Historically High - The Rise and Fall of the Incan Empire

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Cities in the Mountains, Rooms of Gold and Silver, and the fall of a civilization. Join us as we talk about the rise of the Incan Empire, its short but impactful reign, and its eventual fall. We'll find out how an Empire of Millions was conquered by a few hundred Spaniards. Support the show Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Inta? Oh, my king, thank you so much for seeing me. Ah, Mr. Pizarro. How were your travels? They were good. They were good. So, hey, a little thing. Need your permission.

I'm wanting to go to South America, and there's these people down there with a lot of gold, and just kind of need your thumbs up to, you know, go kick some ass down there. I'm going to send a lot of it back to you guys. Saw what happened with my cousin up against the Aztecs. You guys got pretty rich off of that. So what do you think?

Let's keep this on the down, though. Let's keep this way from the queen maybe. I don't think she's going to be real pumped about taking over a bunch of other people. So I'll get you set up. Your boats will be ready by morning. Go handle your stuff. As soon as you get all that taken care of, I'll send you off tomorrow.

Thank you, my king. You may go. Because there was a lot to this. So what about this do you think, like, surprise you the most about it? Or what was your favorite thing that you learned about this stuff? I just don't understand how these people are on the other side of the world from everybody else. And their shit ended up so similar. Like, they didn't have the Bible.

They didn't have stories and origin stories and all that stuff. but somehow they just figured it out and it sounds fairly similar. I mean, how crazy their story is of like where they came from and their creation story and then you look at like Adam and Eve, it's kind of similar. And obviously they didn't have the Bible. They didn't know those stories back then. So it's like their civilization or civilization was built on kind of a story that became their religion. And thank God we didn't do that as much.

I guess some people believe that, but it's just, there was so far away from everything else and had no knowledge, yet it turned out, I mean, they had pyramids like the Egyptians. How do you, where do you get that thought? I think how that ends up happening is because that's just like a structurally strong shape and that it's able to be built. I think that like... How do they know, though? Like, what are you building that for? I don't know, man. You see stuff in nature that takes that.

shape and then you kind of mimic it. So like I know an ant hill doesn't have like the four sides. Yeah. But from that perspective, if you're just looking at an ant hill from a like, like a silhouette, it has the shape of like a triangle. And so if they are catching that kind of stuff, that's kind of how they're going to be mimicking their construction, I think. Yeah, it's it's so weird in the world how of all the shapes that come about, the fact that a pyramid can be on two different continents without them ever running into each other. Like there was no blueprint and it kind of sounds like the... Inca's kind of cucked that Egyptians.

Like, their pyramids were bigger. No, the Egyptians were way bigger. One of the things said that the size of the stones that they were using. Oh, okay, the size of the, like the average size of stone. Yeah. was bigger for the Inkins, but one of the things that kind of blew my mind about it was, I think I was telling you this, like, you sometimes find out that your scope of world events in the timeline is kind of like really skewed. So I guess before we're really looking into it, if you were to tell me about like the Incan Empire and everything,

part of me would think, like you were talking about how like the Egyptian pyramids and everything, yeah, like those civilizations around the same time. because at the same time with the Inca they didn't even have the advancement in tools that like the Egyptians did they didn't even I think it was no wheels

no how do you do that how do you do things dude there's so much stuff about this that okay so again no wheels and it was no iron tools I think yeah so they would flint nap just take two rocks and beat them together and there were some that they could get sharp edges

with the cut But they were using like bones for needles when they were sewing different things together. It was just all primitive stuff. Well, and what threw me off about that is because of that, I thought that it would be a lot earlier in civilization. So this is going to sound weird, but I did go ahead and look this up to make sure it was correct. So worldwide during the Inc. Empire, which we'll get into, but it's crazy to me that it was only like 134 years for the main empire when it was all unified.

it was only 134 years that lasted Yeah it was It got going hot It burned fast And two people Of average elderly age Like those two people

Could have witnessed the rise and fall And they lived Fairly long for people back then That must have been Just exponentially bigger than what it was Well what's crazy is So during the time of the Inca Empire The Renaissance was going on

In Europe A world way and they had no idea. They had no idea that any of these people existed. Yeah, the printing press was developed. Leonardo da Vinci was born and died during the time frame of the Incan Empire. So if you're going with Maine Incan Empire 1438 to 1572, yeah, so Shakespeare lived and died during it.

Elizabeth, the first rule was ruling England, and it was the period of William Shakespeare. and Magellan sailed around the world in 1519. So all of that stuff that I associate with being more recent history, like the Renaissance and William Shakespeare and everything, the fact that this was still going on in a section of the world, like this civilization that was living like a civilization from a thousand years before. Well, and then you put it into perspective that 1492 Columbus,

found the Virgin Islands or wherever he landed. So this is all, I mean, there's civilizations going and it's happening and it's not really on the same continent. I guess they touch. But this is happening in South America to a point where their empire just, it grew to, I think it was like 2,800 miles, something like that. Just an incredibly ginormous, long empire. It was as big.

If you were to go ahead and take the landmass of just like Mexico, not Central America, but Mexico itself. And you kind of stretched it. It would stretch up the, what was the Pacific side of South America. But it was the size of the landmass of Texas. It was huge. Yeah, it was just ginormous. Especially for a civilization that couldn't even get around with roads or wheels.

Yeah, they had a hack. It wasn't a wheel, but they would take flat pieces of wood and then they would stick tree trunks underneath them, and they would roll them that way. But that's not an efficient way to do anything. Not to go long distances. No, and that's especially what they had to use. I watched a video to figure out how they get the huge stones in place.

Yeah. And that's what they did is they took the actual just trunks, the circular trunks, would lay the stone down on it, and then they would take other huge, like, poles. Yeah. And you would have to, like, stick them down. Can't believe you move. Yep, and move them forward at once.

And it was literally moving this stone up a ramp, but it was doing it about six, inches at a time and over the course of like three or four hours these people got it up well it's heavy as could be how many people can you actually like get hands on that to move that the way they had it set up you would have people standing next to the block taking up the length of the blocks you'd yeah you would have a layer or another row of people standing on the block they had longer poles so you were almost doubling up so you were lifting their weight and the rocks weight to get everything out that it would and everyone would shift the blocks forward or backward

depending on which way they were moving you were getting double the people and if he got smushed I mean that was probably fairly common we need a fill in next have a guy waiting to like throw new guys in it's also one of these things where the Incan

empire it wasn't all Inkins like that's one of the confusing things when people use the terminology like when they go you know the Egyptian empire, the Persian Empire, you just assume all of these people are of the ethnicity

of that place. Yeah. So much of it is it was their empire. They all ended up being the same way. But the tribes that they took over, I mean, it was, they gave them the the guy in Bolivia, or not in Bolivia, the guy in

Colombia that sold all the cocaine. Oh, uh, El Padreino. Why can't I think of his name? Why can I not think of this? Pablo Eskabler. Jesus. Yeah.

That's rough. I know. When he would take over different drug cartels or he would be trying to bribe city officials, he would always tell them it's either going to be lead or silver you get to choose. And that's what a lot of the tribes that got taken over, that was their message. You either can get axes thrown at you and spears thrown at you, or you can just come in. We'll pay you to take your stuff over.

We'll pull you into our system. We'll build a road through here. We'll make sure that in times of famine, you're going to be okay because we have enough food and resources. That was another thing, man. The way that they developed like... Free dry. Not only freeze drying, but it was like government assistance.

Yeah. That they would, you know, during times of food shorts, because everyone, the food that you didn't use that you grew, you would then give to them. They in turn would then keep it, and in times when it got scarce and you needed food, they would have then a store of food to share with the population. Yeah, everybody, they would build these storehouses along this road, which this road blows my mind. I don't understand how you do this back then because it's, you don't have a road to drive your horses down because A, you don't have horses and B, you don't have wheels.

So that's not going to happen. It's just a road that you walk along, that you have mile markers, but you have stones that would show you distances coming in and out of towns and villages and where storehouses are. It was highly advanced. What was the number for miles that you looked up on it?

I didn't know the distances between the two, but the road as a whole, when it was completed, stretched 3,100 miles. Five times. Times between Seattle and Miami was established roads that they had in their empire. And they didn't even have that much time. There were people that spent their whole lives. That is my biggest takeaway from this entire thing is what they did in the time.

And I know a lot of this, you know, when I'm saying that 134 years, this wasn't from the time that the, you know, people happened upon a spot and were like, we will be the Inca. And now all of it just took off. So this is the prime Incan empire. the established Incan Empire when it encompassed as much area or when they considered it to be the more well-known formed empire. Yeah. And the area that they were living in, to say it wasn't inhabitable. I mean, the civilization, the cradle of civilization that supposedly would, this is a weird thing about it because I say supposedly, but this is just kind of the general consensus of how it all happened, where the cradle of civilization happened.

where they grew out of. And the coastal basin is a desert. When you say cradle civilization, you mean for these people? Yeah, there's certain cradles of civilization all over the world, basically, where civilizations had sprung up

where groups of people have gotten together. They would build towns. They would start to work together. So Egypt is considered one of them. Egypt is considered one of them. There's one in Asia. There's one.

There's going to be one in like Europe. Yeah, there's something up higher in Europe. Okay. But the South American cradle of civilization was right around this place. It was right outside of the Andes Mountains, and the And these mountains are ginormous. And they're in a place where you get 70% of the world's Earth, or 70% of the world's volcanoes. They're in, they're part of the ring of fire that has all the different volcanoes. You get 90% of the world's earthquakes.

That was the other thing. that was so nuts about their construction. No tools outside of, I think it was just, I had this written down about what tools they used. Wood bone and rock, and that was basically it. Watching how they would shape the rocks, everything, they would just take what they consider it a harder rock. So like river, no, no, like river stone.

Yeah. Because they felt like it was, because it had been compressed and smooth by nature. Yeah. It probably got rid of the outer like impurities that a rock would like to shatter and like chip off. Yeah. So they would use these harder river stones and that's how they would cut the stones. And these things are like they're so precise that for the most part, these people didn't have mortar.

No? This wasn't like putting stone down, put mortar in there and because if the stone didn't fit perfectly, the mortar would fill it in and solid. They didn't even have mortar. and there are a lot of these stones that were fit together so precisely in certain construction that you can't even get like a knife blade. No, they were talking between the stones. You couldn't get pins through them. They were trapezoidal at some points.

They built them in a way to where they could withstand an earthquake, but they were so perfectly formed together. It would have had to have taken days to build a stone. Correct. So like, you know, the earthquake shaking, they were able to shift in a way that kept them together. one of the things I kind of read about that they thought might be a system of the top of the

stone being almost like concave like a bowl. Yeah. Then almost having like a male and a female end. The one on top of it sits into that. Concade and convex and they just sit inside of each other. And so yeah, they would sit in there. And so even if they had to shift a little bit together because of the lower you know, it would always reach the lowest point

of that basin. It would then settle and shift back into that. Even if that is the case, the fact that 90% of world earthquakes happen in this area and all of these ruins are still standing is insane. Yeah, everything

just gets shook up. So, you're dealing with the Andes Mountains, first off, on the east side it's all Amazon rainforest. The mountains are so tall that it blocks the weather systems. Oh, and it gets you the two completely corridor,

differentiating, like... So on one side, you have an Amazon rainforest the biggest rainforest in the world. And then on the west side, you have the driest place on Earth, which is the Atacama Desert, which you hear driest place on Earth, you think, well, it's got to be hot as shit. No, it's in the Southern Hemisphere, and it's closer down to Antarctica, it's kind of along Chile and along there. And it's the driest place on Earth. There's parts of that desert where since they've studied it, they've never found rainfall or anything.

I feel like deserts are always depicted as like just scorching hot. And so you always have this assumption until you figure out like nighttime in the desert. What makes it so hot during the day? Exposure, no cover, no nothing, makes it equally as like brutally cold at night. Oddly enough, the west side being the desert is where parts of the civilization started to spring up. Because they figured out there were, obviously the rain would hit on top of the mountain, and there would be rivers that would travel down to the Pacific Ocean. Yeah.

And that's where they started building these civilizations. But they got so good at the time to where there were the machet people, were the people that were living in the Otacama Desert. And they were so good at diverting the water from the rivers that they could send them to different areas that were fertile, that they could grow all sorts of different. I mean, the soil is mostly probably volcanic ash because there's so many volcanoes, so it's good to grow stuff in. and they were so good at diverting water that they could start to create civilizations in the driest place on earth

before they started climbing up higher into the mountain. Kind of going to what they advanced to and everything like that. So their use of like aqueducts and canals and stuff like that was already there from the get-go. Yeah, it was something that there's a lot of things that happen for the Inca that they took from these few different tribes before them. The machet were before them. they took a lot of their ideas for building canals, diverting water, sending it to different parts. The NASCA people were probably some of the craziest people ever. Have you ever seen the NASCAR lines?

Did you ever... Are they the lines that are like... I want to say I have seen them? Are they carved into the side of the mountain or are they like from the top down in the mountain? From the top down onto the desert floor. They would scrape through until they would get to the lighter dirt down below. and instead of making like a six foot tall stick figure these Nazca lines are ginormous

they're huge pictures like to the point to where you would have to climb a mountain look and see what you're doing then run back down and tell them where to make the next one it's a huge elaborate like terracing system but like on a massive scale into the side of the mountain these are just flat on the ground these they drew them did they think there was a reason that they what they were using them for like There's so many different people have tried to blame it on aliens, which obviously that's the first thing that you think. When I think that these people are doing this

and they're making these giant elaborate pictures, it seems like aliens. But they were... If there was no reason to make those, like no survivability reason for like agriculture or anything like that, there would be no reason. So thinking aliens might not be crazy. Yeah, I guess that's true.

But from things that I saw, they were making them as almost like astrological. maps on the ground and then some of them are just designs like there's a million of them not a million of them but there's a lot of them that are like runways there's a lot of them that are straight through and they're just ginormous you'd have to get on top of a mountain to be able to see what you're doing oh yeah like everyone stop working i need to go see if anyone's screwed up all right everyone's shift away another foot i'll go back up to the mountain let you know it's good so at what point do the Inkins come in?

Because essentially the Inkins, I didn't actually get to the number earlier. So the Inkins being like the smaller group in the empire. So the actual like Inkins were like 15,000 to 40,000 out of the population of 10 million that was in this empire. Yeah, there were some estimates that there were 12 million people that were all encompassed there. So the early stages, they,

they were small in number. They kind of started to rise around 1,200 AD, so they hadn't made it to the empire yet, but they're kind of starting to build their area. They're kind of starting to feel it out. They're working in the Andes Mountains, coming up with all sorts of different techniques, different things to farm,

and they're basically, like, there's a group of them, a village at that point, that are creating what would come to be the Inca Empire where everybody would fall to the knee and be a part of the area. So, like we started out talking about, the story of their gods and the story of how it all came about is fucking incredible. You have a god named Viracocha, which is super fun to say. He's the god of storms. He's the one that they believe is the creator of the universe.

and his wife was Mamma Kocha who was the goddess of the sea she created the stars she created everything that you could see when you looked up the sky and their first attempt they created people at a stone I don't know if they thought that it was abundant

this is obviously a story but the stone people were assholes they were very disrespectful as soon as they were given life however they did it they pushed back against the gods they felt that they were their own people at that point just had no respect.

So Viracocha killed them. Sent a big flood, sent it down out of the mountains, completely washed them all the way and killed them. And their second go-around, they decided that they wanted to create gods and goddesses down on the earth. They had three children, and this is where the sun comes in.

Their first one was Inti, which is the sun god. and the crazy thing about all these, we're going to say crazy a lot, just because this blows my mind, but they would look at precious metals like golds and silvers and things like that, and they would hold them in very high acclaim,

obviously probably because they're shiny and they don't look like anything else. They can be polished, they can be shaped, and they're malleable. But where did you find gold and silver back then? Was it just like laying on the ground? Did you just walk up and there's just like a chunk of gold that's sitting on the ground?

Well, I mean, I guess in those regions, maybe that's also why it was such high value. It is like, you know, diamonds now, it's supposed to be the rarity of them. Yeah. I would think during a lot of these projects, you know, they're obviously, if they're this advanced during the height of the empire with stone, then they've been working with stone for a long time. That means they've been digging it out. That means they've been creating, like you were saying, canals and aqueducts. Yeah, okay. So you're also correct.

And then at some point, you're going to run upon gold and silver. Exploration. Correct. I seriously doubt it was intentional to be like, let's just try to look in the ground for shiny shit. I think it was just along the lines of like when they were advancing their technology whatnot. That makes more sense to me.

So Inti was their son god. He protected men and he is somebody where they're, they just see gold, they see the rays of light that's coming down from the sun is gold. There was Mama Kea, who was the goddess of the moon. so she was kind of built in her mother's image of being the creator of the stars. She protected women. She was synonymous with silver.

And then the third was Pachamama, who was the goddess of the earth. And supposedly, Enti and Mama Kea created two children, Mako Kappa and Mama Oso. They supposedly came out of the lake Titicaca, off of an island of Lake Titicaca, which awesome name. I don't know how they came up with that either, but that probably translates funny into any language that you can get to. Just hilarious. And the story of the creation goes that they borrowed a gold staff from the sun god from Inti,

and they were to walk around on different parts of land, they would stab the gold rod into the ground, and if it stood by itself, it was okay. If they stabbed it into the ground and it fell over, they needed to move on to somewhere else because it wasn't going to be good land to build. Gotcha. Finally one day, they run into an area in the Kusko Valley and Mancho Kopok sticks it down into the ground, six straight all the way into the ground.

So at that point they knew that they had found their land. They found where they needed to be. That was where they were going to set down routes. And they were going to start building things up. So they go through, build their village. It's thriving. It's getting bigger and bigger and bigger. The second people were made out of, I believe it was clay,

spread far and wide around the village. So did the three children gods, did they create the people out of clay? That's where it kind of didn't make a lot of sense. They had to populated them. I was going to say, I'm not going to go ahead and think that there's a lot of like, this stuff surviving by itself is amazing.

it's going to have, obviously it's going to have... Well, and the fact that they had no written language, you can't write anything down. That's the other thing, too. The fact that they had no written language to get anything down. Records or numbers, the things they used to kept numbers on, the little knots. Yeah, it was a knot tying.

How do you... I don't know, man. You had to have the guys that could... It was the quipe, and the quipe was what the thing was called. Kipe, Kuipe. And then you had like the Kipe Seocha or something like that. I thought I'd written that down. The Kipe Master.

But basically, yeah, it was a... sect of people. It's an accountant. It was basically someone who was learned, learned in reading these knots on string that would be different denominations. How many knots did they know how to tie back then where they could figure out how to... I think it was something to do from what I read. It was the placement in size of the knots.

So like you would have like if the knot was tied three times, maybe that was their denotion of three. And then if it went down a few spots and was a smaller knot, it was a smaller, and you could put numbers together. I have no clue. I can't even figure it out. But that's kind of what they were thinking

is that it's a length with different size knots of different intervals. Maybe that's where we got anal beads from. Can you imagine? That was where they kept their ledger. It was in their ass and they would just pull it out and be like, yeah, Steveo's three shillings today? Yeah.

Can you just imagine like you get somewhere and you pull out just a bundle of strings out of you And you're like, I got changing here. Hang on. Let me dig through and see if I have any bills. And that's the most professional guy. Yes. It's so crazy.

So where does the brother or the sister and the cave thing come in? So this is like the South American version of Noah's Ark. There are two, and this is, it just there's so much of it that's so weird. I don't think that these two people were anybody that were anything special, but there were two shepherds, and they had two llamas that started speaking to them. And the two llamas that started speaking to them were Manchokapak and Mama Oso, who were speaking to them as llamas saying, hey, we're trying to cleanse the wicked of the earth again. You need to listen to us.

You need to take your family up into the mountains. and if you're all cooled and you get away, you take all your animals, you take your children, everything up into the mountains. We're going to flood this whole Kusko Valley again. Once the flood's done, you guys can come out of the mountain. You can come out of the cave. Everything will be good, and this will all be yours again to repopulate.

You are the two people that listen to us. If you listen to us, you'll prove that there's good. Once this flood happens, you're good to go, and we won't do it again. So basically the South American Noah's Ark without the animals without all the less believable stuff of Noah's Ark. So they just told two people? Mm-hmm.

And they took their family, which back then, I don't know what family structure looked like. But again, leading into more brothers and sisters banging and all sorts of crazy stuff. But that was their story. Once the flood came through, they came out of the caves that were in the Andes Mountains. They realized that everything was good. They went right back down. and that's kind of the origin story of where Cusgo came from because it was that first town that they had built right by Tidicaca.

Okay. Oh, that was, I love that. It's so cool to hear religious stories that, I mean, I feel like these sound better than traditional, like Christian religious stories. The names are better? I just want to know, and this is kind of my thing with any religion, I just want to know who started it.

Like, was it one guy that was just like he had that, little thing in his brain where that extra little neuron that was firing that was just like I can make up this story around the campfire let's see if people can believe it or if they believe me and then this story gets bigger and bigger and he adds more to it and everything or if you're the oldest guy in the tribe and everybody's asking you questions and you just get tired of saying I don't know so you just start making something up just to just to satisfy the people yeah you've always been the oldest person so they come to you and you just developed this story of people asking you

like people asking you like oh what are those glowing things in the sky and they're like those are the eyeballs of our gods watching us and everyone just around he's just like whoa see those up there we had this lady

her name was mama cocha that's right she took care of us she created those stars to look down on us yeah it's religious stories getting handed down and handed down and this is something that we'll see in the takeover of the different areas

because they knew that these tribes were going to hold some resentment towards them going through and ruining their religious beliefs and doing that kind of thing. And when they would come in and they would take over a tribe, one of the things that they would always make sure to do

would be to pluck a figure, somebody that they believed was a god from their religion, and then bring them into the story of the Incan belief system as a different player. So there's always going to be something from these other tribes and villages that they conquer that these people can look to

and say yeah that was ours this story has to make some sort of sense i was going to say that's that's a genius way to do instead just being like nope your guy's out he wasn't real our guys are in and having this religious rebellion on your hands at some point or like you know uprising due to this you're now basically having you're making it more palatable yeah and saying like oh oh so our guy's still there, we just maybe didn't understand what role he was in what capacity. Your story may not be wrong. It's just your story has more details. You guys only have certain parts of it. You guys aren't getting the full picture. So their first great ruler that they had was a guy named Pachucati and he was a very young guy

when he took over and he actually wasn't supposed to be the next ruler, the next guy. His older brother was supposed to be the next man up. And Patrick Cudy was born somewhere around 14, 18. It's all kind of up to a passing down of numbers that weren't ever written down. So they were living in Kusko, and another tribe called the Chunkah came in and invented Kusko. His father and his older brother that was the heir to the throne both took off. They weren't going to stick around to see what. happened. They didn't want to be a part of it. They didn't want to lose their lives.

Patrick Couty was the man that decided to step up and lead. And he got up on the side of their wall and started screaming, gathering everybody behind him. Supposedly, there were earthquakes that had happened around the time because he had said that the earth was helping them fight off the chanka as they came in to invade. And after a long night, Great Battle, Pachikudy and the Inca people are victorious. Can you imagine being that guy and being like, okay, we're about to die and him walking up there and just being like, I, not having any other options, you're just saying crazy shit to try to scare the other people off. Yeah. Oh, bring earthquakes.

And if that is true or something. And that happened at that time in him just being like, oh my God. maybe this is my spot maybe i am i'm right for it well the other thing too is they used to have this and i don't know if i imagine it would have been during this time frame that they're like tactics and everything like that but the incans had this tactic of it was like an ambush tactic that they would go ahead and trap or kind of draw like enemies into a valley and then they would roll rocks down on it just start rolling stones down the top of them so i'm wondering if also because you get a bunch of stuff rolling down the hills and everything like that

ground starts to shake and everything. It could have been. I mean, it could have triggered something. There could have been that much shifting going on that it could have shaken it up. So he's born, and this happens, so about what they consider 20 years later, by the time he's 20,

he's established what we recognize today as the Incan Empire. He was the man. He stepped up over his brother and showed his dad that he was the one that needed to be the heir to the throne, which is good. Okay, so they came back.

The brother and the father, okay. They came back to see the destruction, see what stood left of their town. They probably came back to be like, why is this place not on fire? Yeah. Like, we don't see smoke, like what's going on. Patrick Cuddy walked up until he was like, oh, I got it, don't worry about it. I took care of it. I know that you guys ran.

You guys are kind of scared. Just looks at his brother and it's like, bitch. Yeah, Dad, you and the pussy ran up into the mountains, and I just went ahead and took care of this. It wasn't even that bad. They weren't as tough as you guys. not there to be. That was basically his road into the door. He had learned a lot. He'd been taught a lot. He obviously coming from the royal family and being the ruler's son, he was given the best of everything and soaked up everything that he could. And he was really the reason that they started spreading out.

Like we said, when they would conquer a village that was close, they would build a road to it. They would set up a storehouse. They would use messengers that were staying in these. little villages that would run the length of the roads to get messages back and forth. Yes. And they would go very long distances in a day. And they would hand them off to different ones, different runners. That's how they would have the storehouses because then you could get to a certain point. You were too tired to keep going on.

Get this one to the next stop. And then, yeah. There was food. There was refuge. There was water. There was everything that they had needed. And the systems that they built in these villages were, they were pretty solid. I mean, there was leadership that would always be in the villages,

and it was basically like a small government at that point where there were higher-ups, there were people that would lead down. There were other people that would be like... Oh, yeah, they definitely established central government and then also had people reporting to them from the local level. And a lot of spies. I don't know why everything that we go into besides the EMU War had these spies that were always listening to people,

but there were spies everywhere in the world, which I guess there probably still are they're just better at it I was gonna say if you look at every successful like not royal family you could even say royal family but like royal line

they were probably the best ones of deception that's fine and that's how they got to that position yeah so they would take these villages over they would take these small little tribes over and they would bring them into the point to where when it would come time to pay taxes they would do census

back in the day to go ahead and count all the heads to make sure that's how they kept probably a fairly accurate number on what their population was and out of these senses these different tribes that were in these different areas instead of they didn't have denominations of money they didn't have anything like that so if it was a tribe that was closer down to the Amazon side which they didn't fuck with the Amazon they they had a few bad run-ins and it was someplace that they loved but it was somewhere that they could never go because they could never figure it out. Yeah.

So the places that were down lower that would have tropical birds, they would pay their taxes and feathers. That's right. There were certain different villages that were diving for special shells and things like that. That's how they would pay theirs. And everybody kind of had their special taxation that they would pay towards the royal family in Cusco, the royal city.

And that would be how they would do it. So there was no denominational, no money, no anything like that. They would send people into houses randomly to make sure that these people didn't have more than 10 animals. That they didn't have any gold or silver inside their house because any of that was supposed to be given to the gods so they could build these temples and build these big worship centers. And it doesn't sound like it was good because there were those people. But at the same time, they kind of had a nice system because when you would get married, however, they decided married back in the day, you were given a piece of land, you were given two

llamas, I think is what it was, and you were given the land to grow things on, and they didn't have harvesters or anything like that. So these llamas who could carry a shit ton and work all day long would be their only source of like pulling a weird plow besides just digging into the ground with your hand and plant these seeds. So these seeds and everything that they were given. and they would grow, and any food that they didn't consume themselves would be given back to the towns to fill the storehouses and to be freeze-dried. Well, another crazy thing that I don't think we mentioned was

this is, you know, this is pretty high up in the Andes. Yeah. This is at altitude, so. Coca-leaves. Yeah. All sorts of fun stuff. They just, they were really hardy people to be able to survive up there, just in general.

Yeah, the lack of oxygen in their blood, I mean, if you put them at sea level to run around, they can run for days because they had so much oxygen, so much abundance to them. Plus, when you're up that high, you're always dealing with cold, you're always in the elements, so you have to make sure that you have good clothing that you can wear. Well, isn't that how they figured out freeze drying too? Yeah. Because of the... They took them high enough up in the mountains where all the moisture inside the vegetables. But it was potatoes.

They were really good at freeze drying. Yeah, which... How do you figure that out? It took people here a long as time to figure that out. You're taking the potatoes up there and they freeze and then after they're frozen, you figure out, oh, these aren't molding. Yeah. But then they were also keeping them these storehouses that were not at freezing temperature. So they were able to go ahead and freeze them and know how long enough to freeze them to where the moisture eventually or how to store them to work, got the moisture out.

So that in itself was... Well, they were building storehouses with ventilation in it, which most of them are that's true. So there will be air flow that comes in and out. But to build ventilation in a stone dwelling to make sure that you can keep this stuff fresh, that's brilliant. That's beyond their years. And this might be a good time to talk about Patrick Couty's special getaway. This might be the time that we get into Machu Picchu and how cool it was because that was one of the systems. They developed as terrorist farming being in the mountains for so long that they had different levels to where they knew that they could,

They knew that they could grow different things. Yes. So they just had all these different terraces up there. And the way that they built them was brilliant, too, because they would put stones on the outside to catch the sun to heat the soil. And they built the perfect filtration system. They put heavy rocks down, then they put gravel down, then they put sand down, then they brought up topsoil to lay it all out.

That's the big thing is they're, so the terraces, it was 600 plus terraces designed to keep this city. from falling down the mountain. Yeah. So like you said, they developed this terrorist system and constructed it for drainage as well. After they had to,

and this is on top of, it's not on the highest peak next to it, but it's within the same kind of spine of the mountain the highest peak is. So it's, I mean, it's high. It's on the top of the ridge. So you're basically having to flatten out a section on top of the ridge

and then make a terrorist system down both sides of the mountain to keep this thing from sliding down all the buildings. So like you said, They'd constructed it for drainage. And then they would go down to the river valley, because there was a river that I think they were saying was 1,600 feet down the mountain. And they would get all of the topsoil and bring it up for all of these terraces.

Because they were using the terraces to grow their food. No wheels. No wheels. Just mats to drag things all the way up this big-ass mountain, up these sharp traverses going back and forth. You know like in movies where you see like in the, early 20s like when they're digging in mines and stuff like that like the headbands with the sack that hangs off the back and they're using to climb the ladder it's got to be something like that having

these big old sacks full of soil trying to go ahead and claw up this mountain just to dump it out and go back down and do it again well and the nice thing about it was somehow and again how lamas got to this point in south america i have no idea it had to have been because they're good at that elevation yeah well they're they're good at that elevation they're great at packing and the other really nice thing about them was anything that you packed on them were going to be things that were going uphill because they ate all the native species of plants on the way up so they didn't ever have to pack any feet or anything for them to get up the mountain

it's the perfect example of evolution for that specific area so they also had a half mile long water delivery system to get in here that then flowed into like several fountains in this city there was 170 plus buildings And like you were saying, it was thought to have been built as like a family home or like a summer retreat by Patchcutty. And they would bring up all these different things that they were growing and have food in water and everything up at the top of this. It's, did you see what the elevation was? The elevation of it was 7,972 feet above sea level.

So the water and everything has to be coming all the way up there. And the crazy part about the Andes is that's not even like a high peak. There's peaks in the Andes that are 22,000 feet above sea level. Some of the largest stones are, they're saying 20 plus tons here. And there is a quarry that is kind of next to Machu Picchu on the same peak. But that's still moving stones that weigh 20 plus tons on top of a mountain, the elevation, no wheels, anything like that. And then carving these 20 ton stones. to fit perfectly in with other ones.

There's a wall that they think up there was the wall of like one of the temples. You can always tell where the temples were because they were made the most attention to the town. So it showed this wall. And this thing is probably, I want to say it was probably like 30 feet long, taller than the guy that was standing next to it.

So average height if he was six foot, maybe a little shorter. This thing was maybe seven to eight. Just barely sloped. But all these, and the camera pan to show you down the side of it. Yeah. Not one of them was shifted either.

In too far or out too far. You could see the curve of the stone a little bit. Yeah, and then it showed down it. And, I mean, it looked like it had been mortared together. It's just, it's insane that not only could they do that. With no precision tools. I know. They didn't have any way to do that besides another rock,

just beating the shit out of it until it was flat. And then the simple fact that in an area that has earthquakes on top of a mountain, They designed a terrorist system and buildings that could withstand hundreds of years of earthquakes. Yeah, they're that far up. They're not immune to the earthquake. If anything, I would assume that it probably shakes harder as you get higher. Well, especially in the fact that there's all this weight at the top of this peak,

and it's only the terrorists just keeping this thing from falling down. We've got to go there. When this finally takes off and we have a million subscribers, we're going to do a show from Machu Picchu. Just be out of breath. whole time. Just be high in every sense of the word and just knock it out. Well, they said for the most part, I don't know if they're saying that this many people

lived there all the time, but they're saying the pretty consistent population was between 300 and 750 people. Well, and a lot of them were like servants and people that took care of it, caretakers of the land out there. You had a bunch of like, I think they sent like priests would go up there, like big group of priests and everything. It was probably like their retreat. Yeah, that's a scary thought.

Yeah, no kidding. So Patrick Cooney, he started building this in 1455. So they were still rolling. It was roughly like 16 years before he was getting ready to die. You see the end of it? I don't know if he did. Because they technically, I don't know if they could ever figure out when it was finished because it's still there. You can't finish construction at that point because you don't know if there's not a lot left.

I'm sure there's a date to think of. I just didn't write it down. Yeah, well, and again, how do we know? That's what blew me away out of the most of this stuff was it was passed down. Most of the information that we have is either done by archaeologist or by the people that took them over. And the people that took them over aren't going to give them any extra credit because they beat their ass. One thing I was thinking about, like, racing with archaeology, is you watch, like, how these places are discovered and everything like that. And it makes you realize how much they punch up archaeology and, like, movies and stuff like that.

because when you're like, oh man, it must have been discovered by like some adventurer that was looking for this specifically or anything like that. No, no, it was discovered by a guy his name was Hyron Bingham. He found Machu Picchu

while he was looking for another city which we'll get to that was called Bill Kabamba. Ooh, I like that. Yeah, so he was looking for that and he had heard just through stories, you know, local stories and stuff like that.

He kept hearing like one story that would lead him to another. This story would be into another and finally he ran into some people found him well yeah he ran into some people from the area and they were like

oh yeah there's some you know we've run into it was some like goat herders or something they're like yeah we've run into some ruins and he ends up discovering Montchaputure that's so cool all right pee break all right we'll be right back

plus we gotta talk about all the fun shit that they did oh yeah so at this point So Patrick Cootie, he ends up dying 1472. Yeah, 141, 1472. Okay, how many sons does he end up having? They went through a pretty long list. The two main ones, though, that come in as far as the importance of this, the kind of, we'll stick with this narrative.

Atalwapa. Well, those were hyena cap-ax kids. Oh, okay. So they had a lot of growth, their empire grew. just absolutely were cleaning house. Everybody was coming under their rule in the Andes Mountains. We had gone from Patrick Couty through another couple rulers and we ended up at... So these guys aren't lasting very long as rulers, it seems like. They're not, but back then, I mean, for him to live from 1418 to 1471, 72, that seems

like a pretty long life for that time back then. Like life expectancy, which granted, they didn't have their ultimate downfall of germs. correct but that's a pretty long life that makes sense okay well and they're living higher up in the mountains so I'm sure that that probably has something so they go through a few different rulers and we finally run into um a ruler name huayna kapok it's not going to be right it's an awesome name but I'm going to say it wrong and he is just getting back from conquering a new land that was pretty rough and as the Royal Guard was coming through back to Cusco

everybody was cheering and excited for them to come back all their faces were smudged black from ashes and they were all crying it was a bad deal well why you coppawks mother just died and so they had her ceremony they went through and got everything ready for that got that taken care of

this is another thing too we have mummies in Egypt and we have mummies in South America that's crazy practice but the fact that it's a world away and it's happening the same way I think it has been established though that like most major civilizations

did go ahead and do some type of preservation because I know that Asian cultures did that too in some of the dynasties they try to do like the terracotta soldiers they might not have used the bodies but there's always some type of like edithet or like effigy of the body or something like that so but how do you even come about that like

how do you start trying to figure out how to preserve a body trial and error well it well the other thing too is I don't know how much they're actually really preserving them if you're thinking about it they're not just sitting out and rotting you know just making it so he doesn't stink correct because I mean how much how much of the body's decay is due to like bugs and stuff like that they're able to access the body these, you know, mummies and burrows and all that, these guys are all sealed like in a tomb, within a tomb, just to keep everything out. So at that point,

Hwina Capac is the ruler at the time. They get through burying his mother, and he goes back out into war, starts really feeling sick. And at this point, before they've even met the Spanish, before the Spanish or even a blip on their radar, they're already starting to feel the influence of the Spanish because he ended up getting smallpox,

which at that time was spreading through South America. I'm sure it came down from Cortez. It did because the Spanish conquest of the Aztecs, which just so everyone knows, Inkins are South America, Aztecs are Central America, Mayans or Mexico, right? I believe so. Okay, so the Spanish conquest of the Aztex has taken place between 1519 and 1521.

and that was by Cortez. Yeah, which is going to be a great episode of itself too. But we're going to get to how all of this actually ties together even more so than that. So smallpox was introduced. It probably just, because people weren't traveling these distances or traveling between the Aztec Empire and the Incan Empire, it was very slow to work its way down. So it finally gets there, and they are fighting northernmost battles at this point up in a place called Quito, which is like Ecuador. now. Okay.

And it ends up striking him. And as he is knowing that he's getting sicker, he's getting worse, he knows that this is probably going to be the end for him. They must have caught him in the middle of a fever dream, or he just went nuts because he chose his next ruler after he died, but he chose an infant child as the next ruler of the Incan Empire. And that child only lived. a few days after he did.

So after he passed away, they had a baby ruler for a couple days. He passed away. And then word gets back to his sons, who you were talking about earlier, Uskar and Adawapa.

Atahua. And Uskar is supposed to be the next guy. He's the next in line. He was the eldest. He was the one that was supposed to take over. It didn't sit really well with Atahua. He wasn't. too pumped about getting overlooked.

He was a guy that fought in a lot of battles. He was a leader in a lot of different wars that they had with different tribes, and he felt like he needed to be the guy. They battle back and forth, and the time that Atawapa and Huscar are going back and forth, fighting for the empire, they've separated it into basically a north and the south. Adawapa took Kito as the crown city of his empire,

saying that this is where we need to move to, this is where the new area is, this is what's going to happen. Ouscar is still hanging out in Kusko. He's still saying this is where we need to be, this is where all of our gold is, this is where everything is happening. And they're going to war back and forth, splitting an empire of 12 million people

to try to get sides, to try to take over and be the one ruler of these people again, which I imagine had they had the time to do it, it probably would have become one empire again. but unfortunately as they're dealing with that one empire under one of them they would eventually like battled it out until there was one okay yeah there would have been a single ruler at that point

but unfortunately we get the intervention of the Spanish and the Spanish just fuck this situation six ways to Sunday okay so since the Spanish Vardiq or conquered the Aztecs at this point they at this point the southernmost Spanish outpost is in Panama So right at the break of North America and South America. Correct. So Francisco Pizarro, what's the name of the poor? I forgot. I can't remember what it was called.

So anyway, Francisco Pizarro comes in here. He's heard from Cortez, who actually is his cousin, who just ended up conquering the Aztecs. He hears about all this going on. He ends up coming to Panama, and he sets out on a lot. He sets out on a, an expedition south of Panama to go into South America. So everything that really the Spanish have been doing at this point has all been north of Panama. Panama's like the southernmost place they have for an outpost. From what I can determine. Yeah.

So he ends up going south with a group of people and he reaches Inca Territory in like 1526. He's just the most unlucky asshole too. He had some of the worst excursions. Oh, yeah. losing guys to mosquitoes and scurvy and having them go nuts on them and just quit and go back to where they came from. He was not a good leader. Well, that's one of the things that mean you kind of talked about was the thing that ended up being these civilizations wasn't...

It was illness. Yeah. It was, you know, 99% illness and then maybe a battle that they wiped out a leader or something like that. They said that when all was said and done, it's estimated between 65 to 90%... of the Inca were killed by smallpox. Yeah. So it wasn't like they were going through and just exterminating millions upon millions of people. No, yeah.

It was the disease that they brought with them. And the other thing, too, is that we kind of talked about how this never had an impact on any of these, like, European nations or anything like that. And it was just simply because these guys didn't bring it back with them. They died. They had their own deals. They had the black plague and the certain things that came over there. But they weren't going to get hit with South American illnesses because any of those illnesses, it was like on a good sale, it was six weeks to get from Panama to Spain. That's so long.

And that's six weeks. If you caught something that was going to kill you or was going to be like a big illness where you were from, it would have killed you within that time frame. Because that's not only you getting on your boat. That's you traveling back to Port for however many weeks. It would just kill you instead. So that's why those countries never had to worry about anything. That, and I'm sure if you had a sharp cough on the boat, you were probably sharp food at that point. You were pitched over for that. Yeah.

Yeah, they were on the lookout for that. Not good. So he reaches Zincid territory, has some type of contact with him. He leaves. Well, the port that he hit at when he first showed up, he had 16 guys that were with him. That was everybody that was left following. It was 16 guys. they pull into this port city and it was called Tombes

he landed there in 1528 beautiful absolutely gorgeous little port city there was tons of great buildings everything looked good they were brought in to kind of like a not like a bar

but like a meeting place they were given food they were given drinks they were being explained to because at that point they didn't have any sort of communication there was a language barrier you're there. But there was a little bit to where they could kind of be like,

oh, this is yours, this is the big place, all that kind of stuff. And as they were leaving, the Inca people gave them two children to take with them to come back. So that became their way of kind of bridging the gap. It would be they would take them back. They would teach them Spanish. There would be a way of communication. He ended up using them as translators. So he does another expedition in 1520.

29 has contact with the Incan and then leaves again, goes back to Panama. Then he goes to Spain because he has to ask for the crown's approval to conquer the region. So he has to be like, hey, I'll go do this for you. I just need your blessing to do it. So they were at this point, the Spanish crown had just got all the gold and all that stuff back from the Aztecs from Cortez. So they were like another civilization, like the last one. Okay, yeah, take it over. Send us all to gold.

Not to mention, hadn't they just taken over, like, the last Islamic fort in Spain, too? So they had taken over. It read that not only had they had the conquering of the Aztecs, but there was still one Muslim fort, one Muslim stronghold that they had finally taken over. And so basically all of Spain was theirs. Yeah.

So he ends up getting permission. He returns back and he returns to at this point, Peru. Is Peru on the Pacific side? Yeah. Okay. So Magellan's sailing around the bottom of South America in 1519, I think it was. Yep. So at this point, it's a known route to go around there.

So they're able to land in Peru. And basically landing at the perfect time when you have the Incan War, session between Adal-Walpe and Huskar, and then you have European diseases. So the European diseases, these were the ones that just started with the Aztecs and then probably wouldn't be surprising if during the several meetings that his group had with the Inkins, it's spread at that point. So in this time frame that he's gone asking for approval from the Crown, the European diseases just have decimated a ton of people in the Incan Empire. Just bodies piling up in the streets

because there were so many people that were sick, they couldn't even get them buried. It's absolutely disgusting. So he ends up arriving, and I think it was at this port that you were talking about, he ends up arriving back at this port, and it's deserted. Yep. Completely torn apart, beaten all the hell. And the people that were there were happy to see him,

but obviously it wasn't the same greeting as last time because they've gone through basically a civil war and it's just torn everything up. And at this point, it seems like Adiompe had... Yeah, Adiwampa had captured Huscar at that point. And he had heard word that there were these Spanish people

that had come to the port before, but they weren't really on his radar. He just kind of assumed that it was a few people, somebody that they could take over, they could bring under their rule, maybe learn some things from them. The people that were in the cities considered, or that were in Tune Base,

considered these people like gods, because they'd never seen them before. They had a completely different skin complexion. They talked different. They were all wearing suits of armor, which at that time wasn't a thing. The timing of this, it's so, like, coincidental

because the time frame that he captures Huscar, to the time that he has his contact with Pizarro. Yeah. it's so tightly knit together that all of this stuff that happens here that we're going to talk about is very like condensed in a small period of time basically it was traveling time yes so pizarro sets out with 110 foot soldiers 67 of them are cavalry no no sorry this is the total number so add these together 110 foot soldiers 67 cavalry three what were considered like muskets at the time three of them and two cannons. And at this point,

so South American civilizations were not, like horses are not indigenous there. So they'd never seen horses. So even as similar as they are, which they're not to alpacas, it's four legs and everything like that. The llamas and alpacas and that was it. So these horses are foreign.

So these things are like, both scary and amazing to them. Yeah. They've never seen men wearing armor. At this point, from a technological standpoint, for weapons, they're using wooden spears. They're using some animal furs and some metals, but they're softer metals as armor. Bronze, silver, different things that don't reflect.

And that's not a lot. Or deflect. I'm guessing they didn't have a ton of those. That was just maybe some of their soldiers. Well, and anything silver and gold is being used on statues and buildings and things like that. They end up coming to a place, and I'm trying to remember what the name of the town was. Oh, it is Karjamara?

Karja Marca? Yeah, it's further up into the mountains and basically the people in Tombay sent word to Atalapa that these Spanish people

wanted to meet him. They wanted to pay their respects to him and says like, sure, send them here, you guys guide them up the mountains, you help them get up the mountains. It was 350 miles. Yeah. And I think at that point

they had had wheels. So probably the Inkins were like, holy shit, you guys made round things? You would have to have it for your supply chain. Yeah. You would have to have it for your cannons. So they brought them wheels probably. Yes, but like... Even at that point, they didn't know.

Some of the descriptions of like the roads that the Inkins made, like they would make like stone bridges, like over waterways. Stone bridges, wood bridges. Correct. And so think of just like... Think of how it made the Spanish conquest that much faster with these already, like, established roads. They had to come in there and just been like, wait, are these people serious? Like, we can just use all these? You got these things like five years ago.

I know. Really worn in. So he ends up meeting at Alapah who has, I think he brings 60,000 soldiers with him. Yeah, they were parked outside of the city. Correct. In camps. Probably wasn't enough room and everything like that. It was a smaller royal court.

that he brought to meet Pizarro. Pizarro comes in, they meet in this Karja Marca, and they meet in like the city square. And upon their first meeting, everything, Pizarro's like, we want to meet your leader. Atalpa ends up showing up with his royal guard and like his court and everything like that.

And Pazaro is basically like, hey, we're here to fight with you, just to fight for you. judges his allegiance, she sucks his dick. Yep. And all at Ovalpa here is thinking is like, okay, I can use these guys because, even though I've just captured my brother,

he's got this whole area that's loyal to him. I'm going to have these guys fighting on my side and everything like that. So they make a plan the next night that they're going to go ahead and get together, probably have a feast in honor of their new partnership and everything and kind of discuss. during the day, or I don't know if it was during the day or night.

So Pizarro ends up setting up his cavalry in buildings on each side of the square, inside the buildings. He has some position, I think the cannons on top of one of the buildings, and then I'm not sure where he positions the three guys with the guns, which are good for about one shot every, I'm guessing, what, 30 seconds, depending on how good be... How fast you're loading your musket. Because I don't even know what musket technology is at this point.

It could be a minute to two minutes to load this. I don't know. Well, and even at that point, the firing is one thing, but the magic that they just showed by firing one is... The sound alone, when it sounds like thunder, would... And that's the biggest thing. That's the reason why. So Adewalpa comes in, doesn't bring a huge contingent of his soldiers with him,

comes in, and as soon as all of his guys are in there, they spring the trap, they basically sling. slaughter mall. Everybody comes out of the buildings. They surround them. They start firing cannons. Yep. And then in the kind of ensuing melee and everything, they're able to go ahead and grab

Adalpa, which looking at it, that's, you know, you're numbered 60,000 to 100, like 180. Or you said 110? It's 177. So it's right at. So, and that's not to say how many of those guys died on the 350 miles. Yeah. Which there was probably. A couple of them that just said leave me.

So they end up capturing out of Walpa, take some prisoner. That basically ensures that they don't have to deal with these 60,000 other. Well, so much of the cannon fire and everything from the actual square where it was going on pushed so many people trying to run away from the noise and the melee and the chaos that they were trampling other soldiers that were coming forward. So it kind of gave them a buffer zone where the 60,000 were still staying outside of town because they couldn't pack everybody in the square. Can you even imagine that if like,

you've literally just met these people? You're already amazed by what they have. You know, their clothes are nice and their armor shiny. They have horses. You're just looking at this stuff. And then you charge in and the next thing you know, there's like fire and these noises. The first thing they're going to think,

I think they said that like the first like group running in They were, you know, going to go try to help the initial group with that of Walpe. Yeah. Like you said, they just turned and ran. Yeah, they, you couldn't do anything else. No. The cavalry was just right in between them, cutting them down. They couldn't, you know, fight horses or anything like that. They basically had, their tools were wooden spears, and I think they had some ropes

because they were hoping to, like, capture some horses or something like that. Slingshots that were fairly. They were bolos or something like that. Just nothing that compares to guys with sore. with guns and with cannons on horseback, so you're going to be moving faster than anybody can to get away. So they end up capturing Atalpe, and during this time he and Pizarro were kind of talking,

and Atalpe is basically in a situation where he knows he's a prisoner, but he's trying to go ahead and basically negotiate his way out of it, and this is where you get to the, I'll fill this room full of gold, and then what does he say two rooms the same size with silver? It's something along those lines. I think it's two rooms of gold and then another room of silver. But the main thing is, I need to tell my messengers to take this message to these towns

so they can start bringing the gold in. So he sends one of the messengers to tell the group that's traveling with his brother taking him back to his capital, to add a Walpe's capital for imprisonment, he tells them, kill him. Yeah, we can't have him. Nope, because if something happens to add a Walpe,

guess what? They're without a ruler, but by making him the sole heir, he's hoping that he can almost unite the whole empire. Well, and he's thinking that if he can send enough messengers out and get enough people coming into the town, that they can kill these Spanish guys, and they can get out Scott free,

and that he goes back to being the man. Right. at the very worst, they end up collecting enough gold and these guys actually make good on the promise and let him go. I'm sure he probably thought, they put me in a cage, they have all these magic things, we just have to fight our way out. Correct.

He started becoming buddies with them. They would let him out of the cage. They would play games with them. They would drink with him. And he was trying to endear himself to him to the point to where they would just say, hey, you know, you're a decent guy. If we do get this gold and we do get this silver

and we get all these jewels and everything, we'll let you go. and in the meantime they're hearing things from the other side the people that are anti-Aidawa-a saying this guy's a cheat he's going to try to kill you he's going to try to pull something over on you so he can get back to power so they're getting messages back and forth and there was something that was said to one of the Spanish soldiers it was basically like hey if this if you find this, this is true, he's not a good guy, you

can't trust him, and they end up believing the other side. So, they tell Adwape, you got two options. You either get baptized into our religion, and you take our God,

or we burn you at the stake. So, of course, he does the right thing and says, yeah, you know, let me live, this will be cool? I can bow down to your god. Sure, I'll renounce my god. Whatever it is, just as long as I get to live. No shit.

So he says, yeah, I'm cool. Bows down, bends at the knee, gets baptized, becomes a member of their religion. It was Catholicism, right? I believe so. Spain? That would make sense. Yeah, it should

be. And the nice people that Pizarro had led, said, okay, that's cool. we're not going to burn you at the stake we're just going to tie you up and strangle you and cut you up so he was never going to get out of that one alive

he didn't have a choice at that point so Pizarro ends up killing him I'm trying to think is that the end of that that family line they after they killed Ati they start to install basically puppet leaders and puppet rulers and there were

part of the people that just said fuck this we're out of here and ended up taking off to a completely different town that was deep into the jungle someplace where they thought that they weren't going to get caught and I believe didn't you say it was called Viacomba Viacomba Vycum so yeah so that was like the last Incan refuge and basically

so there was actually one or multiple like Royal like it was an actual like Royal Incan that's who was able to go ahead and like found this city so that's how he was able to go ahead and kind of keep the ink and empire together this was like their last refuge they launched like a guerrilla war against the spanish um but eventually the spaniards did go ahead and find it it was 1572 which then they executed the last royal inkin so that essentially brought the ink and empire to a close

and the time between the 40 years or so they're installing these puppet leaders that are leading the saying, hey, this is what we need to do now. We need to strip these temples down. We need to take all this gold. We need to get it back here. Pizarro is pocketing a fairly decent amount of them. They said he only sent back like 20%. Yeah, which they told him that he could keep some for himself, but not 20%.

He was, apparently he made like a lot of his, because obviously he didn't have many guys with him when they went in. And I'm guessing not all these guys made it back when he went, you know, and took out at a wall pay. And I'm also sure, though, that the Spanish probably reinforced him with something at some point. He didn't take on the whole empire during his whole. Not to mention, you have guys that are skimming off the top that are leaving, that are going to kind of go back to Panama. Oh, he was making these guys rich. He said that, like, there were people that were just taking all this treasure and going back to Spain. And these were, the big thing I think that there's kind of a misconception on is a lot of these guys that are going across the ocean, you know, this is dangerous, dangerous shit.

They're bad people. They're not, yeah. These aren't like royal family members going on like vacation or anything like that. These are people that do not have like a future where they're at. They're like living on the streets. A lot of them were running away from crimes. Yeah, they're criminals. This is how they're serving their jail terms.

So you're getting then these people with a lot of money. A lot of them choosing to go ahead and stay at certain places in Central or South America because they started especially after what, Cortez did to the Aztecs, that's when you're going to go ahead and start getting more Spanish settlements in Mexico. So you can take this gold that you're being given and go live like a king for the rest of your life. You don't got to listen to shit. You don't have to listen to anybody at that point. You're the king of your own castle. You would buy a bunch of slaves and just run your own villa. I wonder how many like wealthy families in Mexico can trace their lineage back to Spanish

like keystadors that came and like were wealthy and just established their lineage probably a lot of them because from what they have from the inca that were being interviewed and talked to they kind of realized that the Spanish people were bad people on the way to meeting with atalampa because they were going into these temples and raping all these prestices and taking different wives killing people they were going through and burning up chiefs. They were letting chiefs on fire as they were going up to meet Adelompe. So there's a great chance that by the time they got there,

the people that were traveling with them, that, for lack of a better term, the Sherpas that were bringing them up the mountain, probably knew to say, hey, these aren't great people. It's kind of weird to think so, since they didn't have the written language or develop any type of documentation, how much of this information

had to have been passed on from word of mouth of actual people to live within the Incan Empire. And because it is that long ago, but while we've been doing research for this kind of stuff, you do get more of a scope of time. So in the grand scale of time, this isn't that long ago. No.

So you can imagine how this information, all it had to do was survive maybe one or two generations, and then people would be able to start writing stuff down. Historians would start to get involved. Being like, tell us about your people. So think of how much because of that, we don't know, how much stuff was lost. Like all the architectural information, how they did all this.

A ton of this is speculation. Well, you have the Spaniards that married into royal Inca families and that did get a lot of their information from these women in these royal families. This is how it used to be. This is what you took down. This is the empire that you just toppled. So there are accounts that come from actual Inca people, but a lot of it just came from Spaniards. You know, you get this situation happening like to every civilization in Mexico, Central, and South America is they're all taken out by the Spanish.

Yeah. And it's, I mean, that's why Spain, or that's why the Mexico, wow, Jesus Christ, the Spanish that spoke in Mexico is an adaptation of the Spanish that's spoken in Spain. That's why Portuguese has its routes. It's the same reason. People want to wonder why so many places do have English-speaking people. It's because the British Empire had all of these places all over the world that they had their hands in, you know.

Yeah. They had colonies in Egypt, in India, over in like the French Polynesia or whatever that area was. It's weird to think, like, just how there's all these cultures forced upon another culture. There's a reason why in England, the national food in England is... Oh, what the fuck is it? It's a... It's an on English dish, I'm guessing? Yeah, it's from India.

It's curry. Currie is the national dish of England, which that only came... Makes no sense whatsoever. Yeah, that only came from Indian settlements that they had down there, that they brought back to England. Like, holy shit, this is what flavor tastes like. This is what actual food tastes like. The other nuts thing about this, too,

kind of getting back onto the Inkins, is the fact that, like, I understand families were probably big. Yeah. Because families, you know, probably had a lot of kids due to a lot of kids dying. so like there were probably like Spanish families that had a ton of like intermixing which is why you had cousins and everything but just a simple fact that the guy that's credited with the fall of the Aztecs his cousin is the guy that's credited with the fall just and that was a huge motivator for Pizarro too was to try to one up his cousin he wanted to be better than his younger cousin getting back on all the kids thing they didn't name their children until they were three years old the inkins because of the mortality. Because they had no idea if they were going to live long enough to even deserve a name.

So they didn't get names, but they were called Wawa. Yeah. So any kid under three was called, there was a male version of it and a female. It was like, Mama Wawa. It was something like that. And then at three, if you were still alive, they're like, hey, you're still here. Guess what, bro? You earned a name.

You get a name. That's what you got for your third birthday was. You got a name. but just the I don't know the time frame of it still blows my mind just how quickly it all was established

and then how quickly it all just came crashing down and what they were just able to do during that time oh and kind of to wrap up I mean you have to think had a few of these things gone differently had smallpox not been such a big deal or had the had had

Pizarro and his boys got to Tomb Base and they just got wiped out and killed how much longer would it have taken the Spanish to get back to them to figure out that there was something down there and how much more advanced of the Inca people be to be able to thwart off

and fight those people because you kill those people, you search them for everything that you can find, you find their weapons I assume as smart as they were they could reverse engineer a lot of shit back then. They eventually part way into the rebellion right before it ended,

I want to say there was something about them, there were some Incan sympathizers, and they would teach them how to use some of the weapons. But they couldn't get their hands on enough of them to turn the tie to make a difference. It's like the Nazis with the jet. Yeah. It was produced too late and too few of them to make a difference.

But like you said, all that needs to happen best case scenario here is Pizarro goes into, is it Port Tombays or Tombays? Port. I think it's Port Tomb-Bays. Port Tomb-Bays. He needs to go ahead and display hostility, and then they need to kill him. Because if they would have just killed them and didn't know that they were hostile,

the next group could have came in and did something. Yeah. But if they had that, already had that in their heads like, oh, hey, these people are trying to conquer us. And so anytime they saw them, they immediately wanted to go and force them out and I'll let them in and make deals with them. That would have been the best thing because then, you know, what are they going to be? be thinking up in Panama when they're like, hey, have you seen Francisco Pizarro recently? And like, no, man, he went south. We haven't seen him in like a year. Well, was it a shipwreck? Did he die?

We don't know. Did everybody get wiped out in a boat? They got capsized. There's so many questions. All they'd be thinking is like, obviously it's dangerous down there. Maybe we don't go down there. Yeah. Or if they do go down there, say it's 50 years from then to keep exploring because I imagine Spain would have found them eventually. But how much further along would they have been? And not only that, they're hitting port cities and doing all this stuff, but had somebody just kept their mouth shut, they wouldn't have gone up into the mountains that far at all. Oh, no.

Because they couldn't have survived him with them. The whole thing with Atalapa, what they were saying was that when he was captured to get the gold, he wasn't having his runners go and tell people to raid his cities for gold. He was sending them all to Huascar cities, Kusko and all those southern cities, and take all their gold. So they were leading parties of Spanish to these places to help them go ahead.

Because it's not like they're just going to, if the Spanish were with them, they would be able to go ahead and win with less of a fight and be able to carry more gold back, especially with horses and wheels and everything. So basically him trying to go ahead and get all this gold

informs the Spanish of all of these settlements and civilization, like how big this thing is. So they know where to find them. Yeah. And, I mean, you follow the roads long enough. You're going to run into another village. Exactly. But when you start climbing up the mountains, how long are you going to be before you're like, fuck that.

This isn't worth it. There's no way. There's no way that they would have carried this much stuff. If someone's living up there, they don't have anything we want because they would have had to take it up there. Which is largely how much Upechu kind of stayed untouched because they didn't have a reason. to go up that eye. They'd already

found it. Well then like you said what difference would even, what difference would even of 15, 15 or 20 years made if it delayed the Spanish that long? Because at that point, Atta Wapen Wascar, one of them would have been dead. Yeah. From battle,

you would have had one ruler probably uniting the Incan Empire and you would have had one figure head. I'm not saying that they're going to go ahead to advance in like weaponry and everything like that, but you also so are able to go ahead and have these guys bringing back these weapons from the Spanish to rural cities and being like, hey, this is what these guys are using.

And they're looking at it and being like, okay, yeah, this is better than our stuff. What do we need to do to get this stuff? Well, and you're prepared. You're not going to get ambushed at that point. Correct. Because you know Brown Man Bad. You know where they're going to be coming from. You station more sold.

It's, yeah, there's so many different ways this could have gone. It was literally the opportunity, opportunity and the timing was perfect for bizarre. Well, had they continued to thrive, had they staved off the Spanish from coming over and killed the conquistadors, is that what all of South America would look like now? Is that what they have, obviously you have the Aztecs and the different civilizations that were killed up above them, but would they have continued to travel?

Would those two have run into each other? We'd had another, basically a world war, on a smaller scale? I don't know because when you look at it like how do you separate the Spanish influences from other influences in South America? So you have what do they speak in

Brazil? Portuguese, right? Portugal, part of Spain. Correct. What I'm saying is like they were taking it the continent from trying to take it from both sides. Obviously you're going to go ahead and land on the east side of the conference because that's the shortest distance but then you're having people come around

to the other side. So I think honestly with the Inca I just think they were too far behind technologically from a military standpoint that at any point even if it was within a hundred years you're also having the Spanish advance too even if the Incan are advancing

you're still getting the Spanish I mean the Incan had the number but at what point does the technology that the Spanish had just completely make that I feel like they were really close though with as fast as they moved and as fast as they evolved, if you had given them another 50 years, they might not have had like guns and rifles,

but they would have figured up metallurgy. They would have figured out how to make knives. Bows and nerves, maybe? Yeah, they would have figured out how to make hard substances that they could attack with. What do you do then? What do you do about the diseases, though? That's the only thing.

There's not a way to advance about that. There's not a way to go ahead and get enough of, especially when transportation is so slow that the travel between all of these cities was probably pretty infrequent. Yeah. For large amounts of people. So even for what, hurt immunity to go ahead and kick in to try to give these people and build them up,

you don't have the opportunity to do that short of a time. And there's people to repopulate afterwards. So that's, I mean, the Spanish did some terrible awful things and committed some really bad atrocities, but the worst thing that they did was show up because that's where small posse. Yeah, I was going to say, if you really think about, that's all, that's, that's all they had to do. They could have showed up, established like a colony,

and even if all of those people died within the first couple years, you could still come back 10 or 15 years later, and most likely the indigenous population would probably be all dead too. For the most part. It happened everywhere. North America, it happened with, it was, same thing, it was smallpox for the Native Americans. I think it was like 80 to 90% of them died from smallpox.

It's just, it's something that they were. never prepared for you. You can only prepare so much, but you can't prepare your body for something that you just have no idea about. It's just crazy that had they been had they been the first to go ahead and travel over to Europe, they would have been closer technologically

to be able to do boats, they could have brought North American diseases over. And can you imagine what that would look like if any of these civilizations would have gone, it would have been reversed and whoever conquered them, they would have visited that country first and how worried it would be to have like instead of Spanish influence in South America and everywhere like that, you have what would

have been like this Incan, Mayan, Aztec influence and you would have all these, like, think of all these like stone pyramids you'd have in like Europe and Spain and everything like that, how trippy that would be. Well, then they get down to Egypt and like, holy shit, this kind of looks like home. Yeah. It's like our home, except for it's flat and it's low, it's really hot. Our rocks are gray. You guys are tan. Yeah, and there's sand everywhere.

were just walking to each and be like those are some nice rocks look at this you get slaves yeah can you imagine can you imagine too if they were like so how like when did you guys build these these must be pretty new and they're like they're thousands of years old they're like what like yeah these things have been here for like these used to be completely smooth yeah yeah that just would have blown their minds there's I was thinking about this the other day and this is obviously like regular times compared to us but I imagine it probably would have been the same thing back

then but if you were to take like a pilgrim or like somebody that came over of the original 13 colonies and brought them to current day and shown them things you think that just would kill them you think that complete just sensory overload of everything like if you handed them an iPhone we're like oh you can look at this this will take your picture and you can send this picture out to anybody else their head would just explode. They'd just get a nosebleed and keel over. You think that it would have been the same thing? Like if they had brought

Mayan people back over into Spain and shown them all their technological advances, their minds just would have been toast. No, I don't think that's the case. It would have been like scary and like just insanely overwhelming,

but you got to think of it in situations that did actually happen. So there was probably a pretty decent amount that got taken as slaves. Once the Spanish established themselves there, I'm pretty sure that happens with every country, man, that gets taken over. Like, it's not just, they don't get to stay there.

They're sending... You think it would have been worth it for six weeks? And that's coming from the Panama. What happened in the United States? What was the journey between Africa and North America, man? I mean... They had their stops. They were stopped in Puerto Rico and Jamaica and those places.

At the same time, it was, you know, if slaves were valuable back when the United States had slavery, go back longer. You know, slavery has been, it's only gotten, I know there's still like the number of people currently in, like, in enslavement right now. Or is indentured. Inbencher is more now than I think it's ever been. But that's because of the entire population of those. Exactly. So it's percentage wise, it's less. but overall numbers more.

But, I mean, in every situation in which a country was taken over civilization and raided, there's always been slavery. It would have been so great if they would have figured out how to pack those Spanish boats with something that had diseases from South America and just step back over. Jungle fever in a barrel. And then as soon as they'd get there, just kick that shit out on the dock and be like, have fun and just fucking sail back to South America. Jump back into the water and start back stroking across the ocean.

Just kick over a barrel and just kick over a barrel. just a bunch of just a rabid freaking monkeys and like just unload a couple jaguars whatever animals they have in the amazon load that up onto a ship have a couple guys steering it and be like you guys aren't coming home but you guys are going to have fun and then as soon as they get there crash that thing in the docks and just watch those animals just scatter spread and diseases all over that's the thing because we were talking about during the emu episode or the emu war episode like about how that actually sounds like something that we would eat, like

an emu steak sounds nice. The Incan people like guinea pigs. And to me there's some sort of a line there where I think Emu's I mean, I'd eat the shit out of an emu steak. I don't know if I'm gonna eat a giddy pig. That doesn't seem like... When they explain why they did it,

it makes perfect sense. Yeah, small, easy to pack, good food supply. They bred and they ate what the Inkins didn't. It was like once they broke down like the grain and everything like that, the guinea pigs would eat all of the stuff that wasn't digestible by humans. And they multiplied so fast.

A symbiotic relationship. Yeah. Emu, I'm down with. Guinea pig, I don't think I'm eating. That's too close to a hamster, too close to a rat, just something that I don't think would be good. But they still eat them down there today. I mean, when we go down there, when we get famous doing this and we go down there, I'll probably

eat a guinea pig. I don't think I'm going to eat the whole guinea pig, but I'll be like, can you just, like, make me, like, some guinea pig and just put it in soup? Just give me the back quarters. Give me whatever you make chicken wings out of. Just give me guinea pig wings. The tiny hind legs. Yeah, that's what you want.

I think the biggest thing, like, I get out of this is I realize kind of, like, not how small the world is, but how, like, everything is, like, connected, kind of. Like, if someone were to say, you know, where do you think South America, and culture came from. The first thing you don't say is, well, it came from Spain because this, this and this. People are like, oh, well, you know, it's that, it's that Latin or not Latin. It wouldn't be that. It would just be whatever, Bolivian or it would be, you know, yeah, Chilean, Brazilian, like all that kind of stuff. You're like, but what, you know, go back for, where do you guys get all that from? Like if, you know, you ask the United States, where do you guys get our stuff from?

You're going to have to think for a second, but then you're like, well, if you really think about it, we get all of our stuff basically from Britain. Yeah, well, you look at like big cities, like Chicago, New York, something like that, there's little Italy. There's all these different, there's Chinatowns. We're just such a big melting pot because of the people that we brought over. But early America was Native American people and pilgrims. It was just two cultures that were both, one that was storied and historic that we still search out and try to learn more. about today with the Native Americans and then just kind of bland Brits that came over because

they wanted religious freedom but didn't want people to have their own religious freedom. Our culture has changed so much over the years, but when you look at a lot of the cultures in South America, they all kind of try to stay true to their roots. They all try to do things traditionally. They don't let cultures die. That's, yeah. That's one thing I think me and you kind of talked about it within the last couple weeks is that weirdly enough, like, although there is an American culture, it seems like every other

culture is just much more fascinating. Yeah. And the celebrations and the heritage and everything like that is just, and it's because everything else is older. Yeah. I mean, you know, United States is new, so there isn't that far of a culture. But our culture, like, it's not borrowed from just one. our culture has to still be kind of established

because there's so many different people of so many different cultures here that it's kind of like it's taken its time to kind of develop itself. Well and it's just become so diluted to where we have things that are from our cultures where we're from but when we have to do like a 23 and me different things like that to figure out like

where our ancestors came from there's a lot of places that don't do that. There's a lot of places that can just tell you my family descended down this line. we've been in this land for a thousand years. These are our people, and they hold those cultures a lot truer than we do because we're just two dudes that grew up in a state, and we still have family,

but the connections are not nearly strong because we didn't have to depend on them. That's the other thing, too, is like if you really, if you asked most common people, maybe they could tell you where their grandparents are from. Yeah. I think that's pretty simple to be able to go ahead and say, you know, where your grandparents are from, Like, but the other thing too is for the most part if you're like, you know, where your grandparents's from, it's either same state or a neighboring state or something like that. But then you don't get that cool aspect of being like, no, like, and I realize there's a whole list of like people, shit people have to deal with for this.

But having that, you know, be able to say like, you know, I'm first generation American. I'm second generation American and you still have that culture of, you know, where you're from. That to me just like, it seems cool after learning about this. of stuff. There's a sense of pride in the first generation or a second generation because you still want to keep your old traditions alive. And the pride isn't just about your family. The pride is about where you were from. So if your family was from Italy, you also have this pride for the whole of Italy and Italian culture. It's not just those specific cultures. Yeah, this one has been by far and away. This episode has been by far and away. My favorite one to step.

and we got a lot more to go and we got a lot more of the world to see. Oh yeah, we got a, there's still two other civilizations that are in this wheelhouse that will space them out pretty decently far apart,

but here's the thing too with the Inca is out of the Mayans, Incan's Aztecs, from a brutality standpoint, everything like that, these guys kind of seem like the Enlighten group. It was maybe them in the Mayans a little bit, but getting into the Aztecs

is when you're going to get into the brutal top of the pyramid, cutting out hearts playing games with skulls and all that kind of stuff and the Inca I mean they did have their child sacrifice they would sacrifice children

for a good crop year for gifts to the gods for gifts to the broilers and that kind of thing but they did it in a way where that wasn't like the the most known thing like the Inca did that

but then you also have all of like the architecture and all of their cultural stuff that kind of like it didn't balance it it out, but it makes you not focus so much on the sacrifice element of it. Yeah, and it's tough to look at now. We're looking at it through a 2020 lens and see what's acceptable and what is it now. It's not a justification for anything because there's still arguably bad things,

but at that point, there was no rules. I mean, they created their own belief system. If you were the more advanced civilization, it almost feels like nowadays it's the exact opposite. If you're a less advanced society civilization, you tend to almost be looked out for, I don't want to say more. But like, I feel like people are more willing to go ahead and help. Yeah. Like you get like impoverished third world countries. You get the larger countries pitching me in to go ahead and assist.

It's not like, oh, they're weak. Let's go conquer them now. So the dynamic is completely shifted to where back then it's like, oh, well, if we can conquer you, then we're meant to conquer you. Like if we have the ability to do it, then that's, you know, God wants us to do that. Whoever wins this war is supposed to have this land. Exactly. Like if you guys end up beating us, it must be because, like, God was on your side. But we've been told that our job is to come in here, make sure you guys are converted, and then also take all your shit. Yep.

Yeah, we want this land. If you can defend it, that's great, but we were told that this is our land, so we're going to do what we have to do. I saw it. I like it. I want it. Let me go ask the king and queen. They said I could take it, so all I got to do is send them back some shiny shit,

and we're all good. It's always the same thing, man. It's always money, power, women. I know. It would have been cool to see what, like you said, if this hadn't happened or if it had happened differently, what developments could have been made. It seems weird to think about that, like,

like I was saying before, like this is at the same time as like the Renaissance is happening. So there's this other section of the world that is more enlightened and is going through this advancement. A great awakening, so to speak. Yeah, exactly. And these guys are doing it too. They're just doing it in a completely different way. They're starting from basically scratch. Yeah.

They had a few people ahead of them that they did take things from, that they did learn from, that they did build upon. But other than that, they were left to their own devices. where everybody was so much closer in England and in Europe and areas around there where they can pull from different societies and learn different things, different traits. Not to mention you have the Japanese, the spice routes, the trade routes. Oh, yeah. These guys were so insulated that their development only came from them. It's not like, you know, and I'm sure that there were maybe very one-off circumstances

where maybe like a boat had to stop for repairs on the coast or somewhere. and they ran into these people. But those situations were probably so isolated that if they went back and they're like, yeah, we found a people. They're like, where was it at? They're like, shit, I don't know, man. We got lost in a storm and everything like that.

We were lucky to get home. I can't tell you where it was at. Yeah, I was drawing the map. I wasn't paying attention to how many clicks we were away. But then you get that one guy, what were they wearing? Oh, this one guy had like a gold bracelet. Oh, okay. Where do you think this was?

And you're going to have, yeah, it's just. Is there an offer? It's always about an opportunity. All right, man. Well, I like this one. I hope this is how the next episodes go where it's just, there's just a lot of information. Yeah, we didn't cover and get down to the nuts and bolts of everything.

We tried to give a good outline and sprinkling some cool stuff. And as we continue to get better and kind of learn to focus a little bit, which we're not going to do well. but we will do it. We're going to get a lot better. And hopefully this episode stands up against the Aztec episode, the Mayan episode. We're going to be going everywhere around the world. All right, guys, thanks for joining us.

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