Historically High - The JFK Assassination

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

21,719. That's a big number. What if we told you that was how many days it has been since John F. Kennedy was assainated? It's been 21,411 days since we found out Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone actor in the assaination of JFK. Did the Warren commission get it right, or have the last 59 years been full of half truths and dead end investigations. Listen in to hear what they said and what we think actually happened. Off to Dealey Plaza!Support the show Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Oh. Do you have anything to lead it into this one, or do you just want to get straight into it? We can raw dog it. I just want to talk about just that we can record it or not. But how fucking crazy is it that we have a Supreme Court and there's just like no ethics? Like there's just no rules. Because Clarence Thomas. So I know where your mind's going.

Have you not seen all this Clarence Thomas stuff? And the head guy, Robert? I quit looking at Twitter, like for the last. I can't do Twitter anymore because I fucking just doomscroll the fuck out of it and it depresses me. Okay, so what's happened with him? So Clarence Thomas, apparently there's a very

his name is something crow, I believe. Not Russell, not Cameron. No, no, he's this old Southern fella that is just rich beyond his wildest dreams and he owns a law company or a law firm and I get, Harlan Crow is his name.

Harlan Crowe sounds like every bad southern person. It sounds like the bad guy in like a Dukes of Hazardesque or smoking the bandit. Someone to be like, well, where, where, what do we have here? And he really is. Like this dude, like I said, the head of a law firm. And I guess him and Clarence Thomas like became friends at a young age or some shit like that. Is he one of those goddamn old-ass southern gentleman lawyers? This guy has a collection of Nazi memorabilia.

Obviously, he only keeps it because it's his. history. Because of his, for historical significance and documentation. I look at this stuff to remind me of what I'll never want to become. Except for hating minorities.

And that's what the weirdest part about it is, is him and Clarence Thomas, I guess, are boys. Which I don't want to say that white people and black people can't be friends, but a guy named Harlan Crow probably isn't friends with Clarence Thomas. I will reserve my judgments for Clarence. I don't think

Clarence Thomas. I'm not going to say anything. But I don't know how they became friends or anything like that, but they've known each other for a really long time. And Clarence Thomas, he sold that property that his mother's house and his mother's house that she's still living in or was still living in at the time to Harlan for like, I want to say it was well over a million dollars. And it wasn't a very large plot of land.

Okay. And so it was like a loaded transaction. Yeah. Except for Clarence Thomas's mom still lives in the house and they went through and upgraded and renovated everything and just made it nice. She doesn't pay anything to Harlan. And his law firm... That's not what the money was for. No.

But his law firm has argued multiple cases in front of the Supreme Court. Of course. Which they didn't, they don't have to disclose that shit to the ethics community. John Roberts had a very similar deal where he'd sold some land to somebody else who, again, was a very rich attorney. that had argued cases and did argue cases in front of the Supreme Court and the guys of Chief Justice. Like, we don't have the ethics to be like, yeah, you have to disclose everything and everything that you did with everybody.

Like, how was that possible? How was the highest court in the land not... Yeah, I don't... Again, dude, it's an experimental system. Like, we think that it's all just fucking figured out because it's... It's 250 years old. It doesn't...

We don't have it fucking figured out. And even at that point, how long is the, you know, this iteration of the Supreme Court even been you know in existence it's just still one of those things though like they they have tougher ethics laws

I think for politicians than they do for the Supreme Court justices which is shocking it's supposed to be their job they're supposed to make up the laws and enforce the law and no it's not so yeah enforce the law and everything

but they're supposed to be able to interpret what the founding fathers meant by all these previously existing laws in their own way like I can interpret like you can put five people in a room and give them the same bit of information, and you get five different interpretations of the information. Yeah, it's just, I don't know.

It's, I get that it was like an experimental system that we were just trying out and make it happen. But we had to have realized fairly quickly that it was kind of an antiquated system. Like, we, we either have to abandon. Yeah, but what's the one thing when it comes down to trying to change anything that, like, is the most resistant to change? anything that has been established or anything that we set forth within the holy papers of the founding of the government and all that kind of stuff, that's the stuff that's not able to be changed.

So because it established essentially the judiciary branch and the Supreme Court and all that kind of stuff, you know, there's not even an option for trying to find something better. We got to fucking figure out. I understand that. I'm not saying we shouldn't. Either that or just make it told loopholes are taken care of. Like, we should have a situation where it's, I mean, I get, I know that the, um, Congress has kind of changed some rules in order to get some people in some places that they probably shouldn't be.

But why are Supreme Court's not popular vote? Like, why is the Supreme Court nominee not popular vote? Why, why can't the people have a say in the people that are doing that? I think it's just because of how the justices are selected. I mean, not only do you. have to, and where would they come from? How would enough people be aware of those people? Because again, this is, it's not like Congress where you're sending elected officials from at least somewhat, at least in your state as a representative for you. There are how many Supreme Court justice is

right now? Like nine? Nine. So that's nine out of the entire country. So there could be a Supreme Court justice in Florida, but outside of Florida, who the fuck knows what this person stands for has any information on them. So, and that's what's so fucked up about the whole process of being able to assign is just who happens to retire and who happens to be in power can completely restructured.

I mean, some of it is kind of luck and timing to where, what if there's like five times in a row that one party is in power and gets to elect the Supreme Court justice is in there? That's happened pretty recently and everything. Very recently. But that's not an accurate representation, and especially just not having them even be elected,

it's hard to look at it and say, well, you're making laws and rules for us, but we didn't elect you. Like, I might have nothing in common with you and would not vote for you or might not vote for seven out of the nine people that are in those positions. Yet they're supposed to be in those positions because they've, you know, um, fuck what am I trying to say? They've demonstrated over the course of whatever illustrious law career they've had that their judgment has been sound or that they fit a narrative of the current administration that's in office and they like with that judge. We saw that, we saw that within the last, what, like, six years with like the fucking Connie Barrett and then what was the dude that I like to drink beer.

Oh, the devil's three way. Cavanaugh, yeah. We saw that just recently where those people were not essentially along what the mainstream thought process or, you know, social. The direction of the country. Exactly. So, yeah, it's a very antiquated and, yeah, it's an outdated system. I just, it's one of those things where it's in the holy text, so you can't touch it. The holy text that we've amended many, many times. Yes. Do you have a favorite Supreme Court justice? I like RGB, just the fact that she was in there so fucking long.

I think I found this guy. Do you know who Byron Whizzer White was? I feel like I came across to the name when we were looking up something for Roe v. Wade or something like that, I don't know. He, he, I don't know, I guess he was in it for a long time

but Byron White was an American lawyer, a jurist, and a professional football player who served in his associate justice from the Supreme Court of the United States from 1962 to 1993. So, wait, so on, on the,

Supreme Court or an associate of the Supreme Lake? That's, you're a judge. So was he like one of the main? He was the Supreme Court Justice. Okay. And very cool to think that a football player that became a judge, like, we actually

saw a football player go into politics, I guess, in a way and not be just a complete moron. Who are you talking about? Every football player that's tried to run for office at Phil's like. Oh, you're saying the wizard. We saw someone, the wizard. was a football player that made it.

I was like, the wizard made his way, and I guess it's not really politics because it's still the judicial system, but he actually did something. That's the whole point is that should not be politics. And he just, he was a real big deal.

He didn't go for a terribly long time, I believe he was a judge for a little while between his football career and his Supreme Court career. But in 1962, Dude, JFK got to a point, well, I guess it was 60 to 63 when he was in, but he got to a point, I believe it was two Supreme Court judges,

and one of them just happened to be an old ex-football player. Hmm. That kind of blows your mind, huh? Yeah, a lot of things of JFK blow my mind. Unfortunately, one... The blowing of someone's mind actually blows my mind having to watch that. Dude, I texted you last night watching that documentary. Within nine minutes of the documentary, credits included,

they went over that. And it wasn't just like, we're going to keep showing your replays and then we'd do the rewind to be like, see here and the rewind. Like four different instances in nine minutes of showing that section of the Zabruder film. Was it an HD or was it still the original?

It was colorized and everything. Was the original black and white? Yes. Okay, it was the colorized one and it might have been just slightly enhanced, but I mean, it doesn't need to be any more enhanced than the original to get its point across. there's a super polished version

that's out on the internet that is just shocking where you can probably see the matter and stuff like the app yeah I for as weird as it is I feel like the whole situation with the JFK assassination

like it's just got to be fantasy in my mind because all of the working things that happened like I get that it was a reality and everything like that but when like you watch as a murder film I just can't rationalize that

as something that actually happened yeah well if you can't guess it already we're talking the JFK assassination today, both what actually happened. And I mean, at this point, what was the last poll in like 2013, 61% of people said they thought that there was something wrong with it. Yeah.

Something wrong with the official narrative. So it's not even a conspiracy at that. Well, no, hold on. Okay, I was listening to this, and here's the thing I figured out with conspiracy theories. It's not the word conspiracy, it's the theory. because a conspiracy is just the intention of a group to... It's an actual crime that you can be charged for. Yeah, to have a crime for the various means.

And it's a secret. There's conspiracies all the time. People planning all these things and everything like that. It's the theory part that is the craziness of it. So when people just say, oh, it's a conspiracy, be like, well, that doesn't mean it's crazy. It's when you're like, well, I have a conspiracy theory. That's just your idea based on that conspiracy.

But whenever you attack something like this, you don't say I have a conspiracy, you say I have a theory. Yeah. Because it just makes it sound less nuts. Well, because is there literally any other, maybe there's another worldwide or another countries have larger ones, but is there any event, aside from maybe the, or aside from maybe something like the pyramids, that has more of a conspiracy around it than this, at least in modern history? A lot of assassinations. MLK. I think this one has more to it than even Martin Luther King. Well, I think the same people did it.

I'm not saying, but I'm saying that there's more, you can believe the same people did it, and we're going to get into all of that. What I'm saying, though, is how many different possibilities with this there are versus with Martin Luther King Jr., you kind of knew, right? It funneled it very, very quickly down to who it was going to be. Yeah.

Yeah, I can't think of, really anything else. I don't know. There's a lot of fucking flat earth theory people out there. Or lizard Illuminati. That's not as big as this. Oh, buddy.

So I don't think this is necessarily, like, for, this is like mainstream conspiracy theory. Like, this is something that everybody has just looked at and been like,

we don't agree with it. There had to have been something different. But I think the lizard Illamani and the goofy shit like that, like lizard people, I feel like that buries themselves.

under the surface. Like, the people that believe that this was true, that believe the Warren Commission, yeah. That number of people that believe that is probably closer to the number of lizard people than you think, like as far as percentage believed. Well, no, because it was 39% of people. Or it was like 30, sorry, it was 30 because there was 9% like an accountant for it.

I read one that was like 11%. I still don't think there's 11% of people that think there's lizard people. All right. The only reason also that this one maybe isn't as, like this is the granddaddy, the OG, the godfather of conspiracies. Maybe. I find more documentaries about something. Maybe in nowadays there's like aliens and shit, but the only reason that this thing still isn't as prominent is because it was back in the 60s. And it really doesn't have a lot of relevance today or anything like that.

Also, I was just doing so much research on it. this, do you feel like if, like you were saying, you watch the video and it just looks like a movie because we've seen so many things, we've seen more made up Hollywood instances of explosions, people blowing up, people dying, all that kind of stuff, then far, far, far more than we have real life footage of that. And so when like you watch like the Supruder film and you see his fucking head explode. Part of your brain is just like, that's just special effects. But then like you sit there and you think about it and everything, you're like, no, like, I'm watching unedited this actually occur.

And I'm watching Jackie try to go off the back of the car to grab a piece. Is it brain or skull? Both. I think it was just kind of everything. Yeah, just in case you're not aware, there's going to be some graphic descriptions of stuff during this. And that's just basically the content of what we're talking about. I'm also going to pre-apologize. I'm sorry for laughing at this because this is just one of those things that's so absurd that it's just kind of got to be funny.

And the second thing is I'm not going to refer to anything really by scientific terms because they just can't. Yeah. But when I say melon, it means skull. Yeah. But yeah, let's, I mean, so I think first what we should probably do is discuss what is recognized by the, warrant commission is the official story, what actually, what occurred according to them, and then who was the responsible parties. And then after we've discussed that, I think that then opens us up to discuss where there

should be discrepancies or where there are discrepancies and, you know, where different theories are going to come into play. Do we want to start there or do we just want to start with the day? No, I meant the day. Yeah. Oh, not just what the findings were. Yeah, let's like kind of the lead up and everything. So let's just discuss what happened that day

and then how it corresponds to what the Warren Commission determined. The Warren Commission, just so we can get it out of the way, was a special commission, a special committee commissioned by Linda B. Johnson, who was sworn in after JFK was pronounced dead, to basically... By a woman.

Huh? I'm pretty sure he was sworn in by a woman judge. Oh, yeah. It was shocking. But for Linda B. Johnson and John Kennedy. It was someone on Air Force One. They just had to find. Uh-huh.

And so it was commissioned by Lyndon B. Johnson essentially to investigate the assassination of JFK. It took two years to compile. So it was between 76 and 78 that they did it, right? The Warren Commission was no, because it was before... No, sorry, 60, 66 to 68. Yeah. Because it was right. Sorry, yeah, it was within a couple years of the actual event.

There's a massive amount of... It's 800 and something pages. 888, exactly, which again, I get that you have to put all your findings as far as like evidence and transcripts. That just seems like you're trying to bury stuff. Yeah. Like who wants, like, you want to read this? You're like, how long is?

They're like, hey, well, can you just point out the good stuff to me? No, I're going to have to read it. Summarize this shit in fucking 44 pages. And if I got questions, then I'll come to you. Well, thankfully, that's what the internet's done. Yeah, that's true. It just, it's so crazy. And it was, the commission was named after Chief Justice Earl Warren.

I believe he was at the head of it. Yeah, so he was the one that Johnson actually approached and was like, I need you to head up the commission on this. And initially he was like, nah, I'll pass. And then he said something to the effect of. So if your commander-in-chief asked you to put on a uniform in the defense of your country, would you say no? And he's like, I get what you're going with this.

So fine, I'll do it. And the only really other makeup of the war in community, mission that we have to mention, just because it may or may not play a role later on. Alan Dulles, the former head of the CIA. Why was he the former head of the CIA? We actually made mention of him in the LSD episode, in the MK Ultra. And it just wasn't a great man. It didn't seem like he was a real team player.

May have had an axe to grind after Kennedy had let him go. There we go. That's what I was looking for. Yeah. So November 22nd, 1963, John F. Kennedy, Jacqueline Kennedy, Onassis, Jackie O'Neill, Governor Connolly. Lyndon B. Johnson was there. But they weren't in the car.

No, no, no, they weren't. I'm just describing kind of what happened. So they all arrive in Texas. Kennedy's there to essentially do like a tour kind of building up support for the election in 64. Hey, he's running again. Yeah. He's doing, he's done amazing. things incredible things so far he's probably pretty much going to be a shoe in to get reelected

but you still have to hit the campaign trail well he was also there they said because there was some type of like schism between like texas democrats and he was there trying to like men fences because he needed everybody on the same page kind of come election time all kind of sending the same message democrats in texas i mean you have to try to yeah bring everybody that you can so uh lina b johnson his wife was it ladybird Johnson is that it was okay that wasn't a real name right yeah it was oh seriously oh uh I don't think it was like her birth given name but that's what everyone called her yeah okay so they're all there to to do this tour through they've gone to other places in Texas as well so

this is when they were doing their stop in Dallas and they get in a limousine they have a route from I think like the airport or wherever Air Force one or Air Force one landed and the route takes them through a certain section of Dallas, downtown Dallas, and then they're meeting at a place for a luncheon. It's called, what the fuck was that place called? I don't remember the luncheon place. Okay. They're trying to get to some place to have like a luncheon.

And riding in the car, it's a limousine without a top on it. They decided on that day, because was it nice. It was sunny outside. It was sunny. It had been raining. Yes. So they weren't going to use the bubble, which basically the bubble was a fucking bulletproof bubble that went over the car.

Really effective at stopping bullets, I'm sure. So probably would have been a good thing to have. So riding in the car, you have two secret service guys, driver seat, passenger seat. Again, this is a limo. Behind them in what they called jump seats were the governor of Texas on the right, or the passenger side, and then his wife on the driver's side, behind them and then in the where you would consider the back seats

were Kennedy on the passenger side sitting behind the governor of Texas and then Jackie O sitting to his left they were kind of and the reason I mentioned this is because it's going to play into essentially how everything goes down their seats I guess the jump seats were sitting down lower

and then the seats behind them where the Kennedys were sitting up just a little bit higher I want to make sense because they use this type of thing for the sort of events. You put your top shelf up there. Yeah. You want to show off Kennedy and Jackie O. It's not safe to have him sitting like up on the trunk.

So you need to raise them in stature to be able to be seen. That or the seat was just this normal position and they're like, we're going to need to lower the governor's seat. Just put, just park that shit on the floor board basically. I can see JFK pulling that. JFK was a very interesting man and we will do a full episode on him. but this dude's confidence for I'll say it this way

JFK probably should have died like five times in his life yeah I'm sure he was read his last rights multiple times in the hospital they had a Kennedy death watch while he was a senator did they really yeah because he he went in for I think it was like a bladder infection or a UTI which I immediately thought it was probably from banging somebody but it was something that was like a side effect

from a back surgery that he was not when he got it yep and well he went in for back surgery and then he ended up with this So it all kind of lines up that way But yeah, they had a death watch on the news for Kennedy They sent a pastor in to give him his last rights And then he just slowly got better and better and better And this was when he was a senator

So this was pre-president Yeah, well this was a little bit more severe than a bladder infection Yeah, a little bit more But the guy's just absolute confidence in life To just seem like do everything Youngest president still the youngest president ever I mean, top of the world, man. So the route takes them through downtown, Dallas.

It goes down Main Street. It takes a right onto Houston Street into Dealey Plaza. And Dealey Plaza is basically just kind of a wide open area. There's no buildings there, but it's basically where like three roads kind of fork. And then they all kind of merge together to go under like a railroad overpass. And he turns right onto Houston, and then he's turning left onto Elm. And this basically takes him on the left fork, I guess. It would be the far right fork in the direction the car is going.

Down kind of a hill, curving down, and then underneath the underpass. Well, to each side on Elm, there are these little, like, grassy areas, not parks, because you can't really access them because you can't go across the road. More like a knoll? Yeah. On one side, there was a slight knoll that happened to been kind of grassy. Is that what null means? It's like a little hill?

Yeah. Huh. Yep. and so coming down the Elm Street at about 12.30 p.m. And the reason they're able to know it's 1230 is one of the secret service agents following behind Kennedy's car.

So you've got a secret service vehicle behind Kennedy's car. That one has, I think, four agents in it and then like two guys on running boards hanging off kind of the side, like you would see in like a swap movie. Yeah, not... That this could lead into a conspiracy theory, but those secret service members were carrying AR-15s. Well, why wouldn't you be?

I didn't know that AR-15s were that old. Yeah. I thought it was a newer gun. At that time, that was Vietnam and everything. So there were like M-16s. Really? Yeah, that's what they used in Vietnam. Like the old school, like three-round burst, M-16, or the fully automatic, I guess.

I'm just remembered. I'm from Call of Duty. but you would think that maybe there would be an AR based off that because it's just a salt, or I can't, armament something, whatever AR-15 stands for. I think it's Armolite, some,

I think it's armor light something with an R. Yeah. So, and then behind that card, that's where Linda B. Johnson and them are riding. And I don't know if they were running with a lieutenant governor or whatever. So they turn on to Elm and as they're heading kind of down this, hill and slowly curving. The car's going about 11 miles an hour. There's a gunshot, and there's

going to be a debate between how many gunshots, the time between them, and stuff like that. But basically, um, there's a shot. It misses a second shot. And that hits Kennedy in the back, the exposed part. So I thought it was like in the back of the neck. It was more like in his trap down lower just to the went through his esophagus. He was kind of slouching. So from the, no one's going to be able to see what I'm doing right now, but I'm going to try to describe it. So if you're sitting in a chair and then you decide to lean forward,

you're slouching a little bit. So if you were to do a downward angle like the trajectory was going, it would go in through on your right hand side, your trap just below your neck. It missed his spine. And then because of how he was slouching forward, the angle of travel came out right. I want to say almost like where you're...

Clavicles come together. Where your what? Clavicles come together. Yeah, kind of in the front where you get that kind of you shaped, like below, if you have an Adam's apple, like, down below, like, three or four inches below your Adams. If you don't have an Adam's apple, it's where your Adam's apple would be, like, three or four inches below that. And in the video, I mean, you can see exactly what's happening. So Kennedy and this is a Pruder film, he both hands go up to his neck to cover the exit wound.

And then as that's happening, Jackie, I, There's something in the car. Who, someone said, like, did Kennedy say I've been shot? Because the Secret Service say, there's some reports that they heard him say that.

I think it was just the gunfire and the reaction. It was the gunfire and the reaction. It was pretty immediate. So, and there's a prudent from, he covers his neck and then literally kind of leans in,

and it's almost like Jackie is trying to, like, put her arm around him to try to, like, not shield him, but like he's leaning into her. And as he leans into her, his head kind of turns.

And then, how many seconds would you say after that first when he goes up to his neck? It's literally like three seconds maybe. Yeah, I think would you classify it as, was it enough time to reload a bolt-action rifle? I'll get to that. But then after that, after as he's gripped in his neck and Jackie's kind of like leaning toward him, basically the right-hand side of his temple explodes.

And in the Zuproo film, you can basically tell him that happens. And as that happens, very important to note, his head goes backwards. and to the left, as if the shot came from in front or slightly in front of him into his right. First shot goes into his back. I know you're going to offer your explanation.

I'm going to be completely open to trying to rationalize it. Yeah, I just, I'm not good at science, so I don't really understand. But as he's hit with that shot, you can literally see, like, the front of his skull kind of explode a little bit. And that's when Secret Service

kind of gets on the ball knowing something's going on. They try to speed out of there. The guy jumps on the back of them to try to cover them. Jackie starts leaning over the back of the car to go out onto the trunk because she, like we said in the first part, she's trying to pick up a piece of his brain and everything,

which that's pure shock of seeing just what happened, everything like that. That's like seeing if someone got their finger cut off, you looking down and being like, I should probably grab that because they could like, do you think that's kind of the, that had to have been the rationale, right? I think it was like watching Humpty Dumpty Fall

and trying to put him back together. Like there's no possible way that that part of his skull and brain are going back onto his head. But I think she, in essence, it was like she spilled a glass of milk and was like trying to run down to clean it up, broke quick. But like pure shock. Like, not having any understanding. This was just instinct driven.

Like, that's a piece of matter that's on there. I don't know what it is. That doesn't belong there. That belongs on my husband's head or in my husband's head. I'm going to grab that. And so as soon as that happens, Secret Service agent from the rear runs and jumps on the back of the car and it basically just hauls ass underneath the overpass.

They rush Kennedy to what hospital was it? Something Memorial. Which one? It was something Memorial. Hartland? Yeah, that sounds right. Hartland Memorial something. Rush him there.

Again, I'm not sure why. You have. Because when he got there, apparently he's still out of pulse. He didn't have like half of his face and brain. I realize that, but at the same time, like, if there was enough to keep, I'm not, like, he would have died. Yeah. He could have died after the first shot and everything. What I'm saying, though, is that...

This is very important to the story, though. It is. So, they get him there to the hospital, and because he still has a pulse, they perform a tracheotomy. And what did they use for the tracheot? Where does a tracheotomy go? Kind of in that same spot that he got shot. So they used that spot. they literally did the operation.

They just shoved it through the hole? I think they cleaned, like, either cleaned it up or made it to where they needed. They used that hole to put in the tracheotomy to keep air going to his lungs and everything like that. And then literally, minutes after that happened, he was pronounced dead. Do you think they plugged up the backside where the entry wound was, just to make sure that it was, that the oxygen was pumping down to his lungs, like a carb? Well, and when we discuss, like, the autopsy and everything, it's just this thing is a fucking, comedy of like, wait, like you guys did what?

It's fucking ridiculous. So there's no turn in the story where there's not an alternate seemingly better answer to the question. No. So after this happens, do you want to take over? Am I talking too much? No, go ahead. Okay. So after this happens in all of the chaos, of course, not everyone's just following Kennedy

the hospital. Secret Service is locking down the area at Daly Plaza. they're searching buildings and everything. There was a motorcycle cop that was following toward the back of the motorcade. And he, when he, I think he was coming down

whatever, it's not Elm Street. I'm trying to think, I think he was coming down Houston Street when the first shot was off. It was the street that they turned from onto Elm. And he heard the shot and I guess he looked up and thought he saw,

he saw pigeons flying off the roof of the Texas Book Depository, the Texas School Book Depository. Pallesatory, which is a building that basically overlooks Dili Plaza. It's right on the corner where they turned off Houston Street onto Elm, right on that corner. Massive building. Yes, it's a huge building. I mean, comparative to the buildings around it and everything like that, yeah, it's only like six or seven stories tall.

It's not, but it's huge because you have to store a bunch of books in there. Yes. Well, it's a warehouse. It's basically a six-store warehouse. so he sees some pigeons flying off there. He apparently was a deer hunter, so he recognized the sound of a high caliber. Super cop.

Yeah, Supercop. And he goes and goes into the Texas book depository. It's not, from a lot of the reports, it didn't sound like it was chaos because it's not like everything was happening there. As soon as it happened, the cars were gone. People were kind of like, had gotten down on the ground because they heard shooting and everything,

but it wasn't like mass panic of everybody. Like, everyone just dispersed and then secret service and cops were trying to wrangle people at the scene of the crime to try to get testimonies. Well, there was still an active shooter on the list. Exactly, yeah. So this cop goes into the Texas book Depository and, like, almost immediately runs into essentially like the supervisor of the building, right? Do you remember what his name was? No, but he was the guy that kind of helped facilitate get Oswald the job. Yeah.

Oswald had interviewed with him. Mm-hmm. We haven't even gotten to his full name yet. Oh, yeah. So cop tells him, hey, I think I, something came from this building. He's like, I need you to take me up to this floor. Up to the sixth floor, I think it was. Just very accurate with this guy's understanding. And this is all in the Warren report. This is where all the information is coming from is his testimony, essentially to, like, the feds and the government during his questioning. So the guy who walks the cop Through the book depository is Roy truly I think he was like the superintendent Of the building And he

I don't know if they get an elevator They're going up the stairs or something like that But they end up seeing somebody in the second floor Or was it fourth floor break room I thought it was the second Second floor They run into a guy who's drinking a Just bought a Coke out of the vending machine

And the cop is like You know who are you stop and the superintendent's like, oh, he works here. And that employee's name happened to be. Lee Harvey Oswald. Just enjoying a Coke. Going about his business. The triple name trifecta of bad people in this world.

I think he may have started the three-name trend of addressing certain bad people with three names. John Wilkes both. Oh, shit. Maybe that's why they do win with the Lee Harvey-Awold. They had to, in the same vein of presidential assassins. Yeah, yeah. And that's another thing that we can't really so short on this was JFK was the fourth and so far most recent. Last.

Yeah, but most recent presidents to be assassinated. It was on a stabe. Then it was Garfield. Guy probably hated Mondays and didn't agree with him. McKinley, who got shot at a Pan American exhibition, which if you didn't, into our World Expo episode. We didn't mention it. So now you know about that.

Yeah, you died like two weeks later, but of the, of that. Yeah. And then we have JFK. And I believe this is it. Four for 46. All four of them were guns, gun related. Yeah. I mean, what else would they be?

Oh, I guess I'm, or bombing. Poisoning or, yeah, that's true. I didn't even really think about it like that. So they, um, let him go. Lee Harvey Oswald, Lee Harvey Oswald, ends up leaving.

They go up to the sixth floor, and he thought he had seen something from like the corner window when I guess he was approaching the building or when he looked up and saw the pigeons. There was one window open, probably. Yeah. And so they're looking around,

and I'm going to get some, a little bit of the details wrong. I don't know what gets found first. I think... First off, there's no way they don't smell gunpowder as soon as they get up there. I don't think they did. Really?

You don't smell it like that, man. Like with those... Even in a confined building, though? No, because the rifle was sticking out. You still do... You're still clearing the breach, though. With shell casings like these, like copper shell casings and everything, it's not like a muzzle loader where there's like...

It does smell a little bit, but if an open window, some airflow and everything, you're not going to smell it like that. I guess it was only three shots. Yeah. So... Maybe. within the course of investigating this area they find not just them but I think

during the investigation when they bring more either FBI Secret Service up they end up finding three shell casings and they find a like a big paper bag and then they eventually find kind of wedge between some boxes or crates I can't remember what they call them they find a

oh what the fuck is this thing called Stutz on O no it's the gun Yeah. He doesn't start with it. Oh, it's an hilarious name. It is the man-licker Carcano rifle. Oh, Carcano, C.

Yeah. Yeah. No, no, C. The man-licker. It's, weirdly enough, man-licker apparently is German. But then I don't know the Carcano is Italian, but it's an Italian-made World War II bolt action with a magazine. The reason I'm stating it has a magazine is because in a bolt action that does not have a magazine or internal storage, you're literally, having to feed a shell or into the breach and then put it in there.

It takes more time, but it's still a bolt action. So it takes time when you shoot it. You then have to lift the bolt, pull it back, the slightest come back, eject the cartridge. Then the magazine brings up the new one, and then you can put it forward and put it down again. It's something that does take time and practice, which someone will eventually have practice on that. Yeah, eventually you kind of have to come to turban. with like to be able to fire because it was three shots in how many seconds was it was it nine the general consensus is somewhere between like six and nine seconds okay it seems so much shorter than that because

i know in in when you're watching the zabruder film you don't see when the first shot was fired or and you can't tell where it misses you there's not like something that hits on the car and you can see like spark like it's not movie shit yeah it just glanced off the road didn't it yeah and then the second one, that hits him through the shoulder in the neck. So I don't know, it's not instantaneous, like where he is automatically shot and then he reaches up. He gets shot and it's probably in shock for a second.

Then it's like, oh shit, and then reaches up. And then there's maybe, it seems like a lifetime, but it might be solid like two to three seconds, maybe four seconds between that last shot that finishes him off. So to fire a shot, pullback,

reload, cite it back in from what, 80 yards away is what it was? I was going over this in my mind. I used to hunt when I was younger, and so I've used... And when you're hunting, the only rifles that you can use are bolt action.

You can't use semi-autos. It's ridiculous that you should even think that you have to use semi-automatic. If you're that bad of a shot, you probably should be hunting. It's not that, like, you already have a fucking gun against, like, a deer. You don't need to be able to pop off, you know, a bunch of fucking shots at the deer.

Chances are two semi-automatics aren't as accurate. Your first shot by bad. accurate, but if you try to pull multiple shots, you might just wound the animal and it's going to walk off and just be hurt. But anyway, and also at the time of the World War II technology, most a lot of guns

had bolt action, especially ones that were designed for marksmen or like long range shooting. Even six to nine seconds, here's the thing. If he's sitting, he's in a position where he has it rested on the windowsill, so he has a stable base. It's not him holding it trying to get a shot. He

probably set himself up a decent position. I'm going to get into Lee Harvey here in a second, or we're going to talk about it. We need to discuss how he got caught because it was very quickly that he got caught, but he was a former Marine. And during his time in the Marines, he did actually score pretty well on his shooting.

He wasn't an expert marksman, was he? Well, after the first time for Lee Harvey going in there, the first time he took his marksman skills challenge or whatever it is, he scored a 212, which is slightly above requirements to be a sharpshooter. Three years later, he scores a 191, not enough to be a sharpshooter, but still enough for marksman grade. So not a bad shot.

That still doesn't make this shot easy. No, and just to counteract the great numbers that you just gave, he also accidentally shot himself in the elbow one time. Yes, I'm not sure if he did that purposely to get out of it. Still. Doesn't look good. No. It's not a good look.

There's something else that happens that might not be a good look either toward its marksman skills. An expert marksman that accidentally shoots himself, you're getting knocked out a few pegs. Yeah. So, but to be in a position to side up on a car traveling away from you. Going like 10 miles an hour?

They said like between 10 and 11. This is the best way I can describe this as far as the shot goes. Hold out three of your fingers in the way that Americans do. Like when you hold out your middle finger, your index finger, and then your ring finger. If you're looking at those where your fingers join your actual palm and everything, that is the underpass

for where these three roads in Dealey Plaza are going. If you're looking at your fingers, the one on the far left, that's Elm. That's where Kennedy's traveling down. If you were to look next to your fingernail, that's where the book depository is.

And the window that he's in is the farthest one away from your fingernail, but on that same side. So it's as much as you can in that building Getting a straight line of sight It's got a little It's the most advantageous position in the building Like it was well thought out

Yes To have a downward line of sight again sixth floor So he's up minimum 60 feet Looking down at a car traveling Almost directly away from him At about 11 miles an hour Okay here's the thing The car is about 240 feet away

Which doesn't sound like a ton but it's 80 yards. That's a lot. Still a lot. That's not taking into account. I don't know the height as well because that does add on distance to it. And as

that shot and everything, if he's following Kennedy down, takes the first shot misses. With this, he doesn't really, if he's a marksman, he's not taking his eye away from the scope. He's just doing this. Like, the way I'm acting as Adam

is I have the gun in my hands. My eye is staying close to the scope. All my hands doing that I pulled the trigger with is going up, pulling the slide back, putting it back down and loading in the next round. Even fragmental movement of that bolt action. No, no, I'm not saying he's staying precisely on the target. He missed the first time, obviously. And so what I'm saying is to then make sure you're siding up for another shot while the car is still traveling away from you, it's getting further away from you. To do three shots in a span of six to nine seconds and to make the last two accurate,

is pretty fucking difficult. Yeah, I don't. That's not even to say you're adrenaline kicking in and all that kind of stuff. Like, unless you're a complete fucking psychopath, man, you're about ready to shoot the president, committed, you know, well, actually, weirdly enough, not a federal crime at that point.

It was a crime and not a federal crime. But... Just to be able to figure out the rate of speed that the vehicle is moving to be able to lead that shot, because it's not like you can just keep it fixed on the president and move along with it. You have to be able to lead it a little bit ahead of him, don't you? It's an exceptional shot. Yeah. Not just making it once, but multiple ones. So that's kind of describing

what they found up there and kind of like what the theory is behind Oswald being up there. Yeah, it was found like 70 minutes later. They caught him like an hour and 10 minutes after that. Yeah, he was working that day. And but he left. And so that kind of raised eventually when they were trying to figure out how to tie him to this. His boss was like, yeah, he should. should have come back today. He leaves, I guess he gets on a bus, and as he is traveling back to his house, coincidentally, one of his former landlady's,

like Landlady was on the bus, so that's how they were able to identify him on the bus. Like that's where they knew he went, you know, when they were putting together his escape or whatever. His timeline. He gets, huh? His timeline for where he went afterwards. He goes home and he gets a,

he had a third. 38, let's see what kind of was it. It was like a 38. It was a revolver, wasn't it? Smith and Weston revolver. Because that was the one that he had allegedly used to try to assassinate that Republican at his house. No, no, no, that was the rifle. Oh, it was the rifle against?

Oh, I thought he tried to use a revolver on that guy. So there was something about, like, him zipping up his jacket or something like that during, like, the Warren Commission when this lady is giving testimony that was supposed to like, it's like a move. movie when you kind of foreshadowed something like what's in his jacket. So there was someone during this time frame when they're questioning, because of course they're still at the scene of the crime. They're trying to get reports out, put out APBs on, you know, suspicious looking characters. Someone gives the description of Lee Harvey-Awold, which was, I think, like, 5-8. He's like 100, wasn't like 135 pounds?

Tremendously average-looking individual. Yeah. But, and also somehow, so they kind of had like, a description of like hair color, height and everything. So there was APB put out on that. And then he's walking down the street away from his house. I'm not sure where he was going. But a cop, what was the cop's name?

Fuck, Dip it. Yep. What was this full, do you have the full name? No. I thought it was just Officer Dibbitts is what I saw. Dibb. So this guy, he gets the APB and sees this guy. and basically kind of is following him in his car

and pulls up very slowly next to him to ask him a question or something like that. And I think he must have been on the... He was following him and Lee Harvey was walking on the right side. So he had the passenger seat between them and everything. So I think he came up and leaned against the window and was asking the... Like the cop asked him, he's like,

hey, you know, what are you doing? Where were you? And something happens to prompt the cop to get out of the car. and he starts walking around, and as he walks around and gets around to Lee Harvey's side of the car, four shots ended up bringing up. And at this point, there's like six or seven witnesses of people around that hear these shots

and see this cop get shot, and then see this guy basically like take off. So now you have more people with me on to provide descriptions and everything. Unfortunately, Officer Dippet, died, got shot four times, had tried to draw his gun because he was out of his holster underneath him but unfortunately he got snuck up on how far away do you think news would have spread in Dallas at that point

because we're only talking hour hour and 10 minutes this was less than that's this was they had him arrested within like 60 minutes yeah I think it was they said an hour and 10 but that's how by where they were in the neighborhood after he took the bus and everything to get away from there do you think they had heard that JFK had been assassinated yet or shot oh as far as that goes

I'm sure Because in the 60s You're not getting like Immediate news I'm sure it's on TVs But you're not watching TV And then going outside There were probably news broadcast

Maybe like a news broadcast team Radio's in the car maybe Yeah at Dealey Plaza It didn't mean they had cameras on it But you could have someone out there Or a journalist Just like taking pictures And they call or get to a pay phone

To call back I don't know if common people Just people on the streets Walking around They didn't weren't someplace Where a radio was playing at the time would have had any idea. So at this point, they just see this guy kill a cop.

No one's thinking like this is the guy that just tried to assassinate JFK. That's the craziest thing they think they're going to see or hear about all day. Yeah. So through tips and everything and people seeing where this guy went, they're able to call in

and basically say, this guy killed a cop. No idea it's even related to JFK at this point. Nobody, like the cops don't know this is really, they just, maybe they have an idea, but they basically corner this guy at a movie theater. He sneaks into a movie theater. they go into the theater and arrest him. I'm not sure if there's,

I think there's a struggle. I don't know if he tries, there's a report that maybe he tries to draw his gun and everything and they're able to like grab it from him. I know he had a mark on his forehead where they said, he said he got beat by the cops, which I'm not surprised. Yeah.

He just shot and killed a couple more marks. Yeah. So he gets brought into custody and brought to the police station on charges of killing the cop. So during this, time the Secret Service and FBI are doing their investigation and start getting reports in. And then the guy, I think it, what was his name? I just truly mentioned something about.

The superintendent. Yeah, mentioned something about Lee Harvey not being there accounted for at the office, like after the time he was supposed to be there. So they start kind of putting this together. They find this point, I think the shell casing, so they know someone had access to the building. They put out, I think, a search for Lee Harvey Oswald, end up getting. back to the police station to do this and realize that these other

cops have brought in the guy that they're looking for for killing a cop. What a tremendous fine. Yeah. And so this is basically at this point the conclusion's already been made that this is the guy that shot and killed JFK. Like it's one of those things

that it was already kind of made. It was laid to bear right there. That was the narrative from the get-go. And from where they, They had him in the police station to the interrogation room. There was like a 30-foot stretch of hallway just filled with reporters. So every time they transferred him back and forth, I think they said 18 times. So nine trips, basically, you know, one there, one back.

Just talk to him in the fucking cell. You got to start getting fucking information out of him, finding out there's more people. Yeah, interrogate him in there. Don't keep walking them by reporters or reporters plus. Well, they're asking him questions. He's saying, I didn't do this, had nothing to do with it or anything like that. he was denied even having anything to do with like the cop or anything, despite literally being found with like the revolver on him.

People watched it happen. Yeah. So at this point, Lee Harvey Oswald is the lone gunman and the findings of the Warren Commission despite... We can't forget about how he ends. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so two days later, as they're walking him through the basement, like you were talking about through that hallway, Among the reporters, there was a...

70 cops, 70 uniformed officers. A lot of people, a lot of coverage, a lot of security on this guy. A lot of cowboy hats. There was a, I believe he was a nightclub promoter and may have had a few other positions that were less known. Some previous positions. To the people. Jack Ruby.

Jack Ruby supposedly didn't, they say that he was known to Kennedy, like him and Kennedy were friends or something. like that. I thought they may have been in the same orbit. But Jack Kennedy pulls a revolver in the hallway. Not Jack Kennedy. Or John Kennedy. Pulls a revolver.

No, no, no, no. Jack Ruby. Jesus. Too many Js. Too many rubies. Just do Ruby. Okay, so Ruby pulls out a revolver from underneath his jacket, shoots, and kills Lee Harvey Oswald on national TV, on live TV.

All these cameras. This is the most ridiculous fucking thing in a story filled with ridiculous fucking things. They, he is on, like you said, live national TV. They open like the basement door. It's in the parking garage underneath Dallas police station. They've taken the precautions to switch cars around a couple different times of like how they're going to transport and they finally decide on like an armored car. and as they, did you watch the footage? I've seen the shooting in the snippets.

I haven't seen it. I saw maybe it was like a 10 second clip. That's probably what it is. They walk him out and he's being on each side of him, he's got, I'm guessing, a detective because essentially they're wearing blazers and fucking cowboy hats. Lined look like a bunch of detectives because they're all lining this area that they're bringing him out this little kind of narrow corridor out to like the main parking garage. And then there's also like reporters and all the camera crews and everything.

Jack Ruby literally steps out from like the left side and takes like four steps. And as he's taking the four steps like on the last one, pulls out a gun and literally gut shots Oswald from a foot away. Yeah. How do you let anybody in that crowd ever get that close to a criminal? How is there anyone that doesn't have press credentials isn't a cop or a federal agent or anything like that? Like, who's fucking watching the entrances to this fucking parking garage? Yeah, I imagine it wouldn't have been hard for him to get fake credentials from somebody.

He seemed to be a pretty well-connected guy, so he could have snuck his way here. He didn't have, as far as everything went, he did not have fake credentials. He apparently, some of the cops in town knew him. Weird that, like, a nightclub owner or promoter and everything like that would just be friendly with, like, the cops in the town and everything. Yeah. Apparently he was, so some of them knew him. So, like, I don't know if they were like, hey, Jack Rooke.

just wants to come watch Oswald get taken out or he's walking in the garage. Like, hey, Jack, what's going? He's like, oh, just watching the prison. Like, you don't have a gun on you, do you? Oh, ha. So Jack Ruby goes down for the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald. In the same, coincidentally, two days later, he dies in the same hospital that JFK died in two days before. Yeah, that's good.

That's poetic justice. But Jack Ruby's whole. sentencing hearing and everything like that. He was supposed to get a life sentence. They imposed it. And then a judge overturned it later. And he served, I think it was like 21 years or something like that.

Well, he only served four. Or I think it got commuted down to 21. And then, yeah, he only served four. Yeah. Well, no, he didn't only surf. He only served four due to the fucking heart attack. Yeah. But still, he could have been.

So it's tied up then, right? Well, you'd think. It's, I mean, yeah, JFK's dead, but you got the guy that shot him and killed him. That guy got shot and killed. Got that guy. Without, you know, divulging any information or giving his motives or anything like that. So that's very, very clean.

And then, yeah, the guy that ended up shooting him dies four years later of a heart attack in jail. No loose ends, right? Yeah, I just, I don't know. I mean, how great of a story that is. It sounds, there's some things that kind of make you scratch. at your head, but it sounds... Well, Adam, that's the official story. That's what the Warren Commission, this committee put together to investigate the assassination of a president. I mean, there wasn't anybody on that commission that had anything against JFK or would try to just

sweep anything under the rug, right? I mean, not... Nobody had an axe to grind? Yeah, nobody at all. Not even the guy that, you know, was the head of the CIA. Dulles, yeah, Alan Dulles. I, the whole ADB on the Warren Commission, it all makes total sense. You have to get that figured out, and you also have to be able to explain that. Like, any time there's a massive issue that happens, whether it was 9-11,

really any major national tragedy that happens, there's always a commission that's put together to find out all the facts, to get all the information, to compile everything. So that way, the final report, which like we said earlier, Warren Commission, final report was 888 pages. Sounds like a shit load, but you have to compile

literally like the whole storyline of the official story that's going to be put out. Well, guess what? We're reopening the case. Courts in session, because I don't buy it. No. It stinks. No, and we're certainly not the only one. They have rehashed this and gone over this so many times from 75 at the church committee,

which we'll talk about. 76, they actually created a select house committee for assassinations. Yeah, the House Select Committee on Assassinations. HC or whatever. So we're just creating house committees to investigate assassinations because they're just starting pile up. They're also finding out something different, though. None of their information matches up on these committees or anything.

I mean, unless you got anything else to go over on the actual like day of and everything like that, do you just kind of want to get into what the prevailing theories are? Well, we have to talk about the official theory. And the official theory, after everything that they went through at the Warren Commission, was that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone actor. They don't believe that there was any foreign or domestic interference that may have been a corroborator with him. Just basically they said that he had become disillusioned

with his environment was the reasoning for the assassination. So the official story on the actual ballistics of the shooting was that there were three shots fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. First one was a miss. The second bullet hit Kennedy, in the neck. It then went back. Yep.

And then went through the front of his neck. It hit Connolly, who was sitting down and in front of him in the, like right below his armpit, but a little into the left, into his back. That then exited him right below his nipple. He had his wrist, I believe, like sitting. The way the camera has it sitting, it looks like he's kind of like he has his wrist on his thigh and he's turning over to like the left to talk to his wife or something like that. The bullet then exits below his nipple, goes through his wrist, and then lodges itself in his thigh,

his right thigh, correct? Because everything is on that same side. Yeah, it's almost like a magical trajectory. Like a magic bullet, right? Yeah. The magic bullet theory, and is crazy, incoidental as it sounds and everything with this, I guess it, The trajectory could be possible. It's a high-powered rifle. It's not going through a ton of meat on Kennedy.

The back of his neck where his traps are. I mean, he didn't have huge traps. He's not yoked. Not a large man, no. But the fact that it could still go then through Connolly, still have enough to penetrate his wrist and then get lodged in his thigh. And then this bullet just happens to coincidentally appear on Connolly's gurney

at the hospital and is in remarkably weirdly good shape like hardly distorted at all Yeah I mean I would Push back on that a little bit Because There have been a couple Recent

like ammo experts That have studied the bullet That said even though it was intact Was more of the reason why they called it remarkable, like remarkably good shape. There was a bend to it because after the Geneva Convention, one of the rules of

warfare was that their bullets had to be what was called a full metal jacket, which means that it's a solid outside and it's a solid tip where it's a hollow point or any other Yeah, the ammo that you're talking about that tends to mushroom and disperse is like, or tends to break apart

is like, they call like what, frangible? Oh, yeah. It's something like, that. So basically, you, this bullet stayed intact. It wasn't like mushroomed or anything like that. It didn't break apart. It was like all together. Whereas the other bullet that shot him in the head through all of their ballistic studies, that happened to have been a different type of bullet that was more of the frangible one. And that's the one that breaks apart to where it's just breaking apart

into shards and pieces of shrapnel. Fragments, yeah. and fragments and you can't find any of it. Well, you can find traces and chunks of it, but you'll never, rarely will you ever find

a fully intact bullet. Exactly. But this first one that was fired did have a little bit of distortion to it, and I recommend, like, if you hear it, well, they found it in, Connolly's leg.

But if you hear the trajectory of it, it sounds fucking impossible. But when you actually... I'm sitting here by myself when you were doing something, and I'm sitting there, and I'm like, so he would be sitting here,

and, here's what I don't understand about the trajectory. I'm not sure exactly how the seats in the car were as far as like how many inches to the left was. He took the right. The angle of the car when he took the shots was not like directly away from him to where whatever trajectory, you know, Kennedy was straight in front of here at this point. It was almost to where if he fired the bullet would have hit Kennedy and gone almost a little bit. like in a little bit more right and then left a little and then left his body a little more to the left of where it entered like in a straight line it was a little bit more off center yeah so for

it to go into kennedy's back and then exit it almost felt like it had to be a straight on shot or conley had to be leaning or kennedy had to be way over to like the right the way that the car was positioned everything but i would say it's more plausible than what it sounds it is but what i'm getting at here is then why was the second bullet not able to be found or why wasn't it like that? Why wasn't it fragmented? Yeah, because there's a good chance. You know, why was it fragmented? Or yeah, why was it fragmented? Probably because it's a good chance that it came from somewhere else. Because you, as you were talking about with the loader in the bolt action that he was using, it had the magazine in the bottom of it, those I don't believe are really guns that you could load

like a full metal jacket round and then load like a hollow point you wouldn't use a hollow point except far away they didn't make so a hollow point as far as like caliber of rifles like that it's possible that they made some variation of a hollow point

or they make them now for like deer hunting and stuff like that basically you have the round and then the tip of it is almost hardened plastic so that is like is it enters it can yeah but because the plastic essentially can disperse or break apart, it then almost looks like a hollow point inside and can react kind of like a hollow point

by dispersing and causing a larger exit wound and more damage. But you're going to get more accuracy because it's a solid point in front of it to convert the air. So that's why they didn't make rifle rounds as hollow points because it's traveling through the air, even that non-airdynamic, it'll throw off your precision from a long range. That's why only pistols that you're only meant to, you know, shoot from like, you know, 15 to 20 feet away, why you can have hollow points in those. But it just would have had to have been a different bullet.

It would have had to have been loaded in the magazine It was the second round That you would have had to have known Actually, I guess we'd have been third round Yeah Because the first one was a miss, second one was a hit Third one was the one that dispersed Inside of a skull

So I don't know how you load two of the same round And then one of a different round Like you're not going to be able to match it up that much I have a sneaking suspicion That if it was Oswald And Oswald did fire the first shot And hit him in the skull There wouldn't have been a second or third shot fired

Had he hit him first Yeah Had he not missed the first time and had the second one looked a little bit more critical? Well, he hit the first one, and it would have been a critical shot on that first one. I don't think the second, whoever was that second shooter, would have even had to shoot. An insurance policy. I think that person, and we'll talk about that a little more in depth, I think that person was there in a position to where, if they were far enough away from Oswald and he missed, that person could still take a shot. You think second shot or third shot?

whatever, whatever shot needed, I don't think the plan was that if Oswald missed, Kennedy was still not to reach that underpass. They had a position established that was able to take a shot, were to get out of the capabilities of Oswald. Allegedly. We're out of the official Warren Commission talk when we say that there could be a second one. The official Warren Commission findings were that he was a lone actor that did it by himself. Yes. Without the support of a foreign or domestic government. Yep. and the stuff that we're going to talk about

like it's not some of this stuff might get a little bit it's not even into ridiculousness it's more like finding connectivity between the threads and everything but when the reason that 61% of people believe that this isn't the official story is because a lot of the other evidence

and things you're looking at it doesn't line up with what the official story is in a very clear way now and there's so many theories and so many things and this is sort of my take on it and it's just a few things that we can run through as to things that happen during Kennedy's tenure as president. So are we going to group these

into essentially how they tie into? I have essentially like some like three prevailing theories that we can then kind of tie everything what it falls under as far as like the motive for those theories. Yeah and this is this is just one theory you're going to notice a very common thread through all this stuff. But prior to the essential, assassination, January 20th, 1961, Kennedy takes office, and he shifted policies of the Cold War from more of like a

defensive, offensive stance to be like, we need to talk about this, we need to get it figured out. A diplomatic stance, basically. Yeah, I need to go meet Cruz Jeff. Him and I have to have more talks. Like, this doesn't have to end in nuclear war, basically. And in our country, during the Cold War,

We're in 15, 16 years after World War II. It's still full-blown like Red Scare. Yeah, we know that communism is the next threat after that. So we're going to probably use this word more than once. And it's something that's referred to as a military industrial complex, which is basically everybody that benefits from war, whether it be manufacturers, steel manufacturers, armor manufacturers. Petroleum is a huge one.

What do you need to make all your... your vehicles go and your helicopters and your planes fly. So if we're stuck under this veil of the Cold War and it's intensifying, you have these industries that are still making a shit ton of money because we're building up armaments for what we believe could be in an end of war war. Not even us. We could be selling them to other countries.

I mean, that's not an... We do sell stuff to allies and things like that. Rebel groups as well. So we start to see in the country that Kennedy isn't the same old president that we've had before. He's trying to look for more diplomatic means than just rammed. it down the throats. March 23rd, JFK of that same year, 61,

JFK pulled back his support for the anti-communist CIA installed leader of Laos. So prior to Kennedy being brought into office, it was what Eisenhower? Yeah. Which Eisenhower gave a speech

against the military industrial complex. Yeah, that was like, that was in 58 or 59. I think it was one of his last speeches. But he just came in and he said, I know that the CIA put this anti-communist leader in Laos, which I believe now may be a communist country. Did we assassinate the previous one? That's where I think we may have installed because we de-installed the other guy. I feel like, yeah, I was going to say, I feel like if we're the ones doing the installing,

I feel like we probably were the ones doing the removal of the previous regime or whoever it was. So JFK shows again, like, it's not that he's supporting communism. He's just like, yo, that's not our region. We don't need to fuck with that stuff. That's not directly affecting what's going on with our country. Like, we love democracy. Democracy is the greatest thing ever. But we can't keep putting our nose in other countries' businesses

because they're looking to go communist. I'm not a fan of communism myself. I feel like there's some tenants that make more sense than some of the shit that we do now. But when you talk about communism then, it was to an extreme. And it still is. It's an extreme form of government,

just like we're in an extreme capitalist government right now. There's somewhere nice in the middle that we need to live, but for some reason we just can't get that way or the other. But it's a threat to the CIA. I mean, he just shot down. He shit on the CIA's self-installed leader in Laos. Well, here's the thing, too. During this time, this is when J. Edgar Hoover is still in charge of the FBI,

and he's been in charge of the FBI for a long time. Hot minute, yeah. So that's, I mean, and go back, listen to the MK Ultra one. What other episode had Hoover in it? Cointel Pro. Cointel Pro. was more, oh yeah, it was. That's right. That was Hoover.

He's a reoccurring. Yeah, if you haven't listened to those episodes, go back and listen, and you're going to get a little bit of background on what Hoover is about. Bad guy. So Hoover is also in charge of the CIA, or sorry, FBI. And then at this point, the Bay of Pigs situation in 61, right? Yeah, April 17. April 17th.

So he is elected and we put him in January 20th. And by April 17th, what, that's 3.5th. months, he's already facing the Bay of Pigs invasion. Which, that's not like he gets in there January 20th and January 21st. He's like, okay, guys, I need a plan for invading. I need a plan for invading Cuba. It's like, this shit has already been in the works because the people that are actually going to be the ground forces in the Bay of Pigs are CIA trained rebel, anti-communist

or anti-Fidel Cubans. Yeah, this is something that he's also. If he's having this talkdown on communism to try to find diplomatic means, knocking out Castro is not something that he would want to do. No, and there had been several attempts to take out Fidel Castro through various means of assassination. Poisoning. Did they actually try to send a hit squad or something like that? Yeah, they got picked up on the beaches.

Like it was very quick. Yeah. Which I believe the Bay of Pigs was the same move. But what JFK didn't do was they asked him to authorize Erica. from the Air Force to be able to protect these rebel forces that they had trained to go in there and do it. JFK's like, fuck no, dude, I'm not doing that. He's like, this isn't even my plan.

Yeah, this is on you guys. If you guys can't make it happen, I'm not going to usher this long. I don't agree with it. So the Bay of Pig was a massive disaster, and it just blew up in the CIA's face. Well, and JFK still took heat for that, though. Yeah, he was in office at that time.

That's the big thing is when something happens and you're in office, the last thing on people's thoughts is who actually planned it. Whose call was it? Yeah, whose call was it? Because if it happened during your administration, you had to have the final call on it, regardless of how long it had been in play or anything like that,

or who actually came up with the initial plans. Well, not to mention, since this was a CIA plan, we weren't blasting it out to the airwaves that this was the CIA operation. And had it succeeded, we probably wouldn't have heard about it. No, no, yeah, probably never would have come to light, huh? It would have just been a nice, smooth, easy transition that the American people told, hey, guess what happened? Fidel actually retired. And, yeah, we got someone else in there.

One big thing that came out of the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion was a few months later. He actually passes an order that strips the CIA of all military or, like, clandestined operations and gives control to, it was the Joint Chiefs of Staff, right? Yeah, so he moved it into his cabinet. Which makes total sense, because why? Why would you want a very secretive organization fucking stuff up overseas? Mm-hmm. One that you obviously don't feel like you have a lot of control over, which is why he removed Dulles from essentially that position.

And another thing, too, with kind of the writing on the wall, there was a really strong belief. And I think that it was also based off the things that were said that in 64, when the election, his reelection came up, that one of his first actions after the re-election was going to be to forcibly retire Hoover. God, that would have been great. He could have saved us so much. MLK, I'm not good at math. MLK may still be alive?

Maybe. There's a chance, yeah? Possibly. Old, old, but maybe. So at this point, you have trying to remove somebody who had 30 plus years of doing whatever the fuck they wanted with the FBI, regardless. And then you take out the guy that's in charge of the other, government agency that does shady shit

and you've definitely made some enemies within the government. And he just, these are the people that are in the government too. This isn't, again, he's trying to get away from the war. So all the manufacturing jobs that come with... Didn't he start talking about getting me pulling out of Vietnam too? That was one of his first things coming in. He's like, I'm getting us out of Vietnam.

He was openly speaking about leaving Vietnam, which I'm sure probably would have come in his second term too just because it would be after the election. Yeah. But it's shit like that where he knew he, he saw the writing on the wall and I forgot who he talked to. I don't know why this escapes my mind. But I think it was somebody within his cabinet or something like that had been over in Vietnam for like a French war with Vietnam. Well, that's how it kind of started is Vietnam.

the way it started was there was like a French platoon or French army or something like that that was ambushed by Russian-backed Vietnamese or it might have even been Vietnamese and Russian troops

that did that and so that somehow brought America into it well they fucked up France they beat the living shit out of France so all these years before we entered Vietnam JFK was speaking to somebody and knew somebody who already basically

understood like this is what's going on over here. We're not going to be able to beat these people at their own game. This is zero sum. You're not going to win this. The Vietnamese are either going to grind you out or they're just going to all out whoop your ass. Because it's not like he was completely removed from this before becoming president. He was a senator. Yeah. So he was still within committees or hearing all this information because they were the ones that were essentially making the decisions whether to, you know, increase funding for the war to continue the war, to do all that kind of stuff. So it's not like he had been to war himself. Yes. And it's not like he didn't have backstory on all this kind of stuff.

Oh, he really understood what was going on. This is just kind of another thing that happened. Do you know it about Checkpoint Charlie? What is that? So Checkpoint Charlie was a checkpoint in Germany that was in the wall. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was an American diplomat that was coming across the wall, or I guess crossing the wall. Yeah.

To go to like the operas. the theater or some shit like that. And they stopped him, they searched him, they were going through his paperwork and all that kind of stuff and really giving him the once over. So he was on the Russian side? He was coming over to the Russian side.

Oh, okay. And there became kind of an issue. Well, I think it was the security on the American side is like, hey, we got an issue here. They came rolling in with tanks. And the Russian tanks came across on the same side.

and it was like 10 tanks that were paired up. And by the time that they had established that there was a situation, there was like 60 vehicles on each side with all their guns pointed at each other. They held on for 16 hours. It was just a standoff at a checkpoint. And I guess everybody that was in the cabinet back home in America was just screaming at JFK. Like, nuke them. Get them the fuck out of here. Kill all those motherfuckers.

nuke the whole entire area and then once you're done nuke Cuba. Like that was just their plan was just like instead of talking through it diplomatically, there's like nuke them. And JFK goes, no, we're not going to do that. He gets a hold on Nikita Khrushchev through some back channels. They talk about it. They come up with a plan to just relax and to not worry about searching the guy and to calm the standards. So cooler heads prevailed once again,

where instead of just going to all out nuclear, Holocaust, apocalypse style JFK really thought ahead and was like, no, we have to get along with these people. And I for an eye makes the whole world blind. We can't just keep fucking with this. So again, he's losing so much faith in the military types. He's losing so much faith in the CIA

because, again, the FBI, the only thing that Jay Edgar hated more than like progress and civil rights was communism. Well, then April 16th rolls around in 62. We get the Cuban Missile Crisis. We'll do its own episode and everything. October 16th, yeah. Yeah.

So in a nutshell, the Russians either had or were establishing nuclear launch capabilities and launch pads and missile sites in Cuba. And we found out about it during like a scouting mission or something like that. One of the surveillance planes, I can't remember which one was available at that time, like the U2, not the, was it the U2? U2 was World War II, I think. U2, U2 Swip Plains? I can't remember. I don't think we had spike planes

in World War II yet. Or we had, ish, but like, anyway, we were able to discover these sites and basically established a naval blockade around Cuba. There was a ship coming in to Cuba from Russia that was suspected to have nuclear missiles

on it, or nuclear warheads on it. And basically got to the point where the boat wasn't stopping, as it got closer to our blockade. Closest that they considered that we've ever gotten to nuclear war or for it to happening that way. I think it was really fucking close. Oh, yeah.

What ended up happening is again, Kennedy and Cruceft got on the phone. Kennedy talked to him. They decided it wasn't going to be worth destroying humanity for this shit. And an agreement was made to remove like the missiles, any existing missiles or missile sites from Cuba in exchange for the United States taking missiles out of a country. Southern Turkey and Italy. Was it Turkey in Italy that were then in a position? Here's the whole point.

We had basically missiles in positions that were as close to Russia or their territories as they would have had in Cuba. Yeah. I'm not trying to stand up for the communists. I don't think what was going on in Cuba was right. But here's a very large butt. we had something that was a nuclear payload that was in Turkey right next to Russia. So it's not like they were building them in Cuba unprovocated.

There was a thought that, well, if you're close to me, I want to be close to you with these. So this wasn't like, communism wasn't trying to sneak over into Cuba to get us. Here's the whole point too. It could have simply been a plan by Nikita Khrushchev to be like, this is how we're going to get these missiles away from our borders is, you know, we're going to get them in a new position

where they need to be able to negotiate and give us a little bit of something and that could have been the whole crux of the Cuban missile crisis. I don't, I can't blame the communists for doing that. If it's good for me, it's good for you. I can't blame a country for doing that. No. I'm not even going to blame on this communism or anything. That was just what a country would do in that scenario.

End result is fucking Kennedy's a rock star. He basically just negotiated with Russia to prevent nuclear war. war and pulled this back from the brink. So his approval rating at that point, he was already beloved. But at that point, yeah, like I said, it just elevated him to a completely other level. He was basically playing chess while every other president before that in the Cold War was playing and he did it against the advice of a lot of like senior cabinet people. He stuck to his guns.

And so, you know, prior to just in the three years essentially that he's serving as president, a lot of shit going on that he has to really step up for and he does it in a good way. And that's just the military side of things and the diplomatic side of things. He's passing civil rights legislation. He's doing just everything for the country. He was building up

unions, just a real go-getter and doing all that, but he's just doing it all at the same time, which makes everything so much more incredible. And one of the other promises that he had made kind of before his end was that once he,

one re-election, the CIA funding was going to be cut year by year drastically. That or he was just going to break the fucker up. Yeah. A whole bunch of like different departments where they all couldn't consolidate power and do the shit they were doing. Which is a big scary move for an organization

that has just basically run rough shot and done whatever they wanted to. His other thing was that he made it clear like we said earlier to just abandon Vietnam to get out of there to pull everybody out. And I think it was like from the day he was assassinated on during the Vietnam War

had he pulled everybody out, it would have saved like 150,000 people from being wounded and like tens of thousands of people from being killed in Vietnam. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. So just massive amounts, massive numbers. So going off of those two things, you know, or the few interactions that he, the high-pressure ones that he had with Russia,

including Vietnam, because there were a presence there, they were the ones that were backing the Vietnamese. Yeah. Out of the prevailing conspiracy theories, if you're naming like four or five of them, that it was a conspiracy backed by Russian support or Russian agents or something like that or communism, where would you rate that one on a scale from one to 10,

one being laced likely to 10 being, you know, confirmed? Communism's like a two. And I say it's a two because... So are you grouping in both Russia and potential, uh, anti-Fidel Castro, Cuban exile. No, because then that wouldn't have been pro-cause. That wouldn't have been pro-communism.

Pro-Fidel? No, no, no, because if no, no, well, I guess the only thing you can say about the pro-fidel people is because they had attempted on his life several times and everything like that. But at that point, too, wasn't there some type of agreement that Fidel Castro was like, stop trying to fucking kill me and everything?

And then Kennedy was like, I'll just leave you alone. I don't know if they had that conversation, but I know that it wasn't, we didn't know about the other assassination attempts on Fidelia yet. And I would say as far as a Russia-backed plan, it's got to be a two or even less. Okay, what was the justification you provided me? Just because Khrushchev was never in a better position.

When they were bargaining and going back and forth and being diplomatic about things, they were trying to find a common good to end the Cold War. They were accomplishing stuff. Yeah. And it would have nothing but advantageous for him for America to pull out of Vietnam. If he's pulling out of Vietnam and he's not backing the LOW CIA installed anti-communist leader anymore,

he's not necessarily allowing it to flourish, but he's just like, you guys do your own thing, we'll do our own thing, we can figure out how to coexist. Which ultimately I think made Khrushchev look really, really good in his people's eyes because he was kind of getting things done too. He was able to pull those nuclear weapons just as much as Kennedy did it out of Cuba. He was able to pull those nuclear weapons back from Turkey and from Italy. So he was looking good on the other side too.

Okay, so then that takes out the possibility for likelihood of Oswald being an agent acting on behalf of Cuba, Russia, or for pro-communism. I think so, yeah. Castro, I would say, has a little bit better chance at being legit. You think in four? Yeah, probably I would say four. and purely out of the fact that there had been attempted assassinations on him

so how do you fight back from that? Try to knock their guy out just like they tried to knock you guy out. So there's a little bit of understanding what he would have premeditation for. So if there's any more that you want to discuss tell me, so I'm going to list three of the

stronger prevailing theories on what could have been the conspiracies. Oswald acted alone and killed Kennedy because of his opposition to communism. That's kind of the one that's considered true, but don't they also say in the Warren report that they didn't find motive or something like that wasn't one of...

It was just him being a crazy person and not job. Yeah, there was no defining motive. There was no defining motive. Okay. Second one, government plot. Essentially a conspiracy to kill Kennedy by people within the government, not the government as a whole,

all being on the same page, but certain actors... The U.S. government. Yes, certain actors within the United States government or agencies that determined that he was a threat to essentially what they had planned and needed to be removed. That one's a 10 for me, by the way. Okay.

And then I'll go with third being, it was a mob, a mafia-backed and planned hit job because previously Kennedy, when he won his election in 60. He actually won Chicago and by that he won Illinois, which wasn't planned to go his way or something like that. That was like almost one of the swing states or the deciding states. And part of that was accomplished because he had the backing of the Chicago mob and the union

and team service and those, you know, organizations. He won the popular by, I believe it was 0.2%. Yes. So very razor thin margin. And because of and then as soon as he gets into office, him and his brother literally just start cracking down on organized crime and making it much more difficult for people to operate. So one of the theories is that because of that, the mob didn't like where things were going, didn't feel like he was living up to his end of the bargain with them helping him win the presidency and essentially order to hit on him. I don't hate it as much as I should. What do you think, six? I would probably have to say five Because I don't think it's more likely than not

And I think after you go past a five That's kind of what it could be Okay But I just feel like there would be something there It's just the whole ass into the operation Like the logistics of everything Coming together that way Doesn't seem like a mob even as organized

As the Chicago mobs were It just there's too much work Too many logistics What do you think of The theory that Lindy B. Johnson was in on it. I mean, Linden had more,

it wasn't just like political aspirations of what JFK had, but there was like a healthy rivalry between the two. And even though they ran together, they were running mates, Lyndon was his, was JFK's vice president and all that good stuff. There was like a healthy competition

between them. Both of them were legendary womanizers. And there was... LBJ had a name for his dick. Jumbo. Jumbo, that's right. Jumbo. Jumbo. Yeah, both of them, both of them were known to be quite the Flanders.

And there were situations during Johnson's presidency when they would, I don't know specifically what it was about. Find him sticking Jumbo where you shouldn't. Yeah, there was plenty of that. But there would be, they'd be going through briefings.

They'd be like, Mr. President, Mr. Kennedy probably would have done this. And he goes, fuck that guy. I fucked more women in that guy's lie, or in my, I think he said he'd fuck more women in his 20s than JFK had in his

entire life. So like there was a personal animus and everything else between him. Not to mention Lyndon B. Johnson was more of a wartime president. I do believe that he wanted to stay in Vietnam just based on the fact that he stayed in Vietnam. Maybe a little bit more controllable. Ready to play ball. Yeah. One thing that I heard again, this is just these are a lot of this stuff also is witness accounts providing information when they were questioned regarding this entire thing. Because believe me, during the Warren Commission, everybody was fucking. questioned. Anybody that could have had any type of benefit to gain by this. So I, it was Kennedy's personal assistant at some point during his presidency when it got time to discuss re-election,

everything. She like remembered him sitting in the office and he was talking to her and he kind of laid out his dream for what he wanted to do as far as an alter, like to alter the way the Congress has set up and things like that. He wanted to remove like seniority to where everybody truly had equal say in, you didn't have these entrenched people that had been there for a long time. He had some pretty, not radical ideas, but he had some ideas of how it can be improved and how people would just have more of a say.

People wouldn't feel disenfranchised. And he said in order to enact these changes, he would need someone as his vice president that had a similar outlook and similar goals. And she was asking him about like, well, who would that be? And he's like, it's not going to be Johnson. And so there was kind of a feeling in the air that he wouldn't be seeking re-election with Johnson as his running mate.

So Johnson could have been out of a job within a year or whatnot after, you know, essentially after the assassination took place. And not to mention a very, very rare move. There's not been a lot of times in history where a president was seeking reelection and changed his VP. Yeah, exactly. And on Johnson's side, I don't know if he really felt that. I mean, I'm sure if you're working closely with someone for, you know, so many years, you can probably tell if that person is a big fan of you or not or anything or is going to want you to stick in the job.

Yeah, you know, if you're boys or not boys or people. Yeah, something about, like, there was something about, so Johnson had like a mistress or a girlfriend, and apparently she wrote a book or some shit, and he had told her something about, like, wait until next week or something like that before the assassination. But again, that could be someone just trying to go and collect a paycheck. So I'm not going to take a lot of credence off that.

Did LBJ have something to do with it? I'm not really convinced, but I don't believe he knew about it or anything like that, but I don't think he was really that broken up that it happened. I think... No, no. He was going to stay president. Yeah, he was, here's the deal, is he was going to be president regardless, because he was going to be in that role.

But, yeah, I don't think he had anything to do with, like, the planning of it. Well, I also think he didn't have a ton of it. of incentive maybe to try to find out the information about it. I think he really just created the Warren Commission because the public needed it. Yeah, and maybe he did know the plan. Maybe if he had stayed a distance away and just kind of had peripheral knowledge of it, depending on who knew or where he gained that knowledge from, it's not like that was going to show up in the Warren Commission.

As long as he wasn't the figurehead of it, it really wasn't going to touch him. So it was kind of a. There was no reason not to do it. What do you say three or four on that one, maybe? There's motive, but I don't know if there's enough benefit to be gained if it was somehow tied back. No, to me, he seems more, I'm sure he played it up on the screen, but he was probably pretty apathetic to the whole death. Yeah.

So, which one do you want to talk about first? Of those? Yeah. Or do you have any? I was going to say, didn't we just kind of talk about them? Well, no, I mean, we need to go through and actually. go through the details of why they believed it could have been,

you know, the government hit, why it could have been the mob. Like how things would have actually unfolded, how it ties back into Oswald. Because that's the whole big thing is Oswald was there. They had his, I can't remember, I'm trying to remember

if they had his fingerprints on the weapon. Yeah, they were all over the weapon. Okay. There's a couple details about Oswald that, I want to go over that we'll tie back into essentially what they believe could have been his participation in it and his role. Was he the mastermind? Was he a player or was he a patsy?

So I got some information on Lee Harvey just to shoot through real quick. Just going to give you some background. So Lee Harvey, he joined the Marines in 56 when he was 17 years old, didn't have a real stable home life. I think his brother had to sign. Yeah. His dad died two months before he was born. That's right. And not only after that, his mom was so poor when they were kids.

I think he was like two or three. I didn't even know this was possible. She just tossed him in an orphanage for a couple years. Really? Yeah. Then got remarried, then brought, um, it just got them back out of the orphanage. It was like she fucking pawned them to a pawn shop and then just went and picked them back up and brought them home. Um, I believe that they were living in New Orleans at the time.

It ended up not working out with the new guy that she had remarried. So they had moved to Dowell. So as a child, he had like prior knowledge. And he kind of traveled in his life back and forth between Dallas and New Orleans as far as living there. So let's do this. Since we're talking about Lee Harvey Oswald, let's just go into essentially why the warrant commission could have supported or come to the conclusion or sold their conclusion that he was the lone mastermind. So by us talking about Oswald, I think that'll cover that one. Yeah.

So join the Marines at age 17. He becomes an aircraft control specialist. and he stationed outside Tokyo. So I know I gave you those numbers before. In his shooting skills, he scored a 212, which was slightly above requirements for a sharpshooter. And then three years later, he scores a 191 still marksman grade. So in 59, he goes to the Soviet Union.

Now, you had mentioned before he got discharged out of the military because he had shot himself in the elbow with a 22. Yeah, it was a 22 handgun. That was kind of the beginnings of it. While he was actually, after that had happened. He got put onto reserve service, right? Yeah, he got court-martialed and put onto reserves. Then he got shit-faced on the base and went up and told all the people that court-martialed him to fuck themselves,

which then got him court-martialed again. And then later on after that, I think it was shortly after he said that his mom had a terminal illness and that he had to leave to take care of her because he was the only one to do it. So initially he was discharged from the army is like a medical issue or like a bereavement kind of deal. So it wasn't a less than stellar, what would you call it? Military career. Discharge? Yeah. Not maybe not a dishonorable, but not a not, maybe just some type of middle of road. Yeah. We're not going to put a title on or something. So in October 59, he actually goes to the Soviet Union. And he has a week-long visa at that time. He goes

by way of like he travels to like the UK, then goes somewhere else and then has to travel into the Soviet Union gets this week-long visa. He actually wanted to become a Russian citizen and they denied him. Maybe. Well, this is just what I'm going off of what they state in the war. This is what the Warren Commission states. So this is why

they're trying to sell it this way. So he's denied becoming a Russian citizen. So on the day he was set to be deported, he actually cut his wrists. And that delayed his deportation. at some point during this kind of delay and everything, he offered information regarding like Marine Court procedures or something that he could provide them as far as like aircraft capabilities

or something like that. Part of his time being the air specialist or whatever you're talking about, he achieved a high enough ranked where he was allowed in with some of the top secret information that they had had. Their version of top secret, not like in relation to his job. Yes, it was privileged information for what he was doing. So he offers basically that information to the Soviets in exchange for citizenship. Basically, Russia gives him like a government-paid apartment.

I don't think they give him citizenship, but they kind of are looking to maybe like see what he knows. And they give him some financial assistance. He develops a relationship between 60 and 61 with a woman named Ella. He proposed and she was like, nah, I'm good. And then later in 61, he marries this woman named Marina and they have a, kid like a month they get pregnant like a month after they get married and they have a kid in 62 he had to shut that first

bitch up so in June 62 the U.S. Embassy he goes he kind of gets disillusioned with Russia and everything like that probably because he's living in like an industrial block it's not like a fancy apartment they give him like a workers apartment and he goes to the U.S. Embassy

and they give him a repatriation loan of like 435 bucks basically here's some money to get back to the fucking states well and prior to him leaving, he tried to renounce his U.S. citizenship. That's right. He never got around to it, though, right? In the process of it, he never

actually filed the paperwork, and the U.S. was like, whatever, just let him go. So when he came back, he was still a United States citizen. Then he brought his wife and kid. Also, yeah, also filled out the paperwork for his wife to bring her over as, like, a married spouse, and do

all that, make her a naturalized citizen. Never got around to turning that paper in, but somehow she got accepted to. Hmm. Weird. Yeah. Like someone helped push it through. So in skipping forward, so I think, do they move to Dallas?

Um, they were outside of Dallas. I want to say it was New Orleans because he ends up, they basically find out that while he's over there, that the military finds out that he's over in Russia. And they're like, well, that's not taking care of your mother. And that's why we discharged you. Unless she was over in Russia too and you were over taking care of her. That definitely wasn't that. So he ended up getting his discharge down or downgraded to a less than honorable.

And that basically fucks him for forever. Because any job that he tries to go get after, they always will see that on your resume or your background check that you were in the military and then received a less than honorable discharge. So he's having a hard time finding a job. Do you think it sounds far fetch to think that if someone discovers that a person in the United States military is trying to go to Russia to gain Russian citizenship, that that information during this time frame,

Red Scare, Cold War, wouldn't find its way to the CIA or FBI. Immediately. I would assume that would be where it starts. Okay. So I know that once they move back, they move to Dallas, then he moves his family with him to like Norlands or something, but then he moves back to Dallas at some point.

I know, okay, so he gets, oh, that's right. So in March 63, that's when he actually acquires the man-licker Carcarno rifle second-hand and he uses the alias A. Heidel. Did you not know this? Is it supposed to ring a... No, that's just the alias he used.

He bought it for $19.95, and that's when he also bought the 38th Smith & Wesson Revolver. So at this point... Didn't they match the gun up because his wife took pictures of him posing with his new guns? I don't think that's how they matched it up. I know that it had been in the...

We'll get to that. I'll actually get to that point. So, yeah, why are you using... needing to use an alias to acquire a gun unless something's up? So... And why was that an option? How could you do that? He got it, like, out of the paper, like out of the fucking newspaper.

Oh, so it was like a private sale? Yeah. I don't think he... It was secondhand. So he got it from somebody else, I'm guessing, someone coming back from World War II or like a veteran or something like that. So April 10th and 63, this is... They didn't tie this essentially until after like the Warren Commission, everything.

So this is something that wasn't known up until after the Warren Commission or during the Warren Commission. So on April 10th and 63, there was this general, a retired general that was like staunchly like super anti-communist. And he lived in Dallas. His name was Edwin Walker. And on April 10th in 63, someone tried to kill him. Basically took a shot at him from outside of his. second story window. The shot hit the,

I think they said like the window sill or something like that. It missed his head by about an inch. But hitting off the window sill and then going through the glass caused some fragmentation, not of the bullet, but like of the glass shards

and possibly some wood. So after this guy gets shot at, being former military, he grabs a pistol and goes out and doesn't see anything. It wounds him a little bit. He's like bleeding from his arm something like that, but it ends up not leading to, you know, his death or anything.

Would you say a closer shot than the shot that killed Kennedy? It was, okay, so it was 9 p.m. Walker's in his second-story window sitting at his desk, 120 feet away. So half the distance, five stories lower. Yes, and they said that his head was perfectly framed in this window. and the shooter at this point come to find out or they put it on Oswald was like behind a picket fence

so was able to arrest the gun like on the pickup fence so like not much cleaner of a shot that you can have so Oswald's not even tied to this or anything like that they have a lack of evidence when the guy went out there there was no one to be found how they ended up tying also I'm doing quotes tying Oswald to it is they determined due to ballistics that it was fired from a manlicar carcano. And so they end up linking

that during the Warren report, basically to build the story about like, hey, look, this guy's done this before. He's tried. So, oh, I'm trying to figure out where I'm out. Sorry. So in May, so that was April. May, Oswald writes to the pro Fidel Castro fair play for

Cuba Committee. The Pfeffer Kekhead, whatever. He's requesting permission to start a branch. they're in New York he wants to start a branch in New Orleans he's like I'll get office space

and everything like that I'll run it down here they're like um no we don't think you should do that and he's like fucking I'm doing it anyway so he makes 500 applications 300 membership cards and does over a thousand leaflets that the gist of it says hands off Cuba

so he's seen by people and I think there might even be like a picture that they were able to find at some point or another of him handing out like pro-Cuba, pro-communist stuff like in New Orleans. So again, that's just tying connectivity to

his disgruntleness and his vendetta against the anti-communist Kennedy. And this is where I don't necessarily fault the war on commission as much besides like the dullest thing

and a lot of the other weird things. So try to picture it this way. your mind has been erased from everything that you ever knew about the JFK assassination. No conspiracies, no anything else. And you hear this story, it does sound like a guy that's a very radicalized communist or extremist. To the point to where he would be going out and passing out leaflets and flyers and applications for a pro-cuba. Do you know how many times during this entire research process, I've thought to myself, fuck, maybe it was just Oswald.

Yeah. And I look at this kind of stuff when I'm, especially it was during time frames when they're discussing just this theory. So they're giving all this evidence. I'm like, fuck, yeah, it does just sound like Oswald. Here's the thing. If it weren't for the physics of stuff that happened and locations and like actual

physical evidence that doesn't match up, if you were to just be like, was it this guy? Was it this? Or was it this? I'd be like, it's the guy that has a fucking problem. It's the one who had his fingerprints all over the gun. So here's the big thing they always go, sorry, they always go back to.

September 27th, 63, he arrives in Mexico City. Oswald goes to Mexico City. He requests a transit visa to go to the Cuban consulate. And basically, he goes to the Cuban embassy

and the Russian embassy. And he basically says he wants to visit Cuba on the way back to Russia. And the way they knew that he did this was at some point, I think, during his trying to start a branch of the pro-fidel place in New Orleans

handing out leaflets, he got himself on a watch list, and so the fucking, either CIA or FBI is watching him. So they also... Probably when he came back and repatriated from Russia. Exactly. They would have wanted to keep an eye on him like that. For could be different reasons.

Now, they have people watching or they say they have people watching the Cuban embassy and the Russian embassy, so they are taking pictures constantly of people going in there. And lo and behold, guess who ends up going in there and they're able to find out it's Oswald goes to visit these places. It all ties up very neatly. It really does. So October 16th, Oswald is hired at the Texas Book Depository. five weeks before Kennedy's assassination

it's had to have been a happy accident he wouldn't have known at that point that that was that the trip was going to happen the trip was planned yeah and everything they knew that these were the dates I'm still trying to play this side of it

oh gotcha yeah yeah yeah of course was a coincidence that a guy that had a big vendetta against this he must have just been like oh my god like on the 19 three days, no sorry, not four days before, the actual motorcade and everything went through, that's when they made it publicly available and published the route in like the Dallas Herald or something like that. So it was four days before. So it's not like there was a lot of forewarning. So I mean, fuck, Oswald had to have been like, lucky me, how is this happening?

He's driving right by my office? Yeah. And I'm in a tall building and I just happened to have this rifle and I've already tried to kill an anti-communist general. I missed the first time. I'm not missing the second time. So that's the details. And then the rest of it we already discussed were essentially on that day he goes to work. He transported, he couldn't drive so he had to have, I don't think it was truly. I think it was another coworker. He had, he had him take him home to get something. And when he went home, that's when he picked up the rifle. It might not have been that day. It might have been the day before. I can't remember.

In the paper bag. Yes. And when he was like, what is that? Because it didn't, it wasn't a rifle that broke down. So you're talking about maybe a three and a half, maybe four foot, uh, maybe like three feet, four feet rifle. It was a pretty short like shorter barrel on it. But he wraps it in like a paper bag and he's like, what is that? He's like, ah, it's curtain rods. And the guy's like, okay. So he ends up, that's how he ends up getting the weapon to, to that. But.

But yeah, he had to have just been like, what are the odds that the president's going to be literally driving right under this window? And I happen to have a high-powered rifle. Let's just tear this fucking thing apart. Yeah. Just sort of a self-admit here. I really kind of focused just everything that I had on the government. I feel like I may have gone too deep on the connections because they just kind of kept falling into my lap doing research. And once you just repeatedly see something over and over and over again,

there's just no real disconnection for me that I can at this point. Okay. There's just too much to it. I got, if you're good on taking over, like, the government for the most part and everything, I'll finish off Lee Harvey. Yeah. So a couple things, and these are, I don't think I heard a couple of these points, but I'm sure if I would have listened to enough podcast or watching enough documentaries,

and they would have brought up the fact. So the window that he's in, I feel like when he made that first right onto Houston Street before turning left onto Elm and Elm was where he got shot going down that hills the shot that he would have had on Houston Street would have been a straight on

shot as well at the front of Kennedy. Yeah. Hold on. The reason I'm saying this is he got to a point where he was literally straight down, slowing down, to make a turn right down below him. I'm not sure. To think about that, though, the angle to have to go straight down

to try to get it would be a lot tougher, I think. But leading up to that point, you're having to slow down before the turn. He wouldn't have to lean that far down. What I'm saying is he might not have been a smart guy. He went through a ton of jobs and everything like that and couldn't hold one down. Interestingly, though, interestingly that happened.

Interesting. My whole point is that, if why would you wait until you had a more limited amount of time? Because as soon as he got to that point, he didn't take that first shot until what, like 240 feet away. If he would have missed with that first one, they would have gunned it. I don't know what he could have done between the time getting them under the underpass. It's like his opportunity was at the tail end of his window of opportunity. If he really wanted by himself to kill Kennedy, he could have taken shots when he could have taken shots when he was first coming down that street, and then had they tried to gun it and go like on the route

or something like that and still turn down Elm, he would have been able to take shots as they're driving away too. So he, I feel like he really limited his opportunity by not being smart enough to take the shots at the most opportune time when the car started slowing down. And he was going down on Kennedy at a slower rate directly straight on from the way. I'm not even leaning out kind of, you know how he had to go to the angle out the window? Yeah. The only pushback that I would have against that, just kind of thinking about it,

maybe putting my own thought to it, is if he planned on getting away from it, he would need all the attention, or all the attention diverted a different direction. That's true. So by doing it at the end of the crowd, they would have had to have looked back and try to scan the whole area instead of just what was coming at it.

Yeah, trying to distance himself from the actual event and everything. I can. So that way you don't have everybody that's down on L, looking back towards that direction. I can see that. Here's another interesting thing. You know how they always check for a gun, what are they called gunpowder, gunshot residue?

GSR, yeah. GSM. So they were able to test and detect gunshot residue on his hands. That's right, but it wasn't on his face. Correct. Which, had you been down, your face is right next to the bolt. Yeah, as you're leaned overlooking in his scope.

Correct. And so it's like, well, what if you're, he washed his face and wiped it off his face you'd have to fucking wash your hands too to use your hands to wash your face so they're able to determine without doubt that he fired his revolver but he didn't have any gunshot

residue anywhere on his face where you would have to have it had you fired a shot and this is going to kind of lead into the government thing there were other places that you could take a shot that was very similar to his position and would have

the trajectory very closely. Yeah, I don't understand the grassy knoll, so you're going to have to really give me... No, no, no, I'm talking about there is, next to the Texas Book Depository. There's a... Oh, the same trajectory. Yeah, called the DALtex building. And if you were to be on, like, the fifth floor of the DELTex and, like, more on the left side of the building, you could almost look right past the corner of the book depository,

and almost mimic the exact trajectory of that window that Lee Harvey fired out of. And that's going to be getting into the Lee Harvey didn't take all the shots. I believe Lee Harvey took shots. Yeah, one. I would bet one. Yeah. If not two or anything like that. What I'm saying, though, is I think that he was plan A

and they had a plan B and C in case plan A didn't work out. Because here's the thing, too, if this is going to get sent to the government thing yeah I don't believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone

I believe maybe he thought he was acting alone he was the first act of the play yes I I don't think he was part he was part of something bigger he didn't know oh really okay well yeah no that's perfect

because you have that I believe that he was a full-blown federal agent. Okay, so we're going past the Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone theory and we're getting into the, and like you said, I think this is probably the one that people, if

they had to say, you know, if you don't believe, you know, if you're not in that 31% that believes the Warren Commission and you had to put your, you know, beans on which one it was going to be, I think most people are going to be like, I think some type of like government agencies or players had something to do with it. Yeah, they had

too. I just want to toss this one out before I really jump into why he was an agent. There's a conspiracy theory that the shot that actually exploded his head came from a secret service agent that was in the car behind him. And allegedly, after the first two shots had rung out, there was this guy named George Hickey that was, like I say, riding in the Secret Service car right behind. got up on the trunk lid or I guess at least stood up to try to cover fire for if the shots were coming from the front, which just like you were talking about, the front into the back. Was he trying to up on the top of the car?

He was one of the guys on the running boards and then he tried to get up onto the hood so he could stand in fire? It was where he would have been. Okay. So he was behind him, but when you were talking about the front into the back would lead you to believe that the shot came from the front. this was something that I had heard which we kind of differed on based on the going to get gross for a second

the bullet going into the back of the head but the explosion of the front of his head is what brought his head back and rocked his head back allegedly this was it's so weird how this shit happens but there were other Secret Service agents that were in that vehicle

that testified that Hickey stood up and that he had fired his weapon on accident as he was standing up. And the ammunition that would have been in his rifle would have been one that would have fragmented, which was the third bullet that hit him that fragmented inside of his skull. Now, we sort of skipped over it

during going through the hospital and then him being brought back to Washington, D.C. Yeah, the hospital, well, the place that they somehow convinced Jackie to let them go do the autopsy was Bethesda Naval Hospital. And the guy that did the autopsy was a pathologist.

There was like three of them and they were all pathologists and they're like we haven't like... The study of pathology is finding out how people died through means of like poisonings or blood ailments or anything like that. Not through physical acts. Yeah, like stuff like that but they were like yeah we haven't had to do an autopsy

for like a murder or something like this for a while. It's like you're like accidents happen in the Navy. Like you guys use weapons and anything like that. You've never, but there was supposed to be these three senior. Of course, even if they don't have the experience,

being that person, you're going to be like, no, no, no, I'm the senior. I should be the one to do that. I'm going to be the one that does the JFK autopsy.

I'll be famous forever. But, yeah, I mean, they, by the time they got the body to do the autopsy, first of all,

the neck wound had been completely destroyed for any type of use for ballistics or anything like that because they put the trachy on me in there. They could still see the entrance wound on the back though. And I mean, that one, like, fuck, it's so bad that you can see pictures of that on Google, that you can search and see that shit. But completely destroyed the evidence regarding the neck wound.

And what were the other determinations that they made? I mean, they bungled a lot of shit. His head, the fragments that had been blown off and the brain matter never actually made it back to Washington. That's right. They were supposed to be sent to, like, the National Archives. or something like that. And we, to this day, have no idea where they ended up. But they could tell through the autopsy,

like they could see the shards of the bullets. And that's how they knew that the third one that hit had exploded was they found matter inside of what was left of his brain. Yeah, but what was weird is the fragments also went missing before thorough testing could occur. Yeah. Another thing that just kind of goes missing, which you would think the most important autopsy

that's probably ever happened in American history, we just have shit that goes missing. Like shit that we just don't know about, which I get, there's things that the president for security and safety reasons, like there's shit that just should be secret. There's stuff that we shouldn't know. This, on the other hand, after seeing so many commissions

and just hearing the story, none of this should be private. All this should be known. So after those secret service agents had testified that Hickey stood up and accidentally discharged around, they all came back and denied that that was ever said. So they said it to the Warren Commission? They said it.

In a deposition, and then all those depositions they just went back on and said that it wasn't accurate. So could that have been the reason why the cover-up happened was to try to save a Secret Service agent? Obviously not, because JFK was dead before the shot hit his head. I remember hearing that, is that that was one of the reasons if they thought that might have been something that actually happened at the time before it had been recounted or recanted. Yeah. They said that, well, you never really hear about Hickey or anything like that because the first neck wound was already fatal. So it was, you know, it was pointless to go, you know, bring him into it and silly the name of the Secret Service and that kind of stuff. Yeah, had or had the shot not been fired, that wasn't a contributing factor to the death.

So another theory that it sounds like there's something there, there actually I think is something there, but it's not enough to be something. something. Yes. So, and here's the big thing. You mentioned it with like the movement of the head and everything like that and the ballistics. So my, my thought process on it and I can see yours too because like, here's the other thing to, if he got shot and it went through the back and came out the front like that and his head went, basically his head traveled in the exact position back where the bullet was coming from almost. So it almost retraced those lines. My position and I can see what you were saying was the force essentially of, this is going to be graphic of his fucking. skull exploding out the front would have forced his head back. I don't think I could see maybe an involuntary muscle spasm. Your brain just got fucking destroyed. It might throw something crazy into your body and have you react or contort in a rear way.

My point on it was from the movement of the head was I don't think that, not being, you know, your skull not being pressurized. It's like you blow up a balloon and you let go the thing. Yeah. And it forces it to go in the position the pressure is coming out of. Because your skull's in. not pressurized in that sense, I think what would happen is as the bullet entered your brain, it's still creating forward kinetic force. And like, imagine, I'm just holding up my phone.

My bullet, my finger's the bullet. If I'm pressing, yeah, if I pressed hard enough, I couldn't get through my phone, but if this was a piece of tissue, but the tissue is still going to move in the direction it's pushing because it has to put at least some force on it, especially to break a skull like that, it would still have to put force on it to get through there. And that force, I think, would be translated into the movement of the head. I don't fucking know what I'm talking about. No. I'm not a forensic technician or anything like that. But if we were, we wouldn't be doing this. We might still be. We might still be doing. We might have a lot more information and be able to go and share with this. So, but because that was also recanted, I, yeah, that one's going to

go, go low. So we already went through Magic Bullet. So just to start breaking into kind of how this could have been a a political job. 1975, we had something called the Church Committee and the Church Committee also went through and rehashed everything that the Warren Commission did. They found out that the Warren Commission investigation into the FBI and the CIA assassination plots, technically,

was fundamentally deficient and that the facts were held back by agencies to not be investigated. When they did, the Warren Commission, do you know who they used primarily to do the research and the detective and the investigations? Oh. The CIA and the FBI. Yeah. Interesting. How would that work out?

Why would you tell a whole story? They literally left the people that could have been a part of it, gathering the information that they were then get a report back to use for this report. Like... The century-long dickhead? Jay Edgar Hoover? Yeah. And then also you have the guy on the committee that just got fired from the CIA. that if they did get any information,

they could be, he'd be like, that's not important. Yeah. That's irrelevant. He was the person that they were probably looking to to be like, is the CIA information legitimate?

And if that guy's shaking his head, no, it's completely different. Well, like you just said, the church committee in 75, they found out, found out that they were actually holding back information and hiding information.

That they lied. Jay Edgar Hoover actually committed perjury on the stand because they asked him if they had any prior knowledge that would lead them to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald would be violent. He said no. Later on it comes out that there was a letter sent to the CIA or the FBI. It was the FBI.

Yeah. Because Hoover ended up with it. It was from Oswald that was threatening violence on the Dallas police force. That somehow conveniently just got... He was going to bomb the police department or kill a bunch of cops. He just got burned. They just burned the letter. But knowledge previous to seeing the letter

prior to J. Edgar testifying that got out. Not only that, but the Mexico City trip that they said they didn't really know anything about, they knew about it. They knew all about it. He was under investigation. They previously had never said that.

This is when it comes out that he was trying to obtain those documents to try to go back. The Warren Commission, did they, I know Hoover lied about it, but they, Did they find out about the visits to Mexico City?

They found out about him, but they didn't know that he was under surveillance. They just knew that he traveled down to Mexico City. So they were able to find out in another manner than through the channels of the FBI and the CIA that they knew. This was the second revelation that was over or that was brought to light during the church committee. Correct. But what I'm saying is the Warren Commission found that information out through their own means. It wasn't the FBI and the CIA being like, oh yeah, we were watching it. Yeah, no.

Well, they never found out about it. Okay. They didn't know about it. They just knew that they went to Mexico. Gotcha. So explain to me how Oswald fits into all this with these agency actors, these nefarious fiends. It's going to get weird. You're going to have to stay with me on this one.

A gentleman named David Ferry. He was Oswald's Civil Air Patrol commander when he was in the Marines. and the same day that the assassination happened, Fierry flew or Ferry flew from New Orleans up to, or over to Dallas, took off from the, he was still an Air Force or an Air Patrol commander or whatever, flew over there. The alleged thought process behind that was he was going to be the pickup and the getaway

for Oswald to escape. Fierry had deep CIA ties, and there was a guy that went into this, his name was Garrison. He was a, I think he was like a DA or some shit like that. In New Orleans, right? In Orleans, yeah. And so he starts to do this investigating.

Well, he finds about David Ferry, and after he realized that Ferry would have been a direct connection to Oswald and found out about it, he got a statement from him. and when he was headed over to interview him, four days after Ferry found out about the investigation, he died of natural causes.

He died of an aneurysm in his head, which seems oddly suspicious that a guy that's getting their fingers pointed at him just somehow dies a natural cause of an angerism or something like that. What would you have to be stressed about at that point? Speaking to other guys that were definitely stressed, just getting away from him, another man in New Orleans that was believed to have conspired in this whole deal was a guy named Clay Shaw and he was a businessman very wealthy

they believed that he had a connection to Oswald's handler that may or may not have been the pilot that went over and tried to pick him up he so he was just kind of the bank roll of it and he actually went and met so what was his I'm trying to think I heard something about shot was he what was his motive

at the end for bank rolling it then because he had something to I'm trying to remember what they said he had to gain he was I believe he was the one that was selling the arms to

the rebel forces okay so that may have been I know he had a financial stake in it somehow well and I think his was just the military industrial complex. He was making money off of making manufacturing and selling those weapons. There was a guy named Guy Bannister. He died of a heart attack. He was a former FBI agent,

and he actually did supply guns to Castro groups. Anti-Castro groups. Or anti-Castro groups. So he was willing to make money off of it. He was a former FBI agent, so he was somebody that would have come in and been able to testify about what was going on in the FBI. Or he had connections to create connectivity between, like, Hoover and whoever, you know, was trying to pull strings or kind of oversee the operation. And, again, while under kind of investigation through Garrison's studies, Guy Bannister just dies of a heart attack. Another just interesting, weird death.

to get back to Clay Shaw and this sort of ties in to Oswald Moore Clay Shaw may have met with a New Orleans lawyer and asked him to represent Oswald after the shooting took place

and this was such a big deal because the lawyer actually testified in front of a judge to the fact that he had a meeting with a guy, but it wasn't Guy Shaw. Guy Shaw had had a kind of like an assumed name around town.

And when he testified, he used the assumed name instead of Shaw. Okay. Well, then through the research of going back and trying to find out more about Shaw, they found out that he used multiple aliases around town. And one of the aliases he used was the one that the lawyer said. and after that, the lawyer somehow mysteriously recanted that testimony as well. Okay, so the lawyer gave one of Shaw's alias names

during testimony about someone wanting to have him represent Lee Harvey Oswald. Yep, okay. And so there's just another kind of wide connection there. A guy named, I have a very tough time with his last name, but this is kind of an interesting situation. His name is George de Mornishet. He was an actual true blue CIA agent. He had befriended Oswald in 1962.

And this sort of maybe leans a little bit more towards what you were talking about, like he was an unknowing participant in this game that the CIA may have played. But after Oswald had been fired in New Orleans, he was the one that actually told Oswald that he would have better prospects in Dallas for a job and actually secured him a job at a typewriter. I think it was like a typewriter factory in Dallas. So he, as a CIA agent, basically ushered Oswald on his way to Dallas. He was the reason that Oswald was in Dallas in 62.

So we're talking about a year's lead up. Yeah, but I'm wondering, I mean, I'm just trying to make the connection between, like, if it's that long ago, how long they knew about Kennedy possibly going on like a tour or doing this or if they were just, it's not to say that like there weren't like, I guess multiple seeds planted in major cities or something like that and just

Oswald just happened to have been like their Dallas guy. Yeah, well, this is kind of where things get a little fishy with him. March 29th in 1977, he died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He died three hours after

revealing that the CIA had sanctioned contact with Oswald. So after admitting that there was contact that was passed down from the higher-ups, from the CIA, that he was to have this contact with Oswald. And then all of a sudden, right after that, he stuck a gun, a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. I mean, that's fucking weird, man. And it's not like, this isn't like conspiracy like this guy's walking around at Boka right now or anything like that. Like, this is widely reported that this is how this guy went out.

and it was right after this occurred. Yeah. This last dude, Antonio, I think it's Vickena, maybe. He was an anti-Castro supporter that established something called Alpha-66, and it was the anti-Castro group, and they were kind of like rebels. He was shot in the head after he testified that a guy named David Atley-Fillips, met Oswald in a business lobby in downtown Dallas. He ended up surviving.

Who's David Atley, Phillips? He was an FBI agent. Okay. Or a CIA agent, sorry. So we have another contact. He was shot in the head. Luckily, he did survive and went on to say afterwards in interviews that the FBI had warned him multiple times

that he shouldn't be talking about this. So we have these guys. guys that are somehow slowly getting rubbed out. The guy like David Attlee Phillips and now are these guys as far as like CIA agents, have they actually been tied to like the CIA and they've confirmed that they were agents or? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

And this is all been admitted. These guys actually, I think Atley Phillips did come out and say, yes, I had contact with him. Dymour Schmidt or Dormor shit, whatever his name is. did say, yes, I knew Oswald. It was nothing more than we had just kind of run across each other and met and talked a little bit. So I guess like to figure out how this all fits together and everything. So it would make sense in that scenario.

And here's one of my big things for Oswald not acting alone is the fact that he gets a job at the book depository six weeks before this happens. that's just, that's too, like a guy that is going to do this without anyone else is prompting your help or anything like that, just happens to get a job at this place and it has, it's the perfect place you're going to take a shot from. Versus, this guy is giving, given some information or told where he needs to be and something has helped along. So he can be in this position at this certain time. Yeah. That's out of those two likelihoods, one being, oh, that's just a coincidence. Coincidence means low percentage of happening.

A higher percentage is that someone had information regarding where this route was going to be. Because it's, I understand that the route, like we talked about, it was released to the public on the 19th. That's not when the route was canvassed and walked and looked at and everything like that by advanced teams. There were meetings months in advance. Yes. And they had different ones that they could take and everything like that. But this one was the one that they announced and he was on it. So to be able to just luck yourself into that situation that the guy that has it in him and the idea to kill Kennedy

just happens to be in the perfect spot without any type of information leading up to that is just, it's too coincidental. There also is a guy that was in the Marines with Oswald. his name escapes me he's a I believe he's a judge in California and he basically said one of the things that they had pushed as far as

like the communist ties was that Oswald did a lot of communist like communist studies when he was in the Marines and would go and check out of Russians while he was actively in the Marines yeah and

so they were trying to say this kind of leads more towards his radicalization, the fact that he was doing that, he had been tied up in communism for most of his life as a young boy. A, why in the world would you be a communist and then join the Marines? That doesn't really make any sense. You'll see the world or something. Oh, he said it because it was an escape from his mother. Yeah, but if you're a communist, aren't you fundamentally against a capitalist army? If it's your only way out of poverty, man, and then you can leave at a certain point. Obviously, he wasn't meant for it because he try to find a way out.

But he earned some money. They said like when he was in the Marines, the way he ended up getting over to like Europe and everything was he had saved up like $1,500 or something like that. Well, this judge who I really have a hard time like discrediting a judge saying something like this so that he served with him. And he had never heard him, Oswald mentioned

like any pro-communist. talk or anything like that. He had never seen him in the library studying Russian. He was a part of the foreign language classes and he said that he never saw any sort of Russian being taken by

So are you saying that the backstory's been fabricated? The narrative was, but that also could be because there was another alleged secret CIA operation where they were taking members of the military and saying that they were like

communist defectors and then teaching them kind of a way to be radical. And then those people were defecting back to Russia as almost like a secret agent. So like they were trying to send moles in. Yes. They were then still loyal. Okay. Okay. So you're saying that he was essentially selected within the military to go ahead and fill

or be potentially one of these moles that they would send over there. There's a very odd possibility because like you went back to what you said about the repatriation loan that he got when he came back from Russia. I don't know why in the world A guy that left the Marines And then defected and said that he wanted to renounce a citizenship But then get a repatriation loan to come back That to me feels so odd

I like that me and you Have the same thought that it was Like government actors and everything But that the way that Oswald plays into it Is completely different Do you think that it was just like dumb luck along the way? No, I don't think it no no no no I don't think it was dumb luck.

I'll mean to let you finish off on yours and I'll get by. That's kind of where I am. There's just so many things that point to him having connections with. Not like you said, not the whole government, just a few actors within the CIA and maybe you could put 30 or 40 agents on this that are just top secret, nobody else knows about it, and keep that sort of core nucleus of those people small. Yeah.

Okay, so I'm just so I can wrap my head around this. and I want to get dick deep in this and then I want to lower myself all the way down. When they were able to track him going to Mexico City and trying to get into Cuba and then into Russia. So what would that be for?

What would the purpose of them sending essentially an agent to do that? It's like we talked about last night. They reported that he was down there at those embassies trying to get that. But a couple of the plots to assassinate Castro and some of the other CIA plots that were used to either assassinate or try to assassinate South American leaders all came out of Mexico. They had a CIA basically like a headquarters down there that they were calling all these shots for these Central and South American dictators to be killed.

So you think they were trying to send him in to assassinate? I think they were trying to send him down there to talk about the plan to come up and get Kennedy. I think he went down there for his debriefing to get shit figured out to be able to come back up. So instead of going down there to meet with... Communists. He was going down there to meet with like his handlers. Yes. Okay. Does that...

No, no, no, because this will tie into in another way what I think. Because we're not far off. You're of the opinion that Oswald was privy to the information. 100%. Mine is that Oswald was a Patsy and was being played the entire time. Not to take the responsibility off him. I'm just saying that I think that he was essentially used to take the fall. Yeah.

Because they could tie him up nice and meat. And ultimately, that's what I think, too. I think that they were using him. Like, he was a part of the whole ruse, but he just didn't know the end was the fact that they were going to hang him out to dry. Okay. I don't think that, I think Jack Ruby shooting him and killing him was the, like, the time where he's like,

oh, shit, they played me the entire time. Okay, you're going to have to explain how Ruby's tied into it then, too. Well, Ruby was, allegedly, he had been an informant in a prior life. They said that he had mob ties, which I know that he was a nightclub promoter in Dallas. He worked for fucking Al Capone. It wasn't Al Capone. It was, it started with an L. It wasn't Luciano.

No, in Chicago. Yeah, Lou Casey. He was a part of Lou Casey. I think he had been part. I don't know if it was under Al Capone. It might have been, but he wasn't like a second, like, person to, like, Like he was like a little, he might have been like a maid man or something like that, but then he went down and opened that. And they said that I think with him, the whole point about him possibly, he didn't have government ties.

But I think he was convinced essentially the people in the mob that did have government ties to the CIA. Because there was a connection between the fucking CIA and the Chicago mob. Like a well-known one for a while. He was an informant. And basically what they used them for was to norark on the other families. Yes. Like it wasn't, they were using the Amazon informant for things that they heard about the other crime families, not their own. So not the Lou Casey or the Capone's.

He was like saying, hey, I met up with these other guys. There's going to be this heist that they're taking care of tonight. They told us to back off, make sure to knock them out. The thing's kind of the on Ruby, kind of the prevailing theory, other than like he was so distraught over Kennedy and wanted to save Jackie, the heartbreak of going through trial and everything like that. Oh, that is what he said, huh? Yeah. He wanted to go ahead and be the hero. What the kind of prevailing theory is that whoever was connected or speaking to the CIA as part of this whole thing had basically used their mob connections and been like, is there anybody you think you could convince to do this and everything? And they're like, yeah, I think we have a guy and basically told him as like, do you think you're going to be like in prison for this? You think you're going to be in prison for the one that in all this distress, you know, you complete insanity, temporary. sanity you might do a couple years but you'll be a national hero and basically hyped him up to basically go in thinking that there wouldn't be severe repercussions for that and to go ahead and

take him out and that you know he might do a little bit of time but when he got out people the entire country would love him because he's the one that they got made man with the country that got the guy that got kennedy yeah yeah i i fully think that he was the end to the the beautiful little bow that they were going to put on it. I think probably when Oswald did get shot, he's like, oh shit, I knew this was coming. Like, they were going to double cross me at some point.

They just waited until the very last second, because I think if they would have hung him out to dry, and he would have actually gone to trial and seen like he was going away forever, and they were going to pin it all on him, I think he would have tried to flip immediately. And him saying that, I think, almost would have sounded less crazy than everything else that's come out of it. we cross so many different parts of our theories and then they go like this and then they separate again

okay so i i think that it was essentially a um government not government like is it that suggests the whole thing certain players like within certain agencies and everything that had this plan and it was probably kind of a combination of the fbi and hoover dulles might had something to do with it or just said like hey is there something you can do to take care of this I think the military industrial complex does certain players within that that pulling out of Vietnam and everything like that is going to hurt their bottom line. I think there were a lot of people that were set to lose money or power if Kennedy stayed in power. Well, and Kennedy had threatened, I think it was the steel companies with taking away their military contracts and sending them overseas unless they stopped the price gouging. and so that again is just another major threat to the bottom line of these companies which all are making hundreds of billions of dollars a year all right so i think that oswald didn't have any idea that he was actually a CIA operative i believe that he thought he had a network like of he was part of like a pro-community

pro-fidel Castro, whatever movement and everything like that. I think when he went to and I don't think the Russians had anything to do with it. I think what ended up happening is that Hoover and whoever was in charge of planning all this kind of stuff whoever wanted this to happen basically allowed him to come back from Russia

to see if they could maybe continue to use him to get into those situations. So I think when they brought him back, anybody that he met with, I think basically he had a handler that was in the CIA, but was essentially opposing as a person in like some type of movement. It's not like these weird type of operations, you know, people playing different, you know, within different governments and everything like that. They're not that far-fetched. We've seen what happens with, you know, Midnight Climax and M.K. Ultra and co-intel pro and everything. During Hoover's time,

I don't think there's anything really off the board if it's within his power to do. So I think with Oswald, when he ended up coming back into the country, he was already, you know, flagged. It's like the question you ask, like, why would they let this guy

give this guy a repatriation loan when he was basically trying to renounce his U.S. citizenship, gain Russian citizenship? Why would they allow him back in? Well, I think in a way, like, I'm not saying they saw him being this tool right when that happened, but I think they thought that they could use him.

Took a flyer on him. Yeah. And so anytime he's, you know, meeting or speaking to people that are in these, you know, and of course he's going to stand out like a sore thumb because they know that he's going down and trying to open this place in New Orleans. That's his pro Castro. So it's not like someone couldn't just approach him and be like, hey, I'd like to join. And then that person starts giving him a little information.

and introduces him to another person. And it's like, we're actually kind of underground. And when he went down to Mexico City, that was him going down. And I think, like you're saying, meeting with the CIA people down there, but them posing essentially as either Cuban or Russian or, you know, sorry, not Cuban or Russian, but even like communist, pro-communists.

and just basically had the debriefing inside of the embassy. Yeah, or I don't even know if he got in to the embassy or anything like that. Because they could have still taken pictures of him trying to get into the embassy, then revealed themselves and been like, hey, we're not in there. We need to meet over here. And taking him somewhere else to meet him. If they have a place there where they're able to photograph and watch the embassy, you think that's their only like safe house down there, a place that they can pull someone.

Well, and the other thing you do have to think, too, is we only know. what we know, which we could only know what they've let us know. And there could have been a whole another watch of watching him down there meet with their guys instead or that he didn't travel to another town outside to meet with them. Yeah. And here's the thing too is all they have to do is when they find out, you know, Kennedy's going to be in Dallas. This is one of the proposed travel routes. They could be, you know, put their pro-communist hat back on and go back out there and be like, Oswald, we need you. We just found out some information. We're going to try to use some of our poll to get you a job at this place.

We have word that you can know you could really help the cause and everything like that. Take out this anti-communist president, you know, help out a lot of people, and basically set him up in a position to do that to where he believed that although he had support and was acting alone in everything, that's why he couldn't give any information. Because like, I get what you're saying where they really, you know, he thought he might be able to get out of the whole Kennedy thing as far as killing Kennedy. He didn't believe that he was going to get a cop for that. But I think as soon as he killed that cop and that's what they brought him in for and he knew that they were going to be able to tie

that to him, I don't see why he would keep that information to himself about anything, even if he didn't believe that like he was part of like the pro-communist movement or anything like that or he might have very well thought that he still had their support. He just bungled the getaway. But he, that's the thing is the reason I think that he thought that he was still part of that. And it wasn't like him getting, he didn't feel like, because he did say something about like, I'm the Patsy or something like that. I don't think he meant that in the sense like the CIA set me up. I'm a CIA agent.

There was a point where one guy said right after he got shot, one of the cops next to him like went to go cover him while they're a wrestling Ruby and the gun from him. And he was like, do you have anything? he was still alive though he had he was you know dying but he was like do you have anything you need to say anything at all and he said he literally sat there for about 30 seconds to like 45 seconds

and was like looking like he was thinking then he just opens his eyes and he goes and then passed away I'm telling you right now if you're a government agent and you're basically looking at a situation where you just got shot you're dying or you know that you're gonna

you might be able to to get away with the little bit with the Kennedy thing if they could throw some stuff around you're not getting away with the cop he does killed so I don't think he knew you know here's the here's the other thing to tie in too with the multiple shooters

and everything I think they set him up in a position to where he would be the one where everything would point back to him I think he did go ahead and take a shot take a second shot I think he hit Kennedy but in that

the 1978 House Committee, they determined that there were essentially four shots that came from two separate locations. Now, three of them could have came from around the same location, and one of them could have came from the knoll where they actually detected one of the shots through like the acoustical studies or something like that. And I kind of mentioned this to you before, like looking at the driving route and the trajectory of the bullet, there are theories too that there was, a basically they say the first gunman was Lee Harvey Oswald in the Texas book depository. There was a backup one at the same trajectory or similar to trajectory across the street in the Daltex building and that building had seven floors so it could have been almost from the same height

and everything. And that one even had a straighter shot at the back of Kennedy going down this street. Yeah. A better shot than Oswald has. Then they say there was a third gunman and that was the gunman that was basically they say this shot came from the grassy knoll but there was actually a car park right up above the grassy knoll that flattened out and there was a white picket

fence that someone could actually be behind and set up behind that one was kind of right next to just a little bit off to the left of going under the underpass if you're facing toward Kennedy and that one had what would be the

trajectory when he was turning his head of the shot hitting him and his head going back into the left because it would have been coming from the front and to his right. Well, and I do think that the, it was the surgeons, I believe, that were working on him in Dallas had said that they truly believed that when they were working on him and trying to save his life, that the only way the trajectory going into his head would have been coming from the front. The actual medical professionals that worked on him all said that it was a shot coming from

the front. my only thought behind that would be do you think that Oswald would have been in so deep and still understanding that it was only like a few sympathizers within the CIA that were taking care of him like do you think he would have fired that first shot

because I truly I do believe he fired the first shot I think he may have first hit or first shot first shot I think he may have fired the second shot but I think that he definitely didn't fire the third shot. So when they found the gun and they found those casings, he would have had to have still been a part of it and smart enough and privy enough to have spent casings in his pocket to drop that if it wasn't his three shots, right? Well, here's kind of my thought on it. Or is that planted evidence, maybe? This is kind of my thought is you can get shell casings kind of everywhere

from a shooting range from anything like that. I think okay, so I think that there was if you're planning something you want to have some redundancy plans, I'm not even saying that there was someone behind him or anything. The only reason I'm saying that there had to be someone with along his

same trajectory if you're going to make this work is because let's say that there's no one back there behind Oswald and he misses and that shot has to occur from the grassy knoll. If Oswald misses all of his shots and there's nothing to suggest a shot came from the back that hit anybody, then what's your explanation for the shooter on the grassy knoll?

Because Oswald is up there behind. You can't blame him for, you can blame him for trying to kill the president, but then that's going to open it up and be like, there was definitely two shooters because Oswald didn't hit him. I think you have to have that person or whatever behind in that other building because if he finds that Oswald misses, he can still take that shot at that point,

make it look like Oswald. So what I think occurred, this is going to get so fucking tinfoil hatty. It's going to make sense, though, I think. It does in my mind. I think the, I think Oswald had the full metal jacket ammunition. I think the shooter behind them

had the full metal jacket ammunition to match Oswald's. I think when Oswald hit Kennedy with that second shot. I don't know if they would have given him a third or fourth or win that other sniper behind. Here's something to think about. The gun that Lee Harvey Oswald was able to hit the president with

was a World War II rifle. It had like a four-time scope on it. It wasn't super sophisticated. Apparently it was accurate enough to hit him once. At that point, though, you'd had Vietnam weapons development all the way since World War II. there were like much more advanced rifles and scopes at that point. It's not hard to believe that if Oswald can hit someone with that rifle from here,

then an actual like designated marksman like for the CIA like, of course they had those fucking people. It was like the Cold War. You have fucking people that are, we, we admitted to assassinating leaders like in other, you have people that can do that. It's not a far stretch to say, oh, what's another 50 feet or 50 yards? for someone like that with that same type of ammo. I think with the person on the grassy knoll or above the grassy knoll,

I think they had to have something like those rounds that could disperse and you couldn't track them back. Because then if with that wound had done something, they wouldn't be able to the shit, what's it called, the rifling? Yeah. And the way they're able to match it, wouldn't have matched with Oswald's rifle. It wouldn't have had the same... It's true.

The same rifling and everything and the same ballistics profile. So I think that person was using essentially the same ammunition that the fucking secret service was using, like you said, if that's what they're going to use as the exclusus. That's why we couldn't find that's why it fragmented so much. I think the person on the grassy knoll probably had the fragment ammunition to make sure that the job got finished.

Well, and potentially if it didn't just take one more, if it took five or six, I'm sure he could have been firing that and it still would have been untraceable. Well, that's the thing, too, is the shot from the grassy no, wasn't, you know, they were traveling still a little bit, but at that point the car wasn't, it was still only going to let. And that guy's also a professional, probably fucking assassin marksman as well. I think with as much as they would have built into it, and that almost makes me feel like hearing you saying that, reinforces it more in my head that he was in nuts deep with the CIA that way. Like, I feel like in order for them to have that many fail safes and that kind of an idea, because that's 100% entirely.

completely plausible thing that you just said and I agree with it wholly but to think that that had to have been the way that it was going to play out I feel like he would have had to have known that all that everything else was there. Really? Yeah. Just because if he was like being recruited

by them like hey man you're a great marksman we saw your work we really believed that you could do this. Okay hold on a second it's going to go a little deeper on that what if are you having a realization? Yeah a little bit It might go nowhere.

It might go somewhere. Here we go. He didn't have any gun residue on his face. Yeah. Okay. What if he didn't shoot? He just pulled the trigger? No, no, no.

What if he didn't shoot? That's why he didn't have gun. What if essentially he gets up there, he's in position, and let's say that he has second thoughts or he can't do it? Or he can't get on him or something like that. He's shaking too much or some shit. the person behind sees Kennedy's not getting shot

and takes the shot. The guy on the grassy knoll takes his shot. At that point, again, this is going off the gunshot residue and everything, so it's not like concrete stuff, but if he has it on his hands, it would make sense that he had it on his face from shooting the rifle, right?

What if he didn't fire? How did he get the GSR on his hands if he didn't fire? he used his revolver and shot the cop. That's why he had gunshot residue on his hands. Okay, yeah. If he doesn't fire, when they go to arrest him and everything like that, and he's like, I didn't, you know,

I didn't shoot the president or anything like that, if he knows about that operation, those other teams, everything is pointing to him. If he knew about those other teams and it came from saving himself and being like this was a setup, it was part of like, I didn't fire,

someone else fired. Yeah. Him not knowing about those other teams would have him being like, I didn't fire, but the president still got killed. Like, I'm the Patsy. Yeah. I got set up.

Yeah. So that's what makes me think that he thought he was working essentially for a group that wasn't affiliated essentially with like the government or anything like that. I feel like he got handled into working for some like what he felt was some like underground

communist movement in the United States or something like that. And then as soon as he didn't fire and he still sought Kennedy die and he was just like, like if you were in that scenario, just like try to picture yourself there and you go to do something and all of a sudden you don't do it, but it happens anyway. You're like, I got to get the fuck. Like how did this still happen? Like it's going to look like I did it. Yeah, which again, it all could be possible.

Either one of these things are just almost exactly as possible. I think these two things are much more likely to be possible, regardless of Oswald knew about it or not, than what actually him just being this lone gunman that happened to luck into the perfect job a month and a half beforehand to know the confidential route without having some type of backing or information coming into him. Yeah. And I go back to the deaths and it just his, his air control commander, the guy that was allegedly supposed to be flying over to pick him up that day, that guy finding out that he's being investigated and then just magically dies of an aneurysm four days later.

Oh, yeah. There is definitely some type of claim. And this, it works for both our theories too because let's say somehow that guy positioned himself to where Oswald thought he wasn't CIA and he was just. some type of, you know, leader in the communist movement or something like that that was asking for his help, it still works that way. He's like, I'll come pick you up. We'll make the escape and everything. And then we'll go somewhere else. So regardless if Oswald knew or not, it still works within him being essentially set up. Yeah. I think we both agree that he had to be set up. We just don't know if he was set up from the inside or the outside. Or if he knew it was a set. Well, he wouldn't have known it was a set up. He wouldn't have known it was a setup.

either or I'm just yeah so I think we agree that it was a setup he just didn't know through either full belief in the CIA or full belief in the the anti he didn't know I think he had misunderstandings about his role yeah and I think is the biggest thing and that goes to each each side of it not knowing knowing he still believed his role was the one to do this and when he found out it wasn't that it would have turned him like he said into a into a patsy it just is so far off from the original story and it just makes you wonder

how it got shaped that way but it doesn't make you wonder for long because the CIA and the FBI were the ones that were feeding them the information and one of them

or in conjunction was running the show like unfortunately for as great as Kennedy was there were more powerful people that wanted him out than wanted him to change the world and I think that it's a real

missed opportunity because just going through some of his accomplishments with civil rights and union building and all that kind of different stuff and ways that he wanted like you talked about to kind of reshape the way that American politics is done. We really could have benefited from

a lot of that nowadays. And the other thing too is like when we're talking about this kind of stuff, I know it sounds like the plot from a movie and everything when we're like it was the government and it was J Edgar Hoover. Like really look

before there was the public's ability to kind of monitor what was going on and have that oversight for certain... Like we still don't know what the fuck is going on

within certain government agencies like that's just the way it fucking is. Like there's shit going on around over the world that would fucking just shock the shit right out of you. And to say that someone who has had

unlimited unchecked power for 30 years is going to be okay with getting forcibly retired and taken out of that position and is not going to do everything they can to hold on to that power. To Hoover and to these people in power

that would have the ability to pull something like this off, these are literally the guys that are just moving pieces on a chessboard as far as the world goes for like assassinating leaders of countries and installing puppet governments, running operations to, you know, fucking brainwash people, like all this kind of shit. So to say that that person,

feels like they would have really any qualms about killing someone regardless if they're the president. They know they can get away, or they have a really good likelihood of getting away with it because they've gotten away with fucking everything else before. Well, and that's truly why I believe that King and JFK had the same killer. Because the similarities of Jamesville. Oh, the same. Yeah. The same puppet master.

Yeah, shit. But to think about it in just the way that James Earl Ray fired on MLK from a under a hotel window in a bush and then left his gun, just like Lee Harvey Oswald fired from the book depository and then left his gun. The fact that the three name thing is just an odd coincidence. Well, and then we're not even, we haven't even gotten into fucking Robert Kennedy and Sir Han, Sir Han. Yeah, another just very odd. Robert Kennedy, a guy that was cracking down, and he was playing ball with the FBI and the CIA to a certain extent, but he was also beholden to his brother and his brother was anti these things. Well, I mean, even after, well, I mean like when he ended up getting killed, because he was going to actually, I have strong belief that he would have ended up being president. And I think people that had kind of orchestrated, like I know Hoover, when did Hoover leave? Because it sure.

Hoover would have been like 30s, wouldn't he? Because during the Depression, the people that lived out in the parks, they called him Hoovervilles. Oh, Jay Edgar. Jay Edgar. Not Jesus Christ. I always get Herbert and Jay Edgar. Oh. I think he was 72, maybe.

Yeah, so I mean, was he 72? When he had to leave, when he died in office? Yeah. Oh, yeah, he died in office, huh? Yeah. Yep, 19772. God damn. Good poll.

So I'm not saying that it was Hoover, essentially, that actually, when did Robert Kennedy die? That was fucking like 69, wasn't it? I'm pretty sure. Oh, my God. Uh-oh. This isn't going to be like rumors. Yeah. We're opening a new can of worms as we speak, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm not getting into Robert F. Kennedy. That's going to be another episode. And besides, we've taken up enough your time and we're going to take up just a little bit more. But Robert F. Kennedy, 1968. Hoover's still in power. if you see someone that you just took out five years prior and you see someone that is coming up into a position where he could be in power. It's not like Hoover.

It's not like Hoover had a retirement date. He died in office. So he probably would have stayed in there even longer if he could have. And he was probably like, God damn, another one of you guys? That's what I'm saying. Another Kennedy is as soon as he saw him coming up and everything, I think he was like, well, fuck it. I got away with it the first time.

I even had an entire fucking commission that tried to figure this thing out I can easily, like I've learned what I need to not do that this time so I'll just make sure that it's some random guy walks up to him in the crowd. Sirhan Sirhan, he was a disillusioned oh God, I don't want to sound

non-racial sensitive, but I want to say he was Iranian. Something like that. Yeah, you can't go out communism twice in a row for assassination motivation. No. You got to mix it in there. Make it a little bit more believable.

But to have him, and it was in the, wasn't it in like the kitchen, the back kitchen of like a hotel or something like that? Los Angeles, I believe is where it happened. So it's, there, too much happened during that time frame to too many people who were too similar to make it seem like there wasn't some type of like overarching like villain in this. That was kind of planning things behind the scenes. it's like fucking Thanos for like the first 10 Avengers movies is you know he's fucking out there and you know he's in control of all this shit Puppet Master

That's what Hoover was as a puppet master That's exactly what he fucking was But yeah I mean There's a reason that this topic still draws so much interest Even you know Today and everything despite being removed from it for what 2020 this year is going to be what Holy shit are we

the 60th? Yeah, this year will be the 60th anniversary of it. Huh. These things just bummed me out so much because not that it, yes, that it happened, but also, like, when we start getting into this and I see the animation on your face and I can kind of feel me getting revved up to say something. And just to hear the utter insanity that you hear talking about a conspiracy theory, like when I, when I, when I, when I, When I hear people talk about recent conspiracy theories, it's just like, no, dude, that's fucking dumb. What do you say that? But then we get to these and I start to get fired up.

I'm like, God, am I that same person? This is much different than Bigfoot. Yeah. Like, there's so much, like, substantiated stuff that doesn't add up. Even just, like, government plots, though. Here's the other thing, too, is you can't say that there's no conspiracy to this at all because over three different, like, committees and commissions at different times have literally like reverse the things from the first one or said that that didn't happen that way.

And so like my, and I told you this earlier, my gut is to trust the ones that are able to take the evidence and have a more advanced or technological view over it. Just let the fucking the advancement in science do the work. Well, and that's what I forgot to mention earlier. We were talking about the U.S. Board of Assassinations or whatever. The House Committee on, yeah, assassination. Yeah. So their finding was that Kennedy likely died of a conspiracy. Yes.

So they don't even get close to telling you which one. No, but they actually say that it was a result of a conspiracy. Like we're past the lone actor stage and the only new information was that we got it from the FBI and the CIA. But now it's a conspiracy. It's like, oh, weird. Far enough removed that it's, you know, people are just like, I knew it and then they go back to do it because it's no longer affecting their lives. Well, it's out of the, out of the, the zeitgeist or whatever.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right, man. Yeah, that was weird. I hope you guys enjoyed the weird, too. We're not turning into a conspiracy podcast. I feel like we've, we've looked that way, but they're just fun to do. Yeah, we're just having some fun.

And this one also, it's not a conspiracy podcast, but at the same time, like, it's been admitted that it's, no, no, it's not. It's not a goddamn conspiracy podcast. because it's been admitted that there was a conspiracy. So it's not a theory. It's just the discussion of which conspiracy is like. All right. We're going to go with that.

Good. All right. Later, guys. Peace. All right, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for joining us for another episode. If you like what you heard, hit that subscribe and like button. Follow us. If you didn't like what you heard, still hit that anyway, because we'll probably cover something in the future that you do like.

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