Historically High - The History of Australia

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

The Land Down Under as it exists today is very new in the grand scheme of things. During the early days of exploration it really existed only as a myth, the great southern land of legend. Once it was finally "discovered" and I say that because the first Aboriginal peoples had been there oh say roughly 60,000 years at that point, it didn't take long for the British to turn it into another colony, as Britain tended to do with literally anything. It's an extremely fascinating circumstance in which a people were left to live and develop untouched by other cultures for thousands of years, and then only within the last 250 years does a modern civilization step in to kinda ruin it, but then at the same type create a people as cool as the Aussies. How did this happen? Tune in and find out. Support the show Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What is up, ladies and gentlemen? Oh, New Year, New Us. Good day. Yeah. Good day, mate. This is, you know what? I feel like we were influenced to do this one, but this is something that has always fascinated me, and I didn't even realize the aspects that had fascinated me about it

until, like, looking into how much, like, known history and how weird and abstract the history of this place must be. And to help me discuss, and of course I always forget there's a fucking title on this. Everyone knows I try to be like, hey, what are we talking about today? No, we're talking Australia, folks. And this is a big one because this is our first attempt at essentially a country. And to me, this is the most interesting country in the world. It's obviously being on the other, well, probably not the other side of the planet.

I don't fucking know. Everything else. Yeah. Thinking how a globe works, I don't think it's on the other side of the planet from us. I think we're probably closer than we think. We're going to talk about that because in my head, the lanes of shipping of travel to there, it went the opposite direction. I didn't.

Yeah, I didn't realize that. But yeah, it's like, it's, if you're thinking about it, yeah, so North America, Europe, all that kind of stuff, South America has been separated for a long time with Pangee and all that kind of stuff. there were little land bridges, which is how travelers came in to populate and everything like that. But I don't think any other country has had the type of isolation and have been allowed to develop for so long on its own than Australia,

just because people didn't even fucking know that it was there for the longest time. They just thought that there was a great southern continent. Yeah, it was literally just like a hypothesis that they had to believe that if there's this much in the northern hemisphere, if there's this much land, then there has to be that much land

somehow to weigh it out in the southern hemisphere. Going to be able to go to South America, probably kind of figured out, they were like, well, if we sail down here, we realize it gets really cold, so we must be heading toward. I don't know if they had any concept of like, well, it must be cold at the poles

or anything like that. I'm amazed at fucking like the accuracy of like seafaring ships when they were controlled by the wind. It's fucking nuts. But maybe because South America was so low, they were like, okay, we've gone to this longitude latitude or whatever.

There's got to be something along the same line or a little bit up from it all the way around the world. But still, so, I mean, we're going back to essentially the first peoples of coming to Australia. And then we're going to take you all the way up until... Probably like 2000s. Kind of current day stuff that's going on. Everything about this whole entire, just Australia's fascinated me. I started doing Australian stuff

probably like a month or two months before we even really had this idea. But yeah, today, Starward Whiskey. Never heard of it before. I'm a victim of online marketing. I was going to say, did you, the way you grabbed that and started reading it,

I thought you were going to surprise me and like, hey, we got an ad read. If Starward wants to reach out, no free ads, but I like this shit a lot. I didn't realize that Australia had like a whiskey, scene. Stuff's pretty tasty. She's wine. Yeah, I guess there is wine.

But I'm excited to have a nice Starward, two-fold double-grain Australian whiskey drink with this episode. Of course, along, I wish that we could have scored some Australian weed. I've been Australian weeds probably pretty nuts. They probably have the coolest fucking names for strains.

That's got to be fucking insane. If some of ours are as crazy as they are, like, kangaroo fots. Yeah, they just have like bog and blue. lens of weeds. Yes. I bet Paul Hogan would have his own. God too. All right. Well, you know what? I didn't even do the introductions. With me as always, you know, as Professor C.K. With me as always, he's the Dean of Green. He's the Sultan of Strain. This man never forgets to pass after he does a little puff-puff.

He's part of the Legion of... What am I reading there? Leisure, Doom, baby. No, that's right, Animal and Hawk and Animal. That's right, the Legion of Doom. Probably had many great matches with Luke Butch, the Bushwhackers from Australia, a couple of sheep herding tag team wrestlers in Australia. I love it. That's Professor Adam, ladies and gentlemen, and without further ado, after we remind you to review, rate, subscribe, all that good shit, leave us your feedback. Going like we like it, we're going down under. All right. How far back were able to go?

Before we do that, what was the Australian kiss? Is that in Hall Pass? Is it called an Australian kiss when he goes, it's like a French kiss, but it's down under? That's what it is, yep. I got to find out if that's a real thing. I feel like that's a pretty funny, funny thought to be like, oh, French kissing's with your mouth. Australian kissing, same thing. Do you think it's like the toilet bowl thing in the other hemisphere that's the other way?

I forgot about that. Yeah, how it spins the other way. Is that true? It has to, I think. I don't know how, because it's still, why would water just spin the other way upside down? There has to be some type of hydrodynamic explanation. to that, but we're not talking that today. No, I will say, I, Australia sounds awesome, fantastic place. I'm probably stopping at New Zealand. I feel like that's enough Australia,

because I don't think there's anything that can kill you in New Zealand. I'm sure there's some, I think from based on what I've seen from New Zealand, and I don't know, I've heard that there's some weird thing between Australia and New Zealand. I don't know what, what it is. I haven't looked into it enough. I know that there was some bad, I would assume that being, they're very, to be, I know they're very distinct cultures and everything like that, but being so close together, you could see if there was maybe some shit between. And we got, we went to war with our fucking own country and we were right opposed each other. True. Yeah, we just cut our country and half and fucked with each other. Exactly. I mean, I would assume that there might be a

little bit more kinship there, considering that they probably do branch off and weren't settled independently just based on, I think, the language similarities. I think they branched off from Australia. I don't know. We're going to have to do an episode of New Zealand, but not even, the original name of the continent was Sahul, right? Sahul. And that encompassed both Australia, what, New Guinea, and Tasmania. New Guinea, Tasmania was something before it was Tasmania, and I don't fucking remember what that colony was.

It was Van Demonsland. Van Demonsland, that's right. When they were saying it, I see it as Van like, Van Diemen because of the Tasmanian devil that they called it that. How did we get there? Yeah, that's a crazy thought that we went from Van Demons land. land to the Tasmanian devil. It was like they wanted to keep the demon in the name.

I don't know. So they just named the whole but it was a guy. The guy's name was Van Demon. Yeah. Yeah. But that whole area just in there it seems like and we're talking 60, 70,000 years ago, which seems like

a number that I can't really fathom. But back then during the ice ages, there was just less water on the planet. Yeah, it was all locked up in ice. So as it's locked up in ice, you're going to have not only shallower waters, but you're also going to have land bridges that show up

that are covered now by probably like hundreds of feet of water that just wasn't there before. So the options for those... Deep enough that it makes it very easy to become impassable. And so to think at one point or another, Saul,

Tara Australis, Australia, as it kind of becomes known, was a much, much bigger landmass. And being a much bigger land mass, it also becomes much closer to places like New Zealand, closer to places like the... It's still in its original position from the deformation of the supercontinent. Yeah. It's still close enough. It hasn't... It's not still not pulling away.

So these land bridges, these kind of passable waterways, were so much more abundant back then that 60,000 years later, you look at a map and you're like, what the fuck? How did people get there that many years ago through all of this water? you weren't building ships back then. There was no way that you were going to be able to build something that was going to sustain that long of a run in the Indian Ocean. It's crazy to think in this, try not to dwell on this too much, but essentially the spread of civilization

from what do they call them birthplaces of, or cradles of civilization. So you basically have people from, I think it's the, both Africa, and then what was the one that was kind of, like sub-Saharan, like Middle East, in the Middle East, there was a cradle of,

civilization, correct? I think there was one there. I believe there was one in Eurasia up a little bit higher. There had to have been one. We talked about it in South America. There's different cradle of civilization that sort of pop up everywhere. That, again, how the fuck you would be, if it's everything over between Africa and Europe, like we've talked about, there's land masses that they connect and where they can see each other, to have something like that over in South America. Or even like a weird count like side by said evolution of a species that was on both of them when they were separated enough not to reach each other anymore it's just that's what i'm saying it's fucking nuts to think about so you have people traveling through africa asia and moving over generations and generations when

people are you know because at this point agriculture and everything was something that came later so you it was mostly hunting and gathering you were traveling where you know the migratory patterns of your prey for survival and all that kind of stuff with the seasons. So you had people eventually travel all the way down into Southern Asia and start to get like into the areas where the land isn't as wide or isn't as much, but there's basically like you're saying, these pathways down to these larger areas. And then at some point over thousands of years, you get people that it's separated and you have to go island hopping. So these people have to be advanced enough to be able to like build watercraft and

then navigate waterways. And this still happens like fucking more than 60,000 years ago. And so at some point, you get a group of people that have, their ancestors have migrated all the way down. They're coming down further to the south. And now they're starting to basically separate themselves from the mainland people by going further out. And it gets to a point as well where there's like, And I think we kind of, there's different distances of the information. But how I read it, there was like a 90 kilometer, which I think is like 55 miles at one point gap when they can date it back like where it would have been 60,000 years ago. Yeah.

That there was like a 90 mile gap. Well, that's over the, or 55 mile gap 90 kilometer. That's over the horizon. So as a people, you have to be advanced enough or fucking ballsy enough or crazy enough To basically be like, yeah, we go out this far. You know, we're a seafaring people as far as what you could be at the time. Basically, seafaring means we don't get far enough away from the shore, but we consider ourselves on the ocean.

Yeah, we'll go out a little past the riptide, but we're not out discovering new lands. Yeah, we need to be able to keep everything in our purview. We need to be able to see it at all times. And then you have finally enough people moving across to this unseeable continent that are then going to settle it and be essentially the first Aboriginal people. And there are theories that sort of, I guess,

I never really thought of until I heard them as far as what would make sense or not. But Australia being the arid place that it is is prone to fires. And we've seen that, I think over the last few decades, there have been some really just terrible fires that have ripped through Australia. I don't think this is far-fetched at all.

No. but to be able to know that and to know that plumes of smoke from just large natural fires that would happen in such an arid region would be able to put smoke on the horizon that they've known what fire is for so long that when they see that smoke, they realize that smoke is never going to rise from water. So there has to be a landmass for that smoke to be coming from. Which, yeah, it's very logical to think that these people were smart enough to get where they were. be able to travel and follow migratory patterns. Once they see that smoke, they have to think, okay, well, there has to be some shit there.

Things not going well here. If our resources are dwindling, if our population's getting too much to where we can't sustain it. We're at war with another tribe. People get getting picked off and everything like that. Also, too, you're getting further away from the equator. So as they're moving down, they're like, well, this is a more warmer climate. We're not having to go and get the cold and everything. And if they're like, oh, there's something over there.

even further that direction. If we can get there, maybe we can get even warmer and not have to deal with like any winters or anything like that. Because at that point, it was the elements that were killing people off and not having a growing season or not having a larger hunting season in which they could go out and try to, you know, gain supplies for survival. I wish I looked into it more. Did you see the prehistoric animals that they had?

Like the gigantopithecus. And then there was also like a kangaroo that was like five times larger than... Yeah, it was a kangaroo that was, I think they said like, meters tall and I still don't understand the conversion from meters to feet or yards, but even if you say... A meter's a little bit less than a yard, I think. I thought it was a little bit more than you right. I thought it was like three and a half feet. Give or take. But even that, a 12 foot tall kangaroo seems like the scariest shit that you could ever run into. They're fucking terrified. Have you seen the jacked fucking, they're fucking terrifying now?

Just a minute. And they said that there were monitor lizards that were like 20 feet long and shit like that. Like things that I'm sure were probably not in a super abundance 60,000 years ago. they were probably dying off. But you run into one of those, I'm probably getting back on the boat and headed back the other direction. Well, and imagine too, like, once it's separated far enough out

where animals aren't making an attempt to get over there, the animals get to develop, and they've been already there developing at this point for thousands. Exactly, and so you get one dominant fucking super lizard, and then one fucking, like, super,

I don't know if at that point maybe fucking kangaroos were eaten for carnivores or at least like omnivores or something, but you get a fucking super kangaroo against a super lizard. It's Godzilla all over again. We're doing Godzilla Australia version this time. So I heard another thing too that the farthest they can date back the Aboriginal people, I think was it going to be between 50,000 and 65,000 years ago.

And they're able to do this. So they were able to already carbon date stuff. And that goes back. I think I heard, actually I heard a new fact, carbon dating can only go back about 40,000. years. That's like the time frame in which all the detectable carbon has gone out of something. So they've already found stuff that can't be carbon dated any further back. And then they've also, if you're thinking about it from settling a new continent or like, you know, people moving in,

it takes a long time to keep spreading because especially in this scenario where how many people, how big were these boats, how many trips did they have to make to get a sustainable population? I don't think it could have been too much. I don't think it was literally born out of, I don't know if this word really matters back then, because I think it was just kind of fuck whoever you could get a hold of. But these were incestrious lines of families of probably 16 to 20 people. Did you say ancestrious or incestrious?

Incestrious. It had to have been. If there's 16, 20 people, which oddly enough, you're not, you're not eventually after certain generations, you probably do find out in a weird, morbid way. how not to interbreed enough to where you're not going to get undesigned. You have your shamans who are like, okay, we've seen enough over this many years that this family no longer is with this family. There had to have been some type of like intelligent design.

The Aboriginal people did. They separated themselves out so as nobody had 11 toes anymore. You had to have that many people in order to do that intelligently. And not only that is if you're coming over, you're just hitting the northernmost point or the northern tip. of that. With the size of this country, the highest point is where they came in. They had room to spread out not relatively further west because it was kind of along the coast on that side of it, but south and then the complete western portion of the country. And they had so many thousands of years to actually do that and separate and create a populace. And then as you're creating a populace,

you're creating all of these new cultures and everything to where like within this country over the generations and spreading out of these different Aboriginal people, you end up getting, by the time of the European settlers, which was fucking 300 years ago. It's only 300 years ago. You have like 250 distinct language groups. They said there could have been up to 500 different tribes. 750,000 populations.

It could have supported 750. And so, like, you just have tribes that maybe this tribe only speaks this language, but they speak partial this language. So you could have different languages in each tribe, but each tribe that was at least in the geographical region understood every other tribe. And the geographical brilliance of these people and just the way that they did everything, what we were debating before, and I'm sure we'll get somebody to correct us, not Native Australia. in Aboriginal words are probably very tough for us, but the Madjabebebe. It was located,

it was a rock shelter that was located about 30 miles, 50 kilometers from the coast of the northern territories. And inside this rock shelter, they would do these excavations and they found over 100,000 artifacts at this Madjababe place. And what they would do when you were talking about the carbon dating

could only go back so far. Then they would go to the layers of the terrace of the earth, Because you can see through different layers of sediment that have gone over the years, they were able to dig down in the strata far enough to where they believed that this shit was 60,000 years old. The artifacts were matching up in that strata and everything. That they were pulling out of that strata, which to me to know that that place would have been inhabited over tens of thousands of years, just back and forth where things are being buried in the strata and then you have people coming into it.

It had to have been like a common place for them to be around. That's the exactly what I was going to say, like, in a weird way, I'm thinking of it as like an Ellis Island type thing where all the people kind of started from there. If you were to just say everyone came and there was no one in the United States and everyone had to go through Ellis Island first and then spread out from there. It's almost a place that was maybe like a revered place to them. Like after generations, this shelter, this is like our, you know, I'm not sure I know that like with the Aboriginal people, it was. a lot of reverence for the land. It was primarily the reverence for the land. Um, and they had this thing called dream time. Yeah. And the best way that like I heard him explain it is it was basically legends of like these people with like superhuman abilities, but they weren't like in place of the

gods like with Greek type culture and everything like that. But basically these people were like legends or myths and they would revere these people but not worship them. So they obviously had some type of maybe deity type system or belief. Even if it was based on a deity of the land. But like maybe this to them was like the birthplace of their people. And so you're just getting people coming in and out and traveling and pilgrimaging to this place. And that's why you're seeing so many artifacts is because you have so, this place has been like a populated place for the entirety of your Aboriginal, you know,

development. The cave drawings on the walls and just kind of seeing it's almost like there's a part of your brain when you see some cave drawings. And they were a big fan of. like you put your hand on the rock, you basically missed whatever sediment or whatever you're going to do around it.

So it's almost like a negative of what you're trying to draw. They found charcoal drawings. They found beeswax drawings. So in order to find beeswax, you have to find bees and then be able to process the wax away from the honey

in order to have something to draw with. There was also something called dry orgy. I think it was like a plant that was around there that they could scrape across to get their drawings on there. And they dated them literally as far back as they could to hundreds or tens of thousands of years ago. But there's drawings that still exist today that could have been 60,000 years old's worth of people that have survived the elements. They even kind of, I can't remember where I heard it, but they were talking about how if you want to go back even a little bit further than the 60,000 years, that's just what they're able to identify.

But that's just from the areas in Australia that they could access. If they're talking about when it was a land bridge or when it was more island hopping, there were land masses that as the, it was at the like the tail end of the Pleistocene when the ice levels were retaining enough water to bring the sea levels down. Basically, you could have had civilizations that were, you know, another thousand generations that before they went even further south, they stayed in one area. And all that stuff is now underwater. Because now if you look at the distance between any of like mainland Asia or anything like that in Australia, very, very fucking sizable amount of distance there and everything. So all of that at one point was not joined as a singular land bridge, but close enough to where people could go across them.

You could still cross water that may have been knee deep, waist deep. Even boats or a raft and just short floats. Exactly. But now look how far of way it is. So that should tell you how long it took a fucking continent. to move that far away to create that type of like disparity in distance. And so if you're thinking of that way, you're like, oh shit, we can't access any of that because it's all been destroyed by water and it's all underwater.

Like this could have dated back even thousands and thousands of years earlier. They were finding like early stone tools, hatchets, different things like that. I mean out of like Flint and everything, right? Sharpened Flint. Yeah. So they were finding these people knew fire. They knew kind of basic tool. building to be able to sustain wherever they were. Some of the oldest human remains were found or were found around a place called Lake Mungo. This blows me away. The first set of remains that they found were actually cremated remains.

So whether it had been a religious practice, anything like that, they were able to find cremated remains first. Then they found skeletal remains of a female. And based upon where they were found in the strata, they were believed to be about 40,000 years old. Okay. Here's, you asked for the comparison. I didn't have you look it up. The closest, the first documented trace of human, like a footprint in North America. Oh, in North America. In North America. In North America was like 22,000 years ago. The furthest back, I think they said cave drawings that they were able to identify in like Eurasian, that area and everything like that,

was literally almost around like the same time, maybe 45,000 years ago. So just, within that, you know, and I know when we talk in thousands of years and our lifetimes or, you know, if we get lucky, it's 70 to 100 years. So, like, understanding, like, how far back humans date and even how far back they date in a way that, like, there's some, we're not fucking cave people. Like, there's some type of development to our civilization, even if we're just, like, nomads and everything. Yeah. To think, I want to say, I'm looking it up right now, I think it's called Lucy's footprint in Africa

reanalysis of 3.6 million year old footprints suggests a kind of hominin walked in Lucy's neighborhood and this was shit where was this so this was millions of years ago so this would have had to have been like the first

known hominids that walked upright in Africa which those people had no understanding of five or anything like that. So through evolution. It was more animalistic, if anything, still like that. So probably had the five toes, were able to form a walking upright foot.

But at the same time, it was so, so long before that. It's just incredible to know that those, like, that was a landmass. And granted, Australia that many years ago was probably a lot closer. But at the same time, it was like sort of, this is going to sound stupid. but first Jurassic Park when they abandon the park and then it's able to thrive on their own and then they go back

Yeah that was a matter of like 10 years Yeah I have to oh less Yeah so now think about Being able to see evolution Of a solid solemn place Over tens of thousands of years So I don't know if we should talk about it now

But I'm just gonna bring it up anyway You look at Okay compare Where the status of the Aboriginal people was as far as their like development and everything like that based upon where it was when European settlers first came in. You can compare that with anything. You can compare that with like isolated pockets in like Africa when like the Dutch discovered it. The advancement in technology and all this stuff was so far advanced. It's what essentially was the reason that they could like do take

them as slaves and everything. They weren't on par. Yeah. What sucks is there's this shitty fucking irony to peaceful societies or societies that seem mostly peaceful and to live like one with the land and all this kind of stuff, they end up getting their peaceful like lifestyles and like cooperation with each other and everything are what get them fucked over. Because what drives these countries that end up coming in to be more advanced is that we're always fucking fighting with each other. And so all development of technology has almost always gone hand in hand with warfare. Even medicine has gone with warfare because you had to have different ways to inoculate and treat your troops and all that kind of stuff. So it's like the countries that had been fucking fighting for longer were always just naturally more advanced. And so you have like the British who were expanding and fighting and expanding and fighting.

That's why they had such a Navy. Same thing with the Spanish. Same thing with the Dutch is that they basically, because they had smaller pockets of land, they were just like, yeah, fucking go explore. take up as much land as possible. And so, like, that drove their advancement. When you were just living in fucking Australia or a Sahel at the time, you had room to just spread out and you were, like, cooperating with a population. Yeah, you may not have been like, if we look back at it now, I've been like, well, yeah,

like it was primitive and everything back then. Yeah, but at the same time, if that was all that you knew and that was all that you needed to make you happy and everything like that, that was the life that was, you know, that you wanted. That was a peaceful life. You weren't worrying about, you might have been worrying about animals or some shit like that. But it's like, yeah, we're not always fucking fighting with someone that's trying to kill us or conquer us or take us over. Everyone just knows how to live here. And so, like, you have this, you find out that like there's almost a, when you allow society to knock it like too large and isolate it from all the other bullshit of like people wanting to

start trouble, they just don't fucking start trouble. And that's not to say that there wasn't. I'm sure that between the clans of the families and everybody that broke off. There's still worse skirmishes. But as far as war goes back then, if you only send 20 warriors out to the battlefield and two of them get injured, you're going to retreat because those two people are going to be vital to your group of people back then.

It's the same thing when we talk about, like, when we're talking about, even in like early United States history, like when you talk about like the Native American raids and like what they were like the battles during like the Indian Wars and everything, the battles were like, 50 guys.

It wasn't a hundred guys. Total annihilation on either side. You had to be much more like, oh shit, we've lost three guys. Like, fucking pull back. Yeah, you got to know when to pull the cord. And I know just based upon a lot of the scientists, I don't know how the hell they know, but I'm going to put some stock and they understand the shit a lot better than I do, that these kind of things happened.

They still hadn't really adapted to farming. So they did something that was called matchstick farming, which I find very fascinating, to where they would burn out. Fire farming. Yeah, fire farming. Yeah, they would burn out parts of this land. So you would get a regrowth of newer grasses in the areas that would then attract the animals to come back and feed on them. So it was basically like they had their hunting grounds that when they became too barren, they would light them on fire.

They would burn off any sort of bad plants or anything like that. And then the new grasses that would grow up out of the ashes that were nutrient rich would then bring the animals back in. You're not farming, you're not farming a crop. you're farming food for your crop. You're farming hunting lands, basically. They would do the same thing with, like, wooded areas and everything if they couldn't, because apparently trees in Australia, some of them are fucking tough. Yeah.

And so... And they're old as shit, too. So they would burn out these areas to create new, basically, hunting grounds and everything, to kind of revive the land. And what this actually did is you look at, like, how it... You're like, okay, well, maybe you don't realize how that created certain trends now, because while burning out all that stuff, even in this time,

plants were fucking adapting to become more fire resistant, and that's why you have certain dominant species of plants in certain areas where you get like eucalyptus or acacia that are like naturally fire resistant plants. Like I'm not saying fireproof, but they're more resistant to fire damage and everything.

You basically had these people influencing what would be the like Conditioning agriculture. And agriculture in the area with this fire farming by only like the only ones that would propagate were the ones that could survive these fires and everything. So it's fucking crazy just to think that they literally had a total impact on the land that they were living on. Pretty brilliant to just think of those things. I don't think we even is like the first colonies of America had figured that out. No.

Because we had developed along the lines of farming. Exactly. We only had it. certain portion of land coming over from England and everything. So like we had to make maximum usage out of that land. And in a way, you're dealing with it now with like soil erosion, all that kind of stuff. All of that land that's been farmed for so long and everything like that is losing its ability to like carry crops. Less nutrients.

We use it as ag land where you have cows, sheep, any kind of steer or anything like that that's just stomping the shit out of the land, flattening it out, making it. we can't grow anything on it again, you're going to have to move those animals in order for them to graze somewhere else. So your footprint isn't just the first field that you're in. Eventually, your footprint has to be so much larger because you have to continue to be able to feed livestock on it. Once all that's been burned out, there's no real good way to go through until the land and add nutrients back to it. Whereas they had a system that they had figured out that the animals were still off reproducing fucking in the bush

and everywhere else but then they had to find some sort of a feed again so as these places were burned out and as these new plants were coming back the animals would just come back to the same areas I don't think they had figured out hunting as far as like to be scared

to these people because again there wasn't like an overloaded population if these animals were to see a human out there it would be no different from them seeing a different animal Like, if you think of the numbers of what they said it could support, even if we hit that number, 750,000. By the time European settlers came in, Australia could support its local populace up to 750,000, spread out over what they, and again, it's not like, it's a large land. It's the sixth largest continent.

And I want to say that it's the least populent dense continent. Second, what, anarchic. Okay. It doesn't count, I know. But so you have 750,000 people spread out. over this entire country, you're not getting a ton of crossover if you want to. You're not getting an overhunting of the population. Yeah, if you're having to travel within a certain area and be like, well, we have to burn out this land first.

And then we'll hunt. And then by the time we get to the next place, it'll already have been grown up. Yeah. And everything. So they had systems to do this, but they weren't so populated that they were essentially like the land was being destroyed. They were like able to just basically like live within what the land was allowing them do and there was just a cycle going on. And you can see how they would gain such a religious respect for the lands because it was

providing life for them. It provideth and it taketh away. Yeah. So if they're good to the land, the land will be good to them and there's kind of that symbiotic feeling of being in like a perfect balance and harmony to be able to sustain this to grow a little bit. I mean, obviously to get up to 750,000, there was some population grow. The same time, though, I don't think it ever outpaced what the land could give them.

Yeah. And if you think about that, too, think of how the rest of the world is developing completely, like, unaware of Australia. It's like the Sentinel Island. And I think outside of India, like they're a solid population where they've seen nothing else change. But everywhere else in the world has grown to electric cars. Well, yeah, like leading up until the point in which the first Europeans, actually land on it, you're having everything going on with like, isn't this at the same time with the Spanish rover in South America just fucking everything up? Yeah, because surprisingly enough,

I didn't realize that Captain Cook wasn't the first guy that hit Australia. I had always thought that it was. Apparently, the Dutch, very big into it. The Dutch actually made landfall in 1606 in Cape York, and they named it New Holland right after that. How original. Yeah. Like, they're just Like, what, and I mean, we have no reason to fucking talk. We have New York, New Hampshire. New England. New England, all that kind of stuff. I'm just saying the Europeans were not clever about this shit.

It was just like, it was either named after somebody who'd given them money to do something on the voyage. Yep. Or it was named after the country that's sort of like, New Holland? And everyone's like, sure. Sure. Good. Yeah, I'm sure Cape York probably came from a York that either found it or somewhere back there. In that same year in 1606, uh, the Spanish,

explorer Louis Vaz de Torres. He reached the Torres Strait Islands and was actually able to navigate his boat between Australia and the Torres Strait Islands. So you have kind of an affinity for these big cultures that are

branching out and finding these areas. They didn't know what the fuck to do with it. That's the whole point that's like so funny about this. It's like the people that discover these places, it wasn't just like, hey, we found it and then it's settled. We found it and it's like, Like, this has never been discovered by European people before.

There's no European fucking infrastructure. They're getting there. And it's not like they're like, okay, you guys, you, you, you, you're going to stay here and start building a village. We're going to go back. Everyone on that boat was like, oh, cool, we found something. Draw it on the map. But no one's fucking staying here. Yeah.

No one's just going to stay and try to take their chances or anything like that. So where these places get discovered, they're not being settled by any means. there's also something that I maybe you know a little bit about it more than I would the Spanish and the Portuguese come from the same area of land Portugal is much smaller than Spain right it's like inside Spain if you're looking along the coast it's kind of carved out it seems Portugal had to have been bigger back then because the Portuguese were pretty on par not on par as far as the Spanish going to South America but there were a lot of Portuguese explorers yeah so they had to have had a certain amount of influence I don't know in

enough about that history. We're going to find out, of course, when we eventually do that. But I wonder if it was one of those things where Portugal and Spain were at one point together, as considered, you know, one country or whatnot. But there was a Portuguese region of that that then eventually became independent in its own thing. And that's where it kind of came from is like when someone says they were Portuguese. The reason they address them as Portuguese is because that's the region and now the country that technically they're from. So it would be like, like if there was a section in France and then

it's separate. I don't know where Bordeaux is, but imagine it was separate. You had, and it only did that 300 years ago, you had people from Bordeaux that were like explorers or famous for something. Three hundred years ago, they would have been like French adventure

or French philosopher. And then once it became, they would be like a Bordeanese guy. I don't know if it fucking works like that, but like I do know that there's a lot of distinction especially in like the seafaring time frame and discovery where like it's very distinct between Spanish

and Portuguese. And I do believe there was a Portuguese flag that had been planted on the western side of Australia. The western side, and it sort of makes sense I guess where you think about shipping lanes where the western side kind of went unfounded for a really long time. Like it was mapped. But it wasn't necessarily

it was like the last place to get populated as far as colonies moving across the continent. Well and I mean if you think about it, it's not just like the first people that discover this, they have no clue what the fuck this might be. Yeah, it could go on forever, it might. So, like, you're finding this country, and you're

like, okay, first of all, the only thing that's on the map is, like, everything that you've already been to. Uh-huh. So at this point, the map is just kind of blank at this point, so you do have people going on to try to discover these places, but then when you land on it, it's like, we don't know if this attaches to anything.

Did we just find, like, the end of a giant bay around Asia that comes all the way down? Is this the other side of the world? Is this the other set our land mass what happened exactly and so you have several voyages that are then mapping this which how the fuck would you even get close to being able to like map this kind of stuff like is the earliest drawing just the most like well we think it's kind of shaped like and then as time you know gets over it's like now we're mapping closer to the coast now we're mapping and then you get these like super like almost accurate drawings of like these seafaring people it was a while before they even went

Like, they found it on the northern side of it. Yeah. And the western, you know, west, northwest. Northwestern side, but it's not like they were like, so let's immediately head south and see where this thing ends. It was like, we just discovered something new. We should probably report this back. And to be honest, it's been a little fucking dicey just sailing out into the fucking ocean and not being able to see anything and hoping something's here. So then you finally get someone who's like, now I'm going to go completely south and go around and see if this ain't connects anything else.

And so it was a while before they even determined. that like, oh shit, this isn't connected to anything. Yeah. That was the other thing that I wondered to is when they are going around and they're mapping, do you leave something out on the beach to know when you get back to the starting point? Because eventually all beach has to probably look the same, right? So would you leave... A flag.

Yeah, a flag, a fire, something like that to be like, this is a starting point. If we get back to it, we know that we've cruised around this whole entire place. And you're only going to go as far as like, okay... Rations can take you. Yeah, I'm like, okay, guys, the lands. seems to be going on, but like, let's fucking just like, we haven't seen our wives in a long time. Let's get fucking back home. We're running out of food, a lot of scurgy going on. We're already going to be famous. Yeah. We discovered a new country or new continent.

And that's sort of, it was broken up in the way that it was mapped to where the Dutch had mapped out the western or northern coastlines. But seeing as they never created a settlement, they weren't going to explore anything else, they took off, didn't really do a whole lot with it. And that's where we see the finally Great Britain, James Cook, comes in all the way in 1770s. So this is 1606's first landfall. We're 100 in, what, 64 years later? Yeah. So technically, and I read a fact that like, so they said that there were European people inhabiting the island, but it was like a technicality.

So like in 1629 after, because it was in 1606 is when the Dutch saw it. Yep. So 1609, there was like a mutiny on a ship called the Batavia, and they marooned a bunch of the mutineers on Australia. And so technically they're like, well, if you want to say those people are the first permanent European inhabitants. But it was just a bunch of dudes and they probably got fucked. They probably died quickly. Yeah, just a different way to kill them, a slow way to kill them by marooning them on a place that they didn't really understand. So,

James Cook's whole thing I can't wait to do a Cook episode I think you know how his life ends Dude this is like It's 250 years ago right 1770 and if we're in 2000 If we were in 2020 Right now

230 years away from the millennia So 253 years 54 years now Yeah Pretty crazy to think that that's the span And this is 1776 Was our in America our declaration.

So like just in the span, and this is, here's the biggest thing, like I want to try to kind of impart on this episode is the known history versus the unknown history of this. The picture that can be painted about like the Aboriginal people and everything like that, it spans such a long time and everything that you're not going to get like a point to point history on it, like in this year and in this year and in this year. those people inhabited this country peacefully and should have like if you're looking over the span of it like maybe they should have just been left yeah great experiment just leave and be exactly check in on them maybe develop some sort of a language where you can speak to them let them know hey

we're going to protect you and not let anybody else mess with you but that wasn't that wasn't the sentiment of the age and so we now have australia as essentially a multicultural you know country, continent, everything like that because of what's going to happen going forward. So it's without disparaging one or disparaging the other, of course, not or anything like that. It's just that one essentially has more information.

One era has more information. It just happens to be literally compared to 60,000 years. We now spend another hour talking about the last, like, 2% of, like, the known history of this country. Yeah, essentially... It's the same story of America. Essentially, if Australia was the statue of David

white people is like David's right butt cheek. Yes. That's, it's a very small. It's even like maybe like an index finger. Like the tip of his hog or something. Yes, exactly. So,

yeah, go ahead. James Cook, like I was saying, I think you know how his life ends. Very unfortunately in Hawaii after abducting a Hawaiian king. Prior to all that kind of stuff,

he was a part of the British Navy and he had worked as well. way up. He was very, very good at what he did. In order to go on this HMS endeavor scientific trip in 1770, they had actually made him a colonel. Another question I have for you, I'm sure that you understand this better. What the fuck is a lieutenant? Is there like a lieutenant and a right tenant? Or they're like in charge of the ship? It's the, um, it's lieutenant, but it's just the way that they pronounce it. Okay. Yeah, like if you watch them like British war movies, like British accents and like war

movies and everything, it's always left tenant. I didn't know if there's a left tenant and a right tenant or what, but it just, so he became the lieutenant of this HMS endeavor trip. This trip was created, and again, shocking that this is so long ago, but this is what they did. This trip was to actually map the flight or I guess the movement of Venus across the sun. So in order to be able to tell different sort of navigations to figure out, like how far away we were from the sun

to then be able to pinpoint navigations better. So essentially to create like faster shipping lanes. It was all related to like merchantism and shit like that. And that to me seems crazy that that's what they were doing back in the 1700s was to go map Venus's movement across the sun.

One of their additional missions was to find this in search for Terra Australis. Terror Australis was this belief that went back, I want to say it was like to the 5th century AD or BC or CE.

Well, I mean, I'm guessing, I don't know what the kind of sharing of information or like how quickly things could spread through the maritime rumor mill or anything like that. So you have the Dutch 1606. So they go back and they report,

hey, we found something. So obviously there's some Dutch action going on. Yeah. Maybe not sending people down there all the time, but they're like, hey, we have this. But at that point, it's like, well, what the fuck are we going to do with it right now? We're busy with other shit up here. Like we're, we'll get it. We'll get to it when we have time. So you then have, you know, Spanish explorer, what is Luis Torres? He's the one that does the Torres Straits and everything like that in the same year. So then the Spanish are aware that, oh, shit, there's this stuff here too. Again, it's one of those things where the Spanish are like,

we're busy up here. We know there's something there. It'll wait for us. We're busy still conquering the fucking South America's people and everything. We'll get a new place for us to fuck up is on the checklist now. We got some prior engagements. We have to go through first. And so I wonder though if like, because you're saying

James Cook to try to search for signs, they knew something was down there obviously. There had to have been some way over the more than 150 years, 160 years that this had gone on that just I don't know if maybe just movies and shit

like where you see sailors and like talking about stuff like I heard this guy from this ship he was on this voyage and everything I would imagine that like everyone that was on this these voyages maybe then kind of like went off and like served on another ship and served on another ship and they heard story about this so there had to have been some indication that the British knew

like you're going to go search for signs of this place we know it's down there but try to find it and then claim it yeah and part of the reason looking for Terra Australis, and I'm sure as you were talking about, the Dutch had had news of it, the Spanish had started drawing it on maps, that kind of a thing. But in order for them to get to the shipping lanes into trade with Asia, they had to figure out a way to go around the entire continent to get there. So if they had Terra Australis down there and they had a place to where they could have essentially like a port to either refuel,

not necessarily refuel, but new goods and shit like that in order to make these voyages a little bit easier. Basically, a place that was further away from England was going to be better because if it was more of the midway point, then it wouldn't be as dangerous to take these trips all the way back over to Asia. Well, and at this point, too, they're looking at it in a way of like, okay, we already have the Americas. We got this set up and everything like that.

I guess the Spanish and made their claim on South America. So that was probably like the British were like, eh, we're going to steer out of that. And they were like, well, what if we keep going further east? And then we find something that then we can claim as our own. And then we have like this outpost here. And in the Americas, we have this one here. So yeah, it was exactly colonialism and all that kind of shit.

There's no other way to go ahead and dress it up. But. So the endeavor maps out. Venus gets that taken care of, takes off from, I believe it was Africa somewhere around Madagascar, heads out. They're heading it that way. They're not heading the South American route? I don't think so.

I think, because they said that they had to head west. So I'm assuming it was probably coming off of Africa. They had to head west for what? To hit Australia. That's east. Would it be east from Africa or is Africa more over the top of Australia? Nope, it would still, because if you're looking at a map, even down, down and you go west, it doesn't become east until you're past it.

Until you're further west than it, it doesn't become east. I think based on what I know about when they first sent the first fleet down there, they were sailing down around South America. And that's how they discovered the West Coast, because if they would have landed on the East Coast, they would have just claimed that. That's what I fucked up. So after leaving, finding Venus, then they hit New Zealand. then they moved west from New Zealand

and found Australia so that's what it was so Cook ended up mapping out all of New Zealand rode all the way around it I'm not sure how long of a voyage that would be to map all of New Zealand one of the cool things about Cook that we'll talk about more in the Cook episode

but he sort of figured out a way to stamp out scurvy on boats and he had three different methods that he brought one of them was like a he had fruit obviously because that's how we figured out that scurvy fixes fruit vitamin C. He had.

Scurvy fixes fruit. I can't fucking, what's beer made of? Hopes yeast. I think it. It was malt is what it was. There was a malt that they had taken down there that essentially finally became like alcohol on boats was through this malt that they were trying to use it rid of the scurvy.

That didn't work out. So then they added the fruit to it and figured out that that was the scurvy fix. He had something. else that you'd taken down there with him. But this being a scientific voyage, there were scientists that came on. There were botanists. There were people that were studying sort of these

different things that they were running into. So eventually, once they finally hit Terror Australis, or what they thought was Terror Astralis, they ran into the southeastern coast of Australia. April 29th, 1770, Cook and his crew end up making landfall at a place that they named

Botany Bay. They landed on a place called Silver Beach. The reason that it was name botany bay was because did you remember how many specimens they brought back? I can't remember the name, but that's, it was enough specimens that the botanist brought back that Captain Cook was like, well, fuck, I need to name it botany bay because there's so much of this shit they're bringing back. Just like, yeah, imagine that. You're seeing things like, and the same thing probably happened to a degree over like when they discovered like, not discovered, but when they colonized the Americas, when they were like, these are new trees.

This is this and it had to, but like for one voice. to be like, we need to fucking grab everything. And him be like, Botany Bay, I guess. Not to mention, this wasn't like the number one reason that they went on this voyage. This was just like a separate kind of side mission that they had found. Once they got through with Botany Bay. Enough to where no one even knows about the Venus shit. Yeah.

If you're talking about the voyage of the HMS endeavor for James Cook, it seemed like he was just going to do this. Yeah. And he ran into literally like what Australia is known for because they went ahead and departed on May 24th. And the endeavor then promptly ran a ground on the Great Barrier Reef. So not knowing what it was, they thought that it was like a glimmer of sunshine off of the water. And it just turned out to be the Great Barrier Reef that they ran a ground on. Luckily, there was enough reef that got stuck in the bow of the boat. In the hole?

Yeah, in the hall that they were able to limp back to, a different part of Australia. They fixed the boat. I think they said all in total with the time that they spent in Botany Bay and then after they ran aground on the Great Barrier Reef, they'd only spent about 70 days

on Australia before heading back to Great Britain. So they were basically what they were doing in order to hit that is before they started heading back, they had like Adam was saying, they had landed almost in like

southeastern Australia. That's where you, you get essentially like new, what is it? New South Wales. New South Wales. And that's where they named it. It was after they claimed that East Coast for Great Britain. They went ahead and named it all New South Wales.

So now you start traveling before they're going to come back. They're like, okay, well, and at this point when he landed, I'm not sure what gave him the indication. He's like, maybe he sent a scouting party south and maybe then he went north. He's like, well, we ran into this. You know, it starts, the islands start breaking up in the south. But like if we head north, we're just coasting coastline. Yeah.

Because he sailed up essentially the coastline and was still doing all that mapping to see about how big South New Wales is. It's basically like, here's our new land. Let's see how far this thing goes. Let's see what the bounty is. Because like the Great Barrier Reef, if you were to take Australia and cut it straight down the middle, the Great Barrier Reef goes from about the midpoint of the western coast up to the very top of it. Damn, that thing is great. Okay. Before we get on, can we catch you a bathroom break?

We can. We'll be right back. Oh my God, Adam. What is that up in the sky? It's a bird. It's a plane. It's socials. Oh, my God.

It's faster than Instagram. That's historically high pod on Instagram. More powerful than X? It's historically high, historically H.I. on X? Able to leave tall threads in a single bound. Back to historically high pod on threads. And I mean, I guess there's still Gmail, right? We got that too.

That is historically high podcast at gmail.com. All right, guys, back to the show. All right, and we're back. I do want to reiterate, again, that this is the history of Australia as we interpret it. Yeah. Everything. I know we're not going to get to everything, and there's so much more culture to this. And we could say that for so many different countries and all that kind of stuff.

So this is just the stuff that, like, we find the... most interesting about Australia and kind of just like its history and how it developed up to a certain point. Again, this is by no means to say like, we tried to cram everything about Australia within like two, two and a half hours. No. This is a historically high comprehensive outline of Australia. And from everything that we learn, I did a shitload of research and I'm sure you did too for this. The story of Australia is so fucking cool. And it's, to me, I believe that Australia is probably a place where just humans shouldn't have evolved or I guess not a, well, humans definitely should have evolved there because they were able to do it and figure it out.

I do believe like Chris is talking about earlier, maybe we should have just left it alone. If you look at it from a weird perspective, it's like the same way we were saying with the Aboriginal people to see what would have developed in just like a society that just like continue to be like relatively like in the grand scheme of things peaceful and like with the land and every thing versus what happened to the people you saw that were brought from you know england and all that kind of stuff to australia and how they developed into what it appears to be a very fucking cool yeah like society that's i'm saying is like is there's something about being isolated and like being a place that doesn't have a ton of people that just develops you into a fucking like better

more laid back fucking society is it is it like weirdly enough is it the amount of people that like a civilization or government has to look after that eventually everyone's like there's too fucking many of us for you guys to pay attention and make everybody happy. Yeah, just be cool. I'm sure that some of that sort of lenience and understanding comes from what we're about to talk about

with being born out of a penal colony where everything is looked at and everything is taxed by the crown and just all that shit to where you had it so bad in the beginning where you're like, let's chill out. Maybe let's cool things down a little bit. You're far enough away from mom and dad that you get to kind of maybe do some shit.

Like they'll check in on you every now and then and to make sure it's not going completely off the rails. But then you get to kind of like develop and have like that cool time when they're not around. You figure it out. Cool uncle shows up, teaches you some things about life. And this is something that in learning about Australia, I sort of knew that there had to have been a part of this that formed our country. but the reason that the penal colonies showed up in Australia was because of the good old American Revolution. Yeah, so 1770, Cook finds Australia,

maps and everything, sells back, New South Wales, Botany Bay, all that good stuff. You then have 1776 Declaration of Independence. Big one for us. And at that point, when we were like, had the Revolutionary War and we separated, it was like, oh, yeah, I didn't know this, but we used to be the penal colony

where Britain sent all the fucking people they didn't want. They sent them to the Americas. So guess what motherfuckers? We're not taking any more your riffraff. We're also the children of criminals and the ancestors of criminals. And guess what? United States, that's right.

That's where our ancestors, a lot of them come from, is Britain, when they had the criminals and shit, we were the fucking test. testing grounds for just send them all over fucking here. Yeah, we were the ultimate beneficiaries of the servitude that these penal colonies would build Australia with. And they looked at it and they said, okay, well, shit, we just lost our largest penal colony. We're going to need a new place. And they're like, New South Wales. And they're like, who's that in the back? He's like, yeah, so apparently we discovered this area

that's even further away than the Americas. And yeah, we close. claimed it as our land. And so why don't we just start sending the guys there? He's like, you know what? Sounds like a good idea. Well, the best part of it was there were other places that they had looked at sending. I think one of them was in the Bay of Bengal. There was something else around India.

There were other places where these penal colonies were to be established. But because of... Too close to Europe. Well... Let's put him on an island. The best part about it was Cook landed in a place that he named Botany Bay. So all the information that came back from the very sparse travels of Australia was that it was this great land with all these specimens and all this life on it. Not understanding that Botany Bay was like a thumbnail of what a very inhospitable, very tough climate to live in was.

It's all green, guys. Yeah, it's cool. Stuff will grow like fucking crazy here. We'll start a penal colony. Totally be self-sufficient. They'll be able to grow all their own food and all that stuff. They'll build that port for our trading to be able to come in. into and re-plish.

We'll have that prison labor. And when I say penal colony, I think it also becomes there's like this condensation where it's just like, it is not like murders and rapists being sent here. These are people that like, because of like the overcrowding and like the British prisons and all that system, like the minor

fucking infractions that made you a criminal. There were people that fucking like stole cheese that were fucking sent to like the Australian penal colony. And so at the same time we're like I hope it's a common misconception. but like it's all like no it was found ended by murders and rapist and all like the

worst it wasn't so what happened they just killed those guys yeah they just fucking killed those guys those guys got the death penalty yes there was something I want to say not to cut you off but I think I heard one of the historians say there were over 200 crimes in England that were punishable by a capital punishment 200 crimes were able to kill you

but there were so many of them that they were able to commute them down to these being sent to penal colonies. What the fuck? What did they call them? Misdemeanors? No, like the punishment. It was not being shipped. Transport. They called it a transport punishment to head to these penal colonies.

And there was shit. The same lady that was talking about all the capital punishment offenses, she said that the oldest documentation that they had of the youngest person that was sent to a penal colony, Australia was a nine-year-old, who was a chimney sweep at the time of being nine-year-old while being an orphan had broken into a house and he had stolen some clothing

and maybe or maybe not a revolver who's to say he's nine dude there was like a 65-year-old woman and this is 65 in 17 like 80 yeah pretty old pretty old and got sent because she stole like four pence worth of fucking cheese or something so here's here's my whole thought on it

is you just kill everyone that's doing these 200 capital offenses and everything. But you are basically trying to, you're conscripting a workforce is what you're doing. So it's like, hey, we have all these people that have all these tiny minor infractions that would get you like a fucking probation now or any of that shit. And it's like,

yeah, we'll just send them to a penal colony. And basically what they have to do is they're not just going to live and be able to enjoy it. It's like a work camp. and then they're going to have to work to build the port and the harbor and the colony for then all the people we're going to send down. And at the same time, yeah, maybe then it'll, like, grow the population and that kind of stuff. But, like, these people were just, like, criminals of, like, minor, you know, in consequence.

But then, like, down here, you're then getting them meeting each other and meeting, like, another round of, like, people being brought in on ships and everything. And so these people will eventually, like, be acquitted of their stuff or serve their sentences. And then they'll have started families and doing all that kind of shit. So it's the weirdest fucking thing. If it's not get these criminals out of here, it's like we have found a way to basically get free labor out of these people that should not be shipped out of their own country to build this fucking colony so we can start like selling more shit around the world. Well, and it goes a step further. And we'll get to it here in a second.

but essentially January 26th, 1788, the first penal colony was established, excuse me, Sydney Cove, criminals, officials, military personnel, because there was going to need to be protection from the locals, essentially, from the aboriginals that were probably not too pumped. And to make sure that these fucking people were working. Yeah, and building shit. Like, you had to, it's not just like, hey, we're dropping you off then for yourselves. It's like, no, we're going to put you people to work. another group that came down was a group called the free settlers free settlers obviously weren't criminals

they were just people that were brought down there to kind of help start this society homesteaders uh huh yeah essentially yeah but these free settlers weren't going to be the people that did the work because you weren't going to send them to Australia and be like hey do you want a better life like yeah okay we'll head down to Australia like oh what's it like in the British or uh well we don't really know

um it could be better it could be worse we're not really sure Oh, it's definitely going to be worse than this. So think of like, it could be like this, but with like out all the niceties. Or it could be worse without all the niceties. Yeah, or we'll send you down there with a bunch of people that you can put into servitude to be able to make your life easier. But we'll give you people that will work your land and you'll be able to make a profit in a better life for yourself. Yeah, essentially that's a possibility. So these criminals were sent down there to basically work off their debt to society.

They were sent down in... Was there a way back? that's what I'm getting to. Okay. They were sent down there in sentences of seven years, 15 years, and then life. Or 17 years, 14 years, and then life. So it was kind of like the sevens

of what they were going to do until they just kept reoffending until it was life. Once you were able to serve all that time, there was no transport back. The only way that you could ever get back to England was to be able to get hired on by one of the transport groups

that were coming down fairly infrequently. Or you were able to pay your fare to be able to travel back, if you just got out of servitude not being paid, you're not going to have any money to. So what they would do was they would stick around and they were called, the word escapes me. But it wasn't in corsets or something like that. I don't know why the fuck I can't remember it now. But they were like a second class of people that were then able to start their own lives as free men. But they also carried the mark of being like essentially an ex-con.

So they were looked at lower in society. They were able to be paid less to do different jobs. There's a different social class. Yeah. But because there was so much land that the crown had, they knew that these people who had just been essentially servants for these other people that were making goods and kind of starting to figure it out. And already knowing how to possibly work the land and be familiar with the environment and like

what works and doesn't work? If we start handing out land to these newly freed men, they'll be able to push on and go further and to make this colony a better place, but we're still going to remind them that they were prisoners to start out with, so we're not going to make it too good for them. But we don't have to pay them as much. Exactly, yeah. And the wool industry just boomed early on.

They'd figured out that this was a really, really good climate for sheep herding. And so they were able to spread out on the swast of land at the loss of this aboriginian, Aboriginal land that had already been cultivated and kind of built to be the way that it was. There were frontier wars where they were pushing out and they were taking other lands away from the aboriginal people.

Well, I mean, with that, because I don't want to get too far off of like the actual like first contact and everything when they came down with the first fleet, initially things like didn't start out that way. No. So when Phillips came down, yeah Philip came down with the first fleet he came down with like hundreds of of prisoners essentially

um I think like half as many or maybe a quarter many what they called marine so it was like soldiers people that could do admin and all that kind of stuff that could like garden help run everybody that fucked up bad enough up north they were sent on these terrible details see beautiful australia new south wales um and then you had people that were like could go down there for like set up like medical facilities and like as as much as they could at that point things that they would need to essentially be self-sufficient while they kept bringing down more people and making it more developed and you know more developed so during this initial landing they went into botany bay because that was really the only place that they had identified as you know and really

mapped out that they could land on because it looked awesome and so they get there philps is like okay uh we're going to send out the boats they anchor offshore they come in on the boats and he basically is sending out search parties and he's like we need to find fresh water it's a freshwater source is going to be the key determining factor of if this is going to work or not they find like a small stream but they also run into some of the indigenous people and I'm trying to remember the name of the tribe I should have remember this it was the no noati I want to say no it started with I want to say like an oh I'll come back oh the E-O-R-A.

Okay. E-O-R-A. Sorry about that. But yeah, it was the E-O-R-P people. So they were like the known like Aboriginal tribe in the area. And initially, like, it wasn't hostile. But he said that they just looked at him, like, really kind of like confused and, like, curious about what he was.

And they were able to, like, establish some type of, like, understanding of things, like, very, very rudimentary. And they at that point just, like, saw these people. They didn't really understand that, like, like, oh, we're here to stay or anything. So it was just a curiosity as it would be and everything. He'd be cautious of it, of course. But they said that they're white skin motherfuckers doing.

Exactly. Don't they know how it gets? They, they, there's like record of them like observing like, because they looked at their outfits and they're wearing like the tighter. They're wearing pants. They're wearing, it's not just like the Aboriginal people, they had no need for, like they might wear like a cloth or something like that. But because of like the climate and everything, you weren't required.

to really wear anything. So you would be maybe even like walking around naked and everything. So even pants to them the way they were describing. They're like they have like second skins that they wear like the way that they were translating it. And then they were talking about how like they have to peel off one skin in order to take a shit. Because like they would be in the bushes hiding and like, you know, some guy would go off to take a shit and they'd just be watching him. Yeah. And I guess if you have no understanding of what clothing works and so you are just pulling down a layer of skin. Like in the curiosity was there to where they were like, it yeah, he has to pull off a second. He's like, but weirdly enough, like, their shit looks

like our shit. Like it smells, it just smells like shit. They're like, so even just the observance of like, so we kind of can tell these are people, but like, these aren't people that we've ever like seen before. Well, Phillips and them start moving more because start, um, actually sorry, they don't move into body bay because they're unable to find a water source. So Phillips is like, hey, you go this way down the coast, you go to this way down the coast, we're going to look for a more appropriate spot. They end up finding Port Jackson, which is in Sydney Cove. And then that's where they established the penal colony just because it was more sustainable. There was a larger freshwater source. They were shown it by the Eora that were in Sydney because it wasn't far from Botany Bay.

So it was still the Eora tribe. And they like showed them basically like a fresh water stream. But then as soon as they started moving people and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. like why are you bringing all these fucking people in off these boats? So like, oh yeah, like we're... We were cool with the five of you. Yeah, like, we're here. You're like, oh, you're here? Like, yeah, we're just going to be setting up shop.

So that was January 26th, 1788. It's basically what's now referred to as, I think, Australia is like their national day. They also sort of... The trip over was so much different, I think, than a lot of these voyages with slave labor or anything like that. That's pretty much what it was. It was just slave labor, but it was their own people. But in order to get these guys off the ground or get these guys on the ground and get them running,

they had to take pretty good care of them on the trip over. And on the first trip over, they were given almost the same rations as like the military personnel were. Because they had to feed them enough to where once they got there, they weren't sick, they weren't starving. There were still medical professionals on the boat that were taking care of people. be fit to dig. Uh-huh. Exactly. Yeah. So it wasn't that they were trying to take care of them because they were other humans.

They were trying to take care of them so then they could run them into the ground once they hit the ground. One of like the fucking rookie sailors that gets assigned to this is like, why are they fucking eating as much as we are? Like they're fucking prisoners. Like we're the soldiers. He's like, when you get over there, we land, are you going to be digging and building stuff? Do you want to do that? He's like, well, no. He's like, that's what they're going to do.

You're not going to need the energy. You're going to be watching them do it. that. Then you're still getting the same amount of food as they are. I did hear that when they were sending the initial first fleet over, they actually stopped in Buenos Aires. So they stopped in South America because the trip was so long that as they're sailing down, they reached like the equator and everything and they had some issues with disease because as soon as you get that warm weather climate, like the doldrums where you're not traveling very fast, apparently it just runs fucking crazy. Well, and all those germs are most active. And this wasn't just done with one shit. And this wasn't just done

with one ship. This is like a fleet of ships coming down to support this. So they stopped in Buenos Aires. They said within, oh, and there were men and women. Yeah. Not a ton of women, but there were... I think they said out of like the, let's just say the number I think was around like maybe like five

between four and five hundred prisoners. I think like 70 to 80 of them, maybe a little bit more were women. So they still did have women down there, which you know that they did that because they understood how like the colonization process worked, right? If it was just about the work, they wouldn't send women down there, I don't

think. Well, there's still sort of a, like, there is an other side to just doing the labor, because there's still things that have to happen, there's still laundry that has to happen, there's still food that has to be made, like there's another side of the coin. I was thinking of how many quality works, but it wasn't going to be like, the woman would probably do those roles while the men were doing the hard shit. Yeah, that's true. But they actually did have. like not necessarily factories but areas where women would be working out of kind of all in an area yeah so I'm looking up just because it feels like we probably should have known how many were in the first fleet that came down

almost 800 people were carried on six convict transport ships was the first fleet that ended up coming down almost 200 them who were women yeah So essentially what, a quarter of the prisoners were women. They knew what they were doing, apparently. So they set up in, yeah, Port Jackson and Sydney Cove. And where were we before this? Oh, yeah. So once the spread happened, once these people were becoming free,

the second wave that were coming in fared a lot worse than the first wave. There was a lot of disease that hit. the second group of transports. I guess the second and third and kind of everybody after that were independent contractors. They weren't necessarily military contractors that were bringing these transports down.

East India trading company type stuff. Yeah, it could be something like that. They ran into a lot of disease and blunder. The bad part about this second wave that was coming down was they were bringing resources down from the motherland into Australia. So everything that they were bringing down that didn't make it just affected the first

group of people that came down because they weren't getting all the supplies that they had needed probably like refills of medicine and other shit like that well in addition to that the issues that they ran into was that like you were saying the botany bay was kind of just a very like weird snippet yeah they got lucky hidden body bay so like sydney co had fresh water everything but a lot of the things that they were counting on weren't there that you probably should account on if you're going to just a completely like unsettled place. But they were having problems for like, even like agriculture and things like that. Just because like they weren't used to the land being like this.

So that's why also like I think the wool industry really came out because it wasn't agriculture base, but it was still like a tradable good and like a food source. They could send it back to Great Britain and they could make clothing out of it at their industry or at their factories. Getting back to these freedmen, they were being given. these swaths of land that then they could work on, they were given it for free. Unfortunately, Great Britain being the money hungry people that they were, that's why they sent people to colonies so then they could make more money off of the goods and they could tax them. They

realized that handing out free land probably wasn't the best look because if you were a free settler coming down to get free land, you would almost want to prioritize better swaths of land for them. So, in true British fashion, the reason why we are an independent country today, they started basically taxing this land and selling this land to these people who didn't have any money because they were just becoming a free end. They are going to have money. Yeah.

Or they're going to die and we're going to just take the land back and get someone else. We're going to get our money. So as they were doing that, there were people that were called squatters. And the squatters were sheep herders or ranchers who were working their own land. as that land became not enough of a food source, then they were starting to break away into other areas. And when they would break away into the other areas, that would then degrade the land

that the crown was trying to sell to new settlers or to new freemen. And they had always had an issue with that. These people that were called squatters, though, were more of the richer upper echelon of society. So you have the people that are there that already have enough money that are starting to push back against the crown

because those are the people that are sending shit back to Great Britain. It's a weird way to think about it, of them having more money. It's almost like black market stuff. Yeah. But people needed what they had because it was so isolated that they could only rely on people. So regards of how they were raising the sheep or doing all this kind of stuff, they still had them. Mm-hmm. And people still needed them.

So you have people that essentially, like criminals that are getting rich already. And that was sort of a, if you could get on with some of these, different groups that had large sheep populations or anything like that, you could start to make your money. And if that was good enough and you didn't want to branch out, you could just continue to work for these people. And I say criminals is in how the crown viewed them and everything like that because if they were squatting on the land.

But at the same time, if you're down there, you've already been fucked over enough of already being down there. If you didn't go down there as part of the military or whatever, you're in now at this point trying to make a life for yourself and you're trying to succeed and you're being taxed. telling you like from how many thousands of the bottle's way, hey, you're not allowed to do that on this land that. None of us have ever actually seen or done anything about, but you can't use that. It's like, um, fuck you, mate.

Is this where cunt came in? Had to be so often used it. It was like these British cunts. Yeah. Any sort of word like that that we find sort of offensive was something that they were hurling at the Englishmen back then. And that's why it's so commonplace now is they just use it interchangeably now. Yeah. That's sort of a delineator that I've tried to figure out.

We kind of talked about it before the episode is, when did these people become Australian over being British, English, Irish? That was the other part. They sent down a lot of Irish people, which seems like a death sentence sending an Irish person to Australia. I think there were two different in a weird way. I don't know if this is actual factual. If we have any of our Australian listeners,

please let us know if we fucked up in any way on this. Yeah. But what I'm saying is I see two different. delineations of a societal path. I see the people coming down there that are coming down there to establish industry. Like the people, the volunteers and the voluntold.

Yeah. Is who it is. You then have this entire society who over the course of, you know, these years and generations are coming off of their sentences, not being able to go back, of course not being able to go back home, basically trying to make a life for themselves there, meeting other people that are doing the same, their

growing families, all this kind of stuff. But you always have, like you were saying, you always have this background of like, what, what branch were you when you came to Australia? Were you part of this branch? Were you part of this branch? And so you had then the development of people coming down there because it was profitable and everything. So you have like the people that are actually doing all the work and then you have like an aristocratic or aristocratic type sect two of the people that are like coming down to tell you how to do everything. Yeah. And maybe just you saying that kind of of sparks out in my head, but maybe that's a delineation between Australian and European.

The Australian people weren't paid to be there. The European people were paid to be there. Yeah. And that could be kind of the breakdown of once you were there to have to earn your living instead of being able to be paid to be there. I wonder if that's a thing. That would be a cool thing. Because like we're saying, we were fully in acknowledgement that the people, I'm sure there were some bad people sent down there. But for the most part, not even close. Like to, they made mistake and everything. Like the people that I see those people as being the more prominent of the Australian people. And also being like, we got screwed over by the crown.

Uh-huh. We're now Australians. Yeah, we're going to form our own land now. And that being a point of pride for people and everything like that is be like, we were the people that made something of when we got here. Point of pride, we built our entire country on that point of pride. We did. But no, no, no, but they can have that legitimately.

Yeah. Ours is more of a, the thing that we have is definitely conflated in our heads and been altered and twisted. Theirs is just simply tracing it back 250 years ago or less than that and being like, oh yeah, my three or four-time great-grandpa was one of the members of the penal quality. He's still a loaf of bread, but he also like survived and raised a family here and now like we love us. You know, we, we are Australians. Yeah, I could see that as a pretty good delineation point. These Europeans coming in brought the exact same trouble and strife that we were talking about earlier. It's funny that we kind of made that up to that point because it shows so much in this next kind of coming age.

There was a group called the New South Wales Corps that came down and it was essentially the military that was there to keep everybody at bay to make sure that everybody was working and to keep them safe. They became assholes real quick because another one of the industry. that came out of Australia was the rum trade. I don't know if there was a lot of sugar cane around or what they had, maybe molasses to make rum, but it became big business down there. And this New South Wales Corps basically created a monopoly with the rum trade, and they were able to do certain things as far as controlling, like, how much livestock you would be able to get at what price. So they could hand out more livestock. They could lower it down to sort of raise the price. and kind of, like, they could affect the economy by how they were able... Making things more advantageous for them in different ways. To treat other people. And all this, there was a litany of governors that went down. It would take us three hours to go through the amount of governors that came down from England

to run this penal colony that branched out into six different colonies. But there was a guy that was named Governor William Bly. And when he came down, he knew that. that this New South Wales Corps needed a lesson in how to treat people a little bit better. One of the things that they were doing

was the sheep farmers were being held kind of down by the core because the price of mutton is that what you get from sheep? Yes. The price of mutton

was controlled by how much of it made to the market and how much was it could be sent to wherever it could be sent to. Yeah. That was what it was. Well, I don't see the range on sending mutton. Mutton probably wouldn't too far, no. No, I'm thinking mutton had to, I'm hoping mutton was just something that was traded within the colonies there.

And you're not getting like overseas mutton. Could be. But as they were able to kind of price gouge, make that price inflate, the people that were eating it there wouldn't be able to afford it. So then they would go hungry. Bligh didn't really like that. He also didn't like what they were doing with rum because the core had created a section of the economy where you could take rum

as payment for any sort of essential goods. And so it would all flow back to them because they were the ones that were controlling the trade. Would you rather have money or money if you need to drink a little bit of the money? Yeah. I don't have a bottle and this is still worth half a bottle of money. Did you really have alcoholic rations?

or would you rather have regular stuff? And alcohol, I'm sure, was just as fun as it is back then as it is now probably more fun based upon what they had to deal with when they weren't drinking. So he shut that down pretty quick. As soon as he shut that down, January 26, 1808, there was an event known as the Rum rebellion where it was the first armed coup that happened.

This whole New South Wales Corps overthrew the members of the government. they arrested Bly. Bly was eventually returned to England. And on his way back up, they were talking about what kind of a tyrannical leader he was and how he was trying to basically shape the colonies or colony in his own image. When he got back there and was questioned, but he was like, no, these core guys are assholes down there. They're the ones that are running shit. They're the ones that are making sure that everything flows through them so they can be stupid, fat, and happy while everybody else is struggling.

eventually the Corps was disbanded and a guy named George Johnston took over as governor of New South Wales he was the lieutenant governor before so that was kind of like the first uprising that happened within I'm sure there were other like penal colony issues with laborers and criminals

and all that kind of stuff but this was the people that were sent down to protect the government then tried to overthrow the government because they didn't like that the government was impeding on their side hustle Well, that's the other thing, too, is like, if you're thinking about the oversight that's down here, this place is still in its fucking wild, wild west. It's in its infancy, yeah. Yeah, it's, and so, like, things are uncertain.

If you have control of any type of military power down here, even a little bit, there is no one to challenge you. You are the only military power, and so if you want to dictate your will, you're going to be able to. Because guess what? Even if, you know, word gets out, help is how many months? away. For anyone they can get out and for them to race shoot it and send another fleet down here, you can already have yourself established in that time frame.

It takes you weeks to get a letter back up to England, let alone them sending support down. So we do get essentially like, you know, Great Britain expanding its land claims in Australia. They start colonies all across the country. So essentially like it's going to start

just on the West Coast and kind of move on the East Coast. Sorry about that. Yeah, East Coast. And 90 percent of Australia's population is located within like the coastal regions. And you can kind of see, I even think this is just in the naming of like the territories in Australia, that you can see where the influence of Great Britain just kind of maybe stopped. So you have on the eastern side, like starting from north to south, you have Queensland, of course, Queensland. You're going to have to the south of that New South Wales, which was the first established. And like Brisbane,

is in Queensland Sydney is in New South Wales and then also the capital Melbourne? No, is Canberra. Okay. And the reason that it's Canberra is apparently I heard, you know, again, we're trying to be as accurate as possible

that between Sydney and Melbourne there was an argument of like who should be the actual capital. Sydney was the first one established but essentially at the time of, I don't know if it was the gold rush or something else, but Melbourne then became the richest city for a time frame the richest city in the world. Damn, really?

And had a huge economic boom to where it was more populated than Sydney. And they're like, well, we're the more powerful city. I mean, we should definitely be the capital when they were going to establish one. So Canberra is in the middle of them. Okay. And so that was kind of the negotiated. They also had Van Diemen's land too, Tasmania. Correct.

So then down below New South Wales, you have Victoria. So you can definitely tell where the inspiration for the naming of those territories. Now we just move over to the side. we have the northern territory, South Australia and the West and Western Australia. They're like, no, as we're spreading out, we're even getting less, we're even getting less influenced by the crown.

Because if you think about it, they're all on the East Coast. If you're going to start hiring people and sending them out to map the land and try to populate the land, it's not going to be, you're going to be paying the people that have been there for a little while or second generation, and whatnot, that you don't have to pay that much,

but that are still desperate for money and desperate for a job. So those are going to be the people spreading out and moving their way west. And I just think that's funny that, like, after they got to a certain point, some guy was getting ready to name another territory. And he's like, so are we going to name this one like after the king? Or we're going to, he's like, fuck that.

He's like, no, this is the northern territory. That's South Australia and anything we get to this side of is Western Australia. We good? And he's like, yeah, I guess we're good. enough. Good enough. This is now Australia. This is not named after anything else. This is fucking Australia.

Yeah, there's also these myths that came out. Did you read much about the Bush Rangers? A little bit. So Bush Rangers were like the highwaymen of Australia. They were either criminals

and again we use the word criminals lovingly in this way that had just basically... Reformed convicts. Yeah, just basically had enough of it. They were going to escape their labor camps. They were going to escape wherever the servitude was, and they were going to go live out on the bush.

They were going to be the sort of robin hoods that were robbing from the rich and giving to the poor. In reality, it was... A stranger, merry men. Yeah. They got, they did much better. Well, and in reality, they weren't as much the Robin Hood types as they were more... You had to establish yourself first.

Like the mafioso types. Like they were. We got to take care of ourselves so we can take care of everyone else, right? Yeah. Do you guys want protection from the government? Okay, you don't? Well, then we're going to mess with you. You want protection from us?

Yeah. Okay. We'll take that money then. It, I guess, is something that I'd love to hear more about it, just what the mythology is behind him now, because I think the Bushmen have sort of lived further beyond, and I didn't go to those extends because there was just so much to cover. Dude, it's fucking cowboys.

Yeah. They were Australian cowboys. I'm not trying to like, just like, dilute it down everything, but those were the people within like the United States to compare it to that that essentially went out to like live off the land and to establish new outpost and to live outside the law. Ran the West basically.

And so you get the, yeah, the Bush Rangers that are basically the equivalent of the cowboys because again, we look at cowboys now. It's like fucking criminals, man. Like they, they, some of them may have like had better intention to do.

and kill people. What I'm saying is that like they were living outside the law. You had the Bushmen that could come in and be like, hey, yeah, we can help you guys out and everything, but we're going to a little bit on the side. We're going to get our side hustle. And it's not going to be the Marine Corps that's taking all the money anymore. We're going to take some of it. It's just a part of society. You can see that it's going to happen if there is

an area that doesn't have as much law enforcement. There's going to be people trying to push the boundaries with lawlessness and everything. And that happens to where it works. It's probably just the fucking British people. That's what it is. It comes from British. That's why we have fucking cowboys and everything like that. That's why they had Bush Rangers. It's that fucking British influence. Well, and they did

sort of the same thing as not necessarily putting up wanted posters, but there was always legends of these Bushmen that were such bad people. When in all reality, if you go back and do the research into like what they were arrested for, it wasn't the same shit, but it was sort of like a mythology

to be scared of to try to keep people away from that life. And luckily for the Australian people, The 1850s were a very large time of change because that is when the gold rush started. That's still so fucking recent. Yeah, very, very recent. I guess thinking about it, it kind of lines up in a weird way with the American gold rush

because the 49ers that play in San Francisco were named after the 49ers that came over for the gold rush in California. Was that 1849 or 1740? I think it was 1849. 184049. And it actually plays a part in sort of the Australian gold rush because there was a guy that was named Edward Hargraves. He is first attributed with starting the gold rush that happened in Australia. There was gold that was found before,

but Hargraves was the first one that found enough of it to really get the attention of England. And when that happens, England being the tax-happy people that we had just brought up, said to all the Australians, well, you found the gold on English land. So technically it's ours. A way to circumvent that would be, we'll sell you claims that you can then go out and harvest this gold from. We'll take a little, you can keep the majority of it, we're going to tax whatever you find. After we've already taxed you for paying for these claims, but we want all the money up front before you can get into work with

these claims. Do you think that there's some weird, like, I don't think, I don't really think there's like any type of like, there's never any animosity between like Americans and Australians. No? Because there's not a shared like, we didn't do shit to you, you didn't do shit to us, but we have this shared experience of being like, well, yeah, we were founded by the British and everything, but then due to either. you know, the Declaration of Independence,

or just simply being geographically so far removed that, like, we started just doing our own things. And so there's almost this, like, shared history. Like, even as similar as this, there's so many parallels. The gold rush that happens in Australia, the gold rush that happens in the United States. It's almost like there's this weird side-by-side, like, historical, like, growth or, like, pathway.

The both of these countries were kind of experiencing just a few years removed from each time. other but then they kind of synced up a little bit it's just weird because like I think that may be kind of a subconscious thing of like having a like I love like even just the concept of like their society and everything and maybe it's just because it's like oh yeah they kind of just like developed along the same lines as we did and we developed along the same lines as they did we had a shared history it's also just fun as fuck yeah it's so interesting cool the way that they I feel like there's a jealousy too because like you look at just like

Australians just seem fucking cool yeah they just seem fucking awesome. And I think part of we look at it and, you know, yeah, we declared our independence from Britain and everything like that, but they still had so much influence on us and everything that like, we looked at them like, oh, they're so fucking cool. Like, they figured out, well, we didn't fucking figure out. And they just figured out a way to be awesome about it. And like it just looks like it's just relatively like more laid back and easygoing. It's like, uh, they figured out were we fucked up and they fixed a few things. I think part of it is they almost had their entirety of their land discovered

and sort of like the bad things that happened between the Aborigines in the English. We did the same shit. We did, but it was more on us because it was manifest destiny going out under American means to do that shit. That's what I'm saying. They saw what we did. And I'm not saying that in any way, shape, performed that there haven't been atrocities. It's still wrongs and everything like that.

But it's almost like they at least, I don't even know if it was dialed back or anything like that, but it just doesn't seem as bad as what happened with Manifaz Destiny and shit like that. No, I also think that we don't see the brutal histories that they had. Instead, we read about our own brutal histories. That's true. They could have their own things that we don't even know. Yeah, that's true.

So once that happened, immigration just absolutely bluish. blew up in Australia. There were people coming. There was a lot of Chinese immigrants that were coming in, but everybody was sort of coming in to find this gold. And one of the reasons that Australia kind of became a hotbed was there was a lot of freemen in Australia that left to come to America for the gold rush ended up not doing so well, but they learned all of the techniques and shit that they needed to learn from the American gold rush to then come back to Australia and be able to do it in a more proper understanding way to do it. Some of the pushback against it was when you're painting for gold,

you need a water source to be able to run your gold through, and that would pollute water sources for other colonies and areas. Deverted and dry it all right and everything. Yeah. So there was a sense that it wasn't really great, but there were so many people, yeah, that one's next, that were coming through in trying to strike it rig. in trying to make this money,

that all of the migrants and everything started to change these cities because when you get more people coming in and doing things, you get sort of a change, not yet, of how the economy works. I know I was going to say something. Oh.

If you're looking at it, that's one of the things that I kind of read most about Australians. It's so, like, diverse and multicultural and everything. And all of it happened so recently. Yeah. quickly too. And so quickly, but at the same time, the population wasn't like, there wasn't

already so much of an established just like full-blown, like white population. It hadn't had a chance to get too much of a full hold yet. So you get all of this like these different races and these different cultures coming in. So compared to like a per, like not per capita, but basically a percentage based, you have more people coming in that are of different cultures and like societies than you. so you're getting just like it's becoming more customized and you're getting things from different cultures that's what I'm saying is like when you're able to do this maybe that's the key

when you can like look at every in all the positives from everyone else's cultures you can try to assimilate that in because that's part of a majority of your population's lives and it's just easier to be cooler about shit or more appreciative of shit absolutely that definitely could be it and we see that that sort of changes the way that these penal colonies will run

because as you get an influx of more people coming in, you have more mouths to feed, but at the same time, you also have an issue of these servants coming in and working for free. You still have to have other people doing these jobs. So if you're living in these cities and you're trying to say, well, I need to go work to feed my family, but I can't get a job because we have all these other people here that are working for free and working off their debt to society, it starts to dwindle the job market down where people can't sustain a living because there's still all this free labor coming in. And much like we were talking about earlier, you kind of get tired of getting these people

from England that they don't want. You're basically feeling like England is sending their riffraff down in depleting your culture because all you're getting from them is the bad, none of the good. So you start to take a look at it. You're like, well, I don't really want you guys to send your criminals down to us. because I want my livelihood and my life to be better. We're trying to establish something here. It's weird to say, like, you're like a generation or two removed from the people that were sent down in the same fashion, but you've already tried to, like, distance yourself

from it enough or become independent enough that you're just like, we're good now. You've sent down enough people. We'll go ahead and take it from here. And that's sort of what happened. January 9th, 1868, the convict ship, the Hongu, yeah, Hongu, I'm going to go with that. uh hungamont maybe dropped off the last load of 269 convicts to australia so we went from what was it 1788 the first penal colony lands to 1868 less than a hundred years basically 80 years worth of time these penal colonies and these criminals were being dropped off before australia had come to

the point we're like nah dude we're good we have our own shit down here we don't need any more of you guys that's the thing too what do you think that fucking conversation was like because the only reason they stopped sending them over to the United States is because the United States declared its independence. At this point, do you think they're kind of seeing some similarities of being like they're giving us some pushback that they don't want these other convicts? We're pretty far distance away from them. Are we going to run into a situation where like,

there's enough people down there probably to go ahead and create a revolution that if we push this shit and just keep saying, because guess what? If you're sending convicts down there, do you think those 200 plus convicts on each of these ships is going to turn around and then be like oh but you guys fight for england just remember if anything goes down you guys fight for england they're like yeah we we fight for england as soon as they get down there and someone was like hey we're rebelling against the english you down there like well fuck yes yeah you're australian now

we're not going to keep you i feel like it was something to where britain was like do we remember what happened the last time we kind of went against when they were requesting yeah let's just stop sending the fucking convicts down there and it's at the same time, maybe at that point, being treated like, you know, criminals for some minor shit in a society like that, it would have been an improvement to be sent down there. So how many people missed out there like, fuck, we were going to get sent to Australia? Yeah. There were also parts where England had come up with actual prisons now. So they had a place to store their criminals.

There weren't as many criminals that needed to be transported because they had created areas. areas to keep them and house them in. So there was less of a need for that. Also, at the same time, this sparked off the talk of these colonies, these new six colonies down in Australia is starting to form a union. So much like you're talking about where England sees the writing on the wall, that this could be another revolutionary deal where they're going to have to go down and fight, England maybe started to realize like, hey, if we take it easier on these guys,

maybe we can keep them in the fold of England, but at the same time, We don't have them trying to push back against us if we keep doing shit to them. And this is sort of where we come to another dark spot in Australian culture. I don't really want to dwell on it too much. I think we all kind of know how it's worked in other countries as far as indigenous people being held down. Yeah. We did the same shit. Canada did the same shit.

Basically anywhere that had an indigenous population did this shit. In 1886, they started the policies of the Aboriginal reserves that they had. It was basically what our reservations were. And along those lines, they started implementing ways to be able to strip children away from parents and communities and start to... Try to force assimilate them and everything. Start to assimilate them, start to reform them, and kind of change them into the Anglo, English, Australian, British people. that they wanted to have there. Basically not to allow

the indigenous population a chance to like stay independent and their own kind of thing. Well yeah, because it wasn't enough that within the first 20 years of... You need more loyal subjects to the crown.

Well, we have this entire supply of these aboriginal children that could grow up to idolize us and be a workforce and all that kind of stuff. They're like, perfect. Turn them away from their parents. They already did their damage too.

We didn't mention it earlier, but I believe it was within the first 20 years of European occupation in Australia. 85 to 90% of the Aboriginal population was lost due to smallpox and other diseases that were brought down there that they didn't have a chance to fight against. So you already have a dwindling population from this estimated 750,000 that you're trying to assimilate them into Christianity. Yeah. You're trying to bring them into the fold. There was some shit going on.

And in the process of that, you're giving them. fucking smallpox and all this kind of shit, yeah. And then you run into this time where they create these reserves for these human beings to where they would bring sick native kids into hospitals and

the hospitals would then tell the mothers and fathers that the child had died under their care when they were being smuggled into these schools and having their names changed and having their basically livelihoods and understanding of life ripped away from them and changed into white settlers.

And I don't say that to try to make anybody feel bad. It's just history. Like it's... I think we're an equal opportunity shit on your country if you're doing some fucked up shit type podcast. Yeah. We love what you guys are now. We love the aspects of history and everything like that. We love that for a lot of countries.

We love that for our own country. But we have definitely done our fair share of shitting on our on our homeland. So everyone's going to get a little bit. Especially have dark shit that you did. It's just part of like, guess what? It's a colonial thing. Like, that's fucking horrible. Like, would we, like, accept that now?

We wouldn't. But the reason it happened is because essentially people were fucking assholes back then. Yeah. Another part of it, too, is to become a better society is to acknowledge the shortcomings that you had before. Yeah. And these are pretty fucking big shortcomings. Those who don't list, learn about and discuss fucking the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat the failures in the future, whatever they say it. Exactly.

And so coming off of that, uh, January 1st. 1901, you're starting a new century. The six colonies joined together to form the Commonwealth of Australia. So they were still able to keep the crown as they were still able to accept the monarchy. They were still a part of them, which pays dividends in all sorts of trading groups and everything like that. They were a sovereign nation when it came to any domestic affairs, so they were able to handle their own shit on their own piece of the earth. but the UK handled all of their foreign affairs and like I say we're still considered under the monarchy so if international trade deals or anything like that

were going through they had somebody who had already been on the market enough to be able to help them do better this sounds to me like Australia came to the table and it's like listen it's time this this thing this thing is coming to an end and Graven was like well okay listen let's not use the r word yes yes let's not use let's not any of that silly independence talk

or anything like that revolution what do you guys need from us well gooday we need to fucking handle all our own shit they're like cool yeah do that and they're like and i mean other than that we probably really don't need you guys they're like well what about like international trade and foreign affairs like we're really good at that how about this you just let us handle That's like being like, you let us just handle your social media. We'll just handle your Instagram account and everything. But we'll make you look really good. You guys kick us a little something back for allowing us to go ahead and keep saying that you're under the monarchy.

It looks good for us. We'll make sure you guys get good deals set up. It works for everybody. Dillon they're like, okay, let's just fucking, yeah, yeah, that works. Close enough. We don't want that fucking little old lady or the new king down here. Yeah, I've always wondered about this. What in the world, why is the queen in such danger that everybody always has to say God save the queen?

Like, why is she? I think when you get into being queen, you just get to invent stuff. Like Charles will probably have some type of like chant that they have to say some. Yeah. I'm the one that didn't touch kids. Is that what Charles is going to say? I'm not Andrew. Yeah.

But Australia really kind of comes into their own, enough to where in 1914, when good old World War I starts, they had conscription down there. They conscripted 415,000 troops to send into World War I. I think it was probably a joint deal of being like they had the British influence. They were still under the monarchy. And they understood as well is that by being under the monarchy, they also had the protection of the monarchy. It's really good when you want to rule yourself and make up your own shit

when you're distanced from the boss and everything or like who's your support system or whatnot. but when you are close to no one else that can support you, you need to take that support where you can get. And so, of course, like when the war kicks off, they're going to want to contribute, especially if they find themselves in a situation where they're under threat, they need allies that are going to come help them.

Yeah, they, you kind of scratch the back to make sure that you're protected still. They took a pretty decent brunt. 60,000 troops were killed and another 150,000 were wounded. Like out of the fort, You are sending 415,000 troops. Like, in comparison to a European nation that was, like, fully established and not a settled colony, the percentage of troops based on their populace was fucking enormous.

So it's not to downplay and say, well, they only committed 400. That's out of a very limited number of people. So, like, as far as percentage of, like, service members and everything like that, they were on the much higher side of it. You're sending a lot of your workforce over into war. A lot of your young sons and like even some fathers and stuff like that that are going to fight. And you don't have those to fucking spare man. Yeah. Yeah, there's not a lot.

You're trying to build a population. You're not trying to decline. A larger amount of those casualties that happened really kind of got some things mixed up back at home politically because you had groups that were saying, well, you conscripted these people into the war. Like you drafted them into the war. They had no choice but to go. and all the costs that we lost over there then directly affects us. England is still going to be England.

They have other colonies everywhere else. They didn't send a lot of their people compared to what their population was. We made a very large human investment that's now coming back to bite us in the ass. So you see almost like far left political groups pushing back against the idea of war and saying we can't do this anymore.

If this ever happens to happen again, again, this was the great war. We understand. We'd never seen shit like this before, but if this ever happens again, we need to try to isolate ourselves to be able to protect our spot at home. And it really fucked up their economy after World War I because these new industries that were born out of the war that were really, really good were all mostly commodities. And when you send commodities onto the market, stuff that people need on a daily basis, but they're more of like, yeah, I could buy a new wool shirt to replace mine, but I still have one. So the wool industry sent all of their production out into an inflated economy to where

the price was really, really not great that they were getting back in return. In a country that's full of exports, but needs a lot of imports because they are their own island, is suddenly finding themselves at a deficit financially because they're sending out shit that's not making as much money in order to buy shit from other places. that cost more money. Again, 1914, talking about World War I, again, this place hasn't been sold for a long time. And while they're developing self-sufficiency, and they have a lot of that, mass production of luxuries and things like that, that's always the last shit to come of stuff that you're not just trying to make for necessity. And so you're still bringing in, you're relying

on a lot of outside sources to bring in all those things of those comforts that people have gotten used to and that actually help, you know, provide like positivity for a society. And So when, you know, you're sending a lot of stuff out that people now outside the world, like the wool industry, where it's like, well, times are tough, a war just happened. I'm not buying wool right now because I still have something that I can use until it completely falls apart. I will buy it, but it's going to be to much lesser cost. Yes. And that really kind of hurt them, let alone the rise of the emu that we already covered. they were losing men on the front of the war while at home there was this dark ominous group of feathered fighters

the threat from within yeah yeah the threat from within that we actually covered in our second episode ever it's an episode that gets talked about between us is something that we're shocked that we decided to fire number two out of the gate on yes a little bit of fun though if you want to go back and listen to that one listen to it with loving ears yeah And a lot of understanding that it was our second go. Exactly. But they had to borrow so much from England to try to fight off this depression that's happening within their country, that their debts are starting to mount up. Luckily, as they're taking in this money, these other forms of industry that had been born

in Australia during the war as far as manufacturer goods and other things to where you're seeing a shift from not as much wool production, people come. coming into cities and starting to work at factories. I'm sure they were making munitions and shit like that to start supporting war. Yeah, when you start like kind of getting good at industrialization, I think people kind of forget the fact that it's, you can pivot in industrialization. Like look at it no further than World War II. You had the Ford Motor Company start pumping out like B-17 or B-25 bombers.

So you just have to swap out. You have the assembly lines. You have the workers that are used to doing mechanical tasks, all that kind of stuff. you're simply just swapping out some machinery and you're just making a different product. So all the industrialization that had happened for Australia, even for like wartime materials and everything like that, they started building that stuff up

because, of course, they're going to look after themselves now. It's always great to have. But at the same time, some of that could be pivoted to other types of fields of industry. And that only benefits you once you have that industrialization if you have another reason to do it. Enter World War II, which they were in,

much better spot because they had had that depression of trying to switch their economy from more agricultural means to industrialized means. Which is crazy because it wasn't that long. Yeah. They're doing this shit so fast. Yeah. We're a matter of 20-ish, 25-ish years between these massive military events. And the Australian soldiers went out just like they did in World War I.

And they fought in the Pacific, the European, the Mediterranean, the Mediterranean, the military. Middle East theaters. They were spread everywhere. They were, I don't know what portion size was. I didn't look for the soldiers that had participated in World War II as compared to the rest of the Allies. But there were a pretty big force and they paid a price for it. The Japanese, they made the Australians feel it at home. There was something called the Japanese bombing of Darwin that happened February 19th in 1942. It resulted in 236 dead in three to four hundred wounded. Well, like thinking about it just from the aspect of World War II.

So yeah, you're fighting on the side of the Allies. But as far as being on that side of the Pacific, the United States is completely on the other side of the Pacific. We got Hawaii sitting in the middle. And then to the south of Japan and all the areas that it's trying to take over is you fucking have Australia. Yeah, it's a bad spot to be when a world war kicks off. So the, you know, Japanese, the sphere of influence, they're trying to build, it's branching

you know, it's trying to push itself into China, but the place where it's going the most is it goes south. And it takes over all those islands. They end up taking Papua New Guinea, I think, and that's under... Philippines. Yep, that's all going to be under Japanese control. And now you have Australia,

who now is actually an ally-friendly area where they can come in and everything like that. But you have all of the British, you know, the British aren't just fighting the Nazis in Europe. They're also fighting the Mediterranean. They're saying, sending a ton of like resources as well to like the Indian Ocean and to Australia to help fight the Japanese as well.

So they're fighting on multiple fronts. So, you know, they're definitely involved in that. And in fact, they're probably aside from China and then Russia a little bit later. They're the closest ones. They're closer than Britain and the United States to taking essentially and closer to like occupied Japanese area. Yeah. It's a very scary place to be when shit pops off, knowing your allegiances lie with the people that are being fought.

There was times during World War II where they thought there was going to be a Japanese invasion of Australia. Because that would have pushed essentially any type of allied influence out of that area. And there were times when they were worried about after Pearl Harbor or some of the Pacific campaigns. are like if we lose like any more like sea presence and everything we're not going to have a way to like support or resupply they were constantly there was a stream i can't remember what the name of the route was but just a constant stream of ships going from the united states to to australia the entire time yep and their focus was essentially on just keeping the japanese above that shipping lane to protect that to keep the flow of splice because if shit that's a huge staging area it was so strategically

important. I don't see Japan's had they made landfall and not just kept it in the air. I feel like the Australians would have fed them their lunch. I feel like the Aussies would have seen the Japanese come in and really fucked them up. I feel

like it would have been a situation where like it wouldn't have been like traditional warfare at a certain extent like they would charge, storm the beaches, you know, waiting to meet a hail of gunfire and it would just be insanely quiet. it. And you just hear all send

chirps and bird noises. And then all of a sudden they just start, the fucking Japanese soldiers just start dropping. You have all these fucking bushmasters and people that have lived out. The Rangers, yeah, the Bush Rangers that are just sniping them and fucking like popping out of the sand to kill these guys. It would not have been something that the Japanese

it would have been akin to fucking the Nazis invading Soviet Union. Not to mention if Australia heard that they were coming to make landfall somewhere and they just started pushing all the alligators to where the landing was going to be. Do you see the Japanese people start to look down on the water?

Like, what the fuck are those that are just floating there? Not to be stereotypical, but you just see the Japanese like storm the beach and they're sitting there and you just hear a fum, boom, boom, boom. And you hear a ping. He looks over his guy and he's just got a boomerang sticking through his helmet and just drops down dead. They're like, they're fucking killing us with these sticks. Why do they, if they miss, they just fly back to where they came from? How the fuck? They have homing devices on them?

What are these things? But yeah, definitely served with distinction in class during WW2. Yeah, and they felt it at home. That's another difference, I think, between us and them is the Japanese attacked 111 times

between the mainland airspace, offshore islands, and the coastal shipping lanes. So we felt the brunt, very bad, not denigrating what happened in Pearl Harbor. It was one event that happened. Yeah.

These fuckers were attacking a hundred and 11 times in Australia or around Australia to where Australia had to have felt the heat from what was going on based upon what their allies were doing in other parts of the world. This also led World War II

because we were sending so many supplies and a lot of our like staging, like troops in the Pacific being wounded or anything like that or to like pull units back from the front, they would be sent to Australia. So you had this huge influx of like USGIs in Australia and we know what happens when you get an

influx of United States. service men in an area is you get an intermingling with the locals. And they said that this led to kind of almost, this had to have been Great Brin's worst nightmare.

It's just like, fuck, now they're talking together. It's like two X's that get along better. Now they're just starting shit about you. And so they're like, yeah, we hang out a lot. But you get this. And I think because maybe

it was a shared history of something like that, that the two cultures intermingled pretty well. And you get this from this point on, you get more of this skew toward like kind of less British, more American. I'm not saying that's, it's their own thing. It's the Australian thing. But it's the combination of both what they kept from the British and what they like took,

I think from some cultural stuff. Because they started like feeding in like bringing a lot of like American movies and TV shows and all entertainment and that kind of stuff. So where there was influence. Like they took the best of both. They're like, we don't like how fucking high strong and crazy you guys are in the United States about all your fucking shit. but we don't like how stuff y'all the British are going to be

so we're just going to fucking put this together and we're just going to chill about this stuff and be an awesome culture of people. Well, and we've been trying to come out of this depression from what happened during World War I. We're doing better for World War II

so we can start importing movies. We can start importing culture now as opposed to trying to keep ourselves above board after World War I. That we have we're able to bring in more of the leisure influence that America has, which is totally cool between the sharing of both of them. Their losses in World War II, again, not to be...

I don't really understand this quite as much as I think it's just sort of a basic fact of like World War I and World War II were fought in a very different way. World War I, you see 60,000 troops killed, 150,000 wounded. World War II, still pretty big losses. thousand Australians were killed 23,477 were wounded out of the 400,000 that went. But you see... They said almost a million Australians served during World War II from 39 to 45. Really?

Yep. Okay, so the 400,000 was definitely off. I guess maybe that was overseas, but... And there could have been other areas that they were serving. The other thing, too, is you would have to keep a military force there as well to protect against evasion. That would be definitely a priority. So there were probably guys that served.

Stay at home. But yeah, that's... To go from losing, say, 100 or 210,000 casualties of war, not deaths, but casualties from World War I to 50,000-ish during World War II. And a span that wasn't that long before that, but just the fact that they were able to maybe modernize better than they were during World War I, that the protection was a better level for World War II. I think because you also like, World War I was also more like just centralized in Europe. It wasn't as wide-reaching and everything. But there were still more deaths of Australians during that. Correct.

What I'm saying is I think maybe in World War II, the places where the Aussies would serve and everything, most of the casualties in World War II come from the Eastern Front between the Russians and the Germans and everything. So it's going to be less, I think, for the Allies, especially if they're serving in areas. Like you said, they served everywhere and everything. But because they weren't serving things. thankfully on the eastern front. I think that's where like you get away with not having as many casualties, whereas they were probably on the fucking trench lines in World War I just, yeah.

Okay. Yeah, no, that makes total sense. We also see participation in the Korean War, which we did an episode on. I think we mentioned their casualty count during that. Vietnam War, which is yet to be done, but will be done miraculously in a great way. total combined between those two wars, 77,000 troops were coming from Australia, total of 860 died,

so you're seeing less stats. You're still seeing a pretty large troop involvement, though. That's smart too. I just see that being the intelligence on maybe where they assign those soldiers and being like, okay, we don't want to be in Korea, guys, but I understand we're all on the same team here, so we have to fucking send some people over.

It's the United Nations at that point. We're going to send you 77,000 guys, but here's the condition. We want them not fucking doing like the bad shit, the fucking McArthur is telling his fucking troops to do. We want them serving in roles that they can come home and be like, okay, yeah, we didn't fuck up too bad. Yeah, our casualty count was much better than it was before. None of our troops at any point will be under the command of Douglas McArthur. Let's just put it that way. Yep, that guy had his moment.

We don't trust him as much as we do now. and much like this sort of co-mingling that you were talking about between America and Australia in 1965 you have the freedom and civil rights movements that started to kick off much like around the United States civil rights movement there had been things that had led

sort of into this 1967 referendum but before that in what was it? 1962 the decision to grant Aborigines the right to vote and federal elections happened. So of 1962, that's awesome. That's still a pretty long ways away from when you got there

to be able to allow them a voice in the country that they were in before you got there. Yeah. But you see in 1967, it actually started to count the aborigine people, the aboriginals on the census, which is a huge mark because the census that's sent around to all. all these different spots in the country is where the government will allocate resources for

human beings to be able to live and thrive in those areas. So as you're counting these, Jesus Christ, as you're counting the Aborigines on the census, you start to see that they're able to give more. Who's being left out this in fucking tires? Yeah. You see the government starting to be able to support these people that they had kind of

kept in the background for so long. 1884 they were actually required Google this for me or Australians required to vote 1984 they were required to register just like everybody else in the country to be able to vote in federal elections and this wasn't to say before that

they weren't allowed to vote in like local elections and shit like that but federal elections are something very different because federal elections for a place like Australia will start to bleed down into these local elections but I'm pretty sure that all Australians are required to vote. It's called compulsory voting. And it is...

I'm just looking for some additional information. The fact that it says compulsory voting, it's also called the universal civic duty for mandating voting. Yeah. It requires the registered voters participation in an election. So yeah, they were actually brought into the point to where it was not only an option to vote, but they as members and as people, living in Australia were required

to do the same thing that everybody in Australia was. So your vote and your voice is going to start to be heard, even though your populations are less, you start to being able to put people into parliament. It's smart. They're just like, they're looking at us and being like, why the fuck are you? Like

half of you're not doing shit. They're like, no, we're not putting up with you lazy motherfuckers. Everyone's going to fucking, like, everyone is going to make their voice heard. So that way no one can be like, why is shit so fucked up? It's like, everyone fucking did this. Everyone voted for this.

But it's also like, not necessarily an olive branch to cover up everything before, but you're like, hey, you're one of us. So you need to do everything. Like, we're going to grant you that we fuck some stuff up for you in the past.

We want to bring you up to where we feel we are now. But at the same time, we also want you to bear the same responsibilities that we feel that we need now. It's a sense of responsibility, but it's also like, No, no, no. Like, this takes work from you too. Yeah.

Like, this whole thing, like, and I'm not saying that from, like, from the aboriginal standpoint. I'm saying, like, putting that into where, like, any citizen has compulsory voting. That's basically me, like, you know, we require something from you, too. I know that sounds kind of dumb, but, like, we're requiring you to tell us how better to serve you. So please fucking do that. They're good requirements to have. Yes.

You're being responsible for not only us trying to make things right, but at the same time, you have a voice in what affects everybody else, too. We're going to fast forward all the way to 1999. I found this pretty shocking. I'm not going to put this as a knock against Australia, but just being an American. You guys got to shake the monarchy. You guys got to do this.

1999, 55% of voters requested a proposal to abolish the monarchy of Australia and become a republic. So I get that they did some good shit for you. They did some good shit for us in the beginning. You guys got prisoners. We got prisoners. Maybe it's time to shake them. Here's the deal.

Where are they at? on some things as far as time goes. So like, at what point between like us doing the Declaration of Independence did they first come to Britain and was like, hey, we're joined. It was 1901. Yeah, so that was when they became the common one. Exactly. Give them a couple more years and they're just going to be like, oh, yeah, okay.

You're right. Okay. You're right. I don't know. You have to lit one or two more generations that still think that that fucking matters die before the next ones are able to vote and being like, yeah, my great grandpa thought that. I don't know if we'll be alive.

We might be. It might be in the next 10, 10, 20 years. They seem to be shortening the distance it takes us to figure shit out. They tend to do it in a shorter amount of time. I think I did see an article that the Aussies are starting to take the members of the crown off of money down there. Good for you. You guys got enough cool motherfuckers down there to put on some money. I would love to see that.

I'd love to see some real strong Australian native Aboriginal people. get on your money because it is pretty cool. I know that not all our guys are really awesome in every fast of their life, but they were very important to what happened in our country. You guys already figure that shit out. So you know not to put the slave owners and stuff like that on your, you're already taken off the queen and the royalty.

So just make sure you don't replace them with people that have done fucked up shit in your own country. Because after you do that, people have a real issue with fucking changing. So if you're going to change it, do it one time. Do it right. everyone loves Steve Irwin.

Yeah. You put Steve Irwin on... Instead of a Benny, a Stevie. Oh, dude, a Stevie. You put Stevie on 100. And this is just... I know that this isn't probably a national hero or anything like that.

I grew up and was forced to watch Crocodile Dundee. Paul Hogan. Yeah. If you're going to have someone be introduced as like your spokesman in that movie for Australia, I don't know if you can do better and Paul Hogan being Crocodile Dendy.

The man can do everything. He seduces our women. He just has to be Australian. And like our American women are just like, oh my God. Yeah, he saved her from being dragged in by a crocodile, but I figure all of you guys can do that. I figure he was just the Australian every man. Like that's part for the course for you guys.

I know that he plays into the stereotypes, but I feel like they're fun stereotypes. We somehow figured out to play into our stereotypes back then because we have been Franklin on our $100 bill. he's fat as fuck. America still fat as fuck. We figured that out a long time ago to do that. So Paul Hogan, play into those things because he's awesome.

Also, much like you grew up with Paul Hogan, I grew up watching Steve Irwin constantly. I love that guy. I can make a promise to you guys, whether it's a one-on-one or whether Chris and I want to do it together. We're doing a Steve Irwin episode because that dude is fucking awesome. He's a great human being, unfortunate how he ended. Doing what he loved. Yeah, doing what he loved. That's a great way to do it.

there are just so many different great people in Australia that you guys can put on your money. Yeah, you have plenty options. Pick, pick the right one. Just to kind of mop up a little bit of the Aboriginal sort of change in the reckoning that came with the past. 1999,

the Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, refused to issue an apology to the Aborigines saying that he did not believe genocide was committed against the indigenous people of Australia. we know that that's bullshit. The reason that he had said that was because he was concerned that

a... He would open him up to legal prosecution or some shit like that. So an understanding of what happened he feared would open them up to a way for the Aboriginal people to come after them litigiously to try to get back a generation. I don't know how you get back

a generation of people that lost their families to be brought into kind of this fear of whiteness that they tried to. But at the same time, all the land that was lost and everything. I know that there's reconciliation projects going on now to try to separate special lands that are going to be demarcated and things like that. It's a good move forward. Luckily, in 2008, the next prime minister after John Howard, Kevin Rudd, issued a formal

apology on behalf of the federal government to the Aboriginal people. Batman does not speak for us. Yeah. He is unfortunately an idiot with a microphone and we have thus rectified the situation. But it's the acknowledgement that I feel like we sort of crave as Americans. Like I would love for the Americans to just acknowledge and really understand all the bad shit that we had done to the Native Americans here and just say, hey, we don't necessarily have to feel bad for what our ancestors did, but we also just need to understand that our ancestors did bad things. And that's okay. It wasn't okay back then.

It's okay to say that we understand what happened back then wasn't okay. Yeah. And in order to do that is this community, like we've talked about this entire time. We might be ahead of them in certain aspects in life, but they're ahead of us and just being cool fucking people. Oh yeah. Like from a cultural standpoint and everything, it's they don't have the hangups or the issues with. And I, as shitty as it sounds, I think that has something to do with them being able to

have that many people in a country, but also not feel maybe like they're overcrowded or they have too many people. There's not so much of a cultural separation. Maybe they're like a divisiveness that as there is here where it's like fucking 50-50 split down the middle. Maybe they're like, yeah, remember we all came over here like 250 years ago and like built this country and like we're trying to live better with the peoples that were here before it and everything like that. You have hopefully new generations that have a different outlook on that. but it's like we're still in that phase where we're trying to like stay cordial because we see again what you guys are doing and what you guys have done like guess what like they didn't have a civil war

in their time frame the one thing one of the things they missed out on was like a full blown civil war they were able to maybe look and be like so we just avoid that and then we don't fight each other okay cool let's we'll avoid that yeah it's a different sort of way to do it and that's why i think this episode kind of drew me in and I think it drew you in was we know our own history but to go out and look at another country's history another continent's history it's like when they make those video games about an alternate timeline yeah and you get to be like so if america didn't do certain things what might we look like and they're just like australia's like here so if we didn't do this if we changed this about us what might we look like and they're like here us see how happy we

all fucking all. Yeah. We're pretty diverse too and guess what? It's not always great. There's still some bad shit that happens that comes with diversity because there's ignorant people out there, but we're also getting by pretty good. We're trying to cut down a lot of the bullshit you guys did. Yep. So, and you know, in respect

to that, congrats to you, Australia, for what you've done and for learning and for just being fucking awesome and being the first country that we decided to cover. Sorry that we put Michael Phelps up against Ian Thorpe in the Olympics swimming. that wasn't really cool of us to send a secret weapon down there to just wreck you guys and swimming.

Biologically engineered fishman is what he is. But all right, man. You got anything? Oh, did we want to discuss our favorite Australians? Yeah, I think we have some similar kind of guys that we enjoy listening to and just knowing about my one-one's probably got to be Steve Irwin. I feel like, are you Paul Hogan-1-1? No, I'll go Steve Irwin. I feel like Steve Irwin has contributed much.

more to the betterment of society. Yeah. Paul Hogan. Paul Hogan, if you were to compare like a five year to six year span in like the 80s, early 90s, who was more influential, Paul's going to beat Steve. But overall throughout his entire lifetime has done much more for the betterment. Maybe not like the large knife industry, but Steve Irwin has done much more for the betterment of society.

Yeah. A Paul Hogan smile and melt your heart too. He's a handsome man. We got, what are we throwing? We got Jim Jeffries in there. Jim Jeffries, fantastic. I feel like he almost is the embodiment of how I feel about Australians is they're a little bit crude by American standards

but they're also very enjoyable and very funny. They're a guy that you would love to go out and drink with and have fun with because you know it's going to be a wild time. You've heard a little bit of him. I've listened to quite a bit of him. Jason Ellis, fantastic skateboarder. Kind of a crazy dude. Hawking Wolf.

Yes, I've listened to more Jason. Ellis, yes. He used to have a radio show on Sirius XM called Ellis, or the Jason Ellis show. He was fantastic. Not great at managing money, but I also... A man that has lived a lot of life. Yeah, he very much has been. Other than that, it's funny that when I think of all my favorite Australians, there's not a lot of political nature in there just because they don't really...

The bad ones that are able to just, like, keep in it. They're never bad enough to fucking make, like, worldwide news and all that shit. They're a little bit crazy. a little bit eccentric, but at the same time... We get those people out of office before they're able to ratchet up the fucking crazy. I like that idea. Yeah. All right, guys. Well, I think that's it from us.

Thanks for joining us on this episode, and we'll catch on the next one. Peace. All right, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for joining us for another episode. If you like what you heard, hit that subscribe and like button. Follow us. If you didn't like what you heard, still hit that anyway, because we'll probably cover something in the future that you do like. Please follow us on our social media.

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