the guy that introduces him is Kevin Spacey. Really? And Kevin Spacey comes up and gives him a side hug. It's just like, oh, that right now is not good. What we know now, that's pretty bad luck, Bill. But Bill is walking through, and he's shaking hands,

and Monica turns to her mother, and she says, did you see that? Bill looked at me and smiled. He saw me. He knows me. He recognized me in the crowd after we'd seen each other before. And 1994 becomes a pretty pivotal year because you have midterms. And during these midterms, Bill was cruising pretty well in his first couple years.

It's a completely different game once midterms come around because you can be president with a, you can be a Democratic president with a Democratic Congress and you can do whatever you want. You can flow right through it. Same thing with the Republicans, except for now it seems like somehow that doesn't happen. anything you Yeah There was a time In which you controlled all the

Yeah And I believe at this time Maybe look it up How long the Democrats It had had control of the House Up until the 1994 election Because I want to say It was like 40 years or something like that

Like it's McCarthy era time As Bill's talking to his pollsters He's saying What are we looking like? I say you're going to lose the house instead Because we haven't lost the house in forever. There's no way that's going to happen. He goes, people aren't happy with all this trooper gate. Correct, but it's the swing too, because you just had 12 years of the executive

branch being Republican. There's going to be a swing to something. The pendulum shifts. That's how it's supposed to work technically. And Bill's confident. He says, we're not going to lose the house. We might lose the Senate. We're not going to lose the House. 1994 midterms come. They lose the House and Senate. And in doing so, Newt Gingrich becomes the Speaker of the House. And he starts to lead this charge over the budget. He's saying that the Clinton White House is spending far too much money, and they're raising taxes to try to keep up with this, but this budget's overblown and it's bloated.

And we can't come to terms, so... This bill is big, but it is not beautiful. Clinton ends up shutting down the government on November 14th, excuse me, 1995, because they can't... There's an impasse. There's an interview that Gingrich does on TV where he makes reference to not liking Bill Clinton because they were flying somewhere on Air Force One and Bill Clinton made him sit in the back of the plane. And he's holding this grudge and it almost kind of comes across like he's kind of got this shutdown going because of this personal grudge with Clinton. Clinton comes out after this interview and he goes,

if Newt thinks that I disrespected him, I would just like to tell him, I'm sorry. We got to figure this out, Newt. This only happens. I believe this goes from like November 14th to November 19th. It's like a five-day shutdown. I'm sorry. How uncomfortable are the seats, any of the seats on Air Force One?

I got to imagine there's a little bit of like he's the speaker of the house. He probably should be around the talk and the decision-making going around. But he's also on the opposing... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's just, he's got sour to me, or sour grapes because he's, he's from the other party. But during this shutdown is kind of this crucial moment in the Bill and Monica relationship. Before we get into it, you want to take a bathroom break?

Yeah. Well, hello. Listen, while we head to the restroom and get ourselves something to drink, why don't you do something nice for yourselves? Head on over to patreon.com slash historically high and get signed up for a little bonus content. I mean, come on, you deserve it. If you want to keep up with this, our main source of social media is going to be our Instagram,

which is Historically High Pod, P-O-D. You can also head over to its Twitter, it's X, it's Twitter, come on, at historically high, and that's high, H-I-like, hi. If you have any recommendations,

you want to get to us, just want to reach out and say hello, you can hit us up on our email at Historically High Podcast, H-I-G-H-H-H-H-Podcast at gmail.com. All right. And with that said, let's get back to the good stuff. All right. So circumstances at the White House running on a skeleton crew where it's just the

unpaid interns there during the shutdown. Bill's still there because, you know, it's his house. So there's all these non-essential staff or furloughed. That means that there's a lot less people. There's a lot less staff, but at the same time, there's not a lot of movement between rooms because no one's really doing a whole lot. So there's a lot more privacy and a lot more time that can be kind of you can duck away a little bit because no one's trying to be in your ear all the time. It's, it makes total sense. You have all your paid employees on furlough.

You still have to do things. The president still has to be in contact with Congress as they're trying to work through. You're trying to break this shutdown. Well, and at the same time, now you've decreased the proximity because now you're no longer working across the street for Monica. You're working right there in the West Wing, access to the Oval Office. Was it blue badges got you into the White House? Yes, and she had a pink one originally. So November 15, 1995, this is what's marked as kind of the, we'll just call them encounters.

Thong Day. Thong Day. Yep. So during this kind of informal staff gathering at the Chief of Staff at Panetta. his office. They're sitting there. I think there's two people in the room that's kind of the, I guess you would call it the waiting room or where like his, the people serving on his staff are sitting.

There's two desks there. Like a bullpen maybe? Yeah. Monica's at one. There's another woman another. And then there's the door going into Panetta's office. So Clinton rolls in. There's, you know, exchange of pleasantries because both of Monica and this other woman

are paying attention. He goes into Panetta's office. They're talking a little bit. Monica's trying to listen in and she's like, this is my chance. This is my shot. Shooters got to shoot, right? You miss 100% of the goals you don't take or shots you don't take. I think she had some sort of a feeling because Clinton, she had said that in the first day,

Clinton had been in and out of Panetta's office a couple times. But during a shutdown, he has to be there. There's only so much to do. And on this day, November 15th, he'd already been in a couple times. So I believe it was the third pass And she's like, well, is he coming in to see me? Yeah. Just in the full on young, early 20s.

We got a little vibe here. She's kind of vibe checking Bill and the vibe looks good. What do men respond to? What's really going to grab his attention? I know. I'm going to wait until I can hear him start to come out of the office. I'm going to position myself facing. I'm going to go to the outside of my desk like I'm facing in toward where I'm sitting.

I'm going to act like I'm arranging my desk and when I do I'm going to flip up the back of my jacket, my shirt, pull down, I think it was a skirt she was wearing, right? Yeah, I just heard the waist. And then she pulls up the old whale tail

a little bit just where it's visible as Bill walks out the door. You know that's exactly where the eyes go, right? This may have been one of the funniest texts that I've ever gotten from you. Like I had to, to take a minute. I almost lost my breath.

And I was standing at work when I read it. And you called this the Arkansas dinner bell? Yeah. I fucking lost it. Like the people that were working next to me. Dingling, ling, ling, ling, ling. That's all Bill is here in his head right now. The world does not

exist outside of this. I think it was a pink thong. And so... I bet you Bill knows still. Yes. Now, I can't remember if... I can't remember if like turns around and makes eye contact, but I think she stands back up, acts like it was an accident and he leaves the office. She knows, he knows Panetta probably didn't see it. Yeah, I was going to say it's, yes, this is, it's the bell coming outside in an Amish barn

raisin. It has been rung. And later that evening, Bill invites her into his private study that's off of the Oval Office. And as they walk in, he's like, so where, where'd you go to college. They have this little conversation and then Monica, I just feel so safe with you. I don't know what to do about this. Shut down. Oh, I'm so nervous. Come over here. Comfort me. They do a little bit of smooching and then, you know, as one does when they're in their early 20s, Monica proceeds to help me out here. So it's like a... Phalachiate? Yes. Perform, perform the act of fallacious. on William, is it Jefferson Clinton?

Yeah. It's so performs a BJ on BJ. It's, the way that I had heard it was they had this first kissing interaction and then she went back into the bullpen for a little bit. And as she was leaving or going to do something else in the White House, she kind of sees him off in the shadow when he, he beckons her back into the office again. I can't help us thinking about those sweet lips years. and how good they would feel in other places. We're going to say blowjobs a lot. We're going to say oral sex a lot.

Falacio was just kind of the first thing to dip our toes into the blowy pond here. There's a weird pattern to these blow jobs until we have kind of this final eruption, or this, I guess, initial eruption. We'll talk about what we get to it, but they're very odd. I believe that she's walking out of the office. Bill looks down at her pass and he goes, we're going to have to get you a different color. So she's going to be moving on up per Bill's request. December 1925, I don't know if this was per bill's request, honestly.

She gets promoted to the White House. She gets promoted to a paid position. Yeah, there's an event that happens before that too. At the end of the shutdown. No, it's while it still is in effect. So November 15th is the first encounter. Yeah. November 17th, government shutdown is still in effect.

Lewinsky's delivering some paperwork to the Oval Office. They have their little second dalliance in the private hallway off the Oval Office. This is where Clinton actually takes a phone call from a member of Congress and his counselor while this is actually going on. Now, I have a theory about this. Have you ever received a blowjob in a, place where you could pretty easily get caught. Uh, no.

So what I'm getting at, what I'm getting at here? This is not a knock on Monica's skills. Oh, I believe she was a literate woman in, in those arts. I'm not going to make an assumption and say it was bad ones. I think there was a lot of nerves that were going on for Bill because there was also like seven of these,

or even more where Hillary was also in the White House at the same time. I think he just got, I think he had a little bit of scaredy dick. I think it got hard, but I think getting over the threshold was a little difficult. Yeah, Bill went over. He's also talking to another, a congressman. Yeah, and that's, that to me is almost more interesting, the fact that it, and maybe he just always kind of sounded a little off, but if Bill's getting, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Oh, no. I'm taking this conflict in the Middle East. Oh. You okay, Bill? Yeah. Mm-hmm. I just, this really shakes me to my... Oh.

Yeah. It's so odd. Bill goes, would you say seven? Oh, for seven busless for these first seven. Buddy, it might be more than that. Well, we'll do count. So that's two, right? Yeah.

We go to December 31st, 95. So New Year's Eve. This is Balzy. Yeah. Year's Eve. This is a weekend visit to the White House. Lewinsky meets Clinton in the Oval Office suite, where they engaged in a little bit of,

and I'm going to use different things here, intimate contact and a little oral sex in the study. So we got three. Again, not resulting in a bust. Yes. In a bust. Oh, for three on the bus counter. He scared to get busted, so he and thus cannot bust.

Yeah, and this is after she's promoted in 1995 to working with, White House. So now things are getting a little bit easier. Shutdown's over. Everybody's back. She's a paid member. Which that didn't, she did, okay, here's my pitch. She did so good during the shutdown. So, so good. And no one was like, mm-hmm. You got to imagine, there were some people that were like, mm-hmm. I didn't look into this woman enough. Betty Curry. Betty Curry was Bill Clinton's personal and confidence of secretary.

Betty Curry was a gangster. Betty Curry, I think, I was thinking about her a lot today. Betty Curry, I think, was probably, and this is just an assumption, might not be accurate at all. But I get the feeling that Betty Curry was with Bill for a long time. The loyalty she has to him, I feel like Betty Curry was in there from like AG or governor days. because Betty Curry goes to great lengths for Bill. She is the one that is actually arranging a lot of these like sneak-ins that they're bringing Monica in on like these weekends and stuff like that.

There's a... Betty. Betty. What, Bill? Betty, you know what I need. I need some of that. Oh, I need some money. Billy needs a sugar.

Can you bring Billy a sugar? This episode, is kind of heavy on kind of morals, I guess you would say. Or light. Yeah. Well, I think it's heavily emphasized that morals are an issue here. We're talking about Washington, D.C., man. Yeah, very true.

Betty Curry was a facilitator. While at the same time, Betty Curry didn't ever really completely betray Bill Clinton. No. No. What were Nixon's guys called that, like, fixed shit? I mean, black bag guys something like that

I'm trying to remember what the term was Clinton's was kind of Betty Yeah And when you get into a situation We'll also talk about this With Monica too

If you don't like being in the situation But you're in the situation Morals may flow out the door And there's just a certain way To handle things And Betty was already in too deep And Betty handled this Again like a gee

She was awesome I'm not saying awesome as far as morally in what's going on here where she's facilitating an adulterous affair. You've got to admire Betty's fortitude? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably the right way to put it.

We get to January 21st. So initially, there's not a lot of time between these. Billy's getting his sugar pretty frequently at this point. I think there might have been an interaction on the seventh, too. I think there might have been an interaction on the seventh, too. It may not have been sex. Oh, sorry. I okay yeah so the seventh sorry

yeah so we go a week Sunday evening a lot of these are happening like Sunday evening Sunday afternoon Lewinsky's entering the Oval Office be like the suite via like a private hallway and then again it's back to some heavy petting probably some under the shirt action and again oral sex

weirdly enough Bill not a not a giver not a selfish lover yeah he's not performing the oral sex which will come into play. Yeah. Actually, during the deposition. Jumped to January 21st. Again, we're in 1996 now.

Sunday afternoon. Still bust free, mind you. Still bust free. Yep. Lewinsky visits the Oval Office study again. She's becoming insanely familiar with this. And during the act of oral sex again, Clinton is speaking to another member of Congress regarding the recent military deployment

to Bosnia. What the fuck, man? Can you imagine had Monica gone out and invested heavily in defense contractors and made a ton of money? And they're like, where did you learn your information? Straight from the tap. February 4th. So taking a little maybe like two week break, she is bringing in some official documents into the Oval Office. I wonder if that was code for something.

But this is again, their old playbook at this point. A little bit of kissing, a little over the shirt, under the shirt action. and a little oral sex in the private study area again. One of the documentaries that I watched, I'll have to find it because it's actually pretty interesting. Typically, if I see like A&E in front of a documentary, I don't watch it because they slant a lot of their stuff. This was like a six or seven part series.

I think it's on Amazon too. But it gives a pretty in-depth story from Monica's point of view. and she's talking about how they had never had any sexual relations in the Oval Office. I don't know how much Monica lies. I tend to believe her more than most. There's no way that they didn't have. There's no way she didn't blow them in the Oval Office, or in the Oval Office, the Oval Office. Okay.

I do actually tend to believe her in, in this. is the reason. Those windows are very visible. Oh, and there's cameras. Huh? It's probably bugged. I would imagine. And here's the thing. There's one door of people that will be coming in. At least the studies access, I think, is just right off. And there's a bathroom as well. But there's a hallway that just then goes back. And no one can access that. So that's, they're putting doors between them. Okay. So if someone comes in and doesn't see him in the Oval Office,

they're not going to be like, oh, hey, unless it's Hillary or something, and go open. They're going to be like, Mr. President, are you here? And then he'll be like, uh, one moment. Oh, no, no. Yeah, I'm coming. I'm not coming. Also, how was it never Hillary? These are happening at pretty good rates.

There's no way that Hillary's knocking on the door. This, again, goes to what was their relationship like? Maybe they just didn't want to be around each other that much. True. You got to admit, if there has been a conversation about the apologizing, Joan shit that's going on right now. She is probably like, listen, I'll go to, I'll go on shows, I'll fucking vouch for you

and all that kind of stuff, but I want my own space in the fucking White House. I'm also so glad that you brought that up. We're five, six encounters in at this point in time, and this is all going on actively in the White House

against the backdrop of Bill Clinton being civil, or, in a civil suit with Paula Jones. Yeah. That's why this is definitely a pattern. This is why this is not the first time that this is something like this has happened. Maybe the first time that it's happened since he's been president, probably not.

But this is just, again, this is where you have to do the, and I think this is the biggest thing that the public perception is that we're going to talk about kind of while all this is going on is the end result is people looking at the things that are more. moral and the things that are physically tangible as far as what's good for the country. And when people are like, I don't, the moral shit, I don't agree with anything. But fuck, it's hard to argue with gas. That's a buck. Like, it's that point. And here's the thing, too. People, no matter who they are, no cheaters.

That's not unfamiliar. Especially if you're a guy, here's the thing that kind of sucks, is you'll, have friends that you know have cheated and there's this loyalty aspect to where you do lose respect for that person but they're still your friend and it's not your story to tell and it's not your story to tell or anything like that and so when you're also with the gas pumps and it's a dollar fucking gallon you're just like fuck i guess and this was a slogan it wasn't actually official but blow jobs are better than no jobs unemployment was like at historic lows and And so that's the thing is during this whole investigation that the Republicans and everyone are going to launch, they're under the assumption that this is what is going to be the thing that turns people off.

People like fucking money and people like having money. And if someone can say, I don't respect the artist, but the art he's making as far as the economy and all that kind of stuff, I can't argue with it. Besides, it's just some blowjobs. Last president in our history to run a budget surplus. I believe he did it three years in a row. I believe the last president to ever make payments on the national debt, he had the country humming. We had growth in our economy.

The dot-com boom. Yeah. He came in at a great time. While at the same time, he's tackling social issues. He's reaffirming female health care. When you look at his office, and that's, I think, what we were kind of talking about today, he had so many women that were working around him. He was able to kind of help put women in this federal government workforce at a rate that they never had been put in before.

And meaning that in a sense of like, he, it's weird. This is again, art separated from the artist type thing. He was bringing in women like Monica that he probably like, to look at. But then he had people like his, like, Deputy Chief of Staff. Janet Reno. Yep. Janet Reno is the AG and all that kind of stuff where he had them in these rules.

So, fuck, he's like he's a progressive fucking pervert. While at the same time, I cannot stress this enough from his point. Slick Willie was a very smart man. I guess is. He's not dead yet.

How strong or his urges that he's willingly hooking up with a white house it's just a lack of here's the thing man it's while he's on civil trial a hundred percent that's what i'm saying is it's it's that thing where just because you're good at something doesn't mean you're good at everything and the thing that he wasn't good at was keeping his dick in his pants that was his kryptonite his dick his Cryptonite was attached to him, and he didn't have self-control over these urges. In fact, March 31st of 96, this is fucking Easter Sunday.

Lewinsky ends up visiting the president in the Oval Office suite. Leads, again, to more fooling around everything. But isn't the like Easter celebration going on at the White House at this point? Yeah, potentially. One before this, did we cover February 19th? What happened on February 19th? February 19th, we have a conversation about relationship status that I don't know if Bill Clinton was really up for, but I think at this point in time, Monica was trying to define the relationship, which again is an insane thing to say about the president of the United States that's also married and you're trying to define a relationship. Yeah, there is a huge amount of naivete.

that goes into that to think that normal conversation about where you are in your relationship somehow applies to this situation despite that the married thing is one thing. I think that she would have that relationship with whatever that dude's name was in California, whatever. Yeah. But against the backdrop of the presidency makes it seem like such an insane thing to have as far as the conversation goes. And it's not that they're just having these meetups.

They're also talking on the phone quite a bit. Billy liked himself some of that sweet. Sweet phone sex. I wonder if he's busting on the phone. I think he probably was. I don't know why that creeps into my mind so much. Because he hasn't busted. Yeah, I guess that's true.

The people want to know. So go ahead. This relationship status that they're having, Monica's basically asking him, like, what am I to you? And Bill fires back with a line that can really only be summed up and just an immaculate workaround. Bill says, I've cherished the time that we've spent together. Monica, Monica, you know that I cherish the time we've spent together.

It's horrendous. It's a terrible answer, and this isn't helping Lewinsky out at all. He is not, first of all, he is not forward-thinking enough in this specific type of situation. She's saying this to him, and he's like, oh, she's. I never thought this was this, which I mean, where a 22, 23-year-old woman would fall in love with me. Oh, fuck, how did I not see this coming? I haven't been coming and I didn't see this coming. I cherish our time together.

Of course, she doesn't fall for that line because it sounds like something that a boss would say to an employee. She is still insanely, she is in love with him. Yeah. She is insanely infatuated. We haven't really talked a lot on the fact of where, where someone would be at that age in this position, where their head is at. She is smitten kitten.

He is all she's thinking about. She feels that their relationship is a real, real relationship as if Hillary's not even in the picture. And she gets upset when Bill doesn't call. And you said you were going to call. I was going to call, but then, you know, what the fuck shit? And at the same time, there is a delusion

to even the asking of what are we like once you what's the answer you want once you get out of office once I get out of office I'm going to divorce Hillary we'll be together like hold on but that's what she would want to hear and she'd be like fuck yeah that's exactly what I was hoping you were going to say totally believable

can you speed that up can you just do it and then we can get married and I can be first lady Bill pulls a special card out of his pocket that not a lot of people get to pull out. He pulls out the dead soldier card. And once he realizes that Monica's not falling for this cherished bullshit, Bill leans on it. He goes, you know, Monica, I had just gotten word earlier today that we just lost our first soldier in Bosnia. And that was something that I did. I sent that soldier to Bosnia to die.

And Monica's thinking to herself. And she says this in the documentary. like Bill just shared some very intimate feelings with me. This does mean that he cares for me, that he's willing to share this with me. Not thinking that in Bill's mind, I'm sure as he's saying that, he's thinking, we haven't been in a room this long together without my dick in her mouth this long. What do I have to say? Dead soldier.

And it works. Monica immediately warms right back up to him. She goes over. She gives him a hug. She thinks that he's buried. his soul when really I don't know if a president ever takes to heart losing a soldier as sad and callous as that is. They know what's going on when they send soldiers to war. You'd really hope to retain enough of that humility despite being around that so often

that that would still be something that would have an impact on you. That's the hope. Yeah. So around this time, the Deputy White House Chief of Staff named Evelyn Lieberman, she's the primary official who kind of like finally sniffs this out there were word from you know there's secret service people that see her going down the halls and going in they can't say shit but she's hearing about this stuff as well and she's also noticing that Lewinsky's spending an unusual amount of time hanging around the west wing the oval office and in april of 96 she's like you know what even if something wasn't going on this is too i know bill and i know what's going to happen if it's not already happening.

Yeah. So we're reassigning her to a job of the Pentagon to get her out of here. Because this is where Bill's at. If I cut off the proximity, this thing will not continue. Bill's a creature of convenience. If there's no one here within the proximity

to service him, he'll just either go service himself or he'll just be grumpy for a few days. He's like a panda walking around in the White House. He's just staring at the walls. He's walking around. Look at the picture. He walks out and looks around, looks down the hall, and she walks past him.

What you're looking for, Bill? Oh, nothing. Listen, have we checked in at the Pentagon and stuff going? I should probably go down to the Pentagon and see if things are good there, right? We got a war going on. I think I need to go down and see my guys. But, I mean, she was even transferred over there citing inappropriate and immature behavior and for being where she wasn't supposed to be.

Yeah, and there's points in time where Bill somehow has a moment of clarity, or he's probably told by somebody else that's sniffing around this. Huh? Not post, not clarity. No, not post not clarity at all. Do you think, okay, deep thinking time. Okay.

Okay. Bill doesn't bust during these interactions, correct? He finally does, we're going to get to it. But at that point, there hasn't been that moment, and I'm not blaming this, but I'm just saying that there is a time. That's why post-net clarity is a thing. Or do you think had that happened earlier, he would have been like, oh, fuck. Oh, this is not a good idea.

There are times when Bill tries to kind of call this off. But as you say, being a creature of habit, he just always comes back. And they have one final talk before she gets, I guess it's after she finds out that she's being transferred to the Pentagon, where her and Bill are having a conversation. And Bill's talking about how it's not right, about how this wasn't his deal. decision and Monica is saying well you have to be able to do something and bill's trying to explain it to her is we have a re-election coming up i need to be on my game i know you have your game but at the same time i got to get some nuts busted somewhere else so i can go out there and i can be slick willy

on the on the podium yeah and he says i promise you once all of this is done and i'm re-elected i will bring you back into the white house you're not going to be in the desert for long out there at the Pentagon. She believes him. And I don't know exactly how true this was. I never heard her say it, but I heard it in a couple different times. She said that she would make her return to the White House

as the secretary to the president of blowjobs. Yeah. So this was, and I don't know if your dates conflict with mine, but April 7th, this is two days after Lewinsky was reassigned from the White House to the Pentagon. So there's been a time of notification. She might be back at the White House grabbing her stuff or something like that. But as she returns to me, Clint privately in the study, this ends up being their like final physical encounter before they have like this 10 month hiatus from any of their actual meetings to fool around together.

I mean, they're still having phone sex. They're still talking on the phone. I believe this is the cigar incident. Possibly. I heard that happened after some movie. night that she had shown up at in the White House? It could have possibly been the reason that she was there, something like that. Yeah.

But basically the cigar incident, which is in depositions and is in the Star Report, yeah, Bill, this is a turn when, hey, listen, I really don't have a lot of experience, pleasure, and women. And so I'd like to just try to stick this cigar up your pussy and ends up doing it, then taking the cigar and putting it in this humidor. well, I think to himself, oh, man, I can't wait to smoke this pussy's cigar later. The way that I had heard it was after he pulled it out of her puss, he put it back in his mouth and he looks there and he goes, tastes good. Are you being serious right now? Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah.

Again, this is a guy that also allegedly asked a lady to kiss his penis. That's right. So he's not. That's right. I didn't do that, did not. He's just not that smooth of a guy, it seems like, but somehow. So here's the other thing, too. That cigar got smoked.

Oh, for sure. Unless, do you think he's still hanging on to it? Oh, man. Talk about memorabilia. Yeah. That would be a hot ticket item if it ever had auction and it could be proven. Can you imagine? Bill dies.

They're going through his information. They find a secret deposit box. It has nothing in it but one travel humidor that has one cigar. And one cigar. Nobody asks what it is. Everybody that sees it's like, that's a cigar, and everyone's like, yep, we know. Yeah.

But yeah, so that incident, that did happen. Oh, yeah. And there's so much of this stuff that's just kind of beyond belief. And again, because this is against the backdrop of a civil lawsuit for sexual harassment when he has this going on, while the people in his orbit are astutely aware that they're... Are actively trying to keep his dick from sabotaging the White House. And they keep seeing this paid young intern come walking into his office. Whatever.

There's Pizza Fridays in the bullpen wherever they are. She's talking to Bill on the phone. And Bill's like, oh, pizza Fridays. Why don't you bring me in a slice? She's showing up with a plate with pizza on it. Betty Curry's just sitting there fucking pressing the button, opening up the door. And she's walking in there with pizza.

And Bill's gnawing on his pizza, probably talking to somebody on the phone. She's blowing it. That's what's going on in the White House. I know there's been some crazy shit that's going on in the White House. This has to be one of those times where everybody has to take a step back and be like, is everybody else seeing this? Is this when the ghost of JFK is looking down being like, this is the office I always dreamed of? It's everything I thought it could be.

You're finally using this place, right? Nobody's used this office correctly since I died. I remember when me and Bobby were tag team in Marilyn Monroe in the Oval Office. We could have been using the study the entire time. Okay, so we're going to jump over to the Pentagon Public Affairs Office during the summer of 1996. So we're going to follow them on and come for a little bit. Now, Linda Tripp, Linda Tripp at this point is a 46-year-old career civil servant who had been released from the Clinton White House. Now, this kind of also ties back to what was the attorney or the deputy guy's name?

Victor Wasn't it Vernon? No, no, Vernon was the fixer or whatever it was. Victor was the guy that shot himself.

She had worked with him within the White House and was the only person that she had really had any admiration for within like the Clinton. Vince Foster.

Vince Foster. Sorry, yeah, Vince Foster. And after he died, she instantly thought that he had been killed by the Clintons. She served him

his last lunch. Oh, really? In his office before he went So she ends up transferring over. She's got an extra grind against the Clintons. But for some reason, she is obsessive enough about it to have a bunch of pictures. Not like, you know, the picture that you see in federal government buildings where it's like the picture of the current president.

She has like multiple pictures of Bill Clinton on her desk. And she's working in the same department close to Monica. So as she's working with Monica, Monica is a completely distraught. 23, 24 year old that basically is going through a breakup with her boyfriend as far as she's concerned and comes across Linda, sees all these things and it's like, oh my God, do you like Bill? He's so handsome, right? And she's like, I actually used to work in the White House. And she's like, oh, yeah, I bet he would love you. And kind of just plays the part of this mentor, you know, this kindly older woman who's providing this young girl, motherly figure to like vent to and talk about

things. She's not naming Bill. She's calling him handsome and all this stuff. So Linda's not putting it together at this point. But eventually during this, you know, confidant type relationship, Monica starts to open up about her secret boyfriend in the White House. These late night phone calls that she's now having with Linda, you know, talking about. sharing her problems, all this kind of stuff, she's now talking about her interactions, the gifts that she's receiving. And then eventually it comes out that

she is having this affair to Linda with Bill Clinton. Linda Tripp sucks. That's putting it mildly. Linda Tripp was a holdover from the Bush administration. She worked very well with them. She was a pretty big fan of the Bushes. She didn't think a whole lot of Clinton and I'm getting up to this point still.

There's really no reason to think a lot of them. She'd taken this job at the Pentagon, I guess, had been promoted to this job at the Pentagon to make more money. After the death, she reaches out to a woman named Lucy Ann Goldberg. And if you ever see Lucy Ann Goldberg, she, to me, looks pretty much exactly like the baby from dinosaurs. Yeah, like not the mama. Yeah, that one with a wig on and some glasses. Oh, what kind of wig? Like a blonde.

Oh, okay. Yeah, there's a character from The Incredibles named Edna Mold, who's got really big, thick glasses, and everything I was wondering if she kind of maybe looked like her. I took a picture of her on the documentary. Yeah, she's a... Oh. She's...

She is a... She's got striking features. She's a literary... Puring into my fucking soul. Yeah, she's a literary... She's this kind of gossip mover where she's feeding information to the tabloids that's going on. And after the death of, why can we not remember this guy's name? Vince.

Yeah, Vince. She's reaching out to Goldberg and she's saying, hey, I think that there's something here. I kind of want to have a conversation with you about maybe writing a book about Vince. And Goldberg's on board. The way that Linda Tripp tells this story is the first time that she had reached out to Goldberg. She wanted to write a piece on the history of the presidency, and Goldberg kind of shot it down. The way that I've heard it explained way more times than just from Linda Tripp. And Linda Tripp is a very unreliable narrator in this story.

And you'll see why very shortly. But Linda kind of gets cold feet because she knows if she releases this stuff about Vince and kind of tries to finger the Clintons as far as being the murder. of Vince dying under extenuating circumstances. It's all self-serving too for her because her, it's all self-preservation as well. She has a hunch. She can't write a book because she can include some information, but there's nothing concrete.

It's all speculation, which then she will get sued for liable or whatever it is. She doesn't believe that this will come out to make enough money for her to lose her like $100,000 a year government job that she had. So at this point, what's stopping her, it's not because she uses this excuse for the stuff that we're going to discuss of being a civil servant and of wanting to fight corruption and all this kind of stuff. But the reason that she didn't do that in the first place is because she wouldn't have made enough money off the book. And because she would have been going against the current administration, she would have lost her job in the government. So as she already has the...

this contact with this person who's not in Maryland, mind you, but they're actually in New York. So that's going to come back into place here in a little bit when we start talking about what she gets up to. Prior to Tripp being let in on Monica's Little Secret, in February of 1997, we've already cleared re-election. She should be coming back to the White House any day. I believe she goes and watches Bill do a radio address in the White House and she wants to be fancy for this. She stops off at the gap, which if we're talking late 90s, the gap was cool at that point in time.

They make fantastic jeans. I own several pairs. I was actually after that happened, I was joking around with my wife, and I was telling her, next time I go and to buy some pants, and I go to pay for him, I'm going to drop some knowledge on the cashier and be like, did you known that the Bill Clinton jizz dress was actually a Gap product? You're like, share that with your next customer. A little bit of history for you.

She buys herself a wonderful navy blue dress from the gap. Buddy, it's the first time in like 10 months that they're going to have a chance. And she has got to, you know what? At this point, you know what she's also said to herself? No more of this not finishing bullshit. I got to lock this down. I got to show him that I'm the Nancy Reagan. of this bitch. She'd been watching some

early internet 1.0 tutorials. Yeah, February 1997, Monica shows up in this navy blue dress from the Gap and watches the radio address and she comes into the room. I guess probably the Oval Office at this point

in time, Betty goes ahead and brings in a couple little gifts and he gives her this book, it's a Walt Whitman book, I believe it's called Leaves of grass. And it was, I believe Monica was the one that said this. It was

the same book that he had given Hillary when they started dating. So for her, but again, what is she going to see that symbolically as? She's the heir. She's the new girlfriend. Yeah. It's a new love interest. He wants to show his love.

He also goes her... Fuck, Betty, why did you buy this fucking book? He also... You're a fucking scarf. He brings her a blue, or he buys her a blue hat pin. I don't know what the fuck a hat pin is. It's a pin that goes on a hat. Women used to wear, you know, the big hats with the big brims. It would be a pin

that goes on the hat. It just looked like it was long though. Yeah, I mean, you could just put it up like that. The bigger the pin, the higher social standing is. Okay. I just, I assume like a Kentucky Derby style accessory of a hat. They exchanged pleasantries

for a while and finally Monica gets back down to business. She drops to her knees and we finally get Clinton and Lewinsky's first bus together. Unfortunately for Bill, part of this bust ends up on the Navy Blue Gap dress. It seems like, did you look at pictures? Yeah.

Seems like the full bust ended up on the dress. So this was at a point in time, like I say, this was, when I'm learning about all of this kind of stuff, I'm nine years old. I'm not so naive to say that I didn't know what oral sex was at nine, which I don't know if that's an indictment on me. but I understood that. I knew what a blowjob was. Completely didn't understand what semen was.

It was a bridge too far away. I knew about the penis in the mouth, but I didn't understand how that concluded. You knew where Disneyland was. You knew that people were traveling to Disneyland. You just didn't know what Disneyland was. So every single time they talked about the semen-stained dress, I didn't know what the fuck they were talking about.

I kept seeing the splattermarker. I was like, what is that? And my nine-year-old brain is trying to, process. Yeah, how that all goes. And now I look at him like, ah, that's what nine-year-old you was missing out on. It was just a bunch of depravity after this. She had said in the interview that after she had left the office, she had no idea that it was there. She went to dinner that night. Yeah. And nobody had told her anything about what was on her dress. Like you say, this wasn't a small stain. So I don't know if the restaurant was dark, but they did not see

the bust on the dress. She goes home and for some reason she ends up not cleaning this dress. We'll find out a little bit later on as she's finally letting Tripp into her orbit about her and Clinton's affair. She's telling him and Linda Tripp starts salivating over this whole thing because this is something that she knows will be salacious enough to be able to write about, probably something that's going to take Clinton down. And she has kind of this, one way, I guess, look into their relationship that you know Bill's not telling anybody about. And Monica's finally confiding in Linda Tripp. And this, I have to say, is the first time where I can look at Monica and be like,

you're not playing by the rules of what's going on here. Because, again, an affair is an awful thing. It's not good on anybody that's involved. Once you're in it, you've got to know. you just can't be telling people you're having an affair with the president of the United States and I understand that that has to be

one of the harder secrets to keep It is but it's Okay again it's being naive That's being a naive person To think that You know you you got to get like You know you trust easily when you're younger And everything and then you have to get burned

Yeah In order to not to put walls up and everything I think in this situation She's just in a mindset where there should be walls and maybe she knows to usually put those up but she needs someone to talk to about this and I think that she had talked to some other friends about it

and they were aware of what was going on but not to the depth that Tripp was because Tripp was also actively trying to kind of like prompt the information like Tripp wanted to hear this information that's sort of the other thing too you're stealing from the store or maybe don't tell one of your coworkers.

Like, if you're going to tell your friends, that's fine. Go tell your friends. Handle all that business outside of it. Anybody that can bring down whatever you have going on with the president, maybe don't tell them. And I get that you're spending most of your time with them, and it's probably nice to be able to gossip with somebody at work. I don't enjoy that.

But I'm sure some people do. I think some people do, but also a receptive ear, if you don't really have anyone else that's willing to lend that, you might let down your walls and trust a little bit more than you should. And here's the thing, too. She could see her at work. She's having a bad day. She's like, do you want to talk about it? They talk about it a little bit at work. And she's like, why don't you call me later tonight? We can talk about it more.

It just takes that. And again, this is a 20, early 20s girl who is in a fucking insane position. Like, think about that. She is a 23-year-old girl who is the mistress to the most powerful fucking man on the planet. Yeah, it's like the amount of like that's a weird crazy balance of like oh my God that's he picked me giving you such an inflation of like value. But at the same time, a bunch of like self doubt about the relationship itself because he's being cagey about it and it's just blow jobs in the office and you guys can't be together or anything like that.

It's I don't know. And I think that's why it's much easier to look back on it now and hear her talk now. of being like, you had your part to play in this and you definitely were not smart about doing this. But at the same time, there were so many other people who knew better that could have just been like, no, no, no, no. And the one person that should have known the best

was the person that was keeping you in this. Yeah. Yeah, the one guy that had the most to lose was somehow just not able to stop. But at the same time, he's not fulfilling his promise of bringing her back to the White House. So eventually when her frustration spills over,

the first conversations that Monica's having with Tripp is about how he had promised her this job to come back to the White House and that he's not fulfilling that. And then Monica's going back and filling in all of these little details telling Tripp about what kind of a great guy he is and about how awesome he is and about everything that she can think of.

She has a... Lewinsky has a hell of a memory on her. And she tells Tripp, God damn near everything. Well, here's the thing, too. She's had a lot of reminders about that. And her memory is insanely documented

in various forms. And it doesn't take long after this last February 28th, jizz dress situation. March 29th. So we're 97 again. This is kind of the final documented physical encounter. The two meet in the Oval Office study.

They do their thing. A little heavy petting. A little heavier petting. A little oral sex to completion. So she's figured it out. And at this point, this is, again, the final physical encounter. Because in May of 97, Clinton informs her that they need to end the physical side of their relationship. After this, I mean, they still do continue to speak over the phone, having phone sex periodically.

after the physical relationship ends. And their communication after that also kind of shifts from Lewinsky and Clinton's relationship to like moving Monica on and then trying to find something for it. So the final tally ends up being 11 distinct sexual encounters over this 16 month period. and it ends up being primarily her performing oral sex on him in either the hallway bathroom or the study off of the Oval Office. There was zero penetration. No, no, he did, but I mean, as far as, listen,

it's going to come back into play. And we can talk about the distinction between that kind of stuff, but they are both very adamant that there was zero intercourse. Yeah, well, they had to be at that point in time. And again, maybe I, it, whatever age I am and don't quite understand. I mean, I figure that intercourse is just the blanket term, right? No, I think it has to be P to V.

Okay. Or P to A. I assume like oral intercourse, like that. I think that's just why it's more known as oral sex. I just figured that intercourse had to end in a bust. No, I don't think so. Okay. Because what do you mean?

You can do a hand job to a bust. Is that not intercourse? No. Really? Really. Hmm. Tell us what you think. So... Watch for the latest poll.

So the interesting thing is Tripp sees another opportunity. And Tripp goes back to Goldberg. And Goldberg answers the phone kind of at a haphazard way. And Goldberg ends up hearing this story that Linda Tripp is spinning her.

And Goldberg has a great idea. Goldberg says, why don't you go ahead and record her phone calls? This book would sell like hotcakes or you having the exclusive of all the details because it'll eventually come out. But you can't do shit unless you actually get all of the information, solid dates, the person that did it and their account of it and everything like that. She's like, well, how am I supposed to do that? She's like, oh, just record your guys' phone conversation. She's like, can you do that? She's like, fuck yeah, I do that all the time.

she's like oh you sure you don't need both people both persons consent they're like nope you only need it's it's one person consent she didn't ask that i don't think yeah um but the best part is goldberg you can hear their interaction as they're talking and i don't remember if this is the goldberg interview but she says that linda tripp has no idea how to record a phone conversation she goes go down to radio shack yeah i'm sure one of those nice young men can show you what you need and how to do this Like that was, it's such just a shock back in time to when Radio Shack was an actual place that you would go to for like your electronics needs. Yeah. That's nostalgia.

And I also think too that Gold or Goldberg was probably kind of thinking about it. And like if I could get this information, fantastic. But I'm not going to count on Linda to be able to maybe like to even be able to pull this off. No, but she's also getting her ducks in a row because she understands that there has to be a little bit of smoke before the fire of a book coming out. She gets a hold of the Newsweek reporter his name's Michael Isikoff and kind of starts dropping some hints that there's some things that are going to be going on

as far as an unnamed White House worker and Bill Clinton are having a sexual relationship while fully knowing that Linda Tripp is trying to figure out how to record these phone calls. She ends up getting 22 hours of recorded conversation over three months. I don't know if I have 22 hours of conversation on a phone in the last 10 years?

Yeah, I want to talk about how those taped conversations went because she knew what she was going to be asking about because they'd had the conversations before in a much more naturally occurring way. So some of the crazy-ass shit that she says to Monica to try to get her to document this stuff is, I don't know if it was on the phone or they were having lunch one time. She's like, you should make like a graph or like a charter,

like a spreadsheet. And she's like, why the fuck would I make a spreadsheet? She's like, well, like, if you're trying to figure out why he's like hot and cold, like during interactions and how he acts a certain way at a certain time, maybe you can figure out like some type of pattern of when you should try to see him. And she's like, oh, I don't know. And so I don't know if she does exactly that. But during some of their phone conversations, she's trying to lead it in a way that Monica will be upset about something.

like he's not bringing me back to the White House. He promised he was going to do that. She's like, I know that is so horrible. Like remember what, like after all that you've done from, remember what you did for him back in May of 1997? And she's like, what? And she's like, what? I can't even remember exactly what happened because, you know,

we've talked a lot. But tell me what it was back in May 97 that you did for him. And so through, and it takes 22 hours just to get enough of this information to where she then feels confident where she can be like, oh, now I can. turn all this information over to my publisher and we can do all this stuff. And there's even two meetings that Lewinsky and Clinton have that are like what they consider the non-physical meetings. They met twice more in person in late 1997, one on August 16th.

They kissed a little bit and talked, but Clinton turned down an attempt at further stuff. And then I believe there was one where maybe they met to like exchange like a late Christmas gift. Yeah, she visited the White House for what would be her final face-to-face with Clinton, and that's when he gave her some late Christmas presents. Was this when she gives him the tie? I don't know if it was when she gave him the tie. But jumping back just a little bit, so December 5th, 1997, Paula Jones attorney officially submits a witness list. And that witness list includes someone that they thought, and this is part of, again, the Paula Jones case, the name appears Monica Lewinsky.

And all the backdoor dealing that's going on, just to put a little bubble in this 22 hours, the blue dress becomes a point of conversation. Because she's going over this story again, and Linda goes, where is the blue dress? And she goes, it's sitting in my closet. She brings it up to her, and she's like, I got to go get that thing clean because I want to wear it

like the next time I, or there's an event or something. something that he might be at that I want to wear that dress. And she's like, don't clean it. She's like, why not? She's like, that's an insurance policy. Put it in a bag and just save it. Besides, you look a little chunky in that dress. And she had told her that she looked big in the dress to try to dissuade her from cleaning it. Just terribly manipulative.

As they are having the conversations and Monica's saying, I need to get out of here, I need to leave Washington, D.C. she's starting to kind of drop some hints about having her mom is kind of up there part-time ironically enough monica lives with her mom in Washington d.C. in the um oh uh the white uh fuck the watergate complex yeah the watergate complex in the apartments same watergate complex that the watergate break in happens in um and monica's talking about having this application that Vernon Jordan helped her get

with Revlon in New York and she's talking to her about what to put on the application and different things like that and Linda Tripp is making these mental notes and these recordings about Vernon Jordan the same Vernon Jordan that helped Hubble

get those consulting contracts when he wasn't working turning state's evidence and it becomes this kind of thing where Linda Tripp is looking at this and eventually we'll talk about how kind of Star ties this all together and pulls some pretty fucking big bullshit. But Tripp is feeding all this information back to Goldberg. Goldberg is starting to run this information through Isikov to start to build this story.

While at the same time, she's starting to get in contact with people that are the lawyers that are representing Paula Jones. So as Goldberg is kind of passing these things through, she's telling Linda, trip you're going to have to get subpoenaed here you go and speak to the representatives that's right that was the plan because if paula would have just tried to come out with the information or release it to a news outlet she had no immunity and i think it came out after the recordings had been done that in maryland when they were looking into the legality of it they were like oh small thing so all of these recordings under Maryland state law have been acquired illegally, which means that they cannot be

used if we will get sued and then we will not be able to publish anything because of that. So she's like, that was where all my money was going to come from. She's like, that's where my power is. And so basically, Goldberg was like, what we need to do is you can't go to Kenneth Starr and present this to them. But what you can do is we can make it to where their team subpoenas you, and then you are forced to turn over any information in exchange for immunity. You tell them. You still have access to be able to then write the tell-all that has all the other details from your perspective, and it'll still make you money.

You spill your beans to Paula Jones's lawyers. They subpoena you. You spill the beans to them publicly, they can subpoena Monica Lewinsky. And during this whole chain of events, as Bill Clinton is going in to meet with his lawyers and he's looking at the witness list for this upcoming deposition that he has to give in the Paula Jones case, he sees Monica Lewinsky's name on the witness list. Now, this doesn't mean that she's going to be subpoenaed. She hasn't been subpoenaed. She's just simply, as part of the discovery of this case, Bill Clinton's team is being

trying to find this information for all the witnesses that they're going to use and her name pops up. Now that doesn't mean that she's going to have to come in and give testimony or anything like that. It just means that in the building of the case, they are literally writing down any woman's name that is at contact with Bill Clinton. Of course, they're going to have information

about any interns that had been in the White House that they can question simply even as character witnesses if they need to. So nothing's been set in stone, but there's a fucking panic now because here's the thing. How did they even find out Monica had any type of relationship or anything like that

to where she would be somebody on this list. I'm sure Bill's looking at the witness list and he's going, no, no, no, Linda Tripp, ugh, Monica? Oh shit, what should you go on here? Uh-oh. Well, that all comes to fruition because on December 19th and 97,

Monica is officially served with a subpoena by Paula Jones' lawyers demanding her testimony and also that she turn over any gifts or things given to her by the president. In this subpoena, she's asked, she's basically given the questions that she's going, that will be centered around the deposition that she needs to give.

Is this when they give her the subpoena? Is this when Paula, they're scheduled to have lunch? This was prior to that. Because what happens after Bill sees her on the witness list? as he goes ahead and calls Monica. And he lets her know that she's on the witness list, which sends her into a panic. That's right.

And Bill floats the idea that instead of going in and testifying, what she can do is produce a written affidavit. And what happens actually before that, they have that face-to-face. Because they also talk about the Paula Jones stuff. She voices concern Monica does about, like, the hat pin being specifically listed in the subpoena. They knew about that because again,

fucking Linda gave them all that information. And then she took all that stuff, including the Christmas presents home. Later that afternoon that they met, Betty Curry actually drove over to Monica's apartment and picked up a box containing all of the gifts that she had given, that Clinton had given to Monica,

and took them to her own home and hit them under her bed. And this actually became, they found out about it. And this is one of the things that became kind of a core pillar of the, obstruction of justice charge that they file against him. I believe it was the call that set off the meeting with Linda Tripp because when Monica and Linda end up meeting up for lunch, they have kind of this panicked conversation.

And Monica says that Linda Tripp is basically telling her, if you lie, it's going to make me look like I lied and I perjured myself. And Monica's talking to her kind of telling her, hey, you got to be in this, in for a penny, in for a pound. If I go down, you go down. So you need to start kind of looking to fabricate what you're going to tell them. And she's so panicked as Linda Tripp goes to the bathroom that she believes that Linda Trips wearing a wire and she grabs Linda's purse and goes through it looking for a recording device. Linda was wearing a wire. She was wearing the wire. It wasn't in her purse. I know, but she's not crazy. No, she was right. She definitely. Because she's also, because they're there to

discuss the fact, the Paula Jones thing. Yeah. And she's pressing her for information about her relationship with Clinton when that's not what Monica's there to discuss and when Monica tries to steer the conversation back to the Paula Jones stuff and the witness Linda keeps trying to get her to steer back because her deal with this, the

Paula Jones people is that she's going to wear a wire and tried to get more information out of Monica. I don't know how they would have that sort of power and authority but I do think that at this point in time that this is also considered like when you look

back on it, what's one of the biggest complaints that almost everybody has about this? It's a gross overreach of the government to try to pry into somebody's like, I get that it's a civil case. Paula, I, Paula should have gotten way more money. I firmly believe

that, but at the same time, now they are for like the governmental money going in to try to figure out somebody's personal shit. And they're, I mean, and they're going deep. Yeah. And you have I actually think, and I might be a little off on this, I think she had already gone to the OIC.

She had already gone to Stars people on January 12th before this lunch because they would be the only people that could authorize wearing the wire. So here's kind of how I have it as the series of events, because I know that especially within the time frame of like December and then early 98, stuff happens very, very quickly in this. So December 5th, 97, that's when Paula Jones attorney submit the, witness list that includes a Monica. She's under Jane Doe number six. December 19th, Monica is served with a subpoena by her lawyers, by Paula Jones lawyers. December 28th,

that's the last face-to-face meeting with Clinton. So that's the exchange of Christmas gifts. They actually discussed the subpoena a little bit. That's when Monica talks about the hatpin. Betty Curry goes and gets the box. January 7th, so we're in 98 now. That's when Monica signs the sworn affidavit. the Paula Jones case that states explicitly, I have never had a sexual relationship with the president. And that was after the phone call they had when he was telling Monica, she's like, well, what do I say? Like, do I lie? And he's like, and he basically says there are ways to explain what we were doing. Like, what am I trying to say? There are ways to...

There ways to say that nothing happened without lying. Yeah. Yeah. And in his... he's thinking it depends on what they consider nothing it's the most political politician thing to say so and the guy that who's the fixture dude sorry uh that helps people get jobs at revlon oh uh vernon jordan jordan jordan so he also helps her like get this affidavit right where they want it to where it has the right word choice and all that kind of stuff monica thinks that signing this means she's legally off the hook she's not going to have to go live with a deposition or anything like that Now, after she tells Linda that she signed the affidavit that states nothing happened, now Linda's in a situation where Linda's fully aware that something happened.

If Linda has to testify, she is going to be perjuring herself if she doesn't agree with what Monica did. So to protect her ass, January 12th, Tripp walks into Ken Starr's office and basically gives them the 20 plus hours of the recording. things. The illegally obtained 20 plus hours. Correct. And part of that deal is going to be

immunity even though that they were completely illegally obtained. We're not using that as an excuse that this should have been dismissed or anything like that,

but there is just fuckery abound. Yeah. And this, no one is playing clean in regards to this. January 17th. So they are working

in fucking overdrive through all of these tapes and everything to try to get as much information as possible Clinton walks into a conference room in his lawyer's office in Washington in D.C. for his sworn like videotape deposition for the Paula Jones case. And he's walking in there. He's been trained and coached and whatever you want to say. Assuming he's going to answer questions about the 1991 Arkansas, the Excelsior incident and has no idea that just within the last five days, Jones lawyers have, been given all of this up-to-date information about Lewinsky and their relationship. So as Jones is questioning him, kind of starts him out about some of the Arkansas stuff.

It's going as Clinton expects it to. Jones's attorney. We're not skipping over January 16th, right? The Reds Carlton. Oh, no, go ahead. So when we talk about... Oh, this is the meeting. Yeah, we talk about fuzzy ways that the start.

Star Investigation get some feedback here. January 16th, there's this mall meetup that's set between Tripp and Monica Lewinsky. Lewinsky had just come back from the gym, so she was sweating and workout clothes. She's getting ready to move to New York because you got a job with Revlon. Yep. And Trip shows up late as Trips coming down the escalator. Monica looks behind her and sees these two men in black suits and realizes that they're two FBI agents. they sweep them both away to the Ritz Carlton Hotel to...

She knows at that point, too. Sorry, interrupt. Monica puts two and two together. Because at this point, she really has no idea because this infer... She just knows she's as a witness. She thinks it's because she's been hanging around the White House. She signed her affidavit. Again, she thinks she's clear. And as soon as, like, she actually kind of goes to hug Linda,

and Linda, like, kind of shakes her head, no. And then gestures back to the guys. And is trying to basically, at that moment, moment, Monica says that she's like, I fucking knew exactly what this was. I knew she had set me up. I knew that she didn't know about the tapes or anything like that until she gets brought in, but she knows that Linda has fucked her over at this point. Fucking classic Linda move. And yeah, again, they're both swept up. This whole time Linda's being like, I'm doing this to try to protect you and all of this. And they did the same thing to me. You know, they caught me and I had to give them the information. And what happens to Monique at this point is you now have a emotionally vulnerable, now scared shitless because she's being pulled into a fucking room by the FBI. And to get all of this information that they're going to use for this next day interrogation or deposition of Clinton, they need to pull this out of her now to confirm all of this stuff that they've listened to on the tapes. They're kind of on the clock because they need to solidify. everything that Monica knows.

So when Jim Fisher goes to question Clinton during the deposition, they have basically proof in hand that he's perjuring himself as it's going along. Correct. They don't have to go back in fact check. Yeah. They know what the answer needs to be. And they're putting him in a position where he's forced to not answer, honestly. So they bring both Lewinsky and Tripp into this room that has an adjoining room on it in the Ritz-Carlton.

and Monica in the interview that I listened to is talking about how this is a beautiful, very fancy room that's filled with these men that are just standing there in suits. Two of them ended up being deputies, the OIC, the office of investigative counsel. Of independent counsel. A guy named Jackie Bennett and Mike Emick. And as they begin talking to Monica and kind of explain. what they're doing, Trip is going to be ushered into the joining room, or conjoining room, whatever the fuck that term is. And Monica looks at her and she goes, no, you're staying in this room with me.

And Linda ends up staying and they tell Monica to have a seat. She sits down and they basically lay the case out explaining that they have all of this evidence that she needs to come clean with. Just basically scaring the shit out of her. I've been questioned, I've allegedly been questioned by police a couple times in my life. I've hypothetically, yes. I've spoken to police in an investigative manner, probably close to right around Monica's age. Yeah. And I remember how terrifying that was for police. I can't imagine also having the background of knowing that I was having an affair with the president. Now this is

the FBI and this independent council that's sitting there about to grill me. Yeah, so she's sitting in this room, they start adding up what she did and start telling her the amount of time served for those types of things of how much time she's looking at should she not cooperate. And at the same time she's being told this information, she's just looking at Linda being like, this is, fuck you. Like you were my fucking friend and all of this. and they basically force her under duress. They're not allowing, I don't think they're letting her make a phone call to contact anybody or anything like that, right?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, so as this is playing out, and they're threatening her with 27 years in prison for witness tampering for perjury and all these different things. On her a sworn affidavit, right? Yep. Because they know they can say, we know that you light on this because of, eh, eh, Miss Tripp right here. She asked to call her mother. and when she has to call her mother, Emick goes on the attack.

And he looks at her and he goes, you're a big girl, you don't need to call your mommy. You're an adult. And she continues to push and she says, I need to call my mom. It's fucking intimidation tactics and scare tech, yeah. We need to get you to sign this immunity or this immunity paperwork that we have here

and then we need you to tell us everything. And she's saying, well, what if I don't? I'm saying 27 years in prison. Finally, she holds out until they allow her to call her mother her mother's up in New York at this point in time she's in the interview she's talking about how she's only getting about every third word out in between crying and it's

FBI Ritz Carlton questioning going to jail and finally her mom puts it together she's like I'm going to jump on a train I will be down there as soon as I can get down there and we'll get this all figured out as she's on the train or maybe before she gets on the train she calls back to California to where Monica's father is.

Monica gets in contact with a family friend who handles, I believe, medical malpractice named William Ginsburg. Oh, full Ginsburg. And as they're waiting for Monica's mom to get there, she ends up talking them into going back to the mall. They go back to this mall where they picked her up at. And one of the places that she says that they stopped out or stopped out was crate and barrel. and she's sitting there with these two FBI agents. Actually, it was both of the OIC deputies.

And she's pointing to these pillows that she loves and talking about this new collection that's going to be coming out. Probably in the most awkward way possible. Eventually, they end up having dinner in the food court together. And she says that she refused to let them pay for her meal because she was just so obstinate against trying to... She was telling me the time of time, and she's like, you guys, like, you got to fucking dress different.

You got to put some color on the outfits. Let's get you guys some ties in the like. We're not here for that, Ms. Lewinsky. She eventually does convince them to let her go to the bathroom. And so she's like, okay, I'm going to the bathroom. And she goes, finds a pay phone and tries to call Betty. Because she's trying to get a message to Clinton of her being picked up what's happening right now. And she can't get a hold of Betty.

And that's like the one person that she could call in this situation. So there was an attempt for her to try to get me. communication but didn't happen. I think she's also kind of starting to put two and two together that she realizes that they're pressing her so hard because Clinton's deposition is the very next day. Yeah. So she understands that they're on a timeline. Eventually when they lead the mall, they go back to the hotel room and they're just sitting

watching movies together. And this is something that Kenneth Starr points out when I believe they called this Operation Prom Night in the Kennes Star office. And I'm not shocked that they called it Operation Prom Night because somebody that was working inside of the OIC office at that point in time with Supreme Court Justice Ben, or Brett Kavanaugh. Oh yeah, and so that's when minors have sex, right?

The devil's threesome himself. The, I like beer. Supreme Court justice. Donkey dog. We used to crush beers. That fucking Matt Damon skit with him when he's like, look at this creepy calendar. Operation Prom Night is

kind of hit some hurdles because they're sitting there waiting for Marsha, Monica's mom to show up. Eventually, when she shows up, she comes in and the deputies basically lay bare to her every single thing that Monica's done. At this point in time, Monica's mom already knows about the relationship. She said that it's a horrific idea to marry the president. She also said that it was a horrific idea today, Belial after he was married and had a kid.

Monica never really listened to her parents. So eventually, Marcia is allowed to call her husband again. She calls her husband again. She says, hey, get in contact with William Gensberg. She calls Gino. Gens goes ahead and says, what do they have you there for?

What's the immunity deal? You need to ask them if you guys are allowed to leave. I would just go ahead and walk out leave. If they say that, they walk back. They speak to Jackie Bennett. Jackie Bennett says, well, we're not holding you here. This was just us trying to get this. information. Mother like, fuck you, dude. They go ahead and they walk out that night and they leave

together. Ginsberg ends up becoming her kind of primary counsel. Unfortunately. Yeah. As deputies are still threatening this 27 years for perjury and witness tampering, the very next day, as you were talking about, Clinton walks in for this deposition. prior to this happening at like 2 o'clock in the morning, I believe. Michael Isikoff, the guy that was writing for Newsweek, they had this story ready to go. It was completely cooked. They were ready to get it dropped the very next time that Newsweek dropped. And the editors of Newsweek were going through and like, we can't prove any of this.

There's nothing that we can do with it. This is going to ruin. It's too big of a risk. If it turns out to be false, it'll close down this paper. So they shelved that. And in shoving that, that bitch Lucy and Goldberg had been speaking to a guy named Matt Drudge. Now, I'm sure at some point in time somebody's heard, somebody they work with, make note of the Drudge Report. Drudge Report is a very biased piece of media.

Yeah. And Matt Drudge was the one that had started it. This was kind of again, and at 1.0, he has the Drudge report. he decides to run with it because his standing in the media isn't exactly glowing. Yeah. Because he's... He runs with this story and puts it out on the internet as far as not giving Monica Lewinsky's name, but saying that Clinton is having sexual relations with a former White House staffer

that is in the process of moving on. Apparently Clinton's team didn't have any idea that this happened. They didn't inform him before he goes in for this depended... deposition. And Jim Fisher's tactics, he's very confident that he's going to be able to nail Clinton. And the first few rounds of questioning, Clinton is just eating his lunch. I watch the deposition happen. And I always, like depositions and shit like that, for some reason, I just start looking at somebody and I'm trying to look for a tell. Yeah. And Clinton is the smoothest operator as they're going through and asking these questions. And,

And it's going very poorly, like I say, for Fisher. And then Fisher starts to ask about Monica Lewinsky. Yeah, he pivots pretty hard because Fisher ends up pivoting directly away. It's like this question was about Arkansas in this situation. Next question is, Mr. President, have you ever met Monica Lewinsky alone in the Oval Office study? Bill's still performing okay until they get to questions of gifts. And Fisher brings up the hat pin. And Bill is, you can finally start to see that,

I don't remember if it was his nose getting red or his eyes start to just kind of dart very slowly. You can tell that there's a little bit more of like, fuck, how did he know about this? I know that Vernon Jordan told me that Monica had that on her deposition. Did she do something wrong with the, that? He's trying to think of the logical answer.

And eventually, after he gets shaken up enough, he asked how or where these questions are coming from. And at that point in time, Jim Fisher knows exactly what he has. Jim Fisher lays out a definition, and this is the exact wording of it, for sexual intercourse. As determined by, like, whoever is handling the trial. Yeah, Jim Fisher. This is his determination. A person engages in sexual relations when they knowingly touch or cause contact with the genitalia anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of another person with an intent to arouse or gratify sexual desire.

And this is a legal definition that he's laid out under what he understands. To gratify sexual desire. And I think it alluded to that person, to a person. Yeah, with buttocks of another person with the intent to gratify or sexual desire. In the sense of it, it doesn't state which person, which is going to be something that. you know an attorney or a lawyer is going to look at and say, let's analyze every word of this to see how we can answer it. Bill steps up to the plate.

Definitely looks a little bit more shaken at this point. Looks right at Jim Fisher and he says, I did not have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky. And at that point in time, I imagine that everybody was just dancing and having fun in the Paula Jones camp because they knew. They knew what was going on. And at this point in time, Paula Jones had fired her initial to kind of counsel that she had taken on that were basically using her.

Like the local Arkansas guys. And the way that it was playing out was Paula Jones was going and doing these interviews that she was basically thrown to the wool. She wasn't polished. They weren't prepping her for any of this kind of stuff. And at one point, these two lawyers had come to an agreement to where Clinton's team would,

they would settle the case out of court. They were going to pay the full amount that she was asking for the $750,000. The one sticking point that they had was that she wanted an apology and Clinton's team said that there would be no formal apology or recognition of what happened. Because it's an admission of wrongdoing.

And Paula Jones is going on these talk shows in these interviews, and these people are just, eating her up, they're asking her why she would be willing to do this to the president, why she's not just settling. And she's saying because it's not about the money. It's about him recognizing what he did to me that day. And she comes across just listening to her, you can hear the hurt and her voices as she's talking about it and how she's trying to defend herself, but she's defending herself from this meek position of somebody who was a victim. There's no doubt in my mind that Paula

Jones, I don't think you have to say allegedly anymore, did suffer sexual harassment at the hands of Bill Clinton. And as this fight is going on, the new lawyers that she gets, we'll get to them in a second. But after the deposition happens, they pull a pretty crafty move because they call into a restaurant that has these big gigantic picture windows with a basically like a big table in front of them. And they rent out that part of the restaurant and they start ordering champagne and they're having a visual celebration while the paparazzi is standing outside taking pictures of them, which is like the ultimate mind fuck, I'm sure, for the Clinton Council seeing that and be like, wait, do they have something that we just don't know about?

Yeah. It plays into the psyche of what's going on so much in kind of the spin that's happening because not only has this fallen into the Jones lawyer's hands, this is in the OIC's grasp too. And if it's in the OIC's grasp, the council that was originally intended to investigate Whitewater has now kind of leapfrogged into something that has Dick to do with Whitewater. But they're looking at it as if he just perjured himself in another separate case, the Paula Jones case about Monica Lewinsky, can we try to relate it back to Whitewater to say that he perjured him? himself during the depositions for Whitewater.

Yeah. It's the most insane leap ever to say that he lied about having a consensual affair. Again, a problematic consensual affair. Because none of the questions are related to Whitewater. Yeah. They're just simply trying to establish the fact that, well, if you lied about this, he'd lied about Whitewater. The easy defense, and I'm not saying that it's a valid defense, but the easy defense on that is saying they're two completely separate things.

Why are you looking into this? Yeah. January 21st, Dredge Report finally names Lewinsky as Clinton's lover. As we were talking about, excuse me, Jones's new legal team was hired September 1997, a guy named Julian Campbell. Of course, they were both fronted and paid for and funded by a conservative legal group called Rutherford Institute. They continue this perjury case up to its completion.

it ends up getting completed November of 1998. I mean, it's an important case, but it really doesn't play a factor into much anymore so we can, I feel like, kind of wrap it up. It ends up in an out-of-court settlement November of 1998. They do end up paying out $800,000. They still refuse the apology, which has to probably be the worst part about the Paula Jones case besides the initial harassment, is that she fought for so long just to get this apology and the money didn't matter. After all of her lawyer fees, she ended up pulling away like

$200,000 from that. And then still had like bills and stuff like that that she had to pay as well. And she still never got the apology. There was still never an omission of what happened. You get it from us. Sorry, Paula. All she wanted. January 21st also coincides with the Washington Post, publishing a front page story, breaking the story basically to the mainstream press. So this is kind of the kickoff of the 24-hour just frenzy that officially begins. And if you lived through this and you're old enough to be paying attention to what was going on in the news, you are well aware that this was everywhere for quite a while.

Even after this thing ends, it is still, yeah, still definitely in like the public eye. Late night jokes, Saturday night live jokes, everybody that could take a shot at this was still taking shot. Yeah. Can you imagine when this happened? Late night writers were just like, oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. Monica. Do they even need us anymore? I mean, some of these jokes just write themselves.

We just need people to play it. Yeah, we're going to do all of these different skits with these fake Monica Lewinsky's. Dude, the skit with Will Thoroughless Saddam Hussein, Molly Shannon as Monica Lewinsky, and Bill, Daryl Hammond is Bill Clinton when they're on the three-way phone call. He's like, Monica, you never call me no more. And she's like, hey, Saddam. He's like, what's up, Saddam? Talk with Monica. And again, it's, you can't help but laugh at it because in a vacuum in that time period, that shit's cold. That's very funny.

Knowing what we know now, it's a bummer that they were exploited the way that they were. But God damn, was that good comedy back then. January 26th, this is when Clinton, going back to the start of the episode, when he delivers that famous Roosevelt Room address, the, did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. the very next day Hillary appears on the today's show with Matt Lauer defending, you know, Bill and attributing the scandal to a vast right-wing conspiracy that was targeting the administration since 1992. I mean, she's not wrong in the fact that like it's not a conspiracy because it's happening

and it's being funded by in a lot of these situations. But again, there's smoke. They're going to try to find the fire. So it's the same thing that either party would do in that situation. Oh, yeah. It's like the fucking Cold War. It's literally just that's what it is It's fucking East and West Berlin

Just shit going back and forth Trying to fight against each other I The conservative side The Republican side has to do this And I'm not saying that it's ethical I'm not saying that they should have done this I'm saying that Whitewater

Something that I'd like to know Something that I'd like to look into As far as how I rate my presidents I know that none of them are going to be honest I know that you know none of them are going to be anybody that anybody should ever really look at up to. At the same time, I do like to know going into the Paula Jones stuff. I'd like to know if this guy makes rash decisions because if he's in control of the nuclear football, I'd like to know that we're not going to have a drunken Nixon type night where he might blow up half the world. Those are things that I would like to know. As far as having sex with an intern, bad choice, very dumb man, probably important to realize how dumb Clinton was being led around. Not great judgment.

No, yeah, exactly. But I do not equate making poor judgment in having an intern fillate you and making that really poor, poor, you know, decision. I don't equate that with someone that's going to launch a nuke erratically. Yeah. Maybe that's just me. Yeah. There is something to it. But also, you can't really say it's just you because we're going to be talking about how this is accepted by the public later on.

it's in a situation where the Republicans have to do this because again, we have more midterms coming up. Clinton's doing a pretty good job. We're into the budget surplus years at this point in time. He's doing well with the economy. The United States is thriving at this point in time. And if they're going to be able to cede any sort of power back beyond what they have in the House and the Senate, they're going to have to pull some shit. In the midst of the first impeachment or in the midst of the impeachment, impeachment, I guess. His approval rating was between 63 and 70%. That was the highest he had ever had at that point.

I believe he left office with the highest approval rating of any president ever. Or maybe it was any president since Truman, I believe. So there's this huge disconnect in recognizing what people actually want the government to be doing at this point. The government and the Republican Party is convinced that they have to do something. They have to go full till. into this to go after him to try to find something impeachable, a high crime or misdemeanor in order to go ahead and get him out of office. They can't afford not to do this because this is a

shot that they'll never have again. The public perception is are you guys still fucking on this? We don't care about this. I just went and filled up my fucking truck for like $25. Don't fuck with the... I don't

give a shit. If this guy getting... And the reality of it is this. I don't care. Let him get more blowjobs if it makes gas come down. If it helps employment come down from the three or four percent that it is at the time, somebody find him someone that will suck his dick on a more consistent basis. Going back to what you said, one of those interactions, that was the joke that she had made.

She's like, when I come back, maybe I can come back as the secretary of presidential blowjobs. And he looked and he goes, uh, would you want to interview now? And she's like, are you fucking serious? And I mean, she even did it at that point. She did. Yeah. She interviewed.

She couldn't look at those puppy dog blues and want to disappoint Billy. He's so fucking slimy. But the public perception, even among, I think it was like 70% of the public were like move fucking on. Yeah. And this is during the impeachment trial. This is wild these things are going on. So this isn't like just leading up to it. This is just like, all right, are we done with it?

No, you guys want to do impeachment now, too. We got to fucking live through that, too. Didn't this start out as Whitewater? Whitewater was boring as shit. Paula Jones happened before he became the president, and now we're here? Are we still paying you guys to do this? Absolutely. One person that's not getting paid in April of 1998 anymore is Ginsburg.

Lewinsky ends up firing him after they had an immunity deal that was put in place. Actually, he gets fired in June because he was an idiot in April. So they had this immunity deal in place. And as you referenced earlier, the full Ginsburg, Ginsburg goes on a like one day media car wash and does every, I want to say it was seven different interviews in that day. He caught the fame bug. And he's talking about how great of a job he did and about how this is all going to go down

and basically just punching completely above his weight class. and all of a sudden they rule and Star puts his thumb down and they squash this immunity deal. So now Monica's back on the hook and during that Star interview that I was listening to, he was asked a question if he ever believed that they were going to go after Monica. And it was something that was talked about by those deputies that were in there talking to Monica in the root in the Brits Carlton Hotel room. who's going to prosecute a private citizen for lying about an affair? Yeah. And who's going to find that woman guilty?

Well, how are you going to find a jury that has no understanding or has no lived experience of themselves or someone they know having an affair? Not only that, but you're going to put someone, you're going to put a 23, 24-year-old girl up there. who all she has to say was he was the president and how many people can identify with having somebody in a position of power having a little influence over them in their decisions now magnify that by for most people a measurable amount

and you're going to have women sitting in that jury box and everything sitting there and being like yeah like there's a lot of fucking pressure And you're going to have guys going like, I think if I was president, no one would say no. Like there's going to, yeah, like you're not going to be able to do shit. And you're going to come off looking like they do anyway, like a bunch of fucking creeps and people who are going way too deep into people's personal lives to a just very disgusting degree. Kenneth Starr in this interview states that he never thought that it would get to the point.

He always thought that Monica was going to play ball. so he never ever thought about trying to try that case. Meanwhile, after this deal is broken down, the OIC goes straight back to work, and they are interviewing and subpoenaing all these people in Monica Lewinsky's life, old college friends, anybody like that that they think might have knowledge of this relationship.

Monica had said at one point that she had had a friend that she hadn't talked to in like the last three years that got subpoenaed while she was on vacation over in Japan. And had to fly back to the United States to give a deposition about Bill and Monica's relationship. Yeah. She said that they would pull her mom in for hours at a time to give these interviews. And finally, her breaking point was that she had seen her mom walking out of the interview that she had had on the news. And she said that her mom just looked broken.

And in talking to her mom, her mom was talking about. how she felt like she had made it through this battlefield and she had kept her composure the whole entire time and then one of these OIC deputies walks up and he puts his hand on her shoulder and he says that was rough and she just starts crying and I forgot this guy's name but he at this point in time when he sees this he ends up leaving the OIC

because he realizes that they've just taken this too far yeah and at that point too if you're thinking about this whole time Monica even admittedly so like in her biography has been all about trying to protect Clinton yeah she's never really felt like betrayed I mean in slighted ways and everything like that but she's never experienced that sense of betrayal enough to try to like betray him for self-preservation and I think this is the tipping point where it's not just about her now

and she it's going to be one way or another they already have the information realistically so she ends up agreeing to whatever deal they want. She's granted transactional immunity from federal prosecution in exchange for her full cooperation, her sworn grand jury testimony, and physical evidence.

And that includes her turning over the navy blue gap dress with the Giz stain on it to the FBI, who then on August 3rd, lab test confirmed that the semen stain on the dress does match the blood sample drawn from Bill Clinton. So this renders any previous test.

denying anything, the semantical details about it, they're in the fucking garbage at this point. It's one of the weirdest sentences that you could say was she passed over the gist stained dress. So she had ended up coming to this immunity deal after she had fired Ginsburg. She hires these Washington insider lawyers named Jacob Stein and proud Greek man Plato Cacheras. They signed that immunity deal July 28th, 1998. The dress is turned over two days later. or July 30th. And I believe it was a matter of weeks after that, the OIC shows up to the White House and they walk

into an office that is populated by Bill Clinton, the presidential doctor, there's another aid in there, I believe, and then these two OIC officers. And as the presidential doctor pulls the blood sample from Clinton, he makes this kind of turning move and one of the OIC officers think that it's a weird move and he yells at him and rushes over because he thinks that they're trying to swap the vials of blood and takes possession of the blood and then yeah like you say they run it they match the DNA and at that point in time I mean that's that's a slam dunk that's where it all goes um eventually it gets to a point where star needs to start matching up

sexual intercourse or sexual relations he doesn't need two no well he needs like two I'll give him two here yeah okay so at this point this is just

stars a fucking creep and I guess it shouldn't be surprising that he's doing even more creepy shit so he's like I need I need explicit it sexual details. So even to the point where he's like, I'm going to send in two

female investigators or whatnot, and I need you to get everything. Everything. Yeah. And so Lewinsky has to sit with these two investigators

and go through quite literally a play by play of encounters. What did you do next? And then what did he do to do? Where did he touch you? Under the bra, over the bra?

Did he touch you? Like, just all that stuff. Like, when did you? And did you, like, just the graphic details. It was enough to where, and all this stuff goes into the Star Report. Because he hasn't even turned this thing. He's still compiling all of this information. And enough to where when the Star Report comes out and he thinks he's fucking got it all figured out.

He's like, we should totally release this. It's got to be made. public and everything. And when the public does eventually look at this, everyone is like, why the fuck are you releasing this? Like, why do we need to know this information? Like, are you,

was this you beaten off to videotate or to these cassettes while you were listening to him or anything? Because this reads like, you're publishing fucking, like, what was the little small one that would have dirty stories in it? Penthouse had him, but there was another one

too. Uh, penthouse forum and yeah it was forum yeah that's what it acquainted to people like even the people they were thinking would want them to go out for this was like you're published in like this smut where our kids can fucking read it if i had to guess i think it would be called penthouse forum i didn't just have that it was a forum to discuss things right there yeah it was it sounded right i've never read a it just sounded so good yeah i figured that's what it sounded like well what if I told you that there was a potential alternate universe where maybe this doesn't happen?

I'm listening. In February of 1997, so before any of these blocks start to fall in 1998, Kenneth Starr announces that he is leaving the job early to take the position of Dean of the Justice Department at Pepperdine. And he gives this press conference. He says that he is, he feels like the investigation is in a good place. He knows that the people that he's leaving behind is these lead investigators will be able to wrap this case up. And again, this is prior to knowing of the Linda Tripp knowledge. He's planning on walking away from this investigation, not because he thinks that they're going to be able to wrap this up.

because at this point in time in February 1997, they don't have dick. They have absolutely nothing. Kena Star is trying to take an early exit away from this. I'm assuming here when I say this, but I'm assuming this, knowing what they have at that point in time, he wasn't going to sit on a stinker. He wasn't going to release a report, Sands Monica Lewinsky, Sands perjury charges or anything like that because they didn't have anything on water. It would have been an embarrassment for all of the time. that was spent doing this and all the work and money that went into it. Yeah.

So after he makes this announcement, he goes back and he's talking to the lead investigators at the OIC and they say, well, if you go, we're going to go. And he goes, no, I need somebody to release this. They're like, release what? Yeah, no, no, dude. You're the star of this. This is going to be called the Star Report. This is literally your thing. And if we're being completely honest, none of us want our fucking names on this if this is how we have to launch it.

So because of that pushback and because Star realizes that if they leave, this is just going to fall apart and there's going to be nobody to take the fall. So eventually it's going to fall back on him. He ends up not taking the dean position. I do still feel like somehow Tripp would have ended up. She had those tapes. It would have come out. It would have ended up coming out. But I don't know if perjury is on the table if you're getting the information that Bill Clinton perjured himself from a steamy.

novel, a steamy book of, I guess, confessions of a woman that was recorded without her consent. Like, it's very hard to nail Clinton for perjury at that point in time. And none of this is ever going to happen. Yeah. So there is an alternate universe where if he did leave for Pepper Dide and duck out because he had a stinker on his hands, maybe this doesn't happen. Unfortunately, it does happen.

Maybe not unfortunately. That's where I'm conflicted with this, because what the Star Report turns into is, was just utter bullshit from where it started. At the same time, he did lie. Like, he committed perjury. It's not always the crime. It's the cover-up that can get you. And that's exactly what this was.

So August 17th, 1998, Clinton testifies before this grand jury. Prior to this, he had come out with all of these different things, not admitting to anything, saying that this is not happening. This is all just a ploy. It's a conservative hit job. The public support is still behind him. August 17th, like I say, Clinton goes in to testify before this grand jury via CCTV. He admits to an inappropriate relationship, but doesn't admit that it's Monica Lewinsky.

And this is kind of like the definition of when you hear somebody asking what the definition of is is. That's what it is. That's what this is where the question comes up or the discussion. So he does this for, you know, the grand jury investigation. He does it, I think, from the White House like Map Room or something like that. And then I'm guessing during this discussion because he admits to this, he's like, I'm going to make an address. And at 10 p.m., he gives this four-minute national address admitting to an improper relationship while insisting his previous statements were technically accurate under the lawyer's definitions. because his argument to the fact,

and this is just the political fucking dance around the bullshit, it's so easy to see through. But it is that he never touched Monica with the intent to physically gratify or arouse her. And since the statement was it was sexual contact, Monica had sexual contact relations with him. He didn't have sexual relations by their deal. definition with Monica because he was not looking to gratify Monica.

So I'm guessing, yeah, all of that stuff, touching of the, the, the, all of it was for him. It was just all about Willie. Bill Clinton came out and told the whole United States in the world in front of Ahura Mazda and everybody, I'm a selfish lover. I'm the most selfish lover that will ever lead this country. The selfish lover defense is something. that you can't ever use in like normal discussions. This is like the one time that you can pull it out of your pocket,

be like, hey, there was probably an inappropriate relationship, but just no, I didn't care about her at all. I didn't care about her. She was servicing me. I was not servicing her. Bad move. What does that do to your post-presidency prospects? You've just told the world, I'm assuming, I feel like I can-

Hillary's already well aware. I feel like I can assume with pretty good accuracy that Monica Lewinsky wasn't the last person that he slept with not named Hillary Clinton. He didn't sleep with her. All right. Busted too, I guess. I'm sure the last bust that he didn't...

I love how that's my ultimate defense. He didn't fuck her. It's a Clinton defense. It would have given her too much pleasure. Or maybe, yeah. He's like, I don't do that. That was it. He was going to be so...

earth shatteringly good at sex that he didn't want to subject Monica to that because then she'd never leave. You know, had that come out as a defense, him like, listen, okay, listen, America, I did not have actual sexual intercourse with this woman because, oh, come on, you've all seen me play the saxophone. Had I got my mouth down there,

had I got old big Willie down there, she'd never been the same. You saw how crazy she was about me? Yeah, I could definitely see that as some sort of a defense. We finally run up to the submission of a 445 page report to the House of Representatives. It had 2,600 pages of supporting evidence on September 9th. This is delivered to Congress, or to, I guess, the House of Representatives.

I believe there are 18 boxes in total, nine boxes split right down the middle. Evidence, the exact same thing goes to both sides, the Republicans and the Democrats. The Republicans pull a move where they had to have had prior knowledge or something else that was going on because they vote to release it within 48 hours to the public. Yeah. Which is a pretty ballsy move. Well, and here's the thing, too, as we talked about earlier, buddy.com boom, they're like publish this shit straight to the internet. This isn't a newspaper thing. This is like put this online.

And within this 440-page star report, they outline 11 possible grounds for impeachment, ranging from things like perjury, which you did, obstruction, kind of did it, witness tampering, yeah, an abuse of power. When it comes to blow jobs, 100%. You think? What? Abuse of power? Yeah. Not as a governmental power, but as a, like, the position to be able to, buddy, there's, you think if Bill was another staffer or Bill was working in the mail room or anything like that.

You don't think there was the aura. She mentioned so many times that it was just something about like the most, she mentions the most powerful man like several times. So I mean, if that's enough to mention it. Yeah, I guess I see it is more of a governmental thing because, again, if Bill's a CEO of a Fortune 500 company and not the president of the United States, and this all comes out, he can't be prosecuted for abuse of power as a private citizen. Okay, unless it's a lawsuit or a civil lawsuit against one of his employees that he used his position within the company, because that's what it really is. It's a position within a company, if you think about it.

But the lawsuit doesn't pertain to Monica Lewinsky. She didn't file the lawsuit. this is something that they put forth in this perjury trial. So you're saying, though, but you could still say in the sense of governor, person working for the state. So I mean, listen, here's the thing, too. This is also, they're putting in just anything that they can try to grab onto for, you know, articles of impeachment, because they're going to, they're going to know that some are going to just drop off immediately. They're going to dismiss them, and then they're going to have to, you know, go with a more targeted approach. Well, and again, this isn't me trying to justify anything.

that Bill did. Bill's a filthy animal. I'm not trying to say that. I'm just saying when it comes to impeachment, you're trying to remove and alter the course of a vote to put a president into the White House through the means of a bunch of people that were only elected from the people within their state. There has to be some very solid like, we're going to do this. What I'm saying is that the abuse of power to me is not in the aspect of, uh, He used that to hurt citizens or do anything against the state or the country. He used it to...

In the commission of a cover-up. In the commission of an inappropriate relationship. Or in the, you know, he did it abuse of power to believe that he was able to just simply get his dick sucked because he was the governor. This backfires spectacularly. Because we were talking about before how graphic and how explicit the report was, including details on the cigar, the minute-by-minute plays, it turns off, which secretly it probably turned on a lot of the American public, but it turns them off in the sense of like,

that is a government official, correct. But this is a personal matter that if you guys think that you can look into the president on these type of personal matters, what rights as ordinary citizens do we have? this is still at a time when people that were around this is again late 90s but people that were around in like the late 70s early 80s that are adults now do remember a time when some shit came out from the FBI about people wiretapping and all that kind of improper surveillance on people

and so there are still a lot of people they're like this smells like fucking Hoover you guys trying to dig into somebody's personal life when your initial thing was to go after them for some real estate fucking dealing or some like fraud or whatever that was. It deployed to that, just one little quick thing before that, 20 million people access this report online. There were condensed versions in book form that reached the number one spot on the New York Times bestseller.

That's how hot this was. We like fucking smut, but guess what we don't want? We don't want our smut impacting or being a distraction to a good thing that's going on with the government right now. quit being a fucking distraction. The slate slow burn had they had done, they'd found a bunch of kids, I guess adults now that were kids during this time,

like in between like eight to 13. And they were asking them what they thought about it as kids. And one of the kids said, I was told by my mom that I needed to get an understand, I was told by my teacher that I needed to get kind of an understanding of what the current state of politics was. And they had asked me about the kind of Star Report and if I knew anything about it. I didn't want to say that I didn't know anything about it. So I went home and found it on the Internet and I read through it.

And I came back and I told my teacher what I had learned. And she had to send a note home apologizing to my parents for asking me that question because I came home and started asking my parents about all the things that I read in the Star Report. And the, so the voters are viewing Star as this overreaching moralistic crusader that's going after. That at this point, you've got to kind of imagine probably seems like he has a personal vendetta when they can see how much he's been tied to and how long he's been going after the Clintons, which, again, a lot of that stuff he's chasing down is probably valid or whatnot. But again, the way he's going about it and what he's focusing on is the wrong thing to try to go after. We're going to talk, we're talking about a Star report that. as he's giving his interview when they keep talking about the referral

at one point in time he has to correct the interviewer by saying the referral and by the referral I mean the Star Report just tying his name to it even further as he's talking about it Well and then like you told me

the Star Report featured four instances of Whitewater This is what it was These key phrases Oral Sex appears 85 times. The word breasts appears 51 times. Whitewater

shows up in the investigation a grand total of four times. I don't know what to make of that because part of me is like this was the Jones Clinton investigation

and the guy that came over from Whitewater was then put in charge of this. Why is Whitewater and what references Whitewater even made during this in relation to questioning the president about an inappropriate sexual or, you know, sexual harassment against Paula Jones. I can see the Lewinsky tie-in because what that is doing is that is building a history or a pattern.

I understand that. I see how that's admissible or even relevant to it. This is how we did it. This is how Star ties everything together. So he approaches Janet Reno and basically had her petition. in this three-judge court because he wanted to expand his whitewater jurisdiction to include the Monica Lewinsky matter.

This happens in January of 1998. So this is the lead-up in here. The way that Star had framed this whole thing was this link of a financial cover-up and the financial cover-up that he had fed Janet Reno was Hubell, the guy that got taken care of by Vernon Jordan with those private accounts.

Vernon Jordan was also the same guy that helped Monica Lewinsky find that job with Revlon. And so he believed that in the cover up of Hubell not speaking, he was doing the same thing with Monica Lewinsky to pay her off to try to get her to not cooperate. So Ken Estar plays this whole trick to be like, it happened over there. If I can prove that he did this with Hubell, I can do it through Lewinsky. Can we open this up at all? Okay.

But instead of focusing on that, because he didn't. didn't have enough to tie that together. He then only mentions that aspect of it four times while basically just trying to say, instead of painting Clinton as a like fraudster or like liar about paying off and stuff like that, he's trying to paint him as such a moral, sexual, deviant type individual that it calls everything into question. Well, and that's, that was his approach. But if you're only mentioning Whitewater four times in this whole.

entire report. How are you tying Huble and Lewinsky together through Vernon Jordan to try to protect them? Like there's no way to do it. And when Janet Reno finds out about this, she goes fucking crazy. Correct.

Because what it is is it's four pages of whitewater stuff. No, four times it's mentioned. No, no, I know it is, but what I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt is if four pages of it, yeah, the other 4141 are involving all of this other stuff. Like this, That should have been the bulk of it.

And I think also once everyone gets the same general feeling of the public seeing this, because fucking Clinton's approval rating goes into the high 60s. They said that it dumped for a matter of days afterwards, and then once the initial shock of everybody reading it and realizing what it all entailed, it was lying about an inappropriate relationship. People are just like, okay. Bob down the street did that. We still go get beers after work.

Yeah. There's literally four guys on my street that are doing this. And none of them are keeping gas at near a dollar a gallon. So do you have anything before October the very following month? Nope. October of 1998, a man that we had done an episode on before a very long time ago, an episode that I don't know if it was great or not. Larry Flint, the owner of Hustler magazine, places a full-page ad.

I think he spent $60,000 on this ad in the Washington Post. He's offering up to... Larry Flint had so much fuck you money that he could just do this. He offered up to $1 million for documented, verifiable evidence of any adulterous relationship that involved any current member of Congress or a high-ranking official.

Now, when this full-page ad goes out, there's thousands of tips that start flooding in. And as these tips are flooding in, Flint is hiring private investigators left and right to go chase down these leads. And you'd think, oh, well, you know, this is just a publicity stunt. What all could happen? Here's the thing, too.

You think, think of those PIs that are associated with Larry Flint. These aren't your clean, squeaky, clean guys. These are, I'm going to be digging through your motherfucking trash. We're going to find this come hell or high water. These are crafty trash pandas. After that, October 8, the House votes, 258 to 176 to launch a formal open-ended impeachment inquiry. They need to kind of hustle on this partially, but there is this belief that midterms are going

to be huge for them because they're going down the road of impeachment. If they're going down the road of impeachment instead of a censure, which we talked about it in the McCarthy thing, a censure is a slap on the wrist. It's kind of like wearing around a black mark. Well, at the same time... It's not, in essence, it's a slap on the wrist, symbolically. But everyone... Its power is in what everyone recognizes it as.

And when someone is censured, what that does is that doesn't take away your ability to do things from a standpoint of you doing them, but no one will fucking work with you. You're a fucking leper. As the president, it leaves a mark on your presidency, but everybody still has to work with the president. So the censure doesn't do a whole lot. So they're thinking, if we run down the impeachment road, we're going to have to then remove him. In order to remove him through a trial in the Senate,

we need a supermajority. So we need 67 votes of the 100 votes in the Senate to be able to remove him. You need the two thirds. If we impeach him, that's going to be some trouble because then we have to prove the case or else it just kind of fades off and we don't get it. No, if we censure him.

It's just the black mark. No, no, no, correct. The impeachment requires it to pass through the Senate, which is the simple majority, right? The impeachment happens in the House. Once the House gets their conclusion, when the Senate starts in the trial, the House is the one that presents the argument for removal. Correct, but it has to be a two-thirds majority in the Senate for it to actually go into effect. So you just need a simple majority through the impeachment inquiry in the House, but you need that 67 votes, that super majority. they're thinking, okay, well, midterms, we've done a lot of damage to the president. We've done a lot of damage to all the people in the Democratic Party that have covered for the president. Probably unknowingly, mostly probably they saw what Bill was up to and thought, yeah, I could see this guy doing this.

Well, the guy that was leading the Democratic Party at the time, I forgot what his name was. But he basically kind of determined that the best plan of action was what we're going to do is we're just going to let them try to attack us over this same thing over and over and over again. We see how the public is responding to this. It's risky, but we think it's going to do them more harm than us to actually if they keep pursuing this because they're not focused on anything else. We can sit here and say, we're not letting this absorb all of our time and energy. We're out working for the American people.

Look what's going on. Are you guys happy with the state of the economy? It's fucking fantastic, isn't it? Yeah. Let's go ahead and keep that train rolling, right? We're going to focus on that. And then you have the other side of it being like, but he got weiner stuff in the White House.

And he lied about it, which I'm not saying he shouldn't have, but what I'm saying is you're not listening to the public at the time where your priorities should be. And that's the whole point is drop the shit and do what the people want. Midterms, they're thinking, all right, if we can gain enough seats,

because we've shit on the Democratic Party enough, maybe we get closer to the super majority. It was a rude awakening. Midterms come and pass. House, I guess the Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, ends up having to step down from the speakership position because they end up losing five seats in the House and they gain no ground in the Senate.

And he does that willingly because it's such a fucking huge failure. And after that happens, December 11th and 12th, the House Judiciary Committee approves four articles of impeachment, impeachment. All these votes are done along party lines. December 19th, the full House of Representatives impeaches Clinton on two of the four articles, perjury and obstruction of justice. So here's the difference in the arguments. And it's pretty, the Democratic Party is towing the same line for their argument. And it's this. We're not debating the fact with you that he perjured himself or that all these other things are, you know, took place. What we're saying,

is by definition of what an impeachable offense is for high crimes or misdemeanors against the country or the government or whatever this in no way, shape or form qualifies under that. If you want to try to prove to us how this impacts or hurts the country have that at Haas.

And at that time, had the economy been shit or had it had a little bit of a downturn, it'd be like, look, look how the response is, they might have had even something to fix it on. Clinton doesn't have his eye on the prize. We're losing jobs at the record rate. Did you guys see his approval rating actually was higher today than it was yesterday? So let's go.

What's your argument? And it's wild how the public views this as you're talking about because the majority of people, 79% of people believe that he committed perjury. So that was 79% of the public that had come to grips with understanding that, yeah, but he did lie under oath. I'm sad that that's not higher. Yeah. 60%, the other, what, 21% are just died in the wool blue and they would never, ever go against the president.

60% of them opposed impeachment removal. The majority of people in this country opposed moving forward with the impeachment. And like you were saying, his overall job approval at that point in time is bouncing between 63 and 70%. So not only did you lose ground in the midterms because they've realized that this isn't going to work. they've walked this down the road so far that there's really not going to be much of a way to get out of it like they're going to have to go for removal and at this point in time

as they're going through all of this different stuff we still got the Larry Flint thing working in the background we still have these PIs that are working on all this and if anything is going to get people up and mobile and trying to dig up some dirt or coming forward with anything they can it's going to be a cool fucking million So December 15th, we're going to rewind just to fuzz.

Prior to the House impeachment debate, the incoming speaker, Bob Livingston, the guy that's going to take the place of Newt Gingrich, finds out that Larry Flint at his, well, it's made some hay. There's at least one woman that's spoken with Flint, whom he had an affair with that he knew about. December 17th, he informs all of the. other House Republicans that Larry Flint has these women and he did in fact have sex with them. How many does he end up getting four, right?

Yep. Larry Flint posts a teaser before Livingston comes out with this, just kind of giving people a rundown of maybe what he has. December 19th, during the impeachment debates, one last time Bob Livingston calls on Clinton to resign before saying that he was planning on stepping down himself. He wanted Clinton to show the same. Oh, he's just sitting there and he's like, okay, Mr. Clinton. Mr. Clinton, please.

Just tell the people the truth. Let us know. You owe us that much. I don't think so. I'm cool. He's like, fuck. So I'll be stepping down. Bill, resign like I'm planning to do for the reason

I'm about to mention. Bill, I'll help you out. I'll resign with you in a show of solidarity. Not because I slept with four other women and it's all about to come out. Oh man, you can go fuck yourself. I'm done with this thing I got sax practice. So he would eventually be replaced rather quickly by a man named Dennis Hassert. Now, Azzard has a very interesting story because Hacert would be a part of the house for a pretty long time.

after release politics in 2016, Hassert would be convicted and sentenced to 15 months in prison for financial offenses that were related to the sexual abuse of teenage boys relating to an admitted cover-up of sexually abusing underage boys during his time as a high school teacher and coach between 1965 and 1981. He doesn't get arrested for the sexual crimes because the statute is up on this. Do you see this? This is my not shocked face

He ends up getting arrested For the financial crimes Of trying to pay these boys off There's a reason fucking Grindr goes down In these places Fucking kids Yeah I feel like the The speaker position

That was standing for the impeachment of the president wasn't a Can you Okay so this is all occurring after the midterms right? Oh yeah Can you imagine what a fucking happened Had this happened prior to the midterms or these guys back to back, the one guy has to come.

Well, I guess the other guy gets all the way up to 2016. Yeah, Hasser's out of this situation, but he was the sitting speaker of the house when they impeached. Okay, 2016, you said statute of limitations had run out. That means that fucking during his run as speaker, he was fucking little boys. Well, these accounts happened between 65 and 81. So he was, he's two decades with the knowledge of knowing what he had done before. while he was trying to go after the sitting president for lying about blow jobs. January 7th to the 14th or to the 12th of February in 1999, the Senate holds a trial.

It's presided over by Chief Justice William Rinkwist. July 11th. Hey, man. Bill to bill. July 11th is when opening arguments begin. The House managers are presenting this case against Clinton. And, of course, they're using the Star Report. They're using all of this.

evidentiary reporting that Star had done to back up the Star report. They're pointing to every single one of these instances that Monica Lewinsky had told them about where this sexual relation had happened. During which encounter, when they're discussing this and going over it, is Bill just like, oh, my God, they need to stop talking about this. I'm getting so fucking hot. I forgot we did that. Oh, my God.

I wonder where that cigar is right now. Wait, Ken, can you go back? and talk about that other pot. Can we get a five? Do you have any more detail about what happened? I would like the stenographer and her sexiest voice to read that last passage back. January 19th, while the trial is going on, Clinton gives the State of the Union. How awkward is that that he's standing up there while this is all happening, while his removal trial is going on?

it just it has to be insane here's the thing he it gets past the house they know everyone knows there is no way it is getting past the Senate everyone already there's not a piece of bombshell stuff that can be dropped at this point that that will sway it the when they proceeded with this whole thing to run it through the House representatives. They also knew that that was simply just a symbolic gesture to try to just play to their base because they knew that it would not get through the Senate. It wasn't even, it had no fucking chance, just due to the numbers. It was enough to where the Senate majority leaders, the Republican Senate majority leaders had kind of had this plan where they were going

to start it. They were going to put up a basic defense. This was going to be a very quick trial. They knew that they weren't going to win it. That was the strategy. The House representatives, the Republicans that were going to actually put on this trial in the Senate, were like, hey, we did a lot of work on this. We really like this to come to light. You guys don't know exactly what's going to happen. And at the same time, the ones in the center are like, yes, we do. We got our clocks clean in the midterms.

You think this is going to fix it? It's just... Have you heard the... Have you read a fucking newspaper? Have you spoke to your constituents? Have you looked at a poll? Not good. Not good for us. January 25th and 26th, the White House lawyers present the defense.

They are claiming this is private misconduct versus an impeachable defense. And by saying that they're maintaining that the president's personal misconduct and misleading statements regarding that conduct, they grow out of this private, embarrassing personal matter. Like there's no connection to the government whatsoever. There's no official abuse of government power, which again, we had that. I could see it go either ways. I mean, the abuse could come from the cover up if you're not talking about the sexual experiences.

And I mean, you could flip around and say the misuse here is the gross misuse of governmental funds in order to go ahead and try to push this thing through. Yeah, I mean, there's a second point that this is just lack of legal perjury because they're going to argue that under the strict legal definitions, quote-unquote, using the civil litigation, the one that John was laying everything out in, or that Jeffrey was laying everything out in,

Clinton's ambiguous, kind of evasive deposition that he gives didn't really cleanly satisfy this technical legal definition that he had given. They're making the defense of, again, Clinton's a bad, he's a selfish lover. For the most important impactful decision to a trial that would affect our country, you can't, that's such soft, that's baby soft shit. like he like the fact that you can't I'm not saying he didn't dance around the answers I'm not saying he didn't avoid the quote 100% but at the same time you are trying to convince 12 people over on the democratic side that they need a vote against all of this stuff no fucking way it's just not not only that not just saying it was a strict party thing and they shouldn't have backed him or anything like that but if you are really wanting to boil it down Private misconduct versus impeachable offenses. Can you imagine if something were to happen and there was another impeachment,

how much that argument would now come up in this current impeachment, private misconduct versus like, that's what I'm saying is this is such a small potato's issue when you're really thinking about something to go after versus the current shit that's going on today. And that was their, that was their finishing blow their left hook was this constitutional constitutionality. They're basically telling the senators, hey, guess what? if you remove the president over this personal private scandal, that's going to lower the constitutional bar for any potential impeachments going forward. You're going to, knowing the people that make presidents, they're chosen from the people. They're chosen from the populace. They have been in, and I'm not saying that this is right, simply the fucking system we live in.

Most of the time, people that get voted for president are in their 50s, 60s, right? Realistically, that means that person has 50 or 60s. 60 years, probably a large portion of them between 30 to 40 of those years spent within some type of governmental office or entity where they have to learn how that fucking system works and how to play within it, which involves you to get fucking dirty. So to say that you can do this based upon stuff brought up before you're even president or during that time frame where it's a personal matter, not impactful of the country in itself or anybody, any private citizen or anything like that, like you just said, the precedent

that would set, no one would ever stay in office. It's, yeah. Or you would spend the entire presidency locked up in litigation and how the fuck is anyone supposed to get anything done? Four years later, this could flip and you guys could be sitting in the impeachment chairs were saying, well, okay, does this rise to the level of a president lying about a private matter? Well, guess what your guy did? Good luck finding someone who can actually pass this stringent private misconduct impeachable offense thing. Exactly. February 12th, the final deliberations conclude the Senate holds one.

roll call votes on both of these articles. And again, a super majority is needed. So Article 1 is going to be for perjury. They charged that Clinton had lied under oath regarding his relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky during the civil deposition. As this comes up for a vote, you get 45 voting guilty and 55 not guilty. All 45 Democrats vote for not guilty in 10 Republicans. They can't even get over to their side. Which shows you how flimsy that was because those people knew full well that it wasn't going to go through. Don't be on a sinking ship. And also have something that you can explain to your constituents to say, I tried to wrap

this something up as quickly as possible because I agree with you as a government overreach and a huge misuse of resources. Yeah, absolutely. Article 2, obstruction of justice, charges that Clinton attempted to thwart the discovery of the relationship. That one I'm in on. That one I'm sold on. But again, you have to have this super majority and the obstruction of justice charge gets 50 guilty and 50 not guilty.

All five Democrats vote for this. 45 Democrats vote for this. You get five Republicans that cross the line and jump on the not guilty side. Regardless, neither one of these reaches the super majority threshold case ends. That's where it ends. It ends without a removal. and after this, Clinton comes out with this public apology that he's profoundly sorry.

Is he? You know, I don't know. Probably not. He's probably sorry he got found out. Yeah, well, he's profoundly sorry for the burden his actions placed on Congress in the country. So he's not sorry for lying. He's sorry for what everybody had to go through because he lied. My dearest America, I'm so sorry that I put you through this.

I cherish our time together. He returns to office. He continues handling all of these policy issues. He's trying to make education better. He's trying to sure up Social Security. They're also dealing with Kosovo at this point in time. That's going to roll all the way up to 2001. And his approval ratings stay strong the whole entire time.

Like we said earlier, he left office. with the highest approval rating of a president all the way since Truman. And as we know, Truman go boom. So Truman left with that high approval rating because he was debaugh. Yeah, he decimated a couple cities over in Japan. Clinton would suffer a $90,000 fine for civil contempt, or civil contempt regarding the misleading statements about Monica during the Paula Jones trial. you have an instance where I believe I didn't look this up but I'm pretty sure in 2001

Hillary ends up winning a Senate seat in New York sure I don't know that's kind of the thing that struck me the most and just because again I was young I didn't really pay attention beyond what was going on with the trial and anything like that, but Hillary came out of this very popular. Hillary was able to keep her composure while her husband just cucked her in front of the entire world. And she remained popular to the point where she was able to gain a Senate seat because of it. Like that's, I don't know any other woman that I can think of. Was Bezos cheating?

I mean, yeah, I'm sure he was. Because I would have to say that, what was the lady's name? I can't remember. His wife coming out of that divorce settlement and becoming the richest woman in the world. Yeah. Probably came out a little bit better on top of that. I miss. It's driving me nuts.

Yeah, she was the United States Senator from New York from January 3rd, 2001 to January 21st, 2009. And she then makes her foray into the Secretary of State until 2013. So she parlayed her husband getting charged with perjury into a Senate run followed up by becoming the Secretary of State. That's some fucking baggage that you're bringing with you. I'm self-admittedly not the biggest Hillary Clinton fan. I also understand that for the reasons that I'm not a Hillary Clinton fan, she's had to kind of galvanize herself because of her political career and her career in the spotlight. I don't know how many bad things that Clinton's have done.

I'm just assuming that there's quite a few of them. Yeah. At the same time, I also can kind of understand why they've, they still come out for certain things, but they've pushed themselves back out of the spotlight enough besides coming out for fundraisers or for being questioned by the state or the same thing. Senate still, or the House of Representatives still, they're still standing in front of Congress for some reason. After all of that stuff, I just, Bill was kind of able to float in the background for once.

Hillary finally gets to take center stage, and as cold and robotic as she seemed, she had to build up those defenses because she's been catching shit since 1992. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe having to deal with Bill Clinton for your whole life would just eventually. drive you to be a fucking robot. Yeah, I could definitely see that. Lewinsky ends up moving to England in 2005. She graduates with her master's in social psychology in 2006.

She took a lot of shit. She was a very young kid thrust into a situation that I don't have the bandwidth to be able to understand and for as much criticism as I gave to her for not being able to cover her ass and not being able to spill. When you mean cover ass, you mean keep the thong? Yeah. To keep one of the biggest secrets that this country has ever held at that young of an age. Yeah.

She's kind of grown into finally making a little, reconciling her own emotions during the time. She seems much more self-aware of her part in the situation. But also, again, looking back on it now, realizing that, frankly, there were a lot of adults in the room that should have been like, nah. Yeah. So. Yeah. And it's, how do you follow that up?

How are you Monica Lewinsky's first boyfriend after all of this plays out? He lived in another country. He was an English dude? Yeah. Who's bail Clinton? Mm-hmm. Perfect. Oh, shit.

Oh. Why is it that every time you get excited, I can smell a Havana cigar? I just like the. cologne. Oh, this one went longer than I thought it was. It's such an interesting kind of portrait in time. It's something that unfortunately, not for better and for worse, has shaped a political climate that we're currently living through now. This is a post-truth era. The gloves were taken off. Nothing is sacred. Yeah, we're never going to get back to a pre- 1992 time in our government anymore because we've gone so far down this road that there's not a lot of ways to go back.

Yeah. There's no U-turns here. Yeah. Pretty pivotal moment in just American political history didn't happen all that long ago. But for, you know, that two years or whatever that that was or a year that that was just front and center of the national media, it was just that's what everyone was talking about. Enough blowjob talk. Yes, enough blowjob talk. All right, well, we hope you guys enjoy this episode, and we'll catch you on the next one.

Peace.